Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Hi kids! *waves* Thought this might bring some much-needed lolz here.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/22/and-paul-begala-for-vice-president/

OMG, how rude of me. VERY cute video, Craig!

Nice video, Craig. Have to ask, when will the June version start? Will we have one version or two?

Sturge and other South Carolinians. We have two representatives on the Rules Committee (the Fowlers). I did email our state executive asking him to read and then forward my comments to them. FWIW the male half is supporting Mrs Clinton, and the female, Mr Obama.

Things must be real comfy in their household--something like Carville and Matalin.

Excellent video! The Craig that Craig interviewed...he's the one that goes on Imus, right?...and the interviewer-Craig, he's the one that goes on with Morning Joe. OK, got that cleared up!
Or is it vice-versa?

I hope McCain picks Huckabee...I haven't had enough of Mrs. Huck yet...won't Cindy and Mrs. Huckabee make a great set of book-ends?

craig crawford number two: what do ya spoze THESE two guys are talking about?

http://progressiveboink.com/kyle/images/election/huckabee.jpg

not really Dex.
http://arkjournal.com/uploaded_images/Janet-771692.jpg

According to Anderson Cooper, Huckabee WAS invited to the McCain party but declined because he was already booked on an anniversary cruise with his wife of 33 years.

"anniversary cruise with his wife of 33 years"

At least he has his priorities straight.

Hi Craig,

"Huck CQ's VP" is a great satirical video. Please, can we have more like
this?

How about a mock-up of a typical CNN panel pundit-sizing about
McCain, Obama and Hillary with Craig Crawford as the host. Maybe
Trail Mix bloggers could even send in some of the questions.

Craig,

I have question for Wolf Blitzer. I understand you had Mr Castellanos on your show recently and he called Senator Clinton a B****. As well as Jack, your shows sidekick. Why do you let them get away denigrating a distinquished Senator?

Julie

Julie -- It's pretty amazing, isn't it? What I think has happened during this campaign is that we've seen the depth of misogyny in this society. Because of Hillary's having been so demonized and "framed" (as in Lakoff's usage) by the language, it became very easy to use her candidacy to slide general sexist thoughts across the landscape. The words used to describe her are, in fact, those they have used against women in general: manipulative, sly, cunning, shrill, hysterical, desperate, duplicitous, conniving.

It especially helped that race was an issue, because the worst offenders along gender lines could fall back on charging racism.

And while this piling on happened, the silence from the male powers of the Democratic party was deafening.

An ugly secret has been exposed. And that knowledge -- far more than whether Hillary Clinton is the eventual candidate -- is what will cause a rift in our party. Even women who don't support Hillary have seen it, and been offended. I see that more among Republican women than in Obama supporters. My Republican sister was a Hillary supporter. Many of her friends were not. But they are furious about what they hear on television.

I can't even imagine what they'd say if they were "blog readers" -- where just in the last couple of days I have seen Hillary Clinton called a whore by Obama backers on at least three occasions.

What the O-team doesn't understand is that the talk of "healing," comments like "you'll come home because where else would you go?" -- and threats about Roe are even more offensive because they are not only condescending but a blatant effort to intimidate.

Craig,

Can't start a day without you anymore.
Who needs MSNBC. Not me.

Quipping before thinking - love it.

The only other mis-step I remember from Huckabee
was when he said he put possum in a pop corn popper
and ate it.

I especially enjoyed your take on exit polls and pundits.

You always make me feel so much better

Thanks

Craig...nice video...very clever!!

The little Craig Crawford, on the table, is too cute!!

Is that a bobblehead?

"manipulative, sly, cunning, shrill, hysterical, desperate, duplicitous, conniving." Posted by: Patsi Author Profile Page | May 23, 2008 5:33 AM

Patsi,

It is so strange that everyone was so quick to condemn what they saw as racism, while overlooking all the other types of prejudice out there. Either you agree that ANY kind of prejudice is wrong or you don't. You don't pick and choose which inflammatory words and views are acceptable and which are not (unless your're a cable network station, of course). You reject them all.

The most concerning part is those who are most prejudice consider their feelings fact, not opinion. And how can you argue with facts.

The Absurdity of Meeting the Enemy
"Another unmistakable sign is when a presidential candidate makes a gaffe, then, realizing it is too egregious to take back without suffering humiliation, decides to make it a centerpiece of his foreign policy"
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/post_40.html

The Detroit Pistons won in Boston last night! Boston was undefeated at home in the playoffs before last night. I'll bet they were counting on winning every home game in the playoffs and figured they wouldn't have to win a game on the road in order to win the NBA title. Well , now they have to! Correct me if I'm wrong , but they're 0-6 on the road in the playoffs so far and 3 of the next 4 games are in Detroit! Stick a fork in them , the Celtics are done! How sweet it is! *Does happy dance*

Oh , and Renee....I am kidding. LOL! Just trying out some early morning impressions. Nice to see Ray Allen have a good game last night.

Patsi and Meg,

Great posts. Of course, I agree completely with your sentiments.

The press never even mentioned the people carrying signs at
Clinton rallies that stated, "Iron My Shirts."
Can you imagine if someone carried a sign like that at an Obama event?

When Obama bloggers accuse me of being a sore loser, having a tantrum
because "your girl didn't win," I tell them that my feelings about Obama
aren't just about the man, but also have to do with the misogyny that was cultivated by Camp Obama, Obama surrogates and the DNC during this election.

I'm ashamed of the DNC and don't feel the Party deserves my vote
or my membership, at this time.

The fact the DNC and Howard Dean allowed the mess in Florida and Michigan to disenfranchise millions of voters is in itself disgraceful.

Also, Camp Obama and the DNC took over the media and demonized a President and a former first lady for no other reason than for political gain. Obama supporter's disgusting attempts to turn Bill and Hillary Clinton into racists is another reason that the Democratic Party has not earned my vote this year.

