What happened to the posts after 8:35pm last night?
I didn't expect Obama to do very well in last nights primary since it's a Klan state and after all a black man on the ballot with a white person is not expected to win in a racist state.
Still I congratulate the Hillary supporters on her win.
Tucker is one of the worst trouble makers out there.
His insinuations are much worse than lies. (It is much easier to point out the truth than untangle it.)
Because Tucker claims the "media" supports Obama - all the jackass things the pundits say can also be tied to Obama. (And then he proceeds to say some of the most despicable things on the airwaves.)
And let's be clear. There were plenty of states Hillary did not campaign hard in where she knew she had no shot.
Obama went to WV (and shot a mean game of pool I might add). And it wasn't as if he was sitting on his ass the rest of the time. Obama is campaigning in the battle ground states in order to cut off McCain's tour at the pass.
(And I think he did not make a late speech because he did not want to steal any of HRC's thunder.)
I Wil say this once and only once, that myspace page is someone's sick idea of a joke! If whoever did it thinks it will intimidate me sorry, wont work, is there no low trick you obama supporters will resort to? I never had a myspace page and now onward towards victory for Hillary
Sen. Clinton may have taken the center at the expense of the base, but isn't that what any Democratic candidate will have to do in order to win in November?
Nobody is saying it is a "game changer," dog. This game has actually been over a long time. The supers HAD to give this to Obama no matter what. Even if he desecrates a cross, he'll be the candidate. The old boy network picked their candidate, put him in a "change" mask, and give him the nomination.
Oh,and Anon -- I knew you'd be taking aim at working class, rural America with your usual mentally challanged world view. Klan state! Nazis! Aliens! Black helicopters!
Any candidate that is close to winning the Presidential nomination and had the kind of results they got in WVA should be embarrassed by it. There is no excuses for that one.
I respect you a lot and agree with you that Hillary appeals to a centrist
group of Democrats and that, sadly, she is probably down for the count. But, I don't think that the real base of Dems is the ultra-liberal Obama elites.
For the last eight years, certain factions of the Dem party have been moving more to the far left, succeeding in nominating unelectable candidates who appeal to the Huffington-Post set. The neo-libs are louder, have more money, and are generally more educated, but not always. Their voices drown out the true majority of Dems who often are bullied by the Darth Axelrods and Howard Deans.
What is happening this year is that many young, first time voters are
charmed by the media blitz and bling, bling that the Obama campaign has
presented. I don't believe that most of these kids actually know much about
the policies of Obama--they are not what I would call the base of the Dem
Party. But, for this year, they are voting in droves for Obama.
I don't believe Hillary Clinton is losing this race because she has miscalculated her base or for any serious mistakes in her campaign. She is
losing because the media trashed her and mocked Bill, painting them as racists in order to pull in 95% of the African American vote. Also, sexism played a part in marginalizing Senator Clinton, too. Pundits created a daily hostile environment for Hillary, whether on the internet or on television.
The Dem elites may win the race against Hillary Clinton but for the third
time in a row, they will probably lose the Presidency.
Heather: you absolutely did have a myspace page and no Obama supporter put that thing up there. Your first misstatement of the day and it's only 7:13 a.
If you took it down, that is your choice and your prerogative.
It included a slide show with nice photos of a graduation ceremony from Notre Dame College (congrats there, if that's true) and next slide show in queue was of your purported masturbation fantasies.
I'm told all the Notre Dame grads are doing that on their Myspace pages this year. De rigeur.
=========
Heather: I could care less what is up on your Myspace page. Free speech and a free personal expression. Have no problem with porn, if it is how you chose to express your unique personality and gifts. It appears you went to some effort creating the page, and you have a nice eye for composition and color. So do admire your creativity there.
Isn't a little early to be fighting? As I said before , it's not about who supports who here. Some people think others are just jerks. That's how I see it.
Craig it's a rare morning I agree with you 100% this morning. You can't win the general without winning the nomination. Down for the count indeed! Hillary also failed to realized that the game could be played with a different set of rules this time around, America is ready to try something new. Put a fork in her, she's done.
Why are you guys being mean to Heather? You just can't be happy enough that your candidate won? You best be thinking about how to pull him through the general election instead of using your time and energies harassing women who are Clinton supporters.
Some people don't like each other here , Sturge. We all know that. We're just more direct in expressing that dislike now. We gave up being subtle about it awhile ago.
"She is losing because the media trashed her and mocked Bill, painting them as racists in order to pull in 95% of the African American vote. Also, sexism played a part in marginalizing Senator Clinton, too. Pundits created a daily hostile environment for Hillary, whether on the internet or on television. "
the people in Iowa are mostly white, and the people in W V are mostly white.......something must have happened in between, eh? an inference which has been drawn by mo dowdy, for one......
On my other group , someone went to the profile page of someone nobody liked and wrote up a bogus profile on her page a few years ago. This person who did it thought it was pretty funny , apparently. But , I knew the person they did this to well enough to know that it was not their own work. It was a bogus profile.
Alicia K: Heather has put up some brutally nasty posts that border on psychotic.
I would suggest cruising through some earlier Crawfords List threads -- you can use the "find on page" function at "EDIT" on internet toolbar -- look at what Heather has put up over the past few weeks.
Substitute Hillary or Clinton or whomever you admire for what she's said about Obama and his supporters.
And pay note to the meanness towards Republicans and those she sees as the enemy. Some cruel and disturbing imagery and language.
No one is harrassing Heather. I just called her on a lie, plain and simple, which she is trying to blame on some grand conspiracy.
The early voters got all excited about the new kid on the block. Like a consumer they liked the packaging, I need one because everyone else has one. Then in the last few weeks they opened the package and were not that pleased what they found inside. Some found it pretty empty, not much there. So now what do the supers do?
But do you have kids? Do you ever hear what people do on myspace or even on facebook?
Ever read about how false pages get set up to mess with people... and not just by teenagers?
Someone I know had a page like "Heather's" set up by someone she had dumped with reason. It caused her a lot of hurt. But very little real damage as no one who knew her believed she was a high dollar bop escort.
False personal pages get created all the time using cut and paste... most often from unlovely motivations.
I went to look.
Did you notice that person's ID reads "married", the city is NYC and the state is... Alabama?
I will add that Heather on her blog and at this site has a distinct writing style which seems to be a healthy part of her identity. That myspace page hasn't any.
If I thought it was her creation, I'd agree with you.
While anything's possible and I have no proof... I say it's a fake.
Again, that's my opinion just as what you expressed was yours.
Go take on the world as you always do, fighting hard and fairly.
Corey: if that happened to Heather, she has my sympathy and I wish her success in having the authorities track down whoever put up the myspace page, which one accessed off a link to her blog.
Once upon a time (called the 70's) there was a young actor working in NYC who appeared in a lot of plays at the Circle in the Square in midtown. (There was one downtown, too.) He specialized then in playing English working class blokes.
Ted, who ran the place (into the ground), liked that actor as did a group of women from Connecticut who formed a theater club dedicated to him.
When they went to see a play called "Spokes", the Times ran a nice piece about them as well as the young guy whose name was John Lithgow.
In today's NYT there's a review of a terrific one man Lithgow show (directed by one of a bunch of great directors 'round here, Jack O'Brien) about his family... and storytelling. Which is something every family does from generation to generation.
It's gotten ugly here. People have changed. The people here are gonna believe what they wanna believe. Be it about other posters or the candidates. As they say, believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. I knew a guy who got banished from a website I frequent . After he got banished I checked his profile page. Here's what I found on it:
Dang. Craig, it ate my post, again. (It was most eloquent and a great loss to all, I assure you.) Back to cut & paste from Word for me.
Still wondering why BO supporters think the only reason people don't vote for their guy is race? Could it be that he comes off as arrogant, insincere, lacks the ability to illuminate us all with details of his plan for "change" and seems about as competent to hold office as W? Could it be that people don't want to vote for an unknown & now, an unknown with some uncomfortable associations? Nope, just play your little race card. Very simple & you get to blame someone else instead of taking a good, hard look at your candidate.
Great Hillary victory yesterday - wish it had come earlier and more often.
AP, I'm sorry, you're wrong. WV is not a Klan state. There is certainly racism here - sort of like in NH. It had a modest Klan presence 50 years ago, mostly in the southern coalfields down in the part of the state near Kentucky and Tennessee, but there is no evidence of the Klan here now. Sounds like sour grapes and your typical BS to me. I'd wager you can find much more of a KKK presence among the shitkickeing rednecks in the northern part of your state than the southern part of mine.
vad, told you the voters would come out in big numbers.
Heather, FWIW, I never saw the link or the Myspace site - stuff like that is blocked at work, and I don't go looking for that sort of stuff at home. Plus, if it is like what was described by some who dislike you and your opinions here, it strains credibility to say the least. Kill the link and don't worry about it.
profmarcia, I agree about the media slant you point out, but I don't agree that Hillay's camaign isn't guilty of gross miscalculations - failing to organize and get a higher percentage of the delegates in caucus states while Obama ran rampant there was a miscalculation that has likely cost her the nomination.
You're right on!! This is a coronation of Obama now.
WRITE IN HILLARY IN NOV.. GO HILLARY
Dean, Kennedy et al have sold out the heart and soul of the larger democratic base for the "new" paradigm.. blacks, far left elites, and college kids. The hard working white men and women have been officially classified as a non factor in their "new" 50 state strategy for the electoral college.
41 point victory in WV and a look at Clinton wins in large swing states is still a powerful message to send to super delegates today.. must be some significant nail biting going on. I think the new coalition is a loser
that was always her risk. To win the general election she might not win the nomination.
Obama has been shortsighted with his campaigning. He views winning the nomination at the only goal.
Last night it came back to bite him with a vengence. I know of counties here in Missouri that have an active Klan , where Obama did better than he did in WV. It is hard to find a county in Missouri where he fell under 30%. WV is a result of his campaign messages and choices. He could have done much better in WV. It is all the stupid mistakes he made over the last 2 months that has brought him down.
They showed interviews where the people said that they would never vote for a black man.
They also stated that 27 % I believe it was would never vote for a black person. Outside of that I believe there is still a lot of racism in the rural areas there.
And your probably right that there are more racists in my state, but like you said they must be further north than I am.
As to Heathers website I looked at it and there is what appears to be a link to a myspace page. The link was inactive though when I went to her site.
I did a look at the page source and found the link and did check it out last night after it was mentioned she had a myspace page and it was porn. Unless someone hacked her blog account I don't see how anyone could have put that in her template though it is entirely possible.
How many of your predictions for what he will achieve ASAP as Prez will get sawed off his platform today?
So far of the five you cited, he already canned one -- fossil fuel dependence.
Remember, he snuck in his prophet like status as the Lord of Liquid Coal in KY without telling the press he was contradicting himself to grab hisself some of them bitter votes.
Or maybe his seven extra states reflect alternative universes where he can be for the things he is so nobly against.
Or maybe fossil fuels are like cigarettes to him -- hard to handle, hard to quit --
Which makes him, well, merely human and prone to not always keeping his expansive promises.
I think Dean advantaged the Obama campaign in all those caucus states. My theory is he's been setting up his 50 state strategy since 2004. I remember reading he went down South and then out West to open office/outposts etc. Then he let the Deanics and the power of his internet operation from 2000 kick in to advantage BO. I believe Obama is the invention of the Dean, Kennedy et al. if not hand picked.
