Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

I-zot

Good morning Sturgeon -- Are you the only up here?

Good morning Sturgeone! Are you the only one up here?

I may be..................no, there's the cat......

Cute video Craig! So, on C-Span is the director also he make-up person? You didn't get the air-brush treatment that Hillary gets? (This is how she manages to look so amazing after long hours of stumping.)

Well, you looked great anyway! It was a long night -- and today is a new day -- another day closer to the weekend. Yay!

The server still seems to be overworked -- or it's "working to the rule" which is the teacher version of "Blue Flu."

RE the delay in the vote count last night in Lake County's Gary precincts -- to some extent I share Craig's skepticism that the delays were on purpose. My doubts were tempered when the Hammond Mayor and Hillary supporter, Thomas McDermott, was quizzed about the cause of the delay. Hammond, IN is also in Lake County. Mayor McDermott really stood up for the county election workers, insisting that they were overwhelmed with the number of absentee ballots that had to be hand counted and were just trying to do a thorough and accurate job. Mayor McDermott's remarks went a long way for me to draw a connection to the all the close calls and recounts that I've seen in my own county. So I agree with those who were suspicious -- that was my first thought too -- but McDermott's insistence that nothing shady was going on put me more at ease with the situation.

I think we should keep an eye on Thomas McDermott. He might be a rising political star. He certainly carries himself well on TV, late at night and under high-pressure questioning.

The Repubs are pushing the elitist description of Obama and using SNOBama. All this fits into a narrative that will cause serious down ticket damage to Dems if he gets the nomination. Have been hearing (from Hannity & others) that the Clinton campaign may drop a "scandal" bomb on Obama. They have been reluctant to do this because of the turmoil it would create within the Dem Party - no decision has been made yet. The justification would be - if we don't do it now, the Repubs would hit Obama with it in October.

Well it was a short pleasant trip on the "Hillary can do this" bus, but the destination ended up a little different than hoped for.

Congratulations to the Obama supporters.

Jason, Patsi

Another c-note is on the way. And, I'm pleased for Obama supporters.

um, yeah. too early to say anything worthwhile. the on-set snackage made me hungry for breakfast. i could probably use a bunch of that air-brush makeup, too!

Last night's winners: John McCain...and Hil'ry in 2012.

Every word out of BO's mouth about this country was just so much baloney; too little, too late. Just like he had to be cornered on the Rev. Wright issue, he does not love this country. The GOP is gonna have a field-day with him. MoJo & co seem to have forgotten about that this morning.

He may argue that a tax holiday would be made up by the oil companies or retailers raising the prices, off-setting any relief. (And that was only Hil'ry's short-term relief; read her plan.) However, one could argue that reduced consumption could also be off-set by a price increase; more per unit equals no loss for the big guys. What we need are viable alternatives & I'm not talkin' bio-fuel.

This is a disaster of the Dems' own making. Hello, Prez McCain.

good morning gang....

yup..... congrats to the Obama supporters.....
it does look like your man is gonna be the nominee.....

I kept switching the channel over to CSpan during commercial breaks from the ball games..... but never managed to see Craig.....

on a happier personal note..... both the Red Sox and the Celtics scored wins last night......

and Alicia..... I was an election official in my little town for 24 yrs...... we now have an optical scan vote count machine..... but I remember many a really late night trying to count votes by hand as accurately as possible..... it's hard to do when you've been at the polls since 6:30am and it's now 3am the following day.....

how does someone receive half a superdelegate?

Nice video, Craig! Did they keep the snacks coming?

Was the flag at c-span really in a state of disrepair? I dislike it when people fly the flag for whatever message they think it will send, then don't bother changing it when they should. No flag is better than torn flag.

Sheila,

I'm unsurprised that you have no answer except don't worry.
It seems to be the fashion amoung Obama supporters.

Good night

Jack

Posted by: Whskyjack | May 7, 2008 12:35 AM

Jack my dear,

I'm not sure what you are talking about, but not being a rude woman, I'd like to help. ;0) Want to ask again? But I warn you, I've had a migraine for two days, I'm on the other side I think, but it still isn't too good. I may disapear again.

....email me at chefstonesheila at geemale dot com

And.....Congrats on all you Clinton Supporters.

She definitely IS a wonderful candidate and I think she would be a superior Partner on a can't beat ticket.

Too bad no one believes in that one.

Gordo - They had just as well let the cat out of the bag on BO, otherwise, the GOP will do it for them.

I mentioned this about MO on a previous thread - wonder how people will respond if it gets coverage (would not bet on that).

Title of article: "I want to rip Bill Clinton's eyes out. Kidding! See, that's what gets me into trouble"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/may/04/barackobama

She doesn't belong in the #2 spot; she is clearly the more capable leader. She doesn't need to be on a losing ticket; it would taint her chances for 2012.

Blue,

Have a good day and try to keep your food down too.

For all you McCain people, here we go!

Obama to hit general election states

Carrie Budoff Brown e-mails that with only a handful of states left to vote in the primary election, Sen. Barack Obama will spend at least some of his time over the next month campaigning in general election states, chief strategist David Axelrod said Tuesday night.

“I don’t think we are doing to spend our time solely in primary states,” Axelrod said aboard the campaign plane from Raleigh, N.C., to Chicago.

When asked whether that means Obama will campaign in general election states, he said: “I guess you can infer that from what I said.”

Axelrod said the campaign would still visit each of the remaining primary states, but there is limited ground yet to cover. There are more undecided superdelegates up for grabs than pledged delegates in the remaining states.

“Sen. McCain has basically run free for some time now,” Axelrod said. “Everybody is eager to get on with this. We are not going to take anything for granted. But we are also going to spend time addressing broader issues.”

mornin' all.

Yup, the battle is pretty much over - but not quite. How do I know, you ask. Because Bill and Hillary are blanketing WV for the next few days. I think it's just to go out on a high note, though. I didn't watch coverage last night, other than quick checks during time outs in the Cavs-Celtics game. All I can say is I hope the Cavs can take one in Boston - close last night, but as they say, no cigar.

Anyway, Obama better cinch up his chain mail - he's getting ready to find out why he'll need it. Congrats to him and his supporters.

"how does someone receive half a superdelegate?"

Sturgeone,

Guam gets 8 delegates with 1/2 vote each at the convention even though they don't get to vote in the Presidential election. Apparently the vote was such that one of those delegates got split.

For You Pogo,

Why Hillary Won’t Drop Out

http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/trailhead/

In tonight’s Deathwatch, I asked, “Clinton pledged to stay in the race. The question is, why?”

The answer is pretty clear, I now realize, if you look at the upcoming primary calendar. Next Tuesday, West Virginia votes. Polls are sparse, but Clinton is expected to win. A week later comes Kentucky, where Clinton has a massive lead, and Oregon, where Obama is favored. That’s two potentially wide victories for Clinton in two weeks.

It won’t help her numbers much. West Virginia and Kentucky have only 99 delegates combined (pledged and unpledged), while Oregon has 65, so she isn’t going to rack up many delegates. Likewise, she won’t significantly close Obama’s popular-vote lead.

But for Clinton, the nomination isn’t about numbers anymore.

Good to know that we are smarter than Limpaw followers.....

By the numbers, the case does not look so good for 'Operation Chaos'

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/

Renee -- We have optical scanners here and recently had to add one Diebold electronic machine at each precinct for ADA compliance. The election officials keep shooing people to the electronic machines because they don't want to have to mess with paper ballots. We always refuse and go with paper. The trick is when you have some weird situations like a write-in that cannot be read by the machines.

We just got through a school board race here in which there was a write-n candidate -- a major challenge ensued when the write-in lost -- largely because people didn't write in the man's full legal name as it appeared on the ballot. The election offiicials were up all night with that one -- checking the boxes, retrieving the ballots, counting each one by hand -- setting aside the error ballots. It was a mess. I am not an official -- I am a party observer -- and I felt sorry for the officials who'd been going since 4:30 am and it was past midnight before they were done -- and then not completely done because a recount followed. The recount was followed by a law suit, it just stretched on and on and on.....

I just wanted to put a nail on his so called Unelectability. Barely losing in Inidiana is a big message.

Clinton's argument—that Obama is a flawed candidate who can't win white, working-class Democrats—also loses its punch with tonight's returns. The last few weeks have been the roughest of Obama's candidacy, with the Return of Wright, the "cling" thing, and questions about his patriotism. None of that appears to have severely damaged him today. Meanwhile, Indiana is only 8.9 percent African-American. To an extent, demography is still destiny, as it has been in previous contests: Clinton won 60 percent of whites, and Obama won 92 percent of blacks. But Clinton by no means owned lower-income voters—in fact, Obama won the poorest group of voters. Superdelegates may have been concerned that Obama would be abandoned in states like Indiana in the general election—even though there's no evident relationship between winning states in the primaries and winning them in the general. This vote should put that concern to bed

Well,

Rest up people, we still have till June to finish this Primary. Pogo, its your turn!

