Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

"a favorite target for hostile media personalities. "

That's the money quote. Nothing that Obama says will be questioned. Until the general, of course.

Bow -- You'll get this article...it's about musicans in Nashville going without health insurance. And of course, that spreads to musicians and artists all over the country as well as self-employed and so many others. Whatta country.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080406/ENTERTAINMENT01/804060423

Patsi,

Yep, A big problem, and not just in country music. That is partly why the IBMA (International Bluegrass Musicians Association) was setup. They have a program, the Bluegrass Music Trust Fund, which was created to assist bluegrass professionals in time of need.

I have to wonder why she says this stuff. Everyone knows that there are fact checkers that can track this stuff down.

I had this friend that always embellished the truth. He ended up with nickname that started with bullshit. Great guy but, nobody believed his 40 virgins story.

Anyway, she has enough accomplishments that she shouldn't have to make stuff up. since she can't criticize Obama without being called a racist, she has to make herself look better than him. She just shouldn't resort to exaggeration and fiction. She is starting to get the Mike Barnicle syndrome, where he made stuff up for his columns in the Boston Globe.

I agree about bringing up these stories about sick kids etc....I think all candidates do it to an extent. For one thing, they get stories from their staff, which may or may not be entirely correct. But I've noticed that often the stories aren't even as effective as some other examples might be. In Hillary's case, she needs to double check every statement about anything. Because somebody will question it, even if it's obvious how the error came about.

By the way, still no excuse for a story not being checked out, but here's a little info:

A Clinton spokesman, Mo Elleithee, said candidates would frequently retell stories relayed to them, vetting them when possible. “In this case, we did try but were not able to fully vet it,” Mr. Elleithee said. “If the hospital claims it did not happen that way, we respect that.”

The sheriff’s deputy, Bryan Holman, had played host to Mrs. Clinton in his home before the Ohio primary. Deputy Holman said in a telephone interview that a conversation about health care led him to relate the story of Ms. Bachtel. He never mentioned the name of the hospital that supposedly turned her away because he did not know it, he said.

Deputy Holman knew Ms. Bachtel’s story only secondhand, having learned it from close relatives of the woman. Ms. Bachtel’s relatives did not return phone calls Friday.

As Deputy Holman understood it, Ms. Bachtel had died of complications from a stillbirth after being turned away by a local hospital for her failure to pay $100 upfront.

I keep wondering who is advising Sen. Clinton. So much of what a candidate or even office holder depends on input from their aides and campaign staff.

In a normal work day, the politician has time to say "check this out, vet this, get me more information". In the course of a campaign where they become almost automatons moving from spot to spot 18-20 hours a day, in a constant state of jet lag, doing well to remember the town they are in, their hosts and stump speech, they are much more dependent on the expertise of others.

Clinton's staff just doesn't seem to be doing her any favors. Again I'm wondering if she isn't suffering from a bad case of the managers not trusting or controlling the office staff. The "too few indians" has killed more than one politician.

"The "too few indians" has killed more than one politician."

That was a serious problem with Gore's 2000 campaign here in TN. My son was then a Vandy student, and volunteered. He said that the headquarters was filled with people jockying for position, acting like hot dogs and paying no attention to organization or actual work. Everybody wanted to be the one in charge.

Obama's 'Sweetie' Problem

"While flirting with female factory workers in Allentown, he called one "sweetie," a paternalistic way to address a woman if there ever was one. It might have worked had he been trying to do his best imitation of Lily Tomlin's Ernestine, the telephone operator, but this was no spoof. This was Obama trying to relate to working-class women in a way that went directly south."

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/erbe/2008/4/4/obamas-sweetie-problem.html

Craig, does your fact checking sister organization do that type of service for candidates? If so, how fast is their turnaround for something like the hospital anecdote?

Patsi's comment that one can't rely on overstressed on-the-road staffers to do fact checking adequately is certainly true.

Credibility?

"The next video (above) is of Barack Obama telling the public (via a news conference) that he would have more credibility as a President (around the world) because his “grandmother lives in an African village” and because he lived many years “overseas” in a Muslim country. Notice how he struggles to omit the fact that he was also a ‘born and practicing’ Muslim for most of his young life. What is interesting about his entire premise is that the Media does not ‘call him out’ for utilizing his African grandmother (who by the way is not related to him by blood but instead is one of the MANY wives his grandfather had as a Muslim) for political expedience, and that he assumes that said characteristics are a “positive” around the world.

Has someone told him that living in a Muslim country and having a poor African and Muslim grandmother is not ‘necessarily’ an enticing fact to most Russians, Chinese, and Latin American leaders? Since he is an educated man, we must assume that he probably knows that most people around the world do not live in the “wishful thinking” society in which he would love to place most of the American populace, since it would make it quite easy to vote for an inexperienced and egocentric politician like himself."

http://savagepolitics.com/

This is garbage about Hillary being HONEST. Someone needed to read the entire story of the landing in Bosnia. There were snipers and there were bombs in the distance and they did have to fly low and they did have to be moved to an part of the plane that was safer. Just another Hillary bais story. Now the story about the woman who died in Ohio because of no health care.
LET me tell you, I had a 18 year old student in my office on Friday, she is living with her parents, and a senior. Mother took her off her insurance to save money. This girl had a bad stomach pains and was very sick. Her boyfriend took her to the hospital. The hospital WOULD NOT TREAT HER. They have her some pills and would not exam her. She thinks it is her cysts on her ovaries, but it may be worse. If she DIES the hospital is morally wrong.
So Hillary's story is true, the hospital just wants to deny they would not treat her. IF THEY had treated her why is she dead and why is the baby dead.
The media needs to get off Hillary's back and let her run unbias.

Actually, it was Jamie's comment. One of these days I'll remember that the poster's name follows the comment. (Does that practice make any sense?)

"Everybody wanted to be the one in charge."

Unfortunately, that is the problem with too many campaigns. One campaign I remember, the press people would get info from the research people who got direction from the campaign manager. So information would pass through all of these ambitious hands belonging to glory hounds. A day later as office manager on the front lines dealing with news people and volunteers, I would see the press release.
Errors were so common, that I begged to see releases before they went out. Sometimes I got them, others not.

Anytime you see this accuracy syndrome in a campaign, you can almost absolutely bet that no one with a long view, heavy on general knowledge, or research expertise has ever laid eyes on the material.

It's not HIllary's fault. Someone told her a story, and she believed it.

Like when Bush told her he wouldn't invade Iraq unless there was no other option.

The Clinton economic plan. (It's an infomercial that runs on cable at 2 AM.)

WJC: "Are you tired of working in a low-paying job?"

HRC: "Do you have trouble paying bills?"

WJC: "Then you need our new training course on how to get rich the polictial way."

HRC: "We'll show you how to get elected to public office by pretending to be progressive."

WJC: "Then we'll show you how to sell out to corporate interests."

HRC: "Legal fees, book deals, seats on boards of directors, it's all covered in the course."

WJC: "And if you sign up now, we'll tell you about how to get cash in paper bags for granting pardons."

Call 1-800-COR-RUPT for Bill and Hillary's "Get Rich the Political Way." Only ten easy payments of $39.99. (10% discount for superdelegates.)

Here's a youtube clip of Hillary telling "the hospital story." Notice the fake "folksy" accent she's adopts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq5BwOujrNQ

What kind of fact checking has been done on the hospital's version of this story? They can't share medical information that is confidential. It seems like the hospital has more to lose, like their reputation, by this story than Hillary has to gain by telling it. She could tell a million stories like this and be truthful. I could give her one from my in-laws so it's not like she had to jump on a remote possibility of a story to give her healthcare plan credibility. I 'm just saying that it seems like a story with no legs unless the hospital is covering something up. People are being turned from emergency rooms (like my father-in-law)when they are either uninsured OR on Medicaid because hospitals only reserve a percentage of space for those patients. At least that's the reason they gave for turning away my father-in-law.

Seriously, this should not happen to a candidate like HRC. This is a fatal flaw in her campaigning. HRC should be able to find out where the story was twisted, and let her staff know that it is counter-productive to put forth false stories. Especially since the Clintons have known from the start that the MSM is extremely tilted against her and they will dig every day to prove her wrong.

It does keep her in the news, but only in a negative light.

Not only did the Clintons make $109 million over the past seven years, BOTH of them had 100% free health insurance, paid for by many taxpayers who have no insurance.

If Clinton is really serious about health insurance, why doesn't she propose that all we all get the SAME coverage she and Bill have?

The same can be said for Obama. His "plan" for health insurance is as weak as Hillary's.

We need 100% government financed health care, just like Canada & Western Europe have. (THEY think we're all nuts with the way we do health care here.)

In other news...

At 10:11 PM, Saturday evening, physicians were finally able to pry the gun out of Charlton Heston's cold dead hand.

""To be sure, there is no official diagnosis of death by blogging ... "
NY Times story on recent deaths of 2 tech bloggers, and the high pressure world they inhabit. "

ROFL! I know the blogging story shouldn't be funny...but it reminds me of when a friend of mine was told she had to stop watching Orrin Hatch interviewed on television. Her home nurse had been checking her blood pressure and it SOARED when Hatch appeared.

"We need 100% government financed health care, just like Canada & Western Europe have. (THEY think we're all nuts with the way we do health care here.)"

Right on.

But Nash, I don't see how you can support any politician who ever made a dime if you resent Clinton so much. If Bill Clinton had put his brain power and charisma into private enterprise, he'd have been a CEO worth ten times as much as he's now worth.

