Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

It's amazing how many people have repeated, "McCain wants to keep us at war for 100 years." and no one in the media has stopped them and said, "That's not exactly how he said it."

If we haven't learned anything else from listening to Vice-President Cheney, it should be that these guys need to be called on this stuff before continued usage gives these lies currency.

Strike force? Huh???

Your appearance was too short this morning...they've got to give you enough time to fully develop your theme. Still good, but...

And, here's another smoking-gun re Administration's role in torture:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080402/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/torture_memo_17

www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUE-QmH-n4Q

No Craig, I disagree with you. Here is McCain's MTP interview.

He is talking about taking an occupation turning into our just being "friends" and Welcome in that country. Therefore being "Invited" to stay.

An Anerican presense in the middle east is a terrible idea! The real reason he wants to keep us there for even "100" years is the OIL and its value.

I agree with Barack Obama on his quoting 100 years. Its a dangerous slip for McCain and if Senator Clinton hasn't been talking about it....well She wants to keep John McCain in the race anyway.

If McCain and Clinton are the Race after the Primaries, SHE is going to attack McCain with the same arguement!

Here's Obama's Comments.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/01/obama-casts-race-between-_n_94545.html

Obama argued that McCain would merely be another four years of President Bush on economic and military policies. McCain has criticized Obama as being inexperienced on national security, and the Illinois senator answered back.

"Meanwhile Senator McCain has been saying I don't understand national security, but he's the one who wants to keep tens of thousands of United States troops in Iraq for as long as 100 years," Obama said.

The McCain and Obama camps have been feuding for days over remarks McCain recently made when he said the U.S. could end up having a long-term military presence in Iraq, similar to the more than 50-year presence of U.S. soldiers in Germany and South Korea.

"One hundred years in a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 may make sense to George Bush and John McCain but it is the wrong thing to do. It is not right for our national security. It is not right for our economy," Obama said to applause at a town hall

Well, Stinky's getting ready for her quarterly visit to her oncologist. Bet there're lots of people who've made those half-hour drives to those appointments. You know, the drives where you coo over the dogwoods and azaleas all the time thinking about something else.

She's getting first-class care by a top oncologist. And, we're able to afford it because, in the last months of his Administration, Pres Clinton signed into law the 'Tricare for Life (TFL)' provisions that gave military retirees the healthcare they were promised as inducements to career service.

Sheila will be able to tell you how future benefits were held out as the carrot for going career. Goodness knows, we enlisted people were paid as little as possible and were the ones on whose backs budgets were balanced.

Even right now, the Repug Administration is trying to force major degradations in the TFL program. Shame on them!

They tell the generals and admirals, that they have a choice--bullets for the people in combat, or medical care for long-over-the-hill retirees who are going to die anyhow.

Now, I fully expect that Stinky will get a good report this morning. And, that's largely due to the superb care she's received during her journey.

TFL should be the model for our universal healthcare program. It works.

Obama Wins Backing of 9/11 Commission Co-Chairman Lee Hamilton

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?sid=ag9nXSjQZIlA&pid=20601070

April 1 (Bloomberg) -- Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama has won the endorsement of one of his party's top foreign policy figures, Lee Hamilton, who hails from Indiana, home to one of the next crucial primary votes.

Hamilton, a former U.S. House member who co-chaired the commission that investigated the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and headed the House Committee on Foreign Affairs, said he was impressed by Obama's approach to national security and foreign policy.

``I read his national security and foreign policy speeches, and he comes across to me as pragmatic, visionary and tough,'' Hamilton said in an interview. ``He impresses me as a person who wants to use all the tools of presidential power.''

Second that Flatus and it probably will. Why change something that works and has been proven since Post WWII

But the situation in Iraq isn't exactly parallel to that of Germany or South Korea. We invaded Iraq, and so far, haven't won the war there. And in addition, Germany and South Korea have been much more open to western (read "American") presence. The Iraqis don't want us there now, much less for 100 years of occupation.

Well, of course it's primarily about the oil. But, sister sheila, I think you need to turn your wimple around the right way and see the light. Obama's penny isn't as shiney has it was once & by playing politics, he himself if the one dirtying it. I heard the McCain comment & he was talking about a long, term NATO-esque presence. (This morning's task: come up with a fun, new acronym for that one...or, we can all just jump into our hot tubs & watch our clothes inflate.)

ps - Is word verifier really necessary?

Hillary wants to keep McCain in the race , Sheila? Isn't it forgone that McCain is the Republican's candidate this election? If it's not McCain , then who's left?

Corey,

OK so I didn't have a cup of coffee.... lol I have one now.

Sister Blue, That's the whole point. Our economy is stageringly in crisis. Europe is speculating about another Great Depression....

Not only is another hundred years in a country that we Occupied wrong, its just plain continuing our ruination.

Okay. Just checking. LOL!

2nd Obama-linked pastor under fire for racist talk

" Sen Barack Obama has been linked to another controversial pastor, this time a declared spiritual adviser who has called white American mayors "slave masters," and referred to black preachers and politicians who "protect" the "white man" as "house n-ggers."

"We don't have slave masters, we got mayors," exclaimed James Meeks, an Illinois state senator and pastor of one of the largest churches in the state, in an August, 2006 sermon broadcast on a Chicago community television channel.

Aside from his senatorial duties, Meeks is an Illinois superdelegate pledged to Obama, and also presides over Salem Baptist Church, described as the largest church in Illinois with some 20,000 members. He has served as an executive vice president for Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/PUSH organization.

A recent Meeks endorsement of Obama is touted on the presidential candidate's campaign website."

(Yes, I know it is WND)

http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=59735

mornin' all.

Craig, I have to second Flatus' thought that your MoJo appearance was a good one, but as always, too short. It still bewilders me why MSNBC doesn't take more advantage of your thoughts - you of course know how most of us here feel about you as one of the few honest brokers in the punditocracy.

