Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Ron Paul should run and let's have everyone else who has been suggested this year too. Bloomberg should get in, Nader and maybe the religious right will still put up a third party candidate. I am sure Huckleberry will be available if he cannot get on the McCain ticket. Or they can always get Gary Bauer.

It's not too late for Shapton Tancredo the Unity 08 ticket
Is Barry Commoner available? What about John Anderson and of course Ross Perot is still kicking too..

Excellent news/Mark Pazniokas:

Thanks to Zell Miller, there is a rule to deal with Joe Lieberman.

Lieberman's endorsement of Republican John McCain disqualifies him as a super-delegate to the Democratic National Convention under what is informally known as the Zell Miller rule, according to Democratic State Chairwoman Nancy DiNardo.

Miller, then a Democratic senator from Georgia, not only endorsed Republican George Bush four years ago, but he delivered a vitriolic attack on Democrat John Kerry at the Republican National Convention.

The Democrats responded with a rule disqualifying any Democrat who crosses the aisle from being a super delegate. Lieberman will not be replaced, DiNardo said.

jeeze 511 comments in the last thread. Remember the saying, "When all is said and done, more is said than done." CQ may regret allowing us on their server when we take up all the bandwidth.

yo soy Horsedooty!

Since Ron Paul desn't seem to be spending much, what's happening with his war chest?

Morning, Doots -- great saying and very true. Ha!

anyone know where I can find a book with rules to survive a brutal and manipulative comment section?

Well hopefull it will get better for you guys soon.

Along with dnd and the rest, I've decided to give it a rest. After a while, you have to say, "Am I welcome/" and take the hint.

After all, we Obama supporters are just that. Not the Media. Just been defending our candidate and trying to get along with you.

So, once it calms down here, I may be back.

Craig, I do respect you, I just don't respect the attacks on here.

So, I'll be lurking along with Harborwoman, dnd, dog, mad, 9/11, cobob, and anon-p....if I missed any other possible "Lurkers For a More Civil Crawfordslist",

let me know.

Now Patsi, I like that label much better than "The Cult of The Second Coming"

From last thread....

Good morning Sheila...
Florida is a closed Primary State. Since I'm Independent I could not vote for Obama.

I refuse to change to Democratic because they have not earned it.

My two cents worth. At work, got to go.

Take care Sheila and ...

God Bless you.

Craig's article, "Media gets it wrong again" has received 737 comments so far on Huffpost

You know , I used to think politics was boring.

"Now Patsi,"

I take it you are meaning to respond to my Lieberman post on this thread rather than attepting something else.

Yes, Craig, Ron Paul is doing a great job, and his views are not that much different than the dems on the war, and foreign policy. But he, as others, was not chosen by the so-called leaders of the rep party. And he isn't black, so the media is not giving him the attention.

As to the votes in FL.........nice job on Dan last night. I would be angry also if my vote didn't count. The votes in FL & MI have to be seated legally. As a citizen, the only way I know that one can lose their vote is by being charged with a felony. Therefore, the dem. party has no right to withhold the votes. They are not the controllers of the constitution, or for that matter the law....civil rights or a little thing called "due process." The citizens would have a class action suit against the dems if they decide not to seat them.

So, what is the count of delegates this morning? I said on Monday that it would be 1400 for Hillary, and 1000 for Obama with the two states counted in.

Last night, my DSL went down, I heard that Dean wants the candidates to figure this out. Do you think by the end of the month Obama will concede to Hillary knowing that he has lost with those delegates included?

Agreed. Hope he runs as a libertarian, whether part of the capital-L Libertarian Party or something else.

It's been frustrating seeing him dismissed by the GOP and its PR arm, Fox News, for being politically incorrect, even though he has a moderate number of delegates and a pile of money.

Ron Paul will end up as a "political commentator" on MSNBC, like Buchanan.

By the way...Ron Paul is a racist.

craig's article reprint on Huffpo also has had over 130,000 views..........very nize............

I'm still wondering what happens to his money if he doesn't mount an indie campaign. Where does it all go?

Patsi-- I think it would all be turned over as a charitable donation to the Ayn Rand Institute.

" I think it would all be turned over as a charitable donation to the Ayn Rand Institute."

HA! I hadn't considered that....perfect solution for RP.

Ron Paul will end up as a "political commentator" on MSNBC, like Buchanan.

Posted by: nash | February 7, 2008 7:41 AM

By the way...Ron Paul is a racist.

Posted by: nash | February 7, 2008 7:45 AM

another similarity to Buchanan

From the last thread

"Barack did not advertise in Florida, he advertised on national tv which happened to be carried in Florida. The reason Hillary apparently didn't do the same, no cash. "

This is not true. Barack bought the cheapest possible "national buy" meaning that the commercials ran anywhere in the nation that there was a bookable spot and Florida could not be excluded"

Hillary played by the rules and bought state by state while excluding Florida

Take your pick, either his commercial buying entity were inexperienced and didn't know what they were doing or he cheated.

Patsi: Paul is still in Congress, in the House, so he can use the cash to seek re-election. With that much money, he can keep his seat forever.

KGC: Good point. Being a racist doesn't seem to disqualify one from being a commentator on MSNBC. Buchanan shows up there ALL DAY LONG, on almost every show.

Correction: Ron Paul is for SMALL gov't, not ANTI gov't.

In the ~4000 years of recorded human history, all but ~100 years have been some form of tyranny. America was the envy of the world because small gov't equates to freedom which unleashes human potential and creates prosperity and peace among nations.

The media reports straw polls, but delegates wins elections. Ron has a a third of confirmed delegates in several states and the unbound delegates can change their mind up until the convention. As RP supporters know, once your eyes are opened to the message, you never go back to sleep.

As time goes on and the economy tanks, even the deeply slumbered awaken to the message, further solidifying Paul's presidency.

