Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Thanks to Ping Pong, AP and Jennbe for showing up last night at my Orlando speech (Jennbe drove 6 hours through a truck fire to get here -- WOW!). Glad we had some quality time afterwards with each other (and some great pasta).

Ah is this the first lister? possible wo ho

Barack Obama's disdain toward the voters of West Virginia illustrates why he will be flawed candidate in the November election.

Oh boy now it's the 47 state strategy

mags:

Obama is not an "elite" like 109M-dollar Clinton - and McCain - who has married into untold fortunes.

The Clintons AND the McCains have been living in the elite bubble of Washington DC - where almost everyone is a millionaire - and most haven't pumped their own gas in years.

Craig: As you know, Obama believes he can re-make the electoral college map. It might be interesting to discuss how he does that.
I am inclined to give him Virginia (although narrowly), but I am suspicious of some of his other claims. Running against McCain in the west might be an uphill battle...McCain not only appeals to Hispanics (and Obama does not) but he has a very good record with native Americans, a core Democratic constituency in several of the more rural western states.

56% of those surveyed indicate they will vote for Clinton compared to 18% for Obama. There are 26% undecided voters, according to the poll of 403 voters by Mark Blankenship Enterprises. Compared to a previous MBE poll in February, Clinton is up 13%, while Obama's numbers haven't changed.
In terms of the GE, Obama appears to have no chance in West Virginia while Clinton could likely win it:
http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/18714764.html

LATimes GE Poll: Clinton Beats McCain By 9, Obama Wins By 6
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-na-poll10-2008may10,0,225570,full.story

mags:

And if we're trading degrees I have one in International Relations as well (and one in Philosophy - I figured one was for my professional life - and the other was for my personal life : ).

And I also studied the law and theories concerning use of force in law school.

And Foreign Policy is one of the primary reasons I support Barack Obama. And the main reason why we need to get a Democrat in the White House.

Back to the Grades - Craig A for theory and A+ when you connect WV withwhat BHO is doing to Florida.
Now that it does not matter (in his mind) gosh I welcome you..
BHO ; :WHERE WAS THIS MONTHS AGO..
Change Change everywhere the change

Just put your hands on the Change in your pockets

Morning peeps,
Gee Craig I don't think Obama is snubbing WV, he's giving Hillary a wide berth so she can exit on a high note.

Warren - wealth and elite mind set are two different animals.
BHO well at some point have the wealth.
Right now he has the elite attitude.

Having Wealth does not make McCain or HRC elite attitude, hey look at Warren Buffet

nick:

It was based on a culmination of your work. And I sure as hell am not about to scurry back and cut and paste the evidence for you.

(I said my peace - no need to embarass you further.)

He prefers to avoid "clingers" whenever possible - they are not sophisticated enough for SNOBama.

Warren: I was making a comment about his speech pattern, not his origins. He sounds like a west coaster. Period.
And, he is not "from" Kansas. He was born in Hawaii and lived either there or in Indonesia through most of his life. His mother was from Kansas.
As for elitism...I didn't go there, but since you did...it's not about wealth, elitism is attitudinal.

nick:

It was based on a culmination of your work. And I sure as hell am not about to scurry back and cut and paste the evidence for you.

(I said my peace - no need to embarass you further.)

Posted by: warren | May 10, 2008 12:25 PM

and someone named a category of bullsh-t in honor of you

OK - so now people should vote for Clinton because she "promises" she will win West Virginia in the general election.

promise, promise, lie, promise, attack your opponent's ideas, promise, mis-statement, promise, promise, diminish and denigrate your opponent, promise . . .

That is "old Washington politics" and if it has not worked so far - what makes you think it will start working now?

LA Times/Bloomberg

Clinton beats McCain by 9
Obama beats McCain by 6

My first post....Thank you Ping Pong for inviting me to hear Craig last night. It was nice to meet Jennbe and AP, too! Craig, thank you for a great evening. The crowd was great and I can hardly wait to read The Politics of Life. Thanks for the dinner afterwards. (I'm eating my leftover pasta right now). Your parents are super people and I enjoyed meeting them. By the way everyone, many of Craig's former teachers came to hear him speak last night (his first speech teacher from middle school), a retired principal from our high school, and an 89-year old retired teacher from the district!! Take care!!!

warren: Well, we each take different lessons from what we learned in school and what we have learned in life. I guess I'm more of a Truman Democrat than a Jimmy Carter Democrat. I didn't vote for Carter and I don't much admire him. I do not think of myself as a person who welcomes or supports war (as I said, I think going into Iraq was not only foolish, it was immoral), but I am definitely not in the "can't we all just get along" school of thought.

Obama is the pyrite candidate...the 'powers that be' in the Democratic party could care less about more than half the party. It is about their choice and it make the democratic party seem, not so democratic. Who nees Florida, Michigan, West Virginia, typical old white woman or bitter voters, for that matter?

CAT:

Polls are not facts. In fact, polls regarding an election are almost entirely useless - except in the few days leading up to the actual vote.

Basing an argument on polls about an election 6 months away is a losing argument.

(Remember - Mark Penn was the Chief Pollster - and he is who ran the Clinton ship into the iceberg. All this "micro-targeting" divides people and leads to piece-meal solutions to complicated problems...like the "gas tax holiday".)

Blonde: Typical white women of a certain age. Let's be precise here. ;)

I am not a Jimmy Carter Democrat.

If anything - I am a Reagan-Clinton-Obama Independent.

Sorry for the typos..."it makes the democratic party seem not so democratic. Who needs"
But, I am ignoring letters the way the party is ignoring a large number of us loyalists!

Seeds of Destruction
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/10/opinion/10herbert.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin

Warren
Polls are facts. They are snapshots in time.
The history of elections in this country has followed certain patterns.

As yet you have shown no facts that indicate your candidate can remake the electoral college map.
No Democrat has previously won without West Virginia. You seem to think your candidate can but you offer no facts to support that.

Warren-That gas-tax holiday sure looks mighty appealing to people who drive 45 miles one way to work and can't afford to buy a nice little hybrid.
Do you know if Obama's plans include tax credits toward the purchase of hybrids?
One of McCain's advisors, former head of CIA under Clinton, is making the idea of plug in hybrids his life's work right now. IMHO this is one of the most important ideas out there right now.

