Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Woo. How did I get here first?

Huckabee is becoming the big story now...old mo' is on his side.
To me, and I have never cast a repugg vote, I find this much more intriguing.
For one thing, McCain commands attention when he delivers a TV speech, but I usually think it's Dr. Evil on the tube.
Then to further confuse me, Dr. Evil WAS on the tube earlier on a cable channel...one of those Mike Myers movies.
I watched both HRC and later Obama last night giving their speeches...just pure boilerplate re-hashing...not worth watching anymore.
The McCain / Huckabee partial love-fest is more entertaining...Dr. Evil Strangelove vs. The Second Coming Incarnate. Fascinating.
I highly suspect that McInsane was watching Austin Powers opponent, Dr. Evil, for pointers...while Huckabee was watching Fat Bastard and cheering when Fat Bastard went all-Jared and lost all that weight on the Subway diet.
But...I gotsta know...does Huckabee's skin sag like that?

Craig,

Keep on reporting ...I understand you and Pat ,you two are the only ones that are fair to Hillary.

CRAIG: THE MOTHER JONES LINK INSTEAD LINKS TO THE PRECEDING AP STORY

TRAIL MIXERS: HERE'S THE LINK TO THE MOTHER JONES STORY CRAIG LINKED FOR US:

http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2008/02/7173_its_not_over_is.html

I am very proud to be a supporter of Snator Hillary Clinton.

She will be a great leader for our country.

The disrespect shown to her on this site is disgusting.

you are the last person who should have to ask that question. good night.

Who cares about the election? The Time is re-uniting for a performance on this year's Grammys! Call Jay and Silent Bob!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irimNjHPS9c

Thanks for the sentiments about quitting smoking. I am going to cut back - but will never swear it off. The American Indians smoked and there is nothing like a smoke after a great meal...

Plus, I like the deep breathing and having a smoke also allows me to get some fresh air when I am stuck in the office all day.

But I will cut back, and lay off fried foods and get my ass of this couch every once in awhile and try to do more yoga. Because I can do better.

Anyways, onto politics - even though you never leave it - cab drivers want to talk about, friends who never expressed interest will engage in heated debates for as long as either you can stand. This blog has allowed me to actually put some coherent thoughts together.

Anyways, there is certainly something in the air. And it is the belief that we can actually make a difference this time and that our politics can start to reflect the evolution of our country.

The American people have been ahead of the politicians for a long time now and it is time they catch up.

Here is the delegate count for the Democratic race according to CNN:

American People:

Obama - 908 Clinton - 877

"Pledged" Super delegates:

Clinton - 223 Obama - 131

Just want to clear up a misconception built on the way the media reports the results. This diminishes the momentum that Obama is building. Especially when you consider that the super delegates can switch at any moment and their are hundreds more that have yet to back a candidate.

Of course it will be interesting to see who Terry McAuliffe throws his support behind since he is a super delegate and the chairman of the Clinton campaign. Talk about special interests...

Good catch. It is hard to break the habit of scoring points. But i hope the substance - that Obama is winning the American people - is not overshadowed by a technicality. My mistake.

From my morning emails. This is from a 68-year old friend of my sister's who lives in Washington:

In Washington the only way you can get your vote to count is by voting at a caucus. Ridiculous? YES!! Especially since they also sent out ballots which, for the Democrats, weren't even counted! Waste of money? OH YEAH!

I show up at my precinct, and a young man tells me I am at the wrong place, suggests I go to another. I get there and a woman in the know says I was in the right place in the first place.

Now, the caucus was supposed to be from 1-2 and it was 1:30. I rushed home, went on line to the Washington Democrat web site and found out my precinct number and where I was to vote (the first place I went). Off I go again - bound and determined to get my vote counted.

I huff and puff my way to the designated area for my number and they inform me I am still in time to get my vote counted for the second vote (which is probably the only one that would count). I filled out the form and wrote in Hillary's name.

We should not have to do this. In a democracy it is said that every vote counts. Well - that ain't necessarily so here during the primaries in this state. If you have to work, are sick or incapacitated in such a way you are unable to get to the caucus, your vote won't count. How great is our democracy???????? Now, in some years the decision had already been made by now, but this year the vote is just too close to let it pass without my having my say. Hillary - I've done all I can for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Esf5NRXVrY

Texas by Mary Mapes.

Interesting introduction to a state the most link with Conservatives.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mary-mapes/texas-time_b_85728.html

oops......old link......meant for this one:

a little sunday morning miles to go.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4FAKRpUCYY

The idea that a carcinogen provides you with fresh air is ludicrous !!!

yeah, but........ludicrousity makes the world go round.....

tell that to second hand smokers... with all due respect.

that and bellicosity, of course........

respect taken....but the point is he went outside to smoke (hence the fresh air)......not endangering the non-smokers.......but, of course, I agree with your original premise......about the ludicrous.......

ok point taken, but it has been my experience that even outside when I am anywhere near a smoker, I am breathing it in. Probably because I was the only one in a family of 5 or 6, depending on the count, I was always sick. I could relate to "it's not easy growing up green" :-) That plus chronic allergies doesn't help.

but onto more important things...

PATSI IF YOU ARE THERE I FORWARDED YOUR COMMENT TO DWIGHT PELZ OF THE WASHINGTON STATE DEMOCRATS.

I do feel I am like a salmon swimming against the tide... it seems all my friends went for Obama. So now I have to ask myself if living in Europe has made me more conservative, especially being away from leftist radio and The Evergreen State College. TESC is cool, we even have a nude beach, much to the chagrin of the local residents.

I got nothing else to do so I decided to let my 2c. pick-a-back to greatness upon the shoulders of your thought.

:D

I do feel as though it is the high ludicrous factor of humans which paves the way for most happenings ......take advertising, for example......and war and prejudice, etc......

or take Strom Thurmond attacking Anita Hill in defense of Clarence Thomas way back when......it's hard to assign a ludicrous quotient to that little bit of theater of the absurd.......

I hadn't heard about this message Ron Paul just sent out! Evidently he has a serious primary opponent for his congressional seat.
__________

Last night, the libertarian-leaning Texas congressman sent a message to his supporters signaling that he was scaling back his presidential bid. 

The most telling passage:

"I also have another priority. I have constituents in my home district that I must serve. I cannot and will not let them down. And I have another battle I must face here as well. If I were to lose the primary for my congressional seat, all our opponents would react with glee, and pretend it was a rejection of our ideas. I cannot and will not let that happen."

Thanks Tom -- I think it's outrageous that the mailed ballots didn't count.

Speaking of smoking, on Bill Moyers Show Kathleen Hall Jamison of the Annenberg School was talking about how the "age" issue should really be focused which is on health. She went on the make the argument that Obama was just as much at risk of dying due to his long smoking habit (which he has stopped) and that both his parents had died young.
Whereas McCain can parade around his 96 yo Mom who is still quite sharp. She also said people should have been informed about the Reagan family history of alzheimers.

She also said people should have been informed about the Reagan family history of alzheimers.

---KGC

that would have been a right neighborly thing to do.....

the clarence thomas hearings were like To Kill A Mockingbird on mescaline........Strom Thurmond does Atticus Finch........

She also pointed out that both the Jack Kennedy campaign and the Paul Tsongas campaign also covered up health issues. Has Tsongas been elected he would have died in office.

stugeone you are funny... :-)

Patsi, it's clear there is nothing that can be done. In the past campaigns there wasn't the contest there is now, at least since I have lived in Europe, so I didn't feel disenfranchised. I am concerned that "citizens" could tell someone that she has gone to the wrong place. That is NOT democracy.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=294423702

because I love it so.

marlo thomas.......remember the old tv western where she played a part with her dad who tearjerkingly died at the end passing some totem to her......"Honor Bright"

she's quite a girl.......

maybe she could be hillary's vice president.......

well........looking at the sunday morning political round-up.........a pox upon them.......

......just one more cowment...........

Clinton Stands up to MSNBC, and Gets Hit by Progressive Blog

What TPM is offering is quite possibly the worst analytical assessment of a major media insult that could possibly be written, backed up by a classic Clinton photographic hit job that rivals work of the New York Post. But their regurgitation of the New York Daily News headline also brings them trouble. So they neatly follow it up with these sub-headlines: Shuster's Original Offense, And Apology; His Second Apology; Clinton Camp Backing Off Firing Demand?
http://www.taylormarsh.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zEKaW9vmIg

good morning gang....
just doing a quick peek in this morning to say congrats to the Obama people...

things are getting very interesting in both races....

see y'all later....

I am trying to understand how 30,000 or less people can DECIDE who will be the winner in their states? Wooster, my town, has 30,000 and that would be like Wooster, Ohio deciding. Gratefully, Ohio has a primary and Hillary will be the winner.
Why are there caucuses? Are people to stupid to believe they really mean anything? LET the Entire state vote.
What will happen to Mich and Fl
I see the media is at it again. Obama can do no wrong.

Carol, the caucuses are meant to be an empowering tool for people to be involved in determining issues the party needs to address. From the caucuses, these issues go to county and then state party conventions. Finally, they go up to the national and many of the caucus issues are added to the party platform, a statement of intent I guess.

I think party caucuses also mean that people who might not otherwise have the chance to be a delegate because they are not an active "party headquarters person" but can be nominated via the conventions. That's how I remember it. I loved caucusing for Jesse Jackson. I really did... At the time I thought Al Gore was a right wing nutcase, and I was against him because of Tipper Gore's music warning labels campaign. Now of course, I think Al is really part of the heart and soul of the party.

I am blathering.. sorry.

nteresting interview with Cher ... It's about her life, Sonny and at the end she talks about the Presidency. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwHsHBoWu3E

More established doesn't have anything to do with being an "underdog" or not.

McCain has been the front runner and the underdog
and now he is mighty dog althought Hucksterbee is trying to step on his cape.

Thanks Tom,
What right gives those people the right to decide for the state? I think that is appalling.
I am going to a calling bank for Hillary this afternoon. So glad Ohio gives us the right to vote.
What is more appalling is that Obama thinks he is winning because of those caucases. Is that right? I think NOT.

Warren in the spirit of smoking the peace pipe, so to speak. The American Indians gave us tobacco and in return we gave them syphillis and alcohol. Fair trade, huh? Which reminds me of a joke...

An Indian woman was hitch hiking in New Mexico and was picked-up by a blonde woman. In the back seat of the blonde woman's car, was a brown bag with a bottle of wine. The blonde explained that she had just gotten rid of her husband thus the brown bag. The Indian woman asked what was in the brown bag and the blonde told her it was a bottle of wine....the Indian woman remarked "Good trade."

Now I do not mean to sound sexist or racist as I really do respect the "protected classes" in our society. We are all God's children.

Carol, you might not know this bit of history. Washington State created a primary after the state's Republican delegates went to Pat Robertson in 1988. It is a known fact that the most politically active are the ones who go to the caucuses. It's hard enough to get people to cast a vote, to ask them to go to a precinct meeting will bring out only THE most active. And invariably the new, and different sort of candidates draw that activist passion. That's not all bad. I still say make voting a legal obligation for all citizens and these problems will go away.

So as I have complained ad nauseum, I sent in my ballot from Belgium for the Washington State primary and it doesn't mean a thing. Am I not a disenfranchised voter since it isn't so easy to hop in a car, drive to Brussel, book a plane, fly to Washington, cast my vote and go home? One would think so. I don't mind that Obama won, but I wanted my vote counted. Hell because I am out of the country, I even have to pay the postage to mail the damn ballot.

Cheers...

Washington state also has a primary on 2/19

It will be interesting to see how it matches the caucus result.

What's that old joke? "My husband ran off with my best friend. I am sure going to miss her". you can reverse this of course.

thanks Katherine. I wasn't sure when the primary was. If the results are the same, then my criticism of the caucus process is proven false. Time will tell.

The Huckster has very little money. Of all the candidates still in the game, he is the only one with a net worth under 1 million dollars. He claims he needs a miracle and in many ways his campaign has been one. He is at least adds a very interesting flavor the campaign. Personally, he scares me with his creationist thinking, which reminds me of another joke. Regarding Intelligent Design of the human body, why did God put the sewer plant next to amusement park?

Okay...maybe too much coffee for me. Got to run, but will be back.

Patsi,

Do take part in the February 19 Primary. Even though it will not count for delegates, it will show the interest in the race and reflect how the percentages might have been different if all of the people were allowed to vote.

There are also some down ticket races that could use your opinion.

Jamie -- which state are you talking about? I already helped put Tennessee in the win column...ha!