Craig's lucky if he gets 5 minutes a day on MSNBC, while Buchanan usually gets an hour, if you total up all his appearances.

If Craig ran for president as a third party candidate, he could get more air time.

We should start the "Messenger" party with Craig as our candidate. Of course, if we did, the other candidates would attack him.

I certainly hope that Mika is wearing a depends undergarment today. She seems to experience a "giddy little piss", every time she talks about Clinton loaning money, to the campaign.

When the talk was that Romney would loan himself millions of dollars, everyone was in awe over his wealth. Now, however, MSNBC views Hillary as a poor. broken down woman.

I think all this Clinton bashing, by MSNBC(Mika Scarborough Nastily Bash Clintons)is going to come back to haunt them.

They are so, totally in Obama's corner, that they never even have a guest with a differing opinion. If, by chance, a Hillary supporter does get on...JS talks over them.

I just sent HRC 200.00 and signed up for the monthly contribution plan. Instead of "blowing off" voting, Jim is delaying a business trip, until Wednesday, so he can vote for Senator Clinton.

Now that I think about it, MSNBC is doing a great job getting people to rally around HRC!!

Go Joe...Go Mika...Go Joe...Go Mika!!!!

Terry: It sounds like you just drank 16oz of Starbucks. You need to cut back on the coffee. Try green tea. It brings you into harmony with nature.

Dooty..... I hear ya..... I can't keep up with all the postings either..... and it feels like the same arguments going around and around....

I'm torn about what I feel concerning a revote in Michigan or Florida.... Michigan did seem unfair.... but with both names on the ballot in Florida.... that's a bit different.....

the biggest problem with a revote..... especially in a primary is the cost.....
in a primary..... the citizens of each town pay for the vote just like in a general election.....

with the economy being what it is and I'm sure all towns and cities are strapped for cash..... I just don't see why the citizens of Florida would say something along the lines of.... "sure, go ahead.... tax me again for a redo on a primary I already voted in"..... I know I sure as hell wouldn't....

I think if the Democratic party thinks there needs to be a revote..... then the Democratic party better pay for it..... and in a state the size of Florida.... that could mean some serious cash.......

LushisLinda: Do you think Mika is intelligent? Some days I think she went to an Ivy League College, while other days I think she had a "C" average as a communications major at the University of Southern North Dakota. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

Lush.... I no longer watch MSNBC except when Craig is on..... (unfortunately, I missed him last night)....

but if Hillary is elected president..... I will have to tune into Hardball just to see Matthews reaction.....

watching his head explode would be worth the price of a new tv.....

Renee, "I'm torn about what I feel concerning a revote in Michigan or Florida.... Michigan did seem unfair....

BO is a lawyer, a big Harvard one at that. Did not he read the constitution? He could have left his name on the ballot. Or is this going to be another, " I was a bone head for letting Rezko buy me that house and lot?"

In the days before the voting yesterday an extraordinary amount of good press rained down on Barack Obama. And no network has done more to push absurdly over-the-top story-lines favorable to Obama than MSNBC has.
Indeed, is it an overstatement to say that the real loser last night was MSNBC? It's easy to read last night's results as basically a repudiation of the network. And not just because so many of the network's predictions proved a bust. The results repudiated the style of punditry that MSNBC traffics in, perhaps more so than any other network this cycle -- the constant speculation, the borderline-pathological obsession with Bill Clinton, the embarrassing Obama worship, the refusal to let the voters have their say
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/horsesmouth/

"Do you think Mika is intelligent? "
--Nash

Hey, Mika earns intelligence points with me, just because, as a young child, she learned to spell her last name..LOL!!

Seriously, yes, I think she is intelligent(and beautiful, too)!!

I used to be a Mika fan, until she morphed into a snarky cheerleader for Scarborough.

Paul/Buchanan 08

That's the ticket

"watching his head explode would be worth the price of a new tv....."
--RRenee

YOU ARE HILARIOUS!!!

I completely agree with you!!

Also, even though I want HRC to become the Dem nominee, I would love to watch Scarborough, if Obama does win. Scarborough would immediately become the main Obama basher...it would be fun to watch Mika and JS go at it!!

Did DKG just call Barack, "O'back"...LOL!!!

Doris Kearns Goodwin is on MSNBC. She makes sense out of both candidates.

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
Mohandas Gandhi

"We should start the "Messenger" party with Craig as our candidate."

Ha! I like this a lot, Nash....

You know, during this interview, with DKG, Mika has lost all her snarkiness. This is the Mika who started at on Morning Joe. 8)

"Or is this going to be another, " I was a bone head for letting Rezko buy me that house and lot?""

It goes with I was against the war until I had to vote for it.

When things are not going the way he wants, he tends to blame innocence about the corrupt system. When things are going well, then he is a head of a movement we should all be glad has finally arrived.

Nash for VP???

You know, during this interview, with DKG, Mika has lost all her snarkiness. This is the Mika who started at on Morning Joe. 8)

Posted by: LushIsLinda | February 7, 2008 8:44 AM

probably helps that joe is at the fat farm today and couldn't come to work

mornin' all.

My, my we certainly have been lathered about FL & MI. There is no question that MI should be done over - it was patently unfair to Obama, although I cannot for the life of me fathom why in god's name he removed his name from the ballot when he did not do so in FL - both of them had been declared as not counting at or about the same time, correct? My take is that FL was just as fair and unfair to Obama as it was to Clinton, voter turnout was high, and it's hard to argue that the playing field there wasn't even. That said, I wouldn't oppose a redo, but considering he expense, I don't foresee that happening. Obama doesn't like the spectre of FL's delegates counting, so he opposes having them seated at this point - so would I were I in his shoes. Hillary does like the results so she wants them seated - so would I were I in her shoes. Dean's suggestion that the candidates should figure this out is laughable and underscores my opinion that he is unfit to be head of the party; their respective positions are well known and entrenched, and they aren't playing well in the sandbox right now. Fact is, the party will figure out how to handle it, and you can bet that the members of the committee will be lobbied to within an inch of their lives by both camps.

