Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

this Gaff will find it's way into the first 527 and or a Candidate's add on why McCain isn't "The One"....

I wish someone would speak more about the Gaffe, but its just not well timed. ;0)

Sheila, I'd rather talk about speeches, great speeches. Here's one smart groups list:
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/top100speechesall.html

That list, ignores the marvelous wartime speeches of Churchill.

It was troubling to see Lieberman whispering in his ear, but at least McCain did not wait to correct himself, it was done right then and there.

Actually Lieberman reminded me of the people jumping up and down outside the TV studios windows trying to get attention. Look mom, I'm on TV.

Criag, This comment is regarding the prior post.
A++++ for Craig - one of the only reports of BHO speach that trys to keep him on task.
BHO is Bait and switch - He tries to grab the hollier then now platform stepping away from the question and WHY NOW BHO? Sorry BHO you stepped in it and you still got STUFF on your shoes.
BHO lost points for his handling of the original question regarding the Rev Wright.

What makes me even sicker is the MSM is falling again at his feet with softball questions and worship like interviews. Oh my

Tomas Gordon...

Have you wrote to Hagee, Falwell, Robertson or Dobson about their hate speech.

How about Drug Addict Limpballs or insaHannity? There very bigoted and racists. Hell maybe you are to.

Unfortunately, I don't think this particular McCain gaffe has legs. Too many people just dump all Middle Easterners into the same bag, potential enemies. But I do think McCain is going to make more and more mistakes -- he already seems confused during his speeches. I really worry that senility is setting in. If so, it'll depend on whether his buddies in the press will actually question it.

Patsi, My - we almost agree again...

Can not judge McCain by the one mis statement - or anyone for the occasional gaffe. Look for the pattern.
I think Patsi hits a better point of possible weakness, did you see the last report on mental health and aging issues. This will be the one that others will carefully try to exploit.
McCain will be fine in the long run on foreign affairs vs either HRC or BHO - The question is how much run does he have remaining?

Patsi, I'm inclined to agree with you. I have senior moments much like his. Despite knowing exactly what is right or what I mean, I sometimes misspeak.

In his case, being beaten senseless numerous times surely cannot help.

He seems, at times, very much as Reagan did even in the early 1980s.

It's bad form to attack him for this. His stumbles should be noted and taken into consideration when it is time to vote.

Up here in Minnesota we're still waiting for Congressnutjob Michele Bachmann to reveal the details of Iran's secret plan to divide up Iraq:

http://ww3.startribune.com/bigquestionblog/?p=554

A flub Craig? It is a disgusting screwup by a man that would be President. He is cut from the same cloth as Bush..he doesn't know squat.

mornin' all.

How do you spell fear monger? JohnMcCainJohnMcCainJohnMcCain or is it AlQaidaAlQaidaAlQaida? I forget. Sorry Flatus - it's politics. You have to strike while the iron is hot . I have those moments, too, but I ain't trying to be the leader of the free world.

Craig, I can't believe that you have jumped from the most significant speech on race in the past 40 years so quickly. You are so in the tank for Clinton. hahahahahahaha

Mornin' Joe's take - great speech, but it ain't resonating with a lot of people - Harvard/Princeton couple tells America about the disadvantages of blacks in America? Do what? Maybe it won him the nomination, but it may have lost him PA and the general election - thank god for McCain's latest fear mongering screw up - without Holy Joe at his side to correct him, he could F up his chances to get elected. 16, or was it 36% of independents (I saw the poll results on the crawl before I had my first cuppa) say they are less likely to vote for Obama than before the speech. Mika looked like she found half a worm in her apple.

The polls I saw indicated that the speech wasn't a big help. Watch PA, that will tell the story.

I agree with Dusty......the fact that Lieberman felt it necessary to lean in and correct McCain just shows what an old nincompoop McCain is.......

news flash; obama has a crazy pastor.obama gives speech;all our problems are over .great

Dusty - take off the hate blinders and do some basic research - John McCain is McChange from Bush - your fear is he may be good enough to keep out true lack of experience from either BHO or HRC

my fear, on the other hand, is that the doddering old goof might actually be elected......

I should have said hey Dusty , Dust off your glasses....

Pogo - Fear Monger is one thing - but to see the threat and prepare - take action is a must.
Also BHO had a good speech - but do not forget the main reason that speech happened? Why - to Change the subject. Still on his shoe and it stinks.

McCain misspoke and he instantly corrected this and this is a non event.

The question for today is why BO threw his granny under the bus? Also on MOJO Buchanan faulted BO for showing poor judgement for 20 years regarding his pastor and then putting the onus on the public.

obamahead not getting his way falls out on the floor kicking and screaming
i want my obammy
i want my obammy

In listing the reasons for McCain's gaffe, one was overlooked -- the fact that he may just have FORGOTTEN due to age, the fact that campaigning is hard at any age, and worse when you really need a nap.

Then again, if he really DIDN'T EVER know the difference, that may well be worse.

deborah dickerson on Imus now......

(discussing obama and his speech.......)

Yea - the McCain flub is pretty funny. A little ray of hope in that the Dems might be able to wrestle over this thing and still win. Funny how it was Lieberman to correct him ROFL - a little more detail on the incident here.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/mccain-misspeaks-on-iran-al-qaeda/

Obama's lead over Clinton narrows: Reuters poll

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN1824791220080319

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democrat Barack Obama's big national lead over Hillary Clinton has all but evaporated in the U.S. presidential race, and both Democrats trail Republican John McCain, according a Reuters/Zogby poll released on Wednesday.

The poll showed Obama had only a statistically insignificant lead of 47 percent to 44 percent over Clinton, down sharply from a 14 point edge he held over her in February when he was riding the tide of 10 straight victories.

I put the McCain flub down to exhaustion from the trip. He was in Jordan and had been in Iraq previously; has several more stops before return.

BUT any chance he ran across Dick "they'll greet us with flowers" Cheney during the Iraq trip and was channeling our delusional VP?

Had blood drawn this morning. Had to fast all night long for it. Had breakfast at IHOP this morning. It was the best damn breakfast! Healthcare costs are now my #1 election concern. Speaking of Hope or the audacity of Hope...Hope College's mens basketball team is playing in the division III basketball final four this weekend in Salem , Virginia. So all of you remember to root for Hope this weekend.

Morning Corey.

After a few doctor's office visits , I realize why health care is such a big concern. Morning , Dog.

8)

I thought Frank Luntz did a great job of breaking down BHO speech yesterday.

news flash; obama has a crazy pastor.obama gives speech;all our problems are over .great
--mqw

Not so fast, my friend!!

