Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

"A nice person showed us around the building. He had an Obama button on. Just goes to prove that people supporting differing candidates can show respect for each other. This person recommended restaurants to the out of town people..They were excellent recommendations."

OD -- That's good to hear. Especially after what Jamie just experienced.

Obama has bigger problems than this dust-up. Right now he is only winning one of the historically significant Democratic and general election constituencies: Blacks, but not women, white males, Hispanics, Blue Collar, etc. Oh, the Media and his campaign can slice and dice these traditional consituencies by age, income, education to find groups that he is winning, but Come On! I'm with Hillary that He Can't Win.

I think Hillary's Big States - Electoral Votes story-line will become more persuasive should Obama falter. What would the pledged delegate count be if the Democratic primaries were winner-take-all (like the Republicans) and all of the super- delegates associated with her victories voted for her?

As a loyal Democrat I will vote for either of our nominees, but I fear that the math just doesn/t work for Obama. He even loses Independents to McCain.

this is the first time i've heard a note of what sounded like frustration in obama's voice. npr played some tape of him clarifying his remarks this morning. much as i admire and like the guy, i agree with john hogue that clinton has a better chance of beating mccain in november. (pardon the lack of caps. killer sinus headache makes using the shift key seem like too much trouble.)

In trying to understand how Mr Obama actually feels about working class voters, what happened here in South Carolina jumped to mind.

I honestly think that here he used his superb organization to transmute frustration over slow economic progress and residuals of segregation into an acutely painful racial bitterness that drove people to protest at (thank God) the polls.

Just now, after two months, are black and white people starting to enjoy being around each other once again and starting to recognize that many of their problems cross race.

I have no doubt that my vote here is meaningless because this state will go Republican in the Fall. And, I suspect many black voters will recognize that they were manipulated in the primary. How they'll vote in the general is a matter of conjecture.

I think his remarks in California actually do reflect his disdain for working class voters who, because of their failure to change their circumstance, are embittered, distrustful, and seeking refuge in churches. Further, I think he will use the same organizational skills he used here to create such dissatisfaction that lower income people will overwhelmingly support him in the polls.

Now, his strategy has been voiced, albeit to his elite financial backers. And voters have the chance to evaluate whether his message is genuine or Hamelinian.

If you did not watch Washington Journal on C-SPAN this morning they served up another wake up call on the problems of food, population, and fuel. The rates of starvation around the world are climbing. More and more land is being given over to population. Large amounts of acreage are being turned from food production to fuel production (instead of wind/solar/and garbage). When all this is combined with the destruction of species and exhaustion of land with global warming. It's going to get ugly out there.

Just hit snooze. You can all roll over and go back to sleep now.

Jamie, c-span is always on in the background here (except when Stinky changes it for something more exciting). Funny how it's taken over the role that CNN enjoyed for so many years.

"they served up another wake up call on the problems of food, population, and fuel. The rates of starvation around the world are climbing. > When all this is combined with the destruction of species and exhaustion of land with global warming. It's going to get ugly out there."

Jamie -- Yes, this is the bubbling going on right under the surface. I've seen several reports of late about rioting because of food -- the news coming in from Haiti is especially ominous. If we think oil is a problem, wait until it's food and water.

From the first time I saw Obama, I picked up that he was a bit arrogant, a bit frou frou elitest. And his wife, Michele, seems even more disconnected from the average middle-class American. Maybe their own barely concealed bitterness toward what they see as a "mean" country is what they're projecting on the masses. If Obama becomes the nominee, I doubt he can win the election against McCain. Obama doesn't connect to many mainstream voters and he's alienated Clinton supporters completely. Most of my Democratic women friends will not vote for Obama no matter what. If "O" becomes the nominee, Dems will get a big surprise in the fall when huge numbers of Clinton supporters don't support Obama--all those "old" white women.

Perhaps after his nasty remarks about embittered working class voters, Obama might begin to receive the sort of scrutiny-under
the-microscope examination that Mrs. Clinton has undergone since
she announced her intention to run for President. But, Mr. Slick Obama-man
will probably get another pass. MSNBC, the Obama cable channel,
will no doubt deluge its news shows on Monday with Chris Mathews,
Keith Olbermann, and Tim Russert, Obama's wing men, who'll spin
Obama's put down of the working classes into "what he really meant was..."
and show pictures of him dazzling starry- eyed nineteen year olds.

I hope, you, Craig, don't turn into one of the punditzillas--drooling
androids courting Obama without critical thinking or objectivity.

You seem so charming nurturing your garden the other day. Please
don't lose your journalistic honor.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/human-footprint/

This is a special about the human footprint, it airs tonight. Looks interesting.

From the first time I saw Obama, I picked up that he was a bit arrogant,

Posted by: prof marcia

Understated but accurate. I think Craig is quite singular in his honest assessments.

toast

http://www.thehumorarchives.com/joke/bitter_persons_horoscope

BHO born August 4 -
Leo (July 23-Aug. 22)
You consider yourself a born leader. Others think you are pushy. Most Leos are bullies. You are vain and cannot tolerate honest criticism. Your arrogance is disgusting. Leo people are thieving bastards and kiss mirrors a lot.

( tongue in cheek)

As I read the comments here, I have to honestly say that many of you sound bitter. This whole flap appears to be another re-enactment of "a gaffe in Washington is telling the truth".

Sorry, typo in my last post. The work is "elitist."

another typo-- word not work...sorry...I've been up doing my
taxes all night.

ah.......Jimmie Carter says he does not endorse anyone yet and will not until the convention.......

"Leo (July 23-Aug. 22)
You consider yourself a born leader. Others think you are pushy. Most Leos are bullies. You are vain and cannot tolerate honest criticism. Your arrogance is disgusting. Leo people are thieving bastards and kiss mirrors a lot. "

Ha! My birthday: August 18.

Bitter is one of those terms that truly can cuts into persons core. It is a mean-spirited word, unless being use to discibe flavor.

Whenever people describe people they do not know personally, it is a reflection of the speakers thoughts and beliefs. It is that simple. Obama said what he thought was true, I do not know why that is so difficult to grasp.

Bitter was only one word of the whole quote, and the rest of it was equally as bad if not worse.

He'll get a pass from the press, but, people do not take kindly to being insulted, and usually they do not forget.

Before wading into the "bitter" flap, day 2 on C List, thanks to Jamie and Patsi for bringing up C-Span's program on starvation on the increase worldwide. Had not been following that.

It's very easy to get caught up in the politics of this affluent country and too easy to forget the life and death choices other peoples and economies face. (Yes, we have hunger in America too, but not on a structural level as found elsewhere.)

Kudos to Flatus, too, for reminding us of C-Span's importance in a country where CNN has gone infotainment and ratings-driven.

I really miss Headline News of several years back, where you could tune in at 3:30 a.m. and get a recap of overnight and day's news. Today you are as likely to find Glenn Beck -- horrors -- or their Hollywood show.

Guess CNN figures most insomniac newshounds get their news online; they actually drive you to your laptop at that hour. Just try to get some new info from CNN, unless something extraordinary is happening. Nope, you get third rerun of Larry King and other rebroadcasts.

Welcome also to John Hogue, and return of prof marcia and jericho and even the urbane (but wrongheaded!!) toast.

Pasti ,
All the horoscopes are bad -that's what makes them funny.

: )

kissing mirrors....lol

this is mine : (

Capricorn (Dec. 22-Jan. 19)
You are conservative and afraid of taking risks. You are basically chicken. There has never been a Capricorn of any importance. You should kill yourself.

jericho4119

"I have to honestly say that many of you sound bitter."

Bitter doesn't even begin to describe my mood this morning.
Although, taking down the old varmit rifle and killing some thing on the way to church might help.

You know, living in a neighborhood with many Mexican immigrants has improved my life. Not only do I get great home made tamales on a regular basis.

They have also given me a great word for mornings like this one.
Pendejo

I find my self muttering it more and more lately.

A good song for this morning.
Johnny Cash-Sunday Morning Coming Down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Cru2ld06-A

Jack

I just read a fascinating article this morning by Mike Allen "12 Reasons
Bitter Is Bad for Obama" on Politico about why Obama's remark could be a turning point in the campaign. The writer lists the reasons this
misstep is worse for Obama than Rev. Wright. Allen seems to think this
is a real stumbling point for the Obama momentum.

I agree with Obama.

People in small towns have seen their real wages declining, their benefits shrinking, and their jobs being outsourced. Businesses that can't outsource (like midwestern meat packers) are busy hiring illegals.

These epope, ARE bitter, and they DO turn to religion and guns, in part because those are the GOP's wedge issues. The Republicans have people believing that, "I don't have a job, but I'm OK because I still have my guns."

Obama is correct in shifting the blame to the Repblicans, and to pro-business "neo-liberals" like the Clintons, who brought us NAFTA, saying it would "create jobs."

Obama's ideas are the future of the Democratic party, if it wishes to have a future. Clintons's ideas are just the same old Republican ideas, dressed up in fake liberal landguage.

Nash,

Do you think Obama should have stuck to his guns (so to speak) ?

OK, Talking Points Memo published a letter from "Theda Skocpol" today without identifying her at all.

However, Theda Skocpol exists and who she is is as interesting as her letter. Per Wikipedia (edited for brevity):

Theda Skocpol (born May 4, 1947) is an American sociologist and political scientist at Harvard University.

Was Dean of the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences from 2005-07; has written widely for both popular and academic audiences and in 2007 won one of the world's most prestigious prizes in political science.

She is Harvard's first tenured female sociologist; she sued Harvard in the early 1980s and won her case proving gender discrimination.

She writes on social policy and civic engagement; wrote a 1996 book on Clinton's Health Security Plan and co-authored a book on progressive politics with Stan Greenberg, former Clinton pollster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theda_Skocpol

Establishing her credentials here, because letter follows in next link.

Oh, in passing the TV - I heard that he said he "regretted' what he said.

"Obama's ideas are the future of the Democratic party, if it wishes to have a future. "

The future of the Democratic party is to praise Ronnie Reagan and trash Bill Clinton, then turn around and bend over for the Republicans and "hope" they don't screw you? Who knew?

Kris doing "Sunday Morning Coming Down"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp7kRaQlLHY

Jack

This all gives Obama the opportunity to present a speech on Tuesday, that will be seen as the greatest speech on bitterness since time began.

Theda Skocpol's letter or email to Talking Points, it's concise so I am putting up full text TPM published:

"I have been in meetings with the Clintons and their advisors where very clinical things were said in a very-detached tone about unwillingness of working class voters to trust government -- and Bill Clinton -- and about their unfortunate (from a Clinton perspective) proclivity to vote on life-style rather than economic issues. To see Hillary going absolutely over the top to smash Obama for making clearly more humanly sympathetic observations in this vein, is just amazing. Even more so to see her pretending to be a gun-toting non-elite. Give us a break!

I wonder if she realizes that gaining a few days of lurid publicity that might reach a slice of voters is going to cost her a great deal in the regard of many Democrats, whose strong support she will need if she somehow claws her way to the nomination -- and even more so if she does not clinch the nomination. The distribution of "we're not bitter" stickers to her campaign rallies is the height of over-the-top crudity, and the reports are that very few audience members seem to have much enthusiasm for this nonsense. Not surprisingly, people cannot see the reasons for so much fuss.

Yes, she wants a big break, she desperately wants the nomination she and Bill believe is hers by right. We all know that. But where is her authenticity and her dignity and her sense of any proportion?

This has to be one of the few times in U.S. political history when a multi-millionaire has accused a much less wealthy fellow public servant, a person of the same party and views who made much less lucrative career choices, of "elitism"! (I won't say the only time, because U.S. political history is full of absurdities of this sort.) In a way, it is funny -- and it may not be long before the jokes start."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/188673.php

I am wondering if people are missing the point in Obama regret? He said IF IF I said said something wrong I regret. IF he cannot even take responsibility for his actions. He does not believe he said a thing wrong. He even ended his "regret" statement with I stand by what I said.
People want him to be our president? What can they be thinking.
Between this and listening to Wright for 20 years, this man SHOULD NOT be president. It is a bit scary.
Remember this was the man who had a POSITIVE attitude, an uplifting attitude. WRONG

I wonder how they knew how long to leave a roast in the oven before time began........

Wonder if Obama has ever used the term "bitter" to describe his wife, Michelle?

"This has to be one of the few times in U.S. political history when a multi-millionaire has accused a much less wealthy fellow public servant, a person of the same party and views who made much less lucrative career choices, of "elitism"! "

I guess she got the memo. I'm not a multi-millionaire and I think he's condescending as hell.

Like several here, this woman can't stand the fact that a Bubba got rich. And PLEASE don't send in a Democrat who will actually be a fighter. Send in a charmer. Kind of like throwing a poodle into a pen of pit bulls. Every day in every way I see more Liebermans showing up in Obama's camp.

Burrito

That astrology link reminded me of an old comedy routine about the different signs. The only one I remember clearly was Aries and the character "Peter P. Pushy" who broke down the door. The closest thing on You Tube is "I Am The Ram".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CWnp5wOz6c

There are songs for each of the signs.

Just few days ago all the Clinton supporters were whining about how "sexist" the MSM was, and how it was giving Obama a free ride.

Now the MSM and the Hillary people are conspiring to distort the meaning of Obama's comments, because they don't want to recognize the insightful point he was making. It disrupts their simplistic worldview; it challenges their basic assumptions.

And they can't have that. Both the MSM and the Hillary campaign are based on an absence of ideas, in pursuit of profit and power.

Clinton was already winning WV and KY by 20+ after Obama's "people in small towns don't support me because they're bitter, gun loving bigots" I'm thinking she could win those two states by 30% now. ROFL.

"Kind of like throwing a poodle into a pen of pit bulls"

lol

That image just fits with this morning

We are so screwed.

Jack

"Clinton has undergone since she announced her intention to run for President. "

It won't be from the media...they craddled him in their arms yesterday and said "there there Obomie...MSM will take care of everything...don't you worry" and then proceeded to somehow make this all Clinton's fault. This of course was on CNN...not sure about the others...MSNBC was of course running murder shows and prison shows all day ROFL.

btw...high prof. Marcia

Funny Jamie : )

Jack

"how long to leave a roast in the oven before time began........"

