Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Good morning, and here's to a big victory today in my neighbor-state, Kentucky!

Good Morning,

Patsi , ya beat me girl. Just remains to see how big a win Kentucky will be for Hillary. And how big Obama
Loss will be , which he thinks will be a huge win. Let's hope it comes to a tie.

Like Hillary said, he does not have the required number of delegate for the nomination. CNN said yesterday he needed over 100. Not likely to get that many today.. Does the man think arrogance is going to win him the nomination?

Julie

harbor -- I found your book and ordered a copy. Isn't having amazon great?

Good Morning-

I'm excited about the big Kentucky victory today and I'll also be watching Oregon closely--just heard on MoJo that it's a lot tighter than they expected. One poll has Obama up by only 4 points.

A chart of the college delegates done by Karl Rove, shows Hillary takes 5 more states than Obama and McCain beats Obama, also. I believe I saw this on No quarter or politico.

Of course McCain is drawing the Blue Collar vote, that Obama cannot seem to get, in polls done with the general election question.

Julie

Morning! Looking forward to election results today!

Craig,

Now that we’ve had our “Summer of love Day”, maybe we
can have a “Who’s the mole Day” (as in professional posters)??. And I mean this in a good way.

I’ve been thinking about how we listen to MSNBC and others on TV and radio everyday, bombarding us with slanted information that’s designed to influence how we think and to manipulate our decision making. The part that bothers me is there is usually no disclaimer, admitting they represent one side or the other. Influence peddling, in disguise, I realize is inevitable, but it still seems wrong to offer it under the guise of friendliness, honesty, sincerity and spontaneity.

In the blogosphere, propaganda is all the more difficult to detect. This, for me, is partly because I am new at this. There’s obviously nothing that can or should be done to stop this, but it can be fun to try to figure out who these interlopers are.

From what I gather, many of us agree at this point that they’re here. And as has been pointed out recently, they’ve probably been at this site for a while (Craig's a popular guy!)

I hope Craig, you don’t consider this kind of talk “trouble making” or inflammatory on my part. To me it’s just fun. And I also strongly believe complete “awareness” is important. and beneficial.

Thanks for hearing me out. Meg

Hi all my Hill-buddies,

I'm excited to finally be able to see Hillary again tomorrow, since the press
has pretty much blacked out any decent coverage of her.

I'm looking forward to one of Hillary's rousing speeches after her Kentucky
win.

I'm already bracing myself for the 24/7 media Obama-Oregon-win-spin downplaying Hillary's victory and announcing Obama is the Dem nominee.

Of course, MSNBC and CNN will portray Hillary's probable double digit win in Kentucky as really a loss because "Hillary can't win. . ." Blah, blah.

Looks like the Hillary folks are up early and feisty today.

As soon as the Obama posse joins the party, our excitement will
be deflated somewhat. I won't mention any names.

Does the man think arrogance is going to win him the nomination? Posted by: Julie Young 73

Julie, it's worked so far.

I used to feel, before I found this site, that I was the only one that noticed how arrogant he is. Then he opened his mouth in San Francisco and made it obvious to everyone.

Patsi & Prof marcia

Is it still cold in Ky/Tn? I turned on tv late afternoon yesterday and CNN reporter was bundled up to her chin like it was really cold. Ks now getting to 80's during day. Almost daybreak here and must water flowers and start my painting outside while cool. Have great day.

Julie

As soon as the Obama posse joins the party, our excitement willbe deflated somewhat. Posted by: prof marcia

Marcia, deflated somewhat?
I'll crash to the ground for the day. But it will be nice to see Hillary's win in beautiful Kentucky today (at least I'm told it's beautiful). And I'm still hoping for an upset in Oregon. That's the only thing that will get the media's attention.

Meg,

I just do not get it that he can announce himself the assumed nominee when he does not have the required # of delegates, according to CNN.. And if they allow next week, MI and Fla, the number will go probably to 2210 instead of 2026. In that case, neither one can come up to 2210.. there were only couple hundred delegates left couple of weeks ago.
Does he want it bad enough to just bully her out of the way and try to take the lead? I just do not see it.

julie

Of course, MSNBC and CNN will portray Hillary's probable double digit win in Kentucky as really a loss because "Hillary can't win. . ." Blah, blah. Posted by: prof marcia

Isn't it unbelievable, they can't allow us to enjoy her wins without telling us how meaningless and hopeless it is.
I can hardly turn on the tv anymore. It's too depressing.

Does he want it bad enough to just bully her out of the way and try to take the lead? Posted by: Julie Young 73

Julie, i read yesterday that he will temper down that nominee speech a little (on Politico, I think). But yes, he and his campaign are bullies.

I can't help but think that Howard Dean and MANY others are all in on this. It's all been well planned and now they're in such a hurry to finish things up, that they don't seem to be able to control themselves.

But our girl just keeps hangin' in there. Hillary is my hero.

Julie -- It's been beautiful here in Tennessee lately. Sounds like Kansas is having a good spring as well! You are probably in the eastern part....where it's a lot MORE beautiful than my hometown in the Southwest corner! Wind and tumbleweeds!

"What a loser she is. "

You'd cut off a badly tattooed leg to be such a "loser."

Julie,

Just wanted to let you know, I don't live in KY or TN. I live in California which
has been 95 all week, like summer. But, my heart will be in Ky tomorrow.

Meg,
Yes. It is unbelievable that the media ruins any celebration Hillary supporters
can have by announcing how unimportant and HOLLOW each Hill victory is.

One thing I have learned from this primary season is how wretched the media
is in this country. It's scary to find out how completely false so much of the
news we receive is. I used to think I could trust CNN or MSNBC but now I know I cannot. I feel beyond disillusioned.

One thing I have learned from this primary season is how wretched the media is in this country. It's scary to find out how completely false so much of the news we receive is. I used to think I could trust CNN or MSNBC but now I know I cannot. I feel beyond disillusioned." Posted by: prof marcia

Marcia, you just articulated exactly how I feel. thanks
This site is so therapeutic.

Matter of fact, she may be a loser to you, but to most of us she has the guts to make her a true winner when the history of this highly manipulated travesty is sorted out.

Loser, my butt. Posted by: Flatus

Flatus, you just articulated exactly how I feel too.
You guys are my rock. thank you

So , the San Antonio Spurs advanced last night? To give you an idea of how much I hate the Spurs , I'd rather watch Obama win the 2008 Presidential election than watch the Spurs win another NBA title. Go Lakers! Go Pistons! Go Red Wings!

I'm not much for conspiracy theories in the usual sense of some malevolent eventual outcome planned by some cabal, but the Chicago Tribune article Craig posted has a key line that seems applicable about Ayers, and that is the old "It's not what you know but who you know". This spoiled, violent, and dangerous scion of a prominant family gets his crimes sort of forgiven in exchange for coming back into the philanthropic family mold.

The average person without those connections would probably still be rotting in a jail cell. When you think of our political elite such as the Kennedy and Bush families with their various crimes, misadventures, and pecadillos, many of which we tend to find humorous, this ruling class becomes insideous.

It seems that Sen. Obama has learned the lesson well about who needs to have their shoulders rubbed in exchange for influence. Certainly we know that the Clintons have had their share of alliances with movers and shakers.

That means the big question becomes, "Whose motives do you trust most?" How much is being done for personal gain, power and influence, and how much is being done to accomplish desired goals within the limits of not violating the strangle hold of those who hold this ultimate power?

I don't think it's cool to burn the flag. Of course , I don't think I should have to show my ID when buying cold medicine , either. Damn meth labs!

Sulu from Star Trek is getting married. I guess California is the place to be now.

Getting back to Craig's subject this morning-Bill Ayers-it will be interesting to see how the media plays this. As much as they're in the tank for Obama, they love John McCain. I think we'll be hearing a lot more about Mr. Ayers. Perception is everything in politics and I think this will hurt Obama in mainstream America.

Meg, he DID do a nice job on that and so gracefully, too.

flatus,

Grace is based in sincerity.

the most important thing in show business is sincerity----once you can fake that you got it made.

---george burns

Getting back to Craig's subject this morning-Bill Ayers-it will be interesting to see how the media plays this. As much as they're in the tank for Obama, they love John McCain. I think we'll be hearing a lot more about Mr. Ayers. Posted by: ubns

I wouldn't count on that. Someone on this blog the other day said that Hannity informed listeners on his radio show that MSNBC and CNN and others had decided jointly not to report much on Rev. Jeremiah Wright anymore. And I won't be surprised if that spills over onto Ayers. I've given up on the media.

Happy Primary Day to everybody in OR & KY!
Let's see, which state will MSNBC cover ad naseum?

The media will try to ignore/suppress negative stories about BO, but the GOP will, sadly prevail. Silly, DNC.

"If you look for the bad in people expecting to find it , you surely will." - Abraham Lincoln

blueINdallas

It must absolutely kill them not being able to do exit interviews in Oregon. Perhaps they'll chat-up the letter carriers.

Kentucky? Expect them there next May for the mint juleps.

a lobbyist by any other name

Contributions made by the various industry sectors tell the real story in a presidential race. And Opensecrets.org shows that Obama is picking up gobs of money put on the table by these special interests—including those involved in health care, which will surely have a lot riding on the outcome of the election and will expect to be heard after the election is over.
http://www.cjr.org/campaign_desk/obamas_lobbyist_line.php

Rove and Rush don't have to create havoc within the Dem Party,
Obama and his gang: Darth Axelrod, Chris Matthews, Keith Overbite, Howard
Dean, most of the mainstream media and Washington Insiders in the Dem Party, as well as the NY Times journal tarts like Maureen Dowd did it for them.

that obama sure is arrogant.

i still can't get over the fact that, in the beginning, he thought he was the inevitable candidate and didn't even have a post-super tuesday plan. worse yet, he wasted all his money. i guess he thought it was his "turn" or something. what an arrogant dope.

oh wait....sorry, that was hillary.

nevermind.

LOVE Geraldine Ferrarro

She just quoted Michelle Obama .When asked if she would vote for Obama,She said,"I don't know,I'll have to think about that."
Good for her!

Ruth

I hope everyone is wearing blue Jeans today. It is the anniversary of the day the original patent was awarded to Levi and Strauss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkN3bSoLYhc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iYpboTjtoQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O80b002XT0&feature=related

Rove and Rush don't have to create havoc within the Dem Party, Posted by: prof marcia

Actually, I never thought I'd ever listen to Rove, but he's been so analytical in discussing Hillary's campaign, that I now do listen. He's a brilliant strategist and seems so unemotional. So when he talks it's more like a computer analyzing the facts than an emotional human being, such as I, getting distracted by my feelings.

Another person I thought I'd never listen to is Pat Buchannon. But now he's about the only one on MSNBC I can listen to with an open mind, unless Craig is on there.

I don't see how MSNBC gets away with one solid campaign commercial for Obama. It is getting worse as the days go by. It is infuriating how the media has manipulated this whole election process. I hope Oregon goes for Hillary today, actually. I am hearing everything from 20 to 4 point lead by O.

"I have a different view of leadership. A leadership is someone who brings people together." - George W. Bush

In response to the sentiment expressed this am, here
is today's NYT full page ad "Not So Fast", sponsored by WomenCount PAC.

"Hillary's voice is OUR voice, and she's speaking for all of us."

http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/an-ad-opportunity-from-womencount-pac/

I have no idea what drives Hillary to remain so positive in the face of the media determination to destroy her candidacy, but , as long as Hillary continues to fight on for what she believes in, and many of us here also believe, that she is the best person to become President, I for one will continue to support her.

As the ad states,

"We want Hllary to stay in this reace until every vote is cast, every vote is counted., and we know that our voice are heard."

We're sitting here in the hotel room watching the 9-pm news. They are showing the most heart-breaking pictures of the human torment in China.

For comic relief, I'm listening to Imus over WABCradio.com

Woke at 5:30 this morning, looked out the window and saw what appeared to be flames a few blocks away. Within minutes they were leaping 30 to 40 feet in the air.

The area was combination residential commercial with a number of high-rise apartments and very high density very old single story village style buildings built shortly after the war.

A few minutes after I started watching, a convoy of ten fire apparatus raced down the street in front of the hotel and vanished around the corner to the area of the fire. As this was happening, pole transformers were exploding and smoke was engulfing the apartments abutting the fire area.

Thankfully, within half an hour, all the smoke was gone. We have no idea if there were casualties. But, this we do know, a significant tragedy was avoided by the apparent competence of the Seoul fire fighters.

I'm expecting Pat Buchanan to disappear from MSNBC any time now. He is the only reasonable voice on there.

Carville on Imus now

Meg,

I feel exactly the same as you do about Karl Rove and Pat Buchanan. As a lifelong Democrat, I never would have imagined myself listening to either of these men, but they both are clever and seem surprisingly like true political analysists, certainly not surrogates for Obama. I find myself tuning into Rove and Buchanan and tuning out the other pundits. (except Craig)

I've been desperate to hear any somewhat unbiased commentary
this political season. That it seems to be coming only from Republicans
is shocking to me. I think that even Bill O'Rielly has been kinder to Hillary
Clinton than any of the so-called liberal commentators on CNN and MSNBC. What does that tell you?

Obama said his relationship with Ayers showed he can get along with everyone and compared that relationship to his relationship to Senator Tom Coburn.

I wonder how Coburn feels about being considered the rightwing equivilent of Ayers.

This morning's blog started out so nice until Obama's shill showed up early to destroy the tranquility here.

Marcia,9/11,Meg,Julie,Patsi, love reading your posts.

Ruth

Obama campaigned in Florida and said h would seat the delegation but when he lost Florida he changed his mind.

talk about a hypocrite. Tried to pretend he didn't know he was breaking the rules during the campaign appearance he made in Sept.

