Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

from the last thread:

good morning, Sheila and Craig

I'm just hoping the discourse here will be at a higher level today. I know I've said this time and again, but the personal attacks are disappointing, and I wish, rather than "did not" "did, too" arguments, that posters would cite sources and offer links rather than get in the mud.

I can't really buy into the premise of this post-- that a US senator can't represent change. Had we elected Jesse Helms in 1996, it would have been a big change, even though he'd been in the Senate for a long while.

Also, I don't see why you went out of your way to get in an insulting dig at Obama, with your "dutiful conformist" charge. Maybe he was, in some regards, if you care to make a case, but as the Washington Post reported earlier this year:

"Obama's signature effort was a push for mandatory taping of interrogations and confessions. It was opposed by prosecutors, police organizations and Ryan's successor, Democrat Rod Blagojevich, who said it would impede investigators.

"Working under the belief that no innocent defendant should end up on death row and no guilty one should go free, Obama helped get the bill approved by the Senate on a 58 to 0 vote. When Blagojevich reversed his position and signed it, Illinois became the first state to require taping by statute."

He gathered major support for things with little political reward, bring as many people as he could on board. This isn't the work of the apparatchik you describe.

Good Morning All - Should be a great day. Of course I did turn on the TV to see MoJo ask Obama if he performed miracles with the laying on of hands.

At some point when does cheerleading on this level become Election tampering? Divialicious had it about right last night with this:

"The same MSM that allowed the Bush Administration manipulate us headlong into Iraq,

The same folks who sold everyone on the romance of a son stepping into his father's shoes, to bring "dignity back to the White House,"

The same folks bringing us the Hope(tm) and Change(tm) inevitability of MObama, who after all, isn't a man, but a movement?"

So......

What happened to Sheila's and my comment?

God Bless.

I must still be asleep. I could have sworn I posted it here, however I found it on the last post so here it is.

Good morning Sheila and colleen.

I got into it a little last night too. Oh well, that's politics for you.

Have a good day. Have to get off now, at work. See you all later.

Take care and God Bless.

Elvis

That is an excellent piece of state legislation which makes me wonder, In the face of proven torture by our current administration and those lost CIA types, why has Obama not presented a similar piece of legislation on a Federal level? Was he the one who created it in Illinois or did he just sign on to a piece already presented by someone else?

It's the law of the inertia of the do-nothing Congress. An object at rest tends to stay at rest.

Really tired of celeb endorsements for all of the candidates. I care what Deniro thinks because...?
But, getting really creeped out by Chuck Norris sitting beside Huckabee during interviews. I never see Chuck's mouth move & it makes Mike look like a ventriloquist's dummy.

Let the voter fraud begin!

"...some voting experts expressed fears that Internet ballots were vulnerable to tampering..."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080205/ap_on_el_pr/us_elections_overseas_voting

Gotta admit that the really neat thing to happen during Hillary's on line/Hallmark event was seeing Chelsea Clinton come up on screen to address the possible next leader of the free world as:

HI MOM!!!

Caught some of last night's Dan Abrams show on its rebroadcast last night. He was trying to have a discussion about the difference in the presses coverage of Clinton & Obama. Everyone kept to the line that it wasn't negative on Clinton, but Obama is the story, because he is the story.

I guess since there is supposodly little difference in proposed policy, between the two, it has to be new vs old. And Obama is "new". Reminds me of Tide "New & Improved". It turned out that it was the packaging that was new the stuff inside was still the same.

I just don't buy that Obama is going to be this huge agent of change. If he is, it will be the miracle of the ages akin to reversing gravity. The entire system of government is designed to make change incremental, remember three branches of government.... Anyway, as far as I can tell, even McCain has more of a record of working with the opposition party to pass legislation which incidently, has often been unpopular with the base of the republican party.

I am mainly watching "Mike and Mike" this morning.

When a commercial comes on, I switch to "Imus" or "Morning Joe". (IMHO)the Clinton bashing, on Morning Joe, is through the roof!!

I have turned on MJ 3 times. Each time they are saying the exact same thing...."People do not say they do not like Hillary, they are saying they do not like the Clintons...blah, blah, blah".

If MSNBC is dedicated to having a 12 hr "Bash Clinton Fest" today...at least they could be a bit more creative, with their comments. :)

I am starting to think they are feeling desperate.

Inspiration for today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9hlzB-44Fw

M--Mika
S--Scarborough
N--Nastily
B--Bash
C--Clintons

MSNBC ;)

Yeah, New Coke sounded like a great idea until everyone got a taste of it & there was no repeat business; it only lasted a few months. The tried & true is much better...Hil'ry is Classic.

What is going on with the Calif Poll numbers. Reuters/CSpan/Zogby has Obama up by 13 49-36 but SurveyUSA has Clinton up by 10 52-42. That just does not make any sense.

Don't take this the wrong way but the media is acting like Obama is the flavor of the month. Bashing Hillary is just getting old.

I thought is was halarious that Imus was ordering a bagel when Jay Severin was going on and on and on about how great Romney is and how awful McCain is. I bet Imus would have banned Severin if he had used the Juan McCain spew he has been using on his afternoon show out of Boston.

Don't forget Imus backed Kerry and looked what happened to him. I might not want his endorsement.

Most endorsement have a short shelf life.

I can see why Imus backs McCain, he took him to Walter Reed and left a big impact on him.

CNN is running all day Super Tuesday coverage. At least it will be a break from the non stop Clinton bashing. They only do it about once an hour instead of every ten minutes on the Morning Load.

"Washington Wins Again" Really? Rather than argue policy, maybe we need to take risks. How long has it been since this country had hopes, and dreams, and motivation, and energy. Bob Herbert shares his thoughts

Winds of Change

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/opinion/05herbert.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

Get ready for MSM spin---even if Hillary wins, she loses. Sure get tired of the expectations game. How about just counting delegates? But that would be too fair. Amazing how much MSM can get away with these days--selective use of polls, clipped quotes, outright lies by on-air "talent(?)", etc.

...grabbing the "clicker" and switching to CNN

thanks, Jamie :)

Corey......andy walks with you.......lol

Just don't listen...

Go to Washington Journal or something less partisan. Don't get yourselves upset. Too early in the morning. Now put a DVD in and turn the Cable back on around 7pm tonight.

;0)

mornin' all.

Woke up to a cloudy 61 degree morning - on Feb. 5? Of course we're in that gap between the Northern and Southern jet streams, so weather is, umm, interesting during the winter.

Craig, my man, I agree completely. Has Obama's 3 years in the senate been marked by his monumental stands against all odds in support of legislation that challenged the status quo? Did he even do that with his "landmark" ethics bill? Well, not so much. Ironically, the senator who least represents change is the one who is in the strongest position going forward into the rest of primary season. Would Obama or Clinton represent change? Maybe - certainly no candidate will continue the tone of arrogance taht Bushco has elevated to high art, or at least I hope to God they won't. AS I said a fewe days ago - tension is built into our system, and changing the tone in Washinton (if that's the change the Big O has in mind) is unlikely. As a few of the sage commenters here have pointed out - presidents don't make law, they sign laws. Bowman makes a good point about change in Washington being akin to reversing gravity. Is change doomed to failure? No. Is it doomed to small steps? You bet.

This should have pissed Obama and his staff off.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/02/04/clinton-chairman-obama-would-be-good-running-mate/

Nice to read that I am not the only one thinking that MSNBC, and most other networks are doing a bashing job on the Clintons. Has anyone read the article by Robin Morgan yet?

Excellent reading Robin Morgan
http://womensspace.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/good-bye-to-all-that-part-ii-by-robin-morgan/

Now that was weird. A news person arguing with a woman who has decided to vote for Hillary ... "have you heard who is most electable' "Did you know both health plans are similar"

this is an historic time in america... where america decides whether a woman, an african-american, and a mormon walk into a bar instead of the white house

---kerith foster......(paraphrased)

'World's oldest columnist' dies

Rose hacker was a former author and sex therapist
A Londoner believed to be the world's oldest newspaper columnist has died at the age of 101.
Rose Hacker, who wrote a column every fortnight for the Camden New Journal, died after a short illness.

'World's oldest columnist' dies

short illness at age 101......doesnt get much better than that, I guess.........

Gordo, exactly - last night Abrams put up a graphic that compared the positive stories in the media for Obama and Clinton - Stories about the Big O were 81% positive versus 54% positive for Clinton (I may be a little off on the percentages, but they were in those ranges). Even Abrams said that coverage has been unfairly favorable for Obama. He had some blonde apologist on who was trying to justify the slanted coverage, who he was giving essentiall WTFs to.

vadaryl - they're nuts, arent they. And which one or ones are you gonna believe? Pollster is reporting CA polls done over 3 of the last 5 days that range from a 12 point Clinton advantage to a 4 point Obama advantage - that's a 16 point range. I've been amused at the newsies trying to average all the poll results. It's been a while since I took my stat classes, but I seem to recall one thing that you cannot do is average different poll results.

dog, you keep it safe as you travel the country, keeping it safe for democracy.

Joe Scarborough just asked Tom Brokaw a question assuming we might be electing an African-American President..Tom interjected "or a woman".

I hope they are paying Tom lots of money to have to sit there.

The Robin Morgan article was excellent.
Thank you

OD, let me say I am happy to have you around here - I appreciate your thoughtful comments, civil approach to political discourse & hope you'll hang around.

Browkaw could mop the floor up and down with Scared-borough. He was an idiot in congress and he's an idiot as a so called political "analyst".

Robin Morgan:

Young political Kennedys –Kathleen, Kerry, and Bobby Jr. — all endorsed Hillary. Sen. Ted, age 76, endorsed Obama. If the situation were reversed, pundits would snort “See? Ted and establishment types back her, but the forward-looking generation backs him.” (Personally, I’m unimpressed with Caroline’s longing for the Return of the Fathers. Unlike the rest of the world, Americans have short memories. Me, I still recall Marilyn Monroe’s suicide, and a dead girl named Mary Jo Kopechne in Chappaquiddick.)

How long before Obama people come in her GLOATING about their candidate and blah blah blah about what a "rhymes with witch" Hillary is? We all know the regulars. I haven't been here very long and it doesn't take too much time to notice them; (with a few notable exceptions) they are the ones who think if you vote for Obama you vote for change, if you vote for Hillary you vote because she's a woman. They are the ones who will say "the only reason Hillary is where she is today is because of Bill". Of course they won't say "the only reason Obama is where he is today is because of affirmative action. They will say any criticism of Obama is steeped in racism; any supportive messages for Hillary are simply the estrogen mafia spouting off again.

This is my take on the whole thing. I am soooo FED UP. Watching from Europe it is clear to me that he MSM has indeed facilitated the "momentum" stories about Obama and basically given him a free ride. The stories about Hillary has not be of substance... more like "Bill is quieter now".

And if I sound pissed, sorry I am.

Thank you

Average polling error in SC 16.6% against BHO.

The real story at the end of today will be who polled close and who was wildly wrong and why?

Hi Oregon Dem,

I haven't intriduced myself officially. Welcome.

I just wanted to say something very off topic. (1) My family has a long history in Salem...I am wondering how long you've lived there. YOu might know my Aunt and cousins.

(2) nice to have another one who is intelligent, thoughtful, and even handed with your views.

I just got done watching Abrams video from last night.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23002971#23002971

Now if we could only get Abrams to cover the returns tonight. He did a good job last night with the state wide coverage and he didn't play into the pundits word games.

Thank you Pogo. I was attracted to this site because I find Craig to be smart about politics. He also has a good sense of humor. I know people feel passionately about politics and we all sometimes go a bit overboard. I hope I will be forgiven for my moments of excess.
Also, whoever puts together the election graphics for
CNN should get an award..I like it when John King and others touch the states board and all kinds of information pops up..very helpful.