Sheila, McNumnuts' words about a U.S. presence in Iraq fro 100 years are plenty bad enough without resort to exaggerating what he said. And believe me, I do not support the republican candidate for president of the United States. I would just like to see an honest campaign run on the differences of the candidates on the issues. Both Barack and Hillary have exaggerated McCain's statements - probably because their handlers have fed the lines to them (I doubt they have a lot of time to chill and watch the tube to see what he actually said as they go from town to town and appearance to appearance).

Anyone read the CQ article about the MS HofR runoff races? It gives a fairly good idea about why we can't assume we Dems are going to continue the successes of '06 in this election without doing the hard work it takes for the candidates to win. I recommend you read it and think about those results for a bit before you comment on them.

http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=news-000002695189

Hi Sheila:

I just watched the McCain video you posted and what he says is exactly what Craig characterizes in his post today. He equated staying in Iraq with Japan and South Korea.

Hey, I'm one of those people that thinks we should mind our own business everywhere. I keep saying why can't we mind our own business like Canada does? A very smart friend of mine who is a PoliSci scholar pointed out (with more detail than I'm giving now) that the reason Canada can mind their own business is because we don't. The countries surrounding us benefit from our "world power" status.

OK...this is not a defense of John McCain or the Iraq war. Just a defense of Craig's observation that Obama (and Clinton) mis-characterized what he said because it makes for good political rhetoric in bashing the other side. I don't have a problem with it myself. It's just that, as Craig noted, Obama said he was above that.

Craig's right and Sheila's right. It was obvious to anyone but a moron that McCane was not talkng about a 100 year-long all out war, but keeping a presence in Iraq. The problem is that no matter what he or any other military-type thinks, it's not going to work. We will always be seen as the enemy. The attacks will continue. That billion dollar embassy is not just a joke, but a criminal joke. We can't possibly afford to stay.

What angers me most is that our national psyche is now of the opinion that this is all the Iraqis fault for "not standing up." Christ. We destroyed their country and our economy and somehow now it's all their fault.

Morning Pogo,

Well I think you need to reread Obama's comments....I read truth and I did not read embellishment. I provided a link to Obama's appearance in question too.

Maybe you will go back to my link and read Obama's remarks. They are as honest as can be. No exageration.

He doesn't want to stay in an occupied country as the occupiers for any longer than we have to.

Hillary Clinton doesn't either by the way....or is this the line in the sand? Does Hillary Clinton agree with McCain on this too?

I'll read later, time for my hair appointment.

Patsi:

Good post.

Mary-Kitt. No, Iraq isn't Germany or South Korea, but then Germany isn't South Korea, although our involvement in those wars certainly had their parallels. I seem to recall that we did invade Germany before we occcupied it, and we fought a border war in Korea with North Korea before we installed a force in South Korea to protect its sovereignty.

Germany is of course a western nation - one of the westernest, in fact - but we weren't invited, and we weren't attacked by Germany before we went to war with them (notwithstanding Belushi's confusion on that matter). In fact, I would argue that Iraq has more parallels to Germany than to South Korea. I only hope the Iraq debacle turns out like the German one, but if it does, Li'l Pogo will be driving an Iraqi car when he reaches middle age.

Thanks Patsi,

I agree with all your remarks too. now time for highlights... ;0)

http://www.cbs.com/latenight/lateshow/video_player/index/php/950272.phtml

Letterman's Monologue featuring John McCain.

Some good news on the missing dog I mentioned night before last, Pup is back safe and sound and thank you for all your good wishes and prayers there.

Good karma comes through again.

PS: dog is not mine, but a fellow C Lister's. Did not mention whom in event pup stayed gone for too long. But happy ending to this one.

Sheila, really. McCain said he'd leave tens of thousands of troops there for 100 years? I really don't think so - but I am always open to admitting I'm wrong if I am - but please provide a link to that text - I can't open streamers here.

"Here’s McCain’s full quote, in context, from back in January:

Questioner: President Bush has talked about our staying in Iraq for fifty years…
McCain: Maybe a hundred. Make it one hundred. We’ve been in South Korea, we’ve been in Japan for sixty years. We’ve been in South Korea for fifty years or so. That’d be fine with me as long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed. Then it’s fine with me. I would hope it would be fine with you if we maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world where Al Qaeda is training, recruiting, equipping and motivating people every single day."

From the Columbia Journalism Review article.

Iraq was certainly a wrong headed mistake that was badly executed to boot, and we are certainly bogged down there at present as a result. But McCain said what he said, not what Barack suggested.

And Patsi, exactly.

Good Morning Craig, All my friends here on Craig's Trail Mix:-))

Craig you were your normal sterling standard of excellence, I just wish there were more of it

Poor Mika cannot cook pancakes LOL don't worry Mika Brian of NYC to the rescue one of his talents other than being a wascualy wabbit here on Craig's Trail Mix he loves to help you cook we will be gland to Fedex Brian to you:-))

--Heather

Heather - Brian's close enough that he could be bicycle messengered over.

Dear Pogo:
LOL I Love it, that was a great line:-))

--Heather

Gordo,

We don't have slave masters, we got mayors," exclaimed James Meeks,

Without knowing what Reverend Meeks said next there's no way to know if he equated Mayors with slave masters or said the Mayors serve the people. The tone of the article, seems to indicate he took the harder line, but that quote alone says nothing.

All that notwithstanding it's about time we pay attention to the candidates' words and actions and stop getting excited about what their supporters say and do.

Hi all. A good LA Times piece today on one of al Qaeda's top terrorist operatives, with some good context on the overall state and strength of al Qaeda today.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-ubaida2apr02,0,2079101.story

(Heather, my Royals also won their opening game Monday against the mighty, muscled-up Tigers...but we can't tell Corey!)

As the Canadian in Residence at Trailmix... my theory about Canadians minding their own business is... climate.. we're still buried under snow in June, so there's little possibility of our getting in the middle of anything elsewhere.

