Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Hi kids! *waves* Thought this might bring some much-needed lolz here.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/22/and-paul-begala-for-vice-president/

OMG, how rude of me. VERY cute video, Craig!

Nice video, Craig. Have to ask, when will the June version start? Will we have one version or two?

Sturge and other South Carolinians. We have two representatives on the Rules Committee (the Fowlers). I did email our state executive asking him to read and then forward my comments to them. FWIW the male half is supporting Mrs Clinton, and the female, Mr Obama.

Things must be real comfy in their household--something like Carville and Matalin.

Excellent video! The Craig that Craig interviewed...he's the one that goes on Imus, right?...and the interviewer-Craig, he's the one that goes on with Morning Joe. OK, got that cleared up!
Or is it vice-versa?

I hope McCain picks Huckabee...I haven't had enough of Mrs. Huck yet...won't Cindy and Mrs. Huckabee make a great set of book-ends?

craig crawford number two: what do ya spoze THESE two guys are talking about?

http://progressiveboink.com/kyle/images/election/huckabee.jpg

According to Anderson Cooper, Huckabee WAS invited to the McCain party but declined because he was already booked on an anniversary cruise with his wife of 33 years.

"anniversary cruise with his wife of 33 years"

At least he has his priorities straight.

Hi Craig,

"Huck CQ's VP" is a great satirical video. Please, can we have more like
this?

How about a mock-up of a typical CNN panel pundit-sizing about
McCain, Obama and Hillary with Craig Crawford as the host. Maybe
Trail Mix bloggers could even send in some of the questions.

Craig,

I have question for Wolf Blitzer. I understand you had Mr Castellanos on your show recently and he called Senator Clinton a B****. As well as Jack, your shows sidekick. Why do you let them get away denigrating a distinquished Senator?

Julie

Julie -- It's pretty amazing, isn't it? What I think has happened during this campaign is that we've seen the depth of misogyny in this society. Because of Hillary's having been so demonized and "framed" (as in Lakoff's usage) by the language, it became very easy to use her candidacy to slide general sexist thoughts across the landscape. The words used to describe her are, in fact, those they have used against women in general: manipulative, sly, cunning, shrill, hysterical, desperate, duplicitous, conniving.

It especially helped that race was an issue, because the worst offenders along gender lines could fall back on charging racism.

And while this piling on happened, the silence from the male powers of the Democratic party was deafening.

An ugly secret has been exposed. And that knowledge -- far more than whether Hillary Clinton is the eventual candidate -- is what will cause a rift in our party. Even women who don't support Hillary have seen it, and been offended. I see that more among Republican women than in Obama supporters. My Republican sister was a Hillary supporter. Many of her friends were not. But they are furious about what they hear on television.

I can't even imagine what they'd say if they were "blog readers" -- where just in the last couple of days I have seen Hillary Clinton called a whore by Obama backers on at least three occasions.

What the O-team doesn't understand is that the talk of "healing," comments like "you'll come home because where else would you go?" -- and threats about Roe are even more offensive because they are not only condescending but a blatant effort to intimidate.

Craig,

Can't start a day without you anymore.
Who needs MSNBC. Not me.

Quipping before thinking - love it.

The only other mis-step I remember from Huckabee
was when he said he put possum in a pop corn popper
and ate it.

I especially enjoyed your take on exit polls and pundits.

You always make me feel so much better

Thanks

Craig...nice video...very clever!!

The little Craig Crawford, on the table, is too cute!!

Is that a bobblehead?

"manipulative, sly, cunning, shrill, hysterical, desperate, duplicitous, conniving." Posted by: Patsi Author Profile Page | May 23, 2008 5:33 AM

Patsi,

It is so strange that everyone was so quick to condemn what they saw as racism, while overlooking all the other types of prejudice out there. Either you agree that ANY kind of prejudice is wrong or you don't. You don't pick and choose which inflammatory words and views are acceptable and which are not (unless your're a cable network station, of course). You reject them all.

The most concerning part is those who are most prejudice consider their feelings fact, not opinion. And how can you argue with facts.

The Absurdity of Meeting the Enemy
"Another unmistakable sign is when a presidential candidate makes a gaffe, then, realizing it is too egregious to take back without suffering humiliation, decides to make it a centerpiece of his foreign policy"
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/post_40.html

The Detroit Pistons won in Boston last night! Boston was undefeated at home in the playoffs before last night. I'll bet they were counting on winning every home game in the playoffs and figured they wouldn't have to win a game on the road in order to win the NBA title. Well , now they have to! Correct me if I'm wrong , but they're 0-6 on the road in the playoffs so far and 3 of the next 4 games are in Detroit! Stick a fork in them , the Celtics are done! How sweet it is! *Does happy dance*

Oh , and Renee....I am kidding. LOL! Just trying out some early morning impressions. Nice to see Ray Allen have a good game last night.

Patsi and Meg,

Great posts. Of course, I agree completely with your sentiments.

The press never even mentioned the people carrying signs at
Clinton rallies that stated, "Iron My Shirts."
Can you imagine if someone carried a sign like that at an Obama event?

When Obama bloggers accuse me of being a sore loser, having a tantrum
because "your girl didn't win," I tell them that my feelings about Obama
aren't just about the man, but also have to do with the misogyny that was cultivated by Camp Obama, Obama surrogates and the DNC during this election.

I'm ashamed of the DNC and don't feel the Party deserves my vote
or my membership, at this time.

The fact the DNC and Howard Dean allowed the mess in Florida and Michigan to disenfranchise millions of voters is in itself disgraceful.

Also, Camp Obama and the DNC took over the media and demonized a President and a former first lady for no other reason than for political gain. Obama supporter's disgusting attempts to turn Bill and Hillary Clinton into racists is another reason that the Democratic Party has not earned my vote this year.

I haven't left the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party left me.

In case anyone wants to relieve some stress...

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080522/MULTI/80522108/1048/SPORTS

Wow, talking to yourself goes hi-tech. Very cool. Loved the bit on Hardball where it turns out that Hill'ry would be the most capable veep...and ended up making the point that she would actually be the most capable prez.

It seems all the pundits are experiencing VP madness these days.

Why aren't the great-wise-all-knowing pundi not speculating about
who Hillary Clinton might ask to be her running mate?After all, in case I'm
not mistaken, isn't Hillary near winning the popular vote? Isn't she still in the race?

Here's one of my picks for Hillary's VP:
Ed Randell

Another VP possibility for Hillary: Harold Ford Jr.

"Minds That Move The World"

http://www.radiocity.com/speakerseries/?s7985c21212212o46189t8011n35043e

Presidents Clinton & Gore, I understand, but Fluffy Carlson? ...whose show I actually miss for some reason.

Craig....
LOVE the video!....
heard some VP talk on the Diane Rehm Show this past week..... her panel all agreed that Huckabee would be a disastrous pick for McCain....

I used to consider myself a Democrat..... I registered as one when I first registered to vote in Massachusetts back in 1972...... when I moved to NH and became an election official, I reregistered as an independent..... 99% of election officials in NH do it.... we pride ourselves in running clean elections....

I retired in 2006 when I decided not to go up for re-election.... after 24 yrs, I'd had enough..... at that point, I was going to reregister as a Democrat..... but something in my gut stopped me..... I decided to remain an independent and see what developed in the upcoming presidential race....

my gut feelings have always served me well over the years.... and I can see they didn't fail me with regard to this issue..... I can't ever imagine myself reregistering as a Democrat now...... being a proud independent is now in my blood....

CNN say's it has breaking news in about 20 mins. that Clinton and Obama campaigns may be reaching a deal for her to end her campaign......

McCain and Hagee have rejected each other eh?

dueling rejections.

Ah Craig and Craig,

The truth is now out. We always suspected that there must be more than one of you considering your writing schedule, TV Punditry, blog appearance, Appletini Testing, and Tree Impact Supervisior. Toby just thought it was simpler to name you Craig, Craig, and your other brother Craig.

Will we have a 2 Dem VP Sweepstakes in June and a third in August once we actually know the nominee?

Jack...I just picked up your Kansas City post from last night.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/05/state-dispute-imperils-dem-end.html#comment-87316

So much commonality here -- the area where you live is very familiar to me. I used to stop into Teresa's for burgers during summers when I worked for the KCS railroad...did a lot of jobs on the stretch of track through the Blue River bottoms. Your wife's family's no-tell-motel is a stone's throw from the house where my mom grew up...and the big green Jesus landing pad. Remember when the Mormon's built their twisty spire right next door? We all used to joke that we hoped Jesus didn't miss the dome...or he'd have a pretty painful landing. I'm a proud Van Horn High grad.

1985 World Series...I got to attend Game 2 as a fan, and got to cover Game 7 as a crowd reporter. I remember after it was over, walking through the tunnel and seeing George Brett waiting for postgame interviews...then walking out onto the field and clear out into center field just so I could say I touched the center field wall that day. I also popped into the grounds crew cave out in right field...where I knocked on a door and was greeted by a half-drunk, half naked George Toma...who was celebrating the win. He was definitely in the mood for an interview.

Anyway...all good memories and thanks for filling in all the blanks. I hope I bought a beer from you at some point.

Corey.....
your Pistons played a great game...... Congrats!

hey remember I told Pogo a few days ago that I was nervous about this series...

I've never been into basketball before these playoffs..... I'm having fun learning the game..... no matter who wins.... I'm enjoying it....

Lardass.... no, no, no, no, no...... I would never root "against" your Royals....
I'm rooting "for" my beloved Red Sox....
there's only one team any self respecting Red Sox fan roots "against".... and you know which one it is...... (sorry EdVB)....

Meg,

How could that possibly be true? David Axelrod was just on MSNBC saying absolutely no conversations were taking place between the two campaigns.

He wouldn't lie now would he?

Craig....really hilarious video. You're reaching new heights. Building on Prof Marcia's suggestion for a mock TV news panel, I suggest that all the panel members be played by Craig as well.

There could be the host "Craig", a poll-analyst "Craig", a Obama-drooler Craig, a Pat Buchanan psycho "Craig" and maybe even a "Craig Craig." And they could all argue with each other and talk over one another.

From USA Today

Quinnipiac's numbers:

• Florida: Clinton tops McCain 48%-41%; McCain leads Obama 45%-41%.
• Ohio: Clinton beats McCain 48%-41%; McCain tops Obama 44%-40%.
• Pennsylvania: Clinton tops McCain 50%-37%; Obama leads McCain 46%-40%.

The methodology:

• 1,419 Florida voters; margin of error of +/- 2.6 percentage points.
• 1,244 Ohio voters; margin of error of +/- 2.8 percentage points.
• 1,667 Pennsylvania voters; margin of error of +/- 2.4 percentage points.

The surveys were done from May 13-20.

Ha-ha Renee...truce accepted!

Nick...I remember the first time I ever heard the word "picaresque." It had to do with Huckleberry Finn....required reading in most, if not all, Missouri high schools. I'm glad it made "word-of-the-week!"

I'm ashamed of the DNC and don't feel the Party deserves my vote or my membership, at this time. Posted by: prof marcia

Marcia,
it's progressed to the point now that I pretty much direct all my dissatisfaction and disillusion toward the DNC. I don't really direct it at Obama anymore, although, for many reasons, I will never vote for him. I've begun to view him as a pawn.

http://vbonnaire.wordpress.com/2008/03/13/there-will-be-backlash-barack-obama-when-you-attempt-to-squelch-womens-voices/

LardassLiberal,

I love your suggestion about Craig as a CNN Wolf Blitzer-like commentator
interviewing Craig as each member of the panel. Let's convince Craig to
do this. He could pull it off.

Meg,

I heard the same headline you did on CNN that the Clinton and Obama
campaigns were working on a deal for Hillary to leave the race.

But, five minutes before that I heard Darth Axelrod on MSNBC saying
there were absolutely no conversations between the two campaigns.

Question: Is Eugene Robinson introduced as an Obama supporter when he does MSNBC panels? I usually only see him listed as an MSNBC Political Analyst or Contributer.

"Clinton knows that even the disputed delegates she "won" in Florida and Michigan won't get her to the magic number she needs to win the nomination. Some commentators have speculated that she wants to have the votes counted simply so that she can semi-plausibly claim to have had more popular support than Obama, a distinction that would serve her well if she ran again in four or eight years. I say dream on; the Clintons don't do moral victories."

Robinson's opinion column is always so vitriolic toward the Clintons and yet I don't recall ever seeing him introduced on MSNBC as an Obama supporter (add to that list Rachel Maddow.) How is this possible?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/22/AR2008052203018.html?hpid=opinionsbox1?hpid=opinionsbox1

Posted by: Nick | May 23, 2008 8:15 AM

Nick, thanks for those 2 links.

the general electric network does what it has to do to get the job done.......talk about no moral victories......

He wouldn't lie now would he?
Posted by: Jamie

Jamie,

very funny.
I guess in politics, just as life, "Nothing is what it seems".

Question: Is Eugene Robinson introduced as an Obama supporter when he does MSNBC panels? I usually only see him listed as an MSNBC Political Analyst or Contributer.
Posted by: Ally Author Profile Page | May 23, 2008 8:45 AM

Ally,
I think MSNBC thinks we will assume he's a Obama supporter, since they don't allow anything else on that network.
No credibility!

I recommend boycott of all GE products and all NBC advertisers. We've already started. Haven't watched NBC/MSNBC for weeks. Also changed our home page on internet away from MSN. Believe me I know first-hand that the most effective place to hit GE is in the wallet.

the general electric network does what it has to do to get the job done.......talk about no moral victories......
Posted by: sturgeone |

The awareness level of the people on this site has ridded me of most of my anger, and I arrived with a great deal.
Great therapy. Thanks all.

Meg,

Wow! I can't believe your post. Great minds. . .

Here's a post I just typed.

Eugene Robinson on MSNBC bothers me. He's so in love with Obama
it oozes from him like gooey kisses. Robinson can barely utter a word
without his lips praising Obama as if in prayer. His snide attacks on Hillary
have become legendary. Yet, MSNBC never discloses Eugene Robinson
is Obama's frontman. The audience is to accept that Mr. Robinson is
merely a nonpartician political analyst, simply a journalist for the Washington
Post. This type of sly manipulation of news has become a prominent and dangerous hallmark of campaign 2008 as propaganda substitutes for
facts and unsuspecting Americans are duped into a Brave New World.

"Ally,
I think MSNBC thinks we will assume he's a Obama supporter, since they don't allow anything else on that network.
No credibility!"

Ha! Ally -- Sorry to admit that I think Meg is right. There's almost a blockage of anyone but the O-zealots.

The "LBs"

I guess the brass at MSNBC keep Pat B. on because never, in a million gazillion years, did they figure he would turn out to be a cheerleader for Hillary. And they probably figure, like I do, that when you agree with Pat ALL THE TIME you must wonder what bizarro planet we live on—they want us to think we have gone completely nuts. I know this is rambling and doesn't make much sense but I figure all of the other Clintonistas will figure it out because they are kooky like me.

