Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Craig,

I see your point on Michigan, but as long as one of the choices was uncommitted, there should be a rationale for those delegates going to Senator Obama, or whoever else would still have been in the race by this time.

I never looked at it that way.
maybe I should give it some thought.

EdvB can you deliberate some more.
Because if Uncommitted was to go to people who were not on the ballot than some of thoise should go to John Edwards.
Pffffff. Tricky...Tricky......

The aricle from Madison Powers is a must read. Just read and conclude for yourself

The problem with giving any votes to BHO is that no one knows who those voters would have voted for.

Knowing that he was going to lose Michigan by a wide margin, and knowing that losing a swing state to Clinton was going to change the entire dialogue, BHO was sure that "Uncommitted" could beat Clinton. He never thought beyond that goal.

When she beat Uncommitted, BHO immediately started trying to discount Michigan by saying he wasn't even on the ballot. Bad Plan B.

Once Michigan became a big deal and people starting asking why he took his name off the ballot in the first place, there was no logical answer and it became obvious that it was all a political ploy.

The way to count votes for BHO or HRC is if there is a "check mark" beside the name.
The fact is, HRC got votes in Michigan and for reasons entirely of his own doing, BHO didn't.

Thanks for the article, Mr. Crawford. I actually thought BHO might get away with convincing people that he wasn't on the ballot in Michigan for some high-minded reason.

Good thinking Jan!

Can someone send me a link to a speach where BO actually said that people should vote uncommitted? I am keeping most of the information, but for this specific point I have nothing....

The Obama camp is very quick in pointing out how the Clinton campaign's flawed strategy and lackluster tactics cost them the caucus states.

Now it's their turn to suck it up and accept their own responsibility for poor strategy and dumb tactics costing them Michigan and Florida.

Let Florida stand as is, and grant Mr Obama 87-pct of the uncommitted Michigan ballots.

Do not formally penalize Mr Obama for his illegal Orlando news conference.

Burrito, Jack

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11409414

I'm slowly working myself through back issues of accumulated magazines. The above link from The Economist is an extremely informative read on interest rates. A tremendous amount of knowledge in a single page.

Craig....well put..thanks for the informative article

Craig....
great TM.... although I'm sure that if Michigan is to be solved BO will receive some delegates.....

also.... in sports.... the referees wouldn't be rigging the game in favor of one team over another.....

and sports writers that didn't show favor to the home town team (or the candidate that won the state)..... would be hanged....

Many links re uncommitted votes for Obama:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=vote+for+uncommitted+urges+Obama&btnG=Google+Search

Thank you Craig.
After taking his name off the Michigan ballot, Obama later refused to file as a write-in candidate. New kind of politics my butt.

Here are theMichigan Ballot Results

Hillary Rodham Clinton 328,309 55.2%
Uncommitted 238,168 40.1%
Dennis J. Kucinich 21,715 3.7%
Christopher J. Dodd 3,845 0.6%
Mike Gravel 2,361 0.4%

Delegates stripped by party.

Here is what happened in Michigan as reported in the Des Moines Register in October of 2007.

Obama's internal polling showed he was going to get get landslided by Clinton in Michigan. His own polling had him behind by 20 points. So as a political calculation and to pander to Iowa voters in the upcoming caucus he made a gratuitous public gesture of taking his name off the ballot in Michigan, both because he knew he was going to lose big and to curry favor with Iowans and their first in the nation status. But at the same time he was making a deal with the Michigan Democratic Party for his name to be represented in the primary by the line "Uncommitted" and to have that publicized.

John Edwards joined the uncommitted line and every single voter in Michigan knew long before election day that to vote for Obama or Edwards you voted the "uncommitted line. It was well publicized and everyone knew it. And the proof that they knew it is that "uncommitted" received 40.7% of the vote, the second highest total, while Clinton received 56%. The rest went to the other candidates on the ballot (uninformed journalists and Obama supporters have often said Clinton was the only name on the ballot. Not so).

All rationale was thrown out the window when this craziness started. There is no perfect solution, particularly once you go against the agreed upon rules.
I suggest that to make the million's of voters from every state except FL & MI happy, we do not count any vote from FL & MI and let Obama rough it in November.

Morning Craig and everyone,

I like your post, today, Craig, especially how you bring out the fact that there are many myths circulating about the Florida and Michigan debacle.

You wisely point out that Obama purposely took his name off the ballot in Michigan as a political maneuver, so he should not be awarded any delegates. Period.

Hillary Clinton should obviously be awarded delegates in Michigan, however,
as well as the major share them in Florida. Since the DNC and officials in the Dem and Republican parties in Florida and Michigan are to blame for making the rules, bending them and somehow breaking them, I don't think the voters should be punished at all. Let's be honest, Camp Obama is only sanctimoniously, rule conscious, now, because Obama lost these two states by wide margins.

Craig, I have some questions. Now that DNC lawyers have decided
that the DNC was right about punishing Florida and Michigan, does
this mean that Hillary Clinton must honor whatever the DNC tells her?
Can Senator Clinton sue the DNC if she thinks they have been unfair?
Can she ignore whatever happens at the Saturday meeting if she doesn't agree with the outcome?

As has been said before.
If your only method of enforcing a rule is to shoot yourself in the foot. It is not a rule it is merely a suggestion.

Jack

mornin' all.

Flatus, exactly. (re: your 7:03) What's that old saying about not dishing it out if you can't stand to have it thrown back at you? Seems Obama missed that saying in Indonesia and Hawaii. Oh, well, Aloha, I guess.

Yesterday I had to do some driving so I got the chance tolisten to the Alex Bennet show on Sirius. If you have Sirius or Air America, and he may be on XM, although I don't know that, he's a good one to listen to for pretty clear thinking frm the left that's not distorted by a preference for a particular candidate.

Craig,

You never cease to amaze me with your fairness in telling it like it is. Honesty is so rare, that I'm bowed over every time I witness it. We have our own Dr. Phil. Thank you!

I don't know why any of this matters, but below is a link to one of the many understandings.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/22/how-obama-ended-up-on-and_n_103132.html

Flatus
Interesting article, I noticed that one of the ways developing countries try to keep food prices in check is through price controls.This could explain some of the rice shortages. In the growing economies of Asia nonfarm jobs are booming. Why stay on the farm doing back breaking work for little money. Also, price controls would drive off capital to the more lucrative manufacturing sector. so there are no investments in new technology that would increase agricultual productivity.

Jack

"The world has become divided between people who consider Bill and
Hillary Clinton monsters, and people who don't." Joan Walsh

Morning everone.

Did she quit the race yet?

*Fake laughter*.

vcsmith, sam stein has been in the tank for obama from almost day one. note that he distinguishes michigan and florida's procedures, noting that FL does not have a procedure for removing one's name from the ballot, but what he fails to do is point out how one gets his name on the FL ballot. I don't know whether it is like in MI or whether a candidate has to take an affirmative action to be on the ballot there. maybe somone of our FL contingent could let us know that. to his credit he notes that obama's name was placed on the mi ballot without his consent or his objection, then lets that issue drop like the proverbial hot potato. typical one sided huffpo article.

I just figured out the answer to one of my earlier questions.

If Senator Clinton does not like the DNC decision on Saturday about how to seat
the delegates, she can take her argument to the Rules Committee later this summer for a hearing. The Clinton campaign insists that no vote should
be ignored in Florida and Michigan. And I agree.

Obama's Woes: A Tale of Three States

"If you want evidence that the Democrats are taking a huge gamble by nominating Barack Obama as their Presidential candidate, you need look no further than the current state of the race in three Southern/border states.

In 1992 and 1996 Bill Clinton won Kentucky, West Virginia and Arkansas. In 2000 and 2004, George Bush won all three states. In the current Democratic Party nominating contest, Hillary Clinton won all three states by huge margins -- 30 points or more in each case. West Virginia (3%), and Kentucky (7%) have relatively small black populations. Arkansas is just over 15% African American (in the same range as Florida and Tennessee).

Were the Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton, the Democrats would be in very good shape even without Ohio. That is because current surveys show Hillary Clinton winning all three states by solid margins over John McCain."

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/05/obamas_woes_a_tale_of_three_st.html

Craig, I have some questions. Now that DNC lawyers have decided that the DNC was right about punishing Florida and Michigan, does this mean that Hillary Clinton must honor whatever the DNC tells her? Can Senator Clinton sue the DNC if she thinks they have been unfair?Can she ignore whatever happens at the Saturday meeting if she doesn't agree with the outcome?Posted by: prof marcia

Craig,

I'm looking forward to seeing the answer to marcia's question too. It's not really so much seeing Hillary win the election anymore, but more about the injustice that has been accepted and practiced by so many in positions of power and influence.

Anc Craig, I'm struck by the difference in the response of the posters so far today. What a good bunch you've brought out into the open.

