Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Birthday Boy is first!

Well Craig,

Lets get this over with too because, thats a big stretch! He may be tall, but Obama's figure isn't as pronounced as Fondas.....

Ok, seriously do you think anyone who is still pissed off at Jane Fonda (they really need to get a life) would vote for McCain anyway? BTW Craig I'm getting a sense of resignation from you over who's going to be the Democratic nominee.

That should read 'vote for Obama anyway?"

I just did the first bowl of my 50s. Now I'm an old pot head!

I think it is said that because a person supports Hillary Clinton Obama supporters will castigate and try to humiliate you because you do not like or support the messiah Obama.

Some of us are enlightened and are not brainwashed by the guru maharajah Obama, some of us can see him for what he truly is.

I do not suffer from the white guilt complex that some do. I also do not feel that by voting for the first African I am somehow absolved from hmmmmm how did the messiah Obama put it...oh the "Original Sin" of slavery.

I tend to be a little more pragmatical about it if the best man for the presidency is African American thats great I will proudly vote for him, but Obama is not that man, at least by my standards

Once again the radical extremists in the Democratic Party the vocal minority will once again get their way and their candidate and once again our party will go down in flames and centrist democrats will have to suffer.

What Obama supporters cannot get through their heads is that A-M-E-R-I-C-A as a whole is Center-Right it not a bastion of liberalism but they cannot ever understand that .

But no problem, Obama and his megalomania and ego will risk hurting his own party out of ego arrogance and pride.

I love and respect Mario Cuomo but he had the class, grace, dignity and common sense to realize as a liberal he could not win the presidency and spared his party the turmoil of losing, he unlike the messiah Obama put his ego and pride aside.

All I can do now sit and watch with an aching heart as you extreme radicals destroy the Democratic Party
I know I will be hated and despised by the Obama supporters here. I'd rather be honest and stand by my principles and be hated, then be dishonest and be loved
So be it.

--Heather

From last thread; Air America host:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfdhWi5MILo

http://tcarter.blogspot.com/2005/04/forgive-jane-fonda.html

Heather,

Excellent post, 3:31, I agree wholeheartedly.

Huge clapping hand for you..

Julie

People who were too young or just never even saw Klute or On Golden Pond and either didn't know about or don't remember the Hanoi Jane days will learn to be pissed at Fonda if Barack is the nominee - the far righties certainly won't be changing their opinions but it's some of the tender middle that may be at risk. How much it might hurt Obama if at all will all depend on how often and how loud the taunts are. Them boys who produced the Swiftboat Ads are still around I'm sure, and they do make one mean ad.

And Craig, I expect that Nancy will come out and invoke memories of that great patriot and hawk Ronnie on behalf of Johnny to counter Jane.

"t not a bastion of liberalism but they cannot ever understand that ."

Plus, I noticed that most of the little twerps who now believe they speak for the party were the first to run from the word liberal and call themselves progressives.

One positive from this clusterf##ked primary season -- I'll bet a lot more women now will call themselves feminists.

Clair just gave Hillary a nice jab, well done Clair, well done.

OMG
Jimmy Cater hints at supporting Obama, LOL like there was any doubt... his National Security Adviser is helping his campaign and as we all no Zibig wont take a breath unless Jimmy says so.

MSNBC stop treating Americans like they are politically ignorant!

--Heather

The suspended Air America host (has she been fired now?) was Randi Rhodes.

Pogo,
If you're referring to a Reagan endorsement, it happened a couple weeks ago.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23797059/

Dear Patsi
Totally right on the mark :-))

Sincerely,
Heather

Oh, Brian, I don't thing anyone's mentioned--you don't get old-peoples' discounts at 50. All you get is the mantle of decrepitude with none of the benefits. Sorry having to break that to you.

Heather you may be the first person on the planet to call Lee Hamilton a "radical extremists".

Clair should get a nice jab. Maybe she would be a little less witchy.

I used to listen To Randi before she sold out Hillary for Obama I did not know she was fired. Yikes Pogo

--Heather

Air America host called them F__ W___s?

Fox Watchers?

Hey, birthday boy. Your dream ticket ain't gonna happen. So sorry.

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN0336718220080403?sp=true

Edwards says not this time.

It's ok Flatus, no one believes I'm as old as I am anyway.

Rez, I was aware of that - now they'll have to come up with ads invoking the ghost of Ronnie.

"no one believes I'm as old as I am anyway"

Most of us had you pegged as being in the middle of the "terrible twos"

And really, Flatus, how many times do you think Brian went to Bob Evans last year. I'm betting once is one more time than that happened.

From the Bill Simmons Mail Bag...

Q: I can confirm your buddy Sully's Twelve Percent Theory from the last mailbag (about mothers getting 12 percent crazier after each childbirth), although your Hillary Clinton example is wrong because it misses another key data point: Every time a man cheats on his wife, the wife loses another 33 percent of her sanity. So, you figure Hillary lost 12 percent from giving birth to Chelsea, 33 percent from Paula Jones, another 33 percent from Monica, and if you throw in a few more that we never found out about, she's operating at approximately minus-530 percent sanity these days, right?

-- John M., Providence, R.I.

SG: I'm Barack Obama, and I approve this message.

Brian,

you don't look a day over 49.

Yo soy un demócrata amarillo del perro.

Yo soy Hussein Horsedooty!

jamie, LOL!!!

First Thank You Julie thank you that compliment means a lot to me and I deeply appreciate it

Okay Brian you think you are clever but your dealing with a woman that cannot be intimidated. I never called Lee Hamilton a radical extremist. But Lee Hamilton is out of office and has nothing to lose by supporting Obama and by doing so absolving himself and having his "original sin" removed by supporting the messiah Obama.

Isn't it just sad that there is no Original Sin" of sexism its fine dandy and peachy keen to be sexist and trash and bash Hillary day after day month after month.