These poll numbers are amazing. Hillary is gaining even though the media and the delegate numbers indidate it's all over. Go back a few days and compare.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Clinton/Maps/May23.html

Obama's numbers show that he and McCain are running neck and neck in a few more states. So McCains numbers have gone down and the Ties went up.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Obama/Maps/May23.html

recommend boycott of all GE products and all NBC advertisers. We've already started. Haven't watched NBC/MSNBC for weeks. Also changed our home page on internet away from MSN. Believe me I know first-hand that the most effective place to hit GE is in the wallet.
Posted by: ky marco

marco, went back an picked up a post with a linke from yesterday:
“A nationwide boycott of MSNBC advertisers will begin tomorrow including Toyota, Nationwide, Geico, Enterprise Car Rental, Lenscrafter, Hotels.com, and Johnson & Johnson.”
http://www.clintonsupporterscounttoo.org/index.html

I have lost faith with MSNBC when they fell all over themselves with Obama and they admitted that at the beginning of the race. When the Bill Ayers story had some play Pat B was talking about it on MSNBC then the next day he was on the Shawn Hannity radio show and Shawn brought it up and Pat acted like it was the first time he ever heard of it. Maybe he had to play it that way based on what management told him to do. Do these people think we are fools and don't listen to other shows.

Is it rude to trash MSNBC if our host works for them?
Will Craig be upset at us?

But, Craig doesn't seem to fit on MSNBC. Whenever he appears on MoJo or Hardball he seems like the only true political analyst not in the tank for anyone.

Craig said once that he stopped voting after he became a political analyst. That's probably the only way a person can remain neutral.

when you agree with Pat ALL THE TIME you must wonder what bizarro planet we live on" Posted by: Ally

Ally, what a strange and unpredictable world we live in. I've learned to admire Pat myself.

I hope I am not being rude the host. My real question is why they simply don't introduce the panels appropriately.

CNN makes such a big production out of introducing Begala and Carville as "Clinton supporters" and yet they have Roland Martin and Donna Brazile on the panel as neutral. Paul Begala has the ability to be just as objective as Donna Brazile (I admit, Carville is pretty biased.) And Tweety had Dee Dee Myers on the other day and introduced her as a Clinton supporter when she has stayed neutral in the race (and, frankly, has been pretty fair when I have seen her.)

Robinson can barely utter a word
without his lips praising Obama as if in prayer". prof marcia

marcia, like so many others, as if in prayer.

regarding Craig and msnbc, of course he is the good guy there. But he's not been there as much as before, has he? At least it seemed so when I was still watching. I don't watch the station anymore, so when I commented on the bias there, Craig was not included in that assessment. Hoped that went without saying.

At least when Craig is on Imus he can talk and not get cut off.

CNN makes such a big production out of introducing Begala and Carville as "Clinton supporters" and yet they have Roland Martin and Donna Brazile on the panel as neutral. Paul Begala has the ability to be just as objective as Donna Brazile (I admit, Carville is pretty biased.) And Tweety had Dee Dee Myers on the other day and introduced her as a Clinton supporter when she has stayed neutral in the race (and, frankly, has been pretty fair when I have seen her.) " Ally

Ally, I agree. No consistency.

Do you really think Donna has been as objective as Paul has been?

When Paul is on with Jamel, Paul is so much more positive of the whole race than Jamel or Donna.

Do you really think Donna has been as objective as Paul has been?

Posted by: vadaryl | May 23, 2008 9:50 AM

Absolutely not. The opposite actually. The disdain with which Donna speaks of certain constituencies has turned me off, not only to her, but to the party. This is the first time I have ever lived in a flyover state and boy oh boy do you notice the disdain in the media for the middle once you get off the coasts.

Do you really think Donna has been as objective as Paul has been? Posted by: vadaryl

Guess that decides which side you're on.

Jamel did say something the other night about FL and MI that I agree with. Obama this late in the race can't let any door open that could change anything so he can't be in favor of letting FL and MI count. Otherwise Jamel's spin has been rules are rules but he knows deep down if the tables were turned he be pushing for the votes to count.

Thanks Meg. Saw it yesterday and have already sent several emails.

Obama this late in the race can't let any door open that could change anything so he can't be in favor of letting FL and MI count." Posted by: vadaryl | May 23, 2008 9:55 AM

As far that argument: the rules are the rules, that annoys me to no end. Telling those people that their votes don't count when you can count them and still grab the nomination, in spite of that, just seems irrational and mean.

I like another rule: "Rules are made to be broken".
I'm sure that will make someone mad.

Jamel is announced as a Obama supporter so you expect him to be positive about Obama and Paul is announced he's a Hillary supporter but he puts a positive spin on the Dem party side too, but Donna is announced as a Superdelegate not a Obama supporter but you know who she is supporting. I can't understand why she is holding out based on what she said the other day. I will support the person with the most delegates, well we knew that weeks ago so why wait. That's the same with all the other supers, this could be over in a few minutes if they just announce.

The most likely deal would seat the full Michigan and Florida delegations but give each delegate half a vote."

That'll make them feel much better. You're half a person folks, Congratulations.

"The awareness level of the people on this site has ridded me of most of my anger, and I arrived with a great deal.
Great therapy. Thanks all."....

Meg.... I've noticed a difference in your tone this last week..... good for you!
anger can be an appropriate reaction..... but too much is unheathly, IMO....
I'm enjoying reading the happier side of you....

I'm reading Pat Buchanan's "Day of Reckoning"..... I don't agree with all of it.... but Pat is a brilliant political analyst..... once again, IMO....

I will support the person with the most delegates" vadaryl

It seems cowardly. She's telling us, like Pelosi has repeatedly, who she's supporting, but bragging about being neutral at the same time.

They're giving us the rationalization before giving us the answer. What a bunch of dummies they must think we are. Promoting their candidate while pretending not to.

oh..... I forgot to mention....

as a long time poster on this site...... we've always trashed the media on Craig's blog and in particular MSNBC.....

if he objects to it..... it's kinda too late.....

and I stopped watching MSNBC months ago..... I got tired of all the blather....

Meg, I am a Hillary supporter and I agree hearing that rules are rules make me mad too. The Dems can fix this by having a revote in both states. Hillary's camp has said they have the funds to pay for it. The reason why I agree with Jamel is based on looking it from his side. It makes sense that you would not want to have any door open that could change things. I don't agree with it but from his point of view it makes sense.

"The Dems can fix this by having a revote in both states. "

They don't want to fix the problem, beccause they know in any revote, Hillary will sweep Florida and MI.

I don't agree with Donna on her way of thinking. A super is there if needed (in this case they are) to vote for the person they think has the best chance of beating McCain not vote for the person who has the most delegates. Now if she thinks Obama is that person, OK, but not say I am voting for the person with the most delegates. I wish they would get on her for saying that.

Good morning all. I will just post a blanket agreement with almost everything said by almost everybody.
Has anyone still watching MSNBC noticed that Sen McCain is now receiving "the treatment" ... Sen Obama goes on the Senate floor and makes a blatantly political statement, mentioning Sen McCain by name when the man is not even there to respond. An inveterate viewer of C-Span I have not seen this done before except by the infamous Rick Santorum who once called Sen Boxer a killer ... she was in the building at the time, however, and was able to rush to the floor to defend herself.
But every talking head on MSNBC chastises Sen McCain for his response. And not a single Republican is invited on any program to defend Sen McCain.
So...MSNBC has confirmed the nominee and confirmed that they are in his corner.

The video was great !!

Don't you guys ever get tired of trying to figure out how to steal the nomination?

Your candidate agreed in the fall that MI and FL were not to be counted. Just because she's losing doesn't mean you can change it now.

It's over. No only has the fat lady sung, she's back in the dressing room removing her make-up.

I certainly hope that should you all succeed in electing John McCain, that Obama supporters look at this show you are putting on and see how poorly it reflects - that should Obama lose in the end, he does so with grace and without resort to blaming whatever convenient ism lies at hand. You are denigrating Hillary, in my opinion, by reducing her political accomplishments to excuses and finger pointing in order to assuage your (understandable) feelings of loss. Shame.

Huckabee as VP? VP of what?

Does any rational person think the Republicans have a shot this year? (Besides Craig.)

In 4 years I hope they get rid of the supers, have only primaries, and the person with the most votes wins. Both parties winner takes all. Same way with the national election.

vadaryl: What would be the sense of super delegates if they always and only voted for the candidate with the most pledged delegates?
As I recall (I could be wrong on this), the super delegates were put in place after the McGovern contest, the thought being that, if another candidate as weak as McGovern seemed to be steaming toward the nomination, that those more interested in the health of the party could step in.
All I can say at this point is that, based on the various electoral maps, if the election were held tomorrow the Democrats would once more prove that we know how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

vadarryl -- Let's get rid of weighted delegate apportionment and caucuses without votes. Can't make a state pay for a primary, but at least the Dems can make their caucuses confirm residency requirements and record vote totals ... unless we want to concede that Republicans are more competent than Democrats.

Forget the public spin that she's still seeking the nomination; Hillary now wants to be VP.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/23/us/politics/23veep.html?_r=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin

nash: Have you looked at any of the projected electoral maps yet? Currently -- and I concede things may change -- McCain does better than Obama at several sites that are tracking electoral vote projections according to current polling data. So, yes, some rational people do think that McCain can win, even if the down-ticket Republicans are doing poorly.

You are denigrating Hillary, in my opinion, by reducing her political accomplishments to excuses and finger pointing in order to assuage your (understandable) feelings of loss. Shame. Posted by: TP from CT/NC |

TP, If you're worried about finger pointing and excuses, may you should go back a lot further when checking out the blogs. The point of no return to the DNC's handling of this whole process was reached long ago in some of our minds

I know you politicians think we the dumb public have short memories, but I for one won't forget. I remember you from a week or two ago. You're the one popping in and trashing Bill Clinton. You tried to us how he stuck the knife in himself, and took part of the party with him-the the DNC has been innocent in this whole exploitation. Well, include me as one of those people who followed him and Hillary. And there I'll stay.

It's not the Voters in MI/FL fault the party and candidates screwed up. Everyone knows that the person behind would want these votes counted so if the tables were turned Obama would be fighting for them too. Don't forget these voters in November. You need them to win in the national election so I would be careful what you do with them now. In 2000 and 2004 FL played an important rule.

If Obama wants to have some fun, he should offer the VP slot to BILL Clinton. (And the SOB would take it.)

Meg: I couldn't agree with you more. The idea that so many Democrats would stand by and allow the trashing of the only two-term Democrat elected since FDR ... a man who brought us 8 years of relative peace and prosperity, who actually had that national conversation about race relations that Obama talked about ... it is beyond belief.
I take Donna Brazile at her word ... they are building a new coalition and Clinton supporters are not wanted.

Look at those poll numbers, would you be quitting if you still had an outside chance.

Don't sweat it Nash, the Obama camp has made it clear they have no intention of being strong armed."

By a mere 17 million votes, give or take a few, you moron.
woops, there come's the anger.
Ignorance and propaganda always bring it back out.

I take Donna Brazile at her word ... they are building a new coalition and Clinton supporters are not wanted.
Posted by: maggisd

Thank God!

If McCain wins at least he appears to be in good health.

Patsi says at 7:37 pm yesterday on the previous thread:

“Karo -- Just because your relatives are racist, don't tar all of rural America.”

Patsi, I don’t believe racism and bigotry are in all of rural America. Actually, Obama has done quite well in many parts of rural America except for WV, Ohio, and KY. My mother has relatives in WV (with whom I do not associate except for one nice aunt—hell, her front yard is decorated with white elephants in her gardens so you know where she stands). I know many, many people in SE Ohio. Everyone knows everyone. Most think the same. I believe bigotry is deplorable in 2008 and ANY AND EVERYONE should be able to do or be anything they want regardless of their race, religion or gender. But, you can’t think for and change everyone.

Just this morning in The Columbus Dispatch the polls showed that Clinton won over Obama 55% to 29% in SE Ohio. I would say that lack of education is the reason in some of the regions, but to say that discrimination is just in my family due to lack of education would make no sense because of the entire 30-40 of my family in SE Ohio all but about 2 or 3 have advanced degrees. I still believe it is culture. Racism is definitely a part of WV, where there is most certainly a lack of any education among many, but in SE Ohio education doesn’t even make a difference, well except for 29%. Make no mistake…these are good people, but I cannot get over the racism and bigotry that is in abundance, or, what comes out of some of their mouths.

It would be great to just look at issues, but how can you do that with such blindness. And, no, I don’t blame all of the bigotry on the Clintons but they have most certainly propagated it throughout this election. There are some pieces floating around that Bill Clinton actually does not want his wife to win this election because it would take away from his legacy. He does have an ego. You must remember that if he had not said some of the things he did earlier she might be ahead right now as they thought they would be. But, her campaign has not been run like a good business, IMO. Obama has certainly had an uphill battle against many fronts and from other people and overcame them.

Some have commented that I have racism against Clinton. I wouldn’t call it racism but I do have a problem with some women with whom I will not ever work again. I’ve worked WITH too many like Clinton who were condescending bitches (mostly retail). They are smart and they think they must always be in control of everything and you know nothing. They continually fight amongst themselves. I’ve also worked with some very intelligent women who realize that partnering gets more done. One was for a president and CEO of an international elearning company for 5-1/2 years and also at LS&CO (Levi Strauss).

Viv, I’m someone who reads about anything political, both online and in real print! Besides, I would say your bigotry in KY is primarily among those in the eastern part of the state. Correct? The other part is probably McBush. Anyone wanting to see the Dispatch polls can go here. In a few cases I’ve found you must be a subscriber.

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/05/23/battleground_poll.ART_ART_05-23-08_A4_6OA9H63.html?adsec=politics&sid=101 Clintonistas would probably like the poll.

Clinton has had so many gaffs and misstatements. I was someone who supported both of them in the past, but you began to realize what they were after with the NY move…a legacy of Clintons and for her to become the first female president. I still support Obama, but I’m getting to the point where I just don’t care anymore. I’ll vote and support him because I want real change (and don’t really care what that means as long as it is not Bush/Cheney or a Clinton) but whatever!!!!! Besides, the Democrats are out to destroy themselves again this year. Clinton’s condescension towards Obama has not helped, but then he wasn’t supposed to happen to them was he? I won’t address the other comments on here. I still don’t believe this thing is over because it deals with Clintons, and they will DO ANYTHING for power even if it means McBush is president.

Meg, you keep talking about that popular vote count, but have you looked at Obama’s popular vote. They are people as well. The only way she can lead is disregarding rules…rules, something that means nothing to the Clinton’s.

God, I’m beginning to post volumes like Maxtrue, but then I don’t post that much. Leaving to stay with my baby granddaughter today because my daughter’s beautiful husky, Cheyenne, is near the end and going to the vet.

maggisd: Forgive me for the "delusional" remark. You are one of the Clinton supporters who are rational, articulate, and polite. I understand the argument that Clinton would do better than Obama in the general election. It's an arguable point, not a fact.

However, to abandon the established process for this thin rationale would be an unforgivable insult to all those who voted for Obama. It would destroy the Democratic party. Why would anyone vote in one of their primaries again, if they doesn't really count?

Obama does this "coy" thing where he acts like an innocent when he is twisting the knife. Yesterday he gave a speech in Florida about McCain's "Pastor Problem." He said something like this: "and you know, McCain has this problem with his, uh, with Hagee." As if he was going to finish the sentence with "his pastor" but then fills in Hagee. The inference is still there (when you listen to the speech) that Hagee was his pastor.

