Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Why does everyone keep mentioning Sam Nunn? The man is knowledgeable but wouldn't it look as if Sen Obama needed a "grown-up" to hold his hand? Not to mention that he has all the charisma of a head of cauliflower.
What am I missing about Nunn?

from the last thread...

Lush, LOL. What does HL stand for? Happy little, or something like it?
--pogo

ummmmmm...
"H" for happy...definitely!!
"L" for little...uhhhh...definitely not...LOLOLOLOL!!!

actually, the "HL" in my LMHLAO is for "Hillary lovin'"(silly, huh?)!!!

McCain '08
Clinton/Obama '12
Obama '20

Posted by: LushIsLinda | June 17, 2008 2:10 PM

Obama is going to have a VP? Is 1 of 4 in the sweepstakes a good result? LOL

Lush, that's fine with me.

maggs, apparently the Obama camp is of the opinion that Georgia is or could be in play - and McOldGuy's margin there has dropped to 9 from 15 percent. Nunn would draw votes - mostly white male votes I'm guessing - in Georgia. And old farts like the BOW contingent know who he is, so the name recognition factor in a currently lost demographic may be of some value.

Dog's -- Richardson? Really?

Sam Nunn? Turning the page back to the 19th Century. If Obama picked Nunn it would be slap in the face to the gay and lesbian community. Nunn is responsible for don't ask don't tell and tried to run all gays out of the military.

pogo: I have no quarrel with Nunn as someone capable of taking over, if need be (my #1 criterion). But, I think that it's also important to have someone who might be able to run for President in 8 years.
And, might I say ... if Georgia is in play, it's in play ... aside from LBJ in 1960 there's no recent credible evidence that the VP candidate helps all that much.

Jonathan Capehart
Wednesday, June 11, 2008; Page A19

As Sen. Barack Obama considers potential running mates, he should contemplate Sam Nunn with caution. As chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee in 1993, Nunn helped lead the fight against allowing gay men and lesbians to serve openly in the military and was the force behind the disastrous "don't ask, don't tell" compromise. In the process, Nunn engendered the enduring enmity of a loyal voting and fundraising bloc of the Democratic Party.
http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_stump/archive/2008/06/11/nunn-watch.aspx

"McCain to allow Off-shore drilling"

Burrito, I have thought for some time that this whole oil crisis was a hammerlock to force more drilling.

By the way, my talking about anon. names yesterday wasn't really aimed at you -- just meant that most people, even if they've been posting using "Bugs Bunny" for years, are still anon.

In this VP sweepstakes, Dems should cast their minds back to 1992 and remember the absolute thrill of the Clinton-Gore bus trip and how counter-intuitive it seemed for a young Southern Governor to choose an even younger Southern Senator from a neighboring state that he could have won anyway.
IMHO, what Sen Obama does not need is someone with the personality of paint drying, but such another counter-intuitive choice.

Bear -- I still don't think every person who voted for
authorization of force if necessary should be out there bowing and scraping for our forgiveness. If that's the name of the game, I've got a loooong list of crap I want apologies from both parties of congress for.....

maggs, I'm not saying it would accomplish that goal - I'm just speculating about why he might be under consideration. However - in 3 of the 4 last elections, the VP's state did vote for the Dem nominees - Edwards under Kerry is the one that didn't. I don't know that a trend is there,

Patsi: With regard to Sen McCain's position ... it is his feeling that off-shore drilling should be allowed for those states that with to drill offshore. Currently there is a moratorium on all offshore drilling.
And, while I am opposed to the continued reliance on oil, there is something to be said for the idea that a change in our law might send a signal to the markets --
What I am interested in right now is whether either candidate is talking about re-regulating the commodies futures markets ... that's the source of the current crisis.

From previous thread:

Nick

Craig really has asked that a basic level of civility be observed and to try and avoid the profanity. It's not censorship and some gets posted anyway, but one of the reasons this is one of the most sane political sites in the blogsphere is that we do try to pull back from the edge when things get particularly heated.

Pogo: One can't count Conn voting for Gore, or Wyoming voting for Bush. As to Tennessee voting for Clinton ... remember that the TN Dems also voted for Sen Clinton in the primary ... it's a neighboring state kind of thing. Jack Kemp -- remember him? -- from California with a detour to New York....neither state went for Dole ... Indiana and Pappy Bush? Indiana's been Republican for years. I just don't think it holds up. And, it looks like what it is....politics before principle.

oh, and Maggs, I wouldn't put Nunn on the ticket on a dare or a bet.

Patsi: When I think of the AUMF vote, I try to think back to whether we all knew that the Bush Administration was peopled by pathological liars. He did continually state that we weren't going to war except as a last resort, that he hadn't yet decided on war, etc etc. Unlike John Edwards, both Sens Kerry and Clinton warned against using the AUMF to go to war in their floor speeches .... could it be that they believed that GWB was a decent man who would come back to Congress as his father did?

champ

please do not allow yourself to be "pulled back in" until 18JUN08 @ 1:21pm ;~P

TIA

Jamie: Certainly when compared with other sites I have visited, the people who post here are extremely civil, most of the time.

pogo: It just strikes me as so odd that people keep mentioning Sam Nunn. I mean...where did the idea come from? Why do the talking heads keep bringing him up? My take on this whole thing is that Sen Obama is either going to win going away or that, in the alternative, there is no one he can put on the ticket who could really help him win and he ought to choose someone with whom he feels comfortable.

Only I surely do hope the person with whom he feels comfortable is not Bill Richardson.

On the Veepstakes, I started this political season with Biden, so it wouldn't upset me to see him in that slot except for the loss to the Senate. Definitely not not not Richardson.

If I were handing out advice to Sen. Obama it would be to pull a "Team of Rivals" and have Edwards, Clinton, and Biden on the cabinet but only if they would be likely to be replaced by Democrats in the Senate.

Richardson can look at the New Mexico scenery until doomsday.

Patsi,

You make a valid point. If HRC genuinely feels that her decision was the best, then she is a profile in courage for sticking with it. At the same time, she shouldn't be surprised that her campaign was rejected because of it. The poster child for that opinion is Joe Lieberman. For the most vocal part of the base, the war is the biggest issue and lost to the putz...I can't even remember his name, during the primary.

If I were to paint her position with a political brush, it was a general election position. She would be to the left of any Neocon nominee because she could argue that she favored action in Iraq, but was created this clusterf@# was the incompetence of the Bush administration. After all, they were very short sighted and didn't plan for a long term engagement.

I think her argument was better suited for 2004 and not 2008. I think if she ran 4 years ago she would have one. She would have had so much more going for her in that race, especially more recent memories of her husband's years in office. I remember a lot of people saying that better to have a president lie about sex than for reasons to go to war.

By waiting until 2008 and after seeing her campaigns attitude that the race would be over on February 5th, it became to easy for me to see a major parallel between her campaign and the President's plan for Iraq.

Experience would be her premise to run. On the heels of "an experienced administration" creating such a mess, after her husbands successful years, when the Republicans claimed he lacked it, seem to demonstrate that perhaps the experience thing is a bit over rated.

I hope this gives you a better perspective on where I'm coming from.

OK, maggs, I give on the VP thing - but I didn't mean to include Repugs - I'll grant you that Clinton probably could have won TN without Gore, although those 2 elections were the only ones since Carter that TN went Dem, and Gore would have gotten CT without Holy Joe. Of course, we'll see if Obama can pull off the neighboring state trick - which he may be able to do at least for 5 of them since 3 of those states have been solidly Dem for a while, 2 are swing states, and one is Repug.