Ignorance of the rules is not an excuse

If Barack Obama had given a speech on bowling, it might well have been brilliant and inspiring. But instead he actually tried bowling and threw a gutter ball. The contrast between talking and doing could not have been better illustrated." from a Real Clear Politics submitted article.

I copied this, this morning, but forgot to credit the exact article it was from, but it was from their yesterday submitted columns. I really thought it says a lot, and wanted to post it here.

Not Bush

Do you have citations for your first two paragraphs??

Sen. Hillary Clinton, New Hampshire Public Radio, Thursday, October 11, 2007:

NHPR's Laura Knoy: "So, if you value the DNC calendar, why not just pull out of Michigan? Why not just say, Hey Michigan, I'm off the ballot?"

" I personally did not think it made any difference, whether or not my name was on the ballot, you know, it's clear, this election they are having is not going to count for anything"

Coreen,

Thanks for the link.. on Hillary supporters

For the GE, this kind of information is very helpful for those of us organizing against Obama in our respective geographic areas. As we develop contacts in various regions of the country.. it will eventually lead to a national effort.. we are lobbying some national organizations now.

Geraldine Ferraro's shot across the bow is just the beginning

Craig,

The DNC are not reading the 'TEALEAVES'. Hillary Democrates all over this country, not just Women but men like me and my whole family will NOT NOT NOT NOT vote for OBama if Hillary is not on the ticket, either on top or as VP. Hillary beats Mccain, Mccain beats Obama.

Mel7

ADVERTISEMENT

By WILLIAM MARCH and ELAINE SILVESTRINI The Tampa Tribune

Published: September 30, 2007

Fundraising Totals | Primary States | Where They Stand

TAMPA - Barack Obama hinted during a Tampa fundraiser Sunday that if he's the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, he'll seat a Florida delegation at the party's national convention, despite national party sanctions prohibiting it.

Obama also appeared to violate a pledge he and the other leading candidates took by holding a brief news conference outside the fundraiser. That was less than a day after the pledge took effect Saturday, and Obama is the first Democratic presidential candidate to visit Florida since then.
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking

Ayers was discussed on Hannity and Colmes last night: Look for this in the link:

Questionable Connections
Victims of Bill Ayers group speak out

http://www.foxnews.com/hannityandcolmes/index.html#

So Who Is This Bill Ayers??

"Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn (now married to Ayers) were two of the most infamous domestic terrorists ever to be allowed to continue to walk the earth in America, thanks to a screw up in the surveillance. But that didn’t stop Ayers from bragging on what he did.

“i don’t regret setting bombs. I feel we didn’t do enough”
–Bill Ayers, September 11, 2001

... a violent U.S Radical Left group. They called themselves a revolutionary organization whose purpose was to carry out a series of attacks to overthrow of the Government of the United States."

See link for long list of bombings:

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/04/17/so-who-is-this-bill-ayers/

ProfM, Let's be clear about Rove - he is a brilliant political strategist who knows no bounds of decency. I suspect that his next career includes being an analyst on Fox. I think it is important to understand that while his analysis may be correct WRT the dem race, the man has few redeeming qualities.

nannym, what Hillary agreed to, as you said, was not to campaign in FL. She acknowledged early on that the FL & MI delgates would not count and stated that the first in the nation status for IA & NH was an important concept in the Dem nomination process (I happen to disagree with that position strongly). She has since come to believe that the 2.4 million votes in FL & MI should count (as do I). She has changed her position on the issue (rightly so IMHO). And it would benefit her if that position were adopted, both WRT delegate count and popular vote )although I don't understand the argument that the votes of the people who went to the polls shouldn't count - regardless of whether delegates are awarded). That is what has been contorted to an about face and "fuck the rules" argument by the O-bots. Is it a change in position? Sure. Is it the correct position to take? I think so. Apparently the O-bots place a higher premium on consistency than on doing the right thing, if that involves changing one's position. Sounds like a great quality to endorse, doesn't it - it's the one that Dumya has governed with.

The voters of Florida voted, over a million voters came out to the polls. I don't believe anybody has the authority to keep these votes from counting.

I agree about Buchanan and Rove .Who ever thought we would be calling them the one's with the voice of reason.But Hillary is being attacked because she qouted his electoral map,which showed she would win the most states in the general.

I never thought I would be watching the Fov network either.But it is impossible to watch CNN or MSNBC.Turned on Imus for a few minutes earlier but his show was so silly i had to turn it off.He added two AA 's to his show and gave them parts that are ridiculous.
Reading from scripts is not the best use of these two talented people.If he wants to make up for his racist remarks,he should let them participate more in the actual conversation of the show.
The way he showcases them is,to me, very demeaning.
Ruth

Sen. Hillary Clinton, New Hampshire Public Radio, Thursday, October 11, 2007:

NHPR's Laura Knoy: "So, if you value the DNC calendar, why not just pull out of Michigan? Why not just say, Hey Michigan, I'm off the ballot?"

" I personally did not think it made any difference, whether or not my name was on the ballot, you know, it's clear, this election they are having is not going to count for anything"
Posted by: Say one thing when you want NH's support | May 20, 2008 8:53

Dear Say one thing:

Let's show the entire quote from that interview, shall we? As a reminder, prior to this quote, Hillary reinforced the difficult position the people of Michigan are in ("they are flat on their backs") and then she went on to say this:

"It's clear this election they're having is not going to count for anything but I just personally didn't want to set up a situation where the Republicans are going to be campaigning between now and whenever and then after the nomination you know we have to go in and repair the damage to be ready to win Michigan in November 2008. I'm not going to campaign there before the you know deadlines and the February 5th window. I'm not going to spend any money there. But I did not believe that it was fair to just say "Goodbye Michigan" and not take into account the fact that we're going to have to win Michigan if we're going to be in the White House in January of 2009."

Thanks for bringing this subject up again "Say one thing." It just proves how Hillary understands what it takes to win the White House in November!

Pulling quotes out of context: The New Politics of Hope and Change.

Bill Ayers the unindicted McVeigh

NoBush, thanks for the Tampa Trib article.

The big paragraph was this one:

"The DNC has threatened to refuse to seat a Florida convention delegation because of the too-early primary, which the Florida Legislature decided on last spring. But if a candidate amasses enough delegates before the primary to ensure the nomination, that candidate would take control of the convention, including the power to seat a delegation."

That is apparently why Obama "hinted" that he would seat the delegation. But there is no quote to that effect--perhaps because it was made inside the fundraiser and was off the record.

No one has the right to sign away votes -- not Obama, not Hillary, not the DNC, not Howard Dean, nobody can do that.

Ruth......you must have heard only one part of the show.......Tony Powell and Ms Foster chime in at will all thru the show plus their scripted bits.....as much as do bernie, charles, and lou.....

OK, I read all sorts of stuff at NYT, but this one about his month's PPI caught my eye.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/21/business/21econ.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1211289106-8QeC3B1uAzq7JJFUWCsljQ

Read the 3rd paragraph.

Oh, and don't worry, outside food and gasoline, prices, after being adjusted according to our government - to whom black is certainly whaite, and vice versa - are only rising moderately. Luckily your home (which you are pretty unlikely to buy again) is losing value, which of course is one of the factors that is helping "moderate" inflation. You might say the government is relieved that stuff you don't buy as much isn't rising as much as stuff you have to buy. All is well.

Will someone please explain to me why CNN and John King and his fancy map will not show us what could happen if FL and MI are put back in play. They say it would change the math but it would be interesting to see what it does but they refuse to show it.

When they signed the pledge to ignore the votes from Michigan if they moved up there elections,nothing was said about counting them if they held them later.When new elections were set up Obama was the one who stopped new elections.
What I don't understand is,why does he have the right to decide whether or not these elections could be held.He is not the nominee or the leader of the democratic party.The rules committee should be the ones to make this decision.
And it is political suicide for the party to ignore the voters of Florida and Michigan.
Count these states or revote!

Ruth

On Imus this morning I heard that Obama has a 4 pt lead in Oregon. That falls within the margin of error. i did not hear what the Undecided amount was? Did anybody hear what that is.

Um, Ally- whether you include your quote or the whole interview- it does not change the point that Hillary said that the votes in the election would not count for anything- all of her representatives stated this too on the campaign's behalf-

Say what you will- but the quote I used was not pulled out of context as you claim. She clearly says she wanted her name on the ballot- period. She clearly says she was not going to spend money, and that the votes would not matter- her position is one more of symbolism.

Before you disparage me, I did not speak ill of HRC, and if she is the candidate in Nov, I will work hard for her candidacy. I agree with others who mentioned her war vote as a big reason to not support her. Had she voted against the resolution- I would have been very likely to be on board for her- in fact - I can say I would have.

Despite some people (especially here) saying that "all the Obama people" are a certain way, or all the Clinton people are another, I do not believe it is that simple. Several here constantly tease the other side and some fall for it consistently.

There are few difference between =Clinton and Obama on policy- the passion and the sadness, is comes from this historic election that a black man and a woman are competing for a very favorable election for dems. The prize is big this year.

Craig- here is to a little down the road when all are (or almost all) are on the same side again- at least even if that side is cheerful discourse.

Perception is not always the truth.

According to the Gallup poll during the 2004 campaign people thought Kerry did not deserve his medals

But that wasn't true either.

Patsi...You'll have to let me know what you think, but be gentle.... It's partially set in Nashville, and I was writing off research from one visit. Not to mention that you know country music far better than I ever will, and my hero is based on country musicians. Hope you enjoy it!

And, yes, sites like Amazon and half.com are fabulous! You can find almost anything there! Usually for a great bargain!

Campaign promises.

They're made with the facts as they understood at one particular point in time. And they are heard by ears that listen for what they want to hear.

If the facts change, does that make the promise moot? If the facts change, is it a broken promise, a lie, to act on matters in light of the changed factual base?

And, because we have a representative government, we choose people who will best act in ways that we would act.

But, it's unrealistic to expect them to always act exactly as we would. After all, there many constituents all with the same expectations of faithful representation.

Yes Craig, Obama is going to have a hard time with Ayers. His dismissive remarks to Hillary might work during the media biased primary, but they will not fly for the GE. Didn't Ayer's father get Obama started with a $50,000,000 grant? I don’t see that fact mentioned in your Ayer links. And the connection to the Tribune is clear. The Tribune has featured Ayers as a writer on several occasions and has yet to retract the falsehoods in a story they ran claiming the Weathermen NEVER hurt or killed anybody.

While Obama was planning his political trajectory with Rezko, Ayers and Khalidi while a member of Trinity, Hillary was in Bosnia visiting the troops she had advocated protect Muslims against the Serbs.

Seems like a fine contrast. Obama working with a spokesperson for the PLO, the infamous Rezko who was receiving funding from a Saddam loyalist Auchi and a 60s radical terrorist bomber v Hillary who as first lady was visiting our troops in their mission even Bernstein noted was strongly pushed by Hillary Clinton.

And in the face of these facts, Obama gives a dismissive answer implying Ayers wasn't really his friend and that this "distraction" was designed to hurt Americans in derailing their desire to elect BO as President so their dreams and hopes of change risked remaining unaccomplished. Yes, this is the sub text. I "hope" that the media will "change" its behavior and finally vet the real history and record of Obama's rise to the doorsteps of the WH BEFORE we all must witness what Barak will do once in power.
The GOP ought to be making a mini film about the life and times of BO and contrast that with McCain. The contrast will speak for itself. Meanwhile the Democrats plan just to morph McCain and Bush’s face back and forth hoping such infantile identity politics can fool all those Independents, Women and Reagan Democrats they will need to win.

Rezdog......thanks for the explanation..........makes sense now......lol

Saturday, February 16, 2008
Obama's Bill Ayers problem
"Memory is a motherf*cker."

That's the opening line of Bill Ayers' 2001 book, Fugitive Days, about his execrable days as a Weather Underground terrorist. Now a (gasp!) tenured education professor at the University of Illinois-Chicago, he's a campaign issue for Barack Obama.

Ayers, along with his fellow former Weather Underground terrorist wife, Bernardine Dohrn, are among the two most despicable people in living in America. And Obama served on a board with him. That will play well in rural Ohio--for John McCain.

While the Arizona senator was being tortured by his North Vietnamese captors, Ayers was openly cheering for a Communist victory over our troops.

In 1969, four years before McCain was set free by the NVA, Ayers and the Weather Underground brought the terroristic "Days of Rage" to Chicago.

Three years before McCain's release from captivity, future education professor Ayers exclaimed, "Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, kill your parents, that's where it's really at."

One year before McCain achieved freedom, Ayers participated in a bombing of the Pentaton. Of that day, Ayers wrote:

Everything was absolutely ideal on the day I bombed the Pentagon.

The sky was blue. The birds were singing. And the bastards were finally going to get what was coming to them.
http://marathonpundit.blogspot.com/2008/02/obamas-bill-ayers-problem.html

If I were an Obama supporter, I wouldn't be talking about flags.

A law lets the courts decide whether flag burning is constitutional - an amendment takes the issue out of the hands of the court.

Pogo-

Agreed that one can change their mind if they have more info and reconsider their position. But in the case of the MI votes- Hillary changed her mind because she thought the election would be a cake walk- her campaign never for the life of them thought that she would be duking it out with BO into June.

I had a hard time with Kerry for how he tried to twist out of his Iraq vote. When the senate was voting on the resolution- I was mostly awaiting for Kerry's position-and he chose to give Bush authority.

..................................................................................
And, by the way, what Hillary did is just what she considered to be the most opportune thing with her to win the election. I don't fault her for it- but "it is what it is"- She has not said - (and point it out to me if she has- I may be wrong) that she changed her mind about Michigan and why she has- I have just hear her ignore her earlier stance.

