Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Would have to be Clark over Biden

Tough choice, I like them both. Help me with this, somebody.

Repost from last thread -

Bear, the court has stated in numerous opinions that rights are not absolute, and the states can impose reasonable restrictions on rights so long as they don't legislate the rights out of existence. The rub is that the court gets to determine whether a restriction is reasonable. The "bear arms" part of the right would lead to your conclusion. The court would not likely agree that restrictions against carrying concealed weapons are unreasonable in many instances.

Now, on to this one - I would choose Biden, but that;s just me. Both would be good choices - probably why it's so tight (50-49).

Why do some individual promote other blogs here on Craig's blog? Kind of reminds me of those individual in Vegas standing out on the sidewalks trying to steer you to another casino. I get tired of telling them, 'no thanks'. You think they would catch on, but they never do.

chloe, do you prefer civilian control of foreign policy or military control of foreign policy (not a fair choice since Clark is not properly military any longer, but you get my drift.)

Dunno. Clark was a staunch Hil'ry supporter. However, WesPac e-mail has started supporting BO. Biden has the foreign policy experience, but Clark has the uniform. Won't make a bit of difference to me if BO is at the top of the ticket, though.

Fry, good point.

pogo, You prefer Biden, right?
He would be a great VP.

I agree Fry, Gordo should quit trying to steer everyone to the tin foil hat sites. lol

Here is a piece of the DC decision that reflects what I said on the prior thread re: the 2nd amendment.

"We are aware of the problem of handgun violence in this country, and we take seriously the concerns raised by the many amici who believe that prohibition of handgunownership is a solution. The Constitution leaves the District of Columbia a variety of tools for combating that problem, including some measures regulating handguns, see supra, at 54–55, and n. 26. But the enshrinement of constitutional rights necessarily takes certain policychoices off the table. These include the absolute prohibition of handguns held and used for self-defense in the home. Undoubtedly some think that the Second Amendment is outmoded in a society where our standing army is the pride of our Nation, where well-trained police forces provide personal security, and where gun violence is a serious problem. That is perhaps debatable, but what isnot debatable is that it is not the role of this Court to pronounce the Second Amendment extinct."

Stevens authored an extensive dissent that I have not read yet.

I, uh-hum, am gonna have to agree with B'rye's take on this one. A Hil'ry supporter in a uniform would be the most helpful to BO. Plus, there's no pesky voting record.

Here's the nut of Stevens' dissent.

"The Court properly disclaims any interest in evaluating the wisdom of the specific policy choice challenged in thiscase, but it fails to pay heed to a far more important policychoice—the choice made by the Framers themselves. The Court would have us believe that over 200 years ago, theFramers made a choice to limit the tools available to elected officials wishing to regulate civilian uses of weapons, and to authorize this Court to use the common-law process of case-by-case judicial lawmaking to define the contours of acceptable gun control policy. Absent compelling evidence that is nowhere to be found in the Court’s opinion, I could not possibly conclude that the Framers made such a choice."

Back after I look at Breyer's dissent.

right, chloe, I prefer Biden.

Nick.... can I make you some hot cakes?..... ;)
and you don't have to type my whole moniker..... no one here does..... some call me Renee.... some call me RebRen.... most call me RR..... but I have to admit that the last one is also used to reference Ronald Reagan and I sometimes get confused when they are using that way.......

EuroT..... I understand your anger at Nader..... I think he has become a sad caricature of himself..... but he has the right to run for president the same as any other citizen..... I think it was Maggi who posted last night that she thought the media was more to blame for Gore's 2000 lost..... and I agree with that premise.....

Fry.... I agree with you on the gun issue.....
we've had this argument on Craig's blog quite a few times..... it's the same arguments over and over again.... the Supreme Court just made a ruling.... and like it or not, we have to live with it.....

If you don't like your pet name, why do you respond? As for any idiot being able to spell it correctly, well, you certainly seem quite capable.

Chloe,

I think Gen Clark the best choice for this particular job. He won't compete with Mr Obama for the limelight, he will do his homework, he has decades of sworn service to our country, is a technocrat, an organizer, will be willing to do the background tasks, will be able to mobilize teams of apolitical people, etc.

I like Sen Biden tremendously, but Mr Obama needs Gen Clark's skill set for this particular mission.

And here's the basis for Breyer's dissent, in part.

"At the same time the majority ignores a more important question: Given the purposes for which the Framers enacted the Second Amendment, how should it be applied to modern-day circumstances that they could not have anticipated? Assume, for argument’s sake, that the Framers did intend the Amendment to offer a degree of self-defense protection. Does that mean that the Framers also intended to guarantee a right to possess a loaded gun near swimming pools, parks, and playgrounds? That they would not have cared about the children who might pick up a loaded gun on their parents’ bedside table? That they (who certainly showed concern for the risk of fire, see supra, at 5–7) would have lacked concern for the risk of accidental deaths or suicides that readily accessible loaded handguns in urban areas might bring? Unless we believe that they intended future generations to ignore suchmatters, answering questions such as the questions in this case requires judgment—judicial judgment exercised within a framework for constitutional analysis that guidesthat judgment and which makes its exercise transparent. One cannot answer those questions by combining inconclusive
historical research with judicial ipse dixit.

"The argument about method, however, is by far the less important argument surrounding today’s decision. Far more important are the unfortunate consequences that today’s decision is likely to spawn. Not least of these, as I have said, is the fact that the decision threatens to throw into doubt the constitutionality of gun laws throughout the United States. I can find no sound legal basis for launching
the courts on so formidable and potentially dangerous a mission. In my view, there simply is no untouchable constitutional right guaranteed by the Second Amendment to keep loaded handguns in the house in crime-ridden urban areas.

"For these reasons, I conclude that the District’s measure is a proportionate, not a disproportionate, response to the compelling concerns that led the District to adopt it."

Tom, you and Breyer see eye to eye on this issue.

I don't know but its right thats its between Clark and Biden.Im reading Joes book{ Promises To Keep} now and this guys knowledge of foreign affairs is superb!!! Clark is a very smart and upstanding guy with all that military back ground.It seems either one would be a nice choice to give Sen. Obama what he lacks.....

On the DC gunrights case.

1 It does away with the Republican claim that they don't appoint activist judges. Over turning 200 years of law looks plenty activist to me.

2 it was needed. the old law was far too Nineteenth century state control thinking.IMO.

3 considering Scalia wrote it, I was amazed how cautious it was.

4 States rights is fading farther and farther into history.

Jack

I love Joe Biden, but he & Michelle O both suffer from the same foot-in-the-mouth disorder. It would be really hard doing damage control for both of them.

So, I'm voting for Joe.

Pogo thanks for working through all this for the benefit of us mere mortals.

Breyer found one of the absolutes that Scalia was writing about, but came-up with an absurdly nonsensical conclusion in a common-law context:

"...In my view, there simply is no untouchable constitutional right guaranteed by the Second Amendment to keep loaded handguns in the house in crime-ridden urban areas.

Quite simply, where else would one want to keep a handgun? Under a pillow in a well-to-do exurban, gated neighborhood?

Just an aside from last thread...

Lard-cunne... what eeez votre probleme weeez France? We haven already taken back our vin and frites. We'll leave you to your popcorn chicken! hahaha

As opposed to the endless string of garbage you launched over the last six months, misspelling your name is hardly an insult.

Ha! Renee, I hope I never went on a Reagan rant and posted something like:

"RR was a rotten ^%$&* and a dirty (%@#$!!!!!!!!!"

Hmm....would you prefer Blue spell your name the way do: Bri-Bri?

and yes, Politics of Utopia (from previous thread) i just went for a walk doing chores and DC folks are eyeing each other suspiciously now that we can all carry handguns. An older lady in front of me on the sidewalk was toting a mighty large handbag for someone her size.

" An older lady in front of me on the sidewalk was toting a mighty large handbag for someone her size."

No kidding. My son walks a lot in DC...

All he ever writes disappears with the flick of his wrist!!

Like this! Like that! Like it never happened at all!

well, Patsi, it will be interesting to see what the District of Collectivism comes up with to respond to this SCOTUS ruling ("House Counsel" Pogo, i'm enjoying your legal analysis, thanks). Whatever they do, I'm sure it will result in higher taxes and more potholes.

I also carry a large handbag. It's big enough for both a gun and a bible. What would I ever do without it?

six munts ago i cudnt even spell chancelar and now i R one.........

I'm not really hear to chat with you, I'm hear to discuss politics and the campaign

We wish you weren't here at all. No one here wants to hear you.

Lard Chancellor of AHPC has spoken -- consider the issue resolved:

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/biden-and-clark-in-vp-fight.html#comment-107406

unless, of course, appeals are filed with Chairperson LL when he gets back from golf

A Savage Chicken for Political Season

http://www.savagechickens.com/blog/2008/06/anger.html

Jack,
I don't know where you get that the SCOTUS decision on guns is activist. Does anyone here think that the individual right to own a gun was not universally established in Colonial times? What has been activist is the encroachment on this right. Now I am not saying that the government does not have the power to regulate, but that is a bit different than total bans.

Clark and Biden both have some serious issues to deal with should they become VP. Biden has said some things regarding Pakistan and Iraq as well as Iran that have been confused, wrong and contradictory. Clark has some issues as well, but I can see a better fit for Obama with Clark.

I find it rather funny that despite BO claims he is expert enough, he needs national security credientials. Biden's claim that BO is the strongest supporter of Israel is not just butt kissing but wrong.

Biden's stand on missile defense is dangerous as well, though I like the guy. Sure, let China develop anti-ship ballistic missiles and ditch our missile defense program. Clark and Biden both said years back that they would not let Iran field or produce nuclear weapons. Even Biden took a shot at Obama's no new sanction line. And Clark is talking points that NATO and Europe disagree with, on Afghanistan, Iran and the Middle East in general. Biden wanted to cut up Iraq which the world din't want to have done.

How funny is Obama disagreeing with SCOTUS on no capital punishment for child rape? It is a spin to win some soccor moms. And how silly is Obama's excuse that fossil fuel extraction should be prevented because it won't lower prices NOW. Less demand will lower prices but increased production won't? Since when does government reject strategies because the results aren't immediate? There are at least 30 billion barrels of oil we could extract in the US that would not endanger environment. That is the bridge to alternative energy. Meanwhile hydro power threatens salmon in the north west.

Well, I don't wish to go astray. Now Obama thinks "politics" threatens economic strategies....LOL
Such is the rhetoric of our new Democratic salesman. Of course Wright was right about some observations.

I've been for Biden since this whole campaign started way back when. If the object is to put someone in the VP spot that you would be equally happy with in the top slot, then I have to dance with the one who brung me and that is Joe Biden.

it might go a long way towards insult dampening if folks were to just mostly ignore people they know they dont get along with and dont really want to talk with......and vicey versa. just like in bars......

and.......it's fair.

Max

Until today there was no individual right to own a gun in the constitution. Now there is.

Jack

to whom did the "right to keep and bear arms" apply?

MSNBC has now done two solid days of "Bill Clinton is pissed and being petty" based on a perfectly nice single sentence from Pres. Clinton saying he would support Sen. Obama.

They just can't give up slapping around the Clintons.

jamie......that's because they weren't quite able to get the wooden stake into their hearts.........

to them, a live clinton is a dangerous clinton......and the clintons live on.......watching........they're good at watching.......

Jamie

And just think what it is going to be like later in the summer when nothing is truly going on. It has been an interesting 2 days with the scotus but it would take brains to understand most of it.
Reminds me
Pogo
How does the Exxon decision affect your business?

Jack

nick.......i'll ignore that.........

"We won't forgive either"

lol

I take that as a "guilty as charged" plea.

