Craig, Agree with you fair assessment of retail politics.
however, as a member of the "YES WE CAN" supporters. Obama's campaign slogan means much more than getting a bunch of Borg to lock step in a 1984 vision towards our candidate.....the same with Clinton's supporters I suspect.
Have to admit I will be glad when we get past March 4 so that one way or they other, the political folks have to come up with a new spiel. The current ones are getting mighty boring.
Matt Taibbi on Macenstein: (excerpt from my link above)
Back in 1999, McCain concluded a speech at Phillips Exeter in New Hampshire by shouting, "Never again do we send our men and women to fight and die in foreign conflicts unless our goal is victory!" Which is interesting, because that is exactly — almost word for motherfucking word — how McCain ended his latest speeches on the campaign trail in Maryland and Virginia. In other words, John McCain knew his answer to the Iraq War mess before it even happened. For good measure, he insisted that "only military men like General Petraeus" have the right to say when soldiers will come home from Iraq — not, he added with a sneer, "some civilian running for president." Nor, presumably, America's civilian population, which is being asked to send its sons and daughters to kill and die in a faraway country.
Craig..... great video.....
I've taken more than a few classes on retail sales..... and I employ the tactics that you mentioned used by both Clinton and Obama when I do a crafts fair.....
hey..... they work....
as for March 4th..... I have the same plan I mentioned the other day for March 5th...... hot tubbin'......
my goal this year is to come back from this ski vacation looking like a prune.....
Haven't read last night's thread yet, but in case anyone missed this...like the entire world...Nader picked a Veep...not that it matters.
"The Texas-born Gonzalez ran for mayor of San Francisco as a Green Party candidate in 2003 but lost to Democrat Gavin Newsom after a surprisingly close runoff election. Gonzalez has been largely inactive in city politics since then, though he has recently gone after both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, a man he says lacks the ability to bring about real change."
I do hope that Ms Clinton gets to stay in this for a little longer so we have more time to shop around. It would be horrible if we lose this opportunity and then have buyer's remorse.
We certainly need more time to get to know Mr. Obama. I think he is still a little too unknown.
I think the bi-partisanship of the people here is damaging this blog. You know what I mean! Last night , Dog was the first to post on the thread and she posted "Go Obama!" What happened to the days when people just said "Woo!"? I'm just waiting for the day when McCain supporters come here and get called "McCainiacs!" I remember the slogan that said "I gave up hope and it worked just fine." About Obama and his pledge to meet with certain world leaders without any conditions. Bush obviously feels that would be terribly wrong to do. My guess is that Obama would put his trust in these other world leaders , but Bush doesn't trust some of these world leaders. If we don't trust these other world leaders , then how are they ever gonna become trustworthy? Besides , how may people here actually trust our country's leader? I guess my hangup is that Obama speaks in such a way that he makes everything sound like it would be easy to do. End the war quickly , talk to Raul Castro etc....I just can't see things being as easy as he's making them sound. In closing , I enjoyed the video Craig. How much do you want for the swamp land?
Another group of brain cells seem to have gone on vacation. What is the name of that folk group Craig likes so much. I keep tapping on that synapse and it burps up the play title "Speed the Plow" and I know that's wrong. Help.
On MoJo, I see that they were quoting a black superdelegate as saying that black superdelegates are being target with threats, intimidation and charges of being Uncle Toms if they don't commit to casting their vote for Obama. I guess this had to happen. I'm so glad Obama is not viewed as the black candidate and race is not a factor. To be fair, I'm not saying Obama is behind the pressure, although I do recall at least some of the Ombama supporters here claiming Hillary's campaign was behind every move they felt was offensive to Obama that her supporters made in the runup to the primaries, so applying their logic, I guess the Obama campaign must be behind this.
Damn, Mike Smith - Dave Clark 5 lead sinder is dead.
And for the morning's economic news - the Dow is down more than 100 and bernanke thinks everything is AOK. I feel so much better knowing that all those gloomy economic reports don't mean the economy is in bad shape.
Alpha, In your long piece yesterday evening (10:23) in which said us white folk are completely out of touch with the black community and that we just don't get the movement, how about doing this.
_Not_ from what Sen Obama is saying, but from how black people are processing the total message, what _exactly_ does the under-40 cohort believe Obama is going to do when elected? Please be specific.
Is the treatment of the black community going to be different from that of the white community? If so, in what ways?
What happens in integrated communities? If fundamental changes are to be made, does it mean that efforts at integration were wasted effort?
I did the "Leap Day" bit on the blog today with references to both the ancient Roman tradition and a tip of the hat to Al Capp even though he put Sadie Hawkins day in November. At least that produced two fun songs from You Tube
Mr.Crawford you are right once again. that were more people your business willing to tell it straight as you do, voters of this country It would be able to make decisions based on what is real.
Well, I have to run do some errands, and have much to do today - may check in briefly later this a.m., but who knows. Renee, good luck on that shrivelling if I don't get a chance to chat before you hit the H2O.
"When last we convened on this story, the entire traditional media, cable outfits like CNN, and Obama blogs across the spectrum, were all in the tank for Obama. They had collectively pronounced untrue the story CTV had reported about Mr. Obama's campaign aide(s) (senior staff, worker bees or whatever title you want to include so as to incorporate all possible people that could have participated in this story) tipping the Canadian government that Obama's campaign rhetoric on NAFTA was all hot air. Not to worry, Obama's aide(s) said, whatever Obama is saying in Ohio about revisiting NAFTA, it won't apply in his presidency.
Obama's campaign issued a statement declaring "inaccuracies," while Obama himself said during a plane press gaggle (likely the same one referenced below) that the Canadian government had denied it happened. He really meant embassy spokesperson, but let's not quibble on a smoke screen. Meanwhile, the embassy statement declared there was no story. None. Translation: go away you silly media, there's nothing here. Thus, like good little lambs, the media and all those studious Obama bloggers went away. They're so obedient.
NAFTA story, developing... into something that could be a problem for Mr. Obama. Once again, it's about a lot more than NAFTA. It's the measure of the man's character that comes into question. Saying one thing in public to the American people in order to to get vote, then promising a neighboring government something else. It's anything but a new kind of politics."
I'm having a ball building my Pandora stations. Got three going now: The Piano Bar for evenings here with wine and conversation once the &(&%%%^)** election is through and one for folk, country, and bluegrass. Once those are done, I'll tackle Rock and Classical stations ... Eclectic R Us.
And speaking of "fun" , they have proposed making next Friday "Hawaiian shirt / Tie Dye shirt" day at work. It's supposed to be something to chase away the winter blues. So I guess people will either be walking around work looking like "party animals" or "Deadheads". By the way , the weather sucks here this morning. Snowing hard here for the past few hours.
"Sources at the highest levels of the Canadian government — who first told CTV that a call was made from the Obama camp — have reconfirmed their position. "
Sheila wrote: "Obama's campaign slogan means much more than getting a bunch of Borg to lock step in a 1984 vision towards our candidate.....the same with Clinton's supporters I suspect."
Well good thing for Clinton supporters we've got more than a campaign slogan to plop our money down on. And those discriminating buyers on the Clinton side like to look under the hood and kick the tires-we're not easily impressed by a fancy paint job.
Alpha -- Your comments from last night were well-thought and no doubt right, for the most part. But I don't think you can or should be sneering at people like Maxine Waters (to name one) as being out of touch. She is a great voice for education as well as for the black community AND woman.
I do agree that the so-called welfare reform was a very bad piece of legislation. At the time, I emailed every Tennessee rep in the house and senate and asked: "What about child care?"
And yes, I also agree that the Democrats have taken the black vote for granted. Just like Obama and Co. is now taking the baby boomer female vote for granted.
I repeat the question Flatus asked....what do you specifically see that Obama will do for your generation? And if he doesn't do much, how will that affect the young black voter? I know, for example, that my candidate will make women's issues a priority. She will protect women's right to choose, for one thing. Whereas Barack is on record as saying that women have the right to have "some control over their bodies." The word "some" jumped out and smacked me in the face. And I will say that I've started to see younger women show up on feminist blogs saying, "Until this campaign I didn't understand that this is still a VERY sexist society."
However, the basic problem with what you said, and I see this in the women's movement, too. Your generation ignores how and why you caught some breaks.
You wrote: "What you're seeing is a classic case of a generation outlasting their stay. Stale ideas."
Wow. Would you say that to Maxine Waters' or John Lewis' faces? I gotta believe that if she were around, Barbara Jordan would take you to the woodshed for that one.
My first though on the first read through on Alpha's post made me think "serpent's tooth". An elderly man who had been bullied, bruised, and bloodied so that they could have that integrated life was being shoved out of the way as being unnecessary and told to betray the friendship of a lifetime unless he didn't wait one week to move his one vote.
It's all well and good for Joshua to stand on the shoulders of Moses ... they don't need to stomp him into the ground while they do it.
"With Sen. Barack Obama now emerging as the Democratic front-runner, clear signs suggest that his press treatment will soon change and that the media will fall back into their routine of viewing -- and critiquing -- leading Democrats through the eyes of Republican spin.
Just last week, we saw how a single line from a Michelle Obama speech was seized upon by conservative partisans, led by Fox News, to suggest she is not patriotic, and how that attack was given a wider airing in the mainstream press. "
Yes, dog -- it would be a good time to question what the twins and a LOT of young Repubs are doing during this war. Like Cheney during Vietnam, they all seem to have other priorities. But on cable news at least, whenever that is brought up, the commentators heap scorn on the whole notion.
It was more Alpha's comment on it that upset me. That kicked to the curb, out of the way old dog. One more week would have killed them?
You are right that the Democratic party took the black vote for granted and gave darn little other than an open door they could try to make the most of in exchange for that support. I just think they could have found a better young hero to follow to the Promised Land, though I have to admit he is good at promising.
Speaking of race relations , a woman I am friends with at work has an ex-brother-in-law who is the lead singer and guitarist in a blues band. He is white. The other two guys in his band are black. Last year , they played in a bluesfest show in the Muskegon , Mi. area. One of the black men in the band invited his black friends from work to come see their show. For the next week after their show this black man's friends did not want to speak with him at all. Why? Because he had a white guy in his band.
"Nah. She'd be too busy out campaigning for Obama. "
dog's -- She might well be on his team. Or not. And which ever candidate she backed, whoa-be-unto the fool who tried to mug her for it. One thing though, I'd put money down that Barbara Jordan would have demanded time on Matthews or one of the shows that were so blatently sexist to have her say. And if you get chills listening to Obama....you should have heard Barbara.
Ya know, it is what it is. I don't begrudge the Obama supporters for pressuring the superdelegates they think they can in order to make sure the messiah is nominated - and as I've said in the past I'll vote for him if he's the nominee - actually, it will be a grudging vote against McCain, but the effect is the same. I do begrudge the Obama camp for not acknowledging that their supporters have turned to playing the race card (and I HATE that expression, but it does convey what I think I see happening.)
But do I blame then for playing it? No I don't. Loyalty to old friends who have worked on your behalf in the past may not move whatever you perceive as your agenda, whether it be to stay in office or to advance policies that benefit you or whatever, and this is, after all, politics. I'm sure that many blacks see Obama as having more interest in addressing problems that affect many of the disadvantaged in their ethnic group - although I haven't heard that articulated and haven't heard how he plans to do that - and if so,they should support Obama and put pressure on their representatives to vote for him in their superdeegate role. Of course a line is drawn through this process, and it is a line that may come back as providing the ability for Obama to gain thenomination, and perhaps even the office, but may prevent him from being able to gather sufficient support for his agenda togovern effectrively. Then again, it may not.
But I have to say that it is discouraging to hear the same rhetoric I heard in the 60s and 70s about black leaders betraying their people and being Uncle Toms if they don't vote for Obama no matter what their own beliefs may be, but I guess we haven't gotten past the racial divides that have existed since the days of reconstruction, and it is deeply disappointing to see that. But maybe this is just paleo racial politics since I obviously don't get it, as Alpha has pointed out.
Thanks, Craig. Obama has perpetuated one of the biggest frauds in election history and the media aren't paying attention.
Hillary's campaign has definitely made mistakes and has not been nimble enough but the media has never concentrated on the beef--for most of them (MSM and so-called progressive blogs) it's been a Hillary-bashing, Obama-worshipping dog fight and the American people haven't figured it out.
In a ceremony that received virtually no attention in the American media, the United States and Canada signed a military agreement Feb. 14 allowing the armed forces from one nation to support the armed forces of the other nation during a domestic civil emergency, even one that does not involve a cross-border crisis.
If you think NAFTA is bad than what do you think about having Canadian Troops on our streets if the American Citizens rise up against our Government when Martial Law is enacted?
Could they be used if Der Fuhrer starts another war before the elections in November? Would you be willing to submit to foreign troops on our soil shooting American Citizens who will be labeled Enemy Combatants by Der Fuhrer Bush under the MCA of 2006 if we resist Martial Law?
You all better start thinking about this because it is a very real possibility this can occur.
pogo....
great post! what I see with this election process so far is classic human nature....
humans tend to gather round their own kind.... or tribe.... and yeah.... because of all our modern toys we think we've outgrown it..... but not so....
and no..... the younger generation will not change it either..... unless of course.... they aren't human..... ;)
well..... I'm off to my book club..... and off to packing for a much needed vacation....
Rick will be bringing along his laptop..... so I might surface a bit..... but then again.... I might just take a break from the machine.....
Just to keep you informed: The Right Wing has not given up on the Larry Sinclair story. It does appear that the polygraph exam was a set-up designed to discredit Sinclair --- very suspicious details. (There may have been a $750,000 payoff to WhiteHouse.com).
About race relations - I know zero African Americans. I did not avoid them, I just have never had an opportunity to develop a friendship with anyone of that race. I have lived all over this country, I have met almost every other race and religion. So I have no first hand knowledge of anything about being black in America in 2008.
It is really interesting to watch all these racial issues being discussed.
Patsi- Your comment about Barbara Jordan clicked into my memory banks:
And if you get chills listening to Obama....you should have heard Barbara.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 9:50 AM
So right you are! I could almost hear her eloquent remarks delivered in her very distinct , melodic voice at the Nixon impeachment hearings as if it just occurred.
Thanks for bringing her up, lest we forget those who came before & fought to open doors for many others.
I'd like to believe that she would stand with Hillary today.
I did ask a question about that Ohio brochure put out by Senator Obama's campaign, but didn't receive an answer. It said there was a picture of him with his father with the caption about his parent's influence on his life. My question was father or stepfather. If it was his father rather than stepfather, then that is more of the bait and switch tactics that disturb me.
I'm looking forward to the conversation with Alpha simply because we will definitely be talking from two different generational viewpoints and she's on the west coast. If she's California, then there will be a whole lot of interesting perspective going on.
I have a bit of time, so let me try to consolidate some of the questions asked. Please excuse any spelling or grammatical errors.
Patsi et. al.,
The CBC members falling out of favor because of a disconnect with their voters is nothing unique to African American politics. It happens everywhere. But with black Congressional leaders, it's just a bit more stark when it happens.
When speaking about Maxine Waters, of all CBC members, I know her the best. For most of my life, she was my Congressional representative. And like most CBC reps, her focus is around traditional CBC issues (social services in her district) and national issues. That's fine and that's important. But when you've been unchallenged for your seat for decades, you tend to think that the ideas that may have been important when you were first elected, are still the same important issues five or six terms later.
So these CBC members don't recognize the issues when college educated African Americans who grew up in their districts, decide to come back and buy homes. What are those issues? Well, many of them are purchasing risky sub prime loans as a pathway to the middle class. Now a CBC member on the ball would recognize that hey, "maybe we should really, really make sure that we have oversight so that if things go belly up, our neighborhoods won't be devastated."
That gets the attention of young African American voters. They then take a look around their neighborhoods and begin asking questions. Why is their representative against vouchers, particularly when they are spending money to send their child to parochial schools because their neighborhood public schools have been and always will be crappy? Their representative may be tied to the teachers union because they need to get re-elected, but the African American voter says they're not willing to sacrifice their child's one time education for a CBC's re-election.
These African American voters then begin looking at food deserts (places where fresh fruits and vegetables are almost non existent) and begin wondering why their CBC rep hasn't fought for funds to create urban farmers markets? This black voter pays attention to things like the latest ag bill which allocated $30 mill for urban gardens. Did your CBC rep take part? Did they even recognize the problem?
So when you have year after year of CBC members not concentrating on the issues of TODAY rather than living off the works of YESTERDAY, then you get challenged. And if anyone has any doubt that these African American voters will look all of these CBC members dead in the eye and tell them that, including Waters, Lewis and yes, the late Barbara Jordan, then they missed what happened during this primary.
If this was a decade ago, Hillary would have picked all of the right CBC members to influence. But guess what? This year, those same CBC members not only were rejected but received enough blow back that they started having to answer for their own performance. Some CBC members recognized that early, like Rep. Clyburn. Others, like Charles Rangel, were and are tone deaf.
So the Civil Rights era CBC membership is about to be challenged and then passed. You'll start seeing more Duval Patricks, Cory Bookers, Barack Obamas, running for office. Funny, but you should start looking at this as moving beyond racial identity politics to something more complex. These new representatives will have forward ideas that are more geared toward issues that affect all Americans.
Very creative video especially on a Friday leap year day that won't exist next year. Now I understand why elections are held during leap years (I think there might be an exception to this...not understanding all celestial/calendar mathematics), one more day of politicking!
And where did you find that "pimpish" dude on Scam #3...David Shuster files?
"'African-American superdelegates are being targeted, harassed and threatened,' said Rep. Emanuel Cleaver II (D-Mo.)...'nasty letters, phone calls, threats they’ll get an opponent, being called an Uncle Tom.'"
A little follow-up to last nights discussion. Listening to POTUS08 and other programs this morning...it really angers me that they don't talk more about this or give voice to this. Someone said MSNBC did this morning...I missed that part and only saw the very end where Clayburn said they weren't being threatened...of course...he's a guilty party so of course he would say that.
"Rep. Diane E. Watson (D-Calif.), a black lawmaker and Clinton backer, said the intense lobbying for Obama would not alter her vote...'I’ve gotten threatening mail,' Watson said. ..But I don’t intimidate. I can hold the ground. … I would lose my seat over my principles.'"
One last thing before I hit the road. Jamie, you should get out of the thought process that these African American voters are looking for some sort of Messiah to lead them out of the desert. This idea that we're constantly on the lookout for the next MLK (or as Africans call it, The Big Chief Syndrome) is wrong.
In fact, one of the lessons this generation of younger African Americans learned is that there is no one leader and we don't need a Moses. So Barack isn't looked at in that way. He IS looked at as a representative of themselves: Educated, intelligent, on equal terms (or better) with white opponents, and very secure with who he is. In other words, the values the Civil Rights movement was supposed to create in an African American.
Dog posted: "latest Pew poll shows both Dem candidates beating McCain. Hillary Clinton is stronger among self-identified Democrats (89% vs 81%)"
This is great news - another reason people have been pointing to why Obama should be the candidate...electability has now also been dispelled.
He's not going to bring change to Washington because he's proven that he participates in old school dirty politics like the rest of them. So change is no longer a criteria.
He's not the only DEM leading over McCain in a general election. So electability is off the table.
So what other criteria do we have?
Oh...who is best prepared and has a detailed plan to move us forward out of the mess we're in...that would be Hillary. So obviously Hillary should be the democratic nominee.
alpha, between work,errands and hosting band practice for Li'l Pogo's band, I'm going to be in & out today and may miss you while you're on, but want to let you know that I appreciate your perspective and the thoughtfulness of your posts. You bring a perspective that in this transformational political season we aging boomers definitely need. Oh, and welcome to the daddy get the kid ready and to school club. I'm not much of a joiner, but that's one club I'm happy to have become a member of.
And mornin' Wendy! That was me that caught the Cleaver discussion on mojo and brought it up.
Having read Alter's 'Between the Lines,' I really didn't get his reasoning (I saw you had a reference to it on your video). If HRC, was more behind in delegates, I would see his point. I mean the same case could be made for BHO to step aside...it is that close. The media is playing-up 11 straight losses and ignoring California. I sure remember hearing that February would most likely be a 'winless" month for Hillary back in January. If the dem nomination were a "winner take all" primary/caucus like the repugs, I could see this. It will be interesting to see the results after March 4th. It isn't over yet, eventhough the media wants us to believe that. Maybe hate is stronger than love in the media. There is a fine line between hate and love and they are not opposites. The opposite of love/hate is apathy.
Do you follow the Right Wing? They are very good at Attack/Smear. I don't have all that much confidence in the voting public. After all, many have fallen for this Obama nonsense.
Scott Walterman on POTUS08 didn't even bring it up - put this - change is in the air spin on it w/o getting to the heart of what was really going on - threats and intimidation wrapped up with a pretty bow of change.
That said...I actually do appreciate alpha's POV on the issue of young black voters and think the last part of his post regarding young black voters not looking for a Moses was very interesting.
From what I've seen...it's the young white voters that need a Moses...so alpha may be right that the younger black voters are looking at things from a far more practical and progressive lens.
Another link for Craig on Republican logic. And the fact more Democrats have voted for Clinton so far adds to the picture.
Obama would like Democrats to believe that come November, those Republicans and Independents will vote blue over McCain. With new sanctions on Iran, warships off Lebanon, blood in Darfur, violence in Gaza, moderates in Pakistan signing deals with militants, Canadians rejecting NAFTA blasts, Chavez threatening neighbors, NATO limp in Afghanistan, McCain won't be looking so feeble. Add that to the media starting to examining the Obama stories and Democrats might be stunned over their candidate.
Or maybe we all will just believe.
Glad to see I was not the only one with long posts...LOL
Those are all interesting issues and since I know the city well, I can particularly understand the importance of the housing and access to quality stores within the area.
You may find it interesting that in 1944 my parents lived in Leimert Park. At the time it was middle class white but transitioned over to black by the 50s. I last visited the neighborhood in 1961, but at least got to see the beginnings of the art and jazz scene there. At the time I lived in Westchester which was a white area. That school has now become part of a multi racial middle class area. My father graduated from Fremont High School in 1934 and I attended school there during 1959. Again a story of transition from white to black with the generational shift as the school had become about 90% black and 10% mexican with whatever smidge of a percentage that could be carved off was me.
The whole point being that for a variety of reasons, I've always taken a multiplicity of racial influences for granted and in some ways deplore while understanding the almost harsh aura that the younger AA generation displays.
In thinking about this, I did a little surfing. You might find this web page dedicated to Leimert Park interesting. http://leimertpark.ning.com/
Oh all this talk about Hillary getting out of the race is being generated by the Obama campaign because their run is now coming to an end. Hillary is expected to win far more races than he in the coming up primaries and so going into the convention she'll look more like the frontrunner than he and the Obama camp is starting to worry. It's all about who is winning going into the convention.
Thought Clyburn's comments were very interesting this morning on MSNBC. He said superDs should not take 2nd place person and put them into first no matter who it is...UNLESS...when they get to the door of the convention whomever was in first place was not..."panning out"...
What does that mean? If you ask me it was a Wilhelm like statement just more eloquently put.
Just say it people. If Barack is in 2nd place in pledged and/or popular vote...the superDs are welcome to put him over the top because they think he's more electable. But if Hillary is in 2nd place they ARE NOT allowed to put her over the top because they think she is better prepared to be President.
I also believe that the repugs dogs will tear BHO to pieces in November. Hillary is a bit tougher meat, but seemingly poisonous to the media. But, I believe she would survive much better in November. I know I have the repeating disease, but the only hope would be a dream team for the dems. And no one has really suggested a good "healer" for August. A Blue "Heeler", perhaps? They sure a great dogs.
In hunting around for bits of my past for Alpha, I'm finding all sorts of interesting stuff. Young, activist, Obama supporter covering Diane Watson's support of Clinton with video and audio and article about other CBC members and their votes.
" After all, many have fallen for this Obama nonsense."
Gordo....we are all well aware of the right wing smear machine that got by with calling Max Cleland a coward. But the is NO REASON to bombard this crowd with all that crap. There are legitimate issues to discuss, but all you seem to do is go on-and-on-and-on about the potential smears.
I asked you once before: Shall we start up the Hillary is a lesbian who killed her loved Vince Foster talk?
Wendy: "From what I've seen...it's the young white voters that need a Moses...so alpha may be right that the younger black voters are looking at things from a far more practical and progressive lens.
It's an interesting discussion."
Indeed it is. And I think you are right about the anglos somehow needing a messiah more than the younger blacks.
"I'm not going to allow people to run me out of my support for my candidate. I don't think anybody wants the kind of supporter that would run away when times are tough. Times are tough but I'm with her."