Thanks, She - I heard some "analyst" on Hannity on the way home yesterday who mentioned Huckabee hanging around too. Of course, I'm not in a position to say anything to Hillary or her campaign, but being equated to Huckleberry would be enough to make me get out.

OH! Before I go....

Congratulations to Dog, our ground pounding Obama Pooch in North Carolina! Great Show!!!!

Pogo,

I would NEVER equate Clinton to Huckabee.....ever. It must have been a Republican on FOX for sure.

Since Obama has run such a dirty campaign (with the help of MSM, which gave him cover), he really does deserve to be taken down by the Clinton campaign - if they have anything on him. Give it to the Repubs, let's see how the Loony Left likes that. Obama is constantly playing the Race Card - you're a racist if you criticize him or don't vote for him.

She, since the nominating committee doesn't meet until 5/31, and Clinton is banking on it solving the MI/FL kerfuffle, I figure the contests will indeed continue. Of course, Clinton is meeting with her SDs today, and that could affect her plans from this point forward, but in a resigned rather than enthusiastic way. In the 10 minutes of MSNBC coverage I watched last night, Mathews and Olberman were talking about how the candidates might agree to end this for all practical purposes. I think we're in a death watch now.

She, it was indeed some repug sounding analyst, although I didn't recognize the name, and what with my CRS and all, can''t remember it..

"She doesn't need to be on a losing ticket; it would taint her chances for 2012."

BnD I'm with you on this one. Part of me wants her on VP ticket and part of me wants the Dems to just go ahead and shoot themselves (Kerry) again so Hillary can run in 2012.

Besides the electability question-I think there is still a lot out there to figure out and I think the Repubs will do just that-I also have problems with Obama personally as I think he's snowing everyone about who he really is and what he really believes. I also think he'll make a lousy President because he is 1) only looking out for himself and 2) he's indecisive and naive - he's really another George Bush if you ask me.

Running mate is going to be key - there are a couple of people including Hillary that might make me go ahead and mark his name off but he alone as a candidate at this point isn't enough to make me do it.

Pogo,

I know. Its a classic wait right now, but the most important time is now for Senator CLinton. Now is the time to start the "Classy, Magnanimous" phase and to start stitiching the wounds for Obama.

Beyond what everyone here thinks, I still think an Obama/Clinton ticket would be unbeatable. But I'll take an Obama/Webb or Obama/Clark or Obama Feingold (my personal endulgance)

Now I really have to take a shower and get moving....oh my aching head. ;0)

But before I go I want to say something. This has been a long year for all of us.

I would like to say to all of you Clinton people. I have managed to get beyond all the demonization of Clinton this year by remembering that most of what was written about her was invented by very biased people.

So my point is to all of you....the same point. 99.9% of all the crap I've seen written by you guys was written by some blog or really Biased person against Obama. This is politics.

While there are some experienced new people here, I can tell that most are new to this crazy process and I understand your love for candidate and your hurt.

Take the next couple of weeks to get over it so we can come together.

Find the middle ground inside, so you can come together with the rest of us. Just like we would do with you, if the results were reversed.

Time to mend. Because BOTH candidates don't deserve the angry vitriol that has been seriously aparent here and everywhere.

I would HATE to see Hillary book passage on the Titanic.

Sheila:

I heard someone say an Obama/Webb ticket would be out of the question because they need him to stay put in VA - I guess they think that's a seat they couldn't get back if he went. I also think Obama/Clark is out of the question.

The tickets that would make me get on board might look like

Obama/Clinton (of course)

Obama/Biden (?)

Obama/Edwards (but that's a long shot I think)

Patsi

LOL

Wendy,

I love all of those. We have so many brilliant people in this party, we are going to shine this year! See ya later.

The following is from the national review. I can't believe a 12 year old would be thinking about this.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OGQ1MzFkMWU4MmYxMjhkZmNiZGE5YWY3NWUzNGMyMmY=&w=MA==

THEY GET FRUSTRATED!” yells a man in the audience.

That’s right, Obama says. And that frustration leaves people isolated and afraid, and then “we pass on all that negative energy to the next generation.” She tells the story of a ten-year-old girl she met in Newberry, S.C., before that state’s primary. “It was in a little beauty shop, and we were having a rally — it was me and a bunch of women and a couple of brothers,” she recalls. After the rally, the girl came up to her and said, with great seriousness, “Do you realize when your husband becomes the next president of the United States, it will be historical?”

Everybody laughs; what a cute thing for a child to say. But then Obama asked the little girl what that would mean for her. “It means that I can imagine anything for myself,” the girl said.

The crowd begins to applaud; they think they’re hearing a happy, inspiring story. But that’s not where Mrs. Obama is going.

“And then that little girl started to break down in tears,” she continues. “She sobbed so hard. She was crying big, huge tears. And I had to think, why is this little girl crying so hard? And I thought, you know what’s going on? This little old girl gets it.”

“Yeah — ”

“This little ten-year-old girl knows what’s at stake.”

“That’s right — ”

“She knows that she’s already five steps behind — “

“Mmm-huh — ”

“She knows that her hopes for college are already dwindling — ”

“Yes — ”

“She knows that if she gets sick, maybe has an asthma attack, instead of going to a doctor and being treated, she’s going to be sitting in an emergency room for hours on end.”

“That’s right — ”

In short, Obama says, the little girl, just ten, knows that the bar has been moved far away from her, and she “feels that veil of impossibility, and it is suffocating her.”

“This little girl is in all of us,” Obama concludes.

“Mmm-huh — ”

I don't see Hillary as a VP - I don't think that's her ambition. She has some considerable and growing power in the senate, and the Dem leadership is likely to turn over this year. And 2012 isn't that far down the road. If Obama doesn't win in the Fall and McCain makes hash of the country, that remains an option for her.

To shine you need to truly come to the middle, that WAS HRC....
BHO - who knows where he stands.
McCain is a true centrist - he is not a right winger.

If BHO can not prove to come to the middle then McCain with the correct choice for VP is a stronger choice for those that will think beyond blinded party lines and get over their hate for Bush.

By this tone sounds like HRC is toast -

let me rephrase... Do not get over the hate for Bush, But do not attach this to McCain. they are very different

McCain / Romney 08
Would that not be great

Now off to work in my evil capitalistic make your way and contribute do not take society

Ping, I guess it's almost time for your return to argue the Rep side here. You on board? How about Fry? He's been conspicuously absent of late.

Ping, I guess it's almost time for your return to argue the Rep side here. You on board? How about Fry? He's been conspicuously absent of late.

oops

Democrats in th Senate are going to introduce their energy bill today. So far the Republicans are winning the pr war on action on consumer prices.

Democrats need to focus on Iraq and its impact on the economy. Handing Bush the biggest war budget ever with no timelines is just giving McCain another hand up.

I was wondering the same thing. Drudge reported that at 6:30 in the morning, I think it was 14 then they changed it to 15%

http://www.drudgereport.com/flashnc.htm

JennBe, welcome back. Ready to start doing pitched battles with a bunch of dems? (Fair warning - if the word repug offends you (and it'snotreally meant to,and is mostly applied to republican oficeholders and wannabes), you might not like it here once the battle lines are drawn between the parties rather than betwen the dem candidates.)

The most important component for energgy savings in in the Farm Bill

http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/48746988_feingold-backed-effort-prevent-energy-market-manip
In a February 2008 letter urging inclusion of the Senate-passed provision in the final Farm Bill, Feingold and others stated, “With energy prices at or near record high levels, farmers and foresters are struggling to fill their tractors, heat their homes, fertilize their crops, and transport their goods to market. It is critical that the Congress take advantage of this opportunity on the Farm Bill to increase transparency and reduce the threats of manipulation and excessive speculation that have plagued our energy commodity markets over the past several years.”

Republicans are now calling for a moratorium on the ethenol production they passed last year.

Did Hillary cancel her rally in WVA or is it still on. Anybody heard if she has said anything about quitting this morning.

Gordo - They had just as well let the cat out of the bag on BO, otherwise, the GOP will do it for them.

Posted by: blueINdallas | May 7, 2008 7:37 AM

BnD, but won't MSM shoot the messenger? HRC would be demonized more than ever. Whatever skeleton is out there has to be outed by others or HBO himself.

"I don't see Hillary as a VP - I don't think that's her ambition. She has some considerable and growing power in the senate, and the Dem leadership is likely to turn over this year. And 2012 isn't that far down the road. If Obama doesn't win in the Fall and McCain makes hash of the country, that remains an option for her."

