Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Craig...

It seems you forgot she invoked RFK as a reason and path to the nomination as things happen in June.

Barack Obama’s Three “Wise Men” — This Video Shows the Extremely Poor Judgment of This Unqualified Candidate

"Once the entire voting population in this country is exposed to repeated airings of the rantings of these “wise men,” there is no doubt that John McCain will win the general election in a historic landslide."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/06/02/barack-obamas-three-wise-men-this-video-shows-the-extremely-poor-judgment-of-this-unqualified-candidate/

lisbeth:

Here are some close associates - that actually relate to Obama's policies - not his personal life:

"Obama took an active role in the Senate's drive for improved border security and immigration reform. In 2005, he cosponsored the "Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act" introduced by Republican John McCain of Arizona."

"Partnering with Republican Senators Richard Lugar of Indiana and then Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, Obama successfully introduced two initiatives bearing his name. "Lugar-Obama" expanded the Nunn-Lugar cooperative threat reduction concept to conventional weapons, including shoulder-fired missiles and anti-personnel mines. The "Coburn-Obama Transparency Act" authorized the establishment of USAspending.gov, a web search engine launched in December 2007 and run by the Office of Management and Budget."

"In January 2007, Obama worked with Democrat Russ Feingold of Wisconsin to eliminate gifts of travel on corporate jets by lobbyists to members of Congress and require disclosure of bundled campaign contributions under the "Honest Leadership and Open Government Act," which was signed into law in September 2007"

Obama also "joined Republican Chuck Hagel of Nebraska in introducing legislation to reduce risks of nuclear terrorism."

"Obama was sworn in as a senator on January 4, 2005. Though a newcomer to Washington, he recruited a team of established, high-level advisers devoted to broad themes that exceeded the usual requirements of an incoming first-term senator. He hired Pete Rouse, a 30-year veteran of national politics and former chief of staff to Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle, as his chief of staff, and economist Karen Kornbluh, former deputy chief of staff to Secretary of the Treasury Robert Rubin, as his policy director. He recruited Samantha Power, author on human rights and genocide, and former Clinton administration officials Anthony Lake and Susan Rice as foreign policy advisers."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

Craig,

I think the deal's cut. He gets to ask if she wants VP knowing that the answer will be No. Best of both for both. In exchange for her very public support and most any cabinet or post she wants.

Craig,

What were you going to say about Woodrow Wilson on Dan Abrams show tonight?

And Craig it could happen.
It is all in the superdelegates hands.
LOL
a shotgun wedding

Jack

Warren,

I mentioned two that made it in the Wiki First, I win the cupie doll.

Yeah, agree with ya there,
but I got a feeling ..
this deal was made along, long time ago ..

Rez

There is only one post she wants.
I don't think he will give it to her.
Only room for one president.
;-0

in the morning
Jack

10-4 Jack

Max:

Power left on her own accord because she accurately described what a lot ofpeople were feeling at the time.

And her position on Iraq - that Obama's stance would be influenced by what he hears from his generals on the ground - and can only be solidified once he takes office is exactly the right position.

And focusing our efforts on going after those responsible for 9/11 - whether they be in Pakistan or elsewhere - is also on more solid ground than continuing Bush's policies that have isolated the US from many of our allies and increased the standing of our enemies is also something I am on board with.

And freeing up troops, supplies and cash from Iraq will increase the pressure we can put on Iran. And talking with Iran or at least raising the possibility of talks - will give any future military action greater legitimacy and thus increase our chances of receiving meaningful support from our allies if use of force is necessary.

Diplomacy is not a sign of weakness. And it never has been until we elected a cowboy with a poorly-informed world view.

Continuing Bush's "arrogant bunker mentality" will further isolate America and decrease our standing in the world.

Do you think Hillary wants to be on a losing ticket? The Repub 527s would still "destroy" Obama.

Craig- Jack,

I forgot to mention the reportedly 40 million debt she owes.

Hillary is just setting herself up for blame of some sort if she goes on the ticket. As it is, just campaigning for him is dangerous - if the 527's sink him, they'll blame it on her He flat cannot win without her campaigning for him, but she won't get credit if that's what happens.

I've decided I can't vote for him but won't vote for McCain either. Can any of you math people figure out if it would be better to cast no vote or to cast a goofy vote?

bettyboo:

How bout you vote for whichever candidate on the ballot has a vision for America that is closest to what Hillary has been fighting for during this long campaign.

Maxtrue:

Some more for you to consider on Iran:

http://www.nsnetwork.org/node/823

Bill Clinton: Purdum a "Sleazy" "Slimy" "Scumbag"

-pot, kettle, and all that

Obama's vision for America is ultra-left - he is dangerous.

I give up ... bye

Warren - thanks for the suggestion, but no other candidate is even close to what Hillary has been fighting for. I think we'll just have to disagree If you want exercize in insulting people, have a field day. If you want to change my mind, please don't waste your time.

In a more general aspect:

Well, my political party is me - c'est moi. The democratic party bosses are still in control in my view, and the party will have to be wrested from their dead fingers in about twenty or thirty years, by which time I will have been long long gone. Enjoy your brief moments, all those who think there's a new day in the party. You are doing and thinking exactly what the bosses want you to do and think. This is one election disappointment I won't have to face. You have my sympathy (but I'll bet you want to throw it back in my face, huh? How did I know?)

bethy:

I think Hillary has been fighting for an end to the Republican policies that have left our Country in a much worse position than we were 8 years ago.

And I tend to save my insults for people that insult me - and you do not fall into that category.

Gordo,

I'm not yet convinced that you're an actual human. Almost every post I see from you is an anti-Obama hyperlink. You're kind of like those scrolling marquees in Times Square.

Don't need lies - have plenty of sleazy truths about Obama.

With Obama, there is so much to go after - he is a gift for the Repub Attack/Smear machine.

Gordo:

We know you are against Obama.

But what are you for?

Craig – I always knew you were in the tank for HRC and this misleading story just proves it. HRC is claiming the popular vote by discounting the caucus states and including FL and MI. As you know, the MI primary was not sanctioned by the DNC and not counted into any official totals.

I thought you were a better journalist than that. You need to change your name to LANNY DAVIS. This story sounds more like him, Ickes, or Bill Clinton. Where is your integrity man. At least show some journalistic ethics when you write a story before you lose ALL credibilty - although right now it is very limited.

I know HRC supporters are desperate to get her onto his ticket but it would never happen. Obama has a large block on independent voters who will desert him should he pick her. Additionally, many of his supporters would desert him because it would diminish his message to his supporters. HRC has managed to offend many of Obama’s supporters by her divisive and hateful language and overall treatment of Obama and his supporters. That statement two weeks ago about RFK and assassination was over the top. No matter what she was trying to say, those comments were hurtful and offensive. Her response – not apologize but project and blame Obama and the media for twisting her words. Indeed Wolfson was on TV practically demanding an apology from Obama for her comments and his “incorrect” interpretation of them.

And just when you think the Clintons will go quietly away, there is Bubba making statements accusing Obama of being behind the priest comments on HRC and the Vanity Fair article. These people are nuts and if they cannot control themselves within the confines of a primary, just think about what they will do if they have access to the White House again.

Oh, another reason why HRC will never be his vp - Michelle.

Even Msnbc admits Hillary winspop vote, evenwithout Mich.

Barack Obama sought the New Party's endorsement knowing it was a radical left organization

" ...Obama used his radical left connections to get elected to the Illinois State Senate.

Throughout its creation and rise, the New Party sought to unite alienated leftists who had grown disgusted by Bill Clinton’s embrace of the center-left Democratic Leadership Council."

http://www.redstate.com/stories/elections/2008/barack_obama_sought_the_new_partys_endorsement_knowing_it_was_a_radical_left_organization

Craig, another cute & clever video!

tt

When there was an ad on KO I turned to Bill O. I give Scott McClellan a lot of credit. He held his place when Bill O. kept trying to SPIN his words and intent.

That Bill O's such a freakin' jerk. "No Spin Zone", my ass.

tt

A populist such as my man Dennis Kucinich probably would not even deny he is "Left".
Hillary Clinton is more a centrist except for her foreign policy...she is a right winger on the war and in her steadfast dedication to Zionism , to the point of bragging how she would have obliterated Iran it they made a move on Israel, which I took to mean she would probably bomb Iran on general principles.

Calling Obama a liberal or a "leftist" is simply ludicrous. He is the darling of big business, not held in as high esteem as Hillary by most labor unions, and has been throwing barbs at Iran for at least five years.

David Geffen threw Hillary under the bus a long time ago , and Hollywood in general is all for Obama.

Hillary Clinton was the candidate of the working people of the industrial states, union or not.

Obama has the students and the idealists, who think "change" actually means something. Seasoned voters know it means nothing ...just a theme to campaign on.

So Hillary, a centrist, was the choice of workers and women, and Obama wins the nod with hope and hope for change, concepts he'll have to decide.

John McBush is another story, as now he tries to say he is NOT McBush, when he embraces the President right down the line , especially on the war.

We must vote Obama in or not risk, but be ensured we will have 4 years of Bush facing us if McBush is elected.
So Obama is a leftist, eh? He has not spoken ONE WORD that would even hint he is a liberal or leftist..nothing!
Nobody knows who his Cabinet will be, who will be the advisers he listens to.
He' not pro-labor, pro-Palestine, for a gun-ban...actually he's not said much about anything but "change".
We have to vote for him, though...take a chance. McBush and his "Never Surrender" policy will get thousands more killed.

GORDO, the Repub dogs always love to tear into ANY Dem cat. That's what they live for. It's their life blood. Their raison d'être.

tt

Michelle Obama Whitey transcript

Reported verbiage from Michelle Obama’s tape

“Once again, the white man keeps us down, what’s up with Whitey, Why’d he attack Iraq, Why’d he let Katrina happen, Why’d he leave millions of children behind. This is the legacy the white man gives us”

http://www.mytowntalks.com/politics/michelle-obama-whitey-transcript.php

Two things I worry about:
1) Students get excited easily, but rarely vote in election-turning numbers...disadvantage Obama.

2) Diabolic repuggs fucking-up the voting machines, making sure Dem. strongholds run out of ballots, closing polling places early, causing phony disturbances in areas of high residence of African Americans to scare them from going to vote...all the bullshit we had here in Ohio in 2004, going country-wide.

Gordo; 3:04 am...

Why would you bother to explain to the closed-minded, they don't give a plugged nickel whether your right or wrong, they just want to whine about how hard done by their candidate is.

Purdum IS a "slimy, sleazy, scumbag", just the timing of this thing should tell anyone with half a brain that much. Typical Obama campaign politics at work.

We haven't seen much of prince O-bots old lady lately, they must be keeping her under wraps because of her very, big, very nasty mouth.

Mr. Crawford: Abrams is such a jerk, nobody at MSNBC wants to hear that she might still have a chance. Because of the "pimping their daughter" remarks, and all the vitriol spewed by Keith Olbermann, and Nora O'Donnell, they wouldn't have access for 4 years. No wonder Matthews is trying on some left-handed compliments......

Geez, this is breaking my heart, I'm so sad for her..

Whatever people may think of Bill and his "moral lapses" to begin with they are nobody else's business.

Secondly he was good president, not a good puppet, which is exactly why they're afraid of her.

Thirdly, again, as in 2000, here we are with the wrong candidate winning , once again the people are undone by the sleazeballs running the party. So I'm really sad for myself as well.

I believe it's time for a shake-up in the democratic party since what's been going on bears absolutely no resemblance to democracy. Pericles said once that "democracy was mob rule," I'm beginning to believe it.

If Barrack loses one of the tow contests today...he is in serious trouble.

HRC my nominee....

If winners cannot take all in the Democratic Party, why should the presidential nomination winner get all the power when it comes to picking a running mate?

The DNC has a choice here.

So far, all I've heard is that Obama is the only one who can choose his vice presidential candidate, They act as though he doesn't even have to consider Hillary. To me that means they don't give much weight to her voters, somwhere between seventeen and eighteen million of us.

If they perpetuate this as their only choice, then they will show us the rest of what we need to know. The last piece of the puzzle will be in place.

Mission accomplished.

Calling Dr. Doom

"So my role today is Dr. Doom — to break through unmerited confidence and raise the anxiety level in both camps."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/opinion/03brooks.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Craig, You were great on Abrams last night.
As usual, they didn't give you enough time.
I can't stand that other guy and they have
him on all the time. He kept interrupting
you (and he really hates Hillary).
Thanks for sticking up for her.

Chloe: I suppose Obama will crunch the numbers and guestimate how many votes he will lose by having Hillary on the ticket versus how many votes he could hope to gain. Obama is running on the new politics of Hope and Change and he painted HIllary as old and the More of the Same (frankly, he lumped her together with John McCain and George Bush.) I just don't know how having her on the ticket gives consistency to his message of New Politics. That is the highlight of his platform. He isn't running on experience. And, frankly, I think he is going to have to leave the judgment argument at the curb as well. So HIllary on the ticket just seems too incongruous to his supporters and so, I don't think she will be offered the position.

South Dakota Democratic Primary ARG* Obama 34, Clinton 60 Clinton +26.0
Montana Democratic Primary ARG* Obama 48, Clinton 44 Obama +4.0

In South Dakota, Obama was up 12 points about a month ago, now she's up a wopping 26 points.

In Montana, less than 2 weeks ago he was up 17 points and now only 4 points.

The pattern continues.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/latestpolls/index.html

Chloe: If she wins in South Dakota, that is going to be a huge blow to Obama. I don't see it happening but, if it did, holy cow.

Don't waste your time talking to the moronic O-bots who think they can win with their droll comments on a blog

Lobby people who matter

http://www.lobbydelegates.com/

I don't think it is fair Trailmix got assigned the dumbest of the dumb Obama spewers

So HIllary on the ticket just seems too incongruous to his supporters and so, I don't think she will be offered the position.
Posted by: Ally

Ally, I agree. It would be a strange pairing.
And I don't really care. If it's offered to her, then I trust her judgment on what to do.

But to pretend that she can't be nominated for veep at the Convention, in spite of what Obama wants, is just that, a pretension. Having her name thrown in there doesn't guarantee she'll get the vote either. I hadn't even thought about it until Jack brought it up yesterday. That she has enough votes that it could be done.

Chuck Todd is on MOJO stating (as has been heard several times over these last weeks and months) that the isn't the Clintons' party anymore. This is Obama's party. Will it still be Obama's party in the Fall if he loses? Then whose party is it? Parties don't belong to politicians. Parties belong to the people. And the way Democrats have determined that there is a new coalition that doesn't need to include certain core groups is why I believe they could lose on the Fall and WILL lose members between now and then (including me).

Chloe: A convention nomination would really be something!

Should have read, "that THIS isn't". Sorry.

Yes it would.
Guess we'll have to wait and see.

BethyBoo

Cast a goofy vote. If you just stay home all that happens is "turn out" from one year is compared to "turn out" of another year. It makes no statement at all. Voting for a 3rd party is saying that neither candidate of the major parties is acceptable to you.

If you are going to pick a 3rd, try to pick one that mirrors your own beliefs as closely as possible. I'll probably go Green, but there will be several from which to choose and you can look them up on the web for info.

Technically the Democratic Party leader is John Kerry
as the last presidential candidate but of course he's a loser. Befoe that Al Gore. It's been a long time since the Clintons were party leaders which explains why the current leaders are such losers

Obamabots better learn the lyrics to the Leslie Gore song November is going to a lonely time for them

f she wins in South Dakota, that is going to be a huge blow to Obama. I don't see it happening but, if it did, holy cow.
Posted by: Ally

Ally, I didn't see this post before.
With those numbers, I'll be surprised if she doesn't win South Dakota. I'm even hoping she will pull of a surprise in Montana (although I'm not counting on it).

Cast a goofy vote. http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/dem-rules-say-winners-dont-tak.html#comment-94450

Jamie,
I hadn't thought of it like that. I've been fluctuating back and forth. But you've given me an alternative that still means something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_third_party_presidential_candidates,_2008

Lots of choices besides Oblah and McBush

Dexter

"she would have obliterated Iran it they made a move on Israel"

You are entitled to your opinion. You are NOT entitled to your own set of facts.

She said she would "obliterate" Iran if they used a nuclear weapon on Israel. An atom bomb in the middle of Tel Aviv is hardly "making a move on"

Someone posted this last night.

Swing State Polls
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/polltracker/2008/05/swing-state-polls-have-bad-new.html
http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=425

Good stuff.

This notion that Hillary is the candidate of the working class is based on a short-sighted view of history.

She did not start out that way. She was the establishment candidate at the beginning if anyone can remember back that far. And John Edwards was the candidate of the working class.

She filled a hole that opened up after he got out of the race.

And all the so-called party "leaders" and "bosses" are politicians. And they would have lined up behind whoever won this race.

Craig (or some other wise individual),

The other day I asked if someone had a figure on what the pledged delegate count would be if the system of proportionality was not in effect.

Does anyone know where that question has been asked and answered??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_third_party_presidential_candidates,_2008

Lots of choices besides Oblah and McBush
Posted by: No Party Party

Thanks No Party. More good stuff.

Kelcey Wilson Transparency advocate.[19][20] Announced candidacy February 19, 2007, on his blog

My candidate

Flatus,
I'm definitely not some other wise individual, but all I've heard is that the weighted delegates made a difference but wouldn't have totally changed the outcome. Haven't seen it figured on Demconwatch or RCP or anywhere else. But bet ya some one has done so, and that we'll eventually see the results.

Kelcey Wilson Transparency advocate.[19][20] Announced candidacy February 19, 2007, on his blog No Party Party

I, for one, will check out Kelcey Wilson.

Warren: Her rhetoric may have turned up a notch after Edwards got out but, as someone who attended her rallies in Iowa beginning on July 3, 2007 and then on numerous occasions for the rest of the year, she ALWAYS spoke for the working class. The media may have chosen not to reflect this stance, but it was her position the entire campaign.

Technically the Democratic Party leader is John Kerry
Posted by: Kerry's Party
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/dem-rules-say-winners-dont-tak.html#comment-94451

So Kerry's Party, you don't agree with Craig's assessment, that the DNC took the power away from the Clinton's and passed it onto Obama?

Warren doesn't even remember the crap he spews out let alone facts about this campaign.

He pulls stuff out of his ass and when he gets called on his crap runs away, changes the subject or tries to pretend he never said it.

Not worth a conversation he makes stuff up because he is two years old and doesn't understand the world wasn't created in Obama's image or last week.

ALL Democrats espouse positions that are favorable to the working class.

I have been listening to Obama from the beginning as well - and he has always had a populist message.

Obambot:

You snark and insults are far from facts and all you do is stir up trouble.

You are the one not worth a conversation - since all you do is talk to yourself.

The Democratic Party hasn't been the Clinton Party for years . If it was still the party of the Clinton's the

in 2000 would have been a lot different.
The Bush team would have been on the defensive.
In 2004 they would have fought for Ohio and now pranced around and given up like the lose Kerry.

Now the Democratic Party is a Dr. Dean's and the left wing. There is a fissure between party activists and the Congressional Democrats led by the spineless.

Politically Pissed

"Secondly he was good president, not a good puppet, which is exactly why they're afraid of her."

Pretty much my attitude. I'm a centrist with left leaning social opinions and she was a perfect fit as a candidate.

It would help if the Obama crowd wasn't working so hard yesterday and today to keep me angry. They are doing everything possible to depress turnout in the last two states because they want a talking point tonight in case he loses one or both contests. Combine that with the whoop de do gloatfest tonight instead of being a gentleman and do an "across the line" announcement tomorrow is just showing more of the Axelrod via Rove via Atwater gutter politics.

Right Warren
you come around and fill up pages of posts with crap
you add nothing because there are not facts in anything you post

Tell me again how Obama is going to do well with the Hispanic community and where is that Southern strategy.