I haven't left the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party left me.

In case anyone wants to relieve some stress...

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080522/MULTI/80522108/1048/SPORTS

Wow, talking to yourself goes hi-tech. Very cool. Loved the bit on Hardball where it turns out that Hill'ry would be the most capable veep...and ended up making the point that she would actually be the most capable prez.

It seems all the pundits are experiencing VP madness these days.

Why aren't the great-wise-all-knowing pundi not speculating about
who Hillary Clinton might ask to be her running mate?After all, in case I'm
not mistaken, isn't Hillary near winning the popular vote? Isn't she still in the race?

Here's one of my picks for Hillary's VP:
Ed Randell

Another VP possibility for Hillary: Harold Ford Jr.

"Minds That Move The World"

http://www.radiocity.com/speakerseries/?s7985c21212212o46189t8011n35043e

Presidents Clinton & Gore, I understand, but Fluffy Carlson? ...whose show I actually miss for some reason.

Craig....
LOVE the video!....
heard some VP talk on the Diane Rehm Show this past week..... her panel all agreed that Huckabee would be a disastrous pick for McCain....

I used to consider myself a Democrat..... I registered as one when I first registered to vote in Massachusetts back in 1972...... when I moved to NH and became an election official, I reregistered as an independent..... 99% of election officials in NH do it.... we pride ourselves in running clean elections....

I retired in 2006 when I decided not to go up for re-election.... after 24 yrs, I'd had enough..... at that point, I was going to reregister as a Democrat..... but something in my gut stopped me..... I decided to remain an independent and see what developed in the upcoming presidential race....

my gut feelings have always served me well over the years.... and I can see they didn't fail me with regard to this issue..... I can't ever imagine myself reregistering as a Democrat now...... being a proud independent is now in my blood....

CNN say's it has breaking news in about 20 mins. that Clinton and Obama campaigns may be reaching a deal for her to end her campaign......

McCain and Hagee have rejected each other eh?

dueling rejections.

Ah Craig and Craig,

The truth is now out. We always suspected that there must be more than one of you considering your writing schedule, TV Punditry, blog appearance, Appletini Testing, and Tree Impact Supervisior. Toby just thought it was simpler to name you Craig, Craig, and your other brother Craig.

Will we have a 2 Dem VP Sweepstakes in June and a third in August once we actually know the nominee?

Jack...I just picked up your Kansas City post from last night.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/05/state-dispute-imperils-dem-end.html#comment-87316

So much commonality here -- the area where you live is very familiar to me. I used to stop into Teresa's for burgers during summers when I worked for the KCS railroad...did a lot of jobs on the stretch of track through the Blue River bottoms. Your wife's family's no-tell-motel is a stone's throw from the house where my mom grew up...and the big green Jesus landing pad. Remember when the Mormon's built their twisty spire right next door? We all used to joke that we hoped Jesus didn't miss the dome...or he'd have a pretty painful landing. I'm a proud Van Horn High grad.

1985 World Series...I got to attend Game 2 as a fan, and got to cover Game 7 as a crowd reporter. I remember after it was over, walking through the tunnel and seeing George Brett waiting for postgame interviews...then walking out onto the field and clear out into center field just so I could say I touched the center field wall that day. I also popped into the grounds crew cave out in right field...where I knocked on a door and was greeted by a half-drunk, half naked George Toma...who was celebrating the win. He was definitely in the mood for an interview.

Anyway...all good memories and thanks for filling in all the blanks. I hope I bought a beer from you at some point.

Corey.....
your Pistons played a great game...... Congrats!

hey remember I told Pogo a few days ago that I was nervous about this series...

I've never been into basketball before these playoffs..... I'm having fun learning the game..... no matter who wins.... I'm enjoying it....

Lardass.... no, no, no, no, no...... I would never root "against" your Royals....
I'm rooting "for" my beloved Red Sox....
there's only one team any self respecting Red Sox fan roots "against".... and you know which one it is...... (sorry EdVB)....

Meg,

How could that possibly be true? David Axelrod was just on MSNBC saying absolutely no conversations were taking place between the two campaigns.

He wouldn't lie now would he?

Craig....really hilarious video. You're reaching new heights. Building on Prof Marcia's suggestion for a mock TV news panel, I suggest that all the panel members be played by Craig as well.

There could be the host "Craig", a poll-analyst "Craig", a Obama-drooler Craig, a Pat Buchanan psycho "Craig" and maybe even a "Craig Craig." And they could all argue with each other and talk over one another.

From USA Today

Quinnipiac's numbers:

• Florida: Clinton tops McCain 48%-41%; McCain leads Obama 45%-41%.
• Ohio: Clinton beats McCain 48%-41%; McCain tops Obama 44%-40%.
• Pennsylvania: Clinton tops McCain 50%-37%; Obama leads McCain 46%-40%.

The methodology:

• 1,419 Florida voters; margin of error of +/- 2.6 percentage points.
• 1,244 Ohio voters; margin of error of +/- 2.8 percentage points.
• 1,667 Pennsylvania voters; margin of error of +/- 2.4 percentage points.

The surveys were done from May 13-20.

Ha-ha Renee...truce accepted!

Nick...I remember the first time I ever heard the word "picaresque." It had to do with Huckleberry Finn....required reading in most, if not all, Missouri high schools. I'm glad it made "word-of-the-week!"

I'm ashamed of the DNC and don't feel the Party deserves my vote or my membership, at this time. Posted by: prof marcia

Marcia,
it's progressed to the point now that I pretty much direct all my dissatisfaction and disillusion toward the DNC. I don't really direct it at Obama anymore, although, for many reasons, I will never vote for him. I've begun to view him as a pawn.

http://vbonnaire.wordpress.com/2008/03/13/there-will-be-backlash-barack-obama-when-you-attempt-to-squelch-womens-voices/

LardassLiberal,

I love your suggestion about Craig as a CNN Wolf Blitzer-like commentator
interviewing Craig as each member of the panel. Let's convince Craig to
do this. He could pull it off.

