Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

I think Hillary should have kept playing the video of Obama mocking her as Annie Oakley. That angered a lot of women--it perfectly portrays exactly what people don't like about him. I only saw that once or twice on MSM--instead they are repeatedly showing his cleaned up versions of "what he really meant to say"

Craig - you're not channelling Oberman are you? Headline was close to his promo about tonight's Hill-bashing, - I mean show. I say kick him in the teeth and to hell with the dem leaders, she's already basically told them where to put their opinions. The 'Big O' can't teleprompt his way out of this one, he's stepped in it, and the media can't spin this one around onto her to the audience that matters right now.

Amazing how most of the coverage has been the almost inaudible recording, and not the clear video that's been going around the web. Guess the msm just can't put their great invesitgative reporting skills to work find that one.

I don't think the Anne Oakly remark casts that much anger from a majority of females. Me for one. This is politics.

Craig, I am wondering the same thing about this chapter in her campaign.

I keep waiting for the magnamonous brilliant person. Her high road has come and gone now.

If anything, she and her strategists should be looking to the future and her "electibility"..

I'm just sitting here in awe, wondering if she understands that these coup de gras will be remembered and she may suffer in the future.

Well, would love to stay and play, but have to get back on the road to the great frozen north!

Here's a very good article from Salon that talks about this controversy, and why liberals often have a vote problem with much of blue collar America. It's true, this trashing of segments of the population has damaged our party -- and it is a symptom of EVERYTHING we say we don't believe in.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/04/15/elitism/

Should anyone doubt that dissing rather than flattering the "rubes" is an aberration, examples of liberal snobbery are not hard to find in progressive publications. Sometimes it's genteel, sometimes it's raw. In an essay titled "The Urban Archipelago" a few years ago, the editors of Seattle's alt-weekly the Stranger wrote: "... And we are the real Americans. They -- rural, red-state voters, the denizens of the exurbs -- are not real Americans. They are rubes, fools, and hate-mongers ... We can secede emotionally ... by turning our backs on the heartland ... We're everywhere any sane person wants to be. Let them have the shitholes, the Oklahomas, Wyomings, and Alabamas. We'll take Manhattan."

Good morning!
I'd hope PA voters would check out HRC's facts. This whole tizzy is so distorted. See another perspective, which includes BHO calling his children before going into the event.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-coleman/i-was-there-what-obama-re_b_96553.html

Hillary -- and the Democratic party --MUST come out hard on this. We've lost too many elections because of horseshit statements like Obama made. You just cannot call people ignorant redneck bigots because they aren't voting for you. Look how some of the Congressional candidates are having to run from the statement. This stuff bites you back hard.

Before I turn this contraption off.

Grannieannie, Thank you for linking that and THANK YOU for being here. Please come more often!

Craig,
I do not like that you always make my comments the last comments and start again right after me with a new thread.
Not only does it make me very bitter and want me go to get my Anny Oakley gun and start the duckunt, but it also makes me want to cling to my faith for a lack of other things to cling on to..... :))

I am dying over here....LMPO.....

Patsi: Thank you for the link to the Salon article...very astute.

What is intriguing (annoying) to me about the Annie Oakley tirade is Obama's difference in tone and tenor than when he spoke in San Francisco and then again yesterday in D.C. He doesn't seem to bring out his "normal folk talk" when speaking to big city elites. Instead he speaks in what I believe is his normal diction (well-educated, obviously extremely intelligent.)

And yes, I cringed along with everyone else when Hillary did her southern drawl in Selma last year.

To Chef Sheila-
Perhaps Obama mocking Hillary doesn't anger the majority of females, but I do think it angers the female voters that he is trying to appeal to--white-blue collar-earning under $50,000-not college educated.That would include me and many of my friends.

Who are the two SD´s who are coming out today in support of HRC. From NJ I heard?
Dutch/UK media on the news this morning......

Try putting the bitterness thing along with the other newbie mistakes he has made.

The WSJ had one of their columnists write a fairly dispassionate op-ed about the whole subject:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120821921853714665.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

Meanwhile, back at the war
dick cavett on petraeus and crocker:

But I must hand it to his generalship. He did say something quite clearly and admirably and I am grateful for his frankness. He told us that our gains are largely imaginary: that our alleged “progress” is “fragile and reversible.” (Quite an accomplishment in our sixth year of war.) This provides, of course, a bit of pre-emptive covering of the general’s hindquarters next time that, true to Murphy’s Law, things turn sour again.
Back to poor Crocker. His brows are knitted. And he has a perpetually alarmed expression, as if, perhaps, he feels something crawling up his leg.
Could it be he is being overtaken by the thought that an honorable career has been besmirched by his obediently doing the dirty work of the tinpot Genghis Khan of Crawford, Texas? The one whose foolish military misadventure seems to increasingly resemble that of Gen. George Armstrong Custer at Little Bighorn?
Not an apt comparison, I admit.
Custer sent only 258 soldiers to their deaths.

http://cavett.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/11/memo-to-petraeus-crocker-more-laughs-please/index.html?ref=opinion

Jon Stewart slammed Hillary last night? Tina Fey slammed Jon Stewart a few weeks ago. Hillary on Colbert this Thursday? Obama should have compared Hillary to Foxy Brown. Now THAT would have been comedy!

HILLARY CLINTON IS SO ANGRY AND MORALLY CORRUPT THAT BARCK SHOULD HAVE CALLED HER MADAME DUFARGE!!!!!!

What I want to know is why the media keeps letting him get away with the "I was raised by a single mother" line. At best it is an exageration at worst it is a lie pandering to create an "up by his bootstraps" image.

Between the time his father deserted them and she remarried was less that two years (food stamp period?). She went to Indonesia and then sent him back to Hawaii when he was 10 to live with her parents and attend Punahou.

His mother came back to Hawaii five years later where his half sister was born. Somewhere in there her second marriage failed but she returned to Indonesia when he was 16 while he stayed with the grandparents.

Deserted by father, seemingly loved but dumped by mother in favor of her independent life while he attended a privileged prep school. Hardly the single mother with no resources.

When I first got a computer and internet access I decided to send my best friend an e-mail. It was the 1st e-mail I had ever sent to anyone. As I started typing my e-mail to my friend I thought "Gee , this font is kind of small. Maybe if I type my e-mail in all capital letters it will be easier for Mark to read it. So that's what I did. A little while later my friend wrote me back. The first thing he wrote was "Why are you shouting? When you type in all capital letters , people think you are shouting." I never forgot that. A few weeks later , I got an e-mail from another friend. She typed the entire e-mail in capital letters , just like I had done before. I wrote her back. I said , "Why are you shouting?" LOL!

mornin' all.

Look, Obama said what he said. He can explain it all he wants, and he will, but the video makes his comments look like he was being condescending. The question I would ask is will Hillary's ad win or lose more voters for Barack? I think focusing on whether it will win more votes for Hillary is the wrong focus on the street. It's not a positive ad intended to attract voters - it's a negative ad intended to drive voters from Obama.

Sturg, you are absolutely right about Petraeus' remarks. After 6 years of the most powerful military in the world fighting a "war" in a large, relatively sparsely populated country, the best we have been able to achieve is a fragile and reversible reduction in the violence? I say declare victory, pack up and come home. Negotiate a good oil contract wiht the Iraqi government to give it an incentive to settle the place down and tell Americans who aren't military to get the hell out. Enough.

And sturg - yo familiar with Melancon guitars? I saw a band Saturday with a couple of guys who had them. Man, they are gorgeous instruments. Here's a link if you're interested. http://www.melanconguitars.com/index.shtml

BTW , Jamie. There is a new Frank Sinatra cd out today. It's called "Sinatra At The Movies".

" doing the dirty work of the tinpot Genghis Khan of Crawford, Texas"

What a fantastic line!!!!!

Skylark

It is Madame Thérèse Defarge and Hillary is hardly sitting around knitting while the press guillotines Sen. Obama.

Dont' know if I'm doing this right, however here is the comment I left about Hillary slamming Al Gore. I guess everyone here who supports Hillary has no problems with her Slamming Al.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/04/caution-polls-ahead.html#comment-67634

Yep...and all the pundits criticized, mocked and laughed at her 3:00 a.m. ad leading up to OH - didn't matter because it was timed perfectly and helped her win OH.

That said, I don't think she should have done a TV ad, I think she should have done radio ads (exactly like Obama did in Mississippi with Hillary's misstatement about Mississippi) - TV might be a bit much.

ubns...I agree with you about the Annie Oakley thing. I was shocked yesterday that more people seemed upset about that than the original comments. Go figure. "Call us bigots but don't you pick on Annie Oakley".

"I keep waiting for the magnamonous brilliant person. Her high road has come and gone now.
If anything, she and her strategists should be looking to the future and her "electibility".. "

Hey, this IS politics. You play to win because you believe you can do the best job -- or you don't run in the first place.

Any day now, I expect to go into a public restroom and see a sign above the hot air hand drying machine: Press button for a message from Barack Obama.

Well...the words Al Gore didn't come out of her mouth. Did you hear Al Gore come out of her mouth? Did she say Al Gore? Maybe she meant Michael Dukakis and John Kerry. I mean Michael Dukakis is the one who famously talked about Belgian endives painting himself as an elitist who was out of touch.

So...you don't know WHO she was really talking about. But it's fair game to keep pushing it...so enjoy. I'm just putting my alternate theory out there.

;-)

LOL

First comes the fake MSM-fueled furor when Obama dares to speak the truth. (It was a slow newsday says Dan Abrams.)

Then comes the cynical swiftboating from Hilla-Rove.

Finally, comes the backlash when people think about what Obama actually said, and when they notice that Hilla-Rove and McCain are saying EXACTLY THE SAME THINGS.

AP

She didn't slam Al, that is the way the media painted it.

Her exact comment was, "You don't have to think back too far to remember that good men running for president were viewed as being elitist and out of touch with the values and lives of millions of Americans".

The Republicans were able to make them look "elite" to the voters. This is something they will do to Sen. Obama as well just by stringing his own and his wife's public statements together.

Hey, Jamie, you're feisty this morning!

Another Poll to look at:

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1327.xml?ReleaseID=1168

"See another perspective, which includes BHO calling his children before going into the event."

How nice...he called his children before he went into an event an told a bunch of rich white folks that people in PA won't vote for him because they're "bitter, typical white, gun loving bigots". That's very touching.

Anon -- read your spin the last thread. The WRITER put Gore's name in and so did Obama. And as a point of fact, the elitist meme DID damage both those candidates badly. Read that Salon article I posted. This sort of image has killed us in elections.

RE: Annie Oakley

ubns and Jamie -- That footage of him made me want to puke. It was so over the top snotty.

Nash, if you think he's being swift-boated, then so be it.

In my mind to be swift-boated he would have to had served someplace, had his documented accomplishments tarnished by totally fabricated lies, and stood by calmly waiting for MSM revelations of how strong his combat record actually was.

I don't think any of that is even close to Mr Obama's situation.

Reality Infection Program (codename Obama)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys68HEA1DLA

Fresh from AP, courtesy of HuffPo...

"Yes, some Democrats in Pennsylvania's Rust Belt communities were upset by Barack Obama's suggestion that voters there "cling to guns or religion" because of bitterness about their economic lot. But many more seem to think it was no big deal _ and if there's a problem it's with the political slapfest that has followed."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/14/pa-voters-divided-over-ob_n_96686.html

The local FOX station here used to runs these commercials where they talked about the way they reported the news. That said "We just report the news stories and let the viewers form their own opinions." Basically , their anchors just report the news and don't give the viewer their personal opinion on any news stories. I think that is pretty much how things are with Hillary and her remark the other night. People are try to interpret just what she meant when she said that and they figured she HAD to be slamming Gore.

"over the top snotty." He has been doing that through the whole campaign. No one ever calls him on the "you're good enough" snarky remarks or when he loses his temper with news people. There is a constant sarcastic tone to a great deal of his off the cuff remarks.

At first I was willing to give him some slack as that just being his style of humor, but there is a mean edge to it that has become more and more irritating as the campaign has gone on.

the most damaging part of the bitter is ..".antipathy toward people who arent like them" thats not getting the coverage ...but the GOP will surely make that the issue ......

anon - she never mentioned al gore .....the media started that and she said the GOP made them look like elitest..she didnt say they were elitest.....thatt has been GOP strategy for years

That's another thing. It seems that this campaign is not so much about WHAT is said , it's been about WHO said it!

Annie Oakley - The way Hillary should have handled it was to thank him for comparing her to Phoebe Ann, the first woman superstar who through her own efforts took on the men and beat them at their own game.

http://www.lkwdpl.org/WIHOHIO/oakl-ann.htm

I think of myself as one of those "bitter" people, but guns and religion are hardly my pacifiers of choice. I really don't think God's going to make it so that jerks and selfish people don't prosper, and going out and firing off a gun would only make me feel like Dick Cheney. I'm bitter and my focus is where it should be: on the policies and egos that turned this economy into crap and has sent thousands of our sons and daughters to their deaths in an ill-conceived, unilateral war. The person who can fix those things will get my vote.

Flatus: "Swiftboating?"

Hillary is losing. She's out of ideas. She can't raise enough money, so she distorts Obama's comments and relies on the typically shallow and stupid "analysis" by the MSM to spread the manure.

But the voters are wising up. They are sick of Bush/Rove tactics and now Hillary is seen as a practitioner of a classic swiftboating scam.

This is the END for Hillary.

tz - I'm with you...EVERYONE except for Lou Dobbs and MoJo a little bit yesterday are not even touching that statement because it is the most damaging. He called them bigots - nice way to win over voters the Dems are going to need in November...good job O'.

When reporters interview people on the street...they don't tell them the whole statement. They ask "are PAers bitter?" "Do they cling to faith and guns"

Instead of reading them the entire statement and asking them how they feel about it - those who haven't heard what he actually said are only getting the cleaned up version MSNBO is giving them. Of course about half of them think it's not so far from the truth.

But the GOP...will play the entire thing in a pretty little 527 ad and blanket the country with it. When they hear the whole thing...they'll enjoy it. He wrapped up a gift and handed it to the GOP and their 527s with a pretty little BHO on top.

obama caught in another fib ..but MSM hasnt even mentioned it

http://blogs.suntimes.com/rezko/2008/04/obama_bomb_dropped.html

wendy

you said it better than i did

"The way Hillary should have handled it was to thank him"

I agree. I would be quite happy with a comparison to Annie Oakley.

Her exact words.

"We had two very good men, and men of faith, run for president in 2000 and 2004. But large segments of the electorate concluded that they did not really understand or relate to or frankly respect their ways of life," Clinton said at Messiah College, referring to former vice president Al Gore and Sen. John F. Kerry (Mass.). She repeated her view that Obama had been "elitist . . . and, frankly, patronizing."

So was Michael Dukakis running in 2000?

I think not. It was Al Gore who ran in 2000, nice try though.

warren, re: your comment yesterday (4:49) - of the primary states that remain, she seems to be doing pretty well in PA, IN, KY, PR and WV, but of course to NYers, those states probably don't represent average Americans.

AP - nice pickup of the MSNBC and Repug TPs about throwing Gore under the bus. Let me tell you something about thaqt comment - Gore lost WV in '00 for one simple reason - people here though GWB understood them and the things that were important to them better than Gore did, because he didn't appear to them to be regular folks. He was portrayed here as a Washington liberal who wanted to take their guns away. It wasn't true, but it was what the voters thought. Hillary was not throwing Gore under the bus. She was right and wrong - what she was wrong about was that he won overall, although in the "gun states" for the most part he lost. Sort of an inconvenient truth, so to speak. Learn from history, please.

If you missed it, check out Vadaryl's 8:32 link.

Latest PA poll (post "bitter-gate"): Hilla-Rove is only 6 points ahead of Obama.

For those of you who actually care about democratic processes (and don't think Hilla-Rove should just steal the election by bullying superdelegates) this is not going to be enough.

SHE'S STILL LOSING.

Nash...in honor of your last post...I just donated a few more bucks to Hillary. I left her note telling her she should thank you for your fundraising efforts.

;-)

wendy
i am surprised craig left that part of his remarks out

Well, duty calls - I have to hit the road. Have anice day, all.

Although it's true that Mrs. Clinton did not specifically say "Al Gore" and "John Kerry" I do believe she did state the years 2000 and 2004, and that would be them.

When she was speaking to the Manufacturers' Association in Pennsylvania and was met with negative groans, she might well have cut her losses and changed the subject. It shows that she is out of touch as she forged forward, with a few more "you knows" and "uhs" than usual, I counted 6 in 60 seconds, and she could not look at the crowd, just bobble-heading her way through her scripted message. She is walking on thin ice by pushing the bitter message. Even Ed Rendell, Democrat hack extraordinaire and one of her biggest supporters, is backpedaling.

pogo...

So are you saying that Al Gore didn't respect there way of Life?

Sorry, but I don't agree.

Reliable Sources:

Has anyone heard the rumor that the man in the Marilyn Monroe porn film is John McCain? Probably not, since I just started it here, on Crawfordslist.

Laugh if you want, but it will probably show up on DrudgeReport within the next half-hour.

"I'm bitter and my focus is where it should be: on the policies and egos that turned this economy into crap and has sent thousands of our sons and daughters to their deaths in an ill-conceived, unilateral war. The person who can fix those things will get my vote."

Ditto what Mary said!

Nash, you've been trying to swiftboat Hillary since day-one.

Wendy: Hillary may use your contribution to pay all those small businesses that her campaign has stiffed.

God forbid she should have to dip into the $109 million she's earned by peddling influence.

"SHE'S STILL LOSING."

Yes, Nash, I'm sure your alliance with some indies and Repubs -- as well as caucus thugs --- will hand this nomination to a man who is certainly not now electable. Thanks for McCain.....

AP...just went back and watched the video and you're right. She said 2000 so she meant Al Gore.

[shrugs]

He's not and isn't going to support her anyway...so who cares. And...I'm sure she would say about it:

"“Obviously, if I worded things in a way that made Al offended, I deeply regret that. But the underlying truth of what I said remains, which is simply that people [think the Democratic Party is out of touch because of their elitist and dismissive attitudes towards small town America].”

:-D

Stinky and I watched MM in Some Like it Hot the other day. We thought it was a real hoot.

If she did a risque flick, so be it. She certainly isn't available to offer any insight as to why.

Patsi: "You have been against Hillary from the beginning."

Actually, I was neutral until Hill-Bill started using racist tactics after S. Carolina. As The Clintons started morphing into Bush/Rove, I began to turn against them. (And so did the majority of Democrats, if you haven't been paying attention.)

What's amazing to me is how many loyal followers are still hanging in there as they slowly take one last swirl around the toilet bowl.

Nash how does leading in the polls in PA = Losing

Twisted...as usual...

And note that the poll remains unchanged from last week and "bittergate" probably isn't factored in.

SurveyUSA comes out today as well...better record this primary season that Quinnipiac so that will be interesting.

So what do we have - yesterdays poll shows an 18 point swing from 2 weeks ago to this week in the same poll

And todays poll shows not change at all from a week ago

Looks like O' has run out of MO.

Flatus -- I always loved Marilyn Monroe. What a great comic actress! Her performance in How To Marry a Millionaire was hysterical. I still can see her in those horn rim glasses.

And yes -- if she did a sex video -- what the hell?