BHO's speech alone, will not save us--we all know our problems will not be over until BHO is in the White House, with the Jeremiah Wright living in the Lincoln bedroom...until then, we will only be sitting around "talking about other distractions".

BHO/JAWjr '08

"What makes me even sicker is the MSM is falling again at his feet with softball questions and worship like interviews."

I've been watching the coverage now for two days and while I'm not surprised by the coverage...I do think it would have been a good time to examine Obama's record and hell Hillary's record for that matter on these issues and other related issues like gender and economic inequality.

Obama SAYS he wants to heal the nation but what (other than registering some voters in Chicago and giving money to his church) has he done to really do this?

I mean when one looks at the Rezko stuff and the # of slums in Obama's district while he was in state Senate - buildings that news reports say had the heat turned off during the winter. When asked - did Obama really say he didn't know? Wasn't it his job to know what was going on in the district he represented?

Another part of his speech talks about education and crumbling schools. Did he do anything as a state senator OR community organizer to make the schools better? OR did he just go around giving speeches saying we ought to do these things?

We know that as a state Senator legislation that other people had worked on had their legislation stripped from them and Obama's name put on it so he could get the credit. But other than the death penalty bill - what did he do for the people of HIS district to make their lives better - to save them from the slum lords like Tony Rezko - to make their schools better?

Hillary has been nit picked to death - of late even her role in getting SCHIPs program passed has come under fire only to be completely debunked.

But none-the-less, I would love for them to take some of the themes in Obama's speech expand the issues to that of gender and economic injustice and then compare the two track records to see who is really walking the walk.

I still believe Obama's 2004 Convention speech is a better speech but yesterday's speech had some very nice moments and certainly things in it no one will disagree. But unless there is something one can point to that backs up the words...it's still JUST WORDS.

Hi Gang, been a long time, was working in Japan didn't have a lot of internet access, I tried to catch up on recent posts looks like I've missed out on some great arguements :o)

Hillary Supporters: Tickets to Elton John go on sale in 4 minutes! Anyone going?

The meaning behind the WORDS...it's okay to spew hatred to the black community about white folks and our country. That is keeping the black community down and it is disgraceful for Obama to support it. That is keeping the hatred alive and filling the minds of many with lies. Which in turn fuels anger and more hatred.

Presidential I think NOT.

Did anybody notice that he read this speech from the Tele. This one should of come from his gut, it lost lose some of it's luster when he read it.

Wendy: Examine the record? Why now? It's much easier to swoon over a speech...just as the MSM has done for the last several months. My favorite part of the recent coverage was Sinbad's attempt to make himself relevant again. Good times.

Would you rather a have a president with crazy advisors or just himself be crazy?

John McCain's misstatement about Iran and Al Qaeda is akin to someone who would see Gene Simmon's daughter Sophie on television, recognizing that she is attractive and then declaring all of the sex acts they would like to perform on her...only to be corrected that she is only 16.

Some men are perverts for young kids, McCain is a pervert for war. If you are going to allow him off the hook when he is tired then we are going to be reading the following about the McCain presidency should it happen...

"While McCain Slept"

Sinbad, the comedian?? Seriously?? Oh Lord, I have to "google" this...LMAO!!

Should be an entertaining day for the Clinton bashers or at least a busy one. 11,000 pages to pore over and hopefully inspect to find out just who she was murdering, cheating or lying to on any given day while chanting "Turn The Page".

VAdaryl,

Now you are parsing on his technique and that is just boring. If he read it without a prompter, his detractors on this site and others would site it as an example that he is a pathological liar because they will say he was lying and making up those "heart felt words"

You need to also remember that for any speech of that magnitude, a written transcript is released around the time the speech starts. You can't do that if you completely ad lib. If he released one thing in writing and then ad libs a different speech, what would stop you from saying "What is Obama afraid of since he chose not to speak the words he told us he would? Just another case of an Obama lie because he writes one thing and says another"

Must-Watch: Frank Luntz on Obama’s Speech

"This was an exceptionally good segment on Fox News’s Hannity & Colmes tonight. No matter your views of Fox, Hannity, or Luntz, you will be riveted by Luntz’s astute analyses."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/18/must-watch-frank-luntz-on-obamas-speech/

Would you rather a have a president with crazy advisors or just himself be crazy?
--Bear

Neither one appeals to me...that's why I am voting for HRC!! 8~)

Lush

They dusted Sinbad off to once again nit pick Hillary's experience...AND...that's been debunked too.

Bear

In the movie "The Usual Suspects" the Kevin Spacey character says: "He doesn't fear the DEVIL but he fears Kaiser Soltay"... Well McCain may be the devil, but I fear Barack Obama. I find McCain the lesser of two evils.

Milquetoast for BO

Jamie:

Out of 11,000 pages...they'll be a couple of days in there where she had some folks over for tea and that's what will scroll along the bottom at MSNBO all day while they analyze it with Obamabot Susan Rice as the only expert opinion.

LIL,

That is the one benefit to being poll driven, you lack the courage or the permission to tackle a serious issue on your own. Don't think for a second that Hillary doesn't have a cadre of nut jobs around her as well. They just no how to look sane for the cameras, most of the time...

A lot of blogs have been deleted I've noticed, too bad guys I really enjoyed them, I am going to start one myself but have to come up with a snappy title first.

Bear I agree with you. (9:06am)

Hannah, sorry you don't remember me, what did you think of the ralley's ? where did you attend ?

Kaiser Soze

I didn't have a problem with BHO using a teleprompter. I do think he should have used only one, so he would have been looking directly into the camera...it would have been a nice touch. 8~)

Yea...I'm not sure what the big deal about him using a teleprompter to read the speech is? I mean it was a 30 minute speech that they just finished writing before he gave it - nobody - except for maybe Bill Clinton - can memorize a speech that quick. I know I couldn't.

Why is that a big deal?

[crinkles forehead]

Jamie

Thanks for the correction

Milquetoast

Hillary trys to endanger Texas delegates being seated.

http://www.newsmax.com/politics/texas_democratic_clinton/2008/03/17/81144.html

Bear

If you knew anything about me...you would know that one thing I do not lack is courage and I tackle serious issues, on my own, every single day of my life.

The only thing I really agree with on that Fox thing is that he did take a swipe at Ferraro - which was one of the things that turned it into more of a stump speech rather than something like the 2004 Convention speech.

I still think the bigger analysis should not be nit picking the speech apart but in analysing how the words match up with Obama's record of public service.

mccain is probably off his meds again. Flashbacks to previously used and then abandoned fables will be an increasingly ugly problem for the bush/mccain campaign.

