Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Once I saw McCain and Romney on stage together yesterday, I decided there's no way in hell Romney can be the VP pick. Very uncomfortable few minutes.

Great link and a footage of Frank Luntz. He said, Character and attributes were more important to us than just plain issues and patches. he's right.

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Frank_Luntz_enthusiastic_about_Obamas_words_0214.html

Craig,

Obama's launch on the McCain's record was well calculated. I thought the timing was just right. McCain is the REP nominee and so it makes sense that Both Obama and Clinton might take him to task at one point.

BTW,

I agree with your assessment. I just can't see MCain getting votes, except for the Party Base and people who are afraid of a Black man or a woman.

To the obama faithful........."When god wants to punish us, he (or she) answers our prayers."

ready for another gop "king" ?

The Frogs Desiring a King

The Frogs were living as happy as could be in a marshy swamp that just suited them; they went splashing about caring for nobody and nobody troubling with them. But some of them thought that
this was not right, that they should have a king and a proper constitution, so they determined to send up a petition to Jove to give them what they wanted. "Mighty Jove," they cried, "send unto us a king that will rule over us and keep us in order."
Jove laughed at their croaking, and threw down into the swamp a huge Log, which came down splash to the swamp. The Frogs were frightened out of their lives by the commotion made in their midst, and all rushed to the bank to look at the horrible monster; but after a time, seeing that it did not move, one or two of the
boldest of them ventured out towards the Log, and even dared to touch it; still it did not move. Then the greatest hero of the Frogs jumped upon the Log and commenced dancing up and down upon it, thereupon all the Frogs came and did the same; and for some
time the Frogs went about their business every day without taking the slightest notice of their new King Log lying in their midst.
But this did not suit them, so they sent another petition to Jove, and said to him, "We want a real king; one that will really rule over us." Now this made Jove angry, so he sent among them a big Stork that soon set to work gobbling them all up. Then the Frogs repented when too late.

oh......forgot to credit Aesop.......old Eye-Soap.

MSNBC must be falling on hard times these days. As Imus wasn't on this morning I switched over to MSNBC only to watch the weather-girl, Jackie, give her weather outlook report. Unfortunately for poor Jackie, she had to use her laptop computer to show the weather images. Little small blurs. Come on MSNBC spend some money on technology. BTW where is Joe and Mika? Joe is spending a great deal of time away from his MoJo show. This normally not a good sign.

Good morning.

Wasn't able to get on last night and maybe I'm glad I didn't as there was a lot of discourse on the thread.

So before I comment let me wish everyone a belated Happy Valentines Day.

Well McCain voted against a bill outlawing waterboarding and torture so I'm sure we'll hear about his flip flop on torture throughout the general election.

I also see K.O. did another special comment and called Der Fuhrer Adolph Bush a Fascist. I guess that I'm not the only one to think so.

Anyway I got to go and hopefully I'll make it online tonight.

Take care and God Bless.

glad to see some congresspersons have decided to pretend to stand up to the king.......
We'll see how that turns out........

At least Keith Olberman still knows how to stand up to the plate......

I Love, Love, Love Keith Olbermann. Andy Card is now defending Bush. I will never understand the free ride the media gave this administration.

Max......they're still at work undermining our voice....the media, that is........

the "corporate owned media" that is......

Craig, Why is MoJo so empty.....They should have you on the show...

This link is Barry Obama on just about everything. If you think government is to big now, has to much control over your life, look at what Barry has in store for you. If Barry has his way he is going to do this and more, including his Global Poverty Bill where he believes America should be shelling out even more money, and of course the rich(?) whoever they are, will pay for all this. Obama is good looking, nice wife, 2 cute little girls, dresses well, is articulate, can deliver a great speech, BUT lacks experience and common sense. Barry is a empty box wrapped up in pretty paper. As a protest vote against Barry, I'm voting for Hillary in the D's NC primary.

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:haZoOg6SA9EJ:www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm+%22Barack+Obama%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=22&gl=us&client=firefox-a

The corporate owned media pretty much nails it. It is hard to stay hpoeful when truthfulness is hard to come by.

Going to see HBC today. OHB is in town, but at the exact same time, so I had to pick. Should be interesting to see the crowd, very last minute, and it's during working hours.

Unlikey_"the accused"_burrito

Here is the much shorter link to Barry "Mr Change & Hope" Obama.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm

I am a liberal, I like that word. However, Barack Obama is way over the top. Yes, getting out of Iraq will save money and yes the rich should pay more, but that money is needed here. Once again I say, "Hey Barack,
nice speech, where's the beef?"

Think you've got it bad?

From the National Weather Service Caribou, Maine
Today's local forecast...

Snow showers this evening. Breaks in the overcast later. Wind chills may approach -25F. Low -8F. Winds WNW at 10 to 20 mph. Chance of snow 40%.

good morning gang.....

Craig.....
you think Republicans will play dirty tricks?...... Republicans!!???

nah..... that could never happen.....

Uburrito..... enjoy yourself today.....
that's the best way to honor a loved one who's died......

Max,
yes the rich should pay more.

Just curious, in your opinion at what level does one become "rich"? Is it tied to their salary, Warren Buffet doesn't receive a salary, assets, amount of debt, one could be a multi-millionaire and be million of $$$ in debt. HRC has said the rich are the ones making over $250K, is that person or family? Is that a family of 2 or a family of 6? Is someone living in Manhattan making $250K rich, or San Francisco? We know who the poor are, the government has even established a threshold on what constitutes being poor, but "rich" is a word politicians like to throw around, but never clarify their definition/understanding of who is rich. all they keep saying is the "rich" should pay more.

I just pulled a Craig and nearly fell down a flight of stairs. I fell to my side and my arm got locked in the railing on the stairs and I was stuck from my elbow to my underarm. I feel swell right now.

Corey,

Hope you get to feeling better. But if you think it hurts now, wait till tomorrow. Here is some non-medical advise. Put ice on it, take 2 aspirins and call me in the morning. That will be $50 thank you very much.

McCain's biggest problem is his desire to 'get along' with the crowd he's currently with. I saw it South Carolina in '92 when he equivocated on the flag issue. And again in South Carolina last year when the woman made "the Bitch" remark. His willingness to accommodate on the waterboarding issue is another example.

That said, I think if we was in fact elected, he would do the honorable thing if confronted with the same situations.

Let there be no doubt that waterboarding is indeed torture; and, that torture has no place in America.

Is McCain "gaming" the Dems? Great Question. But you have to ask how many "levels" of Machiavellian gaming are going on here.

Is McCain: (a) attacking Obama because he wants to run against him; or (b) does he just want us to THINK that?

Hillary folks might think (a) while Obama folks might think (b).

I think it's (c). McCain always intended to run against Hillary; he has a whole strategy worked out. But Obama is a "wild card." McCain doesn't know how to map out a strategy against him because the Obama campaign appeal is so defuse, so emotional. So he FEARS Obama. He'd rather go against Hillary, a known quantity.

Sometimes things are exactly what they are, which is the ultimate Machiavellian trick.

Just how bad is the economy?

Paul Krugman in today's NYT:

"I like to think of what’s happening as a sort of minor-key reprise of the banking crisis that swept America in 1930 and 1931."

mornin' all.

nash, ay-yuh, sounds like winter in northern Maine.

Corey, klutz :-). Swell is probably the operative word here, like in swelING. Seriously, Fry is almost right -ice and ibuprofen are your best friends.

Yes, McCain had to try and get the base back - so he voted against a bill outlawing what he said is torture. Spin, boy, spin.

BTW, Fry, I believe HRC said that the $250K mark was for a couple, but that may just have been my take on what she said.

Mornin' pogo: Pull up a chair, and put your boots up on the cast iron stove. Just lean your snowshoes against the wall and try not to wake up Uno the Beagle.

Today at the Crawfordslist "Downeast" Cafe, the menu is baked beans, ground beef, onions, and broccoli, smothered in garlic sauce.

That'll keep the damn tourists away.

BTW , that bankruptcy case for Plastech (the company I am supposedly employed by , although unaffected by any of this) that I mentioned two weeks ago is getting pretty nasty. Chrysler wants nothing to do with Plastech now. But , if Chrysler is allowed to remove all their tools and business from Plastech , Plastech will be liquidated completely. Ford and GM will be greatly affected by this. The judge will decide on what Chrysler can do on Tuesday. Should be messy.

This driving tip from the Maine Dept of Transportation...

If you're going to ram your tractor trailer into a motel, try to pick one where three state troopers are NOT spending the night.

http://bangornews.com/news/t/news.aspx?articleid=160209&zoneid=500

Jesse Jackson Jr. Threatens Colleagues as Pandemonium Breaks Out Over Lewis

"However, they don't stop there. Vote for Barack Obama, or you just might "find some young primary challenger" stepping in to take your job. It's hard to know where to start, but considering Jesse Jackson Jr. has done this sort of race baiting before for the Obama campaign, I cannot say that I'm surprised. There is, however, something so offensive about his threat that it smacks of the same type of hierarchical control African Americans, especially John Lewis, have always fought against, only this time it's a black man in the position of power telling people how they must use their vote or else
This will make the average voter recoil. The damage it can do to Obama's candidacy is unquestioned, especially looking into the general election."
http://www.taylormarsh.com/

Krugman is speaking from a position of ignorance.

In the Great Depression some banks became illiquid. They didn't have the cash to satisfy demands from depositors. That, in turn, caused a run on many banks. That caused the major bank failures. Since then, the Federal Government guarantees deposits. People won't lose their insured deposits. Result: No more runs on the banks.

The loan issue is completely separate. Deflation is the mortgage bankers' greatest fear. They see the potential of people walking away from their overvalued over mortgaged homes as their greatest threat.

The FRB's response in aggressively lowering interest rates is essential in this environment. The mortgage bankers, in turn, must aggressively lower the current interest rates they are charging existing borrowers. Those measures (hopefully) will keep people in their homes until there is some sort of recovery.

Should the situation continue to deteriorate, it's theoretically possible that we will see negative interest rates on large loans.

If the Federal Government determines that bailouts of mortgage bankers is necessary, the government should end up owning the bankers. Something like the Chrysler bailout years ago.

yup, nash - it'll keep 'em away now and later. LOL

"Sometimes things are exactly what they are, which is the ultimate Machiavellian trick." You old political philosopher, you.

Corey - if it's a chapter 11, hold tight. If it's a chapter 7, I'd be lookin'.

BTW, I vote for Bernanke for the Oscar in the "Biggest Understatement by a Character in a Supporting Role" category for his pronouncement yesterday that the economy has slowed more than expected. I also think he deserves a nomination for "Most Optimistic line by a Character in a Supporting Role" for his comment that the economy is expected to pick up later this year.

RR
How was the wine? We were drinking nutella martinis
NOT RECOMMENDED.
I have discovered that some zins are not labeled old vine but are anyway. If you ever see zin from Luddite
vineyards they are old vine.

tpm headline:
"Civil Rights Icon John Lewis Switches Super-Delegate Vote From Hillary To Obama"

What a call to Lewis' office turned up:
But the Clinton campaign reported having no word from Lewis on the subject, and a spokeswoman for Lewis, Brenda Jones, said the Times story and a similar one by the Associated Press, saying he was contemplating such a switch, were inaccurate.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/ t...hn_lewis_h.html

Hey Frydaddy,
It is funny Black leaders are now pulling support for Clinton. Now will America see that this is pretty racist? I mean even Obama has pleaded (rather lamely) to Blacks not to vote for him because he is Black. Can you imagine what the media would say if Whites started to vote for Clinton because she is White? It is rather sad and helps McCaiin have one more weapon against Obama. Without the race card, Obama would not have won (if he does). I think this trend will help Hillary in Texas, Ohio and Pennsylvania.

As for McCain prefering Clinton, what utter nonsense. McCain would have a hard time attacking Hillary's record on national security, but how many times do I have to post the litany of questions Obama will look foolish answering? McCain has already said Hillary would be a good President. He has never said that about Obama and Jon would not swift boat Hillary.

McCain needs simply to show how divisive Obama's campaign was in starting the race card. He has nothing to lose because he will not get the Black vote, but the Latino vote will help him very much. The Independents are growing disgusted with the terminal vagueness of Obama's message, his silence on things he should talk about including a boycott of the Olympics to protest the actions of China in Darfur where Blacks have been slaughtered. There is so much going on in Eastern Europe and NATO and as head of the Senate Sub Committee on Foreign Relations in Eastern Europe and NATO, McCain will make his silence look panderingly foolish.

Rezko trial will be going on, and more importantly, McCain can point to the Judicial Watch List and also reveal to Americans how Obama tried to sink the Amnesty Bill by offering an amendment that would have prevented employers from checking the status of workers after Amnesty program was in place. He can also quote Obama's AIPAC speeches, his 2004 speech on Iran and the recent proposal to send troops into the Kyber Pass in Pakistan.

Yes, McCain will have a better time with Obama and Florida will be very pissed about the position Obama took regarding their delegates. I have many friends in Florida who now say they will never vote for Obama. In NY, many Independents feel the same way. If the yellow brick road for Obama meant playing the race card, trashing the Clinton years, avoiding any tough geopolitical problems (not even Russia buzzing our ships or pointing missiles at the Ukraine), then Independents will prefer a McCain forced to deal with a Democratic Congress, rather than a total control by the Democrats powered into the White House by a biased media, false hope, personal attacks, race baiting, avoiding real questions and pandering to the more extreme Left of the Democratic Party.

Republicans should feel relieved if Obama wins the nomination. Unfortunately for Obama, once again I think Hillary will surprise him. He can count on McCain leveling charges that Hillary has been too polite to do as a fellow Democrat. The America people en mass are simply not dumb enough to allow vague rhetoric to decide our future. The last time we made that mistake was in 2000.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/02/14/clinton_supporter_john_lewis_h.html

link for Lewis story

Yes, dear congressional republicans - congress should be spending it's time passing a law that allows the governement to continue to spy on Americans and grants immunity to the telecom companies that operationalize that invasion into our constitutional right to privacy rather than voting to punish administration hacks who defy Congress' constitutional powers in it's oversight role and investigation into potential illegal actions of a corrupt and stupid administration. In a pig's eye. (Note to Boner - you must be skipping your tanning bed appointments - you're looking a little pale).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/14/bush-aides-held-in-contem_n_86713.html

Oh, and congress should also be called out of a memorial service to vote on a meaningless procedural issue.

Frydaddy-Great questions, but the fact remain, when Warren Buffet pays less tax than his secretary there's a problem

nash, that is good advice to OTR truckers - and lord knows, they can use the advice.

Max,

Buffet pays taxes on capital gains, which are taxed at a much lower %. His secretary pays taxes on wages at a much higher %. Buffet is mixing apples with oranges. Trust me if Buffet's source of income was all derived from wages Mr. Buffet would be complaining rather loudly.

Flatus, you may disagree with Krugman's analysis, but he most assuredly is not speaking from a position of ignorance.

Fry, I'm tellin' ya, that voting for Hillary thing could become a habit. I think I just saw a pig fly by my window.

Obama's Chicago Ties Might Fuel `Republican Attack Machine'

"Besides his relationship with indicted businessman Antonin Rezko, Obama might face Republican criticism over contacts with a former leader of the Weather Underground, a banker with ties to a convicted felon and even his church.
``He has had relationships with individuals who are controversial, he has had relationships with individuals who are in trouble,'' said Cindi Canary, director of the Illinois Campaign for Political Reform."
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=washingtonstory&sid=aMzI3I6BAo_U

The polls show that Obama beats McCain so why would he want him to be the Democrat nominee? It doesn't figure. Must be something else going on......

Pogo your contempt for homeland security which Congress does support is rather confirming that favorite line about us being the enemy. And as far as the Consitutiton, please show us where the rights you feel are being trampled are stated.

