Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

First?

Hmmmm
I will need to do some researching before I can give a comment...
But a nice topic. Wil get back on this one.

"skullduggery and malarkey"

I like 'em a lot, Marcia!

Good Morning everyone and Jason,

I can't believe I'm on top of the blog today.

In regard to Craig's post,
". . .while the Democrats appear to be talking soft while advocating the
rough stuff behind the scenes."

Nothing surprises me about the covert, skullduggery of the New Democratic party.

Hi Patsi,

I had to sneak skullduggery into my early morning post.

Has anyone told BHO? LMAO

"Nothing surprises me about the covert, skullduggery of the New Democratic party. "

The DNC is full of malarkey, Marcia....heh, heh...

Skulduggery. Necrophilia? Jack, where are you when we need you.

If anything is done against Iran it had better be covert, highly covert with no mouse trails. And, it doesn't need to be done within the borders of that sovereign state. And, it had better not be done by Pres Bush. And, it had better not harm the hair on the head of a single 'ordinary' Iranian.

Patsi,

Is malarkey Irish? I'm very Irish. My mom used to speak Gaelic to me and
my dad used to use "malarkey" all the time--he hinted that the word
had Irish roots. But, maybe my dad might have been full of malarkey sometimes.

Hmm...didn't find out if malarkey is Irish, Marcia...(sounds Irish to me ) -- but the German translation appears to be: quatsch. I kinda like it.

And, there was a military term that had the same meaning. I kind of thought malarkey was regional dialect with nonspecific roots.

Thanks Patsi and Flatus.

Back to Iran for a moment. My girl friend is married to an Iranian professor
at UC. They just came back from Iran and the Iranian people are very
worried about the prospect of another war. Most of the folks in Iran seem to really like Obama according to my friend.

Distain dont cabby no gambers, disdain......(love that old song)

Jamie......Great work.........that sounds mighty like the article I was looking for.....Im not totally giving up on the ramparts 68 but I got harpers atlantic also so that may be it.....I'll have to now go and dig out my Wampeters and Foma book......

After reading Craig's post, perhaps those Iran people who like Obama
so much should think again. I get the feeling Obama insider Democrats, privately, are saying exactly what Bush and McCain are saying regarding Iran.

I read obituaries from time to time - this one stuck out at my from yesterday's Globe- sounds like he lived quite a life

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/obituaries/articles/2008/06/29/civil_rights_trailblazer_atkins_dies_at_69/

Hmmm
My research is not giving me the absolute touch to comment on this topic...
LOL

I will sit this topic out :))

Am too focussed on Wimby.....

Patsi,
Thnx for the NYT article. Printed it out and put in my collection....

"Necrophilia? Jack, where are you when we need you."

Flatus
is there some reason for this arrangement of thoughts.
I've seen my name put together with a lot of words but this is a new one. ;-)

Coffees done, I will be back after the brain is in better working order.
Jack

Reid and Pelosi are giving and have given (impeachment is off the table, etc) much evidence to support the claim that democrats are and have been double dealing behind the scenes......it's pretty distinct and pretty gruesome, to me......I hope cindy sheehan really does run, more and more.......pelosi after all learned all her tricks from her dad and maryland politics.......just gruesome......nattering nabobs of negativism.......

nattering nabobs of negativism in public
effete corps of impudent snobs in private

?

"Pakistan claims success in battling militants"

Speaking of not understnding what our leaders are doing in our name this sentence in the above article struck my fog ridden brain. Just what all are we using mercenaries for any way.

"A paramilitary force took on militants based in the wild Khyber tribal area"

Jack

"Insideous crabs of cynism" - not sure where I read that one, but it stuck.

Article in the Dallas Morning News this weekend re: some Iranians saying things might be better if the Americans come.

a summary from

crooksandliars.com

supporting my theory that the media ditched ms clinton to clinch it for obama so that mccain would have a chance........

True love. The press has found it. Smitten by the Republican nominee, John McCain, maverick, here’s a sampling of journalists saluting McCain in their own words in recent days:

Kind of like a Martin Luther [Chris Matthews - Hardball]

A man of unshakable character, willing to stand up for his convictions [R.W. Apple, NY Times]

An affable man of zealous, unbending beliefs [Richard Cohen, The Washington Post]

The hero who still does things his own way [Richard Cohen, The Washington Post]

Rises above the pack-eloquent, as only a prisoner of war can be [David Nyhan, The Boston Globe]

The perfect candidate to deal with what challenges we face as a country. [Mika Brzezinski, MSNBC]

Blunt, unyielding, deploying his principles, what he does do is what he’s always done, play it as straight as possible. [Terry Moran, Nightline]

Wordly-wise and witty, determined to follow the facts to the exclusion of ideology. [Michael Hirsh, Newsweek]

Willing to defy his own party and forge compromise. [Michael Hirsh, Newsweek]

Pragmatic in the service of the national interest, rises to passion when he believes that America’s best values are at stake. [Michael Hirsh, Newsweek]

The maverick candidate still. [Terry Moran, Nightline]

"Distain dont cabby no gambers, disdain......(love that old song)"

Sturge, you are shameless! ROFL!

ooops

The link to the above story

As usual McClatchy
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/42642.html

Jack

whskyjack, i can't tell you how disappointed i am in nancy pelosi. i can understand that it took many years to get where she is, and i can understand not wanting to lose that, but by now it seems to me that we need the democrats who are willing to risk ending their career by standing up to bush and co., and she talks a good game, but doesn't do it.

" I get the feeling Obama insider Democrats, privately, are saying exactly what Bush and McCain are saying regarding Iran. "

I wish Hersh would have told us which Democrats are supporting this insanity.

I believe that Grover Norquist (truly one of the most reprehensible people in this universe) has a lot of people who secretly side with his "starve the beast" theory. Break America's back, then the government HAS to get rid of all "entitlements."

Sturgeone-

It would be interesting to know the context and time of the quotes you cite-

I ask because David Nyhan's stuck out at me- I thought he was a great political writer, and was saddened when he died 3 1/2 years ago (and at that time he was retired).

Kathy -- great article! This is priceless:

"Though he grew up surrounded by religion, Mr. Atkins was spiritual but not religious. He had a colorful vocabulary and a sharp wit that he employed frequently, such as when he gave the grace at Thanksgiving dinner a few years back, when "The Sixth Sense" was in theaters. Scanning the other bowed heads, he tweaked the movie's signature line, saying, "I see . . . black people."

Meanwhile, while we chase ghosts in Iran, the real live terrorists are resurgent in Pakistan while the Administration literally sits on its hands. Great piece from NYTimes today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/30/washington/30tribal.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1214827513-Ag4Y8AyF4CGEbjhCWXV9Hw

Kathy.......check the article at

crooksandliars.com

couple of articles down from the top.

"A paramilitary force took on militants based in the wild Khyber tribal area"

Jack -- I have a friend in Oklahoma who rivals Anon-Paranoid in her theories....she solidly believes that these paramilitary forces might be turned on us one of these days.

"i can't tell you how disappointed i am in nancy pelosi."
posted by Mary Kitt-Neel

My disappointment with Pelosi began with her actions toward Hillary Clinton during the primary and it has continued unabated ever since. . .

Nancy Pelosi is duplicitous.

Sturgeone- Yes I checked there first- I still see no date. Nyhan left the Globe in 2001, and many in the media or otherwise analyzed and complimented him in 99-2000 a whole lot differently than they are doing this time around.

kathy.....yes....i see.....looks like McGlaughlin was reading the list.....maybe he just mixed in Nyhan somehow to fill it out......will look further.......

Malarkey seems to be Irish in origin, but recent in creation as a word

Etymology http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3732/is_200207/ai_n9139247

Patsi
This morning I can understand your friends fear.
But The article Craig posted gives me a lot of encouragement. there are a lot of prople in government and the military who leaked a lot of the information in that article. They want the word to get out.

Jack

Jamie,

Thanks for the link! I've learned a lot about malarkey.

Marcia -- one thing this season has done is bring me back to 1963. When I started college, one of the first things I wanted to do was join a political organization. My parents were both very political, although on different sides of the fence on many issues. Mom was a FDR/JFK lover, Dad was a Republican on all things fiscal.

We argued and discussed political all the time.

But for me, the face of the Democratic party was that of any one of many Southern Governors standing on school steps with a bunch of thugs. (Mom always said Southern Dems weren't real Dems...)