....... thanks pogo. I've got serius and xm and have been in search of some new form of good info. I'll try Alex Bennet today.

jack and flatus - here's 2 articles about the rice shortage - it's based on a number of factors, poor crop yields being one, and SURPRISE, the price of oil being another.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0422/p12s01-woap.html

http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_042408WAB_rice_shortage_world_vision_KS.969c0c82.html

the CSM article is particularly good and gives a sense of what's happening where.

"- here's 2 articles about the rice shortage" pogo

and just a couple weeks ago, when people were out buying large quantities of rice emptying the shelves at membership stores, etc. there was a big announcement that there is no rice shortage and that people shouldn't worry about it. Now this?

“In sports, that would be like giving points to a team that forfeits the game.”

Craig, since you seem to forget, they both signed on to forfeit the game. In sports you would never see anything like this happen because when one team gets ahead they do not change the rules for the other team to win. You, just like the witch, will try anything to get her elected which, IMO, will destroy the Democratic Party. Actually, I believe her intent is to destroy Obama so she can say “See, I was the better candidate”, while, in fact, it is she who is destroying him. She can rot in Hell as far as I'm concerned. I loathe her.

notice how the "tone" changes when an obama supporter signs on..........?

I can understand a network "shading" the truth for their favored candidate, but how do they get away with outright lying?

Ridley Scott and Mika on MSNBC this morning talking about "why did Sen. Obama allow himself to be labeled 'elitist' when he was from the south side of Chicago and as a child he was raised in poverty by a single mother on food stamps?"

Say what? (1) His mother didn't raise him. - His father dumped him when he was two. She remarried when he was about five, and she dumped him on his grandmother when he was 10. (2) The food stamps at most was a two year period between daddy leaving and mommy remarrying (3) The stepfather was an executive. The mother became a bank executive. The grandmother was a bank executive. (4) He attended one of the most prestigious private schools in Hawaii. (5) His university career was from the most prestigious schools in the U.S. (5) In Chicago he teaches at another great university and marries a woman with an exceptional income.

Is it any surprise, that those who are trying to support this man keep feeling weird about it. If his supporters can't tell the truth about him, what are we supposed to believe?

and sports writers that didn't show favor to the home town team (or the candidate that won the state)..... would be hanged....
Posted by: RebelliousRenee http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/05/obamas-michigan-forefeit.html#comment-90280

Renee said so much in that one sentence.

apparently Karolenna didn't read the following part of the CQ article. Again it is a case that if the Obama folks repeat a lie often enough, people will start to believe it. Unfortunately, they seem to be right.

"Four days before the Florida primary on January 29, and just two weeks after her 55 percent share of primary votes cast in the Michigan primary in which neither Edwards nor Obama were on the ballot, Clinton announced that she would ask her “Democratic convention delegates to support seating the delegations from Florida and Michigan.” Perhaps the rest of us did not pay much attention at the time, but Florida Democratic Party officials took immediate notice and extended to her their thanks for her promise of support. "

Wow
Jamie All the info you just gave in your last post validates why I feel no connection with OBAMA!!! As a G.M. UAW autoworker for most of my life he just doesn't speak to me Hillary does its just that simple!!! In this campaign I have seen his side thanks in large part to y-tube and the blog do the most unsavery things so I simply don't trust OBAMA there you have it everyone my reason for note voting in Nov. unless McCain changes my mind?

Sturgeone,

You are so right!! It was like a tidal wave of mean-spirited attacks
on Hillary, suddenly. Can you imagine if a Clinton supporter ever
wrote things like this about Obama:
"just like the witch... (warlock)" "he's out to destroy her" "I loath him."

I would never write those sorts venomous words about Obama even
though I could never vote for the man.

Jamie,

Your post is great. Ridley Scott and Mika are a hate Hillary team. It's difficult for me to watch either of them anymore.

chloe, seems to depend on where you are - my poker table math tells me that the supply of rice on the world market is down, with exporting countries being in pretty good shape (we are one) and importing countries going wanting. The dramatic feature is the rise in price for rice, which effectively makes it unavailable to many who would otherwise buy it asa a staple or to distribute to the starving.

In case you want to keep an eye on what the GOP will be throwing, here is their website

http://gop.com/

The one being pushed now is the counter showing how long it has been since Sen. Obama has been to Iraq?

"why did Sen. Obama allow himself to be labeled 'elitist (from Mika, msnbc) Jamie

Don't think he allowed it. It was more of a discovery by many.

Elitist is defined as a person who is or who believes himself or herself to be a member of an elite group.

And elite is the group or part of a group selected or regarded as the finest, best, most distinguished, most powerful, etc.

I don't see anything in that definition that has to do with how he was raised. You don't have to be rich to be arrogant. It's a state of mind. And the DNC has demonstrated that they do find Obama to be their finest, their best, their most distinguished and they do hope that he will soon be their most powerful.

Pogo

Last fall James Fallows posted (on his blog over on the Atlantic website,) pictures of farming in China. He had also post pictures of eastern China with its new highrise buildings. It was a stark contrast for a farm boy like me. The rural pictures show an agriculture sector that was 200 years behind the gleaming industrial sector. If we returned to the peracre production levels of 200 years ago we would be a bit hungry too.

Jack

pogo, thanks for the heads up.

I didn't see the significance of the Huff Post at the time, but now see that there are many theoried agendas and Mr. Stein was giving his slant.
At the time of the FL & MI primaries, I thought that not counting for anything was the dumbest thing I had ever heard. But I'm in NJ, so what can one do? As for the conversation of disenfranchised voters, for me it has been going on for years.

more on the food crisis.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2008-05-28-food-crisis_N.htm

Can you imagine if a Clinton supporter ever wrote things like this about Obama: "just like the witch... (warlock)" "he's out to destroy her" "I loath him." Posted by: prof marcia

It's so puzzling that some kinds of hate or prejudice are completely acceptable and other types are rightfully condemned.

vc, no prob. I swore off huffpo for a couple of months and have quit reading it with any regularity at all because of it's strongly pro-Obama, anti-Clinton editorial bent, which extends to its selection of news articles and banner composition. Stein is one of the worst offenders.

Chloe,

It wasn't the label that bothered me. It was the string of lies to deny the lable.

I find nothing wrong in someone being accomplished, well educated, or receiving the rewards of their efforts. "Elite" used to mean those of the greatest achievements. It was at the heart of "To whom much is given, much will be required." The extension from that was "nobless oblige" - a giving back to the community and to those with less.

It has come to mean a kind of unearned snobbery - the old line about being born on third base and when you succeed thinking you hit a home run.

Neither Sen. nor Mrs. Obama seem to be in the second group. They have both done good things for their family and their community. I would find those people well worth supporting after more public service. What we get instead is the pulled up by boot strap, practically born in log cabin myth and that makes you question what is real and what is phony and who is creating the image?

More Clinton shilling from Craig this morning.

The problem with your argument is simply this: why should Obama be punished for withdrawing his name from the ballot when everybody knew in advance the votes wouldn't count. Until Clinton began to beg for votes, everybody knew the states were null and void. Why waste your time when it's merely for show? Also too, by not including your name, you are showing solidarity with the rules committee.

All of this populist, "let the voters" rhetoric is really beginning to upset me. Rules are rules. Leaders in these states (both republican and democrat) chose to put themselves in a position where they knew they would be punished. If voters are angry, they should direct their anger at the state leadership, not the DNC or the candidates.

Finally, if we allow even a single vote to count then the rules system of the DNC is pointless. What's to stop future violations? Nothing.

tonyb39
You have to vote in the general election. There will be other candidates. the Constitution Party, the Green Party, the Libertarian Party, the Prohibition Party, the Socialist Party, the Socialist Workers Party, the and of course the Independents.
If nothing else is attractive, then we MUST promote the idea and need for more than the dominance of the current 2 party system.

jack, yep, the contrast between the farmers and industrialists (and other non farming businessmen) in Asian countries is startling. It's probably a bit of an overstatement, but to an extent it's the 15th century (picked randomly) versus the 21st. I'm sure there is some industrialized rice farming that takes place in those countries, but there is also farming as it's been done essentially forever. The export restriction and price increses are the big problem as I see it. And I imagine that drought and flood are also contributing.

And the ammunition for the flip-flop campaign has begun:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/05/obama-v-obama.html#comments

Another "pressed the wrong button," "wasn't there, "didn't see the memo" moment from Senator Obama.

It wasn't the label that bothered me. It was the string of lies to deny the lable. Jamie

Thanks Jamie,
I get it.

It's not hard to get off track when you have so much garbage thrown at you. But then, maybe that's the point.

Should have said: And the ammunition for the flip-flop campaign has "been provided"

Ally,

So there isn't plenty of ammo against HRC in the flip-flop wars.

I don't want to be too partisan for Obama here, but I think this flip-flop stuff is terribly dangerous for the political process. It's (usually) a right-wing tactic, a shorthand for anti-intellectualism. When the inconsistencies are going to have a real impact on how the candidate will govern, that's one thing. I just worry that too often putting a candidate in the "flip-flop box" denies him/her the right to legitimately change their mind on an issue. See: John Kerry.