Regarding the fraud that mccain is mcdifferent from bush, people who are old enough to remember the 2000 primary campaign will recall that bush promised no new nation-building. Read my lips: no new nation-building. It was mccain who was all strut and bluster, with mad conquistadore neo-conmen advisors at his side, like perl and wolfowitz.

If mccain is mcdifferent from bush, it is the bush of 2000, not the present bush who brags that he gets his invasion strategies and combat tactics directly from Jesus during midnight visits. And Jesus is all in favor of extended nation-building, and loony saber-rattling.

Nope, there is no daylight between the present bush and john mccain. You might almost call this campaign, bush/mccain 2000. In fact, we will. The big question is, will mccain's foreign policy be guided by Chelabi, the Iranian spy, the way bush administration was.

mccain is probably off his meds again. Flashbacks to previously used and then abandoned fables will be an increasingly ugly problem for the bush/mccain campaign.

Regarding the fraud that mccain is mcdifferent from bush, people who are old enough to remember the 2000 primary campaign will recall that bush promised no new nation-building. Read my lips: no new nation-building. It was mccain who was all strut and bluster, with mad conquistadore neo-conmen advisors at his side, like perl and wolfowitz.

If mccain is mcdifferent from bush, it is the bush of 2000, not the present bush who brags that he gets his invasion strategies and combat tactics directly from Jesus during midnight visits. And Jesus is all in favor of extended nation-building, and loony saber-rattling.

Nope, there is no daylight between the present bush and john mccain. You might almost call this campaign, bush/mccain 2000. In fact, we will. The big question is, will mccain's foreign policy be guided by Chelabi, the Iranian spy, the way bush administration was.

MQ

"Usual Suspects" - Great classic movie and my favorite Kevin Spacey role.

Now get out of the middle of the street and join us Clintonistas on the sidewalk. The Obamabots On Parade (Collectively known as OOPs) are marching by. You don't want to get trampled in the adoring throng.

Testing

"'During the O.J. trial, there was a similar moment when the culture  you know, black and white culture  just had these completely opposite reactions and nobody understood it," he said, admitting his belief that Simpson was guilty..."And I was ashamed for my own community to respond in that way...'"

Just as a follow-up to my anger yesterday - I've now forgiven O' for evoking OJ Simpson's name in his speech. A couple people pointed out that his mention of it was about how it turned into race rather than what it was - which I accepted but felt he did not go far enough to explain. This does and I'm happy O' saw the situation for what it really was - point for O'.

It's almost time to take a pause from our various candidates and watch the real obscenity:

Bush speaking on the 5th anniversary of the War On Iraq.

Start your morning drinking early. One shot for every "win" , "Al Qaeda", "terrorist", and "Freedom".

Goodness we are full of pretenders today. Lots of rightwingers pretending to be concerned democrats, lol
Not talking about you pingpong, your up front and honest.
Then we have the Hillary supporters who are joining in like fools, just happy to have something new to attack Obama with, no matter where it comes from.
The Reverend Jeremia Wright, ooooooooh a scary black man.
As to the McCain story it is just a boring story. Sunni, Shia? Who cares? They're just a bunch of rag head A-rabs , right? Boring story, lets go talk about the scary black man.
Here is an idea for HRC, to attack McCain
http://www.samefacts.com/archives/campaign_2008_/2008/03/retraction.php

Jack
yes, I'm still on my first cup of coffee. Why do you ask?

Wendy

That looks like it was from the nightline interview.
I didn't see it all but what I did see I liked.

Jack

In March of 1998
President Clinton began a national conversation on race. For those of you old enough, how many participated?

http://nationalserviceresources.org/filemanager/download/NatlServFellows/heierbacher.pdf

http://nationalserviceresources.org/filemanager/download/NatlServFellows/heierbacher.pdf

March of 1998
Did you participate in the national conversation on race.

What have you done since.

A good article from McClatchy on Obama's speech yesterday

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/30817.html

Jack

The posting of comments seems to be acting up. It is taking quite a while for changes to show up. It doesn't seem to be losing them, just hanging on longer than usual.

Good Morning Jack

I may be on the other side, but I'm opposed to the constantly changing names as well.

Milquetoast is new, but is staying Milquetoast so that's okay. It's the put a message in the "posted by" crowd that is so irritating.

Bush and McCain Have a Bad Hair Day
Will McCain Have Lieberman Next To Him At 3AM?
http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/19/will-mccain-have-lieberman-next-to-him-at-3am/#comments

Shorter Bush
Saddam bad. Me good.

"They're just a bunch of rag head A-rabs , right?"
--WhskyJack

yikes...

rag head A-rabs?

yikes...

I'm going to see Elton John! Let me know if anyone else is going!

yeah...I am having trouble posting comments.

I apologize for double posts, in advance. 8~)

did obama say yesterday that regular everday hardworking '' taxpaying'white folks are to blame for his pastor and friend's insanity't his will go over real well with the middle class in penn. sen. clinton might just get that 60% to 40% vote she needs

KGC
An article from the NY times on Clinton's National dialogue on race

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9401E2DA113DF934A35751C1A961958260&scp=5&sq=race%2C+clinton%2C+National+dialogue&st=nyt

If our Wise Leader, who began the Great Patriotic War of Iraqi Liberation five years ago today, did not need to know the difference between Sunnis and Shias, why should Senator McCain?

Gloss: Al Qaeda, being a vehemently Sunni organization, would not find it easy to accept an alliance with the vehemently Shiite government we are all familiar with in Iraq. Thus the likelihood is so low that even Lieberschmuck knew this, so he fed him a more generalized scare word instead. Great clip, will look good on YouTube and in any number of 527 ads.

(Brooklyn rather wet today, alas.)

Wishing all well this wet Wednesday, southpaws, wingnuts, Kool Aid drinkers of all stripes, even the members of the DNC, and the Florida and Michigan Democratic Executive Committees, and, yes, even Chairman Dean. He meant well, or something. Let's hope this comes to a close before they have to figure out a way to make it stop before Denver. Our nominee should get to fly to Iraq for a photo op too, the sooner the better.

Jack
that's an opinion piece -much like the one that called the red phone ad racist.

This is reporting. President Clinton made an effort.
Did you participate?
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9802E0DC1730F93BA2575AC0A96E958260

So why do some posts get frames and others don't. Can't be the long URL theory posted yesterday cause links don't come much longer than the NYT link I posted above. Yet in my browser ,no frames.

Jack

Oy vey
Senator Clinton's schedule as first lady is being released. How many reports on what she ate for breakfast will be forthcoming.