Wendy...I agree with you, but the media is really trying to push BHO over HRC. It is on every cable channel that it is over for HRC. Alter in his Newsweek opine whine 'Hillary Should Get Out Now,' states "But, to withdraw this week would be the best thing imainable for Hillary's political career. She won't, of course, and for reasons that help explain why she's in so much trouble in the first place." What sort of double speak is that?
" thought process that these African American voters are looking for some sort of Messiah"
That was a reference back to the Obama speech where he likened himself to a Joshuah preoceeding from the "Moses" generation of MLK. I'm not saying that all of the younger generation think that way, but rather that a lot of his supporters are seeing the picture he is painting of them and himself.
Gordo, You may have noticed that we tend to converse from message to message. Sometimes we CONVERSE, but tht usually tapers off eventually. What we don't do is just dump and run with some article or constantly hit on the same story over and over ... well except when we are CONVERSING.
You might try just talking instead of proclaiming.
Jamie, thanks for the Leimert Park link. This was one of the first areas integrated by African Americans post World War II. As you may know, until the William Byron Rumford Act, many African Americans were restricted from living in certain Los Angeles neighborhoods because of race clauses. Former mayor Tom Bradley moved to Leimert Park as one of the first blacks there.
My parents graduated from Manual Arts and Washington High respectively in 1965, so they're boomers too. Much of central Los Angeles was transforming from white/Japanese (particularly in Leimert Park) to black. In 1972, we moved to Inglewood where we were one of the first black families on the block.
I mention this because it's important to understand that black Gen Xers and millennials are solidly middle class compared to previous generations. Around 70% of African Americans consider themselves to be in the middle class. So opportunities were presented and taken. And that affects the mindset.
I actually graduated from Loyola High School, the oldest high school in Los Angeles. We're also recognized as one of the best academic schools in California. That Jesuit experience shapes how I look at issues in my community. And one quick note: I think we have to get more sophisticated about how we look at race and culture.
I noted before that younger African American voters aren't particularly interested in racial politics, but black politicians who meet the needs of all Americans. Because our needs are the needs of all Americans.
HOWEVER, because we are so afraid of race, we tend to negate the importance of African American culture. Like any other culture, African Americans bond around things that tie them together. Whether we live on the same block, go to the same church, are related or not related, live in the suburbs/inner city, we see ourselves as being part of one community and one culture. It is our strength and what has allowed us to beat slavery, beat Jim Crow and beat the new strategies of our enemies. That said, there's always been a diversity of thought in our culture. WEB DuBois was polar opposite of Booker T. Washington. MLK and Malcolm X were sometimes opposed. And I could go on ad nauseum. But at the end of the day, we remain a community. And that's why it's important that our representatives be very in touch with the community needs. If you're not, you can find yourself looked upon as either malicious outlyer (Ward Connerly, Condi Rice) who works actively against the needs of the community, or irrelevant. The CBC members are fighting to remain relevant.
I believe that every black CBC Clinton supporter has the right to support whomever they want. What I don't believe is that they should complain because they get flack from their constituents. Hey, I'd say that for anyone supporting Obama against the wishes of their voters. If you make a choice, then by all means, stick with it. But don't be shocked when someone may mobilize against you. That's democracy.
The public has already heard that stuff about Hillary. Obama is an unknown - he will be defined by the Right Wing. Many of his supporters will be disappointed and drop off. Yesterday, I heard a reporter ask a young white man why he was for Obama. The answer, " uh uh uh uh CHANGE!". That's a soft voter-would he be for Obama in Nov?
Did anyone notice that in yesterday's often-aired clip, Senator Clinton, referring to Senator Obama, criticized him for "toutin' " his credentials and "runnin' " for office instead of holding committee meetings? Is her Texas strategy to emulate Mr. Bush, dropping each g to sound as down-home friendly as he does?
Also, Craig, you questioned Senator Obama's position on NAFTA. Just because we "present a friendlier face to the world" (which you pointed out was one of Senator Obama's objectives), that doesn't mean that we can't negotiate, does it? It is Mr. Bush who sees friendliness and negotiation as mutually exclusive terms, but they really don't have to be.
It has been ages since I've thought about Loyola HS. You were very fortunate to attend such a remarkable school. Is the kid you were getting off to school a boy or girl? Are we looking at a possible second generation attendee?
You do say something that disturbs me a bit: "HOWEVER, because we are so afraid of race, we tend to negate the importance of African American culture."
Maybe just a bit ahead of my time or the rather weird upbringing, but it's never been a fear of any kind for me. At the same time I recognize and respect that groups of similar heritage share a zeitgeist that others without that background can only learn and appreciate in part. Still it has always been true that there is a commonality of needs and desires to all no matter who or what they are and I think if we can expand from that commonality, then the racial aspect will become something that we visit and enjoy by choice.
I have a race-related California story that shows how bizarre this country can get.
My dad hitched his way from Kansas to California during the Dust Bowl. He took a look around the fruit picking business and opted to go for oil wildcatting with a small company around Pomona. My folks and four older sisters stayed until World War II was almost over. My oldest sister was a junior high cheerleader in Pomona, and one day my parents received a letter to come to the school about a "problem."
The problem was, a bunch of parents had got together a petition against "that Jap on the cheer squad."
Dad stopped at the school the next morning and when he walked in, the principal said, "Oh! Is your wife Japanese?"
"No," he answered.
"Well, maybe your daughter just looks foreign because you're a Mexican," the principal answered.
My father was fairly dark skinned, with very black hair. But his heritage was French and Welsh. He never did correct them, though.
In Denver a lot of people thought my kids were Chicanos, especially because we were close to Corky Gonzales' crowd. And when we moved to TN, even the black assistant principal at my daughter's high school thought she was a light-skinned black. Tracy never corrected her until during her senior year when the woman gave her some minority scholarship forms to fill out.
"If you make a choice, then by all means, stick with it. But don't be shocked when someone may mobilize against you. That's democracy. "
Awhile back there was a great deal of discussion about how should these Super Delegates vote: With their conscience or with their delegates. If the choice is "with their delegates" then a Ted Kennedy should be voting for Hillary Clinton. If with his conscience, then the vote goes to Sentor Obama. I think you have a what is good for the goose situation. If members of the CBC go against their consituents, then there is no problem with other legislators going against the will of theirs, but if the pressure is to vote with your constituents or else, then that must be true of all.
Cherrypicking among the "I get this one because of their voters and I get this one because he/she supports me" just doesn't fly.
Alpha: agreed about the you may get mobilized against for who you support...I admire Maxine Waters for saying she'd rather lose her seat. I also admire Tubbs Jones for having the guts to stick it out as well and not fold to the pressure. Yes, it's politics, but it shows that these women will stand on principal rather than fold to political pressure - that's what we need in Washington...not a vague notion of Obama change...but these kind of women that will stand up to political pressure...especially political pressure from the boys club. I need to do more research on Tubbs Jones - I really like her style and exuberance.
Also...I grew up in North Long Beach sounds like around the same time you were in Inglewood so we were neighbors.
"Now no one is surprised to have Mr. Goolsbee possibly talking to Canada. Trying to hide that fact once the story is out is another matter. However, the problem really comes in when Obama is obviously telling Ohio voters one thing to get their votes, while his econ guy is assuring a NAFTA partner that nothing is going to change if he gets into the White House."
That is a funny story. My father is a dark hair, dark complected Scot so I had the olive complextion from that side and then the rather reddish hair from my mother as well as high cheekbones courtesy of some indian in the family. People both in the state and in Mexico would come up and start chattering away in Spanish and unfortunately get a rather blank stare in return until I could get them to slow down enough for my limited vocabulary to handle.
If I recall my first primary convention for Bill, we were in lockdown until they drove our ballots to Denton county HQ. I remember it being kind of a long night anyway; seems like I was there for a couple of hours.
It may be true what dog posted.
{Dog posted: "latest Pew poll shows both Dem candidates beating McCain. Hillary Clinton is stronger among self-identified Democrats (89% vs 81%)"
This is great news - another reason people have been pointing to why Obama should be the candidate...electability has now also been dispelled.}
However without Independents and even some Republicans crossing the line to vote Democratic in the election a Democrat can not win.
Democratic sources said both campaigns have made it clear that they might consider legal options over the complicated delegate selection process, which includes both a popular vote and evening caucuses. But the sources made it clear that the Clinton campaign in particular had warned of an impending lawsuit.
"Both campaigns have made it clear that they would go there if they had to, but I think the imminent threat is coming from one campaign,'' said one top Democratic official, referring to the Clinton campaign. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity.
Both camps threatened to sue - one anonymous "top" Democratic official said he/she thought the Clinton camp really threatened, so the banner is the Clinton camp threatened to sue. That's it - Arianna can push her candidate, but not at me.
Well, after 2 years of using HuffPo as a major source for political news, I have to look for someplace else. Two straws today have broken the camel's back. Here's a column HP carried 2 weeks ago about Hillary's opposition to NAFTA - note the sources in the story.
Two opposing views from different viewpoints - the insiders whose job it was to promote their boss' agenda and one of the preeminent reporters with access to those folks said she opposed it, the outsiders who opposed it and didn't hear her speak out publicly against her husband's new presidency (what first lady has ever publicly challenged her husband's agenda?) say she didn't. Huffpo of course sides with the outsiders and banners the article today as a conclusion.
To avoid multilink prison, I'll post the other straw separately.
I just can't take a progressive political news source that I once respected pushing bias for one progressive candidate over the other - back to the Times, the Post and RealClearPolitics, I suppose.
Did you look at the poll - Hillary and Obama are within a few points of each other on the Indie vote as well as the Republican vote (which for vote would not even be worth talking about as criteria - 8 and 5 percent)...so I stand by my electability not worth waisting a vote on Obama argument.
The head of the Democratic party here in Washington is getting a rather large earful about the caucus system as well. These states simply were and are not ready for the Obama caucus machine and the Clinton camp got blindsided by it and are just now trying to figure out a way to fight back.
The sheer size of the turnout as well as the coordinated transportation of large groups was an aspect that these for the most part, pleasant evening out with like minded friends, has turned into a high pressure juggernaut. There is an intimidation factor involved in having your decision overwhelmed by a much larger opposition group and when that group (See Alpha1906 above about fear and cultures) is of another race it becomes even more intimidating. I know there was one very forceful lady in Washington pushing in our precinct and I was lucky to hang on to the small crew of Clintons I was able to corral until we reached a respectful, laugh filled understanding that poaching on either side was not a good thing and just sat down to count and add up the numbers together.
It was probably always a method waiting to be exploited, but Senator Obama did it in this election and it cost Senator Clinton all those caucuses. This will be the wave of the future now and I can see a whole lot of states moving to the primary system simply because it exposed a way for a movement to potentially erase the democratic will of the majority of the people.
Dog it is interesting that you would make such a comment to me. I've never had a problem with you. I have both agreed and disagreed with you and have never made a disparaging remark about you or to you.
That said, it surprises me that you would call me out for being strident when there are clearly far more STRIDENT people posting on the comments section of this blog than me. I don't recall you saying to any of the Obama supporters that they are "particularly strident" even though some clearly are far more strident than myself.
I would also never make a comment about that to someone - whether I think they are or not - they are entitled to their energy - if I'm offended or off put by someone that comments here - I simply skip it.
I usually don't respond to personal attacks as I usually choose to just...consider the source. You have never been a "consider the source" person for me...so...well...I guess...well it hurt my feelings...but I'll try to go on.
dog -- I realize that indies and Reagan voters are now running the Democratic party, but do we now have to read that slimy conservative queen Andrew Sullivan?
"That said, it surprises me that you would call me out for being strident when there are clearly far more STRIDENT people posting on the comments section of this blog than me."
I resemble that! Ha -- Wendy, you aren't strident....you just haven't perfected the art of passive aggressive posting.
Wow...if only our biggest problem were a whether gays could get married...it would make this process so much easier.
As to the gay marriage issue...they have the same stance and frankly...BO stance on gay issues is far murkier than Hillary's so if it's gay issues...I'd personally be more worried about him.
"However, the Obama camp did not respond to repeated questions from CTV on reports that a conversation on this matter was held between Obama's senior economic adviser -- Austan Goolsbee -- and the Canadian Consulate General in Chicago."
I don't give a rat's ass what Bill said about DOMA - you can't point to a single statement of Hillary's supporting it then or now and you're still doing the same dishonest Billary conflation.
Actually maybe I can make it to the gym today. It would probably be easier that responding to Wendy's arguments why she still thinks Hillary can and should pull it off.
Some of those arguments are so far-removed from reality - I feel like I am watching an episode of Lost...
What will be Wolfson's argument on Mar. 5. We were so close in TX and OH - that it is kinda like we won. Plus - give us a break - we did pretty good considering that the Obama campaign has more money, is better organized and has the better candidate. So we feel last night was a great victory for Hillary.
Dog - not true - just the best candidate left in the race...
You can look back at my posts that say that there are other candidates I'd happily vote for and tickets that don't include Hillary I'd vote for...so NO not Hillary at all cost...she's just the best one left in my view...and I'm just making my point...in doing so...I attempt to dispel what I believe is the Obama myth.
Obama supporters put out all their pro Obama and anti Hillary links...I'm just doing the same - fair and balanced.
Oh and as to my post on the poll...I'm dispelling the electability argument.
Hillary has very strong numbers among Dems. Her numbers are also very good among Indies...not not as good as obama's but w/in a few points. I don't even take the Republican numbers as helpful - 8 and 5 percent? Not helpful.
Obama clearly also has negatives and has electability issues as does Hillary as does McCain. As i have said here before. There are groups of voters they will ALL have to win over. This poll shows that Obama and Hillary both at exactly 50% will have the same problems just with different groups and it's a long way to Nov.
So...my argument is that electability can be taken off the table as a reason to vote for BO as he is no more electable than she is.
Warren...you say my arguments are removed from reality...yet you don't point out the flaws in my argument or try to dispel them - just a blanket statement that my arguments are removed from reality.
I believe I look at the heart of the matter - dig a little deeper into what's really going on.
If you say he's more electable and thus should have my vote based on that...I see evidence to the contrary.
If you say he's going to change Washington by ushering in an era of a new kind of politics and thus should get my vote, I see ample evidence to the contrary.
I'm looking for a reason to vote FOR him.
Nobody is providing me one.
Perhaps it is you Warren who is removed from reality as you persist in your support of an image.
I have given you many reasons to vote for Obama - but I suspect when you read them - you are too busy thinking of counter-arguments for those points to resonate. I think I will save my efforts till after Mar. 4 - maybe at that point you will have a bit more of an open mind...
BTW all - Taylor Marsh was not the original source of the Obama CTV quote - that was CTV themselves calling him out. I know some people will write that off as being...oh it's Taylor Marsh...but CTV is not giving up on this...let's see what happens.
dog's eye -- But independent voters do not build the party. They float from candidate to candidate and do very little of the real work it takes to make a political party viable over time. It's fine to say "you need the independents and Republicans" -- but what I think is happening is a watering down of the principles that Democrats hold dear. I see us now becoming the party of accomodation.
In the old days we might have been able to work with Republicans. But in the post-Newt world, I don't think so. That was my biggest gripe with BillClinton He thought he could deal with the buzzsaw. I'm already seeing some of these younger male bloggers waffling on right-to-choose, saying maybe some "give" is required to get the wing nuts off our back.
This season we had the chance to gut the policies Bush dumped on us. No wonder the Republicans love the idea of Obama-the-conciliator. Given what has been done to this country by Republicans, especially during the past 8 years I am just dumbstruck that now we're being told we "don't want a fighter." I damn sure do.
I worked in animal rescue in South Central area of LA for many years. Actually specialized in Pit Bull rescue and rehab for many years. I lost my Pit/Boxer last year to cancer - that's when we got the french bulldog (wanted another bulldog but needed a townhouse size.
OK guys...save the pit bull personality jokes...LOL
Warren - I know you've given many reasons for why you support Obama and we can look back at the posts - I've NEVER criticized YOU with regards to those reasons. It doesn't matter whether I agree with your reasons...they are your reasons. My posts here today regarding criticism of Obama and criteria for voting for him was not directed at you specifically.
I know you said you'd rather have Obama because you feel he'll listen to the American people and that Hillary has a blueprint she's going to force upon you. I, at the time, said I liked a person with a plan.
You have not changed your position...and I could easily say you are equally as stubborn as me...yet I don't - there is no need to - you are entitled to your view and to post what you want about that view just as I am entitled to post my view and if I want to stick by Hillary and criticize BO...I'm entitled to do that.
It seems to me that some on this board - and yes Warren I'm going to lump you in here - when you can't address the issue that someone is specifically bringing up with any good counter point - you attack them on a personal level. I'm not saying Clinton supporters don't do it as well. I don't mind defending my point but if I have to defend myself, personally, I'll just start skipping your posts like I do some others.
Feb 28th, Ohio state representative Eugene Miller spoke passionately on Hardball about his continued support for Hillary Clinton, despite a reactive organized attempt to take him out in the primary. I have seldom heard someone speak about Hillary Clinton with such clarity and eloquence. I hope this young man gets into national politics one day because we need more with his courage. So I ask you to consider helping him out with a campaign donation. He doesn’t have a sophisticated site that takes cards, but here’s the address where you can send a check:
State Representative Eugene Miller
540 East 105th Street
Suite 305F
Cleveland, OH 44108
Make checks to The Committee to Re-Elect Eugene Miller
BASIC INFO: Eugene R. Miller has lived in Greater Cleveland his entire life. After earning his GED at the age of 20, he went on to earn his Bachelor's degree in Sociology at Baldwin-Wallace College. Mr. Miller knows the hardships of balancing the efforts associated with being a single (custodial) parent, a hard worker, and a student. He is an experienced political manager and coordinator. He believes that opportunity is the cornerstone of this society. (In 2006 Mr. Miller worked for the Office of Congresswoman Stephanie-Tubbs Jones while running his own campaign as a candidate for Ohio House Of Representative's 10th District.)
I think the Dem establishment needs to start listening to that 21-year old superdelegate that is supporting Obama. That kid seems like a whiz! Maybe he should be Obama's VP.
When you get a chance please look at my 8:16 from this morning.
From your later posts this morning I can better understand your situation and that of others similarly situated in your community. But, I have real trouble translating that experience to the under-40 cohort as a whole, not just within your demographic, but across the country.
I understand your comments about the older group of black elected officials as indicating that they are no longer relevant. Such a shame as many of them are heroes to all of us.
I live in South Carolina. You mentioned Rep Clyburn as one who saw the light early on. I thought he saw the writing on the wall and he chose to throw Clinton under the bus while Kennedy was telling approaching traffic to 'hit-it!'. So be it.
But, then I'm extrapolating from what I saw here and read in a Philip Gailey oped out of St Petersburg that ran the Sunday before the Florida primary. It's unfair of me applying that bias in suggesting these are tactics that are being employed across the country.
"I think it is great that Eugene became an elected official after earning his GED. And I'm not being snarky - I really do think that is cool."
AND went to college on his own, and has a whopping $100,000 student loan debt. This country is disgraceful in the way we treat people who want an education.
PS -- I knew you weren't being snarky even before I read that part...:)
Pushing it a little. He can't even become a Congress Critter until he is 25. Maybe he could run for a state office to start making contacts and finding money.
Did anyone here watch the New York Philharmonic's perfromance in Pyangyang? I was on PBS last night...besides the fact that it was a magnificent performance, I am intrigued by this parallel.
The link I'm including below is of Rep. Jack Kingston blasting Obama for not wearing a flag lapel pin. Of course the Congressman wasn't wearing one either at the time. I bring this up because between pieces, Bob Woodruff had taped segments to show what the North Koreans were like. He made special note of how each citizen wore a pin over their heart to memorialize Kim Il Song. I wonder if I am the only one who sees the disturbing parallel here?
And while I'm here, another point. All these patriotic people who are against flag burning, you ever wonder why they aren't offended by stores that put the American flag on underwear? Lord know that the average hick/ghetto idiot probably doesn't do a good job wiping their asses, yet we are more willing to tolerate shit stains on the American flag? How is this worse than someone making a legitimate political statement by burning the flag, which happens less than a dozen times a year?
Hell, when some anti American protestors in another country burns our flag, I laugh at them because that's all they got to support their point? I think they immediately marginalize themselves by doing so.
breaking news: blogger nancy nall revealed Bush aide (and Rove right-hand-man) Timothy Goeglein is a plagarist.
I am a regular visitor and poster at nancynall.com. The full story is hashed out in lenght on her blog...here's the WaPo report...it's on Drudge, too....
" I wonder if I am the only one who sees the disturbing parallel here?"
Bear -- don't get me started on flag pins -- or flag anything else for that matter -- or Freedom fries, or those yellow Support the Troops magnets (made in China) on cars. If every a-hole who thought those ribbons showed their support would have sent the $2 bucks to the National Veterans Foundation (that helps council vets who fall through the cracks) we'd see some real progress.
Whatever her name is (I think she's married to another "journalist") she just came within an inch of calling a black congressman a liar for saying some Superdelegates were receiving threats. You could tell that he thought she was an idiot...it's not like he's the only one talking about this. God, she was rude!
Cold and rainy here. And I just made the best comfort casserole in the world. Hamburger, macaroni, onions, green beans, corn, garlic, some herbs and hot paprika..a little tomato and mushroom soup....topped it off with refrigerated biscuits the last ten minutes. YUM.
warren, you may know me better than you know. LOL. Actually, I was attracted to Taylor Marsh when I caught her radio show while I was on a business trip to Flagstaff or Seattle - I forget which now - long before I ever saw her website and that low cut top, which didn't hurt at all. *L*
That was Rep. Cleaver (at least at one point he was onn by phone). He said that he didn't receive any threats but talked with fellow black congress members who had received those threats, letters and taunts.
Norah O'Donnell...beautiful, annoyingly transparent regarding her political proclivities, incredibly irritating laugh; married to a CHEF, recently gave birth to twins, already pregnant with their virtual triplet....
Noron is another of the MSNBC crew masquerading as news people while being hopelessly partisan. Everything she says about Senator Clinton will be just an itty bit oh so sweetly negative while everything she says about Senator Obama will practically drool with warmth and delight. You almost have to watch her do it, because a straight transcript just does quite capture the lip curled with disdain or the slavish ingratiating smile.
If it weren't such an evil perversion of her profession, you would have to admire her talent.
Gay or straight, no one here is kicking her out of bed...pregnant or not, unless she turned out to be a handler for O'Brien...
George Costanza: Didja see the way she was looking at me?
Jerry Seinfeld: She's a Nazi, George. A Nazi!
George Costanza: I know, I know. Kind of a cute Nazi though.
Just watched Norah interview with Cleaver...laughable. She looked disappointed in the end that all her interrupting and accusation didn't trip him up in any way...
If they wanted to try and discredit these black superDs supporting Hillary that are bringing attention to this issue, they should have had Chris Matthews do it - he's much better at putting words in people's mouths.
Funny...poor MSNBC...they'll be doing documentaries about them soon exposing what hacks they've become. LOL
I had placed a bet about how long it would take for you to say something about downhome casseroles, B'rye. I'm still waiting for you to attack the young black congressman for getting a GED.
Matthews must have been taken to the woodshed. Either that or being confronted with a three woman panel in the first half he decided he couldn't do his usual schtick. Reasonable questions, reasonable answers, no interruptions. No spitting.
Just showed a video of Senator Obama preaching to the country about what is necessary to get out of poverty. All of them great ideas. How long ago did Senator Clinton write "It Takes A Village".
Hi gang. This links to an interesting story by a reporter for a small community paper in Chicago who covered Obama as he launched his political career in the early 1990s. A couple of interesting points: How Obama alienated a lot of his fellow African-American lawmakers with his ambition and relative lack of accomplishment until he found a political godfather in his later years as a legislator. Also some good perspective on Obama's personality and temperament behind the scenes -- stuff that's not really being written about much, if at all, by the hagiographers these days.
After having been a constituent during Marion Barry's Coke and Prostitute heyday, Ala Spending the Taxpayer's money on favors, bribes, and special trips, I'm slow to forgive....maybe I should.
How come Rice's response to the CTV issue is that the Canadian's issued a statement saying there was no contact and we take them at their word.
Wouldn't the Obama camp know if they contacted the Canadian Ambassador and be able to say emphatically themselves that there was no contact w/o having to say...Canada said we didn't and we take them at their word?
Thanks McCaina...I forgot that Obama promised he would pull out of Iraq...got scared there for a minute...especially since Obama is soooo truthful and keeps his promises.
Wendy, McCaina...the big lie of all the "pull out of Iraq" talk is that media commentators generally oversimplify and don't make the distinction between "troops" and "combat troops." And they let the Dem candidates get away with it as well.