This is such hyper Left. I do not support torture but Scalia is quite right in saying that the Consitutiton does not prohibit waterboarding on terrorists. Cruel and unusual applies to punishment, not trying to get a terrorist not covered under the Geneva Convention from talking when US citizens lives are on the line. The question is about judicial review of alll interrogations of suspect terrorists. The idea that Republicans have torn up the Constitution comes laregly from those who don't understand what that document says. Even Obama went along with the Patriot Act.

Interrogations and Gitmo do not harm American's life and liberty. It is really that simple. When attacks against us happen shortly after the next President takes office the blame will fall on them. The government has always had special powers to investigate Americans so if you're doing something criminal, I suggest you stop.

Obama doesn't beat McCain in every poll
Florida: McCain 44 percent - Clinton 42 percent
McCain 41 percent - Obama 39 percent

Ohio: McCain 44 percent - Clinton 43 percent
McCain 42 percent - Obama 40 percent

Pennsylvania: Clinton 46 percent - McCain 40 percent
Obama 42 percent - McCain 41 percent
-- source: Quinnipiac University's Swing State Poll
from Trail Mix column yesterday.

Well two can play that game....

Bad nominations won't get through a Democratic Congess. I say go ahead and vote for McCain over Obama, but make sure you vote for a Democratic Congress...

There goes that line of attack.

Think Democratic Congress and don't worry about the Supreme Court. Then elect a better candidate in 2012.

Skylark ---------

Poll numbers change - just snapshots in time.

maxtrue

Our current Democrats in the Senate don't give me much hope they would stop anything. And many of them are not up this time.

I think counting on them is a bad idea.

Amazing

People still quote polls to say that Obama beats McCain.

First, not all polls say that and how accurate have polsters been?

Can anybody think for themselves?

McCain facing a racial divide that nominated Obama will have a huge advantage. That is why Obama started off as color blind. His strategy change however, plays to McCain. That is why Obama's advantage against McCain is dropping.

By the time Obama wins the nomination, if he wins, the polls will come out and say Hillary had a better chance....LOL

Irony is the Democrats catch word.

Maxture,
It is funny Black leaders are now pulling support for Clinton. Now will America see that this is pretty racist? I mean even Obama has pleaded (rather lamely) to Blacks not to vote for him because he is Black.

Obama's words sound so similar to what Br'er Rabbit said to Br'er Fox and Br'er Bear. "Please, oh please don't throw me in dat briar patch!"

I have to give them credit, the Obama team with the aid of the MSM, are having it both ways. Obama is not to be seen as a black man, but if you challenge him, which is Obama code for attacking him, then you are brining race into it. It is obvious to me, but apparently not to many other star struck Obamaiacs.

A Democratic Congress faced with an election in 2010 is hardly going to appoint an arch conservative to SCOTUS. The fear game is just that. McCain was on the gang of 14 and has more bipartisan cred than Obama. I would rather take my chances than watch Obama captiulate to Iran, Russia, Chvez, Hizb'Allah, Kimmie, Assad, and others as we go down the tube, than worry McCain could get through a Bork which was rejected by a Democratic Congress.

It is a matter of weighing the worst possible alternatives. Imagine the Obama administration replaying his campaign of divisiveness. I can't stomach Rove in reverse, can you?

Obama beats McCain in the polls while Mrs. Clinton doesn't so why want BarCK AS HIS OPPONENT? DOESN'T FIGURE......

Dog eye

I am a registeed Independent. No sour grapes here. I WILL vote for the better candidate. I support HRC as an independent and have contributed to the Democrats. That stops when I feel it should stop.

Perhaps Democrats should consider what Independents think. We will decide the outcome I think.

Do you?

I think we established yesterday thanks to Craig's post that Obama supporters only think poll numbers are valid if they favor Obama.

I think we also established yesterday that we shouldn't be making our decision based on Poll numbers or electability

And...as I posted yesterday if we are going to use qualifications as our measuring tool then that is clearly Hillary. We know Obama agrees since he's started quoting her economic policy and claiming it as his own.

I would hope we can all think for ourselves and make our own decisions...the scary thing is that I don't think Obama can - that's why I voted for Hillary.

Pogo, Krugman has chosen to ignore (hence me characterizing his position as one of ignorance) the historical lessons of the Depression that were recognized in the widely embraced theory of Keynesian Economics; that is until academic Boomers sought to make their intellectual mark.

Their Neo-Keynesian constructs ignore the causes that exacerbated the banking and regulatory crises from which the Great Depression emerged.

I'm sure he's a fine human being.

FryDaddy- I am not well versed in the tax code. I would imagine how Buffet gets to line 22 of his 1040 is beyond me. The fact is he pays less than his secretary and that is unfair.

Fry

I have a serious question for you. To my mind income is income. Now I realize that a great deal of capital gains and/or various trust funds, stock holdings and so on were started with money that had already been taxed, but the reinvestment of compounded interest or rise in stock value over a longer period is taxed at a much lower rate if at all. I can understand some sort of cost of living/inflation exclusion, but in fairness, shouldn't the profit over that amount be considered taxable as income? Afterall, if you are "living off the interest", that is an income.

Well there goes the buddy buddy friendship with the son he wishes he had. :-)

Bush 41 endorses McCain.

Hello

I think the Democrats will not regain the White House this year. I may be totally wrong but it seems the divide between Obama and Clinton supporters is growing and whichever side doesn't get the nomination, those candidate's supporters will feel disenfranchised over the entire process and probably just not vote.

Nash....
wow..... that menu gives new meaning to the term "old fart"......

KGC..... the wine was delish!..... it was a Bogle.....

sour grapes...... sour grapes...... sheesh..... why don't some of you just stick your tongues out and do a loud raspberry..... it'd be just as mature.....

Maxtrue..... I think the change that moderates and independents really want to see in the WH is a competent adult.... and not this Republican to Democratic thing..... that's why we who want a Democrat in the WH for 2008 had better be very afraid of McCain, IMO.....

More than ever, the dream team idea makes more sense...it may be the only way to take-on JMc.

Most interesting thing about JMc is his stance on torture. Against most repugs. It will make him popular among dems.

Thank you, dog. That is precisely why I will vote for Obama if he is the nominee.

Maxtrue, your knowledge about the special powers of the US to investigate its citizens is superficial. I was referring tot he FISA bill, and the right being trampled is called the right to privacy. You are like the rest of the misguided folks who think terrorists are somehow special enemies, the surveillance of whom requires that we forfeit our constitutional rights and subject ourselve to the same surveillance that non-American enemies who are arguably not entitled to our constitutional protections receive. It's the government that is treating us as enemies, not me. The right to privacy, while not called that in the Bill of Rights, was determined to be inherent in and essential to the rights guaranteed by the Bill of Rights, specifically the 1st and 4th Amendments, (See Griswold v. Connecticutt) which guarantees

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

With all due respect, FISA violates the 1st amendment right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness and the 4th amendment to the extent that it allows the government to search my "person and house[]" without a warrant and without the specificity required to obtain a warrant. It does not matter that the search is directed at a foreign communication - that is a legal red herring that is of no legal consequence if the search "captures" the conversation of an american citizen. I suggest you try taking a course in constitutional law to correct the focus you have on the right of the government to do anything - the balance between govenment powers and citizen's rights is at the core of this issue, and you have it backwards.

I think we also established yesterday that we shouldn't be making our decision based on Poll numbers or electability.....stated Wendy

And I think we should ignore those exit polls. The lesson we learned in 2000 and 2004 haven't been learned by the MSM.

Hillary has learned to break the glass ceiling. Anyone know the instruction manual on how to break the "black ceiling." This would be a white woman up against a black man for any position. She not only has to fight white males now, but black ones also. A little lesson in sociology would tell you that the black woman is the lowest on the economic scale due to the domination of males in general. (Not all males of course.)

As for McCain, with the lack of sleep and pressure, will he make it through the general election? Who will be left standing at the end of October? McCain may not be the best for our country, but at least we know more about his leadership.

The mess that will be created if the "black" superdelegates start moving towards Mr. Kenya will only being taking the issue back to civil rights and not forward to a unified United States. I think this will hurt more people than it will help in the long run.

And maybe we should start to worry more about the voilence within our own country, especially our educational system. Since the beginning of the year, five schools have been subject to shootings. Our youth may need more than inspiring words to get them on the correct track.

Blonde wino...Haven't pursued a lot of information on this, but I believe JMc voted 'yes' yesterday on a bill that will allow waterboarding, so his popularity relative to his FORMER position on torture may not be so compelling. I need more information, but I'm shocked and disappointed if he has truly changed his position on this.

Dog. Sorry. I meant MOST Obama supporters.

dog.... it isn't just you.....

just getting tired of all the bickering.....

Maxtrue posts are well thought out and full of issues...... maybe you disagree with him..... that's fine by me..... but reducing his posts to sour grapes instead of debating him on his points doesn't serve Obama supporters well, IMO....
it supports his position that Obama and his supporters seem unable to debate the issues....

Dog Eye

The SCOTUS line works for Republicans because they don't control Congress. Your idea that moderate GOP is going to vote for a more Liberal Obama is absurd.

As for Independents, McCain has done more for Amnesty than Obama. He will get much of the latino vote. Independents tend to be less Liberal and foreign policy wonks. Yes, Independents favored sending our troops into the Kyber Pass and talking to Ahmedinejad as he start P-2 enrichment. Sure, sounds like a good plan. Independents favored sanctions. Independents largely support ISrael, national defense and NOT making America a Nanny State with money we don't have.

Independents at the end of the day will move towards McCain not Obama and that is where the Democrats are making a royal mistake. By election time Iraq will not be the firebrand it once was and other national security issues will make Obama's strategy silly if not absurdly vague.

We know how Obama does in debates. With McCain, gloves are off.

"I knew Reagan and JFK, Senator Obama, and you're not either".

ah.... see Pogo's post....

now that's debating issues without resorting to name calling or using immature gestures..... IMO....

OK - perhaps I meant SOME.

Linda- why do you go out of your way to refer to him as Mr. Kenya?

Actually Flatus, I have no idea whether he is a fine human being, although I haven't seen anything that suggests otherwise - but I do know that Krugman is not ignorant of the causes of the banking collapse befor the Great Depression. As I said, you may disagree with his analysis as being Neo Keynsian, but he does not make it out of ignorance.

Max. BTW, the congress does not appoint SCOTUS appointees. The Senate has the role of providing Advice and Consent to the nominees of the president, who if they meet a reasonable level of qualification, will be seated, regardless of their political and legal positions or the majority party in the Senate - Scalia, Thomas, Roberts and Alito are examples of extremely conservative justices approved by a Democratic senate.

It's February folks...history has shown us that it is way too early to gauge "electability". I know it is an overused comparison but Dukakis was 17 points head of Shrub Senior in July of '88.

I chose to vote for the candidate that most closely followed the issues that I hold dear as a working 38-year-old woman with teenage sons who is lucky enough to have food on the table every night and a pretty nice roof over my head. My vote is for the women, men and children in this country who have not been blessed in the ways I have and have been invisible to this administration for the last 7 years.

But we all have the liberty to vote for whatever thing speaks to our OWN hearts and minds.

Renee, I try. ;-)

Pogo

I ask you to visit Stubborn Facts and try that out on Constutuional lawyers. You are largely wrong. If I were to refute your claims, people would be screaming about band width. If you need the link, I will happy to supply it.

"You are like the rest of the misguided folks who think terrorists are somehow special enemies, the surveillance of whom requires that we forfeit our constitutional rights and subject ourselve to the same surveillance that non-American enemies who are arguably not entitled to our constitutional protections receive." wrong

FISA requires judicial review and your quote does not include telecom. Again, too long an issue, but I must say people who are misguided in their understanding of Constitutional law have are very confused. FISA was created before Bush. You are spinning a story that is false. And terrorists are special enemies not even covered under the Geneva Convention. The IC estimates more than a half dozen cells and the lone wolf has raised its head. I suppose actions by our government haven't prevented or surpressed anything..LOL

Again go to Stubborn Facts, sign in and post your comments. There you will have people who know far better than me what the laws actually say in regard to our Constitution. Even Roe was based on privacy and such a poor basis has led to a poorer ruling. I support a woman's right to abort in the second and third trimester, but the legal frame work of Roe is confused. at best. A better solution would be to return the right to prohibit back to the States and require each State to provide transportation of its citizens to States that will perform legal abortion so the poor are not disenfrachised.

If you were such a legal scholar you would understand the weakness of Roe. As far as FISA, our government has always allowed what goes on today under executive powers and warrants. If there is a reasonable connection to terrorists, the government has the power to review telecom calls and banking transactions. Strange how the Constitution does not talk about privacy, certainly not in communications or banking records which were abundant in 1789. If Griswald was the last word and even appliable, SCUTUS would long ago ruled against the Patriot Act and other laws passed before Bush.

dog...
I will vote for Obama if he is the Dem nominee.....
I think those that are saying they will not vote for Obama or Clinton.... depending on their POV..... may change their minds..... if not..... they have the right to vote for whom they want.....

I praised Warren for his posts on Obama because they are simply supporting his chosen candidate without resorting to saying to the other side..... sour grapes, mean spirited hatred, and closed minded.... all the while thinking it's the high ground...... he simply states why he's chosen his candidate...... how refreshing!....

no more tit for tat with you..... I respect you and will do no more bickering on my part..... just asking you to think about it......

How many of the 126 each senate district gets, however, is determined by complex formulae that reward high turnouts of Democrats in the last two elections. And because the six most-heavily Latino senatorial districts have recorded such low turnouts, each will get only three or four national delegates.

Because turnout is much higher in Texas' two most heavily African American districts, in Austin's District 14, and in District 25, one district will get eight national delegates, one will get seven, and two will get six nominating delegates each.

Bottom line: the way Texas assigns delegates might be working against HRC's demographic strengths.

From my vantage point in Austin, though, I can tell you the Clintons' arrival in Texas has been splashy.
http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/15/will-hillarys-latino-advantage-matter-in-texas/#comments

And to turn out the vote in Texas she is sending in the guy who did the good job in Cal -although if it doesn't count as much in Texas shouldn't he be sent to Ohio.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/15/MNS1V2MN2.DTL

Kathy, of all the names, that I could be calling him.........Why does it bother you that I call him Mr. Kenya?

Linda-
just asking why you feel the need to call him anything but his own name or title?

linda in wisc.- I agree with Kathy and it bothers me for the same reason unnecessary digs at Hillary bother me. I think you understand that.

Jamie,

It is how the tax code is set up. Lets say you managed to save $10k. You being a good hard working thirty individual saved this money from your salary. You have already paid taxes on this money at the higher rate, so what incentive is it for you to invest this money where you will be once again taxed at the same rate. For you to make a dime your investment would have to make a 30% profit. Now that is all well and good if you invested in Microsoft back in the early 80's. But the idea of investing is to make money. Not to keep paying taxes on money that has been already taxed at 30%. What Buffet also didn't mention is his tax free muni bond portfolio. One could make the argument these too are sources of income, but no tax or little tax are paid on these investment. Every state, city, county and town depends on the sales of these muni bonds as means to fund projects.

" That is precisely why I will vote for Obama if he is the nominee."

I will too. It will be akin to pulling the level for my favorite Menendez brother, but count me in.

Craig you are right on target as usual. Why is it that only you and Pat Buchanan really know what's going on? Are you guys that much smarter or are you the only ones with guts enough to call it like you see it. If Obamedia is the nominee we're going with McCain. Besides, if Rush hates him so much he can't be all bad.

Kathy,
The same could be asked in why does anyone call someone anything except by their real name? Tweety, MoJo, Mrs. Clinton, bitch, etc.

"ah.... see Pogo's post....

now that's debating issues without resorting to name calling or using immature gestures..... IMO...."