It will be interesting to see if there ia actual reporting.

just curious' i wonder is there any way to find out what rev. wright's net worth is'' or what his salary was'i bet he was making as much as those rich white folk that run this country

A thread about the Obama speech...

http://stubbornfacts.us/politics/2008_election/clever#comment-13687

Get a grip Jack. I got a call from the NSA and they said to tell you, you're cool with them so far, but watch it.

http://stubbornfacts.us/politics/2008_election/clever#comment-13687

A thread about the Obama speech

Get a grip Jack....

Obama may have more damage control to do if he comes out as the "I'm willing to disenfranchise voters if it benefits me politically" candidate

"Democratic National Committee Gives Blessing To Michigan Re-vote"

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03/democratic_national_committee_2.php

Jack -- I think it is when the lines you write bleed over into the right hand line. I've noticed that sometimes a word will not be quite long enough to flip to a new line, but backs right up on the right side...then those lines form. I'm gonna check it now, because none have done so.

Then I'm gonna re-check it and change the format a little.

every media outlet in the country have teams of investigators pouring over sen.clintons whitehouse papers trying to find something ''anything to nail her with in time for the evening news'
they can't spare one reporter to go to chicago and find if any obama's claim of public service is true'there should be hundreds of people there that he has hepled willing testify what he has done for them' i don't recall seeing one. NOT ONE

Obama SAYS he wants to heal the nation but what (other than registering some voters in Chicago and giving money to his church) has he done to really do this?

Hmm---- I pasted a previous post from Wendy -- one with those brackets....can't tell if it will make a difference or not...

The good thing about the general is that it is a 50-state race and you have to campaign all over the country. With this intense and hectic pace - Obama's youth gives him a clear edge in terms of stamina.

"And Obama's comment about Hillary's connection to the race issue is largely an Obama construct. He never mentions his role in playing race, does he? "

I read your post Max....thanks for just giving us a link!

I agree with what you wrote above, except that the
Clintons-as-race-baiters meme also came from the media... I did hear Andrea Mitchell, and a few others, make almost throwaway comments that they were receiving tons of emails from Obama's campaign staff in SC about things like Hillary's LBJ remark.

And I still don't consider Bill's Jesse Jackson comment racist, especially when you hear the question asked in the first place.

Obama's speech yesterday was aimed directly at the superdelegates. A lot of his lines sound close to some speeches RFK made, as a matter of fact. So when Jamie (I think) said she'd heard those sentiments before, she was right.

I saw the Moody Blues last night and if anyone gets a chance to see them...do it. Great concert...Justin's voice is still very strong and the guitar playing was excellent. Two females joined them and were awesome. Headed to Ft. Worth and Austin next..really miss the poetry of that era. A real flashback.

Wendy:

"I do think it would have been a good time to examine Obama's record and hell Hillary's record for that matter on these issues and other related issues like gender and economic inequality."

You say this - and then you proceed to just do a hit job on Obama's record and tell us nothing about HRC.

That is the problem with the Clinton campaign. They think the case is made for her - and all they have to do is tear down Obama.

Sorry - but that just isn't the case. Plenty of people outside Hillaryland - don't think she is the greatest thing since sliced bread (even though some of us respect her).

Stop trying to give me a reasons NOT to vote for Obama - and start trying to provide some reasons why people SHOULd vote for HRC.

If the speech sounds familiar
here's why

http://www.afn.org/~dks/race/clinton-e6.html

From one of the Boston papers:

"Instead, Obama took the opportunity to engage the question of race in America, starting a bold, uncomfortably honest conversation. He asked Americans to talk openly about the deep wells of anger and resentment over racism, discrimination, and affirmative action. It's a call to break out of the country's racial stalemate and finally reach a new national understanding. "

ROFL -- I gotta admit. Obama is brilliant. He took this whole flap and turned it into a finger pointing session.

Patsi,

I just find all this talk about race very odd as if it were just discovered on a distant planet somewhere. What about 43 years ago when I was sitting in my boyfriends appartment with a crowd of young people of about every possible racial combination having these conversations, thinking our relatives were crazy.

All I've done in the meantime is live a life, watching things get better but needing improvement - event after event - births, weddings, funerals, work situations, neighbors and now genealogy and pinochle at the senior center.

All of a sudden the great multiracial hope is leading the way to Nirvana while they bash a woman who has a history of trying to make changes over the same decades .... Give me a break!

Warren

Stop trying to give me a reasons NOT to vote for Clinton- and start trying to provide some reasons why people SHOULd vote for Obama besides buy the book.

Warren,

We aren't trying to give you a reason not to vote for him, we are asking that someone - anyone tell us what he has done. There simply is no evidence of any kind about his claims for "Community Organizer". What did he DO?

HIllary can point to dates and places with testimony from individuals of her personal actions. Why has no one from the media at least tried to put together a similar list for him.

He just seems to be all smoke and mirrors.

What is the matter with the comments today? It is taking ages for them to post. Is someone worried we are going to tear each other to shreds through the computer screens? :-)

You are right Pats. I left out the media's role. It was aimed at the Superdelegates and the affluent white liberals. He obviously thinks them less than smart enough to see through the ruse.

Okay, he can spin anti-American as racial. The truth is that he planned his pathway on the backs of several freinds and supporters. He rather spin his race lesson than be honest about the reality of political life.

Tully is rarely wrong. I suspect that Rezko/Auchi will surface again with more connections to elements not in our national interest. Khadili and Rezko have a connection and Khadili certainly has many anti-American things to say and did say them as spokesperson for the PLO when they were murdering civilians. Zbig and Malley can be connected to the anti-Zionist spin, so there is a circle Obama has created in his life's stroy that shares some common threads. This speaks to judgement, character and authenticity. I'll leave out former bombers and radicals who support Obama.

One thing should appear more likely: if Obama does get the nomination, he will likely loose to McCain as Reagan Democrats, offended Hillary supporters, disgusted Independents defect to a more authentic candidate. I have not decided my course, having never voted for a Republican. If Flordia doesn't count and Penn is a big victory for Hillary, I may vote for the first time in protest of a Party gone Wild. Pelosi/Dean is not what I had in mind as mainstream LIberal. Duval is a good example of what will happen with an Obama President with burdens on his back. America is not even as Liberal as Mass. There will be little money for Obama projects as our enemies sense our weakness. If Obama's preceptions of character are as weak as he has shown in Wright and Rezko, tlaking with Ahmadinejad is the last thing I want Obama to do...LOL. Tough, a good judge of character, consisitent, honest and prident is not how I would describe Barak Obama.

But then let us see the new polls.

Yes, you are right. Media plays a huge and unfortunate role in our less than informed public debate.

Warren...shame on you..."stamina to travel the US." Dissing HRC for her age. And BHO is not that young! "His youth gives him the advantage"...why are all of the BHO supporters so offensive? I can give you a ton of reasons to vote for HRC, but it will not convince you. Talk about discrimination.