Drilling in the Gulf (an example--using Florida).

Florida's absolutely greatest single resource is not the oil off its shores, it is its location on a peninsula extending into pristine warm ocean waters. Waters that provide a magnet for tourism, and habitat for its seafood industry.

The economic risk of damage to the Florida littoral of the magnitude of Alaska, the French coast, or, just this year, the west coast of Korea, makes the marginal decreases in the cost of petroleum if drilling is permitted insignificant when compared to the long-term cost to Florida interests, and, by extension, national interests.

Every time entrenched business interests attack Mother Nature, we, the people, end up being the losers.

Now, if someone wants to give me, let's say $5-million, I'll crunch numbers that will prove my hypothesis to a 90th percentile certainty.

I'm sure the oil industry will spend 200 times that amount and not be able to achieve a scientifically rigorous result supporting its position.

Pogo: I just don't know who he'd pick that would engender the level of needed excitement -- of course, he could experiment...pick Sibelius and see if the combination of her position, and his own mother's roots would make Kansas turn blue....now that would be interesting.

Maggisd,

I thought Florida was the only state with a ban of offshore drilling because they don't want it to affect their gulf beaches. It's banned now in CA too?

"My take on this whole thing is that Sen Obama is either going to win going away or that, in the alternative, there is no one he can put on the ticket who could really help him win and he ought to choose someone with whom he feels comfortable. "

I think you are on the money, Maggi.

Flatus: Florida is unalterably opposed to offshore drilling. As is California (although we do have some offshore oil production left over from earlier times). The point of Sen McCain's position is that those states who wish to drill offshore (Louisiana and Texas) should not be precluded from doing so.
I'm not stating that I necessarily agree with this position, only that his position should be stated correctly.
BTW, has any of you ever seen pictures of the area in Canada that produces shale oil? OMG ... that is horrific ... worse than strip mining for coal.

Bear: Right now new coastal drilling is banned everywhere ... there is a moratorium.
Offshore drilling has been banned by state law in California for many years, except for a very few oil rigs that were grandfathered in. Those off the coast of Santa Barbara are no longer active, but they continue to seep oil. Those off of Palos Verdes continue to pump. Although not as productive as it once was, a measurable amount of oil is still pumped in Southern California.
Growing up in California I can well remember coming home from the beach with tar on our feet because of the oil seepage...

Bear -- Yes, I see where you are coming from. But about Joe Lieberman. I don't for a minute believe that he thought he was just authorizing force if force was needed. I think he was slobbering to invade Iraq. No matter what he said, he's a neocon.

I agree with you on those first reactions to 9/11. I think many were in revenge mode, me included. It was when I saw the way Bush was pushing his war agenda that I got very nervous. "You're with us or against us." Plus, when they started rounding up Afghan teenagers for bounties, and those kids started being shipped to prison and tortured.....well, I knew we were creating generations of hate in the Middle East, and we didn't care.

Sorry posted on previous thread as this one was being created:

Someone finally focusing on the parents that leave their kids! Go Obama!

CHICAGO, Illinois (AP) -- Barack Obama celebrated Father's Day by calling on black fathers, who he said are "missing from too many lives and too many homes," to become active in raising their children. "They have abandoned their responsibilities, acting like boys instead of men. And the foundations of our families are weaker because of it," the Democratic presidential candidate said Sunday at a largely black church in his hometown.

Reminding the congregation of his firsthand experience growing up without a father, Obama said he was lucky to have loving grandparents who helped his mother. He got support, second chances and scholarships that helped him get an education. Obama's father left when he was 2.

"A lot of children don't get those chances. There is no margin for error in their lives," said Obama, an Illinois senator.

"I resolved many years ago that it was my obligation to break the cycle -- that if I could be anything in life, I would be a good father to my girls," added Obama, whose daughters, Sasha and Malia, and his wife, Michelle, watched from the audience.

I really love that he made this an issue, too many deadbeats both black and white not taking care of their children. Excuses are plentiful but responsibility lacking.

Louisiana and Texas should be allowed to do whatever they wish so long as they indemnify the people in adjoining states for whatever damages said drilling may cause directly and indirectly.

And I do appreciate the importance of having Sen McCain's position stated accurately.

And, yes, I have seen the pictures from Canada. Horrific. But, at least the affects are contained; something impossible in the ocean. The oil slicks will continue spreading until they are a single molecule thick.

So much for pouring oil on troubled waters.

Not a bit testy with you--I'm just passionate about insane ecological rationalizations, something which you certainly have not advocated.

Patsi: What has always amazed me about the way that we operated / operate in the Middle East is that GWB was supposed to have had such a close relationship with Tony Blair ... and if anyone should have known better, one would think it would be a well educated Brit ... particularly someone from Labour.

Utopia/Nash: I wish the country was really moving left socially, but I don't believe it for a minute. Nor do I believe your guy Obama is particularly a leftist. He's a corporate candidate, and if deep connections into the telecommunications industry don't worry you....well...

I think the reason you believe it's moving left is because of the hatred for George Bush among indies and moderate Republicans. That doesn't translate to left-leaning no matter who wins in November.

All it will take is for another Democratic president to be perceived as ineffectual as Jimmy Carter, and for any major international crisis to appear botched, and we'll see another Reagan revolution.

I am very upset..... I found this video about Hillary and the voice over comments the poster has added to the video are not only patently offensive, they are violent and suggest rape and assault against Hillary. I urge everyone to go and flag this video as inappropriate. It's not just pedantic testosterone-laden commentary, but pure HATRED. Not only must this video be flagged, but the person needs to be reported to the authorities.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ66BCGRIag

Comments?

Exactly, Maggi....Tony Blair turned out to be such a disappointment.

Patsi,

I agree completely with your point about Lieberman. I think that any Senator who tried to make that argument was a coward and derelict in their duty to not realize that Bush and Co. were horny for this fight and any excuse to get it.

It really saddens me to realize how different things could have been were Paul Wellstone alive for the pre war debate.

Posted by: KC | June 17, 2008 3:16 PM

Obama should have credited Juan Williams and Bill Cosby. And the million man march. He is not the first person to say these things and what has he done since Bill Cosby said them several years ago.

Did Obama march in the Million Man march?
Life existed before Obama

Flatus: I am passionate about the Environment. It is my #1 issue. And I have felt in the past that Sen McCain actually was better on the Environment than Sen Obama ... I am withholding my judgment on this one.
I would point out that Sen McCain is strongly against drilling in ANWR and other Federal lands. I suspect that the off-shore thing is probably because we're already drilling in the Gulf ... but I don't know.
IMHO neither candidate has taken a strong enough position on higher fuel efficiency standards ... and both are wonky on Nuclear Energy. But I like McCain's position on ethanol ... I think we are now finding out that the whole ethanol thing is just not the way to go.

Maggisd,

I have never understood the Bush/Blair relationship, especially after being told that Blair and Clinton were so close...

Then I heard that Blair was very religious and that put much into perspective for me.

anonymous: The Rev Jackson has also been saying these things for years. Apparently it is no longer comme il faut to admire Rev Jackson, but I continue to do so.

Tom -- well, here was one of the comments left with the video: "best video ever HAAHHAHAHAHAA "

But don't tell people here because there are some who believe we radicals invented this idea of ugly, violent sexist commentary.

