"If Obama is throwing all of this money and influence at her and has not been able to put her away what make you think he will be able to defeat John Mc Cain in the fall. His core supporters are not going to vote for Obama, And I don't care who the nominee the dems end up with the repub's will fall in line just like they always do. If you think anything else you are dreaming."
Wrong. I am not couting on McCain's core supporters in the general. I am counting on Obama getting a very high percentage of HRC's supporters.
The record turn outs in the Democratic primaries - as well as Obama's ability to excel in open primaries - make me believe that Obama can get enough votes to beat McCain - who has less support of the Republican base than you may imagine.
And I can turn your argument back around on you: If Hillary is losing in the primaries - what makes you think it will be any different in the general. The primary has exposed HRC's weakness among white men and has shown she is weak across all demographics in the South.
Exit polls show she is strong on "experience" - but common sense dicates McCain beats everyone in this category, especially on issues of National Security. So I would rather put my money on change - to go against McCain.
"And if you think she has been nasty you haven't seen anything yet."
I actually think HRC has a pretty effective attack machine - plus - I don't buy into the "you just wait and see" argument.
Sorry about not responding to the numbers question, warren - I had a meeting I had to attend. Since every assumption I've used has been rejected as sophistry by you, why not just tell me what the voter splits will turn out to be in MI, FL and the remaining contests except PA and then I can respond.
Snark aside, I was using the numbers you provided, included FL, used the MI number of 150 that you (generously) suggested, assumed an even split for the remaining voters, and just ran the math. I thought it was pretty simple. For an easier analysis, just forget the remaining voters - the math is the same.
407 (current D w/FL) - 150 (MI per warren) = 257 (all in thousands)
In 1998, conservative activist Tim Eyman launched Initiative 200, which attempted to prohibit affirmative action. The campaign was soon handed over to Carlson, who took over. The initiative received enough signatures to earn a place on the ballot, and in November of 1998, voters approved it.
Time on Her Side: Obama Maintains Lead, but Clinton Might Have the Edge
"The Clinton campaign plans to use the coming six-week gap in primary voting to aggressively push its case that Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., lacks the necessary experience to be president as the superdelegates loom by far as the most important voters in the race.
After Obama's Tuesday win in Mississippi, the strategy of defining the Illinois senator while the delegate count stays essentially frozen reflects a belief by Sen. Hillary Clinton's campaign advisers — after withstanding perhaps the roughest month of Clinton's presidential campaign — that the New York senator now has a powerful ally on her side: time. "
Obama has demonstrated that he has transcended the race issue with White voters. I suspect that the numbers are visible when you look at how well he does amongst the wealthy and well educated segment of the population.
Many of these older Democrats, and Ferraro is indicative of the group, vividly remember Archie Bunker, what the times that created that line of thinking were like.
For many older people, black folks belong on stage, on the pulpit, on a sports field or serving them in some capacity, but not in a position of power.
Malcolm X had a great quote when he was debating at Oxford... where he held up the US to the mirror of apartheid and concluded that at least the South African's were open and honest about their beliefs.
The remaining states especiall Pa,Indiana, Ky and WV favor Clinton. She will do well in Oregon as well looks at the difference between the Washngton State vote and caucus. And PR changes it's -practice to include more voter participation all favor Clinton.
On what do you base your argument the final states favor Obama.
An of course the Mulligan stew of Michigan and Florida.
ps
I 'm a big fan of the Video Trail Mix. How do you send a link for the particular trail mix to somone?
Bear, I don't know who you categorize as older people, but...
You may be right if you are talking from the point of view of black people; I have no real idea how that part of our population feels, and wouldn't be so bold as to conjure a generalization.
From my point of view as an older white male, I think many of us have seen black people in genuine positions of leadership. My background is primarily in the military. I served directly under Gen Powell. Lt Gen Benjamin O Davis, Jr. was my commander while I was in Korea during the Pueblo Crisis back in 1968. I never met the man, but I, and the people I served with, sure knew who we was, and we were darned proud to have him as our commander. And there was our first sergeant in Vietnam, a man who had served in the segregated Army during WW-II. He had our unbounded admiration. You get the point.
People in every field came name their own heroes.
I for one would be perfectly willing to have any of the above people as an elected official responsible for the safety and nurturing of me and my family.
The recent debate on this site and some other issues have led me to revisit some of the words of Malcolm X. I am fascinated by the idea of him being a public figure in this day and age. He had some quotes that would be of significant importance now...
"You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it."
"If you've studied the captives being caught by the American soldiers in South Vietnam, you'll find that these guerrillas are young people. Some of them are just children and some haven't reached their teens. Most are teenagers. It is the teenagers abroad, all over the world, who are actually involving themselves in the struggle to eliminate oppression and exploitation. In the Congo, the refugees point out that many of the Congolese revolutionaries, they shoot all the way down to seven years old - that's been reported in the press. Because the revolutionaries are children, young people. In these countries, the young people are the ones who most quickly identify with the struggle and the necessity to eliminate the evil conditions that exist. And here in this country, it has been my own observation that when you get into a conversation on racism and discrimination and segregation, you will find young people more incensed over it - they feel more filled with an urge to eliminate it."
I think my cut off point for who I consider old in that statement is anyone who remembers All in the Family, bussing, the 70's etc. I find that people who didn't see Archie Bunker on CBS can never grasp the genius behind it and thus don't fall into the view I was describing...
Another quote...
"But it does make the black people in this country who are jobless and unemployed and standing in the welfare line very much discouraged to see a government that can't solve our problem, can't provide job opportunities for us, and at the same time not only Cubans but Hungarians and every other type of white refugee imaginable can come to this country and get everything this government has to offer."
"For many older people, black folks belong on stage, on the pulpit, on a sports field or serving them in some capacity, but not in a position of power."
Bear, I think you may be the one working from an older prototype. Most of the people I know that you would call "older" have had extensive relationships with people of color that we respect as friends, neighbors, work associates, and heros.
In fact we are so comfortable that we actually know we can disapprove of someone of color on their own flaws without letting that attitude spill over on to others. I leave the "White Guilt" to those less comfortable with their associations.
I know that prejudice exists, that is is a deep poison in our society, and that it can rear its ugly head at any time. I don't believe that the majority of those supporting Sen Clinton because she represents our ideals and goals are among those people
Well, then there's this - to avoid forgetting the remaining voters - if we only go by polls, of the remaining races, 5 have polls posted at USAElectionPolls.com or Pollster.com. Hillary is ahead in 3 of the 5 - PA 19pts, WV 21 pts., OR - 11 pts. BO is ahead in 2 - IN 15 pts, NC 8 pts. If those states vote in numbers similar to states of comparable size and those margins held, the popular vote would be very close to dead even. But if there is one thing we know, this all will change. All this means nothing, but it's fun noodling it.
I doubt that her fire will be trained on McCain - she isn't running against him, and if recent history teaches us anything, we shouldn't expect the remainder of the campaign to be positive - from either side.
I don't believe that the majority of Clintonite racist. I DO believe that the Clinton campaign since SC has used the same tactics that would have made Lee Atwater proud. And that taps into the prejudices of people which makes people vote not for something, but against something. White, working class Americans have more in common with black working class Americans than any other group.
But any white politician worth their salt (since the Civil War by the way) knows that if you pit white versus black, then they'll win the white vote. In other words, they can convince white voters to vote against their own interest in order to preserve the value of whiteness. Ever wonder how poor whites can vote Republican, when it makes absolutely no sense economically for them to protect the wealth of big cat Republicans? All you have to do is argue that the concerns of African Americans are contrasts to the concerns of whites and portray yourself as being a friend of their interests and voila, you have Geraldine Ferraro saying that the African American candidate is undeserving versus the white candidate.
Someone asked a question, I provided an answer. Other people referred to older white Democrats who would not vote for a black man. Geraldine Ferraro can seemingly fall into that place as well. I was speculating on where that group of people may be.
I never once referred to white guilt. That's their problem, not mine. I am intentionally not making any judgments or assertions to that point, about any Clinton supporters.
If you use today's standard of trying people in the media instead of a court of law, remember that those who act guilty typically are guilty, until the facts come out...
With regards to your 4:08 post, I would agree he was at the most peace, but it was not his most productive period, unless you are judging strictly upon the criteria of personal growth and even then it's up to debate. I was amazed to learn again that he was on a prison debate team and was very successful against debate teams from Harvard and MIT.
It's the ultimate chicken and egg argument...which is the greater accomplishment...
A. Getting to where you ultimately wanting to be...
of
B. Successfully navigate the road that leads there?
ah pogo bin agogo, but the state party and DNC are closer to agreement than the candidates are, which might matter more. Fla Dems are planning to submit plan to DNC tomorrow
"I DO believe that the Clinton campaign since SC has used the same tactics that would have made Lee Atwater proud."
Alpha,
This is my problem. Have they done this or just been accused of this? Believe me, they haven't come anywhere close to the crud that Lee Atwater pulled. Exactly what actions of the Clinton campaign do you believe were racist, and what of those actions are you naming from observation as opposed to reports?
The Jesuits love argumentation from proof so take a good hard look at what you are considering "proof" and what is either third party rumor or supposition?
"I think my cut off point for who I consider old in that statement is anyone who remembers All in the Family, bussing, the 70's etc. I find that people who didn't see Archie Bunker on CBS can never grasp the genius behind it and thus don't fall into the view I was describing..."
See, alpha, GF didn't say that any more than she said she wasn't deserving in '84. Of course this does point out the primary problem with racial politics - nothing is fairly judged on its merits, whether it be a candidate or a comment.
I thought Obama said they would abide by whatever the DNC decided and the candddates shouldn't be a party t the negotiations.
""That report was not accurate," he said. "We have abided by the DNC rules to this date and will continue to abide by them. So, if there is a remedy that the DNC and state parties agree to, that meets the rules ... we will abide by those."
But Plouffe said he does not think the two campaigns should be involved with the negotiations.
"I would agree he was at the most peace, but it was not his most productive period"
It was his period of most dramatic personal change. Who knows how productive, for his life was cut short.
For, El Hajj Malik Shabazz, his greatest danger wasn't from the whites, he loudly denounced as Malcom X, but from his black brothers.
This is true for many of us.
Well, I posted here and at a few other blogs my imaginary headline upon hearing the Spitzer mess two days ago.
"The Emperor had no Clothes"
Today, I see Jason at the NY Observer leads with that headline on their front page.
Don't know if copyrighting would have helped...LOL
This election may well end up to be about race which is why I got so enraged when the Obama camp played that card. I could post you a dozen racial spins including the brilliant line that Obama will get change past the Republicans like "busting the doors of segregation wide open".