Meg,

I heard the same headline you did on CNN that the Clinton and Obama
campaigns were working on a deal for Hillary to leave the race.

But, five minutes before that I heard Darth Axelrod on MSNBC saying
there were absolutely no conversations between the two campaigns.

Question: Is Eugene Robinson introduced as an Obama supporter when he does MSNBC panels? I usually only see him listed as an MSNBC Political Analyst or Contributer.

"Clinton knows that even the disputed delegates she "won" in Florida and Michigan won't get her to the magic number she needs to win the nomination. Some commentators have speculated that she wants to have the votes counted simply so that she can semi-plausibly claim to have had more popular support than Obama, a distinction that would serve her well if she ran again in four or eight years. I say dream on; the Clintons don't do moral victories."

Robinson's opinion column is always so vitriolic toward the Clintons and yet I don't recall ever seeing him introduced on MSNBC as an Obama supporter (add to that list Rachel Maddow.) How is this possible?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/22/AR2008052203018.html?hpid=opinionsbox1?hpid=opinionsbox1

Posted by: Nick | May 23, 2008 8:15 AM

Nick, thanks for those 2 links.

the general electric network does what it has to do to get the job done.......talk about no moral victories......

He wouldn't lie now would he?
Posted by: Jamie

Jamie,

very funny.
I guess in politics, just as life, "Nothing is what it seems".

Question: Is Eugene Robinson introduced as an Obama supporter when he does MSNBC panels? I usually only see him listed as an MSNBC Political Analyst or Contributer.
Posted by: Ally Author Profile Page | May 23, 2008 8:45 AM

Ally,
I think MSNBC thinks we will assume he's a Obama supporter, since they don't allow anything else on that network.
No credibility!

I recommend boycott of all GE products and all NBC advertisers. We've already started. Haven't watched NBC/MSNBC for weeks. Also changed our home page on internet away from MSN. Believe me I know first-hand that the most effective place to hit GE is in the wallet.

the general electric network does what it has to do to get the job done.......talk about no moral victories......
Posted by: sturgeone |

The awareness level of the people on this site has ridded me of most of my anger, and I arrived with a great deal.
Great therapy. Thanks all.

Meg,

Wow! I can't believe your post. Great minds. . .

Here's a post I just typed.

Eugene Robinson on MSNBC bothers me. He's so in love with Obama
it oozes from him like gooey kisses. Robinson can barely utter a word
without his lips praising Obama as if in prayer. His snide attacks on Hillary
have become legendary. Yet, MSNBC never discloses Eugene Robinson
is Obama's frontman. The audience is to accept that Mr. Robinson is
merely a nonpartician political analyst, simply a journalist for the Washington
Post. This type of sly manipulation of news has become a prominent and dangerous hallmark of campaign 2008 as propaganda substitutes for
facts and unsuspecting Americans are duped into a Brave New World.

"Ally,
I think MSNBC thinks we will assume he's a Obama supporter, since they don't allow anything else on that network.
No credibility!"

Ha! Ally -- Sorry to admit that I think Meg is right. There's almost a blockage of anyone but the O-zealots.

The "LBs"

I guess the brass at MSNBC keep Pat B. on because never, in a million gazillion years, did they figure he would turn out to be a cheerleader for Hillary. And they probably figure, like I do, that when you agree with Pat ALL THE TIME you must wonder what bizarro planet we live on—they want us to think we have gone completely nuts. I know this is rambling and doesn't make much sense but I figure all of the other Clintonistas will figure it out because they are kooky like me.

These poll numbers are amazing. Hillary is gaining even though the media and the delegate numbers indidate it's all over. Go back a few days and compare.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Clinton/Maps/May23.html

Obama's numbers show that he and McCain are running neck and neck in a few more states. So McCains numbers have gone down and the Ties went up.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Obama/Maps/May23.html

recommend boycott of all GE products and all NBC advertisers. We've already started. Haven't watched NBC/MSNBC for weeks. Also changed our home page on internet away from MSN. Believe me I know first-hand that the most effective place to hit GE is in the wallet.
Posted by: ky marco

marco, went back an picked up a post with a linke from yesterday:
“A nationwide boycott of MSNBC advertisers will begin tomorrow including Toyota, Nationwide, Geico, Enterprise Car Rental, Lenscrafter, Hotels.com, and Johnson & Johnson.”
http://www.clintonsupporterscounttoo.org/index.html

I have lost faith with MSNBC when they fell all over themselves with Obama and they admitted that at the beginning of the race. When the Bill Ayers story had some play Pat B was talking about it on MSNBC then the next day he was on the Shawn Hannity radio show and Shawn brought it up and Pat acted like it was the first time he ever heard of it. Maybe he had to play it that way based on what management told him to do. Do these people think we are fools and don't listen to other shows.

Is it rude to trash MSNBC if our host works for them?
Will Craig be upset at us?

But, Craig doesn't seem to fit on MSNBC. Whenever he appears on MoJo or Hardball he seems like the only true political analyst not in the tank for anyone.

Craig said once that he stopped voting after he became a political analyst. That's probably the only way a person can remain neutral.

when you agree with Pat ALL THE TIME you must wonder what bizarro planet we live on" Posted by: Ally

Ally, what a strange and unpredictable world we live in. I've learned to admire Pat myself.

I hope I am not being rude the host. My real question is why they simply don't introduce the panels appropriately.

CNN makes such a big production out of introducing Begala and Carville as "Clinton supporters" and yet they have Roland Martin and Donna Brazile on the panel as neutral. Paul Begala has the ability to be just as objective as Donna Brazile (I admit, Carville is pretty biased.) And Tweety had Dee Dee Myers on the other day and introduced her as a Clinton supporter when she has stayed neutral in the race (and, frankly, has been pretty fair when I have seen her.)

