Nice video, Craig. I think Sen Obama will probably have trouble coming up with a national security staff with the same level of professional qualifications/gravitas as Mrs Clinton.
She may be able to pickup a couple of the peacocks, but these aren't the types that he or the country need.
Maybe he could get a few retired professors from a couple of the national war colleges to camp out with him as a genuine public service. That group includes some very bright people.
He/we don't need a bunch of uniformed jerks trying to push their own radical agendas. Unfortunately, he probably doesn't have enough understanding of the technical aspects of warfare to know when he's being given a snow job.
So campers, whaddaya think - with six weeks between Mississippi and PA, think we could get back to discussing and arguing issues instead of throwing invectives and accusations of stupidity at each other? Could get awfully boring around here.
All she has to do is put up a commercial with the key lines from her China speech in a commercial and combine the women issues with the trade issues ... one whale of a commercial.
I was thinking about that Dream Ticket and decided Sen. Obama is nice and all that, but I want Stephanie Tubb Jones. She basically told Noron to shut up because she couldn't answer a question if Noron kept talking.
"I'm pretty, I don't have to be polite or shut up about MY opinion" just got set back on her vapid little heels by a beautiful, strong, brilliant woman. Hillary Clinton is darn lucky to have her for a spokesperson.
Hi Craig,
I like your kitchen. haha
I am going to my FIRST democratic meeting tonight at 7. What should I expect? I have never gone to any political meeting in my entire 67 year life.
This should be interesting. I am setting the ground work for a potential run for a state office. How is that for high hopes. From psychologist/counselor to state rep. haha
Nice video technique! I like it, but it may add to the legend started by Imus after you had been on, saying "I had Craig Crawford on...he's about half a wack-bag..."
Joe the Communist may not have been watching & listening, but I have, and it's no secret Imus of WABC is not the Imus of WFAN.
Remember when Bernard and I-man made the jokes about Limbaugh's Viagra issues , when Limbaugh had customs issues with multiple bottles of the pills?
That was funny, but now all Imus does is give daily praise to Limbaugh and Hannity, and we get multiple blessings from St. Imus placed on Brit Hume's head.
Now, we also get jacked-up on the "fairness" of FOX News...how I-man NEVER notices any bias or right-slanting of the news.
One of the reasons I loved Imus of WFAN was that he was a live-wire, independent as a registered repugg could be, his poking fun of pols was great television. Now he pushes FOX News as "great" and sucks up to the aforementioned reactionary blowhards.
I do applaud his trying to "be better", but Karrith is just not funny. Tony was just hilarious today with his commentary which Imus said was "genius"---it WAS genius material, I loved it. Karrith is just not funny and worse, she cannot deliver comedy. As she is about to hit a punchline, she invariably stumbles and stammers and ruins the bit. So he failed there in selecting a quality comedian.
Carl Jeffers of LA is a brilliant pol-analyst and he should be on more often. The woman named Debra (is it Dickinson?whatever) was controversial but interesting.
Jeffers challenged Imus to stand by his promises to incorporate race dialect and Imus is doing much better, but he could do even more.
He praises the great John Lewis, who happens to be my personal US political hero , but I don't think he ever has had him on.
My point, in condensed version: Imus has changed, praising the right and NOT making fun of them, and that is why I became an I-man fan in the first place. I have to record and FF a lot of the show now---I cannot listen to that goddam Brit Hume or any of those assholes from FOX Noise.
A few more random questions to contemplate as we stare down the barrel of the next seven weeks:
--More debates? How many and where?
--Edwards delegates? Will he want to sit on them all the way to August? Or is now the better time to play kingmaker?
--Hillary tax returns? I can't imagine she won't be hammered on these in direct proportion to the hammering of Obama on Revko.
--Talking heads? What will they find to talk about to fill the yawning gap of cable time? So will they have to start manufacturing the news to an even greater extent than they have to this point?
--Bill Clinton? Does he just go back to New York for awhile?
--Hillary's ground game. Does this seven-week respite give her the opportunity to undo her big mistake and actually build an organization in places like North Carolina?
--Seven weeks? Jeez. Do you know how long that is? Will we all survive it?
hi pogo...no biking yet...it's been weeks on end here, and last night we got another deep layer of snow...my stoop is a two-steps-up stoop, and the entire porch had about 4 inches of snow, and it broke my back shoveling the walk...it felt like a foot of new snow but I didn't even check...I bought a new bike Saturday, on sale, nothing fancy, just a cheapo to use for running my dog.
Pogo,
thank you thank you. Do you think black jeans would work or do I need to dress up? Remember i live in Wooster, Ohio small town. The office is a small place in the middle of town.
Jamie, didja ever see anyone so HAPPY in your life as Tubbs-Jones was in the victory party last night in Columbus?
She and Governor Ted really delivered the vote, good job, Madame Representative and Governor Ted!
Carol, I've been to Wooster, and Mrs. Pogo, her ex- and their daughter all went to college there - I'm trying to recall, is there a traffic light there or just a 3 way flasher? I'd think jeans should be fine, if not a little too formal. Maybe wear snow boots and you should feel perfectly comfortable. Of course at 67, I'm betting you really don't care much, but then again, you never get a second chance to make a first impression and wouldn't want to screw pup your political careeer before it really begins (of course that first impression will probably be on people you've known for years, so it might be a little late to worry about that anyway).
Ok It's obvious I did something wrong when I tried to repost my comment from the last thread but I have no Idea how that happened. When I sent the post it was just mine but when I looked at it it was obviously something else. I am so....SO ...sorry,
Carol, I've been to Wooster, and Mrs. Pogo, her ex- and their daughter all went to college there - I'm trying to recall, is there a traffic light there or just a 3 way flasher? I'd think jeans should be fine, if not a little too formal. Maybe wear snow boots and you should feel perfectly comfortable. Of course at 67, I'm betting you really don't care much, but then again, you never get a second chance to make a first impression and wouldn't want to screw pup your political careeer before it really begins (of course that first impression will probably be on people you've known for years, so it might be a little late to worry about that anyway).
Pogo,
LOL well, we have a few lights. haha
Ok I will wear my jeans. Yes, I have met several because of helping with Hillary's campaign. In fact they encouraged me to go to the meeting. So we will see.
This will be a new chapter in my life. I am very young looking and at heart so maybe I would be a good candidate for something lolol I was on a local school board for 8 years. In fact I was the first woman on that school board. They were all farmers.
err, don't know how I got a double on the last post- I only submitted it one. I SWEAR.
And Carol, that should have been "screw up your political career" - an unfortunate (but oddly funny) typo.
I guess Truebeliever really liked the last thread and comments.LOL Maybe Craig could scrub it.
Well, Li'lPogo called needs sustenance - they had spaghetti at school for lunch, and since he was home sick yesterday after eating spaghetti, he wasn't particulary interested. Everone keep it between the lines.
Don't fret. These things happen. Something like this has happened before......well....not exactly like this, but since you are authentic, maybe you just had an authentic technical moment. ;0)
Come to think of it, I think True has hit on a great punishment for Bart Simpson: Make him transcribe all of our crawfordslister comments on a blackboard over and over again.
it's ok, truebeliever, all scrubbed and fixed now.
fyi: easy method for posting link to any past comment -- just click the date and time line to the right of commenter's screen name, then copy the url that appears in browser address bar and paste that into a new comment. it automatically creates a link.
The Noron/Jones interview doesn't seem to be up, at least not yet. Hope they might reshow, but Noron did look a shade stunned even though she recovered fast and ended the interview as soon as possible without looking too abrupt.
It's no big deal. You were there, but HAL was in control.
For what it's worth, I posted on the old thread AFTER you brought it all over here. Needless to say, I'm not risking a re-post. Besides I was directing my comments to Pogo, and he's already left for the day.
Can't find my previous post. But I've been haring all day about the chaos and confusion last night at the TX caucuses. It's all true. Now there's talk of ending the "Texas Two Step" primary process.
Craig, nice pots! Pans too!
About taking down the server, I was thinking it was TM that was over loading the servers, what with all the little packets flying around & taking up server space. Then I got to thinking, maybe it was another blog(s). Nope it's TM, and for being so popular & bringing in so much traffic to CQ, Craig should get a raise and voted 'most popular' and 'most likely' to succeed.
Obama blamed his primary losses on Hillary's criticism and news coverage that benefited her at his expense. Yeah , blame the press for being mean to you. Now you're sounding whiny.
Ok now that I am a bit shaky I think I will stop and have a couple on my way home. So Sorry again and hopefully when I check back in later I won't be such a jughead. after noon all.
I was reading the story of Bush supporting McCain. Some conservatives are threatening to sit out the election because they don't have a candidate for this election.
You know, Obama could probably get the most bang for his buck if he simply bought every Democrat voter in Pennsylvania the Sally Bedell Smith book on the Clinton years ("For Love of Politics")
It's a one-stop shop forcing you to remember everything you ever wanted to forget about the Clintons. (Bimbo eruptions, Travelgate, Vince Foster, Webb Hubbell, gays in the military, the Lippo Group, James Riady, John Huang, Ira Magaziner....et al). And the whole framework of the book was how Hillary was calling so many of the shots, pissing off Bill's staff constantly contributing to a dysfunctional White House.
I'm a Hillary backer, so I've already hurled it across the room several times and it's pretty beaten up. It's a totally biased hit-job...but it's also just well-reported enough to be effective.
And now for a change of pace, something to make all you northerners shovelling snow jealous. We Florida rednecks KNOW how to party, 'specially when Bike Week rolls around every March. Women's Coleslaw Wrestling!! Yeah!!
"But the superdelegates were created to lead, not to follow. They were, and are, expected to determine what is best for our party and best for the country. I would hope that is why many superdelegates have already chosen a candidate to support.
Besides, the delegate totals from primaries and caucuses do not necessarily reflect the will of rank-and-file Democrats. Most Democrats have not been heard from at the polls."
At the beginning of this article it is interesting to note that much of this superdelegate business is in response to Ted Kennedy shenanigans. How ironic.
Warning: release your tax filing and make it clear when you will release the archive. These are the only two things Obama can attack. He may attack your credentials on being C in C, but that's easy:
1. You pushed Bill to defend Kosovo
2. You backed plans to cripple Saddam's army in Desert Fox and advised Bill the Republicans had a point about the dangers of Saddam.
3. Clear record on Senate and CONSISTENCY between speeches to AIPAC and sanction vote, Speeches in Congress and vet support, funding military, Patriot Bill, against Port deal, increased funding for Homeland security in NY, etc.
4. Understanding the difficulties in brokering Middle East deal
5. Meeting with Foreign Leaders
6. Meeting with military leaders
7. Understanding the complexities -Gore deal with Russia was a failure leading to teachnology/weapons for Iran/ stepped back from the brink against NK and tried to secure plutonium -life is making hard choices.Pakistan showed the dangers of waiting too long to react to nuclear weaponization programs.
8. Difficulties with China their spying and military build up v our trojan horses to moderate them towards the West.
9. Missile defense but better review
10. 3Gwarfare and the need for 4Gwarfare (this one will stump Obama and remember -know the names of the world players.
11. Stress great feeling for the Clintons and how it helps in India, Europe and Africa as well as the hispanic vote and that helping in South America v Obama
12. No rewards for terrorists and carrots mean squat without sticks...learn some JFK quotes.
This should provide a good basis for defending the C in C line of defense. Say, "I attended Senate Armed Services Committees but did you attend your Committee?
Who lent Rezko the money to help him help Obama? Did Rezko help Obama's friend Khadili in 2002?
Powers, Malley, Zbig play what role in Obama staff? How are they consistent with your position on Israel?
Nail Obama on Lebanon, Syria, Iran and Pakistan.We have talked and what?
Ask Obama what he would do if Columbia needed our help. What if Chavez gave $300,000,000 to FARC?
Here's a great one: If Quds is helping spread influence in South America via Chavez and is helping FARC (a terror group) why did Obama vote against sanctioning Quds? Because Bush is a greater danger than Quds? LOL If Quds is in Lebanon helping to arm Hizb'Allah, in Syria and even in Iraq, why did Obama say he wouldn'ythave voted for sanctions though he was too busy running for President to actually vote?
I could go on but for now, this is Basic Obama defense 101. I hope Hillary is listening. Also, and I can't stress this enough, go after biased reporting and commentary. Start a media gone crazy video of the day on Hillary's site. HIre a fact checker and put clips on Youtube complete with hilarious commentary of the commentary. Don't let media out of the cage.
Also, make sure staff does not say things that damage Hillary. Hire someone just to keep track of everyone. Reponse time is the second best thing after not making a mistake in the first place.
Wendy...your post hits on one of my major problems with the whole debate about superdelegates. It's a ridiculous debate. The Claire McCaskills of the world (just to pull a random example from MSNBC today) would have us believe that the only purpose of superdelegates is as a rubber-stamp. And it's patently illogical. Why even HAVE superdelegates if they have no power to affect the outcome?
Say what you will about the wisdom of creating this class of delegates way back when, but that's a decision we're now stuck with. And to argue now that they somehow shouldn't throw their weight around is just dumb.
Maxtrue, too bad Obama has quit smoking. Because he'd definitely need to go burn one after reading your last post.
Basically, the swimsuit competition is over...and now he has to start answering actual questions. And saying "I would wish for world peace" may be good enough for Miss America, but it's not good enough to be president.
Super delegates are in a tough place. They thought that it would be an honor to be a SD, and now they have to face decisions may effect their entire political careers.
Superdelgates are to prevent Republicans and Independents from highjacking the Party's nomination. If one candidate wins more Democratic votes, wins the largest Blue states but trails another who gets Republican help and delegates from Red States, Superdelegates are vested to protect Registered Democrats. Now put Florida delegates on the sideline which would give the former candidate the led and the need for Superdelegates increases. Had Democrats prevented Republicans and Independents voting in Democratic primaries, Hillary would have no need for Superdelegates.
If I were Obama I would take an offer to be VP. He will not win this fight, nor should he. More Democrats have voted for Hillary and many of Obama's States, Republicans and Independents with go Red come November.
Hey....maybe Renee should try shredding some cabbage and throwing it in the hot tub with Rick. Who knows what kinda sparks might fly up in snowy Vermont?
Max...I agree, and great post. But more to the point, the whole Democratic primary construct is a ridiculous Rube Goldberg contraption that expends all kinds of calories and engages in untold levels of mathematical complexity...to what end, exactly?
I posted earlier today that a simple winner-take-all format (such as the GOP uses) would basically have Hillary leading Obama 1,737 to 1,537. That gets us to the same logical endpoint you got us to in your last post. And with a whole lot less room for acrimony.
Lard, I try. Zogby ought to find another line of business. If Hillary stays on message, avoids being ugly, shows emotion and calm and keeps using that make-up artist, she will keep rolling. I wouldn't push Florida now, but hell, re-vote Florida. She still wins and then this primary is over.
Obama was bitter and boring last night. And Obama, the whole world is watching if you will become President? I think far more women around the world, opressed much more than Blacks, I watching if Hillary will win. Cheap shot and it falls behind the sheer number of victimized women from Darfur to Indonesian, from Saudi Arabia to Iran. I'm sure Ahmadinejad is watching to see if he'll have to insult a woman, let alone negotiate with her.
Shelia, popular vote includes Republicans who voted to knock Hillary out and many Independents who now see McCain as a better choice. Obama trails in votes cast by Democrats. Doesn't that bother you? Should Republicans decide the Democratic primary along with Red State delegates that will remain Red States come November, or do you think Utah will go Blue, or Texas? LOL Obama picks up caucus delegates from States that have no Democratic numbers to go Blue. Fine logic.
Leher and others leave FL and MI out based on rules rules rules.
If I am a superD trying to decide the way to vote that is good for the party...I'm taking FL and MI pop vote into consideration...among other things.
When I say Hillary has a pop vote argument...she should use FL and MI pop vote too.
W/ FL and MI...if you give O' the unpledged votes in MI they are only 200K apart. If you don't...she wins pop vote. While they don't count officially...superDs should keep them in mind when making decisions for the party moving forward.
Are the superdelegates' votes private and confidential (like regular voters' ballots supposedly are) or do they become a matter of public record, so we know which superdelegates voted for each candidate?
Sorry Shelia. You're a good sport, but you might want to admit the facts here. Democrats have not given Obama his lead, Republicans and Independents have.
And Lard, you are right. Now in New York, Independents and Republicans can't vote in the Democratic primary. Democrats have screwed up. Now the one clause that can prevent the highjacking is being attacked by the more Liberal candidate as Florida is unseated. Re-vote, but Obama won't do that because he loses. Now how honest is he for that?
I agree, closed Primary. If Obama can't convince Democrats he's the better pick, then tough luck. He built his whole strategy on taking advantage of the Party's stupidity. Should he win and then gets beaten, prefect end to a dubious story. Not to take away from his character, just the method he used to pander Right and Left and slam the middle as Republican Lite.
LardassLiberal -- Thanks; it's sort of reassuring knowing that the delegates/superdelegates will know that they can be held accountable (not that Mr. Bush seems to care about being held accountable).
Hillary just needs not to screw up on stupid, trivial stuff. I agree, there should be a full-time position created in the campaign with that being the job description.
Putting the press in the bathroom next to urinals -- no matter how innocent the explanation is -- is just the kind of stupid and trivial mistake I'm talking about. It gets you nothing, it potentially could cost you a lot.
Pennsylvania -- with it's closed primary -- should be her oyster. She should kick ass there, and if they blow it they deserve to lose. But I hope her campaign is also looking at North Carolina. I don't care what the numbers or the situation-on-the-ground there is right now, but they have basically two months to come up with a winning strategy. A great showing there would truly make her impossible to stop.
I have to say this. Maybe, just maybe this party is morphing into a new Democratic Party. In your party Former Republicans and Independents are irrelevent and in my Democratic Party they are not.
Have a good evening guys. Happy pontificating over and over and over again.
I Trust Jim Leher before I trust all of you sources....no offense. lol
OK, Pile on me, been a long time.
Posted by: Sheila Hussein the Chef Nun
Lehrer...the same one who admitted his total failure to do his job in the run up to the war in eyerack..and he hasn't done much since. Bring back McNeil.
yes you would want republicans in the Democratic party because that is who you are....not that is a bad thig if you have actually become a democrat--what we don't want is Repubicans and right leaning indies posing as Democrats.
At the Convention when they do the roll call of the states, the spokesperson for the state announces the delegate totals. These are usually in line with the delegate count as awarded at the primary and/or caucus. In addition, the SDs are declared and counted within those roll call votes according to which state the SD is from. You may not know exactly how a particular SD voted but by comparing the primary vote to the total vote, you can tell how many went where.
