A Primary Challenge: Win by Losing, Lose by Winning, or Win by WINNING

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The Democratic presidential rivals have played so many head fakes and other gambits to lower expectations for their performance in today’s Wisconsin primary that we might have to decide on a winner the old fashioned way – give it to the one with the most votes.

Ah, if it were that easy. Will the perceived winner be the one with the most popular votes or the most delegates? Of course, if either Hillary Rodham Clinton or Barack Obama decisively wins both categories it would be easy to pick a victor, right?

Well, sort of. The Clinton camp will still lay a claim on being the perceived winner if she loses by less than expected – whatever that is. Obama’s team has also made an effort in this regard, repeatedly noting that he is at a disadvantage because Wisconsin’s blue collar demographics favor Clinton.

Maybe we should try averaging each candidate’s percentage of the popular vote and percentage of the delegate count for a winning score. Or just give up in a tight race, declare a tie and move on.

 

    Comments

  1. Feb. 18, 2008, 8:34PM
    Clinton backers may find an alternative named McCain

    By FROMA HARROP

    Despite the hard contest between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, party leaders keep telling Democratic-leaning voters that they have two good candidates. They are right, but one of them may well be a Republican.

    Far from the pumped-up Obama rallies, centrists who voted for John Kerry last time now say they are considering John McCain — especially if the Democrat is the vaporous Obama. At least that's what many are telling me — and I'm telling myself.

    One friend said he'd vote for the New York senator, and if she's not the candidate, then McCain. When I reminded him that he doesn't like Hillary, he shrugged. Another acquaintance e-mailed, "Hillary is to me extremely unlikable, but I do not regard likability as a qualification."


    The rest of the article is here:

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/5550837.html

    Posted by: bowmanc | February 19, 2008 6:11 AM

  2. Craig Crawford on Obama & Substance

    In “Yes We Can WHAT?,” Craig Crawford writes at his CQPolitics blog today:

    http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/18/craig-crawford-on-obama-substance/


    Posted by: GORDO | February 19, 2008 7:05 AM

  3. Morning all,

    "Lets get this one over with and move" I say.

    Simply, these two are just too close to be able to safely predict anything.

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 7:07 AM

  4. Holy !@#$

    Fiedl Stepping down? To Raul the brother.

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 7:10 AM

  5. Michelle Obama is for the first time in her adult life proud of her Country....BECAUSE WE are Hunger for CHANGE.... ok...THIS COULD BE THE FIRST LADY saying this...AMERICANS ARE HUNGER FOR FOOD, JOBS, SHELTER, HEALTH CARE.............JUST A FEW MORE REASONS TO VOTE FOR THE PERSON WHO CAN SOLVE THESE ISSUES...HILLARY will get these problems and more done. SHE HAS LIVED HER WORDS..WITH WHAT AMERICANS CALL ACTIONS!!

    Posted by: Tan | February 19, 2008 7:14 AM

  6. Michelle Obama said,

    For the First Time in my life I am REALLY Proud of my country."

    So do you think a black woman who is a brilliant civil right lawyer has been proud of the civil rights and moves forward that was made for her in the 60's?

    She said "REALLY" proud of the american population getting involved with this process. .....Like YOU!!

    ;0)

    Don't add anthing more then whats there...all I'm sayin.

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 7:20 AM

  7. capital letters are so obnoxious it causes me to suspect that Tan is an obama operative......

    Posted by: sturgeone | February 19, 2008 7:21 AM

  8. WOW! And now Mousarif....what a news cycle!

    Pakistan celebrates a final end to military rule — but what next?

    Jeremy Page in Lahore and Zahid Hussain in Islamabad
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article3387244.ece
    President Musharraf’s supporters conceded defeat last night in a landmark parliamentary election that could seal his political fate and resurrect democracy in Pakistan after eight years of military rule

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 7:22 AM

  9. Morning Sturg!

    Don't blame Obama. Blame being demonstrative. ;0)

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 7:24 AM

  10. Change of leadership in Pakistan.....Now here is where we should be turning our heads for once.

    The country is on the brink of something. Lets hope its good for the country. Let's hope Mousharraf doesn't call for Marshall law and take over the government again.

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 7:29 AM

  11. Hello Sheila.....top of the marnin' to ya......

    Posted by: sturgeone | February 19, 2008 7:30 AM

  12. Brain is mad at Bill Clinton because he can't get married? A guy I went to high school with and who loves in New York , went to Canada a few years ago and got married to his partner. He lives in NY again , but he is married now. But , look at it this way Brian , if you got married , you'd have to spend the rest of your life with the same person! I never thought Colin Powell was a bad guy , but I think a lot of black people didn't like the fact that he was part of the Bush administration. Don't know how they feel about him now. Personally , I was happy to see him leave Bush. Since Bush never really listened to him anyway. We are getting hammered with snow here. Been snowing all night again. Al schools are closed again.

    Posted by: Corey Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 7:32 AM

  13. *All schools* Al schools are open today. LOL!

    Posted by: Corey Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 7:33 AM

  14. Sheila.....ha.....as I pointed out yesterday....it's a case of if you set your wick too high, all you do is soot up the chimney......

    Posted by: sturgeone, the singing wall plaque | February 19, 2008 7:35 AM

  15. The Obama campaign has a lot invested in words. Saying what you mean and meaning what you say should be a no brainer.

    Posted by: max | February 19, 2008 7:40 AM

  16. http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/politics/video/x3xl3w_voting-and-you_politics

    Vote , it's the least you can do! I posted this the other night , but it's worth another posting. It's all about America and voting.

    Posted by: Corey Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 7:40 AM

  17. bowman - And that is exactly where I stand. I can not, in good conscience, vote for someone who talks a good game, but who tried very hard to not have much of a voting record.

    I will vote for McCain if Obak is the Dem nom for the gen'l...

    ...but today, I vote for Hillary at Barbara Bush Middle School. (Early voting begins in Texas today.)

    Vote early & vote often y'all!

    Posted by: blueINdallas | February 19, 2008 7:53 AM

  18. Vote early & vote often

    the immortal woids of another famous chicago politician......Mayor Richard Daley

    Posted by: sturgeone | February 19, 2008 7:56 AM

  19. Dunkin' Donuts versus Starbucks

    The battle is about to be joined between Dunkin' Donuts and Starbucks and, as a donut connoisseur, I hope the grand scheme of the East Coast fast-food chain goes as stale as a three-day-old cruller.