I have been troubled by this primary election since kennedy had his tantrum in Feb. Something didn't feel right. Hillary polls very well against mcCain in the electoral college and any reasonable person or super delegate can see that.
So this proud democrat will not be coming home to the party in Nov.
The problem is that the Democratic party's "Base" is not liberal. The party's movers, shakers, power brokers, and activists are "liberal". The majority of the voters likely to vote Democratic (except for the extremely important AA vote) is going to Hillary. This race has stayed as close as it has because he has gotten that core AA vote, the smaller "elite" vote, and the new "idealist" crowd that he has brought in who may or may not stay around. She has the older AA vote and the broad mass of the populist, working class, somewhat conservative branch.
For votes, that is about as close to 50/50 as you can get and no matter who finally gets the nomination, there had better be a lot of making nice going on.
"I did a look at the page source and found the link and did check it out last night after it was mentioned she had a myspace page and it was porn. Unless someone hacked her blog account I don't see how anyone could have put that in her template though it is entirely possible."
Who frequents this site and has IT experience and is a psycho? And who has pals who are cyber stalkers and have tried to control this site...
Bowwow, I agree with your skepticism of the new coalition and the planned redrawing of the electoral math - the polls in the states that are expected to switch don't support its success.
BTW, to put the Clinton victory in perspective, she won every county in WV. WV was a Clinton mirror of Obama's Hawaii results - of course she had no ties to the state.
Who frequents this site and has IT experience and is a psycho? And who has pals who are cyber stalkers and have tried to control this site...Questions
Questions, I've been trying to figure this out too.
I don't know much about hacking but it's scary to think that if you speak your mind, there's an enemy here.
Corey..... I believe that Obama will be the Democratic nominee.... but I think it's finally come to dawn on the Obama supporters on this blog that he may indeed have a huge problem come the general election..... namely... a big group of Clinton supporters who will not vote for him....
and I think as that realization turns into a reality come this fall..... the Obama supporters will get much nastier...... I suggest you ignore them.....
it's a beautiful day up here...... gonna party hardy today......... YEEEEHAAAW!
"As a candidate running a close second, Hillary would normally have every right to complete the primary process, which runs into early June. Calls for her to drop out of the race began months ago and were certainly premature. But at this point, even with strong wins in Appalachia, Hillary has no true rationale for her candidacy, other than her inflamed gender and her putative Washington "experience" -- which has yet to produce a tangible legislative achievement. Her persistence is now keyed to her hope (chillingly close to a curse) that her rival will make a major gaffe or be besmirched by some unknown past scandal. And her message maliciously undermines the presumptive nominee by targeting his presumed weakness in the general election. But the gifted Obama is just getting started on the national stage, while his opponent, John McCain, is a clumsy, fusty, narcissistic waffler whose party is in disarray and revolt against him."
Oh. Super DELEGATES! My bad. BTW , the Obama rally starts at 7:00 tonight. The doors open at 5:00. No bags will be allowed. The Van Andel Arena holds 12,000+ people. A full house is expected. Too bad I have my Mom's b-day party tonight and then the Red Wings are on at 8:00. If he could have waited a day , I would have a free evening.
I believe that Obama will be the Democratic nominee.... but I think it's finally come to dawn on the Obama supporters on this blog that he may indeed have a huge problem come the general election..
RebelliousRenee
Renee, that huge problem is the so called "working class"..
Way back, they used to be called the backbone of America.
Now they're just a contituency that Obama doesn't need.
Corey......what's all this I hear about super deli gates? What was wrong with the old deli gates? what, is someone going to break in and steal some corned beef?
More spin from the keyboard of Jamie. Obama scores more than 90% with the black vote. What older blacks are you talking about supporting Hillary? And yet again you just skip right over the fact that Obama has gotten more votes and more states. Why don't start trying to figure out why Hillary has won so few states, no caucuses, and can barely pay her bills. How come that silent base you that you believe is Hillary's has not shown up for her where it matters? Other than the post menopausal hysterics and the under educated she really doesn't do so well.
Instead of trying to tear down the nominee why don't start trying to figure out why Hillary can't get the support of those under 55, and anyone with a secondary education.
Well Jack , I didn't really care for that guy. So , when I saw that picture , I laughed. I thought , "Wow , somebody hated that guy enough to put up a picture like that!" Then I thought , "Maybe he did that himself? Just tell tell us what we could all do." I guess it's all in how you look at it.
It has been amusing and disgusting to watch the morning shows this A.M. They had a "plan" for
Clinton and it just didn't work out exactly how they imagined it would.
The "plan" has been successful enough to do irrepairable damage to Clinton. Not in the "plan", is when the people started waking up from their hypnotic stupor and smelling the coffee. Hillary hung in long enough for people to really get to know her and see that she is not the monster that the Repubs have discribed her as.
The people are also starting to realize that just maybe someone they don't know much about will be running this country. Yes they woke up a little too late for Clinton but maybe too early for Obama.
Many are banking on the fact that the Repubs are so unpopular that the Dems can push anyone thru. I am not sure that is a workable plan. I think Hillary supporters are some of the least politically naive. We are not easily manipulated. We have been paying attention all this time. More of the Obama supports are the one who are new to politics.
And please stop trying to blame racism. It is getting old and only works on those who want to look cool. Yes there are a lot of "isms" going on here. I think racism is the least of the "isms" and I am pleased with that.
" traveling later today and have to get my pups to their dog dude ranch."
OMG! Dog -- Thank you! Thank you! You have just made today's potentialy horrible lunch with two Republicans bearable! They almost always end up making some snotty comment about the Democrats being a party of welfare mothers. Now I can say, "No, no, no! In the new party, Dem wives spend their days driving pets to dude ranches."
And the fellow who made the film which glorified the Klan -- which the stubborn idealist Woodrow Wilson ADORED beyond any film (or play or book) -- next made the monumental film Intolerance about the destructive history of human prejudice.
Fact check,
Dog isn't married, she lives with her aging mother who suffered from a stroke. She's boarding her dogs in order that she can help a friend move cross country. Which of your brooms are you riding to lunch today Patsi?
" What older blacks are you talking about supporting Hillary?"
It is okay that you spend most of your time in an alternate reality. You don't have a right to alternate facts. She has a long, long list of older black endorsers and her voters include a large percentage of the seniors and older civil rights activists (you know that 15 - 30 percent of AA he doesn't get). I play cards with them three times a week and they think the kid is nice and they are proud of him, but they trust Hillary.
I copied the link from the view source info which anyone can do by right clicking on the page your on and it went to the myspace page which was a porn page. Anyone can copy a link from the view source page info, but can not alter the template its on.
Only the blog owner can change information on their template, no one else. Unless someone hacked her blog account she's the only one who can put that link in it.
So the link I copied and pasted into my url came from her view source info look.
I said it was possible that someone could have hacked her account, but again only she can edit her template, no one else can unless it was hacked.
ap, as I said, there is racism here. If you find a state where it isn't, let me know and I'll be packing to move there. (Same goes for stupidity, poverty, illiteracy...) It's the unfounded Klan state accusation that bugs me and makes your "analysis" look like it is nothing more than rantings of an obsessed madman. Had Obama made a respectable showing here, I doubt that you would have been flinging those accusations - I don't recall you making them about MS, AL, VA, the Carolinas or GA, and they actually do have the Klan and active, angry racism that still exists, just as in TN & AK. Racism is not a distinguishing factor between the HRC states won and the states BHO won, so drop the gratutitous innuendos - they just reflect the racism in your candidate's campaign.
1) As one Hillary supporter said, It ain't over till the lady in the pant suite says it's over
2) No matter what happens - it was fun to watch Obomie get his clock cleaned in West Virginia LOL
3) Guess they were so embarrassed by their shellacking last night they decided they should immediately dispatched Michelle Obama to Puerto Rico -- I guess they hope her message of negativity and hate will resonate with voters there.
hahaha
OK - back to my paper - it's due in 11 hours ahhhhhhh!
"The people are also starting to realize that just maybe someone they don't know much about will be running this country. Yes they woke up a little too late for Clinton but maybe too early for Obama. "
This is at the core of the party's problem at present. Sen. Obama was put forward as the darling of media and power brokers hoping that none of the inadequacies would show through the great make up job. Clinton hung in there past when the coronation was expected and some of the Obama warts are starting to show.
I'm not giving up on her, but if he is the nominee a great deal will hinge on the VP and other surrounding supporters. McCain is a weak candidate and the Dem nominee is likely to win, but only if the that great mass in the middle doesn't believe that they will be replacing a Republican incompetent with a Democratic incompetent.
"Why don't start trying to figure out why Hillary has won so few states, no caucuses, and can barely pay her bills. How come that silent base you that you believe is Hillary's has not shown up for her where it matters? Other than the post menopausal hysterics and the under educated she really doesn't do so well.
Instead of trying to tear down the nominee why don't start trying to figure out why Hillary can't get the support of those under 55, and anyone with a secondary education."
Brian: The popular vote totals are separated by approximately 1% of the vote (if you include Florida). If you include Michigan, it's less than that. Do you really think that of the nearly 17,000,000 people who've voted for her match your vitriolic description? Your attempts to marginalize millions and millions of voters does not support your candidate's message of Hope and Unity.
It is way too early to fight with you. Go get all your own facts. I'm talking practicalities and you are talking idealogies
Did you watch the Tavis Smiley conference that Obama didn't bother to attend. There were both Clinton and Obama supporters there. The applause was about equal.
Just because supporters like you and the media call all of Hillary's supporters "racist" doesn't make it true, and saying they are all "white" isn't true either.
pogo in exit polls 23% of your fellow West Virginians admitted to race being a factor in their vote. Staggeringly high number. Almost a quarter of your people are admitting to being racists, don't you find that troubling?
Oh and just to mention the caucuses. There were a lot of people who felt they "had" to vote for Sen. Obama because it was public and they didn't want people from their churches seeing them vote for Sen. Clinton.
The amount of intimidation going on in the AA community during the caucuses was not pretty.
Before anyone starts accusing someone here of hacking you better be careful because you may be opening yourself up to a defamation lawsuit.
I know because talk like your suggesting was done about my brother and right now not only is a lawsuit pending, but the FBI is looking into also because of the words used.
"DNC leadership tell the superdelegates that they should follow the wish of the voters. How many House members have directly placed party politics above the wishes of the very people they represent."
Yeah yeah yeah Jamie, you made a claim, back it up. I believe his average level of support among the AA vote is around 92% I could be wrong about this, but not by much. I realize as a Clinton supporter you think you can just say something and people will accept it as fact, like ducking sniper fire, I was voting for diplomacy, (Bill) I was against the war, I never had sex with that woman. Jamie the jig is up, people aren't falling for it anymore.
I'm confused: She supposedly doesn't have the delegates, right? But he doesn't have the delegates, either. So how does he win the nomination again? It's hard to be a Democratic these days when so many of us are so stupid. It's like having your parents and your friends together at the same time, and you really pray your mom doesn't say anything embarrassing and that your dad will keep his pants on. I hate that feeling.
What a great night for the divided government movement.
Does anybody think Obama is going to do better with working class Democrats in Ohio then he did across the river in WV
Put Ohio in the McCain column
That gives him 269 electors only one more to go.
