Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Aha! First! Good morning mixers!

OMG! arnicle is on MoJo saying sexism had nothing to do with media's coverage of Hillary's campaign! He's the guy who said that Hillary reminded men of their first wives at probate court.

It's "Let's Bash Hillary Day on MoJo."

For some it has been Bash Hillary Season. Unforgivable

I won't vote on that thing but I hope Richardson gets it as he's such a loser that I want to see the Dem party go down in historic defeat under this unbelievably unqualified and DANGEROUS obama.

makes me embarrassed to be an american to watch the utter ignorance of americans to flock like idiot sheep first behind bush and now behind this islamist bozo

and don't tell me he's not an islamist! do your homework on the technicalities of being a muslim, which he started out tot me, and all his dangerous connections and influences in life.

this guy is dangerous for america!

no to obambi!

Craig -- MoJo and Mika are channeling your Ageism issue.

Good Morning Everyone,

To Alicia: I have a difficult time watching MoJo lately. I usually need a couple days decompression after each viewing.

I guess it's still bash Hillary season.

I went for Clark over Bayh. Cleland over Biden, Richardson over Webb.

My theory: No Senators, especially no Senators from states where picking up a replacement DE would be difficult.

One Senator gets an exception: HRC, because that would make the ticket more palatable for me, and because in NY, we could easily pick up another DEM Senator to replace her.

Some I voted for -- like Nunn, will just make it easier for me to write-in Hillary,

Don´t you guys se that the HiIlary bashing is there substance to actualley HAVE something to say?
Other than that they are pointless...
They are empty. Nothing to tell!

HRC has been out of the limelight for over a week, still, she occupies the media like crazy...LOL
This is insane.

Anyway,
Really nice article I read this morning.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/10917.html

Craig, come on....Evan Bayh has said that he will not, shall not, ever be on a team with BO.
Why is he still in there?

Prof Marcia -- I am watching MoJo this morning to get my blood going after partying rather heartily last night for my big 5-0. Trust me, tomorrow I will have to watch the local happy news channels -- Weather and Traffic Every 10 Minutes! -- as part of my recovery. Today is a stellar day on MoJo Mika is in her major twitty sexism denial mode, aided and abetted by the professional curmudgeon Barnicle, with incessant silliness from the increasingly annoying Willie Geist.

Poor Harold Ford is sitting there like an uncomfortable witness to a shit-fest.

Frankly, I don't give a big, fat fig who Obama chooses at VP. If he chose Hillary
maybe I might care. But, since there's not much chance of that happening, I'm not really interested in what the DNC or Obama's bogus VP seach committee
does.

Hey Alicia,

Happy Birthday! Wow 50!

I'm sure you don't even look 40. Anyway, 50 is the new 40. I just saw an Entertainment Tonight episode showing all the glam women over 60 titled 'Sixty Is The New Sexy!"

The media is addicted to women-bashing They cannot help it. It gets them so much mileage: First, they engage in it, then they get to talk about the reaction form the engagement, then they get to deny making sexist statements, and talk about their denial. It's a circular thing. Hillary is a favorite target -- but hold on -- Michele Obama will soon have her turn in the crosshairs. A friend was telling me yesterday that it seems to have already happened -- the radio yappers were bashing her big-time. I am not a fan of Michele, but I can see that she will be the new Hillary as the woman most talking heads love to hate. As would happen to any strong, outspoken woman in the spotlight.

That whole MoJo crowd just gets on my nerves. Mika is so prissy and irritating especially the way she's always making those noises when Joe is talking. Mika wouldn't know sexism if it bit her on her skinny rear-end.

prof marcia, hypocrisy may lower the credibility of a speaker but it doesn't invalidate the message. In fact we are all guilty; that we try to speak the truth says something about how guilty. Compare to McCaine.
I am not blind but I try to keep my eyes open and I think there is still room under the bus;)

glam women over 60 titled 'Sixty Is The New Sexy!"

trust me it's all about advil and prunes! Too much work to be glam --and some of that work is painful and expensive.

msnbc is just trying to stay out of the crapper by justifying their bad behavior. Mika B is an ass

Thanks Marcia -- It was a gathering of my divided DEM friends -- some O-people, some H-people. Very Very Very little discussion of politics last night, thank goodness. Lots of wine, and a couple dirty martinis though.

Happy Birthday Alicia

Prof Marcia...thanks for reposting your thoughts from the last thread. I was just going to post the link to them. Very good. And I'm working on a little blog where I would like to add them, if you don't mind.

Morning Joe is a joke today. Mika's "I'm just saying..." makes me nuts.

Alicia,

I agree with everything you just wrote about the media and sexism.
But, I am not so sure that the pundits will go after Michele Obama in
the way they did Hillary. Up to now, they've treated her with great respect.

I think she should be scrutinized because she has put herself in the spotlight by campaigning for her husband. But she should not be attacked in a sexist way.

Obama has already gone on the defensive, warning the media not to go after his wife. It was okay for the media to go after Bill Clinton though.

The media has a real love affair with the Obama's. I'd be surprised if the misogynists try to shred Michelle--although she deserves a thorough vetting!

Yeah well, picking the VP for Obama is a mixed thing for me. I don't think he'll pick Hillary because he's too insecure. I would love it if he picks Richardson. Then let all of Big Bill's kittens out of the bag. Sheesh, that guy makes Bill Clinton look like a virgin.

Whoop! Another one under da bus!

Hi Patsi,

Yes. Thanks. I would be pleased if you used my post in your blog. Let me
know the link when you get it going.

Alicia,
seems like a great party. I'm at the point where I try to avoid talk about politics
unless someone else brings up the subject. My friends are all divided, even
though most are Dems.

Catherine,
I love that--Advil and prunes. And I agree, it's expensive, painful and a lot
of work to be glam. Glam is in the eye of the beholder.

Happy Birthday, Alicia!!

Welcome to the 50's...wooohooo!!!

good morning gang....

Happy Birthday Alicia!
I LOVE being in my 50s.....

I don't care who Obama picks as a VP either.... and I don't care who McCain picks..... this whole election is starting to be a snoozer for me.....

prof Marcia..... thanks for reposting your reply to dog..... I read it on both threads..... it was worth a second look....

I also heard that Ed Rendell and Jim Webb are big time womanizers, too.

My best friend dated Sherrod Brown for a long time.

speaking of Mika....what is with the clothes...can't stand her unprofessional wardrobe...these talking heads need to wear something like a suit....like Couric or Kyra Phillips

Alicia,

Happy Birthday!! Savor every day and every friendship and do good works!

Marcia -- The radioheads are already hitting Michele in nasty ways. Let's not be deluded. In a world where women are ranked behind men, black women are ranked even lower, having to contend with a double dose of racism and sexism.

The radio guys were talking about Obama yesterday, saying "America might be ready for a black president, but it's not ready for a black First Lady."

Fox News is referring to her as "Obama Baby Mama."

She's a target -- they're just warming up.

Alicia hinted that Bill Richardson might be a womanizer and I've heard that many other leading Democratic politicians probably are, too.
Question: Does it still matter if a man is like that anymore?

I think it does in a way. But, I'm not sure it has anything to do with how good
a president he is. Look at JFK and FDR and others who liked the ladies way
too much.

It doesn't matter who BO picks; it's a no-win sitch for the Dems. BO would be an absolute disaster of a prez & the closer we get to November, the more folks are gonna realize it and show up at the polls to vote against him. Yep, against.

I'm starting to wonder if the GOP will pull a last-minute switch with McCain (health issues, real or manufactured) and do a Romney/Huckabee ticket?

My friend's obituary. Her picture isn't very clear.

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/announcements_obits/x379966543/Christine-Goedhart-45

PM, et al.,

Here's an important op-ed from this morning's WSJ that speaks to what you were talking about earlier:

Obama Is No 'Post-Racial' Candidate
By Ward Connerly
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121331581159370055.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

Mr. Connerly is chairman of the American Civil Rights Coalition

Happy Friday the 13th everyone! I hope you all don't scare too easily!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSt6c5-whHY&feature=related

Alicia,

I guess the media ghouls can't ever get past their misogynistic illness.
No one ever calls them on it. I mean we women write about it in blogs
but no one, not even women in charge who have power, really take on the heads of these organizations and gives them hell about the dreadful
way women are treated in the mainstream media/press.

Has this from Politico been posted yet?

June 12, 2008
Categories: Barack Obama

Obama moves DNC operations to Chicago

In a major shakeup at the Democratic National Committee -- and a departure from tradition -- large parts of the committee's operations are relocating to Chicago to be fully integrated with the Obama campaign.

The DNC's political department, housed in Washington, D.C., will be dramatically rebuilt, with staffers offered a choice of moving to Chicago, joining state operations, or staying in Washington, DNC spokeswoman Karen Finney said.

But the power will clearly be shifting to a centralized Chicago hub.

The DNC's key role in coordinating political operations with state parties is expected to largely be taken over and overseen by Obama's senior staff in Chicago, state party officials said.

Yay! All the cool people are here! Thank you for the all the lovely birthday wishes. I'm already feeling free of my forty's angst and ready for rebellion. I promise to do good works, always. And stock up on Advil and prunes.

Thanks, Julie

"Obama moves DNC operations to Chicago"

Now if that doesn't put fear and consternation in the hearts of many I don't know what will.

Ladies,

I am 30...what do I need to say? 30 is the new twenty? LOL......
Happy 50 Alicia....think back, reflect but most of all look ahead......

Happy Firiday the 13th all
Seen as my name is Jason...I am the villain today....:))

Quote of the day, in honor of Alicia's 50th birthday...

The heyday of woman's life is the shady side of fifty
--Elizabeth Cady Stanton

8~)

I have to be honest.

You guys know what the scariest thing is to me?

That you keep on watching these people after all the months you are criticizing them... I mean, I loved CNN, But after the way they treated HRC, I was stunned and have never ever looked at CNN coverage anymore, even the internet website I banned. It took some good kick off medicines, but it worked.
Stop watching people....Start reading and doing different stuff. These peeps stay on, because we keep wachting them....

McCain is starting to sound exactly like Floyd R. Turbo.......

http://chronicle.augusta.com/images/headlines/012405/42930_512.jpg

Jason.....exactly.....nail on head dept.......Quit watching those bastards.

Alicia

Happy Birthday,

The wonderful Judity Viorst has written a series of books on the decades in a woman's life. She started with, "How Did I Get To Be 40 and Other Atrocities" which is split your sides funny.

You might like, "Forever Fifty and Other Negotiations"

http://www.amazon.com/FOREVER-FIFTY-Judith-Viorst/dp/B0002X1JK0/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213359254&sr=1-15

Happy Birthday Alicia.

Yep , Rainy days and advil

Jack

more quotes...

In politics, if you want anything said, ask a man - if you want anything done, ask a woman.
--Margaret Thatcher

A man's got to do what a man's got to do. A woman must do what he can't.
--Rhonda Hansome

A woman's rule of thumb: if it has tires or testicles, you're going to have trouble with it.
--Unknown

http://www.c-boom.com/women_humor.htm

Jason...
I gave up watching all that crap months ago..... and it feels great!

Alicia.... a good margarita every now and then helps too....

Patsi..... Obama moving DNC operations to Chicago..... that freaks me out...
I've basically ignored all the comparisons of him to GWB..... but maybe I need to rethink that stance....

Rindell said he's definitely out.

Obama’s Long Short List
“Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland (D) was Shermanesque on Tuesday in saying that he would ‘absolutely not’ be Sen. Barack Obama’s, D-Ill., running mate even if asked to join the Democratic ticket. Asked on NPR’s ‘All Things Considered’ if he is auditioning to be Obama’s running mate, Strickland said, “Absolutely not. If drafted I will not run, nominated I will not accept and if elected I will not serve. So, I don’t know how more crystal clear I can be.’ ”
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/10/obamas-long-short-list/?scp=2&sq=jim%20johnson&st=cse

Flatus, how far are we willing to go in our effort to legislate civil rights with regard to race.? At some point we have to get beyond it without the crutch of law. A post racial candidate will be defined by the lack of law not the need of it. I think Obama is right on this one if he was refering to inititives based on race neutrality as the article implies.

"Happy Firiday the 13th all
Seen as my name is Jason...I am the villain today....:))"

Ha! I would have missed that connection! Thanks -- and we love you even if you are a slasher!

(Is that what Jason was? I hopestly haven't see Friday 13th....am a big fan of horror flicks, but not the slasher ones.)

I love stuff like C.H.U.D. and Tremors. Best line from Tremors, spoken by Reba McEntire's survivalist husband when the big worms crash through the wall of his basement to find him and fifty seven automatic rifles:

"You broke into the wrong damn rec room this time!"

Corey, Chris had a beautiful smile.

Here is the link to the NY Times article on sexism

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/us/politics/13women.html?hp

From there you can link to their blog "The Caucus" to discuss the issue.

Prof Marcia,

It matters if a man is a 'womanizer' in the Midwest and South. It matters to Evangelicals, too.

One of the reasons D. James Kennedy said he'd rather die than vote for mccain, was the latter's adulteries.

I'm have to scramble this morning, but I came in to quickly read Craig's post. Don't have time until later to read everyones post, but going down the list, I saw Prof. Marcia back. Good. Didn't see her yesterday.

I woke this morning thinking that this ‘election experience’ and all that it entailed can be viewed by some as confirming the saying “The truth can set you free”.
The misogyny (don't remember hearing that word much before Elton John used it to describe America in relation to Hillary)
or sexism, whatever you prefer to call it, was so much in our face this time, so obvious, so cruel, so uncalled for, so ugly --that we had NO CHOICE but to notice how offensive it is. It was there all along, but a lot of us didn't much notice it.

Even as bad as it was before this election, we have been so desensitized, because it is so normal. Worse yet, some of us believed what they were saying to be true. This election just made it a lot clearer. Seeing all that hate and condescension focused on 'one' woman. Many of us identified with her. We became her. In doing so, it was us being slammed.

In behavioral psychology, some women are like the elephant that is chained to a post and she doesn't understand she is strong enough to break the chain. So she stands there, not defying what she thinks to be reality. No one wants her to know the truth, and uninstructed, the elephant never challenges her limitations.

So now , in that sense, I finally truly understand the meaning of "'The truth can set you free". And that made the experience a positive one, ironically. Because I think the ones of us that were most offended by what we saw during this election, were the ones who feared (before this election), that all those lies and jokes and slams thrown out by those who want to belittle women and keep them in "their place" were true.

Have a good day! gotta go.

"I've basically ignored all the comparisons of him to GWB..... but maybe I need to rethink that stance...."

Renee -- I've certainly made those comparisons, but in the beginning I think it had to do with blind worship of the supporters of both, plus the quickness of those supporters to get really ugly. But then I started to see some of the same egocentric arrogance. I don't know...I have serious problems with both choices this time out. And to say that Obama's deep connections to telecommunications are worrisome is an understatement.