Robinson can barely utter a word
without his lips praising Obama as if in prayer". prof marcia

marcia, like so many others, as if in prayer.

regarding Craig and msnbc, of course he is the good guy there. But he's not been there as much as before, has he? At least it seemed so when I was still watching. I don't watch the station anymore, so when I commented on the bias there, Craig was not included in that assessment. Hoped that went without saying.

At least when Craig is on Imus he can talk and not get cut off.

Hillary Clinton - Why it went so wrong
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/05/hillary_clintonwhy_it_went_so.html

CNN makes such a big production out of introducing Begala and Carville as "Clinton supporters" and yet they have Roland Martin and Donna Brazile on the panel as neutral. Paul Begala has the ability to be just as objective as Donna Brazile (I admit, Carville is pretty biased.) And Tweety had Dee Dee Myers on the other day and introduced her as a Clinton supporter when she has stayed neutral in the race (and, frankly, has been pretty fair when I have seen her.) " Ally

Ally, I agree. No consistency.

BrianInNYC - why my day went wrong.

Do you really think Donna has been as objective as Paul has been?

When Paul is on with Jamel, Paul is so much more positive of the whole race than Jamel or Donna.

Do you really think Donna has been as objective as Paul has been?

Posted by: vadaryl | May 23, 2008 9:50 AM

Absolutely not. The opposite actually. The disdain with which Donna speaks of certain constituencies has turned me off, not only to her, but to the party. This is the first time I have ever lived in a flyover state and boy oh boy do you notice the disdain in the media for the middle once you get off the coasts.

Do you really think Donna has been as objective as Paul has been? Posted by: vadaryl

Guess that decides which side you're on.

Jamel did say something the other night about FL and MI that I agree with. Obama this late in the race can't let any door open that could change anything so he can't be in favor of letting FL and MI count. Otherwise Jamel's spin has been rules are rules but he knows deep down if the tables were turned he be pushing for the votes to count.

When Paul is on with Jamel, Paul is so much more positive of the whole race than Jamel or Donna. Posted by: vadaryl

Because of the way they've set things up, Paul has to be in defense mode. (the way I feel when Brians around).

Donna and Jamal have a motive-and that motives obvious: elect Obama.

Thanks Meg. Saw it yesterday and have already sent several emails.

Friends May Seal Clinton's Fate

The most likely deal would seat the full Michigan and Florida delegations but give each delegate half a vote. This would be in line with party rules, and with how Republicans dealt with the two contested states.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/friends_may_seal_clintons_fate.html

Obama this late in the race can't let any door open that could change anything so he can't be in favor of letting FL and MI count." Posted by: vadaryl | May 23, 2008 9:55 AM

As far that argument: the rules are the rules, that annoys me to no end. Telling those people that their votes don't count when you can count them and still grab the nomination, in spite of that, just seems irrational and mean.

I like another rule: "Rules are made to be broken".
I'm sure that will make someone mad.

Jamel is announced as a Obama supporter so you expect him to be positive about Obama and Paul is announced he's a Hillary supporter but he puts a positive spin on the Dem party side too, but Donna is announced as a Superdelegate not a Obama supporter but you know who she is supporting. I can't understand why she is holding out based on what she said the other day. I will support the person with the most delegates, well we knew that weeks ago so why wait. That's the same with all the other supers, this could be over in a few minutes if they just announce.

The most likely deal would seat the full Michigan and Florida delegations but give each delegate half a vote."

That'll make them feel much better. You're half a person folks, Congratulations.

"The awareness level of the people on this site has ridded me of most of my anger, and I arrived with a great deal.
Great therapy. Thanks all."....

Meg.... I've noticed a difference in your tone this last week..... good for you!
anger can be an appropriate reaction..... but too much is unheathly, IMO....
I'm enjoying reading the happier side of you....

I'm reading Pat Buchanan's "Day of Reckoning"..... I don't agree with all of it.... but Pat is a brilliant political analyst..... once again, IMO....

I will support the person with the most delegates" vadaryl

It seems cowardly. She's telling us, like Pelosi has repeatedly, who she's supporting, but bragging about being neutral at the same time.

They're giving us the rationalization before giving us the answer. What a bunch of dummies they must think we are. Promoting their candidate while pretending not to.

oh..... I forgot to mention....

as a long time poster on this site...... we've always trashed the media on Craig's blog and in particular MSNBC.....

if he objects to it..... it's kinda too late.....

and I stopped watching MSNBC months ago..... I got tired of all the blather....

Meg, I am a Hillary supporter and I agree hearing that rules are rules make me mad too. The Dems can fix this by having a revote in both states. Hillary's camp has said they have the funds to pay for it. The reason why I agree with Jamel is based on looking it from his side. It makes sense that you would not want to have any door open that could change things. I don't agree with it but from his point of view it makes sense.

"The Dems can fix this by having a revote in both states. "

They don't want to fix the problem, beccause they know in any revote, Hillary will sweep Florida and MI.

I don't agree with Donna on her way of thinking. A super is there if needed (in this case they are) to vote for the person they think has the best chance of beating McCain not vote for the person who has the most delegates. Now if she thinks Obama is that person, OK, but not say I am voting for the person with the most delegates. I wish they would get on her for saying that.

"Hillary's camp has said they have the funds to pay for it."

Elections are funded by the govt. not private individuals.

Good morning all. I will just post a blanket agreement with almost everything said by almost everybody.
Has anyone still watching MSNBC noticed that Sen McCain is now receiving "the treatment" ... Sen Obama goes on the Senate floor and makes a blatantly political statement, mentioning Sen McCain by name when the man is not even there to respond. An inveterate viewer of C-Span I have not seen this done before except by the infamous Rick Santorum who once called Sen Boxer a killer ... she was in the building at the time, however, and was able to rush to the floor to defend herself.
But every talking head on MSNBC chastises Sen McCain for his response. And not a single Republican is invited on any program to defend Sen McCain.
So...MSNBC has confirmed the nominee and confirmed that they are in his corner.