PoU. Nice try. The DNC granted waivers to SC & NH to move their contests and denied the same requests from FL & MI. Rules are rules? only for IA, NH & SC apparently. The penalty under the rules is to lose 50% of the delegate seats. The DNC went a step further and stripped them completely - not according to the rules, but to punish FL & MI further. A challenge was foreseeable, in fact inevitable. Obama isn't stupid enough to think that wouldn't happen. He gambled on MI - he'll be stuck with the results of that gamble. This is a problem of the DNC's making. In the end it probably won't change the outcome, but it may swing the popular vote count recognized by the DNC to Clinton. Tell me, will you complain if the superdelegates decide to make Clinton the nominee "according to the rules"? I'm betting you will.

I can understand a network "shading" the truth for their favored candidate, but how do they get away with outright lying?

Posted by: Jamie | May 29, 2008 8:59 AM

Jamie: One thing occurred to me following the "Vogue Vogue Vogue" incident on the press plane and then the sweetie remark to the reporter:

Obama now believes his own bullsh*t.

And the media has bought off on it hook, line and sinker.

PoU, you are exactly right about the flip-flop issue. GWB is a prime example. It's the old humorous definitionof insanity - doing the same thing time after time and expecting a dfferent outcome. Hell, I want my leaders to change their approach based on the facts available to them, and if something doesn't work to do something else.

Pogo,

The state's you mentioned worked with the DNC. That's the difference. The popular vote is meaningless in this equation, by the way.

Neither Sen. nor Mrs. Obama seem to be in the second group. They have both done good things for their family and their community. I would find those people well worth supporting after more public service. What we get instead is the pulled up by boot strap, practically born in log cabin myth and that makes you question what is real and what is phony and who is creating the image?

Posted by: Jamie | May 29, 2008 9:36 AM

Morning, Jamie,

Might be valid except for the the presidents that achieved much with little public service.

Just can't argue that Abraham Lincoln was ready for the Civil War with just 8 years service in the Illinois state senate. Just an example.

You, me, one one will know who is great enough in a crisis with this kind of logic.

PoU: The flip-flopping argument against HRC is moot, isn't it? Obama will be the nominee. Hence my reference to the flip flop on Obama's part. And the flip flop tactic was a very effective tool against Kerry in the 2004 election. It goes to the issue of authenticity. (BTW: McCain is a serial flip flopper but will Democrats use it against him? Probably not.)

"why should Obama be punished for withdrawing his name from the ballot when everybody knew in advance the votes wouldn't count." Politics of Utopia
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/05/obamas-michigan-forefeit.html#comment-90315

Utopia,
I still don't get it. How can counting peoples votes hurt him.
The numbers will still work in his favor. He'll still win.

So why not give the voters a voice and prevent them from feeling dissed? The outcome of the nomination won't change anyway. There's a lot of people in those states and to ignore their will just seems morally wrong, especially since it will not change the outcome anyway.

When do we get to the point where we convince EVERYONE that they have been treated fairly, so we can move on to unite.

Or am I missing something?

To lighten the mood this morning with a link that has nothing - or perhaps *everything* - to do with politics.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/29/alien-video-to-be-reveale_n_104043.html

I thought South Dakota was a easy win for Obama but not according to this.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080529/ap_on_el_pr/south_dakota_primary

tonyb39....
let me echo the sentiments of getting you to rethink not voting in November....
and anyone else on this list considering the same option....

remember... the election is not just about choosing a president.... it's also about choosing Senators and Congressmen..... and there may be ballot initiatives in your state that you truly care about.....

if you can't bring yourself to vote for a president..... so be it.... leave it blank....
but who represents you in Congress can have a much more direct effect on your life than who is president.....

just something to think about..... the choice is your's.....

pogo
I have about a dozen sites that I visit at least once a day. Its more about keeping up with current issues and events than tying into all the different agendas.

Speaking of flip-flops, here's what Chris Matthews had to say after Bush's "Mission Accomplished" moment (it appears Bush also caused a thrill to run up Chris's lag):

"He won the war. He was an effective commander. Everybody recognizes that, I believe, except a few critics. ... He looks for real. ... [H]e didn't fight in a war, but he looks like he does. ... We're proud of our president. ... Women like a guy who's president. Check it out. The women like this war. I think we like having a hero as our president."

And actually flip flop may not be an accurate description for how McCain will use the issue against Obama. Because it really was just a gaffe on Obama's part (mainly due to his green-ness). They might just use the old inexperience argument against him on this one. Hard to say.

I think there is some misinformation here.

Obama has said many many times that he will accept anything the rules committee comes up with.

If they come up with seating all the delegates for Clinton, Obama will accept it. Now put that in your Funk & Wagonal.

Just not a vaild demonization for some of you in my book.

Let the process finish.

chloe,

I can see your argument, too. My problem is that (and upon further review I take pogo's comment seriously) somehow the rules need to be observed to some degree. Also, living here in the godforsaken state of Florida, I know many Obama supporters who didn't go out to the polls because they knew their votes wouldn't be counted. It's a sticky situation. I guess the half-vote compromise that the DNC lawyers are recommended might suit everybody. Your thoughts?

Chef,

Maybe there's an inconsistency here, but I have heard dozens of times that the Obama camp will accept the ruling as long as it's a "fair" ruling, which, one would assume, would preclude HRC getting all the delegates.

Murdoch weighs in:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hilary-rosen/rupert-murdoch-says-obama_b_104018.html

PoU, yes, the popular vote is meaningess in the sense that the candidate wins by receiveing more delegate votes at the convention - of course Obama repeatedly touted having received more popular votes, along with winning more states (a similarly meaningless measure) in addition to the only metric that in the end matters - delegate votes. You may find this difficult to accept, but Obama has not yet won enough delegate votes to claim the nomination and the number may change depending upon the outcome of this weekend's meeting.

". I'm sure there is some industrialized rice farming that takes place in those countries"

It doesn't help that the population of the earth is such that farm lands to feed them are over run by places to put all the bodies. It took from the beginning of recorded history to 1800 to reach one billion people.

It has only taken 50 years to go from three billion to more than six billion. They all want to eat. There is a choice. Reduce the number of mouths or go on a very severe diet.

"Four days before the Florida primary on January 29, and just two weeks after her 55 percent share of primary votes cast in the Michigan. . . . Clinton announced that she would ask her Democratic convention delegates to support seating the delegations from Florida and Michigan.' -Jamie

Wonder why she would do that?

*scratches head*

Oh. . maybe because she lost her ** in Iowa and knew she was about to in SC. And as a result of close contests in NH and NV, she was behind for good in the delegate count.

How bout that show of solidarity with the FL/MI voters.

Politics of Utopia,

I guess its how your heart is slanted. I respect that those who are emotionally invested in this process are hearing differently.

I voted in Michigan and the information was garbled until just a couple of hours before the votes. Many didn't get the real gist on how to vote.

Many people voted for Clinton because they wanted to have their votes count, but were very upset because they wanted Obama. Many wrote his name in and then were told that it would not count at all....I was one of them.

Having Obama say that he will accept the ruling with no argument is fair. Don't read into it for anymore than it is.

There is no Conspiracy here.

Obama now believes his own bullsh*t.
And the media has bought off on it hook, line and sinker.
Posted by: Ally

Ally,
I have wondered about that for a long time. Racked my brain about "why?". They must have started believing it way before Iowa. Because it wasn't until about then that I tuned in. I was totally lost trying to accept all the things they were trying to feed us.

chloe & ally,

would you define bullsh*t in this context? i'm not trying to stir things up, i just don't understand what you are referring to.

Obama now believes his own bullsh*t.
And the media has bought off on it hook, line and sinker.
Posted by: Ally

Now how can ALL of you say that you do not slander our candidate????

Just pointing out the obvious. Would like some understanding when the mud slinging gets out of hand.

Alley, I'm sure your are civil most of the time. But this type of expression is seen as mud slinging to us.

Follow jamie's example if you want to take the higher road. Her word plays are far better.

Since Murdoch is leaning towards Obama does that mean the FOX Noise channel will lean towards the left down the road. Will Murdoch change the network because the Dems will then be in charge of the House and Senate and he can get better ratings by appealing to the majority. They may have to change one show to Colmes and Hannity and let Colmes run the show. I can't see Hannity praising Obama or Clinton like he does Bush.

Again yesterday Hannity was teasing the listeners with this so called tape that he may or may not have. He can play this game for so long before it loses it's luster. I can't stand these talking heads that do this kind of thing just to get people to listen to them. If you got something then report it or keep it to yourself and not play around with it.

I guess the half-vote compromise that the DNC lawyers are recommended might suit everybody. Your thoughts?
Posted by: Politics of Utopia

Utopia,
I don't think my thoughts matter.
Anymore than those who did go out to vote did.

