Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

I think McCain should keep the same rhetoric. It clinches a Dem win. Poor old man.

by the way, Craig, when you said "trotting out" didn't you mean "tottering out"? just wondering

Well I just finally scanned the news... It's looking more and more like the race is Obama's to lose. I am very tired so can't really articulate much here yet, but like most of the Hillary supporters I am very undecided what to do if she doesn't get the nomination. Of course I am only one person, so who cares?

Cheers,

ET

"Feel free to holler at me if you need to."

ROFL, Julia.....so you two got Warren started.....it sounded like something he'd come up with. Warren, I stand corrected.

It was a decisive win. And props to Obama's team for getting out that young vote.

As far as McCain's campaigning, I think he'll end up just letting the 527s orchestrated by Rove do the job. Not to mention the security alerts and terror threats we'll have starting in August, no matter who the candidate is.

EXTRA....EXTRA....READ ALL ABOUT IT!!!!

Obama talks on water!!!!

Bear

Thanks for all the Lauryn Hill clips, from last night!!(I go to bed too early...I miss all the fun).

Speaking of clips, here is one by Cher that really spoke to me when I was a troubled teen, and a troubled teen I was! :-) It's the song that really made me a fan from an album in 1975 called STARS. It was not "cool" to like her then, but I thought she was awesome and I couldn't believe how much shit she took from the public because she chose to divorce Sonny. Anyway, this song was written by Jimmy Webb: JUST THIS ONE TIME.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy4yNCfkmWs

P.S. Can we make this relevant to the current campaigns? Maybe it describes Hillary's battles to reach more people who believe in what she says and hopes to do for the American people :-)

Craig
Interesting theory....
Two questions or points

To use the words experienced is one thing but to actually have experience is different. If you line up the three, McCain by far leads the way in experience, fact is Hillary is closer to Obama in actual experience if you measure time as an office holder. And not count the time she was in the kitchen.

How the American people will view the difference. Since Hillary is not much different then Obama’s experience her words are empty – among other reasons she is not in control. McCain’s words have backing and he is consistent.

I should have said. Hillary is closer to Obama with LACK of Experience,

My "word of the day"...

BARACKTALK
--making campaign promises out the wazoo 8D

Is that BAR - Rack Mountain?

Mika and Scarborough are unusually quiet this morning. I was expecting a total "gloat-fest" from them.

They seem a bit nervous. Maybe they think HRC has nothing to lose and now she is going to get all ugly on BHO.

EuroTom, What part over the pond are you

Until last night, Jim was 100% sure he was voting for Hillary. 8)

Last night, after watching Obama's speech he said, "I don't know, hon...he talks a good game...".

OK, so now two things have to happen, in our home...
1) I need to suspend his TV privileges!!

2) I need to use my "wifely powers" to lure him back to the dark-side and make sure he stays here, in "Hillaryville", with me. 8)

Please WATCH this clip:

Chris Matthews Humiliates Obama Supporter State Senator Kirk Watson

"What has Senator Barack Obama accomplished in the Senate?

Can you name any, can you name anything he's accomplished as a congressman?

"Nah, I'm not going to be able to do that. ... " adds Watson, stuttering. "

http://www.taylormarsh.com/

GORDO...they just showed that clip on MSNBC!!

Oh Lordy...it didn't take Chris and Joe too long to start to turn on BHO.

GORDO
Thanks for the link...
Wow, problem is Matthews was taking on just a poor little texas boy... You know them boys from texas aint so great with their words

BHO has seen nothing yet. Wait until the Reps start pounding on him. His wife's statement the other day will be brought up over and over again. He's going to be getting it from them and since Hillary now has nothing to lose she is going to go after him too. Chris finally started to ask BHO's supporters tougher questions the other day, so maybe the media is turning on him too. No more free ride now that your down the home stretch.

Oh sure.....when I'm home , all you people do is fight. When I'm at work , you talk about lesbian tendencies and sex! Thanks a lot , people!

good morning gang....
well.... it looks like the Democratic nominee will be Obama....
I will support and vote for him.... hell..... this year I would have voted for Nash's can of tuna if it had a D on it's back.....

Craig.... you must have been tired when you wrote that TM.... of course you know that comparing the parties nomination process for their respective candidates with the general election is comparing apple to oranges.....

I want Obama to win.... and bring in many more Democratic Congressmen and Senators with him....... but I have no illusion that it will be a cake walk....

This is old(no pun intended), but funny...

http://www.cbs.com/latenight/lateshow/top_ten/index/php/20080206.phtml

pssst..Corey.. we wait till you go to work :)

I think it's time Obama started talking about voting dem all the way down the line.. it doesnt do any good to have a Dem president and then have both houses go Rep... this has got to be a systematic change...

LushisLinda, did you feel that feel that our votes last week meant very little and that Texas, Ohio, and PA meant everything.

There's a difference between Dem. primary voters, and more mature general election voters. Dems don't care about qualifications. But general election voters do!

Why else would the most qualified Dems (Richardson, Biden, Dodd) be eliminated early, whereas the least qualified (Urkel, err, Obama) is their nominee?

Chuck(I hear angels singing)Todd, just made the exact same point Jim did this morning...

...in '92, BJC was the "new kid on the block"...no one had any hope that he could be elected...he admitted to drug use...he was young...had no experience, blah, blah, blah...

Jim reminded me how excited we both were to vote for BJC!!

Then he asked me if I thought we were just getting old!!!

My answer...YES WE ARE..YES WE ARE!!!

ROTFLMAO!!

I was excited after the rally but now I feel we have been dumped. I feel the same thing about the people in WI.

RebRenee,
So you are so jaded (and not saying it is wrong) with the job of the defeated 2006 majority in the congress and bush - that you would auto disregard the facts and issues with the general election?

I would say that is a scary situation to blind vote against something that is not understood

vadaryl...how are you??

No, I don't feel that way. I am glad we took the time to go to the HRC rally and to cast a vote for her!!!

cheer up...it's not over!! 8)

I am doing ok, a little down, glad we went and it was nice meeting you, I just feel her speeches after the primaries left me cold

ohhhhhhhh, vadaryl...don't be sad!! 8(

Everything will turn out as it is meant to be...

Think positive thoughts about Hillary!!!

It was great meeting you, Iris and Hilary too!! I know that Iris took lots of incredible pics, but you have to send me your email addy...I have one pic of you that is hilarious!!

lushislinda52 at yahoo dot com

If anyone has posted this - I apologize in advance.

But this one might be funnier than the Wilhelm video clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU08cYX-7y4

Coming from Chris Matthews should hearten Obama supporters that he considers him the nominee. Coming from Chris Matthews should also worry them that he's starting to turn on him.

Guess a chill didn't go up his leg during last nights speech.

Obama gives opponents plenty of ammunition
by Gene Lyons

"So far, Obama’s strategy of playing upon the Washington media clique’s loathing for everything Clinton has succeeded. To the extent that Hillary Clinton is polarizing, however, it’s due to 16 years of deliberate character assassination, accusing her of everything, including drug smuggling and murder. The basic GOP method is to portray Democrats as fraudulent elitists who “Blame America First” and seek power by encouraging minorities to see themselves as victims. (The real victims, of course, being Rush Limbaugh listeners. ) Obama, alas, has given them plenty to work with. If he wins the nomination, will voters still recognize him come November ?"

http://www.nwanews.com/story.php?paper=adg§ion=Editorial&storyid=217354

Wendy,

Gotta say, Chris Matthew will always turn on a candidate. He an equal oppotunity player of Political Hardball.

That said, I really hope he finds the weak spots now, so that the very sharp Obama camp can correct course.

Like he said last night in the speech, "I know
I have imperfections".

Julia - as to your post from the last thread:

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/02/obama-takes-wisconsin-by-storm.html#comment-38200

That is what has been bothering me - among other things...but the hypocrisy as well.

Sheila re: Matthews - I know he's a total jerk - but at least now I can sit back and laugh a little bit about it since I don't have to take any of this all too seriously anymore.

Still hoping for a Hillary comeback but like I said yesterday...I'm a realist and know that maybe difficult.

Well, the State newspaper in Columbia must really think it's over; Obama's victory didn't even make it above the fold.

ET - your 6:55 post from last thread:

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/02/obama-takes-wisconsin-by-storm.html#comment-38235

Well said.

I know Wendy...really I do.

But if i can speak in my eternal hopeful personality speak,

The first phase is almost over. So I would like to congratulate all of us for over coming a lot of bitterness between US.

And that including our Hillary people. Because we really know who is really going to win in November. We are!

Very tired here and still in shock that Clinton wasn't closer. She has now allowed Obama to pull out ahead.

But Clinton is right. It's not over till its over. The Clinton's have something in the works and we just have to wait to see.

The Obama camp has to work very hard in 3 states now. He has to pull out enough to stop this. She only has to tie in order to keep going to the convention.

WHY is she sure the Superdelegates will circle the wagons and help her above Obama?

I'd love to know

So take heart. I am still for Obama, but I am a realist and the "Horserace" has always held a total facination for me!

Ditto on the "well said" for EuroToms post

Wendy: In regard to video posted at 8:18 AM

OK...yet another guy they can't send out to do press! Loved loved loved it. Thanks for cheering my up this morning! You rock!

I actually just checked the delegates and it appears to be only a net of about 9 delegates for BO last night - looks bad on paper but wasn't that bad.

It was a quick glance...

Keepin' hope alive. There is a debate tomorrow.

Sheila I'm not sure how pulled together we'll be. I don't plan on doing any campaigning for Obama should things continue to move in his direction- I have nothing good to say about him - I'll leave that to the Obama supporters like David Wilhelm and Senator Watson - they're doing a very good job promoting their candidate and his ideas - they don't need my help.

It will be interesting to see how the military men and women and their families vote.

I think we will begin to see more press coverage of our military , which in turn will bring the war and the military readiness issues back in front of the jobless and uninsured.

Wendy: Go watch the whole thing at this link. It's even funnier because there are people laughing in the background of MSNBC. Day late and a dollar short but funny nonetheless:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFXxQJWkH3k

From GORDO's 8:18 post...

"An Edwards aide commented dryly, “Next thing you know, he’ll be rooting for the Tar Heels.” "
--that's funny

the bamboozled comments
--of course Spike Lee has endorsed BHO

the Malcolm X comments
--scary

There goes Sheila the Nun again! LOL! :)

Wasn't it GWsr who looked at his watch during a debate?

Anything can happen, I hope the upcoming debate isn't another "love in"

typo GBsr

lushislinda - I just sent you some pictures

ha ha ...dang i need some coffee

Bush sr....

Jamie - interesting about the democratic primary up there in Washington.

Wendy – Was on the phone with one of my girlfriends on Bainbridge Island, WA yesterday (where I lived before I moved to Iowa) and asked her if she had turned in her primary ballot. She said, "No, why would I?" I told her to get her butt in gear and go drop it off at her polling place (she is an HRC supporter.) I find the results very interesting as well!

oh...OK..thanks vadaryl!!! Lemme go check 'em out!!

Catch up on your "world in flames" reding while I catch up on the postings.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gpx2Q0rEGxh4F9s1RuZ9UIueG3TQ

Ally - just finished watching the entire clip. That is so much better than the Wilhelm tape. The very end...the exchange between Oberman and Matthews was also very funny.

I love how Matthews had this serious look on his face the entire time and during the end - his grave look of concerns. As if he's suddenly decided to become a serious newsman.

I still think MSNBC is tabloid journalism - but I enjoyed that none - the - less.

Why is hillary having a rally in NY? What good does that do?

McCain maybe saying experience but whom ever said watch the surrogates....although this could be the dumbest .
http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/20/wanker-national-park/

From a Texan, explaining the mood:

"Texas has an open primary, which means anyone can vote in the Democratic primary, INCLUDING Republicans and, of course, independents. Now that McCain has all but wrapped up the Republican nomination, these voters are thinking, "What should I do with my vote? How can I put it to good use?" And a lot of them are concluding "Hmmmm. How about we stick a fork in Hillary's political career once and for all. Yummy."

Vadaryl: Was watching CNN when they cut out from the Hillary rally and Kiran Chentry (at least I think it was her) and she said something to the effect that Hillary was "looking exhausted, sounding exhausted."

Thanks for the pics, vadaryl!!

YOU'VE GOT MAIL!!

" I expect to see some class from her.
And from her supporters, please."

Does this mean that when He speaks I have to start clutching a Bible to my chest and moaning Hosanna before I finally faint from orgasmic ecstacy in front of the television set?

I've already said I'd vote for the guy.

My dog got really sick last night...hubby wasn't feeling much better, so I am glad I missed all the posts last night...from a brief read, it sounded ugly.

By no means it is over for the dem nominaton or repug war in November. There will be plenty of politics moving forward...and anything can happen to any of the candidates now.

Tonight is the last total lunar eclipse of this decade...so the party starts here at 7pm (total eclipse by 8pm mountain time). I think I will enjoy the celestial event and give the political event a rest. And no one candidate is in total eclipse just yet...just the moon. And I noticed a few of you were showing yours last night. : )

monday I spent the nite in Austin, TX. The news was reporting that the percentages were 51% Clinton and 49% Obama. They have a CNN debate for tomorrow night. Things may change after that.

Austin is full of younger people attending Uni of Texas and working in the computer related businesses. In fact, you can't swing a cat by the tail and not hit at least one computer geek.

yo soy Horsedooty!

cnn.com was carrying it. It's over now. She did look tired.

Wendy: And how Olbermann really wanted to change the subject! The Fourth Estate...yeah, right.

Good morning all. Last night I told Wendy that I rarely do politics on my blog since it is more about other interests such as history. Today will be one of the rare times.