    Seattle Post-Intelligencer reporter Craig Harris detailed the Dunkin' Donuts game plan in a report filed from Las Vegas


    http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/davidhorsey/archives/131998.asp

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 8:01 AM

  20. Craig,
    How about just counting the democratic votes?
    In fact, on Super Tuesday, 295,952 more primary voters cast their ballots for Hillary Clinton than for Obama, yet somehow neither the Obama campaign, nor the media, was paying much attention to Clinton’s lead in the popular vote. If we include all the states that held primaries before Super Tuesday (NH, SC, MI, FL) Clinton was up by 468,024 votes—that was 2.51% of the total votes cast. But talking about that number was not a media priority either.
    http://www.taylormarsh.com/
    Note: See the chart with the data used in this article, which includes explanatory notes, which can also be found at Paul Lukasiak's website.

    Posted by: Linda~in~Wisconsin | February 19, 2008 8:03 AM

  21. Good morning 8)

    Posted by: LushIsLinda Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 8:05 AM

  22. max, it's the interpretation of those words that gets people all riled up.

    sturge, you have a wall plaque that sings? or does it singe? and who is it voting for?

    Posted by: colleen | February 19, 2008 8:12 AM

  23. all I need to know about McCain is that he's endorsed by GHWB and that thousand words worth of picture of him and GWB after what Rove did to him in SC 2000.

    p'tui

    Posted by: sturgeone | February 19, 2008 8:12 AM

  24. it sings so hot it singes.....and it is voting Democratic, all the way.................

    Posted by: sturgeone | February 19, 2008 8:14 AM

  25. Good Morning Warren,,

    I'm a Chef, but was ceremoniously Labled a Holier Than Thou Nun like creature around here the other day and so.....I adopted the Mantel.

    I think I like it too ;0)

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 8:19 AM

  26. I have turned on CNN this morning. They seem to criticize all the candidates equally. 8)

    Posted by: LushIsLinda Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 8:20 AM

  27. mornin' all.

    blue, if you were anywhere but Texas, I would be yelling at you. Since you are where you are, a vote for McCain won't change anything in Nov., so knock yyourself out. I, for one, couldn't vote for McCain under any circumstances. He's a nasty warmongering bastard who's now picked up the GHWB "No new taxes" pledge. No thank you - we've had his like before (read, GWB) and I didn't like it then and don't want it again.

    It will be interesting to see what in the hell Dumya does in response to the Cuban and Pakistani government changes - the idiot was babbling about the US helping the Cuban people move to a democracy - right - we have such great credibility in Cuba and such influence within the Cuban government. We don't trade with them, we can't go there wearing anything other than an orange jumpsuit, we talk about their leader of 50 years as if he has leprosy and our foreign policy is headed up by a woman whose world view is soooo cold war. Yes, we will have a lot to say about the shape of Cub's future. Putz.

    And of course, because of Iraq, we are in no position to provide the military support that Afghanistan could probably use to settle the fuck the country down if the Musharraf supporters (read, armed forces) push back.

    Sturg, is your wall plaque one of those Billy Bass plaques?

    So anyone think Obama sweeps both WI & HI with more than 55% of the vote? Anything less and I'd say whatever victory he has is Phyrric.

    Oh, and She, love the new moniker.

    Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 8:32 AM

  28. Good Morning Pogo!


    And now that the mantel has been thrown on my shoulders, I will wear it with pride!

    Yes, it will be interesting to see. I for one am holding my breath because CAN this Adminstration take and opportunity like Castro's resignation and make some in roads???? NO WAY. They are stuck in the cold war. Even Kennedy would have had enough and made trade relations with that little country.

    As far as Pakistan. The next 24 hours are crucial. Can this new goverment actually take over?.... maybe turn over Bin laden? We'll see.


    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 8:39 AM

  29. My "word for the day"...phyrric

    live and learn... 8D

    Posted by: LushIsLinda Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 8:41 AM

  30. "How many times do we have to say this? "Fired up and ready to go" began with the NAACP in South Carolina. Obama didn't write this line."

    http://www.taylormarsh.com/

    Posted by: GORDO | February 19, 2008 8:48 AM

  31. Luscious,

    It's good to expand the vocabulary, but it's better to learn it as "pyrrhic"

    Posted by: EdVB Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 8:53 AM

  32. just watched the link GORDO posted

    lots of BHO footage...

    I need to get some water...I feel like I am going to faint!!! 8D

    Posted by: LushIsLinda Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 8:54 AM

  33. Wow,I am REALLY glad that this is all coming out about Obama before it was too late- He is NOT original, and he has been stealing lots of lines without giving credit-

    "Hello Iowa (New Hampshire, Wisconsin" (I have heard him say this one a lot- did he think we were suckers??)
    "I am running for president of the United States"
    "I would appreciate your vote"
    "We have got to get out of Iraq"
    "Thanks for your support"

    Hillary has said all these things too and he never gave her credit. I bet it is because she is a woman!
    You can read about it on the only site that dares tell the truth- www.taylormarsh.com

    Posted by: Kathy | February 19, 2008 8:55 AM

  34. What's the latest WI poll numbers being reported by the networks this morning?

    Posted by: vadaryl Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 8:59 AM

  35. BTW, ARG's latest WI poll has Obama up by 10 - the poll released Sunday must have been a sampling anomaly. Damn.

    Here's a link to the table that Paul Lukasiak's column (halfway down the scroll bar in Linda's comment, above) at Taylor Marsh's site is based on showing the popular vote in the primaries and caucuses up to now. There is a reason I think the electoral college and gerrymandered congressional districtsare anti-democratic - this and the '00 elections reflect that reason.

    http://www.glcq.com/table.htm

    Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 8:59 AM

  36. Dexter

    "Alice Cooper was on with Craig Ferguson . He said he concluded a 70-city tour in Moscow. "

    I know it's a large city, but have they divided it up into blocks? :-)

    Posted by: Jamie | February 19, 2008 9:00 AM

  37. Let's argue about something really important fried chicken, Yesterday we drove alllllll the way over to Napa to eat at one of Thomas Keller's restaurants (the least expensive of the Keller empire) Ad Hoc. Monday is fried chicken night. The wait staff said the secret to the chicken was thirty hours of brining and to stop the frying five minutes before the chicken was done and to let it finish cooking off the stove. The crust is a buttermilk dip with a lightflouring and herbs. It's good and it was all you can eat. It was good -it might be the best I've ever had.

    We drank Shiner Bock in honor of the Texas primary.
    It was great and even though there were two Clinton supporters, One Obama and one who just wants Bush gone we didn't have one bad fight. No one is the group is planning on voting for anyone but a Democrat.

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | February 19, 2008 9:00 AM

  38. "Anything less and I'd say whatever victory he has is Phyrric."
    --pogo

    you know I googled "phyrric" and a definition came up...I didn't notice the spelling was off.


    Posted by: LushIsLinda Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 9:01 AM

  39. Kathrine,

    Sounds like the perfect evening! I'm jealous. Keller is one of my heroes!