But because of those Governors, I went to a meeting of the Young Republicans. It was an all-boys club, and all they were doing was jockying for position. No issues brought up at all. Not to mention, they expected me to take notes. Hello?

I left thinking "what a bunch of arrogant pricks."

So I went to a Young Democrats meeting, and it was another all-boys club. Exact same scenario.

I left thinking "what a bunch of arrogant pricks."

Of course, just a couple of months into my freshman year, JFK was assassinated and turned life upside down.

"but by now it seems to me that we need the democrats who are willing to risk ending their career "

Mary

I wouldn't hold my breath.
I think many politicians seem to be reality challenged when it comes to finding working solutions to our many problems. This includes our candidates for president

Jack

The upshot of my college rant is that I joined the rabble rousers that hung out at the Student Union and raised hell about everything. I was the only "chick in a sorority blazer" in the crowd. But nobody asked me to take notes.

I was never A Spiro Agnew fan, but boy did he get this one right:

"The American people should be made aware of the trend toward monopolization of the great public information vehicles and the concentration of more and more power over public opinion in fewer and fewer hands. "

Spiro T. Agnew

Wow. I just finished reading that long NYT piece that I linked above. It's very much worth it. A definitive, inside look at how squabbling and bickering on our side since 2002 has allowed al Qaeda to return to something close to its Sept 10, 2001 capabilities. Lots of juicy new details, like how Rummy waffled at key moments and blew opportunities to capture top Qaeda leaders, like how Bush was such a wimp in dealing with Pervo.

I have enjoyed seeing the conversation going on here this morning. After yesterday, I didn't know what to think. Good stuff.

The Obama Agenda

"Mr. Obama looks even more centrist now than he did before wrapping up the nomination. Most notably, he has outraged many progressives by supporting a wiretapping bill that, among other things, grants immunity to telecom companies for any illegal acts they may have undertaken at the Bush administration’s behest.

In any case, what about after the election? The Reagan-Clinton comparison suggests that a candidate who runs on a clear agenda is more likely to achieve fundamental change than a candidate who runs on the promise of change but isn’t too clear about what that change would involve."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/30/opinion/30krugman.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

" After yesterday, I didn't know what to think. "

Chloe -- I still contend that the stuff on this blog is nothing compared to many others. AND, the VERY meanest one I ever ventured into was a professional rose growers group.

Holy crap! Those folks can go seriously Medieval on people.

mornin' all.

I have to say that I agree with the approach Hillary laid out in the campaign - lay the groundwork diplomatically then conduct talks at the highest levels with our "enemies." If that is what Obama has in mind, he has my support. If a blockade is what the McCainiacs are thinking, give me a break. It will just divert Iran's oil to China and the rest of our trading competitors, and it wouldn't surprise me at all to see us blockaded from the summer Olympics. Act tough against Iran? PUHLEASE!!

And Craig - touch actions?? Is that some football term to indicate actions short of an all out game?? And is it 2 hand or one? Below the belt or above?

Patsi, I don't visit many other blogs, but I know you're right. Some had me a little worried yesterday, though, when they were discussing things said on "that other blog" as though it had anything to do with this one. I'll personally never read anything on the so called back channel. I like it here. Glad to see things back to normal this morning.

Europe fears Obama on Iran
European officials are increasingly concerned that Sen. Barack Obama’s campaign pledge to begin direct talks with Iran on its nuclear program without preconditions could potentially rupture U.S. relations with key European allies early in a potential Obama administration.

The U.N. Security Council has passed four resolutions demanding that Iran stop enriching uranium.....
European officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, ........although eager to welcome a U.S. president promising renewed diplomacy and multilateralism after years of tensions with the Bush administration, they feel strongly about continuing on the current path.

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/06/22/europe-fears-obama-on-iran/

Lard, see you're her now, and want to make sure you know, by other blog, I didn't mean yours. Your's is great because it's done in the right spirit. I have to learn to be more clear when I post.

Patsi,

What a great post about your college experience with joining a political party.
It brought me back to my college days and I realized that I never joined a party
until years later even though I always expected to be a Democratic like my Irish Catholic, liberal, Dem family. And I eventually did sign up as a Democrat, never
regretting my choice until this year.

ha, good one pogo. one of the failings of spell checker is that it can't always catch a typo that correctly spells a different word. gates should get to work on that instead of retiring.

"After yesterday, I didn't know what to think."

chloe,

I've seen use net groups where yesterday would have just been a friendly greeting and a lot of intellegent conversation still got done.
As I said last night. A lot of it is the basic medium we use here. Text is a poor communication medium and very limited in conveying meaning. Add in to that the fact that we want to create a friendly atmosphere so we write in a conversational style.
So is this post air head musing, overbearing lecturing, sarcastic dismissal, patronizing condensention, or many other irritating things? You mostly have to guess. If you were setting beside me you wouldn't my face , body , hands and tone would be giving you clues.

So(asjack leans back and hooks his thumbs under his suspenders), to us real net warriors, who have survived flame wars that would curl your hair, who learned to knit our asbestos underwear at our mothers knee, these minor little squabbles are mere annoyances. ;-0

Jack

I've seen use net groups where yesterday would have just been a friendly greeting and a lot of intellegent conversation still got done. Posted by: whskyjack

Jack,
I agree. I enjoyed the conversation yesterday (although we missed you).

I woke up for a while around 3or so, and saw some of the later stuff on the blog. REALLY like your late post comments on disagreements. I wanted to tell you how much I liked it, but knew you were long gone. But it's worth a read for everyone who's interested. Hope you don't mind me linking it.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/does-mccain-think-hes-already.html#comment-108939

So is this post air head musing, overbearing lecturing, sarcastic dismissal, patronizing condensention, or many other irritating things? You mostly have to guess. Whiskyjack

I almost always get in trouble when I'm laughing and say something I think is really funny (to me) and someone responds as though I'm serious. You're right. They don't see my smile. Or my 'weird' sense of humor.

ps Jack, I love the way you write.

gotta go

We did Malarkey, but here is an even more entertaining etymology for "skulduggery" from the word detective

http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/12/skulduggery/

craig, maybe Bill can work on that now that he's got a little more time on his hands.

BTW, proud dad moment - Little Pogo went to the Cleveland Cavs basketball camp last week - his second year to go. Last year as a 10 year old he won the award for best defense in the younger group (12 & under I think). This year as an 11 year old he won 4 half gallons of gatorade for winning 4 of the little competitions they had each day, and he won a cap signed by Joe Smith for being the MVP in the younger group. The kid's on fire.

Chloe...no offense taken whatsoever. "Lardo's Retreat" is definitely not a place that takes itself too seriously anyway. Hell, I'm happy with what's there already even if we don't get to add anything else. But I hope we do get more as folks read the stories that are up, and similar stories occur to them.

I've thought it was appropriate one of the cable television pioneers was Martin Malarkey

i cant believe how infantile barnicle's analysis is.....damn.....he reminds me of maureen dowd.......

"i cant believe how infantile barnicle's analysis is"

yeah once he had to stop copying from others, the quality dropped immediately

jamie, I think I like the Scottish sense of the word better. :-)

good morning gang....

"and she talks a good game, but doesn't do it."
Mary KN.... I bet if we looked up the definition of "politician" in various dictionaries we'd come across one that said.... "all talk, and no action".....

Jack.... as a long timer on various computer interactive sites (started in 1991 on AOL's bulletin boards).... you hit the nail on the head.... text is a poor communicative tool for the conversational style most use on these types of sites.....

Chloe.... I have the same problem..... in real life as well as here.... I'm a friendly teaser and joker.... can't believe how seriously some take my harmless little jokes here..... but at this point.... I consider it "their problem".....

Pogo.... congrats for lil Pogo! .... I love your stories about him....

Craig.... as for the Dems saying one thing and doing another..... and you're surprised by this.....

i think fiction writers face it all the time.....how to render the meanings with just the written dialogue.....that's one of the things Hemingway broke thru on and got really good at.......attempting to make written conversation with no qualifying explanations render the meanings behind the words.......

