Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Pogo
As to your response to Zumper--

zumper, I don't think the independent votes shouldn't be considered intotal vote count. I would argue that Repug votes should not be considered when determining which candidate has the most votes, but from a practical standpoint, I don't see how you could accomplish that.

This may be a pretty out there suggestion, but since I remain really unhappy about the I's & reps votes contributing to the selection of a Democratic candidate how about something like this:

In the states where reps &/or i's are allowed to cross over to vote, further proportionately allocate the # of sd's in those states to reflect the % of r's & i's vs. % of registered dems voting.

I know, this will infuriate the obama supporters, but as a registered democrat, it really bothers me that this has happened. Again, I state, that democratic party members (who chose to be members) should be selecting their nominee.

Coreen, I don't have a problem with that asa long as repugs are excluded. My biggest concern is the repugs messing with our nominating process as opposed to independents participating in it. Who knows, maybe participationin the demprocesscould convince some of them to become RDs.

btw, did you see my last post to you on the last thread?

Pogo

Craig,
I think I understand your point and agree. One of the problems is that many of us who love the political system and follow closely have helped 24 hr news cycles become a big part of everyday life. COnsequently, the pundits, correspondents or whatever you chose to call them feel compelled to do and or say something. The need to be right has created the need to create events and then these people are right.

I liked it better when we could make up our limited minds and then let people report it and evaluate after the event, it was better when the commentators didn't help their predictions become reality.

Craig,
I think I understand your point and agree. One of the problems is that many of us who love the political system and follow closely have helped 24 hr news cycles become a big part of everyday life. COnsequently, the pundits, correspondents or whatever you chose to call them feel compelled to do and or say something. The need to be right has created the need to create events and then these people are right.

I liked it better when we could make up our limited minds and then let people report it and evaluate after the event, it was better when the commentators didn't help their predictions become reality.

Hi Coreen,

not a lawyer here. I would not be infuriated at all if the primes and the general were closed to those that were not registered to the particular party. Makes me furious that some jerk like Rush would ask his minion to toy with the Dems prime.

oh and btw, I am an BHO supporter but mostly I am a democrat and the idea is to elect a candidate to contest and win in the general

yo soy Hussien Horsedooty!

Sorry for duplicate, I acknowledge the comment wasn't that brilliant.

Susan Rice Says Obama Isn't Ready For 3 A.M. Phone Call

Sen. Obama’s top foreign policy advisor came right out and said :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TumIz2bajus

I agree with Hussein Horsedoody about keeping primaries to party you are registered in and his comment about Rush.

Difference is I am with Hillary til the last dog dies and I think we had a new litter of pups tuesday!

so craig - the current delegate split as estimated by the various media sources is just an estimate whose difference is about equal to the number of superdelegates who have not yet been selected? Sounds like we're in the cards flying into the air phase of a game of 52 card pickup and that any declaration of being ahead or behind by an insurmountable amountin the delegate count involves a bit of puffery.

I too favor closed primaries but it has to be coupled with the parties making a better effort to attract people.
As dog H dog has pointed out in the past, the fastest growing segment of registered voters are the independents (aka the declined to states.)

I

Pogo I did see your response, somehow, I got caugt between (this is not my forum), I will respond later, need to get going office is 1/2 hour drive time.

Sir Horsedooty--So you know, I will support & vote for either Hillary or Obama. It is imperative that dems do not shoot themselves in the foot--This election was supposed to be one the dems "could not loose"

We all need to keep that in mind. The alternative will be a continuing disaster to us & the world.

elaine, not to worry - there's been a lot of duplicate posting going on here for the past day or two - I think cq needs to contact HP about getting a few new blades.

Elaine,

you don't have to call me Hussein Horsedooty! That is my full name. Most around here call me Dooty or Doots. Either will work Pogo bin agogo is too lazy to type Dooty or Doots and just types HD. All those work.

yo soy Hussein Horsedooty!

elaine, LOL at the litter comment. All I can say is yup to the pups.

HD, I resemble that remark. LOL

Coreen as I stated to BlueMax last night, I too, intend to support which ever candidate is selected. I am a Yellow Dog Democrat.

yo soy Hussein Horsedooty!

Repost from last thread below.

Coreen...

I tried to once get everyone to stop bashing each others candidates with no success.

It kept getting worse and I stopped commenting on the candidates for awhile, however the constant innuendo about Obama being possibly corrupt or not honest was a smear attempt to damage him politically and what I felt was harmful to the Democratic Party.

So the exchange above since Patsi acted like I was either Zell Miller or Judas Lieberman. Something that I took great offense at as has others who have had her mock them as well for her replies to them.

I have already said that no one is going to change the other persons mind about their candidate and we shouldn't be bashing each others as it would be harmful to the party and possibly split the party come November.

A lot of commenters, some regular and new ones don't think that will happen, but it is a real possibility and should be taken very seriously.

Outside of that I have nothing further to say on the matter.

God Bless.

I have always been a loyal democrat, KGC, however, if the DNC does not clean up its act, I will join those independents. The system of a two step in Texas, a redo in my home state of FL, it is enough to say we have an antiquated system that needs hugh revisions including getting rid of Howard Dean.

FL democrats are hanging in the wind. They acted responsibly, although ignored by the candidates (except Obama whose little face and voice were in ads on cable, all over), we went to polls and voted for our choice.