Word matter. Although not yours because there are no facts to support anything you say

I have been listening to Obama from the beginning as well - and he has always had a populist message.Posted by: warren

Then, warren, he should have no problem reeling them in.
Right?

Warren doesn't know what a populist is

He thinks politics in the US was invented by Obama

Did I miss anything?

Combine that with the whoop de do gloatfest tonight instead of being a gentleman and do an "across the line" announcement tomorrow is just showing more of the Axelrod via Rove via Atwater gutter politics. Posted by: Jamie

Jamie, you have such a way with words.
I never tire of reading your posts.
Oh yeah, I also agree.

If Obama is talking like a populist he stole it from the Edwards campaign

Did I miss anything? Posted by: sturgeone |

I always do. I just can't keep up.

Did I miss anything?

Posted by: sturgeone | June 3, 2008

SS, DD

Obama the Populist talking to his rich donors:

They won't vote for me, because they aren't smart enough to know how GREAT I am. They just keep clinging to their guns and religion, and feel antipathy toward others who aren't like them.

Translated: The working class are a bunch of gun toting, bible thumping, uneducated and unenlightened, bigots. But they'll come around.

Is that his populist message?

Part of Obama's populist message is that Warren Buffet's secretary should not be paying a higher income tax rate than Buffet himself. A line of that Hillary began to use as well.

warren

Buffet is a Clinton supporter and she used that line
he stole that from her

you are an idiot

Obama has also proposed a $1000 tax break for Middle Class families.

Part of Obama's populist message is that Warren Buffet's secretary should not be paying a higher income tax rate than Buffet himself Posted by: warren

Well, us dummies in the Working Class just aren't quite getting it.
Is that our fault or his.?

Warren Buffett helps put on Clinton fundraiser - Hillary Clinton ...Jun 27, 2007 ... Hillary Rodham Clinton D-N.Y., speaks at a fundraiser to support her presidential bid, Tuesday, as billionaire businessman Warren Buffett ...
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19453750/

Obama has another Rev to worry about:

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/

Define middle class income level

A few weeks ago the guy who made the famous Willie Horton ad said he has new ads that make that one look like a the minor leagues. With all of Obama's relationships I can see him foaming at the mouth to get these ads written and on the air.

mornin' all.

Folks the proof will be in the pudding. Forget for a moment the 527 Repug attack machine that is gearing up as we speak. If Obama can make his 48 state strategy that Cliburn talked about this morning (which 2 aren't included?) work, he just might pull this off. But I am skeptical.

Warren, you are delusional if you think that the Obama populist message you seem to have heard is ringing with the voters. Aside from AA votiers, where do you see that reflecgted? If he isn't getting the white, blue collar male vote, and he's not, he doesn't have a populist message that is ringing with the people who actually vote and who (along with old farts) the Dems have ridden to what few victories they've had in Pres races post Reagan. If he can't shore up his support among the white working class, Hispanics (Richardson helped him there, didn't he?) and bitter old women, he'll be found in the same footnote in presidential history that Dukakis, Gore and Kerry can be found in.

And if he wins one southern state (I'll define that as states that were members of the confederacy) other than possibly SC, I will be amazed.

Has everyone forgotten that the constitution originally made the second place electoral college vote getter the Vice President? It took the founding fathers only a few cycles to recognize the stupidity of that method.

Hungry dogs will eat dirty pudding.

It's sad that we are going to be watching these ads and they will have some kind of affect on the outcome. If you have any plans when growing up to run for political office you got to be careful who you surround yourself with. Even if you disagree with them they can come back and bite you. We are seeing it now first hand. For Obama's sake I hope he can handle it, because the attack machine is loaded up and is already firing away even though we are 150 or so days away.

win SC?? pogo pogo......step away from the bar.....it's too early for alcohol........

A little ditty for Warren and his crush Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OwkQPSsIxc

If he can't shore up his support among the white working class, Hispanics (Richardson helped him there, didn't he?) and bitter old women, he'll be found in the same footnote in presidential history that Dukakis, Gore and Kerry can be found in. pogo

But pogo, he already said he doesn't need us. So we must be missing something. dah.

Robert P

You beat me to the historical reference. The idea at the beginning was that there would be no political parties, cliques or coalitions ... just the citizen politician serving the nation and then going home. As such, the Senate would vote and the top jobs would go to number one and number two

As with almost all pie in the sky idealism, it didn't take long for this idea to crash and burn on the land mass of reality. It took a long time before Mr. Adams and Mr. Jefferson were speaking again.

To Jay in Washington DC :

I don't see how pointing out the illogic and inconsistency in the way the Democratic Party chooses a candidate and wondering if that same illogic shouldn't apply to choosing a VP puts Craig in the "Tank for HRC".

That $1000 tax break sounds a bit Bushian dontchathink? Bush's tax incentive phased out as income level rose. That's populist? And comparing tax rates - yeah, if you're talking about making the tax code actually progressive again, irrespective of source of income, that could be considered a populist message, but that's not what he's done. McCain will beat him over the head with it as poor economic fundamentals in the face of a looming recession. His sounds more like the flat taxers, although I don't think that's wat he has in mind.

sturg, my bud. I didn't say he would win SC, I just think it';s the only southern state he has a shade of a prayer in.

btw, did you watch LP's youtube ditty? whatcha think?

Good Day to all,

Busy day for me. Just wanted to step up to the bar and wish you all a great primary day.

I speak for my fellow Obamas in my little part of the Obama campaign, that we wish you success and now on to Tomorrow's NYC Wednesday Something!

On MOJO this morning they were talking about how the general public doesn't know Obama very well. Now he needs to get to know the people on a "front porch" basis. After 17 months of this campaign and two-thirds of the TVs in this country hooked up to a little thing I like to call CABLE, there is more to this story than people not "knowing him very well."

If you have any plans when growing up to run for political office you got to be careful who you surround yourself with.
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/dem-rules-say-winners-dont-tak.html#comment-94491

Vadaryl,

These weren't acquaintances he had when he was growing up. He made and bonded these relationships AFTER he was old enough to know better. Don't you see that as bad judgment, whether you're running for president or not?

Choices are judgment. And the working class can see this on a gut level. They don't need someone to tell them what to think.

Oh, and on MSNBC yesterday they literally said that Obama needs to start talking about the fact that he grew up eating Jello salad. He needs to talk to the Olive Garden and Applebees crowd. Um, this is what makes people who live in the middle want to throw our Wonder Bread and Velveeta at the TV.

"...there is more to this story than people not "knowing him very well..." Posted by: Ally | June 3, 2008 9:22 AM

And the cement has settled.

Pogo.......ha ha .....kidding you ......it's never too early for alcohol........

Yes watched it couple of times............young guys.....reminds me of my younger self (except my younger self was playing in dives and strip joints).......

though I will re-iterate: If one's plan is to be a rock star, reading music is not essential......if one's plan is to be a "working musician" reading at least charts is a must....

As in what do you call a guitar player who breaks up with his girl friend?

Homeless.

being a musician is a great way to pay your way thru college.....much else not so great........

Has anyone here, besides me, ever thought about what 8 years of this divisiveness would be like?

If the primary has been like this, what will it be like if he becomes president and leads the country. Won't it get even worse?

Does that worry anyone else?

LOLOLOL @ Wonder Bread and Velveeta 8~D

Craig,

As usual you on right on the money.
Hillary has 17 million supporters(most in historical terms) who will support Hillary to the convention. This is unpresidented time in political history, a canditate with the popular vote has to fight to get the nomination thanks to the Democratic arcatic rules of the primaries. We are not Obama supporters, and yes we not all women, we are men like me, who will vote for Mccain.

As in what do you call a guitar player who breaks up with his girl friend?

Homeless.
sturgeone

You outdid yourself on that one. Never heard it.
Who said we don't have a sense of humor around here

Thank god you clarified that ... LOL.

He's more interested in being a rockstar (or a pro basketball or soccer player), but Mom the piano player is making sure he learns to read charts. At 11, he knows about as much about what he might do as I did - at 30.

I also have a musician son. The mantra in this house is: "You are not going to be a music major. You are not going to be a music major. You are not going to be a music major."

mel7, as Alex Bennett noted yesterday (and he hates all 3 candidates) put McCain in the WH and you can kiss the constitution goodbye, and this morning he said (correctly in my opinion) you can feel good about having had a personal role in overturning Roe v. Wade.

What a sorry day. The least qualified candidate wins. On 9/11 we never heard of BHO and he could be the POTUS? What a dumb party I used to be a member of. Hey Ms. Brazile will you still resign too? The sd's will put YOUR CHOICE over even though he doesn't have the most votes. Were you not afraid of that? She was scary on SAT. I wouldn't want to meet her in a dark alley! But of course she was "UNDECLARED". I will vote McCain. Stuff your judges argument. It's been used before in 2000 and 2004 and the country would rather have a beer with GWB. So I guess we would rather bowl with BHO.The Dems and Media were so rotten to a former successful president. I think I'll move to a classier team.

One thing to remember for the Obama folks. Even if he goes across the line tonight, in "probable" delegates, he is still not the nominee. According to the rules all of the SDs who have committed to him can change their mind at any point between now and that first ballot. in Denver.

Is this likely? No
Could it happen? Darn right

Right now Axelrod is probably on his knees praying that there is no "macaca moment" out there anywhere or if one exists, he has bought and destroyed them all.

The media sucks but Obama used the rightwing narrative to assault the Clintons.

What goes around comes around

Pogo
Aren't you being a little hysterical. McCain is not Bush or the Neocon wing of the party. He is not a movement conservative and he owes little to the wingnuts in his party.

Jack

The survey question for the day:

What will Hillary do tonight?

I think she will suspend her campaign. But keep it open just in case a bombshell happens.

I hear "Roller Derby" has some pretty classy teams.......

Liza, she participated in the South Carolina Ambush along with Minority Whip Clyburn, I'm certain sure that once the dust settles and people are willing to brag, that the facts on how SC voters were mislead then shepherded into the Obama camp will be revealed.

I think I'll move to a classier team.
Posted by: Liza | June 3, 2008 9:40 AM

Or just stay Independent. That way everyone will have to work for your vote. Maybe then, your opinion will matter to them.

Ally, I don't face that possibility. He hates music in the academic setting (thank god - if I hear Hot Cross Buns on a recorder again I think I'll commit hara kari), although he has mentioned looking into the college his guitar teacher went to in LA, where he majored in guitar.

Flatus
There are going to be some interesting tell all books after this election. Even worse if Obama goes down in flames and the two sides start the final battle in earnest.
Jack

First before I forget... Thank you Chloe. I appreciate the kind words.

Vadaryl - I'm voting for suspension not concession. She will campaign for him, but those earned delegates are staying in her pocket even if all the SDs flip to him for the simple reason that they can all come back at any point in the next 60 days or so.

Working Class-great point. But this time McCain gets it.

that the facts on how SC voters were mislead then shepherded into the Obama camp will be revealed. Posted by: Flatu

Since the primary has been so riveting, can you imagine what the movie will be like.

we read from many Obama supporters and in the Media to purge the Democratic Party of its Clinton Wing is the thinking of the Obama campaign. Last night, Josh Marshall provided a variation on this theme:

I think the most revealing thing . . . is that Bill refers to the youtube viral video of Rev. Pfleger as "the movie." In a sense, of course, this is just a triviality of word choice; he's a little out of touch with the lingo. But for me -- maybe just the personal prism through which I see the drama -- it communicates the larger truth: that Bill is a man out of his time, out of his element, which is something painful to watch and must be a unique agony for him to experience.
I find this a dangerous attitude for two main reasons. First, because Marshall seems prepared to toss out the Democratic strength of being able to point to the Clinton Presidency as an example of Democratic governance. Second, it seems to me to show a real contempt for older people, who, in case people have forgotten, STILL vote in higher numbers that the much vaunted youth vote. It is a dangerous game to play. More.

I agree that she suspends and holds on to those delegates...

Jack, what, do you think McCain would nominate liberal justices to replace retiring liberals on the court? Not in your lifetime or mine. MAYBE he would pick right of center moderates, but his party would have a fit and he'd lose their support for his legislative agenda. Am I being hysterical? I don't think so. I think I'm being realisitic.

Next survey question:

Who will you vote for?

This is tough, I am now leaning towards McCain. I know think about the Supreme Court, but I have a problem with all of Obama's relationships and his lack of experience.

Obama. And I hate it.

what is "killfile"?

What should HRC do

First, tell Bill to get his hound dog butt over to his foundation to do what ever he does there.
Tell the staff to take the next few days and fine tune their resumes. Don't drop by don't call.

Then call Benito the hunk of a pool boy and tell him things are in bad shape and would he come over and put things right. Fill the Jacuzzi, Place a fully stocked bar close by. Plan on a week of total bliss.

Jack

Since this has been a crazy primary season on both sides, would it be nuts if McCain asked Hillary to be his running mate. Why not, Kerry asked McCain! Of course McCain is a party man and said no but I am not so sure Hillary would react the same way.

" In a sense, of course, this is just a triviality of word choice; he's a little out of touch with the lingo. But for me -- maybe just the personal prism through which I see the drama -- it communicates the larger truth: that Bill is a man out of his time Posted by: Karma | June 3, 2008 9:57 AM

Nothing annoys me more than these kind of statements. What' the difference what Bill calls it, movie, clip, video, who cares. We all know what he's talking about.

And Karma is right.
It does reinforce what this great new bunch have been saying all along. It's time for the new generation to replace the old.

They can't seem to grasp the idea that there is no definite divide. One becomes the other. And it will take a long time before they're in the position to understand this.

Who will I vote for?

The Supreme Court!!!!!
(which means OBAMA!!!!!)

Hey Jack,

Do you have her number? Once she's through with Benito ...

Hey all.

I've got "Dig for Fire" by the Pixies stuck in my head this morning. I wonder if there's any significance to this...somehow I think there is.

killfile
Provides a killfile for certain blogs. Covers livejournal, haloscan comments, most typepad blogs, most blogspot blogs, scienceblogs.com, and more as I add them. Trolls can be killfiled with a single click.

Foxfire has program that makes it very easy
Someone else posted about the same tool on yahoo.

But Chloe, you must also acknowledge that age does not necessarily equal wisdom, which I've seen argued here quite frequently. See: John McCain

Plan on a week of total bliss. Jack

Jack,

that is pretty much the same thing Maggisd said yesterday.

I agreed with it then and I agree with it now.

I think I'll copy and paste your post and send it on over to the Hillary campaign.

But Chloe, you must also acknowledge that age does not necessarily equal wisdom, which I've seen argued here quite frequently. See: John McCain Posted by: Politics of Utopia

And you just changed the subject.

d

jay washington dc, it's comments like yours that make me feel that I will write in Hillary in November. The arrogant attitude that Obama will get Hillary's supporters, but Hillary won't get Obama's supporters burns me. If independent voters who are for Obama wouldn't vote for him because he had Hillary on the ticket, then they aren't really that much of what you would call "supporters" are they?

I am a pessimist this time. I think the "politics of unity" crap is just that... and unless Hillary has a prominent role in this campaign, HER supporters will leave in droves. It never ceases to amaze me how Obama supporters arrogantly feel they can win the election even if Hillary's supporters refuse to "fall in line".

What do you all make of NYPost's "Hillary's One Chance At Redemption" piece?

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06032008/news/columnists/hillarys_one_chance_at_redemption_113777.htm

The Obamabots have no idea what to do now.
There whole campaign is built on Clinton hate and the media narrative that accompanied it.

McCain is loved by the media. He is just as protected as Reagan -- another teflon candidate. He has already survived the attack about the lobbyists.

foxfire is your friend,
hurray for killfile.

Obama shat on the party by lying about Clinton, if he wants to repair the rifts that is his responsibility

He was the one who claimed his supporters would bolt. He claimed he would get Clinton supporters but his voters would only vote for him

Somethings just don't work out. We survived Bush you cannot scare me into voting for Obama who is a liar at least we know what McCain stands for

Karma: I respectfully disagree. Media favoritism for Obama will override any lingering good feelings for 2000-era McCain. They will see him as senile, robot, ghoulish, irrelevant candidate - especially juxtaposed with Obama's youth and charisma.

Carville this morning:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/06/03/am.carville.primary.preview.cnn

Who will I vote for?

The Supreme Court!!!!!
(which means OBAMA!!!!!)

Posted by: harborwoman | June 3, 2008 10:11 AM

Us poor working class don't understand.

You know, the two sides on this list (I'm excluding McCain supporters for the moment) are arguing over personalities...neither of whom really gives a rat's patootie about either you as individuals or you as a group.

I am appalled that such seemingly intelligent people cannot see what is happening to our country. As deregulation (yes, thanks to the corporate ownership of so many of our politicians) increases, we the people become less and less important. And that will continue right up to the point that the uber-wealthy among us realize their mistake in robbing the middle class of the capability of purchasing the goods that kept them rich...but by then it will be too late to repair the damage. We'll be well on our way to becoming just another third world country.

I can't believe anyone who's been on this list for the past few years can even contemplate a vote for anyone other than the Democratic nominee. You're angry, and you're not thinking, IMO.... We have to vote for our best chance to turn things around, and it's not McCain...not because he's not an unusual Republican (he is!), but because he will of necessity be surrounded by the usual Republicans. I'm not even sure a Democrat can do what needs to be done to save the USA, but the odds are better with a Democrat in office.

And damn, I'm sick of watching as you fight the same fights every blessed day. Your arguments have nothing to do with making this a better country for the masses, and everything to do with hurt feelings over two candidates who only know you exist because you vote.

"They will see him as senile, robot, ghoulish, irrelevant candidate"

I love these volunteer college kids

Jack

Working class...

Your reported failure to understand is one of my greatest fears!

Carville's no more than shallow, insipid, shill for Clinton. I love this absurd logic: "If she pulls an upset it'll be one of the greatest moments in political history." Typical Clinton logic: every state is a game-changer.

They will see him as senile, robot, ghoulish, irrelevant candidate - Posted by: Politics of Utopia | June 3, 2008 10:21

You're confusing your own thoughts and feelings with the Media's.

Don't reflect that trash onto anyone else.

Jack: are you trying to argue that McCain *isn't* slightly senile, robotic, ghoulish, and irrelevant?

Carville's no more than shallow, insipid, shill for Clinton. Politics of Utopia

And what are you for Obama?

Don't reflect that trash onto anyone else.

Posted by: chloe

Who the hell are you? Trash? Are you urging me to have respect for McCain? I don't get it. If by trash you mean that you think my analysis of McCain's image is flawed and offense, then fine. But state what you mean.

Your reported failure to understand is one of my greatest fears!
Posted by: harborwoman

As it should be.
And no one in the Obama campaign is doing much to clarify it either. Yet alone, opening it's welcoming arms to those it has so far deemed undeserving.

chloe,

But Carville is shallow and insipid. He's a celebrity pundit, doing Coke commercials, selling Captain Morgan's, etc. His legacy as a Clinton guru makes him a shill for her campaign.

What am I?

I'm an Obama supporter. But the difference is that I'm not being paid to discuss my analysis, and I'm not given the undeserved ethos that Carville receives by being broadcast on a major cable network.

I can't say I won't vote for Obama... to be honest I am all over the board on it. But my personal preference is to write in Hillary and tell the Obama people to sod-off

I am trying to find a way to be comfortable to vote for Obama. I do believe that the fighting in blogs has also caused me to want to entrench myself and said "you can assume all the votes you want, but YOU WON'T GET MINE!"

And if Hillary really got the most popular vote, that shame on the Democrats. We all went ballistic when Gore had the most popular votes in 2000 and Bush-tard was declared President.

That's all I have to say...

Who the hell are you? Trash? Posted by: Politics of Utopia

Where I come from, the "words" you used to describe McCain are called trash words. They showed a lack of respect that should never have been shown on any human being, whether they're running for president or not.