I used to like Barnicle when I read the Globe as my primary news source back in the mid to late 80's when I was in NH (God knows, I didn't read the Union Leader). I think becoming a personality of sorts on MSGOPTV and beginning to take his opinion as somehow tied to the truth has taken a greater toll on him than having his knuckles rapped for plagiarism did.

chloe, thanks for linking and acknowledging whiskyjack's excellent presentation on the limits and dangers of conversational blog commenting. was about to do so myself. particularly like this graph:

"One thing we all need to constantly remind ourselves is we almost all write in a conversational manner. That is a very sloppy way to communicate in text. Because when we converse we are not only using the words but the tone we use, our facial expressions and gestures all give meaning to our words. All of these are missing in text. -- Posted by: whskyjack"

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/does-mccain-think-hes-already.html#comment-108939

Thanks, Jack -- Lard Chancellor Sturgeone should consider you for high office in AHPC

IMO Barnicle disgraced himself during the 2004 campaign by caving into the swiftboat meme when he knew none of it was true. That was directly related to his job as msgop so could be his truthiness is related to his paycheck.

I never read him when he was at the height of his "blue collar" popularity. I have always found him to be a lightweight yesman who will say anything for face time.

hey......the boss slot is still open right?

Hip hip hooray.......daughter entering grad school in august.......uncrossing arthritically frozen fingers now.........

Thanks, Renee. Here's another, sort of tied in with the former one. He's had a deal for the past 4 or 5 months with Mrs. P - we have found that he's very motivated by incentives - that if he made straight As for the entire year and did something remarkable athletically, he could get an Ibanez guitar that he's been drooling over since he first saw it. He had already gone down to the state championships and did very well with his soccer team, scoring most of his team's goals, and was the best forward in the league (5 counties) by a longshot, so he was well on his way. So anyway, we get back home yesterday after picking him up from the GPs' for the Cavs' camp, and his report card was in the mailbox - all As. We're headed to the Music Center at lunch to order the new axe.

sturg, congrats on the daughter's grad school admission - your nickel or hers? :-)

pogo......axe......in the late sixties we went to a really serious music club to sit in on sit in night.....the "supercool bass player for the gig there comes over and asks, "You guys bring your own axes?" Sprite, our drummer at the time says, "No.....but I got my hatchet out in the trunk......"

the bass player's face just melted....he looked at the ground, shook his head and just walked off.........

pogo.....all of we'uns.........she's been working 2 jobs, one of which she'll ditch, and we all just make the ends line up somewhere in the same vicinity........

KC, I don't disagree with your take on Barnicle's more recent commentary - like the old grey mare, he ain't what he used to be. Of course back in the day, he was commenting on issues in a smaller pond.

congrats on the progeny progression there sturg

and yes, since Lardass abdicated the chair it is vacant, but thought we might keep it that way in honor of his brilliant work in crafting the Seven Acceptable Insults

Deep Thought
Matt Drudge has been less likely to peddle crap than MSNBC this election season.
http://www.eschatonblog.com/2008_06_29_archive.html#7385327410297520170

and only yesterday msnbc was the hero station to Obama supporters. How quickly things change.

Kathy:

Thank you for linking the obit on Mr. Atkins. Sad that he has to be gone before the majority of us get to "know" him.

Your post put me in mind of a recent encounter. I took my visiting 13-year old niece to the Birmingham Civil Rights Museum. She had studied in school about Dr. Martin Luther King, and she knew about the battles to desegregate public schools. But she was unfamiliar with the name of Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth whose bronze cast statue we passed at the museum entrance, facing Kelly Ingram Park, the site of fire-hosings and attack dogs, and the 16th Street Baptist Church. Don't worry, I said, you'll know who he is by the time we finish this tour.

Indeed. Two hours later, as we left the building, I notice a small group of people posing for pictures in front of the bronze. There was an elderly man in a wheelchair. As I glanced several times between the man's face and the etched one, I turned to a bystander and said, "That IS the Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth, isn't it?" "Yes, it is," he replied. I whispered excitedly to my niece, then asked the man who turned out to be the reverend's personal attendant, if she could take pictures. She did and, as they were finishing their own photo work and came toward us, we went up and thanked Reverend Shuttlesworth for his life's work which freed not only African Americans, but she and I as well, since no one had rights of free association under segregation. My niece now has a "personal history" for when she returns to school in Virginia. I too feel fortunate for this encounter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Shuttlesworth

Done.....

seeking open office for Jack.....let's see.....gardens, whiskey, music, conversational tone.......Im sure there's a beautiful spot for Jack.......

Lardo......the Solon of C-list............

"The kid's on fire."

Yes he is, Pogo! That's great news! Congrats to LP!

surg, lol. I have this vague memory of seeing an album cover with a guy holding a guitar that was shaped like an axe - maybe a Molly Hatchet album? - I think it was one of those anime covers drawn by the guy who drew the Bat Out of Hell cover or someone who drew that sort of stuff. Anyone else remember that, and can you ID that album? My brain says stop, I can't recall.

And the grad school dollar drain will be worth every penny I hope - I assume it's not in some useful or lucrative field of study.

"who learned to knit our asbestos underwear at our mothers knee"

Ha! Jack nails it. Two music-related things come to mind when I think about why I love straight-ahead agggression so much better than the passive kind.

1. The reason Chet Atkins loved to hear Suzy Bogguss sing was that "...she never has to slide into a note. She just lands right there."

2. When Garth Brooks first went to the UK to promote his 1993 tour there, some journalists showed up at his press conference wearing minature cowboy hats and started singing in an exaggerated hillbilly fashion. As Garth said later, "I'd have preferred they just said, 'We think you suck.'"

Ivy, what a terrific experience for your niece.

I clearly remember seeing the scenes on tv from '63 when Bull Connor turned the dogs and firehoses on the demonstratorsmin downtown Birmingham. 4 years later, his nephew started school in my high school, a year behind me. He never mentioned his uncle.

patsi......one of my myriad pet peeves.......sliding onto a note........Jerry Vale used to send me running to the earplug locker........

FOLLOW-UP on today's post:

The fateful moment (when Dems caved to Bush on Iran) came in March of last year when (quoting here from CQ's 3/14/07 report): "Democrats decided to delete language from the spending bill that would require President Bush to get congressional authorization for any war against Iran."

That was Pelosi's doing, by the way.

Sen. Jim Webb (D-VA) has introduced a bill to halt any military spending against Iran without congressional approval, but his party's leaders have shown no interest in moving it forward.

The seven wise men of Greece were well-known, both to each other and to the general public. 1 Anacharsis, who was one of these wise men, came to visit Solon in Athens. When Anacharsis saw Athenian democracy at work, he remarked that it was strange that in Athens wise men spoke and fools decided. Solon admired this man's ready wit and he entertained Anacharsis as his guest for a long time. Solon showed Anacharsis some laws that he was drafting for the Athenians. Anacharsis laughed at Solon for imagining that the dishonesty and greed of the Athenians could be restrained by written laws. Such laws, said Anacharsis, are like spiderwebs: they catch the weak and poor, but the rich can rip right through them.

Ivy -- what a wonderful story! Thanks.....

Pogo:

Crazy uncles...we all have one.

A good friend of mine owns Bull Conner's old house. There's a sweet revenge about it for her...

"Democrats decided to delete language from the spending bill that would require President Bush to get congressional authorization for any war against Iran."

Jeezus, Mary and Joseph.

Paula Gordon|
An Open Letter to Speaker Nancy Pelosi
Posted September 5, 2007
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paula-gordon/an-open-letter-to-speaker_b_63178.html

We are the short attention span citizens. The idea that we are ready to attack Iran has been bandied about so much, people have been able to poopoo the idea as so much tin foil hat theory. I think people find it hard to believe that Shrub is such an incompetent jerk and keep looking for that pony.

"PRINCETON, NJ -- The Democratic Party is in a good position to retain its majority status in Congress this November. Democrats lead the Republicans by 51% to 40% in the party preferences for Congress among all registered voters, and by 52% to 42% among likely voters."

Well....now they can just cave in on a grander scale.

According to the Associated Press, Iraq hasn't signed oil contracts and the reason, according to the oil minister, is that "they refused to offer consultancy based on fees, as they wanted a share of the oil."

Now can we can we bring the troops home.

Gallup attributes the bump for Obama to his support from Senator Clinton and the Unity,NH appearance.

Krugman from today's times

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/30/opinion/30krugman.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

We shall see, we shall see.