Woohoo
Other good news for the divided government movement.
CNN projects that Democrat Travis Childers defeated Republican Greg Davis in a Tuesday special election for an open congressional seat in northern Mississippi.
This is a seat the Democrats lost in 94.
The real good news is Obama was not a negative although the National Republican party tried to tie him to the local Dem.
hey
A McCain presidency
With a dominating congress
The best of both worlds
As I said last night
Maybe the Democrats will be able to tell that weasel Lieberman to take a hike
Friends don't let friends vote a straight ticket
Vote for divided government
Vote McCain
Who did you all support in the primary 4 years ago? Were you strongly for your candidate? And if Kerry was not your choice- how disgruntled were you?
To me, whoever is the nominee- this reminds me more of 2000 when I knew people who were going to vote (and did vote) for Nader. The refrain was "there is not difference between Bush and Gore anyway". I remember objecting that Bush would be a horrible choice- due to the supreme court- and the environment, and my friend- a liberal environmentalist- said "well maybe things have to get really bad before they get better.
So, here we are with a war with 4000 Americans dead, many more irreparably mentally hurt and physically maimed. God knows how many Iraqis our weapons have murdered, and the occupation continues with no end in sight.
We have record deficits, billions more a week-
no progress on health insurance, gas at 4 dollars a gallon, and no work on climate change.
We have Sam Alito and the youthful John Roberts.
We don't have habeus corpus.
When this is over.....whether it is Obama or Clinton- the differences between Clinton or Obama and McCain will be very clear.
To my eyes, if one really cares about any of the issues I wrote of above, the choice will be very apparent and very clear and very easy. Just because one feels strongly in a primary, does not dictate that they will vote against the other in the general.
A vote for MCCain - or not to vote at all- is to continue to Bush legacy and endless occupation, an even more conservative supreme court. Les protections for women's reproductive rights.
By the way, I have no doubt that Hillary would work incredibly hard for Obama and vice versa,
But they choice will be yours.
As I said racism exists here - it's existed in each of the 6 states I've lived in (in this election, half went for BHO, half for HRC). It does trouble me. That is not my beef with AP. And 18% of voters in your state said the same thing about race being a factor - and I could be mistaken, but that represents about eight times as many racists in what by all accounts should be a much more open and enlightened state considering that 57% of N'yawkers IDed themselves as liberal while only 34% of WVers did. And in NY, 25% said gender was a factor while in unenlightened WV, only 18% did. I assume that troubles you.
The owner of the private page -- which was the link on her blog I clicked this morning for the first time -- was "heathergobragh".
The public page did use an email address of hers on the myspace search. Its ID was NOT heathergobragh.
But thanks, as always, for the sanctimony. It goes as well with your aspersions and visions as it does with George W. Bush's.
Good luck to your brother.
But it's kind of weird given your hatred of this government and its abuses of law on every level that you of all people would use the FBI as a threat....
As I said racism exists here - it's existed in each of the 6 states I've lived in (in this election, half went for BHO, half for HRC). It does trouble me. That is not my beef with AP. And 18% of voters in your state said the same thing about race being a factor - and I could be mistaken, but that represents about eight times as many racists in what by all accounts should be a much more open and enlightened state considering that 57% of N'yawkers IDed themselves as liberal while only 34% of WVers did. And in NY, 25% said gender was a factor - a staggering higher number, to steal your phrase - while in unenlightened WV, only 18% did. I assume that troubles you.
Brian: I mentioned it because it was only by 7 votes (and I believe they are doing a recount). If we all lived in La La Land, when reading your posts one would think Obama will win the nomination by a veritable landslide–and the numbers simply don't match your portrayal.
However... you've got to admit... given your complete distrust of the government and particularly the Justice Department's forsaking of the Constitution...
It's kind of odd that you of all people on this planet to summon the FBI in your warning about legal actions.
Kind of odd... weird.
Makes me wonder where you're actually coming from.
Brian would you please post your vitae. I am really tired of your insulting anyone who supports Clinton. I don't believe the BS that Clinton supporters are less educated. It seems many of the polls are way off.
I know a couple of people who support Obama who are educated but they also haven't followed the news because it is just "too depressing" for them.
Since 70-80% of the AA support Obama, are you saying they are the most educated group? I don't want to sound racist but I don't think so.
I have two post graduate degrees and retired after 23 years teaching nursing at a locaL university. I am now a NP. I am a die hard Clinton supporter.
AP, since most don't know who most people are here, I would not be too concerned about defamation - except of craig, jamie, heather, brian and others who actually use their real identities to post their comments. I think a judge would RFLHAO as he dismissed a suit for example by AnonParanoid against 9/11 survivor (sort of) for defamation. Even if the suit were allowoed to go forward (would it be in disguises and sealed?), damages are always a problem.
I know because talk like your suggesting was done about my brother and right now not only is a lawsuit pending, but the FBI is looking into also because of the words used.
God Bless
'as opposed to calling people nazis and klan members...
A refresher in the slander and libel laws is in order.
No names were mentioned and yet someone sprang to your mind immediately..
The West Virginia Chamber of Commerce has asked the FBI to look into your charges
How does the 80-90% AA population affect the education level statistics for Obama supporters? Are we getting a mean or median education level? I want your expert explanation of that.
Facts are fact ct, Hillary's base is made up of people of over 55 and the less educated. Them the facts, deal with em.
Posted by: BrianInNYC | May 14, 2008 10:01 AM
I am happy to welcome the voters Obama has rejected.
That describes over 70% of the electorate in the general. The candidate who better figue out how to deal with it is Obama., Unless of course you think Donna Brazile is right and a coaltition of African Americans (less than 10% of the available voters and "wealthy eggheads (may be 15% of available votes) is enough to win. And young people are 14%
of the current vote....40%
Before anyone starts accusing someone here of hacking you better be careful because you may be opening yourself up to a defamation lawsuit.
Posted by: anon-paranoid
Just another example of someone trying to use fear to shut us up. Don't say anything controversial folks.
stephanie Tubb-Jones on MSNBC now speaking for Hillary. She is hardly alone. Maya Angelou, Tavis Smiley and Maxine Waters have been a particularly strong voices.
Congressional Black Caucus and state officials breakdown
9/11 - Thanks for the info about the Lithgow play. You mentioned director Jack O'Brian. I am pleased to say that he has been associated with the Old Globe here in San Diego for many, many years and has staged many fine productions, several of which have gone on to Broadway.
All the facts Brian bandies make me think of his personal favorite --
Pot is not a drug.
I believe strongly in legalizing (not decrimalizing) medical marijuana.
I work for that the same as I worked for years to help set up an NGO to run umbilical cord stem cell donations and research.
For the record... Bill Clinton did his worst to ruin the medical marijuana clubs.
And Bill Clinton succeeded.
Bill Clinton hurt a lot of people that way with a lot of conditions that marijuana -- as a drug -- helps to relieve in both the condition itself and the treatments those conditions require.
It may not have the same stink to it as blocking stem cell research.
But it was just as political a ploy to me.
I bring that up because pot is a very, very helpful drug for many people including, of course, cancer patients. But one with so many difficult to dangerous side effects.
Among the people I know with lots of cancer, there are more than a few to whom pot becomes a necessary drug.
The young man with that near-fatal sarcoma really benefitted from pot as a medication for both the cancer pain AND to relieve the nausea.
To him it was a drug which helped him in a whirlwind of very harsh treatments.
He also dumped all of it the moment it was out of treatment because of how it messed up his mind and emotions in ways he felt were just as distressing as the cancer.
He also did not like that he needed increasing amounts of marijuana to be effective the more he would use it.
To him... and those other people... it is a medication with a lot of difficult side effects.
Of course, minds and bodies are different, subjective experiences.
Not one of them goes near it when they are not in chemo because of those psychological and emotional costs.
Because it absolutely is a drug -- the same as (as the young man said) the high dose ativan and steroids we both have had administered by IV to deal with the out of control nausea our harsh chemos induced.
Pot is definitely a drug. Thank goodness for it. And may there be a medical marijuana NGO to administer its distribution in whatever next administration is elected.
Hillary Clinton has said a number of things. The most recent is from July 2007 -- that she opposes medical marijuana raids and will end them as President. She has yet to recant that remark.
In the same article McCain fudges and fudges, diminishes its uses and makes it a state by state issue despite the endless federal raids on the homes of critically and terminally ill patients.
So... it ain't exactly a lovely set of prospects.
But, if she is to be taken at her word, the least damaging of the three candidates is Hillary Clinton.
"I didn't expect Obama to do very well in last nights (sic)primary since it's a Klan state and after all a black man on the ballot with a white person is not expected to win in a racist state." - anon
Posting ignorant and bigoted remarks followed by "God Bless" still doesn't make it acceptable.
Sen. Obama would be proud to see how his supporter is following the rallying cry to bring people together and overcome the politics of division.
Obama has run a superb campaign, there is no doubt about that. The bean counters that work for him should be well rewarded for their expertise. But please, let's not pretend that his victory represents a mandate in the Democratic party, OK? Enough with the old people, bitter women and hicks characterizations. It demeans the person hurling the insults and it demeans the process.
ct, I could be wrong, but Hillary's base appears to include both older and working class voters. That really doesn't sound too objectionable to me. The exit poll from Indiana is an interesting one to look at - it's a middle American state, close contest between the two, and as you might expect, get beyond race (Obama gets far more of the racially motivated voters than Clinton, btw) and the differences between the voters who form the base for each candidate aren't as stark as Brian suggests.
Brian: It is a good idea to avoid sweeping generalizations in debate. I am certain you do not really mean to state categorically that the only people voting for Hillary are those over 55 and the "less educated." Just a bit of hyperbole, perhaps?
I can speak only for my own circle of acquaintances ... primarily single, ranging in age from about 32 to 65 -- both male and female, all with degrees from decent universities, most professional people ... among them only one Obama supporter, a gentleman who belongs to a new age type of church and who strongly believes that conflict is never an option. His work involves lecturing on conflict resolution and he is very supportive of Obama.
As to your question about campaign contributions ... many supporters of Sen Clinton are, indeed, low income folks... Although the Obama campaign likes to tout the small individual donations they receive, various watchdog groups report that more than 50% of his donations are bundled donations from high income donors who work in certain industries and organizations known to have supported Sen Obama throughout his career.
I do not seek to denigrate Sen Obama on this account, merely to point out that he, too, is a politician with a story to tell that might not quite square with reality.
But please, let's not pretend that his victory represents a mandate in the Democratic party, OK?
Ally
yeah, but Ally. How is he going to win the General Election because he ran a good primary? The rules will make more sense in the General. I can't understand why the DNC would slant this process. It's actually a tool for them to find out who would be most likely to win against McCain. It seems odd to slant the evaluation process that was set up to get at the truth. Maybe this is why the dems keep losing (except WJC).?
So 911 you are saying that Brian is a pot head?? That's alright by me and it does explain why he seems to be here all the time and not working. Do you work Brian? Are you currently working for Obama?