The problem Renee, for me anyway, is I have a few issues that move beyond the pale. I can't be reasoned when it comes to racism, sexism or torture. Just to name 3 that tripped my trigger in here yesterday.
If this was usenet where I could set my news reader to block certain posters I would have sent several people outside to play.
Pogo , I believe is a lawyer, he is used to irrational people. I'm a framer, I'm used to irrational people around me too. But us construction types tend to handle things in a more direct manner.
For me the three issues I listed above are moral issues, I don't have a lot of give when it comes to them.
There are a couple of supporters on each side that don't do their candidates any favor. For the most part they are new arrivals.
I have no problem with honest support and boosterism, Dogs eye veiw , Sheila, Jamie and Patsi all come to mind. This is not a total list there are many more but they are passionate in their support.

Jack

Linda- but I am asking you why you call him Mr. Kenya.

Flatus,

Let there be no doubt that waterboarding is indeed torture; and, that torture has no place in America.

Here is a hypothetical because well all love hypothetical questions. If waterboarding wasn't used on SKM, and all other forms of interrogation failed to get him to reveal the other attacks AQ was planning to launch against American citizens. How many American deaths would you feel comfortable with because we didn't use waterboarding? 1, 10, 100, 1000, 5000? I'm not trying to be be cute about this, but you have to have an idea of how many American death is suitable for not waterboarding when all other attempts fail. BTW it has been widely reported by many in the MSM that it took SKM approximately 15 seconds of waterboarding before he give up the goods, and this saved x amount of American lives. 15 seconds of discomfort and fear to save lives. I don't have a problem with that. And to those who will say but our enemies would be just as brutal to our captive military. My answer to them, the enemy has been much, much worse.

US Navy Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape School (SERE) in San Diego, California uses waterboarding as a form of training. SERE staff were required undergo the waterboard at its fullest. Other military units also undergo waterboarding as part of their training as it is designed to show how an evil totalitarian, enemy would use torture at the slightest whim. The thing to remember, with waterboarding as opposed to what our enemies do to our captured military personnel, with waterboarding although you may believe you are drowning and will die, you don't die. You will die a slow and agonizing death if captured by our enemy. Below is how waterboarding is administered.

Waterboarding is a controlled drowning that, in the American model, occurs under the watch of a doctor, a psychologist, an interrogator and a trained strap-in/strap-out team. It does not simulate drowning, as the lungs are actually filling with water. There is no way to simulate that. The victim is drowning. How much the victim is to drown depends on the desired result (in the form of answers to questions shouted into the victim’s face) and the obstinacy of the subject. A team doctor watches the quantity of water that is ingested and for the physiological signs which show when the drowning effect goes from painful psychological experience, to horrific suffocating punishment to the final death spiral.

Waterboarding is slow motion suffocation with enough time to contemplate the inevitability of black out and expiration –usually the person goes into hysterics on the board. For the uninitiated, it is horrifying to watch and if it goes wrong, it can lead straight to terminal hypoxia. When done right it is controlled death. Its lack of physical scarring allows the victim to recover and be threaten[ed] with its use again and again.

If waterboarding is torture, it is used to save lives, compared to AQ who uses torture for the shear joy of inflicting pain and death. There is just no comparison. I have purposely omitted the some of the torture methods used by AQ from this post as some might find it to unsettling to read, but I will say this much. What you watched on TV several years ago when AQ was severing their hostages heads was in a strange way humane when compared to their normal procedures of administering torture to the captives. Although they died a grisly death, they somewhat quickly.

Craig...1972 strikes fear into the hearts of many old time dems. With Limbaugh campaigning for BHO and Coulter for HRC, it sure is becoming quite a circus. There is a similarity between 1972 and 2008 with a dem delegate battle.

As for names, etc., we are such a sensitive group and I was a bit taken aback by the lack of humor on the posts since Super, Duper, FAT Tuesday. Again, what is so funny about politics, anyway?

Wine buy....Penfolds Regional Selection Shiraz Coonawarra 2003...at $10.98 (alcohol at 14%) a bottle, it is a great buy. Yummy. It is a limited release, but I never can find good wine at ten dollars...so, if you see it -- I recommend buying it.

Bobby Cutts guilty of aggrevated muder.

Obama's African Hubris

"I suppose it is too much to ask of Obama supporters to read the following material and appreciate the arrogance and ignorance displayed by Senator Barack Obama, but folks, it appears he is going to do for Africa what George Bush has done for Iraq. Only worse He is taking sides in a tribal war in Kenya that is on the verge of becoming a Rwanda-like genocide. Really? Let’s start with this uncomfortable fact. The leader of the Kenyan Orange Democratic Movement opposition leader, Raila Odinga, is Barack Obama’s cousin. Barack may not put much stock in the relationship, but tribal allegiances are still strong in Kenya and Barack is clearly viewed as a Luo by his fellow tribesmen."
http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=26929

Max, let's start with this - I don't claim to be "such a legal scholar" and was not arguing Roe, although I understand the criticisms of that decision, which tend to be more about the arbitrary nature of the trimester framework than the origin of the right to privacy, which framework has largely been abandonned at any rate. I do however claim to be a lawyer and have studied the Constitution and Bill of Rights for much longer that I've studied law formally.

I do not have to go to Stubborn Facts to hear right wing positions on the Constitution and I don't plan to go there to debate conservative v. liberal views of the origin of constitutional rights. I can go to the office next door and argue with my right wing republican colleague, which happens all the time. We understand that there are two or more postions on the issue, and we disagree. I can also listen to that great legal scholar Sean Hannity, who after dropping out of college twice holds the same opinion of the srigin of our rights as you appear to.

And I was not talking about abortion, I was talking about privacy. Roe's reasoning is roundly criticized, but Roe was an application of Griswold in the abortion context and has no application to the questions surrounding the constitutionality of FISA. You want to allow the government to listen to your conversations without a warrant? Feel free, but I'm not so cavalier about the rights granted by our constitution and trampled by Bushco. Whether FISA was passed before Bushco sought to abuse it is a red herring akin to a child claiming his offense was ok because the other kids were doing the same thing. There is more at issue here than legal/illegal activities. I regularly converse with clients, some overseas, both by telephone and e-mail, about matters that are confidential, some of which involve the government. Explain to me how the government should have a right to listen to those conversations without any reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing. Let me stop you - there is no justification for it. As for banking transactions, that is a different kettle of fish. The government extensively regulates the banking system, and we have a much more limited expectation of privacy in our banking transactions, and I actually do not object to the government's oversight of that area.

FISA warrants might pass constitutional muster if reasonable consideration of the requested warrants was undertaken by the court. I submit to you that it is not. NO reasonable review of warrant requests would ever result in granting over 99.9% of requested warrants.

At any rate, SCOTUS may one day rule on whether FISA, the Patriot Act (which was a Bushco creation) and other intrusive expansions of government prying into your affairs are constitutional as written or as they are being applied, but the case/controversy requirement and standing issues suggest that it will be years before that occurs, if at all. And the court is not free to review even constitutional issues on its own, whether based on privacy or any other constitutional concern, but were Griswold as weak as you suggest, I suggest that it would have been reversed by now.

And I am spinning nothing. The sticking point on the renewal of FISA (which I contend is unconstitutional, but the court MAY eventually decide that issue) is immunity for the telecoms, not the merits of the bill itself.

But Mr. Kenya introduces a racial tone.......DIV

It is all in the eye of the beholder. It is Senator Clinton, Ms. Clinton, or Hillary.

Did I make my point? Can we move on now?

Someone needs to smack down MSNBC. Can they be more obvious Clinton haters? Or are they just trying to change their record on racism? I haven't seen a poll number since they propped up those inflated polls from Ca. and NJ that so favored Obama. Now that Hillary is shallacking him in Pa. and Oh., you don't see a poll number. Does anyone else see that they are only trying to get on the "Obamacans" train for the "record" because they have been forever known as the "Imus" network.? Anyone remember him? The Imus show that Russert, Matthews, Scarborough, and that idiot Tucker Carlson, who all appeared and kissed "I-man" ass, by the way. Now they can't remember his name. I notice you don't see Craig Crawford on there much anymore, because he's the only who gives Hillary a breatk, and actually tries to talk about issues, and not the fact that Obama can talk like a white guy. MSNBC: the racist anti-racists.

Linda- guess I don't see your point, because you do not type
"Is it Senator Obama, Mr. Obama, or Barack"

Fry, I'm curious - what is the source of that description of waterboarding you cited above?

Dog quoted:

"Think Democratic Congress and don't worry about the Supreme Court. Then elect a better candidate in 2012."

Dog - it does have a sour grape feel to it - I'll admit that. I have to say, however, I've been thinking about this as a strategy I may follow as well. If Obama gets the nom, vote for McCain and get another crack at it with a better candidate for the dems in 2012. The 2012 candidate does not necessarily have to be Hillary - let me just go on the record saying that. But it's still early but it's on the table.

My view is that in November that very quite group of rich Repugs will go to the polls to stop a liberal BHO. I do believe that is "why" HRC has become so moderate. The rich will always protect their money -- that is "why" GWB has stayed in power. He has enriched his cronies during his reign. (Too bad I can't use King George here instead of his initials.)

Wendy!, renee articulated well why you don't want ot vote for McCain in Nov., no matter who the nominee is - Supreme Court Nominee.

Blondie - you talkin' about Dumya?

Pogo

: )

I like Diane, too.

And I am a very rich, I would dare say, wealthy woman, I just don't have the money to back that up.

Dog said:

"But Mr. Kenya introduces a racial tone. Do you not see that?

How about if others start calling HRC "Senator Estrogen.""

Dog - this is a very good and funny point.

I don't like the Mr. Kenya thing either. I prefer their names or initials.

Pogo - I'll give you guys that - the Supreme Court is a problem.

I'm still reluctant to vote for someone I don't believe in as a candidate. Which as someone posted earlier is my right. That said, I don't believe in McCain as a candidate either.

Perhaps I will not vote for President and leave that to the rest of the country to figure out. Vote my conscience w/o actually helping the other side directly. This may be the best I can offer.

Wendy-

I will be 100% solidly behind Clinton if she is the nominee. The same for Obama whom I support presently.

I know of many here who were most concerned about Clinton as the nominee because 1. they found her unelectable and 2. her name at the top would affect those down ballot.

I do not know many who see major differences between the two - save the initial authorization for Iraq. Everyone knows that whichever health insurance proposal goes Congress will not be 100% of Obama's or Clinton's.

My state went for Bush over Gore by a very small margin in 2000. If every Gore voter in my county had gotten an additional one to the polls that year, we would never have had Bush, or Iraq, or record deficits. Or Allito, or.....way too long of a list to name.

So "getting a crack at it' - this is the year we have had to wait eight years for. I remember good friends or mine saying to me there was no difference between Bush and Gore- both "corporate politicians". Does that seem naive or what now?

I realize that many are agonizing now. And especially for those on the list who have really worked for their chosen candidates, it is a deeply felt agony. I have had that pit in my stomach like a death in the family when my candidate quit in earlier elections.

But things will look very different a month form now, in mid-July- and in early November. A LOT RIDES ON THIS ELECTION. And though vital, it is a lot more than Supreme Court picks.

There are some here who will vote Dem no matter what, and some who probably will but are too rattled to admit to this presently.

But I would hope that all here would consider the choices made by those in 2000 who decided to "vote their conscience" for Nader or sit it out and wait another 8 years, because how much damage could Bush do?

For any of you that arenb't sick of it, here's a decent overview of the FISA & illegal wiretap bill issue.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/15/bush-says-congress-puttin_n_86811.html

Wouldn't want any red tape to interfere with illegal wiretaps.

LindaInWisconsin...

I agree with several things that have been said in reference to your calling Obama "Mr. Kenya". I agree that humor is in the eye of the beholder, I agree that other people have used name calling (or nicknames) in some of their posts (some seem funny, some don't), but...bottom line for me is that I find tyour particular bit of name-calling so offensive that I now skip your posts.

If you want people to pay attention to what you have to say, then you also need to pay attention to what we have to say. And several of us are asking you very nicely to please stop referring to Obama by your chosen nickname for him.

Craig...just resent the bookplate info with address...I hope you get the email.

Have to run...late start...too much wine last night, but it was a great dinner.

Be careful out there and watch out for the other guy.

From Taylor Marsh:

"Hmmmm. Wonder where those DK "editors" were when I was getting defamed during the Nevada caucuses (see here and here), complete with blaring headlines on DK diaries? I guess it's selective. If you're smearing Clinton or anyone proving points about Obama you're fair game. I'd like to know how many others are experiencing this stuff. Seriously, these comments are monitored, right? Hey, but all the anti Clinton blogs out there have been a boon to the few of us who actually report . Oh, and by the way, still getting Obamabot screeds, even after last night's post: Obama's Unhinged Fans Reveal a Dangerous Zealotry. You'd think they'd realize by now they're actually hurting their own efforts, while giving fodder to wingnuts, as the rest of us cringe."
http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=27022

Obama's PAC has given $700,000 to the Super Delegates. Clinton's PAC has given $200,000.

That should help the Supers fund their next election and even more power.

Dog's Eye

"I disagree re the divide between HRC and BHO supporters; this list is not the general voting public."

Check out some of the news blogs. If you think it is testy in here at times, the battles elsewhere are absolutely brutal.

Pogo

Coulld you post other links about legal matters other than the obviously Far Left Huffington Post. Now really, how do you want more objective moderates on both sides to understand your position when you post rants from the Far Left Side?

Show us one moderate, bipartisan link that defends your earlier position.

I've stopped reading KOS and Huffington long ago for insight into objective reality.

Kathy:

I appreciate your point of view. I'm glad you will be able to support either candidate.

I personally don't see any substance in Obama - I worry that he is not of his own mind and that he will be rolled over by the Republicans or too heavily influenced by others. We are at too critical a point for someone to learn the hard way on the job. I don't believe in him as a candidate today and the more I see of him and hear him speak the less I do.

I'm not going to throw my support or vote behind someone that I don't believe is right or ready for the most powerful job in perhaps the entire world. He is not right or ready at this time for that job. This is like me--a humble web developer-- deciding that I should be CTO of the company I work for tomorrow. It's not realistic and would not be in the best interest of the company I work for.

I supported Kerry last time because he was the democratic nominee not because I thought he was the best candidate. He betrayed John Edwards and all of us who supported him by giving up so easily. He was weak.

You are right though - the general is a long way away but as of now I'm not on board with Obama. I'm not going to give him my vote which I take very seriously (I have NEVER missed an election in the 20+ years I've been old enough to vote) just because he is the democratic nominee.

Dog's Eye

" the voting public are not the same group at all."

No they aren't. The ones who post are almost always the extremes or at least the most interested. That is what makes them "opinion leaders". They hear what the quieter (could even say more balanced) folks around them have to say and then restate it in heated terms.

It is always a bad idea to take any extreme at face value, but they often highlight an issue that is bubbling beneath the surface that someone with a vested interest should probably mark for action before it becomes a problem.

Jamie wrote:

"Check out some of the news blogs. If you think it is testy in here at times, the battles elsewhere are absolutely brutal."

Hear hear Jamie - While I read what TPM and others say I refuse to read the comments.

I feel much safer here. The people here on all sides are much nicer, smarter, funnier. At times some of us can be cranky and bitter (I know I'm guilty of it too) but overall it's a good discussion and I love the cross posting of articles and links - makes all the research work much easier when one is working in a group.

Henry Jenkins might refer to this as more of an Affinity Space - rather than just a bunch of comments on a blog.

Wendy- thanks-

All I would hope that some consider- is that when they protest to stay home, or when they do not throw support behind someone who is not the best, that action has serious ramifications too. In other words, our non-votes make as much and arguably more of a difference as well as our votes. How different our country would be if all eligible actually voted.

I know a divorced mom, 45ish with a grown daughter- HS education, works retail with no health insurance, who has never voted and reuses too. She says she does not want to be responsible for the problem!

I chose to be neutral until very late in this primary process and felt that a number of our candidates were very good. Which state are you in?

"I feel much safer here. The people here on all sides are much nicer, smarter, funnier. At times some of us can be cranky and bitter (I know I'm guilty of it too) but overall it's a good discussion and I love the cross posting of articles and links - makes all the research work much easier when one is working in a group."