Obama has said many many times that he will accept anything the rules committee comes up with.

and yet he has objected to every plan including the revotes. Say one thing for the public and act another in private. Obama is the reason there was no revote.
There were offers to raise the money for the revotes but Obama said NO NO NO I don't want a revote
because he knows he would have lost.

I would like to suggest a new name for Craigs Blog.

In the Tank for Clinton Trail Mix brought to you by Craig Crawford and his merry band of Clintonistas ---All Clinton All the Time.

that makes it clearer to the casual observer as to what is really going on here.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

hmmmm. Politics of Utopia and Chef Sheila.

Hand across the aile in Bipartisanship?

"with just 8 years service in the Illinois state senate."

And only one term in Congress. Of course that was preceded by more than 20 years of traveling throughout Illinois, heavy involvement in the creation of a new political party, a series of lectures on anti slavery and abolition and a long schedule of multiple hour debates with his chief rival. Competition with some of the most accomplished and famous men of his day all in the midst of a national crisis even before the election.

You might like to read the speech that made a president: Lincoln at Cooper Union

http://jdurward.blogspot.com/2008/02/lincoln-at-cooper-union.html?showComment=1202846100000

Chef,

Gladly! : )

OK. A nicer way to put it would be this:

Obama believes his own hype. And what I refer to as Hype is the story that he has created about this past (this was in response to Jamie's allegation that the story of his impoverished background is overblown.)

"Believing your own BS" is not an uncommon term used to describe people who lack humility. I surely am not the first person to accuse Obama of being arrogant and I doubt I will be the last.

"Mathews: The women like this war. I think we like having a hero as our president." Posted by: Patsi

Tweety manages to diss women one more time-more to come.

Jamie,

But Lincoln didn't understand the southern strategy and it took a "Learn as you go" kind of atmostphere to win. He had GREAT Judgement though. That kind of reminds me of someone I am voting for.

Some times voting is a leap of faith aft er weighing the options and the facts.

several weeks ago, one of the national news magazines wrote a story on what went wrong with the Clinton Campaign. Earlier than all the other major gaffs, the first mis-step was to not run for Senator from her home state Ilinois. If she had won there then there would not be US Senator Obama and most likely she would be the Democratic candidate for President of the US.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

"Believing your own BS" is not an uncommon term used to describe people who lack humility. I surely am not the first person to accuse Obama of being arrogant and I doubt I will be the last. Posted by: Ally

Ally,

There are some here that are too high minded to allow us to use "common terms".

That way they can pass along an insult, hoping it will rid them of the differing opinions.

And Sheila: Enough with the wounded thing. I am pretty even-handed in this race so please avoid lumping me with the other mudslingers. My response to Jamie was directly with regard to her comments about the media perpetuating untruths. My point is that if you tell a story long enough, you start to believe it. And if enough people tell you you are wonderful enough, you start to believe it. Obama is used to people fauning over him. Sorry but that's the way I see it.

vad, Murdoch is selling soap ads. He ain't changing anything as long as he sells more than the other cable newsers and for more money per minute.

That secret tape thing is a schtick for Hannity - he does these extended setups for "blockbuster" news - then the news is BS.

"Lincoln also appointed his political rivals to high positions in his cabinet to keep in line all factions of his party-and to let them battle each other and not combine against Lincoln." - Wikipedia

Hillary Clinton is a robot.

And with that pugnacious shot, I'm off to do some work. Take care!

Brain it's politics! The leader always wants to be shown as a good person and use the media to expose the person losing. Nothing new here.

Chloe: Yes, we Clinton supporters are a pretty low-class bunch. Sorry that I hurt feelings this morning.

"Bizarre" is an apt term to apply.

But it would be equally bizarre to seat any delegates following a process that was officially disqualified by the party in advance.

The fact is that all strategic planning by both campaigns, as well as the individual decisions made by citizens regarding whether and for whom to vote were predicated on the expectation that this primary was solely a 'beauty contest'. Any ex post facto change to that status has to be seen as a formal, expedient party process, essentially unconnected from the result of the poll.

So, although it would be "bizarre" to seat Obama delegates, it is also bizarre to seat Clinton ones or, for that matter, any delegates at all.

We need to see this decision for what it is, an intra-party, administrative move to maximize unity and improve its position for the general election in November. Guidance for that decision will be drawn from a number of sources including the votes cast in the disqualified primary, the current standing of the candidates and the wishes of party leaders from the state.

"Now how can ALL of you say that you do not slander our candidate????"

Sheila
Are you seriously trying to tell me your man doesn't bullshit? Come on , lets get real. The question for a lot of us is what of his attacks does he believe and what are just politics as usual. From my point of view, after New Hampshire Obama ran a standard Urban campaign where one candidate is black and the other is white. He repeatedly accused Clinton of racism to bolster his black vote.
I want to know how much he really believed and how much is politics as usual. If he believes Clinton to be racist he has a serious reality problem.IMO

Jack

Corey,

Does that mean Hillary Clinton as the VP nominee is a foregone conclusion for the Senator from Illinois whose supporters think he is the second coming of Lincoln. He has said that Team of Rivals is one of his favorite books.

Chloe: Yes, we Clinton supporters are a pretty low-class bunch. Sorry that I hurt feelings this morning.Posted by: Ally

Yes we are Ally.
And if you don't believe it, just ask a few of the kind people here. But don't worry about their feelings. They've accomplished their goal.

"Obama has said many many times that he will accept anything the rules committee comes up with."

Well maybe, maybe not. Inconsistency, judge for yourself.

Obama in his own words:

3-14-08 NPR interview in response to proposal for a re-do of the FL & MI primaries:

"Our position consistently has been that the MI & FL
delegations should be seated (at the Dem. National
Convention) & that we should come up with a system
that is fair to all the parties involved"

Then, a 3-19-08 interview w/Anderson Cooper cnn--the Illinois senator hit back at Clinton's claim that he is standing in the way of revotes in Fl & MI.

"I want the Michigan delegation & the Florida delegation to be seated. And however, the Dem. National Committee determines we can get that done. I'm happy to abide by those rules.

Alley,

Wasn't mud slinging at you. However, you repesent your faction, this is a public forum, and that was a comment that could be easily misconstrude.

Politics of Utopia saw that same thing.

just pointing out what makes this blog rock in a nasty way and since everyone wants a more peaceful blog, I thought it was a good place to start.

I agree that Obama believes himself. ;0) so does Clinton.

I also believe that he is as humble as Clinton. Great qualities all for candidateship.

If you don't believe Obama's Belief in himself, so be it. There are plenty who do.

I want to know how much he really believed and how much is politics as usual. Posted by: whskyjack
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/05/obamas-michigan-forefeit.html#comment-90376

Maybe we could ask Rev. Wright.
Since he may be the one person who know him best.

He just might do it , Jamie. You never know. Heck , JFK picked LBJ as his running mate and fellow Democrats hated that decision. Although rumor has it that JFK thought LBJ would decline the offer. But , others say JFK offered the position to LBJ to help him win the southern states. Supposedly RFK went to LBJ and told him the offer had been rescinded and LBJ didn't believe him.

Karolenna

NO

All the candidates agreed to "NOT CAMPAIGN" in Floriday. They neither said or did anything in relation to "seating the delegation". That was always up to the DNC.

On Michigan, her WHOLE statement says that she hopes a way will be found to count the vote. Unfortunately, the broadcasters and Obama supporters only perpetuate her first sentence.

Just part of the web of slant and lies from the Obama spokespeople and media.

Besides , look who GWB picked as his VP and he still won 2 elections!

Posted by: Karolenna | May 29, 2008 10:42 AM

you are an idiot who asks stooooopid questions

Michigan and Florida are not the same.

you already won

And you promised not to post here EVER AGAIN
and yet here you are.

Prior to the quoted part of the interview below, Hillary reinforced the difficult position the people of Michigan are in ("they are flat on their backs") and then she went on to say this:

"It's clear this election they're having is not going to count for anything but I just personally didn't want to set up a situation where the Republicans are going to be campaigning between now and whenever and then after the nomination you know we have to go in and repair the damage to be ready to win Michigan in November 2008. I'm not going to campaign there before the you know deadlines and the February 5th window. I'm not going to spend any money there. But I did not believe that it was fair to just say "Goodbye Michigan" and not take into account the fact that we're going to have to win Michigan if we're going to be in the White House in January of 2009."

NHPR interview, October of 2007

Chloe: Yes, we Clinton supporters are a pretty low-class bunch. Sorry that I hurt feelings this morning.Posted by: Ally

Yes we are Ally.
And if you don't believe it, just ask a few of the kind people here. But don't worry about their feelings. They've accomplished their goal.

Posted by: chloe | May 29, 2008 10:42 AM

Ok.....Walking out the door. You guys don't want good talk, you want to take your anger out on someone.

I was really NOT upset Alley. You are trying to make it an issue for the day and so instead of helping you,

I'll see Ya'll later.