Tylenol

Thinking of you and hoping all is well. I haven't seen a posting lately (but I haven't gone through all the threads gak!)

BLONDE WINO!!!

YOU SAW THE MOODY BLUES?!? WHERE!

When are they coming to Fort Worth?

They are one of my all time favorite bands...they helped me through my some traumatic times during my teen years...

Blondie:

I was actually comparing Obama to McCain. (I wouldn't make the same comparison to HRC cause I know she eats so many hot peppers ; )

I am so cynical today (and I had such a great night watching old people perform as they were young)...the media has turned the race into what they want and I really do not believe the JMc remark will hurt him in the long run. It will get doctored just like the rest of the political rhetoric. The general populace doesn't care as much as the bloggers or media.

I also thought BHO really dissed his grandmotherin his speech and used her to show how "old white woman" are afraid of black men (code). The print press actually edited that statement. And I wonder if his grandfather used racial slurs? I just find it all political and media manipulation.

And I still think JMc should pick Leibermann as his VP...GWB's kiss of JL made him republican and JMc could use the jewish vote against the dems.

Isn't "Life Strange?"

Et tu:

I think if you read through my posts - you will find plenty of reasons why you should vote for Obama.

Jamie
I'm not certain what sides your talking about. Except I'm a Democrat and want the Democratic candidate to win.

We have had 2 or 3 new posters since the Obama flap has started . They seem to keep posting only Republican attack points, over and over.
You btw have posted some of the more intelligent comments on the whole thing, IMNSHO.

KGC
yes it was opinion, but it made some interesting points.
Yes, I've attended a series of meetings on race. It was mostly folks talking past each other and rarely did the opposite sides admit that the other had a basis for their concerns . My best discussions on race have been with co-workers but only after we have gotten to trust each other

Lush
Its sarcasm, sorry it went past you. text is bad about that. I know this and should have labled it with brackets
My bad.

Max
The fact that you missed the point of my post yesterday speaks volumns about your intellegence. Then again You have expressed support for torture in here.......

Patsi
I've figured out the frames issue.
My comments don't get frames because they are very very important comments, unlike KGC or Wendy ;-P

Jack

Obama joined Trinity for the connections and cred. He most likely knew exactly what Wright was ranting about. He certainly knew Rezko had been indicited. Now he says he recieved more than $150,000 dollars. Bone-headed is not the term I would use and Obama elevated Wright to such a high mentorial position, not HRC supporters or Republicans. Disowning Wright would require undedicating his book. Maybe he could re-dedicate it to his Grandmother.

Obama would rather plunge into a self-created racial problem than reveal his conventional political tactics in extablishing his rise as a POLITICIAN. What community service. what bold record, what principled friendships and partnerships?

What Obama can't disown is the story he created. Audacious is not exactly the word I would use to describe it.

As far as the silly comment that Hillary supporters should not run against Obama, but for something. I can only add that Obama still runs against Bush and has taken many positions just because they are the opposite of Bush. Compared to the fumbling and problems with Obama for two weeks, Hillary looks great. Obama should apologize for never having found any proof Hillary spun those Drudge pictures of Obama in a Turbin.

Durbin and Obama. And I was born in Chicago. What a mess.

"Is someone worried we are going to tear each other to shreds through the computer screens? :-)"

LOL

that was in the back of my mind.

Jack

Since BO is so good at spin control, maybe he can be HRC's press secretary. However, he did have to find a balance and it was a good speech. That's his forte.

Wasn't the whole Imus debacle supposed to be what sparked our national debate? (And that, by the way, would not have happened if the players had not been female; gender was at the forefront of that one.)

Now age is a factor? I think the Reps have a pretty good handle on that already, having dealt with Ronnie Ray-gun's age.

I liked what Huckabee had to say about it on MoJo.

Jack, thank you for your comment on my I.Q. and my "support for torture".

Two claims that will need more evidence. As I said, get a grip.

Want a real discussion on race and sexism, date a Black feminist. Only problem was that I never could understand the attraction to a white guy. That was the deal breaker.

Powell walked out of the very meeting Wright promoted in Africa. Ford Jr. does not take Obama's position either. Jon Stewart had a good racial talk last night.

Diversion Jack, diversion from the issue of judgement, character, record and toughness. Spin it any way you want.

34 Flag Officers and the Out Of Iraq Caucus Support Hillary Clinton

"It is highly significant that both elected anti-war activists and 34 top flag officers support Hillary Clinton to be our next Commander in Chief:

From the Out of Iraq Caucus:
”As firm opponents of the Iraq war, we believe there is no higher priority for the next President of the United States than ending this war, and we believe there is no one better prepared and more committed to bringing this war to a responsible conclusion than Hillary Clinton. The best way to honor the sacrifices of our brave young men and women in uniform is to bring them home."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/19/an-open-letter-from-members-of-the-out-of-iraq-caucus/#more-1855

Clinton now says: "The road to a Democratic White House goes through Michigan and Florida."

I thought it went through Ohio Senator Clinton?

OD: doesn't it go through Arkansas?

I think it goes through every state in America - and Obama has shown he can win all over (and he has trounced Clinton in most places).

I know exactly what you mean, Jamie. These conversations have been going on for decades. In
fact, I suspect these young voters have not been
having them to the extent we did.

I heard Andrew Young make an interesting comment
this morning on NPR. He didn't elaborate, but he
suggested that Southerners have a different kind of
racial dialogue. He was not talking about the racist
Southerners, but those who lived and worked around
blacks and had good relations with them.

And I realized that during the years I lived in Denver, I
only knew a few blacks. One was a very wealthy couple,
grad students from Nigeria (their daughter Funmi was my son's first girlfriend) and the others were upscale black women in the feminist movement (Whitney Young's daughter for one). I lived in one neighborhood that was heavily hispanic because of Corky Gonzalez compound, but not in many black areas.

After I moved to Tennessee, I lived in mixed areas,
one almost completely black neighborhood....and
I also worked with an a black all-male crew on one job.

My kids went to schools that were fifty-fifty.

Conversations tended to be far more open than
I'd had in Denver. (Of course, the black feminists usually talked more about women's issues.)

At any rate, I had to think about what Andrew Young had said for a while, and it didn make some sense, at least in my own experience.