Fact is, there is no way anyone, anyhow will ever be pulling out ALL U.S. TROOPS from Iraq for years to come. It just ain't gonna happen. Given the mess we've made, there will have to be a U.S. presence for a long time. Like...say...the way EPA has to monitor Superfund sites for years and years.
I'm afraid, I lamely have scratch cooked each and every campbells casserole on the planet.....as in pulled together every ingredient, just so I could say I could.....and found out it tasted better.
And before you all groan....I even whipped cream with a spoon in my twenties,, just because I wanted to know if I could. After all, if a chef could do it in the middle ages right?
Then I found out that they did it with a whip made of shredded birch.... lol
BTW took me two hours and I kept having to put everything back in the Frig....couldn't have made butter in that time, but I did it!
By the way, I'm not a food snob...and I'm not even qualified enough to describe myself as a "foodie." But I do love thinking about things like chopped garlic, chopped veggies, fresh fish, dill weed...pasta with marinara sauce. Potato soup. They all make me hungry just thinking about them. So I guess that qualifies me as an amateur foodie.
Sorry Flatus, but still getting over the flu. Here are answers to your questions.
1. Obama versus previous candidates: Every presidential election, African American voters are very aware that they're discovered by the Democratic Party as being very important. So suddenly, we see white politicians finding their ways to black churches etc. And guess what would happen after the election? Nothing. Or nothing until the last year of the last term, when nothing's at risk and presidential clout is at its most weak.
The under 40 African American voter doesn't believe that the day Barack is elected 'manna will rain down from heaven", we've had too many ineffective black mayors to believe that. But they do know that Barack will create policy where African Americans are not only at the table, but pushing the agenda. And if that's the case, why use a surrogate from outside the community, Clinton, to do the work someone FROM the community can do? Positive for Obama. This isn't too hard to follow. Why would women, particularly white women, want Obama to look after women's issues as a surrogate when they have Hillary? There are natural interests. It doesn't mean that Clinton can't be passionate about black issues, nor Obama about women's issues. But if all things being equal, why not go with the one who speaks more clearly on what you want to be addressed?
And there's no reason anyone can be specific about what any constituent wants from a candidate, no matter where you sit. Ask conservatives if being specific about what they wanted from Bush worked out. It's pretty ridiculous to think that any of these candidates are going to meet all of their promises. Voting for candidates is a gut feel, a place where you know the limits of the platform and then you make decisions on the edges. That's why I find it incredulous when Democrats say that "if Obama win, I'll vote for McCain". That's like a Siamese and Calico cats fighting and the loser saying he's going to now play with Pit Bulls in spite.
When it comes to the treatment of the black community versus white white community treatment, African American voters of this age want in on the discussion. If tax zones that encourage business are good in suburban neighborhoods, African American voters want in. They want new ideas and new ways to implement them. 70% of the African American community is middle income. Bring some of those non racial middle income ideas to our communities.
As for integration, there's no either or proposition. Integration was a remedy for state sponsored segregation. A radical way to break up enclaves of white power and more evenly and fairly distribute wealth. That doesn't mean that African Americans wanted to all live in some suburban utopia. They just wanted the opportunity to do so without restriction. That is about choice. I can start my own business or work for a multi national. I can live in an Orange County suburb or an inner city middle class black neighborhood. It's my choice. One choice doesn't reject the other. It's just different.
The dissolution of African American political power was never the goal of integration. But the maturing of that power (CBC members broke down the doors, but it didn't give them the divine right to leadership) is what you're seeing.
"A senior foreign policy adviser to leading Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama has told The Nation that if elected Obama will not "rule out" using private security companies like Blackwater Worldwide in Iraq. The adviser also said that Obama does not plan to sign on to legislation that seeks to ban the use of these forces in US war zones... "
Didn't those Blackwater guys murder a bunch of Iraqi civilians and get away with it because they can't be prosecuted?
1. Obama versus previous candidates: Every presidential election, African American voters are very aware that they're discovered by the Democratic Party as being very important. So suddenly, we see white politicians finding their ways to black churches etc. And guess what would happen after the election? Nothing. Or nothing until the last year of the last term, when nothing's at risk and presidential clout is at its most weak.
sorry - one more good quote from The Nation article:
"Senator Obama is concerned that Blackwater remains in Iraq, and he's concerned that they remain in Iraq and other countries totally unaccountable to US law and totally unaccountable to the law in the country in which they are operating." Which raises the question: If he's so concerned, why not throw his support behind a ban on the use of these forces in Iraq?"
yesterday Mrs Greenacres asked for Chicken Consomme since she had a cold.... ;0)
So I made it and the Boss, Mr Meat and Potatoes Everday Guys roared, "Hey! Wheres the meat! Where's the Vegetables" mrs Greenacres in her Ava Gabor aceent was heard to say.....oh Dawling, its consomme." he went on to say, "I don't care what it is!" it looks like Water!" lol
" I was not sure about both corn and green beans in it. "
Dog's eye -- I lost the recipe I'd written down from some food tv show (probably my fellow hillbilly Paula Deen) so I was just trying to remember....but I do know it didn't call for corn....but I had some left over...so...in it went.
I just noticed I have some frozen pork chops...and a can of baked beans....more culinary possibilities. Thanks!
I've read all of your recent posts and have got a lot out of them. There is a lot of sophistication and nuance there that has helped me sort through and process the Obama phenomenon and his appeal to the younger generations of African-American voters. So thanks for that contribution.
In all sincerity though...I have to ask you: Don't you think it's a bit of a stretch for Obama to lay claim (even if only implicitly) to the banner of "the African-American experience" in this candidacy, and all the freight that comes with that more traditional aspects of that banner? Which, all the nuance and sophistication of your posts aside, is being played by the media in its most simplistic, primary colors level. As far as the media coverage is concerned, Obama might as well have been the great-grandson of slaves and carried in swaddling arms at Selma. That's the way he is being treated in the media frenzy -- so far.
But in reality, he is just a modern man of modest political experience who happens to be black.
Neither of his parents were African American and he is not descended from slaves. He didn't really get involved in African American communities and their issues until he was nearly 30 (after enjoying a pretty elite education). And from everything I've read about him, he's spent most of his short political career avoiding being pigeonholed with that label and alienating other African American pols who are trying to do the heavy (and more traditional) lifting. Nothing wrong with any of that.
Except that -- to then get up and invoke the legacy of MLK and the oratorical cadences and the call-and-response of the black church at rallies, etc., etc., -- it all seems a bit phony and opportunistic. Like he wants to have it all ways. Does it not?
I think it's exciting to have a candidate of color running so prominently in this election -- but to me, Obama occupies the same historic ground as the first Hispanic-American or Asian-American (or female?) candidate would occupy.
The first American president who is a descendant of slaves? Now...THAT will be something at an even higher level, historically speaking, when we're talking about the Great American Journey. And it would deserve the level of breathless coverage that Obama has been getting.
But it ain't happened yet. And it won't happen this year...even if Obama wins.
I'd like to hear your perspective on some of these points.
Alpha -- I too appreciate your perspective. But let me say something regarding your criticism of Maxine Waters. Not everybody in the black community is as upscale as you seem to be. Ditto the anglo community, and most assuredly the hispanics.
I was a divorced mother and had to depend on the public school system. I couldn't afford any religious schools, nor would I have enrolled my kids in one anyway. My mother and sister were teachers and I am a staunch believer in public schools.
Vouchers are a Republican tactic to destroy the system. Maxine Waters knows that.
She tends to be more along my line of belief -- get the hell involved with the public school system. Go down there and see what your children are learning. Help out. Work with not only your own children, but others as well. Encourage critical thinking every time your child asks a question.
I'm afraid that when you speak of your generation, you mean the affluent part of it.
Patsi, you broke the code. Years ago I was listening to what was perhaps an NPR interview of a native American delegate to a gathering of delegates from all regions of the country.
This particular man was asked, "What do Indians think" about such and such a matter. The delegate, without hesitation said, "I have no idea was they think. I can tell you what my nation thinks. But I certainly cannot tell you what any other nation thinks."
If Obama ends up being the nominee I hope he can continue to quickly counter the attacks that McCain will throw at him. They have done a great job so far. If Hillary pulls out a miracle and wins she better improve 100% in her that department.
Up thread there is a news article written by a reporter who covered Senator Obama during his climb to the top period with some interesting stories about how he got on the fast track and his interactions within the community. It seems pretty even handed and well worth reading if you want some names and background. It seems a great deal of his resume was created with a great deal of assistance from others as opposed to his own efforts while at the same time acknowledging his intelligence, ideals, and ambition.
It does make him look as if not quite ready for primetime without being negative about it, but does give a great deal of background for that judgement.
Now, for something completely different: Is anyone else annoyed by Contessa Brewer's style? I like a little bit of the conversational news style, but not as much as Brewer gives. Anyone else? Bueller?
"I can start my own business or work for a multi national. I can live in an Orange County suburb or an inner city middle class black neighborhood. It's my choice. One choice doesn't reject the other. It's just different. "
Why settle for middleclass. There is always Baldwin Hills. Those privacy gates hide some pretty nice mansions. :-)
You should have given her the consume and then tossed all the stuff for war won ton into his. ... everybody happy.
I do love that chinese sliced pork,, and the snow peas, and the shrimp, and the water chestnuts, and the won tons ... sheesh making myself hungry and all I did today was pinto beans and ham hocks.
Jamie...BTW...I enjoyed your earlier recollections of LA childhood today. My sister lives in the new urban infill development that used to be by occupied by Hughes Aircraft (right down the hill from Loyola Marymount).
On my last visit, I decided to walk to her house from LAX...and my hike took me right through Westchester. I loved the look and feel of that community. Very retro, very what LA must have been like in the 50s. So I'll always now think of that hike when I think of you.
Seriously, Contessa Brewer barely has any press background. She has had very little experience other than talking head, because that "Head" is very pretty.
Lardass,
Contessa Brewer is the target of the TrailMixers' dart board.
I believe anything she says of any substance is piped into her earpiece syllable by syllable. Sometimes her total ignorance shows through anyway. What an airhead.
And Lardass? You must not have seen the pictures of me that were taken by a local paper's photog as I shovelled snow .
The Lardass challenge is ON!
econsmed...thanks for the Estrich article...very funny.
Had some interesting interactions with Estrich during my USC Law days...she's a character.
BTW Alpha - I've really enjoyed reading your posts today - they are very thoughtful and have brought a lot to the discussion.
LL - your 7:46 post in response to Alpha was also very thought provoking. I'm enjoying the discussion.
Also heard someone mention Biden as a good running mate for Obama...said Obama should choose him because Biden could be a good tutor for Obama. I was taken-a-back that the person everyone thinks should be President would need a tutor...but Biden on the ticket might give me pause to reconsider my position about him. Would be better if the ticket were Biden/Obama...but...the VP pick will be interesting.
Haven't given up on Hillary but am willing to consider some hypotheticals.
Are we going to have to continually dissect the African American experience amongst white and other people who have little or no clue? And what the heck does it matter anyway? He did this in 1950- well she said this - isn't that racist? No he is 1/2 black no he is an African american.......
He is just a man. (period)
Maybe I am not cut out for this , because this is getting old.
lookout! sheeee's back!! (my daughter brought home a stealth keyboard last night.. it's black and silent.. )
alpha...i've been reading your posts for days.. they're great.. it occurred to me today that a similar thing has been happening with what was a feminist perspective in the 70s. I went to college a little later than most, and I was at first appalled that my female classmates didnt espouse 'feminism' the way I did... my hero at the time was Gloria Steinem (hell, she still is).. but I came to realize that she and her sister writers weren't as relevant to my classmates as they had been to me...
my 19 year old daughter thinks i'm a dinosaur because I still use the word feminist.. i guess I am..
Wendy...don't despair about having supposed "tutors" play behind-the-scenes roles.
There was a politician from South Carolina in the 1940s named Jimmy Byrnes, a close FDR advisor who was probably the most qualified person in America to be president after FDR died. But Harry Truman ended up being president instead...and Jimmy Byrnes was his tutor. And it worked out all for the best. :)
Now see, this is why I'm a Democrat. We're the sane ones, people! This primary campaign is going to go on, but at least it was nice to have a couple of days of pretty pleasant discussions.
Hey Tylenol, I hear you on how generations redefine philosophies. And I'm not immune. I lecture on college campuses and I have to train myself to open my brain and understand the perspective of young black students. If not, I'll get left behind too.
Somebody just shoot me. Jonah Goldberg's book is #1 on the NY Times bestseller list. He's certainly had the cable news sales platform....bizarre when you remember that his only claim to fame was his mother's obsession with Bill Clinton's dick.
I don't know code, but I think I know (some) people, and I think that there is some issue at play here that are a tad bit scary.
That said, I do not find any fault, because after all we are a free country. We should thank those who sign up to defend our rights and who have die in service to protect our country and our rights.
Let the politicians play......it is a contest...and someone will win.
Rasmussen polls for Ohio released on Feb 29th shows Clinton 47% and Obama 45%.
It appears that the undecided are slowly breaking for Obama.
Hillary's numbers have been stagnant at 47%.
Alpha...do you know who Keith Woods is? He's a journalist and fellow at the Poynter Institute who gives brilliant lectures on the ridiculous use of race as descriptor in standard news stories. (As in, "police describe the suspect as a black man, 5-10 inches tall", etc., etc.)
As opposed to really describing the man...the exact shade of his skin, how many teeth he is missing, what his hair looks like, does he have any tatoos, and all that. In other words, actual useful data that might narrow down the suspect from huge chunks of the walking-around population.
But the willingness to accept (or even demand!) the traditional kind of kneejerk racial-descriptor crap pervades our media environment. And I think it actually, in a perverse way, bleeds over into something as lofty as the coverage of a presidential campaign.
Let us all know when your voice starts to change. You may start to notice other changes in your body as well. Like the appearance of hair in unfamiliar places and glandular swelling in other areas, depending on your gender.
(At least that's how my Catholic mom explained it all to me)
But seriously, dude (or chick) don't come to us like you have anything of value to offer if you can't remember major events from a mere 10 years ago. Otherwise, just watch and learn, with humility.
I remember when LAX was being built as the NEW airport with that spider shaped thingey as an icon.
In the 50s, I used to fly between LA and Phoenix or Albuquerque in the Continental tri tails. And when one of them was coming in to the OLD airport in LA, the cars would line up outside the fence to watch them land. :-)
I love Los Angeles so much. It has just been turned into such a cliche...but it is such a wonderful place in reality, such a beautiful city, having nothing to do with all the Hollywood crap. Just an amazing place where 20 million people have settled and are trying to make their way, and all that that implies. It doesn't have a goddam thing to do with J-Lo or Heath Ledger. It's just life.
I get on the 405 or the Santa Monica Freeway in a rental car, and to me it's the same thrill as riding up the elevator to the top of the Empire State Building or the World Trade Center (pre-2001). These are all wonders of the world.
If you happen to be at 78th and Bleriot, the house that Bleriot runs into is where I spent my off and on life for many years.
(To understand that, you have to know that I went to 21 schools in 12 years and my dad left the service when I was 7 so it wasn't military ... it was interesting to say the least. Most people have delinquent kids. I had delinquent parents. :)
New Developments Regarding Austin Goolsbee and CTV NAFTA Report
"But this evening new information has come to light: Senator Obama’s top economic advisor admitted to meeting with the Canadian consul general but has refused to deny that he discussed NAFTA in this meeting.
This raises a host of additional questions: Now that it is clear that this meeting occurred, what was discussed? Did Austin Goolsbee or any Obama official downplay Senator Obama's anti-NAFTA rhetoric to Canadian officials? Why have they have been trying to give the impression that no conversation ever occurred?"
I adore the LA of my memories except that it has become so incredibly crowded and I was last there twenty years ago. As Gertrude Stein said about Oakland, "There's no there there".
Still, If you make reservations at Dar Maghreb, I could probably find a plane ticket. :)
" It doesn't have a goddam thing to do with J-Lo or Heath Ledger. It's just life"
LAL - In my Los Angeles, those people are ahead of you in the check out line. Fernando Lamas and Esther Williams lived up the hill. Elvis Presley bought me a hamburger. The man across the street had an Oscar on his TV set, Donald O'Conner actually danced on table tops while waiting for his car repair, Rock Hudson said Hi on his way into the theater where I was cashiering for the premier of Come September and Liz Taylor apologized to my aunt for Eddie Fisher's behavior. Not quite Singing In The Rain time period, but less than 40 years later before the whole studio system went down the tubes.
I used to have to write those crime blotter columns when I was a young reporter. I refused to add race and told my editor that I wouldn't do it. Most of these crime blotters are designed to strike fear in readers anyway. It's not like when I talked about someone stealing a stereo from a mall parking lot, that some reader was going to go "Ah ha! I can now solve the case!"
Patsi, I didn't see your post initially. I don't think it's about being affluent when it comes to the AA community. We simply have consistently crappy public schools. By the third grade, black boys are usually testing below the state average. And we spend more money with decreasing results.
Charter schools like KIPP are doing a great job by emulating the mindset of private and parochial schools. But that still leaves the great majority of kids at failing schools. Failing schools get new teachers without experience. Kids are more likely looked upon as discipline problems.
It's not a matter of belief or involvement. My mother served on the school board for eight years, and yet I didn't step on a public school campus until college.
In a competitive world, your children have one shot at a great foundation. Many African Americans are tired of schools that fail that mission without an extraordinary effort. What you want are schools that work, and with your extraordinary effort, takes your child beyond his or her wildest dreams.
Do you know what the modern school system is modeled after? If you think about it, it makes complete sense. The modern school system is modeled after Henry Ford's assembly line, with the idea that if we teach kids in a mass way, with standardized test, they'll come out pretty identical. The goal: to be able to work in a factory.
Now our kids are given a mass education that sinks most and rewards the few. African Americans interested in vouchers look at it this way:
My child's brain is precious and I don't have time for philosophical arguments. I just want to take his brain to the best school possible. Will some public schools go away? Yep, with a whole bunch of bad teachers. But others like KIPP will spring up and compete with private schools. And children will flock there.
That is attractive to poor parents, single parents, two partner parents, etc. And at the very least, the discussion should move beyond the same reason for why not, but to how can we?
"That is attractive to poor parents, single parents, two partner parents, etc. And at the very least, the discussion should move beyond the same reason for why not, but to how can we?"
How about "no parents" In many ways I think the modern school system is designed for the lowest common denominator.
A point of consideration. What do those who have advantages owe to those who have none. What do the talented tenth owe to those left behind? Your child is precious to you and you have every right to want to education him/her to the best of their abilities to achieve and to expect the best education that your position and money can afford.
What about the child whose father is incarcerated. Whose mother is drug addicted. Who lives on a street where guns and graffitti are a community. How do you reach into a neighborhood and save that child? If there is any way to let them see a way up and pull them out, it is the public schools.
If you are going to ask for tax breaks so that your child can have privileges, then I think you owe it to those who can't travel the road laid out for that child, at lest see another road that you and othe parents have provided.
"Will some public schools go away? Yep, with a whole bunch of bad teachers. But others like KIPP will spring up and compete with private schools"
Alpha,
Off topic for this blog and thread, so no need to go into it.
I am not an educator but it seems to me that the voucher system will choke off the public schools and the voucher schools will just become the new public schools. Why not properly fund the public schools including decent teacher salaries, etc.
Patsi:
Nope, those photos of those kids were just part of the photog's shoot, a mile away from me...I don't know them. I'm the only one I know in that grouping.
Jamie: Remember in 1970 when the 747shttp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://lh3.google.com/_BN8iIUq893A/Ruvru9X1zDI/AAAAAAAAAIc/w55AyXjqbpM/s800/USA2007%2B549.jpg&imgrefurl=http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/8CAhexzz0ApjZtEgFCebQw&h=600&w=800&sz=75&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=xeDwhYW9nj0v9M:&tbnh=&tbnw=&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfirst%2B747%2Baircraft%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG were brand new?
At San Francisco International Airport hey rolled one out close to the Bayshore (101) so the people could see it. I was totally impressed!
38 years later and I have still never flown in one. I always get an Airbus now, it seems, but I rarely fly anymore.
Here's the Page One story from NYTimes I posted about earlier.
Ms. Nancy Nall, whose column I read for years when she was in Fort Wayne at Te News-Sentinel, broke the story.
The republican aide who was responsible in part for the evangelical rush to Bush has RESIGNED because of the exposure.
She's witty and has a lively blog. Check it out...addy is in story:
Today a sympathy radio ad ran. In his own voice he tells of being a POW & how a cell mate made little American flags from scraps of material (where did he get red & white?) & sewed a little American flag on the inside of his POW suit. The VC found them (2 of them) and beat the guy each time. So McCain knows what it is to be an American.
Barbara Jordan was fantastic. I still remember a convention speech she gave, starting in 'evening news' homogenized dialect. She was talking about changes that had been accomplished, Then her voice began to very lightly change. "And this time, *I* am a keh-note speakah."
Goosebumps all over, and I'm crying again while typing this.... Like for the first time, late one night driving country roads, hearing Judy Collins singing "Amazing Grace."
i have a general question about schools and the educational system in the US... in Canada, education is a provincial responsibility, so provincial taxes go to pay for all education. Is it the same in the US? with the states being responsible? and if so, how do you have a national education standard? and if it is a state responsibility, why is it always a national campaign promise to improve the schools?
also, do teachers have to have a teaching degree in the states? or can you have a degree in another discipline and then get a teaching certificate?
The educational system in the U.S. is a mixed bag. For the most part, each of the states is responsible for it's own schools and there is no single national test. The feds then step in to kind of even things out with money for various special ed and poverty programs. It's pretty much a bureaucratic stew.
Harborwoman could probably give you a great more detail as she was a school principal.
Teachers go through a special college course and then take an education exam. There have been some changes of late with people possessing other degrees then taking some education courses and the exam, but I'm not sure of the requirements.
Theoretically a school anywhere in any given state will offer an education similar to every other public school in the state. This never happens. The wealth and resources of a county and the conditions of poverty/crime/multi lingualism etc all alter the ability of the school to provide a quality education.
Alpha, thanks very much for your 7:04-p.m. response. It helped me to better understand what's happening.
I wish I was more comfortable about the whole, broad concept of integration as being (not so) important in bringing the positive American experience to people no matter what their ethnicity.
I hear you saying that separate but _really_ equal is the desired outcome for many people. From my own experience, I want more. There's so much that we can get from one another.
I don't know how fast it takes to get a ad created like the new 3 am phone ads but I wonder if they each have spies in the ad agency to know what the other is creating to be able to produce a counter ad so fast.
At breakfast I came across an interesting report on Obama and Lobbyists. The key points, from the highlights box, are:
"--His Position: Sen Obama has refused to accept donations from federal lobbyists.
--Outside Advisers: Lobbyists give him their advice and volunteer on the Obama campaign.
--Enduring Connection: Business lobbyists are often knowledgeable about complex policy issues and can provide needed expertise to candidates."
Obama Campaign Enlist Lobbyists, Mary Jacoby, page A4, the Wall Street Journal, March 1, 2008
The article really is worth reading, but I think it requires at least a trial subscription to WSJ.com.
When I had "in kind" contributions of services from a business entity, I had to report them by provider, type of service, and the fair market value. That was Florida law.
Interesting pattern, Hillary always seems to go first and Obama follows, right down to the attack ads. Great for him if he can continue that right into the November election.
It is one of those it depends on what "is" is situations. If someone has your phone number and just happens to call you at say "3:00 a.m." and chit chat about some issue you are covering in the next day's vote on a bill, it really isn't a donation or in-kind. Of course a few years down the road if that call includes a stock tip or a real estate deal etc. whose to say it was due to a lobbyist's influence ...
vadaryl - Of course he follows, BHO.. OPPS BO is the ultimate example of a no substance retail scam (in keeping with Craig’s theme) when you have nothing to lead with how can you? Hey what is that game where all the little people blindly follow something without asking questions – but usually to their demise into the fire or off the end of the bridge?
Obama's response to the ad mislead and confused the point.
The mislead part: Implying that commencing hostilities in Iraq would be a 'red phone' type of call. Not so. What would be such a call would be initial reports of hostile actions in a part of the world where U.S. interests could be immediately impacted and that an executive decision as to U.S. reactions might be required immediately.
The confusing the issue part: Making the point that Clinton's vote on the war disqualifies her from making middle-of-the-night executive decisions of the nature I described. Clinton's vote was based on deceptively flawed inputs from the Administration--something that has no relevance to a 'red phone' call.
No Doubt that if BHO,,, Darn it... that if BO wins the Dem side, That clearly JM will be the better choice for America.
Certain anyone can deduce this based on the clear facts presented on this blog alone.