This is not in regards to Craig's story - because his post is accurate.

This IS in regards to this hospital BS

Again...everyone misses the bigger issue - health care in this country. The thing Hillary is fighting for and has been fighting for - so we can ALL get care no matter who we are.

I work just blocks from skid row in downtown Los Angeles - now notorious as the dumping ground of homeless patients who can't afford health care...I'm sure you've all seen the video of the homeless lady being dumped on the streets in nothing more than her hospital gown. This is not the only incident...this happens all the time.

I also work not too far from King Drew where a woman went the emergency room asking for help and died while she was waiting even after people begged for the hospital workers to help her. This is not the only type of incident like this at King Drew. King Drew is famous for its problems.

People see what they want to see - Hillary uses an analogy to talk about the need for ALL AMERICANS to have coverage and be given access to health care and all anyone cares about is if she dotted all her 'i's" on the story. Who cares? These types of stories play out every day all over this country. People ARE dying because they can't get the health care they deserve or afford the medicine they need to stay alive. That's the point - and that's the point Hillary makes. Her story was a "nameless girl" the girls baby was a "nameless baby" the hospital was a "nameless hospital". Hillary is making a point about the kinds of nightmares that DO play out in this country when it comes to health care or should I say the lack of health care.

But it's much easier to miss the point so it fits into the Clinton bashing narrative everyone so enjoys. I'm glad there are over 12 million democrats who voted for Hillary so far that actually do get it - with the intellect to see through the BS in the media.

iris: I agree with you. There are plenty to true horror stories about the uninsured out there. I just wish that Hillary had found one.

"If Clinton is really serious about health insurance, why doesn't she propose that all we all get the SAME coverage she and Bill have?"

Ummm...well...see...SHE HAS! That is exactly what her proposal is. Open up the Congressional plan to ALL Americans.

a little something to lighten the mood:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NMrjxWLmgA

Brye

What would I take up with Craig? I'm fine with the topic. I think it is an important topic - health care should be a real concern of all of us.

If you don't see Obama's "big whoppers" clearly you have your eyes closed.

Nash

If Clinton is really serious about health insurance, why doesn't she propose that all we all get the SAME coverage she and Bill have? "

She has.

Maybe it's time for the Clinton campaign to "destroy" Obama. Use whatever opposition research has uncovered. The justification would be "if we don't do it now, the Repubs would do it later." They can both go over the cliff together. Hand it to the Repubs - the Obama groupies would get what they deserve. Unfortunately, the rest of us would have to endure 4 more miserable years. But it would be worth it - the system has been rigged for Obama. Hillary needs to stop him anyway she can. I will not get into the "tin foil hat" reasons - Obama as POTUS would be far more dangerous for the country and planet than McCain.

Sorry about the double post....I got a message saying the post didn't go through.

GORDO, best put on your kevlar for that suggestion. But I would like to see all the stuff the opposition research has uncovered.

Are we now waiting for a Chelsea Clinton document-dump?

http://www.newsweek.com/id/130612

Many of you are "on stage in a fantasy world" - I am "back stage in the real world". There is so much you don't know!

Obama made up composite figures in his first book.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/01/chicago_suntime.

He has changed dates etc to add to the "glow of his life story"

Lied about his father lied about his relationship with Rezko lied about taking money from lobbyisgts, lied about his relationship to the energy industry

And now he is weasing on his Iraq position. Letting his aids circulate stories that he is more moderate on Iraq while still preaching immediate withdrawal on the college campuses.

Big Fat Liar

not exactly wedded to the truth

The tust gap has nothing to do with Clinton.

The media is the problem.

[sigh]

Talk about moving the goal posts.

Media Idiot #1: Well...nothing in the schedule to hit Clinton on...at least nothing that will stick...

Media Idiot #2: Hey....let's get the tax returns!

Media Idiot #1: Darn...tax returns show they are actually quite generous and give a lot to charity unlike Obama...damn..

Media Idiot #2: Hey...maybe there is something in Chelsea's senior thesis...let's get that!!!

[And when the thesis confirms Hillary's role as George Mitchell has confirmed it on several occasions and backed up by the Prime Minister of Ireland. What will the media idiots do then?]

Media Idiot #1: Hey...think there is anything in Chelsea's Pre-K drawings that might reveal whether Hillary is lying about all the stuff she did while First Lady of Arkansas?

Media Idiot #2: I don't know...let's see if we can get Chelsea's Pre-K drawings released and find out.

Media Idiot #1: Yea...good idea.

Headline: Why Won't the Clinton's Release Chelsea's Pre-K Drawings - What Are They Trying to Hide About Hillary's Role as First Lady Of Arkansas?

Jamie:

I agree Clinton's staff has let her down. But either blame or credit for the campaign's performance starts with her (even if it does not end there).

Warren - I've wondered where you've been.

I'm sure you weren't around yesterday because you were going over Hillary's taxes with a fine-toothed comb. I know how long you've been waiting for them to be released.

What did you find?

Oh...that she gave 10% to charity unlike your guy Obama who in true form was worried about his own needs rather than the needs of others.

;-)

Dear Craig, Everyone:
Good morning to all :-))
Craig thank you for your comment to my post yesterday. I partly agree but not totally, i think freedom of speech has been taken to extremes and as I see it Craig if you clean up what Randi said, she basically called Geraldine Ferraro and Hillary Clinton prostitutes. I see that as being mean, vindictive and insulting and not so much a freedom of speech issue, however I respect your viewpoint and how it differs from my own because you are looking at it through a journalist's perspective I suppose

In any event Craig I just want to thank you taking time out from your busy schedule to respond to my post. I deeply appreciate that very much Craig, thank you :-))

Sincerely,
Heather :-))

Remember...in Hillary's version of the story the hospital, baby and woman were all "nameless". So...Hillary didn't make-up a hospital name...she repeated the story as the Deputy told it to her.

Talk about trying to spin it...someone here keeps saying that "even the deputy sheriff said he didn't mention the name of the hospital because he didn't know it."

Well...Hillary didn't mention the name of the hospital either...because she didn't know it.

The HOSPITAL identified themselves. The hospital is assuming they are the hospital being talked about. Why would they assume that? Perhaps because it went down pretty much like the deputy said it did.

What disturbs me most is that both the media and those who support Sen. Obama will not tolerate even the most minor of criticisms without going off the deep end. Sen. Clintons supporters while equally avid just seem more tolerant of conditions.

I genuinely see the media and Obama crowd as the difference between spoiled teenagers having a total "It's Not Fair, you just don't understand snit fit while stomping out of the room in a huge huff" while the supporters of Sen. Clinton tend to be overworked and overstressed women who sort of view life as "Shit happens, I'll fix it."

The idealist vs. the realist

They are two sides of the same coin, both wanting to change the world and they need each other to make it happen. This is why I always saw the Clinton/Obama as a great team to be followed by Obama/ ? in order to fix the mess created by the last eight years.

Now that seems impossible simply because of what I view as media interference to create antipathy charged excitely (and ratings) on all sides.

THE BOTTOM LINE: Someone who lies habitually about objective facts, someone who fabricates a family history, someone who trashes his ancestors and diminishes them with false claims, is not someone that most of us would trust to be in the Oval office.

The truth about Obama is there in plain view. It is there for all of us, and especially the media, to see. But there are “none so blind as those who will not see, none so deaf as those who will not hear.” And none so stupid as those who consciously avoid the truth because they want to keep on reporting Obama’s lies.

Both Mr. Obama and the mainstream media owe the American people an explanation and an apology. But don’t hold your breath. Obama’s too busy making up new lies to even know what the truth is any more.

Obama is not part of any “Joshua Generation.” He has been “joshin’” us all along, and we keep taking it. He may be a Kool-Aid salesman. But we keep buying and keep drinking.

Two and a half years ago I held a news conference in Chicago to denounce Obama as a fraud. Events since then have all corroborated my facts and confirmed my conclusions. I told you so. In 2004.
http://www.politicalgateway.com/main/columns/read.html?col=747

KGC

Also akin to bashing Hillary and calling her a liar while at the same time turning a blind eye to Obama's lies.

"Someone who lies habitually about objective facts, someone who fabricates a family history, someone who trashes his ancestors and diminishes them with false claims, is not someone that most of us would trust to be in the Oval office."

Hear! Hear!

Wendy,

"Hillary didn't mention the name of the hospital either...because she didn't know it."

This is all part of the Clinton destruction machine. Make up a story that makes her look as horrid as possible, vaguely mention the truth once as rapidly as possible, and then go with the made up story courtesy of the hospital press release.

It's disgusting. I would love to see someone from her side pull clips of the news people doing the story from this fake angle and blasting the beejeesus out of the person doing it by show, name, date, and time and keep screaming until the protest becomes a major story. Clinton's campaign is suffering from lady like behavior.

Gordo:

"Maybe it's time for the Clinton campaign to "destroy" Obama. Use whatever opposition research has uncovered."

I would be curious to see what, if anything, the Clintonites are holding back. It seems as if Ickes' talking points to the Super D's mirror your posts G-man.

"I will not get into the "tin foil hat" reasons - Obama as POTUS would be far more dangerous for the country and planet than McCain."

This unsupported paranoia does no one any good - including yourself.

This is the problem of life in post Ronnie America. Americans now expect not to pay taxes at all. It's why our infrastructure is falling apart, it's why our schools suck

Obama luvs him some Ronnie Raygun he thinks he is the best ex president. I doubt Obama is equipped to do abything but lie and collect money from special interests.