No ovens. The sun took care of timing and the roast was burning over an open fire.

BHO quote:

“It's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”

Obama's comments are useful because they may open up a substantive debate about the impact that conservative economic policies have had on the middle and lower classes.

IF we can have a real debate, and not a shallow barrage of sound bites and slogans from Clinton and McCain.

True Wendy! Did you see Jim Acosta yesterday? Who died? He said Clinton has been waiting for this and will "use" it? Oh she is sooo mean. Guess what the people are not THAT stupid. Go PA!

Some more of those bitter folks that ain't votin' Democrat this year.

Craig Morgan-Redneck Yacht Club
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsGOX7DMVCg

Jack

Dog keep barking. It is absolutely clear that the NeoLiberal Elite along with the more radical wing is pushing Obama. And this person doesn't even have the BRAINS to see what Carol just said. He is so friggin arrogant, HE WON"T BE LECTURED BY ANYONE unless they're WRIGHT. To accuse Clintons of being an elitiist because they're wealthy is absurd given the backing by Soros, Auchi and Oprah of Obama. The Clinton's have always known that they represent the NEW DEMOCRATS which appeal to the more working class, centrist group of the Party. Did YOU just discover this? I suggest you take a good look at San Fran and see the history of the split between the elite and the Middle. No wonder so many blacks have LEFT San Fran.

In any case I submit this.

http://obamawtf.blogspot.com/2008/04/canadian-media-points-to-obamas-ties-to.html

And before you all cry that some blogs linked to WTF are Republican or Conservative, read the articles which are mostly well documented. They will CRASH on Obama's head in the general. You will see that there is a huge disconnect between what Obama is selling and what his history and record show. The particular article from Canada reveals why Nader said Obama was pro-Palestinian before running. He was being kind, but then don't expect an apology from Obama.

Wendy!: did you see my Theda Skocpol comments?

Would think observations by such a groundbreaking and acclaimed sociologist (and check out the publications list -- she wrote a 1996 book on the Clinton Health Security Plan) would carry some weight with you.

RE polls: I'd be interested in seeing them closer to the weekend; lots of time for this to play out.

I think this might be the moment Hillary jumped the shark; it's an obviously overreaching attack on Obama and she has none of Bill's usual finesse.

Jamie

I believe Sturgeone ask that profound philosophical question.
People often confuse us, I'm the good looking one

Jack

What Clinton wishes she could say

"Here is why: She and Bill Clinton both devoutly believe that Obama’s likely victory is a disaster-in-waiting. Naive Democrats just don’t see it. And a timid, pro-Obama press corps won’t tell the story.

Far from a no-holds-barred affair, the Democratic contest has been an exercise in self-censorship.

Republicans will also ruthlessly exploit openings that Clinton — in the genteel confines of an intraparty contest — never could. Top targets: Obama’s radioactive personal associations, his liberal ideology, his exotic life story, his coolly academic and elitist style.

This view has been an article of faith among Clinton advisers for months, but it got powerful new affirmation last week with Obama’s clumsy ruminations about why “bitter” small-town voters turn to guns and God.

That is why some friends describe Clinton as seeing herself on a mission to save Democrats from themselves.

Skepticism about Obama’s general election prospects extends beyond Clinton backers. We spoke to unaffiliated Democratic lawmakers, veteran lobbyists and campaign operatives who believe the rush of enthusiasm for Obama’s charisma and fresh face has inhibited sober appraisals of his potential weaknesses.

The frustration and even anger emananating from the Clintonites comes from being unable to say in public what they think in private."

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9564.html

Obama's comments are intended to stimulate thought about economic policy. I guess that's why he's called an "elitist."

Hillary uses racist code words to incite the gun-toting rednecks into hating blacks, and blaming them for all their problems. (The Republicans are angry because she's stealing their strategy.)

Get a clue, Hillary people.

All the bitter, unemployed, church-going gun nuts are going to vote for McCain, no matter how much she panders to them.

I agree with nash here, and I am a bit bewildered that Obama is not being heralded as being honestly bold as he accurately described the attitudes of working people.
Certainly, bitterness trumps contentedness these days as people try to survive.
In my own experience , I have noticed , for example, a piece of cheese costs 20% more than it did in January.
People just try to find a way, work all they can, and still see a declining lifestyle.
Yes, Clinton and Gore pushed NAFTA, and working people complained, but were shouted down by even the leadership of the unions because wages and real buying power increased under Clinton .
The workers could see the long-term effects a-coming, the leadership could not and would not.
It was "don't rock the boat" and since things were going so well, Clinton and Gore got a pass on NAFTA.
It's good to see that Obama is not backing away from the content of his remarks.
We, the hayseeds of fly-over land ,know that he knows us, heart and soul.

Welcome also to John Hogue, and return of prof marcia and jericho and even the urbane (but wrongheaded!!) toast

Posted by: dog hussein dog.

We respectfully disagree and civility reigns while the angels weep to a background chorus of "Sunny Boy".

Remember this was the man who had a POSITIVE attitude, an uplifting attitude. WRONG

Posted by: Carol

Your spot on. IF!

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings--nor lose the common touch,

--Rudyard Kipling

toast

I have also noticed that "elites" has replaced "elitists" in the modern vernacular. Even Frank Rich has switched the words.
I wonder why?

We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know that is not true.
---Robert Wilensky, speech at a 1996 conference.

Sincerely,
One Monkey

Jack that's what I get for taking the high road and failing to look down below.

Calling religion and guns the bitter fall back of the Blue Collar workers is meant to stimulate economic conversations? WTF is certainly right.

And support of Wright is meant to stimulate a converstation about race.

Support of Khalidi is mean to stimulate a converation about the existence if Israel.

Support of Ayers is meant to stimulate a converation about the criminality of the US government and "rich people".

Support of Meeks and Lee is meant to stimulate a converation about the immorality of gays.

Perhaps Democrats ought not to be so stimulated if they want to win the White House.

And Obama's economic plans? Here is a good one: cut defense spending so American and pay for even more than 67% of foreign students in our graduate programs.

McCain and the 100 years statement.

I am McCain's "Ernest Hemingway"

I was the questioner at the January 3 Town Hall Meeting in Derry, NH, who McCain called Ernest Hemingway and who asked him what he hoped to accomplish in Iraq and how long it would take. When I pressed him for a time frame and cited George Bush's figure of fifty years, Senator McCain shocked me by saying "Maybe a hundred".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-tiffany/mccain-told-me-100-years_b_95522.html

Dexter,

""elites" has replaced "elitists" "

For years the far right freeper wing of the Republican party has been using the code words "liberal elites" to describe the far left wealthy wing of the Democratic party. it has now caught on to mean a kind of knee jerk liberalism that refuses to question itself just as that far right knee jerk gang refuses to question themselves.

The broad middle thinks both sides are crazy.

Dex:

"Elites" are rich people.

"Elitists" are intellectuals who argue that govt policies should favor the rich. (e.g. Milton Friedman & WF Buckley.)

Calling Obama an "elitist" is Orwellian double-speak. The GOP and the Clinton wing of the Democratic party are the real elitists, but they cleverly slap that label on progressives to drive a wedge between them and white lower-class voters, who would otherwise be their allies.

The word "CLING" is also damaging.

Gordo: Fabric softener will prevent "clinging."

No Nash, all those Red States Obama thinks he owns will vote for McCain including some Blue ones if Obama runs. It is funny how clueless you are.

Yes, Dexter, hail Obama. Is that what's going on. When falling in shit, say, hey, lets fall deeper. Sounds like good judgment to me.

You cling to your obvious sound reasoning and the Middle class will cling to their religion. Kind of shows what Obama thinks about his religion. And when he was in Peen he tried to spin a pro-gun position.

He has heard the Superdelegates talking about his electibility and told the elite that the Middle is just bitter and clings to religion and gun because they're economically stressed. That's just what dumb Blue Collar people do. Smart people like Obama cling to Rezko, a dn have friends like Ayers and Khalidi. They take money from Soros. Obama just got called on his BS, but Obamniacs want to tar Hillary and divert attention from the "smartest and most intelligent candidate in the race".

Have fun with that......

Have fun explaining to Americans why a person who just said that 9/11 NEVER HAPPENED should sit across the table from a US President and discuss our "relationship". Anyone know who the Middle East leader is?

"Obama's comments are intended to stimulate thought about economic policy. I guess that's why he's called an "elitist."

Actually not--Obama's "bitter" comments were made in response to a question posed as to why he was not winning over PA voters, raised at a meeting
of affluent contributors assembled at a San Fran fundraiser's billionaire's row home for a private $2,000+ fundraiser.

Clinging to a gun is bad because you can get oil on your clothes, and perspiration can cause rusting.

Clinging to a church is OK, unless it was just painted.

I know that I will vote for ANYONE but a democrat or republican

---Jesse Ventura

"It disrupts their simplistic worldview; it challenges their basic assumptions. "

Oh puh-leeze. Spare me the condescending crappola, Nash. There are more educated people than yourself on this blog. You remind me of an assistant prof I had in college. He thought he was the only available source, too.

Dog...I'll wait till they release the audio...

Talking Points Memo...now there is an objective source.

;-)

The beauty of it isn't what people say behind closed doors the beauty is that got ole Obomie on tape talking about why "typical white people" don't vote for him.

ROFL

Prof Marcia

I meant to say "HI" not "High" wow...completely different meaning. I'm glad you're here.

Dog logic:

1. Obama calls working class Americans ignorant redneck bigots clutching to guns and religion.

2. Hillary calls him out for saying shit that may bury him in the general.

3. Translation: Hillary jumps the shark.

Uh.....

Sturgeone: Loved that Robt Wilensky quote re the internet proving the "monkeys typing Shakespeare" theory wrong.

Thank you!

Gordo: that Politico story you put up was fascinating, although perhaps not for the reasons you intended. Reading it more closely and will comment on it later.

Whether it's about race or economic policy, Obama refuses to utter the conservative talking points that are accepted as "fact" by the both the MSM and the Clintons.

Anyone who dares to run for office in this country and does not espouse conservative dogma, will face the wrath of "the establishment" of both parties, and the MSM.

And Obama isn't even THAT progressive. Just a tiny bit.

"I guess she got the memo. I'm not a multi-millionaire and I think he's condescending as hell."

Me too...and thought this long before he said the "typical white people" comment and the "bitter, gun loving bigots" comment.

"Obama's comments are intended to stimulate thought about economic policy. I guess that's why he's called an "elitist."Hillary uses racist code words to incite the gun-toting rednecks into hating blacks, and blaming them for all their problems. (The Republicans are angry because she's stealing their strategy.) "

In your wet dreams, Nash. He was trying to give himself cover to big SF donors for the upcoming Pennsylvania loss. "They're racists! AND they got guns and bibles!" Are you really that politically naive?

Patsi: Clinton cannot win the general election if she plans to run on Republican ideas. Why vote for a watered-down Republican when you can vote for the real thing? (McCain.)

Of course, Clinton's real problem is that she can't win the nomination, unless she can bully the superdelegates into stealing it for her.

We'll see if the VOTERS in upcoming primaries buy into the MSM-fueled "church and gun" flap, or whether they ignore it, like they did the Rev. Wright flap.

Obama Visits Billionaires Row

"So although the San Francisco Bay Area is probably the most pro-Obama section of the entire country, with Obama signs and stickers visible everywhere you turn, when Obama himself actually visited his electoral home base, he ignored the hoi polloi -- all the little people who swoon over him -- and instead, he spent the entire day with the rich."

http://www.zombietime.com/obama_visits_billionaires_row/

Repeatedly, whenever Obama does not have talking points on hand or a prepared speech he says the damnedest things.
What in the world is he thinking?

It's like that SNL skit when Kristie Alley claims she hasn't gained her weight back, and Tina Fey says, "she knows we can see her, right?"

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/play.shtml?mea=229113

A snippet of video of the San Fran fundraiser was put out by Politico. The video-snippet shows only the statement before Obama's "bitter" comments, but it provides insight into what "elites" or "elitists"" find humorous. Can also access thru noquarter.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Video_from_San_Francisco.html

It's been fun taking abuse from all you bitter, small-town Hillary supporters, but I've got to go to church, and then I'll be going home to clean my guns and listen to the political commentary on Fox News.

They'll probably be arguing that ALL Democrats are elitists.

Elitism is bad, so I guess we should stop arguing about Obama and Clinton and just vote for McCain.

The biggest issue here is that Obama has played right into the hands of the GOP. Of COURSE the GOP has played to people's fears. And certainly what Obama said has some merit. But he made an across-the-board insulting generalization about people who own guns, religious people and rural people in general. Hillary had to run with this or risk democrats being once again branded as a bunch of contemptuous fops.

How damn dumb can a politician in America get?

But then, he's able to keep a lot of people on the slow boat to Guyana, so who knows?

"Actually not--Obama's "bitter" comments were made in response to a question posed as to why he was not winning over PA voters"

Right which makes his backpedaling non-apology explanation just as condescending. He went from calling them "bitter, gun loving bigots" to saying they were "small minded individuals who vote on one issue out of anger rather than capable of voting on issues and values that are important to them."

I wonder if it every occurred to him that they aren't voting for him because they don't like him, his friends and/or his policies? I wonder...

This week we saw a window into the thinking of Senator Barack Obama..

This week has revealed the ultimate election weakness of the Illinois senator which could lead the Democrats to electoral disaster in November.

"We'll see if the VOTERS in upcoming primaries buy into the MSM-fueled "church and gun" flap, or whether they ignore it, like they did the Rev. Wright flap."

Actually---I don't believe that any VOTERS have voted since the "Rev. Wright flap"-- so it remains to be seen whether voters in the upcoming primaries have ignored it or not.

The Politico clip is great...thought he'd go ahead and reinforce the part about them being BIGOTS...nice Barrack..good job.

And then all the rich white people laugh...

"We'll see if the VOTERS in upcoming primaries buy into the MSM-fueled "church and gun" flap, or whether they ignore it, like they did the Rev. Wright flap."

It's not the Democrats who'll do him in -- it's the indies and Repubs in the general. He's unelectable. And you will have given Bush a third term.

Wow....talk about "magic"...

I thought this weekend - all the news shows were going to be talking about Bill Clinton's latest gaffe re: Bosnia. But then all of a sudden - Obama's comments from a week or so ago - hit the news on Friday.