PS. I recently sandwiched a vertebrae and broke a few ribs trying to ski down some stairs. I am on the mend. Besides the pain, I was a closet cigerette smoker and had to quit 12 days ago. I am full of steam looking for something to melt and this seems to be my only resource. Sorry.
hacked off, good one - RFLMAO. I personally know the WVCoC executive director and many of the members of its board (since I sit on 2 of its committees) and I can assure you that the WVCoC would not ask the FBI to look into anything that does not directly effect one of its members, and even then only after a vote of the Board approving the request. LOLOL
I have yet to see any compelling analysis of the relative performance of the two candidates since Rev Wright and the "bitter" remarks. It seems to me that those two events, rather more than race, constituted a dividing line in the campaign.
My take is that African Americans have discounted the Rev Wright information as a race-based attack of some sort, particularly since it was made so much of by Sean Hannity. But that moderate to conservative Democrats were and remain very troubled by the politics of Rev Wright. And, yes, troubled by bittergate, which struck many as a dismissive slap at more traditional Democrats.
From what he posts here (and there is no reason to doubt him), Brian is a) an accomplished professional IT with a solid client base and b) a great believer in lots of "herb".
. I am certain you do not really mean to state categorically that the only people voting for Hillary are those over 55 and the "less educated."
maggisd
Maggi, and this thing about less educated is always stated in such a way that it portrays those of us who don't have a college degree to be ignorant, unworldly, bigoted and not wise enough to make an educated decision. The numbers of who votes for who are questionable too. They get them from exit polls, don't they? Polls aren't 100% right and they know that people do lie on them (for many different reasons, I imagine). It all comes back to the middle class. In the old days, the Democrats used to be the party "for the little guy" (that's how it was put back then). Now they say the new coalition doesn't need the working class. So who is going to represent the middle class? Nobody?
"But it's kind of weird given your hatred of this government and its abuses of law on every level that you of all people would use the FBI as a threat...."
I thought the same thing, 9/11. Wow, Anon-paranoid....your true colors are showing.
Pogo
I don't know. I think calling West Virginia a klan state is actionable. I can recommend a very fine attorney. :)
Would you want to go riverrafting in a klan state? I think it can adversely effect tourism.
nogrudge: I agree with you. My point is that to hear Obama supporters tell it, Clinton was resoundly defeated. I simply reject that most of the Democratic party has told the Clintons to FO.
nogrudge: Exactly right.
Here's the thing -- Republicans (generally) dislike government while Democrats (generally) dislike politicians. Sen Obama's campaign
1. Brilliantly positioned him as a nonpolitician, although everything in his record points to him as exactly that -- a politician.
2. Understood and used the arcane weighted-delegate system of the Democratic primaries and early caucuses in such a way that the contest was over almost as soon as it began.
We should have listened to Michelle Obama when she said that Iowa was the key to Sen Obama's victory. I would add SC to that, since the way the Obama campaign used the race card there was quite brilliant.
I do fault the broadcast media for some of this. The print media knew and wrote about Sen Obama's history in Chicago, including the radical views of Rev Wright...but the broadcast media never picked up on it. The blogs, of course, also did not because, I suspect, most of them agree with Rev Wright -- or with Michelle Obama that America is mean.
Comments
Morning Craig.
I am not going to give up on her...until she says its over....Where there is a "Will " there is a "Way" !!!!
Posted by: Tan | May 14, 2008 6:39 AM
Good morning Craig.
What happened to the posts after 8:35pm last night?
I didn't expect Obama to do very well in last nights primary since it's a Klan state and after all a black man on the ballot with a white person is not expected to win in a racist state.
Still I congratulate the Hillary supporters on her win.
God Bless.
Posted by: anon-paranoid
| May 14, 2008 6:50 AM
Tucker is one of the worst trouble makers out there.
His insinuations are much worse than lies. (It is much easier to point out the truth than untangle it.)
Because Tucker claims the "media" supports Obama - all the jackass things the pundits say can also be tied to Obama. (And then he proceeds to say some of the most despicable things on the airwaves.)
And let's be clear. There were plenty of states Hillary did not campaign hard in where she knew she had no shot.
Obama went to WV (and shot a mean game of pool I might add). And it wasn't as if he was sitting on his ass the rest of the time. Obama is campaigning in the battle ground states in order to cut off McCain's tour at the pass.
(And I think he did not make a late speech because he did not want to steal any of HRC's thunder.)
Posted by: warren
| May 14, 2008 6:51 AM
Time for the Obama campaign song again!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN8dP4CoFaw
Posted by: warren
| May 14, 2008 6:54 AM
Congrats to Senator Clinton, but don't think WV was a game changer. But may she revel in the glow of victory today.
Catch you all later.
Posted by: dog hussein dog | May 14, 2008 7:04 AM
Good morning dog,
Well nothing has really changed here so I guess I'll go back to lurking.
God Bless.
Posted by: anon-paranoid
| May 14, 2008 7:13 AM
I Wil say this once and only once, that myspace page is someone's sick idea of a joke! If whoever did it thinks it will intimidate me sorry, wont work, is there no low trick you obama supporters will resort to? I never had a myspace page and now onward towards victory for Hillary
--Heather
Posted by: Heather
| May 14, 2008 7:13 AM
Heather.......what myspace page?
Posted by: sturgeone | May 14, 2008 7:16 AM
For Renee and other Monty Python fans: Dana Milbank's column this morning, "This is an Ex-Candidate"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/13/AR2008051302862.html?hpid=topnews
Posted by: dog hussein dog | May 14, 2008 7:21 AM
Sen. Clinton may have taken the center at the expense of the base, but isn't that what any Democratic candidate will have to do in order to win in November?
Posted by: Mary Kitt-Neel
| May 14, 2008 7:22 AM
"don't think WV was a game changer."
Nobody is saying it is a "game changer," dog. This game has actually been over a long time. The supers HAD to give this to Obama no matter what. Even if he desecrates a cross, he'll be the candidate. The old boy network picked their candidate, put him in a "change" mask, and give him the nomination.
Oh,and Anon -- I knew you'd be taking aim at working class, rural America with your usual mentally challanged world view. Klan state! Nazis! Aliens! Black helicopters!
Posted by: Patsi
| May 14, 2008 7:27 AM
Any candidate that is close to winning the Presidential nomination and had the kind of results they got in WVA should be embarrassed by it. There is no excuses for that one.
Posted by: vadaryl
| May 14, 2008 7:28 AM
Patsi,
You forgot his evil, ungrateful Jews.
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| May 14, 2008 7:32 AM
Hi Craig,
I respect you a lot and agree with you that Hillary appeals to a centrist
group of Democrats and that, sadly, she is probably down for the count. But, I don't think that the real base of Dems is the ultra-liberal Obama elites.
For the last eight years, certain factions of the Dem party have been moving more to the far left, succeeding in nominating unelectable candidates who appeal to the Huffington-Post set. The neo-libs are louder, have more money, and are generally more educated, but not always. Their voices drown out the true majority of Dems who often are bullied by the Darth Axelrods and Howard Deans.
What is happening this year is that many young, first time voters are
charmed by the media blitz and bling, bling that the Obama campaign has
presented. I don't believe that most of these kids actually know much about
the policies of Obama--they are not what I would call the base of the Dem
Party. But, for this year, they are voting in droves for Obama.
I don't believe Hillary Clinton is losing this race because she has miscalculated her base or for any serious mistakes in her campaign. She is
losing because the media trashed her and mocked Bill, painting them as racists in order to pull in 95% of the African American vote. Also, sexism played a part in marginalizing Senator Clinton, too. Pundits created a daily hostile environment for Hillary, whether on the internet or on television.
The Dem elites may win the race against Hillary Clinton but for the third
time in a row, they will probably lose the Presidency.
Craig, correct me if I'm wrong.
Posted by: prof marcia
| May 14, 2008 7:33 AM
Heather: you absolutely did have a myspace page and no Obama supporter put that thing up there. Your first misstatement of the day and it's only 7:13 a.
If you took it down, that is your choice and your prerogative.
It included a slide show with nice photos of a graduation ceremony from Notre Dame College (congrats there, if that's true) and next slide show in queue was of your purported masturbation fantasies.
I'm told all the Notre Dame grads are doing that on their Myspace pages this year. De rigeur.
=========
Heather: I could care less what is up on your Myspace page. Free speech and a free personal expression. Have no problem with porn, if it is how you chose to express your unique personality and gifts. It appears you went to some effort creating the page, and you have a nice eye for composition and color. So do admire your creativity there.
Your lying? Not so fond of that.
Posted by: dog hussein dog | May 14, 2008 7:35 AM
Dog:
Its easty for a hacker to access that info and stop accusing me of something not true cause you hate my views and YOU WANT it to be true
Posted by: Heather
| May 14, 2008 7:37 AM
This was posted by Rezdog last night. These are states that the majority is white.
I guess these people aren't hard working class by your comment.
"Obama won WY, ME, AK, CO, DE, ID, KS, MN, WI, VA and Iowa without them too."
But then Obama won them so they don't count as far as the Hillary supporters think.
God Bless.
Posted by: anon-paranoid
| May 14, 2008 7:39 AM
Isn't a little early to be fighting? As I said before , it's not about who supports who here. Some people think others are just jerks. That's how I see it.
Posted by: Corey
| May 14, 2008 7:40 AM
wo.....I mussa missed something somewhere.....calling people liars this early in the AM?
what's that all about?
Posted by: sturgeone | May 14, 2008 7:40 AM
Craig it's a rare morning I agree with you 100% this morning. You can't win the general without winning the nomination. Down for the count indeed! Hillary also failed to realized that the game could be played with a different set of rules this time around, America is ready to try something new. Put a fork in her, she's done.
Posted by: BrianInNYC
| May 14, 2008 7:41 AM
Why are you guys being mean to Heather? You just can't be happy enough that your candidate won? You best be thinking about how to pull him through the general election instead of using your time and energies harassing women who are Clinton supporters.
Posted by: Alicia Knight
| May 14, 2008 7:41 AM
Heather: Enough already. You have an internet footprint, apparently, and the myspace page was similar to other webpages you have put up over time.
Go with your creativity and be whoever you want to be.
But enough of the misrepresenting yourself and pretending to be something you are not.
Posted by: dog hussein dog | May 14, 2008 7:43 AM
Some people don't like each other here , Sturge. We all know that. We're just more direct in expressing that dislike now. We gave up being subtle about it awhile ago.
Posted by: Corey
| May 14, 2008 7:43 AM
"She is losing because the media trashed her and mocked Bill, painting them as racists in order to pull in 95% of the African American vote. Also, sexism played a part in marginalizing Senator Clinton, too. Pundits created a daily hostile environment for Hillary, whether on the internet or on television. "
Absolutely true, Prof.
Posted by: Patsi
| May 14, 2008 7:43 AM
the people in Iowa are mostly white, and the people in W V are mostly white.......something must have happened in between, eh? an inference which has been drawn by mo dowdy, for one......
Posted by: sturgeone | May 14, 2008 7:44 AM
9/11 survivor (sort of)...
I never said what you just posted.
"You forgot his evil, ungrateful Jews."
That's in your mind, not mine.
Back too lurking.
God Bless.
Posted by: anon-paranoid
| May 14, 2008 7:47 AM
On my other group , someone went to the profile page of someone nobody liked and wrote up a bogus profile on her page a few years ago. This person who did it thought it was pretty funny , apparently. But , I knew the person they did this to well enough to know that it was not their own work. It was a bogus profile.
Posted by: Corey
| May 14, 2008 7:48 AM
Alicia K: Heather has put up some brutally nasty posts that border on psychotic.