Last night when for the very first time Chris Matthews demanded specifics from the Obama rep and got nada while Olbermann looked stunned that Chris did it, my thought was that MSNBC finally realized that they had gone too far.

So later, I'll invite you all over to read "BETRAYAL". It won't be anti-Obama except in the sense of what is wrong with having an unchecked media and how the shrinkage of media ownership now has the potential to destroy a democracy.

jamie ------------

The next to last paragraph in this link is interesting. A search of the Archives using "LBs" (spelled out) provides much more info.

http://dailyhowler.com/dh021408.shtml

" I expect to see some class from her.
And from her supporters, please."

Mmmhmmm - steppin on her speech last night like he did John Edwards speech when Edwards dropped out of the race. Classy. But then again, I shouldn't be surprised...we've been dealing with a double standard for the entire campaign so whatever.

Here is my new theme for the rest of the campaign:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DXahx3Jtcg

This link is better for my theme song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DXahx3Jtcg

I have asked Obama supporters the same question that Chris asked and got the same answer he got. So how is this guy so popular and no one knows what he is all about. I know go to the web and find out, it's all there, but most people are counting on the media like Chris to do the work for us. The Cable News channels ratings are going thru the roof, so it's about time they start doing their job.

Vadaryl:

Yet when you go to the Web there really isn't anything there.

OK

Keep in mind the country is still split right down the middle. They currently have pretty equal support although i'll admit...he is slightly ahead.

Here is how he's doing it.

Young voters that for the most part don't have a clue about issues just enjoying the ride...it's like going to a concert...he's young, good looking, and they don't need any real substance to move them-their parents are still paying many of the bills after all.

They have short attention spans...hopefully for older Obama supporters that do have a clue it will last through November.

African Americans

Men who hate strong women because it threatens their masculinity

And then your average Clinton haters.

For all of these groups...he could read the phone book into the microphone and they'd still vote for him.

LIL

"how excited we both were to vote for BJC!!"

The Obama folks often bring this up. What they don't bring up is that Clinton had run for Congress, been elected Arkansas Attorney General, been elected to two terms as governor, and was president of the DLC and head of the Governors association

There were the campaigns of McGovern and Dukakis and the speech at a previous Dem convention (that bit didn't go so well. That boy do love to talk).

Anyway, the "boy Governor" as he was known when he started to run for the Presidency had a whole lot more experience than "baby Senator" Obama.

i have been justified in getting out of the democrat party back in 1984 when they put mondale up for president ,,,,dems have a way of making complete asses out of themselves as history indicates.....starting with mcgovern (lost 49 states to nixen)....then carter (nice guy terrible pres) ....mondale (reagan landslide).......... then dukakus(bush landslide),,,,,,,,,,clinton (finally a winner thanks to perot)...........al gore (we all know that story)....then the wimp kerry(no balls) ,,,then they pick a left wing crazy ...howard dean to run the party......,,,and now a super con artist that has a cult left wing following .......like i said in the beginning ....im so glad i dont have to say im a democrat......i changet to independent in 1984.......and im so happy i did because i might have switched to republican party and that i dont want..

The "inexperience" attack isn't working in this Democratic primary because so many of the whacky left refuse to allow our candidates to talk tough on national security without attacking them as "Bush-Cheney lite".

But what the whacky left doesn't realize is that the Presidential election will be ALL ABOUT NATIONAL SECURITY, just like it always is. Their short-term memory enables them to forget that the GOP won in 2004 despite the fact that they ran an AWOL deserter against a Democrat who was an actual Vietnam war hero.

McCain hitting Obama for his lack of experience as well as being unqualified as Commander-in-chief will not only work well with the GOP, it will also win over Independents, Reagan Democrats, as well as a majority of current Clinton supporters.

zumper -- I don't see Obama as a left wing wacko....he's very much in bed with corporate America, lobbyists-- the whole nine yards. Certainly as much as HRC. He'll spend most of his time in office bending over for Republican interests....

Zumper - I have considered over the last few years switching to Indie.

Really I'm not a lifelong Dem. I started out in the peace and freedom party...ah youth (still voted for Clinton) ...switched to Green Party (still voted for Clinton)...Nader drove me out...then Dem with the prospect of Hillary funning for President...might go ahead and jump to Indie - Dems seem to have lost their Friggen minds.

Craig,

Where do you fall with the experience argument? You seem to be tipping your hand by saying "it turns out that a lot of voters are not interested in resumes." Whether you intend it or not, that gives the clear implication that Obama does not have a strong resume--an implication many would disagree with. He's been a civil rights attorney (3 years), a constitutional law professor at the well-respected Univ. of Chicago (11 years), a state Senator (8 years), a U.S. Senator (3 and 1/2 years), and a community organizer in Chicago's inner city areas (3 years). I think that's undoubtedly one of the most diverse backgrounds we've had in a presidential candidate, yet on top of it he has experience growing up with a single mother, dealing with identity as both a black and a white individual, living in Indonesia, having a Kenyan father, an Indonesian step-father, and so on. The experience of these areas, when one speaks of resume, run deep, and I think the press and others would do well to consider that when reporting (whether it's advertently or inadvertently overlooked).

From GB Shaw (this is for you, Chris Matthews)

"There are two tragedies in life. One is not to get your heart's desire. The other is to get it."

I think this sort of sums-up the glee over BHO...now you have him, Chris.

JoeCHI - makes some very good points about the 2004 election. Seemed like a slam dunk for Kerry the war hero - that didn't turn out so good.

The Mathew's interview makes that Texan look extremely stupid. Something new? I'm not sure how everyone imputes that to BO. The guy should not have been permitted to be a spokesperson for the campaign. Big mistake of his and the campaign's.

Ok, I have heard the Michelle comments many times now. What I first noticed was that she said "really proud". I use the word really quite a bit- really too often at times.

Michelle and I are the same age. I was touring Boston College on the day Reagan was elected, my junior high years were of gas rationing, one of the biggest stories as a high school student was the pull out of the Olympics. Then there was the hostages in Iran.

As a liberal democrat in college time- The Reagan years? I did not feel really proud. One of my first overt political acts was to call up to WBZ when in college to criticize Reagan's bombing of Libya. So many people called to criticize me a "rich college kid" and lesbian, (really- every caller complained for the next 3 hours!) that they made a commercial out of it.

The Clinton years were a lot better and things felt okay- I got married and had 2 kids during this time. Things were good relatively.

Then Sept. 11 and all that followed in Iraq. So, when I heard Michelle say that, I though that many liberals of our age would feel the same way- there has not been a lot to feel really proud of- Can we love our country and want better= yes. Can we see the potential? yes. But have we felt really proud of its actions, and of the American public rolling over to allow things to happen?

When I have heard Michelle speak she really made a connection. One specific thing she said was that she wanted her children to be able to go to other countries and not be afraid as a Americans. She spoke of the possibility of this country, that she got a terrific education and her dad was a blue collar guy with a mom at home. Her message was all about restoring the possibility and idea that is America.

So, Taylor Marsh and her posse can make this be the be all and end all, but I think it points out a generational thing more than anything else. I love my country and can see that it can be so much stronger and better.

In our lifetimes, as liberal Americans, there have been many things that have not left us to feel "really proud" of our country.

Wendy, I agree with you. I don't want this to come out wrong, but he's the flavor of the month for the media

If Senate experience is your main concern, Biden was your man!

Oh, and I should add, graduate from Columbia Univ. in political science and international relations, and as often noted, of Harvard Law, leading the Harvard Law Review as the first African American.

Hardison - note the blank stare on the Senators face towards the end of this video when he's asked to name one accomplishment of Obama's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFXxQJWkH3k

Hardison...that pales to BJC's resume. And he too, grew-up in a "broken home,"

mornin' all.

Well, it looks like HIllary's run is all but over - TX & OH will likely either be the final straw or the last breath of air she'll get. A 62 delegate spread at this point is pretty large and hard to overcome. Congratulations to Obama's organization - they did a superior job. Mark Penn's brilliant strategy took away any chance Hillary had in the "stretch" contests. I do not like what this portends, but it is what it is. Assuming Hillary doesn't do any better in TX & OH than about a 10 point spread, we will be faced with the old coot ("Get off my yard") versus the whippersnapper ("Nyah, nyah.") in November, and frankly, I don't like it. All that said, it really ain't over 'til it's over, and it ain't over yet - party unity or no.

It will be interesting to see what mechanations occur to try and sway both the "regular" and super delegates.

Zumper,

Kind of negative aren't you?

wendy
your right...the dem party is gone look at our 2 leaders in congress ....pelosi and reid....constantly out maneuvered by the minority and cant get anthing done ....i never thought id say this but we do need a third party in this country.....we keep ending up with candidates who are phonies on both sides (look at bush)

I am glad Chris keep asking, and asking for input. Also when the guy tried to switch to Hillary, they both said no, we asked about BO. Go Chris!!!!

"interesting about the democratic primary up there in Washington."

If I had been advising the Clinton campaign, I would have treated it differently. The Primary didn't count on the Democratic side, but I would have have run advertisements to encourage them to vote anyway to show how the caucus system failed to reflect the will of the people. That would have meant going against the state party, but considering what a poor job they did for her on the caucus, she probably should have anyway.

I hope Wolfie does a good job tomorrow on the CNN debate. I hope he asked policy questions, not what BO wife said, or the copied speech the other day. If he has to at least wait until the end so they don't spend the whole evening discussing that.

What was the count yesterday in Washington?

vadaryl, with 57% of the vote in, it was Obama 50%, Clinton 47% and Edwrds 3%.

shelia
im 67 and heard all this crap my whole life ......wheyher you want to admit it or not this is a centrist country and extreme wings of both party's are not healthy for the future of this country.........look at our deficits and debt....our standing in the world ......we are being pushed out of our number one standing on a few different fronts ........im an ex marine and voted for kennedy while i was in service ....i love this country but i get sick seeing all this extremism on both sides ....obama a senator for 2 years may be our president .....how many mistakes will he make because of inexperience.......the situation this country is in cant afford a major mistake ......we have to move to the center....billk clinton was a centrist and left office with this country in good shape ....we moved to the right with bush jr and look what happened ....obama will move us to the left and can put this country back another 10 years

That is close, does Hillary still have a chance to come out ahead or what's left is BO areas?

Rezdog - as to your 9:54 post - it goes to the heart of the campaign - it exposes the nothingness of the campaign if his supporters don't even know his record or what he'll do beyond INSPIRE people.

This is enhanced by the David Wilhelm debacle

Wendy, i'll be sure to check out the video, but to both you and "blonde wino," the reality is that he has had significant accomplishments, which i hope you've looked at his website to research before making claims like that. But here's some i know of or have read about there: working to bring ethics reform in Illinois and Congress, disallowing the huge issue of gifts, trips and meals from lobbyists; working with Dick Lugar to try to secure Russia's loose nukes; working for his first bill passed in Congress with Tom Coburn (no easy Rep. cat to deal with) to allow citizens to see how their taxes are spent; capital punishmnet reform in IL, requiring video taping of interrogations after some innocents turned up on death row; bringing over $100 million in tax cuts to families in IL via a state earned income tax credit; expanded early childhood ed in IL. Then his other jobs are all about getting things done, and all represent accomplishments in themselves. Also, I don't think you would find some such as Patrick Leahy or Kerry or Kennedy supporting Obama if they didn't think he had what it takes to get things done.

John McCain...man of his word
and according to McCain if Obama tries to weasel out of the public financing of the general election he is a liar.

Gotta get back to work now, but will ck back for comments later

Kathy

"she got a terrific education and her dad was a blue collar guy with a mom at home"

Most of the current problems within the AA community today is that the above condition is extremely rare: A married couple where the man has a blue collar job good enough to allow for a stay at home mother. That was lower middle class then, but stable enough to send a talented daughter to get the education she deserved.

Now it is becoming extremely rare within the rest of the middle class where it now takes two incomes just to barely keep up with the style of living we took for granted 40+ years ago while more and more of the duties of parents are dumped on schools and children are warehoused in afterschool programs or become latchkey kids. If it is a one parent household, it is even worse.

Zumper - regarding another party - I've thought the same thing. The overwhelming Indie reg over the past few years tells you that. I wonder if the Indies will start to organize into a party.

perhaps we just need some good ole campaign and election reform and a no party system - that might be the best way.

that's too easy though...isn't it...and probably no fun.

BO is following the script of the movie The Canidate starring Robert Redford. He wins and at the end he goes into a room and asks his aids what do I do now!

Another McCain attack on Obama is based on his interpretaion of Obama's plan to "bomb" our friends in Pakistan without telling them first.

Right, expect class from Hillary supporters - like Obama supporter Maureen Dowd is showing today - in her best anti Clinton froth.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/20/opinion/20dowd.html?hp

daryl, I couldn't say.

those of you who are new to politics ......JFK probably would have ended up being a great president ......but due to his inexperience he almost got this country in a major war ,,,when in his first year he made a few major blunders especially the bay of pigs fiasco.....thank god he made the right decision on the missle crisis....as we know now we were with in a whisper of a nuclear war and maybe we wouldnt be here now ......thats how serious a presidential mistake can be ......saying change isnt goint to stop the american hatred thats built up in this world

Hey guys,

I'm still trying to figure out why Clinton didn't campaign harder in Wisconsin? As an Obama supporter, I thought he could be vulnerable in a hardscrabble, Midwestern state, but she made the curious decision to get to Texas and Ohio early. That would have made me mad if I were a Wisconsin resident. Beside my candidates' appeal, I think Clinton's campaign has been a disaster from the standpoint of creating a strategy after February 4th. It's like we're watching the internal squabbles show up in the election results. Anyone agree or disagree?