I'm inclined to agree with you and Patsi does have a good point about the Titanic. LOL.

Vadaryl:

Her webiste still lists public events, but here is a news story I found:

http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/news.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-05-07-0210.html

vad, they announced her rally in Shepardstown while I was driving in this morning, as well as about a half dozen stops for Bill, so I assume it's still on.

Sorry, but I just read what is IMHO a classic exhange betweeena lawyer and a witness.

Lawyer: Were there other __ products that you ued that you don't recall?

Witness: Not to my recollection, no.

Sorry, but I take my humor where I find it.

It 's all about Ohio in the general election.

Sorry Buckeye Bob,

But its all about the people in the GE. Always about the people.

The people can change accepted Democratic margins of error and the accepted "Big" State Theory.

Forgot to include the map

http://www.270towin.com/

It was amusing to watch conservative pundits slam Clinton for supporting McCain's gas tax holiday.

With the large amount of republican crossover that has taken place, I would not count that out for the General either.

Hi Pogo, you forgot one thing- I'm for Obama!!! Now if Hillary Clinton ends up on his ticket or he ends up paying her bill, I might have to change my mind.

His speech last night was brillant. My 8 year old in the car this morning heard a part of it and commented that "that was something special, wasn't it Mom?"

Jennbe,

Are you an official Republican Cross over? Welcome Aboard!

Some of the Obama supporters want to "BELIEVE" so much that they have lost touch with reality and demographic voting patterns.

GORDO,

Only Time Will Tell Bud. ;0)

Buckeye - great map. toggle between 88 & 92 and 96 & 00, and it may not be all about OH, although that is a critical state. PA, MO, IA, NH, even GA (warren) have switched from red to blue or blue to red in those elections. And if you can stand the excitement, switch between 84 and 96. I believe that if a candidate can win OH, PA, FL & MI, they win the GE, although it can be done without winning all of them (GWB won only 2 of the 4).

Gordo - They had just as well let the cat out of the bag on BO, otherwise, the GOP will do it for them.
Posted by: blueINdallas | May 7, 2008 7:37 AM

BnD, but won't MSM shoot the messenger? HRC would be demonized more than ever. Whatever skeleton is out there has to be outed by others or BO himself.
Posted by: patd | May 7, 2008 9:54 AM

I agree with blueINdallas and patd that someone like a Biden or Gore who might be able to withstand the blowback should speak out if indeed there is something bad against BO that's verifiable and will be used as an October surprise.

Yes Sheila, I'm an Obamacan. I won't change my party affiliation or anything that drastic.

Pogo

The only time Democrats have won Southern States is with a southerner at the top of the ticket.

pogo:

Don't forget SC, NC and VA. McCain will probably only win West Virgina, Kentucky and Utah.

As it should be Jennbe.

Vote your conscience. ;0)

Every analyst I have read or heard believes that the Obama "scandals" will only really impact him in a GE campaign where 527s would blanket the country with attack/smear ads. Most people don't follow politics closely - it's amazing how something can be all over the news and they are still unaware.

My second brain (gut feeling) is telling me things changed last night. Although the dems are still divided, the turnout in the process is so impressive. I still hope for a dream team and no matter to the order...with both on the ticket I can't see how the dems can lose.

(Thanks for the reminder to vote in round 2 of the GOP/VP madness.) It sure makes politics so much more fun!

Gordo:

"Some of the Obama supporters want to "BELIEVE" so much that they have lost touch with reality and demographic voting patterns."

Actually, Obama supporters are placing "reality" over "demographic voting patterns."

That is something the people in the Clinton camp just can't get the minds around.

(that conference call with Wolfboy was pathetic - but hey - they are just doing their jobs....)

Those of you calling for HRC to drop out before WV and KY better hope that she can find the means to stay in...having the presumptive nominee lose two states by huge numbers when he is basically running unopposed would not look too good.
And don't suppose that Obama will be able to unite the party. A lot of us old white folks -- especially out here in the western states--don't find McCain all that scary, 'specially if he has to work with a Democratic congress.

JennBe, my apologies. I could have sworn... I guess my CRS is bedevilling me.

Sheila, something I read was debunking the Rep crossover vote this morning They looked at Indiana, and found that 1 in 10 voters in the Dem contest were repub (@125,000), and that Clinton and Obama pretty well split them - a difference of 7000 votes. Don't count those repug chickens before they hatch.

Hillary began to run for the general election when she voted for the Iraq war. She moved too far to the right, too early.

She should have moved to the left to win the nomination, and then concentrated on moving to the center to win the general election.

And don't suppose that Obama will be able to unite the party. A lot of us old white folks -- especially out here in the western states--don't find McCain all that scary, 'specially if he has to work with a Democratic congress.

Posted by: maggisd | May 7, 2008 10:39 AM

Then I say, "By All Means." Vote for McCain if he is your choice. You are an American and this is your right and responsibility. You would have voted Republican anyway.

Just got an email from the Clinton camp:

HILLARY IS JOINING HER DAUGHTER IN SHEPHERDSTOWN TODAY!
 Join a conversation with HILLARY and CHELSEA today at 11:45am at McMurran Hall, Shepherd University
 German St., Shepherdstown, WV

Oh! and maggisd

The party will unite without you.

McCain did not win by 100% in IND or NC either. More than 20% of the vote went to someone else in both states. What's going on with that.

Buckeye, I don't count the southern states as possibilities - they're dead to dems. FL is the only one in play (and anyone from the deep south will tell you that other than the panhandle FL is southern by geography only). GA was only included because of its somewhat belated switch to Rep and heavy Dem voting pop in and around Atlanta. It will go Rep in Nov.

Obama will be able to compete with McCain with evangelicals. (not all of them - but Obama will do better than most Dems - especially because McCain is not strong with the base).

And remember - the one upshot of the "Wright controversey" - at least Obama has a pastor!!

Plus, Obama gets most of Ron Paul's supporters.

(but hey peeps - keep all this quiet. Hopefully Obama will still be the underdog for the general - America loves an underdog!!)

I remember seeing Bill Clinton (in NH, on C-SPAN) trying to get the press to investigate Obama. There has always been the problem of how to get the information to the public without leaving any "fingerprints". The Repub 527s would not have this problem.

Why can't Obama win WVA or KY? If he's that close then she should be able to put the nail in the coffin.

Milton Shapp and Howard Metzenbaum would never have been elected if not for self funding.

Two amazing populist politicians who also happened to have personal wealth.

I see the cheap shot puppet theater is here

Gordo:

NEWSFLASH!!

NEGATIVE CAMPAIGNING DID NOT WORK IN THE PRIMARY. See, e.g. Romney, Clinton, etc.

If seating Florida and Michigan does not change the lead count for the delegates, what's the point of trying to make it so?

If Hillary can't get the delegates, why continue? Why go further in debt?

I wonder how Hillary's reception in the U.S. Senate will be when she returns. She will have to work side by side by many colleagues who supported Barack and even a few who really turned on her: Ted Kennedy, John Kerry etc. Does anyone know about the working relationships among Dems in the Senate?

pogo:

I just give back what I get and call em like I see em.

If Mccain can forgive Bush for what he did to him then Hillary can forgive the senators too. It's just the way the game is played. Forget about it and move on. That was then this is now.

Vad, he can't win WV or KY because he's black and there is enough racism in both of those states to keep him from winning there. Both were part of the confederacy without formal acts of secession or formal control by the CSA governement (sort of de facto confederate states, although not de jure). And not a lot has changed in either in the past 140 years.

Someone tell George McGovern to shut the f*** up!!

Hillary can do whatever she wants.

(But if Wolfboy keeps up his offensive tactics - I will continue to bring the pain. We Obama-maniacs may be idealists - but we ain't soft!!)

Pogo,

They're guys and this is a race. Its football, a horserace. ;0)

You know the old saying, "Get on now and you can ride in the front of the train, instead of the caboose!"

The guys should tread carefully and let the mourning happen......or even let the Primary FInish

Anything can happen when the clock is ticking.

Someone tell George McGovern to shut the f*** up!!

Hillary can do whatever she wants.

(But if Wolfboy keeps up his offensive tactics - I will continue to bring the pain. We Obama-maniacs may be idealists - but we ain't soft!!)

Maybe Hillary is now staying in the game a little bit longer to help Obama become a better candidate and delay the Rep attack machine for awhile. She may deliver a few blows but not a knock out punch just to keep him honest. Also to keep the interest level up some more and keep the Dems in the news and not much coverage of McCain.

Good one Vadaryl

The GOP's #1 weapon against Obama? Racism.

