Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Lardass wins the race?

8~(

LushIs...let's s call it a tie...cuz we like each other so much and were holding hands across the finish line!

Wow...Craig,

Not having seen it, what does this actually mean? I mean are they still going to apeal?

ohhhhhhh..LaL...I am happy you are first(XOXOX)!!

I am frowning over Craig's post 8~(

"Losing what they needed today proves that for the first time in 16 years the Clintons are no longer in charge of the Democratic Party. There is a new boss in town."

Craig never has anything more beautiful flowed from your keyboard!

I completely agree, Brian.

Sheila they can appeal but the point of Craig's trailmix,and what I also said earlier, it doesn't matter, very unlikely anything would come of their appeal. Today the DNC turned their backs on the Clinton and said we've moved on, we suggest you do too.

Wexler on CNN!

I completely agree, Brian.

Posted by: Mr. Democrat | May 31, 2008 7:46 PM

LOL

Hey........take off that sock, puppet.........

Hi Sheila...

It looks like Hillary wants to take this to the convention.

I believe that Obama will have the 2118 delegates needed by Wednesday night to secure the nomination.

At that point if Hillary decides to go Nuclear it will be the finish of her in the party.

I sincerely hope she don't as she could still be a force to be reckoned with in the Senate or elsewhere for the Democratic Party.

God Bless.

Harold Ickes said they are going to the convention.
Good!
Ruth

What is a sock puppet?

At that point if Hillary decides to go Nuclear it will be the finish of her in the party.

oh, freakin' spare me.............if hillary decides to go nuclear you goobers better get out of the way...........

lol

sturgeone...

I respectively disagree with you.

God Bless.

Denver! Denver!!

*pats my ass*

Pucker up sturg!

I think WHEN this run wears off of Senator Clinton, she is probably going to take over Ted Kennedy's place. She has proven her metal again and again. it doesn't take and elder to become the watch dog of the party.

sock puppet......look up shari lewis on you tube

"What is a sock puppet?"

Sturg's date for tonight.

Sheila...

Catch you another day.

Take care and ...

God Bless.

I have a great idea then. I'll make sure you don't have to ignore anything.

Posted by: Patsi | May 31, 2008 7:38 PM

Posting frrequently is the best revenge
Ignore the hypocrites

brian.....I aint for sure you oughta be makin' contact with that thing.....but you're a grown up so if you really wanna pat your ass you know, it's kind of your call.......just dont linger.........

mettle.

Hi Anon-p~!

Good to see you again. I am still out on the VEEP thingy. I think if Obama and Clinton get together, it will be up to them and I will accept it as a wise thing.

If they don't, then that's wise too. they are the only ones who know what they can take together. It may be that Clinton is strong in the senate than in the second spot.

I think the election was just handed to McCain due to the 'Reagan Democrat' swing voters. Obama's best hope is the fear of a Republican picking, perhaps 3, Supreme Court justices.

Hi Craig and everyone,

I just saw the news that Obama has announced that he is resigning from his church. The timing of the priest's mysogiistic and vicious attack on Hillary at Trinity last week now seems somewhat suspicous. Lynn Sweet, a longtime Chicago journalist, said the father is very politically savy and a longtime friend of Obama's. She was very surprised that he would make such a spectacle knowing full well that the cameras were rolling.

Does anyone else think that the event was timed so that Obama would have an excuse to break from the church in preperation for the general election and also to minimize the amount of coverage?

P.S. Congratulations to the Obama supporters.

Hillary need not do anything -- positive or negative between now and Denver. She can just kick back and relax. She deserves it.

In fact....she could say this week that she will back Obama with all her might...and that won't cost her a thing. There is no "legal" threshhold that needs to be crossed or acknowledged. She can implicitly "drop out" without losing a bit of leverage should she eventually need to get "back in."

Because the only way she can win the nomination at this point is a bombshell gamechanger that will convince SDs to change their minds -- and if that happens, Obama will bring it on himself. Hillary will be there to pick up the pieces for the party.

That's all folks. The discussion need not be any more complicated than that. We all knew this was coming. Today should be no shocker to anyone on either side.

I'm sure all of you who are so worried the election was just handed to McCain will work doubly hard on Obama's behalf to make sure that doesn't happen. Right?