Craig, you were absolutely right on last night - I'm glad somene other than Abrams is willing to call out the media on its love fest with Obama.

Sheila, as you know, we've been at this a long time, and you and I agree on most issues although we back different candidates. There are a number of folks here who have been in Craig's camp for a long time, most of whom know how to have civil discussions that don't degenerate into name calling and overblown hyperbole. Most of those who can't find that balance have, thankfully, come for a while then gone away. You are one of those former people, and for my money, your absense will be a great loss to this discussion. That said, the level of rancor here has escalated, and that is not a good thing IMHO. Maybe that is inevitable as the number of candidates in the election narrows to 2 on each side, and maybe it is more or less reflective of the campaign. Whatever. AT any rate, I know I speak for a number of oldtimers here in saying that I hate to see you retreat to the sidelines as a lurker - your contributions to the blog will be sorely missed.

KGC

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOOOL!!!!!!!

Actually what was I thinking? Ron Paul would be a good republican to vote for. Assuming my candidate doesn't get the nomination, which I think is a small chance she won't.

Gordo, you give MSNBC way too much credit for having viewership and impact on viewers. If you want to point the finger, point it at NBC, ABC and CBS - cable outlets are a drop in the bucket. Example - MSNBC's (and ironically Fox's) SDT coverage pulled a .08 viewer number. If that's typical of their numbers, they ain't affecting much. Hell, people who post here make up half their audience.

ET - you must not have gotten enough sleep last night. Paul's a REPUBLICAN. ";-}

People have scroll bars. If they don't like comments they should just scroll past them and not respond.

Call Me Irresponsible , I just ordered 2 tickets to see Michael Buble again. This time in Grand Rapids on April 20th.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJtMJ9gwAnI

pogo ------

Please research JW's "Lost Boys". It will all become clear. I had my eyes opened!

Since O is pushing his no vote to go to war, then why did he vote yes to keep funding the war?

Hi pogo... I didn't get enough sleep last night, tis true. But I have committed to not vote DEM if Obama gets the Presidential nomination. It won't matter anyway... as Rezdog says, WA State will go Dem pretty sure. So I figure, "why not a protest vote?"

Oh and about the rancor... there is not one side or the other responsible for that. Nearly everyone is feeling tense and wanting to see this thing settled, I suspect.

But all this "boo hoo hoo" the discontent and arguments in the blog... SO WHAT? People are passionate. Brian presses every button I have and when I respond back I am the bad guy. Pfffffft !! We can cry on and on til the cows come home about how terrible this blog sphere is, but considering the topic is politics and how we view our individual and collective futures, this group is pretty darned tame.

So GET OVER IT... and if you can't, well pull back... we all do that at one time or another. No need for a online therapy session about it.

I say that with much love and affection.

ET - Phoning Home

"I hate to see you retreat to the sidelines as a lurker"
--pogo
_____

I don't know, maybe I am not understanding exactly how blogs work.

Even though I am a longtime Crawford fan, it was the Imus/Rutgers incident that brought me to this blog.

As we all know, there were thousands of opinions written about Imus...many of which were not the same as mine.

Isn't that the point of blogging....to exchange thoughts and ideas?

I do not get offended, if someone does not agree with me. I don't take anything personally.

I like being open-minded about views that differ from mine(why else would I continue to watch MSNBC??).

I mean...am I supposed to be getting all "hot under the collar" and offended, by people's opinions or by posts that are directed to me.

Am I not doing this right?

Help me....

pogo, "My, my we certainly have been lathered about FL & MI. There is no question that MI should be done over"

As you state..........in my shoes..........that is what I am doing. The primary in WI is the 19th, and I would really be ticked if my vote wouldn't count. It isn't about the candidates as much as it is about the voter. Starting the "re-do" process is just going to create a big headache. Let's redo the states where the tornado were on Tuesday. How about all of the people who did come out because of the cold weather in the upper midwest?

I feel that the turnout/turndown is so large because of the mess this country has done with the voting system; starting back in 2000 when the big court decided over voters who won. This election will bring some changes in how primaries and voting is done in the future. But for year, we can start changing horses in the middle of the stream.

In 2000 the dems won the popular vote and lost the election due to the electoral count, why would they let their primaries run the same way. You get the popular vote you should get the delegates.

Good morning...I know he has a blimp, but what IS RP doing with all that money? Where is it going?

And this morning, I am thinking maybe we do need a third party...the OTHER GUYS party -- Gore, Bloomberg and Paul. Maybe 3 would do better than the traditional Prez, VP. A Prez, VP and a son-of-VP.

And the count doesn't go on here in New Mexico Tornado Tuesday turned into the ashes of Wednesday.

I have to hit refresh to get new entries is that the only way to get them.

Lush you have it right... Not always easy not to be offended, but it's a better way.

pogo....
you are such a voice of reason.... it's a pleasure reading your posts.....

Sheila.... let me echo pogo.... I'll miss you terribly..... and I want to apologize if my posting yesterday morning offended you...... probably wasn't a good time to get into one of my ..... "let's look at this in all ways".... moments.....

LIW.... I voted for Hillary..... but if I read one more thing about Rezko.... I swear.... "my" head will explode...... I feel like I've fallen into a rabbit hole and am now in sameoldshitonashingle la la land...... get some new material....

Lush..... the thing I miss most about this blog is all the humor that used to be here..... and I agree.... watching Scarborough if Obama wins would be priceless!....

the OTHER GUYS party

Too bad Ross Thomas isn't around to write about this year.