Thinking of great film beauties....which was what someone, maybe Renee, was looking for the other day...I guess my vote would go with Ava Gardner. I always heard that Ava was the only woman whose looks intimidated Elizabeth Taylor.

What if Hillary or Mccain would of said what Obama said about voters in SC, how would that been received?

"So are you saying that Al Gore didn't respect there way of Life?"

AP - you didn't read Pogo's entire comment

He said:

"He was portrayed here as a Washington liberal who wanted to take their guns away. It wasn't true, but it was what the voters thought."

So he says it wasn't true what they thought about him...it's just that there was a certain perception.

[stepping in because me thinks Pogo is on the road]

Don't you just love the line that Pastor Wright used, stuck on stupid! What a great line.

Imus was using the line all morning on his show.

Hillary comes across as a shape-shifter.

vadary
he has a lot of great lines ......how about GD america
the general in new orleans coined that phrase during katrina fiasco where have you been

"I was neutral until Hill-Bill started using racist tactics after S. Carolina."

Bull. Neither of them were racist. It was racist for everyone to pile on Jesse Jackson as if he was chopped chitlins. You ain't seen racist, my friend.

"Actually, I was neutral until Hill-Bill started using racist tactics after S. Carolina."

This just means your a gullible fool. But then you are a left wing nut, so I am just being repetitious.

Nash, I live in South Carolina and I watched what transpired here before, during, and after our primary.

To say, "... Hill-Bill started using racist tactics after S. Carolina." isn't just wrong, it's intellectually dishonest.

Thanks to Obama's statement he is going to make tomorrow's debate more interesting. Great timing! I guess we can thank the Huntingtonpost for putting it out there. I hope it's not another lovefest. I hope they have a real debate this time.

"Both Clinton and Obama spoke today at a forum sponsored by the American Alliance for Manufacturing in Pittsburgh.

But someone who was in the room at the time (and doesn’t back either candidate) said the videos exaggerate the response. In the roomful of 1,600 people, only “a handful” were making noise. “I think it was a pocket of a few ladies near the microphone who happened to be very vocal,” he said. Also, NBC’s Andrea Mitchell reports, per the Clinton campaign, that the objectors were a group of pro-Obama SEIU members."

http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/trailhead/

Thinking of great film beauties....which was what someone, maybe Renee, was looking for the other day...I guess my vote would go with Ava Gardner. I always heard that Ava was the only woman whose looks intimidated Elizabeth Taylor.

Posted by: Patsi

a trivial topic suits my propensity.

Perhaps my opinion is biased by my profession but I prefer Audrey Hepburn and Grace Kelly to both.

toast

Maybe the line has been used before and he has uttered a lot of other lines but this one we can all have a little fun with. It's not that hurtful of a line like some of his others.

Imus was using the "stuck on stupid" line as from Rev. Wright because he was referring to Wright's using it to describe Sean Hannity......he knew the general used it during Katrina......

I did know that ABC has the debate tomorrow. Charles Gibson did a great job when he hosted the last one. This one should be good.

On the CBS front for the NC debate:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04152008/tv/obama_could_snub_katie_106563.htm

Notice how whenever anyone quotes Obama directly his supporters claim he is being unfairly portrayed and misunderstood.

The bitter voters are indeed Obama supporters...you sure see that here. Mr. Latte te da seems to have run out of gas.

LOL

Goodness Nash, Slapped down three times in a row.
To use one of those bitter, gunlover, folk sayings

I don't think that dog hunts, better trot a new one out.

Jack

dikipedia entry for mccain

http://dickipedia.org/dick.php?title=John_McCain

Good Morning. I think you have to connect the dots with Obama from start until now and it shows a very scary man. As for Anne Oakley, how sad and desperate he is, he knows he is going down.
Interesting that the word Marxism has been mention several time in the media.
Obama needs to keep talking, the more he does the more we see what a pathetic man he is. And people want him as president, shame on them.
Keep in mind it was what he said BUT also who he was talking to when he said it. It truly showed who he really is.

Flatus: Of course you can't hear the Clinton racist code words. They're designed to slip by educated white liberals and go right to the remaining rednecks who still vote for Democrats. That's the Clinton "base."

You know, the bitter, church-going gun-nuts who just got laid off when Wal-Mart gave their job to a Mexican.

More than anyone else, they want SOMEONE TO BLAME.

Jews? (Hasn't worked since 1932.)
Blacks? (Too obvious.)
Elitists? (Perfect, assuming they know what it means.)

Imus was just having fun with it during the show. I think even Hannity laughed a little about the line.

God forbid Clinton should upset The Precious!

Quick, somebody get him another pillow!

To say, "... Hill-Bill started using racist tactics after S. Carolina." isn't just wrong, it's intellectually dishonest.

Nash and intellectual dishonesty --sun rises.

Who can forget the famous book of racist code words Nash posted
...oh and one of the listed ones for angry whites to know when someone supports racial equality is Bill Clinton. .

SurveyUSA: Clinton Ahead By 14 Points In Pennsylvania

Wait until the end of the month when Pastor Wright is the keynote speaker at a NAACP event in MI. We may have some more lines to have fun with.

Loved Ava Gardner. My favorite of her movies was Barefoot Contessa, but you don't get much more beautiful than she was in Bhowani Junction

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/graphics/slideshows/ava/abhowani2.jpg

from the entry:

Like his father and grandfather, McCain enrolled in the United States Naval Academy. There, he earned over 100 demerits. His reaction was that it was "bullshit."

But it was in his off-base activities that McCain truly excelled. According to one classmate, "being on liberty with John McCain was like being in a train wreck." It is unclear what being with McCain during his presidency would be like for the nation. Unfortunately, America has no direct experience from which to draw with a president who was a temperamental son of a distinguished military man and who in college was a temperamental fuckup who liked to party. What could possibly be so dangerous about that?

McCain graduated from the Naval Academy in 1958, ranked 894th out of 899. As historians have noted, there were five people in his class who were actually bigger fuckups than McCain, but none of them are running for president.

McCain, commissioned an ensign, spent two and a half years training as a naval aviator in Pensacola. There he earned a reputation as a party man, drove a Corvette, dated an exotic dancer named "Marie the Flame of Florida," and, as he would later say, "generally misused my good health and youth." But at least when it came to flying, he took his responsibilities seriously.

Just kidding. He didn't care about those either -- he was a below average flyer, and couldn't be bothered to read his aviation manuals. But, as many noted partying experts have asked, what good could possibly come of reading manuals? It's not like one might have a situation in which one's plane would quit while landing and crash into Corpus Christi Bay, or be flying too low in Spain and take out some power lines, or crash while en route to Philadelphia for an Army/Navy football game.

.".................the Clinton racist code words............
Elitists? (Perfect, assuming they know what it means.)"

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Nash,
Stop it man, you are killing me
LOL

I think you ready for big time comedy
LOL

Jack

Before all you Hill-heads get muscle sprains from giving each other high-fives....

(1) The backlash against Hillary's swiftboating has only just begun. Watch how it grows as we approach the PA primary. Obama could actually win it.

(2) Even if she won PA by 5%, Hilla-Rove still can't win the nomination. She won't be able to get enough pledge delegates.

And...

(3) The superdelegates are running away from the stench that is the Clinton campaign.

You guys are like the band on the Titanic. You won't stop playing until the water is washing around your ankles.

tz

Don't bother mentioning the polls that show Hillary gaining or winning. Only the ones showing a narrowing or win by Sen. Obama will be quoted on air even if they are the most inaccurate so far.

Hi and bye ~ play nicely

http://i30.tinypic.com/fub3u0.gif

If you go back and look at SurveyUSA polls in other states they have been pretty accurate compared to some of the others. Here is their survey on Obama's copmment:

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=64213e7a-6e7b-469a-b962-3ffdf68fe86b

pogo.....thanks for the melancon guitar link.....it is indeed a pretty instrument......I cant afford any such thing as a new guitar so I have learned to stick with my old telecaster

"SurveyUSA: Clinton Ahead By 14 Points In Pennsylvania'

TZ...you have a link...not seeing it on SurveyUSA site...

why do people persist in making wishful predictions....que sera sera basically.....predictions are for bozos on tv......but then, we're all bozos on this bus.......

Do you have a link for SurveyUSA 14 point lead in PA. I can't find it on their site. I found the last one they did last week.

Nash: "You guys are like the band on the Titanic. You won't stop playing until the water is washing around your ankles."

Please realize Nash has given you a promotion, to a luxury liner in the Atlantic. A few posts back, you were aboard the SS Hillary for some final swirls around the toilet bowl ...

I concur with Nash. Hillary's overplayed this one.

Posted by: nash | April 15, 2008 9:52 AM

lololol
One might say the same of Obama supporters who cannot accept their guy cannot close the deal and has hit the wall.

Oh and puleese don't quote him accurately --it might hurt someone's feelings.

Good Morning Craig, Everyone:-))

I wonder if all the disciples of the messiah Obama will be out today, they are a feisty lot they remind me of those little mischievous little gremlins in the movie of the same name. Just spreading chaotic mischief all over the place wreaking havoc wherever they go.

You cannot debate them simply because the facts and evidence all are on our side so they resort to insults defamation of character and all round vituperative behavior.

They love to talk about the Primaries because Obama has the advantage in money, and delegates but it ends there.
First there is no guarantee that he will win the nomination, now having prefaced that let's move onward .

At this point in time Obama due to his arrogance/ extreme left wing radical / Marxist agenda he has effectively shot himself in the foot. If and it is a big "if" he should win the nomination he is a lame or dead duck in the general election and it will not be because McCain is such a great candidate it will be because of Obama's isolationist left wing elitist agenda will be so out of line with mainstream America it will cause him to lose and McCain to win the election, not so much because of popularity but simply by default because McCain's policies will be more in line with mainstream America.

I am going to try to explain this as guilelessly as possible for extremist radical minds to understand.

In order to win a general election, in polling [a science extreme liberals cannot or refuse to understand] you need to be polling ahead of your opposition in some major demographics or constituencies, so now let's take a look at the messiah Obama's demographics due to his Marxist anti religious rantings that cost him the Hispanic vote Catholicism is a very important part of Latin Hispanic culture they will trend toward McCain and that's a given now with his last debacle, Cubans are predominantly republican and already were in the McCain camp. He lost the Jewish vote thanks to his assault on religion but more importantly he is surrounded by many borderline anti Semitic advisors inside his foreign policy camp with Jimmy Carter, Zbigniew Brzezinski and a few others that can be put in thee pro Islamists category. With Jimmy Carter's meeting of Hamas leaders suffice to say that Jimmy Carter's endorsement of Obama Will be the gift to McCain that will keep on giving just imagine the ammunition the GOP war machine has Jane Fonda and Carter meeting with Hamas endorsing you, so now the messiah as lost the Jewish vote, when Reagan ran he received approximately 40% of the Jewish vote, latest internal polling suggests McCain may very well double that.

Now independents, Obama was going to have a difficult time with them from the git go...the bad news for Obama is the largest growth in Independents has Ben in the non deep and deep south by up to 40%.

In the last 30+ years Independents have voted in ratios of almost 2-1 for republicans, Independents tend to be libertarian-like socially yet fiscally conservative on average and generally they vote with a fiscally conservative pedigree. The latest internals show McCain very appealing to Independents with him holding a 20+ lead over Obama with Independents.

Finally there are the Reagan Democrats I do not have to to go into great detail here because we know they will hop the other side of the fence and Vote McCain.

Obama Is in trouble with his own base 24% of Hillary supporters will vote McCain. Obama has yet to show he can dominate any major demographic in any internal poll.

These are valid arguments Hillary must make to the super-delegates. We need to put all this Obamamania aside and look at what is best for the Democratic party and do everything possible to maximize our chances to win in the general election.

It is time for the Democratic Party to wake up, we cannot and should not nominate a candidate that preaches a Marxist agenda straight out of Karl Marx handbook and this "communist manifesto" psychobabble. Basically what Obama was saying to the left wing freak a zoids in S.F. was that capitalism will lead to internal struggles and breakdown Obama tried to disguise phrasing it differently..."a rose by any other name should smell as sweet"

In good news for Hillary supporters that you will not hear on MSNBC....A new poll of likely voters in the Pennsylvania Democratic primary shows Sen. Hillary Clinton skyrocketing from a deadlock to a 20-point lead over Sen. Barack Obama in just one week. An American Research Group survey April 5-6 had the candidates in a 45-45 tie. But the group's latest polling, April 11-13, has Clinton leading 57-37.

Hillary supporters stay the course don't give in victory is in our grasp :-))

--Heather

U.S. Rep. Geoff Davis, a Hebron Republican, compared Obama and his message for change similar to a “snake oil salesman” [at a Northern Kentucky Lincoln Day dinner].
He said in his remarks at the GOP dinner that he also recently participated in a “highly classified, national security simulation” with Obama.

“I’m going to tell you something: That boy’s finger does not need to be on the button,” Davis said. “He could not make a decision in that simulation that related to a nuclear threat to this country.”

from crooksandliars.com

Survey usa poll
http://www.nbc10.com/politics/15884424/detail.html?dl=headlineclick

at a "Lincoln Day Dinner"

lolol.......cant make it up.......

The "I never met Auchi" line is going to hurt and one can only wonder why Rezko's lawyer brought it up. The closeness to the house sale smells and this all feeds the qpq suspicions. By connecting Rezko/Obama/Auchi, I suppose investigators now have reason to explore even more. Unlike Rich, this is a rather large web and only serves to hound Obama all the way forward. 2005, a broke Rezko, an controversial Auchi and the an Obama house.

Trouble is Obama says he never met Auchi, let alone spoke to him. Why would he say this when it wasn't true?

wendy

TPM has an article about it in election central

I admired Annie Oakley. I loved the musical ANNIE GET YOUR GUN...

Trouble is Obama says he never met Auchi, let alone spoke to him. Why would he say this when it wasn't true?

Posted by: Maxtrue

Obama says whatever he feels like and then his apologists and spinners come in and tell us what he really means. He meant he never met him in the spiritual sense or knew him in a "real" way.

Thanks for the poll link

Max
Obama is doing a good enough job screwing himself. You don't have to go looking for tenuous connections that in the end just make you and your cause look silly.

Jack

if pointing out that someone has lost is a "slam" the democrats gotta lotta "slammin' " to do.......but not at Bill Clinton.......

Obama tried albeit somewhat unsuccessfully to answer a question in a heartfelt way that like Negros of slavery time who also turned to Religion & Music due to oppression and hard times and that small town America has very little to look forward to and so too turned to religion and hunting as a normal outlet and sometimes blamed their plight on immigrants! This excercise in "honest" judgment has been blown out of all proportions and taken up by Hillary & McCain and some in the Media to exploit for political gain, albeit with dishonesty and distorted statements to demean Obama for being honest. We have to asks ourselves as Americans "would we rather have politicians that lie to us or ones that tell us the truth no matter what?" Hillary's current assertion that her father taught her to "shoot ducks" behind the cottage that her grandfather built on Lake Winona as a little girl smells alot like "Bosnian Sniper Fire!" And, now we have Bill Clinton going around with his current False take on "bitterness" as another example of another -- excuse my blatantness -- "lying politician", with the following performance...

B. Clinton "[s]ays at campaign railly in Corydon, Indiana that throughout seven stops in North Carolina, 'Everywhere I go there are all these people with signs, saying I’m not bitter - I’m not bitter.' ABC’s Sarah Amos says his comments were well-received but 'not entirely accurate.' For instance, she says there were no signs at his rallies saying 'I’m not bitter,' as he claimed." -- This political couple has No Shame!

However, in light of the current fire storm and questionning and psychoanalyzing about the "bitterness" of small town America, maybe Obama has done us some good and we can finally bring or shed some light on just how bitter (or not) we really are and better yet -- the "Root Cause"!

Corey,

Re: ALL CAPITAL LETTERS

I got the same reply from a co-worker when we first got access to email and instant messaging. I felt it was a stupid concept, but figured "when in Rome" yada yada.

So, here's my question: Craig often ignores custom and types his comments to us in all lower-case letters. Does that mean he's whispering? Or is he just channeling e.e. cummings?

or don marquis......

http://www.donmarquis.com/readingroom/archybooks/song.html

EdVB: craig types in capitol letters.

This is the END for Hillary.

Posted by: nash | April 15, 2008 8:50 AM

People have been saying that since the Iowa caucus results. Nothing new here.

Obama made his remarks at a big bucks San Francisco California fundraiser as an attempt to explain why people in Pa don't like him so much -there was no heartfelt attempt to do anything. And to pander to the anti gun and anti organized religion sentiment of the crowd

There is no need for conversation on this issue except to point out his hypocrisy. Still waiting for the second paragraph in his conversation on race.

Speaking of bitterness, do you all remember the case in Texas when a guy got angry because he couldn't wear a gun in church?

Maybe that's what Obama was talking about.

note for youngsters: when don marquis wrote, gay meant happy.......

AP - nice pickup of the MSNBC and Repug TPs about throwing Gore under the bus. Let me tell you something about thaqt comment - Gore lost WV in '00 for one simple reason - people here though GWB understood them and the things that were important to them better than Gore did, because he didn't appear to them to be regular folks. He was portrayed here as a Washington liberal who wanted to take their guns away. It wasn't true, but it was what the voters thought. Hillary was not throwing Gore under the bus. She was right and wrong - what she was wrong about was that he won overall, although in the "gun states" for the most part he lost. Sort of an inconvenient truth, so to speak. Learn from history, please.

Posted by: pogo | April 15, 2008 8:59 AM

Pogo, had he understood his OWN state of Tennessee and carried it in the election, Gore would have been President regardless of the Florida debacle. That said, I admire him greatly!

WARNING:
POLL: Marist New York General
McCain 48, Obama 46...
This is a state the Democrats should dominate and the messiah Obama is losing the extreme left dems will never learn and are willing to destroy the Democratic Party for selfish reasons

--Heather

Obama supporters seem to think the best strategy is to say "It's true ! We are bitter!"
But that's not what Americans want to hear.
For those of you who can remember, Jimmy Carter's "Malaise" speech did not go over very well.
Obama's pop sociology explanation of why some working-class Americans are not yet supporting him will sink his campaign.
Here's why:
Over the next days and weeks, Americans in Pennsylvania, Indiana and North Carolina will see the video ( Clinton attack ads) of wealthy Obama supporters chortling over clinking champagne glasses, as Obama explains why working class Americans are not smart enough to support him.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Video_from_San_Francisco.html

Watch the video clip. What are they laughing at ? What’s so funny?

Maybe that's what Obama was talking about.

Posted by: nash | April 15, 2008 10:23 AM

We never really know what he is talking about until KO or Tweety tells us so I guess you will just have to tune in.

But I am sure they would appreciate this as a possibility.

Actually, I was neutral until Hill-Bill started using racist tactics after S. Carolina.
-Nash

That is just such crap...

Hilarious how everything MUST BE BAD FOR CLINTON. No matter the blunder. There must be some angle about any story in this election that is BAAAAD for Hillary.

A backlash from voters who have been insulted by Obama???
Yes, rural Americans are all going to rise up and demand that the Evil Hillary stop being unfair to poor misunderstood Obama!

Sure they will. And then Obama will win Pennsylvania and Indiana and vanquish the evil witch forever!

Can I have some of what you're smoking?