Excellent observation, Wendy! I suspect it's why many of us came here and stayed.

Maxtrue, I have mostly posted links here to HuffPo, WaPo & NYT because they present coverage of a broad range of subjects, although I do go to and post links from others. I have no idea what you mean by a moderate, bipartisan link or what position you're referring to. And I don't go looking for a left leaning perspective on the news. If you want a different spin on the news and think there is such a positionto support your own perspective, use your browser and post the links here. For the record, I'm not a big fan of HuffPo, they simply aggregate stuff on topics related to politics, and being basically lazy, that appeals to me. I won't use Drudge as a matter of principle.

Kathy - I'm in California.

Yes...what you are saying about consequences I do take into serious consideration. Trust me I do. I do not throw my vote around frivolously. I think there is power in it. I'm tired of voting for the lesser of the two - I will reserve it for voting FOR someone.

I have to be honest with you. I've only actually felt like I was voting FOR someone on three occasions.

I marked the ballot Clinton in 92

I marked the ballot Clinton in 96

I marked the ballot Gore in 2000

other than that - I voted my party and not my conscience.

Wendy,

Consider this. Obama wins by a small majority. Already much of America is suspect of a. Black support to get him elected and the divide this creates nationally b. suspect foreign policy and c. his rather poor record of reaching out from a moreLiberal view.

Then everything that follows will be blamed on a Democratic Congress and President. Obama will be carrying Far Left aspirations, Black aspirations and his internal conscience to do this country right.

I would feel for the guy, but with Rezko and other black eyes, world pressure including allies that don't agree with him and enemies ready to pounce, what the hell can Obama accomplish? Big deficit and sinking economy. The Press will turn to the next under dog and Obama may likely have the worst time a Democrat has enjoyed since Carter. An attack? Boom, there goes Obama.

This more than possible future will then kill Democrats in 2010 and lose it for them in 2012. I have heard Republicans say this is their safe back up plan should McCain lose.

Most here underestimate the real events going on in the world. They downplay the real 50/50 divide in this country. They don't understand that once the media and voters sour on Obama for not saving us (which he can't possibly do in short order) the economy will go down being largely based on expectations. Chavez could cut oil and bingo. Obama should understand how Reagan brought about change and in no way does an Obama victory correlate to the conditions or rhetoric of Reagan. His nomination is a disaster waiting to happen and I say this with much admiration for Obama's potential. He should never have taken this course now. Gees..his mentor was Lieberman and his ego and wife have encouraged him to do this run now. His campaign has already tarnished his color blind declaration and his pandering to the Left has betrayed his earlier foreign policy judgments. He will come to the White House far more burdened than Hillary.

Yes, I am partial to the Democracts as a social Liberal. I say this with the deepest honesty. What might be good for the long term is for Obama to lose to McCain. McCain will be contained by a Democratic Congress. Should he falter, Democrats will pick up more seats in 2010 and be ready for the White House in 2012. Should McCain prove to be a centrist like Reagan, then the country can live with that more than Obama in the deep hole with supporters using race to deflect the critics while our enemies adnvace. Talk about a Wag the Dog situation. Iran might as well tip the missiles and Hizb'Allah attack Israel.

When the fallout reaches here, I will personally blast everyone of the idealists who laughed at realism and being centered. Obama the Second Coming?

So Wendy, consider what I said. It may be the best course for Democrats. I am not a troll and I have never voted for a Republican. Come November I ma break that promise as Obama has broken promises he has made to the American people, AIPAC and even those who helped him advance as a Senator.

The Republicans will be lethal and Hillary has been vetted and tested. On the issue of sexism alone, I would be ashamed to be a registered Democrat at the moment though I will help Hillary to call voters and try to prevent a huge mistake for the Democratic cause.

It didn't have to be like this, but I guess Barak's ego is larger than Bill's. And what a warm and fuzzy First Lady we will have. I would prefer Bill wearing a dress to someone who went before the press and accused Bill of racist remarks during a Democratic primary. Not even Republicans sunk that low. The card thus played will be Obama's undoing and his policy positions will corner him when acting like JFK is crucial for our national security.

About the Mr. Kenya name....it does smack of racism but the real reason Linda needs to drop it is because --if she wants to discredit him -- that isn't effective. Nobody here gives a damn if he has relatives in Kenya. (I am one of those heretics who thinks that Barack's black face and African name ain't gonna mean squat to a bunch of terrorists. They'll hate him the same as Bush.)

My underlying problem with this whole "outsider" stance he has taken is that he's just as much business-as-usual as the next guy. So Linda, read this 2006 article in Harper's. It's certainly not a hit job, and was written before he announced for POTUS, before any of the "Dream" talk started, before he started accusing Hillary of being a pawn of lobbyists and corporations.

Screw the Kenya connection. Just call him Mr. Insider.

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2006/11/0081275

From the article:

Yet it is also startling to see how quickly Obama’s senatorship has been woven into the web of institutionalized influence-trading that afflicts official Washington. He quickly established a political machine funded and run by a standard Beltway group of lobbyists, P.R. consultants, and hangers-on. For the staff post of policy director he hired Karen Kornbluh, a senior aide to Robert Rubin when the latter, as head of the Treasury Department under Bill Clinton, was a chief advocate for NAFTA and other free-trade policies that decimated the nation’s manufacturing sector (and the organized labor wing of the Democratic Party). Obama’s top contributors are corporate law and lobbying firms (Kirkland & Ellis and Skadden, Arps, where four attorneys are fund-raisers for Obama as well as donors), Wall Street financial houses (Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan Chase), and big Chicago interests (Henry Crown and Company, an investment firm that has stakes in industries ranging from telecommunications to defense). Obama immediately established a “leadership PAC,” a vehicle through which a member of Congress can contribute to other politicians’ campaigns—and one that political reform groups generally view as a slush fund through which congressional leaders can evade campaign-finance rules while raising their own political profiles.

Wendy- I think I remember you saying you were 37?
So at least a majority of the times your voted for president you voted your conscience.

And everyone, we are a long way away from deciding what will happen in Nov. The economy, Iraq, running mates and god know what else will look very different than it does today.

I hate the whole electability argument which was forced down everyone's throat for Kerry as the nominee in 2004.

By the way, Max....don't worry about the stumble, if that's what Obama does if elected. The Democratic party is already finished. I've heard the same sentiment over and over on c-span and npr, people saying that "It doesn't matter what the Democratic base thinks. It's what the independents and crossover Republicans will do if Obama isn't the candidate."

That indies and Republicans are in charge tells me the party is dead....just doesn't know it. .

Kathy - slightly older but yes 3 out of 2 times I was happy to vote for the candidate.

Hear hear on the electability argument.

Just did a long post regarding superdelegates that didn't make it through because somehow I got signed out.

Here is the artilce:

http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1713596,00.html

The gist of what I said was that while this looks bad for Hillary obviously I also think it does a lot of harm to the idea that Obama's campaign somehow transcends race.

I believe the campaigns hubris might start slipping them up. First Wilhelm does that horrible interview on CNN where he basically says the superDs should follow the will of the people unless the will of the people is Hillary in that case they should vote their conscience. Then it's leaked that JJjr is calling up superDs and basically threatening them. The whole buying superDs bothers me too - he's bought 40% of his she 12% of hers (I don't like that either of them are doing it and I think it should be illegal)

We are seeing the dark side of the Obama campaign finally come to light. I'm not saying there is not a dark side to Hillary's campaign - all campaigns have a dark side. The problem for Obama is that he's held himself up as being different...a new kind of politics...above the fray...better. Clearly...he is not. He'll have some 'splainin to do.

Max:

You make valid points and I have said many of the same things on this list that you are saying. You might be saying them much better than I however.

At any rate - I am taking my November vote or lack there of very seriously.

Pogo....
I was not the one who posted to vote Democratic because of the Supreme Court...... even though I will vote Democratic and will sometimes end my posts with "GO DEMOCRATS".... I would never tell anyone how I think they should vote.....

as someone who was a long time elected election official..... I believe in all my heart and soul in the voting process..... I believe in the will of the people... even if it's different from what I myself have voted.... and yes.... seeing Bush re-elected broke my heart.....

I also believe in campaigning....... nothing wrong with trying to convince anyone to your point of view.....

with that said......
GO DEMOCRATS!

Patsi

"That indies and Republicans are in charge tells me the party is dead....just doesn't know it. "

I was just talking to my favorite far right conservative Republican activist (out side of being hideously wrong about everything political, he's a nice guy).

The "Republican wing of the Republican Party" is suffering deep pangs of rejection. They can't vote for Sen. McCain whom they detest. A lot will hinge on the VP spot as to whether they vote, stay home sitting on their hands, or bitterly vote for a Democrat just to prove to the Republicans what can happen when they are ignored.

BTW, he is assuming that if Obama becomes President, the nation is doomed. As much as he loathes the Clintons (those serial killers), he actually thinks that Hillary would be better for the country as a whole (he practically choked while saying that).

It was an entertaining conversation.

Jamie - ROFL about your friend.

Blonde wino....

I was the first one who said he shouldn't be called McBush....
and actually....it was just pointing out with all the calls for not saying "Billary" or "Obamarama" that there was another side too.....

I really don't care if anyone chooses to call a politician or media figure a name....
they are public figures and that goes with the territory.....

GO DEMOCRATS!

Wendy
"You are right though - the general is a long way away but as of now I'm not on board with Obama. I'm not going to give him my vote which I take very seriously (I have NEVER missed an election in the 20+ years I've been old enough to vote) just because he is the democratic nominee."

I hold that same opinion. I understand exactly how you feel.

The repugs I know, are really hoping that Romney will be the VP, they said that would make them feel better about voting for JMc.

Thanks, FryDaddy, for your thoughtful position.

Here's how I feel about it.

Combatants should be treated in accordance with the Laws of Armed Conflict (to which we are signatory).

If some individual thinks that a captive has some key knowledge of the type you describe, and that torture is the only way of gaining access to that information within an operationally relevant period of time, than that individual should be willing to commit the war crime of torture in order to extract that information. That's how I understand the Administration's position.

But, here's the rub. An individual at the operational level, because of compartmentalization, is unlikely to know that the only way of gaining access is through torture. So, if that's the case, an operational-level torturer would be nothing more than a sadistic war criminal.

But, if all available information is fused, and command authorities still believe the only way to gain access is to torture, then the senior command authority should be willing to personally conduct the torture. After all, whether it's really important or not doesn't change the fact that, under LOAC, it is still a war crime. And, we all know that the Nuremberg Defense does not protect war criminals despite having been ordered to commit the criminal act. The torturer has to accept personal responsibility for the criminal behavior.

It's the Administration's position that torture has been conducted on a very, very selective basis--less than five times. So, it shouldn't be a gross imposition for our nation's Commander-in-Chief to personally administer the torture, and if necessary, the coup de grace.

If necessary, the whole sordid business could be done in Crawford. Wouldn't take more than an hour from his vacation.

Craig, you never cease to amaze me. McCain gaming the Democrats, as though the Republicans have their own stuff together? Yeah, I think you're right. Obama is being gamed so he might as well just drop out so that he can stop it. Lord knows he wouldn't want to go through this so he can try to beat the Republican. Really, that was a silly piece, Craig.

What about the SEIU's endorsement of Sen. Obama? If I put on my Craig hat, I'm sure the spin will be that two million union members is a definite NEGATIVE for Obama. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Burrito

The fiscal conservatives could deal with Romney even though they consider him a fraud, but the Evangelicals would think it was the beginning of the end times (He's Mormon in case you haven't heard).

why are you people that can tell whats gonna happen in the general election doing hanging around a two bit political site when you could be at the track or in Vegas enriching your very selves with your ability to see into the future? Either that or you are just guessing to us and to yourselves.

yo soy Horsedooty!

hey craig! i see u back to whining again like a sore loser.... u just can get over ms missy losing to obama. let it go craig it will be healthy for u billiary campaign is over, it aint gonna happen, she is a has been, and u will too unless u jump off the hilliary titanic into the obama safe boat.... lol :)

Alpha:

"What about the SEIU's endorsement of Sen. Obama? If I put on my Craig hat, I'm sure the spin will be that two million union members is a definite NEGATIVE for Obama. Yeah, that's the ticket."

I think we'll all remember that a highly hispanic based Union supporting Obama didn't go over to well in Nevada.

"I support my Union. I support Hillary."

'Member...you 'member.

""You are right though - the general is a long way away but as of now I'm not on board with Obama. I'm not going to give him my vote which I take very seriously (I have NEVER missed an election in the 20+ years I've been old enough to vote) just because he is the democratic nominee." From Unlikely_Burrito.

I agree. But, as I have said many times although I take my vote seriously, I CANNOT bring myself to vote for Clinton. I just don't like her. To hear that horrible, horrible voice yelling for four years would force me to never turn on my television until she is gone. I keep the remote handy at all times so I can mute it now. I will not vote in the general if it is between Clinton and McCain. There is hardly any difference in them. At that point, I just don't care and I am someone who has been involved in politics for years.

Rapper "50 Cent' endorses Hillary Clinton. He figures America will not elect a black candidate and if he wins, he will be assassinated. O'Reilley calls him a pinhead.

Karolenna:

Actually you quoted me.

It's not for any of us to decide whose reasons are valid and whose are silly - they are reasons and we should vote our conscience.

You won't vote for Hillary. I won't vote for Obama. We agree.

I will vote in November - I just won't mark off a name for President - if it's Obama v. McCain.

"O'Reilley calls him a pinhead."

Since when did that azzhole count for anything?

Karolenna,

No rational reason, you just don't like her or her voice. On that account you would have voted against Lincoln whose voice was described as somewhat unpleasant, but whose speeches people traveled miles to hear because of the content.

If you would like to hear the first recordings (starting with Harrison) of Presidential voices go here;

http://www.lib.msu.edu/vincent/presidents/

Jamie,

Repub side -Do you think that being a Mormon will nix Romney as a VP?
Asking for your opinion...

sorry renee, that was dog. sorry dog.

" I just don't like her. To hear that horrible, horrible voice yelling for four years would force me to never turn on my television until she is gone. "

Come on, admit it, you MUST be a member of the top shelf intelligentsia voting for Obama.

Rep. John Lewis, a Clinton supporter, may be ready to change his endorsement.

“Rep. John Lewis, an elder statesman from the civil rights era and one of Hillary Clinton’s most prominent black supporters, is suddenly planning to cast his vote as a superdelegate for Obama in" hopes of preventing a fight at the Democratic convention." “

(From John Lewis) “Something is happening in America, and people are prepared and ready to make that great leap.”

"If Lewis breaks away, take whatever you thought Clinton’s chances of winning the nomination before and divide that number by as much as two — those would be the odds of her winning now."”

http://www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/02/15/obama-s-tipping-point-not-yet.aspx

Considering how much hard feelings may be flying around this blog lately.... I want to make myself clear.....

I do not care if others tell someone else to vote Democratic because of Supreme Court nominees or because if you don't, the sky will fall.....

I just can't go there myself.....
it comes from years of having to register people to vote and then counting those votes at the end of the night.....
I too can feel passionate on some issues..... and I had to count votes where it's was obvious those issues weren't going my way..... it didn't matter.... I stuffed the disappointment down and counted every vote as accurately as I could to the best of my ability....

I think it's given me a different perspective from some on this blog who are advocating for their candidate and issues...... not better..... just different....

GO DEMOCRATS!

ok, Renee, I understand where you're coming from.

I on the other hand, am looking at the likely retirement of John Paul Stevens and Ruth Bader Ginzburg before the end of the next president's term, particularly if that term becomes two. That means that the next president will likely get to appoint two justices to replace two of the most consistently liberal justices on the court. If two conservative justices are appointed to replace them (f'rinstance if McCain gets to do the pickin'), the court will be loaded more to the conservative side than the Warren court was loaded to the liberal side. The sky might not fall should that happen, but I don't like the direction the court would likely go in that instance. I will vote for the democrat and urge every democrat to do the same, if for no reason other than that.