It is ironic that forty years ago I wrote in a presidential vote because of Chicago politics, and am now doing same.

You’re Still Not Listening!

"WomenCount.Org has had it. And they are determined to keep their voices relevant and loud. In fact they have made a decision. They will not rest until they hear from the Democratic party and its nominee about how they will: (see list)

Here is a sneak preview of their next ad that may be out on Monday.

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/06/13/youre-still-not-listening/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091080/

My favourite part......

Colleagues came in today and brought me nice flowers. They said: " to keep me calm..."
I laughed for an hour.......
Then they said, well, if you do not want them for this very special Friday the 13th, keep them for your birthday next month....LOL

Clinton supporters for McCain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7S2-AQx-TM

The media still doesn't get it. First, the commentators are now trying to twist concerns about sexism into the idea that woman are blaming sexism entirely on Hillary's loss. That is complete bull.

Mika was particularly obtuse about it this morning -- or else she's purposefully distorting. (I'm just sayin'....)

Second, this is about much more than Hillary Clinton's campaign. Chloe's comments above are on target. It became about women in general and the realization of just how ingrained sexism is. I recently read a perfect quote about what we've learned: "Racist jokes will get you fired. Sexist jokes will get you laughs."

By the way, did anyone catch when Mika asked Barnacle, "Should I read your quote again?" And when he started sputtering, Harold Ford jumped in and said, "Here, I'll read it!"

ROFL!

"speaking of Mika....what is with the clothes...can't stand her unprofessional wardrobe...these talking heads need to wear something like a suit....like Couric or Kyra Phillips":

"That whole MoJo crowd just gets on my nerves. Mika is so prissy and irritating especially the way she's always making those noises when Joe is talking. Mika wouldn't know sexism if it bit her on her skinny rear-end."

Let me if I have this right. It's not sexism to talk about Mica being prissy and her skinny ass and to be critical of her clothes, or is it just sexism when the subject of the coverrsation ois running for President?

Let me be clear, I think Hillary treatment by the media (particularly, but not exclusively cable) was grossly unfair. But are the comments here directed at people on the "other side" any less unfair when they are directed at appearance and mannerisms and not at the substance of their opinons or what they said?

Well, Tim....I agree that we should keep sexism out of the Mika conversation. Therefore I will just call her a dickhead.

What happened to the taylor marsh website?

I'm not quite sure how I feel about the DNC moving to Chicago. Even if Obama is elected and serves two terms, that is eight years. What happens then? Why do it now before the election. It just seems like another arrogant power move ... doing something just because you can get away with it, not because it is the right thing to do.

We are a coalition of millions with one thing in common: NObama

http://www.justsaynodeal.com/

I just heard that Rendell is a ladies man. Webb is on his third wife, Hong Le, who is 22 years younger. I met her at Linda Robb's Good Ol' Girls lunch (every fifth Sunday at the the Tyson's Corner Marriott -- good place to see VA politirati in a small group, low-cost setting, men are allowed to attend too). She was out campaigning with Jim during the primary season, wearing her Vietnamese traditional dress.There was a good reason for this - she was covering a baby bump, plus they were going to campaign in the Vietnamese community nearby. She looked about 12 years old. I was surprised that she was Mrs. Webb. It was during primary season and Webb's opponent was working the room. Webb came in and sat at our table, the only one with two empty seats. He didn't get up and walk around. His wife hardly spoke. When I first met her, I didn't even know she spoke English since she seemed to not follow the conversation, just smiled and nodded. Later on, when Webb was accused of being a chauvinist who feared strong women, she came out swinging, posting an Internet video in which she revealed she was securities lawyer, and that in one year she got married, lost her mother to cancer, moved to a new home in Virginia, started a new job, and found out she was pregnant, with her husband running for the Senate. Wow, I thought, no wonder why he came to lunch and said nothing. She was probably in her first trimester and feeling lousy on top of everything else. Hong Le Webb is way up there on my respect meter.

The other thing about Webb is that he's on really good terms with his previous wives -- they even came to his campaign events. He still can't be VP though -- we need to keep him here in VA.

Here's the direct link to the Politico article

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/11045.html

Patsi...LOL on Mika comment. You're definitely my type.

Hope everyone's doing well. I was thrilled this morning to read about the Supreme Court decision on Gitmo, etc. Isn't it great to think we finally might be getting our country and constitution back? Of course, the ominous clouds were that the dissenters included the four justices unlikely to go anywhere anytime soon -- Roberts, Alito, Scalia and Thomas. God, if for no other reason we need a Dem prez so the other five can quit and be replaced by five two-year-olds who happen to be liberal!

Excellent post, Chloe.

mornin' all.

Jason - it's there. She's not putting up long narratives, but she's there.

Tim, the folks here have criticized Scarborough and Carlson's on air appearance as well. And there is copious criticism of Mika's opinions.

Alicia, happy birthday - 50's not so bad - it's just a day more than 49 364/365. Well, OK, I'm lying, but it's a great excuse for a day of unbridled excess.

Taylor Marsh has been hacked. Her web person needs to get on the stick and throw the bums out.

Tim,
Hang around you're figure it out.

Around here with many it's "do as i say not as I do"

Jason.....exactly.....nail on head dept.......Quit watching those bastards.
Posted by: sturgeone | June 13, 2008 8:19 AM

and tell them and their sponsors that you've also stopped buying their products.

felicitas alicia!

Good morning everyone.
Alicia ... although I am a relative stranger, permit me to wish you a very happy birthday. Is it today?
If so, you share the birthdate of the most brilliant woman I ever knew ... my mother. From your postings, I would venture to guess you are equally brilliant.

Kudos to Alicia this am for pointing out the attacks on Michelle.
I'm actually surprised!

Flatus, you are right in principIe but I don't know how you can legislate an end to institutional racism. Saying the government cannot use preferances to mitigate against discriminatory practices is important but does nothing to eliminate discriminatory practices. The schools will still have an ethnic bias, Realtors will still redline, courts will continue to sentance unfairly, jobs will stay out of reach, and institutional racism will proceed unimpeded.
Arizona in particular has a large indian population that is segregated by historical circumstance and choice. There are often preferances for indians for reservation positions; these are based on economic need.
I just distrust the motives of such initiatives.

Rez....I almost think I'm hallucinating when I read the stories about "terrorist fist bump" and "Baby Mama"

I just keep checking back to the front page to double-check that I am indeed reading the NYTimes and not the Onion. It's unreal.

Lardass: Not much hope about Thomas, Roberts, and Alito, but Scalia is no spring chicken ... in addition to which he apparently enjoys going on hunting trips with VP Cheney ... a risky business at best.

Also...just the whole idea that the "fist bump" got so much attention to begin with is a testament to how lame and out of touch the media are.

For the record, I have "fist-bumped" for years with my 81-year-old golf buddy whenever one of us makes a par. That's how "exotic" the gesture is to me.

Does anyone else find the relocation of the DNC major operations to Chicago at least a bit problematic?

Mags...excellent point on Scalia. I forgot about that. I think he might have been on the trip with Cheney where they killed some ungodly number of birds, now that you mention it.

LL, 'zactly.

Lardass: That's because the VP prefers to do his hunting at private game preserves where the birds are held and then released ... sort of like shooting clay pigeons.

Pogo, Maggs...those are "al Queda birds" and don't you ever forget that!

Anyway...just reading the SCOTUS stories today and the excerpts from Kennedy's awesome opinion made me feel proud of our system of government again. That ridiculous Cheney aide David Addington actually poached on the prerogative of the highest court in the land when he single-handedly rewrote the Constitution. The idea that it was EVER tolerated or "normalized" is just outrageous and amazing.

Flatus: With regard to the article you posted, are you familiar with Ward Connerly? He is a biracial man who disagrees with affirmative action to the degree that he has made his life's work out of generating ballot initiatives in a number of states (including California) requiring the elimination of anything that remotely resembles affirmative action. He even believes that statistical information (census data, school performance, mortgage lending, etc) whould not include racial, ethnic, or gender information.

Okay...enough LL opinions for one sitting. Gotta run, catchya later and keep up the great thread.

The Gitmo decision overturns much of what mccain did in 2006. warner, mccain, and lindsey graham cobbled the Act together and finally got the Lunatic in Chief to accept it, after months of nagging.

Btw, how much does the Vice Usurper have to drink to mistake his buddies for fowl? he and scalia shoot ducks. Can cheney hallucinate ducks, or is it always pheasants?

Lardass: Kennedy's opinion in this case might be awesome ... but it does not excuse him one iota for the insulting and paternalistic opinion he wrote for Carhart v Gonzales.

Just went to catch up on yesterday's posts - Patsi, thanks for the words about my mom. I like to think you were right.

Maggs, you are right about the WM working class vote -Reagan appealed to their patriotism and prejudices and they haven't been back - at least not in the south and midwest. I'm hoping they might return to the Dem party and vote their best interests instead of following all those impulses the messiah said drives the votes of the clingers.

xrepublican: So long as he doesn't start hallucinating peasants, perhaps we downscale types are safe.

What I find interesting about Cheney is that, given his background, his biography, and the good sense he demonstrated in his earlier government service, one wants to ask, "What the hell happened to him?"

Pogo: I expect to see a lot of split-ticket voting in certain areas of the country. A lot of down-ticket voting for Dems in unlikely places ... with the possible exception of Louisiana ... along with voting for McCain at the top of the ticket.
I can't now see a path for McCain to win overall, unless there is a major turnaround, but one never knows.

Interesting article on how economics and class effect living patterns and learning.

Learning The Rules

http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2008/06/09/your_family/061008poverty.txt

Webb is on his third wife

Makes McCain look like a piker. He is on good terms with his first wife too.

Katherine: More problematic for Webb might be the speeches and articles he has written in defense of the Confederacy. They primarily consist of a defense of the ordinary Confederate soldier, but it is my observation that certain segments of our society still do not find such sentiments acceptable.

Alicia, if someone wants to make her crazy, all they need do is speak broken English to our daughter. Big mistake.

I've never spoken anything other than standard English to anyone from overseas. They appreciate it more than most people know.

I really do think that Sen Obama and his surrogates need to be careful about how they portray Sen McCain -- the too-obvious repetition of "ageist" talking points, or attempts to diminish his service might just backfire, if the public begins to perceive that they are sliming him in the same manner that the Clintons were slimed.

"It just seems like another arrogant power move ... doing something just because you can get away with it, not because it is the right thing to do."

Jamie..... that statement encapsulates why I'm rethinking the Obama comparisons to GWB....

Tim.... the statements about Mika's clothes made me uncomfortable too....
I've watched the show only when Craig is on.... but if memory serves me correctly..... haven't they all opted for a more casual look.... sooooooo....

Lardass..... Rick and I went to bed after the first half of the Celtics/Lakers game last night...... BIG mistake..... I almost choked when I went to the Celtics website this morning to see what the final score was..... for a Celtics fan that must have been one wild second half!

Flatus: Do people still do that? Speak broken English to immigrants? What planet are these people from?

Sure, if you go overboard in defending yourself you will land in the realm of hate. That is the lesson of the ADL and misogyny.

Renee: Indeed it was. A wild second half, I mean.

Renee: Not a good day for LA all the way around. The Dodgers lost to the SD Padres 9-0 earlier in the day ... and the Padres appear to have forgotten how to play baseball entirely this year.

Consumer Sentiment at 28 yr. low

Dow Up 147 points

Will Obama be able to unify Wall Street and Main Street?

I just got done unsubscribing to all my DNC, DSCC, DCCC, etc. felt good!
happy day Alicia!
Patsi, love your 9:14 post.
Wes Clark for VP! but I still wont vote for BHO.
too bad Ron Paul got out.

just say no to BHO

Renee, it was a great second half - for Celtics fans. I suspect that Larry, Robert, Danny and Kevin were smiling as broadly as Doc, KG & Paul.

Maggi,

Thanks for jumping in. I didn't know of Connerly or his work until this morning. I suppose that makes me ignorant, which is fine, I don't mind that term if it accurately reflects my state.

It's a terrible conundrum--how to untangle the racial morass we're in. It seems, to me, that every time we legislate a solution we end up with a bunch of unintended consequences.

Here, in South Carolina, the NAACP has tried to gain traction for a boycott because of battle flag issues. I don't think they've been effective in their effort.

We deliberately chose our neighborhood when we moved here because it has a fine racial mix. And, people in the neighborhood enjoy each others' company. Surely, that's positive. And, so far as I know, every one of our neighbors with kids ready to enter college is able to have them placed in good institutions despite race.

But if you go to the other side of town, it's like stepping back to the '50s.

I think non-violent acts protesting discriminatory practices are certainly appropriate. And have the potential of being more effective than legislation.

But, as I tried to convey, I really am ignorant of so many things in this area. Spending so many years in the military spoiled me--we were in so many ways post-racial.

NelsonDecker: With regard to General Clark. I consider myself to be a Wesley Clark admirer, but I was disappointed with the OpEd he wrote and the sentiments he expressed on MoJo this morning. It seemed to come down to the notion that because Sen McCain served 20 years without being promoted to flag rank, his claims to military expertise were worthless. In the course of the discussion General Clark cheerfully repeated all his own promotions and positions -- including the fact that he himself came home from Vietnam on a stretcher ... as if Sen McCain's ability to hobble off the plane under his own steam was somehow a disqualifying factor.
Let's just say that I was disappointed in the tenor of Genl Clark's remarks. I do not see why it is necessary to denigrate Sen McCain's military and governmental expertise in order to promote ... well, I'm not sure if he was promoting Sen Obama or himself.

maggi...
I just started watching basketball..... still can't figure out why some things are fouls and some are not..... and being from Massachusetts and now living in NH, or course, I'm for the Celtics

I've been a long time Red Sox and Patriots fan..... it's been a fun ride for the last 5 yrs..... I'm enjoying it while it lasts.... I know it won't forever.....

my beloved Red Sox are in first place for the AL East....

I LOVE the surprise of the Tampa Bay Rays this year.....
I think it's good for baseball to see a team that's done so poorly perform so well.... even if they beat out my team..... if they make it to the World Series, I'm gonna root my ass off for them.....

Flatus -- I know people do that all the time -- speak in broken English to ethnic-looking people. I have a friend who is Mexican by heritage -- but her family has been int he US for many generations. She says that people keep trying to speak Spanglish to them. So she acts like she doesn't know a lick English just to get a rise out of such folks. Truth is -- she doesn't speak any Spanish at all, never learned it.

Another friend had deaf parents. Her father was pulled over by a cop who wanted to write him a ticket for speeding. Although he could read lips perfectly, he pretended not to understand what the cop was saying. Finally the cop got a piece of paper and wrote,"Can you read?" Her father took the paper and wrote "no." Flummoxed , the cop just let him go.