May favorite funny blogger uses his "Sunday Disservice" to lay Heston to rest with

http://bagwine.blogspot.com/

Now that Obama is so close to the Democratic nomination, the scrutiny he faces on issues like these has grown intense. It will stay that way--for him, for There are more questions than answers right now. Hillary Clinton, and for John McCain--as long as they keep running. The stakes couldn't be higher, and voters want to know.

But the questions are serious ones about character, judgment, and close personal associations. If the answers turn out to be damaging, this won't be a Swift Boat. This will be a whole fleet.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/realclearpolitics/20080331/cm_rcp/four_stumps_in_the_water_for_o

Wendy:

I was away for a bit.

The tax returns proved just what I expected. The Clintons are super-rich and have been for awhile now.

It is easy to give a lot of money to charity when you are rich. They obviously didn't look like they were suffering.

It is also curious that they did not release the 2007 return.

And there are already questions being raised about some large contributors to the Clinton piggy bank - contributions that make Rezko seem like small potatoes.

I did not think the tax returns would be a fire-storm - just a few more nails in the coffin...

To the Reno-Journal Gazette in January, Obama said: "I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it ... he just tapped into what people were already feeling, which was we want clarity, we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing

K you ring true this morning. I would say lighten up, but then I can feel your pain. You show exactly why I am often humorless when I come here and why as a loyal Democrat I will reject NeoLIberalism and go with the candidate showing the most honor, experiance and love for his country. Obama and Michelle love what they want to make this country into, not what Liberals like the CLintons have stood for for generations. Sham is the best way I can descibe the Obama Machine, a true Obamination of proressive thinking with a hundred revolting surrogates that make Ferraro seem nice.

Warren:

It's not about a lot of money or not...it's about percentages.

The average person gives around 3% to charity.

The Clinton's being as generous as they are gave 10%

The Obama's being as selfish as they are (did they really need that 2 million dollar home?) only gave 1%

And Warren...you're back pedaling - you obsessed about the tax returns - you kept warning us...wait until the tax returns come out...wait until the tax returns come out...wait until the tax returns come out.

Well...they're out...and it just shows they are generous people who care about helping others. Their fortunes have improved dramatically since 2000 because of Bill's speeches and their book deals and they are sharing the wealth. Good for them.

As opposed to the Obama tax returns which showed Michelle Obama got a big raise for her husbands election to the senate and his willingness to get earmarks her hospital.

And they stepped up their charitable giving when he ran for office kind of like when he paid off his 20 year old parking tickets,.

What To Do When The Democrats Ask You For Money

"We all get them.

Those pleading requests in the mail from Pelosi, Dean and other Obama- Primary fixers.

...they aren’t exactly raking in the dough compared to the GOP. I speculate that this is because more people are donating directly to their candidates.

Every Hillary Clinton supporter I know has decided to send his or her money directly to Hillary. I mean, why give money to the very people who are sabotaging her?

What the Obama campaign and the Democratic Party Fixers don’t understand is, if they think we are pissed off now, they don’t know pissed-off. Our anger today will seem like a day at the beach compared to what we will be feeling after The Fix."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/04/06/what-to-do-when-the-democrats-ask-you-for-money/#more-2079

KGC

Yes...how many millions of dollars of earmarks did he try to bamboozle the Senate with for his wife's hospital?

As a tax payer I'm glad they saw through his little hospital kick back scam. Phew.

"We wear the chains we forge in life," from Nobody's Fool another of Russo's books"

Bowman, You do know that he appropriated that from Charles Dickens' Jacob Marley?

Point of the post.....
It is tough to shake a damaging narrative once it takes hold, no matter how unfair the storyline might be.

Not just any hospital the one where his wife works

but he doesn't bother to get heat for poor Chicago residents living in Rezko slums.

Not 'A' hospital

The hospital his wife got a HUGE - several hundred thousand dollar - raise from just as she was packing Obomie's bags to send him off to the Senate.

Had it been for another hospital to say open an inner city free clinic then that would be quite admirable. But...just like with his "still" friend Rezko - Obomie doesn't do anything for anyone that doesn't do for him first.

"Yep just like your pal Obama - in fact Obama lies more as was proven after a little trip over to Politifact.com yesterday."-Wendy

Do you a link for this..you omitted it yesterday too.
Typical.

Btw, Wendy - I don't spend my time combing through the Clinton tax returns.

That is what the media is for...

Out of the million for the hospital
200k was for Michelle

Warren:

Shocked! You were so obsessed with them for so long.

You do have a tone of disappointment in your posts about them though. Sorry the release of the tax returns showed that they actually pay their fair share of taxes - even not taking write offs they could have taken and gave a considerable amount to charity - more than the average American.

Take heart dear Warren. The media will find a way come hell or high water to put a negative spin on the Clinton tax returns and it will brighten your day.

http://www.woodstockmuseum.ca/index.php?menu_id=331

Well unless you can show that a group of Hippies gave Bill Clinton a big raise before she asked for the earmark....

It's all about the kick backs for Obama Brye.

Like I said Wendy - the tax returns did just what I expected. It shows that are filthy rich.

And even though you Clintonites want to focus on what generous souls they are - people still struggling about who to vote for may see something else in those tax returns (i.e., just another rich politician pandering to the downtrodden).

The Clintons are also going to look shifty because they have held back their 2007 tax return.

Misson accomplished.

btw, how are the recent PA polls looking? Is the average still a 16 point lead for Clinton?

How are things in Indiana and South Carolina and Kentucky

and according to Pa statewide polls stilla 10%
lead. Given the Bob asey endorsement, the 4 million ad buy and the bus tour...he has made very little gain

"The media will find a way come hell or high water to put a negative spin on the Clinton tax returns and it will brighten your day."

They already have. The big focus on the charitable giving is only taking place in Hillaryland. The rest of the world is talking about how rich they are and which unsavory characters have been currying favor with who they thought would be the next President and co-President of the US....

Rez

Politifact.com. It's linked from the CQ Politics site

and no...I didn't omit it yesterday...I stated my source quite well

Truth-O-Meter

I think you had a smart remark about that but didn't read the follow-up that said you could find the Truth-O-Meter over at CQ Politics Politifact.org...

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/04/stop-the-word-police.html#comment-63478

That you chose not to click on a CQ Politics link is not my problem.

You'll have to do some math as well...but I'm sure you have a calculator.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/political_commentary/commentary_by_wesley_little/what_if_democrats_used_winner_take_all

Reality check for those who think Democratic means the will of the majoirty...LOL

Jamie wrote, "Anytime you see this accuracy syndrome in a campaign, you can almost absolutely bet that no one with a long view, heavy on general knowledge, or research expertise has ever laid eyes on the material."

I think you nailed it right there, Jamie. Dems in general better start taking the long view or prepare to lose the White House once again.

I also think the mainstream media is harder on Clinton to an unfair degree, however.

Breaking news, Michelle Obama forgoes multi-million dollar earnings to work for a non-profit. Details at 11:15

Changed to Michelle now.. When the story first came out it was about him and he had to retract it because no one had offered him a big salary\

and just for a little fact ce3ehcking. She did take a mutilmullion dollar career path with a big law firm and later switched careers.

I am off to walk Lucy.

Have fun playing defense Wendy - with Bosnia, the tax returns, sinking poll numbers and the Super Delegate move towards Obama - it looks like you have your hands full.

btw, Hillary also cheapened any endorsement from Edwards by dangling the Poverty Czar position. Thanks again to the Clinton campaign from the Obama supporters!! The Clinton campaign is good at attacking and demonizing - and that is pretty much it.

All these distractions from the big fat liars story.

Credibility? In Obama We Trust

http://www.bestsyndication.com/?q=20080404_barack_obama.htm

"It shows that are filthy rich."

Compared to what...you?

earning $109 million dollars over 6 years (over 30% of it went to taxes and 10% of it went to charity.)

They gave away over $43 million dollars - to the people of the US and other worthy organizations. Looks like WE ALL got filthy rich right along with the Clintons.

In the end...the Clinton's came away with about $10 million per year...FAR LESS than say someone like Oprah or even Britney Spears or Lindsey Lohan.

Grasping at straws Warren. I'm sure most of us knew their income went up after he left the White House...most x Presidents do because they get book deals and speaking engagements. This is not some big mystery. And they are not filthy rich...they are wealthy but I think we all suspected they were.

Rezdog

What is the story.

Repeating the media narrative not the facts of what happened. The media doesn't always tell the truth.

Who created the narrative. The rightwing which does not want Clinton elected while they seem perfectly comfortable with Obama.

btw, Hillary also cheapened any endorsement from Edwards by dangling the Poverty Czar position

Clinton never mentioned Edwards that is your assumption of course it is probably based on the obvious pandering Obama did just last week\
when he offered Gore by name a cabinet position.

More examples of it's ok if Obama does it.

Still waiting for that Edwards endorsement for Obama Warren...I guess his glibness and getting into a snit with Elizabeth Edwards didn't help his case for getting an endorsement.

And I'm sure Edwards applauds her poverty czar move...it's what he asked of her when he left the race.

What's Obomie been doing about poverty...

[chirp chirp chirp chirp]

Everything is on topic here today.

Craig's post includes the line: "It is tough to shake a damaging narrative once it takes hold, no matter how unfair the storyline might be."