The video was great !!

Don't you guys ever get tired of trying to figure out how to steal the nomination?

Your candidate agreed in the fall that MI and FL were not to be counted. Just because she's losing doesn't mean you can change it now.

It's over. No only has the fat lady sung, she's back in the dressing room removing her make-up.

I certainly hope that should you all succeed in electing John McCain, that Obama supporters look at this show you are putting on and see how poorly it reflects - that should Obama lose in the end, he does so with grace and without resort to blaming whatever convenient ism lies at hand. You are denigrating Hillary, in my opinion, by reducing her political accomplishments to excuses and finger pointing in order to assuage your (understandable) feelings of loss. Shame.

Huckabee as VP? VP of what?

Does any rational person think the Republicans have a shot this year? (Besides Craig.)

Yeah Nash they don't see the irony of Hillary's latest argument, she's now the one in Florida trying to steal an election.

In 4 years I hope they get rid of the supers, have only primaries, and the person with the most votes wins. Both parties winner takes all. Same way with the national election.

vadaryl: What would be the sense of super delegates if they always and only voted for the candidate with the most pledged delegates?
As I recall (I could be wrong on this), the super delegates were put in place after the McGovern contest, the thought being that, if another candidate as weak as McGovern seemed to be steaming toward the nomination, that those more interested in the health of the party could step in.
All I can say at this point is that, based on the various electoral maps, if the election were held tomorrow the Democrats would once more prove that we know how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

vadarryl -- Let's get rid of weighted delegate apportionment and caucuses without votes. Can't make a state pay for a primary, but at least the Dems can make their caucuses confirm residency requirements and record vote totals ... unless we want to concede that Republicans are more competent than Democrats.

Good morning Brian. It's nice to have at least one non-delusional person here today.

According to Huffingtonpost, Hillary knows she can't win the nomination. The DNC rules committee will NOT hand it to her in a sleazy backroom deal. (Big surprise there.)

NOW she wants to be VP. (And she'll destroy the Democratic party if she doesn't get it.) This is called extortion, just the sort of thing you expect from a Clinton.

Forget the public spin that she's still seeking the nomination; Hillary now wants to be VP.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/23/us/politics/23veep.html?_r=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin

nash: Have you looked at any of the projected electoral maps yet? Currently -- and I concede things may change -- McCain does better than Obama at several sites that are tracking electoral vote projections according to current polling data. So, yes, some rational people do think that McCain can win, even if the down-ticket Republicans are doing poorly.

You are denigrating Hillary, in my opinion, by reducing her political accomplishments to excuses and finger pointing in order to assuage your (understandable) feelings of loss. Shame. Posted by: TP from CT/NC |

TP, If you're worried about finger pointing and excuses, may you should go back a lot further when checking out the blogs. The point of no return to the DNC's handling of this whole process was reached long ago in some of our minds

I know you politicians think we the dumb public have short memories, but I for one won't forget. I remember you from a week or two ago. You're the one popping in and trashing Bill Clinton. You tried to us how he stuck the knife in himself, and took part of the party with him-the the DNC has been innocent in this whole exploitation. Well, include me as one of those people who followed him and Hillary. And there I'll stay.

It's not the Voters in MI/FL fault the party and candidates screwed up. Everyone knows that the person behind would want these votes counted so if the tables were turned Obama would be fighting for them too. Don't forget these voters in November. You need them to win in the national election so I would be careful what you do with them now. In 2000 and 2004 FL played an important rule.

Don't sweat it Nash, the Obama camp has made it clear they have no intention of being strong armed. I think Bill's fight to see her in the VP slot has more to do with him than with her. The idea of not being in the lime light must be driving him right up the wall.

A vote for Obama is a vote for Nash and Brian.

If Obama wants to have some fun, he should offer the VP slot to BILL Clinton. (And the SOB would take it.)

Meg: I couldn't agree with you more. The idea that so many Democrats would stand by and allow the trashing of the only two-term Democrat elected since FDR ... a man who brought us 8 years of relative peace and prosperity, who actually had that national conversation about race relations that Obama talked about ... it is beyond belief.
I take Donna Brazile at her word ... they are building a new coalition and Clinton supporters are not wanted.

Look at those poll numbers, would you be quitting if you still had an outside chance.

Don't sweat it Nash, the Obama camp has made it clear they have no intention of being strong armed."

By a mere 17 million votes, give or take a few, you moron.
woops, there come's the anger.
Ignorance and propaganda always bring it back out.

nash and Brian: It is undoubtedly true that no Democrat can win the Presidency without the support of the majority of the African-American community. It is also true, however, that no Democrat can win without the support of the majority of women voters ... 56% of the population. Not to mention old folks ... who vote in greater numbers in the GE than any other segment of the population.

I take Donna Brazile at her word ... they are building a new coalition and Clinton supporters are not wanted.
Posted by: maggisd

Thank God!

If McCain wins at least he appears to be in good health.

Patsi says at 7:37 pm yesterday on the previous thread:

“Karo -- Just because your relatives are racist, don't tar all of rural America.”

Patsi, I don’t believe racism and bigotry are in all of rural America. Actually, Obama has done quite well in many parts of rural America except for WV, Ohio, and KY. My mother has relatives in WV (with whom I do not associate except for one nice aunt—hell, her front yard is decorated with white elephants in her gardens so you know where she stands). I know many, many people in SE Ohio. Everyone knows everyone. Most think the same. I believe bigotry is deplorable in 2008 and ANY AND EVERYONE should be able to do or be anything they want regardless of their race, religion or gender. But, you can’t think for and change everyone.