Here's Krugman's eco-politics for today. I caught him on the tube day before yesterday opposite a conservative economist, talking about the current economic climate and conditions, and he basically ate the other guy alive.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/opinion/13krugman.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

maggi, i see your point. maybe he was tooting his own horn a bit to much!
I was the head of our regional Clark04 commitee- I am a tad biased.
sorry

More good economic news - not.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/14/business/14econ.html?hp

Flatus: Your observation about the military is correct ... and I think that association with the military does blind some of us to what others may experience. I think, for instance, that someone visiting my community might think that there was no current need for Affirmative Action. On the other hand, someone visiting the Mississippi Delta or rural Arkansas (for instance) would, I think, be appalled at the racial and economic circumstances that obtain in those places.
Solutions are far from simple ... I do not, for instance, think that the mere example of Sen Obama's electoral success will do much of anything ... but I am heartened by the fact that so many young people find his candidacy appealing, no matter how naive I find them to be. Obviously they are coming from a different place than their elders, and that is all to the good.

Renee: I have been watching basketball for more than 40 years and I still don't understand all the fouls ...

Great link pogo, his critique of Milton Friedman trusting lawyers is too beautiful. Thanks.

NelsonDecker: Genl Clark was my candidate of choice in the early going in 2004 as well. I guess that's why I found today's performance so disappointing.
Of course, there is that ever-present tension between the Navy and the Army, as well as between fliers and ground troops ... and, of course, between Republicans and Democrats.

Good for you Nelson
Join the club of former DNC-ers

Renee and Maggis....SHAME ON YOU fdor not knowing the fouls...I can give you a quick free lesson.....

I was watchng the soccer match between Italy and the Netherlands three days ago as part of European Championship. I could swear the first goal was offside...but the again I am stupid with regard to soccer..... **big sigh**

Anyone who's been around here long knows that I'm no fan of McCain, but Wesley Clark should be ashamed of his marginalization of McCain's advancing only to the rank of Captain while in the Navy. Between his captivity and rehab, he lost over 6 years of his service life and time that would normally be spent by an ambitious young officer sucking up and advancing through the ranks. There is a lot to criticize McCain for, but lack of military expertise is not one of the things that is legitimate IMO. Being a hawk in spite of that knowledge is, though.

Jason: As a long-time basketball fan, I can tell you that I am hopeless. Technically, I know what the fouls are ... but why they are called when they are called frequently eludes me. And I'm certain you know what I mean.

Has anyone checked out this site ?

http://thenaturaltruth.blogspot.com/

Interesting take on things.....

Alicia - adding to the wealth of birthday wishes here-enjoy your day.

Pogo-it may have been Ben Stein who was the conservative counter-point to Paul Krugman on Larry King.

As far as today's NYT above the fold article "Critics & News Executives Split over Sexism in Clinton Coverage"--- a self-serving collection of excuses by those who spewed their venom on a regular basis--suggesting that it was Clinton's fault--she brought the coverage upon herself.

Some of the comments were laughable & shameful: Howard Dean saying the media took a very sexist approach to her campaign & "it's pretty appalling".

The best (more appropriately the Worst Person award)
to none other than Keith Olbermann stating that any
suggestion that msnbc 'was somehow out to get"
Clinton is 'false & unfair. We became a whipping boy.'
& the most comical---'I must say there was constant
good faith in trying to make certain Sen. Clinton was not
treated unfairly.'

Jason, shame on you for not knowing an offside call not made. I can give you a lesson. The player has to be offside when the ball is advanced, and he (or she) has to receive it or gain an advantage. (Sounds clear doesn't it?) The real rule is "It ain't offside unless the ref calls it offside, and it is if he does." Same with fouls in basketball. Six years and counting of criticizing and second guessing refs from the sidelines over calls for and against LP's teams has taught me that rule. :))

agreed, mccain should never be disrespected. he may be a repub. but he certainly gave more than his share.

Pogo: The point I was attempting to make (too long-winded as usual) is that the Dems need to be a little more careful in how they "attack" Sen McCain.
The Obama campaign may have gotten away with the methodical destruction of the Clintons (with way too much help from the media), but I think that a second attempt to demonize an otherwise-sympathetic character may have the opposite effect.
Old people vote, military families vote ... in large numbers. And, although some people may find it amusing to denigrate the character of the opposing candidate, a lot of people -- particularly independent voters -- don't care for that type of thing.

Coreen, you are right - it was Ben Stein. He was in a difficult position considering the dismal economy the practices he was defending have seemed to have wrought under the guidance of Bushco.

Speaking of sports ... I gotta go and do some chores so I can watch the US Open in all its glory.
If any of you decide to watch, you can see the most beautiful bits of America's Finest City...

maggs, I completely agree with that. But Dems learn lessons the hard way, don't we?

Nelson, McCain shouldn't be disrepected - but his positions should be challenged relentlessly.

LOL

Pogo, I challenge you to check the first goal from Netherlands - Italy!...... I am still puzzled.....

But anyways peopel.
Have a very nice weekend...I will be here Sunday because I have a hard ECB deadline that I need to tackle

Stay good and helathy

Jason from Friday the 13th is saluting... keep your eyez on the road...beware of black cats today, cause in all of us lies a lil bit of Jason!

LMPO...Stop me

Ciao all.......

Bye, Jason - If I can check it out, I will, but the rule applies -

Maggi, related to your comments about the efforts
of the Obama campaign (&/or its cohorts) to define McCain--I believe the side that first effectively defines the other negatively will ultimately win.

The assault on McCain as to both his age & the whispering about his military past is just starting, it remains to be seen if the msm advances it or not--- I suspect in subtle ways they will.

The efforts this week by the MSM to set up the boundaries of coverage, as MODO & others did, to insulate Michelle Obama & by extension Sen. Obama from any examination that Obama, Inc. considers to be negative, is just the beginning.

The quick response by team obama with regard of the "obama baby mama" chyron on FOX yesterday, which resulted in an apology, serves as a good illustration of how the media is going to set the limits.
Far diffierent from the coverage of Clinton.

I heard FOX talk about it yesterday but did not notice they had it on the screen.

This site shows a clear picture of it.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/06/obamas_baby_mama/

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080613/ap_en_ot/tv_huckabee_fox_news

Jason, can't find vid, but you aren't the only onw who thought it was offside.

"The first clear indication of the extent to which the Italians would miss Cannavaro came after quarter of an hour, when van Nistelrooy got in behind Materazzi only to be let down by a heavy first touch as he attempted to go round Buffon.

"Materazzi made partial amends by heading Sneijder's free-kick from the left over his own bar. But there was no such let-off for the Italians when Rafael van der Vart swung in a similar delivery from the opposite flank minutes later.

"Van the man strikes
Buffon could only the palm the ball away at his back post and when the ball was rolled back to Sneijder the midfielder unleashed a fierce low drive that van Nistelrooy turned into the net from four yards out.

"The ensuing protests saw Luca Toni booked for protesting that the Dutch striker was offside."

It's been awhile but now Michelle's Thesis is getting some noise.

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/06/13/michelle-obama-off-tape/

Obama named Jason Furman his new economic adviser. Furman was one who defended Wal Mart as the poor mans store. One of the Labor unions yesterday opposed Furman saying he was more for Corporations than he was for the working man. He was also a Clinton cabinet member. Nothing new about him.
Cannot find the Labor union article, perhaps some of you computer savvy can find it, if interested.
Julie

An indication of why Bushco rejects with our enemies - it can't successfully negotiate with our "friends".

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/14/world/middleeast/14iraq.html?hp

problem is, that if BHO Inc. and the media wants to set guidelines and boundaries it has to work both ways. i have already heard remarks from the candidate for change and ending negativity that sound to me like personal attacks on mccain.
and this grand denial from k.olberman, c.matthews, etc. that there was no sexism or gender bias isn't going to fly with Clinton supporters. its just another insult.
it will be interesting this time around.....lets see what changes.

"Webb is on his third wife
Makes McCain look like a piker. He is on good terms with his first wife too."

Ha...I'm on good terms with my ex as well. Hell, I'm the one who talked him into proposing to his second wife. When he was waffling about it, I told him to come over to my house and bring a bottle of scotch. Then I told him if he lost her he'd be losing the second best thing he ever had. He proposed the next day (with a hangover one presumes) and she sent me flowers.

Dog -- your post is hilarious. It reminds me of Rush Limbaugh's tactics...always asking for specifics when people have heard this on television day in day out.

It's call a dodge, dog.

"I beg out of critiquing anything that appeared on MSNBC or cable news. Do not watch the stuff and do not plan to start."

And I beg out of critiquing Salem in any study of witch hunts.

Michelle Obama Off Tape

"Are these the long-awaited excerpts from Michelle Obama’s “whitey” rant? No, these gems of racial “tolerance” come from her Princeton thesis. ...we believe an analysis of Michelle Obama’s public statements and writings offer plenty of material to understand her views on race ...

Stokely Carmichael guided Michelle Obama’s thesis on race? This is very important.

In other words, the Obamas were active participants in a black separatist church, a church which explicitly emphasized skin color over salvation, heritage over faith, one group of people instead of the universality of spiritual needs."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/06/13/michelle-obama-off-tape/

Patsi
It is even worse than that.
Half what Dog asks for has been posted here so many times she probably knows the links herself. At this point in her denial why bother.

Jack

Hey, “Hannah”, Why don’t you try a site that’s not a blog. Bloggers (as with this site) say anything.
“Interesting take on things.....”

Get the real truth:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/fightthesmearshome/

AND, I absolutely LOVE MSNBC. You people probably watch Faux “News”.

Just a thought.
Gordos post brings up a question. How many of you have words out there that you hope never come to life? I know I have a few. Both college papers and many hours of use net discussion where sometimes I took either side of a discussion. Exploring ideas are fun but for me championing them are much less so.
Lunch is over back to work. I've got to finish wiring a house.
Jack

"Katherine: More problematic for Webb might be the speeches and articles he has written in defense of the Confederacy."

Yikes! I'd say, My brother lived in Atlanta for a few years and he used to shake his head at the reenactors -- "No matter how many times you do it over...you are still going to lose."

We both thought the best new flag design for Georgia was a White Peach sitting on a Ritz Cracker. (white background of course)

Maybe it 's part of the Obama southern strategy.

Tucker Carlson is posting on trailmix.

Posted by: Karolenna | June 13, 2008 12:18 PM

Come on Tucker, post under your real name. Or is that you KO? David Shuster?

crap!.... Jason's left.... I wanted to tell him that being a big teaser myself, I knew he was only teasing on that "shame on me" for not knowing fouls....

so let me ask the basketball fans still here..... exactly what is a technical foul?..... so far, I've figured it's when someone mouths off to an official.... but is there more to it?.....

and how many fouls can a player commit before he's thrown out of the game?

yes..... I really am a newby at this game.....

“While Clinton-backers push to get Obama to put her on the ticket, a new poll reveals the depths of antipathy toward her in some circles. Nearly a third of independents strongly dislike Clinton, according to an Associated Press / Yahoo News poll, while 67 percent of Republicans have a very unfavorable view of her.”

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06102008/news/nationalnews/hillarys_a_home_girl_in_wchester_114857.htm

What I’ve been saying all along. I know many, many Republicans and Independents who are supporting Obama. I say Jim Webb, Ed Rendell, Strickland (I know he says he won’t but I don’t believe it) or even Bloomberg.

"I beg out of critiquing anything that appeared on MSNBC or cable news. Do not watch the stuff and do not plan to start."

And I beg out of critiquing Salem in any study of witch hunts.

score one for Patsi!

We are all responsible for what we say & write...including MO. Did Hil'ry get a pass on her "baking cookies" remark during Bill's first run? Nope.

The thought police only get cha if you put it out there. If it's something you'd be ashamed of (or would suffer negative consequences from) if someone else heard/read it, maybe you should use the self-edit button.

Patsi,

Dickhead might be too gender specific. Let's just use asshole. :->

hey, is there a way to indicate "puke" on a blog?

Understand what the public discussion of MO's Princeton thesis is leading to? The groundwork for the MO video (s) has been completed, now MO's past views on race are being examined. This all appears to be part of a sophisticated roll-out.

its the rule
no tucker carlson, no keith olberman allowed
msnbc makes me barf

Oh, but Fluffy Carlson is the master of hyperbole. It's impossible for me to ever, ever ever take anything at all he ever says seriously. I absolutely, always say that all the time. (Once I picked up on all of his fave words, he stopped bothering me.)

KO, on the other hand, is such a hypocrit. Doesn't vote because he's a journalist? Please! He has an electronic soap box (for anyone who can still stand to hear his yammering, eloquent though it may be) to spin stories any way he sees fit.

At first, he called BillO out on issues, then he started mocking him, but, when he started to channel BillO, I quit watching the show; I still put up with him during primary coverage.

It's "Let's Bash Hillary Day on MoJo."
Posted by: Alicia Knight

What else is new? Joe seemed to be on Hillary's side for a while which just got him exiled, but in general it is always a bash-fest over there. I agree about Mika's constant interrupting -- drives me crazy so I have stopped watching.

I am torn about this VP thing. I think HRC should stay as far away from it as possible -- why does she want to be part of a losing ticket? On the other hand, she is the one out of all the potentials who actually got 18 million votes and has a power base -- why is he just dumping her in with the others? I don't want her to take it, but I feel she should at least be RESPECTFULLY asked.

Exactly, Cat, she doesn't need to play John Edwards to BO's John Kerrey. The writing is on the wall; the DNC seems to be illiterate.

Happy Birthday to Alicia!
Have a great weekend everyone!

Renee, re: fouls, depends on the level of play - in the NBA and WNBA you get 6 fouls - it's 5 in college and below. A technical foul is often for mouthing at the officials, although there are some other things players and coaches can do to offend the refs enough to charge a T. Here's more than you wanted to know.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_12.html?nav=ArticleList

and even more

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_foul

The new democratic party.

Chicago, Soros,Axelrod,Dean,Obama

Need anything else be said ?

"AND, I absolutely LOVE MSNBC"

I'm sure you do, Karo. Any port in the Clinton-hating storm. You know, your posts have been very nearly pathological when referring to Hillary Clinton. Back when the Bush crowd was speaking in much the same terms about most Democrats, I thought that Republicans who were not insane must be embarrassed to death. Now I'm seeing that same element in the Democratic party. And yes, I'm embarrassed to death.

By the way, I'm one supporter who doesn't want her on the ticket.

I'm not a big fan of David Brooks, in fact I seldom get past the second paragraph of his column. But he does represent a sort of centrist conservative viewpoint that stands scrutiny, if for no reason other than anticipating weak spots for Obama to address in the campaign that might otherwise be pointed out and exploited by Ol' John. This points out one such area.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/opinion/13brooks.html?hp

Now I don't know that Brooks hasn't cherrypicked this issue, and I accordingly can't say I agree with his take on it, but it does, at least facially, appear that there's more ambiguity on O's policy position than can be easily explained away.

This type of stuff is where the rubber will hit the road as they say in the tire biz.