Sheila:
I respectfully disagree with your prediction about Hillary. Had she originally asked to join the Labor, Health, and Education Committee -- which is where her true interests were -- she would now be sitting pretty. Instead, she went on Armed Services, in order to learn what it took to be Commander in Chief and establish her bona fides with the military types. By all accounts she did a good job ... but that committee is so hidebound that she has not moved up in seniority even a little.
If she were to switch committees, she would be back at the bottom of the barrel.
By the time Teddy lost his bid in 1980 he had been in the Senate for 18 years, building up seniority.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if she actually chose not to run again.

For the Senate, I mean.

Thanks Katie...

*chuckles watching the Clintonites scurry about looking for relevance*

You know, I still think Hillary would be a great Supreme Court justice, but I'm not sure she's ever been asked about it.

Sheila...

I don't know if Obama would offer the V.P. spot to Hillary or not.

I do know that there are many who do not want to see her as his V.P. though after she brought up the RFK incident and would feel very uneasy if she was.

I leave that up to Obama as its choice to make and no one else's.

I'm going off line for awhile and if I get back on it will be only to lurk.

Hope you have a good weekend, well what's left of it anyway and I'll catch you another time.

Take care and ...

God Bless.

Maybe, I have reservations. Ever see "A Face in the Crowd".

Hi Maggisd,

I guess I'm thinking, that she really doesn't have to be senior in the Senate to become the watch dog anyway....I mean can you think of anyone who could take Senator Kennedy's place right now? I don't.

Sorry Brian and all, just thinking in the future. Not wishing his demise.

Katie: I think you are quite right about the church resignation thing ... all along, I have found the incremental nature of these various "events" to be suspect ... particularly in view of Rev Wright's quoted comment that at some point Sen Obama would have to break all ties with the group of people that "groomed him" ...

This is the most effed up primary I have seen......it is kind of like a really bad relationship where two fight and fight so much that when the fight is over and there is absolutely nothing left to fight about....they have "make up sex."

eeewwww---- scarey----- but very possible..

Love that movie, but Obama ain't Lonesome Rhodes.

will robert jr kind of become the head of the family?

"I wouldn't be at all surprised if she actually chose not to run again."

I agree, being 63rd in a group of 100 is not really her thing, and without the prospect of being the next president the stature she enjoyed in the Senate will quickly evaporate.

Sheila: Someone will emerge,
My instinct is that the leadership itself will change... I see Dick Durbin as hungry to take over from Harry Reid, who is not an entirely well man.
If Hillary were the senior Senator from New York, it might be different, but she is not ... and Senator Schumer will hold that position for as long as he wants it.

Ted Kennedy took over as surrogate father for all those fatherless neices and nephews. I don't think any of them will take his place. I think the dynasty will really be bygone when he passes.

ha ha ha ha ha .....obaman had to resign from his stupid church........what a goober...........

burrito: All I have to say on the subject is that Harold Ickes Jr is my new hero and that the decision made about the Michigan delegation was the most anti-democratic, outrageous decision I have ever seen. And for what? To deny Sen Clinton six delegates?

"I'm sure all of you who are so worried the election was just handed to McCain will work doubly hard on Obama's behalf to make sure that doesn't happen. Right?"
Posted by: BrianInNYC | May 31, 20

Wrong.

Katie, Maggs...
That's an interesting theory about Trinity...but I honestly think Obama didn't need another uproar for an excuse to leave the church. I think enough has happened already. And honestly, I don't think resigning at this late date really will have the effect of distancing himself from a church where he belonged 20 years.

Good that this happened - it was predictable. Now maybe the Clintons will finally go after Obama. They owe the DNC nothing. Either they do so much damage to Obama that the SDs desert him or they cause him to lose to McCain. Either way, the country would be saved from the gang that has hijacked the Dem Party. Wonder how long before we start hearing "commie Obamie" on Fox News.

i will leave the democratic party now...i will write Hillary in.....i will be independent from now on....

Brian: To be fair, many of her colleagues have praised her collegiality, her ability to grasp complex policy questions rapidly, and her work ethic ... perhaps they are all just saying nice things for show, but almost everyone who reports on her states that in person she is both frighteningly intelligent, genuinely very warm, and quite witty.

I have always had an issue with the way the democrats nominate... I'm an independent because both parties stink it up to some level.

I hope not but his opportunism (nothing wrong with seizing opportunity though) typified by his use of signature 'rules' to remove opponents from the ballot in his first campaign are troubling. I am afraid he will be savaged by the 527's and one "Listen junior, I was keeping my fellow soldiers alive while you were in prep school in Hawaii" debate moment will end the contest.

Unlikely...no need for details, but I just want to know how things are going on a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being horrible. Anything below a 5 means things are getting a bit better.