And in the spirit of not getting in the middle of things, while you're all cheering about opening day baseball, we're stocking supplies (beer, chips, chicken wings) for the hockey playoffs. I'm sorry Dex, but Canadiens RULE! *waves pilfered hockey flag*

Hockey here tonight: Archie Campbell

http://www.jibjab.com/view/135897

people who are backing obama cant reason.....everything obama does everything he says cannot be critizised........you have to understand he is the PERFECT person.....dont blame him for supporters remarks but blame clinton for her supporters remarks....it goes on and on.......i just hope if he wins he dosnt screw this country up and cause the dems to go another 28 years with only one president

Tylenol

"my theory about Canadians minding their own business is... climate.. "

And here I thought it was because you were smarter than Americans.

oh..and if we were into world domination, then we'd be off to a great start!

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080330/women_curling_080330/20080330?hub=CTVNewsAt11

nooo jamie.. it's all about the snow!

screw the country up? tz, now that made me laugh.. how could it get more screwed up??

EdVB----------------------------

Wright, Meeks and others would be used against Obama in the GE with great effect. Actually, the Rev Wright story has not gotten much coverage - I am amazed at just how little. A few days ago, FNC listed the amount of time the broadcast and cable news (?) outlets have devoted to this. Except for FNC, the Rev's rants received zero to a few seconds of air play. Most people have not heard this stuff, unless they listen to right-wing radio. It is toxic. Dems who believe this would have little impact in the GE are just out of touch with mainstream America.

From Newsmax:

"Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign is using the controversy over Sen. Barack Obama's pastor to woo superdelegates, who are critical to her White House hopes.

In an interview with TalkingPointsMemo.com, Clinton adviser Harold Ickes admitted that he's raising the issue of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr. with superdelegates, suggesting that Obama's electability in a general election has been damaged by the uproar over Wright's shocking comments. Wright has blamed the U.S. government for the spread of HIV and repeatedly said “God damn America.”

“Superdelegates have to take into account the strengths and weakness of both candidates and decide who would make the strongest candidate against what will undoubtedly be ferocious Republican attacks,” Ickes told the Web site. “I’ve had superdelegates tell me that the Wright issue is a real issue for them,” Ickes said."

http://newsmax.com/insidecover/obama_clinton_wright/2008/04/01/84740.html

TY
thats my point exactly .....if he does screw it up worse thant it is now the dems are cooked for many many years.......remember a far left candidate has never won the presidency ....and he is far left ....the country is centrist as a whole ........thats why the far left didnt like bill because he governed from the center.....extreme left or extreme right isnt going to straighten out this country

Ed - what a concept - listen to the candidates' words instead of their supporters' spin of those words. I agree - we should try that.

ty - I was introduced to hockey in '71 by a couple of college buddies from Buffalo (really, we didn't have much hockey in AL back then) when the Canadiens beat the Blackhawks - and absolutely loved it. For us it was beer, chips, pizza and, well, you know. They were certainly the cream of the leage for about 3 decades, and were dominant in the 70s, but it's been pretty dry since then, eh? (I do have to admit I was a huge Derek Sanderson and Bobby Orr fan, though - apologies to Cournoyer, Lafleur and Lemaire.)

When I think of Hockey, I think of those 3 brothers in "SlapShot"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i_D6oQO6b8

http://firedoglake.com/2008/04/02/mccains-intolerance-for-dissenting-iraq-views/

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/party-crashers-by-digby-apparently-jay.html

The problem with misrepresenting McCain's views is it gives the media an excuse to defend him. Something most are already inclined to do. It's what happened with the NY Times article. The issue of his relationship to special interests is now off the table because of unreliable nature of the original story.

Gordo,

I agree with you that the Reverends and others will be used in the general election. I wish the electorate wouldn't respond to that nonsense, but they do. The way I see it, those who are inlfuenced by these stories and right-wing radio probably wouldn't even vote for Senator Obama if his halo and wings were actually visible.

Those same folks see Hillary's horns even though she has none. (At least, I don't think she does.)

This year's Pig Book - 17 billion

http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer?pagename=reports_pigbook2008

tz..and that was exactly my point.. there ISNT a way for the country to get more screwed up... a bag of SALT could do better..

pogo..71 was indeed a very good year.. and apologies to orr and sanderson, but Cournoyer, Lafleur and Lemaire, and Savard, and Robinson, and and and and.. (really helped to get a good hate on for the Bruins that lasted decades tho, pogo haha) we've got a great young goalie this year.. can't wait!

ty, re: your 9:25 post - PLEASE don't ask that kind of question. It may not go unanswered and we really don't want to know.

kc, as usual, you make a valid point.

There's quite a difference between Obama's strike force and McBush's 100 of occupation. McBush should be more careful when he spouts his war loving rhetoric. Comparing Iraq to Japan or Germany is just about one of the most stupid things I've heard a politician say.

Great news on the Lee Hamilton endorsement, shame he's not a SD.

The Official Kentucky Derby site is now up

http://www.kentuckyderby.com/2008/contenders

The horses currently listed in Derby trial stakes races.

On the right side are several analysts - just click on their name to pull down their picks

I'll start asking for your picks in two weeks.

Words matter.

The Official Kentucky Derby site is now up

http://www.kentuckyderby.com/2008/contenders

The horses currently listed in Derby trial stakes races.

On the right side are several analysts - just click on their name to pull down their picks

I'll start asking for your picks in two weeks.

New York Sen. Hillary Clinton holds a 50 - 41 percent lead over Illinois Sen. Barack Obama among likely Pennsylvania Democratic primary voters and runs better against Arizona Sen. John McCain, the likely Republican nominee in Pennsylvania, Florida and Ohio, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today.

This compares to a 53 - 41 percent lead in a March 18 survey by the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University. In general election match ups of the three largest and most important swing states in the Electoral College, the survey finds.
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x2882.xml?ReleaseID=1164

They are only holding one race, no matter what this site may think when it hiccups ... too many julips I guess.

We've noted before that Obama's policy of not taking money from lobbyists is a bit of hair-splitting. It's true that he doesn't accept contributions from individuals who are registered to lobby the federal government. But he does take money from their spouses and from other individuals at firms where lobbyists work. And some of his bigger fundraisers were registered lobbyists until they signed on with the Obama campaign.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obamas_oil_spill.html
The campaign that will tell any lie use any distortion is the campaign that will do anything to win.
But they must also take responsiblity for the destruction caused by the lies.