Hey G-man and your sidekick daryl,

What a novel idea for her to bring up issues of race, including the use of historical figures, and some of her personal feelings at the time as a student at Princeton when writing a thesis titled:

"Princeton-Educated Blacks and the Black Community"

Who'd of thunk that!

And I'm humored by blue's two wrongs make it right theory.

Patsi, and I'm a second one.

third here

Karolenna, I hope you continue to aim your dislike for demcratic candidates at Hillary - should help BO in the fall. I expect you'll do that until BO chooses someone else for the VP slot?

Rez, you don't qualify - there's a threshold issue.

picky, picky,

you must be a lawyer lol

Flatus

"I really am ignorant of so many things in this area. Spending so many years in the military spoiled me--we were in so many ways post-racial."

I know what you mean about the military. If only the outside world could work as well when it comes to racial harmony. When I pick up my grandson from his after school youth center, it looks like the United Nations in miniature. I don't think the children miss a single ethnicity or spectrum of shades.

I can't say too much about Michelle's thesis because you could misrepresent my graduate paper by saying I blamed America for the Holocaust. The title was Accessory Before the Fact: America's Role in the Evian Conference on the Refugee Crisis.

I proposed that in 1938, when America and most Western counties refused to take in the Jewish refugees, Hitler believed that no one would have much to say about his Final Solution. He was right.

When there was a full load of dems running against each other they had to be careful not to knock each other to much but now the game has changed. Anthing goes. So all that old stuff that was brought up will resurface again. Some of it already has in ads. Michelle is free game and so is Cindy.

i don't think HRC should take the veep spot either. i feel it would be another insult. 'be a good little lady and you can sit next to me'...but, thats just me.

oops, is my training showing? lol

Rezdog --------------------

Do you understand how MO's past and current statements on race can be used along with a MO video (s) to take BO down? Revs Wright, Meeks and Moss will help paint a picture of MO and BO that is unacceptable to most Americans.

Has anybody seen this one:

http://www.contrariancommentary.com/community/Home/tabid/36/mid/363/newsid363/216/Default.aspx

Julie and All,

Here is a recent news article with background on Jason Furman.

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2008/06/11/has-obama-fired-his-new-economic-adviser-yet.html

He is from the Brookings Institute, so you might want to check out their postions on issues.

http://www.brookings.edu/

i don't think HRC should take the veep spot either. i feel it would be another insult. 'be a good little lady and you can sit next to me'...but, thats just me.
Posted by: NelsonDecker

Yes, from his perspective it's like letting her live another day after torturing her for a few months with his indecision. She is really second to none, in my book, and should not take a back seat to anyone -- let alone him.

daryl,

Attack the candidate by arguing against their policy positions, character or past decisions but, in this case, don't attack the wife. You either have lame arguments or are a wuss or both. jmo

Patsi,

Sounds pretty deep to me and definitely unpatriotic. :)

Gordo,

What video?

Cat, Patsi et Al

My respect for Senator Clinton has only increased since the end of the campaign. All I want is to hear from her what she wants: Stay In Senate, VP, Cabinet, Supreme Court. If she wants it, she deserves to get it.

After reading the Scalia (political hack on the Supremes) disenting opinion of the Habeas Corpus ruling, the best thing that could happen to that body is Hillary Clinton, but only if she wants it since it seems a bit outside her "activist" role.

later all,

it's buffet time at the casino..

Jamie, I should think 90-pct of the country's lawyers are taking a long weekend in honor of habeas corpus.

What happened to the bump?

http://www.gallup.com/poll/107992/Gallup-Daily-Obama-46-McCain-43.aspx

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, ALICIA!!

It sounds like you had a good time, but dontcha hate the morning after, lol

When I turned 50, my kids threw me a surprise BD party .. i thought they were just taking me to dinner, but when I got there, alot of my immedidate family were there too .. we ate at Claddagh Irish Pub, delicious food & I hear they've added Irish Music since I was there last ... hmmm m aybe I can get them to take me again, soon .. lol

flatus, only the defense bar.

Who is this Andy Martin?

vad, could you give us a hint?

Oh wow, Linda ... those are sooo true, lol

Pogo, you sound like someone who's stuck at work. Sorry :)

I had the moving privilege of standing at the site of the abbey where the decision was made to force the Magna Carta on King John (the exquisite town of Bury St Edmunds in Suffolk).

As the British were locking-up IRA suspects indiscriminately, I thanked goodness that, in our country, Habeas Corpus was intact. Then came Guantanamo and the various rendition sites around the world.

I jumped for joy when the Supreme Court did the unexpected this week.

Flatus, I believe John McCain was there at the signing.

Hi Karolenna,

If you find the content questionable perhaps you should go elsewhere.

'you people' the people that post here are mostly like a family, they agree and disagree but its all in the interest of voicing opinions and sharing ideas on issues facing America and the world today. You could learn a lot from posts here, I know I do, regardless of if I agree with things said or not.

As citizen of the USA, I have the RIGHT to know everything about the "person" who will leader of this Great Nation!! This knowledge includes knowing who will have the close influance on his decitions and what they believe. Anyone who is/was married, know that your #1 advisor is your spouse! They shape your views in ways nobody else can! We as citizens have the RIGHT to know what these spouse believe, just as we have the right to know the beliefs of a Supreme Court or Cabinet appointee!

Yes, jeejee, he was standing right next to me.

“Karolenna, I hope you continue to aim your dislike for demcratic candidates at Hillary - should help BO in the fall. I expect you'll do that until BO chooses someone else for the VP slot?“

Hey, I’m not even against Obama picking Clinton as VP. I just look at polls and believe someone else could come through better for him. I’d say most on here are Repugs anyway the way you talk. Naturally, I don’t really know since I don’t read half of what is posted. Most Clinton supporters “on here” either won’t vote or will vote for McBush. Different day – same conservation. As I said, cut off your nose to spite your face just to “get even” with some people who wanted a candidate other than yours and, since this is America, we do have that prerogative. Thankfully, not all blogs are like this one.

I don’t even think Clinton wants the VP spot. Why would James Carville suggest Al Gore for the position with a little beefed up responsibility? If only he would accept!

Oh, Hannah, I know this is a private blog. But, it is on a public internet site, and I like to check in sometimes to see “if” anything has changed. NOT! You will be so blessed because I’ll be gone to the beach for two weeks with my family and then probably start working again after that. Hooray for the private board (ah, forgot…blog)!!!

On th vp madness: My record is perfect, perfectly wrong.

flatus, not for long.

Roberts' opinion that habeus corpus is essentially a procedural right tells me more about him than I really wanted to know, but what I thought was the case - the constitution be damned, the president gets to say what the law is. And Scalia has been trying to channel Rehnquist ever since Rhenquist quit the court to die. If he were about twice as intelligent as he actually is, he might one day be successful in that effort. I saw Charles Ogletree almost dismember Scalia in the PBS Ethics in America series back in the early 90s, and it was quite fun to watch. Scalia's intellectual dishonesty - driven by his conservative results-oriented arguments about the issues presented, made him a patsy to Ogletree.

That's funny, Flatus, and there's nothing wrong with your mind, right?

Happy Friday everyone,

Real world meetings (nuts and bolts gaffs and all) vs. Interent reports and sites (contrived, scripted and marketed)

I think the candidates kind of reflect the contrast above.

The winner will be the candidate that can suceed in both areas, or at least, the one who fails the least.

Sad November.

peace~

karolenna, you've certainly been accused of being a repug here,and I guess I assumed you are, or at least a Clinton hating indie. If I misread that, i apologize. I am interested in knowing which polls you've seen that suggest that some other vp choice would help Obama more than HRC in the general. And I am one who does not particularly want to seeHRC on the BO ticket - for a number of reasons, and I do want to see Obamaelectedin Nov.

Patsi, and I'm a second one.
Posted by: pogo | June 13, 2008 1:36 PM
third here
Posted by: Rezdog | June 13, 2008 1:39 PM
nelsendecker and catblu makes five and i'm sixth.

sounds like a good poker table.

Pogo, Roberts will only be there for 40-years, or so. Although I don't believe he'll change his spots, there can always be surprises amongst the others.

Long time ago I went down to Haslam's book store in St Pete. Forgot Bork was there for a signing. I managed to keep my mouth shut, but we did have a staring match as i passed by his signing table. I don't recall there being anybody in line.

My reaction to the Supreme Court decision is that I don't agree with it.

Not too many American citizens have been released on habeas corpus, I don't believe . As a practical matter, now each one of these guys will bring a separate petition through District Court, Court of Appeals, and then to the Supreme Court? Then what? I just don't agree with it. But then I didn't think they should have rounded up 400 children in Texas either. What do I know?

Pogo, & everyone, I would not like to see Hillary as #2 either, but I believe that he will not be able to win otherwise. I would feel more comfortable with her there, because I don't like him. He and his followers are acting just like the republicans before him, with their you're with-us or against-us attitude. That is not the way this country is supposed to work. People are supposed to be free to make their own decisions, or to speak their own minds & express their opinions, whether they agree with each other or not. But not anymore, not in this new Democratic party. They have lost touch with the basic founding principles of this country, & I'm not sure I trust them to find their way back to how it should be.

Pogo & Corey....
thanks for the explanation of the NBA rules.....

it sounds as if the rules are more like "guidelines"..... and the officials call fouls according to their own discretions.....

I don't want to see Hillary as Obama's VP either...... I want to see her back in the Senate fighting for issues she cares about.....

besides..... I really don't like the idea of 2 Senators on a ticket.....
Obama needs someone with military and executive experience, IMO....
I don't know who in the Democratic party fits that bill......

lizbeth, I disagree completely.

Here is a link that, to my non-lawyer mind, describes how Habeas Corpus relates to each of us:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/9/18/154635/318

"I don’t really know since I don’t read half of what is posted."

Well that's probably the problem karolenna..

If you aren't watching the news, Tim Russert has died suddenly at age 58

Tim Russert collapsed and died at work this afternoon. Age 58, of apparently a heart attack.

oh my god, did ya'll hear? tim russert is dead!

Happy Birthday Alicia.

I read the stuff about MoJo. I used to like Mica until one morning someone said something about being subservient and she said she loved being subservient. I thought, Oh gag me with a spoon.

TV just announced that Tim Russert collapsed and died.

i just walked in and saw it- i am in shock. so very sad.

Sorry for same post Jamie, guess we were both typing at same time

wish I could find that article of yesterday about the union opposing Furman, because it also broke down all the connections of Furman and why is not a good man for the position and is more conciliatory toward corporations and their agenda than he is for the working people..

flatus,Bork? God! Yep, I figure Roberts is stuck on conservative. He'll never be a Kennedy IMO, who took up the swing vote mantle after O'Connor retired. The court's been more or less balanced for a long time now, and with the likely retirement of Stevens and Ginsberg, that balance is in jeopardy.

liz, we'll disagree on the habeus issue. HC's availability serves as a check on the government indiscriminately detaining suspects without sufficient evidence that a crime was committed and they were somehow involved. Why, whether we're at war or not, and whether the detainee is one of our "enemies" should change the responsibility of the government to detain only persons against whom there is evidence of a crime having been committed is beyond me. As I understand it, the basis for challenging the detention was not affected, and all the decision did was move the forum from a military tribunal, which do not have the reputation for being the fairest places for our soldiers accused of crimes under the UCMJ much less for "enemy combatants", to the federal court system for review of the basis of the detention. With 2/3 of the federal bench having been appointed by republican presidents, I'm not so sure that the prisoner's chances of challenging their imprisonment is all that great anyway. The Hamdi decision is the one that I would think would piss off the folks who think we're giving too many rights to detainees in the waronterra.

jeejee,that's a valid viewpoint IMO,I just don't believe she would be given enough power in the position to serve as an effective buffer.

Tim Russert is dead? WOW

Lizbeth

Habeas Corpus is one of greatest of rights. It dates all the way to the middle ages in British law. In the US Constitution the only waivers are for it are in case of invasion of the country or armed insurrection within our borders (Lincoln waived habeas corpus during the Civil War and even that was criticized).

The Bush crowd tried to get around it by saying that Guantanamo was located in another sovereign nation even though we have had a lease with Cuba for the base for more than a century and have total control of the area. This is a very flawed logic since if it prevailed John McCain would not be able to run for the presidency as he was born on a Naval base in Panama.

So I am sad to read that Russert is dead, even though he was a total PRICK to Hillary.

Sorry to hear about Russert - this will be a great loss to the pundit class, whether you agreed with him most of the time or not.

Thanks for that link to the initial opposition to the McCain bill, flatus. And with that, I bid you all a good weekend.

What jamie said. Bye now.

I found Russert always trying to create controversy even when there wasn't any. He also had this arrogance on the screen which drove me crazy, though more than a decade ago I thought he was pretty cool. But then, silly me, I used to think Chris Matthews was cool...

Jamie interesting comment re: McBush...

Astonishing! I got back from the store and had an email that said Russert was dead, and my first thought was that thye were talking about ratings or something.

But given his weight, and coloring, I guess he was at risk. My brother in law had one of those heart attacks that just dropped him in his tracks.

I see it is Alicia's birthday. Happy 50th... How does it feel to be in your 50s? My turn comes up a year from this August...

You can't tell this is a blog for news junkies can you?

Within seconds of the announcement of Russert's death we had five posts relaying the event.

WOW ....Tim Russet dead ... though I disagreed with his politics, sorry to hear this .. all my prayers go out to his family .. will light a candle tonight ...

viv

I'm with you Euro. I used to like Russert but now I have no reaction. Same with Ted after the "nobler aspirations of the dem party" comment. Now Obama has two less cheerleaders.

WOW ....Tim Russetr dead ... though I disagreed with his politics, sorry to hear this .. all my prayers go out to his family .. will light a candle tonight ...

viv

Jamie
Thats why I check in, If I stop by the house.
You all keep an eye on TV so I don't have to.
Jack

whoops, sorry for the double post .. storms rolling in & lost connection, didn't realize it went thru ...

viv

His passing is a shock. I feel a sense of loss.

You know Flatus et al... I felt something personal from Russert's death ... re: I am a couple months away from 49 and my health has been challenged by weight. I am more motivated than ever to keep off the weight I lost and to eat healthy foods. If there is one "positive" in Mr. Russert's death, it is a reminder that obesity can truly kill... I am genuinely sorry for his family and friends.

Flatus and others: I read the article, Flatus, and I am a firm believer in American citizens having ALL rights afforded them. But I am still hung up on 1) these people are not American citizens, and 2) "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, except in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it." I think the question would be was there rebellion or invasion of public safety.

I think I still disagree with the decision, but the Court spoke so that's that. I very much appreciate the discussion and the good points presented.

For the folks in Iowa, try to keep you feet dry.

How High Is The Water?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45D0Hs7ZbZc

Jack

ET

Until recently it wasn't codified but was generally assumed that any child born on a U.S. base anywhere was born on U.S. soil for purposes of citizenship and holding office. Because of McCain's candidacy, a law was rushed through declaring that this was correct.