Glad you got the book, too.

I glad I have a good book for the summer. : )

Gordo: All I can say about the DNC is that I am totally and completely amazed about the Michigan decision. On the one hand, they're going to allow the vote (at 50%, as the rules say), but on the other hand, they're going to decide what the vote might have been if things hadn't been as they were ... and then they all cry unity. That crowd was really unified, wasn't it?

"And for what? To deny Sen Clinton six delegates? "

No maggs, what happened today regarding MI was not about delegates, it was about the popular vote. Today's action was a nullification of Michigan's primary and prevents Hillary from making the popular vote claim.

Emmy,
My hubby and I plan to change our registration to Indy, also. We've had enough of this "undemocratic" dem party.

Gordo,
I must say I agree with you completely. After the way Bill and Hillary have been treated by the dems, after all they have done for the party and the country, is disgraceful. They don't owe the dems anything anymore. It's time they tell Howie and Co. where to go.

Would Chuck Schumer have any interest in becoming Governor of New York?

Warren G: Looks as if the Obama faction just did the same thing to Michigan that he did to his opponents in the State Senate race. And for anyone who thinks what he did was fair play, he was working off a newly purged voter list to which the other candidates did not have access, and which had not yet been challenged. Purged voter lists .... isn't that one of the things that cost Al Gore the election?

Lardass Liberal, Maggie,

I know Obama's resignation from Trinity will not allow him to completely undo the political damage from Reverend Wright, but I do think breaking now helps minimize the damage and makes it much more difficult for Republicans to raise the church as a relevant issue. It's sort of like his slipping the flag pin back on when no one was paying attention.

I've learned from watching this campaign closely that Axelrod et al do very little by accident.

unlikely_burrito

What book are you reading?

There has been no response, on a scale I would say I am up....meaning if they had anything they would have responded...
I'd like to take them down...but still waiting. final tally "8"

Maggs...the few snippets of today's meeting that I bothered to watch rather disgusted me. I could not believe the chairman running a meeting under Robert's Rules was allowing the partisans in the crowd to cheer every question and cheer ever answer. It was totally amateur. The chair should have established authority up front and warned that any outbursts would be punished with ejection from the room.

War and Peace - recent translation

On the rec from many here, however, I just got it the other day.

oops LL i thought 10 would be good....2 final answer

Jamie...being Governor of New York would actually involve heavy lifting, which has not been Chuck Schumer's MO. He's basically a show horse in the Senate -- always has been sort of the prime example of that phenom, since he first ascended.
I don't think you can be a "show horse" as a governor of a major state.

Unlikely.
2 is good.
2 is good anytime.
I'm so happy.
Great.

Obama gee how will he prove he is a Christian now

Brian: I don't know where you get your information, or how you analyze it, but the MI decision had nothing to do with the popular vote. It was about the Obama supporters pushing Hillary's face into the dirt.
No action taken by the DNC did anything to change the vote count. What actually happened was that the Michigan Democrats did what they had to do to get the support of the Obama campaign ... and that was to make up some delegate numbers that were entirely meaningless. It was a straight out ugly and unnecessary power play ... from which he netted four whole delegates (from Hillary's hide) that he didn't need. Oh, and another reminder that he doesn't need or want her support ... or that of her voters.

I kinda expected this today, but I think it is probably just another step in the process If this settles this way, I see the beginnings of true re-alignment of both parties.

I don't think the extremes of either party will ever be populated enough to be a real majority in congress and will have to rely on their more moderate members. The dems in congress for the last two years were dependent on the extremes and didn't get anything done, so it's just turned around and the extremes will need help from moderates. In order to do that, extremes will have to compromise because they will not ne able to change enough moderates.

That is the nature of extremes. they eventually blend with moderates and soon new extremes rise up. Lenin's extremes are not there in viable forms today. They have been modified because they were always a small group, which they tried to hide by calling themselves 'majority' or 'bolshevik'. The real 'majority' got stuck with the name 'mensevik' or 'minority'. Whatever the name, the extremes, the smaller group, were subsumed into the majority, the moderates.

Add to that the fact that the dems are divided in equal halves, and there are bad feeling on both sides Right now it seems that fully one half will be dumped. There might be a struggle for control of the party and it might be bloody but when it's over, it will be a different party. As bleeding heart liberal as I am, I never had any respect for the party and it's proving me right. It has created a real mess and the bullying has been out in the open and it is truly ugly. I just hope it doesn't turn out to be a sea anchor to progress. What we really didn't need was a fight between these two factions.

big whip he left the church he already used for his own benefit.

