Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Craig:
Wasn't there an exit poll that said 25% of Hillary supportters would bolt to McCain in the general?

--Heather

I find this very troubling. I am not enamored with Obama but I would NEVER vote for McCain.

It's plain stupid.

Dear Bear:
I don't quite understand the point you are trying to make or your anger towards me.

Heather...we seem to have a little disconnect because I have no anger towards you at all. My anger was towards those who claim that someone is not patriotic because they don't make outward and often false displays of patriotism.

Let me use 9/11 as an example. Everyone ran out and got flags to hang on their home or do mount on their cars after the attacks. About a week later, I spent a couple of hours a day walking along some of the busier roads in Rhode Island, picking up many of those flags that were in the gutter, tattered and muddy. I was always angered and saddened to see people would ultimately have so little regard for the flag that they would just walk on by while it laid there in filth. Many of those same people would need little prodding to write a letter to the editor demanding that there be a Constitutional Amendment banning flag burning or other "desecrations"

I don't recall if you were using lapel pins as a patriotic litmus test. I didn't think you were...I'll look for that post and reread it.

For the record, neither Bush nor Cheney wore a lapel pin with any frequency until after 9/11...

I could even see many people not voting at all if their candidate is out. Just the nature of the beast. They will be putting their time and energy into other things.

They will have had their fill of politics.

Max,

I agree with most of your comments. At least your postings are informative and your convictions are true to yourself..

Julie

Craig....
as I'm sure you know..... politics can be very messy.....
I honestly think that many of the people who are claiming now that they won't vote for the other candidate if their choice doesn't get the nomination will change their minds once this becomes the general election.....

I'm not convinced yet that the Democratic party is damaged anything approaching "beyond repair" .....

and I don't think that either candidate should drop out.....

Thanks Juile, I see my post was the last on the last thread. Forgive me Mr. Crawford, but perhaps they belong here to explain why "team work" is lacking.

First, I work in NYC where every morning thousands of Hispanics line up outside of buildings waiting to work. Of course, many are illegal but I've had tens of hours speaking to them. I cannot say their views reflect the Hispanics at large, but I am struck by their general fondness for Hillary and McCain. Even those who can barely speak English seem to note that Obama tried to ruin the Amnesty Compromise. McCain has every right to bring that up. How is this a GOP talking point?

Second, what some might say are GOP talking points probably refer to my position on Iraq, Iran, the Middle East, Obama's national security advisors and the poor judgment in his involvment with Rezko and by association with Auchi who has yet to surface in the public consciousness.

I will spare all of a detailed re-hash, but I was involved in many debates back in 2002 and know what the positions and options were. Several Republicans and many Democrats were supportive of the view Hillary advanced on the floor of the Senate. It is easy for Obama to oppose the resolution on force, but what was his magic bullet? He had no magic bullet and his position was simply a negative, rather than an affirmation of a realistic solution. This is a large part of the thrust of Obama supporters -"not Bush". Front Line showed clearly what our "allies" at the time wanted. France and Russia had no intention to let their contracts slip away and favor a new round of "smart sanctions". There were few Democrats who wanted sanctions to lift and watch Saddam continue brutalizing his people, threaten Israel and his Muslim neighbors and re-starting his WMD programs. This IS exactly what he planned to do and Obama is a bigger panderer than I suspect if he tries to refute Saddam's own cabinet tapes or confessions to Piro.

Now you might call me a conservative for posting this again:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/03/wouldacouldashouldas_on_iraq.html

but unfortunately, only Republicans dare to discuss such things in today's Democratic climate. Above, there is a rational discussion of the options back in 2002. It is the truth to say that despite Carl Levine and some other Democrats who feared Bush more than Saddam, most Democrats supportered Hillary's plan, but agreed that Saddam was not listening and that the resolution would get his attention. Even the UN said that only the credible deployment of US power would make Saddam blink. The article also discusses the likely situation now if we had not removed Saddam. Something Obama never talks about.

I bring this up because this issue is not a GOP talking point. Bush failed to listen to moderate Democrats and even Hagel, McCain and other Republicans. Had McCain and a moderate group of Republicans reached out to Democrats to block any rash move by Bush, GWB would have blinked. This was McCain's greatest mistake, but he did have to try and triangulate how to push the adminsitration without destroying any chance he had to win the nomination. We all know about the Kerry offer to McCain. I guess Kerry is a Republican Lite and so too, Gore, for his earlier position on Iraq and Saddam.

As Front LIne showed, we spent three years struggling with failed planning in Iraq. I spent hours blasting US policy and wraned about failure if we did not adapt. Even the NYT suggested more troops. Had things gone much better, Obama would be running on what message? It is wrong for him to cast Hillary as having bad judgment when his own solution to Iraq has never been vetted. Hillary represented the best policy to avoid war, or if war was absolutely necessary over principles Powers, Rice, Lake and even Zbig should understand, then we could have created a larger coalition and perhaps, by delaying our invasion, won a no-veto from the French and Russians in the Security Council when Bush finally asked for a resolution on the use of force. Obama never talks about the duplicity of France and Russia and he certainly does not discuss the effect of our invasion on the slow-down of the Iranian bomb and the surrender of Gaddafi -which I should point out was using those huge tunnels for WMD programs. The Democrats had claimed he was not. So who was right? It is silly to think that Iran and Gaddifi didn't blink because we invaded Iraq.

As far as Iran, one needs only to review Obama's past speeches. At one point, Obama talked about using nukes on Iran. He has little standing on Iran having told one thing to AIPAC and then failed to vote for or against sanctions. Then he blasted Hillary for her vote on sanctions and LIED about not knowing when the vote was. How incredibly lame of Obama, but did the Press blast him like Hillary over Bosnia?

I won't go on about Iran, but will add that "judgment" as defined by Iraq and Iran is a ploy by Obama to look smart and qualified. Bullsit. He wasn't there, offered no plan and I rather doubt he could thwart Saddam anow fter restarting his WMD. Saddam wasn't one for talking much. To bring up Iraq, Iran and even Obama's advisors pathetic record on Israel is not using GOP talking points. It is using objectivity from the starting point of US self-interest as defined by decades of bipartisan NSS. Obama defelcts this objection by boilerplate assurances to Jews and national security inclined voters. It is just HIS TALKING points designed to get elected.

And to end, it is not GOP talking points to identify the moment Obama started the personal attacks which he escalated with the help of his wife and supporters into racial attacks. He has tried to gut the Clinton Era and still defends anti-American statements from Wright and Meeks while his media surrogates continue their slanted attack on the Clintons.

All of this puts Obama in a tougher spot in any battle with McCain than Hillary. I suspect this is why Obama hopes Sadr ruins Iraq. Anything to make McCain look bad, even if such a disaster leaves 4000 American lives -a vain attempt at nothing but "a rush to dominate oil supply". This is a horrible mindset and any voter who wishes for such tragedy is in my opinion, disturbingly unAmerican.

How any of my comments are GOP talking points simply because good ammo can be used by anyone with a gun, is an interesting spin by Obama supporters. Yes, Republicans will use such objective attacks on Obama, so I should avoid mentioning them? I should shut up while Obama sports such a pathetic crew of advisors, makes anti-American icons high-lights of his life story, takes money from Rezko that may have come directly from the food intended for Iraqi children (see Auchi), and pretends to have some bold record which he does not? Let us just be honest here and leave it as that.

1. the media has helped Obama considerably and continues to do so. Media should not advocate, but report unflitered news. It overlooks real racism and ignores rampant sexism both here in the US and abroad.

2. Obama is full of contradictions, a questionable record and an even more dubious staff. He has lied, pandered and still defends the indefensible.

3. His rhetoric is far from original (Duval Patrick -also speeches given by JFK, FDR, Lincoln, Malcolm X, RFK, MLK) and the logic that such a divisive Obama campaign and such supra-Liberal support bringing this country together is more than questionable. It is a foolish assumption.

4. Gone is his pretense of a high road, honesty or even a strategic vision. Can one really imagine a Zbig daughter supporting Hillary? LOL He can't even keep top advisors from saying the dumbest things.

5. Without the DNC rules which hardly reflect majority will, Obama would have already lost the nomination. Instead, caucuses, open voting, media help and Red State efforts have placed him in the slim lead.

I ask all who think Obama can defeat McCain once his flaws are further amplified through the Republican machine to reconsider putting forward, yet another candidate who will lose. Every one of my objections to Obama appears on the screens of Reagan Democrats, Independents, Hispanics and others. I cannot say how they will swing, but my gut tells me the Democrats are in for a cruel awakening should they thrust Obama out into the light of a national campaign against McCain.

Before we have team work, we need to consider what our team stands for and what starters are more likely to win. Just an opinion from a single voter....

As a person who currently has friends in the military, has neighbors children in the military, and know some who have given their lives in this Iraq War, I can tell you that the show of support means a lot to these families.

These people truly feel the lack of support in this country for this war. Nonetheless they are brave and proud while others argue over what amounts to nothing. (wear the pin or don't wear the pin)

Max,

If Hillary Clinton were the better candidate, she would be winning. If Obama is as bad as you say he is, she is that much worse for not being able to beat him.

To think that Obama supporters are rooting for Sadr makes the idea of "team work" rather absurd. We are all on America's team and we should be rooting for our soldiers and any success that brings stability and a better life into this world.

My thoughts go out to those brave Iraqis and Coalition soldiers that are trying to give meaning to the concept of an Iraqi government. Shame on those hoping Iraq turns back from improving and spins out of control. The fact that Obama supporters are far more likely to root for Sadr, that should say something loud and clear to the majority of Americans.

My US/Iraqi interests prevail.

Craig,
As amazing and substantial as those poll numbers are, it's not "Democrats who would vote for McCain" that the nominee and the party should worry about.

--It's the Democrats who would stay home

--Or the Democrats who would find a third candidate to vote for

--Or the Democrats who would use their vote to write-in Hillary or Obama

Those, I think, are more realistic scenarios than a full crossover to the GOP. And I'd like to see THOSE scenarios addressed in the next poll.