--Heather

Pogo,
For those swiftboat boys, Nancy would be taking the highroad.I would be looking more for step and fetch ads.

Craig

Vietnam is ancient history, Most voters in the US weren't born when we first got involved in Vietnam. That includes one presidential candidate.

I tried to find the Median voting age and found it to be 45 I don't know how reliable the number is but.........

At 55 I am either the last class that had to worry about the draft or next to the last.
I guess my point is there are not a lot of people still alive that worry about Jane Fonda.

Jack

Anti-missile defense.

Anti-missile defense systems kill arms reduction because the country ,(A), with the systems achieves a comparative advantage over the country, (B), without the systems.

The balance can be restored by country (A) eliminating a disproportionately large number of offensive weapons, or country (B) either deploying its own defense systems, or deploying increased numbers of offensive weapons.

The United States has reneged on an agreement that was of vital importance to the all inhabitants of this planet.

The U.S. argument that, despite their location, the defenses were only to protect against missiles from the Middle East is absurd.

Hmmmm
Edward not accepting Veep role interesting...I believe he sees the writing on the wall... Translation: Obama losing in general and and gearing up for a 2012 run

--Heather

Pogo I have a new dream team, it's Obama/Webb, and I have no idea who Bob Evans is.

Flatus , I was done with that topic, but like I said, with this move we've lost what little credibility we had on that issue.

Heather, perhaps so.

Brian's dream is America's nightmare

--Heather

Obama/Webb, huh? Interesting prospect, I guess. And somehow I'm not surprised about you not knowing Bob Evans - or as we call it around here "the Bob."

Fonda

There are enough of us Vietnam veterans around who view Ms Fonda's actions during her visit to North Vietnam as treasonous.

Treason is one of those crimes that I don't forgive.

It makes no difference that she is a fine actor.

Heather, you do crack me up. I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything - keeps me from having to clean the keyboard.

How odd the hall monitor is nowhere to be found.

Well I'm off to meet my crew for drinks, dinner and the opera, sorry heather you'll have to find someone else to try and taunt.

P.S. Seriously, I think you're nuts
Sincerely,
Brian

The problem with Webb as VP is that we need every Democratic senator we have. There is a good chance he would be repaced with a Republican in an election.

Besides he is going to have to do something to get the HRC supporters on board.

Jack

Brian may be confusing Sponge pants square Bob with Bob Evans lol

--Heather

Rez,

Lincoln Perry (Stepin Fetchit) was a brilliant performer. The character he created has been lambasted from all sides for perpetuating stereotypes and Ben Vereen caught holy hell for his dance tribute to him for his talent.

In real life he was a masterful performer who carved out a career in a very racist world

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepin_Fetchit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f69GdiSZ-NA

Brian Webster Dictionary:

turning pages...ah the "n's" n-a... n-e ahhh n-u

ok nuts= anyone offering intelligent rational opinions contrary to those of (*・_・)ノ⌒*Brain in NYC

Oh well thank you for the compliment Brian

Heather
:-))

Hi Jack,

See as how a Military type with deep knowlege is probably a good idea for both candidates this time, I can think of Wesley Clark, Jim Webb.....can you or FLATUS think of any other?

Chuck Hegal would be a great cross over.

The voting rate was higher among
the older citizen population than
the younger citizen population.
The rate for citizens 55 and older
was 72 percent in the 2004 presidential
election, compared with
47 percent among 18- to 24-yearold
citizens.

A key difference between these
age groups was registration. While
79 percent of citizens 55 years and
older were registered to vote in
2004, 58 percent of the younger
citizens were.

Young adults, especially
people in their twenties, are
the most transient, which may lead
to lower levels of registration
because moving usually requires
re-registering.5

Jamie-------------------------

Process thrusts panel in spotlight

"Twenty-five Democratic activists named to an obscure party committee face the prospect of doing what millions of primary and caucus voters across the country so far haven't — choose their party's presidential nominee.

A law school dean, a car dealer and a college student are among the 25 people appointed by Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean to the Convention Credentials Committee, a body that could swing the election when settling the brouhaha over seating Florida and Michigan's delegates.

The bulk of the 186-person committee will be chosen by the candidates, Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton, using a proportional formula that generally reflects the results of the primary contest — meaning neither one is expected to have enough votes to control it.

The committee is responsible for refereeing any questions regarding the seating of delegates and alternates that aren't resolved by the party's rules and bylaws committee. In most presidential election years, this means settling small disputes regarding individual delegates that have no bearing on the party's presidential nominee.

But the panel, which isn't expected to meet until July or early August, was thrust into spotlight after the Florida and Michigan Democratic parties last month abandoned plans to hold do-over primaries.

The committee still could avoid having to rule on the disputed delegates if the national party's rules and bylaws committee — the group that stripped Florida and Michigan of a combined 367 delegates after the states moved their primaries to January — reopens the case."

http://washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080402/NATION/823571737/1001

Dear Pogo

Don't know if cracking you up is good or bad or perhaps not taking what i say seriously.
It's all good
Time will prove me right or wrong,
We will see
Sincerely,
Heather

Sheila, the other Sen Kerrey comes to mind. But, Webb has the most passion.

See, Jack. To you Vietnam may be ancient history, but to me it's not, and I'm only 2 years older than you. I believe the Fonda connection could have legs. Think of it this way - taking Virginia, Illinois and New York as examples, 59% of the VA Dem voters were 45 or older, with 25% over 60; Illinois was 55%, 23% respectively; and NY was 66%, 30%. Ohio looked like IL, and you can guess that FL had may more older voters at 72%, 39%. So that average age you cite may be right, but between about a fourth and a third of voters are 60 or older - and you can bet they remember Vietnam, were either for it or against it, and won;t likely be very dismissive of Jane's actions back then. To some it won't make a damn. To others, it will.

Craig,

Even with the republicans....jack is right. The Jane Fonda deal concerning her vote is a nothing....