Jamie---I began conversing with you about universal health care and became derailed. I understand universal covers everyone. You said that a claim can't be denied. So if one has health insurance that didn't initially cover dental care which can't be denied because it wasn't covered in the first place---who then covers dental work?

Those of you who want to barb/sting, or one up someone else or just crazy make ---please don't respond. I'd really like a platform to learn something. Thank you.

If the Feb 19 primary doesn't mean anything -----why is is being held? Why would they have a caucus? just curious.

I can understand the caucus process as a way to organize party activists, get people involved in campaigning for different candidates and provide workers for various political events.

Why that should be tied to the outcome of a vote by the people strikes me as very undemocratic. Maybe that is because until recently I lived in a semi-closed primary system in California and this was the first time I caucused about national candidates in Washington.

Prior to this, I though Caucusing would be fun and in a way it was nice to see so many people interested in the voting process, but it certainly wasn't reflective of the will of the people.

Hi all.
Thanks for the information. I am very new at this political stuff. I am a psychologist/counselor and never was into politics so this race has been so interesting and I am relatively dumb on the history. History was not my strong suit. haha But I am sure learning and I plan on getting Craig;s books. I am also new at blogging. That is what we are doing right?

Krautheimer article http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/01/will_obama_finally_get_scrutin.html

The whole first half is definitely pro HIllary slanted, but the important part is the bottom half about Obama's voting record and how that differs from the perception about that record. It is well worth reading.

I am a little more wary of a primary where you can walk in and request whatever ballot you want. When a party doesn't have a contest for a candidate then they are free to mount efforts to elect the opposing candidate that they wish to run against. This what happened to John Kerry in Missouri to some degree last time.

At least I know some of my republican friends said that they were coached to vote democratic for Kerry because he would be easy to beat.

I mentioned yesterday that I was somewhat dismayed by the religious connotation that some of the Obama supporters brought to the caucus, particularly the church folk bussed in to the event. I went on line to see if this was a pattern and found several "second coming" references:

http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/25553-re-barack-obama-wins-nevada-caucus-13-12-the-christ-awaken

And some that he is the anti-christ

http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TUAMH99M1STQE3C5Q/p19

There are also several of the right wing religious nut case articles that I won't link to because they get too incredibly weird.

Objective from the standpoint of seeing what really happened in the caucus room yes. I'm also objective about the numbers of votes received. They are what they are.

Now I find the Obama claims of the number of states "won" a little naive, because he is claiming some states that are notoriously red where the Democrats are so far outnumbered by Republicans that they haven't faded to pink much less become purple. So he may have "won" the primary, but the chances of taking it in the General are pretty much pie in the sky.

I am not objective about him as an individual. He simply doesn't impress me and the longer I watch him, the less I think he deserves the office.

Carol,

Craig is "blogging". He is the person writing the commentary at the top of each "Thread". We are "commenting" on what he posted as well as discussing other issued amongst ourselves and ocassionally playing around and being silly.

Anyone can have a blog. You have to write it and post it yourself. How much commentary you then get depends on the popularlity of what you write with your readers.

There are all types of blogs from intensely political to a huge network of cat lovers. :-)

dog -- I haven't heard from my friend regarding her daughter's tests. And they haven't posted anything new on her site since Thursday. I hope that doesn't mean really bad news. Losing a child no matter what the age must be horrifying.

"My sister has a good recipe for enchilada sauce; will take me a few days to find it, but will share it with Jamie when I do. (She's been a great informal clearinghouse for C List fans.)"

Just to make sure everyone sees it, I can put up a blog article with everyone's recipes that I receive, so even the people whose emails I don't have can find them.

CNN delegate count:

Clinton 1108
Obama 1049

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/scorecard/#D

Obama's high school friends speak out about his drug use.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5xl9EiGMwE

Jack

The reason the Republicans closed their primary in California is because of cross over voters. It has been a big problem in the past for both parties.

"hey "
---jack ducks again as some thing flys past his head--

It was just a joke
the real story
Look at the picture of the willis, from different strokes,lookalike

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/09/us/politics/09obama.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin

Jack

I like the system where it is a closed primary by party and the decline to state folks are required to select only one of the parties at the time of the primary vote.
They can't vote one party for one office and another party for another office. At least for that election, they must become one or the other and that decreases the chances of a mass of mischief makers messing with the other party's candidates.

What would they remember? They were all stoned.

MUSIC LOVERS

Did you see the "Sunday Morning" segment on vinyl records. Apparently there is a movement going on and now Amazon has a whole vinyl section

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/102-7017541-6475350?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Vinyl+REcords

Patsi andJamie, check your inboxes. Just sent the enchilada recipe. Enjoy!
Love your idea to put up a blog entry with recipes. Jamie. If anyone has some good diabetic dessert recipes, I'd love them.

Thanks for the recipe...I'm on my way to check now!

nannymm

Maybe we could do a series. Ethnic, diabetic, holdiay, great desserts, BBQ, etc.

Every day of the week is available except Monday and I might be able to figure out a way to get some of these into tomorrow's Manic Monday post since the word is "heart". If something comes from the heart, it is a great recipe.

This primary system is wide open to criticism and will most likely become a great source of contention.

Whenever anyone says "your votes wont count" , you just devalued democracy.

What a stupid decision.

I get along fine with Missouri's method which is state your preference at the time of voting. Sure you will have some people threaten to vote just to cause trouble but the benifits out weigh the problems. I think it results in candiates that are more acceptable to the general public and gives the independents a stake in the system.

Jack

Wonderful idea, Jamie.

Why can't we go to a straight primary? One person, one vote? Personally, I'd like to see a national primary, and make it closed. I can't vote in a teacher's union election and they can't vote in my nurse's organization election. Why should non-dems vote in a dem primary?

About primaries. As I understand it states which have people registered by party normally have to vote only in their own party's primary candidate selections For example, in Minnesota, I could only vote primary DFL. Come election day I could choose whom I wanted (which was DFL always, so no biggie there). But in Washington State, we can vote any candidate because we are not registered voters by party basis. Under the new primary, we can choose either a Dem or Repug ballot. We were so concerned about a right wing homophobic fundamentalist running for King County Executive that a lot of us Dems in Washington state voted for Tim Hill to ensure the fundie didn't win. Unfortunately Hill came out looking like a shining winner and then in the fall defeated incumbent Democrat Randy Revelle.

Fair equals one vote for each voter. Seems simple to me.

They have had years to look at the process, and it doesn't change.

We deserve what we get.

TY thanks for the johnny cash

I found this with Johnny Cash and Louis Armstrong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqc209-rwNI

Jack

Nannymm -- Oh, man that sounds good! Luckily I can probably find the chilies here now...when we moved to TN 25 years ago, probably not. We'd lived a few blocks from Corky Gonzalez's "compound" in Denver and I knew his daughter pretty well from some women's movement things.....got in on some day-long tamale bakes etc. Then here in Nashville, we couldn't even find a decent Mexican restaurant. One day my kids came home from school and said they'd figured out why no Mexican restaurants....no Mexicans! (I remain a great fan of Corky and his work for the Chicanos, a term he coined...)

Now I live in an area of town with LOTS of Chicanos....so I can buy a chili pepper on any corner....

Speaking of Johnny Cash, I have on MySpace profile his video HURT. It is thought of as his epitaph... His wife, June Carter Cash is in the video, and it's a real heartbreaker. Due to medications she couldn't eve speak anymore. She died shortly after the video was made and Johnny not so long after her. The Cash house was later sold but caught fire and burned to the ground, the house in which the video is filmed.

http://www.myspace.com/eurotom Check under section MUSIC. You will have to shut off the music player with the song DEMON on it.. it's from a horror flick. :-)

Frank Rich accuses the Clintons of race-baiting.
From NYT column...

Last month a Hispanic pollster employed by the Clinton campaign pitted the two groups against each other by telling The New Yorker that Hispanic voters have “not shown a lot of willingness or affinity to support black candidates.” Mrs. Clinton then seconded the motion by telling Tim Russert in a debate that her pollster was “making a historical statement.”

It wasn’t an accurate statement, historical or otherwise. It was a lie, and a bigoted lie at that, given that it branded Hispanics, a group as heterogeneous as any other, as monolithic racists.

Nice state-by-state delegate chart. http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/scorecard/#D

Lucky you. Patsi. I have to go to Canada for Mexican. Or make it myself. Fortunately, I love to cook and learned to cook Mexican form real Mexican women.
I have many fond memories of long days making tamales at holiday times. What more can ya ask for....a great day spent working and having fun with friends followed by the sheer joy of delicious fresh tamales. WOW! I'm getting hungry. LOL

"I mentioned yesterday that I was somewhat dismayed by the religious connotation that some of the Obama supporters brought to the caucus, particularly the church folk bussed in to the event."

I have thought this was OB strong point all along, that he positioned himself above all overs, and is making people "believe." This adds to the "cult-like" following, the chanting, the fainting, etc. Busing in votes, and spewing "promise land rhetoric" taking up collections ..... I see a scene that scares me to no end.

I will find it very difficult to vote for anyone, that panders to religious people for political gain.

I read that NY Times article this morning ,Craig. Based on that, any outcome is possible. So much for "One person, One vote." We dems sure have created a monster. How likely do you think it is that it will be revised yet again after this election cycle?

Curious to know what your thoughts are as to whether the alleged democratic voter demographic is a truly accurate description of voters or not.. Clintonites-older-over 50, usually not college educated, income-less than $50,000, women (although-have not seen a breakout of white vs black), hispanic vs. Obamians-younger-under 50, college & up incomes upwards from $75,000, men (although have not seen a breakout of white vs black ), african american.

I do not feel that I fall neatly into either demographic & following the posts here (as often as I can) I get the
feeling that they are not that accurate.

I support a closed primary, believe a caucus generally favors the party's preferred candidates(which I suspect
was its intended purpose) & does not necessarily represent the majority of registered voters.

the truth hurts sometimes.

Here is a campaign trail update:'

Just learned that fellow blogger, VA Darrell will be on stage with Hillary Clinton today, maybe as I type.

she is appearing at Manassas, VA for noon to 2pm rally

Darrell will be on far left of stage, second row, third person in. Look for him and remember to vote this Tuesday, and expecially in November

well when I read about all this stuff... and how the Dems have actually disempowered in their goal to create empowerment, it just seems to me the old moniker is still as true today:

DEMOCRACY IS MESSY...

DAMNED MESSY...

Setting the standard for civil discourse...

Coulter compares Hillary to Stalin, and McCain to Hitler.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/08/unhinged-coulter-uses-hit_n_85778.html

Nannymm et al

Nanny's recipes will be up late this afternoon and all day tomorrow for Manic Monday. You can view it at http://jdurward.blogspot.com

Keep the recipes coming.

Sometimes it compares with participants here as well... standards for civil discourse that is.

The Republicans have a candidate and the Democrats have a fight.

A hopeful signs of progress: the Dems are fighting over a woman vs a black man.

Not the usual two white guys.

Yes Nash I agree. Someone said something like "Hillary should drop out for the good of the party's chances in the Fall elections". What a bunch of bull ... like asking one candidate to capitulate is going to bring Dems together. In fact, that sort of suggestion creates further divisions. I honestly can't remember where I read it, but it was one of these discussion places.

Huckabee's force is spent.

He can't win a primary in any state that was NOT part of the Confderacy.

He's running for VP.

Huckabee is in a strong position right now to make a deal for VP.

If he continues to fight, McCain will not pick him.

I'll bet a deal is being hammered out.

Nash

"It wasn’t an accurate statement, historical or otherwise. It was a lie, and a bigoted lie at that, given that it branded Hispanics, a group as heterogeneous as any other, as monolithic racists. "

In what wonderfully evolved part of the world do you live? Stating an historical fact is not racist. Sure there are wonderful communities where all the various races live in harmony or at least tolerance, but it is also a fact that there are great tensions that frequently explode into violence between Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and Whites.

Many blacks feel that Hispanics have stolen their jobs and that Asians have taken over the stores and profits of their neighborhoods. We all know the violent history of racial conflicts involving Whites.

Just saying something exists and that voting patterns are likely to reflect that reality is not racist. You might want to add that prejudice of any kind is really, really stupid, but you can't pretend it doesn't exist.

well.... I've waded through some of the posts from last night..... not all.... but some....

Jamie and HarborW..... thanks for your reports on the Washington state caucus

Warren.... I thought your long post about Obama from last night was the best I've read from anyone on this blog advocating for him.... I still want Clinton...
but good job....