I predicted voting would start to split along racial lines and that Black Hillary supporters would come under fire. I guess Obama's campaign was really the high road and a new kind of tact. Yeah, really new.
First it was Republican Lite and untrustworthiness and then Michelle's race attack on Bill. A completely bad move. And then there's the love Mass feels for Duval, who beat Obama to most of his lines. Go ahead, try to beat McCain by messing with Florida and Michigan, playing race, trashing the Clintons and ignoring that the majority of Democrats have voted for Hillary included the big States McCain has a chance at should Obama run. Only the Democrats could be so inept poltically. Maybe they have learned to apply Iraqi incompetence to their partisan strategy and now shoot themselves in the foot.
" I was amazed to learn again that he was on a prison debate team and was very successful against debate teams from Harvard and MIT."
Bear, He was an amazing man. Few have the ability and brains to totally turn their lives around. If you don't have it bookmarked, you might like this page with books both by and about him as well as some excellent videos
"Geraldine Ferraro stood by her controversial comments about Sen. Barack Obama's presidential candidacy today.
She declined to apologize directly for the firestorm she created when she told a newspaper last week that "if Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position." ... ..
Obama's got another problem that's bigger than Ferraro, especially given last night's numbers. Via TNR:
Ferraro's original statement to Daily Breeze, which suggested that Obama has gotten preferential political treatment because of his race, was a dog-whistle to white voters who resent affirmative action. (Her subsequent statement to the New York Times, in which she defiantly defended herself by proclaiming "I will not be discriminated against because I’m white," wasn't a dog whistle. It was a huge, screeching megaphone.) Dwelling on that probably won't help the Obama campaign in Pennsylavnia (sic), particularly given the racial voting patterns yesterday's Mississippi result confirmed. "
I think the reason we may be seeing these candidates from opposite polls is that I genuinely believe that Hillary Clinton would be able to accomplish more for the AA community just as she has done all her life. She has the contacts, the groups, and the wherewithal to be more successful. Yes Senator Obama has a background in Community action, but not nearly the time in service building organizations and contacts.
As I've stated repeatedly, I believe Sen Obama has many wonderful qualities and abilities. I do not believe he is ready fo the top of the totem pole. In fact I'll take it one step farther, my main reason for wanting the "dream team" is to not shut out his supporters while giving him time to develop not because I believe he is ready on "day one". I would have more faith in his candidacy if he had at least served one full term in the senate building national and international coalitions.
The way this is playing out is so distasteful, maybe because no one can be themselves anymore, and every move is ultra-contrived. NO one can make a mistake without being held to the fire. You would think that rational people would be able to look beyond the microscope to see the human elements and qualities in a person, and people who support that person, but no...no chance, in the end there must be carnage.
Suit yourself Clintonites. Just remember - this is politics.
And if Obama's supporters or the media - make nasty and sexist remarks - don't blame Obama. Especially since it now appears I will have to make it my mission to destroy your candidate and anyone who gets in my way.
We tried doing this the easy way...but you just wouldn't listen.
Just kidding folks. I don't think it will get so nasty. Things will calm down with no contests between now and PA. Of course It will reach an absolute boiling point before PA - and people will swear that they will never visit this blog again and would never think of voting for the other's candidate.
But after the concession speech (whoever that may be ; ) we will all dust ourselves off and go after the Rebpulicans like a bunch of rapid Clintonites.
On one of the Sunday shows, Howard Dean did say he would seek a Florida/Michigan solution that would be acceptable to both candidates.
That was probably too much to hope for. He probably should have just committed to making sure both campaigns would have a voice in, or be aware of , the discussions.
Obama himself saying they would do whatever the DNC said. (except seat the delegations as they are)
But he left out all the over caveats they are now introducing. It looks like they have had their bluff called. Obama does not want Michigan and Florida to count at all.
Believe it or not Jamie the world doesn't revolve around you. What's your problem with "Judgement To Lead"? your candidate opened up the door and it's been responded too.
He isn't poking fun at Clinton supporters. He is dumbing down his message to speak to the "less educated" demographic which hasn't voted for him.
On a different note, if you aren't familiar with ESPN.com's Bill Simmons, he is a columnist and one of the best writers in America today...his column today is especially poingnant
Dear Hillary –
I am stepping down from your finance committee so I can speak for myself and you can continue to speak for yourself about what is at stake in this campaign.
The Obama campaign is attacking me to hurt you.
I won't let that happen.
Thank you for everything you have done and continue to do to make this a better world for my children and grandchildren.
The story of his death just made me ill. Too many beautiful young people dying for no reason. That is the crime of our time.
I can actually remember a time in LA when I would have walked alone in a "dangerous" neighborhood knowing that the worst that would happen would possibly being robbed, and people would have poured out of their houses to help me. (Just to be honest, I wouldn't have done it at night without a group of friends around me who possessed a good dosage of melanin)
Now the drugs and the gangs bring such horror to the people who live in those areas. There aren't any answers to this except to keep trying to make changes and save these children.
Here is a very enlightening article about Mukasey and his influence on sentencing guidelines regarding crack cocaine offenses. Prisons bursting (one of every nine African American men between 20 and 24 years of age is incarcerated as I type)
Mukasey is same-old -same old...has Senator Obama weighed in on this critical issue? Would he allow a Justice Department to keep one of nine African Americans imprisoned for long terms when many could be rehabbed or at least offered another chance at free life instead of rotting away in overcrowded prisons? Or is Obama all "Law and Order", and approving of do-nothing Mukasey-tactics?
Could we please keep a few things in mind. First the republicans in Fl decided to change the primary date not the DNC, but they penalized them.
Second, Obama got most of his delegates from Caucuses where many times less than 10000 people voted. Is this democratic?? I think NOT!
Third, if you count the delegates by told number in the states won as opposed to dividing them. Hillary has the most. Now what does that tell you. DUH!
Go Hillary
Obama maintains a slight edge over his Democratic rival, with $181,000 in Big Pharma donations through Jan. 31, compared with Clinton's $174,000, according to the center. McCain is far behind with $44,000.
You can't punish one candidate because a particular contest had minimal turnout. Voters are lazy and if one does a better job motivating their base than so be it.
A stopped clock is right twice a day. I fear people on all sides will waste a lot of energy trying to get the time to match their stalled time piece instead of figuring out how to wind it or change the battery.
Thomas Jefferson
A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.
"Every man cannot have his way in all things. If his opinion prevails at some times, he should acquiesce on seeing that of others preponderate at other times. Without this mutual disposition we are disjointed individuals, but not a society." -- Thomas Jefferson to J. Dickinson, 1801.
Why do people who don't live in my neighborhood want to release all those drug dealing gang members back into my neighborhood.
I would agree if Mr Taylor would find a place for them in his neighborhood.
I know several of them and I say keep their sorry butts behind bars, we don't need them.
Why are the obama people afraid of the Mi.&Fla vote.If they are so sure they are going to win the nomination then they should welcome the chance to win in these states.If they can't win by counting all the states then they don't deserve the nomination.In Nov. all the states will be in pkay and he can't afford to alienate any of them
I wonder if Jefferson was using a crystal ball when he offered these quotes:
“He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors”
“I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us that the less we use our power the greater it will be.”
“An injured friend is the bitterest of foes.”
"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country."
With FL and MI they should require the last four digits of your social security number OR your driver's license number for mail in voting. That is what we do in Ohio (yes, I know...but there is the dumb factor here). Forget the first vote in MI and FL. That was against all the rules and just start over. Using the above criteria SHOULD eliminate fraud unless you have people going around collecting driver's license numbers from others and voting. Couldn't you see Rush Limbaugh doing that and voting for Hilliary to ensure she would win to run against the R's? That's exactly what they want. And, WE lose again!!! You know, there is a record of that.
Max,
The race card;
I'm slow sometimes, help me if you will !
I see much ado about who brought up the race card first..etc.
Now I'm assuming that BO would bring it up in some sort of an effort to seek sympathy for being attacked inappropriately. What else? How would this help, to bring up an issue he's been trying to 'transcend'"?
I can see HRC bringing it up to try and polarize the voters and prey on racial prejudices. So it could be be helpful to her.
So what am i missing. Why would BO want to talk about race? TIA
"Why are the obama people afraid of the Mi.&Fla vote.If they are so sure they are going to win the nomination then they should welcome the chance to win in these states.If they can't win by counting all the states then they don't deserve the nomination.In Nov. all the states will be in pkay and he can't afford to alienate any of them"
He wasn't getting any of the black vote and needed to turn the black community to his favor. Who can forget Mrs. Obama saying the black community will wake up and support my husband. A number of people suggested they only switched because of the Clinton's racist remarks Remember Senator Obama's campaign wrote a memo for distribution in SC
detailing why Senator Clinton and her huband are racists. He needed to give the black community a reason to turn on Senator Clinton.
I was talking about what he did to get the black vote
in general since that was your question.
He needed to get th black vote and he wasn't getting it.
The only way was to paint the Clinton's as racists with the help of a willing media. were able to do it.
And, according to the tenor of the piece, i.e. Money Magazine, I’d say it favors the Repugs more. You know (or did you not) that they want HRC as their candidate!!!
So apparently based on this new MSNBC poll that's going to be released later tonight Obama has a much better chance at uniting the party than Hillary. I guess that's what happens when one candidate runs a hope based campaign and the other runs a fear based campaign. Is there anything Hillary can get right?
"when Hillary was voting against Cheney’s Energy Bill?
Barack Obama voted Aye on the committee reports.
Barack Obama voted Aye on the conference report.
Barack Obama voted Aye for the 2005 giveaway to the Oil and Gas Industry"
"I agree itj you. But the Obama supporters keep churning out the same old stuff and keeping the story alive. This fom Kevin Drumm at Washington Monthly
an Obama supporter.
"But the accusations of racism haven't. They've just gotten more ridiculous. Last week a commenter at Daily Kos claimed that the Clinton campaign had concocted an ad that deliberately darkened Obama's face (to make him scarier) and changed the image's aspect ratio (to make his nose broader). They hadn't. After a 60 Minutes appearance, Hillary got slammed for supposedly implying the Obama might be a Muslim. As Eric Boehlert points out, this is patently absurd. Then, a couple of days ago, a legion of bloggers started locking onto the inane meme that talk of Obama as Hillary's VP was like asking him to "ride in the back of the bus." Finally, today, Orlando Patterson, in an apparent attempt to make parody obsolete, writes that when he saw Hillary's "3 am" ad, "I couldn't help but think of D. W. Griffith's 'Birth of a Nation,' the racist movie epic that helped revive the Ku Klux Klan, with its portrayal of black men lurking in the bushes around white society." Hell, even I fell for the racism meme a couple of weeks ago, getting suckered into passing along a Drudge slander about Hillary's campaign supposedly circulating a photo of Obama in "Muslim" garb http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_03/013304.php
Saw lots of good quotes and references to Malcolm X on today's thread. Below is another classic. But I'm not sure the basic philosophy of Malcolm X really dovetails very neatly with Obama's personal and political history, not to mention what is supposedly the core message of his campaign, not to mention the spirit of unity with which he is attracting upper-income white voters.