Next!!

yikes...that's some serious summer reading!!

LL: I expect to see Andrew Cuomo give the governor's race another try.

Maggiad, And, it was Obama's men in the MI State Legislature that blocked a revote.

yeah, I thought i should accomplish something this summer other than the usual : )

I was sick of spending my time reading crappy books, so I asked for suggestions here, and that is where I landed...

Warren: As well as the campaign itself. Both MI and FL officials said that they would not go ahead unless both candidates agreed. It's widely reported that the Obama campaign would not agree to a re-vote in either state. Probably because, even though he might have lost by a smaller margin, Obama still would have lost ... and losing two more big states so late in the campaign would have been a serious blow to his momentum.

Maggs since the delegate allocation is no longer based on the recorded vote (due to the write ins) ipso facto Hillary cannot claim she holds the popular vote lead. The popular vote was her last leg (certainly a bum leg at that, but still a leg)

Maybe we could all change our party affiliation from Democrat to Independent on the same date.

goober belongs to a church for 20 yrs......runs for president and has to quit the church......oh my.........

h

burrito: War and Peace .... aarrgh! I just read your post. Endless discussions of the plight of the Russian people. You might like it ... many do. Consider Anna Karenina instead (I hope I spelled that correctly).

Sturge...I'll be in your neck of the woods for the next couple days.
Chawlston.

stop on by, we'll barbecue some ice cubes......

I read W&P years ago(for about a year)...LOL!!

I've got a longtime friend and mentor who lives there...usually make the trek about twice a year for two fun days of golf and Budweiser. It's an easy 5.5 hour drive from where I am.

good idea Jean...make it a national movement : demsLEFTme: DemNoMore: DEMnotME: nothingleft : indieNOW:

2 hrs south of Jax?

One woman, wearing a blue “Team Hilary” shirt, shoved a man in a suit and tie wearing a small Obama button on his lapel. Another woman in a white Clinton shirt hung her head in her hands.

“That was a crime!” a man shouted. “McCain in ’08! McCain in ’08!” a woman yelled from the back of the room. “No-bama! No-bama!”

At one point, David E. Bonior, a former congressman from Michigan who once backed John Edwards for president but is now with Mr. Obama, acknowledged in testimony that his own state’s primary was practically illegitimate.

“This event that happened on Jan. 15 was not anything close to a primary election and cannot allocate delegates in a normal fashion,” he said.

Mrs. Clinton had hoped that the rules committee would uphold the elections in Florida and Michigan so as to confer legitimacy on their popular vote; if they were added to her national tally, she would lead Mr. Obama in the popular vote.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/01/us/politics/01rules.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Brian: The popular vote thing was only ever for the SDs and her own voters, as I'm certain you realize.
Here's the thing, my friend (notice my McCain imitation there?), the way the Dems pick candidates is now revealed to be even more flawed than anyone previously thought. We not only have weighted delegate apportionment, and caucuses where no one casts a recorded vote (unlike the Republicans), or where 8,000 voters get to represent 62,000 registered voters, or where .... good grief, what next...we have voting in the morning and caucuses in the evening and throw both results into one big barrel .... we now have a situation where the big shots in the state Dem Party just arbitrarily assign delegates.
We look foolish ... and moreover, we look like a party that isn't really interested in small d democracy.

Yup. I-95 in all it's glory until Hardeeville. (or I guess a few miles past there is the 17 exit)

I also own Anna Karenina, will read that next.

Sturg in light of the fact that LL will be in your neck of the woods soon feel free to kiss ass as a proxy for mine.

Maggi,
Part of the MI application was in consideration for the voters, who did nothing wrong. Plus, 44% were uncommitted and Dems have a decent chance there in November. Like a good MI politician Levin was threatening to fight it. Hillary has an uphill battle fighting the MI party now.

9 referenced that first sentence in Anna Karenina.....great sentence.......Happy families are all alike......unhappy families are each uniqe in their ......etc......I forget......

Maggs...
A total 10-4 on your last post.
That's the whole point, and the ONLY point, of today.
"Rules? There ain't no stinkin' rules!"

Brian: Ah ... the New York Times. Isn't that the one that used to be the newspaper of record but is now known primarily for making things up as it goes along?
Were there any quotes in the story from sources within the Clinton campaign?