The problem with MSNBC using Pat B. as the Clinton front person for "balance" is that he has such a reputation as a probable "racist" or at least "cultural conservative".

That means that anyone supporting Sen. Clinton then becomes suspect. You could have been a raging liberal for the past 40 years and disagreed with virtually everything ever said by Buchanan, but now you are just like him because his is the face the network allows the audience to see.

However, to abandon the established process for this thin rationale would be an unforgivable insult to all those who voted for Obama. It would destroy the Democratic party. Why would anyone vote in one of their primaries again, if they doesn't really count?

Posted by: nash | May 23, 2008 10:45 AM

Like the people in Florida and Michigan who have been disenfranchised by no fault of their own?

Meg- I don't know if it was you or someone else who posted yesterday that the vast amount of campaign volunteer work is done by women "of a certain age." Wonder what the volunteer rate will be in this campaign? I've signed up for the local Congressional candidate (he probably hasn't a prayer, unfortunately) but no phone banking, funds, precinct walking for Sen Obama. (Although frankly there is no way he could win this county anyway and even Hillary would be a long shot around here ... although Bill did win this county both times).

maggi,
it wasn't me that posted about campaign volunteer work, but what you say sounds right. Where do you live?

LL

Burgers at Teresa's, that would help explain your name. Teresa's is not known for being grease free.

Tell me , when you look at the RLDS temple don't you want to hum "stairway to heaven"
Here is a picture for the rest of the folks
http://www.f-stop.com/rlds.htm

Busy day , my wife is will be arriving at the airport in a couple of hours. She has spent the week in NY cat herding a bunch of engineers and marketing folks
Gotta clean house and look like I didn't waste all week gabbing on line.

Jack

Jack

maggi: Obama has no worries, he knows that all the "cool" kids with their Che Guevara avatars will hand the election to him.

He's redrawing the electoral map, remember?

You see, Obama thinks that the election is like the entertaining Mac commercials with Mac/PC. In fact, it would seem that Darth Axlerod has made the election about the young, hip, cool vs. the old boring farts. Little wonder the computer/video game crowd has turned out in droves ... but what happens when the next new shiny device comes along? Will the "cool" kids have moved on to something else by November?

The soul of our nation is riding on these choices but unfortunately a lot of this new coaltion lacks the understanding that the election is a not a video game, we just can't hit the reset button if the game has suddenly gone bad.

"I do have a problem with some women with whom I will not ever work again. I’ve worked WITH too many like Clinton who were condescending bitches (mostly retail). "

Okay, Karo -- I get what the problem is.....

vadaryl: Hillary's position was that MI and FL were not to be counted, until until she started to lose. Then, suddenly, she changed her position. And no, I don't think if the situation was reversed, Obama would do the same thing.

That is why people like him. He's NOT like the amoral do-anything-to-win Clintons.

Nash, your understanding of the history of the Democratic Party and politics in general is so lacking, it is comical. I dare you to post some blather at Stubborn Facts. Not a word from you about the more than sleazy deal Obama, Edwards and Dodd engaged in to screw Michigan and Hillary when they saw how well she would do. Yes? ..........no I didn't expect a rebutal.

And the media? Now there is a fine bunch of balanced people;

http://patterico.com/2008/05/23/la-times-gay-marriage-opposed-by-a-very-narrow-19-point-margin/

Big is slight and slight is big....LOL

On Hagee. First he apologized under pressure. Wright did not. Then more stuff surfaced and McCain slammed him down and Hagge retracted his endorsement without calling McCain a liar or a phony...LOL Wright should take a lesson here.

And Obama saying McCain doesn't care about Vets as much as he does? Good luck with that BS. Also, Obama now tells Jews in Florida HE WILL NOT NEGOTIATE WITH HIZB'ALLAH. So what has Obama done to thwart Hamas or Hizb'Allah? Anything? Barak's Pakistan predictions and policies are crumbling as Democrats delay more Predators to the region. Obama said nothing about the UN's failed mandate to disarm Hizb"Allah and advocated talking to Syria while they helped the terrorists and worked on their secret nuc facility. Then "tough diplomacy" was used to take out the site so now Israel attempts negotiations having shown the stick. Democrats blasted the US even sending a warship to Lebanon in solidarity and made several visits to Assad which gained what? Obama wouldn't even extend our nuclear umbrella to Israel or go forward with sanctions our allies want against Iran.

The only thing short of force is a unified front and strong sanctions. There are negotiations with our adversaries and the concept to telegraph actions while talking retreat without a plan B is foolish at best. Now Russia and China denounce our missile defense as we get ready to actually test faster than light defensive systems. Maybe the Democrats will cave to Russia and China and cut missile defense to subsidize Corn farmers and healthcare for illegal aliens. Just a thought I'm sure they have already considered.

This is not the "Liberalism" I signed up for.

Split the ticket and prevent Pelosi (who said not having Hillary is NO SET BACK FOR WOMEN) and Obama lead us into the abyss.

Hillary doesn't want the VP.

She just wants the Ruby Slippers.

(That one was for you, Patsi.)

Obama does this "coy" thing where he acts like an innocent when he is twisting the knife. Ally

Except now when he twists it, it's into McCain, instead of Hillary.
Now that makes me feel defensive of McCain from here on out.

No, Hillary just wants to make sure the munchkins don't take over.

That is why people like him. He's NOT like the amoral do-anything-to-win Clintons. Posted by: nash

You're right. They're the amoral do-anything-to-win Obamas.

Nash: To abandon the established process for this thin rationale would be an unforgivable insult to all those who voted for Obama. It would destroy the Democratic party. Why would anyone vote in one of their primaries again, if they doesn't really count

Nash, I take your point. It is a serious problem. But, here's the thing, voters are being disregarded because of the arbitrary rules of the Democratic Party ... rules that must be changed.

First, Michigan has been trying for years to end the Iowa - NH stranglehold on "first in the nation" -- why? Their position is that these two small states distort the process...and that a state like Michigan is far more representative of the nation as a whole, but not so large as to exclude candidates without large campaign chests. In the case of Florida, the Democrats there fought tooth and nail against the early primary, but the Republicans outmaneuvered them. And, it looks as if they'll hang on to Florida. Both states asked for waivers, pleaded for waivers ... instead the waivers were given to Nevada (home of Harry Reid) and South Carolina (home of James Clyburn).
Finally, there is weighted delegate allocation and the fact that many caucuses do not actually have cast votes. There is nothing democratic or Democratic about either.
Writing to the DNC is useless ... withholding contributions is also pretty useless because I'm sure the people opening the envelopes throw the letters away. But withholding votes might just work.
Believe me, if the GOP had nominated anyone else but John McCain I would reluctantly (as I have so often in the past) vote for the Democratic candidate not of my choice ... but I do not fear John McCain and ... I live in a county that will likely go McCain anyway and in a state that will likely go for either Democrat ...

Patsi,

Like a true Clinton supporter, take what I said about women out of context without ALL of what I said. I stated that I have worked with many and partnered well with them…just not the bitches. BTW, I have many, many female as well as male friends.

Ally: If Obama is nice, Hillary people say he is weak and inexperienced. If he's tough, you say he's just like every other politician and not a change agent.

The reason I support Obama is that as soon as he started to beat Hillary, she began to launch personal attacks on him, rather than debate the issues.

That's most of what I hear from Hillary supporters on this blog: personal attacks on Obama, rather than discussions of policy differences.

Nash: You really need to do some research about your candidate's days in Illinois. He is the poster boy for doing "anything" to win. Obama supporters just can't accept the fact that the man is a politician, not a religious figure. Insert the clip of Jack Nicholson's famous scene ... "The truth? You can't handle the truth!"

You've fallen for a carefully crafted image. You have been played.

"I do have a problem with some women with whom I will not ever work again. I’ve worked WITH too many like Clinton who were condescending bitches (mostly retail). "

This morning: Oh what a beautiful day! Now watch some Bastard come along and mess it up...

and here we are.

Meg: I live in San Diego County. Of our seven Congressional Reps, only two are Democrats ... one represents a majority-minority district near the border and the other represents a very upscale district at the beach (La Jolla). Lots of retired military, still lots of rural gun-owners, lots of immigrants from the Midwest who are very anti-hispanic. Lots of Zonies over-summer here, as well. McCain quite popular here.
One of my favorite bumper stickers ... "Welcome to San Diego...now go home." You'd probably have to live here to find the humor.

That's most of what I hear from Hillary supporters on this blog: personal attacks on Obama, rather than discussions of policy differences. - Nash

I know it's horrifying isn't it? After all, Obama supporters NEVER engage in personal attacks on Senator Clinton.

It's spelled H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y.

“The day after New Year’s 1996, operatives for Barack Obama filed into a barren hearing room of the Chicago Board of Election Commissioners.

There they began the tedious process of challenging hundreds of signatures on the nominating petitions of state Sen. Alice Palmer, the longtime progressive activist from the city’s South Side. And they kept challenging petitions until every one of Obama’s four Democratic primary rivals was forced off the ballot.”

Obama not only refused to step aside, he filed challenges that nullified Palmer’s hastily gathered nominating petitions, forcing her to withdraw."

Meg your points about Michigan are unnecessary. Obama, Edwards and Dodd used the rules to screw Michigan voters and Hillary. The acted in unison at the very last moment to pull out and leave no time for Hillary, while Dodd stayed in. The story has been vetted all over the internet. And let's be serious, the not Hillary/Dodd vote was very clear. Obama can take all of the votes if he likes.

Obama never wanted a re-vote in Michigan and Florida. If there was a vote today, he would lose by a greater margin than before.

And yes, the attacks on McCain are dumb. First they are largely untrue and second, that would be calling the kettle black. It is Obama's dubious positions, mentors and advisors that ring hollow and drop like flies. That is why Obama runs on painting McCain as Bush. Why doesn't Obama run on the solgan Trumph which was the journal put out by Trinity that featured Obama? Didn't Obama read what was inside the paper? To use associations with McCain is just another aspect of the most hypocritical campaign. Sure, let's play the association game. Meeks, Lee, Moss, Rezko, Auchi, Zbig, Malley, Power, Khalidi, Ayers......Now who wins that tar and feathering?

Why Obama of course, YES HE CAN....

LOL

maggisd: I agree with you that the primary system has to be changed. But what Clinton is doing has nothing to do with fixing the system. She's trying to "game" the system for her own short-term gain.

Let the current process play out, then fix the Democratic primary system next year. This means that MI and FL will be allowed delegations, but the composition of those delegations will not change the outcome. As I understand it, this is already a "done deal." The Democratic party will NOT allow the Clintons to screw up 2008.

This is actually a pretty good discussion today (with a couple of exceptions).

Maggie

"no phone banking, funds, precinct walking for Sen Obama."

This is all part of the "not one dime, not one minute" that many women are getting behind even if they decide to eventually vote for him. If we aren't wanted or needed, then we just won't be there.

http://www.newhouse.com/race-trumped-gender-now-obama-must-mend-broken-hearts.html

Nash: It is my view that Sen Obama was as negative towards Sen Clinton as she was to him. I don't believe she ever accused him of trying to hoodwink and bamboozle people. She did respond to some questions that were put to her by reporters ... usually numerous times. If they were viewed as personal attacks, that is unfortunate ... but in the eye of the beholder. Let us admit here that black people hear racism where whites did not intend it, and that women hear sexism where men may not have intended it.

However, I have issues with Sen Obama in the area of policy. It is my observation that many ... if not most ... of his policy positions have been lifted in whole or in part from other candidates ... several, such as his environmental agenda are in contradiction to his voting record in Illinois.

I also have objections to him presenting himself as a new kind of politician ... given the cynical way in which he cleared his competition in his previous contests.

Two other minor things that really bother me ... his response to the question about a future terrorist attack ... he talked about first responders and the Katrina disaster. Sen Clinton said, we would make certain we knew who did it, and then we would retaliate. Second is a little anecdote leaked by an aide ... during his first session of the Foreign Relations Committee, listening to his colleagues speak, he passed his aide a note that read "Just shoot me now." Contrast this with the way Hillary has done her homework on the Armed Services Committee and earned the respect of so many military people ... I don't want a President who finds policy boring...we already have one of those.

"Obama supporters NEVER engage in personal attacks on Senator Clinton."

You got to kidding me, yes? Obama even apologized for attacks calling the Clintons racists coming from his campaign. Or didn't you see that in one of the debates?
I guess reality now conforms to your sotry, rather than the other way around. On one had, Obama supporters here call the Clinton's Repblican Lites and then claim Hillary is LEFT of Obama. What is lacking is any criteria of logic. Red States do matter. Red States don't matter. I WILL talk to Ahmadinejad. I NEVER said I would talk to Ahmadinejad. I supported pro-Hamas groups. I do not support Hamas. I won't accept private money. I will accept private money. I am for a total gun ban. I am not for a total gun ban. My mother was very unconventional. My mom was conservative. Wright was may mentor. Wright was just my Pastor. I will talk without pre-conditions. I won't talk without pre-conditions. Every voice should be counted. Some voices shouldn't count.

Now why should supporters be unlike their candidate?

nick: You listen to Charles Krauthammer? Don't you realize the GOP is playing games by "supporting" Hillary.

Hillary was even quoting Karl Rove a few days ago.

It's sad to see what happens to people when winning is so important that they abandon their principles and even their capacity to reason.

Look up "dupe" in the dictionary.

In case you missed it:

Obama's Growing Gaffe

Having lashed himself to the ridiculous, unprecedented promise of unconditional presidential negotiations -- and then having compounded the problem by elevating it to a principle -- Obama keeps trying to explain. On Sunday, he declared in Pendleton, Ore., that by Soviet standards Iran and others "don't pose a serious threat to us." (On the contrary. Islamic Iran is dangerously apocalyptic. Soviet Russia was not.) The next day in Billings, Mont.: "I've made it clear for years that the threat from Iran is grave."

That's the very next day, mind you. Such rhetorical flailing has done more than create an intellectual mess. It has given rise to a new political phenomenon: the metastatic gaffe. The one begets another, begets another, begets ..."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/post_40.html

I find this whole "rules is rules" thing amusing. A rule that is unenforceable without shooting yourself in the foot, is not a rule. It is at most a suggestion.

Jack

Meg you're an idiot, really."

From you, I'll take that as a complement, really.

Meg: In your excellent post about Obama's challenges to his state Senate rivals, you failed to mention that the Obama lawyers were using a newly purged voter list to which the other candidates apparently did not have access. The article I read did not elaborate as to how the Obama campaign gained access to that voter list.

meg: Insults do not constitute an argument. (But if they're funny enough, then it's OK.)

Another idiot comment? Obama is the one who claims he draws in Republicans and Independents. By that reckoning, HE would be hurt. I guess you remember nothing between Iowa and Kentucky. Were you alseep?

You will spin any story, twist any logic to SOUND like you know something. You will even make the absurd claim that Far Left is just mainstream Liberalism. Only an idiot would not see the difference between Chomsky and LBJ or Truman. Since you don't I think the characterization is fair.

Now look who is walking the yellow brick road.

Hillary can't win the nomination, and she knows it. So why is she still running?