"If I have a cup of coffee that is too strong for me because it is too black, I weaken it by pouring cream into it. I integrate it with cream. If I keep pouring enough cream in the coffee, pretty soon the entire flavor of the coffee is changed; the very nature of the coffee is changed. If enough cream is poured in, eventually you don't even know that I had coffee in this cup. This is what happened with the March on Washington. The whites didn't integrate it; they infiltrated it. Whites joined it; they engulfed it; they became so much a part of it, it lost its original flavor. It ceased to be a black march; it ceased to be militant; it ceased to be angry; it ceased to be impatient. In fact, it ceased to be a march."
Interesting, since I got home from school, the TV media has been showing Obama's comments, all negative. Thought he does go negative. She will take PA big time. I was right on TX and Ohio and RI, but then I am always right, I am a woman. hahahaha
"I am woman hear me roar". YES!!!
Go Hillary!
You know Obama is such a idiot. Just take a minute and listen, unbias, and acturally hear his words.
Obama is becoming obsessed with Hillary because he knows his time is ending soon.
I think someone told him he would really win, whoever is backing him.
Gerry just stated the facts, it was not racist. Obama wants to make it racist. It is is racist it make it poor Obama. I am getting so sick of this!
No matter what, I think we can all agree that Howard Dean is a lousy leader of the dem party. Is it arrogance? Look what arrogance did for Spitzer (rule 11).
Some of the Obama supporters need to stop "spinning" and just look at what is happening. The Obama campaign has done great damage to the Dem Party. Don't confuse this phase with what will occur in the GE.
Michelle Benard hit the nail right on the head, it's not what Ferraro said it's the anger with which she said it.
We've seen this since it came down to the the two of the, the sense of contempt, disdain, and belittlement shown for Obama by the Hillary folk. Just look at the way the Clintonista talk about Obama here, same thing, just a smaller platform.
Your Hillary insanity never sees to amaze me. I bet you keep a stack of loose leaf papers in a folder under your arm. You call Taylor Marsh on speed dial while wearing a fisherman's hat with "Hillary For President" buttons in eight languages. I gotta give it to you. You're consistent with your madness for Hillary.
Some of you seem intent on making Gerry Ferraro's words say something she did not intend..
Barack Obama in his usual self-righteousness attacked Ferroro, someone who has fought for Democratic party principles long before Mr;. Obama began talking about them.
Barqack Obama appears to the pushing the race issue in this campaign. Quite a disgrace...
OD the road to hell is paved with good intentions. You can quote me on that. I wonder why Ferraro even went there in the first place. Another point where Ferraro is wrong she tries to liken her candidacy to Obama's, she's wrong. She was PICKED because she's a woman. Obama earned his place at the table by putting together one of the finest machines in recent history, he's raised more move, won more states, won more votes, and won more delegates. Ferraro was picked for window dressing by a candidate who knew he didn't have a snow ball's chance in hell of winning.
Alpha, glad you're online. Just for the sake of discussion, three simple questions for the record:
1. Had you even heard of Barack Obama before Keynote '04?
2. Do you actually believe that in the reductionist political reality that is created and defined by what we call "the national news media", that a white politician of limited experience giving that very same speech, word for word, would have been fussed over and vauled to celebrity status as was Obama?
3. Do you believe that race has NOTHING to do with any of that?
If you or any other Obama supporters on this board can honestly answer anything but "No. No. No." to those three questions, then I guess no one owes Geraldine Ferraro an apology for calling her a racist.
I saw up above that you were excited about being right about HRC winning TX, OH and RI. That's akin to the US military celebrating a win over Grenada...
I don't remember if it was Craig, Peter Beinart, it may have been Tweety on the Morning Joe show, who point this out on MSNBC within the last week, but whomever it was referred back to an internal memo from the Obama campaign that went over each primary and caucus, predicting the outcome in each state. They were startled at how accurate their projections were. Their biggest miss was that they gave Clinton Maine. This memo was from some time in January.
To me it shows another example of how well organized the Obama campaign has been compared to the Clinton campaign.
Putting all allegiances to any candidate aside, it is disturbing that people cannot conclude that Obama has run one of the best presidential campaigns in history and that Clinton has run one of the worst.
What is that expression about never seeing how sausage is made? The way the Clinton campaign has been run has been disheartening because I am realized how my idealized picture of them was a bit romanticized I guess... that is more depressing than seeing McCain win in November.
Yes, Brian, I am sure the peeps of Florida and Michigan really feel Dean has helped at the state level. I know like to disagree...step out of your cement once in awhile.
wino you're just joining the Clinton chorus of we don't your stinkin rules. Florida and MI both know they were courting trouble. If it were up to me I'd leave them out completely, but being a reasonable man I'm cool with a redo for both states.
Blonde...don't fret too much about Brian. Last time I got naked with him, he had an "Edwards '08" tramp-stamp tattooed on his lower back. Now he's got "Obama" tattoed on his right butt cheek.
But I'm sure he'll come around for the general, and save his left butt cheek for Hillary.
I think that this is more aptly entitled Democrats Go To Hell. I seriously doubt that the democratic party will ever be the same. I expect that there will be a significant number that permanately leave, some become unenrolled like I did years ago, others give up on politics and some even become Republicans.
Because the democratic controlled congress has been so inept and top it off with one of the most devisive primary campaigns, people will be completly turned off by whomever ends up with the nomination. Leaving a very nice opening for Senator McCAin. The acrimony on this bolg between the supporters of Clinton and Obama leads me to believe that it will be impossible to mend the party. I've never seen it this nasty, especially between people that essentially agree on the political solutions to the problems facing our country. How ironic.
Three people upset that a news crew was reporting on the arrest of a relative attacked the television reporter and yelled racial slurs at her and a photographer, authorities said Tuesday.
The family members, all white, began yelling and charged at black WSPA-TV reporter Charmayne Brown while she was standing in the street near the family's home in Union, said news director Alex Bongiorno.
Ann Curry was the host and the guest was Geraldine Ferraro. Curry tried to beat her up over her remarks in re the Obama candidacy. Tried to get Ferraro to admit that she was nothing more than a racist.
Ferraro turned around and, figuratively, kicked her in the groan and said no way in hell is she going to say that. It's Axelrod and his henchmen who are running the racist campaign and that her, and Hillary's, hands are clean.
The conversation degenerated from there.
Bet that's the last time they do a live interview when they're not sure what the guest was going to say.
I just LOVE it when white politicians who are being mau-maued don't follow the script of abject apology, followed by permanent banishment from the island of political correctness.
All I can say to Harry's comment about Obama playing the race card to get the AA vote is crazy and way I believe it to be.
If Obama was the one playing the race card then he is failing. While it's true he got 91 to 92% of the AA vote, but Hillary got 76% of the White vote.
So let me clarify this. The vote in the Primaries split along racial lines, but lets look at those White votes.
Obama took 26% of the White vote which was made up from Democrats, Republicans and Independents.
Hillary's 70% was like wise made up of Democrats, Republicans and Independents.
So how do these break down. Well 75% was Republicans while Obama had 25% Crossovers.
Hillary took 43% Independents while Obama got 53% of Independents. And 30% Democrats.
Hillary only received 30% of the Democratic votes. Now if we look at the AA vote for her it was only 8%.
This means that since she got 37% of the vote total 12% came from Registered Democrats, 8% from Independents and the remaining 15% from Republicans.
I highly doubt that of those 75% of crossover Republicans voted for her because they support her. More likely they voted for her since they feel she would be easier to beat in the General Election.
While the 25% of Republicans who voted for Obama would actually vote for him as well as the 53% of Independents.
So if he played the race card for the AA vote one would think that no White would ever think of voting for a AA than its not working.
A large percentage of her vote was White Republicans who will not vote for her in November. Also since I'm White it will not stop me from voting for Obama in November so I guess he didn't scare me about having an African American, Black Man or Bi-Racial man as my President.
for Lewis Black aficianados he has a show on the comedy channel tonight where he skewers Oprah and the catholic church.......10:30 eastern, right after South Park.
“You know Obama is such a idiot. Just take a minute and listen, unbias, and acturally hear his words.”
Yes, I hear his words. They are of intelligence, not yelling rhetoric. If you think Obama’s words are idiotic, then for sure you must be an idiot. God, these Clintonistas (as Brian calls them). The Clintons and Bushes are the closest thing we’ve ever had in this country that comes close to Hitlerism. Anything for power. God, I hate the bastards and all those associated with them. You watch. Mark my word…for sure. If the witch is running (and without Obama) she tanks us for bomb, bomb, bomb Iran. ANYTHING, ANYTHING FOR POWER. That’s the Clintons.
And to think I was one of some who had breakfast with b*tch Ferraro and a cookout with McGovern (God, talk about a boring man). Hey, wonder if that idiot, Ferraro, wants the VP position? Now that's a losing position.
Yes, with the Clintons, the Democrats are going to Hell because they will die before losing any power (you know, they will lose power in their cold, dead hands). Isn't it ironic that their own ex-press secretary said almost the same thing. She knows them!!!!
"I just LOVE it when white politicians who are being mau-maued don't follow the script of abject apology, followed by permanent banishment from the island of political correctness."
I agree. This is now absurd.
What the hell will Obama do if he gets called out by a world leader? Cry racism?
And the reason I'm saying that is -- I heard his surrogates using that SAME sort of comment about Hillary. Will she cry if someone on the world stage upsets her?
Comments
First? woo
Posted by: EuroTom
| March 12, 2008 3:06 PM
Hillary 2008
Posted by: EuroTom
| March 12, 2008 3:07 PM
"If Obama is throwing all of this money and influence at her and has not been able to put her away what make you think he will be able to defeat John Mc Cain in the fall. His core supporters are not going to vote for Obama, And I don't care who the nominee the dems end up with the repub's will fall in line just like they always do. If you think anything else you are dreaming."
Wrong. I am not couting on McCain's core supporters in the general. I am counting on Obama getting a very high percentage of HRC's supporters.
The record turn outs in the Democratic primaries - as well as Obama's ability to excel in open primaries - make me believe that Obama can get enough votes to beat McCain - who has less support of the Republican base than you may imagine.