Interesting when Obama supporters have nothing left and they're empty arguments have been batted down, they say Clinton supporters are off topic.

[shrugs]

Typical

"their"

darn-it - did it again. argh.

Wendy

When the earmarks for Michelle issue came up before Obama supporters said we shouldn't discuss earmarks at all because McCain didn't take any.

There is a difference between setting aside money for projects in your state and projects which benefit you personally.

If it requires a "kamikaze" attack, Hillary needs to "destroy or cripple" Obama. A few days ago, Jamie asked some very important questions about how Obama got to this point. I'll not go into the "tin foil hat" explanation. Even some long time Hillary haters that I listen to and read have said it is her patriotic duty to prevent Obama from getting the nomination.

"There's one way to find out if a man is honest: ask him. If he says "Yes" , you know he is crooked." - Groucho Marx

Well it's that time again:

Yankee Baseball Time:-)) Yanks have lost two straight games I think they will win today Chien-Ming Wang two time 19 game winner will take the mound. Hopefully Yankee bats will wake up.

Well my both my picks for NCAA final are out my sentimental Alma Mater pick ND and now UCLA was just defeated but it still will be an interesting game with Kansas and Memphis. There is sort of a Divine justice to it in that it is fitting that on or near Dr. Martin Luther King Jr's 40th anniversary of his assassination in Memphis it is extremely fitting Memphis will be in the finals and in the true spirit of the great American and inspiration to us all of every race color and creed Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., I will cheer Memphis to win, a fitting tribute to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr's 40th Anniversary.

--Heather

Heather - you know you're one of my favorite posters here but I can't say I'm sad about the UCLA loss

Fight On!

;-)

The hospital spokesman was urged to make a statement by the Obama canpaign.

"Are we now waiting for a Chelsea Clinton document-dump?"

Okay....I want to see EVERYTHING about Obama dug into then. I mean EVERYTHING. Including Rezco in ALL detail, including the sweet deal/salary his wife got through his Senate dealings....his family, too, drughs, friends, the laundry list. All of it. And then spun the way you do Hillary's every move. That's what you want from the Clintons. Now that Democrats have turned into right wing bloodsuckers.

Talking about phony accents is a joke, considering Obama lapses into black street talk.

Patsi , a friend of mine dated a black man who when he was around his friends he spoke differently than he did when he was just around her. "Ebonics" I think is what they used to call it. Anyway , he did this one time and she looked at him funny. He looked at her and said "Sorry." That was just how he and his friends communicated.

Is my Dad here?

Warren wrote a bunch of stuff about the Clinton tax returns:

"The tax returns proved just what I expected. The Clintons are super-rich and have been for awhile now."
--Define super-rich and provide a statement of their net worth. The tax returns give no indication of their wealth, or lack thereof. Income is only one side of the ledger; you need to see expenses to come-up with anything approximating what may contribute to their wealth. Then, once you've done that, you have to create a balance sheet that will carry forward past years' figures.

"It is easy to give a lot of money to charity when you are rich."
--Well-to-do people are often cheap skates. People living hand-to-mouth often share what little they have. Messrs Buffet and Gates have decried the 'let them eat cake' attitude of many Americans with substantial wealth. Be charitable in your attitude towards the Clintons. How does their gifting compare with that of the Obamas?

"They obviously didn't look like they were suffering."
--Good. Early former presidents and their widows sometimes lived in penurious circumstances. The Congress decided this was not the way the country wished to treat its former chief executives so they granted them a significant purse to carry on a meaningful lifestyle.

"It is also curious that they did not release the 2007 return."
--Neither did the Obamas. However, the Clintons did disclose what they expected their income to be and the amount of taxes they paid in anticipation of what the final bill would be. This is typical of what people with complex finances must do.

"And there are already questions being raised about some large contributors to the Clinton piggy bank - contributions that make Rezko seem like small potatoes."
-- Substantiate and clarify. Are you suggesting people made unearned contributions in support of the Clintons' lifestyle? What exactly do you mean? Be specific.

The Wall Street Journal, in a page one story that I cited the day after they released their returns, said, to the effect, that the Clintons were very conservative in their filings--that they left many, probably allowable, deductions on the table suggesting that they did not try to game the system.

I'm skipping some posts to add this to the discussion, so I hope I don't repeat anyone else's post. This seems so obvious to me...

Yes, the Clintons have become rich. Do you really imagine that ANY president in today's America will NOT become rich after leaving office, if they aren't already rich when they get there? GWB has already chortled about his plans to grab some of those high-buck speaker's fees. And his dad often gives speeches - at $200K a pop - for the Rev. Sun Myung Moon's organization.

Just sayin'....

Wendy:

Making Edwards the Poverty Czar does nothing for poor people. It does something for Clinton and Edwards (two rich politicians).

What will help poor people is actually passing some laws to eliminate the over-concentration of wealth among a select few. Passing such laws will NOT happen till we get a Democratic President.

(And I don't think McCain will follow HRC's promise to appoint Edwards the Poverty Czar.)

Warren...

Another point about the Clinton's failure (in your eyes) to release their 2007 returns...

It is a very common practice, particularly among the very wealthy and BUSY, to file for an extension for their current tax return. I believe the 2005 and 2006 returns for the Clintons were filed in October of their respective due years, so the information they've provided thus far has been accelerated quite a bit for the convenience of people like you...who are waiting with bated breath to see if they come up with some new problem to wring their hands over.

McCain reversing positions on the Bush tax cuts will hurt him bad in the general election.

Who the hell cuts taxes on people who have more than enough money when we are fighting (at least) 2 freaking wars?!!? (Oh, I forgot - we can just keep borrowing money from China...)

Bush's economic policies are the only thing worse than his foreign policy (that is if you consider arrogant and poorly-thought out unilateralism a policy.)

I actually had to put some gas in a car this weekend. Bush-enomics has led to $100 barrels of oil. This hurts regular people and American business. It helps oil people (like those in TX, Saudi Arabia and Iran, etc.). It also pisses off our allies because no one should be paying those prices. It is a freaking racket!

kgc...

I sincerely hope you didn't mean that you were leaving permanently! I understand what it feels like when another poster pushes your buttons, and pisses you off beyond tolerable limits, but I'll really miss you if you go...so, selfishly, I hope you won't. I find your posts always informative...and always backed up with information and/or links to demonstrate your point.

Hope you're lurking, hope you see this, hope you come back!

When more than 80% of the Country thinks we are on the wrong track - "experience" in Washington will be a liability in the general election.

(The more Washington "experience" you have - the more accountable you are for the current mess.)

Plus, "experience" vs. "experience" - advantage McCain.

"Change" vs. "experience" - advantage Obama.

I was impressed that the Clintons pay a higher tax rate that others in their tax bracket. I was also impressed that, unlike Saint Barack and Michelle, they were generous with contributions.

I actually had to put some gas in a car this weekend. Bush-enomics has led to $100 barrels of oil. This hurts regular people and American business. It helps oil people (like those in TX, Saudi Arabia and Iran, etc.). It also pisses off our allies because no one should be paying those prices. It is a freaking racket!

Posted by: warren | April 6, 2008 1:50 PM

Warren, try filling your car in Belgium or in Europe at all... In comparison gas prices are still at a level that should keep you smiling.

I know Oregon...amazing how they left a bunch of deductions on the table so they could pay the same tax rate as I have to pay instead of what most people in their tax bracket usually pay. Shows they are not just talking the talk but walking the walk.

Harborwoman:

"It is a very common practice, particularly among the very wealthy and BUSY, to file for an extension for their current tax return. I believe the 2005 and 2006 returns for the Clintons were filed in October of their respective due years, so the information they've provided thus far has been accelerated quite a bit for the convenience of people like you...who are waiting with bated breath to see if they come up with some new problem to wring their hands over."

First, I was not clamoring over the tax returns to begin with. My interest was only peaked when they put up resistance. Then - I thought it was a very poor tactical decision to say they will release them on Apr. 15 - a week before PA.

(Of course the campaign finally realized this and now gets 2000-2006 out early. But I suspect this will still be an issue for PA - especially since we are waiting on 2007.)

Second, I understand it is common for most busy people to fix an extension. BUT - most busy people are not running for President - and most do not have a staff of hundreds to do their bidding.

And I am sure with a good accountant and a very small percentage of those millions of theirs - the Clintons could have release their tax returns all together (but they didn't).

(And c'mon - don't ya think if you told the accountant - "hey - these are for the Clintons - put a rush on them" it would have been placed on the top of the pile?)

Again, just poor management skills and tactical errors by her campaign.

This blog has become extremely boring. The main problem is that it is so predictable. Farewell..OD

What do you mean those cheapskate Obama's haven't released their 2007 tax returns?

What are they trying to hide?

;-)

Flatus:

The Wall Street Journal is a conservative newspaper. And the conservative establishment is circling around HRC. So I tend to take anything they say with a grain of salt.

(Or perhaps "asbestos" Pasti!! ; )

Harbor to KGC: "I sincerely hope you didn't mean that you were leaving permanently!"

Ditto that sentiment, KGC.

Last time I checked...about 3 seconds ago...It was only April 6.

:-)

I am leaving this blog!

Well actually just for the day.. It's after 8 pm and I have to sleep early to open the shop at 6:30 in the morning... sigh. another week...

Take care everyone...

Yep, the Clintons said they'd release their returns by April 15. Might not make it.

EuroTom...

Now THAT was funny! Thank you!

