Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Hey Craig,

My Oakland Raiders beat the Arizona Cardinals during a preseason game. I think it should count for our overall record because it was a sell out and we chose to play our starters during the whole game and won. Arizona is protesting that they only played players who they wanted to test out during the game, but if they'd have known the game was going to count, they would have played their starters. But I say, to heck with them. We won and thousands saw us win, so why should we take away the satisfaction of winning from those fans? They might not come back to a Raiders game if we do.

Yeah Like I stayed in LA when it didn't suit my purpose
Florida should do what I do....sue

Umm, thank you MoJo & Tucker for supporting Hil'ry???

I think Dr. Dean should get his head out of his rear end and count the FL votes. I, too, live in Orlando and saw a lot of campaigning from both sides (HRC&BHO) before the vote. But I guess the dear doctor wants the GOP of FL to run the democratic party of FL too. Dean is a joke.

Well.....again and again and again.

Let Florida seat and do Michigan over.....you don't here Michiganers saying seat us, do you?

I'm from Michigan and I say anything to get a fair vote here. But you Florida people deserve to record your votes.

mornin' all.

Craig, you are sooooo in the tank for Clinton. lololol. :-{)

I guess I missed something over the weekend - has someone decided to step up to the plate and PAY FOR a Florida do-over (not to be confused with a Donald Trump hair style)? Last I heard, Criss said the DNC should pay and the DNC said no way, you want it, you pay for it..

alpha, I checked my 2008 NFL schedule and the game wasn't on it.

blue, that's it - Hillary's finished. SHe'snow gotten two official kisses of death. I just hope Tucker didn't leave his tongue in her ear.

Indeed, Howard Dean has been AWFUL. It freaks me to think I flrted with the idea he might be a good president. Thankfully, it was only for about fifteen minutes, and well before Kerry got the nomination.

That aside, Craig -- a question for you or someone in the know. I've been getting some emails asking me to help destroy the DLC because it is a "Clinton" bunch....what's the difference between these two outfits and how does it all play out?

It's bumming me out because I like Harold Ford a lot, and it seems like somebody is coming after him.

I may be one of the few fans Dean has left. He had little choice but to impose sanctions for rule-breaking, otherwise utter chaos would ensue. We are called united states for a reason.... His point has been made and the current fiasco needs correction. Dean is supportive of corrective action. Perhaps the Florida voters need to place the blame where it lies, with their own State administration who believed they were above the rules.

Craig,

Thanks for sharing your outrage! I'm not going to add anything to what you said because your eloquence speaks for itself.

Thanks, again!

"Howard Dean out of the sorry mess he created by shunning the nation's biggest swing state to give tiny Nevada and South Carolina early spots on the voting calendar."C.C.

"because the Republican governor and GOP-controlled Florida Legislature enacted a state law that leapfrogged the DNC calendar." - C.C.

I've heard several reason for this fiasco, BUT none where the FL democrats take responsibility. I guess you guys down there enjoy being the victim NO wonder Hillary does good there. Old Home week!

Colleen,

I'm with you....I really respect someone who builds a sucessful organization that is bringing in new candidates and winning elections.

I respect anyone who follows and enforces that rules even against huge outrage....when did this country become so disrespectful of the rules that they can't see the consequences and flog the appropriate people.

Dean has done a supurb job in the midst of a whole lot of childish fits. I am beyond impressed.

Debra Dickerson was a telephone guest on Imus this morning. What a marvelous woman!

She spoke with tremendous clarity on race and how we don't handle it.

I think Imus is rebroadcast on RFD-TV in the evening. Try to catch it if you can. It was something like an an hour twenty into the broadcast.

Sheila,

I, for one, hate the Law of Rules.

The overarching goal has to be letting people have their votes count--the people who had absolutely nothing to do with the Rules or their states' flouting of Them.

Dr Dean has done an extremely good job of trying to (re)organize this can of worms.

"Jamie, I'm African American. I don't need a "daddy" government telling me where I should use my reparations. I can make that choice myself. Perhaps I want to secure my grandmother or my mother's retirement? Both suffered under segregation in Texas. Maybe I want to use my reparations to pay for private school for my son? Maybe I want to invest it so that my wealth increases to at least half of what whites have in this country.

Alpha, I think we may be talking past each other while saying the same thing in different words. Some huge "welfare" program is the last thing that I want. Too often that has meant lots of nice white middle class jobs with no change or even worsening of conditions. It's a failed system. My thinking was more in line with changing situations as they exist. You know there is a shortage of facilities and services that the suburbs take for granted.

Direct reparations might assist you and your family. You are equipped to make the best possible use of them on your own without government interference. A drug addicted gang member would not. What about their "reparation". Would it keep a child from being shot on the way to the third grade? Maybe his family could use the reparation to buy a coffin.

How about giving you the money to start your own business as long as it was in the area where the services were most needed? It would benefit the community and you could pay for your grandmother and son on your own by making it a success.

When the walls of segregation fell, those with education and talent made use of them. The Yuppies and Buppies have merged and are doing as well as any other group of middle class people today. There are still remaining slings and arrows of intermittant prejudice, but only time and the dying off of generations will completely cure that.

Unfortunately, it left the inner cities without services and mentors. How do we change those conditions? What would be the best way to help people help themselves to a better life. You attended Loyola. Would a major boys and girls live in academy to get children out of hazardous and criminal influences be a place to start? What would you do?

Sean Hannity has been pounding the connection of Barack Obama to William Ayers

"The Weather Underground. His association with this guy William Ayers, a guy that bombed police headquarters in New York, declared war on the United States, admits to being involved in the bombing of our own Pentagon. And Barack Obama’s spokesperson this week said that they have a friendly relationship."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/10/hannity-like-a-dog-with-a-bone/#more-1757

Flatus,

I agree. It takes years to sucessfully reorganize a party. Because of course, don't fix it if you can't see the hairline faults and fractures.

Well, we are certainly seeing it now. But its too late to change the rules.

However, if Dean stays, you can bet changes will be made.

OK, I googled and see that this must be all about the DLC's centrist approach....seems like they'd be tailor made for Barack.

Rezdog

"BUT none where the FL democrats take responsibility."

Craig specifically said that the state Democrats went along with the GOP rules and voted for them (over which they had no power because of a GOP majority) in order to get a paper ballot in the bill.

Anyone who remembers hanging chads and supreme court decisions can't blame them for doing what they had to do to get a fairer system in the long run.

Jamie wrote, "Unfortunately, it left the inner cities without services and mentors. How do we change those conditions? What would be the best way to help people help themselves to a better life. You attended Loyola. Would a major boys and girls live in academy to get children out of hazardous and criminal influences be a place to start? What would you do?"

Well said. I sense tremendous disapproval and anger and resentment with few answers.

In the spirit of Sargent Shriver, I need to reteach a lot of community and family values starting with the parents of the youngest and flowing up.

I really have thought a lot about this. I think the Peace Corps should be used in this country. I understand the romance of helping another country.

I don't understand the distaste of giving our poor a leg up with the same spirit that we give other countries.

I mean not only did we out give for the Tsunami, but our country as a whole has not been outraged enough by Katrina's aftermath. We just sit and click our tongues and the country doesn't do anything but turn their backs.

Reinstituting a movement to reteach our poor would be a great start.

Donna Brazille yesterday said that the same rule that excluded MI and FL has a rule within it that allows FL and MI to come up with solutions to get their votes to count (re-vote would be within this). I believe Donna Brazille would know since she's supposedly on the committee that sanctioned FL and MI and one of the power brokers on that committee from what I hear.

Pogo - Carville and others went on all the talk shows yesterday and he said he has donors lined up to help pay for it...want Obama's camp to pitch in - said the Clinton camp is ready to go.

I e-mailed the DNC and told them while I couldn't give much...I'd happily donate to the cause and that they should just get a Web site up and start taking small donations over the Internet.

Between the 2 campaigns, even the campaigns that are now defunct but what to do "what's good for the party", and the DNC...I'm sure they can come up with enough money to do a re-vote via mail in both states.

I know many of the Obama supporters want to follow the rules. If the rules allow for FL and MI to come up with solutions and have their votes count...I guess they're still following the rules and O's side has nothing to complain about.