PoU

He is none of those. He is a tough capable opponent.
Only the foolish would believe such a statement.
Axelrod doesn't believe it, he knows he has the political fight of his life on his hands.

Jack

Where I come from, the "words" you used to describe McCain are called trash words. They showed a lack of respect that should never have been shown on any human being, whether they're running for president or not.

Posted by: chloe

Ok. That's all I needed to know.

chloe, But Carville is shallow and insipid. Posted by: Politics of Utopia Author Profile Page | June 3, 2008 10:33 AM

Then you should get along well with one another.

Jack,

This is where we disagree. He will not be a hip candidate. Politics is all about image, and McCain's image is one of a slow-moving, ghoulish, old man. I think that's how many Americans will view him. The old patriotic has-been v. the young kennedy-esque reformer.

You think this is about issues? Would that it were true.

Chloe,

Which Firefox add-on are you using for your killfile?

Flatus,
Point taken.

Is Rev. Meeks destined to go under the Obama bus?

" ...Sen. Obama's third spiritual adviser, Rev. James Meeks, pastor of Chicago's Salem Baptist Church.

Rev. Meeks better watch his back, the bus may well be on its way. Why, you ask?

Well, Rev. Meeks, pastor of a 20,000-member church, has "called white American mayors 'slave masters,' and referred to black preachers and politicians who 'protect' the 'white man' as 'house n-ggers'," ...

...open letter to Sen. Obama from John Norris, on behalf of the LGBT community, requesting that Obama ask "'stridently anti-gay' delegate Reverend James Meeks resign"."

http://rezkowatch.blogspot.com/2008/06/is-rev-meeks-destined-to-go-under-obama.html

P-U,

Carville is shallow and insipid? Never. He is incredibly focused and loyal to a fault. He's the type of person I'd want covering my back.

PoU

Once you leave college Hip does not rule the world

Jack

Gordo the robot strikes again. Ah, my day just wouldn't be as bright without you coming in to drop off more legless propaganda.

Thanks, Chloe.

Jack

That's a very naive way of looking at things. Look at Obama's success over Clinton. After all, for you Clinton folks, isn't one of your primary objections to Obama that he's all image, rhetoric, etc.? He's a good package. Look at Kennedy v. Nixon. Clinton v. Bush, Dole. Bush v. Gore. I'm not arguing that "hipness" should be the only metric, but it's a damn good indicator of how successful you will be in politics in the (postmodern) age of the almighty image.

ET, I have a possible answer for you - become an issues voter and forget about the personalities of the candidates and their supporters. If McCain best reflects your postion on the issues you deem important, by all means, vote for him. If you think Obama does, vote for him. It's the approach I have to take to vote for Obama - and in the end I will have pissed my vote away anyway - he ain't gonna win WV.

Working class...

You're right, of course, but it isn't just the Obama campaign that's failing to clarify the decline this country is suffering. All of the campaigns take for granted that those who 'do not understand' are people they can manipulate into voting for them by pandering to either their hopes or their fears...whichever they believe will be most likely to garner the largest number of votes.

I wish I knew how to educate EVERYONE...and I mean really educate them...not teach them to think the way I think, but to think for themselves. Critical thinking! A skill I fear far too few exercise anymore.

Funny enough, given our conversation about college kiddos, I've got to teach. Check back in later. Take care!

Oh noesssss
it is almost the anniversary of the death of RFK the Obama campaign is going to be very busy telling everyone to STFU because it might hurt their feelings.

Rev James Meeks attacks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YreqXaTOZRk

(This is great for the Repubs - what a gift!)

Too little too late

We are not from Stockholm.
You made your campaign.

I've got to teach. Check back in later. Take care!

no wonder young people are idiots

I see the ap story on the front page of cnn.com

No matter what, Obama doesn't have it all....and that is worrying many a dem. It is because he is not the real deal. Half of the party may fake unity hoping that 'the faking it until you make it principle' will hold true.

Reading some of the posts on this list is enough to convince me that being critical lives, but critical thinking has been clubbed to death.

I have a question about this $1,000 tax cut for middle class families that Obama has promised. What if you are a single , middle-class male , no wife or kids? Do I get the tax cut or am I screwed because I'm single?

How weird, I was just thinking that Politics of Utopia was Nash, and now I think it's pretty clear that I was right...

If you don't like the arguments here . Present some.

comment of the day!

You think your shit doesn't stink?
You smell up the place with your snide remarks
and condescending attitude.

Corey...You're screwed! Enjoy it! (Sorry...couldn't resist... ;-)) )

I wish the nominee would be that hottie CSI actor who is on Obama's campaign. I forgot his name but MAN is he eye candy. I think my blood sugar just rose again! :-D

"Positive thinking doesn't sound like a very good idea to me. I'm sure it doesn't work. And if it does , it's probably real hard to do." - George Carlin

PoU, you are ignoring the fact that Obama polled 90%+ of the black vote to beat Clinton, and even at that has essentially tied her in the popular vote. Put the Republicans and independents into the mix and that demographic will not be enough to swing the election unless he can win Red states that he won in February, and I say good luck. He better find a way to appeal to the working class white voter or he will not beat McCain in November.

He's lost the bitter old white woman vote - that demographic not being as personally affected by the image of the court as they are pissed that the viable woman candidate they have waited for decades to see run for the office has been beaten using racism as a wedge by an upstart who has rejected their support in an oh, so condescending way (typical old white woman - how fucking stupid).

And the rural underemployed poor ain't exactly moving toward him in droves as they cling to their guns and religion. Those gun owners will be hearing about Obama's past position on handguns ad nauseum and listen to his hollow explanation ring hollower and hollower, and they won't buy it any more against McCain than they did against Clinton.

He has an uphill fight to win sufficient numbers of something that looks anything like broad based support in a demographic that doesn't include upscale college educated folks and African Americans that I hope his campaign recognizes and can figure out a way to attract rather than alienate - and I say good luck. They haven't done that yet.

'Sick of Sanctimony' - to whom are you referring?

David Caruso , Tom?

SOS...

You talking to me or dog? If me, I think I've presented some pretty good arguments that bear intense discussion. Try my 10:24 post for starters.

Who are the two senior officals and can they be trusted.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080603/ap_on_el_pr/clinton

I can only be (or will only allow myself to be) manipulated by a pretty woman. LOL!

The Clinton-Obama Battle Continues

"The next stage of Hillary Clinton's battle with Barack Obama is coming into focus.

It looks like Obama is going to find himself fighting a tough battle over the narrative of him that is to prevail in the public mind: ...

Hillary will be certain to take advantage of the apparent discovery of a smoking gun video clip, said to feature Michelle Obama and Louis Farrakhan bashing whitey.

That angry Michelle Obama might provide the visible potential knockout punch should not surprise us.

But now out of the video vault comes this reported bombshell just in time for the next stage of the campiagn. If I believed in coincidences, I would call it one."

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/06/the_clintonobama_battle_contin_1.html

Right, the hottie is Hill Harper.. WOW

McCauliff - Will not concede tonight!!!!

Corey, great Carlin line. LOL His brilliant moments more than make up for his cynical rants.

btw, have you seen the new Bush penny? It is silver, has George Washington on the front and a state's logo on the back, and says "Quarter Dollar" below George's profile.

They said in the local paper yesterday that Obama has been urged to campaign in Detroit which has a population of 900,000 and is 80% black. He has also been urged to campaign in Kent County because people believe it is a swing area.

Oh Gordo, for chrissakes... I know anon uses "paranoid" in his moniker... but with all due respect, you are either so afflicted or simply not getting the message that we don't give a rats-ass what the fricken right wing nut cases have to say to demonize the democrats or Mr. Obama. If Hillary would be the nominee, they would be just as relenting... So get over it already!

pogo...

Thank you for always, always displaying what it means to exercise critical thinking! I truly enjoy your posts!

I addressed my remarks to the sanctimonious.

Craig ??????????????
I'm not getting the point of today's post. The rules are the rules. Changes will only happen by those in the party (the DNC), but I doubt it is not going to happen this year.

Corey, you may be screwed, but you'd get a tax credit of up to $500 under the Obama tax plan posted on his site.

If someone has this so called tape then release it or it needs to be dropped and let's move on. It's been dragged out to long now. If we are to trust the media then they need to do their job and not tease us with this.

Hannity on his radio show said if the media is holding out on the tape the public will lose faith in them and I agree with him on that one but at the same time he's using it also to say he may or may not have it. Well it goes both ways with him too. The trust level with him is going down the tubes as long as he plays with this.

No, you addressed your remarks to your opinion about who is sanctimonious.

HW, aw, shucks.

pogo...

No sanctimony intended, just wanted you to know that I really appreciate your well-thought-out remarks.

And BTW, JP has been told of your opinion that he's a fine teacher. Hope you don't mind....

I addressed my remarks to the sanctimonious.
--Sick of Sanctimony

hilarious 8~D

Pogo did an excellent job of describing (except for the word "bitter") the groups that Sen. Obama has to convince to unify. It's not going to be easy.

per CNN:
An official statement from her campaign says she will not concede tonight. The the Ap story is incorrect.

They also said that many super delegates are waiting for her to give the word on what to do.

vadaryl

Are you, by any chance, watching the view?

For you bitter white women. :-)

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/06/white_women_take_the_gloves_of.html

Money quote, and it was hard as there were so many.

"After mounting for months, female anger over the choreographed dumping on Hillary Clinton and her supporters has exploded -- and party loyalty be damned. That the women are beginning to have a good time is an especially bad sign for Barack Obama's campaign."

Jack

Nick...

From your post, I gather you feel it's one I should make an effort at teaching. Please bear in mind that you know nothing about me...and that you may be putting your own slant on my typed words. After all, you've already decided that I'm an idiot...remember?

So who were the two officials AP were mentioning.

Linda I am not what's happening on the view

Oh it's going to be fun right down to the last minute.

ET,

"Right, the hottie is Hill Harper.. WOW"

He's the fella that plays Capt Brass??

Couldn't resist :)

Gordo, if that tape exists, it better show up soon considering how long it's been rumored to exist. I think it's a hoax and will until I see it.

Fox: Governor Rindell predicts that Hillary will be campaigning with Obama this summer (as in before the Convention)

I agree Vadaryl, this is going to be fun tonight!!!

"my opinion"

As opposed to your judgement about what is or is not critical thinking.

People come here to express their opinions. If you don't agree fine but you have no standing to make judgements about their "thinking"

Nothing but a bunch of snobs who think they are better

Linda I am not what's happening on the view
--vadaryl

Oh, nothing much...same old chat...but Whoopi announced that, according to the AP, HRC would concede to BHO tonight...and now Whoopi just said that some of HRC's "people" called to say that is not true.

female anger over the choreographed dumping on Hillary Clinton and her supporters has exploded --
Jack

Angry? Who, me?

Yeah, the definition of critical thinking here is someone who agrees with you

Flatus ... I don't know what you mean?

I've never watched the show...

SofS... I don't think such attacks are necessary. We can agree to disagree without going for the jugular... JMHO...

Fox: Governor Rindell predicts that Hillary will be campaigning with Obama this summer (as in before the Convention)

Since no one is getting any story right today, how did Rendell say she will be campaigning with Obama. It could be just one part of what he was saying. If he's the nominee then of course this summer she would be out campaigning for him, that's a given, so would he.

Obama being Lou Dobbs' new pet project is not going to help Obama with the older vote. I don't know how long he is going to go on with this tirade but he is really "going there."

Hey, SoS, IMO, you are full of what you are sick of. Everything stated here by anyone should be taken as nothing more than their opinion, whether expressed as such or not. If you have a different opinion, state it.

BTW: "Going there" in my 11:39 comment is a tribute to the Mika fans on the blog.

This forum and many like it are the a good indication of the problems in America today. The amount of vitriol and just plain junior high level name calling is preposterous.

When did we empower the idiot class? It seems today that any one who might have an intelligent point is screamed down by a bunch of morons who I wouldn't let make decisions for my dog.

Take a look at what your writing, are you really a slobbering idiot troll in real life, or has the anonymity of the Internet given you a sense of bravado that makes you write things you would never say to any one in real life. C'mon people grow up already.

There was a time when we admired educated people, today anyone who reads a book is "latte drinking elitist." Now, we are a mullet- headed society that is too stupid to understand what an ARM is and signed on the line for mortgages we could never afford, kill the environment by driving SUV bigger than any would ever need and are so worried about our "bling" that we rack up credit card bills on 20" rims and plasma TVs.

Here's a tip for all the yappers-- why don't you google the terms "Roberts Rules of Order" and "Logical Fallacies" and then, after reading up a little on civil discourse perhaps you might post in a manner that a thinking person might read your post and say to themselves "Well maybe I don't agree that, but it is a valid point."

Senator Kenned has been walking the hospital hallways and talking with friends and family. He's doing well.

Linda, looks like everyone has their eyes peeled to everything going on.

Prepare for the public "destruction" of Obama between now and the roll call vote in Denver. It's been obvious that the "fix was in" for Obama - just look at what happened on Sat at the DNC. Hillary is at war with the DNC and MSM.

See this link to an earlier post:

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/dem-rules-say-winners-dont-tak.html#comment-94611

Apparently, SoS and Karma have nothing to refute what I wrote. If you think that it's not correct, show me why you think that. Or you can just lob your juvenile pot shots.

SOS and Karma...

Please go back and read my 10:50 post. I'm not asking that you or anyone else here agree with me or think like me, but...of course...I have my own opinion of what constitutes critical thinking. And I'm confident enough of my own critical thinking skills to be pretty happy with that opinion. I'm also certain that I have as much right to post my opinions here as you do.

vadaryl

Hillary can say Obama has the delegates for nomination. She can campaign for him from here on out. That does not mean she concedes.

It's all dancing around the words, but it basically means "okay if nothing goes wrong he is the nominee and I hope he wins because I'm a Democrat but if something goes wrong before the convention, I'm still here."

What is up with people who posts little ditties like this:

"What is wrong with you stupid idiots?????!!!!!!!!!! Why can't you all be nice?"

I respect the right of anyone to post their opinion

I have no respect for people who think their opinions are better simply because THEY think they are the one they have been waiting for.

Take a look at what your writing, ...
--Wayne Junction

uhhhhh...it's you're...not "your" 8~D

maybe you're not the most qualified person to be calling other people "slobbering idiots"...LOL!!!!

I'm just sayin'... ;)

I have no respect for people who think their opinions are better simply because THEY think they are the one they have been waiting for. Posted by: Sick of Sanctimony

I can't think of any reason to disagree with that.

Worried about the Supreme Court
Talk to Patrick "Get out Clinton" Leahy and Joe Biden

The Court argument means nothing.

Those grandstanding cowards could have done something but did not.

SOS...

The problem, as I see it, is that you're creating personalities in your mind. I don't think you know what my opinions of other people are...but I do think your opinion of me is shaded by your own personality. I have trouble respecting that.

"Take a look at what your writing, ...
--Wayne Junction

uhhhhh...it's you're...not "your" 8~D

maybe you're not the most qualified person to be calling other people "slobbering idiots"...LOL!!!!

I'm just sayin'... ;)"

Perfect example, bang me for a typo and not the message, plus you added "slobbering idiot" which I never wrote...

Thanks for proving my point in lack of debating skills

"What is wrong with you stupid idiots?????!!!!!!!!!! Why can't you all be nice?" Posted by: Ally

Ally, I get it. Would a nice person really call us stupid idiots.
I think not.

Stop the presses
Dog and I have something we can agree on

"GORDO: you are so tiresome. You cannot create or enhance, only destroy"

Jack
is it getting cold in here?

You know the Campaign for Sen. Clinton must be winding down if her people have time to call the View.

Highlights of Davi Letterman's Top 10 list last night:

The Top Ten Revelations In Scott McClellan's New Book:

#10. Thought it was safe to write a tell-all book because the President doesn't read.

#8. Due to a clerical error, CIA spent two years fighting Al Jarreau.

#5. White House has an illegal cable hookup.

I am not a fan of "Robert's Rules or Order". I prefer the "consensus model" based on Quaker philosophy. It's slower, but it helps everyone to own a piece of the issue, and in the discussion the issue evolves and often gets better.

Wayne, I like part of what you said, but I think it's dangerous to use such a broad brush to taint everyone as "yappers", considering that you are basically doing that yourself :-) It's the internet.. it's a jungle out there, and this, after all, a blog.

SOS...

Re: your 11:52 post...and that is YOUR opinion. It is certainly not mine! I think what happens with the Supreme Court over the next presidential term is of incredible importance.

Chloe...thanks for hearing me...those kind of posts crack me up.

Please go back and read my 10:50 post Harborwoman

Harbor, I saw that you were asking us to look at the bigger picture. And I respect that.

Wayne, you probably need to be a bit more specific in who you are being critical of so that they can respond.

You know the Campaign for Sen. Clinton must be winding down if her people have time to call the View.
Posted by: JennBe

LOL

Hate to admit it, but you're right.

Wayne, you probably need to be a bit more specific in who you are being critical of so that they can respond.
Posted by: pogo

or at least they can be mad.

WJ...relax...I didn't realize that pointing out YOUR typo would upset you so much...

breathe in....breathe out....breathe in....breathe out....breathe in...breathe out....feel better? good!! 8~)

*remember...spell check is your friend!! 8~D

ROTFLMHLAO!!!!!

Just a thought:

www.tinyurl.com/yjyrtn

Clinton campaign says she not conceding

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton is "absolutely not" planning to concede the campaign to Barack Obama on Tuesday night, Clinton campaign chairman Terry McAuliffe told CNN on Tuesday.

McAuliffe, asked about an AP report that Clinton will acknowledge Tuesday night after the South Dakota and Montana primaries that Obama has the delegates to clinch the nomination for the November presidential election, replied: "They are 100 percent incorrect."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080603/pl_nm/usa_politics_clinton_mcauliffe_dc;_ylt=AhBw1oJbCLCvFCP2.TrQfsOs0NUE

Thanks, Chloe. Truly, I intend no sanctimony, but I'm very serious when I say I think critical thinking is an under-taught and under-used skill. And it worries me that we all get so caught up in fighting about the candidate's personalities. Neither of them will be inviting any of us for a sleepover in the Lincoln bedroom. Well, Craig maybe...but the rest of us...pffft!

lunch

And it worries me that we all get so caught up in fighting about the candidate's personalities. Posted by: harborwoman

Harbor, I hear you.
And I, for one, will think about what you said about the bigger picture.

Remember, what you see going on here is about more than just politics. We can't all be in the same place at the same time. Some of us need time to catch up. Me for one.

And, heh, it's great group therapy.

LushIsLinda,

I'm not upset, I'm a pretty calm guy...

I'm just pointing out the use an "ad hominem" attack.

But I am some what dissapointed in the fact that if I was really upset that you take so much pleasure in it.

lunch...me too.

Well, yeah, Nick...but only those who are guilty of a failure to use critical thinking skills unfairly criticize those who make typos....

But I am some what dissapointed in the fact that if I was really upset that you take so much pleasure in it.: Wayne Junction

Wayne,
have often felt that way myself.
We need your point of view.

"Remember, what you see going on here is about more than just politics. We can't all be in the same place at the same time. Some of us need time to catch up. Me for one."

Good point, Chloe! Thanks for the food for thought....

"The Clinton campaign has sent out a press release denying the AP report. She will not suspend her campaign tonight nor will she concede Obama is the defacto winner. I just got off the phone with her internet communications director who told me he just received a copy.