And the rules committee has stripped any sense of legitimacy to her popular vote argument. Maggs if it was only about delegates Obama would have lost nothing by saying seat the delegations unpunished, he still would have had a comfortable margin.

Vronsky might kiss Brian's ass. In his wildest dreams.

Maggs, the Times endorsed Hillary.

This is an update to my post from the previous thread:

Intimidate 08 [IMAGE UPDATE + 2nd Update at end]

"Per usual, Barack Obama’s people have SCRUBBED the site of this offending THREAT OF VIOLENCE at the National Democratic Convention. NEVER FEAR, however. We have a SCREENSHOT, thanks to D. It is here. Simply CLICK on the image to see it in full view:

Clearly Obama ‘08 is using the threat of protests — and even riots — to intimidate superdelegates. The last thing superdelegates want is chaos at the convention, but creating chaos is the name of the Obama campaign’s game. Hillary’s media surrogates must highlight this disturbing and increasingly apparent element of Obama’s superdelegate strategy every chance they get."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/31/intimidate-08/

". . and caucuses where no one casts a recorded vote"

Maggi,

In our WA caucus I can tell you how Dems voted in whichever precinct you like. It's all recorded and reported.

brian.....ass kissing seems to be something with which you are quite conversant.......so you feel free to kiss where you will......not my problem.........

I kiss dogs' faces from time to time and cats here and there and I have certainly kissed a couple of burros.....but not on their ass.......but thanks for you concern..................

Rezdog: I understand the numbers. I get what happened. The MI delegation knew that without the support of the Obama campaign they would get no representation at the Convention until the last possible moment.
I simply state that what Michigan did was antithetical to the democratic process, and the only point of the exercise was to grind Sen Clinton down a little bit more than was needed. Those four delegates don't help him one little bit ... but by removing them from her total and giving them to him they basically told the ordinary voter that they (the big shots) were taking back the party.

Maggis, Betty: "Pushing Hillary's face in the dirt" and "bullying" has been especially gratuitous lately. It really bothers me that at a time when it is necessary to pull the party together the Obama campaign promoted the RFK remark just to give them another excuse not to put Hillary on the ticket.

The disconnect between Obama's message and campaign tactics reminds me of W.

Brian...if you had any political sense, you'd understand that no "rules committee" can decide whether or not Michigan matters.

Michigan just matters. Period. Paragraph. The end.

Way to go DNC. You just pissed off a hugely important swing state.

Rezdog: I would expect nothing less from Washington. But that is unfortunately not true of all caucus states ... I mean, I know we all joke about the Democratic Party not being organized, but do we have to go out of our way to prove it all the time.

Is someone saying democrats are not democratic? Would that not be the height of hypocrisy?

Night all. Dinner calls.
Sturge, Jamie and WhiskeyJack have my proxy vote for the next few days.

he committee agreed on a compromise offered by the Michigan Democratic Party that would split the difference, allowing Clinton to take 69 delegates and Obama 59. Each delegate would get half a vote at the convention in Denver this summer, according to the deal.

The deal passed 19-8. Thirteen members of the committee supported Clinton, so she wasn't even able to keep her supporters together.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080531/ap_on_el_pr/primary_scramble

If she can't keep her own supporters in line how can she expected to run a country?

Rendell and McCaskill on Face the Nation.

How do I black out half the TV screen to avoid the puppy killer?

"....drag the matter to the party's convention in August."

"Shut up!" one woman shouted at another.

"You shut up!" the second woman shouted back.

......Lipstick on a pig!" one shouted.
"We just blew the election!" a woman in the audience shouted. The crowd was divided between cheering Obama supporters and booing Clinton supporters.

"This isn't unity! Count all the votes!" .........

"We just blew the election!"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080531/ap_on_el_pr/primary_scramble

Just had to bring over a few choice words from the article I read. Sounds like us here at times.

Not now though, but other times.

How do I black out half the TV screen to avoid the puppy killer?
Posted by: Jamie

Jamie, turn the channel. That's what the remotes for.

If she can't keep her own supporters in line how can she expected to run a country?

Posted by: BrianInNYC | May 31, 2008 8:48 PM

Brian: I know you were just hoping and wishing for the obvious response. I'll go ahead and take the bait tonight:

If he can't even unite his own party, how can he be expected to unite the country?

Hey don't worry folks, we have consolation prizes, Hillary picked up a SD today!