BTW - here is the transcript of Carville talking about this - he was going up against David Wilhelm. As you can see from this...Obama really needs to stop sending Wilhelm out as a spokesman...he's horrible. (if anyone can find the video of this...I'd love to see it...can't find it)

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/3/8/13403/55574

:-D

Jamie,
when Debbie W-S was being questioned by Hume yesterday, on that very issue..She was not having any thing to do in terms of blame.. chooing to pass it on to the FL leg just as CC does.

Wendy said,

know many of the Obama supporters want to follow the rules. If the rules allow for FL and MI to come up with solutions and have their votes count...I guess they're still following the rules and O's side has nothing to complain about

You have a great point, if it was a point of contention, but it is not.

Obama has been heard to say many times that he will obey and follow the rules of the party. He has and even this last weekend he said, whatever they come up with is just fine with his campaign.

So, lets go foward. ;0)

Jamie,
Excuse, moi
blame = responsibility in my book

Sheila and everyone:

What's interesting is that there are all these NGOs out there but they all seem to be doing work in other countries rather than here. Has anyone heard of any major NGOs that do work right here in the U.S. to help communities with resources and provide opportunities? I haven't. There is an NGO that is focused on giving small business loans to Women in Africa...I think this is a terrific program and it is very successful...why don't we have something like that here?

Before we change the future of poverty in American, we have to change our disgust of it as a country and promote the return of the "Great Society" ideals.

Isn't Shriver still with us?

Sheila -- I know some entertainers who gave thousands of dollars for tsunami victims, and not ONE cent to New Orleans -- the greatest live music center in America. (Not that it should have been the reason they gave, but you'd think they'd be sensitive to their fellow musicians. On the other hand, many Nashvillians in the industry opened their homes to musicians who were displaced.)

But the bottm line is, the city and the Coast still sits in shambles.

It amazes me just how far Craig Crawford will go to deflect any and all responsibility for this complete and total cluster**** away from Florida and on to just about everyone else. The calendar was set already..Florida didn't pull the "we are so much more important than everyone else because we need to prove that we can actually have an election without screwing it up" until after the fact...the FLORIDA legislature proposed the change and had unanimous approval by the democrats in Florida knowing FULL WELL what the penalty would be.

I honestly think its disgusting that this country thinks in terms of, "If you want money get a job".

Now, what I see in hindsight is a a loss of family structure within the center of poverty in American.

As soon as this country identifies how to address it, a very simple address, then we will be a real super power.

As long as we can't adress family values and community values and how to help our poor "Leg Up" we will really never be better. This is a huge part of our fracture as a country.

Another side of the Katrina hypocrisy involves the so-called Support our Troops mentality, which usually means lip service. I support the National Veterans Foundation, founded by Vietnam vet "Shad" Meshad and an outreach for vets in crisis, especally mental health issues. I printed up a bunch of donation fliers and started putting them under the windshields of cars with China-made yellow ribbons, or Freedom Ain't Free, or America Love it or Leave It stickers. I asked Shad if anyone every sent one of them in....nope.

Hi Debra - Welcome!

Jamie,

I know the FL leg is the most culpable in this instance and the FDP had little choice but to seek an exception or hold a latter caucus.

Not that you're the expert, but how is it they can now hold a valid mail-in vote or a complete redo in the coming months and couldn't choose that option back in August when they voted to go against DNC and pursue the January 29th primary.

I hate having to deal with FL again.

Sheila:

You bring up good points about family structure and community values.

I'm wondering what you think might be the path to this?

Certainly I can see NGOs or government programs perhaps playing a role in strengthening the community.

Currently a mail in ballot in illegal in Florida.

"But obstacles remain. McLaughlin notes what he calls "tiny" provisions in Florida law that prohibit a mail-in election to determine a nominee. Timing is also an unresolved question--precisely how long it would take to mail out ballots and allow a sufficient amount of time for them to be returned. Even then, election supervisors who are currently hip-deep in the process of changing over to optical-scanning machines for the general election may be resistant to processing an entirely new primary election by mail
http://www.newsweek.com/id/119901

Rezdog

FL didn't want to talk about it because they don't want to pay for it...Crist has stood by that and made that clear.

I also believe everyone hoped it would be clearer by now...but it's not...still to close to call and superDs are going to need to know what the real "will of the people" is as they make their decision about a candidate to put forward.

The chatter about a re-vote has been going on for awhile but is just now getting some traction because FL and MI may go a long way in being the tie breaker.

As I said earlier...it's within the rules for this to happen...so...let them re-vote.

"RezkoWatch has written a number of articles about Aiham Alsammarae, indicted political fixer Antoin "Tony" Rezko's former classmate in the late 1970s at the Illinois Institute of Technology and former business partner.

Writing in the March 17, 2008, issue of Newsweek, Mark Hosenball and Michael Isikoff reported that Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.)'s campaign "released e-mails" from October 2006 between his U.S. Senate office and U.S. officials "on behalf" of Alsammarae, who was still "imprisoned in Iraq." Although "the Obama camp initially declined to release the e-mails", during the first week of March 2008 they did."

http://rezkowatch.blogspot.com/

Obama will have to allow Florida to revote or count the existing vote. If he is the nominee and he refuses Florida then he concedes the state AND the election to the GOP.

Thanks Craig for telling the history of the Florida mess, very few pundits will, and none from the Obama camp.

Wendy Thanks,

This is why I brought up Peace Corps. The youth of out country on the edge of getting involved in their future again.

remember the excitment Sargent Shriver instilled in peace corps. the nobility of serving your country for world good.

FDR did the same thing with his programs to improve our country's infrastracture while getting the country back to work.

We are at a fork in the road. We can put people to work helping ourselves.

We have all the knowlege and frankly, our middle class could use a boost too. they are decending into caos as well. With the evidence as all the school shootings by the young.

Put these people to work under that same programs of Sargent Shriver, updated for their generation.

http://www.americorps.gov/about/programs/vista.asp

Americorp is the decendent of VISTA volunteers which was the domestic peace corp.

They take volunteers of any age.

Like I said,

Everything is in place, but the people of America. The digust and fear for helping the poor in our own country is still there.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/08/AR2008030802724.html?hpid=topnews

Doug Feith blames everybody but himself for Iraq.....

http://www.philanthropy.com/free/update/2003/05/2003052301.htm

plenty of people want to participate in Americorp
Shrub cut the funding. I guess he thinks 100 points of light are enough

Wendy,
i know a little of the story here. When I first started posting in late Dec/Jan this was a big topic around here. And as you correctly stated, everyone (mainly HillCo) never envisioned having to go pass Super Tuesday. So we'all just kicked the can further down the road.

I'm with Warren, it's such a waste of money!
I'm also for seated them now (in June) at a proportion(%) that is dispositive on the final results. Same with MI. I don't think FL-MI deserves any special attention.
Here's my point:
How is it they can now hold a valid mail-in vote or a complete redo in the coming months, i.e.June, and couldn't choose that option back in August 07 when they voted to go against DNC and pursue the January 29th primary.

Speaking of shootings....

John Denver Sparks Killing Spree

A gunman in Thailand shot-dead eight neighbors, including his brother-in-law, after tiring of their karaoke versions of popular songs, including John Denver's Country Roads. Weenus Chumkamnerd, 52, put his gun to the head of a respected female doctor and seven of her guests as they partied at her home in Songkhla Province, South Thailand.

"When I began shooting nobody pleaded for his life because they were all drunk," he said after his arrest.

He said he was so furious with their awful singing that he did not notice he had murdered his own brother-in-law.

"I warned these people about their noisy karaoke parties. I said if they carried on I would go down and shoot them. I had told them if I couldn't talk sense into them I would come back and finish them off," he added.

Wendy!

Damn, I missed Carville? I gotta start watching Sun.a.m. tv. Sounds like Carville was having a blast.

Sheila, we disagree about Howie, but I do agree with you about this - "lets go foward." Note to the Obama campaign - the rules are clear - talk with the Clinton campaign and the FL & MI dem officials and let's go forward. Note to the Clinton campaign - the rules are clear - talk with the Obama campaign and the FL & MI dem officials and let's go forward. Both of you stop worrying about what happened in Jan. and focus on getting voting done in those states - you're gonna need them in Nov.