So now the AP is falling for a story the only effect of which would be voter suppression in two states? How do these things happen?"

http://www.talkleft.com/

2 years ago at work I met a guy named J.L. He was a process engineer. I was told he was very smart. When I first met it him , he sounded very smart. He knew more about the process of making vinyl skins and foam than I ever will. But , I wasn't sure if I liked him or not. One day , he ate lunch with us and I got to listen to him talk about his job and his relationship with his supervisors. He was very sincere. He said that he still had a lot of the "change the world" attitude in him. He wouldn't accept things the way they were , he had to make things better. He said some of his supervisors didn't share his ideals. I thought "Wow. I misjudged this guy. He really cares about making things better for us. He's a good guy!" Recently , my friend at work (who is our tech) said her boss had been trying to set aside money in our department budget for various projects , but he got caught. She said, "J.L. put a stop to that." I said, "What happened? I thought J.L. was on our side?" She said, "J.L.'s new job title requires him to pay attention to the bottom line now. (Our budget) I don't think he doesn't care about us now , it's just that he has to look at things from a financial perspective now. That changes things.

HW

I took SoS to be slamming Dog for her drive by MeToo-ism
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/dem-rules-say-winners-dont-tak.html#comment-94600

I must say that bit of snarky irritation wasn't even close to your best post today.
Agree or disagree, your comment about needing to support Obama because of the supreme court, Will end up being close to the best post of the day. Pogo also has one in the running.
I envy you and Pogo
I can't seem to string 3 sentences together that are coherent. Also, once you've said it 3 or 4 times, why bother.

Jack

I'm just pointing out the use(of?) an "ad hominem" attack.
--WJ

Oh lordy....are you serious???? Please tell me you are joking!!!

I corrected your typo...I didn't "attack" you!! Don't be so sensitive... 8~D

Pogo,

You had a long post in reply to my argument about image. Thanks. I think it's a complicated issue, but your argument is persuasive.

hey everyone....looks like another glorious day on the blog.

tick toc

I am listening to KIRO radio in Seattle and they are still reporting the AP report. Floating stories of concession for voter suppression. It rhymes.

Another glorious day on THIS blog? That's unlikely_burrito.

Just heard Rush Limbaugh discussing Bob Beckel on Fox and Friends this morning - Beckel is very concerned that something is about to be dropped on Obama - could be the "whitey" video.

The Beckel video has been removed from YouTube:

" This video has been removed by the user."

I think this crisis between the AP peeps and the Clinton camp is pretty funny. My gut feeling is that she will not drop out tonight. I think she's expected to clean house in South Dakota. It's going to be an awkward night for everybody involved.

1) Why would you drop out after decisively winning SD? (And I know, this isn't a popularity contest, and neither Obama nor Clinton is expected to win there in the fall, so it's not terribly significant.)

2) How can you have a happy "I've got the nomination" speech after losing in SD so badly? No doubt HRC will take advantage of this to make a last minute appeal to the superdelegates "in case something happens."

As an Obama supporter, I feel really nervous about how he's going to handle things tonight.

He's got to be a right-winger, right, am I right? Yes. Gordo is bad news.

Jack...

Since SOS won't tell us who he or she is accusing of sanctimony, we can only guess. I simply wanted to clarify my meaning in case I was the intended target.

If years in the classroom indicate education, I'm guilty. And pogo is even more guilty. But I really don't think either of us believes that makes our opinions more valid than anyone else's. And your posts are plenty coherent! You have strong opinions and you back them up, so you don't need to envy anyone, IMO.

PU: I don't know where in the heck that American Research Group poll came from...I don't think she will win in SD tonight. But, I do think it got the Obama campaign nervous and I don't put it past them to attempt and suppress votes by floating this concession story. JMO.

Why be nervous ? Obama can say whatever he wants, if he stumbles a bit no problem, they'll cut him slack.

I agree with haborwoman - education does not always equate to intelligence or wisdom, and vice-versa. I say this as a college educator.

Here is the Beckel video:

Bob Beckel Talks About a Cryptic Michelle Obama Bombshell!

At 3:22

http://youtube.com/user/johnnydollar01

Ally

Drudge (and it gives me cool shivers typing his name) has a "developing story" which indicates:

"HILLARY CAMPAIGN EXPECTS 25-POINT WIN IN S DAKOTA, TOP SOURCES TELL DRUDGE... DEVELOPING..."

So who knows. This very well might be a plant from her camp to strategically combat the rogue AP story.

Politics of Utopia...

Amen! And thanks for saying it much more concisely than I did!

The big bobshell could be tomorrow:

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/

Ok this tape is resurfing again.

I predict that she not only will not win SD, but it won't even be close. I doubt she planted a blowout win story to Drudge—it doesn't help her get voters out. A nailbiter would help her get voters to the polls.

Did you play the Bob Beckel report. He's a Obama supporter and he said it concerns him. This is the first person that you might believe what he says about this issue.

My parents used to make us sing our arguments.

I can imagine this exchange

Obama supporters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB0fpktxrJI

Clinton supporters response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU5VQ9NAc8A

Does anybody know anything about John Fund of the WJS? Is he more reliable than Beckel?

A Devastating Bombshell on Obama Will Be Dropped Tomorrow

John Fund, Wall Street Journal:

“Indeed, rumors are swirling on the campaign trail that a new video will soon surface featuring Mrs. Obama appearing on a panel with radical speakers during which she makes more controversial statements.”

Bob Beckel:

"he has been told by numerous people,(enough and in a way that convinced him) that a bombshell will be dropping tomorrow about Michele Obama.

The Friends turned white and asked what it might be…was it worse than a college thesis? Bob said—Oh yes, in a BIG way. He said that the Repubs were behind it and it was dumb because it meant that Mrs. Clinton would be the nominee."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/06/03/a-devastating-bombshell-on-obama-will-be-dropped-tomorrow/

One thing interesting this morning, look how fast the Clinton camp jumped on the AP story and responded to the View also. You got to believe there is something going on out there that is keeping them going. Maybe it's this tape or something else. Otherwise this would be over and done with and Obama would be coasting today.

Kumbya

Jack, Pogo, and Jamie agree Gordo is a waste of blog space.

Anybody else want in on the group hug?

Vad: The only thing they want to do is try to upset Obama in SD and suppressing votes is not going to help their cause. Just planting some final seeds of doubt. I don't see it as anything more than that.

I don't believe that Ally. This has been going on for 16 months now, there has to be more to it. We all hate to lose but Hillary will do just fine no matter what happens and the party will come out ok too. They may win or lose in November, there is something big that is pushing her and we will soon find out.

Vad

I will let a Republican give an opinion on your reasoning
http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YTRhY2I1Njg0YmUwNzMwODNhYTQ0OWI5OWVjZGNiNDI=

You know some things have all the hall marks of an urban legend. This tape is one of those.

Jack

Gordo,
We love you.

I'll give you folks the biggest arguments against the existence of this tape:

ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, CNN, MSNBC not to mention every major newspaper in the country. Unless you are a great believer in conspiracies and assume they are all in league with each other to deprive the American public of vital information in order to ensure the election of Barack Obama, then you have to know these arch competitors would be killing each other to get their hands on the incriminating evidence.

It might exist, but the odds are against it.

This morning I thought the tape issue was dead but now more talking heads are bringing it back up. Also WJS is now involved. Is that further proof that something is up or do we throw them in with the rest of the rumor mile.

FOX is reporting it, Rivera on Saturday, now Beckel this morning, Hannity has be using it as a tease, may or may not have something.

Info on John Fund:

Mr. Fund joined the Journal in April 1984 as deputy editorial features editor. He became an editorial page writer specializing in politics and government in October 1986 and was a member of the Journal's editorial board from 1995 through 2001.

Mr. Fund worked as a research analyst for the California State Legislature in Sacramento before beginning his journalism career in 1982 as a reporter for the syndicated columnists Rowland Evans and Robert Novak. In 1993, he received the Warren Brookes Award for journalistic excellence from the American Legislative Exchange Council.

He and former Pennsylvania Rep. James K. Coyne are co-authors of the book "Cleaning House: America's Campaign for Term Limits" (Regnery Gateway, 1992). Mr. Fund attended California State University where he studied journalism and economics.

We will all see tomorrow if something breaks and then we can hash it out.

On the tape, what is magic about tomorrow? Why not today?

Does anybody know what east coast time the two primaries end tonight.

I would like to know the same thing, why tomorrow, if it does come out then why did all the media outlets sit on this one.

Vad: If that tape exists AND it is controversial, I will send a donation of $100 to the charity of your choice. But it MUST be controversial and it must include the term "whitey."

Doesn't Jersey already have enough problems?

I don't think he is headed to the Bada Bing.

What did you mean by this statement?

"That is, after all, the sort of talk we heard from the Obama side back in the day when it looked like he might finish a close second."

I challenge you to provide any proof whatsoever that Obama was seeking the VP slot... ever.

I stayed up to 1 in the morning watching the Hockey game. I don't want to stay up that late again so I was wondering how late their speeches will be tonight

man oh man. Fandango salad, w/grilled cluck & S&S dressing. If only it were something like low calorie and low fat. Oh, well.

Jack, you express yourself well - I actually like succinctness - if only I could learn to employ it.

PoU, thanks for the compliment above - it's just politics as I see it.

SoS, WADR, your analysis of the Court argument is simply wrong. The fact that the judiciary committee is not much more than a rubber stamp is what makes the choice of the person nominating SC candidates critical. If you don't care who gets nominated and confirmed, vote for McCain - Biden et al. will do as they've done with Bush and you'll get what you asked for.

And a shout out to Wayne junction for the "logical fallacies" suggestion. Even Wiki has a 76 page link portal for it, and it never hurts to bone up on that stuff. Roberts rules of order is a bit out of place in the blogosphere, IMHO, but hey, a litlle civility would certainly be welcome in this corner of it, at least to some of us.

Ohhhhhh...who won the Red Wings game????? I know it went to overtime, right?

Ally, OK it has to be controversial and it must include the term "whitey." Add this too: It must be released tomorrow.

Hey Corey,

Step off of the ledge...The wings will still win in 7...

Glad to see my Celtics bitch slapped Flip to the unemployment line...lol!

The Pens won in triple ot

The Pens tied it in the third period with less than 50 seconds left in the game

vadaryl...

Ahh, but that hockey game was worth it for you, wasn't it!?! Double overtime with your team prevailing! (Sorry, Corey...the Wings can try again tomorrow night....)!

Vad: My offer stands through October...

It was a great game, sorry Corey! It was almost half way thru the third OT.

vad, Rivera, Hannity? Oh, god ...

OK Ally fair enough.

I know Hannity and Rivera, what a team. I guess that's why we call them The FOX NOISE channel.

8~( @ the Red Wings loss.

I only followed hockey when I lived in MI. My sister's kids follow the Penguins and the Nailers.

I used to have season tickets to the Pens before they got Mario and they stunk. Games 1 and 2 of this series were normal games back then. No goals! We were lucky to get 10,000 people to watch the game. They are getting that now just to watch the TV screen for the away games in this series. What a difference.

Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of) | June 3, 2008 1:35 PM

Unfortunately true.

jamie, I don't think Gordo's posts are necessarily a waste of time or space if they aren't repetitive. No Quarter and WND - among his other cites - aren't wrong per se, and I don't go there except by Gordo's links. But I've heard so much about the "tape" I could puke.

I was never on the ledge. I also have my Lakers to root for.

IF YOU HAVE A BLOG - A REMINDER

Tomorrow is the Blog Blast For Peace

http://mimiwrites.blogspot.com/2008/04/blogblast-for-peace-revolution-of-words.html

Please join in. The last one in November was phenominal in the response. Tomorrow should be even larger.

I'll join the group hug... All the guy does is reprint conspiracy shit in the blog. What' s up with that?

max, as the old saying goes, even a blind pig finds a truffle now and then. (sometimes the saying uses acorn instead of truffle).

My skepticism of the tape is due in large part to the fact that the rumor of its existence has been around for way too long. If I'm wrong and it emerges tomorrow, sue me - you'll recognize me because I'll be the one standing over here smiling.

pogo,

It turns out the voice saying "Whitey" belongs to a very angry Yogi Berra bitching not about right wingers but left handers named Ford.

Sorry, max, that should have been to ET. Tom, you can have my place in the hug if the tape emerges tomorrow.

I thought I recognized that voice. LOL

Here's to Obama and Dean, wooing the bitter woman demo.

Hah!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JUxZZUWJ6qg&feature=related

Good one , 9-11!

Maybe it was the Brooklyn Dodgers in the World Series saying they were gonna get Whitey?

i don't think voting only from your head and ignoring your heart is sound advice. And I don't think disgruntled Clinton supporters should make any rash decisions until time has passed. I've never felt so unsure about voting in my entire voting life. The ONLY, and I mean ONLY factor that would put a smile on my face to vote for Obama would be protection of the Supreme Court. Wait, let me rephrase that, it still wouldn't put a smile on my face.

I WON'T VOTE McCAIN !!! That "decent American" had a great opportunity to tell that NH voter woman to sod off when she asked him "what can we do to stop the BITCH?". He just laughed along. Sorry, no thanks... no can do... Nader is a turd that's been rotting since 1980 and that leaves, at this moment, my personal preference.. tell the DNC to screw themselves and write in Hillary or leave the POTUS portion blank.

Again, the Supreme Court weighs heavily on my mind.

I wish I had an answer to that because I'm tired of answering that question.
Yogi Berra

Alicia, awesome video. I have the CD and gosh the "angels" look great. hard to believe that Tammy Wynette is dead. :-(

Well, there is reason not to release the tape. Isn't it obvious? Make Obama sweat it and watch if he counters BEFORE the release. He already has made motions to counter it, so the ploy is working. He is losing this poker game. If the tape doesn't exist, his camp has already signaled a meeting between Michelle and Farrakhan, yes? Then Obama supporter Booman says he heard the tape and prints parts of it at NQ to defend Obama. So how is this strategy not working?

I already said that IF the tape exists it would be after the last primary. Clinton will get nailed though most say the Republicans hold the tape. Obama has been going down for months. There will be so many angry Democrats SD will reconsider. I cannot prove the tape exists but many on the internet are getting ready for it. Obama's campaign besides the speeches of change and hope have been largely divisive troubling and worse than McGovern. So much for the high road.

We shall see what is on the tape, but my vote has already been decided on present record. Pfleger wasn't even the final straw. What a bunch of loonies Obama built his career around. What a bunch of wing nuts. Great judgment, principle and clarity.

Good luck with that road show.

vote McCain and save the Democrats from themselves.

Good news about Kennedy:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080603/ap_on_go_co/kennedy_cancer

Alicia
Good 1

Jack

ET, at least McCain didn't call Hillary a racist and defended her against BO. Why don't you figure that into your equation? I repeat. McCain has said nicer things about Hillary from the start than BO or MIchelle. They have a respectful relationship. Enjoy voting WITH the crowd that has said far worse things about Hillary and Bill. Bitch is a compliment in their eyes. She can be a bitch as my girlfriend reminds me. A liar, untrustworthy, Republican lite, racist...who are you kidding ET, yourself?

EuroTom: I do not understand why everyone is so concerned about the Supreme Court. The Democrats stand to pick up 4-6 new Senators this cycle, while losing none. If one includes the two Maine Senators among the liberal-to-moderate voices, then there is no chance that another radical conservative Justice will be added to the Supreme Court in the next four years, regardless of who is President.

McCain has said nicer things about Hillary from the start than BO or MIchelle. They have a respectful relationship. Maxtrue

That's because McCain shows respect toward everyone.

Maxtrue,

Last I heard about Farrakhan, he was dealing with Alzheimers or something and was crapping himself in a diaper. When did this meeting with Michelle and he take place?

If Ed Rendell can say positive things about Farrakhan this decade, why can't someone else potentially meet him?

Lastly, if a campaign can only win by tossing holy hand grenades at an opponent instead of making a positive case for themselves, why are you more likely to vote for the grenade chucker?

Bear

"I can understand being upset that you think Obama didn't do enough to defend Bill Clinton for not being a racist but remember the following things"

It wasn't that they "didn't do enough". It was that they issued instructions to push the negative response even though they knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was talking about why the percentages were larger than initially expected. IOW they perpetuated and promoted a lie for a tactical advantage.

It was the first thing that totally soured me on the "change" meme and spelled out just another politician with a hatchet job manager.

If there wasn't going to be any "change" why desert the politician I knew and believed in for one I didn't know and suspected or being no better or even worse?

Headline: AP Reports Obama Clinches Nomination

However, as you read more closely, here is what it says:

"Obama, meanwhile, was steadily picking up superdelegates Tuesday and inching ever closer to securing a majority of Democratic delegates, although it remained unclear whether he would go over the top Tuesday night.
The outcome of the Democratic contest could come by the end of the day with some choreography by the party’s superdelegates.
But if Obama can’t claim victory Tuesday night, he’ll be awfully close,"

Bear: I have never understood why so many people felt the comparison to Rev Jackson should have been seen as an insult. I, for one, have always admired Rev Jackson and, in fact, voted for him twice, hoping that he would be named as VP in 1988. I regard him as a hero of the Civil Rights movement. And, when it comes to speech-giving, I'd put Rev Jackson up against Sen Obama any day of the week...certainly he is a far better extemporaneous speaker than Sen Obama. IMHO, Sen Obama should have felt honored by the comparison.

As for Hillary and McCain,

If word came out years from now that they had an affair together, I would not be shocked. This is not a claim that they did get together but I have a decent sense for these things and a revelation about the two of them would not shock me.

I always liked "It Isn't God Who Made Honky Tonk Angels... the woman's response to "Lonesome Side of Life" The great Kitty Wells: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMCUaVbgqe4

Real Goot one 9/1, lol

Real Goot one 9/11, lol

excuse

Hillary has better taste. Besides, I'd think she'd go for a boy toy... and why not?

As for Hillary and McCain,

If word came out years from now that they had an affair together, I would not be shocked. This is not a claim that they did get together but I have a decent sense for these things and a revelation about the two of them would not shock me.

Posted by: Bear | June 3, 2008 2:19 PM

And everyone complains about GORDO. Why don't you float this idea to Axlerod? I'm sure the AP will report it.

but I have a decent sense for these things and a revelation about the two of them would not shock me.

Posted by: Bear | June 3, 2008 2:19 PM
You critize Gordo. There is a greater change the tape exists. If this is an indication of your "sense" you are senseless. I'm sure your fans will applaud your critical thinking on these matters.

I think the Obama supporters felt that even running against Obama was a racist act.... as if the only reason people wouldn't support him was because he was black. We've seen that sort of discussion often in here. "Hillary Clinton's supporters are racist"... I never read such sweeping statements made about Obama supporters... which the logical inverse would be "Barack Obama's supporters are sexist". It was bullshit then and it's bullshit now.

Does that count as bad language?

Jamie: As always, I am in total agreement with your perspective. I was neutral about Sen Obama right up to the minute I began to realize that his campaign was purposefully doing everything it could to portray Bill Clinton as a racist (SC talking points memo) and an ineffective President (Obama's interview in Nevada). As I delved into Sen Obama's political background, I, too, began to realize that he was just another politician and quite willing to do whatever it took to win.

Jamie,

I see all candidates as candifigs and candiyams: they are good things sugared with all kinds of sweetness and blight.

Do I know a thing about Obama and government? Yes and I don't like it -- the decision to not hold even one hearing, private or public of his subcommittee riles me and not because I was looking to be riled.

That was a necessary act not just for the world --

But for a Senate whose powers and authority were being lopped and leeched by Bush.

Every Senator was obligated to act on their powers and their authorities to re-assert the Constitution.

So I will be a better citizen than Barack was a Senator by voting against McCain.

What he gets done and what letdowns he allows or spins...

I don't care.

I'm with Harborwoman and a few others on this one.
He's one of two less that wonderful choices of dinner on the menu.

I voted for Dukakis who I knew was a case of the ob/gyn throwing out the baby and raising the afterbirth.

I felt the same way about voting -- twice -- for WJC.

I felt okay about Gore as a potential leader but loathed him as a candiyam.

Enough from me.