I think most of us now realize and have accepted that the Democratic leadership have decided to go ahead and lose the White House to McCain in hopes of winning a landslide of down ballot races. So what does it matter if he competes in West Virginia - which he could lose by . . . triple digits . . . ok ok it won't be that bad - he'll lose by 25%-30% (even though ARG has him losing it by 40%).

;-)

Warren: If I implied I thought you were a Jimmy Carter Democrat, I apologize. My point is that I think Sen Obama is a Jimmy Carter Democrat.

Polls are not facts, and primary election results are not forecasters of the general election outcome.

warren: Not that I have yet heard Sen Obama claim that God speaks to him. That is one good sign. :)

"Oh boy now it's the 47 state strategy"

Dr. Dean's nightmare - you mean 57 state strategy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws

;-)

mags:

You are probably a realist. Which is a good take on Foreign Policy. And so is Obama.

(Despite his high-soaring rhetoric - he is very practical and logical.).

I don't think isolating nations through threats and sanctions works well. Often broad sanctions can cripple economies - and hurt the people instead of the dictators. And when the economy goes in the gutter - the dictator wins even more support of his people - by relying on nationalism and blaming the US - not the UN.

And you know why countries are scrambling to get nuclear weapons? Because it gives them an automatic seat at the table. Under Bush, we only started paying attention to countries when they were thought to have to be close to having nukes.

I would rather sit down at the table with such countries before they get nuclear weapons - as opposed to after.

Zbigniew Brzezinski & Carter & Obama = ???

Wendy: I don't think the Dem leadership believes it will lose. They truly think that they can win and re-make the electoral map. You know how we liberals are...we think that if we can just explain our position one more time, everyone will be won over. And progressives are liberals on steroids.
What's sad here is that two political careers may well be ruined by this. Obama if he does not win, and Hillary because the real lefties will blame it on her. Funnily enough, a large part of the netroots were Naderites just a short while ago.

"promise, promise, lie, promise, attack your opponent's ideas, promise, mis-statement, promise, promise, diminish and denigrate your opponent, promise . . ."

Warren - so you do understand how Obama's mind works...

:-0

In group behavior, it is a classic to "freeze out" certain individuals. People so want to be loved and fed by the group that they will try even harder to become part of the group when rejected. I am sure the BHO campaign is so self-assured that they feel everyone will jump on the bandwagon for their candidate. The Senate and House dems have been impotent thus far and now they are attaching themselves to BHO. I agree with Wendy...I don't think they can pull this out in November. A lot will depend on McCain's choice of VP and he has the luxury of waiting until after the dem convention to announce the choice.

Obama rises from political obscurity to verge of history
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080510/ap_on_el_pr/obama_odyssey

Maggisd - you're probably right - Dem leadership is probably more delusional that tactical.

LOL

OK - off to take mother-in-law to early Mother's Day lunch.

Give me a break on the gas tax holiday mags.

First - it was McCain's idea - not Clinton's.

Second, I have always said - I think that a tax break should be targeted specifically to working class people. Give them the break - instead of pass a "tax cut" that gives a break to people that were not asking for one.

So we take money away from roads and bridges - projects which give working class people work by the way - to make it cheaper for "elites" to fill up their Hummers, limos and 10-car motor-cades...

It is a cheap gimmick designed to win votes. And one this Country can not afford given the fact we are already spending money like a drunken sailor. (And Clinton supporters sure cared a lot about "experts" when they were saying the "experts" supported her healthcare plan.)

And by ending the war in Iraq - we can quit borrowing so much money from other countries - which is driving down the dollar. And don't you think a weak dollar has something to do with the rising cost of oil?

Wino is that what you and the Clintonista are going to do between now and November degrade Obama's candidacy? Isn't it time to start rising above your own desires and start thinking about what's best for the nation and world.

Warren: You said -- I would rather sit down at the table with such countries before they get nuclear weapons - as opposed to after.
If you were the one sitting down with some mid-level Iranians or the like, that would be good. I presume you know that Mrs Albright spent a good two years trying to reach out to Iran....even including some idea that had to do with the Persian rug trade. She was bitterly disappointed.
I am not in favor of sanctions either...unless they are broad-based and the government in question is at least quasi-capitalist (think South Africa).
But the vision Sen Obama is putting forward sounds to me as if he is proposing that we invite Hamas, Lil Kim, Akamadinner plate, et al to come to the White House.. or even worse that he engage in a world wind tour of a dozen places where ordinary American citizens are not welcome. IMHO this gives some truly evil people a status they don't deserve.
I don't think that order of high-level diplomacy is either necessary or wise. All it takes is the President saying -- if you want to use nuclear power peacefully you just have to sign on to the NNPT, abide by the protocols and know that if you develop a bomb, or if you use it, you won't survive it. Threats are not always a bad thing, although perhaps the word obliterate should be avoided.

Hey Folks it's all about Ohio.
If Kerry had won Ohio he would be president without carrying West Virginia. Of course the current polls and past performance don't look good for Obama in Ohio.
I'd be interested in hearing a strategy for winning there.

http://www.270towin.com/

Warren...we all get the fact that we are living on borrowed money...is the relief money we sent to Burma money we borrowed from China? Certainly the tax stimulus money is borrowed money. It is not McCain or Bush alone who have done this...it is our Senate and House (now in dem control). The war in Iraq is one piece of the pie and we still have to pay all of the money back! I agree that the continued voting of funding the war is so fiscally irresponsible.

Brian,

What -- not who -- is best for the nation and the world?

What is best for the global economy?

What is the best strategy for achieving that in the long term given the unprecedented amount of debt-holding companies which China has purchased over the past ten years... and their ever rising stake in the ownership of American T-bills?

What is the best strategy for addressing Putin and Russia... given the emerging policy for reabsorbing independent states back into a Soviet-style system?

What is the best strategy for imposing effective regulations on a wide array of financial service industries to prevent them from using the next device never designed to be a financial instrument as one?

There's so much more and this is more than enough for a start.

Do tell.