Howard Dean and the DNC had no right to disenfranchise a whole sate because a GOV and Legislature of the opposite party did not obey. Give me a break!! They (the DNC made this mess by drawing the line in the sign with people (repugs) who had nothing to lose but create this crisis.

Talk about ego and stupidity, we have it in abundance!!!

Got it Dooty!

If I were master of the universe.

First I would eliminate the delegate system from the nominating process. Delegates should be selected by the state parties. They should decide party business and pick party leaders. The party often has interest and needs that conflict with the wants of the president. The party needs to be able to pursue a broader agenda.

Next, one person one vote, "keep it simple stupid"(KISS) I don't care if you caucus or have a primary. count the votes and send them in.

next, All primary votes count, no more beauty contests.

Jack

kgc...

"As dog H dog has pointed out in the past, the fastest growing segment of registered voters are the independents (aka the declined to states.)"

And one day we may see an Independent Party putting out a full slate of candidates for all elected offices, from local, state and federal.

Both parties have pissed off their party supporters and that should give both parties reason to think about doing the right thing for there supporters instead of taking them for granted.

I'm outta here til later.

Take care and ...

God Bless.

I went to Iowa and I was disappointed, not at the outcome, but because the process is not democratic. It disenfranchises, the elderly, handicapped homebound, and shift workers. It is antiquated and it minimizes one voter, one vote philosophy.

this is something that Will Rogers said a long time ago. Things don't seem to have improved any at all.

Will Rogers said, "I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!

Yo soy un demócrata amarillo del perro.

yo soy Hussein Horsedooty!

aaaaarrrrrgghhhh!
I hate it when I do a long post at the bottom of a thread.... and I have no idea how to repost from this ancient laptop.... so I will try to recreate it....

Pogo.... it's official.... I am a bonfide prune!
taking another chlorine break today.... going shopping at LaHouts....

I think those of you who say do a revote in Florida and Michigan have no real concept of how elections are actually paid for....

elections (and primaries) are paid for by tax payer money from each town and city..... they are part of a city's budget..... same as police or fire dept. budgets....

in these troubled financial times, I'd bet that most town and city budgets are the same as my hick town's..... cut to the bone to keep taxes down as much as possible.... because if they aren't... the voters will let you know what they think in the next local election....

so if your state is ordered to do a revote, and it's not paid for by the national party.... where does your city get the funds to hold another primary.... what must you cut in order to find the money..... the police department, the school budget, the rec. dept..... or maybe you just forgo repaving some roads or close the library for several days a week......

and if this happens in your town because of f**ked up democratic party rules.... would you be inclined to vote democratic come the general election....

I agree with Craig..... you can't really predict anything at this point..... but I'd bet money that if Florida and Michigan have to pay for another primary in order to get their delegates seated, you can kiss those state goodbye for the democrats come Novemeber....

elaine of tampa...

Howard Dean was right in one respect. You have to have a 50 state plan and the Democratic Party for years ignored most of the smaller states unless it was crucial to the election going on at that particular time.

Obama used the fifty state idea and look what it got him, more delegates Hillary. So you can't blame all this on him.

All candidates knew that by moving the primaries up would net them no delegates and they all agreed. Hillary thought she was a lock for the nomination and only brought this up when Obama gave her a run for her money, so to speak.

And yes it is screwed up and needs to be fixed. But like I posted awhile back, Bill Clinton won both the Primary and Caucus in Texas in both 92 and 96. I think he also won the Caucuses in all the other states that had them.

They only started complaining when Hillary wasn't doing well in them.

You can probably look up past election results to see if I'm right about Bill winning other state caucuses in 92 and 96 if you want, however I will not.

God Bless.

Craig--

Please shout these from every roof top across the land.

elaine, I envy your choice of venue:-) Spent a few days there last fall and love the place. And I completely agree with your take on caucuses and primaries. We have at both the nominating and election levels antiquated systems devised initially shortly after the demise of he dinosaurs, and long before even reliable mail service existed, to say nothing of opscan voting forms, computers, electronic data transmission of encrypted data files, and all the other things that make direct election not only possible, but practical. Of course being resistant to change from the debacle we know to the imagined disaster we don't know, we continue to cling to a system that doesn't work worth a damn because some high school puke hacked into the Pentagon's computers.

I trying to understand the basic arguments.

Without saying what's fair/unfair or what i like or don't, as I understand the basic rules, notwithstanding the pledged/bound issues;

1) candidates need to reach 2025 total delegates to be nominated,
2) this total comes from delegates awarded based upon primary and caucus voting, plus SDs.

Am i correct to this point? Anyone.

Morning peeps.
"They only started complaining when Hillary wasn't doing well in them." Exactly! Hell they were so certain they owned the nomination they couldn't even be bothered reading the rules based on some on the stupid things both Hillary and Bill have said in Nevada and Texas, and these people are to be trusted when the phone rings at 3:00 AM. Give me a break.

I don't think Florida and Michigan should be lumped together, The circumstances are completely different.

As for an independent party....not likely because independents are a pretty diverse group some too conservative for the Repulbicans and some too liberal for Democrats.

On balance I think Dr. Dean has done a good job but it's my view he lied to the Florida Democrats. I believe he said they would honor the vote and now he has backed away from that completely.

Thx

I have no problem with these rules .

I think BO is willing to live with these rules. Do you know where he said otherwise? maybe i'm wrong.

Rez, that's my understanding.

what's the problem then!

FL MI will dealt with before Denver

I don't care for the pledged- bound crap. that's when individualS other than SDs start veering off course IMO.

What is a yellow dog democrat?