No Bipartisanship here yet.

Oh and PS, Jack, it so happens I agree with you. Clinton and Obama and McCain are all full of BS, just some use it better.

But I really happen to think my candidate is trying very hard to keep a sense of integrity.

While your candidate is using the BS strategy through her husband very well, I this Clinton is in the Intgrety side as well.

I hope that clears things up for you. now take a Blood Pressure pill and please enjoy your day!

Its a mac and cheese lunch day and a Copper River Salmon day as well.

Sheila: Believing your own hype combined with a lack of humility is an unsavory combination in my book. Personally, I believe the hype and faun is undeserved. This is just my opinion. This is not an issue of having self-confidence.

So, I choose not to believe in Obama's Belief in Himself. I did not and do not insult any other member of the blog or the host. I am critical of the candidate. The tone and tenor of the blog is mostly with regard to people who choose to hurl insults at each other (in my opinion.)

"I did not and do not insult any other member of the blog or the host"

She knows that.
But it doesn't fit into her plan to intimidate you.
We have to stop defending ourselves from these attacks.
We can't allow others to attack us for what we believe.
I we allow them to silence us, then we lose out on a lot of really good information.

Sheila: You speak of Sen Obama's judgment, as does the candidate -- frequently. We all know that he spoke out against going to war in Iraq at a Chicago rally of war protestors. Those of us who have heard her speech on the Senate floor (as also Kerry's speech) know that Sen Clinton also spoke out against going to war.
But I'll give you that Sen Obama had correct judgment in the matter of the Iraq war, with the caveat that it is usually good judgment to agree with one's constituents.
That being the case, in what other areas has Sen Obama shown superior judgment? I am not trying to be flippant or argumentative, but generally speaking one would expect judgment to rest on more than one statement.

Now how can ALL of you say that you do not slander our candidate????

Just pointing out the obvious. Would like some understanding when the mud slinging gets out of hand.

Alley, I'm sure your are civil most of the time. But this type of expression is seen as mud slinging to us.

Follow jamie's example if you want to take the higher road. Her word plays are far better.

Posted by: Chef Sheila Hussein The Nun | May 29, 2008 10:15 AM

I was really NOT upset Alley. You are trying to make it an issue for the day and so instead of helping you,

I'll see Ya'll later.

Posted by: Chef Sheila Hussein The Nun | May 29, 2008 10:53 AM

Sheila: The next time you are not really upset, don't use 4 question marks and then go on to tell me to take the high road. I believe your defensiveness and anger should be directed to other members of this blog. I rarely engage in petty discourse but I believe your attacks on me personally today were undeserved. Again: I make my remarks about the candidate, not the poster.

I'm sure your are civil most of the time. But this type of expression is seen as mud slinging to us.' Sheila

Define "us".

chloe...

"I did not and do not insult any other member of the blog or the host"

"She knows that.
But it doesn't fit into her plan to intimidate you.
We have to stop defending ourselves from these attacks.
We can't allow others to attack us for what we believe.
I we allow them to silence us, then we lose out on a lot of really good information."

Sheila never has insulted anyone here since I've known her.

Yet now you accuse her of intimidation. Isn't that a personal attack against her?

That's how it looks to me.

Back to lurking, go on now with all your fun.

God Bless.

Sheila never has insulted anyone here since I've known her.
Posted by: anon-paranoid

Did someone accuse her of insulting anyone?

Maggie

"But I'll give you that Sen Obama had correct judgment in the matter of the Iraq war, with the caveat that it is usually good judgment to agree with one's constituents. "

Which probably explains why he removed that position from his web page when running for statewide office and then ALL of his votes in the Senate to go along with his party to finance the war he supposedly opposed.

Thanks Chloe. You would think I said something really controversial earlier. Obama arrogant? Obama believing his own hype? Obama worship on the part of the media and his fellow Senators? I thought these opinions were part of the national dialogue by now. Apparently I was mistaken.

chloe...

Define "us".

She means those of us who support Obama.

Ask Jamie about Sheila if you don't believe me.

Maybe I be back after work. Have a nice day.

God Bless.

Dog's Eye

Not all of the candidates removed their names from the Michigan ballot. See the election results above in the thread.

The reason "Uncommitted" got such a large percentage was that both Obama and Edwards encouraged their supporters to vote that way so that when the delegation was finally seated (as they all believed they would be), the uncommitted would be free to vote against Clinton.

Had you said why every other candidate took their name off the Michigan ballot as well, save Madame Clinton?

Every other candidate did not take their name off
more lies and idiocy from the Obama bots

Do you believe this crap you post

You would think I said something really controversial earlier. Obama arrogant? Obama believing his own hype? Obama worship on the part of the media and his fellow Senators?Ally

It's all old news.

Which probably explains why he removed that position from his web page when running for statewide office and then ALL of his votes in the Senate to go along with his party to finance the war he supposedly opposed.

Posted by: Jamie | May 29, 2008 11:12 AM

Jamie: I agree 100%. Actually, Kucinich was the only real anti-war candidate in this race.

Dog,

When you get a chance to read through today's posts, you'll see that not every other candidate took his name off the Michigan ballot. I can't remember who posted it, but they mentioned that several in the media have mis-reported that.

Dodd, Gravel, and Kucinich were on the ballot along with Senator Clinton and "uncommitted".

chloe...

"But it doesn't fit into her plan to intimidate you."

There's not no difference between insulting and intimidating.

You said her plans are to intimate you and others if read literally.

I'm out of here and will not argue with you.

Have a nice day.

God Bless.

chloe: "Did someone accuse her of insulting anyone?

From Ally "Sheila: The next time you are not really upset, don't use 4 question marks and then go on to tell me to take the high road. I believe your defensiveness and anger should be directed to other members of this blog. I rarely engage in petty discourse but I believe your attacks on me personally today were undeserved. Again: I make my remarks about the candidate"

I believe that qualifies as insulting anyone Sheila in particular

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

"That being the case, in what other areas has Sen Obama shown superior judgment? "- Maggisd

To state the obvious : As of 5/29, Obama - 1981 delegates Clinton- 1780 and don't forget to look at campaign bank accounts and debt lists.

Obama's taking his name of the ballot was pandering to Iowa. I know cause I live here. And frankly, it was a good move strategically. It was received as a very positive move by the Iowa press. Hillary's Iowa campaign was lacking in so many ways.

Here are theMichigan Ballot Results:

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/05/obamas-michigan-forefeit.html#comment-90283

Jamie: Exactly right on the anti-war thing. I suppose what irritates me most about the Obama campaign are his supporters, who seem to feel that he is above reproach and without flaw, rather than seeing him for what he is ... a shrewd politician who has frequently changed his position on even core issues ... such as nuclear regulation, for instance.
When I was 18 years old I jumped up and down and shrieked my lungs out for a candidate I thought had no flaws -- as great and good a man as he was, however, he too was a politician...who didn't get credit for Civil Rights legislation because he decided it was too politically risky an agenda to push until he had been re-elected. Sadly, he didn't survive to be re-elected and someone else got credit for the legislation ...
I don't mind my candidate being portrayed as a mere politician...I just wish others would accept that their candidate is also simply that ... a politician with ego and ambition.

Of course this has nothing to do with Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H11x6bMu4Y

From Ally "Sheila: The next time you are not really upset, don't use 4 question marks and then go on to tell me to take the high road. I believe your defensiveness and anger should be directed to other members of this blog. I rarely engage in petty discourse but I believe your attacks on me personally today were undeserved. Again: I make my remarks about the candidate"

I believe that qualifies as insulting anyone Sheila in particular

¡yo soy Horsedooty!
Posted by: yo soy Horsedooty!

Sounds like self defense to me.

Rez

"As of 5/29, Obama - 1981 delegates Clinton- 1780 and don't forget to look at campaign bank accounts and debt lists."

Which says a great deal about the voters and his campaign accountant. How does it reflect his judgement?

Last week Pelosi said Clinton is still in the hunt and could win

so don't make any snap judgements
you moron

Rezdog: What have those results to do with Obama's judgment? They suggest rather that David Axelrod ran a better campaign than Hilda Solis Doyle. And, David Axelrod found Obama, not the other way around.

yo soy Horsedooty!...

Dooty, its not worth the time or effort.

Take care and ...

God Bless.