I must need more coffee!! But for year, we can start changing horses in the middle of the stream.

Should read, "But for this year we can not start changing hourses in the middle of the stream."

Patsi...thanks for the info on the Zell Miller rule...I have wondered about that. This morning I am done with the dems for awhile. Too much infighting and if they do not move towards a dream team, I am afraid Pat Buchanan is right...a fractured party that allows McBush to win in Nov. And I think the choice of McBush's VP will be important as I really don't think he will live through four years...just can't shake that feeling.

EuroTom....
your posts are full of humor..... that's why I like them.... and you.....
BTW..... do you think we could be considered racists because we chose to like Mr. Ed instead of Flicka...... you know Flicka was a black horse and Mr. Ed was a Palomino...... ;)

Lush.... god..... keep doing what you're doing.....

there's plenty of times and places where all you can do is hang.

"their only hope of salvation lay in valor."
----Julius in letter to the roman senate in re the war in Gaul........neat little phrase......

a pro Poe of nothing, of very coarse.

"JW's "Lost Boys"

Gordo,

Would you please provide a link since you feel this is important enough to post in every thread? If you Google you come up with everything from Vampires to Sudanese orphans.

Blonde wino
I have a very good friend who predicted about 6 weeks ago that when it came down to Clinton and Obama on the Dem side, it would be a major cat fight and that McCain would become our next president....

at the time I thought he was crazy...... now... I'm not so sure......

gotta get off this machine and get my butt back to work.....

RR

That is why I am giving the dems a rest today...and the OTHERS GUY party is beginning to appeal to me. I really wanted a gal, but testoserone too strong this year. No matter how much hormone cream I apply!

Lush - I'm like you, I don't take this stuff personally. :-) I think you are doing this right if you don't. Different strokes, I guess. KC, great point, but I do hate to see thoughtful posters leave.

LiW, I agree with you - the process is about the voters, not the candidates, which is why I think MI should be redone. The difference I draw between MI & say, TN - where weather had to affect voter turnout - is that MI's kerfuffle was a creation of Howie Dean by being a jackass and bowing to small state pressure to be the first in the nation, Barack Obama for taking his name off the ballot, and the Michigan dem. party for scheduling the primary in violation of national party rules rather than negotiating a compromise that would have avoided a fight to have their delegates seated. Those groups created the problem that disenfranchised the voters of MI. On the other hand, TN, the candidates and the national Dem party couldn't do anything about the weather. Sometimes shit happens and you deal with it - but if you created the shit, you should have to clean it up. I don't discount the legitimacy of arguments to the contray of mine - and there are good arguments to be made on both sides of the issue for both states, but I've thought it through pretty thoroughly, and that's my opinion - until I hear an argument that changes my mind.

Now, I hope the dems hold this up, point out exactly what the Repugs were voting against, and make as much political hay out of this as they can. (Oh, and take the damned provisions that don't provide a benefit to individuals out of the bill then stuff it down McConnell's throat).And McCain was being a chickenshit - a smart one, but a chickenshit nonetheless.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/06/mccain-misses-vote-on-eco_n_85441.html

I have to hit refresh to get new entries is that the only way to get them.

Posted by: vadaryl | February 7, 2008 9:16 AM

________

good question...I have been wondering about that myself. 8)

Gung Hay Fat Choy

Welcome to the year of the Rat

If you want to know your Chinese Zodiac sign, you can find it by year of birth on my blog and a link to where you can get your horoscope for the year. I'll have to check and see how this all looks for Obama and Clinton

http://jdurward.blogspot.com/

Aw garsh Renee, you're making me blush.

daryl, you sound like you believe in direct elections - Good for you - the electoral college process has been an anachronism for about the past 50 or so years when technology became sophisitced enough to count ballots without having to do it by hand. - and it's only in presidential elections that this ridiculous system exists.

daryl, lush, it's the only way I've found.

I have renamed the Repug party to the Flatline Party

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/ron_paul_flatlines/

Here is the math --

McBush = soon-to-be Flatliner
Huckster = Flat brain
Pauly = Flatlines

seems to me even though we have scroll bars it is not worth the effort if what we find when we scroll down is more of the same. Count me in on Sheila's retired list. I may lurk but not much.

respectfully,

yo soy Horsedooty!

HD

Buenos Dias! The Princess Drive-in is a car lot.

I

Bill Clinton needs to stay away from Michelle Obama.

Bill Clinton, Born 1946 Year of the Dog - Loyal and honest. You work well with others. Generous yet stubborn and often selfish. Look to the Horse or Tiger. Watch out for Dragons.

Hillary Clinton, Born 1947 Year of the Pig - Noble and chivalrous. Your friends will be life long. Yet you are prone to marital strife. Avoid other Boars. Marry a Rabbit or a Sheep.

Barack Obama, Born 1961 Year of the Ox - Bright, patient and inspiring to others. You can be happy by yourself, yet make an outstanding parent. Marry a Snake or Rooster. The sheep will bring trouble.

Michelle Obama, Born 1964 Year of the Dragon - You are eccentric and your life complex. You have a very passionate nature and abundant health. Marry a Monkey or Rat late in life. Avoid Dog.

thanks pogo 8)

Pogo

Every four years we get frenzied about the popular vote...get rid of delegates and the electorial college. But, it never happens...strict constitutionalists afraid of losing the two party system. I think if it were just reduced to popular vote an independent could win -- not just spoil or sour the race.

I've always thought Pauly should run as an indepedent -- so many think he is .

Interesting local take on the Missouri primary and what it indicates for the national primary.
Remember Missouri will be one of the states that can go either way.

http://primebuzz.kcstar.com/?q=node/9932

An interesting tidbit , Huckabee almost won the state and he doesn't have any organization in the state.