Bear:
As wonderful as Sen Wellstone was, I do not think he could have done any better than Senator Byrd or Senator Kennedy.
The problem with debate in the Senate is that no one listens to each other any more ... Sen Byrd pointed out in one of his many passionate statements that he was addressing an empty chamber.

If Obama admitted to Marching the Million Man March, wouldn't he be tied to Farrakhan and Marion Barry?

If Bill Cosby can raise a fuss by being more frank than Obama, less intemperate words by Obama the politician can have a bigger impact on people, I hope, in terms of legislation and attitudes, because he's talking to a larger audience than the people of that congregation. It will cause people to give him a second look, too...

But then, does anyone think that all those deadbeat dads out there vote? Can't hurt Obama for taking those men to task. :-)

anonymous: The Rev Jackson has also been saying these things for years. Apparently it is no longer comme il faut to admire Rev Jackson, but I continue to do so

Thanks for adding Rev Jackson's name. There a probably others as well. Apparently for some it doesn't count unless it comes from the Obama.

Maggie,

To some extent I agree, but Wellstone was

1. A former wrestling coach who didn't take crap.
2. A lot younger than the other Senators and as such I think a bit more energetic.
3. He would have been recently reelected so that he would have been politically insulated from being vocally anti war when everyone wanted scalps. Now he would have looked like Kreskin.

Bear: Interestingly, Mr Blair converted to Catholicism almost immediately after leaving office (I believe his wife is a Catholic). I will need to look this up, but I wonder if it is still against UK law for a Catholic to be PM...
OK...got a little off track here, but, in fact, the Catholic church was opposed to the Iraq invasion from the beginning.
I just think the thing with the Brits is that they value the Anglo-American alliance above any other foreign policy consideration.

"It really saddens me to realize how different things could have been were Paul Wellstone alive for the pre war debate."

Oh, Lord, Bear! You and me both. Here's the height of denial. I had just mailed in a donation to his campaign when my son called and told me he'd been killed. For a split second, I thought, "Well, no, that can't be -- I just sent him some money." It really took a few minutes for it to sink in.

And in so many ways, over time I've been reminded of what we lost.

Patsi:

I respectfully disagree. If you look at my post carefully, you'll see that I didn't equate Obama with leftist politics - by my eyes, he's not a leftist, but a center-left candidate at best. My point was simply this: the old, stodgy, regressive republican ways will not fly in the future. There are a lot of smart socio-political analysts out there writing about this trend to the left. Now, I don't expect everyone to suddenly power up and say, "We want Scandinavian-style Social Democracy!!" but I think, particularly with issues like climate change, health care, social security, corporate regulation, green politics, and so on, the country is increasingly moving away from the republicans. McCain's stances on taxes, Iraq, abortion, marriage, corporate regulation through higher taxation, etc. will make him, in the future, look like an outmoded political dinosaur. I really don't believe McCain represents the pulse (hey, does he even *have* a pulse) of the country.

PS: And why do people call me Nash??? : )

P of U ... you mean Mainland European style Social Democracy. It has its positive points.

Bear: I did not mean to imply that Sen Wellstone would not have been a forceful advocate for the anti-War position. I am just saying that it was not as if the entire Senate caved in ... there were opposition voices. The problem is / was that most of the Senators don't listen to each other anymore ...

Nunn = Cheney-esque.

At the DPVA Convention Senator Webb was acting like he just ate the canary I wouldn't be surprised if they offered it to him already. Not that I would want that to happen. I'd rather it go to Tom Kaine.

PofU
(hey, does he even *have* a pulse) -- cheap shot.

ET: I'm in favor of socialism in general. The Scandinavian Social Democracies are good models to start with.

maggisd:

Yes, it was a total cheap shot, but how is this going to be any fun if we can't be a little silly : )

Especially, with someone like McCain who...well...just an horrible candidate.

Sam Nunn was always creepy as I recall... So into military this, military that... and he has these shifty eyes and this frown on his face that's scary. Mind you, not as scary as Dick Cheney... next to Cheney he's like Norman Vincent Peale

Gay and Proud -- Obama doesn't need gays to win. He's got a new map. It's similar to the way his campaign regards the women's vote. As in, "you don't like me, but you like the other guy less. I don't need to "pander" to get your vote, because you'll vote for me anyway."

Nice, huh?

Maggisd,

I understood where you are coming from. Since the advent of CSPAN, it's very rare that Senators deliver an address when they are all physically present in the room.

I lament the lack of Wellstone for that debate because I personally doubt he would have sat by quietly like many others did.

No sooner than I type the above, I found this...anyone have an idea when it was delivered?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF2CLRZLK2E

Nick

All I did was comment that the language was not appreciated and that the host of this blog has previously requested that it be avoided.

Your grammar is of no concern.

Alicia: Jim Webb? Oh, good grief ... don't get me wrong ... I'm glad that he seems to be a fairly reliable Democratic vote in the Senate, but I don't think that all of Sen Webb's past statements will do much to help win over disgruntled feminists. In fact, he might drive some of them away.
Your Governor Kaine might well be a good choice .... why isn't anyone mentioning him?

Maggie

The PM can be any religion. It is the crown that cannot be Catholic.

I am a native Minnesotan and I was shocked when Paul Wellstone died... My mother was heartbroken. It just didn't seem possible !!! I thought Mondale would have gotten elected but unfortunately one of Wellstone's main supporters, in his grief, turned the eulogy into a partisan political crusade against Norm Coleman and Republicans which, in turn, made the then Governor of Minnesota -- Jesse Ventura, go off... Mondale had only 1 week to campaign but after this guy\s comments, support for Coleman rise dramatically.

Then Jesse Ventura appointed some nobody to be US Senator for 2 months, just to spite Mondale and the Democrats.

PofU: I suspect that you are relatively young. Once you have a few more birthdays, you will probably not find it so amusing to equate age with death.
I will grant you that Sen McCain is not a great orator ... few people are. But, if you ever have occasion, you should really take the opportunity to go to a McCain Town Hall meeting ... he is far from a horrible candidate.

Was Wellstone Assassinated by EMF?

http://www.opednews.com/thoreau1203_wellstone_assassinated.htm
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Two Strange Deaths Which Changed History

Paul Wellstone and Mel Carnahan

http://www.wanttoknow.info/wellstonecarnahan

Jamie: TY for the information. I should actually know that, but I confess I didn't. Still, I can't help but think that Mr Blair put off his conversion for political reasons.

I have read that Prince Charles hopes to be able to disconnect the Crown from the CofE if he ever becomes King.

Hastert was a wrestling coach and he took all kinds of crap.

Wellstone Speech

"The week before, on October 3, 2002 Wellstone addressed the proposed attack upon and occupation of Iraq in a speech given from the floor of the Senate. "The United States could send tens of thousands of US troops to fight in Iraq," he said, "and in so doing, we could risk countless lives of US soldiers and innocent Iraqis."

Full Truth Out article

http://www.truthout.org/article/william-rivers-pitt-his-name-was-wellstone

Nick: Jamie is not a person who mocks other people. If I were to merely state that the word should be admonitions and not admonishments would you feel that I was mocking you?
Or being uncivil? Because I have to tell you that many people feel that certain expletives are always uncivil.

Gordo,

I noticed some of those Wellstone assassination links and I forgot about Carnahan. Anyone here from Missouri remember if he would have beaten Ashcroft were he alive for the election?

I also wonder who was the last major politician to die that didn't create any grassy knoll theories on the internet...Strom Thurmond? Gerald Ford?