What role will Florida delegates have if the DNC does not permit them to participate? Although the DNC has said it will not recognize delegates from Florida, the Florida Democratic Party plans to appeal to the eventual Democratic nominee for President to be seated at the Convention. While there are no guarantees that this will happen, the Party will continue the delegate selection process to elect the actual delegates to the Democratic National Convention and will use the results of the January 29th Presidential Preference Primary to determine the apportionment of those delegates.
http://www.fladems.com/content/w/florida_delegate_selection_to_the_2008_democratic_national_convention

ET
I replied to your ??? in yesterday's comments.

Rez, which one? About Sarah?

Can't we just get these two candidates together and run the "dream team" and win this damn thing?

http://www.yellowdogdemocrat.com/history.htm

ET,

a yellow dog democrat is a southern phrase that is
"I would rather vote for a yellow dog than a Republican"

Yo soy un demócrata amarillo del perro.

yo soy Hussein Horsedooty!

Ok got the def. of YELLOW DOG Democrat:

In the late 19th century and throughout the 20th century, yellow dog Democrats were voters in the U.S. Southern states who consistently voted for Democratic candidates because of lingering resentment against Republicans from the Civil War and Reconstruction periods. The term arose from the notion that a Southerner would vote for a yellow dog before voting for a Republican.

WADR, Brian and AP, that's a bullsh*t argument based on a misrepresentation and doesn't address the merits of the discussion, which was suggested by Craig's post. The nature of blogs is to discuss issues as they arise, and this issue has been ongoing , albeit not constantly, since the primary process began. The idiocy of the calendar was discussed here at the beginning of the process, as were the inherent flaws in the caucus process when Iowa was ongoing - and it certainly was not a two person race at that point. And FL & BMI were discussed here at length when they occurred and Howie said they wouldn't be counted. So AP's contention is simply wrong. Now we haven't discussed creationism v. evolution here as far as I can recall, either, but if it comes up in the context of a proposed law or court ruling so that it becomes a present problem I bet we will, which won't diminish the legitimacy of the discussion of the merits by the fact that it wasn't discussed before it became a present issue.

I'm going to lunch.

thanks KGC, thanks Dooty, and I am sorry I didn't google it first. But I learned something new ... thanx much!

yep ET about midnight

Maybe George Soros will offer to pay for a revote in Florida! Patsi you claim to know everyone, why dont' you give him a call.

HD & ET, that's right - been one all my adult life. Woof.

Good morning...(hello Yo soy Horsedoddy, Hussein Horsedoddy and ET...haven't got to say that in awhile)

I am so simple, I still feel we would really streamline and de-mystify the whole election process if it were truly were one person, one vote count -- the popular votes. From the nomination process to the electoral college, I beleive most Americans do believe their vote counts. That is just not the truth. And if any of these candidates were truly the "change" candidates, they would look at how this process works. I still think popular vote should be the deciding vote in party nominations and Presidential elections.

Why should Florida revote. They already voted. If the election had been five days later it would count.
Both Dean and Pelosi previously stated they would honor the vote if the delegation was seated. Obama said he would honor the vote and seat the delegation while illegally campaigning in Florida....when he didn't win he changed his mind. Maybe he shouldn't have voted against radio marti.

In Michigan apparently the Dingell's should pay for the new process.

Pogo,

There a presumption that the majority of SDs favor HRC.
I'm not so sure about that. Given that, there are those who feel HRC will play some shenanigans to make that happen. I'm paranoid about that but i'm not real vocal about it. If that happens in the background people will know it and it will get out and it will hurt us in November. So, i'm for letting the process go forward with the rules as we understand. i 'm optimistic the FL -MI situation will be worked out to the majority satisfaction. We can argue the party voting rules for 2012 and beyond later.

hey Blonde wino,

It is HorsedOOty not HorsedoDDy lol just poking fun

spent some time last week in Alpine, By God, TX Chamber of Commerce type weather until Monday when we had at least 45mph wind and the temp was about 20F and lots of snow at 6 AM. We spent most of the morning freezing our tuckses off bring in new plants and covering trees. The lady of the house owns the only plant nursery in 3 counties down there.

Yo soy un demócrata amarillo del perro.

yo soy Hussein Horsedooty!

HD...I am still the queen of typos and dyslexic, to boot. Thank you for your bilingual closing...yellow dog...did you pick that up in Alpine?

ET:
I'm not sure when you left town but S. Pederson got her Captain License for her sailing yacht. i think she co-owns it with a good friend.
Sarah went with my wife and I to the Obama rally in Seattle last month. She tells me she's mad at you for being a Clinton nut among other things..:-)
My wife works with her at the Library.
later.
Posted by Rezdog

REZ!

I love Sarah P... !!! From the moment I first saw her I thought she was just awesome. She reminded me of Gloria Steinem, articulate, attractive, funny, low-key and an all around good person. Yeah Sarah told me she was for Obama! We all marched during the orig. Gulf war in 1990 (I think it was) to the State Capitol. She didn't like the NY NOW statement on Teddy Kennedy's endorsement of Obama and was very clear in stating that she supported Obama, and saw the excitement generated in young people as an excellent reinvigoration of the political process. Most of my closest friends are for Obama, but I have admired Hillary for years and still think she is awesome.

But Rez... what OTHER things did I do to make her mad? :-)

What is your wife's name, and if you don't wanna say, what is her capacity at TESC?