And as for N.O & the Gulf coast - the problem with the Gov. aid that went there is that to a large extent it went for infrastructure repair and improvement, which was needed, but which helps the displaced almost not at all. NGO aid generally goes to the people who need it rather than to the states that need money for clean up and improvements. Say what you will about Mexico, but 6 months after Wilma almost blew Cancun off the map, you would have found it difficult to find a pile of debris there. The situation there is certainly different than on the Gulf coast, but so was the mindset to clean up and get people back to their homes and jobs. It was an impressive government-private joint effort,and unlike here, it worked - and in the meantime they had an election and change in government that did not derail that effort.

Wendy, correction:
" a proportion(%) that is not dispositive on the final results." =
no bearing.

"Obamalot!" The Gridiron Club take on Obama

WASHINGTON—“C’est Moi! Barack,” so went a ribbing of White House hopeful Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) at the 123rd annual dinner of The Gridiron Club on Saturday night where he was gently mocked to a tune from “Camelot.” “I know—may I say—how well I think of me. As so, J.F.K. I shall be!’’

The Gridiron lyrics…..

Obama-lot!
(to the tune of “C’est Moi,” from “Camelot,” Music by Frederick Lowe, Lyrics by Alan Jay Lerner)
Obama, dressed like a knight in shiny armor

O-bama-lot! O-bama-lot!
As just a lad I heard the call.
O-bama-lot! O-bama-lot!
And aren’t you glad I’ll give my all?

I know—may I say—how well I think of me
As so, J.F.K. I shall be!

more lyrics:

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/03/sweet_obamalot_the_gridiron_cl.html#more

Sheila - to your 9:39 post - Yes - agree on all accounts.

"RezkoWatch has written a number of articles about Aiham Alsammarae, indicted political fixer Antoin "Tony" Rezko's former classmate in the late 1970s"

Gordo, The more you go on in this fashion, the more it sounds exactly like what was done to the Clintons in the 90s ... one of those long lists or malfeasance, missing, and murdered sole based on vaporous nonsense like so and so may have known so and so while stopping by a company to meet a friend for lunch.

Association is not guilt. If an when some actual illegal act or knowledge of a criminal act on the part of Senator Obama or at the minimum enough proof to substantiate the need for an investigation, it is pure propaganda foolishness and shouldn't be considered by anyone as a reason to oppose him.

I can come up with my own reasons without relying on could be, might have been, and supposition.

Interesting how it's Obama supporters that think it's a waist of money.

I'd like to know what the voters of FL think?

Also...it's not a Democratic principle to disenfranchise voters. I assure you...if Hillary were ahead in pledged delegate count...the same Obama supporters that say it's a waist of money would be saying voters were being disenfranchised.

I don't believe in disenfranchising voters...no matter who it benefits. I eagerly signed the petition to make sure ALL of the "uncommitted" ballots in CA were counted after the primary...I did that knowing that if Obama picked up a good chunk of those it could change the results in CA...I didn't care...because make sure everyone has a say is more important.

Good morning.

This will be my only comment today from work. I still say let the FL delegates be seated by the vote already taken. That is fair to both candidates and will not give one side or the other a unfair advantage.

I am firmly against a mail in do over since there is too much opportunity for fraud.

Since the FL DNC is behind Hillary how do we now that ballots by Obama supporters won' t disappear in the mail or that they will be all counted. I don't trust the officials of either party to do the right thing and mail in ballots at this time late in the game offers to much of a chance to be tainted.

As far as MI let them do a new Primary and let the State pay for it. The Governor was the one to flaunt the rules and therefore the she should be held accountable for her actions.

I'm still having a problem with my computer and will probably have to wipe my drive clean and redo it again.

Anyway have a nice day and ...

God Bless.

Katie,

No Offense intended by my bluntness, please;

Just because you can google Vista and say Bush cut funds, doesn't excuse any of us from getting involved.

I can say that I am cooking in soup kitchens when I am off. But all I am taking part in is the bandaide process.

Why am I not taking part in the badly needed job programs. Teaching people to cook?

We need another JFK Ask Not excitement for our country. We need ....lol....Oprah Shriver. ;0)

more importantly, we need people like me and you.

Clinton is living up to the complaint that Democrats spend too much money. Does this reflect her attitude regarding her White House policies? She sure likes to throw other peoples money around.

Why not do the least costly, easiest and fairest solution? Seat the elected delegates at the convention and split their vote 50-50 between Clinton and Obama. By allowing the ELECTED delegates to be seated the FL-MI voters will be represented.

Howard Dean can punish the selected MI-FL Superdelegates, by not allowing them to vote at the convention. The Superdelegates convention vote is not a protected vote. They should have already voted in their home state anyway.

This way, nobody loses their Constitutional right to vote.

A do-over will not settle the matter anyway, the vote will be as close as it has been in the other 45 states. The only people a do-over helps is the folks who will make big bucks writing about it for the next several weeks.

I am so ready for this Democratic campaign to BE OVER!

MOVE ON for gosh sake.

AP wrote: "I am firmly against a mail in do over since there is too much opportunity for fraud."

Oregon went to a mail in system for general and there were many concerns initially about fraud which in the end were unfounded...

Gordo,

The way his audiences behave, the original lyrics might apply as well

I've never strayed
From all I believe;
I'm blessed with an iron will.
Had I been made
The partner of Eve,
We'd be in Eden still.

C'est moi! C'est moi! The angels have chose
To fight their battles below,
And here I stand, as pure as a pray'r,
Incredibly clean, with virtue to spare,
The godliest man I know!
C'est moi!

Lawsuit Eyed by Sharpton Over Florida
Seen as Maneuvering To Aid Obama's Campaign

By GRACE RAUH
Staff Reporter of the Sun
March 10, 2008

Stephen Chernin/Getty

The Reverend Al Sharpton with Senator Obama at the National Action Network Convention at New York City in April 2007.
http://www.nysun.com/article/72572

ALaying the groundwork for a court battle that could divide the Democratic Party, the Reverend Al Sharpton is threatening to sue the Democratic National Committee if it counts Florida's primary results in the official presidential delegates tally.

http://www.nysun.com/article/72572

I volunteer in my community.
Just pointing out that there is a program in place
and people do want to participate but Bush has cut the anti poverty funds. It also affects volunteers to habitat for humanity etc who get a lot of their volunteers through Americorp.

Things do not happen in a vacuum.

JB Feucht wrote:"Clinton is living up to the complaint that Democrats spend too much money."

Clinton? Obama outspent her almost 3-1 in OH and TX...who spends too much money?

:-D

Rez- the FL dem party probably could have decided to hold it'sprimary after the date that the FL legislature established, but it would likely not have been done at the expense of the state. Instead, they applied for a waver of party rules, which was denied. They were caught on the horns of a dilemma - vote for the changed primary date and negotiate and include improvements to a horribly flawed electoral system (which democrats creamed for in '00 and '04 after those abuses were evident in the presidential elections), but lose some of the credibility you might otherwise have with the DNC when you seek a waiver, or vote against the measure and lose your chance to include the election reform measures you know are needed into the bill (which was the only realistic chance they had to get those reform measures passed) but gain cred in your appeal to the DNC for a waiver. They chose to take option 1 and improve the electoral system but ran the risk of losing in their appeal to the DNC for a waiver. That is called taking responsibility - not for their intraparty concerns, but rather for the concerns of the people of FL. Their appeal for a waiver of the DNC rules was denied in Nov. I'd argue that the DNC felt its rules benefitting 4 small states were more important than, and trumped, the state law passed in FL moving the primary.

"Damn, I missed Carville? I gotta start watching Sun.a.m. tv. Sounds like Carville was having a blast."

Pogo,
I'm a fan of the Ragin Cagin, but lately he seems to pick and choose when he wants to get involved and that's normally when it benefits his position best. I guess we all do that , just he has higher profile. i wish he'd gotten involve earlier on this issue. What, we have to go past Super Tuesday!

JB wrote: "This way, nobody loses their Constitutional right to vote."

Ummm actually...they do...because if you split the delegates evenly then certain votes don't actually count...and worse yet...like in the 2000 election...looks like some of those votes will get switched to the person they did not want to vote for.

