Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

It's amazing how many people have repeated, "McCain wants to keep us at war for 100 years." and no one in the media has stopped them and said, "That's not exactly how he said it."

If we haven't learned anything else from listening to Vice-President Cheney, it should be that these guys need to be called on this stuff before continued usage gives these lies currency.

Strike force? Huh???

Your appearance was too short this morning...they've got to give you enough time to fully develop your theme. Still good, but...

And, here's another smoking-gun re Administration's role in torture:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080402/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/torture_memo_17

www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUE-QmH-n4Q

No Craig, I disagree with you. Here is McCain's MTP interview.

He is talking about taking an occupation turning into our just being "friends" and Welcome in that country. Therefore being "Invited" to stay.

An Anerican presense in the middle east is a terrible idea! The real reason he wants to keep us there for even "100" years is the OIL and its value.

I agree with Barack Obama on his quoting 100 years. Its a dangerous slip for McCain and if Senator Clinton hasn't been talking about it....well She wants to keep John McCain in the race anyway.

If McCain and Clinton are the Race after the Primaries, SHE is going to attack McCain with the same arguement!

Here's Obama's Comments.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/01/obama-casts-race-between-_n_94545.html

Obama argued that McCain would merely be another four years of President Bush on economic and military policies. McCain has criticized Obama as being inexperienced on national security, and the Illinois senator answered back.

"Meanwhile Senator McCain has been saying I don't understand national security, but he's the one who wants to keep tens of thousands of United States troops in Iraq for as long as 100 years," Obama said.

The McCain and Obama camps have been feuding for days over remarks McCain recently made when he said the U.S. could end up having a long-term military presence in Iraq, similar to the more than 50-year presence of U.S. soldiers in Germany and South Korea.

"One hundred years in a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 may make sense to George Bush and John McCain but it is the wrong thing to do. It is not right for our national security. It is not right for our economy," Obama said to applause at a town hall

Well, Stinky's getting ready for her quarterly visit to her oncologist. Bet there're lots of people who've made those half-hour drives to those appointments. You know, the drives where you coo over the dogwoods and azaleas all the time thinking about something else.

She's getting first-class care by a top oncologist. And, we're able to afford it because, in the last months of his Administration, Pres Clinton signed into law the 'Tricare for Life (TFL)' provisions that gave military retirees the healthcare they were promised as inducements to career service.

Sheila will be able to tell you how future benefits were held out as the carrot for going career. Goodness knows, we enlisted people were paid as little as possible and were the ones on whose backs budgets were balanced.

Even right now, the Repug Administration is trying to force major degradations in the TFL program. Shame on them!

They tell the generals and admirals, that they have a choice--bullets for the people in combat, or medical care for long-over-the-hill retirees who are going to die anyhow.

Now, I fully expect that Stinky will get a good report this morning. And, that's largely due to the superb care she's received during her journey.

TFL should be the model for our universal healthcare program. It works.

Obama Wins Backing of 9/11 Commission Co-Chairman Lee Hamilton

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?sid=ag9nXSjQZIlA&pid=20601070

April 1 (Bloomberg) -- Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama has won the endorsement of one of his party's top foreign policy figures, Lee Hamilton, who hails from Indiana, home to one of the next crucial primary votes.

Hamilton, a former U.S. House member who co-chaired the commission that investigated the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and headed the House Committee on Foreign Affairs, said he was impressed by Obama's approach to national security and foreign policy.

``I read his national security and foreign policy speeches, and he comes across to me as pragmatic, visionary and tough,'' Hamilton said in an interview. ``He impresses me as a person who wants to use all the tools of presidential power.''

Second that Flatus and it probably will. Why change something that works and has been proven since Post WWII

But the situation in Iraq isn't exactly parallel to that of Germany or South Korea. We invaded Iraq, and so far, haven't won the war there. And in addition, Germany and South Korea have been much more open to western (read "American") presence. The Iraqis don't want us there now, much less for 100 years of occupation.

Well, of course it's primarily about the oil. But, sister sheila, I think you need to turn your wimple around the right way and see the light. Obama's penny isn't as shiney has it was once & by playing politics, he himself if the one dirtying it. I heard the McCain comment & he was talking about a long, term NATO-esque presence. (This morning's task: come up with a fun, new acronym for that one...or, we can all just jump into our hot tubs & watch our clothes inflate.)

ps - Is word verifier really necessary?

Hillary wants to keep McCain in the race , Sheila? Isn't it forgone that McCain is the Republican's candidate this election? If it's not McCain , then who's left?

Corey,

OK so I didn't have a cup of coffee.... lol I have one now.

Sister Blue, That's the whole point. Our economy is stageringly in crisis. Europe is speculating about another Great Depression....

Not only is another hundred years in a country that we Occupied wrong, its just plain continuing our ruination.

Okay. Just checking. LOL!

2nd Obama-linked pastor under fire for racist talk

" Sen Barack Obama has been linked to another controversial pastor, this time a declared spiritual adviser who has called white American mayors "slave masters," and referred to black preachers and politicians who "protect" the "white man" as "house n-ggers."

"We don't have slave masters, we got mayors," exclaimed James Meeks, an Illinois state senator and pastor of one of the largest churches in the state, in an August, 2006 sermon broadcast on a Chicago community television channel.

Aside from his senatorial duties, Meeks is an Illinois superdelegate pledged to Obama, and also presides over Salem Baptist Church, described as the largest church in Illinois with some 20,000 members. He has served as an executive vice president for Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/PUSH organization.

A recent Meeks endorsement of Obama is touted on the presidential candidate's campaign website."

(Yes, I know it is WND)

http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=59735

mornin' all.

Craig, I have to second Flatus' thought that your MoJo appearance was a good one, but as always, too short. It still bewilders me why MSNBC doesn't take more advantage of your thoughts - you of course know how most of us here feel about you as one of the few honest brokers in the punditocracy.

Sheila, McNumnuts' words about a U.S. presence in Iraq fro 100 years are plenty bad enough without resort to exaggerating what he said. And believe me, I do not support the republican candidate for president of the United States. I would just like to see an honest campaign run on the differences of the candidates on the issues. Both Barack and Hillary have exaggerated McCain's statements - probably because their handlers have fed the lines to them (I doubt they have a lot of time to chill and watch the tube to see what he actually said as they go from town to town and appearance to appearance).

Anyone read the CQ article about the MS HofR runoff races? It gives a fairly good idea about why we can't assume we Dems are going to continue the successes of '06 in this election without doing the hard work it takes for the candidates to win. I recommend you read it and think about those results for a bit before you comment on them.

http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=news-000002695189

Hi Sheila:

I just watched the McCain video you posted and what he says is exactly what Craig characterizes in his post today. He equated staying in Iraq with Japan and South Korea.

Hey, I'm one of those people that thinks we should mind our own business everywhere. I keep saying why can't we mind our own business like Canada does? A very smart friend of mine who is a PoliSci scholar pointed out (with more detail than I'm giving now) that the reason Canada can mind their own business is because we don't. The countries surrounding us benefit from our "world power" status.

OK...this is not a defense of John McCain or the Iraq war. Just a defense of Craig's observation that Obama (and Clinton) mis-characterized what he said because it makes for good political rhetoric in bashing the other side. I don't have a problem with it myself. It's just that, as Craig noted, Obama said he was above that.

Craig's right and Sheila's right. It was obvious to anyone but a moron that McCane was not talkng about a 100 year-long all out war, but keeping a presence in Iraq. The problem is that no matter what he or any other military-type thinks, it's not going to work. We will always be seen as the enemy. The attacks will continue. That billion dollar embassy is not just a joke, but a criminal joke. We can't possibly afford to stay.

What angers me most is that our national psyche is now of the opinion that this is all the Iraqis fault for "not standing up." Christ. We destroyed their country and our economy and somehow now it's all their fault.

Morning Pogo,

Well I think you need to reread Obama's comments....I read truth and I did not read embellishment. I provided a link to Obama's appearance in question too.

Maybe you will go back to my link and read Obama's remarks. They are as honest as can be. No exageration.

He doesn't want to stay in an occupied country as the occupiers for any longer than we have to.

Hillary Clinton doesn't either by the way....or is this the line in the sand? Does Hillary Clinton agree with McCain on this too?

I'll read later, time for my hair appointment.

Patsi:

Good post.

Mary-Kitt. No, Iraq isn't Germany or South Korea, but then Germany isn't South Korea, although our involvement in those wars certainly had their parallels. I seem to recall that we did invade Germany before we occcupied it, and we fought a border war in Korea with North Korea before we installed a force in South Korea to protect its sovereignty.

Germany is of course a western nation - one of the westernest, in fact - but we weren't invited, and we weren't attacked by Germany before we went to war with them (notwithstanding Belushi's confusion on that matter). In fact, I would argue that Iraq has more parallels to Germany than to South Korea. I only hope the Iraq debacle turns out like the German one, but if it does, Li'l Pogo will be driving an Iraqi car when he reaches middle age.

Thanks Patsi,

I agree with all your remarks too. now time for highlights... ;0)

http://www.cbs.com/latenight/lateshow/video_player/index/php/950272.phtml

Letterman's Monologue featuring John McCain.

Some good news on the missing dog I mentioned night before last, Pup is back safe and sound and thank you for all your good wishes and prayers there.

Good karma comes through again.

PS: dog is not mine, but a fellow C Lister's. Did not mention whom in event pup stayed gone for too long. But happy ending to this one.

Sheila, really. McCain said he'd leave tens of thousands of troops there for 100 years? I really don't think so - but I am always open to admitting I'm wrong if I am - but please provide a link to that text - I can't open streamers here.

"Here’s McCain’s full quote, in context, from back in January:

Questioner: President Bush has talked about our staying in Iraq for fifty years…
McCain: Maybe a hundred. Make it one hundred. We’ve been in South Korea, we’ve been in Japan for sixty years. We’ve been in South Korea for fifty years or so. That’d be fine with me as long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed. Then it’s fine with me. I would hope it would be fine with you if we maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world where Al Qaeda is training, recruiting, equipping and motivating people every single day."

From the Columbia Journalism Review article.

Iraq was certainly a wrong headed mistake that was badly executed to boot, and we are certainly bogged down there at present as a result. But McCain said what he said, not what Barack suggested.

And Patsi, exactly.

Dear Pogo:
LOL I Love it, that was a great line:-))

--Heather

Gordo,

We don't have slave masters, we got mayors," exclaimed James Meeks,

Without knowing what Reverend Meeks said next there's no way to know if he equated Mayors with slave masters or said the Mayors serve the people. The tone of the article, seems to indicate he took the harder line, but that quote alone says nothing.

All that notwithstanding it's about time we pay attention to the candidates' words and actions and stop getting excited about what their supporters say and do.

Hi all. A good LA Times piece today on one of al Qaeda's top terrorist operatives, with some good context on the overall state and strength of al Qaeda today.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-ubaida2apr02,0,2079101.story

(Heather, my Royals also won their opening game Monday against the mighty, muscled-up Tigers...but we can't tell Corey!)

As the Canadian in Residence at Trailmix... my theory about Canadians minding their own business is... climate.. we're still buried under snow in June, so there's little possibility of our getting in the middle of anything elsewhere.

And in the spirit of not getting in the middle of things, while you're all cheering about opening day baseball, we're stocking supplies (beer, chips, chicken wings) for the hockey playoffs. I'm sorry Dex, but Canadiens RULE! *waves pilfered hockey flag*

Hockey here tonight: Archie Campbell

http://www.jibjab.com/view/135897

people who are backing obama cant reason.....everything obama does everything he says cannot be critizised........you have to understand he is the PERFECT person.....dont blame him for supporters remarks but blame clinton for her supporters remarks....it goes on and on.......i just hope if he wins he dosnt screw this country up and cause the dems to go another 28 years with only one president

Tylenol

"my theory about Canadians minding their own business is... climate.. "

And here I thought it was because you were smarter than Americans.

oh..and if we were into world domination, then we'd be off to a great start!