Interesting Poll numbers in Texas, the Independent Undecided numbers are growing. This means these people are taking a 2nd look at this. Take a look atg these poll numbers. The poll they took before that had Obama in the lead the undecided vote was very low. Would be interesting to see there next poll since these numbers are changing by the day. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/docs/InsiderAdvantage_MajorityOpinionTXDemPrimaryPoll-2-28-2008.html
I think what irritates me most is the spinning of what that "war vote" was....she did not vote to invade Iraq. Nor did anybody else. They voted to authorize the POTUS to take military action if diplomatic efforts failed. And when she cast that vote she gave an impassioned speech to that effect. To say "she voted for the war" is just not true.
If bush would not made a mess of the war this vote would not mean a thing. The most improtant thing is what are they going to do about it now until Jan 2009 and what are they going to do about it in the future. We can't change what happened and what decision they made at the time.
If Bush did do his job, what would you of thought of their votes.
LL and Jamie - thanks for the Jimmy Byrnes info - mini history lesson for me this a.m.
Sorry I missed the public school convo last night - looks like it was a pretty good one. I have several friends that teach in the LAUSD and surrounding school districts - some friends who are community college professors as well and the state of our public schools is frightening.
Standardized tests don't test anything and No Child Left Behind should be abolished - burden on teachers and schools across this country and doesn't allow teachers to focus on individual student needs. Fund the schools definitely. But create a situation where the entire school year is spent prepping students on test taking strategies...ridiculous.
Where is Craig today...he's provided us nothing new to nash our teeth about.
Vadaryl,
Another great point, And BO did his great job of confusing the facts when he responded (note to self that he responded not lead again) to JM point on Iraq and AQ.
Man I am so glad that BO is not selling cars in this area.... Maybe GM should hire him to help save the US based auto makers
Ping Pong! Good to "see" you! And OHMYGOD! we do agree on some things....ha!
I've always said that when people wanted Hillary to apologize she should have said, "I apologize that I failed to recognize that George Bush is a lunatic."
What's interesting about that poll Vadaryl is that Obama has lost support but not necessarily to Clinton...it appears they've gone from Obama to undecided...
Perhaps that plays into the "buyers remorse" narrative and in the end they'll break for Clinton.
Fingers crossed.
CTV story still not going away and we've got 3 more days before junior Tuesday. If questions about the "Authenticity of Hope" persist...could be good for HRC.
At the time she made that vote and speech, she represented the state of New York and constituents who had seen those towers fall first hand.
He represented a very liberal, anti war district in the lower chamber of Illinois state government. As soon as he started moving up the food chain in the Illinois Senate , his vote kept getting more conservatively modified until reaching the U.S. Senate when it became identical to all of hers.
More examples of "Me Too" in order to achieve his ambitions.
"ABC News' Jennifer Parker spoke to Goolsbee, a University of Chicago economics professor, Thursday who would not confirm or deny that he had a conversation with Georges Rioux, the Canadian Consulate General in Chicago. Rioux, in meetings this week in Ottawa, would also neither confirm nor deny any conversation took place. Both men did say that they know each other."
No, Ping Pong, We've been in Columbia, SC for the last ten-years. When I retired from the AF, we moved to Florida spending about 15-years there. After both of my parents passed on (they wintered in Sanibel) we left the state. It was simply to crowded where we were and we were ready for a change. There was illness involved as well-the voters were sick of me. (Not my line, don't no whose it is, but it works! Bet someone knows who it belongs to. It deserves attribution!)
Are you aware that Rush Limbaugh is encouraging his listeners to vote for Hillary in the upcoming states? (I don't believe the "spin" he is feeding the ditto-heads, but hope they buy it.) Will not get into what I believe Rush is really up to with this.
"Columbus sailed to the New World some time after 1750, not in 1492."
Dog's eye -- Those kids should have been taught the old line: In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue."
The entire education question is weighing on my mind this morning. I know that earlier Rez said it was off topic for this blog....but I think it's crucial to the country. I don't think any of the candidates have addressed the depth of the problems.
What I have never understood is why you have to limit the curriculum on literature in order to teach a child to read. It seems to me that the more interesting and challenging the material, the more the child is going to want to be able to read it. Then again, I don't remember learning to read
Flatus, I thought maybe you are a doctor as the medical use for your blog name.
Dog - OK now put together the fact that our educated are not that educated (and sad to say if they are it is by liberal PC correct standards) - Then they are voting based on what basis... a formula for BHO... Golly darn it.. I mean BO
Michelle Obama stated that she had no objection to the use of her husband's name that both were proud of it. That it reflected his heritage, world view, and background.
It was the use in a hateful manner to depict him as some sort of "Manchurian Candidate" potential traitor to America that was the problem.
It is only the far right, fear mongers and radio creeps that are trying to sell that swill and passing it around the internet.
Of course, the flashback on it is that it is coming from the Clinton camp which it isn't. I've seen enough of that crud in my mailbox from my wacko acquaintances to recognize the source.
Jamie.. I agree - and as i stated a few days back that I have friends and the US has many friends that this name is of great honor. And working for a global company.... you can imagine the fun we have with names ...
It is so childish and BS - a distraction from finding the real facts - so to that end it is good for BHO as people spend the limited resources discussion on this NON issue then getting the facts on policy.
ALSO - I am sorry but what I did see on the one video where the H word was used was not offensive and only used ONCE. The media and JM created the histeria
If you pick this up later, the radio guy who introduced JM is one of those creeps I mentioned. He was going on and on with added emphais on the "Hussein" part, it was really ugly, then Rush took it up mimicing JM. It was pretty nasty all the way around and the emails circulating with the whole Moslem connotation of the name are even worse.
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Comments
woo?
yep..craig..nomination goes to highest bidder..
Posted by: tylenol
| February 29, 2008 6:15 AM
Good Morning
Craig, Agree with you fair assessment of retail politics.
however, as a member of the "YES WE CAN" supporters. Obama's campaign slogan means much more than getting a bunch of Borg to lock step in a 1984 vision towards our candidate.....the same with Clinton's supporters I suspect.
Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 29, 2008 6:16 AM
Good morning Ty,
I'm off to cook cook cook cook cook cook cook cook....
Everyone have a good day. AND if its not too much to ask, how about more issues.
So tired of reading the same arguements.
Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 29, 2008 6:18 AM
i think i'm channeling McLuhan....maybe..
the argument IS the issue
we've exhausted all the others...
morning, sheila... bring me a croissant on your way back, please?
Posted by: tylenol
| February 29, 2008 6:26 AM
Thanks for the laugh Craig - no demerits there!
Posted by: econsmed
| February 29, 2008 6:35 AM
on Taylor Marsh this morning posted that CTV-s sources reconfirmed the NAFTA story after the embassy spokesman denied
ithttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMpbpov-HcA
Posted by: econsmed
| February 29, 2008 6:48 AM
econ.....does not link........
Posted by: sturgeone | February 29, 2008 7:01 AM
Good video Craig.
Have to admit I will be glad when we get past March 4 so that one way or they other, the political folks have to come up with a new spiel. The current ones are getting mighty boring.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 7:02 AM
Sturgeone,
Had an i at the beginning of the string
thttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMpbpov-HcA
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 7:08 AM
so naturally I got a t in there where it didn't belong
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMpbpov-HcA
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 7:09 AM
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/18721308/mccain_resurrected
Posted by: sturgeone | February 29, 2008 7:18 AM
Matt Taibbi on Macenstein: (excerpt from my link above)
Back in 1999, McCain concluded a speech at Phillips Exeter in New Hampshire by shouting, "Never again do we send our men and women to fight and die in foreign conflicts unless our goal is victory!" Which is interesting, because that is exactly — almost word for motherfucking word — how McCain ended his latest speeches on the campaign trail in Maryland and Virginia. In other words, John McCain knew his answer to the Iraq War mess before it even happened. For good measure, he insisted that "only military men like General Petraeus" have the right to say when soldiers will come home from Iraq — not, he added with a sneer, "some civilian running for president." Nor, presumably, America's civilian population, which is being asked to send its sons and daughters to kill and die in a faraway country.
Posted by: sturgeone | February 29, 2008 7:19 AM
ooops......contains a vulgarissimo which i forgot to scrub.......sorry bout that, but it was Matt what done it......
Posted by: sturgeone | February 29, 2008 7:21 AM
Happy Leap Day! Guess this is the day Obama Girl can officially ask Boraak to marry her.
Sheila - Still looking for details on that slogan. "Can" what? How?
Texans - Are you going to your precint conventions after the polls close to support your candidate?
Craig - Love waking up to video blog.
Posted by: blueINdallas | February 29, 2008 7:32 AM
has the story about the pressure on black super delegates been posted before? Sorry if it's a repeate
www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8762.html
Posted by: econsmed
| February 29, 2008 7:38 AM
good morning gang...
Craig..... great video.....
I've taken more than a few classes on retail sales..... and I employ the tactics that you mentioned used by both Clinton and Obama when I do a crafts fair.....
hey..... they work....
as for March 4th..... I have the same plan I mentioned the other day for March 5th...... hot tubbin'......
my goal this year is to come back from this ski vacation looking like a prune.....
Posted by: RebelliousRenee | February 29, 2008 7:43 AM
Haven't read last night's thread yet, but in case anyone missed this...like the entire world...Nader picked a Veep...not that it matters.
"The Texas-born Gonzalez ran for mayor of San Francisco as a Green Party candidate in 2003 but lost to Democrat Gavin Newsom after a surprisingly close runoff election. Gonzalez has been largely inactive in city politics since then, though he has recently gone after both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, a man he says lacks the ability to bring about real change."
http://www.mercurynews.com/politics/ci_8403735
Posted by: blueINdallas | February 29, 2008 7:57 AM
Good video, Craig, and I hope your Dad enjoyed the Cardinal!
Posted by: Flatus
| February 29, 2008 8:00 AM
I do hope that Ms Clinton gets to stay in this for a little longer so we have more time to shop around. It would be horrible if we lose this opportunity and then have buyer's remorse.
We certainly need more time to get to know Mr. Obama. I think he is still a little too unknown.
Posted by: ct | February 29, 2008 8:03 AM
I think the bi-partisanship of the people here is damaging this blog. You know what I mean! Last night , Dog was the first to post on the thread and she posted "Go Obama!" What happened to the days when people just said "Woo!"? I'm just waiting for the day when McCain supporters come here and get called "McCainiacs!" I remember the slogan that said "I gave up hope and it worked just fine." About Obama and his pledge to meet with certain world leaders without any conditions. Bush obviously feels that would be terribly wrong to do. My guess is that Obama would put his trust in these other world leaders , but Bush doesn't trust some of these world leaders. If we don't trust these other world leaders , then how are they ever gonna become trustworthy? Besides , how may people here actually trust our country's leader? I guess my hangup is that Obama speaks in such a way that he makes everything sound like it would be easy to do. End the war quickly , talk to Raul Castro etc....I just can't see things being as easy as he's making them sound. In closing , I enjoyed the video Craig. How much do you want for the swamp land?
Posted by: Corey
| February 29, 2008 8:05 AM
PS
I have certainly been guilty of buying some, couldn't do without, handy gadgets that didn't do the job and fell apart very fast.
Posted by: ct | February 29, 2008 8:08 AM
Another group of brain cells seem to have gone on vacation. What is the name of that folk group Craig likes so much. I keep tapping on that synapse and it burps up the play title "Speed the Plow" and I know that's wrong. Help.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 8:14 AM
mornin' all.
On MoJo, I see that they were quoting a black superdelegate as saying that black superdelegates are being target with threats, intimidation and charges of being Uncle Toms if they don't commit to casting their vote for Obama. I guess this had to happen. I'm so glad Obama is not viewed as the black candidate and race is not a factor. To be fair, I'm not saying Obama is behind the pressure, although I do recall at least some of the Ombama supporters here claiming Hillary's campaign was behind every move they felt was offensive to Obama that her supporters made in the runup to the primaries, so applying their logic, I guess the Obama campaign must be behind this.
Damn, Mike Smith - Dave Clark 5 lead sinder is dead.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/29/arts/music/29smith.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
And for the morning's economic news - the Dow is down more than 100 and bernanke thinks everything is AOK. I feel so much better knowing that all those gloomy economic reports don't mean the economy is in bad shape.
Posted by: pogo
| February 29, 2008 8:16 AM
Alpha, In your long piece yesterday evening (10:23) in which said us white folk are completely out of touch with the black community and that we just don't get the movement, how about doing this.
_Not_ from what Sen Obama is saying, but from how black people are processing the total message, what _exactly_ does the under-40 cohort believe Obama is going to do when elected? Please be specific.
Is the treatment of the black community going to be different from that of the white community? If so, in what ways?
What happens in integrated communities? If fundamental changes are to be made, does it mean that efforts at integration were wasted effort?
Thanks
Posted by: Flatus
| February 29, 2008 8:17 AM
Blue,
I did the "Leap Day" bit on the blog today with references to both the ancient Roman tradition and a tip of the hat to Al Capp even though he put Sadie Hawkins day in November. At least that produced two fun songs from You Tube
Namely Me and Sadie Sadie Married Lady.
http://jdurward.blogspot.com
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 8:17 AM
Mr.Crawford you are right once again. that were more people your business willing to tell it straight as you do, voters of this country It would be able to make decisions based on what is real.
Posted by: Nivramel
| February 29, 2008 8:19 AM
Well, I have to run do some errands, and have much to do today - may check in briefly later this a.m., but who knows. Renee, good luck on that shrivelling if I don't get a chance to chat before you hit the H2O.
Posted by: pogo
| February 29, 2008 8:21 AM
Thank you Dog's Eye
That's the one.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 8:32 AM
awww..pogo..damn is right.. glad all over is my abfab song of all time...
Posted by: tylenol
| February 29, 2008 8:36 AM
dont forget Del McCoury.....................not a folk group, but still...............
Posted by: sturgeone | February 29, 2008 8:43 AM
Good morning.
Here's a link about the illegal army created by Der Fuhrer Bush and the Canadian Government.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=57228
Do you feel any safer now?
God Bless.
Posted by: anon-paranoid
| February 29, 2008 8:47 AM
CTV Re-confirms Obama NAFTA Story
"When last we convened on this story, the entire traditional media, cable outfits like CNN, and Obama blogs across the spectrum, were all in the tank for Obama. They had collectively pronounced untrue the story CTV had reported about Mr. Obama's campaign aide(s) (senior staff, worker bees or whatever title you want to include so as to incorporate all possible people that could have participated in this story) tipping the Canadian government that Obama's campaign rhetoric on NAFTA was all hot air. Not to worry, Obama's aide(s) said, whatever Obama is saying in Ohio about revisiting NAFTA, it won't apply in his presidency.
Obama's campaign issued a statement declaring "inaccuracies," while Obama himself said during a plane press gaggle (likely the same one referenced below) that the Canadian government had denied it happened. He really meant embassy spokesperson, but let's not quibble on a smoke screen. Meanwhile, the embassy statement declared there was no story. None. Translation: go away you silly media, there's nothing here. Thus, like good little lambs, the media and all those studious Obama bloggers went away. They're so obedient.
NAFTA story, developing... into something that could be a problem for Mr. Obama. Once again, it's about a lot more than NAFTA. It's the measure of the man's character that comes into question. Saying one thing in public to the American people in order to to get vote, then promising a neighboring government something else. It's anything but a new kind of politics."
http://www.taylormarsh.com
Posted by: GORDO | February 29, 2008 8:48 AM
I'm having a ball building my Pandora stations. Got three going now: The Piano Bar for evenings here with wine and conversation once the &(&%%%^)** election is through and one for folk, country, and bluegrass. Once those are done, I'll tackle Rock and Classical stations ... Eclectic R Us.
Suggestions welcome.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 8:51 AM
And speaking of "fun" , they have proposed making next Friday "Hawaiian shirt / Tie Dye shirt" day at work. It's supposed to be something to chase away the winter blues. So I guess people will either be walking around work looking like "party animals" or "Deadheads". By the way , the weather sucks here this morning. Snowing hard here for the past few hours.
Posted by: Corey
| February 29, 2008 8:56 AM
CTV Reconfirms Obama NAFTA Story
"Sources at the highest levels of the Canadian government — who first told CTV that a call was made from the Obama camp — have reconfirmed their position. "
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/29/ctv-reconfirms-obama-nafta-story/
Posted by: GORDO | February 29, 2008 8:59 AM
Sheila wrote: "Obama's campaign slogan means much more than getting a bunch of Borg to lock step in a 1984 vision towards our candidate.....the same with Clinton's supporters I suspect."
Well good thing for Clinton supporters we've got more than a campaign slogan to plop our money down on. And those discriminating buyers on the Clinton side like to look under the hood and kick the tires-we're not easily impressed by a fancy paint job.
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 9:01 AM
Alpha -- Your comments from last night were well-thought and no doubt right, for the most part. But I don't think you can or should be sneering at people like Maxine Waters (to name one) as being out of touch. She is a great voice for education as well as for the black community AND woman.
I do agree that the so-called welfare reform was a very bad piece of legislation. At the time, I emailed every Tennessee rep in the house and senate and asked: "What about child care?"
And yes, I also agree that the Democrats have taken the black vote for granted. Just like Obama and Co. is now taking the baby boomer female vote for granted.
I repeat the question Flatus asked....what do you specifically see that Obama will do for your generation? And if he doesn't do much, how will that affect the young black voter? I know, for example, that my candidate will make women's issues a priority. She will protect women's right to choose, for one thing. Whereas Barack is on record as saying that women have the right to have "some control over their bodies." The word "some" jumped out and smacked me in the face. And I will say that I've started to see younger women show up on feminist blogs saying, "Until this campaign I didn't understand that this is still a VERY sexist society."
However, the basic problem with what you said, and I see this in the women's movement, too. Your generation ignores how and why you caught some breaks.
You wrote: "What you're seeing is a classic case of a generation outlasting their stay. Stale ideas."
Wow. Would you say that to Maxine Waters' or John Lewis' faces? I gotta believe that if she were around, Barbara Jordan would take you to the woodshed for that one.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 9:08 AM
Dog's Eye
My first though on the first read through on Alpha's post made me think "serpent's tooth". An elderly man who had been bullied, bruised, and bloodied so that they could have that integrated life was being shoved out of the way as being unnecessary and told to betray the friendship of a lifetime unless he didn't wait one week to move his one vote.
It's all well and good for Joshua to stand on the shoulders of Moses ... they don't need to stomp him into the ground while they do it.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 9:11 AM
"What you're seeing is a classic case of a generation outlasting their stay. Stale ideas."
This is Obabma's message actually. Now if Obama could only cut the crap and come out and say this , we'd be in for a good news day.
Posted by: McCaina | February 29, 2008 9:16 AM
The press will torment Obama, too
"With Sen. Barack Obama now emerging as the Democratic front-runner, clear signs suggest that his press treatment will soon change and that the media will fall back into their routine of viewing -- and critiquing -- leading Democrats through the eyes of Republican spin.
Just last week, we saw how a single line from a Michelle Obama speech was seized upon by conservative partisans, led by Fox News, to suggest she is not patriotic, and how that attack was given a wider airing in the mainstream press. "
http://mediamatters.org/columns/200802280003?f=h_column
Posted by: GORDO | February 29, 2008 9:28 AM
Yes, dog -- it would be a good time to question what the twins and a LOT of young Repubs are doing during this war. Like Cheney during Vietnam, they all seem to have other priorities. But on cable news at least, whenever that is brought up, the commentators heap scorn on the whole notion.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 9:28 AM
dog's eye
It was more Alpha's comment on it that upset me. That kicked to the curb, out of the way old dog. One more week would have killed them?
You are right that the Democratic party took the black vote for granted and gave darn little other than an open door they could try to make the most of in exchange for that support. I just think they could have found a better young hero to follow to the Promised Land, though I have to admit he is good at promising.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 9:30 AM
Speaking of race relations , a woman I am friends with at work has an ex-brother-in-law who is the lead singer and guitarist in a blues band. He is white. The other two guys in his band are black. Last year , they played in a bluesfest show in the Muskegon , Mi. area. One of the black men in the band invited his black friends from work to come see their show. For the next week after their show this black man's friends did not want to speak with him at all. Why? Because he had a white guy in his band.
Posted by: Corey
| February 29, 2008 9:31 AM
Hey guys,
I'm just now getting up on the West Coast and have a kid to get ready for school. I'll answer your questions in a couple of hours.
Posted by: alpha1906
| February 29, 2008 9:33 AM
"Nah. She'd be too busy out campaigning for Obama. "
dog's -- She might well be on his team. Or not. And which ever candidate she backed, whoa-be-unto the fool who tried to mug her for it. One thing though, I'd put money down that Barbara Jordan would have demanded time on Matthews or one of the shows that were so blatently sexist to have her say. And if you get chills listening to Obama....you should have heard Barbara.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 9:50 AM
Ya know, it is what it is. I don't begrudge the Obama supporters for pressuring the superdelegates they think they can in order to make sure the messiah is nominated - and as I've said in the past I'll vote for him if he's the nominee - actually, it will be a grudging vote against McCain, but the effect is the same. I do begrudge the Obama camp for not acknowledging that their supporters have turned to playing the race card (and I HATE that expression, but it does convey what I think I see happening.)
But do I blame then for playing it? No I don't. Loyalty to old friends who have worked on your behalf in the past may not move whatever you perceive as your agenda, whether it be to stay in office or to advance policies that benefit you or whatever, and this is, after all, politics. I'm sure that many blacks see Obama as having more interest in addressing problems that affect many of the disadvantaged in their ethnic group - although I haven't heard that articulated and haven't heard how he plans to do that - and if so,they should support Obama and put pressure on their representatives to vote for him in their superdeegate role. Of course a line is drawn through this process, and it is a line that may come back as providing the ability for Obama to gain thenomination, and perhaps even the office, but may prevent him from being able to gather sufficient support for his agenda togovern effectrively. Then again, it may not.
But I have to say that it is discouraging to hear the same rhetoric I heard in the 60s and 70s about black leaders betraying their people and being Uncle Toms if they don't vote for Obama no matter what their own beliefs may be, but I guess we haven't gotten past the racial divides that have existed since the days of reconstruction, and it is deeply disappointing to see that. But maybe this is just paleo racial politics since I obviously don't get it, as Alpha has pointed out.
Posted by: pogo
| February 29, 2008 9:53 AM
Thanks, Craig. Obama has perpetuated one of the biggest frauds in election history and the media aren't paying attention.
Hillary's campaign has definitely made mistakes and has not been nimble enough but the media has never concentrated on the beef--for most of them (MSM and so-called progressive blogs) it's been a Hillary-bashing, Obama-worshipping dog fight and the American people haven't figured it out.
Posted by: bayareavoter
| February 29, 2008 9:54 AM
Here's part of the story on the link I posted above.
North American Army created without OK by Congress
U.S., Canada military ink deal to fight domestic emergencies
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: February 24, 2008
1:45 pm Eastern
By Jerome R. Corsi
© 2008 WorldNetDaily
In a ceremony that received virtually no attention in the American media, the United States and Canada signed a military agreement Feb. 14 allowing the armed forces from one nation to support the armed forces of the other nation during a domestic civil emergency, even one that does not involve a cross-border crisis.
If you missed the link here it is again.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=57228
If you think NAFTA is bad than what do you think about having Canadian Troops on our streets if the American Citizens rise up against our Government when Martial Law is enacted?
Could they be used if Der Fuhrer starts another war before the elections in November? Would you be willing to submit to foreign troops on our soil shooting American Citizens who will be labeled Enemy Combatants by Der Fuhrer Bush under the MCA of 2006 if we resist Martial Law?
You all better start thinking about this because it is a very real possibility this can occur.
God Bless.
Posted by: anon-paranoid
| February 29, 2008 10:02 AM
pogo....
great post! what I see with this election process so far is classic human nature....
humans tend to gather round their own kind.... or tribe.... and yeah.... because of all our modern toys we think we've outgrown it..... but not so....
and no..... the younger generation will not change it either..... unless of course.... they aren't human..... ;)
well..... I'm off to my book club..... and off to packing for a much needed vacation....
Rick will be bringing along his laptop..... so I might surface a bit..... but then again.... I might just take a break from the machine.....
Take Care Everyone!
Posted by: RebelliousRenee | February 29, 2008 10:12 AM
Just to keep you informed: The Right Wing has not given up on the Larry Sinclair story. It does appear that the polygraph exam was a set-up designed to discredit Sinclair --- very suspicious details. (There may have been a $750,000 payoff to WhiteHouse.com).
Posted by: GORDO | February 29, 2008 10:20 AM
About race relations - I know zero African Americans. I did not avoid them, I just have never had an opportunity to develop a friendship with anyone of that race. I have lived all over this country, I have met almost every other race and religion. So I have no first hand knowledge of anything about being black in America in 2008.
It is really interesting to watch all these racial issues being discussed.