Webb can't be VP - he lost to Richardson in round 2.

maggisd:

Point taken, however, I would also hope that I could find humor in the ironic situation of a 71-year-old, utterly robotic candidate trying to fend off somebody like an Obama. Facts is facts, right, that's all I'm saying. And this whole town hall argument? Come one, the town hall situations have led to "Bomb, Bomb, Iran," "I'll stay in Iraq for 100 years," "Iran, Iraq, and Al Qaeda are the same to me," and so on. He may be more charismatic (read: not an utter embarrassment) in those situations, but in those contexts, when he's off message, he's also liable to lose his bearings and say really crazy stuff.

An article on the Wellstone memorial

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2003/06/04_zdechlikm_kahn/

Bear: Carnahan did beat Ashcroft.
Actually, my recollection is that he was ahead in the polls at the time of his death and that Ashcroft actually did better than expected .... he always claimed that if it had not been widely known that the Governor intended to appoint Jean Carnahan to fill the seat that he (Ashcroft) would have won.
Still, as much as I disliked Ashcroft, I give him credit for resisting the pressure to re-authorize the secret spying.

Nick

The only reason for posting twice is because I didn't realize that there had been a thread change, so I moved it forward to the new thread.

Read my comment. All I said was that I didn't think the language was necessary and that our host has requested that it be avoided. I wasn't censoring you just supplying the reasons why it wasn't the norm in here until very recently. We even had an imaginary swear jar.

You are free to disagree all you want about anything.
No objection whatsoever.

Pogo

"Webb can't be VP - he lost to Richardson in round 2."

lol

I don't think Sen. Obama is asking for our advice.

PofU: I'm sorry to see you picking up on the "lost his bearings" meme ... I find it utterly contemptible. Sen McCain has always been quick to say what comes to his mind ... and his remarks are not always politic. He has had a tendency to go for the quip first and the serious answer second ... not great in the YouTube age ... but not a sign of decreased mental capacity.

Your point of view would be better served if you didn't find it humorous to make fun of him -- or anyone -- because of his age.

From the wanttoknow link :

"On October 16, 1972, just weeks before national elections, two other Democratic Congressmen were killed in a mysterious plane crash. Thomas Hale Boggs, Sr. was the Majority leader of the House of Representatives at the time. Congressman Nick Begich of Alaska was with him in the plane. Their bodies were never found. Congressman Boggs had been involved with the Warren Commission investigating the Kennedy assassination."

(Hale Boggs, father of Cokie Roberts)

Jamie: I have a strong feeling that, in the end, the only one whose advice he will really seek will be Michelle.

Maybe you should use "Simon" as you name that way we can play Simon Says.
Posted by: Nick | June 17, 2008 3:52 PM

Nick, I hesitate to comment on your comment ... those situations are rarely constructive. I have not see your original comment that inspired Jamie to say something, so I am at a disadvantage here. But I have read Jamie's comment and I found it thoughtful -- not admonishing -- just pointing out a sort of "rule of the road" on this blog. I learned early in that I could say what I needed to without going into the expletives sphere. I found Jamie's comment sensitive to your feelings as well as to other participants. I know for a fact she wasn't putting you down, because that is pretty much the antithesis of what she stands for. She's for open communication, listening to each other and trying to maintain respect even when we disagree.

Nick, your replies seem overly angry and defensive. I understand, but I urge you not to think Jamie's motivation was criticism... It reads to me that she was saying that there are a few unwritten understandings in this blog and she thought you would like to know. At the end of the day, it's all about respect.

So don't take it as a slap because it wasn't one... :-) And from what I've read from you before, Jamie and you would have a lot in common.

In solidarity

Tom

And now could someone explain to me how I can manage to mangle at least one sentence in almost every comment that I post? :D

GORDO: Enough with the conspiracy theories. Travel in small planes in bad weather (and sometimes in good weather) is dangerous. Congressman Boggs was flying in Alaska, as I recall. Sen Wellstone was traveling in icy conditions. Gov Carnahan was flying in a rainstorm. It happens....just ask anyone who is old enough to remember Buddy Holly and Ritchie Valens and the Big Bopper.

Maybe some music critics of Buddy Holly and Ritchie Valens.... oh never mind.

Resurrect the jar.

Nick, sorry, but have you lost your mind? As mild as her posts to you on the last thread were, if you think you were mocked by jamie you must be spending your blog time at sites that require a totally kumbaya approach to blogging. jamie has, on numerous occasions, told people that Craig has tried to keep the level of discourse here and at this site's predecessors higher than the typical political blog by asking participants to refrain from profanity and personal attacks on each other and the candidates we support, sticking rather to political and media-related issues. Not her rules, not her wishes, but Craig's. Craig has personally tried to steer the conversation away from such tactics when it has in his view gotten out of hand. Reminding folks here of the host's wishes is hardly mocking them and hardly makes jamie a den mother of the site. Do what you like, but it would be nice if you'd consider the host's wishes when you do.

Maggisd:

More than anything, I poke fun at McCain to remind people that age is an absolutely legitimate issue in this election. As a country, we need to decide whether we are comfortable with a 71-year-old president. Remember, it is well documented that Reagan was pretty much over the limit after 1984. If one has to meet an age minimum requirement to run for president, there should be also be a discussion of age caps for running, too.

send all jar contributions to EUROTOM c/o XXXX

Gent, Belgium... contributions in EUROS only please :D

ET

"manage to mangle "

If you are like me it is a short circuit between the brain and fingers and thinking my typing is so good that I don't need to preview ... I am often wrong on that point. : )

Nick: Perhaps it would help you to know that I am a former school teacher -- and quite in the habit of issuing admonitions about all sorts of things.
As to the ethnic slur that you used by way of example ... I have never in my life, even in the heat of the moment used that or any comparable term.

Tom: We cannot afford to send contributions in Euros. And why did I think Gent was spelled Ghent? Are there two places with the same name?

Flatus,

If we resurrected the swear jar, Craig would quit his job and run off to the Caymans to live off of the money we put in it.

Obama's age will be an issue. His youth and inexperience are a problem for over half the voters.

Great idea, Flatus - I figure I'm into it to the tune of about half of Li'l Pogo's collge fund by now.

anonymous: exactly my point. age is a legitimate issue, no matter how you look at it.

I thought Sen Webb had enough self-respect and was a strong enough personality not to be seduced into being a VP.

PofU: If you have a serious concern about McCain's age, I have no problem with that. I'm pretty close to that age myself ... it's just that I don't think it is seemly to make fun of him and particularly not to enquire as to whether he has a pulse.

I still don't like making age an issue. We so often think of older citizens as disposable, not worthy, no longer effective. If he's up to the job on qualifications (which may be questionable) it is unfair to tag him unfit because of his age. Hitler persecuted the elderly because in his view, they where unfit to work, thus a burden to society. This was Hitler's view of socialism, if you can't work for the Nation, the Nation doesn't have to feed you! Caring for the disabled and the elderly was, in his view, a waste of resources and manpower.

so anyway, I disagree that the elderly are a waste of resources or that they are unfit...

Flatus: From the little I know of Sen Webb, I wonder if he'd be comfortable as VP.

Tom: We cannot afford to send contributions in Euros. And why did I think Gent was spelled Ghent? Are there two places with the same name?