Haven't we been told for the past 3 or so years that AQ is who we're fighting in IRAQ?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/30/washington/30tribal.html?hp

Bushco can't even get the frickin' country right. But we knew that, didn't we?

anon, don't worry about the 4 pt. Gallup Daily spread. DG is a pretty vlatile poll and 4 pts is still within the MOE.

Oh, and if I forgot to say it, get a name.

Pogo

The Kugman column is interesting but I don't think we have to wait. We already know the answer.

It's like all those who are now saying..."no one could have predicted"...the failure in Iraq, the failure in the economy etc. Plenty of people did predict those things but not the main stream media --they would rather appear a clueless maroons.

Obama's backtracking on FISA and other issues because of political expediencey is pretty clear.
We cannot expect more from Obama then being present.

I think Nigeria just moved up on the Shrub list of countries to be invaded.

AFRICA: Nigeria's Nuclear Program
The Nigerian paper This Day reports on discussions at recent G8 meetings expressing concern over Nigeria's development of nuclear technologies.
http://www.cfr.org/about/newsletters/editorial_detail.html?id=1011

Craig - informative post. I need to check out the Hersh piece. It's a total bummer, though, that the US hasn't learned to quit the old game of regime change. What's that definition of insanity, something like: trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? : )

If there's a a sliver lining, I guess it's that the US is now so weak economically that a full ground invasion would be off the table....I hope.

Asked on CNN's Late Edition if there is any truth to Hersh's allegation that US Special Operation forces are operating within Iran, US Ambassador in Iraq Ryan Crocker answered: "I can tell you flatly that US forces are not operating across the Iraqi border into Iran, in the south or anywhere else. ... US forces are not operating across the Iran-Iraq border, no."

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/bulletin/bulletin_080630.htm

http://www.the-peoples-forum.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=1881 tanscript of the Hersh and Crocker CNN appearance

Shorter Hersh (who has been writing about US plans for Iran since at least 2005)

"Crocker may not know"

Forgot to post the money quote

"Guest host Candy Crowley brings on Iraq Ambassador Ryan Crocker to officially deny that any cross border operations have taken place, but Hersh points out that Crocker may not be in the loop–plausible deniability being the operative word.

That is simply a reality, that when you run secret operations, if you’re not telling the commander, the military commander of the Central Command, who is supposedly running the country — you may not tell the ambassador everything. Sometimes it’s better not to have the ambassador know."

Craig.... that just means that Crocker is "full of crock"......

PofU.... I hope a full ground invasion is off the table too....
but even the thought of air strikes scares the hell out of me.....
where's Scott Ritter..... we need him now....

Pogo and sturg..... A1 kids you both have there......

wish I had time to read some of the articles linked..... but I just don't.....

KGC
He may not know or he may be fudging with an evasive answer. ex. Operations originating off a ship in the gulf wouldn't be operating cross border.

Jack

"US forces "

Could this be one of those lying without actually lying situations. If they are mercenaries are they "technically" US Forces in the sense of the Army or Marines or are they just hired hands?

Here is an article by Professor Debra J. Dickerson. She is a BHO supporters, but she doesn't believe he'll win.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/01/22/obama/index.html

If I had to guess I would say she and I are 180 degrees apart politically, but I find her an extremely interesting person, and from listening to her we share a number of same thoughts.

She was on Imus this morning ( I think this is her 3rd or 4th appearance), talking about what is considered Black in America, and made a very interesting statement. Paraphrasing here: 'Tiger Woods does not consider himself to be black, to do so would disrespect his mother who is Asian.'

I though about that statement for a moment then thought of BHO who keeps proclaiming he doesn't want race to be part of his campaign, but is always reminding us he is black. Just another quick glimpse into BHO's good looking, articulate, smiling persona.

Jack

Hersh has been writing about our activities in Iran for a long time and the Shrubians have been denying it but the evidence - especially the resignation of Admiral Fallon tells a different story.

An attack on Iran would be the utlimate FU by Bush.
I believe he is capable of doing it. There are plenty stories circulating that the top brass would all resign but I haven't seen that courage with a few exceptions and they have already resigned.

KGC,

If Bush attacks Iran, it will not only be an FU to the American People, but a thank you very much for your support to his buddies in the oil industry.

Iran sits right on the Straights of Hormuz, a choke point in the Persian Gulf. If the Iranians wanted to, they could prevent any of Saudi Arabia's oil from getting to market, which would I think could double the price of oil overnight. I can't help but think what that would do for Haliburton's bottom line...

Why, that rhymes with "all schmuck, all liar".

How'd that work out?

"I can tell you flatly that US forces are not operating across the Iraqi border into Iran, in the south or anywhere else. ... US forces are not operating across the Iran-Iraq border, no."

But he didn't mention, Turkmenistan, Turkey, Pakistan, Afghanistan Persian Gulf, Indian Ocean, Gulf of Oman or the Arabian Sea.

"One thing we all need to constantly remind ourselves is we almost all write in a conversational manner. That is a very sloppy way to communicate in text. Because when we converse we are not only using the words but the tone we use, our facial expressions and gestures all give meaning to our words. All of these are missing in text. -- Posted by: whskyjack"

May I, again, suggest that we implement the flaming tildes of sarcasm? ~ No, really. ~

A few years back, there were reports of special forces in Iran handing out cash. I mean, we did help secure their border by taking Iraq off of their hands. What's not to love about America?

Awesome news for Obama,

Aparently in Ohio, patriotic Americans think he's a Gay, Muslim racist who was born in Africa and refuses to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25447998/

Craig: TY for posting the info about Sen Webb's bill / amendment instructing the President about Iran. I wish you had mentioned that Sen Clinton was an early co-sponsor of that legislation.

Just a thought regarding Seymour Hersh's allegation that Dem leaders have "signed off" on this. The WH has a duty to inform Congressional leaders of covert plans, but those leaders are constrained not to say anything at all (remember Sen Rockefeller's letter that he hid in his safe?) The one person who might have said anything ... Rep Jane Harman ... was removed from the Intelligence Committee by Mrs Pelosi.

Bear
Ohio voters more evolved than you think
Obama leads:

RCP Average 06/09 - 06/22 -- 47.3 42.8 Obama +4.5

2 weeks ago the MSM was broadcasting Israel was staging to attack Iran. Now it is back to the US. Well one thing for certain who ever attacks Iran, we better hope they don't make the Straights of Hormuz impassable or gas will cost $10 a gallon.

maggisd and kgc,

Yup, yup and yup.

Pace Jerry Della Femina -- "From The Wonderful Folks Who Brought You The Iraq War And Were For It Before They Were Against It".

Naivete will be celebrated with toasts to Pelousy on another site.

Jamie: I guess Blackwater wouldn't qualify as US forces, would they?

On the other hand, have there been any reports and / or complaints from Iran that the US is operating across its border? I have not heard anything from the BBC on this issue...surely Ahmadinijad would not keep his mouth shut about such a thing.

Spent too much time reading all your wonderful posts. Time to go watch some tennis. Save a place for me at the table.

let's get moving faster on alternative oil and let them choke on their desert sands as their oil will become worth less and less. Enough supporting Iran (and Saudi Arabia and Russia and Venezuela and the like) with borrowed money. National Security=National Alternative Energy Policy

"Aparently in Ohio, patriotic Americans think he's a Gay, Muslim racist who was born in Africa and refuses to recite the Pledge of Allegiance."

Bear -- makes you wonder if ANY of these fools who allow themselves to be interviewed know how dumb they are going to look in print. And that the whole reason for the interview is to write a story about a dumb bunny. Kind of like after tornados....the only people they interview are fat blond women who talk hillbilly.

Ohio is a backassward state. Nothing would shock me.

(* I am currently living in ohio - before I get pummeled)

"On the other hand, have there been any reports and / or complaints from Iran that the US is operating across its border?"

CIA operatives? The CIA has been recruiting for Iranians for years, this is nothing new, it was published in the NYT. And who said there was going to be an invasion? Hersh? Does he have another book in the works? Israel is very capable of doing this on their own, with maybe some help from us with logistics from air and sea. This is all about pretty much to do about nothing.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/dems-tougher-on-iran-than-adve.html#comment-109094

Agree whole heartedly with you on this one Fry.

This is a whole lot of nothing. Political motivated. Or Iran would have been sabor rattling back by now.