ET

KGC,
As i see it, today, if the FL stood as is , HRC would net about 30 dels, not enough to matter today. Because each del has become so important, no on is willing to concede any.
i really think it's just a distraction.

One little fact about Florida...BHO did advertise in the state while the other candidates did not. His national ad buy bled into Florida, so he cannot say it was all unfair. As for Michigan...it is more complicated.

And the repugs with their winner take all primaries really ignore the popular vote. I really think the average American doesn't understand that their vote does not count.

Blonde Wino... I got a weird form of dyslexia, never confirmed medically but based on other people's observations. I have almost an impossible time to read a map... I end up going the opposite direction that I am supposed to go... I took a class in sign language, and I was the only student in the class that kept making the signs in reverse. I am hopeless when it comes to geometry and I seem to have a difficulty with depth perception. But, normally... I do not screw up my words.

Has anyone else heard of such a thing, or am I just REAL SPECIAL? ;-)

just fooling around Blonde wino. you are welcome on the bi lingual closing been thinking about that all morning really. Most of the people I know in Alpine don't speak good Spanish mostly just Spanglish or espanol de rancho. Some don't even know the months of the year. Most of mine is Spanglish. I am not fluent by any stretch of the imagination.

Yo soy un demócrata amarillo del perro.

yo soy Hussein Horsedooty!

ET-
Don't be so sensitive, she was just teasing about being mad. Dang!

ET...you are special, but not alone. I am embarassed to tell you I still have to think about what is my right or left (except when voting). It is not automatic with me.

Craig...is it possible for the delegates of Michigan and Florida to seat themselves at convention? Since delegates are not bound, is this possible? Howard Dean said these states can re-vote if they pay for it. Shrewd on his part, but not very unifying.

Craig - I like your modest proposal, but speculatin' is half the fun of politickin'

Rez I wuz kidding mate... So what is your profession? How did you and your wife end up in Olytown? Do you financially support KAOS Olympia Community Radio? :-) Once a development director, always a development director.

Ah, it is now starting to become nice and clear. We'll have a do over in Michigan and Florida. Obama is FINALLY questioning Hillary's "experience". And we not only survived the Texas and Ohio primaries, Obama will have made up any lost delegates by the Wyoming and Mississippi elections.

As for Pennsylvania, I have a feeling this is be careful what you wish for time for the Clintons. Instead of a few weeks before a major primary, Obama has seven weeks to not only introduce himself, but to bring the hammer down on Clinton. Watch as he brings back the 90s to remind Pennsylvanians about all of the bad Clinton behavior. And with Clinton's campaign still beating each other up, this time they won't be able to handle it.

Brett Favre is crying. I guess he is having one of those periodic flashes when you lash out at others.

alpha1906...dream on. This is going to come down to convention.

Craig, have you heard any comment from the Clinton campaign on this article?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080305.wharpleak0305/BNStory/National/home

The source of Obama's NAFTA problem also said that the Clinton campaign gave the same assurances to the Canadian government for them to not to take Clinton's posturing on NAFTA too seriously.

I love the way you think Alpha, I was thinking the exact same thing about PA and Penn. What is this thing about Hillary and sleazy fat guys, very greek tragedy stuff.

Ya'll been arguing over HRC and BHO for so long ya'll been forgetting some of the really important and scary stuff, like the US thinking of invading Iran. This could be the first step in this happening. and this is why it is important to have a Dem in the White House asap

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/03/06/the-danger-of-ethics-and-competency-bush-considering-firing-centcom-chief-adm-fallon/

Yo soy un demócrata amarillo del perro.

yo soy Hussein Horsedooty!

ET

"I end up going the opposite direction that I am supposed to go."

I take it you don't get invited to be navigator on European rally drives.

On the FL and MI mess. I think Florida should be seated. Everyone was on the ballot. No one campaigned or advertised (well Obama fudged a little on this one), and the Democratic party had no role in the date set for the primary. That was ordered by the Republican governor just to mess with them.

MI probably should be a revote or an assignment of the uncommitted delegates not given to Sen. Clinton as she was the only one on the ballot. I believe she got 55% while the "uncommitted" got 45% of the vote. It makes sense for Sen. Obama to get them.

rezdog

I think you are right. It doesn't benefit Clinton all that much to seat Florida without a new election and it would benefit the party.

The Michigan issue is completely different and some sort of do over is in order.

HD

It is "why" I would like to see the dream team and HRC should be prez...it would give BHO the experience he needs for the future. I think during their last debate, HRC missed a huge opportunity when discussing Russian politcs. BHO mentioned how GWB looked into Putin's eyes and yada, yada. His implication that GWB was naive. Sort of like him...he is proposing to do the same thing by meeting with certain leaders of the world. She should have nailed him on that.

I am not against BHO and will support the dem nomination as I cannot handle any more years of the repugs in the White House. I just feel he won't make it alone in Novmeber. Who can unite the dems and get the dream team going?

KGC-

i think HRC protestations about FL-Mi are just campaign rhetoric in anticipation of a re-vote. imo

Why get lost in these bunny trails, They will work them out to most everyone's satisfaction prior to Denver. There will never be 100% agreement.

Pa going for Obama....that's what you said about Ohio and Texas...how did that work out for you. Clinton has a great organization in Pa headed up by Ed Rendell and she will prevail.

And reminding people about Bill Clinton...even with all the lies the Obama campaign has told about him he is still the most popular Democratic politician and the population of Pa remembers the good times of the Clinton years...especially as the Shrub economy tanks.