Jack

Oh, I think if you read the history of the subject you will find various rulings. What appears activist is the trend away from understanding that such a right is intrinsic to the original intent of the Second Admendment.

http://stubbornfacts.us/domestic_policy/civil_liberties/an_individual_right

The basis of today's ruling is far less activist that Roe v Wade. To understand orginal intent, read the Constitutions of the thirteen colonial States and that property owners were considered natural elements of local militias. The use of guns in self defense was so ubiqitous, our Founders would be amazed. It is a rather long legal story, but to say that there was no court ruling that advocated an individual right to own a gun is wrong. What became the trend over the last one hundred years was an emphasis on the militia component, but again perhaps people can google the long history of court rulings going back to the founding and decide how our Founders clearly intended the right to bare arms individual. I have brought this up with experts and was directed to how the wording of the Second was consistent with other documents. Google, it is out there....

Even Franklin's wife loaded her rifle as mobs threatened her home. The idea of an individual not having a right to defend ones property and life with a gun is not in the early historical record. As I said, government and states have the right to regulate. What we should be concerned with is Congress producing a new Freedom of Press Bill that gives the people's rights to an elite Press.

Almost too true to be funny. :

http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-walt-babyboomers-blurb,0,1036393.blurb

but actually i dont think there's any rules yet in the AHPC.........unless it's that one rule about not making up any rules.......and that second rule about ignoring the first rule......and it gets more complicated after that.....

Harry Belafonte did Man smart woman smarter but it is an old calypso song so there may be one even earlier than the 1950s

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/07-290.pdf

The ruling

And here's some flip flopping by Obama worth noting...

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/tony-rezko-and-obamas-shifting-positions-on-iraq/

Funny about the Second. Activism pulled the people right way from the people. Scotus setting the record straight is activist. Come on guys, anyone here really think our Founders didn't imagine the right to bare arms an essential ingrediant of self defense in their day?

As far as the Freedom of Press Bill and I would argue the Fairness Doctrine the Left would love to ressurect, where is Craig on these?

You can keep the gun step away from the bottled water

Government ban on bottled water?
By WINK News

MIAMI - It's an expensive habit but is the world ready to pitch bottled water for tap?

At the U.S. conference of Mayors in Miami leaders called on local governments to stop spending tax payer dollars on bottled water for city functions and employees.
http://www.winknews.com/news/local/21576919.html

In Ohio while there is a right to carry a gun law, almost every public establishment has put up signs saying leave the gun outsidel

If you haven't seen this ... Political speak via a Monty Python like commedian

The Front Fell Off

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcU4t6zRAKg

Max start here.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment02/

Remember the constitutions is only what the scotus says it is, not what knotheads like thee and me may wish.

Jack

KGC, a basic responsibility of local government is the provision of safe (and hopefully palatable) drinking water. It flies in the face of logic having government sending the implicit message that their water is good enough for you, but not for us.

People are generally better mannered when they think the folks around them might be packing iron.

norman Span wrote the song. The Grateful Dead had a successful cover of the song but the original hit was Belafonte.

In the same vein, he did "mama Look a Boo Boo"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJReDGaPkNM

Friday Senator Barack Obama personally apologized to the two Muslim women who were moved out of camera view at one of his rallies.

Muslim Congressman Keith Ellison orchestrated the apology, and scolded Barack Obama over the incident. Ellison confronted Obama at a Congressional Black Caucus meeting. And according to multiple sources, the exchange became so heated that the CBC chairwoman had to intervene.

"..if folks were to just mostly ignore people they know they dont get along with and dont really want to talk with......and vicey versa. just like in bars......" and.......it's fair.
Posted by: sturgeone | June 26, 2008 2:36 PM

Sturge, love your idea!
We'll just pretend we're in a bar here, then we won't need that 'happy hour' truck some of us were talking about yesterday.

kgc

The plastic bottles are probably doing more damage than the guns.

"Early in the campaign year, Obama used one of the oldest racial stereotypes in a speech to black South Carolina state legislators: "In Chicago, sometimes when I talk to the black chambers of commerce, I say, 'You know what would be a good economic development plan for our community would be if we make sure folks weren't throwing their garbage out of their cars.' "

Then, the day before the Texas primary, he let loose again, in a predominantly black venue: "Y'all have Popeyes out in Beaumont? I know some of y'all, you got that cold Popeyes out for breakfast. I know. That's why y'all laughing. ... You can't do that. Children have to have proper nutrition. That affects also how they study, how they learn in school."

How would people respond if Sen. John McCain threw out stereotypes like these?

Then there's Obama's disgraceful treatment of Muslim Americans. He's already had to apologize after his campaign told two Muslim-American women wearing headscarves that they couldn't stand within camera range at an Obama rally in Michigan.

But he hasn't apologized yet for telling Rep. Keith Ellison, the Muslim-American congressman from Minnesota, that he couldn't speak for Obama at a mosque. Obama's been to many a church and synagogue on the campaign trail, but he has studiously avoided mosques."

Kevin Alexander Gray is a writer and activist living in South Carolina. He managed the 1988 presidential campaign of Jesse Jackson in the state. His forthcoming books are "Waiting for Lightning to Strike: The Fundamentals of Black Politics" and "The Decline of Black Politics: From Malcolm X to Barack Obama." Gray wrote this for Progressive Media Project, a source of commentary on domestic and international issues. It is affiliated with The Progressive Magazine.

http://www.bnd.com/285/story/379802.html

"Patsi, Hope your son's air conditioner is working it's supposed to get to 95 and muggy here in D.C."

Should be cool enough. He lucked into a nifty row house a few blocks from the Capitol.

How would the following rate with the AHPC?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Op6I6-bRvc&feature=related

the full monty on "what have the romans done for us?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaE3EaQte78

politicians prefer un-armed peasants........

My friend is a cop in Ohio. He used to do projecting (security) for some of the bars there. They were only allowed to patrol the outside of the bars. I believe in Cleveland they allow officers to patrol the inside of a bar. My friend said that was just asking for trouble. Allowing armed officers to walk around the inside of a bar.

Armed. unhappy drivers already upset with gas prices cannot be a good thing.

And, Patsi, have a whole crowd cheering you on!

What we see is a trend by Democrats to promote laws and decisions that stray from the Constitution. This is clearly activist: trying to change society by an end run around orignal intent. Be brave enough to advocate new Admendments, not twist the meaning of the Constitution.

The Press Bill, The Fariness Doctrine, Total gun bans, new privacy laws based on faulty Constitutional reasoning, even the absurd notion that terrorists be given the same rights as Americans or that illegals be given the same welfare protections -all erode original intent. But no, the Left just sees Bush as the great perverter of the sacred Consitution. The Commerce Clause and other activist tools represent a long history of perversion.

I am in favor of much of Liberal intent, but getting to that social reconstruction via crooked application of flase Constitutional intent is wrong because it erodes the very structure of our delicate experiment.

Given the fact that Obama once pawned himself off as a Constitutional professor, his spins on almost every Constitutional topic he has waxed about is disturbing.

Go google it.. Obama-

Unitary Executive

Healthcare for illegals

Representation for terrorists

Total gun ban

FISA

Affirmative Action

Drivers Licenses and back ground checks for illegals and even legal immigration applicants

Campaign Finance

The Constitutionality of redistribution of wealth on the scale Obama proposes

The Constitutionality of privacy regarding intelligence gathering of data on suspected terrorist organizations

When you examine the stands, you find neither a centrist nor a candidate that seeks orginalist intent v activism, but rather to codify ideological principles not enshrined in the Constitution.....

Regarding yesterday's shooting in Kentucky: We are not allowed to use our cellphones while working and we have to wear safety glasses where I work. I've never heard of anyone getting killed over something as dumb as that at work. I remember one time we had some joker at work who wore sunglasses all the time at work and he tried to pass them off as prescription sunglasses. But , this same guy also got mono after he got his tongue pierced. Needless to say , he got fired.

"For these reasons, I conclude that the District’s measure is a proportionate, not a disproportionate, response to the compelling concerns that led the District to adopt it."

Tom, you and Breyer see eye to eye on this issue.

Posted by: pogo | June 26, 2008 12:58 PM

Cool, Stephen Breyer is my hero (well at least today he is!).

"He who filters your good name, steals trash." -Stan Laurel

"If you had a face like mine, you'd punch me right in the nose. And I'm just the guy who could do it, too!" -Stan Laurel

"If I had any sense, I'd walk out on you!" -Stan to Ollie

"Well, it's a good thing you haven't any sense!" -Ollie to Stan

"It certainly is!" -Stan to Ollie

Patsi,

If I remember that particular insult it was psycho bitch followed by days of addressing you as PB

See we don't forget either.

“Men forget but never forgive. Women forgive but never forget.”,

H H Munro

I like Sen Biden tremendously, but Mr Obama needs Gen Clark's skill set for this particular mission. Posted by: Flatus
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-c.cgi#comment-107373

Flatus,
What you said makes a lot of sense to me. I've always admired Gen. Clark and thought he'd make a very attractive candidate (for Hillary if she had gotten the nomination, or Obama now). And for the reasons you point out in your post, it sounds like he could bring a lot of experience and characteristics needed to be a very good VP too.

pass the saki

"Armed. unhappy drivers already upset with gas prices cannot be a good thing."

As Mr. Scrooge said,

"If they are going to die, they should get on with it and decrease the surplus population."

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/nathan-burchfiel/2008/06/10/abc-predicts-suicide-rates-will-rise-just-great-depression

It's not the high gas prices, it's the other drivers that piss me off. LOL!

it might go a long way towards insult dampening if folks were to just mostly ignore people they know they dont get along with and dont really want to talk with......and vicey versa. just like in bars......

and.......it's fair.
Posted by: sturgeone | June 26, 2008 2:36 PM

AMEN to that! The argument over name spelling is just a waste of space and gets people's dander up over something that isn't relevant to the myriad of REAL issues are discussing here.

good story by HH Munro......."the open window".

It's not the high gas prices, it's the other drivers that piss me off. LOL! Posted by: Corey

Yeah, but Corey. It costs you so much more now to allow them to do it.

As I said Jack, Miller merely represented a turning point that then focused on the militia component. Up to then, there were rulings (and State rulings there after) that up held the individualist notion. I am claiming activisim at the turn of the century sought to curb the people's rights. Unions etc represented a threat. And where do you get that the Second doesn't protect the people's rights against ANY government, including the State they live in? When you understand that orginalist notion, you see the specific focus on militias is rather silly.

Anyway, thanks for the link, I go there often...

Feel free to challenge the crew at Stubborn Facts. They can cite a long legal history your link didn't really flush out..

In Ohio while there is a right to carry a gun law, almost every public establishment has put up signs saying leave the gun outsidel

Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | June 26, 2008 3:07 PM

When I was back in the states a year ago and visited the Mall of America, I was shocked to see warning signs at the entrances about guns not being allowed in the shopping mall under a certain statute. I know I've been gone 10 years, but I remember growing up and going to shopping malls and never even conceiving of the idea that "gun toting" people would be all around the place. This was a time when there was a greater sense of civility than what we often see today. People were NICER to one another. I just was floored when I saw the warning signs about guns in the shopping mall. What the hell has the USA come to with this lust for weapons??

Waddabout my right to keep and bear nukes?

Not just for sporting purposes, but also as a check on those power-hungry gummint goons who might want to read my emails w/o a warrant.

If you don't support my right to pack Abombs, when I am shopping at Goody's, you are squishy soft on the 2d Amendment, and a threat to Our Nation's Freedom.

Chloe, I'm out of cash how about buying me a drink?
Posted by: Nick | June 26, 2008 3:27 PM

You got it Nick.
I'll put it on my credit card.