Craig is right of course. We also certainly used military force in Germany and Korea taking far more losses than in Iraq. Here is the problem for Democrats. Back after 9/11 (and even before) many Democrats including Biden, Kerry and Clinton saw where Saddam was going. The interrogation by Piro and the secret recordings of Saddam's cabinet meetings explain how Saddam was going to restart his WMD programs and use the terrorist network to further his aims against Israel and the region. He was never fooled by the nuclear intentions of Iran.

So do people including Power, Lake and Zbig advocate a genocidal maniac like Saddam rebuild his weapons through sanctionless export of oil and advance his stated intentions against Israel and his neighbors? Should we ever wait until our armed forces face significant threats? I know Pats and Wendy seem to object to the idea of removing Saddam in the first place. I respect their views, but if we can't consider removing a dictator who tried to murder a President, claimed and once invaded territory of his neighbor, supported terrorists against Israel, used WMD on his own populations, did not prove he destroyed known WMD and invited the Russians in to defend against US Air Power (how do you think our stealth F-117 was the first downed air craft?), then aren't you advocated a no pre-emption policy? While I vigorously agree that Bush made a mess of pre-emption, many Democrats agreed with regime change in iraq and Clinton had Zinni draw up the plans. Many now say that should we ever get attacked, we'll just wipe out the attacker. But of course you have to know who the attackers is and our WMD forsensics may NEVER be that good. The Don Corleone theroy of retaliations just doesn't work unless the foe is more rational like the Soviets. Biden, Kerry, Clinton and even Obama pledged once that Iran should never get the bomb. Has the Democratic position changed into waiting for the shit to hit the wall?

It seems this is the dividing line between Democrats and Republicans and even between Clinton and Obama. OBL does not have the capacity to make WMD. Pakistan does, Iran does, Saddam did, Syria does and many Arab States want to get them. Democrats need to be a bit more realistic, unless they wish to wait until Quds helps FARC via Chavez, Syria and Iran manage to pull of their efforts. For years the Left said Gaddafi was not building WMD in those huge desert tunnels. He was.

The threats I mention are the world's problems. We need to work things out with the Russians and place some international muscle behind the threats I mentioned. Part of that push is the US having a big stick ready. From a centrist view, both the Republicans and Democrats go too far in their positions. The invasion of Iraq, while removing one threat, did not deal with the rise of another. Had Bush listened to others and Iraq transited to stability in a more graceful manner, would we even be having this discourse? The horrible mistake was not pre-emption, but the timing based on bad Intel and political considerations coupled with a bogus phase four plan. The alternative of doing nothing may very well been the disaster Biden predicted in 2002 when he thought with sanctions lifted Saddam would be on his way to the bomb by now.

Shall we invade Pakistan to find OBL? Shall we let the MUllahs get the bomb? Do we care, or will we just nuke others when we get hit?

As I said, Craig is right Shelia. Even Jon Stewart knows what would happen in Iraq if we just pulled out. This was a poorly executed mess, but the extremism we run from now, will be the extremism that follows us. The Taliban has just set their conditions for negotiating with the Gucci government of Pakistan -end relations with the US. That is their position in Afghanistan too. For all the blasts I've made on Zbig's performances, he clearly agrees with his mentor Huntington that there is a huge clash of civilizations going on. He might want to pit one extremist against the other, but they're not that stupid anymore. This retreat from an active role was never a core belief of Democrats. It was not Adams view or Jefferson and Whashington advocated isolation in his Farwell Speech so America had time build a military force and consolidate our holdings here before getting sucked into an international mess.

Certainly occupation and nursing Democracy is better than Obama's wild air strikes that rarely work without on the ground intelligence. While I share the end game with you all -a world at peace,, how we get there does involve traditional foreign policy and part of that was staying in Germany, Korea, Japan and Bosnia for decades. Our presense after WW2 kept the Soviets out of Greece, Iran, Turkey, South America and even Africa. If the majority see the Democrats advancing a starkly unReaganesque view of action and advocacy , then this favors McCain. Reform, reform, reform is a far better message. At the end of the day, what was really bad about removing Saddam was our pathetic planning of the post-Saddam reality, not removing a clear future threat. I do not want our troops facing the dangers later posed by a dictator or regimes armed to the teeth. Do you?

Just my morning thoughts...

Deal Lard:
I'll Root for your Royals except when they play the Yankees, I also like Phillies, Cubs too.
Okay now lets play ball lol.

Is Obama going out of his way to lose the Reagan Democrats...
--Hint to Obama deep six the twinkle toes pinky extended style of bowling and ummmmmmm Barack this is ummm well classified never mention you will get rid of the bowling alley in the White Hoiuse Reagan Democrats are you know taough guys the guys that wear construction helmets and baseball caps that say "KAT" in the front torn faded "dungerees" [they never call them jeans] construction boots steel toe... five o'clock shadow, have a beer out of a bottle and bite the cap off with the teeth. You know, the "Stone Cold Steve Austin" kind of crowd that when they see someone bowl a gutter ball they wanna open a can of "whoop butt" :-)) not your kind of people Barack

Not the pinky extended latte drinking perfectly manicured fingernailed levi docker or three piece brooks brothers crowd you're used to Barack

--Heather :-))

Interesting article about "low key" Howard Dean and how he isn't being the forceful leader the Dems need to clean up the mess they are in: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/us/politics/02dems.html?ref=politics

sorry for typos...
I added a little cooking sherry to the tomato sauce it has diminished my negligable typing skills
--Heather:-))

EdVB

Those same folks see Hillary's horns even though she has none. (At least, I don't think she does.)

Not as far as you know, right?

Like when Hillary said Obama wasn't a Muslim as far as she knew.

Hillary Clinton, 60 Minutes, and the Muslim question
by Eric Boehlert

Less than one second. That's how long it took Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton to answer, "Of course not," to Steve Kroft's question on 60 Minutes about whether she thought Sen. Barack Obama was a Muslim. You can time it yourself by watching the clip at YouTube.