Brian: If Obama wants to bring the party together, it might be a good idea if he told his supporters to stop insulting the other candidate in such a disdainful manner. Brezenski compared her to Mamie Eisenhower, Kennedy says she is not worthy to be Vice President, etc, etc.

Warren: As to the roads and bridges...all that money is now commingled in the general fund.
Yes, I do think that all the borrowing has weakened the dollar. Sen Obama just today (heard it on NPR) again stated that we could use the billions were are spending in Iraq for needed projects at home. But we can't ....
On the other hand, Hillary has proposed that we pass laws allowing the Federal government to float bonds the way municipalities do. Available only to Americans, with the same type of deductibility, repayable through tolls and the like (I'd like to see the tolls not apply to local residents but that could be worked out in the legislation.
I am a strong believer in fiscal discipline.

As for the "57" state gaffe...Mr. Pyrite must have "lost his bearings!"

The Obama campaign has used the nuclear option on the Clintons and if I were the President and Senator
the Obama campaign would get no help from me. Including refusing to address the convention

Close-in supporters of Sen. Barack Obama's presidential campaign are convinced he never will offer the vice presidential nomination to Sen. Hillary Clinton for one overriding reason: Michelle Obama. The Democratic front-runner's wife did not comment on other rival candidates for the party's nomination, but she has been sniping at Clinton since last summer. According to Obama sources, those public utterances do not reveal the extent of her hostility.

Here's the thing folks. Michelle Obama kicked the campaign off by her one-time remark "How can you manage the White House if you can't manage your own house?" Although she then went on to talk about how she managed her own family, no politician not in a coma failed to realize that she had just articulated what the big-wigs feared most ... the GOP talking points against Bill Clinton back in the White House.

I hate to say this, because it sounds so ugly but, if Pres Clinton had not survived his bypass surgery, Hillary Clinton would have been the nominee by now.

maggisd

As I posted last night, Kennedy and company want to stomp HRC into the ground. Ignore her...there will be no VP spot, no Supreme Court nod and no repayment on her campaign debt. They want her to go away. The convention will only be about Obama.

WTF: Both the Obamas have made hundreds of very small, seemingly innocuous public comments designed to remind the political cognescenti of how the GOP would treat Hillary Clinton...and certain to anger President Clinton. In particular, was Obama's comparison of Clinton to Nixon in Reno more or less egregious than Clinton comparing Obama to Rev Jackson?

Wino is that what you and the Clintonista are going to do between now and November degrade Obama's candidacy? Isn't it time to start rising above your own desires and start thinking about what's best for the nation and world.

Posted by: BrianInNYC | May 10, 2008 1:01 PM

Now that made me laugh, Brian. : ))))) Oh, I am not that powerful!

Blonde I agree Teddy could have been more tactful regarding his reasons why he thinks Hillary will not be on the ticket come November. I agree with what he said, but he it could have been more artfully said. I do think Hillary is too counter to Obama's "brand" for them to share the same ticket. That being said I do think the VP slot will be filled by someone from the Clinton camp. Someone on Tweety yesterday said that Teddy is stepping up to the plate at this time to take the heat so Obama doesn't have to, that makes sense to me. However Blonde you're more than old enough to know that two wrongs don't make a right.

How is it wrong for the Clinton's to walk away when the Obama campaign and its supporters have denigrated them in the worst possible way.

Given what has been said, why would they want the support of people they find so horrible? I certainly would not want a racist endorsing my campaign not would I want the support of racists.

Obama just picked up another SD...it pretty much is over for Hillary.

Blondie: I think you are right -- the far left of the party intends to obliterate her. Teddy will never forgive her for quite reasonably pointing out that LBJ passed the civil rights legislation that JFK did not live long enough to get passed (he held off pushing for it for fear he would not be re-elected).

Brian: I would be quite pleasantly surprised if Obama chose a DLC type for VP...someone like Evan Bayh. But I won't hold my breath.

Oh Blonde I suspect your wrong about the convention, I think Hillary will be given a night at the campaign to make her "farewell" address and we'll have that moment of Hillary, Bill, and Chelsea standing on the stage being cheered by the crowd, Hillary signs much in evidence, probably the second night. I also think Obama will make some effort in helping to pay down her debt, why not? it cost him nothing, and what the hell I'll probably send her 25 bucks as a effort towards party unity. I have to say though the fact that so much of her debt is owed to Mark Penn is extremely disturbing for me and most of the Obama camp, and I think will damper the enthusiasm of the Obama crowd for helping her out.

WTF - very cogent remark. So I guess this really frees up all the typical white women of a certain age to vote for McCain?

Brian..if that happens..it won't be during prime time. And Clinton did pay the debt of several contenders...but, no one will remember that.

I don't think it will be Bayh, I'm thinking Clark.

PHEW.

News Corp. withdraws its bid to be Newsday.

Long Island exhales and resumes its dual life of North Shore beauty and South Shore glacial poop.

She'll get her prime time moment.

http://postcards.ucomics.com/get/?MsgID=11af4dd1cd9f4caf2d0f63a8ecf18dc3&site_ref=ucomics

"All this "micro-targeting" divides people"

Warren -- Obama started that crap when he began dissing baby boomers....saying we were out-of-touch and "old style."

Then his Bamatrons started posting things like "STFU and Get Out of Our Way."

Do you not see how that might offend some of who had worked for over 4 decades to build this party? Especially given that many of the Trons were independents who never gave a flip for our party. Do you truly not "get" that?

Obama cannot just "pay off" Clinton's debt.
It would violate FEC rules.
She will have not problem raising the money to pay off the debt and can do it without Obama's help.

This is just more hooey from the Obama campaign as a way to focus attention on senator clinton leaving the race instead of on the primaries where she is about to win with enormous margins

Patsi it's over, it's time to move on and unite behind the nominee if you're the great Democrat and liberal you keep claiming you are. In other words put up or shut up.

"Blonde: Typical white women of a certain age. Let's be precise here. ;)"

To be precise - this is what the media and the Clinton campaign is saying - not Senator Obama.

(That is what happens when you get the "facts" from cable news and campaign spin instead of C-SPAN and PBS...and I guess NPR - but I don't listen to the radio much.)