Now the SDs can announce ahead of time or not as to whom they are supporting.
Once you have gotten through the first roll call if no one goes over the top for the nomination, all bets are off and let the horsetrading and arm twisting begin.
Another Horrible Night for Hate Hillary Clubbers and More on the Way
"This was the worst night yet for the packs of obsessive charter members of the hate Hillary Clinton club. Their first bad night came back in January when despite the gleeful, hopeful but totally false and overblown anticipation of the wrong headed pollsters that predicted a smash Obama victory, Clinton bagged New Hampshire. Tuesday's outcome was much worse for them. The same gleeful, hopeful, but just as wrongheaded pollsters and even more wrongheaded pundits deliriously wrote the epitaph for Clinton ("the end is in sight," "her Waterloo," "will Clinton stand down," and on and on the blarney headlines screamed."
Jamie...but to get to Benjamin's original point, I do think it's basically public knowledge about how each delegate is voting. If not public, in the sense of being posted on an official roll...at least it's public in the sense that the candidates will know for damn sure at that stage which individuals are with 'em, and which are against 'em.
Shelia, many Republicans I have communicated with during the primaries have told me they were voting to dump Hillary. I did make calls for the Clinton campaign and had opportunity to listen, They are hardly what the Democrats need to welcome into the Party, though I'm sure Obama welcomes their vote. And if the New Democratic Party you talk of is represented by a more Liberal figurehead in Obama, how would this actually win over Republicans? Perhaps a more moderate candidate has a chance to do what Obama claims he WILL do.
Funny, that now Republicans blogs have come to the realization that Obama is far more a threat to their conservative ideals than Hillary. So I think your logic here is faulty, but I know the spin Obama wants us to believe.
Whatacrock is fitting. I suppose Utah's delegates decided by a few thousand should be equal to NY or Ohio deicided by millions. And in NY, Republicans can't vote in the Democratic primary. You can say what you want about the Superdelegates but if they were to decide based on the popular vote, there would be no reason to have Superdelegates. Or can't you see the self-evident? Yes, the DNC rules make perfect sense...LOL. Am I to assume they are now articles of faith in the Church? I'm sure after this primary, the wise elders might clarify some things, but onward faithful Democrats, the blood-letting awaits. To hell with Registered Democrats and upward into the realm of glorious speculations where Rush and Obama dance in the light of hope.
And while you're speculating, here's some stuff Obama's sure to love:
" The rebels have released six hostages _ all Colombian politicians _ since Uribe tried to end Chavez's mediation role with the FARC in November, accusing the Venezuelan president of overstepping his mandate. The most recent to be freed said last week that hostage Ingrid Betancourt, a former presidential candidate who also holds French citizenship, is extremely ill.
Betancourt has become a cause celebre in France. French contacts with Reyes are mentioned in several documents, including a request that the French envoy, identified only as "Noe," be granted a meeting with Marulanda.
References to U.S. diplomatic overtures are scintillating, if vague.
In a Dec. 11 message to the secretariat, Marquez writes: "If you are in agreement, I can receive Jim and Tucker to hear the proposal of the gringos."
Writing two days before his death, Reyes tells his comrades that "the gringos," working through Ecuador's government, are interested "in talking to us on various issues."
"They say the new president of their country will be (Barack) Obama," he writes, saying Obama rejects both the Bush administration's free trade agreement with Colombia and the current military aid program.
Reyes writes that his response to the Americans was that the United States would have to publicly express these positions." From AP today in regards to FARC's recovered laptop. I suppose one could just replace Obama with Carter and we would have the same result.
One last FACT. The attacks on Mexico's pipelines several months ago, resembled the tactics and planning of AQ in Iraq. Bet McCain has some interesting questions for Obama, if Hillary doesn't.
"There is no rule in the politics of Democratic Party conventions that says that the contender with the largest number of pledged delegates short of the total required for nomination should automatically, by dint of that achievement, be handed the party's designation. This argument is now being put forth by Senator Obama's campaign.
Now today some in the Obama campaign and in the media are dismissing the importance of Hillary Clinton's victories in Ohio, Texas and Rhode Island as unimportant. For they argue that, by any careful analysis of the delegate selection process under the present Democratic Party proportional representation system, whatever delegate totals Senator Clinton wins through the end of this year's primary season, will not be able to overcome Senator Obama's current unsurpassable lead over Senator Clinton and therefore Obama will deserve the support of the so-called "super delegates" and should gain the nomination. But that is not how it works as we have seen in past Democratic conventions. A lead in pledged delegates is not enough. You still have to convince your party that you are the best nominee. That is what the next stage of this election is all about."
I have heard far more Obama voters say they wil stay home or vote for McCain ......for example on this list
alpha 1906 said the entire African American community in the US will sit out the election if Obama is not the candidate.
"Go ahead dooty, re-vote Florida and watch Obama lose again. Then will you be happy and support Hillary?
So,little boy Blue I have always said that I would vote for the Democratic candidate whom ever that be. The idea is is to elect a Democrat. I am a Yellow Dog Democrat. Ever heard of one of those? you may not have been here long enough to remember me saying that before many times.
If Obama's logic is accepted, then their is no purpose to the Superdelgates. Again, if you allow Republicans and Independents to vote, then Superdelegates are need to prevent a highjacking by those who are not Democrats. To assume these non Democratic votes are benign is about the same realism Obama presents in foreign policy. TE Ao post I put up is just one example of moves made by our adversaries based on Obama's words. Yes words mean something, and unfortunately, mean somethng quite dangerous. Maybe Russert will ask Obama if he plans to cut off military aid to Columbia and reject NAFTA for Columbia.
As far as resolution to Democratic problems, re-vote Flordia and Michigan. I doubt Obama wants that. Rumor had it Hillary created a strom on Cleveland that prevented Obama from winning. In Texas, Hispanics wonder why Blacks enjoy far more delegate power. Also Canada is investigating the talks between the Obama camp and their officials.
Like GAFerraro tremendously, but that was one of the worst argued opinion pieces I have ever read. It's like she's an attorney and none of the facts are in her client's favor.
Really -- cruise through the comments. Hundreds of them, and I only saw one in first 40 or so that was a lukewarm endorsement of Ferraro's position on superdelegates.
12th comment is only positive one; others use words like "absurd", "capricious" and "this is why the Democratic party has lost so many elections."
"... Republicans have been organized in several states to throw their weight behind Senator Barack Obama, the Democratic rival of Hillary Clinton. At least three former fundraisers for President Bush flushed his coffers with cash early on in the race, something the deep pockets haven't done for any candidate in their own party. With receipts topping $100 million in 2007, the first-term Illinois senator broke the record for contributions. It was a remarkable feat, considering that most Americans had not even heard of him before 2005.
The Time article went on to explain that rank and file Republicans were switching parties this spring to vote for Obama in the Democratic primaries. Though not mentioned in the piece, a group called Republicans for Obama formed in 2006 to expedite the strategy. Many states have open primaries, allowing citizens to vote for any candidate, regardless of their party affiliation. In Nebraska, the mayor of Omaha publicly rallied Republicans to caucus for Obama on February 9th, according to Fox News Channel. Called crossover voting, the tactic is playing a crucial role in what appears to be a Rove-coordinated effort to deprive Clinton of the nomination."
Only skimmed the comments, but want to say: I think open primaries is the way to go, even if you end up with some Limbaugh-inspired mouth breathers crossing party lines to interfere in your party's nomination.
Because for every miscreant there are dozens of well-intentioned voters who are independents or opposing party members voting their consciences, and why disenfranchise them? Point is to put up a candidate with a large enough base to win.
RE Florida and Michigan: I think they should revote in those states, open to indepedents if the original vote was -- and scheduled with enough time for voters to change party affiliation if they must to participate.
And then go with the results. It it's Hillary -- a clean vote. If it's Obama -- a clean vote.
It was a spoiled election in both states, and not fair to maneuver the results after the fact.
If it's expensive to fund the redo: democracy ain't always cheap.
Look at Iraq. Calculate the cost per vote there. Lives and money.
all the double- triple- and quadruple posts and the testicle testing really got me laughing..and what the hell..after the past few weeks, who couldnt use a good laugh?
i see GORDO is still hunting down blog-o-spherical nonsense.. i'm glad some things dont change :)
Shelia, I did respond to your remark further up and the one you questioned was in fact, directed at dooty. No problem.
Clinton tried to enlarge the party by his concept of "New Democrat" and more centrist liberal willing to work out real compromises to break the dead lock. He was despised by the Left for such a position. While Obama entered as a Lieberman mentor and spouted centrist lines, even suggesting nuking Iran, he decided to go Left of Hillary's centrist roadblock and pander to the more Liberal while claiming a uniter's mantel. Audacity of Hope does not trash NAFTA, yet on the stump he flipped to pander. He talked tough to AIPAC and supported widening sanctions, yet flipped on the stump. He spins pleasing words to Jews, but Malley, Zbig and Powers will not go away, notrwill Khadili or Rezko who gets his money from a Saddam crony. He makes pledges on public financing, but tries to wiggle out. The problem is just as I said months ago: as people vet his record and words they see far more triangulation and pandering than by Hillary. He wants inclusion and rejects Florida. He says he speaks for the Democrats, yet enjoys a small lead handed to him by Red States and non Democrats.
The pressure by Blacks on those Blacks supporting Hillary is disgusting and as I have said, the Superdelegates are there to prevent the interests of Democrats being highjacked by delegates and votes coming from outside the Blue Zone. Of course in battle States, red/blue mix counts, but many States Obama has taken in small caucuses simply don't represent the vested interest of the greater cause. Put another way. Obama doesn't have a prayer if Hillary States didn't vote. Hillary would have trouble too, but the comparison makes the point.
We can disagree, but this battle will go on. I think Obama comes under more intense vetting, Hillary takes Penn and it will get down to Florida and Superdelegates. In a dog fight, I think Obama loses, so perhaps making a deal for VP might be the best thing for him to do, or at least a deal that if Obama loses Penn, he is assured a VP spot, though I am not sure that helps Hillary. Adams and Jefferson couldn't get along until they were very old dudes.
I think it is important to know that there are indies out there that feel McC is better then BHO. Actually, I think if any of you would see McC in person you may have a different take on his ability to win this race.
Do rank & file democrats & many of the sd's realize that it is distinctly possible that although more Democrats actually voted for Hillary as their choice to be the Democratic nominee of the Democratic party she may not be the nominee?!
While it may be elementary to those intimately following this election, the media repeats daily that Obama has won the popular vote & more states, leading most people who do not spend quite as much time as many here, to simply believe that Obama has won more Democratic votes, not that in fact his lead for the most part should be attributed to Indys & Reps.
Shouldn't it be a prime consideration of the sd's that they select a candidate that a majority of the Democratic party's members voted for?
I think it is important to know that there are indies out there that feel McC is better then BHO. Actually, I think if any of you would see McC in person you may have a different take on his ability to win this race.
Just saying what I have observed.
Posted by: march5 | March 5, 2008 8:42 PM
While I admire your obvious passion for McCain. There are those of us who admired him and followed him for years. Would have voted for him too if He hadn't denied his own long held beliefs and bowed to Bush in order to get this nomination.
I believe quite a few on this blog feel a bitter pill when It comes to mcCain. Thanks for your comment though.
Hey Coreen...I love your logic. As far as the media repeating its daily lies, I've finally figured out a GREAT way to pass the time during the next seven weeks.
Let's strip Tim Russert naked, smear him with pig's blood, throw a couple of log chains around him...and then set him loose in a fenced field with a couple of hungry Alaskan malamutes. Now THAT would be entertaining!!
(And after he's done, we could move on to Chris Matthews)
Oh. I forgot one detail. There needs to be, like, a foot of snow in the fenced field. Mainly to slow Tim down for the dogs and to better highlight the pig's blood as he futilely stumbles away. But also so he can talk about how much it used to snow in Buffalo. We gotta give him something, after all.
If it gets down to the superdelegates and if I understand right, BHO wants them to vote for the person who has the popular vote nation wide. What do they do with the Caucus counts? Were they included in the popular vote? I think they just determine the delegate counts in that primary. I can understand a super voting based on popular vote if they were not commited to anyone, but if they were a friend of a candidate and gave them their word they would vote for them but the popular went a different way I am not so sure they should change their vote. If I was a super I would have a problem with that. Also should they vote based on what their district or state voted if they were not commited to a candidate. I am not sure what the right answer would be. Glad I don't have to make that decision.
If I were a SD I would vote for who ever I wanted....... Unless of course, my whole livelyhood depended on it..... there are so many problems with this method......
"If it's expensive to fund the redo: democracy ain't always cheap."
Couldn't agree more, dog....those states have to vote, and have them count. Howard Dean has been a great disappointment. Harold Ford would have been a much better choice.
The popular vote is interesting. BHO is leading if you take out FL and MI. Adding them both in Hillary is leading. If you just add FL, BHO is still leading. In any case it's very close. Pa could flip the numbers. I don't know what to do with the Caucus counts.
There is all kinds of problems with this method but that's what we got and we got to live with it. In the future this system got to go. I hate to see any of the SD's getting death threats over this. It's not worth it. If I was a SD and got a threat I would go to my candidate and talk to them about it and together we could make a decision.
You guys: re your technicolor plans for Tim Russert:
what if he LIKES it? We have no idea what the guy does on his days off, and he may have a masochistic streak, given the crowd he occasionally runs with.
The rules were the SD's could make their own decisions. What would you do if you were a SD. If I was not commited to anyone I would use the popular vote, that could override what my state voted for. If I was commited to someone that would stand no matter what. Personal friendship is very important.
Jamie...Honey? Fire ants? Tim Russert? I like you.
Or, better yet, to channel Hedley Lamar in Blazing Saddles...
"Kinnnnnnky...."
Still...I think my Alaskan-malamute-pigsblood-snowy-fenced-field scenario trumps because it accommodates the gratuitous Russert-invoking-Buffalo angle.
Other way leave FL as is, for whatever reason BHO put his name on the ballot and it was a fair election. In MI he left his name off, I would have a re vote there.
If Florida and Michigan were badly handled and the rule is they don't count...all right they don't count.
The rule for super delegates is that they are not bound and Obama is trying to change that rule.
There is nothing over broad in any statement and and pointing out a fact is not whining --or is that another Obama rule --if you point out Obama hypocrisy your are whining.
It's going to be one of the hardest decisions a SD could make in their entire life. They have to vote with their gut, not be told by either candidate trying to change the rules for them.
2) do you have any idea how peeved I was to hear about your garden work when we're sitting under another pile of snow..and another one coming Saturday? next time, buddy, keep it to yerself..
"Granholm, a Democrat, and Florida Gov. Charlie Crist, a Republican, issued a joint statement Wednesday demanding that their states' delegates be seated. "We each will call upon our respective state and national party chairs to resolve this matter and to ensure that the voters of Michigan and Florida are full participants in the formal selection of their parties' nominees," the statement said.
Crist told reporters at a news conference Tuesday that he does not support having another primary at taxpayer expense. He said he discussed the option with Sen. Bill Nelson, the state's senior Democrat. "He said the only way to consider the possibility of that is to have the Democratic National Committee pay for it," Crist said. The Florida Democratic Party said the state estimates the cost would be $25 million.
Getting funding from the national committee might be difficult when the party has a general election to wage. Last August, the DNC offered to spend $800,000 for a later caucus, but the Florida state party rejected the idea because the amount would have only been enough to set up 150 caucus sites for the state's 4.1 million Democrats. "It wasn't a real offer. It just wasn't. It was not something anybody could agree to with a straight face," said state party spokesman Mark Bubriski."
Do-Over in Michigan and Florida?
By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer
I think I like Maxine Waters approach to the whole superD issue. She's sticking with Hillary because she thinks she's the best candidate they can put forward and to those who would threaten her congressional district seat (JJjr) she says:
Forget who she is for a second, her decision is based on her gut and I wish the rest of the SD's would follow her lead. I know I said earlier that Popular vote would play a role, this is another way of making a good decision. Being commited and going back on your word is a tough one.
"What Obama has to worry about is the Sanjaya effect. Young girls swooned for him when the crooner was on American Idol and he was swarmed as the hottest celebrity at the White House Correspondent's Dinner last year. Now, if anyone remembers who he was, they have to wonder, "What the hell was that all about?"
This has absolutely nothing to do with this thread or politics but it shows what kind of beings some people are breeding. I have cried and cried after watching this clip. How can humans be so cold and inhumane? This damn solider takes a little puppie and throws him high into the air and off of a cliff. Is this what the military is turning soldiers into? I can't stand this kind of stuff. It breaks my heart and they are laughing about it. What has happend to humanity?
I'm sure you'll try to get Maxine dumped, Alpha. Betray a black woman who has been one helluva voice for her constituents. All because you want tax breaks to keep your kid in private school and screw welfare moms. Nice generation, yours. You should probably be voting Republican.
"Two years before the Lewinksy affair, prosecutors and a Republican-controlled Congress focused on the suicide of deputy White House counsel Vince Foster, a longtime law firm partner of Hillary Clinton.
Documents pertaining to Whitewater had been moved out of Foster’s office by White House aides after his death. Were the records of Hillary Clinton’s work for the McDougals’ failing savings and loan among them? And where were the records now?
Her legal work for the S&L seemed minimal. But prosecutors could not be sure because they never could seem to find her time sheets documenting what services she had provided to McDougal.
The missing billing records became the Rosetta Stone of Whitewater. Congress wanted them, as did Starr’s office.
Then one day in early January 1996, out popped the records from the White House family residence. The pile of computer printouts detailed her work for the McDougals’ failing S&L in the mid-1980s. A Clinton staffer said she had found the printouts stashed in a box in a storage room.
Prosecutors were furious. They had issued a subpoena for the billing records 18 months earlier. The prosecutors summoned Hillary Clinton, making her the only first lady to appear before a federal grand jury.
The billing records did not present a pretty picture regarding Hillary Clinton. They showed that she drafted a real estate document regulators later said had misled bank examiners. Prosecutors concluded that McDougal and others had used her legal work to conceal unlawful activity.
Had she obstructed the investigation by hiding the billing records? Had the records been removed from Foster’s office after his suicide? Neither prosecutors nor Congress were able to answer the questions.
She said she did not know where the billing records had been and that she could not recall the work she had done for the S&L 10 years earlier.
Prosecutors concluded they did not have enough to prove that she was a knowing participant in the criminal conduct by McDougal or others."