Flatus:

". . . potential for ethical conflicts should she win the White House. Among them is Mr. Clinton’s partnership with Ronald W. Burkle, the billionaire investor and supermarket magnate, whose deals have included investing money for the government of Dubai and acquiring a stake in a Chinese media company.

Mr. Clinton had previously not disclosed what he earned from that partnership, but the tax returns show he collected at least $12.6 million since 2002, and possibly as much as $15.3 million, from his work as an adviser and rainmaker for Mr. Burkle’s Yucaipa Companies. "

...

"The other consulting arrangement Mr. Clinton has had was with InfoUSA, a consumer database company run by a friend, Vinod Gupta, who gave $3.3 million in consulting contracts to Mr. Clinton beginning in 2003, according to court records related to a shareholder lawsuit against Mr. Gupta. The shareholders accused Mr. Gupta of improperly spending company money on the consulting agreements and on private jet travel for the Clintons."

...

"In 2002, for instance, they reported income totaling $9.5 million and $115,000 in gifts to charity."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/05/us/politics/05clintons.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

And I am sick of talking about the tax returns.

(Let Wolf-boy worry about that. That will give the Clinton campaign something to do besides throwing Democratic leaders such as Richardson, Kennedy and Dean under the bus.)

But one things for sure - Wild Bill better not get into any red-faced-finger-waggling rants over these tax returns (or anything else)....cause Hillary is already skating on some very thin ice.

Why is it so important that candidates release their tax returns?

I doubt Kennedy or Richardson could fit under any bus.

"(And c'mon - don't ya think if you told the accountant - "hey - these are for the Clintons - put a rush on them" it would have been placed on the top of the pile?) "

Warren, you must have very simple taxes. It takes a while to put together rich people's income, expenses, et al. But none of that matters for you....you're just looking for fodder.

Re:KGC

Pushing buttons is not the same as threatening to give out personal information.

Warren

You made a laundry list of allegations against the Clintons. I asked that you substantiate your claims:
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/04/clintons-expanding-trust-gap.html#comment-63769

Instead, you chose to reply:

"The Wall Street Journal is a conservative newspaper. And the conservative establishment is circling around HRC. So I tend to take anything they say with a grain of salt."

The editorial pages of the Journal are conservative. Beyond those pages, it is a fine newspaper that accurately reflects the news available to them.

But, to suggest your response provides the substantiation that it is your burden to provide is shameless.

I'm surprised Lucy doesn't turn around and snap at you.

We will be lucky if we can get a new President in the White House before Bush and Co. taking action against Iran.

Sen. Lindsey Graham said one of his questions for Gen. Petraeus would be what steps should be taken against Iran and Syria.

Wait a minute. Isn't that a question for the President? Generals conduct military operations to further American Foreign Policy. Last time I checked - they do not set that policy.

(But then again - leaving it to Bush isn't the best idea either. We need to have the general election ASAP!!)

Whoa! I must have missed a post! Please direct me to the time of the post you're referring to....

"Re:KGC

Pushing buttons is not the same as threatening to give out personal information."

Warren...

Could not agree more with your 2:32 post! This administration scares the bejeebus out of me...and is the reason I NEVER entirely dismiss the posts of those who would warn us...like anon p....

"And I am sick of talking about the tax returns."

Warren...really...after only a couple of days and after all the wringing of hands you did over them in the weeks leading up to their release.

Now you are showing your true colors...tax returns were not was you hoped for and now you're mad.

Poor Warren.

"it what it reminds the voters of, the soap opera of the Clinton years. "

It became a soap opera because right wingers like you turned it into one.

"what"

Maybe the Obama campaign should send out another Senator from Punjab memo since the reason the Clintons gave for the delay in filing their 2007 is the divesting of the blind trust that prompted the first Punjab memo. But I guess Obama didn't see that memo before it went out. Just like he didn't hear Ed Scultz call McCain a war monger (it was before he entered the room.) And just like he didn't hear the Reverend Wright remarks. And just like he didn't know that Rezko was purchasing that adjacent plot of land or that he was under investigation at the time. The "I didn't hear it" and the "I didn't see it" tale grows more tired every time I hear it. Obama needs a new line. Quick.

I find it interesting that Hillary relates a story told to her by a law enforcement officer and she is the liar. I agree that she must vet every single story she tells because the press will crucify her for every misstatement whether there was malice in its intent or not.

Outing how charming...

Thank you. Took me a minute, but I see it. I think I was thrown off by your moniker.

Flatus:

I don't think being a fine newspaper that accurately reflects the news is mutually exclusive with being conservative.

(Hell - every once and awhile Pasti takes me to task as being too forgiving of the GOP and Reagan...and that is putting it mildly.)

And trust me buddy - if you came at me with that attitude in real life and Lucy was within 20 feet...she sure as heck wouldn't be snapping at me!

I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong on this...and, actually, I'd like to be....

I have a vague memory of someone upthread saying that the Obamas don't have a mortgage. I just reviewed their 2006 tax return, and it appears that they do indeed have a mortgage. They paid more than $60K in mortgage interest in 2006.

HW

Petraeus has absolutely no responsibility for Syria and Iran--that's CENTCOM, a command with nobody in permanent charge since Adm Fallon resigned. Of course Fallon was denied permission to testify before our Congress, so this was another act of presidential hubris.

Maybe Warren can take the time to draft Articles of Impeachment.

Well, it's not only wrong, it's foolish. Composite characters in a book can cover mistruths, but when things are easily checked out... However, maybe it's one of those things that people who operate at a higher level seem to believe but I don't quite understand: There is no such thing as bad PR.

How can Hillary be accused of lying when she did not give any names.The case she could have been talking about could be different from the one the Hospital came forward about.These types of cases happen every day of the week,so maybe this particular hospital had a guilty concience about a completely different case.
Ruth

Harborwoman: I am with you on this one. According to this article, the Obamas had a $1.32 million mortage with Northern Trust:

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/04/how-to-buy-a-mansion-you-cant-afford/

I mean "mortgage." Ugh.

Wendy:

Just because I am sick of talking about it does not mean the media will be.

So you can continue to stick your head in the sand and attack the messenger all you want.

The fact remains that the tax returns have put the Clintons on defense. And defense is how you hold a lead. And FYI - Clinton is losing.

Contests won - 28, Obama; 14, Clinton.
Popular vote - +420K for Obama (with FL)

Plus, a major increase in super delegates (including super-duper delegates like Richardson, Pres. Carter (implicitly), and Sen. Casey.)

And of course Bosnia will hurt even worse than the tax returns.

(Can you imagine 527's of Hillary dodging "sniper fire" compared to clips of John McCain? I would rather deal with charges of "guilt by association" to Rev. Wright than "she's a liar" on issues of National Security)

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Multimedia/

Getting a Democrat elected in Nov. has always been one of my main reasons for supporting Obama. And at this stage, I don't see how HRC can convince me she is a stronger candidate for the general. Especially, if she has to take down Obama (a rising Democratic leader that has inspired the Next Generation to wake up and care about politics) or by getting the Super Delegates to overturn the will of the people.

" Warren, Obamas were so rich they had no mortgage on their new house? Where did the money come from? " Posted at 12:09 by Maxtrue

Actually, the Obama's did obtain a mortgage to buy the house.

House purchase price: $1,650,000

Mortgage: $1,320,000 at 5.625% interest fixed 30 year
mortgagor: The Northern Trust Company
recorded 8-21-05 Cook County recorder's office

house is held in a land trust agreement with The Northern Trust Company, trustee for the benefit of Barack & Michelle Obama, tenants in the entirety.
recorded 6-21-05 Cook County recorders office

There is also a mortgage not to exceed $250,000
for the 10' x 150' strip of land recorded 12-19-05
purchase price for strip of land: $104,166
Appraisal of land: $40,500 appraised as unbuildable limited size & width

As to their financial qualifications that enabled them to obtain this jumbo mortgage, that would be best answered by a mortgage broker/banker.

The documents are avaailable for viewing through the Obama website.

Warren, I know this was addressed to you, & while I am not an Obama supporter, thought accurate information should be used by both sides.

In all the primaries so far Hillary and Barrack each got more votes that McCain,so We that support Hillary should plan a write in campaign for her if Obama gets the nomination.That way she will be able to get the Florida and Michigan votes and also the votes from the caucus states from the people who were unable to vote because of the restrictive way the caucuse are done.

Many voters were disenfranchised because there was no absentee voting and many were intimidated because it was not a secret ballot.Being that there are only about 600,000 votes between them at this time Hillary would be able to close that gap easily.

Why should we be stuck with two unacceptable candidates .With enough time we should be able to educate all of the Hillary supporters on how to place a write in vote.That would be better than not voting at all.Ruth

Coreen wrote, "Warren, I know this was addressed to you, & while I am not an Obama supporter, thought accurate information should be used by both sides."

Sheesh, Coreen, that hasn't stopped anybody in the past.

I don't know if a link to the Helen Thomas piece has been presented yet or not but just in case:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/357783_helenthomas06.html

She is a little "sweetie" in my book.

Gordo:

I can think of some devious ideas for 527's about the "sniper fire" comments. I won't share them though - since there is still a chance Clinton can win the nomination. (I am not counting Hillary out until I hear it from her own mouth.)

But I suspect the GOP brain trust might come up with some "good" ones.

Sorry...had to take a break to go have a shower....