Sturgeone, I am CONVINCED that if she were alive, Jackie would have supported Hillary. In Hillary's autobiography, she talks about how much she leaned on Jackie during the rough times under the scrutiny of the White House spotlight.

Euro,

The majority of Obama Supporters here keep silent becaue most of the posts have been "Pick a Fight" posts. Except for a few times, the majority of us have let you guys express your views.

In our opinion, you guys have your freedom of expression. However, don't put words into our mouths. That's all we ask. If you have seen something from one person, especially someone who is new here. Do not assume they speak for the rest.

OK Off The Stump!

And now Euro Tom, Enjoy the rest of the journey. We're only half way to the finish line. ;0)

Robin Morgan article--works for me.

Thanks, linda-in- wisconsin

mornin' sturg - what's poppin'? I've found the Kennedy endorsement picture fairly ironic as well. Teddy may have at one time been associated with the optimism associated with his brothers, but those days are long past. He may be the lion of the liberal wing of the Dem party in the Senate, but change is not something I associate with his name. I have found interesting the tension between his desire to protect his Cape Cod property from the visual encroachment of the proposed windfarm in the Atlantic off Cape Cod that I am sure Bobby Jr. would support.

OK...with all the "Obama slurping" Scarborough is doing...I don't, for one second, believe JS would actually vote for BHO for President.

I think JS is one of those republicans, who fear HRC, as their worst nightmare...and would love to have BHO as the Dem nominee, in Nov.

...I'm just sayin'

Sheila..thank you..have lived in Salem since the late 70's. Nice place..one hour to beach, close to skiing and only 40 minutes to Portland..

When the "poll leads" for Obama vanish in California
it will just be another opportunity to call voters racists

"Except for a few times, the majority of us have let you guys express your views"

?????????????????????????????????????????

JFTR, here's how I plan on voting...

Clinton v Obama --Clinton

Clinton v McCain --Clinton
Clinton V Romney --Clinton

Obama v McCain --*McCain
Obama v Romney --Obama

*if Giulani is McCain's VP...I will vote for Obama :)

Clinton/Obama '08 :)

Anyone voting for Obama today should read the article by Robin Margan at womensspace wordpress.com. Puts things in a new light.

Let me introduce myself. I am a teacher, who tutors dyslexic students after school. Most of the day, I have the news on. My major being broadfield social science, with a minor in history has always made me a political junkie. I haven't seen as much buzz on the internet since the mess in the 2000 election.

I wrote to Craig a while back, complimenting him on his coverage, and he invited me to join this blog. I have been reading for awhile, just testing the water. See, I don't like most of the comments at the blogs on CNN because they seem to be filled with personal, unresearched hate.

This is the first presidental election I have watched on cable TV, and I was getting so angry at the media and those one-sided pundits; especially after Iowa. I just had to search for opinions other than what I was paying to listen to.

Thanks Craig for the referral!!

Welcome Linda,

We have been a bit hotter under the collar than usual with the intensity of the Clinton / Obama competition, but usually we try to keep it reasonably civil in here ... Our jovial host doesn't like it when the kids squabble too much. :-)

Welcome Linda,
Tutoring dyslexic students, now that's a noble pastime.

Linda in Wisc., welcome aboard. Let me suggest that there will be some measure of the same type comments you don't like at the CNN blog sites, but that is pretty much ineveitable in the context of a political blog. Most people here try to be thoughtful in their discourse, recognizing that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but that said, everyone here whose opinion differs from one you hold and express will jump in with both feet and argue, some more personal, some more substantive about why you are wrong. I recommend ignoring the personal attacks and arguing the substantive ones. Any way, have fun.

Thank you for the welcome Jamie............I don't mind the squabbling; in fact I enjoy a good debate, especially about politics. It is the hateful words towards someone that I don't appreciate. Do people really think that those words are going to change someone's opinion about a candidate? Bottom line is words that you wouldn't let your children or students say, maybe shouldn't be said by you as an adult.

I am just going to say thanks to everyone for the welcome.......don't want to start out on the wrong foot. Now that being said, let's get down to the one question that is on everyones mind, "who is going to win today?"

Is anyone else nervous about the returns? I am having a hard time getting those lesson plans ready for today. Morning Joe is about to make me start putting brandy in my coffee. I try to look at him as a weird Jon Steward, but it ain't working this morning.

Would not the 2 million people that have already voted in Cal not perhaps tilt it towards her. Why is the media so crazy? When I count the states that it appears that she is ahead, and the ones that seem to go to him there is no question who is ahead. It blows my mind. Is there something I am missing?

Nietzsche was dyslexic..........he actually meant "Dog is dead."

"While the right wing nut is railing, could you get me a bagel?"

---Imus, off mike, while severin is on the air

Betty,
"Would not the 2 million people that have already voted in Cal not perhaps tilt it towards her. "

Is California an open primary? I'm curious out the 2 million that have already what number voted in the Democratic and Republican primaries.

Snicker. Let's rename today.

http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/03/super-tuesday-its-all-about-the-name/index.html

BTW, Laissez le bon temps roulez!!!

From this mornings San Francisco Chronicle

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?"file=/c/a/2008/02/05/BAM5US1B5.DTL&type=printable

"But just four years ago, current Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama is said to have declined to have his picture taken in San Francisco with Newsom, who was then at the center of a national uproar over his decision to allow same-sex marriage in San Francisco."

kind of like voting present

From Kos --
____________________
Only hours before the polls open, two of the biggest polling operations have turned in their final verdict on today's vote in California.  And the verdict is: someone is really, really, really wrong.

California (370 Delegates)

Reuters / Zogby 2/4
Barack Obama 49%
Hillary Clinton 36%

Okay, Obama supporters.  Get those cheers out of your system.  Ready for the next one?

California (370 Delegates)

Survey USA
Hillary Clinton 52%
Barack Obama 42%

Don't scream yourself hoarse, Hillary fans.  
________________________

There is only one thing to ask: WTF?

I think if Obama wins, I'll have a hard time getting over the whole media love fest we've had to endure these past 3 months. This whole thing feels very planned and organized to me. They expected Hillary to just wither away, and when she didn't the MSM was ready with swords and daggers to shred her apart. I am also convinced that Ted Kennedy, in tandem, strong-armed other Democrats to support Obama.

If Obama gets the nomination, the ONLY way I will vote is if Hillary Clinton is VP nominee. Short of that, I'll vote another party. And sorry, but all the gloating in here the last week has just deepened my determination. not to point any fingers are .. well never mind. :-)

California has a half open primary. Declined to states may vote in the Democratic Primary not the The Republican and if you are a Green or other named party you cannot cross over.

arriba arriba, anda le, anda le......eeeeeeehah

----Speedy Gonzalez

I think Imus just really stomped all over jay severin.....damn that was funny.......

putting brandy in my coffee

Hi Linda from Wisconsin
here is a weird little factoid
2/3 of the Brandy production of Korbel is shipped to Wisconsin.

(the speedy quote was in conjunction with Pogo's "laissez le bon temps roulez")

See, sturg, I knew there was a reason I wish I had SKTV on my cable. I would have peed myself if I had heard Imus utter that line.

LIW, yesterday I preicted that Hillary will take 60% of the delegates at issue today - still think that. Many people will focus on who wins what state - wrong target IMHO. Delegates are the target from now until the end of the silly season.

dnd - good question. Stay tuned after 11:00 (EST) tonight and maybe we'll get an answer.

Nice to get a Mexican slant on Mardi Gras, sturg - Mexico being my favorite beyond the borders trip.

Pogo.....it was more than that line......it SOUNDED like severin actually may have pissed him off (you never know, except that time with tucker carlson).....the bagel bit went thru the whole thing.....severin was dissing McCain heartily......and severin actually said that if McCain was the nominee he would stay home......Imus asked him then if McCain were the nominee severin and rush and hannity etc would rather see Hillary pres than vote for mccain......severin said yes......
bunch of right wing bozos

For dems, here's what today is all about.

http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/supertuesday/democraticpreview/index.html

kc, that link you posted brings up a threshold page - could you post a link from the page it should link to?

Sturgeone

My most conservative friend said the same thing. He would rather not vote -- if it's McCain.

I don't see where McCain Feingold has stopped them from spewing their garbage. I don't get it at all.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/05/BAM5US1B5.DTL

Hi guys, checking in from GA.

Our local ABC affiliate is reporting that there are lots of problems with voting machines. From my quick read of their article, looks like the problems are in Democratic strong holds. Wow, what a shock! LOL

I think this is a preview of what will happen in the GE. Doesn't matter here, though. This will be a RED state for generations.

Interesting sidenote: This is the first full year under the Republican Secretary of State. I thought I read that she is the first Republican SOS but I'm not positive about that. The main point is, there was a mass exodus of staff when she took over and it has left the SOS short-staffed for elections. Makes sense, you know how Republicans feel about Murikans actually having the right to vote!

sturg - I would have loved to hear it. Severin is gloming off Coulter, I guess - she said she would campaign for Hillary over McCain.

ET - how long have you lived in Belgium and voted absentee in the US?

Checking in from WA...and wondering how today's results will impact our caucuses coming up this Saturday. Morning, all!

Thanks, kc, that worked. Chuckle, snort.

Karen, I think that's spelled 'Mur'cans, but you may be right. :-)

I think Conservatives saying they will stay home if the Repub nominee is McCain is a temporary opinion.

They'll flock to the polls once they realize that this country may actually have an African-American or woman as President.

They won't be able to sit on their hands and let it happen ... as much as they say they would. Trust me, if McCain wins the Republican nomination the right-wing slime machine will fall in lock-step right behind him. Count on them to come up with some creative way to account for their 180 and trash the Dem nominee at the same time.

Pogo: Thanks for the correction! LOL

HW
The main impact of todays vote will be instant inlightenment and the choice will be obvious. Therefor after today there will only be peace and harmony, Except of course for a few nut cases and if they would just adjust their meds...........

Jack

"has left the SOS short-staffed for elections. Makes sense, you know how Republicans feel about Murikans actually having the right to vote!"

Must have gone to the Ken Blackwell school of Voter Supression

Right wing radio will find a way to support McCain no matter what. It will be fun watching Hannity doing a full circle.

GAKaren, you're welcome - I live to serve. How would you like to be addressed in shorthand? I try to keep it to 3 letters, but sometimes (e.g. sturg, & renee) I make exceptions. Oh, and I'm not consistent, either.

Today might settle things for the Repugs, but maybe not for the Dems.

It could be a draw, and the battle will continue.

Give me another shot of thorazine.

what is behind Huckie staying in the race. On the other side why did Edwards pull out.

Patsi

The survey usa pole that has HRC way ahead has some interesting internal numbers. Its sample of likely voters was almost 60% women and half of the sample was over 50. I think that would make the poll tilt toward HRC.

Jack

I think Edwards dropped out because the unions supporting him wanted to switch to other candidates.

Who says you have to be an "outsider" to bring about change?

JFK & LBJ were senators.

Both brought about significant change.

Jack, LOL. Peace, haemony and unity through primary electoral politics.

vaD - Sean has left himself the out to support McCain - in fact, when I heard the AH arguing with AC yesterday, he was strongly in McCain's camp, although I've heard him extol the virtues of Huckleberry and maybe even Romney. He's just a Repug tool and will be like I am, voting for his party's nominee - I'm just happy he's in NY, so his vote in Nov. will be wasted - I'm in WV, so mine may or may not.

But why before today. I could see him dropping out tomorrow.

KGC: Can you take the Blackwell course online? Is our favorite former FL SOS a guest instructor?

Pogo: Shorthand is fine. I'm only computer literate to a point. Know just enough to be dangerous.