BTW,

If you would like a mental vacation from all the sturm and drang of politics, today is the birthday of T.H. White and Camelot is always a nice place to visit.

http://jdurward.blogspot.com/

Ayers, Obama, Philanthropy, Corruption: What Big Media Refuses to Disclose about Obama’s Checkered Past in Chicago Machine Politics

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/29/ayers-obama-philanthropy-corruption-what-big-media-refuses-to-disclose-about-obamas-checkered-past-in-chicago-machine-politics/

Pelosi actually said, "you know she (Clinton) may still win this". .....
www.huffingtonpost.com/

and in the Huffington Post so you know it must be true

You are an ass if you think Pelosi intervening is only good news for Obama

Jamie: TY for the TH White info ... I had no idea. I have made it a practice for years to give that book as a present to every child I know ... for family reading. Not to mention giving Strunk and White as a sixth grade graduation gift.

maggisd said this, "I suppose what irritates me most about the Obama campaign are his supporters, who seem to feel that he is above reproach and without flaw, rather than seeing him for what he is ... a shrewd politician who has frequently changed his position on even core issues ... such as nuclear regulation, for instance."

where have anyone said anything like that maggisd? That came out of your imagination. You are just chapped that your candidate is losing is all.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

gotta go ... errands to run

where have anyone said anything like that maggisd? That came out of your imagination. You are just chapped that your candidate is losing is all. ¡yo soy Horsedooty!

More dooty from Horsedooty.

Someone has to clean up some of the mess on the road that keeps blocking the way, so the others can keep on drivin'.

They are saying a lot that we'd like to listen to.

Corey, not to point out the obvious - well, actually, to point out the obvious - this is not 1960, Obama is not JFK, and Clinton is not LBJ. The odds are against it.

Scott McClellan on KO tonight. I may have to temporarily give up my boycott.

Obama: I am the winner

.Sounds like some tinhorn dictator declaring victory after suppressing votes

I think I will declare myself the winner of Mr. Universe

BO: I believe so

I guess you would if you atttend Trinty Church

dog, please - not every candidate except Clinton removed their names from the MI ballot. Some did, some didn't. Cllinton, Kucinich and Gravel (yeah, I know) were on the ballot. Obama, Edwards, Dodd, Richardson and Biden were not.

Someone should tell Senator Obama that even after Tuesday that, at best, he would still only be the "Presumptive Nominee". Nobody but nobody is the nominee until after the first delegate ballot in Denver at the soonest.

COLORADO BOB LIVES!!!

I just spoke with one of the owners of the Tornado Gallery, who told me that C'Bob is doing very well. He's no longer housebound, and has developed a number of new interests, including gardening, recycling, wind power, etc. So...his focus has shifted away from the computer because he's pretty active in the things he's doing.

I asked that he pass along to C'Bob that we miss him and would love to hear from anytime, but that we're most happy that he's alive and having fun!

Thought all of you who know and care about C'Bob would want to know the good news....

Hello All,

I'm not feeling well today so I didn't bother to read today's thread. However this email I just got from Betus.com leaves me squarely in "Whatthefuckland" today...

B-E-T-T-I-N-G on the Spelling Bee?
-
BetUS online sportsbook customers can bet on a major "sporting event" taking place May 29-30 in our nation's capital. OK, I know what you're thinking, it may not be sports betting per say. But online betting on the National Spelling Bee can be as exhilarating as betting on any major sporting event.

Ready for this?

Thought all of you who know and care about C'Bob would want to know the good news....
Posted by: harborwoman

I didn't know him, but feel as though I did through others here. This sounds like a miracle. Wait until 9/11 hears.

Ally,

just for the record, I really do respect your beliefs that Obama is a shyster. I just don't happen to believe them myself.

I never said I wasn't upset (????) just trying to be civil about it while pointing out that remarks like that are what blow things up here.

Also that many more remarks are shed here than should be. There are a lot of better ways to get your point across.

I hope we can understand one another soon.

HW

WOW!!! That is wonderful. We all feared the worst. It is so good to know he is with us. His is a bright light that you don't want to think of as going out.

If anyone is having this election stolen from them it is Hillary Clinton and the over 17 million people who have voted for her - period!

His is a bright light that you don't want to think of as going out.
Posted by: Jamie

A happy day after all.

Great news about Colorado Bob. Thanks for that pickup this AM Harborwoman.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Guys,

Can we agree that if Clinton isn't getting out of this race until the convention. She's like the Dark Knight and will continue to rationalize and rationalize until her own SD's leave her? And can we agree that if she doesn't get out in June, that she's put Clinton ahead of the Democratic Party? She'll go back to the Senate as the most reviled member next to Joe Lieberman.

I am pleased for all the friends of Colorado Bob. I have read a lot of comments about him and I know what a relief and joy it must be to hear that he is alive and well. Most of all, I am pleased for Colorado Bob himself, and hope some day he does post here so I can make a proper introduction. One of the nicest things about this blog and that most people leave an important mark, not only in their words but also in the hearts of others.

Tom

Great News!

I'm so glad to know Cbob is still around!

harbor -- started your book...great job with the genre!

EuroTom,

A civil voice in the midst of all this Caos. SWAK!

Mr. Democrat

"Can we agree that if Clinton isn't getting out of this race until the convention. She's like the Dark Knight and will continue to rationalize and rationalize until her own SD's leave her? And can we agree that if she doesn't get out in June, that she's put Clinton ahead of the Democratic Party? She'll go back to the Senate as the most reviled member next to Joe Lieberman. "

Uh Let me think about it ...

NO

Just read that a superdelegate from Puerto Rico can't seem to make up his mind...Kevin Rodriguez started out committed for Hillary, then switched to Obama, and has now switched back to Hillary. I think he's the first to switch in that direction....

some of you are obviously upset that this place hasn't turned into a "rah, rah, go Obama" site by now..... tough....
get over it or don't...... the choice is your's.... enjoy!

I get up everyday and sing in my shower...... even with Bush as president....
I truly believe that life is what each individual makes of it.....

This was posted by RebelliousRenee yesterday. I think it was something well said.

I don't really forsee Clinton supporters here warming up to Obama as the nominee. I also don't see Obama supporters here warming up to Hillary as the nominee , although it's considered a forgone conclusion that she won't be the nominee. We've been fighting this same fight for months now. I'm not saying that people won't for the other candidate. But , it's not worth fighting about it here.

Thanks, Patsi. You'll notice I wrote what I knew...only had to research my hero's life...and both locales. Let me know what you think, but...as I said before...be gentle!

But , it's not worth fighting about it here.
Posted by: Corey

But Corey, where else are we going to fight about it?
Isn't that the beauty of this place. Working through things.

You'll notice I wrote what I knew...only had to research my hero's life...and both locales. Let me know what you think, but...as I said before...be gentle!
Posted by: harborwoman

I hope you don't mind my asking. But did you write a book?
And if so, can you tell me how to find it.

Blog buddy of mine is getting into photography ... today's are Joni Mitchell and clouds

http://mouseski.blogspot.com/

Stop by to play the music, look at the pretty pictures, and say hi!

Basically, I was saying that if John Edwards were gay, you probably would be stalking him right now until he decided to date you...or you would give up one of your testicles for the opportunity...

Chloe , one minute we've moved on to the general. Obama no longers even mention Hillary's name. Hillary doesn't matter , yet we've been fighting about her and Obama all morning. So , she must matter a little bit. Nobody here has been able to change the minds of others as to which candidate they are supporting. We've been working things through for quite some time now. LOL!

We've been working things through for quite some time now. LOL! Posted by: Corey

Corey,
Thanks.
But that's not the kind of "working through" I was talking about.

It was a personal and individual type of working through I was thinking about. I never expect to change anyones mind about anything.

Chloe...

Yes, approximately a million years ago...in another lifetime entirely...I wrote a Harlequin American Romance. It's title is "Raven's Song" and my pen name is Caron Welles. Romances have a short shelf life, so the only place it can be found is secondhand. I think amazon has them for nearly nothing.

And, Chloe...you should also know that Patsi has written MANY books! Ask her about them....

. It's title is "Raven's Song" and my pen name is Caron Welles. Romances have a short shelf life, so the only place it can be found is secondhand. I think amazon has them for nearly nothing. Posted by: harborwoman

Thanks Harborwoman.

My husband bought me one of the Amazon electronic books (Kindle) and I have yet to download anything on it. But I will start with yours if I can find it. If not, I'll order it online like I usually do.

Chloe...you should also know that Patsi has written MANY books! Ask her about them....Posted by: harborwoman

Really?
Ok Patsi, what are they?

I may be mistaken, but I think Patsi wrote Arsenic and Old Lace...

S(he) called me a name.

Did not.

did to

did not

did to

You kids stop fighting or I'm going to stop this car.

Mr. D

you are nth degree jerk. Go back to your Bye, Bye handle, you may have tried to change your name, but not your stripes.

may be mistaken, but I think Patsi wrote Arsenic and Old Lace...Posted by: Mr. Democrat

Until I met people like you, Mr. Democrat, I didn't know what really mean meant. And I have been on this earth a long time, so you can't call me naive. But I'm sure you'll have some really cool other things to call me.

Hillary...the voters' choice for President!!!!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/05/obamas-michigan-forefeit.html#comment-90447

Harborwoman gets the Sleuth-of-the-Year award for locating Colorado Bob. If there is any chance to get an address for him, a long time ago I got Helen Thomas to sign her book to CB and want to send it. The address i did have didn't work, book was returned. Great work, Harborwoman!