Maybe Iran is more like Teddy Roosevelt
6/30/2008
Vice Adm. Cosgriff, the commander of the Fifth Fleet - responsible for naval operations in the Persian Gulf - made the remarks after Iran warned that it would not hesitate in taking all necessary measures to safeguard its national interests in case of an enemy offensive.

"When a country comes under attack, it naturally uses all its capacities to confront the enemy," said Major General Mohammad-Ali Jafari on Saturday in reference to the country's ability to cut oil supplies by closing the Strait of Hormuz.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=62083§ionid=351020101

2 weeks ago the MSM was broadcasting Israel was staging to attack Iran. Now it is back to the US. Well one thing for certain who ever attacks Iran, we better hope they don't make the Straights of Hormuz impassable or gas will cost $10 a gallon.

Posted by: FryDaddy Author Profile Page | June 30, 2008 12:53 PM

Fry,

Anyone who doesn't think the Iranians would make the straights impassable would be looking through the rosiest color of glasses.

It reminds me of the climactic scene in Reservoir Dogs where everyone is pointing guns at one another. If you're going to be hit, why wouldn't you inflict max pain in return?

BHO is a little late to the party isn't he? But he has and out on this one, at the time he didn't vote on this issue. WOW now there is a surprise, BHO not present for voting.

http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/obama-criticizes-moveon.org-in-patriotism-speech-2008-06-30.html

Froomkin on Iran...he's a Hersh believer and has evidence of his own.

"With preemption evidently off the table, some have speculated that Cheney is trying to come up with alternate ways the U.S. can be drawn into a conflict with Iran. See, for instance, my Aug. 10, 2007, column, Cheney's Secret Escalation Plan?

Hersh writes: "The potential for escalation became clear in early January, when five Iranian patrol boats, believed to be under the command of the Revolutionary Guard, made a series of aggressive moves toward three Navy warships sailing through the Strait of Hormuz. . . .

"The crisis was quickly defused by Vice-Admiral Kevin Cosgriff, the commander of U.S. naval forces in the region. . . .

"Cosgriff's demeanor angered Cheney, according to the former senior intelligence official. But a lesson was learned in the incident: The public had supported the idea of retaliation, and was even asking why the U.S. didn't do more. The former official said that, a few weeks later, a meeting took place in the Vice-President's office. 'The subject was how to create a casus belli between Tehran and Washington,' he said"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2008/06/30/BL2008063000719.html

"he's a Gay, Muslim racist who was born in Africa and refuses to recite the Pledge of Allegiance."

Gordo is from Ohio? : )

Iran derives it wealth from oil. So cutting of their own source of wealth will cause a world crisis until other solution are found, but it is pure suicide, and a prime ignition point for a revolution by the citizen of Iran who dislike their leadership.

FryDaddy:

Drat! I failed to tune-in Imus this morning. Debra Dickerson is great every time she comes on with him. I will be sure to tune into one of the replays.

'The subject was how to create a casus belli between Tehran and Washington,'

At first I would think this could be another Gulf of Tonkin, but the events surrounding the Gulf of Tonkin incident were contrived. Here you have Iranian gunships on film acting in a menacing way, and any US naval ship can fire their weapons if they believe the threat is real. Remember the USS Cole DDG-67. Rubber rafts can sink a war ship, that lesson has not been forgotten.

Fry,

On the surface I agree but they can certainly flood the market with their oil before they cut off other supplies and in a fight, the person with the least to lose is often the most dangerous.

Anything we do will fuel their sense of Nationalism and if the mullah want to start the countdown to Armageddon, they know that Bush will be the willing foil. The Iranian people in general are very favorable towards the US. While I don't know numbers, I am sure that a lot of them have family here. I remember reading stories that while many people there don't see the need for nuclear energy, they don't like being told what to do by other countries.

The more I listen to Debra Dickerson the more I like her thinking. And yes I know she is a D and maybe even a bit Left of center, but this woman makes a lot of sense.

Here's a new Rasmussen poll that shows McCain losing lots of ground in Arizona:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/arizona/election_2008_arizona_presidential_election

Since May, his lead has slipped from 20 points to 9.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/news/story?id=3467383

Not sure they can flood the market for 3 reasons. There is a world wide shortage of large tanker ships, they are pretty much at their max on out put, and Iran as most of the Middle East knows their days oil are coming to a end. There is only so much oil under than sand, once that is gone there is no more. Then the question will be, what do we do now for an economy? For that reason alone I can understand why they want to go nuclear power. The problem isn't that Iran wants to go nuclear, but who is governing the country at this time. I could be wrong about this, but are there any other countries that believe that allowing Iran to go nuclear is a good idea? I think the answer is NO ONE.

Ditto Fry and Ivy on Debra Dickerson. I've always liked her on Imus and a couple of other shows she's appeared on -- and when Fry posted that it made me google her bio...LOVE the fact she admits she was clueless as a young woman. I love it when people just lay it all out and say, what the hell?

Nick
Thanks for the "Two Faces and Forked Tongue" link earlier. It just cements what i feel about the Senator.

Fry,

Didn't remember that there was a tanker shortage but I thought that Iran had some type of pipeline running to Russia or somewhere in the Mediterranean. Is that real or in the planning stages?

This is candy for the Clintonians...

I'm posting it because she and I went to URI together...

http://www.mollylloyd.com/

""...Jack, where are you when we need you."

Flatus
is there some reason for this arrangement of thoughts.
I've seen my name put together with a lot of words but this is a new one. ;-)..."

Jack, of course there's a reason, it's because I'm in my dotage. I was thinking of Lard's new 'endeavor' and thought, with the derivation of skulduggery, it was the perfect to opportunity to...

In any case, mea culpa. Have you considered going partners with him? That would bail me out,

Ivy, what a wonderful story!

Sturg,

Grad school. Let her buy the books and you pay the tuition. You'll come out better. :)

Sitting here listening to Debra Dickerson's appearance on Imus this morning. Wonder if she would like joining us here.

More price pressure on corn.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/01/business/01crop.html

This is getting ugly quickly.

*Breaking* Kos Tampering with Obama Birth Certificate?

"The “seal,” sure enough, shows up on the first image — the one I was instructed to use in Greg’s e-mail. Not surprisingly, it looks like the attachment he sent:

BUT when the second jpg file — the one Polarik made from the original Kos story — is analyzed using the exact same application of the magic software, you guessed it…. there is NO SEAL:

Kos has some (more) explaining to do. Tampering with a birth certificate is a crime."

http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/06/30/breaking-kos-tampering-with-obama-birth-certificate/#more-418

"Sitting here listening to Debra Dickerson's appearance on Imus this morning. Wonder if she would like joining us here.'

That would be something, but she does write a blog for Mother Jones, has her own web site, http://www.thelastplantation.com/ , is a teaching professor, and a single mother of 2 young boys. So I think her free time is pretty well spoken for. For a Liberal she is down right tough on her own race, she is even tougher on Liberals. She is very different and constantly evolving, questioning her own Liberalism, and maybe that is what has caught my attention.

Pogo,

I didn't see that as being a negative report in that, even with the loss, they have more acres in production than was anticipated early in the year.

Yes, things are ugly, but there are bright spots like reestablishing the everglades. Steadily, Floridians are unraveling the incredibly ill thought-out projects of the last century.

Now, if somehow people along the great rivers can be convinced, or incentivized, into getting towns and homes and industrial facilities out of the flood plain, we would dramatically lessen the human cost of the inevitable flooding that occurs.

We can lessen the price swings of any vital commodity by introducing reserves into the market. So, in the case oil, we have both strategic reserves and market reserves. And, for grains, we have market reserves.

For energy, itself, our reserves must shift to alternative means of production.

All these commodities are priced at the margin. We don't have to replace all the shortages, just enough to reduce the cost of the next item that is being purchased.

Poor Wes Clark, another one under the bus.

http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/30/wes-clarke-walks-into-mccains-giant-wood-chipper/

Sign the Vote Vets petition in support of General Clark
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/6/30/1533/68382

pogo,

I agree that is bad news for corn, but corn today followed wheat and closed limit down. 30 cents to $7.57. Commodity's market are very strange beast, what sound like bad new will drop the price and good news will sometimes raise the price.
They always tell you when this sort of thing happens that the markets have already priced this in and so the news is no news and the markets are just correcting themselves. This is why I stopped playing the futures market, if you don't have a direct in, you can get killed. I am hoping one of these days there is a massive sell off in the energy markets. As you know there is suppose to be a buyer for every seller. But not always there is this little thing called a lock limit down day, meaning you have all sellers or buyers, but not sellers and buyers. And if you are on the wrong side of the trade you are in big trouble cause you can't get out until someone wants to trade, sometimes that is days. Some markets have no limits, they can fall as far as the market will bear.