"The fact that Obama supporters are far more likely to root for Sadr, that should say something loud and clear to the majority of Americans."Maxtrue 3:31 PM

Max, where are you seeing this?

If you 're on a break post it later. Thx

I agree with Bear's most recent post.

Bear:

FWIW, the lapel pin stuff is rubbish.

I've seen just how patriotic Bushco has been while wearing their flag lapel pins. 4000 soldiers dead, trashed veteran benefits and services, torture, illegal wiretaps, erosion of our civil rights etc. etc.

One of the Reps from Georgia, Jack Kingston (R), went on Dan Abrams' show to complain about Barack's lack of lapel pin. Rep. Kingston wasn't wearing one either. Abrams flamed him for it but the hypocrite went on and on about Obama's lack of patriotism. He was undaunted even after Abrams called him on it. Nothing is too hypocritical for a right wing freak. What a bunch of bull.

Bear, I believe that the majority of people that say they wouldn't vote for BO because of a lapel pin would not have voted for him anyway.

Heather: I mean no disrespect in any way. It is not for me to say whether a person should wear the pin or not. I just do not believe that someone should be taken to task for not wearing one.

Bear....
Max is not writing about Obama's inabilities as a candidate..... he's writing about his inabilities to be president of this country.....

I know this argument has been used before..... but once again.....
GWBush was a better candidate than Gore...... do you have any doubt in your mind that Gore would have been a superior president compared to Bush..... I don't.....

That is a foolish claim Bear.

Media has played a big role in slanting opinion. Caucuses that do not represent the greater voting public also help Obama and thwart the will of the people. Red State victories are less important given the voting reality of November.

Hillary leads in Democratic votes and the open voting also thwarts the will of Democratic voters. So your spins and question is not valid in my opinion. Every time some "facts" about Obama surface until media pushes them back down, Obama drops in the polls. Things will be much different come November and it is funny that you think the factors that really went into the present race have resulted in the "better" candidate" being in front. I do not worship Hillary...LOL, but the pretense surrounding Obama will be stripped before November. Then Democrats will be asking why? Blacks will blame a racist America. The Democrats will be is greater disorder and our enemies will relish the moment -not that China, Putin and Islamic terrorists will be happy about a McCain victory.

Another view before Novemeber will promote the concept that a Democratic Congress and McCain will produce less mistakes than Obama and a Democratic Congress. That does make some sense.

Its okay Bear

All I am saying that from my point I like the wearing of a flag pin by members of congress. People in Congress are sworn in office and are employees of the government. I am not equating that all civilians should wear one.

I never made it a litmus test, what I was doing in my original post was making a comparison to Barack Obama that refuses to wear one and Harold Ford Jr that chooses to wear one thats all. And not anywhere did I condemn Senator Obama for not wearing one.

I see nothing wrong with people serving in government in an official capacity wearing one

Would you have condemn my father or grandfather wearing their DAV caps with ribbons, they fought in wars earned commendations they wear them at DAV functions but not daily

In any event thats all I meant by my original post Bear

Sincerely,
Heather

Max,

I am more than happy to turn my back on a bunch of profiteering or ingrateful Iraqis.

I understand that the Iraqi people didn't want this war but 5 years on the gravy train need to come to an end. They have wasted our money. They have decided that they would rather see our soldiers die instead of them getting off their duffs to actually do something for themselves. Sadr, the only thing I'm rooting for him to get is a bullet between the eyes quite frankly.

My only concern about that country was the fact that it is where Sumer was. I am sure most of those artifacts are destroyed, so we can nuke em up for all I care.

I see so many other things we could have done with that $3 Trillion and the only people who have said thank you for our help are the ones who padded their bank accounts...

Heather,

I would never condemn voluntary displays at all. I do condemn that people can question whether you love your country or not because you chose not to wear a $1 pin that wasn't made in the US to begin with.

Returning to my flag reference of earlier, do you realize that WalMart sells American flags, "made in the US" but from imported components?

That's what pisses me off...

Now that I'm all worked up, I think you need to buy us a drink...lol

Heather,

People should do whatever they feel like doing when it comes to patriotic displays, but quite frankly, I find the lapel pins and the majority of flag waving just jingoistic display that has little or nothing to do with real patriotism.

But I don't like the pledge of allegiance either since I consider it a habit most people have been indoctrinated to utter without thinking about what it is, why it was written, and how and why its manner of presentation has been changed and the words amended. I say it so as to not insult others, but at the least it is silly and at worst, dangerous.

Jamie, yes Rosten's work has been ordered and received. I read the publisher's intro to this volume and they said that all the pieces had already been published in the New Yorker.

Bummer, I have the Complete New Yorker on DVD (one of humanity's greatest values!). Every once in a while I'll start 'leafing' through the pages remembering the wonderful Peter Arno and Helen Hokinson cartoons as they pop up on the screen.

Max,

If Hillary Clinton were the better candidate, she would be winning. If Obama is as bad as you say he is, she is that much worse for not being able to beat him.

Posted by: Bear | March 26, 2008 3:31 PM

Bear, it is rarely a fact that the "better" candidate is winning, especially in the general election! :-)

Sorry, but there is no way I can vote for a candidate who would disenfranchise 2 large states we need in November just so he can win the primary. That isn't a democrat, and I won't support him. If he cannot win legitimately, then this whole election is a farce. The fact that the DNC would allow this to even have gotten this far is also very revealing. They've done everything they could to shove their candidate down our throats, right along with the media, whether we want him or not. I won't bite.

Dear Bear
\_/> on the house Bear...Sláinte

Sincerely,
Heather

Max

Have you considered an executive summary lead-in to your comments? Doing that, and including hyper links, would sure help me navigate their content.

Listening to the back and forth reminds me of when I was a volunteer community organizer. local community and neighborhood orgaizations give one a different view of humanity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_A5LGnbjk0

Jack

After two evenings of Frontline, showing a condensed Iraq War in a few hours, it is appalling that so many Democrats would actually vote for McCain as a protest because either HRC or BO were denied the nomination.
McCain is as crazy as the damn neocons who messed up the country with the foolish Iraq war.
Some say (Air America hosts) Hillary is a neocon, but she has a better plan than McCain, regarding the war.
At 4% of news coverage, Iraq has all but dropped off the radar.
How did this happen? How were Bush and the despicable Rice given such a pass in the media?
This war which has destroyed the economy and is continuing to drain all resources, is now page 12 news?
Last night it was reported by NBC Nightly News that 10-to-30 million dollars worth of oil is stolen DAILY in Iraq.
That is the oil that Wolfowitz said would pay for the war.
Now, even if the theft was stopped, it would hardly dent the cash-drain the war is having on this country.
Coinciding all this, The New Yorker has even more graphic first-person accounts of what really happened at Abu Ghraib, it is sickening, but no outcry at all from the press ---no front page headlines...little commentary.
It's old news. McCain says it will continue, less the torture. Who believes that old fool? We're still there , in continually changing roles, but still there, occupying. And that's wrong.
People post ideas and comment here on this blog how stupid one or the other's candidate is based on various issues, but the idea of jumping to McCain?...that indicates those people are like the old Reagan Democrats, and are against all the Democrats stand for, historically.

"do you realize that WalMart sells American flags, "made in the US" but from imported components?
That's what pisses me off..."

Ditto that, Bear....and don't me started on yellow car magnets made in China.

Sorry, but there is no way I can vote for a candidate who would disenfranchise 2 large states we need in November just so he can win the primary. That isn't a democrat, and I won't support him. If he cannot win legitimately, then this whole election is a farce. The fact that the DNC would allow this to even have gotten this far is also very revealing. They've done everything they could to shove their candidate down our throats, right along with the media, whether we want him or not. I won't bite.
Posted by: CognitiveDissonance | March 26, 2008 4:03 PM

Well to be honest the DNC created the mess and now is afraid to fix it. Howard Dean has been a total doofus, and Jamie's idea of rotating primaries should be implemented for the future. In the meantime I think the DNC should simply accept the FL results and perhaps force Michigan to do a re-vote. Who knows? It might go Obama's way.

Rez -- I've been thinking about the year of that tournament and I may have been a year off -- now think it was 1961 so maybe that was the year before your brother went to Haskell. Tell him it's true....there are people who remember that team well!

I think that unlikely_burrito nailed it, and that could result in yet another miserable November 5 for Dems.

I have not heard this idea that [Clinton+Obama] = greater than the sum of its parts, but it is an interesting concept.

But yeah, my biggest worry is that non-strongly-committed Dems will eventually say, to hell with it, and stay home on election day.

Here's an interesting take on Craig's comment.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/opinion/26dowd.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Jack....
I know what you mean....
I've done lots of volunteer work in my community.......
at present, I sit on the board of trustees for our local library.....
the board is made up of both genders..... the oldest is 80.... the youngest is 35...
some are Repubs..... some are Dems.... and some are Indies.... we are all white..... but represent a big mixture of European ethnicities.....

and none of that matters one whit when we sit down to a board meeting.....
we all work together for a common goal..... to make our library better.....

I'm gladdened to know that in real life..... things aren't really as divisive as this election appears to be.....

Help In over my head:
If anyone is familiar with Word Press please let my know,
Thank You

Flag issues.

The wearing of flags by elected officials is usually meaningless. Sometimes they are worn out of genuine 'I wake up in the morning thanking God that I was born in the USA sentiments', but I think more often they are worn as a badge on the politician's uniform of the day.

On one visit, my daughter gave me a flag necktie insisting that I wear it. I agreed (my plan was to wear it once and then leave it in the closet).

The chosen day was the monthly Tampa Bay League of Cities meeting. Of course, the sessions always started with the Pledge of Allegiance during which there were always the same two or three people who tried to speak the words as loudly as possible so they would be heard over the crowd. This particular morning, someone neglected to bring the flag. So, our resourceful chair, not missing a beat, said, "Everybody, let's all turn towards Flatus and recite the Pledge."

There was nothing the old guy could do but puff out his chest and look resplendent.

---

I'm offended when I watch on TV and see an official or a candidate standing in front of a wall of flags each neatly massaged into a 'necktie' drape. What a phony display of patriotism. It reminds of how dictators of the former Soviet Union used to legitimize their status with the same types of displays.