Since the early 1960s, when Kennedy sent federal troops to the south to help end segregation, the GOP rebuilt itself as the party of racist whites, first the with southern Democrats, and later with northern (urban/suburban ethnic) "Reagan Democrats."

These people were also Hillary's base. The GOP has taken note of how effective her racist tactics were at keeping her alive for months. The same tactics will be far more effective in the general election.

Warren----------------------------

Do you really call that negative campaigning? Warren, you have a lot to learn about how vicious the Right Wing can be when they target someone.

I don't have a problem with Hillary fighting until the end.

I just think the focus of the candidates should be signing up as many new Dem voters as possible - and taking the fight to McCain and the GOP instead of each other.

Who has the NC Senate seat now - Rep or Dem? Is that person rerunning and he/she well liked?

What's George McGovern saying?

GORDO,

now is the time for YOU to bottle your gloom and doom and use it against the Republicans. You could be a very positive force you know.

Nash, once again you sling the "racist" charge against Hillary. Can you change the needle on the turntable? This broken record is becoming awfully tiresome to listen to.

nash:

Racists were not Hillary's base. Her base was millions of women and millions of working class voters who trust and respect the Clintons.

Most of her base will support Obama against John McCain who would continue Bush's Foreign and Economic policies, would seek to privatize HealthCare and would appoint only anti-Roe v. Wade judges.

EurTom,

Mc Govern who is a Cinton supporter has urged her publically to pull out for the sake of the party.

This is usual. He's a party elder.

warren...

GORDO's right you know. Just look at how he's attacking Obama all the time.

And congratulations to Hillary and her supporters for her win in Indy.

And I also apologize for my reference to Hillary and Eight Belles. It was mean, but after many of the slams about Obama I just couldn't resist.

God Bless.

"They're guys and this is a race. Its football"

Boys will be boys. Used to excuse so much over the years....

Do you really think this has been a negative campaign? What was so negative about it? Compared to McCain and Rommney? Now that was ugly. If it would of gone on longer who knows what would of happened. Look at what happened in WVA. What do you expect from them? You don't want a lovefest?

I think it would be insane if Mrs Clinton joined an Obama-led ticket. She would have virtually no influence over the direction of the campaign, much less an Obama administration. And, it would effectively destroy her ability to pick up the pieces in 2012, whether she chooses to run or not.

Someone mentioned Wes Clark. He would be an excellent choice--much better than any of the military people I've seen around his campaign.

Personally, I don't believe an Obama administration is in the best long-run interests of our country. Therefore, not that it makes any difference, I won't support his candidacy.

Patsi,

Girls will be girls too. That is not how I was expressing it. ;0)

Rommney spok up this morning.

http://www.yahoo.com/s/875382

Patsi:

The Clinton campaign has been using the same excuse since the "kitchen sink" strategy came out before TX and OH.

It's just "politics"...right?

I sense a lot of "let's forgive & forget & bring the party together to fight McCain" sentiment here today.

I don't think so.

Hillary will NOT work very hard to help Obama. She'll be hoping that he loses so she can run in 2012. She'll go through the motions of supporting him, but it won't go very far. Every few weeks, Bill will make damaging "off the cuff" remarks, and then deny that he said what he said. (We've seen this before.)

Well, what a summer and fall we have to look forward to. Instead of choosing a president, we'll be picking our favorite Menendez Brother.

Wolfson's argument for the Clinton campaign is Obama can not win the White Vote. Bill was not campaigning in Black areas in Indy, but strictly White areas.

The Clinton campaign did not try to win AA voters over to their side. Instead they did all they could to keep the White voters away from Obama.

In the General it will be a different story and Obama will have no problem beating McInsane. That is of course we have elections.

God Bless.

warren, then you're a fool who'd shoot himself in the foot if that's what it takes to say he took a shot, or perhaps you'd cut off your nose to spite your face - you choose the metaphor. I see ADR is not your thing.

Assuming Sheila's right, I'll choose a sports analogy - You're acting like the kid at the soccer game who won't shake the losing team's players' hands - and there usually is one, which is why the winning team seldom gets the sportsmanship award. A few of the losing players couldn't care less, but some say f*ck him and his team - I'm for anyone who plays them. I'm one of the ones who just shrugs his shoulders - and will end up voting for Obama (an empty gesture in WV) since I wouldn't vote for McCain on a bet - for reasons I've explained at length. There are many who, if treated with some modicum of respect, might do the same despite their contrary inclinations. Giving back in victory what you got during the game shows a complete lack of respect and sportsmanship - which is unwarranted in a close game. My money is on them voting for someone else. As you say, I call em like I see em.

No prob, Pogo! I think our party needs a wake up call. McCain is just not the Republican for me. Obama may be too liberal in the long run, but he brings some good back to this process and I'm willing to take a chance.

Man so much to read on the internet today, that I'm not going to get anything done.

Joe and Mika both were pretty hilarious this morning, did anyone see the clip they played from last night's The Jay Leno Show ?

Pogo,

Here here and thank you!

Nash, why accuse anyone until they deserve it? Allow some healing to happen please.

I am betting that an Obama adminstration is going to change a lot of minds. But of course, the proof is in the pudding and its not cooked yet.

I don't agree that Hillary won't work hard for Obama, yah she may have her eye on 2012 but let's not forget that who could be on the supreme court if McCain get's in. Also the Hillary supporters who say today they won't vote for BHO. Can't forget about the court selections and that could be the game breaker and change their minds.

"Hillary will NOT work very hard to help Obama. "

Nash, that's the same lie that your crowd was leveling at Bill about John Kerry....when in fact, Bill Clinton pulled a hundred thousand people into the streets of Philly for Kerry. Without Bill, Kerry would have had about a hundred.

pogo:

I was quick to congratulate Hillary and her supporters last night on her win. And I do not treat all Clinton supporters the same - because you are all very different.

And just like I always do on this blog - if someone takes what I believe is an unfair shot against Obama or his supporters - I am going to hit back.

AP ------------------------

You still don't understand - I'm trying to warn the Obama supporters what the Repubs would do to him. I've only posted a fraction of the "dirt" that I know about. In the GE, the Repubs would almost have too much to work with - need to keep it simple.

ET: Code words that the MSM uses to describe Hillary's base: older, rural, less educated, more conservative values. That's also a pretty good demographic profile of the white American racist, 2008.

Not all Clinton supporters are racists, but many are, and the Clintons deliberately courted them.

The GOP watched the Clintons' every move and took note. A cold, hard calculation tells them that the best way to defeat Obama is to use race.

Warren, would it be so.

But, reflect on many of the conversations here, especially from Obama supporters, where shotgun attacks against Clinton supporters are often prefaced with phrases such as, "You people...".

Those antics have left a very sour taste in my mouth, and shed his candidacy, at least in my eyes, in a very unfavorable light.

How can the GOP defeat Obama?
* They can't use "new ideas." They don't have any.
* They can't wave the flag and say stay the course in Iraq.
* They can't leverage Bush's (nonexistent) popularity.
* The economy sucks and everyone knows it's their fault.
* No one care about gay marriage.
* They can't use illegal immigration.
What's left? RACE. And Hillary demonstrated its power.

Once again, the GOP has found a "values" issue that will cause low-income whites to vote against their own self-interest.

This is crazy. Rush Limbaugh could not get his own people to vote for Rommney. So he is full of himself, and Obama's camp is out to lunch on this one.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/05/06/obama-camp-credits-operation-chaos-for-clinton-lead-in-indiana/

Patsi--

Just in case you missed this:
http://www.comicspage.com/shoe/index.html

"I've only posted a fraction of the "dirt" that I know about."

God, Gordo....shut up. Obama's already shot himself in the foot. No need for you to keep trying to dig up more dirt.

The reason that I've been ranting about Hillary's use of the race card for so long is that, as soon as she started to do it, I knew that she was handing the GOP it's most powerful weapon.

Hillary has preconditioned a huge group of voters to respond to a (subtle) racist general election campaign. Just as she did, the GOP can wage use race, deny that they are doing it, and then accuse Obama of playing the race card, just as Bill Clinton did.

The GOP can produce DOZENS of devastating TV ads against Obama, using nothing but Hillary's surrogates, including Bill, talking about Obama the coke dealer, etc.

Ha....good one Flatus.

You idiots need to cut out the racist crap already.
There certainly are a lot of racists here in Kentucky, but the majority of them belong to the Republican party. Obama will lose in the primaries because religion and patriotism are hopelessly intertwined here, even in the Democratic party. Renouncing Reverend Wright when only when it became politically expedient isn't fooling anyone here. People just aren't going to vote for someone who's preacher & spouse appear to hate America. I'm not trying to start a fight, here, I'm just telling it like it is.

Flatus:

Barack Obama has not approved any of the message I or others post here.