Of course maybe 10% of the population is going to fuss in the general. But 90% of that ten will be republican also and extreme right wingers.

I just think we are all desparate enough to wave this pesky nat away and squish it!

I don't particularly like what Fonda did too, but its vietnam and this is not. This is a kettle of fish that Jane Fonda hasn't touched except for her vote.

Flatus,
Are you suggesting NK, Iran or even the build-up of Chinese ballistic missiles was promoted by our missile defense? That's a page out of Biden's book. While I understand that missile defense for Europe doesn't target present threats, no doubt eventual Iranian missiles will be considered a deterrent factor for the Mullahs against retaliation for their likely sponsorship of terror. Missile defense in Europe does negate that.

I also wouldn't be too certain that China isn't advancing missile defense. They do have programs that go back decades. The gorilla in the room will turn out to be rail and laser technology that all sides will study regardless of the number of missiles. The Russians also have violated some of the strategic understandings with new designs for warheads. And missile defense can be used against most air borne threats which are also growing and not a consequence of missile defense. Our carrier groups are sitting targets. Silent subs introduce coastal threats and NK has remote launched medium range missiles designed to fire from cargo containers or other sea platforms. It would be crazy not to keep working on missile defense. I think the South Koreans and Israelis, even the Saudis and Indians see that.

Your comment about Europe does make some sense, but it will take years to deploy missle defense, so if we want to be ready, how can we not start now? Russia does not want to reduce missile numbers because that is their major deterrent. Again, to conclude missile defense provokes more missiles over-looks the factors pushing Syria, Iran, NK and China. Such considerations have neither stopped India and Pakistan who likely have neutron bombs because of their proximity to each other in case of a tactical exchange. I would however, take your point about Europe seriously and add that we had better guard against cruise missiles, drones and medium to short range missiles if we want to protect theaters including the US against the more likely clandestine threats. NO nation is about to lauch pre-emptive missile strikes except perhaps Hamas and Hizb'Allal.

As far as Fonda and Carter, has one ever witnessed a candidate distance himself from so many Liberal endorsements and personal friends? Fonda was hanging out with Viet Cong and not too long ago apologized for that. Again, there will be that Woods Fund connection where one group at least supported the Viet Cong and received funding when Obama served as a director. Carter and Zbig....hhhmmmm. MCCain will ask if we want Reagan or Carter. Yes, Heather, it didn't have to be like this. Trash Clinton and restore Carter, the true friend of Israel and defender of Western Hegemony.....ha

Heather - I look for humor in everything, and I often find it in your posts - and I'm pretty sure I know when it was intentional. I thoroughly enjoy most people's posts here, and yours are among some of my favorites - a high compliment given how much of a Crawford whippersnapper you are.

FLATUS,

Bob Kerry is a great one..,Medal of Honor winner,,but he's been out for a while and while that is a good thing....wasn't there some slime there? Or was the just republican slime.....can't remember.

While I believe in free speech and think Randi Rhodes has every right to support Obama in any way she sees fit...and of course express her views about Hillary...this is just a good example of how many Obama supporters are the complete opposite of what the profess to love about the candidate they support.

"Randi Rhodes Suspended; Calls Hillary 'Big F---ing Whore'"

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2008/04/03/randi-rhodes-suspended-calls-hillary-big-f-ing-whore

I know Rachel Maddow is also in the tank for Obama (even though she pretends not to be) but at least she has some class about it and is genuine. I get mad at Maddow for pretending to still be unbiased in the race but you have to respect that she's not going off the deep end like poor Randi obviously has.

I don't know if there's an effect or not, but I do know that when I first opened the site page and caught the name Jane Fonda I was SO relieved it wasn't Hillary she endorsed.

No excuses for Randi Rhodes who I have enjoyed everyday.

I wondered where she was.....but she deserves to be fired. Nuff said.

Gordo

The point is that all of these people are legal delegates, appointed according to party rules as established for many years.

You may perceive favortism this time around, but it is not some vast conspiracy to do some esoteric bidding of unknown or arguable powers. It is just the rules.

You don't like it? Change the rules.

" caught the name Jane Fonda I was SO relieved it wasn't Hillary she endorsed"

Heather,

Me too. You may not agree, but I was almost equally relieved that Pres. Carter might endorse or at least support Sen. Obama.

The starry eyed wing of the Democratic party are ganging together.

Bob Kerrey was slimed by the Obama campaign.

Another Democrat demonized.

NYU booed both Bob Kerry and McCain. There was much slime in that, yes? Memos form Obama staffers prove Obama started the racial sliming, yet he claimed his campaign had nothing to do with it. Did Michelle blast Clinton along racial lines, or was I imagining things Shelia? Obama bascially trashed the Clintons and called her untrustworthy as he lied about JFK bringing him to the US in the fifties. How was that not a lie greater than the Bosnia spin? Look at the Million Man March. Obama has less difficulty working with known racists than centrists like Bob Kerry. And tell me what kind of team he has assembled with Zbig, Malley and McPeak and likely support from Carter?

How realistic is it to think America WON'T see a Carter term coming? Brian likes that, but from Obama's talk about Reagan, even he should start having some fears. Will he simply say people should not judge him by his close associations and obvious endorsements?
How many kisses of death can he survive?

How many kisses of death can he survive?

Posted by: Maxtrue | April 3, 2008 4:51 PM

Well.....as long as you've brushed your teeth Max, I'm sure we'll all be all right ;0)

Many, many years ago I was is a dispute with another employee at a radio station. He just adored Microsoft and I was equally adment about Apple

My contention: MS was for people who liked to play with computers and Apple was for people who liked to get a job done.

Barack Obama is Bill Gates. Hillary Clinton is Steve Jobs.

Showy bells and whistles vs. ease and competence

Gotta run, it's been fun. later, hon.

Oh That's right.

Bob Kerry mistakenly said that Obama was taught in a Madrasa.......igniting the Muslim War......I remember now.