I think Scarborough had it right this AM: Huckabee in the race splits the conservative vote between him and Romney, so McCain benefits.

Edwards out means that most of his supporters will go to Obama, at least that's how I read it.

Brooks at NYT today says the Dem race is "Dreamers vs Realists."

It appears the end of the world as we know it is upon us...

It's Super-Duper Tuesday, Fat Tuesday, The Chinese New Year, and out here in Central Iowa, they're forecasting upwards of 15" of snow tonight....

Enjoy the holiday of your choice! -- Spike

"KGC: Can you take the Blackwell course online? Is our favorite former FL SOS a guest instructor?"

lol no doubt ,,,a featured speaker

LOL, Jack! Peace, harmony and unity will be a welcome diversion from the food fight of the past few weeks!

The generational divide, a mother and son exchange letters on the Democratic choices.Talking passed each other in my opinion.
http://www.nplusonemag.com/

Jack

Edwards voters are splitting between Clinton and Obama. It depends on their age and income.
Clinton picks up the lower income demographic
and Obama the others.

isn't Imus support of McCain based on the fact that Imus was born in Az? Do you think the lean that Imus is taking to the right has to do with the fact that he is now on Hillbilly TV? I am not sure I would want an Imus endorsement. I think he only had one of his endorsements win last time and that was Lieberman. How can all you Imus lovers over look the Lieberman love fest? What was that right wing tools name from Penn and don't forget that other right wing tool from AZ that got beat.?

yo soy Horsedooty!

Second that Harbor.

A nice thought indeed!

Since I am a newbie I've been wondering why everyone here subjects themselves to watching/listening Dead-Intern Boy and friends each AM. Is Craig a regular on the show? I can't fathom why anyone would listen to Joe for more than a few minutes. I used to watch him sometimes after Countdown but he has been insufferable since his move to the AM.

According to CNN...There are 4049 delegate on the dems side, with a total of 2025 needed to win the majority. Hillary has 232, and Obama has 158 right now. I say that by the time the votes are counted tonight or tomorrow morning that Hillary will have the majority...........giving her the lead. Now the PEW polls have her in the lead, they count Florida, but not Michigan. (I can't figure that one.) So if you throw in MI & FL, Hillary 1400, Obama 1000.

So keep the brandy coming!! Most people in WI drink Aristocrat!!

HW

fortunately most of it has been on the level of a food fight. A lot of noise and mess but no real damage.

Jack

Dreamers: Jefferson, Adams, Frankiln, Washington.

Realists: Those who swore loyalty to King George III
(Their descendants now live in Atlantic Canada and have health insurance).

Horse: Are you referring to Rick "Man/Dog Love" Santorum from PA? I don't remember the AZ right-wing tool you're referring to.

Imus will never support Hillary so he chose McCain because McCain took him to Walter Reed and that had a lifetime affect on him

jack, I don't get the Survey USA sampling either - in the 2004 pres. election, 53.5% of the voters were women - but not 60%. Unless SUSA believes that 60% of the voters in tis election will be women, it's hard to justify that sample.

Karen, what shorthand will you recognize as being addressed to you? I'm terribly lazy but like to call folks what they like to be called.

GaKaren: We listen to Morning Joe because we are insatiable political junkies and there isn't anything else on at that hour. Most of us used to listen to Imus.

I like to listen and yell, "No, no, no! You freaking right wing a-hole!"

It helps me to wake up.

forget the polls they are all over the place. Is it a media hype to get ratings tonight, get people out to vote?

WE LET THE MEDIA STEER US INTO THE BUSH PRESIDENCY........WE LET THE MEDIA GET US INTO A WAR WE SHOULDNT HAVE EVEN THOUGHT OF BEING IN.........NOW THE MEDIA IS TRYING TO SHOVE A CANDITATE DOWN OUR THROATS WHO IS A SENATOR FOR 3 YEARS ........WHO IS A CON ARTIST WHOS TALKS BEAUTIFUL BUT SAYS NOTHING.......ARE WE ALL IDIOTS ????????

Nash: "Dreamer/Realist" is in the eye of the beholder. From where I'm sitting, our country needs both a realist and a dreamer this time around. We've got a huge mess to clean up that will require new ideas as well as a huge dose of reality.

The media does think we are a bunch of idiots.

thank you GAKaren that is him. The other guy was a Representative name was like JD something used to be a radio guy big voice. That is all I can remember,

yo soy Horsedooty!

In 2004 did they wait until all states voted before announcing the winners or did they announce as each state closed their polls

Pogo: How about GAK? Or does that sound too much like Bill the Cat? LOL

Nash: Thanks for the info ... that is a good way to wake up. It would raise my blood pressure too high, though. : )

nash, Brooks commenting on the Dem race is worthy of about half a second of our attention. I've tried to read him over the years, and every time I think he's starting to be a bit more fair, he shows his true leanings. It would be like me trying to do an evenhanded analysis of the Repug race - I might get a few points right, but because of my general disdain for all things repug I'd get more of them wrong. His goal in every column about dems is to diminish the dems he's writing about.

GAKaren...Not everyone here watches Morning Joe. I gave them up some time ago...way too sophomoric for my taste. That said, however, I do enjoy Imus, who is way too sophomoric for the tastes of some others on this blog. To each their own, I suppose....

doots...Imus is a registered Republican, but I think he leans in interesting directions, given whichever winds blow him there. I understand his affection for the likes of Hannity, given the support he got from that quarter last April, but I don't enjoy it. It all smacks a little too much of convenience for me.

Jack...Food fights!?! I remember food fights! Taken with a sense of humor, can generate some fun....

zumper

please stop screaming

Even with his friendship with McCain I am surprised that Imus did not jump on the Obama parade since he does go whichever way the wind is blowing. He supported McCain to soon before the Obama took off

Pogo

I suspect that they didn't control for sex in their most likely voter sample. They should have in their first sample from which the most likely to vote was screened, however. To me it would make it an outlier and not very reliable.

Jack

GAK it is - (not to be confused with ack)). LOL indeed.

HD, that right wing tool from PA was Rick Santorum - I saw him endorsing McCain (I think) this morning - talk about the kiss of death. The right wing tool from AZ was J.D. Hayworth - he and Hannity used to have mutual suck-up fests. I guess even the AZ voters thought he was over the top.

Here's an article about the primary vs. caucus food fight going on in WA State...

Our caucuses are this Saturday, Feb. 9, but our primary (which is costing 9 million dollars and doesn't even count for Dems) is Feb. 19.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/story/273555.html

Santorum is a Romney supporter
that should tell you everything about Romney

Pogo: I agree. I could never rise to more than a partisan hack if I had to make my living at political commentary. I find it hard to be objective about Repugs. Especially since I've moved down to GA smack in the middle of Republican Hell.

In fact, I would have dearly loved to be some sort of a hacker that could have beamed Hillary's Hallmark channel town hall into the homes and businesses of my neighbors. Imagine Hillary being on every channel as they grabbed their remotes in desperation. Heads would have exploded everywhere. Don't think Obama supporters would like it either come to think of it.

IMO, people are being seduced by BHO(like one would be seduced by a lover), because he "gives great speech". ;)

We have all heard, "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is". MSM has been selling Obama since the 04 Dem convention. Unfortunately, millions of Americans bought the product. When they awaken (the question is when, not if) from the media-created "Fairy Tale", the backlash against Obama will be amusing (and sad).

Jack, you may be right, but that would be one hellof a control oversight considering the advantage Hillary has held among women in the previous contests. But whatever the reason, I agree it is an outlier with that high a proportion of women in the sample and its results are suspect at best.

Just as I was, my kids have been raised into a house with a lot of political expression.

My 11 yr old daughter went for Obama.

My 8 yr old son broke early for Edwards.

Daughter also got a Pomeranian puppy last summer, so son put up a Cats for Edwards sign on his door.to counter the Dogs for Obama.

He has now switched to Obama. Now the race is focused on who will prevail-
Mutt Romney,
John McCanine
or Bark Obama

We could not come up with a name for Hillary - but heard this morning that they came up with Hillary Kitten.

GAKaren,

the right wing tool I spoke of from Az is JD Hayworth. Got beat.

yo soy Horsedooty!

AT LAST! It's here.

At LONG last.

tt

Geez, It's been 6-7 months since I've made this argument, but I'll make it again. I don't give a hoot for Imus' political perspective. The reason he's in a completely different league than MoJo is that he knows how to conduct an interview. On MoJo, you get talking points from guests, when they get a chance to speak. On Imus he somehow gets his guests to talk like it's a one-on-one off the record conversation.

Just one more cow...

Thanks for the poll info, Jack....that makes sense. Why would they even use a poll using 60% women, and older ones at that?

Kathy

Your children are doing political geek puns,!!!!!

LOL

way to go

jack

This will have more meaning to those from WA, but it made me happy this morning....

"Reichert behind Burner in funds"...now if he'll also be behind her in votes come November!

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/northwest/story/274504.html

thanks POGO I did not see your post as I was off trying to search for Hayworths name.

yo soy Horsedooty!

KC, so it was Romney that I saw Santorum endorsing? OK,we can now officially declare his candidacy dead (and good riddance).

GAK, I can see I'm gonna enjoy your presence here. What part of GA are you in and where'd you immigrate to GA from? (I'm an old Bama boy lawyer who's been in NH, ME, VA and now WV.)

God! The front just hit here - horizontal rain. At least it'swarm. Maybe I'll order Cajun delivered today.

Kathy,
It's clear that your kids are politically more astute that most of the chattering class in the media.

dnd...

Re: your 11:05...Amen!

First time poster here. I've been reading y'all for months. Full disclosure: I'm an Edwards supporter who knocked on 100's of doors in NH on his behalf-well actually on my behalf and on behalf of the poor. Voting in Massachusetts today, hence: "whattodo".
Just wanted to to say 'spot on" to the earlier post re: Morning Jo love affair with Obama .Of course repugs would love to have him as dem. nominee. Final election result: McCain by a lot.
Well I'm off to vote. What to do, what to do?

dnd, you are certainly right about Imus' ability to interview a guest and Joe's inability to do the same - Joe went to the Sean Hannity school of interviewing - Talk over your guest, demean any ideas you don't agree with, cut off their mike when it's clear they are going to make you look like the idiot you are.

Imus said if he was to vote in the democratic primary it would be for Obama. I heard that on my way to work during the 6:00 AM segment. He also said that he did not hate Hillary but called her Satan because he thought it was funny. He also noted that he had found out that a lot of other people didn't think it was funny.

I spoke with a friend at work who voted for Hillary this morning in Massachusetts. Based on that information, Hillary is winning since I haven't talked to anybody that voted for Obama. What is my margin of error with a sample of 1?

Pogo thanks for the question. I left the USA in September 1998 and lived in THe Netherlands til August 2001. Since I left I have always voted absentee... it's no biggie for me, I even always voted absentee while living in Washington state. :D

Welcome Whattodo-

So who are you choosing today?

Where did you canvass in NH and where are you from in MA?

I think IO posted this link yesterday but I was looking at it again because of the so called Boomers and under 30 split between Obama supporters and HRC supporters.
If you scroll down There is a graphic that throws most of the generational arguments in the trash can.
under 30 breaks to Obama
GenX breaks to HRC
boomers break to Obama
Silent generation break to HRC

Jack

The rain just hit here in Nashville too, Pogo. It broke up a big rally-for-Obama at one of the major intersections near me. Even though he's not my candidate in the primary, I felt bad for the 20 or so young guys (not a single female...oddly) who had their signs out and were chanting We Can Do IT or whatever that is. They stood in the rain for a while, but by the time I drove back by they were having to break up camp. Good for them for getting out, though...because it would have been too cold for me even before the rain!