Of course the BEST weapon the GOP has against Obama is Rev. Wright, and Hillary isn't responsible for that.

We are going to see quite a lot of Rev Wright on TV ads, with the "Goddamn America" sound bite as the knife in Obama's heart.

McCain has nothing else to run on. His only chance is to put on a Klan robe and turn Obama into Willie Horton's younger cousin.

Plus, remember - I genuinely like "you people"...

(otherwise - I wouldn't spend so much damn time here!)

Warren, the tone of the traffic has, in general, talked down to Clinton supporters, and, in some cases, with derision. That tone, to my ears, sounds the same elitist message as I hear from his campaign.

Flatus: you may have asour taste in your mouth, but we have had to put up with this foul odor...

warren, all I can say is that your intent and the perception of your intent are worlds apart. It matters not a whit (or is it wit?) to me - I've had good discussions with you and will continue to do so, I expect. And I'd suggest that we ease off (note I say we) on the "disingenuous" "hypocritical" "Obama/Clinton did the same thing" shit. It's counter productive, achieves nothing other than a tension release, and tars both candidates.

Sheila: I would not have voted Repub anyway. I have been voting a very long time and the only Repub I ever voted for was Gerald Ford. And, I still think it was the right vote.
As to the Clintons courting the white racist vote...how about they were courting the votes without which Dems cannot win the GE? Hillary also had massive support among Latinos in states where they make up a large portion of the electorate.
I could have supported Obama right up to South Carolina. I think former Pres Clinton was right...the Obama campaign did play the race card first, and the SC talking points memo proved it to me. I may be an idiot, but I have lived in mixed racial / ethnic communities all my life and I never heard anyone--aside from Geraldine Ferraro--make a racist remark.

Flatus: you may have asour taste in your mouth, but we have had to put up with this foul odor...

Posted by: nash

I recommend a shower for you

Flatus:

I have felt "talked down" to almost everytime I set foot in this blog. Whether I was told I was naive, drinking Kool-Aid or just plain stupid (not to mention even worse.)

It is politics and all of us here passionately believe that our candidate is the best way forward for this Country and many of us are willing to do whatever it takes to get that person elected (even though our tactics can be misguided or mean-spirited).

(And you all loved Hillary because she is a "fighter" - so what is so wrong for me and others "fighting" for Obama....)

FLATUS,

I believe it has been 6 to 1 and half a dozen to the other.

Both sides have seen some seriously PAINFUL blogging here. Are we going to take it out on the candidates and the party or are we going to get past it?

This is your delema. I was always more than willing to get past typical political strategy of shooting your rival in the foot and knee capping them until it was over.

So lets all take time to work it out.

"The reason that I've been ranting about Hillary's use of the race card for so long is that, as soon as she started to do it, I knew that she was handing the GOP it's most powerful weapon."

Puh-leeze. Obama started playing the race card -- not to mention making sexist comments about Hillary. He KNEW that to pull the AA vote away from the Clintons he had to paint them as racists. Even if it meant trying to make people believe that mentioning LBJ and Civil Rights was racist. And what the hell, it worked.

Oh, and John R -- I went back months in the messages to find where the malevolent posts started.They started with you saying very ugly things about the Clintons. and we who supported Hillary.

Flatus: "Elitist" is a GOP racist code word.

According to the GOP, "Cultural Elitists" brought us...
* desegregation
* affirmative action
* hate crimes legislation

Variations are: "latte drinking East Coast elites," "Hollywood elites," and "limousine liberals."

Note that the Clintons readily adopted the "elitist" phrase, as part of their racist campaign.

jeejee, from WV I say absolutely. BTW, you forgot to add guns. That issue more than any other turned WV red in '00.

Flatus:

Exhibit A:

"Sock Puppet Theater Act II"

(it goes both ways in here. And trying to figure out which side was "meaner" is pointless and counter-productive.")

I completely agree with pogo.

lunch

I repeat,

6 to 1 half a dozen to the other.......Are we going to stop the babyass (quarter in the jar) finger pointing and get beyond this?????

There is no answer ya'lls way!!!! How about just dropping all of the negative and finding some possitives to build a bridge with?

BTW, check out the video of Mitt Romney on CNN talking about which candidate the GOP prefers to face in the fall:

http://news.yahoo.com/video/2460

(Hint) It's not Hillary Clinton

Bill Clinton in NC:

The MSM was too tactful to note this but when Bill recently toured "small towns" in North Carolina, he was touring 99% white communities, the ones that chased most of their black residents out of town decades years ago.

He should have been wearing a sheet and a hood.

Good God Nash,

I hate to do this, but I'm pressing the ignore button on you.........

Right Warren in response to more of Nash's racist bullshit.

Lift stuff out of context only goes to show you' are capable of the worst behavior

You decry cheapshots but that is all you launch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv9bU4S2ctY&feature=related

Go Nora!!! She's getting fiesty in her last trimester, glad to see someone take on Terrie McAlliffe.

pogo: "Guns" is a racial issue also. The NRA was originally founded by racists who wanted the white race to have guns to "protect themselves" from blacks.

The same motivation today can be found among the majority of white gun owners. When they say they want to "protect" themselves, we know who it is they are most afraid of.

Patsi you are exactly right with your comments and your analysis. Once the DNC set up the first four states, the path ahead was clear, and the early primary in SC was the magic bullet. It's just sad to me that so many people were / are willing to call Bill Clinton a racist. Up until the minute he moved to Chicago, I daresay Bill Clinton had more black friends than did Sen Obama. Let's not forget where and under what circumstances Bill Clinton grew up...

This is fasinating. I don't hold a lot on it. Just a good snap shot, but what could have really caused this?

Zogby Polling :Female Voters Deserting Hillary
http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_rob_kall_080506_zogby_polls_3a_hillary.htm

As I post, I'm listening to Neal Boortz's radio show. In response to a caller's question, he began to connect Obama to a number of communists. He said this person is a "dot" and that person is a "dot" and so on. I've posted about Rev Otis Moss III hitting mainstream Right Wing radio last week. The RW loves to do this sort of thing - you can hear it in their voices.

". . . glad to see someone take on Terrie McAlliffe."-JennBe

You mean, Baghdad Bob. LOL

McAuliffe is too much sometimes.

Nash, that's how the Obama campaign characterized his remarks here in South Carolina--even before he made them.

They played the race card, and double-downed when it looked as if they had a winner.

Sooner or later a wonderful segment of our party is going to recognize how shamelessly they were duped.

Nash - So everyone who belongs to the NRA is actually a racist?

Pogo, they have even started having "gun safety"classes in the schools in WV, how stupid is that? Guns belong nowhere near school children.
Just another tragedy waiting to happen.....

Pretty funny how far some will go to call something racist.

Flatus--you failed to mention that the apportioning of delegates (particularly in southern states) is actually weighted toward black voters. The current system, begun after 1988, rewards loyal Democratic voters by apportioning delegates based on voting in the last election. Thus, in Texas, the districts in Houston received more delegates than those in the Rio Grande valley, based on voter participation in 2004.
I am in favor of proportional representation, but I don't think it should work out this way.

Rez, someone in Hillary's campaign need s to give him the day off.

Gordo....I'd listen top Boortz with about the same enthusiasm as the guy who, despite the fact that the poll Sheila linked, was "statistically insignificant" said women were jumping like rats off Hillary's ship. He's just sure women hate Hillary because she was PO'd at MoveOn.org....Gee wonder why Hillary might not care for them? Because they jumped in the all-boy's-tank and raised all that money for their guy?

Here's the article's author:

Rob Kall is executive editor and publisher of OpEdNews.com, President of Futurehealth, Inc, inventor . He is a frequent Speaker on Politics, Impeachment, The art, science and power of story, heroes and the hero's journey, Positive Psychology, Stress, Biofeedback and a wide range of subjects. He is a campaign consultant specializing in tapping the power of stories for issue positioning,

Race card, smace card. I don't care. The only race I care about right now is this primary race and it's OVAH. Now, Clintonites might want to drink from the deep, deep cup of regret (and also help pay the debt owed to Mark Penn...thank you very much...I'll be here all night), go on ahead. But this race is all over but the shouting. And the only ones shouting are Hillary and Bill.

prof nash
you have still not answered my question:
why are the NC 60% white voters for a white woman called racists when the NC 92% black voters for a black man are not?
with this logic, you could also say that 30% white and 92% black voters are sexists.

JeeJee -- "Begun" holding gun safety classes in WV schools?
This is nothing new. You may be interested to know that up until recent years high schools in uber liberal Farifax County VA have had gun clubs and shooting ranges on campus. In VA you can still carry your long gun to high school -- as long as you keep it racked during class time -- in hunting season. I attended high school in SoCal. Sure, we had a champion surf team -- but we also had a rifle team.