Wendy!, the other side of that position is that if the Nov. election comes down to Obama and McCain, one of them is going to be president, and I sure as hell don't want to leave the choice solely up to people I haven't agreed with up til then and live with whatever they decide. I have no problem voting against McCain.

nannym, me, too. I agree with your take on the federal judiciary other than SCOTUS 100%. I just focus on SCOTUS appointments because of their wide ranging impact on the shape of the law. I don't know a lot about the turnover rate in the federal jusdiciary, but I figure it's pretty consistent from year to year. Of the past 27 years, there has been a republican appointing federal judges for 19 of those years. It stands to reason that the fed judiciary would be right leaning overall, and I think that is a fair assessment. I can say that despite the fact that both state and federal courts apply the substantive law of the juridiction the court is in(usually), if I'm defending a company give me federal court every time. Now I'm in the tort hell of WV, but that should give you an idea of which way the fed judiciary leans, at least here.

dog, I second your motion re: nannym's 2:22 post.

So he was a defense attorney, too?

You've just mentioned 2 of the types of law that I don't practice - tax and corporate law (although I was in house at our local hospital for 5 years). Mrs. P used to be a tax attorney. Although we wouldn't have much to talk about, at times I wish she still was. Silence would beat talking about her family law cases most of the time.

McCain said he wouldn't run for a second term. This is another reason for Independents and Reagan Democrats to consider him. He will push Amnesty, defend America, repair our military and avoid such grandiose plans that will further drive up the deficit. He isn't a lower tax hawk and Roe isn't going to be over-turned. He can't get a really bad judge past Congress and if he wants to make a name for himself he'll play it like Truman.

The baggage and false expectations for Obama will be too much. The Press will turn on him like the Clntons. It will be ugly. Remember, Presidents enjoyed sweeping powers and could keep media at bay when Kennedy survived the Bay of Pigs. We cannot avoid such a mistep, nor will media let him. The signals Obama is already sending has many nations concerned. The happiest people are Chvez, Putin, Assad, Ahmadinejad, Hu, Kimmie, and others of our adversaries. Why? Do you really think that Americans are not aware of this? And show me polls that say European leaders are on the Obama band wagon.

I will not soon forget the media and Obama attacks on the Clintons. Never did I expect that the Democrats would worship at the alter of empty rhetoric. If Obama has such a sterling character why is he on Judicial Watch List for the ten most corrupt Fed representitives in Congress? Why did it take so long for Obama to give up some donations from Rezko? I ask all to read JFK speaking when he was sworn in, or even Eisenhower or Reagan. There is nothing vague here. The power of pointed policy and firm resolve, of confidence and warnings of sacrifice is lacking from Obama's tired stump speeches. It is quite amazing derangment has become such a part of the Democratic psyche.

I am not justifying the Rovian tactics that helped induce such reflexive lunacy, but by most measures Hillary leads on economy, healthcare, foreign policy (as a centrist like Bill), education, vets, and a bipartisan record. So her plight now is about character and not pandering to the Left. And does anybody think that Obama had nothing to do with playing character, trust and race against Hillary? Case closed. We know how Obama has risen. It is not in debates or record. It is false hope and lifted rhetoric/personal attacks and race v Hillarys record and debates. Yes, let's turn the page on an old, untrustworthy somewhat racist woman and elect Obama the Superstar. If it wasn't for media, style and derangment, Hillary would already be the nominee.

Go figure. And someone please tell me what Obama's record on all those unConstitutional yet passed bills is. Or did he again vote present or miss the vote entirely?

I was just wondering-- has anyone done a study to see where the delegate count would be if all of the super delegates in the already contested states were required to vote as their home districts voted. I would be interested to know.

nannym, talk with kathy before you enroll - that's her bag.

Maxtrue, I agree with 4 of the 5 paragraphs you wrote above. The McCain slant, not so much.

Well at least I can't be accused of causing "nastiness" here... I've just read some of the sniping on the board...

From Gregory Meeks of New York:

“When we needed help with economic development in Jamaica, Senator Clinton was there with us...When we needed help to develop a school that will help young minority boys in this area, she was there for us. Any time I have needed support in my district for anything, she has been there. She has proven herself to me someone that can be depended on.”

"young minority boys "

UhOh....that's racial code for young minority boys.....

Wendy, et al, you don't have to defend your opinion here or anywhere else. If someone wants to get all haughty and nasty because if it... well, MoveOn. Pun intended.

xoxoxoxo

Tom is Tired of the Whole Political Game Not to Mention the Democrats

hey craig! i see u back to whining again like a sore loser.... u just can get over ms missy losing to obama. let it go craig it will be healthy for u billiary campaign is over, it aint gonna happen, she is a has been, and u will too unless u jump off the hilliary titanic into the obama safe boat.... lol :)

wow, what an intelligent post. you gotta real talent there, you oughtta go to WaPo and getta job. lol:)

Oh...but wait until Hillary wins OH,TX, and PA , the whole thing goes to SuperDelegates who ARE ALL PARTY HACKS and reward senior politicians...and you think they'll diss a former First Lady and Senator from New York?
All this talk of an Obama steamroll is talk only...20 years ago Mike Dukakis made rousing speeches and had me convinced he would destroy the idiot Regan in the election...words are cheap...speeches are meaningless, while young people command the focus of the MSM, they do not actually vote. Young folks have no patience to stand in line and vote.
It's all nice and pretty, but I am jaded by now, especially after Bush was re-elected.
Today I don't care which Democrat gets nominated. I'll be for the winner in her/his race against the old geezer of the fractured elephant party.
But after 1988 and 2004, I know I cannot predict anything and why try?
Ridiculing Craig Crawford here? THAT, my friend, is just fucking stupid.

EuroTom comes in bringing Xanax pills as gifts for overwrought Trailblazers

You people forced me to do this! No complaints , dammit!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9K4BKkLaCI

Here is a little something for the die hard Obama supporters AND the die hard Hillary supporters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkRuME46WcU

:-D

me trying to lighten things back up.

Ah Wendy, so today it is your turn. Consider yourself part of the many.
and remember

C'est la vie!

ET, thanks, that really takes the edge off. Those over the counter in Belgium?

Dex, youre damn skippy.

heheheh Pogo, no not at all... They are hard core pills...

I have the Sammy Davis Jr. version of that song , Wendy.

Bobby McFerrin is alive and well...

Nah....that was just a rumor.

Corey, I think you have the best humor of anyone on here. And funny thing is, I have no idea whom you support and it doesn't matter. keep those fun videos posted!

Like the LIFE cereal kid dying after eating pop rocks and coca cola...

LOL

EuroTom....
Corey is our secret weapon....
and try not to be so blue.... your enthusiasm has been fun to read....

Wendy..... join the club.... it's growing all the time.....
I don't even read said person's posts anymore..... once I lose respect for someone..... they're dead to me even if they agree with my POV....
I think you've been a great addition to this blog..... your kindness and sense of humor come shining through your posts.....

Corey..... good luck with your job.... it's got to be a little scary for you....

Thanks! All the job stuff is not supposed to effect me , so I'm not worried about that stuff. Yeah , I'm the resident comedian at work as well. I have this weekend off , so I'm happy about that.

Hey I decided to take an online self-esteem test... either I didn't answer correctly or I have a WAY better level of self-love than I thought... If you want you can take the test: http://www.queendom.com/tests/access_page/index.htm?idRegTest=720

Self-Esteem Test
Self-esteem is essential to our ability to function in a healthy way. Without the foundation of a solid sense of self, we are unable to take the risks and make the decisions necessary to lead a fulfilling, productive life. Low self-esteem can corrode our love lives, careers, family bonds, and most importantly, our internal sense of well-being.
Snapshot Report
Sense of Self-Worth
97 out of 100

Your results indicate that your sense of self-worth is very healthy. You rarely, if ever, put yourself down or fall victim to self-depreciating statements. There are certain attitudes and beliefs that have been found to contribute to and "feed" a positive self-image, and you appear to have most of them. Examples would be believing that you deserve to be loved or respected, believing that you’re good enough for someone, and focusing on your good qualities rather than only your perceived faults. While you may not necessarily feel all of these things all of the time, your opinion of yourself is quite positive. This is a healthy attitude to have, as a poor sense of self-worth can hold you back from pursuing your goals, cause you unnecessary stress, and even become self-fulfilling prophecies.

My wife got me a giant thingy full of jelly beans. My one tie to old goofy Ronnie Reagan...a weakness for jelly beans. I love the black ones best. Irresistible. And that GIANT Cadbury chocolate bar? HISTORY! urp.

Dexter: Do you like those Cadbury Mini Eggs that always come out around Easter? Well...they're here and my husband got me some for Valentine's Day. I wuv them.

I love chocolate and sugar... Being diabetic makes me love it more. I think I crave it... grrrrrr

Hello fello political junkies

Bri.. chat tomorrow (Saturday) night sounds great :) You're more 'yourself' in chat... when we're all posting like maniacs on here the nuances sometimes slip by and then ppl get upset.. well hell they get upset in chat too..but wth.. lol

Instead of Xanax...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdxM8BV-Jk0

I LOVE THIS

Well, everyone - the time has come and it's a 3 day weekend to boot. Enjoy the weekend and remember that most esteemed latin legal phrase, Illegitimi non carborundum.

3 day weekend????

McCain is a very weak campaigner, but his biography is simply unimpeachable. The negative ads against Obama will be a breeze and we haven't even gotten into Obama's record. They'll cream him on guns alone. Obama's record will do all the talking.
http://www.taylormarsh.com/

You might not like Taylor Marsh, but may I suggest that you go there just to read the comments. Most of the people there have links to make one an activist in this election year.

This group, IMHO, seems to be more concerned about what is being said here, than doing anything to help the candidate of their choice.

"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide." John Adams

and
Emerson said, "Democracy becomes a government of bullies tempered by editors."

America is at a cross roads and the stakes are high, maybe even our lives.

The Democrats don't seem to even acknowledge that we are at war with a brutal thoat slashing, burn people alive enemy that wants to destroy us. They'd pull our troops away from fighting in foreign countries with the inevitable result of the fight moving to our own homeland.

Like it or not John McCain is the person the GOP has to work with this season. Mike Huckabee and Ron Paul are only delaying the inevitable and demonstrating their lack of party loyalty, and complete lack of statesmanship. If they'd do the right thing and pull out immediately the GOP could gear up early for the political fight of our lives.

Maybe McCain really is the best choice for our times after all.

At least he has proven his mettle during times of war...


http://mittromney.townhall.com

EuroTom...
Monday is President's Day..... the gobment took away Lincoln and Washington's birthdays and combined them into one holiday.....
and I'm a diabetic too..... love butterscotch and caramel..... I don't indulge very often..... but always fun when I do....

Dex.... jelly beans.... I like the yellow ones....

This is funny. I read another pundit who argued that McCain is going after Obama because he would rather face Clinton. Guess it depends on your prospective. Crawford is in the bag for Clinton.

Justamere, no offense, but where did you get your information? From the Republican "talking points" handbook? We know we have enemies around the world. By and large our foreign policy debacles have contributed to the hatred America faces around the globe.

The war on Iraq was not a war on the terrorists. Our "esteemed" President has destabilized the region, avoided going where the terrorists are, and have damaged international relations around the world.

Keep up the good work...

you can eat pasta I think, no? I am about to begin a diet in March, after a comic book event I attend near Den Haag (The Hague). The weight loss is simply to better control the diabetes. I don't want to go to injections if I can avoid it. And riding my bike will be great help for my temper... especially when I read some of the drivel written here by the Repugs.

I know Bri Bri is pissed off, but I'm another Dem who is not certain who he will vote for if Hillary doesn't get the nomination. I am not threatening to "bolt", but as I've said in the last couple days, I feel myself highly disillusioned with the whole nominating process and also am tired of being expected to vote "Democrat" as some duty because there is "no alternative". I won't go back into the things that soured me on Obama... it doesn't matter. I am seriously considering voting 3rd party, sitting the election out, or writing in a candidate's name.

Kevin, I don't think Crawford is "in the bag" for anyone.

I wonder nanny, if you have wheat allergies...

Well Craig,

If you're listening, I've got a good one for you. Obama has a former Carter guy as an advisor. He headed a Rand delegation to Syria with one financial advisor going along as part of the group. I suggest that McCain will have a field day with this story. I'm sure this group didn't stop off and talk to our allies first...LOL

Here's the story:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/02/019799.php

Now, you can be sure there are many Democrats who are suspicious of Obama's foreign policy. We have talked to Assad before. Right now Syria has a lot of explaining to do about Lebanon and why they poured thick concrete over the blast site of a recent Israeli strike on a suspect nuclear facility which Syria denied existed. Yes, they have a great deal to explain (see link above and below).

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_spine/archive/2008/02/12/zbignew-brzezinski-is-in-damascus-to-see-bashar-assad-i-believe-he-s-there-to-meet-with-khaled-mashal.aspx

NK denies it has any other nuclear programs. I suggest that this move will start the ball rolling over Obama's administration even before he is President. Anyone want to return to the Carter days? So what is the Obama camp and advisor to Clinton doing in Damascus given the response to Reid and Pelosi several months ago? What dealings are being suggested? The last time Democrats went to speak to Assad did Pelosi cover her face? And when Assad said he would respond to the gesture by Pelosi, politicians in Lebanon were murdered, NK delivered suspected nuclear material and activity increased along the Iraq border as well as more weapons pouring into Hizb'Allah. Add this to Obama's rejection of sanctions. For all who know about General Odum's Iranian Grand Bargin idea, McCain will ask Obama and HIllary if they support Odum's idea. Rumor has it Hillary will say no and Obama will say yes. The question is whether this will come up now before the primaries are over, or later when McCain grills Obama should he win the nomination.

This story will have legs and I can see McCain licking his chops.

Good evening everyone.

Well I was not surprised to see Fry support torture with the ticking time bomb analogy. I already know where is morals lie from a long time ago.

I'm not naive to think that our government don't do things in our name that me and I'm sure many others would find disgusting and revolting. I suspect that they do do torture, but not on the scale were seeing now.

IIRC George Washington admonished his men for mistreating British and Hessian soldiers and when his men told him that that's how they treat us when were captured Washington said were better than them. We don't do that and that's what sets us apart from them.

I saw that someone brought up how we tried Japanese soldiers for using waterboarding and tried them for using torture.

I also believe IIRC that we tried American Soldiers for using waterboarding during Vietnam and we considered it torture.
Just because you call it something different doesn't change the fact that its torture.

Only those with no moral values or a soul would think or believe its alright to torture others.

And the fact that we train our men to know what waterboarding is does not mean anything. Do we also train them to withstand a drill being used on them? Or how about bamboo shoots under their finger nails? Do we train them to withstand those forms of Torture? I think not.

Its wrong and we should not allow our government to destroy our moral values and standing around the world while we become what we supposedly hate.

God Bless.

Breaking news...

The FBI along with members from DHS arrested an American citizen and charged them with terrorism.

A spokesperson informed the press that they conducted an early morning raid on a suspected terrorists home after receiving information from a valuable and reliable source.

They would not say who the source was or what kind of information they had. All they would tell us is that to reveal their source could endanger the sources life since the information they had gotten would point back to the source.

They also informed us that our National Security could also be endangered if they released any other information. All they would give us is the name of the person they had arrested.

The American citizens name according to the spokesperson was maxtrue and they said they would be transporting him to Guantanamo for further interrogation before charging him and setting up a trail date before a Military Tribunal.

When ask if maxtrue would be represented by an attorney they said no. They stated that the President under the MCA or 2006 had determined after reviewing the evidence that maxtrue was a Enemy Combatant and therefore had no right to an attorney or a court hearing and would be subject to the Military Tribunal that was set up to handle Enemy Combatants.

It is suspected that much of the information was gathered by eaves dropping of phone calls and emails amongst other methods they use. We could find no record to support that a FISA warrant was requested or approved and will be filing a Freedom of Information Act to see if law was followed or ignored.