There are many questions still unanswered that needs to be brought into the light of day about how those records ended up in the White House.
Also Fascist Nazi Propagandist Rush Limpballs and others encouraged Republicans in Texas to vote for Hillary so she could win the Primary and bloody up both her and Obama during the long nomination fight that would ensue.
The Republicans know that Hillary would be an easier opponent to beat in the General Election and questions like I brought up above would once again be in the media spotlight along with many others that could swing the vote there way.
"Also Fascist Nazi Propagandist Rush Limpballs and others encouraged Republicans in Texas to vote for Hillary so she could win the Primary and bloody up both her and Obama during the long nomination fight that would ensue."
Oh sure...and those emails going out by the thousands to concerned Texans from VOTE FOR OBAMA AND BURY THE CLINTONS FOR GOOD didn't influence anyone? I know people who got six of 'em a day, Anon. So think before you spread stuff.
Plus -- I am starting to realize that you are in realty just another Right Wing Clinton smear operative from the 1990's, masquerading as a paranoid. You just can't stand that after your boy Ron Reagan we had one good liberal president.
"Also Fascist Nazi Propagandist Rush Limpballs and others encouraged Republicans in Texas to vote for Hillary so she could win the Primary and bloody up both her and Obama during the long nomination fight that would ensue."
Oh sure...and those emails going out by the thousands to concerned Texans from VOTE FOR OBAMA AND BURY THE CLINTONS FOR GOOD didn't influence anyone? I know people who got six of 'em a day, Anon. So think before you spread stuff.
Plus -- I am starting to realize that you are in realty just another Right Wing Clinton smear operative from the 1990's, masquerading as a paranoid. You just can't stand that after your boy Ron Reagan we had one good liberal president.
I have never in 41 years voted for a Republican President. What I posted above is no different from what all you Hillary supporters are posting with your innuendo's about Obama.
Actually now I no longer care who wins the General. In fact I think that this year I will vote for Nader as if this goes to convention there will be no Democratic Party left.
So you can stuff that in your pipe and smoke it as far as I give a damn.
And I still think that we will have no elections as the Republicans will give Hillary the same powers that the Unitary Executive has that can get this whole administration arrested after being labeled Enemy Combatants under the MCA of 2006.
You remember that bill don't you. The Democrats caved in and helped pass that bill. Its the one that gives immunity for War Crimes under the American War Crimes Act and removes the right to Habeas Corpus.
No right to a lawyer or court hearing and indefinite detention once the President declares your an Enemy Combatant.
Since the Republicans say Hillary is Vile, Hateful, Vengeful and other things do you really believe that they want her or any Democrat to have the power to arrest a whole past administration? I don't think so.
So you just go ahead and believe what you will and when all those new young voters stay home like the Conservative Republicans do when they don't like there choices so will all those new members Obama brought in. As well as 80 to 90% of the African American Voters.
Good luck in the General that is if we have elections and get ready to say President McCain.
God Bless.
PS: I voted for the cheating Bill Clinton both in 92 and 96. I will never vote for a Clinton again.
Just got on and it look like everyone had a good time taking shots at each other.:)
It's going to be a fun 6-7 weeks until PA..
ET:
I'm not sure when you left town but S. Pederson got her Captain License for her sailing yacht. i think she co-owns it with a good friend.
Sarah went with my wife and I to the Obama rally in Seattle last month. She tells me she's mad at you for being a Clinton nut among other things..:-)
My wife works with her at the Library.
later.
Anon -- Sorry pal, but if you parrot Rethug talking points and are one of those fools hanging around Bill Clinton's "cheating" shorts then you did help usher in GW Bush.
And if you think this brave new world of hope and accomodation will get you any indictments, keep kidding yourself.
What fascinates me is the number of people who feel they can say anything and then act hurt if responded to. Or worse yet, pull a Scarlet O'Hara: "My, oh, my, what DID I evah say?!"
Understanding what went wrong at first and how they have kinda shored up the campaign....I say kinda because after reading this, it looks as though she still has some work to do
Hillary says I have the experience to be President, however Barak Obama don't and will not be ready day 1 to take office.
He can also say it about Hillary.
Hillary has already admitted that I have the experience to be Commander in Chief on day 1.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When everyone on the Democratic side bashes each others candidate this don't help the party and gives the Republicans ammo to use against whomever the candidate is come November.
That is if we have elections.
So go ahead everyone and destroy both Hillary and Obama's reputations as that's how Republicans operate. And let this go to convention and see what's left of the party come November.
And like I said I don't give a damn what Patsi thinks she can go ....... or whatever.
The Democrats enabled Der Fuhrer Bush and gave him all the laws that helped destroy the Constitution. Even Bill Nelson voted for the MCA of 2006 and I will never forgive him for that.
Now its been reported that once again Nancy Pelosi is ready to give GWB his immunity in the Protect America Act.
Least we not also forget that the American People gave the Democrats the House and tried to give them the Senate and Charles Schumer came up with the scheme to run Judas Iscariot Lieberman as the Connecticut for Lieberman Party candidate.
When it was apparent Judas would be rejected by the Connecticut Democrats they were out getting the signatures needed to get him on the ballot for a independent run.
If I recall the papers had to be filed the day after the Primaries and they were.
Schumer also along with Diane Feinstein gave us the new AG who will not seat a Grand Jury to bring charges against Bolton and Mier for Contempt of Congress, so much for the Rule of Law.
And who's holding a woman back from becoming the first woman President of America.
If Nancy Pelosi would have done her job and upheld her Oath to the Constitution by starting Impeachment Hearing against Bush and Cheney she would be next inline and could have made Hillary her VP.
Also the continued destruction of our first line of defense at home, the National Guard would not be almost destroyed like they are now, the Army wouldn't be lowering standards and recruiting felons and gang bangers and our Constitution, Economy and Country wouldn't be on the verge of a Depression.
"Oh sure...and those emails going out by the thousands to concerned Texans from VOTE FOR OBAMA AND BURY THE CLINTONS FOR GOOD didn't influence anyone? I know people who got six of 'em a day, Anon. So think before you spread stuff."
And so should you Patsi. If you have proof that these emails came from the Obama Camp than you should notify the proper authorities. If you don't have proof you should stop spreading the rumor.
I highly doubt that Obama would do anything to destroy a party candidate. Those are Republican Tactics and they use them all the time.
Just because Obama don't go after Hillary and there is plenty out there to do it with, doesn't mean he's not a fighter. So once again go ahead and help the Republicans destroy the Democratic Party as all this bashing makes Democrats no different than Republicans and only helps them.
"Oh sure...and those emails going out by the thousands to concerned Texans from VOTE FOR OBAMA AND BURY THE CLINTONS FOR GOOD didn't influence anyone? I know people who got six of 'em a day, Anon. So think before you spread stuff."
And so should you Patsi. If you have proof that these emails came from the Obama Camp than you should notify the proper authorities. If you don't have proof you should stop spreading the rumor.
I highly doubt that Obama would do anything to destroy a party candidate. Those are Republican Tactics and they use them all the time.
Just because Obama don't go after Hillary and there is plenty out there to do it with, doesn't mean he's not a fighter. So once again go ahead and help the Republicans destroy the Democratic Party as all this bashing makes Democrats no different than Republicans and only helps them.
" If you have proof that these emails came from the Obama Camp than you should notify the proper authorities. If you don't have proof you should stop spreading the rumor."
I did not say they came from Obama. I'm quite sure they came from Republicans.
Sheila...thanks for that washpost link. That was a good story.
It really is scary how the Clintons seem to thrive personally in dysfunctional organizations that are of their own making. That's actually the core at all the bad memories brought back by reading that Sally Bedell Smith book.
If the screen doesn't seem to be responding, try hitting the REFRESH button on your browser rather than hitting SUBMIT a second time. Nine out of 10 times, you'll see that your comment has been posted.
This has to be one of the biggest news items of the year, if the public latches on to it.
"March 6, 2008 -- 7:10 a.m. EST
When a Carlyle Unit
Can't Meet Margin Calls
By JOSEPH SCHUMAN
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL ONLINE
The crisis in the credit markets has come to this: A publicly traded investment fund of influential private-equity player Carlyle Group today acknowledged it failed to meet margin calls totaling a relatively paltry $37 million, that it has received default notices and that it expects more."
Wiki onto "Carlyle Group" and scroll down to the political portion of things. It's a who's who of the internationally well connected cadre of conservative movers and shakers.
Carlyle Group has been linked to all kinds of deals in the Middle East, many of which I believe not to be in our national interest.
To have Carlyle missing a margin call is like us missing our credit card payments, mortgage payment, and every other payment.. The next step is forced liquidation of assets that have been pledged as security.
This situation has the potential of completely derailing Repug politics for the foreseeable future.
The Wash Post article was good -- seems like a lot of "unnamed sources" and "senior staffers" though. Easy to say that. Sort of like when Maureen Dowd says, "I have this friend who calls Hillary supporters shoulder pad feminists." Meaning Maureen made it up. But two people who needed to be gone for a long time: Mark Penn and Terry McAuliffe.
I heard that BHO had a friendship with a person who had some kind of connection with the first Twin Tower bombing. Does anybody know this person's name?
This is a great NYTimes graphic showing where we stand in the delegate voo-doo at the moment, and how things would need to play out in remaining states for either candidate to win.
Good to see all is peaceful here in Crawford Country. LOL
AP makes a lot of good points about the loss of the constitution and rule of law, but old friend, you are wrong about who gave us GWB - that was Al Gore - for rejecting Clinton's help in the '00 election - and the Supreme Court for stopping the counting, allowing disenfranchisement of Florida voters, and making sure in doing so that GWB won FL. The rest of what you said, except the suggestion about the RLF billing records is either correct or at least worth considering.
Patsi, one thing AP is not is a Republican. In his zeal to bury Hillary, he, like many other Obama supporters (he may no longer be one now that he's become an independent) will be parroting the same lines as the repugs,and vice versa, but it doesn't mean they are repugs. Same thing is going to happen in Nov.. - McCain will be parroting what Hillary says about Barack or what Barack says about Hillary. It's just politics, it's gonna happen, and WADR,AP, if that means that McCain gets elected, that's what democracy is all about. You don't like it? Neither do I, but it comes with the territory if you're a democrat. But it won't be because I or any responsible supporter of the democratic party stayed home. And if after the primary season is over, if Obama wins and can't then win the general, look to Obama and the American people - those that vote for the old codger and those who were too f@#$king immature to act like adults and vote their own interestand the interest of their rights and country instead of staying home and pouting like 3 year olds who had a toy taken away to fix blame- it will not have been Hillary's fault.
And with regard to Hillary''s billing records, give me a f*&*king break - they were 10 years dead when they were pored over by the get Clinton at any cost mother f*#%er Ken Starr and he couldn't find anything to go after her with, so don't claim they now need to be looked at. Maybe you forgot to say they need to open another investigation into Vince Foster and travelgate. What a bunch of shit. That's the best the Obama camp has? That's what you think the election should be based on? That's all been beaten until its nothing less than a bloody pulp and there was nothing there, and there is nothing honest about saying it hasn't been examined sufficiently. Yeah, I think she should release her tax return for last year, just to take the issue away if nothing else - if it's finished. I don't know a lot of multimillionaires, but I'm betting that most of them wait until April 15 to file so they can delay paying the tax they owe. I can't even imagine being in that tax bracket, but I don't even look at my taxes until the end of March because I always have to pay.
I would like to see this campaign go forward and have the issues that people give a shit about discussed instead of trying to savage the other candidate over things that are long since dead - and I don't claim not to have engaged in that in the past,but things changed Tuesday when McCain became the repug candidate. Clinton isn't quitting, and she and Obama need to wake up,understand that if they turn the corner and go negative, it will have an impact on the campaign to November. Oh,and before you throw brickbats at me about the 3 o'clock phone call ad being negative, it wasn't - it was an issue ad about experience - just as Obama's 3 o'clock response ad wasn't negative -it was an issue ad about judgment. Every ad that draws a distinction between the candidates has a negative side to it,but that does not mean the ad is an attack ad.
Sorry about the long post - but this is ridiculous.
Patsi...the WashPost story about the Clinton camp is solid and rings true.
It may be based on unnamed sources, but it's still several levels above the average MoDo column, which is based on the voices she hears inside her head and the inter-galactic signals she picks up in her dental fillings.
and lardass, thanks for the tip on hitting submit on ly once, then refresh after it looks like nothing is happening (it also works after those annoying "Cannot display ...internal server error messages). It just worked for me despite my almost irrepressible urege to hit Back then Submit again.
Gail Collins is such a breath of fresh air. And such an adult.
She actually bases her wit and observational humor on the reality we all share. By contrast, MoDo is limited to observing and writing about the metal shavings that are moved by the magnet of her warped imagination.
It was Patsi who said I and others gave America GWB, not I.
I had posted that first post with the Rezko crap at the top and the comment got eaten. I forgot to put it in the replacement one that took.
I was using the billing records as an example of what will be said by the Repugs come November and the fact that innuendo is being used by the Hillary supporters on this blog over and over.
Everyone says that Obama is soft because he hasn't gone negative on Hillary like she has on him. And everything said here and on other sites will be used against whomever the candidate is come November.
I see no reason in helping the Repugs get new talking points to use against either candidate, but that is just what everyone is doing when they use the same tactics as Repugs do against members of their own party.
And if this does go to convention and Obama has won more states and has more pledged delegates and Hillary twist arms for the nomination then kiss the Democratic Party goodbye.
It will split in November and they will lose the General, if we have elections. That's a fact.
You don't have to like it, however its the truth because both sides will feel betrayed. So everyone better start slamming Repugs instead of each others candidate.
That's all I was trying to point out and if anyone thinks I'm wrong than so be it.
Thanks for your reality check. Though I don't know you, I could almost hear your passion in reading the riot act to the gang. I would expect no less from a fellow attorney.
By the way, lest we forget, we are approaching 4,000 Americans dead as a result of the debacle in Iraq. To date, 3,974, I believe.
You know, the most interesting insight I got from the Post story was the mathematical brilliance of Obama's "small-state" strategy.
In other words, that winning big a small state like Idaho can produce as much or more of a net gain in raw delegates than narrowly losing a major state like Texas or New Jersey.
It seems so obvious once you think about it, but even the smart cookies in the Clinton campaign were caught off guard. And even though it totally warps the process and is a disservice to the broader interests of the party, you can't deny its brilliance.
I hope the Dems will streamline and tweak the rules a bit for 2012, based on the lessons learned this year.
Sheila, you chef nun, you, great WaPo article - even I, an admitted Clinton koolaid drinker, think it is a fascinating look at the inside of the campaign. Now go cook.
AP, I do not believe the party will split in August, any more than it has split in the past when the nominating process was not settled before the convention. The last real Dem split was 40 years ago, and I think most of the party said a less than fond good riddance to George Wallace (then my state's governor), even though that brought us Richard Nixon, and the South never came back to the Democratic column. If I was given the power to choose the dem party with Wallace and all he stood for or thenational hell of Nixon, I'd probably still say "Good bye, George." Hell, I loved watching the conventions when they were still interesting instead of a bunch of speeches by those who have been or want to be. One of us will be wrong. Check with me in November.
It doesn't matter to me who brought up what - the fact is the level of rancor between you and Patsi (whose passion I love) was off the charts. And WADR old friend, suggesting what the repugs will dredge up in Nov., whether it is against Obama or Clinton, can easily be mistaken as a passive aggressive way to bring those subjects up now,and since they were on the table, I thought I'd respond. I think we know what they will suggest about Obama - we've discussed it here for the past 2 months -and he will respond effectively, I hope.
Faltus - you're welcome.
Coreen, another law'er? Where, and in what area do do you practice? We have a mass/toxic tortsattorney, a business/corporate attorney and a family law attorney regularly on the board now.
flatus, what do you think She's putting in her dishes that you shouldn't have? Is it the salt, the sugar, the carbs or the fat? This getting old shit stinks, no?
econ, good lord. Her comments are not exactly reflective of a message of hope, are they? I've got to say, Michelle Obama doesn not make me think "great first lady."
Get this Florida is saying it will remove the name of the Democratic nominee from the ballot in Nov, if their delegates aren't seated. OUCH!!!!
i just read that on abc website i hope its not true ....boy the DNC really has got themselves painted in a corner with their stupid rules and proportional delagates and open primaries ......i also read that HRC has more democrat votes and the repub and independent votes are what has obama ahead in the pop vote .........may be this should go to convention and force this party to regroup and change this stupid system
Pogo...re Michelle as First Lady. I think it would be EXACTLY the same dynamic that played out with Bill and Hill in '92, and going forward. She will become a lightning rod for anyone who wants to demonize the administration. That's just the way it will be.
Same will happen with Bill if Hillary wins. But, hey, we've been to that movie before and we know how the Clintons will react.
Unfortunately, the only way to not be controversial as a First Spouse is to be a shrinking violet or a wallflower. I don't see Michelle suiting up for that role. Not at all.
Pogo said, "flatus, what do you think She's putting in her dishes that you shouldn't have? Is it the salt, the sugar, the carbs or the fat? This getting old shit stinks, no?"
To the first part:
--Circle 'D', all of the above
To the second part:
--Of course it does. No surprises there. In American society, older people are a redundant nuisance.
zumper, I don't think the independent votes shouldn't be considered intotal vote count. I would argue that Repug votes should not be considered when determining which candidate has the most votes, but from a practical standpoint, I don't see how you could accomplish that.
Now, I have to admit I hate the system we have now - it is a nightmare. Just noodling, here., but if I were someone in a position to run for DNC chair, because of the awful problems apparent in the current system thanks to this election, I would run on a platform that would focus on making sure that every vote cast counted by having a nominating process that (1) gets rid of proportional delegate allocation (although if the rest of the following platform planks were adopted, could live with it), (2) makes all primary contests one person, one vote, secret ballot (3) getting rid of caucuses (4) allows only party members or unaligned voters who do not vote in another party's primary to vote, (5) gets rid of superdelegates, and (6) sets a primary calendar with begin and end dates that apply to all states and that distributes the contestsmore or less evenly across the campaign period. If proportional delegate allocation were retained,the method of awarding delegates should take into account both popular vote and numbers of either counties or congressional districts won. And to take it a step further,I would start a campaign to amend the constitution to get ridof the anachronistic electoral college.
pogo bin agogo, last night on a radio talk show here in Boston the host was referring to her call in guests as 'ah, yet another sloth'. There's putting your foot in your mouth, buy Michelle is getting pretty close to the having entire inventory of Payless Shoes in there right now!