Plus, there are plenty of old white ladies voting for Obama. Some are "hopeful" that he can achieve a huge victory for the civil rights movement, and some are cynical and "bitter" about the last 8 years under Bush and the GOP - and believe that Obama can bring a real change to Washington.

(btw, what do you think about Obama's idea to put more of Washington on C-SPAN - increasing transparency and getting rid of all the back room deals. Meanwhile, at the Clinton camp, Harold Ickes is coming up with arguments to overturn the results of the primary...)

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/05/obamas-change-means-losing-wv.html#comment-80214

OrlandoTeach, welcome aboard. So glad you're wading in. Sorry the pool is a bit nasty today. (Geez, folks, is the F-word really necessary???)

WTF if she won't have trouble raising cash to pay off her 25 million debt why is she in such staggering debt. Post NC/Indiana she barely raised a million and it's costing about a million dollars a day to keep her campaign afloat. I suspect though that that figure has dropped considerably since. I know she's started scaling back.

Warren...I was just referring to the Grandmother remark made by Obama.

Brian -- In other words put up or shut up.

Posted by: BrianInNYC | May 10, 2008 1:45 PM

I know Patsi doesn't need my help, but I don't want her run-off again by abuse.

As I said last night. MIchelle Obama could give Lady MacBeth lessons in how to influence people.

Maggie and I are on the same page about politicians we respect and support.

NICK go back and read the last thread. If you did not type what is above your name, then you need to let Craig know because someone else was incredibly mean to Sheila just to start trouble. She aggravates me, but she didn't deserve that flare up or filthy expression.

I have to get some work done...I have only one vote in November (and who knows if that is really true?). I can't help shaking this sick feeling in my stomach that we have witnessed some brutal, back alley attack on a woman. I do not like how this has come down...same feeling I got election night when watching GWB storm off from dinner with Jeb when NBC announced that Gore had taken Florida. Sort of surrealistic for me.

Thanks all.

Blonde,
Patsi is not the one being abused, she's the abuser.

Blonde

The almost concerted attack by the top tier of the Democratic pary and the media against Sen. Clinton is enough to give anyone with a brain wondering if their tin hat is on straight.

It has been brutal and to her credit, she has withstood it all even in the face of foul mouthed accusations, snarky asides, and the incredible rudeness of Obama supporters and she has done it with grace and strength.

He may become President. If so, it will be the country's losss and a rotten shame.

"As yet you have shown no facts that indicate your candidate can remake the electoral college map."

I'll see your polls - and raise you actual votes:

Barack Obama Hillary Clinton

NC 875,683 652,824
VA 627,820 349,766
MD 532,665 314,211
WI 646,851 453,954
LA 220,632 136,925
CO 80,113 38,839
GA 704,247 330,026
MN 142,109 68,994

As you know, the Democrats have broken all records in terms of turn out and voter registration and have dwarfed the Republican total during the primary. Also, the "presumptive nominee" - for months now - is still losing votes to Huckabee and Paul. Obama will get a lot of Ron Paul's supporters - who are anti-war and pro-Constitution. Obama will even make a run at the evangelicals - who McCain is weak with.

Like O.J., Like Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsXVUlMqQs4

Obama is not an "elite" like 109M-dollar Clinton - and McCain - who has married into untold fortunes."

Sure quacks like one, acts like one, looks like one.... He is elitist. Remember the clinging to guns and religion statement?

http://postcards.ucomics.com/get/?MsgID=37f9afb7aa49de637a093dd7a79c6101&site_ref=ucomics

It was just reported on CNN that Obama will have 1 million volunteers working for the general. Staggering!

I think I have to rehash a little to defend myself. I did nothing this morning to be treated so hatefully.

Nick, I hope someday you will come down from this high enough to see what you have been doing.

Ignore Button On:

Chef Sheila Hussein The Nun --------------------

I can understand why you don't want to read anything negative about Obama. That "can't we all get along" talk is thrown out in an effort to shut down criticism.

Posted by: GORDO | May 10, 2008 9:54 AM

You see GORDO? I was extending a hand. My hands are open. After you get tired of trying to divide all of us into what you really want. Get to know us.

We're pretty nice people.

Posted by: Chef Sheila Hussein The Nun | May 10, 2008 10:00 AM

reg. We're pretty nice people.
You could have fooled me.
Some of your posts sound more pompous and divisive than nice.
Somehow that vision of you holding out your hand to anyone with a different opinion is hard to see. I keep seeing a fist.

Posted by: n | May 10, 2008 10:12 AM

nick, the only thing I ever did to you was....nothing?

Must be because I am simply an Obama Supporter....But here is the difference between me and you as I can see. I am a Clinton Supporter too.

I am very interested in the long run. As in getting the country back on another track to correct what the republicans have done.

So if you want the republicans back in for more of the same, then you and I have a lot that divides us.

Otherwise, the only other thing that does is time....that is all. have a great day.

Posted by: Chef Sheila Hussein The Nun | May 10, 2008 10:44 AM

Sheila,

Why don't you BITE THE BIG ONE.

I AM NOT n

You've got shit for brains.
And don't direct your diatribe at me.

Posted by: nick | May 10, 2008 11:50 AM

MAXTRUE,

You have been very divisive here. I always feel threatened by the way you write about anyone who doesn't agree with you.

Why in the world would I answer a question from you that is tinged with sarcasm and scorn.....just doesn't make any sence. When you have shown me and the rest of your "supposed enemies" some compassion or sensitivity, then I will happily give you my opinion.

But as long as your opinions of me, my fellow supporter, or Obama himself are so dire, I don't feel that its in my best interest to answer you ever.

If you ever change your mind....well there is always hope. ;0)

Afternoon All! Made it back in one piece today in the normal 3 1/2 hours it should take to get home from Orlando. Got stuck in a crazy traffic jam going to hear Craig speak yesterday, the kind where people get out of their cars and hang out for 2 hours. When I finally got through it, it was truck that looked like it had been on fire on exploded... Crazy!!