Can anyone imagine any of the real elected heroes of our country doing the same thing?

It used to be one flag hanging naturally. That's all that was needed to solemnize the occasion.

I wish we could get back to those days.

Bear,

1. Your lack of concern now for Iraq in general and the geopolitical tensions in the Gulf seem to indicate a screw-them-all-and-let's-get-out policy. I suspect you had no real problems with Saddam. This abdication of US leadership is what many Obama supporters think, so you are hardly alone.. Unfortunately, Zbig, McPeak, Rice, Powers and other Obama advisors are actually a strange strain of interventionists. So the problem with the Obama camp is a.) many support the abdication position and b.) many support the strange interventionist positions of Obama advisors. By strange I mean provoking the Soviets into Afghnistan while pulling the rug from under the Shah without any moderates in place (Zbig), or invading the Middle East and rebuilding a Palestinian State with the foreign aid money going to Israel (Powers).

2. To make such a generalized statements about how the Iraqis have squandered our money and would rather we die than themselves is not factual. Sure, many are corrupt and many have tried to kill us. Not exactly the case at the beginning. Most Iraqis want peace and have not gotten any money. They have died in far greater numbers than US troops at the hands of other Muslims. The problem was and is getting the three major factions (their leadership) to balance each other enough to force a compromise. I remind you that many Lefty intellectuals said any coalition between the Kurds and Sunnis would never work and that the Shia had a right to vote themselves dictators by some strange view of what Democracy is. See Coles' view.
This was never going to be easy and Bush blew a few thousand US lives and a few hundred billion. Great job! Our present costs are still below a trillion.

3. We are still in Korea, Germany and Bosnia. What greater effect on the balance of power in the Middle East could there be with a stable an reformed Iraq? Sure beats more warfare with Syria, Hizb'Allah and even Iran. And do you imagine Gaddafi and the Mullahs didn't blink because of our invasion? If it takes another five years and we see a Democratic and pro-Western Iraq emerge, it will be worth it. And of course, the Russians and others like Iran who support Sadr would move in once we retreat. The question is getting Iraqis to pay more for the help we are giving and I can point to all the international donors to Afghanistan and Iraq that have not come through. The biggest question is why so few are helping Iraq. The French are beginning to come around slowly.

One person who profitted in Iraq was Auchi. He helped Rezko who helped both Khadili and Obama. I bet he helped Trinity and Duval Patrick, but this is another matter.

Were Obama to express your opinion he is toast, but the more Obama supporters take your line, the more the majority of Americans will see an Obama adminsitration cutting that Iranian Bargin General Odum talks about, screwing Israel and retreating from the Carter Doctrine fashined by Zbig himself. Can you see the irony? Yep, extremism is contained, Despots are thwarted from the bomb and peace is encouraged by our retreat and neglect of alliances. Hillary Clinton and McCain do not support such a notion. Let's be honest Bear, the screw the Middle East advocates have gravitated towards Obama and follishly think we can know who attacks us one day. Read this:

http://armchairgeneralist.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/03/nuke-forensics.html

There is only going up or going down. Status Quo has become an illusion.

Flatus

"candidate standing in front of a wall of flags each neatly massaged into a 'necktie' drape. What a phony display of patriotism."

It's worse than you might think. Prior to the Spanish American War, you rarely saw a flag on anything other than a ship or government building. Red, White, and Blue bunting yes, flags no. At the end of the 1800s the pledge was written as part of the Christian Socialist movement and published in a boys magazine. Some schools took up the practice of saying it and children used an arm extended salute.

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/2730/1892pledgeofallegiance2hy7.jpg

When Hitler came to power as head of the National Socialists, the arm extended was dropped in favor of hand over the heart. Now once we got past WWII, we weren't too fond of those Godless Communists, so in as part of the whole schtick, "Under God" got added in 1954. While not officially changed, pro life folks now add "born and unborn" at the end of the pledge.

We are the only country on the face of the earth whose citizens are expected to take a loyalty oath at most public events.

I'll tackle the Hillary/Sinbad '08 ticket for Warren. Let's see....what are Sinbad's qualifications and positives? In 1996 , he was in the movie "Jingle All The Way" with Arnold Schwarzenegger. You may know that Arnold is the Governor of California. Having Schwarzenegger's endorsement would surely help Hillary/Sinbad '08 win California in the general election. Also , if you remember , the plot in "Jingle All The Way" surrounded Sinbad and Arnold's quest to buy the toy "Turbo Man". Sinbad would stop at nothing to get the "Turbo Man" toy. That would also serve Hillary/Sinbad '08 well because we already know that Hillary

Dexter, you obviously didn't watch Front Line very well. Bush/Cheney and Rumsfeld called the shots and pushed away Rice/Powell/McCain. The French and Russians played a big role in thwarting a compromise. The military was split, but Franks didn't want to worry about any phase four planning. He wanted the military out after Saddam was caught. Bremer was a fool. but Front Line did not mention that the Democrats supported the DeBa'athification and the disbanding of the Iraqi military. Democrats did not protest the slant give the Shia.

So how you pin this all on McCain is curious. Read FIASCO by Ricks and pay attention to the last chapter. There is alot of blame to go around from the military to Bush. McCain AND HIllary were quite vocal in their contempt for the planning, but both acknowledged the dangers of Saddam without sanctions -rebuilding his military and WMD. You attack the Right but fail to see the Left had no plan. History has not shown the Left was RIght. The best apporach would have been to support Hillary's plan and McCain was hardly far from her position.

The Front Line story also showed the role the NIE played in what Congress knew about Saddam's activities. Again, to blame this all on McCain and call him names is just the kind of vilification that will turn Americans off to Obama supporters come November. And if Obama does pivot, he will look even more pandering than he does already. At least Hillary was consistent from her position in 2002, her distain for Bush planning, her anger at Rumsfeld and the unnecessary mess removing a clear threat in Saddam has become under Republican leadership. This is not Obama's position.

Thanks for the civics lesson, Jamie. Shows how easily we're manipulated.

I'll tackle the Hillary/Sinbad '08 ticket for Warren. Let's see....what are Sinbad's qualifications and positives? In 1996 , he was in the movie "Jingle All The Way" with Arnold Schwarzenegger. You may know that Arnold is the Governor of California. Having Schwarzenegger's endorsement would surely help Hillary/Sinbad '08 win California in the general election. Also , if you remember , the plot in "Jingle All The Way" surrounded Sinbad and Arnold's quest to buy the toy "Turbo Man". Sinbad would stop at nothing to get the "Turbo Man" toy. That would also serve Hillary/Sinbad '08 well because we already know that Hillary will stop at nothing to become the Presidential nominee for the Dems. Sinbad was born in Benton Harbor , MI. We all know that Michigan is a crucial state in this election. Sinbad's ties to Michigan would also serve Hillary/Sinbad '08 well. Those are just a few reasons why Hillary/Sinbad '08 could win this election.

Sorry for the posting mishap!!!

"Shows how easily we're manipulated"

That super patriotism has gotten us in trouble more than once, but then I cry when reading Mark Twain's War Prayer written in protest over the Spanish American war.

http://www.ntua.gr/lurk/making/warprayer.html

"O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it"

Heather, I don't believe elected officials are necessarily employees. I had to show my pay as being self-employment income. Had to pay the employer's share of social security, etc.

I think we were regarded as charter officials of the municipality.

Our small city had many more elected officials than the federal government.

I always enjoy your posts!

" So, our resourceful chair, not missing a beat, said, "Everybody, let's all turn towards Flatus and recite the Pledge."

Flatus....that's one of the funniest stories I've ever read! Thanks!

Clarifying, than the executive branch of the federal government. :-)

" I suspect you had no real problems with Saddam. "

Call me a traiter, Max, but I think they were a hell of a lot better off under Saddam Hussein. At least in his dictatorship they just had to keep their heads down. Our shock and awe changed all that. Keeping your head down don't mean crap.

Patsi,

Max may have forgotten that there was a time when he was our bad guy to counter the Russian's bad guy in Iran. Remove Saddam and the Sunnis and here comes Iran and the Shiites.

People who don't know history are doomed to screw it up all over again.

Obama - back in the day:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080326/ap_on_el_pr/obama_high_school

Clinton/Sinbad '08

-Jingle all the way to the White House

Thank You Flatus:

I feels good to be appreciated, for a while seemed like everything I posted people took offense to. I felt maybe I was doing everything wrong.

--Heather

You are definitely doing everything wrong Heather!!

(Just kidding - we love you - plus your a Yankees fan!!)

Jamie Rubin Nails It ( and Andrea Mitchell)

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/26/jamie-rubin-nails-it-and-andrea-mitchell/

Gordo. Great clip of the Rubin-Mitchell cage match.

It's almost just amusement at this point -- the cable news press has so totally abdicated its role as an honest broker of information or as a purveyor of objective reporting. Andrea Mitchell just looked ridiculous and argumentative in that clip -- not a good place for a supposedly objective journalist to be.

Thanks for the post.

Thanks for the clip Gordo. Superb.

"I feels good to be appreciated, for a while seemed like everything I posted people took offense to. I felt maybe I was doing everything wrong."
Posted by: Heather | March 26, 2008 5:47 PM

Heather...your Irish Catholicness is showing bigtime in that post!

Wow, Jamie Rubin really did nail Andrea Mitchell. And I agree with most of the respondents. She is a witch with a capital B..

Too bad Hillary does not have more people like Jamie coming forward and telling it like it is...

Hillary will be on Greta Van Susteran on Fox tonight. WIll be really interesting to see what kind of an interview she gets...

This should tweak one of our lurkers:

"Yesterday, the Liberty City Democratic Club, a leading LGBT political group in PA, overwhelmingly endorsed Hillary. “[Hillary’s] record of accomplishment is proof positive that she'll be a fighter for the LGBT community …We need her experience working for us.""

I haven't forgotten anything.