KGC:

I'm not sure Obama threw Wes Clark "under the bus" exactly, but it is annoying that Obama didn't stick by Clark's comments, which were sane and to the point.

Flatus, it's not as bad as it could be, or as bad as I thougth it might be, but even with the increased acreage, the yield is what, 7.8% less than last year - and last year saw corn prices rise based largely on demand in both the foodstock and enegergy markets and the costs of transportation.

As for me, LP is placing demands on my time, the value of which is rising rapidly, so I have to leave.

Manana.

The Great Obama "birth certificate" debate: Who has the EDGE?

"QUESTION: Are there seals hidden from view on the "Certificate of Live Birth" images posted to (a) the Daily Kos. (b) BarackObama.com (aka "Fight the Smears") and/or (c) the two images posted on OPENDNA's PhotoBucket account?

ANSWER: YES to (a), but a big, fat NO to (b) and (c)"

http://polarik.blogtownhall.com/2008/06/30/the_great_obama_birth_certificate_debate_who_has_the_edge.thtml

"I understand what Wes Clark was trying to say about John McCain when he said that getting shot out of a plane doesn't qualify as foreign policy experience. I can also understand that every strategist on the Obama campaign must've had apoplexy when they heard the comment. "

"I'm sorry Obama accepted the right wing frame that Clark was questioning McCain's patriotism -- he clearly wasn't. The ensuing collective hissy fit on the part of a media (and a nation) held hostage by the War On Terra is both atavistic and exhausting" Jane Hamsher

The Failed States Index 2008

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4350

Take a look at the map, Africa is collapsing.

Jack

"Yesterday, General Wesley Clark said John McCain had not passed that test. But Barack Obama disagrees and "rejects" Clark's assessment. Apparently, Obama agrees that McCain has passed the Commander in Chief test. I doubt McCain will extend the same courtesy. More . ."

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/6/30/17233/1638

I can't see where Wes Clark said anything wrong either. McCain has said as much himself over the years. Yet another person speaking the truth and getting strung up for it. Ask Geraldine Ferraro. All she did was repeat what Obama himself had said earlier. And she was turned into a racist old white bitch for it.

KGC: If I were Sen Obama, I would be trying to get someone to put a gag in General Clark's mouth. Now, I recognize that this is the age-old tension between fly-boys and ground troops, AND I think General Clark is one smart cookie, but he has made these remarks before and they come out sounding as if he is downplaying Sen McCain's service. The last time he spoke on this subject, he bragged about how he (Clark) had come home on a stretcher from Vietnam, where he was in charge of troops on the ground.
This whole subject is a no win for the Obama campaign, it really is. And it should be avoided.

maggisd

I agree with you this is a no win for Obama at this point but only because the real enemy is the media and not what General Clark said. They covered the story they wanted to not the one that actually happened.

'MSNBC's Novotny falsely claimed Clark "blasted McCain's military record"
http://mediamatters.org/items/200806300006
On the June 30 edition of MSNBC Live, anchor Monica Novotny falsely claimed that retired Gen. Wesley Clark "blasted [Sen. John] McCain's military record" during an appearance on the June 29 edition of CBS' Face the Nation. In fact, Clark did not "blast[]" McCain's military record. Rather, he praised McCain as "a hero" and stated, "I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war," but argued that McCain's military record does not make him qualified to be president."

Patsi: The thing about it is that it's just the ground troops vs the fly boys...I know a lot of them and they've been at this argument since the 70s. Many an otherwise pleasant block party in my old neighborhood almost came to blows over this issue.

KGC: I wish someone had said that to John Kerry.

The interesting thing about the Clark-McCain thing is that I don't recall ever having heard Sen McCain state that his military service qualified him to be President. He does speak of it often (too often IMHO) as part of his life experiences, but I don't think he has himself confused with General Eisenhower.

Obama agrees that McCain has passed the Commander in Chief test.

Doesn't Obama always do that. Someone else does the dirty work and he comes in as the good guy, saying the opposite. That's after the idea is already out there. I like Clark, but he has been saying the same thing for a while. And it's always looked like part of the Democratic strategy to me. I've always thought he's overdone it on this particular point.

maggisd

You raise an interesting point. This is one guy's take on how McCain uses his service as a political tool:
http://www.brendan-nyhan.com/blog/2007/10/john-mccain-pla.html

This is the Columbia Journalism Review's take on where the media went wrong on this issue:
http://www.cjr.org/campaign_desk/attacking_mccains_military_rec.php

The Democrats were bound to hit hard on this though, since McCain has relied so heavily on his Military record to convince everyone he's ready and most able to defend the Country. That and his 'Maverick" reputation, along with his fair handedness in working with others, are really the only things he has going for him.

Patsi, I think what they came down on Geraldine Ferraro for was much more out of line. She was just giving her own personal opinion to a very small publication and never expected it to go nation wide. Someone unexpectedly ran across the interview she did and suddenly everyone had it. She didn't say those things for political gain. She was just talking. I really believe that.

Maggisd,

When it's Chuck Hagel making the same point as McCain, will it carry greater merit?

I spoken to more than one vet at the VFW who have wondered what the big deal about being a POW is. In their eyes, only failed soldiers get captured.

These guys were infantry who never liked that the fly boys got the glory while they had to crap in fox holes while being shot at

OK...I heard Clark's comments on McCain and he said McCain getting shot down didn't qualify him to be president, then Clark praised McCain's service. Ed Schultz said (today on Air America) that if losing a plane in wartime was a prerequisite then Reagan would not have made it. Schultz is coming on CNN tonight if you want to catch his take on this whole dust-up.

I have never had my head in the sand about Obama's vehement aggressive mindset regarding Iran. I have blogged for years about what a hawk Obama is, and the recent AIPAC speech proves without a doubt things will be grim in Iran if Obama wins, because he has spoken out for years with anti-Iranian enthusiasm and I believe he will bomb Iran.
This is why he was the least favorite Democrat to me. Oh well...I am for him now, even though I have many disagreements with the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians, among many other aggressive stances agoinst Arabs in general.
For election purposes, Obama should garner a large share of the US pro-Zionist vote...no US President ever has spoken so pro-Israel.
It's really odd how Google and the ChiTrib no longer provide access to Obama's fiery speeches against Iran from 2003.
They just disappeared when Obama became a presidential candidate.

Apparently the only person allowed to impugn McCain's patriotism and service is Shrub:

In the 2000 South Carolina Presidential primary Bush surrogates circulated stories that McCain's five years as a POW had made him "mentally unstable," gave him a "loose screw," that he "committed treason while a POW" and "came home and forgot us."

And McSame blamed Bush for this crap -- personally:

In a barely controlled debate that revealed the depth of their mutual anger, Gov. George W. Bush and Senator John McCain lashed into each other's negative campaign tactics tonight, with Mr. McCain lecturing Mr. Bush that he ''should be ashamed'' that a surrogate had accused Mr. McCain of abandoning veterans.

Mr. Bush refused Mr. McCain's demand that he apologize, instead insisting that Mr. McCain stop impugning his integrity. In seething, indignant accusations, each man tried to portray himself as the victim of gutter politics, with Mr. McCain saying he had been called everything but a fascist.

''You're putting out stuff that is unbelievable, George, and it's got to stop,'' he said. ''And your ads have got to stop.''
http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/30/wingnuts-only-bush-and-rove-are-allowed-to-question-mccains-military-record/#comments

Maggi: "The thing about it is that it's just the ground troops vs the fly boys..."

Yeah...my relatives are all over the place, Air Force pilots, Navy pilots and -- army ground. Lord!

Chloe -- Yes, these days people open their mouths at their peril.

I have blogged for years about what a hawk Obama is, and the recent AIPAC speech proves without a doubt things will be grim in Iran if Obama wins, because he has spoken out for years with anti-Iranian enthusiasm and I believe he will bomb Iran. Dexter

I agree,
And he's talked like he would even lately. But you never know what he's saying to get elected and what he means.

