Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

yay!

This race reminds me of how I used to run relays in high school track. I used to let my opponent run as hard as he could, as fast as he could, and then just snatch him on the back stretch. That's how I see Obama catching and passing Hillary. She lead all of the way and now the polls show him even nationally. This Tuesday will split and then Obama will pull away.

and apparently Obama is channeling Paul Wellstone...that can't hurt.

here's a link for that.

Obama Claims Wellstone’s Legacy

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/03/6821/

I came on this morning ready to yelp about "Obamamania" and the screaming fans of untalented rock stars, and then you went and used "Obamamania" in the article.

The only thing that is missing from those rallies is little teeny boppers with tears streaming down their face as they drool over their idol.

At some point would someone ask this man what he plans to do if he actually gets the job?

I promised myself I wasn't going to say anything more about this race, but Paul Wellstone was a hero of mine so I give you this quote to chew on.

From Common Dreams

“Obama’s deference to these boundaries was hammered home to me when our discussion touched on the late Senator Paul Wellstone. Obama said the progressive champion was “magnificent.” He also gently but dismissively labeled Wellstone as merely a “gadfly,” in a tone laced with contempt for the senator who, for instance, almost single-handedly prevented passage of the bankruptcy bill for years over the objections of both parties. This clarified Obama’s support for the Hamilton Project, an organization formed by Citigroup chair Robert Rubin and other Wall Street Democrats to fight back against growing populist outrage within the party. And I understood why Beltway publications and think tanks have heaped praise on Obama and want him to run for President. It’s because he has shown a rare ability to mix charisma and deference to the establishment.”

I repeat this line from the quote:

"He also gently but dismissively labeled Wellstone as merely a “gadfly,” in a tone laced with contempt for the senator "

Obama does "contempt" very well.

U. S. kills nine Iraqis including one child

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7225613.stm

Patsi, will you please give a link for that quote?

CBS Poll: Clinton, Obama Tied
The picture in the states voting on Super Tuesday is not nearly as close as the overall picture and offers some good news for Clinton. Among voters in those states, she leads Obama, 49 percent to 31 percent, with 16 percent still undecided.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/03/opinion/polls/main3783743.shtml

Good Morning.

I posted this on the last thread. Your either going to groan.... So get ready.

Excellent little piece of Snark By Marty Kaplan about Super Tues and worth the read.

"It Depends on What Meaning of "Win" Wins"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marty-kaplan/it-depends-on-what-meanin_b_84661.html

Join us for the all-important Chesapeake state primaries on February 12! Stay with us for the make-or-break Texas and Ohio primaries on March 4! It all comes down to Montana and South Dakota on June 3! Get ready for D-Day in Denver! The first brokered convention in over half a century! Brought to you by Clean Coal ® - America's Fun & Friendly Power Source

Colleen

Here's a whole page of the Obama quote. Take your pick.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS211US212&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=Wellstone+%22gadfly%22+Obama&spell=1

thanks, Jamie, I'll check it out, but I really do want the specific one Patsi quoted.

Renee,
Sorry about your Patriots.

So the young, inexperienced upstart, who nobody gave a chance, had a huge comeback in the 4th quarter to beat the seasoned experienced pro, who many thought was inevitable.

Was the SuperBowl a metaphor for the election?

That is the specific quote. It's just used in many many articles.

Also, NY Times "All You Need Is Hate"

http://fish.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/03/all-you-need-is-hate/index.html?ref=opinion

Colleen, that quote came from the letters section of the link you provided.

And just to make sure I post a negative quote about Hillary as well:

"Look, the only people for Hillary Clinton are the Democratic establishment and white women. The Democratic establishment -- it would be crazy for the Democratic Party to follow an establishment that's led it to defeat year after year. White women are a problem, that's, you know -- we all live with that."

-- NYT columnist Bill Kristol

A Bill Kristol quote is a reason NOT to vote for Hillary? You are a very funny lady. :)

When I hear that Obama is pulling up in the race I get that same uncomfortable feeling in the pit of my stomach that I had back in 2000. After that disastrous election I became a news addict. I get my news from a variety of sources since it is obvious that you just can’t trust the MSM. All you have to do is watch an event and then listen to how the media spins it. Fox News gets a lot of flack for misrepresenting the news but I see it everywhere especially during this election cycle. Even people I once trusted have let me down. What are their motives? I don’t know but I wish they would be specific if they have something they need to tell us.
It is the media, who have been labeled as liberal, who helped this president get into office and didn’t vet this war until it was way too late. They actually helped sell it. They didn’t even start really going after the president until his approval rating was in the dirt.
Obama says that Clinton voted for the war. Actually no one voted for us to go to war. They voted for authorization. At a time when we all needed to trust our president, most of us unfortunately did. It is certainly easier to criticize than to create. Obama had the safety of not having to make that choice at the time. He certainly didn’t take the same stand against the war when it came to funding it like Dennis and Ron Paul did. Look where their votes got them.
I have watched Hillary Clinton since Bill was elected president. I even wrote her in early 93 to express some of my concerns about the Health care system. I wrote her because I thought Bill would be way too busy to read a letter from a yahoo from way down south in La. Of course this yahoo has completed two MS degree programs in nursing and has been working in the health care industry for 36 years now. I was surprised that she personally wrote me back a handwritten note saying they would consider my ideas. Next thing you know she is working on healthcare.
I trust Hillary Clinton. As the first woman president I do not think she would dare let us down.
I appreciate that Obama has gotten the young people involved in politics. I wish they would have gotten involved a lot earlier when their brothers and sisters started dying in this war. I hope before they enroll in Obama college they do their homework and don't just listen to the sound bites.

Good morning

I am still wondering why BR won't give it up. He has always said from the beginning that endorsements do not sway voters...but, they do "mean" something to the candidates. Just like Edwards...what do they both know that we don't know? Or is the dem race too close to call and they will hop off the fence after Super, Duper FAT Tuesday.

Here's how different we are.

You can see a slight in Obama's quote.....I think,

and I see an indepth insight into his head and his senate offices. More a reason to like and trust him. I didn't see the quote as harmful at all.

I saw a piece from a jounralist that was sound and full of insight. Not slanting either way. I am also beginning to see Obama as having the same Charisma as Bill Clinton.

I don't find a slight from the quote because he didn't go into it further and "Gadfly" is so minor. He still said he was magnificent.

Thanks for the link.

So, is the Giant's victory parade tomorrow gonna have an impact on the NY primary?

This sure is exciting...I hope I am not searching online for a nose mitten on Wednesday morning.

My husband is voting for Hillary tomorrow...I am a registered Indie, but will be driving dems to the caucus locations. The repugs do not vote here until June, I believe.

Driving Ms. Demsy

Sheila,

It was the word 'contempt" that sold me. I've seen him look that way at others, almost as if they were a lower life form. Anyway, he's all yours. I don't have to worry about it until next Saturday.

Today's Savage Chicken

http://www.savagechickens.com/blog/2008/02/achieve-anything.html

BO stated before the New Hampshire primary that if he won New Hampshire, we would be looking at the next President of the United States?

Self fullfilling prophecy? Or was he a bit too cocky? I noticed that day he did saunter when he walked and he held his hand like Sammy Davis, Jr used to. I love Sammy Davis, Jr...he was one cool cat.

gadfly: In modern politics, gadfly is a demeaning term that is used to refer to folks who constantly complain about the political system just to hear themselves complain.

In local politics it is commonly used to describe the people who believe that they have to talk about every issue on an agenda. It is often used to describe those folks who constantly support the losing candidate.

jamie......No need to be concerned about Obama's plans. As one young supporter said, " He is THE MAN". What does that mean? I don't know. But it does illustrate the depth of many young/new voters.

Thanks for your take on it Jamie

also on der gadfly:
Gadfly" is a term for people who upset the status quo by posing upsetting or novel questions, or attempt to stimulate innovation by proving an irritant.

The term "gadfly" was used by Plato to describe Socrates' relationship of uncomfortable goad to the Athenian political scene, which he compared to a slow and dimwitted horse. The Christian bible also references the gadfly in terms of political influence. Specifically, the book of Jeremiah, chapter 46 verse 20. The term has been used to describe many politicians and social commentators.

During his defense when on trial for his life, Socrates, according to Plato's writings, pointed out that dissent, like the tiny (relative to the size of a horse) gadfly, was easy to swat, but the cost to society of silencing individuals who were irritating could be very high. "If you kill a man like me, you will injure yourselves more than you will injure me," because his role was that of a gadfly, "to sting people and whip them into a fury, all in the service of truth."
Wiki Pedia

I like the literal definition of Gadfly
1. any of various flies, as a stable fly or warble fly, that bite or annoy domestic animals.

Patsi, ha! You don't have to be"fair and balanced"!

I am not yet an Obamaniac. I'm still reeling from Edwards dropping out, and that was only after Kucinich was blackballed by corporate media. Any candidate who might eventually get my support has a lot of 'splainin' to do, Lucy.

Blond

Now there we agree. Sammy Davis Jr. was my all time favorite performer.

I wonder what the Gadfly on the wall in the Clinton/Richardson box heard?

so maybe Huckabee would be a ......godfly?

Jamie

I do miss him.

jamie remember that story you told about Sammy doing that fifties tv show where Kurt Vonnegut wrote the script? great story.

Sturgeone

ROTFLMFO -- Godfly!

Blonde wino,
"I wonder what the Gadfly on the wall in the Clinton/Richardson box heard?"

"Quit hoggin' the nachos..."

Or maybe Clinton told Richardson the Patriots had a "fairy tale" season ;-)

Blonde wino,
"I wonder what the Gadfly on the wall in the Clinton/Richardson box heard?"

"Hey Bill, Got a Big Mac For the Old Prez?" Oh Common....Hill's not around."

The more I read, the more I think ageism is playing a role in this campaign. The young people are drawn to Obama because he is young. What the hell good is that?

I do know that both Bills are cigar smokers...perhaps they smoked.