The idea that Iran and Iraq should build their armies and WMD with impunity, exploit their terror networks, threaten Israel and fuel their ambitions without the blowback effecting us is serious "forgetting". Every time we forget. we pay the price. Have you forgetten how the US usually ends up in war? And have you forgotten the speed by which technology makes WMD and their delivery systems more fingerprintless and cheaper? You you forget that what is happening in Africa is fueled by the power of extremism now facing us in Iraq?

So go dig a hole eveyone and put your heads in it. Let Afghanistan go to the dogs, Let the moderates in Pakistan end up being blown away by militants and provoke India. Let Hizb'Allah attack Israel as Syria now hass Assad's brother cross into Lebanese terrotory with Syrian soldiers. You all think the radiation won't be spread fairly when the shit hits the fan?

This indifference is just fantasy based on a poor understanding of human behavior. How do you think altruistic cooperation works? It is a function of altruistic punishment and enforcement.

Maybe yall should start here:

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/102/19/7047

and then work outward from the basic evolutionary observations using the latest research.

Or perhaps you forget what one nasty attack would do to the economy. The world is becoming a giant glass house as more groups search for the bigger rocks. How does Iraq figure into that? The forces at work in Iraq and those regimes involved in Iraq are also part of a broader conflict. The reformation of Islam will not be achieved by our appeasment or retreat. Quds works with Chavez. North Korea worked with Assad. Don't think because you all sit comfortably in America the winds won't blow our way. It is either up or down in the real world. If we don't want to make any sacrifice, then certainly Obama should give up quoting JFK.

You and I did not put Saddam in power. He is a direct line from the Nazis via the Grand Mufti. Read your history. We either play an active role (as smart as we can), or just wait until the inevitible happens and future generations ask us how the F we let our leadership and defense of Liberty erode into a complete self-interested retreat into stupdity. As Lard might say, We are responsible for everything". Tolstoy didn't need film.

http://www.memritv.org/clip_transcript/en/1716.htm

One of the classic "bad guys" of motion pictures has passed away: Richard Widmark, 93

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hxINQEV4UElzDcPhhnteZedRciWQ

Max...nice post. Remember when foreign policy was as simple as Quemoy and Matsu? Those were the good old days. :)

Wendy. Nice try. He'll just dismiss them as Bridge and Tunnel Gays. (BTGs?)

What would happen if I called Andrea a bitch??

I also don't think you Clintonites would take to kindly to a male advocate of Obama's laying into her...

But as long as we all agree that - at this point - there is no way to move past the double-standard of seeing things in the way that supports our respective candidates - so be it (I guess).

Warren...I'm not tracking that post about calling Andrea a bad name. What were you getting at?

LL: Julie called her a witch with a capital B. I believe that is what Warren is referring to.

LL, simple?? I think not. If you can find it, Tuchman's Stillwell and the American Experience in China is a tremendous read.

Max.....let me see if I have this straight......bush and cheney blew it by blowing off mccain, condi and powell, etc.....and mccain could fix it now, so you want to vote for hillary....

Okay. Thanks Ally. I get it now. Earth to Lardass.

Flatus...thanks for the reference. I may check it out.

good one for these days is Barbara Tuchman's THE MARCH OF FOLLY........

Warren...whether your an Obama supporter or a Clinton supporter, I think the biggest takeaway from the cable news abdication of objectivity is the fact that the public is being so poorly served. It's total advocacy journalism -- whether you're watching MSNBC or Fox in particular, and to a lesser extent CNN.

I don't think it should be up to the viewing public to decide which cable channel is for which candidate, and therefore which subjective lens of coverage to correct for in making an assessment of what the truth might be. That used to be the job of honest brokers of information called journalists.

Just keeping with the theme

Devil woman, Marty Robbins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7hCuDL8j2M

Jack

I apologize, I should not have called Andrea Mitchell a name in public. It is my opinion only and I should not have subjected it to other people.

It does however gall me no end, that the msm can atttack Hillary's creditabilty on a louse thing like the Bosnia trip which is insignificant when put up again Obama on national television in seven interview Lied through his teeth and said he did not hear any of Rev. Wright flaming sermons.. Obama calls her a Liar and msm lets it go, when he is the proven liar over and over.
Talk of someone being pushed down our throats. It is the Obama campaign..
They are definitely running scared when all they can do is get on tv and try to force her to back down.

I admit she cannot win without the sd. However neither can he. And the spread is not all the much and may get closer when it is all said and done.

Julie

This is a video by a friend's autistic 14 yr old son.....He's fascinated by traffic lights and has made his own and bought real ones.....this is his movie.....the end is a good sequence......

traffic lights in Englewood....(co)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CPMYLoT7MI

This is a video by a friend's autistic 14 yr old son.....He's fascinated by traffic lights and has made his own and bought real ones.....this is his movie.....the end is a good sequence......

traffic lights in Englewood....(co)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CPMYLoT7MI

Just finished a couple of hours Hillary sign-holding at busy traffic parts of Salem..Lots of positive feedback and a few personal insults..

It seems the bigger the truck, the dumber the driver..This excludes those who actually need a big trucik.

I think this kind of activity is good evidence of grassroots support .

I know a couple of people have made fun of this activity,but I don't really care.

II like being out thre..saying I support a particular candidate. I encourage others to do the same, whoever you support.

Tom Paxton, Last thing on my mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voqL5ksOuoo

Jack

George W. Told The Nation ( By Tom Paxton)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft36GQMmvXs

Jack

Sturg,

I have posted enough bandwidth on the matter. I'll try the Monarch Notes approach.

Saddam was a bad and dangerous guy. Both Democrats and Republicans wanted him declawed or removed. Bush decided to do it his way with the advise of Cheney and Rumsfeld. They shut out Rice and Powell to a large extent and had no real plan of what to do after Saddam was caught. Hillary and several other notable Democrats had an alternative strategy to the Bush plan. It may have worked getting us more allies and a no-veto pledge from France and Russia. We needed to be firm AND SHREWD. Nillary and her supporters stated it rather clearly at the time. When Bush used his authorization to use force while troops were still getting sea sick off the coast of Turkey, it became apparent to McCain, Hagel and most Democrats that the planning and timing was wrong. No one spoke during the openning days of combat. Events unfolded and after the initial invasion it was obvious something was very wrong. McCain and Hillary, Biden and others expressed grave concerns about the planning involved. We all watched the looting. The mistake was for the GOP to have shut out the Democrats. Together a gang of twenty could have demanded much more from Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld. Instead it took years of fighting and bad news from Iraq for McCain to finally score a victory, while BIden and Hillary backed up McCain's anger. Rice had battled with Rumsfeld and eventually won the day by replacing "let's leave" with Powell's "we broke it, we had better "clear, hold and rebuild".

End of Monarch Notes.

Hillary had the right idea from the start. I would prefer her over McCain for numerous socially liberal sentiments. If Obama is the nominee, I would have to weigh the divisiveness his election will bring, the inability to forward his socially liberal ideals and the dangers of his foreign policy and actions. In that regard, a Democratic Congress checking a better national security guy, might be the better option.

Cooperation is helped by talking, no doubt, but real cooperation is based on our genetic capacity to impliment enforcement of rules and punishment for not obeying them. We are witnessing extremism across the globe while the world can't even prevent genocide in Darfur. We see our Liberal ideals challenged in China and Russia and mocked in various fundie countries. Jefferson saw the logical necessity to advance Liberal Democray, not wait until danger encroached on the approaches of our markets and interests. Had we not the vision to spread our free markets to Asia, Japan might be in control of Asia. Had we sat back and retreated from Hitler or Stalin, the world would be very different.

No one has answered why Obama? What will he do? His advisors suck, his history part fiction, his policies ranging from no sanction to nuking Iran. His stumping is like cut and pastes from former notable speeches. Give me a good reason and maybe I'll listen. I do not think he is credible and I brought up Iraq to show he had no plan, he bypasses the serious problems and difficult options and bases his claim on the WH on his supreme judgement. Good luck with that singularity.

I swear I have little ideology save my understanding of the Liberal and Federalist underpinnings of our Constitution and history. I could care less Obama is black. I just do not see what he offers that isn't some vague sales pitch. I don't want Zbig, Skeletor, Malley or Powers. I'm tired of Rice. I would walk on Wright and Meeks and Rezko was a pathetic source of funding linked all the way to starving Iraqi children. Barak has no Senate history and no bold action in Illinois. So what is the big deal? His wife bothers me and his supporters range from moonbats to the new Black Panthers. Yes, a lot of affluent White voters seem to like him, but then these people live in a giant bubble themselves and project much of what they want on what Obama will do. Maybe, they think, Obma will be the Michael Jordan of politics or the Pele of diplomacy.

I guess I leave my fantasy to watchin BattleStar.

Maybe he is a projection of what we want to believe. I haven't had the kool aid to go along with this pitch, sorry. The next four years will make 9/11 look tame. We have got to help Islamic reformation and stopp the nexus between criminals, terrorists and WMD. Our allies are lame and Russia and China are growing. We need democratic Reagan and Obama is far from that. Clinton has a better track record on the economy, is more the hawk, has a bipartisan history and is tough.

No one has given me a reason and the slim lead Obama has is a figment of the DNC process and does not represent the true majority sentiment of Democratic voters.

OD: Good job supporting Hillary. Anybody who makes fun of you is a doofus. Did you say you were in the Portland area?

Julie and LL

Andrea got to me earlier today when if I had been in the studio, misspelled witch would have been the kindest name I would have called her.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/03/hillarys-bosnian-fib-play.html#comment-58569

LL

I think the MSM is what is at fault for all of that "revenge voting" that Tweety was going on about. I know that a great deal of my intense resistance to Sen. Obama is because I so loathe the coverage of Sen. Clinton. Their unalloyed adoration of Obama is so nauseating that right now I would have to be dragged kicking and screaming to the polls if he is the nominee.

Jamie...LOL. I saw that comment earlier today about Andrea and got a big belly laugh out of it.

As far as the coverage of Clinton in general, I think we need to say no more than the fact that a so-called "serious" news organization actually displayed side-by-side mugshots of Hillary and Tonya Harding today. It's been mentioned here, and I saw it myself while I was exercising this morning. I COULD NOT BELIEVE IT!!