"If he has to at least wait until the end so they don't spend the whole evening discussing that."

Yea - those kinds of questions will be good time fillers but I agree - let her bang on him over policy.

by the way K.Graham Cracker, besides the nice name, i think i agree with you, it does seem that O should go w/public financing. Although, it's hard to know if the program is set up in such a way that they can both have enough coverage before the majority of American voters (ie, if there's enough money for that). Tough issue, but i tend to lean your way

Where did you find the Washington dem primary results for last night

You see Zumper and the rest,

I see Obama's Tactical Political moves as more "tradtional Primary campaign". Move to the left to pick up as many DEMS as possible.

Get the NOM and then move more center to pick up the rest....

But he's picking them up NOW.

I've been following him since the 2004. I'm telling you the Horse has not changed his color. He's PURPLE (to borrow).

While Obama has been very direct and honest about consistant about his beliefs, he was also been bipartison and a team player for the sake of the country.

He's got great managerial skills and he's not so arrogant that he things he can do it all. He inspires old and young to get involved again.

AND we all know we are at critical mass. One President can do it all.

The people are looking for someone who is going to gather ALL the best to get us out of the !@#$

We can parse and bray at the moon about whether Obama is ready.

BUT the real question you should be asking yourself is, are you ready to help us save ourselves, no matter what.

OBAMA or CLINTON can't do !@#$ from now on, if WE are fighting amongst ourselves. Simple as that.

Zumper - I actually consider myself pretty liberal but believe in centrist/moderate government for the very reasons you outline - too diverse a country-must govern from the position of compromise. I guess I'm really a centrist trying to hold onto the liberalism of my youth.

BS. This is about winning. Obama going with public financing is about as smart as letting your opponent sit in on your strategy sessions. Obama will out fundraise the Republicans ten times over, and just like Clinton did with Dole, McCain will effectively run out of money months before the general election.

Hey Wendy because one candidate's supporter doesn't know an answer to a newsman's question, The candidate's campaign is nothing. great critical thinking!. Vote for McCain if you like. Better suited.

If Obama turns out to be purple all the youth vote will be staying home in November

But it will be pretty hard to be purple with the most liberal voting record *in the Senate

*with apologies to Bernie Sanders

Hardison - your 10:15 post regarding Obama was a very good argument for him.

Until you got the the end...Kerry and Kennedy are supporting him for other reasons not because he's going to get things done.

But the rest of your argument was very good. You are a good advocate for him.

CORRECTION:

One President cannot do it all.

wendy
my point exactly indepent registration has gone up 200 percent ......sending a message that this is a centrist country.....as far a candidates ......with all the dirty politicing in the last 20 years ....a qualified candidate isnt going to run when his whole life will be investigated and torn to bits .....i personally think we need a person who is not onlyintelligent but a SOB when he or she has to be ....we will never find a perfect person but one with imperfections in personal life sometime helps in political life ....

Obama speaks at Reunion Arena in Dallas today...I think they are expecting 15,000 people there.

I believe Chelsea Clinton will be at University of Texas at Arlington and may draw a thousand or so students.

I haven't heard where Mr. or Mrs. Clinton will be today.

With regards to the money thing, if I were Obama, I would say it would be an insult to my thousands of contributors to refuse their money because I would be denying their ability to voice their opinions during the election season...

The mistake people make about feelings around the war in eyerack is that although everyone wants to get out now ...the feelings about going in the first place are not so unified.

A lot of people still feel if Shrub had done a better job in the first place it would still have been a good idea.
McCain is the face of doing a better job .

Marian Robinson, a secretary at Spiegel's catalog store.... MO mother was a working mother

Since McCain is the candidate of experience,

When will he adequately explain his experience with creating major financial problems for this country with is involvement as a member of the Keating Five?

must head to work...I hope....I hope....I hope this all works out.

Was there anything else on the Washington Ballot that would bring out over 500,000 dem voters, if not why would they come out and vote when they knew it did not count.

Well... Al-Sadr appears to be seriously rehearsing ending his cease fire.

This is not one of the cutesie pre-general election Bin Laden message releases which helped Bush win in 2004.

The American invasion created Al-Sadr: he was a minor offspring of major Shiite without a following, an identity or a nickel in his pocket. Western invasions of Islamic countries don't just inspire Al-Sadr's -- they make them out of dust, lead, blood and helpless rage.

Now that everyone is voting for their American Idol with their Numero Uno chants and pop star identities... Al-Sadr knows this country has resumed its traditional nature as The United States of Denial. NOTHING has been done to influence the political cesspool Bush created there. And now with the U.S. chanting and hoping... Al Sadr may be about to show us all actual change... and that change is not often a terribly hopeful event.

The supposed surge has taken a lot of money and sacrifice by the troops and the tax base. But it was given, for all the occasional articles about the maturing of the Army's anti-insurgency tactics, by Al-Sadr, lock, stock and cold gun barrel.

Change? Hope?

That's great for playing Lotto. You get a lot of hope for a little change. Until rising prices and job destruction reminds humanity of the place hope was given in Pandora's box of demons.

We got problems this election with the eventual nominees won't solve

It's a serious question of who'll worsen what. And it's not a matter of stark contrasts despite a lot of claims. It's a matter of whose arrogance will make the greater vortex for disaster.

The film probably won't win the Oscar but its title absolutely takes the Cassandra Prize-- There Will Be Blood.

I know when it comes to the Cassandra the Obamamites are much more into No Country For Old Men. Or Women. Or probably dogs.

Bear
The Keating Five argument is hard with McCain since he was the only one of the five not charged with anything except being Keatings pal.

"In February 1991, the Senate Ethics Committee found McCain and Glenn to be the least blameworthy of the five senators. (McCain and Glenn attended the meetings but did nothing else to influence the regulators.) McCain was guilty of nothing more than "poor judgment," the committee said, and declared his actions were not "improper nor attended with gross negligence." McCain considered the committee's judgment to be "full exoneration," and he contributed $112,000 (the amount raised for him by Keating) to the U.S. Treasury."
http://www.slate.com/id/1004633/

I could not disagree more. The youth vote -- and others who turned out to support Obama -- may be more pragmatic and less formulaic than their elders.

the whole youth appeal is that he is a different kind of politician that one that changes positions for elections.
The youth voices I have heard are not pragmatic at all but very idealistic and looking something very different from obama

No one in this world has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.
H. L. Mencken

Hardison

"He's been a civil rights attorney (3 years), a constitutional law professor at the well-respected Univ. of Chicago (11 years), a state Senator (8 years), a U.S. Senator (3 and 1/2 years), and a community organizer in Chicago's inner city areas (3 years).

You would think out of all that "experience" someone on the campaign could point to

(1)a major civil rights case that he handled (hmmm only 3 years - was he every the lead attorney?)

(2) Eleven years as a teacher. That's good, Some of his students must be in the work world by now. Any quotes or testimony to time in class, ability as a prof, encouragement in a career, mentoring? Anything?

(3) State Senator - 8 years. Sounds good. Any major pieces of legislation that he wrote that passed? Co sponsor on anything? Something other than just voting the party line?

(4) U.S. Senator - Attendance record after first year? Legislation again? Sponsorship, major floor speeches. There has to be something there?

(5) Community Organizer - Very good, tribute to his compassion - Children taken away from drugs or crime who are now successfully completing their educations? Buildings erected? Homes and neighborhoods cleaned up? Should be some concrete improvement that can be pointed to with pride? Was he really there or just standing by and watching while others did the work and he played cheerleader?

This man wants to be elected to what is probably one of the most important jobs on the planet. Please could we know how he performed on his previous employment history before we hire him for a new job?

At the risk of offending the Obama supporters here who have no sense of humor - aw, hell, I don't care - here's an unabridged dictionary of Obamacized words. Click on the circular arrow tothe right of Obama's picture below the text to see the words.

http://www.slate.com/id/2184502/

I think we will soon be seeing our war brought to the fore front. McC touched on it last night. This article explains, the depth and scope of the war ( more then just getting out of Iraq)....it is pretty interesting.

"The war against jihadism must be owned by both political parties. Thus one measure of any presidential candidate's seriousness is this: can he or she build a bipartisan coalition capable of sustaining the long-haul struggle required to defeat jihadist nihilism?"

http://www.newsweek.com/id/105583

dog's eye,

Thank you.

Uno has taken me out of my embarassing and all too revealing ignorance that beagles are really hounds. (So are basenjis which were the beagles of the Pharoahs.)

What a great doggy he is!

How's Craig's recuperation going?

Rezdog

He's not the only supporter that has done that - it is a pattern.

Even the candidate stammers and stutters over policy

Hardison here today is doing a better job of supporting Obama and making his case than he or any of his supporters does.

Hardison is making a good case on resume.

He did, however, begin running for President after only 1 year in the Senate - I have a problem with that. I know others disagree but I believe one does need some idea of how to get things done in Washington and I am suspicious of his quick run to the White House and don't believe he really has a grasp on how Washington works. I believe he's being propped up by the "old boys network" because they are afraid of a woman being in charge. I'm sorry Hardison - I know you think better of them but I don't think Kennedy does anything for the good of anyone but himself. Please don't make me go into detail about that.

As to his policies - for me they are thin and not well thought out. I disagree with him on his details more than I disagree with her. Universal Health Care is a big issue and I think mandates are a good thing not bad and I also agree that you have to start from a place of attempting to cover everyone for it to work. He is not sure or doesn't want to do that or whatever. FactCheck.org says he is misleading people when he says his plan covers everyone.

On a personal level he portrays himself as being better than the rest, different, above the fray - a new kind of politics. There is ample evidence that he is not. He lies about taking lobbyist and PAC money - I know Hillary takes lobbyist and PAC money but she's never claimed not to nor found it necessary to defend herself. He is misrepresenting himself. Personally, I don't have a problem with PACs as I believe they are groups of people like teaches and nurses who ban together to advocate for themselves and I don't have a problem with that. In fact Obama's campaign is a PAC - he's using his PAC to buy superdelegates.

I have to go to work now. But Hardison - I do like your posts and you are a very good advocate for Obama. I'm just not sold yet and I have been to his Web site and many many many others both pro and con and I just haven't bought into him.

I don't understand why Washington state had the dems vote last night when they already had their vote.

"Dems seem to have lost their Friggen minds."

Wendy -- keep in mind that the ones who are putting Obama in front are not the Democratic base. They are primarily indies, Reagan Republicans and people who never had any interest in politics until a preacher strolled into the room and saved them.

There was a better turn out of dems than Reps for a vote that did not count. Does not make any sense to me.

Jamie wrote:

"This man wants to be elected to what is probably one of the most important jobs on the planet. Please could we know how he performed on his previous employment history before we hire him for a new job?"

Damn you are good!

I have been amazed at how badly Sen. Clinton's campaign has been run. This does not give me any hope that she is ready, Day 1.

What if things change and she runs the table, will she then be ready for Day 1?

That Chris Matthews clip is destine to be a classic.

"I'm not sure that an anti-war Democrat can win," McGovern said in an interview. "We haven't proved that yet."

"Some people point to the fact that the war in Vietnam was dreadfully unpopular," he said, "but that when I came out for an immediate withdrawal, it helped me win the nomination but not the general election. And there may be some truth about that."
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0707/4848.html

there are more sexists than racists in this country and it goes way back ......fact : blacks were allowed to vote before women .......its really showing up in this campaign

Chris clip ranks up there with his convention dual one.

Keating 5 1989 - 18 years ago

McCain was not found to have done anything criminal, but he was criticized by the ethics committee for "questionable conduct." This has pretty much been put to rest with his work on the "McCain-Feingold" campaign finance reform. I doubt that dredging up an almost two decade old sort of scandal that has since been followed by active work on ethics policy would have much effect.

VADaryl

No there was nothing else on the ballot but the primary. I would like to view the raw vote tallies from the primary and the caucus.

9/11
I just mentioned that McC, brought up the war last night in his speech. He spoke along the sames lines as in the article I referenced.

I think it will be a major theme, that's all I was saying.....read the article then see if the campaign unfolds along those line.

Dog - Jamie's post was actually very good - put mine to shame. These are all very good points to bring up. Nothing low class about them. I'm being looked at currently by two different schools to maybe lead their Web Development teams ... I'm sure they are asking similar questions about my experience of my references - they want the right person for the job. I hope we would be asking tough questions of the candidates and of their references so that we can decide who is the right person for the most important job in the world.

Jamie - as usual - your post was right on target.

im a male and im embarrased by what im seeing in the biase against women .......i know now i wont see a qualified woman being elected president .......there is no rising star amongst women in the near future...so i may be dead and buried before one is ever elected

Not to put my head in the lion's mouth of Hillaryland but guys, it's over. She needs 65% of ALL delegates the rest of the way to beat him.

So one of two things can happen. She can stay in, and she and Bill and Mark Penn and the rest of the Clintonistas can throw every piece of garbage - most of it made up, blow way out of proportion or astoundingly hypocritical (often all three), or we can start working on beating John McCain.

Bottom line this election - now, as there are still three candidates who could conceivably be President - is about LEADERSHIP. Based upon the evidence, there are then three choices.

Senator Obama - clearly someone who can lead.
Senator Clinton - clearly someone who cannot.
Senator McCain - clearly someone who can lead...it's the DIRECTION he'd lead I have issues with.

Hillary Clinton's leadership style is to talk about herself and then boss people around. She couldn't lead a tumbleweed downhill with a tailwind.

Barack Obama's leadership style is...to lead. Together, we're going to go this way. I can't get there without you - none of us can - but it will be better in the future than it is now if we all row together.