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080330/women_curling_080330/20080330?hub=CTVNewsAt11

nooo jamie.. it's all about the snow!

screw the country up? tz, now that made me laugh.. how could it get more screwed up??

EdVB----------------------------

Wright, Meeks and others would be used against Obama in the GE with great effect. Actually, the Rev Wright story has not gotten much coverage - I am amazed at just how little. A few days ago, FNC listed the amount of time the broadcast and cable news (?) outlets have devoted to this. Except for FNC, the Rev's rants received zero to a few seconds of air play. Most people have not heard this stuff, unless they listen to right-wing radio. It is toxic. Dems who believe this would have little impact in the GE are just out of touch with mainstream America.

From Newsmax:

"Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign is using the controversy over Sen. Barack Obama's pastor to woo superdelegates, who are critical to her White House hopes.

In an interview with TalkingPointsMemo.com, Clinton adviser Harold Ickes admitted that he's raising the issue of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr. with superdelegates, suggesting that Obama's electability in a general election has been damaged by the uproar over Wright's shocking comments. Wright has blamed the U.S. government for the spread of HIV and repeatedly said “God damn America.”

“Superdelegates have to take into account the strengths and weakness of both candidates and decide who would make the strongest candidate against what will undoubtedly be ferocious Republican attacks,” Ickes told the Web site. “I’ve had superdelegates tell me that the Wright issue is a real issue for them,” Ickes said."

http://newsmax.com/insidecover/obama_clinton_wright/2008/04/01/84740.html

TY
thats my point exactly .....if he does screw it up worse thant it is now the dems are cooked for many many years.......remember a far left candidate has never won the presidency ....and he is far left ....the country is centrist as a whole ........thats why the far left didnt like bill because he governed from the center.....extreme left or extreme right isnt going to straighten out this country

Ed - what a concept - listen to the candidates' words instead of their supporters' spin of those words. I agree - we should try that.

ty - I was introduced to hockey in '71 by a couple of college buddies from Buffalo (really, we didn't have much hockey in AL back then) when the Canadiens beat the Blackhawks - and absolutely loved it. For us it was beer, chips, pizza and, well, you know. They were certainly the cream of the leage for about 3 decades, and were dominant in the 70s, but it's been pretty dry since then, eh? (I do have to admit I was a huge Derek Sanderson and Bobby Orr fan, though - apologies to Cournoyer, Lafleur and Lemaire.)

When I think of Hockey, I think of those 3 brothers in "SlapShot"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i_D6oQO6b8

http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/02/mccains-intolerance-for-dissenting-iraq-views/

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/party-crashers-by-digby-apparently-jay.html

The problem with misrepresenting McCain's views is it gives the media an excuse to defend him. Something most are already inclined to do. It's what happened with the NY Times article. The issue of his relationship to special interests is now off the table because of unreliable nature of the original story.

Gordo,

I agree with you that the Reverends and others will be used in the general election. I wish the electorate wouldn't respond to that nonsense, but they do. The way I see it, those who are inlfuenced by these stories and right-wing radio probably wouldn't even vote for Senator Obama if his halo and wings were actually visible.

Those same folks see Hillary's horns even though she has none. (At least, I don't think she does.)

This year's Pig Book - 17 billion

http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer?pagename=reports_pigbook2008

tz..and that was exactly my point.. there ISNT a way for the country to get more screwed up... a bag of SALT could do better..

pogo..71 was indeed a very good year.. and apologies to orr and sanderson, but Cournoyer, Lafleur and Lemaire, and Savard, and Robinson, and and and and.. (really helped to get a good hate on for the Bruins that lasted decades tho, pogo haha) we've got a great young goalie this year.. can't wait!

ty, re: your 9:25 post - PLEASE don't ask that kind of question. It may not go unanswered and we really don't want to know.

kc, as usual, you make a valid point.

Words matter.

The Official Kentucky Derby site is now up

http://www.kentuckyderby.com/2008/contenders

The horses currently listed in Derby trial stakes races.

On the right side are several analysts - just click on their name to pull down their picks

I'll start asking for your picks in two weeks.

The Official Kentucky Derby site is now up

http://www.kentuckyderby.com/2008/contenders

The horses currently listed in Derby trial stakes races.

On the right side are several analysts - just click on their name to pull down their picks

I'll start asking for your picks in two weeks.

They are only holding one race, no matter what this site may think when it hiccups ... too many julips I guess.

We've noted before that Obama's policy of not taking money from lobbyists is a bit of hair-splitting. It's true that he doesn't accept contributions from individuals who are registered to lobby the federal government. But he does take money from their spouses and from other individuals at firms where lobbyists work. And some of his bigger fundraisers were registered lobbyists until they signed on with the Obama campaign.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obamas_oil_spill.html
The campaign that will tell any lie use any distortion is the campaign that will do anything to win.
But they must also take responsiblity for the destruction caused by the lies.

Craig is right of course. We also certainly used military force in Germany and Korea taking far more losses than in Iraq. Here is the problem for Democrats. Back after 9/11 (and even before) many Democrats including Biden, Kerry and Clinton saw where Saddam was going. The interrogation by Piro and the secret recordings of Saddam's cabinet meetings explain how Saddam was going to restart his WMD programs and use the terrorist network to further his aims against Israel and the region. He was never fooled by the nuclear intentions of Iran.

So do people including Power, Lake and Zbig advocate a genocidal maniac like Saddam rebuild his weapons through sanctionless export of oil and advance his stated intentions against Israel and his neighbors? Should we ever wait until our armed forces face significant threats? I know Pats and Wendy seem to object to the idea of removing Saddam in the first place. I respect their views, but if we can't consider removing a dictator who tried to murder a President, claimed and once invaded territory of his neighbor, supported terrorists against Israel, used WMD on his own populations, did not prove he destroyed known WMD and invited the Russians in to defend against US Air Power (how do you think our stealth F-117 was the first downed air craft?), then aren't you advocated a no pre-emption policy? While I vigorously agree that Bush made a mess of pre-emption, many Democrats agreed with regime change in iraq and Clinton had Zinni draw up the plans. Many now say that should we ever get attacked, we'll just wipe out the attacker. But of course you have to know who the attackers is and our WMD forsensics may NEVER be that good. The Don Corleone theroy of retaliations just doesn't work unless the foe is more rational like the Soviets. Biden, Kerry, Clinton and even Obama pledged once that Iran should never get the bomb. Has the Democratic position changed into waiting for the shit to hit the wall?

It seems this is the dividing line between Democrats and Republicans and even between Clinton and Obama. OBL does not have the capacity to make WMD. Pakistan does, Iran does, Saddam did, Syria does and many Arab States want to get them. Democrats need to be a bit more realistic, unless they wish to wait until Quds helps FARC via Chavez, Syria and Iran manage to pull of their efforts. For years the Left said Gaddafi was not building WMD in those huge desert tunnels. He was.

The threats I mention are the world's problems. We need to work things out with the Russians and place some international muscle behind the threats I mentioned. Part of that push is the US having a big stick ready. From a centrist view, both the Republicans and Democrats go too far in their positions. The invasion of Iraq, while removing one threat, did not deal with the rise of another. Had Bush listened to others and Iraq transited to stability in a more graceful manner, would we even be having this discourse? The horrible mistake was not pre-emption, but the timing based on bad Intel and political considerations coupled with a bogus phase four plan. The alternative of doing nothing may very well been the disaster Biden predicted in 2002 when he thought with sanctions lifted Saddam would be on his way to the bomb by now.

Shall we invade Pakistan to find OBL? Shall we let the MUllahs get the bomb? Do we care, or will we just nuke others when we get hit?

As I said, Craig is right Shelia. Even Jon Stewart knows what would happen in Iraq if we just pulled out. This was a poorly executed mess, but the extremism we run from now, will be the extremism that follows us. The Taliban has just set their conditions for negotiating with the Gucci government of Pakistan -end relations with the US. That is their position in Afghanistan too. For all the blasts I've made on Zbig's performances, he clearly agrees with his mentor Huntington that there is a huge clash of civilizations going on. He might want to pit one extremist against the other, but they're not that stupid anymore. This retreat from an active role was never a core belief of Democrats. It was not Adams view or Jefferson and Whashington advocated isolation in his Farwell Speech so America had time build a military force and consolidate our holdings here before getting sucked into an international mess.

Certainly occupation and nursing Democracy is better than Obama's wild air strikes that rarely work without on the ground intelligence. While I share the end game with you all -a world at peace,, how we get there does involve traditional foreign policy and part of that was staying in Germany, Korea, Japan and Bosnia for decades. Our presense after WW2 kept the Soviets out of Greece, Iran, Turkey, South America and even Africa. If the majority see the Democrats advancing a starkly unReaganesque view of action and advocacy , then this favors McCain. Reform, reform, reform is a far better message. At the end of the day, what was really bad about removing Saddam was our pathetic planning of the post-Saddam reality, not removing a clear future threat. I do not want our troops facing the dangers later posed by a dictator or regimes armed to the teeth. Do you?

Just my morning thoughts...

Deal Lard:
I'll Root for your Royals except when they play the Yankees, I also like Phillies, Cubs too.
Okay now lets play ball lol.

Is Obama going out of his way to lose the Reagan Democrats...
--Hint to Obama deep six the twinkle toes pinky extended style of bowling and ummmmmmm Barack this is ummm well classified never mention you will get rid of the bowling alley in the White Hoiuse Reagan Democrats are you know taough guys the guys that wear construction helmets and baseball caps that say "KAT" in the front torn faded "dungerees" [they never call them jeans] construction boots steel toe... five o'clock shadow, have a beer out of a bottle and bite the cap off with the teeth. You know, the "Stone Cold Steve Austin" kind of crowd that when they see someone bowl a gutter ball they wanna open a can of "whoop butt" :-)) not your kind of people Barack

Not the pinky extended latte drinking perfectly manicured fingernailed levi docker or three piece brooks brothers crowd you're used to Barack

--Heather :-))

Interesting article about "low key" Howard Dean and how he isn't being the forceful leader the Dems need to clean up the mess they are in: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/us/politics/02dems.html?ref=politics

sorry for typos...
I added a little cooking sherry to the tomato sauce it has diminished my negligable typing skills
--Heather:-))

EdVB

Those same folks see Hillary's horns even though she has none. (At least, I don't think she does.)

Not as far as you know, right?

Like when Hillary said Obama wasn't a Muslim as far as she knew.

Hillary Clinton, 60 Minutes, and the Muslim question
by Eric Boehlert

Less than one second. That's how long it took Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton to answer, "Of course not," to Steve Kroft's question on 60 Minutes about whether she thought Sen. Barack Obama was a Muslim. You can time it yourself by watching the clip at YouTube.

Still, that didn't stop MSNBC's Chris Matthews from complaining (or anon p)
http://mediamatters.org/columns/200803110002

The trashing of Obama's bowling prowness is silly and I agree with K from last night. I'm not sure Bush would know to release the bowling ball from his hand when he rolled it. I heard he has a hard time riding a bike sometimes and we all know how expert Cheny is with a shot gun....LOL

Barak doesn't need to be so manly, he has his wife.

Okay, cheap shot, but she does irritate me so.

Let's have a bowl-off between Hillary, McCain and Obama. Winner takes all. No takers? Maybe a Decrapalon?

EdVB------------------------

The damage to Obama would come from the loss of swing-voters. Combine that with Hillary supporters who refuse to vote for Obama - he is in trouble. I've heard radio talk show hosts and callers so angry about Wright's rants that they can hardly speak. Most of you here probably have not heard long clips of the Rev - it is really, really shocking. During the Clinton years, I never heard such anger and hate from hosts and callers about the Clintons. By comparison, Hillary looks good to these people. Some have even said it is her patriotic duty to stay in the race and try to defeat Obama. Many have come to admire Hillary's toughness. Hard to believe, but some right - wingers say they would vote for Hillary over McCain.

kgc...