I too think there should only be primaries..... I am dismayed when I see the small numbers of people who actually show up at caucuses.....

we used to do town meeting in my little town to determine the town budget and what we would or wouldn't spend our money on..... it was held on the second Saturday in March and only about 100 people ever showed up.... we went a few yrs ago to the ballot system instead..... at first, I resisted this.... but now we get 1000 to 1200 people voting and I've decided the secret ballot is a much fairer way to go.... much more representative of what the town's people really want....

Craig..... thanks for explaining your numbers concerning delegates....
I know.... it's hard to please everyone here..... you do a good job trying.... :0}

Patsi:

Are you from Washington...do you know if the numbers will be released for the primary. That would be great if they were.

Don't the Repubs split it up part from caucus part from primary? I know they can't do it for this race...but that might be a way to do it. I still hate caucus' too few can participate.

Win the Most Big States, Win the Nomination
"Big state wins for presidential hopefuls have always been a priority. In fact, in order to get the nomination of your party, they're critical. Candidates of both parties have found this out over our modern political history. The person who wins the most big states, wins the nomination."
http://www.taylormarsh.com/

It's currently 1 degree outside here. Feels like -19.

Delegates won - according to Wolf from CNN:

Obama - 918

Clinton - 885

Latest AP delegate count:

Clinton 1095 (882 pledged / 213 super)
Obama 1070 (931 pledged / 139 super)

AP Delegate Tracker: http://hosted.ap.org/specials/interactives/campaign_plus/delegate_tracker/delegate_tracker.swf

No, LB, I'm in Tennessee. But I posted an email from a woman I know in Washington about the caucus she attended.

LB

One more thing about the Washington caucus that disturbed me. This was only the first tier. My precinct was designated 27-345. Based on registrations in the area we were allocated 15 delegates to the second tier. Now 78 people for that precinct showed up and their votes onced pushed through the math came out 12 delegates for Obama and 3 for Clinton.

The allowed delegates and outcomes were different for all of the precincts in the room with over 300 people registered to vote in the caucus.

Now these delegates will go to the second tier on April 19 and theoretically they will vote as they are pledged to do as well as voting on various party resolutions, but if the delegate or their alternate doesn't show up, this could change.

The assigned delegates from that second tier will then go to a third tier of the state convention in May and guess what could change again?: The delegates given to any candidate.

http://www.masoncountydemocrats.com/2008%20Precinct%20Caucuses%20-%20Basic%20Explanation%20-%20Short.pdf

I would love to know what everyone thought of the Obama and Clinton speeches last night. I found Hillary's to be very positive and a party unifying speech while Obama's was negative, particularly against Senator Clinton. Is this the route he has to go at this point? Is this approach going to continue to draw the part of the base he is not currently attracting? Thoughts?

you sell your man short by using CNN numbers, warren -- AP is ahead of them in allocating last night's delgates (nets won't admit it but they rely heavily on AP's numbers, so AP always going to be out front on this stuff).

Warren, AP now giving your man 931 pledged delegates, compared to CNN's 918 -- suggest you go with AP

I wouldn't go there if I were you!

Ally,

That is a dangerous question this morning. As one of the offending parties from last night, I would suggest you just go back to the previous thread to read all about the war.

Today is Sunday and we are trying to reestablish some form of brother and sisterhood. :-)

Craig--
What will or can happen to Edwards' delegates? How many does he have, and do you think that he has enough for a bargaining chip?

Primary vs. Caucus

As with almost every issue - there are arguments for and against - depending on who your candidate is - but here is my take.

Both are important because they are a measure of different qualities - BOTH of which are required by a nominee that can be competitive in the general.

Primary - this tests broad-based appeal and more voters get to participate. Drawbacks - it is more influenced by name recognition and on average - voters in primaries will be less informed and less active than caucus goers. And although I think this number is small - a primary allows people to vote based on prejudice without having to explain it to anyone.

Cacaus - tests grass roots energy and ability to organize. Voters are active, engaged and there is discussion and debate about who should be president.
Draw backs - less voter participation. (let me know of others.)

My take on why Obama is winning caucuses is because he has a stonger message this year. People want Change and there is no credible argument that John McCain won't be ready on day one.

Look at the Republicans to get some fresh perspective. Huckabee does well in caucuses too because he has a fresh message and because McCain crushes him in name recognition. It is certainly not because nurses can't attend caucuses to support McCain. Primaries favor the establishment candidate.

Plus - caucuses are part of the rules and the Clintons need to quit all the complaining. It makes them sound like a bunch of lawyers - pointing out technicalities when they work against them even though I never heard any such arguments before in my life.

I have never been to one - but I like the idea of a caucus. It seems like a throw back to the old days in America where politics was about town halls rather than sound bytes on the news.

Oops. Just read the previous thread. At least I know I am not the only one who thought the tone was off. Will this be covered in the MSM? Doubt it.

Thanks Craig.

Can I just remind all the Obama supporters that the "red" states that he's won that will FOR SURE stay "red states" in November are not going to be decided by caucuses in the general election.

A few thousand party faithful in those states will be no match to the thousands of christians that will come out to vote in November. The real "fairy tale" is Obama winning those planes states...GIVE ME A BREAK (LOL)

The last two elections have hinged on Flordia (Clinton won even though the voters will be disenfranchised...meaning we'll lose that state in November) and Ohio (let's see how that goes...we think Hillary is going to win that but I'll leave it at let's see what happens).

Ally--"Oops. Just read the previous thread. At least I know I am not the only one who thought the tone was off. Will this be covered in the MSM? Doubt it."

That's what i meant when I said "I wouldn't go there if I were you!"

I imagine that the caucuses were filled to the brim with sound bites!

Chickadee: You weren't kidding.

I will refrain from arguing that CNN is biased.

Hi Craig,
Thanks jamie for the information and Craig for yours. So this is not how it is usually done in the primaries? I had no idea how complexed it is. How do you tell them apart? haha
So it does come down to special interest groups?
I am starting to get depressed about it all.
I am off to a phone bank for Hillary.
You all have a great day.
It is very cold here in Wooster, Ohio

Any bets as to whether The United States government's national threat level will be elevated at some point in time between now and November in attempts help McCain?

Burrito: How can you discount energy and passion. People who are that enaged in the political process are willing to do MORE than just vote. I think if Obama wins he can translate this grass roots movement into greater involvement in public service. I don't see how anyone can be against that.

We also need that energy to win the general. Winning the nomination is just the first step.

UB

I don't know about the other caucus locations, but ours was so overwhelmingly attended by the Obama organization delivered folks that the Clinton people were really, really outnumbered. There was virtually no discussion: Just vote and do the paperwork.

Obama simply had the best organization on the ground. Pick up the people at churches and deliver them. The Clinton folks had to get there on their own with little or no contact from the Clinton campaign other than one training session and an email to encourage attendance.

There were no speeches other than the one I described yesterday. How do you debate against a true believer preaching the beginning of the end times and Obama as a sign from above. (That isn't a slam, she really believed it).

LB: don't underestimate Obama's ability to appeal to evangelicals. I hear over and over on this board how there is a relgious fervor to the campaign.

Ally

I think it is obvious what Obama was trying to accomplish in last nights speech. His biggest problem with the HRC faithful is they believe he is not a tough enough pitbull for a VP slot. This was his attempt to prove he could be a good VP candidate. It looks as if he now has come to the realization that he will lose.;^P

Other than that I can think of no reason for a ready for prime time player to go into a neutral site and throw red meet to rowdy loyalist.
Creating enemies for the hell of it is not smart politics.
Machiavelli would not approve.

Jack

A qeustion popped into my mind last night. How is that the guy that gets the majority of the weathier Dems votes (the people that have more time to caucus and participate) is the progressive grass-roots guy and the candiate who gets a majority of the working class vote (the one's at work who can't caucus) is the establishment candidate.

The process in the caucuses this year is just another example of the elite few of a party making a decision for the rest of the party.

It's so Republican of us.

" I think if Obama wins he can translate this grass roots movement into greater involvement in public service."

Fabulous! When will you be joining the military?

Warren:

I'm going to stick by my prediction that the Dems will lose all of the traditional red states no matter who the candidate on our side is.

But we all have to have something to believe in. You believe he will somehow win in those states. It's good to hope.

They are not caucus' in the general election. They will stay red.

This is an observation I have made in the last few days:

Obama made a speech in Seattle to huge crowds and it was played on the radio station I listen to online (still listen to Seattle radio even though I recently moved to Iowa.) His speech was actually the most specific speech I have heard him give to date. It made references to eliminating the Bush tax cuts to the top 1% and "putting it in the hands of those who need it" or something like that. He offered his proposal of $4,000 per year college tuition in exchange for service. Emissions taxes to corporations. Etc. etc. etc.

So, on this radio station his speech happens to play during a three-hour talk show that leans right (hosted by a right-leaning libertarian.) Following the speech the host observed that the speech sounded like a lot of big government and that the Independents and Republicans that are so jazzed about this guy better listen carefully to what they are getting instead of being so enthralled by his oratorical style and just falling in line with the fervor.

Then the host opened up the show to calls. And the calls went something like this: "I was thinking that I could vote for this guy! He is so charismatic! But WOW! He is a liberal! He wants big government! I can't vote for him! So scary!"

Here is my observation: The Democratic base needs Obama to be more specific. BUT, the more specific he gets, the more Independents and Republicans will see that he is a Democrat! He believes in government! He is going to raise taxes for the rich! And corporations!

So, he starts to alienate the people who were projecting all sorts of ideals on him when he was so vague and just a phenomenal speaker and a big unifier. Without the specifics, these people were able to make Obama anything they wanted him to be. So, he loses some of the independents and LOTS of the Republicans that were so excited about him when he just kept the speeches inspirational, without all the Democratic talking points. So then the electability argument goes out the window, does it not?

Specifics may get him enough of the Democratic base to come over from the candidate who currently has a plan but will it be enough to take him to victory in the primary season. And if it is enough, will he have alienated so much of the middle that he is no longer viable as the unifier?

Thought brought up on McLaughlin Group this a.m.....McCain with a female VP?

It boggles the mind.

tt

Patsi: Military service is not the only form of public service. People can volunteer for the peace corps, at hospitals and homeless shelters, etc.

In several months, I will be leaving my lucrative job as a corporate lawyer to go to work for a judge and will make about 1/4 of what I make now.

Indian guru, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi dies at 91.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7229597.stm

He didn't last forever, but 91 is a goodly age.

tt

not saying it'll last but sooooo appreciate the civil tone of our clinton and obama patriots today. makes the read more pleasant and certainly more enlightening. is it the sunday effect, or is everyone just hung over?

and thanks much to Jamie for your WA caucus Trailspotting -- the difference in organizing strength is something i've heard a lot from old Dem pros, that Obama's background as a community organizer shines through -- as one said of the Clinton camp's notorious failings at grass-roots organizing, "they think GOTV means Get On TV" ( instead of Get Out the Vote)

thing to remember about the Clintons is that they see themselves as the most skilled general election campaigners and have always viewed the dem party's nomination maze as a necessary evil for getting on the November ballot, which explains why they are getting the whip saw from a better organized liberal wing. Still, the cyncical Clintonian attitude is that the more she is seen battling the libs, the better off she'll be in Nov with centrist voters,

my favorite Johnny Cash
"Busted"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8kRsoAZjpM

Jack

The Repub Attack/Smear Machine will diminish energy & passion for Obama - "turn off" his voters.

Jack

I prefer the Ray Charles version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQRtbLvw1sE

Spelling error gives me a chance to link to

The Code of Hammurabi

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/CODE.HTM

"Burrito: How can you discount energy and passion."

I do not discount it.

Question is: Will all these people with the "Obama energy and passion" will actually transcend into people who actually "do"something to create "change."

My bet is that most will retreat into their normal day to day lives, and when the honeymoon is over all their own problems will remain.

Again, just want to raise the notion of how powerful Obama can be as a candidate in the general when you combine the movement he has created with the Clinton political machine and all of the ardent Clinton supporters on this board and elsewhere.

Given the record turns outs, I think at least some of those red states will be in play if Obama is the nominee. Remember - we only need to win a small number of red states to win the general.

I know you will say the argument can be made the other way - but that will not be true unless Hillary can build some momentum. Right now, I don't see how she could come out of this process in a strong position. Also, a big part (but not the only part) of what I hear from Clinton supporters - is a severe distaste for the GOP (to put it mildly). Supporters driven by an urge to get the Republicans out of the White House could easily support Obama. I think it will be far more difficult to get Obama supporters seeking change to support Hillary - especially if she wins through a bitter war of attrition.

wow, bush on fox with chris wallace just now about the GOP nomination race: "We'll see what our party decides on which carrier they pick."