It is interesting to look at who is where now- and look at who supported which candidate- and to look at where everyone was back in Nov. 2007- (even a prominent Paul supporter among us)

The votes will have to be counted. I refuse to believe that I cast a vote and it doesn't count because somebody signed a pledge not to count it. At first I was of the opinion that since it was agreed upon to punish Florida, well, then the agreement has to be honored. Then I thought, punish Florida? Who has the right to make such an agreement? I hear that it won't make any difference, that the nomination will go to Obama no matter what. If that is true, then what is the big deal. Humor us. Count the votes.

(Susan Rice is getting a little testy.)

Dohrn, however, was jailed for less than a year for refusing to testify before a grand jury investigating other Weather Underground members’ robbery of a Brinks truck, in which a guard and two New York State Troopers were killed.

“I don't regret setting bombs; I feel we didn't do enough,” Ayers told the New York Times in 2001.

And their rehabilitation in establishment circles, even in Hyde Park, has its limits.

Though he is a respected figure in liberal educational circles, Ayers wrote recently about how in 2006 he was informed he was persona non grata at a progressive educators’ conference in the summer of 2006.
“We cannot risk a simplistic and dubious association between progressive education and the violent aspects of your past,” he quoted the conference organizers, whom he described as friends, as writing to him.

But the couple has been embraced, by and large, in the liberal circles dominating Hyde Park politics.

“Bill Ayers is one of my heroes in life,” said Sam Ackerman, a longtime local activist. “I knew Tony Rezko, and he ain’t no Rezko.”

But others in Hyde Park, whose intellectual and political life revolves around the University of Chicago, view the couple with ambivalence.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8630.html

Vadaryl
Think there are 8% undecided and another 5% refused
Ruth

Excuse me, but what a bunch of crap.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/20/business/20housing.html?hp

We can't afford the House bill - that over the next 5 F*CKING YEARS costs what just over one WEEK in Iraq costs? And I thought Chris Dodd would have made a good choice for president. Not with those priorities.

Say one thing when you want NH's support: Your blog name IN AND OF ITSELF IS DISPARAGING TO HRC. Give me a break.

Her interview made it clear that the people of Michigan were in a difficult position and telling all of those voters to FO was a terrible mistake when it comes to the general election. She left her name on the ballot as a show of support to the Michigan voters.

Through surrogates, Obama ran a strong campaign for his supporters to vote uncommitted in the election so that he may ultimately receive those votes.

Ever heard of John and Monica Conyers? Perhaps you've seen that classy little show she put on at a Detroit City Council meeting that floated around on YouTube? Anyhoo, this is the text from a radio ad that ran throughout Michigan:

MALE: THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IS CONFUSING. I WANT TO VOTE FOR BARACK OBAMA BUT OBAMA’S NAME IS NOT ON THE BALLOT.

FEMALE: THERE IS NO ONE ON THAT BALLOT I WANT TO BE PRESIDENT.

MALE: WELL, THESE FOLKS CAN HELP US. EXCUSE ME, CONGRESSMAN CONYERS AND COUNCILWOMAN CONYERS, WE NEED YOUR HELP.

FEMALE: HOW CAN WE VOTE FOR OBAMA ON TUESDAY?

Rep. Conyers: YOU CAN’T. YOU CANNOT EVEN WRITE IN OBAMA’S NAME. IF YOU DO YOUR VOTE WILL NOT COUNT BECAUSE OBAMA’S CAMPAIGN CHOSE NOT TO PLACE HIS NAME ON THE MICHIGAN BALLOT SO AS NOT TO VIOLATE NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY RULES. BUT YOU CAN VOTE UNCOMMITTED

Councilwoman Conyers: IF AT LEAST 15% OF THE PEOPLE VOTE UNCOMMITTED, THE STATE DEMOCRATIC PARTY MUST SEND THAT PERCENTAGE OF DELEGATES TO THE NATIONAL CONVENTION UNCOMMITTED.

Rep. Conyers: MY WIFE AND I ARE VOTING UNCOMMITTED. WE WILL WORK WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY TO MAKE SURE THAT UNCOMMITTED DELEGATES GO TO THAT CONVENTION TRULY UNCOMMITTED SO THAT OBAMA CAN COMPETE FOR THEIR VOTE.

MALE: THANK YOU CONGRESSMAN CONYERS AND COUNCILWOMAN CONYERS. I WILL JOIN YOU AND VOTE UNCOMMITTED ON TUESDAY.

FEMALE: ME TOO - AT LEAST MY VOTE WON’T BE WASTED

Councilwoman Conyers: THIS TRUTH IN POLITICS MESSAGE WAS PAID FOR BY FRIENDS OF MONICA CONYERS [end}]

This ad courtesy of the Washington Post:
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/01/09/voters_face_confusion_in_michi.html

What survey was Imus referring to this morning.

Humor us. Count the votes" Posted by: liz | May 20, 2008 9:34

Liz, Yes we can.

Obama doesn't have any "terrorist ties". He sat on a board with a guy who got in trouble when Obama was eight years old, but who is now a professor in Chicago who is active in the Democratic Party and who happens to have a home approximately in the neighborhood where Obama lives. Obama is not close to Mr. Ayers, but did eat once at his house when invited as a young state senator to a Democratic Party event there. Period. There is no relationship. If you want to talk about relationships, let's talk about all the lobbyists in John McCain's campaign, some of whom work for some very nasty foreign dictators---at the same time they're working of McCain. They even made lobbying calls from McCain's Straight Talk Express bus. You know the nasty little Junta in Myanmar who won't allow aid for their people after the cyclone? Clients of John McCain's top aides. I'd say that puts McCain closer to some very unpleasant associations then just serving on a board with a guy. Also, Ayers turned himself in but was never convicted of anything due to police corruption. Ayers never killed anyone or helped kill anyone. Can McCain's Junta association say the same?

Survey has Obama up by over 13 pts in Oregon. But Suffolk has it close by 4. That's a big spread. The two surveys are 5 pts off in KY, both saying it will be a blowout it KY.

I predict that before the GE is over, Susan Rice will be out for the litany of remarks she has made over the last several months. There will come a time that even Obama will have to give her the boot. That will leave Obama with only Skeletor McPeak and Zbig....LOL

She seems the Lefty doppelganger of Condi Rice..

Max, try googling Thomas Ayers, Annenberg, and Obama. There's info out there - I don't think it's damaging to Obama, but there is information that suggests that Obama's ties to William Ayers are closer and extend over a longer period than Obama acknowledged. I'll let you browse and come to your own conclusions.

Weather Underground Audio Tapes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpDUU3Z7dm4

Well Hannity will not let the Ayers story drop. If he keeps digging he will come up with something.

McCain criticizes Obama's relationship with William Ayers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH4DXjxPb2k&feature=related

In any case, the election was held in accordance with Florida law and the votes must count. Now whether the DNC chooses to seat their delegation, that's an entirely different matter.

.....

I don't understand all the rules of the DNC. How is it they get to choose to seat delegates, or not? There is something about this that does not seem right to me. I say if they don't seat the Florida delegates, I'm going to be an ex-democrat.

Fox News: Weatherman Bill Ayers Was Obama's "Mentor"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV_h-XwchkY&feature=related

"Several here constantly tease the other side "

"Tease???"

"Tease???"

ROFL.

If you're talking about Bri-Bri and Bye-Bye, the Toxic Twins, they do a bit more than "tease."

Going to download foxfire know to see if it will help with this site. I will check back later. I love this site.I get a lot of information from the posters and the links you all give. Especially helpful since I don't watch very much MSM anymore.
Ruth

harbor -- I'm excited that part of the book is in Nashville -- that will be fun. Can't wait to get my copy. I always had a little pipe dream about writing a gothic novel, but never have actually sat down and tried. The one my sister and I did fell into the mystery/horror genre.

patsi,

Both Bri-Bri and Bye-Bye have one basic utterance:

"Hello!", they lied.

Obama said he didn't know how he would have voted if he had been in the Senate at the time of the vote

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2007/11/obama-speak.html

and anpther thing - I have not seen any such quote from Hillary about having changed her position on MI. But then again, it is pretty apparent isn't it? Pardon me for saying it, but that's silly shit. Her changed position on MI clearly indicates that she has changed her mind and doesn't believe she was right in the beginning, doesn't it? We've heard it before, and we'll hear it again. She doesn't utter the words that her opponents deem are the threshold for contrition, so she isn't contrite. She doesn't deem to explain her apparent change, so what - I don't get the significance. I haven't heard Obama say he's sorry that he got in bed with Rezko to buy his house and extra land - he just said it was boneheaded. To me, that's the same thing. He hasn't said he's sorry he wouldn't wear the flag pin, but now he says he's wearing it because his supporters want him to. Never said he was sorry he wouldn't wear it before, but wears it now. Good enough for me. The contrition is apparent in the act. He hasn't said he's sorry for sitting on a board with Ayers and funding his pet projects (which were worthy of funding btw) or attending a fundraiser for himself at Ayers' house, or Rezko's for that matter. He returned the Rezko money - in stages as the criticism grew - is that enough? You make the call for yourself. As for Ayers, that's gonna haunt him.

And I note that you seem to know the inner workings of the mind of Clinton and her campaign. Dangerous stuff. I don't pretend to know why Obama makes the moves he makes - I content myself with recognizing them and drawing my own conclusions about his possible motives. Only he knows what his true motives were.

Ayers & Obama?

This is just swiftboating. The Republican slime machine produces the message and the MSM mindlessly repeats it.

No one believes this crap anymore.

Obama's terrorist connections - William Ayers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxoiZdBSi-g&feature=related

If Obama is the great uniter and opposed to the war
why are we still there. Couldn't he get his friend Tom Coburn to support ending the war

He has done nothing since being in the Senate to stop the war.

Perhaps he is waiting for Bill Ayers to do some ground work for ending the war

Pogo

A change of behavior shows that the new behavior will be regarded more favorably than the old. I don't see that as being contrition.

Hillary's new supporters: Buchanan, Rove, McCain, Bush.
What's wrong with this list?

The general election campaign has already begun and the Republicans are attacking Obama 24/7. Saying nice things about Hillary is just one more of their tricks.

Obama's supporters
Tweety, Punkindhead and terrorists

Saying nice things about Hillary is just one more of their tricks.
Posted by: nash

Nash, Hillary has to take the complements where ever she can get them. She's certainly not going to be complemented by anyone at MSNBC or CNN. So if we have to go to Fox to find it bearable, then there we'll go.

"The general election campaign has already begun and the Republicans are attacking Obama 24/7. Saying nice things about Hillary is just one more of their tricks. "

Should have thought about it before you called all the Clinton supporters racists.
Politics ain't beanbag

I have a problem with this line. "But, I'm not privy to the Senate intelligence reports," Mr. Obama said. "What would I have done? I don't know". He's been running on this issue against Hillary saying he would of voted against it based on his own vantage point. Sounds a little weak. It seemed to work against Hillary I am not so sure it will in the National election.

Primaries today:

Small, poorly educated, underdeveloped, former slave state: Hillary wins.

Large, sophisticated, economically diverse state, where people never owned slaves: Obama wins.

Nash, your remarks are racist and another reason why I will vote for McCain. And hey, buddy, my family tree has no slave owners in it nor are my parents and I, uneducated.

Keep it up.......

Small, poorly educated, underdeveloped, former slave state: Hillary wins. Posted by: nash

Aren't you the flatter today! Guess us poorly educated voters are sure lucky to have you smart "educated" guys to lead us in whatever direction you care to takes us.

"Antipathy" toward others who aren't like them?
Sounds like a great description of O-bots to me.

Obama supporters in Congress do NOT want to see Hillary as VP.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/sen.-obamas-backers-see-dream-ticket-as-nightmare-2008-05-19.html

Good Job Nash

Signed The GOP

Obama supporters in Congress do NOT want to see Hillary as VP. Posted by: nash

No kidding, Sherlock.

And Clinton supporters in Congress do not want to see Obama as President. So what?

It will be interesting to see how nice the Obama supporters are if by some twist of fate Hillary actually gets the nomination. Will there be talk of uniting the party?

There are several articles today at Huffingtonpost.com speculating about whether Bush is going to attack Iran before the November elections, in order to help McCain win.

This would is consistent with Bush's behavior in the past.

Pogo, there is a lot more than what Craig linked above regarding Ayers. And then there is the "togetherness" they shared at Woods Fund. Americans will love to learn who Ayers and Obama funded and how this close circle of freinds operated. For instance, AAAN and their ties to Cairns. Some Cairns founders are in jail. It is interesting to note the role wives played here. Rezko's wife Rita, Khalidi's wife and Ayer's wife. Of course there was the Governor's wife and Obama's wife. Such equality in ideology and effort is very nice.

about that flag burning amendment
Obama supporters are liars and based on the ones here too stupid to go out without a conservator

RICHARD] COHEN (2/5/08): [. . . [I]n 2005, [Clinton] co-sponsored a bill that would make flag-burning illegal. . . . I was not alone in suggesting that on the flag issue, Clinton was readying herself for a presidential race and trying to blunt her image as a harridan of the political left.

. . . Look, I know what Obama was doing when he refused to confront his minister about the latter's embrace of Louis Farrakhan. . . . He will not get my Profiles in Courage award for this, but the rest of his record overwhelms this one chintzy act. Not so with Clinton. In the first place, you don't get to pander with the First Amendment. It is just too important, too central, not merely an amendment but a commandment: Thou Shalt Not Abridge Speech.