(Perfect or horrible timing depending on your perspective. And one has to wonder how Obama's comments made it into the news cycle - but no one seems to be concerned about that fact.)

And instead of talking about Wild Bill - the Clintonites are all over the news spreading another attack that can be used against the Democratic nominee in the fall.

It is almost comical to watch Evan Bayh - a blue blood born with a silver-spoon in his mouth and one of those politicians that keeps that "perma-grin" on his face as he sticks a knife right in Obama's back....

(Of course the Clinton camp ended up using McCain's attack. When the story first hit - Clinton was calling Obama's comments "demeaning" - way over the top. The GOP are better liars because they don't go as far. McCain used a spin that is much more believable, i.e., Obama is an elitist and out of touch...a standard Republican attack made against Dems.)

Anyways, have your fun this weekend and we will see what happens in PA. Remember that whatever people are talking about next weekend will be more likely to impact actual voting decisions in PA..

Patsi...you're last comment is spot on. The dim-witted Dems will go ahead and nominate him just like they did John Kerry and they'll lose the general election...enjoy President McCain.

Wendy --- When I watched the SF snippet I wondered
if It was just my perception that the audience seemed
to whole-heartedly enjoy the apparent "joke at the
expense of PA voters"--at a minimum condescending,
however truthfully sad to have video confirmation of
what many see as the great divide in this country.

Do you think the release of this snippet was intended to
help Obama--if so I think it further diminishes his
aura?

Also, will the msm play this over & over? Any bets?

I know Warren...isn't it great the big favor Obama did for Clinton...

Given that Obama will spend the week defending himself over the mounting whitey that won't vote for me is a stupid bigot comments he's made the past several weeks...I have a feeling we'll be talking about this next weekend. So I guess it really will depend on whether he can send a chill up Chris Matthews leg when he delivers his groundbreaking "Bitter in America" speech this week or not.

;-)

"I thought this weekend - all the news shows were going to be talking about Bill Clinton's latest gaffe re: Bosnia. But then all of a sudden - Obama's comments from a week or so ago - hit the news on Friday." - Warren

Oh yes, this is SUCH a burning and all-important issue of importance to people that are losing their jobs, homes, and God knows what else. Oil prices, Iraq and our failing economy pale in comparison to anything Bill Clinton says with respect to his wife.

Leave it to an Obama apologist to put things in the proper perspective for us.

And I guess all these attacks on Obama are "fair". Especially since Obama broke two cardinal rules of politics - speaking the truth (about stuff people don't want to hear about) and then apologizing for it.

(Just ask Carville - once you apologize - you implicitly admit you did something wrong.).

I think they thought it would help...but Politico does lean to the right...so maybe they saw what we saw. I think it reaffirms his view that people that don't buy his crap are bigots.

Fox will happily play it over and over MSNBO won't. But again...should give superDs pause.

Completely off topic but quote of the day:

James Carville [in response to Richardson's latest attempt to defend himself]: Richardson knows that I know the truth.

Reporting what Obama said is considered an ATTACK? Welcome to Hillary's word. How does it feel now that the shoe is on the other foot?

It's clear now that the Dems are going to lose another presidential election. Obama's "bitter" comment has finally given Clinton the perfect weapon to destroy him.

This will hand the election to McCain but I don't think Hillary or her followers care about that any more. Obama MUST be destroyed, regardless of the consequences.

Congratulations, Hillary people. VICTORY!

That should say "Hillary's world."

How distressing for Obamarama that the "Yes we can" express gets derailed by reality.

Nash...typical to blame Hillary for Obama's stupidity. What will lose the election for the Dems is nominating a candidate who hates white people and then talks about it in public. Turn that little finger right back around because it is YOUR candidate that has lost this election for the Dems.

sorry...I misspoke.,..what I meant to say was Obama hates "typical white people" he can't guilt trip into voting for him and talks about it in public.

Jamie:

The troubling think about starvation is Sam's Club. I mean while people are starving - we have stock piles of food - like a 5-pound jars of peanut butter - that are collecting dust on the shelves.

An interesting study would be how much food - that is still good and could be eaten - in industrialized nations is thrown away vs. how much food is needed to feed people that are starving all over the world.

Waste not - want not.

Obama is being destroyed by Obama!

Many on this site have been saying for a long time that time is Hillary's best friend.

But...before we all get ahead of ourselves..remember that in politics a week is a lifetime.

The twists and turns of the campaign will continue.

In the end, hopefully we will nominate the strongest candiatge for November.

I believe that candidae is Hillary Clinton.

Others may disagree.

Sorry Nash, I know how hard it is to grasp the idea that your candidate made a mistake and this flap is actually HIS fault.

Or am I to understand that Hillary is responsible for any gaffe made by the anointed one?

I see ... Hillary and her "pod" people planted some sort of message in Barack's brain with her icy stare at the Petraeus hearings ...

It caused the man of hope to say something that Hillary could use to "destroy" him. Hmmm, that must have been her plan all along. Why didn't we all see that coming?

I'm sure Keith Olbermann will have a special comment on Monday night to explain how Hillary used mind-control to trap Obama.

What Wendy? Obama hates me? Holy cow!! And to think all this time I have been supporting him and defending him...

Man - screw that guy. OD - get me a HRC sign - I am going to take it to the streets for her!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G54lfxiid_w

(I do enjoy you hyberbole though Wendy. If I am "Doris Day" - you are "Chicken Little")

A few weeks ago, FNC told how much airtime Rev Wright had received on broadcast and cable channels - not very much. It was from a few seconds to zero (I'm referring to GD America, etc.). Except for FNC, MSM downplayed the Rev's statements. They got coverage on right wing radio. Many "Typical White People" have not heard Rev Wright. Combine Wright with all that other "stuff" and Obama has little chance in the GE. Also, the Attack/Smear machine would cause Obama to lose some of his young/new supporters.

Warren, you wish MSM would still talk about Bosnia. Is that the extent of your strategy? News Flash: When Hillary was in Bosnia visiting our troops which were sent there by the Clinton administration (and MANY have verified that Hillary STRONGLY backed our intervention), Obama was hanging out with Khalidi and Ayers while Auchi's Oil for Food money was finding its way into Obama's political aspirations. Just remember that a you cling to your Obama high road.

While Obama was busy kissjing ass to anti-American and anti-Zionist promoters, Hillary was visitng real foreign hotspots, not establishing street cred with American's finest. So lament the fact that MSM can't beat the Bosnia story over and over and cover up the BS Obama is slinging.

You obviously haven't read the read facts about Obama's BS Pro-Israel history. I bet despite Obama telling Carter not to speak to HAMAS, when he returns to endorse Obama, Carter will find a warm place in an Obama administration along side his side kick ZBIG.

By your mreasure equating Hillary with McCain, ALL presidents have been Republicans....LOL You say exactly what this fight is about: NeoLIberals have tried to make centrists into Republicans. And when the country rejects that, blame Hillary.

Republicans can't govern, but we are seeing the reason Democrats can't get elected. Despite Bush, Dean and company cling to that gun they hold to their dense heads. Politico is right on target and I expect the Democrats to pull the trigger.

Good luck with that.

Speaking the truth Warren....wrong

apologizing for it? .....wrong again

Want to make it three for three? That will probably be your next post.

Hey - the story supposedly originates from Buddhist Indian folklore....interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sky_Is_Falling_%28fable%29

There are many versions of the story, but the basic premise is that a chicken eats lunch one day, and believes the sky is falling down because an acorn falls on her head. She decides to tell the King, and on her journey meets other animals who join her in the quest. In most retellings, the animals all have rhyming names such as Henny Penny. Finally, they come across Foxy Loxy, a fox who offers the chicken and her friends his help.

After this point, there are many endings. In the most famous one, Foxy Loxy eats the chicken's friends, but the last one, usually Cocky Lockey, survives enough to warn the chicken and she escapes. Other endings include Foxy eating them all; the characters being saved by a squirrel or an owl and getting to speak to the King; the characters being saved by the King's hunting dogs; even one version in which the sky actually falls and kills Foxy Loxy.

Depending on the version, the moral changes. In the "happy ending" version, the moral is not to be a "Chicken", but to have courage. In other versions the moral is usually interpreted to mean "do not believe everything you are told". In the latter case, it could well be a cautionary political tale: The Chicken jumps to a conclusion and whips the populace into mass hysteria, which the unscrupulous fox uses to manipulate them for his own benefit.

(Wendy - are you the chicken or the fox?)

Chelsea just had three very successful events in Eugene, Corvallis, and Portland.

I like it when the candidate adult children appear on behalf of their parent. I think it gives us insights into the parts of the candidate we rarely see.

I don't think the election has been lost, Wendy! (re your 12:44 a post)

Although: are you conceding that Obama is going to be the eventual nominee? If so, that is a welcome change of tune. Thank you there.

Do you honestly think Obama hates white people? That's an odd statement to have made.

Believe it or not, Wendy!, white people live in Illinois. (Frankly, they live in most US states.) And white people elected Obama. Does your state have an African American (OK, biracial) US senator? Who's in his '40s and got there without being a multimillionaire?

I see the frantic folks on this blog and it ain't the Obama people, once again.

Do you ever really think about Dexter's posts? He says Obama analyzed the problem correctly.

Hillary and surrogates can spin and spin this all week, but truth might just be its own defense here.

"Obama hates me?"

No Warren...you are one of the typical white people HE CAN guilt trip into voting for him

;-)

Once again, the "typical" Obama supporters will circle the wagons and defend their candidate with good old fashioned debate with well-reasoned fact-filled responses ...

Ooops! When all else fails, PERSONALLY attack ANYONE that dares to criticize Obama.

He's so different. He's going to change politics. Blah Blah Blah. Are you listening to me, you ignorant dumbass Billary supporters? What's wrong with you? Can't you see how much Obama has CHANGED every thing?

MaxTrue:

I had been meaning to bring up a conversation about Israel-Palestine. I heard the news talking about Former President Carter's decision to meet with leaders of Hamas. Now Obama said that he sticks with the official position - that we will not meet with Hamas. But that he would not tell Carter who he could or could not meet with - since Carter is a private citizen.

The official position is that we won't talk to Hamas because their stated position is to wipe Israel off the map. I get that.

But I ask you this Max. Shouldn't someone be talking to Hamas? To try and get them to back down from that insane position. Despite what you may think of Carter - I doubt very seriously he is engouraging Hamas to maintain that position. In fact, it is very likely he is giving them the counter-argument - or at least trying to change the subject to issues that people can agree on.

So while I see why it is important for the US to take a hard line officially - I think it is also important for powerful US leaders to work the back channels to get rid of the ignorance on which the position of Hamas is based.

(I haven't seen Carter on "This Week" yet - but I will watch it later and there will probably be more to discuss).

Wendy:

You overestimate the power guilt has on my actions.

(For better or worse, "shame' is not an emotion I often feel....)

Jack:

Wher do you get the homemade tamales? Oh man, where?

Patsi: Spot on girl on our 12:22 post.
t's not the Democrats who'll do him in -- it's the indies and Repubs in the general. He's unelectable. And you will have given Bush a third term.
\
You have to get new computer, Jack's U tube postings are top drawer..

Julie :-)

Warren, there is still time to beat McCain. All Obama has to do is to drop out and support Hillary. Now if Hillary does that, she will hand the election to McCain, so it should seem clear to you why Hillary stays in and why Obama should exit.

Of course, Obama would rather lose to McCain than have Hillary win. Given these last weeks, only a fool would still claim he will win those Red States and take the Blue ones only a Hillary can win. Since this was what Hillary supporters claimed from the start, knowing what is unfolding now would happen, who has better judgment? The candidate that ran knowing the holes in his story, or the one that knew she had the record and machine to win?

What these weeks have done was to show Obama, all by himself and his record, PROVE why he won't win. His tired rhetoric has become stale. He can't free style talking without shooting himself, he can't handle anger or bitterness and his story and spin is largely contrived fabrication. He hasn't even encountered the Republican Thresher Machine.

So blame GOD DAMN Hillary...LOL That was your third strike, but according to Obama rules, you have as many strikes as you want until the voters decide in November.

So, which story will MoJo lead with tomorrow-Hillary duck hunting or Barry's bitter comments?

GAKaren:

He is different:

Let's not forget we are talking about this story for two reasons. Obama (1) stated a "bitter truth" and then (2) apologized if the way in which his comments were taken out of context has offended anyone.

Truth and sincerity - not very politically correct - but the right thing to do nonetheless.

Old politics:

Caught telling a flat out lie (told several times). HRC backs off her statement - only when video evidence is produced to confirm that what she said was untrue. At that time, instead of making a heartfelt apology - the Clinton camp uses the "excuse" that she is tired. (Of course Bill Clinton went so far as to tell more "lies" to cover up the original "lie".)

And then more dirt about the other candidate gets thrown out there in order to change the news cycle.

Obama represents a change for the better. Clinton - is more of the same old politics....

I also have great respect for President Carter. Recently, I saw a wonderful documentary about him which revealed just how dedicated and principled he is.

While I don't agree with him 100% of the time, I never question his motives.

It is unfortunate that the Bush administration has shown so little respect for President Carter.

"Obama (1) stated a "bitter truth""

Warren thinks anyone that won't vote for Obama a gun loving bigots too.

"are"

"I'm sure Keith Olbermann will have a special comment on Monday night to explain how Hillary used mind-control to trap Obama."

ROFL. True.

I'm going to do some campaign work. It will be nice to get away from a lot of the nonsense being posted today.

Warren, you don't get it. Hamas was desperate because they had no money. The people were starving and weary. Had Egypt and others been tighter with their embargoes and Iran was not allowed to funnel in money, the Palestinians would have rejected Hamas. Encouragment and money/arms keeps this struggle going. Forcing Hamas is what Abbas was working towards. If Abbas can't negotiate with Hamas and get them to moderate their views, NO ONE CAN.