She did say as far as she knows. Post the whole piece. She could have just said no he is not. She did not have to add the qualifier later as far as I know. That would have ended it, however she chose to add the as far as I know qualifier.

Craig:

"If that’s Obama’s idea of new politics, it sure looks a lot like the old variety."

Gimme a break!! Clinton - and almost every other Democrat who discusses John McCain brings this up.

I agree it is a distortion - but hey - McCain used a poor choice of words and he is going to be hurt by it.

At this point, the Dems may be beating a dead horse - but to single out Obama for this - seems a bit outrageous....

Many have come to admire Hillary's toughness. Hard to believe, but some right - wingers say they would vote for Hillary over McCain.

that's ridiculous.

Heather

Just looked, my cap has "CAT" on the front. The one that I like and my wife doesn't is hunter camo with "Shaw" on the front. The thing I really like about both caps and other hats I have with the names of lumberyards on them was the price. They were free.

Jack

Posted by: anon-paranoid | April 2, 2008 10:27 AM

after she was asked the same questions si times
the whole thing is there
you should take a look before you spout baloney
what a load of crap

At this point, the Dems may be beating a dead horse - but to single out Obama for this - seems a bit outrageous....

He's the one who made the statement.

Yep, Gordo...I know some Repubs that would vote for Hillary over McCain. Meeks couple with Wright is a general election mess Obama handled badly and still does. There are other problems as well. Imagine if Independents who voted for Obama months ago, knew what they know now? Would the results be the same? One thing is for sure, this caucus thing, excluding Mi And Florida and the media spin has not simply let all the Democratic voters have their say. They will come November.......

And lets all play clips from Hagee, Robertson, Falwell and the rest of those hate mongers. We could even through in Swaggart, Jim Baker and the rest of all their ilk.

Yep, Gordo...I know some Repubs that would vote for Hillary over McCain. Meeks couple with Wright is a general election mess Obama handled badly and still does. There are other problems as well. Imagine if Independents who voted for Obama months ago, knew what they know now? Would the results be the same? One thing is for sure, this caucus thing, excluding Mi And Florida and the media spin has not simply let all the Democratic voters have their say. They will come November.......

On a recent conference call with reporters, Howard Wolfson, Clinton’s bulldog operative, mentioned four times in two minutes that John McCain “wants to be in Iraq for 100 years.”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9207.html

“Sen. McCain would gladly accept the torch and stay the course, keeping troops in Iraq for up to 100 years if necessary,” Clinton said. “That in a nutshell is the Bush-McCain Iraq policy – don’t learn from your mistakes, repeat them.”

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008/03/clinton_mccain_would_keep_troo.html

kgc...

She still added the qualifier. No matter how many times she was asked she could have just kept saying no he's not, she didn't.

And I did see the interview. He was looking for something to use over and over again and she gave it to him.

Obama
Lie and Liars defending the lies and then lying about the statements of others.

Sturgeone,

"right - wingers say they would vote for Hillary over McCain. That's rediculous"

Maybe even the right wingers are ready for tough diplomacy rather than drop bombs talk later.

Obama and supporters are whining about the way he is being represented in the media. I thought he was the candidate of suck it up and no complaining

Looks like a lot of whining to me WATB

Heather,

the hat is spelled CAT and advertises Caterpillar. Here is a link to show you what CAT does.

http://www.cat.com/cda/layout?m=8703&x=7

One of my wifes cousins is married to the western states sales manager. he does quite well thank you.

Yo soy un demócrata amarillo del perro.

Yo soy Hussein Horsedooty!

You know, I should have just googled first.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/germany-declares.htm

ET

German and Italy on the same day

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/11/newsid_3532000/3532401.stm

oh and I have never heard of anyone south of the Mason/Dixon line calling jeans anything other than jeans or the trademark name of the jeans. Like Levi's or Wranglers Dungarees Please

Yo soy un demócrata amarillo del perro.

Yo soy Hussein Horsedooty!

Looking to honor the forty-third President of the United States of America, George W. Bush, the recently formed Presidential Memorial Commission of San Francisco is looking to change the name of the Oceanside Wastewater Treatment Facility. It seems the group would like to rename the SF Zoo adjacent facility to the "George W Bush Sewage Plant."
http://sfist.com/2008/03/31/presidential_me_1.php

"She could have just said no he is not. "

Anon -- I heard that entire interview, and she immediately said he was NOT a Muslim. The interviewer kept on and on and on, and she unfortunately kept trying to answer. She should have just told him to STFU. But that is how interviewers "make news."

AP

That "As far as I know" is pure "gotcha" and should be slammed by anyone with a brain. The look she has says it all. It was pure "what do you want me to say other than No .... Is there something I don't know ... help me out here"

Anyone who says she meant to imply he was Muslim should be suspected of dirty tricks and instantly disbelieved no matter what else they say.

Hi Jamie... yah, 5 days after the attack on Pearl Harbor. I would guess this was because the USA decided to enter the war after Japan's assault on Pearl Harbor? I do agree that the USA was justified for it's entry into WWII. Of course what we were not justified for was the creation of the internment camps for Japanese-American citizens. If anyone is interested in reading what young Japanese-American men did to try and prove their patriotism, please read John Okada's novel "No-No Boy". It is such a great read. http://www.amazon.com/No-No-Boy-John-Okada/dp/0295955252

I found part of Germany's statement interesting. Were they saying that the USA declared war on them first and they did nothing to provoke it? Historians?

"Although Germany on her part has strictly adhered to the rules of international law in her relations with the United States during every period of the present war, the Government of the United States from initial violations of neutrality has finally proceeded to open acts of war against Germany. The Government of the United States has thereby virtually created a state of war.

The German Government, consequently, discontinues diplomatic relations with the United States of America and declares that under these circumstances brought about by President Roosevelt, Germany too, as from today, considers herself as being in a state of war with the United States of America.

Accept, Mr. Chargé d'Affaires, the expression of my high consideration.

December 11, 1941"

From: http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/germany-declares.htm

Sorry about the double post as though my posts aren't long enough...LOL

The Gallup Daily tracker tells a different story

Gallup Daily: Obama 49%, Clinton 45%

Today's numbers: Sen. Barack Obama leads Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton 49%-45% -- down from his 51%-43% lead yesterday and 52%-42% lead on Sunday. The latest numbers are based on Thursday-Monday surveys of 1,288 Democrats and "leaning" Democrats, and have margins of error of +/- 3 percentage points.

Gordo,

I'll admit I may be over-estimating the judgment of those swing voters, but I'm hopeful that they don't use Limbaugh and Hannity as their sole source of information. There's no doubt that Senator Obama will again have to address the Reverend Wright issue if he's the nominee, but there are ways to do that without denouncing everything done by a guy who's been his minister and pastor for twenty years.

On the other hand, if the Senator can't point to some redeeming qualities in Reverend Wright, perhaps he should lose some votes.

The issue of Supreme Court appointments will probably be the deciding factor in how I vote, but I've got to tell you, I would have loved to see an issues-based general election campaign between Senators Clinton and McCain. Call me naive, but I really believe there's mutual respect there, and I don't see that with Obama and McCain.

Tom from wikipedea:

"These actions(1) prompted the United States, United Kingdom, China, and other Western Allies to declare war on Japan. Italy, Germany, and the other members of the Tripartite Pact responded by declaring war on the United States."

1 Pearl harbor attack and the attacks in Phillipines and other asian attacks all launched on the same day.

Jack

The problem is, Max, the admin kept changing the reason they went in.. first it was WMD, then it was the demonic dictator, then it was regime change, then it was liberty and democracy, then it was to get McDonalds into Bhagdad, cmon, those guys never picked up a history book.. anyone, with the exception of Bill (not the funny one) Kristoll and his friends could have told 'em they'd be STUCK there for decades!

All you baseball fans. If you don't know about it, here is a place to keep track of all the games while they are in progress

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/scoreboard

The little diamonds actually show the runners as it happens.

"The little diamonds actually show the runners as it happens."

Cool

Jack

EdVB:

You are naive if you believe a general election campaign between Clinton and McCain would be about the issues.

Sorry - but between the Clinton attack machine and the right wing attack machine - the issues would take a back seat. And all of the stuff about Monica, impeachment, White Water, etc., which has really been a non-issue in the primary - would be all over the airwaves in a general election. (Sad but true since the media loves the gutter....).

From a discussion of the polls

"post speech bounce.....and numbers can change on a dime."

Obama has spent 10x as much spreading his oil company lies in Pa and NC.

An Obama McCain campaign won't be about issues because Obama has no issues. He just has rhetoric and not very accurate rhetoric at that.

Yes, Tom, Germany declared war on the US the same day - Dec. 11, 1941 - that the US declared war on Germany - which was 3 days after the US declared war on Japan, which in turn was the day after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. Those were the good old days when wars were actually declared by Congress.

ET

One of my relatives took over farming the land of a Japanese neighbor and returned the land to him following release from the camps. There were so many families abused for no crime other than being Japanese with horrible examples of prejudice. Here and there, friends tried to help wherever possible.

Great book and movie: Welcome to Manzanar

http://books.google.com/books?id=0nuR5MRVzaEC&dq=movies+about+japanese+internment&pg=PP1&ots=EzB8gr1Kdd&source=citation&sig=HPhzj4cafONMePsP5Q4bN-m917k&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS211US212&q=Movies+about+Japanese+Internment&sa=X&oi=print&ct=result&cd=1&cad=bottom-3results

Warren,

"all of the stuff about Monica, impeachment, White Water, etc"

Warren, It didn't work the first time, why would it work any better as old warmed over attacks.
lol

You need to come up with something better than that.

Jack

After beating John Edwards in Iowa on Thursday, Barack Obama has decided to join him -- repeatedly poaching his opponent's themes, language, and even jokes.

"We shouldn't just be respecting wealth in this country -- we should be respecting work," Obama told an overflow crowd in a high-school gym today.

Edwards's 2004 presidential campaign was centered around the idea that the Bush administration had launched a "war on work" through tax cuts that offer incentives for investment over labor. "Hard work should be valued in this country, so we're going to reward work, not just wealth," Edwards said in accepting his party’s vice-presidential nomination at the Democratic’ convention in Boston. In this campaign, he has sharpened his populist rhetoric, railing against greedy corporate CEOs who are waging war on working people and the middle class.

Since arriving in New Hampshire Friday, Obama has borrowed Edwards's favorite verb by bragging that he had "fought" as a community organizer and civil rights lawyer, and conceding that "insurance companies and drug companies will not give up their profits" -- which Edwards asserts repeatedly to ridicule Obama's talk of conciliation. Obama repeatedly invoked those interests, as well as "big oil and big insurance," common villains in Edwards speeches.
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/01/obama_borrows_f.html

I'd rather have the real deal then someone who speaks the words but has no idea what they mean.

Jack:

Listen - I am not saying whether it will work or not. I am just saying the right wing fanatics are going to be pounding that issue. And if Clinton got the nomination - it would be a distraction that she would have to deal with.

Just because it bores Democrats - does not mean it will magically go away...

And I sure as hell did not "come up with" that issue...

" then it was to get McDonalds into Bhagdad"

Ha! Good one Tylenol!

Wiki's comment is a little misleading, Jack - the UK had declared war on Germany more than 2 years before Pearl Harbor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war

We were a latecomer into the war.

How to Start Your Own Country in Four Easy Steps

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4217

A little fun with some real information.

Jack

Jack:

It seems you have mastered the Clinton strategy - dismiss any negative stories out-of-hand and move on to something else.

It can be very effective - as long as people allow you to get away with it.