Posted by: McCaina | February 29, 2008 10:25 AM
Patsi- Your comment about Barbara Jordan clicked into my memory banks:
And if you get chills listening to Obama....you should have heard Barbara.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 9:50 AM
So right you are! I could almost hear her eloquent remarks delivered in her very distinct , melodic voice at the Nixon impeachment hearings as if it just occurred.
Thanks for bringing her up, lest we forget those who came before & fought to open doors for many others.
I'd like to believe that she would stand with Hillary today.
Posted by: Coreen | February 29, 2008 10:28 AM
I did ask a question about that Ohio brochure put out by Senator Obama's campaign, but didn't receive an answer. It said there was a picture of him with his father with the caption about his parent's influence on his life. My question was father or stepfather. If it was his father rather than stepfather, then that is more of the bait and switch tactics that disturb me.
I'm looking forward to the conversation with Alpha simply because we will definitely be talking from two different generational viewpoints and she's on the west coast. If she's California, then there will be a whole lot of interesting perspective going on.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 10:31 AM
Oops ... gender bias: child to get off to school (daddy's do that sort of thing too) :-)
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 10:38 AM
jamie, they (we) sure do. :-)
Posted by: pogo
| February 29, 2008 10:42 AM
Oh this is funny. Maybe he should have stopped by here for a real taste of the action.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/dot.comments/2008/02/are_we_there_yet.html?hpid=topnews
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 10:49 AM
All right,
I have a bit of time, so let me try to consolidate some of the questions asked. Please excuse any spelling or grammatical errors.
Patsi et. al.,
The CBC members falling out of favor because of a disconnect with their voters is nothing unique to African American politics. It happens everywhere. But with black Congressional leaders, it's just a bit more stark when it happens.
When speaking about Maxine Waters, of all CBC members, I know her the best. For most of my life, she was my Congressional representative. And like most CBC reps, her focus is around traditional CBC issues (social services in her district) and national issues. That's fine and that's important. But when you've been unchallenged for your seat for decades, you tend to think that the ideas that may have been important when you were first elected, are still the same important issues five or six terms later.
So these CBC members don't recognize the issues when college educated African Americans who grew up in their districts, decide to come back and buy homes. What are those issues? Well, many of them are purchasing risky sub prime loans as a pathway to the middle class. Now a CBC member on the ball would recognize that hey, "maybe we should really, really make sure that we have oversight so that if things go belly up, our neighborhoods won't be devastated."
Instead, this is what happened:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/banking/2007-04-17-subprime-usat_N.htm
That gets the attention of young African American voters. They then take a look around their neighborhoods and begin asking questions. Why is their representative against vouchers, particularly when they are spending money to send their child to parochial schools because their neighborhood public schools have been and always will be crappy? Their representative may be tied to the teachers union because they need to get re-elected, but the African American voter says they're not willing to sacrifice their child's one time education for a CBC's re-election.
These African American voters then begin looking at food deserts (places where fresh fruits and vegetables are almost non existent) and begin wondering why their CBC rep hasn't fought for funds to create urban farmers markets? This black voter pays attention to things like the latest ag bill which allocated $30 mill for urban gardens. Did your CBC rep take part? Did they even recognize the problem?
So when you have year after year of CBC members not concentrating on the issues of TODAY rather than living off the works of YESTERDAY, then you get challenged. And if anyone has any doubt that these African American voters will look all of these CBC members dead in the eye and tell them that, including Waters, Lewis and yes, the late Barbara Jordan, then they missed what happened during this primary.
If this was a decade ago, Hillary would have picked all of the right CBC members to influence. But guess what? This year, those same CBC members not only were rejected but received enough blow back that they started having to answer for their own performance. Some CBC members recognized that early, like Rep. Clyburn. Others, like Charles Rangel, were and are tone deaf.
So the Civil Rights era CBC membership is about to be challenged and then passed. You'll start seeing more Duval Patricks, Cory Bookers, Barack Obamas, running for office. Funny, but you should start looking at this as moving beyond racial identity politics to something more complex. These new representatives will have forward ideas that are more geared toward issues that affect all Americans.
I've gotta run, but I'll post more later.
Posted by: alpha1906
| February 29, 2008 10:50 AM
" the Larry Sinclair story."
Gordo, give it up. That story is so bogus that only people who are too stupid to find their polling place will believe it.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 10:52 AM
Most definitely a HE.
Posted by: alpha1906
| February 29, 2008 10:53 AM
Good Morning, Craig
Very creative video especially on a Friday leap year day that won't exist next year. Now I understand why elections are held during leap years (I think there might be an exception to this...not understanding all celestial/calendar mathematics), one more day of politicking!
And where did you find that "pimpish" dude on Scam #3...David Shuster files?
Thanks for the smile.
Posted by: Blonde wino
| February 29, 2008 10:55 AM
"'African-American superdelegates are being targeted, harassed and threatened,' said Rep. Emanuel Cleaver II (D-Mo.)...'nasty letters, phone calls, threats they’ll get an opponent, being called an Uncle Tom.'"
A little follow-up to last nights discussion. Listening to POTUS08 and other programs this morning...it really angers me that they don't talk more about this or give voice to this. Someone said MSNBC did this morning...I missed that part and only saw the very end where Clayburn said they weren't being threatened...of course...he's a guilty party so of course he would say that.
"Rep. Diane E. Watson (D-Calif.), a black lawmaker and Clinton backer, said the intense lobbying for Obama would not alter her vote...'I’ve gotten threatening mail,' Watson said. ..But I don’t intimidate. I can hold the ground. … I would lose my seat over my principles.'"
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8762.html
Enjoy...
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 10:56 AM
One last thing before I hit the road. Jamie, you should get out of the thought process that these African American voters are looking for some sort of Messiah to lead them out of the desert. This idea that we're constantly on the lookout for the next MLK (or as Africans call it, The Big Chief Syndrome) is wrong.
In fact, one of the lessons this generation of younger African Americans learned is that there is no one leader and we don't need a Moses. So Barack isn't looked at in that way. He IS looked at as a representative of themselves: Educated, intelligent, on equal terms (or better) with white opponents, and very secure with who he is. In other words, the values the Civil Rights movement was supposed to create in an African American.
Posted by: alpha1906
| February 29, 2008 11:04 AM
Dog posted: "latest Pew poll shows both Dem candidates beating McCain. Hillary Clinton is stronger among self-identified Democrats (89% vs 81%)"
This is great news - another reason people have been pointing to why Obama should be the candidate...electability has now also been dispelled.
He's not going to bring change to Washington because he's proven that he participates in old school dirty politics like the rest of them. So change is no longer a criteria.
He's not the only DEM leading over McCain in a general election. So electability is off the table.
So what other criteria do we have?
Oh...who is best prepared and has a detailed plan to move us forward out of the mess we're in...that would be Hillary. So obviously Hillary should be the democratic nominee.
:-D
I'm so glad we had this chat.
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 11:09 AM
Alpha --- Walk soft around the memory of Barbara Jordan....we ALL owe her a lot.
"It is reason and not passion which must guide our deliberations, guide our debate, and guide our decision."
Barbara Jordan, testimony before the House Judiciary Committee, July 25, 1974.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 11:09 AM
alpha, between work,errands and hosting band practice for Li'l Pogo's band, I'm going to be in & out today and may miss you while you're on, but want to let you know that I appreciate your perspective and the thoughtfulness of your posts. You bring a perspective that in this transformational political season we aging boomers definitely need. Oh, and welcome to the daddy get the kid ready and to school club. I'm not much of a joiner, but that's one club I'm happy to have become a member of.
And mornin' Wendy! That was me that caught the Cleaver discussion on mojo and brought it up.
Posted by: pogo
| February 29, 2008 11:09 AM
Having read Alter's 'Between the Lines,' I really didn't get his reasoning (I saw you had a reference to it on your video). If HRC, was more behind in delegates, I would see his point. I mean the same case could be made for BHO to step aside...it is that close. The media is playing-up 11 straight losses and ignoring California. I sure remember hearing that February would most likely be a 'winless" month for Hillary back in January. If the dem nomination were a "winner take all" primary/caucus like the repugs, I could see this. It will be interesting to see the results after March 4th. It isn't over yet, eventhough the media wants us to believe that. Maybe hate is stronger than love in the media. There is a fine line between hate and love and they are not opposites. The opposite of love/hate is apathy.
Posted by: Blonde wino
| February 29, 2008 11:13 AM
Patsi -----------------------
Do you follow the Right Wing? They are very good at Attack/Smear. I don't have all that much confidence in the voting public. After all, many have fallen for this Obama nonsense.
Posted by: GORDO | February 29, 2008 11:20 AM
Hey pogo - need to find the clip...
Scott Walterman on POTUS08 didn't even bring it up - put this - change is in the air spin on it w/o getting to the heart of what was really going on - threats and intimidation wrapped up with a pretty bow of change.
That said...I actually do appreciate alpha's POV on the issue of young black voters and think the last part of his post regarding young black voters not looking for a Moses was very interesting.
From what I've seen...it's the young white voters that need a Moses...so alpha may be right that the younger black voters are looking at things from a far more practical and progressive lens.
It's an interesting discussion.
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 11:21 AM
http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/why-im-afraid-of-the-clintons/index.html
Another link for Craig on Republican logic. And the fact more Democrats have voted for Clinton so far adds to the picture.
Obama would like Democrats to believe that come November, those Republicans and Independents will vote blue over McCain. With new sanctions on Iran, warships off Lebanon, blood in Darfur, violence in Gaza, moderates in Pakistan signing deals with militants, Canadians rejecting NAFTA blasts, Chavez threatening neighbors, NATO limp in Afghanistan, McCain won't be looking so feeble. Add that to the media starting to examining the Obama stories and Democrats might be stunned over their candidate.
Or maybe we all will just believe.
Glad to see I was not the only one with long posts...LOL
Posted by: Maxtrue | February 29, 2008 11:26 AM
Alpha,
Those are all interesting issues and since I know the city well, I can particularly understand the importance of the housing and access to quality stores within the area.
You may find it interesting that in 1944 my parents lived in Leimert Park. At the time it was middle class white but transitioned over to black by the 50s. I last visited the neighborhood in 1961, but at least got to see the beginnings of the art and jazz scene there. At the time I lived in Westchester which was a white area. That school has now become part of a multi racial middle class area. My father graduated from Fremont High School in 1934 and I attended school there during 1959. Again a story of transition from white to black with the generational shift as the school had become about 90% black and 10% mexican with whatever smidge of a percentage that could be carved off was me.
The whole point being that for a variety of reasons, I've always taken a multiplicity of racial influences for granted and in some ways deplore while understanding the almost harsh aura that the younger AA generation displays.
In thinking about this, I did a little surfing. You might find this web page dedicated to Leimert Park interesting. http://leimertpark.ning.com/
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 11:27 AM
Oh all this talk about Hillary getting out of the race is being generated by the Obama campaign because their run is now coming to an end. Hillary is expected to win far more races than he in the coming up primaries and so going into the convention she'll look more like the frontrunner than he and the Obama camp is starting to worry. It's all about who is winning going into the convention.
Thought Clyburn's comments were very interesting this morning on MSNBC. He said superDs should not take 2nd place person and put them into first no matter who it is...UNLESS...when they get to the door of the convention whomever was in first place was not..."panning out"...
What does that mean? If you ask me it was a Wilhelm like statement just more eloquently put.
Just say it people. If Barack is in 2nd place in pledged and/or popular vote...the superDs are welcome to put him over the top because they think he's more electable. But if Hillary is in 2nd place they ARE NOT allowed to put her over the top because they think she is better prepared to be President.
Now that would be some straight talk express.
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 11:29 AM
Maxtrue
I also believe that the repugs dogs will tear BHO to pieces in November. Hillary is a bit tougher meat, but seemingly poisonous to the media. But, I believe she would survive much better in November. I know I have the repeating disease, but the only hope would be a dream team for the dems. And no one has really suggested a good "healer" for August. A Blue "Heeler", perhaps? They sure a great dogs.
Posted by: Blonde wino
| February 29, 2008 11:31 AM
In hunting around for bits of my past for Alpha, I'm finding all sorts of interesting stuff. Young, activist, Obama supporter covering Diane Watson's support of Clinton with video and audio and article about other CBC members and their votes.
http://jasmynecannick.typepad.com/jasmynecannickcom/2008/02/audio-rep-diane.html
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 11:37 AM
" After all, many have fallen for this Obama nonsense."
Gordo....we are all well aware of the right wing smear machine that got by with calling Max Cleland a coward. But the is NO REASON to bombard this crowd with all that crap. There are legitimate issues to discuss, but all you seem to do is go on-and-on-and-on about the potential smears.
I asked you once before: Shall we start up the Hillary is a lesbian who killed her loved Vince Foster talk?
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 11:38 AM
That would be "lover"....
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 11:39 AM
Wendy: "From what I've seen...it's the young white voters that need a Moses...so alpha may be right that the younger black voters are looking at things from a far more practical and progressive lens.
It's an interesting discussion."
Indeed it is. And I think you are right about the anglos somehow needing a messiah more than the younger blacks.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 11:41 AM
Stephanie Tubbs Jones:
"I'm not going to allow people to run me out of my support for my candidate. I don't think anybody wants the kind of supporter that would run away when times are tough. Times are tough but I'm with her."
Love that.
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 11:42 AM
Wendy...I agree with you, but the media is really trying to push BHO over HRC. It is on every cable channel that it is over for HRC. Alter in his Newsweek opine whine 'Hillary Should Get Out Now,' states "But, to withdraw this week would be the best thing imainable for Hillary's political career. She won't, of course, and for reasons that help explain why she's in so much trouble in the first place." What sort of double speak is that?
Posted by: Blonde wino
| February 29, 2008 11:42 AM
Ya know...I really like Tubss Jones...she should run for President!
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 11:45 AM
Alpha,
" thought process that these African American voters are looking for some sort of Messiah"
That was a reference back to the Obama speech where he likened himself to a Joshuah preoceeding from the "Moses" generation of MLK. I'm not saying that all of the younger generation think that way, but rather that a lot of his supporters are seeing the picture he is painting of them and himself.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 11:47 AM
Gordo, You may have noticed that we tend to converse from message to message. Sometimes we CONVERSE, but tht usually tapers off eventually. What we don't do is just dump and run with some article or constantly hit on the same story over and over ... well except when we are CONVERSING.
You might try just talking instead of proclaiming.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 11:53 AM
Okay, I'm back.
Jamie, thanks for the Leimert Park link. This was one of the first areas integrated by African Americans post World War II. As you may know, until the William Byron Rumford Act, many African Americans were restricted from living in certain Los Angeles neighborhoods because of race clauses. Former mayor Tom Bradley moved to Leimert Park as one of the first blacks there.
My parents graduated from Manual Arts and Washington High respectively in 1965, so they're boomers too. Much of central Los Angeles was transforming from white/Japanese (particularly in Leimert Park) to black. In 1972, we moved to Inglewood where we were one of the first black families on the block.
I mention this because it's important to understand that black Gen Xers and millennials are solidly middle class compared to previous generations. Around 70% of African Americans consider themselves to be in the middle class. So opportunities were presented and taken. And that affects the mindset.
I actually graduated from Loyola High School, the oldest high school in Los Angeles. We're also recognized as one of the best academic schools in California. That Jesuit experience shapes how I look at issues in my community. And one quick note: I think we have to get more sophisticated about how we look at race and culture.
I noted before that younger African American voters aren't particularly interested in racial politics, but black politicians who meet the needs of all Americans. Because our needs are the needs of all Americans.
HOWEVER, because we are so afraid of race, we tend to negate the importance of African American culture. Like any other culture, African Americans bond around things that tie them together. Whether we live on the same block, go to the same church, are related or not related, live in the suburbs/inner city, we see ourselves as being part of one community and one culture. It is our strength and what has allowed us to beat slavery, beat Jim Crow and beat the new strategies of our enemies. That said, there's always been a diversity of thought in our culture. WEB DuBois was polar opposite of Booker T. Washington. MLK and Malcolm X were sometimes opposed. And I could go on ad nauseum. But at the end of the day, we remain a community. And that's why it's important that our representatives be very in touch with the community needs. If you're not, you can find yourself looked upon as either malicious outlyer (Ward Connerly, Condi Rice) who works actively against the needs of the community, or irrelevant. The CBC members are fighting to remain relevant.
Posted by: alpha1906
| February 29, 2008 11:53 AM
Wendy!
I believe that every black CBC Clinton supporter has the right to support whomever they want. What I don't believe is that they should complain because they get flack from their constituents. Hey, I'd say that for anyone supporting Obama against the wishes of their voters. If you make a choice, then by all means, stick with it. But don't be shocked when someone may mobilize against you. That's democracy.
Posted by: alpha1906
| February 29, 2008 11:58 AM
Patsi ----------------------
The public has already heard that stuff about Hillary. Obama is an unknown - he will be defined by the Right Wing. Many of his supporters will be disappointed and drop off. Yesterday, I heard a reporter ask a young white man why he was for Obama. The answer, " uh uh uh uh CHANGE!". That's a soft voter-would he be for Obama in Nov?
Posted by: GORDO | February 29, 2008 12:06 PM
Did anyone notice that in yesterday's often-aired clip, Senator Clinton, referring to Senator Obama, criticized him for "toutin' " his credentials and "runnin' " for office instead of holding committee meetings? Is her Texas strategy to emulate Mr. Bush, dropping each g to sound as down-home friendly as he does?
Also, Craig, you questioned Senator Obama's position on NAFTA. Just because we "present a friendlier face to the world" (which you pointed out was one of Senator Obama's objectives), that doesn't mean that we can't negotiate, does it? It is Mr. Bush who sees friendliness and negotiation as mutually exclusive terms, but they really don't have to be.
Posted by: benjaminblue | February 29, 2008 12:08 PM
Alpha 1906
It has been ages since I've thought about Loyola HS. You were very fortunate to attend such a remarkable school. Is the kid you were getting off to school a boy or girl? Are we looking at a possible second generation attendee?
You do say something that disturbs me a bit: "HOWEVER, because we are so afraid of race, we tend to negate the importance of African American culture."
Maybe just a bit ahead of my time or the rather weird upbringing, but it's never been a fear of any kind for me. At the same time I recognize and respect that groups of similar heritage share a zeitgeist that others without that background can only learn and appreciate in part. Still it has always been true that there is a commonality of needs and desires to all no matter who or what they are and I think if we can expand from that commonality, then the racial aspect will become something that we visit and enjoy by choice.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 12:10 PM
I have a race-related California story that shows how bizarre this country can get.
My dad hitched his way from Kansas to California during the Dust Bowl. He took a look around the fruit picking business and opted to go for oil wildcatting with a small company around Pomona. My folks and four older sisters stayed until World War II was almost over. My oldest sister was a junior high cheerleader in Pomona, and one day my parents received a letter to come to the school about a "problem."
The problem was, a bunch of parents had got together a petition against "that Jap on the cheer squad."
Dad stopped at the school the next morning and when he walked in, the principal said, "Oh! Is your wife Japanese?"
"No," he answered.
"Well, maybe your daughter just looks foreign because you're a Mexican," the principal answered.
My father was fairly dark skinned, with very black hair. But his heritage was French and Welsh. He never did correct them, though.
In Denver a lot of people thought my kids were Chicanos, especially because we were close to Corky Gonzales' crowd. And when we moved to TN, even the black assistant principal at my daughter's high school thought she was a light-skinned black. Tracy never corrected her until during her senior year when the woman gave her some minority scholarship forms to fill out.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 12:13 PM
"If you make a choice, then by all means, stick with it. But don't be shocked when someone may mobilize against you. That's democracy. "
Awhile back there was a great deal of discussion about how should these Super Delegates vote: With their conscience or with their delegates. If the choice is "with their delegates" then a Ted Kennedy should be voting for Hillary Clinton. If with his conscience, then the vote goes to Sentor Obama. I think you have a what is good for the goose situation. If members of the CBC go against their consituents, then there is no problem with other legislators going against the will of theirs, but if the pressure is to vote with your constituents or else, then that must be true of all.
Cherrypicking among the "I get this one because of their voters and I get this one because he/she supports me" just doesn't fly.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 12:16 PM
Alpha: agreed about the you may get mobilized against for who you support...I admire Maxine Waters for saying she'd rather lose her seat. I also admire Tubbs Jones for having the guts to stick it out as well and not fold to the pressure. Yes, it's politics, but it shows that these women will stand on principal rather than fold to political pressure - that's what we need in Washington...not a vague notion of Obama change...but these kind of women that will stand up to political pressure...especially political pressure from the boys club. I need to do more research on Tubbs Jones - I really like her style and exuberance.
Also...I grew up in North Long Beach sounds like around the same time you were in Inglewood so we were neighbors.
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 12:19 PM
CTV Names Obama Aide on NAFTA
"Now no one is surprised to have Mr. Goolsbee possibly talking to Canada. Trying to hide that fact once the story is out is another matter. However, the problem really comes in when Obama is obviously telling Ohio voters one thing to get their votes, while his econ guy is assuring a NAFTA partner that nothing is going to change if he gets into the White House."
http://taylormarsh.com/
Posted by: GORDO | February 29, 2008 12:22 PM
Patsi,
That is a funny story. My father is a dark hair, dark complected Scot so I had the olive complextion from that side and then the rather reddish hair from my mother as well as high cheekbones courtesy of some indian in the family. People both in the state and in Mexico would come up and start chattering away in Spanish and unfortunately get a rather blank stare in return until I could get them to slow down enough for my limited vocabulary to handle.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 12:23 PM
Jamie -- "People both in the state and in Mexico would come up and start chattering away in Spanish "
Ha! The wait staff in Mexican restaurants always start speaking Spanish to my kids, as well.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 12:34 PM
If I recall my first primary convention for Bill, we were in lockdown until they drove our ballots to Denton county HQ. I remember it being kind of a long night anyway; seems like I was there for a couple of hours.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080229/ap_on_el_pr/texas_caucus_challenge
So, HRC, do I bother to show up or not?
Posted by: blueINdallas | February 29, 2008 12:37 PM
Wendy,
It may be true what dog posted.
{Dog posted: "latest Pew poll shows both Dem candidates beating McCain. Hillary Clinton is stronger among self-identified Democrats (89% vs 81%)"
This is great news - another reason people have been pointing to why Obama should be the candidate...electability has now also been dispelled.}
However without Independents and even some Republicans crossing the line to vote Democratic in the election a Democrat can not win.
Just a thought.
God Bless.
Posted by: anon-paranoid
| February 29, 2008 12:39 PM
Here's the other straw. Read the banner.
"Report: Clinton camp threatened to sue over Texas caucuse"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/politics/
Now read the article
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/16/texas-primary-latest-new_n_86930.html
Democratic sources said both campaigns have made it clear that they might consider legal options over the complicated delegate selection process, which includes both a popular vote and evening caucuses. But the sources made it clear that the Clinton campaign in particular had warned of an impending lawsuit.
"Both campaigns have made it clear that they would go there if they had to, but I think the imminent threat is coming from one campaign,'' said one top Democratic official, referring to the Clinton campaign. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity.
Both camps threatened to sue - one anonymous "top" Democratic official said he/she thought the Clinton camp really threatened, so the banner is the Clinton camp threatened to sue. That's it - Arianna can push her candidate, but not at me.
Posted by: pogo
| February 29, 2008 12:44 PM
Oops, the second post went out first.
Well, after 2 years of using HuffPo as a major source for political news, I have to look for someplace else. Two straws today have broken the camel's back. Here's a column HP carried 2 weeks ago about Hillary's opposition to NAFTA - note the sources in the story.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/14/did-hillary-clinton-reall_n_86674.html
Here's the piece they are carrying today.
http://www.buckeyestateblog.com/93_nafta_congressional_opponent_she_never_offered_criticism
Two opposing views from different viewpoints - the insiders whose job it was to promote their boss' agenda and one of the preeminent reporters with access to those folks said she opposed it, the outsiders who opposed it and didn't hear her speak out publicly against her husband's new presidency (what first lady has ever publicly challenged her husband's agenda?) say she didn't. Huffpo of course sides with the outsiders and banners the article today as a conclusion.
To avoid multilink prison, I'll post the other straw separately.
I just can't take a progressive political news source that I once respected pushing bias for one progressive candidate over the other - back to the Times, the Post and RealClearPolitics, I suppose.
Posted by: pogo
| February 29, 2008 12:45 PM
Well, well. B'rye answers to HRC. Come to think of it, I've never seen the two of you in the same place.
Posted by: blueINdallas | February 29, 2008 12:46 PM
benjamin, with all due respect, callin' Clinton out on morphing her accent is a bit disingenuous for a supporter of the preacher isn't it?