I while back I read some letters that were written by the teenage Hillary Clinton to an old friend. Even at that age she was very concerned about this country and politics. Now what was Obama doing as a teenager?

Or maybe Clinton told Richardson: "Hey Bill, wouldn't it be cool to have two co-vice presidents, both named 'Bill'?"

EuroTom

When I think BO, I fear the soylent green factories are not far behind.

Colleen: "I am not yet an Obamaniac. I'm still reeling from Edwards dropping out, and that was only after Kucinich was blackballed by corporate media."

Actually, although I am supporting Hillary, I am also still reeling over what the media did to Edwards. (And they REALLY ruined Kucinich. I was so pissed at Tim Russert asking that stupid UFO question that I could have puked. Actually, Kucinich answered it fine if you consider that a UFO simply means unidentified flying object. It doesn't necessarily mean space ship.)

And I really believe the corporate media systematically did Edwards campaign in...I liked hearing Edwards speak more than Hillary or Obama.

Patsi

I really think we will see Edwards in some role in the Presidency of either candidate. Oh, that just excites me to know that either one is going to be President!

EuroTom -- back a few threads ago you asked a question that appeared important to you. I set out to find an answer for you, spoke with someone who knew the person in question well. If you want to know about the conversation, email me at balecox at aol dot com.

Blond

Growing up in California at a time when there were no Paparazzi and movie stars were the people in front of you at the check out line, I've never been one for fandom. Some I like their work others I dont. Sammy was different. He was my birthday present every year that I was married because he did theater in the round about that time of year. He was the one whose appearance took me to Vegas. He was the one whose appearance on TV was a must watch, and he was the only one whose death made me cry. Somewhere along the line a man I had never actually met became a friend.

When I was a kid, I remember going to the drive in with my family and we saw this movie where this young guy becomes sort of a guru for the under 30 set. I can't remember much details, but somehow he becomes leader of the country and anyone over 30 is placed in these fenced camps. I remember him smushing a spider with his foot and I remember his mother yelling out because he even had her placed in a camp.

Does ANYONE know this movie???

ET

Oh and some creep named Fred Tellman or whatever was attacking the Clintons and the Dems and the "homosexual forces" This kind of comment burns my ass. It's one of the reasons that I left the USA. I got tired of people using gays as whipping posts to win elections. Demonizing people who are different is pretty pathetic. I wrote on the other page that Fred is probably part of the "love the sinner, hate the sin" brigade ("love" is used loosely here). I then wrote that I understood because I "love the bigot, hate the bigotry". Too bad Freddie didn't stick around to get called on his b.s. When you think about, people like him are the real enemies of freedom. The difference we have over WHICH candidate to support is almost not important when we see the religious right and ultra-right trying to take over this country.

Blond, Took me a bit to find it. - A blog article I wrote about the movie "Happy Feet"

http://jdurward.blogspot.com/2006/11/happy-feet.html

Karl Rove...................gagfly

Euro Tom

Wild In The Streets

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063808/

Hey I got a cool email from my friend Tresy (Walter is his real name) . Met him and his girlfriend/now wife in mid 80s at protests against Oliver North, young republicans and illegal war in Nicaragua. Tresy is a cool guy. He and his wife, an ex-prosecutor both moved permanently to Canada after the 2004 election, concluding that civil liberties, basic freedoms and human rights were being so destroyed by Bushcheneywolfowitzabramsetal.. He just sent me this reply regarding Curt's dislike on Clintons re: Nafta and WTO.

Tresy:

Tom:

Interesting question re NAFTA, WTO et al.: what is Obama's position on
these? i didn't see any mention of these in his Blueprint for Change.
I should go back and check. I bet it's not there.

You know what else is not there? Any mention of affirmative action.
Interesting, eh? Unions get two passing references. As a progressive
document, it's not that much different from Hillary's, near as I can
tell. And Hillary's position paper at least has a separate section on
Women's issues. Obama has zilch, save for a passing reference to Roe
v. Wade (he's for it).

Also, if Obama were the candidate of change, he could have showed it
with some leadership on the telecom amnesty bill. Instead he (and
Hillary, and to a lesser extent Edwards) had to be shamed into showing
up to support Chris Dodd and those trying to stop it. It was all very
half-hearted, yet the issue is practically an instant litmus test of
one's seriousness about reversing the lawlessness of the current
corpocracy. I really have very low expectations for him; if they are
exceeded, I'll be pleasantly surprised, but I until then I'm remaining
skeptical.

Tresy

There was a Obama ad that came on around halftime of the game. I thought FOX said no political ads during the broadcast. The other camps should be yelling about this one.

Any of you have doubts about corporate media agendas? Then research JW's "Lost Boys". I can not be more specific for a reason.

Jamie...sorry, had to fetch the papers and feed the birds.

I can tell what you write about SDJ is from the heart. He was and interesting human...and a black, Jewish man. All we hear of this election are Black Christian or Black Muslim men.

Jamie, awesome. I was 9 years old when I saw that movie .. and I remember not understanding but also being freaked about people being locked up like that.

I am going to look it up.

CHEERS,

ET

Jamie...I have happy feet this morning.

ET

I's real good when someone says, "Go Fetch". :-)

While many here criticize Obama as only having support of youth, almost all his supporters I know- including the ones driving nearly two hours to canvass this past weekend- are sixty plus.

I thought I would include an except from an email today from a good 67 yr old friend- who was strongly for Biden then Obama after Iowa:

"Spent two days canvassing in Springfield as part of a minimal canvassing effort. There were 10 canvassers out in East Springfield. 7 of them were from Cheshire Co.
Some observations:
There is the same large proportion of people who will make up their minds on Election Day as there were here. Hispanic voters were all for Barack and were his most enthusiastic supporters. There will be no problem turning out black Obama supporters...they are aglow with pride. Very few Hillary voters. 2 elderly whites who seemed to be voting race. A feisty middle-aged woman "He's cute but he needs about 10 years more seasoning." ...."He's the same age as JFK."....."If I'd been alive, I probably wouldn't have voted for him either"

I ran into the "Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim" amongst elderly black Christians. Rumor was easily dispelled. .

This was a low middle income area, primarily black with a sprinkling of whites and Hispanics. I think the turn out for Barack will be good but there are those nearly paralyzed undecideds. Everyone knows the election is important.

Contacted Obama campaign to get Massachusetts call #s. They promised they would send me 80. Joanne made 2,000 calls from Greenfield over the weekend."

Also, one of the first things that perked my ears towards Obama was Ted Sorensen"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hupgC1d-St8

From Kathy.

From San Francisco.

Not making the front pages, but interesting all the same because of her life long work for the poor and injustice.

Leader on a new journey

Editor - I have attempted throughout my life to give a voice to the voiceless, hope to the hopeless, encouragement to the discouraged, and options to the cynical and complacent. From Northern Ireland to Sarajevo to Latin America, I have sung and marched, engaged in civil disobedience, visited war zones, and broken bread with those who had little bread to break.

Through all those years, I chose not to engage in party politics. Though I was asked many times to endorse candidates at every level, I was never comfortable doing so. At this time, however, changing that posture feels like the responsible thing to do. If anyone can navigate the contaminated waters of Washington, lift up the poor, and appeal to the rich to share their wealth, it is Sen. Barack Obama. If anyone can bring light to the darkened corners of this nation and restore our positive influence in world affairs, it is Barack Obama. If anyone can begin the process of healing and bring unity to a country that has been divided for too long, it is Barack Obama. It is time to begin a new journey.

JOAN BAEZ

Menlo Park

I laugh when I read what i wrote about that movie. It's totally from my 9-year old memory... I was shocked when he killed the spider, and now I think the mother was really supportive of the son and he turned on her... I just remember thinking he was evil and I didn't want my grandma to have to go there. My Mom still had a year left I think. LOL

Oh kathy hi!

Question for the posters:

What if anything have you done for your candidate in this election? Curious about the link between blogging and action.

all these super liberal endorsements could be making it tough for Obama in the long run......

Hi kathy.

Between Monatary donations all year.....yep! One of those small givers.

I have become a pert of a neighborhood group. I also made 100 phone calls this last weekend in the state of California. I have done letters to the editor this last year. Door to door in my locale. just little things since I don't have too much time.

I have done blogs from Europe and tried to pass them along to friends in the USA and MySpace friends. I don't believe anymore in giving money to campaigns after reading how much money Bob Shrum, Tad Devine and the other consultant got for the losing Kerry campaign. They each got millions. That did it for me.

One more question for Jamie. Something else just popped in my head re: Wild in the Streets. Weren't the over 30 crowd required to wear some drab uniforms or something and wasn't Shelley Winters pulling on barbed wire at the end of the film, cutting her fingers in the process? Again, my memory of this is from when I was 9 years old.

My friend Curt has written an impressive piece called "This American Moment" I could forward it to anyone interested on behalf of Curt... eurotom at g mail dot com.

Cheers,

Tom

I'm more interested in seeing what the country is going to do in '08 than I am in pushing for the country to do one thing or another.......for instance, what good would pushing for Kucinich have done.......or Richardson.....it was a set up from the start

ET

I was telemarketed by Donations for Dems for Congress last week...I do agree with you about the Presidential campaigns, but I did pledge $$ to Congressional races. The house heads are totally forgotten this year.

Here's some Sammy for you!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khGC7MX0mX0

Corey

One for My Baby...fabulous. Too bad BO doesn't think the sixties were worth much.

RE: active campaigning

Donations, small though this year...not flush like when I had money to give Wellstone or Harold Ford. Doesn't sound like much, but I wear my Hillary Clinton jacket everywhere, and at first expected negatives. Only a few of those. (One red faced guy walked up to me in a restaurant and reminded me that people were coming to kill us.) But it always causes people to talk politics!

Did phone calls one day. Talking to party regulars who were on the fence. That made a difference because many knew I had been critical of Bill for his centrist policies, and in fact don't think Hillary is as liberal as I'd like. But in any talks I have had, I make it clear that I support the party's candidate, no matter who it is.