(btw, I think Bosnia hurts because Clinton has a credibility issue with some voters.)

Sorry if someone posted this - haven't read all the comments.

But got to love Jon Stewart

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rhM-5t8qgc

EdVB-----------------------

The 527's would saturate the country with attack/smear ads against Obama. This Rev Wright stuff is potent. Combine the Rev rants with the correct words / phrases (focus group tested) and the ads would move swing-voters away from Obama---no doubt about it. This is psychological warfare - people don't even realize they are being manipulated!

GORDO:

I do love irony....

"people don't even realize they are being manipulated!"

FNC Hannity/Colmes show last night, Lanny Davis was on and said he still had a lot of questions about the Wright association.

Hannity said history was made last night - because he agreed with a democrat, Lanny Davis, about the Wright story. Hannity thinks the Wright story has hurt BO more than the polls show. In fact he does not believe in polls and thinks ones on this subject are skewered.

Julie

Julie

Wednesday, April 02, 2008

Just Another Outpost

by digby
Responding to Obama's frequent mocking of McCain's suggestion that U.S. troops might remain in Iraq for 100 years, the Republican nominee-in-waiting said the Illinois senator failed to understand that America has kept forces in Korea, Japan, Germany and Kuwait long after wars in each country ended.
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/

The only story still being bandied about is Obama bowling like a girl. (And his lies in the current television ads and his distortion of McCain's remarks)

Jack:

You don't think Bosnia had any impact on the poll numbers?

I think "legs" with the voters is a lot different that the pundits beating us over the head with an issue.

And Clinton has a credibility issue with most voters outside Hillaryland (i.e., Independents and Democrats that are not in the tank for Clinton). The GOP is a lost cause when it comes to Hillary.

Anyways, it was not the Obama campaign that built the narrative that the Clintons will say or do anything to get elected. It is something me and a lot of voters, pundits and lawmakers felt about the Clintons before this primary race even got started.

On the way home last night I happened to listen to 10 minutes (that's all I could stand, plus that's the time of my commute - convenient, no?) of Hannity talking about the issues the Repugs would raise against Obama if he is nominated. For the most part it is what we should all expect - they've all been mentioned here - Rezko, Wright, Ayers, etc.

What struck me though was that he said that he cannot understand why the Clinton campaign has not pulled these out and trashed Obama with them and that Obama better get used to defending those relationships because the GOP will be relentless in putting them out there until November - I imagine it will be through 527s for the most part.

Just some food for thought.

Julie:

"Hannity said history was made last night - because he agreed with a democrat, Lanny Davis, about the Wright story. Hannity thinks the Wright story has hurt BO more than the polls show. In fact he does not believe in polls and thinks ones on this subject are skewered."

Hey look - one of Clinton's biggest and most outspoken advocates has finally found someone to agree with him . . . Sean "freaking" Hannity.

Isn't this troubling to at least a few Clinton supporters?

How do you feel having Obama supporters agreeing with Dick Morris?

Some one is BSing:

And while I was truly torn for weeks about this decision, and seriously contemplated endorsing Sen. Clinton, I never told anyone, including President Clinton, that I would do so. Those who say I did are misinformed or worse.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wpdyn/content/article/2008/04/01/AR2008040100885_pf.html

Five times to my face (Richardson) said that he would never do that," a red-faced, finger-pointing Clinton erupted.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2008/04/02/BAVNVU2PJ.DTL&type=printable

On H&C last night, Pat Caddell said he believes there is a hidden anti-iObama vote. Has been picking this up while analyzing polling data.

KGC:

Hah!! The Clintons made Dick Morris what he is today! (and I wouldn't go so far as to say "and vice versa" - but I am sure Dick probably would...)

warren,

I assume you don't agree with them? Considering that the polls aside from national ones - which none of us think are worth the ink used to print them - are only active in about 6 states with upcoming primaries, I can't imagine how you couldn't. And yes, I think the same thiing applies to Hillary's Bosnia flub, and I suspect that Sean Freaking Hannity and Devid Freaking Axelrod would agree that the impact of the Bosnia flap on Hillary's campaign is not fully reflected in the polls as well.

Don't be stupid - Wright has hurt Obama and Bosnia has hurt Clinton - even the most casual of pundits and supporters of any candidate would agree on that.

The continual nyah-nyah is getting really tiresome.

kc, note that your question wasn't answered. Jesus H.

Warren & Gordo,

I wish I could argue with you, but you're probably right. I know the 527's would be out there, but the fact remains that I had higher hopes for an issues based campaign between HRC and JMcC than I do between McCain and Obama. That's not to knock either side's campaign staff. Again, it's only my opinion and it's about the mutual respect issue that I mentioned above.

Jack:

Just so you don't think I am making the stuff up:

http://halfempth.blogspot.com/2008/03/credibility-gap-widens-as-gallup-poll.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/20/opinion/main3955120.shtml?source=RSSattr=Opinion_3955120

(Figured I should back up my comments with some evidence so I don't lose my credibility on this blog....wait a mintute - I have none!! ; )

"And Clinton has a credibility issue with most voters outside Hillaryland "

Warren
Right there you did a worse lie than either the HRC campaign or the Obama campaign have done , and both have done plenty.
It is a big problem I have with a lot of your cheer leading, it puts you over there with Max. IMO

Jack

I don't care too much where you put me Jack.

But I do enjoy your posts...

Anyways, I am outta here for now. Keep on keepin on!!!

EdVB....
thanks for the chuckle on your assessment of the baseball standings from yesterday...... I don't pay much attention to the standings until about mid-May.....

have a new kitty...... her name is Paris.... and she has the cutest and sweetest face.... she's small.... but I'll fatten her up!.....

coming back from the ski trip I was treated to an awesome sight...... just east of Montreal.... Quebec is mainly flat farm land..... the Snow Geese were migrating northward..... saw hundreds of them in the fields and in flying formations in the sky..... what a gift from God!

oh yeah..... I guess I should stay on topic.....
Obama...... blah, blah, blah.....
Clinton...... blah, blah, blah.....

Here is more ammo for the "Poll War":

Clinton Ahead in Key Swing States

"New Quinnipiac polling results in three of the largest and most important swing states in the Electoral College finds that Sen. Hillary Clinton does better than Sen. Barack Obama against Sen. John McCain in a general election match up.

Said pollster Peter Brown: “When it comes to November, Sen. Hillary Clinton’s strength is a big edge over Sen. Barack Obama among white voters, who have not given a majority of their votes to a Democratic presidential nominee since Lyndon Johnson in 1964.”

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/04/02/clinton-ahead-in-key-swing-states/#more-2018

About a week or so ago I mentioned the Nixon Impeachment and Hillary's role in it. Well yesterday on the way home it was on Talk Radio and you better except that it will also be used against Hillary if she's the nominee in the General.

So Obama has Wright to deal with and Hillary has the Nixon Impeachment to deal with.

So both sides better get used to it.

yeah Dick Morris is a whore toe sucking scum bag. He may have had that trait all along even before he worked for the Clintons. I don't really care anymore.

Yo soy un demócrata amarillo del perro.

Yo soy Hussein Horsedooty!

Warren

The Gallup poll cited
http://www.gallup.com/poll/105097/Perceived-Honesty-Gap-Clinton-Versus-Obama-McCain.aspx
can not cover your statement
The Poll does demonstrate a problem for HRC and you should have been satified with it. But like the HRC in Bosnia and Obama /law professor claim ,you took what was a bit of truth in the poll then had to exagerate it.
It seems to be how people believe modern campaigning is attack, attack , attack.

Jack

Yesterday Gordo posted an article by Isreali-insider on Obama Muslin issue. I found the article to be quite believable. He said it was in the Isreali papers. Seems they would know more in that part of the world than we do. There did not seem to be much discussion on this.

4 names have been used. ? Soeleto, Barry Soeleto, Barry Obama and finally Barack Obama.

Article says he was a very devout muslim until he married Michelle. With the associations of questionable people and Arab connections. Why do I think he may still be muslim.. (Wolf in sheep's
clothing).

Which brings me to the question, what could we be letting ourselves in for with this quy?

Renee

I have a new kitty. His name is Wizard. Should we call the matchmaker or should I just keep his snip snip appointment?

Obak Borama's (that was intentional) to be a normal Joe by bowling & havin' a brew are just one more way to avoid having substance. The media made a big deal over it. Now they are making a big deal over the fact that too much has been made of it...when they were the ones who made the big deal about it. And all the while, it allows him to avoid real issues & any issues that WILL come up in the general (if the Dems are intent on losing in the fall & give him the nom) like those to whom he has ties.

Rasmussen Daily Tracking/National

Hillary 45%
Obama 44%

"yeah Dick Morris is a whore toe sucking scum bag. He may have had that trait all along even before he worked for the Clintons. I don't really care anymore."

But he is a winner, unlike the idiots Gore and Kerry hired.

Jack

Renee, the gesse are leaving their calling cards here as well. :-)

Julie

I'm sure it is just a reprint of this stupid email that has been completely debunked on Snopes, particularly since his stepfather's surname is misspelled which is the type of thing that happens when something gets passed around.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

Democratic Presidential Nomination

Wednesday, April 02, 2008
Advertisment
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Wednesday continues to show a tight race for the Democratic Presidential Nomination. Hillary Clinton attracts 45% of the vote while Barack Obama earns 44%

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

Are the news (?) channels reporting this?)

If the MSM stopped talking about bowling, old jokes about ponies and manure, muslim connections, rev Wright, Bosnia and other totally mindless spindrool, they might actually have to go to work for a living and find out what the candidates were proposing about issues important to the welfare of the U.S.

The next thing would be demands to double their six figure salaries for being forced to engage in gainful employment.

Gordo - probably not - Rasmussen isn't one of the polls affiliated with the news(?) channels. And a lot of folks question Rasmussen's sampling. I don't rely on his polls.

Julie

Please don't do this.

The Obama/muslim crap is not true, just because it is being promoted by some rightwing Jewish nutcases does not make it anymore true.
All of Max's posts on this topic are nut case conspiracy mongering and Gordo will post any nut case crap he finds in his stupid desire to promote HRC.

Jack

oh yeah..... I guess I should stay on topic.....
Obama...... blah, blah, blah.....
Clinton...... blah, blah, blah.....

Posted by: RebelliousRenee | April 2, 2008 12:28 PM

LOL, that's IT in a nutshell Renee .. ;-)

Ok could someone explain why everyone is "drinking the Kool-Aid ? I assume it has to do with Jonestown but the connotation with our discussions I am not following.

Tom

P.S. When I was a kid I LOVED that stuff !!!

P.S. thanks for the history lesson on WW II... Living in Europe, and realizing I am in a land once occupied by the Nazis, is quite heady. I visited the "executieoord" which is 5 kilometers from my apartment. It is the area where the resistance and Jewish people and other "undesirables" were taken by train and then killed.

War is ugly... Always

hey, no one else but me is posting now.

WAS IT SOMETHING I SAID??? :-D

Most ridiculous rumor of the day

"I heard from very close friends of his that the is planning to run for the Senate in Pennsylvania when Spector's term is about. This makes sense because he only has about a couple of years left on his MSNBC contract."

If Obama is a "secret Muslim", he would not reveal it. We only have his word. If it is a secret, he would lie. How do we know? Might want to read that article - "seeds of doubt" have been planted.

Most ridiculous rumor of the day is about Chris Matthews

MSNBC and CNN ignore Rasmussen when news is good for Hillary...

Rasmussen has been around a long time.

I look at the RCP averages, but even they include some dubious polls with very small samples.

What is clear? This race is close and volatile.

Go to Hillaryclinton.com..click blog..watch John Steward You Tube about "Too Much Democracy"

Dear Jack, Horsedooty,
LOL I can't type that name without giggling that post was filled with lots of typos, lol i meant to type CAT not KAT lol i did type a disclaimer after that post apologizing for the typo but I hope I got the point across.