34 Flag Officers and the Out Of Iraq Caucus Support Hillary Clinton

"It is highly significant that both elected anti-war activists and 34 top flag officers support Hillary Clinton to be our next Commander in Chief:

From the Out of Iraq Caucus:
”As firm opponents of the Iraq war, we believe there is no higher priority for the next President of the United States than ending this war, and we believe there is no one better prepared and more committed to bringing this war to a responsible conclusion than Hillary Clinton. The best way to honor the sacrifices of our brave young men and women in uniform is to bring them home."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/19/an-open-letter-from-members-of-the-out-of-iraq-caucus/#more-1855

Jamie,

To answer your question from yesterday, I took down my page
"If you give a monkey a brain, he'll swear he's the center of the universe" because it was getting spammed way to much. To make matters worse, I wasn't even getting good porn spam. What is this world coming to.

BTW, please send me an email to gedpik@hotmail.com

I have something to share with you.

Hannah...... welcome back!....
hope you can stay for a while....

Blonde wino....
I saw the Moody Blues with a big orchestra behind them 7-8 yrs ago..... they were spectacular!

Wendy.... thanks for the Frank Luntz link....
no matter what anyone thinks of him..... he does know his stuff....

Craig.... I agree with those that say the McCain gaff will be lost and buried....
unfortunately..... it won't touch him....

tylenol..... I wish you and Mr. tylenol (and the rest of your family)..... the best...

harborW..... I've been thinking about your nephew and his friend......
particularly on this day..... I wish them well and a safe return....

Warren,

You give nebulous reasons but no proof. We've read the book. We've seen the campaign bio. We've all seen the newspaper article about how bills in the Illinois legislature had the original authors stripped so their super star could put his name on them for passage.

When did he arrange for water and heat? When did he help get a kid out of trouble. When did he go to bat for a woman's shelter ..... Not what he says he DID but what did he DO.

It is the fluff and flimflammery we are trying to get past. Half the reason that there are negatives about Sen Clinton is that she actually DOES things and some of the things she has done have made others unhappy.

Posting problems-test

Warren wrote: "You say this - and then you proceed to just do a hit job on Obama's record and tell us nothing about HRC."

Only because I have listed it here before...do you really want me to dig it all up...because I'll be happy to repost it...if you want.

And what I was referring to was the media - I don't have any questions about Hillary - they have been answered - I have questions about Obama.

posting - test

"I think if you read through my posts - you will find plenty of reasons why you should vote for Obama."

Warren - really - because I haven't seen that in your posts. You say he's inspiring, you say he's going to bring people together, you say he's for change, you say he's going to listen to you and other American's and perhaps these are reasons...what everyone here is saying what he says and his record DO NOT always match.

I gave examples of this in my earlier post. He hasn't given anyone a reason to vote for him nor have any of your posts every demonstrated a reason to vote for him. His actions, however, have left many with serious doubts about whether they should vote for him.

I like both Democratic candidates equally. I see flaws in both of them. I see greatness in both of them. One thing I love about HRC is her belief that she can out work any problem. Most of the time she can.

What I find attractive in Obama is his commitment to community. I am a community driven person. It is why I live in this old working class neighborhood. I am surrounded by neighbors. Neighbors that fuss, fight , talk , gossip and look out for each other.

I found this interesting article about Obama

"His identity -- as African-American, as Christian -- is chosen and it is chosen because it situated him within a community"

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=03&year=2008&base_name=the_communitarian

Jack

I'm sure Obama will introduce a bill between now and November attempting to change the general election into caucus' - that's his best hope of winning in 50 states - and it seems appropriate since he never does anything that doesn't benefit him personally and politically.

Bear,

Sent you an email. BTW you shouldn't post your email that way. The spiders that roam blogs and you end up having to deal with spam and viruses.

gedpik at hotmail dot com

Is better.

Oh - This is for everybody (I always forget). When you send someone an email put their address in "Blind CC" not in "To". They will get less unwanted email.

I also shared a personal story of an acquaintance whose sister lobbied Obama to sign on to stop the US from putting children to death - the reason she refuses to support him is because he would not have the discussion with her. You can point to a piece of legislation regarding the death penalty that someone slapped his name on...but when someone approached him personally and asked him for help in regards to the same issue - and IMHO a far more insidious aspect of the same issue - he wouldn't even talk to her.

This personal story does not in any way match up with Obama's speech yesterday.

Wendy:

No need to go dig any stuff up - it won't matter. I think Obama will be a better President - and will support him as long as he is running.

Jamie/Wendy:

You are not supposed to like Obama. He is beating the candidate you are supporting.

That would be like me thinking that the client I am opposing could somehow "like" the job I am doing when I am tearing his case to shreds.

I don't care if that client thinks I am the best lawyer he has ever seen and thinks I am a great guy - he will oppose and discount everything I do - because I am trying to defeat his case.

And I will say it again, Clinton and her supporters honestly believe she will be the best POTUS. Because the "ends" are so important - the "means" are often extreme.

So keep fighting - but just remember - the Republicans are the real enemy - and if McCain wins - we all lose.

Avery good piece by Spencer Ackerman, on what the US Army has learned about Al Queda in Iraq.

"According to interviews with detained members of al-Qaeda in Iraq, the most powerful recruitment tool for Islamic extremists is ... the war itself"

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=five_years_later

Jack

Jack,

It is an interesting article and makes valid points about the speech itself, but notice that again there is NOTHING about what Sen. Obama had done. The writer may know, but he doesn't say.

He joined the church for community for an identity. That's good. He did the same thing in Hawaii when he asked others to call him Barry and he took up basketball in order to feel more comfortable about his multi-racial identity.

All of this sheds light on him as a person but not as an activist.

Warren

Yet a common theme.

Warren...that's about the umpty-millionth time I have seen you urge a commenter here to "just read The Audacity of Hope" in answer to any question about Obama or what he might do as president. That recommendation is getting sort of worn out, honestly. (And that's coming from someone who has my own copy of the book on my coffee table)
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/03/obama-hopes-for-a-teaching-mom.html#comment-54379

Jack

I actually appreciate your even hand on the issues and you always have an interesting perspective. That's why I thought it a shame that you chose to take a personal shot at a couple of us a bit earlier. This last post of yours is the classic Jack I like to read. Thanks for the link - headed over to read it now.

Hannah,

Good To see you and want to see you more!!!! I am working in Palm beach and rarely get to post more than early morning or lat night.

But will be looking forward to your posts again. ;0)

Interesting comments on the Bear Sterns deal, including a new conspiracy theory

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezraklein_archive?month=03&year=2008&base_name=what_we_dont_know_can_hurt_us

Jack

Hannah!

Good to see you again!! I am working alot but come back when you can and if your on in the morning of evening, I may be there.

Looking forward to your posts. ;0)

Jamie:

I just finished that article as well and had the same response.

I'm going to keep googling - I'm sure there is something or someone out there who can speak to how Obama used his office to make a real difference in their lives (other than Rezko).