To have Scalia turn around and start his dissent with "The U.S. is at war with Islamo terrorism" even though no war has been declared (how do you declare war on an idea anyway?) and then to follow this up with the argument about Guantanamo not being part of the U.S. for purposes of Constitutional law was just incredibly, mind numbingly stupid. It is almost scary that he is on the court.

Sad , about Tim Russert.

In happier news , here's a story about French Open Women's champion visiting Belgrade , Serbia after winning the title. The crowd there was huge. A picture is included.

http://www.anaivanovic.com/index.php?path=start/news&detailpage=1199

lizbeth, thanks for writing again. I just think that our democracy is strong enough to allow every individual his or her day in court prior to throwing away the key.

I always thought that when a person came under our jurisdiction, no matter where, they came under our laws. The foundation of those laws was, of course, the Constitution. And that takes us back full circle again.

Thanks again for the discussion. And I think I do understand where you're coming from.

Tim Russerts death and all of the flooding that is happening in the upper midwest kind of puts many of the petty political arguments in perspective.

It is not the end of the world if McCain or Obama is elected president. Most of us will never tell the difference.

Flooding story in Iowa
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5h_Ed3DDmidp9vh1TuBLs9b52-7pA

Jack

Very sad for Russert's family....does anyone know if he was a cigarette smoker?

Jack,

We are so on the same wave length. All I have to do is read your introduction and I know what song I'll hear when I click on your link. : )

I Can't hear a Johnny Cash song without thinking of the Statler Brothers tribute song:

http://www.rhapsody.com/-search?query=We%20Got%20Paid%20By%20Cash&searchtype=RhapTrack

I was watching both McCain and Obama today on the trail...geez, McCain reminds me of Mr. Magoo and Obama was stumbling over his words and reading his talking points...not much passion there. I really do miss both Clintons.

Russert was a heavy smoker. I don't know how long or when he quit.

Who do folks think will take his place? I certainly hope it is not David Gregory.

Thank KGC...I am sure Matthews will want the job. But, Keith O. may also think he has earned the spot.

Nice to see there are some classless Hillary fucks posting today. I am sure if Tim Russert changed his set to Hillary 2008 you would all be singing hosanna in the highest.

Whether you agree with him or not, to diminish a death because they didn't puppet your candidate's talking points is certainly an insight into your soul...

"It is not the end of the world if McCain or Obama is elected president. Most of us will never tell the difference."

This is one of the most perceptive comments to date.

Well stated, Jack.

Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick will not attend the Obama rally at the Joe Louis Arena in Detroit next week.

i feel so bad, every since Russert drank the BHO juice i had been turning on MTP just to say "kiss my ass, tim russert". ...it wasn't personal, i hope i'll be forgiven:(

Bear,

Is everyone a group to you? There have been several comments saying it was sad news, thoughts and condolences to his family etc. Do you just discount everything generous any of the Clinton supporters say so that you can start name calling?

Of course we are sympathetic to his wife and family. He was a talented man and will be missed. That has nothing to do with political positions.

"Who do folks think will take his place? "

When my son called me this afternoon, I said the same thing....and he said he was more concerned about who would take Russert's place as the head of NBC news. Not a bad point.

Hi All -- I just got in from running around with the kiddos -- last day of school and all. Then my son told me that Tim Russert died. It brings it all into perspective. The same thing happened to my husband, three and a half years ago. Too young, too soon. I feel for his wife and son.

WOW....
so sorry to hear about Tim Russert....
I may have stopped watching MTP.... but I would never wish this on any human being..... my heart goes out to his family and friends....

Bear.... the only classless post was your's.....
and I recall when it was announced that Tony Snow had cancer that some Obama supporters here said they were glad and called it karma....

Missed the birthday congratulations this morning.

Jason - Happy 30th Birthday. May there be many more

Alicia Happy 50th Birthday - Don't stop counting, just smile and bear them all..

Bear, I think your comment was out of line to be honest. Speaking personally, I have held Russert in disdain even before the Clinton campaign and have quickly gone from "what a schmuck" to "what a sad day for his family and friends." I think that is a normal reaction.

"some classless Hillary fucks "

Climb down off your cross, Bear. Most have been sympathetic.

From Barack Obama-

I met Tim in 2004 after the Democratic Convention. He's became a good friend.

...and don't call me a classless fuck. You can call me a classless bitch or an asshole. But I do have standards.

Jamie,

Excuse my anger, it was not directed towards all Clinton supporters, just the classless one who think a person's death and another's terminal illness, are appropriate retribution for not supporting their candidate.

While I can understand how comments will be made in our current environment, the nature of his death hits very close to home and the fact that people can't wait until his body is cold is reprehensible.

since i am in a somber mood right now, i want to thank the rmajority of you that have let me join the group and share opinions. mostly i want to thank Master Crawford for his common sense.
but a few of you are real asses!
i trully respect your points of view, but there is no reason to be just plain vulgar and hateful.
sorry

Alicia, let me say I am sorry to hear that ! My mother has still not gotten over the death of her father, my Grandfather. It was 1965 and my sister and I were having our birthday party with many kids around at my Grandpa at age 63 was introduced to a heart specialist in the hospital and he said "pleased to meet you" and immediately suffered a massive coronary. My Gram was only 50 then and she never dated again. My Grandpa had only one wish in life, and that was to see my brother me and my sister grow up. Oh and Grandpa was also a big man, tall and big... his nickname was "FAT" and it was a pet name, never a pejorative.

Just a thought... perhaps those feeling down could make a donation to the American Heart Association??

“even though he was a total PRICK to Hillary”

It’s always about Hillary. Tim Russert was rough and accurate when it came to interviewing EVERYEONE. Guess you needed to watch him regularly to know that, but since you people don’t watch MSNBC or probably even NBC, you would not have known that. He went back to catch video of each person, no matter who it was, to catch them up or get the truth. The media is going to miss Tim for sure.

Pogo, I’ve been a Democrat all my life. I’ve voted for some local Repugs based on a close family member’s advice, because he has been involved in politics (Ohio) all his life and has held state appointed cabinet positions. I feel he knows some of these people better than I do (especially judges). He is now on a state appointed board (by Strictland) to clean up the Coingate thing brought about by the Repugs.

Funny, one of the woman who said I should not be caught with my little granddaughter has some pretty colorful language when my bad-mouthing was merely about Clinton. I guess “even close family" on here get angry at each other!

"some classless Hillary fucks "

Climb down off your cross, Bear. Most have been sympathetic.

Posted by: Patsi | June 13, 2008 5:13 PM

Patsi I think the comment was directed at me.

Karolenna, thanks for quoting me.

All I can say is...

pffffffffffffffttttt !

Now that you have shot again with your dagger you can slither away.

Thank you

I still had more regard for Timmeh than I do for the rest of his colleagues. But that's not saying a lot, these days. He won't be easily replaced.

Bear,

Then single out the person you feel was out of line. A blanket statement is just prejudicial by its nature. I don't lump all the Obama supporters here together, and you of all people should realize the importance of treating others as individuals.

...and don't call me a classless fuck. You can call me a classless bitch or an asshole. But I do have standards.

Posted by: Patsi | June 13, 2008 5:15 PM

Patsi, even though it's about a somber death, your comment vis-a-vis having "standards" made me chuckle.

Renee,

If you go back to the reaction of Tony Snow's cancer, it was DEMOCRATS that thought it was Karma. Same garbage was said about Jerry Falwell and I didn't like it then either. I did not participate in tomb side dance party.

If you think it's an acceptable standard to live by, all the power to you but don't be shocked when people view you differently.

Jerry Falwell's anti-Gay crusades took a personal toll on my self-esteem and serenity. He fueled the evil flames of homophobic HATE... total HATE. It was fucking KARMA and he can rot in hell. This is where I draw the line !

I don't care who the comment was directed at....

Bear.... you just proved yourself to be as classless as you perceive the person you're upset with....

sorry, Craig.... I'm getting a little sick and tired of all the sanctimoniousness of some Obama supporters.....

maybe it's time for me to say goodnight.... good luck... and everyone have a nice weekend.....

"Funny, one of the woman who said I should not be caught with my little granddaughter has some pretty colorful language when my bad-mouthing was merely about Clinton. I guess “even close family" on here get angry at each other!"

Karo -- if you are referring to me, I don't give a damn about anybody's cussing. I do remember that I was appalled at your sexist comments and hoped you didn't poison your granddaughter's perception of her gender.

Renee, don't be too rebellious now :-)

stick around !!!

Jamie,

I am lumped in as an Obama supporter just because I was anti Hillary. Even though I have declared since Edwards dropped out of the race that I would vote for a steaming pile of shit for president before I voted for McCain.

While I could have gone back to see who I should single out, I chose not to because the people who committed the wrong that angered me could tell pretty quickly that my comment was directed towards them.

Patsi, I am not a religious person and therefore while I have personal crosses to bear, I haven't gotten to the point of my personal Gethsemane. Anytime I make a reference to that song in Jesus Christ Superstar, you take it to mean that I am calling Obama Jesus instead of recognizing the importance of the scene. In a weak attempt to interject levity now into this, if you are having sex in a hooker hotel, with your husband or not, CF may work after all...

It is always suprising to me how someone like Bear loves to use Rush Limbaugh tactics. But it is a common problem with the left these days.

Jack

Renee,

Patsi told me to get off my cross, maybe you should take Hillary off of yours.

EuroTom, you emotions were fully justified. I may have felt similarly with regards to the "reverend". I just would not publicly enumerate them.

in YOUR opinion somebody "committed the WRONG"...

I don't know who you support and I don't care...

I didn't take this as Clinton versus Obama, except to say that in spite of him being a prick to Hillary, I was sad nonetheless over the news of his death.

Now can we fucking end this?

ET, rotting in hell is not exactly how Karma works. Karma means he has now most likely been reborn as someone's toe fungus. I'm not sure how he will work his way back from there.

jeejee ok, I vote for Jerry to be someone's toe fungus.

Rush Limbaugh tactics? People on the left?

Do explain how I am a water carrier for anyone? What lies am I making up about any candidate? I am now hateful because I don't like one of the worst candidates in modern political history?

I don't hate the Clinton's. Even though Bill Clinton annoyed me this campaign, I will still view him as the best president of my lifetime. If I could vote for HIM in perpetuity to be POTUS, I would do so without hesitation. When I travel home to Rhode Island, I pull over in Hope, Arkansas to offer a prayer of thanks.

Okay Bear,

Peace. I'm just sick of the name calling on all sides. We are disagreeing about political candidates. The over the top slash and burn of individuals who hold opposite positions has just been out of hand.

I would hope that we can disagreeing about issues more than personalities.

Condolences to the Russert Family and to his press family. I can recall many colleagues of his speaking respectfully over years when came to him as a reporter, and a person.

Such sad news.

On my way home now, good evening everybody.

Bear I just read your comment re: mine. The reason I made that comment was to say such a death transcends the partisanship of the campaign and to show that even though I felt he was horrendous in this news cycle, I was nonetheless saddened to hear he was dead.

I vote we go back to the real discussion... that a major news mover and shaker has died at far too young an age and stop the anger (which I think is natural when something shocking like a sudden, unexpected death occurs).

...
....
.....back to this VP thing, i have already heard the jokes, that if BHO picks HRC that he would need a food tester.
who comes up with this stuff!
and thank you tim russert, for many years of MTP.

So Bear
Did you take off early today and buy a jug? Because you are acting very irrational and sounding three sheets in the wind. Your the only one putting any of this in the same column. Nobody else is. Nobody has done what you have accused somebody of doing. I went back and looked. Not even Tom and his was the roughest I saw. So why don't you calm down pour you another one or two then watch the sun set.

Jack

"In a weak attempt to interject levity now into this, if you are having sex in a hooker hotel, with your husband or not, CF may work after all..."

ROFL, Bear. Actually, we didn't have sex in that place. After quite a flap with me trying to get a place to sleep, we were basically asked to leave. They were probably just prejudice, anyway. My ex looked very Arab/Egyptian back in his youth.

ok this is totally

I haven't seen Andrea Mitchell in YEARS and now I see her on live video and she looks younger than she did more than 10 years ago. hmmm...

"Do explain how I am a water carrier for anyone"

"Tactics" I said, you do know the definition of tactics??
And yes, you used one of his dirtiest ones in that first post. When you sober up think about it.

Jack

Hello All: Just wanted to check in from Cedar Rapids, IA. I hope you will all keep Iowa in your thoughts...it is a really bad situation here. We are on high ground but so many are not. This is my son's iReport on CNN...i didn't even know that he had sent it in until he stuck a phone on my ear and said, "This producer at CNN says that he needs you to give him permission to talk to me."

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-34520

My son and husband were sandbagging at the post office most of the day and then headed over to a small church. I will say this: Iowans are true grit. I am in awe of them.

"back to this VP thing, i have already heard the jokes, that if BHO picks HRC that he would need a food tester."

Nelson, This just happens to be one of the "jokes" that the women who supported Sen. Clinton really resented.

If it had been a respected two term male Senator, would the NEWS people have felt free to repeat this "joke" on air several times indicating that he was capable of assasinating the President of the US in order to get the job?

That is the problem with any prejudice. The people doing it become sort of "what did I say?" tone deaf to the effect of their words on the group that feels attacked.

Jamie,Patsi,Euro Tom
Classy Folks!!!!

hear hear Jamie...

Ally
Quite a boy you have there.
Been thinking about everyone up there. Lots of good thoughts on the way

Jack

which begs the question......how did the media get away with the crap they threw at HRC and her supporters? and how dare they now try to say they didn't do it?
damn, this is where i came in today.
at any rate..
just say no to BHO

You can send a sympathy message to Tim Russert's wife, Maureen Orth, at this email address:

maurorth@fundacionmarinaorth.org

Ally,

That is a son to make anyone proud and the photographs were very well done. I hope he stays well, that water can't have been safe.

Is the Red Cross best for donations or would you recommend something else?

Jamie and Jack: Thank you very much. We are proud of him. He just took those photos with his iPhone! I was surprised how good they turned out. Unfortunately the last couple of days I have been very consumed getting my 15-year-old son off to Morocco for an Arabic exchange. I was concerned he wasn't going to make it to the airport but luckily we were able to get over the river to get there (this morning). We drove on the Interstate over downtown and I simply could not believe my eyes. It is as terrible in person as it is on the TV.

As far as donations, there are local shelters that are doing an excellent job. If you don't mind, I am waiting for a friend to get back to me who visited the biggest one this morning and I might have more information over the weekend (the Viola Gibson shelter.)

Just a comment... for once Keith Olbermann has a softer approach and voice, and you can tell he's been crying... I feel for him.

Several of the people who worked with him appear to have been crying. It is obvious that they cared for him as a person.