Flatus...Thank you for the military explanation at 2:53. I certainly don't have the knowledge of 'who's in charge of what' and 'chains of command' that you do, so I appreciate the education. That said, Bush and his minions still scare me...a bunch! Nothing they tried in advance of November would surprise me.

Flatus

Yes, I know, & that is what must stop sooner than later
or the oncoming trainwreck will take us all out with it.

That's my hope anyway.

"That said, Bush and his minions still scare me...a bunch! Nothing they tried in advance of November would surprise me. "

Yes....there's almost no chance that "security" won't be an immediate issue right before the election. I'm not a theorist like anon, but I do believe we'll see BushCo scaring the Bejeezus out of the populace prior to elections.

Flatus:

I was actually debating the issue of Impeachment with my grandpa and aunt this weekend. My view is that while this may have been a good option years ago - I am not sure it makes sense now.

I think the key is to simply contain Bush and prevent him from making anymore blunders. A bitter impeachment battle would sour the general election and distract from the major issues. (It would also increase partisan fighting at a time when we need to move past that crap.)

Plus, with the legal team Bush could put together (in addition to the right wing propoganda machine) - the impeachment battle would probably last well past November...

Warren----------------------

I agree, the Repub 527s will be vicious against any Dem. With Obama, they will use the "Hate America" theme as one line of attack - Rev Wright (GD America), Farrakhan, Ayers, flag pin, pledge of allegiance, MO's remarks, "secret Muslim", his name, etc. This is toxic stuff. I don't believe anything they would throw against Hillary would be nearly as potent. She cannot be accused of hating this country. Putting a "Hate America Loony Lefty" up against John McCain is not wise.

Oh, for heaven's sake! My Mariners just let Baltimore come back from a 2-0 deficit to win 3-2 IN THE BOTTOM OF THE 9TH! Aagh! It's just been that kind of day....

Warren...

I hope we CAN contain Bush! I don't disagree with your points, but I certainly do think it's a shame that politics so often gets in the way of doing the right thing these days.

Gordo:

I disagree. Saying Obama "hates America" is assinine and it won't have as much traction as Clinton's credibility problem. Claiming Obama does not love America is not consistent with his narrative. Anyone with that kind of background knows full well about what makes this country so great.

(Plus, I personally am not outraged over SOME of the things that Rev. Wright had to say in the 30-second caricature. I think a lot of people in America and elsewhere can identify with being angry at the way George W. Bush has ran this country.)

And though I disagree with much of the crazy things Rev. Wright has said - I am not somehow "unpatriotic" for defending his right to say them. This country was born by a revolution. And I am not about to accept restraints on free speech - especially for speech criticizing the government - because some people are insulted.

Hate to put a damper on your joy, Heather, but the new Yankee stadium will be the house the taxpayers, in the form of subsidies to one of the richest men in the country (Steinbrenner), built. Some time ago, Patsi suggested that those of us who are interested read the book Free Lunch. I suggest it to you.

However, enjoy your team's win! My team choked today...big time!

Heather:

With the Joba-Rivera combo to close out the game - the Yankee starting pitchers can breathe a little easier.

I am looking forward to the last season in the house that Ruth built!!

HW:

The Mariners should have never let Griffey Jr. go. (Imagine him and A-rod together!!)

And, in the same vein as my last post, may I just say that I am so proud of Seattle voters that they've said no to the pressure by the Sonics basketball team! You know, the usual...you taxpayers will foot the bill to build us rich folks a new stadium or we'll fold our tent and take the team to another city, one that WILL yield to our threats.

I say...enjoy 'em, Oklahoma!

Warren, your 3:41

This president, as is his prerogative, absolutely refuses containment.

I don't believe (with a very good chance that I'm wrong) that the process would necessarily be protracted or bitter. The charges would have to be crafted in as sterile a fashion as possible, and the rhetoric surrounding the process as dispassionate as it could be under the circumstances.

What was your grandpa's position?

OMG, Warren! Griffey, Jr., A-Rod, Tino Martinez, and the list goes on and on and on.... The Mariners have traded so many excellent players, it's unbelievable! There are Mariners all over the league helping other teams win pennants and rings.

" Claiming Obama does not love America is not consistent with his narrative. Anyone with that kind of background knows full well about what makes this country so great."

ROFL! Funniest thing I've read today. Note you said, "his narrative."

Flatus:

My grandpa and my aunt were all for impeachment. They thought someone should not be able to do the things Bush has done and get away with it.

Rockets kill 3 US troops in Baghdad...in the Green Zone...and wound 31...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080406/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_080403191859

Dear Warren: :-))

I have ambivalent feelings about that...part of me likes it and yet part of me sees the other side, that this young gifted man is so extraordinarily talented it may be ashame in a way to limit his talent to the bullpen, as a starter he could be a multi Cy Young award winner, strikeout and era leader and so I am torn about that.

Also when the Yankees had Wetland as closer and Mariano as the setup man it worked because in my humble opinion the Yankees had a better hitting team, by that I mean the hitting was slightly more balanced in the context that they hit better in clutch situations and as a result they could play that seven inning game more often.

My point is if this year's Yankees cannot hit well from the clutch and come from behind, that gives less opportunities to the Joba/Rivera combo and he may be more valuable as a starter as opposed to a setup man for Rivera. It is a tough choice to make and I don't envy Joe Girardi that decision.

Sincerely,
Heather

Well, Warren, you must know that I'll always side with your grandpa.

Oops! Not all killed or injured were in the Green Zone, but many were...2 killed and 17 injured in the Green Zone, I think.

"and the rhetoric surrounding the process as dispassionate as it could be under the circumstances."

Keeping the rhetoric dispassionate would be an impossible task. Plus - if one of the grounds was that Bush and Co. committed knowing falsehoods to lead us into war - that sounds dangerously close to accusing an American President of war crimes. And it is tough to sterilize that.

(Moreover, some Democratic hot-heads would undoubtedly say things that could be used by our enemies - both here and abroad - as propoganda.)

Warren-----------------------

It does not have to be true - there is so much that fits into a "Hate America" narrative. Several of my posts over the last few days have discussed this theme. I believe you are giving swing voters too much credit - many are very easy to manipulate - just choose the correct images / words and you can control a person's emotions. People vote on how they "feel" about an issue or individual.

Heather, EdVB & Warren

Love your joy & exuberance, Heather--- I signed on to Yankee pride in the mid-70s, (Reggie's era--when they wintered in Lauderdale) generally, try to stay calm until the all-star break (except maybe when they play the team about 100+ miles to the north), then all bets are off.

Don Mattingly is another of my all-time stars, & naturally Derek, who can do no wrong as far as I am concerned.

Warren, I would make it something simple such as contempt of Congress of such a nature that it would meet the high crimes and misdemeanors test. A very narrow indictment with elements that could be attractive to members on both sides.

Flatus:

I also got some good stories about the Hellcats he used to fly, kamikazes and air-craft carriers.

He's lived some life.

(I came across a good site in an attempt to check my spelling...)

http://www.acepilots.com/usn_aces.html

Dear harborwoman:
I totally agree with you, I was being facetious caught up in the joy of the moment.

I agree that the wealthy owners should bear the costs, personally I fail to see the reason for a new Yankee Stadium especially when the location will remain the same. Wouldn't it be better to just upgrade the current one?

I think its all about ego and competition of the owners rather than necessity, those tax dollars could be better spent elsewhere

Sincerely,
Heather

GORDO: re swing voters: I give them more credit than you do. It actually takes more thought than being a yellow dog or automatic partisan.

PS: Have not read posts by Warren and Flatus and others on impeachment/high crimes carefully -- will do so tonight -- but I think it would be great to get Bush-Cheney out of office before they get to pardon those who brought us torture memos, torture itself, and a privatized war.

Get an executive branch headed by John Warner (Pres.) and Lee Hamilton (VP) in there asap to serve until the new president is inaugurated.

But remove these bad dudes from the chain of command before they can start another shooting war against Iran.

Heather:

I agree with you re: "dilemma" we currently have with Joba. And I am not sure where the convential wisdom came from that you need to rest young pitchers (except maybe Kerry Wood - but this seems silly since most injuries are random).

It seems Doc Gooden was a pretty good starting pitcher in his younger days. And it was not injuries that limited his career. And I don't think anyone was keeping the Rocket in the bullpen for a few years (Clemens had 5 CG his rookie year.)

But it may make sense to at least ease him in this year and see how he does over longer stretches. And if he keeps pitching like this - maybe make him a starter down the stretch.

And This is WHAT I'M Talking about. ;0) I want this sooo bad.

Clinton Falsely Claims She Criticized Iraq War Before Obama
Hillary Clinton On The Race: "It Is Not A Coronation"
Sam Stein>> Rendell Hints Mark Penn Should Be Fired

BIO
Jason Linkins
The Huffington Post

Andrew Sullivan: Bush Administration Officials Will Be 'Indicted For War Crimes'

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/06/andrew-sullivan-bush-admi_n_95305.html

About Jason Linkins
Jason Linkins is a Political Reporter at the Huffington Post, covering media and politics. He's based in Washington, DC. Previously, he wrote for HuffPo's Eat The Press, and has also contributed to DCist and Wonkette.

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Media coverage of the disclosure of the "torture memo" authored by Bush Justice Department official John C. Yoo has been mostly a deafening silence. But on this morning's Chris Matthews' show, someone finally fired a shot. As we mentioned in this morning's liveblog, credit goes to The Atlantic's Andrew Sullivan, for taking the opportunity to ensure that this matter got out into the televised discourse somehow.