Hey, Brian...you once posted to me that the dem nominaton would not make it to the Pennsylvania vote. You were wrong and now I tell you so.

Rezdog

I think the Florida issue is not for either presidential candidate but for the benefit of other Florida Democrats. The Obama campaign has made a big deal out of down ticket races and suppressing the Florida Democratic vote will hurt congressional races.
I think a good faith action by the National party is in order since the problems here were caused by Republicans. Michigan again is a different story.

BETWEEN THE LINES
Jonathan Alter
Hillary’s New Math Problem

Tuesday's big wins? The delegate calculus just got worse.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/119010/page/1

yeah and some said Romney would be the nominee
where is carnac when you really need him

KGC

I am with you...Pennsylvania will go for HRC. She has won the majority of large states, there is no denying that.

Blonde wino,

I don't discount what you say but none of these candidates live alone and have to make choices without someone doing a briefing. To say he is naive, I think is not looking at how the process is really dealt with. The President does not exist in a vacuum, well, except GWB. Either candidate will be surrounded by multitudes of advisers and consultants, both military and civilian.

Yo soy un demócrata amarillo del perro.

yo soy Hussein Horsedooty!

KGC,

How funny; when i first started posting i was sounding the FL-MI alarm by suggesting how ironic it will be for the dems to be back in the FL Sup Ct in Nov. on an election issue. Most everyone was dismissive except Brian who had the Bobby Ferrin?? take, don't worry. :) I finally came around to that notion.
it seems like years ago but that was just two months back. :-)

Bush on tv for the 5th anniv. of Homeland Security...mentions Joe Liebermann...geez is he a repug or what?

Blonde wino,

here to augment your post is something I found on my web start page. 5 years in DHS is not making its commitments.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23494846

Yo soy un demócrata amarillo del perro.

yo soy Hussein Horsedooty!

HD

very few candidates get elected on their potential advisers or cabinet members. Everyone who posts here is bit more nuanced than the average American...I do not mean that to be negative, but we all seem to care and sometimes know a bit more about the process. I wish civics would still be taught in elementary schools.

Alpha wrote: "Obama is FINALLY questioning Hillary's "experience"."

Yes...his foreign policy adviser...Rice...did a real good job on Tucker questioning his experience by saying: NEITHER ONE OF THEM HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE!

ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha

BRILLIANT!

[the Mccain campaign staff falls to the floor laughing their butts off]

Keep your hopes up about PA but there are not enough African Americans in PA to do him any good and PA population compared to OH is a bit older with higher Latino pop so . . . good luck O'

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120477027688415625.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

I know O' supporters feel that he does better in a place when he starts campaigning there...but...I have a feeling much of his appeal is starting to ware a bit thin. People are seeing him for what he really is (just another politician like the rest of them) and are now making up their minds based on realities and practicalities rather than...well...whatever it is O' offers.

The late breakers broke in a BIG WAY for Hillary in both Ohio and TX. RI wasn't as close as the polls thought it was going to be...and that's after a visit by O' in the final days leading up to the primary.

He's clearly doing a poor job of questioning her experience and all the pundits laughed at him over his bringing up of her Tax returns...is that the best he can do?

I miss Warren...r u out there Warren?

HD(YD y AdelP)

Homeland Security still has that Nazi ring to it...and I really have a concern about Joe Liebermann...he might just show-up as JMc's running mate (I have teased about this on other posts). I know it may sound foolish, but maybe not...strange selections for strange times. Demographics would work for the repugs.

You miss Warren?

WOW! :-)

He did say that he is "very goodlooking" ;-)

ET

Wendy is a true democrat...how could anyone not love her?

Wow, it's March 5th and the Rasmussen poll has HR up by 15 in PA. She can just coast to victory there, no sweat.:)

Why all you Hillary supporters worried? Looks to be a piece of cake in PA anyway.

"The source of Obama's NAFTA problem also said that the Clinton campaign gave the same assurances to the Canadian government for them to not to take Clinton's posturing on NAFTA too seriously."

Yep it was actually in the original television CTV story that O' was busted on.

Clinton campaign said the Canadian government had immunity to name the person they spoke to in her campaign (this was last week when the story initially broke). The only name that came from the Canadian's was...yep...Goolsbee- Obama's guy. They have yet to take the Clinton's up on naming their Clinton source.

Am I naive enough to think politicians don't do this...no...in fact...I bet the Clinton campaign did do it. But Mr. Let's Change Washington and Mr. Government Transperancy is the one that got caught. He set HIMSELF up for this by basing his entire campaign on being a different kind of politician.

ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!

Rezdog

What me worry?

Alfred E. Neuman

"Eliminating unemployment should be our major concern...and we can start by getting rid of the thousands of 'non-workers' on Government payrolls!"

Alfred E. Neuman
July, 1975

Horsedooty!...

"Ya'll been arguing over HRC and BHO for so long ya'll been forgetting some of the really important and scary stuff, like the US thinking of invading Iran."

GWB starts a war with Iran, the American People protest, Martial Law is instituted and elections suspend.

With OIL now going over $106 dollars a barrel though it may come down some and the dollar going for $1.53 to a Euro gas will go over $4 dollars a gallon soon.

If you listened to GWB's endorsement of McCain you heard him say that he still has a lot to do. WAR with Iran?

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

God Bless.

Just read through my last two posts. Clearly I'm feeling mean today. I shouldn't laugh at O' for tripping over his own feet...that's not very nice.

sorry.