And I can turn your argument back around on you: If Hillary is losing in the primaries - what makes you think it will be any different in the general. The primary has exposed HRC's weakness among white men and has shown she is weak across all demographics in the South.
Exit polls show she is strong on "experience" - but common sense dicates McCain beats everyone in this category, especially on issues of National Security. So I would rather put my money on change - to go against McCain.
"And if you think she has been nasty you haven't seen anything yet."
I actually think HRC has a pretty effective attack machine - plus - I don't buy into the "you just wait and see" argument.
Posted by: warren | March 12, 2008 3:13 PM
The beginning of the end for the Obama campaign
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/03/another-racial-divide-in-the-d.html#comment-51118
Posted by: GORDO | March 12, 2008 3:15 PM
repost from last thread
Sorry about not responding to the numbers question, warren - I had a meeting I had to attend. Since every assumption I've used has been rejected as sophistry by you, why not just tell me what the voter splits will turn out to be in MI, FL and the remaining contests except PA and then I can respond.
Snark aside, I was using the numbers you provided, included FL, used the MI number of 150 that you (generously) suggested, assumed an even split for the remaining voters, and just ran the math. I thought it was pretty simple. For an easier analysis, just forget the remaining voters - the math is the same.
407 (current D w/FL) - 150 (MI per warren) = 257 (all in thousands)
Like I said, difficult, but possible.
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 12, 2008 3:17 PM
Carlson's a wingnut imo
Posted by: Antoin "Tony" Rezdog | March 12, 2008 3:19 PM
See, this is when I wish I could watch Craig's vids. Got anyone bearing their breasts in this one? And please don't tell me it's Ted Kennedy if so.
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 12, 2008 3:25 PM
Rez, YHO would be correct. ;-{)
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 12, 2008 3:26 PM
Craig,
You must tell us what Toby does to celebrate another Clinton win in Florida. :)
Posted by: Jamie
| March 12, 2008 3:30 PM
Gordo...here's just a bit about John Carlson:
In 1998, conservative activist Tim Eyman launched Initiative 200, which attempted to prohibit affirmative action. The campaign was soon handed over to Carlson, who took over. The initiative received enough signatures to earn a place on the ballot, and in November of 1998, voters approved it.
Posted by: Patsi | March 12, 2008 3:30 PM
Very difficult pogo - and it is hard to "forget the remaining voters" - especially since most of the states remaining favor Obama.
But listen - I get anything can happen and I am not saying HRC must exit the race - or the sky will fall down.
But there are growing questions about whether she can "win" this thing - as opposed to just "finishing."
And like I have said - if she finishes this thing on a positive note - and she trains most of her fire on McCain instead of Obama - fine by me.
But I do have a problem with the "kitchen sink" method - because I think it hurts BOTH Demoratic candidates for the general.
Posted by: warren | March 12, 2008 3:32 PM
Time on Her Side: Obama Maintains Lead, but Clinton Might Have the Edge
"The Clinton campaign plans to use the coming six-week gap in primary voting to aggressively push its case that Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., lacks the necessary experience to be president as the superdelegates loom by far as the most important voters in the race.
After Obama's Tuesday win in Mississippi, the strategy of defining the Illinois senator while the delegate count stays essentially frozen reflects a belief by Sen. Hillary Clinton's campaign advisers — after withstanding perhaps the roughest month of Clinton's presidential campaign — that the New York senator now has a powerful ally on her side: time. "
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/Story?id=4430817&page=1
Posted by: GORDO | March 12, 2008 3:34 PM
Truebeliever,
Obama has demonstrated that he has transcended the race issue with White voters. I suspect that the numbers are visible when you look at how well he does amongst the wealthy and well educated segment of the population.
Many of these older Democrats, and Ferraro is indicative of the group, vividly remember Archie Bunker, what the times that created that line of thinking were like.
For many older people, black folks belong on stage, on the pulpit, on a sports field or serving them in some capacity, but not in a position of power.
Malcolm X had a great quote when he was debating at Oxford... where he held up the US to the mirror of apartheid and concluded that at least the South African's were open and honest about their beliefs.
Posted by: Bear | March 12, 2008 3:42 PM
"most of the states remaining favor Obama."
The remaining states especiall Pa,Indiana, Ky and WV favor Clinton. She will do well in Oregon as well looks at the difference between the Washngton State vote and caucus. And PR changes it's -practice to include more voter participation all favor Clinton.
On what do you base your argument the final states favor Obama.
An of course the Mulligan stew of Michigan and Florida.
ps
I 'm a big fan of the Video Trail Mix. How do you send a link for the particular trail mix to somone?
Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | March 12, 2008 3:44 PM
Bear opined: "For many older people, black folks belong on stage, on the pulpit, on a sports field or serving them in some capacity, but not in a position of power."
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/03/another-racial-divide-in-the-d.html#comment-51130
Bear, I don't know who you categorize as older people, but...
You may be right if you are talking from the point of view of black people; I have no real idea how that part of our population feels, and wouldn't be so bold as to conjure a generalization.
From my point of view as an older white male, I think many of us have seen black people in genuine positions of leadership. My background is primarily in the military. I served directly under Gen Powell. Lt Gen Benjamin O Davis, Jr. was my commander while I was in Korea during the Pueblo Crisis back in 1968. I never met the man, but I, and the people I served with, sure knew who we was, and we were darned proud to have him as our commander. And there was our first sergeant in Vietnam, a man who had served in the segregated Army during WW-II. He had our unbounded admiration. You get the point.
People in every field came name their own heroes.
I for one would be perfectly willing to have any of the above people as an elected official responsible for the safety and nurturing of me and my family.
Posted by: Flatus
| March 12, 2008 3:54 PM
The recent debate on this site and some other issues have led me to revisit some of the words of Malcolm X. I am fascinated by the idea of him being a public figure in this day and age. He had some quotes that would be of significant importance now...
"You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it."
Posted by: Bear
| March 12, 2008 3:55 PM
Interesting Village Voice article on Right Wing punditry's love for Sen. Obama.
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0811,374100,374100,2.html
Posted by: Jamie
| March 12, 2008 3:56 PM
"If you've studied the captives being caught by the American soldiers in South Vietnam, you'll find that these guerrillas are young people. Some of them are just children and some haven't reached their teens. Most are teenagers. It is the teenagers abroad, all over the world, who are actually involving themselves in the struggle to eliminate oppression and exploitation. In the Congo, the refugees point out that many of the Congolese revolutionaries, they shoot all the way down to seven years old - that's been reported in the press. Because the revolutionaries are children, young people. In these countries, the young people are the ones who most quickly identify with the struggle and the necessity to eliminate the evil conditions that exist. And here in this country, it has been my own observation that when you get into a conversation on racism and discrimination and segregation, you will find young people more incensed over it - they feel more filled with an urge to eliminate it."
Posted by: Bear
| March 12, 2008 3:57 PM
"Obama has demonstrated that he has transcended the race issue with White voters"
Just to correct a typo
"Obama has demonstrated that he has embraced racial politics with White voters"
Posted by: Disillusioned Democrat | March 12, 2008 3:57 PM
" 'm a big fan of the Video Trail Mix. How do you send a link for the particular trail mix to somone? -- Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker"
Thanks, KGC. Just send the link for this page: http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/03/democrats-gone-wild.html
Posted by: Craig Crawford
| March 12, 2008 3:59 PM
or here is the link to a page with all TM videos:
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/video-trail-mix/
Posted by: Craig Crawford
| March 12, 2008 4:01 PM
Who did you quote, Bear?
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/03/democrats-gone-wild.html#comment-51149
Don't think it's Che, who is it?
Posted by: Flatus
| March 12, 2008 4:02 PM
Flatus,
I think my cut off point for who I consider old in that statement is anyone who remembers All in the Family, bussing, the 70's etc. I find that people who didn't see Archie Bunker on CBS can never grasp the genius behind it and thus don't fall into the view I was describing...
Another quote...
"But it does make the black people in this country who are jobless and unemployed and standing in the welfare line very much discouraged to see a government that can't solve our problem, can't provide job opportunities for us, and at the same time not only Cubans but Hungarians and every other type of white refugee imaginable can come to this country and get everything this government has to offer."
Posted by: Bear
| March 12, 2008 4:02 PM
Sorry, today's quotes are provided by El Hajj Malik Shabbazz...
Posted by: Bear
| March 12, 2008 4:04 PM
"For many older people, black folks belong on stage, on the pulpit, on a sports field or serving them in some capacity, but not in a position of power."
Bear, I think you may be the one working from an older prototype. Most of the people I know that you would call "older" have had extensive relationships with people of color that we respect as friends, neighbors, work associates, and heros.
In fact we are so comfortable that we actually know we can disapprove of someone of color on their own flaws without letting that attitude spill over on to others. I leave the "White Guilt" to those less comfortable with their associations.
I know that prejudice exists, that is is a deep poison in our society, and that it can rear its ugly head at any time. I don't believe that the majority of those supporting Sen Clinton because she represents our ideals and goals are among those people
Posted by: Jamie
| March 12, 2008 4:05 PM
Well, then there's this - to avoid forgetting the remaining voters - if we only go by polls, of the remaining races, 5 have polls posted at USAElectionPolls.com or Pollster.com. Hillary is ahead in 3 of the 5 - PA 19pts, WV 21 pts., OR - 11 pts. BO is ahead in 2 - IN 15 pts, NC 8 pts. If those states vote in numbers similar to states of comparable size and those margins held, the popular vote would be very close to dead even. But if there is one thing we know, this all will change. All this means nothing, but it's fun noodling it.
I doubt that her fire will be trained on McCain - she isn't running against him, and if recent history teaches us anything, we shouldn't expect the remainder of the campaign to be positive - from either side.
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 12, 2008 4:08 PM
Okay, this Trail Mix made me laugh.
Posted by: alpha1906
| March 12, 2008 4:08 PM
"El Hajj Malik Shabbazz"
And he converted to that name upon entering the least angry, most peaceful, and truly productive period of his life.
Posted by: Jamie
| March 12, 2008 4:08 PM
Is this election going to end up being just about race ?
Posted by: march12 | March 12, 2008 4:12 PM
"is this election going to end up being just about race ?"
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/03/democrats-gone-wild.html#comment-51161
No, March, but it sure has the potential of being just about racial politics (to my great dismay).
Posted by: Flatus
| March 12, 2008 4:15 PM
Afternoon economic news, dead cat didn't bounce today - Dow has lost 46 so far. Coreen & I were right.