LL, points well made, and well taken. Of course,I wouldn't want to have to tour the White House at Christmas on HGTV with Cindy McCain, either. But then since she is apparently superglued to John's elbow, that might not happen anyway.
I have been an attorney in Stratford/Trumbull, CT since 1980. I consider myself a "country lawyer", with a bit of knowledge in various areas--bankruptcy (on the rise as you probably now) probate, real estate, personal injury (only from plaintiff's side). I do not practice criminal or family law, nor am I a "specialist" in a particular area of the law.
My days could be spent arguing, however, as you know, sometimes the art of compromise is the only realistic approach.
Since I started reading these comments, I have found that must of you have a wealth of valid opinions (diverse as they may be) but at times the rancor that is expressed causes me to cringe. Your consistent attempts to mediate the dialogue are welcome.
econ, pogo is fine, no need to refer to me with my complete name (which could change at any moment). Yes, only Cindy the Stepford spouse, whose only campaign utterances thus far have been "Uh-huh" and "I've always been proud of my country" doesn't have hoof in mouth disease.
Well, coreen, welcome aboard. That gives us a nice complement of additional legal perspectives - I've done both plaintiff and defense work, all in WV, although I've been on the defense side for a number of years now. I always laugh when I tell people that of all the actors in the legal system, I hate prosecutors and the insurance companies the worst - and insurance companies are the ones that pay my bills. And yep, compromise iscertainly the name of the game. my e-mail is larry,dot.chafin,at.steptoe,hyphen.johnson,dot.com if you're inclined to drop me an e-mail. I like to exchange e-mails with fellow attorneys here - you never know when a direct offline conversation about something a discussin here sparks might come in handy. Networking and all that, you know.
Pogo.... it's official..... I am a bonafide prune!
taking another chlorine break today.... going shopping at LaHouts....
I think those of you who say do a revote in Florida and Michigan have no real concept of how elections are paid for.... just stating that democracy is messy and therefore expensive.... so let's do a revote,,,, shows a lack of understanding.....
elections (and primaries) are paid for by the tax payers of each town and city..... they are part of a city's budget.... same as policmen and teachers.....
in these troubled financial times.... I'd bet that most city and town budgets are like my own hick town's.... cut to the bone to keep taxes down as much as possible because if they aren't the voters will hand your ass to you in upcoming local elections...
so if your state is ordered to do a revote and it's not paid for by the national party.... where does your town or city get the funds to do another election.... you must find the money, so what do you cut in order to do it..... do you cut the police dept..... or maybe the school budget..... or maybe the rec. dept...... hell just let the kids roam the streets.... how about not repaving local roads..... remember, the money must come from someone's department....
and if this happens to your town because of a f**ked up democratic party.... do you think that will make people happy and vote for democrats in the general...
if the citizens of Florida or Michigan are forced to pay for another primary..... I say you can kiss those states goodbye for the democrats come Nov.
ok..... off to do some shopping..... see ya later....
I tried to once get everyone to stop bashing each others candidates with no success.
It kept getting worse and I stopped commenting on the candidates for awhile, however the constant innuendo about Obama being possibly corrupt or not honest was a smear attempt to damage him politically and what I felt was harmful to the Democratic Party.
So the exchange above since Patsi acted like I was either Zell Miller or Judas Lieberman. Something that I took great offense at as has others who have had her mock them as well for her replies to them.
I have already said that no one is going to change the other persons mind about their candidate and we shouldn't be bashing each others as it would be harmful to the party and possibly split the party come November.
A lot of commenters, some regular and new ones don't think that will happen, but it is a real possibility and should be taken very seriously.
Outside of that I have nothing further to say on the matter.
i agree with most of what you wrote ...we both agree something has to be done ....i am in favor of closed primaries to keep outsiders from trying to affect the dem party process.....and some winner take all states ....if we are going to proportion delagates the winner of the pop vote in a state should get 50% of the delagates and the remaining delagates should be proportioned...in any event the system has to be changed
how about this idea.......revote fla and mich on apr 22....make them winner take all and end this fiasco once and for all......other wise we will end up at the convention and all out war in the dem party
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Comments
** so..close.
I know BH from NYC is here already, although I can't see him.
Posted by: pogo
| March 5, 2008 3:13 PM
Note my comment - I saw it, refreshed the page, then it was gone. The honor is legitimately yours.
Posted by: pogo
| March 5, 2008 3:21 PM
BREAKING NEWS : OBAMA FIRES TIM RUSSERT AND JOE SCARBOUROUGH
HE KEEPS CHRIS MATTHEWS AND KEITH OBERMAN(hints they may be gone after pennsylvania)
jack cafferty may be in the running to replace them
Posted by: zumper | March 5, 2008 3:24 PM
Since I can't see web cam...can anyone tell me what this one is?
Posted by: Patsi | March 5, 2008 3:28 PM
Nice video, Craig. I think Sen Obama will probably have trouble coming up with a national security staff with the same level of professional qualifications/gravitas as Mrs Clinton.
She may be able to pickup a couple of the peacocks, but these aren't the types that he or the country need.
Maybe he could get a few retired professors from a couple of the national war colleges to camp out with him as a genuine public service. That group includes some very bright people.
He/we don't need a bunch of uniformed jerks trying to push their own radical agendas. Unfortunately, he probably doesn't have enough understanding of the technical aspects of warfare to know when he's being given a snow job.
Posted by: Flatus
| March 5, 2008 3:33 PM
zumper, I enjoyed it all 4 times on the prior thread and the once on this one too, but really, enough is enough.
Posted by: pogo
| March 5, 2008 3:34 PM
Oops, second para of my last should read:
"He may be able to pickup a couple of the peacocks, but these aren't the types that he or the country need."
Posted by: Flatus
| March 5, 2008 3:35 PM
So campers, whaddaya think - with six weeks between Mississippi and PA, think we could get back to discussing and arguing issues instead of throwing invectives and accusations of stupidity at each other? Could get awfully boring around here.
Posted by: pogo
| March 5, 2008 3:39 PM
btw, just out of curiosity, how'd you change your names?
Posted by: pogo
| March 5, 2008 3:40 PM
All she has to do is put up a commercial with the key lines from her China speech in a commercial and combine the women issues with the trade issues ... one whale of a commercial.
I was thinking about that Dream Ticket and decided Sen. Obama is nice and all that, but I want Stephanie Tubb Jones. She basically told Noron to shut up because she couldn't answer a question if Noron kept talking.
"I'm pretty, I don't have to be polite or shut up about MY opinion" just got set back on her vapid little heels by a beautiful, strong, brilliant woman. Hillary Clinton is darn lucky to have her for a spokesperson.
Posted by: jamie | March 5, 2008 3:43 PM
Pogo,
We need to permanently post these instructions along with the three link rule.
Click on "comment anonymously".
Type in any name you want
Don't put a check in "remember info" unless you want to keep the name.
Post as usual.
Posted by: jamie "instructions R Us" | March 5, 2008 3:47 PM
testing testicles tests.
yo soy Horsedooty!
Posted by: Hussein Horsedooty! | March 5, 2008 3:55 PM
Jamie...you mean it's this easy for me to create my alter ego?
Posted by: Lardassama bin-Liberal | March 5, 2008 3:57 PM
just seeing if this works
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 5, 2008 3:58 PM
Hi Craig,
I like your kitchen. haha
I am going to my FIRST democratic meeting tonight at 7. What should I expect? I have never gone to any political meeting in my entire 67 year life.
This should be interesting. I am setting the ground work for a potential run for a state office. How is that for high hopes. From psychologist/counselor to state rep. haha
Posted by: Carol
| March 5, 2008 3:58 PM
Since NAFTAGate...the polls have swung dramatically for Hillary:
Gallup Daily: Clinton 48%, Obama 44% (was tied yesterday and he had a 6 point adv. the day before)
Rasmussen is Clinton 48%, Obama 43% (that is an 8% gain since NAFTA Gate)
I believe these numbers do not fully reflect yesterdays results...so the next few days will be interesting.
Posted by: Wendy FIGHT ON! | March 5, 2008 4:01 PM
cool - now just to come up with a clever(er) nom de post
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 5, 2008 4:01 PM
Jamie wrote: "She basically told Noron to shut up because she couldn't answer a question if Noron kept talking."
Jamie - I must see this video - is it on the MSNBC site?
Posted by: Wendy FIGHT ON! | March 5, 2008 4:02 PM
testing testicles tests.
yo soy Horsedooty!
Posted by: Hussein Horsedooty! | March 5, 2008 4:03 PM
carol,
You can never go wrong wearing black.
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 5, 2008 4:03 PM
Nice video technique! I like it, but it may add to the legend started by Imus after you had been on, saying "I had Craig Crawford on...he's about half a wack-bag..."
Joe the Communist may not have been watching & listening, but I have, and it's no secret Imus of WABC is not the Imus of WFAN.
Remember when Bernard and I-man made the jokes about Limbaugh's Viagra issues , when Limbaugh had customs issues with multiple bottles of the pills?
That was funny, but now all Imus does is give daily praise to Limbaugh and Hannity, and we get multiple blessings from St. Imus placed on Brit Hume's head.
Now, we also get jacked-up on the "fairness" of FOX News...how I-man NEVER notices any bias or right-slanting of the news.
One of the reasons I loved Imus of WFAN was that he was a live-wire, independent as a registered repugg could be, his poking fun of pols was great television. Now he pushes FOX News as "great" and sucks up to the aforementioned reactionary blowhards.
I do applaud his trying to "be better", but Karrith is just not funny. Tony was just hilarious today with his commentary which Imus said was "genius"---it WAS genius material, I loved it. Karrith is just not funny and worse, she cannot deliver comedy. As she is about to hit a punchline, she invariably stumbles and stammers and ruins the bit. So he failed there in selecting a quality comedian.
Carl Jeffers of LA is a brilliant pol-analyst and he should be on more often. The woman named Debra (is it Dickinson?whatever) was controversial but interesting.
Jeffers challenged Imus to stand by his promises to incorporate race dialect and Imus is doing much better, but he could do even more.
He praises the great John Lewis, who happens to be my personal US political hero , but I don't think he ever has had him on.
My point, in condensed version: Imus has changed, praising the right and NOT making fun of them, and that is why I became an I-man fan in the first place. I have to record and FF a lot of the show now---I cannot listen to that goddam Brit Hume or any of those assholes from FOX Noise.
Posted by: Dexter
| March 5, 2008 4:05 PM
A few more random questions to contemplate as we stare down the barrel of the next seven weeks:
--More debates? How many and where?
--Edwards delegates? Will he want to sit on them all the way to August? Or is now the better time to play kingmaker?
--Hillary tax returns? I can't imagine she won't be hammered on these in direct proportion to the hammering of Obama on Revko.
--Talking heads? What will they find to talk about to fill the yawning gap of cable time? So will they have to start manufacturing the news to an even greater extent than they have to this point?
--Bill Clinton? Does he just go back to New York for awhile?
--Hillary's ground game. Does this seven-week respite give her the opportunity to undo her big mistake and actually build an organization in places like North Carolina?
--Seven weeks? Jeez. Do you know how long that is? Will we all survive it?
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 4:06 PM
HHD, your testicles are apparently fine. lol
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 5, 2008 4:06 PM
hi pogo...no biking yet...it's been weeks on end here, and last night we got another deep layer of snow...my stoop is a two-steps-up stoop, and the entire porch had about 4 inches of snow, and it broke my back shoveling the walk...it felt like a foot of new snow but I didn't even check...I bought a new bike Saturday, on sale, nothing fancy, just a cheapo to use for running my dog.
Posted by: Dexter
| March 5, 2008 4:11 PM
Dex, nice to see you.No cycling in OH at present from what I hear from the mistake on the lake. You OK otherwise?
LL, Bill's headed for Wyoming, then Fort Lauderdale for a couple of weeks of R&R..LOL
Seven weeks will seem like an eternity.
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 5, 2008 4:12 PM
Pogo,
thank you thank you. Do you think black jeans would work or do I need to dress up? Remember i live in Wooster, Ohio small town. The office is a small place in the middle of town.
Posted by: Carol
| March 5, 2008 4:13 PM
dex, you anticipated my question. You must be related to Carnac.
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 5, 2008 4:14 PM
Jamie, didja ever see anyone so HAPPY in your life as Tubbs-Jones was in the victory party last night in Columbus?
She and Governor Ted really delivered the vote, good job, Madame Representative and Governor Ted!
Posted by: Dexter
| March 5, 2008 4:18 PM
Did someone actually just copy and paste the last thread and all comments in their entirety?
Or was that just HAL the computer making mischief again?
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 4:20 PM
Carol, I've been to Wooster, and Mrs. Pogo, her ex- and their daughter all went to college there - I'm trying to recall, is there a traffic light there or just a 3 way flasher? I'd think jeans should be fine, if not a little too formal. Maybe wear snow boots and you should feel perfectly comfortable. Of course at 67, I'm betting you really don't care much, but then again, you never get a second chance to make a first impression and wouldn't want to screw pup your political careeer before it really begins (of course that first impression will probably be on people you've known for years, so it might be a little late to worry about that anyway).
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 5, 2008 4:21 PM
truebeliever, WHAT THE HELL YOU DOING?
Posted by: Dexter
| March 5, 2008 4:21 PM
Ok It's obvious I did something wrong when I tried to repost my comment from the last thread but I have no Idea how that happened. When I sent the post it was just mine but when I looked at it it was obviously something else. I am so....SO ...sorry,
Posted by: truebeliever | March 5, 2008 4:23 PM
Lardass, it has truebeliever's signature on it...Jesus , people!!
Posted by: Dexter
| March 5, 2008 4:23 PM
Carol, I've been to Wooster, and Mrs. Pogo, her ex- and their daughter all went to college there - I'm trying to recall, is there a traffic light there or just a 3 way flasher? I'd think jeans should be fine, if not a little too formal. Maybe wear snow boots and you should feel perfectly comfortable. Of course at 67, I'm betting you really don't care much, but then again, you never get a second chance to make a first impression and wouldn't want to screw pup your political careeer before it really begins (of course that first impression will probably be on people you've known for years, so it might be a little late to worry about that anyway).
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 5, 2008 4:23 PM
Craig...you might just want to shoot this thread in the head and repost your video as an entirely new thread. If that's possible.
Don't beat yourself up too much, True. Hell...the computer's been playing tricks on everyone the past couple days. :)
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 4:25 PM
Pogo,
LOL well, we have a few lights. haha
Ok I will wear my jeans. Yes, I have met several because of helping with Hillary's campaign. In fact they encouraged me to go to the meeting. So we will see.
This will be a new chapter in my life. I am very young looking and at heart so maybe I would be a good candidate for something lolol I was on a local school board for 8 years. In fact I was the first woman on that school board. They were all farmers.
Posted by: Carol
| March 5, 2008 4:28 PM
err, don't know how I got a double on the last post- I only submitted it one. I SWEAR.
And Carol, that should have been "screw up your political career" - an unfortunate (but oddly funny) typo.
I guess Truebeliever really liked the last thread and comments.LOL Maybe Craig could scrub it.
Well, Li'lPogo called needs sustenance - they had spaghetti at school for lunch, and since he was home sick yesterday after eating spaghetti, he wasn't particulary interested. Everone keep it between the lines.
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 5, 2008 4:30 PM
Seriously I am SO SO SORRY. The whole thread was not in the box when I sent my Post. I don't know how that happened.
Posted by: truebeliever | March 5, 2008 4:34 PM
Poor Truebeliever,
Don't fret. These things happen. Something like this has happened before......well....not exactly like this, but since you are authentic, maybe you just had an authentic technical moment. ;0)
Its OK.
Posted by: Sheila Hussein the Chef Nun | March 5, 2008 4:40 PM
Come to think of it, I think True has hit on a great punishment for Bart Simpson: Make him transcribe all of our crawfordslister comments on a blackboard over and over again.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 4:45 PM
ha, you kids been playin with threads again?
it's ok, truebeliever, all scrubbed and fixed now.
fyi: easy method for posting link to any past comment -- just click the date and time line to the right of commenter's screen name, then copy the url that appears in browser address bar and paste that into a new comment. it automatically creates a link.
Posted by: Craig Crawford
| March 5, 2008 4:49 PM
The Noron/Jones interview doesn't seem to be up, at least not yet. Hope they might reshow, but Noron did look a shade stunned even though she recovered fast and ended the interview as soon as possible without looking too abrupt.
Posted by: jamie "instructions R Us" | March 5, 2008 4:49 PM
True,
It's no big deal. You were there, but HAL was in control.
For what it's worth, I posted on the old thread AFTER you brought it all over here. Needless to say, I'm not risking a re-post. Besides I was directing my comments to Pogo, and he's already left for the day.
Posted by: EdVB
| March 5, 2008 4:50 PM
Actually Craig and Lard and ED,
I thought someone WAS REALLY wanting to make a point..... LOLOLOLOL
Posted by: Sheila Hussein the Chef Nun | March 5, 2008 4:53 PM
TB
lol
Stuff happens don't let it worry you
I will admit your post was a prize winner.
Glad I have lots of bandwith.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack | March 5, 2008 4:54 PM
And with that Truebeliever moment,
Its time for Chris Matthews, Later.
Posted by: Sheila Hussein the Chef Nun | March 5, 2008 5:00 PM
Oh someone mentioned Clinton taxes. She has announced that she will release them on or before April 15.
Posted by: jamie "instructions R Us" | March 5, 2008 5:07 PM
Sheila
Your tougher than I am,
2 net works I will not watch, Fox and MSNBC
When it comes to politics I like some intelligent comments an views.
Jack
Posted by: whskyjack | March 5, 2008 5:07 PM
Can't find my previous post. But I've been haring all day about the chaos and confusion last night at the TX caucuses. It's all true. Now there's talk of ending the "Texas Two Step" primary process.
Craig, nice pots! Pans too!
About taking down the server, I was thinking it was TM that was over loading the servers, what with all the little packets flying around & taking up server space. Then I got to thinking, maybe it was another blog(s). Nope it's TM, and for being so popular & bringing in so much traffic to CQ, Craig should get a raise and voted 'most popular' and 'most likely' to succeed.
tt
Posted by: tiptoe
| March 5, 2008 5:09 PM
Obama blamed his primary losses on Hillary's criticism and news coverage that benefited her at his expense. Yeah , blame the press for being mean to you. Now you're sounding whiny.
Posted by: Corey Huckawontbe | March 5, 2008 5:10 PM
Obama is circulating a memo asking why Hillary won't release her tax returns.