Ally -- powerful statement from your son. Jamie's right, I know you are proud of him. And the news reports are just horrific.

oops Nick... that's a bit harsh... it is clearly a sad day not only for his fans and colleagues but also his family. As much as I felt he was extra nasty towards Hillary, it doesn't diminish him as a human being in my mind.

Just my two cents worth. Feel free to reject it :-)

Ally, all of us here hope for the best. Your son's story was really good. Take care.

Nick, it is because he is part of the public sphere that his death causes a far bigger reaction. That's normal. I am not here to say you should care about Tim Russert himself, but just the tragedy of dying at far too young of an age. When Reagan died, I even had a few tears (I was surprised by that). I really hated Reagan, but watching clips of his charm did affect me.

It's late, I need to sleep.

oh and I should say Reagan didn't die at far too young an age... :-) the analogy wasn't good. it's 12:30 in the morning here. Me gotta sleep ;-)

bye all...

BEAR included !!

xoxoxo

Jack -- I don't think Bear is drunk...I think he just checked in, scrolled down, happened upon some posts that pissed him off and raised some hell. I've done the same....:)

Nick - you only should care if you want to care. It's your choice.

A son loses his father, a wife loses her husband.....doesn't matter who dies.....it's a sad occasion.

Quite frankly, I can't believe I am writing this.

Hillary did it.

Champ is that your picture next to the definition of boorish?

Hell. Bear sounds like me when I'm sober. Now THAT's truly scary.

Oh shit...it's already 7 p.m. and my blood-alcohol level is dangerously low. Time for a martini. Thanks for bringing up booze, Jack. You might have just saved my life tonight!

Here's something that I've wondered about since I learned that Russert flew from Italy yesterday....I wonder if some kind of blood clot might have formed in his leg. Doesn't that sometimes happen, especially if someone is overweight or has bad circulation? (I actually don't consider Russert all that overweight....he was just a big guy.)

Those old Catholic schoolboys. Both Pat Buchanan and Chris Matthews described Tim Russert as "sui generis".

I guess those Latin drills in parochial schools really get imprinted.

"Thanks for bringing up booze, Jack. You might have just saved my life tonight!"

Spot on, Lard. I poured myself a glass of wine. It's Friday evening.

No, it's sad. My condolences to his family.

MTP was the only pundit show I could watch. Betcha KO is going to angle for that job.

Patsi,

Type A personality, totally driven in his career, probably working on little to no sleep for several months with little exercise of regular meals through the primary season, and finally gets to relax a bit with the family and then having to fly right back for his Sunday show. It's really possible. They did say an autopsy was being done, but whether the findings will be announced, who can say.

By the way, that CQ piece in the links titled "Remembering Russert" is great. Check it out.

Okay. I'm back. Along with my famous friends Mr. Martini and Mr. Rossi.

Cheers, Patsi!

Patsi that is how David Bloom died- deep vein thrombosis

Whatever you think of Tim Russert, I think this obit by Gawker's Alex Pareene pretty much says it all. It's pretty damned honest.

http://gawker.com/tag/obit/?i=5016336&t=tim-russert-1950+2008

londonderry air
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEYdoNRWw9I

Jack

Lard -- that was a good piece. even handed.

My thinking about Russert (despite getting pissed at him on MTP often) was confirmed by several on television today, that primarily, he was a real family guy. That when you talked with him, if you brought up family -- yours or his -- that was where the conversation always went.

That's exactly how Johnny Cash was. When I worked with him, we talked far more about our family histories and our children than even the music he was making. I always loved that about him.

Christ, Patsi. The fact that you even got to talk to Johnny Cash pretty much blows me away...even if he was only saying the ABCs.

Don't even get me started on June and the Carters. They're like beings sent down from heaven to make this country a better place, as far as I'm concerned.

Patsi

With your new computer are you now able to enjoy Jack's fantastic musical evenings via you tube ?
You missed a lot of good ones, but more to come we can hope..

Julie

Nick, Nick, Nick: Maureen Orth is a decent human being who just lost her husband. There will be time, later, for harsh assessments of his work. Tim Russert was not an evil man, he may have made some mistakes of opinion, but he was not evil. Having lost a spouse under similar circumstances, I really feel for his wife and his son. Like me she will have it easier than other women who have lost husbands because she has an extensive network of friends, her husband was widely respected, she will have emotional and financial support. It still doesn't make it any less of a shock or less of a life-changing event.

So please, brother Nick, hold your fire. For now.

Let's attack Keith Oberman instead.

Jack...any vintage Carter family stuff out there on the Tube? I don't even want to do my own search while "the master" is here on the board.

Carter Family = the singing wood nymphs in Lord of the Rings (the elves)

And June is the Kate Blanchett of the bunch.

"got to talk to Johnny Cash"

If you work in this business, you get to know people pretty well. In certain cases. Two I wish I knew but have never had the chance to be around at all are Dolly and Willie, and I love both of them and their music.

As far as having the opportunity to know Johnny on a friendship level, well, to quote Carl Perkins: "I wouldn't trade that for a gold monkey."

Patsi:

Speaking of Johnny Cash, I found a you tube of Johnny Cash with one of my favorites - Louie Armstrong doing an old Jimmie Rodgers, blue yodel # 9.. If you can find it, it is worth a listen.

I cannot copy/paste now since they updated my windows, until my daughter comes and corrects it or I would direct you to it...
Julie

Patsi,

Re Dolly.

Some family friends of mine in LA -- people who are nowhere even close to being country music fans -- have been directly and personally blessed by her hospitality, generosity and graciousness and say she is one of the most incredible human beings you'd ever want to have contact with.

I don't know jack about Willie. Although I recall he's said some crazy shit post 9/11-related. Am I right about that?

Huckabee has been hired by Fox

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20080613/TV.Huckabee.Fox.News/

Julie -- I get the Youtube now...but some things, like that Statler one Jamie posted, I have trouble with....don't know why.

russert died?

so it goes.

--kurt vonnegut jr.

Once Dolly said that traveling in her winabego (sp) was the
" ultimate luxury " so I told my Hubby this and we still laugh about it, today - I agreed with her, I knew what she meant.....in her situation....preforming in city to city....but for non-performers ( like ourselves)..."ultimate luxury"....might be something different...
: )

John & June

Long legged guitar pickin man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0caAT2_UF-o

maybe it was just an assumption that you possessed some similar level of social grace....Nick....sorry for the mistake

have a good one everyone....especially those who are lucky enough to still have their loved ones with them....enjoy !

peace~

am torn about this VP thing. I think HRC should stay as far away from it as possible -- why does she want to be part of a losing ticket? On the other hand, she is the one out of all the potentials who actually got 18 million votes and has a power base -- why is he just dumping her in with the others? I don't want her to take it, but I feel she should at least be RESPECTFULLY asked.

Posted by: CatBalu | June 13, 2008 1:08 PM

============================

I heard that he will only ask her, if he knows she'll turn it down ... since there's been this big push from alot of her supporters, he's afraid if he asked, she'll take it ...

Oh, and all this stupid nit-picking, as Lou Dobbs says, is so tiring ... sounds like 2- 5th grades agrueing, lol

probably somewhat as much as i did the first time I saw it in Schlactorf Funf........it covers a lot of ground.......

What has happened to good sportsmanship?

Now we would rather use any means at hand to destroy someone, rather than respect them as a talented rival or esteemed adversary.

Good to hear about Dolly -- I've never heard a bad word about her from anyone in the business. And about Willie -- haven't heard any of his post 9/11 comments.

patsi

Johnny Cash, I'm jealous.

I love some of the stuff that He did at the last. His voice was gone but the performer was still there

Johnny Cash God's Gonna Cut You Down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e0EQlQXoEo

Jack

Lard
Hey you make me think of my mom,she loved John and June.I can remember the stories as a kid,she spent her summers in Nashville with her Aunt Elsie going to the Grand Ole Opry.My mom got to meet and get to know June who at the time was married to Carl Smith.Thanks nice thoughts and boy do I miss my mom!!!

Jamie. That was solid gold. Even had a quick Carl Perkins cameo! I loved it! Thanks.

sportsmanship?

What a quaint old fashion idea. Kinda like Habeas corpus and the Geneva conventions.

Jack
uh that was sarcasm ya know.

Okay. Jack's post and Tony's story is going to make me start cryin'
Gots to go folks. Happy hour's over and fat's in the fire, anyway.
See you tomorrow.

schlachthof-funf....

timmy russert has come unstuck in time........

indeed

Jack

Sturge...a final one that I know you'll get...

"Those who write on heaven's walls
Should roll their s_ _ _ in little balls
And those who read these lines of wit
Should eat those little balls of s_ _ _"

I think it was from Breakfast of Champs.

What a great rulebook for blogs, when you think about it.

Jack -- is that a video Johnny made and authorized or something a YouTube person put together?

rented a tent, rented a tent, rented a, rented a, rented a tent..........

Patsi. Too much of an anti-pop-star, anti-Hollywood agenda with that Cash video Jack posted. No way he'd have authorized that. Hell, it even damned Keith Richards for eternity.

But it was still good.

unlikely_burrito,

Who are you to comment on my social graces. And why should i fell any empathy for Tim Russert?

Posted by: Nick | June 13, 2008 8:38 PM

If you had empathy for him, you'd be dead.

keef's married to a friend of mine......no way he goes to hell.......

The last time I saw Tim Russert was during the last debate he participated in. He was questioning Hillary. He was mad, turning all red (I thought it was just anger, but maybe high blood pressure knowing what we know now?) and he was furiously swinging a paper around which supposedly th represented a promise Hillary had made running for Senate in New York. Practically jumping up and down with anger and condemnation, he asked her how she could promise America she would create jobs, since she had made that same promise running for Senator of NY. He claimed she never delivered on her promise, and demanded she tell us why, here on National TV while debating BO.

Tim asked her angrily, 'What Happened?'. And I'll always remember her answer. She said 'George Bush, Tim. That's what happened'

But he never let up on her that night. And neither did anyone else, including Obama. They made jokes at her expense, made fun of her answers and ridiculed her whenever they got the chance.

No one ever said anything about that debate being unfair to Hillary. But they really got upset at the debate a few weeks later when Obama was asked the hard questions. He was really off his game that night.

Speaking of Big John...he'd be doing backflips over the beginning of tonight's Moyers....US workers productivity up 76% in the last 30 years, wages up 2%.

I don't know but I kinda agree with LL. It is also not in the same type that other videos done by Cash. I liked the video though.

Jack

If you had empathy for him, you'd be dead.

either that or be able to imagine how it feels......

I shouldn't even be watching this show about American workers. Now I'm gonna drink a bunch of wine and go ballistic.

I had the honor of attending a George Polk award ceremony in NYC for a news project that I had supervised, which was recognized with one of the dozen or so Polk awards given out each year.

Typical rubber chicken banquet in a worn hotel ballroom. It was the Roosevelt Hotel on 45th St. We got crammed in the back of the room. And I looked a couple tables over and there was -- HOLY SHIT -- is that REALLY Kurt Vonnegut Jr. My very first literary idol, besides J.D. Salinger? I thought, it can't be him.

But sure enough, the MC was doing shout-outs to various individuals in the audience and he casually mentions Kurt Vonnegut's presence near the end of the list -- and mentions him as a "tennis partner of mine."

Pretty amazing shit. I thought: "I guess I can die and go to heaven now."

I guess Vonnegut routinely went to those things just for the sake of going there. He wasn't getting an award or any other recognition that day at all. I was impressed.

patsi
Compare it to this video. Much different quality.

Hurt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmVAWKfJ4Go

Patsi...go back further than Big John. How bout a little Woody G on bankers:

"They don't rob you with a gun
They rob you with a fountain pen..."

Total paraphrase, but you get the point.

Re: Johnny Cash

Sam my 14YO is a huge Johnny Cash fan. He has just learned to play Ring of Fire on his guitar. It confuses me since his other favs are Green day and that ilk.

Patsi he was amazed that there was someone on this blog that was close to Johnny, of course, so am I. But then again, so am I.

Patsi one other question for you, did you ever get to know Chip Taylor? He put out an album called Last Chance which is one of my all time absolute favorites.

Jack & LL -- what made me realize Johnny had nothing to do with it were the public figures. Particularly Lisa Marie Presley and Kris. Cash would never have authorized a shot at Elvis's daughter.

But you are right...powerful video if the people had been unidentifiable.

And yes, a GREAT song.

After the 2000 election, my son (who was one of Johnny's favorite kids growing up) played Johnny singing "That Old Wheel" over and over and over!

"That old wheel is gonna roll around once more and when it does we will even up the score."

Karo: Oh, Hannah, I know this is a private blog. But, it is on a public internet site, and I like to check in sometimes to see “if” anything has changed. NOT! You will be so blessed because I’ll be gone to the beach for two weeks with my family and then probably start working again after that. Hooray for the private board (ah, forgot…blog)!!!
Posted by: Karolenna | June 13, 2008 2:54 PM
==============
DAMN! sound like you NEED that vacation ... I might not post much, but been on alot of blogs ... this ones tame .. yeah. we've got some who I don't enjoy, but even them, I have learned from everyone on here .. it IS like a family ... wished I'd found ya'll sooner ... might not have raised my blood pressure, lol

But you ?? you're a troll .. you are always angry at everyone's post .. you take offense way to easily to just be a BHO supporters ... you only come on here to flame ... sad .. made a vacation & working will take some of that anger out you before too long ... I can only hope .. { *sigh* } will light a candle for you ..

BowmanC...for Patsi's not-even-one-degree-of-separation from JC, I'd kiss her ass in Macy's window. That's how impressed I am.

karolenna probably goes to the beach to kill little baby sea turtles........

This Moyers show about how unions have been gutted and how workers are now screwed is just making me crazy.

LL,

You don't need an excuse to kiss ass. This is a new era, it's OK.

Bowmanc

And the redistribution of wealth, the beginning of the end for the middle class, began with Ronald Reagan.

Viv

I believe we should all adopt John McCains style of addressing those he doesn't like.
If you irritate him your referred to as "my friend" if your piss him off you are "my good friend"

So Karolena ( my good friend).............................

Jack

Macy's called.....they said they're appalled at the current trend of ass kissing in their show windows and that they in no way condone or encourage such behavior........

My good friend

I think that I've got to go.

BowmanC...just in case it was unclear, I was being sincere (not snarky) about kissing Patsi's ass in Macy's window. Her Johnny Cash creds just blew me away.

Patsi...grab a cab and head for Macy's...I think this is what Cary Grant might call "An Affair To Remember."

Sturg

How about a little Horace along with jack's videos. Man that should make one heck of a Friday evening.

Julie

I had just left a doctor's visit when my phone rang..brother told me Tim Russert was dead. Mr . Russert was younger than me by a few months, and it's shocking to hear of a death when there's no warnings...no slowly or quickly falling off of health because of an injury or illness.
These deaths shock people. Millions feel like they "knew" Tim and Luke and Big Russ, and Vanity Fair readers "knew" Mrs. Russert.
Mr. Russert was a man of deep faith, and he's been called Home.