5-31-08 - Added DNC Claude "Buddy" Leach (LA) for Clinton

Brian: If Sen Obama were truly the type of politician he presents himself as, he would have done just what you suggest ... or at the least, allowed both to stand as is with a 50% penalty.
But that's my point ... his campaign is a typical Chicago style politics campaign ... scrub the board of your opponents, grind them down, make them eat dirt. You know what he did in his state Senate race ... well in his US Senate race his campaign prodded the Chicago newspapers to go to court and seek to open sealed divorce records on both his primary and his original general election opponents...
At this point, however, I am not concerned with the delegates or the popular vote count .... I am concerned with the total illegitimacy of saying oh sure we'll allow your delegates, but not as they reflect actual votes ... we'll make up a number using polling data, and the phases of the moon, and our gut instinct.

Who would support that sh*t? I mean really; if you look at the process objectively is it not a democratic process.

It has been exposed to get lengths this primary, and if you still support it, then you support a flawed system. ( imo )

Oh Ally you know as well as I do he'll unite the party, you people seem to think that you speak for the typical voter. They don't care that much, they only care about making sure we don't have another 4 years of Bush. Wake up and smell the coffee folks.

Obama can't unify the Dem party or the country. He's toast come November.

Given the givens, the compromise seems fair to me.

The biggest disappointment for me was the lack of civility and maturity toward the end, as Senator Clinton's representative slunk into an unsuitable, bullying "you bet your ass" diatribe that attempted (in the manner of Mr. Bush) to use the fear factor, specifically using the term "hijacking" several times to link the 9/11 perpetrators to those who were trying to find common ground.

We don't need another W clone; we need to get beyond the horrors of the last eight years.

"scrub the board of your opponents, grind them down, make them eat dirt." Posted by: maggisd

Yes!

Slow down Maggi, you're spinning out of control so much you have many here believing it! lol

Michigan was an invalid election, to let it stand as it was voted would do great harm to the true democratic process. I understand you don't see it that way, but I do.

benjaminblue: The Michigan deal was not a compromise. How is it a compromise to take delegates away from one candidate and award them to another? Because that is what happened. And, the odd thing is that it wasn't enough delegates to make a difference to anyone ... it just allowed the Obama campaign to display its muscle.

and Ohio doesn't matter....lol

the only thing that matters is rules and interpretations of the rules....and as for the people who take time out of their day to vote.....well, "f" them....that's what I am saying.....

It's all about us and the rules, not the little people and their votes...

didn't you get the memo?????

Brian: First of all, Sen Obama has no desire to unify the party ... he is relying on the spector of Roe v Wade being overturned to bring people to his side.
Had he any desire to unify the party, he would have agreed to the appropriate delegate total of 73-55. It would have cost him nothing. The Clinton supporters did not insist, nor even suggest, that he should not have the benefit of all the "uncommitted delegates" even though some of them may have been intended as Edwards votes (recall that Edwards won 7% of the WV voters, long after he stopped campaigning).
How was the Michigan vote illegitimate? Because Sen Obama voluntarily removed his name from the ballot? Even though his surrogates blanketed the state with fliers, mailers, and announcements that a vote for uncommitted was a vote for Obama?

Maggi,

It was unjust, but we knew it was going to happen this way.

And even if it hadn't, Obama would have still have been ahead in delegates. So Hillary wouldn't have caught him in delegates anyway. But now she can rightly point out that she's ahead in the popular vote. So that part worked in her favor.

Her only chance of getting the super delegates anyway is for the unexpected to happen. She already knew that. And the unfairness of Michigan has just added credibility to them taking this to the convention. So, in a way, it's ok.
And CNN didn't think it is over by any means.

I will NEVER again complain about the Repubs stealing FL in 00 and OH in 04. The best thing the Clintons could do for the country is to "explode" what is now referred to as the Dem Party.

I will never call myself a Democrat again.

Barack Obama is an arrogant prick and so are his supporters.

Let's face it; she signed off on the 4-state pledge. You can't change horses in midstream. And as much as I am suspicious of her, I think she will wind up on the ticket. Realpolitik requires it. How else are you going to shut up her most rabid supporters? And I do think it would guarantee the Democrats the election.

9/11 -

just caught your comment re Rod Taylor, and no, I didn't know his daughter had ever been on tv. He was one of my favorites. If I can find a way to get the cd of my mom on this, I'll do it. The theme from Hong Kong is gorgeous and I'll bet you recognize it. My mom finally jumped up from the couch one night after watching the show and said, Okay, I've got to get it. Then she sat down at the piano and played it. Need I say we three girls took it for granted.