She's (pick one)...
* fundraising to pay off her debt.
* leveraging the VP job, a cabinet post, or Supreme Court appointment.
* trying to make Obama lose so she can run in 2012.
* trying to get the Ring of Power so she can rule Mordor.
* learning to use the dark side of the force so she can help the Emperor can crush the Jedi.

I'd love to see Hillary on the Supreme Court. She could take Scalia with one hand tied behind her back.

Here's a comment from that article link Jamie posted: "The Democratic hope is that as tempers cool, Obama will be able to mend the broken hearts of Clinton women"

Hope springs fraternal. Not going to happen. Broken hearts, indeed. Puh-leeze. Women are pissed, not broken hearted.

Max: Here is my take on what's happened to the Democrats.
In 2000 a substantial number of left wing Arab apologists and otherwise confused coastal elitists voted for Ralph Nader as a kind of protest against Al Gore, a member of the DLC.
Seeing what they had wrought, they abandoned the idea of third-party politics and, like the evangelicals in the GOP, decided to take over the Democratic Party. In this they were financially assisted by George Soros ... who funded the Huffington Post, MoveOn and contributed mightly to Sen Obama's campaign.
They used the blogs very very successfully to promote their POV and, in Sen Obama, a man with almost no political record, but a powerful gift for delivering a speech, they found their candidate. The fact that he cannot think on his feet, the fact that he needs about four tries to successfully answer a difficult question is of no moment to them.
I lived through and participated in the adulation surrounding the campaigns of JFK and RFK ... we all may have been swept up by something, but at least there was substance behind those two men.
The Obama candidacy often makes me think of Lloyd Bentsen with nostalgia ... if I make myself clear.

Obama would be foolish to make Hillary his VP, but offering her the next open seat on the Supreme Court would be an excellent option for both of them.

Would THAT appease all you Hillary people?

Do you really want McCain win and overturn Roe v. Wade?

Patsi-Yes, but well, the article was written by a man. Men...what're you gonna do with 'em ... can't live with 'em and can't just leave them in the road.

nash: McCain winning means nothing vis a vis the Supreme Court. He doesn't get to just install anyone he wants. Any nominee needs the approval of the Senate ... the Democratic Senate. And, in case you didn't know, except for Elizabeth Dole, all the Republican women are pro-Choice.

Can we all stop arguing for a second and agree that Hillary would be an EXCELLENT Supreme Court justice?

Patsi, Meg -- Emma Goldman, Lithuanian-born American revolutionary to her male colleagues

"If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution"

I'm feeling a lot like Emma these days.

meg: So, you agree with McCain & Bush that we should never engage in diplomacy with our adversaries.

Why don't you go to Iraq and see where that leads.

Good New Statesman article about the hatred of Hillary

http://www.newstatesman.com/north-america/2008/05/obama-clinton-vote-usa-media

Nash: IMHO, Sen Clinton would be wasted on the Supreme Court.
The passion of her life has been children's issues, from her earliest years in public service, while still at Yale Law School.
The sad thing is that she went on the Armed Services Committee to prepare herself to be CinC, bypassing a chance to sit on Labor, Health, and Education.
Now, in light of Sen Kennedy's likely prognosis, she would be sitting on the Committee where she could do the most good, with 8 years of seniority and the chance to make positive change.

Nick: If you hate Obama so much, just vote GOP.

Great points Mag, but remember, Obama touched down in Chicago long before that. The history of relations with Trinity, Rezko, Woods Fund (those groups they supported connected to the ISM crowd), Khalidi occured before 2000. I think you are right on one level, but don't forget that the roots of the switch were working their way into the Left Democrats when Clinton rejected them. When Clinton sided with Barak of Israel and hit Saddam and the Taliban in Afghanistan, they moved both to Nader AND to closer links with those Democrats they hoped would eventually take power. Obama built his career on this assumption while being careful to project an IMAGE that was capable of Morphing, which was why his books were so flitered and fictionalized. Even then he knew his aspirations and the need for credible deniability. Well, maybe not so credible,

Maggie

Do you have a copy of the Ragtime soundtrack? I love the song "The Night That Goldman Spoke at Union Square"

This is a small theater production. They didn't have the broadway clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G--akKe_WA

Nash we are and have always been engotiating. Why are you so dense? And how did not engotiating in Iraq lead to our invasion, even if that dumb claim were true? You are saying Iraq is a function of not negotiating with Saddam? Or do you even know what you are saying?

Afghanistan, Iran, Hamas, Sudan, Somalia, Syria, Hizb'Allah is really a failure to negotiate? And negotiate what? Even Obama who deludes himslef in thinking we do not do any negotiating says negotiatng may very well lead to nothing. And how did Reagan, Truman, JFK negotiate? Any thing like Obama suggests? Did Carter negotiate the Soviets out of Afghanistan after he baited them in? Did Carter even negotiate the hostages back home?

What was your point? Pray tell?

Naw, my lunch hour is over........

maggisd: re: Supreme Court & McCain. The Republicans have learned to use "stealth" appointees, ones who have no prior judicial opinions or publications that define their positions. (Roberts & Alito are examples). All McCain needs to do is find a reputable lawyer who has no track record on Roe v Wade, but privately agrees to kill it, and it's "mission accomplished." The Senate usually approves SC appointees, unless it can find a "smoking gun."

crap, see what I get by posting AND eating? sorry for the typos all....have fun

Max-Actually, I think you are right that the roots of the disagreement goes farther back than 2000. Actually, I remember enough of the 50s to remember the Eleanor Roosevelt wing of the Party vs the more conservative wing of the party. In some respects, the tension has always been there ...

Why don't you go to Iraq and see where that leads.
Posted by: nash

nash, is that the only way you can think of to get rid of me. Send me to Iraq.

To answer your question, no, I don't agree with Bush or McCain. I hate the war. I hate all wars, always have. I hate war hawks. So for you to say that to me is unfair, but I can't really say it feels unfair, because you'll say all Hillary and I do is complain and point fingers.

I have a good life Nash. I can step out my door and be in the middle of 5 acres of forest. I can look out a few hundred feet and see my horses grazing. Many of the trees, both pines and oaks are over 75' or 80' and there are a countless number of the, some of which are a 100 years old, no doubt.. In the mornings, sometimes the song birds are all I can hear, except for the sound of all the small animals I am surrounded by. So, I have to admit, life is good.

And why I come here to hear that I should go to Iraq is beyond me. But apparently there's something here I'm after, I guess. And I don't really resent you saying these things to me. I understand and I even like you. Call me crazy.

Barack Obama’s Candidacy As A Take on The Picture of Dorian Gray

"What emerges from Dr. Diamond’s analysis is that Barack Obama has never been a “blank slate,” as so many commentators have portrayed him. He’s a blank slate only for people who are not well informed about the authoritarian Leftist faction that William Ayers represents. The terror of the situation is that such people make up a majority of the American electorate."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/23/barack-obamas-candidacy-as-a-take-on-the-picture-of-dorian-gray/#more-2661

Max: At least my comments are concise. Yours are like Stephen King novels. (I start reading but get bored and never finish them.)

Jamie: Do you mean soundtrack of the movie Ragtime? One of my all-time favorites, but I don't remember the song. Was there a play as well?

I'd have to tell you a lot more of my family history to let you know how big a fan I am of Emma Goldman. Suffice it to say that my grandfather, who let quite an interesting life, was a Wobblie in his youth ... both grandparents from immigrant families lived between Milwaukee and Chicago and were about as progressive as one could be in those days. Have many family friends and relatives who were blacklisted in the 40s and 50s ....
I have to chuckle sometimes that I now find myself in what seems to be the centrist, more conservative wing of the Democratic Party ... times have passed me by, I guess.

Oh, and Nash, why not spend less time in fantasy and more time dealing with facts? It is bad to predict what Obama says he will do, but better to guess how McCain is really evil and tar him with "mission accomplished" despite McCain's outrage over Bush's incompetence in Iraq? Go ahead and play that fear-mongering, guessing, association game, but don't cry when that lands on Obama in spades.

No, I GUESS the double standard and peversion of logic is your forte. And Bush blew up the WTC too? Is he watching you know on the Nanny cam? McCain has a history you would like to flush away with your paint by Bush paint set? His miltary back ground makes him dangerous? He is an arch conservative? Please keep posting. We need your clarity over the next several months. You are more of a help to McCain than I can ever be.

Have fun with that.

Max

maggisd: Hillary could now follow Kennedy's example ( he lost the nomination in 1980) and return to the Senate to become a real power there, a key committee chair or even majority leader.

The question is, does she know when to quit, or does she keep going and damage the party.

Kennedy kept going too long in 1980, hurt Carter, and that helped Reagan get elected.

At the end of the primary process, Hillary Clinton will have more votes than Barack Obama..even excluding Michigan.

Barack Obama refused to support revotes in Michigan and Florida..the old politics..

Hillary Clinton..the choice of the voters!!!!

Gordo: I personally find that there is an appalling lack of historical knowledge among many people nowadays. I really think it has to do with the internet ... in the olden days when people religiously read their daily newspapers, there were always pieces that include historical analysis, references to past occurrences relevant to the current news.
Except for CNN, which does occasionally do longer special presentations, current news stations just do not include historical perspective. And the internet, while it is superb for looking things up, does not often lead one on to the next subject .... except for Wikipedia.

One of the best analysts on MSNBC these days is Mike Barnicle. He really has an informed view of the Obama vs Clinton conflict, and all of it's implications.

(He's also a dead ringer for my brother-in-law, including the Boston accent, but I don't hold that against him.)

Hmmm ...... Ever notice how many like to Label the people of KY & WV, but they don't live there???

NICK: loved how you throw this question out there, { Can Obama dance like a brother?} hehehe they never answer you, wonder why?

If my posts are like several hundred page novels, no wonder you lack much knowledge. Try reading a book sometime. Go to Stubborn Facts and post a coherent train of thought. I dare you. But you won't because coherent is something your definition of concise lacks. You stay in the short because you have no factual back up. You refute no questions because you have no empirical rebutal. You cheer and jeer and speculate without evidence or proof or logic. So keep posting. You make McCain's case every day to the extent he can associate Obama supporters with Obama.

Sorry if I can't respond further. I am late already.
So take your shots after I leave, unlike what I do to my opponents........

nash: I hope I don't sound too hyperbolic when I say that people who blame Ted Kennedy for Carter's loss in 1980 are delusional. Double digit inflation, the highest interest rates in the history of the country, hostages in Iran, the President using the Rose Garden campaign strategy, or sitting around in his cardigan in the Oval Office while this hugely charismatic Californian went all over the country talking about Sunshine in America ... or whatever.
Some of us knew what Ronald Reagan really was, but far too many didn't ... and, as with certain other candidates who take the fancy of the media, no one bothered to vet him ... heck, even though I thoroughly despised old Ronnie, even I got a tear in my eye when I saw him tearing up when they played the National Anthem.
Here is something to ponder, however ... if the Dems had not nominated Jimmy Carter from out of nowhere, on the sole promise that he would never lie to us, or if Gerald Ford had managed to pull it out in 76 (as he almost did), where might the country be now?

nash: Mike Barnicle? OMG ...

meg: What I said was to go to Iraq and SEE where an unwillingness to negotiate leads. (Observe the outcome of the policy.) Bush & his cowboys don't want to negotiate with anyone. They think "diplomacy is for sissies."

Right now they are gearing up to for an air attack on Iran. When you criticize Obama for wanting to use diplomacy, you are buying into their "international relations by conquest" policy.

Viv: With regard to the people of WV and KY, who seem to have gotten the reputation of being ignorant racists ... I recommend to everyone Sen Jim Webb's book Born Fighting ... about the Scots-Irish who settled the Appalachians.
I am an amateur genealogist and I know that the people who settled that area ... all the way into So Illinois, Indiana, Arkansas, and Missouri were deeply religious people who disliked government and hated slavery. Early settlers of SW Indiana were required either to manumit their slaves or leave the state and return without them ... free blacks could always vote in those states (men, that is).
I suspect that the reason some people said yes when asked if race were a factor in their vote was that there was no option that asked them if background was a factor in their vote .... I always come back to Harold Ford Jr, who polled as well as he did in the TN election and who probably would have won if he hadn't gone to that Playboy party.

maggisd: I said that Kenndey's actions "helped" to elect Reagan. I didn't say that they were the only reason Reagan won. Kennedy took his losing fight all the way to the 1980 convention, and then, when Carter prevailed, he and his followers did little to help Carter win. This scenario could play about again this year, if Clinton takes her fight all the way to the convention.

I thank Mike Barnicle for reminding us of these events and pointing out the similarity to today's conflict.

nash: You keep talking as if this were a zero sum game. Just because one thinks that the US President shouldn't sit down with someone such as Ahmadinijad doesn't mean that one supports bombing the crap out of Iran.

Well, It's been a good discussion today.

I have to go outside and see if I can start my lawn mower, or have a heart attack trying. (Don't get your hopes up, Hillary people. The local hospital has WiFi.)

Maggie

Broadway musical based on the Doctorow book. Absolutely magnificent score. Won Tony as Best Musical and Audra McDonald won her first Tony as best actress in a musical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragtime_(musical)

nash: I remember 1980. Nothing Kennedy could have done would have helped Jimmy Carter, despite what Mike Barnicle says. And all the other talking heads. I would remind you that, aside from 1960, each time a Californian has run for President, he has won ... geography trumps politics, in most cases.
Mike Barnicle is a human interest columnist. He is neither a politician nor a political analyst. His opinions are his opinions, but they are really worth very little.

p.s.

I'm play it now while surfing. Just mention Goldman and it sort of goes on by itself. : )

nash,
Contrary to some opinions here, I am not a bumbling "idiot" (according to at least one at least). I understood your point. I've never agreed with Bush & his cowboys, as you correctly put it.

But I also think your point was meant to be mean. And that's ok, I was doing the same. Let's call it what it is though. If you felt the need to explain something to me, provide a piece of information that you didn't think I was considering, then explain away. I come here with an open mind and plan to listen and learn a lot from all of you.

But you're sure not going to open my mind with insults. It slams the door shut. Rest assured, I got your point, I get your point.

Jamie: I thought I remembered that it had been staged as a Broadway musical ... I think I even saw the Tony awards that year.
Ragtime is one of my all-time favorite books (my daughter as well) ... and I loved the movie. I was just dazzled by the man who played Coalhouse Walker Jr (sorry I've forgotten his name but he later was in Heat of the Night on TV) ... of course, with my background I identified more with the immigrant family ... I've always liked Doctorow ...

Nick.------------- Do chickens walk like ducks, or do ducks walk like ducks?

If you start liking what Nash writes I may have to begin calling you crazy. Smile Posted by: Nick

Nick, that's okay. I was serious. I've been called crazy on numerous occasions. And occasionally I'm sure it reflects the truth.

Maggie

Just found out recently one thing where I agree wholeheartedly with Sen. Obama. Apparently Doctorow is one of his favorite authors.

Ragtime is a magnificent book. It even reads as if it was written while that type of music was playing with its long and short passages. It totally captures a unique period in American history.