Waddabout my right to keep and bear nukes?

Do you really think using such an extreme example or comparison helps get across your point.?

Sturgeon

Would you like your saki served sir in a smal saki cup, a cocktail glass or a larger fruit jar?

julie

"Patsi, Hope your son's air conditioner is working it's supposed to get to 95 and muggy here in D.C."

Should be cool enough. He lucked into a nifty row house a few blocks from the Capitol.

Posted by: Patsi | June 26, 2008 3:26 PM

I want the extreme heat here. I have over purchased beer, soft drinks and bottled water for the summer heat wave which, so far, is alluding us. Plus my shop is air-conditioned !!!

Ok I don't REALLY want the heat wave, I just want more sales.

Oh and it looks like liquor, wine and beer will be forbidden in gas stations as of next year in Belgium. Fine with me, even though I make a big profit on those products. I was pretty shocked to see that I could sell this stuff. THey are just now putting a limit of 16 years or older for beers and 18 and older for the hard stuff. Until December 2004 there wasn't a minimum age limit for buying cigarettes. Now it is 16 but the law says that you only have to ask if you have doubts that the person is not 16. I tried to ask everyone at first, but it got so feisty that I stopped. Unless it is so totally obvious that someone is under 16, I just have "no doubts' anymore. The nasty photos on our cigarette packages may reduce desire to smoke... we'll see!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/biden-and-clark-in-vp-fight.html#comment-107396

Thank you, Craig! I love when something posted here makes me laugh out loud!

ET, once when I was working at BP a five year old boy tried to buy cigarettes. I could barely see him over the top of the counter.

Patsi,

If I remember that particular insult it was psycho bitch followed by days of addressing you as PB

See we don't forget either.

Posted by: Jamie | June 26, 2008 3:39 PM

Ok, I'll bite... what's this about? The soap opera fan in me is intrigued.

The Second does is not a right to bare nukes. Nor does the right do way with government regulation of firearms. The statment by xrepublican is just plain dumbass.

And the problem with Miller ruling is that had Miller been packing what the local milita was, the court would have ruled FOR HIM. What makes this even a more pathetic ruling is that the court seemed unaware that the military and militias did use sawed off shot guns. Funny what a central place Miller therefore stands over at case law. And yes, Jack this was a turning point. Perhaps you should have reserved your activist comments to this intelligent ruling.

Xrepublican, mock on, let the Left embrace you.....

ET, once when I was working at BP a five year old boy tried to buy cigarettes. I could barely see him over the top of the counter.

Posted by: jeejee | June 26, 2008 4:03 PM

Isn't is horrible to work in a gas station? You know today this bulgarian semi truck came in to tank. We are not allowed to ask for payment in advance. When they were done, they owned me €946.00 . I get less than 1 cent a litre. If that truck would have driven away without paying, I would have received my commission of €6.40 or whatever, but the €946.00 would have been out of my bank account that night ! I am responsible.. I've been having heated discussions with the company and I've just decided to day that any big trucks or vehicles from people I don't know, will have to pay FIRST. The company says I can't do that so I told them to put that in writing and make it clear that they are then responsible... They refused, and therefore, I do it anyway.

I will be very happy to get OUT of a franchise system.

Chloe,

It should get the point across to those 2d Amendment extremists who misunderstand the 2d Amendment to mean an inalienable right to keep and bear FIREARMS.

However, if you insist on less extreme exampla. how about bazookas, rpgs, and cluster bombs?

ET, where does Belgium stand re the 2d Amendment? Take my gas, fool, take my gas!!!

xrepublican

I should be able to own any weapon my government has.
So yes, one nuke please.

Jack

ET, they actually had to pass a law here making it illegal for people to drive off. Isn't that crazy, they could arrest you for stealing a candy bar at Wal-mart, but not for driving off with a tank full of gas.

I had a man drive off once without paying, I was waiting on a customer & couldn't stop him, but I did write down his description & plate number. We left it hanging in the window above the register. A couple months later, he tried it again, this time my boss was working. She grabbed her gun, got out the door & to his car before he could pull out into traffic. His window was open, & she got him by the collar, & said, "I believe you owe me some money." She got what he owed her for that day, & also the previous time, and he never came back.

I think xrepublican has a good point though. Where do we draw the line with the right to "bear arms"? Is it a "sky's the limit" approach?

Personally I think the manufacturing of guns in this country has grown unabated and not controlled in anyway. We have learned to fear all that is around us and it makes us want to be able to protect ourselves. Remember "Fahrenheit 911" when Michael Moore crossed over from Detroit Michigan to Canada and he was able to open people's front doors because they weren't locked. There wasn't the FEAR we have in the states. I remember when we didn't lock our doors. Hell, we almost never took the keys out of the car Amazing. I know not everything was "good" in the "good 'ole days", but it was certainly a more communal and caring time.

So is our lust for guns based on fear? Or is it based on something totally unrelated? And if we want the absolute right to be armed, where is the line drawn???

if you insist on less extreme exampla. how about bazookas, rpgs, and cluster bombs? Posted by: xrepublican

I never 'insist' on anything. Just asking.

Jack, I was eagerly looking forward to a movie the SciFi channel was advertising a couple weeks ago - NYC, Tornado Terror! but I missed it. I think it was pre-empted. Too bad. I was hoping to see MSNBC studios get blown away.

Maxtrue,

I presume that you use 'dumbass' as an ad hominem attack against me, thinking that you can fool the readers and avoid speaking to the issue.

Your gambit fails.

Please, explain if you can, just how the 2d Amendment evades the topic of nukes or other explosive devices.

ET, the Court's decision specifically made the point that it was NOT an absolute right under all conditions just as Freedom of Speech is not an absolute right.

ET, they actually had to pass a law here making it illegal for people to drive off. Isn't that crazy, they could arrest you for stealing a candy bar at Wal-mart, but not for driving off with a tank full of gas.

I had a man drive off once without paying, I was waiting on a customer & couldn't stop him, but I did write down his description & plate number. We left it hanging in the window above the register. A couple months later, he tried it again, this time my boss was working. She grabbed her gun, got out the door & to his car before he could pull out into traffic. His window was open, & she got him by the collar, & said, "I believe you owe me some money." She got what he owed her for that day, & also the previous time, and he never came back.

Posted by: jeejee | June 26, 2008 4:19 PM

OMG don't even get me started on THIS! If we hang up a sign with a license plate drive off, the police come in and tell us we are breaking the privacy laws! Belgium is like a "six flags amusement park" for criminals. A right wing political party, the Vlaams Belang, started filming teenagers who were smashing in car windows and the like (and yes most were morrocan, turkish or russian youth) but again, it was determined that not only were they racist, but they were invading the privacy of the teenagers doing the damage.

Chloe,

Thanks.

Jack,

I'm sorry we are all out of nukes, would you like a raincheck?

jeejee

It is attitudes like yours that cost Rudy Giuliani the election.
LOL
Jack

what about the right to keep and nuke bears?

I don't lust for guns...LOL!

Flatus we don't have the right to bear arms in Belgium, except with some very strict licensing and psychological profiling and the like. I have one customer who dresses up as a confederate soldier and they have gun shooting events at some location away from the general public. This is permitted, but beyond that I don't know. There are definitely illegal guns in Belgium and they are definitely being imported by legal and illegal immigrants and/or criminals. I think one of th problems here is that all the EU countries, except England, have removed the checkpoint borders from country to country within the member states. without that control, all someone has to do is get into Spain or Poland and they are IN... It's a a screwy situation especially given the fact that Europe is apparently hosting thousands of Al Qaeda sympathizing muslims within the borders but the countries aren't even working together to find a common approach to handle the problem.

Time for bed.

Is Rudy even in New York these days, seems like he's dropped off the face of the earth. My mom always said, when the kids get quiet & disappear, it's time to look for them, because they're up to something.

Glad to see you follow this through Jack.
"II'm sorry we are all out of nukes, would you like a raincheck?"

jee jee about that situation with your boss and having a gun. If someone comes in and demands my money and I draw a gun or attack him, he becomes the victim and I become the criminal. Absolutely a fact! I can only defend myself if he draws a gun on me or does something to endanger my life. Apparently I have to wait until it's clear that my life is in danger before I can respond.

Speaking of all this gun talk...

Craig, you should make a field trip to this place. I'm sure you and Keith could do an edition of Countdown from here. He absolutely loves to show the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6-Lvm2QPDg

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/25356940#25356940

The largest weapons manufacturer in South Carolina is FN (Fabrique National), a Belgian company. They specialize in high-end machine guns and assault weapons. Go figure.

Granny shooting machine gun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--K3X6rptE4

EuroTom,

Nothing that occurs in a public palce can be defined as private.

Not only do the Belgians defy logic, they break the Laws of Diction.

I never thought of Belgium as a dangerous place before, who knew. And confederate soldiers, that's just crazy. They don't even do their little civil war reenactment here anymore. Now if we could just do something about those pesky ladies of the DAR, maybe we could see some real progress.

Craig,

I think now is an appropriate time to explain why your state of Florida is the National Leader in the category of female teachers having sex with their students.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/25392687#25392687

Nice to see we have some cougars prowling the jailbait too...lol

Flatus, the general attitude by Europeans toward Americans is that we are a bunch of fanatical gun lusters. They do not understand it. However, most Europeans also admire America and its people to a great extent. Belgium is particularly fond of America (slightly diminished since idiot moved to the White House). The Belgians remember that Herbert Hoover began an emergency food drive for the country at a point when the Belgians had almost nothing to eat. They are also grateful that the American soldiers came and saved Belgium during both world wars.

I guess I would say they thing of us with a lot of admiration and also a bit of disgust.

Thats my take. I gotta go to sleep. 8 hours from now I gotta open again.

"Is Rudy even in New York these days" Jeejee

Ru-dy! Ru-dy! Ru-dy!
OK, so maybe he wouldn't make a great president, and maybe he wasn't really the mayor he's cracked up to be, but here in Salon's New York office we love Rudy Giuliani. Why? Because the man is just fun to cover. Clearly, we're not the only ones who enjoy Giuliani -- and, frankly, miss him. From the looks of it, it appears that some Democrats are glad he's back on the national scene too, even if it does mean he's attacking Barack Obama.
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/06/18/rudy/

Jeejee,
This site has a clip of Rudy talking on MSNBC (I think last Wednesday). He's giving lots of opinions.

Bear

That looks like a lot of fun. But it is Oklahoma so what else is there to do besides blow things up.

Jack

Nite, ET.

"So is our lust for guns based on fear? Or is it based on something totally unrelated? And if we want the absolute right to be armed, where is the line drawn???
"

ET, I think it is the constant "News". People forget that news is news because it is rare. If you look at the actual incidence of violence in the majority of places in the country as a percentage of the population, it barely exists. If you remove drugs and alcohol from the equation, it drops to darn near nothing.

If you live in an area with a high incidence of gang activity, drug and alcohol use, high unemployment producing severe economic stress and over crowded conditions, well keep that gun close because the odds against you just shot through the roof.

If you live in a normal suburb, you are in much greater danger from a car accident.

The trouble with "NEWS" is that it feeds on itself. Once people start believing that certain behaviors (school shootings by copy cats after one nut case) are likely or acceptable, they become more common and the spiral keeps increasing unless something steps in to break the cycle.

A national power failure would probably reduce crime more than new hires at the police department.

The attacks on President Clinton this week are just as offensive as the ones launched by the Senator O and his campaign through the process.

If Bill is out there, he is hogging the limelight..If he is not out there, he is being petty, etc..

I also find it interesting that there is a great need to choose a VP candidate who will make up for Senator O's insufficiencies.