The Survey USA poll is interesting in that no only does Hillary have a big lead with Pennsylvania women, but she also has a small lead with men.

With recent Hillary poll leadsof 6, 14, and 20%, I expect to see the continuation of Obama supporters flailing about on this site, spreading anger,distortions, etc..

I'm to watch with bemusement as the posts reveal the lack of confidence these people have in their candidate.

Off to work..Have a nice day..

Well this is entertaining and all, but I am off to play TV Squares and then watch my DVD of the 1954 television series Sherlock Holmes. Cheerio

i'll send out another invite to join me on Facebook...

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?

or myspace

http://www.myspace.com/eurotom

or don marquis......

Posted by: sturgeone

sturgeone,

Of anyone I read anywhere, you are so so so the most worthy of citing don marquis.

I love you.

One of the best things the NYT did in the last ten years was hire Don Herbert from the Daily News.

He is a Senator Obama supporter who responds rather than reacts.

He's not concerned with anyone's response to all of this except Obama's.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/15/opinion/15herbert.html?hp

Euro-T:

In your last posting you complained about Bush/Rove calling Gore an elitist, and said that "it wasn't true."

That is exactly what Hillary did to Obama, and she then did it to Kerry and Gore too, just for laughs.

Hillary and all of her followers have morphed into Rovian Republicans.

You will do ANYTHING to win. Or, as with the war in Iraq, you will do anything rather than to admit you made a mistake.

When the real Democrats throw out Bush & Cheney, we're going to throw out the Clintons too.

No cabinet seats for these two reptiles.

Hillary supporters stay the course don't give in victory is in our grasp :-))

--Heather

Posted by: Heather

I think your posts are extremely thoughtful and make my rambling unnecessary. Although your magnanimous and modest in your critique of Barack Obama and make a strong case for Hillary it is a larger issue than what's best for the Democratic Party, as an independent I think it best for our country,

toast

"You guys are like the band on the Titanic. "

Yeah, and you, Nash, are among those who arrogantly steered us into the iceberg.

Nash,

Jews? (Hasn't worked since 1932.)
Blacks? (Too obvious.)
Elitists? (Perfect, assuming they know what it means.)

Odd statement. Obama's associates including the playful anti-semite the Hon. Rev.Wright, and James Meeks are trying their best to resuscitate it

toast

I resent your characterization of the Clintons as reptiles.
-the Geico Gecko

(And they are both smarter than a caveman.)

"Hillary and all of her followers have morphed into Rovian Republicans"

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Nash
Man my sides are hurting
You gotta stop man I'm dieing here.
Your comedey is just too good

LOL

Jack

toast....you mentioned that your profession made you prefer Hepburn and Kelly (two greats by the way) -- am wondering what it is?

Patsi:

Is it arrogant to insist that the Democratic nominee should be the candidate who wins the most pledge delegates? (Chosen by the voters).

Your candidate keeps saying that the superdelegates should allow her to steal the nomination.

Hmmmmm
Inneresting over here peeps
Like tha way some people get so worked up over....frankly...nothing.

But alas...We ok. The sun is shining, the weather is ok, and HRC has the polls that give some hope.

We ok here in Amsterdam..... :))

Heather, I like your post....

toast....you mentioned that your profession made you prefer Hepburn and Kelly (two greats by the way) -- am wondering what it is?

Posted by: Patsi

I was an NYC fashion photographer who now only photographs women in conjunction with my wife who is a Fine Arts Painter of women.

toast

Steal?
If someone steals they should get punished for something they should not have done!

If the SD´s want to vote for her, it is their conviction... If they were supposed to vote the way their constituents vote, why the hell do we need those SD´s???

You are scared as hell that HRC will walk away with this because the SD´s will have no choice but to nominate her..get over it... he has come this far. Time to back up and go listen to his bitter pastor Wright. maybe they can go duckhunting while clinging to their faith and their guns, and meet the ghost of Annie Oakley

Mean while a bit of light for Obama as he continues having his stupidity crises.
One of the most important things to winning most elections is to pick the right opponent. Obama has been extremely lucky in this.
It looks as if McCain is choosing to run with Bush the Elders economic strategy, You know the one that did so well in 92.
Looks like this election is shaping up to be a battle of the stupids.

Its enough to make this atheist pray for a God. It may be our only hope.
http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Yzc3MDA1NmIzMzYyYzA3M2U1MzA5N2QyNjY0NDgxOWI=

Jack

Calling Senator Obama "the messiah" is just ignorant.

Wendy

Here are the Survey USA numbers with all the cross tabs

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReportEmail.aspx?g=c79e5bab-a424-49f6-86d6-50c61cf729b7

has anyone seen the Indiana poll numbers from SUSA? The lead has grown to 16 points.....

It triggers me to donate yet again
Today I am happy...So I am donating $100 in memory of Anny Obama, I meant Okalley

Wake me up, I am dying here.....

Interesting that the latest two polls from the 12 -14 are now showing a big lead for Hillary in PA.

On Friday I heard that Hillary may release a bombshell sometime after the debate but before the Primary in PA. Has anybody else heard more about this or has it already been released or it's now a dead issue.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/pa/pennsylvania_democratic_primary-240.html

"Your candidate keeps saying that the superdelegates should allow her to steal the nomination."

If he gets the delegates and the popular vote and hasn't absolutely imploded, he'll be the nominee. I personally think he's already imploded, but we'll see.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/in/indiana_democratic_primary-639.html

Hey Jamie...Thanks for the link. I think that is the 4/8 poll? I know SurveyUSA is coming out with new PA poll at some point today will be interesting to see if numbers have changed. That's what I was wondering if TZ saw today's poll but I don't see it on SurveyUSA site.

I read through the posts I missed. I now have a sandwich to eat. Perhaps I can have some "Haterade" to wash it down. That's if the Obama crowd can spare some.

SurveyUSA links to the NBC10 story not their own web site on realclearpolitics.com. One of their other old polls also links to NBC10.

On Pollser.com they just updated their counts and it also links up to the NBC10 story.

Sorry that is POLLSTER.COM

http://www.pollster.com/08-PA-Dem-Pres-Primary.php

mr. fish

my favorite was mehitabel and her kittens. sad but well done story.

http://www.donmarquis.com/readingroom/archybooks/kittens.html

Let's see the polls after the debate!

No new polls in NC for the 14th yet

Enough with the bitterness. Here's a picture that will delight any Democrat

http://www.pollster.com/presbushapproval.php

Craig, I think you're one of the best analysts on the scene today, but really--"civil tone." What's not civil about this ad?

Results of Clinton's "bitter" attacks:

1. Millions of loyal Clinton supporters dislike Obama even more.

2. Millions of loyal Obama supporters dislike Clinton even more.

3. Legitimizes an aged old GOP attack that has been and will be made against any Democratic nominiee - "an elitist out-of-touch liberal".

4. Gets a nominal amount of undecided voters in PA (that were probably leaning towards Hillary) to declare their support for her. (They have finally found a talking point they like).

5. Gets a nominal amount of undecided voters in PA that don't like negative attacks to declare their support for Obama. (Could be a smaller number than 4 since I think a lot of these type of voters are Independents. The people that have been fighting partisan battles for years tend to believe that negative attacks are a necessary political tool).

6. Pisses of some Super D's

7. Creates an opening for Obama to launch a counter-attack (that may prove to be more successful than the original attack).

Another masterstroke by the Clinton campaign. Don't they realize they could have pulled back and let the media and the GOP do their dirty work?

Stealing the nomination?

If Hillary actually wins the pledge delegate count, and the superdelegates want to give the nomination to Obama, that's OK with me.

She's not electable. All of the Republicans hate her, and that's true of most of the independents, and the progressive wing of the Democratic party. As she herself has said, the MSM hates her. And then there's Bill, the loose cannon. We don't need any bimbo eruptions in October.

No way she can win.

So, if the superdelegates decide to steal the nomination and give it to Obama, that's OK with me. Because as you Hillary people keep saying, it's not really stealing.

Warren: And that smirking tirade Obama went on over the weekend (Annie Oakley/six-shooter/duck blind) is going to draw white women over the age of 40 to him in DROVES if he is the nominee, right? Give me a break. Obama continues to piss off the demographic he doesn't have...

Oh, I forgot. Most of the superdelegates hate her, too.

It absolutely stinks in here today. Adios.

Wendy:

If you want to quote Obama fine. But your catch phrase is a gross distortion of his statements. And you know better.

(I suppose you hope if you say it enough times - some people will simply adopt your characterization instead of learning the actual truth. Very nice : (

Ally:

Most people don't look attactive when their fighting. (Why do you think Hillary, a.k.a. "the fighter", has such high negatives?)

Jack, tenuous connections? Is that what Obama would say to McCain? I repeat, Obama has denied talking to Auchi or ever meeting him for good reason. The only thing tenuous right now is Obama's credibility and how many Jews will vote for him. Obama wants NO ASSOCIATION with Auchi who made billions off of Saddam despite SH murdering some of Auchi's own family. Talk about a snake.

The Rezko trial amplifies the fact that a broke Rezko met with Auchi and likely Obama at a smal reception FOR AUCHI. And Obama and MIchele never shook his had, that Obama didn't know where some of his campaign funds were coming from? Ha ha. Again, Obama wants voters to suspend disbelief. Subsequently Auchi gave Rezko 3.5 million more and some of that money secured the land required to purchase Obama's home. It doesn't take a a rocket scientitst to realize that much of Auchi's money is tainted by the blood of Iraqi children and Obama's ignorance about this whole money flow is NOT CREDIBLE. So dismissing these associations, like others only works to bolster Obamniacs. It will not work on Hillary supporters or even during the general.

As I said, at this point, Obama is a dead man walking. The question is whether he will bring the Democrats to the grave as well. This was Obama's doing, not some lying hate machine. He has a terrible tendency to ignore, deny, and only conditionally apologize when polls drop. This is far from principled and actually quite stupid. He could have vaccinated himself long ago by being honest. Instead, he lied about his involvment and funding with Rezko/Auchi. He hired dubious advisors, dismissed objections about many of his friends and making mentors, icons in his books, now half-spininng them away when others like Oprah have simply walked away. It took how long to denounce the Hamas article in his church's newsletter? This plays to I-am-Carter-meme as he today embraces Hamas in a fine photo op. The intelligence in dealing with these issues despite the MSM being largely on his side is astounding.

As we can see now for weeks, Obama will be under a cloud all the way to the nomination. If he wins then he will be in a storm until November. If he does become President, he will be in a global and domestic cyclone for four years that may very well give rise to a new Reagan and put back the Democratc for years.

This is what the Messiah is bringing and for me, I would rather not see this "hope" and "change". McCain could very well take NY, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Florida. You have posted a list as to why Hillary supporters thin Obama is leading. I have added a list to yours. Together, I think they make a great case to dump Obama and Auchi is just a another nail in the coffin. Yes, there was good reason Obama himself denied ever talking to or meeting with Auchi. It doesn't take a Republican to see that Obama is becoming radiactive in the GE for reasons beyond his inability not to shoot himself in the foot. I expect MIchelle and Barak will be doing the some more. At least Annie was a good shot.

The problem is if Obama has so divided the Party and country, even Hillary can't win at this point.

vadaryl

The North Carolina polls are all over the place. I'm waiting on the new Survey, but here is one through the 14th, but it is an Obama weighted poll

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/nc/north_carolina_democratic_primary-275.html

Warren: Them fightin' words were not what made my skin crawl. It was the smirking. It was the "normal folk talk" completely contradictory to the way he speaks when in front of San Francisco liberals and the D.C. crowd. It was a pure, unadulterated bait and switch routine and it was, well, slimy. He could give Slick Willy a run for his money 8 days a week.

Here is the North Carolina lineup from Pollster

http://www.pollster.com/08-NC-Dem-Pres-Primary.php

I love how nash is using words like hate etc in droves.

Maybe you should see a therapist. If you quicly scan through the posts here over the past let us say 7 days, what is the most interesting negative stat that you come up with...

Please,
If BO was a sure lock whay do U guys have such a hard time of being polite? he leads, he leads, he leads,
She can never win, she is too far behind, she is doomed..
But why the hate...

Or do we know that answer allready

hey guys, going home..it is almost six in the evening here...Gotta go to my tennis sessions...
Next week I am trying a new challenge: Street dance... I´ll keep you posted.

maybe we should do a dance routine on Aerosmith´s ; " Janey´s got a gun!!!!

Really I am dying here.... LMPO

Wake up America. Do you really want your next president to be a professional mud-slinger & fact-distorter? Haven't we seen enough of that already?? Do you really want to continue the traditions of BS that have made this government flounder for the past 7 years? Or would you like someone for once who actually approaches politics and the world from a thoughtful and genuine perspective? This country has become way too messed up thanks to Bush and his cronies for someone like Hillary who plays the same old games to do anything about. The fact that the media and all can blow some comments couched in the context of an entirely thoughtful and respectful dialogue and turn them into this mess is just reprehensible. If McCain or Hilary either one wins, we'll never know what could have been (b/c it won't change a da#n thing). Why p!ss away an opportunity with someone who might have a fighting chance at being able to truly right many of the wrongs perpetuated by Bush & co. just because the corporate media has twisted his words to mean something completely different than they were when examined in context. Shame on Hillary Clinton who ought to be smart enough to recognize such. If she wins the nomination, McCain will certainly win the presidency, b/c the Republicans are always the better sh!t-throwers anyway, so toss away... just toss it all away. Unbelievable.

"Craig ... "civil tone." What's not civil about this ad? -- Posted by: Lynn"

Lynn, not saying I agree that it is an uncivil ad, but that a lot of Democratic leaders are likely to gripe that it is (possibly hurting her among some superdelegates)

Warren...you keep telling me I'm misquoting him. I don't think I am

cling to guns, cling to religion, have antipathy towards people that don't look like them

and yes...I'm adding his previous "typical white people" comment (which by the way is a DIRECT QUOTE) to the mix.

typical white, gun loving, bigots.

Warren...do you know what antipathy means? It means "dislike" so if you dislike someone that doesn't look like you and you know he was referring to black and brown people...because prior to that statement as the video shows he says clearly...they don't want to hear about change from a black guy...so if those typical white folk have antipathy towards people of color...then he's calling them bigots.

Didn't someone say you can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig? He put lipstick on how he really feels about those blue collar voters in small towns that he just can't seem to bamboozle into voting for him. "Why don't those working class white folks buy into my shtick"...he just can't figure it out. Well because they're typical white bigots that don't want to hear about change from a black guy named Barrack Obama. You can say there is truth in it if you want...but I'm thinking calling a certain demographic bigots isn't a way to rustle yourself up some votes.

As I said yesterday...I'm using synonyms but the meaning is the same.

I stick by my characterization of the comments. If you want to get Carpal Tunnel continuing to tell me as you did all day yesterday that I'm mis-characterizing what he said...then you be my guest...but he said what he said and he meant what he said and what he meant was that "they won't vote for me because they are bitter, typical white, gun loving bigots...and that's why they don't want to hear about change from a black guy like me and that's why they don't want to vote for me".

Nash, stop stealling Warren herb.....it has an even worse effect on your thinking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv1N6TVCnLs

"Most of the superdelegates hate her, too."

ROFLMA

"Most" would not be a word I would have chose because out of the one's that have endorsed..."most" have endorsed her. I would say perhaps "some" don't like her or fine "hate" her but at this point...and this is just one's that have endorsed... "most" have endorsed her and clearly favor her as a candidate over him.

:-D

Max:

"The problem is if Obama has so divided the Party and country, even Hillary can't win at this point."

You people are playing right in to the GOP's hands. Do not let their false confidence fool you. McCain is still in deep trouble in the general. It won't be easy - but the Dems have the advantage.

What the GOP tries to do every year is make the Dems look weak and whiny.

So DON'T go there if you want to win....

Suit yourself Wendy. I said my peace...

"As I said yesterday...I'm using synonyms but the meaning is [slanted]."

(I wanted to leave this topic along - but I couldn't help myself)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_qw7If-8Dc

Sorry disgusted...BO is a jerk with a hidden agenda and I don't trust him and I don't buy his shtick. The 8 years previous to ole Bush were quite successful and prosperous and peaceful for this country - despite O's mis-characterization of it - and a Clinton was in charge. So I want a Clinton in charge not a dirty, radical left-wing Chicago politician who is putting one over on all of you.

Craig, she has few options as the MSM does not vet real debate. As someone who has serious reservations about Obama and might be forced for the first time in my life to vote for a Republican, she needs to win and let winning send a signal to delegates and Super delegates. She could say far more damaging and nasty things as Politico points out, but she can't.

Obama has taken many cheap shots and I didn't hear the Super delegates whinning. Nor did I hear much protest when Michelle basically called Bill a racist. I guess Hillary is showing two can tango.

Ally

"It was the "normal folk talk" completely contradictory to the way he speaks when in front of San Francisco liberals and the D.C. crowd."

I talk differently when I am in different crowds. Why? Because I know how - because all my life I have hung out with all different kinds of people instead of remaining in just one clique.

"I said my peace..."

thank goodness...

Nope, Warren, the GOP hasn't needed to play their hand. Obama has set them up quite nicely statrng with a GOP demo of the Clinton era.

I am not a BorG, so resistance is not futile. All that Hillary is doing now is uncovering Obama's act before it is too late.

If the superDs don't like Hillary's ad why didn't they voice disdain for Obama's ad that did exactly the same thing in Mississippi?

The Democratic Party's hypocrisy is what will lose them this election as they pat Obomie on the head when he does EXACTLY the same thing and then criticize her. It wreaks of pushing a candidate down our throats. It will backfire on the Democratic Party as Hillary voters defect from their Party and vote for the opposition.

As is typical in this country as of late, everybody loves to blow crap like this wayyyyyy out of proportion. Never mind that what Obama said is basically TRUE. It is so f-ing unimportant, that it is truly mind-boggling how much press it has received, and how hard his rivals have pounced on it.

It just goes to show you that they have nothing of substance to offer. So, they need to go after non-issues like this, and make a huge fuss. It is no different than the smokescreen the GOP puts out every four years - Gay Marriage, 2nd Amendment, Immigration. The bitterness is real, and the GOP has been feeding it, and feeding off of it since 1980. Now, Clinton has joined them by adopting their campaign strategy.

Way to go Hillary! Thanks for helping put Republican in office for another four years. They won't even need Nader's help this year.

Wendy,
I thought teh same thing..... LOL

Keep telling yourself that Max.

And I don't think he did "exactly" the same thing in Miss - but again - keep telling yourself that Wendy.

You all need some justification to keep up the fight.

I for one think it is quite dissappointing that there has been almost no discussion of the compassion forum (save the attacks). I thought on Sunday night the cadidates talked intelligently about some crucial issues - that will actually have an impact on people's lives.

And all we focus on is seeing who can out-spin one another about these "bitter" comments.

Have fun. I am off to the gym...

"I was an NYC fashion photographer who now only photographs women in conjunction with my wife who is a Fine Arts Painter of women. "

How cool, toast. On both counts. If you have a website and don't want to go public, email it to me at balecox at aol dot com

Wendy, Obama has already laid out his thinking. All those dumb ass racist Republicans and their ideas will be swept away "like breaking to the doors of segregation wide open". He used this colorization long ago. The arrogance in thinking he has a monopoly in playing race is amazing. Since he would admit many in MIddle America have guns and religion and are Republican, we see how this tact will play in Obama's GE approach. And this is why the Republicans will gear up and get quite nasty. Why shouldn't they when basically being called dumb and racist? What a mess.