Reagan democrats are unique, you know where men atre men and women know the difference and can appreciate it lol.

Just that I know the type being Irish and being raised in a multi-ethnic but predominantly tough Irish neighborhood where you stood your ground .

With all due respect, please forgive me, I just cannot see Barack running with those type of tough guys. That kind of respect is just not earned by fancy flowery speak.

Sincerely,
Heather

Gallup Just Out..

Obama 49 Hillary 46..

Hillary was 4 points behind yesterday and 10 behind just a few days ago..

This matches the movement toward her in Rasmussen..

The power of bowling??

Obama is not a Muslim. Not that there is anything wrong with being a Muslim and we need to stop demonizing other people's religions.

New Daily Gallup out. Now shrunk to three point difference. It will be back head to head in no time. We Clinton supporters just won't stay down. :-)

Have not been watching Fox today - FNC has Scott Rasmussen on a lot - talks about his polling results.

KGC: I am amazed what legs the crazy e-mails have.
I have a Republican friend..one of the few, who regularly gets these mass e-mails about both Obama .

When I do my Hillary sign holding in downtown Salem or Portland, people stop and bring up these e-mails. Some take them very seriously.

What intelligent person would think John Kerry's war service could be turned into a negative..??

ET

Yes the reference has to do with Jonestown. i.e. A charismatic leader who is followed so slavishly that they would poison their children with cyanide laced koolaid and then drink it themselves.

both Obama AND Hillary

Dear OG:
I wanted to thank you for your support the other day
I thanked you earlier but you may have missed the post as it was just before a thread change

It really meant a lot to me OG

Sincerely,
Heather

OD, I tend to go to POLLSTER.Com for the primary state polls - they tend to be a caick ahead of USAELECTIONPOLLS.com. I'll have to look at RCP and see how quickly they post. I also find POLLINGREPORT.com useful as a source for nationally based polls.

OD*
sorry

TIRADE??? Bill Clinton continues to be mischaracterized, this time on FOX..

One of the bleached,over-made-up newsreaders repeatedly referred to Bill's TIRADE..

When they got to details..he expressed his anger to super delegates about unfair treatment by press and his dismay that Bill Richardson told him personally 5 times that he would never support Obama..

Doesn't sound like a tirade to me..I wonder if they described John McCain's minutes long attack on a member of the press as a tirade..

I'm done with this tirade.

The "secret" part is the problem. If he is a Muslim, OK with me - just admit it, be honest.

Oregon Democrat

It's not a good thing that people think being a Muslim is somehow threatening.

I blame the media for Kerry and the Swiftboat. Even though it was well known there was no substance to the charges, the media pretended the charges were new and unexplored and then when finally the false claims were acknowledge the media blamed him for not fighting back. What a load of crap.

Of course notice how quick they were to defend McCain when some whackjobs started claiming he was staying in a hotel in downtown Hanoi. If that charge had been made against a Democrat the media would still be investigating while the charge hung out there.

Warren

"Figured I should back up my comments with some evidence so I don't lose my credibility on this blog"

Re the two links you put up. One was a blog which automatically means "opinion" and the other was clearly labeled "opinion". IOW both articles were as believeable as any claim you might make that was "opinion".

That doesn't mean they are worthless, but if you are going to put something up as "proof" of a position then you need to look for something that at least claims to contain facts or, at the least, first hand testimony.

This can be difficult since so much of what is printed, televised, or broadcast is nothing but "opinion" and therefore ... worthless as "proof".

Obama and supporters are whining about the way he is being represented in the media. I thought he was the candidate of suck it up and no complaining

Looks like a lot of whining to me WATB

Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | April 2, 2008 10:42 AM

Very simply. I just want to see Obama whining on tape....just show me.

Gordo

Secret Muslim?

LOL . Are you saying he is pretending to be a Christian to hide being a Muslim or that he is part of
someone planted here as part of an overreaching Muslim plot to take over the world.

KGC

Matthews would never run for an office. His ego couldn't take a loss and he would lose unless put up against a complete Obama like "strawman" opponent. Even that might be close since he has ceased to be credible about much of anything.

Gordo

Go get the dents removed from the tin foil.

OD, I believe Fox's application to the FCC listed "bash anythng Clinton" as its primary purpose, just ahead of "promote everything republican" and "news." News was thrown in as an afterthought.

Memo to President Clinton:

Re: Loyalty

Shakespeare had it right: Anyone who tells you the same thing five times, "Doth protest too much."

Julie-Young73,

Would love a link for that claim that Obama was a devout Muslim most of his life.

I have read so much and haven't seen anything like this.

Gordo,

Is it true you have ties to Right Wing Extremist groups or is that your secret? I mean I really don't care if you are or not, but shouldn't you tell us if you are?

At least be honest with us. We don't really care if you are or not, but be honest about it.

"OK with me - just admit it, be honest."

And if he is not, what do you want him to do?

He has said he is a Christian. He has denied he is a Muslim. What more do you want him to do?

OD, I think the combo of RCP and Pollster.com gives a very clear picture of the current state of the polls - for what they're worth.

AutoAdmit.com - OBAMA WHINES: "I'VE ANSWERED LIKE 8 QUESTIONS ...An exasperated Barack Obama scurried away Monday from the toughest news conference of his campaign, telling reporters who kept shouting questions that he'd ...

Obama WhinesEvery day we hear Obama whine about something. Today he's upset that the primary/election process includes super delegates who don't want him. ...

I mean, Being Devout Muslim does not hurt my feelings as a christian. Because he became a christian....and it doesn't really matter if he is or isn't. He could be an atheist for all I care.

Dear Oregon Democrat

Fox gets anything right about the Clintons The Other night O’Reilly said Hillary was only doing fluff interviews...the day before that she had completed a long interview with Richard Mellon Scaife, hardly a fluff interview like Obama's "The View" with tough questions like ohhhhh did you know you are related to Brad Pitt lol

Does Bill O’Reilly do research and fact finding before his program or his staff lol shoddy journalism at its worst.

Sincerely,
Heather

whining,blaming and running away

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbkhzsTwz_g

"Very simply. I just want to see Obama whining on tape....just show me."

I haven't noticed him "whining" any more than I have seen Sen. Clinton "whining". Both of them have "complained" about misstatements or characterizations about things said by the opposition, but it hardly qualifies as "whining".

Maybe both sides should stick with "said", "declared", "claimed", "noted", "denied", "affirmed" etc. rather than using emotionally weighted terms.

KGC-------------------------------

I don't believe he could get the Dem nomination as a Muslim. About a Muslim plot to take over - have no idea.

Now that I've been nice, someone get me a Bic to flick!! Sen. Obama is speaking in front of four perfectly positioned American flags.

Will he lead everyone in the Pledge four times? or just wrap them toga style over his shoulder when exiting the stage?

Heather..you are welcome..

Pogo..I need to go back to Pollster and Polling Report.

I went to these sites before I found RCP. I don't think they should be reporting any automated polling.

Thanks for suggestions..

Time togo outwith my Hillary signs..Beautiful day here..sunny..mid-60's.

"The chairman of the Federal Reserve, Ben S. Bernanke, presented his bleakest assessment yet of the economy on Wednesday morning, warning a Congressional committee that economic growth was likely to stagnate — and perhaps even contract — over the first half of the year."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/business/02cnd-bernanke.html?hp#

I am more and more stunned by Benanke's brilliance and insight. What in the world might lead him to conclude such a negative assessment?

This is from "Youth for Hillary" group on MySpace. I've decided to pass it on even though I have committed myself to support the DEM nominee no matter whom she or he might be. You can read my thoughts at my blog http://www.eurotom.blogspot.com or http://www.myspace.com/eurotom .. In either case, feel free to agree, disagree or ignore. Cheers.

Yes we will....... PLEASE REPOST EVERYWHERE
Body:
IMPACT 57% WE WILL NOT BE SILENCED.

WILL WE??

A recent Rasmussen poll states that 57% of Hillary supporters will stay at home or go so far as to vote for John McCain if Borack Husein Obama is our nominee. In light of Florida and Michigan effectively being silenced by the DNC is a defining reality that should give all Americans pause. How many soldiers have given their life, how many relatives of soldiers lost live in Florida or Michigan and will have no voice in this nomination.

CALL TO ACTION - democrats.
org / 202-863-8000

Call AND email the DNC today and each day to the end of the week. Tell them you are part of the 57% that will not fall in line and will not vote in the upcoming election, thereby giving the Presidency to John McCain.

THE MESSAGE - COUNT FLORIDA and COUNT MICHIGAN NOW or face defeat in November

Katie,

http://www.autoadmit.com/index.php?forum_id=1&hid=0&qu=obama+whines

I searched the site for Obama whining, whines....didn't get anything. But really.

I do want to hear a tape, clip, or something so that I can identify with what you are talking about.

I just can't remember a time that I heard a whiney voice on Barack Hussein Obama

Heather...

Yes she sat down with the Vast Right Wing leader Scaife and did an interview. The same Scaife who accused her of murdering or having had murdered Vince Foster.

Talk about collaborating with the enemy huh?

Thanks Katie,

I don't think that was whining. I definitely consider Obama Dodging the questions and avoiding, but not whining.

Thanks for trying.

Julie-Young73-----------------------------

Here is a link to that article - everyone else is afraid to read it.

Is Barack Obama a Muslim wolf in Christian wool?

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12745.htm

Heather, when you talk out of your ass like O'Reilly does, there's such a distance betwwen that "mouth" and the brain, doing research and putting stuff in the brain doesn't help - by the time the thought makes it to the ass, you've already uttered your comment. :-)

Right anon as opposed to Obama's close friendship with Tom Coburn which he celebrates as his ability to unite people

another example of it's ok when Obama has rightwing looney friends but not for Clinton

Sheila seee my 1:43 post
and this interview with Senator Boxer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtEBwz-2dMY&feature=related

she tells Obama to toughen up and quit whining at the end of the interview around 5:40

It's official, Gordo wins the scraping the bottom of the barrel award. Really Gordo, if you don't want people to think of you as repug scum don't act like it. Geez dude, get some help.

Whining is whining just because you think he always has tones of gold doesn't make the content any less of a fine whine

AP, granting an interview with your long time enemy is hardly collaborating. You're becoming ridiculous.

PPP's new poll has Obama leading in PA. I don't believe it.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/pa/pennsylvania_democratic_primary-240.html

kgc...

So has Tom Coburn accused Obama of murder like Scaife accused Hillary?

And do you really believe that Scaife is a friend of Hillary as your reply "another example of it's ok when Obama has rightwing looney friends but not for Clinton".

With friends like Scaife who needs enemies.

LOL true anon

I admire her guts to do it though.
The O Factor botched that one up

Geraldo once again looked foolish as well last week making the parachute of D.B. Cooper the centerpiece of his show with the infamous Furman. Turns out that the parachute was not the one used by D.B. Cooper. Can anyone say "Al Capone's Vault"
LOL!
--Heather

AP

Scaife has had some life changing events. I thought Christians believed in change and redemption and forgiveness. Guess I was wrong.

Julie-Young73-----------------------------

Here is a link to that article - everyone else is afraid to read it.

Is Barack Obama a Muslim wolf in Christian wool?

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12745.htm

Posted by: GORDO | April 2, 2008 1:54 PM

Gordo Thank you so much for letting me read that article.

If all of this is true it puts a great deal more depth on WHY Obama (In My Opinion) would be a perfect President for this time. ;0)

I will state however, that the article itself has clear overtones of prejudicial sway and some subtle hatred mixed in. But it is always beneficial to read everything on a candidate, good or bad.

I like the thought that Obama could have had that type of education AND there is a HUGE cultural difference between the African and Middle Eastern Muslims. HUGE. Thanks a lot!

If those numbers are true then this race is over. How padded are those numbers.