Posted by: maggisd | June 17, 2008 4:21 PM

Ahhh maggis, great question. The fact is, the city is GENT, but in English it is spelled GHENT which is more phonetically correct sounding to the Flemish pronunciation of the city's name. In Dutch and Flemish the USA is known as the Verenigde Staten (the United States).. Dutch is not an easy language.

anon, the Obama campaign will dredge up references to Kennedy and Clinton's respective ages and experience levels when they were inaugurated to defuse the age/inexperience concerns. And the inevitable Lloyd Benson line will be thrown bwck in response. Any takers on this bet?

Fifty-two percent (52%) of Kansas voters say that Obama is too inexperienced to be President. Just 23% say McCain is too old for the job.
...Rasmussen Poll 6/16 Kansas Voters

PU
I was paraphrasing Ronald Reagan from a debate with Walter Mondale... I don't think age should be an issue but if Obamabots make it one, it will be a loser for the campaign. More people care about lack of experience.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/battles-loom-in-vp-madness.html#comment-103771

ET, the older I get, the more I find myself agreeing with that sentiment.

"send all jar contributions to EUROTOM c/o XXXX"

Sorry Tom....My swear words alone would secure your retirement.

PofU, anonymous, Tom: You all raise interesting points. Certainly I believe that it behooves us to be alert to the mental capacity of anyone running for office ... and if we see or hear things that are of concern, we are free to decide on that basis.
It's just that, if one really thinks that a candidate is at death's door, or half-way down the road to senile dementia, it doesn't really seem a fit subject for witty remarks.

PoU, I seriously think that McCain would be a disaster for our country, so I'm with you on that. But age should not, in and of itself alone, be a qualifying factor beyond that which is declared in the U.S. Constitution. My Mom just turned 70 and she's not happy about it at all. But for the last couple years she has worked at Wal-Mart and she LOVES it.. Ok I have serious concerns about Wal-Mart, but a lot of elderly WANT to still go out and work hard and be social and too many times we treat them as if they aren't important, or they are like little kids without any awareness or knowledge. In McCain's case this may be true ;-) ... Besides, the person I loved more than anyone in this world was my Grandmother and even up to her death at age 84 I still cherished her... I think you get my gist. :)

The one concern I would add to old age for someone like McCain is this: is he so set in his ways that he cannot be educated on issues? Is he so outside of the realities of our contemporary society that he cannot understand the complexities of problems our country face, much less offer solutions for them. In this regard, it's legitimate IMHO to raise the issue. But on age ALONE... no.. It has to be a deeper analysis. I will read the slate link.. then I am off to bed. 5:30 comes early

Tom: Gotcha ... afraid all the English speakers would pronounce the name as in ladies and gentlemen, right?
I'm reading an interesting book about your approximate neck of the woods right now .... it's called Vermeer's Hat. It explores the commercial changes of the 17th century through the details of several Vermeer paintings.

Now, tell yourself the following over and over - your mind will be at ease:

"Conspiracies do not exist, only coincidences."

Ronald Reagan, no surprise, was a master at these prerehearsed quips. Facing the beleaguered Carter in their single 1980 debate, Reagan deftly showed he could be a reassuring presence, an equal to an incumbent President, by artfully deploying that carefully calibrated put-down line, "There you go again."

But in 1984 Reagan stumbled through his first debate with Walter Mondale, losing the train of his argument, mangling phrases and making absurd claims (example: he did not attend religious services because "I pose a ((security)) threat to several hundred people if I go to church"). This performance prompted fears that at 73 Reagan was too old and doddering for the office. Given the record of his second term (his fogginess on the details of < Iran-contra, Nancy Reagan's astrologer), these turned out to be legitimate concerns. But they vanished in the second debate as soon as Reagan delivered his practiced crack that he had no plans to "exploit for political purposes my opponent's youth and inexperience." What was ironic was that Reagan's closing statement in that same debate, a scarcely coherent ramble about a trip down the Pacific Coast Highway, turned out to be a telling illustration of the vagaries of the President's mind.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,976824-3,00.html

This just in on cable--

Wolf Blitzer reports that Obama supporters gave a rousing booing
to Hillary Clinton when Obama mentioned her name in a speech today.

Isn't it commendable how those open-minded, Obama lefties are trying
so hard to unite the Democratic party?

Patsi: My sentiments exactly. My beloved Gramp lived to be 85, and he had a variety of physical ailments, but he never lost a beat in conversation, never lost his interest in the world around him, nor his ability to find new stories to amuse us....as with many men who went to war (in my experience), he was so happy to be alive that he found joy in everything.

Pogo,

I would be to differ because McCain would commit suicide with his base to claim Bill Clinton as a friend, especially after voting to convict on the impeachment charges. No one could claim to similarly know JFK...

As an aside, I just noticed that Sens. Snowe, Chaffee and Collins were the only 3 to cross party lines when casting their votes during the impeachment.

In the spirit of Obama..John Mayer tells fathers to be good to their daughters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DOdAOHBcZI

anonymous - i'm well aware of the quotation. if you look at recent polls, about 25% of voters are concerned about mccain's age

"Barack Obama aide: Why Winnie the Pooh should shape US foreign policy"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2139573/Barack-Obama-aide-Why-Winnie-the-Pooh-should-shape-US-foreign-policy.html

There is a fun headline, good thing for Obama it is in the UK.
The next sentence is almost as good.

"Winnie the Pooh, Luke Skywalker and British football hooligans could shape the foreign policy of Barack Obama if he becomes US President, according to a key adviser. "

If you don't find that amusing then you are taking this whole thing too serious.

Jack
Jack

On Fox five minutes ago----an interview with an activist Clinton organizer, a well-dressed, articulate woman, who has just announced her
full support and decision to vote for John McCain.

So much for the propaganda that all those Hillary women are moving
in droves to Obama.

Prof Marcia: I noted on several occasions the booing of Sen Clinton at Obama rallies....far more than the converse. It is clear to me, at least, that more than a few supporters of Sen Obama feel that Sen Clinton should have just stepped aside the day after Iowa.

Listen people - it's not all about mental aptitude either. It's about the energy and stamina needed to be president. The Wal-Mart example is great and heartwarming, but being president is a lot different from working at Wal-Mart.

anonymous - i'm well aware of the quotation. if you look at recent polls, about 25% of voters are concerned about mccain's age

Posted by: Politics of Utopia

So what. The poll I cited said 23%. You don't seem very aware of much of anything

Time to go ....

prof marcia: you should really check out Frank Rich's editorial about McCain and women voters, especially Clinton supporters.

Here's the link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/15/opinion/15rich.html

He writes:

"How heartwarming. You’d never guess that Mr. McCain is a fierce foe of abortion rights or that he voted to terminate the federal family-planning program that provides breast-cancer screenings. You’d never know that his new campaign blogger, recruited from The Weekly Standard, had shown his genuine affection for Mrs. Clinton earlier this year by portraying her as a liar and whiner and by piling on with a locker-room jeer after she’d been called a monster. “Tell us something we don’t know,” he wrote."

If some Clinton supporters want to take their pathetic, selfish, anger to the polls for McCain, then they have nobody but themselves to blame when they start to lose well-earned women's rights.

Most Presidents vacation 1/2 of the year anyway, so I think stamina wouldn't be a problem :-)

As for the booing of Clinton by Michigan Obama supporters, Mr. Obama came STRONGLY to Hillary's defense... a big thumbs up there.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/06/17/obama-defends-clinton-at-michigan-rally/

anonymous: the point is that you cited a poll from *Kansas* - not exactly representative of the country, dude.

FDR didn't have so much physical stamina, but he sure ran the country in a way that left an important and lasting legacy for future generations.