Sent mail last night. Have a laugh...I've got to work..

good afternoon gang.....
getting lots of work done again today......

Patsi... no... it wasn't me who asked about great film beauties...... but if I did have to pick one..... I'd go with one of Milquetoast's picks.... Audrey Hepburn....
and for pure spunk.... I'd go with Katharine Hepburn....

Craig.... I think that both Clinton and Obama have kept the campaign mostly in a civil tone so far..... it's the media and bloggers that have been uncivil.....
and as far as Obama's "Annie Oakley comments or that ad by Clinton.... it's mild compared to a lot of stuff we've seen over the years.....

I don't care what Obama has to say about guns..... but to say that bit about people "clinging" to their religion is a "macca" moment, IMO....

sincerely,
RebelliousmorphingintoaGOPerbecauseNashsayssoRenee

GO DEMOCRATS!

"Oh, I forgot. Most of the superdelegates hate her, too.'

You forgot the biggest bunch of haters: oinkers. (If the snout fits....)

Email me too Toast...I did some set design and construction for Francios Hallard years back for his West Village properties. If you need any interior work, I'm always available........

I can send you some links...

Could Billary's commercial be more canned? If you want to see inauthenticity, then you need to watch her ad. Oh, Hillary is starting to bore me.

Patsi's use of the term "oinkers" is funny. It's like traveling back in time when George Jefferson would call his neighbor "honky". Or Archie Bunker using a term from the 70s. Right on, Patsi!

"Wake up America. Do you really want your next president to be a professional mud-slinger & fact-distorter?"

No. And that's why I voted for Hillary Clinton.

Could Obama's commercial be more canned? If you want to see inauthenticity, just listen to anything comming out of his mouth. The Chicago machine, ya gotta luv it

Channeling Patsi:

Those jive turkey Obama supporters are nothing but oinkers looking to hold down sisters striving to raise their consciousness. All power to Clintonites who fight the patriarchal ruling class as represented by the oppressive nature of the paternalistic structure of marriage as represented by cheating husbands...oh, never mind...

Oh for crying out loud! My family resembles Obama's remarks and they know it. I dont' think it bothers them and we've all been bitter for a long time. I was bitter in the 80's when Reagan killed my dream to be a social worker. Then in the 90's Clinton killed my dream of advancing in the garment industry where I had a boatload of expertise due to NAFTA. Then in the '00's I lost my job to outsourcing. No one in my family can afford to buy the kind of house we all grew up in that my Dad bought on a mechanics salary. HELL YEAH I'M BITTER!!! And even though I'm a peacenik old hippee, I'm glad my bro in law has a gun because we may all have to hunt to eat someday. I'm glad my sister has her faith because it keeps our family grounded through crazy times. There IS competition for measley jobs and everyone blames someone for it.
Christ people, get over it and look at reality! Obama is right. Hillary is a big phony!!

translation for anything BBB posts.

Nothing my candidate is doing can be defended so I will just troll under a fake name. I'm so cute. No?

"And I don't think he did "exactly" the same thing in Miss"

As usual, Warren, you are misinformed.

"Barack Obama’s campaign has debuted a new radio ad in Mississippi called "Respect," highlighting what they call “derogatory” remarks Hillary Clinton made about the state late last year."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/03/06/obama-radio-ad-targets-clinton%E2%80%99s-mississippi-comments/

I don't care that he did it...hey...that's politics. It's not "NEW" politics...but it's politics. So I'm just saying the superDs should tread lightly on their criticism of Hillary in PA because they didn't say a word about his ad in MS.

MagicMary...you're bitter...ok...but would you consider yourself a BIGOT?

Just asking.

Why can't we all just get along?

Hillary just parasailed over me, those humongous big girl panties flapping in the wind.

Hillary and I were sitting around the campfire after a long hunt. She was cleaning her 30.06 while swilling some Jack when she turned to me and said, "Now this is the life. When I was growin' up in Scranton, I was shooting deer and squirrel on the regular. Now, $110 million dollars later, I'm back doing what I love. What a country."

I looked Hillary, who looked tough as nails in her camo pantsuit, and said that's the woman I want to lead the free world. She as authentic as a Kansas Jayhawk.

Calling Senator Obama "the messiah" is just ignorant.

Posted by: kiki | April 15, 2008 11:09 AM

Most of his supporters seem to think he is the second coming of Christ...

interesting poll analysis...doesn't include the surveyusa which still isn't showing it's cross-tabs on their web site.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/15/102422/579

The Quinnipiac poll which is holding steady admits they were in the field before the bitter flap started so that poll may not yet reflect the bitter bump hilly might get as the other polls show.

Tom,

I think that would make Hillary the anti Christ.

Degrees of Racism in America:

1. People who hate people that are not the same race, do not practice the same religion, or those that have a different sexual preference (for ease of reference I will use a term coined by Lost as describe these people as "the others").

2. People who think the others are inferior - and use this as a factor in hiring decisions and in determining who they will associate with.

3. People who think the others can be equal - but choose to associate with people of there own race.

4. People who think the others are equal and sometimes hang out with the others - but still buy into common stereotypes, make racial jokes and sometimes slurs when they are angry.

5. People who treat everyone as equals - and judge others based on their actual words and actions.

Trying to group everyone into two categoris - racists and non-racists - is a stupid way to deal with a complicated problem.

And I would say people in small towns more often fall into categories 1-4 - because often small towns are more segregated than cities. Accordingly, people in such towns learn about other cultures from the media - as opposed to having daily interaction with them.

Of course there are exceptions. And I also think there are more people in cities that fall into category 4 - as opposed to 5. And yes there are plenty of people in categories 1-3 that also live in cities.

At the end of the day, I think racism falls away the more and more interaction you have with "the others" on a regular basis.

(now I am really off to the gym)

I agree that the election in November is very winnable for the Democrats.

In my view Hillary is the strongest candidate. I know others disagree.

The point is..we must unite in November..

Also..I learned a long time ago...the pundits know little..
I think we shouldn't be afraid of a spirited contest.
I don't think we are a buinch of wimps who can't unite.

so you do agree with Obama, Warren, that small town folks are bigots...

thanks for clarifying.

This blog reminds me of this song...

See if you remember it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKSNHcsqqKM

You are being an ass Wendy.

later...

"so I will just troll under a fake name. I'm so cute. No?"

drink some more hypocrisy juice

Economic hard times always makes people look for someone to blame. I personally don't blame others of a different race or religion or whatever but I have family members who fall into that line of thinking simply because it is an inbred old habit of thinking they fall into by default because they don't really know who is to blame. They've been believing in Republicans who slit their economic throats while they praise Jesus and so they have a hard time blaming them as they should because they're Christians (??? I never got that myself...). Gawd...Obama might not be able to say that but I can.

Nice Warren...but that's typical of Obama supporters when their arguments fall flat or don't make sense...they call Hillary supporters names...typical.

I should have said, my family members blame the EFFECT (jobs going to Mexico, or illegals taking jobs) and not the CAUSE (Greedy republicans who wantonly destroyed the middle class).

MagicMary

First I want to apologize for my first comment to you being too harsh. I admit that it was and I'm sorry about that.

Your last comment is very good and honest.

The problem is that the Democratic Party has been plagued by a particular image and by Obama going to the left coast and telling a bunch of rich white people that small towners are small minded and blame people of color for their economic problems is not going to win the Democrats votes. It is especially not going to win the Democrats the Republican votes Obama professes he can get.

I also think the Dems should be very very careful about painting any group with too broad a brush...it is very easy for those of us who sit on coasts or come from big cities to paint an entire demographic with that brush. As you pointed out in your post...you don't feel that way and I'm sure there are many more like you. It is dangerous for the Democratic Party to go out there and spew stereotypes in front of rich white donors to explain away why people don't want to vote for them.

Hillary did the same thing with her stupid misstatement about Mississippi-insinuating that they were backwards thinking folks to explain why they wouldn't vote for a woman...and she paid the price for it...when she first said it and later in the Mississippi primary.

It remains to be seen if Obama will pay the price for this because he is lucky to have the MSM excusing him and coddling him. But...come the general election there is a very good chance he won't be able to backpedal out of it with voters he'll need to win the general election. Democrats will forgive him...I'm not sure about everyone else.

Tom,

I think that would make Hillary the anti Christ.

Posted by: Bye Bye Billary | April 15, 2008 1:07 PM

Well to hear Obama supporters talk, she is a knight in service to Satan !

btw, I think this is funny

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/play.shtml?mea=239666

technically I should have said "some Democrats" - I'm not sure they all will...

ET - great link...I heard clips of it on Rachel Maddow yesterday...she didn't think it was funny. I do... ROFL

At any rate - how ironic is it that the same guy that plays Tim Russert on SNL is playing McCain.

Wendy,
You're right that Obama came off sounding a bit condescending and this is the crux of an issue that needs to be faced to heal the Dem party of it's division. I took a step 10 years ago by moving from Liberal Portland OR back home to Wisconsin to hang out with my family. It took us a couple of years be we learned how to walk in each others shoes and see with each others eyes and now we're very close. That's not an easy thing to do when both sides have such overwhelming, politically encouraged kneejerk responses that take over when both sides have been isolated and yes, Left coast liberals are just as isolated. Rather than beat Obama up for putting yet another classically divisive dynamic into our faces, lets all meet and greet and talk. My family still resembles Obama's remark but they are my best friends and I'm still a peacenik liberal tofu eating borderline socialist pinko whatever. I work like a dog and they love me for it.

Tom another Bellamy Bros.

Jesus Is Coming And Boy Is He Pissed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvsYE3VBlOU&feature=related

Jack

OK all -- found this comment on a Washington Post board (re EJ Dionne column today) and might have to post it every thread.

================

by commenter crblaisd, 15 April 2008 on Washington Post board:

What a nightmare. Let me say as someone who would gladly pull the lever for Obama or Clinton in November: you people are really blowing it. And I’m talking to all of you, both camps, everybody on these boards that spews venom about Obama or Clinton with this awful, “my candidate or nobody” attitude. What is wrong with you? Don’t you realize one of them is going to have to run against McCain in November? And can’t you see that every day that passes McCain is sitting back and looking more presidential while you dump gasoline on petty squabbles?

And for any fool says “if my candidate is not nominated, I’m voting for McCain” YOU are a contemptible p.o.s. Have you been on Mars for the past 7 and a half years? Do you only check in on current events once every four years for the Democratic primaries and then check out again? Whatever “maverick” image he may have, however charming his appearances on the Daily Show, no matter how valiantly he may have opposed the Bush administration on some issues, the fact remains, in all the most important respects John McCain as president would be a virtual third term for Bush 43. He has surrounded himself with neocons, deregulators and bible thumpers and they are going to run his administration. Whatever the right’s initial misgivings may have been, McCain now has the enthusiastic support of Bill Kristoll, Sean Hannity and Grover Norquist, douchebags all. There’s a reason for this.

So please, everyone, print out this post and keep it. Then, two years from now, when you’re on this very same message board wringing your hands in despair and asking how on earth could we have let the far right keep on running the country into the ground, you’ll know the answer.

Everyone who lives in a bastion of Lilberalism needs to go home and make peace on a personal level with their small town relatives (if they have them and many of them do and are just as hateful towards them - they are mirrors). You all must do this for the sake of peace in our nation!
And then maybe finally we can all stop acting so PISSY about each others blather! How many of those mayors withheld judgement on their educated gay wiccan vegetarian sisters and brothers, I ask you? We are all mirrors!

100 Keystone State Mayors Endorse

"Harrisburg, PA - Showing strength and momentum in the Keystone State, the Clinton campaign today announced 100 mayors who are endorsing Hillary Clinton for president. Following Senator Obama’s remarks dismissing small town America, mayors joined supporters today in Harrisburg to declare their support for Hillary because of her readiness to lead on day one, her plans to jumpstart the economy, and her Pennsylvania roots and commitment to Pennsylvania values."

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=7105

"Do not give into fear and anger, Barak. Use the force."
-Obi Wan Gore

"You cannot begin to imagine the power of the dark side."
-Darth Rodman Clinton

"Soon we shall make him our disciple and my victory will be complete.”
- Emperor (and Sith Master) Rove

911: Thank you for the link to the OP ed in the Times.

"No one has an obligation to vote for Mr. Obama, and it’s certainly not racist to vote against him. But the senator can make it clear that it is wrong to dismiss a candidacy out of hand solely because of the race or ethnicity or gender of the candidate." - Don Herbert

Words to live by. I wish both candidates would focus on this aspect of their respective campaigns rather than continue to fling poo at each other. IMHO, the Democrats are so stupid they have gift wrapped the Democrats as latte-sipping elitists meme to the Republicans and Dim bulb McCain.

What both HRC and BO were trying to say in their in artfully executed remarks is that the Democrats constantly have the "elitist" label stamped on their foreheads while the truly elitist Republican party runs away with the votes the Democrats should have.

In election after election the Republican Party gets decent hard working Americans to vote against their own best interests. Why is that?

I suggest that we just take a look at what is happening on this forum. As Democrats we are essentially acting like two drunken brothers arguing about whose mother is uglier. Doesn't make a lot of sense. While we are engaging in this nonsensical circle-jerk the Republicans are benefitting. Once again, the Democratic Party will snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory.

Here is what Obama said:

"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

Is somebody going to tell me that steel and auto workers who have been out of those jobs for 25 years don't have something to feel bitter about? Is somebody going to tell me that they don't know a person in that situation who doesn't fit the description Obama offered? It may not have been a politic thing to say, but I'll be darned if it's not true. Anyone who doubts it hasn't spent much time among working people in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, etc. Or, perhaps, they're just playing politics.

GAKaren (2:11) gets post of the day!

The Bellamy Brothers - Old Hippie (updated version)

"Just trying to find some balance in a world that has gone insane."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhPVZbINR0w

Jack

Karen

Sadly at this point poo is all any of the three seem to have.

Jack

dog... great post... that's what i've been trying to say for months.. we gotta stop this horseshit *drops quarter into swear jar*... if we don't before we know it, McGeezer will be having fireside chats about why the US had to invade Iran.

Nash,

Re: capitol letters

Sorry, my boss had the nerve to make me work this morning, and I didn't get a chance to respond. Yes, Craig does use/send Capitol letters, but often they are all lower-case.

"meet the ghost of Annie Oakley"

Ha! Jason, I bet she shows up with a Hillary poster in hand!

dog hussein dog ------------------------

"...how on earth could we have let the far right keep on running the country into the ground, you’ll know the answer."

By letting the far left take control of the nominating process - Dems never seem to learn. Obama is unelectable in the GE, Hillary can win.

"Way to go Hillary! Thanks for helping put Republican in office for another four years. They won't even need Nader's help this year."

Idiotic. The Bamatons are already looking for excuses.

McCain's program (so far):

* Massive tax cuts including getting rid of the federal tax on gasoline.

* An immediate freeze on all government spending, except defense, quickly followed by cuts in govt spending to balance the budget. (Say goodbye to Social Security & Medicare which will be "privatized.")

* "Victory" in Iraq.

Looks like a winner to me, especially the gasoline tax cut.

"I talk differently when I am in different crowds. Why?"

'Cause you are phony?

" She as authentic as a Kansas Jayhawk. "

Who just kicked butt & took names.

GORDO and Heather: it is not the far left. Obama appeals to [moderate] Republicans and independents. They are not responding to any "far left" dog whistling.

You are both blowing smoke on that one.

The Democrats' program (according to Fox news)

* Huge tax increases, to pay for sex education in kindergrarten and Cadillacs for people on welfare.

*100% federal tax on beef jerky and donuts.

* Complete confiscation of all guns, even for the military, which will be retstricted to the use of "win-win" negotiation when dealing with terrorists.

*Forced conversion of all churches into pornographic movie theaters.

* Everyone has to drive little electric cars that sound like hair driers.

(I don't see how we can win with this.)

dog, GAKaren, Jeff G...

I tried to say the same thing at one time, but because I support Obama all I got back mostly was the same thing your seeing.

So I too like other Obama supporters posted the negative items on Hillary that I know the Republicans will use and even then it did not stop there.

Many of us who support Obama have been personally attacked for our support, while some attacked back at those who attacked them.

I tried to not get involved in this and I will still bring up items when insinuations are made that belittle and attempt to destroy a good Christian man with what you may have already read on todays post by Craig.

He has been called a lot of names by Clinton supporters as have Hillary by Obama supporters, however the names have been worse in my opinion from the Hillary supporters than from the Obama supporters.

I'm positive that many will deny it though and I'll be taken to task for even saying it, but it is the truth as I see it and I'm sure many Obama supporters see it.

The statement that the Democrats will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory is very true and there are many of us on both sides who have been so angry and bitter by what has gone on over who is the best candidate that they will not vote for the candidate whom they do not support.

I myself also have finally been so incensed that I do not want to vote for Hillary if she is the nominee as I now have grown to not hate her, but so turned off that I will not vote ever again for anyone named Clinton.

That includes Chelsea if she ever decides to get into politics. And I don't care how good a person she may be the anger that this election season has caused many on both sides as far as I'm concerned will not be forgotten.

I'm out of here now so go ahead and flame me, it's something the Clinton supporters know how to do better then the Obama supporters do.

dog hussein dog-----------------------

WRONG

"Looks like a winner to me, especially the gasoline tax cut. "

You must be so proud that you helped bring it along then, Nash.

And dog, for all your "let's get along" talk -- what you really mean is: Hillary needs to get out ot the race and her supporters need to STFU. How many years did you say you've been working for the Democratic party? And how many will you stay? It's like a little girl who thinks Britney is cool one week and Paris the next. Who cares, I'm excited!!!!!

Dear Warren:

3. Legitimizes an aged old GOP attack that has been and will be made against any Democratic nominee - "an elitist out-of-touch liberal".

Warren that assessment is in error the fact what you fail to understand and what you failed to read in my earlier post is that Obama's views may appeal to you and the extreme let liberal base of our Democratic Party but in the general election he is "an out of touch liberal" this is not a new revelation, early on the National Journal portrayed him as such and whether you realize it or not Warren you just made an argument to the super-delegates to support Hillary rather than Obama.

Sincerely,
Heather

I agree with one of your first commenters - Who said she found his Annie Oakley statements offensive. I did too! I am always amazed that there are people who see the same things that I see sometimes. I find that Obama even before these remarks acted very arrogant. My family is made up of black and whites. We have a word for Mr Obama and everyone in the family pretty much agrees. We call him uppity - the black race understands what I means.

MagicMary:

I appreciate your perspective...thanks for hangin' out here.

C'mon Readers,
Get a grip and an intellect. Bill Clinton (remember him? Hillary's husband) said roughly the same thing Obama said in a speech in 1992. Check this out:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/13/bill-clinton-flashback-al_n_96433.html
What desperation. McCain is the enemy. He's the war mongerer.

All:

I think one of the reasons I am so worked up about the recent attacks on Obama - is because the same attacks have been made against me. (You don't have to run for President - or be on a blog - to be personally attacked).

Anyways, I grew up in a small town and was a latch-key kid raised by a single-mother in a lower middle-class family. My "dysfunctional family" (my mom used to say we were dysfunctional before it became cool ; ) had its fair share of drama including addiction, unplanned pregnancy and bankruptcy...