Rhapsody had the score. You can listen to some of the cuts

http://www.rhapsody.com/stephenflahertyandlynnahrens/ragtimethemusical

Crazy is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Kerry = BO DNC = looney bin

It was interesting listening to the first hour of news roundup on the Diane Rehm Show this morning...... it was hosted by Katy Kay of the BBC because Ms Rehm is doing a tour in New England this week....

there were 2 other women on the panel.... Karen Tumulty of Time magazine and Laura Meckler of The Wall Street Journal.....

they reported that they are finding very angry women who are fed up with the sexism of the media and the Democratic party wherever they go on the campaign trail......

Ms Meckler said that she was astonished at the anger and comments coming even from many Republican women.....

they all agreed that the Obama camp shouldn't think these feelings will just magically dissolve in the general election....

Jamie: I could not agree with you more about Ragtime. Doctorow is what I call a conscious author ... that is to say that -- like Joan Didion -- he does more than just write fiction ... he is to novels what Francis Ford Coppola is to movies ... there is always another layer that deserves to be explored.
I don't know what the fashion is nowadays in American Lit classes ... but I suspect he is probably not taught.

Mike Barnicle
who did he steal it from?

Kennedy's attack on an incumbent president is hardly the same as an open primary.

Jamie: Thanks for the URL.

Nash we are and have always been negotiating. Why are you so dense? Posted by: Maxtrue | May 23, 2008 12:05 PM

Max, I love reading your stuff.
You put a smile on my face.
Keep writing. Please.

Jamie: Sent that on to my daughter ... also a Ragtime fan, and an Emma fan (Reds is one of our favorite movies). She is currently making a quilt out of old T-shirts, including my Emma Goldman and my "fish without a bicycle" ... she was born into the wrong generation, I think.

Weather report ... there was a tornado in Riverside County California yesterday. And, we have had 900 small earthquakes this month.
Yikes!

And a light dusting of snow in the San Diego County mountains last night. Good grief, Charlie Brown!

Does anbody know the actual place the rules committee is going to meet on May 31st. I wonder if it will be open to the public. I know Donna said the press will be welcome to attend.

Renee: With all the talk about Republicans crossing over for Obama, what has been overlooked is how many Republican women crossed over for Hillary. Hillary really resisted making her campaign about gender in the beginning, but I think it was a mistake. If you are part of the majority, you ought to at least speak to that majority.

Nick, I knew you were just kidding. And i smiled.
I just seem to be having a problem communicated today.

communicated-communicating I meant.

vadaryl: Meetings are usually in DC. Also usually broadcast on C-Span. I don't know if the general public is welcome to attend, but if you have a DNC membership card, perhaps you can be admitted.

"Sexism" is just Hillary's latest cynical gambit.

Hillary's definition of sexism: "Any criticism of Hillary."

I had no idea she was a feminist. I've NEVER heard her use the term to describe herself. And I imagine that most of the women that support her don't like the term either.

Maggisd,

You've had a couple of comments today regarding what you believe is the overwhelming support of women for Clinton.

Looking at exit polls from OR and IN, two very different States, and the data those statements. i.e.

Female voting IN = 52 to 48 for Clinton, OR= 52/48 for Obama,

Looking closer at both results, it's obvious that women 18-49 vote Obama in almost double the margin as do the over 64 women do for Clinton.
Why the big disconnect? I guess the older women know better or something. right? :)

sorry word omission: belies those statements.

Nash: Who said anything about sexism or Hillary as a feminist. I spoke of gender and the fact that she is one of the majority in America.
However, are you suggesting that there has been no sexism on display in this campaign?

I haven't left the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party left me.

Posted by: prof marcia | May 23, 2008 7:36 AM

I couldn't agree more. Where were all those supposedly enlightened Democrats when Sen. Clinton was being called the B word and more early on, like when one of McCain's supporters asked him How do we beat the B and he actually laughed and replied Excellent Question !!!!!!!!! Emily's List is trying to get CNN to ban Castellanos, but we should have shown our outrage earlier on, IMHO

Nick; exactly!! when they do answer & give a link for proof, it's usually a Obama love fest site, lol

Maggisd: Yes, I know .. i walked right into that with them last night, but when you are hearing this "BS" over & over again, it gets my blood boling ...

I've talked to alot of women around KY & they are pissed off big time w/the party & especailly BO ...

Nash

"And I imagine that most of the women that support her don't like the term either."

What would we do without the benefit of you doing our thinking for us. It would be so difficult to "trouble our little heads with important ideas"

Hillary & the feminists:

"This rather dramatic change of heart encapsulates one of the great ironies of Hillary Clinton's bid for the presidency. Many of the very same feminists who were her most ardent supporters as First Lady are now fiercely opposed to her historic bid to become the first female President of the United States. The woman once described by Susan Faludi as a symbol of "the joy of female independence" now evokes ambivalence, disdain and, sometimes, outright vitriol. The right wing's favorite "femi-nazi" now has to contend with Jane Fonda comparing her to "a ventriloquist for the patriarchy with a skirt and a vagina."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/15/opinion/main2934136.shtml

Interesting I finally found a site that has some names of the people who are on the rules committee. I found it on Obama's web site.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/stevepeters/gGCMMJ

I guess the older women know better or something. right? :)
Rezdog

It's true that the younger someone is, the more of them he gets to vote for him. He targets colleges. And it's also true that younger women have not experienced the same discrimination as was experienced by those living through different times. So they do see things differently. And, you have to be older to know this, but your values change as you age, and everyone that ages will have to wait and see.

But your point is not missed. We've heard the "uneducated and old women" descriptions that some of you like to banter around. Just as others like to say Obama can't win with "eggheads and liberals". But let's not resort to that.

Rezdog: I did not mean to suggest that Hillary has overwhelming support among all women. To the contrary, I feel that she ran away from her gender and from gender-specific issues in a way that hurt her campaign more than it helped ... until it was too late.

As to older women knowing better. Yes, we do. Those of us who came to adulthood before affirmative action, title 9, etc are eternally grateful that our daughters and granddaughters have no idea what we're talking about when we express gender solidarity.

They have never had to take a pregnancy test to qualify for a job, never been told that they could not follow the profession for which they trained because they were married, never had to write a letter to a mortgage company affirming that they practiced birth control in order to have their income count toward the purchase of a home, never been denied credit in their own name because they were married, never been denied health insurance at their own place of employment because their husband already has insurance, probably never been called sweetie and patted on the rear by their boss and had to take it ... and, unlike Hillary, never been told by the Dean of Harvard Law that there were already too many women at the Law School.

Here's some info on attending the rules committee meeting

http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/05/register-to-attend-rbc-meeting.html

vadaryl, this one has some of it too.

DNC Elects Standing Committee Leadership for 2008 Democratic National Convention

http://www.demconvention.com/dnc-elects-standing-committee-leadership-for-2008-democratic-national-convention-2/

"And I imagine that most of the women that support her don't like the term either."

So we now find the truth behind Nash, just as we did about Karo....Nash is a feminist hater. Loves Phyllis, Miribelle et al. Hates feminism. Has been waiting to have the opportunity to openly oink.

Nash reminds me of a college teacher I once had (although I don't think Nash really is a teacher, he just plays one on the internet...). This teacher showed up every morning at the 7:30 class reeking of scotch and railing about women. Turns out his wife had just left him. One of my history profs told me the guy was considered one of the two or three dumbest teachers on campus.

another link

http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/04/rules-and-bylaws-committee-membership.html

Busloads of Hillary Clinton supporters will swarm a meeting next week at a D.C. Marriott, where Democratic Party elders hope to forge a compromise over Florida and Michigan's now-voided convention delegates.
"We really don't know what to expect, but we do know that the Clinton people are very organized," said a senior Democratic National Committee source.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/22/clinton-supporters-plan-t_n_103100.html

I noticed that among the new delegates for Hillary (none of whom seem every to be mentioned on TV) is Martha Coakley of Massachusetts. I believe that she was the prosecutor who tried the Nanny case ...

Now how does this committee work? They all have to agree on some method or the majority wins like 16 - 15?

nash: I sincerely hope they are organized. A message needs to be sent that all this nonsense about women just naturally coming over to support the Party is just that ... nonsense.

Patsi: Can you cite one time when Hillary called herself a feminist?

Take a few minutes. Google it.

"It is also true, however, that no Democrat can win without the support of the majority of women voters"-Maggisd

I guess this was one of the ones that caught my attention.

You make some good points about the experiences of older women. I agree. But aren't we going forward and not looking backwards with our elections.
I don't plan on being around very much longer. Hopefully another 20 years. This is my daughter's time to do her thing with her generation.

vadaryl: When they were voting on the primary schedule, it required just a simple majority. People get to say their piece, other people vote in support and at some point the Chair calls the question and a voice vote is taken and that's that ... much like a Senate or House committee.

This must be driving the Obama folks crazy.

The daily Gallup narrows again from 16 to 7.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/107482/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Leads-Clinton-51-44.aspx

This could be fun. Can't wait until the 31st. Think about this, the Dems will get full press coverage all day long on a Saturday, then Sunday PR primary, then the following Tuesday another set of primaries. McCain will be off the map.

this weekend McCain will get his medical condition coverage. Not to exciting but next weekend it's going to be great.

Maureen Dowd (2/12/08)

"While Obama aims to transcend race, Hillary often aims to use gender to her advantage, or to excuse mistakes."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/13/opinion/13dowd.html

This is my daughter's time to do her thing with her generation.
Posted by: Rezdog

Rez, not getting your point.

Rezdog: Of course we are going forward. But, to some of us going forward means that -- after 218 years of elections, it is time to make a really radical change ... put a woman into office.
Strangely enough, although Sen Clinton had the wisdom to school herself in matters of national security, her real passion and expertise is on the domestic front ... on bread and butter issues. Her expertise is both knowledge-based and instinctive.

Maggisd,

I was just on the phone with my wife, who's in her 50s and worked all her life since she lost her dad at 12. I mentioned some of the things you bring up. and while chuckling she said "no boss would ever have thought to put a finger on me, cause they knew i'd kick their ass". lol

I guess we all get in trouble using generalizations .

BTW. My wife is a rabid Obama mama.

Rezdog: When you say this is your daughter's time ... that is all well and good. But it is also my daughter's time and she supports Hillary. We all have our different opinions, obviously.

Nash: Obama says he aims to transcend race. If this is true, then, why did Michelle so pointedly stress race in so many of her early campaign speeches?

My wife is a rabid Obama mama.
Posted by: Rezdog

Rez, still not getting your point

Meg,

I guess it's kind of a personal opinion. I look at these next couple elections as determining the direction of the next generations (20-50 yrs), not just for my remainder of my life. I think we (boomers) had a chances and choices and it's time for our kids to have the same.

Meg,

no particular point other than my wife is one of those older women who support Obama.

ah yes.....
labels..... labels.... LABELS!
we all know how much those of the far left and the far right looooove their labels...

you know..... how the hell are you gonna know who is who and what is what without them.... "labels".....

being a feminist is not a matter of what you call yourself..... it's how you act...

Rezdog: How one reacts to sexist behavior is often a function of circumstance. When I was married I also might have had a strong reaction. When I became a single mother with no outside support system ... not so much. That's just life ... I'm not complaining so much as I am trying to elucidate why ordinary older working-class women support Hillary so much more strongly than younger women and women who have always had independent lives or independent income. There are a lot of older working-class women out there ... even married ones ... who have lived lives of quiet frustration seldom appreciated by anyone but other women in their circumstances.
BTW, not all working class women are uneducated ... some of us just fell into the category because we had no other options.

Rezdog: You Boomers had your chance and more than your chance. You sucked the air out of the entire second half of the 20th Century.

It has often seemed to me that if, God forbid, former President Clinton had not made it through his bypass surgery, Sen Clinton would be the nominee today. Some women who otherwise might have do not support Sen Clinton because she stood by her husband. Some women understand ... some don't.

I find the term Obama Mama People's Temple-ish.

Patsi: I regret to say that I have found a lot about the Obama campaign to be People's temple-ish ...

Rezdog: And you know what, even if she calls herself an Obama-Mama, you shouldn't.

Maggisd,

Your daughter, she's in the minority with her peers that's all. No big deal. They'll learn that they win some and lose some.

btw ,I never commented about educated/uneducated.

And Nash -- Hillary Clinton has worked for women's causes her entire career. Whether she runs around "calling" herself a feminist is of zero concern to me. Your disdain of women gets more "blech" by the day.

Yeah, Rez, thank you.
I now see your point, but the kids are represented through their vote just like everybody else. And if they show up in mass for Obama, then he'll probably win. It is exciting to see how inspired they are by him. But don;t don't ignore the fact that the President will represent all generations, regardless of their age and what generation they're from. And to make this a battle of the generations makes no sense. If you like Obama, make it about something more than age. Like a more prosperous future.

Our supporting Hillary doesn't mean we therefore don't support our kids generation. The separation is not that distinct between what they want and what we want. We probably want a lot of the same things. And not voting for Obama doesn't make us less valuable than women that do vote for him. Just different.

Damn. She's voting for Obama! better. sheesh (thx Jamie) :)

You Boomers. LOL, Yes ma'am!

Maggisd,

Funny you say that about Bill Clinton, because my older sister (66) all but told me she's only voting for Hillary because of Bill. Kinda of a twofer thing, I guess.

Rezdog: As my daughter says ... "Sick and tired of those boomers and their fat-free lives."

Kinda of a twofer thing, I guess.
Posted by: Rezdog

Kinda sarcastic, I guess.

Rez, you've got to stop all this sweet talk.

Rezdog? "Your daughter, she's in the minority with her peers that's all. No big deal. They'll learn that they win some and lose some. "
That's not true, my daughter first was leaning towards BO, but after she saw how he was treating Hillary, she said no way! .. not just that, she's a manager AMC Theater & most of the youth there agree with her .. they do not like BO at all even the AA's ..

Rezdog: I know that some voters feel that way, but I also know that another substantial number of voters do not. And, I do not think that Sen Obama could have used the notion of the divisiveness of the 90s, or so easily dismissed the Clinton Presidency if Pres Clinton were not so prominently alive and well and on the campaign trail. It's just a thought that came to me at some point when the talking heads started quivering about the idea of Bill Clinton back in the White House.

Careful Rez, we'll send one of those "Obamamama's" after you.

Rezdog: Compliment your sister for me and tell her that she was born in a superior year and sounds like an intelligent and lovely woman. I had a baby brother as well ... I hope the two of you have as close and wonderful a relationship as we did.

Meg,

I think when they start really dissecting this election cycle, generational dynamics will be more important to the discussion than gender or race, imho.

Is anyone dropping by Brooklyn or London to take a peek through the Telectrascope?

http://www.comcast.net/news/science/telectroscope/slideshow/view/

darn, hit the button too soon .. most of those I was talking about, are going to college PT while working at AMC ..

ugh, need to get off of here, pains too great today ... maybe later can discuss some more ..

!:^)

I threw in the towel awhile back but I am still looking to withdraw it, I will give up all hope when Carville writes out his check to Obama. Do others agree?

I think when they start really dissecting this election cycle, generational dynamics will be more important to the discussion than gender or race, imho.
Posted by: Rezdog

Undoubtedly, Rez.
The voters will let us know..
Just remember there's your side and there's my side.
or, as I like to say,
There's two sides to every argument,
my side and the wrong one.

my side and the wrong side...darn those typos

Rezdog: I have read several articles that point out that young voters are turning out in percentages no greater than they did for Kerry.
The difference may be 1) the level of enthusiasm, and 2) the larger cohort.
The younger generation now coming of age are, in fact, the largest generation ever ... larger even than the Boomers. And, in fact, mostly the children of Boomers.