I got a robo-call yesterday from Denver Broncos wide receiver Rod Smith. Probably the greatest wide receiver in Broncos history. Most robo-calls you can tell from the start it's a robo-call, but this one was so conversational I almost started talking before I realized "why would Rod Smith be calling me?"

Oh, BTW, he wants me to caucus for Obama.

I was really cool for JFK......they shot him.
I was behind LBJ for his civil rights work.......then he threatened to send me to the jungles and kill people
I hated Nixon with a passion somewhat akin to that of Hunter Thompson
I voted for Jimmy Carter, but they all turned on him and he just couldnt get it done, and Ted Kennedy finished him off.
Reagan? Alzheimered Actor ? no thanks
Bush 1? Oy.
Clinton......I got absorbed again....it looked good for a change.......and then they found out about the blowjob and another one bites the dust......
And then Al Gore............I got up briefly with Howard dean, but then he screamed and they handed us Kerry. Ho hum.

And just when I thought it could hardly get any worse.....Bush and Cheney........

Now? It's a test. Where will this country go from here........

I can speak for Dog since she is not here.

Dog is active on the Obama campaign moving from state to state. She was in SC and now is in Delaware. She is active in the Arlington VA Obama Headquarters.

Hey Craig...how come some of us have that head and shoulders with a balloon next to our nik names? May I get mine changed to a wine glass?

Did you get my email with my snail mail address for the book plates? I know you are hugely busy and we haven't heard how the leg is doing?

How did a Obama ad appear on the superbowl based on the following:

The reasons: The show is sold out and equal opportunities couldn't be provided to all candidates, even if some additional time could be found for one to buy in.

Fox is saying it will comply with Federal Communications Commission rules.

"We comply with all legal requirements when it comes to selling time to candidates, including any requirements that might apply to a unique broadcast like the Super Bowl," the network said.

Sources close to the situation said that because ad time in the Super Bowl is essentially sold out, Fox will choose to not sell time to a candidate, citing an FCC ruling that a network can reasonably refuse to sell political time in "unique, one-time-only" broadcasts where equal ad time can't be offered to all candidates.

vadaryl,

It seem unequal, but Clinton has made a great move herself. She is having a town meeting on the Hallmark Channel tonight?

Great move and so your complaint is what? 30Seconds versus 1 or 2 hours.....sounds like the Clinton Campaign had a great idea and it will probably work.

Obama was binging on the Males, or which he is weak.

From one of your hit & runners to Imus fans
Sunday NY Times week in review article about Imus'
return., which may be of interest.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/03/weekinreview/03steinberg.html?_r=1&ref=weekinreview&oref=slogin

As far as politics, here in Fairfield County, CT, Hillary
will be at Yale to an invited group only & Obama to have
an open rally in Hartford

TV ad wars here Obama has been on the air for at
least two weeks, Hillary started just last week & his ads
here outnumber hers about 3 to 1.

Not one piece of mail nor any phone calls from either
& my home contains only registered democrats.

Correction;

Obama was pinging on males for which he is weak.

All the other candidates should be upset over the ad based on what was said

Pushed for RFK, Eugene McCarthy, and Geo. McGovern........nada but landslides for the other guy......
The only way Clinton won in the first place was Ross Perot decided to skewer Bush 1.......this politics game for the leaders of our nation is screwed. One more chance. We'll see how it goes.

vadaryl,

just politics. It wasn't a hate add. I was an inspirational one. Very strong on to the point thought, but not the beat all end all.

Not his best by far and I'm a supporter. I thought he could have done better.

Corey,

Thank you for the clip. The movie he is talking about with Fred Astaire is a wonderful old B/W "The Sky's The Limit".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_for_My_Baby_(and_One_More_for_the_Road)

The Bills watched the game at a private residence in Red RIver, New Mexico. MO is visiting Las Cruces today near NMSU. None of this info was in the Las Cruces Scum News, but found in El Paso Times.

Blonde......how about the old Desert Sun night club....is that still there? (in cruces)

I am surprised that FOX ran a DEM ad to begin with, but based on what the rules where how did one candidate get there ad aired.

there's Obama Rolls? with jelly and butter? I want two please.

yo soy Horsedooty!

Looking forward to Super, Duper FAT Tuesday eve...the talking heads should be fun this evening.

I will be munching on celery (it's good for keeping the blood pressure down)...I am sure I will be close to boiling. Popping my cork, so to speak.

See ya later.

vadaryl

From a comment this morning , my understanding on the Obama ad: He did an end run around the network by buy ad time on individual affiliates. Sneaky but legit. Time is alotted to the local stations for commercial sales and where that wasn't sold out, Obama made a buy.

Fox is pushing for Obama? Hmmmmm........food for thought.

I agree the Hallmark thing is a good move. If you have the money go for it. There is no rules preventing a candidate from doing anything today. There was one yesterday. That is what I am complaining about

Sturgeone

Fox has been doing a virtually unending push for Obama and saying anything nasty they can think of about Clinton.

Sounds pretty much like MSNBC only nastier adjectives.

I did not like the rule to begin with. I thought all the candidate should of been able to have an ad on if they could afford it

Jamie........aye..........

I guess FOX Noise is all caught up in the hype so down the road they can go in for the kill

Sturgeone...no Desert Sun is no longer in business.

I really have to run.

If you want to compare Liberal voting records

http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib.htm?o1=lib_composite&o2=desc#vr

Just to give you an overall idea

Kennedy is a 93.7

Obama is an overall 86.0

This is made up of: Economic 87; Social 77; Foreign 85

Clinton is overall 70.2

This is made up of Economic 63; Social 80/ Foreign 62

She is more of a social liberal than he is, but much more conservative on Economic and Foreign Relation issues.

If any other candidate chose not to run an ad then it's fine. Does anybody know what happened in this case

mornin' all.

Our primary isn't until May - I've done nothing for Hillary in the POTUS race. I've donated and bent a lot of ears to try and get a friend elected Circuit Judge and get rid of one of the 3 judges here - the one who was a poor lawyer and is not any better as a judge.

Congrats to Eli and the Giants - I'm just glad I don't bet on football., or politics for that matter.

Well, seems like the Dem race has gotten as tight as Dick's hatband, and god help us, McCain seems to be riding his newfound momentum to a slight edge, statistically insignificant, against either Dem. I do not like the way this is shaping up.

I thought it was a network ad, but if it was a local one then he pulled off a good one. Interesting the rest did not try that.

VaDaryl

The way the network ads work is that there are contract negotiations with various national advertisers. They negotiate for time slots and programs on an annual basis. The Super Bowl is the single most expensive slot in the year and the time is usually sold out way in advance which is why commercial time has been pushed into the warm up and wrap up shows to get that captive audience.
The Network really, really doesn't want to sell to political candidates that would supplant any of those network buys and by law they can't say no to one without saying no to all.

Obama just found a way to buy time by doing it on a station by station basis in chosen markets. Now if any of those individual stations refused time to another candidate but ran the Obama commercial, they could be in trouble.

How many stations ran the ad?

Sturg,
"Fox is pushing for Obama? Hmmmmm........food for thought."

And Hannity and Coulter for Clinton. Time to put on the tinfoil hat.

You don't have to worry until Fox supports the Sturg '08 ticket.

Interesting only one candidate ran an ad that I heard of. Mitt has plenty of money to spend. It just seems fishey to me

Memo To Pundits: New Poll Finds That Number Of Dems Who Like Idea Of Bill Back In White House Hasn't Budged
Sixty eight percent -- exactly the same percentage that answered this way back in October of 2007. The number of Dems who said they "dislike" this idea is now at 12% -- a statistically insignificant two points higher than October 2007. The poll also finds that Bill's "favorability rating also has not slipped from where it stood in late December
Even more interesting, despite the roar of commentary denouncing Bill for playing the race card, the poll also finds that Bill's favorability rating among blacks has remained stable
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/horsesmouth/

Pogo -- about the game....I tuned back and forth to it and it looked pretty good. I didn't have a dog in that fight though since the Broncos or the Chiefs weren't there....

But I couldn't stop myself from rooting a little for the underdog...I miss the good old days when my son and his football team gathered at our house for those big games. On one huge play they started jumping up and down so hard that a large framed watercolor fell off the wall and busted glass all over the floor....

Look at the exit polls in FL, no matter how you hide it race will be an issue tomorrow. But Bill takes all the heat.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080204/ap_on_el_pr/obama_super_bowl

Obama runs ad during Super Bowl

Obama, neck and neck with Hillary Rodham Clinton heading into Tuesday's nominating contests, aired ads during the Super Bowl in television markets serving 24 states that are in play on Super Tuesday and beyond.

Thanks for the url about the ad. Case closed

So Sorry RR
I recommend a good sulk
At least in football there is always next year.

Politics not so much. A mistake this time around will be not so easy to correct.

I don't think Obama practices "new politics" at all.
It's the same old same old and in some cases much worse.

It is hard to overcome a the bandwagon effect.
Obama fans should remember in the general Tweety et al will be swooning over Johnny Mac not Obama .

Pogo it's early daze. If the youth issue is as important as it has seemed so far, I doubt McCain will do so well in that dynamic. Assuming Hillary wins, it could be Clinton/Obama and if Obama wins it could be Obama/Clinton. I don't think that McCain/Romney or McCain/Hukabee would be a great sell. Maybe Ruuds wants the job.

Sheils, darling, with all due respect- 30 seconds broadcast to 100 million viewers during the Superbowl is likely to have more impact than 1-2 hours broadcast to 250 people on the Hallmark channel.

Fox is in full Clinton hate mode- my take is that it is for two reasons- the first is that the entire Fox management and talent lineup hates Bill, and since Hillary is married to him they hate her too.The second reason is probably that no matter what the polls say, they thinkany Rep candidate can beat Hillary in Nov. All that said, I couldn't care less what Fox thinks - I won't even watch GretaVan Susteran anymore, and I used to love her show.

that Bill's favorability rating among blacks has remained stable

remained stable at 79%.
remained stable at 79%.