Posted by: Corey Huckawontbe | March 5, 2008 5:11 PM
"Craig should get a raise and voted 'most popular' and 'most likely' to succeed."
And CQ should get even bigger servers to handle the increasing mob. Maybe they could borrow more until after November.
Posted by: jamie "instructions R Us" | March 5, 2008 5:12 PM
Obama is circulating a memo asking why Hillary won't release her tax returns.
Posted by: Corey Huckawontbe | March 5, 2008 5:13 PM
I don't think Barack has much experience being criticized.
This is first race where he has been challenged at all.
I notice that when criticized or challenged, he gets that, I'm going to hold my breath until I get my way..look.
Posted by: Oregon Democrat | March 5, 2008 5:13 PM
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=6811314&ch=4226716&src=news
For some irreverant fun , video of Bush tap dancing, No , I don't mean questions! LOL!
Posted by: Corey Huckawontbe | March 5, 2008 5:14 PM
Ok now that I am a bit shaky I think I will stop and have a couple on my way home. So Sorry again and hopefully when I check back in later I won't be such a jughead. after noon all.
Posted by: truebeliever | March 5, 2008 5:22 PM
"video of Bush tap dancing"
I suppose it's too much to hope that Larry Craig is involved.....
Posted by: Patsi | March 5, 2008 5:22 PM
Evan Thomas is an a-hole.
Posted by: Patsi | March 5, 2008 5:24 PM
Evan Thomas is an a-hole.
Posted by: Patsi | March 5, 2008 5:26 PM
Bush = buffoon.
tt
Posted by: tiptoe
| March 5, 2008 5:30 PM
Corey,
I know I put up the info. He can take his memo and ...
She announced today that she would release her tax returns on or before April 15 once the final was completed.
Posted by: jamie "instructions R Us" | March 5, 2008 5:36 PM
It's Huckawont be. As in Huckawont be our next President.
Posted by: Corey Huckawontbe | March 5, 2008 5:40 PM
I was reading the story of Bush supporting McCain. Some conservatives are threatening to sit out the election because they don't have a candidate for this election.
Posted by: Corey Abdul Jabbar | March 5, 2008 5:49 PM
"Sen. Obama, time to call us about Rezko: (312) 321-2417"
http://www.suntimes.com/news/commentary/823666,CST-EDT-edit04b.article
ROFLMAO
Posted by: Hill Yeah Wendy! | March 5, 2008 5:53 PM
You know, Obama could probably get the most bang for his buck if he simply bought every Democrat voter in Pennsylvania the Sally Bedell Smith book on the Clinton years ("For Love of Politics")
It's a one-stop shop forcing you to remember everything you ever wanted to forget about the Clintons. (Bimbo eruptions, Travelgate, Vince Foster, Webb Hubbell, gays in the military, the Lippo Group, James Riady, John Huang, Ira Magaziner....et al). And the whole framework of the book was how Hillary was calling so many of the shots, pissing off Bill's staff constantly contributing to a dysfunctional White House.
I'm a Hillary backer, so I've already hurled it across the room several times and it's pretty beaten up. It's a totally biased hit-job...but it's also just well-reported enough to be effective.
http://www.amazon.com/Love-Politics-Hillary-Clinton-White/dp/1400063248/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204757742&sr=8-1
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 6:03 PM
Here's why the server's clogged:
Traffic Rank Trend. Click around on the top for other views.
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/03/video-trail-mix-webcam-edition.html
tt
Posted by: tiptoe
| March 5, 2008 6:07 PM
And now for a change of pace, something to make all you northerners shovelling snow jealous. We Florida rednecks KNOW how to party, 'specially when Bike Week rolls around every March. Women's Coleslaw Wrestling!! Yeah!!
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/volusia/orl-bikweek-coleslawpg,0,7031314.photogallery
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 6:13 PM
Here's why the server's clogged:
Traffic Rank Trend. Click around on the top for other views.
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/03/video-trail-mix-webcam-edition.html
tt
Posted by: tiptoe
| March 5, 2008 6:15 PM
Lard,
Now I've seen it all....Cole Slaw wrestling? And with females yet. lol
Posted by: Sheila Hussein the Chef Nun | March 5, 2008 6:16 PM
Here's why the server's clogged:
Traffic Rank Trend. Click around on the top for other views.
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/03/video-trail-mix-webcam-edition.html
tt
Posted by: tiptoe
| March 5, 2008 6:17 PM
Sheila...did you click through the whole gallery? Some pretty scary stuff in there.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 6:18 PM
:-)
tt
Posted by: tiptoe
| March 5, 2008 6:19 PM
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/myseattlepix/latest.asp?photoID=1009257
Here's one for you LL
Posted by: Sheila Hussein the Chef Nun | March 5, 2008 6:19 PM
Bear Sweetie,
If you are lurking, would like to hear from you. I care....
chefstonesheila at gee mail dot com
Posted by: Sheila Hussein the Chef Nun | March 5, 2008 6:20 PM
Lard, yes I did.
I love Pictures and I love they crazy things people do for fun!
Posted by: Sheila Hussein the Chef Nun | March 5, 2008 6:21 PM
Sheila...Awesome! A cross-dressing hybrid of Marge Simpson and Larry Fine of the Three Stooges!
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 6:23 PM
HEY! Now I recognise her!
Posted by: Sheila Hussein the Chef Nun | March 5, 2008 6:24 PM
"But the superdelegates were created to lead, not to follow. They were, and are, expected to determine what is best for our party and best for the country. I would hope that is why many superdelegates have already chosen a candidate to support.
Besides, the delegate totals from primaries and caucuses do not necessarily reflect the will of rank-and-file Democrats. Most Democrats have not been heard from at the polls."
At the beginning of this article it is interesting to note that much of this superdelegate business is in response to Ted Kennedy shenanigans. How ironic.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/25/opinion/25ferraro.html?pagewanted=all
Posted by: Hill Yeah Wendy! | March 5, 2008 6:26 PM
lard,
Going around the country, here is what the Chicago Trib is looking at. ;0)
http://www.chicagotribune.com/travel/orl-springbreak2008-pg,0,7641268.photogallery
Posted by: Sheila Hussein the Chef Nun | March 5, 2008 6:28 PM
And finally from me,
Here is a shot from Winter abroad. Nice to be in Florida for now.
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/03/05/nytfrontpage/20080305POD_12.html
Posted by: Sheila Hussein the Chef Nun | March 5, 2008 6:34 PM
Well it seems Hillary took some of my advice.
TO THE HILLARY CAMP!!!!!!!!!!!
Warning: release your tax filing and make it clear when you will release the archive. These are the only two things Obama can attack. He may attack your credentials on being C in C, but that's easy:
1. You pushed Bill to defend Kosovo
2. You backed plans to cripple Saddam's army in Desert Fox and advised Bill the Republicans had a point about the dangers of Saddam.
3. Clear record on Senate and CONSISTENCY between speeches to AIPAC and sanction vote, Speeches in Congress and vet support, funding military, Patriot Bill, against Port deal, increased funding for Homeland security in NY, etc.
4. Understanding the difficulties in brokering Middle East deal
5. Meeting with Foreign Leaders
6. Meeting with military leaders
7. Understanding the complexities -Gore deal with Russia was a failure leading to teachnology/weapons for Iran/ stepped back from the brink against NK and tried to secure plutonium -life is making hard choices.Pakistan showed the dangers of waiting too long to react to nuclear weaponization programs.
8. Difficulties with China their spying and military build up v our trojan horses to moderate them towards the West.
9. Missile defense but better review
10. 3Gwarfare and the need for 4Gwarfare (this one will stump Obama and remember -know the names of the world players.
11. Stress great feeling for the Clintons and how it helps in India, Europe and Africa as well as the hispanic vote and that helping in South America v Obama
12. No rewards for terrorists and carrots mean squat without sticks...learn some JFK quotes.
This should provide a good basis for defending the C in C line of defense. Say, "I attended Senate Armed Services Committees but did you attend your Committee?
Who lent Rezko the money to help him help Obama? Did Rezko help Obama's friend Khadili in 2002?
Powers, Malley, Zbig play what role in Obama staff? How are they consistent with your position on Israel?
Nail Obama on Lebanon, Syria, Iran and Pakistan.We have talked and what?
Ask Obama what he would do if Columbia needed our help. What if Chavez gave $300,000,000 to FARC?
Here's a great one: If Quds is helping spread influence in South America via Chavez and is helping FARC (a terror group) why did Obama vote against sanctioning Quds? Because Bush is a greater danger than Quds? LOL If Quds is in Lebanon helping to arm Hizb'Allah, in Syria and even in Iraq, why did Obama say he wouldn'ythave voted for sanctions though he was too busy running for President to actually vote?
I could go on but for now, this is Basic Obama defense 101. I hope Hillary is listening. Also, and I can't stress this enough, go after biased reporting and commentary. Start a media gone crazy video of the day on Hillary's site. HIre a fact checker and put clips on Youtube complete with hilarious commentary of the commentary. Don't let media out of the cage.
Also, make sure staff does not say things that damage Hillary. Hire someone just to keep track of everyone. Reponse time is the second best thing after not making a mistake in the first place.
Posted by: Maxtrue | March 5, 2008 6:35 PM
Wendy...your post hits on one of my major problems with the whole debate about superdelegates. It's a ridiculous debate. The Claire McCaskills of the world (just to pull a random example from MSNBC today) would have us believe that the only purpose of superdelegates is as a rubber-stamp. And it's patently illogical. Why even HAVE superdelegates if they have no power to affect the outcome?
Say what you will about the wisdom of creating this class of delegates way back when, but that's a decision we're now stuck with. And to argue now that they somehow shouldn't throw their weight around is just dumb.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 6:39 PM
Maxtrue, too bad Obama has quit smoking. Because he'd definitely need to go burn one after reading your last post.
Basically, the swimsuit competition is over...and now he has to start answering actual questions. And saying "I would wish for world peace" may be good enough for Miss America, but it's not good enough to be president.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 6:44 PM
Lard,
Be that as it may....but I for one am getting off on the whole scrappy mess.
We are the Democratic Party and Democracy is a debate. Its a fight and an argument in order to come to a consensis.
All the arguing is an education for the country. Exactly what we have needed for the last 20 years.
GO DEMOCRATS!....Borrowing from my good friend across the aile. Renee
Posted by: Sheila Hussein the Chef Nun | March 5, 2008 6:46 PM
Super delegates are in a tough place. They thought that it would be an honor to be a SD, and now they have to face decisions may effect their entire political careers.
Kind of ironic.
Posted by: march5 | March 5, 2008 6:48 PM
Superdelgates are to prevent Republicans and Independents from highjacking the Party's nomination. If one candidate wins more Democratic votes, wins the largest Blue states but trails another who gets Republican help and delegates from Red States, Superdelegates are vested to protect Registered Democrats. Now put Florida delegates on the sideline which would give the former candidate the led and the need for Superdelegates increases. Had Democrats prevented Republicans and Independents voting in Democratic primaries, Hillary would have no need for Superdelegates.
If I were Obama I would take an offer to be VP. He will not win this fight, nor should he. More Democrats have voted for Hillary and many of Obama's States, Republicans and Independents with go Red come November.
Posted by: Maxtrue | March 5, 2008 6:48 PM
Hey....maybe Renee should try shredding some cabbage and throwing it in the hot tub with Rick. Who knows what kinda sparks might fly up in snowy Vermont?
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 6:48 PM
The Count for Popular vote was reported on Jim Leher tonight. It has Obama at 600,000 more in the popular vote.
Which is a penny in a pond, but even I was surprised to see my Kahuna ahead.
Posted by: Sheila Hussein the Chef Nun | March 5, 2008 6:52 PM
Max...I agree, and great post. But more to the point, the whole Democratic primary construct is a ridiculous Rube Goldberg contraption that expends all kinds of calories and engages in untold levels of mathematical complexity...to what end, exactly?
I posted earlier today that a simple winner-take-all format (such as the GOP uses) would basically have Hillary leading Obama 1,737 to 1,537. That gets us to the same logical endpoint you got us to in your last post. And with a whole lot less room for acrimony.
End of story.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 6:55 PM
Lard, I try. Zogby ought to find another line of business. If Hillary stays on message, avoids being ugly, shows emotion and calm and keeps using that make-up artist, she will keep rolling. I wouldn't push Florida now, but hell, re-vote Florida. She still wins and then this primary is over.
Obama was bitter and boring last night. And Obama, the whole world is watching if you will become President? I think far more women around the world, opressed much more than Blacks, I watching if Hillary will win. Cheap shot and it falls behind the sheer number of victimized women from Darfur to Indonesian, from Saudi Arabia to Iran. I'm sure Ahmadinejad is watching to see if he'll have to insult a woman, let alone negotiate with her.
Posted by: Maxtrue | March 5, 2008 6:58 PM
And before you guys pile on,
I Trust Jim Leher before I trust all of you sources....no offense. lol
OK, Pile on me, been a long time.
Posted by: Sheila Hussein the Chef Nun | March 5, 2008 7:00 PM
And the whole argument about how "open primaries" help produce more electable, moderate nominees has also been shown to be hogwash this year.
Should he be nominated with the clear aid of these open primaries, Obama will be hammered as being far more liberal and less electable than Clinton.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 7:01 PM
Sheila...we'll pile on...but only if you bring the coleslaw and vegetable oil!!! LOL.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 7:03 PM
Shelia, popular vote includes Republicans who voted to knock Hillary out and many Independents who now see McCain as a better choice. Obama trails in votes cast by Democrats. Doesn't that bother you? Should Republicans decide the Democratic primary along with Red State delegates that will remain Red States come November, or do you think Utah will go Blue, or Texas? LOL Obama picks up caucus delegates from States that have no Democratic numbers to go Blue. Fine logic.
Posted by: Maxtrue | March 5, 2008 7:03 PM
Leher and others leave FL and MI out based on rules rules rules.
If I am a superD trying to decide the way to vote that is good for the party...I'm taking FL and MI pop vote into consideration...among other things.
When I say Hillary has a pop vote argument...she should use FL and MI pop vote too.
W/ FL and MI...if you give O' the unpledged votes in MI they are only 200K apart. If you don't...she wins pop vote. While they don't count officially...superDs should keep them in mind when making decisions for the party moving forward.
Posted by: Hill Yeah Wendy! | March 5, 2008 7:05 PM
Are the superdelegates' votes private and confidential (like regular voters' ballots supposedly are) or do they become a matter of public record, so we know which superdelegates voted for each candidate?
Posted by: benjaminblue | March 5, 2008 7:05 PM
Benjamin...I think all delegates votes have to be public and on the record, super or not super.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 7:09 PM
Sorry Shelia. You're a good sport, but you might want to admit the facts here. Democrats have not given Obama his lead, Republicans and Independents have.
And Lard, you are right. Now in New York, Independents and Republicans can't vote in the Democratic primary. Democrats have screwed up. Now the one clause that can prevent the highjacking is being attacked by the more Liberal candidate as Florida is unseated. Re-vote, but Obama won't do that because he loses. Now how honest is he for that?
I agree, closed Primary. If Obama can't convince Democrats he's the better pick, then tough luck. He built his whole strategy on taking advantage of the Party's stupidity. Should he win and then gets beaten, prefect end to a dubious story. Not to take away from his character, just the method he used to pander Right and Left and slam the middle as Republican Lite.
Thank you Howard Dean.....
Posted by: Maxtrue | March 5, 2008 7:11 PM
LardassLiberal -- Thanks; it's sort of reassuring knowing that the delegates/superdelegates will know that they can be held accountable (not that Mr. Bush seems to care about being held accountable).
Posted by: benjaminblue | March 5, 2008 7:13 PM
Hillary just needs not to screw up on stupid, trivial stuff. I agree, there should be a full-time position created in the campaign with that being the job description.
Putting the press in the bathroom next to urinals -- no matter how innocent the explanation is -- is just the kind of stupid and trivial mistake I'm talking about. It gets you nothing, it potentially could cost you a lot.
Pennsylvania -- with it's closed primary -- should be her oyster. She should kick ass there, and if they blow it they deserve to lose. But I hope her campaign is also looking at North Carolina. I don't care what the numbers or the situation-on-the-ground there is right now, but they have basically two months to come up with a winning strategy. A great showing there would truly make her impossible to stop.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 7:18 PM
before I leave Max,
I have to say this. Maybe, just maybe this party is morphing into a new Democratic Party. In your party Former Republicans and Independents are irrelevent and in my Democratic Party they are not.
Have a good evening guys. Happy pontificating over and over and over again.
Go Democrats!
Posted by: Sheila Hussein the Chef Nun | March 5, 2008 7:31 PM
I Trust Jim Leher before I trust all of you sources....no offense. lol
OK, Pile on me, been a long time.
Posted by: Sheila Hussein the Chef Nun
Lehrer...the same one who admitted his total failure to do his job in the run up to the war in eyerack..and he hasn't done much since. Bring back McNeil.
Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | March 5, 2008 7:31 PM
"Well it seems Hillary took some of my advice."
Yeah, right, I'm sure she's waiting with bated breath to read your next post for more advice.
Good thing you are in no way involved with the DNC party rules making.
Those menacing "Red state delegates".... why not draw and quarter them too.
Posted by: whatacrock | March 5, 2008 7:34 PM
Posted by: Sheila Hussein the Chef Nun
yes you would want republicans in the Democratic party because that is who you are....not that is a bad thig if you have actually become a democrat--what we don't want is Repubicans and right leaning indies posing as Democrats.
Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | March 5, 2008 7:37 PM
Benjamin
At the Convention when they do the roll call of the states, the spokesperson for the state announces the delegate totals. These are usually in line with the delegate count as awarded at the primary and/or caucus. In addition, the SDs are declared and counted within those roll call votes according to which state the SD is from. You may not know exactly how a particular SD voted but by comparing the primary vote to the total vote, you can tell how many went where.
Now the SDs can announce ahead of time or not as to whom they are supporting.
Once you have gotten through the first roll call if no one goes over the top for the nomination, all bets are off and let the horsetrading and arm twisting begin.
Posted by: jamie "instructions R Us" | March 5, 2008 7:39 PM
katie......WAY OFF BASE.
I'm not going to forget that slam.