Chloe,

I'm confused by your last post. How were you rating Clarke's comment in regard to Geraldine's?

I agree that they were both making personal statements but it's harder to say Ferraro's wasn't from closer to within the campaign than the general.

I can appreciate the McCain reaction because his is a single leg campaign and the last thing he needs is people from within the military kicking at it...

Patsi,

Any Coast Guard in the tree?

Patsi and Bear: I know just what you mean. You can't believe the arguments in my old neighborhood when Apocalypse Now came out ... all the fly-boys said "it wasn't like that at all" while all the Marines and boys in boats said "It was just like that." And the women sighed and said, "Don't you think you've had enough to drink?"

General Clark was really close to Hillary when be began saying this.

Geraldine's was little more than a fund raiser. She ALWAYS talks very freely and I don't really think anyone fools themselves that they can control what she says. Hey, that's what I like about her. No one owns hers.

Clark just seems to be continuing on supporting the Democrat who now has the nomination. For all I know, he wants to be veep.

But I'm just thinking out loud. Not stating any facts, obviously. Just my opinion. But open.

Bear: Geraldine Ferraro was not "inside" the Clinton campaign. She held one fundraiser in her home and was, as a courtesy, listed as part of the Finance Committee.
When she made the remarks she was in Torrance to give a speech (not on behalf of the Clinton campaign) at a private venue and she was interviewed by the local free advertiser.
Her remarks were sent to the Obama campaign and shopped around all the news outlets...some two weeks after they had been made. I believe it was Andrea Mitchell who remarked on one of the MSNBC shows that "everyone knew" the Obama campaign had shopped the remarks....she said that only once, and never again.

http://www.aipac.org/about_AIPAC/default.asp

Bear, interesting commentary from your friends in the VFW. I am a VFW member and serving in Vietnam is my credential.

The VFW is filled with people with every take imaginable regarding their personal war experiences.

The leadership is always pro-troop, and always pro-whatever war the president leads us into.

I have been hanging around my VFW hall for 37 years and I never have heard one soldier say only failed soldiers get captured. My neighbor when I was a boy survived the Bataan Death March. He had nothing to do with the events that led to his being a POW. It was due to consequences of how the war turned. He was rewarded by having the town park named for him, posthumously.

A lot of US pow s in Vietnam were downed helicopter crews, also. I cannot begin to convey the bravery and just plain guts those guys had. I flew a few missions into hostile areas to rescue injured firefight victims and those pilots set those choppers down in between areas of jungle canopy so close they would have scared anyone but us who knew their skills...and again, many of those brave guys became POW s. Never, never were they referred to as failed soldiers...we revered them and I have never lost my admiration to those guys. They were and are very special people.

Bear, I looked at your post again. The only reason I referred to Geraldine was in reference to Patsi's post.

Chloe: With regard to Sen Obama's pro-Israel remarks. I do not think they were more forceful than the remarks of many American politicians. I just do not know how sincere they were.
There are more than a few photographs of him taking part in fund-raising dinners for Palestinian causes in Chicago and his associate Rezko has ties with Iraq ... it could well be that Sen Obama felt the need to take this very public pro-Israel stand to dispell any lingering thoughts that he might have a different viewpoint from 60 years of American foreign policy.
I just don't know.

Dexter: Bravo!
You have said it all.

it could well be that Sen Obama felt the need to take this very public pro-Israel stand to dispell any lingering thoughts that he might have a different viewpoint from 60 years of American foreign policy maggisd

Magg,
I hope he's being honest. But I'm not sure. I have no idea what he thinks, because his actions often belie his words. So I just assumed he is saying whatever he's told to say to win the demographics he needs to win. I could be wrong. It would be nice if I am.

Chloe: I would say that he definitely wants to be Veep. As with you, just my opinion.
When I hear people state that all McCain has to run on is his military service and his 28 years in the Congress, I want to respond ... well, what does Sen Obama have to run on?

Yes Magg, I agree.

Chloe: I don't know either -- and I wish I did. I'm not voting for him, but I kinda think he'll win. Unless all the young people lose their enthusiasm and the MoveOn crowd decides to vote Green and the only people left voting are old folks.

and the working class.

"Any Coast Guard in the tree?"

Not that I know of...interestingly, no marines that I know of either. LOTS of pilots -- both AF and Navy, and my ex was army, on the ground in Vietnam.

For those discussing corn and grain production and prices, I found this informative web site.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/010/ai466e/ai466e02.htm

Jack

"I believe it was Andrea Mitchell who remarked on one of the MSNBC shows that "everyone knew" the Obama campaign had shopped the remarks....she said that only once, and never again. "

Maggi -- SO TRUE! To really pick up on what went on this "hunting season" you had to really pay attention to the quick comments that then got buried. I seldom heard follow-up about Obama's campaign asking Atlantic to run a Clinton sex sting, as well as that memo to O-supporters to tape every statement the Clintons made for something that could be construed as racist.

And what about Jesse Jr's sneering laugh about having to be careful that it didn't look like Hillary got "OJ'd" ??? How friggin' racist AND sexist was that?

Furthermore, by actually paying attention to those kinds of quick comments, I understood early on that Tom Daschle advised Obama from day zero, and told him how to go after Bill Clinton. Ugly stuff.

Dishonest campaign, and in the end we have a near repeat of 2000: a selected candidate.

And speaking of alternative fuel truck stop and entertainment hubs:

Willie's Place at Carl's Corner, Texas, just a few miles north of Willie Nelson's birthplace of Abbott, is reopening Tuesday (July 1) with David Allan Coe and Ray Wylie Hubbard performing there for three nights. The alternative fuel truck stop and entertainment hub will be packed when Willie headlines a star-studded day-long concert on Thursday (July 3) with friends like Ray Price, Merle Haggard, Coe, Hubbard and others. BioWillie biodiesel fuel will be getting plenty of attention in the days to come. Billed as the biggest green truck stop in the United States, Willie's Place will include 13 islands and 26 pumps.

DAMN I want to be there!

Obama talks to Bill Clinton
By MIKE ALLEN | 6/30/08 4:18 PM EST Updated: 6/30/08 6:35 PM EST

Seeking to beat back reports of a continuing rift, the Obama campaign announced today that Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) and former President Bill Clinton have talked by phone.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/11441.html

Chloe, that article made me ill.

Flatus,
I don't take any of this very seriously anymore.
I don't know which is true, and which is for show.
I trust Bill will do what's best.

cheap cereal, whyskyjack? sweet, i'm for it. but what about milk and sugar?

Why sick, Flatus? Because all of the conspiracy theories that said Obama wouldn't be able to consolidate the party around him have been proven to be untrue?

Whew, you guys sure do live in an alternate universe, where your candidate is pure as the driven snow and non-political. They simply serve for the pleasure of their country. Yeah, right. This is the big dance and if you think William Jefferson Clinton isn't going to be on the dance floor, you don't know him very well. Spotlight? Check. A chance for pundits to call him a political genius again? Check. Chance for redemption in the black community for those latent racism remarks? You got it. Bill needs Obama and he knows it. He'll be holding up Obama's hand in the next two weeks, smiling like they were old buds from Hope.

Hillaryland at War
Clinton doomed by inner circle infighting

According to Sheehy, fierce infighting among the Clinton inner circle "team of rivals" -- Harold Ickes, Mark Penn, Patty Solis Doyle, Mandy Grunwald and Howard Wolfson, left the campaign unable to recover from blunders, like woefully underestimating Barack Obama and dithering about competing aggressively in the Iowa caucuses.
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/08/clinton200808?printable=true¤tPage=all

And speaking of alternative fuel truck stop and entertainment hubs:

Patsi,

I hope they still have the Frog Musicians on the roof. Until the place shut down there was only that to recommend it. Willie may have piled a truck or 2 load of money into that place.

Abbott, Tx is about 25 miles south of there. Hillsboro is the next town south of Abbott. That is where the split for I 35 is so I 35 W goes to Ft Worth and I 35E goes to Dallas. Carl's Corner is the first exit north of the I 35 split on I 35E.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Patsi

"DAMN I want to be there!"

Come on lady ... THINK ... there has to be someone who will get you there and get you in. : )

Mr. Demogague

The only one living in an alternate universe is you.
There were no racist remarks latent or otherwise and neither Senator or President Clinton who need Obama for anything.