I would suggest cruising through some earlier Crawfords List threads -- you can use the "find on page" function at "EDIT" on internet toolbar -- look at what Heather has put up over the past few weeks.
Substitute Hillary or Clinton or whomever you admire for what she's said about Obama and his supporters.
And pay note to the meanness towards Republicans and those she sees as the enemy. Some cruel and disturbing imagery and language.
No one is harrassing Heather. I just called her on a lie, plain and simple, which she is trying to blame on some grand conspiracy.
Posted by: dog hussein dog | May 14, 2008 7:51 AM
The early voters got all excited about the new kid on the block. Like a consumer they liked the packaging, I need one because everyone else has one. Then in the last few weeks they opened the package and were not that pleased what they found inside. Some found it pretty empty, not much there. So now what do the supers do?
Posted by: vadaryl
| May 14, 2008 7:52 AM
dog,
I always respect you. (How could I not?)
But do you have kids? Do you ever hear what people do on myspace or even on facebook?
Ever read about how false pages get set up to mess with people... and not just by teenagers?
Someone I know had a page like "Heather's" set up by someone she had dumped with reason. It caused her a lot of hurt. But very little real damage as no one who knew her believed she was a high dollar bop escort.
False personal pages get created all the time using cut and paste... most often from unlovely motivations.
I went to look.
Did you notice that person's ID reads "married", the city is NYC and the state is... Alabama?
I will add that Heather on her blog and at this site has a distinct writing style which seems to be a healthy part of her identity. That myspace page hasn't any.
If I thought it was her creation, I'd agree with you.
While anything's possible and I have no proof... I say it's a fake.
Again, that's my opinion just as what you expressed was yours.
Go take on the world as you always do, fighting hard and fairly.
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| May 14, 2008 7:53 AM
dog...
Maybe Heather has a split personality.
God Bless.
Posted by: anon-paranoid
| May 14, 2008 7:54 AM
Corey: if that happened to Heather, she has my sympathy and I wish her success in having the authorities track down whoever put up the myspace page, which one accessed off a link to her blog.
Posted by: dog hussein dog | May 14, 2008 7:54 AM
I'll take your word for it Heather, thank you for explaining.
Posted by: JennBe
| May 14, 2008 7:56 AM
Morning 9/11. You are right about internet mischief and its potential for real tragedy and harm to an innocent.
I do not think that is what we are dealing with here, but very fair of you to bring that up, so kudos!
Shall check back later; traveling later today and have to get my pups to their dog dude ranch.
9/11: I hope you are having a good day, in terms of physical comfort. Be strong there. And best to Vanilla Birdies.
Posted by: dog hussein dog | May 14, 2008 8:00 AM
Once upon a time (called the 70's) there was a young actor working in NYC who appeared in a lot of plays at the Circle in the Square in midtown. (There was one downtown, too.) He specialized then in playing English working class blokes.
Ted, who ran the place (into the ground), liked that actor as did a group of women from Connecticut who formed a theater club dedicated to him.
When they went to see a play called "Spokes", the Times ran a nice piece about them as well as the young guy whose name was John Lithgow.
In today's NYT there's a review of a terrific one man Lithgow show (directed by one of a bunch of great directors 'round here, Jack O'Brien) about his family... and storytelling. Which is something every family does from generation to generation.
A few of you may really enjoy reading this one.
http://theater2.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/theater/reviews/14lith.html
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| May 14, 2008 8:01 AM
It's gotten ugly here. People have changed. The people here are gonna believe what they wanna believe. Be it about other posters or the candidates. As they say, believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. I knew a guy who got banished from a website I frequent . After he got banished I checked his profile page. Here's what I found on it:
http://www.capperwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=JurassicPork
Posted by: Corey
| May 14, 2008 8:02 AM
Dang. Craig, it ate my post, again. (It was most eloquent and a great loss to all, I assure you.) Back to cut & paste from Word for me.
Still wondering why BO supporters think the only reason people don't vote for their guy is race? Could it be that he comes off as arrogant, insincere, lacks the ability to illuminate us all with details of his plan for "change" and seems about as competent to hold office as W? Could it be that people don't want to vote for an unknown & now, an unknown with some uncomfortable associations? Nope, just play your little race card. Very simple & you get to blame someone else instead of taking a good, hard look at your candidate.
Posted by: blueINdallas | May 14, 2008 8:05 AM
dog,
A link off the blog?
That is something to consider.
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| May 14, 2008 8:08 AM
Thanks for the link, 9/11 -- I love Lithgow.
Posted by: Patsi
| May 14, 2008 8:09 AM
dog,
It is ABSOLUTELY not the same page.
The myspace page link on her blog is for a PRIVATE page.
The lurid page is a public one.
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| May 14, 2008 8:18 AM
mornin' all.
Great Hillary victory yesterday - wish it had come earlier and more often.
AP, I'm sorry, you're wrong. WV is not a Klan state. There is certainly racism here - sort of like in NH. It had a modest Klan presence 50 years ago, mostly in the southern coalfields down in the part of the state near Kentucky and Tennessee, but there is no evidence of the Klan here now. Sounds like sour grapes and your typical BS to me. I'd wager you can find much more of a KKK presence among the shitkickeing rednecks in the northern part of your state than the southern part of mine.
vad, told you the voters would come out in big numbers.
Heather, FWIW, I never saw the link or the Myspace site - stuff like that is blocked at work, and I don't go looking for that sort of stuff at home. Plus, if it is like what was described by some who dislike you and your opinions here, it strains credibility to say the least. Kill the link and don't worry about it.
profmarcia, I agree about the media slant you point out, but I don't agree that Hillay's camaign isn't guilty of gross miscalculations - failing to organize and get a higher percentage of the delegates in caucus states while Obama ran rampant there was a miscalculation that has likely cost her the nomination.
Posted by: pogo
| May 14, 2008 8:21 AM
Heather,
I understand entirely why you took your blog private.
Please keep at it, will you?
Thanks.
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| May 14, 2008 8:23 AM
pogo,
A-P should join the AP: he's got the same lack of interest in fact checking.
Me, I don't interpret "anon" as abbreviated anonymity.
'Round here it's again and again and again and again and again.
Even comes with a soundtrack -- Talking Heads singing "Road To Nowhere".
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| May 14, 2008 8:27 AM
Shall we start a pool to see how many SDs come out for Obama today, I say 8.
Posted by: BrianInNYC
| May 14, 2008 8:28 AM
damnn typos - must...learn...to ...prooread.
Posted by: pogo
| May 14, 2008 8:29 AM
prof marcia
You're right on!! This is a coronation of Obama now.
WRITE IN HILLARY IN NOV.. GO HILLARY
Dean, Kennedy et al have sold out the heart and soul of the larger democratic base for the "new" paradigm.. blacks, far left elites, and college kids. The hard working white men and women have been officially classified as a non factor in their "new" 50 state strategy for the electoral college.
41 point victory in WV and a look at Clinton wins in large swing states is still a powerful message to send to super delegates today.. must be some significant nail biting going on. I think the new coalition is a loser
Posted by: BOWWOW44
| May 14, 2008 8:29 AM
The Nancy and Harry show gets really bad reviews
http://www.gallup.com/poll/107242/Congress-Approval-Rating-Ties-Lowest-Gallup-Records.aspx
Posted by: Jamie
| May 14, 2008 8:30 AM
Craig
good analysis
that was always her risk. To win the general election she might not win the nomination.
Obama has been shortsighted with his campaigning. He views winning the nomination at the only goal.
Last night it came back to bite him with a vengence. I know of counties here in Missouri that have an active Klan , where Obama did better than he did in WV. It is hard to find a county in Missouri where he fell under 30%. WV is a result of his campaign messages and choices. He could have done much better in WV. It is all the stupid mistakes he made over the last 2 months that has brought him down.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack | May 14, 2008 8:34 AM
I think Dog and Sheila are the same person. I'm not sure about anon yet.
Posted by: nogrudge
| May 14, 2008 8:35 AM
pogo...
They showed interviews where the people said that they would never vote for a black man.
They also stated that 27 % I believe it was would never vote for a black person. Outside of that I believe there is still a lot of racism in the rural areas there.
And your probably right that there are more racists in my state, but like you said they must be further north than I am.
As to Heathers website I looked at it and there is what appears to be a link to a myspace page. The link was inactive though when I went to her site.
I did a look at the page source and found the link and did check it out last night after it was mentioned she had a myspace page and it was porn. Unless someone hacked her blog account I don't see how anyone could have put that in her template though it is entirely possible.
God Bless.
Posted by: anon-paranoid
| May 14, 2008 8:37 AM
That would be nice for him, Brian.
How many of your predictions for what he will achieve ASAP as Prez will get sawed off his platform today?
So far of the five you cited, he already canned one -- fossil fuel dependence.
Remember, he snuck in his prophet like status as the Lord of Liquid Coal in KY without telling the press he was contradicting himself to grab hisself some of them bitter votes.
Or maybe his seven extra states reflect alternative universes where he can be for the things he is so nobly against.
Or maybe fossil fuels are like cigarettes to him -- hard to handle, hard to quit --
Which makes him, well, merely human and prone to not always keeping his expansive promises.
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| May 14, 2008 8:39 AM
Pogo
I think Dean advantaged the Obama campaign in all those caucus states. My theory is he's been setting up his 50 state strategy since 2004. I remember reading he went down South and then out West to open office/outposts etc. Then he let the Deanics and the power of his internet operation from 2000 kick in to advantage BO. I believe Obama is the invention of the Dean, Kennedy et al. if not hand picked.
I have been troubled by this primary election since kennedy had his tantrum in Feb. Something didn't feel right. Hillary polls very well against mcCain in the electoral college and any reasonable person or super delegate can see that.
So this proud democrat will not be coming home to the party in Nov.
Posted by: BOWWOW44
| May 14, 2008 8:39 AM
Craig,
The problem is that the Democratic party's "Base" is not liberal. The party's movers, shakers, power brokers, and activists are "liberal". The majority of the voters likely to vote Democratic (except for the extremely important AA vote) is going to Hillary. This race has stayed as close as it has because he has gotten that core AA vote, the smaller "elite" vote, and the new "idealist" crowd that he has brought in who may or may not stay around. She has the older AA vote and the broad mass of the populist, working class, somewhat conservative branch.
For votes, that is about as close to 50/50 as you can get and no matter who finally gets the nomination, there had better be a lot of making nice going on.
Posted by: Jamie
| May 14, 2008 8:40 AM
"I did a look at the page source and found the link and did check it out last night after it was mentioned she had a myspace page and it was porn. Unless someone hacked her blog account I don't see how anyone could have put that in her template though it is entirely possible."
Who frequents this site and has IT experience and is a psycho? And who has pals who are cyber stalkers and have tried to control this site...
Posted by: Questions | May 14, 2008 8:41 AM
a-p,
Once again you're as hostile as your blessings are bland.
The link on Heather's blog to myspace is to a PRIVATE page.
The link to the lurid page is a PUBLIC one.
What on earth do you do for a living?
Do lives depend on it?
If so.... forget God bless.
God help 'em all.
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| May 14, 2008 8:42 AM
I have my super delicates in the wash. I use Woolite.
Posted by: Corey
| May 14, 2008 8:43 AM
Yep, 9/11, I'd call him fact challenged.