This goes to getting laws passed. I just LOVE the YouTube clip being passed around. Let's ask a D from Texas who likes what he sees with Barack but couldn't spell his name six months ago what he did in the Illinois Senate in the late 90s.

Because I'll tell you - for example. He wrote and got a law passed so that all confessions in capital cases have to be videotaped or they get thrown out. In a state with serious death penalty process issues - and enough Republicans to block abolition of it - that ain't nothin'. That saves lives.

In the US Senate, there is now the Coburn-Obama law, putting all government procurement contracts up on the Internet so there is greater transparency on who's getting money for what. He got that done in a Republican Congress working with one of the most conservative R's in the Senate. That ain't nothin' either.

There's also the Lugar-Obama law, about getting control over the truly terrifying amount of nuclear material in the post-Soviet state(s). That ain't nothin' either.

And Senator Clinton - show me a bill that she wrote and got passed into law that doesn't have to do with 9/11 or naming a post office after someone.

I am sick and tired of this idea that Hillary Clinton has so much "experience." NAFTA? "Welfare reform?" The blank check resolution? Is that part of her experience, too - or just the parts where she likes how it turned out?

We have to start beating John McCain by questioning his judgment. Because we know - everyone knows or at least from his Navy/POW resume thinks they know - he can lead.

We have to beat him because he'd take us in ABSOLUTELY the wrong direction. A third Bush term.

Zumper: One of my friend's husbands says that men his age (late 30's) will never vote for a woman who reminds them of their mother. It's as simple as that. Something Freudian about it...men must reject closeness with their mothers in order to be men and they won't go back to the apron strings.

Zumper,

Interesting point you are making about sexism. To further bolster your argument...how odd is it that a Muslim country like Pakistan had a woman leader and not the US...

Wendy said,

"""He did, however, begin running for President after only 1 year in the Senate - I have a problem with that.""

If I have my memory properly in line,,,,,,

Ms Clinton moved to NY and became Senator with the Presidency in mind all the time.....

I don't have a problem with that! LOL

mr larry
and what direction is mr con artist goiing to take us .....be specific or are you like hin empty words

Here is an article on the caucus / primary disconnect - five times more voters in the primary.

http://www.tri-cityherald.com/942/story/95454.html

It amazes me that with virtually no encouragement to the voters, Hillary Clinton was only 16,000 votes short of Obama whose people have been on the ground pushing everyone to mail in primary ballots and go to the polls.

The straw count would be interesting to look at. I can understand a few people showing up to vote, people showed up on Super Tuesday at places that were having their vote the following week, but over 500,000 of them and it did not count. That was more than the Reps and their vote counted.

good point bear .....maybe we arent as democratic as people think

alpha, re: your question about why Hillary didn't campaign harder in WI? Simple - miscalculation. It was a boneheaded strategy.

Rez - it's not that one Obama supporter doesn't know what his policy positions are, it's that the response from just about any Obama supporter who has been asked by the media is I don't know - hope, change, something like that and hisother supporters, such as here, respond with "go to his website". The problem as I seeit is that Obama doesn't articulate those positions well enough that his supporters know what they are. It may be a smart strategy but with two edges - McCain is already beginning to exploit what positions he has stated. Frankly, I get the feeling that I know his positions on some things better than most of his supporters - but then again, I've gone to his website.

Bryan, don't be so arrogant as to speak for the mood of the country. You may be right for dems, and I think you are, but at least for the repugs, you are simply wrong - evidence? McCain is their nominee, not by a sliver, but by a tidal wave.

9/11, good to see you again. Hope you're doing well.

If I have my memory properly in line,,,,,,

Ms Clinton moved to NY and became Senator with the Presidency in mind all the time.....

I don't have a problem with that! LOL

the RFK model

Sheila - I'm really going to work now - I absolutely don't disagree with you on Clinton's Presidential ambitions - you are right.

that said...she didn't run in 2004 - she waited until she has some legislation and experience under her belt - she knew she's need to build her resume. Remember she was being pushed to run in 2004 - she waited.

In his rush to the White House...he forget to stop and get some experience under his belt. I'm not saying this because he stepped on Hillary's run. As I've said on several occasions - there are candidates I would vote for other than Hillary - at this point just not Obama.

OK

Now really leaving.

Looks like a lot of sour grapes winners here.
No gracious behavior at all.

you obama supporters dont have to worry about mac because a potted plant will beat the GOP in november...........so mr con artist will win if hes the nominee

"Barack Obama's leadership style is...to lead. "

Beg to differ Luxury...

Barack Obama's leadership style is...to preach. COME to me children and I shall heal this country. HEAL this world. CURE racism. CURE poverty. Follow me and Ye shall be Cleansed. Oh, yeah, and remember to genuflect in front of the tv as I am being sworn in.

I actually liked this guy before he started down this road.

Dog's Eye

I've already stated that the Clinton campaign has been very poorly run in comparison to the Obama campaign.

What is "not classy" about asking for some concrete information about a resume. Have you ever just strolled into a job interview and said, "Hire me to run things around here because I'm wonderful"?

You very well could be that wonderful, but don't you think you might have to back up your words with some evidence of previous success?

9/11!

Time to mix it up wtih us again? Welcome back!

i guess its easy to win primaries and caucuses when the media is campaining for you........the mystery is aftter all these wins and so called landslides he camt get 2025 delagates and is only ahead by 70.......imagine if he was scrutinised

BREAKING NEWS""""""""""""""OBAMA'S PERFECT

media promises to look for faults,,,so far cant find any

Zumper,

If I were an obamamaniac, the way I would answer your question about where the newbie would take us is to ask you where will the old war hawk take us?

Another 100 years in Iraq? Probable war with Iran?

If you look from a worst case perspective and figure Obama does the same things, at least for his one term I will have a president close to my age, whom I could torment and ridicule as a hyprocrite. I believe that he won't do and thus is still a more palatable option for me.

Jamie,

I forgot to tell you last night that I like the legs as well...lol!!!

When Clinton challenged Obama as "inexperienced", both the campaign and the comment were labeled as "racist".

When the Obamabots try to play the race card again in the general, it will only HELP the GOP.

bear

you have to stop harping on this war ....no matter how she voted the bushies were going to war .......but now that we are there we cant just pull out and make the mideast a powder keg ....it may take a few years (not 100) mccain will not win in nov no matter whos running against him....but to roll the dice on a con artist is crazy...i rather have the devil i know than the devil i dont know

9/11,

Great to see you again...thanks for the Animal Farm reference...you just made my day!

Be safe and stay healthy!

Hey Bear --

You're such a genuine writer in expression and in content.

Now... you GET healthy. Me, I'm in treatment for (I think) 11 of the last 14 months. My blood-brain barrier long ago surrendered itself to neurotoxicity.

YOU stay safe. YOU get healthy!

i didnt know bear has health issues whatever they are i wish you a speedy recovery and keep fighting for your beliefs

Zumper

Why would I stop harping on the war Zumper when you have candidates using it as a basis for their experience? They are extolling their virtues as being ready to be commander in chief...that sounds like a war management position to me.

I have friends who have fought and served there valiantly, even though their leaders sent them out underequipped to fight a poorly defined campaign.

Any person who studied any kind of history knew that the Middle East was a powder keg before our invasion. What we did is we lit the match and we dropped it into said powder keg. It didn't take much analysis to realize that as big of a scum bag Sadam was, he was the force that kept that keg away from the open match.

Don't they say that the enemy of my enemy is my friend? Why did we support Iraq in the Gulf Battle of the I's?

McCain is the con man for making it seem like it was a great idea to invade Iraq while we were still engaged in Afghanistan. If he was such a straight talker, why didn't he publicly rebuke the President for underwhelming the size of his invasion force.

Hi 9/11 Glad you are here. At some point the place will return to normal and we can get back to some of our more esoteric pleasures.

Speaking of which: Oscar broadcast on February 24. The official Oscar contest is located at:

http://predict.oscar.go.com/predict/frontpage?found=false

We could do an Oscar watch night if we hustle so that I can get the data base done for everyone who wants to play. Just fill out and save your ballot and email me a copy at

webthings at comcast dot net

bear
i agree with everything you said ....i also was against the war ....but with the bush lies and tactics he would have went to war no matter what ...he was planning it before 9/11.....thats why he fired the terror experts....i spent 4 years in the marines and was adamantly against the war ......everything you said is right on but to put a green person in the whitehouse is not the answer //////if he screws up in his 4 years where do we go from there ........McCains is a non factor he will not win in nov ....its the dems who will have to straighten this country out..................and i cant see a community organizer doing it.......this is a bad time for on the job training

dog's eye,

Congratulations on all your campaigning.

Talking's great. Listening's better. Sometimes too much gets said and too often. (Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.)

Your actions kind of outrank anything anyone can say.

That's really work. And really meaningful.

I can't say enough about all the people here who have gone to work.

Maybe one day people can write about the experiences they had in campaigning, etc.

Actually, I think Honor Thy Trailspotters Day/Week would be enjoyed by all here. (And worth learning from and preserving. It might even do some of that... what do they call it... healing thing 'round here.)

American Research Group, Inc.

February 20, 2008

Concerns over Economy Push
George W. Bush's Overall Job Approval to New Low

George W. Bush's overall job approval rating has dropped to a new low in American Research Group
polling as 78% of Americans say that the national economy is getting worse according to the latest survey from the American Research Group.

Among all Americans, 19% approve of the way Bush is handling his job as president and 77% disapprove. When it comes to Bush's handling of the economy, 14% approve and 79% disapprove.

http://americanresearchgroup.com/economy/ijy

"What is "not classy" about asking for some concrete information about a resume."

Having "no class" has replaced "racist" when one questions BO. "Ungracious" is coming up strong on the outside though. Could be a photo finish to determine the winner.

kgc,

My wtf moment of the morning was the AP header:

"Consumer prices up more than expected: January 0.4 percent rise due to food, energy, health care costs"

Just whose happy expectations on what planet were those?

Zumper,

I agree that this Clinton campaign has been horribly run. I am a huge Patriots fan and I could take solace in the fact that the Giants just outplayed my team. I don't know how they did it, but they were able to force the Patriots away from what they did best. Maybe it was the arrogance of the coaching staff, maybe they were just overrated. At least they fought hard and gave all of the credit to the Giants after the win.

I see some parallels with the Clinton campaign but I wonder if she will be able to give credit where it is due if she loses.

imo john mccain will have a very hard time exciting the base of the republican party ie the evangelical vote. without this vote george bush would not have won in 2000/2004. the evangelical vote once they find out about john and cindy past will be turned off and unless john and cindy openly discuss it and apologize for it.

the evangelical and many moral republicans wont vote for mccain. two areas that will come up and it did a month ago by ross perot is 1. john and cindy committing adultery then john leaving his crippled wife to marry the younger rich cindy. 2. cindy drug addiction which led her to steal drugs from a company she was involved with and john's intervention so that she didnt have to spend time in jail. a lot of folks are hammering obama but when this become front and center in the election campaign which it will, the republican base will be so turned off that rove attacks on obama will hardly make a dent.

read this article that details the attacks that john and cindy can expect to see. lastly, if i was cindy mccain and i escaped going to jail for stealing drugs i would also be very very really proud of my country!

http://www.usvetdsp.com/nov07/mccain_deceit.htm

Just whose happy expectations on what planet were those?

Posted by: 9/11 survivor (sort of) | February 20, 2008 12:00 PM

Planet Shrub it's replaced Pluto.
I used to think no way would Bloomberg get in..but now I think he could be the second candidate because there aren't going to be any Republicans left.

Well as a Canadian...The biggest problem U.S.A. has is B.O.

Just what the world needs...B.O.

Hillary Clinton and John Mcain have serious B.O. problems...

I can already tell the B.O. is getting stronger up here in Canada!

"They are extolling their virtues as being ready to be commander in chief...that sounds like a war management position to me. "

Bear -- didn't you hear Obama on tv today declaring that "As your Commander in Chief my job is to keep you safe." Then adding that he would not hesitate to strike at our enemies.....he's changing his rhetoric for the general. Probably not a bad idea given that contrary to what many believe, this is still a pretty bloodthirsty, fearful nation...

got to go ...............everyone have a nice day

Patsi,

You pose a great question. There is nothing wrong with asking that question. I was just having that discussion with some people in my office.

While he may not have the litany of successes in his past, at least Obama doesn't have a litany of failures either. The comparison has been made between O & W...W's past was littered with failed ventures and family ordered bailouts.

I concluded that my voting for Obama over either candidate will be more of a generational vote. He and I are close in age, we have similar interests and as such, I am more willing to give him a shot.

To use a video game reference, when the game you are playing is going badly, the proper move is to hit the reset button and start over. For me, Obama is the reset button. Maybe hitting the button will damage the game, I won't know until I do and the pluses outweigh the negatives for me.

Pasti, just noticed your above comment...

I haven't been watching any TV today...trying to contend with this sucky rate environment right now...

IF YOU ARE IN THE MARKET TO REFINANCE, YOUR BEST OPTION IS A 5/1 ARM..

If you have any questions, post you addy and I will give you my work email.

Just as the Republican Party is in turmoil the Democrats have the same problem. The winner of the primaries determines the direction of the party.
The Republicans have selected a centrist and the Democrats have chosen the left wing.

It is the job of the super delegates to keep the party from running off the rails.

The same line of attack might work in the general. At present, both sides are preaching to the converted to some extent.

The momentum of group psychology is a powerful thing, which exactly why everyone should be under a microscope now. Dems may come to regret it in the general when they discover another huge group of people who are not so enamored of their party's spokesmodel. It's called looking before you leap.