50/50 is completely undemocratic

"Since the FL DNC is behind Hillary how do we now that ballots by Obama supporters won' t disappear in the mail or that they will be all counted."

I'm pretty sure the FL DNC were all hiding on the grassy knoll, anon....those zany Florida Democrats...

I do wish the Obama surrogates would stop saying he doesn't need her supporters. Cokie Roberts made a mention of this attitude yesterday on this week. More and more she was hearing white women of a certain age (you know that major voting bloc in any Democratic election) saying that they have never felt so totally disrespected by a political candidate in their lives and that the dislike was deepening to become almost aversion.

At the beginning of this run, my preference was Richardson or Biden. When they left I switched to Hillary but was willing to consider Obama or Edwards. Once Edwards left, I was still willing to listen to Obama "just in case". Courtesy of his surrogates, I am getting darn close to active resistance. I won't vote Republican, but a non vote by enough of this group could hand them the election.

Senator Obama has brought in a lot of the youngsters. If they don't vote, it won't change the totals. Count out Hispanics (yoo hoo McCaskel?) and white women and it won't matter if he is the nominee.

Somebody on that side of the fence better start making nice pretty darn fast or he could well become another chapter in the book, "They Also Ran".

Another five dead Americans in Baghdad.

Well I read the comments above and I just want to remind everyone about Rules.

If you all think that rules don't matter and people shouldn't be made to follow them or be held accountable than maybe we should just leave Der Fuhrer Adolph Bush in power.

After all he has broken every Rule Of Law there is and has destroyed the Constitution, Military and OUR Economy.

And the whole time the Democratic Party did nothing to attempt to stop him. And don't use that same line we hear from Reid and Pelosi about not having the votes.

They had the votes to block many of the garbage laws that were passed and didn't. Senator Nelson of FL was just as guilty as he voted for the MCA of 2006 before the 2006 elections when no President Republican or Democrat should have that kind of power.

Seat Florida and have a new Primary in Michigan and let Michigan pay for it.

Or throw out all the Rules including the Rule of Law which it is now clear that there is no equal justice under the law and no one will ever be held accountable for anything. That is except for us common folk.

I'm outta here now. Take care and ...

God Bless.

Wendy,

You can really answer all those Rezko-related questions? If you check the CQ report, they ask questions. Funny how they don't even have some of the answers that are already known. Where did Rezko gethis money for Obama's house deal? Well, we know that, don't we? THe article also asks other valid questions. I think you are wrong in your comparison. Quid pro quo would be to try and help Rezko's friend who is wanted for stealing more than $650 million in Iraq. Now there are many questions that are important and they certainly will not go away. They actually increase over time.

Gord, you never answered the question: Are you a 9/11 truther?

Pogo,

Thx for the excellent explanation! I know Crist isn't wanting to pay for sh*t and he's been talking out both side his mouth. I did not realize that if FL went after 1/29, they'd have to pay for it themselves. No one mentions that very often and i never saw it in the articles i found on the net even FL dem site. Oh well, makes sense. I guess the get their way. someone else ends up paying the costs. i hope we resolve this before 2012. They better cut that out! :)

I could be wrong, but I'd have to guess that JB Feutch is an Obama supporter.

wendy...

I'm trying to stay out of this since I'm at work and shouldn't even be here.

Oregon's mail in vote is different from what is occurring now. The vote has already been taken in FL and MI and to do a do over after the people have already voted leaves to much chance for fraud.

If they had done a mail in ballot to start with than we wouldn't be in the situation were in now.

If Florida wants to do mail in ballots than it should change the Florida Law and use mail in votes at the beginning of the Primaries and not in the middle of them.

Take care and ...

God Bless.

THE ONLY SOLUTION TO FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN

Find Tom Kennedy the last host I remember from name that tune:

Put both candidates on a debate stage and then have them play name that tune. The songs would be from only Florida and Michigan artists.

That means Lynyrd Skynyrd, The Allman Brothers, Eminem, etc.

Whomever gets the most right gets 60% of the delegates.

"Oregon went to a mail in system for general and there were many concerns initially about fraud which in the end were unfounded.."

Wendy, Oregon spent almost a decade cleaning up their voting rolls, identifying and confirming every registered person and their address. The Florida rolls, particularly if they allow for independents, are a mess if only because of duplicate registrations to other places on the East Coast not to mention all the people who might have been there in January who will no longer be there to cast a ballot when they finally get around to voting again.

CORIZNE and New Jersey

John Corzine it has been said may pay for a redo in Florida's election.

Now that new jersey has come in 3 worst place to live work or own a business

He may wish to not be involved in such a maneuver.

Before this man uses his own money to pay for the Hillary will win at any cost team.

He may want to put his money in a new jersey citizen comes first project.

If he does put his money in Florida,

I say impeach this bum immediately.

The day he puts his money in Florida.

instead of New Jersey.

Start the RECALL that day!

who's side is he is on, new jersey's or his own.

Ed Rendel should also watch out
His state is not doing so great either

Rez - you're welcome. I think the FL dem party is taking a lot of heat unfairly. They can't pass anything in the legislature without the support of the Reps and the Governor, so they have to take what they can get. The FL legislature set this whole thing up - KGC was following it pretty closely back then and educated me and others here about it, and they did their jobs as good little obstructionists very well. I can't say with certainty that an arrangement that would have allowed a later Dem primary couldn't have been worked out without the state's DSC footing the bill, but what occured since doesn't suggest that.

Jamie -------------------------

This "stuff" does not work on us. But the Repub Attack/Smear machine will use it to great effect - there is so much ammo. These attacks will destroy Obama. Sure, they would attack Hillary, but it's old news and she can deal with it - Obama has a "glass jaw". The Right Wing can hardly wait to go at Obama - they will "chew" him into little pieces. I've followed their operation for many years. Obama supporters are in denial. This is the "calm" before the "storm". The Repubs will be ferocious.

Pogo,

The money issue is a little disingenuous. I was reading..hearing .that a full blown primary would generate 20-30 million for the FL economy not counting multiplier effect.

"I know Crist isn't wanting to pay for sh*t and he's been talking out both side his mouth. "

The more I see him on tv the slimier he seems....

Gordo, you are a one-trick pony.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mioGewkWVdo

Gordo

That doesn't mean you have to help.

G-man,

Where's old Donald Segretti hanging out these days? :)

Is it November yet?

"Put both candidates on a debate stage and then have them play name that tune. The songs would be from only Florida and Michigan artists."

ROFL! Bear - good idea!

“Thousands of Pennsylvania voters are switching parties before the April primary, state and county election records show.”

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2008/02/15000_voters_in_state_switch_p.html

Record Voter Turnout in Florida

Voting was brisk throughout the day. Even before primary day, more than 1 million Florida residents, or about 10 percent of all those eligible, participated through absentee ballots or early voting. (Florida is one of several states to allow early voting at select polling stations.)

. Democratic turnout was also up dramatically from 2000 and 2004, with at least 1.7 million voting on that side.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18514724

Craig, thank you for your level headed and fair opinions. At first, it was a tough call choosing between two very capable Democratic candidates. But, the unfair treatment of Clinton by the media has been almost an abuse of the media. Now, I'm seeing supporters of Obama out there on the web making comments so rabid that I wonder if we're supporting the same political party and the same objectives: stabilizing our national economy, national healthcare and withdrawing our troops from Iraq. I voted in the last 2 elections and didn't vote for George W. in either election and could have stayed in bed, depressed for weeks over the last loss. So, let's hope the Democrats don't screw up this next election. Whichever Democratic candidate wins is fine with me. So, I wish both parties would calm down the rhetoric.

Maxtrue ----------

"Are you a 9/11 truther?"

Really, I don't know what to believe. What is fact and what is fiction? There are many agendas. It's very easy to create confusion by mixing small lies in with the truth.

There were other things on the Florida ballot besides the prsidential contest including a very important tax measure.

If people didn't vote. They probably weren't voters in the first place. There was plenty there for a vote to have meaning.

Not afraid of anything. As I posted earlier Corzine is ready to raise the money.

Patsi:

"Indeed, Howard Dean has been AWFUL. It freaks me to think I flrted with the idea he might be a good president."