I think we (democrats)are lucky that Huckabee never got enough money to run a real campaign.

Jack

I would think folks would be happy that Craig Crawford in attracting new readers who want to comment.
There have been plenty from all sides.

jamie ----------

There is a reason I don't provide a link to info about JW's "Lost Boys". Would like to spell it out, but probably should not. Concentrate on JW. Think about one of the major complaints we have everyday. Clue: "Corporate Media"

"Bill Clinton needs to stay away from Michelle Obama."
--Jamie
_____

Yikes..

I think Michelle would eat Bill for lunch(no pun intended)!!

Gordo

If it is on the web, it is public information. If you can't be bothered to provide a link, then I can't be bothered to hunt for it.

Gordo
your just too cryptic.

Kinda repetitious and boring too , bless his soul.

That may just be me but I'm looking for new insight, interesting tidbits. Most of us have already looked at all the stuff out there and taken it in to our world view. That is why I like Craigs post on Ron Paul, it open the mind up to interesting possiblities.

Jack

KGC

Thanks for your post

" I would think folks would be happy that Craig Crawford in attracting new readers who want to comment.
There have been plenty from all sides."

Yesterday, I quit reading and writing as many of the old timers to the blog were clique-ing away. There were many references about quiting the blog and not writing as much...about how they missed the old timers. Please don't go...was typed quite a bit.

My thought...were really are not as tolerant as we think we are. I love all the thoughts as it keeps me from getting stale. Just some of the platitudes can make one crazy. And as a newbie, I was invited to join by Craig and if he wants to drop me off at the border on his swing through New Mexico, so be it.

One more for the Flatline Party

Mitt = Flathead

Jack, a Huckleberry presidency is one of my worst nightmares.

KC, I certainly am happy to see new posters here - by the same token, I hate to see my old friends leave.

Blondie - the direct election issue only arises every 4 years for obvious reasons - that's when it manifests itself as the problem it is and our politicians don't have a huge incentive to seek to change it. I believe that an amendment doing away with the electoral college would pass every state but Alaska - Ted Stevens would find some way to screw that up, too.

Open letter to C-listers (especially those who may be taking a time out)

Please reconsider. You offer much worthwhile dialogue. Yes, the rancor & combativeness that jumps out from some of the posts is difficult to get past . But on balance, the witty & knowledgable comments you add to the list are invaluable. Just look at the growth of the list, your absence will markedly reduce the quality here.

I have only recently ventured aboard this forum, although have been a Craig loyalist(the common bond
for most posters) from when he was a regular guest on a local NYC radio show, they were cancelled, but
Craig's star has continued to rise & there was no CC Trail Mix then. The loss of those I am just beginning to form a mental picture of (the anonymous nature of posting leaves lots to the imagination) would be missed.

With all due respect, I offer this suggestion---a temporary truce between the Hillary/Obama supporters & targeting the passion that permeates your respective posts toward the real goal-removal of the republican administration & its allies.

Take a breath & when you want to strike out, attack them, not each other. In the end we are all going to
need each other in November-united.

Make no mistake the apparent fracturing of the rep. party over Mccain's ascendence is a sham--they will
unite to defeat the dems. The entire Limbaugh & his clones venom directed at Mccain is a fraud. Listen carefully to their words-they may rail against him--but they really do not say they will not vote/support him in the end. in the meantime dems may wind up hopelessly split between two very good candidates.

Sorry if this is a long post, but the recent pugnacious nature of the posts seems to be driving valuable contributors away--that would be a real shame.

KC, I certainly am happy to see new posters here - by the same token, I hate to see my old friends leave

People clutch their pearls and leave here regularly

Oh whine whine whine... I'm offended again, so I think I will leave in a huff and do a little boo-hoo-hoo while I'm at it. pleeezzzzz .... Personally could I recommend we stop playing the victim role and LIGHTEN UP? Oprah would NOT be pleased at our dysfunctionality. How about we hold hands electronically and every sway back and forth singing "Kumbaya"? We could end it with "We are the World", and end with "To All the Girls I loved Before" as our special tribute to Bill Clinton.

And my very favourite recommendation... how about we stop with the "whine, whine, whine" and get into the "wine, wine, wine"...

I'll drink red.

Sante'

I think I'm gonna watch The Doris Day Show, That Girl and Mary Tyler Moore. It was a "kinder, gentler" period then.

Many kisses and hugs,

MEEEEEEEEEEEE

If this doesn't work, we could always create an online 12-step dysfunctional bloggers support group.

"I admit I am powerless over my blogging and my topics are becoming unmanageable"

"I believe that a power blogger greater than me can restore me to so-so sanity. "....

Pretty interesting that Craigs headline includes
"Don't Quit."

ET

I am channeling you across the big pond. You speak my language...wine, wine, wine. I do have such a hard time cellaring.

The Blonde Whiner

heheheheh, I got the bottles honey.

Oh and speaking of bad blogging, there sure were some typos in my last post. :)

mea culpa...

group hug... I feel better now.

buenos dias a ustedes mi amiaga Blonde wino

I am not quiting per se but I am very tired of reading the same thing over and over and over and over again.

get my drift?

yo soy Horsedooty!

ET

Wine will do that to person...I have mixed feelings about spell checker on blogs...I would have to keep hitting IGNORE.

I noticed some earlier comments about Pat Buchanan being racist. Even though I don't agree with his political view, I enjoy his commentary because he has a true passion for the process and a deep command of the history of this country.

I, as a black man, am not offended by him. As I read about more and more Texas school districts making kids learn Spanish instead of teaching the Mexicans English, I find him to be an insightful bellweather on that issue.