Sr. HD, maybe Fallon can ask Shinseki about post pentagon employment!!

Dear Mick, let's see, we've seen how to do this - deny that any conversation occured, deny that any talk about Nafta happened, and when the memo dispproving that is leaked claim we were misquoted. That about right?

"PA Poll: Clinton Gets Big Bounce"

"Last week, Clinton's lead in Pennsylvania according to Rasmussen was just 4 points. Now it's fifteen points"

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/03/pa_poll_clinton_gets_big_bounc.html

Wonder what that's all about?

Brian...I have quit listening to Alter especially after his last opine in Newsweek about HRC dropping out....not very democratic, is he?

And his "math" is precisely what Craig is posting about...so much smoke and mirrors. Reminds me of people who use 'science' to define 'faith.' Faith is the square root of need divided by bliss....that sort of stuff.

"Last week, Clinton's lead in Pennsylvania according to Rasmussen was just 4 points. Now it's fifteen points"

You got it made Wendy! Enough with the campaigning. :-)

Pogo, I guess it all depends on what your definition of "is" is.

Now, Hillary's taking up GWB's tactics of a scaring everyone. In my own hometown. damn!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d1YG_i1PeM

LOL

Afternoon economic news.

Neither hillary nor obama is going to have to deal with the subprime mortgage problem - at this rate no one will have them by next year.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/06/business/06cnd-mortgage.html?hp

And if its current direction is any indication, the Dow will pass 12,000 barrier within a day - unfortunately, it will be going down past it.

AP, of course GWB danced a little before the endoresement - again. He said it was because McCain was late - I think he just needed to pee.

If you have gift cards still unused from Christmas or other events, you better go use them NOW

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080303/ap_on_re_us/bankruptcy_gift_cards

OK Rezdog OK

:-D

but . . . there is something happening in North Carolina as well . . . instead of Hillary having to watch her butt in PA...maybe O' needs to watch his in North Carolina...interesting little trend I'm keeping my eye on.

OK...I'll go to lunch now and leave you all alone.

Rez I've said it frequently, Hillary has a lot in common in with Richard Nixon, she'll stop at nothing to win, it's time for Obama to turn up the heat.

Howard dean said "All they have to do is come before us with rules that fit into what they agreed to a year and a half ago, and then they'll be seated".

He also said "The rules were set a year and a half ago, Florida and Michigan voted for them, then decided that they didn't need to abide by the rules. Well, when you are in a contest you do need to abide by the rules. Everybody has to play by the rules out of respect for both campaigns and the other 48 states."

I don't know how they can come up with something against this. Also Michigan's request for a waiver was denied by a vote of 28-2 back in December 2007.

Rule 11.A. of the Delegate Selection Rules for the 2008 Democratic National Convention states the following:

11. TIMING OF THE DELEGATE SELECTION PROCESS
A. No meetings, caucuses, conventions or primaries which constitute the first determining stage in the presidential nomination process (the date of the primary in primary states, and the date of the first tier caucus in caucus states) may be held prior to the first Tuesday in February or after the second Tuesday in June in the calendar year of the national convention. Provided, however, that the Iowa precinct caucuses may be held no earlier than 22 days before the first Tuesday in February; that the Nevada first-tier caucuses may be held no earlier than 17 days before the first Tuesday in February; that the New Hampshire primary may be held no earlier than 14 days before the first Tuesday in February; and that the South Carolina primary may be held no earlier than 7 days before the first Tuesday in February. In no instance may a state which scheduled delegate selection procedures on or between the first Tuesday in February and the second Tuesday in June 1984 move out of compliance with the provisions of this rule.

Mick (love the new nick), just following the steps of the messiah.

OK OK - just one more

what a drag this will be...

"It’s possible that the Primary season could end with Barack Obama leading in pledged delegates and Hillary Clinton leading in the popular vote. If that happens, the life of a Superdelegate will be far from pleasant."

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

You know my vote...popular vote trumps pledged delegates for superD decision...that is if we're sticking with Obama's "will of the people argument".

OK...now I'm really going to lunch.

NH, Iowa, did get waivers, FL and MI did not. Sorry rules are rules.

"she'll stop at nothing to win, it's time for Obama to turn up the heat."

How fitting, the bomb scare in Olympia WA was with package containing a HRC..NUT cracking doll.. LOL

Vadaryl...thanks for the rules.

Rezdog...maybe we should celebrate the Fiesta of St. Joseph on March 19th this year. I know his statue is buried in many of the the yards with those "For Sale" signs that have been in the ground for over a year. He is the only real estate saint I know of to get us through this mortgage mess.

"You know my vote...popular vote trumps pledged delegates for super D"

Here we go again..let's just stick with the rules.Wendy . it will be a lot easier on all.

I feel sorry for the people in Fl, over 1.4 million people voted. In MI over 300,000. To bad it happened.

If they did a re vote would those same 1.4 million come out and vote again? I guess it depends on where things stand at that time?

Hey KGC,

Didn't predict Obama wins, I said that he just needed to keep them close. Which he did. BTW, better check out the caucus results in Texas before stating who ultimately won the state.

It's funny, but as the Clintons continue to trumpet their "big state wins", they unfortunately do understand that the goal is to collect more delegates. It's like a team going nuts for getting a first down, while their opponent keeps scoring touchdowns. Different goals. One makes the team feel good. The other is a winner. Obama is scoring touchdowns. See ya in Wyoming and Mississippi. Oops, forgot that Clintonites don't think those states count. LOL We'll take those delegates, thank you very much.