Bear, I don't think McCain will do it directly, but I do predict that the concern will be raised by his campaign and Obama's camp will respond as I suggested. So waht's the bet gonna be? Starbucks?

Well, I gotta go. If it's Tuesday, there must be a swim meet to go to.

ET: That was in a very different era, and remember, the press, out of respect, actually kept his physical ailments out of the media. In this image-centric, spectacle-oriented political world, you need to be able to be on the go 24/7.

Patsi

"But I'd match my mother's brain at 83 against yours, Utopia...."

What is it with you southern women. My former boss has a mother in her 70s and a grandmother in her 90s. The mother runs her own rather extensive business and takes a break in the middle of the day to join her mother for their exercise class at the gym. Grandmother drives her car over for the appointment.
Her one an only concession is that she doesn't drive at night and this necessity really ticks her off. : )

I agree that just because your old, doesn't mean your toast. My Dad is older than McCain and if you gave him 2 wrenches, some duct tape, a piece of glass and tin foil, I'm convinced could make a TV in 15 minutes.

Hell, my great aunt was 2 months shy of her date with Willard when she died and she still had 20/20 eye sight...and this was 4 years after a stroke...

Pogo, figure out how I can sue God for getting screwed in the DNA dept. since I'm blind as a bat and it takes me 8 hours to hang a door...

"Barack Obama aide: Why Winnie the Pooh should shape US foreign policy"

Posted by: Whiskey Jack

Right on, my right arm (about 4 inches above my hand) has a tattoo of Winnie the Pooh being lifted by a balloon. Had it done on a whim in 1996. Stupid place to put it, and was I ever embarrassed when I stood in line at Albertsons one evening and this little kid looked at my arm and started dancing and singing 'winnie the pooh. winnie the pooh" while pointing at my arm. I was thinking "shut up kid"... LOL

anonymous: the point is that you cited a poll from *Kansas* - not exactly representative of the country, dude.

What do you think is reprsentative of the country.

The National Polls mirror it and 50% think Obama is inexperienced.

Supposedly because Obama's mother is from Kansas he is supposed to do well there. More kookaid from the campaign

Ok, all, it's been fun. I've got to go off and do some work. Take care!

Sure, run off when I discuss my tattoo ;-)

Bear

I wrote about the DNA sweepstakes last week

http://jdurward.blogspot.com/2008/05/meet-me-in-dreamland.html

it's 11 pm, I'm gonna be wasted tomorrow. Good evening to all and to all a good night...

Baby Boy Baby Girl

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1HIpuyr6pj0

"then they have nobody but themselves to blame when they start to lose well-earned women's rights. "

Still trying to beat up women with those threats? I've seen almost NO support for women's issues on the blogger boyz netroots.

Here's what I truly believe -- most of the so-called left would sell women down the river in a heartbeat for any power they could grab.

Your BS makes about as much sense as the old Salt II junkthought.

Here's my contribution for today. In light of the earlier discussion a) not safe for the workplace and b) not in front of children either. I'm only linking to it, not saying it.

http://www.eschatonblog.com/2008_06_15_archive.html#4525437239028207475

there's an online poll on mediabistro where you can vote for a Meet the Press successor (or add your own suggestion): http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/nbc/the_big_decision_87355.asp

I voted for Gwen Ifill

i voted for Brokow but also cast a write-in: Craig

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/nbc/the_big_decision_87355.asp

KGC,

True or not that is the funniest thing I've seen in a while...

Potential worst person of the world here?

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jun/13/army-recruit-dumbfounded-renters-refusal-void-his-/?imw=Y

i voted for Brokow but also cast a write-in: Craig

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/nbc/the_big_decision_87355.asp

Great idea.

Bear

Three reporters from Arizona, on the condition of anonymity, also let me in on another incident involving McCain's intemperateness. In his 1992 Senate bid, McCain was joined on the campaign trail by his wife, Cindy, as well as campaign aide Doug Cole and consultant Wes Gullett. At one point, Cindy playfully twirled McCain's hair and said, "You're getting a little thin up there." McCain's face reddened, and he responded, "At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you cunt." McCain's excuse was that it had been a long day. If elected president of the United States, McCain would have many long days. [The Real McCain, PoliPoint Press, 2008.]

I think the video is great. If the mock apple ad was a turning point in the primary campaign this could do it for the general. I especially liked the reporter's blooper.

This one rate an Oh Damn! Even if she was 86.

Cyd Charisse has passed away.

http://www.comcast.net/articles/entertainment/20080617/Obit.Charisse/

Silk Stockings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rvbS5LJND8&feature=related

Posted by: Maxtrue | June 17, 2008 6:08 PM

I think it was EdVB who said
now I have to stab out my mind's eye.
That's an image I could have done without.

KGC

I don't think I've said this.
Welcome Back!
You are on a roll this evening. BTW, that video should have a warning about drinking while viewing. I damn near drowned and I may have ruined the keyboard.

Jack

KGC...that's been quoted here quite frequently....

On crossing the lines

http://stubbornfacts.us/politics/2008_election/crossing_lines

So Obama rehires failed Clinton aids, moves the DNC to Chicago, tells the GOP they have no standing regarding OBL and goes on about his religion at a new Church as his half brother essentially says Obama is lying about his past. This doesn't even scratch the very liberal stuff.

So KGC, here's another: guess who is scractching his very liberal stuff?...LOL

Danger Barry Obama! Danger Barry Obama

'Danger Signs' as Clinton Supporters Resist Obama
Democratic Candidate Leads but Still Struggles to Win Over Key Groups
By JAKE TAPPER
June 17, 2008
Sen. Barack Obama has emerged from his bruising battle for the Democratic presidential nomination with only a six point lead over Sen. John McCain and claiming his Republican rival has been getting a "pass" from the media.

Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., holds a slight lead over Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., in the latest ABC News/Washington Post poll but there are danger signs for the presumptive Democratic nominee as he struggles to win over whites, women, and some Clinton supporters.
( ABC News/Washington Post poll shows Obama, D-Ill., leading McCain, R-Ariz., by a margin of 48 percent to 42 percent. It is a surprisingly small lead considering that the incumbent Republican president George Bush is at record lows and public opinion overwhelmingly feels the country is on the "wrong track".
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/story?id=5183218&page=1

Obama complaining about the media. I am shocked.
Didn't the Obama supporters spend the primary season telling people to suck it up about the media coverage. McCain is the media darling now.

"My Dad is older than McCain and if you gave him 2 wrenches, some duct tape, a piece of glass and tin foil, I'm convinced could make a TV in 15 minutes. "

Ha! I support Bear's dad for president! Sounds like he's a better problem solver than most in Washington.

If you haven't been reading the McClatchy series on Guantanamo, you need to.

"Guantanamo became a school for jihad, complete with a council of elders who issued fatwas, binding religious instructions, to the other detainees"

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/

Jack

soooo....did i miss anything?

"In a piece Russert contributed to Oprah Winfrey's Web site, he wrote about his son, Luke, "I pray that I've taught him to make good decisions and given him strong moral grounding to do the right thing. Because, ever since August 22, 1985, at 7:11 p.m., I've known that when my life is over, there's nothing more I'll be judged on than what kind of father I was."

Very cool statement from Russert.

ha......russert felt just like i did........kinda fadda you is are what makes you what you've been.......

Travis Tritt - Modern Day Bonnie and Clyde (live)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMg3X8I3HxU

Jack

but of course russert punked out at 58.................bad age to die..........I mean, even the bible says you get 3 score and ten......russert was robbed......

maybe he worked too hard.............