I loved the show that he started on CNN, the Capital Gang and I wish it was still on. I am convinced that if he and Rachel Maddow did a show together, it would be a great hour of TV. Think about it, you would think that he would cringe discussing politics with a liberal lesbian, but you can tell that he loves to discuss meaningful issues with someone who is equally as insightful and passionate about the issues.

On a different note, I love waking up to this song, inspite of who my current president is...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=y-cZiu8osE8

Coreen
My comment posted after your thoughtful post but is not a response to it but just happened to post at the same time. It is directed at Pogo's remarks.

EuroTom, Patsi, Blonde Wino, Jamie and KGC:

Yes, I am talking to you. There is a difference between discussing politics and slash and burn. I see too much downright meanness from ALL of you too often.

I do not see the Obama crowd putting up the same level of vitriol. Please put up any posts you consider vitriolic and we can discuss them.

Civilly.

I am not seeing clever discussion here. I am seeing too much character assassination, and without enough insight to make scrolling through worthwhile.

Stop patting yourselves on the backs and huffing that those on hiatus are not tolerant.

It might be that some of us tired of swimming through a sewer.

HD

As a good groupie, I really try to stick to Craig's headline.

It is just natural for thoughts to bleed from one thread to another.

I will always be your Gringa.

BTW,

What does it tell you that Angelina Jolie has been to Iraq more times than the Plunger, Mitt or Huckleberry?

And Blondie, no one has said they don't appreciate new participants here - some of the offensive stuff that drives folks away comes from old timers - but this is a blog that has a history among the oldtimers, has evolved over time, and thanks in large part to jamie was originally agreed among the folks that participated in the early days to try and keep things at a little higher level than you see on many other blogs, avoiding the use of profanity and personal affronts for the most part. Of course there was normally a conservative or two around that brought out the worst in our blogging manners, but that happens. The level of discourse has indeed gotten more rancourous, but I'm not sure it's anyone's fault as much as it is a result of the silly season we find ourselves in. Things were much easier to keep on a higher level when most of the folks commenting here were old fart progressives railing against Bushco and the Repugs. Now the issues are more personal, and there is much more polarization within the ranks. So be it. I guess people come and go - but I don't have to like it when folks I've conversed with for almost 2 years, and oddly enogh consider friends now aren't around to talk with any more. That said, I do very much enjoy many of the new voices here and look forward to having you guys become C-List veterans and friends (to the extent that we can).

and in case you are wondering, the clip I posted is from Rare Earth, the first all white act signed to Motown Records...I think they are on tour right now and I highly recommend seeing them!!!

and to second Dog's post above-

I posted her for insight, discussion of the topics on hand- politics and media critique- I do not like cliquey personal posts - the benefits of reading and posting are very much outweighed by "why did I spend the past 15 minutes doing that?"

There has been a noticeable change in tone in the past couple fo weeks- that's all. It is about benefit cost.

I, personally, have never read anything(directed at anyone), on this blog, that I consider "over-the-top" .

I must say...as a "newbie"...and at the risk of getting booted off CCTM for being "offensive"...

IMHO, I have noticed that often times the most sensitive posters are also the "snarkiest".

...I'm just sayin' 8>)

civility is a two way street DOG... And the "in your face" confrontation does NOTHING to end the "vitriol" you are complaining about. Let's take Jesus' example: "Let he (or she) who is perfect cast the first stone"...

Now on to something that is interesting:

I was just logged in to the Washington State Democratic Party website and lo' and behold, I see the leader of the party is my ex-boss from Washington Fair Share, Dwight Pelz. Dwight led the initiative campaigns that took the sales tax off of food, and also to stop the corporate interests from turning Seattle City Light from becoming another profit maker for rich people.

There's a cool video on the site. Dwight visits both the Clinton and Obama campaigns to discuss upcoming caucus. For those interested: http://www.wa-democrats.org/index.php?page=display&id=268#supervid

Love EuroTom,

"Faithfully pissing off people since 1959."

dog's eye view

I never thought of myself as a mean wino...perhaps I am a drunk who thought she was trying to be witty.

Mean to me is four more years of the repugs.

A lot this going around
I have better commentary

ET, now your 10:40 post is absolutely hilarious.

Yes, KC, they do. We go on poorer for it.

I am trying to work of the courage to go out into the cold to remove all that snow..............one last comment came to me as I read the above posts. The word "change" comes to mind. The only people who like "change" are babies. JOKE

If someone new comes too, any social group, the old members feel disheartened and in some way threatened. Now think for a moment, does anyone think that a new timer to the politics in Washington would be treated any different?

I agree,

It's ironic that liberal posters on this blog create far more bad blood than any attempt by Frydaddy or Fritz for you old timers...

On to a serious question...

Craig, or anyone else, how would I find out if whichever party that had more voters participate prior to the nomination being won tended to go on and win the general election?

I don't know if it's a legitimate thing to look at since I am sure having an incumbent running for reelection may suppress voter turnout, but I wonder if the current Democratic advantage in primary voters will translate to the general...

From one of the early Clisters, I'm letting Mr. Willie Nelson speak for me.

Well I didn’t come here, so I ain’t leavin’
I’ve been thrown into better places than this
I didn’t come here, and I ain’t leavin’
If you wanna pucker up I got just the place for you to kiss

I lurke when I want, I comment when I want and I try to avoid responding in kind to insulting comments.

As for the recent arrivals, welcome aboard, and please remember this is Craig Crawfords domain, treat it with the respect it deserves.

jamie & whskyjack

JW's " Lost Boys" provides insight---BIG TIME. You do not know about this info. If you did know, my post would not be cryptic.

Clue: "Blonde wino"

Ok, it's clear this is becoming some sort of dispute between long term posters and newbies.

There is an old saying that goes "when you're in the way, you get out of the way"... Clearly the "offended" among us are DETERMINED to milk this issue to the hilt. I am not offended, and I am not angry. I am just shrugging my shoulders and hitting the door. I'm a "newbie" and I don't wanna be causing rancor in the cozy little clique.