Jamie,

You forgot that even though I am allergic to seafood, I make the best crab cakes in the state of Texas! lol

Which candidate, while the frontrunner, accepted debate after debate after debate?

Hillary!!!!!

Thanks Jamie

Chloe

Go to Amazon and do a search for Patsi Bale Cox

She has done several biographies with major country performers among other things.

This brief interlude brought to you by "Peace In Our Time" ... now back to the war.

Posted by: Jamie | May 29, 2008 12:59 PM

LOL And thanks for the smile today.

YOU TOO can add your name to the civility list. This is turning out to be a good day.

HarborW.....
GREAT NEWS!!!!!! doing happy happy dance for CBob.....

"It was a personal and individual type of working through I was thinking about. I never expect to change anyones mind about anything."

Chloe.... my personal evolution through this primary has been a total surprise to me..... I always thought that once I retired from being an election official and having an independent status, I would go back to being a Democrat and campaign for that side.....

I have been invited by many people to join them in the fight for the Democratic Party here in NH (including someone from this blog)..... but I could never quite pull the trigger..... so I decided to experiment on this blog by writing at the end of my posts "GO DEMOCRATS!"..... but I never felt comfortable with it.... especially as more and more started saying that didn't think Obama was qualified to be president and they were thinking about voting for McCain.....

as someone who's never been afraid to voice my opinion..... I was very surprised by these feelings..... and I have now come to the conclusion that instead of fighting for one side over the other..... my true passions have been what I've been doing all along..... and that is fighting for fairness in the process and the right for everyone to have their voice heard no matter what side they're on by voting.....

and that evolution took place on this blog.....
so keep working through your issues..... your voice is as valuable as anyone else's here....

Sheila,

Could you spank your bad tempered terrier with a folded newspaper or something ... when he isn't yapping and chasing cars, he's quite interesting.

Go to Amazon and do a search for Patsi Bale Cox

She has done several biographies with major country performers among other things.
Posted by: Jamie

Will do.

Corey....
thank you for that compliment you gave me last night....

wow.... that was some basketball game last night.....
I really thought your Pistons were going to pull it out in the last minutes....
usually I'm just trying to stay awake until the buzzer goes off..... but last night I was wide awake and enjoying the battle until the very end.....

Keeping an untrained dog is not a kindness especially one that bites without provocation and runs into other people's yards and poops

Yeah, but isn't that what "watch dogs" do?

Posted by: chloe | May 29, 2008 1:18 PM

No. They are supposed to stay in their own yards.
Biting dogs are considered dangerous dogs in all fifty states including Michigan and Florida.

and that evolution took place on this blog.....
so keep working through your issues..... your voice is as valuable as anyone else's here....Posted by: RebelliousRenee

Renee,
Though only looking from the outside in, I have great respect for you. So your words meant a lot to me. Thank You.

Harbor........pretty cool about bob......if you hear anything else i'm sure you'll lettuce know.........

Thanks for the efforting........

A few weeks ago the Rev. Wright was suppose to speak in Philly at the end of May. I wonder if he is still going to. It could be an interesting Sunday, if he opens up again, the results from PR and the MI/FL decision all on the same day.

The Rev. Jeremiah Wright watch: He's taking a rest
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/05/the-rev-jeremia.html

Then why has no one called animal control?

Posted by: chloe | May 29, 2008 1:32 PM

Animal control has been called but enablers hide the dangerous and unruly beast and claim they have no responsibility

That is amazing, wonderful and miraculous news about Colorado Bob who is known to me only through your collective sharings. But he's another example why it's important to never give-up or give-in to the "the impossible."

tacky tock
The Obama campaign is aleady trying to blame Clinton for the general election loss

Why shouldn't you tell a secret around a clock?

Because time will tell.

Tick Tock.

Rats, I just found another cancel story. Oh well wishful thinking.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-05-20-wright-philadelphia_N.htm?csp=34

Okay, okay, so it wasn't Arsenic and Old Lace. Maybe it was the Tony Orlando one that caught my fancy?

bear, to be feeling poorly, you are particularly sharp today.

Great news about C-Bob.

btw, folks, no matter who wins, neither of the candidates will bw stealing any election from anyone. One of them will win the nomination, more or less in accordance with the rules. True, to the loser's supporters it may feel like a theft, but hey, it's just a f*cked up system of rules.

Chloe,

If you are still around Senor Horsedooty is an accomplished photographer:

http://www.texaschurchproj.com/

Posted by: Mr. Democrat | May 29, 2008 1:42 PM

Your speed is Curious George

Good to see you Pogo! Well reasoned thought always gives me a feeling of letting out some stress.

the system IS messed up. Too late for this year, but the next time it had better be resolved.

My next question?
Has he had his rabies shot?

Posted by: chloe | May 29, 2008 1:44 PM

Have not gotten close enough to check for tags.
But a very good question.

If you are still around Senor Horsedooty is an accomplished photographer: http://www.texaschurchproj.com Jamie

Nice site, nice work. I like it.

Do you have a copy of that letter from Obama to the Michigan Secretary of State?

Here's one for Obama fans. How about THIS news?!

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/20951/Barack-Obama%E2%80%99s-Unlikely-Supporter-Rupert-'Fox-News'-Murdoch?tickers=nws,msft,yhoo,nyt

"the system IS messed up. Too late for this year, but the next time it had better be resolved. "

The party had better clean up this mess. It is likely the Obama/Clinton ticket will serve eight years. That gives them a freebie election in the middle to do a 2012 trial run for 2016 and a chance to groom major candidates. We don't need a repeat of this nonsense again.

Well Corey! LOL he had the audacity to endorse Clinton and give her money....

I guess he has changed his mind. ;0) Its Obama's turn for discomfort.

Seeing who people are sure makes it more difficult to talk unkindly to them when I feel they've offended someone. And now I can see where a lot of people here are coming from.

But I also don't think it justifies the injustice I often see.

And to see some of them gang up on other posters can be quite painful to watch. And most have their own secret weapons they use, and it's hard to argue with someone when they keep changing the subject.

My friends would never sit around and watch the gang banging I've seen happening here on occasion.

But most everyone here is beyond nice and gracious, and are not to be included in that very few that I'm saying that about.

“Always be nice until it’s time not to be nice”
Patrick Swayze, Road House

greenclouds, don't have a copy of Obama's affidavit withdrawing his name from Michigan ballot, but maybe MI Secretary of State can provide if you really want it: http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,1607,7-127--177580--,00.html

Does that mean that Obama will now have MSNBC and FOX News in the pocket? It's kinda funny how Murdoch isn't supporting the Republican nominee. Maybe FOX News IS fair and balanced! LOL!

"as I said before...be gentle!"

No need for any false praise, harbor -- you've done a great job. I think the Nashville setting is handled interestingly -- you didn't "try too hard" as I've sometimes seen people do setting things within this industry. Plus you are a very good writer.

Sheila, I'm working and lurking. How's life on the left coast so far? You and the 'rents driven each other to drink yet? Delighted that Bob is still, well, Bob.

As for the dog, animal control said that if you stay out of his yard and ignore him you won't get bitten and he may shut up. Animal control is sometimes wrong.

Awe but Jamie, I disagree.

YOu don't know if Obama will do only 4 years....or if he is going to get it at all.

But your "Untried" Candidate has an equal chance of making the right decsisions based on McCains chances of making wrong ones.

In other words, the book hasn't been written yet.

"I think Patsi wrote Arsenic and Old Lace"

I wish. That would be serious mailbox money.

"Please have all your pets spayed or neutered." - Bob Barker

Sheila,

Read it again. I said he would serve 8 years allowing for a test run of the system changes in the middle of the two terms.

"Please have all your pets spayed or neutered." - Bob Barker
Posted by: Corey

And I for one always follow that advice.

But is a "watch dog" really a pet?

President Bill Clinton's security detail is increased whenever Mrs. Obama is within 500 miles

Woops! Sorry Jamie!

"out of concern for Obama's safety the Secret Service has nixed the idea"

yap, yap, yip, yip, tire bite, growlff, pant, pant, pant, woof.

chloe...

And I'm really not bad either, ask Sheila.

Back to work.

God Bless.

Tick tock

yap, yap, yip, yip, tire bite, growlff, pant, pant, pant, woof.
Posted by: Jamie

ugh! He peed on my leg again.

And I'm really not bad either, ask Sheila.
Back to work.
God Bless.
Posted by: anon-paranoid

Someone, please tell me.

NEW THREAD

I had a cop pull a badge on my dog Rance in a parking lot of a local restaurant. Was standing outside talking to a guy about some cows and cow dogs when my dog trotted up to a guy getting out of a car and took a "sniff". The guy an undercover cop took exception and told me to put a leash on this dangerous dog or he was calling the pound. I ask if I could put him back in the truck and he said ok but remember Ft Worth has a leash law. The girls with him looked impressed at his power.

¡yo soy Horsedooty!