Hamas HAS been offered money and recognition if they accept the State of Israel. Carter isn't going to make them change their minds nor did Carter convince Sadat either. The Israelis convinced Sadat and Carter was the bridge. Obama gives hope to the terrorists in so far as they see that he will talk and retreat. That is, AQ and Iran are telling Hamas to pick up the fight so, the US is retreating and Hamas fires more rockets. Two were just caught trying to poison Israeli food supplies. So while Egypt says enough and refuses to let Hamas tear down the border fence again, Carter goes to talk to Hamas in Syria. What will he say that hasn't been said? He simply gives a signal that the Obama administration does not really mean what it says and will talk to Hamas. This is a blow to Obama and underscores his Zbig/Malley connection. With Pro-Hamas articles in Trinity newsletters and the issue of Auchi and Khalidi just warming up for Republican attack, this mess points to the reason Obama will be in worse shape next month than he is today.

Whoever said the indies would abandon Obama in the general: I do not think so. Not if he keeps being the voice of cool sanity and reason and wanting to bring Americans together to solve the problems that face us.

He gets that problems do not automatically have a purely Democratic or Republican solution. After seeing what Clinton has unloaded on Obama, do you think the Republicans are going to want to work with her?

I hope some animal or fowl does not lose its life this week because Hillary has got to prove that she's down with hunters.

(PS: I have attempted to shoot skeet. They were unmenaced by my efforts.

Shooting is a great sport; hunting is great too if done humanely -- shoot well enough to kill, not wound -- and the ducks or deer or whatever are eaten. Culling the herd -- to prevent deer overpopulation, etc. -- is fine too. Killing just to kill? That does not seem very sportsmanlike.)

Sorry Max - even before this campaign really got going - one of my main reasons for supporting Obama is that I think he is more electable than Hillary Clinton in this election.

(Plus when the issue of Iraq comes up - Obama can talk about how we need to change direction - instead of attempting to explain away his vote to authorize war. I watched McCain tear Romeny apart on "flip-flopping" on Iraq and lack of authenticity. I think he would run the same campaign against Hillary and would have a very good chance of defeating her. Hillary can't beat McCain on 'experience" and with Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton - McCain can become the candidate of "change." A very dangerous proposition.)

And the results of the primaries and the way in which both Obama and Clinton have campaigned - have only reinforced that belief.

An Obama vs. McCain contest is set up along very clear lines. "Change" vs. "experience".

Change wins this year.

Maxtrue:

You miss the point because you are conflating issues. I said I think it is good if Carter meets with Hamas and tries to educate them about how ridiculous and counter-productive some of their positions are.

I DID NOT say he should go to that meeting with a big bag of money to convince them they should listen. Feel free to attack people that give Hamas the support you describe - but that is quite different than someone going over to that country to have a meeting.

Wendy, don't correct your typos...you're making me look worse....

The Democratic party has lots of Jewish Leftists that rather toe the NeoLIberal line. Wasn't Marx Jewish and even Hitler had some Jewish blood. As I a Jew myself, I can confirm that being Jewish in itself does not make one immune from delusion, self-loathing, stupidiy or ignorance. Zinn is Jewish and I hardly think even he thinks his history is not biased.

“These are the kinds of attitudes that have created a gulf between Democrats and lots of small-town and heartland voters that we've been working very, very hard to bridge…I saw Senator Obama's comments as a step backward to building those kinds of bridges.”

Obama = Change? Nope...just more of the same...same ole out of touch with the average voter Democrats that have lost the last 2 elections. You can dress John Kerry up in a hunting outfit and send him out into the reeds...but nobody is buying it. They're not going to buy it from Obama now either and mostly because their is video and audio evidence of how he really feels about them.

Another pro-Obama preacher, Rev. Eric Lee, launches anti-Jewish attack

"Reverend Eric Lee, the keynote speaker of a Los Angeles event held by Kappa Alpha Psi -- the national African-American fraternity -- on April 4, the fortieth anniversary of Martin Luther King's assassination -- launched a vicious attack on Jews."

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/AntiSemi/12781.htm

"Obama (1) stated a "bitter truth""

Warren thinks anyone that won't vote for Obama a gun loving bigots too."

Thanks Wendy. But I can speak for myself. And please don't put your words in my mouth.

Max...I can't help it

"there" DAMN

you did "speak/type" for yourself. You said he stated the truth...I don't think I put words in your mouth...you said you agreed with him. The words came from your finger tips. Don't get mad because someone called you on it.

Yes Warren Carter will educate Hamas,,,

Good luck with that one

Now if Carter had said long ago, even he wouldn't talk to Hamas, maybe that would send them a powerful signal. Perhaps Carter should go to Iran and educate their President that 9/11 really happened....LOL

And while he's in Syria, think Carter will decry the human rights abuses? Will he tell Assad to stop murdering people, screwing with Lebanon and being a safe haven for the worst terrorists?

I think not.

I conflated nothing Warren. I say your ante and raised you a buck.

Wish I could send you a peppermint, Warren.

Warren...if I worded my last couple of comments in a way that made you offended, I deeply regret that . . . But the underlying truth of what I said remains. . .

;-)

off to brunch an errands.

OK. Wendy - to be very specific. I said Obama's full statement - placed in the proper context - is true. I did not say I agree with your malicious spin on those words.

If fact, I admantly disagree with your spin - because it is an age old GOP attack against Dems. The notion that if you are "liberal" or "progressive" - you are somehow out of touch with "Amurica."

Well I think our politicians need to educate the "great unwashed" instead of catering to them to get elected (and then forgetting about them once in office).

Obama spoke the truth, and Clinton will use it to destroy him and the Democratic party.

But who cares? The Dems weren't doing anything to end the war, or give us health insurance, or anything else except trying to win the next election based on vague promises.

It is not about the "truth" or what Obama should have said - the use of "BITTER" and "CLING" have done serious damage to Obama with voters Dems need to win the GE. He can try to explain this away, it will not work - 527s have so much to use against him.

After four years with McCain as President, the "small-towners" will be selling their guns to buy food.

But they won't be bitter.

One characteristic Warren with NeoLiberal thinking as opposed to mainstream Liberals of the last decade is their equivalency game.

Liberals rejected Chomsky and rejected negotiating with terrorists. Obama never suggested negotiating with OBL, but there are far more psychpaths than OBL. In the NeoLIberal world view, morality is a relative quantity and that we should get over oursleves and understand that some cultures think it is okay to stone women adulters to death or call on the destruction of a recognized nation. THey reject Jeffersonian ideals and substitute a poor analogy of Einstiein. As Power claims, we can't win a victory on principle anymore, just negotiate the best deal offered. We must learn to live with repugnant ideas and re-write history giving credence that both sides in every conflict are more or less the same sinners.

This IS NOT what the greatest generation sacrificed for. So before you cast aside the old and make their blood the foundation of your Next Generation, I suggest you consider this gross fallacy. Morality is not a relativistic affair, nor is it one rooted in any literal interpretation of relious doctrine (yes, I'll cover both sides of the spectrum). Even taking a biological view of the gentically based altruism of cooperation, enforcement of rules is essential for increase cooperation. When we fail to punish bad behavior, cooperation is decresed. When we fail to stand up to violations of cooperative behavior, society is at risk.

NeoLiberals would rather lower the bar and decrease punsihment in a doomed effort to increase coopoeration. Without underlying rules of security and recognition, negotiation of punishmnet and reward fails. Read a bit of anthropology. Talking doesn't work when one side clearly goes beyond the rules that rational cooperation. The Soviets were far more rational than Islamists.

Had Carter called what happened in the Sudan genoicide maybe the world would have acted. This is why the Liberal line of JFK and Clinton rejects negotiating with terror and confusing benign Liberal hegemony with the NeoLiberal/Communist take that such order is US world domination. The only chance we can steer others towards Liberty and Freedom is a principled stand. Carter erodes this position by talking to people that are presently incapible of change partly because they anticipate a new US weakness that will present them the opportunity to achieve their psychopathic goals. NeoLiberalism substitutes healthy realism in defending the essential pre-conditions for negotiating for an idealism in which Liberal Democracy does not even stand front and center.

Someting to consider...

Nash: "After four years with McCain as President, the "small-towners" will be selling their guns to buy food. But they won't be bitter."
=========================

I'd say that's post of the day!

Enjoyed reading your posts today -- thanks and glad you had time to sit and stay for an extended spell.

"Yes Warren Carter will educate Hamas,,,

Good luck with that one."

Please Max - tell me what the other alternative is? According to the Neo-Cons - it seems to be extermination through force. That is a much taller order than attempting to use reason. (It is also the option with the most severe consequences if it doesn't work out as planned - see e.g., Iraq.)

Anyways, I will watch Carter later on TV and see what he has to say for himself. Last time I checked - "Maxtrue" was not Carter's official spokesperson.

Later on - I need to do some work....

"Had Carter called what happened in the Sudan genoicide maybe the world would have acted."

You mean like in Darfur or Rwanda? Ooops - I guess using different labels for things does not always change policy (even though it often helps).

We tell Hamas that they will continue to be isolated until they cange their behavior. We supply humanitarian aid to their people and prevent weapons from going into Gaza. That would be the sane approach and would send the people who voted in their terrorist government to reconsider. Voting by itself is not Democracy , and certainly not a valid reason to accept a terrorist government. That is what Abbas says, Israel says, Europe says etc.

To say that Hamas doesn't understand their options is absurd. They hope to break the international will and get credibility from people like Carter. He will supply as much positive results as he did in the Sudan. Perhaps he should go to Tibet or even have a good talk with Sadr.

btw, in the footage I saw - Hillary did not finish her shot of whiskey. She only took a sip.

As a drinker, I am offended...

Clinton in Scranton Hits Obama Super Hard on "Bitter" Remarks

Demands explanation from her opponent.

http://thepage.time.com/2008/04/13/clinton-in-scranton-hits-obama-super-hard-on-bitter-remarks/

Max:

You 2:18 post is sensible. However the only problem is trying to get humanitarian aid to the people when we have cut of ties with the government. That aid also needs to take the form of food and medical supplies - which is more difficult for the government to steal than money. Also - in order to prevent weapons from getting there - we must rely primarily on our allies to stop arms sales. But there is less we can do about our enemies selling them weapons - despite our admonitions not to.

(Except of course to increase the number of our "allies" and decrease the number of our "enemies"...We need to drain the swamp - instead of simply blowing it up and then having to deal with the aftermath.)

OR Dem said: "It is unfortunate that the Bush administration has shown so little respect for President Carter."

I understand your sentiment, OD, but why would you expect them to put President Carter above the US Constitution?

(which they also don't respect.)

"I hope some animal or fowl does not lose its life this week because Hillary has got to prove that she's down with hunters."

Oh, good God. Another drama, one more Sarah Bernhardt moment.

"But who cares? The Dems weren't doing anything to end the war, or give us health insurance, or anything else except trying to win the next election based on vague promises."

I think you really beieve this, Nash. I don't think you have any loyalties to the Democratic party. AND your continually blaming Hillary Clinton for what will be OBAMA's own fault in November just shows how blindly narrow minded his supporters really are. The "vague promises" I keep hearing are coming from your guy.

Patsi to Nash: " ... AND your continually blaming Hillary Clinton for what will be OBAMA's own fault in November just shows how blindly narrow minded his supporters really are."

Another one anticipates Obama will be Democratic nominee.

Wendy! and now Patsi. Happy Sunday to me.

Chef Sheila: if you are lurking out there -- happy packing to you!

dear Craig

This comment by Obama is the best thing that has happened in Hillary's Bunker since New Hampshire.

The Media need to play and replay this remark and ask "Does Obama hate small town America?"

The Media should ask whether like his wife and his Pastor he hates all white people.

This is the only chance Hillary has.

The Media should also figure out a way to use Obama's remark to let Hillary beat McCain.

I hope Obama gets impeached and loses his citizenship. We have no place in our politics for people who think that just because someone lost their livelihood and lifestyle forever, that they are bitter.

I've gotta' go. Hillary and I are hunting with the other machinist's and we usually stop for Boilermakers first.

Thanks, Craig! Chelsea in 2016!!!!

To give all of you a break from today's *fun*...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omIrLgQO9O0&feature=related

Thanks, Corey--I needed that!

Dog

you haven't been paying much attention.

Patsi has been saying that for at least a month.

Not speaking for Patsi but for me the frustration with Obama is how badly he has been screwing things up the last month and how stupidly damn near all of the Obama supporters have been reacting to it.
The titanic is sinking and the Obama supporters are telling me how pretty the paint is in their room. Even worse, are the ones that are reading me the promotional material and claiming the ship is unsinkable.

Jack

"Let us never negotiate out of fear. But let us never fear to negotiate."
-- John F. Kennedy

Flatus: we have a military that is the best in the world, although sorely overextended at present. Talking and negotiating are excellent tactics, backed up by a big stick.

One cannot win every battle militarily, as Mr. Bush is teaching the world with his ill considered and badly planned Iraq occupation.

Jack: do you really think that? And do you really think Hillary could win where Obama could not?

" Even worse, are the ones that are reading me the promotional material and claiming the ship is unsinkable."

Exactly, Jack. His mouth has now become his own worst enemy.

Aside from all the "bitterness" expressed here today, this is actually a pretty good discussion. I even liked Patsi's shots at me, which were right on target.

I wish they had a Starbucuks in this town so I could go there and hang around with all the other elitists. All we've got is a "Dunkin Donuts." The pickup-driving, deer-rifle-in-the-gunrack potato farmers and loggers all go there.

They're not bitter, but this is Maine. They accept the fact that the economy has been going downhill since demand for wooden ships began to decline after the Civil War. But that could turn around after the world runs out of oil.

Jack: If Obama is so bad, how come he's winning?

Dog, I'll agree with you. Bullies have to realize that you have the determination and willingness to go up against them today and tomorrow and tomorrow ad infinitum.

EEEWWWWW...that is a horrible pic of Chris Matthews...I can't believe he would approve that for the cover.

How Hillary people rationalize the fact that Obama is winning...

* the voters are naive

* caucuses are full of elitists

* small sates don't count

* "red" states don't count

* primaries where independents and Republicans get
to vote don't count

* the MSM loves Barak and hates Hill/Bill.

* Well, he's been winning up to now, but all that is going to change after the "bitter" comment. (But if it doesn't, we'll think up a reason why not.)

Did I miss anything?

I nominate Jack for comment of the day for his 3:17 comment.