Bowwow, I agree with your skepticism of the new coalition and the planned redrawing of the electoral math - the polls in the states that are expected to switch don't support its success.
BTW, to put the Clinton victory in perspective, she won every county in WV. WV was a Clinton mirror of Obama's Hawaii results - of course she had no ties to the state.
Posted by: pogo
| May 14, 2008 8:44 AM
Who frequents this site and has IT experience and is a psycho? And who has pals who are cyber stalkers and have tried to control this site...Questions
Questions, I've been trying to figure this out too.
I don't know much about hacking but it's scary to think that if you speak your mind, there's an enemy here.
Posted by: nogrudge
| May 14, 2008 8:46 AM
good morning gang.....
Corey..... I believe that Obama will be the Democratic nominee.... but I think it's finally come to dawn on the Obama supporters on this blog that he may indeed have a huge problem come the general election..... namely... a big group of Clinton supporters who will not vote for him....
and I think as that realization turns into a reality come this fall..... the Obama supporters will get much nastier...... I suggest you ignore them.....
it's a beautiful day up here...... gonna party hardy today......... YEEEEHAAAW!
Posted by: RebelliousRenee
| May 14, 2008 8:46 AM
"As a candidate running a close second, Hillary would normally have every right to complete the primary process, which runs into early June. Calls for her to drop out of the race began months ago and were certainly premature. But at this point, even with strong wins in Appalachia, Hillary has no true rationale for her candidacy, other than her inflamed gender and her putative Washington "experience" -- which has yet to produce a tangible legislative achievement. Her persistence is now keyed to her hope (chillingly close to a curse) that her rival will make a major gaffe or be besmirched by some unknown past scandal. And her message maliciously undermines the presumptive nominee by targeting his presumed weakness in the general election. But the gifted Obama is just getting started on the national stage, while his opponent, John McCain, is a clumsy, fusty, narcissistic waffler whose party is in disarray and revolt against him."
http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2008/05/14/tarantella/
Posted by: BrianInNYC
| May 14, 2008 8:47 AM
Oh. Super DELEGATES! My bad. BTW , the Obama rally starts at 7:00 tonight. The doors open at 5:00. No bags will be allowed. The Van Andel Arena holds 12,000+ people. A full house is expected. Too bad I have my Mom's b-day party tonight and then the Red Wings are on at 8:00. If he could have waited a day , I would have a free evening.
Posted by: Corey
| May 14, 2008 8:48 AM
Cory
For some of the more delicate personalities around here, that comment may have been porn.
It certainly created some unwanted images in my mind.
LOL
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack | May 14, 2008 8:49 AM
I believe that Obama will be the Democratic nominee.... but I think it's finally come to dawn on the Obama supporters on this blog that he may indeed have a huge problem come the general election..
RebelliousRenee
Renee, that huge problem is the so called "working class"..
Way back, they used to be called the backbone of America.
Now they're just a contituency that Obama doesn't need.
Posted by: nogrudge
| May 14, 2008 8:51 AM
Renee , you are right. I guess we need to remember we are voting vote the candidates , not their supporters.
Posted by: Corey
| May 14, 2008 8:53 AM
Cory
I was referring to the 8:43 post
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack | May 14, 2008 8:54 AM
Corey......what's all this I hear about super deli gates? What was wrong with the old deli gates? what, is someone going to break in and steal some corned beef?
---emily latella
Posted by: sturgeone | May 14, 2008 8:57 AM
More spin from the keyboard of Jamie. Obama scores more than 90% with the black vote. What older blacks are you talking about supporting Hillary? And yet again you just skip right over the fact that Obama has gotten more votes and more states. Why don't start trying to figure out why Hillary has won so few states, no caucuses, and can barely pay her bills. How come that silent base you that you believe is Hillary's has not shown up for her where it matters? Other than the post menopausal hysterics and the under educated she really doesn't do so well.
Instead of trying to tear down the nominee why don't start trying to figure out why Hillary can't get the support of those under 55, and anyone with a secondary education.
Posted by: BrianInNYC
| May 14, 2008 8:58 AM
Well Jack , I didn't really care for that guy. So , when I saw that picture , I laughed. I thought , "Wow , somebody hated that guy enough to put up a picture like that!" Then I thought , "Maybe he did that himself? Just tell tell us what we could all do." I guess it's all in how you look at it.
Posted by: Corey
| May 14, 2008 8:59 AM
Coolio Obama picked up 2.5 SDs over night, 5.5 more to go for the day.
Posted by: BrianInNYC
| May 14, 2008 9:01 AM
sturgeone,
What do you know about deli gates?
You live in the appetizing store! Where the doors and the windows are are loxed. And the employees are all Emily Latella's cousins --
Hard of herring!
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| May 14, 2008 9:02 AM
Clinton Extends Her Lead Among Congressional Districts! \
http://politicallydrunk.blogspot.com/
Posted by: nogrudge
| May 14, 2008 9:05 AM
It has been amusing and disgusting to watch the morning shows this A.M. They had a "plan" for
Clinton and it just didn't work out exactly how they imagined it would.
The "plan" has been successful enough to do irrepairable damage to Clinton. Not in the "plan", is when the people started waking up from their hypnotic stupor and smelling the coffee. Hillary hung in long enough for people to really get to know her and see that she is not the monster that the Repubs have discribed her as.
The people are also starting to realize that just maybe someone they don't know much about will be running this country. Yes they woke up a little too late for Clinton but maybe too early for Obama.
Many are banking on the fact that the Repubs are so unpopular that the Dems can push anyone thru. I am not sure that is a workable plan. I think Hillary supporters are some of the least politically naive. We are not easily manipulated. We have been paying attention all this time. More of the Obama supports are the one who are new to politics.
And please stop trying to blame racism. It is getting old and only works on those who want to look cool. Yes there are a lot of "isms" going on here. I think racism is the least of the "isms" and I am pleased with that.
Posted by: ct | May 14, 2008 9:07 AM
Coolio...
Sweet beans..
My o myspace.
Someone very special speaks such fluent fourteenese.
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| May 14, 2008 9:07 AM
9/11
Thank you for that Lithgow link. That review will fit perfectly with my regular blog rants about telling family stories.
Posted by: Jamie
| May 14, 2008 9:07 AM
" traveling later today and have to get my pups to their dog dude ranch."
OMG! Dog -- Thank you! Thank you! You have just made today's potentialy horrible lunch with two Republicans bearable! They almost always end up making some snotty comment about the Democrats being a party of welfare mothers. Now I can say, "No, no, no! In the new party, Dem wives spend their days driving pets to dude ranches."
ROFL! This is going to be fun.
Posted by: Patsi
| May 14, 2008 9:08 AM
O'Connor goes public with private ordeal
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-05-13-OConnor_N.htm?csp=34
Posted by: BrianInNYC
| May 14, 2008 9:09 AM
And by the way -- Denver, Colorado was once a Klan stronghold. It ain't just redneck Southerners who act stupid.
Posted by: Patsi
| May 14, 2008 9:11 AM
Patsi,
And the fellow who made the film which glorified the Klan -- which the stubborn idealist Woodrow Wilson ADORED beyond any film (or play or book) -- next made the monumental film Intolerance about the destructive history of human prejudice.
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| May 14, 2008 9:14 AM
Fact check,
Dog isn't married, she lives with her aging mother who suffered from a stroke. She's boarding her dogs in order that she can help a friend move cross country. Which of your brooms are you riding to lunch today Patsi?
Posted by: BrianInNYC
| May 14, 2008 9:15 AM
Brian,
" What older blacks are you talking about supporting Hillary?"
It is okay that you spend most of your time in an alternate reality. You don't have a right to alternate facts. She has a long, long list of older black endorsers and her voters include a large percentage of the seniors and older civil rights activists (you know that 15 - 30 percent of AA he doesn't get). I play cards with them three times a week and they think the kid is nice and they are proud of him, but they trust Hillary.
Posted by: Jamie
| May 14, 2008 9:15 AM
Wow you play cards with 3 elderly AAs, I'm impressed.
Posted by: BrianInNYC
| May 14, 2008 9:18 AM
9/11 survivor (sort of) ...
I copied the link from the view source info which anyone can do by right clicking on the page your on and it went to the myspace page which was a porn page. Anyone can copy a link from the view source page info, but can not alter the template its on.
Only the blog owner can change information on their template, no one else. Unless someone hacked her blog account she's the only one who can put that link in it.
So the link I copied and pasted into my url came from her view source info look.
I said it was possible that someone could have hacked her account, but again only she can edit her template, no one else can unless it was hacked.
God Bless.
Posted by: anon-paranoid
| May 14, 2008 9:19 AM
ap, as I said, there is racism here. If you find a state where it isn't, let me know and I'll be packing to move there. (Same goes for stupidity, poverty, illiteracy...) It's the unfounded Klan state accusation that bugs me and makes your "analysis" look like it is nothing more than rantings of an obsessed madman. Had Obama made a respectable showing here, I doubt that you would have been flinging those accusations - I don't recall you making them about MS, AL, VA, the Carolinas or GA, and they actually do have the Klan and active, angry racism that still exists, just as in TN & AK. Racism is not a distinguishing factor between the HRC states won and the states BHO won, so drop the gratutitous innuendos - they just reflect the racism in your candidate's campaign.
Posted by: pogo
| May 14, 2008 9:19 AM
Jamie show me one contest where Obama only received 70 of the black vote?
Posted by: BrianInNYC
| May 14, 2008 9:20 AM
unless it was hacked.
and the biggest hack of all posts here
Posted by: Hacked off | May 14, 2008 9:21 AM
1) As one Hillary supporter said, It ain't over till the lady in the pant suite says it's over
2) No matter what happens - it was fun to watch Obomie get his clock cleaned in West Virginia LOL
3) Guess they were so embarrassed by their shellacking last night they decided they should immediately dispatched Michelle Obama to Puerto Rico -- I guess they hope her message of negativity and hate will resonate with voters there.
hahaha
OK - back to my paper - it's due in 11 hours ahhhhhhh!
Posted by: Wendy!
| May 14, 2008 9:23 AM
ct
"The people are also starting to realize that just maybe someone they don't know much about will be running this country. Yes they woke up a little too late for Clinton but maybe too early for Obama. "
This is at the core of the party's problem at present. Sen. Obama was put forward as the darling of media and power brokers hoping that none of the inadequacies would show through the great make up job. Clinton hung in there past when the coronation was expected and some of the Obama warts are starting to show.
I'm not giving up on her, but if he is the nominee a great deal will hinge on the VP and other surrounding supporters. McCain is a weak candidate and the Dem nominee is likely to win, but only if the that great mass in the middle doesn't believe that they will be replacing a Republican incompetent with a Democratic incompetent.
Posted by: Jamie
| May 14, 2008 9:24 AM
It's still a fun line and I'm gonna use it Brian. I'll just drop the wife part.
Posted by: Patsi
| May 14, 2008 9:26 AM
Brian said:
"Why don't start trying to figure out why Hillary has won so few states, no caucuses, and can barely pay her bills. How come that silent base you that you believe is Hillary's has not shown up for her where it matters? Other than the post menopausal hysterics and the under educated she really doesn't do so well.
Instead of trying to tear down the nominee why don't start trying to figure out why Hillary can't get the support of those under 55, and anyone with a secondary education."