Bear get a grip. Obama sent out his wife before the press to accuse Bill of being racist. Obama denied his campaign was sending our letters repeating this claim and he was forced to apologize during one debate. Let us keep the record clear. When Obama was slipping he played the race card and for that alone, should not get into the WH. He claims his campaign is color blind. What BS. He has spent half of his campaign throwing those who created him under the bus. What other candidate has had such a complete mess and such a BS autobiography? Not a week goes by without problems, retractions and self-injury. God help us if he is anywhere near being the most powerful person on the planet. His past judgment has been utterly poor. Almost all those close to him are indicted or discredited. His advisors get fired on a regular basis. Now I understand what people meant by an empty suit and it has nothing to do with the color of Obama's skin. AS GF said, that was a plus in this year's primary. Only an Obama could have turned it into a mess.

It is not whether or not "this tape" of MO exists, but the fact that many people can imagine MO would actually say something so racist.

AP tally: Obama clinches Democratic nomination

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080603/ap_on_el_pr/primary_rdp

Now let's see how fast the Clinton camp responds to this one.

Jamie,

You make a valid point. I don't know what the IOW stands for but I can understand that if he is going to make claims to reject the politics of the past that it's not a good idea to use Clinton War room tactics to fan that story.

maggisd, while you have positive opinions of Jesse Jackson, to me, he's always been a publicity hound who's best moments I've seen were his 84 convention speech and his recitation of Green Eggs and Ham on SNL the week Dr. Seuss died. I do remember how the media did frame his candidacy as nothing more that a black man running who will only get tree hugging white people to vote for him. To me the tone in Clinton's voice and the comparison being made was nothing more than a way to marginalize Obama's win.

I saw nothing wrong with it but I am a firm believer in the mantra "If you are going to dish it out, you better be able to take it."

As I have analyzed political speeches, ads and other communications, I have seen that what is being said is less important that how it's being said.

oh I am sure he's got it vadaryl... The question will be whether it matters in November.

Only an Obama could have turned it into a mess.
Posted by: Maxtrue | June 3, 2008 2:27 PM

Doesn't that mess going on for 8 more years scare anyone else here?

9/11: Those of us who live in totally red or totally blue states are free to cast a protest vote, if we wish. And I, for one, will do so. My county (heavy military presence) will be a spot of red in a sea of blue, so I can quite easily vote for Sen McCain...although I do not agree with his views on choice or labor unions, I do find his views on the environment, corporate welfare, and agricultural price supports to be quite acceptable.

Max, we'll see, won't we?

Bear, you chose to make Bill's comment sour grapes. I took it to mean that a good showing in SC doesn't mean you'll win in the end. Period. He would have been better served to use John Edwards as an example.

maggi, the judiciary committee makeup probably won't change toward a more moderate makeup regardless of a modest pickup of new dem senators - it is one of the most powerful committees and sitting members don't give up their seats once they get them. I don't share your optimism, and I do plan to try and help control what comes out of the pipeline by controlling who puts the nominees into it.

Did Obama's two mentors vote for the authorization to use force? Yes. Obama said he didn't know the info at the time, so his judgment has no standing.

Hillary said clearly what she expected. Unfortunately some want to tar Hillary for this singular decision and ignore the poor record and problems of Obama. It is a free country.

Divided government at this point is the better balance than leaving Obama and Pelosi in charge. Smart minds should know this and good luck with Obama staring down a Saddam today. That asshole would just be another chicken coming home to roost, yes?

Hell, without Iraq, Obama would still be doing nothing in the Senate. Just and empty suit in an empty chair.

"IMHO, Sen Obama should have felt honored by the comparison."- Maggi

For me, at the minimum the comment goes in the "good intentions" folder. It has little to no effect if not negatve.

speaking of racism, some people I knew at Evergreen State College, student activists, kept on insisting that only white people could be racist because we "white people" held the institutional power in order to enact racism. One particular guy was a "indigenous native" who did a radio show at KAOS. He kept saying non-whites, ("people of color") could hold prejudices but they could not be racist. The formula offered was that "prejudice + institutional power = racism". Being a first generation college student with no grooming for higher education, having no job and no real career options, I hardly saw myself as someone with "institutional power"... Thank god for the food banks back then.

Anyway, the idea that poor and downtrodden people who happen to white hold institutional power is b.s. And I reject the idea that only whites can be racist, just as I reject the celebration of the percentage of blacks supporting Obama and the condemnation of Hillary when she mentioned she also had support of hard working white people....

Maggisd,
It takes a two thirds senate majority to reject any federal judiciary nominee (see Article 2 section 2 of the Constitution).

If the Democrats don't achieve that, all bets are off. Hence the safe bet is to defeat McCain.

Obama has gotten the support of Michigan SDs

Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick and his Mother Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick.

Kwame's really gonna help the Obama campaign!

McCain won't get a crazy elected to SCOTUS. Such a claim is exactly the fear mongering Obamniacs are using on McCain. McCain voted for the Democratic picks. He is hardly the diehard pro-lifer which is why many conservatives don't like him. He wants judges to be more orginalists than activists. And what is wrong with that? Did our founders think the court should make personal opinion into law? Soon the Commerce Clause will regulate how you wipe your ass. Many on the Far Left WANT SCOTUS to have the power to ADD new views to the Constitution. There is a process for this they don't like because it requires a national vote, not a court coup.

Divided government is better than letting Obama and Pelosi give us more of a mess and lead us to a NeoReagan for 8 years. But, don't think, go right ahead.

Smart people will vote Democrat except vote McCain instead of Obama. Now that will certainly teach the DNC a thing or two.

As I have analyzed political speeches, ads and other communications, I have seen that what is being said is less important that how it's being said. -- Bear

Both are important. I would note however that you should probably say, rather than "how it's being said" ... how I hear it.
Many men fail to hear the misogyny that women have heard in this campaign. Many Obama supporters fail to hear the contempt with which the Obama campaign has dismissed the Clinton Presidency. Many pundits have been far too eager to allow Sen Obama to claim that the words of those with whom he has freely associated for 20+ years and for whom he has pushed earmarked funds through the Illinois state senate and the US Congress do not represent his views. If Sen Obama was / is in such profound disagreement with persons like Father Pfleger, then why did he associate with him for all those years, and direct funds to his organization?
We are supposed to believe in Sen Obama's judgment because he was against invading Iraq. On no other matter, however -- particularly personal and political associates -- are we to question his judgment.

maggi, truth be told, so could I - in pres. politics, WV is a sea of red. But I won't allow myself to have been one who even colorably enabled a McCain Supreme Court to occur. We all make our own decisions, and as a practical sort, I think yours is plenty reasonable although I don't agree with it.

bear - it's "in other words"

Despite the repeated setbacks to the Bush administration and its allies and Alito's own far-right record, most observers expect him to be confirmed. Blocking Alito would take a filibuster supported by at least 41 senators. Though the Democrats have 45 senators (counting independent James Jeffords), the Senate Democratic leadership frets that a filibuster would divert attention from other Republican woes, might make Democrats look obstructionist, and might lead Republicans to use the so-called ''nuclear option," abolishing filibusters on judicial nominations.
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/01/08/alito_may_be_the_worst_choice/

41 Senators could have stopped Alito but the Democrats were too chicken to do it. What did it get them. Bush walks all over them everyday.

Nobody puts Cynthia in a corner

Max.. rather than vote McCain, if they want to make a statement, write in Hillary... or plug their noses and vote Obama.. I am still unsettled.

Maxtrue,

Everyone is a bigot. Anyone who tries to make a claim to the contrary is just fooling themselves. Chris Rock won major acclaim for his Ni#$@ vs. Black People riff. He declared black people are more racist because they hate Ni@#$ too. With regards to Michelle, "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned". When it's an angry black woman coming at you...run.

I can understand you concern or anger with the Obama biography etc. but as you make those points, realize it shines a greater light of ineptitude on the Clinton campaign.

She led in every opinion poll last november. She did better amongst blacks, whites, hispanics, college educated, high school drop outs, etc. She had more money and she was declared the inevitable choice. Barack's use of the race card isn't what caused her to overlook and ignore the caucus states. His lunatic pastor didn't tell her the primary season ended Feb. 5th. Michelle Obama being "angry" towards white folk didn't tell her to overspend for the worst political advice in history.

As for the comparison's to Gordo, I would like to think that I am different when I state that I would not be shocked were news of affair to surface to be true, is different that pushing unsubstantiated rumors as fact. If this is an unfair distinction on my part, please explain to me the error of my thinking.

I started picking up hints of some sort of "bombshell" a few months ago from several sources. There were reports that Harold Ickes was warning SDs about an "October Surprise" to be used against Obama if he got the nomination. LJ said an anti-McCain Repub billionaire was trying to get the video so he could ensure a Hillary nomination. Bob Beckel (think he supports Obama) sounded very worried. This has been a very sophisticated operation - listen to Beckel.

Harry Reid didn't think the Supreme Court appointments were important. Why should anyone else.

Elect a black woman, truly make history.

http://www.gp.org/index.php

I have to go now , but one question for people to answer. As far as the Supreme Court , was is the biggest fear that people have concerning who will be appointed in the future? What do you fear will be over-turned? I mean , Roe Vs. Wade etc...What other issues are there that you are worried about?

Pogo: As the majority increases, the majority party is able to change the balance on Senate committees. Thus, I expect in the new Senate that each committee will lose from 1-2 Republicans and gain from 1-2 Democrats. The Judiciary Committee, being relatively small, will probably only see a shift of 1 on each side, for a net Dem pick up of +2.

Frank: It only takes a majority vote to confirm or deny an appointment -- any appointment. It takes 2/3 to impeach a sitting judge but that's not what we're talking about here.

frank, that's not right. it takes 2/3 to approve a treaty. It takes a simple majority to approve a judicial nomination through the advise and consent provision of II(2).

Here's an example - rejected on a 14-10 vote

http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/minute/A_Chief_Justice_Rejected.htm

Maggie

You are in the middle of one of the best run Republican GOTV organizations in the country. Those women are something else. If there is a Republican vote still breathing, they will find it and drag it to a ballot. : )

You could vote for the blue footed boobies party and it wouldn't make any difference at all. Your county will go Republican. The State will go Democratic.

The ONLY thing that could change that is if all the Democrats bit the dust before the election.

nannym: Let's set aside the Supreme Court for the moment. What else would worry you about voting for McCain?
As I've said before, I'm a life-long Dem, but I did vote for Gerald Ford in 76, and have voted for Republicans on the local level, so the notion of voting Republican per se doesn't bother me as much as it does some. Do you have other concerns beside the Supreme Court?

Pogo,
how about debate closure?

Pogo,

You make a great point about South Carolina. Our different interpretations of that statement was based on differing perspectives. I agree that the use of Edwards would have been a much better reference. Also thanks for the IOW explanation.

Maggiesd,

While I do agree both are important, in this era of the short attention span sound bites, I think the visuals make more of an impact.

In 2006, you had George Allen looking smug while he was calling some kid Macaca. As that played over and over and people realized he was making fun of a teenager, he was doomed.

Look at the Harold Ford Jr. ad with the skank asking Harold to give her a call. She looked like a hooker/party girl and people started wonder if he was "senator" material.

When the ads with Rev. start playing again, it will be the images of a crazy preacher in an ugly robe and then you will hear God Damn America that will be the hook.

Don't forget you just need to show Osama Bin Laden for a second for it to have an impact...which reminds me...

Should we have a betting pool to pick the date when the first Osama/Obama ad gets run in the general election?

or is it cloture? lol

later lunch

maggs, that is best case scenario - and on this issue I'm not willing to roll the dice on that.

BTW, frank - 60% of the senate can block a nomination through filibuster, not 2/3.

That should be the real fear: that Democrats have been so emasculated that they come up with all sorts of complex sounding political reasons to weasel out of opposing one archconservative (Roberts) in order to supposedly fight another day...but that having gotten so used to capitulating, that other day never comes, no matter what kind of extremist affront comes down the pike.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/how-roberts-confirmation_b_7739.html

Why support Democrats they only cave in.

Jamie: Absolutely right. Although Bill Clinton did "win" my county in 1992 (a heavy Perot contingent here).
However, it has not stopped me from voting for the candidate of "my" party previously (although sometimes with reluctance).
Actually, we do have two Democratic Congress persons, although I swear my District would have re-elected Cunningham from jail if he hadn't resigned.

Rez - cloture - it takes 60 senators to vote for cloture (or 3/5 - Senate Cloture Rule - passed in 1975 to reduce cloture margin from 2/3 to 3/5).

I am concerned about workers rights, union rights, the rights of free speech, the rights of free association... and the sort.. in response to Corey

How many voters are represented by the minimum number of Senators (40) needed to sustain a filibuster?

http://www.fairvote.org/?page=1538

Bear, not everyone is a bigot regardless of your opinion. I mean, racist more correctly. There is a difference in humor and boas is not being racist. Kin favor kin. That is biological, but I would date black or white unlike Obama's mom who as a white woman wanted only non-white men.

What Hillary didn't do was push the Wright story and sink Obama when she had the chance. Penn told her she would be branded as nasty if she did that. Too bad she didn't as McCain is going to have a field day. You can't make a career with the help of people you now reject. Obama's entire political history is an association with the Left Wing and they get pretty ugly. How can you deny this? I know many blacks who do not share the views of Wright, Pfleger or Meeks, let alone Khalidi or Aysers, Rezko or Auchi. I now many minoirties that think Obama is full of crap and is playing on white guilt using the press while hiding his actual record and history. My mother is an alien is Obama's mom was conservative. Just two weeks before the Wright story sunk home, Obama told the Press that Wright and Trinity are NOT CONTROVERSIAL. Nothing ambiguous about that Bear. Obama said Musharraf resigning and moderates ruling was good for America and good for Pakistan Democracy...LOL Noe hw avoids using OBL or talking about Pakistan. He lied to AIPAC, denounced more sanctions and said ZERO about the new IAEA report on Iran or the report two weeks ago about the danger not doing anything about Iran is having on proliferation.

Everywhere you listen, Obama is saying things that are wrong, lies or political pandering. You want a candidate that seems charming and I don't for one moment buy that BS either.

Hillary over looked the caucus States because most of them were Red and WILL vote RED. To win required the very Obamniacs that propell the Obama campaign. 2000 voters deciding all those delegates? And tell me how media didn't help this tactic? Obama screwed Michigan as well by plotting with Edwards to pull out an hour before the deadline, yes? Nice try at explaining how Hillary fell. Sure she made mistakes, but the deal breaker was the Press and Obama's low road tactics. Hillary supporters will not forget, nor will they want the future wrath of America encouraged by an Obama/Pelosi nexus pushing their Far Left agenda. What to see who our adversaries are rooting for? Read the papers. Doesn't that tell you something?

And an affair by Bill is hardly the the troubling mess that Obama keeps getting bit by. 20 years of damning associations with wonderful people as he tries to sell his American Pie make-over complete with flag pin and a "conservative" mom. Well, Wright was right about a few things. Gotta give him that much.

ABC news said the hillary will not call it quits but she will thank her supporters and hint around what is going to happen next tonight.

nannym: I cannot speak for McCain with certainty -- but he, too, in the past, has expressed concern for all those things and his close Senate friend Lindsay Graham has been particularly fierce on some of those issues ... to the point, actually, where there have been whisperings in SC that he faced a challenge from the right.
The thing about it is...I guess since I come from a quasi-military background, I have a great deal of confidence in the respect that military men have for the Constitution and our essential liberties.

As planned the SD's will announce their support for Obama once the polls are closed like Carter.

The rights I'm most concerned about are those that are loosely referred to as privacy rights, and that have been usurped through Pres. Orders, signing statements and the USA Patriot Act., and court decisions addressing what is "public" and what constitutes "reasonable suspicion" and "just cause."

maggisd,

There's a big concern with the NLRB (national labor review board) which, under Bush, has reversed many of its decisions under Clinton to allow various institutions to unionize. Labor is a huge issue. If McCain wins, labor loses.

Also: education; national endowments for the arts and humanities; civil liberties

ETom -- I love Kitty Wells too -- especially for Honky Tonk Angels. Thanks!

Off to fetch the kiddos!

Nick: I did not make that statement about a 2/3 majority with respect to anything other than amending the Constitution or impeaching a sitting judge.
All it takes to confirm or reject a Presidential appointment of any kind is a majority vote.
None of us can be certain of anything, but I am as certain as I can be that the GOP would filibuster an Obama appointee with great gusto and that a President McCain, if he were elected, would work with his former colleagues to find a suitable nominee acceptable to a broad cross-section of Senators.

I have a great deal of confidence in the respect that military men have for the Constitution and our essential liberties.

Posted by: maggisd

Forgive me if I laugh at this one. Really? I mean really? Can you type this with a straight face. They may very well have *some* of our liberties in mind, but what about the rest of the world.

Abu Ghraib.

Hello?

None of us can be certain of anything, but I am as certain as I can be that the GOP would filibuster an Obama appointee with great gusto and that a President McCain, if he were elected, would work with his former colleagues to find a suitable nominee acceptable to a broad cross-section of Senators.

Posted by: maggisd

You are living in a fantasy world if you think McCain will go toward the middle.

You know the republican party always needs new members. You should consider joining.

Go Green - few or many, depending on what senators are in the 40 (actually 41) that would have to vote against cloture. (e.g. 2 senators from WY - half a million - have as much power in a cloture vote as the 2 senators from CA - 35 million).

maggie

You have two Dem Congress critters because of the gerrymandering from the last census. The legislature protected all existing Dem seats and the seated Republicans went along with it to protect their own seats. If the people of California ever get a fair redistricting, it will be a major miracle.

Hannity just said he does not have this so called tape or he has never seen the tape. So now his tease is finnally over.

Good news:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/06/03/poll-obama-has-edge-over-mccain/

Tonight's gonna be fun.

I just hope something comes out tomorrow to at least say one rumor was right and put this to rest.

PofU: I hear you on labor issues, and that gives me concern as well, particularly given that Phil Gramm is one of McCain's advisors.
On the other hand, Sen McCain is educable, as has been shown in the past.

Nannym: As for the war -- I was totally against the invasion. But, like Howard Dean, I believe that we broke it, we have an obligation to try and fix it. I would just point out that both Sen Obama and Sen Clinton refused to promise that we would be out of Iraq by 2013. Recently, Sen McCain stated that he envisioned a future where we would be out of Iraq by 2013.

I have said before that I look at things differently than many ... issues change, character doesn't. From the moment Sen Obama dismissed Sen Clinton's experience as consisting of "taking tea with the ambassador" until the moment on Saturday when the Obama supporters graciously allowed Sen Clinton to keep all but four (actually 50% of four) of the delegates she had actually won in Michigan, I have seen nothing but a man of such supreme ambition that he was no better than his campaign accused his rival of being ... in other words, he would do anything to win.

24 hours this will be all over and we can move on. But let's have some fun over the next 24 hrs.

It makes my skin crawl when people keep talking about Hannity on this blog.

There's one poor excuse for a human being.

vardaryl,

Given Larry Johnson's connections, the conventional wisdom is that this was simply a nasty rumor floated by Clinton peeps.

Go Green

In case you wonder why your senator doesn't really care what you think ...

When the country was founded, each senator represented about 100,000 people. Currently, each senator represents about three million.

Even the house which is supposedly "The Peoples" representative, it's about a quarter of a million constituents each.

If you want someone to pay attention, you had better be part of one humongous group or bloc (votes) or be very, very wealthy (campaign funds).

maggisd,

McCain sold his soul to win the nomination - which he didn't actually have to campaign for, given that he simply became their guy because he was perceived as the least detestable of all the other candidates. He is not the same McCain from 2000. His repeated errors involving finance and foreign policy bespeak a kind senility or dementia.