Still, that didn't stop MSNBC's Chris Matthews from complaining (or anon p)
http://mediamatters.org/columns/200803110002

The trashing of Obama's bowling prowness is silly and I agree with K from last night. I'm not sure Bush would know to release the bowling ball from his hand when he rolled it. I heard he has a hard time riding a bike sometimes and we all know how expert Cheny is with a shot gun....LOL

Barak doesn't need to be so manly, he has his wife.

Okay, cheap shot, but she does irritate me so.

Let's have a bowl-off between Hillary, McCain and Obama. Winner takes all. No takers? Maybe a Decrapalon?

EdVB------------------------

The damage to Obama would come from the loss of swing-voters. Combine that with Hillary supporters who refuse to vote for Obama - he is in trouble. I've heard radio talk show hosts and callers so angry about Wright's rants that they can hardly speak. Most of you here probably have not heard long clips of the Rev - it is really, really shocking. During the Clinton years, I never heard such anger and hate from hosts and callers about the Clintons. By comparison, Hillary looks good to these people. Some have even said it is her patriotic duty to stay in the race and try to defeat Obama. Many have come to admire Hillary's toughness. Hard to believe, but some right - wingers say they would vote for Hillary over McCain.

kgc...

She did say as far as she knows. Post the whole piece. She could have just said no he is not. She did not have to add the qualifier later as far as I know. That would have ended it, however she chose to add the as far as I know qualifier.

Craig:

"If that’s Obama’s idea of new politics, it sure looks a lot like the old variety."

Gimme a break!! Clinton - and almost every other Democrat who discusses John McCain brings this up.

I agree it is a distortion - but hey - McCain used a poor choice of words and he is going to be hurt by it.

At this point, the Dems may be beating a dead horse - but to single out Obama for this - seems a bit outrageous....

Many have come to admire Hillary's toughness. Hard to believe, but some right - wingers say they would vote for Hillary over McCain.

that's ridiculous.

Heather

Just looked, my cap has "CAT" on the front. The one that I like and my wife doesn't is hunter camo with "Shaw" on the front. The thing I really like about both caps and other hats I have with the names of lumberyards on them was the price. They were free.

Jack

Posted by: anon-paranoid | April 2, 2008 10:27 AM

after she was asked the same questions si times
the whole thing is there
you should take a look before you spout baloney
what a load of crap

At this point, the Dems may be beating a dead horse - but to single out Obama for this - seems a bit outrageous....

He's the one who made the statement.

Yep, Gordo...I know some Repubs that would vote for Hillary over McCain. Meeks couple with Wright is a general election mess Obama handled badly and still does. There are other problems as well. Imagine if Independents who voted for Obama months ago, knew what they know now? Would the results be the same? One thing is for sure, this caucus thing, excluding Mi And Florida and the media spin has not simply let all the Democratic voters have their say. They will come November.......

And lets all play clips from Hagee, Robertson, Falwell and the rest of those hate mongers. We could even through in Swaggart, Jim Baker and the rest of all their ilk.

Yep, Gordo...I know some Repubs that would vote for Hillary over McCain. Meeks couple with Wright is a general election mess Obama handled badly and still does. There are other problems as well. Imagine if Independents who voted for Obama months ago, knew what they know now? Would the results be the same? One thing is for sure, this caucus thing, excluding Mi And Florida and the media spin has not simply let all the Democratic voters have their say. They will come November.......

Max I thought you were smarter than that, but comparing Iraq to Germany, Japan, or Korea is just dumb! You can spin this anyway you want, it just doesn't hold up historically and it certainly doesn't hold militarily. In none of those cases did military action spark a religious civil war as it has in Iraq.

The war against Japan and Germany was not only morally defensible but was also legal, Iraq is neither. Japan had attacked us, Germany declared war against us. Iraq has done neither. Korea was an action that had UN backing, the Iraq war was does not. Also the people of South Korea welcomed our involvement, they weren't kidnapping our soldiers and beheading them for PR purposes. Max if you don't want people to think you're a repug in sheeps clothing, don't defend the stupid war mongering plans of McBushCo. Just because Hillary and Craig feels comfortable building up McBush at the expense of Democratic nominee doesn't mean you should because it helps your candidate, it doesn't.

On a recent conference call with reporters, Howard Wolfson, Clinton’s bulldog operative, mentioned four times in two minutes that John McCain “wants to be in Iraq for 100 years.”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9207.html

“Sen. McCain would gladly accept the torch and stay the course, keeping troops in Iraq for up to 100 years if necessary,” Clinton said. “That in a nutshell is the Bush-McCain Iraq policy – don’t learn from your mistakes, repeat them.”

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008/03/clinton_mccain_would_keep_troo.html

kgc...

She still added the qualifier. No matter how many times she was asked she could have just kept saying no he's not, she didn't.

And I did see the interview. He was looking for something to use over and over again and she gave it to him.

Obama
Lie and Liars defending the lies and then lying about the statements of others.

Sturgeone,

"right - wingers say they would vote for Hillary over McCain. That's rediculous"

Maybe even the right wingers are ready for tough diplomacy rather than drop bombs talk later.

Obama and supporters are whining about the way he is being represented in the media. I thought he was the candidate of suck it up and no complaining

Looks like a lot of whining to me WATB

Heather,

the hat is spelled CAT and advertises Caterpillar. Here is a link to show you what CAT does.

http://www.cat.com/cda/layout?m=8703&x=7

One of my wifes cousins is married to the western states sales manager. he does quite well thank you.

Yo soy un demócrata amarillo del perro.

Yo soy Hussein Horsedooty!

Brian,

Did Germany actually declare war on the United States?

I'm not challenging you, just wondering if there was a declaration.

You know, I should have just googled first.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/germany-declares.htm

ET

German and Italy on the same day

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/11/newsid_3532000/3532401.stm

oh and I have never heard of anyone south of the Mason/Dixon line calling jeans anything other than jeans or the trademark name of the jeans. Like Levi's or Wranglers Dungarees Please

Yo soy un demócrata amarillo del perro.

Yo soy Hussein Horsedooty!