-- is that "carrier" as in pigeons or life-threatening disease?

on the newsworthy side of this interview, he said a lot of nice things about huckabee - a lot

Warren,

"all of the ardent Clinton supporters on this board and elsewhere."

Obama has to be very careful about how he attacks Clinton. His verbiage has been very snarky and demeaning of late. He keeps saying that his people will stay home if he is nominated, and Michelle just said that she would have "think about it" if Senator Clinton were the nominee.

Without a major attitude adjustment that shows a greater generosity of spirit to lead all the people, I am rapidly getting to the point where I will be sitting on my hands come election day, and I don't think I'm alone.

and now Bush is defending BIll Clinton .. yikes, that just gave me a cigarette craving, help!!!!

Bush to Chris Wallace: "You're the pundit. I'm just a simple president."

all pundits need that on a refrigerator magnet

Warren:

I have to be honest with you. After last nights speeches and other things I've seen from Obama during the campaign - he's starting to turn me off. He's starting to remind me of George Bush - the arrogance. He may be losing my vote in a general election. And beleive me when I say, a month ago I was an ENTHUSIASTIC supporter of all three of our democratic candidates. I was so excited that we were all voting FOR someone not FOR the lesser of evils...finally.

I think Obama's true colors are coming through and I worry that his lack of humility and grace and pure arrogance will be a detriment in 1) reaching across the aisle to get anything done - the Republicans are going to eat him alive and 2) Diplomacy. He can say he's going to meet with the leaders of these countries and work with them...but his attitude going into those meetings might be an issue.

I'm worried. His imaturity shows. This is just a perspective I'm trying to give Obama supporters who think he has Hillary supporters in the bag. I'm not sure he does. I think there are a lot of people like me who have cooled to him because of the way he acts. I personally know several.

I obviously meant

"stay home if he is not nominated,"

Craig
thanks, for your sacrifice. You are a tougher man than I am. GWB and fox news at the same time, shudder.

Jack

Jamie:

I hope you won't do that.

Without a major attitude adjustment that shows a greater generosity of spirit to lead all the people, I am rapidly getting to the point where I will be sitting on my hands come election day, and I don't think I'm alone.

Posted by: Jamie | February 10, 2008 2:12 PM

You aren't alone, Jamie. I know many people who feel that way. And I am starting to. His snarkiness is way out of line. And if he and his wife can't pledge to wholeheartedly support the dem nominee, he has alot of gall to expect Hillary supporters to get behind him.

Craig, as always...*L*

tt

Republican aided Ohio to put Bush into the white house by 2004 by getting an anti-gay marriage initiative on the same ballot. Advocates of the Ohio proposal include fundamentalist Christians, the Roman Catholic Church and anti-gay rights activists. These groups were able to get more conservative to the polls thus giving Ohio to Bush.

We will see similar tactics this November. Ohio is so critical and has proven to have a strong grass -roots conservative base. Who will fair better, Obama or Clinton?

Jamie, it may show that at least someone on her staff has an extensive understanding of the subject. Let me just add that more isn't always better.

Jamie

I would normaly agree with you, but with this song Cash's simple style is more in tune with the image the song invokes. It is had to believe that Ray is truly down and out.

This is believable Ray Charles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Thls_tMuFkc
old style Ray.

Jack

When Dick DeVos ran for Governor of Michigan in the last election versus Jennifer Granholm he was touted as a great business mind. He would turn around the Michigan economy. When he was asked to give specifics of his plans, he basically said "I don't have to." I think he basically meant "I don't have to give the specifics of my plans until AFTER I am elected Governor." In the end , it didn't matter becuase he lost the election.

Snarky is a perfect word.

I would like to see Obama angry, and examine how he behaves.

Jamie, LB and others: I couldn't agree with you more. At first I thought it was just Obama's supporters that were causing me to cool to his candidacy.

It has become increasingly obvious that Barak and Michele think they are "all that and a bag of chips."

Warren: I would caution the Obama campaign to show a little more class and humilty. I wouldn't be so sure that Hillary supporters are going to flock to the "movement." It is one thing to project confidence. It is another thing to be overconfident. It is a sure way to get one's ass handed to him in the GE.

That should read "overconfident."

Ooops, maybe it is time for an eye exam.

I would rather know what a candidate's ideas and plans for the country are BEFORE they get elected than to find out after they get elected.

Good Day!! Hard to believe in global warming when it is 8 below with wind chills from minus 25 to 45 below.

Craig, I bit, and turned on FOX to watch Bush. No wonder you need a smoke...........now what kind of tobacco would be in that cig?? LOL

I was reading what everyone had to say in regards to a cacus v a primary. Interesting comments, and educational. Question: Why don't they have a morning and afternoon meeting so all can attend? That way, more people could vote. So, if you live in a state with a cacus, the absentee ballot does not count? Is this true for all those states?

"at least someone on her staff has an extensive understanding of the subject. Let me just add that more isn't always better."

It is true she could have had someone with expertise write the position (willingness to ask advice?), but more important and totally outside the argument about length is the awareness that this is a major issue facing the children of this country. The exploding incidence of autism that is crippling lives, driving up costs, as reflected in the environment, challenging education etc etc etc.

His postions sound like: Say something that sounds good. Her positions sound like: Inform people on our deepest neglected issues.

Is Obama being too harsh?

From what I have heard, most of Obama's arguments against Clinton are re: electability and moving past the partisan battles of the last 10-15 years that have inhibited policy making and polarized the electorate(just think how much hostility many of you feel towards the Republicans). He also argues about special interests - which was the same argument Edwards vigorously attacked Clinton on.

I think these are valid arguments and many of my posts discuss these issues as well.

I also ask you to think back a couple of months ago. Obama was not going after Hillary - and he was not making any dents in the huge leads she held all over the country. The media (including MSNBC) were on him for weeks - saying he is "weak" - he needs to attack her - he needs to take her on, blah blah blah. He didn't - until after the SC debacle (which I agree was overblown by the media).

And even though that debate was not nice to watch - if he did not defend himself and go on the offensive - everybody here and in the media would be saying that this guy is too weak to take on the Republicans.

Again - I don't think Obama has stepped over the line. And most of us here have been more mean and hateful (in the heat of the moment) than either of the candidates. Many here are always saying one of the reasons you support Hillary is because she is a fighter who can go toe-to-toe with the GOP. But then you say you will not support Obama because he is doing the same thing now - and not just talking about it.

If people who are genuinely interested in the political process are getting Obama Burn Out (OBO), imagine how the marginally interested people feel.

Having specifics on a website and laying them out in your stump speech are two completely different things. I heard his stump speech in Iowa on numerous occasions (in person) and he stayed pretty far away from specific policy proposals. His speech in Seattle was as specific as I have heard him get (hence the reputation for being a little vague on the issues.)

Craig-
I'll give Chris Wallace props...that wasn't a soft ball interview.
~g

agreed Gidget, love that he made Bush respond to that Peggy Noonan column trash him -- don't think POTUS liked that very much

I just wanted to comment on what Karolenna said.. to even entertain the idea of sitting out the election because your candidate didnt get the nomination is idiotic... what was that.. a threat? are you going to hold your breath till you turn blue? If you and others stay home you GET the government you deserve..

Do you really think that Arizona would go for the dems over McCain? Isn't he like from Arizona?

Does anyone here ...honestly .....and I mean honestly think Wahington politics is going to change? Ever?

Maybe the social scene will change, due to different players, I've heard the parties have been dull and few compared to the Clinton years.

Craig-
Agee about PN article...but I think he got even more switchy over the question re: his father.
~g

oops...I meant twitchy....

bush does have daddy issues..

About global warming... remember that what it supposedly will do is block the sun's rays from getting through to our beautiful planet... As I understood it, global warming will bring a new ice age .

"But then you say you will not support Obama because he is doing the same thing now - and not just talking about it."

Warren I can't speak for the others, but is not just that he is being stronger in his opposition, it is the manner and attitude. There is an arrogance that is hard to define by merely quoting the words (though some of them have been harsh) that comes with the tone and manner. That clip of Michelle Obama was what you see in him (she started stepping on my last nerve long before he did).

We have had seven years of arrogance, attitude of superiority, snarky humor, and religious fervor masquerading as issue positions. Senator Obama is starting to give evidence of more of the same.

it isnt global warming.. it's climate change..

Jamie, that's why so many of us keep asking, "WHAT change?" I see alot of what you and others see and it is not change, It's very worrisome.

Ray Charles doing the Johnny Cash standard
"Ring of Fire"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhGZdSkX6IM

Jack

Obama is like Bush in his mannerisms and arrogance. His Ivy league elitist persona is difficult to over-look.

It's not on youtube but Dwight Yoakum does a dandy Ring of Fire

Eoro Tom-
Re: Arizona flipping....53% of the vote in the GOP primarary went to someone other than McCain...so yes, I think HRC could beat him in the GE in AZ.
~g

Jamie, I think it is a lack of manners in Obama that bothers me. It has from day one. He acts like the world owes him a favor.

"If you and others stay home you GET the government you deserve.. "

More than likely I would vote to ensure a Democratic Congress, but could very well do a write in at the Presidential level and trust a stacked Congress to deal with McCain in much the same way that a Republican Congress rode herd on Clinton.

Risky way to go, but I won't vote for someone if I have decided that she or he would be worse for the country than the opposition.

Another attempt to change the electoral college
This time just eliminate it.

"Legislation endorsing the National Popular Vote plan was passed in California and Hawaii but vetoed by their governors. California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said it would run "counter to the tradition of our great nation, which honors states' rights and the unique pride and identity of each state."

Koza believes the agreement proposal would standardize the way states award their electoral votes, give every voter equal influence and keep candidates from ignoring some states in favor of battleground states like Ohio and Florida.

He noted that neither presidential candidate visited Illinois in 2004, even though it has a population of about 12.8 million.

"The Republicans wrote it off and the Democrats took it for granted," Koza said, "and that's typical of two-thirds of the states."

On the Net:

National Popular Vote: www.nationalpopularvote.com/
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/02/10/politics/p110110S25.DTL&tsp=1

Ray Charles is one of the few singer that never lost his edge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXGc0OoZEsM

Jack

Jamie:

When asked if she could see herself working to support Sen. Clinton, Michelle Obama responded: “I’d have to think about that. I’d have to think about policies, her approach, her tone.” This is exactly what you are saying about whether you will support Obama.

I also think Senator Clinton comes off as arrogant. For example, when she said she could not even imagine not winning the presidency. Another example, her message is that SHE needs to come in and clean up the mess Bush has created - while Obama talking about uniting America so that we can all make progress together. I do not want to just hand off this country to the Clintons after the election - I hope we can all stay involved.

I also think the attempt to get Shuster kicked off is akin to some of the strong-arm tactics that the Bush administration has engaged. I know when we first started talking about Shuster - most on this board agreed it was completely inappropriate but that he should stay on the air. The next day Senator Clinton wrote a letter saying a suspension was not enough.

I watched part of Obama's speech last night and I rather liked it until I heard it wasn't his own event, but one where both candidates spoke. I think he has a good presentation, but it also seemed like he said last night, in coded language, "the nomination is mine, time to get in line." Still he has a good presentation and I do feel there is a lot of conviction there.

nope..sorry jamie.. hold yer nose if you must.. but you DONT want mccain.. you really dont..

Running to be the most powerful leader in the world takes a certain degree of arrogance.

exactly..warren.. that's why hillary said she didnt intend to lose..

EuroTom:

I think that is an important message to get our if Democrats are serious about winning the general. Look at the division that is taking place on this board and the comments about not voting for either Hillary or Obama. Again, what Obama is saying me be harsh - but it is true.

That is another thing Obama has promised us - being straight with the American people and not just telling us what we want to hear.

About change... look, as long as corporate interests hold most of the licenses for the public airwaves, as long as concentration of media ownership is not eliminated, as long as special monied interests and wealthy individuals can pump money into an election, as long as the lobbyists continue to hold sway and financially support candidates, as long as the electoral system is designed only to recognize Democrats and Republicans, as long as there is no fairness doctrine in the media, as long as elections are not publicly funded with a limited period for campaigning, as long as voting remains a fight between those who want to include and those who want to exclude voters, there will be no significant change!

Warren you mean Obama saying "the nomination is mine" is true? I am not quite following.