All smiles:

http://wonkette.com/400152/another-meaningless-but-still-delightful-hypothetical-electoral-map

PofU: You apparently do not know many military people personally. It would be good to bear in mind that Abu Ghraib was a CIA operation and that the persons who were photographed were members of a single National Guard Unit, not regular military.
The National Guard is undoubtedly a fine organization and we really count on them during times of national disaster, but one ought not confuse them with regular military.
By the way, one of the things I really do like about Sen McCain is that he has wanted for years to reorganize and restructure the Pentagon ... get rid of a lot of the brass and bureaucracy. AND, he believes that the Navy should be strengthened.
Again, however, let me reiterate that I view my vote for McCain as largely a protest vote, and essentially meaningless, given where I live.

Max, I don't know what people really mean when they use the originalists/activists paradigm. If someone can divine what the founders had in mind when they wrote something or can determine that the words they used then meant to them what we say they did - originalists - he or she is a better person than I. Frankly, I think that is impossible.

Activist on the other hand means something - in my profession it means changing the law - more than a few organizations that watch the court have opined that the court we currently have has been the most "activist" one in generations in terms of turning over more legislation than any other.

To me it makes more sense to look at court appointees as taking a narrow or expansive approach to reading the constitution in the context of the laws before them. It is noteworthy to me that this court found a limit of single digits with respect to punitive damages in relation to compensatory damages in a due process context. Think the framers had that in mind? I don't, but I don't think it's necessarily a bad decision, either.

I hear you on the Commerce Clause argument - it has been read expansively at least for the past 50 years, although the court has found it to have limits in a couple of recent decisions.

But the modern use of the paradigm boils down to a simpler issue - "originalists" oppose Roe v. Wade while "acitvists" approve of it. So I find the pardigm to be artificial and political with less meaning that it seems to have.

PofU: Name me a candidate who hasn't misspoken, please. Does Sen Obama's reference to the 57 states in which he campaigned bespeak a troubling ignorance, or merely a misstatement?
I can assure you that not all older persons are senile. Our favorite liberal Lion, Senator Kennedy, is a frequent perpetrator of verbal gaffes ... not a sign of anything other than probable dysarthria --

Yeah, Uptopia, you would like all to believe that BS. Like Obama didn't sell his soul to Rezko and Wright..LOL Now that's the Wright Stuff....

Sure, McCain had an easy time getting the nomination and winning support from Republicans....what insight. Here comes the McCain-is-senile garbage that will become Republicans-are-racists when Obama falls behind in the polls. And what is Obama's excuse? I guess his gaffes, contradictions, lies and BS are conscious and unprincipled where as poor McCain is just going senile.

Good stuff Dystopia. Obama sold his soul to trinity long ago with Ayers and others getting a little part of it for the cash and help they advanced. Twenty years of a sellout, where as you claim poor McCain is just recently senile.

You are too funny. Politics of Dystopia is far more fitting. You and Mr. Democrat should team up, or are you one and the same?

Maggie,

That is why they were already protected. The California legislature is solidly Democratic, so when drawing districts they spread the Republican voters as far and wide as possible within state law, San Diego County gives them some problems in the State house and Senate because of all the military , so you get Republican seats there. For Congress, it is easier because they have a larger population to include or exclude.

If you ever want to get permanently crossed eyes, just look at a redistricting map. : ) My favorite was the one that had a chunk of ocean in the middle of it (with no bridge) and the Congressman had to drive over 50 miles to get to the part of his district that was five miles away. Not sure if that one still exists.

maggisd,

I don't give a damn where you live. Your vote effects the whole of the country. I pity your vain, egotistical "protest vote." It's a real shame. I understand you live in an area that will go Dem no matter what, but if you want to make a real protest, save yourself the gas an stay home.

In terms of the military: it is a profession structurally rooted in killing. Look at the mass murders committed by US soldiers in Fallujah. I can support troops only in so far as I don't want anyone to get hurt overseas - and that includes Iraqis. But I do not think there's much noble about the military these days.

Maxtrue: I would only kindly point you to the candidacy of one Hillary Rodham Clinton.

GoGreen, the term majority is not in Art. 2, Sec. 2. The Senate Rules govern giving advice and consent (like any other measure before it that does not specifically require more votes) - it takes a 3/5 vote to cut off debate and a majority vote to pass a measure.

maggisd,

The problem is that as a country we don't need mainstream right now. We need something far more radical to wake people up. If we continue to follow the mainstream, there will absolutely no hope of overtaking the networks of free-market capitalism that have given rise to the increasing income gap, low wage exploitation across the board, higher and higher energy costs, debt slavery, sexism, etc.

maggs, you wrote "I do feel that Sen McCain too often lets his love of sarcasm and insult humor interfere with what should be serious comment". I knew there was something I like about McNumbNuts. I just wish I liked more of his politics.

Damn.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/03/primary_season_set_to_end_with_obama_poised_to_win/

Does anyone else think it's odd that Joe Scarborough, the only pro-HRC voice on MSNBC, has been off for the past few weeks? And that according to Mika, "he might be back tomorrow" -- after the primaries are over? I know he is in FL awaiting the birth of his child, but he has done remotes before from FL -- in fact he was on a week or so ago from FL on another show.

Harriet Christian Defends Her Remarks on Your World With Cavuto

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIIDtlFzAkg

(She was at the DNC last Sat.)

PoU, and you see a candidate out there that doesn't represent the mainstream with respect to those issues? Please, pray tell, who is it?

pogo,

No. I wish there was a viable candidate who represented my views, but, alas, I've got only two parties to choose from in this country if I want my voice to be counted. I do know that McCain will be much friendlier to big business than Obama.

PofU
The word is affects, not effects.
My vote is as sacred as yours. I can vote the way I wish for any reason or no reason at all.
As for your assessment of the military...you are speaking to a former military wife, a military sister and the last remaining member of two families in which every male has served ... in one case as far back as King George's War. I live in a military town and am surrounded by neighbors who are military, both active and retired.
Here's the deal ... no one likes war, Good people sometimes do bad things during wars ... today's military is actually more disciplined and less prone to commit outrageous acts than ever before.
This Iraqi invasion was particularly egregious, but the military didn't start it. We Americans are, for better or worse, a rather war-like people. We are not Sweden, we are not Switzerland, we are not even Canada. We can always strive to do better ... and I think we do.

Bear, not everyone is a bigot regardless of your opinion. I mean, racist more correctly. There is a difference in humor and boas is not being racist. Kin favor kin. That is biological, but I would date black or white unlike Obama's mom who as a white woman wanted only non-white men.

Maxtrue,

This is an interesting assertion that should certainly warrant it's own thread because I've noticed that many people I encounter have differing opinions of what bigotry and racism are.

While some will assert that there must be an element of power or dominion over another for it to be racist, I take the approach that if you are using one's race as the sole means to deal with a certain group, whether it be pro or con, you are being racist.

Does anyone else think it's odd that Joe Scarborough, the only pro-HRC voice on MSNBC, has been off for the past few weeks? Posted by: CatBalu | June 3, 2008 3:53 PM

CatBalu, I agree there's something more there. Joe is all that makes that program possible for me.

He's not someone who can be maneuvered easily, so they may have wanted him gone for a while. Or maybe he didn't want to be there if he was required not to be fair to Hillary. Heaven knows he's the only one there that was (except Buchanan). He's so much more credible than anyone else there.

P-U

Please understand, the role of our military is to deter other countries from doing things against our national interest. The military does this by maintaining a capability to wreak violence on an unimaginable scale when called to do so by our national command authority.

In the most basic terms, the business of the military is control through violence and mayhem. Kill them before they kill you. Kill more of them than they kill of us. Numbers killed is a measure of merit in the military. And, it's always been that way.

Leadership's job is to manage the killers in such a way that the killing is accomplished only when appropriate and when directed by competent authority. Leaders are constantly refreshed on the Laws of Armed Conflict and their obligations under those Laws.

Aberrations do occur. And they are painful and regrettable. But, they are, by a very, very large margin exceptional events.

Pogo: Strangely, one of the things I don't like about Sen Obama is that I see so little evidence of spontaneous wit ... I don't know why it is, but I've always liked the quick, biting, wry come-back ... even though I'm not good at it myself. One of the things I like best about Al Gore and that I liked least about John Kerry ...

maggisd,

I don't disagree with everything you're saying here. My point is simply that I don't think there's much noble about the military these days. Unless you are drawn in because of financial circumstances, it's very hard for me to imagine anyone with a good system of values wanting to go into the armed services. I say this as the son of a West Point graduate. It isn't just Iraq. It's every conflict since WW II. Given that war has become inextricably linked to business, rather than purely national interest (if there ever was such a thing), the military should be viewed with absolute scrutiny.

Pogo asked about a candidate who represented my values. Indeed, the closest was dear Mr. Kucinich, who actively campaigns for the creation of a department of peace. What a great idea!

Corey...

Re: your 2:52 post. My concerns regarding the Supreme Court involve their ability to set the agenda for life in this country far into the future. We live in a climate, largely given us by Republicans but aided and abetted by those Dems who are also owned by corporate America, of deregulation and pro-business over people. I see no good that come of continuing in this direction. Already, the middle class is shrinking to dangerously low numbers, and the gap between the wealthiest and poorest of us is growing exponentially. This pro-business slant will also have an enormous impact on decisions regarding what to do about pollution and its contribution toward 'poisoning' the populace and its effect on global climate change. And, of course, Roe v. Wade is a matter of concern. Those are a good starting point.

I can vote the way I wish for any reason or no reason at all. Maggisd

Maggi, thanks for reminding everyone of that. Great post.

Flatus: Very good post. And, I would add to it the observation that there are far fewer aberrations now than there have been in past wars.
There is an excellent article in the New Yorker (I believe the Feb 28 issue) called "The Water Cure" about our actions in the Philippines during the Spanish-American War and our subsequent attempt to put down the population of the Philippines .... our military has come a long way since then.

I think I just threw up a bit in my mouth.

Here's the big, siren-flashing Drudge lead story:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D912PS580&show_article=1

Clinton says she's open to the VP position if it will help unite the country in November.

hey, what happens if HRC wins todays primaries?

maggs, so true, so true. Oh well, he does try, though. He reminds me of Biff in the Back to the Future movies - "Make like a leaf and go away."

NelsonDecker

Nothing practically. The AP already called the nomination for Obama this afternoon. However, if she pulls out two victories, I imagine there will be a lot of pressure put on Obama to put her up as VP.

Like the story that had her conceding, Clinton has expressed NO interest in being Obama's vp

"Now here's the funny part: Suzanne Malveaux reports that the Obama campaign says she is on the "short list" but is concerned that the Clintons haven't been fully vetted."
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/6/3/154350/8941

Lynn C,

Read before posting. She made the claim this afternoon on the phone with lawmakers.

Actually, Maggs, I meant that to refer to McCain, but it probably works for either.

Did she? or is it just more anonymous representations of what was really said
Your comprehension of what you read is rather low

I don't think she brought up

re: approx 1pm coments, I have heard even donna brazile refer to some secret revelation about BHO envolvement in his church. that they wanted the super dels to go for him before this thing gets out.

Here's another link:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/06/03/clinton-says-shes-open-to-being-vp/

PofU: One of the reasons I would never have voted for Sen Kucinich ... his pacifism. No one really likes war. But wars do happen, and sometimes for good reason. A dear friend of mine, who supports Sen Obama, (and a former Reservist) tried to persuade me some weeks ago that WWII should have been avoided. Not could have been ... most people understand that if the League of Nations (i.e. the French and the Brits) had acted swiftly when Hitler went back into the Ruhr, his expansionist dreams would have been ended right there. No...that it should have been avoided ... by us.

I do not equate our current misadventure with WWII and I find it offensive that some people do so. I would, however, point out to you again that the timeline offered by Sens Obama and Clinton is quite similar to that offered by Sen McCain and that all three have spoken of removing our troops safely and with honor.

PP, the House has nothing to do with Supreme Court nominees.

maggisd,

With Clinton and McCain it depends. Especially with McCain. At first it was 100 years. Now it's by 2013. He doesn't actually have a strategy. Ok, and to be fair, Obama doesn't have a very good game plan either. It's going to be a total mess no matter what, I fear.

"Unless you are drawn in because of financial circumstances, it's very hard for me to imagine anyone with a good system of values wanting to go into the armed services"

That is a very offensive statement IMO. There are other things I might say but Flatus and Maggis have covered most of what I would say. I will point out that I have family in the military and I don't know any of them to be morally deficient. I will put their value system up against yours any day.

Jack

Here's a link a little closer to home.

http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?parm1=5

Nelson Decker: What more could possibly come out about Obama's church? Let's face it, nothing that we know about his 20 years of association with radicals and hate-mongers has stuck to him at all. He merely has to state that none of these people represent his views, and all is forgiven.

Maggisd,

Oh, and about Dennis K. I know he's a pacifist, which I am as well, but isn't he great otherwise? Few politicians have the courage to stand up and openly discuss the issues he does. It's principles over politics with that guy.

All I'm saying is let's give peace a chance : )

Rumor of the Aftenoon: Hillary Says She's Open to VP Slot
By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 02:43:50 PM EST
Tags: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, 2008 (all tags)
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/6/3/154350/8941

completely anonymous sources
when you have someone on the record for today let me know

maggi, of course that is the subject of Pat Buchannon's new book. (The WWII part, that is).

BTW, that CQ story about Hillary being open to the VP slot includes a bunch of inference on the part of the source who participated in the Hispanic conference call - too much for me to take it seriously.

mag- from what i hear the tape would show that he was not only there for the hate speach, but was an enthusiastic participant.
but you are right, the media will let it slide. lord knows, BHO walks on water.
but i don't think the whait folks in wva is gonna vote fer him

Jack,

Point taken. Perhaps I was a bit too forceful in my language. Here's a better, though less concise, way to put it: I understand people are forced into the military for a number of issues (financial; family legacy; lack of education; and so on), and that's totally fine. They can't help their situation anymore than we can ours. But those who join today, knowing what the military stands for these days, as in post-Vietnam, don't hold my values. We can blame leadership, flawed war plans, whatever. But there's something about the military that has always bothered me: their readiness to uncritically charge into battle. As I said, I have family with military experience, too. We should have all learned a lesson, really starting with Korea, and that is to always, always, always ask questions, raise our voices, and demand that our country do the right thing.

He merely has to state that none of these people represent his views, and all is forgiven. Posted by: maggisd

Maggi, it's stuck with half of us. Just not with the half that already supported him no matter what. Look at these last several elections. Hillary has won by a landslide.

PoU

You may be a pacifist because my nephew and others like him aren't. Because of him and many others like him, you may maintain your lifestyle with out threat of harm. The least you can do is be respectful

Jack

It's principles over politics with that guy.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia | June 3, 2008 4:21 PM

Don't you think it's easier for him to put principles above politics since he pretty much never had a chance of winning anyway? He wasn't risking much anyway.

PofU: My point about everything is this ... "the best laid plans of mice and men...etc"
The issues change, circumstances change. As Sen Clinton so often pointed out, one the lights are gone and the President is alone with the decisions, that's when reality kicks in.
And, there's no such thing as a foolproof plan. About anything. Are we all still gung-ho for Ethanol as the solution to global climate change? What about the cap and trade system currently being pushed? Anyone think that one's gonna work?
I look at Sen McCain and I see a man of my generation ... a man I've met and a man known to people who are friends of mine. Do I agree with him on everything? No. But I feel that he represents a world I understand. And I know he isn't George W Bush.
Would he have been my first choice? No....not even my second choice, in a more perfect world. But I cannot and will not vote for a man who felt that winning the Presidency was so important that he had to demonize the only two-term Democratic president since FDR -- not to mention that he also never mentions LBJ. IMHO he is not a Democrat, he is a radical...

maggisd,

Very good post. I can respect your position without quarrel, though I am an Obama supporter. You clearly thought through your position, and that's rare to find these days.

Truce.

at any rate, father farhead did it for me. i know there is no logic in my logic, but i will not vote for BHO.
i'm just being pissy, but that really made me angry.

HRC has won the last few primaries by 'landslide' margins because she was effectively uncontested for them. After NC and IN, there were more SDs up for grabs than pledged delegates, rendering the primaries since moot. The Obama campaign shifted focus to converting SDs, while HC continued her populist power play to gain leverage in the rest of the process.

Of course the media has been playing along, because everyone loves political theater!

chloe,

you can look at it that way, or you also say: it takes a lot of guts; yes, he probably won't win, but at least there's someone out there talking about this stuff. it's always important to give representation to oppositional politics in the presidential race. also, he's had a career of making good on his principles. he is a rare and special kind of politician.

Nelson, I can assure tyou the "whait folks in wv" aren't going to vote for him in sufficient numbers for him to win - but it will be almost as much because of that old handgun position as because of his skin color.

PoU, having lived through post Vietnam and now through the current mideast debacle, while there are some superficial parallels, I do not see a lot of similarity between the two conflicts or the attitude of the population toward the military. After VN, people (wrongly IMV) blamed the GIs for the decisions of their superiors and their actions in following those decisions, which they followed in some measure to try and survive to come home - thanks in large part to incidents like Mi Li. I don't think there are many people in this country who blame our current military for the mess we are in or their actions there.

Bradley Leighton's version of "Battle Humn of the Republic" on jazz flute

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67CyIRzV8g4

Jack

Did somebody post already:

Father Pfleger has resigned the priesthood.

Very Interesting.

Pogo: I think Buchanan probably would have liked WWII better if we had been on the other side.

No, actually I know that Buchanan is a dedicated isolationist as well as a chauvinist ... but he's also a pretty smart political observer.

good news jamie, he offended every bone in my body

Cnn is saying that Hillary New York officials shes open to being considered for vp And McAuliff is sitting right there, not confirming or denying.

Jamie: He didn't leave the priesthood; it left him.

Sorry, I couldn't resist that one.

Gotta go folks, have to drive my daughter on an errand

Nelson

Clarification. He hasn't resigned. The archbishop has "temporarily" removed and reassigned him to other duties.

Maybe he will get what I suggested yesterday - 20 years with the Trappist Monks keeping his mouth shut.

So Hillary is done. Good race run. Now time to beat McCain.

Jamie,

I suspect that the father, not committing the sin of child rape, went too far for the comfort of his bishop when he made his anti hillary rant in a non catholic church...

With regards to Pat Buchanan, he is one of the few pundits who maintains a consistent position when it comes to political matters, whether they offend or not. Here is an excellent political tactician who reads the tea leaves better than most. He is one of the few Republicans who can offer unbiased opinions about a Democratic candidate and to quote my father, though he would say it in creole, "he is one crazy asshole"

Maggs, he may very well have been. (And actually, you are right. He may be a bigot, but he would not have been a Nazi).

As to Pfleger, I say good riddance. The world needs fewer priests like him.

Toodles, all - gotta go see if the rain coming screws up a soccer game - the last one of the season (thank god).

HRC has won the last few primaries by 'landslide' margins because she was effectively uncontested for them. Champ

Obama out spent her in all those states. He may have not shown enough respect for those people to visit there as much as he should have, but the reason for that is he knew he would lose, and wanted to appear he didn't care.

Damn, jamie, you burst my bubble.

BTW, let's not lose site of the fact that after three hundred years of slavery and one hundred years of codified second class citizenship, an African American man will be the nominee of a major political party in America. My mother and father grew up in a segregated Texas where they had books from the 1920s in the 1950s. They never thought this would happen. I'm only five generations from slavery and I'm utterly stunned. This is why America is great, even with its flaws. It's the promise that we can change, move forward and progress. It may be slow, it may be painful, and it may be difficult. But America does change.

Barack Obama: Democratic nominee for the presidency of the United States.

My uncle grew up in DC with Buchanan and said that when they were teenagers, Buchanan used to throw rocks at black maids lining up in the morning. I have no respect for that racist.

Mr. Democrat,

Great post. Sometimes that fact gets lost in the midst of all the arguing. This is truly a historic day!