Sturge

Is there any good age to die?

Too close to my age is what I'm thinking.

Jack

he, like fred allen, had the best medical care that money can buy and he was zip zap zoom and outa the room......deaf come lakka teef inna night.......

take heed, you heathens.........

jack....well, the best age to die is someone else's ........other than that it's YOU.......

If you look around the table and cannot spot the mark......the mark is YOU.

--Sock-eye, of Myrtle Beach

cyd charisse, like juliet prowse......had the gams......

I Saw The Light
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32tcvdd4SCI

Jack

my only other Sock-eye quote.....

You have to take ALL the scent off the trap.

--sock-eye, the gambler

A great story from Bill Walton...

That's a lot of love, Bill. But is there a moment that comes to mind that encapsulates the NBA's greatest rivalry?
I'd go back to my very first Lakers-Celtics game, an exhibition game in the fall of '85. The Lakers had just beaten the Celtics that June, and on the opening tip, a fight broke out, and everyone was involved. Both benches, the coaches, the media, the fans, everybody. And I look over, and I see our great coach KC Jones—the coach most like John Wooden that I've ever played for—kneeling on Michael Cooper's chest. He's got Michael's shoulders pinned-back, and he's just pummeling Michael in the face. Now, Michael never cut his fingernails—which used to upset us because he'd scratch us up—so Michael is cat fighting with KC, trying to get him off, and KC is just pounding him. Finally, the fight breaks up, and everybody goes back to the benches and KC Jones, our brilliant leader—who has blood on his shirt, scratches all over his face, tie totally disheveled—looks at me, gives me a big right-handed fist-pump, and says: "I love this game."

bear.....that sounds kindof like a bar fight.......sort of, kinda........

Enjoyed reading the posts today. Good stuff.

Nick, sorry to see you got ganged up on again today.

When Obama Is Off the Teleprompter
"It is clear Obama’s path to victory is through the teleprompter. Let him give a big speech and he drives it like Tiger Woods hitting a fairway, as he did Sunday with his stunning sermon about the importance of fathers. But let him sit for an interview with a well-prepared reporter who isn’t interested in shilling for him and Obama makes mistake after mistake."
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/jpodhoretz/11931

Cyd Charisse was my favorite paper doll when I was a kid.

Dirty car art
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2138857/Dirty-car-art.html

Jack

I've always made it a point to have a guitar or a piano between me and the nearest bar fight......but now and then along the way there were times when I had to ruin a perfectly good guitar to keep the barbarians from the gate......it's hard to swing a piano but a well aimed guitar, a la El Kabong, can decide many a contest......

maybe yall heard the famous story about Hank Sr on a war bond train broke a guitar over milton berle's head and laid him cold.......

Hank Williams Sr - Long Gone Lonesome Blues

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JczEyQHBLEw

jack.....put up some luke the drifter.......

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/41329.html

"If the detainee dies you're doing it wrong,"

I would guess so.

am I getting numb to this shit?

Jack

luke

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULpsAXZT9G8&feature=related

At the Cross
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHj3yFDrQTc

luke

the prodigal son

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_2wEcn8a20&feature=related

Some names for your war criminal list

".....................included Lt. Col. Jerald Phifer, who was in charge of Guantanamo's Joint Task Force 170, and Lt. Col. Diane Beaver, who was Task Force 170's legal officer.
The officials who had visited Guantanamo the week before were David Addington, counsel to Vice President Dick Cheney; William Haynes, the Pentagon’s top lawyer; acting CIA counsel John Rizzo; and Michael Chertoff, head of the Justice Department's Criminal Division, and now President Bush's Homeland Security secretary................"

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/41329.html

Jack

I figger....you youngaristas keep at it .....you just might arrive at the level of shit we arrived at in the sixties......doubtful, since you dont have as much at stake, but then it was a different world back then.....

"you're all a buncha poosies......"
--drunken native american challenging the room in taos, 1981

Split the ticket and save the Democrats.

Posted by: Maxtrue | June 17, 2008 5:48 PM

I know a way to split the ticket....

And Obama's veep is ...

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/06/17/hagel_veep/

also a much maligned baby boomer who clearly took part in changing the goddam world......so what did you do?" or better yet.....what are your plans?

Sturge
The Luke the drifter story is interesting. What a talent. He could have 2 musical carriers at once.

Jack

Hagel has a worse voting record on women's issues than McCain. Except for the Iraq War, he is more conservative than McCain.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 at 07:17:17 PM PDT
What's up with all this praise for Chuck Hagel? Yes, he's saying things that sound good on TV, and I supposed that puts him above Jeff Sessions, Jon Kyl, James Inhofe and a few other Senators.

But that's no reason to ignore his awful, awful voting record.

DemocraticLuntz's diary :: ::
His voting record on Iraq started out terribly from the beginning with his votes on the Iraq War Resolution. Robert Byrd's amendment to limit the time for the authorization to be in effect (30 Dems and Chafee voted YEA), against Levin's amendment to require a UN resolution for the authorization to take effect, against Byrd's amendment to make it clear that the authority was limited to Iraq (13 Dems and Specter voted YEA), against Durbin's amendment to limit the authorization to an imminent threat rather than an existing threat (30 Democrats voted YEA), for cloture on the Lieberman amendment and for the war.

Since then, it's only gotten worse.

In fact, it's worse than John McCain's.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/1/16/185310/186

I told you it was a split ticket....

And Anonymous, why keep the same alias as others. Why not invent yourself for the rest of us to recognise as a regular and not "One of Those" ;0)

Become Anon-Not Paranoid.

Willie Nelson and Merle Haggard...Pancho and Lefty

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxzJAF1BxP4

Hagel has a terrible record on women's issues.
Hagel would be a horrible choice. He would bring nothing to the table.

My votes:

MTP: Gwen Ifill

Dirty Car Art: Dogs Playing Poker

Of course the honey moon will last all of two seconds because there will be a large percentage of the electorate who feel disenfranchised and an even larger idealistic one expecting miracles, so he had better have one hell of a good cabinet and something to show for it in the first 90 days.

Well to set the record straight,

I am torn between Edwards and Biden for my favorite VEEP NOM.

well....It's not like what i want will be, but i couldalmost wish for a republican win just to put his panties in a bunch.....

almost.

Hey Sheila, let's have something to agree about: Biden

Hey Jamie,

I'm there!

Jack you dog.,...I am now addicted to your YouTubes. I even check out some of the "suggestions" on the page, like "...the jumpin' honky tonk blues..."

And you are not off the YouTube hook either, sturge....

Didn't take anything back, just added a future prediction on top of it. : )

Judy Woodruff for MTP.We need to break the glass ceiling somewhere!

Ruth

I put up a you tube clip of Cyd Charisse dancing with Fred Astaire on my blog

Cyd

rats

forget don't need code

http://jdurward.blogspot.com

Ruth

Judy Woodruff is a good idea but she is CNN. Gwen Ifill got a vote from me ... break down two ceilings at once.

Even though I love Woodruf, I don't believe she is as decisive as I have seen Ifill in her questioning. Ifills ability to peel away the layers is great!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/battles-loom-in-vp-madness.html#comment-103844

So...sturg...I was gonna say NO...but then this happened...

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/battles-loom-in-vp-madness.html#comment-103884

You guys be careful...you're scaring me!!!

"Pancho and Lefty"

Ah...Townes....Jack and Sturge....go immediately to amazon and get a copy of Jonelle Mosser singing "About Townes" -- this is a collection of Townes's demos she sang, mainly at Jack Clement's studio, and the bootlegged tape became such a high priority in Twangtown that it was released on CD. Jonelle is a MONSTER talent.