Looking to honor the forty-third President of the United States of America, George W. Bush, the recently formed Presidential Memorial Commission of San Francisco is looking to change the name of the Oceanside Wastewater Treatment Facility. It seems the group would like to rename the SF Zoo adjacent facility to the "George W Bush Sewage Plant."
http://sfist.com/2008/03/31/presidential_me_1.php

"She could have just said no he is not. "

Anon -- I heard that entire interview, and she immediately said he was NOT a Muslim. The interviewer kept on and on and on, and she unfortunately kept trying to answer. She should have just told him to STFU. But that is how interviewers "make news."

Yes Tom Germany did, they had a mutual defense treaty with Germany.

AP

That "As far as I know" is pure "gotcha" and should be slammed by anyone with a brain. The look she has says it all. It was pure "what do you want me to say other than No .... Is there something I don't know ... help me out here"

Anyone who says she meant to imply he was Muslim should be suspected of dirty tricks and instantly disbelieved no matter what else they say.

Hi Jamie... yah, 5 days after the attack on Pearl Harbor. I would guess this was because the USA decided to enter the war after Japan's assault on Pearl Harbor? I do agree that the USA was justified for it's entry into WWII. Of course what we were not justified for was the creation of the internment camps for Japanese-American citizens. If anyone is interested in reading what young Japanese-American men did to try and prove their patriotism, please read John Okada's novel "No-No Boy". It is such a great read. http://www.amazon.com/No-No-Boy-John-Okada/dp/0295955252

I found part of Germany's statement interesting. Were they saying that the USA declared war on them first and they did nothing to provoke it? Historians?

"Although Germany on her part has strictly adhered to the rules of international law in her relations with the United States during every period of the present war, the Government of the United States from initial violations of neutrality has finally proceeded to open acts of war against Germany. The Government of the United States has thereby virtually created a state of war.

The German Government, consequently, discontinues diplomatic relations with the United States of America and declares that under these circumstances brought about by President Roosevelt, Germany too, as from today, considers herself as being in a state of war with the United States of America.

Accept, Mr. Chargé d'Affaires, the expression of my high consideration.

December 11, 1941"

From: http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/germany-declares.htm

Obama overtakes Clinton in PA
Raleigh, N.C. – Barack Obama has taken the lead over Hillary Clinton 45-43 in
Pennsylvania, according to the newest survey from Public Policy Polling.
It’s a remarkable turn around from PPP’s last Pennsylvania poll, conducted two and a
half weeks ago, that showed Clinton with a 26 point lead in the state. That poll was
released at the height of the Jeremiah Wright controversy and the day before Obama’s
major speech on race in Philadelphia. Obama has been trending upward in national
polling and in many state level polls since then and this survey reflects that pattern.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Penn_Release_040208.pdf

Brian, if you want to cast all who supported regime change and removing Saddam for the numerous reasons I listed as Republicans, that is your right. It is not the truth. You pass over the problems of leaving Iraq unstable by falling back on the idea that the invasion was illegal. I believe Congress authorized the use of force and the illegal position is not the Democratic one. Did even Barak call our invasion illegal? Are you advocating that unless the UN approves, we can't act? Obama doesn't seem to agree with that either. His objection seems to be over the results of such an invasion, not that we have to wait for UN approval. Again, the reasons I listed happen to be what the majotiy of Democratic leaders felt in 2002.

We can disagree without calling ourselves dishonest about our political leanning. The litmus test you propose as to what consititues a Republican does not fly. Just because I supported regime change as did many Democrats once upon a time, does not make me a liar about my ideology. And what we would be facing with a Saddam in power would be far worse than the attrition we face today. If you want to discuss the legality of pre-emption in the post 9/11 world, I will be happy to do so. I believe China, India, Russia, the US, Israel and a few others are on record that that reserve this right without UN approval. And we all know what Obama said we should do back in 2004, should we find more evidence that Iran was building a bomb. I believe he suggested a nuclear strike on Iranian facilities which Hillary mentions if you go to the Congressional record. I can provide the link later if you wish. I also note that many Arabs and Iran did not oppose our invasion for good reason, yes? Did Saddam use WMD against his own people? I'm sure deep down in her heart, Power wanted Saddam removed too.

I will agree with you that Bush should have played a better game and manipulated a no-veto from France and Russia for a delay in our invasion and a return of inspections AND monitoring of weapon facilities. What we should have done is right there in Hillary's floor speech and was backed up by support from many Democrats and some Republicans.

Perhaps we should agree to disagree.

Got to make some money...you all have a great day and maybe I'll plague you all later. And P.S., this foreign policy issue is really my only sticking point with where the Democrats have run. On the great majority of other issues, I and many Independents I know side with Democrats. So please don't characterize my views on war and peace as the measure of partisanship. It is wrong to make such considerations a litmus test of loyalty. That loyalty should be to national self-interest and the advance of Liberal Democracy regardless of Republican crapfests.

Brian, if you want to cast all who supported regime change and removing Saddam for the numerous reasons I listed as Republicans, that is your right. It is not the truth. You pass over the problems of leaving Iraq unstable by falling back on the idea that the invasion was illegal. I believe Congress authorized the use of force and the illegal position is not the Democratic one. Did even Barak call our invasion illegal? Are you advocating that unless the UN approves, we can't act? Obama doesn't seem to agree with that either. His objection seems to be over the results of such an invasion, not that we have to wait for UN approval. Again, the reasons I listed happen to be what the majotiy of Democratic leaders felt in 2002.

We can disagree without calling ourselves dishonest about our political leanning. The litmus test you propose as to what consititues a Republican does not fly. Just because I supported regime change as did many Democrats once upon a time, does not make me a liar about my ideology. And what we would be facing with a Saddam in power would be far worse than the attrition we face today. If you want to discuss the legality of pre-emption in the post 9/11 world, I will be happy to do so. I believe China, India, Russia, the US, Israel and a few others are on record that that reserve this right without UN approval. And we all know what Obama said we should do back in 2004, should we find more evidence that Iran was building a bomb. I believe he suggested a nuclear strike on Iranian facilities which Hillary mentions if you go to the Congressional record. I can provide the link later if you wish. I also note that many Arabs and Iran did not oppose our invasion for good reason, yes? Did Saddam use WMD against his own people? I'm sure deep down in her heart, Power wanted Saddam removed too.