He would be a great pick for Senator Clinton as Veep, but not so much for Senator Obama.

TTFN Pogo!

Shall we try adamant

In 2007 Jane Fonda made an appearance at a DC peace rally and some vets went ballistic to protest her involvement. Like Patsy I'm glad that she came out for Dowd's "effete" wonder.

toast

I don't think a Fonda endorsement is going to hurt him any more than him being black will.

I brush regularly Shelia, but reading the daily info on Obama, I often find a bad taste in my mouth. Don't worry, I'm not planning to kiss anyone here.

is about the best I can do.........

Bob Kerry ignited the Muslim War?, I must have missed that one.....

The Kennedy clan didn't help Obama in MA. I think everyone over rates endorsements anyway.

Sen, Barack Obama, attended a "secular madrassa" as a child.

Kerrey was in the process of lauding Obama's capacity to connect with the Muslim world when he made the claim, which has been discredited.

"I've watched the blogs try to say that you can't trust [Obama] because he spent a little bit of time in a secular madrassa," the Nebraska Democrat said on the Situation Room with John King. "I feel quite opposite. I think it's a tremendous strength whether he's in the United States Senate or whether he's in the White House."

In January, CNN reported that allegations that Obama was educated in a madrassa were inaccurate, after Insight Magazine had first spread the rumors. Weeks ago, the Washington Post resurfaced the story in a front page article that painted the madrassa rumors as part of a greater smear campaign against Obama. The paper was widely criticized for failing to point out that the allegations were proven false.

In a technical sense, Kerrey's words were not entirely untrue. According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, the term madrassa means a "Muslim school, college or university that is often part of a mosque." And Obama has acknowleged that as a child in Indonesia he did attend a "Muslim school."

Some Obama supporters have asked why former Sen. Bob Kerrey, D-Neb., who endorsed Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., today, mentioned her opponent Sen. Barack Hussein Obama's middle name in remarks published in The Washington Post. (LINK)

"I like the fact that his name is Barack Hussein Obama, and that his father was a Muslim and that his paternal grandmother is a Muslim," Kerrey is quoted as saying. "There's a billion people on the planet that are Muslims, and I think that experience is a big deal."

carter will hurt him with the jewish vote//////

he said in his book the jews were performing aparthied on the pallestinions

Rex,

I think your right. The best endorsements are still the American people.

Chex Sheila, you got a spasm in the left little finger.. :-)lol. . or maybe you hunt and peck like me.

Your Right WTF.

its a big deal.

Dear Pogo:
Thank you, You added some joy to to my life today and truly appreciate it.
Its been another depressing Hillary Bashing day.

In any event Hillary supporters my take solace in Michael Barone's article very well written and researched...
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/barone/

LOLOLOL Woops @ Sheila....

I've got the frustrations and problems of "One Life To Live" on the mind. lol Alas, "REX" doesn't know he's a father....

;0) I haven't watch the whole winter, of course. ;0)

SO please forgive me.

One more endorsement for BHO! I have quit watching anything political...I have been depressed since the Richardson endorsement. It is like a flood. Why does the thought of a BHO presidency make me so unhappy?

So, I solved my problem...no news, is great news. But, I cannot resist reading Trail Mix.

Bob Evans is a man who made sausage and started a restaurant. Brian's 50 and still getting high?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3udrLmxijOE

Patsi,

Curiously, Why do think she didn't?

"Jane Fonda I was SO relieved it wasn't Hillary she endorsed."

The Obama attacks on Kerrey seem childish and petty.

All I have to say about Randi Rhodes is that what she did was rude vile and disgusting and certainly beyond free speech.

there is an old saying that women are there own worst enemies and Randi Rhodes just proved that theory correct.
I quit listening to her months ago when she went in the tank for Obama when she lied to her audience saying that she would not endorse anyone and stay neutral and support the Democratic nominee...so much for her word

--Heather

Shelia, its only a big deal if you're a candidate trying to run away from the perception your administration will Carter all over again. Hillary doesn't have that baggage. First Bush/Nixon, then hearings calling for a reform of government policy while more crap unrolls on the international front. People bashing America for far more reasons thatn Nixon/Bush. Our adversaries feel they're winning. The economy in the dump. Amerca so divided and angry they elect Obama to move in the opposite direction. But of course, the opposite direction isn't the answer, a different direction is.

So as I have said, vote for Obama if you want a new spin on Carter. Hell, Carter had some good qualities and is no dummy. Maybe someone else will urinate on the lawn, but the perception as troubles unfold globally is that Obama is just the set-up for a new Reaganism in 2012 which I do not think is a particularly wonderful idea.

I was hoping for a Black RFK and it will depress the nation to get a Black Carter. Yes, the Jewish vote is getting mighty questionable. Maybe McCain won't have to campaign. He can just sit back and watch the Democrats disintergrate. I'm with K on this one. The Clintons should take a long vacation after the primaries if Hillary loses. THe DLCers have been purged. Let Meeks, Wright, Jackson, Carter, Zbig, McPeak, Malley, Rice, Goolsbee, Fonda, Ted, Casey, Leahy, Pelosi, Reid, have their day. Someone else can pick up the pieces later.

ATM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080403/ap_on_re_af/zimbabwe_elections

"Bill Keller, executive editor of The New York Times, said Times correspondent Barry Bearak, a winner of a 2002 Pulitzer Prize, was one of those taken into custody. "An American consular official who visited him at the central police station reported that he was being held for `violation of the journalism laws,'" Keller said."

Here are the numbers for the 2004 election from the census folks.

2004 election

Voters
total voting----------- 125,736,000

Older than 55------- 44,438,000

All Veterans--------------17,367,000

Veterans are less than 15% of the voters.

http://www.census.gov/prod/2006pubs/p20-556.pdf

Us old farts are in a distinct minority of the voting population.
If there is a record turnout of young voters then look for it to get worse.