Graham Cracker, try to take another spin on it but get it correct. “Another McCain attack on Obama is based on his interpretaion of Obama's plan to "bomb" our friends in Pakistan without telling them first.“

He did not say he was going to bomb Paskistan. He said just what GWB or HRC would say or do: “If we know where Osama Bin Laden is and we approach Pakistan and they do nothing about it, I would go in to get him”. Now, it is no different than when BJ Clinton went after Bin Laden with missiles and did not get him and that was before 9/11. Wouldn’t you want Osama Bin Laden killed?

Just reporting what McCain said ..take it up with him.
And take it up with the media that reported it that way

The only answer is for the superdelegates to vote the way their districts voted. I don't care which one that helps, it's the only fair response. And we should all be made aware of who voted for what candidate, to keep them honest.

Pro-Clinton 527 Prepares For Ohio, PA and Texas

"Allies of Hillary Clinton plan an expensive, stealth campaign to buttress her standing in the must-win states of Ohio, Texas and Pennsylvania.

They're canvassing Clinton donors for pledges of up to $100,000 in the hope of raising at least $10M by the end of next week. The money will be placed in the account of a political committee organized under section 527 of the tax code."

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/02/proclinton_527_prepares_for_oh.php

You Hilliary Rodham Clinton supporters: Give it up on the “SOLUTIONS”. What has she actually done? At least Obama has his name on some bills that have passed. It was either Joe Kline or one of the other pundits who said this morning that “John Kennedy did not have much experience in the Senate and look what kind of president he was”. He brought hope from the ground up. It is about the people not about Obama or Hilliary Clinton. Obama at least gives us hope of change, but here we have BJ Clinton on the campaign telling people Obama is bringing us false hope. “We’re not going to do this or we’re not going to do that?” What the hell is that idiot talking about? Talk about tearing down someone’s hopes for the future. Michelle and Barak Obama both say they know it is not going to be easy, but at least they give us hope…something both Clinton’s now on defense are telling us we don’t and should never have.

What has she actually done except try to push a “failed” universal healthcare package when she wasn’t even president? She was “in Washington” and did not even show up for the FISA vote. Instead she flew off to Texas to campaign. Obama and McCain at least showed up to vote. She DID vote on every single thing that GWB brought to the table and then tries to say “well, it was for this and well it was for that”. Just as BJ has always told her, stay in the middle and straddle all you can because we want those middle votes. Well, this time the right nor even the middle will never vote for her especially if it is the general. If she can’t win a primary how can she win a general?

I hate Newsmax but at least they list her “accomplishments”!!!!!!

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/12/14/125142.shtml

Obama Worse Than Bush - Wants To Bomb Pakistan!rense.com — In a strikingly bold speech about terrorism Wednesday, Democratic presidential candidate Illinois Sen. Barack Obama called not only for a withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq, but a redeployment of troops into Afghanistan and even Pakistan, with or without the permission of Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf.
http://www.digg.com/2008_us_elections/Obama_Worse_Than_Bush_Wants_To_Bomb_Pakistan

The only thing that keeps me from assuming that any Republican is dead meat in the general is the 1972 election experience. I still remember a couple of nights before the election, watching Cronkite with a flow chart tracing Watergate right to the White House. My sister and I were ecstatic because we just KNEW the American public would flush Dick Nixon down the toilet. I predicted a blowout. Uh....it was a blowout all right.

Wendy:

I still think this is a much better song for the Obama campaign trial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unvr3mC_QJU

I also still owe you a response - and you will get one. But just for clarification, am I a man "who hate[s] strong women because it threatens [my] masculinity" or just an "avergage Clinton hater?"

I don't think either is accurate but I just want to be clear so I can figure out the voice you will give my response.

Oh forget it - I will just address both misconceptions...

Sheila:

"I've been following him since the 2004. I'm telling you the Horse has not changed his color. He's PURPLE (to borrow)."

I totally agree! His "new type of politics" was summed up eloquently in his 2004 Convention speech - and discussed at length in his book The Audacity of Hope.

What people need to start realizing is that "Change!" is not some campaign slogan cooked up on an ivory tower somewhere by a detached, pompous pundit like Mark Penn.

It is a well-thought out message that comes from listening to the complaints of Americans all over the freaking place...which REQUIRES the willingness and audacity to challenge conventional wisdom.

McCain claims Obama wants to Bomb Pakistan
By Connie from Mattoon, IL - Feb 20th, 2008 at 9:40 am EST

Last night John McCain accused Barack Obama of, among other things, having "once suggested bombing our ally, Pakistan."

On Wednesday's "Good Morning America" McCain slammed Obama, arguing he is better-suited to handling national security issues.

"Senator Obama wants to bomb Pakistan without talking to the Pakistanis, I think that's dangerous. So I think that that's an important factor, experience in judgement, and ready to serve, and no on-the-job-training."
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4311669&page=1

That;s the way it is being reported.

527

"ABC News has learned that a group of Democratic politicos have set up a new independent 527 organization called the American Leadership Project (ALP) with the express purpose of helping Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, beat Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, in Ohio, and possibly Texas and Pennsylvania as well. ...

... ... ALP has developed three ads aimed at pushing the idea that Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, is a talker and not a doer -- the ads are called “If speeches could solve problems" -- and they will contrast Obama and Clinton on issues of importance to middle class voters, such as the economy, health care, and the mortgage crisis."

http://www.taylormarsh.com/

I only wish I could post a link to yesterday's Columbus Dispatch. On the front page it shows an Obama rally and has a photo of these two white senior ladies holding Obama's book to sign and they are cheering. It is now in the archives and I can't paste a link unless someone else can. I'm a subscriber so can access the archives. Should have done it yesterday.

She is not getting all of the old white women votes. Some can see right through all of the Clinton's POSITIONS to hold power. They are almost as bad as Weathervane McCain.

It's enough of the Clintons and the Bushes. We need to move forward with the older ones having good support roles.

Clinton has always been seen as a good Senator. She needs to keep that job if she wants to bring change.

John R.
That website is slop.

Sounds like a lot of Swiftboating for Hilliary Rodham Clinton, something they seemed to abhor in the past but now it is serving their purpose. They are two-faced people. Guess I need to make another donation to MoveOn.org.

"This is a secret of getting out in the field; you learn and hear much more from the voters than you ever impart to them."

But, if you are only in the "field" of HRC supporters what makes you think you are going to hear anything other than support for them? Dah!!!

MAX, are the stories untrue? please let me hear ur defense of a man that leaves his crippled wife for a young rich girl to help finance his political career. please let me hear ur defense of cindy's drug addiction! i am waiting to hear ur response MAX....

jamie,

Swift as a razor, Sweeney Todd gets two DVD releases on April 1st -- film alone or film with many extra features.

I could only head in the direction of the Buntrock Sunday production.

Here are two links: one an interview with Buntrock, the other Brantley's piece about Buntrock's first version of it at London's new Menier Chocolate Factory theater.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/17/theater/17zino.html?scp=1&sq=Sam+Buntrock&st=nyt

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/28/theater/newsandfeatures/28bran.html?scp=3&sq=Sam+Buntrock&st=nyt

I have zero interest in McCain, what offends me is the crap written about Obama. This sight is obviously neocon nonsense. This stuff is what is destroying this country.

Cindy Mccain's Own Story
The Candidate's Wife On The Joy Of Adopting A Bangladeshi Orphan--And On The Pain Of Overcoming Drug Addiction
NEWSWEEK
Nov 15, 1999 Issue
http://www.newsweek.com/id/90186

9/11.....
so great to see you!....
I've been working hard lately and don't have time here at the moment to do much more than lurk and post occasionally.....

couldn't let it go by without acknowledging your presence.....

reading your posts has always been a welcomed pastime in my book.....

John R.

I don't think anyone needs to defend someone's PAST drug addiction by saying anything more than that they OVERCAME it.

I bet some politicians who haven't touched a drink in years (or maybe even decades) pop prescribed anti-depressants or anti-anxiety pills like their going out of style.

Anyways, I need to get back to work and make some reservations for my B-day dinner tonight. Time to "celll-le-brate good times . . . c'mon!"

This doesn't take long but some of you may surprise even yourself with your results.

http://www.votechooser.com/

Gordo

Taylor Marsh picked that up from the Politico Blog

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/American_Leadership_Project.html

You might want to read it in the original context as well as some additional articles

Foodies, enviros and Asian politico junkies... unite!

"How to Handle an Invasive Species? Eat it"

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/20/opinion/20grescoe.html?hp

RR,

I love your posts.

I'm working, too... in a funny, funny direction.

Dog and Warren, if u read my post above my point was the evangelical voters and moral republican will not vote for mccain. there is no way they will vote for a man that is a adulterer and someone who illegally intervened to stop his wife from having to answer for her crimes of stealing drugs. there is a difference of someone struggling with an addiction and someone stealing drugs, not sure u can equate the two. cindy stole drugs.

Dog wrote:

"Interviewing with an employer who refuses to acknowledge evidence of any of his accomplishments, or does not realize that the ground has shifted?"

I was listening to a TIME reporter on my way in (will post a link to the show Hear and Now when available later today) who has done a comprehensive story on Obama and one thing she pointed out is that he's been criticized in the Senate for not really taking a stand on tough issues - as he was also criticized for in Illinois. She said he gives the appearance of being more concerned about his political career than issues. Note I said appearance - she was not being critical at all - she was just telling it like she heard it - not whether she agreed or didn't.

You have to listen to the entire interview - I promise to post link - she was not negative about him at all and was simply answering questions and pointing out the strengths and weaknesses of his campaign and candidacy - as has been brought up here...she also pointed out what a good campaigner he is...etc etc. I thought it a fair look - not at all negative. I have to say I do prefer these pieces that seem to take a fair look w/o too much partisanship. These are the kinds of pieces that can help a person make up their mind about someone.

In the end...I still found little to grasp onto to reassure me that he is ready to be President. Many of my concerns about him remain.

do the crime pay the time which what Cindy McCain did

"In Arizona we have a system that allows first-time users like me to be able to go into treatment and do community service, and that's what I did."

Too bad the first Mrs.McCain doesn't agree with your version. You need to step away from the cheetos.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B02EFDF1439F934A15751C0A9669C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

Pogo wrote: "Dog, not sure I'd make that Apple/IBM analogy."

I thought so too about the analogy - the iPhone is turning out to be a minor disaster.

But I get your point Dog.

"Tom Buffenbarger president of the machinists' union (International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers) was the the latest in a string of Clinton junkyard dogs unleashed upon Obama.

But it was Obama supporters for whom Buffenbarger saved his most vitriolic contempt, and he proved that the Democratic Party’s coalition is nothing if not fragile. Channeling Howard Beale from the movie "Network," he yelled into the microphone, “Give me a break! I've got news for all the latte-drinking, Prius- driving, Birkenstock-wearing, trust fund babies crowding in to hear him speak! This guy won't last a round against the Republican attack machine. He's a poet, not a fighter."

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/02/20/684411.aspx

Bear wrote: "He and I are close in age, we have similar interests and as such, I am more willing to give him a shot."

The one thing I do appreciate is people's honesty on this list. Some folks ARE willing to admit when it doesn't come down to issues for them but rather personal affinity...I mean this with all sincerity - I think a lot of people try to make an argument for Obama out of thin air but when it comes down to it - maybe it is simply that he's 1) Not Hillary and/or 2) just more likeable and/or 3) a man.

Course GWB got elected because everyone wanted to have a bear with him. That's worked out well for the country.

Dog wrote "Were the primary results reversed, I would be congratulating Sen. Clinton on a campaign well run."

Dog - I have no doubt you would be - but not all the Obama supporters on this list would - I've said it before - it cuts both ways around here.

I'm not sure any of us should be lecturing anyone else on the list about class. For the most part, as one wades through the comments the conversation is usually pretty interesting, sometimes damn funny, and sometimes kind of cranky but overall very good.

My grandbaby has made the newspaper, even though the photo is at a distance. She is seen attending the Gee's Bend Quilting Exhibit in Louisville this weekend. (The Gee's Bend story on DVD is fabulous, by the way.)

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=B2&Date=20080218&C
ategory=NEWS01&ArtNo=802180802&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=8

Craig....
want to take a moment to tell you I heard a wonderful discussion this morning on the Diane Rehm Show about Machiavelli.... she does a monthly book club and this month it was a new translation of "The Prince".....

there were 3 Machiavelli scholars on the show..... it was a lively discussion and one of the interesting things they talked about was how The Prince was a treatise on government and politicians...... that it didn't hold up very well if someone tried to bring it down to how individuals should behave as some have tried to do in recent books.....

not saying I agree with that perspective..... I just found the conversation about it fascinating....

take care of your ankle..... and it will be nice to see your face on the tv again tonight.....

blueNdallas wrote: "The momentum of group psychology is a powerful thing, which exactly why everyone should be under a microscope now."

I'm glad you brought this up - here is an interesting article on this topic. This article is not about politics at all - doesn't mention McCain, Clinton or Obama - it's just an interesting study on what blueNdalls is commenting on.

http://www.zmescience.com/scientists-point-out-our-flock-mentality

The blog won't let me post the whole link....so if you want to see the picture --- and some of those wonderful historic quilts, you'd have to cut and paste the whole url.

Course GWB got elected because everyone wanted to have a bear with him. That's worked out well for the country.

Posted by: Wendy! | February 20, 2008 1:18 PM

I had no idea Shrub was a bear lover
http://www.bearcityweb.com/bear-info/about-bearcity.php

Shoot....don't waste your time. Now none of the url seems to work. And it did just minutes ago. Maybe the paper removed the exhibit.