Just this morning in The Columbus Dispatch the polls showed that Clinton won over Obama 55% to 29% in SE Ohio. I would say that lack of education is the reason in some of the regions, but to say that discrimination is just in my family due to lack of education would make no sense because of the entire 30-40 of my family in SE Ohio all but about 2 or 3 have advanced degrees. I still believe it is culture. Racism is definitely a part of WV, where there is most certainly a lack of any education among many, but in SE Ohio education doesn’t even make a difference, well except for 29%. Make no mistake…these are good people, but I cannot get over the racism and bigotry that is in abundance, or, what comes out of some of their mouths.

It would be great to just look at issues, but how can you do that with such blindness. And, no, I don’t blame all of the bigotry on the Clintons but they have most certainly propagated it throughout this election. There are some pieces floating around that Bill Clinton actually does not want his wife to win this election because it would take away from his legacy. He does have an ego. You must remember that if he had not said some of the things he did earlier she might be ahead right now as they thought they would be. But, her campaign has not been run like a good business, IMO. Obama has certainly had an uphill battle against many fronts and from other people and overcame them.

Some have commented that I have racism against Clinton. I wouldn’t call it racism but I do have a problem with some women with whom I will not ever work again. I’ve worked WITH too many like Clinton who were condescending bitches (mostly retail). They are smart and they think they must always be in control of everything and you know nothing. They continually fight amongst themselves. I’ve also worked with some very intelligent women who realize that partnering gets more done. One was for a president and CEO of an international elearning company for 5-1/2 years and also at LS&CO (Levi Strauss).

Viv, I’m someone who reads about anything political, both online and in real print! Besides, I would say your bigotry in KY is primarily among those in the eastern part of the state. Correct? The other part is probably McBush. Anyone wanting to see the Dispatch polls can go here. In a few cases I’ve found you must be a subscriber.

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/05/23/battleground_poll.ART_ART_05-23-08_A4_6OA9H63.html?adsec=politics&sid=101 Clintonistas would probably like the poll.

Clinton has had so many gaffs and misstatements. I was someone who supported both of them in the past, but you began to realize what they were after with the NY move…a legacy of Clintons and for her to become the first female president. I still support Obama, but I’m getting to the point where I just don’t care anymore. I’ll vote and support him because I want real change (and don’t really care what that means as long as it is not Bush/Cheney or a Clinton) but whatever!!!!! Besides, the Democrats are out to destroy themselves again this year. Clinton’s condescension towards Obama has not helped, but then he wasn’t supposed to happen to them was he? I won’t address the other comments on here. I still don’t believe this thing is over because it deals with Clintons, and they will DO ANYTHING for power even if it means McBush is president.

Meg, you keep talking about that popular vote count, but have you looked at Obama’s popular vote. They are people as well. The only way she can lead is disregarding rules…rules, something that means nothing to the Clinton’s.

God, I’m beginning to post volumes like Maxtrue, but then I don’t post that much. Leaving to stay with my baby granddaughter today because my daughter’s beautiful husky, Cheyenne, is near the end and going to the vet.

maggisd: Forgive me for the "delusional" remark. You are one of the Clinton supporters who are rational, articulate, and polite. I understand the argument that Clinton would do better than Obama in the general election. It's an arguable point, not a fact.

However, to abandon the established process for this thin rationale would be an unforgivable insult to all those who voted for Obama. It would destroy the Democratic party. Why would anyone vote in one of their primaries again, if they doesn't really count?

Obama does this "coy" thing where he acts like an innocent when he is twisting the knife. Yesterday he gave a speech in Florida about McCain's "Pastor Problem." He said something like this: "and you know, McCain has this problem with his, uh, with Hagee." As if he was going to finish the sentence with "his pastor" but then fills in Hagee. The inference is still there (when you listen to the speech) that Hagee was his pastor.

The problem with MSNBC using Pat B. as the Clinton front person for "balance" is that he has such a reputation as a probable "racist" or at least "cultural conservative".

That means that anyone supporting Sen. Clinton then becomes suspect. You could have been a raging liberal for the past 40 years and disagreed with virtually everything ever said by Buchanan, but now you are just like him because his is the face the network allows the audience to see.

However, to abandon the established process for this thin rationale would be an unforgivable insult to all those who voted for Obama. It would destroy the Democratic party. Why would anyone vote in one of their primaries again, if they doesn't really count?

Posted by: nash | May 23, 2008 10:45 AM

Like the people in Florida and Michigan who have been disenfranchised by no fault of their own?

Meg- I don't know if it was you or someone else who posted yesterday that the vast amount of campaign volunteer work is done by women "of a certain age." Wonder what the volunteer rate will be in this campaign? I've signed up for the local Congressional candidate (he probably hasn't a prayer, unfortunately) but no phone banking, funds, precinct walking for Sen Obama. (Although frankly there is no way he could win this county anyway and even Hillary would be a long shot around here ... although Bill did win this county both times).

nash and Brian: It is undoubtedly true that no Democrat can win the Presidency without the support of the majority of the African-American community. It is also true, however, that no Democrat can win without the support of the majority of women voters" Posted by: maggisd

Doesn't work to try speak logically to "closed minds". Their main joy of existence is to denigrate those who don't agree with us.

Welcome back anger.

maggi,
it wasn't me that posted about campaign volunteer work, but what you say sounds right. Where do you live?

LL

Burgers at Teresa's, that would help explain your name. Teresa's is not known for being grease free.

Tell me , when you look at the RLDS temple don't you want to hum "stairway to heaven"
Here is a picture for the rest of the folks
http://www.f-stop.com/rlds.htm

Busy day , my wife is will be arriving at the airport in a couple of hours. She has spent the week in NY cat herding a bunch of engineers and marketing folks
Gotta clean house and look like I didn't waste all week gabbing on line.

Jack

Jack

maggi: Obama has no worries, he knows that all the "cool" kids with their Che Guevara avatars will hand the election to him.

He's redrawing the electoral map, remember?