FOX Fair and Balanced, Right!!!!

We Report you Decide. Interesting

Having PC problems.

It would seem to me if FOx thinks any REP could beat Hillary then they would try to build her up.

No way would they want to build her up after years of beating her down. Hannity saying anything nice about her. No way!

Pogo Dawling.

I don't know about that. You thinkin like a man and I'm thinkin like a woman. The numbers for women could and will probably impact Clinton in a possitive way.

Obama for 30 secs in front of people while drinking.......well, I don't know about you, but the BUD commercials were more fun!

Hannity is chopping at the bit to tare into Obama

EuroTom

A Clinton/Obama ticket would make some sense as it would look towards a 16 year control of the White House. Because of age and position within the Senate, an Obama/Clinton ticket would not be a good idea.

I hate to see what Hannity is going to come up with against Obama. He's got nothing left on Hillary. He's working McCain pretty good.

The United States presidential election of 1972 was waged on the issues of radicalism and the Vietnam War.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_1972

Hey Rebel Renee
I hope you were able to drown your sorrows in a nice old vine zin.

that would be nice a 16 year run. What would Hannity do then?

If Bush and he messed up crew would of handled the war correctly would this Yes/No vote even be an issue

Isn't Maya Angelou supporting Hillary? I would put her endorsement up against Oprah's anytime.

HRC got the endorsement this weekend of the Chief of the Cherokee Nation....which is huge in Oklahoma and states that have a large Cherokee population...

My new motto: Don't trust anyone UNDER 30.

My new motto: Don't trust anyone UNDER 30.

dnd, if Hannity says he's for Clinton he is bullshitting - I heard him giving Coulter hell Friday over saying she would support Clinton instead of McCain because she is a bigger conservative than McCain - he assured her he would convince her not to support Clinton. Hannity was in full delusion and denial modes.

ET, yep, it's early and the Dem candidate is still up in the air - and McCain is not as appealing a candidate IMHO as the McCainiacs seem to think.

Patsi, I did watch most of the game - kudos to the Giants'defense for pressuring the crap out of Brady. I thought it was a good game, although low scoring, and didn't really care all that much who won. I did think the ads were a cut above this year.

Gordo - Bill's support among democrats is the same more or less as it was in the fall, but his suport overall is less. I actually find this hard to believe since repucblicans have been in high Clinton hate since '93. I suppose the negative coverageof him has lost him some support among indies.

No Country for Majesties

There are no majesties in America. No Kings. No Queens. No Potentates. So people who talk about how much we owe Bill Clinton fail to understand that the only people who "must" vote for Hillary Clinton because of Bill Clinton are those who owe him political family favors.

On one hand are people like John Lewis who cited his long relationship with Bill Clinton as the chief factor in his backing Hillary Clinton. Or entrenched political figures like Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid flexing muscle in Nevada, and David Dinkins and Charlie Rangel pulling straws in New York. Everyone else, however, is fair game. Yet with the former camp trading bulk constituencies and talking about "feeding mouths" versus "feeding emotion", some may wonder how Barack Obama has managed to lead Hillary Clinton in the delegate count.

It is because the folks who put the Establishment in power have reasoned differently. Having inherited her candidacy from a political dynasty, Hillary Clinton is less convincing when she rests her argument for further power on experience. People understand that by voting for Hillary because of Bill, we risk replicating the same dysfunctional system that needs change -- a system that is gridlocked because political predators are fighting over scarce capital. They understand that another Clinton presidency and "change" are contradictory terms. Indeed, Clintons’ switch to the change band wagon after the Iowa Caucus was a not-so-subtle maneuver that, like the experience argument, quickly wears thin. She won the Nevada caucus but Senator Obama won more delegates. In other words, she won with entrenched political machines but lost with the people.

People choose Obama for a number of reasons. First, we know the Obama name in the first instance due to his electoral experience. Obama has served for 11 years as an elected official – 8 years in the Illinois Legislature and 3 years in the US Senate. His record – whether concerning healthcare, crime or civil rights – is rather weighty. His current call for universal health care by 2012 can be linked to one of the 832 bills he sponsored as a State Senator - a proposed amendment to the Illinois Constitution to establish a legal right to universal health care coverage and a passed 2003 law to extend health care coverage to low-income individuals in Illinois. Concerning crime and civil rights, State Senator Obama both won the unanimous endorsement of the police and got officers to support racial profiling studies and legislation mandating police videotape interrogations of criminal suspects.

The second reason is a quite calculated bet that principled and honest leadership will lead to an effective mandate. Back in 2002, Obama opposed the Iraqi war at its outset, calling it "an ill-conceived venture which would require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undermined cost, with undetermined consequences." Call correct. In January 2007, he introduced the Iraqi War De-Escalation Act, a plan the necessity of which is slowly sinking into the minds of even the strongest proponents of the war. Nor is Obama withdrawing from the fight against terrorism: he has called to maintain sufficient forces to target al Qaeda within Iraq while strengthening diplomatic channels and pursuing a more sophisticated counter-terrorism operation in the Middle East. While the Iraq war cannot be won with fear and sloppy logistics, Senator Obama shows that peace can be achieved with the right leadership.

The third reason is simple: Obama connects with ordinary folks because he knows how to listen to them. He has no sense of wounded entitlement; and he bears no traces of the divisions that stopped the U.S. government for weeks in 1994. Rather, his leadership style traces directly to work in the community. Before serving in the State Senate, Barack Obama was a community organizer in the inner cities of Chicago, working at $13,000 a year to rally communities on issues such as steel mill closings and housing. One newspaper comments that "Obama the presidential candidate still shows his roots--a faith in ordinary citizens, a quest for common ground and a pragmatic inclination toward defining issues in winnable ways."

On Race and Politics

The final reason the Obama campaigns portends a Presidency is that he knows how to unify people. And on this point, I would like to discuss race. It has become very popular among certain segments of the American populace to bring up the divisions within the black Community. But folks who care about the Community understand the significance and potential impact of an Obama Presidency. It is not just because Obama has overcome obstacles and then returned to the battleground of poverty to fight for the working class. It is also because, despite all he has accomplished, he cherishes who he is.

An Obama Presidency matters in the eyes of someone who needs a reason to keep moving forward despite the obstacles in the personal lives or the skepticism of political wrangling. It matters even more to the child who does not yet know that a black person cannot become president. In other words, Senator Obama transcends whatever notions we may empty into the psyche of blackness and elevates to hope.

And hope was precisely Dr. King’s legacy: to acknowledge that race is an important issue, fight it whenever it rears its ugly head, but that ultimately seek to be judged apart from it. That we can retain our differences while celebrating the overwhelming commonalities among us is perhaps the most amazing thing about America. In the Promised Land Speech, Dr. King said: [T]hat’s all this whole thing is about. We aren’t engaged in any negative protest and in any negative arguments with anybody. We are saying that we are determined to be men.

Meat-and-Potatoes

As we move past South Carolina, Senator Obama shows more than ever that he does not rest on the laurels of "a black man who speaks well." Senator Obama has begun to convince greater swaths of Americans that, among other things, he can (a) balance his criticism of the Iraq war with a credible plan to stabilize the Middle East (b) reform healthcare without starting an untenable and unaffordable standoff between the socialized medicine vs. free market camps and (c) shore up the economy in ways that add more meat-and-potatoes to our plates.

That (partial) lot is a tough gig that no "magical mystery tour", but hard grassroots work and deft political maneuvering, has accomplished. However young though he may appear, Obama is a tough and wise politician who has thrived in and against entrenched political machines. Yes, we can match Bill with Ted, Reid with Leahy, Dinkins with Patrick, and Rangel with more than half a dozen members of the Black Caucus. But that is hardly the point of the Obama Campaign. It is the promise that he can be responsive to those who desire a "reality check", and also to those who understand that a little hope and transformation of current realities may just be what we need.

vadaryl,
With all due respect, I don't think you get it. Hannity (Rush, Beck, Ingrim, etc.) need an enemy to rail against. That's what attracts their listeners.

So now they're supporting Hillary and vilifying McCain, who they think will get the nod. This way they have an enemy no matter who wins.

"Yes we can"? Is that a stealth Obama endorsement?
John | 02.04.08 - 9:40 am | #

The Farm Workers Union has endorsed Senator Clinton. Simply using the slogan doesn't make you "The Man"

I stole this from comments from another blog.

Obama is easier to beat in the General. That is why corporate media wants to defeat Hillary now.

Hey Warren

As we move past South Carolina, Senator Obama shows more than ever that he does not rest on the laurels of "a black man who speaks well."

What about Florida. Oh right if Obama doesn't win something he ignores it or claims there was somewrong with the electorate or the election itself.

A big thank you to everyone who contribute musicians for my questions about the blues. Here is the result

http://jdurward.blogspot.com/2008/02/i-woke-up-this-morning.html

Shiela, honey pie, you do have a point about us thinkin' differently - try as I might, I can't seem to get that thinkin' like a woman thing down very well. I still think that of the 100 milion viewers, drinking or not, more than the 250 Hallmark channel viewrs, over half of whom probably already support Hillary, will wake up and remember seeing Obama and confuse his commercial with one of the beer commercial and think maybe he ain't so bad after all. But sweetheart, you are right, the beer commercials were a lot more fun (and aren't you still supporting him?). Oh, & BTW, great post at 6:58.

ET, great new motto.

ET,great new motto. :-)

Colleen: "and apparently Obama is channeling Paul Wellstone...that can't hurt."

I knew Paul Wellstone. Barak Obama is no Paul Wellstone....

Is this Hannity person the one would do the "fair and balanced" newscasts with the statement "120 days until the re-election of President Bush"? I was shocked. The "news" media would have never dared do something like that back when I lived in the states. grrrrrrr.

QUESTION: ANY WAGERS ON WHO WILL GET THE MOST DEMOCRATIC WINS TOMORROW? ARE YOU ALL AS "ON EDGE" AS I AM?