If anyone has any links...I'd appreciate it...and don't send me the link to the UofCh pal who wrote an op-ed outlining Obama's talking points - I've read that one.

Wright Speech “Ammo” for GOP

"Suspend your disbelief for a moment, and listen to former House speaker Newt Gingrich’s bull’s-eye analysis of Obama’s Philadelphia speech. Again, agree or not, you have to admit that Gingrich describes the problems — “fundamentally intellectually dishonest” and “Obama never once had the courage” to confront Rev. Wright — better than just about anyone else has:"

(Video at link)

"Bye, Bye Independents and Republicans for Obama: In “GOP sees Rev. Wright as pathway to victory...

In their view, the inflammatory sermons by Obama’s pastor offer the party a pathway to victory if Obama emerges as the Democratic nominee. Not only will the video clips enable some elements of the party to define him as unpatriotic, they will also serve as a powerful motivating force for the conservative base."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/19/wright-speech-ammo-for-gop/#more-1853

Ok.....so there is something weird going on again. I posted to Hannah and it seemed suck my post away and so I posted again and now see my old post......so when the other one turns up, so sorry..... ;0)

Things are tightening up in North Carolina...

"North Carolina Primary A Dead Heat, Hillary Stronger Than Obama In Ohio"

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03/ppp_north_carolina_primary_a_d.php

"To make matters worse, I wasn't even getting good porn spam. What is this world coming to."

ROFL, Bear! Keep hanging out in those Texas bars....you won't need any porn diversions!

Things are changing in NC by the day. Check these new pool numbers. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/RCP_PDF/PPP_NC_Release_031908.pdf

things are changing by the day in NC. Check out these latest pool numbers. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/RCP_PDF/PPP_NC_Release_031908.pdf

Warren,

I LIKE Senator Obama. He seems like a perfectly nice person. For that matter, I believe I would LIKE both Sentors Clinton and McCain. What you can't seem to understand is that we are talking about the most QUALIFIED person to become POTUS. Liking has nothing to do with it. Competence does.

I don't understand (Pogo moment) several here who have made such a big deal of this "cringing at grandmother" comment. And made more of than what he said.

Both my wife and I have childhood experiences of being ostracized from a grandparent for similar reasons. With her it was her Mom's mother and the opposite for me. Both because their children had married an Indian. Needless to say there were lasting effects on the entire family until their deaths. I could go on with many anecdotes to make my point.

Here's an example of making mountains out of molehills imo.

"I also thought BHO really dissed his grandmother in his speech and used her to show how "old white woman" are afraid of black men (code)."-BW

Does the fact that BO worse voter demo (60+ white women) support this or what?

Hadn't seen him much in recent years, but Ivan Dixon has passed away.

http://www.comcast.net/tv/articles/2008/03/19/Obit.Dixon/

Jamie, no worries, that is what the email is for.

"It was an important speech, but I will let the Democrats wrestle with their own issues and problems," Cheney said, according to a transcript released by the White House.--- ABC News
Whow!
Cuz Dick Cheney is really loyal!

"It was an important speech, but I will let the Democrats wrestle with their own issues and problems," Cheney said, according to a transcript released by the White House---- ABC News
Whow!
Cuz Dick Cheney is really , really loyal!

Rez,

I wasn't that stunned by the "grandmother" statement. It was all of a piece. My only objection is that his grandmother isn't a public person and her private opinions are only likely to embarras him if said among his friends. Personal associations can be difficult, but I was more disturbed by his saying he had "never heard" things that he then says he was aware of.

As for being disowned by relatives. My ex husband's mother no longer speaks to him since he married a lovely AA woman. Gotta tell you, give a choice of people to spend time with, he made a good decision to stick with the wife who is an absolutely darling rather than the mother whom I refer to as "The Wicked Witch of the West". :-)

Patsi,

As a sign that I am getting old, I don't like TX bars that much.

I don't drink so I can't do a drunk mind meld with the crowd.

I can't stand that you can still smoke in bars here.

Women want you to notice the breastiges but then get put off when you look at them so if there isn't good music, I'm content to do my own version of King of the Hill, except with Diet Dr. Pepper as my drink of choice.

Pa numbers are increasing. http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Penn_Release_031708.pdf

Wendy / Jamie:

If being President was ONLY about who is the most "qualified" - why do we even have elections?

(In fact, this seems to be Clinton's most recent strategy - forget the votes - I am better!).

Moreover, "qualified" is an subjective term. You two appreciate Hillary's experience in Washington - I appreciate Obama's experience living all over the world, working on the streets of Chicago and teaching constitutional law.

Also, "likability" does matter. I know I know - after George W. Bush - everyone is trying to eliminate the "who would you rather have a beer with" question.

I know what a disaster Bush has been - and I agree we should do away with him and his policies. But that does not mean we will also do away with one of the most time-honored traditions of picking an American President.

To me, Hillary seems fake, contrived, harsh, too tied to a script (and detached from reality) - and lastly - even I did want to have a beer with her - I suspect she would say she is too busy.

Wendy
Not for sure which "us" your talking about.
Going back and reviewing my comments
I found only made 2 comments attacking any one in here.

The first was this
"Then we have the Hillary supporters who are joining in like fools, just happy to have something new to attack Obama with, no matter where it comes from."

If you,general, are one of these(You,Wendy, are not IMO or at least not very much) then please stop it, we don't need to be helping the Republican right wing attack .machine.

My other attack was on Max.
Max and I had a little discussion on torture, late one night , when he first came in here.
I'm an absolutist on torture.
Now some people will walk around the edge of torture, but not Max that night he jumped in the protorture camp with both feet,
So I have no respect for Max. Most days I have no interaction with Max and want none. If he does make a comment toward me I will usually ignore or as yesterday make a joke of it. Today, I wasn't in a joking mood with Max.
I take back nothing I said to him.

You and Max are not in an "us" group IMO. You are a good human being.

Jack

Jamie,

I don't have a problem bringing up family history moments, if it helps to make my point and others understand better, and as long as it's not a surprise to the parties. Also I \wasn't counting you in the "some here" category, sorry.

btw, I think he explicitly differentiated controversial comments from incendiary remarks.

From Patsi:

“Unfortunately, I don't think this particular McCain gaffe has legs. Too many people just dump all Middle Easterners into the same bag, potential enemies. But I do think McCain is going to make more and more mistakes -- he already seems confused during his speeches. I really worry that senility is setting in. If so, it'll depend on whether his buddies in the press will actually question it.”