Warren - 12:27 Youtube video - LMAO

Patsi,

You had a space in that link

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=B2&Date=20080218&Category=NEWS01&ArtNo=802180802&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr=8

Graham Cracker: Give us a credible site for God’s sake. Lord…Digg???? Another blog and actually slanted.

"If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will," Obama said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0132206420070801

Oh and BTW - no Warren - I consider you one of the Obama supporters that has a clue.

Sorry - that wasn't a clear group in my earlier post - but I think it is a minority of his supporters - at least from what I've seen.

I have to go back and read yesterday's post that you keep promising to respond to.

The Chris interview with the Obama backer made it right to Hilary's speech in NY this morning.

Warren wrote: "It is a well-thought out message that comes from listening to the complaints of Americans all over the freaking place"

Oh yea - now I remember - Obama's round tables on C-Span where he engages American's on a regular basis to talk about the direction of the country.

I did read about his coffees in the Senate where people came to chit chat - I heard their were a lot of lobbyist lurking around at these little chit chat sessions. I believe someone posted the article here a few days ago. Interesting read.

Still - I'm looking forward to the C-Span round tables where we can all be engaged in policy making and we all have a voice. Do you think they'll allow phone calls?

as usual Karolenna you don't read only post

On Wednesday's "Good Morning America" McCain slammed Obama, arguing he is better-suited to handling national security issues.

"Senator Obama wants to bomb Pakistan without talking to the Pakistanis, I think that's dangerous. So I think that that's an important factor, experience in judgement, and ready to serve, and no on-the-job-training."

I already posted the link to ABC once

Interesting quote about McCain

"For a candidate running on character and biography, it is also an awkward time to remember: Mr. McCain abandoned his wife, who had reared their three children while he was in Vietnamese prisons, and he then began his political career with the resources of his new wife's family."

It seems that spousal abandonment is a prerequisite to run for office in the GOP

my dear Kathy, u always make me smile :) we are looking for a good researcher for the obama campaign in the general, now that u are about to be unemployed working for billiary, u might want to consider jumping off the billiary titanic before it fully submerges.... just let me know my dear ;)

What is Obama's position on immigration.

Does he support amnesty for undocumented workers already here. Does he support the guest worker program.

Dear Cheeto man

If I were looking for work. I would rather starve.

Let's hear BO answer that tomorrow night during the debate.

We all need to know what BO's positions are. We do know he can preach very well.

Warren - is it really your bday? Happy bday - and best wishes.

There are enough video clips and printed information to go after McCain. I'm not worried about what he says about Obama because McCain has changed his stand on so many things it will be easy going after him. McCain can distort but there is always the video clip of the debate and what Obama actually said. Yes, there will be Swiftboaters, but then Hilliary and her people are already talking about using those same tactics they abhorred when it was used on Kerry. What can you expect when you have this slummy, scummy head of your campaign in Marc Penn. He's the kind who will sell oceanfront property in Kansas to a senior citizen from NY. That man stands for the worst in a human and yet they have him running their campaign. That should say enough.

Karolenna
What is Obama's position of immigration

KGC wrote: "I had no idea Shrub was a bear lover"

KGC ROFLMAO

I get the typo prize today

Bear should love that!

Of course I meant beer.

EuroTom, What part over the pond are you

Posted by: Ping Pong | February 20, 2008 7:34 AM

I am in Belgium... I lived 3 years in The Netherlands first.

my dear Kathy, ur stubborness and fiestiness give me goose bumps!!!!! come on and have a change of heart. dont take it so personal u picked a losing horse, we all do it once or twice in our lifetime, big deal, we all make mistakes. ur mistake is just a little more embarrassing. if u had only listen to me u could be on the winning team. my dear Kathy, i dont like to take no for an answer so after u settle down and accept the fact that billiary has lost, i hope u reconsider and then let me know u are ready to help. until then, i will dream and think about the possibility of us teaming together to make sure Obama is the next prez of the united states. YES WE CAN!!!!!

Sincerley,

the Cheeto Man ;)

Wendy

It was too funny to pass up!
I agree it was a great typo.

Craig (Crawford)

It's more than the argument you're making - and I think a lot of right wing talking heads and bloggers are beginning to realize this: McCain is channeling Carter - he's inexperienced, you need an experienced hand in this dangerous world, you dont know what he will do etc. etc.; Obama is channeling Reagan - change, hope, etc. etc. - we all know how that one turned out !!

I thought some of the people posting here were opposed to amnesty

But in exchange for accepting those penalties, we must allow undocumented immigrants to come out of the shadows and step on a path toward full participation in our society. In fact, I will not support any bill that does not provide this earned path to citizenship for the undocumented population--not just for humanitarian reasons; not just because these people, having broken the law, did so for the best of motives, to try and provide a better life for their children and their grandchildren; but also because this is the only practical way we can get a handle on the population that is within our borders right now
http://obama.senate.gov/speech/060403-floor_statement_3/

My vote chooser results...

1. Hillary Clinton
6 4
1. Barack Obama
6 4
2. Ron Paul
5 5
3. John McCain
3 7
4. Mike Huckabee
2 8

It's not what McCain is going to say about BO it will be what Hannity and his cronies are going to say. Watch what they are going to do with BO's wife statements yesterday. They are going to have a field day with that one all the way till November.

I caught about 5 minutes of Hannity's election coverage last night and even though he will bludgeon Obama, I can't help but think he likes him better than McCain and I find that peculiar...

I think many of the right wing talking heads are quietly impressed that a political neophyte could run a solid campaign against the vaunted Clinton machine.

I don't think Jamie is the only one opposing amnesty.

I oppose outright Amnesty as well

It's time for some of my fellow Dems to grow a set and stop being such wimps where the hate mongers of the right are concerned. Really folks it's time for a new mindset

Well that will be kind of hard since some of them are now your allies

bear, old friend, Hannity would perform public fellatio on anyone who can beat Hillary. It has been his mission (the beating Hillary part) this entire pres. election cycle. He will begin attempting to shred Obama as soon as Hillary is no longer in the race, despite his misgivings about McCain's conservative bonafides..

KGC

Obama actually has a fairly complete by topics mentioned in the Immigration article on his site. It's pretty lightweight on specifics, but you can draw your own conclusion.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/immigration/

I believe the best description of Obama's position on amnesty for illegal aliens in the US is a qualified yes - and for the most part I agree with him on the issue. I also believe that every thinking politician knows that is the only realistic option.

Gordo I think your post with the Tweety interview was interesting:

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/02/mccain-echoes-clintons-obama-a.html#comment-38249

The state Senator from Texas could not name any Obama accomplishments in his Senate record. In a strange way I felt sorry for the Senator because Tweety was being such an asshole. It proves the point that now he feels he has really "tanked" Senator Clinton's ambitions, he can now fire away at Senator Obama.

I've been giving a lot of thought to the Obama candidacy. To me, he seems like a Ronald Reagan candidate, but from the Democratic (center) left. (I add "center" because capitalist parties are in and of themselves centrists). Ronald Reagan was able to speak in folksy visionary themes that made the public feel good. President Carter tried to speak in intricate details about issues and the difficulties the American people faced. Few people were willing to listen to the fine points of issues, detail oriented discussions and solutions. They wanted to FEEL GOOD and the Reagan campaign was able to exploit that longing for a "great" America again. Away with the malaise, in with "morning time in America".

This time the tables are turned. After nearly 8 disastrous years under Republican "rule" and the fear-mongering over terrorism, the lies that got us into war, economic problems, civil liberties under attack, violence... you name it... after this period, the American people want to FEEL GOOD again. They want and need that "hope". Although both Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama would bring astonishing change to our country's image around the world, the investment in our people at home, not to mention ending this war debacle. I think Mrs. Clinton's detail oriented talking points and her oratory skills pale in comparison to Mr. Obama's overall theme of making America feel good again. He has the most oratory charisma I have seen since .. well, President Clinton.
Given this dynamic, it isn't surprising to me that Mrs. Clinton's supporters would be more detail oriented and knowledgeable of her legislative accomplishments and the supporters of Mr. Obama less so. Both sides HUNGER and burn for change... one side wanting details, details, details, and the other side accepting an overall theme that things will be great again.

The commonality between Clinton and Obama supporters is the aching desire to make significant change that will restore our country's commitments worldwide and even importantly to our own people. As I write this, I remain undecided what I will do if Mr. Obama gets the nomination (which frankly I think the Teamsters endorsement will be a BiG boost for him; not that he needed any).

I am a feminist. When I was 18 I made my first political donation at the Minnesota State Fair at a table for NOW in support of choice. When I received my Master's Degree in Public Adminstration, I, and my applications project partner, worked on an analysis of turning a private house, donated to a Tacoma Lutheran Church, into a second-stay domestic violence shelter. I have always seen women as being far more thoughtful and capable than the male patriarchy has ever been willing to accept. I am not anti-Obama; but I sure am pro-Hillary Clinton. To me she is the ultimate survivor, standing up to all the crap that has been tossed at her, including the humiliations she endured by her husband's "extracurricular activities." How she can be viewed as "divisive" is not something I can comprehend. When you read her book, you see a woman who is all American with the values that mainstream America espouses.

i know that for ethnic "minorities", the chance to finally sit in the most powerful office in the world is something they burn for. I know for women, the same is true. I come down on the side of women because men have always had the Presidency and, well maybe I am naive, but I think a little less testosterone could lead to a fairer, stronger, and wiser nation.

My god, this should be my blog entry :-)

sorry that was longer than I expected it to be... I was on a roll... :D

Heads up folks, I'm about to defend Obama. Advance warning given to avoid negative physical reactions due to shock.

When MSNBC gets off a bandwagon it's very interesting. The Michelle Obama remark you can hear on C-SPAN. says "really proud" obviously meaning that the joy of the successes of Obama made her joyous. There was no doubt what she meant.

The right wing has clipped out the word "really" which totally changes the meaning. This altered clip has been making the right wing rounds.

MSNBC just played the altered version and questioned an Obama surrogate about why Michelle wasn't proud of her country before now. In addition they keep playing the Cindy McCain remark, "I've ALWAYS been proud of my country">

They have now followed this with the looped Chris Matthews video of the demand for achievements from the Texas representative.

This is despicable. After months of non stop Clinton bashing, they finally seem to be using some of the same techniques on Obama, and it is just as rotten.

I gotta get over and write that blog article. When networks lie via slant, additions, omissions, or the just plain ignorance of their newswriters or on-air broadcast personnel, they fail in their responsibility to the American public.

jamie,

Well, the wonderful excluded middle strikes again...

http://obamatruth.org/

Some of what is coming now.

Here's something to note EuroTom. Minorities, particularly African Americans, had the same dilemma. Too often, on this board and in general society, there's the simplistic thought that African Americans will automatically rally around the black candidate. In fact, we as a group probably vet a black candidate longer than the white candidate. That's why a Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas, Alan Keyes, etc. candidacy would never, ever resonate with our community (although the Republicans are stupid enough to think it would). To the shock of many, blacks had the same conflicts. My wife is an all women's college grad, feminist and I the same. And when we'd listen to Hillary Clinton talk, we had the attitude that "we support Barack, but we'd be proud to have Hillary as the candidate too". That hasn't changed.

What did change was when Bill Clinton decided to systematically use the same old racial tricks in South Carolina. Many of you have NO idea what I'm talking about, mainly because you have no experience in the black community, other than the superficial. So you instantly wrote off the claims of racisms as being unfair. Believe me, Bill knew what he was doing, and Joe Scarborough accurately noted what he was doing. That was the point where most black voters turned. We went from 6 out of 10 for Barack to 9 out of 10. She lost the election right there, not because of one thing she said, but because of the politics of Bill.

To me, I think Barack is the best presidential candidate. But I'm a Democrat who enthusiastically campaigned for two candidates I was absolutely lukewarm about (John Kerry and Al Gore). So to hear all of these doom and gloomers talk about Hillary or nothing, that makes me think you're less of a Democrat than you thought.

Never lose the forest for the trees. Supreme Court, Health Care, Economy. Democrat.

Jamie

I posted the link to his Senate floor speech on the immigration bill. I have no problem with his position, I just find it curious that many who are ardent supporters when you get down to the details of his positions do not agree at all.

jamie,

Wolcott's on Cindy McCain/Michelle Obama in an insightful (and surprisingly humane) way:

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/blogs/wolcott

so alpha, you went to an all woman's college, as did your wife? Just kidding - I'm sure Bill regrets having made the JJ comment, I know I regret him having made it. Although it was literally true and JJ did not take it as a racist comment, at least not as to him, others who are in a different position than I took offense, and I understand why. Your last paragraph says it all for me- which is why I'll vote for Obama if it's his name on the November ballot.

Gore invented the internet
Kerry was a war loser
Bill Clinton is a racist

All inventions of the rightwing media
Anyone who repeats that crap can't complain when the media does the same thing to their candidates.

Quoting Morning Load to bolster claims against Bill Clinton --laugh of the day.

Musical lovers. warm up your recorders.

Sondheim's "Company" is on Great Performances tonight on PBS. Check local listings. It begins at 9:00p.m., Channel 9 in the Seattle market.

kc, yep we'll see stuff like that,and Michelle will be a problem for the campaign for a couple of reasons. I can't view the vids, so I'm inferring some of what they probably said from the text that was at the site, so if I got some of it wrong, just shoot me. No matter that it is Michelle who is the hospital administrator and not Barack. No matter that every large hospital has been accused of patient dumping (which under the regs refusing to accept a transfer is not dumping - it's a violation if the patient is currently experiencing an emergency condition that can be stabilized by the would-be receiving institution, but it's not dumping unless you already have the patient as one of yours) and routinely settle the allegations rather than spend hundreds of thousands of dollars defending each one, no matter that even non profit hospitals, particularly huge ones like the UCH system generate large-seeming operating margins (which can only be used by the hospital as opposed to being distributed to shareholders as in for profit systems). All these things are distractions from the issues that should be considered in the election season.