Totally over the top. And it wasn't based on anything Hillary said, or anything Obama said...just a couple of clever-snarky column references out of left field. And suddenly...it's worth displaying as a graphic???

Has MSNBC ever covered as "news" any of MoDo's other flights of fancy? Like juxtaposing mugshots of Cheney with "Mr. Burns" from the Simpsons, or Bush with Smithers, or whatever? Or Obama with Bambi? It is just a totally ridiculous embarrasment.

Why Apologize Julie, you were just calling it the way you see it. MIchelle has worse things about Bill.

I don't see Obama apologizing for what Wright and Meeks say. Hell, he claims he never heard the bad stuff...LOL

McCain listen when someone called Hillary a bitch and did little. If candidates should be tough, so should media. I think Mathews is an ass and I once sent Olberman an email blasting him for very unpatriotic comments he made. Once these news people become pundits and judges spewing out their opinions every night, they better get used to far worse bites than bitch.

Craig, is a mellow dude and refrains from much of the nonsense that is sold as news. I guess real journalism is going the way of the Dodo bird.

For those fighting for the environment.

Tom Paxton, Whose garden was this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB0gLxPaPV8

Jack

Smears and Tears: How Obama' National Security Week Turned Into the Mendacity of Hype

Expert Guest Post by Joseph C. Wilson

"Brzezinski was not asked and did not explain why Obama early embraced him as an adviser and openly praised him, but recently has coldly distanced himself because of Brzezinski's controversial views on Israel.

Nor did Brzezinski address the bloody issue of mercenary forces like Blackwater, which Obama states should be allowed to remain part of our military force in Iraq -- a position challenged by Senator Clinton, who has called for phasing them out. In place of practical policies, Brzezinski offered his vague "sense" that Obama is a person who understands change before it takes place and is therefore capable of making "transcendental" decisions, whatever that might mean. For a man with a reputation as tough-minded, Brzezinski retreated into cloudy abstraction in his defense of Obama, who, according to the Senator, he, Brzezinksi, knows hardly at all."

http://taylormarsh.com/

One of two things needs to happen, given all these trends in media coverage:

1. A truly serious media journalist -- like Ken Auletta in the New Yorker -- needs to do a total, post-mortem takedown of these jokers after all the dust has settled. I'm talking exhaustively researched. 10,000 words, minimum. Totally definitive. Totally shaming. And powerful enough that it will do more than just create more BUZZ FOR A DAY -- no, it needs to be powerful enough that it would actually end the careers of jokers like Matthews, Olbermann, Hannity, Scarborough, Abrams or whomever else you want to throw on the pile. Maybe even Russert. It would result in wholesale firings of NBC news executives and producers who have allowed this to happen. They're all losers and professional disgraces.

--so, either that needs to happen, or --

2. The American people need to totally internalize the attitude that Cable News in any form is not to be taken any more seriously than Wrestlemania.

One of those two things needs to happen, or I'm just going to check out as a serious citizen.

Jack...speaking of our environment, did you hear that an 860-square-mile chunk of Anarctica's ice shelf simply collapsed yesterday? That's been compared to three Manhattans falling into the ocean. And it happened, like, yesterday.
Supposedly, it unfolded over a long enough period that they were able to get helicopters up and take some pretty dramatic video. Haven't seen it yet. Will be interested to see it when it appears.

LardassLiberal----------------------

" needs to be powerful enough that it would actually end the careers of jokers like Matthews, Olbermann, Hannity, Scarborough, Abrams or whomever else you want to throw on the pile. Maybe even Russert."

You might be interested in The Daily Howler archives - provides plenty to think about.

http://dailyhowler.com/

Hey Gordo...thanks. I know that site, and the guy who runs it.

But sending out the little "dailyhowler" blog dinghy against the tidal wave I'm talking about is sort of like pissing into a tsunami and hoping to turn back the waters.

No. We need a total, center-ring takedown of this crap. By someone like Auletta. Or maybe...another Frontline documentary.

Lal

Who do we know who knows Aulettta well enough to FIRMLY suggest the subject. There is an mp3 to download on his site about the effects of the web on elections, so he might see it as a follow on possibility

http://www.kenauletta.com/index.html

Now I'm thinking the New Yorker piece needs to be 100,000 words, minimum.
That way...it'll at least be as long as one of Maxtrue's posts!
(Just joking, Max. Keep the gold coming)

"Cable News in any form is not to be taken any more seriously than Wrestlemania."

ROFL....too true.

Great traffic light video by Collin, sturg. Thanks for posting it!

Jamie...

Auletta is a seriously scary heavyweight dude. I've been in the same room with him a couple times and been introduced...but that's not enough to make me anything more than just the next crank calling him with a theory, if I did try to call him. And most of the folks I know in MSM are so "in the moment" with all this crap, that they aren't as outraged as I am.

Also...if he's worth his salt, he's already working on a story like this. He shouldn't need folks like us to suggest it.

Still, I'll cogitate further on your suggestion.

Johnny Cash, Hurt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmVAWKfJ4Go

Jack

Harbor...I loved the video Sturg posted too. It was beautiful.

I've read lots of articles about what it's like to be autistic. But the amazing thing about that video -- with the confusing, changing lights, and the constant whoosh of traffic -- is that you could actually start to FEEL what it was like. And it has nothing to do with the equipment used to make the video. It's all the mind behind the equipment.

Pretty amazing stuff. Sounds like someone needs to get a big federal grant to work with other autistic kids to make videos of what their lives are like.

Instead of just having experts tell us what their lives are like.

LL
There is a lot of stuff happening today. We've officially declared which side we will support in the up coming Iraq civil war. Wonder what we're going to do when all the nationalists join forces
*shrug*

What's another chunk of ice compared to calling HRC "Tonya Harding".

I wish I could join Anon and call it a conspiracy, but I'm afraid stupidity explains it all.

Jack

Major leage sonic boom over my house. Shook the walls. That means the shuttle just landed succesfully, 60 miles from here..

What we here in Central Florida learned from the 2003 Columbia shuttle disaster: If you don't hear a sonic boom, it can't be good news.

Jack. I absolutely hear you. You are what I think of as a "reverse-Darwinian", and I find it hard to argue with your points.

Now we need a "Traffic Lights" Trail Mix! Thanks for posting the video , Sturg!

Ya know, LL I'd like to ride that thing once. If I could just win a big enough lottery. I would by a ticket on the shuttle before I'd pay my bills.

Byrds , Mr Spaceman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs2NNUCDzis

Jack

That was beautiful Sturge, I have friend in Oregon whose Husband was elected to the State Legislature running on issues relating to Autism because their son Simon is autistic. This disease just breaks my heart, but it is amazing how talented and wonderful the children are when they have loving and supporting families and friends.

What we should be fighting about is why haven't our Congressional Leaders on both sides in Washington done more help and protect our children.

Jack...there's only about 10 flights left before they retire the shuttle for good. So you'd better hurry, my Missouri friend.

Putting on my tin foil cap: What is happening with MSM is not just a case of journalists with a bias - much bigger. Aulettta dare not write about this in depth - powerful forces would not like that. Accidents happen to people who do not cooperate.

In case you thought I was lying...here's what just happened:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/

Dear Lard:
I guess its time to give up, if my being Irish Catholic is offensive. Whats left?
:-((
--Heather

Heather...you're talking to someone who's just one step off the boat, and two steps off the sod, itself. I know Irish-Catholic when I see it...and did not mean that as an insult. I just got a kick out of your guilt and anguish. Sorry. Now I am feeling guilty!

LL

Maybe I can get kidnapped by aliens

Jack

Hey Lard is their going to be any take off's next week? I'm going to be in Cocoa Beach for Spring Break with my kids.

Yeah today I had some time to rant. I suggest you visit Stubborn Facts. Tully over there has told me he doesn't watch cable any more for the reasons you quote.

The NYT and NBC has fallen greatly too. One can see the link between the rise in irrational thinking and the poor reporting and journalism.

Who can rely on media to supply accurate and unflitered information? What will come forward as a better source of news?

And what really sells on TV? "Reality" TV. But of course much is staged and it isn't reality. I sense that this fundemental failure of good journalism and the refocusing by media of what "reality" is, has caused critical damage to both informed debate and our ability to adapt to serious trends.

America always had a frontier, an unfolding space to channel energy into. Without that door, we turn upon ourselves.

JennBe...sometimes you can catch an unmanned rocket launch. Not sure when the next shuttle launch is.

You can root around on the orlandosentinel.com website and find answers. They're pretty faithful about listing launches of any kind. Otherwise, try floridatoday.com...which is based on the Space Coast and is even more obsessive about every nut and bolt that falls regarding rockets and shuttles.

Give it a try.

Frankly I'm surprised they didn't do a side-by-side shot of Joe McCarthy and Bill Clinton last week. I was waiting for it.

Jack...if you actually do win the Lotto, you won't have to wait for aliens. The Russians are desperate for money, and they'll take you on a free ride to space if you have enough. So there's hope.

Don't Lard:
It's me not you, Don't worry all is okay. You are a nice person, intelligent witty sharp sense of humor.
Don't dare feel guilty Lard <3 :-))

Sincerely,
Heather

Heather...as an Irish-Catholic, I need my guilt, darkness and everpresent sense of injustice and doom. It's as routine as my coffee in the morning, and my whiskey at night.
So don't fret.

THE BYRDS "Eight miles high"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up6Xh3Gme1w

Jack

Matthews, Olbermann, Hannity, Scarborough, Abrams, Dowd, Rich, Huffington etc are not news reporters, they are merely pundits, someone who expresses an opinion. They are us, and nothing more. Unfortunately they will accept the title of news reporters should it mistakenly pass their door, and maybe even more regrettable most Americans don't know the difference.

I loved that Jamie Rubin-Andrea Mitchell smack-down of a video. Mitchell got steam-rolled and she never saw it coming. Mitchell is clearly shows sign of losing her once keen edge.

Max, and GORDO good stuff today. Right smack on the money, and it was so good that no one could seriously mount a defense. Kudos to both of you.