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 12, 2008 4:16 PM
That would be
El Hajj Malik Shabazz
"When you become [a true] Muslim, you don't
look at a man as being black, brown, red, yellow. You look at him as being
a man"
El Hajj Malik Shabazz
Posted by: black like me | March 12, 2008 4:16 PM
Craig.... LOL!..... thank god you still have a sense of humor.....
march12..... yup.... it's about race..... it's called a horse"race".....
only thing is that it appears as the only part of the horse running is the hindquarters..... :)
Posted by: RebelliousRenee | March 12, 2008 4:17 PM
Jamie,
I don't believe that the majority of Clintonite racist. I DO believe that the Clinton campaign since SC has used the same tactics that would have made Lee Atwater proud. And that taps into the prejudices of people which makes people vote not for something, but against something. White, working class Americans have more in common with black working class Americans than any other group.
But any white politician worth their salt (since the Civil War by the way) knows that if you pit white versus black, then they'll win the white vote. In other words, they can convince white voters to vote against their own interest in order to preserve the value of whiteness. Ever wonder how poor whites can vote Republican, when it makes absolutely no sense economically for them to protect the wealth of big cat Republicans? All you have to do is argue that the concerns of African Americans are contrasts to the concerns of whites and portray yourself as being a friend of their interests and voila, you have Geraldine Ferraro saying that the African American candidate is undeserving versus the white candidate.
Posted by: alpha1906
| March 12, 2008 4:20 PM
Jamie,
Someone asked a question, I provided an answer. Other people referred to older white Democrats who would not vote for a black man. Geraldine Ferraro can seemingly fall into that place as well. I was speculating on where that group of people may be.
I never once referred to white guilt. That's their problem, not mine. I am intentionally not making any judgments or assertions to that point, about any Clinton supporters.
If you use today's standard of trying people in the media instead of a court of law, remember that those who act guilty typically are guilty, until the facts come out...
With regards to your 4:08 post, I would agree he was at the most peace, but it was not his most productive period, unless you are judging strictly upon the criteria of personal growth and even then it's up to debate. I was amazed to learn again that he was on a prison debate team and was very successful against debate teams from Harvard and MIT.
It's the ultimate chicken and egg argument...which is the greater accomplishment...
A. Getting to where you ultimately wanting to be...
of
B. Successfully navigate the road that leads there?
Posted by: Bear
| March 12, 2008 4:21 PM
Doesn't look like a solution to the MI/FL f*@kup is at hand.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/12/us/politics/12cnd-delegates.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1205353291-WpJC/IM77s6hFKxE3U4BGw
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 12, 2008 4:26 PM
Doesn't look like a solution to the MI/FL f*@kup is at hand.
Caling Bill Richardson Calling Bill Rchardson.
Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | March 12, 2008 4:30 PM
ah pogo bin agogo, but the state party and DNC are closer to agreement than the candidates are, which might matter more. Fla Dems are planning to submit plan to DNC tomorrow
Posted by: Craig Crawford
| March 12, 2008 4:30 PM
"I DO believe that the Clinton campaign since SC has used the same tactics that would have made Lee Atwater proud."
Alpha,
This is my problem. Have they done this or just been accused of this? Believe me, they haven't come anywhere close to the crud that Lee Atwater pulled. Exactly what actions of the Clinton campaign do you believe were racist, and what of those actions are you naming from observation as opposed to reports?
The Jesuits love argumentation from proof so take a good hard look at what you are considering "proof" and what is either third party rumor or supposition?
Posted by: Jamie
| March 12, 2008 4:33 PM
"I think my cut off point for who I consider old in that statement is anyone who remembers All in the Family, bussing, the 70's etc. I find that people who didn't see Archie Bunker on CBS can never grasp the genius behind it and thus don't fall into the view I was describing..."
Damn, Bear, that makes my kids old. ;(((
Posted by: Flatus
| March 12, 2008 4:33 PM
See, alpha, GF didn't say that any more than she said she wasn't deserving in '84. Of course this does point out the primary problem with racial politics - nothing is fairly judged on its merits, whether it be a candidate or a comment.
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 12, 2008 4:33 PM
Craig, that is very good news, indeed. Didn't Howie say that the campaigns would have to agree to the approach - o or did I dream that?
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 12, 2008 4:37 PM
I thought Obama said they would abide by whatever the DNC decided and the candddates shouldn't be a party t the negotiations.
""That report was not accurate," he said. "We have abided by the DNC rules to this date and will continue to abide by them. So, if there is a remedy that the DNC and state parties agree to, that meets the rules ... we will abide by those."
But Plouffe said he does not think the two campaigns should be involved with the negotiations.
"If there is a revote approved by the DNC, obviously we're going to abide by that," he said. "We are not going to pick and choose what kind of contest is appropriate to us"
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-wyoming-caucusmar09,0,3248132.story
looks like another change of mind to me
Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | March 12, 2008 4:37 PM
"I would agree he was at the most peace, but it was not his most productive period"
It was his period of most dramatic personal change. Who knows how productive, for his life was cut short.
For, El Hajj Malik Shabazz, his greatest danger wasn't from the whites, he loudly denounced as Malcom X, but from his black brothers.
This is true for many of us.
Posted by: black like me | March 12, 2008 4:38 PM
Well, I posted here and at a few other blogs my imaginary headline upon hearing the Spitzer mess two days ago.
"The Emperor had no Clothes"
Today, I see Jason at the NY Observer leads with that headline on their front page.
Don't know if copyrighting would have helped...LOL
This election may well end up to be about race which is why I got so enraged when the Obama camp played that card. I could post you a dozen racial spins including the brilliant line that Obama will get change past the Republicans like "busting the doors of segregation wide open".
I predicted voting would start to split along racial lines and that Black Hillary supporters would come under fire. I guess Obama's campaign was really the high road and a new kind of tact. Yeah, really new.
First it was Republican Lite and untrustworthiness and then Michelle's race attack on Bill. A completely bad move. And then there's the love Mass feels for Duval, who beat Obama to most of his lines. Go ahead, try to beat McCain by messing with Florida and Michigan, playing race, trashing the Clintons and ignoring that the majority of Democrats have voted for Hillary included the big States McCain has a chance at should Obama run. Only the Democrats could be so inept poltically. Maybe they have learned to apply Iraqi incompetence to their partisan strategy and now shoot themselves in the foot.
Messiah of what?
Posted by: Maxtrue | March 12, 2008 4:38 PM
" I was amazed to learn again that he was on a prison debate team and was very successful against debate teams from Harvard and MIT."
Bear, He was an amazing man. Few have the ability and brains to totally turn their lives around. If you don't have it bookmarked, you might like this page with books both by and about him as well as some excellent videos
http://www.africawithin.com/malcolmx/malcolm_books.htm
Posted by: Jamie
| March 12, 2008 4:38 PM
Ferraro v. Obama
"Geraldine Ferraro stood by her controversial comments about Sen. Barack Obama's presidential candidacy today.
She declined to apologize directly for the firestorm she created when she told a newspaper last week that "if Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position." ... ..
Obama's got another problem that's bigger than Ferraro, especially given last night's numbers. Via TNR:
Ferraro's original statement to Daily Breeze, which suggested that Obama has gotten preferential political treatment because of his race, was a dog-whistle to white voters who resent affirmative action. (Her subsequent statement to the New York Times, in which she defiantly defended herself by proclaiming "I will not be discriminated against because I’m white," wasn't a dog whistle. It was a huge, screeching megaphone.) Dwelling on that probably won't help the Obama campaign in Pennsylavnia (sic), particularly given the racial voting patterns yesterday's Mississippi result confirmed. "
http://taylormarsh.com/
Posted by: GORDO | March 12, 2008 4:44 PM
“I realized racism isn’t just a black and white problem. It’s brought bloodbaths to about every nation on earth at one time or another.”
El Hajj Malik Shabazz
Posted by: black like me | March 12, 2008 4:46 PM
Alpha,
I think the reason we may be seeing these candidates from opposite polls is that I genuinely believe that Hillary Clinton would be able to accomplish more for the AA community just as she has done all her life. She has the contacts, the groups, and the wherewithal to be more successful. Yes Senator Obama has a background in Community action, but not nearly the time in service building organizations and contacts.
As I've stated repeatedly, I believe Sen Obama has many wonderful qualities and abilities. I do not believe he is ready fo the top of the totem pole. In fact I'll take it one step farther, my main reason for wanting the "dream team" is to not shut out his supporters while giving him time to develop not because I believe he is ready on "day one". I would have more faith in his candidacy if he had at least served one full term in the senate building national and international coalitions.
Posted by: Jamie
| March 12, 2008 4:48 PM
toodles - gotta run
Posted by: pogo bin agogo | March 12, 2008 4:50 PM
Gordo,
Why don't you just have taylor post here directly. It would save on the middle man.
Posted by: Jamie
| March 12, 2008 4:50 PM
Try to get a little sun while you're in FLA, Craig, you're looking a little peaked there!
Posted by: Julia
| March 12, 2008 4:51 PM
The way this is playing out is so distasteful, maybe because no one can be themselves anymore, and every move is ultra-contrived. NO one can make a mistake without being held to the fire. You would think that rational people would be able to look beyond the microscope to see the human elements and qualities in a person, and people who support that person, but no...no chance, in the end there must be carnage.
Posted by: march12 | March 12, 2008 4:51 PM
Suit yourself Clintonites. Just remember - this is politics.
And if Obama's supporters or the media - make nasty and sexist remarks - don't blame Obama. Especially since it now appears I will have to make it my mission to destroy your candidate and anyone who gets in my way.
We tried doing this the easy way...but you just wouldn't listen.
Just kidding folks. I don't think it will get so nasty. Things will calm down with no contests between now and PA. Of course It will reach an absolute boiling point before PA - and people will swear that they will never visit this blog again and would never think of voting for the other's candidate.
But after the concession speech (whoever that may be ; ) we will all dust ourselves off and go after the Rebpulicans like a bunch of rapid Clintonites.
God speed!!
Posted by: warren | March 12, 2008 5:02 PM
Sen Obama's podium now reads:
"Judgement to Lead"
He or his handlers really, really do not want any of the Clinton supporters to vote for him.
Just keep poking us with that stick, but don't be surprised when we bite.
Posted by: Jamie
| March 12, 2008 5:02 PM
RE:FL/MI
On one of the Sunday shows, Howard Dean did say he would seek a Florida/Michigan solution that would be acceptable to both candidates.
That was probably too much to hope for. He probably should have just committed to making sure both campaigns would have a voice in, or be aware of , the discussions.
Posted by: EdVB
| March 12, 2008 5:03 PM
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/3/5/9510/72783
Obama himself saying they would do whatever the DNC said. (except seat the delegations as they are)
But he left out all the over caveats they are now introducing. It looks like they have had their bluff called. Obama does not want Michigan and Florida to count at all.
Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | March 12, 2008 5:14 PM
Sen Obama's podium now reads:
"Judgement to Lead"
He or his handlers really, really do not want any of the Clinton supporters to vote for him.
Just keep poking us with that stick, but don't be surprised when we bite.
Posted by: Jamie Author Profile Page | March 12, 2008 5:02 PM
Believe it or not Jamie the world doesn't revolve around you. What's your problem with "Judgement To Lead"? your candidate opened up the door and it's been responded too.
Posted by: Brian Hussein In NYC
| March 12, 2008 5:14 PM
Jamie,
He isn't poking fun at Clinton supporters. He is dumbing down his message to speak to the "less educated" demographic which hasn't voted for him.
On a different note, if you aren't familiar with ESPN.com's Bill Simmons, he is a columnist and one of the best writers in America today...his column today is especially poingnant
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080312
Posted by: Bear
| March 12, 2008 5:17 PM
Ferraro resigns from the Clinton campaign.
Posted by: Brian Hussein In NYC
| March 12, 2008 5:18 PM
a head for a head
Posted by: march12 | March 12, 2008 5:20 PM
Who is next? Who is the next idiot to say some stupid half-baked thought that pops into their head and gets them thrown off their campaign?
Posted by: march12 | March 12, 2008 5:22 PM
Jamie ------------------
The first and second paragraphs are from GMA at ABC. The last paragraph is from TNR. Easier to get all at TM.
Posted by: GORDO | March 12, 2008 5:23 PM
McCain Starts His 'National Town Hall Campaign'
http://blogs.unionleader.com/andrew-cline/?p=1115
Go John!!!!
Posted by: disillusioned democrat | March 12, 2008 5:23 PM
Dear Hillary –
I am stepping down from your finance committee so I can speak for myself and you can continue to speak for yourself about what is at stake in this campaign.
The Obama campaign is attacking me to hurt you.
I won't let that happen.
Thank you for everything you have done and continue to do to make this a better world for my children and grandchildren.
You have my deep admiration and respect.
Gerry
Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | March 12, 2008 5:24 PM
More and more I'm warming up to the idea of Clair as Barack's running mate, she's really done an outstanding job on his behalf.
Posted by: Brian Hussein In NYC
| March 12, 2008 5:26 PM
MCCain is very effective in townhall meetings.
Posted by: march12 | March 12, 2008 5:28 PM
NO FEAR , TRAILMIXERS! FLORIDA SIGNED UP OUR HERO TO COUNT ALL THE MAIL-INS! HERE HE IS!
http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/268.jpg
Posted by: Dexter
| March 12, 2008 5:29 PM
Bear,
The story of his death just made me ill. Too many beautiful young people dying for no reason. That is the crime of our time.
I can actually remember a time in LA when I would have walked alone in a "dangerous" neighborhood knowing that the worst that would happen would possibly being robbed, and people would have poured out of their houses to help me. (Just to be honest, I wouldn't have done it at night without a group of friends around me who possessed a good dosage of melanin)
Now the drugs and the gangs bring such horror to the people who live in those areas. There aren't any answers to this except to keep trying to make changes and save these children.
Posted by: Jamie
| March 12, 2008 5:30 PM
God bless this mess
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWStOxRW3yU
Posted by: march12 | March 12, 2008 5:41 PM
Here is a very enlightening article about Mukasey and his influence on sentencing guidelines regarding crack cocaine offenses. Prisons bursting (one of every nine African American men between 20 and 24 years of age is incarcerated as I type)
Mukasey is same-old -same old...has Senator Obama weighed in on this critical issue? Would he allow a Justice Department to keep one of nine African Americans imprisoned for long terms when many could be rehabbed or at least offered another chance at free life instead of rotting away in overcrowded prisons? Or is Obama all "Law and Order", and approving of do-nothing Mukasey-tactics?
http://nationaljournal.com/taylor.htm
Posted by: Dexter
| March 12, 2008 5:43 PM
Could we please keep a few things in mind. First the republicans in Fl decided to change the primary date not the DNC, but they penalized them.
Second, Obama got most of his delegates from Caucuses where many times less than 10000 people voted. Is this democratic?? I think NOT!
Third, if you count the delegates by told number in the states won as opposed to dividing them. Hillary has the most. Now what does that tell you. DUH!
Go Hillary
Posted by: Carol
| March 12, 2008 5:47 PM
yes we can
Posted by: march12 | March 12, 2008 5:50 PM
Rules are rules Carol. If you find them so troubling you should have brought it up about a year ago.
Posted by: Brian Hussein In NYC
| March 12, 2008 5:57 PM
"yes we can"
No I Won't :)
Firmly digging in heels.
Posted by: Jamie
| March 12, 2008 6:01 PM
Big Pharma donations
Obama maintains a slight edge over his Democratic rival, with $181,000 in Big Pharma donations through Jan. 31, compared with Clinton's $174,000, according to the center. McCain is far behind with $44,000.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/04/news/companies/pharma_votes/index.htm
Posted by: march12 | March 12, 2008 6:02 PM
yes we can
take big pharma money
Posted by: march12 | March 12, 2008 6:04 PM
Memo to Geraldine Ferraro:
When you find Pat Buchanan and yourself agreeing, keep your mouth shut!
Posted by: Brian Hussein In NYC
| March 12, 2008 6:05 PM
Carol,
You can't punish one candidate because a particular contest had minimal turnout. Voters are lazy and if one does a better job motivating their base than so be it.
A stopped clock is right twice a day. I fear people on all sides will waste a lot of energy trying to get the time to match their stalled time piece instead of figuring out how to wind it or change the battery.
Thomas Jefferson
A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.
"Every man cannot have his way in all things. If his opinion prevails at some times, he should acquiesce on seeing that of others preponderate at other times. Without this mutual disposition we are disjointed individuals, but not a society." -- Thomas Jefferson to J. Dickinson, 1801.
Posted by: Bear
| March 12, 2008 6:08 PM
Why do people who don't live in my neighborhood want to release all those drug dealing gang members back into my neighborhood.
I would agree if Mr Taylor would find a place for them in his neighborhood.
I know several of them and I say keep their sorry butts behind bars, we don't need them.
Posted by: black like me | March 12, 2008 6:11 PM
Brian ---------------------------
Think about what GF has done - it"s part of the plan.
Posted by: GORDO | March 12, 2008 6:12 PM
Why are the obama people afraid of the Mi.&Fla vote.If they are so sure they are going to win the nomination then they should welcome the chance to win in these states.If they can't win by counting all the states then they don't deserve the nomination.In Nov. all the states will be in pkay and he can't afford to alienate any of them
Posted by: Ruth | March 12, 2008 6:22 PM
One man can make a difference Michael...
http://www.bellairehistoricsociety.org/vote.html
I wonder if Jefferson was using a crystal ball when he offered these quotes:
“He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors”
“I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us that the less we use our power the greater it will be.”
“An injured friend is the bitterest of foes.”
"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country."
Posted by: Bear | March 12, 2008 6:22 PM
With FL and MI they should require the last four digits of your social security number OR your driver's license number for mail in voting. That is what we do in Ohio (yes, I know...but there is the dumb factor here). Forget the first vote in MI and FL. That was against all the rules and just start over. Using the above criteria SHOULD eliminate fraud unless you have people going around collecting driver's license numbers from others and voting. Couldn't you see Rush Limbaugh doing that and voting for Hilliary to ensure she would win to run against the R's? That's exactly what they want. And, WE lose again!!! You know, there is a record of that.
Posted by: Karolenna | March 12, 2008 6:29 PM
Max,
The race card;
I'm slow sometimes, help me if you will !
I see much ado about who brought up the race card first..etc.
Now I'm assuming that BO would bring it up in some sort of an effort to seek sympathy for being attacked inappropriately. What else? How would this help, to bring up an issue he's been trying to 'transcend'"?
I can see HRC bringing it up to try and polarize the voters and prey on racial prejudices. So it could be be helpful to her.
So what am i missing. Why would BO want to talk about race? TIA
Posted by: Antoin "Tony" Rezdog | March 12, 2008 6:29 PM
"Why are the obama people afraid of the Mi.&Fla vote.If they are so sure they are going to win the nomination then they should welcome the chance to win in these states.If they can't win by counting all the states then they don't deserve the nomination.In Nov. all the states will be in pkay and he can't afford to alienate any of them"
Dahhhh! 2000 comes to mind!!!
Posted by: Karolenna | March 12, 2008 6:32 PM
Dexter...thanks for the smile...I bet if we check, that is a stock photo and the guy is actually a supporter and potential precinct captain for HRC.
Posted by: Blonde wino
| March 12, 2008 6:33 PM
So what am i missing. Why would BO want to talk about race? TIA
Posted by: Antoin "Tony" Rezdog | March 12, 2008 6:29 PM
He wasn't getting any of the black vote and needed to turn the black community to his favor. Who can forget Mrs. Obama saying the black community will wake up and support my husband. A number of people suggested they only switched because of the Clinton's racist remarks Remember Senator Obama's campaign wrote a memo for distribution in SC
detailing why Senator Clinton and her huband are racists. He needed to give the black community a reason to turn on Senator Clinton.
Posted by: The Black Harry Dent | March 12, 2008 6:35 PM
IMHO, racial tension is vote cement.
Posted by: Blonde wino
| March 12, 2008 6:36 PM
Harry,
So, he's wanting this to be a Black/ white based campaign?
And he's got the Black vote and has been getting it since SC when it first was available. And now he wants to increase the vote from 92%(MS) to 100?
Posted by: Antoin "Tony" Rezdog | March 12, 2008 6:40 PM
If he thinks polarizing the electorate is the way to go, I think thats a flawed strategy..And I'm a BO supporter!
i think i'm missing something.. a brain..lol
Posted by: Antoin "Tony" Rezdog | March 12, 2008 6:43 PM
I was talking about what he did to get the black vote
in general since that was your question.
He needed to get th black vote and he wasn't getting it.
The only way was to paint the Clinton's as racists with the help of a willing media. were able to do it.
Posted by: The Black Harry Dent | March 12, 2008 6:45 PM
BW,
So BO's trying to encourage racial tension?
Posted by: Antoin "Tony" Rezdog | March 12, 2008 6:45 PM
Obama was discrediting the Clintons.
Posted by: The Black Harry Dent | March 12, 2008 6:46 PM
march 12,
I believe I'll go with a .org rather than a .com as for pharma donations. I've also found similar sites that say the same thing.
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/select.asp?Ind=H04
And, according to the tenor of the piece, i.e. Money Magazine, I’d say it favors the Repugs more. You know (or did you not) that they want HRC as their candidate!!!