And now sometimes - I may be all dressed up in a monkey suit at some fancy Midtown bar - giving my opinion on small towns. People might over-hear me say: "Those people need to get off their ass and get to work." (among other things). And think to themselves - look at that uppity elitist talking about stuff that he knows nothing about. When in reality - I was picturing my older brother in my mind when making that statement....

(so sorry for being harsh Wendy - but I just think that the attacks are patently unfair..- but we can still be friends ; )

One last thought. I voted for Bill twice. I also voted for Al Gore and John Kerry, however there is no way in Hell that I will vote for Hillary.

She lost my vote which I was going to give her until I heard and saw Obama. If Obama did not get the nomination Hillary would have got my vote, however after seeing and reading many sites and seen the disdain heaped upon Obama by her supporters I can no longer even consider giving her my vote.

I would rather see our Country totally destroyed as that seems to be the only way the People will rise up and return our Constitution back to us. Just like our forefathers had to fight to have the right to write it.

The Democratic Party sat idly by and enabled all the abuses and destruction to Our Constitution by Der Fuhrer Bush and his Nazi following while we cried out for Justice.

Even now when once again Der Fuhrer has stated that he authorised and condoned War Crimes in America's name still will not remove him from office.

If he takes us into war with Iran, which I believe he will, there may not even be an election in November and the Democratic Party will be complicit in the War Crimes that they refused to stop because they thought it would give them the election in November.

My tinfoil hat is in full protection mode now and at this point in my life I really don't care anymore what happens or what people think of me. I'm too tired to fight anymore since it seems I'm fighting a losing battle and no one really cares what happens here in the Homeland as Der Fuhrer Bush calls it as did his surrogate Father Adolph called Germany.

Patsi:

For your information - I do hang out with black people. Always have since I was a little kid - since even though my small town in FL where I grew up had a bunch of red-neck racists - it was also much less segregated than the town I moved to in the NE before high school.

(I also listen to hip-hop and am an excellent dancer for a white boy....)

P.S. - I hang out with white people too...

"100 Keystone State Mayors Endorse"

Is this in addition to the 270 elected officials that are already supporting her? Or is there some overlap in this list and the 270 list? Anyone know?

f

Dear GAKaren

What you say is logical and in normal society makes sense but that logic does not apply in political campaigning for one simple reason going negative works, despite people saying lets play nice and sing kumbyah by the campfire.

Sure in a better more civilized society what you say Karen is true and applaud and support in but in the rough and tumble world of politics at the present time making nice nice will not work. You are living in a world where kindness is taken foe weakness sad as that may be. As Harry Truman once said "If the heat is too hot in the kitchen get out" Right now that is the last thing I want from Hillary

Sincerely,
Heather

Wendy: I also thought the Saturday Night Live clip that ET posted was hilarious. What did Rachel think was wrong with it?

Obama does better against McCain than Clinton in Michigan poll- Kathy Barks Hoffman-AP Monday April 14, 2008, 1:44 PM

Here's an interesting poll for everyone.

http://www.mlive.com/elections/index.ssf/2008/04/obama_does_better_against_mcca.html

Warren...if you were sitting in a bar in a suit and saying those people need to get off their asses and get a job when really you meant your brother needs to get off HIS ass and get a job...then I would say I'm right in my post to MagicMary about the danger of sitting on a coast in a big city painting with a broad brush.

To make a statement like get off your butt and get a job insinuates there is a job to get or that they haven't tried. Perhaps your brother hasn't tried...but is that true of all small towners that can't get a job?

You're not running for office so it's ok if you sit in a bar and paint with too broad a brush and say dumb, sterotypical things about people that live in small towns...but when the Democrats need those same people to vote for them in order to win an election...one might hold their tongue or think it through a little bit before opening his mouth.

And yes...I do hope we can still be friends.

You people, on both sides, can cling to the caricature of the other candidate in your head if you must. After all this is politics - and there are no rules.

Often we need to demonize the other side in order to justify our own position.

But - I think it is more intelligent (and definitely more strategic for the general) to acknowledge - what almost everyone has on this board at some point or another - that there are two great candidates on the Democratic side.

And each would make a far better President than John McCain given the current times. But at the end of the day - you prefer one of those candidates over the other...

She says SNL was over-correcting for being too pro-Hillary and wanted to go way negative. I worry that Rachel may not have a sense of humor and I think she's pissed about how the Democratic primary is going...she senses a loss coming down for the Democrats (she hasn't said that - it's in her tone). She even admitted thinking the Bosnia flack was really stupid as well...which I found interesting since the rest of Air Obama obsessed over it. She is, of course, equally as upset about the coverage of Rev. Wright and now the bitter bigots flack. Poor thing just wants a Democrat to win and is taking it all very seriously so SNL...not funny.

Wendy:

Lets agree on the premise that poor people need more assistance from the government. They may need welfare, medicaid, student loans, etc.

What to they like to hear - once I get elected - I am going to make everything better and you will be prosperous. In other words, pandering.

What they need to hear - once I get elected - I am going to do everything I can to help you - improve government programs, increase jobs, etc - but you are also going to have to do your part - and get off your ass and work. (Some people may not have to be told that - but some people need a swift kick in the ass....)

(please insert "some" whenever I forgot to put it in there...)

Interesting bit of trivia. God's representative on earth outranks government leaders.

The President is going to Andrews AFB to greet the Pope when he lands. When a head of state lands, the President stays at the WH and greets them when they arrive on his doorstep.

I don't see how the skit was pro-Hillary but it sure is amazing how people see things differently...

I was just on Facebook and found this... no matter what you think of the OBAMA people, they are really masters at organizing! Check this out:

Information
Event Info
Name:
Apply To Become An Obama Fellow
Tagline:
Are you ready to be a part of a new generation of leadership?
Host:
Students for Barack Obama
Type:
Causes - Rally
Time and Place
Date:
Monday, May 5, 2008
Time:
12:00am - 11:55pm
Location:
The United States
City/Town:
Chicago, IL
Contact Info
Email:
fellowship@barackobama.com
Description
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This summer we are looking for students and recent graduates who want to be a part of a new generation of leadership that believes, like Senator Obama, that real change comes from the ground up.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*******************************************************
******APPLY: http://my.barackobama.com/facebookfellows ******
********************************************************

Fellows will be trained on the basics of organizing & campaign fundamentals and then placed in a community to carry out grassroots activities. Fellows will be asked to commit to a minimum of 30 hours per week and will:

--participate in training on field organizing, messaging, and
other activities
--organize in a community, working in conjunction with
grassroots leaders and campaign staff
--continue to build the movement

Apply:
--Applications are due at the latest by Monday, May 5th at midnight eastern time.
--We strongly encourage individuals to apply early.
--Applicants should expect to receive further communication in May.
--Program participation will start on June 5 and run through the end of the summer.

*******************************************************
We are accepting applicants from anywhere in the country and will be placing them in communities throughout the United States; you do not have to travel to Chicago for the fellowship.
*******************************************************

Note: this is an unpaid position.

*******************************************************
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Invite All Your Friends To The Event!

Questions? Email Us: fellowship@barackobama.com

History. Stinky tore up her voter registration after the last time I ran, and was defeated. She thought the other people stuffed the ballot box.

They didn't. I ran a lousy campaign; my heart wasn't in it, and I filed because no one else would. I deserved to lose.

But, she still hasn't re-registered. She says she never will and I believe her.

Truthfully, it was a mean spirited campaign. Not just the attack ads, but the threats against the firefighters (their union endorsed me), and there were people following the truck delivering the community newspaper, picking up the bundles as they were dropped off, just because my ads were in them. And, of course I was told I was just as bad as Saddam, and that I was supported by the special interests.

The people who supported me were really great. They brought me cookies, stuffed envelopes, made phone calls, and all those other things that make running a pleasure.

Now, I just wrote seven lines about the bad stuff and three about the good. It's kind of like that here right now. A lot more bad than good. And that's for the candidates in the same party.

Our country will survive no matter who wins. Even if it's Mr McCain. Whoever wins, we have to lead that individual in the right direction. And, if we manage to have a veto-proof majority in the Congress, our ability to work with the administration will be greatly enhanced. Yes, we will survive.

Am I in favor of my candidate winning? You're darned right I am. But really, is it worth participating in the process if it so demeaning to the candidates and, yes, to us?

Well I think the actress that plays Hillary is brilliant !!! LOL... love her!

more details on surveyusa poll w/ crosstabs

Despite this movement, the polls have been consistent over time; in four polls, Clinton has never received less than 53% or more than 56% of the vote; Obama has never received less than 36% or more than 41%.

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=8664c40b-fd41-4ff0-9a55-655afea1a9bf

This poll reflects similar results from ARG yesterday. 3% undecided and 3% other

Warren,

I don't know if you saw it up thread, but I questioned the whole "raised by a single mom" meme that Sen. Obama points out. Except for one short period between his mother's first and second marriages, he led a fairly privileged life, and the media lets him get away with the description. At best it is an exageration at worst it is a lie pandering to create an "up by his bootstraps" image.

Between the time his father deserted them and she remarried was less that two years (food stamp period?). She went to Indonesia and then sent him back to Hawaii when he was 10 to live with her parents and attend Punahou (Elite private school).

His mother came back to Hawaii five years later where his half sister was born (Also sent to Punahou when older). Somewhere in there her second marriage failed but she returned to Indonesia when Barack Obama was 16 while he stayed with the grandparents.

Deserted by father, seemingly loved but dumped by mother in favor of her independent life while he attended a privileged prep school located in paradise, and even in its rougher areas no one is going to freeze or starve. Hardly the single mother with no resources.

Not quite Magnum PI, but he wasn't suffering.

Ally...Rachel was saying that the skit was meant to be anti-Hillary and show her in a bad light as a response to the MSM saying SNL was in the tank for her after some very pro-Hillary skits. She said they went too far the other way and didn't think it was funny. I actually thought it was really funny and pretty much thought it made fun of just about everyone portrayed in it.

Official opening for 5 more Hillary offices in Oregon today..Whoever you support..get involvd..it is lots of fun and very important..

ET: I loved Amy Poehler in Mean Girls (Cool Mom) and I am excited for Baby Mama! I adore her.

Jamie: Yes, when is someone in the media going to call Obama on this "exaggeration" of the truth?

Warren...I think we've beat it to death...you continue to paint with a broad brush similar to Obama's broad brush insinuating people from small towns are lazy and need to get off their ass...Obama says they are gun loving bigots frustrated by hard times.

I don't agree with these broad, stereotypical statements from either of you - so we're at an agree to disagree.

Wendy! OK...got it. I read your first e-mail wrong. Duh Award of the Day here.

Jamie:

Being deserted by your father at a young age doesn't entail any suffering??!

Again, I was not desitute - but being from a divorced family when it was not as common as it is today came with its own struggles.

I think being born into a bi-racial family, being left by his father, growing up in foreign places where he was always an outsider - are all struggles that have strengthened Obama's character.

(Privilege does not simply mean a high income).

RCE Averages Vs. McCain

Pennsylvania
Clinton +8.5
Obama +3.5

Ohio
Clinton +2.8
Obama -5.2

Florida
Clinton -.3
Obama - 11.7

Wisconson
Clinton -4.7
Obama +2.0

Great Wendy.

Well I am glad you are taking that position. I guess we won't have to see anymore broad, stereotypical statements about Obama supporters from you anymore.

(nice job getting out your catch-phrase again)

Results of Clinton's "bitter" attacks:

2. Millions of loyal Obama supporters dislike Clinton even more.

7. Creates an opening for Obama to launch a counter-attack (that may prove to be more successful than the original attack).

Posted by: warren
warren, i thought I would address some on your points.

How is Clinton responsible for this bitter tempest?

BO's lap poodle Matthew's said to Andrea Mitchell today that Hillary was wise to attack "Dorian Gray" because in politics you play to win and this flaunted her strength and tenacity as a fighter. Matthews thought it contrasted the demonstrable WEAKNESS of Barack Obama for not seizing the moment a week ago when he had the opportunity to attack Hillary on Bosnia.

2. Politics is messy, all we can ask of each other is civility.

7. Your Neville Chamberlain isn't up to the task. It takes a spine and my namesake {Milquetoast} hasn't the stomach for it, your mistaking him with Elizabeth 1.

Regarding the media, Scarborough told Mika this morning that the MSM is in the tank for Obama before he would let her read editorials that lambasted Clinton. One of the two was by Richard Cohen of the WP, who stated weeks ago on CNN he was ashamed of his biased reporting in favor of Obama.

toast

Warren...thanks

;-)

She lost my vote which I was going to give her until I heard and saw Obama. If Obama did not get the nomination Hillary would have got my vote, however after seeing and reading many sites and seen the disdain heaped upon Obama by her supporters I can no longer even consider giving her my vote

Posted by: anon-paranoid | April 15, 2008 3:04 PM

[snip! - thankfully]

Anon,

You are so totally pissing me off... Seriously. you are presenting yourself as this damaged victim who has had his world turned upside down by passionate Clinton supporters who don't follow your vision of which candidate is best. Furthermore, you are totally looking into this blog with blinders on. The attacks from the Obama people against Clinton people have been rough 'n tumble. The attacks from the Clinton people against Obama people have been rough 'n tumble. MOST of us are trying to ratchet it down a bit, and then you come along demonizing Hillary supporters as being the most nasty people you've ever encountered. You skim over posts that have been extremely personal against Hillary supporters BY Obama supporters, because you have a kinship with them!

This is a normal thing I suppose. Sometimes I read some strident comments that a Clinton person has made and I react differently because we are on the same side. That's part of being H-U-M-A-N. If your goal is to build solidarity, you are choosing a very strange method to bring it about. Lately I've tried to also point out positives about Obama, even though I am 100% behind Hillary. Given the attacks against the Clinton candidacy and the fact that from the night of the IOWA CAU-CUS-ES the press was saying Obama would be the nominee. If I were an Obama supporter I would feel strange about that even if it helped my candidate. What does it say about our country, that ONE CONTEST out of 51(?) could be viewed as declaring one candidate as the nominee??? Does it surprise you that given the media bias that HAS been FOR Barack Obama, that Clinton supporters would not be resentful ??? And then the nasty comments come in and out of blogs here and there and friendships are challenged and everyone is up in arms because new divisions have arisen.

Frankly with all due respect, you sound like a little kid that has had his balloon popped and has been crying ever since. GET OVER IT !!! It is easy to get consumed by negativity or what you perceive as negativity on the internet! At some point I urge you to do what I did... move on already. If you don't like someone's comments, ok... that's THEM. Yesterday I was also so pissed at pro-Obama comments that *I* wanted to retract my declaration that I will support him if he is the nominee. But I kept a LID on it and realized FINALLY that even when things get heated, it doesn't make either candidate good or bad... Those qualities come from the candidates themselves.

So if you don't want to vote for Hillary IF she becomes the nominee (which is not so likely I think) well then DON'T.. But do you have to keep saying it over and over? SNAP OUT OF IT! sorry, but it's just this blog whining and I doubt you win many converts by your dramatic pronouncements.

You can be all pissed off at me for writing this... and I can remain all pissed off about what you've been writing, and it is because I am TEMPORARILY tired of the same of sh*t that I responded. It doesn't mean that I will hold resentments from things said in the PASSION of politics.

PLEASE TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SAYING !! We will ALL get along better if we can reach this level of understanding. And yes, I've been just as guilty, but after a while I learn to ZIP IT.

Cheers

Warren,

You will note that I didn't say being deserted wasn't a hard ship. He never really mentions that as being a problem other than some "identity" things and some "drugs" as a teenager. Certainly those things had an effect on his personality just as similar family situations effected Bill Clinton (they actually have alot in common).

What bothers me is the "single mother hardship food stamp" description. His grandparents could afford Hawaii. Punahou isn't cheap. He got loans for Harvard and managed a trip overseas while in college. I'm just pointing out that his providing bona fides for street credit akin to some poor kid growing up in a slum is hardly accurate, and the media swallows the whole act whole.

My, my you've all been busy today. I think I'm glad I had something else that called me away from the computer, and I don't have time to go back and read the posts. It's a beautiful day and I have a couple of hours to try and get the lawn tractor running and cut the grass - first time this year. But before I go...

AP, (back to your 9:04). As Wendy ably explained (thank you very much) no. I neither said nor believe that Gore did not respect the values of the folks in WV. I said Gore was a portrayed as a Washington liberal and he was portrayed and was perceived as not respecting their way of life. The portrayal and the perception were untrue and unfair - and were largely engineered by Karl Rove and the NRA, with dah,da,da, daaaaahhhh, Charlton Heston as the spokesman.

When I'm on the road I get the opportunity to listen to Sirius Left. The hosts on it are as split between Hillary and Obama as we are here. So don't get the idea that the blogosphere is unique in the entrenched postitons of the candidates' supporters.

Craig,

I am starting to hear some undercurrents that Hillary Clinton's personal attacks against Obama are to ensure that she be given the post of either Sec. Def or Sec State in a McCain White House. The rationale is to mirror what happened on the final season of the West Wing where the runner up was brought on board as a part of a unity cabinet.

The theory being forwarded is that there is no way McCain will serve 2 terms and taking a cabinet post will better position her to run against a week VP.

What is your opinion on this? Have you heard similar?

My sources are poker buddies that have TX RNC connections who are willing to place bets on that scenario.

Hi Pogo, I was basically saying the same thing... but you condensed it down very nicely.

Bear, LOL...

That sounds like a possible script for The Twilight Zone...

Then again, maybe politics lives in the realm of The Twilight Zone?

Here's your UNITY ticket:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Xb3bDwE9jQ

ET, that was a great rant. Well said!

ET, I find I get more and more succinct ( some might say I just get more terse) the older I get and the longer I listen to (well, read) what I say mischaracterized.

Well, have a good one, all. It's off to launch the first skirmish in the 2008 lawn wars.

Jamie:

"You will note that I didn't say being deserted wasn't a hard ship. He never really mentions that as being a problem other than some "identity" things and some "drugs" as a teenager."

He wrote an entire book about it....

Posted by: EuroTom 4:01

A truly thoughtful comment...

toast

Euro,

I was honestly shocked when I heard that theory from them. Just as shocked as I was when an account rep from a formerly closed sub prime lender visited my office and said they were back in business.

Both fall into "I'll believe it when I see it range" but when can't honestly dismiss it out of hand, you have to wonder.

Bear: Oy! LOL

Heather: I recognize what you are saying and I am well aware that politics leaves very little room for civility. What I was trying to say is that as Democrats we should reserve the venom for the Republicans ... not our own candidates and their supporters.

EUROTOM,

You are right about the Obama campaign. They are brilliant about participation.

I applied by the way.

Bear, something interesting. Have you ever expressed a candidate preference? I don't think I've ever saw anything from you or Dexter for that matter...

I agree it sounds strange but you are correct that you can't "dismiss it out of hand"... And afterall, "stranger things have happened".

as Democrats we should reserve the venom for the Republicans ... not our own candidates and their supporters.

Posted by: GAKaren | April 15, 2008 4:23 PM

AND...well said to YOU GAKaren

Sheila I hope you get in... This teacher whom I attended community college with wants to go too... His name is Stuart and he used to give me shit about being Gay. We were in the same sign language class. Anyway, I kept telling him he was Gay and couldn't come to terms with it. Years later he was at a Gay Pride parade and came up to me to "apologise" and said I was right all along. I said "apologise... why? I'm just glad that you are who you are and even when you'd say stuff to me, I never disliked you"...

sort of what I was trying to say today.