Jack, link?

pogo

oops

http://www.gallup.com/poll/104119/Clinton-Obama-Tied-Both-Satisfying-Democrats.aspx

YES... great comment from Hillary last night on Letterman, my sentiments exactly !!!
"Turning serious, Letterman asked whether all the money the presidential candidates are raising might be better spent feeding the poor and hungry. Clinton agreed that it wasn't a good way to run campaigns.

"That's why we should go to public financing," she said.
""

Yes yes yes... !!! Give every viable candidate the EXACT same dollar amount. Require the media to provide access. Remember, the people own the airwaves, not the corporations who manage them... and reduce the damn election period into about a fourth of what it is now.

Ok Hillary only spoke about public financing of elections, but I took it a step further.

Patsi, oddly enough, it's already passed here - lasted maybe 20 minutes. Radar says it ain't done yet, but may do that delivery option anyway - the thougth of cajun food on mardi gras is just too good to pass on.

OK, question for all - What is the perfect drink for Super Duper Fat Tuesday? I'm going to need to make one or four to sit and watch the election coverage after going to watch Little Pogo's basketball team get their clocks cleaned tonight.

pogo, a Zombie.

tt

Thanks CRAIG for pointing me to this blog, this more what I like to read.
I wonder what people will do when they wake up and realize that O bama is nothing more than a poet quoting poetry and trying to imulate mlk and jfk. This all reminds me of when THE BIG W was being elected, we all wanted to have a beer with the great uniter. Now Obama is the great uniter with no substance.
Paul Krugman writes today that the Clinton Health Care package is more realistic than the Obama one.
One of my gripes is Ted Kennedy so enamoured with GW that he signed on to No Child Left Behind, I have two sisters who are school teachers and they both retired because of the mess the education system is in because of this program.
Now we can't stand the thought of Bill CLINTON anywhere near the white house but its ok for the bungling TED to be there to guide Obama.

Just so we don't forget what we should be doing today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty2ui0vY5Os&feature=related

thanks Jack - interesting article- a lot more unity among dems than repugs - nice to see.

tt - Zombie sounds good - I love Rum and Citrus

Betty-

Welcome here-

One of the many reasons I was for Dean last time as the choice was clear- record of accomplishment as gov, fiscal conservative, socially progressive, pro health reform, and against Iraq war but for Afghanistan.

I could go for Kerry or Edwards b/c they were too much in lock stop with Bush- pro Patriot Act, Iraq War and NCLB-

I will proudly support Hillary if she is the nominee, but before you go knocking Ted for NCLB, remember HRC voted for it too.

When I look at BHO, I see a man of color.

Because BHO is a man of such color, I am having an extremely difficult time visualizing him as President in '08.

I am not a racist.

The color I see, when I look at BHO is green.

GREEN
(as defined by Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary):

9 a: deficient in training, knowledge, or experience

b: deficient in sophistication and savoir faire

c: not fully qualified for or experienced in a particular
function

Clinton/Obama '08
Obama/??? '16 :)

betty, welcome aboard - it is really good to see all the new folks here - we old timers have become kind of like a collective old married couple and need some new voices to join in and get us out of our rut. 163 comments in 5 hours is pretty impressive - hope Craig gets paid based on thenumber of comments posted :-).

Linda- Don't you think that if the main criteria were experience, Bill Richardson would be the nominee by now? He had the depth and the breadth.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Question for all

How many of you have read "Team of Rivals"

Lush, let's hope he ripens a bit between now and Nov. if he ends up winning the nom. Even if he doesn't, I'll vote for the kid against the old fart if the kid gets the nod.

kathy, my take on experience in politics is that it is necessary but not sufficient. BR, Dood or Biden would have been able to lay claim to the experience prize - and among the candidates in both parties that are still standing - god help us - McCain has the edge, and we certainly don't want him, do we?

That would be Dodd, not Dood. Sorry, Chris.

Kathy,

Team of Rivals was a great book. The way LIncoln picked his cabinet gave him the advantage of all viewpoints unlike our Prez who when he is informed at all, gets told what he wants to hear.

I got called last night and asked to be a precinct coordinator next Saturday for Clinton. I'll do my best to "herd 'em up and head 'em out" in her direction.

To what is interesting about McCain being the nominee, is that he is being torn apart by the right wing media non-stop- Michelle Malkin, Rush, Glenn Beck, Ann Counter- don't even like typing those names! If he is the nominee is will really show how diminished all those people are and the general conservative movement.

The other thought, is that nearly everyone I know likes McCain or certainly respects him. But those same people think he is just too old. Never mind his positions.

I also hear from "downstream" candidates, that there is concerned about Hillary being at the top of the ballot. Not real dislike necessarily, but concern.

No Country for Majesties

There are no majesties in America. No Kings. No Queens. No Potentates. So people who talk about how much we owe Bill Clinton fail to understand that the only people who "must" vote for Hillary Clinton because of Bill Clinton are those who owe him political family favors.

On one hand are people like John Lewis who cited his long relationship with Bill Clinton as the chief factor in his backing Hillary Clinton. Or entrenched political figures like Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid flexing muscle in Nevada, and David Dinkins and Charlie Rangel pulling straws in New York. Everyone else, however, is fair game. Yet with the former camp trading bulk constituencies and talking about "feeding mouths" versus "feeding emotion", some may wonder how Barack Obama has managed to lead Hillary Clinton in the delegate count (excluding the still in flux supers).

It is because the folks who put the Establishment in power have reasoned differently. Having inherited her candidacy from a political dynasty, Hillary Clinton is less convincing when she rests her argument for further power on experience. People understand that by voting for Hillary because of Bill, we risk replicating the same dysfunctional system that needs change -- a system that is gridlocked because political predators are fighting over scarce capital. They understand that another Clinton presidency and "change" are contradictory terms. Indeed, Clintons’ switch to the change band wagon after the Iowa Caucus was a not-so-subtle maneuver that, like the experience argument, quickly wears thin.

People choose Obama for a number of reasons. First, we know the Obama name in the first instance due to his electoral experience. Obama has served for 11 years as an elected official – 8 years in the Illinois Legislature and 3 years in the US Senate. His record – whether concerning healthcare, crime or civil rights – is rather weighty. His current call for universal health care by 2012 can be linked to one of the 832 bills he sponsored as a State Senator - a proposed amendment to the Illinois Constitution to establish a legal right to universal health care coverage and a passed 2003 law to extend health care coverage to low-income individuals in Illinois. Concerning crime and civil rights, State Senator Obama both won the unanimous endorsement of the police and got officers to support racial profiling studies and legislation mandating police videotape interrogations of criminal suspects.

The second reason is a quite calculated bet that principled and honest leadership will lead to an effective mandate. Back in 2002, Obama opposed the Iraqi war at its outset, calling it "an ill-conceived venture which would require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undermined cost, with undetermined consequences." Call correct. In January 2007, he introduced the Iraqi War De-Escalation Act, a plan the necessity of which is slowly sinking into the minds of even the strongest proponents of the war. Nor is Obama withdrawing from the fight against terrorism: he has called to maintain sufficient forces to target al Qaeda within Iraq while strengthening diplomatic channels and pursuing a more sophisticated counter-terrorism operation in the Middle East. While the Iraq war cannot be won with fear and sloppy logistics, Senator Obama shows that peace can be achieved with the right leadership.

The third reason is simple: Obama connects with ordinary folks because he knows how to listen to them. He has no sense of wounded entitlement; and he bears no traces of the divisions that stopped the U.S. government for weeks in 1994. Rather, his leadership style traces directly to work in the community. Before serving in the State Senate, Barack Obama was a community organizer in the inner cities of Chicago, working at $13,000 a year to rally communities on issues such as steel mill closings and housing. One newspaper comments that "Obama the presidential candidate still shows his roots--a faith in ordinary citizens, a quest for common ground and a pragmatic inclination toward defining issues in winnable ways."

On Race and Politics

The final reason the Obama campaigns portends a Presidency is that he knows how to unify people. And on this point, I would like to discuss race. It has become very popular among certain segments of the American populace to bring up the divisions within the black Community. But folks who care about the Community understand the significance and potential impact of an Obama Presidency. It is not just because Obama has overcome obstacles and then returned to the battleground of poverty to fight for the working class. It is also because, despite all he has accomplished, he cherishes who he is.

An Obama Presidency matters in the eyes of someone who needs a reason to keep moving forward despite the obstacles in the personal lives or the skepticism of political wrangling. It matters even more to the child who does not yet know that a black person cannot become president. In other words, Senator Obama transcends whatever notions we may empty into the psyche of blackness and elevates to hope.

And hope was precisely Dr. King’s legacy: to acknowledge that race is an important issue, fight it whenever it rears its ugly head, but that ultimately seek to be judged apart from it. That we can retain our differences while celebrating the overwhelming commonalities among us is perhaps the most amazing thing about America.

Meat-and-Potatoes

As we move past South Carolina and onto Super Tuesday, Senator Obama shows more than ever that he does not rest on the laurels of "a black man who speaks well." Senator Obama has begun to convince greater swaths of Americans that, among other things, he can (a) balance his criticism of the Iraq war with a credible plan to stabilize the Middle East (b) reform healthcare without starting an untenable and unaffordable standoff between the socialized medicine vs. free market camps and (c) shore up the economy in ways that add more meat-and-potatoes to our plates.

That (partial) lot is a tough gig that no "magical mystery tour", but hard grassroots work and deft political maneuvering, has accomplished. However young though he may appear, Obama is a tough and wise politician who has thrived in and against entrenched political machines. Yes, we can match Bill with Ted, Reid with Leahy, Dinkins with Patrick, and Rangel with more than half a dozen members of the Black Caucus. But that is hardly the point of the Obama Campaign. It is the promise that he can be responsive to those who desire a "reality check", and also to those who understand that a little hope and transformation of current realities may just be what we need.

Center for Media & Public Affairs http://www.cmpa.com/election%20news%202_1_08.htm

Sound like there is a lot of the same echoing on the internet. Could more people be followers than leaders?

I read Team of Rivals and the book gave great insight.

...speaking of "old farts"...

If Americans are looking for some change, it really
doesn't matter who is President.

IMO, what needs to happen is that many of the "old farts", in the house and senate(you know...the ones who have been there for 30-40 years), need to retire.

warren
Obama worked for 13k
Michelle Obama made 300K plus working as a hospital lawyer so what's your point.

and no country for majesties
why is he relying on kennedy myth

AZ has an early mail-in vote too. I voted for Edwards two weeks ago before his bow out. I would really like to see a convention that matters so I'm hoping that a lot of folks who use the early mail-in ballot will have selected Edwards giving him more delegates for August in Denver. The sun is coming out after a very cold overnight (for AZ) with lots of fog this morning. Papers have already claimed McCain winner but say it's too close for the Dems to predict. 67 delegates at stake.

Because Kennedy said: "Ask not what your country can do for you - but what you can do for your country."

I don't think Hillary can use the bully pulpit to force her agenda down the Republicans throat. I think change will happen by moving past the partisan divisions that have inhibited progress and divided not only politicians - but their supporters.

Need to, yes - likely to? No. I have to report that Bob Byrd does not plan to retire when his term is up. Now really, when it comes to being in the senate too long and needing to retire, no one can hold a condle to him.

Interesting diary on what will happen with the Florida delegates-
Voter disenfranchisement argument :

http://www.bluehampshire.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=3447

warren, when you have both houses of congress behind you, you don't have to rely on the bully pulpit to force things down the opposing party's throat - you have to rely on it to force your agenda down your own party's throat. Hillary's is a centrist agenda for the most part, and that is the kind of thing that Congress generally is receptive to. In fairness, with the exception of the mandatory provisions of their respective health care plans, Obama's agenda isn't so different from Hillary's.

Ok, out to lunch for cajun.