In his column the next week, the following correction:

COHEN (2/12/08): My Feb. 5 column was critical of Hillary Clinton for supporting a bill to make flag burning illegal. I have since learned from a reader that Barack Obama also supported that bill.
Heh. That is a classic.
http://dailyhowler.com/dh050508.shtml

FROM ONE SIDE NOW! Clinton supported the flag bill, sings Collins. But guess what? Obama did too: // link // print // previous // next //

MONDAY, MAY 5, 2008
MALLABY’S GHOST: In the past three days, the Washington Post and the New York Times have provided tons of nonsense (and some decent work as well). Yesterday, the Outlook section jumped the shark once again, to cite just one gruesome example. But Sebastian Mallaby won our hearts with this op-ed in this morning’s Post. With apologies again to Brother Foxworthy:

You may be an elitist if: You “reason” like Big Pundit Mallaby

Those of you interested in the possibilities for the GE, there is a site called electoralprojection (you can google it, I don't have the url right at hand), updated daily that projects how states will go, based on current polling. Also shows source of data, etc. It references only Obama and McCain at this point.

As to the Ayers connection -- unfortunately for Sen Obama there are photographs. Does anyone remember Sen McCain's famous line when talking about Hillary's request for funds for funding for a Woodstock Museum in upstate New York? That he didn't remember the event because he was "tied up at the time." Expect to see at least a 527 group juxtaposing that remark with Obama's connection to Ayers.
There are a lot of old geezers in this country, and we all vote...and even those who opposed the war in Vietnam know that the Weather Underground were little more than criminals.

Bry Bry's reason for hating Clinton --the flag burning amendment

Does this mean he will turn on Obama now?

There will be no response from Bry Bry or any of the other liars for Obama -faced with the truth

they run away or yell racist.

The Republicans nominated the one candidate who can win and the Democrats are set to nominate the one candidate who will lose.

Nick: You failed to mention that, according to David Axelrod, Hillary was also responsible for the assassination of Benazir Bhutto.

Hillary's latest gambit is to accuse the MSM of "sexism."

The Clinton campaign has come up with an ever-changing array of dubious rationales about why she "should be" the nominee. Then they lay out a number of equally bizarre (and undemocratic) processes about how this could happen, usually involving cooking the books with fictitious FL and MI "votes." MSM pundits dismiss all this nonsense and keep referring to the actual delegate totals.

Apparently, pointing out that she is losing, is sexist.

Ayers & Obama?

This is just swiftboating. The Republican slime machine produces the message and the MSM mindlessly repeats it.

No one believes this crap anymore.

Posted by: nash | May 20, 2008 10:11 AM

nash, because of the msm mindlessly repeating what Obama has not done a good job of putting to rest, it will continue to be a problem for him until he does and they quit - and then the 527s will kick in to continue what appears to be working. Where do you think voters form their opinions - from the dismissive words of bloggers that support Obama? No, they more likely form their opinions from what they hear mindlessly and endlessly repeated in the MSM - no matter what the source.

And too bad your voting paradigm for today is the exception rather than the rule for Obama.

Flatus - my point was that the actions reflecting new positions are more important to me than contrition for old positions. I don't care that someone says they are sorry for wrong positions they once held so long as they take correct positions in the present.

Maxs, I'm sure you're right about what's out there about Obama and Ayers - I'm not planning to dig into it - I'm sure the GOP will do that for me.

I can only suspect that if Nash doesn't think MSM has been quite sexist, he must beat his wife or girl friend if he has one. Maybe that's why he is oblivious to sexism.

nanny: Actually Axelrod is a shrewd and ruthless campaign organizer. He was singularly aware of the advantages inherent in the crazy rules of delegate apportionment and knew how to make the most of them. He also played a very clever game with the "race card." IMHO the most singularly vicious thing to have come out of this campaign is the systematic way in which the Obama camp used every opportunity to portray Bill Clinton as a failed President and the Clintons themselves as racists. THIS CANNOT BE FORGIVEN.

Clinton closing in Oregon polls
Email|Link|Comments (248) Posted by Foon Rhee, deputy national political editor May 19, 2008 03:57 PM
The latest pre-primary polls suggest that Hillary Clinton has faint hopes of stalling Barack Obama's march to the Democratic nomination.

Obama had been leading by double digits in Oregon, where he expects to win on Tuesday, enabling him to declare victory in the pledged delegate race and
perhaps sew up the nomination.
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/05/clinton_closing.html

guess that big economically diverse state is just like Ohio, Pa, Florida, Michigan

But the latest polls in Oregon show Clinton within striking distance. Obama leads 45 percent to 41 percent with 8 percent undecided and 6 percent refusing a response, according to a Suffolk University survey released this morning. An American Research Group survey puts Obama's lead at 50 percent to 45 percent.

No one believes this crap anymore.
Posted by: nash | May 20, 2008 10:11 AM

I had an abortion in 1966 and I gave money to Obama in 2008. Obama better look out, my past might be used against him.

Nanny

"What they fail to recognize is that we have free will and many of us just won't vote for him even if Hillary and Bill personally show up on our doorsteps and plead with us to do so."

I was contacted by a columnist today who will be writing about this, and I said: It isn't over until it's over, but if the expected outcome happens then It's diamonds, roses, and candy time. It isn't about what "he wants to give her". It is about what she wants to have in order to support him.

If she comes out and tells us she asked for and got whatever (VP, Cabinet, Senate Majority, Supreme Court), then we would consider whether or not she had been treated fairly and then WE would decide whether or not to back him. Anything less, and we would probably vote for him or sit at home, but the "not one dime, not one minute" rule would probably go into effect.

No signs, no precinct walks, no voter registration, no phone calls, no letters to the editors, no cars driving voters to the polls, no poll watchers or volunteers .... nada, zilch, nothing. The women who have given decades to the party and its candidates would agree with him that they weren't needed and would therefor, do nothing.

Tonight, after the Oregon results are in, Obama will announce that he has won the majority of pledge delegates and that he is the Democratic nominee.

Meanwhile, in the land of the deluded, Hillary will claim the race is not over, McCain will claim that the surge is working, and Bush will be ordering the military to bomb Iran.

Nash: Re Ayers and Obama -- how is it swiftboating to point out that Sen Obama has had a relationship -- however limited -- with an unrepentent terrorist, whom he has yet to criticize. Of course he has no responsibility for anything Ayers did in his past, but he seems not to be bothered by it, either. At least he has never said he found Ayers long-ago activities and the lack of repentence in any way troubling.

joy behar had a good point......people holding up signs at hillary saying " Iron my shirts"

what if the sign had read pointed at obama...."shine my shoes"?

Ayers bobmed buildings and hurt people in the 60s, The Ayers family gave tons of money to Obama in 1995 while bomber Will stomped on the flag, so Obama better watch out in 2008

Quite different than JBs line.

Hey
Ayers, gotta love it

Why?
Because there is nothing there!
Still Obama can't put it to rest.
LOL
Love it
Love it
Love it

Why?
Because his first response was to lie
"just someone who lived in the neighborhood"

Now he has to support his lie.

We all know it was a lie.

What a train wreck.

it is a pathological problem with Obama

With Ayers
With Wright
With Rezko

He first response was always a lie

He is going to loose an unlooseable election!

Friends don't let friends vote a straight ticket
Vote for divided government
Vote McCain

sturgeone: I had not heard that one. Very good ... I always harken back to Shirley Chisholm who said that she found in her life that her gender was more of a hindrance to her than was her race. Just one woman's observation, but a very astute woman.

nash,

From Salon:

Obama's "Appalachian problem" is a symptom of his party's larger "rural problem." But a new poll offers hope for the fall -- provided the Democrats show rural voters some respect.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/05/20/appalachia/

Bomber Ayers' family gave lots of money to Obama in 1995 while Willey stomped on the flag and proclaimed with his terror wife, they should have done more. They still do. And the Ayers' familiy got son editorials on the tribune had has prevented the correction by the Tribune for their falsely stating the facts about Ayer's activities.

This is a far cry from the simplistic crap, JB would like stupid people to swallow. Ayers who has never
repented is a good buddy of Obama and he and his family were crucial in helping Obama. Why don't you stick to the facts and explain why THAT doesn't matter. Woods Fund even gave money to a group that supported the Viet Cong during the Viet Nam War. Obama said nothing and approved the Funds along with Ayers. Care to comment on that? And Obama and Ayers gave money to their buddy Khalidi who then boasted he worked with the pro_Hamas group called Cairns. And these very people are connected to Rezko AND the Trinity Church. A little circle, heh? And you expect your idiotic comment about your abortion in 1966 and giving money to Obama in 2008 pertains to anythng other than BS?

Yeah Wright.

GDA and all who stand in the way of the next Messiah.

Nick, doesn't it also say that Jesus was a Black Palestinian?

Max: You are on a roll today...everything you post I'm sayin' "right on!"

pogo: Do you really believe that Obama is more vulnerable to swiftboating?

(1) Clinton has lots of things that can be used against her.

(2) The Republicans don't really need much to work with. They can swiftboat ANYONE.

Thus, the argument that Hillary the better nominee because she is less vulnerable doesn't make sense.

Good morning from Kentucky, and what a nice gloomy, damp, chilly morning it is. Traffic is really picking up here in the downtown area, looks as if some voting might be going on. It was very light traffic in my neighborhood this morning, which means all the early risers were going the other direction to the polling place.

My niece got to see Hillary yesterday at Prestonsburg.
She said it was a really great speech. Unfortunately, she didn't get to meet her. Hillary did smile & nod at the sign she was holding, though, when she first came out to speak.

The online poll for the local WYMT tv station has Hilliary leading by 60% to Obama's 11%. That's mostly for southcentral & southeastern KY. Obama will do better around Louisville, they expect.

Here's an interesting story from the campaign trail, wonder if it will be as popular as the Larry Craig bathroom...

http://www.kentucky.com/254/story/410060.html

This headline is says it all. Top Story: Clinton to Win Kentucky's Derby, but Obama Mulls VP Choice

Long time Craig Crawford fan, first time poster. Love this site. Ayers and Dohrn are just the beginning of what the Republicans have in store for Obama. But surely, the Democratic leadership (who forced this crass, finger flipping, pelvic posing, sweetie calling neophyte on us) are prepared for the onslaught?

nannym: I have already been pilloried as a racist for stating that I would vote for McCain instead of Obama. I have no idea what that makes my Marine AA neighbors who have been for McCain from the beginning.

nash: My argument is that Hillary would make the better nominee because she would be the better President.
On the subject of electability, however, little that the GOP can throw at Hillary is not already known. Almost everything they can say about Obama will be news to the majority of voters. We should always remind ourselves that the number of people voting in primaries is just slightly north of 20% of the voting population.

I will say it again, Obama had a special group of friends. No Rabbis or Powels, no Liebermans or Clintons, no Ford Jrs or Bloombergs, no Jordans or Cosbys. He had a special group that shared his ideology and when he ran for President he formed another special group. No Powels, no Cohens, no Bidens, no distinguished ex generals, no Albrights or Browns just Obama's hand picked special people that have dropped like flies or have been put in the freezer like Skeletor and Zbig. Susan Rice is the new Condi Rice and of course, she has said Obama couldn't handle that 3 am call. Obama couldn't fire her, he would have no left to answer the phone.....

Obama doesn't want this to count. His trajectory doesn't matter even if it points to venus instead of the moon.

It does matter. It matters very much.

Biran, you took a 30 minute break you called work? If that pays well please let me in on it.

After 15 months we still don't know much about Obama. Something is wrong with this picture.

The William Ayers plan to turn America's schoolchildren into Maoists and how Barack Obama helped him

Characterizing the Weatherman as "an American Red Army," Ayers summed up the organization's ideology as follows: "Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home. Kill your parents."

... Ayers’s politics have hardly changed since his Weatherman days. He still boasts about working full-time to bring down American capitalism and imperialism. This time, however, he does it from his tenured perch as Distinguished Professor of Education at the University of Illinois, Chicago."

http://pundita.blogspot.com/2008/05/william-ayers-plan-to-turn-americas_20.html

vadarryl: Mulls VP Choice? They should find a new headline writer...someone from this century. Mulls? Good grief, sounds as if he's making a batch of cider.

nash, you are either missing or ignoring my point. I believe that Obama is vulnerable to swiftboating. So is Hillary. So is Elmer Fudd. If you're right, Obama's the nominee, isn't he? And if he's the nominee, whether Hillary is more or less vulnerable to swiftboating is entirely irrelevant. The point is, he will be swiftboated if an issue even colorably has legs. He isn't getting out in front of these issues as effectively as you seem to believe. They are everywhere - MSM broadcasts, cable broadcasts, newspapers, liberal, conservative and moderate blog sites. If you believe he has the nomination sewn up, I'd suggest you start trashing McCain and start addressing the attacks against Obama. Trashing Hillary doesn't do you any good, and neither of them wins the swiftoat derby.

Long time Craig Crawford fan, first time poster. Love this site. Ayers and Dohrn are just the beginning of what the Republicans have in store for Obama. But surely, the Democratic leadership (who forced this crass, finger flipping, pelvic posing, sweetie calling neophyte on us) are prepared for the onslaught?

Posted by: HillaryforPrez | May 20, 2008 11:31 AM

HillaryforPrez: I can only assume that your "pelvic posing" remark is with regard to my all-time favorite Vogue. Vogue. Vogue. (Madonna sings in the background) video on the press plane? (It would have been SO funny if his phone had started ringing while he pretended to talk!)

Reasons Hillary should be the nominee...
* Large numbers of MI & FL delegates should go to her.
* Caucus states shouldn't count.
* Super-Ds should choose the "best" candidate.
* Pledge delegates aren't really "pledged"
* Obama is inexperienced.
* Obama is a ________.