Warren, couldn't you have posted that piece on your own blog or give us the link?

That Warren Buffett, he posts everywhere ;-)

I do not have a blog.

Hey Cracker - is that really all you can resort to. Your statement is not backed up by recent polls that show Obama closing in on Clinton's lead everywhere....including New York.

I think the superbowl is a great analogy. Clinton is like the Patriots. A football machine, a juggnaut that no one that could be defeated. Everyone that a Patriots victory was inevitable...

But the Giants won with hard work and determination. Just how Obama is succeeding with good old-fashioned grass roots political work and inspiration.

Finally, defense wins championships. And great leaders, that can appeal to all, win presidential elections.

Warren must be trying out for a job at CQ. Look out Crawford's younger intern who might work for less at the door.

yo soy Horsedooty!

I imagine this has been posted before - but if not, here's Krugman's take on Cinton & Obama's health care plans:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/04/opinion/04krugman.html?em&ex=1202274000&en=15e3ef55ea8cce37&ei=5087%0A

"But the Giants won with hard work and determination. Just how Obama is succeeding with good old-fashioned grass roots political work and inspiration."

Warren,

It would be nice if somewhere admidst all of that grass roots inspiration and determination he included just a few specifics of what he planned to DO other than HOPE

I know they need an enemy to rail against to get the ratings, but Hannity supporting Hillary for anything, even that, no way. I have a problem with anybody on the air asking their listeners to come up with any dirt they can. Freedom of sheech is one that but that is crossing the line.

Freedom of speech is one thing but that's crossing the line

Bleh. Morning Load has shown the Obama commercial umpteen times this am. They've totally have lost all objectivity if they ever had any int he first place.

I spent the weekend making calls for HRC at her national HQ in Arlington. What a revelation -- an entire floor of an office building in Ballston Commons filled with a diversity of people -- all ethnicities, ages young and old, both genders well represented.

Some of the states were were calling are supposedly owned by Obama (according to media reports) and I found the opposite to be true in the hundreds of people I spoke with. It's exciting to call up a stranger and talk with them just one voter to another telling them why I support Hillary Clinton for the DEM nomination. It's good to connect with fellow Americans. I told one man in Minnesota that I only knew two people in his state -- and he said "Well now you know three, because I consider you a friend." Wow. Several people who have gotten multiple calls over the past few days still thanked me for calling them yet again.

I did come across a few cranky Obama people -- including a couple of men who said that they definitely would not vote for HRC because she's a woman and the presidency is a "man's job." This is the politics of change?

What shadie things has he done in the past. Maybe we should do the same thing to him

ET, I'm learning not to bet, but I'd bet that Clinton wins more states and delegate votes tomorrow. And yes, it's that Hannity person. Consider yourself fortunate to be spared his simplistic political analysis and wholly fake attempts to present both sides of any issue. He has joined the Rush Limbaugh Shameless Self Promotion Club, and is a fucking moron.

pogo,
With all due respect to Krugman, Clinton's plan is a handout to the health insurance oligopolies. Obama's isn't universal. Both suck. Kucinich had a good one. But it doesn't make any difference. Presidents don't make law. Congress does.

Gee Warren

Those are the facts. Obama lied to the voters of Forida and said there might be a problem with the voters in NH

What's the matter can't hand;le the truth.

And this smear of the Senator Clinton and former President Clinton was an old style hit.

I believe there is a bandwagon effect in politics and it does not always result in the best choice.

So when Obama does not win a plurality of votes in Californina will be we hearing about the Bradley effect again.

Free air play for that ad. great move on Obama's team part. See the others should of done the same thing. Maybe Hillary will come up with something different tonight that will get played over and over on super tuesday

vadaryl - who are you talking about doing shady things? Hannity? Obama? Bill?

What's the bradley effect?

hannity

dnd, I don't disagree about your take on the UHC proposals. Short of an expansion of Medicare to cover the currently uninsured, I believe any plan that moves people into commercial health insurance policies will effectively operate as a windfall for the insurance industry.. I just had not seen Krugman's column and generally find his analyses to be helpful to financial dunderheads like myself.

Divalicias, you're doing a good thing. Thanks. Keep it up.

Hillary's got the old Dems who just want to win, and think "she's the best we can do." She's the queen of the status quo.

But Barak's got the young, the idealistic, the progressives: the Democratic wing of the Democratic party. He's a pocket full of change.

Barak's got the Obam-entun.

Listen all, I know things get pretty heated in these on-line forums - basically because those actively participating have pretty much made up their minds. So we can trade points all day long and it probably won't make much of a difference. But I hopped on the Obama bandwagon a long time ago because of his steadfast committment to ending the partisan politics of Washington. Now, of course you can point out "negative attacks" made by the Obama campaign, but in large part he had to respond to the Clinton attack machine. Also, I think that pointing out that Hillary is a divisive and polarizing figure is an important fact that voters, especially Democrats need to consider.

Anyways, the point is that Obama presents the best way forward past the partisan bickering. Policy differences don't mean as much if you can't get any legislation through the gridlock.

Moreover, I am by no means a fan of George Bush, but I was always troubled by the dissappointment and hostility he creates in Democrats. I hate to watch a State of the Union address and hear people jeer and slander our President. Unfortunately, there is a significant part of America that would feel similar hostility to Clinton - each time she gets up there to speak to the nation. While Obama can get up there and address the entire country and let us, and the rest of the world know, America is back.

And Clintonites - don't fear. Hillary is not going anywhere. She will still be on the Senate floor where her wonkish knowledge of policy will serve her well in moving the Democratic agenda forward under the leadership of Obama. I think she will be far more effective there than driving Republicans batty in the White House and creating the same media soap opera of personal attacks and partisanship that we have grown so accustomed to.

Anyways, the point is that Obama presents the best way forward past the partisan bickering. Policy differences don't mean as much if you can't get any legislation through the gridlock.

that is the most gratitous claptrap posted yet.
How come he hasn't worked to end the partisan bickering now. Or is not showing up to vote how he does it.

barack has the Oprahlama

Warren is apparently calling the whole goddamn election already. Talk about how NOT to win friends and influence people.

Krugman's points about health care are nit-picking.

Neither the Clinton nor Obama plans would emerge unscathed from Congress. Once Congress gets through slicing and dicing neither plan will much resemble what is now being proposed by the candidates. Both would be eroded by healh industry lobbyist influence.

None of the candidates had the guts to propose a truly universal single-payer (Canadian-style) system. So I say a plague on both their houses.

Obama will destroy the values of the democratic party...Hillary is the only chance we have for a new deal of this generaltion...Obama has already given up on Health care for all Americans....

oh and excuse me Warren, talk about re-writing history. It was Saint Obama who started the negative attacks, not Hillary. Remember? His numbers were down, hers were up?

Hillary has "Billemia."

Every time BIll speaks, she throws up.

vadaryl - Hannity would only be flattered by people looking into his past, and aside from pointing out that he's a college dropout neocon syncophant (traits he shares with Rush Limpballs), and fervently believes in social, political and military positions that the Catholic Church he so loudly proclaims to honor and obey considers immoral, who would give a crap? He's so transparent that only those idiots who listen to him and the likes of Limpballs,Coulter and Levin, and can't distinguish one from the other, take him seriously.

"Hillary's got the old Dems who just want to win"

Well I'll admit "old", but is there some reason that we can't just prefer her as the most experienced and capable candidate likely to deliver on her promises rather than an intelligent, untested but charismatic man with less than two years experience on the national and world scene?

oh right we do have examples of Obama's ending of bipartisan bickering

"I just did that last year," he said, to murmurs of approval.

A close look at the path his legislation took tells a very different story. While he initially fought to advance his bill, even holding up a presidential nomination to try to force a hearing on it, Mr. Obama eventually rewrote it to reflect changes sought by Senate Republicans, Exelon and nuclear regulators. The new bill removed language mandating prompt reporting and simply offered guidance to regulators, whom it charged with addressing the issue of unreported leaks.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/03/obama-weakened-nuclear-sa_n_84651.html

and how about the ethics bill...

Krugman's points about health care are nit-picking.

that is baloney. All of the studies done on the Mass plan and studies done by the Urban Institute on the plans say the mandatory component is necessary

Those idiots do listen to his crap, I don't know how Allan Colmes can work with him

There is a new Gallup poll that really shows the splits in the parties. Look at the "vote enthusiastically" columns for both Obama/Clinton and McCain/Romney

http://www.gallup.com/poll/104119/Clinton-Obama-Tied-Both-Satisfying-Democrats.aspx

Warren, WADR, that's a load. Swtich the names and it reads the same, maybe more accurately.

Nash, you are ON this morning. Oh, and an economist nit picking? Who could have guessed that? I do agree wih you on the healthcare issue - a single payer system is the only viable alternative to achieve universal coverage.

Not to change the subject, but here's an interesting piece on the DNC convention in Denver:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/feb/04/dnc-boost-for-sex-biz/

Do not trust anyone under thirty??? Perhaps you can tell that to the majority of our troops on active duty...better yet, you can serve in their place eurotom.

Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama sparred over health care reform during their debate Thursday in Hollywood, Calif. A key issue separates their two plans: mandating health care coverage. Clinton supports a mandate; Obama does not.
According to a recent report by the Urban Institute, any health care plan (aside from a single-payer system) will not be able to provide universal coverage without a mandate for coverage. So why is Obama afraid of a mandate?

vadaryl - yes, those idiots do listen to his crap - but I don't care about those idiots - they allvoted for Bush and will never voe for a dem.

Why argue about Barak vs Hillary?

McCain's going to win. The "maverick" will repackage himself as a "populist" in the general election and win back the independents. He's "likable," a little soft-spoken-teddy bear.

No one really likes the Clintons, and, once they get through with Obama, no one will like him either.

One last point - then I must get some work done.

Obama did not come up with his post-partisan stance for this election - he has been speaking about it for years. Read The Audacity of Hope of his Keynote address at the 2004 Convention.