Warren is reposting his shit again, word for word. I'll be back tomorrow.

yeah...I think Byrd has been there since '59...Kennedy since, what...'62?

I watched when Kennedy was endorsing BHO. I found his speech to be laugh-out-loud funny, when he was basically saying that HRC represents everything old.

uhhhhhh...Teddy...helloooo!!! LOL!!

oh and Craig, I don't buy this Washington Outsider stuff. Didn't the squatter currently at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue campaign as a Washington outsider? If that is our example, all the more reason NOT to pursue such candidates in the future. EXPERIENCE COUNTS DAMMIT!

BYE

Jamie-thanks for the link Harry Connick on youtube.
We must not forget New Orleans- as hard as we seem to try.

Kathy- I canvassed for John Edwards in the Manchester area. I'm a life long Bostonian who has been volunteering for dems since 1960. That's right-1960. Ok, more full disclosure: I'm old!
Until this week I didn't believe it was possible to be undecided on election day. This is all so humbling.
In spite of my admiration for various Kennedys I won't be checking with the various offspring to ask who their teenage children think it would be cool for me to vote for. For goodness sakes!
Any way my signature isn't "whattodo" for nothing but one thing I know for sure: it won'be Barry Obama. I mean he's likeable.....enough, for the senate.
So it's John or Hillary for me and the pragmatist in me will probably be the actual voter when I mark my ballot.

Warren,

Please do us a favor and don't cut and paste. It takes up way too much bandwidth here. Craig has requested often that is something is published elsewhere on the web, just paste the link please

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2/4/0912/64105/239/449293

I don't have the attention span to read warren's posts/pastes.

I rely on others' responses to figure out the point he is trying to make.

hello all.. late to the party.. but dammit..work sometimes gets in the way...

Welcome to Linda-in-Wisconsin... we sometimes snarl but we dont bite... I hesitate to speak for others, but most of us have said that whoever wins the nomination will then get support from all.

That said, I can't understand why anyone would vote for McCain in the general election... No jobs, 'economy isnt my strong suit" and more wars... that's a helluva platform!

I do find this incredibly exciting... emotional.. a chance to create history no matter which dem candidate you support.. this is AMAZING... and wonderful... just make sure you close ranks afterward, and dont stay home from the polls in November...

obama is a politician.just trying to get votes, like the rest of them,no better or worse

A data point of one.

My wife is very enthusiastic about voting today. She was digging through the file drawer looking for her voter card. She has lived in this neighborhood for 35 years and has never changed her voter name from her maiden name. It use to never matter, all the old women that ran the polling station knew her. With the new machines that are used all the old folks are gone and strangers are running things. So she needs to prove who she is, She is frantic, She is going to vote. I stayed out of her way , safer.

LOL
We got no mailings this election missed to many primaries and don't fit the micro targeting profile.

Almost forgot if she can get her ID straightened out that is a sure vote for HRC.

Jack

Kathy nice piece on the delegates. Would Obama really take the chance of losing the votes in the general if he refuses to seat MI & FL votes for Hillary? Or for that matter, if he runs in 2016?

I read, can not remember, that the lead candidate with the most delegates can seat those delegates in the two states.

Thanks tylenol for letting me know that no one bites here!! LOL

Ladies & Gentelmen, The Grateful Dead (well three of them anyway)

Now the Dead have endorsed Obama. I can visualize a 45 minute drum solo with a bunch of tripping hipsters (no offense to Aging Hipster) chanting "Fired up ready to go". How about Jefferson Airplane and Moby Grape. Big Brother & the Holding Company. Can any one channel Hendrix, Lennon, Joplin, Parsons, Morrison, Jerry.....

hahaha Bowman...'truckinnnnnnnnnn"

I would be curious as to how many in here use texting on their cell phones. Is MSNBC so broke that they have to run a poll (standard texting fees apply) only open to those who text with no internet site option?

Thank you pogo nice to meet up with someone from wva, my home state, oh soo many moons ago.
I am aware that Hillary voted for it, again I blame TED more for the debacle, I listened to his push in the senate, he was hot that day. She was new in the senate, I forgive her for being so new, same as we are being asked to forgive the anointed one. For his missteps and voting present when he was afraid to take a stand. Maybe also I am a little biased because I miffed at TED, because I feel its a womans turn and unlike him she is well prepared .
Last evening I watched a group being analyzed, the question was, which one of Obama's policies are you most interested in, none of them knew anything about any of his policies, they just answered he inspires me. DUH. Pretty words.

Eprof...wouldnt that be great???? a convention that means something!! woohoo!!

CNN

Panel on economy running live on CNN and political repercussions of the sub prime bailout request.

HOW can MSGOP leave Scar on there after his shameless shilling for Romney this morning??? and WHY didnt Mike just throw her newscast into the air and walk away from him today? WHAT a marooon!!

er.. make that Mika

I love it when Republicans do this.

"Dobson's Sitting Out if McCain's the Nominee"

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MGY2YzViYjE2ZWZkZTFiZDdhMjE0OWUxMzYzNDVmYWM=

Jack

Hey Folks...just signed on and am gearing up for the long evening.

Just heard a great riff on the Maria Shriver line about "If Obama was a state, he'd be California."

"Yeah...California has all those mudslides. So get ready for one from the GOP if he gets nominated."

My brother, who's an ardent Obama supporter, is getting incredibly racist and xenophobic hatemail from his neighbors already. It's too bad even to reproduce here among friends. But it's scary, folks.

Now Mitt has dissed Bob Dole. He is just too good to be true. It must be true that everyone hates Mitt.

betty, WV? What part? I'm in Clarksburg.

Bowman, RFLMAO.

I see we're in snark high gear today, Bri. 35 years of doing the right things for kids doesn't mean you can see into the future and know that the bill you just signed that was sold as a way to raise achievement among schoolkids would be wielded as a club against schools and teachers rather than as a shield for students. Now what I wonder is why Ted or Hill or Barack hasn't sponsored legislation to kill NCLB now that it has proved to be a failure.

You know, all of you Clintonites remind me of Jan from the Brady Bunch, stomping your feet yelling "Obama, Obama, Obama!" Enough whining about how MSNBC does you wrong. Enough whining about how the MSM doesn't love Billary. Or how she doesn't get enough credit. Maybe she'd get some respect if they didn't do such underhanded things like claim Florida delegates.

LaLi

"getting incredibly racist and xenophobic hatemail from his neighbors already."

Despite being for Clinton, if Obama is the nominee, this is the garbage we will all have to fight back against. At this point in our history, there simply should not be any room for the haters. However busy they might be, I believe their numbers are small.

Pogo:

I moved to East Cobb (mailing address Marietta) six years ago from the northern suburbs of Chicago. Unbeknownst to my husband and I East Cobb was home to no other than Newt Gingrich! He may still live here for all we know. We're just here for the exceptional high school and are looking to get the heck out in two years when my son graduates from high school. I do love the beauty of Georgia and the weather, however. We might relocate to another area in the state, but the politics here are really getting on our nerves!

I have a very dear friend from Auburn and I took my elderly dog to Auburn's veterinary school for treatment and was very impressed with the school and the town. I realize that Auburn is a college town and not particularly representative of Alabama but I've found the time I've spent there very enjoyable.

BTW Craig, that was a cheap shot on Obama. Maybe we should call Clinton a corporate shill to be balanced?

"Ted or Hill or Barack hasn't sponsored legislation to kill NCLB now that it has proved to be a failure."

Last night, Clinton said that she would bring NCLB to an end. There has only been a slim Dem majority since 2006. This is one of the major reasons we have to send Dems to Congress this year. Given a White House that doesn't veto or apply signing statements to every bit of legislation that Dems past, maybe some of this junk will come to an end.

Jamie...I agree totally. You know, isn't it funny that part of the intra-Republican debate does not have to be: "Gee, I wonder which of McCain or Romney will provide more ammo for the Democratic HATE MACHINE."

It's just not a factor for Repubs. I guess for us Dems, it's cold comfort of being on the side of the angels.

alpha

Balanced about what?

Alright then, what was Obama's VISION when he continually voted to fund the war he opposed from the beginning? I just can't seem to see it. It's not a big issue for me, but I'm just pointing out the flaw in your argument (well, actually it is, but no one left in the race voted otherwise, and your guy and his campaign have made a huge deal of it without coherently answering for his votes on the war funding).

Posted by: alpha1906 | February 5, 2008 1:12 PM

aspposed to Obama who campaigned in Florida in Sept and promised he would seat the delegation

....apparently only if he got more of them.

Obama motto
it only counts when I win otherwise it was rigged or racist

The two major proponents on the Dem side for no child left behind were Kennedy in the Senate and George Miller in the House. It was done in the spirit of bipartisanship only in the final analysis the Democrats got sold out. Since both Kennedy and Miller are Obama supporters --I think this is a reminder of why when Obama says bipartisanship this is what I see.

Only ten senators voted against it about evenly split between Democrats and Republicans --Senators Hagel, Feingold and Wellstone among them.

GAK, I have a nephew who lives in Alpharetta with his wife and my Grand nephew. My mother's family is from Opelika (sister city to Auburn), and my paternal cousins were Auburn grads and HUGE Auburn fans. I'm originally from Birmingham, amd from the Bama wing of our family, and bleed crimson when I'm cut.

If you like the GA weather (even July-September?), youn might consider the tidewater VA area or coastal NC. Similar weather, less (barely) republican.

Obama has the same war policy as John Kerry.

My sister, on the other hand, is an ardent Hillary supporter. She sent me this link to a great article by Robin Morgan on some of the feelings of ambivalence and disappointment that this primary campaign (not to mention media coverage of it) has created for dedicated feminists:

http://www.womensmediacenter.com/ex/020108.html

Alpha1906,

Unfortunately, Craig will never be horny for Obama...I think a large part of his love for Hillary is that she would look better in a Wavy mullet than Barrack ever will...lol

With regards to NCLB, if you ask any teacher about it, they will tell you the biggest problem with is it that the promised funding never came. That's why Hillary is starting to campaign on the largest unfunded mandate in Federal history.

So from this point in, remember that Craig will be favoring the most mulleted candidate left in order to pay homage to his Florida, fried baloney/spam sandwiches and the apple martin

"Thousands of Americans are dead and perhaps hundred of thousands of Iraqis are dead in part due to her war vote"

And Obama's identical voting record since coming to the Senate?

jamie, those are his feet of clay.

Let explain it to you Jamie. I'm your uncle and I tell you not to buy a house because it will be a financial disaster. You ignore that advice and decide to buy it. Turns out, I was right. It is a financial disaster. But you're in there now, so I help you pay for it because to let you fail would be even more of a disaster. The house is the war. Living in the house is paying for the war.

Alpha...So is calling the plumber to fix a leaky sink like hiring Blackwater?

:) LaLi.. hiya

What a joke the defense of Obama is ...the rightwing argument you have to support the troops. Kucinich demonstrated ending the funding would not have hurt the troops.

If you like Obama that's great just don't pretend he is the all that and a bag of chips. He would be the black president and that would be a great statement but after that he is not special at all.

and pogo.. I havent heard the word "GAK" since my brothers and I were kids.. we were raised on "Pogo".. it was our code curse word.. lol

HyTy

Qwest had an outage and finally service is back for the Caucus at noon. I usually brag about Qwest as they were one of the few telecomunications companies not to give us up to the Feds. Really frustrating not have service.

As for New Mexico. We will have all 7 dems on the ballot although only 3 are left. I was surprised that turnout will be about 40 -- 50% of our 2004 (caucus) which was our first. Paper ballots will be used.

Bush fatigue is not drawing as much as I thought, but southern New Mexico dems never have had a good ground game. You are right, Craig, so much for the winds of change. And I understand that the writers strike may be settled shortly...just in time. Super, Duper FAT Tuesday will turn into ASH Wednesday.