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 9:04 AM

  40. Obama told his audience that because some folks had the courage to “march across a bridge” in Selma, Ala., his mother, a white woman from Kansas, and his father, a black Muslim from Africa, took heart. It gave them the courage to get married and have a child. The problem with that characterization is that Barack Obama, Jr., was born Aug. 4, 1961, while the first of three marches across that bridge in Selma didn’t occur until March 7, 1965, almost four years after Obama was born.
    http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=19959&keywords=marches#continueA

    Posted by: Revising History | February 19, 2008 9:04 AM

  41. Up by 10, these numbers are all over the place. Can't believe any of them

    Posted by: vadaryl Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 9:05 AM

  42. How about this Kate,

    2nd Annual Molly (Ivins) Award Seeks Entries

    By E&P Staff

    Published: February 18, 2008 1:25 PM ET

    NEW YORK The second annual Molly, a national journalism prize honoring the memory of the late columnist/author/gadfly Molly Ivins, will be awarded on June 12, 2008, at a dinner in Austin, Texas.

    The Molly (the first one was given to Ivins herself) will be awarded "for an article or series of up to four short, related articles or columns appearing in a U.S.-based publication in print or as part of an online magazine, telling the stories that need telling, challenging conventional wisdom, focusing on civil liberties and/or social justice, and embodying the intelligence, deep thinking and passionate wit that marked Molly's work," the call for entries reads. Work must have been published in 2007.

    First prize is a $5,000 cash award, plus the MOLLY, "a statuette of Molly Ivins in regalia as the Statue of Liberty. Two $1,000 honorable mention prizes will also be awarded. A group of nationally prominent journalists will serve as final judges.

    "Complete guidelines for submitting an entry available online. For information on attending the awards luncheon, or to contribute to the MOLLY prize fund, please contact mollyaward@texasobserver.org, or call 512-477-0746."

    Honorary co-chairs for the dinner are Ellen Goodman and Calvin Trillin. Helen Thomas will be our keynote speaker.

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 9:05 AM

  43. Lush, I just realized I misspelled your word for the day, and see that Ed caught it (thanks) - it is actually Pyrrhic. Sorry for the confusion, but it's not from my native tongue.

    Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 9:07 AM

  44. ROFL Revising History ROFL

    I'm e-mailing this to Dan Abrams - maybe he'll put it on his blunders section.

    KGC - we have a broasted chicken place near us that we just love - it looks like fried chicken...tastes like fried chicken...but it's broasted...supposed to be healthier...i don't know but it's good.

    Posted by: Wendy! Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 9:07 AM

  45. Good idea , KGC. A friendly fried chicken dinner to end all the fighting here. Now....if we only knew someone who was a chef.....

    Posted by: Corey Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 9:08 AM

  46. Sheila

    We had a Keller day. We stopped for a drink a Bouchon and also bought stuff at the bakery.
    It really was good. Ad Hoc is great because it's only fifty dollars for dinner. We had potato pave which I had never even heard of --it was good, Come on down I would go again.

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | February 19, 2008 9:09 AM

  47. "As far as Pakistan. The next 24 hours are crucial."

    On this we are in agreement, Sheila the cooking Nun. :)

    Where is the press on this crisis? Pakistan has been a pressure cooker for years, and nobody seems to pay any real attention. If that country is taken over by radicals, and it very well could be, we're looking at a hard slog.

    Posted by: Patsi | February 19, 2008 9:09 AM

  48. No Way buddy! My Day off..... ;0)

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 9:09 AM

  49. I'll give you this though.

    If we can ever come together on where the reunion should be this time, Then I'll borrow a kitchen and make a meal for all of you!

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 9:10 AM

  50. Wendy
    Broasted chicken
    I remember that from traveling in Virginai --it's that kind of like pressure frying I think. I have been trying to remember where I had great fried chicken before and that would certainly be on the list. There is a place around here called Mom's Apple Pie and she used to have fried chicken (actually broasted) and it was pretty good. Thanks for reminding me.

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | February 19, 2008 9:12 AM

  51. Sheila

    What color should be paint the mantel on your shoulders and will a little bric a brac help decorate? You will want to look really pretty when Wyatt Earp shows up to establish marshall law.

    You are so brilliant and have such a huge vocabulary, that I absolutely delight in the totally unintentional humor.

    Posted by: Jamie | February 19, 2008 9:13 AM

  52. it's OK, pogo 8)

    I am only going to try to use it in a sentence(sometime) today...I am sure I will mispronounce it, anyway 8D

    Posted by: LushIsLinda Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 9:14 AM

  53. Patsi,

    Believe it or not, the only place I saw an article was HuffPo.....like waiting for an important annoucement and not having cable.

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 9:14 AM

  54. Jamie,

    You so very intelliegent. I wasn't sure anyone would get it and I DID look it up so that I would use the right spelling!

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 9:16 AM

  55. Afterall,

    An ordinary cloak is not good enough for such an important label.... ;0)

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 9:17 AM

  56. Sheila
    Thanks so much for posting this.
    NEW YORK The second annual Molly, a national journalism prize honoring the memory of the late columnist/author/gadfly Molly Ivins, will be awarded on June 12, 2008, at a dinner in Austin, Texas

    Even the judges are great.

    I wish I could go. What would be better. And in Austin.
    I could eat myself into a stupor. bbq, tex mex ---


    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | February 19, 2008 9:17 AM

  57. LiL

    "They seem to criticize all the candidates equally. 8)"

    I lasted about ten minutes on MSNBC this morning. Joe was so totally into Clinton bashing that I found myself wondering why he didn't just send a gang of thugs over to finish her off. At least that way she could have had a dirge played under her picture. Mika was so "yes master" chirpy it was nauseating.

    (Yes Craig I put it on the MSNBC blog)

    Anyway, switched to CNN to hear what was actually happening in the country as well as an almost balanced coverage of the campaigns.

    Posted by: Jamie | February 19, 2008 9:17 AM

  58. vadaryl, yeah, the WI polls are all over the place. That's why I arbitrarily asked abouth a 5% margin - and btw, I mean in popular vote. Given the overall popular vote margin in Clinton's favor at this point and her even larger popular vote margin in purple states, I think her argument to the superdelegates is at least as compelling as Obama's with his pledged delegate margin.

    Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 9:18 AM

  59. Sheila, that makes it even better. Word play always makes me laugh and that was classic.

    Posted by: Jamie | February 19, 2008 9:20 AM

  60. Jamie

    I know Craig has posted the MSNBC addy, but, if it is not too much trouble, would you mind posting it again?

    Posted by: LushIsLinda Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 9:24 AM

  61. Jamie
    I think some of your writing would qualify for entry into the Molly Ivins contest.

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | February 19, 2008 9:26 AM

  62. I've given up on the polls - I've taken to reading the Huffpostrology - it's more accurate and meaningful than the polls.