Posted by: Karolenna | March 12, 2008 6:47 PM
Harry,
I think your theory sucks, but that's just me. You keep suggesting he's still playing the race. Why if he has the vote?
Posted by: Antoin "Tony" Rezdog | March 12, 2008 6:47 PM
So apparently based on this new MSNBC poll that's going to be released later tonight Obama has a much better chance at uniting the party than Hillary. I guess that's what happens when one candidate runs a hope based campaign and the other runs a fear based campaign. Is there anything Hillary can get right?
Posted by: Brian Hussein In NYC
| March 12, 2008 6:47 PM
Harry he got the black vote when he won white Iowa.
Posted by: Brian Hussein In NYC
| March 12, 2008 6:48 PM
Where was Barack Obama’s judgment in 2005
"when Hillary was voting against Cheney’s Energy Bill?
Barack Obama voted Aye on the committee reports.
Barack Obama voted Aye on the conference report.
Barack Obama voted Aye for the 2005 giveaway to the Oil and Gas Industry"
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/
Posted by: GORDO | March 12, 2008 6:55 PM
"I agree itj you. But the Obama supporters keep churning out the same old stuff and keeping the story alive. This fom Kevin Drumm at Washington Monthly
an Obama supporter.
"But the accusations of racism haven't. They've just gotten more ridiculous. Last week a commenter at Daily Kos claimed that the Clinton campaign had concocted an ad that deliberately darkened Obama's face (to make him scarier) and changed the image's aspect ratio (to make his nose broader). They hadn't. After a 60 Minutes appearance, Hillary got slammed for supposedly implying the Obama might be a Muslim. As Eric Boehlert points out, this is patently absurd. Then, a couple of days ago, a legion of bloggers started locking onto the inane meme that talk of Obama as Hillary's VP was like asking him to "ride in the back of the bus." Finally, today, Orlando Patterson, in an apparent attempt to make parody obsolete, writes that when he saw Hillary's "3 am" ad, "I couldn't help but think of D. W. Griffith's 'Birth of a Nation,' the racist movie epic that helped revive the Ku Klux Klan, with its portrayal of black men lurking in the bushes around white society." Hell, even I fell for the racism meme a couple of weeks ago, getting suckered into passing along a Drudge slander about Hillary's campaign supposedly circulating a photo of Obama in "Muslim" garb
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_03/013304.php
Posted by: The Black Harry Dent | March 12, 2008 6:58 PM
Sorry Gordo that story has already been discredited.
Posted by: Brian Hussein In NYC
| March 12, 2008 6:58 PM
Saw lots of good quotes and references to Malcolm X on today's thread. Below is another classic. But I'm not sure the basic philosophy of Malcolm X really dovetails very neatly with Obama's personal and political history, not to mention what is supposedly the core message of his campaign, not to mention the spirit of unity with which he is attracting upper-income white voters.
"If I have a cup of coffee that is too strong for me because it is too black, I weaken it by pouring cream into it. I integrate it with cream. If I keep pouring enough cream in the coffee, pretty soon the entire flavor of the coffee is changed; the very nature of the coffee is changed. If enough cream is poured in, eventually you don't even know that I had coffee in this cup. This is what happened with the March on Washington. The whites didn't integrate it; they infiltrated it. Whites joined it; they engulfed it; they became so much a part of it, it lost its original flavor. It ceased to be a black march; it ceased to be militant; it ceased to be angry; it ceased to be impatient. In fact, it ceased to be a march."
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 12, 2008 7:02 PM
Harry,
'But the Obama supporters keep churning out the same old stuff and keeping the story alive."
Do we know for sure these are BO campaign generated stories. There sure are some dubious provenance on some of the memos, pix, tales, etc.
Posted by: Antoin "Tony" Rezdog | March 12, 2008 7:03 PM
Interesting, since I got home from school, the TV media has been showing Obama's comments, all negative. Thought he does go negative. She will take PA big time. I was right on TX and Ohio and RI, but then I am always right, I am a woman. hahahaha
"I am woman hear me roar". YES!!!
Go Hillary!
You know Obama is such a idiot. Just take a minute and listen, unbias, and acturally hear his words.
Obama is becoming obsessed with Hillary because he knows his time is ending soon.
I think someone told him he would really win, whoever is backing him.
Gerry just stated the facts, it was not racist. Obama wants to make it racist. It is is racist it make it poor Obama. I am getting so sick of this!
Posted by: Carol
| March 12, 2008 7:03 PM
No matter what, I think we can all agree that Howard Dean is a lousy leader of the dem party. Is it arrogance? Look what arrogance did for Spitzer (rule 11).
Posted by: Blonde wino
| March 12, 2008 7:09 PM
Tony
What we do know is when Obama has had a chance to stop the false claims of racism for example in NH, he dd not and he does not disavow them now.
Posted by: The Black Harry Dent | March 12, 2008 7:10 PM
Some of the Obama supporters need to stop "spinning" and just look at what is happening. The Obama campaign has done great damage to the Dem Party. Don't confuse this phase with what will occur in the GE.
Posted by: GORDO | March 12, 2008 7:12 PM
Harry,
You have a different take on things than me and that's fine.
Posted by: Antoin "Tony" Rezdog | March 12, 2008 7:14 PM
Tony
No problem. Back at you.
Posted by: The Black Harry Dent | March 12, 2008 7:17 PM
Michelle Benard hit the nail right on the head, it's not what Ferraro said it's the anger with which she said it.
We've seen this since it came down to the the two of the, the sense of contempt, disdain, and belittlement shown for Obama by the Hillary folk. Just look at the way the Clintonista talk about Obama here, same thing, just a smaller platform.
Posted by: Brian Hussein In NYC
| March 12, 2008 7:18 PM
Wrong again wino, I think Dean has done a superb job at strengthing the party on the state and local level.
Posted by: Brian Hussein In NYC
| March 12, 2008 7:19 PM
Brian...you're right. We all need to just grow up and model our behavior after you. LOL.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 12, 2008 7:20 PM
She looked pretty stressed during that FOX interview.
Posted by: Antoin "Tony" Rezdog | March 12, 2008 7:21 PM
Gordo,
Your Hillary insanity never sees to amaze me. I bet you keep a stack of loose leaf papers in a folder under your arm. You call Taylor Marsh on speed dial while wearing a fisherman's hat with "Hillary For President" buttons in eight languages. I gotta give it to you. You're consistent with your madness for Hillary.
Posted by: alpha1906
| March 12, 2008 7:21 PM
LL that would be a step in the right direction.
Posted by: Brian Hussein In NYC
| March 12, 2008 7:21 PM
alpha Gordo's hat is made of tin foil.
Posted by: Brian Hussein In NYC
| March 12, 2008 7:22 PM
wow, this blog needs an edit button. I meant ceases not sees.
Posted by: alpha1906
| March 12, 2008 7:22 PM
Some of you seem intent on making Gerry Ferraro's words say something she did not intend..
Barack Obama in his usual self-righteousness attacked Ferroro, someone who has fought for Democratic party principles long before Mr;. Obama began talking about them.
Barqack Obama appears to the pushing the race issue in this campaign. Quite a disgrace...
Posted by: Oregon Democrat | March 12, 2008 7:24 PM
"NO FEAR , TRAILMIXERS! FLORIDA SIGNED UP OUR HERO TO COUNT ALL THE MAIL-INS! HERE HE IS! "
Ha! Thanks Dex....
Posted by: Patsi | March 12, 2008 7:29 PM
OD the road to hell is paved with good intentions. You can quote me on that. I wonder why Ferraro even went there in the first place. Another point where Ferraro is wrong she tries to liken her candidacy to Obama's, she's wrong. She was PICKED because she's a woman. Obama earned his place at the table by putting together one of the finest machines in recent history, he's raised more move, won more states, won more votes, and won more delegates. Ferraro was picked for window dressing by a candidate who knew he didn't have a snow ball's chance in hell of winning.
Posted by: Brian Hussein In NYC
| March 12, 2008 7:31 PM
"contempt, disdain, and belittlement"
Sounds like Hannity in NYC talking about the female candidate....
Posted by: Patsi | March 12, 2008 7:31 PM
Brian -----------
We just tell the truth, Obama is a FlimFlam man.
Posted by: GORDO | March 12, 2008 7:32 PM
"Obama earned his place at the table by putting together one of the finest machines in recent history, "
Too bad old Mayor Daley's not around for you to vote for.
Posted by: Patsi | March 12, 2008 7:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch0e9l9V5Lc
Posted by: Obama Campaign Song | March 12, 2008 7:37 PM
Alpha, glad you're online. Just for the sake of discussion, three simple questions for the record:
1. Had you even heard of Barack Obama before Keynote '04?
2. Do you actually believe that in the reductionist political reality that is created and defined by what we call "the national news media", that a white politician of limited experience giving that very same speech, word for word, would have been fussed over and vauled to celebrity status as was Obama?
3. Do you believe that race has NOTHING to do with any of that?
If you or any other Obama supporters on this board can honestly answer anything but "No. No. No." to those three questions, then I guess no one owes Geraldine Ferraro an apology for calling her a racist.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 12, 2008 7:39 PM
Does anyone really believe a 100% White Obama would get 80%-90% of the Black vote. He has played the race card - It may backfire on him.
Posted by: GORDO | March 12, 2008 7:40 PM
Whoever posted the stupid "Flim-Flam Man" song under a false name is not very funny, and is wasting everyone's time.
Thanks very much.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 12, 2008 7:41 PM
Carol,
I saw up above that you were excited about being right about HRC winning TX, OH and RI. That's akin to the US military celebrating a win over Grenada...
I don't remember if it was Craig, Peter Beinart, it may have been Tweety on the Morning Joe show, who point this out on MSNBC within the last week, but whomever it was referred back to an internal memo from the Obama campaign that went over each primary and caucus, predicting the outcome in each state. They were startled at how accurate their projections were. Their biggest miss was that they gave Clinton Maine. This memo was from some time in January.
To me it shows another example of how well organized the Obama campaign has been compared to the Clinton campaign.
Putting all allegiances to any candidate aside, it is disturbing that people cannot conclude that Obama has run one of the best presidential campaigns in history and that Clinton has run one of the worst.
What is that expression about never seeing how sausage is made? The way the Clinton campaign has been run has been disheartening because I am realized how my idealized picture of them was a bit romanticized I guess... that is more depressing than seeing McCain win in November.
Posted by: Bear
| March 12, 2008 7:42 PM
I am stuck in that "vote cement" That I think Blonde wino talked about .