In many areas of the country, DEMs lose when they come out against guns.

Patsi: Moveon.org is funded by George Soros, whose family members were among the largest contributors to Sen Obama's Senate campaign and who also is a huge backer of Huffington Post...I'm actually surprised Hillary wasn't more harsh in her comments.

JeeJee

"Guns belong nowhere near school children.
Just another tragedy waiting to happen....."

Just a bit of a reality check. You might want to read "Freakonomics". It parents were really interested in their children surviving. They would send them to the homes with guns, never put them in a car, and keep them away from the homes with swimming pools.

At the beginning of the presidential campaigns much was made of the disarray in the Republican Party and who would end up in control. The moderates won.

Democrats were going through a similar process and the far left won.

Will Bush's incompetent terms in office be enough to swing people to the left or will they regret the Bush choice by going to the more moderate and perceived bi- partisanship of McCain.

Put down the noisemakers & the party hats because
a) BO hasn't won the gen'l yet (and he can't)
and
b) Hil'ry isn't done with him yet

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080507/ap_on_el_pr/campaign_rdp

Irony alert: Moveon.org was founded as a way to help Clinton during the impeachment hearings. Just for your information...LOL

Alicia, I spent a very long year teaching at a middle school in WV. The last thing those little spawns of the devil needed was access to weapons. I think it simply depends on the community.

Patsi I agree with your take on the hate crap the guy fed.

But the snap shot of polling statistics coming off both elections last night is interesting.

Did these women slap her hand for something? Or was it the Gas Tax Holiday?

Something to think about and I don't think the Media will parse about anything but "IF Limpaw did something to the voting".......

But, reflect on many of the conversations here, especially from Obama supporters, where shotgun attacks against Clinton supporters are often prefaced with phrases such as, "You people...".

Those antics have left a very sour taste in my mouth, and shed his candidacy, at least in my eyes, in a very unfavorable light.

Posted by: Flatus

Flatus, you're an oasis in a shifting desert.

toast

Bye Bye Billary: I am aware that MoveOn was founded during the impeachment. Nevertheless, my earlier post is also correct. And as Lynn C said, the far left of the Dem Party now appears to have won the nomination.
Anyone have any thoughts on which states they think Sen Obama will win / not win?

Nash -- Have you any idea just how many AAs are also gun owners? I have some news for you -- gun ownership is just as prevalent in the black community as it is in the white community. You are making some wild assumptions about why people own guns. I live in a racially diverse community. About one third of the people around here have concealed carry permits. Open carry is so widely practiced that people don't bat an eye when they see holstered guns in restaurants. I live within spitting distance of Quantico and the FBI academy -- lots of AA gun owners and sharpshooters around here. It's part of a regional -- not racial -- culture.

I'm watching Hillary speak and I can only think that this is sad. I don't hate Hillary. I dislike her tactics and how she tried to go deep in the mud, but I don't hate her. I like messing with you guys because this blog is so heavily supports Clinton, but even Clintonites have to admit that there's a time to realize that it ain't happening.

Mitt Romney could have self funded his campaign to the end, but what would it have gained him or his party? So what is this gaining HIllary? Nothing, except the notion that she's deluding herself. Even reporters on a conference call remarked that the Clinton folks are on Planet Clinton. Sad.

maggisd I don't think you are looking at Obama the right way.

Before this started, he was seen as too far right.....Odd right?

Except the right wing have gone so far right, a center left person looks too far left......if you want to pick it apart.

BUT, big but, if too far left is about big change for the better in the governement? Then I want to be far left too.

Heck, the man is center left.

Congratulations to Senator Obama and his impressive win in NC yesterday. Congratulations to Senator Clinton on her slim victory in IN yesterday. For the remaining primaries, I suspect the tone, much like here today, will be considerably quieter so that Democrats of all stripes can come together for the push in the Fall.

I'm going to go out on a limb here (no, I'm not saying Run, Al, Run anymore) but I believe HRC will work very hard for a united Democratic ticket to beat McCain because she is a very viable candidate to be seated on the US Supreme Court in the next year or two. Like a lot of Court watchers, I'm concerned that Bush still might be able to make one or even two more appointments this year -- God forbid!

Justice Ginsburg has said she wants to retire. So, Senator Clinton would be a great replacement by the Obama administration. This will do two things: one, it places a great policy wonk on the Court; and, two, it will move Bill Clinton back to being a statesman instead of the politico of the past year or so. Two Clintons with one stone!

Maybe it's all right to go back in the water again after all after yesterday's primaries. Have a great day everyone!

Oh, silly nash & his silly, false arguements. Remember, if you don't vote for Obama, the terrosts win..and you're a racist. It's just laughable.

As usual Eprof,

You are the voice of reason and now, the voice of creativity....that was good!

Obama won't win Florida & Michigan. Mitt Romney said so this morning. He had this very satisfied look on his face, I think he was already picturing himself as VP.

Bye-Bye said: " I don't hate her. I like messing with you"

Oh yeah. You spout off more hate than Nash if that's possible. You are abusive. It's as simple as that. "I didn't want to slap my wife. I just like messing with her."

jeejee,

I live in Michigan and I'm telling you, its going to stay Democrat......just not going to go red.

JeeJee -- I work with middle schoolers too -- I don't find them to be "spawns of the devil." As far as WV - they likely already have had access to firearms since they were tadpoles. In that case, gun safety classes are needed.

I have read your other posts so I don't want to disagree with you -- as I agree with you on other points. Please try to think of children in more positive ways -- especially if you are still teaching. The most unlovable child is the one who needs our love the most.

Mahalo,

Sheila
I am not that concerned about Sen Obama's domestic agenda -- it is his foreign policy agenda that I find more worrisome.
In actual fact, however, it is really the tactics of his campaign. I know that the current meme is to accuse the Clintons of racism, but I disagree with that. Once I became aware of the SC talking points memo, I began to see Sen Obama as just another politician, and a rather inexperienced one at that.
I know Sen Obama is not as far left as some of his supporters believe. Nor is he as "green" ...
But, here's the bottom line...I'm a westerner, and I'm so old I'm not even a Boomer...I have met Sen McCain and am acquainted with people who served with him ... moreover, I am not frightened of his SC nominations because he'll never get any right wingers through the Democratic Congress.

By the way, I live in a state that Obama is certain to carry, so my vote for Sen McCain will be little more than a protest vote.

Patsi, I love how you see sexism in everything. You're like Gordo in that you have your schtick...

Patsi at McDonalds: I ordered ketchup with my fries.
McDonalds employee: Sorry ma'am, but we're out.
Patsi: Ma'am? Why you sexist pig! You didn't save me any ketchup because I'm a woman. And this is OBVIOUSLY your attempt to maintain patriarchal control over me!
---------------------------------------------------------------

Patsi on a date...

Man: I really like your eyes.
Patsi: What? You want to look into my eyes so that you can steal my soul? Not today you evil man. My eyes are my own, damn you.

prof nash
you have still not answered my question:
why are the NC 60% white voters for a white woman called racists when the NC 92% black voters for a black man are not?
with this logic, you could also say that 40% white and 92% black voters are sexists.
Posted by: patd | May 7, 2008 12:37 PM

Interesting, nash disappears for awhile everytime I ask this

"Obama won't win Florida & Michigan. Mitt Romney said so this morning."

Mitt also said he would win Florida in the GOP primary. And he got that prediction wrong as well.

(Don't buy into the GOP's false confidence that they have the general election in the bag. They play that game every year.)

jeejee: If Sen McCain wants to ensure that he loses in the fall, he can put Romney on his ticket. Picking up Michigan (a good possibility) won't make up for all the people who just aren't going to vote for Romney as a possible veep.

Well then,

All I can say is, it is your right to vote McCain. I would encourage you too look for truth in Obama, because if he becomes President, you will need it to trust in him.

I personally am Hugely upset for the prostituting McCain has done to his own values in order to run for President.....

And that coming from ME, who would have voted, campaigned and everything else before he started trading the very things I believed in McCain for GW Bush's endorsement.

maggs:

"Once I became aware of the SC talking points memo"

I would like to see that memo. As I recall, after SC, I remember Tucker Carlson (a GOP jackass) reading a bunch of innuendo and nonsense into a very straight-forward memo from the Obama campaign.

The media accused the Clintons of racism - not Senator Obama.

And I would like to see some "hard evidence" that places some of the blame on the Obama campaign - instead of just spin and speculation.

Did anybody see Hillary at her WVA Rally, if so what did she say?