IMO, this scorched earth stuff within the party began with the Democrats that defected and voted Green Party for Nader. It continued in the 2004 primary with Howard Dean supporters. It isn't just about politics with a lot of these people. They act like sports' fans without looking at the bigger picture. They demonize, insult with little regard to the notion of party unity that is needed to support the party's nominee in the general election.

What has really pissed me off in this primary (I've said it several times on this blog) is how the Obama campaign chose to piss all over the previous Democratic administration in order to prop their own candidate up. While it makes perfect sense in the course of a primary, just how will Obama mount his general election campaign without the Republican's trotting out the oldie but goodie "flip-flop" meme with respect to the previous Democratic administration?

I can see the ads now that will state that Obama essentially agrees with McCain about the previous Democrat to inhabit the White House. No good can come of that.

While Hillary has run a shitty campaign overall Obama has pissed all over the Democratic Party in his zeal to win. IMO that is how once again, Democrats will lose when they really had their best shot at the White House in recent memory.

And as others have mentioned, our country will survive, but at what cost? If the people of this country did not take to the streets when there was a coup in 2000, they certainly won't mind when at least three more wackos are appointed to the Supreme Court.

EUROTOM,

One way or the other I will be on a Democratic campaign. Either the candidate of my choice or as a new recruit for the Democratic Nominee.

I will campaign and vote for the person who is going to ensure the Supreme Court will not go any further "Right of Right".

....hey GAKaren, I think we are unified on one point. ;0)

I must point out that I believe that Hillary also engaged in stuff that has been damaging to the party as well.

However, I see what Obama has done during the primary to be most problematic for the GE.

Sheila: Back at you! LOL

GAKaren AKA Clinton supporter and Chefsheilahussein AKA Obama Supporter are unified for the GE.

WE DON'T WANT NO MORE SCHTINKEN RIGHTIE SUPREMES ON THE COURT.

Gotta go. Mom's taxi service. Maybe I will see you guys later.

GAKaren:

The way to win this year's general election is by "pissing" all over the parties. People are sick of the partisan bickering - especially the swing voters in the middle.

McCain is the perfect GOP candidate - because he has pissed off the base as well as the hyper-partisan pundits such as Rush. (Although the base would have been happier with Romney - I don't think he would have had a shot in the general).

Despite all the hysterics right now - generally speaking - most registered Dems or Repubs will vote their party in the general. The real battleground is for the swing voters in the middle.

To get a taste of what Obama is in for in November should he get the nomination, go to --theobamafile.com

I am tired and late for bed.... Goodnight all... until next time..

ET...

Re: your 3:31 post...

A few weeks back, an article from The Rolling Stone was posted. The article described Obama's campaign strategy, including a full description of the 'intern' program you found online. I believe it is the reason he won so many caucus states. He, or more likely someone in his campaign, saw this 'weakness' in the system and capitalized on it. If you're pro-Obama, you say that it was a brilliant tactical move; if you're pro-Clinton, you likely see it as pure exploitation.

If I were Obama, I would NEVER have allowed that article to be written before the campaign ended..simply wouldn't have revealed the winning strategy. However, it's a very good read, and you might like to find it and read it.

"What has really pissed me off in this primary (I've said it several times on this blog) is how the Obama campaign chose to piss all over the previous Democratic administration in order to prop their own candidate up."

Spot on.

Obama Would "Immediately Review" Potential Of Crimes In Bush White House

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/15/obama-would-immediately-r_n_96690.html

Tonight I had an opportunity to ask Barack Obama a question that is on the minds of many Americans, yet rarely rises to the surface in the great ruckus of the 2008 presidential race -- and that is whether an Obama administration would seek to prosecute officials of a former Bush administration on the revelations that they greenlighted torture, or for other potential crimes that took place in the White House.

Obama said that as president he would indeed ask his new Attorney General and his deputies to "immediately review the information that's already there" and determine if an inquiry is warranted -- but he also tread carefully on the issue, in line with his reputation for seeking to bridge the partisan divide. He worried that such a probe could be spun as "a partisan witch hunt." However, he said that equation changes if there was willful criminality, because "nobody is above the law."

Read the full transcript of the exchange here.

Obama Outraises Clinton Among Small Town Pennsylvanians

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/15/obama-outraises-clinton-a_n_96806.html

Not talking about who's winning, because clearly, Clinton will win Pennsylvania....But this does look like it makes the dreaded "Bitter" remarks moot among Pensylvania small town voters. looks like they understand that he is trying to speak for them.

Hate the "DOMA"? Well here's something that gay couples who WERE able to get married have learned.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080415/ap_on_re_us/gay_divorce

New Barack Obama Add about unity.

Halfway down in left hand collum.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/

Just as a precaution, at the debate on Wednesday, the event corordinators have installed non-glare clear protective panels that will be situated between the two candidates. It is made of a high-tech molecular clear plastic developed specifically so not to be visible to the television viewer.

Cute Burrito and may be needed ;0)

Sam from Media, PA wrote:

I like guns and I'm religious. Nothing is more precious than our sense of community, which has been destroyed by corporate interests domination of trade policy, immigration policy, and healthcare policy. Typical bureaucratic Washington hasn't done much else for education either.

Yeah I'm a little bitter and I know a lot of people who are downright angry. I'd like to hear Obama say more about small town residents' anger and bitterness and give voice to how my neighbors and I feel.

I don't think he should run away from the comments but wear them as a badge of honor...and say how Hillary and McCain don't understand how angry people are and how we do need in change in Washington to help them.
Then he can talk about turning that bitterness to hope.

Dana from Mansfield, PA wrote:

I am a veteran, happen to be white, single mother of three school-aged children. I have a doctoral degree, but have just accepted a job paying $30,000 a year in Mansfield, PA (yes that's rural PA), because that is the very best that's available to me.

I am intelligent, well educated, hard-working. I am the treasurer of my local church, and I think hunting is a great recreation.

But, I am angry. I am angry because...it has become obvious that the majority of politicians don't care about my children, my voice, or me.

Thank you, Senator Obama for saying aloud what the rest of us has crying out from our hearts.

What notes and stories like these show is that Pennsylvanians are ready to move beyond a politics that's all about tearing each other down

Obama out-raising Clinton among PA voters may be more indicative of the fact that he's appealing to the wealthy democrats while she appeals to the more working class democrats who probably don't have any extra to send her campaign...feeds into the "he's out of touch with average Americans" narrative.

Craig,

I wonder how you feel about this;

http://stubbornfacts.us/domestic_policy/civil_liberties/molesting_the_first_amendment_maybe

I wonder if our Founding Fathers would support one of the two versions and this is something Democrats have ignored. My bet after suffering the MSM for years now, Hillary supporters would support one version and Obama supprters would support the other.

Again, which version of this new bill do YOU think does justice to meaning written in the Consitution in describing the protections of speech and Press granted "to the people".

Wendy mail....

And note the Bill's version above that enables even more power to our blighted Media.....LOL

Holy Crap says Jefferson to Franklin...

Holy crap indeed

Wendy,

That statement doesn't make much sense, since the majority of Obama's monitary support in March were from $199.00 and less in individual donations...including those Pennsylvania communities under 30,000.

An Inconvenient Truth on TMCw right now. It's informative , but not too exciting.

Heres a recipe for an Oxymoron.

Bush plans White House speech Wednesday on climate change

Bush to give speech Wednesday on how US can reduce greenhouse gas emissions

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2008/04/bush_plans_white_house_speech.php

Dear GAKaren

I totally agree with you! We should be focusing our hate, disgust, and venom for for the republicans, they are nothing short of vile disgusting scum. Many should be rotting in jail instead of trolling all over the countryside, Karl "Zig Heil" Rove should by hung by his balls on a barbed wire fence along with Bush and Cheney for crimes against humanity, dancing an Irish Jig on their graves!

Anybody thinking about the coming general election and the media should be watching McCain on Hardball. The music played as McCain walked out might as well has been Hail to the Chief, with John Philip Sousa marching along side him.

Matthews just said he didn't even like the term, "Pro Choice."

I think that the remark was, and is a reflection of Obama as a man, and I will not judge it as good or bad.

Obama was trying to make a point, he made it poorly.

I, personally, don't like it when people use words that are insulting or mean spirited, or that could be interpreted that way. I tend to shy away from people that speak like that.

What really gets me...it that this country isn't in an UPROAR over Iraq. If you watch cable channels some days you would not even know there is a war going on.

24/7 bitter.....I'll tell you who should be bitter...The families that have been devastated by the ruins of war....

A bit over the top, don't you think Heather? ;0)

Wouldn't it be better and more efficient to just throw them all to the Haag to stand trial for crimes against humanity?

Shelia, I didn't know you cling to your religion and guns because you're so bitter. While I know you think Obama will really help your situation way more than Hillary, I think Hillary has a much better association to a proven record of finacial growth and prosperity. I would have loved Obama to have apologized to the Clintons for casting them next to Nixon and trashing their years in office. I'm sure the sub-prime lending is somehow related to that evil Nafta that Obama says he won't dump. I'm glad Obama plans to cut defense spending so even more than 67% of present foreign students can attend our graduate schools with help from Uncle Sam. I am happy Obama plans to offer plans the poor can pay for so they might get Healthcare. And I am very impressed by the huge sums Soros and Oprah have given Obama and even the help Auchi gave for Obama's home. In fact, I was delighted Wright just got a lovely mansion with a six million dollar line of credit. Yes, Obama feels your pain, he's a real average joe that can relate to you folks and those low snobs the Clintons just live in their ivory towers hanging out with all sorts of American-bashing people.

Go ahead and spin it Shelia. In fact, many critics of Obama's first mento,r Frank Davis called his poetry rather "bitter". So even at the age of 10 -17, Obama was sure to have learned all about "bitter" and its solutions.

Heather: spoken like a good Catholic. You are a credit to Catholics everywhere.

Sincerely,
dog, former parochial school student

MAX......LOLOLOL Spin away Babe! I just never thought anyone would think my little roll to be spinable....must be doing something right. ;0) Thanks!

Hi Dog! Long time no see!

Chef Sheila Hussein The Nun:
Sure sending them to the Haag to stand trial is more efficient but would it be as pleasurable and fun?

Just kidding
What I posted was not meant to be taken seriously, just venting frustration!

Heather, I must say,

If I thought you were really serious, I'd be afraid, very very afraid. ;0) The depth of those words are enough to give a person chills.

Posted by: dog hussein dog:

You need not speak in code or abstract terms, people that do tend to be cowards speak from the hear in black and white if you have a problem with me speak out crystal clear all this abstract sarcasm is childish!

Posted by: dog hussein dog:

You need not speak in code or abstract terms, people that do tend to be cowards speak from the heart
in black and white if you have a problem with me speak out crystal clear all this abstract sarcasm is childish!

Sheila:

$200 is a lot for some working class folks living paycheck to paycheck and with the economy the way it is there may not be much left over.

Regarding the Pope's visit to the U.S.

"I have as much authority as the Pope , I just don't have as many people who believe it." - George Carlin

"I think that the remark was, and is a reflection of Obama as a man"

Burrito...I'm taking that comment in combination with all the other comments he's made and said were misstatements...how many misstatements with the same sentiment are actually misstatements and not actually how a person really feels. Taking everything together. If isolated I would not think much of it. Taken together with all the other things...gives one pause.

Wendy! and others: $109 average means that many contributions come in ten dollars or so at a time.

Please do not be facetious here. Obama has already passed the million individual donors mark.

Does anyone know how many individual donors Hillary has reported, and what her average contribution is? I would further be interested in the average contribution before and after New Hampshire, or whenever it became common knowledge that her fundraising was in serious trouble. ($5 million loan to self, etc.)

Many thanks!

dog (too lazy to look that one up, because have great respect for research skills of my fellow C Listers)

Now This Would Be Rich With Irony....

MSNBC hosts psyched at 'Chris Matthews for Senate' possibility

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Chris_Matthews_wants_to_be_Senator_0415.html

Wendy,

I agree with you. If I had to guess about what causes someone to speak like that, I would most likely come up with terms that are not so favorable to the man. He is, as we all are, a product of our entire life experiences and choices.

I think at this point, if BHO was able to bring people together, if he truly had that " gift ", we would all be together on the same page moving forward.

That has not happen.....obviously.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/04/will-clintons-bitter-ad-turn-s.html#comment-68126

Written like a true "cradle to grave" Catholic...yikes!!!

But Burrito,

he has a majority right now. That has to say something to you.....

He respects your choices as well as the rest of us do too.

To say Obama can't bring people together over all the caos and divisiveness of this campaign is because you gave up a long time ago. You and the rest.

If I can over look all of the hatred and meaness on this blog to vote for Hilary, you can too.

The difference is that I KNOW she isn't behind most of this crapfest, even if she HAS condoned it. Just like he hasn't either. Its politics.

Here's some political salve. I put in on every night.

Matthews for the senate? Give me a break. He is a major douche bag!

ummmmm Linda anytime you want to discus Catholicism and apologetics feel free since you are an expert on the subject

burrito: " I think at this point, if BHO was able to bring people together, if he truly had that " gift ", we would all be together on the same page moving forward."

Dear Burrito:

I did not have that much luck in that department during my lifetime on earth either. Peace.

Sincerely,

the messiah aka the WWJD dude

I was trying to post this earlier. West Michigan is very conservative. People here are anti-abortion , anti-gay marriage and anything else that is considered to be a liberal point of view. Many people here support President Bush. I don't hold the views that these people do , but I don't believe that any candidate's personal stance on any issues such as the ones above can be considered to be reflective of every town in America. The Republicans have long had a strong hold on West Michigan. I will be interested to see if this still holds for this election. Will the conservative base here support McCain? I mean , if people were truly tired of Bush and his policies , how did McCain get the party nomination? What did he do right?

Heather:

You are a very ugly and disturbed individual. Please step away from the computer and go do something useful in your own life.

You have been out of control this afternoon and will probably regret the ugliness you have displayed to us all later.

Sincerely,
dog

Wo Heather,,,,,to far. back up a bit.

WWJD was started in Holland , Mi.

Where is KGC???

is this a place for political discussion ?

been meaning to pass of this Ring Of Fire piece.

I'm sure some of you have heard of the Pap-Attack.

Well Mike Papantonio of GoLeft TV and Air America's Ring of Fire talks about how the Republicans, led by the Bush administration, are using fear to keep Americans subordinate

Follow down the latest videos to "Age of Fear. Great commentary.

http://www.ringoffireradio.com/media_source_PA.asp?srcid=10

Good point, mqw.

dog hussein dog- I am not religious, I use the term "gift" when people have certain abilities above and beyond the average person. When they are better at something, whatever it may be, then most.

dog to Heather -- "You are a very ugly and disturbed individual. Please step away from the computer and go do something useful in your own life."

Complete bullshit, dog. Especially for someone who professes to take the high road.

"ummmmm Linda anytime you want to discus Catholicism and apologetics feel free since you are an expert on the subject"
--Heather

relax...

Chef Sheila Hussein The Nun,

I did not give up, I do not understand what you mean by that. I voted, and now I wait to see who will be running for President and Vice-president in November. I am an independent.

Many things can happen between now and the GE. So I, like many others Independents who have already voted, have to see what the final two tickets are when it is time to vote again.

In the meantime, it's politics as usual.

Burrito said,

I think at this point, if BHO was able to bring people together, if he truly had that " gift ", we would all be together on the same page moving forward.

That has not happen.....obviously

I was just reacting to your last paragraph. I consider myself an Indie too. But I am definitely in the pan for the DEM sizzle. I don't care if the Dem candidate has warts and all. ;0) I'll be campaigning too. No matter who.

I was just passing the political salve for you too. it will help in your voting process if you candidate isn't the Nominee.....

to all who would take that wrong, I am offering Burrito more a solidarity, so don't comment unless you can be a "Unifier and not a Divider."

9/11....thanks..... EdvB started it.....if he'd used don marquis I'd have had to settle for old e.e.

Hey! While I was captive in my car today,

Bill Press was on Stephanie Miller. THIS was a particularly unifying (for the most part) talk. It was GREAT!

http://www.stephaniemiller.com/blog.php?PageId=81&PageSubId=

You will see the audio for the 15 of April marked Bill Press. Please listen.

the cubanos have preserved Ernest Hemingway's Havana Hotel room and his Finca Vigia almost precisely as he left them when last he was there.......

9/11........but did you mean that because I type like a cockroach diving headfirst onto the keyboard? no but seriously, these new keyboards are much much easier on a liddle cockroach's exo-cranium........

Maybe I can post some things that everyone here can agree with. I would also like to know on the record what Craig thinks.

Is it time for some people to get the boot for a history of blathering personal opinions?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CHINA_CNN?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=HOME

Is it sickening or just me that Mathews thinks he should run for the Senate?

Do people here favor the Senate Bill on Press protection which would exclude many of us on the interenet, or the absurd and unConstitutional House Bill? Any who think both versions suck?

Chef Sheila Hussein The Nun,

o.k. - I get your post. Thanks.

: )

Dear Corey:
That was a joke I put that Just to drive a certain batty I seriously would not do that

sturge,

That's just what I meant.

You're a treasure's treasure.

Is someone here boiling a pet rabbit ?

This is as true today as when I wrote it on Feb. 10...

An open letter to all of us following this historical and spirited race for the Democratic nomination, with a type of excitement and passion that has not been seen in recent years:

First off, each one of us here believes in our heart that our candidate provides the best chance for the future of this country.

We are all aware of the critical challenges this country faces and understand how much THIS election matters.

I certainly admit that I have let my heart and my passion for the candidate I support cloud my judgment and cause me to say stupid things about the other great Americans running for president - who, along with supporters all over - are working their asses for for what they believe is in the best intersts of this country.

I support Barack Obama for President of the United States because I think he is the best President for these times.

I have serious questions about Hillary Clinton's ability to get things done in the White House. Let me be clear - I like and respect Hillary Clinton and believe progress would be stifled not because of a lack of effort or ability on her part, but rather because of short-sighted obstacles placed in her way by Rove's henchmen and the Americans are still caught up in the partisan battles that reached a boiling point in the nineties (and which have gridlocked Washington ever since).

I also think Hillary is polarizing. Clinton supporters ardently disagree and about 50% of the country agrees - that sounds pretty divisive to me. You can blame it on the right-wing attack machine, or the media, or now even the Obama supporters. But it is REAL. Whether her high negatives are fairly-earned or unfairly-fabricated can be debated - but that debate does not change the fact that they exist.

There are also serious questions about Clinton's electability in THESE times and in THIS race. I base this on the points discussed above and what we have seen in this campaign. Obama has handled himself with grace and determination, won support all over the country and is building a new generation that actually cares about politics.

The Democratic base is already energized. I discount the notion that the fights between Clinton and Obama supporters will cause people to stay home. Those supporters are just becoming more and more invested in this process and they will unite to stand against the GOP. Clinton's ardent supporters will not simply walk away - they will bring the fight to the Republicans.

A few other points:

-Obama will attract anti-war Independents and Republicans, whose numbers are significant.

-Obama will be able to draw a sharp contrast with John McCain so that the Republican attack machine cannot blur the lines.