Maxtrue:
McCain has consistently praised Bush and gleefully accepted Bush's endorsement 2 weeks ago.
McCain has no exit strategy at all; he wants a constant presence in Iraq of US military battalions .
I am most decidedly not giving Democrats a pass for not attempting to end this war at the outset of Shock & Awe nor in the aftermath of the '06 elections.
If Frontline did anything, it presented the facts that much was not in acceptance by many in Congress. There was so much neglect by Congresspeople on both sides of the aisle even as to reading reports and documents which cast doubt on Saddam's weapons, it is pathetic.
Who buys the premise, bandied about by HRC, that she voted not for war but only to grant authority to the President? Not many.
As lie after lie promulgated involvement in this war, more and more Americans came to see what had occurred: we were lied to , but maybe we could exit anyway. Then the true incompetence of Bush and Cheney came apparent: all thos filtered down through them.
So, we had a presidential election in 2004 as the war had proven to be a huge disaster. We had a chance to dump Bush and Cheney and try something new.
Howard Dean had a plan. Then Dean imploded.
In the midst of a chance to dump Bush, a disgraceful excuse for a President, the US electorate gave the job right back to Bush.
What makes anyone think McCain, in many ways (nearly) a Bush clone, will lose?
We needed change in 2004 and we got 4 more years.

Thanks Lard, will do! We have a great view from the beach if they do have launch, keeping my fingers crossed!

Lal

Have you seen the documentary "Autism Is A World"?

It's coming on again soon as there have been ads on the last couple of days. The young woman is amazing. She has a genius IQ but needs someone with her to cope with the effects of her Autism and to voice the film for her.

The private company shuttle competition is pretty close to having a winner. One of the competitors was on TV this evening with their design. They are estimating that trips to circle the globe will run about $100,000

"I need my guilt, darkness and everpresent sense of injustice and doom"

Chortle chortle glee glee ... I get to go through life rediculously carefee even in the face of outrageous tragedy because folks like you do all the worrying for me.

Stephanie MIller just pondered the "pimping out" aspect of Chelsea Clinton's campaigning on Abrams. He wigged out a teensy bit.

Thanks Fry, but never leave Lard out of it and most Hillary supporters here have a sense of proportion. Many Obama supporters simply want something new and I can understand that too.

I have no doubt that Obama, Hillary and Bill, McCain would all do there best to protect and advance America. Each one has some credit to their record.

At the end of the day it will be how tough, how centered, what advisors they rely on and what strings attach to their ability to get things done. I regret American politics have been so sour for more than a decade. There is much blame to go around. I wish Republicans had stood up to Bush in a way he could understand and work with. I wish Democrats had not gone off the deep end in anger and frustration.

I hope the Adams Story ends with the letters Adams exchanged with Jefferson. Perhaps that can teach us something now. America was never Left or Right. It was the two forced together under the priority of keeping our Liberty and Freedom safe from those who seek to destroy it.

Two top stories from Yahoo:

Obama says McCain lacks ideas for economy at The Los Angeles Times - Wed, Mar 26, 2008

McCain hits Obama for 'old-style political attacks' at The Hill - Wed, Mar 26, 2008

Obama may be skinny - but he is tough!

Obama/Sinbad '08

-Showtime

(why didn't anyone comment on VVV - it is a riot!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB2xXbH87l0

I just tried climbing on my soapbox for a lengthy post about autism and toxins and such, but Craig captured it and is holding it hostage...and it was nowhere near finished! Will finish it if it ever gets released, and if the spirit still moves me.

My comments were largely directed at JennBe, but only because of her Republican leanings. I used to share them. It was my research into autism that led to my political changes.

Sustern on with more WRight comments and Hillary later in the show.

NBC

Hillary 45
Obama 45

If you haven't read them, these letters are remarkable

http://uncpress.unc.edu/chapters/cappon_adams.html

And they died together

http://www.homeofheroes.com/profiles/profiles_jeffadams.html

On his death bed on Independence Day, 1826 John Adams uttered his last words. They were "Thomas Jefferson survives."

It is rumored that upon Adam's death the messenger dispatched to carry the news to Jefferson's Virginia home actually passed a messenger dispatched from THAT site to Adam's home, also bearing sad tidings.

Just a few hours earlier Thomas Jefferson had passed away….both architects of the document that gave birth to this new Nation dead, 50 years to the day from the birth of the country they founded.

LL/Julie:

"I apologize, I should not have called Andrea Mitchell a name in public. It is my opinion only and I should not have subjected it to other people."

No apologies necessary. You can call Andrea whatever you want - it is your opinion.

And sorry LL - people have opinions and objectivity is a myth (especially with the political junkies that make up the media).

And sorrry pal - but a lot of people don't agree with you on who should be the next President. Their not all biased, stupid, sexist, naive or any other dismissive sillyness. We just disagree.

So you can keep telling me your opinion - but it ain't gospel.

I am going to continue to tell you mine. And so is everyone else!

And if you want HRC to win - you are going to need to start explaining why she will be a general election candidate and President instead of bitching and complaining about how everything is unfair and stacked against the Clintons. (The Clintons for Christ sakes!!) The most powerful political family on the planet (well - maybe neck and neck with Bush).

The former head of the DNC is her campaign chair. She had a wave of Super delegates publicly pledge their support to her - BEFORE any votes were cast.
And her machine is willing to publicly attack anyone who crosses her path (e.g., Richardson - who almost everyone in here spoke highly of before he came out for Obama).

Hillary can fight to the fucking Convention for all I care. But it would be nice if every once and awhile - you people could give Obama at least a little credit for what he has accomplished in this race.

Warren,

It isn't Sen. Obama that upsets us that much. My personal opinion is the that he hasn't been sufficiently vetted and is too inexperienced for the job, but he is to be admired for the quality of his campaign.

Our biggest problem is with the media that hasn't done its job. The totally one sided coverage (this Tanya Harding business today is just one example).

No one here expects them to treat Sen. Clinton with kid gloves, but we do expect that the coverage and investigation should be equal in depth and fairness or they should not pretend to be news outlets.

Harbor, if you would like to email me you can.
jennbertsch at embarqmail dot com. I would love to hear your perspective. My oldest son is is severe ADHD, and that is no way comparable to any part of the Autism spectrum, it has brought me together with parents who struggle with children who have fall under that spectrum.

LL

"I'm talking exhaustively researched. 10,000 words, minimum. Totally definitive. Totally shaming."

Why don't you get started on that Lardass. You probably have 10,000 words on here today (well - we may have to add in one or two of Maxtrue's posts).

You seem to be good at "shaming."

("shame" is about as useful as "worry" and the two tend to go hand in hand...)

LL:

"The American people need to totally internalize the attitude that Cable News in any form is not to be taken any more seriously than Wrestlemania."

The people on this blog take Cable News a heck of a lot more seriously than the average American.

(and in my younger days I took Wrestlemania very seriously!!)

Warren: "But it would be nice if every once and awhile - you people could give Obama at least a little credit for what he has accomplished in this race."

Warren who do you mean by "you people"? Is it a by name grouping, physical characteristics, age, sex, party?

What Democrats have been trying to do for decades is get rid of "you people" groupings.

Jamie,

I highly recommend the Pulitzer Prize winnng book by Joseph Ellis called :Founding Brithers". Ellis goes into detail discussing this remarkable exchange between two former enemies. Reluctantly Adams and Jefferson admit mistakes and accept flaws in their thinking. They do become friends and engage in an amazing reconciliation of opposing philosophical principles. It is a great book because it begins about the time of the Duel between Burr and Hamilton and explains the major Founding Fathers in terms of the great debate of their day: The Great Compromise. It is interesting to see how Federalists and Franklin challenged Jefferson and Madison over slavery and how Hamilton of all people died defending his claims of dishonesty about Burr (and this went back to the slavery issue). I strongly recommend it to those who think ideology of either side has a central position in the American experiment.

And there is a wonderful explanation of Washington's Farewell Speech, usually used as validating isolationism, which is not what Washington meant it to be. He was also very generous to his slaves and never forgave Jefferson for personal insults. If you think today's papers are tough, you haven't read colonial history.

Just a thought and yes, how amazing they both died on the same day, July fourth.

I belong to an Investment Club for women. Last night we had a meeting. Three women confided something to me that is rather alarming. They said that they will vote for McCain if HIllary is not the nominee but they won't tell anyone about it. They will say they are voting for Obama to avoid the wrath of their husbands and friends but, at this point, they don't believe they can actually make themselves vote for Obama because of the way they feel Hillary has gotten the shaft.

Do women hold grudges more than I think they do?

I don't know if this is a "trend" or an "anomaly" but it sure could skew polls.

Positive Obama List..

Intelligent
Articulate
Liberal
Good Husband
Good Father
Analytical Mind
Inspirational
Well-developed sense of humor
Hard Working

You people = Clinton supporters.

Us vs. Them - that is the way fights usually go. You have to dehumanize your opponent - if you really are dead set on tearing them to pieces...

(You people seem to have caught on to the concept ; )

Warren,

Chill. Have a smoke or a beer. Sorry for the many words today, but I have the inability to express myself in a few sentences...LOL. You know I left posts for you on McPeak this morning from an Air Force officer who new McPeak. I think you have a list of Obama advisors you can check out now and see if they represent a pattern you can trust. The issue of Wright is rather sad and Rezko gave them all money, some of which came from Auchi. So there is a general circle of associations and ideas that one can reasonably characterize. I will let you judge them yourself as well as the truth behind the Obama story and record.

I never had many kind words for Richardson who I think looked rather foolish during the debates. He can be affable, but his views are a bit strange. He did back-stab Clinton and I have been surprised by the number of Latinos that have told me so, but that is just a small sample.

Anyway, take heart. I have battled the Liberal cause over at Stubborn Facts for years with people far brighter and resumed than myself. Before that I battled the moonbats. Kudos to your effort to channel your passion. I will never take that from you. And between you and me, I wish that Obama was a Black RFK. I would be making calls for him every night. I tried to believe, but my head kept telling me to see the facts.