He who postpones the hour of living rightly is like the rustic who waits for the river to run out before he crosses.
--Horace (65 BC - 8 BC)

Sturg...I saw a movie starring the actor William Macy once where he showed his naked ass in a cheap hotel room...and I almost came up with a pun like "Does This Mean You Can Kiss Macy's Ass In Your Own Window?"...or whatever. But then I just gave up and went back to watching the movie.

Senator Edwards' condolences were among the most graceful, moving tributes to have been read in the wake of Tim Russert's passing.

Given that presidents are often called upon to express grief and articulate the position held by someone who has passed, it shows, yet again, what a loss our nation will experience without him at the helm.

Senator Edwards would have been an appropriate spokesperson, acknowledging a country's mood, unlike, for instance, Mr. Bush or Mr. McCain.

I think the movie was "The Cooler."

oh.....you meant Horace Silver...........lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUAu_3R0VPI&feature=related

Art Blakey wannabe

most everybody's a somebody wannabe.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-Uqy6LhVS0

Macy's windows

Not sure if you will be able to see any _ _ _ kissing

_________

This is the second heart attack death for me this week, other man was 50, the family is devastated - sorry if I was judgmental earlier....

"Huckabee has been hired by Fox"

Of COURSE he has! ROFL!

I take that back. I love Horace Silver. I was just being stupid, and I don't know where that came from. The Jazz Messenger's were awesome under the leadership of both.

I coulda been somebody but I couldnt figure out which somebody I wannered to be........

"Chip Taylor"

No, sorry,I've never met him. Great talent!

I wonder if they had an AED nearby when Russert had his cardiac event. Most work places have them for cardiac emergencies.

June is National Safety Month. Next week at my plant I have arranged for First Responder Training where we teach First Aid, CPR and AED. I have 12 people signed up so they will all be trained on what to do if there is and accident in the plant or a heart attack or any other medical emergency.

You just cannot stress how important this training is. It can save a life. We had a machine operator have a stroke three weeks ago which required transport to a regional trauma center, then we had a person fall and break her wrist last week. Prior to that our plant had the best safety record in our industry. 3,500 days without a Lost Time Accident.

Sturge...I'm trying to keep up with you. But sometimes, to be honest, you're like trying to keep up with James Joyce. If he hadn't written "Finnegan's Wake" I know you would have.

That's a compliment, by the way.

lard.....guess what......I've never before heard a horace silver songknowing it was Horace Silver doing it......just know who he is.......

so it goes.......

"HOLY SHIT -- is that REALLY Kurt Vonnegut Jr. My very first literary idol, besides J.D. Salinger? I thought, it can't be him.

But sure enough, the MC was doing shout-outs to various individuals in the audience and he casually mentions Kurt Vonnegut's presence near the end of the list -- and mentions him as a "tennis partner of mine."
Pretty amazing shit. I thought: "I guess I can die and go to heaven now."

Wow -- I'd have said same. Vonnegut!

"How bout a little Woody G on bankers"

Oh man...what it would have been to spend time with him!

riverrun past eve and adam........

Patsi...the detail I implied but didn't emphasize enough was...that he was sitting at a table that was as equally shitty as mine, and he had been seated with the standard group of eight banquet-attending dumbasses who were total strangers to him. I thought: WTF!

Damn. I think we're losing Sturge for the night. Or, viewed another way, we're gaining him.

Either way, I love the sumbitch.

"Patsi...grab a cab and head for Macy's...I think this is what Cary Grant might call "An Affair To Remember."

Snort -- I don't think Macy's allows old broads' asses in their windows!

"Chip Taylor"

I know a couple of things about Chip Taylor

1.Wrote the song "Wild Thing recorded by the Troggs

2.Brother is Jon Voight

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

I'm okay......I just tripped over that damned commodius vicus.......

Julie

I already beat Sturgeon with the first Latin quote today.

If he hits you with one you don't recognize, you can always go here to cheat

http://www.yuni.com/library/latin.html

Probably not Lardasses either

Patsi. I love you too. I really gotta go this time.

"But everytime I get out...you guys keep PULLIN' me back in!!."

LOL. Night all.

nil magnum nisi bonum

Sturgeone,

Watch out for the commodius vicus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSJcZ7HU2ZM

Philadelphia Lawyer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJXaBpD9kbw

Jack

"that he was sitting at a table that was as equally shitty as mine,"

Amazing, Lard. I've seen some pretty big celebs put in situations like that, and the great ones always just shrug it off.

I did know this but this song was banned on the Grand ole Opry.

Kitty Wells - It Wasn't God Who Made Honky Tonk Angels
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMCUaVbgqe4

Jack

Oh yeah, Friday night going good. Horace Silver was great.

Patsi, you 939 post was priceless, I am still laughing.

julie

stick around lardass you never know what is gonna come up next.. you make the party too.

Mr. Fish

Are you saying great things come in small packages?

if yall a'scuse me form innit........i gotta burn some cow........

here is a friend of mine playing guitar when he worked for Sam Bush. Old Joe Clark

http://youtube.com/watch?v=h6HADERTH8w

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Roy Acuff and Bashful Brother Oswald --Wabash Cannonball

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dTU_RvjTY4

Jack

. This is my son's iReport on CNN...i didn't even know that he had sent it in until he stuck a phone on my ear and said, "This producer at CNN says that he needs you to give him permission to talk to me."

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-34520

: Iowans are true grit. I am in awe of them.
=================

Alley: Oh wow, I'm sure reading his story gave you goose bumps with pride!! it did me! mostly because we don't hear about kids like your son enough .. who show how they've matured to this point of understanding when terrible things like this happen ...

He reminds me of my son at that age .. only instead, we'd been hit by a tornado ... we didn't have internet, '86, but he went out & took pictures & gave them to the local newspaper ..

Sturgeone

"most everybody's a somebody wannabe"

I'd rather be a has been than a might of been by far

A might have been has never been while a has been was an are.

The Moyers show ended with the suggestion that eople check out Sen. Bernie Sanders' website and the responses he got when he asked people to email him the real stories of their lives....answers include people choosing between baby food and heating oil.

Overweight men of a certain age need to have a heart stress test and their arteries checked by doppler ultrasound. I've had both, and I'm not an overweight man of a certain age.

Highly recommended.

And a cholesterol check.

~RIP~
Tim Russert

tt

Another one
They are all a little older

Roy Acuff and Brother Oswald --I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0SsN477Q1U

Have to leave the Friday Night Fun Fest

Enjoy.

".Brother is Jon Voight"

I didn't know that, dooty! Very interesting. Does that mean he's Jolie's uncle? Isn't Voight her dad?

Summertime - Ella Fitzgerald & Louis Armstrong
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yKgAEkCKxY.

Night all bed time around here.

Jack

Yeah, I think so Patsi. I never have understood why he does not use the Voight name. His choice I guess. His birth name is James Wesley Voight according to Wikipedia.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Just heard the NPR version of the Russert obit, and it struck me that this is going to be such a Washington "funeral-orgy" that will set a new standard of phoniness and "see-and-be-seen" air-kiss, not-looking-you-in-the-eye-but-looking-over-your-shoulder-for-someone-more-important-than-you bullshit.

Hell...they did one several years back for Brit Hume's kid...and he wasn't even 30. Was a punk reporter for a Capitol Hill rag.

Russert was the Dean of Washington, going out at the top of his game. It's going to be unbelievable.

Don't you just KNOW that asshole Tweety is already sitting around fantasizing about taking over Meet The Press now? He'll have a front row seat at the funeral-orgy. Guaran-EFFEN-teed.

Sorry. You PULLED ME BACK IN again. I just had to vent.

Rezko's letter should put Obama, governor on alert

"The last thing Sen. Barack Obama and Gov. Rod Blagojevich needed was that letter written by convicted Illinois influence peddler Tony Rezko promising he'd never rat out his pals.

The imprisoned political fixer insisted that federal prosecutors are squeezing him, according to an exclusive Tribune report written by federal courts reporter Jeff Coen for Thursday's paper."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-kass-13-jun13,0,1570658.column

Actually the musical chairs at NBC may end up being a more interesting story then the general election.

Maybe Meet The Press would be a good next step for Senator Clinton -- she has many connections, she has the support of people at both ends of the economic spectrum and appeals in particular to the demographic that watches Meet The Press.

A little humor for the night.

If you haven't spent your stimulus rebate

Moonlight BunnyRanch in Carson City, Neveda is offering double the services for those people who bring in their stimulus check and spend it there.

Bring in a $1200, check and get three women and a bottle of bubbly.

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2008/06/more-bang-for-t.html

Jack

Patsi,
I read a few of the letter's on Bernie Sanders' website. They were heart breaking and candid.

Nick -- Sorry -- I don't expect you t feel the same way I do. It's okay. I posted Maureen Orth's email address for the people who may have wanted to send her a few words of sympathy. It wasn't meant to mandate anyone to do anything.

You have a right to your feelings.

Namaste,

Alicia

"Don't you just KNOW that asshole Tweety is already sitting around fantasizing about taking over Meet The Press now? He'll have a front row seat at the funeral-orgy. Guaran-EFFEN-teed."

Say it ain't so!

Jack: you're right ... don't know what got into me .. *sigh* ... just snapped .. hadn't had my beer yet tonight ...

'Bring in a $1200, check and get three women and a bottle of bubbly." -Jack

Can I take them home and have them clean the house, while I drink the bubbly?

"Can I take them home and have them clean the house, while I drink the bubbly?"

EXCELLENT idea.

Happy birthday Alicia.
You're still a youngster.This November My husband and I will be married 50 years if we make it.

Have gotten my life back since I no longer watch MSM..I check in here to hear the news or watch Charlie Gibson and sometimes FOX.

Neither candidate is worth voting for so have lost interest in this year's election.It's probably a good thing because this is a busy time of year for me.I picked 4 gallons of strawberries yesterday and wil probably have more than that tomorrow.Then it will be a cherries ,apricots and vegies to put up.I keep saying this is my last year,but can't see letting them go to waste.
I give a lot away, but you would be surprised at how many are too lazy to come out to pick any.If I pick clean and deliver,then they will take them.

I still have time to come here after dark though but by the time i read all the posts it's almost time for bed Lol

Ruth

A little humor for the night.

If you haven't spent your stimulus rebate

Moonlight BunnyRanch in Carson City, Neveda is offering double the services for those people who bring in their stimulus check and spend it there.

Bring in a $1200, check and get three women and a bottle of bubbly.

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2008/06/more-bang-for-t.html

Jack

===============
LMAO!!!! I've seen some of their shows, can just picture the owner & his manager, can't think of their names right now .. telling people of the deal, hehehe
Thanks for the good belly laugh, Jack ...

!:^}
viv

Jack, then WalMart doesn't have a chance!

Jack & Burito

You guys are cracking me up tonight. I can't stop laughing

julie...

I bet Spitzer (client No.9) has already booked his fight to the BunnyRanch.

btw ...Jack...did you get an email alert on that special?

lol@ unlikely-burrito

Yep, I would take them over for my fatherinlaw. He was widowed last fall. He has got the hang of cooking for himself but not the cleanup part.

Jack

I still have time to come here after dark though but by the time i read all the posts it's almost time for bed Lol

Ruth

================

Ruth: I know what you mean .. by time I read & post, most I post to, aren't on line, lol

Jack,

With regards to your question of my earlier sobriety...

1. I don't drink alcohol.
2. If I did still drink alcohol, my current tastes have priced me out of the market to make a purchase.
3. I am currently experiencing a bulging disc in my lower back which has somehow pinched some nerves leading to a smoldering burn in my legs.
4. Normal pain killers don't do anything to alleviate the "discomfort" I find myself in.
5. I saw a quote that I read to spin a person's death as some type of karma payback for being against a candidate and that set me off...

Jamie,

I've always wondered, how did you end up handling owls? Every time I see that picture, I get curious.

Who?

Me?

Remember, I'm the man that makes sure his wife can get to work every morning. I know a good deal when I've got it.;-)

Jack

Ruth- here's an article for you NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/11/dining/11garden.html?_r=1&scp=9&sq=growing%20food&st=cse&oref=slogin

Tiptoe - Russert's Doc was on TV saying that he[d just had a stress test on April 29 and passed with flying colors. His cholesterol was within the healthy range as well. The autopsy showed asymptomatic coronary artery disease. He could have done a stress test this morning and passed.

There were two interns ho were certified in CPR who began performing it immediately when they realized what was happening. The EMS is really not far away from NBC in DC. I think the nearest EMS is at Connecticut Avenue and Nebraska. They were activated right away and used a defibrillator on him three times on the way to Sibley Hospital

What is not clear is if NBC had a defibrillator on site. If it had been put in use as soon as he collapsed, that may have changed the outcome of this tragedy. Or maybe not. This type of heart attack -- ventricular fibrillation -- is not called a widow-maker for nothing.

Viv,

I don't know how I ended up on the Bunny List newsletter but the prices there are a bit high...though if you don't mind appearing on the HBO show, they were giving huge discounts for guys willing to appear.

Bear
I was out of line, please accept my apology.
A bad back is a bitch at times, I understand.

Jack

Bear: well, it sure looks like they don't have any problem find people top sign, hehe plus, it's hard to say how we get on some of these "list" out there ... I know my name's been sold alot .. get mag's & offers for things I'd never think of getting, lol

no sweat dude...

Although I have lost all respect for Kennedy and Russett I offer sympathy for their families and those who care for them..
My friends 35 year old brother was driving home a few years ago and had a massive heart attack.He was young healthy in good physical shape and unaware of any problem.Another friend lost her husband at age 60 after he had just had a complete physical and was declared fit.Apparently they each had heart disease which went undetected.We just never know what is around the corner

Ruth

Bear,

"I've always wondered, how did you end up handling owls?"

I was on a trip to Scotland and there was an exhibit of owls, hawks, and eagles. I asked the gentleman if it was possible for me to hold the owl and he not only allowed me to hold it but to stroke it so that it wouldn't remove one of my digits. At the same time, I also made an acquaintance with a highland bull. He got petted as well. The other picture of me standing next to the wooden lady was taken at New Lanark world heritage site. It was a lovely vacation.

Here are some more pictures of the birds and my buddy Hamish

http://jdurward.blogspot.com/2006/06/flora-and-fauna.html

Bear: I can relate on the back problem .. I've got arthritis on my spine w/ stenosis .. started in my Lumbar 10 years ago, now the arthritis is all the way, w/stenosis in my neck now, on both sides ... I can't take any of the "good meds", I'm allergic .. so I can understand your pain ... am doing ok right now, Bud does help some .. I'll light a candle you tonight, sending healing energy ...