Posted by: Sheila Hussein the Chef Nun | March 5, 2008 7:40 PM
Another Horrible Night for Hate Hillary Clubbers and More on the Way
"This was the worst night yet for the packs of obsessive charter members of the hate Hillary Clinton club. Their first bad night came back in January when despite the gleeful, hopeful but totally false and overblown anticipation of the wrong headed pollsters that predicted a smash Obama victory, Clinton bagged New Hampshire. Tuesday's outcome was much worse for them. The same gleeful, hopeful, but just as wrongheaded pollsters and even more wrongheaded pundits deliriously wrote the epitaph for Clinton ("the end is in sight," "her Waterloo," "will Clinton stand down," and on and on the blarney headlines screamed."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/earl-ofari-hutchinson/another-horrible-night-fo_b_89967.html
Posted by: GORDO | March 5, 2008 7:43 PM
Chef Hussein
not a slam....am I remembering wrong? Didn't you vote for Ronnie Raygun and at least one member of the Shrub clan....if I am wrong...I apologize
I thought you were a reformed Republican....
Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | March 5, 2008 7:43 PM
Jamie...but to get to Benjamin's original point, I do think it's basically public knowledge about how each delegate is voting. If not public, in the sense of being posted on an official roll...at least it's public in the sense that the candidates will know for damn sure at that stage which individuals are with 'em, and which are against 'em.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 7:44 PM
Shelia, many Republicans I have communicated with during the primaries have told me they were voting to dump Hillary. I did make calls for the Clinton campaign and had opportunity to listen, They are hardly what the Democrats need to welcome into the Party, though I'm sure Obama welcomes their vote. And if the New Democratic Party you talk of is represented by a more Liberal figurehead in Obama, how would this actually win over Republicans? Perhaps a more moderate candidate has a chance to do what Obama claims he WILL do.
Funny, that now Republicans blogs have come to the realization that Obama is far more a threat to their conservative ideals than Hillary. So I think your logic here is faulty, but I know the spin Obama wants us to believe.
Whatacrock is fitting. I suppose Utah's delegates decided by a few thousand should be equal to NY or Ohio deicided by millions. And in NY, Republicans can't vote in the Democratic primary. You can say what you want about the Superdelegates but if they were to decide based on the popular vote, there would be no reason to have Superdelegates. Or can't you see the self-evident? Yes, the DNC rules make perfect sense...LOL. Am I to assume they are now articles of faith in the Church? I'm sure after this primary, the wise elders might clarify some things, but onward faithful Democrats, the blood-letting awaits. To hell with Registered Democrats and upward into the realm of glorious speculations where Rush and Obama dance in the light of hope.
And while you're speculating, here's some stuff Obama's sure to love:
" The rebels have released six hostages _ all Colombian politicians _ since Uribe tried to end Chavez's mediation role with the FARC in November, accusing the Venezuelan president of overstepping his mandate. The most recent to be freed said last week that hostage Ingrid Betancourt, a former presidential candidate who also holds French citizenship, is extremely ill.
Betancourt has become a cause celebre in France. French contacts with Reyes are mentioned in several documents, including a request that the French envoy, identified only as "Noe," be granted a meeting with Marulanda.
References to U.S. diplomatic overtures are scintillating, if vague.
In a Dec. 11 message to the secretariat, Marquez writes: "If you are in agreement, I can receive Jim and Tucker to hear the proposal of the gringos."
Writing two days before his death, Reyes tells his comrades that "the gringos," working through Ecuador's government, are interested "in talking to us on various issues."
"They say the new president of their country will be (Barack) Obama," he writes, saying Obama rejects both the Bush administration's free trade agreement with Colombia and the current military aid program.
Reyes writes that his response to the Americans was that the United States would have to publicly express these positions." From AP today in regards to FARC's recovered laptop. I suppose one could just replace Obama with Carter and we would have the same result.
One last FACT. The attacks on Mexico's pipelines several months ago, resembled the tactics and planning of AQ in Iraq. Bet McCain has some interesting questions for Obama, if Hillary doesn't.
Posted by: Maxtrue | March 5, 2008 7:53 PM
KGC said this, "what we don't want is Repubicans and right leaning indies posing as Democrats."
I suspect that there are several on this list already. Several posters have stated they would vote for McCain if Obama was the nominee.
yo soy Hussein Horsedooty!
Posted by: Hussein Horsedooty! | March 5, 2008 7:54 PM
Obama and The Myth of Pledged Delegates
"There is no rule in the politics of Democratic Party conventions that says that the contender with the largest number of pledged delegates short of the total required for nomination should automatically, by dint of that achievement, be handed the party's designation. This argument is now being put forth by Senator Obama's campaign.
Now today some in the Obama campaign and in the media are dismissing the importance of Hillary Clinton's victories in Ohio, Texas and Rhode Island as unimportant. For they argue that, by any careful analysis of the delegate selection process under the present Democratic Party proportional representation system, whatever delegate totals Senator Clinton wins through the end of this year's primary season, will not be able to overcome Senator Obama's current unsurpassable lead over Senator Clinton and therefore Obama will deserve the support of the so-called "super delegates" and should gain the nomination. But that is not how it works as we have seen in past Democratic conventions. A lead in pledged delegates is not enough. You still have to convince your party that you are the best nominee. That is what the next stage of this election is all about."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephen-schlesinger/obama-and-the-myth-of-ple_b_89977.html
Posted by: GORDO | March 5, 2008 7:57 PM
I suspect that there are several on this list already. Several posters have stated they would vote for McCain if Obama was the nominee.
yo soy Hussein Horsedooty!
Write on! The purpose of the primary is to find a candidate not take your marbles and go home if your candidate loses.
Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | March 5, 2008 7:58 PM
I have heard far more Obama voters say they wil stay home or vote for McCain ......for example on this list
alpha 1906 said the entire African American community in the US will sit out the election if Obama is not the candidate.
Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | March 5, 2008 8:05 PM
"Go ahead dooty, re-vote Florida and watch Obama lose again. Then will you be happy and support Hillary?
So,little boy Blue I have always said that I would vote for the Democratic candidate whom ever that be. The idea is is to elect a Democrat. I am a Yellow Dog Democrat. Ever heard of one of those? you may not have been here long enough to remember me saying that before many times.
yo soy Hussein Horsedooty!
Posted by: Hussein Horsedooty! | March 5, 2008 8:13 PM
KO is showing the "ghostbusters" spoof of the 3 AM ad. I wonder if he will show the Obama copies West Wing speech.
http://kara.allthingsd.com/20080304/west-wing-obama-mashup/
Posted by: jamie "instructions R Us" | March 5, 2008 8:16 PM
They will sit it out to their own detriment.
If Obama's logic is accepted, then their is no purpose to the Superdelgates. Again, if you allow Republicans and Independents to vote, then Superdelegates are need to prevent a highjacking by those who are not Democrats. To assume these non Democratic votes are benign is about the same realism Obama presents in foreign policy. TE Ao post I put up is just one example of moves made by our adversaries based on Obama's words. Yes words mean something, and unfortunately, mean somethng quite dangerous. Maybe Russert will ask Obama if he plans to cut off military aid to Columbia and reject NAFTA for Columbia.
As far as resolution to Democratic problems, re-vote Flordia and Michigan. I doubt Obama wants that. Rumor had it Hillary created a strom on Cleveland that prevented Obama from winning. In Texas, Hispanics wonder why Blacks enjoy far more delegate power. Also Canada is investigating the talks between the Obama camp and their officials.
Posted by: Maxtrue | March 5, 2008 8:16 PM
Wendy and everybody referring to the Geraldine Ferraro NYTimes op ed -- check out the readers' comments section.
Here's link to the op ed: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/25/opinion/25ferraro.html?sq=Ferraro%20superdelegates&st=nyt&scp=2&pagewanted=all
Like GAFerraro tremendously, but that was one of the worst argued opinion pieces I have ever read. It's like she's an attorney and none of the facts are in her client's favor.
Really -- cruise through the comments. Hundreds of them, and I only saw one in first 40 or so that was a lukewarm endorsement of Ferraro's position on superdelegates.
12th comment is only positive one; others use words like "absurd", "capricious" and "this is why the Democratic party has lost so many elections."
http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/02/25/opinion/25ferraro.html
Honestly, folks, if Obama was claiming this argument, I would be rejecting and denouncing him and it.
Posted by: dog hussein dog | March 5, 2008 8:17 PM
I think I understand the concept of Obama Rules
1. No rules should be changed if it involves making Clinton stronger
2. Any rule can be changed if it makes Obama stronger.
Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | March 5, 2008 8:22 PM
Bamboozling the American electorate again
"... Republicans have been organized in several states to throw their weight behind Senator Barack Obama, the Democratic rival of Hillary Clinton. At least three former fundraisers for President Bush flushed his coffers with cash early on in the race, something the deep pockets haven't done for any candidate in their own party. With receipts topping $100 million in 2007, the first-term Illinois senator broke the record for contributions. It was a remarkable feat, considering that most Americans had not even heard of him before 2005.
The Time article went on to explain that rank and file Republicans were switching parties this spring to vote for Obama in the Democratic primaries. Though not mentioned in the piece, a group called Republicans for Obama formed in 2006 to expedite the strategy. Many states have open primaries, allowing citizens to vote for any candidate, regardless of their party affiliation. In Nebraska, the mayor of Omaha publicly rallied Republicans to caucus for Obama on February 9th, according to Fox News Channel. Called crossover voting, the tactic is playing a crucial role in what appears to be a Rove-coordinated effort to deprive Clinton of the nomination."
http://www.thecityedition.com/Pages/Archive/Winter08/2008Election.html
Posted by: GORDO | March 5, 2008 8:24 PM
Only skimmed the comments, but want to say: I think open primaries is the way to go, even if you end up with some Limbaugh-inspired mouth breathers crossing party lines to interfere in your party's nomination.
Because for every miscreant there are dozens of well-intentioned voters who are independents or opposing party members voting their consciences, and why disenfranchise them? Point is to put up a candidate with a large enough base to win.
RE Florida and Michigan: I think they should revote in those states, open to indepedents if the original vote was -- and scheduled with enough time for voters to change party affiliation if they must to participate.
And then go with the results. It it's Hillary -- a clean vote. If it's Obama -- a clean vote.
It was a spoiled election in both states, and not fair to maneuver the results after the fact.
If it's expensive to fund the redo: democracy ain't always cheap.
Look at Iraq. Calculate the cost per vote there. Lives and money.
Posted by: dog hussein dog | March 5, 2008 8:30 PM
Celtics v. Pistons
Preview of the Eastern finals
Best game in basketball going tonight.
Not on ESPN or any other national TV outlet
If Obama can fix that, I'll vote for him.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 8:31 PM
all the double- triple- and quadruple posts and the testicle testing really got me laughing..and what the hell..after the past few weeks, who couldnt use a good laugh?
i see GORDO is still hunting down blog-o-spherical nonsense.. i'm glad some things dont change :)
Posted by: tylenol
| March 5, 2008 8:31 PM
It's on local tv here. But , the Pistons are losing.
Posted by: Corey Abdul Jabbar | March 5, 2008 8:32 PM
Shelia, I did respond to your remark further up and the one you questioned was in fact, directed at dooty. No problem.
Clinton tried to enlarge the party by his concept of "New Democrat" and more centrist liberal willing to work out real compromises to break the dead lock. He was despised by the Left for such a position. While Obama entered as a Lieberman mentor and spouted centrist lines, even suggesting nuking Iran, he decided to go Left of Hillary's centrist roadblock and pander to the more Liberal while claiming a uniter's mantel. Audacity of Hope does not trash NAFTA, yet on the stump he flipped to pander. He talked tough to AIPAC and supported widening sanctions, yet flipped on the stump. He spins pleasing words to Jews, but Malley, Zbig and Powers will not go away, notrwill Khadili or Rezko who gets his money from a Saddam crony. He makes pledges on public financing, but tries to wiggle out. The problem is just as I said months ago: as people vet his record and words they see far more triangulation and pandering than by Hillary. He wants inclusion and rejects Florida. He says he speaks for the Democrats, yet enjoys a small lead handed to him by Red States and non Democrats.
The pressure by Blacks on those Blacks supporting Hillary is disgusting and as I have said, the Superdelegates are there to prevent the interests of Democrats being highjacked by delegates and votes coming from outside the Blue Zone. Of course in battle States, red/blue mix counts, but many States Obama has taken in small caucuses simply don't represent the vested interest of the greater cause. Put another way. Obama doesn't have a prayer if Hillary States didn't vote. Hillary would have trouble too, but the comparison makes the point.
We can disagree, but this battle will go on. I think Obama comes under more intense vetting, Hillary takes Penn and it will get down to Florida and Superdelegates. In a dog fight, I think Obama loses, so perhaps making a deal for VP might be the best thing for him to do, or at least a deal that if Obama loses Penn, he is assured a VP spot, though I am not sure that helps Hillary. Adams and Jefferson couldn't get along until they were very old dudes.
Can a President fire a VP?
Posted by: Maxtrue | March 5, 2008 8:39 PM
I think it is important to know that there are indies out there that feel McC is better then BHO. Actually, I think if any of you would see McC in person you may have a different take on his ability to win this race.
Just saying what I have observed.
Posted by: march5 | March 5, 2008 8:42 PM
Can a president fire a VP?
Max...don't think so. At least not directly. A VP is just as much an "elected" official as a prez, and can only be impeached or resign.
But...we get ahead of ourselves...
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 8:44 PM
Do rank & file democrats & many of the sd's realize that it is distinctly possible that although more Democrats actually voted for Hillary as their choice to be the Democratic nominee of the Democratic party she may not be the nominee?!
While it may be elementary to those intimately following this election, the media repeats daily that Obama has won the popular vote & more states, leading most people who do not spend quite as much time as many here, to simply believe that Obama has won more Democratic votes, not that in fact his lead for the most part should be attributed to Indys & Reps.
Shouldn't it be a prime consideration of the sd's that they select a candidate that a majority of the Democratic party's members voted for?
Posted by: Coreen | March 5, 2008 8:44 PM
I think it is important to know that there are indies out there that feel McC is better then BHO. Actually, I think if any of you would see McC in person you may have a different take on his ability to win this race.
Just saying what I have observed.
Posted by: march5 | March 5, 2008 8:42 PM
While I admire your obvious passion for McCain. There are those of us who admired him and followed him for years. Would have voted for him too if He hadn't denied his own long held beliefs and bowed to Bush in order to get this nomination.
I believe quite a few on this blog feel a bitter pill when It comes to mcCain. Thanks for your comment though.
Posted by: Sheila Hussein the Chef Nun | March 5, 2008 8:47 PM
Hey Coreen...I love your logic. As far as the media repeating its daily lies, I've finally figured out a GREAT way to pass the time during the next seven weeks.
Let's strip Tim Russert naked, smear him with pig's blood, throw a couple of log chains around him...and then set him loose in a fenced field with a couple of hungry Alaskan malamutes. Now THAT would be entertaining!!
(And after he's done, we could move on to Chris Matthews)
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 8:49 PM
Where's Waldo? J Edwards?
Posted by: march5 | March 5, 2008 8:51 PM
nekkid Tim???????????????
stabbing ot my mind eye (hat tip EdVB)
Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | March 5, 2008 8:53 PM
No Passion, I am a HRC supporter. I just feel that when you actually go beyond the politics and try to judge the candidates it can get very blurry.
Posted by: march5 | March 5, 2008 8:54 PM
Oh. I forgot one detail. There needs to be, like, a foot of snow in the fenced field. Mainly to slow Tim down for the dogs and to better highlight the pig's blood as he futilely stumbles away. But also so he can talk about how much it used to snow in Buffalo. We gotta give him something, after all.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 8:56 PM
"Tim Russert naked"
My dogs would run away from that !
Posted by: march5 | March 5, 2008 8:59 PM
eww ewwwww ewwwwwwwwww Punkinhead nekkid.. ewwww
Posted by: estrogen deprived tylenol | March 5, 2008 9:11 PM
I choose not to envision Tim Russert in any manner.
Last night when msnbc called texas for Hillary, you would have thought he was at a funeral.
Posted by: Coreen | March 5, 2008 9:11 PM
Oh...one other detail I forgot: The exact type of fencing around the snow-covered field. But I'm going to let Dexter decide that one.
Should it be split-rail?
Barbed wire?
Pig wire?
Yuppie vinyl-white?
Or an invisible electro-shock fence?
Dex, it's 3 a.m. You are our president. Our babies are asleep in their beds. You have to make the call. So what is it?
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 9:25 PM
If it gets down to the superdelegates and if I understand right, BHO wants them to vote for the person who has the popular vote nation wide. What do they do with the Caucus counts? Were they included in the popular vote? I think they just determine the delegate counts in that primary. I can understand a super voting based on popular vote if they were not commited to anyone, but if they were a friend of a candidate and gave them their word they would vote for them but the popular went a different way I am not so sure they should change their vote. If I was a super I would have a problem with that. Also should they vote based on what their district or state voted if they were not commited to a candidate. I am not sure what the right answer would be. Glad I don't have to make that decision.
Posted by: vadaryl
| March 5, 2008 9:30 PM
If I were a SD I would vote for who ever I wanted....... Unless of course, my whole livelyhood depended on it..... there are so many problems with this method......
Posted by: march5 | March 5, 2008 9:34 PM
"If it's expensive to fund the redo: democracy ain't always cheap."
Couldn't agree more, dog....those states have to vote, and have them count. Howard Dean has been a great disappointment. Harold Ford would have been a much better choice.
Posted by: Patsi | March 5, 2008 9:37 PM
The popular vote is interesting. BHO is leading if you take out FL and MI. Adding them both in Hillary is leading. If you just add FL, BHO is still leading. In any case it's very close. Pa could flip the numbers. I don't know what to do with the Caucus counts.
Posted by: vadaryl
| March 5, 2008 9:41 PM
"(And after he's done, we could move on to Chris Matthews)"
LL
There won't be much left. Quite awhile back,I stripped him nude, slathered him in honey and staked him out on a fire ant hill.
Posted by: jamie "instructions R Us" | March 5, 2008 9:45 PM
There is all kinds of problems with this method but that's what we got and we got to live with it. In the future this system got to go. I hate to see any of the SD's getting death threats over this. It's not worth it. If I was a SD and got a threat I would go to my candidate and talk to them about it and together we could make a decision.
Posted by: vadaryl
| March 5, 2008 9:47 PM
If the the super delegates are required to vote a certain way there is no point in having them.
According to Obama when he talks about Fla or Mi everyone knew the rules. The rule is the sds are not bound in anyway.
Oh right....that doesn't work in his favor. So the rule must be changed.
Posted by: Super Delicate | March 5, 2008 9:51 PM
You guys: re your technicolor plans for Tim Russert:
what if he LIKES it? We have no idea what the guy does on his days off, and he may have a masochistic streak, given the crowd he occasionally runs with.