Warren, "while Obama talking about uniting America," just what does this mean?

the amazing thing? the day after the election they'll be discussing 2012

warren, hillary has NOT attempted to get shuster fired, rather, she said his apology and suspension were not enough. she went on to state that NBC/MSNBC need to look at the atmosphere they create. she was telling them that the problem is deeper than one remark and that they need to report and do analysis without the perjoritives that so often seep into the coverage. you are repeating an erroneous assumption and misinterpretaion of what hillary's letter actually said. please go back and read her letter, not just Josh Marshall'sTPM.

Craig, are you a betting man? Do you have any sense of where this will end up after all the states hold their primaries or caucuses?

That is another thing Obama has promised us - being straight with the American people and not just telling us what we want to hear.

Posted by: warren

Obama boasted of taking no money from registered lobbyists but didn't mention that he does accept money from their family members and partners and from ex-lobbyists
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/democratic_candidates_debate.html

I forgot a biggie... as long as most of the money in the USA is held by the top 1% of the population, there will not be much change either.

"The next day Senator Clinton wrote a letter saying a suspension was not enough."

After all the rude anti-clintoncomments made on MSNBC I think HRC letter was perfect. Did you read th entire letter?

What do you think HRC should have done?

Arrogance is no replacment for knowledge. Everytime I hear Obama speak, I think what great rhetoric. But what i want to know is how is he going to end the war safely. I am a Iraq veteran, and as a doctor I've seen enough of the slaughter up close. Hillary seems to be so much more up on the logistics of how to end the war safely. Obama gives no details. I can say the soldiers in my Unit feel much better letting Sen Clinton handle Bush's mess. If obama is the nominee, this is one Democrat that will vote Republican for the first time in 30 years.

"Craig, are you a betting man? Do you have any sense of where this will end up after all the states hold their primaries or caucuses? -- Posted by: EuroTom"

well, i don't bet for the same reason i don't vote. i don't care what democrats, republicans or the rest of the american people decide in this campaign, i just try to understand it

Can you imagine what would have happened had the words "pimp" and "OBAMA" use in the same sentence?

you don't vote? serious?

unlikely_b...

Can you imagine what would have happened had the words "pimp" and "OBAMA" use in the same sentence?

GOOD POINT !!!

Obama repeatedly says "When I am President". How is that different than when Clinton says "I will be President"? There is a constant double standard in the reporting of virtually identical quotes.

When pushed on the issue both of the Clintons have said they will work for the party during the election. When pushed on the issue both of the Obamas have said "we'll see".

JohnnyG - I feel the same way.

I remember the first Gulf war when there were military briefings in TV every morning. There are two America, those with family in the military and those without.

We have no idea what is going on .... no one covers it anymore.

Can you imagine what would have happened had the words "pimp" and "OBAMA" use in the same sentence?

Burrito, People would be shouting, "RACISM" from the rooftops. But, sadly, sexism is acceptable still in our society,
Furthermore, if it is a Clinton being denigrated, that is not only acceptable to many, it is also desired and applauded. A sad commentary on what passes for political discourse in some quarters.

Question: What is the likelihood that Super-Delegates could be bought off to change their support from one candidate to the other? Offers of cabinet offices, special attention to needs of their constituency and so forth. Is this likely to be in play if the DEM vote remains divided.

Holy Cow! (hope this is the last one). I just turned to FNC for the first time in years. The ribbon running across the bottom of the page reporting election demographics was straight forward and seemingiy honest.

I don't expect them to suddenly turn blue, but I was surprised. They are about to do a program on the Democratic delegate fight and does it really energize the party rather than hurting it? Should be interesting.

Are we all going to love each other when this process is finished? :-D

Being a mother I can completely understand why Senator Clinton didn't think a suspension was enough---implying that the Clinton folks pimped out their daughter was really nasty. Jeesh---he could have said she was ordered to procure!

Don't tell me the Clintons forced their daughter into using herself to bring in Super Delegates---wouldn't you think the young woman of 28 might VOLUNTEER to work for her mother's advantage. Imagine that!

And please don't make an Imus comparison.

I wouldn't call it bought off, but yes superdelegates are often offered positions in new administrations. I hope the DNC doesn't chenge the rules at the end of the primaries. What about Florida and Michigan, good luck winning those states Barak if they get shut out of the Convention.

Big Head DC has learned from sources inside the MSNBC camp that Phil Griffin, senior vice president at the network, “screamed” at reporter David Shuster for not agreeing to immediately apologize to Chelsea Clinton for saying on-air she had been “pimped out” by her mom’s campaign. Griffin threatened to fire Shuster “on the spot,” and it was only with intervention from Tim Russert that Shuster didn’t lose his position.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2008/02/10/was-david-shuster-very-close-getting-fired-over-chelsea

Shuster has gone from CNN, to FOX, to MSNBC, and now to the unemployment line. He isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer for saying what he said.

vote republican? oh THAT'll get ya out of iraq!!

When should we get Maine results? Any polls there?

Babs and Ray

"When its cryin' time"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-magrm3Voo

Jack

Liberal Media Bias? Are they serious? The media are as liberal as the conservative organizations that own them. Honestly Newbusters needs some media literacy.

http://www.fair.org

Let the jokes begin. The WRiters' Guild has reached an agreement. There will be a vote on Tuesday as to whether or not the strike will be lifted and they might go back to work on Wednesday.

Ten Days later they will vote on the Contract.

I'd rather have a Commander in Chief that is qualified. Love him or hate him, Mccain is qualified to do the job, as is Hillary. Barak just doesn't know what he's doing. Like Bush. See how well that turned out.

for Jack

Closin Time :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrPEM2qc-j8

geeze..ya really do get the govt ya deserve..

Well-informed audiences come from cable (Daily Show/Colbert Report,
http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=319

With the writter's strike ending, I wonder how that will change the media's outlook on the election. The voters too!!

I spoke with my Aunt last night who Caucused in West Seattle. She said that at the beginning they had 19 delegates for Obama, 13 for Hillary and 9 undecideds. By the end they were nearly even Steven. She said that both Obama and Hillary supporters gave compelling speeches but that the majority of the Obama speeches were about his electability and those in support of Hillary focused on issues. Finally a very strong female speaker spoke about Hillary and basically said: "We need to vote on the issues. February is way too early to be completely focused on electability." (She said it more eloquently than this but you get the gist.)

My friend on Bainbridge Island was in a room with about 200 Obama supporters and a handful of Hillary supporters. She said the speeches were about the same. Hillary too divisive. Obama hopeful. MSM doing all the talking.

I think Obama would end up ok in the end should he get the nomination JohnnyG. McCain is just a step or two above fascist. And there really are two extremely important words not to forget when deciding not to vote in this election or voting for another side:

SUPREME COURT

The main thrust of Senator Clinton's speech (broadcast on CNN today) seemed to be that Americans could solve problems because they always have. It seemed to be an endorsement of "the old way" (i.e., 1992-2000) rather than a look forward and a willingness to face current and upcoming problems with new methods and new solutions.

Also, the more she speaks, and the more hoarse she becomes, the more her voice becomes irritating. And after seven years of listening to Mr. Bush's irritating whine, I don't want to cringe every time another White House soundbite is broadcast on the evening news.

Plus, just because the Republicans believe that they have so few attractive candidates that they have to run several members of the same (repugnant) Bush family doesn't mean that Democrats have to stoop to their level. Democrats are better than that.

For those who were disgusted when a second Bush was forced upon us, the thought of a second Clinton should ring the same alarm bells. It just seems borderline illegal, if not technically wrong. It gives too much temptation to arrange deals that benefit one family, for instance through arrangements with The Carlyle Group or Halliburton, that will bring financial rewards to one family for decades or generations.

It is time to move on (since Congress refuses to do its job and will not impeach Mr. Bush and repudiate his inane, illegal acts) and move forward, reaching for new solutions rather than resorting to more of the same.

Russert should have stayed out of it. It would have been better for everyone.....oh, except Shuster.

That's true Euro Tom. November is a long way off. Maybe I'll calm down by then.

Wow..i got caught in the halls of Newsbusters.. that is one weird place...

benjamin, with all do respect, I totally DISAGREE...

I think having Hillary as president would be a great asset. And the comment about her voice was just rude.

it ain't over til its over Johnny. I still believe Hillary can and will win the nomination. If she doesn't, well, then we have time to adjust to Mr. Obama and I am sure that would be easier than most think. Unity after the nomination is crucial.

"SUPREME COURT"

I may have to embroider and frame that word and hang it above my desk from now until November. :-)

Hmmmmm....90s good. Last 7 years bad. What to do. What to do.

tylenol, get out of the halls of NewBusters and check out Fairness and Accuracy In Media: http://www.fair.org . They always had this cool 1/2 hour weekly radio program called COUNTERSPIN which took on the assertions of the mainstream media. I don't know if the program is still running.

PBS is showing a program on restaurants across the USA and they hot dogs they serve. Making me hungry for Nathan's in Brooklyn!

How many supreme Court Justices are looking to retire in the next 4 years?

Appropriations Committee - Sen. Robert Byrd
Judiciary Committee - Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont
Budget Committee - Sen. Kent Conrad of North Dakota
Foreign Relations Committee - Sen. Joseph Biden of Delaware
Budget Committee - Sen. Kent Conrad of North Dakota
Homeland Security Committee- Sen. Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut
Armed Forces Committee - Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan
Environment & Public Works Committee - Sen. Barbara Boxer of California
Health, Education, Labor & Pensions Committee - Sen. Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts
Energy & Natural Resources Committee - Sen. Jeff Bingaman of New Mexico

There they are the old Bulls in charge of the work in the Senate. If they don't want it, it ain't gettin' done. All the candidates are running on change but how do you get change past these Senators. There is my problem with the Change idealist. They never take into account that the president can only propose and talk pretty. Can any of you Clinton or Obama supporters show how they can move these bulls in the direction needed to accomplish the change they want?

Jack

Snouts. ears, connective tissue and blood clots on a bun. Mmm. Gootta love Nathans.

At my office parking garage, there is a car two spots to the right.
The bumper sticker says:

"A woman's place is in a house. Just not the White House"

When I see that - I realize what HRC is up against. I am reminded about all those men, who are closest sexists.
I am reminded that every woman in the world has to deal with sexism on a daily basis.

I wonder, what happen to these men to make them think this way?

Ally

That was classic. Sometimes the shortests posts are the best.

The point about change is this: No President should be able to evolve huge amount of change without the other branches. An overly powerful Executive is exactly how we got into this mess. So I agree with you Jack, there will not and cannot be the kind of "Change" being promised.

However, as PJ O'Rourke said on Bill Maher on Friday night. Republicans are much more afraid of Hillary winning because she is going to cost them more. As in, she know how the work the system to get what she wants.

Bumper sticker philosophy of the day.

Seen yesterday in the back window of a pickup truck

" DON'T ASK ME, MY GIVE A DAMNS BUSTED"

Jack

I just got this from a woman I knew in college at Evergreen. This is her report of the caucus:

"i went to the local caucus and it was like lord of the flies. i've been relatively split, but decided to support hillary on the grounds of mandated universal health care, and the fact that i find perseverance to be a virtue. i actually thought cher's thoughts on obama being a little like jimmy carter were really interesting. can't say the obama surge hasn't swayed or invigorated me at all, but the caucus was crazy. obama supporters were tearing down clinton signs and putting stickers on them. they all had stickers on their chests. i'm just not much for signs and buttons and stickers, and it all felt a little like a crowd mentality thing. no dis on obama, it was just weird. one guy had some sign saying 'no more kings and queens' with a picture of gw and hrc. a lot of 'dynasty' talk. all in all, we got 1 of the 7 delegates from our precinct for hillary, and three of us were under 40. the rest were the stereotypical older women, and one older man. funny thing is the only black person there had a hillary button. olympia! the white guilt is palpable here."

unlikely_burrito: That is really, really scary. I can't imagine a world where someone would feel safe driving around with that on their bumper. The fact that they feel safe doing so proves your point.

EuroTom: Ditto on the white guilt thing on Bainbridge Island. I'll not elaborate but if you know the demographic on that island, it will make sense.

Typo correction: As in, she knows how to work the system to get what she wants.

Ally - it's a world where women aren't "armed"..oh i mean "in power."

Hi folks...after reading all the comments here about how inappropriate and borderline "arrogant" Obama's speech at the Jefferson-Jackson dinner was last night, I had to go back and viewed the raw 30-minute loop just now. I missed it when it was on live last night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hUngQ8-wLU

I have to say, even as someone who favors Hillary, I saw nothing inappropriate about his speech. It was a fine political speech in its totality. He tipped his hat to Hillary early on -- saying they were friends before and will be friends after. He spent time in the middle third drawing contrasts between what he said his style of leadership would be versus what hers might be (I mean, hey, this is a competetive race after all). But he spent most of his rhetorical fire trashing the disaster of the past eight years. In all, it's pretty much what I would expect a candidate in the heat of a nomination fight to say to a Democratic political dinner.