In my view Dog's, you're just complaining because Hillary supporters are also OUTSPOKEN.

be that as it may... I too am tired of this. I talk to disagreeable people all day long. I don't need to be carrying this on in my free time as well.

For those who want to keep in touch: eurotom at g mail dot com

arrivederci

T

Yes, KC, they do. We go on poorer for it.

This week it is because of the Obama people feeling put upon. Recently it was because Brian is the worst person ever to live on earth (did you think that was true
only harborwoman really stuck up for him)
Now Brian has switched to Obama and is a hero
do you think his style is any different?

Get a grip

Lush, the risk of being kicked off here is exceedingly low - only one person has, and that was for a comment questionning which of his parents a decidedly decent person who posted here was screwed by as a kid. Now that was nothign but personal and was manifestly over the top.

Now here's a link to Gail Collins' take on Kennedy and his effect on the Mass vote.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/07/opinion/07collins.html?hp

"EuroTom, Patsi, Blonde Wino, Jamie and KGC:"
--dog's eye view
____

At first read, I was sad not to be included on this list...no one ever includes me 8>(

After reading the post...well, what can I say? 8>)

LushIsLinda; please stop with the "sensitive" business. Is it possible you just cannot see what others do? LOL.

That said, I am glad that you are here, and that your husband is staying to vote next Tuesday in Virginia. He will be glad he did so in such an important election.

Blonde Wino: hope we will some day have an opportunity to chat over a real glass of (good) wine, not just virtual.

But can you not see the difference between wittiness and incessant griping and attacking?

Gotta say, I personally lurked for many weeks before my first post a year or so again. Sometimes the blog was terribly clique-y and self-referential, with posters claiming their favorite teas and baked goods.

At one point, I looked in and, Jeezus, they were assigning themselves Muppets.

But something got me to post, and I really enjoyed the conversation here for a long time. (Thanks to Viagra spammers, the earlier archive is not available, sadly.)

But think, ladies and gentlemen: when you have people you've chatted with for months bailing on you, might that be a sign something is not right?

It's the boiling a frog syndrome.

Maybe Patsi can provide the recipe.

Oh Gordo, thank you so much for not typing

Clueless: "Blonde Wino"

Figured out my anagram yet?

Lush: left you out because you profess to be so new at blogging. But you got your wish even as you expressed it!

EuroTom: bon voyage. Please think on this a bit. It's not newbies vs. oldies, it's people who are tiring of the venom.

That said, you put up some thoughtful and interesting posts, and I hope you are back soon.

Euro,

I hope you continue to lurk. I think the heated discussions that have recently occurred here are probably emblematic of what is happening between the respective campaigns and even among families.

This is clearly the most important election of our lifetimes and I think its the first election in my 37 years of living that has everyone engaged in some fashion...

I don't mind the frank discussion, I just don't like it when the belittling of another's opinion becomes the basis of any person's argument.

Bear ---------

The image of Zbigniew whispering into the ear of President Obama is scary!

The only time I get upset by anything is when someone accuses me of saying things I didn't say or attacks me for thinking things I didn't think. i.e. yesterday when I was told I "hated" Obama despite the fact that I had called him Brilliant and Accomplished. Everyone should be hated that way.

Dog Eye,

Who the heck boils frogs? I thought those suckers just got deep fried?

Yikes, dog....relax!!

Jamie: I saw your post, and it belittled while it praised. As it was intended to.

Bear

I like your opinions...we are a bilingual state here in New Mexico...it is a bit tedious, but everything from the government must be in English and Espanol. Sitting and waiting in the jury box pew yesterday was a reminder of that. I actually love it. It is not offensive to me and shock, I might learn something.

Maybe in 100 years when we are all dust, northern Chihuahua, western Texas and southern New Mexico will become our 51st state New Mexas. It sure would solve a lot of border issues.

What do you think, Ron Paul?

Blonde wino --------

"Wino" is the clue, not you.

Obama dosnt want to seat fla or mich felagates ....but want to change the rules to allow super delagates to vote for him if he is ahead in the popular vote even though the rules say they can vote for who ever they want .......to force HRC supers to vote for him ....and break their pledges.......the media dosnt even cover this hypocrisy

Dog
most of the vitrol on this web site involves one pet troll and the people you named responding to him. As long as your pet troll sets the tone for this blog then the noise problems on this blog will continue. That doesn't absolve those you named. They can control their half of the problem by not responding. IMO they should.

Jack

You know, I lived in Saudi Arabia, for a few years. There was no need to learn Arabic...everyone spoke English.

Even, when we traveled to different countries...we found that most people spoke English. 8>)

EuroTom:

I agree with your old saying that goes "when you're in the way, you get out of the way."

I think the Clintons should stop dividing the Democratic party and hop on board the Obama train.

kc, the last thing Brian needs is me sticking up for him - he's plenty capable of sticking up for himself. I don't see him as hero or villain, even tried to get together with him when I was in NY a few weeks ago - I long ago accepted his NY style of discussion. BTW, I was AGREEING with you, but I wish they wouldn't and I give a shit that they leave.

warren

why should obamA stop dividing the country and jump on the clinton wagon

Jack: I think it's more than one pet troll, and I am not even sure who that would be. But thanks.

Gordo...sorry I was clueless.

I have to work, but will return.

My advice to all of you today as you travel the trail....Stay away from the white light. I'd like to see most of you later in the day.

warren, I doubt that Bill or Hillary can find the money for that ticket!

Pogo
All I'm saying is -this week it is one thing last week it's another. When everyone was piling on Brian it's a lot of the same folks now complaining about the current rhetoric. But they said nothing about his role. I have no problem with Brian on style either. It is really a matter of who is on what side ...not tone or it would be a consistent complaint. The only thing that has changed about Brian is who he is supporting not how he does it . So excuse me if I don't think much of the complaint.