Posted by: dog hussein dog | March 5, 2008 9:53 PM
The rules were the SD's could make their own decisions. What would you do if you were a SD. If I was not commited to anyone I would use the popular vote, that could override what my state voted for. If I was commited to someone that would stand no matter what. Personal friendship is very important.
Posted by: vadaryl
| March 5, 2008 9:58 PM
Jamie...Honey? Fire ants? Tim Russert? I like you.
Or, better yet, to channel Hedley Lamar in Blazing Saddles...
"Kinnnnnnky...."
Still...I think my Alaskan-malamute-pigsblood-snowy-fenced-field scenario trumps because it accommodates the gratuitous Russert-invoking-Buffalo angle.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 9:58 PM
aw cmon... tweety nekkid too? I may not be able to define obscene, but I know it when I see it, and that's obscene!
Posted by: tylenol
| March 5, 2008 9:58 PM
Easy decison leave FL and MI out. I don't like that but rules are rules. Their SD's would be left out too.
Posted by: vadaryl
| March 5, 2008 10:00 PM
Super Delicate: you are making a broad statement that is not supported by the facts. And Florida and Michigan were very badly handled.
A lot of whining on this blog. Makes it less appealing to visit.
Posted by: dog hussein dog | March 5, 2008 10:00 PM
Other way leave FL as is, for whatever reason BHO put his name on the ballot and it was a fair election. In MI he left his name off, I would have a re vote there.
Posted by: vadaryl
| March 5, 2008 10:01 PM
What SD facts do you mean?
Posted by: vadaryl
| March 5, 2008 10:03 PM
If Florida and Michigan were badly handled and the rule is they don't count...all right they don't count.
The rule for super delegates is that they are not bound and Obama is trying to change that rule.
There is nothing over broad in any statement and and pointing out a fact is not whining --or is that another Obama rule --if you point out Obama hypocrisy your are whining.
Posted by: Super Delicate | March 5, 2008 10:04 PM
Dog Hussein Dog,
Let us know when you find a blog with no whining on it. We'll all go there.
Meanwhile, just suck it up or log off. It's going to be a long march to Pennsylvania.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 10:05 PM
It's going to be one of the hardest decisions a SD could make in their entire life. They have to vote with their gut, not be told by either candidate trying to change the rules for them.
Posted by: vadaryl
| March 5, 2008 10:10 PM
it's hard enough to find a blog with no swearing... my delicate ears have burned reading some of 'em!
Posted by: tylenol
| March 5, 2008 10:12 PM
Dang Ty...your EARS can READ!
I always knew I liked you, but that is truly impressive!! LOL. :)
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 5, 2008 10:14 PM
hey craig if yer out there..
1) how's the ankle?
2) do you have any idea how peeved I was to hear about your garden work when we're sitting under another pile of snow..and another one coming Saturday? next time, buddy, keep it to yerself..
3) how was your dinner with Helen Thomas?
Posted by: tylenol
| March 5, 2008 10:16 PM
LL!! (I really hesitate to write this but wth!!)
do your ears breathe??
Posted by: tylenol
| March 5, 2008 10:17 PM
"Granholm, a Democrat, and Florida Gov. Charlie Crist, a Republican, issued a joint statement Wednesday demanding that their states' delegates be seated. "We each will call upon our respective state and national party chairs to resolve this matter and to ensure that the voters of Michigan and Florida are full participants in the formal selection of their parties' nominees," the statement said.
Crist told reporters at a news conference Tuesday that he does not support having another primary at taxpayer expense. He said he discussed the option with Sen. Bill Nelson, the state's senior Democrat. "He said the only way to consider the possibility of that is to have the Democratic National Committee pay for it," Crist said. The Florida Democratic Party said the state estimates the cost would be $25 million.
Getting funding from the national committee might be difficult when the party has a general election to wage. Last August, the DNC offered to spend $800,000 for a later caucus, but the Florida state party rejected the idea because the amount would have only been enough to set up 150 caucus sites for the state's 4.1 million Democrats. "It wasn't a real offer. It just wasn't. It was not something anybody could agree to with a straight face," said state party spokesman Mark Bubriski."
Do-Over in Michigan and Florida?
By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer
Wednesday, March 5, 2008
Posted by: Super Delicate | March 5, 2008 10:21 PM
If they do decide to have a re vote then the method used could be another fight. Hillary would want a full vote and BHO would want a caucus.
Posted by: vadaryl
| March 5, 2008 10:26 PM
I think I like Maxine Waters approach to the whole superD issue. She's sticking with Hillary because she thinks she's the best candidate they can put forward and to those who would threaten her congressional district seat (JJjr) she says:
I'D RATHER LOSE MY SEAT
Posted by: Hill Yeah Wendy! | March 5, 2008 10:27 PM
Forget who she is for a second, her decision is based on her gut and I wish the rest of the SD's would follow her lead. I know I said earlier that Popular vote would play a role, this is another way of making a good decision. Being commited and going back on your word is a tough one.
Posted by: vadaryl
| March 5, 2008 10:33 PM
Was I seeing things, Bush was dancing before McCain showed up? Good material for the Daily Show.
Posted by: vadaryl
| March 5, 2008 10:39 PM
I heard something incredible the other day..but it makes sense in this ADD world..
a news soundbite used to be 15 seconds.. it's now down to 9.. 9 seconds! no wonder we get no context
Posted by: tylenol
| March 5, 2008 10:44 PM
From the web...
"What Obama has to worry about is the Sanjaya effect. Young girls swooned for him when the crooner was on American Idol and he was swarmed as the hottest celebrity at the White House Correspondent's Dinner last year. Now, if anyone remembers who he was, they have to wonder, "What the hell was that all about?"
Posted by: Patsi-Had-To-Post-It | March 5, 2008 10:47 PM
This has absolutely nothing to do with this thread or politics but it shows what kind of beings some people are breeding. I have cried and cried after watching this clip. How can humans be so cold and inhumane? This damn solider takes a little puppie and throws him high into the air and off of a cliff. Is this what the military is turning soldiers into? I can't stand this kind of stuff. It breaks my heart and they are laughing about it. What has happend to humanity?
http://my.break.com/content/view.aspx?ContentID=463231
Posted by: Karolenna | March 5, 2008 10:48 PM
ok everybody!! dance!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrelPOP518g
Posted by: tylenol
| March 5, 2008 10:48 PM
Maxine just might lose her seat.
Posted by: alpha1906
| March 5, 2008 11:11 PM
I'm sure you'll try to get Maxine dumped, Alpha. Betray a black woman who has been one helluva voice for her constituents. All because you want tax breaks to keep your kid in private school and screw welfare moms. Nice generation, yours. You should probably be voting Republican.
Posted by: PatsiHoly Moly | March 5, 2008 11:15 PM
No hug needed. I'm just writing a check to the re-elect Maxine Waters campaign.
Posted by: Patsi | March 5, 2008 11:30 PM
Alf -- want to threaten anymore black women? Stephanie Tubbs Jones? Sheila Jackson Lee? You could keep me up writing checks half the night.
Posted by: Patsi | March 5, 2008 11:38 PM
"Maxine just might lose her seat."
LOL
Alpha, you are full of shit and you know it.
She will die of old age before any of the Obama groupies will unseat her.
Posted by: Laughing at the sillyness | March 5, 2008 11:42 PM
sorry for the double post....the blog is still weird....
Posted by: Patsi | March 5, 2008 11:57 PM
When will Hillary come clean about the missing billing records from the Rose Law Firm?
Below from link.
http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080224/NEWS03/80224017
"Two years before the Lewinksy affair, prosecutors and a Republican-controlled Congress focused on the suicide of deputy White House counsel Vince Foster, a longtime law firm partner of Hillary Clinton.
Documents pertaining to Whitewater had been moved out of Foster’s office by White House aides after his death. Were the records of Hillary Clinton’s work for the McDougals’ failing savings and loan among them? And where were the records now?
Her legal work for the S&L seemed minimal. But prosecutors could not be sure because they never could seem to find her time sheets documenting what services she had provided to McDougal.
The missing billing records became the Rosetta Stone of Whitewater. Congress wanted them, as did Starr’s office.
Then one day in early January 1996, out popped the records from the White House family residence. The pile of computer printouts detailed her work for the McDougals’ failing S&L in the mid-1980s. A Clinton staffer said she had found the printouts stashed in a box in a storage room.
Prosecutors were furious. They had issued a subpoena for the billing records 18 months earlier. The prosecutors summoned Hillary Clinton, making her the only first lady to appear before a federal grand jury.
The billing records did not present a pretty picture regarding Hillary Clinton. They showed that she drafted a real estate document regulators later said had misled bank examiners. Prosecutors concluded that McDougal and others had used her legal work to conceal unlawful activity.
Had she obstructed the investigation by hiding the billing records? Had the records been removed from Foster’s office after his suicide? Neither prosecutors nor Congress were able to answer the questions.
She said she did not know where the billing records had been and that she could not recall the work she had done for the S&L 10 years earlier.
Prosecutors concluded they did not have enough to prove that she was a knowing participant in the criminal conduct by McDougal or others."
There are many questions still unanswered that needs to be brought into the light of day about how those records ended up in the White House.
Also Fascist Nazi Propagandist Rush Limpballs and others encouraged Republicans in Texas to vote for Hillary so she could win the Primary and bloody up both her and Obama during the long nomination fight that would ensue.
The Republicans know that Hillary would be an easier opponent to beat in the General Election and questions like I brought up above would once again be in the media spotlight along with many others that could swing the vote there way.
God Bless.
Posted by: anon-paranoid
| March 6, 2008 12:33 AM
"Also Fascist Nazi Propagandist Rush Limpballs and others encouraged Republicans in Texas to vote for Hillary so she could win the Primary and bloody up both her and Obama during the long nomination fight that would ensue."
Oh sure...and those emails going out by the thousands to concerned Texans from VOTE FOR OBAMA AND BURY THE CLINTONS FOR GOOD didn't influence anyone? I know people who got six of 'em a day, Anon. So think before you spread stuff.
Plus -- I am starting to realize that you are in realty just another Right Wing Clinton smear operative from the 1990's, masquerading as a paranoid. You just can't stand that after your boy Ron Reagan we had one good liberal president.
Keep it up. You and your ilk gave us George Bush.
Posted by: Patsi | March 6, 2008 1:08 AM
"Also Fascist Nazi Propagandist Rush Limpballs and others encouraged Republicans in Texas to vote for Hillary so she could win the Primary and bloody up both her and Obama during the long nomination fight that would ensue."
Oh sure...and those emails going out by the thousands to concerned Texans from VOTE FOR OBAMA AND BURY THE CLINTONS FOR GOOD didn't influence anyone? I know people who got six of 'em a day, Anon. So think before you spread stuff.
Plus -- I am starting to realize that you are in realty just another Right Wing Clinton smear operative from the 1990's, masquerading as a paranoid. You just can't stand that after your boy Ron Reagan we had one good liberal president.
Keep it up. You and your ilk gave us George Bush.
Posted by: Patsi | March 6, 2008 1:10 AM
Patsi...
I have never in 41 years voted for a Republican President. What I posted above is no different from what all you Hillary supporters are posting with your innuendo's about Obama.
Actually now I no longer care who wins the General. In fact I think that this year I will vote for Nader as if this goes to convention there will be no Democratic Party left.
So you can stuff that in your pipe and smoke it as far as I give a damn.
And I still think that we will have no elections as the Republicans will give Hillary the same powers that the Unitary Executive has that can get this whole administration arrested after being labeled Enemy Combatants under the MCA of 2006.
You remember that bill don't you. The Democrats caved in and helped pass that bill. Its the one that gives immunity for War Crimes under the American War Crimes Act and removes the right to Habeas Corpus.
No right to a lawyer or court hearing and indefinite detention once the President declares your an Enemy Combatant.
Since the Republicans say Hillary is Vile, Hateful, Vengeful and other things do you really believe that they want her or any Democrat to have the power to arrest a whole past administration? I don't think so.
So you just go ahead and believe what you will and when all those new young voters stay home like the Conservative Republicans do when they don't like there choices so will all those new members Obama brought in. As well as 80 to 90% of the African American Voters.
Good luck in the General that is if we have elections and get ready to say President McCain.
God Bless.
PS: I voted for the cheating Bill Clinton both in 92 and 96. I will never vote for a Clinton again.
Posted by: anon-paranoid
| March 6, 2008 1:23 AM
Just got on and it look like everyone had a good time taking shots at each other.:)
It's going to be a fun 6-7 weeks until PA..
ET:
I'm not sure when you left town but S. Pederson got her Captain License for her sailing yacht. i think she co-owns it with a good friend.
Sarah went with my wife and I to the Obama rally in Seattle last month. She tells me she's mad at you for being a Clinton nut among other things..:-)
My wife works with her at the Library.
later.
Posted by: Rezdog
| March 6, 2008 1:27 AM
Anon -- Sorry pal, but if you parrot Rethug talking points and are one of those fools hanging around Bill Clinton's "cheating" shorts then you did help usher in GW Bush.
And if you think this brave new world of hope and accomodation will get you any indictments, keep kidding yourself.
What fascinates me is the number of people who feel they can say anything and then act hurt if responded to. Or worse yet, pull a Scarlet O'Hara: "My, oh, my, what DID I evah say?!"
"Oh
Posted by: Patsi | March 6, 2008 1:37 AM
Great Article about Clinton Campaign
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/05/AR2008030503621.html
Understanding what went wrong at first and how they have kinda shored up the campaign....I say kinda because after reading this, it looks as though she still has some work to do
Posted by: Sheila Hussein the Chef Nun | March 6, 2008 6:01 AM
I can hear John McCain now.
Hillary says I have the experience to be President, however Barak Obama don't and will not be ready day 1 to take office.
He can also say it about Hillary.
Hillary has already admitted that I have the experience to be Commander in Chief on day 1.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When everyone on the Democratic side bashes each others candidate this don't help the party and gives the Republicans ammo to use against whomever the candidate is come November.
That is if we have elections.
So go ahead everyone and destroy both Hillary and Obama's reputations as that's how Republicans operate. And let this go to convention and see what's left of the party come November.
And like I said I don't give a damn what Patsi thinks she can go ....... or whatever.
The Democrats enabled Der Fuhrer Bush and gave him all the laws that helped destroy the Constitution. Even Bill Nelson voted for the MCA of 2006 and I will never forgive him for that.
Now its been reported that once again Nancy Pelosi is ready to give GWB his immunity in the Protect America Act.
Least we not also forget that the American People gave the Democrats the House and tried to give them the Senate and Charles Schumer came up with the scheme to run Judas Iscariot Lieberman as the Connecticut for Lieberman Party candidate.
When it was apparent Judas would be rejected by the Connecticut Democrats they were out getting the signatures needed to get him on the ballot for a independent run.
If I recall the papers had to be filed the day after the Primaries and they were.
Schumer also along with Diane Feinstein gave us the new AG who will not seat a Grand Jury to bring charges against Bolton and Mier for Contempt of Congress, so much for the Rule of Law.
And who's holding a woman back from becoming the first woman President of America.
If Nancy Pelosi would have done her job and upheld her Oath to the Constitution by starting Impeachment Hearing against Bush and Cheney she would be next inline and could have made Hillary her VP.
Also the continued destruction of our first line of defense at home, the National Guard would not be almost destroyed like they are now, the Army wouldn't be lowering standards and recruiting felons and gang bangers and our Constitution, Economy and Country wouldn't be on the verge of a Depression.
Think about that for awhile.
God Bless.
Posted by: anon-paranoid
| March 6, 2008 7:02 AM
And to this below from Patsi's reply.
"Oh sure...and those emails going out by the thousands to concerned Texans from VOTE FOR OBAMA AND BURY THE CLINTONS FOR GOOD didn't influence anyone? I know people who got six of 'em a day, Anon. So think before you spread stuff."
And so should you Patsi. If you have proof that these emails came from the Obama Camp than you should notify the proper authorities. If you don't have proof you should stop spreading the rumor.
I highly doubt that Obama would do anything to destroy a party candidate. Those are Republican Tactics and they use them all the time.
Just because Obama don't go after Hillary and there is plenty out there to do it with, doesn't mean he's not a fighter. So once again go ahead and help the Republicans destroy the Democratic Party as all this bashing makes Democrats no different than Republicans and only helps them.
God Bless.
Posted by: anon-paranoid
| March 6, 2008 7:46 AM
And to this below from Patsi's reply.
"Oh sure...and those emails going out by the thousands to concerned Texans from VOTE FOR OBAMA AND BURY THE CLINTONS FOR GOOD didn't influence anyone? I know people who got six of 'em a day, Anon. So think before you spread stuff."
And so should you Patsi. If you have proof that these emails came from the Obama Camp than you should notify the proper authorities. If you don't have proof you should stop spreading the rumor.
I highly doubt that Obama would do anything to destroy a party candidate. Those are Republican Tactics and they use them all the time.
Just because Obama don't go after Hillary and there is plenty out there to do it with, doesn't mean he's not a fighter. So once again go ahead and help the Republicans destroy the Democratic Party as all this bashing makes Democrats no different than Republicans and only helps them.
God Bless.
Posted by: anon-paranoid
| March 6, 2008 7:48 AM
Sounds like Schuster has Obama fever, too.
The anti-dote: A dose of reality.
Posted by: blueINdallas | March 6, 2008 7:58 AM
" If you have proof that these emails came from the Obama Camp than you should notify the proper authorities. If you don't have proof you should stop spreading the rumor."
I did not say they came from Obama. I'm quite sure they came from Republicans.
Posted by: Patsi | March 6, 2008 8:00 AM
Of course , Jamie!
Posted by: Corey Abdul Jabbar | March 6, 2008 8:12 AM
Of course , Jamie!
Posted by: Corey Abdul Jabbar | March 6, 2008 8:12 AM
Lush: News you can use:
AP Story: Men Who Do Housework May Get More Sex
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-sharing-chores,1,7176151.story
The lawyers out there are saying: hey, I see the word "may".
Posted by: dog hussein dog | March 6, 2008 8:23 AM
Sheila...thanks for that washpost link. That was a good story.
It really is scary how the Clintons seem to thrive personally in dysfunctional organizations that are of their own making. That's actually the core at all the bad memories brought back by reading that Sally Bedell Smith book.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 6, 2008 8:24 AM
Folks...here's a tip to avoid double-posting:
Hit "Submit" only one time, no matter what.