Gotta go....gotta drive Miss Demsy.

Votes on Iraq: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00237

Should have nominated WI Feingold!!

LL

Hey, a plumber today
A hard case mercenary tommorrow.

That's our brave new world.

BTW I know of several small town cops that went over to Iraq for the big money so it's not as far a stretch as one would think.

Jack

i don't think clinton lead the charge into war''' there 's plenty blame to go around''' the whitehouse 'senate state department'pentagon' media 'us for not asking enough questions.

Jack...LOL. And actually...I think their domestic plumbing branch is called Brownwater.

Today is the 5th anniversary of Colin Powell's sexed up speech to the United Nations.. if you're all looking for someone to blame for that war vote????? *POINTS at the MADMEN in the Whitehouse*

"he stood up and did the right thing and resoundingly said no to this war."

When asked directly how he would have voted on the legislation that Clinton faced given what the President presented and despite the fact that he was opposed to the war. He answered that in all honesty he didn't know.

If he can be honest about it, why can't his supporters?

Long but worth reading about Obama vs JFK and the uneven pro Obama coverage vs. Clinton

http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=26893

The press seethes over Bill Clinton, shrugs at George Bush

Bush literally drives the country into a ditch while erecting new standards for secrecy and incompetence (Iraq, Abu Ghraib, Walter Reed Hospital, Hurricane Katrina, staggering national debt, etc.), and the press yawns. But Clinton makes ill-advised and insensitive unscripted comments on the campaign trail, and that's what really gets the Beltway press upset -- enrages them, really, as they scramble to find just the right adjective to describe Clinton's allegedly deceitful, abhorrent behavior.
http://mediamatters.org/columns/200802050001

For all you political junkies.

Cook reports breaks today down into district by district predictions

http://www.cookpolitical.com/races/report_pdfs/2008_tsunami_tues_feb4.pdf

lots a fun
Jack

LL- RFLMAO. That was a wonderful comment.

McCain ads swamping NY State..btw

Jack, that Cook analysis could take hours to pore over - and still have to wait for the results tonight. Interesting, and thanks for th link.

Michele Obama enters the disingenuity zone.
She tells Deborah Roberts the "controlling" remark is a foreign concept to her.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/04/michelle-obama-on-hillary_n_84957.html

Of course before, the concept of "Managing" her own hosehold wasn't foreign to her.

http://www.rightwingnews.com/mt331/2007/08/quote_of_the_day_hillary_cant.php

I guess it depends on what the definition of "controlling" and "managing" is.

ty, did you cross the border to participate in the primary, or do you just watch NY stations?

that should have been "managing" her own household , at least as applied to Hillary,

Hi Pogo, Jamie, Katie, Kathy, Harbor and all!

To the newbies Welcome!

I am imposing a news blackout for myself until much later tonight.....unless I can't take it anymore. ;0)

I wanted to say Good Luck to all of us. If either Candidate runs away with it so be it. I will be happy to campaign and fight hard for either one.

Even though I am an Obama Mamma, I am an American first and I sincerely want whats best for the country and whats best is a DEM in the White House Period.

Pogo
Its like going to the horse track and studying your racing form. You've got a lot of time to kill between races.

BTW as all there seems to be is horse race news, your drink for tonite , Mint Julips.

jack

West Virginia Republican Caucus was interesting.

All of the McCain delegates moved to Huckabee to prevent Romney from getting them.

Craig,

If you are reading your blog between bashing Barack...lol

I have a serious question for you...

When do you think the Senate races will start gaining prominence nationally? I was checking out the CQ election map and I was intrigued by some of the match ups.

When will you start offering predictions or opinions on them?

Punkinhead Russert is reporting that Oprah said on Sunday

I am asking women who are voting for Senator Clinton to change your mind. If you are a free woman you can change your mind.

Now what is that supposed to mean and why hasn't that been widely reported.

Obama snub still rankles Newsom
C.W. Nevius

Full Election Coverage
Campaign 2008
Seeing Mayor Gavin Newsom on the national stage with former president Bill Clinton on Monday night is a reminder of how political winds can change. On the eve of the biggest night of the presidential primaries, Newsom shared the spotlight during a town hall meeting staged and broadcast on cable TV and satellite radio by the Hillary Rodham Clinton campaign.

But just four years ago, current Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama is said to have declined to have his picture taken in San Francisco with Newsom, who was then at the center of a national uproar over his decision to allow same-sex marriage in San Francisco.

"I gave a fundraiser, at his (Obama's) request at the Waterfront restaurant," said former San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown. "And he said to me, he would really appreciate it if he didn't get his photo taken with my mayor. He said he would really not like to have his picture taken with Gavin."

Today, of course, Obama's people are backpedaling away from that account like crazy. His deputy campaign director, Steve Hildebrand, who lives with his partner as an openly gay man, calls it "a ridiculous story."

"Barack Obama gets his picture taken with gay people all the time," Hildebrand said. "Including me, his deputy campaign manager."

But insiders at City Hall, both current and former members of Newsom's staff, recall the incident well. And you can bet that Newsom hasn't forgotten it either.

"He was pissed," said one former staffer.

When the pollsters first missed the mark in Iowa, the social media research company I work for decided to see if the blogosphere was as wrong as the traditional media. Using a more primitive version of our current methodology, we were pleasantly surprised to see that a measurement of blog sentiment and activity would have correctly (if narrowly) predicted an Obama win. Our theory as to why this is: people so engaged in the political process that they publicly blog about their favorite candidates could fairly represent those who are engaged enough to vote in the primaries and caucuses at all. We followed 5 states for Super Tuesday and made overall and specific predictions, which can be found here, if you’re interested:

http://blog.collectiveintellect.com/2008/02/05/super-tuesday-blogosphere-predicts-mccain-obama-as-winners/

change to spare - newsom, who cares what he thinks man has no integrity or credibility, none!

dont know if anyone else posted this link billiary request for debates once a week. sounds like she is desperate. why would a front runner want to debate weekly? i guess if crying and coughing doesnt work maybe debates will....

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/Penn_More_debates.html

Hillary supporters from non-Super Tuesday states may participate by contributing on hillaryclinton.com

That's what I'm going to do now..

"The Illinois Democrat [Obama] only been in Washington for three years, but he got there as a dutiful conformist rising through the ranks of Chicago’s political system."

He played the game and rode the magic carpet fuelled by his 2004 Keynote speech.

Experience ? Well, I guess JFK showed us a person can be elected with little experience.

We'll see how this plays out, because if Obama is the candidate , McCain will have his dogs out touting "experience". No matter that all McCain's experience has turned him into a delusional maniac, a fly-off-the-handle madman with access to The Bomb...and with likewise-crazy LIEberman having screamed how the US should have bombed Iran by now...and you cannot see McCain without LIEberman in the background...well...yes, it truly could be Doctor Strangelove at the helm. With a touch of Doctor Evil in the mix.

I think Hillary believes that debates show her strengths.
I don't buy the point that she is desperate.
Remember, throughout this entire process, no matter what her polling showed, she was willing to participate in an unprecedented number of debates with her opponents!!!

"why would a front runner want to debate weekly?"

Because she is a lot better at it than Obama is and everytime they are on a stage together, he suffers by comparison>

well, I'm off to make pancakes for the Fat Tuesday supper.. see ya as the polls close.. no matter what, this is one for the ages, my friends..

JFK vs Obama experience

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2008/0801w.widmer.html

betty, ahhhh, a truly beautiful part of the state - I could spend hours sitting on the bridge gazing into the gorge.

Jack, great recommendation - I'll be looking for my bourbon and julep glasses. Lessee, rum, citrus juices, bourbon, mint. This could get interesting.

And of course, Sheila - howdy. As always, your words are music to my ears.

OD, that "Hillary is desperate" is just campaign claptrap. They all do it; nobody really believes it. Desperate would be Hillary or Obama accepting a spot on Hannity & Colmes.

why would anyone want to debate?

To inform the public. Repeatedly the public has said in polls more discussion of the issues please.

\Why wouldn't you want to debate?
because you have nothing to say

I thought Obama was for political change not the same old cliches.

Newsom

Stood up for the civil rights of gays when no one else did. True not the greatest mayor ever. But on this issue he retains great credibility and the source of the comment is Willie Brown...I suppose you think he doesn't count either

"why would a front runner want to debate weekly?"

It is Hillary versus Obama + MSM. The "live" debate is not edited. This is a way to get past the media "gatekeepers".

Influence of the Super delegates(SD):

Abrams (CNN) and Gov. Roehm (Colo) were just opining on the high potential of the SD to be the deciding factor in the outcome of the nomination.

Obviously, we've all been aware of this for years. It's just been a long while since we've had a close finish.
Irrespective of the outcome, what a shame it would be for that to happen in such a historic race.

Last night while Obama was preaching to the choir while saying next to nothing except hope and change, Clinton was taking questions from all over the nation and answering them with specific details, and she did it without notes.

so, Warren are you dumb or just like to be an asshole. That is at least 3 times you have spammed this website. you have been asked not to cut and paste but seem to continue to cut and paste. you are a rude person.

yo soy Horsedooty!

hd, what do you really think? LOLOLOL

I love you, man.

hi kathy missed talking to u ;) in regards to willie brown he falls into the category of a leader lacking integrity, credibility and morals. him and newsom definetly have that in common!

hilliary debate request is a sign of desperation she cannot compete financially with obama and she is looking for free press. if hilliary wins every state tonight i bet u she will change that request. if im obama i will give her one debate in washington dc and thats it. there is nothing more to talk about that hasnt already been talked about. its time to cast our ballots!

hd, i think it was ColoradoBob who said that a troll is a troll, no matter what party they support. Maybe Craig could remove Warren's offending posts henceforth or put some limit on the number of characters that can be put in a post or something like that to avoid stuff like that.

Funny how posting my thoughts is considered rude - but you feel free to call me "dumb" and an "asshole."

I am not a regular on this site and was therefore unaware. And it is ironic to have a Clintonite speak to me about following the "rules" when it is in my interest no to do so.

I look forward to more insightful comments.

warren
since you don't read anyone's else's post you must have missed the request from your host that you a) credit the author of the post and that you post links not entire articles. Someone up the thread posted the link to the kos diary from which your post comes.

I think John R. must be a rabid homophobe if he attacks Newsom like that. The more I read, the happier I am that I am not in the USA where the media is so easily manipulated by the likes of Oprah-Dali-Lama-wannabe and Ted-I-drove-into-the-channel-and-all-I-could-think-about-was-saving-my-ass-and-calling-my-lawyer.

I've made up my mind that I will NOT.. never ever, vote for Barack Obama. Even if he is Hillary's Vice-Presidential running mate, I will be voting for her... I don't give a squat about phony him.

Your right pogo. It would work wonders for all of you people to not be forced to see what those outside Hillaryland think.

Partisanship does not only inhibit the ability to debate with people from other camps - it also diminishes the debate that goes on inside your own camp.

euro, lol guess what im hearing... the first law prez obama will sign is a ban on all europeans who shouldnt be poking their nose in american politics, from watching shows and news about america! usa, usa, usa, usa ba-by!

JR, drop the Obama campaign talking points. Desperation? I call BS. Unable to compete financially with Obama? I call BS.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2008-presidential-candidates/finance/comparison/

There is nothing more to talk about? How about having a Tom Brokaw moderate a debate instead of the amateurs that have let all the candidates get by with avoiding the questions? How about having Obama actually explain how his plans differ from Hillary's instead of making conclusory statements that they do? I do agree with one thing - time to go cast your vote.

Thanks Cracker - I will limit my thoughts to short soundbytes so that I can be just like everyone else her. God forbid we start looking at the substance behind these snarky comments.