As to Obama's "elitism", this article in the Agitator talks about his selection of Trinity as his church despite other ministers with whom he worked in Chicago's poorer areas advising that it was for "buppies" and would cause a disconnect in relations with local groups.

http://www.pickensdemocrats.org/info/TheAgitator_070319.htm

Corey,

Thanks for clip of the old folks. I think I'll go sing karaoke this week. Any idea where I can find a choreographer?

Oh yeah, and a portable oxygen tank?

Jack and Patsi: I am shocked, truly. We do not even have a nominee yet and you are already throwing in the towel on the general election.

Maybe you guys should get away from cable news and the internet; take a dog for a walk, cook or bake something delicious for yourself or to give away, or read good fiction or nonfiction solely for pleasure. And listen to some music that uplifts you and makes you happier.

I say this kindly. Was happy to "battle" you a bit over the "bitterness" kerfuffle, but do not want to see friends (and I mean that -- that's you too Patsi) surrendering to despair so soon.

Obama is trying to quit smoking. Voters who are also trying to quit smoking sympathize with Obama and vote for him because he's just like them?

I'm probably reaching on that one , Nash.

Ed , you have to be 70 to join that group. Unlike AARP where you only have to be 50. Good luck with the karaoke! You don't need a choreographer. Just make up some dance moves on your own. It's more fun that way.

I nominate Jack for comment of the day for his 3:17 comment.

I nominate Jack for comment of the day for his 3:17 comment.

I should run for President on an anti-gun and anti-smoking platform. I would ban assault weapons right away and have the FDA regulate tobacco. This would also eliminate the proverbial smoking gun as well. By the way , didn't John Kerry claim to be a hunter when he ran for President?

Wendy!: are you having the same trouble with Typekey? It's eaten about a third of my posts today; always copy them before posting, just in case.

sorry - treo malfunction

" how come he's winning?"

A Caucus system that reflects good mob control rather than democracy? Sen. Obama did it well. Sen. Clinton missed the opportunity due to overconfidence and poor campaign advice.

In the states that actually count votes, she wins and would continue to win in the general.

"Jamie enlighten us, how does one go about a picking a house of worship."

You pick the one that fits your life and beliefs? The Obamas had a choice of many possibilities. He was told it would be better to match his place of worship to his work. He chose to match it to his and his wife's upscale life style.

No problem with that, but it does reflect what he considers the more important aspects of his life.

jamie: You're rationalizing.

Corey,

I'd better just stand still. My kids tell me I dance like Bill Cosby, which is no compliment to me or Mr. Cosby.

How to pick a house of worship? For a lot of people it depends on what religion they are. I grew up going to a Lutheran church. When my Mom moved to Holland , she searched Holland for a Lutheran church. The one she goes to is part of the Lutheran Missouri synod , I believe. Which is what our church in Adrian was a part of. My sister got married to someone who was Catholic and converted to that religion shortly before she got married. When she moved back to Holland , they joined a Catholic church here. There are some churches here such as "Central Wesleyan" that are very popular. I went to a service at that church a few years ago. It was very "showy". Big video screens and a full band. It was just like being in the audience of one of those big churches on tv. I didn't like that at all. Another factor in choosing a place of worship is the minister. A good minister will help increase the number of worshippers who go to a church. A bad minister will drive people away. Although I am not Catholic , I will say that the priests I have met at my sister's churchs have all seemed like good men. Funny as well. They make church entertaining at times , which can be hard to do. Also , size matters. At a small church you may be asked to volunteer or help out a lot. Help with the service , special functions or help the church in other ways. In a big church , you could probably get away with just going to church on Sunday and not be asked to volunteer for anything at all. Basically go un-noticed. In the end , it's all a matter of personal preference.

Jamie: he's won in a lot of non-caucus states. Virginia, Maryland, Wisconsin, South Carolina all had primaries; others too, I'm sure.

You are selective and I think it's mean to call other Democratic voters a "mob."

Thanks for putting up the Ryan Lizza story. Looks like an interesting read.
==============

EdVB: have never seen Bill Cosby dance, but maybe you can do some footwork in honor of spring and give Craig some footage to use for his gardening project (he mentioned it yesterday, I think.)

Watch and learn , Ed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsWpvkLCvu4

Jack, you did miss a few things

Rezko. Auchi, Lee, Wright, Meeks, Zbig, Malley, Khalidi, Ayers, Moos, Meeks, McPeak, Rice, Power, Michele, Patrick, Davis

and the endorsements of Ted, Carter, Farrakhan, Jackson, Sharpton, Pelosi, Dascle, Durbin, Dean, Kerry, Fonda, Judas Richardson and others (let's be real that these people have or will endorse him)

the various comments, flip-flops, lies and behaviors exhibited by Obama

Now during the GE the picture these items paint will contrast sharply with any Obama pivot to center. This is all the Republicans have to do added to your first list.
And much of the picture is already drawn.

Obama should withdraw for personal reasons and rescue the Democrats from a defeat he has largely manufactured.

Re: choosing a church...

I suspect Obama's choice of church had much to do with being a politician. As a politician, would you choose a smaller, more intimate church, or one with a membership that totals more than 8,000. That's a lot of potential votes!

I know that sounds cynical, but I AM cynical about politicians. And...I will vote for whomever is the Democratic nominee for president in November.

dog,

"call other Democratic voters a "mob."

Possibly poor choice of word, but the caucus system rewards the campaign that can martial its forces and deliver its people to one place at one time. Having seen the Obama campaign at work first hand I can absolutely testify that they did a magnificent job not only of gathering and delivering but training their leaders in coralling and intimidation in order to sway undecideds.

I might not consider it Democratic, but it was very well done and well suited to the political system for the state.

btw, Clintonites. I would ask you to look at tomj's post whenever you start accusing Obama supporters of making irresponsible attacks that make your skin crawl...

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/04/obamas-bitter-voter-flap.html#comment-66682

Jack 3:17

Is that a Biblical reference?

"And Jesus said unto them, return to your villages and render unto NAFTA those things that are NAFTA's. Cling not to your swords and spears, for he that cuts another man's flesh, shall cut my flesh. And the people heard this, and they were not bitter, and they typed it into their Blackberries, so that those who were not present might learn from it also."

How Hillary people rationalize the fact that Obama is winning...

Posted by: nash

Nash, I am a Hillary supporter who thinks Obama is "winning" an may well be the nominee and given him full credit for his achievement. I also think he has many fine traits, namely his incomparable weakness of character and his ability to combine grace, arrogance and deceit. I have said on this blog a number of times that the nomination is HIS unless the spineless Machiavelli implodes.

toast

dog,

I notice you don't have a blue key next to your name. That is probably part of the reason you are having some trouble with your posts. Do you need a walk through to get one?

Nash!! Love it. Render unto NAFTA....

Also , at a big church , you could not go to a service or mass and people would not even know it. Miss a service at a small church and someone might say to you "I missed you last week. Where were you?" At a big church you could say "I was there. I was sitting in the back. You know , we get let out of the church first. That's probably why you didn't see me." It was comical at our church in Adrian. Our church was small. Nobody ever wanted to sit in the first 2 rows, especially the first row! Any family who arrived to church late had to sit in the front row. In the front row , the minister is right in front of you. You have to pay attention. LOL!

Max, while I was talking, you were writing. You did better than I.
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/04/obamas-bitter-voter-flap.html#comment-66716

Dog,

For at least one season the intro to The Cosby Show had him doing some funky steps, perhaps gyrations, that looked pretty similar to my own.

Corey's Watch & Learn clip was Senator Obama dancing with Ellen. I have to say the only edge Barack has on me and Cosby is that he's thinner.

Thanks Jamie. I think it's actually not reading the "Captcha" correctly -- maybe background is slightly too dark. Get a page that tells me I entered the text incorrectly but by then it's already eaten the post.

Have learned to copy the post just in case before submitting.

Some of the i's and j's are really hard to differentiate.

Jack:

(Quoting from your "post of the day" - an award given by one of the most persistent and well-trained snipers from the Clinton camp ; )

"for me the frustration with Obama is how badly he has been screwing things up the last month and how stupidly damn near all of the Obama supporters have been reacting to it."

Don't you think this may have something to the fact that he is under heavy fire from the Clinton Attack Machine - which is rolling out everything they've got in a last-ditch effort to get the nomination.

If Obama weathers this storm - and goes on to win the nomination - I am confident he will be able to deal with anything the GOP can dish out. (Especially since he will have the distinct advantage of being "in touch" with the Majority of Americans on Iraq, the economy, etc. Plus, there is almost nothing that I can see happening that would allow McCain to make a "credible" argument that he represents a bigger change from the Bush Administration than Senator Obama.)

I try Flatus, but I suspect you're the man with the expert knowledge. I did read a sobbering report at Military.com a few days ago about the suicide rates and the 50 billion in damaged hardward. It is not a nice picture. I am with you on the need for some quick and effective reform but not a reversal. I do appreciate France upping their Afghanistan for to above 3000. A friend tells me the time has come for a new alliance using Indian and other nations as G4 forces. I see Korea just elected a more pro-US president. We need our allies to understand the situation and its time for Russia and China to contribute more to peacekeeping forces. Wonder if they're willing to face the weapons they're selling to the adversaries they'll be facing.......

thanks

Maxtrue:

Did you ever read "The Selfish Gene" by Dawkins?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Selfish_Gene

Pretty interesting read...

Warren at 4:24 for post of the day.

Yes, this is a trial by fire and remains to be seen who actually gets burned.

Flatus would know to aim the flamethrower -- away.

Mrs. $109 million and former First Lady telling the voters that Obama is the "elite" in the race.

Some of those listeners might have a good supply of common sense.

dog

If you register with type key and get the little blue key, you don't have to deal with the Capcha. You are always logged in when you get here.

"Firefox"

Wasn't that a Clint Eastwood movie?

"This is all the Republicans have to do added to your first list. And much of the picture is already drawn."

Right-O Max!! The GOP won't even have to do their own research - they can just mine the pro-Clinton blogs to get all the oppo-research (and misinformation) their heart's desire....

Keep fighting the good fight. (or is it the Right fight?)

Dream on Warren. This ain't nothing yet. Watch what the Reagan Democrats do in Pennsylvania. I bet if you go back and poll the Indies that voted for Obama early on, 25% have reversed their position. And Obama isn't facing the ads coming yet. Visuals mean a lot. You're prediction is about as accurate as Hamas having a change of heart.

But I appreciate your willingness to debate and be civil.
From what I gather from Republican blogs, they are dying to face Obama now and are refraining from attacking him too much and unifying his Democratic support. They are refraining from attacking Hillary because they know MSM won't rally to her side.

How the DNC got themselves into to this is beyond belief, or rather a result of it...LOL

It started wih trying to attract new young voters and it will end in a huge failure to keep many of the ones they had.

Speaking of NAFTA , I work at a company where they sent all of our sun visors business to Mexico a few years ago. Talk about being angry. They had all these company banners up at work that said "People were the #1 reason for our company's success". These banners started getting ripped down. This wasn't easy , because they were hung up high on the walls. They started having security patrol our plant because of this. Then , they announced they were sending workers from Ramos , Mexico to our plant so people could teach them how to build visors. People were also angry about that. When these workers from Mexico arrived , they were all young workers. Age 18 to mid twenties. They often asked how old some people were at our plant. In Mexico , 30 is considered old to be working in a plant. Kids work to support their parents in Mexico. Young people work faster than people over 30 do. More production from them. They thought everybody working at our plant was old. We also sent people down to Mexico to teach them how to build visors down there. During all of this anger-filled time , our then plant manager had a talk with us. He told us that he understood our anger , but we also needed to realize that the only reason we were losing our jobs to Mexico was because the workers down in Mexico didn't have to get paid very much at all. They were getting our jobs , but they weren't getting paid jack squat. Also , another friend of mine went to Mexico to train someone to do her office job. The workers in Mexico didn't even realize they were being trained to take someone's job from here. They thought they were just learning how to do it. In the end , the quality of the visors dropped dramatically. They often sent the visors that were built in Mexico back to our plant so we could look them over and fix them if needed. Many automakers took their visors business away from us as well. I'm not even sure if we still make visors anymore. In the end , it is a company's decision whether to move to Mexico or not. Some companies just open up plants down south here in America , because they make less than we do in Michigan.

Dog, makes me thing of Lawton Chile's circular firing squad.

How does he feel about the American worker? Mr. Obama respects them enough to make sure they're paid (in full an on time) for the work they do.

He respects them enough to tell them the truth and talk about solutions, without giving a wink and nod in the other direction.

He respects them enough not to play games promising one thing to the American worker and having those close to him take money to promote the exact opposite. (Given the Clinton bank account, words aren't exactly 'cheap', are they?)

Two major P A papers endorsed Sen. Obama, today. They're not worried about his comments because they realize that Clinton and McCain are making more empty promises. You might make others feel as if they can identify with you if you suddenly start talking about hunting in your youth (at your 'summer house' - very working class) and if you starting sucking back hard liquor. That's not enough to show that you'll work to the benefit of the American worker when your past shows that you're proudly big business as is the spouse you want others to think of as the 'co-president'.

The American people are choosing truth over politics. Sen. Obama will be just fine. He won't be 'dodging' anything this fall.

Denni, Bitter, but only until November!

dog:

I disagree. I think most of my posts responding to attacks from the Clinton campaign are rather mundane...

I nominate Flatus @ 3:31 p.m.

Yes Warren I read it many years ago. I have some problems with Hawkins and if you do a Scholar Google search on altruistic cooperation, you'll see why. He does make some good points and is a bright guy. Selfisness plays at both the cellular level and the macro-level, but do you know that cells commit suicide? When they sense that something is amiss they kill themselves rrather than threaten the whole.

I guess we've been debating that point here in political terms...LOL

""And Jesus said unto them, return to your villages and render unto NAFTA those things that are NAFTA's."

ROFL....however, you might want to remember that a helluva lot of economists championed NAFTA as a huge growth opportunity for America. (Not to mention it would make Mexico a better place so all those pesky Mezicans would stay out of our fair cities.)

Corey's narrative at 4:39 on a company embracing short-term considerations (lowering the cost of production) over longterm (maintaining and even enhancing quality) is very instructive.

Max:

"From what I gather from Republican blogs, they are dying to face Obama now and are refraining from attacking him too much and unifying his Democratic support. They are refraining from attacking Hillary because they know MSM won't rally to her side."