BTW, latest Pennsylvania polls, Obama down by only SIX points. She led by over twenty only a few weeks ago.

Vadaryl

As it has been said that the election in November is the dems to lose...they cannot ignore Florida or Michigan. Florida and Michigan vote in November no matter what. And like I said before, if I went to the polls and was allowed to vote, I would think my vote would count. In hindsight, the Florida and Michigan dems should have been turned away when they wanted to vote in the primary. Maybe that would have driven this rule thingie home to the average voter. Really a bad positon for the dems. Like I said, one person, one vote is so much BS.

vadaryl,

See, that's the problem - Iowa held its caucuses 9 days before the rules say it can, New Hampshire held its primary 11 days before the rules allow, and SC held its primary 2 days before the rules allow. Unless they sought and received a waiver, their delegations similarly should not be seated. Howie is only holding FL & MI to the rules. Selectively enforcing the provisions of Rile 11A is a huge problem for the DNC IMHO.

"Riding a victory wave, Democratic Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton raised $4 million online since Tuesday's presidential primary successes in Ohio, Texas and Rhode Island, her campaign said Thursday."

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jYzuxqs7vs3fQLZ25R6J5z8-wM8gD8V83B000

NH did get a waiver.

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2008/chrnothp08/nhdp112907pr.html

"If they did a re vote would those same 1.4 million come out and vote again? I guess it depends on where things stand at that time?"

Daryl , you know the answer that.... if it does happens(re-vote) maybe your candidate does better. Wouldn't that be good?

"He also cited two quotes this week from Obama senior adviser David Axelrod. In one, Axelrod complained to Time magazine, "We still don't have the records from the Clinton library." And on ABC's "This Week" Sunday, he referenced the Whitewater land deal. "I would think that the Clinton campaign would be the last person to be wanting to characterize any real estate transaction as unusual," Axelrod said."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080306/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_obama

News just out. BO campaign took in 55 mil in Feb.

It might be good, but where do you get a 2nd chance

"I would think that the Clinton campaign would be the last person to be wanting to characterize any real estate transaction as unusual,"

yeah how HRC friends were sentenced to prison in that deal? 4?? Good company she keeps.

For a short break from politics here is some nice underwater photography.

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/206

I think you all will like this.

God Bless.

Alph, I posted a link to an Adam Nagourney NYT article that discusses the differing targets of the two camps.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/03/video-trail-mix-webcam-edition.html#comment-47471

What latest polls are you referring to? Maybe provide a link? Rasmussen says 15 today - she was up by 4 a week ago.

http://www.pollster.com/08-PA-Dem-Pres-Primary.php

Blondie, I assume you mean that one person, one vote is not practiced at anylevel of the presidential selection process? :-{)

Have a good day, all. Still a great year to be a democrat. I remember when I actually used to whisper that in the days after the Patriot act.

55 million dollars, we should be seeing quite an air war unfold in Penn.

Rez, buddy, re: Whitewater - I wouldn't go there - Obama's real estate company ain't exactly wearing angels' robes, and remember - Bill & Hillary didn't benefit from that deal.

re: fla and Mi.

Who decided the rules? Are the rules published anywhere?

http://www.democrats.org/a/convention_2008/delegate/

Brian,

Where's Ken Starr, when we really need him?

http://www.democrats.org/page/-/pdf/FINAL2008CalltotheConvention.pdf

Lemmee see, $55 mil - that's about $3.7 mil per point. Yeah, that might be doable.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn.net/e824f455b24c7782dc_jjm6ib44l.pdf

Pogo,

Don't be upset with me, if HRC gets the nom just be prepared for a stroll down memory lane.

It's going to be interesting to see which surrogates Obama ends up using to go negative against Hillary. Bill has been effectively castrated, I wonder who Hillary will be using.

I was wondering if there were rules in place specifically in respect to Florida and Michigan for 2008.

I did not find anything in that doc. from the DNC

and let's not forget that Hillary killed her lesbian lover Vince Foster....

Obama could not have bought his house if Mrs. Rezko didn't agree to buy the lot next door at the same time.
It's not the strip of land she sold him, it was the original deal. His house and the lot had to be sold at the same time.

March - the rules are on the DNC website.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn.net/de68e7b6dfa0743217_hwm6bhyc4.pdf

hey vadaryl - have you got a link to something about the IA & NH waivers? I have gone back to Nov. in the DNC pressers and can't find anything. I could just be overlooking them.

They needed amendments to change their dates. Mi got turned down. Have not found anything about FL.

Bill has been placed on a short leash - that is for sure. Maybe even an electo-shock collar.

Rez, I'm certainly not upset, just perplexed. And I do expect a stroll down memory lane no matter who gets the nomination.

March, FL & MI fall into the general clause of Rule 11 - before the IA, NH, NV & SC bullsh*t.

I bet that real estate transcation was a fairly complex, having everything close on the exact same date - I am sure there were numerous conversations between the various parties involved.

NH waiver http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2008/chrnothp08/nhdp112907pr.html

KGC,
just stick with the sex and drug angles, public loves that. All those Realty deals are too complicated for John Q. to understand. Rezko probably will not be public until next year, when her WH records become available.

Could not find Florida being turned down. I wonder if they even asked for a waiver.

vad, I don't dubt that MI & FL were outside the rules - I'm interested in the waivers that NH & IA got.