How Obama won:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080530/ap_on_el_pr/obama_strategy;_ylt=AhrA7vYGlnfb0Vo_xUXmazyyFz4D

Michigan was a compromise because many voters -- told the election would not count -- stayed home or voted for a second-choice or third-choice candidate, as their first-choice candidate was not on the ballot.

So Senator Clinton's "win" really robbed those who were misled and were unable to vote according to their specific interests.

The compromise is that both Senator Clinton's supporters and Senator Obama's supporters are seated, and there can be 50-state representation and a unified move forward.

GAKaren - Good for you!!

Independents welcome you. : )

Chloe: I agree with much of what you say. I guess that's what makes me so angry ... that there was no real benefit to him and no real harm to her in the Michigan decision .... it was just petty and gratuitous. Just standing up and saying "I'm taking four of your delegates because I can."
The principle, however, remains anti-democratic. Either they disallow the delegates altogether (which they have the power to do), or they allow them in full, or at 50%. But to just invent numbers because they did polls after the fact ... that's egregious beyond belief.

Craig, it's about time! : )

Woohoo! It's only a matter of days now. Soon we can all breathe easy again.

Rich.......change horses in mid-stream.......kind of like resigning from a church? oh, yes......let's not change horses......................

"All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

How many here could write a novel based on the latter part of that sentence.

BenjaminBlue: That analysis is speculation and supposition. Like the Republicans saying that the early call of the election in Florida means people who would have voted didn't vote.
Delegates are supposed to be based on the actual vote ... not what the vote might have been if only the phase of the moon had been different.
This is the type of maneuver that empowers those Republicans who continue to claim that Democrats commit election fraud ... stuff ballot boxes and the like.

.... it was just petty and gratuitous. Just standing up and saying "I'm taking four of your delegates because I can." maagisd

Maggi, he was just staying in character. And the people there sure let him know what they think about it. And you and I and the 17 million or so other Clinton voters all know the same thing.

She is ahead in popular vote, which may be worth something at some point. That buys her a lot of leverage. And Ickes said he was authorized by Hillary to take this to the Convention. And now that she has been treated unfairly in the eyes of many of us, taking it to the Convention will be all that more powerful. And the anger helps.

The primary system is anti-democratic by its very nature. MI & FL violated the rules. I don't like it, but we all need to recognize that the primary election is driven and controlled by arcane party rules and elites, not voters.

So no more of this anti-democratic stuff. It's really beneath Ickes and it's definitely beneath the smart people on this blog.

Jamie: It's the only type of novel worth writing. Very few successful novels about happiness ...

"Soon we can all breathe easy again. "

No soon we can accept another arranged by an autotocracy undemocratic inevitable.

Okay, she takes it to the credentials committee, escalates it to a committee of the entirety, and ends up winning the nomination on the third ballot.

That's if, he self-destructs before then--he's juggling a whole bunch of balls right now and he's pissed a bunch of people off--they may be smiling, but...

That's politics.

jamie.....i could write one but it would be totally different.........

I thought religion was ment to more then a passing phasefor people......more like a "core" belief building block......opps....my "block" is losing me votes....time to jump ship........picture Obama jumping away from his mentor, his path, his uncle....his newly found christianhood.....into a limo with secret service agents and interns.

chloe,

The notion of bringing up the popular vote is INSANE. Not only does HRC not have the popular vote, but in a primary system that is tabulated by delegates and caucuses it is an inappropriate metric. In a general election, sure, but not when only *40* states actually voted.

How many here could write a novel based on the latter part of that sentence. Jamie

Jamie, I could.

Hey
Headline
"Democrats commit suicide"

Love it
What a bunch of idiots.
Wonder
who will be in charge
Next year.
No Obama
No leader

LOL
Big blood bath
Now that's entertainment

Friends don't let friends vote a straight ticket
Vote divided government
Vote McCain

Utopia: I do most respectfully disagree with you. In my opinion, nothing could have been more damaging to the Democratic Party than the Michigan compromise. What is so very stunning is the small number of delegates involved ... for four lousy delegates, the DNC allows the whole world to see that it is willing to make things up as it goes along? Because that's what they did. It was the worst of backroom deals for no purpose at all....other than for the Obama campaign once again to let the Clintons know that there is no longer a place for them in the Democratic Party.

Jamie,

Even if you're going to persist in talking about this anti-democratic nonsense, you do realize that HRC has never really had a chance, and that the FL & MI issue was only used as a means to give her the perception that she was still in the race. And I saw it over and over on this board, but she really does take advantage - deliberately, I might add - of voter ignorance, people who don't understand how the primary system works.