I actually speak to real live people from the GOP. (Not just their avatars....). And the ones that I have talked to - say that they are confident they can beat HRC. They will crush her in the South, paint her as a "flip-flopper" on Iraq and will sling a ton of mud about the "distractions" created by the Clintons in the "nineties" - as well as their performance in the Democratic primary.

They don't have a clue how they would run against Obama - except by trotting out the same failed arguments that the Clintons have tried for the last several months.

But the one bright spot they see - is that if Clinton can do all their dirty work for them - they have a real chance. In other words, Hillary is the villain - and she is the one that makes the case as to why Obama should not be President - and then McCain steps in as the nice guy - who is above the fray of all this nonsense over on the Democratic side. In other words - he is the "adult" that focuses on the "real issues". Not that my friends - is a formidable threat....

So again -

Memo to Clinton and her Campaign and her Supporters:

Please tell us why Hillary Clinton should be President instead of spending all your energy telling us why Obama should not be.

Thanks,
America

"Right-O Max!! The GOP won't even have to do their own research - they can just mine the pro-Clinton blogs to get all the oppo-research (and misinformation) their heart's desire...."

And that comment comes from a part of the group that regularly calls Hillary Clinton a liar married to a sleazy womanizer who shouldn't have been allowed to earn any money even after orchestrating eight great years in the country. Oops....I forgot....Obama says he was a worthless president. I forgot!

Amen, Warren.

Patsi: you are so bitter it makes me sad for you.

Huffingtonpost: Hillary claims to be a duck hunter.

"I remember many autumn days from my youth, when I would borrow my grandfather's old 30-30 and go up into the hills to hunt ducks. You have to go for the heart, lungs, or shoulder, or they could charge you. Ducks are the ones with the tusks, right?"
-Hillary (2nd amendment) Clinton

u mean not unlike the wink and nod Obama's top adviser gave to Canada re: Nafta ;-)

"Hey don't worry about all that campaign rhetoric about Nafta...my boss Obama is just pandering to the bitter, typical white, gun loving bigots in the mid-west...he doesn't really mean it."

ROFL

You spend a lot of time on that floor, don't you, Wendy!?

Here's Bill Clinton in 1991 saying pretty much the same thing that Obama said. (Gee. It's a good thing Bill didn't get the nomination or the GOP would have destroyed him using this issue.)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/13/bill-clinton-flashback-al_n_96433.html

Also , concerning our company's decision to send our visor's production to Mexico. When our company was founded by Ed Prince the very first product he made and sold was a sun visor. Sun visors built the company into what it later became. Then all of a sudden , Johnson Controls sends the visor making business to Mexico. Now we no longer make them at all?

I support Hillary (for what it's worth) because I like her and I think she can win in November........I dont support Barack because though I like him ok I think he will lose in November.......I will vote straight democratic ticket in November from dog catcher to president but it wont matter one whit....probably not even a fraction of an undersized iota.....because SC will go for McCain......(lots of bitter typical white peoples in SC.)

I dont want to make anything or another happen.....I just want a clear picture of what IS happening.

You Obama supporters keep me in stitches with your ridiculousness...I can't help LOL @ you.

What is Obama's plan for the 2nd amendment and guns? Is he going to outlaw guns? Each time we get a new President I have hope he will ban assault weapons etc...and also take on the tobacco companies. All I ever hear is how powerful the NRA and tobacco companies are in Washington. Threaten either of these 2 and you risk losing votes.

Wendy: Here's more to make you LOL...

A Chinese firm that has donated to Bill Clinton's charity is accused of collaborating with the government in its crackdown on Tibetan activists.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-clintonchina13apr13,0,499290.story

Warren, another way to look at Hawkins beyond South Park

-the complexity of human cooperation and our awareness that modulates cooperation goes a bit beyond the molecular relationship of gene to human organism. Some bridge this gap with the notion of memetic evolution. Indeed some might argue that Obama's rhetoric plays on memes. In addition, something emerges beyond the genotype in our self-aware complexity as living organisms called conscience. This mental reality utilizes an conscious awareness not accessible to the gene and is therefore only conditionally guided by it as we interact in novel ways with the environment. And it is not EVERY gene that benefits from human cooperation but rather the fitness of the reproductive units expressed over time in sustaining the survial of humanity. On one hand Hawkins lays a foundation for understanding emergent altruisitic cooperation in humans, but on another level the model seems too narrow to explain the complexities and conscious pathways of human evolution and behavior. . Sorry, not enough bandwidth here to elaborate...

Warren, I explained the difference between Hillary and Obama in terms of New Democrat v NeoLiberal. Why do you keep asking? See my post above on benign Liberal hegemony.

She is better on Healtcare and the economy.

I don't know what GOP your're talking to, but Republican Blogs that I have read have far more issues with Obama. And why not? He is the more Liberal candidate. She can hold the Blue and tip some Red. Obama will ge flattened.

Nevermind , I read up on Obama. He is anti-gun and favors a ban on all semi-automatic weapons. He does believe that only rural people should own guns because rural people hunt and it takes emergency responders longer to get to their houses. I also read this gem from the "Say Anything Blog"

Before commenting, please recite:

Grant me the serenity to ignore the trolls,
the courage to debate with honest opponents,
and the wisdom to know the difference.

Naturally , RJ Reynolds is against it. LOL!

“God, grant me the Senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference”

Theme song for “The Beverly HillBillaries”

“Come and listen to my story ‘bout a girl named Hill,
a poor mountaineer seeking stuff that she could kill.”

“And then one day she was shootin’ at a duck,
but instead she hit Obama, which was just a piece of luck.”

“Accident, that is. Friendly Fire. (Maybe snipers).”

Sturg , I never liked a person I didn't meet.

Speaking of elitists , Yankees vs. Red Sox on ESPN tonight.

Oh and at halftime of the Spurs vs. Lakers game, the Spurs coach was asked to compare his team's first half performance to a bottle of wine since he is a wine afficianado. He said they were a Zinfindal. I guess their second half performance would be a bottle of MD 20/20. LOL!

you mean the same Bill Clinton charity that has saved million of lives by providing HIV/AIDS drugs to people in Africa...yea Nash...that's really hilarious.

Maxtrue

"I don't know what GOP your're talking to, but Republican Blogs that I have read have far more issues with Obama. And why not?"

Good point - "why not" - since Obama is the likely nominee of the Democratic party.

(Plus, with Hillary's negatives - they can just let the liberal media do their dirty work when it comes to her.)

Wendy: No, I meant the filthy rich Bill Clinton that has the blood of Tibetian dissidents on his hands. Bill LOVES the Chinese. They gave him money when he was running for President. Remember?

Maxtrue:

Looking to genes may provide some interesting dinner table conversation for some latte drinking college professors dining at the top of an ivory tower. But I think people do what they are told.

The complication is that people are told many different things - many of which are in conflict with one another. And people only do what they are told to do when the believe what they are being told.

Now what makes people believe in some things and not in others....that is a question with 10,000 answers.

(but many of those answers are based on the princple that perception is - or at least impacts - reality.)

Lest we forget, Chinese $ that helped elect Bill Clinton.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A05E1DA1F30F93BA25756C0A96E958260

Speaking of guns , my friend who is a police officer took me and another friend to a firing range about 10 years ago. He let us take turns firing his 9mm handgun at the paper targets at the range. I was nervous at first , because I'd never fired a gun before. He told me just to remember to keep my thumb out of the way when I pulled the trigger so I didn't slice my thumb when the gun fired. That day was probably the most serious I've ever been when being with my friends. It was scary to realize that I was holding something in my hand that could kill another human being. I also didn't like the empty hot shells discharging backwards and hitting me in my shoulder. In the end , I was glad I overcame my fear and went that day , but I would never own a gun.

Will Rogers Philosophy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVGZSvIJLNs

Warren, I won't beat this dead horse, but the negatives that Obama has piled up is astonishing. Just take Jack's list and ad it to mine. Obama has already lost the general if Democrats are foolish enough to give him the nomination. He is by far the more Liberal candidate with quite a resume of associations. He is not a flip-flopper? Hah ha. Just go to Obamawtf and try to refute the litany of problems. From "I'll call the first responders' to bitter, he has constantly flubbed and fibbed and deflected.

He won't get into the WH. The best thing Democrats can do is to nominate Hillary. You might be right and they don't do that and then guess what? You'll have four years complaining about McCain. Middle America won't trust Obama. Republicans will go out and vote just to punish Wright. And I mean trust Obama's inclinations built on more than forty years of associations and sparse record. His wife will annoy the crap out of people on the general trail.

But I won't upset your Sunday fantasy. I heard all the Kool Aid drinkers pick the Patriots when I calmly predicted the Giants. Toughness not style wins in the end.

Patsi: if you cannot see kindness for what it is and want to see passive agressiveness behind any gesture of humanity, go for it. But that is not the spirit in which the comment was made. And your not accepting it does not mean my comment was not made in friendship and out of concern.

So what if we own the Clintons?

The Saudis own the Bushs.

(They got first choice.)

-The Chinese
(Hey, you know. This torch makes a good club.)

Warren , you should be more worried about this:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AnkuLpSzNPkFtM1tjDiXztM5nYcB?slug=ap-yankees-cursefoiled&prov=ap&type=lgns

Looking to genes may provide some interesting dinner table conversation for some latte drinking college professors dining at the top of an ivory tower. But I think people do what they are told.

Now I understand the thought process behind your posts. What a smart analysis of human cooperation. Why didn't I see that before. I must just be one of those dumb Hillary supporters that barely can form complete sentences. Now if you are really interested in cooperation and respect science as much as blind faith which your Obamaitits reflects, here is a decent starting point.

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/102/19/7047

I'ver posted it before, but i guess you didn't notice.

And Warren, even monkeys don't do what they are told to when they don't think its fair.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v425/n6955/abs/nature01963.html

Maybe you can think about that over your next latte with Obama supporters.....

A mesage from Obama and his supporters to Hillary?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CySYwZNH65I

Just thought you would find this final comment funny Warren as Abbas and Olmert meet to discuss meeting with Bush coming up soon....

"An explosion in a Gaza house killed three people and wounded seven, Palestinian officials said. Residents said it was caused by explosives that went off prematurely.

Later Sunday, a Palestinian was wounded in an Israeli airstrike on a house in Gaza City, Palestinians and the Israeli military said.

Last week, militants attacked the Israeli border terminal that pipes the only fuel that reaches Gaza, killing two workers. Israel immediately shut down the terminal and launched raids that have killed 16 people since, including at least six civilians.

Palestinians have warned of a looming fuel shortage, and the director of the territory's only power plant has said it would have to be shut down this week because its fuel would run out.

Israeli officials said Sunday that the fuel terminal was closed to allow authorities to investigate how the gunmen penetrated the compound. Zeev Boim, an Israeli Cabinet minister, said it would be reopened within days and called the complaints from Hamas about a fuel crisis "absurd."

"What audacity to carry out an attack on the fuel depot ... and then talk about a humanitarian crisis," Boim said.

Also Sunday, Hamas said it will hold its own commemoration of the 60th anniversary of "al-Naqba," Arabic for "the catastrophe," as Palestinians call the creation of the state of Israel. Abbas' government in the West Bank is planning a separate ceremony.

The date is marked in Israel according to the Hebrew calendar and falls this year on May 8.

About 700,000 Palestinians fled or were driven from their homes during the two-year war that followed Israel's creation. Palestinians insist the refugees and their descendants, about 4 million people, have the right to return to their original homes in Israel.

© 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more about our Privacy Policy

Again:

"What audacity to carry out an attack on the fuel depot ... and then talk about a humanitarian crisis," Boim said."

Yes, what audacity. Let's see if Carter can convince them to be less audacious and more :cooperative" seeing that they do not do what the world has told them to do. Perhaps a good topic while sipping a Latte Monday morning........

"PA Small Town and Rural Leaders Reject Clinton and McCain Attacks"

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/caitlinharvey/gGBpNz/commentary

Corey

Here is what they really want to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QQOkDbbte4

Jack

I have not seen so much spin from the BHO supporters as today. He left his judgement in the gutter once again.. Spin on boys, he needs it.

Julie

That is a Pro-Obama site , right?

Obama in a 2004 interview with Charlie Rose:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFmV6j6ULEc

The commenters on the video are as divided as we are here.

Mitch Albom of the Detroit Free Press. His column today is about the War in Iraq.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080413/COL01/804130631&GID=EPGhiJhAl08BNHtNSAxkheEtDTxRY5brTTQKIcwp3wU%3D

Hah! Corey that is hysterical.

(Only in New York would they spend thousands of dollars to get the goat of some Bosox fan...)

(pun intended)

And it looks as if that fan's hex was working more on Ortiz that it had been on the Yankees. I am hoping to get a victory tonight. Taking two out of three (in Fenway and without Jeter) would be a major success.

Here is some video of Obama at the SF fundraiser event. As Mark Halperin frames this from Time, "is this Obama's macaca moment?"

For all you Obama diehards, let me interpret: Obama is basically saying that white voters do not believe his message because he is black.

While I am sure all of you who support him will nod your heads in support of his assertion, you can better believe that this clip will not play well with blue collar voters.

These middle class voters , more than likely, will take his words as saying that Obama thinks that they are racists. Ouch!

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Video_from_San_Francisco.html

Hillary on CNN now.

She didn't slam Al Gore. Get outside and get some fresh air in your lungs..

Run Al , Run!

Max:

"This Week" had on Jimmy Carter and Stephen Hadley (NSA).

It was a good show an it demonstrated precisely why we may BOTH be right.

(Ever heard of "good cop bad cop" ; )

(Patsi - no jokes that Max and I may both be "right"...)

Here is some video of Obama at the SF fundraiser event. As Mark Halperin frames this from Time, "is this Obama's macaca moment?"

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Video_from_San_Francisco.html

For all you Obama diehards, let me interpret: Obama is basically saying that white voters do not believe his message because he is black.

While I am sure all of you who support him will nod your heads in support of his assertion, you can better believe that this clip will not play well with blue collar voters.

These middle class voters , more than likely, will take his words as saying that Obama thinks that they are racists. Ouch!

Warren,

Based on the start he's had, once they saw it was an Ortiz jersey they should have left it there.