Jamie....
my little Paris was at the shelter as an owner-release...... she 's 2 yrs old and already been spayed...... you fix Wizard as soon as you can..... ALWAYS fix your pets!.....

whine....... aaaaahhhhh....... wine......
yup..... Rick and I had some awesome Argentinian wine in Quebec......

pogo.... Snow Geese don't come to New England..... it was my first time seeing them live..... they are pure awesome!

Can someone give me an intelligent reason why Al Gore would want a cabinet position on an Obama Administration? LOL its like been there done that don't want to go there again.

Me thinks Obama is puffing the magic dragon :-))

Hillary Clinton walked into a Pittsburgh Tribune-Review conference room last Tuesday to meet with some of the newspaper's editors and reporters and declared, "It was so counterintuitive, I just thought it would be fun to do."
The room erupted in laughter. Her remark defused what could have been a confrontational meeting.

More than that, it said something about the New York senator and former first lady who hopes to be America's next president.

More than most modern political figures, Sen. Clinton has been criticized regularly, often harshly, by the Trib. We disagreed with many of her policies and her actions in the past. We still disagree with some of her proposals.

The very morning that she came to the Trib, our editorial page raised questions about her campaign and criticized her on several other scores.
Reading that, a lesser politician -- one less self-assured, less informed on domestic and foreign issues, less confident of her positions -- might well have canceled the interview right then and there.

Sen. Clinton came to the Trib anyway and, for 90 minutes, answered questions.

Her meeting and her remarks during it changed my mind about her.

Walking into our conference room, not knowing what to expect (or even, perhaps, expecting the worst), took courage and confidence. Not many politicians have political or personal courage today, so it was refreshing to see her exhibit both.

Sen. Clinton also exhibited an impressive command of many of today's most pressing domestic and international issues. Her answers were thoughtful, well-stated, and often dead-on.

Particularly regarding foreign policy, she identified what we consider to be the most important challenges and dangers that the next president must confront and resolve in order to guarantee our nation's security. Those include an increasingly hostile Russia, an increasingly powerful China and increasing instability in Pakistan and South America.

Like me, she believes we must pull our troops out of Iraq, because it is time for Iraqis to handle their own destiny -- and, more important, because it is past time to end the toll on our soldiers there, to begin rebuilding our military, and to refocus our attention on other threats, starting with Afghanistan.

On domestic policy, Sen. Clinton and I might find more areas on which we disagree. Yet we also agree on others. Asked about the utter failure of federal efforts to rebuild New Orleans since the Katrina disaster, for example, she called it just what it has been -- "not just a national disgrace (but) an international embarrassment."

Does all this mean I'm ready to come out and recommend that our Democrat readers choose Sen. Clinton in Pennsylvania's April 22 primary?

No -- not yet, anyway. In fairness, we at the Trib want to hear Sen. Barack Obama's answers to some of the same questions and to others before we make that decision.

But it does mean that I have a very different impression of Hillary Clinton today than before last Tuesday's meeting -- and it's a very favorable one indeed.

Call it a "counterintuitive" impression.

Richard M. Scaife is the owner of the Tribune-Review.

pogo...

We all know that Scaife is no friend of Hillary's and for her to consider even sitting down with him after all he has done to destroy both Bill and her is the sign of a desperate person.

Do you really think that doing an interview with him is going to help her our in PA? I doubt it very much.

Is it going to be a lovefest on Hardball tonight when Chris talks to Obama on the college tour

ET

Fl and MI account for more than 300 of the 4000 deaths. There are only ten states that have lost more than 100 each and they are two of them.

Maybe Dean should just use the casualty figures for the number of voting delegates assigned

Heather...

I thought he was still looking for Al's vault. That one on the show was the fake one for us dummies. The real one is still being looked for by Geraldo and maybe one day he will find it.

Dear anon:
May not help her in the primaries but it would in the general should she get that far

--Heather

Ah I see Julie is a spreader of pathetic lies too, one would think at her age she would know better, guess not. Julie your desperation is showing, but hey you're clintonista, we shouldn't expect honesty any more from you than we should from your candidate.

For the C-listers not watching MSNBC...Craig is on now... 8~)

WooooooooooHooooooo

We have Craig in the house! Great to see you in the studio Craig!!! :-))

G-man and Max,

The anti-Israel info(l??) is not getting through apparently or more likely is taken for what it is, crap!.

Pa. Jewish Leaders Praise Obama in Letter

Josh Shapiro, the Jewish deputy speaker of the Pennsylvania House of Representatives, drafted an open letter to the state’s Jewish community on behalf of Mr. Obama, the candidate who boasts what Mr. Shapiro calls a “100 percent voting record on Israel issues.”

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/01/pa-jewish-leaders-praise-obama-in-letter/

Lets remind each other WHY we don't want Republicans back in......

04.02.08 -- 1:49PM

What's Worse Than Being a Democrat?
Monica Goodling -- former Justice Department liaison to the White House who admitted to Congress that she "crossed the line of the civil service rules" -- is under investigation by DOJ for her role in the firing of a department lawyer who was rumored to be a lesbian. "To some people, that's even worse than being a Democrat," a Republican source told NPR.

--David Kurtz

Rezdog!

Good detective work! Its great to see that normal thinking human beings live in the USA too. ;0)

Gordo - Just for grins I went and scanned a few of the online Israeli newspapers, and I have to say that Israel Insider is the most strident anti-Obama paper I saw. From the perspective of its news articles, it seems pretty credible, but it does have an anti-Obama bias wrt its editorial page. Of course there is a reason for that - GWB is very pro Israel, and its editorials suggest that Obama is seen by it as the least like Bush of the 3 candidates for pres. as far as likely policy positions toward Israel. I imagine that II is attempting to persuade American Jews who read it to support McCain, who is seen as the most like Bush wrt Israel. There is a lot of supposition in that article, and it certainly does not establish Obama asa secret Muslim.

An Exerpt because Rez, this is huge!

While we are profoundly disturbed by the unpatriotic, bigoted and anti-Semitic comments of the retired pastor of Senator Obama’s church, we are moved that Barack stood up at the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia earlier this month, and “condemned in unequivocal terms the statements of Reverend Wright” and expressed his own views on issues near and dear to the heart and soul of the Jewish community.
Specifically, in repudiating the remarks of his former pastor, Senator Obama said Reverend Wright “expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country…a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam.”
“We respectfully ask that you stand with Senator Barack Obama and vote for him on April 22,” the letter ends

Gordo / Julie

I read the whole article. Nowhere in it is there any testimony that he was a practicing Moslem once he returned to Hawaii at the age of 10. There is no evidence that his half sister by his mother's second marriage is a Moslem. That would lead someone to believe that any practice of the religion ceased once he left the Philippines and returned to the United States. He has said that the grandparents who raised him after the age of 10 were agnostic and that he practiced no religion until his relationship with Michelle.

"you are a Clintonista ... we shouldn't expect honesty any more from you than we should from your candidate."

I defend Sen. Obama because the whole Moslem story is a crock and then the source that makes sure I will never vote for the man shows up to remind me why.

Tom Coburn - Oklahoma

The former doctor and three-term Congressman elected during the "Gingrich Revolution" of 1994 is undoubtedly the most right-wing member of his new Senate class. Coburn called his campaign against conservative Democrat Brad Carson "a battle of good vs. evil," suggested blacks have a genetic disposition toward a shorter life expectancy, and said "lesbianism is so rampant in some of the schools in southeast Oklahoma that they'll only let one girl go to the bathroom." Most noteworthy, Coburn favors "the death penalty for abortionists and other people who take life," explaining his ardent opposition by noting how his great-grandmother was raped by a territorial sheriff. Not surprisingly, he earned a 97 percent lifetime approval rating from the American Conservative Union (ACU).

AP, what? You don't think favorable press in one of the 2 major papers, and incidentally the more conservative of the 2 - in the 2nd largest city in PA will help her win the election? In what world? This is politics, and sitting down for an interview with a past enemy who is the publisher of that paper is not collaborating - it's seeking favorable coverage. And in an area that has coal miners and colleges, it's probably smart politics.

no no....they said he was wearing MUSLIN........

Here we go, Media defends Obama...Seems like Obama got indignant refusing to take a picture...eventually relents and allows the picture...MSNBC calls person rude. I am taking bets, had it been Hillary instead of Obama would you like to bet MSNBC would blame Hillary and call her testy and losing her temper?

Yes MSNBC's biase for is alive and well

Sheila,

I ran across that article yesterday on one of the main political blogs(?), can't relocate now.:(

Thank you Jamie,

As always great solid research. ;0)

lol sturgeone

February 2007

Christopher Ruddy, who once worked full-time for Mr. Scaife investigating the Clintons and now runs a conservative online publication he co-owns with Mr. Scaife, said, “Both of us have had a rethinking.”

“Clinton wasn’t such a bad president,” Mr. Ruddy said. “In fact, he was a pretty good president in a lot of ways, and Dick feels that way today.”

As for the conservative response to Mrs. Clinton’s campaign, Mr. Ruddy said, “The level of intensity and anger toward Hillary is not getting to the level that it was toward Bill Clinton when he was president.” He added, “She has moderated and developed a separate image.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/19/us/politics/19clinton.html?ex=1329541200&en=d30d5826db47e539&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

Gee looks like admitting they were wrong.

pogo...

I highly doubt that Scaife is a past enemy. He is her enemy past, present and future. I have no doubt of that and firmly believe that if she is the nominee you will see a complete turn around on his part.

All she did is give the Repugs ammo to use if Obama is the nominee or to use back on her if she's the nominee.

Scaife is the Wolf in Sheeps clothing.

Renee, I'm surprised they don't migrate over NH - I never paid any attention. Of course what do I know of Snow Geese? I think the ones that migrate over here are Canadian Geese. They tend to go to the ponds on golf courses, and on one course here I asked the club pro whether you got a free drop on No. 5 & 6 if your drive landed in goose shit by the lake. He laughed and said yep - local rule.

From crooksandliars.com

But as Noah Shachtman explained in an interesting report, a study was written for U.S. Special Operations Command that took an entirely different approach to online communication, which included the suggestion of possibly “clandestinely recruiting or hiring prominent bloggers.”

“Hiring a block of bloggers to verbally attack a specific person or promote a specific message may be worth considering,” write the report’s co-authors, James Kinniburgh and Dororthy Denning…. Denning, a professor at Naval Postgraduate School, adds in an e-mail, “I got some positive feedback from people who read the article, but I don’t know if it led to anything.”

The report introduces the military audience to the “blogging phenomenon,” and lays out a number of ways in which the armed forces — specifically, the military’s public affairs, information operations, and psychological operations units — might use the sites to their advantage.

chuckling @ Sturg.... geez

Once again, for the C-listers not watching MSNBC...Craig is on now... 8~D

From crooksandliars.com

But as Noah Shachtman explained in an interesting report, a study was written for U.S. Special Operations Command that took an entirely different approach to online communication, which included the suggestion of possibly “clandestinely recruiting or hiring prominent bloggers.”

“Hiring a block of bloggers to verbally attack a specific person or promote a specific message may be worth considering,” write the report’s co-authors, James Kinniburgh and Dororthy Denning…. Denning, a professor at Naval Postgraduate School, adds in an e-mail, “I got some positive feedback from people who read the article, but I don’t know if it led to anything.”

The report introduces the military audience to the “blogging phenomenon,” and lays out a number of ways in which the armed forces — specifically, the military’s public affairs, information operations, and psychological operations units — might use the sites to their advantage.

Alex didn't read the numbers right...according to the graphic, HRC has increased her lead over JSMc, since FEB...

And it doesn't matter what your moniker is sturgeone they know who we all are. ISP's will give up your private info if ask and yes even without a warrant like the Telco's have already done.