Warren, spoke like a truly self-interested New Yorker. You break the rules too much and you might get booted, so maybe you should consider it to BE in your interest to follow the rules. Since you are being a mouthpiece for Obaaaahma, don't you think it's a bad message to say "it is ironic to speak to me about following the rules when it is not in my interest to do so". Perhaps this is official policy of the Obama campaign?

if im obama i will give her one debate in washington dc and thats it. there is nothing more to talk about that hasnt already been talked about. its time to cast our ballots!

Posted by: John R, | February 5, 2008 3:38 PM

nothing more to talk about??? I'll bet people in Ohio don't feel that way.

John R. sorry to bother your skanky little attitude but I am American. Probably more so than you. Nice try loser... go beat up on someone who'll take your crap.

Oh and one more thing Mr. John R... I know you were being rude but also tongue-in-cheek, but the attitude you joked about has been the attitude of Bush and Co the last 8 years. And your candidate is the candidate of change?

euro, hehehehe i detect i hurt ur feelings im soooo sorry here's some tissue to wipe ur weeping eyes, obama 08

I'm going to attribute all the nastiness to passion about our respective candidates.

Let's just go out and vote for our choice and stop bashing one another.

Maybe we need to state the obvious ...

If we are on this board discussing politics we all have a reasonable amount of intelligence (more or less).

I think we can debate without calling one another stupid.

Thanks Cracker - I will limit my thoughts to short soundbytes so that I can be just like everyone else her. God forbid we start looking at the substance behind these snarky comments

as long as they are you original thoughts no one cares
but cut and paste from KOS --not so much and why would you be so disrespectful to the request of the blog owner?

How very Obama to think the rules do not apply to you.

And I hate to say this ... but don't discount that there are right-wing trolls out there who get their jollies coming on sites such as these to stir up a bit of trouble.

I'm not saying ... I'm just saying. LOL

Good point EuroTom - then perhaps you can again take the American people's eyes off the ball again so they do not focus on the holes in your candidate's case.

Rest assured - I do not speak for the campaign - I speak for myself and many other free-thinking Americans.

euro, no this is not a bush like attitude, but hilliary's attitude is more close to bush, she think it is some God given right to the prez position and anyone in her way will be steam rolled.

Hey Cracker - I am the original blog owner.

EuroTom - you also failed to pick up the point of my post. It is Hillary that is trying to change the rules midstream because it supports her political aims. Therefore, I am acting consistent with the views held by your esteemed candidate.

Also - wouldn't good ol Plunkitt agree with such tactics?

warren, cutting and pasting lengthy articles is my beef - It's trolling, and it's not productive - the content of the comment is nothing I have a problem with. You have a thought, feel free to express it - in fact, if you look at this blog, we as a whole, and I in particular, welcome alternative points of view. I love to argue - hell, it's my business. But I don't love to read lengthy stuff that's passed off as a comment and isn't attributed to the source. You want to quote someone, quote them, if
it's a lengthy quote, link it - stop trying to tie up this blog with crap I suspect you're sprinkling across numerous blogs. As for Hillaryland, if I don't get it here, HuffPo (Obamaland, but I go there frequently), on MSNBC (again, Obamaland) or in the MSM I don't get it. I don't go to campaign websites unless it's from a link here, so speak of something you know.

The only one that took their eye off the ball was Bush & Company when they left Afghanistan and invaded Iraq.

And we would be wise to not take our eye off the ball by damaging the Democrat party so much we can't come together in the GE to get rid of the Republicans.

I hope people will think better of taking their marbles home if their candidate doesn't get the nod. I know it is human nature to feel that way and perhaps after tonight my candidate will not be the nominee, but I recognize what my mission is come November.

You know I have only been on this website for a couple of weeks----but let me tell you something I have noticed,

The people who have been the most hateful with their words, meanest in their spirit, and divisive with their attitudes have been Obama supporters.

This is coming from someone who only made up their mind yesterday and voted today.

calm down guys-----we need to think of the big picture.

Hey Cracker - I am the original blog owner.

Posted by: warren | February 5, 2008 4:05 PM

then as the host requested...post the link

OMG! I meant to say "DEMOCRATIC" party.

Geez, I sound like a right wing troll! Horrors.

kathy, imo the candidates positions are well known and they are not going to change. they may say things in a different way but the essence of their positions are the same. why waste time debating to listen to what we have already heard. the people in ohio, texas i am sure have watched the previous 2k debates we have watched in 07/08 :) more debates imo will only help obama, but having said that he still has more to lose strategically by debating often.

Its funny. I was a the gym today thinking about how I was going to extend the olive branch to everyone on the board. Understanding that it is passion for our candidate rather than hate that drives us.

But you guys keep reminding me about blind partisanship and a willingness to make callous and demeaning remarks about anyone who disagrees with you.

This is why I support Obama - you guys make the case for me!

Free thinking? HAH! Nice try... you just spamming your silly little diatribes to a group of people who don't give a shit.

John R.... I am suspecting you are a troll. You're going around to various boards attacking Craig Crawford for one because he doesn't agree with you. How old are you anyway?

This whole thing is a total fucking waste of time people. No one on this board is going to change their mind on their candidate because of one person's opinion or another. All it succeeds to do is piss people off and create even more divisions... And my blood pressure is WAAAAY up at the moment.

Warren, with all due respect and objectively, one could argue that your position and demeanor might drive people over to Hillary's camp as well.

We don't do our candidates any favors when we bash the other side. (Unless we are talking about our Republican opposition.)

Maybe the conversation about who the most divisive candidate is needs to be revisited?

Tom: It isn't worth your time or your blood pressure.

I've seen this kinda stuff on a million different boards about a million different subjects.

People get quite hateful when they can sit in front of their computer and be annoymous. It's one very negative aspect of the internet.

I used to get really pissed all the time. It took the fun out of forums.

GAKaren: I have been careful to not post attacks that have not already been made by the Republicans.

I take your point that being over-agressive can do a disservice to either the candidate or the party I want to win.

But I also think there are some legitimate concerns about Hillary's chances in the general - and all I hear are attacks against me - rather than responses to the points I raise.

EuroTom - I am in my thirties. I have not attacked Crawford - but I came to this sight because I know he is an ardent Clinton supporter.

I don't want to simply preach to the choir and have my ego stroked by people that agree with me.

I apologise for letting my blood pressure get the better of me. I KNOW better than to engage these sorts of people in a chat room. It's like an online Jerry Springer episode and that's just not cool.

I don't need to say more because people who have read, know what I think. It's interesting, when I first came here I said I would support the democratic nominee no matter who wins. I no longer feel that way, not even a bit. I'll do a protest vote or cast a ballot for McCain, whatever. I am no longer even open to the possibility of supporting Barack Obama.

Cheers,

ET

Attacks on Hillary are going to be reruns. That isn't the case with Obama. We don't completely know who we are getting with him, because nobody has put it too him yet. It took two weeks for Bill to get under his skin with what I think was weak attacks. What do you think will happen when the repugs get into full gear for months and months.

got to go give a ride to a voter----be back later

Warren...I was at my gym today thinking about how I was going to stop being so nice and start beating the cyber-crap out of anyone that disagrees with me, even if it's only a miniscule disagreement that we'll all forget about by...oh...around about November.

Who's first?

EuroTom...don't give up on humanity just yet. Lots of stuff that goes on on this blog is house-of-mirrors distortion of reality because everyone is so passionate. If you take a step back, I think you'll be able to come around to whatever Democrat is nominated...even if it's Obama.

Warren: People are very passionate about their support of a particular candidate. Let's face it, there are people that have serious concerns about Obama's chances in the general as well. That is why we have an election!

As you know, it is human nature to attack messengers rather than messages themselves. Maybe that comes out of our sports traditions in this country ... win at all cost. Doesn't leave a lot of room for rational discussion.

Let's put it this way, if I had a dollar for every time I was attacked personally for an opinion I've voiced on an internet forum ... I'd be a very rich lady! LOL

I just wish we would all stop doing it. I know that isn't going to happen.

EuroTom - I am in my thirties. I have not attacked Crawford - but I came to this sight because I know he is an ardent Clinton supporter
ROFLAMO

Crawford is not a Clinton supporter. Just because he pointed out the inquities in the media coverage and the lies makes him a media critic not a Clinton supporter

warren
read before you post and people might be more inclined to engage with you. But you just come here to get extra googe cites for your Obama rants

Hey ET,

We're a Blue State, so the Electoral College will trump everything.

Hey GAKaren...you talkin' to ME?! You wanna piece of ME!!

Warren, you were not the "troll" I was referring to.

What is everyone talking about? I thought after seeing Edwards on the campaign trail - everyone likes an angry white guy.

euro. i am not a troll, well i dont think i am lol... by the way is a troll like a monster that live in the dungeon of a castle hehehe

LL: Oooh, do I get a dollar now?

Cracker - like I said - I want to engage with people that disagree with me.

I do not think Obama supporters or Clinton supporters should in engage is some type of love fest and think we have the general election in the bag.

What's wrong with kicking the tires? You guys have certainly kicked me a few times.

John: I think trolls usually live under bridges ... they impede progress.

ET,
"It's interesting, when I first came here I said I would support the democratic nominee no matter who wins. I no longer feel that way, not even a bit. I'll do a protest vote or cast a ballot for McCain, whatever. I am no longer even open to the possibility of supporting Barack Obama."

Really? You'd let snarky attacks on a blog influence your thinking about a candidate? Do you think Obama supporters should not vote for Hillary, even though they were inclined to do so if she got the nod, because of the snarky attacks of Hillary supporters?

Warren the short time I've been here the people have been mostly polite. What the good folks here are trying to do in these comments is carry on a give and take conversation.
They are political junkies and for the most part multipartisan.
There are resident trolls(was going to mention names but decided to be polite) and they are dearly loved. They tend to clean up after themselves and for the most part behave and amuse.

Long pontificating diatribes aren't liked here they take up a lot of bandwith and disrupt the conversation. If you insist on proving your intellegence it would probably be best to give a short summary and then post a link to your blog. That way folks that like that kind of stuff will read your diatribe and leave one of their own in reply. It will improve the traffic flow to your site making you more important in the blogosphere.

Jack

Warren,
"You guys have certainly kicked me a few times."

I told you to wear a cup...

GAK...you bet. You know, I think you're onto something. We oughta have the equivalent of a cussing jar on this blog that lets you put a dollar in if you want to engage in ad hominem attacks. And the proceeds will go to....

...whichever Democrat is nominated!!!

Whiskey...did anyone ever tell you how SMOKIN' HOT you are when you get all polite like that?

I think Hillary supporters are getting quite snarky these days. It's hard enough to battle the supporters of other candidates without having to deal with all the crap the supposedly "objective" press dishes out.

Clinton bashing is so 1990's.

And FWIW, Democrats parroting Republican talking points about Democratic candidates (no matter which) is NEVER a good thing.

I certainly apologize to anyone I offended.

Here is what drives me:

Clinton and her supporters often elude tough questions on the issue that she is divisive and polarizing. The charge is thrown back in my face (i.e., so is Obama) or blamed on the Republicans or the media or the other campaigns.

For me and my political view - this is a real issue. And let me be clear - Hillary won me over a long time ago when she came to speak at my law school. Since then, I have admired and respected her.

But - there is a significant part of America that will not be so open minded - so I think this is a real issue that has to be confronted - not simply cast to the side as meaningless or unfair.