Pogo, it is far more simple than that.

http://stubbornfacts.us/domestic_policy/life_issues/heresy_redux

One conservative blogger who is pro-life concludes that the 14th plumbed of its originalist intent (something that is done by looking for how words were used at the time and what their definitions were) shows the founders did not consider fetuses, "persons". This is very inportant in the pro-life debate. Scalia is force to agree because he follows an orginalist intent view. It would be activist of him to put some meaning into the Constitution where none existed and SAY that our founders considered fetuses persons. So it is not hard to find how the founders used words and try to interpret new laws by the meaning defined by the founder's discursive context. Similar aporaches can be found in regarding the 2nd.

Activist judges tend to papply todays definitions to yesterdays words. They want to expand the definition of commerce to incude regulating behavior our founders would consider beyond the scope of commerce. Despite the 2nd and the recognized inherent right of citizens to own guns for SELF PROTECTION, not mentioned in the Consitution, there is a memo notated by Obama that gives a yes answer to the question, "Do you support a total gun ban?" This would be highly activist by the court to support. The Constitution is not very clear on privacy, and some seek to expand privacy under the slogan of "protecting constitutional privacy". Others want to expand the Freedom of the Press, reserved for the "people" to grant new protections to the Press elite. Our modern history is wrought with activism. So I find it hard to understand why you seem confused about the difference between originalist intent v activism. That should be clear enough. Frankly, many of the Far Left would like noting better than to change the Constitution into a more socialistic document. They regard the inherent tension in our polity as something bad abd that domination by Very Liberal values is moving center....LOL

Sorry, Jefferson AND Adams would not agree. Given that Obama is supposed to be a Constitutional Scholar, I find his positions regarding mandates, executive power, privacy, the role of international agencies etc. highly troubling. His recent outcry over changing the bar of affirmative action in public schools contrary to the color-blind nature of the Consitution, whether we screwed up as humans or not. All men (and women) are created equal. It is rally that simple. His Constitutional

i must apoligize for an earlier comment, i sounded awful. i was thinking out loud, sort of.
or my fingers just moved faster than my mind.

Elvis Presley: Gospel "O Happy Day"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dGVqFPQF8E

Jack

Did everyone hear on Fox that Obama has clinched the nomination?

So Obama like. He couldn't wait until after the last vote came in. Once again, what did that gain him by not being well mannered.

McCain will be delivering a previously unannounced speech tonight at 9 PM ET in Louisiana. Apparently, he will praise Clinton for running a hard campaign and then officially acknowledge Obama as the nominee. Oh, and then attack him : )

PoU - You "don't give a damn" where Maggi lives?
I never envisioned Utopia as being crass

Jamie - thanks for the idea of voting for a 3rd party candidate. You're right about the vote total and just knew someone could see it more clearly than I. Numbers don't speak to me - there are only ten of them, after all. Now, letters.......

I just want some rum and cokes.

PRESUMPTIVE

bethyboo,

Oh, I forgot this was teatime in the 1910's.

Ok, I couldn't resist. Just joshing around. : )

How obscene that in this historic win, that there's ANY suggestion that Sen. Obama should not be permitted to pick his own running mate. VERY obscene.

And we should also understand that Hillary's campaign was historic. No longer do we impose a glass ceiling about which gender can be a presidential candidate. It used to be thought that only a man hating Republican woman would get the nod. Hillary proved that you didn't have to be that. So bravo to that too. Basically, the Democratic Party, throughout the sturm und drang, still proved that it's much more willing to find an African American, a woman, a Latino, an Asian, a gay and lesbian, as the flag bearer for the party versus the Republicans. And even if we're angry now, and some will stop speaking, our party will come back together. I'd still have a drink with Bill Clinton, just because I'd love to hear the stories.

Jamie - thanks for the idea of voting for a 3rd party candidate.

Posted by: bethyboo

Why not just write-in HRC?

Oh, by the way, buyer's remorse has already set in for me. Maybe Hillary is the better candidate after all... at least we won't have to hear from Bill too much.

I think it's all time to come together and simply be happy for what is unfolding today. It will be HRC's job to unite the party, and I hope she's up for the task. I think she will be.

"As I was riding the subway earlier, there were some black kids sitting across from me, I guess they were about 8 or 9. I thought to myself, for the first time they can think , yes they can grow up to be president of the United States. I was almost moved to tears."

I guess none of the black kids were girls.

I think it's all time to come together and simply be happy for what is unfolding today. Posted by: Politics of Utopia

You have got to be kidding.
Haven't you heard anything anyone's been saying.

I guess none of the black kids were girls.

Posted by: Flatus

You're an idiot.

You're an idiot.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia

Typical answer from one of the "nice people".
You probably don't even get it.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to sit here and idly ignore idiotic comments like that one made by Flatus. Just because you're candidate lost, there's no excuse to tear down the historic candidacy of Obama. HRC did not lose because she was a women. Period. Ignoring race, and then crying foul on gender is foolish, and, well...it's certainly not race-friendly, that's all I'll say.

Sorry again for the typos. Firing 'em off too quickly today.

I really want to respect the feelings that Clinton supporters are feeling now, but I sure wish they would fault the lousy campaign that Clinton and her camp ran and stop faulting Sen. Obama for it.

What concerns are there about McCain?

Besides the fact that 'Foreclosre Phil' Gramm is his economic adviser? (Google the nickname)

That he doesn't know the difference between the Sunni and the Shia?

That even Dick Cheney thinks the gas tax holiday is a joke?

That he declares areas of Iraq 'peaceful' on a day when there are huge bombings?

That he claims Iraq is so safe he walked around with no armor, and video shows him in body armor and with a security detail?

That he supported fair immigration policies and then turned against htem when he got the nod?

That he's back off of an environmental policy that he originally supported?

That he's shown sexist behavior in the past (not just the 'beat the bitch' comment he laughed at but the swipe a teenaged Chelsea Clinton and Janet Reno)?

That he doesn't think that women should have the right to choose?

How many other 'concerns' would you like to see posted? I've got MORE.

simply be happy ...
--Politics of Utopia

yes, and if you can't find it in your heart to be happy...take a moment of silence to count all the blessings in your life..that will always bring on smiles!!

OR

have another drink and watch this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nDClh9NpZw

8~P

Sorry again for the typos.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia

Typos are the least of your worries.

craig,
whats gonna happen when some of these guys don't have HRC to kick around?
if, if, HRC was to run as third party, what would happen?

Period. Ignoring race, and then crying foul on gender is foolish,
Posted by: Politics of Utopia

No ones crying foul on gender.
Are you completely incapable of seeing both sides of this?

All right, cats, I gotta go. I'll probably pop back in later when things start to heat up.

To all of those still stuck in the old paradigm of a party controlled by a couple named Clinton, in words far too eloquent to have come from my own lips:

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

Obama 08!

P-U,

It's not over until the convention. Period.

Race-friendly? What does that mean? Women are to be used, but be friendly when it comes to race??

This country is years behind the rest of the world in recognizing that girls can be come leaders in the finest sense of the word.

PoU

"Ignoring race, and then crying foul on gender is foolish, and, well...it's certainly not race-friendly, that's all I'll say"

You don't understand. Those of us who supported Clinton (particularly those dubbed the "Clintonistas" and "Bitter Old Women") have been called every name in the book, and the one that enraged us most was "racist" because of 40 years of labor to make it possible for a Barack Obama to run at all.

It has been unbelievably ugly to have our candidate and ourselves trashed repeatedly. It has been framed that we were "against" when we were very decidedly "for".

Now if Sen Obama wants our votes then he darn well better cough up some respect and he could start by telling all the fools in both the media and on the internet that they were wrong and that there is no way their statements reflect his view. Instead we are getting more of the same with "good enough" bs.

That four delegate theft the other day just to prove the power was there was not the best place to start.

So were any of those black children girls?

"Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand"

Good luck getting Obama elected if this is your attitude

Ok. One last comment and then I've gotta split.

I love this four delegate complaint. You do realize the irony of complaining about taking four votes, right, especially when it comes to the historical importance of Obama's campaign, right?

Taking four votes? In a country that, from the beginning, took every definition of humanity away from black folks! In fact, the very White House, where Obama will one day sit, was built by dehumanizing slave labor. So don't give me this four delegates BS. I would hope you're above it. Give me a break.

but even MSNBC is reporting that the Obama camp was responsible for the false AP reports this morning. He could at least have tried not to do voter suppression today.

I think it's appalling that anyone would claim that they're not supporting a candidate because of that candidate's supporters. If that's the case, should Clinton manage to somehow convince supers that she deserves the nod, I'd never vote for her, either, based on some of the racist crap I've read from people who call themselves HER supporters.

Politics of Utopia -

-You related to Write?

Okay Nanny. But Obama will be your president too.

Well,

How many times before major state primaries did the Obama camp announce a major movement of superdelegates to their slate which never took place?

Stupid?

Deluded?

Calculating liars?

"But Obama will be your president too."

Depends ... President Gore

just say no to BHO

Fox has some exit polls coming up after the break.
Said they're very interesting.
Juan Williams analyzing.

16 more to go !

Maxine Waters just switched

"that they're not supporting a candidate because of that candidate's supporters"

We will try to make this clearer. It isn't the supporters. It is him. It is the arrogance of either not recognizing or actively condoning what was being done in his name by his own surrogates as well as the on line media.

It has been months and months of rudeness and insensitivity. I would ask him if his grandmother didn't teach him better manners, but she is just another "typical white woman" to be ignored once her duties were done.

I am learning a lot about Mr. Obama's supporters here.

Take off your victim shirt. It clashes with your hypocrisy. You see sexism everywhere, but racism nowhere. Let it all go.

I think it is going to be interesting to see Obama face off McCain in debates. There will be areas of contention and differences, he won't be able to just answer , " ...yeah, yeah I agree with what Hillary said."

Obama may just loose the whole GE on his own, fair and square. So far, I think there has been a successful effort put forth to degrade the HRC supporters perhaps even beyond repair.

I for one, never liked Obama as a candidate for this position and currently, I have yet to see anything that would change my opinion. I am happy for those of you who support him and hope you have an exciting campaign.

peace~

I would expect Maxine to switch today. She needs to protect her standing and district.

I wish Matthews would stop saying "wins the nomination". He knows better. "presumptive nominee" . Maybe the Democratic party is trying to save money by not bothering with a convention.

"As I was riding the subway earlier, there were some black kids sitting across from me, I guess they were about 8 or 9. I thought to myself, for the first time they can think , yes they can grow up to be president of the United States. I was almost moved to tears."

the way the media and BHO supporters trashed not only the clintons, but the people that belived in her.....
that is very hurtful. maybe HRC can forgive and forget, but i will not. i do not watch msnbc anymore, i don't think i am the only one. i am not contributing to the dnc anymore. i hear how angry HRC people are, bull! it was the BHO people that got personal! and nasty!

No Nanny, this is the world we live in. Let's just get along.

Let's just get along. Posted by: Mr. Democrat

Please. Since when.

dog,

Oh, that I know.

What I wrote about was a pattern of perhaps pre-emptive announcements prior to voting on big state primary days...

That the next morning there would be a significant declaration with side switching of superdelegates which never happened.

And they were presented as before the fact facts.

Hooray for the eternal/infernal politics, I guess.

Let's just get along.

Posted by: Mr. Democrat | June 3, 2008 5:54 PM

That's what batterers say. STFU

unlikely,
couldn't agree more.

It's Patsi as PFFFT! Welcome back, Patsi!

Rachel Maddow just decreed that Hillary's supporters are no longer important and will shrink to a tiny group no one needs to consider.

Wonder what part of 17 million voters she thinks is tiny.

10% 1.7 Million
1% 170 thousand

What was the difference in the Popular vote last time and how many voting women live in Florida? : )

Oh yeah, Maxine, Charles Rangel, Stephanie "Smiley" Tubbs-Jones and Sheila "I got booed in my district" Jackson Lee, are all going to get off the Clinton ship as fast as they can. But not so fast. Black voters have LONG memories and watch as they struggle in their next election.

it good to know that i don't matter

Rachel Maddow just decreed that Hillary's supporters are no longer important and will shrink to a tiny group no one needs to consider. Jamie

Isn't that what they've been saying all along?
Sure glad she reminded us.

MD

So forget all the good they have done. How loyal they have been. All the years of service they have give. All the battles they have fought on behalf of their districts.

All that matters to you is that they made a promise you didn't like and like honorable people they kept that promise.

Well that doesn't say much for your ethics, now does it?

The quote below is from the "educated class" above

Posted by: Denni
"I really want to respect the feelings that Clinton supporters are feeling now, but I sure wish they would fault the lousy campaign that Clinton and her camp ran and stop faulting Sen. Obama for it."

At first they want to RESPECT then go on to call Hillary's campaign LOUSY.

No we get it! And you won't get our Votes you Obama Hag!
Keep up the insults see how many votes you garner!

I love this four delegate complaint. You do realize the irony of complaining about taking four votes, right, especially when it comes to the historical importance of Obama's campaign, right?
Posted by: Politics of Utopia | June 3, 2008 5:36 PM

No, we don't see the irony. Women were just as oppressed back in the day, were treated like chattel, and in fact got the vote later than AAs, so please don't bring up past atrocities to justify his taking the four delegates. You don't want to sound like a victim, now, do you? If he had been magnamimous and had given her the four delegates, especially since he didn't need them, that would have gone a LONG way towards unity. But this is something he is obviously not interested in.

Despite raising a record amount of money in the primaries, Obama has also spent the most of any candidate to get to this point. Together with the DNC he will begin the next phase of the campaign with less cash on hand than Senator McCain’s campaign and the RNC.

* The DNC itself faces nearly a 9:1 cash-on-hand disadvantage versus the RNC.

* And this leads us to the DNC rules committee meeting on Saturday when the Democrat party leadership again failed to promote the unity that their party desperately lacks. Howard Dean’s fractious meeting of party elders seems a fitting exclamation point to this year’s Democrat primary season."

Obama's unfavorable ratings among women have increased. I doubt they are all blog readers.

Jamie

Remember all the rest of the predictions the Obama fools have made in here. How much do you want to bet all those black leaders are back in congress next year?
Bet on each one and you will make money.

Jack

We made one prediction that came true. Barack Obama is the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee.

Puppy killer alert on CNN

Cruella Deville lives.

Mr. Democrat -- I completely honor your sentiments in your 4:52 post. But isn't it ironic that Obama is not at all the product of slavery? That he has absolutely no slave ancestors?

Angela Davis wrote in her 1974 autobiography that she and her sister used to pretend that they were from Africa when they went into the white sections of their hometown of Birmingham, AL -- and they were amazed at how differently they were treated. They were not scorned as they would have been if they went into shops as Black Americans. When they appeared as Africans they were celebrated as international curiosities.

Hillary's campaign was LOUSY!

Her plan was to campaign until Feb. 5th and that it would be over, HER words.

It's not like I called HER lousy or call her supporters "Hillary FOOLS'.. not a decent thing to do Jack.

I signed up with the Obama campaign last summer,

Here's some of the respect we got on December 30th,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saBU6ux0hsQ

Remember?

"It will be over February 5th."'-HRC

One of the myths about the African American community is that you have to be a descendant of slaves. We're an inclusive community, tied together by a multitude of cultures and politically by our skin color. So Marcus Garvey and Malcolm X were African American, even though part of their roots were Caribbean. It's not unusual at all. In fact, I've always said that folks only parse the "authenticity" of our blackness when they want to divide us (and not saying you're trying to do that, by the way.). But good questions.

Puppy killer alert on CNN

Cruella Deville lives.

Posted by: Jamie Author Profile Page | June 3, 2008 6:15 PM

Clinton won the nomination?

BTW Alicia, one of the GREAT ironies is that when you're an African American traveling abroad, it's often the first time that African Americans feel like a regular American, rather than a minority, simply because people react to you as an American first and your skin color later. It's very, very strange.

Boy is CNN excited with 12 delegates to go. MSNBC must be jumping out of their skin by now.

No Sen. McCaskill opened her mouth and lied as usual

Denni,

You keep threatening to leave-well what the F*** are you waiting for?

It's not unusual at all. In fact, I've always said that folks only parse the "authenticity" of our blackness when they want to divide us (and not saying you're trying to do that, by the way

As opposed to the claptrap you have posted here about what is a feminist.

Exactly, Rezdog. Clinton's campaign was felled by a campaign strategist who didn't seem to understand the process and continued collecting fat checks.

There are a number of things I believe that Clinton would do differently.

To pretend she had a perfect campaign and was 'cheated' by others is unfair and deceitful, IMO. She was left playing 'catch up' and that's what hurt her chances to win. There should never be a 'kitchen sink' strategy WITHIN party, it's a sign that there are many problems with the campaign itself. It's asign of desperation.

Patsi, ray of sunshine, where did I threaten to 'leave'? You must be confusing me with someone else.

Changing by the minute, right Wolfie, it's been 12 for over an hr now. Spin, Spin, Spin.

Mr. Democrat

Now acceptance is an interesting subject. When I am around AA friends it is very easy and comfortable. When I encounter AA people who don't know me, there is a caution barrier, an air of suspicion as if waiting for an injury.

It's almost a chicken/egg situation. AA have historical reasons to be suspicious and racist events even though they are decreasing still happen regularly, but unfortunately that wariness extends to others who have no animosity at all and probably gets in the way of understanding.

I hope their ratings tank over the next several months and they wish they had these days back.

Obama supporter, what on earth will you post when beating up on Hillary is no longer relevant? If Obama has won the nomination (presumptively) that time would be now wouldn't it?

MD

You are peddling bullshit.

Do you want me to list some of the different levels of acceptence in the AA community.
Starting with why did Obama have to join a church.
what did Meeks mean when he said "house nigger"

And so on and so on

Bash Bill then get all excited about 12 delegates left then Hillary as VP? What a combo.

vadaryl

Yes if the reporting had been fairer, they could probably have kept the neck and neck campaign going until the convention with a brokered convention to cover. Talk about through the roof ratings.

Now it's going to be a dead summer.

Yep, they need to get their last parting shots at Bill and Hillary while we are still watching. We the viewers will be taking a few months off and see ya again in August.

Personally, I hope Hillary does not want the VP position, and I hope she doesn't end up on the ticket.

I think that BHO should be his own man, without someone with more experience watching over his shoulder 24/7.

Craig,

If you are around. I've seen a rumor of RFK, Jr. as a potential VP ... any reality?

BriBri,

You like that "Garlic Nosed" stuff! We're gona stuff you in the general--Enjoy

Denni -
Stop trying to win us bitter old women and bitter old men over with your charm and tender entreaties for unity to help your candidate win in the general election. It's been made abundantly clear to us that our votes, our time, our money and our energies are not needed, wanted or important to the Obama campaign. So I'm sure you all will be just fine getting on without us.

Mr democrat,

BHO is not ,is not african american. His genealogy proves hat he has not one bone of afircan american descendancy in him. He is ARAB on his fathers side and white on maternal side traced back to 1600. His arab genealogy were slave traders. His white family owned slaved in 1850's and back.

Yep, they need to get their last parting shots at Bill and Hillary while we are still watching. We the viewers will be taking a few months off and see ya again in August. Posted by: vadaryl

vad, Don't let them chase you off. We'll need each other's support more than ever. What they are doing is the same thing they've been doing all along. It's their character. Soon they'll turn it on McCain. The best revenge is to get behind McCain and support him or anyone else other than Obama. And it will show the DNC that our memories aren't as short as they think.

I'm not trying to win you over. The polls are on Obama's side already. I don't have any hatred for Hillary supporters, that's the difference. Trust me when I tell you that I don't feel the need to kiss up to Clinton supporters.

I try to be objective. It helps that I think Mark Penn is a sleaze and that he owes the hardworking people who donated that cash a refund.