We will not know everything until some time after the GE, but it will be interesting to see the dynamics there. I kind of think, looking at the projected electoral map as it now stands, that most children will be voting pretty much as their parents did / do ... and, among items of interest IMHO, will be what happens with the Hispanic vote in places where they are the majority minority.

James please wait for a couple of weeks, so we can have some fun next weekend.

vadaryl: I will give up all hope when the votes are cast on the floor of the Convention.

Now I got to hope that the Supers wait for a few weeks too.

I will give up all hope when Carville writes out his check to Obama. Do others agree? Posted by: vadaryl

Carville's the man.
I heard him not long ago say he still talks to Bill almost everyday. And he said he still addresses him as Mr. President, out of respect. Can you imagine talking to Bill every day. My God! (I know I just left myself open to sarcastic remarks again, but live dangerously)

vadaryl: I will give up all hope when the votes are cast on the floor of the Convention. Posted by: maggisd

maggi, you are my inspiration. Who needs Obama.

vadaryl: Don't forget that no Superdelegate vote is worth anything until it is cast with the votes of the rest of the delegation.

Let's say that Hillary just suspends and goes back to the Senate while McCain and Obama campaign through the summer. And then let's say that, for whatever reason, the polls start to show that John McCain is moving ahead of Sen Obama in enough states that it looks as if McCain will win going away. At that point the superdelegates could still switch their votes to Hillary...not saying they would, because we Dems love to go down with a sinking ship...but they still could.

Meg: I think it's just grand that Carville talks to Pres Clinton almost every day ... that's true friendship and respect.

I guess if we here the captain of Hillary's ship, we would not jump off, we would go down with the ship. But I am only a passenger and already jumped but I am hanging on the side hoping someone will pull be back onboard.

I think it's just grand that Carville talks to Pres Clinton almost every day ... that's true friendship and respect.
Posted by: maggisd

And show's how important Carville is to him. Loyalty is high on the Clinton's list.

Here's my thing with President Clinton ... I was not an avid fan at first ... his speeches used to make me fall asleep, in fact. But gradually I began to see that he really meant to do good, if he could, and that he knew how to get things accomplished ... that he knew sometimes a half a loaf was better than none. And I grew to admire him a great deal ... I think the 90s were just fine, and I deeply resent that Sen Obama would not and did not give him his due. When I heard Mrs Obama talk about not being able to keep your own house in order, and heard what Pastor Wright had to say, and then heard Sen Obama going out of his way to diss the only successful Democratic President since FDR, I figured that here was someone trying to turn the party on its head ... not sure that's something I want to do.

Base on Carville loyalty is why I will give up all hope when he writes out that check.

vadaryl: If the ship goes down, one has to jump. But the ship hasn't yet gone down. Writing in her name is wasting a perfectly good vote. What one has to do if it's Obama v McCain (and we really won't know until August) is decide whether you trust the Democratic Congress to bring McCain back to the moderate center or whether you are comfortable with one-Party government when all the power resides in the left wing of the Party.

I know look at the supreme court too.

Meg: I think loyalty is high on Carville's list as well. That's why he was so so angry with Richardson ... he knows that Richardson has been double dealing since Iowa.

Maybe writing in Hillary's name is a wasted vote but it is a vote against Mccain.

Maggisd,

I know Patsi mentioned voter turnout yesterday, and in reading up on it, I discovered that we define voters pools different than pre-2000 (cohort). Plus, there are more frequent personal methods of connecting with the voters today. i.e. texting, internet. Most importantly, my daughter and her spouse donated to Obama, whereas I was lucky to make it to the polls for GM and the other pre 90s candidates. Things are much different from the boomers and their kids. Thank God!

vadaryl: As I've said before, I'm not worried about the Supreme Court. The Senate needs to affirm any appointment ... and there should be at least three more Dems in the Senate by that time. And, don't forget the Republican ladies of Maine. McCain will have to consult with the Dems and choose a candidate agreeable to all sides. Remember David Souter? That wasn't a mistake.

Rezdog: Well, based on current projections from actual polls, McCain leads Obama substantially in projected electoral votes (and in most of the usual places), while Hillary leads McCain. It will all be very interesting, I suspect ....

When I heard Mrs Obama talk about not being able to keep your own house in order, and heard what Pastor Wright had to say, and then heard Sen Obama going out of his way to diss the only successful Democratic President since FDR maggisd

Maggi, those things were hurtful to me too.
And, do you remember how Bill Clinton used to be called a flip-flopper because of his willingness to negotiate and compromise. That was and is his greatest asset, that and common sense. Some peoples intelligence seems be absent of common sense, not his. He has it all (in my opinion).

He's a strong a strong diplomat, which is so important for a President. He angered his own party at times, reaching across the aisle. These are things I see in and admire in Hillary. An unbelievable grasp of issues, memories like elephants, an ability to navigate around the system, a connection with the average guy...well, on and on.

Gotta go ... time to watch the golf tournament.

Maggisd,

Here's one that has them tied as of today, using 50day poll averages.I guess it depends on the source lol

http://electoralprojection.blogspot.com/

BTW , the site owner supports McCain

By Gene Lyons as posted on BartCop.

http://www.bartcop.com/lyons-obama-suffer.htm

If Hillary Clinton had no other reason to keep running for the nomination, it would be to demonstrate that Tim Russert, Keith Olbermann, Maureen Dowd, David Broder and the Beltway media gas bags don’t decide American elections. Last week, Obama, the supposedly inevitable Democratic nominee, lost the West Virginia primary by 41 points. Democrats haven't taken the presidency without winning the Mountain State since 1916.

To use a geographically appropriate metaphor, if there has ever been a canaryin-a-coal-mine primary, that was it. Naturally, the media consensus saw a meanignless result in a race they'd already called for Obama. Evidently, bitter West Virginia rednecks don’t watch cable TV. In 2000, the same pundit chorus
urged Al Gore to quit in Florida for the sake of the country (and the Republican Party ). Everybody knows how that worked out. Today, Gore’s a Nobel laureate. George W. Bush, like Obama a uniter not a divider became the most unpopular, ineffective president in U.S. history. Ever heard any media princelings explain how they went so comprehensively wrong ? Me neither.

I would like to point out that Krolenna said that Hillary beat Obama 55% to 29% in uneducated SE Ohio. I believe that is where Ohio St. University is located. 'Nuff said. LOL! Maybe Hillary should use this as her campaign song....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygqew4RxIg8

Speaking of women voting, "Iron Jawed Angels" is on HBO today.

Edwards did well with the uneducated , too.

What's a slamp?

If I hear the word "notion" one more time...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm0enKitJ3w

"My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. I don't understand it."

For all you mind-readers here, who know what Obama was thinking and planning back when he in elementary school,or moving to and working around Chicago; please let me know what you think is on Hillary's mind when she said the above to an editorial board today.

Hillary's comments make no sense without seeing what question she was responding to. Does anyone know what she was asked? The fact that in these hysterical reports no one has stated what she was asked makes me suspicious.

"What could I say to finally kill off my campaign for good?" - Hillary Clinton.

That's probably what she was thinking.

Here'e the video if interested:

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080523/FRONTPAGECAROUSEL/80522033&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

Kudos Mr. Crawford to you and your other brother Craig.... I absolutely loved it.

As I passed over MSNBC today I saw a printed statement that said, "Bill considering the VP post for Hillary." Excuse me, but who was it said that there was no misogyny in this race. How very, very crude and insulting.

I have a question about the MSM(MSNBC and CNN). Where have all the Black talking heads(Eugene Robinson, Roland Martin, Michelle Bernard, Jamal and Ms. Rice) come from? At least Donna Brazile has been around a while. This is not racist , it is curiosity. Do they need these people to get a favorable view, if so, why are they promoting this loser???????

She holds the seat of Robert Kennedy in the Senate. She just clarified about the historical example of the late campaign in 1968 and apologized if her remarks were taken to mean anything else other than the history of events.

Some commenters are saying what she said was blown out of proportion. I guess some people will take great offense in what was said , others won't. Just like every statement made in this campaign so far.

Jamie: I agree—she was indicating that a long primary is not all that unusual. Terrible choice of words and a bad example. A gaffe. I don't think it is anything more sinister than that.

Gotcha politics.This is what occurs when everyone starts finding fault with each little comment from these candidates.

I don't know what she was trying to say, but I agree with the person who said, that even if her point is legitimate, surely she is aware of the sensitivity of the subject.

Obama wasn't given the benefit of the doubt by Clinton or her supporters with the "bitter" remarks.

It was a stupid comment on her part.

I take Sen. Clinton at her word. I have no doubt that her intention was not the words that came out. But what a stupid thing to say early Friday. If she'd said this at 5pm leading into the Memorial Day weekend, it'd be forgotten, but now it's got legs.

She knows that now, if someone takes a shot at Obama, unless it kills him, he will win in a landslide.

Rezdog

And saying he had been to 57 states was stupid on his. These things happen. I doubt given her closeness to the kennedys for the past 30 years that any malice was meant either toward them or Sen. Obama.

"This is really bad and it aint going away!"

Oh like you.

Jamie,

There were earlier comments that Obama was speaking about prior to the "bitter" remarks which puts the bitter comments in context. However, Hillary herself used that statement over and over and over, still does, out of context. I agree thing happens and this will hurt her among a few voters.

Clinton apologizes for Kennedy remark:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080523/ap_on_el_pr/clinton

What the media is waiting for is Sen. Kennedy's response to Sen. Clinton's remark. That's going to be the money headline.

I know , that's why I'm voting McCain in November.

So Hillary's made a mistake, so what. The press is going to be forced to report on it, how terrible, just when they had declared it all over.

Just dropping in for a moment, leaving to see Indiana Jones in a few. I just wanted to say that's a great video, Craig, but talking to yourself is a little weird.

I'm an independent voter.

The Obama Learning Curve:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121149958822915813.html?mod=todays_columnists

Hey, I think I did this right......

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/05/this-just-in-huck-cqs-vp.html#comment-87772

Nick, you are just too funny sometimes. Keep up the good work.

Okay, I'll put a little tinfoil hat on.

If Larry Johnson is to be believed I think its a pretty safe bet that Hillary Clinton will not be dropping out of the race any time soon.

There have been previous allusions to some "dirt" the Clintons had on Obama but have not released, you think the tape is the dirt?

Gordo: During the Carter/Reagan election in 1980 there were rumblings about Daddy Bush's role in keeping the hostages in Iran until after the general election. We heard that a lot, unfortunately it never surfaced in time to derail Reagan's campaign.

If there really is such a tape of Michelle I really wonder if it will ever see the light of day as well.

GAKaren ------------------

I followed the "October Surprise" scandal in great detail. There was a deal - no doubt about it. The Iran-Contra Affair was just a continuation of the relationship.

Maybe we haven't come so far after all. Where are today's Alice Paul's

http://www.alicepaul.org/alicepaul.htm

Well, for those who took offense to the insinuation that Obama would need someone to taste his food with Hillary around...

Hey, Nick...brother! I answered your question in my response or did you not read my response. No other response forthcoming or needed. Comprehende! Kapute!

Clinton has her own gaffe to be of concern to her now. How many of you have talked about it in closed rooms with friends, colleagues or family about the possibility of Obama being "shot"? As an Obama supporter, it has come up many, many times. Just two weeks ago at a singles networking “soul support” group of about 80 people over the age of 40 I sat at a table with two gentlemen. One was a Clinton supporter; the other an Obama supporter. All of us said we were afraid Obama was going to be assassinated. The guy next to me, who supports Obama, said directly to me so that the others could not hear “You know he will win and they will shoot him”.

Is Clinton kept so out of touch with the news that she is not aware of these conversations because they are out there and have been going on for months. I even heard that Obama has extra Secret Service protection due to these thoughts from many.

She made a really bad choice of words and it came at a bad time, and here she was waiting for something to happen to Obama. I choose to believe she did not mean a killing but rather a Wright incident, but then she is the one who said “anything can happen”. Then she is also the one who said “I get the white working people’s votes”, as if non-whites don’t work!!! In that case, unfortunately, she was correct in getting those votes. Also, it was BJ Clinton who chose Rev. J. Wright to come to the White House to soothe his discomforts when he was going through the Lewinsky incident only to diss him during this campaign.

"Okay, I'll put a little tinfoil hat on."

Karen,

You'll need one of 1000 square feet rolls of foil to keep up with the G Man.LOL

And the next thing, you'll be posting 1000 word rants about everything wrong with Obama. Although that part probably doesn't bother you . :)

Hillary could say, "The sky is blue" and the O-persons would scream and stamp and holler just like they're doing now.......
kennedy remark my ass.........

to the convention.

Sturge, I'd like you to meet someone. His name is Kettle.

oooooh......slashed again by your coruscating wit........

oy.........

Thanks! I was a bit worried that it would go over your head.

"you'll be posting 1000 word rants about everything wrong with Obama. "

We will need way more words than that.

Jamie,

"Ready for this? Seems that one of the "O" man's delegates from Washington state is none other than Former Army Chaplain James Yee. You remember him don't you? He is the guy that our government accused of being a spy at Gitmo because he was a Muslim, and he had the nerve to tell us about the treatment some of the Muslim prisoners were receiving at the hands of their captors. For being a human being, he was branded a traitor. Apparently Muslims from poor countries don't rank quite as high on the human scale as us god fearing A-merry-cans."-W. Bennett

Rez: LOL. Hey, Gordo/Max/Anon are okay. Everyone has stuff they're into, and they don't believe or trust everything they read or see. They wish to dig a little deeper.

If I've learned anything from the Bush administration and the horror of the past 8 years, it is to question everything. I think there is a tiny tin foil hat on all of us!

And I've always believed that politics is smoke and mirrors. I think that aspect adds to the enjoyment of watching/discussing politics.

James Yee? Uh oh, now Rush and the boys can really call Obama a Muslim! : )

Rezdog

What are you talking about? Why would I object to one of Sen. Obama's delegates being a Muslim. The U.S. Army is supposed to provide religious counsel for all members of the forces.

You've been a good teacher.

No suggestion that you would object, sorry if that was your impression.

I'm sure other will. Maybe he'll be one of those ones that Max thinks will change his mind in Denver. Not!

If it is McCain / Huckabee...I'm out entirely.

I hardly care what any of them say anymore. It is all so twisted and contrived, then the press fills the air with their own insidious opinions.

burned out....
They all lie...at some point in time
They all seem to cheat one way or another....
and I think the hardest work they do is campaigning for the next position.....( for themselves )

Rezdog

That nonsense has been going around about Sen. Obama since the beginning of the campaign. One of the worst things about being a Clinton supporter is that Obama supporters immediately lump you together with every kook and prejudicial crazy who opposes him.

It is one of the things that makes Clinton supporters so adamant in opposing him. He has never once denounced his supporters for their attacks on us. why in the world should we respect him?

Nick,

What's the question?

"He is the guy that our government accused of being a spy at Gitmo because he was a Muslim, and he had the nerve to tell us about the treatment some of the Muslim prisoners were receiving at the hands of their captors. For being a human being, he was branded a traitor."