If it is not working, how do you explain that fact that Republican heavyweights are inspired by his message as well as the new voters that are becoming part of the process.

I even think his message has led many voters to reject negative campaigning on both sides and many candidates are trying to alter their message to jump on this bandwagon.

The country wants this desparately because we all realize it is pragmatic - not just hopeful.

In addition to increasing the size of the pool, the other advantage to a "mandate" is the ability for the government to negotiate a lower rate for the basic policy no matter who offers it. This is how Congress gets it's lower rates as do the major unions. Increase the size of that pool to over 300 million people, it really brings pressure against insurance companies to lower prices to competitive rates.

Without that mandate and the result is higher rates. What I can't understand is why people who are opposed mandates in health care gladly pay mandated auto insurance because they don't want to post huge bonds to guarantee they can pay for the service. It's the same principle.

But when he requests those idiots to do something like find all the dirt on someone they deliver and he reports it. He's got to ways to get it out, Radio and TV.

As bad as the others are they don't put out that kind of request. I don't hear any other radio talk show host making that kind of request

I even think his message has led many voters to reject negative campaigning on both sides and many candidates are trying to alter their message to jump on this bandwagon.

The country wants this desparately because we all realize it is pragmatic - not just hopeful.

wow
the do as I say not as I do candidate..

"Do not trust anyone under thirty??? Perhaps you can tell that to the majority of our troops on active duty...better yet, you can serve in their place eurotom."

Oh Christ, Flash....Eurotom was just making a wisecrack, a play on the old '60s mantra.

The Hillary people want to argue health care today.

Yeah. You wouldn't want to talk about your candidate's position on the WAR.

She KNEW it was wrong, but she voted for it because she didn't want to appear "weak."

That's why it took so long to get us out of Vietnam: cowards in Congress, afraid of looking weak.

God only knows how many more will die so Hillary doesn't look weak.

The easy thing for Hillary to do is say, I made a mistake on that vote. But to her credit she is not taking the easy way out and taking all the heat. Most of us would take the easy way out and end the crap but she isn't and may lose the election over it. That says something about her character.

Hey Nash 1972
how did that Anti war candidacy work out.

The problem is while pretty much everyone things eyrack in fubar the devil is in the details

Many Americans still think it was right to go but Shrub just did a bad job.

Again if Bush and his messed up crew would of done the job they were selected not elected to do this vote would not mean a thing.

goldenflash, I think that was a joke - a play on Jerry Rubin's comment to never trust anyone over 30.

If the war is your issue
shouldn't you be supporting Barbara Lee
she was in Congress at the time and stood her ground\
and has ever since unlike Obama who has the same voting record as Clinton

so, has Barbara Lee endorsed anyone?

Nash

She voted for an "authorization" for the President to act if he felt it was necessary. That was six years ago. Obama has stated that even though he was opposed to the war he doesn't know how he would have voted on that particular piece of legislation.

For the past two years both Clinton and Obama's voting records have been identical. So is his vote totally right while her identical vote is totally wrong?

When it comes to negotiation and taking a firm stance with other governments, I just find her more believable if only because she has been willing to take responsibility for that old vote ... no crying over something that can't be changed, just I did it because I believed certain conditions as layed out by the President of the United States that weren't true. Now I want to fix the mess he got us into.

With the converging harmonics tomorrow of Fat Tuesday, Super Tuesday and Chinese New Year, a friend calls it Stupor Tuesday.

tt

Thanks Patsi, I can't believe someone was being so idiotic about a change on the old '60s saying.

Oh and Nash, I think your post was below the belt and ridiculous. Hillary voted on the basis of trumped up intelligence coerced out of various agencies from Cheney and Co. As I understand her point, she voted on the basis of the intelligence and is sorry the war went on, but that the real people who should apologise are the Republicans.

As for me, I've had it with some of the comments I have read. Flash mostly! Anyone have any third party candidates worth looking at?

the older generations just hate having people getting involved because they feel like someone is stealing their thunder...get over yourselves

Barbara Lee has endorsed Obama
Ron Dellums Clinton

Jamie you said it better than I did

The Out of Iraq Congressional Caucus membership is evenly split between the two

Lynn Woolsey another member who voted against the authorization is a Clinton supporter.

Glad ya got home OK, Craig.

~Carry on.

tt

Givemeabreak

"the older generations just hate having people getting involved because they feel like someone is stealing their thunder...get over yourselves"

We are more than happy to have you involved. It would be nice if you brought your brains to the conversation. Would you care to specify just WHY you are supporting your candidate other than the one given by another of your generation, "He's The Man".

c'mon, nash, which is it - talk Hillary-Obama or not? bud, I completely agree that the vote to authorize military force was a mistake,don't buy her explanation, but I don't insist that she protrate herself and apologize. I also know Obama has voted to fund the war from day one in Congress. I also know that Hillary, like Obama, is pledged to get the troops out of Iraq - that's enough of an apology for me. Talking war isn't a winner for him anymore than it is a loser for her. Talking healthcare may be more of a winner for her because his plan is weak and he doesn't do a good job of explaining it or why he opposes mandatory coverage. To you the differences may be niggling, to many, however, they seem to be substantive,and as we know, the appearance of substance is probabaly more important anyway since the electorate doesn't really understand the plans.

And now, lunch - I'm thinkin' cajun.

Maxine Waters Out of Iraq Caucus
Clinton

Why am I supporting Obama - he has the best chance to win the general election:

Hillary argues she is a “known quantity,” that she has been vetted and she has been through the Republican attack machine. Ironically, so will Barack after defeating Hillary in the primaries.
But the fact that the Republicans have already used some of the attacks that will be thrown her way during the general does not act as some type of magical cloak that will eliminate the effectiveness of such arguments in 2008.

The GOP will argue that Hillary’s position on the Iraq was has been based polls rather than principle. And they will have ample support. In fact, the charge could be made that one consideration in her votes on foreign policy has been careful positioning for her run at the White House. Republican attacks alleging such cold calculation could have the American public running to the straight talk of a war hero who has shown great political courage throughout his career.

McCain also holds the trump card on experience. What will Hillary run on in the general without the “experience” argument? Change? McCain will be able to make a more credible argument that by ending the Bush-Clinton-Bush dynasty - he is the true candidate of change. I don’t know about you - but that case will work with plenty of Independents. Especially coming from a maverick like McCain who is lambasted by hyper-partisan pundits from his own party.

Indeed, it is very possible that because many Americans have made clear that they want to move past the political hang-ups of the nineties . . . these familiar attacks against the Clintons will carry even more weight in the current political scene.

The way to beat the Republicans is not to out play them according to the rules of their playbook. Its time to throw out the damn playbook and conduct politics in a way that serves the American people. This is Obama’s strength. He has been a public servant with experience in helping people and making a real difference in their lives. He possesses the intelligence, the judgment and the determination to move America forward. Finally, this is all consistent with Barack’s narrative: Changing – and improving – the way politics is done.

tt, C/S!!

gee Warren did you say in 2004

"I am supporting John Kerry because he is the most electable. How did that work out?"

Christ!
I'd have to give up my day job to keep up with this blog lately.....

to any of you who said sorry to me about the Patriots losing (I'm sure there were a few of you)...... thanks..... it's a disappointing lost..... Congrats to all the Giants fans..... Eli was awesome.....

ok..... go on back to bashing each other over Obama and Clinton..... I'm sure that's what's going on....... I'm no longer reading it...... gotta life to live....

See ya....

"the older generations just hate having people getting involved because they feel like someone is stealing their thunder...get over yourselves

Posted by: givemeabreak | February 4, 2008 11:54 AM"

Now we can add ageism to the sexism and alleged racism.

Jamie,
Surely you must think it's funny that the young "inexperienced" candidate's supporters say: "He's The Man" and the older "experienced" candidate says: "I'm your girl!"

dnd I don't get the point.

I think the argument about Senator Kerry cuts against Hillary. He has the same credentials, i.e., "experience" and he got hammered for flip-flopping on the war.

Obama presents the possibility of bringing record turn outs and winning over Independents and even some Republicans. Kerry could not inspire - even if he could impress.

Warren,

Then let's go with the known quantity. Do you believe for a second that given 30+ years of right wing hatred, that there is one shred of anything about Hillary Clinton that the public hasn't heard? Do you believe for a second that the demonizing of of Barrack Obama is only just begun?

I am not going to let my vote be swayed by the standards of the far right garbage producers. This isn't a matter of tactics, it is a matter of who do you honestly believe will do the best job and whose positions on issues most agree with yours.

This country wants out of Iraq. She has promised to start withdrawals withing 60 days. This country needs universal healthcare. She has come up with a plan with 100% coverage. People are losing their homes. She has pledged to start taking action NOW in the senate to come up with a plan to freeze cost increases long enough to weather the storm.

I think even the Republicans are so demoralized by this President that the more moderate and the independents will vote for the Dem candidate no matter who that is.

We were talking about the electability issue and using that as a standard. And in fact, Obama is more like Kerry against the war before he voted for it.

dnd

Well there was all that stuff before "I'm your girl"... you know all those promises that started, "If you want ...

All of those "If you want" statements are the reasons I support "my girl". Unlike the one who couldn't come up with a single reason to declare Obama "The Man"

Still very windy here...that means bad weather in the Southeast US tomorrow...a good sign for HRC, I believe. AND speaking of wind, Warren, geez can you tone it down? I hate when people shove BO down my throat....I am gagging on BO, I have said this before.

"The country (oh, you speak for the whole country) wants this desparately because we all realize it is pragmatic - not just hopeful "

-- I get real suspicious of people who lump us all together. It's my American, too. I want HRC not BO, but I really want a dem to win in November and whoever is the winner of the nomination will prove to be the most electable.

I called the Sis in Pennsylvania...she and her boyfriend are glued to the tv this year...will be voting for HRC.

Aside

The salesgenie ad for the superbowl with the talking pandas was pretty racist. I do not understand how that got on the air. What were they thinking?