SULLIVAN: The latest revelations on the torture front show the memo from John Yoo...means that Don Rumsfeld, David Addington and John Yoo should not leave the United States any time soon. They will be, at some point, indicted for war crimes

Sorry, i was so excited, i forgot to trim out the wasteful bits.

Interesting series of articles in Slate.com about what it may take to dig our way out of the mess Bush is leaving....

http://www.slate.com/id/2188296/

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/horsey/viewbydate.asp?id=1741

Priceless David Horsey!

"Get an executive branch headed by John Warner (Pres.) and Lee Hamilton (VP) in there asap to serve until the new president is inaugurated."

Unfortunately, you would get Nancy for the duration.

Mark Penn

DUMPED!!!!!!

Finally

Well he "asked" to step down

Jamie steps aside as the head rolls down the aisle.

Good news, Jamie. Might save the campaign a couple of bucks, too.

it's all infighting from here on out......look for the shorter daggers.......

I'm wondering if Maggie isn't a tough mama and kicked him to the curb. Hope so.

it's a simple matter of the screenplay now calling for his, at this point, removal from the main frame........or it's like a relief pitcher will now be coming on........

Dog,

I know the Bush/Cheney administration has trampled the Constitution, but I'm having trouble figuring out how you came up with John Warner and Lee Hamilton to head The Republic. As statesmen, they're probably good choices, but if we can't work within the framework of what's left of our Constitution, we may as well have a coronation and move Jeb Bush in behind Prince Hal. Warner can be Prime Minister and Lee Hamilton can head up the House of Commons.

Clinton and Obama Fight for N.D. Votes -- Again

"Sen. Hillary Clinton made a blunt appeal to North Dakota delegates to switch their support to her, despite the fact that Sen. Barack Obama handily defeated her in the state's caucus in February.

In an indication of how tense the battle has become for each Democratic delegate, Obama abandoned the campaign trail in Pennsylvania and scooted to North Dakota for the state party's annual dinner last night, despite the fact that he's already won 14 of the state's 21 delegates as well as six of the state's seven superdelegates.

Clinton made it clear to North Dakota Democrats last night that she believes there is no such thing as a pledged delegate and highlighted that stubborn streak in her appeal for delegates to switch from Obama to her when the Democratic national party holds its nominating convention this August."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=4596305&page=1

Elizabeth Taylor pre-booked to play the good girl gone bad who re-appears on the scene with semi-devastating ramifications........

chief strategist.....is that somewhat akin to feathered bozo hired to take the pratfall?

I know KGC will enjoy this, but others can take a look at an example of why Californians can be absolutely insufferable about Paradise.

I do Manic Monday, and one of the ladies who do as well, took today's theme of 1000 and devoted it to the mileage in the Delta. Enjoy the slide show.

http://comedyplus.blogspot.com/

chief strategist......reminds me of one time I was watching the TV and onto the space came..... "The World's Foremost Authority on Pink Flamingos".
I always wondered after that if there were like, blue flamingos or something somewhere.......

Sheesh

"who does"

"if there were like, blue flamingos or something somewhere......."

I don't know about blue, but pink isn't the only color. They are pink because of the shells of the shrimp that are their main source of food.

When a sniper aims, someone dies. Snipers kill, only, or badly wound people. So throwing the word "sniper" around was a bad idea.
Hillary was at Sarah's Restaurant in FWA last week. Local TV stations live-cam'd the speech.
The topic was jobs, and she took questions. The questions were asked by a cadre of hand-picked people and were all softballs. The crowd was all pro HRC, so it was kind of a non-event, I thought.
What I don't like about these small coffee house settings for "town hall meetings" is Hillary's tone of voice. She just gives out pat answers---same thing every time---but it is truly as through she was addressing five year old children, with that sing-song voice. I won't watch any more of these "rallies"...it's pointless...always the same words, always the same questions, and Hillary answers robotically.

sturgee...Pink Flamingos? RIVERS OF GORE!! RIVERS OF GORE!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0asuF7ZlOw4

Dexter

"What I don't like about these small coffee house settings for "town hall meetings" is Hillary's tone of voice. She just gives out pat answers---same thing every time---but it is truly as through she was addressing five year old children, with that sing-song voice. I won't watch any more of these "rallies"...it's pointless"

This is true for all politicians. Because of 24 hour news, you tube, and cell phones, politicians may have to stop doing these. I've seen the same thing with Obama and McCain. They have "stump" speeches and "pat" answers. When you add that they are scared to death to just talk to people because someone might film them saying something stupid or rip apart every sentence for "hidden meaning", it makes running for office really difficult.

'exter..........ever see "10,000 Maniacs"?

Just did my weekly stop at Electronic Village and found one of the most moving articles about MLK that I've ever read

http://electronicvillage.blogspot.com/

Oh yeah, Jamie , you are absolutely correct.
I don't know how it could be "better"...it is just boring after a while. Indiana, my native state, may actually factor in in deciding something...it's been since RFK-McCarthy in '68 and Ford-Reagan in '76 since anybody paid attention to Indiana's Primary.
Obama even bypassed Memphis on Friday to speak at Wayne High School in Fort Wayne, a place I used to watch basketball games...these people are really campaigning hard in Indiana.

don't recollect that, sturgee...(10000 maniacs)

Dex........did ye not frequent the Drive-ins during yer wayward youth?

From my 7:05 PM post: "...Obama abandoned the campaign trail in Pennsylvania and scooted to North Dakota for the state party's annual dinner last night, despite the fact that he's already won 14 of the state's 21 delegates as well as six of the state's seven superdelegates."

Why did Obama feel the need to do this? Is he afraid the delegates will move to Hillary?

Speaking of happy dances....or not so happy dances...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AEfCQxVmxM

Land of One Thousand Happy Dances:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdi1_Es85fA

Again, I cannot believe I am responding to GORDO.

GORDO: "Why did Obama feel the need to do this? [re appearing personally in North Dakota at Dems' annual dinner.] Is he afraid the delegates will move to Hillary?"

Rational observer: Obama is not taking ND's delegates for granted. He believes in attending to details. He wants to thank them for their support.

Ghost

It's been ages since I thought of this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZiRiIpZVF4

I was going to post a Peg Leg Bates on Ed Sullivan video for a take on the happy dance thing and then I thought........wopes....hold on there, pilgrim......some one or else or other might think youre stereoo-typing......and then I chickened out......

Seinfeld is classic. Julia Louis-Dreyfus is hot.

Corey,

That was a great piece of humor!

I'm sorry about Penn. Really am, but they HAD to have known all the Negatives before hiring him. Thems the breaks.

many women are hot......some women are incandescent.......

" "The World's Foremost Authority on Pink Flamingos". "

I used to have a photo on my fridge -- it was of the guy who manufactured all those pink flamingos...he and his wife always dressed alike...and this pic was one in pink flamingo tropical shirts....

"Rational observer: Obama is not taking ND's delegates for granted. He believes in attending to details. He wants to thank them for their support."

Agreed, dog. Gordo, you're looking too hard. Who gives a crap that he's going back to some states. Actually, he may be pretty smart to in touch with states he will want to win in the general (if he's the nominee).

And a little white bread soul - The Commitments!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQKmrQfxRHQ&feature=related

the guy I saw was a genyouwine scientific authority on those pink flamingo boids......and I watched, transfixed......how was I to know, after all, in how short a time my life was to be absolutely indelibly marred by a horde of ravenous marauding Pink Flamingos....

Or we have this one!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIf8y0h3lH0&feature=related

Mustang Sally by Wilson Pickett
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7upBJ63qGwY

And some pictures of some great Mustangs

Jack

The Charlie Daniels Band ~ Drinkin' My Baby Goodbye

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu2Lf4al4tc

Wish I could see YouTube Jack. Now if only there was an hour long Billy Joe Shaver special coming on, I'd be in Hog Heaven....

On the other hand, I just discovered that we now get RFD-TV so I can watch the Ralph Emery Show....plus see Craig on Imus! What a great day.

Patsi

Both games were fun yesterday

I did fall to sleep on the Kansas game when they were up 40 to 12. I loved the look on Roys face, as the commercial says: "priceless". I woke up about the time NC got to with in 5 points and watched Kansas wake up too and put it away. Beating Roy Williams, so bad he is sputtering, is as good as taking it all IMO.
I like Memphis too so I'll be hoping for a good game where both teams walk away as winners.

Jack

Dexter:

That has been a big mistake of the Clinton campaign. Consistently underestimating the intelligence of the American people.

(And Mark Penn is certainly one of the culprits here. He is too "smart" for his own good.)

well, Im just glad he had a mother who could explain life to him along the way..........hadda be tough with your dad gone.......

Jack -- I don't follow basketball much...or any sport now that my son and his pals aren't around to keep me up to speed on what's what....but I'll probably watch the Monday game....or at least keep checking in on it.

I don't know enough about how these teams played all year. Didn't K-State beat KU earlier in the season?

What a weird weekend...I had work to do, but just flat couldn't get to much of it. Read, watched some movies. So I'll be paying the price tomorrow. But I've had a houseguest for the past eight months, and she finally found a job and moved out this week. Daughter of a friend. Nice girl, but I had NO idea how much I loved my privacy until Ihad this weekend just with the dog & cats!!!!

By my count, your sister site, Politifact.com, shows Hillary Clinton with the most TRUE statements and the fewest FALSE/PANTS ON FIRE statements of the three major candidates on the campaign trail.