Jamie...thanks! I would have hated to lose that picture!

I don't think that Bill Clinton is a racist. And I don't think the Jesse Jackson comment was anything other than "he won the state" so black candidates have a record of winning in Democratic South Carolina primaries. Hey I was really for Jesse in both 1984 and 1988 and I was THRILLED to be an alternate delegate for him in '88. Jesse's vision of a "Rainbow Coalition" really motivated people to action. It is a pity that it didn't survive, though in Thurston County we launched a community newspaper called "WORKS IN PROGRESS" which I was very active in until I moved to Europe. So even if an organization dissipates, seeds of change are still planted.

I remain committed to Hillary.. what happens with the nomination will determine whom I support. Frankly I think Hillary is not going to carry this nomination. It isn't fatalist thinking, more like a impartial read of public perceptions of the two candidates and I cannot ignore the Teamsters endorsement of Barack Obama. If anyone wants to counter my thinking here, let me quote Ross Perot: "I'm all ears"... hmmm, is he still alive?

Can someone explain the Washington primary to me? They had two votes, one on the 9th and one on the 19th? The Democrats received delegates from the the first vote but not the second one? Why have two votes?

Pogo
You got the sense. You don't need to see the movie.

A big reason given for liking Obama is his authenticity.
All of these things eat away at that especially when they can appear to make a direct connection between events and money. (Even when none exists.)

the first was a caucus. the second was a primary. voters in the state of washington approved a "primary" system after Pat Robertson took Washington's republican delegates because caucuses tend to bring out the highly motivated "activists" as opposed to everyday voters. Both parties have had problems with the idea of a primary; there has been at least one court challenge. It seems now that the parties can accept the primary vote or have a traditional caucus system or both. The Repugs chose a 50%/50% caucus/primary decision for choosing delegates. The Dems reject the primary in its totality meaning that only people who caucused can have a say in the Presidential candidate preference.

It leaves me out because even though I am registered in Washington state, I live in Europe so my ballot was meaningless.

hope this helps.

That Obama Will site is both cute and clever. It is an example of political truthiness though.

It's already 12:32 here and he hasn't shown up yet with my

GOURMET EGGPLANT PARMESAM MEAL, WITH SALAD, ROLLS AND FRESH STRAWBERRIES AND CREAM FOR DESERT

Whoever thought up that one with its invitations to add to the list and links to the campaign knows how the internet works, something I am starting to suspect the Clinton folks may not be.

"What did change was when Bill Clinton decided to systematically use the same old racial tricks in South Carolina. Many of you have NO idea what I'm talking about, mainly because you have no experience in the black community, other than the superficial. So you instantly wrote off the claims of racisms as being unfair. Believe me, Bill knew what he was doing, and Joe Scarborough accurately noted what he was doing. "

Make me a list, alpha. And IN that list BE SURE you include the precise question that was asked Bill Clinton, so we know what he was responding to.

Then talk to me about Obama's referring to Hillary's tea parties.

This thing cuts both ways. Robert Johnston was the most offensive....and maybe that Julian Bond comment, although I'd almost rather cut out my tongue than criticize Julian Bond.

The Jesse Jackson comment was simply the cherry on top. Bill decided to use a number of things to categorize Barack as simply the "black" candidate from the first time Bill stepped on South Carolina soil. And that was unfortunate.

I think people don't understand racism. Racism is not something that you have to be 24-7, every day of your life, where you wear a white sheet on your head. Racism is a tool, an effective tool, that can be used when convenient. Awareness of how to use that tool, and the willingness to do so when needed, is the real crime. Bill isn't immune to that, no matter how many good works. In fact, one of the things that pissed off many African Americans is that Bill first turned into the archtype white liberal with the mindset "how dare you not vote for me, with as much as I did for you people" to "I'll show you how much power I have by marginalizing you." Again, I don't expect some of you to understand, and I don't say that with rancor. It's just the great divide between groups.

Tom thanks for the information. It was very helpful. I must say that I am impressed that by the fact that so many Democrats voted even though it did not count towards the delegates.

kc, he'll have to fight the money issue on use of campaign funds as well if he can't come to an acceptable agreement with McCain about public financing. That issue is already being floated by the MSM - first 2 articles on the editorial page of USAT today.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/usa_today_editorial/index.html

Sort of goes to your authenticity point if he reneges.

I'd do it Patsi, but what's the point? You're not going to get it and so why waste my time? I think we can ultimately quantify the results of Bill's actions (and surrogates) as proof that it boomeranged on the Clinton campaign. And again, I note that Hlllary didn't say anything I found objectionable. But as head of her campaign, she's ultimately responsible for the message. And she paid the price, particularly among black women who were truly torn.

EuroTom:

As the haze from the Obama-Clinton fight recedes a bit (and don't get excited - I am not about to quit fighting for Obama to seal up the nomination ASAP) - but reading the last sentence of your 3:34 post - is the first time I ever thought there MAY be something to Clinton's argument re: primaries/caucuses. Again, I think each one measures different things - so both have value.

Anyways, one of the reasons I don't think Hillary has a winning argument at this stage that the caucus system is unfair is that even if this is a legitimate argument - it is simply untimely.

Hillary, and Terry Mc. - one of her campaign chiefs and former DNC big-shot - should have know better than anyone the intricacies of the process they would face this year. And if they had any legitimate concerns - they should have gotten ahead of the issue instead of crying over spilt milk. (you think they could have guessed that Hillary would do good in MI and FL too - but the old inevitability argument made them complacent).

If she had made such arguments this right at the outset of the race - she could have rallied support in caucus states instead of getting her head handed to her over and over again.

OK - back to work - I am closing this page and will not open it back up till I do some work.

Thanks for the b-day wishes.

ET - in response to your 2:36 post:

Thank you.

Tom I have a question about to your remarks concerning the Super Delegates. First let me say I am registered as an Independent and favor neither party more than the other. I have always been told that the Democratic Party is the party of the people; but yet their candidate can be decided by a small number of people. Is it me or does this go against what the party is supposed to be about?

"I'd do it Patsi, but what's the point? You're not going to get it and so why waste my time? "

You don't know anything about what I do or do not "get" about the black community. By saying that, you try to create a bigger divide.

Hi all:

Here is the Hear and Now link

http://realserver.bu.edu:8080/ramgen/w/b/wbur/herenow/2008/02/hn_0220.rm

The Obama profile is insightful - for both BO supporters / fence sitters / Hillary supporters. The profile starts at about 5:00 min in - but the first 5 min is a good analysis of last night and what he'll have to deal with moving forward.

I say that Patsi because you want a tit for tat. And I'm not interested in that. I point something out and you'll point to something from Obama. And therefore, we're not listening and absorbing, but counterpunching. Plus, there's plenty on this blog said about this at the time that can reread if you're truly interested.

ET wrote: "And what is at play here that makes it different than in 1984? Thoughts?"

ET - the Internet

Posted by: alpha1906 | February 20, 2008 3:41 PM

I see your response is now everyone is a racist.but you and Joe Scarborough.

You use rightwing talking points when it suits your argument and then scream racist when people challenge your facts.

many ways -or- anyway

Mike, it's late in Belgium, and Tom may have decided to toodle off to slumber. I'll address that question about superdelegates - yes, it's antidemocratic, but so are caucuses and gerrymandered congressional districts IMHO, all of which come into play in the democratic nominating process. In the interest of full disclosure, I believe the only system that is fair is one that reflects one person, one vote and secret ballot, and we have the technology in the 21st century to hold elections that respect those principles. Unfortunately, we have to deal with all those issues because of shitty party leadership and both candidates are treating the first two issues as if they are selections at a cafeteria line and ignoring the third altogether. Hillary thinks caucuses are unfair (at least some folks in her camp do); Barack thinks superdelegates having their own power to vote however they want is unfair. I think the system has been niggled with so much it is not fair to any candidate, but hey, I don't get paid to think about the system, so who cares what I think, anyway?

Alpha,

"I don't expect some of you to understand, and I don't say that with rancor. It's just the great divide between groups."

I think what some of us are trying to say is that often the "reporting" of a comment is different from what actually happened, and can totally change the meaning of the comment. We feel it is reasonable to believe based on the information about context, that the intention behind Bill's statements about Obama were not racial at all.

A classic example of this is the misquoting the Michelle Obama statement leaving out both context and in many cases a descriptive word.

It is this "reporting" that should be questioned before an accusation is leveled.

Hi Craig,
So glad you will be on TV tonight. I sure am going to watch. Please address Mr Obama's comment that he not only "will change America, he know will change the world" This is very very scary. He thinks of himself as some kind of savior.
If he wins then his backers deserve what they get and this country will be the worse for it.
This man is scary!

Bill Clinton racist

Michelle Obama hates America

Al Gore earth tones

Teresa Heinz Kerry weird foreigner

Give truth to one lie. Give truth to all of them.

Alpha wrote:

"And therefore, we're not listening and absorbing, but counterpunching."

I was thinking about this as well. Warren and I always seem to get into these (even though I believe they're pretty friendly) and I thought what's the point - some of us are so entrenched.

Then I thought...what about the people that don't post and are just here sort of looking, reading, wondering, trying to get POVs, make up their minds. I thought - it doesn't hurt to do a little punch counter punch (although I'm not sure I like those words) to give the folks that aren't as entrenched and are just wondering something to think about on both sides. With 12 more primaries left to run, I'm sure there are still some fence sitters-as much as some on the list would like it to be over.

Sometimes I'm not sure we do our candidates any favors with regards to that silent audience (on both sides - and I admit I can be a shit too sometimes). But I do think people post some interesting articles, make interesting points, and are pretty good advocates for their candidate - and that could be interesting/helpful to the casual reader we never hear from.

Just a thought.

I just went to the website Karolenna suggested: http://www.votechooser.com/ and I did the survey... here are my totals:

Hillary Clinton

Democrat

AGREED ON: 7 DISAGREED ON: 3

Barack Obama

Democrat

AGREED ON: 7 DISAGREED ON: 3

Wow.... some "second choice"
Second Choice

John McCain

Republican

AGREED ON: 2 DISAGREED ON: 8

Since boxing is very similar to politics maybe HRC should rent out the original Rocky movie.

Mickey: [to HRCy, after round 1 with Obama] Keep hittin'em in the ribs ya see? Don't let that bastard breathe!

Or maybe a line from the Godfather since politics and organize crime have so many similarities:

HRC: No, no, no, not this time, Consigliary. No more meetin's, no more discussions, no more Obama tricks. You give them a message from I want Obama, if not it's all out war we go to the mattresses..

rightwing humor

Tony Blankley (a name that fits)

Hillary Clinton is the NY Senator born in Illinois
Barack Obama is the Illinois Senator born in a manger.

Pogo, Thanks for the information. I now understand it is the system and not just confusion on my part. I have to say not being involved with either party, this is the fist time I am really interested in both sides and have no idea who I will give my vote.

ET,
"Question: Isn't it true that the Super Delegates voted against frontrunner Gary Hart in 1984 giving the nomination to Walter Mondale?"

No. Mondale was the front runner. Super delegates just sealed the deal. And Monkey Business...

Wendy Thanks for the link

Democrats created the super-delegate system in 1982 to give certain party officials, based on the positions they hold, a greater voice in the nominating process. In 1984, they backed eventual nominee Walter Mondale over Gary Hart by wide margins
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-02-11-superdelegates_N.htm

Monkey Business occured in 1988
Photo of Donna Rice sitting on the knees of Gary Hart on the luxury yacht Monkey Business, the climactic image that ended Hart's first 1988 presidential ...

Pet Peeve Moment

This blog is very conversational. Whether we agree or disagree, we use a consistent identity so that others know the source of the comment and can associate it with past performances. In addition, many of us have taken the oportunity to meet others whenever that was possible.

Sometimes if someone is being silly, they will temporarily change their name to match a joke, video or comment, but this is rare and short term.

Whoever is changing their name every other post has the freedom to do so, but it is darn aggravating when you are really trying to understand another's position.

Decide who you want to be when you grow up.

It is 11:30 and I'm still sick, though feeling better... I can't think about a cogent response to the super-delegates. I want to just say that I enjoyed reading the comments today... much less animosity and more listening and thinking. I'd like to know more about 9/11 survivor since I don't know him/her.

I am off to bed...

P.S. no matter what, we will survive....

ET

I got Clinton/Obama as well but with 8 and 2.

Guess that "Dream Team" really looks good.

Jamie,

I gotta get over and write that blog article. When networks lie via slant, additions, omissions, or the just plain ignorance of their newswriters or on-air broadcast personnel, they fail in their responsibility to the American public.

Duh. Where have you been this is nothing new. Just for the moment they have diverted their attention to the D party. I'm sure you'll be just upset when they start tarnishing McCain, and playing short sound bites of his speeches and interviews that best suites their interest. And as for MO's speech, she said they same thing on 2 separate occasions. It was a prepared speech. You would think a Harvard Law graduate would know a better ear and be more savvy to what the MSM will hone in on.

Mondale had almost all of the 700 super delegates lined up before the primaries started.

Hart won sixteen state primaries and caucuses to Mondale's ten,. And was almost even in the popular vote.

Speaking of meeting each other - Obama Fiesta - June 7 in Puerto Rico - 63 delegates!