You see, Obama thinks that the election is like the entertaining Mac commercials with Mac/PC. In fact, it would seem that Darth Axlerod has made the election about the young, hip, cool vs. the old boring farts. Little wonder the computer/video game crowd has turned out in droves ... but what happens when the next new shiny device comes along? Will the "cool" kids have moved on to something else by November?

The soul of our nation is riding on these choices but unfortunately a lot of this new coaltion lacks the understanding that the election is a not a video game, we just can't hit the reset button if the game has suddenly gone bad.

"I do have a problem with some women with whom I will not ever work again. I’ve worked WITH too many like Clinton who were condescending bitches (mostly retail). "

Okay, Karo -- I get what the problem is.....

vadaryl: Hillary's position was that MI and FL were not to be counted, until until she started to lose. Then, suddenly, she changed her position. And no, I don't think if the situation was reversed, Obama would do the same thing.

That is why people like him. He's NOT like the amoral do-anything-to-win Clintons.

Nash, your understanding of the history of the Democratic Party and politics in general is so lacking, it is comical. I dare you to post some blather at Stubborn Facts. Not a word from you about the more than sleazy deal Obama, Edwards and Dodd engaged in to screw Michigan and Hillary when they saw how well she would do. Yes? ..........no I didn't expect a rebutal.

And the media? Now there is a fine bunch of balanced people;

http://patterico.com/2008/05/23/la-times-gay-marriage-opposed-by-a-very-narrow-19-point-margin/

Big is slight and slight is big....LOL

On Hagee. First he apologized under pressure. Wright did not. Then more stuff surfaced and McCain slammed him down and Hagge retracted his endorsement without calling McCain a liar or a phony...LOL Wright should take a lesson here.

And Obama saying McCain doesn't care about Vets as much as he does? Good luck with that BS. Also, Obama now tells Jews in Florida HE WILL NOT NEGOTIATE WITH HIZB'ALLAH. So what has Obama done to thwart Hamas or Hizb'Allah? Anything? Barak's Pakistan predictions and policies are crumbling as Democrats delay more Predators to the region. Obama said nothing about the UN's failed mandate to disarm Hizb"Allah and advocated talking to Syria while they helped the terrorists and worked on their secret nuc facility. Then "tough diplomacy" was used to take out the site so now Israel attempts negotiations having shown the stick. Democrats blasted the US even sending a warship to Lebanon in solidarity and made several visits to Assad which gained what? Obama wouldn't even extend our nuclear umbrella to Israel or go forward with sanctions our allies want against Iran.

The only thing short of force is a unified front and strong sanctions. There are negotiations with our adversaries and the concept to telegraph actions while talking retreat without a plan B is foolish at best. Now Russia and China denounce our missile defense as we get ready to actually test faster than light defensive systems. Maybe the Democrats will cave to Russia and China and cut missile defense to subsidize Corn farmers and healthcare for illegal aliens. Just a thought I'm sure they have already considered.

This is not the "Liberalism" I signed up for.

Split the ticket and prevent Pelosi (who said not having Hillary is NO SET BACK FOR WOMEN) and Obama lead us into the abyss.

Hillary doesn't want the VP.

She just wants the Ruby Slippers.

(That one was for you, Patsi.)

Obama does this "coy" thing where he acts like an innocent when he is twisting the knife. Ally

Except now when he twists it, it's into McCain, instead of Hillary.
Now that makes me feel defensive of McCain from here on out.

No, Hillary just wants to make sure the munchkins don't take over.

That is why people like him. He's NOT like the amoral do-anything-to-win Clintons. Posted by: nash

You're right. They're the amoral do-anything-to-win Obamas.

Nash: To abandon the established process for this thin rationale would be an unforgivable insult to all those who voted for Obama. It would destroy the Democratic party. Why would anyone vote in one of their primaries again, if they doesn't really count

Nash, I take your point. It is a serious problem. But, here's the thing, voters are being disregarded because of the arbitrary rules of the Democratic Party ... rules that must be changed.

First, Michigan has been trying for years to end the Iowa - NH stranglehold on "first in the nation" -- why? Their position is that these two small states distort the process...and that a state like Michigan is far more representative of the nation as a whole, but not so large as to exclude candidates without large campaign chests. In the case of Florida, the Democrats there fought tooth and nail against the early primary, but the Republicans outmaneuvered them. And, it looks as if they'll hang on to Florida. Both states asked for waivers, pleaded for waivers ... instead the waivers were given to Nevada (home of Harry Reid) and South Carolina (home of James Clyburn).
Finally, there is weighted delegate allocation and the fact that many caucuses do not actually have cast votes. There is nothing democratic or Democratic about either.
Writing to the DNC is useless ... withholding contributions is also pretty useless because I'm sure the people opening the envelopes throw the letters away. But withholding votes might just work.
Believe me, if the GOP had nominated anyone else but John McCain I would reluctantly (as I have so often in the past) vote for the Democratic candidate not of my choice ... but I do not fear John McCain and ... I live in a county that will likely go McCain anyway and in a state that will likely go for either Democrat ...

Hey Jamie, did you get a warm fuzzy feeling yesterday when we all found out that Hillary is still paying Mark Penn, 3.2 million for the month of April.

Yet another example of why the woman is morally unfit to occupy the oval office. There are probably millions of old women around the country splitting their pills so they can send her a few bucks, and what does she do with that cash, gives it to a fat piece of shit like Mark Penn. Gotta make you feel proud aye Jamie?

Notice how she qualified her begging for cash yesterday, "if you can afford it" .

Patsi,

Like a true Clinton supporter, take what I said about women out of context without ALL of what I said. I stated that I have worked with many and partnered well with them…just not the bitches. BTW, I have many, many female as well as male friends.

Ally: If Obama is nice, Hillary people say he is weak and inexperienced. If he's tough, you say he's just like every other politician and not a change agent.