Posted by: pogo
| February 29, 2008 12:48 PM
AP:
Did you look at the poll - Hillary and Obama are within a few points of each other on the Indie vote as well as the Republican vote (which for vote would not even be worth talking about as criteria - 8 and 5 percent)...so I stand by my electability not worth waisting a vote on Obama argument.
:-D
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 12:52 PM
Wow - Obama campaign threatening legal action over TX...that's so slimy
;-)
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 12:54 PM
Pogo: 12:48 post
chuckled out loud...
hehehehe.
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 12:56 PM
The head of the Democratic party here in Washington is getting a rather large earful about the caucus system as well. These states simply were and are not ready for the Obama caucus machine and the Clinton camp got blindsided by it and are just now trying to figure out a way to fight back.
The sheer size of the turnout as well as the coordinated transportation of large groups was an aspect that these for the most part, pleasant evening out with like minded friends, has turned into a high pressure juggernaut. There is an intimidation factor involved in having your decision overwhelmed by a much larger opposition group and when that group (See Alpha1906 above about fear and cultures) is of another race it becomes even more intimidating. I know there was one very forceful lady in Washington pushing in our precinct and I was lucky to hang on to the small crew of Clintons I was able to corral until we reached a respectful, laugh filled understanding that poaching on either side was not a good thing and just sat down to count and add up the numbers together.
It was probably always a method waiting to be exploited, but Senator Obama did it in this election and it cost Senator Clinton all those caucuses. This will be the wave of the future now and I can see a whole lot of states moving to the primary system simply because it exposed a way for a movement to potentially erase the democratic will of the majority of the people.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 12:57 PM
Dog it is interesting that you would make such a comment to me. I've never had a problem with you. I have both agreed and disagreed with you and have never made a disparaging remark about you or to you.
That said, it surprises me that you would call me out for being strident when there are clearly far more STRIDENT people posting on the comments section of this blog than me. I don't recall you saying to any of the Obama supporters that they are "particularly strident" even though some clearly are far more strident than myself.
I would also never make a comment about that to someone - whether I think they are or not - they are entitled to their energy - if I'm offended or off put by someone that comments here - I simply skip it.
I usually don't respond to personal attacks as I usually choose to just...consider the source. You have never been a "consider the source" person for me...so...well...I guess...well it hurt my feelings...but I'll try to go on.
:-D
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 1:07 PM
dog -- I realize that indies and Reagan voters are now running the Democratic party, but do we now have to read that slimy conservative queen Andrew Sullivan?
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 1:18 PM
Ok - so as not to be too STRIDENT
I have to admit...the new BO ad is better than the new Hillary ad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag8gOXZulXg
v.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M70emIFxETs
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 1:19 PM
"That said, it surprises me that you would call me out for being strident when there are clearly far more STRIDENT people posting on the comments section of this blog than me."
I resemble that! Ha -- Wendy, you aren't strident....you just haven't perfected the art of passive aggressive posting.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 1:21 PM
Wow...if only our biggest problem were a whether gays could get married...it would make this process so much easier.
As to the gay marriage issue...they have the same stance and frankly...BO stance on gay issues is far murkier than Hillary's so if it's gay issues...I'd personally be more worried about him.
Now can we solve bigger problems.
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 1:22 PM
Nope, not a homophobe....just a queen-o-phobe....and on the feminist side, a queen-bee-o-phobe.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 1:23 PM
Pogo
That's all they got . . . inspiration and buses . . . so that's how they must frame their argument.
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 1:25 PM
Please, pray tell, show me where Hillary Clinton has said anything in support of the DOMA.
Posted by: pogo
| February 29, 2008 1:27 PM
I can see how you would think Hillary takes a negative view of gays.
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/lgbt/
Posted by: pogo
| February 29, 2008 1:32 PM
"However, the Obama camp did not respond to repeated questions from CTV on reports that a conversation on this matter was held between Obama's senior economic adviser -- Austan Goolsbee -- and the Canadian Consulate General in Chicago."
Oops...CTV is naming names...
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080228/turkey_Gates_080228/20080228?hub=TopStories
Looks like CTV not going down w/o a fight
:-D
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 1:35 PM
The nice thing about the Clinton ad is that at least she gets to pretend she is President for a few moments.
Now the real question is - is that Raul Castro on the other end of the line...or some waitress Bill met a few days ago making a booty call?
Posted by: warren | February 29, 2008 1:38 PM
I don't give a rat's ass what Bill said about DOMA - you can't point to a single statement of Hillary's supporting it then or now and you're still doing the same dishonest Billary conflation.
Posted by: pogo
| February 29, 2008 1:41 PM
Warren...shouldn't you be at the gym?
:-D
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 1:41 PM
Too hung over today. But I will take Lucy for a walk later to get some exercise...
Posted by: warren | February 29, 2008 1:42 PM
Actually maybe I can make it to the gym today. It would probably be easier that responding to Wendy's arguments why she still thinks Hillary can and should pull it off.
Some of those arguments are so far-removed from reality - I feel like I am watching an episode of Lost...
Posted by: warren | February 29, 2008 1:46 PM
Warren - Lucy - I assume doggy - what kind?
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 1:48 PM
Things are not looking good in the "fire wall" states:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080229/pl_nm/usa_politics_poll_dc
What will be Wolfson's argument on Mar. 5. We were so close in TX and OH - that it is kinda like we won. Plus - give us a break - we did pretty good considering that the Obama campaign has more money, is better organized and has the better candidate. So we feel last night was a great victory for Hillary.
Posted by: warren | February 29, 2008 1:51 PM
Dog - not true - just the best candidate left in the race...
You can look back at my posts that say that there are other candidates I'd happily vote for and tickets that don't include Hillary I'd vote for...so NO not Hillary at all cost...she's just the best one left in my view...and I'm just making my point...in doing so...I attempt to dispel what I believe is the Obama myth.
Obama supporters put out all their pro Obama and anti Hillary links...I'm just doing the same - fair and balanced.
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 1:52 PM
Here ya go Wendy - here is a bit about the famous Lucy - a 20 pound cocker spaniel with the attitude of a pit bull:
http://www.mycockerspaniel.com/past_contests/sep06.htm
Posted by: warren | February 29, 2008 1:54 PM
Oh and as to my post on the poll...I'm dispelling the electability argument.
Hillary has very strong numbers among Dems. Her numbers are also very good among Indies...not not as good as obama's but w/in a few points. I don't even take the Republican numbers as helpful - 8 and 5 percent? Not helpful.
Obama clearly also has negatives and has electability issues as does Hillary as does McCain. As i have said here before. There are groups of voters they will ALL have to win over. This poll shows that Obama and Hillary both at exactly 50% will have the same problems just with different groups and it's a long way to Nov.
So...my argument is that electability can be taken off the table as a reason to vote for BO as he is no more electable than she is.
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 1:55 PM
Sure thing Wendy. Since you wished it away - the electability argument is off the table. Hillary will still lose.
Posted by: warren | February 29, 2008 1:56 PM
Warren...you say my arguments are removed from reality...yet you don't point out the flaws in my argument or try to dispel them - just a blanket statement that my arguments are removed from reality.
I believe I look at the heart of the matter - dig a little deeper into what's really going on.
If you say he's more electable and thus should have my vote based on that...I see evidence to the contrary.
If you say he's going to change Washington by ushering in an era of a new kind of politics and thus should get my vote, I see ample evidence to the contrary.
I'm looking for a reason to vote FOR him.
Nobody is providing me one.
Perhaps it is you Warren who is removed from reality as you persist in your support of an image.
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 2:00 PM
Wendy:
I have given you many reasons to vote for Obama - but I suspect when you read them - you are too busy thinking of counter-arguments for those points to resonate. I think I will save my efforts till after Mar. 4 - maybe at that point you will have a bit more of an open mind...
Posted by: warren | February 29, 2008 2:03 PM
BTW all - Taylor Marsh was not the original source of the Obama CTV quote - that was CTV themselves calling him out. I know some people will write that off as being...oh it's Taylor Marsh...but CTV is not giving up on this...let's see what happens.
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 2:04 PM
dog's eye -- But independent voters do not build the party. They float from candidate to candidate and do very little of the real work it takes to make a political party viable over time. It's fine to say "you need the independents and Republicans" -- but what I think is happening is a watering down of the principles that Democrats hold dear. I see us now becoming the party of accomodation.
In the old days we might have been able to work with Republicans. But in the post-Newt world, I don't think so. That was my biggest gripe with BillClinton He thought he could deal with the buzzsaw. I'm already seeing some of these younger male bloggers waffling on right-to-choose, saying maybe some "give" is required to get the wing nuts off our back.
This season we had the chance to gut the policies Bush dumped on us. No wonder the Republicans love the idea of Obama-the-conciliator. Given what has been done to this country by Republicans, especially during the past 8 years I am just dumbstruck that now we're being told we "don't want a fighter." I damn sure do.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 2:05 PM
Hey Warren:
Love the Lucy story.
I worked in animal rescue in South Central area of LA for many years. Actually specialized in Pit Bull rescue and rehab for many years. I lost my Pit/Boxer last year to cancer - that's when we got the french bulldog (wanted another bulldog but needed a townhouse size.
OK guys...save the pit bull personality jokes...LOL
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 2:08 PM
Patsi:
You post reflects the kind of thinking that has led to a Republican being in the White House for 20 out of the last 28 years.
The Dems need to focus much more on strateegery - like the GOP does.
Posted by: warren | February 29, 2008 2:09 PM
Wendy:
I had a few pit bull mutts growing up as a kid - I think they are great dogs.
Posted by: warren | February 29, 2008 2:14 PM
Wanda Sykes was great last nite on Leno, especially her take on the election/candidates. The video for 2/28 is not up yet.
Posted by: Rezdog
| February 29, 2008 2:17 PM
Warren - I know you've given many reasons for why you support Obama and we can look back at the posts - I've NEVER criticized YOU with regards to those reasons. It doesn't matter whether I agree with your reasons...they are your reasons. My posts here today regarding criticism of Obama and criteria for voting for him was not directed at you specifically.
I know you said you'd rather have Obama because you feel he'll listen to the American people and that Hillary has a blueprint she's going to force upon you. I, at the time, said I liked a person with a plan.
You have not changed your position...and I could easily say you are equally as stubborn as me...yet I don't - there is no need to - you are entitled to your view and to post what you want about that view just as I am entitled to post my view and if I want to stick by Hillary and criticize BO...I'm entitled to do that.
It seems to me that some on this board - and yes Warren I'm going to lump you in here - when you can't address the issue that someone is specifically bringing up with any good counter point - you attack them on a personal level. I'm not saying Clinton supporters don't do it as well. I don't mind defending my point but if I have to defend myself, personally, I'll just start skipping your posts like I do some others.
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 2:21 PM
Feb 28th, Ohio state representative Eugene Miller spoke passionately on Hardball about his continued support for Hillary Clinton, despite a reactive organized attempt to take him out in the primary. I have seldom heard someone speak about Hillary Clinton with such clarity and eloquence. I hope this young man gets into national politics one day because we need more with his courage. So I ask you to consider helping him out with a campaign donation. He doesn’t have a sophisticated site that takes cards, but here’s the address where you can send a check:
State Representative Eugene Miller
540 East 105th Street
Suite 305F
Cleveland, OH 44108
Make checks to The Committee to Re-Elect Eugene Miller
BASIC INFO: Eugene R. Miller has lived in Greater Cleveland his entire life. After earning his GED at the age of 20, he went on to earn his Bachelor's degree in Sociology at Baldwin-Wallace College. Mr. Miller knows the hardships of balancing the efforts associated with being a single (custodial) parent, a hard worker, and a student. He is an experienced political manager and coordinator. He believes that opportunity is the cornerstone of this society. (In 2006 Mr. Miller worked for the Office of Congresswoman Stephanie-Tubbs Jones while running his own campaign as a candidate for Ohio House Of Representative's 10th District.)
http://www.repeugenemiller.com/
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 2:24 PM
I think the Dem establishment needs to start listening to that 21-year old superdelegate that is supporting Obama. That kid seems like a whiz! Maybe he should be Obama's VP.
Posted by: warren | February 29, 2008 2:29 PM
Taylor Marsh LIVE!
Monday - Thursday 3:00pm Eastern / 12:00pm Pacific
mms://wm13.spacialnet.com/TaylorMarsh
(** Link above goes live when show airs. **)
http://www.taylormarsh.com/taylor_marsh_live.ph
Posted by: GORDO | February 29, 2008 2:34 PM
Patsi:
I think it is great that Eugene became an elected official after earning his GED. And I'm not being snarky - I really do think that is cool.
Posted by: warren | February 29, 2008 2:34 PM
Alpha,
When you get a chance please look at my 8:16 from this morning.
From your later posts this morning I can better understand your situation and that of others similarly situated in your community. But, I have real trouble translating that experience to the under-40 cohort as a whole, not just within your demographic, but across the country.
I understand your comments about the older group of black elected officials as indicating that they are no longer relevant. Such a shame as many of them are heroes to all of us.
I live in South Carolina. You mentioned Rep Clyburn as one who saw the light early on. I thought he saw the writing on the wall and he chose to throw Clinton under the bus while Kennedy was telling approaching traffic to 'hit-it!'. So be it.
But, then I'm extrapolating from what I saw here and read in a Philip Gailey oped out of St Petersburg that ran the Sunday before the Florida primary. It's unfair of me applying that bias in suggesting these are tactics that are being employed across the country.
Posted by: Flatus
| February 29, 2008 2:35 PM
"Maybe he should be Obama's VP."
Warren,
File him for future reference. The Constitution insists that the VP be at least 35.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 2:39 PM
I'm curious,
How many posters in here are gay/lesbian?
Posted by: Bear
| February 29, 2008 2:42 PM
"I think it is great that Eugene became an elected official after earning his GED. And I'm not being snarky - I really do think that is cool."
AND went to college on his own, and has a whopping $100,000 student loan debt. This country is disgraceful in the way we treat people who want an education.
PS -- I knew you weren't being snarky even before I read that part...:)
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 2:46 PM
Jamie:
Maybe we can get him a fake ID.
Posted by: warren | February 29, 2008 2:46 PM
Pushing it a little. He can't even become a Congress Critter until he is 25. Maybe he could run for a state office to start making contacts and finding money.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 2:49 PM
Did anyone here watch the New York Philharmonic's perfromance in Pyangyang? I was on PBS last night...besides the fact that it was a magnificent performance, I am intrigued by this parallel.
The link I'm including below is of Rep. Jack Kingston blasting Obama for not wearing a flag lapel pin. Of course the Congressman wasn't wearing one either at the time. I bring this up because between pieces, Bob Woodruff had taped segments to show what the North Koreans were like. He made special note of how each citizen wore a pin over their heart to memorialize Kim Il Song. I wonder if I am the only one who sees the disturbing parallel here?
Posted by: Bear
| February 29, 2008 2:50 PM
The kid definitely needs some cash - I think he still rides a bike around.
Posted by: warren | February 29, 2008 2:51 PM
Sorry, I forgot the link...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/28/dan-abrams-nails-rep-jac_n_89041.html
And while I'm here, another point. All these patriotic people who are against flag burning, you ever wonder why they aren't offended by stores that put the American flag on underwear? Lord know that the average hick/ghetto idiot probably doesn't do a good job wiping their asses, yet we are more willing to tolerate shit stains on the American flag? How is this worse than someone making a legitimate political statement by burning the flag, which happens less than a dozen times a year?
Hell, when some anti American protestors in another country burns our flag, I laugh at them because that's all they got to support their point? I think they immediately marginalize themselves by doing so.
Posted by: Bear
| February 29, 2008 2:55 PM
breaking news: blogger nancy nall revealed Bush aide (and Rove right-hand-man) Timothy Goeglein is a plagarist.
I am a regular visitor and poster at nancynall.com. The full story is hashed out in lenght on her blog...here's the WaPo report...it's on Drudge, too....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/29/AR2008022902136.html
Posted by: Dexter
| February 29, 2008 3:28 PM
Big Mo here bear
Posted by: econsmed
| February 29, 2008 3:33 PM
" I wonder if I am the only one who sees the disturbing parallel here?"
Bear -- don't get me started on flag pins -- or flag anything else for that matter -- or Freedom fries, or those yellow Support the Troops magnets (made in China) on cars. If every a-hole who thought those ribbons showed their support would have sent the $2 bucks to the National Veterans Foundation (that helps council vets who fall through the cracks) we'd see some real progress.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 3:38 PM
Who is that dark haired MSNBC "newscaster" who is on now, the one who looks like a Stepford wife and is very snotty?
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 3:40 PM
Affectionately known as Noron
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 3:46 PM
Whatever her name is (I think she's married to another "journalist") she just came within an inch of calling a black congressman a liar for saying some Superdelegates were receiving threats. You could tell that he thought she was an idiot...it's not like he's the only one talking about this. God, she was rude!
Ah! They just said her name: Norah O'Donnell.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 3:48 PM
Bear
ET isn't around today because he and the boyfriend are off to a comic book convention.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 3:48 PM
Cold and rainy here. And I just made the best comfort casserole in the world. Hamburger, macaroni, onions, green beans, corn, garlic, some herbs and hot paprika..a little tomato and mushroom soup....topped it off with refrigerated biscuits the last ten minutes. YUM.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 3:51 PM
Hmm....should have typed counsel...too full of casserole.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 3:54 PM
Patsi:
You leave Norah alone - she is the best. And if things don't work out with her husband - I may start stalking MSNBC's studios... (just kidding).
Posted by: warren | February 29, 2008 3:59 PM
Bear - in answer to your 2:42 post
My hands up.
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 4:00 PM
"She didn't call him a liar, stop twisting things, she asked him to back up his claims. He couldn't! "
Here is what I said, B'rye/B'rye, stop lying: "she just came within an inch of calling a black congressman a liar"
And she was trying to get him to formally accuse Obama...he didn't bite.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 4:09 PM
Same basic sh*t, different day; conflating of issues. People are quick to do around here.
Posted by: Rezdog
| February 29, 2008 4:14 PM
Are you stopping by to raise the discourse, Rez?
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 4:23 PM
warren, you may know me better than you know. LOL. Actually, I was attracted to Taylor Marsh when I caught her radio show while I was on a business trip to Flagstaff or Seattle - I forget which now - long before I ever saw her website and that low cut top, which didn't hurt at all. *L*
That was Rep. Cleaver (at least at one point he was onn by phone). He said that he didn't receive any threats but talked with fellow black congress members who had received those threats, letters and taunts.
Dow lost 315 today. Great news, no?
Posted by: pogo
| February 29, 2008 4:25 PM
Norah O'Donnell...beautiful, annoyingly transparent regarding her political proclivities, incredibly irritating laugh; married to a CHEF, recently gave birth to twins, already pregnant with their virtual triplet....
Posted by: harborwoman | February 29, 2008 4:25 PM
Noron is hot too...lol
Posted by: Bear
| February 29, 2008 4:26 PM
warren, you seem to have a great eye.
Posted by: pogo
| February 29, 2008 4:26 PM
as do you bear. And HW, you're right about the rest.
Posted by: pogo
| February 29, 2008 4:28 PM
Ah....a chef, not a journalist....that's a step up for her. She's a Republican isn't she? She always sounds like one.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 4:32 PM
I say that, if things don't work out between Norah and her chef, Warren's gonna' have his hands full if he ever gets her attention!
Posted by: harborwoman | February 29, 2008 4:34 PM
Patsi...
Perhaps her political proclivities aren't as transparent as I think. I've never pegged Norah as Republican.
Posted by: harborwoman | February 29, 2008 4:35 PM
Noron is another of the MSNBC crew masquerading as news people while being hopelessly partisan. Everything she says about Senator Clinton will be just an itty bit oh so sweetly negative while everything she says about Senator Obama will practically drool with warmth and delight. You almost have to watch her do it, because a straight transcript just does quite capture the lip curled with disdain or the slavish ingratiating smile.
If it weren't such an evil perversion of her profession, you would have to admire her talent.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 4:36 PM
doesn't quite capture.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 4:37 PM
Dow closes more than 300 points down. Wonder if the President can sense that something might be going just a bit awry.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 4:39 PM
Noron's got a dorky lookin husband...I think one good health department scandal and she'll be a single woman...lol
I do wonder if any lobbyists and pols shack up at one of his restaurants though...
Posted by: Bear
| February 29, 2008 4:41 PM
Jim Baker--Repug agent provocateur--the key strategist in Bush's post election 'victory'.
Caught a glimpse of him in a crowd that included McCain on some news program around lunchtime.
Means one thing to me; the Repugs will do whatever is necessary to win the general election.
Posted by: Flatus
| February 29, 2008 4:43 PM
Jamie,
Gay or straight, no one here is kicking her out of bed...pregnant or not, unless she turned out to be a handler for O'Brien...
George Costanza: Didja see the way she was looking at me?
Jerry Seinfeld: She's a Nazi, George. A Nazi!
George Costanza: I know, I know. Kind of a cute Nazi though.
Posted by: Bear
| February 29, 2008 4:45 PM
Bear,
I've seen some men any sane woman would avoid having in their life, but they sure made great scenery.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 4:51 PM
Jamie...
We share an opinion of Norah's political proclivities, I see...
Posted by: harborwoman | February 29, 2008 4:55 PM
Just watched Norah interview with Cleaver...laughable. She looked disappointed in the end that all her interrupting and accusation didn't trip him up in any way...
If they wanted to try and discredit these black superDs supporting Hillary that are bringing attention to this issue, they should have had Chris Matthews do it - he's much better at putting words in people's mouths.
Funny...poor MSNBC...they'll be doing documentaries about them soon exposing what hacks they've become. LOL
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 5:09 PM
I had placed a bet about how long it would take for you to say something about downhome casseroles, B'rye. I'm still waiting for you to attack the young black congressman for getting a GED.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 5:12 PM
harbor -- I think the reason I've thought Norah was Republican is because I've heard her drooling about Bush a couple of times.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 5:19 PM
Gee, B'rye, had no idea you were a food critic. Couldn't tell it by the posts about your own cuisine.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 5:36 PM
quasi-political link: "Olympia Snow(e)"
http://yahoo.usatoday.com/weather/news/2008-02-29-maine-snowwoman_N.htm?csp=1
A great weekend to all, left, right and center.
Posted by: blueINdallas | February 29, 2008 5:41 PM
Too much fun. I wonder when they did it
http://www.maniacworld.com/frozen-in-grand-central-station.html
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 5:42 PM
Matthews must have been taken to the woodshed. Either that or being confronted with a three woman panel in the first half he decided he couldn't do his usual schtick. Reasonable questions, reasonable answers, no interruptions. No spitting.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 5:48 PM
Jamie - the video you posted...love that - too funny.
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 5:50 PM
Just showed a video of Senator Obama preaching to the country about what is necessary to get out of poverty. All of them great ideas. How long ago did Senator Clinton write "It Takes A Village".
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 5:55 PM
Patsi.
He really is quite a chef ... rude, mean, and obnoxious, but a chef.
Between him and Chef Sheila you can get some truly great recipes, so don't burn all the bridges.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 5:57 PM
Jamie, I burned the B'rye bridge a long time ago, with no regrets...:)
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 6:06 PM
Hi gang. This links to an interesting story by a reporter for a small community paper in Chicago who covered Obama as he launched his political career in the early 1990s. A couple of interesting points: How Obama alienated a lot of his fellow African-American lawmakers with his ambition and relative lack of accomplishment until he found a political godfather in his later years as a legislator. Also some good perspective on Obama's personality and temperament behind the scenes -- stuff that's not really being written about much, if at all, by the hagiographers these days.
http://dallasobserver.com/2008-02-28/news/obama-and-me/full
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 6:08 PM
HEY NOW...
How low can TUCKER GO! Marion Barry Siting......
Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 29, 2008 6:25 PM
That's Sighting..... ;0)
Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 29, 2008 6:25 PM
....Forgive me friends,
After having been a constituent during Marion Barry's Coke and Prostitute heyday, Ala Spending the Taxpayer's money on favors, bribes, and special trips, I'm slow to forgive....maybe I should.
Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 29, 2008 6:30 PM
hmmmm - so under Obama plan...there will still be troops in Iraq...according to Susan Rice. That's interesting.
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 6:42 PM
Great Tuna casserole without noodles/side
Campbell's Cream of Mushroom Soup
Fresh or canned peas
Albacore Tune
Topped with potato chips..
very simple..delicious as a side dish
Posted by: Oregon Democrat | February 29, 2008 6:42 PM
Obama said he would pull out...he promised.
Posted by: McCaina | February 29, 2008 6:44 PM
How come Rice's response to the CTV issue is that the Canadian's issued a statement saying there was no contact and we take them at their word.