Jack

Dinner Time with my daughter
I'm tired today I had all the Hillary bashing I can handle today.
I can tell you this, I will have a talk with my daughter and make sure that when she reaches adulthood she will not behave like Ms.Randi Rhodes and when she makes a promise to live up to it.
Unbelievable how all these people that support the messiah Obama with all of his preaching and moralizing he has the rudest supporters of and candidate I have ever seen
--Heather

Chris Dodd backtracks big time. Today he says,

In an interview with CNN's John Roberts, Dodd — a supporter of Barack Obama — said he thinks the race will end when "the candidates decide they can't go any further.

"The last thing you want to do is lecture candidates to get out of the race," Dodd also said.

Last week he said,

"Over the next couple of weeks, as we get into April, it seems to me then, that the national leadership of this party has to stand up and reach a conclusion," he added.

Jack,,

Very telling information. this will be the second year for the Youngsters voting. If this happens, I believe the batton will be officially passed.

then is up to them to pick up the pieces. Heck, my son has done 3 tours over there all ready. I think they should have a bigger say in their life or death decisions. just my opinion.

Dear Wendy:
I sent a reply to you...not sure if you received it if not I will resend
Wendy (･_･ )

Sincerely,
Heather

Someone else can pick up the pieces later.
Posted by: Maxtrue

I admire your posts. I posted weeks ago that BO is Carter only more divisive.

toast

The Vets....I thought we were 16%....who knew.

Shelia,
I deplore the situation your son finds himself in and I can understand the anger. I think FIASCO sums it up. Bush should have LISTENED to Hillary's floor speech in 2002. Had Saddam rearmed and sport WMD now, removing him would cost many more US lives than it has. Letting the region spin out of control also endangers future soldiers. Somewhere there is a line between stupidity and passivity.

My sympathy for you as you worry. I cannot express my contempt for Rumsfeld and others who dropped the ball. You don't play the Patriots without a game plan. If the game is so necessary to win you go in prepared and Bush will alawys be remembered for the stubborn incompetence with which he played this game. It took years before we applied the lessons of Vietnam. Just friggin amazing.

Where were the Republicans Frydaddy? They could have collectively demanded accountability and teamed with Democratic moderates to slow the stupidity. Sure McCain and Hagel shouted, but not loudly enough. Arrogance turned Iraq into the mess it is along with the venom of so many Iraqis who want to murder each other. I wouldn't have taken your son's life so lightly Shelia. Just wanted you to know that.....

I was confused by some peoples dislike of Former President Carter earlier. I mean, I thought maybe I had misunderstood Jiimy Carter's standing in the Democratic party. So I email some of my friends and one answered me with a nice comment.

"I admire Jimmy Carter. Strong military commander in the subs in the Navy after his time as President went home and started working with Habitat for Humanity. Has written several books has been to witness free elections. What more could he do? There were some things that happened when he was POTUS that were mishandled but was it really his fault? I don't know about that. Biggest problem is he is a genuinely nice guy

If more people had listened to Fonda, and fewer had listened to John Wayne, they never would have been suckered, like naive fools, into Bush's Iraq War mess.

What's worse, the John Wayne types (like McCain) don't even know how to get OUT of Iraq. They want "us" to stay there for 100 years.

And by "us" they mean "other people's kids."

Another much admired friend wrote this;

As I've said ad nausium, the two most honorable presidents in the last 50 years were Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter. Both faced daunting circumstances and both were in no-win situations. They both put their country before personal or party ambition. We are a better country for these two men.

Why Thank You Max,

I do appreicate your feelings.

And Nash,

I agree with you. The biggest problem with McCain? He really IS too old. His old Politics Undies are showing.

Sheila just off the top of my head,
2 things come to mind. the WWII vets are getting fewer and fewer.
Also we have had the volunteer army with longer enlistments than the draft army so there is less movement through the system.

I have a nephew in the Navy. as his mother said "Having a child in the military makes you pay a lot more attention to what the idiots are doing in Washington"

Jack

Wow jack, I just didn't think of a generational shift in LIFER's either. Good Point.

That mother echo's me and I was in myself. I remember being terrified when he enlisted because My Gut was telling me that IT was coming.

and of course, His daddy was a Seal....traditions and all that. Well I got a special forces sailor, but at least he's not a seal. ;0) one victory on that one. But live fire is still in play here so I want this over.

"Curiously, Why do think she didn't?"

I think Jane Fonda has been enamored of cultish-like behavior her entire life. This one was perfect for her.

"the two most honorable presidents in the last 50 years were Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter"

I have to agree.
I do have to add that Carter and Clinton have much the same problem.
They are the punching bags for both the Republican partisans and the Democratic left.

Jack

With all due respect to your email pals, Sheila, the Carter administration most assuredly paved the way for Ronald Reagan who single handedly did more to destroy the fibre of America than anyone before or since. Maybe even more than W.

Carter was a great guy -- I loved him -- but not a good administrator. And if you loved Carter, why did you vote Reagan in?

And Another for Carter;

I don't care if some people view Carter as a cantankerous old man. He's damn well earned it. The fact is that he's one smart hombre who has done a lifetime of service for his country and the world. If he'd have endorsed Hillary, I'd respect that. If he endorses Obama, I'd respect that. Either way, I respect President Carter

Nash you mischaracterize McCain's words as did Obama, but to Shelia's point.

Carter did in fact start some weapon programs that helped Reagan. Carter however, fumbled the ball in Latin America. He allowed Zbig to bait the Russians into Afghanistan and then simply armed OBL forming a coalition with the Saudis and Pakistanis who beheaded Russian soldiers. So much for human rights. Meanwhile, Pakistan sought the bomb as we bribed them to join us against the Russians. The idea was to let others fight our battles regardless of the consequences. Carter also pulled the rug from under the Shah without an adequate moderate party to take over, History has shown that he allowed a certain dovishness to unravel the Gulf and then left an unsupported Carter Doctrine as mere words for Reagan to actualize. And look at Reagan. He sold weapons to Iran (Was that okay Senator Hamilton?) and armed Saddam. He prevented the Isralis and India from taking out Pakistan's nuclear facility. I'll leave the Peace agreement between Eygpt out of it for the forces unleashed in Afghanistan eventually killed Sadat. Kissinger has a place here having forbid Israel to completely destroy the Egyptian army on the banks of the Suez. They traded land for peace and bought some time.