That was before the Clinton Attack Machine got a hold of him. Divide and conquer - even if its within your own party.

The candidates created this increase political interest and passion, now which one can effectively maneuver to the next level and bring all the voters to the same table?

It seems to be getting ugly out there....people appear to be"digging in" for their own choice. At some point, a voter will just say " that's it....that went too far " ..and be finished.

Polls in Florida indicate Obama would lose by an even bigger margin.

I guess voters their didn't like his duplicitous answers to the issue of seating the delegation.

No Torture, No Exception

A collection of essays from across the political spectrum. From B1 Bob Barr to Jimmy Carter
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2008/0801.torture.html

A quote from Bob Barr
"Events of the past few years remind me more and more of Bizarro World"
A fan of superman comics, lol I'll be damn.

For Barr and I to agree on this means this is an issue that reaches across party lines. It is a basic moral choice. I think it is time we demand of all our candidates at all levels(even dog catcher) to take a stand.

No Torture! No Exception!!

Jack

If people are really interested in a mail-in election for Michigan and Florida, they should contact Oregon Secretary of State Bill Bradbury. He was one of the designers of the Oregon system.

People need to remember that Oregon has a history of well-run elections unlike Florida. Some serious questions need to be investigated to determine if Florida is up to the task of putting on a legitimate mail-in election in a short period of time.

Although I originally opposed the Oregon mail-in system, like most Oregonians I have become more favorable to it.

But, Oregon is not Florida. Elections are well-run here and a great deal of work went into making the mail-in system work.

If Florida and Mich. are really interested, they could contgact Sec. of State Bill Bradbury to see if it is practical to initiate a mail-in system in a short period of time.

In politics, smear by association is often very effective.

Pogo-
I realize it's the upfront costs. The disingenuousity (sp) is really stupidity and i was referring to the FL Gov and leg, although they've been shooting themselves in the foot a long while on this issue.

KGC-
I'd be curious to see how many voted early (FL-all methods) prior to Iowa. BO really gained some recognition after that. I think the same goes in your State. Early voting favored HRC. Wasn't CC curious about the early FL vote for that reason?
.

Another reason why this election matters

http://www.washingtonindependent.com/view/white-house-rules

"The debate highlights the stark ideological differences between the two parties in their approach to health care, particularly the government’s role in providing it. While most Democrats favor a robust expansion in federal health coverage—even to include the uninsured of modest incomes—the White House and its Republican supporters would transfer greater responsibility to private industry and individual patients"

Jack

In politics, smear by association is often very effective.

Posted by: GORDO | March 10, 2008 11:34 AM

We know Gordo.
And you do your best , don't you?

Jack

"In politics, smear by association is often very effective. "

Again, you don't have to help. It only works because of people who spread the garbage around.

Rezdog

Election day voters in Cal, Florida and especially Ohio broke for Clinton.

Wendy:

I am registered in FL.

The second part of the series about the direction the Army is taking in its planning and training for future conflict.

"The Rise of the Counterinsurgents"

http://www.washingtonindependent.com/view/a-famous-enigma

It is good reading

Jack

Anyways, I think this whole MI and FL debate is a sideshow that the GOP is grateful they are not having.

A waste of time that will hurt the Dems no matter how it plays out. Thanks again Senator Clinton!

I need to get back to work.

Rezdog
This is a pretty good story on the Cal election
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-me-calif7feb07,0,3415944.story

now I have to pretend to pay attention to a conference call. But I will post the Florida numbers later.

Really Warren
Thanks to Obama it is a mess. He is the one who organized the boycott in Michigan and then hinted he would seat the Fla delegation ...but then when he lost changed his mind.

The mess is due to Obama.

"Election day voters in Cal, Florida and especially Ohio broke for Clinton."

How about those who voted prior to January 29th in FL and Feb 5th in CA. I bet a perceptionally higher % for HRC than on election day.
in FL voting started Dec. 25th and in CA probably earlier??

Rezdog
The demographics of early voters favor Clinton, older and people who have jobs that make getting to the polls difficult.

"The first candidate to reject a revote is Obama

The Democratic state party chair in Michigan says the Barack Obama campaign has rejected the idea of a "firehouse primary." The proposal would have included:

Polls would be open from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m., and any eligible voter who hadn't voted in the state's Jan. 15 Republican primary could participate. The voter must be a citizen who turns 18 by the November election and declares himself or herself a Democrat for the day.
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/3/8/113812/9819

I am all for the revote in Florida & Michigan.
This should argur well for HRC . She has been at the forefront of the battle to have these states recognized.
BO's position is one of cowardly hiding behind the ludicrous stance of the DNC.
Its her best chance of overcoming BO's lead in the popular vote.

Rez, OK, Now I see who your are talking about as being disingenuous, sand we are in total agreement.

Jamie,

I hope you understand that it's incredibly paternalistic to assume that an African American of any situation needs your judgment to make a decision on what they use a reparation payment for? We're not talking the same language.

One, the notion that if a current generation of African Americans have become middle income, which is nearly 75% of all African Americans, then they don't deserve reparations. That's absurd. Reparations are designed as a monetary way to apologize for past wrongs. It has nothing to do with the condition of African American now.

Two, the issue of whether or not a "gang member" is threatened in a neighborhood is not something reparations is designed to attack. This is a condition that government in GENERAL is supposed to attack. There's nothing to inherent in my life versus a poor single mother or the gang members life, that says I will make a better choice with my reparations money. Just because I make more money or have an education, you come to that conclusion? And if I decide to blow my reparations on a car, what is it to you? Maybe I need a car more than anything? The point is that you don't know what my individual needs are, and you can't make a value judgment on my decision.

You don't get to say, okay, we apology and send reparations for having state sponsored racial laws/slavery, but we'll tell you what we're going to do with the money. You're not capable as adults to handle it.

Jamie - with regards to your 10:23 post. I am disturbed by the trend as well regarding Obama surrogates discounting Hillary supporters...especially women.

The part that has disturbed me is seeing all these men of the Democratic Party coming out and trying to prematurely push Hillary out of the race as well as disenfranchise voters (not just FL and MI but the states left to come)...certainly to serve their own interest.

If Obama supporters think Hillary is turning of some of his voters with her tactics...I can assure you that Obama surrogates are turning off her voters with these tactics.

Pogo,

Not that it means much, but...

Raiders once again beat Cardinals, winning exhibition opener 27-23

August 11, 2007

By JOSH DUBOW, AP Sports Writer

OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) The way last season went for the Oakland Raiders, they'll take any sort of a win - even an exhibition one over the Arizona Cardinals.

Andrew Walter threw a touchdown pass to Mike Williams and Hiram Eugene scored on a 36-yard interception return to lead Oakland to a 27-23 victory Saturday night in coach Lane Kiffin's first game with the Raiders.

I want this to count for the regular season. I don't care about the rules.

Alpha,

Did you post your idea as to a fair and just solution? I could not find it?

Let me give all of the Clinton supporters your daily reminder:

Clinton can't win. This is all smoke and mirrors. BTW, notice that she didn't win the most delegates in Texas? And that she'll be even further behind than she was before Ohio and Texas after Mississippi? I repeat. I repeat. Clinton can't win. I'm wondering what will happen if she can't win the overall vote total? Maybe she'll argue that she's won the most states with the letter "R" in them? That'll convince the SDs!

Rezdog
this article has info on Cal and Florida early voting.
In California, some 2.3 million voters have already voted by mail, says Stephen Weir, president of the California Association of Clerks and Election Officials. Based on the turnout he anticipates, he predicts that just under half of all ballots will be cast early and believes that a quarter of the vote is already in. Mr. Weir says several candidates bought lists of those permanent absentee voters, and have been working to lock in early votes.

In general, people who vote early tend to be more decided, slightly older, and more partisan, says Robert Stein, a political science professor at Rice University. Because of that, he notes, some candidates will change their message in the weeks leading up to the actual primary.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0201/p02s01-uspo.html

Generally, the assumption is early voters--even if they had to wait for election day would not have changed their minds.

Obama organized the boycott of Michigan and now has rejected a revote plan.

Who is afraid.

The obstacles to a do-over election to pick Michigan's delegates to the Democratic National Convention seemed to grow Friday, after Sen. Barack Obama's presidential campaign officials told the state's top party official that they wouldn't accept Gov. Jennifer Granholm's idea of a party-sponsored primary.