    I say it's close in WI and a blow out in HI (Obama likely wins both but keeping my fingers crossed that it's a split decision - WI in Hillary column and Hi in Obama's)

    Then Hillary can campaign in TX w/o being criticized.

    Posted by: Wendy! Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 9:27 AM

  63. KC & Wendy!, I got hooked on broasted chicken a couple years ago when Arrowhead market at Deep Creek Lake, MD started selling it - they make it in the store and it's ready at about 11:00. (I even bought one of those Ron Popiel "Set it and forget it" broasters, which does a great job, btw, but is certainly not very cost effective) It is wonderful to get one hot out of the broaster, dripping with chicken fat and get all messy eating it. But it has not made me lose my love for good fried chicken - which may be understandable given my southern heritage and the fact that my dear maternal grandmother used to make the best fried chicken inthe world, and my mother came in a close second and I must have eaten a ton of it over my childhood.

    And thanks for the revising history link, revising history. They call that lying where I'm from.

    Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 9:28 AM

  64. thank you, KGC

    Posted by: LushIsLinda Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 9:28 AM

  65. So here's why Obama has started dissing the superdelegates so early.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-freedman/dncappointed-superdelega_b_87108.html

    Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 9:32 AM

  66. I just saw one poll that has Obama up by 13. How can one go from down by 6 to up by 13 in one day. Something is fishey

    Posted by: vadaryl Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 9:36 AM

  67. Also yesterday was not one of his best days either

    Posted by: vadaryl Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 9:37 AM

  68. Good Morning All,

    Sheila, I love the DD vs Starbucks info...I don't see how Dunkin Donuts loses...they have better and less expensive coffee and those donuts are awesome...

    Wendy, where do you live? I love the idea of the broasted chicken...here in the chicken fried nation, the concept of grilled is foreign to most... can you find out if they will pack and ship? My roasting skills haven't been up to snuff lately...

    Posted by: Bear Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 9:38 AM

  69. I could see a mistake made, but the down by six was reported all weekend wrong. What gives?

    Posted by: vadaryl Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 9:39 AM

  70. I could see a mistake made, but the down by six was reported all weekend long. What gives?

    Posted by: vadaryl Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 9:40 AM

  71. Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | February 19, 2008 9:41 AM

  72. This is a random question...what ever happened to Ken Mehlman since he stepped down as the head of the RNC? I am wondering because besides all of the rumors that he was gay and living with a child molester, I thought he did a decent job trying to broaden his party's membership. Plus he was a classmates of Obama's at Harvard.

    Posted by: Bear Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 9:42 AM

  73. wow, deep fried in a pressure cooker....hmm

    Posted by: Bear Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 9:43 AM

  74. KGC,

    If I get a heart attack from trying this, it's my hope I my grease soaked fingers don't slip of the phone buttons while I dial 911...lol

    Do I have to pay Rudy a royalty for typing 911?

    Posted by: Bear Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 9:45 AM

  75. Morning Bear,

    I'm with you and the COFFEE. Dunken Donuts Coffee is a superior brand.

    Listen, Gorwing up Seattle, I am most of my Kitsap County residents didn't take kindly tot he bitter after taste of Star Bucks. There is far better coffee in the US and all of the small brewers in Washington state prove it.

    I am sure Star Bucks is not the reason Dunkin Donuts didn't make it. It was the little coffee places with "Mud House coffee, and or many other brands.

    It was also the Swedish Penchant for some....fabuloso bakeries in the region.....YUMMY!

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 9:46 AM

  76. Damn. The chicken they sell around here as broasted...isn't. It's just roasted, I guess. (But it's a hell of a lot better than KFC!!!!)

    Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 9:46 AM

  77. Ken Mehlman the chinless wonder is currently a partner at the Washington law firm of Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP.
    http://www.akingump.com/

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | February 19, 2008 9:46 AM

  78. Obama’s Books: Composite Characters, False Memories »

    "People here have inquired about the accuracy of the books written by Barack Obama. Hundreds of thousands of people have read these books, and probably believe every word. However, several newspapers have verified that Obama admitted that he used composite characters in the books. "

    http://noquarterusa.net/blog/

    Posted by: GORDO | February 19, 2008 9:46 AM

  79. Fried chicken sounds good, but I've got a pot of ham and lima beans simmering on the stove. Thinking about making a pan of cornbread....

    Posted by: Patsi | February 19, 2008 9:47 AM

  80. I'm so glad to see so many who haven't fallen for the Starbucks marketing gizmo. We don't have DD here (I became an addict in Maine) - but we have PaneraBread - which has much better coffee than Starbucks, at about 65% of the price.

    Bear, I hate to say it, but KFC is a chicken broaster.

    Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 9:50 AM

  81. Bear said

    If I get a heart attack from trying this, it's my hope I my grease soaked fingers don't slip of the phone buttons while I dial 911...lol

    I think you are safe from the Rudy tax at this point. Feel free to shout 9/11 without fear.

    If you do try home broasting let me know I have always been afraid to try because of the threat of grease fire and pressure cooker explosions.

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | February 19, 2008 9:51 AM

  82. Patsi, got enough for 2? You make cornbread I'll check the flight schedules.

    Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 9:52 AM

  83. Drat

    CRaig, If you are reading, I forgot about multiple links. Please release post from overlinked prison. I don't want to go back and find them all if I can avoid it.

    Posted by: Jamie | February 19, 2008 9:52 AM

  84. Oh Screw Wisconsin and Hawaii!!!

    Lets have a picnic!

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 9:52 AM

  85. I'll even leave the broasting to you guys. I'm tired of it, roast, broast, fry, I've done it a lot this year.

    I'll bring some salsa, quacamole, Enchilladas, and some Pibil....You love it!

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 9:55 AM

  86. KGC

    "Molly Ivins contest" Thank you for the compliment, but Molly had more talent in her pinky than I will ever hope to have. I just loved her and right now wish I had her expertise at taking down the overpuffed, know it all, self important SOBs of the world found on TV

    Posted by: Jamie | February 19, 2008 9:57 AM

  87. patsi
    As far as Pakistan. The next 24 hours are crucial."

    On this we are in agreement, Sheila the cooking Nun. :)

    Where is the press on this crisis? Pakistan has been a pressure cooker for years, and nobody seems to pay any real attention. If that country is taken over by radicals, and it very well could be, we're looking at a hard slog.

    if it dosnt favor obama the press dosnt report it ....impotant news isnt what they want they want to bury hillary thats their only goal

    Posted by: zumper | February 19, 2008 9:58 AM

  88. Count me in for deviled eggs and potato salad
    and I have done a credible job on the Austin Leslie version of fried chicken...so some of that too.