Carter did advance the idea of a rapid deployment force, but didn't give it much muscle. I am sure Carter is a pleasant guy. His take on Israel is slanted and he has said Darfur is not genocide. Does Obama agree?The point is that a repeat of his economic and foreign policies at this time would be harmful and quite possibly lead to another we-need-a-Reagan situation. Imagine the trashing of Obama as the new Carter coupled with Rezko and Wright. Can he really win with this? Add many angry Hillary supporters. This situation is exactly what I've be warning about with my pushing Hillary. Then again, at this point, Hillary getting the nod will anger the Obama supporters. Had Obama simply waited and became the VP, this mess would not have happened, yes? You may not have liked this option, nor he but Hillary was the front-runner for good reason. His decison to bolt the Senate and run was a poor choice. That's just my opinion. Now he can't bow out, nor can Hillary. What a mess and Shelia, I'm hardly laughing.

I respect your opinion Patsi.

We are both old enough to understand that when I emailed these people I said,

"I'm confused, some on the blog seem to not like Carter and I thought he was an elder statesman for the Democratic Party with many admirers. I'd like to know your opinion...is there something I don't understand?"

Exactly that.

I respect Clinton too....I'm not sure why you would always think I am being snarky

flatus:

There are plenty of Viet Vets (like me) who think Fonda was right.

40 years later and you STILL don't get it, do you? Fonda didn't cause us to "lose" the war in Vietnam. It was lost by the nitwits who planned and excuted it.

Just like Iraq.

If you want to look for for "traitors" today, how about Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell, and Rice?

And let's not forget the Republicans in Congress.

And the war-profiteers like Haliburton and Blackwater.

And Limbaugh and all the other right-wing gas bags.

Max,

I truely Appreciate your opinion.

However, I think the bottom line here is this; REALLY. Obama is strong enough (for better or worse) to accept Carter's endorsement and then run his own administration without Carter's immediate help.

Although I even saw Former President Carter have consultation meetings with Reagan and the first Bush while I was in the White House. This is what ALL Presidents do.......

LOL Althought I fear poor Dumya will be ignored in that exclusive group.

The "youth vote" in 2008 is 14%

There have been progressive increases since 2004.

The 2004 elections marked the largest increase in young voter turnout since 1972. Over 20 million young people ages 18-29 case a ballot (42 million were eligible to vote), an increase of 4.3 million voters. This was a 9 point increase in turnout over 2000, more than double that of any other age group. In 2004, there were more voters under 30 years old than voters over 65 years old.

Less then a third of the eligble young voters turn out even in 2008

Nash incorrectly quotes Flatus post in order to make a point.

Fonda

There are enough of us Vietnam veterans around who view Ms Fonda's actions during her visit to North Vietnam as treasonous.

Treason is one of those crimes that I don't forgive.

It makes no difference that she is a fine actor.

Posted by: Flatus | April 3, 2008 4:16 PM

All this talk about endorsements and Carter made me think of a funny blog post over at No Quarter...

"Dispelling The Obama Moose Poop About Super Delegates"

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/04/02/dispelling-the-obama-moose-poop-about-super-delegates/

Nash's respose about vietnam reminds me of the young Obama supporter who are just sick of the old arguments.
For 24% of the voters Vietnam is ancient history they were born after the war.

Jack

I'm not sure we could have "won" Vietnam without playing to win. Even then, it was inane in think Ho Chi Min wanted to be a vassel of China. He was a former ally of the US and very nationalistic. I just don't think the dominos would have fallen, but the French convinced Ike that we had to stay. It was all about ideology. Chomsky has said we stayed to make sure Japan would steer West and other Leftists even claim we went their for oil. In any case, Vietnam was very different than Iraq. Nash is certainly right to point to incompetence in both, but that doesn't address the strategic difference between Saddam and Ho Chi Min. Our exit from Vietnam left millions dead as a consequence and a retreat from global leadership that Left Carter the only option of arming OBL instead of reversing the slide of American resolve.

How ironic that first issue of the Comminist Party newspaper proclaimed the US was their natural friend, They above all others had been an ally in two world wars and had never attacked them. History is full of blown chances. Islamic extremist are unfortunately a different pathology. They have a far different agenda than Ho Chi Min.

Given our less in infinite resources, we need to be much smarter in how we fight extremism. I suspect most Americans don't want another Carter or another Bush. Hillary perhaps? This was my logic from the start to build upon the Clinton referendum, not destroy it. A renewed move to center to bridge the void. I just don't see how Barak is this bridge and at this point how and why he beats McCain. There is nothing here that surprises me after Iowa and NH.

"Less then a third of the eligble young voters turn out even in 2008"

In 2004
18--24 yr old 46.5 % voted

Of those registered 81.2 %

http://www.census.gov/prod/2006pubs/p20-556.pdf

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

CITES: George Santayana, The Life of Reason or The Phases of Human Progress: Reason in Common Sense 284 (2nd ed., Charles Scribner's Sons, New York, New York 1924 (originally published 1905 )

What do you all think about the return of the draft, and how would you implement it in today's America?

Think it's an issue that should come up, because all of the country has to share sacrifice for this and any future wars.

It's terrible we have allowed our military and national guard (and contractors too) -- and only them -- to be in harm's way.

A friend sent me this link to a wonderful New Yorker cartoon.