Thanks so much Craig for making the night so enjoyable for us! It was great to meet fellow C-Listers Anon-P, Ping Pong and Orlando Teach. Dinner was great and we were able to hang with Craig's Parent's as well, who were a blast, you can definately tell where Craig gets his great personality!

Thanks again Y'all!

Barack Obama has planned a party to claim the nomination in Portland, based on his own campaigns measurement. He can say whatever he wants, but it's an insult to intelligence to believe it until it happens by the rules. As Howard Dean has said many times, MI and FL are going to be resolved and seated. Obama has now agreed with that position. Like it or not, the working number of delegates is 2209. There's not a rule that says if you get a plurality of the pledged delegates, you win.

The Obama campaign will declare that there's never been a candidate denied the election who had the most pledged delegates. True. But has there been a candidate denied the nomination whose had the most votes? I don't think so. But neither of those metrics matters. 2209, or whatever the number is after the resolution of MI and FL happens to be, is all that matters. Until then, we don't have a nominee.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/10/2525/43509

Nick

This is one of the reasons I'm opposed to people being able to change their identities. It is awfully easy to mistake one person for another. I know Craig wants to make it possible for everyone to comment easily, but it might be worth having registration at least for the duration of the campaign.

If we are going to separate someone's head from their body, they have the right to see who is doing the deed before the lopping takes place.

Nick,

If I thought n was you....well I am sorry for that, but I didn't say much that was mean or rude even to this N....just trying to have a preaceful morning.

I even said nothing horrible to you in return, but you, my blog fellow were pretty scornfull.

I really think you should calm down and don't take my words so horribly.

You could have said, "Sheila thats not me" and I would have appologised. In addition, even if if wasn't you, the post was still as nice as I could make it. So I am going to say, "Slow Down". I'm not your enemy.

9/11:

I fully agree with the sentiment in your 1:10 post.

Although I am not sure what this means:

"What is the best strategy for imposing effective regulations on a wide array of financial service industries to prevent them from using the next device never designed to be a financial instrument as one?"

Lynn you can't keep going back to the popular vote and claiming it's a valid metric. The popular vote doesn't account for the caucus states.

JennBe

The group that got together in Vegas just adored his parents. I'm glad you go a chance to meet them

Lynn C

If I had anything of value to sell, I would do so to see Sen. Obama lose Oregon.

OD - get out there. We are depending on you now that they are at the 50/50 mark with the undecided. Throw in the margin of error and all things are possible.

http://www.presidentpolls2008.com/primary-election-poll-results/oregon-democratic-republican-polls.html

Raise you Florida and Michigan Warren

And let's take a good look at the Democrats voting in every State so far including Michigan and Florida.

After Obama loses a few more primaries and the polls show him slightly behind McCain while Hillary is ahead, I suppose Obamniacs would rather lose come November than win. That's how loyal they are to victory.

Tell us Warren, would your parents ever associate with the likes of Ayers, Auchi, Wright, Khalidi, Meeks, Moss, Farrakhan, Lee? Do your Jewish friends consider Malley, Zbig, McPeak, Power, Rice really supporters of Israel as Hizb'Allah, Iran, Hamas and others Flex there muscles? Or are your Jewish friends atheists and more Leftist thinking?

And how do you feel that we let a detainee out from Gitmo who immediately went back to Syria and then Iraq where he blew himself up killing seven people and injuring dozens?

How will you feel when Iran advances nuclear weapons under an Obama adminsitration? Or does nothing as the government in Pakistan makes nice with terrorists? What do you think Obama's response will be as more top cops are murdered in Mexico, cut US military aid? Or what will he do as Russia sets up a sub base off Caracas?

What do you think when Obama says no one is a greater supporter of Israel? Please find the record to support that claim. How long will you go on believing what a politican says and not their record, history, freinds, mentors and advisors?

Obama will cut military expenses and has targeted missile defense. Now that is a brilliant idea as he has zero plans to stop the proliferation of missiles and drones which such defense targets.

Still you want to believe so much, that facts are unimportant. Even basic anthropological principles like altruistic punishment mean nothing in the face of NeoLIberal promises and retreat.

Please tell us how affirmitive action will be changed to allow for all people to benefit? Please explain the conclusions of Michelle's thesis. Please explain why anything Obama promises is based in record and historical evidence. Did he even blast Rezko over the housing Obama endorsed? Did he take money from Ayer's father to get started in Chicago as Ayers jumped up and down on the flag. Do you have friends like this, or is your Independent status really BS?

Until you answer these questions, Obama is an empty suit supported by people's faith in his marketing. The world cares less of form. It is the substance of policy and strategy that changes anything.

You don't know how absurd you sound at times requiring me to chastize others for calling you foul names -not that I don't understand the rage.

Craig, do you favor the House version that aids the exclusive and partisan media, or the Senate version of the Freddom of the Press Bill, which leans towards a more Constitutional take on new rights to include the "people"?

Ron Paul supporters will never support the NeoLIberal expansion of government and social programs raising taxes. Wake up. And evangelicals will never support a Church whose minister thinks Jesus was a Black Palestinian. You live in an incredibly delusional world Warren, and it's getting rather silly. You are a comical cheer leader with little regard for facts or history. The only thing Ron Paul really shares with Obama is his preception of Israel and his supporters questionable feelings towards Jews. Yep, RP has a lot in common with Obama.

Jennbee!

chefstonesheila at geemail dot com

I don't suppose you have da pictchas! ;0)

"The popular vote doesn't account for the caucus states"

Which is a major problem for anyone who actually believes in a democracy. Unfortunately, we are stuck with it providing a way to steal an election. Sen. Obama took advantage of the legalistic loopholes and Sen. Clinton failed to see it coming and defend against it.

The nation is probably getting what it doesn't really deserve because of the Caucuses.

"Both the Obamas have made hundreds of very small, seemingly innocuous public comments designed to remind the political cognescenti of how the GOP would treat Hillary Clinton."

As opposed to the outright and sometimes outrageous things that the Clinton campaign says about Obama - like he is dangerous and we don't want him answering the phone at 3:00 am, like Clinton and McCain are patriotic - but we will have to see about this Obama guy.

Or how bout when the Obama campaign says the Clintons will "say anything and do anything to win an election." Of course, the Clinton campaign screams bloody murder and claims how dare they question HRC's honesty and integrity.