Hillary excellent on Greta

Founding Brothers I meant to say Jamie. And yes, Obama does have some admirable qualities. In fact, iven those attributes it is hard for me to reconcile his advisors, friendships, mentors, supporters and policies with his smarts. Since I don't think he is stupid, I see a conscious effort to fictionalize, resort to low blows, pander, triangulate, deflect, hide and avoid tough fights. That coupled to his policies underpinnings express by the associations he has and the comments he has made make me feel he is less electible and capable as a President.

Now if it was a vote between Cheney and Obama, I would certainly risk voting for Obama.

KO made a comment about McCain and Depends tonight. That guy has no credibility left in my book.

OD,
Yep and Rove is right about what Obama should do and that he probably won't regarding Michigan and Florida.

Warren,

I will leave the issues on Hillary to Heather & Maxtrue.
They can say it much more eloquently than I.

My train runs off the track when I get one the subject of politics ,another idea will pop in and just am not good at putting it in written form. Plus my blood pressure goes uppity when I get on the subject..

Obama has done extremely well with his campaign.
And I admire you for defending him and your right to do so. Do wish him well.. He should be commended for the things he has accomplished..

Julie

The only saving grace about creatures such as Keith Olberman is that he and the other cable blathers have miniscule audiences.

Does anyone know a good site that would give the actual cable viewing numbers?? Thans

If the Clintons sat idly by through the Wright-Wing Attack. That would be one thing.

But if they start fanning the flames of GOP racial politics - in order to try and win an election - HRC's chances to win this year will do down as well. And the Clinton legacy takes a hit (history is already happening - and why resist change?).

They need to stand up on Democratic principles and reject this bullshit. (If not - she stands to throw a hail-mary pass to McCain. Not intentionally. But the GOP gets to take Obama down and then blame it on the Clintons. It is absolutely diabolical. The GOP is smart. Pat B. keeps floating ideas - and the Clintons take them hook line and sinker...).

Negative attacks take both candidates down. We need to get back to LA - raise the playing field - and see who is the BEST candidate (not the worst).

If we can get past the sillyness - Hillary and Barack can get back to talking about the issues: Iraq and the Economy. We need sollutions now. Plus, McCain is busy trying to set himself up (but he is still providing plenty of ammunition.

This is about the general election people. Clinton and Obama should start running against McCain - and we should pick the one that does the best.

Deal?

(P.S. - you have till Apr. 22 ; )

Start saving the pennies. Your space ride will be ready next year or 2010

http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/03/26/xcors-lynx-will-fly-to-space-by-2010-virgnins-ss2-may-fly-by/

I'm curious, was that really Keith O.?

Ally,

One thing that has always upset men is that women remember things ... That insult from two decades ago on a wednesday at 4:00 p.m. when she was dead tired and he was just awwwwwwwwwwwwful
lol

Yes there are a lot of women who are like the ladies you mentioned. They feel rejected and disrespected by the Obama campaign and they are deeply angry. The pollsters know they are out there because they have heard the same rumors but they can't get any real numbers. If Sen. Obama ends up the nominee, he better remember the old T-Shirt:

"If mama aint happy, aint nobody happy". :-)

Jamie: Now that you mention it, my husband has probably said 5 REALLY MEAN things to me in the last 16 years and I remember the EXACT SPOT I was standing in when he said them...

Just have one thing to say about
the upcoming Pennsylvania primary.
To quote Paul Thorn, good ole Tupelo
boy and alt singer:

"It's a great day...to whup somebody's ass."

Jamie - spot on girl.

No 2 place or Hillary - Baloney - it will no 2 for Bo except his wife has clearly said they will not support Hillary even though Hillary has said she will support BO. And Bo has said he does not want the no 2 spot.. So shucks. He might have to go back to the senate and do some work on that Afghanistan committee he is on that has never ever had one hearing on as he is too busy.

Julie

Ending Tough Week and Slide in Polls, Obama Tries to Refocus Campaign
Advocate.com, CA - Mar 24, 2008
It was a particularly troubling week for Obama. National polling showed his fortunes slipping dramatically in the aftermath of the remarks by Rev.Wright

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp6Zx_fzpq8

.
See Warren,
if you had done your reading that I assigned you the first week you were in here, then you would understand what is happening to your beloved Obama.
Politics ain't bean bag and it is no place for amateurs.
Your man screwed up big time. I guessed that the Reverend Wright might have some screwy ideas but Obama sat in the pew and knew it. Yet he did nothing to prepare for the inevitable. By the time The shit hit the fan, we should have all been in love with lovable but eccentric Uncle Jerry. But NO it comes out as a big f---ing suprise, that is then totally miss handled by your man. He did just enough to limp through to the nomination but come election time he and the rest of us Democrats are screwed and you know it or you wouldn't have just posted this.

"If the Clintons sat idly by through the Wright-Wing Attack. That would be one thing.

But if they start fanning the flames of GOP racial politics - in order to try and win an election - HRC's chances to win this year will do down as well. And the Clinton legacy takes a hit (history is already happening - and why resist change?)."

Jack

There is video now of Michelle making another "that's America" remark. It was played once today, but I haven't seen it since.

You know the Republicans are saving these for the general.

Night Night all.

Matxrue:

"I have battled the Liberal cause over at Stubborn Facts for years with people far brighter and resumed than myself."

(I don't doubt that ; )

"I think you have a list of Obama advisors you can check out now and see if they represent a pattern you can trust."

I trust Samantha Power and I am not about to scurry around checking out your reading lists.

I have heard Obama himself articulate his Foreign Policy. And it is precisely the way to go.

Each year I base my vote on this issue (especially this one!!).

This is from the comment I posted earlier about Hillary impeding the Nixon Impeachment.

"After President Nixon's resignation a young lawyer, who shared an office with Hillary, confided in me that he was dismayed by her erroneous legal opinions and efforts to deny Nixon representation by counsel -- as well as an unwillingness to investigate Nixon. In my diary of August 12, 1974 I noted the following:

"John Labovitz apologized to me for the fact that months ago he and Hillary had lied to me [to conceal rules changes and dilatory tactics.] Labovitz said. 'That came from Yale.' I said "You mean Burke Marshall [Senator Ted Kennedy's chief political strategist, with whom Hillary regularly consulted in violation of House rules.] ' Labovitz said, 'Yes.' His apology was significant to me, not because it was a revelation but because of his contrition."

At that time Hillary Rodham was 27 years old. She had obtained a position on our committee staff through the political patronage of her former Yale law school professor Burke Marshall and Senator Ted Kennedy. Eventually, because of a number of her unethical practices I decided that I could not recommend her for any subsequent position of public or private trust. "

You can read the whole article at link below.

http://www.propeller.com/viewstory/2008/03/25/1974-hillary-lost-judiciary-committee-job-after-trying-to-block-nixon-impeachment/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.opednews.com%2Farticles%2Fopedne_jerry_ze_080325_1974_3a_hillary_lost_j.htm&frame=true

The world is changing fast. And if our Foreign Policy consists of: (i) asking people to go to war, and (ii) refusing to speak to (or only acknowledge through sanctions) - Sovereign Nations - until our often vague "pre-conditions" are met - we are going to get left behind.

The same author of anon paranoid's post attacks
Ted Kennedy in this story.
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/1/30/124842.shtml

Bob Woodward said Ziefman is not credible.

Conspiracy theorists like Ziefman

"He offers even less proof of his nutso Nixon impeachment conspiracy theory than Bush/Cheney did of WMDs in Iraq. Zeifman's book is popular with people who believe in black helicopters and that the moon landing was faked. "

Maxtrue earlier posted how Bush, Cheney , and Rumsfeld shut out Rice and Powell, and he mentioned McCain, who was a Senator then, of course, but not in the inner circle at all.
Well, Powell is a different type of case.
Tenet sort of brainwashed him to go to the UN in 2003 with that bullshit about aluminum tubes. It indeed says something about Powell that he insisted Tenet sit in the row behind him at the UN, and be visible to the cameras. It is the clearest case of puppeteering I can recall.
Sheila of TrailMix believes Powell is an honorable man and he was acting out of a belief he personally held as true when he went to the UN, but I have never shook the idea he was just plain lying and he knew it. I'll never forget that day when Powell was showing trucks in a grainy film or tape or digitalized whatever, saying they were aluminum tubes.
Curveball had those guys in Tenet's circle convinced; I think for some reason Powell wanted to believe Tenet, he didn't , but went along with the program and lied, and knew he was lying.
Of course, now Powell is being mentioned as a McCain veep possibility. Perfect. Another repugg who can bend and worse, allow himself to be twisted.
I'm sorry for repeating myself here, but for those who missed my post about what a great leader Powell was in Vietnam, it is sad to see him be bullied, brainwashed, and transformed by the jackals of the repugg high echelon.
Guys would follow Powell to the gates of hell in Vietnam, because they believed in him. Now, he's just a neocon errand runner.

Max:

"I never had many kind words for Richardson who I think looked rather foolish during the debates. He can be affable, but his views are a bit strange."

If you knew anything about anything you would know that Richardson does his best work in the backrooms. He is relatively new to the national stage (I am curious how you think you would do in your first Presidential debate Max....).

He is well-respected throughout the party - and this Country - and he is a great talent. Richardson also has experience in some of the critical challenges we face.

And I believe this despite the small-minded criticisms contained in your post.

(But I'll give you a pass since you are desperately trying to win the most important election we have seen this side of the 21st Century!!)

God BLESS America

"He is relatively new to the national stage "

New to you maybe , What are you ten years old?

Richardson has been a player on the national and international political scene for a long time. Remember most experience.?

I'll get off my horse and quit complaining about Bush's War if you will promise to at least take a look at this New Yorker (Magazine) article , co-authored by the great Errol Morris, about Abu Ghraib. I warn you, the text contains some of the most sickening shit you will ever read about US policy torture of inmates at the hell called Abu Graib.
anon paranoid is right...the true spirit of Nazi Germany lived in Rumsfeld's Abu Graib. Why, they even had an incinerator to burn the bodies, but that was there from the regime that fell.
What a world we live in. Jee-ee-zuss KREIST !!

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/03/24/080324fa_fact_gourevitch?yrail

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjOuL5qwNIc

LOL

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeees back.