You are naïve here. And, the bickering in the Democratic Party only gives McCain more legs than any could believe, especially with the Neonuts out there waiting and watching. One such Neonut is Rod Parsley, the mega rich televangelist who was instrumental in helping get GWB elected in Ohio with the assist from then Secretary of State, Kenneth Blackwell. Blackwell took bus loads to the mega churches here. I’d post that link but would be exceeding the bad three links.

“Televangelist Rod Parsley, a key McCain ally in Ohio, has called for eradicating the "false religion." Will the GOP presidential candidate renounce him?”

The false religion to Parsley is anyone in the Middle East which includes Iran. When McCain laughingly said bomb, bomb Iran, he was not joking. He intends to carry out the Bush/Cheney agenda and the Clintons will ensure that will happen when they steal the super delegates and disenfranchise those new voters and Republicans who have come onboard to vote for Obama. Many will just not turn out in the general to vote for the manipulators.

http://www.motherjones.com/washington_dispatch/2008/03/john-mccain-rod-parsley-spiritual-guide.html

http://www.pfo.org/parsley.htm

From Patsi:

“Unfortunately, I don't think this particular McCain gaffe has legs. Too many people just dump all Middle Easterners into the same bag, potential enemies. But I do think McCain is going to make more and more mistakes -- he already seems confused during his speeches. I really worry that senility is setting in. If so, it'll depend on whether his buddies in the press will actually question it.”

You are naïve here. And, the bickering in the Democratic Party only gives McCain more legs than any could believe, especially with the Neonuts out there waiting and watching. One such Neonut is Rod Parsley, the mega rich televangelist who was instrumental in helping get GWB elected in Ohio with the assist from then Secretary of State, Kenneth Blackwell. Blackwell took bus loads to the mega churches here. I’d post that link but would be exceeding the bad three links.

“Televangelist Rod Parsley, a key McCain ally in Ohio, has called for eradicating the "false religion." Will the GOP presidential candidate renounce him?”

The false religion to Parsley is anyone in the Middle East which includes Iran. When McCain laughingly said bomb, bomb Iran, he was not joking. He intends to carry out the Bush/Cheney agenda and the Clintons will ensure that will happen when they steal the super delegates and disenfranchise those new voters and Republicans who have come onboard to vote for Obama. Many will just not turn out in the general to vote for the manipulators.

http://www.motherjones.com/washington_dispatch/2008/03/john-mccain-rod-parsley-spiritual-guide.html

http://www.pfo.org/parsley.htm

Are we going through a censoring process here in light of the blog wars (dailyKos)? i.e. slower posting.

Jack...

That's what I was talking about the not being proud to be an American. Not now. Not under the way our country has become.

I'm not proud to be an American as our country currently exists. This is not the America I was born in.

All those who believe that its okay to torture others, spy on our own citizens, kidnap people and send them to foreign countries to be tortured, arrest and detain indefinitely with no right to a lawyer or a court hearing are not Americans.

This is not what America was founded on and if this America makes you proud to be an American your not as patriotic or American as you think you are.

Go ahead everyone and flame away.

Warren,

"working on the streets of Chicago " This is the area that we keep asking about. There just doesn't seem to be anything other than a title and stories from him not from others.

I have seen one report from a teaching colleague about his knowledge of Consitutional Law. This is good. It would be nice to see some testimony from his students on possible activities as an instructor and/or mentor.

"why do we even have elections?" To get a consensus of opinion as to who is the most qualified. Sometimes the electorate messes up as they did with King George, but that is the purpose of the election.

I don't for a second doubt his intelligence, but it really seems as if all he has ever done with his life is to go for the next promotion. Now he is going for the ultimate promotion. It is perfectly fair to say, "And what will you do if we give you the job?"

Wendy
Jamie
A not exactly friendly piece from th Boston Globe.
on Obama in the Ill. legislature.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/09/23/in_illinois_obama_dealt_with_lobbyists/

Jack

"All those who believe that its okay to torture others, spy on our own citizens, kidnap people and send them to foreign countries to be tortured, arrest and detain indefinitely with no right to a lawyer or a court hearing are not Americans."

Anon, ageed.
But I don't think they will let us deport them. ;-0

Jack

Oh Lord....Chris Obamaatthews just mentioned "the thrill going up my leg", while talking about BHO, to Ellen.

Poor Ellen..."CO" totally manhandled her, during their dance...ROTFLMAO!!!

NEW THREAD

Jack - perhaps I misinterpreted - I didn't see it as an attack...I saw it as a swipe - where you said mine and KGC comments were not important or something like that...not sure.

Anyway - I could have read it wrong and the rest of my analysis remains the same - I like your comments and your even hand - fair and balanced (not meant to be a Fox news swipe--you really ARE Fair and Balanced) ROFL.

Annon-P,

Most here agree that USA isn't all that it could be, probably never has been for everyone. The good old days you remember, probably give other people chills, the McCarthy era was bad for many. J. Edger Hoover spied on everyone and probably blackmailed alot of them. The Civil War killed how many Americans? We can go pretty far back and find all kinds of bad stuff. So I not willing to just throw up my hands and give up, and neither are most Americans.

My advise is to stay away from Sociology text books, they will really depress you.

"- I appreciate Obama's experience living all over the world"

didn't someone debunk this already . . . I seem to remember someone here taking this on...

anyone anyone

Jack that article you posted was very interesting

I think it does show some very good qualities for Obama - the negotiation aspect - compromise.

I'm suspicious of the Bills he "sponsored" given the information that came to light about his name being slapped on legislation that others had done all the work on...

but that said...this does show that even after his name was on it - he did some work to pass it - even if it was "watering it down" - didn't he also water down some legislation to benefit Exelon?

It still brings up issues of his credibility - taking this hardline on lobbyists and special interests - criticizing Hillary - but yet watering down several bills so that their "concerns" were taken into consideration - and then taking their money.

So while the article points out that he's a good negotiator and willing to listen to all sides...the question still remains...when all the negotiations are over...whose side is he going to come down on? I don't know.

Jamie, your curiosity about Mr Obama's professorial relationships with his students raised my interest. I just did a quick Google. Here's the only result:
http://www.thirdcoastpress.com/images/tcp_3mar04.pdf

It was glowing.

Here's the Google I used:
Obama mentoring "university of chicago" "was my professor" students -wright -michelle

So I Googled the report's author. I smells a rat. Try:
Dan Johnson-Weinberger

Jamie, your curiosity about Mr Obama's professorial relationships with his students raised my interest. I just did a quick Google. Here's the only result:
http://www.thirdcoastpress.com/images/tcp_3mar04.pdf

It was glowing.

Here's the Google I used:
Obama mentoring "university of chicago" "was my professor" students -wright -michelle

So I Googled the report's author. I smells a rat. Try:
Dan Johnson-Weinberger

Great story!