As we find out more on the breaking story we will let the American People know.

God Bless.

Well Anon,

If you want to talk about torture, look at the Assad regime. What is Obama's senior FP advisor saying from Damascus that we have much in common? It is easy to talk about bad America and over-look Iran and Syria, just to mention a few. Gitmo for all its problems is hardly a Gulag from the Stalin days.

I suggest you explore the real world of torture and human rights violations and ask yourself who really defends "the people".

Again you focus so much on our bad. The top starter by Craig was talking about McCain. I am sure McCain isn't going to chum it up with the world's worst torturers, a fact lost on the Obama people. Hell, why not visit Iran or Syria and start blogging there. I doubt you'll be returning any time soon.

No offense meant. Just stating an obvious fact.

Let us assume that McCain is the best choice for the president.
We aren't electing an individual, we are electing a team.
Team Republican, if McCain wins. All that will happen is more of the same.
Unless we change the team and get those corrupt , incompetent bastards out, all we are doing is shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.
There is no setting out, waiting for the perfect lover.
This time your actions make a choice.
Setting out says you are willing for the corrupt bastards to stay in power. You are voting for no change.
Let the ship sink
As it does here is some music for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtE0Y6CTQMQ

Let the band play on

Jack

Anon, please tell me when this has happened to an American citizen. Do you imagine black vans showing up at your home in the middle of the night and taking you away? I understand your user name has paranoid in it, but I thought you were kidding. Why would my government talk me away to Gitmo? Most of the people there were captured on the field of battle or had connections with terrorists. You are implying our military knowingly would imprison American citizens with no evidence for what reason? If you were right, don't you think they would start with drug dealers, criminals, suspected rapists and at least clean up the streets?

Again, what American citizen has been sent to Gitmo or into the black from their ordinary lives under anything close to the fiction you describe?

maxtrue...

I'm glad to see your ready for a Nuclear War between China, Russia and us when we start a war with Iran. McCain will not bring our troops home and they will continue to die for control of Middle Eastern Oil.

After all thats what this is all about. Iraq was ready to sell there oil on a Bourse for Euro's and Yen. That's why we invaded them.

And don't forget that we gave Saddam his Chemical and Biological Weapons while Reagan was President and Saddam was our Dictator.

Iran is set to sell its Oil on a Bourse for Euro's and Yen and I have no doubt that GWB will start a war with Iran or through proxy by having Israel attack them. At that point we will step i to aid our Israel.

So don't be surprised when we enter World War III.

I have nothing else to say since you believe that I'm wearing a tin foil hat. We all will know very soon whether I'm right or wrong.

God Bless.

Yes, Jack, all those Republicans are corrupt bastards as you politely call them. Reagan, Lincoln, Eisenhower, Hagel, Luger, etc...etc.. all are the worst kind of scum. Even McCain. It is exactly that kind of thinking driving much of the Obama activism, though Teddy Kennedy would never say that.

Yes, let us clear the deck and put in anyone who is not that kind of scum. Gees,,,how many here just prove my point every day.

And because Hillary is a Republican lite, she must be half a bastard. LOL is it Jack because you drink JD?

How about Jose Padilla.

Remember him? Tried to set his shoe on fire and blow up a plane?

He was an American Citizen. He is also a supposed Terrorist.

So define terrorism and terrorist.

Is it any different then a robber going into a 7 eleven and robbing it? The clerk is afraid that he will be pistol whipped and maybe even killed whether he hands over the money or not. He is afraid for his life.

Isn't terror inciting fear in others? Isn't a robber terrorizing the clerk? What's the difference between a robber threating you or your government or others telling you to be afraid of someone who wants to hurt you?

There is no difference. So do we now make any criminal act that involves a threat of violence a terrorist act?

Under the MCA or 2006 the President can label anyone who even speaks out against the government an Enemy Combatant including American Citizens.

And they will have no rights to an Attorney or a Court Hearing to contest those charges.

Good luck if he decides to label you or any American Citizen an Enemy Combatant. He has the legal power to do it and it is a power no President should have whether they are a Democrat or Republican.

God Bless.

anon.........................................oy.

And least we forget the Canadian Citizen who was rendered to a foreign country and tortured. He tried suing and the case was dismissed due to National Security.

The Canadian Government told the American Government that his name was given incorrectly and he was innocent of any connections to terrorists.

So much good it did him. And there are many other documented cases of innocent men being rendered to foreign countries to be tortured. I often wonder how many of them died.

It seems that you don't care if innocent men are being killed by our government through there policies.

And if thats how you feel then I feel sorry for you. Because we are no better as a country then those who commit these acts on a daily basis against there citizens.

God Bless.

Obama may reneg on pledge to use public financing

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/stories/2008/02/15/McCain_0215.html

but richard reid was the shoe bomber, not padilla......

Well got to go and catch up on my reading. Everyone have a good time and be kind to each other even though you have different POV's.

God Bless.

Anon

a cartoon for you
http://weblogs.newsday.com/news/opinion/walthandelsman/blog/2006/05/animation_nsa_wiretapping.html

Form those of you not familiar with Handelsman he is a great animated cartoonist does work for Newsday

Jack

Kevin

"Crawford is in the bag for Clinton"

Craig is not "in the bag" for anyone. He doesn't vote. His whole standpoint is to analyze political conditions as they exist, not as others might wish them to be. At one time or another he has frustrated all of us in here.

The only reason anyone feels he is pro Clinton now is that he is not fawning all over one of the other candidates unlike some of our so-called news people.

You've been ranting that for years. Saddam was quite happy to sell us oil and Israel took out his nuclear reactor while Reagan was in power. Who had all those contracts with Saddam and was pushing to lift sanctions? Russia. The same party giving nuclear technology and weapons to Iran arranged by Al Gore under an agreement with Russia during the Clinton years.

It was Kerry and Obama who declared that Iran will not be permitted to get a bomb. Yes? Now Obama panders Left. Yes, defend Assad and cry over the dead Saddam. Let us remember the Democrats who blasted Bush 1 for not knocking off Saddam and then later crying that sanctions were killing Iraqi babies when it turned out the UN was over-seeing the biggest bribe racket in history while Saddam made billions.

Iran doesn't control OPEC. Your fantasy about controling Iraqi oil is old and unsupported. You could care less if Iran gets the bomb, Saddam was still killing hundreds of thousands, women are abused or children hung in the Middle East. It is all about evil America according to Noan Chomsky. Did Bush take down the WTC. Is our government run by Mossad?

I just want to point out to other people here, that Anon represents many people backing Obama. Of course, Obama distances himself from these people but uses their internet and caucus power while quoting JFK who would find such paranoia certifiable.

Hillary is hated by most moonbats because she is honest and tells them to bug off as her husband did. You can be sure Anon, if people think Obama actually agreed with your views he will get trounced in the general election should he win the nomination. All you do is play the same Howard Zinni message over and over as real adversaries advance, people all over the world are abused by their own repressive regimes as the Left points to America as the great evil. Sad all that American blood was shed defending concepts I am not sure you understand. Your spin on the world is not the actual spin around the sun, nor your paranoid dellusions even found in anything Obama or Hillary have said. Perhaps Ron Paul or Kucinich might be your candidate, though I doubt they would go as far as you.

Anyway, have fun with those thoughts.

sturgeone...

Yes you are correct. I had the names confused and stand corrected.

In fact IIRC he was so brainwashed that he thought the government was his friend by the time he went to trial.

God Bless.

Anon you can only point to a Canadian citizen who was unjusticely detained (and should sue) and a terrorist bomber. Time Warner makes more mistakes. Is that the best you can do to support your dellusions? Yes, catch up with your reading (man, I would love to see your reading list).

As I said, show me the proof for your fears and accusations. It is rather simple. Evidence, proof instead of wild fear and creative imagination.

I guess I gotta side with Anon on this one.....

maxtrue......what's your point?

Now don't go all crazy praising Corey, I know his not so secret vice ... If he ever gets difficult, just start playing Michael Buble ... instant mush. :-)

For the Obama mamas and the Hillarites :-)
John Prine and Iris Dement , "When two worlds collide"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98pkJ8ugc9E

Jack

What is yor point.? I thought I was rather clear. I started with an article about Obama's foreign policy in realtion to Craig's mention of McCain's strategy. The links I provided point to where McCain will rightly go and lend some meat to the Hillary camp. I suspect Clinton's advisor went with Rand to keep an eye on Zbig.

Then Anon entered with the usual blather and I countered drawing attention that many Hillary-haters and some Obama supporters actually agree with Anon's sentiments no matter how unsupported. One Canadian citizen and a terrorist bomber is proof of Anon;'s paranoid dellusions? I think not.

So again, what is your point?

For anyone really interested here are two stories that confirm that the United States Tortures people.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1356870

And the second story.

http://www.newwest.net/index.php/main/article/9930/

Aren't you all proud to belong to a country that tortures people?

I'm not.

God Bless.

so you went from obama article to a defense of bush policy........

There Sturgie. Let's reset the clock and start with what I first posted. Any takers? Does this relate to McCain's focus on foreign policy or should I say Carter's wonderful Liberal foreign policy? Just click on the links.

Well Craig,

If you're listening, I've got a good one for you. Obama has a former Carter guy as an advisor. He headed a Rand delegation to Syria with one financial advisor going along as part of the group. I suggest that McCain will have a field day with this story. I'm sure this group didn't stop off and talk to our allies first...LOL

Here's the story:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/02/019799.php

Now, you can be sure there are many Democrats who are suspicious of Obama's foreign policy. We have talked to Assad before. Right now Syria has a lot of explaining to do about Lebanon and why they poured thick concrete over the blast site of a recent Israeli strike on a suspect nuclear facility which Syria denied existed. Yes, they have a great deal to explain (see link above and below).

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_spine/archive/2008/02/12/zbignew-brzezinski-is-in-damascus-to-see-bashar-assad-i-believe-he-s-there-to-meet-with-khaled-mashal.aspx

NK denies it has any other nuclear programs. I suggest that this move will start the ball rolling over Obama's administration even before he is President. Anyone want to return to the Carter days? So what is the Obama camp and advisor to Clinton doing in Damascus given the response to Reid and Pelosi several months ago? What dealings are being suggested? The last time Democrats went to speak to Assad did Pelosi cover her face? And when Assad said he would respond to the gesture by Pelosi, politicians in Lebanon were murdered, NK delivered suspected nuclear material and activity increased along the Iraq border as well as more weapons pouring into Hizb'Allah. Add this to Obama's rejection of sanctions. For all who know about General Odum's Iranian Grand Bargin idea, McCain will ask Obama and HIllary if they support Odum's idea. Rumor has it Hillary will say no and Obama will say yes. The question is whether this will come up now before the primaries are over, or later when McCain grills Obama should he win the nomination.

This story will have legs and I can see McCain licking his chops.

"Obama may reneg on pledge to use public financing"

Jamie-

I think he noted Yes on a questionaire that he would pursue that option with the Repugs IF he became the nominee. Let's cross that river when we come to it. Besides, I don't see HRC going out of her way to agree to any financing limitations. We're still in the primary season., aren't we?

"Craig is not "in the bag" for anyone."
If it walks like ducks, and quacks like a duck, .....something like that..

While the FBI was able to get a conviction in this case involving American Muslims, there is still a great deal of suspicion re entrapment and illegality on the part of the government. Despite claims of finding a "nest of potential terrorists" there have been no addition arrests beyond this father and son (the father's English is limited and the son only has a 6th grade education)

http://www.sfgate.com/flat/archive/2007/09/10/chronicle/archive/2007/09/10/BA7IS2RNQ.html

Nice to see the room has obeyed the instructions..."Don't shit on the floors while I'm gone."

For those of you wondering what the early word is here in Texas, this article is a good read

http://www.fwweekly.com/content.asp?section=News&type=Feature

Here's another about a German Citizen who was rendered and tortured.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/dec2005/rice-d07.shtml

Hitler was an evil man and he also spoke to God according to his writings. So also does GWB who once said that God wanted him to be President.

GWB is also evil and like Hitler totally insane.

God Bless.

the german guy had a huge write up in the New Yorker magazine.....cant remember his name though......

What friggin defense of Bush policy? Anon was ranting about an imagined Bush policy whereby I have been sent to Gitmo. UNSUPPORTED. We can talk about Scalia again if you want or pick it up here:

http://stubbornfacts.us/politics/careful_with_that_inference_eugene

I suggest Dog Eye pay a visit too. If you have a particular claim, then just post a comment, but speculation and inuendo is cheap.

While US policy is worthy of debate (and then let's talk about all the issues), it is foolish to lose sight of the big picture. American is not the torture capital of the world and the focus on Bush evilness is excessive and misses the larger issue of terrorism and what is actually going on in the world. That is what concerns the general public far more than the human failings of our imperfect system which always needs reform. Carter did nothing as his Mujadeen tortured captured Soviet soldiers. I could give you quite a list of big bipartisan failures. If you want to talk about the Consitutionality of what is going on, then visit a blog that has meat. I don't think Craig thinks this would be the place.

Hell Sturg, Iran executes gays and children, Assad is a torturer delux. Where do you think that Canadain citizen was sent? And now Obama's advisor says the US and Syria have much in common. Think about that brilliant concept.

should be easy to find.....it was a very sordid affair.......

Rezdog

You are just used to the foam at the mouth style of commentator. Craig just quietly says whatever he feels is true and that can be a negative or positive on every politician out there.

You are just used to seeing the bare knuckles slamming unfairly into whichever candidate the slugger opposes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5axlwCBXC8&feature=related

Jack....
I love Iris Dement and John Prine.....
the above is my particular favorite..... my hubby plays it for me whenever he's feeling romantic.....

and with this..... I'm going to enjoy my long weekend...... hope everyone else does the same..... :0)

" I am sure McCain isn't going to chum it up with the world's worst torturers, a fact lost on the Obama people."

Max -- This issue is overblown. Obama hasn't said he planned on chumming up with anyone. He was talking about negotiating. And that's something that has to happen. Nothing can be accomplished without some communication. Hillary Clinton would do the same.

sturgeone...

My comment to maxtrue about being labeled an enemy combatant was about a comment he made this morning regarding FISA and the spying on American Citizens in violation
of the law by not getting the neccessary court order needed to listen in on Americans phone calls or even to read there emails.

He said there were different rules I believe that covered them and did not think the telecoms shouldn't have immunity for there illegal violation of the Fourth Amendment.

My comment was to show how an illegal wire tap could be used against an American Citizen that the government felt might be a threat to their Regime.

And yes I'm sure many of us have been spied on way before 9\11 ever occurred. Though I have no proof of it the lawsuits pending against the telecoms would show GWB and those in his administration guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors

Also I voted for Bill Clinton twice and had already decided to voter for HIllary before I heard Barack and felt the inspiration he offered to many of us to bring our country back into what it once was before GWB started destroying our Constitution.

God Bless.

Well, first off, it wasnt just one Canadian citizen... it was 3 that we know of..

The point about Bush Admin's torture policy isnt that it shouldnt be debated here... the point of it is ... it gives other nations carte blanche to do what they like when they have American citizens in their custody...

and another point... the "coalition of the willing" was about Afghanistan.. and that sure ended up just great didnt it? troops home from the battle all safe and sound! The Nato troops are being told they're helping to build something positive when in fact they clear and area, train Afghans to do things... leave the area and then the Taliban move back in... it's not going to end..

sturgeone...

His name is in the last link I posted.

God Bless.

If you're thinking of voting for McCain..please think again.. he'd have to have most of those madmen around him.. nothing would change.. it's not just president you're voting for..it's an administration.. and Repubs do not deserve another kick at the can..

Bear....VERY interesting article. So Obama has had a serious team "on the ground" in Texas for over a YEAR. This puts a whole new look on when he really started running. To put a team together in TEXAS? Little more than a year after being elected to the Senate? Someone has been pulling these strings....

anon.....yep......that's the one......