Even though her supporters love her because she "fights hard", the majority of voters have issues with her honesty - and there is a videotape that proves she lied on 3 separate occasions to the American people. And then Bill Clinton inexplicably lied again to try and cover up for her.

Whatever Max.

It kinda sounds like the pot calling the kettle black.
(Except I am a "comical cheer leader" and you are a "paranoid cheer leader".)

How does someone have a half of a Super Delegate?

I think we all agree the Democratic Party's complex web of rules is arcane and stupid.

Welcome OrlandoTech !!!

And excuse the rude behavior, very un Craiglister like but a few are still somewhat new to Craigslist. The certified Clisters will welcome you with open threads !!

Some of this other stufff phew stinks. But I like watching it as it reflects so well on the candidates they defend.

GO ORLANDO MAGIC - Take game 4 !!

Patsi,
What is title of second Loretta Book.I haven't been reading as much since I got this pc.I didn't realize I was in the company of all this celebrity.Country music has always been my favorite starting with Kitty Wells.I used to sing a lot of her songs in the local bars.Never got paid just liked to sing.lost my ability to sing in my early 40's.I have a large country music collection but listen to the 50's music in car on xm radio.

back to politics...How can Obama think he can be prsident when he doesn't even know how many states there are unless he is also counting the muslim countries as states.
Ruth

"If I had anything of value to sell, I would do so to see Sen. Obama lose Oregon."

Aint going to happen.

I apologize to our host for the unnecessary use of profanity.

My comments were directed to Warren who thinks he is above the rules because he thinks he is a better person. He should not believe everything he thinks.

Warren,

Thanks as always.

Mortgages -- prime or subprime -- only emerged as a billion dollar investment instrument in the 90's. They were never designed as one. And their failure was predicted not just after their great ascendence post-9/11 but during their first significant rise as the internet bubble burst only to be replace with an even more disastrous fraud.

All the same... the international banks and brokerages made it their business to buy up as many as they could...

And Bush called it his "ownership society".

Ha.

"Do you not see how that might offend some of who had worked for over 4 decades to build this party? Especially given that many of the Trons were independents who never gave a flip for our party. Do you truly not "get" that?"

Patsi. I get it. But what other choice did the Obama campaign have if it wanted to win the nomination?

If they were going to beat the Clintons - Obama could not just spend his time making nice speeches. He had to fight back. And despite how personal you may have taken some of the attacks made by either Obama or his supporters - it could have been far worse.

Don't tell me you don't remember all the pundits calling him weak for not going after Clinton sooner or asking why he was not more negative (they would all repeat: "it works"). Debate after debate - they were like c'mon - we want some blood!!

And Obama has not made any attacks that were harsher than what has come out of the Clinton campaign.

(And finally - when you have millions of supporters - there are always going to be some "nuts"....)

9/11:

You are talking about structured finance. Which is not a bad thing in itself. Using these financial istruments is a way to spread risk and create more liquidity.

And it played a big role in allowing a lot of Americans - who can and do pay the bills - to get money to buy a home.

Yes - it was abused. Like everything that is "new" - there is an information advantage to insiders. Often, this is exploited by greed just like we saw with the tech boom, the S & L scandal, etc.

The key is too eliminate the fraud - without eliminating the good aspects of securitization.

"Do you not see how that might offend some of who had worked for over 4 decades to build this party? Especially given that many of the Trons were independents who never gave a flip for our party. Do you truly not "get" that?"

"Patsi. I get it. But what other choice did the Obama campaign have if it wanted to win the nomination?"

He could have compaigned on issues instead of sleazy personal attacks. Now he has to reap what he jhas sowed. You can agree to disagree on issues but not on the kind of personal attacks launched or encouraged by the Obama campaign.

He is left with half a party. That may be what they wanted but it will make winning harder in November.

Instead of being a slam dunk in November, he will be eaking out votes in the rust belt. McCain will walk all over him the Western states that could be considered swing states and Obama is not going carrying either of the Carolinas or Georgia no matter how many times you post the primary votes. Not going to happen.

just ran out to plant a few more tomatoes.My husband tills one row at a time so now I have to wait for last row.We plant 44 plants.
Ruth

nick,
You could have simply informed Shelia that she was mistaken and that you were not "n". Instead you called her a shit for brains. And now you're trying to rationalize your bad behavior.

Man-up. Tell Shelia you're sorry. We'll all respect you more for it.

Shelia, I stated my position on my problems with "NeoLIberals". I didn't single you out at all. I expressed what many have expressed here and I am sorry that your current response is the best you EVER had to offer.

You replied to my post yesterday by saying that I really would never had voted for Hillary which is bascially calling me a liar. Yes? Did I ever say that of you? And if you think my response to Anon was too much, I note that I have never seen you tell Anon to cut it with the Hitler crap because it is insulting to Jews. I guess you aren't concerned about the absurdity of Anon's claims or how Jews may feel.

I have asked you questions from the start, but I dod not remember any rational answers. You once suggested that "I believe". Now is that really a good answer in a secular discourse? You are an Obama cheer-leader. You never reply with facts or rational counters. You resorted in my case to call me a liar and that I'm a McCain man, a Republican. Only such vilification is your response and that suggests the next step, calling those who support McCain, racists. Is that the discourse you have in mind?

Rathjer than answer the logical questions such as whether you would ever have made the firends Obama did or even sat in his Church for very long, you deflect. This is an Obama tactic as though my question didn't count. I have asked you many stright forward questions like how a caucus is a popular vote, or what evidence is there that Obama is the greatest supporter of Israel? Never have you asnwered the questions and in that regard you even fall behind Brian. At least on occasion he has answered some questions. So has Warren and even Nash. But not you. You are a talking point cheerleader to the end. When you made assertions about how the military would vote and I gave you an officer's name who is serving now to turn the tide, you said you meant soldiers lower than officers. Officers don't count? Despite the hardship and mistakes, I don't want our troops to have died in vain which is exactly what would happen if the Left had their way.