!:^)
viv

Sounds like we could start another blog for bad back sufferers. I've been living with a messed up spine since '81 ... You all have my empathy and sympathy.

u-b
thanks for the link.We,ve been doing this for fifty years and every year we plan to cut back but we never do.This year we have added more.We have added more potatoes at the property our son inherited which has a larger garden space than we have.They keep all winter,so we only have to buy about 25 lbs a year.And at his property there are about 30 fruit trees that my husband has trimmed and is taking care of added to the 25 we have ourselves.
Maybe our son can take them to his bar and sell them.I know he plans on using the veggies.We have two large freezer full to the brim.But I still find room to add a little more.We eat mostly at home so we do use it.

Ruth

This is a big wake up call for those who borderline obesity--high blood pressure--low activity....You can look it up on the chart....just google BMI chart...

it's scary real

Ruth

My great Aunt had a commercal orchard for years. when her husband died she retired. Having survived the depression she hated to see the fruit rot on the ground. She tried to give it away but nobody would come out to pick it. What she did was charge a little bit for people to come and pick all they wanted and she got a good response. You might give it a try. I would be over in the morning to help with those strawberries.
Strawberry short cake.
Jack

Before this day is over, and amidst the grieving over the loss of Tim Russert, I wanted to offer Corey my condolences on the passing of your friend, Chris. I don't "know" her or you, but seeing that she and I share our birthday, I felt a connection.

Today would have been the birthday of a great friend of mine who also passed too young from cancer. She was a writer, a professor of English, an academician, an aspiring college president who was near to achieving that goal had not her cancer returned and struck her down with lightning speed. Sandy, you are still remembered.

Good night again.

Wow Ruth that is awesome.
Your son has a bar (?), he should offer smoothies...with the veggies and fruit mixed....people will pay $$$ to drink something healthy. just a thought

Bear
My son had back surgery about six weeks ago and is doing well.He's doing a lot of hard work and before surgery he was in pain like you and nothing helped.He had it done by one of the top doctors in Chicago,which operated on one of his discs 2 years ago.This surgery was done to correct surgery done by a local doctor.The Chicago doctor said he had been butchered so it is always smart to research and find the best surgeon you can.
My son has been doing a lot of heavy lifting and I keep warning him to be careful,because he may not be able to be fixed as next time.But it's hard to talk to hard heads.

Ruth

Here is my witty entry for the night. This is the text and story behind of the Father's Day card I bought my Dad today.

On the front of it there is a picture of 4 kids. Two kids are lying on top of each other on the ground. They are unconscious. There are two huge imprints of these kids imbedded in the side of the house. Another kid is loaded into a giant slingshot waiting for the the last kid to launch him into the side of the house. Their Dad sticks his head out the front door and yells, "JEEPERS H. CHRISTMAS! HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND?!! JUST LOOK AT THAT ALUMINUM SIDING!!" He isn't bothered by the fact that 2 of his kids are lying on the ground unconscious. He's more concrened with the 2 giant dents in the aluminum siding on the house. The inside of the card reads: "Happy Father's Day and thanks for always caring." That sums up my childhood. My Dad was always yelling at me for putting dents in the aluminum siding on the garage and other places as well.

Life is hard, then you die.

And I bet each one of you have a heart wrenching story to prove that statement true. That's why we have to enjoy the good, when we see it. : )

for an example: three gorgeous hookers and a bottle of bubbly for only $1200.

peace~ to all of you - prayers to the Russert Family

Thanks Ivy.

u-b
He has a hard enough time to get anyone to serve drinks now without them having to make smoothies.They do make jello shots and apple pie shots though.
We call him Donald Trump because he has fired so many.Need to buy him a t-shirt saying "your'e fired".
Too bad I'm not younger.Those girls make fantastic tips.On a good night they can make between $300-$500.Tips were unheard of when my parents ran the bar.
Ruth

Corey .... you know what?

Carey says : what?

You will never be a Father like that, and because of what you experienced and acknowledge, your children will have the best Dad ever....ad that is a very good thing.

: )

night for real - peace~

Jack,
I do have a friend who is coming tomorrow to pick berries.I offered to pick them for her but she won't hear of it and is going to help me pick all of them,even tho she only wants a small amount.She's smarter than me,has no desire to freeze any.She says she has done enough of that in her life.
As far as having people come and pay to pick,I really don't want a buch of strangers in my yard.I can take some to the food pantry.
Some years back we let a friends elderly mother pick cherries and she fell off the ladder.but she got back up and kept on picking.Today we would have been sued.
Ruth

Ruth

I understand.
Wished we didn't live 10 hrs apart, Freshpicked in season strawberries, I have to eat those California berries.
As far as freezing them, I tend to agree with a cousin. He always said he only liked them in season. Eat your fill then wait till next year. I tend to be a seasonal grazer.
Most things are best in season.
Good night for certain. The peaceful conversation kept drawing me back. But My wife is an early riser and she has a busy day planned.

Jack
Jack

Time for me to leave too, before the evil ones appear.Don't want to spoil the good mood on this blog tonight.Even tho there is much sadness.Not much name calling.Good night all.

Ruth

And a good night was had by all !

Stop all the clocks, cut off the telephone,
Prevent the dog from barking with a juicy bone,
Silence the pianos and with muffled drum
Bring out the coffin, let the mourners come.

Let aeroplanes circle moaning overhead
Scribbling on the sky the message He is Dead.
Put crepe bows round the white necks of the public doves,
Let the traffic policemen wear black cotton gloves.

He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last forever: I was wrong.

The stars are not wanted now; put out every one,
Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun,
Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods;
For nothing now can ever come to any good.

W.H. Auden

great poem, friend.

patsi: Chip Taylor , brother of Jon Voight, is one of greatest handicappers in the world.
He has made a fortune betting on the ponies...he is uncanny at this craft.
His real name is James Wesley Voight.

oops. Sorry to post twice. I don't know how that happened.

I corrected my typo 'bag" was suppose to be "barge"

I propose a 1-week moratorium on use of the word 'egregious'.

I appreciate your enthusiasm for lively debate. posted by: prof marcia

Dog's not interested in a lively debate.
Dog's interest in those who disagree with her not posting at all. She can look up her own links if she wants links.
No ones required to do any such thing.
Since when do you need to defend your feelings?

Nick,
Sorry to see everyone ganged up on you last night.
Wish I'd been here to speak up for you.
Say what you want.
You have as much right as anyone else.

Good Morning lovely people! We're almost off to the VA DEM convention in Hampton. It will be interesting, and fun to see old friends from around the Commonwealth.

Thank you, thank you, than you for all the kind and uplifting birthday wishes yesterday. It made reaching the 50 milestone that much easier. You all are great!

Chloe, sometimes it's just best to bite one's tongue and be silent even though one might be seething with anger or resentment. Yesterday afternoon was one of those times.

Even Queen Elizabeth, despite her antipathy to Diana, had the grace, and good common sense, to bow her head as Diana's coffin passed by.

And, that's my free speech, soap box enabled, first comment of the day. :)

Dog, wouldn't it be great if we could come up with an on-line database of linked sexist and racist and ageist remarks by campaigns and the press?

It would have to be secure and someone would have to oversee it.

ALICIA, if you need gas money to make it to the convention, we can all pool our assets to get you there and back! :)

One thing about Tim Russert, is he always seemed to be enjoying his life and work- he did not seem angry or accusatory toward people- of course he grilled them about long forgotten sound bites, but when he wasn't focused on the question, there seemed to be a real enjoyment.

I got to see him up close twice- one in the corridor at the Fleet Center of the dem convention in 04, where he was walking around by himself eating a chocolate ice cream cone, peeking into the arena, just checking things out, and I said "Hi Tim" as I walked by and he smiled and said hi and waved - Not all are friendly toward those who were nothing to them. I know that was a 10 second moment, but it seems to consistent to how he came across in his book and his on air personality.

It is very easy to let life go by quickly, and to get so caught up in work and other obligation s till it is too late. We will be hearing more in the coming days about health and such, but I will always think of Tim Russert as someone who seemed even handed, aware of his roots, and enjoying his life.

He seemed to often have a smile on his face.

So...

If, as some claim, that misogyny on the media's part was detrimental to the candidacy of HRC, because it appealed to the misogyny of the viewing public and influenced them accordingly...

Then...

Who's fault is that? The misogynist media, or the misogynist public?

"Which could serve as a repository for links and stories, although a lot of the discussion could take place here as well.

Dog, there are thousands of feminist blogs that detail the rampant sexism. You appear to bem one of those women who shrug it off, so when I post anything, I guarantee, I am not trying to convince you of anything. It would be like trying to convince someone who disbelieves the Holocaust.

Chloe, sometimes it's just best to bite one's tongue and be silent even though one might be seething with anger or resentment. Yesterday afternoon was one of those times.
Posted by: Flatus | June 14, 2008 7:33 AM

That's me Flatus.
No 'social graces'.
Thank the heavens there's always someone like you around to point it out.

Dog

The problem with your post was we have repeatedly posted the proof you demanded. You refuse to remember any of it or deny its existance. (shrug) At this point it is an exercise in futility.
I would rather try to rehabilitate Gordo.

Jack

Here is just one link. Call it Sexism for Beginners:

http://www.now.org/news/note/021408.html

LOL
If it is listed on a feminist web site it ain't real?

Jack

Do not stand at my grave and weep,
I am not there, I do not sleep.
I am in a thousand winds that blow,
I am the softly falling snow.
I am the gentle showers of rain,
I am the fields of ripening grain.
I am in the morning hush,
I am in the graceful rush
Of beautiful birds in circling flight,
I am the starshine of the night.
I am in the flowers that bloom,
I am in a quiet room.
I am in the birds that sing,
I am in each lovely thing.
Do not stand at my grave and cry,
I am not there. I do not die.

(Mary Frye)

"No man is an island, entire of itself; every
man is a piece of the continent, a part of the
main. If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory
were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or
of thine own were: any man's death diminishes
me, because I am involved in mankind, and
therefore never send to know for whom the bells
tolls; it tolls for thee."

--john donne

Obama's Friedman Disciples -

Barack Obama waited just three days after Hillary Clinton pulled out of the race to declare, on CNBC: "Look. I am a pro-growth, free-market guy. I love the market."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jun/14/barackobama.uselections2008

First, the VP match up will be colored by the comments Richardson and to a certain extent what Biden has laid out on OBL and Pakistan. Remember Pakistan? Richardson said that all we had to do was to get Musharrah out and the moderates in and problem solved. Nothing could be further from the truth. Here is the strike just inside Pakistan that the moderates are screaming about as they call for ending support for US policy. This strike is just one of a number that Obama was a big advocate for last summer. Can we call bullshit, bullshit?

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/004244.html#comments

Meanwhile, as the Pakistan government cuts deals with the Taliban, the militants assemble larger forces and just a few days ago freed almost 900 extremists from a large prison in Afghanistan. This situation is likely to make Obama look quite silly in the next few months and selecting an advocate for failed ideas is just wonderful thinking. The Press is covering for this mess. It ignores events in Syria, Gaza and Iran as well.

So next is Iran. Notice that Europe is pushing for new sanctions NOW? They stand behind Bush? They HAVE talked to Iran and offered new incentives. Seems the Obama idea here is yet another example of wishful thinking with no plan B. And how did the Press attack his amazing reversal regarding talking to Ahmadinejad? One of the few talking heads that softly mumered is dead. It is all BS Obama politics designed to confuse the voters. Again which brilliant VP choice is alligned with such dubious thinking on Iran and Pakistan? What VP candidate has the courage to tell Obama it is just plain wrong and that Afghanistan is slipping due to weakness, not the number of OUR brave men and women in Afghanistan? None most likely. WHich candidate will tell Obama that his new direction is as dangerous as the poorly run one of Bush? What candidate has a set of balls?

In a sordid act of power consolidation designed to reward and police Chicago politics and protect Obama (that includes all of Obama's associations), the DNC is movng to Chicago. Oh that is just wonderful too....LOL. This is the right signal to show the country just how centrist the Democrats are? Yeah, right. Or should I say yeah Wright?

So good luck with the new master. The meme goes quite well with Kelly getting off. The VP is another snake oil game designed to fool the people. Meanwhile our "journalists" fail the basics tests of journalism while they clamor for the House version of the new Freedom of the Press Bill, I am still waiting for Craig to take a stand on. Soon our politics and Press will be a consolidated arm of partisan politics. Next our educational system will become partisan and the dumbing down of future generations willbe complete.
How can anyone have anything but contempt with this direction? And it is not a consequence of evil Bush. It is the consequence of complete arrogance and hypocrisy of ideologues of the Left forgetting what America's experiment is all about. The supreme irony is that they market this dangerous low road as a high road and confuse national security and realpolitiks with partisan BS.

Split the ticket and save the Democrats.

"LOL
If it is listed on a feminist web site it ain't real?"

Exactly, Jack. I don't get it. I'm missing some sort of logic here. Should we only go to male dominated media blogs where they are protecting their butts?

(Not you, Craig! We all remember how outraged you were when you stayed home with a broken ankle and watched non-stop tv.)

There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana (1863 - 1952), Soliloquies in England, 1922, "War Shrines"

The thing I so respect Russert for is his relationship to his father and how that taught him to be a strong father to his own son.

I remember when Jackie Kennedy was talking about legacys, and she said that her children would be her first legacy. She believed that if you screwed that job up, you had screwed it all up.

Recently my son went to a week long leadership conference that included one day with "shrinks" who evaluated their leadership techniques etc. Part of it involved lengthy conversations about how the participants were raised. At the end of that day, one of the older women told my 35 year old son, "Please convey my personal thanks to your mother for the job she did raising you."

So he called and relayed that. To which I asked: "I guess you didn't mention all the nights you got up to tell me to turn down Hank Jr on the stereo."

"Nah, I covered your butt on that one," he said. Ha.

Dog if we limited conversation to facts, Obama supporters would have little to add.

Is all Colorado Shale oil in national parks? Is China drilling closer to the US than we allow US companies?
DId the defeated windfall tax bill really suggest investment into the very new refineries the Democrats prevent? Doesn't Obama's economic program raise the defict while cutting defense? Don't our allies advocate for new iranian sanctions now? Isn't Obama predictions for Pakistan completely wrong?

How about the basic fact that Obama is far from center? Is it a fact his very own mother was conservative? Didn't a $50 million dollar grant from the Ayer family start Obama rolling? Isn't it a fact that Obama told the Press he didn't have to pick a national security VP because he was "expert enough"?

SO you see, facts may be Obama's coming downfall as he supported suing OPEC while not voting once again. Isn't it a fact he doesn't talk much about OBL because of pie in the face regarding Pakistan?

Yep, damn facts.

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You folks have been up forever ... good morning.

Whoever posted the Auden Elegy. Thank you. It is my favorite piece for the perfect expression of loss when someone leaves us suddenly.

I thought love would last forever. I was wrong.

"We are going here for statements of FACT, from reputable sources."

Dog, as I said, I been there and done that. I provided the video clips for you. Yet just like Gordo You come back with the same old stuff. As I said I would rather rehab Gordo, and I'm not taking on that project either.

Jack

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