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | February 19, 2008 9:58 AM

  89. Jamie
    Well think about it. Read the rules. Everyone starts somewhere. I think some of your posts qualify. Can't hurt to try.

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | February 19, 2008 10:00 AM

  90. well.... I don't have a southern bone in my body and yet....... I LOVE fried chicken!
    I worked part time at a little store years ago while going to college that made broasted chicken.... it's basically deep fried in pressure cookers....

    love Dunkin Donuts coffee too..... but I have to admit..... I'm no connoisseur of coffee..... didn't start drinking it until the age of 30....

    Craig.... you sound as sick of all the spin about the Dem race as I am....
    for the moment.... I'd much rather watch Orangutan Island than any cable news....

    and for NPR listeners..... Diane Rehm's first hour is about the election in Pakistan..... I hunger for news on actual issues...... I feel like the horserace is about beating a horse until it's good and dead at this point....

    Posted by: RebelliousRenee | February 19, 2008 10:00 AM

  91. So Great!

    CRAIG! We're coming over to raid your house and have a party, get the Jacuzzi ready! But be careful..... ;0)

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 10:01 AM

  92. I hope Jim doesn't read this blog, today. I have him convinced that people really don't cook anymore!! 8D

    Posted by: LushIsLinda Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 10:03 AM

  93. Pogo and Patsi

    Make that dinner for three. Everytime I bring up lima beans and ham as cooked by all my wonderful Oklahoma relatives, my son and grandson act as if I'm trying to poison them.

    Posted by: Jamie | February 19, 2008 10:03 AM

  94. Sheila....
    a reunion.....
    I'm going to Las Vegas in June..... ;0)

    Posted by: RebelliousRenee | February 19, 2008 10:05 AM

  95. New York times Q&A on Pakistan’s Election

    In the wake of Monday’s parliamentary election in Pakistan, correspondents covering the vote for The Times will answer questions from readers this week. To submit a question, please write to us using the comments field below.
    Q. Assuming the the People’s Party in fact wins about 120 seats, who is likely to emerge as prime minister? Does it have leaders beyond Benazir Bhutto’s widower and and 19 year old son who can effectively lead a parliamentary majority? Thanks. — Jim Halpert

    http://questions.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/18/qa-on-the-pakistani-election/?8dpc

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 10:06 AM

  96. KGC,

    I will let you know how it works out...my grill has a side burner so I will try it outside just to be safe...I am a bit leery about pressurizing grease, but to get chicken tasting like that, I'll risk life and limb...

    Pogo, I am a huge KFC fan...I was stoked when I found one in SW Fort Worth that still had Kentucky Fried Chicken as the store name...

    Which reminds me...I've been to restaurants that do a pecan butter to serve with fresh corn bread...any ideas how to make that?

    Posted by: Bear Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 10:07 AM

  97. Question for Pogo and Jamie....what all seasonings do you use in H&B?

    Posted by: Patsi | February 19, 2008 10:07 AM

  98. Pakistan--I suspect that the potential for the military, not Pervez Musharraf per se, imposing martial law may well 'encourage' a coalition government by the two major factions, neither of which has a majority.

    Posted by: Flatus Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 10:07 AM

  99. "Oh Screw Wisconsin and Hawaii!!!"

    Goodness Sheila that would be a busy night.

    Besides I'm getting a bit old for such riotous behavior.

    When I was a child, my mother would make us some kind of fried meat sandwitch. Sometimes it was nothing more than fatback, as we were very poor. We would go out in the pasture to where the wood pile was kept, play in our forts and have our picnics.

    Jack

    Posted by: whskyjack | February 19, 2008 10:07 AM

  100. Thank god there is political stability in Pakistan because I would hate to see what power hungry nutbags would do with access to nukes...

    Posted by: Bear Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 10:08 AM

  101. On You Tube there are several "Ballad of Molly Ivins" entries for another contest

    http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Ballad+of+Molly+Ivins&search_type=

    I rather like "Raise More Hell"

    Posted by: Jamie | February 19, 2008 10:10 AM

  102. Bear:

    I'm in CA. I will find out about shipping...my guess off the top of my head is no - while the food is great the customer services is lousy - can barely get them to sell you chicken if you walk up and ask for it - I have a feeling they're going to laugh at me about the shipping idea - but I'm going to ask the next time we go none the less.

    Posted by: Wendy! Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 10:11 AM

  103. Bear,
    Not sure if this is the type you are looking for. But its a good one! My jewish boss likes it for his bagels


    Pecan Butter Spread

    Yield: 1 1/2 cups

    1/4 c Chopped pecans
    2 tb Peanut oil
    8 oz Brie cheese
    3 oz Cream cheese; softened
    2 tb Sherry
    1/4 ts Salt
    Roasted pecans; for garnish

    Process nuts and oil until smooth. Remove rind
    from Brie, add along with remaining ingredients.
    Process until smooth. Store airtight in
    refrigerator; serve at room temperature. Garnish
    with roasted pecans, if desired.

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 10:12 AM

  104. Bear

    Glad you are being safe. Would hate to see you on youtube.

    I think pecan butter is just like peanut butter

    http://www.futtersnutbutters.com/pecan.html

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | February 19, 2008 10:12 AM

  105. a few tips on home broasting

    http://www.ochef.com/374.htm

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | February 19, 2008 10:16 AM

  106. Spices for Lima Beans vary, but I'm usually reaching for the thyme, basil, salt and pepper plus using fresh onion and garlic in the preparation. In a pinch the world revolves around Lawries. Not as great, but really , how can you ruin a lima bean.

    Sometimes substitute the big blond beans - can't think of what they are called in the middle of my latest senior moment. :-)

    Posted by: Jamie | February 19, 2008 10:19 AM

  107. Patsi, I'm pretty simple when it comes to ham & beans - salt, pepper , a dash of cayenne or Tabasco, onion, and if I'm feeling really frisky, I'll throw a couple shakes of Mrs. Dash (original) in. I mostly rely on the ham to do the seasoning. Sheila or Jamie may have some better ideas.

    Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 10:20 AM

  108. Brian, if you are pissed because you can't get married in the states ... well, move to Massachusetts. I hear it's a nice place with a particular Democratic party standard bearer that you particularly admire. Or you could follow Corey's advice and move to Canada, or to be especially rad, move to The Netherlands, Spain, or Belgium... Not all countries are so fricken obsessed about whom people love. But I suspect you know that.

    Posted by: EuroTom Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 10:22 AM

  109. While I'm wondering down memory lane

    My contribution to the picnic

    Strwberry shortcake Ozarks style.
    Take biscuit dough roll it flat like you would pie dough and bake. Slice the strawberries add sugar. don't skimp on the the sugar for it will draw the liquid out of the berries spreading the flavor all through the dish.. Layer the berries and bread in a flat dish so the liquid will soak into the bread. Let it in the refridgerator for several hours.
    Serve with heavy cream, preferably from a Jersey cow you milked yourself.