Okay...in case it hasn't been posted here yet today, here's a funny sendup of the celebrity-filled Obama video that ran on Super Sunday. Just click link. It's worth the laugh, no matter who you support:

http://gawker.com/5002847/tyra-banks-helps-deflate-obama-video

I got two calls from Bill Clinton last night. One at 8pm and one at 8:05pm. I figured he must've forgot to tell me something in the 8pm call. I kept asking if Richardson served chicharrones at their superbowl party, but all he could talk about was his wife and Chlesa. Got a call from Hillary today. I asked her if she wanted to know what her hubby said last night about her, but she just kept saying it was going to be a close election.

LL: Fantastic idea! Here's to taking out the trash in November. As usual it will be up to a Democrat to clean up another Republican mess.

"You guys have certainly kicked me a few times."

Warren,

All anyone is asking you to do is please keep your posts to a reasonable length and the link to any post that has appeared elsewhere rather than a long copy and paste screed. You seem to believe that the courtesies we all follow so that we can have our usual blood thirsty brawl don't apply to you.

Until you do extend those courtesies, you cannot expect to be treated decently by anyone.

We did have a swear jar here. Then we didn't have to use it so much after a little problem was cleared up.

dnd,

I can only speak for myself. I am not advocating it for anyone else. If you asking do I have a logical reason to feel this way... not really. When people beat up on a candidate as much as they have on Hillary (and I would put her current competitor in this group) I have no interest in even wasting my time or a postage stamp. Actually I have already done that, to Washington State for a primary that doesn't even count. Talk about "disenfranchised"... I was an ardent believer in Obama's 2004 message at the Democratic Convention. I was torn between him and Hillary until he began attacking her when his numbers were in the toilet. At that moment, he became just another politician in my book. And Hillary had to attack back. Obama has been better at exploiting the art of attack... for this i give him credit. But this is not a candidate of change. It's a candidate of saying one thing and doing another.

And this is supposed to inspire a nation? See this just hit me as I was reading these posts. I would rather vote for someone whom I already know isn't going to lie about this so-called "new politics". If I say... cast a vote for McCain, it wouldn't be because his positions, but that he is as rotten as the rest of them and even admits it. :)

I am tired.

Now I know why they don't allow electioneering or guns within 300 feet of polling places after reading today's posts!

Have to agree with truebeliever. I don't expect Obama supporters to respond to direct questions either, like Obama's real history on the Iraq war. Let's not talk about the sanctions/military strike approach that Bill used resulting in Desert Fox that crushed Saddam's army. Let's not contemplate a Saddam with WMD. Obama made a big point about striking Pakistan when DoD policy has always been to strike if Intel was fairly certain. Bush just nailed the third top AQ last week in a Predator strike. Lebanon, Iran, Syria, Hamas all wait for the signal the US sends and Obama's signal is "my good judgement" when the record and papers, the forgotten speeches and politically motivated stump declarations give a distrubing picture of exactly where Obama would lead us. Nothing of the direct clarity of a Reagan or JFK

Kudos Giants. Like I said last week, toughness and strong defense wins at the end of the day. Heart was obvious, but the head stopped the screen and slants, picked up the biltz, double covered the right receivers and beat Belichick at his own game. Don't think world politics is anything less than a global Super Bowl every week. What often looks purty, is not what wins at the end of the day. The Democratic Party I once knew would never accept a Saddam chasing WMD or an Iran with nukes. It will take more than nice speeches (constantly changing) to send a signal to Putin, Ahmadinejad, Chavez, Assad and AQ. Much of Obama's base do not come close to the view that every modern Presdient has endorsed in the bipartisan principles of our National Security Strategy. This base will be baggage for Obama if he is nominated. His vote against sanctions (he didn't even vote), he present judgment on Iraq (following Hillary while talking up the anti-war wing), his policy position on Pakistan, his silence on Africa and South America do not even raise his image to what the Europeans thought of Kerry when they called him the "Enlightened Warrior". Given Obama has said we are at war, he has no battle plan that sounds like a general. Unless that general was Lee?

Jaime:

Consider it done.

I am new to the blogosphere.

A couple of things...

If you feel the need to make a long post, please throw some line spaces in there to make it easier to read...

Next,

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23002583/

This is a link talking about the early exit polling in Connecticut. It's not a surprise that the Black/Hispanic vote is falling along the assumed Obama/ Clinton lines. What struck me as curious is that many of the people who supported Lamont in 2006 seem to be going to Obama. Have we seen discernible moveon.org type support for Obama in other states?

Lardass, as always, you have me in stitches.

KC, how many Obamaites have we heard accuse Craig of being in the bag for Clinton? And how many times have we seen Craig criticize her, her campaign and her husband's efforts on her behalf?

ET, go have a beer and relax - that's one thing you can get in Belgium that is so much better than it is by the time it gets to us.

Off now - nite all.

Maxtrue,

That pablum you just spewed about the Giants ranks right up there with W's attempt to make his stewardship of the Iraq war or the federal budget seem Mensa like.

Put down the hash pipe and return to reality based living...

Bear

Lamont endorsed Obama.

Tom: I think we are so devoid of leadership and been kicked around by that fool in the WH and his brain dead supporters for so long (and that includes the f'ing press) that we are crying out for something new. Something different. I think this is the crux of the Obama appeal.

Unfortunately, I've become such a cynic since the 2000 election that I see the warts on ALL the candidates.

They're not perfect ... they're human. But I do share your concern about someone saying one thing and doing quite the opposite. That is the essence of George W. Bush.

I'm also concerned that Obama will be lulled into a false sense of security since he is enjoying his honeymoon with the press. Can he handle the right wing slime machine? That is the big question I've been wrestling with.

As for Hillary ... it's no fault of her own but she has been so bloodied by the right wing I worry about her viability. I'm told that Republicans here in GA are requesting Dem ballots so they can vote against her. They hate her that much.

I will vote my conscience and then I will wait for tonight's results.

Pogo,

I just like teasing Craig about like the candidate with the best mullet...in this case Hillary Rodham Clinton...lol

What we need to hear more of is how Hillary is still the worst mother in the world because she ended up with an intelligent an normal daughter instead booze hounds who were constantly photographed liking sidewalks after a night on the town...

Tom...You were disenfranchised by the Dem party. They're the ones who decided that your vote in the WA primary would not count. Scroll back and read the article I linked at 10:56 this morning.

Eley Shapiro, a retired secretary, said, “I voted for Obama because we need change badly. But there’s going to be a lot of friction. I voted for him, but I don’t think he’ll make it. You know that old expression, ‘The South shall rise again’? I don’t think the Southern vote will help him any. They’re very powerful…. There’s still so much racism in the country.”

She said Obama is “intelligent and he’s decent and so far, he’s not a crook. So far. I like his stature, I like his appearance. I’m very much on that ‘cleanliness is next to godliness.'”

Shapiro considered voting for Clinton.

“I like her. I think she’s sharp. I don’t know why the country hates her.”

She said she voted for Lieberman in the Lieberman versus Lamont primary in 2006 “because he was Jewish and I am Jewish, so I voted for him. And I think that’s why the black people will vote for Obama.”

NEW THREAD

People don't attack Hillary's character (i.e., is she a good mother, will she help an old lady across a street). They attack her character in terms of politics. In other words, the perception that she is willing to mow down her political opponents. This charge at least is consistent with what I hear on this board from her supporters - "she is a fighter" or "she will bring down the Republicans." I think part of the change people are seeking is not just moving on from Bush - but moving past the partisan battles that have resulted the the Immigration Bill being scrapped, the endless investigations and the failure to come to any sort of consensus on Iraq.

Warren: When the Republicans say, "Jump!" Nancy and Harry say, "How high?"

Aren't you concerned that in his zest to reach across party lines Obama will only enable the "we can't upset the Republicans" Dems in congress? If he doesn't take a strong stance with the Repubs they will walk all over him and continue to walk all over Congressional Dems.

Bi-partsianship sounds wonderful in theory. However, in recent history it means that congressional Democrats roll over and play dead for the Repubs. I don't want to see a Dem President continue that trend.

My day of trying to vote in New Mexico.

It's probably partly my fault, but today was not at all satisfying. I registered over a month ago at the county clerk's office, was told I'd get a card in the mail. I also chatted with the clerk who said that while the caucus was run by the Dem Party, he knew that I'd go to a certain place to vote rather than the usual primary place. Today when I called the C.C.' office, they told me the polling places had been in the local paper, but I read it online, and did not see any ad's which probably aren't printed.
.
I've been waiting for the card in the mail, but it never came. Turns out the "system was down" according to office, and they're being mailed out NEXT WEEK. A friend in nearby county also never got her card. SO I didn't have the # of my precinct to double check online; I just decided to go where the clerk's office said. Also the list online brought me to the same conclusion since that polling place is closest.

I went to the school--crowded, but inside very little organization. Guess they didn't expect a crowd. I had to have a shouting match with one worker because he couldn't hear me (he was old and probably partly deaf). Sent to another table where seated worker was shooting the breeze with 2 women. No one helpful. Finally got her attention, and of course she couldn't find my name on the list. I started to leave but she said LOTS of people weren't on the list and to get a provisional ballot. That lady was helpful, but after only 1 hour of voting she already had 2 pages of provisional ballot names!

I don't exactly feel disenfranchised, but Jeez Loueez, why do we have these stories every year?

"I apologise for letting my blood pressure get the better of me."

ROFL, EuroTom -- I have a friend in Oklahoma whose home health nurse ordered her to stop watching Orrin Hatch on television because it was causing her blood pressure to skyrocket.

Its funny. I was a the gym today thinking about how I was going to extend the olive branch to everyone on the board. Understanding that it is passion for our candidate rather than hate that drives us.

But you guys keep reminding me about blind partisanship and a willingness to make callous and demeaning remarks about anyone who disagrees with you.

This is why I support Obama - you guys make the case for me!

Posted by: warren | February 5, 2008 4:11 PM

Warren, I believe most of us who support Obama are staying thin on this Blog because of all the passion and high spirits from the Clinton people.

Remember this one thing. And please all you Newbies remember too.

Membership here is free. Just because Clinton and Obama are in campaign doesn't mean that you can burn the bridges here.

The Campaign is going to end...but are you going to be bitter or are you going to be able to shake hands.

There are A LOT of misunderstanding on this blog right now. There are A LOT of CLinton people and some trolls who don't believe they are making bad remarks. But they are.

There are A LOT of Obama who are coming on here just to hit back and defend. There are A LOT of Trolls using Obama to make you guys mad.

AND we are all falling for it.

This is why you don't see the Obama regulars on here right now and most of the day.

WE are trying to preserve our place here on the blog.

So Warren, WE WELCOME you. Please understand that everything you have said, has bee said and we would love to have a conversation with you.

Be nice about Senator Clinton and rise above the ones that are wanting a fight in the first place. Usually they are just wanting to spare and not have and understanding.

You will see me in the late hours and in the early morning hours. Now I won't tell you lies about Obama.

Sorry!

""You will see me in the late hours and in the early morning hours. Now I won't tell you lies about Obama."""

I made mistake here in this statement.

What I meant to say was, "I won't tell you lies about OBama and I won't slam Senator Clinton either."

i hope people wake up and vote their minds and look at the issues.....candidates records....experience.....and their ability to run a government......the media gave us george bush.....the media gave us the war ......and now they are trying to shove an inexperienced...great speaker that says nothing and is probably a bigger con artist than BUSH......the media thinks we are all IDIOTS... dont prove them right

GAKaren:

I think the potential of an Obama presidency is not that congress will magically roll over for no good reason - but rather that he will garner support from all aisles. In other words, Obama will articulate what needs to change - and the American people will make it happen. Congress will have no choice but to fall in line.

Also - it is not about rolling over. It is making progress on points most Americans agree on:

-We should get out of Iraq and engage in a more intelligent and sophisticated foreign policy - that creates allies rather than enemies.

-That healthcare should be reformed and it should be more affordable and accessible

-That we can do more to help Americans that are struggling in this economy through no fault of their own.