Reasons Obama should be the nominee...
* He has the most delegates, both pledged & super-D
(And that's really all that matters).

pogo: As I read it, all attacks against Obama are to be dismissed as either
unimportant, irrelevant, racist, so did you too, or I never knew.
This means they never have to actually address the substance of any so-called attack.

nash: #1 reason Hillary should be the nominee -- she would make the better President.

nash, you are either missing or ignoring my point

Nash is our hero

Mindless Dreck and Pointless Drivel

maggi, yep. Seen it, know it.

Bye Bye, I have taken to beating my head against the wall because it will feel so good when I stop.

Pogo, why start trashing McCain? And there is something funny in your comments. Just because Republicans can swift-boat doesn't mean the attacks that will come ARE swift-boating. Why swift-boat when the stuff we have been saying is factual? And if the litany of things Obama should be held accountable for are true, then what makes him the best pick? Because the Democratic swift-boating of McCain is factual? That McCain isn't a better more credible centrist candidate more likely to resist BorgPelosi? Instead of falling back on loyalty, perhaps Jamie is right and friends AND country demand our loyalty above all and not to those responsible for the coup underway in the Democratic Party. That would be like supporting Hugo when he refuses to leave....LOL

Is it really such a horrible thing to vote your conscience and not the Party line? I will not vote for a candidate that still refuses to admit the role the Ayers had in the making of Obama. How can one vote for a candidate who refuses to admit he heard all the crap Wright spewed. I can't vote for a guy that lied to AIPAC and then turned down more sanctons on Iran. I am not going to listen to Bye Bye and just wait until after Obama is in office to see what he does, nor can I stand to listen to any more lifting of other's lines and the same redundant rhetoric of hope and change that has left NOTHING bold or inspiring in the wake of Obama's actual deeds. He attracts flies and that should tell us something of his history whether or not his Pied Piper speeches have attracted the deluded. in masse

I would rather be alone than wrong and I certainly don't need friends like Ayers to be Wright.

Calling Whashington the gutter of politics as opposed to Chicago IS calling the kettle Black. White Guilt, Media agenda and revulsion of Bush has created a perfect storm. The real question is what will get washed away when the hard rain stops.....

Senator Obama will expose the (Republicans) as Wizards (as in Oz --illusionary figures masquerading behind a curtain of Deceit!) The Republican Pretenders are skilled in rituals of smoke & mirrors. We, the American people, are tired of their trickery's and lies based on illusionary fear-mongering and not fact, and like the Wizard of Oz, when the curtain is pulled back by "the light of truth", they will be exposed as the fakers and the pretenders that they are -- with loud, silver-tounged voices filled with vinegar and no Real Power -- pulling strings of "make believe" to coverup their own innate weakness and Experienced villainy, an In-Experience and Naivite that Barack lacks. This unveiling will enable us to finally get off this merry-go-round -- this "yellow-brick-road" of illusion and deceit perpetrated upon the American public by these ShapeShifters and Betrayers of the Public Good.

This massed negativity has been a real detriment to American economic progress and peace in Iraq. Such pretenders and shapeshifters are like a millstone around the neck of humanity, crippling true effort. They proclaim Family Values, yet do nothing but impede true progress while humanity is dying. This massed, organized negativity has been what has enabled them to work so ruthlessly with power and success at the destruction of all that has attempted to get in the way of their projects, desires and greed. They refuse to recognize that humanity can solve its problems without aggression and force and instead use the energy of goodwill, sharing and cooperation.

If you disagree with the Pretenders' politics, however, in unison they attack by subterfuge, distortion and lies to disquise their true intent --the control of money and power for the GOP family only (so much for family values). Masters in fear mongering and shapeshifting, they hope to incite fear in an unsuspecting and gullible American public and to get them to embrace thier plans out of fear and against their own common sense and good judgment! Only this time, we will dispell this Illusion and not be fooled again by these "fakers, con-artists and Pretenders", and our united House, born out of need and true change, will withstand the onslaught of this False, now Fleeting Wind that has devastated the American way of life, no more!

Hey

I like Nash

Keep it up Nash
your doing a great job.

Nash's #1 talent

No matter how snarky I am.

He is clueless.
Just keeps churning it out.

McCain couldn't hire bloggers this good

Keep it up Nash

go, go, go, go

Friends don't let friends vote a straight ticket
Vote for divided government
Vote McCain

bacaangel: What in the world are you talking about?

Max, I don't disagree with anything you've said, but that was not the specific issue I was addressing. I was addressing nash's comments and the inconsistencies between what he is saying about Obam and what he is doing in trashing Clinton.

Why trash McCain? Because he is the Republican nominee and nash is supporting Obama. Is McCain more centrist than Obama? Yeah, probably, but I can't vote for a guy who has pledged to appoint more judges like Bush has to the federal bench. While swiftboating started out as being based in lies, I think it has evolved to include exaggeration of the truth - this election cycle will tell, but I didn't use the term other than picking up what nash said. I tend to refer to 527 attacks. they are based in both truth and lies.

And I think you should vote your conscience. I will.

bacaangel posts a true guide to the yellow brick road of American politics. Talk about Ozian deflection and needless verbiage. Just try to read this masterly post. The egoism is quite apparent. The irony of course, is the absurd sales pitch used to attack the "fakers, con-artists and Pretenders", when that is exactly what we have been debating about Obama...LOL

Rather than address the objections by LIBERALS to pretense and spin this person simply goes on the wacky programed rant about Republicans using hundreds of words that could be distilled down to this:

Don't vote for Republicans, they are evil and liars. Vote for Obama because he is good and will lead us to the promised land.

The only thing witty here is that becaangle never mentioned Obama's name. Just lifted the sales pitch...

nice try

interesting...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080518/ts_alt_afp/usvotegraphology

baccangel,

Why is the Emerald City green?

Everyone...

I understand the anger resonated in the postings on this blog. I feel it myself and in a political sense, I think I only felt it once before and what was when Walter Mondale lost the election in 1984. That one was personal for me. I had just moved from Minneapolis to cosmopolitan Seattle. I got involved with the Mondale folks, volunteering each and every day, helping anywhere and everywhere. I was young, fresh and so idealistic! My first vote for a President was election day 1980 when I proudly voted for President Carter, I had just become old enough as of August, and I registered on election day itself. Yeah, I was disappointed when Jimmy Carter lost. Sad really. And dumbfounded that anyone let alone a majority of voters would support Reagan.

Anyway, working for Mondale, I truly thought we were winning. OH yeah, I was really excited by the Geraldine Ferraro as Mr. Mondale's vice-presidential candidate. I thought that by putting a woman on the ticket, the advantage would immediately shift form the Repugs to the Dems. You must understand I was passionate but a bit naive about the whole process. Everyone I met in Seattle was voting for Mondale! I knew we were going to win. Well we took over 70% of Seattle and still lost King County. I was really down.

I was thrilled for Bill Clinton in 1992. When Daddy Bush was tossed out on his ass I felt exhilarated about the young handsome couples coming to the White House... Bill and Hillary, Al and Tipper. It felt good! Really good! Oh yeah, and finally I voted for someone who WON!

When 2000 rolled around, I was shocked by the voting confusion and the mess created in Florida by inept elections workers and the heavy handed actions by Katherine Harris who was determined to make sure that the votes when Bush's way. 2004 I was of course disappointed, but Kerry did that to himself.

But the second time I felt the same passion as in the Mondale campaign, it was when Hillary announced she was running for President. I've always admired her, her stature, hard work, stamina, intelligence. A couple of missteps cost her Iowa and the MSM shamefully declared Obama the nominee. How sick is that? After 1 state! Since them I have watched dumbfounded and frustrated at how lop-sided the reporting was in favor of Obama and critical of Hillary. The media bias has been and still is glaring. It's a dark mark in the history of "journalism".

So yeah, I am down and I can understand the excitement of Obama supporters. It would be nice if we could find common ground, and stop grinding each other and the candidates to the ground. I don't think our online fights are really healthy. And now I am down for this moment... :-) except to say, Hillary should stay in until the voting is completed and at that point re-assess. IMHO Obama should hold off claiming any "victory" that is not yet confirmed.

So yeah, I am down and I can understand the excitement of Obama supporters. It would be nice if we could find common ground, and stop grinding each other and the candidates to the ground. I don't think our online fights are really healthy. And now I am down for this moment... :-) except to say, Hillary should stay in until the voting is completed and at that point re-assess. IMHO Obama should hold off claiming any "victory" that is not yet confirmed. - EuroTom

Great post, ET. Very eloquent and I couldn't state it any better.

Max: I associate myself with your remarks entirely. But, you will not be alone.
We have been engaged in a struggle for the heart and soul of the Democratic Party for many years -- really going all the way back to 1960 when Eleanor Roosevelt continued to support the last Illinois dreamer against the more reality-driven JFK. People seem to forget that JFK actually ran to the right of Nixon and despite the adulation of his supporters (and I was certainly one of the screaming throng), despite the fact that he was far more articulate and witty than Sen Obama both in debate and in off the cuff interviews and press conferences, despite his more mainstream background, JFK actually won the Presidency by a very narrow margin. (And it has long been rumored that the Chicago political machine put him over the top).
From that time to this we have been plagued by a series of left-wing peaceniks (saving only Pres Clinton) who have either lost or been piss-poor Presidents (Carter).
Max, I suspect I am more socially liberal than you are, but I know that I am far more of a centrist on foreign policy. I am simply not going to vote for anyone who thinks it is a good idea to enhance the prestige of someone like Ahmadinijad by offering him a tete a tete.
Obama supporters -- and Obama himself -- keep coming back to the Kennedy-Kruschev meeting, failing to remember that by the time that meeting occurred, Kruschev had opened the gulags, and publicly decried Stalinist doctrine and tactics. Even then, the Vienna summit left Kruschev with the impression that JFK was weak and naive ... leading directly to the Cuban missile crisis. And JFK had decades more knowledge of foreign affairs than Obama does.

anon-p (if you're lurking),

From Anne Applebaum:

"Some seem to believe that we should negotiate with the terrorists and radicals. . . . We have heard this foolish delusion before. As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American senator declared: 'Lord, if I could only have talked to Hitler, all this might have been avoided.' "

-- George W. Bush, May 2008

"Moreover, in our time, these threats are not diminishing. . . . [and] in these new threats, as during the time of the Third Reich, are the same contempt for human life and the same claims of exceptionality and diktat in the world."

-- Vladimir Putin, May 2007

No, I am not drawing comparisons between George W. Bush and Vladimir Putin, two vastly different men, by citing these statements. Nevertheless, it is clear from the above that Bush and Putin, despite their vast differences, share a common contemporary ailment: Each suffers from the inexplicable need to inject the Nazis into current political debate, whether they belong there or not.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/19/AR2008051902234.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

Enough of this saving the Western World as we know it. Let's talk about something important.

CBS has cancelled Moonlight

There are petitions all over the web and multiple "save moonlight" videos on You Tube. You think Sen. Obama has made the women angry. If I were a male CBS executive, I wouldn't appear in public for the next year. The long knives are out!!!!!!

Geez! You have far more patience than I do, ET. Back to lurking for awhile, I could accomplish something productive, or hang out on this elementary school playground. Later....

Maxtrue wrote:

"Woods Fund even gave money to a group that supported the Viet Cong during the Viet Nam War. Obama said nothing and approved the Funds along with Ayers. Care to comment on that?"
Fucking Stupid!

Obama was 8 years old in 1969.

That whole paragraph is one big conflation of the facts. Your favorite tactic. Get it right or don't put it out!

pogo: I understand your apprehension about judicial appointments. I cling to the knowledge that the Senate must confirm each of those appointments. Not only will there be 2-4 additional Democrats in the Senate, but there remain 3 or 4 Republicans on whom we can rely if Sen McCain actually does what he says he will.

harborwoman,

Looking for your book... I'm always happy and thrilled to learn more elements of your life of challenge and accomplishment.

Among the smartest, best people I know are a few romance writers. (My favorite sub-genre's the time travel ones.)

is our oregondemocrat out there? can Hillary pull off an upset? can she keep it close? i hear the polls are tightening.
i've been seeing alot of P.O.ed women showing up on TV lately, i think they are trying to start a movement. but they say that they are going to vote for mccain if BHO gets the nod.
i couldn't do that. but i can't vote for BHO either. sorry sports fans, i don't trust him and i don't think he has what it takes to lead a nation. and i certainly don't think that threats of race riots is exactly a good tactic.

Pogo, McCain voted for all the Democratic judge picks and formed a group to prevent the nuclear option by Democrats while opposing Bush's absurd pick of Miers he never would have supported. McCain is not a serious pro-lifer and has not made that central to his possible choice. He panders less than Obama does.

He recently gave a speech about the judges he would pick and remember this important fact. Many judges on the Left support the expansion of the Commerce Clause that now allows local communities to take your home and sell it to a mall builder. One aspect of conservatism that goes back to Jefferson is that unbridled Federal expansion is not a great thing. McCain wants judges that will not create new law but see whether law is consistent with the Consitution. Obama did favor a total gun ban and is opposed to ending affirmative action or even making laws to change affirmative action from what it is now. He wants drivers licenses for illegals, no back ground checks for workers, no phot IDs for voters and probably partial birth abortions. He wants universal healthcare for illegals and thinks terrorists should enjoy the legal representation citizens have. These things are not rooted in Constitutional law. Because he has associated himself closely with the Far Left, why would I be more comfortable with Obama's pick for judge if indeed McCain is closer to center?