I will agree with you that Bush should have played a better game and manipulated a no-veto from France and Russia for a delay in our invasion and a return of inspections AND monitoring of weapon facilities. What we should have done is right there in Hillary's floor speech and was backed up by support from many Democrats and some Republicans.

Perhaps we should agree to disagree.

Got to make some money...you all have a great day and maybe I'll plague you all later. And P.S., this foreign policy issue is really my only sticking point with where the Democrats have run. On the great majority of other issues, I and many Independents I know side with Democrats. So please don't characterize my views on war and peace as the measure of partisanship. It is wrong to make such considerations a litmus test of loyalty. That loyalty should be to national self-interest and the advance of Liberal Democracy regardless of Republican crapfests.

YooHoo Wendy I'm still waiting to know how much you're willing bet on Hillary taking PA by 15%. Cat got your tongue, suddenly?

Sorry about the double post as though my posts aren't long enough...LOL

The Gallup Daily tracker tells a different story

Gallup Daily: Obama 49%, Clinton 45%

Today's numbers: Sen. Barack Obama leads Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton 49%-45% -- down from his 51%-43% lead yesterday and 52%-42% lead on Sunday. The latest numbers are based on Thursday-Monday surveys of 1,288 Democrats and "leaning" Democrats, and have margins of error of +/- 3 percentage points.

I saw your post the first time, no need to post it twice Max, it was no more sensible on the second posting.

Gordo,

I'll admit I may be over-estimating the judgment of those swing voters, but I'm hopeful that they don't use Limbaugh and Hannity as their sole source of information. There's no doubt that Senator Obama will again have to address the Reverend Wright issue if he's the nominee, but there are ways to do that without denouncing everything done by a guy who's been his minister and pastor for twenty years.

On the other hand, if the Senator can't point to some redeeming qualities in Reverend Wright, perhaps he should lose some votes.

The issue of Supreme Court appointments will probably be the deciding factor in how I vote, but I've got to tell you, I would have loved to see an issues-based general election campaign between Senators Clinton and McCain. Call me naive, but I really believe there's mutual respect there, and I don't see that with Obama and McCain.

Tom from wikipedea:

"These actions(1) prompted the United States, United Kingdom, China, and other Western Allies to declare war on Japan. Italy, Germany, and the other members of the Tripartite Pact responded by declaring war on the United States."

1 Pearl harbor attack and the attacks in Phillipines and other asian attacks all launched on the same day.

Jack

Public Policy Polling had the most accurate numbers of any company in the country for
the Democratic primaries in South Carolina and Wisconsin, as well as the closest
numbers for any organization that polled the contests in both Texas and Ohio.
Complete results are attached and can be found at www.publicpolicypolling.com.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Penn_Release_040208.pdf

The problem is, Max, the admin kept changing the reason they went in.. first it was WMD, then it was the demonic dictator, then it was regime change, then it was liberty and democracy, then it was to get McDonalds into Bhagdad, cmon, those guys never picked up a history book.. anyone, with the exception of Bill (not the funny one) Kristoll and his friends could have told 'em they'd be STUCK there for decades!

All you baseball fans. If you don't know about it, here is a place to keep track of all the games while they are in progress

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/scoreboard

The little diamonds actually show the runners as it happens.

"The little diamonds actually show the runners as it happens."

Cool

Jack

The govt. of Iraq has had over 3 years to get their act together with rather dismal results, why should feel staying another 3 months, 3 years, or 30 years is going to made any difference?

EdVB:

You are naive if you believe a general election campaign between Clinton and McCain would be about the issues.

Sorry - but between the Clinton attack machine and the right wing attack machine - the issues would take a back seat. And all of the stuff about Monica, impeachment, White Water, etc., which has really been a non-issue in the primary - would be all over the airwaves in a general election. (Sad but true since the media loves the gutter....).

From a discussion of the polls

"post speech bounce.....and numbers can change on a dime."

Obama has spent 10x as much spreading his oil company lies in Pa and NC.

An Obama McCain campaign won't be about issues because Obama has no issues. He just has rhetoric and not very accurate rhetoric at that.

Yes, Tom, Germany declared war on the US the same day - Dec. 11, 1941 - that the US declared war on Germany - which was 3 days after the US declared war on Japan, which in turn was the day after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. Those were the good old days when wars were actually declared by Congress.

That's pretty pathetic KC, even your hero Russ knows who's the best choice is.

ET

One of my relatives took over farming the land of a Japanese neighbor and returned the land to him following release from the camps. There were so many families abused for no crime other than being Japanese with horrible examples of prejudice. Here and there, friends tried to help wherever possible.

Great book and movie: Welcome to Manzanar

http://books.google.com/books?id=0nuR5MRVzaEC&dq=movies+about+japanese+internment&pg=PP1&ots=EzB8gr1Kdd&source=citation&sig=HPhzj4cafONMePsP5Q4bN-m917k&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS211US212&q=Movies+about+Japanese+Internment&sa=X&oi=print&ct=result&cd=1&cad=bottom-3results

Warren you omitted Bosnia from your list!

Warren,

"all of the stuff about Monica, impeachment, White Water, etc"

Warren, It didn't work the first time, why would it work any better as old warmed over attacks.
lol

You need to come up with something better than that.

Jack

After beating John Edwards in Iowa on Thursday, Barack Obama has decided to join him -- repeatedly poaching his opponent's themes, language, and even jokes.

"We shouldn't just be respecting wealth in this country -- we should be respecting work," Obama told an overflow crowd in a high-school gym today.

Edwards's 2004 presidential campaign was centered around the idea that the Bush administration had launched a "war on work" through tax cuts that offer incentives for investment over labor. "Hard work should be valued in this country, so we're going to reward work, not just wealth," Edwards said in accepting his party’s vice-presidential nomination at the Democratic’ convention in Boston. In this campaign, he has sharpened his populist rhetoric, railing against greedy corporate CEOs who are waging war on working people and the middle class.