On the other hand, of the three candidates, Barack Obama has the highest number of FALSE/PANTS ON FIRE statements attributed to him.

Most Americans would never know it by the kind of coverage Clinton gets vs Obama and McCain.

Shameful.

Elaine is a shiksa!!

("not that there's anything wrong with that")

I'll decide what's shameful around here.

Thanks,
Mr Ubermensch

Bowmanc,
Ick. His parents must be very proud. Or questioning the tuition payments.

Look on the bright side Clintonites - Penn will overshadow any more talk of the Clintons' tax returns (for now).

Is this your?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU13NBZEaQ4

Bowmanc:

Nice one!

(That's not me - but I must admit - the parallels are striking!!)

Bowmanc:

Nice one!

(That's not me - but I must admit - the parallels are striking!!)

"By my count, your sister site, Politifact.com, shows Hillary Clinton with the most TRUE statements and the fewest FALSE/PANTS ON FIRE statements of the three major candidates on the campaign trail."Posted by: It's Me 9:17 PM

Hey It's Me,

I just looked over the Truth_O-meter at Politico.org and did a little number crunching myself. Appears Hillary lies 99.5 % of the time to Obam's 10.2%. I can't show you the link because just like you, I pulled those facts and numbers out of my ass to suit my need . Roflmao

Off topic and a little weird....

Does anybody else think that in this picture Charlton Heston looks exactly like Howard Spriggs from Mayberry?

http://charltonhestonworld.homestead.com/files/ch-evilnew1d.jpg

What dominates the news

Here are the number of times, according to NEXIS, that various topics have been mentioned in the media over the past thirty days:

"Yoo and torture" - 102

"Mukasey and 9/11" -- 73

"Yoo and Fourth Amendment" -- 16

"Obama and bowling" -- 1,043?!

"Obama and Wright" -- More than 3,000 (too many to be counted)

"Obama and patriotism" - 1,607

re. Senator Clinton's growing reputation for enlarging the facts, it seems that she has taken to channeling Mr. Bush.

When she appeared on The Tonight Show, she laughed about sniper fire, in the manner of Mr. Bush guffawing about WMDs, and then she tossed off a comment about how, as First Lady, she not only visited some 80 countries but also went to several war zones.

I wonder exactly what war zones she visited and if they were all contained, as the Bosnia situation was, or if she simply tried to -- yet again -- imply that she had faced enemy fire in an effort to boost her record of experience.

dog & Patsi ---------------------------

To rush back to ND, Obama must think he has a weak delegate commitment. When it comes to the GE, Dem unlikely to win ND.

"The Republican Party presidential candidate usually carries the state; in 2004, George W. Bush won with 62.9% of the vote. Of all the Democratic presidential candidates since 1892, only Grover Cleveland, Woodrow Wilson, Franklin D. Roosevelt, and Lyndon B. Johnson received Electoral College votes from North Dakota."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dakota#Politics

Obama

Pants on Fire - None
False - 11
Barely True - 2
Half True - 8
Mostly True - 6
True - 16

Clinton

Pants on Fire - 2
False - 5
Barely True - 7
Half True - 15
Mostly True - 7
True - 19

As often noted before: They are both politicians

Obama

Pants on Fire - None
False - 11
Barely True - 2
Half True - 8
Mostly True - 6
True - 16

Clinton

Pants on Fire - 2
False - 5
Barely True - 7
Half True - 15
Mostly True - 7
True - 19

As often noted before: They are both politicians

"Now Clinton folk explain to me how someone who can't even manage a campaign with one of the best political machines in the history of the republic should be entrusted with the running of the federal govt. "

I guess they should have taken a page from Obama and run a dirty campaign financed by big business and run by thugs.

Looks like Gallup gap is closing it again:

Gallup Poll Daily tracking for April 3-5

Obama 49

Clinton 46

http://www.gallup.com/poll/106141/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Maintains-3Point-Edge-Over-Clinton.aspx

Patsi:

Come join us in the tank. The water is fine!!

There are plenty of realists over here - and we all know true believers are necessary to win the general election.

(And the Clinton camp is not without its share of "true believers")

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Hillary-Clinton/ss/events/pl/081702hillary;_ylt=Aq1nFqiT2bZBcGi6jsYU17RjKsMA#photoViewer=/080405/480/df4eaea6c3ec4dd9909142c80c418665

...closing again.

"Patsi the truth of the matter is, and in your gut you know it, Hillary blew it, big time. "

In my gut I do know that her campaign has made some huge mistakes. HOWEVER, and this is a big one -- Obama's campaign has as well....but the media is giving him a pass on them. Just one example: why the hell didn't anyone anticipate that those Wright tapes were potentialy toxic? What Hillary didn't "get" was that the media was going to go after her just like they did her husband....and Al Gore...and John Kerry. This time, of course, they have the backing of certain "Democrats."

Good night everyone.

Warren---------------------

Have you seen this video? Do you dare watch?

The King Maker (Axelrod's Obama)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZydhWoEHCdM

Criag,

I'm surprised at you, Craig. Why didn't your "Clinton Trust Gap" mention
Hillary sincerely thought the story about the pregnant woman without health
insurance was true? She was told the story in a brief meeting with a
sheriff who explained he had heard it from a relative of the woman.
Clinton's campaign tried to vet the story but had a difficult time because
medical records are legally private. I hope you aren't turning into another
MSNBC sycophant for Obama. Please don't transform into Keith
Olbermann. I don't want to lose respect for you, too.

I can't help but think that the decision to run for President is very similar to this "conversation" in Gethsemane. If you watch either one of these versions, you recognize the heartfelt fear and then passion for the decision that was made to accept to be nailed to their tree.

I can envision that passion in both Senators McCain and Obama, most certainly in Former President Clinton or Vice President Gore. I have never detected it in the Senator Clinton though.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4omWMMibRuE

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qHcFBjj5FNE

Prof Marcia,

If one wanted to draw a parallel, they could say that Bush believed what his intelligence people told him about WMD and Iraq, but that turned out to be a bit false right?

The sky can only fall for so long... I was a die hard Clinton fan from the 90's. I dreamed of ways to get Bill in the White House for a third term but now, I can do without him.

I have struggled to find the proper parallel in sports for this Clinton campaign and I think I have found it.

A few years ago, Stanford's women's basketball team was a #1 Seed, playing Ivy League Champion Harvard on their home floor. They were a double digit favorite and they were stunned and embarrassed, losing to Harvard. Stanford looked sluggish in the game and played without without their top stars due to injuries, but they still lost a game to a team they should have handled...same holds true for HRC.

""conversation" in Gethsemane. If you watch either one of these versions, you recognize the heartfelt fear and then passion for the decision that was made to accept to be nailed to their tree."

Oh my God. Bear. PLEASE tell me this is a joke. Because if it's not....and you are now comparing Barack Obama to Jesus in Gethsemane, then we are fucked bigger than I ever thought. Christ Allmighty, I thought his comparing himself to Joshua was bad.

And you don't understand why is campaign makes me nervous? If this is the new mindset, then we are in worse trouble than we were when W was elected.

One more thought before Ihead to bed....I was flipping channels and came across a show where some wacko kid said, "Until I heard Kurt Cobain songs nobody ever talked to me." That's what I now see talking. The Cobain crowd.

Patsi,

That ridiculous comment is a perfect example of why I hate this page now.

Your inability to actually read and try to understand the point I was making far exceeds the offenses of FryDaddy or even Fritz. I DID NOT SINGLE OUT OBAMA WITH MY COMMENT. The fact that you would interpret my remarks as such tells me that you are unwilling to consider any view point outside of your own. If that is the case just ignore my words.

The fact that you can't recognize that Hillary Clinton clearly has a lack of passion for this race is beyond me. If you saw her campaign in person, she had the same joyless look that you see in the face of the Fry person at McDonald's

She is proof positive that an underdog needn't be as talented as the favorite, so long as he is willing to work harder than the favorite.

Your Kurt Cobain reference shows how out of touch you are because it's only a small segment of Gen X'ers who idolize him. The numbers are nowhere near as bloated as Elvis sycophants. If you knew anything about that period of music, you would realize that Dave Grohl has far exceed Nirvana with his own band the Foo Fighters.

I will end on this note...Bob Marley said "In the Abundance of Water the Fool is thirsty"...I will now picture you whenever I hear that line going forward.

Your intellectual bigotry is proof positive of why we can never have a meaningful debate of any kind on this blog or in this country for that matter....

THANK YOU FOR AFFIRMING MY DECISION TO STAY WAY FROM THIS PLACE. I don't tolerate people who Cannot Understand normal thinking.

patsi: Howard SPRAGUE. (:~)

Bear ----------------

BRAINWASHED!!!

I'd put many of Clinton's misstatements in the "puffery" category, but the Tuzla sniper fire story is another matter. This is a whopper of a lie, that was told too easily and convincingly. Combine this (and a few other incidents) with past Clinton history, and the result is that I don't believe anything she says. Any or all of it could be lies for all I know.

An Update (4/7/08): A family member of the pregnant woman in Clinton's story comes forward to say that the senator's version was accurate (Washington Post). Just like Gore's maligned-but-true claims of involvement in developing the internet, the facts might ultimately vindicate Clinton -- but perhaps not soon enough to lessen the impact for those who will continue to insist that she was exaggerating.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/04/07/clinton_told_true_tale_of_woe.html