Why don't we just nominate someone who is qualified in the first place..

Jamie re your 4:44 PM. You've got all that right. Can't add anything except kudos. Well said!

Oops, I didn't mean DAR, I meant DCW, daughters of confederate widows.

My boss could have kicked that man's ass without the gun, so she might have gotten in trouble for using excessive force anywhere else.

In complexity theory, BPP is the class of decision problems solvable by a probabilistic Turing machine in polynomial time, with an error probability of at most 1/3 for all instances. The abbreviation BPP refers to Bounded-error, Probabilistic, Polynomial time.

BPP algorithm (1 run)
Answer produced
Correct
answer YES NO
YES ≥2/3 ≤1/3
NO ≤1/3 ≥2/3
BPP algorithm (n runs)
Answer produced
Correct
answer YES NO
YES > 1-e-n/18 1-e-n/18
If a problem is in BPP, then there is an algorithm for it that is allowed to flip coins and make random decisions. It is guaranteed to run in polynomial time. On any given run of the algorithm, it has a probability of at most 1/3 of giving the wrong answer. That is true, whether the answer is YES or NO.

The choice of 1/3 in the definition is arbitrary. It can be any constant between 0 and 1/2 (exclusive) and the set BPP will be unchanged; however, this constant must be independent of the input. The idea is that there is a probability of error, but if the algorithm is run many times, the chance that the majority of the runs are wrong drops off exponentially as a consequence of the Chernoff bound [1]. This makes it possible to create a highly accurate algorithm by merely running the algorithm several times and taking a "majority vote" of the answers.

BPP is one of the largest practical classes of problems, meaning most problems of interest in BPP have efficient probabilistic algorithms that can be run quickly on real modern machines, by the method described above. For this reason it is of great practical interest which problems and classes of problems are inside BPP.

ok....I think i've got it now........

Mr. Fish,

were you visited by the ghost of Robert Heinlein?

Chloe, I don't watch that network anymore, I guess that's how I missed it. Wouldn't it be fun to get Rudy & Joe Biden together somewhere, or has that already happened?

I think it was the ghost of confusion present......

This decison has no effect on the regulated federal control of weapons. I am shocked so many people here are clueless. No, this decison doesn't mean you can own a tank or a Raptor. How silly. I wish people would inform themselves before spouting the partisan line. Because State civilians operate the State militias, the tyranny of the State can be addressed by the Federal government or the very "people" who make of the State militia. They could move to remove their governor should it ever get to that because they are in theory the instrument of the people. Collectively, the State militias represent a check on government and is why the deplyoment of US troops is rarely allowed on US soil in police or enforcement action.

I left a link above to Stubborn Facts where a lawyer or two can answer reasonable questions. So dumbass xrepublican, go there and ask an expert why your assumptions are silly. Your gambit fails because you fire off your rhetorical gun half-cocked and miss the target completely. Do you think SCOTUS was unleashing military weapons and nukes for home use?

Thank you Flatus, maybe you can explain this ruling doesn't permit stingers on every residence. Are Americans becoming dumber, or what? The hysterical xrepublican is a fine example of loonacy. Yep, Cluster bombs. As Jack's link points out "there has never been a definitive ruling" though most if not all colonial Constitutions stated the right to bare arms was unquestionably sacrocant. NY's Constituion was later changed. Was THIS activist? So the change moved away from original intent. Therefore one would have to repeal the 2nd Admendment to unseat what was an obvious and basic individual right in 1791. Abortion was permitted in all colonies in 1791 and only an Admendment could prohibit abortion at a federal level.

Now the Left screams such a Constitutional verdict will lead us to nukes in our garages. Oh the horror, the horror.

ET, LIberty is not subject to political correctness where one liberty is elevated (like my right to talk in private to OBL) and another liberty is lost (no, you can't own a gun for self-defense in your home). Yes, the Press elite can enjoy new Freedom of Press Rights, but no, you can't stop a local government taking your home and putting up a mall. Yes, a woman has a right to abort, but no, a man has no say in the decision to birth though he might be paying for the rest of his life. Yes, we can say what we want, but no, you can't print a cartoon of Mohammad. Yes, all people are created equal, but no, there are quotas to fill based on race. Perhaps we should embrace Liberty and be careful that political correctness doesn't destroy liberty or fashion new ones that put us all at risk.

Just a thought...

Elmo's Got A Gun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-pBrD7TPjg

I thought BPP was an elarged prostate? Something men took Flomax to cure.

Thanks, Sturgeone,

Next time it comes up at the bar, we'll all be able to WOW them the way you've WOWed us.

May I quote you?

Enlarged prostate , I mean.

jeejee
I don't watch that network anymore either.
I just watched the little clip on that site, but was unaware when it happened. I thought he did a good job on that interview, and so did Joe. I do like Joe Scarborough.

dumbass me i was over there googling the hell out of bpp.......lol

Klink joke from the other night after he thought Hogan was passed out drunk: "Typical American....can't drink , can't finish wars they started"

i'll have to check with the chairman to see if auto ad hominem is permissible...........

I'm not a big fan of guns, don't have one, don't want one.

But given the bunch of idiots running the country today, the trigger-happy VP & his BFF's the Blackwater group building "training" camps in peoples backyards, I think it would be a bad idea to outlaw them completely.

ET - what's with this Belgian company Inbev trying to buy Anheuser-Busch? It's sounds as if they're gonna get it, and I cringe for St Louis if they do. AB is more than just a company for StL. I know Inbev wants to be the world's biggest, but that can't be necessary. I hate this kind of thing.

An older lady in front of me on the sidewalk was toting a mighty large handbag for someone her size.

Posted by: Craig Crawford

LOL. You've gotta watch out! : )

"Isn't is horrible to work in a gas station? "

Tom, my dad owned a gas station through most of the 1960s, and I'm happy to say nobody ever drove off. Of course, those were the days....

His purchase of the station was strictly to have a business with an office where he could play poker, smoke cigars and drink whisky on Saturday nights with his cowboy pals. (We were a dry county.)

So when the station came up for sale, he bought it, then hired one manager and a bunch of high school boys....and they were off to the races. It turned out to be a great investment, even though -- or maybe because -- he never took it seriously.

maureen dowd's thought process finally explained and charted out:

http://www.236.com/news/2008/06/24/though_process_flowchart_maure_7327.php

Today I am more concerned about the guy with the propane tank then the one with a gun. It's very hazy and smokey because of all the fires east and north of here and it was unnerving to see a fire truck parked at the end of the road...just in case. Fire season just started. It's going to be a very bad year.

There are no natural gas lines here, we all have propane bombs attached to our houses. In the olden days it was a cheaper and better solution but I'm thinking about switching out my remaining gas appliances and I am getting an on demand water heater.

"She grabbed her gun, got out the door & to his car before he could pull out into traffic."

Hilarious, jeejee!

The little BP where I worked has been closed for some time now, since 2004, & yesterday they were digging out the gas tanks. George W. Bush strikes again.

If you are not already a registered organ donor, you might want to meet Bethany

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2008/06/24/facebook-tot-with-30-000-friends-and-a-year-to-live-89520-20619038/

Well, Truemax,

Dumbass, yourself. I asked a simple Scalia-esque question and have not recieved a succinct and coherent answer. Cobbling together a few disparate facts, connected by nasty epithets, is not the same as propounding a legal argument. And, you haven't. If you knew anything about the law, you would at least know that.

Btw, the militias (NGs and Reserves) were all Nationalized under the Reagan Administration, so not even all of your 'facts' are correct.

Once you have touted yourself as the expert, and made yourself odious through the use of perjoratives, it is no longer enough to merely say there are boundaries to rights, or that the right to keep and bear cluster bombs is debatable, or to refer people to sources that may or may not be questionable. So, Mr. Rude Expert, what are those boundaries, and what is it that removes the Abomb from the scope and reach of the 2d Amendment?

Shoot him in his toodles! ROFL, Jack!

"Dumbass, yourself. I asked a simple Scalia-esque question and have not recieved a succinct and coherent answer." Posted by: xrepublican

I take back that .'peas in a pod remark'.
I think they are the SAME person.

Hey Craig,

I suggest you load this song into your Ipod so you stay alert walking the D.C. streets...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdAeRApwPvY&feature=related

http://www.lyrics007.com/Steel%20Pulse%20Lyrics/Bodyguard%20Lyrics.html

Hey folks...

So I get to the 18th tee sitting on an 83, meaning all I have to do is double-bogey or better on the last hole to break 90. And of course I triple-bogeyed for a 90 on the nose. Still had a fun time though.

Looks like things have been interesting here. Craig, I didn't sign up for continuing service as an "insult referee." You couldn't pay me enough to do that job.

If you made it "Insult Umpire" at least you'd get a mask and a big padded shield..........

.Dangerous objects of the day

Guns and propane

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW_K3cnXxW4

Jack

Nick,

'Secure in their persons' means at the surface of the epidermis and beneath. It has nothing to do with acts committed in a public place, and if it did, infringing on the right to make videos of malfeasors would be protected. The 4th Amendment rights to security of personal effects, records, and one's person have been so eroded by the republican-dominated SCOTUS since the days of R. Nixon, that there is not much left to debate about that. It is Big Government by edict. The court ruled that since peeing is the casting off of an object by the owner, the State is free to collect and analyze your pee. Same with hair falling from your head. IOW, if you value your 'privacy,' don't pee ands don't shed. I consider these to be extreme findings by an 'activist' court, however, it doesn't matter what I think. it only matters what the State can enforce.

It's kinda like that old joke:

"I didn't come here to be insulted!"

"Oh? Where do you usually go?"

now lard knows the true meaning of "tight as Dick's hatband......."
lol

Maxtrue,

I own guns.

Lardass,

I feel your pain,

A few years ago, I started triple, triple, triple, but then settled down to the point of playing holes 7-15 at +1. I had never broken 100 and I had a legit shot to break 85. 16 and 17 I doubled and on 18 I three putted for bogey to shoot 90. I played really well until I started thinking about my score...

I guess I'm out of here for today. I haven't been around lately, because I've been playing doctor to a bunch of sick kittens & their mommy for over a week. Now they are better, & I'm moving the survivors down to the house, so I have to go home & do some litter pan filling, etc. Have a good evening, all.

This is for LL:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3636435540043947603

FISA Coward

Glenn Greenwald writes:

On January 31 of this year, Keith Olbermann donned his most serious face and most indignant voice tone to rail against George Bush for supporting telecom immunity and revisions to FISA. In a 10-minute "Special Comment," the MSNBC star condemned Bush for wanting to "retroactively immunize corporate criminals[.]" . . . Olbermann added that telecom amnesty was a "shameless, breathless, literally textbook example of Fascism -- the merged efforts of government and corporations that answer to no government."

. . . . Now that Barack Obama supports a law that does the same thing -- and now that Obama justifies that support by claiming that this bill is necessary to keep us Safe from the Terrorists -- everything has changed. . . . There wasn't a syllable uttered about "immunizing corporate criminals" or "textbook examples of Fascism" or the Third Reich. There wasn't a word of rational criticism of the bill either. Instead, [Olbermann and Jon Alter] hailed Obama's bravery and strength -- as evidenced by his "standing up to the left" in order to support this important centrist FISA compromise .

Glenn Greenwald
Thursday June 26, 2008 07:22 EDT
Keith Olbermann: Then and now
(updated below)
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/06/26/olbermann/index.html

Bear, you been busy with the links today. nice stuff. think i'll get my AK47 from Why Not, Oklahoma. (and if they had counted all the votes in Florida, those teachers would behave).

So LL is abdicating? We'll leave the chair vacant. Lard Chancellor has things under control with that "probabilistic Turing machine in polynomial time." That's the ticket!