Chloe,

Anon-p is a great human being. He tends to stick up for his friends though. just like you and I.

I first met Anon...three years ago? When the blog first began. He was very afraid and all of us spent a lot of time calming his nerves about the state of the country and he in turn made some predictions that had us in awe.

I woud say again, that if you and I reread most of this stuff, we would be able to see that most of the offense taken was not ment as such.

Anon-p is a very good human being.

New thread, kids.

The problem this year with MI and Fl this year illustrates the huge flaw in the allocation of delegates in the Democratic Party. In an effort for all potential nominees to stay viable they split the delegates in such a way that the popular vote winner in a primary does not win a large segment of the delegates. That would keep a minor candidate viable at least for awhile but for two major candidates, it invites the decision to be made by super delegates. Hopefully in four years we can fix the system to do away with caucuses, apportion the delegate split in primaries to reward the winner with more delegates. In addition we could limit the supers to members of congress and governors and not DNC members and other political operatives.

As to the ticket: It may not have occurred to the Obama campaign yet but unless they add Senator Clinton, they risk losing in November. Maybe they could win without her, but with her they would be assured of a win. Putting in a substitute woman (Sebillius) or a Clinton supporter (Clark, Vilsack) will not pacify or unify the Clinton supporters. Clinton has won 50% of the vote and it is a loyal and committed vote.

Mr. Crawford; I just saw you on Abrams....it must be extremely frustrating trying to reason with morons and people with an agenda.
I hope that Jennifer Granholm and Carl Levin get the message and don't agree to the (scummy) DNC rules meeting.
Hillary definitely should go the convention floor, and if the insults and condecension remain she should take her people out. I think the voting procedures of the Democratic Party are slightly insane, and that a lot of people didn't understand them until this primary where all this BS came to light - isn't transparency somebodys mantra.
I mean, what's the point of PEOPLE coming out to vote if the electoral college is going to make the decision, Florida will really be put out this time and will without doubt vote for McCain in Nov. if BO is the nominee.
Ms. Pelosi - who can't stand the idea of another woman having more power than her in Washington, she's what - 3rd in line for the presidency, should butt out or join with Obama's preachers black and white.
Whatever happened to separation of church and state. The GOOF apologised later but there was no judge(media)there to tell the jury to disregard his words..........
I guess I'd be tearing out my hair if we didn't have this medium to vent on. Once again, many thanx.

The Obama camp is very quick in pointing out how the Clinton campaign's flawed strategy and lackluster tactics cost them the caucus states.

Now it's their turn to suck it up and accept their own responsibility for poor strategy and dumb tactics costing them Michigan and Florida.

Let Florida stand as is, and grant Mr Obama 87-pct of the uncommitted Michigan ballots.

Do not formally penalize Mr Obama for his illegal Orlando news conference

Not only should Obama TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for the act of removing his name from the MI ballot, voters - especially SUPER DELEGATES - should recall how he constantly derided Hillary for her initial vote on Iraq. These situations are similar in that both candidates made regretful choices. However, only Hillary has been made by the media & populace to accept responsibility for her choice. Obama should not get any MI delegates; he chose not to be an option on the ballot & should bear the consequences!!!

Should the party leaders delude themselves that "uncommitted" = obama, they would do well to recall that John Edwards is presumed to be part of that block. Thus, Obama should get no more than 50% of that portion!

Those who would preclude that no votes in MI or FL would count suffer from political myopia. Political pontificating & posturing have been a part of the democratic process for years. For anyone to think that millions of voters' efforts & wishes ultimately would be ignored completely is pure delusion! I, for one, do not want a DELUSIONAL CANDIDATE running for President!!!

I agree with you Craig. Obama chose to have his name removed in Michigan and it was political. So he gets no votes in Michigan.

Actually, since he ran ads on TV in Florida (trying to get around the rules is sneaky and dishonest) and held a press conference (against the rules), he should get no votes in Florida either. But we know the rules are special for The Chosen One, don't we?

Hillary '08

http://mybarackobama.com/page/community/post/derrickjackson/CCgd/com

Post from Washtenaw County For Obama Blog:
It ain't over in Michigan!
By Derrick - Dec 15th, 2007 at 8:54 pm EST
Also listed in: 10 groups

Comments | Mail to a Friend | Report Objectionable Content
So here we are in Michigan with Barack not on the ballot and we still believe that we can win. That's what I call hope. Yes, I was down after seeing Barack withdraw his name from the Michigan ballot, but we still have a choice to make. By voting "Uncommitted" on the January 15th ballot we can send a powerful message and set Barack up for a victory.
Here's how it works.
STEP 1: Make sure you are registered to vote by the December 17th deadline.
STEP 2: On January 15, 2008 go to your local voting location and proudly cast your vote for Senator Barack Obama by voting "UNCOMMITTED" on the ballot.
STEP 3: Remeber not to write-in Senator Obama. If you do the vote will not be counted. By Michigan election law, Barack would have until the 2nd Friday prior to election day to officially declare himself a valid write-in. If that does not happen then writing his name on the ballot will not count.
STEP 4: After we send a powerful message through our "UNCOMMITTED" campaign we will all need to be registered with the Michigan Democratic Party so that we will be able to vote in the District Conventions. If we have enough Uncommitted votes in the primary then District Conventions will be required in order to select which candidates recieve the delegates from Michigan. District Conventions will be held on March 29th and only MDP members can vote.
Bottom line is that Barack can still win Michigan even though he is not on the ballot.

PLEASE PASS THE WORD

There will be a conference call for all Obama supporters in Michigan on Tuesday, Jan. 8. Please check the michigandersforobama.com website tomorrow to get the time and call in number.

We will be discussing the Jan. 15 "Uncommitted" vote and how to turn those Jan. 15 "Uncommitted" votes into electing "Uncommitted delegate on March 29, 2008 to go to the Democratic National Presidential Convenvention in Denver, Colo where we then can declare as committed delegates for Sen. Obama.

Wow! This is unconscionable!

Please help spread the word on the Obama campaign's uncommitted vote scheme in Michigan.

Obama voluntarily took his name off the ballot in Michigan to avoid losing to Hillary Clinton in Michigan between Iowa and New Hampshire. Then his he and his campaign did campaign in Michigan by pushing their supporters to vote uncommitted. Then when they lost in Michigan, they have done everything they can to block those delegates from being seated as voted.

Please help spread the word!

The Obama campaign campaigned in Michigan in violation of the no campaign pledge they signed. The proof of that is on Obama's own website. Names of people, phone numbers, links to the flyers used. It is all there and the Obama camapign has yet to scrub it from their site. America deserves to know the truth about Obama's uncommitted vote scheme in Michigan and his lies to try and cover up his tracks. It's all on the Obama website! Obama voluntarily removed his name from the Michigan ballot and then in a calculated effort, worked to push his supporters to vote uncommitted. Obama lost Michigan. Hillary won Michigan! The votes in Michigan have been cast, counted, and certified. The delegates from Michigan MUST be allowed to count and be seated for Hillary Clinton at the Democratic NATIONAL Convention in Denver.

Check it out and spread the word!

Check these comments out – this is just a sample of them:

By Eboni Jan 5th 2008 at 7:53 pm EST
PLEASE PASS THE WORD

There will be a conference call for all Obama supporters in Michigan on Tuesday, Jan. 8. Please check the michigandersforobama.com website tomorrow to get the time and call in number.
We will be discussing the Jan. 15 "Uncommitted" vote and how to turn those Jan. 15 "Uncommitted" votes into electing "Uncommitted delegate on March 29, 2008 to go to the Democratic National Presidential Convenvention in Denver, Colo where we then can declare as committed delegates for Sen. Obama.

Christina Montague
State Director
Michiganders For Obama
By Diamond Gal Jan 6th 2008 at 3:34 am EST
Hi!
Can you call me at 313-671-3972. I have access to air time that could be made availble to you.
But you have to act quickly. Please call me by noon today.
Thanks.
By Susan from Grand Rapids, MI Jan 8th 2008 at 10:42 am EST
Voting "Uncommitted" is what the Michigan Democratic party has asked us to do. Is that really what Barack Obama wants us to do? He left his name off the ballot for a reason---I understand that to be that the national party didn't want the election moved up, but the Michigan Democratic party did. I am not uncommitted; I am for Obama! Why doesn't a write-in count in a democracy?

Wow! So the Michigan Democratic Party also told Obama supporters to vote uncommitted. Very interesting indeed. I tell you what, those webpages on Obama's website and the comments on them really expose the uncommitted vote scheme by the Obama camapign and what they did in Michigan and soe of the people involved. Might take a little digging this morning, but look at the phone numbers, the names of the people in the comments, and their website as well. The guy named Derrick (obviously an Obama supporter) knows a lot about the scheme in Michigan. And the use of the Obama campaign website to promote the uncommitted vote scheme in Michigan is proof that Obama and his campaign were involved and campaigning in Michigan.