Harbor,

The jamie post was amazing....and very note worthy in its diplomacy

We'd better call FEMA and warn them about that landslide that is coming in November.

We'd better call FEMA and warn them about that landslide that is coming in November.

Posted by: Corey | June 17, 2008 8:42 PM

Is FEMA a new Beer?....I for one would have a few in celebration if there was a landslide.

It's not beer , Sheila. It's Kool-Aid. LOL!

David Gregory is not a good choice if MTP wants to keep its neutral stance in questioning.....and then there is the depth in research. I don't think Gregory is ready yet.

It not Ifill, Chuck Todd. A brilliant up and comer.

The article I posted this morning talked about how Obama talked about how unfair NAFTA was yesterday afternoon , but he softened his rhetoric last night when Gore appeared with him. Gore passionately defended NAFTA in 1993.

In case you didn't go past the poll on Media Bistro, there is a pros and cons blog on about 30 of the rumored replacements for MTP

http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlDC/television/replacing_russert_87296.asp

BTW , I hear ya talkin' , Sturge. It would be funny to see that.

Most of min have been pretty good except that I still think Clinton go robbed. : )

Corey,

All the more reason to vote Obama. He's not Gore. ;0)
Even Gore knows that, the reason why he is endorsing him.

Ellen for MTP : )

---A mensch literally means "a person" in Yiddish, but figuratively it means something much deeper. A mensch is a person with whom you would be happy to befriend and associate with, because you feel genuine in a mensch's presence.

I had to look that up, since I do not know Yiddish

Corey
The Gore endorsement barely made the news in Cal.
Was there a lot of coverage in Michigan? Did you think it was a speech/event for local consumption or national talk.
Thanks
and not beer koolaid for FEMA ..very good.

Craig really needs to go to that event. We need a fly on the wall

As part of the effort, Mantz wrote, the Clinton campaign is encourage its supporters to contribute $2,300 to Obama's campaign.

The event will be held at the Mayflower Hotel.

Well time to Make the Donuts.

Later!

Well , Gore was there last night. 20,000 people came to see Obama in Detroit. 1.4 million people came to see the Red Wings at their parade. Sheila , bashing Gore? Oh man......be very afraid.

Kinky Friedman on Abrams panel now.

Yesterday's event was just supposed to be a Michelle Obama appearance and then Barack decided to join her. He seems to be worried about Michigan. That's why he's been here 3 times lately.

I didn't bash my main man. But his 1993 Nafta vote IS Pre-9/11 and not relevent anymore. I'm sure everyone understands that NAFTA needs to be pulled back to a better strategy.

Hows this for ya Corey! GORE 2012!!! lol

Corey

Was the media coverage good for Obama. Do you think the attention in Michigan is having an impact?

yesterday it was posted that there would not be a roll call for Clinton.How can it be stopped and when called on to place a name in nomination ,why couldn't all the states that Hillary won stand up and say "the state of New York places all their electoral votes For Hillary Clinton"etc.,etc.,.They are under no obligation to vote for Obama.And if all the states she won vote entirely for her she would have the most delegates.
Ok,I know,I'm way out there with this,but I can dream can't I.

Ruth

The Detroit Free Press said that Obama mainly talked about the economy because he figured it was important here. Here are a few links for you , KGC:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080617/COL06/806170389/0/MULTI

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080617/COL33/806170325/0/MULTI

It has been said that Gore won't run again because he knows his limitations. Whatever that means.

Running in>>>>

Hey if Ruth and Dream, So can Chef Sheila>>>>>>

Thanks Corey.

Corey

The articles present two competing views of the event.
Thanks for finding me two completely different stories.

Fair and Balanced , KGC. LOL! Off to work!

Can't stay long. Just letting those who were here last night know that the International Committee of New Languages has unanimously rejected my proposed new language. I'll get over it, I suppose.

Their specific points, as spelled out in the rejection letter:

--"Consonant-to-vowel ratio, way too high, don't you think?"
--"Were you drunk? This looked a lot like typical Martini speak that we often get with late-night applications for new languages."
--"Did you, perchance, give your dog access to the keyboard while filling out your application?"

Well, since I had to agree that the answers to two out of those three questions was yes, I respectully withdrew my application. But I continue to vehemently deny the third allegation. Preposterous, I say! I'll see them in court!

Anyway, I'm back. In Total English.

Meanwhile, James Joyce is still dead.

And Chopper says: "Khekk! Khekk! Hannk! Jamsk!!"

For all the Ann Coulter fans:

Sign up today and be among the first to get her controversial column. Each Wednesday, we'll send you Ann's column as soon as its available.

http://www.humanevents.com/offers/offer.php?f=2&id=HEO101

jeeze Gordo is not even pretending he is a democrat anymore

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Sturge
You better quit insulting the poor little troll, or he will get his big sisters to beat you up.
LOL

Jack

Isn't mentioning Coulter akin to mentioning Hitler? Isn't there an internet rule about that?

Gee Thanks for spoiling the evening Jack....

What a......

I'll tell you what. Give me a good heads up, say and hour head start and I'll move on so you can do your thing....

Good night.

Patsi,
I always view Ann Coulter as an intellegence test. That even includes the leftwingers that were all excited about her supporting HRC.

Jack

Lardo

Tell the society I'm not giving up Jamsk ... she could come in handy at some point should all the siamese personalities decide to split. I'll put it in the drawer with Jamela for safekeeping.

Is anyone missing any parts?

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-world-canada/20080617/Canada.Mystery.Feet/

Hey all, back in the saddle.

Am guessing that Russert had probably discussed his successor with the bigwigs and colleagues don't you think?

I'm still out on who I'd like to see fill his shoes. A tough woman with excellent interviewing experience and skills would be a refreshing take for the next generation of viewers.

"Liberalism is back in, my side wins! And winning is great. "

Hilarious. Neither you nor your posse is liberal. Mostly what you are is a crowd of folks who hoped to win at something -- anything -- somewhere down the line. If that means trashing women, real democrats, older people or the working class -- who gives a crap. Keep on living in your own little basements, or with your parents...that's what the party is now about.

gwen ifill for mtp

Patsi
You had better watch that youtube addiction. It can be powerful.

Jack

Patd

Gwen would be great at the old style meet the press. But they don't do that any more. You gotta be an entertainer. Think of it as a sports announcers job. Gwen is a great playbyplay man but they are looking for a color man. That is what Russert was. He was the John Madden of Sunday morning news.

Jack

Sorry , just catching up on the past couple issues floating around.

Why, all the blame dumped on PSD for the campaign. I think Penn and Wolfson should take the fall instead of her. Where are the women coming to Solis' defense?

Patsi ---------------

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The first question should be," who WANTS to be his veep?"
I think that would narrow the field considerably. Quite a few have already said "No way!"

Jack,

I haven't dserved that slams you dole out....have never mentioned you. Actually, I've tried to be civil.

Now if you want to be an overbearing blowhard old creep then please by all means. Its a free country.

Just let me know your in the room from now on and I'll let you have the floor.

Your nothing but a big bully and for all you keep saying, you are calling the kettle black.

Don't ever refer to me again. I just don't deserve your anger.....

"Georgia?"

Such a short memory, it was only yesterday

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/06/so-long-tim.html#comment-103041

LOL
But then you do throw a lot of crap against the wall.

Jack

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