Sheila: I respect your decision. The bottom line for me is that I cannot forgive Sen Obama for allowing his campaign to further trash the Clintons' reputation. For all their faults, their stewardship of our country was largely positive. And Bill Clinton, in particular, is no racist.
From the time I cast my first vote (for LBJ), no candidate I supported ever won until Bill Clinton came along.
As I said, my state will undoubtedly go for Obama, so my vote is no big deal. I just cannot warm up to the Obamas...I even fault them for marginalizing my long-term hero Rev Jackson.

The document provides an indication that, in private, the Obama campaign is seeking to capitalize on the view - and push the narrative - that the Clintons are using race-related issues for political leverage. In public, the Obama campaign has denied that they are trying to propagate such a perception, noting that the document never was sent to the press
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/12/obama-camps-memo-on-clin_n_81205.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4062088

Funny you should say Rev Jackson. Jackson Junior was the one who started the whole smear in SC and Obama shut him down and replaced him because of the smear to Clintion.......I'm surprised you don't know that.

But I can understand that a lot of bad information has been swallowed by a lot of innocent people.

I wish you well.

Warren: The memo was first posted at HuffPo (of all places). It was signed by Sen Obama's communications director for SC. It was finally raised by Tim Russert in a question to Obama -- I forget whether on MTP or one of the debates. He acknowledged the memo, and said that he had told his campaign not to circulate it anymore. This was after SC had voted, however.
The memo included the Bob Kerrey comments, the Billy Shaheen comments, the "fairy tale" comment, the "roll the dice comment" what Bob Johnson said....none of these remarks were positive, but I still fail to see that any of them were racist.

patd: I didn't say all Clinton's voters were racist; I said some of them were, she pandered to them, and it worked.

No one here wants to acknowledge that. I'm a terrible person for even bringing it up. OK.

When McCain wins, you'll all be saying, "Gee, how did he do that?"

ROFL, Bye Bye. You read it anyway you want. Your attacks speak for themselves.

Oh well. What's wrong with calling a spade a spade anyways.

I never thought the Clintons were racist. But I did think they were using the race issue to manage expectations about Obama's wins in SC and elsewhere.

(but it looks like they mangaged their own expectations too much - and ended up underestimating Obama.)

Why shouldn't the GOP be confident? They've won (relatively speaking) every election in the past 20 years except against the Clintons. They simply didn't bother to fix the Florida primaries because they didn't like any of their candidates well enough.
Personally, I would rather see Mittens in the VP slot myself, because I find him the least scary of the possible candidates.

This was posted here some time ago but it appears some need a refresher on "How Barack Obama played the race card and blamed Hillary Clinton"

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aa0cd21b-0ff2-4329-88a1-69c6c268b304

Let's not forget "can you dance like a brother"

Sheila: My point was that, even after the memo, the accusations of racism did continue.
I am retired and have a lot of time to watch TV, read the blogs, read transcripts of speeches (including those of Mrs Obama) and my feeling has been for a long time that the Obama campaign did purposefully set out to trash former President Clinton and, by extension, Mrs Clinton. I guess all's fair in love, war, and politics...

Texas Caucus Fraud

"We saw stolen precincts where Obama organizers fabricated counts, made false entries on sign-in sheets, suppressed delegate counts, and suppressed caucus voters. We saw patterns such as missing electronic access code sheets and precinct packets taken before the legal time,..."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/04/texas-caucus-fraud/

maggs:

They are not racist comments. They are comments that seek to explain why people are voting for someone else based SOLELY on race.

And the Clinton campaign continues to use the "race issue" to this day - by saying Obama has a problem with white voters. That doesn't make them racist. But relying on this tactic so often - does turn people off to Clinton's campaign.

The Clinton campaign should be coming up with reasons why people should vote for Hillary - not why people should not vote of Obama.

It's been fun...gotta go.

Maggisd,

I understand, but MY point is still, "politics" and politics and politics. All percieved race issues were going to be controled by the media, who wanted this to go on and on, bTW.

Now you can all crow about race until the cows come home, but its going to be there and will NOT be solved until all of you can meet the rest of us half way.

Obama doesn't deserve the race crap and neither does Clinton. Racism is embedded into the fabric of our society as WELL as Sexism. The only way both subjects are going away is to practice at getting rid of them.

Instead of contually using both as a weapon. the Moment anyone reacts to either with any emotion, Racism and Sexism win. That is all.

And by the way,

The race card IS the republican's best weapon and THEY are going to inject it. So get ready. I for one and going to fight it, because WE are better than that.

nash, I guess all the issues are racist to you. I'm going to have to follow Sheila's lead until you regain control of your senses.

jeejee, gun safety classes in schools is absolutely stupid. Alicia & jeejee - they tried to make it a statewide requirement in schools this legilative session, but I don't think that passed did it? Anyway - I do know about the issue, how it came up and all that - let me just say that in WV they let schools out for a week in many counties for the start of rifle season (deer). Lots of kids are in the woods shooting at anything that moves that they think is a deer. No jamie, they shouldn't be anywhere near guns, but this is WV, home of the Mountaineer, and kids in the rural areas have guns from about 5th grade. One of Little pogo's best friends got his first buck last November - he was 11 at the time - his father is a lawyer and his mother is a PhD Catholic high school principal (neither of whom are racist in any way I can tell and neither of whom hunt, although the father is a dyed in the wool republican who hates Hillary). The delegates who sponsored that bill were of the opinion that it would help make the woods safer in Nov. They don't care that it encourages firearm use - in WV that's not an issue.

warren, I for one don't blame the Obama campaign for the racist spin (although I did see Axelrod do that on tv). I saw the same thing with Tucker - glad he got demoted. Many of the Obama followers, though, did level that charge right and left (here f'rinstance, as late as today), probably picking it up from the hideously anti-Clinton meme that was the MSM and cable mantra in Feb. & March. It's often hard to separate the campaign from the followers, especially when the newsies and talkies are saying the same thing.

jeejee, just out of curiosity, a middle school in what county in WV?

pogo: and ... I guess NOTHING is racist to you.

There isn't a single voter out there who can be reached with a racist message, and, even if there were, no candidate from one of the two major parties would EVER do such a thing. So let's talk about...the gas tax holiday?

Nash,

Reasoned talk about race is the best way for understanding.

You are acusatory and brash. This technique doesn't belong anywhere right now.

As a teacher you know your tactics just close the door of understanding and you know your just making the divide even wider.....

Now you are one of my favorite people here. You always have been, but you are wrong right now.

If you were talking in a meaningful manner that would be different.

Ok Off the Stump!

May 07, 2008
Categories: Hillary Clinton

Clyburn: Clinton doesn't need to drop

There's clearly an effort not to appear to be forcing Clinton out of the race and Rep. James Clyburn -- formally uncommitted, but recently critical of the Clintons -- said on MSNBC this morning that it's "absolutely not" time for her to drop out.

Good Lynn C, I don't think so either.

More unity will come out of her completing the race, than division.

CBS News Headline: Sen. Hillary Clinton says she is staying in the presidential race until there is a nominee. More Soon ...

Sheila: "We are better than that." I'm not so sure.

The Democratic party needs to convince the "white working class social conservatives" to vote on economic issues. The Republicans will try to "frame the debate" to make race the #1 issue. They are very good at getting the MSM to repeat their talking points.

If the Republicans succeed and make race the #1 issue in 2008, the Dems lose. Again.

I thought awhile ago Hillary was just going to stay in to help Obama out but something tells me she knows something may just break her way. Just a feeling, could be totally out to lunch.

"The metamorphosis was completed yesterday, at the end of both the North Carolina and Indiana primaries. Barack Obama has officially become the Black candidate, and any other opposing White politician has become the White candidate."

http://savagepolitics.com/

nash, I'm from Alabama, fuhchrissakes, grew up in Birmingham during the 50s and 60s, and know that a lot of issues are legitimately racist, but not all of them, and even those issues today that have a racist component are nothing like the good ole bad ole days when everything that even potentially involved both whites and AAs was a racist issue. Even if the NRA had its roots in racism, that does not mean that the gun issue today is racist, although the NRA may provide funding to press the issue and it may be in part in some areas, but not in whole - and that's not how it was protrayed (dishonestly) here by Charlaton Heston or how it was perceived here in the '00 election when it swung a close election from Gore to Bush - it was a hunting issue. WV doesn't have crap for AAs outside a few of the larger towns, but it's the No. 1 issue statewide if you want to mobilize voters - just in front of RVs, no blue collar jobs to be had, and about a dozen other, actually substantive issues. Voters can certainly be reached with racist messages - if they are perceived as addressing legitimately racist issues, whether through disparate intent or disparate impact. And assuming that Obama is the nominee (not an outlandish assumption), guns and Hillary Clinton's husband's alleged racist comments in SC about JJ's and BO's having won there are not IMHO legitimate racial issues. But rail on.