LOL
must be boring over there in Obama land

Jack:

I posted it because I disagree with the way the Wright story is covered by some people - and exploited by others.

I think Obama tried to put the issue into context. Not "duck and run" and try to move to another topic or perhaps an attack at your opponent. He took it head on.

And when people try to replace the complex and emotional discussion of race - with sound bites that tell half the story - I take issue.

(And I don't care which half they tell - their both wrong.)

OD:

"I think you are both in need of serious counseling."

I think I would enjoy counseling. I like to talk about myself.

Nota fan:

New to the "national stage."

You know - the one that has been consumed with soap opera that is Washington.

It is more political theater than it is politics. And Hill and Bill have been the American Idols for decades now. It is time Bill rides off into the sunset and Hillary goes on to be Senate Majority Leader where her wonkish talents are best utilized.

The Pentagon on Wednesday said an eruption of violence in southern Iraq, where US-backed government forces were battling Shiite militias, was a "by-product of the success of the surge."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080326/pl_afp/iraqunrestuspentagon

Obama was forced to make his "race" speech because his back was up against the wall. He only spoke of race to deflect criticism of him. While that is a smart move politically I find myself always questioning his motives.

Seems like every day Obama is forced to distance himself from another advisor. However you won't see Keith "Our Burro" Olbermann making any special comments about that.

While Obama is an impressive individual the media has set the bar so low for greatness, the gushing and fawning over him becomes quite ridiculous after awhile.

As someone mentioned up thread, the American people are being done quite a disservice by the lazy corporate media. Media bias runs rampant and the lemmings follow one another into their annoying echo chamber. No one has an original thought and they build public figures up with no rhyme or reason as well as destroying them in the blink of an eye.

Not one media outlet does a good job of reporting news any more. They all want to be like Tweety Matthews and become the news themselves.

Do you really want to start agreeing with this woman:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucac/20080326/cm_ucac/hillaryswiftboated;_ylt=Au.CJXtX9YasOshvsk56ApMDW7oF

Talk about telling half a story. She then proceeds to make up the other half.

(And no one holds the Republican candidates responsible for the crazy things said by preachers from the evangelical right. In fact - some of those crazy things are exactly what get some Republicans out to the polls!).

From earlier today:

"I find this very troubling. I am not enamored with Obama but I would NEVER vote for McCain.

It's plain stupid.

GAKaren"

No kidding. The infighting here is just...OMG. To vote for McCain OUT OF SPITE FOR THE OTHER GUY?!?!?! Four more years of WHAT WE HAVE NOW, AND WHAT WE'VE HAD FOR THE LAST 8 FUCKING YEARS because you don't like Obama or you don't like Hills *whine whine whine*? HOW'S ****THAT**** BEEN WORKING OUT FOR US, ANYWAY??? 4,000 DEAD IN IRAQ! GAS AT NEARLY 5 BUCKS A GALLON HERE IN THE SF BAY AREA ALONE! THE US DOLLAR IS A WALKING JOKE! YOU CALL YOURSELVES DEMOCRATS AND YOU SAY YOU'RE GOING TO VOTE FOR ******MORE***** OF THIS SHIT?!?!?!?!?!

SHAME, SHAME ON ALL OF YOU WHO GO ALONG WITH THIS PETTY BULLSHIT!!!!

I wouldn't normally be so pissed off about this but I've been popping in here the past two weeks or so and just...Christ. Grow the fuck up, quite fighting amongst yourselves, and may God save the Democrats.

BECAUSE NOBODY ELSE WILL.

(Like my dear old late daddy said, I'LL VOTE FOR A YELLOW DOG BEFORE I VOTE REPUBLICAN.

Rest in peace, Daddy, at least *I'll* make you proud.)

Oh, here's a goddamn five-dollar bill for the swear jar.

*DISGUSTED*

Attack the messenger - even if he is just a supporter:

http://pundits.thehill.com/2008/03/26/land-of-opportunity/

Nice one Julia!

So is Rove saying Obama is a "liar" because he taught Constitutional law part-time for 10 years - but - "aha!" he was not a "professor"?

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/news/law-students-gave-Obama121807/index.html

Gimme a break. I am sure based on those 10 years he has a better grasp on the Constitution than Rove/Bush/Cheney combined.

(Rove sure wants Hillary to win - or at least fight this thing out as long as possible.)

See ya Hill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02EXYSuFHjw

Julia, good timing.

I was just about to say that when the Dem candidate is chosen, the polls will (or damned well should) be very different.

I don't think that regular Americans, even those who voted for Bush and still deny it, will want 4 more years with an old man who is having "senior moments". I'm having senior moments, and I don't want me up in the middle of the night making life & death decisions.

I haven't been reading here much or listening to KO when he beats issues into the ground.

The whole election thing has dragged on too long, already. I'm tired of hearing about Hilary under fire or not under fire or Obama's 3rd grade report card. Or whatever.

Whomever votes for McCain, and if he wins, they'll get what they deserve. Just like all the folks in bankruptcy and with defaulted home mortgages are getting. And just like all the folks without jobs or without health care.

If they vote for McCain, they will get 100 years more war.

tt

Whatever Jason. You are not going to make me retract my words.

I stand by my statement is Clinton is trying to downplay the results of the contests thus far (except of course the "big states"). Indeed, she has too!! Because she is losing.

No she is not getting blown out - but again - Obama has won more states, delegates and votes.

I have retracted some statements on certain occasions - but this ain't one of em. So get off your high horse buddy...

Posted by: Warren

My good man Warren.
This is now what I exactly was trying to show the blog community!
YOU GUYS CLAIM THAT HILLARY IS SAYING THINGS AND FORCEFULLY DEFEND YOURSELVES THAT SHE INDEED DID, BUT YOU NEVER HAVE / SHOW THE EVIDENCE TO BACK IT UP. WHY MAKE A LIE? BECAUSE THAT IS THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN TRY TO MAKE A POINT.
Sad!
And for the record, you do not have to retract the words anymore, the audacity of untruthfulness is upon......

And with regard to your tennis quote... Hmmmm, certain sports are for certain people who have some intellectual capabilities! And just for the record...that was a statement from myself, didn´t untruthfully quote anyone! LMPO

“Obama Fatigue is mounting rapidly among Democrats,”

Fatigue Hinders Obama Camp's Ground Game

David Brooks on Obama fading "Magic"

A friend just forwarded me a article by David Brooks which I totally missed. In it Brooks talks about people coming down from their Obama-high and many of these same people being afflicted by what he calls "Obama Comedown Syndrome" (OCS).

I think Brooks makes some really good points, if Obama possess such great crossover appeal why hasn't he done so while in the Senate and will he be able to should he ever be president.

Gordo,
the Jamie - Andrea clip is ver good!
Very Good.!

Thnx,

Jason:

"Mission Accomplished!!"

btw, my credibility is already shot here because I have been speaking the truth - as it is exists outside of Clintonia - for months.

Jason:

"And with regard to your tennis quote... Hmmmm, certain sports are for certain people who have some intellectual capabilities! And just for the record...that was a statement from myself, didn´t untruthfully quote anyone!"

I am glad you said that and not me.

Sheesh - listen to yourself once and awhile.

"Our mistake: The Sun-Times says that Obama and George Bush are 11th cousins, and Obama and Cheney are ninth cousins once removed. It seems we're all related.... "

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/10/16/414460.aspx

tt

"Obama's family tree expanded to include the Bushes and the Pitts"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/26/barackobama.hillaryclinton

tt

Sheesh - listen to yourself once and awhile.

Posted by: warren | March 27, 2008 2:33 AM

Can somebody tell me how Hllary did on the plastic surgeory show? I mean on Greta´s show?

Jason:

"YOU GUYS CLAIM THAT HILLARY IS SAYING THINGS AND FORCEFULLY DEFEND YOURSELVES THAT SHE INDEED DID, BUT YOU NEVER HAVE / SHOW THE EVIDENCE TO BACK IT UP. WHY MAKE A LIE? BECAUSE THAT IS THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN TRY TO MAKE A POINT."

(must you shout?)

Here is some evidence.

FL & MI

Clinton told a caller into a New Hampshire Public Radio program that the Michigan vote wouldn't matter. "It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything," she said.

Bosnia:

In a March 17 speech in Washington, Clinton said of the Bosnia trip: "I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base."

You saw the video.

NAFTA:

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?bid=1&pid=302252

(In fact, HRC's "Shame on you Barack Obama" was in part based on the Obama Campaign's charges about her not always being a critic of NAFTA.)

Canada:

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/06/7528/

(Facts are stubborn things - and so are the Clintons.)

Good night.

(and whether you support Obama or not - you are all a bunch of maniacs!!)

Maybe tomorrow I will take another "positive pledge." (maybe).

Warren,
I thought you were done on my point, or weren´t you?
I did not ask you for other points, I specifically asked youy for one specific remark that you made yesterday.
And still, you cannot come with the evidence!

Bro,
Its ok. No offense. do not worry. I´m ok. I just wanted the confirmation that there is lil´ difference between msm and you (on this specific point)

Night Warren...cool dreams.

@OD: If I were in my hometown (Fla.) I would take holidays and feverishly campign for Hill also. Good job man. The only thing I can do is donate...And I do that. In the process am not opening my credit card statements. LOL

Please dont waste time discussing spots, Hillary has to win this nomination...

And if for one reason she will not, I will not vote.
As a true democrat, I simply cannot vote for McCain, but will not put my vote for BO.
And it is not hatred, it is just what he is signalling to me. I do not see it happening.

AP

The article you link is Jerry Zeifman, author of Without Honor a pretty universally panned "conspiracy" book based solely on his own diaries of suspicions with few facts other than his own imaginings. There is literally no second source for any of it.

NEW THREAD

RELOAD

Craig's suggestion that a Clinton/Obama or Obama/Clinton dream ticket may be needed for Dems to win in Nov. were supported last week by Leon Panetta in Susan Page's USAToday article. This morning, Mario Cuomo make the same case in the Globe.

Craig: PLEASE get Chuck Todd to do a poll of dream ticket (in either order) vs McCain and anybody else!!!!!