    Jack

    Posted by: whskyjack | February 19, 2008 10:25 AM

  110. Oh well, my brain is not working any better today than yesterday. I hope you all will be able to read through all the typos and broken sentences

    Jack

    Posted by: whskyjack | February 19, 2008 10:29 AM

  111. I tried to take a cooking class (where you can eventually get a Chef's Diploma) here in Belgium, but I just couldn't get it together. We had to work in teams and everyone spoke Dutch and I finally gave up.

    Posted by: EuroTom Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 10:30 AM

  112. Patsi, I'm pretty simple when it comes to ham & beans - salt, pepper , a dash of cayenne or Tabasco, onion, and if I'm feeling really frisky, I'll throw a couple shakes of Mrs. Dash (original) in. I mostly rely on the ham to do the seasoning. Sheila or Jamie may have some better ideas.

    Posted by: pogo | February 19, 2008 10:20 AM

    Nope I'm a purist. I let the fresh Garlic, Onion, and Carrot do the enhancements while the Ham Hock does the flavoring. Mor carrot than the rest makes for sweeter broth.

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 10:33 AM

  113. jamie, you talkin' about butter beans?

    Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 10:33 AM

  114. Jack!

    Join the brain fried crowd. Jamie and Sheila have already mentioned our aging problem for the day. You are in good company!

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 10:34 AM

  115. Bear

    here's a Fort Worth restaurant advertising broasted chicken
    http://www.duboisfortworth.com/Chicken.htm

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | February 19, 2008 10:34 AM

  116. Thank you Pogo.

    You saved me from that totally insane moment an hour after the fact when you are standing in the middle of the room and shout "Butter Beans!" while everyone looks at you as if you have lost your mind.

    Posted by: Jamie | February 19, 2008 10:39 AM

  117. I was just going through the New Yorker and came across a poem in which the last line reads, "Kiss the cat and you kiss the fleas. And That's the story of my life."

    (The Saws by Robert Pinsky, the New Yorker Feb 11 & 18, 2008, pg 128)

    Now, doesn't that totally apply to each of our remaining candidates!?!

    Posted by: Flatus Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 10:39 AM

  118. Jamie,

    BBC on Pakistan....interesting. So we have to see if the other two parties combine to a majority....and then see if Mousharraf takes that as a real threat and declares Marshall Law and become a dictator.....

    I think impeachment of Mousharraf will be difficult, but I applaud them if they try!

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 10:40 AM

  119. I thought Tweety seemed a little subdued on Morning Joe this AM. Why so blue?

    Posted by: Ally Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 10:41 AM

  120. Flatus, Thanks for the lead. I just read the whole poem.

    http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/poetry/2008/02/11/080211po_poem_pinsky

    Love the expression "Dead As A Door Nail" because as the poem says, it's used despite the fact that most people don't have a clue what it means".

    Posted by: Jamie | February 19, 2008 10:44 AM

  121. you're welcome, jamie. As you know, I live to serve.

    Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 10:45 AM

  122. Off to vote in the primary that doesn't count.

    Back soon.

    Posted by: Jamie | February 19, 2008 10:47 AM

  123. Linda and Pogo,

    Same wave length... ;0)

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 11:02 AM

  124. LiL

    Me knew. :-) It is one of Shakespeare's puns (most unrecognized today unless someone explains them). It is actually a triple word play. The Clinched unusable nail, the protective door, and the third meaning from sailing akin to "dead stop" and from the nails used on the crossbar used to "batten down the hatches" in a storm.

    IOW the character Cade was offering to make them really, really, not just merely, but most sincerely dead.

    Posted by: Jamie | February 19, 2008 11:15 AM

  125. G/S

    btw, rez dog. Saw your moniker over at harp & sword. Same rez dog?

    Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 11:20 AM

  126. Where are you, Craig? Why aren't you on the shows anymore, have you been giving your honest opinion again, and not staying on "mass media message?"
    I want to know you what you think of this Plagiarism? Shouldn't they concentrate on the fact that his "buddy" wants to give illegal immigrants everything they want in Mass.?

    Posted by: Ray | February 19, 2008 11:26 AM

  127. Pogo,

    Forgive me, But the only Harp & Sword I could find was a blog named Mistral Boy. Is that the one?

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 11:27 AM

  128. "CRaig, If you are reading, I forgot about multiple links. Please release post from overlinked prison. I don't want to go back and find them all if I can avoid it. --Posted by: Jamie"

    Jamie, your excellent guide to MSNBC comment boards is now free from overlink prison (note to all: our spam filter holds any comment with 3 or more links until i have a chance to look at it):

    http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/02/picking-primary-winners.html#comment-37596

    Ray, thanks for the concern, see Jamie's links above if you'd like to weigh in with MSNBC, i have no control over their booking decisions. i am just a simple pundit.

    Posted by: Craig Crawford Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 11:30 AM

  129. For those of you who drop in on my blog, you know that I do a meme every week called "Manic Monday". The wonderful human being who invented this fun bit of inspiration is Mo of I'ts A Blog Eat Blog World http://morgenfiles.blogspot.com/

    Today is Mo's birthday and event when he does something very very special called Morgepalooza. If you just want a good reason to smile today, pay him a visit.

    Posted by: Jamie | February 19, 2008 11:32 AM

  130. Sheila, that's the one - musician/truffle chef. I met him here about 1 1/2 years ago, He's advised me onguitars and he makes incredibly good truffles, but they cost a ton to ship. He talked about opening a shop to make and sell them, but I don't think that ever happened. Pity.

    Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 11:38 AM

  131. In honor of all you Chicken Experts, I'm having buffalo wings and Blue Cheese Dressing for lunch. just seemed fitting. ;0)

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 11:41 AM

  132. top of the day peeps.

    Posted by: Brian In NYC Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 11:42 AM

  133. Pogo,

    Too bad. I'll have to link him and follow!

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 11:42 AM

  134. Butter milk is the only way to fry chicken, end of story.

    Posted by: Brian In NYC Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 11:43 AM

  135. brian''

    You missed a great morning. ;0)

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 11:43 AM

  136. Brian,

    Buttermilk is only part of the story, but its a great secret.

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 11:45 AM

  137. Sheila, it's an interesting blog. Tends to be all over the place and I'm an infrequent visitor.

    Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 11:48 AM

  138. Yes Sheila I saw, another Hillary supporter threw a hissy fit and says she is going to vote for McCain if she doesn't get her way. That should thrill Bin Laden, another 100 y/o of a America occupying an Arab nation, just the rational he needs to recruit more young people to his "cause".