Nick,

to call Scalia an overstuffed windbag insults overstuffed windbags. Scalia is a dishonest overstuffed windbag. Yoo is just a war criminal.

Oddly, many people, especially in the MSM believe he is a jocular genius. So, when Scalia demands to know in Oral Argument just what the boundaries are, Nick's learned counsel had better have answers that derail Scalia and his NRA confederates.

I do not believe in a right to keep or bear arms except as a duly enroled member of the citizen militia. Certainly, the militias have the right to bear incediaries, explosives, cluster bombs, et alia. The big problem with that is we have no citizen militias anymore (except for survivalist and/or supremecist frei korps) since the Feds took over the maintenance and operation of all our NGs. So, does the right to carry rpgs now 'devolve' to individuals? Even if I am wrong, and there is an INDIVIDUAL right to keep and bear arms, what are the limits of the weaponry, if any? The DC ruling, keeping to narrow limits failed to answer the most important and vexatious questions.

Here's how it all went down. Over the weekend, Barack Obama announced that -- although not in favor of the idea of retroactive immunity for the shady corporatations that helped our own government spy on us -- he supports the FISA legislation that the Senate is about to pass that will magically make all the illegal wire-tapping that the White House did legal after all.

But it's all alright, because he super double-dog swears that, as president, he won't take advantage of the power to watch over all of America like Big Brother...

"Given the legitimate threats we face, providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise, but do so with a firm pledge that as president, I will carefully monitor the program," Obama said in a statement hours after the House approved the legislation 293-129.

Oh, well, he seems like a nice man. How can you mind surrendering your Constitutional rights to someone so charming.....
http://blog.indecision2008.com/2008/06/25/barack-obama-vs-barack-obama-supporters/

ok..FIRST.. sturge is right.. treat it like any other public gathering, you'll gravitate tward some and not others.. and stop hurling insults across the bar... just huddle in your groups...

My fave lib song is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8rFqaSCrCc

great song! now who wants to come see Al Green with me on Saturday??? hmmmm?

Hi everyone! I just got in from having a wonderful time at the Smithsonian Folklife Festival. Great fun for all the DC area Crawdads. The only people I saw with the guns were the security officers swarming around the Forrestal Building. They were all wearing their scary-looking tactical black.

Chloe -- That was me in the four-inch heels trotting through the airport after Uncle Ralphie. It really wasn't a conversation as much as a pronouncement of his that I need to find better shoes if I'm going to be going places in life. After that I just kept skittering alongside until we reached the car. Then he got into the back seat of the mid-sized sedan with shoulder-harnesses for all passengers (a requirement in his speaking contract) and fell asleep.

Another memorable moment with Ralph also had to do with shoes-- maybe he's got a fetish. Anyway, we were all hanging around the Nader empire offices in the Carnegie Building just off Dupont Circle in DC. Ralph ambles in and starts chatting about the problems with our disposable society. He starts talking about his footwear. He points out that th shoes he wears were purchased when he was in the Army, several decades before. They are regulation Army shoes -- plain black. He wears these with the black Army socks that he also purchased when he was in the Army. He said that as a young soldier he was so impressed with the quality of the shoes and socks that he made a point to make a bulk purchase of them at the and of his enlistment. He bought 12 pair of the shoes and 36 pair of the socks. Thirty years later (at the time of the conversation), he said he had gone through most of the socks, but he still had a few pairs of shoes left, which he keeps getting resoled, so he figured he would not have to buy shoes for the rest of his life.

Okay -- now I'm really off to a meeting. Drinks are on me until I get back!

xrepublican

I thought it interesting that Scalia kept referring to defending the home and possessing firearms in the home.

one thing for certain, this ain't over. Looks like a good fund raising tool for both parties. A bit like abortion that way.

Jack

PRINCETON, NJ -- Gallup Poll Daily tracking from June 23-25 finds Barack Obama and John McCain tied for the second straight day in national registered voter preferences for the fall election, each winning 44% of the vote.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/biden-and-clark-in-vp-fight.html#comment-107518

i'm just saying, when you don't count the votes, the teachers go wild

more guns and propane

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4G8np29pJ4

anybody who understands Obama's position on this gun ruling? we're talkin it tonight on Abrams. looks like he's for it AND against it

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CANDIDATES_GUNS?SITE=CONGRA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Jeez, I hope he didn't keep the same underwear that long. Something strange about Mr. Nader.

Lynn,

While he wasn't launching spittle at the camera with the same venom from the special comment, it's clear the KO was a bit annoyed at Obama's position on the bill. I think he was shocked that Alter was as supportive as he was.

With both Obama and McCain supporting the death penalty for the rape of a young child, I would be fascinated to hear their response in this case...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25393910

xrepublican, it was you who posted some absurd remarks about SCOTUS paving the way to nomeowners and nukes, yes? So don't avoid the causal process. I am sure if you asked a cogent question at Stubborn Facts, you would get a respectful and rational response.

I never touted myself as an expert. As a non expert even I can understand that the SCOTUS decision was neither activist nor opened up military and WMD arms to the public consumer. The national guard is composed of " local State citizens" and would hardly become a pawn in the State tyranny, our Founders imagined. That was point, so don't please don't over reach. There are checks a balances and the 2nd Admendement spoke of the people's right to resist ALL tyranny.

I hope you feel better having vented. Now if you want lawyerly answers to your questions rather than imitate your ide of some redneck nuke lover. ask them at Stubborn Facts. Your orginal comment was far more than asking a question and it doesn't take much to see your orginal intent. If you think the ruling I posted allows for you and me to keep nukes in our garage then have fun with that idea.

I'm glad you enjoy your firearms. My mentioning that I have none at the moment went towards clarifying that I am no gun lover per se, but understand the concept of the individual right to own them in 1791. Declaring such a right today is hardly activist, nor abandon's the government's right to reasoanbly regulate them while prohibiting the weapons you imagine are now fair game for the general public. Such a view is certainly borderline dumbass.

DId that register?

And my list of Obama's dubious positons regarding Constitutionality remains. He notated next to the answer written in as "yes" to a total gun ban as mentioned at Politico. FISA above by Lynn shows Obama's ultimate positions on everything are both sides. That way he is free to flip and flop whenever he pleases. Against NAFTA, pro free-trade. "tough diplomacy" is a real laugher. Will change the "criteria" of affirmitive action?...LOL The list goes on from drivers licenses to the general principle of mandating everything at the Federal level....

have fun with that.

Posted by: Bear | June 26, 2008 6:42 PM

Glenn Greenwald and I must get a different version on our teevees.

Lynn C: You seem extremely knowledgeable about the new FISA law. I have tried following all the changes, but confess I am now very confused. I understand the technical aspects (two former husbands were telephone switchmen) and do not consider the mere collection of data and computer analysis to be intrusive.
BUT, I have been unable to follow the changing guidelines for oversight. I have heard the FISA court, the Inspector General, Congress (God forbid) ... all I know for darn certain is that it cannot be the Executive Branch monitoring itself. Do you have a source for the language of the bill as currently put together?

Oh, and if you really want the answers to your questions, ask Simon at Stubborn Facts. He and others will explain just why your speculation is absurd. And while you are there please share your view of Scalia...LOL. Without much knowledge, I warn you, you'll leave with your underware over your head.

Craig

He basically articulated my position on gun control.

The right is there but there is some need for regulation.
In a rural area the regulation should and can be more lax. My main observation is the idiots are more spread out.
In an urban environment they are more concentrated. In some instances it seems like anybody with a rational thought has left, if they can. In those areas you just need more regulation. I like todays ruling it lets you keep a gun in your home. Most days IMO that is where it should stay. I know way too many people that carry a gun to increase the size of their dick. So I'm very leary of liberal CC permits.

My view of gun control changed a lot by moving from rural MO, with a 30-30 in the gun rack of my pickup, to urban eastside Kansas City. There needs to be a way to keep our gun rights while also getting guns off the street.

Jack

It is with legal gun owners. The criminals that have illegal guns probably don't vote anyway.

That is one of the problems with regulation of gun ownership, criminals deal in contraband and illegal activity all the time, banning gun ownership will not reduce their inclination to possess a firearm, most likely a handgun.

Mag, just look at Obama's past rhetoric about the unitary principle in the executive, his comments about executive self-monitoring.

Want to bet that what was wrong with Bush power, will be right about Obama power? Democrats have fallen behind in polling on energy and guns. Obama is still considered much weaker on national security. At this point Obama should be ahead. The Republicans haven't even unloaded on Obama. Meanwhile his weekly acts paint a disingenuos picture, Campaign Finance, FISA, death for child rapists, Iran, Pakistan, no drilling, let's move the DNC to Chicago........

Not very credible for such an honest, high road, out of the box candidate...LOL

Even his step brother says Obama was raised a Muslim. He loves Free trade. He ain't takin to no Ahmadinejad. It just keeps getting better like that new Great Seal of his. Fluff and rhetoric have their limits.

Split the ticket

Savethe Democrats from themselves

Maggisd

The Bill number is HR 6304

http://www.thomas.gov/

This site will let you pull up the wording of the bill.
There are 3 versions of Bill Number H.R.6304 for the 110th Congress
1 . FISA Amendments Act of 2008 (Engrossed as Agreed to or Passed by House)[H.R.6304.EH]
2 . FISA Amendments Act of 2008 (Introduced in House)[H.R.6304.IH]
3 . FISA Amendments Act of 2008 (Placed on Calendar in Senate)[H.R.6304.PCS]

One of my housemates in college was really into guns. He had sillouhette targets that he'd shot up plastered up in his room like posters. All that kind of stuff. He was showing me his .357 Magnum one day, and I told him that if he ever shot it off in our house, it might "protect" our home...but would probably then travel through four walls and across the alley and kill some little kid in the neighbor's house. It was a scary powerful gun.

Lynn,

I think he's being driven more by the hypocrisy of the McCain and his teflon coating that he's giving the BO more of a pass than he merits.

After seeing the Daily Kos dude on Countdown warning that the left's zeal for Obama's campaign would wain significantly were he to actually vote for this bill, I suspect that Obama will finesse himself out of the lead in this race.

Jack, I basically agree. I think there should be strong back ground checks. You simply cannot have the right to carry for everyone in NYC. You need secure storage for guns. The government does have the right to regulate and attmepts at total gun bans are doomed to failure.

Good points.

And of course for various reasons I mentioned, Miller was bad law for more than one reason.

Max: Doesn't really matter how I vote. I live in California. Unless something very strange happens, Obama will carry this state.

Right now I am more worried about Dictator Pelosi than anything else. First she wants Rahm Emmanuel to be appointed Senator in Obama's place. I have no problem with that, but suspect she's trying to rid herself of a meddlesome congressman, if you take my meaning.

Then, she proposes Chet Edwards for VP....a blatant move against the Blue Dogs. I say we need the Blue Dogs. I am no more prepared for a wild shift to the left than I was for the wild shift to the right that Newt Gingrich pulled off. I am, in fact, a raging moderate.

Maggisd,

Don't you need to effectively use power to be labeled a dictator? The best way to characterize the House under her speakership is that she couldn't pass gas with an all Boston Baked bean diet.

Frankly, I think there should be an idiot test Lard. Back in 1791, only white homeowning males could have guns without question. I would argue that orginalist intent did not mean EVERYONE. Based on that idea, perhaps only QUALIFIED people in full faculty of their brains should be allowed to own a gun. I've been saying essentially that about parenting for years......