Superbowl Cow commercial

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d806739ee&categoryId=events&filter=super-bowl

Jamie,
From a policy perspective, I don't think there's a dime's worth of difference between Clinton and Obama. As I see it, there are two major differences between them.

1. Obama is more like a CEO, Hillary is more like a COO. You saw what the micro-manager COO approach did for Carter. The visionary CEO thing worked well for JFK and Reagan, though one could argue their actual contributions.

2. Hillary champions herself as a fighter, chomping at the bit to get into a fistfight with the Republicans, despite her alter-ego as a lovable, compassionate soul. That's not a uniter, something those of us in the middle long for in these troubled times. Obama is just as prickly as Clinton, but he does a better job of hiding it. And he doesn't carry the Clinton baggage.

Would Obama be any better or more effective? That's anybody's guess. And guess is the operative word here. It all depends on which approach one thinks is better.

I agree with Colleen. Out of 300 million people, you'd think we could have come up with better selections.

All the Superbowl Commercials are here:

http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/story?id=09000d5d8067cfce&template=with-video&confirm=true&campaign=gsi_g

The Panda commercial with the phony Chinese accent was tacky and pretty stupid, but I don't think racist in the sense of demonizing a racial group.

Would Obama be any better or more effective? That's anybody's guess. And guess is the operative word here. It all depends on which approach one thinks is better

We do have evidence of how his legislative plans work out. We do not have to speculate how how Obama would work out issues. The nuclear storage bill is a perfect example. People act like there is no evidence and there is plenty.

SF Chronicle live blogged the superbowl ads
this from the reporter posting

The most notable ad in these two breaks was the horribly unfunny and tasteless Salesgenie ad, with Pandas speaking in Chinese accents. Someone's going to be apologizing tomorrow. And the next day. And the day after that. Read More »

Posted By: Peter Hartlaub (Email) | Feb 04 at 05:45 AM

Firedoglake's Jane Hamsher

pushing back against the Hill haters

http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/04/pushing-back-against-the-hillary-haters/#more-16944

warren, if I thought that past voting trends were about to be proven to be poor predictors of what the voting demos will look like in Nov., I'd probably be on the Obamabandwagon with you. Regardless, if he gets the nomination I'll be on it anywho. But if I was a bettin' man, I'd bet that Hillary has a better chance of getting the female demo out to vote than Barack has of getting the under 30 demo out. IME history is a pretty good predictor of the future.

and dnd, wouldn't you agree that Dumya has taken more of a CEO approach to running the government, leaving the COO role to Cheney?

Blond wino - I take your point. If I did not support Obama I can appreciate how the "Obamamania" is off-putting. Sometimes I get sick of myself spouting off about Obama. But keep in mind I am an Indepedent voter who has never been so involved in politics. I think Obama's ability to draw new voters in and also have more of America engaged in the political process is something that should not be discounted.

KGC

Completely agree that the panda commercial was completely unfunny, ineffective and tacky. Given all the crud on TV not sure it was so much racist as just stupid and insensitive, but so are the Simpsons.

dnd

"I agree with Colleen. Out of 300 million people, you'd think we could have come up with better selections."

Unfortunately, very few of those 300 million people have the name ID, political support, and money to even be considered for Prez. That has to start 25 years before the election with a seat on the City Council. If you want a better candidate in 2032, you better start looking for him or her now.

We've got what we've got, so what is the best combination of getting something good immediately that generates a vision for future action. That's why I would dearly love the Clinton/Obama "dream ticket" if they could actually work together after this is all over and Bill will go play with his library, speaking engagements, and Around the world good deeds. :-)

By the way, in a wholly atypical early recognition of something truly important - Laissez le bon temps roulez!!! (The cajun lunch was outstanding).

The bandwagon effect is very powerful in politics.

People like to say the voted for the winner. The trends are all in Obama's favor.

I think given the Hillary haters the undecideds will break for Obama.

It won't decide the primary though. If I were Queen of Everything at the Clinton campaign, I would pivot and let Obama really wear the front runner mantle and see what is like to be the object of the gooper smear machine.

dnd -- regarding your wish for a "uniter"....

We already elected one of those in 2000. It was a helluva deal.

This comment from firedoglake descrbes precisely how I feel:

"Hatred of women simply permeates our culture, and yes, I take it personally. I take Hillary hatred personally.
Whenever I hear a Democrat saying something against her that I’ve heard from Rush Limbaugh listeners years ago, I just marvel at his reach. What a job he’s done, to get Dems to repeat his message."

Do the polls in CA take into account "early voting"? Have heard yes and no. If not, they are worthless.

Warren said: " But keep in mind I am an Indepedent voter who has never been so involved in politics."

And since you, a basically non-political indie, are attempting to make decisions for the Democratic party, may I ask if you will stick around if your candidate doesn't win the primaries or in fact, if he wins the primaries, loses the general?

I don't think you will. I think you'll truck on back to whatever it was you were doing.

"Finally you said something I can get fully on board with. "

Apparently I'm not the only one who doesn't "get it".

Warren...I can appreciate your passion...I have that same passion for my gal, too. Even Brain in NYC will vote for the dem nominee (whether BO or HRC)...we just may need nose mittens to do so. : )

Brain...the Simpsons are the best and it reminds of Bill Bennett, the former drug czar, current CNN pundit and addict (he may currently be a member of GA (Gamblers Anonymous)). During his reign as czar, many drug dealers (who also happened to be black) adopted Bart Simpson sort of like a mascot. So, Bennett wanted to ban Bart Simpson t-shirts and the like from schools. Well, there was a lot of protest about that and Bennett trying to be contrite, stated he would sit down with Bart Simpson and discuss it to work things out. Matt Groening, the Simpsons creator (and another of my most fav peeps in the world) issued a statement that (paraphrased) "he wondered what the drug czar might be "on" if he thought he could actually sit down with a cartoon character. : )

Here is more on BB

http://blogs.citypages.com/amadzine/2003/05/more_fun_bill_bennett_facts_pl.php

the wind continues to be so fierce here...

I hate to use the "C" word, but this may be more than the winds of change. It may knock out a lot power on Super, Duper FAT Tuesday...like I said, I fear killer tornadoes.

Ah, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

Well, so much for a blonde wino memory...but I do remember most DDs (hey, my drug dealer did back then!) did adopt Bart Simpson. I also forgot that Bill has a stint as Education Secretary (way before 'no child left behind'). I do remember this was targeted at the black community.

"The critical nature of the program has been at times controversial. Many elementary schools banned Bart Simpson T-shirts, especially those with the slogan, "Underachiever, and Proud of It." U.S. President George Bush and former U.S. Secretary of Education William Bennett publicly criticized the program for its subversive and anti-authority nature."

LOL at the Groening line. I was never a huge Simpsons fan, although whenever I watched it, I thought it was hilarious.

Well, Brain, what does that say about your taste?

Patsi - I think your post smacks of why I am so involved. I don't appeciate people saying - I have been here longer so we should do what I say. I think all ideas should be judged on their merits - not on the basis of partisan politics or some sense of entitlement.

I went to law school in DC and was turned off by the hyper-partisan atmosphere. There is no debate on political issues - there were simply talking points lined up by each side so that people could talk past one another rather than to one another.

I for one think more would be accomplished if politicians based policies on common sense and pragmatism rather than rigid partisan positions. The Republicans are being forced to come to grips with this as they must reluctantly come to grips with McCain.

I am pro-Obama because I think a Democrat needs to take power to reverse the destructive foreign policy that has occurred on Bush. And I think Obama presents the best way to win the general and bring some consensus on this issue.

I think Groening was even better before the Simpsons and Futurama. I still have his 'The 81 types of Employees' framed. I used as a reference when I managed a department of peeps. : )

Oh and I almost forgot, suppose like Patsi says, me and thousands of others will not be so involved if Obama does not win the primary, is this a good thing for the Democratic party or the country?

""The critical nature of the program has been at times controversial. Many elementary schools banned Bart Simpson T-shirts,"

I remember when it happened and having mixed feelings. Anything Bennett was against was something I was for and censorship of any kind bothers me even when I don't like what they are trying to censor.

The problem is that you can't raise other people's children. My grandaughter has watched those shows for about as long as they've been on. She would cry if a pigeon got hit by a car in the street. The Reverend Huckabee's kid hangs dogs. ... go figure.

One kid plays an "mature" video game and volunteers at the local homeless shelter. Another plays the same game and takes a machine gun to his classmates.

Re: Presidential election against McCain.. I say, "bring it on.' All dems have to do is run ad after ad of McCain saying the economy isnt his strong suit..and that America will invade all over the world..

warren we got it like 20 times already on today's blog. You are pro-Obama BECAUSE ...
1
2
3
4

Are you paid staff?

ET

"me and thousands of others will not be so involved if Obama does not win the primary, is this a good thing for the Democratic party or the country? "

If the commitment is to the country rather than to the candidate, then it shouldn't matter if the candidate does not match your exact viewpoints. One of the things that make a "youth Movement" suspect is the tendency if they don't win to take their toys and go home instead of staying with the fight to get the things they want from the candidate who won.

Warren enlighten me as to the how and why --

"I am pro-Obama because I think a Democrat needs to take power to reverse the destructive foreign policy that has occurred on Bush. And I think Obama presents the best way to win the general and bring some consensus on this issue."

The first time I suspected BONBC of anti-Hilliarism, was the Friday after the Iowa Caucus. It may have even been Fineman (the new redhead) and/or Matthews..

"Imagine a Muslim boy waking-up to BO elected President of the United States. What a strong message that would send!"

I thought that was so much bullsh*t, besides the obvious that the young Muslim boy might Jihad again a Christian (read infidel)

What about all of the oppressed females of the world? I think a much stronger message would come from the United States if we had the balls to elect a woman.

Jamie

You have figured out why there are so many home schoolers out there.

Family Guy is KO's fav program as his voice was used in an episode. One of the creators is also on Mad TV. I could never figure out how both of these shows (The Simpsons and Mad TV) made it to Fox TV when the 'news' division was so nazi.