The crowd's persistent chants, cheers, hoots and hollers may have seemed like salt in Hillary's wounds -- but I don't think Obama did anything directly to add salt, himself. That was my take, a day later.

Not sure what the cable-heads are highlighting from the speech, so maybe that would explain the perception that his speech was somehow arrogant and inappropriate. But I just didn't see it.

The media so loves Obama that he's transcending again, this time from a politician into a religion. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-080109kass-column,1,2161619.column

If any of you have any conection to the Clinton campaign , could you ask HRC to drop out. It seems she is breaking my little neices heart. My 9 year old niece has had her heart set on being the first woman president. So Hillary if you could, just for a little girl?

Jack

I just got back from the Clinton rally in Manassas VA!!

After standing in line for 3.5 hours...my reward was a front row seat!! I had a blast!!

I took dozens of up close and personal pics of HRC...but I don't know how to post them.

While waiting in line, I also met fellow C-Lister, "vadaryl", along with his wife and daughter!!

I wonderful time was had by all!! {8>{)

Jack LOL !!!!

I am off to bed...

LL -

How early before the event schedule time did you get there?

BTW...I noticed the other night at work that there is a guy at work who looks like Donald Rumsfeld. Of course , he's not as funny looking as the kid at work who looks like Torgo from "Manos: The Hands of Fate".

Edwards Aide: John Having Private Endorsement Discussions With Hillary, Obama; "Greater Than 50% Chance" He'll Endorse
By Greg Sargent - February 10, 2008, 3:23PM

An Edwards aide confirms to me that John Edwards met privately with Hillary on Thursday to discuss the possibility of making an endorsement, and will meet with Obama tomorrow, as first reported by Mark Halperin.

The Edwards aide gave me a bunch more detail, including this: "There's a greater than 50% chance he will endorse." He also said that he's been talking to both on and off for some time, including since he dropped out.

The Edwards aide, who played a key campaign role, confirms that in his private discussion with Hillary, the former North Carolina Senator talked to her about similar concerns he raised with both candidates just before leaving the race. The aide says he talked about "who's going to carry on the mantle of fighting for the voiceless," and is trying to gauge which of the two "will sign their name in blood in order to make that commitment." A second source familiar with the meeting confirmed that it took place.

The Edwards aide cautioned against reading too much into the meetings, saying that he'd been talking to both of them before. "He's torn," the aide said "He has reservations about Hillary, which are pretty apparent."

On Obama, the aide says, Edwards worries "whether he's tough enough to be President of the United States. If you look at what Edwards ran on, which is not negotiating with the special interests, taking away their power, that's pretty different than the Obama model."

The Edwards aide added that Obama's lack of a health care plan with a "mandate" is a "tough hurdle for him to get over." He added, however, that Edwards is much more in line with Obama on other issue

HRC campaign manager resigns.

The event was 12-2.

vadaryl(whom I did not know was vadaryl, at the time)was the first one there at around 8:00. I got there about 8:15. By 8:30 there were maybe only 6-8 people, things were lookin' grim. By 9:00 or so people really started arriving. They opened the doors around 11:30-12(I was too frozen to look at the time..LOLOL!!!). They had a SRO crowd!!

HRC got there about 1:00(I think).

wow that is really cool. I want a good seat when she comes this way....most likely will be freezing too.

Early Maine vote with 11% reporting:
Obama 51%
Clinton 48%

vadaryl was actually on the stage, with a group, right behind HRC!!! If anyone sees any news clips about her rally...look for him...second row...3rd from the left!!!

unlikely_burrrito..where do you live?

Johnny G asked:
"How many supreme Court Justices are looking to retire in the next 4 years?"

A: not enough

"Mayella Ewell " Well I'm not worried about long gone father beating me because I formed an affection for someone of another race.

It's time to stop speaking to you again for a while because the main problem with blogs is that the majority of human communication is actually done with the body not the mouth. Since I can't see your face and you can't see mine, neither one of us knows exactly what the other means.

EdVB-
RE:SCOTUS's;
Or not the right ones!
~g

ohio

Linda! Sounds like a blast...glad you are energized!

I put up my "Manic Monday" early with nannymm's stacked enchiladas. Enjoy

http://jdurward.blogspot.com

Everything indicates that Obama will win Maine by 20-30%, I'm ...with all this said, I find it very likely that Obama will win Maine by a very ... Snow Squalls, Strong Gusts Expected as Dems Gather in Maine for Causes ...
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4518836 - 4 hours ago

Obama campaign said they expect a big win in Maine

I know that somewhere some very serious republicans are ardently supporting the Obama campaign.......however cretinous these gopers might seem, they're at least astute enough to know that :

"Payback is a bitch."
----Larry Flynt

And that's why I'm for Hillary Clinton.....I like her. I hope she wins.

I've seen the "uniters" and "hopers" come and go.....the nice guys and the inspirational meistersingers......give me the hardnosed "get it done" individuals every time....

saw this on TV and under breaking news MSNBC
"HRC campaign manager resigns"

Now can't find anything

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/02/10/653470.aspx

thanks

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/02/10/clinton-campaign-manager-is-replaced/

Check out MSNBC's erroneous caption on their main news photo. The black-haired woman they identify as Patti Solis Doyle is NOT Patti Solis Doyle. That's another Hillary aide who is always at her side. Don't know her name.

They can't even keep the people they're trashing straight:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23099005/

Hillary will rise above the bad bode.......

Ohhhhhhhh..CNN is going to show some of the HRC Manassas rally...watch for vadaryl!!!!

hilarious!!!

I have not heard this before.

On experience, nearly a quarter of Democratic voters picked it as the top attribute, and Obama's weakness in this group is glaring they went 91-5 percent for Clinton.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldnewser/2008/02/the-challenges.html

Hillary will also be on 60 Minutes tonight.

did you see darryl in the red sweater???

Late breaking results from the howling snow-covered wasteland of northern Maine....

One professor in my department is now a Clinton delegate, and another is an Obama delegate. (This brings new meaning to the phrase "faculty politics.")

The Clinton delegate is a poli sci prof, while the Obama delegate is a history prof. (Does this tell us anything?)

The local caucus vote was almost an even split. Clinton got 11 delegates to the state convention, Obama got 12.

I saw darryl...he was holding the Hillary sign, right? Shirt was kind of a berry color?

like a red v neck with glasses on? lol

man, did she nail poor little old minding-her-own-business Tammy Wynette, that one time, or What.........
I felt that one when she said it......I'm sure that that was one for which she sincerely had some regrets......very effective though......lots of play........

LaLi

I wonder how long they had to look to make sure they got both women looking as wild eyed as possible. Whey do we file the FCC complaints?

yeah...over HRC's left shoulder...glasses, red sweater, white tee

He'll be on tv all day in the highlights.

Patti Solis Doyle (the real one from several pages of Google than MSNBC couldn't find)

http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/ap/d1478c81-78a3-4bef-b263-aae5c7dc6bc3.widec.jpg

Hillary covered a lot of territory with that I'm not some goofy little country western singer here sitting in front of you Jack.......I'm here and Im in your face.......

She's strong, ladies and germans.......

I notice even Fox quit showing that clip of Hillary laughing in Chris Wallace's face........

Just saw Obama on CNN in Alexandria. He said that the problem with the least 16 years has been that one side has 47-48%, the other side the same and nobody gets the middle 5%. He is going to bring about real change because he is going to bring over the middle 5% to get a workable majority.

the "cackle" gambit slipped silently somewhere beneath the waves.........

I guess it never occurred to him that the middle 5% do that so that they can get what they want.

Media bias? Yahoo page has this headline: "Obama takes early lead in Maine". There are 7 votes separating the two and 11% of the precincts reporting. I guess technically 7 votes does constitute a lead!

*HRC's right shoulder

unlikely_burrito: excellent point.

Huckabee has sent lawyers to Washington state because the gop stopped counting the vote and declared McBush the winner.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/177841.php

I thought a) he hated lawyers and b) wouldn't it have been easier for Huck to have just talked to his God about his problem.

HI Dog!

Ally: I do think Obama can capture the middle 5% and then some. There are moderate Republicans traveling on their own expense to aid his campaign, and he appeals to independents.

---dog eye

I know that somewhere some very serious republicans are ardently supporting the Obama campaign.......

---sturgeone

I do question the "on their own expense" part, of course........

like, they have, like, all this money and they just want to go to maine and support obama, these idealistic young republicans.......gas? not a problem.....we're ardent young republicans and.......oy......i guess it's like spring break.......maybe their parents are helping some........

oh........well.......never mind.......

BHO wins a Grammy!!

Sweet Jesus...save us all!!!

I might have missed the venue and the personae but something in there was nagging at something......

unceremoniously

lol.sturge..spoken like Gilda Radner :)

Barack Obama now has a Grammy. He and Hillary Clinton have won in the same category. Now you know the Dream Team is fated. They can put them on the 1600 Pennsylvania and Number One Observatory Circle Mantlepieces.

scratch my last post...this is what I meant to post...(the word unceremoniously was actually a word I looked up online)

http://words.yovo.info/2006/02/09/sen-obama-wins-grammy-award/

"man, did she nail poor little old minding-her-own-business Tammy Wynette, that one time, or What.........
I felt that one when she said it......I'm sure that that was one for which she sincerely had some regrets......very effective though......lots of play........"

Sturge.....obviously, since I work in this business, I knew Tammy well -- and was around during that debacle...I'll tell you some of the backstory when I have time to do it.....have to get back to work for a while now...since I have only five weeks to finish this friggin' book. What happens to time?

"4:41 pm Barack Obama just won the "Best Spoken Word Album" Grammy. This has nothing to do with world music, but it is kind of funny - Hillary Clinton won the same award several years ago."

http://worldmusic.about.com/b/2008/02/10/2008-grammy-awards-live-blog.htm

time flies like an arrow.........fruit flies like a banana.....

-----TV Zandt

Here's another question?

Does size matter (size of states that is)?

KGC......I'm putting in a call to Lichtenstein.......I like to stay on top of these questions.......

One has to ponder how ardent of Rebublicans those Obama Rebublicans are.

I can tell you that as an ardent Democrat it would take one heck of a Rebulican to make me start supporting tax cuts for the rich, the invasion/occupation of sovereign nations, union busting, the overturning of Roe vs. Wade, the elimination of social welfare programs and affirmative action, lowering corporate taxes and no federal funding for stem-cell research just to name a few.

oh cmon..size always matters..

KGC: Is that a trick question?

Michelle Obama is going to be on Larry King Live on Monday....unfortunate choice of interviewers but I look forward to hearing her.

I thought the matter of size mattering had been laid to rest, much like racism......

On cable right now...
CNN is covering Maine's caucuses and...
MSNBC is doing (yet another) show about prisons.

CNN wants to attract viewers excited by politics.

MSNBC is going after viewers excited by tattoos, beatings, and homosexual rape.

Obama 57% now in Maine....HRC is at 42% with 59% of the vote in....

Now that IS a lead.

Ally
Not really. It's the question (put rudely) Craig Crawford addressed. Especially if Clinton goes on to win in Ohio, Texas and Penn. Particularly if the big blue states prefer her and the smaller states that are unlikely to be blue prefer him.

Ohio went blue in 2006 and it probably isn't going back anytime soon. The mayors of Canton and Columbus both turned over to Democrats in 2007. The republicans abandoned Columbus to try to save Canton and could not.

I think Dean will stick with the fifty state strategy but all they need is to carry the states Kerry did and Ohio. So who gives the best chance of doing that?

pssst..sturge.. we lie..

Nash.....reminds me of preachers admonishing me minute after interminable minute sunday mornings on the unadulterated undiluted horrors of hell.......

They were referred to as very serious Rebublicans ardently supporting Obama. So do very serious Republicans stand only on fiscal responsiblity, strong immigration laws and national security? If that is the case, how does Obama's message fit within that platform? Former GOP, yes. Moderates, yes. Very serious Republicans? I doubt it.

Obama money: small donations from ordinary people

Clinton money: large donations from lobbyists.

The big corporations think Hillary is going to win so the bucks are rolling in (and the deals are being made).

Like Bill she will give the corporations everything that they want, while making a few meaningless symbolic gestures toward progressive causes.