Granholm had suggested a "firehouse primary," which would allow Democrats to cast their ballots again sometime before June. It would cost about $10 million.

It would be the same procedure Democrats have used in past Michigan presidential caucuses. Polls would be open from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m., and any eligible voter who hadn't voted in the state's Jan. 15 Republican primary could participate. The voter must be a citizen who turns 18 by the November election and declares himself or herself a Democrat for the day.

Obama's campaign doesn't like the idea, said Michigan Democratic Party Chairman Mark Brewer.

"That's what I've been told by his campaign, but it's not my place to inquire about motivations," said Brewer,
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080308/NEWS06/803080308/&imw=Y

That's great Warren that you're registered in FL...then O' can count on your vote in the revote.

:-D

Follow the rules. If you say that something doesn't count, then they don't count.

OR

Split the delegates in half for each candidate and call it a day.

But don't try to give these bogus arguments:

a. 1.7 million Floridians voted so it has to count. No it doesn't. Did you know that Democrats have gone to the polls in record numbers, swamping Republicans in all by two states. Guess which one is on that list of two? Yep, Florida. So what happens to those Democrats who didn't vote because it was a bogus election? A bogus election is a bogus election.

b. But we'll lose Florida and Michigan if they don't count them, WAAAH! No we won't. At least if Democrats lose those states, it won't be because of primary votes. Do you hear Californians threatening to not vote Democrat because our primary is almost always worthless? Nope. We vote Democrat each and every time.

c. Hillary WON! Won what? It wasn't an election in either Florida or Michigan. But, in typical Clinton fashion, she ran to Florida to declare victory. Amazing how she forgot her words months earlier about how the election didn't count.

The only place O' has a chance in a revote is MI

FL will go heavily for Clinton

1) Because O' has been kind of a . . . jerk . . . to them

2) It's the oldest population in the country

3) Latinos

A new SurveyUSA poll has Hillary up by 37 over Sen. McCain among Latinos in Florida (67-30). The poll has Sen. Obama down by 7 to Sen. McCain among Latinos in the general election swing state (42-49).

He should spend his cash in MI for the revote - 3-1 over Clinton...see if he can eek out a win...then he'll have some MO going into the convention...otherwise...he's done after the revote.

:-D

Jamie -----------------------

I'm trying to "wake up" the Obama supporters - they are in some sort of stupor. Our goal should be to take the WH. Look at how Obama reacted last week - he is not "Battle Tough". The "stuff" I post here is mild - the Right Wing would come at him from all directions.

Alpha-

Actually, I was asking about the " reparations " you were speaking about previously, sorry I was not clear.

Alpha:

And Clinton announcing - before the votes were cast - that she would be down in FL to have a victory party - may have been within the letter of the law re: campaigning - but not in the spirit.

http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/02/ultimate-delegate-tracker.html

this site gives accurate information on delegate allocations.

Why does Obama fear a revote in Michigan.

It's an established process one the state has used before.

I thought he was for every vote being counted.

The only way Obama wins is to keep out Florida and Michigan.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/8/114740/0049

MULLIGAN STEW RECIPE

Making early votes matter is as easy as 1,2,3

1. The Florida Democratic Party acquires the list of voters who participated in the 1/29 Democratic primary from the state.
2. Send mail ballots to those and only those voters.
3. Count returned ballots.

Stir liberally. Drop onto cookie sheets. Ought to be half-baked by Denver. Decorate with media folderol and anguished campaign outcries. Serve with heaping helping of unintended consequences.

Of course, this rewards the very voters who sought to defy the DNC and the cosmetologically challenged voters who were too confused to know that Florida Ds were running a beauty contest while Florida Rs were running a half-primary.
Who better to determine the fate of our nation?

Alpha:

Donna Brazille - a member of the committee that sanctioned FL and MI - clearly said that within the rule that disqualified FL and MI there is a provision that allows both of them to come up with a plan to have their votes count...they can hold another primary/caucus or they can go to the credentials committee. Looks like FL and MI would like a revote to make sure their voters are not disenfranchised.

So...they are following the rules...

We can't pick the part of the rules we like and then reject the part of the rules we don't like.

BHO supporters really do not like HRC. I see it on all the blogs, on Tv, on You tube, it's everywhere.

Can anyone explain this very visible animosity ?

KGC-
Decent article and if i understand correctly (no guarantee)

"In Florida's primary, about a quarter of all ballots were cast early, which seemed to benefit Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton. But while absentee balloting favored Senator Clinton, exit polls showed a more even matchup between the two candidates among last-minute deciders."

If last minute deciders are election day voters then I think this article supports my point that ; a revote (1 day voting) will be better for BO as opposed to month long, all things being equal.

Anyway on to next subject MI :)

Oh, Rev'rund Al, lookin' for the spotlight, again.

http://www.nysun.com/article/72572

Because she's a monster. Okay, that was a JOKE. JOKE everyone!

"Just for the record, why are some states considered to be “more equal than” others? In particular, why has every big pundit in Robinson’s orbit (forget about the Clinton campaign!) treated Pennsylvania and Ohio as “more equal than” Wyoming? Why have they done so all through this campaign? Could it be because two million Democrats voted in Ohio last week—and roughly ten thousand did so in Wyoming?

Readers, let’s clear this up by stating the obvious. Robinson understands perfectly well why Pennsylvania and Ohio are considered “more equal.” But uh-oh! Stepfordized pundits—people like Robinson ..

At this point, Robinson will plainly say anything. He’ll even look at you, as if in a daze, and pretend he can’t distinguish two million votes from the ten thousand votes they just cast in Wyoming."

http://dailyhowler.com/

One day voting...that's not what they are saying in Florida. They are talking about mail ballots with plenty of time.

One day voting is s what they are saying in Michigan and that is what your candidate has rejected.

It's clear now Obama doesn't want a revote. He doesn't want Michigan or Florida to count at all.

What's up with that.?

Gordo,

Sorry, but doing it here is a totally useless and truly aggravating activity. Endless repetition of incessant, identical, and totally unproven crud just invites the same sort of nonsense to be directed at Senator Clinton. It causes way more damage than any benefit done for her side.

"Visible animosity"..I think there is a deep resentment toward strong women in politics. Many who are professing the "new politics" don't match their rhetoric with commitment.
Her concrete solutions backed up by a fervant belief in Democratic Party principles are a threat to the hope and sunshine crowd

"What's up with that.?"

i think that's premature.Haven't seen the official BO campaign reply. Levin wants mail -in.

TPM Cuts Female Writer Not Making Case for Obama

http://taylormarsh.com/

Here's the Detroit Freepress
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080308/NEWS06/803080308/&imw=Y

"One day voting...that's not what they are saying in Florida. They are talking about mail ballots with plenty of time."

KGC-
It's obvious I'm not making any sense. To me. giving someone 1 month to mail a vote or go vote at an early poll, like they did in FL, is drastically different than what's being proposed now with this new mail-in redo. Send out ballots one week, turn it back the next or some similar variation.

FREEP = BO campaign?
Get it right KC

"In a conference call with reporters, Obama campaign manager David Plouffe didn't address a do-over primary election, and the campaign did not respond to Free Press requests for comment."-freep

March10:

"BHO supporters really do not like HRC. I see it on all the blogs, on Tv, on You tube, it's everywhere.

Can anyone explain this very visible animosity ?"

It is by no means limited to BHO supporters. The explanation has to do with the high negatives that the Clintons have built up as a result of engaging in decades worth of political death matches.

BHO supporters are just the latest target of the Clinton hit machine. People don't forget about this stuff after the elections or the political fights are over.

And this large percentage of the country that does not like Hillary, that will not vote for another Clinton, and that will do anything and everything to thwart HRC's progress if she ever was elected President - is one of the reasons I support Obama.

All we heard about at the start of this primary - was that once "people get to really know Hillary - they will like her." Talk about mistaken predictions.