From anon-paranoid: "Also I voted for Bill Clinton twice and had already decided to vote for HIllary before I heard Barack and felt the inspiration he offered to many of us to bring our country back into what it once was before GWB started destroying our Constitution."

DITTO, DITTO, DITTO

I completely, completely agree. We need real change and not the same old rhetoric.

Patsi

The fact that Obama started running for the Presidency almost from the second he hit the Senate has been known for quite a while. Getting to the bottom as to who is pulling the strings is going to be a great deal more difficult.

"The point about Bush Admin's torture policy isnt that it shouldnt be debated here... the point of it is ... it gives other nations carte blanche to do what they like when they have American citizens in their custody... "

I hardly agree with that. What keeps our adversaries from torturing us (and many have or even behead us) is that we will retaliate. We are talking about suspected terrorists and if you all want to take a few examples after 9/11 confirmed to be mistakes and brand us the torture country elevating us to the likes of real torture countries, that is your irrational choice. Anon is free to compare Bush to Hilter and I won't waste anymore time debating. Hillary and Obama would never say what many here do. It is absurd. The Liberal media has so over blown the chracterization many people now actually believe it. Read the Geneva Convention and tell me a legal combatant is.

As far as Afghanistan, the fault has been NATO and other countries. When did America become the country to shed blood? Obama wants to take troops from Iraq and send them to Afghanistan. Why? Where is all that help other nations promised? Afghanistan suffers because allies won't pick up their fair share of responsibility. Period. Hell, Obama even suggested invading Pakistan. Again you blame America and exaggerate Bush policy to the point of meaninglessness. Maybe we should do what Israel does and blow up wanted terrorists hiding out plotting new attacks in countries while Obama's advisor welcomes new relationships, which is just what happened in Syria. Maybe Obama should visit Iran as they hang more children and spin more uranium.

Most NATO countries have refused to let their troops even near the line of fire in Afghanistan while France and the Danes argue this is wrong. Where is Obama? He is the head of the Senate Foreign Relations Sub Committee on Eastern Europe and NATO. No, his advisor is chumming it up with Assad, trying to show talking is good. What good. You want to bet this produces zero and Lebanon gets worse. Iran has laughed at the suggestion Oabam can get them to change any policy. Stick to the facts please. McCain will and we know Obama is not great when contronted with facts while debating.

Should there be any creationists amongst us

Did Ally Oop ride them?

http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSN1339128720080214

Lets see, praise torture , then praise HRC

LOL
I don't think she needs that kind of support.

Jack

Max.. for the love of God.. its NOT the fear of retaliation.. that doesnt mean a rat's ass to people who would torture ..

You have your 'facts' wrong about Nato troops in Afghanistan.. we're losing troops every day.. face it.. the admin took their eye off the ball for a trumped up 'gotcha' in iraq..

Jack & Renee
Prine & DeMent are peas and carrots.

Renee, why am I not surprised "In Spite of Ourselves" is what Rick plays for you?

Here's Iris DeMent's ode to Craigslisters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FikZwgj89HI&feature=related

Its true you know. Talking to our enemies is stupid.

I guess Reagan should have just Nuked Russia instead of talking to them.

Oh that's right, Russia had Nuclear Bombs. Iraq and Iran don't.

Pakistan and India have Nuclear bombs so we talk to them even though they also torture their citizens. As does Saudi Arabia so we sell them advanced military weapons, but there our friends and we don't care that they torture their citizens either.

They also have Oil which we buy.

God Bless.

Renee

LOL
I was just playing that one for my wife over the phone. She is in a hotel in Newark traveling on busness. She was feeling a little lonely.

We got together about 5 years ago one of the ways I beat out the competition was I knew the words to her John Prine cds.

Jack

Jamie-

I inform myself from a whole variety of sources. I like Craig and his punditry or I never would have gravitated to Trailmix. I don't think I'm a lone wolf howling about his perceived political bias. I have no problem with it, particularly for the reasons you state- about his style. I just think there should be more truth in advertising with some of these folks. I love Carville and Begala, et al. I especially appreciate them being up front about their leaning, even when it put their jobs in jeopardy.

Patsi,-

Thanks for thearticle, it was a good read. I wish it could have been included here as a part of some of the discussion about BO's experience. I guess it's not your place to go out of your way to support an opponent. I would post a little more from the article but then i might be accused of cherry picking. :)

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2006/11/0081275

Praise torture? Who has praised torture? I see many Americans love 24 on TV. I certainlt don't condone torture except specific techniques used to prevent the death of people at the hands on non legal enemy terrorists. What an absurd claim. you make Jack. So cling to the issue of torture and Iraq. Cry about the litany of assaults on the Contitution which remains intact despite the chicken little cries.

Or have some Jack, Jack.

I guess this thread shows exactly the line of the general election will take should Obama win the nomination. Our bipartisan NSS for six decades or a neoLiberal spin that revolves around exaggeration and a myopic focus on talking points.

Yes, I am converted. Bush is evil and Hitler. We torture and dominate the world. We should be punished. We bad. Hillary bad. Obama good.

Praise the Lord that I might see...

Yes we can

Turn the page

Yes we can

turn the page

Here's Obama's new campaign song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zydAs5bRW1U

Rez -- as I said about the Harper's piece....it was certainly not a hit job. Many positives. But for me, the track back to influence and "old style" politics was most important.

Terrorists don't give a damn about retaliation. There willing to blow themselves up for what we believe in. So should we just nuke those countries.

I guess we could though we would be biting our nose off to spite our face.

Not only wouldn't we be able to secure any oil, but the land and everything around would be uninhabitable for a very, very long time.

And also don't forget the radiation which would spread all over from the wind carrying it in the atmosphere.

Right now we are killing our troops and the troops of our allies through the use of depleted uranium which has a very long term life once in the atmosphere. Many of our troops are now starting to have medical problems that we don't know the cause of. There are many Iraqi women having deformed babies as well as Americans coming home who are pregnant.

DP is also listed as a WMD and Britain and us have used it throughout Iraq.

That's it for me tonight. No more tirades, go back to arguing over Barack and Hillary.

God Bless.

Wasteland of the Free by Iris DeMent... I used to play this song a lot on my weekly radio program "Afternoon Delight"... There was no way in hell the mainstream radio would play this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuEWBlChry4

dog,

In reference to your February 15, 2008 11:17 AM post.

Sorry I didn't respond sooner but this is a Friday, and the eagle flies and the minions must be feed.

I got that description of how waterboarding is administered off the below listed blog. I know a little bit of what SEALS go through in their advance training to believe this description is very accurate. The fact that certain factions of our elite military groups go through this type of training is well documented in Congressional testimony, and in the MSM. The reason our military incorporates waterboarding as part of their training is so they'll have a better understanding of the cause and affect one goes through. The thought of not cooperating after the first session is more than a human can mentally bare so they tend to cooperate. No one is suggesting this form of interrogation is anything but unpleasant, it is meant to be, but it does save American lives. If a high value target is CAPTURED it does no one any good if he dies taking his secrets with him. Try to think of it this way. What lengths would you as a parent go to to protect your children from someone wishing to inflict harm upon them? This nothing different except in this case of waterboarding, the military/government is wanting to extract information from those wishing her citizens harm so they can better protect them. To me it makes perfect sense and something I can live with, to others...well they'll have to live with their decision not to use waterboarding, and hope we never have another massive scale attack on Americans that might have been prevented if only we had used aggressive interrogation techniques like waterboarding.

http://blogontherun.wordpress.com/2007/11/01/waterboarding-is-torture/

Terrorists don't give a damn about retaliation. There willing to blow themselves up for what we believe in. So should we just nuke those countries.

Should have read second sentence.

There willing to blow themselves up for what they believe in.

Sorry.

God Bless.

Bonney Riatt
Doing one of my favorite John Prine songs

Angel from Montgomery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5HpW1Sula8

Jack

Rezdog

There is a small chance that Craig is being just a shade kinder to Clinton purely from the standpoint of self preservation. he doesn't vote, but his mother probably reads his columns. :-)

John Prine doing one of my favorite John Prine songs

Spanish Pipedream

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51Ni6_mxAXI

One last time.

NATO does not have sufficient troops in Iraq. Of those troops, Italy, Spain and others do not permit their soldiers to operate near the free fire zone or conduct offensive operations. Want to make a bet? Gates and others have been asking NATO to send more troops for years. Even France and the Danes are bitchin. about the lack of NATO help. Where do you get your silly assumptions, from Huff or Kos? Obama should know this given his special chairmanship and boy will McCain grill him. That is just one McCain card to play.

Since when did we become responsible for keeping the Taliban out of Afghanistan? Why are we responsible for the terror that has existed in Pakistan and Afghanistan for decades? Why didn't the world stop the Taliban or Bin Laden who was first armed by Carter? Obama's theory is that we should provide the vast number of troops to Afghanistan. Are you all following this so I don't have to repeat myself? Who has given more money and has spilled more blood? Who the hell drove out AQ and the taliban in the first place? I think it was the DoD on orders from Bush with the huge consent of American save the pocket of moonbats. And we used a strategy of not alienating the locals by using them so we didn't have to deploy 200,000 troops. Remember Franks? The Northern Alliance helped us so Democrats weren't screaming that so many troops were shipped off to Afghanistan while Saddam refused to let in inspectors. The UN praised the deployment of a hundred thousand US troops to off-shore Iraq because Saddam was not going to blink. Now Obama says we lost Afghanistan because we didn't keep more troops there indefinately which is exactly his rejection of policy in Iraq -that we have no job protecting Iraq from AQ getting in. AQ is in Pakistan, not in Afghanistan.

So before you spin Afghanistan, get it right. Carter started Bin Laden. We pushed him out. Now Taliban and AQ regrouped in Pakistan and we are at fault in not sending more troops indefinately to keep T and AQ out? Brilliant. The world should help in Afghanistan. And Obama's idea to send in troops to Pakistan defies the military history of trying to make it through the Kyber Pass. Mass bombing will kill many innocents and turn a nuclear Pakistan against us. P.S. Scotland Yard has confirmed Bhutto was killed by the blast and not shot. Shariff says Musharraf's helping America has destroyed Pakistan. Bhutto's husband is a criminal. So consider that when listening to the Left's take on what we should do in Pakistan.

I hoped that helped, but I rather doubt it. I can see what Hillary has to go through.

The Obama people are begging voters for help in turning the super-delegates in their direction, even though they claim they basically have won the race for delegates.

Sorry, I meant NATO doesn't have sufficient troops in Afghanistan (but Iraq would be a good idea)

Rezdog

"He has fought for restrictions on lobbying, even as most of his fellow Democrats postured on the issue while quietly seeking to gut real reform initiatives"

Afraid this sentence is a clue that the article is a puff piece. Apparently the restriction he wanted was "standing up" vs "sitting down". You can't have a steak at the local restaurant, but sharing a hot dog from one of those DC corner stands while you stroll down the mall is okay.

This is probably my favorite iris DeMent song.
My father loved to listen to the Grand Ole Opery on the radio every saturday night.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbKiMnmItkY

Jack

and one last time..

After 9/11, the United States had all the support it needed to go into Afghanistan... it was the Admin's asinine idea of going into Iraq that NATO backed away from... The Admin squandered all the support they had..

Max.. the MILITARY in Pakistan controls the economy... always has.. controls the banks, "corporations", rights... oh sure America hates supporting dictators..unless they're benevolent dictators.. benevolent TO the United States..

eat yer freedom fries, max

Jamie,

Did you see my reply to your income question?

Good luck explaining that one Frydaddy. I say this as an Independent social Liberal to a Republican. You just won't get through and you will called many names.

If you beat the crap out of a kidnapper to find where he had buried your wife before the air ran out, no jury in America would convict you. Yes, judicial review and tight context, but this focus here is just another misdirect to avoid reality. I know why SEALS are trained against waterboarding. I know what the Geneva Convention says about terrorists. Spies can be shot, so waterboarding is worse? It is a tilted view. On the other hand Zibig is sporting a "new realism" in Syria.

What a strange strange place this is.

Keep on truckin yall.........

Do you ever wonder how it is possible that human-kind has survived this long? I used to believe in the Star Trek vision of the future, but I am getting more pessimistic and probably a lot more angry as I get older.

I have often said "Americans are stupid" --- we chose Reagan twice! I could understand Bush Sr. over Dukakis because Dukakis was about as inspiring as an anal fissure. Bill Clinton was a true inspiration and remained one. Gore "had" the election and could have won if he carried his home state of Tennessee. The best thing he could have done would have been to toss out the "professional political advisers" who make TONS of money (read millions here) offering bum advice.

Kerry was another inspiring candidate -- NOT! He offered no charisma, no charm, just "I'm not Bush". His whole campaign was a "botched joke". Not only that but he was FUG.

Hillary Clinton offers a whole new experience of women finally breaking that glass ceiling and actually running the most powerful (currently) country in the world. This should be a no-brainer, but race seems to trump gender. White guilt? Good looking man? Lack of experience preferred... now that's the way to hire someone. Teddy Kennedy comparing Obama to Kennedy? The MSM on a feeding frenzy about what a "change" he will be.

I think Obama is probably a great man, but like my idol said "men have had this all along and they haven't done such a hot job". I have never seen such manufactured press as there has been in favor of Obama. He's a nice guy I am sure, and his 2004 keynote address was VERY inspiring. He sure threw the "new politics" routine out the window when he attacked Hillary (FIRST I MIGHT ADD) because her poll numbers were still high and his were quite low. It is too bad that people CONVENIENTLY forget where the attacks originated.

Politics are shit. Plain and simple.

Ah hell, beat the crap out of the terrorists. Let the punishment fit the crime....

Oh and on the topic of Nato, the countries making up Nato are getting sick and tired of the USA telling them what THEY must do. If BushCo isn't careful, Nato might fall apart.

Getting lost in youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbKiMnmItkY

Jack

Support in "words". We kicked out the Taliban and drove them into the hills between Pakistan and Afghanistan. It was never our mission to protect Afghanistan's border. Never. NATO then added more trrops and was to take over the bulk of operations. You are completely wrong. The numbers from NATO never grew to the size promised and many nations refused to have their troops near combat.

We pulled out some troops as NATO added more, but the mission was not to conduct operations into Pkaistan nor have the US patrol the entire border. We then spent time rebuilding Afghanistan army with NATO help. You are simply buying the wrong story based on an overwhelming presence of US troops as opposed to those promised from NATO. Understand?

After 9/11, NATO promised a lot. Gates is asking NATO to honor its word which has not. And mant enemies regrouped in Pakistan and now launch offenses. What you are calling for is exactly what Obama refuses to do in Iraq. Provide more US security. Well, NATO isn't helping in Iraq and are not meeting their word in Afghanistan. If you think otherwise you are just buying into the partisan PR. Imagine what Kos and HUff would say if Obama ever launched enough troops to defeat the Taliban in Western Pakistan and drove North to defeat AQ. How many troops? How long? What cost? And what would Pakistanis think?

Your logic is flawed by conditioning. Think outside your box. Your turn Frydaddy. I have done enough. God help out country.

FD

I just went back and read it. I did have one question

"Not to keep paying taxes on money that has been already taxed at 30%. "

You have to make a whale of an income before you hit that 30% rate particularly now that adjustments have been made to the minimum tax, and everything under that 30% level is taxed at lower rates.

My whole point is that 95% of the wealth of the country is held by an infinitesimal percentage of the population but only pay 70% of the taxes. The other 25% is shoved down on the middle class, the very people who can least support it.

It would be nice if they at least got something for their money such as health care, decent schools, infrastructure that doesn't kill them, and clean and safe neighborhoods.

Maxtrue,
"I know what the Geneva Convention says about terrorists."

Could you enlighten the rest of us? Which convention? Which article?

Oh Max I have been here for 2 years plus and have been called all sorts of names. But after the first couple of months it is like water of a duck back. Just got to learn how to roll with the punches, duck and weave, slip the jab and you'll be fine.