Sturg,

As I'm sure FLATUS could tell you too. In the military long enough, you end up working PSHYOPS in some way. I did being a media type and it does NOT suprise me tha the military is doing this. Now in what way, we may never know....or maybe in another 50 years our grand children will find out.

Dang Craig,

you must be nipping on some of that kool-aid. Never heard you so positive about the O man.;)

From the article:

"In kindergarten, Senator Obama wrote an essay titled 'I Want to Become President.'"Iis Darmawan, 63, Senator Obama's kindergarten teacher, remembers him as an exceptionally tall and curly haired child who quickly picked up the local language and had sharp math skills. He wrote an essay titled, 'I Want To Become President,' the teacher said."

Three years later, in 1971, Obama enrolled in the Besuki Primary School, a government school, as Barry Soetoro, Muslim. In third grade, Senator Obama wrote an essay titled 'I Want To Be a President.' His third grade teacher: Fermina Katarina Sinaga "asked her class to write an essay titled 'My dream: What I want to be in the future.' Senator Obama wrote 'I want to be a President,' she said."

(Little Barry was very intelligent, he understood that the only way he could become POTUS was to be a "secret Muslim". Could be - how do we know? He can never prove that he is not. I understand that most here believe Obama. I just don"t know - how can I know? How can any of you know? Obama doesn"t lie about anything?)

So tell us Gordo does the Right Wing pay you good? With all the sloop your posting I sure hope so.

Good Job Gordo!

"Hiring a block of bloggers to verbally attack a specific person or promote a specific message may be worth considering,”

G-man, how much they paying you?

oooo....MUST READ Looks as though all of the protections set up to protect officials sanctioning torture is only good within US borders....a bit of the NAZI HUNTER scenario for foriegn countries......a potential War Crimes future? hmm.......

Top Bush Administration officials pressured underlings to use torture tactics at Guantanamo

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Highlevel_members_of_Administration_pressured_underlings_0402.html

Should have been slop, not sloop.

So what? I wanted to be a gambler, cowboy, lawyer, herpetologist and about a dozen other things. I suppose you never had any dreams of what you wanted to be.

Oh that's right you wanted to be what you are. A Right Wing Extremist.

AP, that may be. Welcome to the world of politics. If you think you try to appeal only to your friends, you had better think again. And I'd love to know what you think ammunition she gave Sciafe on Obama that Sciafe doesn't already know.

Heather - I doubt that Al is seeking a cabinet position, but I would think that he'd love to be Sec. of Energy under any admin.

Noron uttering today's BIG LIE about Sen. Clinton. She is copying Reagan about the manure/pony joke.

It WASN'T Ronald Reagan's joke!!!!!! ... Another assinine MSNBC bit of blather.

I first read that joke in Reader's Digest back in the 1950s and it was probably old then.

Pogo and Heather,

In reality, being a member of any cabinet would tie his hands in the fight on Global Warming. Gore has to stay out of this completely. We have bigger fish for him to fry....no pun intended. ;0)

I do not understand why people are so freaked out about BHO possibly being a Muslim...

Don't you just love Norah laugh? it's contagious..

Sheila...

Good article, thanks for the link, I'll read it all later.

I already mentioned the fact that those involved may not be able to set foot in some countries because of War Crimes charges and that they would always be looking over their shoulders.

LiL

It is all part of the whole conspiracy meme of all those crazed Muslims coming to destroy the United States and force all of us women into head to toe pillow cases.

I do not understand why people are so freaked out about BHO possibly being a Muslim...

Posted by: LushIsLinda | April 2, 2008 3:05 PM

Linda, Its one of those incredible falacies of human nature. When a war is on, the more diabalical and or ignorant tend to use race, religion, or some other indentifier to condone their own hatred or some sort of pay back.

And yes, we did this as a country to the Japanese Americans. Thank goodness as a country we have grown.

As a child I can remember feeling blind terror when around Japanese Americans. it took me adulthood and pruposefully getting to know the people and culture to stop these insane feelings.

But thank goodness my own son has never felt them.

You know(or maybe not), I lived in the Middle East for 3 years. When I was off compound, I wore an abiya...it was OK...my friends and I actually had a lot of fun with them!!

http://counterterrorismblog.org/2008/04/part_viii_cair_has_sponsored_i.php

Here is some information on Cairs which Khadili collaborated with and who had Al-Hanooti as a member. I think most Americans will see through the denials about their support for Hizb'Allah and Hamas as the article shows. Iraqi army drove through Sadr stronghold in Basra and as the BBC notes, while Sadr might have won some points, Maliki showed the Iraqi army is improving at that the government can take on militant Shia.

Shelia, Obama will have to reject Khadili and his church which continues to post anti-Israeli crap in their newsletters. He will have to explain his funding support of AAAN and how he could not have known of their collaboration with Cairs. Jamie has already posted the list. Without a stonger stand and an explanation why McPeak, Malley and Zbig are advisors, I doubt his message will sell in November.

And did Obama really have to be pushed by FOX to even take issue with remarks just a short time earlier he said were not controversial? I guess it gets back to what the definition of a lie is. Instead we have MSNBC re-defining what lying is all about.

Gordo

Please go get your loose screws tightened or I will sic a herd of diabolical kindergarteners on you. You might never recover from the sticky lollypops in your hair.

Lush - no one here is actually freaked out by Obama's Muslim religious background, but there are many Americans who are freaked out by the possibility that someone sympathetic to Muslims - who as we all know are all terrorists - might sit in the white house. Some Israelies are understandably paranoid about Muslims. I do not think anyone here actually believes Obama has Muslim leanings of any sort - although Gordo may. If we are going to discuss the issues in any way related to religions of the middle east, the issue IMHO sould not be whether he is Muslim, but rather should be what his policy inclinations are toward the parties in the middle east and southern Asia, where the majority of muslims are.

Well Nora just twisted another one.

Clinton said: Richardson told me five times that he WOULD NOT endorse Sen. Obama

Richardson said: I never told anyone I WOULD endorse Sen. Clinton.

Somehow Norah turns this into "Which one is LYING?"

How stupid is this woman?

just don't listen.

I was just reading the commentary on that SD meeting in Cali and I even doubt it was exactly as written.

I mean, most of this crapfest is just that.

Stop taking gossip about both candidates to heart.

A little stroll with Noron

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/03/23/odonnell-rove/

- although Gordo may.
--pogo

ya think???

I personally do not think any candidates' religion should be an issue.

Max,

I set this out for you late last nite. I 'm sure his opinion doesn't mean much to you, but so what.

"Barack Obama gets former Rep. Lee Hamilton's endorsement"

Hamilton, a 35-year House member from Indiana, which holds its presidential primary May 6, chaired the Committee on Foreign Affairs and co-chaired both the 9/11 commission and the Iraq Study Group."

“I read his national security and foreign policy speeches," Hamilton told Bloomberg News today, "and he comes across to me as pragmatic, visionary and tough. He impresses me as a person who wants to use all the tools of presidential power.”

Sheila and LiL

Any time there is an "Enemy", the pattern is to minimize them as human beings so that it becomes easier to incarcerate kill them in war. Whether is is Japs or Gooks, it is all part of the same pattern. If they lose value as human beings, then it is easier to lead public opinion to support war time actions and funding.

Lil, Some Abiyas are quite beautiful and experiencing another culture can be quite pleasurable. It is working out the balance between traditional observance and modern thought that can be difficult.

Pogo,

I am not a computer geek. This is the first list I have ever posted on - not savvy on it all.

So what does IMHO mean. Have seen it quite a bit.

Help me here please.
Julie

LOL @ "Muslim leanings"

Also Richardson and Obama wanted Musharraf out ASAP and heralded Bhutto's willingness to take on militants and let the US interrogate A Q Khan, their nuclear Godfather. Instead, the Gucci/Prada government of Pakistan announces that force is only a last resort after deals with militants (something Obama decried of Musharraf) and that Khan will likely go free without interrogations. I guess Obama was wrong.

With China providing info on Iran and Russia repeating its call for Iran to stop enrichment, what side is Obama on, I forgot? Did Obama talk about cutting military aid to Columbia before Columbia raided FARC and discovered a uranium plot and that Chvez had given FARC $300,000,000? On the computer was the encouragment for FARC that soon Obama would be Presidente and that Cloumbia would be critically weakened. Support for the US as the BBC points out is sharply up in Brazil and Chile while Mexico complains it can't stop drug lords from practicing military games on their border. Will Obama cut their military aid too?

Back to the Wright stuff, did Obama denounce the remarks of Meeks? And once again, did Rezko and Woods Fund give money to Obama's buddy, Khadili in 2002? And Trinity because of the good work Obama was doing at Woods Fund. I'm sure McCain will ask Obama if that Fund included an organization that supported those who held and tortured McCain while he was a POW. That will be a marvellous exchange, don't you think? I already posted the link to that group of Quakers whose name makes you think they're selling cookies for the girlscouts.

My bad, this is simply because Obama happened to be on Chicago's South Side.

Julie

IMHO - In My Humble Opinion

FWIW - For What It's Worth

IIRC - If I Recall (Remember) Correctly

Here's a pretty good reference page

http://www.sharpened.net/glossary/acronyms.php

Dear Julie it means IMHO means in my humble opinion
--Heather

Jamie

Thank You

Julie

Dear Julie
You may find this site helpful although computer slang can drive one batty if used too often lol

http://www.internetslang.com/default.asp?i=A

Sincerely,
Heather

Max,

Concerning Khadili......why, when I am googling his name do I always get "Crawford's Trail Mix" as a link? I can't find this person linked to Obama otherwise.

Want to help?

Julie, what Jamie and Heather said. :-)

Oh, and welcome to the blogosphere. Sorry you were greeted in such a rude manner - glad to see you are unbowed.

Jamie

Speaking from my own experience, I can honestly say I loved every minute of my time spent in Saudi Arabia!! I would go back in a heartbeat!!

We have actually gone back, several times, to visit friends in the Middle East.

Middle Easterners are actually quite "modern", in their thinking...really they are not much different from Westerners.

Try these search terms

Rashid Khalidi Obama

sturge - I got a great laugh out of this article - particularly the portion of it describing Snorah and her guitar. I have to wonder about a music reviewer who can't tell a Stratocaster from a Mustang.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/arts/music/02jones.html

btw, after falling for all sorts of odd IMHO guitars, there may be hope for Li'l Pogo yet - his latest loves are and SG Special edition ( but with 3 pickups and vintage trem tailpiece a la Angus Young) and a Fender Strat (which he really just fell for the paint job - one of the splatter jobs from MX - until he picked it up to play and had an epiphany).

"Well Nora just twisted another one.

Clinton said: Richardson told me five times that he WOULD NOT endorse Sen. Obama

Richardson said: I never told anyone I WOULD endorse Sen. Clinton.

Somehow Norah turns this into "Which one is LYING?"

How stupid is this woman?"

===============================================

Dear Jamie:
I'm not sure but she bumbled Oconomowoc WI. about five times
:-))
Heather

Hamilton is one of many. Shall I post comments by other people? I read the Baker report and had we followed that contradiction we would be tripling our body bags. Did Hamilton agree with Obama of 2004, or Obama of 2007? Did he comment on the advisors Obama has assembled or applaud telegraphing Predator strikes on Pakistan?

He isn't very pro-choice, blocked Congressional investigation into arms sales to Iran under Reagan and Bush 1, and sits on the board of some Liberal Foreign Policy groups. He is hardly left, but I don't think his endorsement seals any deals. He is from the school that often would rather we wait until attacked before we respond and I don't remember his fued with Baker over arming Saddam. He was also around when we decided to proxy extremists to fight the Russians that Zbig baied into Afghanistan. I did not see him scream over accountability when the Shah was booted. I say all this to temper the idea that Hamilton is the word. He "leans to center" but then other moderates have joined Obama. And last, did Hamilton reject Gore's deal with the Russians that green-lighted their weapons and technology sales to to Iran? You do realize that the Gore agreement has born some rotten fruit, yes? What threats did he level at Sharif and was he completely suprised by the Pakistani bomb? There are plenty of lessons to be learned.....