Since Hillary is staying in the game:
Then if BHO going to be the nominee then he has six states to close the deal. If he doesn't then do something with FL & MI and maybe that will leave the Supers out of it but if that does not work then the Supers must do their job and pick the candidate they feel has the best chance of winning in November.

Sorry, I've been away for a while.
Pogo, the town I lived in was named War, and quite a few people there thought that War was Hell. Thus the devil's spawn comment...

Just step back for a minute and think about it, folks. A BLACK man is going to be the Democratic nominee for President.

What do you THINK is going to happen?

I'm not "obsessed" by race. I just think it's going to be the KEY issue in 2008 and the Dems are going to have rough time dealing with it.

To raise a previous idea, if Obama is the nominee isn't this the time to seat Florida and Michigan.

I'm convinced that Patsi just wants to be wined and dined a little bit before she doles out the love. I like it when the cougar makes a youngin work for it a little bit...lol

The only thing Hillary Clinton should be doing today is looking in the mirror and asking herself the following:

"Why the fuck did I let Bill talk me into using Mark Penn?"

I don't think it's a coincidence that her campaign really took off once the idiot was internally marginalized. The fact that he got $5 million from her is enough to justify her filing rape charges with the police.

"To raise a previous idea, if Obama is the nominee isn't this the time to seat Florida and Michigan."

Lynn, I bet the Devil made you say that!

CBS News just updated the story:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/07/politics/main4077977.shtml

If you think race is going to be the issue?

What do you suggest the Obama campaign should do?

I'm surpirsed you guys still don't get it.....seating Michigan and Florida is out of Obama AND Clintons hands.

The credentials commitee at the convention will come together with the two states and duke it out.

BUT, michigan's 9th circuit court all ready over ruled a revoted...and the Obama campaign had said YES to a revote and to let the Floridians count....

Start reading the news more istead of listening to all this fantasy lawyering by fellow bloggers.

Flatus: "Elitist" is a GOP racist code word.
Variations are: "latte drinking East Coast elites," "Hollywood elites," and "limousine liberals."

Note that the Clintons readily adopted the "elitist" phrase, as part of their racist campaign.

Posted by: nash | May 7, 2008 12:01 PM

Apparently Nash has never read THE POWER ELITE by C. Wright Mills ... But Nash looks for racism anywhere and everywhere. I've had many friends suffering white guilt, but Nash carries it to an pathological obsession..

Bear -----------------------------

There has been a conspiracy theory out for some time - Mark Penn was trying to sabotage Hillary's campaign. I might have posted about it here.

What blows my mind, as a matter of fact is that you guys don't reason out Clintons claims as political strategy.....

I mean, no one if going to make a Gas Holiday possible this year.

Clinton keeps calling for Obama to seat the two states and it out of his hands.....

I would have thought you all were more reasoned people than to think this.....

And just like I always do on this blog - if someone takes what I believe is an unfair shot against Obama or his supporters - I am going to hit back.

Posted by: warren | May 7, 2008 11:20 AM

Warren is your testosterone levels overloading? You sound like a punk in a park ready to attack anyone he doesn't agree with.

Flatus

You can call me Geraldine. (re: The devil and me)

The candidates could come together and seat the delegations tomorrow if they wanted to. There is nothing stopping them The current process is through the credentials committee but if there was agreement the delegations would be seated without a credentials committee fight..

It makes even more sense for Obama to do it now and begin the healing. It would give him a shot a Florida.

jeejee. Congratulations on escaping. War is well known. It's in what they refer to as the free state of McDowell County, WV. Edge of the southern coal fields - middle of nowhere. Your comments about devil's spawn probably aren't too far off the mark, but War is the home of Homer Hickam, Jr. - author of October Sky (Actually I think the book was Rocket Boys - the movie was October Sky- great movie BTW). It's among the poorest of the poor towns in WV, and that is saying a lot.

Bear - I agree. I think I asked that question about Penn - or something like it - in February.

But Lynn,

Obama all ready agreed to give the voters of Florida to Clinton..... lol you really aren't readying your news or are you reading the wrong news?

Obama has always giving this whole thing to the Convention. Its Clinton that has been using it as a strategy.

Actually, just this morning the Obama Campaign said that they still welcomed an end to the speculation with the two states. .....

Bill Clinton in NC:

The MSM was too tactful to note this but when Bill recently toured "small towns" in North Carolina, he was touring 99% white communities, the ones that chased most of their black residents out of town decades years ago.

He should have been wearing a sheet and a hood.

Posted by: nash | May 7, 2008 12:10 PM

Nash that's just disgusting and you've taken the dialog to a new low. I hope your tenured.

Sheila, actually, the credentials committee meets on the 31st of May - to try and resolve the issue, all according to Howie. And Howie has called for the 2 campaigns to come together and reach an agreement about seating the MI & FL delegations. I take from that statement that he expects that if they do that, the CC would be willing to adopt their plan and dodge the bullet.

A quote among many .

“I’ll leave it up to the Democratic National Committee to make a decision about how to resolve it,” Mr. Obama told ABC News on Thursday night. “But I certainly want to make sure that we’ve got Michigan and Florida delegates at the convention in some fashion.”

The campaigns are not negotiating with each other, but are talking through surrogates and party leaders about a variety of options

I have seen nothing indicating Obama's willingness to seat the Florida delegation as is. Do you have a source for that.

Pogo,

You and I think alike. ;0)

Sheila, if you say it's out of his control, then he should call Clinton's bluff and jointly ask the DNC, and its appropriate committees to seat the delegations.

And, while he's making public announcements, it's time for him to follow through on his pledge to accept public funding for the GE.

What is the makeup of Oregon that is favoring Obama. I see the makeup of WVA and KY favor Hillary.

giving the Florida delegation hotel rooms is not seating the delegation

y Tamara Lytle
MCT

Published on: 04/03/08

WASHINGTON — Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean said for the first time Wednesday that Florida's delegation will be seated at the party's presidential nominating convention in Denver and will even have some hotel rooms to sleep in.

What he didn't say was how many of the state's 211 delegates would be invited — and whom they'd be allowed to vote for
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/stories/2008/04/03/CAMPAIGN_FLORIDA_0403.html

Pogo, I saw that movie again just week. Funny, the whole time I lived there, his name never came up. They also made a movie about Matewan, and the attempts to start the union there. It starred Chris Cooper, who was also in October Sky. Check it out if you can find it, it's really good.
And I think I know why they call WV "almost heaven", once you get to the top of those mountains, you're pretty close to the sky.

Well Flatus,

Why in the world should he take public funding when a whole grunch of people like me have been funding him on a regular basis.....

Clinton wouldn't either.

We'll seat the delegates when they don't mean anything to the race. How about that?

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/stories/2008/04/03/CAMPAIGN_FLORIDA_0403.html

This was dated 4-3-08 is it still true or out of date now.

I am outta here...

"I'm convinced that Patsi just wants to be wined and dined a little bit before she doles out the love. I like it when the cougar makes a youngin work for it a little bit...lol"

ROFL. Bear, even if my boyfriend Harold Jr begged me to become an Obamabot, I'd have to decline. I'll end up voting for him with even less enthusiasm then when I voted for Dukakis. My initial dislike came when BO's speeches turned quasi-religious, and he seemed to be promising that he and only he could change the world. It escalated with the constant attacks by people like Bye Bye, and a few others. (And of course, I find it impossible not to respond in kind, or worse.)

I had to stop reading Kos and Josh Marshall because of the complete disdain for women, poor people, workers, -- a whole range of people. (Including hispanics during the Texas campaign. I was stunned at how fast their tone could turn to go after anybody.)

But now, after Jeramiah "revved" things up and Barack talked down the working class....I just think he's shot himself in the foot.

We agree wholeheartedly on Mark Penn. But I distrust and dislike Gary Hart and Tom Daschle even more.

By the way, Bear, I' m seriously out of touch. I only recently learned that "couger" is a real term out there. I thought you made it up!

NEW THREAD

Sheila, the only reason is because he said he would. Of course, that was before he got rich.

"dislike Gary Hart and Tom Daschle even more."

Among Barry Obama's friends and advisors along with gay hater Sam Nunn.

Looks like the losers hall of fame

"I want them groveling on the floors of Congress and the Senate for every little crumb they receive, the same way the Democrats have been for the last eight years."

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Pogo,

That's what I was trying to tell JeeJee. Most people forget that news is news because it is unusual. When it comes to children under the age of 15, death by firearms is way down on the list of causes while drowning is right up near the top, and that includes even inner cities.

If you are living in a gun culture location, then it is better for them to learn how to operate the equipment properly.

Hey!!!! New Thread!!!!