Wouldn't the Obama camp know if they contacted the Canadian Ambassador and be able to say emphatically themselves that there was no contact w/o having to say...Canada said we didn't and we take them at their word?
The plot thickens or spins or something.
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 6:47 PM
Thanks McCaina...I forgot that Obama promised he would pull out of Iraq...got scared there for a minute...especially since Obama is soooo truthful and keeps his promises.
;-)
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 6:48 PM
Wendy, McCaina...the big lie of all the "pull out of Iraq" talk is that media commentators generally oversimplify and don't make the distinction between "troops" and "combat troops." And they let the Dem candidates get away with it as well.
Fact is, there is no way anyone, anyhow will ever be pulling out ALL U.S. TROOPS from Iraq for years to come. It just ain't gonna happen. Given the mess we've made, there will have to be a U.S. presence for a long time. Like...say...the way EPA has to monitor Superfund sites for years and years.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 6:49 PM
I'm afraid, I lamely have scratch cooked each and every campbells casserole on the planet.....as in pulled together every ingredient, just so I could say I could.....and found out it tasted better.
Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 29, 2008 6:54 PM
And before you all groan....I even whipped cream with a spoon in my twenties,, just because I wanted to know if I could. After all, if a chef could do it in the middle ages right?
Then I found out that they did it with a whip made of shredded birch.... lol
BTW took me two hours and I kept having to put everything back in the Frig....couldn't have made butter in that time, but I did it!
Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 29, 2008 6:57 PM
They love Rotel Dip and Beanie Weenies
Did that too!!! lol
Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 29, 2008 6:59 PM
By the way, I'm not a food snob...and I'm not even qualified enough to describe myself as a "foodie." But I do love thinking about things like chopped garlic, chopped veggies, fresh fish, dill weed...pasta with marinara sauce. Potato soup. They all make me hungry just thinking about them. So I guess that qualifies me as an amateur foodie.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 7:00 PM
Sheila...how does one even as skilled as you make Beanie Weanies from scratch? Do you actually slaughter the poor pig in your home?
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 7:01 PM
Oh...you can add jalapenos to the Rotel mix too, if you want. But only if you're into cultural diversity.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 7:04 PM
....Someone from my home town borrowed the name....Rotel....
Lard I had no idea there was a real dip like that....gross
Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 29, 2008 7:04 PM
Sorry Flatus, but still getting over the flu. Here are answers to your questions.
1. Obama versus previous candidates: Every presidential election, African American voters are very aware that they're discovered by the Democratic Party as being very important. So suddenly, we see white politicians finding their ways to black churches etc. And guess what would happen after the election? Nothing. Or nothing until the last year of the last term, when nothing's at risk and presidential clout is at its most weak.
The under 40 African American voter doesn't believe that the day Barack is elected 'manna will rain down from heaven", we've had too many ineffective black mayors to believe that. But they do know that Barack will create policy where African Americans are not only at the table, but pushing the agenda. And if that's the case, why use a surrogate from outside the community, Clinton, to do the work someone FROM the community can do? Positive for Obama. This isn't too hard to follow. Why would women, particularly white women, want Obama to look after women's issues as a surrogate when they have Hillary? There are natural interests. It doesn't mean that Clinton can't be passionate about black issues, nor Obama about women's issues. But if all things being equal, why not go with the one who speaks more clearly on what you want to be addressed?
And there's no reason anyone can be specific about what any constituent wants from a candidate, no matter where you sit. Ask conservatives if being specific about what they wanted from Bush worked out. It's pretty ridiculous to think that any of these candidates are going to meet all of their promises. Voting for candidates is a gut feel, a place where you know the limits of the platform and then you make decisions on the edges. That's why I find it incredulous when Democrats say that "if Obama win, I'll vote for McCain". That's like a Siamese and Calico cats fighting and the loser saying he's going to now play with Pit Bulls in spite.
When it comes to the treatment of the black community versus white white community treatment, African American voters of this age want in on the discussion. If tax zones that encourage business are good in suburban neighborhoods, African American voters want in. They want new ideas and new ways to implement them. 70% of the African American community is middle income. Bring some of those non racial middle income ideas to our communities.
As for integration, there's no either or proposition. Integration was a remedy for state sponsored segregation. A radical way to break up enclaves of white power and more evenly and fairly distribute wealth. That doesn't mean that African Americans wanted to all live in some suburban utopia. They just wanted the opportunity to do so without restriction. That is about choice. I can start my own business or work for a multi national. I can live in an Orange County suburb or an inner city middle class black neighborhood. It's my choice. One choice doesn't reject the other. It's just different.
The dissolution of African American political power was never the goal of integration. But the maturing of that power (CBC members broke down the doors, but it didn't give them the divine right to leadership) is what you're seeing.
Posted by: alpha1906
| February 29, 2008 7:05 PM
See if you can google "Bill Clinton" and "Rotel" and get a hit. I bet you do.
Honest...I haven't tried it. I'll let you do the honor.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 7:05 PM
LOL Sounds like a bastardized Chili Con Queso....
Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 29, 2008 7:05 PM
"A senior foreign policy adviser to leading Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama has told The Nation that if elected Obama will not "rule out" using private security companies like Blackwater Worldwide in Iraq. The adviser also said that Obama does not plan to sign on to legislation that seeks to ban the use of these forces in US war zones... "
Didn't those Blackwater guys murder a bunch of Iraqi civilians and get away with it because they can't be prosecuted?
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080317/scahill
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 7:06 PM
Just have to comment on this from Alpha.
1. Obama versus previous candidates: Every presidential election, African American voters are very aware that they're discovered by the Democratic Party as being very important. So suddenly, we see white politicians finding their ways to black churches etc. And guess what would happen after the election? Nothing. Or nothing until the last year of the last term, when nothing's at risk and presidential clout is at its most weak.
CHA CHING....
Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 29, 2008 7:08 PM
sorry - one more good quote from The Nation article:
"Senator Obama is concerned that Blackwater remains in Iraq, and he's concerned that they remain in Iraq and other countries totally unaccountable to US law and totally unaccountable to the law in the country in which they are operating." Which raises the question: If he's so concerned, why not throw his support behind a ban on the use of these forces in Iraq?"
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 7:09 PM
Alpha,
Anthoer great post. My eyes are opening up more and more. in other words, keep writing.
Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 29, 2008 7:17 PM
LOLOLOL Geez Dog,
You should be on the Food network! Dogs canned Food! lol
Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 29, 2008 7:20 PM
yesterday Mrs Greenacres asked for Chicken Consomme since she had a cold.... ;0)
So I made it and the Boss, Mr Meat and Potatoes Everday Guys roared, "Hey! Wheres the meat! Where's the Vegetables" mrs Greenacres in her Ava Gabor aceent was heard to say.....oh Dawling, its consomme." he went on to say, "I don't care what it is!" it looks like Water!" lol
Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 29, 2008 7:25 PM
"That's like a Siamese and Calico cats fighting and the loser saying he's going to now play with Pit Bulls in spite. "
ROFL! Good line!
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 7:26 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20080229/pl_bloomberg/a_wg4hpi71wu
Posted by: Corey
| February 29, 2008 7:26 PM
Just because We like Horsey Cartoons. ;0)
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/horsey/viewbydate.asp?ID=1721
Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 29, 2008 7:34 PM
" I was not sure about both corn and green beans in it. "
Dog's eye -- I lost the recipe I'd written down from some food tv show (probably my fellow hillbilly Paula Deen) so I was just trying to remember....but I do know it didn't call for corn....but I had some left over...so...in it went.
I just noticed I have some frozen pork chops...and a can of baked beans....more culinary possibilities. Thanks!
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 7:35 PM
Find Your Grail
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U6iAN9MKaQ
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 7:38 PM
This copy is even better
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yRlnSgu-bY
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 7:40 PM
Like the sound of THAT Dog,
You do the cooking and I'll bring the drinks.... ;0)
Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 29, 2008 7:44 PM
Gay Clinton Backers Defect To Obama , Eroding Her Base.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20080229/pl_bloomberg/a_wg4hpi71wu
Posted by: Corey
| February 29, 2008 7:44 PM
Alpha,
I've read all of your recent posts and have got a lot out of them. There is a lot of sophistication and nuance there that has helped me sort through and process the Obama phenomenon and his appeal to the younger generations of African-American voters. So thanks for that contribution.
In all sincerity though...I have to ask you: Don't you think it's a bit of a stretch for Obama to lay claim (even if only implicitly) to the banner of "the African-American experience" in this candidacy, and all the freight that comes with that more traditional aspects of that banner? Which, all the nuance and sophistication of your posts aside, is being played by the media in its most simplistic, primary colors level. As far as the media coverage is concerned, Obama might as well have been the great-grandson of slaves and carried in swaddling arms at Selma. That's the way he is being treated in the media frenzy -- so far.
But in reality, he is just a modern man of modest political experience who happens to be black.
Neither of his parents were African American and he is not descended from slaves. He didn't really get involved in African American communities and their issues until he was nearly 30 (after enjoying a pretty elite education). And from everything I've read about him, he's spent most of his short political career avoiding being pigeonholed with that label and alienating other African American pols who are trying to do the heavy (and more traditional) lifting. Nothing wrong with any of that.
Except that -- to then get up and invoke the legacy of MLK and the oratorical cadences and the call-and-response of the black church at rallies, etc., etc., -- it all seems a bit phony and opportunistic. Like he wants to have it all ways. Does it not?
I think it's exciting to have a candidate of color running so prominently in this election -- but to me, Obama occupies the same historic ground as the first Hispanic-American or Asian-American (or female?) candidate would occupy.
The first American president who is a descendant of slaves? Now...THAT will be something at an even higher level, historically speaking, when we're talking about the Great American Journey. And it would deserve the level of breathless coverage that Obama has been getting.
But it ain't happened yet. And it won't happen this year...even if Obama wins.
I'd like to hear your perspective on some of these points.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 7:46 PM
Craig, excellent analogy in Video TM today.
Yes, sir, step right up.
tt
Posted by: tiptoe
| February 29, 2008 7:52 PM
Okay folks. Cease fire.
If we're really going to start trashing one another's physical appearance...let me settle the argument: I'm the biggest Lardass of all.
So let's move on.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 8:11 PM
Alpha -- I too appreciate your perspective. But let me say something regarding your criticism of Maxine Waters. Not everybody in the black community is as upscale as you seem to be. Ditto the anglo community, and most assuredly the hispanics.
I was a divorced mother and had to depend on the public school system. I couldn't afford any religious schools, nor would I have enrolled my kids in one anyway. My mother and sister were teachers and I am a staunch believer in public schools.
Vouchers are a Republican tactic to destroy the system. Maxine Waters knows that.
She tends to be more along my line of belief -- get the hell involved with the public school system. Go down there and see what your children are learning. Help out. Work with not only your own children, but others as well. Encourage critical thinking every time your child asks a question.
I'm afraid that when you speak of your generation, you mean the affluent part of it.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 8:11 PM
"Patsi I've seen your picture too and valor prevents me from offering any comment. "
Only if I've made the FBI's mst wanted list....
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 8:13 PM
Lardass,,,,
And I always thought your moniker described that "Weight" of your words ;0)
Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 29, 2008 8:15 PM
fun article by Susan Estrich, and if the local news in Boston and the McLaughlin Report tonight are any indication - probably accurate.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/political_commentary/commentary_by_susan_estrich/friendship_in_the_fourth_estate
Posted by: econsmed
| February 29, 2008 8:21 PM
These new phone ads are great. Who came up with these.
Posted by: vadaryl
| February 29, 2008 8:21 PM
"I even whipped cream with a spoon in my twenties,"
Yes but do you make angel food cake when the only tool is a wire whisk?
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 8:26 PM
Patsi, you broke the code. Years ago I was listening to what was perhaps an NPR interview of a native American delegate to a gathering of delegates from all regions of the country.
This particular man was asked, "What do Indians think" about such and such a matter. The delegate, without hesitation said, "I have no idea was they think. I can tell you what my nation thinks. But I certainly cannot tell you what any other nation thinks."
He was, of course, correct..
Posted by: Flatus
| February 29, 2008 8:29 PM
If Obama ends up being the nominee I hope he can continue to quickly counter the attacks that McCain will throw at him. They have done a great job so far. If Hillary pulls out a miracle and wins she better improve 100% in her that department.
Posted by: vadaryl
| February 29, 2008 8:32 PM
Alpha
Up thread there is a news article written by a reporter who covered Senator Obama during his climb to the top period with some interesting stories about how he got on the fast track and his interactions within the community. It seems pretty even handed and well worth reading if you want some names and background. It seems a great deal of his resume was created with a great deal of assistance from others as opposed to his own efforts while at the same time acknowledging his intelligence, ideals, and ambition.
It does make him look as if not quite ready for primetime without being negative about it, but does give a great deal of background for that judgement.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 8:34 PM
Now, for something completely different: Is anyone else annoyed by Contessa Brewer's style? I like a little bit of the conversational news style, but not as much as Brewer gives. Anyone else? Bueller?
Posted by: alpha1906
| February 29, 2008 8:35 PM
Alpha
"I can start my own business or work for a multi national. I can live in an Orange County suburb or an inner city middle class black neighborhood. It's my choice. One choice doesn't reject the other. It's just different. "
Why settle for middleclass. There is always Baldwin Hills. Those privacy gates hide some pretty nice mansions. :-)
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 8:36 PM
Alpha,
Poor Contessa....she's been taken to task for the ditzie girl she is on thie blog.
But HEY, she likes to Karioki, so are we to complain? ;0)
Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 29, 2008 8:39 PM
Sheila,
You should have given her the consume and then tossed all the stuff for war won ton into his. ... everybody happy.
I do love that chinese sliced pork,, and the snow peas, and the shrimp, and the water chestnuts, and the won tons ... sheesh making myself hungry and all I did today was pinto beans and ham hocks.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 8:40 PM
...Jamie...are you crazy? that makes too much sense and we are talking about Mrs Greenacres here.....
Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 29, 2008 8:42 PM
Jamie...BTW...I enjoyed your earlier recollections of LA childhood today. My sister lives in the new urban infill development that used to be by occupied by Hughes Aircraft (right down the hill from Loyola Marymount).
On my last visit, I decided to walk to her house from LAX...and my hike took me right through Westchester. I loved the look and feel of that community. Very retro, very what LA must have been like in the 50s. So I'll always now think of that hike when I think of you.
:)
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 8:43 PM
Alpha,
Seriously, Contessa Brewer barely has any press background. She has had very little experience other than talking head, because that "Head" is very pretty.
Very Sad.
Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 29, 2008 8:45 PM
Lardass,
Contessa Brewer is the target of the TrailMixers' dart board.
I believe anything she says of any substance is piped into her earpiece syllable by syllable. Sometimes her total ignorance shows through anyway. What an airhead.
And Lardass? You must not have seen the pictures of me that were taken by a local paper's photog as I shovelled snow .
The Lardass challenge is ON!
Posted by: Dexter
| February 29, 2008 8:47 PM
Dex...you're on. But I will fight to the death to retain the right to my God-given moniker.
After all, I'm the person who first had the courage to ask: "Does this post make my butt look big?"
How soon we forget!
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 8:51 PM
Lardass/Alpha
Can we make it a threesome
It sounds like one wonderful conversation.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 8:51 PM
Stephanie Miller on Larry King tonight with an all political panel. Heading upstairs for that. Have a great evening if I don't get back to you all.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 8:53 PM
Alpha...I hear you on that regarding SNL. Again, more perspective I hadn't considered.
Also, for the record, if Hillary were half as cute as Amy Poehler...she'd already be president.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 8:55 PM
OK Lardass...beat THIS!! (I am the one in the ski mask)
http://bryantimes.mycapture.com/mycapture/folder.asp?searchstr=&searchin=&event=458211&thisPage=2
Posted by: Dexter
| February 29, 2008 8:56 PM
My favorite was Dana Carvey playing GHW Bush. I was present for their meeting in the Oval Office and it was hilarious and brilliant.
Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 29, 2008 8:57 PM
Stephanie Miller, My favorite Obama Momma...gotta watch that.
later Folks.
Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 29, 2008 8:58 PM
Good God Dexter! I checked the pix. You call that fat?
You're Kate Moss compared to me.
You're Fred Astaire compared to me.
You're like....the Lost Olsen Twin. Who knew the Olsens were really triplets?
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 9:00 PM
econsmed...thanks for the Estrich article...very funny.
Had some interesting interactions with Estrich during my USC Law days...she's a character.
BTW Alpha - I've really enjoyed reading your posts today - they are very thoughtful and have brought a lot to the discussion.
LL - your 7:46 post in response to Alpha was also very thought provoking. I'm enjoying the discussion.
Also heard someone mention Biden as a good running mate for Obama...said Obama should choose him because Biden could be a good tutor for Obama. I was taken-a-back that the person everyone thinks should be President would need a tutor...but Biden on the ticket might give me pause to reconsider my position about him. Would be better if the ticket were Biden/Obama...but...the VP pick will be interesting.
Haven't given up on Hillary but am willing to consider some hypotheticals.
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 9:01 PM
What if anything has this campaign taught us?
Going forward:
Are we going to have to continually dissect the African American experience amongst white and other people who have little or no clue? And what the heck does it matter anyway? He did this in 1950- well she said this - isn't that racist? No he is 1/2 black no he is an African american.......
He is just a man. (period)
Maybe I am not cut out for this , because this is getting old.
enjoy!
Posted by: McCaina | February 29, 2008 9:01 PM
lookout! sheeee's back!! (my daughter brought home a stealth keyboard last night.. it's black and silent.. )
alpha...i've been reading your posts for days.. they're great.. it occurred to me today that a similar thing has been happening with what was a feminist perspective in the 70s. I went to college a little later than most, and I was at first appalled that my female classmates didnt espouse 'feminism' the way I did... my hero at the time was Gloria Steinem (hell, she still is).. but I came to realize that she and her sister writers weren't as relevant to my classmates as they had been to me...
my 19 year old daughter thinks i'm a dinosaur because I still use the word feminist.. i guess I am..
Posted by: tylenol
| February 29, 2008 9:05 PM
Wendy...don't despair about having supposed "tutors" play behind-the-scenes roles.
There was a politician from South Carolina in the 1940s named Jimmy Byrnes, a close FDR advisor who was probably the most qualified person in America to be president after FDR died. But Harry Truman ended up being president instead...and Jimmy Byrnes was his tutor. And it worked out all for the best. :)
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 9:11 PM
Now see, this is why I'm a Democrat. We're the sane ones, people! This primary campaign is going to go on, but at least it was nice to have a couple of days of pretty pleasant discussions.
Hey Tylenol, I hear you on how generations redefine philosophies. And I'm not immune. I lecture on college campuses and I have to train myself to open my brain and understand the perspective of young black students. If not, I'll get left behind too.
Posted by: alpha1906
| February 29, 2008 9:13 PM
Alpha - is your book available for the general population to purchase...or did I misread that you wrote a book?
Posted by: Wendy!
| February 29, 2008 9:15 PM
"OK Lardass...beat THIS!! (I am the one in the ski mask)"
Cute kids! Yours, nieces, nephews?
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 9:15 PM
There is a very distinct sub conscience message of the 3:00am phone call.
I am not going to say what I think it is........
Posted by: McCaina | February 29, 2008 9:17 PM
Ty...just as you recover, my keyboard is starting to give out on me.
Let me know if you're selling vowels.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 9:18 PM
Somebody just shoot me. Jonah Goldberg's book is #1 on the NY Times bestseller list. He's certainly had the cable news sales platform....bizarre when you remember that his only claim to fame was his mother's obsession with Bill Clinton's dick.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 9:20 PM
LaLi.. you can have my old one.. it's only missing b's..n's..and a spacebar.. lol
Posted by: tylenol
| February 29, 2008 9:22 PM
172 reviews and a rating of 4 stars
Posted by: McCaina | February 29, 2008 9:24 PM
Alpha is a Michaelangelo when it comes to discussing the nuances of Race In America, circa 2008.
Unfortunately, most of our media are hack cartoonists.
This country is getting stupider by the minute, folks. I'm sorry, but that's just the truth.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 9:25 PM
I dont recall his mother's obsession?
Posted by: McCaina | February 29, 2008 9:25 PM
McCaina,
The subliminal message will be that Hillary is already up, waiting for Bill to come home...lol
Posted by: Bear
| February 29, 2008 9:26 PM
"There is a very distinct sub conscience message of the 3:00am phone call.
I am not going to say what I think it is........"
McCaina -- Is this more code? I heard Matthews trying to find significance in the 3:00 am thing...and I don't get it.....
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 9:26 PM
I heard Chris Matthew going after it as well....
I think it is deeply sub conscience.
Posted by: McCaina | February 29, 2008 9:32 PM
McCaina: "I dont recall his mother's obsession?"
Surely you jest. You don't recall Lucianne "I live in Bill Clinton's shorts" Goldberg?
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 9:35 PM
hahahaha...that's it exactly... i actually resorted to copy and paste... took 20 minutes to post...
and it's tylenol, not renee.. heeeheee
Posted by: tylenol
| February 29, 2008 9:36 PM
I don't know code, but I think I know (some) people, and I think that there is some issue at play here that are a tad bit scary.
That said, I do not find any fault, because after all we are a free country. We should thank those who sign up to defend our rights and who have die in service to protect our country and our rights.
Let the politicians play......it is a contest...and someone will win.
Posted by: McCaina | February 29, 2008 9:40 PM
Dangit Ty. I knew it was you. I just screwed up. Sorry.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 9:41 PM
Maybe I was too stoned during those years, or maybe not, but seriously I have no knowledge of that woman....
Posted by: McCaina | February 29, 2008 9:41 PM
The 3:00 am thing is about Bill? Lord. One more time, I quote Frank Zappa:
"It's not getting any smarter out there."
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 9:42 PM
Rasmussen polls for Ohio released on Feb 29th shows Clinton 47% and Obama 45%.
It appears that the undecided are slowly breaking for Obama.
Hillary's numbers have been stagnant at 47%.
Posted by: Vivian | February 29, 2008 9:42 PM
Hey guys,
Yep, my books are available for sale, but if I told you their titles, you'd know my name. And I sort of like interacting this way.
Posted by: alpha1906
| February 29, 2008 9:43 PM
s'ok LaLi... :)
I went to training for my new job today...my brain is mush..
Posted by: tylenol
| February 29, 2008 9:43 PM
Okay Alpha. That's fine. We can't buy your books. We can't know your name.
We can still cyberstalk you. Let the games begin!
(Just kidding, he said, passive-aggressively)
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 9:48 PM
I'm still all broken up over dave clark five singer..
Posted by: tylenol
| February 29, 2008 9:48 PM
Alpha...do you know who Keith Woods is? He's a journalist and fellow at the Poynter Institute who gives brilliant lectures on the ridiculous use of race as descriptor in standard news stories. (As in, "police describe the suspect as a black man, 5-10 inches tall", etc., etc.)
As opposed to really describing the man...the exact shade of his skin, how many teeth he is missing, what his hair looks like, does he have any tatoos, and all that. In other words, actual useful data that might narrow down the suspect from huge chunks of the walking-around population.
But the willingness to accept (or even demand!) the traditional kind of kneejerk racial-descriptor crap pervades our media environment. And I think it actually, in a perverse way, bleeds over into something as lofty as the coverage of a presidential campaign.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 9:56 PM
"Maybe I was too stoned during those years, or maybe not, but seriously I have no knowledge of that woman...."
McCaina --- is this true? You don't know who Lucianne Goldberg is???? How stoned WERE you? How old were you?
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 10:06 PM
the fecal matter is really hitting the cooling unit up here.. our prime minister is in deep doo-doo...
Posted by: tylenol
| February 29, 2008 10:07 PM
drudge is really taking it on the chin too.. couldnt happen to a nastier guy...
Posted by: tylenol
| February 29, 2008 10:09 PM
Obviously - too young to care.
Posted by: McCaina | February 29, 2008 10:11 PM
Alpha -- you didn't answer my Maxine Waters/voucher issue....
also, I've never understood anon postings. I've never said anything online that I won't take the blessing or the blame for.
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 10:14 PM
McCaina...
You're too young to remember Lucianne Goldberg?
Uhhh...
Let us all know when your voice starts to change. You may start to notice other changes in your body as well. Like the appearance of hair in unfamiliar places and glandular swelling in other areas, depending on your gender.
(At least that's how my Catholic mom explained it all to me)
But seriously, dude (or chick) don't come to us like you have anything of value to offer if you can't remember major events from a mere 10 years ago. Otherwise, just watch and learn, with humility.
Okay?
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 10:17 PM
Lal
I remember when LAX was being built as the NEW airport with that spider shaped thingey as an icon.