One result of the search

Monday, Feb. 25 2008
Obama Worked with Terrorist, Expert Says
PR Newswire
Comtex

JERUSALEM, Feb 25, 2008 /PRNewswire-USNewswire via COMTEX/ -- Senator helped fund organization that rejects 'racist' Israel's existence

The board of a nonprofit organization on which Sen. Barack Obama served as a paid director alongside a confessed domestic terrorist granted funding to a controversial Arab group that mourns the establishment of Israel as a "catastrophe" and supports intense immigration reform, including providing drivers licenses and education to illegal aliens, according to Aaron Klein, Middle East correspondent for WND.com.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/article/obama-worked-terrorist-expert-says_492428_1.html

" don't believe he could get the Dem nomination as a Muslim. About a Muslim plot to take over - have no idea. "

Gordo -- you are an idiot. I could give a damn what religion Obama is, although we know damned well he is a Christian. Like Sheila said, I don't care if he's an athiest. I DO HOWEVER care that his health care plan probably won't help me get covered. And that this country can tax me to death to buy bombs but tell me to go to hell since I have a prexisting health condition. Of course, maybe I won't die before I turn 65, and then I can be on medicare......

I believe Obama fits right in with the people on Kos and Josh Marshall and that crowd. NO concern for working class America. NONE.

Ohhhhyeahhhh...for the C-listers not watching MSNBC, Craig is on, again!! 8~P

Max, has anyone ever accused you of being a tad sarcastic? I thought so. lolol

Shelia, because I fail to check my spelling.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=Rashid+Khalidi&spell=1

When I first saw his name it had been mispelled by another. Then habit drilled it into my rather dense mind. It is Khadili.

My only excuse is that before late 2002, I had never owned a computer and infrequently typed much beyond billing...LOL

When I'm trying to poke-type fast, I tend not to proof-read to get it out into the stream. When I have time, I often have many fewer typos. My apologies and I will try harder to be more literate, if not K, more humorus

"All she did is give the Repugs ammo to use if Obama is the nominee or to use back on her if she's the nominee."

And all you do is talk about Nazis and bash the Clintons. I wish people had to take mental health exams to vote.

" Another assinine MSNBC bit of blather."

Sometimes I wonder if it's just blather, Jamie. After all, MSNBC gave us Bush and Iraq. They destroyed Gore and Kerry. They cheerleaded the war. They are owned by one of the biggest defense contractors in the world. I now wonder exactly why they are so pro-Obama and anti-Clinton. God knows GE didn't line their pockets under Bill.....

Lil

The closest I came was my father being proposed to by a young Arab man to allow me to return to Saudi Arabia to be raised by his family in order to become his wife at some point in the future. :-)

Almost caused a bit of an international incident at the time since dad was stationed at Williams AFB, and I was only seven. Dad turned him down gracefully, but I cleaned up like a bandit since Kamel practically bought out the PX to bring me gifts. Unfortunately, he lost his life in Korea.

Yes, Pogo and kinda yes Pats.

I do enjoy some of Gordo's links. He can be pretty smart at times. Hamilton rejected the truthers of course. One thing that always puzzled me was why there was so little debris at the Pentagon. I did some some fottage of a plane, but despite great proof that planes blew up the WTC, it is strange about the lack of debris.

THIS IS NOT AN ENDORSEMENT OF THE TRUTHERS

Also Jamie knows a bit about Woods Fund. I was surpised that AAAN prides its collaboration with Cairs. Shelia, it is not believable that Obama had no idea what his friend was up to and Gordo can tell you about how far Obama and KHALIDI go back....ah, got it right this time.

Thanks KGC,

In the spirit of information whether factual or not, I'd like to share what I found....and again, its just to show GORDO and Maxtrue and a few others in this community that its all out there and a LOT of it is a lie.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58449

ELECTION 2008
Hillary takes cash from terror suspects
Muslim donors targets of federal investigation

Presidential candidate Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., has taken thousands of dollars in cash donations from Islamists under federal investigation for terror-financing, money laundering and tax fraud, WND has learned.
The Democrat senator over the past seven months has received $1,000 from M. Yaqub Mirza and another $500 from M. Omar Ashraf, federal campaign records show. Federal agents raided the Virginia homes and offices of the Muslim donors after 9/11 for ties to terrorism.

Others tied to the still-active probe also have contributed money to Clinton, including one Muslim man who after 9/11 complained the U.S. government should focus on changing its Mideast policies instead of killing Osama bin Laden and other Islamic terrorists.

Mirza, who also has given to other candidates, including Republicans, is said to act on behalf of Saudi millionaire Yassin al-Qadi, who the U.S. Treasury Department in October 2001 blacklisted as an al-Qaida financier.

I tend to doubt that Clinton knew what ties this person had. Just like I tend to ere on the side of Obama NOT knowing the ties of the person sitting on that board with him.

Just a teaching moment you guys. I'm not implying anything except this is BS and everyone is getting smeared.

My teaching moment was showing you another way to search that would give you different results.

I am loving MSNBC today. Craig is actually getting a decent amount of interview time. The station may not be able to stand that much logic and good sense, but we can hope.

Sheila,

The reason the search terms lead you here is because of Gordo and others like him. That is why we jump on him for planting the same crud multiple times. The Google spiders pick up each planting as an individual reference. This boosts the numbers for his favorite source and makes her look more popular than she is and fuels all the conspiracy crowd because "so many people believe it" when they look at the numbers.

Katie,

Max Misspelled the name. You gave me corrected spelling....that is all ;0)

Jamie, I always knew that you guys and Craig weren't the sourse of Dis-information. lol Common.

Sheila,

This is what you get when using "bundlers" to raise money. You may know the person doing the money collecting without having any idea as to the associations of the individuals who gave the bundler money when all you have is their name, address, occupation, and amount.

Shelia, I have never used WND as a source. I asked Gordo not use them either. I posted a site earlier of distinguished counter terrorism experts and in the past have listed others. So please stop the mud throwing to divert attention away from the facts. The WND info in Obama has been collaborated by other sources including information at the Woods Fund.

I hope you take a different line in defending Obama rather than beating the messenger. I would not be shocked if some individuals contributing to Hillary were Islamists. The questions about Rezko, Auchi, Khalidi, AAAN, Cairs are interconnected and REAL. They span more than a decade of association and fit nicely into the objections with Wright. In fact, Woods Fund gave Trinity money for the fine work Obama did as a director.

Jamie,

i do know that and thanks for pointing that out to everyone here. Its perilous and a lot would be corrected with proper campaign finance reform, rather than this Catch 22 we are seeing the results off.

"The nonpartisan Center for Media and Public Affairs has found that since last December, 83 percent of the reporting on Senator Obama was positive. Only 53 percent of the reporting on Senator Clinton was positive.

And she has the lead in super delegate votes, so why in the world is there this compulsion, this absolute insistence in the national media to talk about the fact she can’t win the nomination? Neither can Senator Obama. And I have never seen in my career greater favoritism being applied in the national media broadly speaking than in this campaign in behalf of Senator Obama and against Senator Clinton.

You know something Lou? I have never seen anything like this in my lifetime either. Not in over a half century. And frankly, it seems more like fascism than democracy to me. Pure propaganda. While the current bias of the media does not violate the letter of the law because it is not Congress that is suppressing the press, we are surely witnessing a concerted assault to the spirit of the law. And it is a grave insult and injustice to all those gallant patriots that have sacrificed their lives and limbs to protect our Constitutionally guaranteed Freedom of the Press.

It is a very undemocratic strategy to be certain. And in fact it is reminiscent of some of the most heinous Republican smear campaigns ever enacted. This makes Bush’s McCain sired a black baby campaign look like child’s play. People like Robert Gibbs and David Axelrod should be proud to have taken this Democratic party into the realm of fascism, party bosses, henchmen and thugs that this Chicago style Obama campaign prides itself on. They will certainly go down in the history books as the most vile campaign managed in recent history."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/04/02/anti-hillary-media-bias-proven/

The Illinois political machine (Democratic) on a daily basis, has continual raising of taxes, waste, graft, corruption, payoffs, embezzlement, innumberable judges and elected officials (including the Governor) being sent to jail, it never ends. This is what a one-party system gets you, state of the the messiah U.S. Senator Obama.

What I would love to know is this supercilious mantra of "Change" of his; well can anyone tell me what has changed in Illinois since he has been Senator? Where is this so called "Change" of his? The answer is nowhere. It would be exactly the same in an Obama Presidency.

I say let him prove himself, run for Governor of Illinois solve its woes of corruption, prove yourself to America then run fpr the presidency

--Heather

I never mention the name of my blog here - it's over in the blog roll folks (smile), but because of cross postings on other pages, if I put the name in google, I get 21,500 hits. I'm sure Gordo's employer or whatever she is has a whole lot more.

Maxtrue my dear,

Don't think I am mudslinging. I just never put you in the spot light.

My intent was to point out that a LOT of what you guys are digging up is just not vetted properly.

No wonder the national Media hasn't picked it up.

But, I never accused you of anything. Like I said, "A teaching Moment'. ;0)

OMG, Jamie....Kamel's proposal, by American standards, is very weird...but your Dad should not have allowed you to accept gifts from the guy...yikes!!

Pogo....
so you're ornithologically challenged..... :0)

we have a lot of Canadian geese around here.....
Snow geese are a different breed..... kinda like how spaniels and beagles are both dogs.....

Canadian geese migrate in small flocks..... Snow geese are like the Wilder beast of geese.... they migrate in enormous flocks....
I've seen many specials on them on tv..... there's a very famous place in New Mexico called Bosque del Apache where they migrate to in November....
you usually see stories about the Snow geese's migration there....

aaaahhhh...... spring has sprung here..... it's glorious....

Things are not looking good for Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe - his party has lost control of Parliament.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/03/world/africa/03zimbabwe.html?hp

Lee Hamilton is the "Go-To Guy" for cover-up investigations (October Surprise, Iran Contra and possibly 9/11).

He brought the gifts to my father who I'm sure didn't have a clue other than someone being nice to his child ... He got a rather rapid eduction in cultural differences. ... I agree ... yikes!!!

Of course the political side of this is that we are talking about 1951 and Saudis being flight trained at an American Air Force Base ... how is that for a bit of strangeness?

How is it that the Secret Service allowed that guy(who wanted a pic) to get close enough to touch BHO?

Renee, I quit the Biddle Bird Watchers when Ms, Jane was cancelled along with Jed, Grannie, Ellie Mae, Jethro and Mr. Dysdale.

But I do know a LBB when I see one.

Max

Just for the record, Jamie doesn't know anything about the Woods Fund of Chicago other than the location of their webpage. http://www.woodsfund.org/

Saudis being flight trained at an American Air Force Base
--Jamie

yeah, that's very weird...

I was wondering why he was allowed to shop in the PX...LOL!!!

Well, gotta go - soccer practice, ya know.

Drysdale.

Oh Lord...less than 10 minutes until the Chris Obamatthews "BHO slurpfest" begins...

LushIsLinda

Are you going to live blog the show for us?

"Its one of those incredible falacies of human nature. When a war is on, the more diabalical and or ignorant tend to use race, religion, or some other indentifier to condone their own hatred or some sort of pay back."

I don't know which is more offensive and stupid. The above mentality, or the ones that are saying, "Wow, if we can just show the world a President with a name like Barack Obama and with ties to other cultures, maybe they'll like us again.

Over to CNN.

"Just a teaching moment you guys."

Oh. Do we get college credit?

Let us know if Chris drools on him or gets all shaky from the thrill up his leg.

He's doing a great job on Hardball.

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