This is where I got my online nickname (dog's eye view).

http://www.unc.edu/depts/jomc/academics/dri/idog.jpg

The census site you provide does not make up the statement you made

Age
The voting rate was higher among
the older citizen population than
the younger citizen population.
The rate for citizens 55 and older
was 72 percent in the 2004 presidential
election, compared with
47 percent among 18- to 24-yearold
citizens.
A key difference between these
age groups was registration. While
79 percent of citizens 55 years and
older were registered to vote in
2004, 58 percent of the younger
citizens were.4 Young adults, especially
people in their twenties, are
the most transient, which may lead
to lower levels of registration
because moving usually requires
re-registering.5
While young adults had the lowest
voting and registration rates in
2004, they had the largest increase
in both rates since the 2000 presidential
election compared with all
other age groups. The registration
rate for 18- to 24-year-old citizens
http://www.census.gov/prod/2006pubs/p20-556.pdf

Heather

Got your first reply...didn't get a reply to my reply...not sure if you sent a reply to my reply

;-)

hi Dog!

the Draft still instills terror in me and I was just a kid. But I can tell you, that if this is not solved very soon, our military will buckle and right after that our country.

So a draft may be all thats left if the republicans get the presidency again. afterall, occupation for an extended period of time will require so many more military than what we presently have.

Wonder if Warren still thinks Jake Tapper is such a great reporter. ABC News 4/3/08

"Last August, I ran into Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, outside the Senate chamber in the Capitol. We chatted for a second. . . .

. . . As any close friend or family member can attest, I have an unusually keen sense of smell and immediately I smelled cigarette smoke on Obama. Frankly, he reeked of cigarettes.

Obama ran off before I could ask him if he'd just snuck a smoke, so I called his campaign.

They denied it. He'd quit months before, in February, they insisted. . . . But I knew what I'd smelled and I asked his campaign to double-check and to ask him if he'd had a cigarette.

They reported back that he had told them he hadn't had a cigarette since he quit. . . .

Except…. last night on MSNBC's Hardball, Obama admitted that his attempt to wean himself from the vile tobacco weed had not been entirely successful.

“I fell off the wagon a couple times during the course of it, and then was able to get back on," he said."But it is a struggle like everything else.”

Now I wonder about last August.

It's not a big deal in the scheme of things -- the war on Iraq, a major economic crisis -- indeed, it's miniscule. Hardly worth mentioning.

Except that I don't like feeling that I wasn't being dealt with honestly. And as much as citizens who are suspect of the media might scoff at such a notion, many of us consider ourselves to be your representatives to help make sure our leaders are telling us the truth, and leading the country down a path we're confident is the right one. (Corny, I know.)"

Good article - from across the Pond!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/apr/03/barackobama.uselections2008

If a draft is put into place, and I have thought about this, I will do all in my power to keep my children from going to war.

The one point that I have heard in the past, is that a country of our size, should not have any trouble manning an military force. They just have to make it more desirable through GI incentives and benefits.

KGC:

I have always thought J. Tapper is a tool (or at least in the tank for HRC). Just ask Wendy....

Burrito,

Putting food in yours and your family's mouth is too. Why do you think the job losses aren't a priority for the republicans....nothing like an al volunteer force.

Plus - I think smoking is cool!!!

(just kidding ; )

Burrito,

Besides that is part of the problem. As long as our citizens don't have to sacrifise for the war, the war will continue....

So just give more incentives to the more unfortunate and your children are safe from a war? Not trying to make you or anyone feel bad, just wanting to make that point before it slides by silently.

Many people think that way wihtout thinking the whole thought through. What is wrong with a country if a mother like yourself has to think that way?

The Warrior and the Eloquent Fool

"US News has a very important and extremely enlightening article about the strength of the respective candidacies of Hillary and Obama. While no one can deny that Obama has carried more states, his actual strength in many of the states has been very concentrated, not widespread as the campaign would have you believe. Michaeal Barone states that Obama Appeals to Academics and Clinton Appeals to Jacksonians. And yes, the title speaks for itself. Obama’s support is largely concentrated in areas where among other things he has vast African American support. While Hillary’s support is more widespread across the country.

Obama is of course the Academic.

Like Stevenson, he speaks fluently and often eloquently but does not exude a sense of command. He is an interlocutor, not a fighter.

And Hillary is obviously the Warrior.

In contrast to Obama, Clinton has given herself the image of a fighter. And it’s not entirely inauthentic. Against very unfavorable odds, she is continuing to campaign and to insist—and for Jacksonians, this is among the most admirable of qualities—that she is not a quitter.

That’s our gal. She never gives up, never gives in. She projects strength and seasoned experience. Exactly the qualities we need in our President. And Barone agrees, he believes that because Hillary is a warrior she stands a very good chance of getting the popular vote, with or without Michigan and Florida."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/04/03/the-warrior-and-the-eloquent-fool/

Nash

I chose my words carefully. I said I thought her acts in North Vietnam were treasonous. I did not attack her for any of the free speech actions she took part in within our country.

Don't put words in my mouth or thoughts in my head.

Shelia, I don't seriously think Carter will personally guide Obama. His endorsement is just symbolic. I have pointed to Obama's more Liberal approach, the similarity of their Dignified Foreign Policy, the advisors (including Obama's hand-picking of human right advocate Powers) and the reflection of Carter's more recent pro-Palestinian sentiment underscored by Obama's mentors and associations. These are the things that give the Carter comparison wind, not Carter's actual endorsement. I am not sure that Obama can convince America he means what he says as he pvots to center given the problems that increase daily. The long list I have put out there is something Carter did not have on his back and Carter was a white southern peanut farmer with a Navy background. He did flip-flop that much and would never remain at the Trinity, nor sign letters for a Rezko. As some have said, like him or not, Carter was fairly honest and principled, or at least nejoyed that perception. Carter did not call himself a professor when he was not. I don't want to get into that here, but certainly Carter's mere endorsement is NOT why the claims will come. Obama has done that all by himself without any support from Carter.