Bill Clinton has been a valuable asset to Hillary's campaign. When I have mofre time, I will explain further.

vad, that answers it for NH, and suggests that perhaps SC & IA were similarly granted waivers. Thanks.

Gotta run folks,

Get back to biz... hope to pick up where we left off :-)
As Patsi always reminds me; it's important to raise the level of discourse around here.

OD I'm sure you have better things to do with your time.

Rezdog
you wish
the story is already on Fox and Craig Crawford posted about the facts of the house deal quite a while ago.
Now that the trial is on...it will be part of the story.

It's not hard to understand Obama could not have bought the house unless the Rezko's bought the lot next door. Not complicated at all.

It's also not complicated to understand their are lobbyists all over the Obama campaign as staff etc
and they have solicited the family members of lobbyists to give money. If Obama wants to fling poo
then he is likely to be the one who gets covered in it.

It's all old news about Senator Clinton but it is news about Obama. It turns out he is just another pol with all the same issues. Wonder what Obama told Senator McCaskill he would do about immigration.
To whom is he telling the truth?

for those of you who were too lazy or just didn't care to click the econ news link about foreclosures, here's the worst news in the article.

"Defaults were highest on adjustable-rate mortgages, those that start with lower fixed interest rates at first but reset to higher, variable rates after a few years. While many of the loans made to people with blemished, or subprime, credit were past due or in foreclosure, the number of prime adjustable-rate loans also rose rapidly to 8.1 percent from 4.3 percent in December 2006.

Douglas Duncan, the chief economist for the Mortgage Bankers, said the rates would probably rise further for much of this year as house prices fall further and banks and investors remain unwilling to lend and buy mortgage securities.

“We don’t expect to see the peak in delinquencies and foreclosure until mid- to late 2008,” he said in a conference call."

Remember that one of the accomplishments that Dumya keeps touting as evidence of the strength of the economy and the effectiveness of his economic policy is record home ownership levels. Wonder whether that will be the case by the time the foreclosure problem peaks?

"OD I'm sure you have better things to do with your time."

OD I really don't want to hear it.

(LOL - just correcting Brian's typo)

FDIC is adding additional staff in anticipation of bank failures. The commercial real estate loans are the likely cause.

pogo
i have done some research and found something that all bloggers and reporters wont report........there were 5 states who broke DNC rules and only 2 are being punished.....the 5 states are IOWA, NH, SOUTH CAROLINA, FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN ....all 5 broke the DNC rules by moving and changing their primaries,,,,, why hasnt anyone brought this out

Pardon me, but aren't we told by the RW mouthpieces that the main problems with energy in the US are (1) lack of refining capacity and (2) not punching holes in ANWR? If that's so, what good is OPEC upping production of crude going to have?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/06/business/worldbusiness/06oil.html?em&ex=1204952400&en=dcc9704a99b1ece3&ei=5087%0A

What a thrill for the Clintonista to have Ann Coulter on your side, shrews of a feather do flock together I guess.

The Machinery of Hope
Inside the grass-roots field operation of Barack Obama, who is transforming the way political campaigns are run

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/19106326

zumper, it's been brought out - at least NH obtained a waiver of the rules - sounds from the NHDP presser that IA & SC were also considered, although it doesn't say they were granted. I couldn't find anything on the DNC website to determine one way or the other. Since the Clinton camp hasn't raised those states as issues, and Obama netted 13 delegates over Clinton in them, I assume they got waivers. Actually, NV broke the rules, too, by 2 days.

I'm sure Obama is proud of his support from the gun nuts and people who want closed borders and to deport all undocumented workers --such as Senator McCaskill. Plus the majority of democratic senators who voted to support the Shrub position on FISA are obama supporters, Why didn't he talk to them and bring them around...

The only reason Coulter expresses support for a Democrat is this:

"
146Home | Politics | Ross Kaminsky146
CommentsCan You Support McCain?
by Ross Kaminsky

Posted: 02/29/2008 Print This
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As American voters see Barack Obama finally forced to put a bit of meat on the thin bones of his platform of “hope and change,” Republicans in particular have a stark choice before us. We can go with Ann Coulter’s position: Republicans should vote for the Democrat so that the ensuing disaster will be blamed on Democrats (whereas a disaster under McCain will be blamed on Republicans.) Or we can go with Michael Reagan’s view: Republicans must support McCain because “the alternative is unthinkable to anyone who loves this nation.”

It has nothing to do with anything else.

Brian, she is campaigning against McCain because he's not a conservative in her mind, not for Clinton because she supports her. After your Soros comment earlier today channelling Hannity, I wonder whether you're not really a repug in dem clothing. (just kidding - I know you're just an Obama convert trying to pee on Clinton at every opportunity)

Obama is just the generation of internet campaigns after Dean. If the media weren't in the tank for Bush in 2004 --Dean would have been Obama.

There is nothing new about what he is doing.
David Axelrod is slime personified.

Craig you are right again.
I am wondering what happen to the article on aol that pictured obama's grandmother, upset that her grandson was being treated badly. I saw it before I went to school this morning now it is not there?
She is in Kenya and said people were not being nice to her grandson. Very interesting.
I went to the democratic meeting last night, my first.
We out voted rep. 15000 to 13000 and this is a republican county. Hillary also all by 5 counties, I think it was.
Thank you Katherine I agree.

KC you can spin till your feet bore through the floor,, nothing trumps Coulter going on the tube explaining why she's supporting Hillary. I think we should give Ann an attaboy!

carol, was your wardrobe appropriate? :-{)