Brian: The popular vote totals are separated by approximately 1% of the vote (if you include Florida). If you include Michigan, it's less than that. Do you really think that of the nearly 17,000,000 people who've voted for her match your vitriolic description? Your attempts to marginalize millions and millions of voters does not support your candidate's message of Hope and Unity.
Posted by: Ally
| May 14, 2008 9:26 AM
Brian
It is way too early to fight with you. Go get all your own facts. I'm talking practicalities and you are talking idealogies
Did you watch the Tavis Smiley conference that Obama didn't bother to attend. There were both Clinton and Obama supporters there. The applause was about equal.
Just because supporters like you and the media call all of Hillary's supporters "racist" doesn't make it true, and saying they are all "white" isn't true either.
Posted by: Jamie
| May 14, 2008 9:27 AM
pogo in exit polls 23% of your fellow West Virginians admitted to race being a factor in their vote. Staggeringly high number. Almost a quarter of your people are admitting to being racists, don't you find that troubling?
Posted by: BrianInNYC
| May 14, 2008 9:28 AM
Oh and just to mention the caucuses. There were a lot of people who felt they "had" to vote for Sen. Obama because it was public and they didn't want people from their churches seeing them vote for Sen. Clinton.
The amount of intimidation going on in the AA community during the caucuses was not pretty.
Posted by: Jamie
| May 14, 2008 9:29 AM
Before anyone starts accusing someone here of hacking you better be careful because you may be opening yourself up to a defamation lawsuit.
I know because talk like your suggesting was done about my brother and right now not only is a lawsuit pending, but the FBI is looking into also because of the words used.
God Bless.
Posted by: anon-paranoid
| May 14, 2008 9:30 AM
"DNC leadership tell the superdelegates that they should follow the wish of the voters. How many House members have directly placed party politics above the wishes of the very people they represent."
http://politicallydrunk.blogspot.com/
Posted by: nogrudge
| May 14, 2008 9:31 AM
Brian: And how many voters would never vote for Clinton because she is a woman? I know 5 of those men just on my block. I would say its a wash.
Posted by: Ally
| May 14, 2008 9:32 AM
Yeah yeah yeah Jamie, you made a claim, back it up. I believe his average level of support among the AA vote is around 92% I could be wrong about this, but not by much. I realize as a Clinton supporter you think you can just say something and people will accept it as fact, like ducking sniper fire, I was voting for diplomacy, (Bill) I was against the war, I never had sex with that woman. Jamie the jig is up, people aren't falling for it anymore.
Posted by: BrianInNYC
| May 14, 2008 9:33 AM
I'm confused: She supposedly doesn't have the delegates, right? But he doesn't have the delegates, either. So how does he win the nomination again? It's hard to be a Democratic these days when so many of us are so stupid. It's like having your parents and your friends together at the same time, and you really pray your mom doesn't say anything embarrassing and that your dad will keep his pants on. I hate that feeling.
Posted by: Ray | May 14, 2008 9:34 AM
Brian: Well...apparently a few people in Pennsylvania, Indiana, Guam and West Virginia are still falling for it.
Posted by: Ally
| May 14, 2008 9:36 AM
Hey
What a great night for the divided government movement.
Does anybody think Obama is going to do better with working class Democrats in Ohio then he did across the river in WV
Put Ohio in the McCain column
That gives him 269 electors only one more to go.
Woohoo
Other good news for the divided government movement.
CNN projects that Democrat Travis Childers defeated Republican Greg Davis in a Tuesday special election for an open congressional seat in northern Mississippi.
This is a seat the Democrats lost in 94.
The real good news is Obama was not a negative although the National Republican party tried to tie him to the local Dem.
hey
A McCain presidency
With a dominating congress
The best of both worlds
As I said last night
Maybe the Democrats will be able to tell that weasel Lieberman to take a hike
Friends don't let friends vote a straight ticket
Vote for divided government
Vote McCain
Posted by: Pugnacious
| May 14, 2008 9:38 AM
Who did you all support in the primary 4 years ago? Were you strongly for your candidate? And if Kerry was not your choice- how disgruntled were you?
To me, whoever is the nominee- this reminds me more of 2000 when I knew people who were going to vote (and did vote) for Nader. The refrain was "there is not difference between Bush and Gore anyway". I remember objecting that Bush would be a horrible choice- due to the supreme court- and the environment, and my friend- a liberal environmentalist- said "well maybe things have to get really bad before they get better.
So, here we are with a war with 4000 Americans dead, many more irreparably mentally hurt and physically maimed. God knows how many Iraqis our weapons have murdered, and the occupation continues with no end in sight.
We have record deficits, billions more a week-
no progress on health insurance, gas at 4 dollars a gallon, and no work on climate change.
We have Sam Alito and the youthful John Roberts.
We don't have habeus corpus.
When this is over.....whether it is Obama or Clinton- the differences between Clinton or Obama and McCain will be very clear.
To my eyes, if one really cares about any of the issues I wrote of above, the choice will be very apparent and very clear and very easy. Just because one feels strongly in a primary, does not dictate that they will vote against the other in the general.
A vote for MCCain - or not to vote at all- is to continue to Bush legacy and endless occupation, an even more conservative supreme court. Les protections for women's reproductive rights.
By the way, I have no doubt that Hillary would work incredibly hard for Obama and vice versa,
But they choice will be yours.
Posted by: Kathy | May 14, 2008 9:38 AM
Ally a lot more people aren't or else Hillary would have won the nod on Super Tuesday! Pesky math.
Posted by: BrianInNYC
| May 14, 2008 9:39 AM
And Ally Obama won Guam, not Hillary.
Posted by: BrianInNYC
| May 14, 2008 9:41 AM
a-p,
The owner of the private page -- which was the link on her blog I clicked this morning for the first time -- was "heathergobragh".
The public page did use an email address of hers on the myspace search. Its ID was NOT heathergobragh.
But thanks, as always, for the sanctimony. It goes as well with your aspersions and visions as it does with George W. Bush's.
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| May 14, 2008 9:44 AM
"Clinton Extends Her Lead Among Congressional Districts"
Read the full article, and what the Obama campaign doesn't want to talk about at:
http://politicallydrunk.blogspot.com/2008/05/clinton-extends-her-lead-among.html
Support The Obama Truth Week
Posted by: MB | May 14, 2008 9:44 AM
As I said racism exists here - it's existed in each of the 6 states I've lived in (in this election, half went for BHO, half for HRC). It does trouble me. That is not my beef with AP. And 18% of voters in your state said the same thing about race being a factor - and I could be mistaken, but that represents about eight times as many racists in what by all accounts should be a much more open and enlightened state considering that 57% of N'yawkers IDed themselves as liberal while only 34% of WVers did. And in NY, 25% said gender was a factor while in unenlightened WV, only 18% did. I assume that troubles you.
Posted by: pogo
| May 14, 2008 9:46 AM
a-p,
The owner of the private page -- which was the link on her blog I clicked this morning for the first time -- was "heathergobragh".
The public page did use an email address of hers on the myspace search. Its ID was NOT heathergobragh.
But thanks, as always, for the sanctimony. It goes as well with your aspersions and visions as it does with George W. Bush's.
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| May 14, 2008 9:46 AM
a-p,
The owner of the private page -- which was the link on her blog I clicked this morning for the first time -- was "heathergobragh".
The public page did use an email address of hers on the myspace search. Its ID was NOT heathergobragh.
But thanks, as always, for the sanctimony. It goes as well with your aspersions and visions as it does with George W. Bush's.
Good luck to your brother.
But it's kind of weird given your hatred of this government and its abuses of law on every level that you of all people would use the FBI as a threat....
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| May 14, 2008 9:47 AM
As I said racism exists here - it's existed in each of the 6 states I've lived in (in this election, half went for BHO, half for HRC). It does trouble me. That is not my beef with AP. And 18% of voters in your state said the same thing about race being a factor - and I could be mistaken, but that represents about eight times as many racists in what by all accounts should be a much more open and enlightened state considering that 57% of N'yawkers IDed themselves as liberal while only 34% of WVers did. And in NY, 25% said gender was a factor - a staggering higher number, to steal your phrase - while in unenlightened WV, only 18% did. I assume that troubles you.
Posted by: pogo
| May 14, 2008 9:47 AM
Brian: I mentioned it because it was only by 7 votes (and I believe they are doing a recount). If we all lived in La La Land, when reading your posts one would think Obama will win the nomination by a veritable landslide–and the numbers simply don't match your portrayal.
Posted by: Ally
| May 14, 2008 9:49 AM
a-p,
Serious good luck to your brother.
However... you've got to admit... given your complete distrust of the government and particularly the Justice Department's forsaking of the Constitution...
It's kind of odd that you of all people on this planet to summon the FBI in your warning about legal actions.
Kind of odd... weird.
Makes me wonder where you're actually coming from.
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| May 14, 2008 9:50 AM
Brian would you please post your vitae. I am really tired of your insulting anyone who supports Clinton. I don't believe the BS that Clinton supporters are less educated. It seems many of the polls are way off.
I know a couple of people who support Obama who are educated but they also haven't followed the news because it is just "too depressing" for them.
Since 70-80% of the AA support Obama, are you saying they are the most educated group? I don't want to sound racist but I don't think so.
I have two post graduate degrees and retired after 23 years teaching nursing at a locaL university. I am now a NP. I am a die hard Clinton supporter.
Posted by: ct | May 14, 2008 9:54 AM
AP, since most don't know who most people are here, I would not be too concerned about defamation - except of craig, jamie, heather, brian and others who actually use their real identities to post their comments. I think a judge would RFLHAO as he dismissed a suit for example by AnonParanoid against 9/11 survivor (sort of) for defamation. Even if the suit were allowoed to go forward (would it be in disguises and sealed?), damages are always a problem.
Posted by: pogo
| May 14, 2008 9:59 AM
Facts are fact ct, Hillary's base is made up of people of over 55 and the less educated. Them the facts, deal with em.
Posted by: BrianInNYC
| May 14, 2008 10:01 AM
sorry about the double post - I tried to stop it - drat. Ignore the first one - oops, too late I guess.
Posted by: pogo
| May 14, 2008 10:01 AM
I know because talk like your suggesting was done about my brother and right now not only is a lawsuit pending, but the FBI is looking into also because of the words used.
God Bless
'as opposed to calling people nazis and klan members...
A refresher in the slander and libel laws is in order.
No names were mentioned and yet someone sprang to your mind immediately..
The West Virginia Chamber of Commerce has asked the FBI to look into your charges
Posted by: Hacked Off | May 14, 2008 10:03 AM
Brian,
How does the 80-90% AA population affect the education level statistics for Obama supporters? Are we getting a mean or median education level? I want your expert explanation of that.
And your education level??
Posted by: ct | May 14, 2008 10:11 AM
Facts are fact ct, Hillary's base is made up of people of over 55 and the less educated. Them the facts, deal with em.
Posted by: BrianInNYC | May 14, 2008 10:01 AM
I am happy to welcome the voters Obama has rejected.
That describes over 70% of the electorate in the general. The candidate who better figue out how to deal with it is Obama., Unless of course you think Donna Brazile is right and a coaltition of African Americans (less than 10% of the available voters and "wealthy eggheads (may be 15% of available votes) is enough to win. And young people are 14%
of the current vote....40%
Posted by: Not Bush | May 14, 2008 10:11 AM
Before anyone starts accusing someone here of hacking you better be careful because you may be opening yourself up to a defamation lawsuit.