So I was always civil otwards you. Not one curse or rude remark, but then you had to call me a liar and rationalize for yourself that only a person who was a closet conservative who would never vote Clinton, would post such pro-McCain reasoning and characterize Obama folk in the way I did. Good luck with that Shelia. You don't discouss, you evangelize and your savior is Obama. Well, I am not on trial here, he is. That is what an election is all about. His record, his friends, his advisors, his policies.

His he an ideologue. Well, when told the facts support the reality if you raise the capital gains tax you lower revenue, he said he still would raise it "out of fairness of principle". The same is true obviously of the corporate tax rate and talking to adversaries we have talked to for decades as the continue to seek WMD.

You don't want to debate. You want to cheerleader and since I have rained on your parade, I am a bad McCain loving fellow. Talking about anything Obama negative is like McCarthyism.

Sorry you feel that way Shelia, but let us at least be honest. You never answered my questions. You simply react to what you don't like and offer unfair characterizations. If that is more of what the Obama camp will offer then this will get really ugly.

nick:

I did not appreciate your tone. I think your attack on Sheila was unwarranted. And I think my post was appropriate given what I was responding to.

"He should not believe everything he thinks."

Hah! Are you suggesting I should believe what you think instead?

(And I do try to curse far less on this blog than I do in real life. But what can I say - my mother cursed like a truck driver - and she hates when I say that ; )

Tim Potato And Chris Mathews were the ones calling for Obama to attack Hillary.She only responded to attacks on her.And then only after the press kept asking over and over and over.The press has picked the candidates for both sides.And a lot of good candidates never had a chance.Media is now a conglomerate and has too much control over what we hear and see.What happened to the laws that prevented ownership of more than one media source by any one organization..This country has gone down since deregulation.It was supposed to give us better choice and cheaper prices but all I have seen is rising prices and poor quality.
Ruth

Craig,

Sorry for not answering your thread before.

Why hasn't Obama been thick-as-thieves campaigning in West Virginia? Logic probably. its a fact that WV is very much Clinton's. Senator Clinton is one part of a team that have served WV very well over the years, Or at least this is what I am assuming.

Since the West Virginians are very loyal and traditional people (like Pennsylvania) , its just logical for Obama to very gracefully leave the state to Senator Clinton in the Primaries and then build a relationship for the next few months...IF he gets the Nomination.

I here Obamais Blanketing the airwaves and so its probably a better way of introducing himself.

Also makes sense to concentrate on the western states too.

Maxtrue:

I think you should change your screen name to fillibuster. Or how bout just "buster"?

(I know - another example of the pot calling the kettle black ; )

Hah! Are you suggesting I should believe what you think instead?

No I'm stating you should not believe everything you think. You might consider often you are wrong

As for the profanity. Your host asked you not to at least you use the f word and all you can do is offer up excuses for why you will continue. You are snotty human being with no manners and enormous sense of entitlement (entirely undeserved based on your performance here.)

I agree with you Ruth about the media. That is why I am happy we have the internet.

I got an e-mail yesterday about Cindy McCain.Apparently she belongs to an organization and gives money for the removal of land mines.Would be a much better first lady than Michelle.
Ruth

Like Shelia, Warren, you never answer the questions. They were straight forward. Would you ever make the friends that Obama did. Do they reflect your judgment and principles? Can you show me where it is proven that Obama is the pro_israel supporter he claims?

I gave you numerous examples. Are terrorists cover under the GC? Where should they be kept so they can't terrorize? When given fair questions you deflect.

Are you in favor of decreasing missile defense or cutting military aid to Mexico and Columbia? By what means would you change affirmative action in the way Obama panders? How could a Constitutional scholar support a total gun ban as did Obama whose memo are written right next to his answer?

The government in Pakistan has taken no hard role against the terrorist. Why isn't Obama calling on Bush to strike?

You refuse to answer these questions, though on occasion you attempt to which is more than Shelia does. And what is your response to my reasonable observations regarding Ron Paul? Aren't you aware that they would scrap the very programs Obama seeks to enlarge? They would cut the very taxes Obama would seek to raise? And that evangelicals do not support the Wright notion that Jesus was a Black Palestinian.

You post enough, so please don't say a response would tax your fingers. You post more all day than I do in a few threads. Use some of that energy to answer the questions instead of being a rabid cheerleader.

Or is that what Obama's afffluent, intellectual white supporters really do, while us illiterate hard working ones can barely scratch out a rational sentence?

Don't be bitter, just answer the questions.

Warren,

Well-stated, nicely informed.

I disagree with you because just as the banks and brokerages are being bailed out by the government at our expense, they will dig deeper holes for the world as they have much, too much influence over both the legislative and executive branches.

The issue is one of a sort of regulation that has not been seen for decades.

The only thing relatively free about our market economy is that is how the institutions which run it (amok) get off -- free, free, free..

And my source on that? Just now on the phone, former SEC chair Arthur Levitt, Jr -- who served WJC, grew to loathe him and Congress and exited with the reputation as "The Investor's Champion" (as opposed to, say, Robert Rubin).

Favorite line of the day: "He should not believe everything he thinks."

painter, Cindy McCain probably owns the organization. she's so super-rich she won't even tell us what she's worth.

Max, I like your long posts. Don't change, stay the way you are. If Warren thinks they're long, he doesn't have to read them.

You are an Obama cheer-leader......(sheila says) Why Yes I am! And I am also a cheerleader for my Country too....make no mistake about me.

You never reply with facts or rational counters. ........

(Sheila says) Why MAX, for the last year I haven't countered or argued anything MUCH and never for you or anyone else who is looking for a fight instead of enaging in a conversation.

The reason is that this place was very passionate even before YOU came. So I just don't discuss Obama here anymore. You mistake me for someone else.

You resorted in my case to call me a liar and that I'm a McCain man, a Republican. .......

(Sheila Says) I have NEVER called you or anyone a liar here. Not in my DNA.

Only such vilification is your response and that suggests the next step, calling those who support McCain, racists. Is that the discourse you have in mind?..........

LOL I am the last person to call anyone a racist on this blog. So please don't inject this in my wiritings. How crazy to suggest this and out of any context.

As a matter of fact, I have seen so many posts calling others racist for just NOTHING....NADA....this is a very hateful epithet and you using on me just proves my point.