The MSM will refer to these as "Liberal Policies."

KGC: Totally agree. I was just saying that you can call it a lead now...not when he was 7 votes ahead. I thought that was overreaching a bit.

Tyl.....my views on that matter ("we lie") are best summed up in the Charles Schultz series of Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown to run and kick.

Ally.....they stand only for a GOP win in 2008.

yep...football ..and size..

Sturgeone: Yikes!

Brain: MSNBC should mix politics, beatings, tattoos, and homosexual rape. Now that's a winning formula.

I want to see Huckabee rubbing baby oil all over Obama.

I want to see Hillary dressed as a dominatrix standing over John McCain in a tight leather corset, which reveals his Japanese Yakusa tattoos.

That lead is a mere 349 votes.

[[ to Chris Wallace: "You're the pundit. I'm just a simple president."

all pundits need that on a refrigerator magnet

Posted by: Craig Crawford ]]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

...i've been saying Bush43 is a simple m*****fu**er for years now.

dog
It's proportional all the way. So they are going to be close and neither will have enough delegates.

Democrats know we can carry the states Kerry carried and I think Ohio is safe. The question is who can best carry the big blue states?

JohnnyG:

I have not doubt that Obama will end the Iraq war, which he has staunchly opposed, from the outset. Obama has made clear that he will still fight aggresively terrorists in Iraq as well as Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Foreign Policy SHOULD be articulated in broad themes - rather than specific details.

I think Hillary talking about have a meeting with the joint chiefs on "day one" and talking about a specific plan - more than a year in advance - is irresponsible. We do not know what the facts on the ground will be at that time and Hillary's "specifics" may turn out to be a "promise" she can't keep.

I want to see Huckabee rubbing baby oil all over Obama.

I want to see Hillary dressed as a dominatrix standing over John McCain in a tight leather corset, which reveals his Japanese Yakusa tattoos.
--nash
____

O......M.....G!!!!!!!!!
--LIL

CNN: Lou Dobbs has Jesse Jackson on. They're talking about infrastructure and jobs.

BORING. They should be talking about voter demographics, vague themes of change, and delegate counts. (You know, the important stuff.)

I trust that Hillary's meeting on "day one" would be one spectacular show of force......I'd pay to see it......

George Bush has a refrigerator magnet that says, "Don't worry. The light goes out when you close the door."

LIL: Years of therapy may remove that image from your mind.

EuroTom wrote:

"I forgot a biggie... as long as most of the money in the USA is held by the top 1% of the population, there will not be much change either."

Obama has talked about raising taxes on the Warren Buffet's of the world. And he did so at the beginning of the campaign.

He is also the candidate that has collected smaller donations from more Americans than everyone. Hillary got into that game late - after she realized her big wigs were not enough to secure her nomination.

Judgement people. I think Obama has bested HRC in this area - both on Iraq and during the nomination process.

Jesse Jackson on CNN:

"Restructure loans, don't repossess homes."

He does know how to coin a phrase.

Small donors for Hillary please stand up

Hi...I'm one. I am scheduled to give a little each month.

My friend and i both gave in the past...gave extra to help the cause this past week.

Will give extra when needed.

I consider it an investment.

I am well under the $2300 cap for the primary.

So...we're not ALL big donors for Hillary - my friends and I are all small donors for Hillary.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

Obama has talked about raising taxes on the Warren Buffet's of the world. And he did so at the beginning of the campaign.

---warren

".......has talked about......." being the operative phrase.

"Look, whaddya talk, whaddya talk, whaddya talk......but you Gotta. Know. The. Territory."

---Merideth Willson

Jamie:

"Just saying something exists and that voting patterns are likely to reflect that reality is not racist."

No Jamie - but I think it is the politics of yesterday that Pat Buchanon so effectively defends. I think Obama can show - with help from a new generation that is not nearly as divided as its parents and a message that appeals to all - that we can do better.

OK...I'm watching the interview w/POTUS for a second time today (yikes) and I just heard something I missed the first time (probably because I was posting here)
POTUS questions Obama's strength on the issues...
while being somewhat complimentary to HRC and defending Bill C. The GOP must REALLY be afraid of Obama.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/home_top_stories/20080210_Keeping_campaign_money_flowing.html

this is about fundraising for Clinton and Obama in Pa kind of blows apart the idea that all the money just flows in over the internet. They admit the Obama people are more and more tapped out.

The GOP likes Hillary. They can do business with her, if she wins.

They are afraid of Obama's potential to become a real populist, to create a movement towards an FDR-type "New Deal."

Investment tax rates and income tax rates are different.

Warren Buffet makes money from investments.

Too many politicians, like to mix the two up to make a point.

I told my cabinet making partner today.....people can have the exact same data and draw one conclusion or another.......whether the flooring should run vertically or horizontally , for instance.........one person of limited perspective will see the data and draw the conclusion that it should run horizontal.......(horizontal and vertical being relative to the situation) ..........so one guy sees the data, and decides horizontal.......because of one reason giving weight over another......then the floor guy comes in and says......"With all due respect if you lay it horizontal, you're nuts" (for any number of valid reasons........soooooooooooooooo

the gop likes Hillary.????????????? I thought they hated her and the reason everyone likes Obama is because he brings the two together.

geeeze which is it?

Hey.......if bush disses ya, yer in like Flynn........

KGC-
I think they are under the mistaken opinion they can beat HRC...and it will be harder to go negative on Obama's record.
~g

wow

Length or Width?

"while being somewhat complimentary to HRC and defending Bill C. The GOP must REALLY be afraid of Obama."

There is a devious alternate possibility. If they praise Clinton, Democrats will vote for Obama and they think Obama will be the easiest to destroy.

It's a better idea to vote for the person YOU think will do a good job and defeat Republicans, because you will never get to the bottom of the garbage Republicans can toss around.

Obama: New Deal.
Clinton: Same Deal.
Edwards: I've MADE my Deal (VP).
Huckabee: Faith Heal.
McCain: Break the seventh Seal!

Jamie: I agree with you. I think it is all a big set-up (this whole, "Obama will be a more difficult opponent" rigamarole.)

u-burrito:

I LOVE Warren Buffet's song "Margaritaville."

I liked Warren Buffet in "Stripes" on top of that SUV.....hilarious guy

Does Size Matter?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7JP1XDmEcY

Ron Paul........Let the beaurocrats reel.....

Craig, all I understand about the political process and elections is that there's a lot that I don't know about going on behind the scenes.

tt

Just an observation I have about Obama's speech last night because i don't think people really ever look at the real content of it. There are a few other speeches where he does something very similar

Middle of speech
“…last six polls in a row show I’m the strongest against John McCain…”

End of speech
“The democratic party has always been at its best when we lead not by polls but by principles. Not by calculation but by conviction…”

OK...so I'm confused here. Are we supposed to vote for him because the current polls say him can beat John McCain or are we supposed to vote for the person that we feel shares our convictions and principals.

Is this what is known as flip-flopping?

"We really don't care who you nominate. We're going to slime them so bad their own family won't vote for them."
-Karl Rove
(In a cocoon, waiting to burst forth like one of those moths in the "Silence of the Lambs." )

Corey, LMAO!

tt

sorry about the typo

I met "he" can beat John McCain

ARGH on the typos

"Stepped on a pop-top
blew out my flip-flop."
-Mitt Romney
Wasting away in Key West with a tattooed lifeguard in a black leather Speedo.

i understand mccain and rove are examining spoor samples...........

AP projects Obama to win Maine...
wow, really poor performances in Caucases....no small donor base until recently...I wonder if HRC waited to long to replace the leader of her campaign?

The Clinton campaign has been very gentle in attacking Obama, the Repubs will not hold back. About Dem party unity.

"Some people say that there's a woman to blame,
but I know,
It's my own damn fault."
-Bill (robbed of my second term by "that woman") Clinton

Gidget: As Maine goes, so goes Nova Scotia.

http://www.barelypolitical.com/

Just saw this on the news. Click on the Super Obama Girl video.

I may leave the democratic party after this election. I'm dissapointed on both sides. I'm black and the racism by blacks and whites in this party is truly showing. It's sad that nation wide the Clintons have lost the black vote 90% to 10%. I know personally several blacks in New Orleans told me to vote for Obama because he is black. How stupid is that??? My black friends in a general election you can't block vote Obama to the white house. Trust me the republicans will turn out. The media will turn on Obama and turn Saint MCCain into the experienced war hero and ignore his flip flops. The same media that while he is running against Hillary Clinton said experience is not important will then tout Maverick MCCains unwavering experience. All the red states that Obama won in "caucuses" in a general election will turn crayola red. In a lot of blogs I'm starting to see Hillary supporters say they might not even support Obama if he wins because Obama's wife said the other day if Hillary wins she is not sure she can support Hillary. This is getting out of hand in a year where everything is supposed to go the Dems way.

I think Hillary is the one who has used crutches. First it was Bill Clinton. I don't care if she personally never said a thing to that effect - at the start of the campaign - many people I talked to cited Bill Clinton as a one of the reasons they would vote for her.

Now there is talk that she will need Obama or Edwards as VP to ensure that she can win the general.

Obama vs Clinton?
I don't have a dog in this fight.
-Michael Vick
(Getting a real nice tattoo.)

Small Donors club here as well. Apparently $10 Mil of us in a few days on line isn't bad. She just needed to let us know we were needed. :-)

LB...about the Obama speech...polls vs. principles...supposed internal contradictions...and all that. I think your analysis, like so much of the nitpicking that goes on between posters on all sides here, is way too lawyerly. And this is politics, not law.

What you are describing is no puzzle -- it's nothing more than standard cognitive dissonance, that's all. Any politician worth his or her salt must be a master of it. It's part of the magic of politics. How else could little rich kids like FDR and JFK convince whole populations of lunch-bucket Americans that they were men of the people and on their side?

Like I said in my own comments on Obama's speech way up higher -- I thought it was fine. It was a perfectly appropriate political speech at a political event, and I can imagine that if I were an Obama backer I would have actually been thrilled by it. So I'm not sure why everyone wants to parse it to death. And that's coming from someone who is a Clinton backer.

Underdog and winner are two different terms. And they are not mutually exclusive.

The Giants were the underdog and they won.

In the words of the immortal Mitch Hedberg.. this string seems to have taken a nasty turn..

I think both of these candidates are wonderful..and they're not so far apart on issues that anyone can say "oh i'd never vote for him/her". Just stop it.. if you WANT Reps to win in November keep saying you'll stay home or vote McCain. For the love of GOD, it's McCAIN!!

Shake-up at the Clinton Campaign.

They're replacing all the female staffers that have had sex with Bill, with ones who haven't.

Corey,

Coupling has to be one of the all time funniest shows ever. What waa amazing was that it deservedly flopped in the U.S. even using the exact same scripts. American's just can't quite get British humor right.

Now The Office seems to be working but they are using different situations more attuned to American culture.

BHO and HRC on 60 minutes

warren,
Military service is not the only form of public service. People can volunteer for the peace corps, at hospitals and homeless shelters, etc.

This is true, but the question remains, "will they?". One major stumbling block is the military, although small in comparison to their counterparts is the private sector, do receive a pay check. Volunteers in the private sectors usually do not receive a pay check. So is Obama going to pay for volunteers, if so where will the money come from, and 2 what will some unions have to say about this? There is nothing preventing anyone today from volunteering at hospitals, homeless shelters, drug rehab programs etc that I know of , except maybe a felony conviction.

My guess on these caucus losses is that the Clintons have never been up against a true Chicago ward healer

Speaking of British Shows. BBC America is showing the BAFTA Awards tonight.

Jamie...whether "ward healer" is intentional or just a typo, it's the greatest pun I've seen to date on this board.
I love it! Perfect description.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riOnVUJAo3k

One more cowment

Senator Obama has turned down Senator Clinton's offer to appear together at a Maine town hall event in the name of party unity and a discussion of the issues. Wonder why?

http://tomwatson.typepad.com/tom_watson/2008/02/obama-turning-t.html

Some insurgent. Apparently Barack Obama wants to run a Rose Garden strategy now, limiting his debates with Hillary Clinton to one before the next big round of primaries on March 4th.

FryDaddy:

I cannot answer you question with certainty - but I think it would be a tragic mistake to throw away the possibility based on what the cynics may tell you.

Right now - there are many people - both young and old being inspired to participate in this election due to Obama - you have seen the accounts of the caucuses on this board.

I do not think it is wildly unrealistic that we can parlay that energy into a positve improvement in terms of public service.