He's not in the lineup tonight, but I'm still worried that he'll show up late in the game and do some damage.

Hillary and McCain calling Obama an out of touch elitists is like two pots calling the black guy a kettle.

Several days ago Mr. Obama led Hillary in the Rasmussen poll by 11 points.

This afternoon Hillary leads Obama by 1 point..

The roller coaster continues..

I did telephoning most of the afternoon for Hillary.
Some very nice people from very young to not very young were also calling. Very pleasant experience.
People receiving the calls were overwhelmingly nice.

Hillary's standing ovation was nice too !!

I was watching "Clerks" when Obama got introduced.

Goodnight..Think I'lltake a nice walk on the waterfront..

Warren,

I understand the good cop, bad cop logic, but I think there is a much better way without sending the wrong signals.

First, you think Hamas is dumb enough to fall for that routine in which the good cop essentially gets the crook to go along with what the bad cop wants?

Second, Carter isn't there to negotiate. Hamas knows this. It's more another photo op for Hamas to try and get some PR. What do we get?

Third in good cop/bad cop there isn't the opposing party to deal with making the good cop piss them off. F

Fourth, Hamas isn't about to renounce their charter because of Carter who has nothing to offer unless he's connected to either Bush, Hillary or Obama. His only leverage would be if Hamas thinks he's Obama's guy. Is he?

Fitfh, a real good cop would deal with someone other than the terrorist ringleader and offer substantial reward to calling a truce. The good cop can offer a plan of increasing qpq. By even going to Syria, Carter gives validation for Syria allowing these creeps safe haven.

Sixth, Abbas was once the good cop, What makes you think if one wing of Hamas offer some BS truce, then another won't start up? Egyot has more leverage. In fact, there are many groups that would still resist. The last time Hamas called a truce, they had been pounded into doing so.

So I think the analogy is questionable and NSA certainly isn't representing the administration or even Obama, by saying H supports the good cop/bad cop idea. Did he? Again, in terms of terrorism, would it be a good idea to play that game with OBL? And what did this game bring so far with Syria or Iran? A much better good cop would be Saudi Arabia, Jordan or even Syria. Russia tried to play good cop from the start and got nowhere. Carter is simply the face of what some think an Obama administration will bring.

I will try and see the program or get the transcript. If I am right, we will see shortly after Carter returns. The damage however is already being done in Israel and could have negative impact. Something you haven't mentioned.

Obama, ""She is running around talking about how this is an insult to sportsmen, how she values the Second Amendment. She's talking like she's Annie Oakley," Obama said, invoking the famed female sharpshooter immortalized in the musical "Anne Get Your Gun."

Hillary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stF2mXucm_w

why did Hillary go first. She won the coin flip. I don't understand that move?

he's in his comfort zone. See if he is the same on Wednesday during the debate.

what does Hillary have up her sleeve that is going to released sometime after the debate

"(Patsi - no jokes that Max and I may both be "right"...)"

No, Warren....I'm starting to think that Max's politics are a little too tricky to figure out.

Hillary said she likes being around people who make her "uncomfortable." So perhaps there will be less complaining if Obama decides to not bow out of the race and just continue to win. (Even if it makes Hill a bit uncomfy....)

A-Rod is no Jeter...

In 20 yrs he never heard the pastor say anything bad except those few sound bites. Come on who is he kidding.

It's kind of appropriate that Obama is taking part tonight at a place called "Messiah College". LOL!

Patsi - you have "outed him"!!!

Maxtrue is really Richard Nixon...

(j/k Max - or whoever you are....)

In one speech everything is forgiven

Hillary should stop "showing off" and making these awkward remarks to demonstrate that she knows everyone in the room.

We get it Hillary... You are famous.

If Obama becomes President , guns will be banned. Hillary and Cheney will have to use slingshots!

is Obama getting more air time here. It's past 9:30. I thought each got 45 minutes.

what does Hillary have up her sleeve that is going to released sometime after the debate

Posted by: vadaryl Author Profile Page | April 13, 2008 9:19 PM

She's going to divorce Bill.

the debate should be interesting.

But the Yankees are losing. Pitching change and it's only the 3rd inning.

Thanks Bill,

Firm Tied To Clinton Foundation Assisting China's Tibet Crackdown

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-clintonchina13apr13,0,499290.story

*Corey Pictures Mike Greenberg talking about Chad Pennington*

m

What?! Hillary thinks God is a man??!!

What kind of feminist is she? (or isn't she...)

(sorry folks - I am on a bit of a tape delay over here...)

"White women begin to turn away from Hillary Clinton"

Clinton Slipping Among PA White Women

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/33411.html

Cambell has nice legs.

(and a cool name)

...and a Republican husband, Warren.

She's (Campbell, that is) married to Dan Senor.

The Mariners took two out of three from the LA Angels this weekend! (But let us not speak of today's game....)

Thanks HW. I don't get down with encouraging women to be unfaithful.

(even though I may be guilty of a little coveting of my neighbors' wives ; )

And yes - he is still my neighbor even if he is a Republican

"Howdy neighbor"

*warren - wearing an argyle sweater - switches from sneakers to house shoes*

(although I don't think there are too many GOP where I live...)

painter...

What is the purpose of your single letter posts? They are annoying, but perhaps that is your purpose?

Response from Clinton Spokesman Phil Singer

"For months, Barack Obama and his campaign have relentlessly attacked Hillary Clinton’s character and integrity by using Republican talking points from the 1990s. The shame is his.

Sen. Clinton does know better — she knows better than to condescend and talk down to voters like Senator Obama did. Senator Obama’s outburst won’t change the fact that he has embraced his characterization of the millions of Americans who live in small towns."

http://thepage.time.com/response-from-clinton-spokesman-phil-singer-3/

Well, Warren...

I personally approve of your coveting Campbell more than I approve of your coveting Norah. Norah's laugh is annoying. But that's strictly personal taste, I realize. You just go ahead and covet whomever pleases you... (j/k) I just woke up from a late afternoon nap, and I'm feeling a bit silly....

No way! Dan Senor came off a bit repugnant last week on MTP.

(At least Norah's husband seems like a halfway decent guy)

(Hell what do I know. Dan must be doing something right to score a babe like Cambell...)

Doing something right? Well...he's probably rich. He's certainly connected enough! He was spokesperson for Paul Bremer, the ruin of our early days in Iraq...after Mission Accomplished, of course!

If that is Obama's view of the small town U.S. population, what is his view of the urban populations? They are struggling for employment and they own guns, go to church: are they clinging, bitter and bigots?
-----
Actually a funny side note: My mother a staunch Republican thinks, " Obama just says what we think ! " She kind of likes him, that in of itself should alert a siren to the country.

"For months, Barack Obama and his campaign have relentlessly attacked Hillary Clinton’s character and integrity by using Republican talking points from the 1990s. The shame is his."

G-Man,
Shame on you! Since I signed -up months ago, you have been attacking Obama here with links from Republican and Clinton campaign talking points along with links from far-right wing fringe groups.

" score a babe " ? ?

"compassion forum".....what the was the focus of forum?

I turn it off to watch my son's slide show from when he live in Paraguay.

Was McCain included?

Rezdog--------------------

Just doing my part to get the truth out about Obama. MSM is covering for him - it is my duty as an "un-brainwashed" citizen.

Maybe he thought that those hours would be best spent sleeping.....since he would not be a headline unless he screwed up.

...or perhaps he realized the futility of looking for the few remaining compassionate conservatives....

Obama gaffe undermines Dem outreach

"But the Illinois senator’s controversial remarks about “bitter” small-town Pennsylvanians who “cling” to religion and other cultural stances out of economic despair — comments immediately characterized by New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and McCain as condescending — have suddenly reintroduced an unwelcome issue, undermining the progress made by concerted Democratic Party outreach to religious voters and reinvigorating criticism that the effort to woo religious voters is more rhetoric than substance."

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9570.html

Either way he most likely made the right choice.... ?

was it interesting or the sos?

Obama really shines in this type of forum. It is an actual conversation.

(Debates are built for confrontation and often are just plain silly. Save such silly and hyper-technical debates to the lawyers - and let the politicians have a frank and open conversation about the best ideas for this Country and the World.)

And Kudos to both Democrats for handling such delicate topics in a very intelligent fashion. And to McCain - BOOOOOOOOO!!!

COMMENT TO WENDY:

Hi! I checked-out of Craig's blog earlier this Sunday morning and am only now reading comments from some of the folks here. I often wondered if
anyone was reading my ramblings. Thanks so much for acknowledging me,
Wendy. I'm impressed with most of the level of discourse on this site. I guess Craig draws a more literate, well-mannered crowd than some of the political blogs I've read. People get really hateful at Salon. com, for instance, Joan Walsh's blogs. It's creepy. Hello, too, to others who welcomed me. I like reading what Wendy, Maxtrue, Gordo and Milquetoast write and the witty debates between bloggers at Craig's Internet Cafe.

HW - I agree Norah's laugh can get annoying - but it is also infectious.

UB...

I'm just catching the compassion discussion now on rerun. If interested, try CNN. So far, I'm not terribly impressed, but I've only heard them ask HRC for examples of God's presence throughout her life.

Warren...Infectious? Okay...as long as it's not contgious!

Dang it!

contagious

Thanks HW, I'm in a poker tourney right now or I would watch it. : )

"Hey, Obama boys: Back off, already!" is the title of a very insightful
article posted Sunday on Salon.com by Rebecca Traister. It points out
the overt sexism toward Hillary Clinton not just obvious in the main stream
press but growing among educated, intellectually curious men across the
country. Now, even young women are beginning to recoil from the seething
rage many men, young and old, are showing toward Mrs. Clinton.

This is not just a side note.

"Actually a funny side note: My mother a staunch Republican thinks, " Obama just says what we think ! " She kind of likes him, that in of itself should alert a siren to the country."

It is alerting a siren in the GOP. They are very good at keeping their cool. (It is of course made easier when you have a cold heart....j/k).

But they are very distressed about what is happening with Obama. They notice the record turnouts, the record fund raising - and I am sure they are painfully aware of how many people left the GOP in PA to vote Obama. (And the GOP base has never been thrilled with McCain).

THIS should be a story that the DNC plays up (instead of their lame attacks on McCain that could end up doing them more harm than good).

They should make it a hot topic to encourage people in states with closed primaries in the remaining contests to register as a Democrat. Think of the number of Republicans and Indys you can add to the Democratic party. That would lead to a President, a Cabinet, a Congress, and a Supreme Court - that we could all be a little bit happier with.

(And with the current approval ratings for all of the aforementioned - they is plenty of room to grow...)

Prof Marcia...glad you're here. You're a welcome voice!

Giambi!!

Prof. M can you send us a link to the Salon article?

Yes, Warren I'm Jewish. I suggest you read my response to you that left two links about altruistic cooperation. I hope they help. Even a Monkey would rejcet being told by MSM that Obama aplogized but was right....hhmmm then why apologize? I poersonally thought Obama stuttered, searched for bogus answers and is as devout a Christian, I am a friggin Martian. We all know why he joined trinity and you don't dedicate a book after "just my Pastor"......eh?

Prof. Marcia, thanks....

Wendy, you have mail.....

Rez...Republicans are packing Remingtons and Dems single shots with Obama leading the pack. I think I know how that turns out, don't you?

Gordo, keep diggin. Guess the bombshell first and Craig will buy you a big surprise, or I'll buy you a six pack.

The rest....good night.

High5@Heather

Let's Go Yankees!!

Hey Marcia. Forgive my late welcome (manners are not my specialty....)

"I like reading what Wendy, Maxtrue, Gordo and Milquetoast write and the witty debates between bloggers at Craig's Internet Cafe."

Let me guess...you support Obama?

Well Max - it is nice to see you watched the "compassionate forum" with such an open mind...

Yeah Warren - she agrees with the old hard core republican thinking, get off you ass and get to work, whether you are a white hillbilly or black thug, that's just what Obama needs to go after.

That is exactly what Obama's problem is. Staunch republicans may like his elitist comments , but they would never ever vote for a democrat... NEVER in a million years....seriously

prof marcia (11:25 post): you are selling some really old soap there.

"Now, even young women are beginning to recoil from the seething rage many men, young and old, are showing toward Mrs. Clinton."

Turgid prose, that.

I would suggest waiting until Patsi, Wendy! or Jamie show up and then you all can have a whackfest on the topic.

Borrrring to the rest of us by now.

Please do not attempt to stir up any "seething rage" on this site tonight. We have suffered through plenty of it this primary season.

"she agrees with the old hard core republican thinking, get off you ass and get to work, whether you are a white hillbilly or black thug,"

She sounds like a smart lady.

She live through the depression, they are a cold hearted bunch, who do not have a lot of compassion for whining. College educated two careers and still working.

UB:

How do you explain all the Republican voters that switched parties to vote for Obama in PA?

And I have also seen and heard anecdotal evidence of this happening. Remember - that a lot of folks in the GOP are not crazy about McCain, think W was an ass, and are not pleased with the way Iraq or the economy is being handled by the current administration. And McCain vows to continue these policies. That leaves a big opening for Obama into Republican swingers and a big majority of Independents.

And don't forget - Obama vs. McCain - and the youth will "Rock the Vote"!!

(I know I have heard some people on this blog express some faith in us whipper-snappers - even if most still think we are a bit green ; )

Burrito: you might be right re staunch Republicans, although the thinking ones might have noticed things aren't going that hot for us, domestically or internationally at present.

But I hear evidence for your point many mornings listening to C-Span's Washington Journal. Breathless callers on the GOP line who clearly see no difference between Satan and the Democrat party (aka Satan's minions, I guess).

Warren's post about the GOP watching Obama's fundraising and numbers at events and rallies with trepidation -- that is much more believable than "Hillary would be harder to beat."

I LOVE that Hillary took the occasion of the "Compassion Forum" to blast Obama again for elitism. WWJD, girl. I'm not sure Obama mentioned her (maybe in passing) during his 40 minutes.

Prof. Marcia...I hope you won't let Dog tell you what comments you can and can't post. Seems a few Obamaniacs around here think they can police the blog and tell people what they can and can't start discussions about. I believe unless the blog master tells you to stop, you can post whatever you'd like and start a discussion about whatever you'd like. The Obamaniacs can scroll by if they don't want to participate.