Posted by: anon-paranoid
Just another example of someone trying to use fear to shut us up. Don't say anything controversial folks.
Posted by: o | May 14, 2008 10:13 AM
stephanie Tubb-Jones on MSNBC now speaking for Hillary. She is hardly alone. Maya Angelou, Tavis Smiley and Maxine Waters have been a particularly strong voices.
Congressional Black Caucus and state officials breakdown
http://blackpoliticsontheweb.com/african-american-endorsement-tracker/
You can dig for the private ones on your own.
Posted by: Jamie
| May 14, 2008 10:13 AM
9/11 - Thanks for the info about the Lithgow play. You mentioned director Jack O'Brian. I am pleased to say that he has been associated with the Old Globe here in San Diego for many, many years and has staged many fine productions, several of which have gone on to Broadway.
Posted by: maggisd
| May 14, 2008 10:14 AM
Jamie,
All the facts Brian bandies make me think of his personal favorite --
Pot is not a drug.
I believe strongly in legalizing (not decrimalizing) medical marijuana.
I work for that the same as I worked for years to help set up an NGO to run umbilical cord stem cell donations and research.
For the record... Bill Clinton did his worst to ruin the medical marijuana clubs.
And Bill Clinton succeeded.
Bill Clinton hurt a lot of people that way with a lot of conditions that marijuana -- as a drug -- helps to relieve in both the condition itself and the treatments those conditions require.
It may not have the same stink to it as blocking stem cell research.
But it was just as political a ploy to me.
I bring that up because pot is a very, very helpful drug for many people including, of course, cancer patients. But one with so many difficult to dangerous side effects.
Among the people I know with lots of cancer, there are more than a few to whom pot becomes a necessary drug.
The young man with that near-fatal sarcoma really benefitted from pot as a medication for both the cancer pain AND to relieve the nausea.
To him it was a drug which helped him in a whirlwind of very harsh treatments.
He also dumped all of it the moment it was out of treatment because of how it messed up his mind and emotions in ways he felt were just as distressing as the cancer.
He also did not like that he needed increasing amounts of marijuana to be effective the more he would use it.
To him... and those other people... it is a medication with a lot of difficult side effects.
Of course, minds and bodies are different, subjective experiences.
Not one of them goes near it when they are not in chemo because of those psychological and emotional costs.
Because it absolutely is a drug -- the same as (as the young man said) the high dose ativan and steroids we both have had administered by IV to deal with the out of control nausea our harsh chemos induced.
Pot is definitely a drug. Thank goodness for it. And may there be a medical marijuana NGO to administer its distribution in whatever next administration is elected.
Barack Obama is against this.
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/11/25/165411/24
Hillary Clinton has said a number of things. The most recent is from July 2007 -- that she opposes medical marijuana raids and will end them as President. She has yet to recant that remark.
http://bbsnews.net/article.php/20070717133158914
In the same article McCain fudges and fudges, diminishes its uses and makes it a state by state issue despite the endless federal raids on the homes of critically and terminally ill patients.
So... it ain't exactly a lovely set of prospects.
But, if she is to be taken at her word, the least damaging of the three candidates is Hillary Clinton.
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| May 14, 2008 10:15 AM
If there is actually any hacking being done, I think it may be starting at TrakKey. Don't know anything about hacking, but
think that's the tie in.
Craig, are your guys able to check this out on Heathers behalf.
Posted by: o | May 14, 2008 10:17 AM
"I didn't expect Obama to do very well in last nights (sic)primary since it's a Klan state and after all a black man on the ballot with a white person is not expected to win in a racist state." - anon
Posting ignorant and bigoted remarks followed by "God Bless" still doesn't make it acceptable.
Sen. Obama would be proud to see how his supporter is following the rallying cry to bring people together and overcome the politics of division.
Posted by: QuitFoolingAround
| May 14, 2008 10:18 AM
How Obama Won by Karl Rove: 20,000 voters in Idaho caucus. 18 delegates awarded.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoL-niwDASY
Obama has run a superb campaign, there is no doubt about that. The bean counters that work for him should be well rewarded for their expertise. But please, let's not pretend that his victory represents a mandate in the Democratic party, OK? Enough with the old people, bitter women and hicks characterizations. It demeans the person hurling the insults and it demeans the process.
Posted by: Ally
| May 14, 2008 10:19 AM
maggisd,
He amazes me.
His range... well, I'll just say that he never does the same thing over and over again.
And his Shakespeare is among my favorites of all time.
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| May 14, 2008 10:21 AM
ct, I could be wrong, but Hillary's base appears to include both older and working class voters. That really doesn't sound too objectionable to me. The exit poll from Indiana is an interesting one to look at - it's a middle American state, close contest between the two, and as you might expect, get beyond race (Obama gets far more of the racially motivated voters than Clinton, btw) and the differences between the voters who form the base for each candidate aren't as stark as Brian suggests.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/index.html#INDEM
Posted by: pogo
| May 14, 2008 10:21 AM
Brian: It is a good idea to avoid sweeping generalizations in debate. I am certain you do not really mean to state categorically that the only people voting for Hillary are those over 55 and the "less educated." Just a bit of hyperbole, perhaps?
I can speak only for my own circle of acquaintances ... primarily single, ranging in age from about 32 to 65 -- both male and female, all with degrees from decent universities, most professional people ... among them only one Obama supporter, a gentleman who belongs to a new age type of church and who strongly believes that conflict is never an option. His work involves lecturing on conflict resolution and he is very supportive of Obama.
As to your question about campaign contributions ... many supporters of Sen Clinton are, indeed, low income folks... Although the Obama campaign likes to tout the small individual donations they receive, various watchdog groups report that more than 50% of his donations are bundled donations from high income donors who work in certain industries and organizations known to have supported Sen Obama throughout his career.
I do not seek to denigrate Sen Obama on this account, merely to point out that he, too, is a politician with a story to tell that might not quite square with reality.
Posted by: maggisd
| May 14, 2008 10:24 AM
But please, let's not pretend that his victory represents a mandate in the Democratic party, OK?
Ally
yeah, but Ally. How is he going to win the General Election because he ran a good primary? The rules will make more sense in the General. I can't understand why the DNC would slant this process. It's actually a tool for them to find out who would be most likely to win against McCain. It seems odd to slant the evaluation process that was set up to get at the truth. Maybe this is why the dems keep losing (except WJC).?
Posted by: nogrudge
| May 14, 2008 10:25 AM
So 911 you are saying that Brian is a pot head?? That's alright by me and it does explain why he seems to be here all the time and not working. Do you work Brian? Are you currently working for Obama?
PS. I recently sandwiched a vertebrae and broke a few ribs trying to ski down some stairs. I am on the mend. Besides the pain, I was a closet cigerette smoker and had to quit 12 days ago. I am full of steam looking for something to melt and this seems to be my only resource. Sorry.
Posted by: ct | May 14, 2008 10:28 AM
Primary season 1994 -- who was your candidate of choice?
What did you see in him?
How did you feel about the eventual nominee?
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| May 14, 2008 10:29 AM
hacked off, good one - RFLMAO. I personally know the WVCoC executive director and many of the members of its board (since I sit on 2 of its committees) and I can assure you that the WVCoC would not ask the FBI to look into anything that does not directly effect one of its members, and even then only after a vote of the Board approving the request. LOLOL
Posted by: pogo
| May 14, 2008 10:30 AM
I have yet to see any compelling analysis of the relative performance of the two candidates since Rev Wright and the "bitter" remarks. It seems to me that those two events, rather more than race, constituted a dividing line in the campaign.
My take is that African Americans have discounted the Rev Wright information as a race-based attack of some sort, particularly since it was made so much of by Sean Hannity. But that moderate to conservative Democrats were and remain very troubled by the politics of Rev Wright. And, yes, troubled by bittergate, which struck many as a dismissive slap at more traditional Democrats.
Posted by: maggisd
| May 14, 2008 10:32 AM
I have an enormous trust fund, my great great grandfather made quite a killing in the China opium trade.
Posted by: BrianInNYC
| May 14, 2008 10:34 AM
ct,
From what he posts here (and there is no reason to doubt him), Brian is a) an accomplished professional IT with a solid client base and b) a great believer in lots of "herb".
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| May 14, 2008 10:35 AM
9/11 - Primary season of 1994? There wasn't a primary season of 1994.
Posted by: maggisd
| May 14, 2008 10:35 AM
. I am certain you do not really mean to state categorically that the only people voting for Hillary are those over 55 and the "less educated."
maggisd
Maggi, and this thing about less educated is always stated in such a way that it portrays those of us who don't have a college degree to be ignorant, unworldly, bigoted and not wise enough to make an educated decision. The numbers of who votes for who are questionable too. They get them from exit polls, don't they? Polls aren't 100% right and they know that people do lie on them (for many different reasons, I imagine). It all comes back to the middle class. In the old days, the Democrats used to be the party "for the little guy" (that's how it was put back then). Now they say the new coalition doesn't need the working class. So who is going to represent the middle class? Nobody?
Posted by: nogrudge
| May 14, 2008 10:36 AM
"But it's kind of weird given your hatred of this government and its abuses of law on every level that you of all people would use the FBI as a threat...."
I thought the same thing, 9/11. Wow, Anon-paranoid....your true colors are showing.
Posted by: Patsi
| May 14, 2008 10:36 AM
I'm sorry, maggie sd -- I've got a bunch of new treatments to try starting tomorrow and have been premedicating unhappily this morning.
1992!!!!!!
Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of)
| May 14, 2008 10:38 AM
http://www.kkkk.net/
Pogo
I don't know. I think calling West Virginia a klan state is actionable. I can recommend a very fine attorney. :)
Would you want to go riverrafting in a klan state? I think it can adversely effect tourism.
Posted by: Hacked Off | May 14, 2008 10:40 AM
Today's Savage Chickens
http://www.savagechickens.com/blog/2008/05/believe.html
There is a political message there somewhere. : )
Posted by: Jamie
| May 14, 2008 10:40 AM
nogrudge: I agree with you. My point is that to hear Obama supporters tell it, Clinton was resoundly defeated. I simply reject that most of the Democratic party has told the Clintons to FO.
Posted by: Ally
| May 14, 2008 10:43 AM
nogrudge: Exactly right.
Here's the thing -- Republicans (generally) dislike government while Democrats (generally) dislike politicians. Sen Obama's campaign
1. Brilliantly positioned him as a nonpolitician, although everything in his record points to him as exactly that -- a politician.
2. Understood and used the arcane weighted-delegate system of the Democratic primaries and early caucuses in such a way that the contest was over almost as soon as it began.
We should have listened to Michelle Obama when she said that Iowa was the key to Sen Obama's victory. I would add SC to that, since the way the Obama campaign used the race card there was quite brilliant.
I do fault the broadcast media for some of this. The print media knew and wrote about Sen Obama's history in Chicago, including the radical views of Rev Wright...but the broadcast media never picked up on it. The blogs, of course, also did not because, I suspect, most of them agree with Rev Wright -- or with Michelle Obama that America is mean.
Posted by: maggisd
| May 14, 2008 10:43 AM