Because the Obama train has room for a lot more people!!

Out the door, but my BFF in Seattle sent me this --

http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=F-amZmQ0wuc

Listen, I am new here - but I think it is difficult to dicate tone by proclaimations or calls for "why dont we just get along" - but I do think people that cross the line should be given the smack down by everyone - no matter which candidate the offending poster supports.

KGC: it's NOT a question of who is on which side. And, as you may recall, Brian did tone his comments down. A lot.

warren
didn't you say you came here to be challenged?

KGC: it's NOT a question of who is on which side. And, as you may recall, Brian did tone his comments down. A lot.

Posted by: dog's eye view | February 7, 2008 11:40 AM

that's your view

"Because the Obama train has room for a lot more people!!"

Are you sure. The whole staff of MSNBC is taking up a lot of room. :)

Jamie: there's a world outside there beside MSNBC. Those who are tuned into MSNBC are a pretty small group.

I cannot speak to their coverage because I rarely watch it. (Caught some of it yesterday morning because hotel did not have C-Span 1, but hard to judge any bias because it was all tornadoes and just breaking on autopsy results on Heath Ledger's untimely death.)

Oh, and somebody snuck in a comment about Israel gearing up for another war in response to attacks from Gaza, but that passed without much notice. Tornadoes. Dead pretty people. You know.

Craig, interesting topic today!

tt

"The whole staff of MSNBC is taking up a lot of room. :)"
--Jamie
_____

hilarious.... 8>D

kc, I get your drift, and next week it will be something else. And who am I to excuse your or not? (Just kidding) We've all got our opinions - Brian may be irrascible, but that doesn't bother me, either, and if it doesn't bother you considering how vigorously you two have gone at each other, why should it?

eprof2 posted about all the issues that could be examined in light of what has been learned in this year's primary season.

A pretty big topic. In terms of the California experience, we have a hybrid in which decline to states can only vote in the Democratic primary. I think that is a mistake and either they can vote in any party or none.

I think the Democratic Party attempt to make more of the primaries mean something has worked. But in part because of the unique circumstances of so much Bush hatred. Initially I did not support a national primary but as this has worn on I may change by mind.

In California when we had an open primary too mcuh michief was made by the other side.

I was thinking about media coverage yesterday - in large part due to the obsession here that the media loves Obama and will do anything in its power to stop Hillary.

Listen, you can build a case for anyone about unfair media coverage.

Writing McCain off, dismissing Huckabee and Ron Paul as jokes (perhaps more accurately - not worthy of discussion).

But of course you want to hear how they have been unfair to Obama:

How bout reporting the delegate count to include super delegates even though they can change their mind anytime (just like the voters! - and we certainly don't hand out delegates based on polls), calling him "weak" and saying he would have no chance unless he started going after Hillary, and I won't even go into the many times when they have repeated the ignorant, baseless and vicious rumours that have been passed around.

Also - it is this media frenzy that allows Hillary to play the expectations game. I don't think anyone from the Obama camp was predicting this thing would be over Super Tuesday.

The media attention is also allowing Mr. Penn to claim that the presumptive nominee and entrenched candidate is the underdog. Talk about a sophist - sometimes I think that guy does more harm than good for the Clinton campaign.

The media over-reacts to everything and I will no doubt admit there are plenty in the media that either don't like Hillary or have an ax to grind with her.

To be an effective candidate - you have to do well in the press - not just complaint about it. After the swoon created by Iowa - the media ran right back to Clinton after New Hampshire.

It's the boiling a frog syndrome.

Maybe Patsi can provide the recipe."

So much for civility, huh?

Pogo
Don't tell him but I think Brian is great. He puts his whole heart into what he believes.

Gordo...

Cut the crap...lol

It's bad enough the Patriots lost last week. I don't need the visions of Zbignew in my head in any capacity.

It's even worse that any time I watch morning Joe, I spend the time wondering how she and Joe have been able to hide their affair from the general public...

Then I wonder which female MSNBC anchor would be undressed first if Bill Clinton walked through and snapped his fingers...

Then I wonder if you sent Bill Clinton and Barack Obama out for a weekend together, who could pull more woman, a la the epic Sam Malone vs. Henri battle on Cheers...

Jamie:

That is the whole point. I know everyone hates the MSNBC staff - but you certainly cannot argue it is not a diverse group. Mica, Joe, Chris, Keith, Rachel and Pat - talk about a rainbow coalition!!

KGC:

Absolutely I came here to be challenged and to challenge. And while I am certainly willing to trade insults - I don't think you have heard me cry uncle.

It's the boiling a frog syndrome. Maybe Patsi can provide the recipe."

So much for civility, huh?
====

that was to get your attention, Patsi. You are too intelligent for some of the mean stuff you put up.

I have no quarrel with you and love your recipes (still untried but look great) and stories about your professional life and family.

But you are a flamethrower too sometimes. Just trying to get you to wonder why others might think that.

yep, jamie, the last coach was just too crowded - I had to wait for the next train.

dog, I was a committed MSNBC addict - I tolerated teh almost incessant Hillary bashing and even watched Tucker (how's that for deranged?) but have begun watching much more CNN lately as MSNBC has become so strongly in the Obama camp - I get enough Obama rah-rah from his commercials and don't need to get it from the BONBC commentators. I do still watch Keith and Dan - and whatever Craig is on - the Go Big O spin isn't as bad on their shows.

I still want to know who boils frogs? lol Can't they hop out of the pot?

KC - consider it our secret. LOL

Patsi: I could have worded that better than calling you a flamethrower! Apologies there. My coffee for an edit button.