If the screen doesn't seem to be responding, try hitting the REFRESH button on your browser rather than hitting SUBMIT a second time. Nine out of 10 times, you'll see that your comment has been posted.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 6, 2008 8:26 AM
This has to be one of the biggest news items of the year, if the public latches on to it.
"March 6, 2008 -- 7:10 a.m. EST
When a Carlyle Unit
Can't Meet Margin Calls
By JOSEPH SCHUMAN
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL ONLINE
The crisis in the credit markets has come to this: A publicly traded investment fund of influential private-equity player Carlyle Group today acknowledged it failed to meet margin calls totaling a relatively paltry $37 million, that it has received default notices and that it expects more."
Wiki onto "Carlyle Group" and scroll down to the political portion of things. It's a who's who of the internationally well connected cadre of conservative movers and shakers.
Carlyle Group has been linked to all kinds of deals in the Middle East, many of which I believe not to be in our national interest.
To have Carlyle missing a margin call is like us missing our credit card payments, mortgage payment, and every other payment.. The next step is forced liquidation of assets that have been pledged as security.
This situation has the potential of completely derailing Repug politics for the foreseeable future.
Posted by: Flatus
| March 6, 2008 8:31 AM
The Wash Post article was good -- seems like a lot of "unnamed sources" and "senior staffers" though. Easy to say that. Sort of like when Maureen Dowd says, "I have this friend who calls Hillary supporters shoulder pad feminists." Meaning Maureen made it up. But two people who needed to be gone for a long time: Mark Penn and Terry McAuliffe.
Posted by: Patsi | March 6, 2008 8:31 AM
Flatus, isn't Tucker Carlson's father a big dog within the Carlyle Group?
Posted by: Patsi | March 6, 2008 8:32 AM
I heard that BHO had a friendship with a person who had some kind of connection with the first Twin Tower bombing. Does anybody know this person's name?
Posted by: vadaryl
| March 6, 2008 8:35 AM
No idea, Patsi. The Carlson family really isn't on my radar.
Posted by: Flatus
| March 6, 2008 8:35 AM
Here's one of a series of articles that we should all read....from USA Today. My daughter worked at a med clinic for a while and was HORRIFIED.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-03-hepatitis-nevada_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip
Posted by: Patsi | March 6, 2008 8:36 AM
Folks,
This is a great NYTimes graphic showing where we stand in the delegate voo-doo at the moment, and how things would need to play out in remaining states for either candidate to win.
Since the playing field is basically frozen for the next seven weeks, it's worth printing out and keeping near your computer as a handy-dandy reference:
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2008/03/06/us/20080306_ELECT_GRAPH.html
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 6, 2008 8:43 AM
mornin' all.
Good to see all is peaceful here in Crawford Country. LOL
AP makes a lot of good points about the loss of the constitution and rule of law, but old friend, you are wrong about who gave us GWB - that was Al Gore - for rejecting Clinton's help in the '00 election - and the Supreme Court for stopping the counting, allowing disenfranchisement of Florida voters, and making sure in doing so that GWB won FL. The rest of what you said, except the suggestion about the RLF billing records is either correct or at least worth considering.
Patsi, one thing AP is not is a Republican. In his zeal to bury Hillary, he, like many other Obama supporters (he may no longer be one now that he's become an independent) will be parroting the same lines as the repugs,and vice versa, but it doesn't mean they are repugs. Same thing is going to happen in Nov.. - McCain will be parroting what Hillary says about Barack or what Barack says about Hillary. It's just politics, it's gonna happen, and WADR,AP, if that means that McCain gets elected, that's what democracy is all about. You don't like it? Neither do I, but it comes with the territory if you're a democrat. But it won't be because I or any responsible supporter of the democratic party stayed home. And if after the primary season is over, if Obama wins and can't then win the general, look to Obama and the American people - those that vote for the old codger and those who were too f@#$king immature to act like adults and vote their own interestand the interest of their rights and country instead of staying home and pouting like 3 year olds who had a toy taken away to fix blame- it will not have been Hillary's fault.
And with regard to Hillary''s billing records, give me a f*&*king break - they were 10 years dead when they were pored over by the get Clinton at any cost mother f*#%er Ken Starr and he couldn't find anything to go after her with, so don't claim they now need to be looked at. Maybe you forgot to say they need to open another investigation into Vince Foster and travelgate. What a bunch of shit. That's the best the Obama camp has? That's what you think the election should be based on? That's all been beaten until its nothing less than a bloody pulp and there was nothing there, and there is nothing honest about saying it hasn't been examined sufficiently. Yeah, I think she should release her tax return for last year, just to take the issue away if nothing else - if it's finished. I don't know a lot of multimillionaires, but I'm betting that most of them wait until April 15 to file so they can delay paying the tax they owe. I can't even imagine being in that tax bracket, but I don't even look at my taxes until the end of March because I always have to pay.
I would like to see this campaign go forward and have the issues that people give a shit about discussed instead of trying to savage the other candidate over things that are long since dead - and I don't claim not to have engaged in that in the past,but things changed Tuesday when McCain became the repug candidate. Clinton isn't quitting, and she and Obama need to wake up,understand that if they turn the corner and go negative, it will have an impact on the campaign to November. Oh,and before you throw brickbats at me about the 3 o'clock phone call ad being negative, it wasn't - it was an issue ad about experience - just as Obama's 3 o'clock response ad wasn't negative -it was an issue ad about judgment. Every ad that draws a distinction between the candidates has a negative side to it,but that does not mean the ad is an attack ad.
Sorry about the long post - but this is ridiculous.
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 6, 2008 8:56 AM
Lots of good stuff in that post, Pogo. Thanks.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 6, 2008 9:04 AM
Thanks, lardass - I get lathered by sanctimonious acrimony.
Here's Gail Collins from today's Times - she has become one of my faves there over the past 6 months or so.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/06/opinion/06collins.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 6, 2008 9:08 AM
Patsi...the WashPost story about the Clinton camp is solid and rings true.
It may be based on unnamed sources, but it's still several levels above the average MoDo column, which is based on the voices she hears inside her head and the inter-galactic signals she picks up in her dental fillings.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 6, 2008 9:10 AM
and lardass, thanks for the tip on hitting submit on ly once, then refresh after it looks like nothing is happening (it also works after those annoying "Cannot display ...internal server error messages). It just worked for me despite my almost irrepressible urege to hit Back then Submit again.
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 6, 2008 9:13 AM
Gail Collins is such a breath of fresh air. And such an adult.
She actually bases her wit and observational humor on the reality we all share. By contrast, MoDo is limited to observing and writing about the metal shavings that are moved by the magnet of her warped imagination.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 6, 2008 9:18 AM
pogo...
It was Patsi who said I and others gave America GWB, not I.
I had posted that first post with the Rezko crap at the top and the comment got eaten. I forgot to put it in the replacement one that took.
I was using the billing records as an example of what will be said by the Repugs come November and the fact that innuendo is being used by the Hillary supporters on this blog over and over.
Everyone says that Obama is soft because he hasn't gone negative on Hillary like she has on him. And everything said here and on other sites will be used against whomever the candidate is come November.
I see no reason in helping the Repugs get new talking points to use against either candidate, but that is just what everyone is doing when they use the same tactics as Repugs do against members of their own party.
And if this does go to convention and Obama has won more states and has more pledged delegates and Hillary twist arms for the nomination then kiss the Democratic Party goodbye.
It will split in November and they will lose the General, if we have elections. That's a fact.
You don't have to like it, however its the truth because both sides will feel betrayed. So everyone better start slamming Repugs instead of each others candidate.
That's all I was trying to point out and if anyone thinks I'm wrong than so be it.
God Bless.
Posted by: anon-paranoid
| March 6, 2008 9:20 AM
Pogo
Thanks for your reality check. Though I don't know you, I could almost hear your passion in reading the riot act to the gang. I would expect no less from a fellow attorney.
By the way, lest we forget, we are approaching 4,000 Americans dead as a result of the debacle in Iraq. To date, 3,974, I believe.
Posted by: Coreen | March 6, 2008 9:24 AM
You know, the most interesting insight I got from the Post story was the mathematical brilliance of Obama's "small-state" strategy.
In other words, that winning big a small state like Idaho can produce as much or more of a net gain in raw delegates than narrowly losing a major state like Texas or New Jersey.
It seems so obvious once you think about it, but even the smart cookies in the Clinton campaign were caught off guard. And even though it totally warps the process and is a disservice to the broader interests of the party, you can't deny its brilliance.
I hope the Dems will streamline and tweak the rules a bit for 2012, based on the lessons learned this year.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 6, 2008 9:25 AM
Pogo--your 8:56. Right on all counts. Thanks!
Posted by: Flatus
| March 6, 2008 9:26 AM
Sheila, you chef nun, you, great WaPo article - even I, an admitted Clinton koolaid drinker, think it is a fascinating look at the inside of the campaign. Now go cook.
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 6, 2008 9:32 AM
I bet she's cooking all those things I'm not allowed to even think about!
Posted by: Flatus
| March 6, 2008 9:34 AM
Is the wife of BO working for the McCain camp? She keeps giving them more ammunition for 'unpatriotic liberal' jabs that will be coming -
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/03/04/bride-of-messiah-america-is-just-downright-mean/
Posted by: econsmed
| March 6, 2008 9:36 AM
AP, I do not believe the party will split in August, any more than it has split in the past when the nominating process was not settled before the convention. The last real Dem split was 40 years ago, and I think most of the party said a less than fond good riddance to George Wallace (then my state's governor), even though that brought us Richard Nixon, and the South never came back to the Democratic column. If I was given the power to choose the dem party with Wallace and all he stood for or thenational hell of Nixon, I'd probably still say "Good bye, George." Hell, I loved watching the conventions when they were still interesting instead of a bunch of speeches by those who have been or want to be. One of us will be wrong. Check with me in November.
It doesn't matter to me who brought up what - the fact is the level of rancor between you and Patsi (whose passion I love) was off the charts. And WADR old friend, suggesting what the repugs will dredge up in Nov., whether it is against Obama or Clinton, can easily be mistaken as a passive aggressive way to bring those subjects up now,and since they were on the table, I thought I'd respond. I think we know what they will suggest about Obama - we've discussed it here for the past 2 months -and he will respond effectively, I hope.
Faltus - you're welcome.
Coreen, another law'er? Where, and in what area do do you practice? We have a mass/toxic tortsattorney, a business/corporate attorney and a family law attorney regularly on the board now.
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 6, 2008 9:53 AM
flatus, what do you think She's putting in her dishes that you shouldn't have? Is it the salt, the sugar, the carbs or the fat? This getting old shit stinks, no?
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 6, 2008 9:55 AM
econ, good lord. Her comments are not exactly reflective of a message of hope, are they? I've got to say, Michelle Obama doesn not make me think "great first lady."
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 6, 2008 9:59 AM
Get this Florida is saying it will remove the name of the Democratic nominee from the ballot in Nov, if their delegates aren't seated. OUCH!!!!
i just read that on abc website i hope its not true ....boy the DNC really has got themselves painted in a corner with their stupid rules and proportional delagates and open primaries ......i also read that HRC has more democrat votes and the repub and independent votes are what has obama ahead in the pop vote .........may be this should go to convention and force this party to regroup and change this stupid system
Posted by: zumper | March 6, 2008 10:03 AM
Here is an excellent article by Adam Nagourny about the current state of affairs in the Dem contest..
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/06/us/politics/06elect.html?hp
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 6, 2008 10:06 AM
Pogo...re Michelle as First Lady. I think it would be EXACTLY the same dynamic that played out with Bill and Hill in '92, and going forward. She will become a lightning rod for anyone who wants to demonize the administration. That's just the way it will be.
Same will happen with Bill if Hillary wins. But, hey, we've been to that movie before and we know how the Clintons will react.
Unfortunately, the only way to not be controversial as a First Spouse is to be a shrinking violet or a wallflower. I don't see Michelle suiting up for that role. Not at all.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 6, 2008 10:09 AM
Pogo said, "flatus, what do you think She's putting in her dishes that you shouldn't have? Is it the salt, the sugar, the carbs or the fat? This getting old shit stinks, no?"
To the first part:
--Circle 'D', all of the above
To the second part:
--Of course it does. No surprises there. In American society, older people are a redundant nuisance.
Posted by: Flatus
| March 6, 2008 10:22 AM
zumper, I don't think the independent votes shouldn't be considered intotal vote count. I would argue that Repug votes should not be considered when determining which candidate has the most votes, but from a practical standpoint, I don't see how you could accomplish that.
Now, I have to admit I hate the system we have now - it is a nightmare. Just noodling, here., but if I were someone in a position to run for DNC chair, because of the awful problems apparent in the current system thanks to this election, I would run on a platform that would focus on making sure that every vote cast counted by having a nominating process that (1) gets rid of proportional delegate allocation (although if the rest of the following platform planks were adopted, could live with it), (2) makes all primary contests one person, one vote, secret ballot (3) getting rid of caucuses (4) allows only party members or unaligned voters who do not vote in another party's primary to vote, (5) gets rid of superdelegates, and (6) sets a primary calendar with begin and end dates that apply to all states and that distributes the contestsmore or less evenly across the campaign period. If proportional delegate allocation were retained,the method of awarding delegates should take into account both popular vote and numbers of either counties or congressional districts won. And to take it a step further,I would start a campaign to amend the constitution to get ridof the anachronistic electoral college.
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 6, 2008 10:25 AM
pogo bin agogo, last night on a radio talk show here in Boston the host was referring to her call in guests as 'ah, yet another sloth'. There's putting your foot in your mouth, buy Michelle is getting pretty close to the having entire inventory of Payless Shoes in there right now!
Posted by: econsmed
| March 6, 2008 10:25 AM
LL, points well made, and well taken. Of course,I wouldn't want to have to tour the White House at Christmas on HGTV with Cindy McCain, either. But then since she is apparently superglued to John's elbow, that might not happen anyway.
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 6, 2008 10:29 AM
Pogo
I have been an attorney in Stratford/Trumbull, CT since 1980. I consider myself a "country lawyer", with a bit of knowledge in various areas--bankruptcy (on the rise as you probably now) probate, real estate, personal injury (only from plaintiff's side). I do not practice criminal or family law, nor am I a "specialist" in a particular area of the law.
My days could be spent arguing, however, as you know, sometimes the art of compromise is the only realistic approach.
Since I started reading these comments, I have found that must of you have a wealth of valid opinions (diverse as they may be) but at times the rancor that is expressed causes me to cringe. Your consistent attempts to mediate the dialogue are welcome.
Posted by: Coreen | March 6, 2008 10:29 AM
Salute to Lardass for the description of the mental machinations of Mofodo.
Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | March 6, 2008 10:29 AM
econ, pogo is fine, no need to refer to me with my complete name (which could change at any moment). Yes, only Cindy the Stepford spouse, whose only campaign utterances thus far have been "Uh-huh" and "I've always been proud of my country" doesn't have hoof in mouth disease.
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 6, 2008 10:34 AM
Well, coreen, welcome aboard. That gives us a nice complement of additional legal perspectives - I've done both plaintiff and defense work, all in WV, although I've been on the defense side for a number of years now. I always laugh when I tell people that of all the actors in the legal system, I hate prosecutors and the insurance companies the worst - and insurance companies are the ones that pay my bills. And yep, compromise iscertainly the name of the game. my e-mail is larry,dot.chafin,at.steptoe,hyphen.johnson,dot.com if you're inclined to drop me an e-mail. I like to exchange e-mails with fellow attorneys here - you never know when a direct offline conversation about something a discussin here sparks might come in handy. Networking and all that, you know.
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 6, 2008 10:44 AM
NEW THREAD
Posted by: Craig Crawford
| March 6, 2008 10:47 AM
good morning gang....
Pogo.... it's official..... I am a bonafide prune!
taking another chlorine break today.... going shopping at LaHouts....
I think those of you who say do a revote in Florida and Michigan have no real concept of how elections are paid for.... just stating that democracy is messy and therefore expensive.... so let's do a revote,,,, shows a lack of understanding.....
elections (and primaries) are paid for by the tax payers of each town and city..... they are part of a city's budget.... same as policmen and teachers.....
in these troubled financial times.... I'd bet that most city and town budgets are like my own hick town's.... cut to the bone to keep taxes down as much as possible because if they aren't the voters will hand your ass to you in upcoming local elections...
so if your state is ordered to do a revote and it's not paid for by the national party.... where does your town or city get the funds to do another election.... you must find the money, so what do you cut in order to do it..... do you cut the police dept..... or maybe the school budget..... or maybe the rec. dept...... hell just let the kids roam the streets.... how about not repaving local roads..... remember, the money must come from someone's department....
and if this happens to your town because of a f**ked up democratic party.... do you think that will make people happy and vote for democrats in the general...
if the citizens of Florida or Michigan are forced to pay for another primary..... I say you can kiss those states goodbye for the democrats come Nov.
ok..... off to do some shopping..... see ya later....
Posted by: hot tubbin' Renee | March 6, 2008 10:55 AM
Coreen...
I tried to once get everyone to stop bashing each others candidates with no success.
It kept getting worse and I stopped commenting on the candidates for awhile, however the constant innuendo about Obama being possibly corrupt or not honest was a smear attempt to damage him politically and what I felt was harmful to the Democratic Party.
So the exchange above since Patsi acted like I was either Zell Miller or Judas Lieberman. Something that I took great offense at as has others who have had her mock them as well for her replies to them.
I have already said that no one is going to change the other persons mind about their candidate and we shouldn't be bashing each others as it would be harmful to the party and possibly split the party come November.
A lot of commenters, some regular and new ones don't think that will happen, but it is a real possibility and should be taken very seriously.
Outside of that I have nothing further to say on the matter.
God Bless.
Posted by: anon-paranoid
| March 6, 2008 11:03 AM
pogo
i agree with most of what you wrote ...we both agree something has to be done ....i am in favor of closed primaries to keep outsiders from trying to affect the dem party process.....and some winner take all states ....if we are going to proportion delagates the winner of the pop vote in a state should get 50% of the delagates and the remaining delagates should be proportioned...in any event the system has to be changed
Posted by: zumper | March 6, 2008 11:19 AM
pogo
the way its set up now there is no reward for winning a state......i also agree no more caucus's
Posted by: zumper | March 6, 2008 11:21 AM
how about this idea.......revote fla and mich on apr 22....make them winner take all and end this fiasco once and for all......other wise we will end up at the convention and all out war in the dem party
Posted by: zumper | March 6, 2008 11:31 AM
NEW THREAD
RELOAD
Posted by: jamie | March 6, 2008 12:23 PM
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