All true as I recall

Once again Hillary showed her true colors by stating the one of the reasons she's staying in the race is because Bill locked up his nomination and June and RFK was assassinated in June.

I guess she's looking for someone to murder a Presidential Candidate so she could then become the nominee of the party.

She has brought up the murder of RFK twice before and this time is a week after Huckabee joked about someone pointing a gun at Obama.

What a nice candidate you support that's hoping someone kills a Presidential candidate so she could get the nomination as a reason for staying in when there's no other way she could get it.

By the way Nick can you squeal like a pig?

Jamie,
"No suggestion that you would object, sorry if that was your impression."

Are you not reading my replies?

On Leno's man on the street gig....called "Jay-Walking"
3 out of 4 people thought Barack Obama was already President.

NP nick,
I wasn't trying to brand Jamie as a Muslim hater. It was a exclamation statement about the surprise i'm sure to many that Yee would be selected as a del given his storied background.

I supported him also.

Slow news day, makes this hot.

It turns out that Hillary Clinton said something similar regarding RFK and the 1968 race in a Time Magazine interview in March 2008, but there was not an uproar then. Here is what she said in March:

TIME: Can you envision a point at which--if the race stays this close--Democratic Party elders would step in and say, "This is now hurting the party and whoever will be the nominee in the fall"?

CLINTON: No, I really can't. I think people have short memories. Primary contests used to last a lot longer. We all remember the great tragedy of Bobby Kennedy being assassinated in June in L.A. My husband didn't wrap up the nomination in 1992 until June. Having a primary contest go through June is nothing particularly unusual.

Why the fuss now.
What a load of horsepucky

Is it not a common concern of many, that our Presidents and Presidential candidates, could be targets of assassination?

I thought that is why they had the Secret Service on the candidates?

Isn't it?

Now you cannot state history if it offends the delicate sensibilities of the terminally stupid.

Clinton never denied making the statement

There is nothing wrong with what she said.

I think your flounce has a flat.

RFK won the May Primary which was the start of the campaign IIRC in 1968 and was killed four weeks later. It wasn't a long campaign so to even bring it up as a comparison is false since the first Primary this year was in January.

Know the difference between stupidity and Genius?

There are limits to genius.

No nick...

I'm one of the Poor White Working Class Americans.

KO and ass ripping? Hmmm....

Hillary's apology

"I regret that if my referencing that moment of trauma for our entire nation and in particular the Kennedy family was in any way offensive. I certainly had no intention of that whatsoever,

The Kennedys have been much on my mind the last days because of Senator Kennedy, I regret that if my referencing that moment of trauma for our entire nation and in particular the Kennedy family was in any way offensive. I certainly had no intention of that whatsoever.

My view is that we have to look to the past to our leaders who have inspired us, give us a lot to live up to, and I'm honored to hold Senator Kennedy's seat in the United States Senate from the state of New York and have the highest regard for the Kennedy family."

Nick...

Fair enough.

My apologizes, the first Primary was in March in 1968.

I think "Ho Hum" ought to cover johnathan alter..........

Next..............

I hope Craig will post his thoughts on today's big story.

Sometimes people say things they shouldn't and no matter the apology , people will not be satisfied. Critics were waiting for something like this to happen to Hillary.

If Hillary simply said , "I'm sorry. It was wrong for me to say what I said today." It probably wouldn't change anything now , because it had already been said.

They want to hang Hillary high because Obama can't win the GE, if Hillary's support stays strong.

Regarding the remarks made about RFK, whom I adored almost as much as JFK.

When will the MSM stop picking out and spinning anymore of this GOOFY s**t. Are the O-bots so afraid that because she's winning everything except the AA vote that they are going to look so bad after Puerto Rico, especially if FL. & MI. are seated, that they
have to drag up and spin any piece of garbage they can spin, while his highness prince O-bot is playing president instead of basketball.

These sicko reporters, if that's what they truly are and not lobbyists for the left should report and not editorialize. Anyone who thinks this is coming together after June is sadly mistaken. As far as assassination goes, I sincerely hope he is politically, and verbally assassinated, it's about time he paid his dues.....

What I'm saying is that this is just what the opposition wants. She said something that people are gonna look at as indefensible. But , in the end , it doesn't matter. Obama was probably gonna win anyway. This will just help to push Hillary out the door sooner.

Statement from the editor of the Argus-Leader

UPDATE: Argus Leader Executive Editor Randell Beck issued his own statement late Friday: “The context of the question and answer with Sen. Clinton was whether her continued candidacy jeopardized party unity this close to the Democratic convention. Her reference to Mr. Kennedy’s assassination appeared to focus on the timeline of his primary candidacy and not the assassination itself.”

Make of it what you will. If you believe that Hillary Clinton is truly so evil as to wish for anyone's assassination, then you have gone overboard. Even David Axelrod stated he felt it was just an unfortunate misstatement.

some coffin..............some nail.............

she's not getting push out any door, this is a non-issue for her, she will take it to convention - OR - get the deal she wants from Obama

Anyone with brains and common sense knew what she meant. To suggest that she was staying in the race in case something horrible would happen to Obama is not dealing with a full deck and I think a person like that has a soul filled with hatred.

MSNBC thinks they got her, but most voters will not fall for their twisting of the truth.

If people went away like we wanted them to....

Meanwhile, Sen Obama is down in Florida making speeches that make him sound like he is channeling Bebe Netanyahu ... and Senator Clinton is doing better than Obama against McCain in a big way. Current polls actually show her winning in North Carolina against McCain and Obama losing. Is this the John Edwards effect?

corey.........LOL

mamaknows: Sen Clinton references RFK because she holds his old seat in the Senate and because his children support her. And because, at the time he was assassinated, the primary race was far from over ... in fact, it was just getting started.

Pile of crap and just another reason why Clinton supporters will never warm up to Obama and probably not vote for him. This kind of ridiculous craptastic bull-sh-t.

Shall we start on all the Obama "misstatements"
or as they really are lies.

Let's parse his every statement and force his recant things that can be interpreted as wrong.

Someone needs to get me a transcript of Barack Obama’s appearance in West Virginia today. According to this AP report Barack Obama gave a speech today in West Virginia in which he called for, among other things, a “strong and humane” military.

Is he saying our current soldiers are not humane?
Why does he hate the military?

What would Sen Obama know about the military? I have not heard that he's ever visited the troops .... someone can correct me on this if they'd like.

I do not believe Obama is well-suited to be president. That's enough for me, as to why I will not vote for him.

My vote will not be a lie.

Her political future is over. She stated it was one of the reasons for staying in.

If she had dropped out and something did happen to Obama, whether it be one of GORDO's posted coming out stories or if Obama did implode she would have gotten the nomination.

Now there's no way the Democratic Party will ever give it to her let alone a place as VP on the ticket.

And she didn't even offer a sincere apology to Obama for her remark or to the Kennedy's.

Just if anyone was offended apology.

She just destroyed any legacy Bill or her had. What a sad way to a political career.

"Even David Axelrod stated he felt it was just an unfortunate misstatement."

Good, at least somebody is showing some sense. this is having all the makings of the Ferraro incident.
The Obama maniacs are going hyper again and are driving away more people then they can attract. The liberal net roots are starting to be a liability for Obama. Some time he is going to have to do a sistah solja moment on the. If he doesn't then so long barry it's been good to know you.

Jack

BETWEEN THE LINES Jonathan Alter
Hillary Should Get Out Now - Mar 3

"If Hillary Clinton wanted a graceful exit, she'd drop out now—before the March 4 Texas and Ohio primaries—and endorse Barack Obama.

... in Texas and Ohio, where polls show Obama already even or closing fast. She would have to hold off his surge, then establish her own powerful momentum within three or four days."

http://www.newsweek.com/id/114725

(What else Is to be expected from Alter?)

"What a sad way to a political career."

Should have read "What a sad way to a to end her political career.

Anon: She will not apologize to the Kennedys in a press statement. Rest assured she will call the children of RFK, who are personal friends and supporters. She will also call Senator Kennedy. Despite his endorsement of Sen Obama and the outrageous remark he made about her, they have continued to talk and visit in a friendly manner when she has been in the Senate.

If you had to leave your children in the care of either Obama or Clinton, who would you choose?

burrito - easy peasy ... Sen Clinton or Mrs Obama. Sen Obama has already said he's disorganized and tends to misplace things. :-)

UB

Children. Hillary Clinton or Michelle Obama. Both seem to be or have been excellent mothers. Not Sen. Obama. He has already confessed to "losing things".

Maggie beat me in with the same joke.

Well, considering the stakes, it is our children's future that will be shaped by the next administration.

Michelle isn't running.

I do not believe Obama will win the GE..... so it looks like Daddy Mac will be setting the stage, and taking on the responsibility.

Wow - and who would ever have thought that the republicans could win again?

Burrito: You know that old saw ... the Democrats excel at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

I would chose Obama to leave my children with.

But then I'm just a poor working white American.

BTW , Holland , MI . is gonna be on Dateline on NBC, It's on right now.

Jamie: Sorry about that ... I used to type medical reports for a living, and I'm still pretty fast on the keyboard.

Corey is that your town?

Corey: I'll be sure and watch it when it's that time out on the West Coast ...

It's a sad story , but justice was served in the end. BTW , my family used to stay at the motel in tonight's story on Dateline.

Corey: I live right across the river from Cinti, Ohio, in Northern, Ky .. in the SE Ohio .. there are 11, regular & specialties colleges ...

!:^}

Corey - sounds interesting. Friday is one of the worst night's on TV ... I was going to watch replay of today's action in Golf -- my boy Phil Mickelsen is in the lead -- but I'll opt for Dateline instead.

burrito: ROFL ... that was a good one. Good old KO ... never had an opinion he was willing to keep to himself.

Viv: I know a lot about that area ... from doing genealogy and also because my ex lives in Greene County Ohio ... that is beautiful country there ... although I must say that I once drove through the third worst rainstorm ever in KY ... only two that were worse was one in El Paso and another just outside Laramie WY ...

I just finished reading KO's Comment .. he links her comment to talking about BO getting Shot,. that SOB!!

If people hadn't noticed the comment, no one would have picked up on thqat, except BO & his fans ..
But KO spread it all out for everyone to thinkt hat's what she ment .. he makes me so sick & to think .. I use to enjoy his shows .. before he turned into a spilt personality ...

Viv: Which county, if you don't mind my asking. One line of my family floated downriver from Harrison Co KY to So Indiana about 1807...another branch were in Boone and Campbell Co until about the 1840s.

Viv: That has become his game. He selects what he thinks are nuggets out of events and then puts his own spin on it ... as when he landed on her about the 3:00 a.m. call ad ... he has become outrageous.

KO has always been known as an "ass" of sorts. That has followed him his whole career.

Maggisd: Yes, I know that is what I was saying when I stated "we know what she meant". However, not everyone is as old as me on this blog and back then when I was young I followed politics and remember all those assassinations in the 60's. Hillary was saying that Robert Kennedy was still in the primaries in June (like she will be) when he was assassinated. That is all she was saying.

If Obama had said this, the media would have dismissed as a poor choice of words and maybe he is tired. You know he is always made out to be the victim.

Maggisd, I wanted to tell you how much I enjoy your posts and all the others who write here with a common sense "keyboard". God, I wish some of the other posters had those keyboards.

mammaknows: Thank you for the kind words. You are someone whose posts I look for as well.
I, too, remember those dreadful days. I was living in Indiana and had gone to see RFK on his whistle stop tour, just before the Indiana primary. I took my daughter with me when I went to vote. In those days I had to wake up at 5:00 a.m. to get her to childcare and me off to work ... and I heard the dreadful news on the radio. I took my poor daughter's little plastic water pistols and just smashed them. And that night, I took my husband's gun down from the shelf and drove into town and turned it over to the sheriff.
I have always felt that I knew Hillary, and I agree with you entirely ... it's too bad that we are often blamed not just for what we say but for what other people think we mean.

Maggisd .. YES, we DO .. !:^) even if you live in the city, you do not have to go far to find nature .. and yes, lol .. we do have our horrible T-storms here .. getting ready for another one right now .. even though it hurts me, love the rain & clouds .. especailly right afterwaerds & everything smell so fresh ..

Oh my, lol ... my daughter can't wait to leave here & start her own life, but I love it here ...

And of course all the news people who went around saying that if she became VP, Obama would need a food taster didn't cause so much as a ripple. They keep spreading this meme that she is Lucretia Borgia just waiting for his demise. It's nauseating and our oh so noble media are the worst offenders and MSNBO spreads the manure far and wide.

Obama graduated with a J.D. magna cum laude from Harvard in 1991, and his mother dies in 1995, the same year his book about his father is published.....and now he whines about his Mother's medical costs......?...where was he as her son?

not my kind of guy.

He'll exploit his dead mother for a vote.

I often wonder about the Hillary haters. They believe that the Clintons are at the same time shrewdly calculating but also so stupid that they deliberately make remarks designed to offend people. Sometimes people just say things that don't come out the way they meant them to. Period. And then they apologize and try to explain what they meant to say. And people of good will give them the benefit of the doubt.

I'm in Campbell , the farest tip of Ky, lol

It must be the 10:00 Dateline.

Jamie: Not just the hired help at MSNBC but all their outside contributors. It's gotten pretty bad when the kindest words said about Hillary today came from Pat Buchanan and David Axelrod.

Maggs: yeah, I know .. but to think he USE too take up for Hillary not too long ago .. think that's why it's bothered me so much, ..

Well, then, we have something in common. My g-g-grandmother on my father's side was born in Campbell Co. My aunt (now 85) remembers her from her childhood...she would sit in her rocking chair, smoking her pipe in the evening. As was common in those days, she buried three husbands...finally wound up living off a Civil War pension.

They don't like her because she stands in the way of their Obama. She is the thorn in Obama's side. If he wins the GE and screws up as President, everyone will say Hillery would have been better. If he looses the GE everyone will blame the loss on Hillary for a long divisive primary. Hillary is what makes Obama look "bad"..... unqualified, inexperienced, green, naive, ect.

It is no wonder they don't like her.

Viv: It's interesting to me that when it seemed that Sen Clinton was the frontrunner, they were all in her corner. But, somehow, after NH ... after Eugene Robinson talked about "the Bradley effect" and the Obama campaign (not him, his campaign surrogates) began accusing the Clintons of being racists, they all just turned -- they accepted the accusations without ever analyzing what was happening. Even when Russert produced that talking points memo from South Carolina it was never mentioned again ... Sen Obama said he didn't approve of it and that was that.

yeah, looks like .. my Dad's Grandma did both .. pipe & chewing tobacco .. she lived fown in the Mt, Hazzard ... ohh, and the bed were feather beds .. ahhh nothing is more comfortable .. well .. it was .. now days, need a very firm matteress, lol

Burrito Hillary is what makes Obama look "bad"..... unqualified, inexperienced, green, naive, ect.

It is no wonder they don't like her.

You got that in one.

Actually, need to find the link ,but there's a speach BO did back in Jan, that pretty much set the mood of his campaign .. he'd make snide remarks & his fans would run with it .. all the MSM being on his side, just fueled the flames .. since we all know .. the MSM has always had it out for the Clintons ... will se if I can find that article .. got it of a Hillary forum ..