The reason I support Obama is that as soon as he started to beat Hillary, she began to launch personal attacks on him, rather than debate the issues.

That's most of what I hear from Hillary supporters on this blog: personal attacks on Obama, rather than discussions of policy differences.

Nash: You really need to do some research about your candidate's days in Illinois. He is the poster boy for doing "anything" to win. Obama supporters just can't accept the fact that the man is a politician, not a religious figure. Insert the clip of Jack Nicholson's famous scene ... "The truth? You can't handle the truth!"

You've fallen for a carefully crafted image. You have been played.

"I do have a problem with some women with whom I will not ever work again. I’ve worked WITH too many like Clinton who were condescending bitches (mostly retail). "

This morning: Oh what a beautiful day! Now watch some Bastard come along and mess it up...

and here we are.

Meg: I live in San Diego County. Of our seven Congressional Reps, only two are Democrats ... one represents a majority-minority district near the border and the other represents a very upscale district at the beach (La Jolla). Lots of retired military, still lots of rural gun-owners, lots of immigrants from the Midwest who are very anti-hispanic. Lots of Zonies over-summer here, as well. McCain quite popular here.
One of my favorite bumper stickers ... "Welcome to San Diego...now go home." You'd probably have to live here to find the humor.

"But, here's the thing, voters are being disregarded because of the arbitrary rules of the Democratic Party ... rules that must be changed."

No the rules are not arbitrary, the were set up for a reason, and it was Michigan and Florida who disregarded the rules, lay the blame where it belongs.

That's most of what I hear from Hillary supporters on this blog: personal attacks on Obama, rather than discussions of policy differences. - Nash

I know it's horrifying isn't it? After all, Obama supporters NEVER engage in personal attacks on Senator Clinton.

It's spelled H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y.

“The day after New Year’s 1996, operatives for Barack Obama filed into a barren hearing room of the Chicago Board of Election Commissioners.

There they began the tedious process of challenging hundreds of signatures on the nominating petitions of state Sen. Alice Palmer, the longtime progressive activist from the city’s South Side. And they kept challenging petitions until every one of Obama’s four Democratic primary rivals was forced off the ballot.”

Obama not only refused to step aside, he filed challenges that nullified Palmer’s hastily gathered nominating petitions, forcing her to withdraw."

Brian: Hillary owed that money to the Penn firm. Recall that her campaign is in debt. It's too bad that they ever got into this financial fix ... most of the problems began in Iowa, where she decided too late that she would really try to win, when Edwards and Obama had been there literally for two years. Actually, one has to hold Hilda Solis-Doyle responsible for some of the bad financial decisions.

Meg your points about Michigan are unnecessary. Obama, Edwards and Dodd used the rules to screw Michigan voters and Hillary. The acted in unison at the very last moment to pull out and leave no time for Hillary, while Dodd stayed in. The story has been vetted all over the internet. And let's be serious, the not Hillary/Dodd vote was very clear. Obama can take all of the votes if he likes.

Obama never wanted a re-vote in Michigan and Florida. If there was a vote today, he would lose by a greater margin than before.

And yes, the attacks on McCain are dumb. First they are largely untrue and second, that would be calling the kettle black. It is Obama's dubious positions, mentors and advisors that ring hollow and drop like flies. That is why Obama runs on painting McCain as Bush. Why doesn't Obama run on the solgan Trumph which was the journal put out by Trinity that featured Obama? Didn't Obama read what was inside the paper? To use associations with McCain is just another aspect of the most hypocritical campaign. Sure, let's play the association game. Meeks, Lee, Moss, Rezko, Auchi, Zbig, Malley, Power, Khalidi, Ayers......Now who wins that tar and feathering?

Why Obama of course, YES HE CAN....

LOL

maggisd: I agree with you that the primary system has to be changed. But what Clinton is doing has nothing to do with fixing the system. She's trying to "game" the system for her own short-term gain.

Let the current process play out, then fix the Democratic primary system next year. This means that MI and FL will be allowed delegations, but the composition of those delegations will not change the outcome. As I understand it, this is already a "done deal." The Democratic party will NOT allow the Clintons to screw up 2008.

"Elections are funded by the govt. not private individuals."

Brian do you check anything for accuracy before you post it?

One of the options that the national party offered Florida was that they could hold an election separate from the one the State Republicans set up. The State party refused because they didn't have the money for a separate election and the DNC refused to pay for it as well. That was one of the reasons the state DNC stuck with the early election date.

Party elections in cities, counties, and state conventions are paid for with party funds, and since this was a party "primary" it was legal for the party to foot the bill and have the state officiate..

No the rules are not arbitrary, the were set up for a reason, and it was Michigan and Florida who disregarded the rules, lay the blame where it belongs. Posted by: BrianInNYC

Rules. Words, just words.

Rules are made to be broken. na na na na na
When in Rome.....

This is actually a pretty good discussion today (with a couple of exceptions).

Maggie

"no phone banking, funds, precinct walking for Sen Obama."

This is all part of the "not one dime, not one minute" that many women are getting behind even if they decide to eventually vote for him. If we aren't wanted or needed, then we just won't be there.

http://www.newhouse.com/race-trumped-gender-now-obama-must-mend-broken-hearts.html

This is actually a pretty good discussion today (with a couple of exceptions). Posted by: nash

The exceptions didn't happen til you and Brian got here. But welcome, nice to know we can always count on you to bring out the worst.

Nash: It is my view that Sen Obama was as negative towards Sen Clinton as she was to him. I don't believe she ever accused him of trying to hoodwink and bamboozle people. She did respond to some questions that were put to her by reporters ... usually numerous times. If they were viewed as personal attacks, that is unfortunate ... but in the eye of the beholder. Let us admit here that black people hear racism where whites did not intend it, and that women hear sexism where men may not have intended it.

However, I have issues with Sen Obama in the area of policy. It is my observation that many ... if not most ... of his policy positions have been lifte