Here's what the marvellous writer William T. Vollman said about his Sig Sauer P226 Pistol:

"In a sense, my Sig Sauer has never fully come to life, since I've never killed anyone with it. But it has offered me self-defense insurance over the years; and on past occasions, when in the pinchclaws of morbid depression, it seemed to me that I could FEEL the doom-rays of my guns even through the shielding of their massive box, chilling me in other rooms, behind thick walls, and at moments of particular sensitivity I thought to distinguish the Sig Sauer's own coldness and malignancy from the chills of the others. It is at such times that I almost did believe that everything is alive...and that the Sig Sauer sought to fulfill itself by luring me into self destruction."

Beautiful writing, that.

Bear, you're right, but Obama/Pelosi is sufficient. That is my whole point. A match with nothing to light meets gas with no flame. Bingo.

At least with McCain, you have divided government and certain degree of reflection. I am hearing more and more from Republican bloggers that they want Obama to set up a triumphant return in 2010 and 2012. I don't want to see the damage to America before then.

More Vollmann, on weapons in general:

"People who dislike weapons do so on the basis of their FUNCTION. Those who like them do so on the basis of either FUNCTION or FORM. I myself admire well-made weapons. I am no sadist, and therefore do not cherish the purpose for which weapons are crafted -- namely, to harm -- but it would be hypocritical to deny that the death and pain reified in a weapon, the power of it, invests it with glamor."

Hey Max...good seeing you pop up. You've been away for awhile.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/biden-and-clark-in-vp-fight.html#comment-107607

"The right is there but there is some need for regulation."

Jack, good summation there of Obama's stance, thanks. But here's my question: Does he support this particular DC ban or not? In all i've read from his camp today, that isn't directly answered.

Yeah Lard. Quite intense. One can imagine what kirk must of thought about his phaser.

"Committee of the Whole"...chilling as well and goes to part of what xrepublican brought up.

Max

Thankyou for the conversation.

Miller was bad in many ways, just intelectually for starters but it was the law of the land and many lower courts have used it in the last 80 years and it was based on several earlier decisions going back to just after the civilwar.

Jack

"I am, in fact, a raging moderate. "

Maggi -- I always considered myself a pragmatic liberal. But maybe that is actually a raging moderate....

Max,

The lust Republicans have for Obama is the same lust that they had about Clinton or that Democrats had for Reagan. Especially now, considering the amount of damage that Bush has done in the last 8 years, it's obvious that they can't all be fixed in 2 years.

Anyone expecting that is unfortunately rooted in a reality that doesn't exist.

Lard, I've been working...you know, that eseential money thing..LOL

I did what I could for HIllary and needed to give it a rest. Interesting turns in the world. I've been studying what's going on and have left politics alone a bit. Nothing so far unpredictable including Obama's hilarious pivot. That Great Seal and the DNC move to Chicago was brilliant.

Nope, I could get Colbert or Stewart to switch. Jon is short and grey. Colbert is a real character.

Glad to see you in good spirits. Still considering Obama/Pelosi? Careful, I saw an elephant on TV that can paint pictures. They're catching up to us Lard.

Lynn C: Thanks for the reference to Thomas.gov ... I had forgotten that site. And, for the explanation of the various pending versions and amendments. I've been trying to follow the ins and outs by listening to the debate, but I find myself increasingly frustrated with Congressional rhetoric -- they are either all liars or none of them understands what they're talking about in the least.
I'm also going to go to Sen Feinstein's website. I may not always agree with her, but I find she states the facts as she understands them quite clearly.

Max...I'm definitely starting to get with Obama now. Yes, I still believe Hillary was the best qualified presidential candidate to date that I would have been able to vote for (maybe tied with Gore). But I'm moving forward and hoping for the best. I think Obama's really good on his feet -- his "I won't be lectured..." response to McCain's criticism on national security stuff is just the right tone. The way he delivered it was almost JFK positioning McCain as the Nixon. I think that's the dynamic here. Nixon was probably personally more qualified to be president in 1960 -- but JFK had him beat on leadership and inspiration.

I know you disagree, so I'm not trying to start an argument. That's just how I see it shaking out.

Craig

I see the problem. I thought he agreed with the decision but that is not what his statement said.
BTW , I read it on Jim Geraghty's blog over on the National review web site and he linked to the msnbc website.
http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Mjk5Y2Y2MWY1MDJjYmFkMzM5NDEyMWFiNTAxMDczOTA=

lol
I read this "while it ruled that the D.C. gun ban went too far" and my mind saw this, "while the D.C. gun ban went too far"
Two very different statements

It does look like the Obama camp is trying to use each sides code words. Hoping they will do as I did and read only what they want to hear.

Jack

Jack

For clarification, I meant Hillary is the best qualified Democrat to run for president (or tied with Gore) since 1976, which was the first year I got to vote for president.

Speech of Sen Dianne Feinstein regarding the new FISA bill.
http://feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=NewsRoom.Speeches&ContentRecord_id=C609BFA5-0D97-0306-8AA4-F4CC2B2069E3

"couldn't get Colbert or Stewart"...sorry Lard

Bear you're right, but we know Americans have short memories. When crap happens it will be blamed on the Democrats. All the crap got blamed on the Republicans despite Clinton making a deal with the Russians to let them give Iran weapons and technology. When things get ugly like they did for Carter, everyone will turn and it will not be sufficient to blast Bush when Iraq is improving over all before Obama, the world is fairly united against Iran before Obama and Pakistan is sliding downward with moderate help despite Obama's predictions. People want more production of energy. High capital gains tax wil hurt more than help. You think Americans favor giving illegals universal healthcare? Obama has torn down Clinton and built a flowery expectation of hope and change. He will be hoisted by his own dubious petard.

Despite that, I do see your point, but Americans are getting dumber and at this point Bush is not to blame. Democrats have nominated a vaccuous talker over substance and reality based thinking....not that Bush was gold...LOL

To me it is swapping one extreme for another...sad and if you don't think an Obama Presidency is set to fall from day one, you aren't reading the tea leaves. We'll regard Carter with love compared to the mess Obama is walking into, much of his own creation.

Okay - so Obama backtracks again, this time on FISA.
Well, it sure is a good thing he has promised to mis-use it when he's president. Damn, I would have been scared if he hadn't promised that.

Now, if he's planning to be potus for life, we' re safer for a long time. Let's hope our kids and grandkids have such presidents.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, McCain might end up as president, but ya gotta have faith.

I think we need to start a tally of Obama's backtracks, and maybe even set a limit. Suggestions for backtrack number one?

Jack: I am surprised (not really) that neither candidate and no pundit has yet pointed out that this decision has put gun regulation into the same category as pornography. That is to say, each and every gun law will now be referred to the Courts for decision and interpretation. This, in my view, is inconsistent with the very idea of Federalism and local control regarded so favorably by Conservatives. We can look forward, I suppose, to years and years of legislation by the courts in this area.

Corey, Bear: Thanks for your moral support on the golf game. It really is a silly game. But I always make a few shots that are good enough to lure me back in to play again. Like having a mistress who drains your credit cards and harangues you endlessly, but always manages to whisper "I love you" into your ear at just the right time.

"Anyone expecting that is unfortunately rooted in a reality that doesn't exist."

And unfortunately, Bear, I think that's just what a lot of the hope and change crowd thinks will happen. Either that, or, like with Bush, he won't be held accountable in any way, shape or form.

Lard: Golf is not a silly game.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/biden-and-clark-in-vp-fight.html#comment-107632

yep whiskyjack, i still think Obama's gun-rights view is I'm for it principle, but not in practice. That used to be his position on the death penalty until that stunner the other day blasting the court for striking the death penalty in the child rape case.

i gotta say, intricate word parsing with Obama is not much different than with Bill Clinton. But that's often the sign of a winner

Lard you remind me of a former EST groupie, not to start an arguement. Since last we talked, Obama has produced an incredible flurry of retreats, gaffes, contradictions and hypocrisy. He annoys me more than than ever. He shouldn't be lectrued to after his utterly pathetic prediction and telgraphed strategy on Pakistan? His stand on extracting any of the 50 billion plus barrels of fuel in the US, the unified positions of EU and the US on Iran? Move the DNC to Chicago, reject public financing, advocate executing child rapists,........the list goes on. When given two extremes, try checks and balances. I don't for one minute pretend to forget what I know about Obama. He confirms it every day from the Great Seal to repackaging Michelle.

Well, I respect your habit Lard. I'll try to ne nice when I tell you "I told you so".

Maggisd

Thank you for posting the link to Senator Feinstein's speech. She makes a very strong argument on behalf of the telecos but Qwest did turn the government down on the basis of no warrents and the others should have gotten better legal advice.

Soldiers can't say they were following orders. Companies can't say they were patriots. Neither is an excuse for violating the law.

Maggs...the way I play it is. I'm totally capable of making any basic shot, and doing it well. But once the "mental" part of the game goes south...the whole game goes with it. You have to hold that "mental" part of the game closely and never take your eyes off of it. Guard it like it's wearing an orange jumpsuit. That's where my game breaks down. I haven't mastered that part of it.

But you already know all that, or can extrapolate, from reading my earlier posts.

The curious thing about McCain's attack, claiming Obama was running for Carter's second term, consider the following:

Carter was able to get the first meaningful peace agreement in the Middle East between the arabs and jews.

Carter had the prescience to create tax incentives to encourage people to move towards solar energy. Oddly enough this is one of the tax breaks that Reagan couldn't stomach and now, 30 years later, we are kicking ourselves for it.

He championed human rights and was the first to address discrimination against the GLBT community.

I think there are worse things to be in favor of...

Max...most definitely appreciated, and taken in the spirit in which it's meant.

Bottom line: I'm willing to spot Obama one Bay of Pigs fiasco, and meanwhile hope that he grows up in a hurry.

Thanks Craig, I was beginning to think I was the only one shocked by the Obama position on the child rape decision. And I can't wait for his parsing the Fairness Doctrine and the Freedon of the Press Bill....

Patsi: There are several things at work with Sen Obama that ensure it will be a very long time before he is held accountable for much of anything.
1) A very large number of his supporters are so young that they cannot relate to anything that happened before the 90s.
2) Another large number of his supporters are so thrilled to be voting for a man who is at once "down with the people" and part of the intellectual elite that they are prepared to discount any shortcomings. They know him, they recognize him, they relate to him and thus, they trust him.
3) The blogosphere feels the right to claim him as their creature. It will be a very long time before they turn on him...if they ever do.
My feeling has always been that it is not so much that I distrust or dislike Sen Obama but that I have little faith in those who surround him and promote him.

Lard, that is the bet all my centrist friends voting for Obama are making. Let's hope the "fallout" of Obama's Bay of Pigs is not much greater than Jack's, and that his learning curve is at least half of JFK. So beholden to Pelosi and those around him, under fire by a media not contrained as it was in Jack's day, I rather doubt Obama will dupicate JFK's Cuban Missile Crisis. And those around Obama are not RFK and others.

Actually the stakes may be far greater for Obama and the US.

We shall see...

Max...on that note, I'm going to go mix a Martwoni and throw a steak on the grill before the Martwoni turns into a Marthreeni.
See you all tomorrow. Fun night, as usual.

"i gotta say, intricate word parsing with Obama is not much different than with Bill Clinton. But that's often the sign of a winner"

True, Remember in the Ozarks and Arkansas , slick is an accolade not a slam. So he didn't earn the name Slick Willie for nothing. He was slick but then so is Obama.

Jack

LynnC: I don't necessarily agree with Sen Feinstein, but I generally am able to understand and follow what she is saying ... not always the case with Senate speak.
I have been having strong discussions with my friend, the attorney about this subject. My understanding is that National Security Letters are legal directives. But I have to look into this more.

"But I always make a few shots that are good enough to lure me back in to play again. Like having a mistress who drains your credit cards and harangues you endlessly, but always manages to whisper "I love you" into your ear at just the right time."