I will not respond to you until you can come down from that hateful place you are.

Good Luck

BTW, Anon-P has been from the first. We all tolerate each other here. Craig's promise of Freedom of Expression is extended to AP too. Anon-P has become a dear friend. I respect him.

I' answer half the questions and he can take the rest.

Would you ever make the friends that Obama did. NO

Do they reflect your judgment and principles? NO

Can you show me where it is proven that Obama is the pro_israel supporter he claims? NO

That was easy.

Warren
I don't mean to be rude but since I am new here are you one person or are you just a name that Obama supporters are using to make his case.The reason I ask is because whenever i check this site you have a comment on to answer everyone at any time.And I know that Obama people are tuned to every station at all times and they are at the ready to call in to refute or complain any time a comment is made in the media.I have heard mant times when acommentator says something they then say Obama's people have just called and want us to stop what we are saying.Although I don't like Obama you have agree they have a real tough organization that has probably been planning this for a mighty lonf time.I just think they chose the wrong person at the top.
Ruth

From TPM

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/05/ickes_on_conference_call.php

Somewhat tantalizingly, Hillary also claimed that there were back-channel talks of some kind going on between the two campaigns, possibly about how to maintain Democratic unity after the primary. Asked by a super-delegate whether there were discussions going on between the two camps about what would happen after the voting concluded, she said:

"There's a lot of communication between both of the campaigns all the time. I don't know how specific it is, but we have very open lines of communication...I know that both Senator Obama and I are committed, and the campaigns are as well, to making sure that when this is resolved" we will do everything we can to "unify the party." She didn't elaborate further.

Gosh Ruth, You give us too much credit.

I will speak for Warren. A very passionate and articulate Obama Supporter who We actually let do our arguing. He's very good!

And thank Warren. I appreciate your seeing me as I am and coming to my aid. ;0)

painter, Would that make him a spy or a double spy.
Or is this just an inside job.
Did they recruit him or did he just volunteer.
Could you be wrong and he's innocent.
We won't know til he answers, i guess.

Wow 9/11! My hero! I'm so glad to see that statement surface. So glad Senator Clinton and Senator Obama are conentrating on Unity too. Whew!

911 There's a lot of communication between both of the campaigns all the time. I don't know how specific it is, but we have very open lines of communication...I know that both Senator Obama and I are committed, and the campaigns are as well, to making sure that when this is resolved" we will do everything we can to "unify the party." She didn't elaborate further.

I've been worried lately that she is just staying in this playing out the votes so her supporters won't feel she was ousted
and be very rebellious. But that worries me because that
would mean she's stringing us along and not being honest,
so I choose not to believe it.
I don't want to think they're already in the process of becoming the same campaign, and using psychology
on us.
I want to think she's trying to win for us.

nogrudge,

speaking from a long trail of campaigning behind me....believe me. NO ONE would go through all of this in public just to be folding in private. She really IS trying to win.

And Obama really IS trying to give her a good race and its all for you guys.

Sheila, Thanks.
I was looking for some encouragment, anything.

your welcome and I understand. its been a long race and to think its not over yet.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/09/AR2008050902298.html
Quitters Never Win

later.

Well Shelia, your dear friend insults Jews and continues to provide extreme paranoia. I guess that answers whether you would have found any problems with the firends Obama made...LOL

You absolutley said that I would have never voted for Hillary which to all here denotes your calling me a liar in light of the fact I am a Hillary supporter. Does that escape you? If I said you would never really vote for Obama in the GE, wouldn't that mean I was saying you are a liar.

I didn't know that discussion in your eyes means not answering questions about Obama. Wow. I didn't realize that, and in the future I will not respond to your cheerleading because you do not wnant to be questioned about it. You want to cheerlead and let is just stand as that.

Okay, fair enough. I didn't understand your discursive position, but know I do. I took your refusal to ever answer my questions as an insult, but know I know better.

I never said you would call me a racist, byt merely suggested that if you could say I would vnever vote for Hillary despite my declarations, you might as easily say I am a racist. Of course I don't think you are a racist.

I guess the problem Shelia is that I state my positions which I know you disagree with, but because you don't want to engage me in a debate of facts, you are left to chracterize my remarks which I find cowardly. I understand now, why you just make snide remarks because you really don't want to get trapped in a battle of points and words. I see that it isn't cowardly, but rather your way to avid protracted fights.

So I will be nice and if you disagree with me, please don't impune my motives are suggest bad things about me, just accept that we as good people can disagree. It is you, not I who don't want to debate. So it is your burden to accpet my posts graciously while expressing that you disagree. And I will not challenge you because I repsect your right to stay out of the fire and frying pan. Okay? So let's just step back and agree to be friends.

I do think people's silence in regard to Anon is deplorable. Hitler gassed and killed millions. He invade his neighbors and sought to improsion the world in a madness based on white aryan supremacy. He tore up any vestiage of Constitutional Democracy and was a trulely sick individual who extreminated millions of my people, Russians, gypsies, gays, dissidents and handicapped. To compare this creature with Bush not just dmages the office of President, but insults the history of the world and makes us less discriminating in our understanding of poltics, policies and human pathology.

Everyone here in the name of civility and historical honesty should ask Anon to refrain from the constant extremism he displays when ever he is here. To tell me to lick the boots of my new fuerher makes me want to reach through the internet and choke him. Can you understand that Shelia? Isn't it time we return civility to the political process or do you accept Dexter's and Anon's comments. I spoke up for Warren on the last thread. Unlike Conyer's wife, acting like children will get us all nowhere.

h

Jesus Max can't you get your point across without typing a damn book chapter. What you have to say is just not that interesting.

Sorry for the rabid typos, but I was eating a hero, my apologies.

Everyone, stop... breathe and think! When we make our disagreements so personal we hurt not only ourselves and each other; we also hurt our chances to win in November. Yes we are upset. Obama people pissed at Clinton people; Clinton people pissed at Obama people. It hurts more for the Clintonians because it appears we aren't winning the nomination. Top it off, some Obama supporters are gleefully playing the "nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah" games we used to play in the playground around the time of Kindergarten. Some