Even if FL & MI had been seated in full, she would have still lost.

He'll probably be an Episcopalian by the end of next week.

I have been watching the hockey game and just got a call from someone who thought they heard Hillary was going to have a news conference around 9ish. Does anybody know anything about this.

He can't pick Hillary after the whole assassination comment.
Plus it will ruin his brand it would be like if Apple started running windows vista.

The notion of bringing up the popular vote is INSANE Utopia

So I'm insane. It's not the first time I've been called that. But I stand by what I said. I said the popular vote could give her political leverage, not necessarily the nomination. Unless he steps in a big pile between now and August. And there she is, his loyal understudy. That could play the part a lot better than him, in this critics opinion,.

Thanks UB!

I was so relaxed after my vacation and now this crap.

I have been voting for every stiff the Democrats have run for President since 1980 and in all honesty I can say that I never hated any of the candidates. 1992 and 1996 were the exceptions as Bill Clinton is the only Democratic presidential candidate I've ever liked that I voted for. In most cases I was ambivalent about the candidates (Mondale and Dukakis come to mind) but this time I can say without hesitation that I hate yes I've said it, hate the candidate.

I will not vote for John McCain but I will not vote for Obama either and I will not give one red cent of my money to the Democratic Party. They've screwed the pooch this time. Bastards.

Chloe: "taking it to the Convention will be all that more powerful. And the anger helps."

Karl Rove: "Yes indeed. Go for it Hillary. What the hell did I do to merit this gift?"

pug......youre calling for votes for mccain and in the same breath call democrats idiots?

LOL

o tempora, o mores

--cicero

maggisd,

The notion that she got any delegates from either FL or MI is absurd to begin with. What's the problem with losing 4? These states violated the rules. They should have been punished. The committee basically set themselves up for future violations today by being so lenient with HRC and Obama.

Sturgeone

By their nature in order to be worthy of a novel the stories must be different.

I even wrote the first couple of sentences of mine. : )

He'll probably be an Episcopalian by the end of next week.
Posted by: Flatus

Flatus,

He'll have to take a poll first.

Maggs this is a game one plays to win, if you can't stand the heat of battle, stay out of the kitchen.

chloe,

I was not implying that you are insane; however, the popular vote is an inappropriate metric as I explained in my post.

As if things could get any worse. These people are serious.

PU

I accepted that fact several days ago. I am not talking about the candidates. I'm talking about a system that disenfranchises the voters. The complaints will hold true for all future elections until the system is changed.

"So no more of this anti-democratic stuff. It's really beneath Ickes and it's definitely beneath the smart people on this blog."
-Politics of Utopia

Here's something for you to consider Politics of Utopia:

"Moral cowardice that keeps us from speaking our minds is as dangerous to this country as irresponsible talk. The right way is not always the popular and easy way. Standing for right when it is unpopular is a true test of moral character."
~ Margaret Chase Smith

Nah....he's gonna convert to Judaism. He needs the Jewish vote now that he's lost the Latinos and all of us bitter old uneducated down scale white women.

Jamie..........
"All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

i could write one but it would be totally different.........

zip zip zoom.

Jamie,

Ok, now I understand your position. Somehow I thought you were blaming Obama for the rules set up long ago by the DNC.

"I was not implying that you are insane; however, the popular vote is an inappropriate metric as I explained in my post."- Politics of Utopia

You sound like James Baker and Bush's bastards in 2000. You should be very proud of yourself. If this is your idea of utopia you must have loved the last eight years.

Chloe,

I goofed on that one. It should have read, "He'll probably be a lifelong Episcopalian by the end of next week."

I was not implying that you are insane; however, the popular vote is an inappropriate metric as I explained in my post.
Posted by: Politics of Utopia

I was just kidding about the insane thing. I knew what you meant. But as for the inappropriate metric you talking about, I guess I'm just an inappropriate sort of person. Because I see the popular vote as powerful, as something to brag about. It may not get her the nomination, but it is meaningful. Just ask Al Gore.

GAKaren-Right on! It doesn't matter here anyway. They think Obama will win our state-what a joke. You and I know it will be red. I , like you have dutifully voted for all the Dems but the only one I was truely excited for was WJC. I will not vote for Obama. And how about that lame "lambasting" Dean made about all the sexist comments? Too little,too late.

Utopia: I am not arguing about delegates per se. Had the DNC refused to seat MI & F