Viv: LOL -- I know what you mean about the feather bed and the firm mattress. Although to tell the truth, I often wind up falling asleep on the couch.

Viv , I have a friend who's brother runs an antique auction during the Spring and Summer in Northern Kentucky. They live in the Cincinnati area. I think it's every 3rd weekend of the month.

On that Dateline story at 10:00...When my sister went to Hope College in the early 1980's here in Holland , my family and I would stay at the Blue Mill Inn. The Blue Mill Inn is part of the cold case murder mystery that was solved here recently. This murder happened back in 1979.

Memorial day music

GI Jive, Johnny Mercer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91vsEV4UUGo

Jack

Corey: 1979 ... good grief! Is that the program that's on tonight?

Not just that .. the Dean clan do not want Hillary in at all cost .. They know they can not control her .. She is her own persib .... they know she's for the people, especailly children ... all these programs that were cut down during Bush, will be enlarged .. not to m ntion she's talked about going after big oil .. now, yes, she might not be able to get it done . but I do think she'll try ..

Viv: I sincerely hope she does. I'm just concerned that this whole experience will totally deflate her and she'll leave politics. Well, maybe she'll work with Bill at his Foundation and they can keep providing cheap drugs to people in undeveloped countries with AIDS and TB and the like. Course, Bill does that kind of work because he's such a racist ....

Well, I have to go ... my knees are starting to seize up.

memorial day music

Gee, I Wish I Was Back In The Army
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-5AVDemQPE

Jack

Viv/Maggie

Send me an email

webthings at comcast dot com

We need to chat about Kentucky genealogy. I've got a group in Warren County KY

I'm late to the party, but need to speak my piece.

I heard a few words from KO's opening remarks tonight, and I'm sure he said something like, "today, for the first time, Hillary Clinton linked the assassination of Robert Kennedy and Senator Barack Obama." That's heavily paraphrased so please don't think of it as a direct quote.

By the time I heard KO say that, I had already read the link posted here that showed Hillary used the same comparison in March. I can forgive KO for not knowing about that reference, after all, he had a show to prepare for, but I can't forgive him for clearly misrepresenting Senator Clinton's remarks. Of course, he's not the only person in the media to do so. Their statements on this topic are so clearly divorced from reality, I wonder why we bother watching any of them.

I've got to believe that ardent Obama supporters, who are NOT also Hillary-haters can view the clip, which includes all of Senator Clinton's remarks, and easily see that she was talking about the calendar, using historical perspective.

AnonP, whom I assume to be a Hillary-hater, mentioned that the '68 campaign started much later and Mark Shields used the same argument on The News Hour. May or March, who cares? The fact is that it's a nomination for the right to run in November, and all these primaries and caucuses are preparatory to a convention. This race, like most others, will end when one of the candidates realizes the other has garnered enough delegate votes to beat him or her.

“I’ve heard her make that argument before,” Mr. Kennedy said, speaking on his cell phone as he drove to the family compound in Hyannis for the holiday weekend. “It sounds like she was invoking a familiar historical circumstance in support of her argument for continuing her campaign.” . . . [H]is support of Mrs. Clinton has not wavered.

memorial day music

Annie And The Vets - Touch A Name On The Wall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ZLg3TRqSo

Jack

Yeah , it's on right now. It's pretty sad.

Maggsid, I do sometimes fall asleep in my recliner, with the Dr. Scholls massage/heat mat, lol ..

Corey: there are alot of auction going around in this area .. never been to one, but talk with someone on line about it .. I've got an old libray table that I use for my compter & a Secretary that this guy is always trying to buy off me .. I keep telling me, NO WAY, my Grandpa gave them to me ...

I remember that!! I've been a news junkies for so long .. remember reading the paper from front to back .. didn't make any different, anything that caught my eye, I'd read, still do it .. but now on line ...

Maggisd Me too .., I've got to go put my feet & legs up .. going to sleep on me here ..

will try for later on .. if not, be on tomorrow ..

Jamie >>> I'll send you an email .. I'd love to learn more about KY ... always been interested in Genealogy ...

Robert Kennedy Jr. issued the following statement this evening:

“It is clear from the context that Hillary was invoking a familiar political circumstance in order to support her decision to stay in the race through June. I have heard her make this reference before, also citing her husband’s 1992 race, both of which were hard fought through June. I understand how highly charged the atmosphere is, but I think it is a mistake for people to take offense.”

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/

EdVB...

I'm not a Hillary hater as you assume. Did you watch the whole hour of K.O.?

He did bring up her other remark about the RFK assassination which you did not hear because I assume you didn't watch the whole hour.

She was talking about her reasons for staying in the race. There were other examples she could haved used, however she chose that example of RFK being assassinated as a reason for staying in.

Whether or not she wanted something to happen to Obama like what happened to RFK doesn't matter. You do not use the possible assassination of a Presidential candidate as a reason for staying in a Presidential race.

She tied an assassination of RFK to Obama as a path to the nomination and she was wrong. As far as her apology it was not what you and the rest of the Hillary supporters say it was.

If she offended anyone with her remarks she regrets it. What about an apology just saying I'm sorry I shouldn't have said that?

Or an apology to Ted Kennedy or Obama and his family. You also seem to forget that about a week ago Huckabee made a joke before the NRA about someone pointing a gun at Obama.

Sorry to say this, but I believe her political career is over and I think the SD's will all go to Obama now no matter what she says or does as she has stepped over the line.

If you don't see this than you are blind and I feel sorry for you and the rest of the Hillary supporters.

Robert Kennedy Jr thinks people are deliberately using this remark. If it doesn't offend him
your outrage on his behalf is unwanted.

Only a Hillary Hater would believe this garbage
and of course the worst are the ones in denial.

Bry Bry,

You are just so clever. Looked in the mirror lately?

A Reminder:

Jeremiah Wright - God Damn America

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH5ixmT83JE

Hi Anon,

No, I just caught those opening remarks, which really make no sense, if KO was later going to cite Hillary's previous statement.

I realize, what I heard him say was just a tease for his show, but it sounds like sloppy reporting from a guy, whose talent is considered to be his fine writing. -----Hillary said this for the first time today, except for the time she said it before.

While I don't count myself among the Hillary supporters, I do find myself leaning more toward her than Senator Obama, so thank you for feeling sorry for me, and allowing for my ignorance. I clearly did not hear Senator Clinton suggest that she should hang around until something bad happens to her opponent.

I do agree that she's not likely to get the nomination, but that's not because of today's remarks. As for her political career being over, are you assuming New Yorkers will not send her back to the Senate?

I guess that's always possible, but it would take a strong candidate to beat her. She'll be taking a risk if she runs for Governor, but I think we'd be apt to re-elect her for at least two more terms, if she chooses to remain our junior Senator.

The best time is after voting has been completed and before the convention. Hillary's goal has been to at least keep the race close.

It's amazing how this site quickly became for political apologists, a roman orgy that would make Caligula blush...

While I wasn't offended by her comments, anyone who didn't think that Hillary has considered assassination as a means to the nomination is deluded. Sadly, I have heard many people speculate that Obama will be killed if it looks like he will win the Presidency in the fall.

Hillary Clinton has proven incapable of admitting mistakes, hence her insincere "sorry if you were offended" remarks. Just as with her Iraq vote, if she admitted any kind of error in judgment, she would have been quickly forgiven. Instead, many people who held her in high esteem one year ago think she is a @#$#$ (insert your own expletive)

Bear

"anyone who didn't think that Hillary has considered assassination as a means to the nomination "

A woman who has dedicated her life to public service, women and children. Someone whom even her opponents describe as warm, caring, and funny and you are accusing her of being capable of assassination.

You are an ass.and an idiot.

Barack Obama: There Will Be Bamboozling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuB_W8o_UsU

Funny. He doesn't think she murders people

http://jisunlee.blogspot.com/2004/09/who-is-that-with-jeremy.html

Jamie,

I have known about her work with the Children's Defense Fund and I applaud her for it but her statements demonstrate to me a Quixotic thirst for the nomination which has shown no regard for anyone beyond her own ambitions.

I don't begrudge her for it but I do find it curious and difficult to accept. There was no coded language for her to hide behind.

Before you start calling me an ass or an idiot you @#$#$, consider how many guilty defendants like Scooter Libby or convicted murderers had someone stand up in the court and say what a good person they are.

You seem to forget that Clinton was my initial choice in this campaign until she started running this horrendous campaign.

Jamie

Ass and idiot seem to = obama supporter these days.

There go a few more million vote from Obama to McCain. But they don't care as long as they get to beat Hillary. The sad part of the Obama and the net roots left is how short sighted they are.
Obama make his bitter remarks about rural whites in Ohio and Pennsyvania. His share of the vote goes down from 25 to 30% amoung such people in southern Missouri in Feb. to 8-9% in kentucky last week

They keep pounding away with the same old sexist slanders and attacks. Everytime it looks like things are calming down for Obama something like this happens.
If he doesn't put hard brakes on this one it is going to bite him in the ass big time.

Jack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxRj5uWyngI

My entire beef and it seems to be echoed by the Clintonistas is that she has some sort of claim or entitlement to the nomination. She is not her husband. Only he has the charm and the political gifts to piss off large segments of his party's base and still win their adoration.

I had no qualms sending the Clinton campaign some of my concerns with their policies and their general tone. How do they address it? They ask me for money.

Fuck them. They wasted $6 million on a sperm burping idiot with the worst comb over since Guiliani and all I hear are excuses like the media and all the nasty boys are ganging up on me to keep me down...boo fucking hoo...

If she were the politician she wants us all to believe she is, she could have taken a crap on the debate stage and still pull 60%.

Unlike you Jamie, I saw the warning signs for her campaign when she ran in 2006. She spent upwards of $50 million in a race that found her for all intents and purposes, running unopposed. Even doing so she didn't clear 65% if memory serves...she just proved she is not better with money than W.

Jack,

Fuck off. It shows you how woefully troubled we are as a country when you can't even express a benign viewpoint about a candidate who basically stated that she was hanging around in case her opponent happened to catch a bullet.

Her comparisons to previous campaign were flawed, ( the June reference) because those campaign seasons started a month later than this one did.

FOR THE ONE MILLIONTH TIME...I AM NOT AN OBAMA SUPPORTER, I AM A CONCERNED DEMOCRAT WHO IS SICK OF THIS BITTER C#$% PUTTING HER OWN AMBITIONS BEFORE THAT OF THE PARTY.

IF SHE WAS THE BETTER CANDIDATE, SHE WOULD NOT HAVE LOST TO A POLITICAL FUCKING NEOPHYTE.

IN A KARATE TOURNAMENT...BLACK BELTS DON'T LOSE TO WHITE BELTS. SHE GOT HER ASS KICKED BY ONE AND NOW SHE IS CRYING, DON'T HIT ME IM A WOMAN AND I REALLY DO PEE SITTING DOWN...

You people are blinded by a rage and ideology...I know there is an Austrian burning in hell who would relish the opportunity to speak with you all for a couple of minutes...

The Next McGovern?

http://tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=ec466d61-a900-414c-8daf-16ff27ccf85c

Statement from the Argus Leader

The Argus Leader’s Executive Editor Randell Beck issued the following statement today:

"The context of the question and answer with Sen. Clinton was whether her continued candidacy jeopardized party unity this close to the Democratic convention. Her reference to Mr. Kennedy's assassination appeared to focus on the timeline of his primary candidacy and not the assassination itself."

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=7807

GORDO.

Only draft dodging pussies think it a smear to be labeled McGovern...he may not have been a great politician but anyone who flies 30+ missions over Europe in a B-24 has testicles bigger than anyone I know. If McCain were half the pilot in skill or less reckless, he would have never had to endure the Hanoi Hilton...but if that were the case he would have no political bona fides.

The Shrieking of Obamatons

"So the Obama crowd is wetting itself and wailing that Clinton is implying Obama should be shot.... So if Hillary makes reference to the bombing of Hiroshima in August of 1945 does that mean she wants to nuke the convention? The weaklings and cowards that surround Obama never cease to amaze me. They flail at the littlest imagined slight and throw a conniption because Hillary has the audacity to mention a historic fact."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/23/the-shrieking-of-obamatons/

Gordo,

That is very easy for someone to say when they haven't needed secret service protection, around the clock for the past year. Clinton has had it for 16 years. It's not "whining" to say that she should have known better.

One could easily use that same argument when one complains that frat boys go to Clinton rallies and say Iron my shirt.

If you are going to take a gun to a knife fight, don't get pissed when people shoot back. Clinton seems to think that when she takes the gun to the fight, others can only fight back with only the knives.

For the last time...I was originally a Clinton voter...I then moved to Dodd...and then to Edwards...while I remained intrigued by Obama. I have said that I would support whomever the Democratic nominee is so even if the #@$#$ wins, I would still vote for her...though, since I live in TX and she were the nominee, I would write in...Steaming pile of shit for my ballot

Obama Disrespecting the Flag and US Anthem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8QCkgg5Kjo&feature=related

Republicans know they can take Obama down

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOeDQ-gWseQ

GORDO...

Please do the Democratic Party a favor. You and the rest of the Hillary supporters who say they will vote for McInsane if Obama gets the nomination, please or please do vote for McInsane.

And while your at it please or please re register as Republicans. The Democratic Party don't need your kind of support.

To invoke the assassination of RFK as a reason to stay in the race is what a Republican would say. And where is all these stories you keep bringing up?

Just more slime from a slime bag like you. I use to respect Larry Johnson from No Quarter when he strongly supported going after the people who outed a NOC, but any respect I once had for him is gone after your continued slime linked stories from his site.

Is it possible that some of his friends may have committed War Crimes while working under the Bush Regime? Could that be the real reason he supports Hillary because he knows she won't investigate the War Crimes that the CIA committed under the Bush Regime?

I guess we may never know, however the truth always finds its way out into the light of day. Sometimes it just takes a lot longer, but eventually it will.

So please vote for McInsane and re register as the Republican you appear to be.

Just another slime ball.

Obama a chicken?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFArdWcqssc

Sure got quiet?? only GMan stirring and he's on defense.

For the past 60 days or more Hillary and her crew have been referring to '"something"could happen that might change the election. Is this what they've been thinking about ; Obama being assasinated? Makes you wonder.

Well, for those who took offense to the insinuation that Obama would need someone to taste his food with Hillary around...
Posted by: Mr. Democrat | May 23, 2008 6:21 PM

I bet Craig will have a good defense for her comments.

Maybe she should just answer questions honestly instead of rambling on aimlessly and sticking her for in her mouth.

All she had to say was she is losing in the pledged delegate count and the Super delegates are going to have to over-ride their vote and select me.

She chooses to suggest that something might happen to Obama in the meantime.

Speeding to Press: Pete Souza's Obama Book

We are printing this book at my plant. Mostly pictures, first printing will hardcover. It has been on press the last couple of days.

http://www.pdnonline.com/pdn/features/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003807238

Obama’s Identity Crisis

Although he presents himself as a healer of differences, the presidential candidate’s own racial struggle paints a conflicted portrait.

by Steve Sailer

http://www.amconmag.com/2007/2007_03_12/feature.html

Interesting column on Obama. Sure to get a negative reaction from the Obamanoids. Especially since it is from a conservative source.

NEW THREAD