    Posted by: Brian In NYC Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 11:50 AM

  139. Coming from examples of Brian and myself, I'm not surprised that a Chef is all over the place on his blog! ;0)

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 11:50 AM

  140. KGC,

    Thanks for that link...unfortunately, that restaurant was just called Fort Worth...it's in Dubois Pennsylvania...lol

    I just left a meeting with the local realtors association. Those who are Democrats were of the belief that Obama was too liberal to be president, was full of sh#t, and was a tanner version of W.

    I know we have seen that comparison here before, but I offer this question. Thanks to Molly Ivens and others, we could see the litany of failures W had prior to becoming president. Thus his reign, while disheartening, has been far from shocking.

    Is there anything in Obama's past that would lead us to a similar conclusion? Are there any abject failures we are missing?

    Posted by: Bear Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 12:03 PM

  141. Sheila,

    I highly recommend ranch dressing with your buffalo wings!

    Posted by: Bear Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 12:04 PM

  142. Thanks Bear, I love both ways actually!

    But in answer to your question....My opinion only.

    Obama is a very talented and creative individual. If he wasn't running for elected office, he would be a super star for just about everyone.

    The quote of this blog has been, 8 more years and we think he will be ready.

    So what if they bothered to stick the fork in and find out he's ready now?

    My point is, he's ready and THEY know it. Its just a matter of who is going to win the race. Any slight flucuation in the Force can bury a candidate.

    So we shall see. ;0)

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 12:11 PM

  143. Interesting article in Washington Post today regarding a conference call among some of Hillary's African American supporters after the Lewis possible flip. Some of them feel as if they are being threatened. Articles have been posted here about JJjrs tactics last week - looks like some are pushing back...good for them!!!

    "Palmer was among the more forceful voices, urging others on the call, as he put it yesterday, "to stand up and say why you're for Hillary Clinton in the face of adversity. We can't afford to be wishy-washy . . . Stand up. Fight. Advocate for your candidate. Don't capitulate. . . . Don't let nobody intimidate or threaten you. Just hold on.""

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/18/AR2008021802364.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR

    Posted by: Wendy! Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 12:11 PM

  144. Bear
    well that would be quite a drive
    Is Fort Worth near Ennis - there is a place called BK's that has broasted. I'm on the hunt for places near me too.

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | February 19, 2008 12:16 PM

  145. This is pretty much my fried chicken recipe, however if you like a crunchy skin I recommend using self rising flour. I have a large covered plastic container that I soak my chicken in, i turn the container over ever couple of hours while the chicken is marinating to insure an even distribution of the spices and insures every piece is well soaked. Also I'm not a fan of cooking fried chicken in cast iron, it holds heat too long and takes too long to heat up. I prefer using a stainless steel small stock pot it's much easier to regulate the heat. Also I don't use solid shortening I try to avoid anything hydrogenated. And if you don't have candy/fry thermometer get one, if you don't have one you can test the temp of the oil by dropping a pinch of flour in the oil and when it starts to fry the oil is the right temp. If your oil is too cold your chicken will be greasy, if it's too hot the skin will cook too quickly.


    1 (3 pound) fryer, cut into pieces
    2 cups buttermilk
    6 cloves garlic, smashed
    1 large onion, sliced
    1 cup chopped mixed fresh herbs (parsley, tarragon, thyme)
    1/2 teaspoon paprika
    1/2 teaspoon cayenne pepper
    2 cups flour
    1/4 teaspoon garlic salt
    1/4 teaspoon onion salt
    1/2 teaspoon cayenne pepper
    Salt and pepper
    3 cups solid vegetable shortening

    Soak chicken in buttermilk with garlic, onions, herbs, paprika, and cayenne pepper. Refrigerate overnight or at least 8 hours. Drain in colander, leaving some herbs on chicken. In a large paper grocery bag, mix flour with seasonings. Meanwhile, heat 3 cups shortening in cast iron pan until 350 degrees. Place chicken pieces in bag with flour and shake, let sit 1 minute, then shake again. Add chicken to hot pan and fry on 1 side for 20 minutes, then turn to finish.

    And folks the most important thing to remember when handling chicken, you can't wash your hands too often and you should clean all your surfaces with a bleach solution (no that's not a Hillary plug, god forbid (one for our side dnd). I keep a spray bottle of bleach solution in the kitchen to use for cleanup.

    Posted by: Brian In NYC Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 12:25 PM

  146. Brian,

    Your recipe would make Paula Dean proud...any suggestions on how to keep all of the flour coming off in the pan/fryolator?

    Posted by: Bear Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 12:30 PM

  147. pogo - I'm just sayin' that I hope Hil'ry is the Dem nom in November, otherwise, it's the devil I know vs the devil I can't quite pin down.

    Posted by: blueINdallas | February 19, 2008 12:30 PM

  148. Nope bear, you should expect a thick layer of "fry sludge" at the bottom of the pot when finished.

    Posted by: Brian In NYC Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 12:31 PM

  149. I'm going to be of the grid for a couple of days.
    MY mother , who has been in and out of the hospital with congestive heart failure, is being moved to a nursing home.
    I think the doctors have done all they can to help her. I've got to help my sisters with that and we are going to have to sell some of the farm to pay expenses.

    any body want 80 acres in the Missouri Ozarks with some great building site with beautiful views from on top of the bluff over looking Thomas creek..

    If it gets real bloody in here some one take pictures for me
    Any way see you all Thurday.


    Jack
    email
    whskyjack in care of yahoo

    Posted by: whskyjack | February 19, 2008 12:41 PM

  150. Blue,

    We can stand together against the Obama forces. :-)

    I probably wouldn't have been so strident about my support for Clinton if it weren't for the feeling that the media was actually meddling in the election to the point of violating one of the great acts of the American public: Their right to vote.

    I realize that when the nation was awash with a free written press, that there was slanted reporting that reflected the attitude of that particular newspaper. As we have consolidated newspapers, radio outlets, and television ownership, it has now reached the point of being dangerous to our freedom.

    If we were modeling in the manner of yellow press days, there would be a TV station that gave all of its reports about Obama a negative slant. We don't have a station like that, so the public turning to MSNBC are fed a line of propaganda that would make Pravda proud.

    Posted by: Jamie | February 19, 2008 12:41 PM

  151. Hope things go well moving your mom Jack.

    Posted by: Brian In NYC Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 12:47 PM

  152. Any new info on who is going to win tonight.

    Posted by: vadaryl Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 12:51 PM

  153. We'll be thinking of you, Jack, and look forward to seeing you back here on Thursday. Hope all goes well with your mom.

    Posted by: harborwoman | February 19, 2008 12:52 PM

  154. "MY mother , who has been in and out of the hospital with congestive heart failure, is being moved to a nursing home.
    I think the doctors have done all they can to help her."