Posted by: march11 | March 12, 2008 7:43 PM
Bear..hard to argue with your last post. He has run a pretty brilliant campaign...so far.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 12, 2008 7:44 PM
march12, again had to update
Posted by: march12 | March 12, 2008 7:44 PM
From my 7:39 post to Alpha: "vauled" should be "vaulted."
I need your edit key too.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 12, 2008 7:46 PM
Yes, Brian, I am sure the peeps of Florida and Michigan really feel Dean has helped at the state level. I know like to disagree...step out of your cement once in awhile.
Posted by: Blonde wino
| March 12, 2008 7:51 PM
LL toss the edit key this way..
To Brian...I know YOU like to disagree...
Posted by: Blonde wino
| March 12, 2008 7:55 PM
wino you're just joining the Clinton chorus of we don't your stinkin rules. Florida and MI both know they were courting trouble. If it were up to me I'd leave them out completely, but being a reasonable man I'm cool with a redo for both states.
Posted by: Brian Hussein In NYC
| March 12, 2008 7:55 PM
Blonde...don't fret too much about Brian. Last time I got naked with him, he had an "Edwards '08" tramp-stamp tattooed on his lower back. Now he's got "Obama" tattoed on his right butt cheek.
But I'm sure he'll come around for the general, and save his left butt cheek for Hillary.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 12, 2008 7:57 PM
Brian...I am now tossing you the edit key..."we don't your stinkin rules."
Posted by: Blonde wino
| March 12, 2008 7:58 PM
LL...now that is an image I would like to see cast in concrete.
Posted by: Blonde wino
| March 12, 2008 7:59 PM
Hi Lard,
But I'm sure he'll come around for the general, and save his left butt cheek for Hillary.
LOL IF SHE GETS IT....that's IF, Brian will gladly tatoo his left butt cheek for Hillary.....just not his forehead....that's reserved for 666. ;0)
Posted by: Sheila Hussein the Chef Nun | March 12, 2008 8:00 PM
need your stinkin rules.
Posted by: Brian Hussein In NYC
| March 12, 2008 8:00 PM
Time for Keith, ladies lock up your guns!
Posted by: Brian Hussein In NYC
| March 12, 2008 8:00 PM
Blonde...hah! We SHOULD put it in concrete and have Craig post the photo!
With this caption: "The only thing dividing the Democratic Party is Brian's butt crack."
I think it's a winner!!
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 12, 2008 8:01 PM
Helps to have MSM on your side, while it lies about Hillary & Bill. Obama is a con man.
Posted by: GORDO | March 12, 2008 8:02 PM
Time for dinner for me...I do love KO's Groucho's eye brows! He is not as original as he thinks he is ~ ~
Posted by: Blonde wino
| March 12, 2008 8:04 PM
LL..
Oh, my. What a visual!
If RR is out there, New Mexico mag has a lot about Richardson in "One of our Fifty is Missing." Andrea Mitchell thinks we are next to Nevada!
Must prepare food.
Posted by: Blonde wino
| March 12, 2008 8:08 PM
I think that this is more aptly entitled Democrats Go To Hell. I seriously doubt that the democratic party will ever be the same. I expect that there will be a significant number that permanately leave, some become unenrolled like I did years ago, others give up on politics and some even become Republicans.
Because the democratic controlled congress has been so inept and top it off with one of the most devisive primary campaigns, people will be completly turned off by whomever ends up with the nomination. Leaving a very nice opening for Senator McCAin. The acrimony on this bolg between the supporters of Clinton and Obama leads me to believe that it will be impossible to mend the party. I've never seen it this nasty, especially between people that essentially agree on the political solutions to the problems facing our country. How ironic.
Posted by: Bowmanc | March 12, 2008 8:19 PM
A little taste of SC for yas......Video included.
Three people upset that a news crew was reporting on the arrest of a relative attacked the television reporter and yelled racial slurs at her and a photographer, authorities said Tuesday.
The family members, all white, began yelling and charged at black WSPA-TV reporter Charmayne Brown while she was standing in the street near the family's home in Union, said news director Alex Bongiorno.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/12/charmayne-brown-black-re_n_91133.html
Posted by: sturgeone | March 12, 2008 8:22 PM
Was I the only one who watched NBC news tonight?
Ann Curry was the host and the guest was Geraldine Ferraro. Curry tried to beat her up over her remarks in re the Obama candidacy. Tried to get Ferraro to admit that she was nothing more than a racist.
Ferraro turned around and, figuratively, kicked her in the groan and said no way in hell is she going to say that. It's Axelrod and his henchmen who are running the racist campaign and that her, and Hillary's, hands are clean.
The conversation degenerated from there.
Bet that's the last time they do a live interview when they're not sure what the guest was going to say.
Posted by: Flatus
| March 12, 2008 8:22 PM
Yep, I agree with that statement Bowmanc.
Posted by: march12 | March 12, 2008 8:23 PM
Sturg,
If no one has said so yet.....So glad to see you posting again. Did you have a holiday?
Posted by: Sheila Hussein the Chef Nun | March 12, 2008 8:24 PM
moved and was offline for a tad or two.....
Posted by: sturgeone | March 12, 2008 8:26 PM
oh.....and thank you........
Posted by: sturgeone | March 12, 2008 8:26 PM
not having the internet was quite......primitive......
Posted by: sturgeone | March 12, 2008 8:29 PM
I just LOVE it when white politicians who are being mau-maued don't follow the script of abject apology, followed by permanent banishment from the island of political correctness.
Go Geraldine!!!
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| March 12, 2008 8:29 PM
" "The only thing dividing the Democratic Party is Brian's butt crack.""
ROFL!
Posted by: Patsi | March 12, 2008 8:30 PM
All I can say to Harry's comment about Obama playing the race card to get the AA vote is crazy and way I believe it to be.
If Obama was the one playing the race card then he is failing. While it's true he got 91 to 92% of the AA vote, but Hillary got 76% of the White vote.
So let me clarify this. The vote in the Primaries split along racial lines, but lets look at those White votes.
Obama took 26% of the White vote which was made up from Democrats, Republicans and Independents.
Hillary's 70% was like wise made up of Democrats, Republicans and Independents.
So how do these break down. Well 75% was Republicans while Obama had 25% Crossovers.
Hillary took 43% Independents while Obama got 53% of Independents. And 30% Democrats.
Hillary only received 30% of the Democratic votes. Now if we look at the AA vote for her it was only 8%.
This means that since she got 37% of the vote total 12% came from Registered Democrats, 8% from Independents and the remaining 15% from Republicans.
I highly doubt that of those 75% of crossover Republicans voted for her because they support her. More likely they voted for her since they feel she would be easier to beat in the General Election.
While the 25% of Republicans who voted for Obama would actually vote for him as well as the 53% of Independents.
So if he played the race card for the AA vote one would think that no White would ever think of voting for a AA than its not working.
A large percentage of her vote was White Republicans who will not vote for her in November. Also since I'm White it will not stop me from voting for Obama in November so I guess he didn't scare me about having an African American, Black Man or Bi-Racial man as my President.
Link for numbers used.
http://politicsplus.blogspot.com/
God Bless.
Posted by: anon-paranoid
| March 12, 2008 8:32 PM
Doves cry at the thought of a McCain presidency.
When Doves Cry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIb0Mfa32rs
Posted by: Dexter
| March 12, 2008 8:32 PM
Patsi, Is that the Great Divide?
Posted by: bowmanc | March 12, 2008 8:33 PM
for Lewis Black aficianados he has a show on the comedy channel tonight where he skewers Oprah and the catholic church.......10:30 eastern, right after South Park.
Posted by: sturgeone | March 12, 2008 8:34 PM
Glad to see you back Sturg. Hope the net withdrawal wasn't too painful.
Posted by: Brian Hussein In NYC
| March 12, 2008 8:34 PM
Well....Sturg....I missed ya anyway. lol
I can't stand being the only one up. I miss your BS... ;0)
Posted by: Sheila Hussein the Chef Nun | March 12, 2008 8:35 PM
"The only thing dividing the Democratic Party is Brian's butt crack"
Didn't think there was room with getting around his head and all.
Posted by: Jamie
| March 12, 2008 8:35 PM
right on the money there AP, and it's born out in the head to head polls against McCain, which is exactly why Obama needs to be our nominee.
Posted by: Brian Hussein In NYC
| March 12, 2008 8:37 PM
A strong tough woman
We need more of them
Geraldine Ferraro
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#23599031
Posted by: disillusioned democrat | March 12, 2008 8:37 PM
" I guess he didn't scare me about having an African American, Black Man or Bi-Racial man as my President."
More passive aggressive posting. What makes you think any of us support Hillary because we are "afraid" of a black prez?
Posted by: Patsi | March 12, 2008 8:38 PM
"Didn't think there was room with getting around his head and all."
Jamie! Yer killin' me.
Posted by: Patsi | March 12, 2008 8:40 PM
I'm not afraid of having a black president, Im afraid of having a gop president.....
Posted by: sturgeone | March 12, 2008 8:40 PM
Welcome home Mr. Fish. You were missed.
Posted by: Jamie
| March 12, 2008 8:40 PM
“You know Obama is such a idiot. Just take a minute and listen, unbias, and acturally hear his words.”
Yes, I hear his words. They are of intelligence, not yelling rhetoric. If you think Obama’s words are idiotic, then for sure you must be an idiot. God, these Clintonistas (as Brian calls them). The Clintons and Bushes are the closest thing we’ve ever had in this country that comes close to Hitlerism. Anything for power. God, I hate the bastards and all those associated with them. You watch. Mark my word…for sure. If the witch is running (and without Obama) she tanks us for bomb, bomb, bomb Iran. ANYTHING, ANYTHING FOR POWER. That’s the Clintons.
And to think I was one of some who had breakfast with b*tch Ferraro and a cookout with McGovern (God, talk about a boring man). Hey, wonder if that idiot, Ferraro, wants the VP position? Now that's a losing position.
Yes, with the Clintons, the Democrats are going to Hell because they will die before losing any power (you know, they will lose power in their cold, dead hands). Isn't it ironic that their own ex-press secretary said almost the same thing. She knows them!!!!
Posted by: Karolenna | March 12, 2008 8:42 PM
Sheila, Sheila, protect me, the shrews and the fat ass are picking on me!
Posted by: Brian Hussein In NYC
| March 12, 2008 8:42 PM
"I just LOVE it when white politicians who are being mau-maued don't follow the script of abject apology, followed by permanent banishment from the island of political correctness."
I agree. This is now absurd.
What the hell will Obama do if he gets called out by a world leader? Cry racism?
And the reason I'm saying that is -- I heard his surrogates using that SAME sort of comment about Hillary. Will she cry if someone on the world stage upsets her?
Good for the goose, and all that.
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