Lard! I can't wait to lay that line (pun intended) on a couple of golf nuts I know! (I'll give you credit.)

OK .... past time for tennis wrap up....also have to settle in and get ready to watch Craig on Abrams.

Child rape is certainly a non lethal crime that could merit the death penalty. He has 2 young daughters and I'm sure if someone did that to one of his kids, the rapist wouldn't be around long enough to be executed by the state...

Whether he made that decision through the Dukakis prism will be determined by whether or not the viewer is pro or anti Obama

Jon Stewart is hilarious tonight.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/biden-and-clark-in-vp-fight.html#comment-107637

Maggis

"put gun regulation into the same category as pornography."

Or worse like the right is doing abortion rights. just passing laws to get them challenged.
Hey better hire some more judges.

Jack

"My feeling has always been that it is not so much that I distrust or dislike Sen Obama but that I have little faith in those who surround him and promote him. "

That sums up my feelings as well. From the days when this thing turned quasi-religious I started getting Bush-chills. The O-team is pretty much the same as the Bush Bunch. It's almost a worship.

I have been interested this week -- had two different lunches, both with fairly prominent record biz men. One is a confirmed Obama supporter, but we were able to have a good conversation. He also was disturbed by the preacher-tone Obama took in the beginning, by the way. This particular friend watches little cable television and reads only email on the "net." So he was aghast at what I had to say about the sexist crap being flung.

Second guy: confirmed Hillary supporter and money contributer. Is sitting out the election now. The difference? He DOES read a lot on the net and pay attention to cable -- and he is FURIOUS.

So what happened? The rabid Obots.

oops left out part of a sentence

Or worse we could get both sides using tactics like the right is on abortion rights. just passing laws to get them challenged.
Hey better hire some more judges

Jack

Hey,

I think there are a lot of guys who will take major offense to taking away their guns and porn...you do that, lord know what they will do for fun...lol

Bear

Better legalize weed then.

No guns or porn, whats this country coming to.

........pry it out of my cold ............

Jack

Patsi,

You do realize that were Hillary the nominee, you could have had that same lunch with 2 other people who would have reacted identically except they would be decrying racism instead of sexism.

I can't wait until you have a chance to watch the Traces of the trade documentary. The director had an interesting perspective and opinion about reparations among other things and what struck me the most was how people feared the backlash or wondered why they were being taken to task for what their ancestors did. She wondered aloud what would have happened had the government, at some point in time, issued a meaningful apology for what had happened...

I bring it up because I saw in her movie, parallels to what this primary season looked like.

The one sad reality is how after this campaign, you would have the cores of 2 campaigns sitting around a table, waiting for the other to step up and admit fault, which we know would never happen...

Larry Sinclair discusses his National Press Club appearance. Also, what happened with law enforcement officers, in lock-up, and in court (DC and Delaware). This interview (38 min) was recorded last night.

http://rense.gsradio.net:8080/rense/special/rense_L_Sinclair_062508.mp3

"I think there are a lot of guys who will take major offense to taking away their guns and porn..."

Bear, I have a grand military-looking t-shirt that says: Repent & Reload.

Gordo, did you listen to the interview? Is it worth listening to since it's so long and who is the guy who did the interview?

xrepublican

If I can't have my own nuclear weapon how about an Antitank gun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-Ay5-AY0cs

I wanna blow something up, kaboom!

Ya know as a kid I loved fire crackers, then I learned to work with dynamite and firecrackers weren't as much fun.
Propane cannons are though. Go kaboom.

Jack
Jack

Ok, I gotta have this gun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe-QP8s1ZJc

It shoots a million rounds a minute.
Wonder how long it would take to shoot up $50 worth of ammo.

Jack

Obama's Response to the DC Gun Ban Decision
1. Obama votes against gun owners on almost every occasion that he can.
2. Obama was on the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation who fund numerous gun control organizations that acknowledge wishing to end firearm ownership in the U.S. While we are here, I would love to know why Barack would associate himself with an organization that pushed what he should have recognized as an unconstitutional agenda.

http://www.sportsmenforobama.org/content/view/71/

Obama's not gonna be like those Price Is Right contestants that looks to the audience for help before making his decisions , is he? "Yes!" No!" "Drew , I'm gonna be for and against the gun issue!"

Both of these fellas have good records and would be great compliments to an Obama ticket. I had thought that Obama would need to pick a domestic candidate to help him win states. But now with the new polling showing Obama so far ahead, a VP choice with foreign policy experience is much more likely. I don't think Clark would be a great choice. Everyone always loves the idea of a "military VP" but I don't see how useful it is. Biden though offers a very well balanced foreign policy basis. To bad though that he has no executive experience which I believe Obama desperately needs.

VP Prediction Markets: http://www.hubdub.com/m8150/Will_General_Wesley_Clark_be_Obamas_Vice_Presidential_Nominee

http://www.hubdub.com/m8965/Will_Joe_Biden_be_Obamas_Vice_Presidential_nominee

vadaryl ---------------------

This is the 9th interview Jeff Rense has done with Sinclair. It's interesting.

Guess who is Delaware Attorney General.

" can't wait until you have a chance to watch the Traces of the trade documentary."

I'm going to the PBS site now to see if it's available...damn I am SO pissed I missed that.

Bear -- the website is obvious, I guess.....

www.tracesofthetrade.org

Not for sale yet but soon. Also, and this is pretty interesting -- you can email the people from the family involved in the film, if you have thoughts or questions.

This did serve to remind me that years back I taped Africans in America, three full tapes: the A in A tape, then Revolution and Judgement Day. I'm going to be finished with this book in a couple of days, hopefully....and plan on re-watching that series.

After I do, if you want it, I'll be happy to send it to you. (It's VHS, though....not DVD...)

Oh, wow, Mr Obama gives Mrs Clinton a check for $2300 and thinks everything is fine now. He's living in some kind of dream world.

Jindal condemns Supreme Court, signs castration bill
Governor glad for new law to punish sex offenders on same day as 'atrocious ruling'

Louisiana Republican Gov. Bobby Jindal
Shortly after the U.S. Supreme Court announced it struck down the death penalty for child rape in his state, Louisiana Republican Gov. Bobby Jindal signed a bill authorizing castration of sexual offenders.

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=68042
.................

"Oh, wow, Mr Obama gives Mrs Clinton a check for $2300 and thinks everything is fine now."

Obviously Flatus that was symbolic. What would you be saying he hadn't wrote that check?

"Wonder how long it would take to shoot up $50 worth of ammo"

I don't think that would get up the barrel.

Obama: Change agent goes conventional
.....since securing the Democratic presidential nomination, when confronted with a series of thorny issues the Illinois senator has pursued a conspicuously conventional path, one that falls far short of his soaring rhetoric.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/11384.html

Craig is doing really well tonight.

Abrams is taking note of that possible tidal wave coming with the election if Sen. Obama doesn't mess up.

George Bush is totally killing McCain.

I am not surprised at anything Obama says since he reached the critical #.

Clinton supporters have always said that most important thing to do is support the candidate who can win. I have always agreed.

With his comments on the recent SC rulings, Obama is simply hogging the political middle ground and elbowing mccain to the far margin. Look for Obama to cover the spectrum from slightly center right to extreme left, leaving mccain only the 25% at the extreme right.

In other words, Obama is merely doing the job that Clinton people always said was most important.

I was an early Edwards supporter and it grieves me that many Clinton supporters have hurt feelings. I really wish I could heal that, but I can't. What I can do is support the guy who can win. The SC rulings and the blood-thirsty manias of the republican party since Dec. 2000 convince me that our nation and the world cannot afford to risk that mccain poses.

Goodnight.

That last line should read:
Our nation and the world cannot afford the risk that mccain poses.

Sorry, fingers and brain are too tired to cooperate.

G'nite, all

Max,Flatus
You guys make so much sense!! Its the perfect time to call the DNC out on there undemocratic practices and thankyou so much for doing it.Hopefully the DNC will find a way back to honor and trust!! Sen.Obama im waiting to be convinced............Deeds not just words please............

This may be the theme (and ending) for the Obama/Clinton road tour

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4WGp72peEM

A local Kansas CIty tv station posted a poll asking if people were in favor of the gun ruling by Scotus. 92% yes, 7 % no..
Alvin Brooks, One of the black leaders of the city heads a coalition on violence. He of course is speaking out against it. Kansas city does have a hefty use of violence.

julie

Time for the Carlin HBO retrospective.

Ok , now maybe these folks shouldn't own a gun.
Then again staying around these folks would test your Darwin skills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qRJzpQXb7c

Jack

what baring does that have on the story?

Was he naked?

Some more wanna be candidates for the darwin awards.

Setting fire to propane bottles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1TAfKIFC4U

Personally, I choose Biden over Gen. Clark, only because I think he fits in better with the rest of the "been around since god," change you can believe in, politicans standing behind prince O-bot. No misunderstanding... I like Joe Biden, I just don't think he represents change, consequently, he should fit into Obots crew just fine. Besides I don't want too see Clark or any other Hillary supporter get roughed up when Obot crashes and burns.

Oregon Democrat; 4:46 pm..... You said it best when you said," why supplement qualifications in a VP that should be in the Pres." I totally, totally agree.

Nick; 6:46 pm.... why should you be surprised at Obots flip-flopping on the gun issue, he never knows what he's agreeing to, unless someone has written it down for him to read.

Whskyjack;6:56 pm.... You have echoed my thoughts on gun control, as well, it should be a common sense issue - peppered with education and respect for the weapon and what damage could be done. But - look at society today and tell me which one of these selfish, rotton kids would have the self control and common sense to even qualify for a weapon.

Maxtrue ..... I also resent the comparisons to JFK, who broke my heart when he died. I think the closest we have come since JFK is "Slick Willie", and I feel so bad for him as in the msnbc haranging of the last couple of days - If they'd have called me a racist, I would have crossed the floor(Ind.) and told them to look elsewhere for their campaigners and NECESSARY help in prying her votes to his side.

Whatever you all might think of Ralph Nader because of past performance, etc., the man is intelligent and can answer questions at a town hall meeting or on TV without a teleprompter, or a speech.........

For years I drove a forklift with a huge propane tank right behind my back. Many times the hose connection leaked...I could smell gas, and I was driving right beside huge flame curtains on the front of heat treating furnaces.

After a while, if things were really busy, we'd forget safety and drive beside (and I mean within three feet of the flames) the furnaces. Nothing ever blew up. The gas is escaping away from the tank and if it would have ignited it would have just been a huge candle and not an explosion. However, the fire chief showed us movies of how sometimes things went horribly wrong, like a film of a huge propane bulk tank that blasted off its moorings and blew up and sailed through the air for 500 feet. So sometimes things do go haywire.

Good take on the "truth" comments by Charlie , on your Imus appearance. Exactly my sentiments.

Dexter

Propane is most dangerous in a closed building. unlike natural gas, it is heavier than air so a leak tends to pool in low spots ready to be set off by the first pilot light it encounters. by pooling it takes less of it to set off an explosion than natural gas.

Jack

hi everyone,
just popping in to share this - it's short - has no relevance to topic - pop corn and cell phones

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=V94shlqPlSI

ciao

"Movement to Rename Sewage Plant After Bush Gains Steam in San Francisco"

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,372303,00.html

Gotta love it

Jack

Where was Stan?

whadda day........

head down.......furiously slashing at the keys......witty rebuttal forthcoming.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv1N6TVCnLs

Nite all

rebuttus interruptus...............plan B.......ignoriance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnIkPQu06VY

nite yusef........