-Obama is the strongest to debate McCain on Iraq. Most observers agree that this has been Obama's greatest strength in the debates with Clinton.

Clinton supporters: Do you really want to go over to the other side and start paroting back the conventional wisdom that the youth vote can't make a difference? The youth does not make a difference when it is disaffected - it needs to be INSPIRED. (And from what I've seen . . . it is not only young Americans that Obama is inspiring).

But Obama IS calling a whole NEW generation to arms. This will not only impact this election - it will CHANGE the future. Both in terms of new voters and public service. I believe that the energy shown by the Clinton and Obama supporters alike (as well as those for all the candidates) - can be parlayed effectively after the general election. Not everyone of course - but even a percentage of that energy could do the world a lot of good.

How can Obama make a REAL CHANGE to the way politics is conducted in Washington - you ask?

Because the new American Majority that votes for him in this election - including Democrats, Independents and Republicans and first-time voters - will all make sure that politicians who get in the way of OUR mandate will be cast aside - no matter who they are.

And that mandate is quite simple:

-END the Bush Doctrine and EVOLVE American foreign policy

-Make HEALTH CARE more affordable and accessible
IMMEDIATELY and get us on the road towards UNIVERSAL health care

-Stop the trickle down ECONMICS and open the
floodgates through TAXES and EDUCATION

-Pass a comprehensive IMMIGRATION bill and ensure that our boarders are SAFE

-LEAD the world on fighting terrorism, speading human rights and protecting our environment

President Obama will implement that mandate with familiar names such as the Clintons, Biden, Richardson and Edwards - along with the growing cadre of new leaders like Webb, Casey and McCaskill. I am also confident that Obama will enlist the support of the best and the brightest leaders from the GOP.

Vote Obama and the join the New American Majority. And don't worry, the Clintons will join us and BOTH will play key roles in guiding this country's FUTURE.

(I only added a few new things at the end ; )

(I figured since Heather has taken to posting op-eds now and then - the Obamawan learners ought to return the favor ; )

As Cardinal Ratzinger, the current Pope told John Paul II, in the early days (mid-1980s), that the emerging priest sex-abuse scandal in the USA was the result of our sex-obsessed culture and that the kids were making it up. He kept the Vatican from recognizing the problem until it finally exploded.

Even today he thinks that the problem is confined to the USA although it's global.

The USA just has a better system of allowing victims to seek legal redress. In most predominantly Catholic nations, the govt still covers it up.

(If you want to know where I got all this, I read the NY Times every day and have since the 1970s.)

You could look it up.

Can We Fill the Holes in Barack’s Story?

"It just does not make sense. Why does Barack move to Chicago after law school? He has hidden this part of his past and frankly, if you are hiding something there is usually a reason and the reason ain’t good. You have a reason to move to a particular city or state.

So I return to the question. Why does Barack wind up in Chicago? Here’s a guy who is at the top of the heap at Harvard’s Law School as the head of the Law Review, who could reasonably be expected to earn huge dollars in New York, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, or Boston and he spurns all of these to go to work in Chicago? Why?

There is no family tie that we know of. How about a college roommate? His two books do not explain this. Why my interest? I find it odd that this guy goes to Chicago and becomes part of a circle of folks who are known for politics best described as radical left. Any thoughts?"

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/04/15/can-we-fill-the-holes-in-baracks-story/

(These questions are from Larry Johnson of noquarter. I'm guessing he knows, but is reluctant to go public - this is what most of you would refer to as "tin foil" info. I'll wait for Johnson to spell it out, you would be more likely to believe him. Obama has some very dangerous backers - Hillary needs to do whatever is necessary to stop him. McCain can help.)

Redirecting focus

I have wondered who the msm would favor if the nominees are McCain & Obama--after reading this wash post article by Dana Milbank about their appearances at the newspaper editors' luncheon--it seems that the straight talk express continues to be just that (at least to this group).

McCain gets a box of donuts & a standing o & the "likely democratic nominee was likened to a terrorist" (Milbank's words).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/14/AR2008041402633.html

What is it about John McCain that continues to beguile the media?

far as I'm concerned.......the inquisition wasnt all that long ago......and perhaps the catholic church has been muzzled somewhat instead of having evolved......I dont trust those guys no further than you can throw them......

Well done Warren....a littl long maybe, but well said!

I went to Catholic school for 13 years.

(That is part of how I became Taoist ; )

Heather , I was kidding too. I am trying to throw some support your way.

"He wrote an entire book about it...."

Warren, I'm well aware of that. Are you purposely missing what I am saying or am I not being clear. Many many people have had dysfunctional families. That isn't my problem.

What I find troubling is that he puts out the description of his childhood as being "raised by a single mother on food stamps" ... HE WASN"T. IT IS A LIE. For the most part he had a life of physical and monetary comfort.

Is that clear enough. He tells the story and media goes all googlie eyed and worshipful without ever correcting the story. This while tearing apart every story of Sen. Clinton detail by detail without even the benefit of a doubt. It is the unequal coverage that bothers me.

Well Dana Milbank is a very fair minded journalist.

YOu have your good days and your bad days. While i listened to the audio of this meeting and Obama was self deprecating and kind about being mislabeled. AND it was funny and met with laughter.

But if the rest of off, it was off. It happens. A long way from the GE still.

I predict that McCain will not get the presidency anyway.

I can see old 12 yr old Jeebus walking into St Peters and just wreaking holy havoc on the furniture and relics and artifacts..........

Warren....God help us. After reading your last big post I realize that my Jim Jones comparisons were not hyperbole. Not saying Obama is Jim Jones, but that his followers are cut from the same cloth. YES WE CAN! SEIG HEIL!

I'm sorry, but that's exactly how I feel about this psuedo religion Obama has cultivated. You people -- and your potential -- scare me. The train is off the tracks.

Anyone watching KO? Michelle Obama looked totally pissed...her body language was that of a person looking for a fight...her hair looked messed up. She must have been channeling the wife in Bill Cosby's "cake for breakfast" routine!!!

Also, she ended a sentence with a preposition..and she knew it...and didn't know how to end the sentence...

LMAO!!

Just like his great great great great great great great great great great great granpappy done it............that was great.

cool........nillson song on idol show

Linda.....what was she pissed at?

"You people -- and your potential -- scare me."

Thanks Patsi!!

(that is a real compliment coming from a woman that does not seem to scare easy....)

I also attended "Catholic" schools for 13 years...as I always say, "I have the ruler scars to prove it"..LOLOLOLOL!!!!

Why did Obama wind up in Chicago?

Max, where are you--think you provided the answer in your comments. Wasn't Frank Marshall Davis, a Chicago labor activist (among other things) one of those who strongly influenced Obama in his formative years in Hawaii (the fatherlike figure to Obama).

It is a modified form of "Color Revolution".

(color does not refer to skin)

"What I find troubling is that he puts out the description of his childhood as being "raised by a single mother on food stamps""

It is a heck of a lot more accurate than the "sniper fire" and the war zone with the little girl and the poem, high school students, Chelsea and of course - my favorite - Sinbad!!!

(I would much rather deal with the elite GOP calling Obama (the populist grass roots candidate) an "elitist" than have to deal with that video and everything else the Republicans would roll out against the Clinton. It would get ugly and bloodly - and further tear this country apart along partisan lines.)

Warren,

Re: Bar scene
Some would just be bitter, others would be dead and a few would end up bitter and dead.

4 yrs episcopal for me.......I got a lighter sentence.

UB:

And some of us would just get drunk!

sturgeone

I just caught the end of it, but she was speaking to a group about her husband and that they are not elitists. IMO, she looked all ticked off.

I am going to DVR the show at 10, so I can watch the entire clip tomorrow.

yep exactly !

"I have the ruler scars to prove it"

The only nun they still let do that was the kindergarten teacher.

And she only used this tactic to ensure we knew our parts for the Christmas show. It was a big deal.

"What I find troubling is that he puts out the description of his childhood as being "raised by a single mother on food stamps""

It is a heck of a lot more accurate than the "sniper fire" and the war zone with the little girl and the poem, high school students, Chelsea and of course - my favorite - Sinbad!!
---Warren

warren......did you rebel against the catholics teaching you that comparisons are odious?

Linda & Sturgeone @8:25

Not sure, did not watch KO, but this may be the video clip you saw, The Page has a short clip of Michelle Obama talking about being out of touch.

http://thepage.time.com/2008/04/15/michelle-obama-maybe-im-out-of-touch-said-with-sarcasm/

"What I find troubling is that he puts out the description of his childhood as being "raised by a single mother on food stamps""
It is a heck of a lot more accurate than the "sniper fire"

Warren -- as a former single mother who at one point had the electricity turned off, yet never got food stamps, Obama's story seems phony to me. I don't have anything against food stamps...just had no idea how to apply for them.

Buthere's a guy who whines about his single mom and food stamps..yet she married again, he lived in several countries and went to private schools...uh....what's wrong with this picture?

Not sure what you're talking about sturg

(But I tend to rebel against any authority I don't respect. I did not rebel against the catholics - I simply declined their invitation...)

Whoever wins the Presidency is being left with problems on every single front possible.

I really can not think of one area or one topic , where the U.S.A. is succeeding in a positive manner.

Can anyone? I am being serious, and I just realized just how sad this is.

No, Coreen, that is not the clip that was on KO...but thanks for finding that one!! 8~)

Patsi:

Congratulations. You win the prize for the toughest life. (Now give the kid a break.)

And it sounds like his mom married someone with a little cash - what's wrong with that!

(But I can tell you from being a step-kid - I am not sure how entitled little Barry felt....)

Burrito,

My dear, I have said this in the we hours of the morning and to my friends.

We are now entering crisis mode.. We should have been there two years ago.

The next president will have to gather the brightest minds from both parties and convince all of us to tighten our belts. Its going to be a tough ride.

Right now as we speak and pay too much attention to this campaign, the International Red Cross and all of the world organizations are trying to alert the other big countries that world wide famine is just about to reach a level never before seen by the world. The effects Global Warming and bio-fuel is hitting food supplies earlier than expected.

"I really can not think of one area or one topic , where the U.S.A. is succeeding in a positive manner."

Our entertainment industry is second to none.

Hollywood is what keeps us popular in the world (while W is busy trashing our reputation with every one but....um....maybe....ok I give up).

This is the text of what MLRO said, in the clip, on KO...(4th paragraph)

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Michelle_addresses_elitism_and_all_of_that.html

I guess the "out of touch" and " so you aren't confused" comments were in the same speech.

ROTFLMAO @ "Yeah, I went to Princeton and Harvard..."

What??? LOLOLOLOL

I wonder why Barack's mother chose not to raise him?

burrito: that's an excellent question. Had misplaced my copy of "Dreams" but will read it this week and try to answer that one, as I can.

Burrito,

His mother sent him to her parents who lived in Hawaii because he was showing intelligence far ahead of his age group. The best school for him that would not have reacted to his interacial roots was in Hawaii. She did it for him.

Some of the comments, following the Ben Smith article, are laugh-out-loud hilarious!! 8~D

I dont think that presidential mothers are within the realm of what needs consideration........I mean we're talking a lot of mothers of many different little guys who made the top totem........FDR's mudda.........Thom Jeff's mudda......Jimmie Carter's mudda....I mean, Ms Lillian......W's mudda.........(Chelsea's mudda........) Abe's, George's, Teddy's, Jackson's,

You can pick you pastor, but you cant pick your mother.

they probably all did the best they could with what they had to offer........the mothers, that is.........

Finally had a chance to read through some of Heather's earlier posts.

Absolutely hysterical!!

(in a good way ; )

You Obama-maniacs need to toughen up for the general. The GOP will have even longer knives and will play dirty.

(Plus - SOME of those jack-asses in the GOP actually ARE bigots!!)

Harbor......just came across this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbPovgCP5BU&feature=related

Chef Sheila Hussein The Nun,
Thanks,
I still wonder why she didn't go with him and give the same opportunity to her daughter ? I imagine even Hawaii's publics schools were fairly decent compared to where ever mom Obama was living.

Thanks Coreen

I thought they were funny.

(Plus - you can give a Clintonite a pass on this one - they think "words don't matter" ; )

"Congratulations. You win the prize for the toughest life. (Now give the kid a break.)
And it sounds like his mom married someone with a little cash - what's wrong with that!"

What's wrong is that he's selling a lie.

And Sheila -- when you say "she did it for him -- I am just stunned. Give up your child? Give up your child? I don't care how poor I got, I would NOT have given up my child. And she wasn't poor -- married a second time and going for a PhD.

Something is very wrong with this story.

And yes, I consider myself a Christian and like Heather when I stand before the Lord I will accept whatever His judgment of me is..

The question is will Heather?

Hate the posts - love the poster.

(plus - if someone is pushed to the breaking point - I don't judge them based solely on their explosion.)

Anon and Dog,

Voices of reason.

Rube not lest ye be rubed.

I feel bad for BHO. His dad left them and it seems his mom was not really interested in being a mom to him. She was a free spirit interested in her own adventures.

BHO's childhood must have been very sad/confusing for him. 8(

Anon P: you are well liked here by many. More than you might know.

And Patsi it's no different then abortion. Women make that difficult decision every day. It doesn't mean they all don't want their babies either.

Sometimes they do what they feel is best for their children and often its heartbreaking for them.

Of course there are some who don't gave a damn, but I would guess there far and few between.

In the article Coreen posted : it said Obama was the one to chose to stay in Hawaii. She left him there.

"And when Obama asked to stay in Hawaii for high school rather than return to Asia, she accepted living apart - a decision her daughter says was one of the hardest in her life."

even rich kids have sad confusing childhoods......probably almost everybody had sad confusing childhoods........it's how you got where you are today........

Good info to know:

http://travel.yahoo.com/p-interests-22776375;_ylc=X3oDMTIybXN2aWVsBF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEX3MDMjcxOTQ4MQRzZWMDZnAtdG9kYXltb2QEc2xrA3N0cm9uZ2RvbGxhciAtMjAwOC0wNC0xNQ--

Anybody want to go in on a restaurant/bar/hotel/yoga studio/surf school in Costa Rica if McCain gets elected?

(we can add some more slashes ; )

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/PF_New%5C502006/PF_2059420~The-Catcher-in-the-Rye-by-J-D-Salinger-Posters.jpg

"if someone is pushed to the breaking point "
--warren

I don't understand how a person can be pushed to the breaking point, on a blog...

I always LMAO when people type long, angry posts!! I picture them sitting at their computer....pounding the keyboard, foaming at the mouth, ranting, raving....and quite possibly the person, for whom the post is intended, has logged off, for the day...LOLOLOL!!!

the web defies description........simply mind-a'bogglin'

I just found my portrait on google.

http://www.vggallery.com/painting/p_0212.htm

Sturg!

Thank you for the Monty Python traffic light video! Have you shared that with Collin...or his dad? I wonder what they'd think of it. :-))

"Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton outlined an aggressive 100-day presidential agenda on Tuesday."

I thought HRC did not engage in hypotheticals.

(Especially one as unlikely as this...sorry low blow. Anyways, don't worry Clintonites - Obama will just steal the plan, put it into action and we will all benefit from it. Btw, that is what politics is all about. Good ideas are the property of the American people.)

I sent it to Andy straightaway..........I laughed like a goober seeing his grammer step in the dogpoo.........

"pounding the keyboard, foaming at the mouth, ranting, raving....and quite possibly the person, for whom the post is intended, has logged off, for the day...LOLOLOL!!!"

Linda; that is so absolutely perfect! And very true.

I agree sturgeone.

I guess my point about BHO is that it must have hurt him terribly to know that his mom left him and even took his sister away. 8(

When I was little, twice a year, my Mom and Grandmother would go away for a week, by themselves...just to "get away". Even though, we were at home, with our Dad and Grandfather, my siblings and I would be counting the hours until she came home...we all just missed her so much...it hurt. 8(

Burrito

His half sister was born in Hawaii after his mother returned there before she left again for Indonesia. The sister was sent back to attend and graduate from Punahou School as well.

Warren is still rather willfully missing the whole point. The press has examined every story Sen. Clinton tells. They have done it repeatedly, over and over, under a microscope squeezing out every single detail ad nauseum placing the most negative connotation possible even when there are relatively benign discrepancies. Still they make sure everyone knows the exact facts every 15 minutes with "breaking news" alerts and sarcastic adjectives.

Sen. Obama tells what is a completely falsehood that he retells as part of his stump speech and the media curls up and takes a "that's nice" snooze.

It isn't the story. It is the fact of the one sided coverage.
Have you caught up now?

Jamie,

Are you asking me that question? " If I have caught up?" Geez, I know what you are saying. I was just interested in the story, since I have heard so many different statements.

I know there is one-sided coverage. I know the un-fairness.

Patsi: are you serious?

IMHO, I also think some people enjoy the attention that having a good(cyber)knockdown, drag-out fight brings to them.

I mean, don't get me wrong...some of the one-liner jabs that a couple people trade back and forth are hysterical!!

Sometimes, however, the remarks cross the "ugly line" and become hateful!! Those posters are the ones I think are in desperate need of attention, that they will never, ever be able to get, on a blog.

I'm just sayin'...

warren...

I am one of three children who with our mother lived with our grandparents. My father was a Master Sargent in the Army and served in WWII and came back a changed man.

He turned to drinking and left us when I was around 6 or 7 years old. My sister who was the youngest as I posted here died two days after Christmas this past year and only my older brother and I are still left.

After my dad left my family which was struggling to keep food on the table and the bills paid we became a family who needed help.

What happened was my mother applied for help and here is what she received. The State took my brother and me away from her and our grandparents and stuck us in State Homes.

I don't know what occurred in regards to where my brother was sent, however I was bounced around through three or four homes where I was both physically and sexually abused.

I still think that I turned out to be a good person even though I had a shity childhood and should have been or could have turned out being a criminal and end up in prison or dying by following the wrong path.

I'm sure that my mother would have given anything to keep me at home, but in my case as in my brothers she had no choice.

Some mothers would rather give their children up or place them with another family member to see that they had more opportunity for a better life than themselves. Some don't care one way or the other what happens to the children.

In Obama's case it appears his mother cared very deeply about him and did what she felt was best for him. Not her as some here seem to suggest.

So far they have gone from labeling Obama a Muslim, a cult leader, a Marxist, slamming his wife to now degrading his mother. This is just how the Republicans treat most Democrats or those who views don't agree with theres.

To accept these is no different than accepting Republican Talking Points on how to destroy your enemy, which is what many here think Obama is.

I haven't really got into the gutter in regards to other commenter's here though its been very tempting to. There is only one person whom I disliked strongly and could also come close to hating and that was SnowFlake Blue Fritz whom I considered a Nazi by any standards for the comments he always left.

If you really want to piss someone off just disrespect their mother and you most assuredly will and that is what's coming now from the Clinton camp.

I'm done for tonight. I hope everyone else has a good evening.

is it safe to come out and play.now? are the serial killers gone. lol

Here's the problem I have with the latest characterization of Obama's childhood: He and his surrogates are implying that he was impoverished. This is offensive to people who actually did grow up poor. No one is saying that he didn't have issues with divorce and re-marriage etc. (I myself have experienced a fair share of those kinds of struggles) but I know people who grew up eating mayonaise sandwiches. And I have read memoirs from people who had less than that (ever read "The Glass Castle?" or see the Shania Twain Behind the Music? Ha!)