Folks there ain't no stinkin' rules. The party can't tell the state when to hold an election. So they were valid elections. No one forced the candidates to limit their campaigning in either of the states. No one force any one to withdraw their names from the ballot in Michigan. All those choices were political decisions made by the candidate. It is my opinion they should have to live by their decision. No do overs.
The only role the party has is to determine party rules for seating delegates. I'm not certain how much leeway the court will give the party on that.
So either seat them or don't seat them and live with the consequenses.

And I suspect the consequences will be a McCain presidency

Jack
tired of the whining on both sides.

Why not reopen the two contests, keep the votes that were cast, and give everyone who did not vote a chance to do so.

This seems fair.

I am just of the belief that we should treat people with respect, even in a heated contest. I especially do not understand the other politicians who come out and say the dumbest things, they just look like idiots.

I "hope" the "hope and sunshine" crowd understand that this isn't just like American Idol. Sometimes I think there is just too much of a "FAD syndrome" surrounding this election and I think it interferes the gravitas of the position of POTUS.

Many voters were only age 3 at the beginning of the Clinton years....they don't "know" the Clintons.

Actually, I think McCain has a real shot at winning. The Democrats look like a cloned headless chicken with too many feet trying to figure out which way is up. It is a real shame.

The Republicans will feed off this, gain strength and support by appearing to actually know how to accomplish the simple task of counting votes.

Democracy......?

Hillary is never going to win over the haters..We don't need them..FDR didn't need them..

The Texas and Ohio primaries showed that Hillary is eating into Obama support groups..independents, white men, etc...It is working.

Important Note: Hillary is winning Democrats!!!!! Why? Because she stands for something concrete..

March10:

Does implying that Obama supporters are a bunch of naive voters, who treat the general election like American Idol and who are voting for a "fad" conform with your belief that "we should treat people with respect"?

Or does that only apply when people are talking about your beloved Hillary.

"One, the notion that if a current generation of African Americans have become middle income, which is nearly 75% of all African Americans, then they don't deserve reparations"

I didn't say that. I'm trying to come up with a method that puts the greatest amount of direct benefit into a community that has suffered historically with a negative result.

How do you decide on the amount? If you took every single slave at the end of the civil war and the value of the 40 acres and mule with interest for the last 150 years compounded, it still wouldn't give much to their descendants as individuals. I'm trying to figure out a way to get the maximum amount of money into the hands of a community without too much government interference or direction.

I know what you are saying about a car. I'm from Los Angeles remember. The government says send a monthly check to a woman with children so that she can live in borderline poverty when what she needs most is large lump sum for a car to transport her children to day care and her to work. You are absolutely right that making decisions for others often perpetuates and undesireable condition.

By your logic, a lump sum would be sent out to all entitled people even though a large percentage of those funds would do absolutely nothing to change the condition of a community. Why spend three times as much shopping at a 7/11 when putting a franchised black run Safeway in the area that would mean better, less expensive food?

When reparations went to Indians, it went to elected tribal councils who worked toward providing necessary services (home improvements, clinics, electricity etc.) for the reservations. Not totally perfect, but better than welfare or "paternalistic" government decision. There were cash payments as well and proved to be the least effective means of improving conditions.

http://www.prrac.org/full_text.php?%20text_id=649&item_id=6623&newsletter_id=17&header=Symposium:%20Reparations

When reparations went to Japanese it was specific payments for lost property and an amount for incarceration. The amount was $20,000 per person.

http://www.pbs.org/childofcamp/history/index.html

I'm not presuming to tell the black community either as individuals or as groups what the negotiated amount should be or how it should be spent. I'm trying to come up with ideas that assist to improve and rectify so that the existing conditions are not perpetuated. Those final decisions have to lie with those who were abused by the system.

No the fad issue goes to the entire election all sides/you tube MSM, everyone....the Hope and Sunshine was referenced to another person's post.

Observations from the Whole Foods parking lot..

The more gigantic and expensive the SUV..the more likely to see an Obama bumper sticker...No wonder these people aren't interested in universal health care.

OD:

"The Texas and Ohio primaries showed that Hillary is eating into Obama support groups..independents, white men, etc...It is working."

If this is true - what happened to the 20-30 point leads she had in these states?

States that favor Obama's base - he wins by 15-30 points.

States that favor Clinton's base - she wins by 4-10 points (and I think she might lose PA).

Refusing to discuss the issue with reporters doesn't mean anything...the earlier quote from the article says it all

:Obama's campaign doesn't like the idea, said Michigan Democratic Party Chairman Mark Brewer.

"That's what I've been told by his campaign, but it's not my place to inquire about motivations," said Brewer..."

Detroit Free Press not the Free Republic

And having one week to return the ballot might be your plan but that is not what they are discussing in Florida
no decisions on timing have been made.

But it seems you are interested in limiting the number of people who can vote not increasing it.

Show me some evidence that supports the claim Clinton will lose Pa.

The fact that Obama is afraid to revote in Florida and Michigan tells me she is stronger in Pa and getting stronger.

I am a HRC supporter, but I have taken the time and to see each candidate in person. I found that seeing the canidates in person is extremely important, and I do not think I have ever posted anything negative about any one single candidate personally.

I just was wondering why people (voters not candidates) "hate" HRC so much. When I hear it's about what happened in the 90's I think of all the young voters who had no idea about that because they were babies. That's all.

Many young voters do not even understand the issues, I know because I have a 18 & 19 year old. Ask them to explain the sub-prime mortgage blow out and how that relates to the stock market, city planning, taxes..come on.

I could go on but I think you get the idea.

I'll take a 10% win in Ohio to a 20 pt. win in Wyoming any day..

Hillary..the choice of Democrats to be the Democratic nominee..

David Gregory to take over Tucker's old spot on MSNBC:

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/msnbc/david_gregory_to_anchor_6pm_show_on_msnbc_79388.asp#more

I didn't think they'd give it to Shuster, considering his recent stay in the doghouse, but I was hoping for Rachel Maddow...

Hillary Clinton willbe the 2008 Democratic nominee for President and will be sworn in as President in January.

Warren , KGC
Cute outfits

S U C C E S S

Thats the way we spell success

GO TEAM!!!!

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEAH!!!

;-)

Jack

I think BHO just told a crowd he is not running for VP.

KGC:

Obama is not "afraid" of a revote. And he was not "afraid" to debate Clinton. But these things are not in his interest - because he is the frontrunner. That title was not given to him - he earned it after winning more states, votes and delegates thus far in the primary.

And you all talk about how great it is that Hillary is a fighter - and then you bitch and moan when Obama doesn't roll over and do something to serve his opponent's interests.

Obama has put it on the record that he will go along with whatever solution is decided. There is no reason for him to do anything more. And there is certainly no reason for him to pay for it.

Tucker Carlson always seems to have some type of job..He must have pictures.

David Gregory.another anti-Hillary hack for MSNBC..

"Many young voters do not even understand the issues, I know because I have a 18 & 19 year old. Ask them to explain the sub-prime mortgage blow out and how that relates to the stock market, city planning, taxes..come on"

*chuckle*
And us oldsters can do better?

That is a semester or two of master levle course work you listed there.

Jack

David Gregory doesn't have enough charisma for an entire show.....Race for the White House.....oh well, they should have given that time slot to a woman host....to give their line-up some depth.

Oh wait.....that's MSnbc........nevermind.

Warren
We are talking about counting all the votes not just the votes that are in your best interest.

Sure blows a big whole in your new politics theory if the only way you can win is to exclude two states

"David Gregory to take over Tucker's old spot on MSNBC:"

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/msnbc/david_gregory_to_anchor_6pm_show_on_msnbc_79388.asp#more

Hmm, I say dump Olbermann, give his slot to Maddow, then dump whats-his-name at 9, giving his time to Aaron Brown, and then pull Matthews for a week of doghouse time giving his slot to Gregory.

Warren...

Hillary agreed to debate Senator O 18 times when she was the frontrunner..While he is the frontrunner, he has minimized debates.

Your comment that it is not in his interests as the frontrunner to debate sounds like the Old Politics to me.

More evidence of the sham of the hope and sunshine campaign...

March10:

"When I hear it's about what happened in the 90's I think of all the young voters who had no idea about that because they were babies. That's all."

The average voter knows Bill messed around with an intern in the White House. Most know the GOP tried to impeach him for this. Most voters also know that the Clintons and the GOP were involved in some bitter fight - even if they don't know the details of Whitewater, etc.