Apparently Craig isn't using this group as a barometer of how quickly Clinton support is shifting to Obama.
--brine

clinton support will support senator clinton and follow her lead........and support senator clinton...........obama's support is kind of iffy at this point wouldnt you say?

can you say "Chicago"? lol

garsh........can anyone join me in a chorus of "Mayor Richard Daley JUNIOR".....

lol

clinton support will support senator clinton and follow her lead........and support senator clinton..........

so what else is new?

the only "bill clinton problem" is what kind of deal chicago is going to have to cut with bill.......

can you say "pound of flesh"?

lol.......jesus, whadda goober......

brine.....maybe you should just leave it at "I cant think"

you listen to me? why the hell should you? that's crazy.....who the hell is asking you to listen to me?

you trying to be witty again?

i like this scena...........bill and hillary clinton against the goddam city of chicago........good game....not over........remains to be seen.....and you goobers are over there in the end zone jumping up and down like you won something........

slashed again by your coruscating wit.

--Dick Martin

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=jesus+christ+superstar&hl=en&sitesearch=#

uno ultima

woops......wrong song........lol

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=jesus+christ+superstar&hl=en&sitesearch=#

woops....wrong song.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb_9uH-ELJE&eurl=http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=jesus+christ+superstar&hl=en&sitesearch=

least i know the difference between hear and here......and i never post under than my own name......not that that means a heckova lot (frank zappa)

No one is here either. Sorry I missed you.....Sturge.

hey corey

Just got home from work. I guess I missed the battle of wits.

battle schmattle.....how was work?

I yust staid too long at the farr......plyed the pye-anner keys for some folkses tonight.......you shoulda seen 'em do the polka........straight outa show-pan.........

It was a short night , only 5 hours. I'm going to see Dierks Bentley in concert Friday night in Muskegon. Thunderstorms are predicted. I hope it doesn't rain. It's an outdoor concert.

the only other guy i ever knew from michegan was a guy from monroe i was in naval tech school with.......i never got up to mich with him but i took him to birmingham alabama with me oncet.....that was ah hilarious trip.........

"The Illinois senator opposes a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage and says states should make their own decisions on the matter. He has said he's interested in ensuring that same-sex couples in civil unions get federal benefits."

I justread this in an article posted online. It's about Barack Obama's stance on gay marriage. Sounds like Obama will keep things as they are right now.

I used to live 30-45 minutes from Monroe. Now I live over 3 hours from there.

oh......like some people thought a change was in the air?
lol

chicago

i think he liked toledo..........

well, sir.....I am a late night victim of the grape and I must bid you much adieu about nada..........

"The Gambler, The Nun, and the Radio"

short story by E Hemingway............

good night, kind sir........

I read a comment here a few weeks ago that said people were soon going to be able to marry whoever they wanted. I assumed that was if Obama is our next President. I guess that will depend on what state you live in. Same as it is right now. Toledo was the place I went to for the nightlife. I was 30 minutes from there as well.

Adios.

"t grieves me that many Clinton supporters have hurt feelings. I really wish I could heal that"

Bull. xep -- this is not about the sweeties having their little feelings hurt. It's about a primary that was as close to rigged as anything I've ever seen. Caucuses that ignore elderly, disabled and many workers (and encourage thuggery), disenfranchising two states and not allowing a real vote, RAMPANT sexism and collusion with the media. My feelings ain't hurt, Bubba. I'm pissed at what used to be my party.

"you've earned your right to show only contempt for the welfare of America's newest generation of returning vets. "

Spitting on a real vet, Bri-Bri? God what a phoney you are.

Good Morning, Patsi,

Glad to see you're not buying into Obama's big Unity Party caca.

I'm with you, Patsi.

"oh, like some people thought change was in the air"
posted by sturgeone

This supports your point, strug.

Obama Change Agent Goes Conventional

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/11384.html

Good morning, Marcia -- No I'm not buying the unity line. First of all, over at thehill.com, there's an article about Obama at the Congressional Black Caucus still whining that he had to "bite his tongue" during the campaign....referring to the Clintons and so-called racism. What a complete phony.

BEST NEWS ARTICLE OF THE DAY:

Man caught having sex with table gets 6 months

Posted: Sunday, June 22, 2008 at 6:11 p.m.

BELLEVUE, OH -- Police say a man was arrested after admitting to, and being caught on DVD having sex with his picnic table repeatedly.
Investigators say they received a tip that Art Price Jr., 40, of 146 Brinker St. in Bellevue was having sex with a picnic table while outside on the deck. The incidents occurred between January and March 2008.

Police say on March 13, the tipster dropped off three DVDs which showed Price in the act. On four occasions, Price is seen naked and masturbating in the rear room near the open doorway; he then comes out to the deck. He tilts the metal round picnic table on its side and lays up against it and has sexual intercourse with the table. Afterwards he cleans the table and the deck.

(My question is about the tipster who'd been taping all these months....)

One more thing....keep checking www.dailyhowler.com for a scathing series about NBC and the trashing of Al Gore in 2000.

Neither one. Jim Webb is the obvious choice.
Capitol Hill experience and a military record.
He would be the best fighter in the campaign boxing match against John McCain.

(My question is about the tipster who'd been taping all these months....) http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/biden-and-clark-in-vp-fight.html#comment-107765

Don't worry. He probably kept a copy for himself.

he had to "bite his tongue" during the campaign....referring to the Clintons and so-called racism. What a complete phony."
Posted by: Patsi | June 27, 2008 6:25 AM

Don't believe a word the man says.
It was just his way of bringing it up again (while pretending not to bring it up).

The Line: Sorting Out the Presidential Playing Field

Less than five months remain before the November election and slowly but surely the outlines of the national playing field are coming into focus.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/

Bogus argument to blame Obama's loss on the Clintons. If he loses, it will be from his own frailties and failures and those of the super-delegates who should have known better. His victory margin in the Primary was with caucus votes and super-delegates from Red states Dems have no chance of winning in Nov., super-delegates from the Liberal wing of the Party who voted agains their own states, and super-energized and motivated groups who turned out 90+ percent in the Primaries but represent minority percentages in the General.

Then again staying around these folks would test your Darwin skills. Jack
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/biden-and-clark-in-vp-fight.html#comment-107704

Jack, LOL

Don't let xrepublican see that.
Are you playing with these gun rights opponents.
You know how passionate they are. They don't even want you to own your own personal nuke.

My favorite that you posted yesterday is the Granny shooting machine gun. Ain't no one gonna take her purse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--K3X6rptE4

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/biden-and-clark-in-vp-fight.html#comment-107770

John Hogue,
You can say that again. Well summarized.

Patsi,

Thanks for the heads-up on The Hill piece. Here's the url:
http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/obama-i-bit-my-tongue-against-clinton-2008-06-26.html

I was here at ground-zero in South Carolina. I saw one well orchestrated racist campaign. It wasn't Mrs Clintons.

Thanks for the url, Flatus....for some reason, with this new laptop, I can't copy and paste from the top line showing a url...I have no idea why. I highlight it, but when I go up to try and copy, nothing happens.

ET - what's with this Belgian company Inbev trying to buy Anheuser-Busch? It's sounds as if they're gonna get it, and I cringe for St Louis if they do. AB is more than just a company for StL. I know Inbev wants to be the world's biggest, but that can't be necessary. I hate this kind of thing.

Posted by: bethyboo | June 26, 2008 5:10 PM

InBev will be even bigger than PepsiCo once Anheuser-Busch is acquired. The company used to have a different name, but I believe BRAZILLIANS bought the Belgian company something BEV, almost the same name. I believe InBev wants to introduce some of the finer American beers around the world (I personally would LOVE to see Budweiser again) and then it gives them the opportunity to sell excellent Belgians in America and so forth.

My nationalist side is pissed that such an important company that is part of our national identity, could be taken over in such a way. On the other hand, we might be able to see some of the American brews made here.

It's all money, consolidation, making the rich, richer. Same dance, different hall. I am back to work now, I have to work late shift.

Might have a new business soon...

fingers crossed.

Obama, Clinton Join Together in Show of Unity
Former Rivals Stress Goal of Bringing Democrats Together

"Obama faced some tough questions during the event, designed to help put 18 months of hard feelings aside and allow Democrats to focus on a general-election campaign against Republican Sen. John McCain. At one point, an attendee told Obama that if he wanted to be seen as a true leader, he needed acknowledge that sexism had played a role in the demise of Clinton's campaign. Obama agreed and said that the issue should be addressed."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/26/AR2008062604151.html

Unite for Change Rally With Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton..Unity Elementary School - Gates Open at 11:00 a.m.

Patsi,
When you copy and paste, do you right click to copy or use the edit button. Just curious if you tried it both ways.

Good luck on the new business, ET.

Europeans, for years and years have had a fascination with the American food and beverage manufacturing and marketing industries. Seems as if they do better with them than with heavy manufacturing.

It's probably in our interest that we have a common economic stake in something that we're both successful at.

"When you copy and paste, do you right click to copy or use the edit button. Just curious if you tried it both ways."

I use the edit function....I don't know what youm mean by right click....on my Mac, it's easy to do on the keyboard.....but not this PC. I'm sure it's just something I don't know about. (I can use the edit function to copy and paste on anything but that top line where the url shows up....)

Gotta run my car to Toyota....be back soon if anybody has ideas about my inability to copy & paste!!!!

Copy/paste problem!? Several answers here.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070127102928AAeOW9e

May want to check your mouse settings too in your control panel..

When you right click to copy, you get a drop down window to choose copy, paste, cut etc. That's the way I normally do it. I also attach a usb mouse when I use my laptop. Just a personal preference, but that probably isn't your problem

The slide of the Value of the American Dollar means that much of the rest of the World is playing with real money against our monopoly currency. Until we reverse the trend, we'll see more approaches and purchases by Foreign companies of US assets.

Talk about a grave and growing threat: What happens if the World switches to a currency other than the dollar for international exchanges and valuations? What if the China, India, Japan, etc. choose to hold their balance of payments transactions in Euro's? What if they decline to buy the debt we issue to support our continuing deficits and multi-trillion-dollar debt?

It's a global economy and world out there. We must strengthen ourselves here at home with Zero-tolerence against countries who do not treat us economically equitably. (Protectionism, Nationalism, Buy American) We must endure short-term pain and global derision in order to insure our longer-term viability on the World stage, because we-re now headed in the wrong direction.

Just a Thought!

Yes Nick, Good Morning.
Just noticed Craig opened a new thread.
see you over there.

New Thread

mornin' all.

everyone in the DC area sleep better last night knowing you can blow intruders away again? I was on the road yesterday PM so I missed the fun here. And they think guns are dangerous? Shows that the modern equivalent of the pen is indeed mightier than the modern equivualent of the sword.

I did get a chance to think about the court's gun ruling and think it boils down to 2 key points: 1. the 2nd amendment confers on individuals the right to possess arms; and 2. a state (or territory or district) can't regulate the individual right conferred by the amendment to the extent that it can't be exercised. Everything else will have to be thrashed out in the courts. I think the self defense language - which the news media is obsessed with - was nothing more than rambling dicta by the uberconservative court elder - it is not in the amendment, and in fact is contrary to the language of the amendment.

Patsi - after you highlight the URL, try Control-C to copy it and Control-V to paste it. It might work if the right click copy function doesn't.

I know I sound like a broken record but I can not vote for Obama after the Primary he waged. I know many of those racism slurs against Bill came from his campaign. I still haven't figured how I will vote but I am pretty adament that I will not change on Obama. Also what a weak response he gave on the Supreme Court decision on handguns. Sounds like a real politician. Where is the change he speaks of.? I could not believe some of the "safe" and weak positions he is taking. This is our nominee!!!!

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