(where I believe we will be celebrating the end of the notion raised by [insert rival camp or least favorite network here] that there is a black/brown divide that will prevent Latinos from voting for Obama).

Si Se Puede!

Jamie - ET

They were tied for me as well - on this site and another site I did something similar.

I agree about the dream team but it's clear now it's just a dream. Just think a little over 2 weeks ago we thought it might be possible. Time flies.

KATHY, obamatruth... rofl is that the best u can come up with, now i thought u were a pretty lady, u sure sound like a man on that youtube video heheheh. well do not fear wait til u hear the youtube video i will put out on the adulteress and drug addict Cindy Mccain. when i finish it i will let u know. always remember if u throw a punch be ready to receive a punch!

Hart lost in 1984 because of Bob Beckle (sp) and the
Wendy's ad ..."where's the beef?"

Jamie,
Whoever is changing their name every other post has the freedom to do so, but it is darn aggravating when you are really trying to understand another's position.

Have you ever given it any consideration that maybe that is their goal. That is maybe you want to understand, and they could care less if you do or not.

OK Fry, I think I know sarcasm when I read it. I know I'll be writing letters to the editor complaining when JMc is not treated fairly by the media...not.

Craig,
Thanks for the welcome. I put my thick skin on as you suggested and post again. After posting the other night regarding my belief that Barack will not be the first African American President if elected but rather the first Bi-Racial American President I googled bi-racial persons. There I found information about the "one drop rule", laws that had been enacted in the states beginning in the early 1900's stating that if a person had just one drop of African blood they were considered black. I believe these laws have all been struck down. Don't know where I've been all these years but this was the first that I'd heard of these laws. Is it possible that the media, and Barack as well as he hasn't corrected the media, still subscribe to the "one drop rule" in theory and practice and that that is how they are justifying still claiming that if elected Barack would become the first African American Pres.? If Barack is willing to subscribe to this in his identification of himself as African American and is not correcting the media is he really for change or is he giving credence to bad laws that don't exist anymore and is therefore taking us backwards in our attempts to achieve racial equality among all peoples including those who are bi- or multi-racial? If themedia is comfortable with their identifying him as African American is it because they believe the American people of all races are still comfortable honoring the prejudicial laws of the past related to racial identity? Did Barack identify himself as bi-racial on the 2000 Census, on his applications for school, employment, etc. thereby acknowledging his true racial status? Admittedly there are issues of great import in the coming election, issues that race is not a factor in. However, after the past 7 years I am looking for a candidate who will be honest with us not just in what he or she will do to advance our country but also in telling us who they really are. I thought race was a given, given to you by both of your parents and all of your ancestors. It seems Barack has made race a choice, a choice only available to those who are of more than one race. Those of us who are of one race don't have that choice. My question is do ya'll think it is good for America to make race a choice when all people would not be able to participate in choosing their race? Would it be prejudicial to only allow a few to make that choice rather than all of us? Would the freedom of some, but not all, to choose one's race be considered an aspect of free speech? I don't find it to be an example of liberty and justice for all, as all of us do not have the liberty to choose our race. Why
is racial identity required on so many documents? Are we required to be honest in our answers on those documents? How about we stop using race as an identifier altogether? If we're not ready to do that, shouldn't we at least be honest about what our own personal race is, or races are? Barack, wherever you are, talk to me about why you are comfortable with everyone identifying you as African American and not as Bi-Racial which is the truth about who you are! Help me to understand your logic! Do you think my great- nephew should follow your example and disavow his white racial heritage in his identity? Would that be good for him, his family or for America?

McCain already gets unfair treatment by the media....unfair to the truth. They uncritically report his various position changes and never fail to call him anything but a straight talker.

Enough. Out into the gale.

pogo, Sarcasm. Qui? No no. I was only stating the obvious. First HRC, now Obama and family, sooner or later their attention will settle on McCain. To me it is just a no-brainer. But for now the MSM is turning their attention to Obama, and it is about time.

9/11 Survivor (sort of) is the Professor emeritus of this blog. He is one of the very early contributors to this blog who to quote somebody here "raised my IQ 20 points" every time he posted. Sorely missed when he is absent and greatly appreciated when he posts. (At least by me). Another sorely missed contributor is Colorado Bob who seems to be lost to the ages, although I am not sure. He was our resident raconteur and environmental advocate.

well..... I'm trying to keep up with all the posts.....

Warren.... Happy Birthday..... celebrate and have fun....

Bowman.... it was CBob who said that 9/11 raised his IQ 20 points every time he posted..... CBob was in a hospice due to cirrhosis of the liver..... he started posting on another site, but hasn't done so since Nov. 19th..... I don't know....but something tells me he may be gone.....

fry..... you must be laughing your butt off while reading all the fighting going on here...... can't say that I blame you....

...and gutsy, too ;)

Best laid plans.... and all that.

Robert Samuelson isn't buying Obama fever anymore.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/19/AR2008021902336.html?nav=hcmodule

Now I really am going out into the gale.

well..I guess gusty fits, too...as in, a rush of hot air blowin'...LOL!!! ;)

I miss C-bob and 9/11... I miss talking about everything under the sun... I miss the Apple Martinis and the fried baloney sandwiches... I miss thinking about how ppl were spending their days..

Big fan of Claire - even before she started supporting Obama.

McCaskill endorsed Obama because she owed her 2006 election to him

... Obama campaigned for McCaskill in Kansas City and St. Louis during her nip-and-tuck 2006 Senate race against Republican incumbent Jim ..Talent.

Also McCaskill made very anti Clinton statements in 2004.

Not so much courage and shrewd political deals.

i have been justified in getting out of the democrat party back in 1984 when they put mondale up for president ,,,,dems have a way of making complete asses out of themselves as history indicates.....starting with mcgovern (lost 49 states to nixen)....then carter (nice guy terrible pres) ....mondale (reagan landslide).......... then dukakus(bush landslide),,,,,,,,,,clinton (finally a winner thanks to perot)...........al gore (we all know that story)....then the wimp kerry(no balls) ,,,then they pick a left wing crazy ...howard dean to run the party......,,,and now a super con artist that has a cult left wing following .......like i said in the beginning ....im so glad i dont have to say im a democrat......i changet to independent in 1984.......and im so happy i did because i might have switched to republican party and that i dont want..

LOL @ MLRO backpeddlin' on Hardball

KGC:

Were Claire's statements anti-Clinton or anti-partisan?

KGC -- I don't think alpha is calling anyone racist. He's just calling anyone who isn't black ignorant about racism.

I am not up to speed on all the FISA stuff - but I think some one could take a legitimate stance that we should not go after the companies - when the real wrongdoer is the government. Especially, If the companies were strong-armed and did not get some benefit out of the deal.

Howard Dean a left wing crazy? hardly... just the first person to say the US has no business going into Iraq...

Headline: Dallas

Obama:

"2:09 PM CT "It's about having a debate with John McCain about who has the most experience in Washington or who can change Washington," he told thousands Wednesday at Reunion Arena in downtown Dallas."

"...some 15,000 people were expected at the noon rally in downtown Dallas."

http://www.dallasnews.com/

I had to work and wouldn't go near Reunion Arena under these circumstances in any case. Dallas just isn't New Hampshire, even considering the NH snow.

tt

dnd -- Of course, you may remember that I am no fan of Gary Hart, and that dates back to the McGovern campaign, as well as his arrogance when dealing with feminists in the ERA fight....

On NPR he did everything he could to make the audience think Mondale stole the nomination from him. All he could talk about was looking ahead, then he'd get started on how he WUZ robbed!

there are more sexists than racists in this country and it goes way back ......fact : blacks were allowed to vote before women .......its really showing up in this campaign..............im a male and im embarrased by what im seeing in the biase against women .......i know now i wont see a qualified woman being elected president .......there is no rising star amongst women in the near future...so i may be dead and buried before one is ever elected

"In his later years he only ate soft boiled eggs and cream of wheat."

So did my old grandpa. It had everything to do with his dentures and zip to do with politics.

John R-

A favor to ask- you constantly write to "Kathy" when I think you may be referring to Katherine Graham Cracker-

It is confusing- I go by "Kathy" here and do not think your comments are directed at me-
Could you please not include my name in your posts? Thank you.

Not at all, Patsi. Because I grew up with a mother and a sister, and have been married for nearly two decades, I would never assume that I know what it's like to be a woman. Any insights I have would be from the outside looking in. I can be cognizant of issues concerning women, and sympathetic to women's issues, but at no point do I have the right to dismiss complexities concerning women. So on that point, you may be completely correct that Obama's "tea party" statement was sexist. But at the same time, you can't expect as a non African American, to understand both the historical and cultural issues and nuances we are concerned with.

On the other hand, I find it absolutely hilarious that when it comes to this nexus of race and gender, often we find ourselves at the same place as one hundred years ago. White women suffragettes in the late 1800s and early 1900s often tried to exclude African American women on the basis of race. Sojourner Truth spoke on that many times. Susan B. Anthony was not in support of black women joining the movement. So to see this fight between primarily white women and African Americans today is a classic case of not remembering history and being doomed to repeat it.

Craig- a link for you- Just When you thought the corporate Media Couldn't Get Worse

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/20/7174/

http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/20/punditocracy-in-the-crossfire/

Zumper- "there are more sexists than racists in this country and it goes way back ......fact : blacks were allowed to vote before women"

Here a little slide show about voting rights. votedammit

http://www.righteousbabe.com/ani/votedammit/slideshow/index.asp

You have to click the little arrow key. Most here likely know this stuff, but it is interesting to see the historical photos and documents.

RR,,
fry..... you must be laughing your butt off while reading all the fighting going on here...... can't say that I blame you....

Well you know the D party has always reminded me of an Irish wake. Once they get past the fighting, drinking and story telling they then remember the reason they showed up. And so it is here. Once this HRC and Obama thing comes to a conclusion then all those nasty little things you said to one another will be set aside for another day and you'll direct your to the Rs, most like that will be McCain. But until that day comes along have to admit it is a laugh watching the HRC's forces do battle with the Obamaiacs. But I do want to see Hillary win her party's nomination.

"there are more sexists than racists in this country and it goes way back "

Zumper - If that's true, explain this. How many blacks are currently in the Senate? (1). How many women (16). How many blacks in history have been elected senator? (5). How many women (35).

I don't know, I think this country is at least as racist as it is sexist, maybe more.

dog,
"Yippee. A Craig sighting. Dan Abrams tonight at 9:00."

Isn't Stephanie Miller suppose to be on Abrams tonight too?

And there'll be a full lunar eclipse at that time.

Should be interesting...

Posted by: CraigsFan | February 20, 2008 6:55 PM

How many women in the US?
How many blacks in the US?

http://www.jannarden.com/journal.php

Good journal entry from Jann Arden. Scroll down to the part where she talks about the *Toxic people* in her life.

Corey, good what she says about "toxic people". I've already done that and continue to. If you don't say no, folks don't 'respect' ya.

tt

PENSACOLA, Fla. — The Air Force says two fighter jets and their pilots disappeared Wednesday during a training mission over the Gulf of Mexico.

Whatever they tell you is a lie. They were in the Bermuda Triangle and now Rod Serling is their host.

Lou Dobbs has a good question tonight, is the media bias to Hillary or Obama, so far I say they have gotten on the BO express.

What about the Superdelegates, should they vote with their gut or what the popular vote is? They were picked to go with their own feelings even though that might override the people's votes. Rules are Rules!!!

dog,
"In Virginia, appears it will be clear and cold and eclipse will be visible. Let's synchronize our bat watches...."

If Craig's wearing his Garcia tie, I fully expect him to break out in song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ_oWU2C1hw

The Electoral vote came into play in 2000 and the people's vote was overturned. Yah I know the supreme court got involved and there were other crazy things that happened, but just to compare that to the superdelegates, rules are rules. If we did not like it they had 8 years to change it, but they didn't.

Interesting take on media bias by the most anti Hillary person on the air. (Jay Severin) He says that the media would have counted Obama out after 1, 2 3, or more losses in a row, while giving Hillary press about firewalls, regrouping, triangulation... and never really counting her out after losing many contests, and suggesting that she is willing to persue this up to and including stealing delegates at the convention.

Not saying he is right but he says that even while they were slamming her they were keeping her alive rather than saying it is over. Me, I think that they were after her big time but, it is like torture, you don't want it to end too soon, or at least until you have a new victum lined up.

Mr. Obama, please step this way. We would like to speak to you,

For ratings they have to keep her in play until she quits. If they say it's over click goes the tv. American Idol is back on again, the writers strike is over.

Hannity is starting his attacks on BO on the radio this afternoon. He spent only a few minutes on Hillary and then unloaded on BO during his first hr. Bo folks watch out this guy is on the hunt.

CNN.com is carrying Hillary's rally in Hidalgo, TX

The press loves to go with the hot person at tghe time and then go with the underdog later.

NEW THREAD

So, alpha, does your brilliant understanding of the history of the women's movement continue up to the birth of the modern women's movement, when so many women who worked for the civil and anti-war movements were kicked to the curb? Do you have any idea how some of us felt when Stokley said, "The only position for women in the civil rights movement is prone." ??? Do you know when the modern women's movement was born?

Here is the REAL truth. Male abolitionists AND civil rights actvists considered women lackeys.

You want to call that truth a racist comment? The very fact that so many are afraid to even have the conversation we are having is what is both racist and sexist.

damn...McCain appears to be quite the "horndog", no?

NEW THREAD

john mccain once a adulterer always a adulterer.... this is just the beginning and it wont come from the left it will come from the conservative right, there is more to come about this woman and other women who will come forward!