Since arriving in New Hampshire Friday, Obama has borrowed Edwards's favorite verb by bragging that he had "fought" as a community organizer and civil rights lawyer, and conceding that "insurance companies and drug companies will not give up their profits" -- which Edwards asserts repeatedly to ridicule Obama's talk of conciliation. Obama repeatedly invoked those interests, as well as "big oil and big insurance," common villains in Edwards speeches.
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/01/obama_borrows_f.html

I'd rather have the real deal then someone who speaks the words but has no idea what they mean.

Brian

Bosnia is only of interest to the Koolaid drinkers and those that cater to them.

Jack

Oh brother KC, trying to attack me by invoking Edwards is really childish. What next "I'm rubber, you're glue". You're losing, deal with it like an adult instead of a 12 y/o.

Jack:

Listen - I am not saying whether it will work or not. I am just saying the right wing fanatics are going to be pounding that issue. And if Clinton got the nomination - it would be a distraction that she would have to deal with.

Just because it bores Democrats - does not mean it will magically go away...

And I sure as hell did not "come up with" that issue...

" then it was to get McDonalds into Bhagdad"

Ha! Good one Tylenol!

Must be drinking a lot of Koolaid at Hillary's campaign headquarters, they were still trying to spin it as of yesterday. Oh how she lies, and lies, and lies. Wake up and smell the coffee, it's not the Bosnia lies that is so troubling, it just reminds the public at large who the real Clintons are. It's a good thing.

Wiki's comment is a little misleading, Jack - the UK had declared war on Germany more than 2 years before Pearl Harbor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war

We were a latecomer into the war.

How to Start Your Own Country in Four Easy Steps

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4217

A little fun with some real information.

Jack

yee haw, Obama raised 30 million in March!

Jack:

It seems you have mastered the Clinton strategy - dismiss any negative stories out-of-hand and move on to something else.

It can be very effective - as long as people allow you to get away with it.

(btw, I think Bosnia hurts because Clinton has a credibility issue with some voters.)

Sorry if someone posted this - haven't read all the comments.

But got to love Jon Stewart

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rhM-5t8qgc

EdVB-----------------------

The 527's would saturate the country with attack/smear ads against Obama. This Rev Wright stuff is potent. Combine the Rev rants with the correct words / phrases (focus group tested) and the ads would move swing-voters away from Obama---no doubt about it. This is psychological warfare - people don't even realize they are being manipulated!

GORDO:

I do love irony....

"people don't even realize they are being manipulated!"

FNC Hannity/Colmes show last night, Lanny Davis was on and said he still had a lot of questions about the Wright association.

Hannity said history was made last night - because he agreed with a democrat, Lanny Davis, about the Wright story. Hannity thinks the Wright story has hurt BO more than the polls show. In fact he does not believe in polls and thinks ones on this subject are skewered.

Julie

Julie

Warren
Yesterday, Brian was bragging about the legs that the bosnia issue had. So I checked it out NYtimes nothing , Wapo nothing , McClatchy nothing, AP and they have everything, nothing.

Where was it an issue? Hardball.
As I said, the Koolaid drinkers and those that cater to them.

Now you have a bad habit of throwing stuff out like this.
"(btw, I think Bosnia hurts because Clinton has a credibility issue with some voters.)"

I think it would be interesting if you at least identified what voter. You know put a little something on the line.

Jack

Wednesday, April 02, 2008

Just Another Outpost

by digby
Responding to Obama's frequent mocking of McCain's suggestion that U.S. troops might remain in Iraq for 100 years, the Republican nominee-in-waiting said the Illinois senator failed to understand that America has kept forces in Korea, Japan, Germany and Kuwait long after wars in each country ended.
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/

The only story still being bandied about is Obama bowling like a girl. (And his lies in the current television ads and his distortion of McCain's remarks)

Jack:

You don't think Bosnia had any impact on the poll numbers?

I think "legs" with the voters is a lot different that the pundits beating us over the head with an issue.

And Clinton has a credibility issue with most voters outside Hillaryland (i.e., Independents and Democrats that are not in the tank for Clinton). The GOP is a lost cause when it comes to Hillary.

Anyways, it was not the Obama campaign that built the narrative that the Clintons will say or do anything to get elected. It is something me and a lot of voters, pundits and lawmakers felt about the Clintons before this primary race even got started.

Brian: "The govt. of Iraq has had over 3 years to get their act together with rather dismal results,"

Keep on blaming the Iraqis, Brian. And keep on with your smear campaign against Bill Clinton. It's people like you, Democrats snottily taking shots at a great Democratic president, who set the stage and gave us George W Bush. Thanks a lot. You'll be much happier when your Reagan-loving Obama is POTUS.

On the way home last night I happened to listen to 10 minutes (that's all I could stand, plus that's the time of my commute - convenient, no?) of Hannity talking about the issues the Repugs would raise against Obama if he is nominated. For the most part it is what we should all expect - they've all been mentioned here - Rezko, Wright, Ayers, etc.

What struck me though was that he said that he cannot understand why the Clinton campaign has not pulled these out and trashed Obama with them and that Obama better get used to defending those relationships because the GOP will be relentless in putting them out there until November - I imagine it will be through 527s for the most part.

Just some food for thought.

Julie:

"Hannity said history was made last night - because he agreed with a democrat, Lanny Davis, about the Wright story. Hannity thinks the Wright story has hurt BO more than the polls show. In fact he does not believe in polls and thinks ones on this subject are skewered."

Hey look - one of Clinton's biggest and most outspoken advocates has finally found someone to agree with him . . . Sean "freaking" Hannity.

Isn't this troubling to at least a few Clinton supporters?

How do you feel having Obama supporters agreeing with Dick Morris?

Jack you should be careful what you ask for.

A Bloomberg/Los Angeles Times poll conducted Feb. 21-25 found registered voters thought Senator John McCain, 71, the presumed Republican nominee, ``has more honesty and integrity'' than Clinton by a margin of 45 percent to 31 percent. Obama rated equally with McCain on th