;-)

I don't know warren, I have never seen a primary like this before. Actually it seems pretty messed up to me, and we have not even gotten to the worst of it yet.

I think it shows the weakness of the democrats in general. They have an uncanny way of just losing all the time.

The problem with the "youth" not you , I think you are older then the college vote...they never show up. They register, and are either away or just plain forget....I think that the bloom will be off the rose by November. (unless something dramatic happens)

One last comment because I really must go....

Warren I did watch it with an open mind. Obama did say some sensible things as did Hillary. He used it however to deflect from the bitter remark, but even worse than some of Obama's spin: the questions were soft balls. I expected more from the Messiah School of Public Affairs...LOL No one asked really hard questions about Wright, Peaks, Moss. Maybe some one should have read a poem by Frank Davis and ask Obama if he remembered it. I wonder if I wrote the title whether Craig would banish me for associating Jesus with the N-word. No tough questions about the anti-Jewish associations. This was pandering to Obama from a crowd that now wants to protect the environment and end poverty. Total soft ball stuff which let Obama spin his story. Again how from age 6 -10 informed Obama about the world and foreign policy. He didn't go to the Holy land on his college trip. He went to Pakaistan.

Obama is a devout Christian? Then he went to Church regularly and never heard Wright speak? He just said days earlier and quite literally that some working class are bitter and cling to religion. That is a view of a devout Christian? How strange are these poorly chosen words for some one so elegant a speaker. I watched him search for words, carefully, like how he tried to link faith to global warming. He almost couldn't do it...LOL He is much better when he makes things up ahead of time and uses a prompter. It was painful at times. And yes, he delivered the new NeoLIberal line which needs to include the religious in order to win elections. He was much more comfortable in SF. Anyway, my thoughts. Sorry Warren, plastic.

Dog...actually she didn't want to discuss it and was pushed by to answer more...so she did and then said she was really there to discuss her own beliefs and faith.

When discussing the same topic at the beginning...Obomie talked about her as well...in defending himself...funny how he's now adopted Rendell, Carvile, Nutter and Clinton talking points on the issue...quite interesting indeed.

Other than that...I don't think either them mentioned the other.

And this small town voter in FL got it right

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw_8L-pdb-4

What Wendy! said is correct. People can and do discuss whatever they want. To very tiresome length.

Just warning that you will be plowing a furrow that's nearing China by now.

Warren -But I do think that your passion for your candidate is commendable.

I am just getting too burned out on the whole thing. It is all such a waste of time, while people starve and die, we are contemplating whether he said she said this or that or the other thing.

I guess I just want to see something accomplished, and I guess that means I will have to start with myself. Look into something where I can help, somewhere other then to pour my money into these campaigns.....that is my new task.

Peace to you all ~

UB

"I have never seen a primary like this before."

It is just because we all care about this general election much more than we have in recent years. I think a lot of people are having a similar experience to what is reflected on this blog. Plus - with both Clinton and Obama - you have a ton of loyal supporters that identify personally with the candidate - as opposed to just picking a person based on a slate of policies.

But the excitement about this year is also driven by the growing understanding that if we don't get to work quick - our window is closing to right the ship after W steered us off course.

*warren throws a bone to W*

(the guy did have to sail through some hurricanes).

*the crowd steals the bone and orders Bush out of the blog and back to TX where he belongs*

Warren's right about the window of opportunity closing. I have never seen such a crucial election in my life.

Was a little girl during 1968; remember people being shell-shocked that year. Don't remember the fall election at all.

I don't remember ever living through times when people were surrendering the family pet. On a large scale.

Max:

"Again how from age 6 -10 informed Obama about the world and foreign policy."

Some countries have had rulers that were children. And other countries have elected so-called "career politicians" that act like children. These countries have little electronic boxes were they watch such politicians rant and carry on when they don't get their way. And unfortunately - in recent times - the children - who are charged with discplining themselves - have decided that they no longer need to pay attention to the rules (i.e., the Constituion).

unlikely_burrito:

If you are looking for some more likely GOP votes that could go to Obama - take a look at how many votes Ron Paul was getting in the Republican primaries.

Yea...at least she didn't call them bitter, typical white, gun loving bigots...all though the picture of Kerry in the reeds always made me laugh.

Finally Max - the proper forum for all the silly questions you posed is the upcoming debate. Tonight was all about talking about some important issues. (I thought it was actually somewhat deep - which is a rarity in moden politics.)

(And don't think Bosnia, Bill's gaffe, conflicts of interest re: Columbia incl. Penn being fired, and how someone who has made $109 M in this century alone can call someone an elitist with a straight face - won't come up ; )

Although it will be hyped as a spirited debate where the moderators main goal will be to encourage the candidates to take one another's head off - I hope that both Obama and Clinton take some cues from tonight's forum - which I expect will be well-received.

I would like to see a debate more along the lines of LA when they joined forces to attack the GOP.

(As much as the media and the crazed supporters love to see the attacks and parries (sp) - Middle America thinks it is a bunch of nonsense.)

Anyways, it is time for me to unplug myself from the computer and plug myself into the television.

Hasta luego peeps.

"May the force be with you"

Hey Wendy, thanks for pointing out that I can post any topic on Craig's site.
Don't worry. I don't intimidate easily and so far I don't feel bullied at all.
This election season most of us feel passionate about our political views so
energetic polemic discussions are exciting and expected. FUI-- how do I post a link to the article I mentioned "Hey, Obama Boys Back Off Already!" on Salon.com.
It's a really good argument which even Obama fans should read.
The thesis is simply that many women are becoming uncomfortable with
the level of sexism they are noticing surfacing in the campaign. The article
I think is written by a young woman Obama supporter and merely points out how even independents and Obama girls are starting to become creeped out
by the anti-women bashing they notice directed at Hillary Clinton. I think
the article would generate an important debate. I'd be interested in what men
think about the writer's points.

Hi, prof marcia...and welcome! I'm obviously not Wendy!, but I'll try to answer your question in case she doesn't see it for awhile. I believe you can simply copy and paste the url for the article you want to share. Hope you post it soon, as it sounds like something I'd like to read.

Prof Marcia,

I think this is it.

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2008/04/14/obama_supporters/

Good to see Boston prevail over the NYYs...now somebody throw the Detroit Tigers a lifeline...they're drowning! ... 2-10 and shut out 4 times already....

Dex,

I'll throw a lifeline to the Tigers, but not while you're dissing my Yanks.

I'm heading for bed. Have fun with the night owls.

THANKS EdVB!

prof Marcia,

Read the salon piece, but am concerned that is mainly a collection of anecdotes without much, if any, supporting data. Those kind of articles are not generally received very well around here. JMO

Dayum,

The bitter comments were all accross the news in the Netherlands. It is a shocker now... Watch for people to ask HRC to quit the race now. I think they know that if she wins by 15 or more, it will be dwonwards from there on for BO, and the DNC doesn´t want this long term battle. HRC will cling on if she wins PA hands down....

Watched a lil from the faith forum....Can someone please explain me Campbell Brown? Is he there to halleluja BO? It is getting rather laughable than annoying now with these anchors on TV :))

With all due respect, Rezdog, I strongly disagree with your opinion.
The article "Hey, Obama Boys, Back Off, Already" on Salon.com" is a collection of several specific examples of women who have felt increasingly defensive of Hillary Clinton because of remarks made by their colleagues or friends. Many of the women cited in the essay are Obama supporters, so these examples lend the article even more credibility.
Are you suggesting "those kind of articles" which contain a series of actual examples of real people's experiences are less valuable than one person's subjective views? Or even less important than a subjective journalist's spin?
I'm shocked.

Jason..Hillary is doing great..She continues to fight and Obama's infantile attack on her today, referring to her as" Annie Oakley", reveals his desperation.

You can also see that the usual suspects on this site are in their usual attack mode as they unknowlingly reveal their distress that their candidate has really stepped in it.

Survey usa which is the most accurate says Hillary 56-38 , can find nothing new, this was last week.
women have held steady for almost a month at 61-62 %

julie

Jason. At realclearpolitics there is a great article under the heading Obama Mocks Clinton..It is in the left hand column.

I'm not computer savvy enough to post it..

Hillary had made comments defending the rights of hunters and sportsmen to have guns and related her own hunting experiences..

Mr. Sanctimonious referred to her as Annie Oakley the sharpshooter character in the musical, Annie Get Your Gun.

If you can go to RCP..the article has more detail..

Obama is getting in deeper and deeper.

I almost have sympathy for the worshippers from the Church of Obama.

Jason,

OD ay not be on any longer. But essentially Hillary said she had shot a gun when younger - had went duck hunting. This was in response to Bo saying of people in small towns were bitter and turned to guns or religion.. Tonight he called her a regular Annie Oakley.
here is article
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/13/watch-obama-on-annie-oakl_n_96459.html

At election day in Illinois, they showed BO & Michelle and she had to show him what to do. She was practically leading him. And in one of the debates - he could not think, he just sat there. If it is not prepared like a teacher has availability too, he is lost.. No common sense. my m is sticking - common almost turned out coon.. :))
Julie

realclearpolitics.com

Sorry OD - thought you were gone.

Julie

Thanks Julie. I'm glad somebody can post a link

OD

Guess we are all that is left.. do you think the sign holding will get heavier after Pa.? Yours after NC isn't it? Is Oregon caucus or primary?

Jason must be reading. Sure wish our msm was as good as Netherlands. Ours smells..

julie

Our primary is May 20th. It only has Democrats voting in the Democratic primary.

We have a mail-in system..Ballots will be mailed to all voters the first week of May. People may mail them back to take them to drop off sites. It works very well with very large participation..

Hillary has opened an office here so I have been working there the past couple of days I still get a little sign holding each day. It is actually kind of fun. The vast majority of people are very nice.

Think I will go to bed soon. Have to drive to Southern Oregon for a few days of work..very pretty down there..

I have liked every person I've ever met from the Netherlands.

I remember now about the mail in vote.

Yes it is 2 am here, think I will try it also.

Drive carefully,

Good night,

Julie

good night

Breaking News

Carter and gore say if Hillary does not quit the race they will publicly endorse Obama. This is what was expected anyway after his big gaffe.. It is unconscionable that she quit before the primaries are over.. Little men trying to wield big sticks.

Julie

Am still here everyone. Am still here...
Read the article, and I must say...it is intense

Julie, is that true?
What did I tell you some posts ago? This is what will happen. It will alienate more of the voters and bring more division within DNC
In the end they will blame the GE loss all on HRC...

WTF, this is geting unbearable to watch. Wasn´t it Gore who said that this will play out in time? Who is Jimmy Carter? So they will endorse someone not of their beleifs, but because they want to derail another person? OMG

This is the exact case of panic. They know HRC is going ot win the most of the remaining contests, and that will bring on a problem for the SD´s....

LOL

No, I don´t think so. He is very passionate for his candidate. Can´t blame him though. Obviously, I think he is missing some key points in his defence of the Big O

Did anyone catch the latest Oprah numbers. It seems there is a link in the support for O by O and her slipping numbers.
Ellen, on the other hand, is gaining momentum and ratings....

PA > 15%

In the dutch press a lot has been made about HRC & Madonna. Both have been counted out many times and both are referred by US media as "has beens". Everywhere else in the world they continue to be admired...What in the world is happening in the US.... ?? LOL

Ellen was voted the favorite talk show host. She is a nice person.

"Hey, Obama boys: Back off, already!"

Good article, Prof Marcia -- Thanks for the tip. There's a groundswell among younger women who didn't think feminism was relevant in these "enlightened" times. They are definitely having to rethink.

I watched Jimmie Carter sunday morning and he said nothing like that about Hillary quitting the race......he said he will not endorse anyone until the convention and that no one should quit.

Something to think about today: April 14th , 1865....John Wilkes Boothe shoots Abraham Lincoln who later dies on April 15th , 1865.

I'm getting tired of this election. I'll just wait and see what Craig has to say about last night.

Corey......just another example of what happens when an actor writes his own material.........

KVjr.

Has the country really sunk to this level of ignorance, where when a candidate demonstrates intelligence, or makes uncomfortable, but ultimately correct statements about this country that he/she is labeled an "elitist"? This is all media hype. The pundits and (nasty) politicians love this word. It's short hand for talent, understanding, education, an ecumenical world view, cosmopolitan perspective, etc. I mean, are we really this violently anti-intellectual? If so, then the little project called representative democracy has truly failed. But then again, we did elect Bush to two terms. Don't you get the sense that there's a creeping notion, likely "out there" in the hinterlands, the places that Obama was talking about in San Francisco, that there is a concerted effort under way to make sure that anyone who is smarter than they are will pay come election time. Call it phobic, I don't know. Anyway, this is turning into a rant, but this whole critique of elitism is really problematic, and ultimately it registers as a vacuous buzzword for lazy pundits and thuggish politicians.

Craig,

What tells me this is a media frenzy about Obama's comment is that the candidates pushing the "elitist" meme are elitists. One made $109 million dollars and owns mansions in NY and DC. The other apparently has eight homes and a wealthy heiress wife. Last I checked, most Americans are lucky to own one home and make about $50-60,000 a year, if that.

I also doubt Obama is truly an elitist because of his work in the projects, his family history, and so on. What I do think is of interest with Obama is that he resists sound-bite summaries. If you read his whole answer to the question in SF, you see that Obama clearly is trying to wrestle down an answer in a way that accurately portrays the situation.

A lot of people in rural areas of this country are upset about politicians. That ranges from apathy to outright anger. I trust politicians willing to wrestle with the truth, willing to take risks to answer questions.

Finally, as for down ballot impact, Obama has already helped 2 candidates win elections, including Dennis Hastert's old seat. Clinton has helped who? To my knowledge, she has had zero impact on other down ballot candidates.

Even worse, on Friday we found out our President is the first president in modern history to authorize torture, in violation of international and US laws. And after years of insisting we do not torture. In plain English, our President on Friday admitted he lied on that score, repeatedly. Given that Obama did not say, "rural people are suckers who will vote for me," you would think the torture story would have swamped this particular media frenzy. It didn't. If you search Google News, you'll see only 2 US media outlets published a story while the international media covered the torture story much more widely.

So Craig I'd ask you to take a broader view of this particular issue as well as future frenzies, regardless of party. Thanks.