Again you imply that attack ads are based on truth AND fiction. We will have to see. I understand you were taking on the crazy Nash, but we should keep ads vetted to the criteria of truth. If the Republicans put out ads that are correct, they are not swift-boating no matter how tough they are. Already the Left is preparing ads that say McCain wasn't tortured and worked with the Viet Cong. They say he called for a hundred year war which Stewart admitted was false. Frankly, I think Democrats will swift boat to cover the truth by going nuclear and letting the fallout disrupt honest vetting. Make everything so ugly, the truthful attacks on Obama go unnoticed.

Yes, vote your conscience. That is all anyone can ask.....

Rezdog: If you will allow me to interject here... what has Obama's age to do with the matter? Are we to accept the notion that Ayers might have been a bad guy then but he has since become a good guy?

Many of the radicals of the 60s, whose so-called crimes were far less extensive than those of Ayers have apologized, repented, or changed their views. Ayers says he has not.

What if you found out that Sen McCain had sat on the board of a foundation that gave money to the John Birch Society or the American Nazi Party? Would that be OK or what it cause you to wonder?

Some of us had husbands and brothers who served in Vietnam. Even if we didn't like the war, the notion that someone like Ayers, who committed crimes he has admitted to and says he did not regret, is not just some mild-mannered college professor.

The Obama campaign is said to be making a list of Clinton campaign staffers to recruit, once she drops out of the race.

That will cause whispering in the hallways as the Clinton people try to figure out who's on the list, who's not, who has been approached, etc.

These days, life on the Clinton campaign staff must really suck.

Have we found out whether Axlerod has borrowed the "Mission Accomplished" banner from the Bush administration for Obama's "victory" speech tonight?

Oh, that's right, they can say it was the idea of the fawning Obamabots to put it up. hehe

good afternoon gang....
just wanted to post a link to yesterday's Christian Science Monitor's Opinion piece..... it's an article about Obama and his being an apostate Muslim.....

I know, I know..... it's GORDO's territory.... but it's the Christian Science Monitor for god sakes!.....

now off to catch up with today's postings....

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0519/p09s02-coop.html

I too, think Obama should hold off on his "victory" speech tonight.

I don't think it is a good idea to use the "Mission Accomplished" banner either. However, if Obama looks stupid he can always blame it on his fawning "Obamabots" and say they insisted he put it up. Or better yet ... Hillary made him do it.

Got caught in a double post. Liked my first one better anyway. :)

Any exit poll info comming out of oregon yet?

DH has just changed my mind. I will NEVER vote for Barack Obama under any circumstances.

It wasn't the blogs, the pundits, nasty Obamabots on here for example, it was my own husband.

This primary is one for the record books, fellow Democrats, my husband and I have never so strongly disagreed about presidential candidates since we've known each other. And that's a long time.

maggisd

For someone (Max) who wrote this before the portion I quoted:

"Why don't you stick to the facts and explain why THAT doesn't matter."

Facts do matter. Max has a tendency of creating his own Or at least what he imagines from the few facts he knows and then merges (conflate) them into one long rant that suits his purpose.

I've never said Ayers was a choir boy or someone to be respected. But, to suggest that Obama funded the Viet Cong is quite ludicrous, don't you think? And during the wartime! To me it is FS.

So join the team.

"Max: I associate myself with your remarks entirely. "
maybe you can help keep the facts straight.

Clinton is blaming sexism? The claim.

The facts:
After her anticipated win in Kentucky tonight, despite the turning of some superdelegates in recent weeks and the media proclaiming her candidacy doomed, Hillary Clinton will have won four of the last six primaries. Her supporters are not accepting that the nomination has been decided and she insists she's going forward.

Whether she succeeds or not, it's clear her supporters are particularly upset about the sexist coverage of the campaign.

In Kentucky Sunday, Hillary Clinton was asked about sexism and racism in this year's presidential campaigns:

In an interview after church services in Bowling Green on Sunday, Clinton for the first time addressed what women have been talking about for months, what she refers to as the "sexist" treatment she has endured at the hands of the pundits, media and others. The lewd T-shirts. The man who shouted "Iron my shirt" at a campaign event. The references to her cleavage and her cackle.

[More...]

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/5/20/122930/515

9/11 - exactly. Just as troubling to me is that Sen Obama could so easily have said ... you know, I was just a child when these things happened and in my limited association with Prof Ayers, I did not discuss the 60s. But, if he did what he claims he did, then I regret my association with him. I certainly do not share his views.
What I want to know is -- how many instances are we to accept in which Obama is shown to have questionable associations that he just knew nothing about?

I guess Hillary will speak at 10 right after American Idol is finished, wonder what time Obama will speak. Will he start speaking before Hillary even finishes. It maybe well past midnight in the east before oregon is decided. Might be to late to get prime time coverage.

it doesn't matter how old O was when Ayers did what he did. O knew what he did and how he felt about it and still befriended him. i can't see myself sitting around chatting with the unibomber!
if nothing else, it makes O look like a poor judge of character.

Of those Obama has chosen to surround himself with there is a common thread there -- anti-American. He talks about being raised in Kansas when in fact he was raised in Hawaii and Indonesia. He was a grown man when he actually lived in the United States. One of the first things he did was associate himself with Jeremiah Wright and his liberation theology.

He came on the scene promoting unity and he was compelling, even bringing tears of emotion to my eyes. But something happened that got my attention. And I started trying to find out all I could about Barack Obama.

He claims the Clintons have injected race into the process, but it was Obama himself who plopped it right in our laps with his speech on race. He put race in the equation, and he did to get out of a jam he was in when it became public that his pastor is probably the most racist and divisive character I have ever seen or heard. I dare say there is not one of us who would have stayed in that church for one Sunday, much less 20 years. And you can just start looking from there and what you find is one dubious character after another.

I have asked myself does this matter? My answer is, you damn right it does. One tends to associate with those of similar beliefs and ideology. You can tell a lot about a person by who they hang out with. That's basic.

Now Barack Obama is free to belong to any church he chooses, he is free to align himself with anyone he wants to. But when he wants to be President, it becomes my business. And I would not vote for him under any circumstances.

Rezdog: I think you misunderstood Max's post. What he said that Sen Obama voted with Ayers (and one presumes other members of the board of the Woods Foundation) to fund an organization that had once upon a time supported the Viet Cong.

maggiesd,

If that is the case... wow.

When I have met ANYONE who played their part in any era... I ask questions.

If Obama really did not....

He truly is as bad as his avatar --

Incurious George.

Their speeches are usually 30 minutes so Hillary could start at 10:30 and finish at 11:00 and push Obama until after prime time in the east. It will be interesting to watch, also if Oregon ends up being to close to call for a few hrs. How many hrs behind the east cost is Oregon?

My God,

After trying to read peoples posts today, this place has digressed to the point of needing the following since you all cannot comprehend more than this...

Sex Manual

In, out, repeat.

At what point will Clinton supporters realize that your candidate can't win a general election if you don't win the nomination?

I am going to tell you a story that happened to me once. I was playing in the finals of a tennis tournament. I smoked the kid 6-2 in the first set. I was up 5-1 in the second set and I decided to let him take a game so his feeling wouldn't be too hurt from the ass kicking I was giving him. It gave him some momentum. Next thing I know, he cheats a couple of line calls and I had a total meltdown, I threw my racket at the punk and ended up losing in the third set.

I just described Hillary's campaign for you. It was not a media creation that she was inevitable. It was the posture she assumed because her overpriced advisers told her to run a GE campaign. Look at what happened to Lieberman in Connecticut. He pissed off his base and lost the nomination. At least he knew he would win as an independent. He did the same thing in 2000 when he was on the VP and Senate ballot at the same time.

If you all think Obama is an incompetent, disingenuous, traitorous, sexist, elitist prick, then what does it say when your #$@$ candidate couldn't beat him?

You demand accountability from Obama...when will you people hold your chosen candidate accountable for paying Mark Penn $5 million? Do you think it's a coincidence that she started doing better when he was sacked? A win is a win. Is it Obama's fault that she was too lazy or too arrogant to realize that the party rules valued those contests the same as primaries?

Wake up. I know that there will be a lot of sour grapes and a lot of people think Obama will lose in November. You do realize that if the candidate you think was "anointed by the media" loses, they will blame Clinton for it and make sure she has no shot in 2012?

Why is everyone incapable of looking at this with an objective eye, even for a @#$# second?

Alright, if anyone is still curious about this:

1. My friends, I voted for Hillary in 2000.
2. She has done a marvelous job representing Upstate New York.
3. She has voted like a Tory for over seven years now. Some of you may not want to see another list, so I'll make this short, and recent: (a) didn't say boo during that whole Terry Schiavo fiasco, (b) supported asinine Flag Burning Amendment, (c) not a peep about the burgeoning Surveillance State/death of Habeas Corpus, etc., and (d) supported Lieberman's torture-fudging amendment to the torture-is-bad bill (McSame's bill, I think, but he's running away from that as fast as he can. Gotta get the pro-torture vote nailed down, it's an important part of the GOP base, or what's left of it.)
4. In short, she has not represented me or my values in the Senate, which was what I expected--God only knows why--when I voted for her originally. It's not even close. "Disappointment" is far too mild a term. I voted Green in '06 rather than vote for her again.
--Even if I disagree with a lot of what he's done, at least Chuck Schumer fights in the Judiciary Committee against the extremist judges whatsisname nominates, against the subversion of the judiciary (although the new AG is his fault); I don't need to agree with a Senator on everything. Just something. But Hillary: zip, zero, zilch, nada, bupkis. And she keeps stealing ideas from the Republicans.

If it had been Edwards instead of Obama, or if Mark Warner had run and we were in a Cinton-Warner showdown, I'd probably still not support her. I'm a New Yorker, and so I have reasons that don't apply to other voters; me, I feel like I got scammed, and ended up with a moderate Republican Senator instead of a liberal Democrat. She talks a good line, but when it comes to the crunch she lurches to the right.

For God's sake, does anyone here really truly believe Karl Rove said she was the stronger candidate because he has the Democratic Party's best interests at heart? Ask yourself why RIchard Mellon Scaife has a crush on her, and see if you like the answer.

Re: Kentucky and W.Va., she does well in Southern states where they don't like black people but don't have a lot of them. [I come from Texas, originally, so don't try arguing I'm prejudiced against Southerners. I've known people like this for a long time.] Does anyone here really truly think she could win Ky. and W.Va. in the general? For that matter, does anyone think she could win the general without 90% of the black vote, which will stay home if she's the nominee, given what we've gone through since Jan. 3rd. It would be an interesting experiment, a Dem trying to win without black voters; but it usually only works for Republicans. She would snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, and frankly I've seen that so much in the last forty years, I'm really tired of it.

If Obama loses because enough Americans fall for the same old GOP crap, which has included racism ever since they decided to go after Wallace voters, well...as the android said in Blade Runner: "Then we're stupid, and we'll die." We've tried playing it safe for forty years, and it hasn't worked. This may be our last chance before the country spins completely out of control (can you say, "seven dollars a gallon?" I knew you could...). And if Hillary somehow slithers onto the ticket, they will beat her like a gong and keep making leering jokes about Bill. This is why the "dream ticket" is more of a nightmare ticket.

And as for Michigan--she was the only candidate who broke the pact and put her name on the ballot. The Soviets used to run elections with only one candidate; and the candidate always won. And Florida, well, Craig is in the tank for the Fla. Democratic Party, so whatever. By the time Rules sits and deals with this issue it may be moot. If not, it will be the Mother of All Credentials Fights and will have to be settled at the convention. [Remember, everyone, the Fla. and Mich. "delegates" can't vote on whether to seat themselves; and if Obama controls the floor, they will only get seated if it won't change control. Read Hunter Thompson's '72 campaign book for an account of the 72 credentials fight.]

And if you don't like MSNBC or CNN, why not try Fox Noise Channel? I hear they're trying to be fair and balanced....

SouthSloper
Brooklyn, New York

Meg, I am not sure you are more socially liberal than I am, but great post, thanks.

Rez, I do not know what your problem is. Sorry, I can't help you with that. The fact is that Obama and Ayers funded a group that supported the Viet Cong. And since then this group has advocated changing America in to a quasi communist/socialist state while denouncing everything about our foreign policy since the Viet Nam war. Only you and the Obamniacs would consider this non factual and irrevelant.

Like your post last night. Even Obama who latered retracted his comment that no one knew about Rezko's troubles at the time Obama purchased land from him, a. Obama got Rezko interested in the plot of land and b. Rezko most likely helped him for some kind of quid pro quo. Now you call this anything but fact. Okay, even Obama's words aren't fact and the NYT is making EVERYTHING up they print. I didn't know that.

And the shell game with Rita is hysterical. Yeah, she just had $600.000 to buy some land she later sold for no profit. And check this out: Rita bought the land (held the mortgage) for a favor Obama claims Rezko most likely wanted from him. She held the mortgage BECAUSE HE WAS HAVING HIS ASSETS TAKEN FROM HIM. Yet he did this land deal? We are to believe that Obama didn't know why he bought the land from Rita and not Tony?....LOL

Okay, you are right Rez, this is all the worse kind of non factual garbage. Obama concealed the transaction and gave some of Rezko's money back because it WAS irrelevant. Obama changed this stories several times because he has a bad memory, like what language is spoken in Afghanistan.

GD us all for questioning the quid pro quo in Chicago THAT HAS NEVER BEEN VETTED. Seems it is wrong for Bush to have oversight of wiretaps but it is great to have the Democrats check out any criminal quid pro quo in their gutter of politics.

i wonder....if the early states had a do-over, do you think BHO would win again? i don't hink so. and by the way, you can't judge a state by it's caucus.

Posted by: SouthSloper | May 20, 2008 1:03 PM

your post is full of lies and half truths
A number of candidates were still on the Michigan ballot Clinton was not the only one.