I do despise many on the Clinton team (Wolfson, McAuliffe, Davis - and anyone else who kissed up to Fox News -- that crap wasn't cool. Maybe they need to be reminded of what that network was running as 'news' before, and was planning to run again if Hannity was to be believed)

Julie, you might wnat to take your research more seriously. Obama's father was not Arabic. I know that was probably posted to push some sort of Panic button. Too bad, that's never what the Democratic Party has been about, well, not since the Dixiecrats jumped ship. I hope there are those 'Democrats' who are trying to reintroduce bigotry back into the party.

Obama is of African and American descent... he's African American.

Bri-Bri,

You're nice enough.

"Trust me when I tell you that I don't feel the need to kiss up to Clinton supporters." Denni

lol - well duh......you crack me up.

A whole generation from the entertainment industry is passing away: Mel Ferrer has died

http://www.comcast.net/articles/entertainment/20080603/Obit.Ferrer/

Bri-Bri,

How many posts did I make today?

An utter few involved you.

You seemed so truly happy and full of confidence a second ago.

And now you seethe?

Cognitive dissonance is some hobby for you.

Clinton Backers Cool to Obama – White Female Support in Question
MCCAIN’S NEGATIVES MOSTLY POLITICAL, OBAMA’S MORE PERSONAL
http://people-press.org/reports/pdf/425.pdf

LOL and we can make a deal with political differences, but personal goes to the bone.
More trouble for Obama on his wedding night.

Jack

---Jamie,

"Do you know what will happen to Hillary's donor list now? I was thinking that maybe we should email her and request that she not turn it over to Obama. What do you think?"---

I wonder how many convicted felons are on that list. Anyhow, with over $10 million in debt, I'm sure she'd be happy to give it to him.

Denni

I take my genealogy very seriously and I know of what I speak.. He has no oe bone of african american genealogy. PROVEN.. His fathers family - Arab

julie

A few years ago , I went to my sister's Catholic church. They had another priest leading the service that day. Not their usual priest. This priest's sermon was directly about the war in Iraq and how wrong it was. He was clearly taking jabs at Bush. I later said to my sister , "That was great! Did you see how many people applauded his sermon?" My sister said , "Father Phil wouldn't have liked that! He was using the pulpit to express his personal views!"

Julie
what is your definition of African American?

Jack

biteme,

Like their leader, the Obamabots plagiarize and give no credit to Dylan. This is the new way of change.

Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

what other presidential candidate ran a better campaing on CHANGE? George Bush, Obama's hero.

For my fellow Hillary Clinton supporters and our gracious host Craig Crawford, thank you for this forum as a place to vent and discuss. (When the Obamababies weren't peeing in the pool.)

Keep fighting the good fight.

As for the future of the Democratic Party, I leave it to the deluded. Rest assured in January we will watch another Republican be handed the keys to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

I have been told I am bitter, old, stupid, racist and not important. I know when I am not wanted. The Democrats have their candidate and we as citizens will once again suffer as we endure another four years of Republican mismanagement and destruction of our country. So be it.

"Barack Obama, Sr., was born in 1936 in Nyangoma-Kogelo, Siaya District (now in Bondo District), Kenya. His father, Hussein Onyango Obama (c. 1895-1979),[1] belonged to the Luo tribe.

Before working as a cook for missionaries in Nairobi, Onyango had travelled widely, enlisting in the British colonial forces during World War I and visiting Europe, India, and Zanzibar, where he converted from Christianity to Islam and added Hussein to his name.[5] Onyango had at least three wives; Barack Obama Sr. was the son of Akuma, the second wife. However, he was raised by Onyango's third wife, Sarah, after Akuma left her family.[1]

Obama Sr. grew up in Nyangoma-Kogelo. At 18, he married a young woman named Kezia in a tribal ceremony. They had four children, two of them after he returned to Kenya from the United States. He never divorced Kezia, who now lives in Bracknell, UK.[6]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_Sr.

There are a number of other DOCUMENTED sources, if you're interested.

Mrs Clinton's donor list.

It's worth big bucks. She should sell it to Mr Obama for the amount of her campaign debt--what is it $20M?

Yeah, my name's on it, many times, he said with pride!

Happy Hour must have ended at 6:00. I guess I missed it , because it doesn't sound too happy in here right now.

Bear,

There was a follow up. The Archbishop removed him for two weeks with instructions to contemplate his actions. Father Pfleger wrote in disagreement with the Archbishop, but the Archbishop said, "go on vacation anyway".

That is where it stands. St. Sabina is a very community active church and he has served them for 30 years. A good think may be all that really needs to happen.

"an "over 50" writer in lower Manhattan, was pretty straightforward: "I am so tired as a white, ultra-liberal, McGovern-voting, civil-rights marching, anti-war fighting highly educated professional woman who totally supports Hillary Clinton to be attacked and vilified as racist and or dumb.""

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/06/white_women_take_the_gloves_of.html

if you didn't read this when I posted it this morning you should.

Jack

Alicia and all Clinton women,

If I hear one more Obama supporter or pundit say that all us "angry"
white women Clintonistas will happily fall in line behind Obama in
the general election because four months is a long time and by
then we'll all come to our senses and vote for the new leader
of the Democratic party, I'll scream!

BTW,

Did you know he has two adopted children? I would love to know how that came about since it is so hard for priests to get permission for families.

Jack,

African American in genealogy terms, means black people who are descendants of slaves brought into America from africa. And a few from other places as well.

julie

I have been told I am bitter, old, stupid, racist and not important.
Posted by: GAKaren Author Profile Page | June 3, 2008 6:52 PM

Karen, we need to remember this.
We have to make sure the DNC know that this was unacceptable. Stick around.

"Obamabots", "Obamababies", "Obama morons"... I keep reading that it's the Hillary supporters who are being disrespected, but see more attacks on Obama supporters.

Question. Are people posting here actually Democrats? Life long? Newly minted? Former Republicans? Just curious.

As for the break-in at the Kent County Republican headquarters late last week , they are now going to have a full-time security guard there. They said the last time they needed to have a full-time security guard was during the 2004 election.

Will the DNC ask Hillary Supporters to also stop making ugly comments about Obama supporters too? Oh, let's hope.

BTW, some of Clinton's top donors and fundraisers have already been meeting with Obama fundraisers for weeks.

I have been told I am bitter, old, stupid, racist and not important.
Posted by: GAKaren Author Profile Page | June 3, 2008 6:52 PM

Perhaps those who have told you this are correct. Did you ever think of that?

Run, Corey! It's a raging cesspool in here right now! And some of C-list's best and brightest can't even recognize when they're being played by trolls.

I wouldn't stay if I could right now, but gotta' run...important stuff to be done....

HW
lol

Point taken
let's just do some music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuOdZdBYYwk
Jack

YES! Fox News is finally admitting that Rove is a McCain adviser... LOL, dirty dirty dirty.

Denni: So now your questioning our pedigrees as Democrats because we don't like your candidate?

No one has to justify themselves to you because frankly, I don't give a hoot what you think of me or anyone else that doesn't subscribe to your vision of the world.

I do not support Senator Obama. I do not believe he will be a good president. I do not judge him by the color of his skin but I think he has used race to bludgeon those that aren't supporting him. He has trashed the administration of a very successful Democratic president for his own political aspirations while all the time claiming to be different and above the fray.

He is a ruthless politician that allows his surrogates to keep his hands clean so he can stand atop his altar and tell us how transformative he is.

If you can't handle the fact that there are people that don't like your candidate, that's your problem.

"If I hear one more Obama supporter or pundit say that all us "angry"
white women Clintonistas will happily fall in line behind Obama in
the general election because four months is a long time and by
then we'll all come to our senses and vote for the new leader
of the Democratic party, I'll scream!"

Amen Prof Marcia. I think that would have been more the case for Obama supporters since many of them are new to politics. Most of Clinton supporters are pretty hard core.

Carol

Viv,

You acted confused when I mentioned on the past thread about the woman "going off the deep end" for Clinton. I thought she gave out too much information and her rants are probably going on in many households of Clinton supporters on this blog. Actually, she doesn't live in Manhattan; she lives in the Bronx. So be it. I don't give a rats ass where she lives but I know anyone a little savvy can find out much about her. Just so you know what I was talking about when you were so confused.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KACQuZVAE3s

Also, they need to get those popular votes "fixed" or else stop publishing them because they DO NOT INCLUDE EVERY VOTER. Clinton can shut her mouth about popular votes because her total does not convey everyone who voted in this primary. Nuff said!!

have been told I am bitter, old, stupid, racist and not important.
Posted by: GAKaren Author Profile Page | June 3, 2008 6:52 PM

Perhaps those who have told you this are correct. Did you ever think of that?

Posted by: bosr | June 3, 2008 7:02 PM

Bosr: How transformative, how different. Such an agent of change and peace, beauty, tranquility. Thank you for welcoming us to your new vision of the world with such open arms.

Notice

For those who are planning on changing their party affiliation, tomorrow is a good day to do it. Will let the DNC and Obama know we are serious.

That is where it stands. St. Sabina is a very community active church and he has served them for 30 years. A good think may be all that really needs to happen.

Posted by: Jamie

Ever read Updike's "A Month of Sundays"?

Please don't think that all of you older "white" women are for Clinton. And, please don't think that everyone over 50 is also for her. Obama has millions of women who fit into that category. I've seen and talked with hundreds. There are even meetups for many groups in my area for women (and men) over 50 who support Obama. Clinton just has the angry women.

It's not enough that we have a first black who is a candidate for the presidency and a first woman who came very close to being the candidate for some of you. Why can't we be appreciative that America has come this far, even though there are still so many bigots, racists and sexists out there. I'm sure he has and still will need to overcome much more than a female. I say that having worked for and with women in high places and that includes women from throughout the world who are very, very successful. They could buy and sell Hillary Rodham Clinton, even with her and Billy's millions.

How transformative, how different. Such an agent of change and peace, beauty, tranquility. Thank you for welcoming us to your new vision of the world with such open arms.

Posted by: GAKaren

Well said -- I love it

Beckel : "tomorrow"

Penn: "could come this week"

Harbor.......book for you, since I've read about your Harlequin book.......

RUBY RED by Wm Price Fox

the rest of his are even much more betterer, but Ruby Red is about Nashville and songwriters......and lol funny..........

karolenna said:
"I'm sure he has and still will need to overcome much more than a female. I say that having worked for and with women in high places and that includes women from throughout the world who are very, very successful. They could buy and sell Hillary Rodham Clinton, even with her and Billy's millions."

all hail karolenna.....the feminists' dream.......

have been told I am bitter, old, stupid, racist and not important.
Posted by: GAKaren Author Profile Page | June 3, 2008 6:52 PM

Perhaps those who have told you this are correct. Did you ever think of that?

Posted by: bosr | June 3, 2008 7:02 PM

Bosr: How transformative, how different. Such an agent of change and peace, beauty, tranquility. Thank you for welcoming us to your new vision of the world with such open arms.

Posted by: GAKaren Author Profile Page | June 3, 2008 7:13 PM

Thanks, you've proved my point.

BTW, I'm not an Obama supporter.

Hey AWW, (angry white women)

Can anyone direct me to the new websites for us AWW? They wrote that there are some in the real clear politics story. This has been about the only site I have felt somewhat comfortable joining.

Carol

That's Sturge , for ya! We need your humor more often!

I agree with GAKaren.

I feel no need to defend or justify the fact I will not vote for Obama.

I am a Democrat who has volunteered to work for Dem candidates in many elections ever since I was in high school. But, I'm devastated by the
ugliness of this primary and wouldn't even consider calling myself a
Democrat anymore.

I know there are many like me and this schism within the party
is serious, deep and will not fade by November.

Simon & Garfunkel - Old Friends
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB0nt22Sgi8

Jack

Please don't think that all of you older "white" women are for Clinton. And, please don't think that everyone over 50 is also for her. Obama has millions of women who fit into that category. I've seen and talked with hundreds. There are even meetups for many groups in my area for women (and men) over 50 who support Obama. Clinton just has the angry women.

Posted by: Karolenna | June 3, 2008 7:20 PM

From Karolenna, the Not Angry Woman:

"No one chased anyone away or suggested they no longer post. You are free to make your case."

Be damned!!!!!!!!!!!! Let's see if this gets through the Craig Crawford scrutinizing or his sidekicks who seem to monitor if you are a pro-Billary supporter. I’ve posted at least a couple of times only to be told it will be checked before posting. NEVER HAVE SEEN ANY POSTINGS I’VE MADE. One was about the pathological liars called the Clintons detailing many of their lies. Never made it. I kept waiting and waiting…never showed up. It is for damned sure that Craig Crawford is for the bitch that will destroy the Democratic Party before she will go down to defeat and it is for damned sure that Craig Crawford and others will never be ones who ever show up on any of my media resources. Never again. I used to respect you. No more!!

Yes, I was “chased away” because I do not agree with the majority of you Billary posters on here. I say damn you and her to hell.

Maybe this post will make it!! But I don’t bet on it!!

Craig gives these little “Captcha’s” you must copy, but when you copy them exactly as they are shown on screen, you never get posted. I will not “sign up” for any forums or blogs ever again because I did once for years on another forum and had some moron from SW Kansas post under my name. I don’t need to tell you the rest.

How deficient does one need to be mentally to destroy a political party to which they are a part of unless they are the “winner”. She can go to God Damn Hell and I hope she and feel for sure that she and BJ will.

Posted by: Karolenna | March 29, 2008 11:09 PM

"BTW, I'm not an Obama supporter"

Bosr
Why would anybody thing that of you.
You a troll. Trolls support themselves, only.

Jack
Feelin' groovey
bababa ba ba ba ba

Yes we can!

Read the fine print: "Make Democrats vote for John McCain."

I know there are many like me and this schism within the party
is serious, deep and will not fade by November."

And if it was forgotten by November, that would be the worst message we could send.

High five for Jack! LOL

Lest we forget

wasn't the first time bad enough?
We don't need any reminders.

Jack

9/11,
"Ever read Updike's "A Month of Sundays"?"

Ever read Vonnegut's ":Welcome to the Monkey House"?

This is a pitiful display.

Not saying that the posts are without merit, just commenting that in a year when so much positive and wonderful progress could have been made, the democratic party thus far has only succeeded in creating a huge pile of crap.

Did the trolls leave so much poop in the pool they were forced to get out?

Bye ... don't the let the blog hit you on your backside on the way out.

Daily.

Here.

Also... all coverage of Duhya's administration's been just a reprint of Vonnegut's entirely prophetic Player Piano.

GAKaren,

And who is the wee bairn who cares not a mouth should not be an anus and an anus not a mouth?

Not saying that the posts are without merit, just commenting that in a year when so much positive and wonderful progress could have been made, the democratic party thus far has only succeeded in creating a huge pile of crap.

Posted by: unlikely_burrito | June 3, 2008 7:34 PM

Burrito: We have Howard Dean to thank for this mess. That guy wouldn't know leadership if it came up and bit him on the butt. He simply doesn't have the instincts or the intuition to know how to handle this CF.

nanny: They're just coming here to gloat, God bless 'em.

From the 1992 movie "School Ties". The final excahnge of dialogue between Brendan Fraser's character David (who was Jewish) and Matt Damon's character Dillion (who was just expelled from school).

Dillion: "You know something? I'm still gonna get into Harvard. And in ten years, nobody's gonna remember any of this. But you'll still be a god damn Jew."

David: "And you'll still be a prick."

Ally: What do you expect from the Democratic Party's "Brain" trust? There hasn't been a brain among them for a very very long time.

this is the best thing Dean ever did...yeeeaahhhh
: )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t-80QAqtSg

Corey,

An uncircumsized one at that.

GA Karen,

And one of them's been living on triple the fiber gloat bran since February.

9/11: LOL.

Dean is a perfect example of a man in a position he's not qualified to hold.

See what happens?

Jack picks up ahand full of peanuts and throws them at 9-11
8888888888888888888888888

Jack

An uncircumsized one at that.
--9/11

I have a friend who was circumcised at age 33...ouch!!

Ohhhhhh...Harold Ford is on MSNBC...woo hoo!!

what a lovely image

**Harold Ford, Jr.

BTW, isn't 2012 the year the Mayans' say the world will end?

Guess we won't have to worry about it. But I'm sure that it will be the Clintons' fault when its all over.

**Harold Ford, Jr.

Posted by: LushIsLinda | June 3, 2008 7:51 PM

He has beautiful eyes. Very nice.

lol
GAK

Are you sure that isn't like stink on poo

Jack

Bear,

I always find your comments well worth my time. They help me better form my own opinions. I'm glad you're back.

Speaking of blaming the Clintons....they showed highlights of one of Andre Agassi's French Open matches from awhile back on the Tennis Channel today. Agassi was playing great when all of a sudden the crowd began to stir. Andre looked up and it was Bill Clinton making an appearance. He was walking to a courtside seat. After that distraction , Agassi played terrible.

Tom Brokaw just bytchslapped Keith Olbarackermann...LMAO!!!!

Is there a set time that Clinton will be speaking tonight? or Obama ?

Stink on poo ... I stand corrected, Jack.
LOL

I think that response is a fine response. I wouldn't read too much in to that one. Sounds exactly like her speech style.

Tom Brokaw just bytchslapped Keith Olbarackermann...LMAO!!!!

Posted by: LushIsLinda | June 3, 2008 7:57 PM

Oh, Linda do tell! Do not frequent MSNBOC any more.

John Edwards adjusted pretty easily to it.

just say no to BHO

I think she will be fine. She'll have plenty of options, she'll be able to pick her path. She will be disappointed for getting so close and not winning. Most likely she'll replay mistakes in her head, but that is not the end of the world. - Everyone has to do that in life at one time or another.

They have their secret service for life and they are still treated like leaders, where ever they go.

Can you imagine when Obama realizes that he's not the "playa" anymore?

Wright told his audience: "As I said to Barack Obama, if you get elected, Nov. 5 I'm coming after you, because you'll be representing a government whose policies grind under people."

Except for the 15 million dollars.

He'll have to return to being a community organizer and running for office. Michelle will have to go back to work to afford their life-style....

i love it when bitter blunted non-entities assess the "playa" status of real people.

Don't hate the playa , hate the game.

living well is the best revenge

Red State Update: "Whoever gets the most rats wins."

Here you go , Flatus.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=playa

This was all planned out for TV.

This was all planned out for TV.

I imagine she may head off to a spa resort for a while, she certainly deserves it.

Flattus
Urban , hip hop, basketball slang

May have been AA once upon a time but moved into general youth culture

Jack

Even McCain will get some air time tonight.

Can't watch MSNBC right now. I just ate and KO is on. Severe gag reflex.

TonyB, I think you really just like miscontruing my statements. WHERE did I say that anyone who doesn't vote for Obama is terrible? First I'm told that I keep threatening to leave (never happened), now I'm told I'm a bad person for saying that people who won't vote for Obama are terrible (WRONG). I said it's appalling to blame SUPPORTERS for your choice of candidate. Buck up and take responsibility for your choices, that's all.

Hey, is it any less sexist to spell 'bitch' as 'bytch'? I'm asking in all sincerity. Is that considered less offensive?

Is Casey Kasem on?

Now would be a great time for that so called tape to be released to make it more interesting

Flatus
http://www.urbandictionary.com/

Why are they pushing this countdown of delegate endorsements. Are they expecting bad news from the last two states?

Champ, was that your attempt of gracious winning? or did you just spot an opportunity to put some one down and run with it?

GAK, I didn't question anyone's pedigree. I asked if people were DEMS on this site. I'm NEW here. Is this a mixed site? A site for Dems only? What's the rub?

I'm a genetic Democrat who became disgusted with the party silence in S. Carolina and have become an Independent, but I still support Dem causes.

I don't like what the Republicans stand for.
I wouldn't vote for McCain if Clinton had won because the Republicans offend my principles and beliefs.

There are a lot of defensive folks here. Not everyone posts her for the