Rez.......I got a bit left yet.....the stupid cat is out and I dont have a stupid cat door. Plus, there's still some beer left............

...Ally, I am not disputing your statement, but I have never seen anything where Obama or any of his surrogates said he grew up impoverished.

I can't find anything either. I link would help.

didja ever have fried spam for supper?

didja ever have fried spam for supper?

Posted by: sturgeone | April 15, 2008 10:07 PM

Until I just couldn't look at it anymore. ....I haven't touched it since I was about 16. ;0)

Sheila: I am referring to the recent statements in response to the elitist charges that Obama was raised by a single mother who had to go on food stamps.

Strug: My dad always tried to feed me fried Spam for dinner. He became addicted to it while in the Army. UGH.

Sturg...

Your portrait is absolutely lovely! ;-))

If Andy tells you how Collin reacts to that video, I want to hear, please....

My son has his first really good job, and is doing very well so far!

and then sitting at the children's table that plate slapped in front of you with a pile of what they now call "home fries" and one fried 1/8 inch slice of baloney.
and on the only channel we could get...........Ed Sullivan........Sunday, fahcryin'outloud.......
lolol

what is actually in spam?

Um, my husband still eats fried bologna sandwiches. Regularly. And he is actually a food snob. You can take the boy out of Kansas...

(and it stinks up the whole house by the way.)

spam facts...

http://www.cusd.claremont.edu/~mrosenbl/spamfacts.html

Ally,

In my opinion, food stamps however used temperarily are still food stamps and they are humiliating. She used them before she married the second time. I'm not sure how brief it was. Maybe it was for his infancy. maybe an early wick program, but if she used them, I'm sure it was for her young son and before being married to this second husband.

I have used food stamps and a food bank and its embarrassing and humiliating but necesary some times. . I'm glad Obama told he tale.

just sayin.

Again, not disputing your statement, just putting my two cents in.

Apparently no love lost between Bernstein and the Clintons.

Carl Bernstein’s View: A Hillary Clinton presidency

What will a Hillary Clinton presidency look like?

"The answer by now seems obvious: It will look like her presidential campaign, which in turn looks increasingly like the first Clinton presidency.

Which is to say, high-minded ideals, lowered execution, half truths, outright lies (and imaginary flights), take-no prisoners politics, some very good policy ideas, a presidential spouse given to wallowing in anger and self-pity, and a succession of aides and surrogates pushed under the bus when things don’t go right. Which is to say, often.

And endless psychodrama: the essential Clintonian experience that mesmerizes the press, confuses the citizenry, confounds members of both parties in Congress (not to mention the Clintons themselves, at times) and pretty much keeps the rest of the world constantly amused and fixated."

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/12/carl-bernstein-what-a-hillary-clinton-presidency-look-like/

So I didn't leave yet. What evidence does anyone have that his grandparents were well to do or any different than my family was when I was young?

What evidence does anyone have that says they didn't struggle to put food on the table or clothes on the children?

Maybe he earned what he has by hard work and determination to overcome the difficulties before him.

You people are too much.

"Senator Robert Byrd of West Viginia eats a sandwich of SPAM and mayonnaise on white bread three times a week."
--spam facts

see...there ya go!!

Thanks for the spam link, I had no idea that it was so pure.

anon-p...

Glad you haven't left for the night yet...wanted to add that I value and enjoy your posts! What's this baloney about not being loved here? (Or was that spam?)

BHO's Grandparents

Madelyn and Stanley then moved to Hawaii where he found a better furniture store opportunity. Madelyn started working at the Bank of Hawaii in 1960 and was promoted to be one of the first bank female vice presidents in 1970.[3] This was no easy task in 1970's Honolulu, where both women and the minority white population were routinely the target of discrimination.
--wikipedia

spam is pressed together refuse from whatever meat they can find from anything unsuitable for anything from hotdogs on up........there were times when spam was what ya got........now.....SIRLOIN! ha ha ha ha

I guess I'll check with Nora Ephron about Bernstein's judgement.........he seems like such a level headed chap..........

Hi harborwoman...

Thank you and no it wasn't spam though I also ate a lot of fried spam and bologna.

I forgot a few words but here is what I remember.

My ??? has a first name its Oscar, my ??? has a second name its Meyer and I love to eat it everyday and that is why you'll here me say Oscar Meyer has a way with BOLOGNA.

I ate Bologna for lunch every day for such a long time. Two sandwiches of white bread, ketchup with two slices of bologna. By lunch time they were always soft from the ketchup.

Tasted damn good though.

Least I forget ketchup sandwiches with bread or crackers. Ate a lot of these in bad times.

Julie: you astonish me.

well, I must admit that being on the SC coast we supplemented our diet with "free" crabs, shrimp, fish and clams..........

I really like all of "you people" (and I seriously doubt any of you are serial killers ; )

Coreen, yes, I think there is that Davis-Chicago connection. I doubt even NYU or Columbia would seat Ayers....LOL

There is also the largest Palestinian population. I was born in Chicago, but left for NY as a young child. Even so, the years 1-6 left me with a good understanding of domestic policy and the pitfalls of political corruption.

btw, McCain said he would be willing to work out an agreement with the Dem to try and eliminate the influence of 527's. That way the debate can be respectful and focus on the issues.

(I bet even HRC would agree to that since her campaign is a 527 all-to-itself.)

anon-p...Want to make sure you knew the spam comment was me teasing you. I really do enjoy and value your posts.

I used to eat onion sandwiches...white bread, catsup, mustard, sliced onion...yum! And if you had a cold, it was quite palliative! Loved bologna sandwiches, too, but don't think I ever ate a Spam sandwich...thank God! It just looks awful. Peanut butter and banana sandwiches are delicious!

Would have loved some of those "free" crabs, shrimp, fish and clams, sturg! Yummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

(I did leave myself some wiggle room...)

Warren

I have somethng to say to you,

watch out for Hillary's stare in tomorrow night's debate.
Her eye will be on you , just especially you..
Better wear your armor, of course with a beer in your hand.. .......... :)) .....:))

Julie

I used to eat mayonaise sandwiches...but just cause I liked them.

(I learned it one day when I was eating a sandwich and all the lunch meat came out in one of my bites. All that was left was bread and mayo - and it tasted even better than it had before : )

I am ready for her!!

(and thanks for reminding me - I should get some nice whiskey for tomorrow - this could be the last Democratic debate of this historic race ; )

Warren-------------------------

"...her campaign is a 527 all-to-itself.)"

Do you really believe that?

Have you read this?

"What Clinton wishes she could say"

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9564.html

Julie...Your post to Warren made me laugh out loud. Thank you! Now I'm gonna' be watching for Hillary's stinkeye when she turns it on our Warren....

And Warren...I agree...mayonnaise sandwiches are wonderful! My discovery of that was probably not nearly as innocent as yours...I simply love mayonnaise.

harborwoman...

I know you were joking. Anyone else would probably be a different story.

Take care.

anon:

"what's left of the Democratic Party."

Don't worry about this. The Party is growing. Think of all the new Dems Obama signed up just in PA. That is happening all over (including a lot of defectors from the GOP).

(And don't worry about the Clintonites. They will not leave the Democratic party - and any of them that are real Democrats will not be voting for McCain this year.)

Gordo:

Given the incredible irony of some of your posts - I am absolutely amazed that it is unintentional.

Gordo,

Re your post of 11:14. I a surprized that politico put out that Article. They had been pretty well BO positive before. Amazing. Maybe someone got the idea he should say something about both - good and bad.

Julie

"And Warren...I agree...mayonnaise sandwiches are wonderful"

Sorry guys it's was always salad dressing for me..i think it is the vinegar taste.:)

Max , Curiiously, do you post any comments without at leaat one the words being Auchi, Ayers or Rezko in it? Not sure what your fixation is with these guys , but you have one. imo

"She and Bill Clinton both devoutly believe that Obama’s likely victory is a disaster-in-waiting."

Talk about being "out of touch" (and not to mention "self serving")

(This is often what happens to lawyers when they are trying a case.)

And if Obama is handling himself this well when he is taking fire on two fronts - I can't wait till he is just taking on McCain. (Plus - all the attack dogs from the Clinton camp can lay off Obama and Keith-O and start attacking the GOP.)

Burrito

I was asking Warren. He kept going off on the "Hillary is much worse" tangent which wasn't my point at all. You have it exactly right. It wasn't the story it was the total non vetting of this candidate by the media.

Cucumber and mayonnaise, salt and pepper, on a hearty bread sandwiches are awesome.

yum. : )

Hasn't anyone but me gotten fixated on Oscar Mayer
snackable packages. Ritz crackers, bologna rounds and cheddar cheese and 2 chips ahoy chocolate cookies. Excellent lunch.. or snack.
addictive
Julie

UB...That sounds good, too...may have to try it!

And rez, I hear ya. My brother prefers salad dressing to mayo, also.

Yeah Jamie, I know. I have notice that many times instead of an answer a blogger will reply with statement. Kind of like what a politicians do, when they do not have a good answer.

: )

Haven't gotten into snackables yet, Julie, but I know what they are...have seen them at the store. They're really good, huh?

"Rip off the duct tape and here is what they would say: Obama has serious problems with Jewish voters (goodbye Florida), working-class whites (goodbye Ohio) and Hispanics (goodbye, New Mexico)."

So are the Clintons saying these voters are racists?

(Don't tell Wendy...she does not believe is making such broad generalizations - and I wonder how she will feel that the Clintons are making such claims behind the scenes.)

This is such bullshit. Again - for the gazillionth time - these voters are not not voting for Obama because they are racist or because they have a "serious problem" with him - they are not voting for Obama because they are loyal Clinton supporters (and thus view her opponent in the worst possible light). And any spin to the contrary is destructive and devisive for our Country and demeaning to those voters.

(I remember when I first came here and thought if I can just tell these people about Obama - they would switch from Hillary to Obama. After a few weeks - I learned (the hard way) that they only way loyal Clinton supporters will vote for Obama is if they hear a concession speech from HRC. And I get that now.)

Donuts.

EdVB...

Sending good thoughts your way. Another friend of mine just lost his dad. Sometimes I think we were lucky to have had our parents around for far longer than they had theirs, but then I remember how difficult it is to lose them...no matter how old we are. My dad died in 1976, and my mom in 1999...and I still miss them both. I'm glad your relationship with your dad was so good that you think of him daily.

"The first is based on the campaign so far. Assuming voting patterns evident in the nominating contest continue into the fall, Obama would be vulnerable if McCain can approximate the traditional GOP performance in key states."

This is a ridiculous statement. It is an argument that could be made against ANY Democratic nominee - since the "traditional GOP performance" has been winning the general election. It also ignores the fact that Obama has attracted new voters, Independents and Republicans.

I posted this once so I will post it again. This site is more than likely a pro republican site and I will not link to it because of that.

I know that many will doubt the losses here under the Clinton Presidency but I'm sure you all who are better looker upers than I am can find the same totals if you really care to find them.

Democratic Losses under the Bill Clinton Presidency.

"THE HIDDEN ELECTION

USA Today calls it "the hidden election," in which nearly 7,000 state legislative seats are decided with only minimal media and public attention. But there was an important national story here: evidence of the disaster that Bill Clinton was for the Democratic Party. According to the National Conference of State Legislatures, Democrats held a 1,542 seat lead in the state bodies in 1990. As of 1998 that lead had shrunk to 288. That's a loss of over 1,200 state legislative seats, nearly all of them under Clinton. Across the US, the Democrats controled only 65 more state senate seats than the Republicans.

Further, in 1992, the Democrats controlled 17 more state legislatures than the Republicans. After 1998, the Republicans controlled one more than the Democrats. Not only was this a loss of 9 legislatures under Clinton, but it was the first time since 1954 that the GOP had controlled more state legislatures than the Democrats (they tied in 1968).

Here's what happened to the Democrats under Clinton, based on our latest figures:

- GOP seats gained in House since Clinton became president: 48
- GOP seats gained in Senate since Clinton became president: 8
- GOP governorships gained since Clinton became president: 11
- GOP state legislative seats gained since Clinton became president: 1,254
as of 1998
- State legislatures taken over by GOP since Clinton became president: 9
- Democrat officeholders who have become Republicans since Clinton became
president: 439 as of 1998
- Republican officeholders who have become Democrats since Clinton became president: 3"

Not very pretty figures are they?

The Mariners are kicking some serious Kansas City butt! It's 9 to 4 in the bottom of the 5th! Go, Ms!!!

Harborwoman:

Oh yeah, I buy 3 or more a week. They also have ham & cheese. But the bologna are the best , I believe.

Reminds me of the tom ? song about being put in jail in a small country town and the jailers wife in spite of feeding fried bologne 3 times a day, even she started to look good after a while... : ))
Was it tom T Hall. He also did the song about old pickup trucks..
Julie

Julie...

Not sure whose song it was, but it sounds entertaining. Thanks for another chuckle!

And now, the stars are beginning to dance. Must go watch....

See y'all tomorrow!

EdVB,

I know how you feel about your Dad. I am in the same boat just a couple years ahead of you. I feel comfort and pride whenever my thoughts turn to my Dad. He was a good guy. : )

Your daughter must be a great cook. lol

HW,

Thank you. Just one more food reference before I turn in for the night. Favorite sandwich for my Dad and I before I hit my teens. He called it a "cannibal sandwich", but in later years I learned it's called tatar. Raw hamburg, salt, pepper, and maybe some chopped onion if there was any around.

Good night all.

There are certain lines, for each of us they are different....it's really not in any of our best interests to cross them.

It serves no good purpose.

Hey EdVB...

Before I turn in I too would like to say that I may feel about my sister next holiday season like you feel about your dad since he passed on.

I know you miss him very much and I'm sure he is watching over you every day.

Take care and ...

God Bless.

One of the reasons I love the English Tea Shop here are the variety of sandwiches. The cucumber ones are delicious.

AP - I wouldn't blame those Republican gains on Bill Clinton. There is a whole background story about the Evangelicals following a nationwide plan beginning in about 1976 to take over school boards and move up from there using their church coalitions in as many uncontested elections as possible. It was a steady take over that culminated in the massive Rove planned assault on Congress.

If anything he and the moderate Democrats held the far right somewhat in check because it was the far left seats everywhere that the fundies were going after. They timed it all to be in position for the gerrymandering following the census. By the time the general public woke up to the over reach it took a lot to undo the machine. Fortunately for the Democratic party, power corrupts and the Republicans over reached. It still took until 2006 to ge the majorities back.

Great name on the sandwich!

Tomorrow this "Bitter and Sour" thread will be gone.

Peace everyone ~

EdvB

I hope your memories of your father are warm and gentle and that the memories are sweet.

It really doesn't matter how old your are when you lose a parent, you are still an orphan when they are gone.

jamie...

Yes they did take it back in the House and had a chance in the Senate until Charles Schumer back stabbed the Connecticut Democrats who rejected Judas Iscariot Lieberman.

And what did they do once they got it back. NOTHING.

Before the election I called my Senator and said don' t vote for the MCA of 2006, this is not a power any President should have and I was told the Senator wouldn't vote for it.

My Senator betrayed me and the rest of America. The Senate with enabling Democrats gave this insane madman the power to label anyone including American Citizens as Enemy Combatants and strip them of their rights under what once was the Constitution.

I thought that perhaps that was why Nancy Pelosi too Impeachment off the table. They were all afraid of being labeled Enemy Combatants by the very same madman they gave this power to.

Now I'm not so sure as just like Iraq after the people gave them a mandate to end the war they didn't and ignored the will of the very same people who gave them the majority in the House and tried to give it to them in the Senate.

I have read that they wanted to leave Iraq going so they could use it as a wedge in the 2008 elections to take back the White House.

Now if I am right about what I have been posting and commenting on for over two years the possibility of having elections canceled and Martial Law enacted is a very real possibility.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, move along.

And just for the record Republicans aren't the only ones who have had corruption issues. I'm an equal opportunity basher and don't like any politician who is corrupt be it Republican or be it Democrat.

Anyway I need to turn in, another day another dollar.

Will one of you Obama haters please explain why Obama can't win the general election, but Hillary can. Start by listing the states that went for Kerry in 2004, that will now go to McCain. I'll wait.................................................................. I'm still waiting.

Dave------------------

I don't believe it is possible to explain anything to Obama supporters - they are in a "fantasy world". If Obama gets the nomination, all of you are going to shocked at how fast and far Obama falls. The ferocity of the Repub Attack/Smear machine will be like nothing you can imagine

Hillary can always find a few people who will say just about anything she wants them to say. What does that show? Nothing. It certainly doesn't show that Obama's comment was wrong. No sensible person would interpret his comment to apply to every single person. In fact, one interpretation of "people in small towns..." is "[Some] people in small towns..." although most likely he meant "[A substantial number of] people in small towns..." It would be absurd to think he meant "[All] people in small towns..."

shouting insults will not get my vote. Team Clinton dont have answers for the issues that are fought everyday, so she insults, why should she be President,when she cant pay her bills, she will not even explain why she nor her workers answer the phone when the vendors call for payment. Her "sheep" seem to be following her and Team Clinton right off the cliff . When she is losing the popular vote, the deligates, and has lost more states than Obama, when she is losing more super deligates, she start insulting,and from the looks of the posts,i see her fans joining her.
How can HILLCO call Obama "elitist" she's the one that comes from a upper middle class background,Team Clinton made 109 million,damn that sounds elitist to me.

For all of those, disgruntled about the words "bitter feelings" or statement about guns and religion...did you even take the time to read the transcripts or listen to the entire statement or did you just let the media tell you what to think, ...it is really sad that so many of us are so many statements out of context or can even think for themselves...

"Instead he urged the volunteer to tell Pennsylvania voters he encountered that Obama's campaign is about something more than programs and talking points. It was at this point that Obama began to talk about addressing the bitter feelings that many in some rural communities in Pennsylvania have about being brushed aside in the wake of the global economy. Senator Obama appeared to theorize, perhaps improvidently given the coverage this week, that some of the people in those communities take refuge in political concerns about guns, religion and immigration. But what has not so far been reported is that those statements preceded and were joined with additional observations that black youth in urban areas are told they are no longer "relevant" in the global economy and, feeling marginalized, they engage in destructive behavior. Unlike the week's commentators who have seized upon the remarks about "bitter feelings" in some depressed communities in Pennsylvania"

Please forgive BHO for his truthful comments, he was avoiding Sniper Fire when he said them.

Why is this even a story, what he said is true and most pennsylvanians didn't even find it offensive until they were told that they should be offended. And then only the Hillary supporters became offended.

But on the same day that this became big news, GWB admitted that HE authorized the war crimes of torture and this got ZERO news in the MSM.

PAY ATTENTION TO THE IMPORTANT STUFF!!!

Thanks...Progressive Patriot, what are the odds people might actually think for themselves..no one was mad, until Hillary told them they were.........next!!

Historical Quote of the Day -- Bill Clinton, in his 2004 memoirs, My Life, making the same argument as Sen. Barack Obama.

"If [Republicans] could cut funding for Medicare, Medicaid, education, and the environment, middle-class Americans would see fewer benefits from their tax dollars, feel more resentful paying taxes, and become even more receptive to their appeals for tax cuts and their strategy of waging campaigns on divisive social and cultural issues like abortion, gay rights, and guns."