Is Hillary Due for a Comeback?
by Michael Barone

"There has been some scoffing at Clinton pollster Mark Penn's memo issued yesterday arguing that Hillary Clinton can still win more delegates than Barack Obama.

And there's independent polling data that seem to support his argument."

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/barone/2008/2/15/is-hillary-due-for-a-comeback.html

Here is something going on in Tennessee RIGHT NOW:

Last week, after a debate over legislation that would amend the state constitution to say that it does not guarantee the right to abortion or require funding for abortion, Tennessee state Sen. Doug Henry said:

"Rape, ladies and gentlemen, is not today what rape was. Rape, when I was learning these things, was the violation of a chaste woman, against her will, by some party not her spouse. Today it’s simply, ‘Let’s don’t go forward with this act.’ "

And in my home state of Kansas, efferts are still in the works to make abortion clinics release the names of all former patients.

Helping in Iraq? After the way the Bush Admin treated its allies? Ya gotta be kidding....

Happy Birthday to Susan B. Anthony who was born on this day in 1820. Seems appropo to give her a shout out!

hmmm Patsi... Sen Henry is saying "if only these women were "chaste" we could have sympathy for them. What a strange comment !

Thanks for posting the info. I am off to bed. goodnight all.

I've learned to like Fry...he reminds me of my Best Republican Buddy in Kansas..

Awwwwwwwwwwwww FD

You know you are our pet conservative troglodyte. Now don't prove me wrong by adding lol to the end of your sentences.

Maxtrue needs to work on his charm.

NATO tired of America telling it what to do? Screw them. Let them defend Kosov against the Russians. Let them deal with Pakistan and Afghanistan where poor NATO doesn't want to be shot. Europeans have 2 million soldiers, most who do not want to be soldiers. Just parade all that hardware because they don't TRUST EACH OTHER. Frankly, I'm sick of it. Let Paris and Berlin fail within range of the Mullahs missiles. Who cares if Russia extorts Europe with energy and murders politicians they don't like. Let Europe return to its days of killing while Muslims become the dominat force. Sure that's the ticket Eurotom. Hell, you don't need us as China knocks you down in economic power. Screw America.

Get serious. The biggest danger to NATO falling apart is to Europeans. In your arrogance you think you can thwart adversaries all by yourself. Sarkozy knows differently. So does Brown and Merkel. So does Eastern Europe. Yes, Sharia law for Europe. LOL. Russia gets it now. What they couldn't dominate by force they can rule through the apathy and dellusion of Europeans.

Yep, that's the ticket. Maybe Hitler wasn't such a bad idea after all. Maybe Stalin was the Second Coming. Maybe Obama agrees with you and can set America straight.

Reagan's body is twitching and so is FDR's JFK's Truman's and Eisenhower's.

You can sense what I think about your statement. NATO such a big help? LOL

Hank Williams
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JczEyQHBLEw

Jack

pffffft .. Kosovo has become a disaster in Europe. With open borders criminals from Kosovo are going around Western Europe along with Albanian gangs doing car and house-jackings and human trafficking. Who gives a shit about Kosovo?

You know very little about Europe Max... Have you lived here? I think you are going a bit over the top and usually you write some rather cogent statements. As Europe grows within the E.U. what is developing is a sort of "United States of Europe". Next year there will be an elected European President for the first time. There are also plans, or there were, of Europe creating its own international military force.. That may have changed with Schroeder and Chirac gone. I say "international" military force because Europe is not yet a "country" but it seems ultimately that it is heading that way.

Reagan's body was twitching long before they buried him.

ON this note I am off to bed. I've participated more than my fair share for today. Nato pfffffft.. who da fuck cares?

"I have often said "Americans are stupid" --- we chose Reagan twice! I could understand Bush Sr. over Dukakis because Dukakis was about as inspiring as an anal fissure."

ROFL Tom! A big ditto to that one!

Unlike Obama, I don't give a rat's ass about charm. I'm not running for the White House.

Geneva Convention? Read it all especially the part about what a legal combatant is, you know, a uniform etc. Terrorists are not covered under legal combatant. Or perhaps, show me where the GC says terrorists enjoy the rights of Americans. Yes, a Russian soldier does or an Iranian soldier. In the past, people who blow up civilians were shot. Do you understand this? No charm needed. WMD can come in small packages.

My point Jamie? It is to express what many Clinton supporters feel, but are too afraid to say. To express what many mainstream Liberals think about the neoliberal revolution.

What I express is what McCain will blast away with. I have no desire to win over the moonbats and find far more civility and ratonality in Frydaddy than Kossaks. I know I don't agree with Frydaddy on many things but there is a common ground, an understanding that the American experiment is based on a tension between moderate Conservative and Liberals principles. Our path has been largely a centrist compromise. There is a mutal respect and an ability to see two side to the same coin. Not so with the rabid Right and the neoliberal Left. Why in the hell should I charm what is leading the Left into quick sand while compromising our leadership and security? Frydaddy will enjoy the conversation at the stubborn facts link i provided to all above.

Bush made huge mistakes. Rove played a poor long term game. Now is the time for the Left to step up and watching how it does this with what realism is astonishing. From one snake oil salesman to another. So charm has little to do with it. Hillary ain't perfect, but most honest Republicans know she is better for this country than Obama. There is a record of bipartisanship, strength in foreign policy and a refusal to pander to the Far Left. She is a strong woman with a decent track record. The attacks on her by media and the Far Left make Republicans laugh because they have suffered from this crap for decades. But after the smile fades, as Amercians, they are far more worried about Obama than Hillary. The mistakes he will likely make and the baggage he comes in with after all his campaign speeches and short confusing record cannot hope to deal with the storm approaching. His adminstration will be throttled by political and global forces. And why should the Republicans throw him a life line? Hillary has earned one from the moderate Republicans.

So no charm and no regrets. Why do Republicans prefer Hillary but salivate over Obama? For the reason Frydaddy and I could have a good conversation while chugging a beer. I don't vilify his position, nor does he say mine is garbage. That is why centrists are needed now, not pretenders or story tellers. There is one huge mess brewing out there and I will not exclude the sentiments and spirit of half of this country to promote a fairy tale.

Nope, charmless....

LOL

I can see it now
NeoCons for Clinton!!!

Grab this url before its taken
WWW.BATSHITCRAZY.org

Jack
Who was amazed some one hadn't laid claim to this url already.

One of my best friends is French. I have many friends in England. I live in Mahattan and have many friends from Italy, Spain, Holland, Finland.

First they tell me Europe will never be a United States. They do not trust each other. They have grown so used to the Nanny State they have little stomach for defending themselves or their interests. Unlike America immigrants exploited for labor don't assimilate well. I don't want to generalize. Germans have another view. Eastern Europe is also a different picture and favor realtions with Europe. You didn't address what is going on in France. Brown backs the US and you claim that one day Europe will have a miltiary, This is rather a wish for now. You have little native energy sources and demographics is working against you. To your East you have Putin. Feel comfortable with that? To your South you have expanding Islam and confusion in Africa. Meanwhile China is making all the resource deals and America is your biggest partner. Kosovo? I detect a bit of racism there. Wasn't it Euope that encouraged Clinton to act? You think what is going on there won't spread. Yes, to hell with Kosovo. And to Hell with Iraq...LOL

Yes, overlook history. Let Europeans call Bush Hilter and Gitmo a Gulag. I know it is politically correct over there, yes? Let your welfare state take you under unless you are Norway, who is still too afraid to kick out a jihadist.

Don't get me wrong. I love Europe and yes I have traveled. Europe hasn't been very realistic. They are going to find their mutual distrust and threats squeezing them terribly. They do not have growing populations unless you include the immigrants they have trouble assimilating.

Soon Russians will be patrol the waters. Islamist will be knocking on the door. The Yen will rule. Oh the Brave New World without NATO. And we Americans are so stupid. You say Europeans don't want Hillary. If you say so.

Mitt Romney's theme song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdzdEQOHL_I

Jack

It is quite common for anyone sporting a JFK take on foreign policy to called a NEOCON. By today's standard here, Bill Clinton was a NEOCON. FDR and TRuman were NEOCONs. Dukakis rode on a tank...how neocon. Support missile defense..a neocon. In fact if you read Obama's paper in Foreign Affairs before he waxed Left to pander, he was a NEOCON. Defending Israel....NEOCON. Invading Pakistan...NEOCON. Sending troops to defend countries against Chevez...NEOCON. Adding divisions to our military....NEOCON. Modernizing nukes to prevent mishaps...NEOCON. Defending removing Saddam....NECON (and criminal).

I could go on but that wouldn't be charming.

The point is that the neoliberals have tried to purge anything that could be hawkish (give Obama a pass) from the Party that has represented the greatest Wartime leaders. How ironic. As I said, one attack here, and there goes Obama. I guess he and Kerry were lying when they said Iran will not be allowed to get the bomb....NEOCON

Such briliance. Craig this thread should show you exactly where McCain will go. This is why Hillary first ran into problems.....NEOCON

Maybe Obama will make Kucincih the first Sec of Peace. Shall we call this neorealism?

Jamie, Patsi,

Barry ask me to send this to you. I think he is truly sorry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pYTOHernds

Grin/duck /run

Jack

Jamie,

30% includes state and federal taxes. I'm just throwing a figure and because I'm slow and I like to use whole numbers, $100,000, and a family of 4.. Suppose you made $100k a year, between state, county, local, city and fed tax you'll end up paying 30% in taxes. And this doesn't even include sales tax, gas tax. Out of your $100k you'll be lucky to have $45k to pay for housing, clothes, food, insurance, etc. Increase taxes and you squeeze productivity, spending, investment. Reduce taxes increases the economy, because people buy more, business build more and hire employees, resulting in a larger flow of tax revenue.

BTW tylenol, I read you comment, but I won't tell anyone lol.

Time for Moonlighting. Night.

"Out of your $100k you'll be lucky to have $45k to pay for housing, clothes, food, insurance, etc. "

My problem with taxes is that by the time you throw in all the taxes and fees, the average family as you indicate pays between 45 - 55% in taxes and fees of one kind or another.

My friends in Britain pay roughly the same percentage.

What I object to is what they get for their money vs what we get for our money.

America was at its richest and strongest when the majority of the tax dollars went to promote and encourage a middle class (virtually free universities, lots of jobs dedicated to infrastructure, small class sizes with a wide ranging curriculum, excellent mail delivery, libraries, hospitals, wages that allowed home purchases etc.).

That is simply no longer true. More and more of the tax dollars go to feather the nests of international corporations while racking up a debt that is steadily turning us into a third world nation.

lol
no one around but some groupies anfd cultists.

I know Fry.. ya never do :)

hi bri.. how ya doing? did ya get some sleep?

a little Friday thrill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp0ccQVy1og

Fry,

Texas does not have an income tax. We pay about 8.25% as a sales taxes and we have property taxes but no State Income Tax.

yo soy Horsedooty!

FD

You need to sharpen your pencil A couple making 100,000 in taxable income. Pays $17841 federal income tax. if they both have employment then the SS is around $7000. Add another $7000 here in Missouri for state and local income tax. Lets assume that they spend all their income on things that charge sales tax
That is getting close to 10% here. another $7000. taxs on a $300,000 dollar house $ 5000 and that would be high too.

All of these numbers are shot high so your family in Missouri wouldn't even reach a tax bill for all their taxes of $44000.

Jack

Jack,

Just tell him to keep on moving

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulMLRkQOQr0

barkin dogs too... we have our major fundraiser tomorrow night.. BUT i have 3 days off next week to recoup...

a little chuckle for the evening

http://www.markfiore.com/

Doots.. Texas isnt a state :P

Now you've got me in the mood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnEtRUcKGwc&feature=related

Jamie wrote:

"America was at its richest and strongest when the majority of the tax dollars went to promote and encourage a middle class. . .More and more of the tax dollars go to feather the nests of international corporations while racking up a debt that is steadily turning us into a third world nation."

hear hear Jamie - we really need to focus on ourselves first. Although I have a really good friend who has a PhD in PoliSci who was able to explain to me Foreign Policy theory in quite a bit of detail and more things made sense - about having to be the most powerful country and all. She's a dem for Hillary-she was just trying to help me understand HOW people can actually think like the NeoCons as I couldn't wrap my head around it.

Anderson is doing an excellent job with panel.

Jamie

I had the same shock as I looked at the HIghwaymen as I did last week when I wasn lookin at the Texas Tornados. Half of them are dead I'm getting older and grayer, damnit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94AF_-RIl0E

This youtube stuff is addictive ya know

Jack

Andrew Sullivan will be on REal Time tonight

Does anyone participate in the after show blog?

http://www.hbo.com/billmaher/

Wendy lol
saved it to my favorites file
Thanks

Jack

Sorry Jack....my old computer doesn't "read" YouTube. So it is moot with me....what song were you playing?

Patsi

Hank Williams

"Cold Cold Heart"

"I tried so hard my dear to show that youre my every dream.
Yet youre afraid each thing I do is just some evil scheme
A memory from your lonesome past keeps us so far apart
Why cant I free your doubtful mind and melt your cold cold heart"

Jack;-)

ROFL....Jack, I do know a little about Hank....who understood how to wow a crowd. Even if he had to get married several times in public to do it.

That is the fun thing about Youtube there are a number of his performances that were recorded for TV so you can watch him.

Jack

is this mark penn and hilliary in a compromising situation? lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYOinpV2REQ

imo nancy pelosi has put an end to the florida and michigan debate, also the superdelegate debate that has been raging lately.....
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=14&entry_id=24286

My first special comment or just plain blog comment.

http://patterns2.blogspot.com/

tt

Read how were winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people.

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/76662/

God Bless.

Ally: I don't care for those eggs...but give me a big solid chocolate rabbit? YES!
Rebel Ren:
I finally learned to buy "spice" jelly beans...much better!
I think I really messed up eating this Valentine candy...don't-a-feel-a-so-good....

Well, that's better...my monthly fried baloney on grilled bread w/ mayo and sweet pickles fixed me right up.
Question:

What year did Johnny Carson move to the coast from NYC?

1972.

Oh good... So Pelosi is for denying Michigan and Florida delegates from being seated at the DNC. Well Dems, you can count those states into the Repug column. LOL ! Only seat them if they don't decide the election Pelosi says. And this is democracy? The superdelegates were created to counter the mayhem that happened in 1972 and to counter the over zealous liberal wing of the party. As you recall, the nomination was not settled until in the wee hours of the morning.. 3 am as I recall.

The old saying is true..

Never underestimate the ability of the Democrats to pull a defeat out of the hands of victory.

LOL... once again the Dems go down in the fire of its own stupidity. I am so done with my party.

Hey ET,m

check out theolympian.com or olyblog.net

Riot on TESC Campus last night at Dead Prez concert.
Real fun :)

OH those crazy greeners.. ok I 'll check

Disgusting.. absolutely disgusting. And of course these hoodlums brought graffiti spray paint with them. I see TESC had denigrated into hip-hop mayhem instead of causing trouble for political causes. I am actually very angry reading this.

Rez are you Native American?

pretty bad PR for the college. looks like both outsiders and students were involved. IMO Some of the hostility between youth and cops is a carry from the violent anti war protests a few months back . Hasta luego.

Did TESC have violent anti-war protests? I remember when we marched against the first Iraq war and the marchers, led by TESC took over the State Capitol... they were standing on desks doing the "hokey-pokey"

I guess everyone has gone to bed. it is 9:12 am here.

Eurotom,

I understand your feelings. Several friends of mine had the same comment this morning. They have never voted Republican in their lives and now the moement of truth is approaching. McCain seems in better shape today with some help from Pelosi and Zbig.

For those wishing to state specifically where in the US Constitution torture is prohibited see link below. This is not an endorsement of torture, simply a look at whether the Constitution itself prohibits torture. Also a quick look at the GC which protects legal combatants but not illegal conbatants.

http://stubbornfacts.us/politics/pop_quiz#comment-13077