And even someone who doesn't have a clue - can pick up the animosity against the Clintons still held by some in the media and the GOP - that is left over from the Clinton days.

True Jack, but at least if you have ever held a mortgage, you know a bit more then someone who hasn't. All the issues are complicated...and Yes - I think that most oldsters could do better. : ) Then a high school senior and a college freshman

Interesting little article in the WSJ regarding O's church and IRS audit...

"Ellen Aprill, an associate dean at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles and a former adviser to the Treasury Department on matters including nonprofit tax law, says she believes those sermons are "clearly a violation. They're naming names.'"

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB120511457633523621-jt3tKeinOKtip77kposjx14OHI0_20080408.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top

Warren,

That is exactly what I am saying, that's the " very visible animosity "

March10 wrote: "I think BHO just told a crowd he is not running for VP."

That's OK - there are others to take his place

[snickers]

Yes march10. It is visible and it is real - and it is not going anywhere (in fact it seems to be increasing with the recent "kitchen sink" approach). It does not matter how much you personally like Hillary and believe she is the best candidate.

http://www.comedycentral.com/motherload/player.jhtml?ml_video=24406&ml_collection=&ml_gateway=&ml_gateway_id=&ml_comedian=&ml_runtime=&ml_context=show&ml_origin_url=%2Fmotherload%2Findex.jhtml%3Fml_video%3D24406%26ml_collection%3D%26ml_gateway%3D%26ml_comedian%3Dnone%26ml_context%3Dshow&ml_playlist=&lnk=&is_large=true

Reparations 2003

Exactly Wendy. His name is Charlie Crist and the Clintons are increasing his chances of becoming the next VP.

NEW THREAD

RELOAD

Count me a McCain voter if Obama gets it. Who does he think he is? He could have handled this joint ticket question better. Just say it's flattering but we'll have to see. Instead it's "I've won more states " and the same OLD "judgement" crap. Are we to believe he has some kind of special power? GO HILLARY!! PS just saw him saying we have to clean house in Wash. You can start with Ted and John K. Maybe all these guys supporting him should listen more closely. He thinks he doesn't need you or any of those who went before him.(Jackson, Sharpton or "Racist" ex-presidents)

warren, don't tell it to us - tell it to Mark Brewer. and the DP in FL Apparently Brewer doesn't get the same message from the campaign that you're getting. I suggest that the two campaigns get together and figure out what they will accept and get on with it. Whether Obama is the front funner or not, and whether he is afraid of a revote in FL & MI or not, his campaign and his supporters are making it look like he is afraid of a revote in FL & MI. This is not good for either him or the Dem party in Nov., and with FL being a critical swing state in the past 2 elections, they need to cut the crap, do something that the voters of FL (MI ain't likely going R no matter how this turns out) will take as an acknowledgment of the value the Dem party and candidates place on their support, and get on with it.

Oh, and Alpha, I've checked both Raiders.com and NFL.com and that Raiders/Cardinals game isn't on any schedule. Maybe it was a straw game?

KGC,
Hard to banter with two ongoing conversation on similar issues? :)

1)There is no OFFICAL statement from BO about MI redo. When there is i'm sure one of us will blast it here. Brewer 's a bag man for Grandholm, who's in the tank for HRC. We're both reading the same DFP article, "and the campaign did not respond to Free Press requests for comment."

2) There is no redo in FL yet, BUT IF they did a mail-in redo, it's got to be quick and simple and no one is going to agree to a month long process. Besides, a mail-in redo would be a total absentee vote and most likely some additional campaigning so the voters there will know BO better than they did Dec 25-Jan29. More to his advantage. He's electable now and many back then weren't sure.
"But it seems you are interested in limiting the number of people who can vote not increasing it."
No, just an informed number

Well Warren if that's the case...as Doris Day sings (you might sing along)...Que Sera Sera

It's fascinating to me as I read the blog today the extreme level of fear some (not all) Obama supporters here have of a re-vote...is this because the "will of the people" will turn out to be Hillary rather than Obama? Tsk tsk tsk...and I was looking forward to some "new politics"...guess we'll have to continue to wait on the new and make use of the old.

A little refresher course on Obama's accomplishments...he's really good at running for office...not so good about doing much of anything while he's there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/09/us/politics/09obama.html?_r=1&sq=Obama&st=nyt&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&scp=8&adxnnlx=1205172552-HYY4TlX5N2hADI/fWTA+9w

on the other hand...Jesse Kearns, a navy veteran forced to take the anthrax vaccination causing him to have multiple stokes and had trouble getting the medical care he needed said after Hillary made sure he did get the medical care he needed...and I quote..."Hillary Clinton saved my life".

Or Joe Ward who credits Hillary with saving his son's life after insurance company refused to pay for his bone marrow transplant. Within days of Hillary finding out about it, the insurance company called the family to say it would be taken care of. That's just a couple of stories.

When Hillary gets into office...she actually does use it to help people and sometimes on a very individual level. 9/11 survivors and their families. Troops coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan. People who have medical coverage because of her plan to cover children...they all have stories.

Vote for the guy who pushes through one decent piece of legislation with his name on it so he can point to it as an accomplishment as he runs for the next highest office?

OR

vote for the person who takes the time to make a real difference in people's lives...such a difference that many of them credit her with saving their lives.

If it puts McCain into office...I consider that a problem from O's side...not Hillary's

:-)

NEW THREAD

RELOAD

"Divide and conquer - even if its within your own party. "

Not that you would know, Warren....since you've not been a member of it.

"I'm trying to "wake up" the Obama supporters - they are in some sort of stupor. "

Well, Gordo you can't do it. So give it up.

"BHO supporters are just the latest target of the Clinton hit machine. People don't forget about this stuff after the elections or the political fights are over."

What a crock. The O Train has been down and dirty -- just like when O got people taken off the ballot when he started out.

And DO NOT tell me to "play nice." I got back and have read some ugly stuff from Obots.

Gordo, if you want links, there is complete scientific evidence that refutes the claims 9/11 was a controlled demolition. The site offers an extensive scientific examination and refutation of every claim by truthers. The idea that explosivies were put in place at hundreds of points without any of the thousands of staff noticing is, in itself, absurd. The idea of a micronuke is also absurd. Bet the boys at DoD would love to have that one. I've done some good research and the moonbats are completely wrong. For you to be uncertain goes directly to your easoning powers, sorry, but that's the truth.

I mention this because it goes to your credibility and the sanity of many of the sites you link. As Rez says, I may be nuts but I'm not a wing nut. The claims I make are rooted in reasonable fact or reasonable speculation. I have no conspiracy dog to push, nor do I believe Duval and Barak were created in some Zbig intelligence lab. I think such over the top notions detracts from more reasonable criticism about Barak and his policy team.

You posted a site that laments Kucincih and Paul split the critical majority to thwart the crazy Clinton and Obama crews. It is so over the top as to be hilarious. Yes, there are some interesting observations to be found in many of your links, but Rez is right that underlying them is some crazy LaRouche-like paranoid dellusions. Next you might post a link to sedatives in the drinking water to Cheney, or that the US never landed on the moon. Now I'm sure you're not trying to beat Anon, are you?

What's up with that Gordo? Perhaps one too many X-files? Just a thought.

On the other side of the coin, CQ posted an article on Rezko. Even most bloggers know more answers and connections than CQ stated. Where did Rezko get his money to help Obama buy his house? Auchi, and that's well known. No need to bring truthers into the equation. Once you do, credibility is lost.

Craig,
I agree with flatus!!!
I just got home so I have to keep reading the comments. Some interesting stuff.
Craig do you think this will disintergrate the party?
It seems like they are digging a hole they will not get out of. As I have said before I do not see any logical solutions, but then again are they logical?

I'm a Florida Democratic voter, and we, the voters, had no say over any of this mess. I am not happy with the incompetent leadership of everyone who created this: the state legislature, the DNC, the credentials committee, the Gov. and the state Dem party.

We already voted and our delegates have already been chosen. Count our vote or count us out in November, regardless of who the Democratic candidate is. I also hope my fellow Floridians will join me in "firing" the elected officials that thought it was alright to play political chicken with each other to the detriment of their constituents.