I hope you many of you saw Obama on 60 mintues. If not, get it on you tube. He directly addressed many of the questions raised on this board.

Talk about arrogance - Hillary just said this "is really serious business."

As an Obama supporter - I am offended by this statement that makes light of Obama and his supporters.

I have been paying attention to these issues for awhile now. I know how serious this election is and how serious the work will be when Obama gets elected.

LaLi

Well I'll just heel and toe my way into the spotlight for a well deserved bow. :-)

WARREN,

You really hate Hillary ehh

The demographics of Obama supporters favor him in the caucus system.

Warren...if that's all it takes to offend you, rub a little castor oil into your skin. That'll thicken it up.

LOL@LL

I have had a problem with condescending people all my life.

Here's what happened here today.

http://www.wzzm13.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=87486

Dsouth,

Your 6:59 PM comments are something I have been saying all along. I have been following this race fairly closely and have noticed one recurring theme. Almost everytime the MSM interviews a Afro American and inquires of them who they voted for, more times than not they their answer is always the same, "Obama". No foul, their vote, their choice. But when the MSM ask why the answer is always the same, 'because he represents change.' If I were part of the MSM my follow-up question to them might be, "and what is that change you are expecting?" The MSM doesn't ask so there is no answer, but I do find it odd that 90% of the Afro American voters are voting for Obama. If 90% of the whites voted for HRC how would the MSM report their motivation?

Obama supporters are "Blinded by Hope".

Dsouth

Warrens just young and in love. He is defending his love;-)

LAL
About your proposal last night , I talked it over with the wife. She said she is not sharing. So tough luck buddy maybe next time.

Jack

Warren, re "condescending":

"The prostrate lion, when he lowest lies,
But kneels to conquer, and but stoops to rise."

Beware Texas and Ohio, my friend.

LL
Castor oil? Rub it on your skin? Here all this time I thought you were suppose to drink it. That is some nasty stuff.

Jack...as long as you keep sharing recipes here, especially for leftovers, tell your wife I'll be happy with a strictly platonic relationship. :)

LAL

So why haven't you stopped by to say hi on my blog and pick up nannymm's Enchiladas

Maryland, and DC are a given for Obama, but VA might play a lot closer than many people might think. Texas-Ohio will go into Hill's camp. And don't forget FL & MI. That is a fight which has not been settled.

Jamie...I'm what I would describe as a "retarded foodie." I love talking about food and love the act of cooking, but still I possess only rudimentary cooking skills. Maybe your blog would help. :)

FryDaddy...maybe I should have said 30 weight motor oil.

From tylenol.

"I just wanted to comment on what Karolenna said.. to even entertain the idea of sitting out the election because your candidate didnt get the nomination is idiotic... what was that.. a threat? are you going to hold your breath till you turn blue? If you and others stay home you GET the government you deserve”

What do you think I’m going to do? Roll on the floor and kick up my heels, screen, cry and turn blue?

No Tylenol, I don’t need to threat. The election will prove me correct if she is the nominee when she loses to the R’s because the independents won’t vote for her. Rove has already said he will help McCain, so that in itself means dirty tricks. The younger voters, who Obama has brought out, probably won’t vote for her. They know Rove’s dirty tricks. Those white males who have “always” hated her won’t vote for her. Even Colin Powell, with Blitzer this morning, said he (as a Republican) had not made up his mind, but he alluded to seeking a person who would talk with our enemies, something Clinton has said she would not do and Obama said he would do. That would be the person for whom he would vote, don’t you think?

I see no difference in HRC and McCain. Only difference I see are those judges he would appoint and the mention of staying in Iraq for 100+ years. But, both of those candidates are one in the same. She’s ole politics. He’s old politics. That’s why I’m an Obama supporter and will be to the end because he is new and intelligent with new ideas. I won’t vote for R or D if I don’t believe in them. I vote for the person. That person is Obama. By the voters to date, that would seem they agree with me.

It is now (if you read the real true polling sites that don’t include Florida, Michigan and the super delegates) it is:

Clinton: 895

Obama: 943

And, I’m not even sure those includes Maine!!! Another win there today for Obama. I’m also looking forward to an Edwards endorsement after he and Obama meet.

If we go to super delegates and the frontrunner doesn’t get the nod, look for another ’68!!!

I just think Clinton's condescending tone tells an even deeper story. Similar to Bush, that type of attitude leads to ignoring the red flags that are going up all over the place.

Red Flags:

-Super Tues came and went - Obama is still here and getting stronger

-$5M "loan" - (what does that mean - is she going to take $5M back from her supporters??)

-Campaign Manager fired

-4 straight losses - with no close calls

Instead of hearing Clinton or anyone on this board doing some serious reflection on her message - I hear claims of media bias and an unfair caucus system.

And then I am given this line about things being "serious." To me that implies once people really start paying attention - Clinton will do better. Or that Obama supporters are naive and all caught up in that meaningless hope and inspiration.

People have been paying attention for a long time. And after the Bush years - people desparely want some hope and inspiration - not just more partisan battles.

Lal

"The prostrate lion, when he lowest lies,
But kneels to conquer, and but stoops to rise."

Terribly apropos to quote She Stoops To Conquer

Love it when you get literate on us.

LL,

I think 30 weight might taste better. Off to make some popcorn and get ready for The Wire.

Oh Jamie you are going to freak-out when I tell you this. I sent HRC $10. Hell I haven't even sent John McCain any money. Last politician i gave money to was, Bob Dole.

Warren. I hear what you're saying. But I do think that a lot of the enthusiasm over Obama is coming from people who are simply going to check out and stop caring again once the election excitement is over. (Present company, as always, excluded). And I'm not sure how that equals a political mandate for anything.

Now, that said, to give you a good talking point, you should go find Wolf Blitzer's interview with Colin Powell today, if you didn't already watch it. It was actually excellent. And Powell actually ENDORSED Obama's much-criticized statement about reaching out and talking to our enemies, like Iran and North Korea. I think it was quite a coup for Obama...especially since it involved Powell implicitly slapping his old bosses (Cheney and Bush) squarely in the face. Check it out.

The story is about an officer in The Salvation Army, Major Barbara Undershaft, who becomes disillusioned by social ills and the willingness of her Christian denomination to accept money from armament manufacturers, which includes her own father.

Jamie...like Bart Simpson writing on the chalkboard, I can only say: "I will not propose to Jamie again. I will not propose to Jamie again. I will not propose to Jamie again."

But I LOVE you for ferreting out that reference. :)

LL: Thanks. I did see that interview. I agree that Powell's endorsement provides a good talking point - but being a foreign policy nut myself - I never had any doubts on the wisdom of Obama's stance.

Warren, Powell basically dissed the Bush/Cheney doctrine of demonzing enemies as grade-school foreign policy. And he said strong countries show their strength by talking to weaker adversaries and telling them what we want, constantly.

So....if you pair that with Obama's similar remarks in his Jefferson-Jackson speech last night, it looks like he and Powell actually might be talking on the phone at night.

Lal

If it will help you resist, In 20 days I'll be singing "When I'm 64" for the last time as I will have arrived.

Jamie will like this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VMYlJv3VVk

Karolenna,

Not trying to convert you, but Hillary didn't say she wouldn't talk to our enemies. Her point was that she would make sure there were some potential benefits before she as President would agree to a summit.

I didn't disagree with Senator Obama's answer on this one, but felt it necessary to clarify what Hillary was saying in that debate.

Similarly, Senator McCain's 100 year statement is being grossly over-played. I differ with him on what the "mission" should be, but understand that he wants to stay until the job is done.

Jamie...please give me a break. I thought Kate Winslet was pretty hot in "Titanic", but not NEARLY as attractive and desirable as the actress who, at the end, dropped the gem back into the ocean. So you're only getting better.

Okay...I'm shutting up now, before Tylenol busts me again.

Corey,

The Sammy Davis version is already on my blog. It is my absolute favorite song for a whole variety of reasons. Thank you.

I think it would be great to have Colin Powell involved in Obama's administration. I know this might be too much for the hyper-partisans - but I think it would be good for the country and would give Obama's positions some gravitas with Republican law makers.

On a related note, I have also heard Chuck Hegel say some really intelligent things about Iraq and he has courageously stood against the Bush Doctrine.

I agree McCain's 100-years of wars is being overplayed. And I have been guilty of that myself. It is just that McCain provides some juicy tidbits because he often says what he means instead of playing politics.

Obviously the Dems will need to deal with McCain's real policy rather than a caricature.

In that same interview, Colin Powell listed many qualities that he would be looking for in a candidate. Experience was one of them. So was vision. I got the sense that he will be weighing each of the candidates very carefully. In the end, I suspect he will decide based on a balance of the pros and cons of each.

Remember Powell at the UN? He played a big part in getting us into the Iraq mess.

God bless Cyndi Lauper.............

GORDO, that's why I think he will be very cautious before he endorses anyone.

Jamie , I saw that. That's why I posted the Chris Botti/Sting version. I just like the way Sting looks at Chris Botti after he serenaded his wife.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hGlYT38DZY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGdLYdkRoAg&feature=related

Bill Press :

"It began with the networks' deciding which candidates were serious and which were not -- and therefore ignoring qualified contenders like Joe Biden or Ron Paul. It continued with the media's admitted infatuation with John McCain and Barack Obama. It culminated with the media's declaring open season on the Clintons. In contrast to fawning reports about Obama crowds, every story about the Clinton campaign is sprinkled with snide, critical, even crude, comments about Hillary or Bill. Now not even Chelsea is spared."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-press/caught-in-the-middle-of-d_b_85832.html

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pXJy_CQRd2g

Been texting back and forth with a friend of mine from work. The weather sucks here tonight. I think I'm gonna join the masses and stay home tonight. Wind chills of -15 for tonight.

Good Night All: Baftas, 60 minutes, Grammies, book

Tomorrow

The Grammys seem inspired tonight.

Wow, I'm getting in line. It's Morning in America again....from the same folks who gave us Ronald Reagan. Welcome to 1980.

Just have to make a comment about Jamie and others not voting in the General if Obama gets the NOD.

I'm totally shocked after all the promises made on this blog to vote DEM no matter what....I for one will do that and I'm not even a full fledged DEM. I am NOT a Clinton fan and I already said, if she is Nominated, she would get my full blown support and I would join her campaign in some way......wow.....

Blown away and disapointed about broken promises.

one vote, one chance, to vote for who you believe in.....If you do not believe in the candidate, why should you give them your vote?

Is there such a word as TRITTO? We all need to vote...and this year, we need to get behind whomever the Dems nominate!

Quadruplitto. Anybody but the Republican for me too.

As someone strongly opposed to the War in Iraq, I will not soon forget Colin Powell's role in the deception.

My second comment was intended to be a BTW...forgot to type that.

Sheila, Harbor, Ally, etc...
If Hillary is not the nominee, I will support Obama. Any dem is better than a republican. However, that doesn't mean I have to like it. Obama's attitude is annoying me. I wish he would STOP saying that his voters may not support Hillary. And his wife needs to make it clear that she will support the dem nominee no matter who it is.

I believe everyone has a right to vote or not vote.

The reason people get angry when you say you may not vote, is because they don't want "their" candidate to loose. They do not care about individual's right to choose.

Burrito, While everyone has a right to chose whether or not to vote, we also have a responsibility as citizens to try to make our country a better place. By chosing not to vote, one is actually neglecting that responsibility. If my candidate, Hillary Clinton, loses the nomination, I'm not going to act like a spoiled brat, pick up my marbles and go home. I will make the best of it and vote for the best candidate still standing. For me, that candidate will be Obama. Nearly everyone here, truly cares about this election. Not voting accomplishes NOTHING. Please consider this carefully.

A no vote is a vote for the other party and we really don't want to cave in to them.

NEW THREAD

Jamie:

I don't mind what you said.

You have every right to fight for your candidate. At the end of this thing - we will all circle the wagons (even if some dirty looks are thown after the dust settles and the smoke clears...). My wounds are pretty minor and my determination, as is yours, is unshaken.

I think if the candidates and their supporters take the high road and talk about the issues and their visions for the country - this historical race will not hurt the Democrats. Just like Hillary said - we will all be fine - no matter what happens. ; )

But we should avoid any sideshows and this thing needs to get settled before the convention as I suspect it will.

Buenas noches.

Regardless of his faults, McCain is almost without doubt the GOP presidential nominee.

I think if he very soon announced Mitt Romney as his running mate that conservatives would rally around the McCain/Romney ticket and immediately gear up for the fight to defeat the Democratic nominee in November.

http://mittromney.townhall.com