    Jack - good luck - sending positive thoughts your way.

    Posted by: Wendy! Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 12:52 PM

  155. For Olbermann and general MSNBC comments there is a new blog called "The News Hole". Nothing like being accurate about where most of their coverage of the news resides.

    http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/02/18/678503.aspx?CommentPosted=true#commentmessage

    Posted by: Jamie | February 19, 2008 12:53 PM

  156. Jamie,

    While I am sympathetic with you plight, I wonder if the media has been harder on her because she has run a sub par campaign. Perhaps the scrutiny has changed the perception of the average person to a conclusion they wouldn't have reached on their own, but we are there nonetheless.

    It seems to me a major point of conflict here is that Obama doesn't offer enough details while Clinton does.

    In some cases, Clinton has gained votes in my area just on her No Child stance. I haven't a clue on Obama's position, but my teacher friends were hooked that Hillary is forcefully against that garbage...

    Posted by: Bear Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 12:53 PM

  157. How many times have we heard, I haven't a clue on Obama's position. How can this guy be polling in huge numbers with that going on. I just don't get it.

    Posted by: vadaryl Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 12:55 PM

  158. "We can stand together against the Obama forces. :-)"

    Jamie it's too bad you view Obama and his supporters as the enemy. I certainly don't see you, Hillary or her supporters as the enemy. In all candor it strikes me that a great many on here have over personalized Hillary's candidacy and take great personal offense at anyone who dares to run against. We simply feel Obama would make a better president, we're not trying to steal your dream.

    Posted by: Brian In NYC Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 12:58 PM

  159. Jack,

    Sorry to hear your news...may peace be with you and yours during this difficult time...

    Posted by: Bear Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 12:58 PM

  160. Brian,

    I don't view Obama as the "enemy". I view the reporting about Obama as the "enemy". If we were having an election where the coverage was balanced in its presentation of information about the candidates, you wouldn't hear a whimper out of me if Obama wins.

    What I find not only upsetting, but dangerous to the United States is the one-sided coverage that favors one candidate over another. This is the road you travel to a dictatorship.

    That may sound melodramatic, but I honestly believe it to be true. If the population only gets to hear what those in power want them to hear, then you can kiss freedom goodbye. Both Fox and MSNBC have crossed the line and even Fox has been more fair in its coverage of the campaign than MSNBC

    Posted by: Jamie | February 19, 2008 1:03 PM

  161. MSNBC got all caught up in the excitement and lost their focus.

    Posted by: vadaryl Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 1:05 PM

  162. Take care Jack. I know it will be a difficult time, but hope you and your sisters are well. Look forward to your return.

    Posted by: Jamie | February 19, 2008 1:05 PM

  163. jamie - Yep, "there's no news in the truth & no truth in the news."

    B'rye - I find your comment about over-personalizing to be quite laughable.

    Not a rabid Hil'ry supporter, just think she is the best option for the country.

    Posted by: blueINdallas | February 19, 2008 1:06 PM

  164. I am tired of hearing CNN tells us they have the best political team, Fox saying they report you decide.

    Posted by: vadaryl Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 1:07 PM

  165. VAdaryl,

    This is an example why...

    Where Hillary loses me is her plan for the Mortgage Industry...

    http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/mortgage/

    1. Any loan originator must fully disclose all fees that they charge. YSP premiums, what lenders pay to originator are also disclosed.

    2. Yes there are bad apples in any industry. What she doesn't realize is the we sell the programs that are available to us. If the Wall Street investors didn't have an appetite for some of the riskier loans, we wouldn't have them to sell...
    I agree with licensing standards for my industry. That will do well to get rid of the pretenders. Demanding federal registration of all brokers is an unwieldy layer of new bureaucracy that will be impossible to do so longs as different states have different lending guidelines.

    3. Yes you can eliminate prepayment penalties. When you do, don't be surprised if you lose the lenders that are willing to make more challenging loans. It takes a lender 18 months to break even after a loan has been originated. I don't like them. Many states require that the prepay be waived if a loan is paid off within 60 days of a rate reset...which is better for all parties involved.

    4. This 4th point is the most galling because if the program calculates a debt to income ratio, the taxes and insurance must be included in the calculation...that is underwriting 101. No Doc loans don't calculate the ratio at all. To qualify for those loans, you need superior credit scores to get one. They would determine that if you can't fully disclose income and you still manage your debt that flawlessly, then they were ok with the risk...

    So this is a case where all of her specifics, while nice, to someone with knowledge of the area see that she has no grasp of the issue and it makes me wonder where else she is doing that.

    Obama is a poker player...when you bluff and win a hand...don't show if you don't have to...

    3.

    Posted by: Bear Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 1:08 PM

  166. vadaryl...

    MSNBC doesn't have the luxury of getting "all caught up", nor does any other responsible news outlet. They have a job to do...and they've ALL fallen woefully short of that responsibility as deregulation has allowed more and more corporate ownership of our airwaves. I'm probably not saying this as well as I'd like...an example...Rupert Murdoch now owns too many of our media outlets, which allows him undue influence over the POV tha gets presented to the American viewing public.

    Posted by: harborwoman | February 19, 2008 1:10 PM

  167. Wolfie has to tell us how great they are everytime he goes over to his group to discuss anything. It's getting old real fast.

    Posted by: vadaryl Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 1:10 PM

  168. Don't worry Blue I find most of what you say to pretty laughable too.

    Posted by: Brian In NYC Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 1:11 PM

  169. MSNBC reporters have admitted they lost their focus a few weeks back.

    Posted by: vadaryl Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 1:13 PM

  170. I could see us getting all caught up in the excitement but they are paid not to do that but they did anyways. At least they admitted it for a change.

    Posted by: vadaryl Author Profile Page | February 19, 2008 1:15 PM

  171. MSNBC branded themselves as a political channel. They are doing what they are supposed to be doing. Opposite of FOX.

    But here is where there is no education. Chris, Tucker, Keith and the rest are pundits. They are supposed to give their opinions, no matter how swayed.

    CNN is a news Channel with some shows on Politics. They deliver the news and give us specials that are for the most part evenly handled.

    FOX is mainly a POlitical tool for the right. enough said.

    For a more even reporting, go to the Jim Leher News Hour or enjoy washington journal....like a town meeting really, To feel the pulse of the country.

    Don't watch MSNBC if you don't want to. Simple as that.

    Not even all the Pundits watch it all the time. 24/7 is just plain agony!

    Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 19, 2008 1:15 PM

  172. And Blue the fact that you could vote for McCain if Hillary doesn't get the nod proves my point. Your support of Hillary has nothing to do with issues. If it did you couldn't possibly vote for a man like McCain.

    Posted by: Brian In NYC