Well...if we just take a look around at who's with us right now, we can probably make a pretty good guess as to who the oh-so-courageous 'anonymous' actually is....

"I don't take any of this very seriously anymore."

Chloe, I realize the Clintons will do what they need to do. What made me ill was the absolutely amateurish job of writing the releases.

" absolutely amateurish job of writing the releases."

Flatus, I'm glad I wasn't alone. The whole release sounded as if it was a verbatim of a text message no an actual attempt at writing well.

You almost wonder how many decades it will be before there are more illiterate than literate people in this country.

What made me ill was the absolutely amateurish job of writing the releases.

LOL.

nite

It's not Clinton's party? It's not the Democratic party.

Doots -- Looks like Willie's got yer frogs!

http://www.biowillieusa.com/inner.php?editorpage=wpl

Patsi
Your so right.I became an Independent because it wasn't the Democratic party anymore.Damn still waiting for my new Independent card so i can photo copy and send too Dean along with my torn up Dem. card. I know it sounds silly but its something i need to do.

Ha! Tony....good for you!

By the way, anyone who wants to donate to someone might consider NC state Sen. Kay Hagan, who, according to one of the CQ articles, might have a shot against Liddy Dole if she gets some funding.

Wes Clark is doing a great job on Abrahma' show defending what he said re: McCain.

Jamie -- One of the reasons I'd love to see that show is that David Allan Coe and Ray Wylie Hubbard are simply two of the best outlaw country performers left standing.

Hard to say which Coe does better, hillbilly music or Johnny Ace....

Ray Wylie Hubbard's devotion to Patsi

http://youtube.com/watch?v=E24C4NY0ga8

"A child born abroad on or after December 24, 1952 and before November 14, 1986 to one U.S. citizen parent and one non-citizen parent can acquire U.S. citizenship at birth if the U.S. citizen parent can demonstrate that he or she was physically present in the United States for a minimum of ten years, at least five of which were after the age of fourteen, prior to the birth of the child."

http://www.usa.gov.om/overseasbirth.htm

( "age of fourteen" )

"but what about milk and sugar?"

Craig
From the menu to the left on that web site

Sugar prices staying up inspite of plentiful supplies
Milk and milk products have peaked and are falling.

They are all commodities the prices go up and down.
It is just the way commodities behave. If someone tells you a commodity is going to stay up forever. They are being irrational. If it is an expert, think about selling. If there are many experts , then it is time to get out of the business for a while. You can always buy back in, in a couple of years.

Jack
Who is no longer a farmer because he was always good at buying high and selling low.

Nonny, that was funny...!

Annoymous, very funny
yours led to this

Leon Russell Willie Nelson Waylon Jennings Doug Kershaw Jam

1974 Willie Nelson's 2nd Annual 4th Of July Picnic. Bryan/College Station, TX

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8H6me1FSPb8

"Ray Wylie Hubbard's devotion to Patsi

http://youtube.com/watch?v=E24C4NY0ga8"

You bettcher butt, anon....

I don't have time to comment lately but I do enjoy reading most of the posts.It usually takes me over an hour to read them and by that time the blog gets a little testy and I start nodding off.And since i haven't posted,I haven't been called a racist.
Was talking to a good friend earlier who is in a dilemna because there isn't a decent candidate to vote for this year.
I told her I would probably write in hillary and although she is not a big Clinton fan,she said it was a good idea and she would consider doing the same.

Ruth

more of the 74 fourth of july picnic

Willie and Whiskyriver

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dkNyQiD5T0Y

Ruth
Good to see you.

Hows the garden?

Jack

Ruth
More important

hows your husband doing.

Jack

Painter
Im with you.There's no one to vote for.I feel for the first time in my life very lonely and not very American.SAD

Ann Dunham

November 29, 1942 – November 7, 1995

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Ann_Dunham

=========================================

Barack Obama

August 4, 1961 - Kapiolani Medical Center in Honolulu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_obama

=========================================

When? Where?

We listen to willie's place on xm radio,ch.13, and love the station.
Ruth

Gary P Nunn Lost Gonzo Band

London Homesick Blues (aka home with the armadillo)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4EBwiG_PX4

Jack
Garden's doing good and husband is too even tho he is worn out after his treatment..This week he has to do two days in a row,because we want to go to our son's pub to watch the fireworks along the river and it is on one of his treatment days.
Going to meet with doctors about a transplant next month.Problem is medicare only pays for meds for 3 yrs.then you are on your own and it cost close to $4000 a month,which is more than we can afford.
They will pay for treatment indefinitely,which costs between $30,000 and $40,000 a month.Doesn't make sense.We will check it out though.

Ruth

Going to watch Nashville star now and will check back later

Ruth

Michael Murphey Cosmic Cowboy
1974 Willie Nelson's 2nd Annual 4th Of July Picnic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yTlYVB4c_k

Viv - I asked a radiologist I know pretty well about non-surgical radiology treatments for arthritis.. He mentioned two, and you may have already heard of them or even tried them:

One was epidural steroid installations.

The other was facet injections.

I got no details,but as I said, you may already be familiar with them.

All these rumors and stories - I don't dislike Hersh, but don't know how accurate his stories usually are. It seems to me that there are a lot of possible stories that show up for a day or so in a campaign like this. They get a lot of reaction, but then something else comes up. I won't be surprised at anything that proves to be true.

It seems to me that all the daily stories add up eventually to an overall impression we have of a politician.That's why there are so many rumors on the net re Obama - we know so little of him factually - there is maybe one year's worth of daily stories. Hillary and McCain have decades of those daily stories and so we have such strong believes about them.. Obama is a prime candidate to be made to order.

The way I see it is that there is a lot of jockeying for position, and the machine has the job of sculpting Obama and they are watching McCain for weak spots in his stands so they can carve out safe oppositions.
They have to be careful they don't knick the important parts, or cause any cracks. McCain's people are stuck with what they have. One more aspect of experience vs lack of experience .

Does anybody else think it's gonna be a kinda quiet campaign?

Apparently, KO had another of his special comments
(groan), this time re Obama and FISA. I couldn't bear it and wonder if anyone else did hear it. If so, please please tell me/us.

"putting the needs of people above those of the drug and insurance companies"

Thats funny
Nobody has a plan that puts people first. Obama's plan is an Insurance company enrichment plan. That is all it is. But then so are all the other so called plans.

Jack

Obama's policy is not all inclusive and it will probably not be any different.We have medicare and also a private supplement and my husband also gets medical care from the VA.It will take congress to make any substantial improvements to the system.No president alone will be able to do it.

Ruth

Jack....a heads up to you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1sDTTRjncY&feature=related

Nitty Gritty Dirt Band - Cadillac ranch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iikBQ6MEFA0

OMG! Jack -- now that I understand Youtube, (thanks to you) I was even able to find one by my dearest Nashville friend!!!!! The man who has stood by me through thin & thinner for the last 25 years!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hS1VZ3wPFQ&feature=related

NEW THREAD

Happy Day, Canada

Bravo Patsi
My sentiments exactly!
Ruth

Patsi

It is amazing what is posted out there, isn't it.

if I'm doing a subject like the Rockabilly night I use wikipedia for a general information. I got the rare names that I wouldn't have known and then look for them on youtube. I'm always amazed how much I can find.

Jack

Health care -- don't get me started.

I was paying nearly five hundred bucks a month for health insurance. Then I broke my shoulder...

When I went to the emergency room with the broken shoulder I stayed four hours for: one x-ray, one pain pill and one prescription. They then told me they could do nothing about a broken shoulder, handed me an arm sling and sent me packing with instructions to contact a specialist for surgery.

That ER visit cost me over $1500. And although there was ONE doctor there, I was charged for several.

Of course, after the emergency room payment, I still had what was left of a $4000 deductable...the company dropped me after rehab stretched out...now because of other health issues I can't even get any insurance. Until that broken shoulder, I had maybe seen a doctor four times in twenty years because I was pretty danged healthy. So I had never even used that insurance.

And I have three years to go until Medicare.

Medicine costs are digging my grave. And that's why I know Obama and McCain are two rats feeding on the same corpse -- mine. They will do ZIP about me and millions like me.

Hillary tried to do something about it years ago and Democrats and Republicans alike beat her half to death over it. This country has screwed its people.

NEW THREAD