The rest of your post is crap as well

If the Republicans win it will be because of ignorant fools like you

9/11: You earlier posted about the appeasement tag ... so, here are my thoughts on that.
Chamberlain was a foolish and naive man. He did not admit nor recognize that the time to have stopped Hitler was when he took back the Ruhr. By Munich, it was too late.
Second thought ... what if it turns out that Obama really does agree with former Pres Carter that the way to end the terrorist threat in the world is to convince (coerce, bludgeon) the Israelis into giving up the entire West Bank, including Jerusalem, unilaterally? Would that be appeasement.
Note here how OBL has stepped up his pronouncements about fighting for the Palestinians, about whom he cared not one whit earlier on.

I do think we would get much different results now. Also if the Caucus states would have normal voting more people would come out and vote. I think if the Reps would have a do-over they might have a different candidate too.

Maggisd & 9/11,

I've never said a kind word about Ayers. I think Obama's relationship with him at Woods or the university was innocuous at best. If he had bigtime political aspirations, Obama should have been smarter and kept his distance.

I don't believe anyone can sincerely suggest Obama sides with Ayers past actions. It's not Obama's job to beat a confession out of Ayers. I haven't reviewed all of Obama's comments as to the relationship. Maggisd made a grand suggestion. He should be in PR.

Ayers is fair game. i just think and hope voters are more interested in gas/food prices and our current military woes than these bunny trails. If one questions Obama's character because of Ayers, then vote for someone else by all means.

Wow ... looks like the "professional" blogging core has arrived.

Keep up the good work guys ... President McCain thanks you.

TECH REMINDER: To avoid double posts, please hit that Submit button ONE TIME ONLY -- even if you get an error message or long delay it will go through. Expect another election day for heavy traffic on the site, which will slow down comment publishing a bit. But the more you hit the Submit button the more duplicates you'll create.

IT SHOULD BE ABOUT LEADERSHIP.. TOO.

Hillary has proven she is a leader with incredible resolve.

What I find most troubling about Sen. Obama.. He has not engaged in debates since he failed. He has not engaged in Town Hall meetings since he has stumbled repeatedly with unscripted comments. He has not talked to the press since "sweetie". Obama will not travel to rural areas in Appalachia since his own comments about racists bitter small town Americans.

This is not the character of a leader. It has everything to do with marketing an image and DODGING AND WEAVING so voters will not get the chance to know you. JFK, for example, walked right into W. Virginia, as a Catholic, and got their vote. That is a leader. Obama is no leader.

I teach nursing at the collegiate level. My students have been engaged in a friendly politcal discussion all semester. Most were evenly divided in Jan. 2008 between HRC and BO. Since they are predominantly female, I listened and watched as they have personally witnessed the total destruction of Hillary as a women to destroy her as a candidate.

The mood has changed and the bloom is off the rose. Many BO supporters have now decided that BO's soaring oratory about a new America and change is just plain.. bullshit.. Asked what they will do in Nov. Most shrugged, looked at their Fall scedules, realized it would be mid term time, and said.. "probably will stay in the dorms"

This has all the makings of an unmitigated disaster. As a loyal but angered Democrat, I hope we can keep the down ticket Dems strong for a veto proof Congress.

Go Hillary. You are a class act!!

Rez,

Are you telling me the Senator did not know his own ambition at that time?

Are you telling me that a man who has undertaken such a unique march from law school to community organizer to state legislator to Senator to seeking the Presidency in such a compact and orderly way would not wonder for a second if this was a wise association --

And that perhaps he should resign from that board and join another?

One thing I am not seeing in either of the Obamas is a ton of consequential thinking.

That is Axelrod's department and he is a pip at it (with flaws, of course -- but he is the Dem's only competitor with Rove).

Obama when confronted with the consequences of his relationships says EXACTLY what my daughters eight year old half-brother does when he is confronted with what he has done:

"I didn't know."

"I didn't know."

Again... mistakes or ignorance or a lack of attention are a real pattern in his public denial of his associations.

Politics makes strange bedfellows, etc., etc.

But a person of Obama's overwhelming and singular ambition --

To change politics and lead it all himself --

Really rationalizes way too much.

Again... it reminds me of a certain president who saw what he wanted to see.

And, no, it isn't an improvement that instead of never apologizing or admitting to overwhelming mistakes that this Senator simply mealy mouths and smiles.

Not at all.

Ted Kennedy has a malignant brain tumor. Just heard it on CBS radio.

btw
i have lots of friends and family still living in NY, some in the city and some upsate-they all think HRC has done a good job as senator. some suport BHO, some HRC for president. but they have no complaints about her work as senator.
no, you can't expect everyone to be happy about everything that their politicians do. but you usually have an idea of what they are about. this gives you some insight into their personality. you don't have that with BHO. you have no idea at all of where he wants to go, other than the white house.

If you all think Obama is an incompetent, disingenuous, traitorous, sexist, elitist prick, then what does it say when your #$@$ candidate couldn't beat him? - Bear

When the Democratic Party aided and abetted by a complicit press is against you, I would say you're playing against a heavily stacked deck. These two factors coupled with a completely f'd up primary system has put us where we are now. If the Dem primary system was winner take all, we wouldn't be having these discussions because this thing would have been over a long time ago.

Your comment would have some merit if Obama hadn't been "selected" by the Press and the Dem Party much like "W" was selected by the Supreme Court.

As we know, Gore didn't haven't much of a chance either.

Are you telling me that a man who has undertaken such a unique march from law school to community organizer to state legislator to Senator to seeking the Presidency in such a compact and orderly way would not wonder for a second if this was a wise association --

a point of accuracy. Obama went from community organizing to law school. Once he graduated from law school he did not work as an organizer again.

Career path: graduated from Columbia took a job as a financial writer, became a community organizer and then went to law school law firm and then state senate

Bowowoww

I don't know how you can say Hillary has demonstrated great leadership when all of the critical votes being held against her were bills sponsored by other Senators, that she voted for to blend in with the crowd.

I have seen a lot of business owners in the DFW area say that they want their managers to study the Obama campaign from this race to see what true leadership is to learn how to effectively run a business. Though they probably won't vote for him, they are in total awe of how he could come from nowhere and get to the levels he achieved so quickly. You do realize that his is the only campaign without a major shakeup in leadership?

maggisd,

There was a piece in the NYT very recently which put forward a basic truth about a major difference between the Israeli and American notions of the threat of jihad.

The Americans take a macro view.

The Israelis take a micro with a lot more room for different perspectives and disagreements -- one that's formed by a world of daily threats with which everyone has to deal, Jew and Palestinian, liberal or conservative.

Well, the West Bank/Jerusalem surrender would be less about appeasement (which is the word du jour) than it would be about a whole bunch of things...

Starting with... what good with that accomplishment for anyone... starting with the Palestinians?

How much would they gain in stability, social services, political stabilization and, of course, the sixty year absence of viable support (food, education, health care, support for a stable set of political bases) from their Arab brethren?

I know tons of Israelis who would be happy to dump the entire post-1967 acquisitions in history's dumpster.

And I know a few who would like to move their entire nation to New Zealand. (We make for great hobbits, elves and wizards.)

Are you telling me that a man who has undertaken such a unique march from law school to community organizer to state legislator to Senator to seeking the Presidency in such a compact and orderly way would not wonder for a second if this was a wise association -- Audacity of Ambition

Obama was following the money like any good "politician" would. Not a Messiah, Obamabots ... a politician!

"You do realize that if the candidate you think was "anointed by the media" loses, they will blame Clinton for it and make sure she has no shot in 2012?"

Obviously Hillary will be blamed. The O-bots have already got that meme in play. How DARE Eve eat that apple? How DARE that bitch run against this golden man??? And actually run a tough campaign to WIN? No, she should have been a good little girl and slunk back in the corner after his "important" wins in states like Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama -- all obviously planning to turn blue in November.

Audacity of Ambition,

Thank you.

I hear so much narrative about him that I lost the details of his timeline.

so sorry about teddy

Rezdog: I do not question Sen Obama's character. I question his judgment and his need to be a pleaser.

In fact, I have empathy for him. I, too, was deserted by both parents (one died young, one took off) and raised by elderly grandparents. Product of a religiously mixed marriage, I too struggled with identity. In my case it took the form of church hopping. But, here's the thing ... I began walking out of church services when I was 8 years old, when I was 11, when I was 13 ... when I heard bigotry and lack of acceptance from the pulpit. I confronted employers as well as guests in my own home when they used language or expressed views that I found bigoted or morally questionable. I never lost a job or a friend because of it, although I have long since stopped attending religious services.

It is from this personal experience that I question Sen Obama, that I suggest he either agrees with all these people, has insufficient judgment to recognize them for what they really are, or is so invested in fitting in and pleasing people that he can't bring himself to think ill of anyone.

Yes Patsi, you're correct ... Georgia is going to turn a lovely shade of blue come November ... NOT! LOL

That's terrible news about Senator Kennedy.

Ally: Thank you for posting that. I think I have lost my appetite for this discussion just now.

"You do realize that his is the only campaign without a major shakeup in leadership"

Yes they still have all the lobbyists like Tom Daschle working for them. Oh right rain makers for firms of lobbyists...just not lobbyists.

The Obama campaign didn't come from nowhere. Unless you friends can go on the Oprah show to launch a booktour a year before the campaign, I rather doubt they will achieve the same effect.

Obama is not the little red hen. Obama picked up a frustrated anti war movement. They get the credit not Obama. He capatalized on it. But to say he came from nowhere is a myth. He has been traveling around, fundraising and giving money (over 1 million to super delegates) since 2004. It's not a bad thing. however,he didn't just spring out of nowhere.

Obama benefits from a trend since 2000 in an increase in young voters. He gets them but he didn't bring them out. If you look at the increases since 2000 they are equal each year.

It's a good campaign but not really anything special.
You could say the same things about the 2000 Bush campaign.

Patsi,

If she were the good little girl, she would have started campaigning like this last November, not February. She got lazy and complacent.

If this were a Nascar race, rather than trying to catch up by driving faster, she needed to knock obama into the wall and spin him out to get her lap back and to find a way into the race. People want to see a winner based on what they do, not on what they do to the other person.

Now you need to be a good little girl and sit in the corner or I will go to the fridge and cut me a big slice of this chocolate cream pie that I happen to have...I will also wave my fork at the monitor every time I take a bite of this sinfully luscious cake....lol

Oh...fried okra too...(yes, this is my chickamauga btw)

Will over 55 supers announce they back Obama before his speech tonight. If both states go 57% to 43% and Obama gets those 55 supers he will have enough without counting FL and MI. I don't see that happening unless it's all planned out that they do.

Ally: Thank you for posting that. I think I have lost my appetite for this discussion just now.

Posted by: maggisd

Well put.

CNN is reporting that it's 1918 to 1719 and 215 supers left.

Max, we are in different occupations and view judges differently I suspect. In my occupation, there are a number of adjectives to describe judges who would restrict individual rights, basing their decisions on a narrow reading and restrictive application of a document that did not envision today's world or the challenges that document would have to deal with. (e.g. It is hard to view drivers licenses as having any basis in a document that predated the invention of the automobile by over a hundred years). Originalist and literalist are a couple of those words. Activist is the smear that the right uses to describe judges who attempt to apply the document's general intent within today's context to effect a desired outcome. McCain has pledged to nominate judges of the former ilk - as Bush has done. The paradox is that Bush's judges have taken judicial activism to a level never before seen - overturning and distorting laws willy nilly while cynically stating they are doing the opposite.

The whole nuclear option thing was a ploy to avoid setting a precedent (again, dishonest - it had been exercised before) that would allow Congress to block any consideration of judicial nominees with whom it did not agree. I believe he was throwing Meirs to the wolves while acting to protect Bush's nominees (Meirs excluded, of course), and the Dems who joined were ceding their power of advice and consent. We got Roberts and Alito in exchange for that ploy. In short, Dems were had, McCain protected Bush's appointments by having Dems help in setting an illusory standard beyond which Bush was not likely to go, and the Judiciary Committee and Senate have rolled on their backs and had their tummies rubbed while Bush has been filling the judiciary with right winged ideologues. I don't want more of the same, thanks very much.

And I don't spend a lot of time trying to consider policy preferences of the candidates on individual issues and whether the judges they appoint will enact those preferences in their decisions - with 4 exceptions on the right, the current crop of justices have been independent for the most part (except on certain pretty predictable issues) and have not been as supportive of the policy preferences of the presidents who appointed them as most people seem to believe.

vad - LOL at the OR exit poll comment.

Will take these one at a time:

"Southslope fact checker" wrote:

>your post is full of lies and half truths
>A number of candidates were still on the Michigan ballot Clinton was not the only one.

In fact, the only delegates on the Michitgan ballot were either pledged to Hillary or were Uncommitted. Try using the Google. The truth is out there.

>The rest of your post is crap as well

How can I reply to such a brilliantly crafted and tightly focussed refutation of everything I said? I am humbled. No, awed, I am awed....

>If the Republicans win it will be because of ignorant fools like you

Well, I feel the same way about you. How's about this: we both vote for the ticket in November, maybe that will help.

And "Nick" wrote:

>I bet you even lied about your location. If you don't' live within a 2 mile radius of Fort Green your not in Brooklyn, your in Kings County.

To belabor the obvious, Brooklyn IS Kings County. And Fort Greene, for what it's worth (which is debatable, why Ft. G?) in fact starts about two miles north of here; I am right up against Green-Wood Cemetery, which is about as Brooklyn as you can get. Christ, why would anyone claim they were Slopers unless they were? Everyone hates Park Slope, the southern boundary of which has moved several times since I met my wife and moved here in '92.

And it's "you're", not "your", you dumb prick.
Were you awake during 4th grade English? Same question for "fact check."