In the 50s, I used to fly between LA and Phoenix or Albuquerque in the Continental tri tails. And when one of them was coming in to the OLD airport in LA, the cars would line up outside the fence to watch them land. :-)
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 10:27 PM
Oh...and I should add: Shut up until you grow up.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 10:27 PM
ROFL, Lard! Afraid there are a lot of them out there.....
Posted by: Patsi | February 29, 2008 10:32 PM
Jamie,
I love Los Angeles so much. It has just been turned into such a cliche...but it is such a wonderful place in reality, such a beautiful city, having nothing to do with all the Hollywood crap. Just an amazing place where 20 million people have settled and are trying to make their way, and all that that implies. It doesn't have a goddam thing to do with J-Lo or Heath Ledger. It's just life.
I get on the 405 or the Santa Monica Freeway in a rental car, and to me it's the same thrill as riding up the elevator to the top of the Empire State Building or the World Trade Center (pre-2001). These are all wonders of the world.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 10:34 PM
LAL
"my hike took me right through Westchester."
If you happen to be at 78th and Bleriot, the house that Bleriot runs into is where I spent my off and on life for many years.
(To understand that, you have to know that I went to 21 schools in 12 years and my dad left the service when I was 7 so it wasn't military ... it was interesting to say the least. Most people have delinquent kids. I had delinquent parents. :)
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 10:41 PM
Jamie...I pretty much stuck to main roads.
My hike route was:
Airport Boulevard, north to Manchester Ave.
Manchester west to Lincoln.
And then down the hill to my sister's place in Playa Vista.
About four or five miles in all. Not sure how close that put me to 78th an Bleriot.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 10:48 PM
New Developments Regarding Austin Goolsbee and CTV NAFTA Report
"But this evening new information has come to light: Senator Obama’s top economic advisor admitted to meeting with the Canadian consul general but has refused to deny that he discussed NAFTA in this meeting.
This raises a host of additional questions: Now that it is clear that this meeting occurred, what was discussed? Did Austin Goolsbee or any Obama official downplay Senator Obama's anti-NAFTA rhetoric to Canadian officials? Why have they have been trying to give the impression that no conversation ever occurred?"
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=6275
Posted by: GORDO | February 29, 2008 10:49 PM
LAL
Jimmy Byrnes "The Assistant" Good Rarticle
http://www.reformation.org/jimmy-byrnes.html
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 10:53 PM
Not quite sure what a rarticle is but enjoy it anyway.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 10:54 PM
Wendy...if you're still on...click the link Jamie just posted. It's the person I referred to earlier.
And...thanks for tracking that down, Jamie.
Could Joe Biden be the next Jimmy Byrnes? Maybe.
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 10:55 PM
Eye of Newt
Posted by: LardassLiberal
| February 29, 2008 10:56 PM
Couldn't find the BB King version on You Tube
Three O'Clock In The Morning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiVr4-kYm6U
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 11:03 PM
Lal
You would be here
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=W+78th+St+%26+Bleriot+Ave,+Los+Angeles,+CA+90045,+USA&sa=X&oi=map&ct=title
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 11:07 PM
LAL
I adore the LA of my memories except that it has become so incredibly crowded and I was last there twenty years ago. As Gertrude Stein said about Oakland, "There's no there there".
Still, If you make reservations at Dar Maghreb, I could probably find a plane ticket. :)
http://www.darmaghrebrestaurant.com/client/darmaghreb/index.html
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 11:15 PM
" you'd know my name"
So I just pop into Borders and ask for all books by brilliant, Jesuit educated, Los Angeles based, African American authors and see what pops up? :)
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 11:20 PM
" It doesn't have a goddam thing to do with J-Lo or Heath Ledger. It's just life"
LAL - In my Los Angeles, those people are ahead of you in the check out line. Fernando Lamas and Esther Williams lived up the hill. Elvis Presley bought me a hamburger. The man across the street had an Oscar on his TV set, Donald O'Conner actually danced on table tops while waiting for his car repair, Rock Hudson said Hi on his way into the theater where I was cashiering for the premier of Come September and Liz Taylor apologized to my aunt for Eddie Fisher's behavior. Not quite Singing In The Rain time period, but less than 40 years later before the whole studio system went down the tubes.
Posted by: jamie | February 29, 2008 11:32 PM
Lardass,
I used to have to write those crime blotter columns when I was a young reporter. I refused to add race and told my editor that I wouldn't do it. Most of these crime blotters are designed to strike fear in readers anyway. It's not like when I talked about someone stealing a stereo from a mall parking lot, that some reader was going to go "Ah ha! I can now solve the case!"
Patsi, I didn't see your post initially. I don't think it's about being affluent when it comes to the AA community. We simply have consistently crappy public schools. By the third grade, black boys are usually testing below the state average. And we spend more money with decreasing results.
Charter schools like KIPP are doing a great job by emulating the mindset of private and parochial schools. But that still leaves the great majority of kids at failing schools. Failing schools get new teachers without experience. Kids are more likely looked upon as discipline problems.
It's not a matter of belief or involvement. My mother served on the school board for eight years, and yet I didn't step on a public school campus until college.
In a competitive world, your children have one shot at a great foundation. Many African Americans are tired of schools that fail that mission without an extraordinary effort. What you want are schools that work, and with your extraordinary effort, takes your child beyond his or her wildest dreams.
Do you know what the modern school system is modeled after? If you think about it, it makes complete sense. The modern school system is modeled after Henry Ford's assembly line, with the idea that if we teach kids in a mass way, with standardized test, they'll come out pretty identical. The goal: to be able to work in a factory.
Now our kids are given a mass education that sinks most and rewards the few. African Americans interested in vouchers look at it this way:
My child's brain is precious and I don't have time for philosophical arguments. I just want to take his brain to the best school possible. Will some public schools go away? Yep, with a whole bunch of bad teachers. But others like KIPP will spring up and compete with private schools. And children will flock there.
That is attractive to poor parents, single parents, two partner parents, etc. And at the very least, the discussion should move beyond the same reason for why not, but to how can we?
Posted by: alpha1906
| March 1, 2008 12:11 AM
"That is attractive to poor parents, single parents, two partner parents, etc. And at the very least, the discussion should move beyond the same reason for why not, but to how can we?"
How about "no parents" In many ways I think the modern school system is designed for the lowest common denominator.
A point of consideration. What do those who have advantages owe to those who have none. What do the talented tenth owe to those left behind? Your child is precious to you and you have every right to want to education him/her to the best of their abilities to achieve and to expect the best education that your position and money can afford.
What about the child whose father is incarcerated. Whose mother is drug addicted. Who lives on a street where guns and graffitti are a community. How do you reach into a neighborhood and save that child? If there is any way to let them see a way up and pull them out, it is the public schools.
If you are going to ask for tax breaks so that your child can have privileges, then I think you owe it to those who can't travel the road laid out for that child, at lest see another road that you and othe parents have provided.
Posted by: jamie | March 1, 2008 12:28 AM
"Will some public schools go away? Yep, with a whole bunch of bad teachers. But others like KIPP will spring up and compete with private schools"
Alpha,
Off topic for this blog and thread, so no need to go into it.
I am not an educator but it seems to me that the voucher system will choke off the public schools and the voucher schools will just become the new public schools. Why not properly fund the public schools including decent teacher salaries, etc.
Posted by: Rezdog
| March 1, 2008 1:08 AM
Patsi:
Nope, those photos of those kids were just part of the photog's shoot, a mile away from me...I don't know them. I'm the only one I know in that grouping.
Jamie: Remember in 1970 when the 747shttp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://lh3.google.com/_BN8iIUq893A/Ruvru9X1zDI/AAAAAAAAAIc/w55AyXjqbpM/s800/USA2007%2B549.jpg&imgrefurl=http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/8CAhexzz0ApjZtEgFCebQw&h=600&w=800&sz=75&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=xeDwhYW9nj0v9M:&tbnh=&tbnw=&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfirst%2B747%2Baircraft%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG were brand new?
At San Francisco International Airport hey rolled one out close to the Bayshore (101) so the people could see it. I was totally impressed!
38 years later and I have still never flown in one. I always get an Airbus now, it seems, but I rarely fly anymore.
Posted by: Dexter
| March 1, 2008 1:13 AM
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://lh3.google.com/_BN8iIUq893A/Ruvru9X1zDI/AAAAAAAAAIc/w55AyXjqbpM/s800/USA2007%2B549.jpg&imgrefurl=http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/8CAhexzz0ApjZtEgFCebQw&h=600&w=800&sz=75&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=xeDwhYW9nj0v9M:&tbnh=&tbnw=&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfirst%2B747%2Baircraft%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG
Posted by: Dexter
| March 1, 2008 1:14 AM
Here's the Page One story from NYTimes I posted about earlier.
Ms. Nancy Nall, whose column I read for years when she was in Fort Wayne at Te News-Sentinel, broke the story.
The republican aide who was responsible in part for the evangelical rush to Bush has RESIGNED because of the exposure.
She's witty and has a lively blog. Check it out...addy is in story:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/01/us/01aide.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
Posted by: Dexter
| March 1, 2008 1:25 AM
Dateline Dallas: McCain's ad
Today a sympathy radio ad ran. In his own voice he tells of being a POW & how a cell mate made little American flags from scraps of material (where did he get red & white?) & sewed a little American flag on the inside of his POW suit. The VC found them (2 of them) and beat the guy each time. So McCain knows what it is to be an American.
I object to that ad.
tt
Posted by: tiptoe
| March 1, 2008 1:48 AM
Dex, I added him to The Corrupter's list.
tt
Posted by: tiptoe
| March 1, 2008 1:51 AM
Barbara Jordan was fantastic. I still remember a convention speech she gave, starting in 'evening news' homogenized dialect. She was talking about changes that had been accomplished, Then her voice began to very lightly change. "And this time, *I* am a keh-note speakah."
Goosebumps all over, and I'm crying again while typing this.... Like for the first time, late one night driving country roads, hearing Judy Collins singing "Amazing Grace."
Posted by: 1950democrat
| March 1, 2008 6:28 AM
tt-- material..and a needle and thread? amazing..
i have a general question about schools and the educational system in the US... in Canada, education is a provincial responsibility, so provincial taxes go to pay for all education. Is it the same in the US? with the states being responsible? and if so, how do you have a national education standard? and if it is a state responsibility, why is it always a national campaign promise to improve the schools?
also, do teachers have to have a teaching degree in the states? or can you have a degree in another discipline and then get a teaching certificate?
Posted by: tylenol
| March 1, 2008 7:51 AM
These guys are the current opening act for Michael Buble. The instruments in the song are actually just their voices.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5qc3qZqe38
Posted by: Corey
| March 1, 2008 8:23 AM
The live performance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWClObszi9g&feature=related
Posted by: Corey
| March 1, 2008 8:27 AM
Tylenol
The educational system in the U.S. is a mixed bag. For the most part, each of the states is responsible for it's own schools and there is no single national test. The feds then step in to kind of even things out with money for various special ed and poverty programs. It's pretty much a bureaucratic stew.
Harborwoman could probably give you a great more detail as she was a school principal.
Teachers go through a special college course and then take an education exam. There have been some changes of late with people possessing other degrees then taking some education courses and the exam, but I'm not sure of the requirements.
Theoretically a school anywhere in any given state will offer an education similar to every other public school in the state. This never happens. The wealth and resources of a county and the conditions of poverty/crime/multi lingualism etc all alter the ability of the school to provide a quality education.
Posted by: jamie | March 1, 2008 8:45 AM
Alpha, thanks very much for your 7:04-p.m. response. It helped me to better understand what's happening.
I wish I was more comfortable about the whole, broad concept of integration as being (not so) important in bringing the positive American experience to people no matter what their ethnicity.
I hear you saying that separate but _really_ equal is the desired outcome for many people. From my own experience, I want more. There's so much that we can get from one another.
Thanks, again!
Posted by: Flatus
| March 1, 2008 8:45 AM
We all can't forget who is going to be answering that phone at 3 am in the whitehouse until Jan 2009.
Posted by: vadaryl
| March 1, 2008 8:50 AM
I don't know how fast it takes to get a ad created like the new 3 am phone ads but I wonder if they each have spies in the ad agency to know what the other is creating to be able to produce a counter ad so fast.
Posted by: vadaryl
| March 1, 2008 8:58 AM
At breakfast I came across an interesting report on Obama and Lobbyists. The key points, from the highlights box, are:
"--His Position: Sen Obama has refused to accept donations from federal lobbyists.
--Outside Advisers: Lobbyists give him their advice and volunteer on the Obama campaign.
--Enduring Connection: Business lobbyists are often knowledgeable about complex policy issues and can provide needed expertise to candidates."
Obama Campaign Enlist Lobbyists, Mary Jacoby, page A4, the Wall Street Journal, March 1, 2008
The article really is worth reading, but I think it requires at least a trial subscription to WSJ.com.
When I had "in kind" contributions of services from a business entity, I had to report them by provider, type of service, and the fair market value. That was Florida law.
Posted by: Flatus
| March 1, 2008 9:01 AM
Interesting pattern, Hillary always seems to go first and Obama follows, right down to the attack ads. Great for him if he can continue that right into the November election.
Posted by: vadaryl
| March 1, 2008 9:06 AM
Crawford my man - Awesome job on the VTM !! you come across and deliver!!
A+++ on the retail scam
Posted by: Ping Pong
| March 1, 2008 9:09 AM
Flatus,
It is one of those it depends on what "is" is situations. If someone has your phone number and just happens to call you at say "3:00 a.m." and chit chat about some issue you are covering in the next day's vote on a bill, it really isn't a donation or in-kind. Of course a few years down the road if that call includes a stock tip or a real estate deal etc. whose to say it was due to a lobbyist's influence ...
Cynical, jaded Moi?
Posted by: jamie | March 1, 2008 9:11 AM
Senator O does seem to have mastered listening respectfully to Senator C and then saying, "Me Too" with verve and feeling to an entrhalled audience.
Posted by: jamie | March 1, 2008 9:14 AM
vadaryl - Of course he follows, BHO.. OPPS BO is the ultimate example of a no substance retail scam (in keeping with Craig’s theme) when you have nothing to lead with how can you? Hey what is that game where all the little people blindly follow something without asking questions – but usually to their demise into the fire or off the end of the bridge?
Posted by: Ping Pong
| March 1, 2008 9:15 AM
Dexter
Last night the KIPP Schools got mentioned. It seems one is coming to Ohio.
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/index.html
Posted by: jamie | March 1, 2008 9:19 AM
Obama's response to the ad mislead and confused the point.
The mislead part: Implying that commencing hostilities in Iraq would be a 'red phone' type of call. Not so. What would be such a call would be initial reports of hostile actions in a part of the world where U.S. interests could be immediately impacted and that an executive decision as to U.S. reactions might be required immediately.
The confusing the issue part: Making the point that Clinton's vote on the war disqualifies her from making middle-of-the-night executive decisions of the nature I described. Clinton's vote was based on deceptively flawed inputs from the Administration--something that has no relevance to a 'red phone' call.
Posted by: Flatus
| March 1, 2008 9:19 AM
No Doubt that if BHO,,, Darn it... that if BO wins the Dem side, That clearly JM will be the better choice for America.
Certain anyone can deduce this based on the clear facts presented on this blog alone.
Posted by: Ping Pong
| March 1, 2008 9:23 AM
Hello Flatus... You in Florida?
Great points on your 9:19.....
The more you listen to the fantasy and immaturity of BO, it is like listening to a small child with rose color dream. Nice but not reality.
Posted by: Ping Pong
| March 1, 2008 9:26 AM
Interesting Poll numbers in Texas, the Independent Undecided numbers are growing. This means these people are taking a 2nd look at this. Take a look atg these poll numbers. The poll they took before that had Obama in the lead the undecided vote was very low. Would be interesting to see there next poll since these numbers are changing by the day. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/docs/InsiderAdvantage_MajorityOpinionTXDemPrimaryPoll-2-28-2008.html
Posted by: vadaryl
| March 1, 2008 9:38 AM
Here is the previous numbers http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/polls/pdfs/insider-advantage-majority-opinion-research-texas-democrat-poll-feb26-2008.pdf
Posted by: vadaryl
| March 1, 2008 9:41 AM
I think what irritates me most is the spinning of what that "war vote" was....she did not vote to invade Iraq. Nor did anybody else. They voted to authorize the POTUS to take military action if diplomatic efforts failed. And when she cast that vote she gave an impassioned speech to that effect. To say "she voted for the war" is just not true.
Posted by: Patsi | March 1, 2008 9:41 AM
Patsi.
You said that very well ! Oh my we agreed again
Posted by: Ping Pong
| March 1, 2008 9:43 AM
If bush would not made a mess of the war this vote would not mean a thing. The most improtant thing is what are they going to do about it now until Jan 2009 and what are they going to do about it in the future. We can't change what happened and what decision they made at the time.
If Bush did do his job, what would you of thought of their votes.
Posted by: vadaryl
| March 1, 2008 9:46 AM
Hi All:
LL and Jamie - thanks for the Jimmy Byrnes info - mini history lesson for me this a.m.
Sorry I missed the public school convo last night - looks like it was a pretty good one. I have several friends that teach in the LAUSD and surrounding school districts - some friends who are community college professors as well and the state of our public schools is frightening.
Standardized tests don't test anything and No Child Left Behind should be abolished - burden on teachers and schools across this country and doesn't allow teachers to focus on individual student needs. Fund the schools definitely. But create a situation where the entire school year is spent prepping students on test taking strategies...ridiculous.
Where is Craig today...he's provided us nothing new to nash our teeth about.
Must go read Burroughs Junky this morning anyway.
Posted by: Wendy!
| March 1, 2008 9:47 AM
Vadaryl,
Another great point, And BO did his great job of confusing the facts when he responded (note to self that he responded not lead again) to JM point on Iraq and AQ.
Man I am so glad that BO is not selling cars in this area.... Maybe GM should hire him to help save the US based auto makers
Posted by: Ping Pong
| March 1, 2008 9:51 AM
Ping Pong! Good to "see" you! And OHMYGOD! we do agree on some things....ha!
I've always said that when people wanted Hillary to apologize she should have said, "I apologize that I failed to recognize that George Bush is a lunatic."
Posted by: Patsi | March 1, 2008 9:54 AM
What's interesting about that poll Vadaryl is that Obama has lost support but not necessarily to Clinton...it appears they've gone from Obama to undecided...
Perhaps that plays into the "buyers remorse" narrative and in the end they'll break for Clinton.
Fingers crossed.
CTV story still not going away and we've got 3 more days before junior Tuesday. If questions about the "Authenticity of Hope" persist...could be good for HRC.
:-D
Posted by: Wendy!
| March 1, 2008 9:54 AM
Patsi,
At the time she made that vote and speech, she represented the state of New York and constituents who had seen those towers fall first hand.
He represented a very liberal, anti war district in the lower chamber of Illinois state government. As soon as he started moving up the food chain in the Illinois Senate , his vote kept getting more conservatively modified until reaching the U.S. Senate when it became identical to all of hers.
More examples of "Me Too" in order to achieve his ambitions.
Posted by: jamie | March 1, 2008 9:55 AM
OK, The PIng adds to the comedy.... Not that I am represented in this item.... Please
http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-walt-babyboomers-blurb,0,1036393.blurb
OK not in total... but getting there
Posted by: Ping Pong
| March 1, 2008 10:01 AM
Jamie wrote: "More examples of "Me Too" in order to achieve his ambitions."
LOL
Posted by: Wendy!
| March 1, 2008 10:02 AM
I forgot to make that point about Obama's numbers. It will be interesting to see in the next poll if that continues.
Posted by: vadaryl
| March 1, 2008 10:02 AM
Has the media picked up on the undecided shift?
Posted by: vadaryl
| March 1, 2008 10:04 AM
"ABC News' Jennifer Parker spoke to Goolsbee, a University of Chicago economics professor, Thursday who would not confirm or deny that he had a conversation with Georges Rioux, the Canadian Consulate General in Chicago. Rioux, in meetings this week in Ottawa, would also neither confirm nor deny any conversation took place. Both men did say that they know each other."
Posted by: Wendy!
| March 1, 2008 10:05 AM
It appears Ben Franklin was right: "Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead"
Posted by: jamie | March 1, 2008 10:08 AM
Illustration of not believing everything Obama tells you:
"Obama's Fuzzy Math"
http://slate.com/blogs/blogs/trailhead/archive/2008/02/29/obama-s-fuzzy-math.aspx
If he count count delegates...how is he going to balance the budget?
;-)
Posted by: Wendy!
| March 1, 2008 10:11 AM
No, Ping Pong, We've been in Columbia, SC for the last ten-years. When I retired from the AF, we moved to Florida spending about 15-years there. After both of my parents passed on (they wintered in Sanibel) we left the state. It was simply to crowded where we were and we were ready for a change. There was illness involved as well-the voters were sick of me. (Not my line, don't no whose it is, but it works! Bet someone knows who it belongs to. It deserves attribution!)
Posted by: Flatus
| March 1, 2008 10:15 AM
Are you aware that Rush Limbaugh is encouraging his listeners to vote for Hillary in the upcoming states? (I don't believe the "spin" he is feeding the ditto-heads, but hope they buy it.) Will not get into what I believe Rush is really up to with this.
Posted by: GORDO | March 1, 2008 10:15 AM
"Columbus sailed to the New World some time after 1750, not in 1492."
Dog's eye -- Those kids should have been taught the old line: In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue."
The entire education question is weighing on my mind this morning. I know that earlier Rez said it was off topic for this blog....but I think it's crucial to the country. I don't think any of the candidates have addressed the depth of the problems.
Posted by: Patsi | March 1, 2008 10:21 AM
What I have never understood is why you have to limit the curriculum on literature in order to teach a child to read. It seems to me that the more interesting and challenging the material, the more the child is going to want to be able to read it. Then again, I don't remember learning to read
http://jdurward.blogspot.com/2008/02/how-to-read-to-child.html
Posted by: jamie | March 1, 2008 10:21 AM
Patsi,
I doubt that anything is off topic on a blog where the regulars play you tube music for each other in the middle of the night. :)
We usually do Craig the courtesy of commenting on his article and then the conversation just takes off from there.
Posted by: jamie | March 1, 2008 10:25 AM
Flatus, I thought maybe you are a doctor as the medical use for your blog name.
Dog - OK now put together the fact that our educated are not that educated (and sad to say if they are it is by liberal PC correct standards) - Then they are voting based on what basis... a formula for BHO... Golly darn it.. I mean BO
Posted by: Ping Pong
| March 1, 2008 10:27 AM
Flatus
Frank Eldridge
http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/2005_06/senate/index2.htm
Posted by: jamie | March 1, 2008 10:27 AM
Dog...I like your line about civil rights and education...I agree...
Posted by: Wendy!
| March 1, 2008 10:27 AM
"Alpha touched on education yesterday."
Yes. That was in answer to my post about Maxine Waters and the public school system. It touched off some very good responses from several people.
Posted by: Patsi | March 1, 2008 10:30 AM
Ping Pong,
Michelle Obama stated that she had no objection to the use of her husband's name that both were proud of it. That it reflected his heritage, world view, and background.
It was the use in a hateful manner to depict him as some sort of "Manchurian Candidate" potential traitor to America that was the problem.
It is only the far right, fear mongers and radio creeps that are trying to sell that swill and passing it around the internet.
Of course, the flashback on it is that it is coming from the Clinton camp which it isn't. I've seen enough of that crud in my mailbox from my wacko acquaintances to recognize the source.
Posted by: jamie | March 1, 2008 10:34 AM
Jamie.. I agree - and as i stated a few days back that I have friends and the US has many friends that this name is of great honor. And working for a global company.... you can imagine the fun we have with names ...
It is so childish and BS - a distraction from finding the real facts - so to that end it is good for BHO as people spend the limited resources discussion on this NON issue then getting the facts on policy.
ALSO - I am sorry but what I did see on the one video where the H word was used was not offensive and only used ONCE. The media and JM created the histeria
Posted by: Ping Pong
| March 1, 2008 10:39 AM
Ping Pong
If you pick this up later, the radio guy who introduced JM is one of those creeps I mentioned. He was going on and on with added emphais on the "Hussein" part, it was really ugly, then Rush took it up mimicing JM. It was pretty nasty all the way around and the emails circulating with the whole Moslem connotation of the name are even worse.
Posted by: jamie | March 1, 2008 11:00 AM
Hi, guys! NEW THREAD....
Posted by: harborwoman | March 1, 2008 11:06 AM
Jamie,
It was the use in a hateful manner to depict him as some sort of "Manchurian Candidate" potential traitor to America that was the problem.
It is only the far right, fear mongers and radio creeps that are trying to sell that swill and passing it around the internet.
Actually it was former Senator Bob Kerry who first started using his middle name.
Posted by: FryDaddy
| March 1, 2008 12:31 PM
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