Just a thought.

KGC...

I'm neither here nor there with smoking. So I won't judge Obama's sincerity or struggles with quitting. But I will bet my bank account that you'll be seeing lots of this photo in the GE ad campaign with RNC soft money and 527s. McCain's campaign, itself, won't touch it directly of course. But....

The ciggie will only be the ostensible excuse for running it, if Obama's veracity about quitting becomes an issue. But the real reason they'll use it will be to send America the subliminal and racist message that they shouldn't elect a "Negro streetcorner hustler" to be their president. And the message will resound with lots of ignorant voters.

Just watch and wait. It's gonna happen. And no matter what Obama's supporters think, like it or not, White America will not elect the man in this image to be their president.

http://www.angrywhiteboy.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/windowslivewritersmokeemifyougotem-12634obama-smoking2.png

I have to say I have family in the military, and history of elder family members that served in the military, I have two dear friends in Iraq now, one station in Japan, and two killed so far.

I understand the idea about a draft making politicians more accountable, and I agree with that. If we had a draft maybe we would not be where we are now.

Flip side, if our Government is responsible about conflicts, and provides well for those who choose to serve - all the better and I believe that the military would regain it's respect as a career choice.

Everything is wrong with a country when a mother thinks like I do...

I have posted before, about the country on a whole , not respecting this current war, most nights on TV it isn't even covered. I feel deeply for the proud soldiers who have said , they do not feel the support from their homeland. we sit around and bitch about someone tax returns while they are getting blown up because of our Government.

Sheila's email to friends: "I'm confused, some on the blog seem to not like Carter and I thought he was an elder statesman for the Democratic Party with many admirers"

Sheila -- I actually do see Jimmy Carter as an elder statesman. And I repeat -- I loved him and still do. My sister was an early Carter campaigner, Carter delegate, went to the whole deal, convention, inauguration, et al.

But he came to Washington with no understanding of how things worked, and with many enemies within (and without) his own party. The truth is, two of his biggest enemies were Tip O'Neill and Robert Byrd. They often sandbagged him. In some ways, Carter made the mistakes that Hillary made when she worked out her health care plan -- she didn't play politics and they crucified her for it.

So I don't blame Carter's heart or brain for the failure of his administration -- I blame his lack of Washington experience.

And regarding what your one friend said, I do think that Ford and Carter were two of the best "people" we have had in office.

Burrito,

Well said. Well said.

And not for an instant do i think that there will be another draft, because WE, the DEMS are going to get into office, pull up the sleeves and get dirty to solve this.

The draft is as close as another republican President though.

Sheila,

There are so many admirable things Mr Carter has done during his life. He is truly a hero.

That said, I spent much of my time trying to protect sources and methods that his executive orders had effectively put at risk, and in some cases, lethal peril.

I worry constantly over the men and women serving our country across our dangerous world. We just have to have confidence that your son's training and fellow soldiers will keep all in his unit safe until they return.

I agree Patsi,

I think we both aggree.

"Clinton has given herself the image of a fighter. And it’s not entirely inauthentic. Against very unfavorable odds, she is continuing to campaign and to insist—and for Jacksonians, this is among the most admirable of qualities—that she is not a quitter. "

Gordo, I have not read most of your rants....but I do agree with this. I am one who wants a fighter. And I mean a tough fighter. I don't want to hold hands with Repugs. I want somebody to answer for the last eight years -- and I don't even mean Iraq in particular. I mean all the pro-business, anti-American worker deals that Bush struck under the radar. I don't think Obama will go after those.

But he's still better than McCain....

Anyone get the feeling that the politicians are liking all this attention, especially the super delegates ?

Before this year, I do not think the majority of voters even knew super delegates existed.

Sheila...did I miss the post where you reconciled your Jimmy Carter tributes with your previously stated claim that you voted for Ronald Reagan? Or did you just vote for Reagan in the 1984 re-elect?

Carter is a member of the "Brezenski Gang" - don't need to know any more!

Did anyone see "the race for the white house " tonight? Or whatever that show is called - I thought that H Ford Jr. was making an indirect case to be considered as Clinton's running mate....it seemed a little odd to me.

Lard,

I was 18 and he was a movie star and my dad was taken with him too. So i voted for him. First year in the Navy too. ;0)

BUT! i can say that as a person who tends to pay attention to injustice, I was really paying attention to the marked increase in homelessness during his first four and never ended up voting for a republican again. that is the truth.

As far as Carter. A few here got a bit overtaken with demonizing the thought of Obama "Becoming another Carter" and I said I was confused. So I wrote to some other party faithful that I know to get their opinions.

I am with FLATUS, having seen very clearly seeing the sturggles the military had with Carter and thought that my perspective could have been very colored.

So I asked. I think Carter got a raw deal on some and got many other issues right before his time.

"Obama ran off before I could ask him if he'd just snuck a smoke, so I called his campaign.
They denied it. He'd quit months before, in February, they insisted. . . . But I knew what I'd smelled and I asked his campaign to double-check and to ask him if he'd had a cigarette."

Oh, somebody lock me up now. If being a smoker is a national crime then it's three strikes (of the match) and I'm out. I smoke. I'm sure I smell like smoke. Thank God Mr. Tapper isn't sniffing around me.

If being a smoker is the worst Obama is about, then I say elect him tomorrow.

Jane Fonda is hated by vets but she at least tried to get the war to end.She may have went about it in the wrong way.She didn't have to do anything.She could have stayed in Hollywood making money,but she felt strongly that our soldiers should be brought home.Our government didn't care the same way they don't care now.They don't have their families getting killed and maimed.Going to North Viet Nam was a mistake,but I think her heart was in right place.

And about Carter.He tried to get our hostages rescued but something happened and I believe the Republicans had something to do with it because the same time Reagan was taking oath of office the hostages were released.I believe that was the arms for hostages deal that was investigated.So if i