SouthSloper
Getting Tired of This Crap
BROOKLYN, New York--as in, we need a Constitutional amendment to bring the Dodgers back.

"Now you need to be a good little girl and sit in the corner or I will go to the fridge and cut me a big slice of this chocolate cream pie that I happen to have...I will also wave my fork at the monitor every time I take a bite of this sinfully luscious cake....lol
Oh...fried okra too...(yes, this is my chickamauga btw)"

ROFL, Bear. Damn....I bet if I buy a frozen choc pie it won't even come close....

Damn that's bad news about Ted Kennedy. An amazing career.

Patsi,

It's so good, if I had to vote for W. to be President in a third term to continue getting this pie...I would vote for him with a chocolate smudge of the ballot...

Obama should have around 1970 tonight without anymore supers. He should have around 2011 after the rest of the primaries without anymore supers. So if MI and FL come into play and they figure out with to do with the delegates the math could change a bit. If they split the delegates in half then it won't make a difference. Then Obama needs about 15 more supers and it's all over.

Bear (who deserves every cake of every kind daily),

Gore couldn't beat Bush.

Neither could Kerry.

Magissd,

From what I've read, he appears to be a "overly invested into fitting in " type. However, isn't that a politician's stock in trade.

I see you took max's edit job. J/k It's all a matter of semantics.

I wish the Kennedy family well.

Now it all makes sense!! I heard a "rumor" many month s ago the Deval Patrick went to Kennedy with a deal.. if you get out in front and support BO.. I'll appoint anyone of your choice to fill your unexpired seat. At the time it made no sense,, Kennedy was always going to support BO because of the war.. Welfare Reform etc.. Normally, he would have stayed out of it as an elder statesman, like Biden and Feingold, until the end of primary contest. Now I understand why.. he knew he was ill. Rumor has it that Vicki Reggie is his choice.

http://www.michigandems.com/121007prs.html
6. The voter’s choice of candidate will be secret as in all public elections.

7. The Democratic ballot will have 6 choices:
Hillary Clinton
Christopher Dodd
Mike Gravel
Dennis Kucinich
Uncommitted

Try google? You do crack research as in on crack.

Character? You get a huge grant from daady Ayers, you go to Rezko, you have Khalidi give fund raisers, you join Trinity, you say you know about Auchi-Rezko but have NEVER met him or talked to him and then you distance yourself from the very people who got you rolling. Yeah right. Great character. It makes you kinda feel sad for Rezko that as his ship was sinking, Obama says, yeah he probably wanted a favor ans he directs him to the needed property, takes the part he needs at cost.......nice

And you only attack Wright after he attacks your credibility? You call him "just a Pastor"?

And Obama didn't throw his Grandma under the bus?

This is about judgment AND character and boy the Obama supporters will miss having those nasty Clintons to kick around.

Sorry to hear about Teddy too. He is the last of the three famous brothers. They did far more good than not. I hope we build a large wind mill farm in Ted's name, really, I'm serious. For all the good things Ted has done, I salute him and hope somehow miracles will help him live a longer life. As a Liberal, I can hardly vilify all of things that Ted has stood for. I think it a farce however, that Obama should carry the Kennedy's mantel. That would should both poor character and bad judgment.

"BROOKLYN, New York--as in, we need a Constitutional amendment to bring the Dodgers back."

NO DICE

The Dodgers are mine. They have been mine since before they moved to my hometown and if you think I'm giving them back, think again. This would mean civil war!!!!!

Mine Mine Mine

patsi,

Given the trashing of Appalachia by some people here...

It is more than appropriate to talk about how Senator Ted Kennedy directed his staff to saturate the region, understand it deeply and serve it as few other U.S. government officials since LBJ's War on Poverty have.

I'm searching for an article about this which ran so many years ago in the NYT Magazine section.

It might be good today to read that Salon article about the Democratic Party and Appalachia I posted earlier.

Kennedy has a malignant brain tumor

Ruth,

While I agree that desecrating the Flag is a vile thing, I don't think burning it to express a political thought is desecration. What further gets me is that most people I know who are against flag burning don't find offense when an American flag is put on paper plates, napkins or underwear. Then when you ask them if they stop their car to pick up a car flag that is lying on the side of the road, I get a blank stare in return.

Patsi,

If you live near a Costco, they do have a double chocolate cake that isn't bad...I think it's a frozen cake or maybe it's in their bakery section...

Anything new coming out of Oregon?

enough with the cake!!! now i'm starving
mmmmmmmchocalatecake...good.

Ally, Yes, I was referring to the Airplane pose and it would have been so hilarious if his phone had begun to ring during his little show! Of course, it would have been line 2...lol.

Burning the flag is, according to the Flag Code, the preferred way of disposing of unserviceable flags.

Max,

The more a read about McCain, the more I see a good fit with you two.

Another McCain Foreign Policy Gaffe

http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/05/mccains_savannah_press_confere.html

You know, many average Americans thought that Saddam was responsible for 9/11-- because people said or strongly implied it over and over again.

NEW THREAD

These days, life on the Clinton campaign staff must really suck.

Posted by: nash | May 20, 2008 12:38 PM

Well duh ! I don't think it would be a lot of fun to hear from every corner that the race is over and that the work being done on behalf of the candidate was fruitless, and furthermore damaging to the party.

It sucks I am sure... but there are plenty of places to point blame, and yes, including early on decisions made by the Clinton campaign itself.

jamie.....enjoyed reading your comments about how you feel about Hillary and how devoted you are....you put it exactly how i feel.....i'm just not that good at expressing it....

Primaries today:

Small, poorly educated, underdeveloped, former slave state: Hillary wins.

Large, sophisticated, economically diverse state, where people never owned slaves: Obama wins.

Posted by: nash | May 20, 2008 10:28 AM

Oregon is a state with a long history of Ku Klux Klan and racist activity. http://bluebook.state.or.us/cultural/history/history24.htm

So your attempt to point yet again that Hillary's supporters are racist is shot down the tube. Try again...

Here's a little something from Oregon -- I don't know if the word has gotten out there much -- but it is certainly disturbing that Obama didn't know squat about one of the biggest issues in Oregon for he last several decades -- the Hanford Nuclear Reservation -- which is right across the river in Washington and has already impacted the environment of Oregon. In the 1940s and 50s Hanford released radioactive iodides into the air and this created cancer clusters up and own the Columbia. This federal nucliear facility continues to be a source of problems -- surely someone should have briefed him on this -- but apparently not. Several people on the Oregonian blog pointed out that Obama voted for the Energy bill which would permit the building of more Trojan plants like that in Hanford.
http://blog.oregonlive.com/politics/2008/05/obama_stumped_by_question_abou.html

I jumped a head to post because if I wait until I get thru reading all this blog it will be late and time for bed.

I want to know if any of you have seen those two women who are leading a protest of NBC and sexism against Hillary?

I saw them several times on Fox News, the channel I love to hate and the only channel I will now watch because I always hated them.

Pogo, you talk about original intent, but when Obama memoed the answer to the question Yes, I support a total gun ban, could he possibly have over-looked that owning a gun was such a basic right to our Founders they didn't even put it into the Consitution? That is, the right to bare arms for self-defense was so self-evident and what they DID put into the COnsitution talked about the additional right to bare arms ro protect against the abuses of State and Federal Tyranny by allowing citizens to arm themselves with what militias used?

And at the time of the Consitution, abortion WAS carried out in the Colonies and considered a State concern, if of any concern at all because our Founders did not believe that the soul was inherently inside the fetus.

The Founders clearly did not mean for the Commerce Clause to be enlarged to such an extent and it was due to activist judges seeking a Federal mandate to effect changes that clearly were state problems. Just take a gander at what the Commerce Clause regulates.

If you want new powers you need a new Amendment. You can't try to solve new situations by simply reading new rights and powers into articles that do not contain them. For instance Roe is bad law. The issue should be a State concern and the present reading of the Commerce Clause would give the Fed the right to demand those to poor to travel to a pro-abortion state recieve State aid to get there and back. When you create bad law other laws based on the bad one crop up and it grwos. That is exactly what our Founders didn't not want to happen. It ruins the checks and balances. Now Roe is based on the fetus not being able to live outside the womb "naturally". But that word is always changing. It leaves the door open for a new attack which will come. It was based on judges trying to find a sical compromise and forgetting about the Constitutionality ot such a SCOTUS compromise nased on what Roe is based on.

Sorry, I don't take your spin on the gang of fourteen. Ginzberg and others were as left as Roberts was right. Alito has not shown hmself to be the horror the Left claimed he would be, nor has Roberts. I certainly would prefer different picks, but vilifying one side on this issue if partisan. I guess we can leave it as that. I do not however want a Nanny State with even more power with judges who can give their spin on what the Consitution really says. If you want to go to originialist intent, most Left wingers would vomit.

There is a large block out there on the Left and Right that see a huge danger in what many "Liberals" want SCOTUS to do. And one thing is to advance a color blind America where people advance on their merit and not the color of their skin or their ethnic back ground.

Just look at what Congress is trying to do now. They want organizations like MSNBC and CNN to have new journalistic protections. The Pelosi House version of the New Freedom of the Press Bills grants these new protections to "professional" jounalists and not to the very "people" protected by the orginalist intent and clear wording of the Constitution itself. Pelosi would love to have a SCOTUS jusge back her up. She would love new powers to regulate and new rights of privacy that are not in the Consitution including what one Congresscritter had in their freezer.

Okay, I made my point.

Jack, I know what crud is and you're shoveling it big time. Woods Fund is a fine organization. Are you claiming my FACTS about just one of those who recieved money did not support the Viet Cong and has not advanced the rhetoric I characterized? Are you telling us all that the activities the Woods Fund funds are all to help the disadvantaged as Wiki describes them? Did monies not in fact go to pro-Hamas supporters, those with a very strong Left Wing messages? And this money did not go to advance their causes and not to put food in the mouth of those starving or disadvantaged?

Sure Jack, that's the ticket. You slander me for stating such facts when I think your name pairs best with the stuff you're shoveling.

Jack took a cheap shot at me and no doubt he finds Ayers and ALL who Woods Fund supported to be representitive of the America we can believe in. All who say otherwise should be vilified, called names and rejected. Save your fury Jack. You'll need it for far bigger fish than me.

AllDidn't see your post about Kennedy,sorry
ruth

AllDidn't see your post about Kennedy,sorry
ruth

What are you Clinton people thinking? I see this "they're counting us out" all over this board. Well, the fact is, she is out. After tonight there are not enough delegates left. Even if she won 100% of the pledged delegates after tonight, she'd still need nearly every single uncommitted super delegate to catch up with Obama. This is what is frustrating. If the situation were reversed, Obama would have been pressured out of the race ages ago. Why? Because it's mathematically impossible to catch up.

In all honesty, this race has been over since March, after Obama's super run of states in February. What's most frustrating is that the Clinton campaign is deliberately appealing to the ignorant faction of the party - those people who actually believe she's got a shot. Her campaign isn't solely to blame, though, the media also keeps her alive, given her high-profile status.

Remember too that Clinton's own people thought the race would be over in February. The notion that Clinton actually has an investment in letting all the voters "speak" is nonsense.

She only stays in now to cause trouble for the democrats. This last minute, gender card argument is pathetic. Rather than fessing up to her own largely negative, race-bating, fear-inducing, unethical campaigning, which ultimately lost her the nomination, she's got to suddenly blame sexism. Yeah. Right.

Anyway, I hope you Clinton supporters aren't all dupes. At what point will you be willing to look at the math (not the magical math numbers Clinton will no doubt throw out tonight) and admit that she's lost and that she needs to drop out?

This isn't about principles for her, it's about power.

Good Lord.

Dear Slop:

Not interested in BS from Mich Dem Pty website, only Hillary put up delegate slates. Trace votes for other/withdrawn candidates don't elect delegates anyway; Obama supporters, those that bothered, voted for Uncommitted slates.

Once BHO goes over the majority-even-with-Fla/Mich, he can be all gracious and seat the damn delegations.

Although I have been on the Internet since late in 1993, I have not gotten involved in a flamewar since about 1998. But having spent four months calling voters in primary states can set one on edge. Jamie, you can keep the Dodgers; I guess that boat's sailed, as they said in the Twentieth Century, still.

It does astonish me, the speed with which people turn to the crudest forms of slander and verbal abuse. It used to take us weeks. Is there some inbuilt mechanism that prevents everyone from using the Nazi Comparison (also known as the Nuclear Option, in that it foreclosed, or once did, all further discussion in a thread)? I see everything else, people talk so hatefully, like the "Rethuglicans", the Michelle Malkins and so forth, like Rush Limbaugh's ideological children making their messes. (That doesn't include those of you who actually work for those people.)

This is all ridiculous, this snarling anger from people who, check me on this, weren't even aware this site existed three or two years ago, or maybe as recently as December? Suddenly, you get 300 vicious snarling attacks on candidates, or people who dare to write about them, and maybe thirty or forty rational or even partially rational (like mine) posts.

I actually expected someone to attack Teddy when his name came up. But apparently even the Republicans, at least the ones in the Senate, can afford to be nice about him now. Teddy Kennedy's horrible situation at least, let us hope, will make everyone think again about the Democratic Party, here about two weeks before the 40th anniversary of his brother's death in Los Angeles, and whatever it's supposed to still stand for, help everyone reorient themselves away from this insane primary campaign season, gradually, and toward...November. Remember November?

So if you're really more scared of the Weathermen than of the people to Pat Buchanan's right, then you're not going to vote for Obama. Fine. But everyone needs to calm down. We've been in the Twilight Zone ever since...where did the 2000 election go so horribly wrong? Southern state, can't remember...