Bill Bennett probably did more to popularize the Simpsons among people who didn't already watch it than the Fox network ever did through its promotion of the show.

Not to change the subject to other topics of import politically, but has anyone else read about Bush's final proposed budget? Jesus H. Christ!! What has he been smoking?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/04/washington/04cnd-budget.html?hp

I can't even begin to get my mind around numbers like this - and I'm sure his shoulders will cramp as he tries to pat himself on the back for proposing a balanced budget FOUR YEARS AFTER HE LEAVES OFFICE. Imagine how hard he had to work to find 151 programs to cut or trim to save $18B in a 3 trillion dollar budget. I guess the Dept of Education annual tiddly winks league won't get its funding under this budget. How about cut one program that doesn't work - NCLB and save $24B, or maybe another one that doesn't work - the war in Iraq - and save a couple hundred billion?

I'm a bit challenged in this regard, but could someone tell me how to spell DOA?

Blonde wino - I have thought about this, and I think Obama is more symbolic of the American dream. Obviously, Hillary or Barack would be a major breakthrough - but I think the fact that Barack is a true outsider makes the story more compelling and inspirational to kids who are not born into wealth and opportunity. Hillary is the establishment candidate no matter what ceiling she breaks through.

I think Groening's best work is "Life in Hell."

Jaime - I agree that many young voters will be dissaffected if Obama doesn't win. They will say - looks like politics as usual won out - so let the politicians have their fun and I will go back to my regular life. I am a realist and because this is the likely scenario - I think all the more important for Barack to win and capitalize on this new energy rather than letting it die on the vine.

So I've begun looking at 3rd parties running candidates for President. This one is a real whopper :)

http://www.prohibition.org/

The Prohibition Party

And the candidates look like loads of fun !! Enjoy.

Warren how fricking ageist. It seems Obama is getting so much attention because he is young. WTF????

EuroTom - not paid staff - just an inspired loud-mouthed New Yorker.

I support Obama because:

-he is intelligent and I think reading his books and seeing him on extended interviews have prevented me from falling victim to claims that he lacks substance.

-he does not have so much baggage. I would agree with all of you that much of the negativity thrown Hillary's way is unjust - but again, being a realist - it's there. I do not doubt Hillary can still win over some people that don't like her - but unfortunately, for a significant part of the country - this conversation is closed and they will not come around.

-his strength is in building coalitions. That is what Dems need to win the general. It is also a huge factor in making progress abroad as well as domestically.

"Oh and I almost forgot, suppose like Patsi says, me and thousands of others will not be so involved if Obama does not win the primary, is this a good thing for the Democratic party or the country? "

I am simply asking you if you are here for the party or here for the "party"?

If your guy doesn't win, are you prepared to keep on building the Democratic party through work and contributions or not? OR, will you run home until somebody else catches your fancy?

Warren

BO is NOT an outsider, he is a Senator.

And you still haven't answered the question as to the how and why of this statement --

I am pro-Obama because I think a Democrat needs to take power to reverse the destructive foreign policy that has occurred on Bush. And I think Obama presents the best way to win the general and bring some consensus on this issue.

That same old pretty storefront with no back to it!

I am sorry to bore everyone with this again, but when I returned from downunder last September. I came back a pro-Hillary supporter. I was on the fence about her because the lazy media here told me she was unelectable and unlikable -- the same lazy media that allowed Rovian proproganda to keep GWB in power for all of these years. And I was overwhelmed by how many Australians and New Zealanders who told me how much they loved (liked) Hillary and hope we would elect her. A real eye opener from the foreigners!

Is it true that Barack Obama is a smoker? Another friend in Belgium just told me that. If so, that's a GREAT role-model for the younger generation.

Warren...woman are part of the American Dream too. And acheiving that dream, I believe, is much harder for a woman than a man.

"-his strength is in building coalitions. That is what Dems need to win the general. It is also a huge factor in making progress abroad as well as domestically."

And your proof of this is? It is Clinton who has the legislative record of getting small steps passed even in the face of Republican control.

So much of the claims for Obama are just that claims ... no proof ... no real facts just pie in the sky isn't it all wonderful fluffy clouds and butterflies. When you actually examine the history of his WORK, he is more noticeable for being elsewhere.

See, Warren, I don't think HRC is politics as usual - so far we've had exactly no women and no blacks in the West Wing offices. If you don't see Hillary as just as different as compared to McCain as Obama is different as compared to McCain, either you have gotten past the historical milestones her and Obama's candidacies represent or you just buy the "establishment" claptrap put out by the Obama campaign, or both. However I don't see how you can look past the fact that both Hillary and Obama represent a huge change simply by virtue of their gender and race that will serve to bring out voters who would otherwise have little inclination to bother to choose between two old white guys to run the country.

BTW, where'd you go to law school & do you practice? If so, doing what?

Patsi - I will continue to base my politics on policy and pragmatism. I tend to lean to the left - but I also think the Republicans make some pretty good arguments. For example, I think Chuck Hegel has a lot of good points on the Iraq War.

I respect the right to choose - but I think a Dem should appeal to evangelicals by instituting programs aimed at cutting down teenage pregnancy and abortions.

I think an immigration bill should have been passed re: border security. I can't believe after all that work - they scrapped the entire project because of partisan battles.

I think you should make small steps. Passing bills on the points people agree on in the hopes that in time - we will have a comprehensive immigration policy.

I think if you watch BO you can spot him chewing gum some times...Nicorette? Gum to mask cig smoke?

My favorite part of Patsi's 2:08 post may have been an accidental juxtaposition or brilliant subliminal messaging:

. . . "Underachiever, and Proud of It." U.S. President George Bush . . . "

ET, yes, Obama is, or at least was, a smoker. Back late last summer I think it was he said that Mrs. O gave him hell about it and suggested he was going to quit - since then, nothing really heard about it.

OMG another loud mouthed New Yorker. Never a shortage of that.

Boy, Warren, you need to come to border before you start talking that crap.

I am sorry we are all taking target practice on you, but you need to get that red bullseye out of your rhetoric.

Ed, you have a great eye.

Evidence of building coalitions? Look around you. This guy has inspired the young and the old, outsiders and the establishment, Republicans and Democrats. Don't need to look to the past - he is doing it right now.

Yeah, Warren, let's suck up to the evangelicals over a woman's right to choose. Let 'em keep chipping away at it. Let's get behind the former Att. General of Kansas who came close to getting his evangelical hands on abortion clinic records, women's names and addresses. That's just pragmatic as hell. Let's suck up to 'em on gay and lesbian issues as well.

Warren -- What poll are you referring to? Or are you buying into what you hear from the lazy media?

Patsi.... that is how Warren thinks this guy is a "uniter." So, brilliant. So, laughable. I think we have another woman hater amongst us.

I said nothing about chipping away the right to choose. I am talking about decreasing abortions and the need for them. That is not sucking up to anyone -- it is a point I think any rational person would agree on. Your partisan battle cry makes my point. That nonsense is counterproductive.

Up until today I was an undecided voter. When I hear obama I am inspired, He's amazing. But. He isn't getting the substance through to me. I need facts. I need specific plans. I want to know how all this will be accomplished. When I went to an Obama rally--albeit surrogates-- I didn't get what I wanted from his camp. I haven't gotton it from the debates either. I want the depth too. I have decided to vote for Hill.

I resent your comment about being a woman hater. You pick a fight with me and then ridicule me when I engage. Sound familiar? It is what the Clinton campaign did after Iowa in an attempt to slow the inevitable wave.

Yep, Warren....worrying about girls being encouraged to quit having sex with men who abandon them or "have that baby" anyway is just flat nonsense.

" Back late last summer I think it was he said that Mrs. O gave him hell about it and suggested he was going to..."

I'll tell ya, Eurotom....if he has the strength to quit while in the middle of this campaign I'd be stunned AND maybe even a semi "believer"!!

Patsi - how bout encouraging guys to not abandon girls after they get pregnant and then insituting better programs to make sure these deadbeats are paying child support.

Respect the right to choose does not mean you are FOR abortions. And I think a lot of consensus can be built around this point and it could help young mothers in many ways.

Warren

I apologize, you are not a woman hater, perhaps a 'woman ignorer' best suits you. Like Brain in NYC 's 'ignore Patsi.' Yes, woman should be seen and not heard.

And we are not fighting, we are debating.

You know Warren, you are wasting your breath. You are like a fire and brimstone preacher trying to tell people what to think. I guess maybe we are all like that at times, but the fact is, there are no undecideds on this board, or very few, so why are we arguing? The only thing I am undecided about is what I will do if Obama gets the nomination... 3rd party? write in candidate? give up voting? I still believe in Hillary and I think she also inspires. And she doesn't smoke. :) sorry I had to through that in there.

I think the politically motivated people are on edge because this is a big piece of the race. Preaching isn't going to calm any nerves, and any of us arguing anymore seems a waste of time. If you want to know why I think Obama is not an agent of change go to `BLOGTALK on this page and look up THOMAS FREEMAN and that will take u to my blog. Or visit http://www.myspace.com/eurotom if you are a myspace member. My friend is telling me to log off coz he can tell I am getting wound up.

Until tomorrow...

Yep, the smoking thing bothers me too, ET. I have lost many smoking relatives and friends to lung cancer. It shows a lack of leadership...what about the health plan again, BO? The old 'do as I say, not as I do.' Oh dear, I think we are going to have to get a nose mitten for this one.

Brain in NYC

I am glad you are so typical.

Hey, didn't the three stooges have a Woman Haters Club????

Proud of being a misogynist -the Hilary Haters.

Try substituting gay or black and see how funny you think it is.

Yes you would say you hate her for other reasons but what are they. You love Obama for no reason and you hate Hilary for no reason.

From Wiki

The Stooges, employed as traveling salesmen, join the Woman Haters Club. They swear never to get romantically involved with a woman. That does not last very long. Larry finds a woman, Mary (Marjorie White), falls in love, and has proposed marriage. Misogynists Moe and Curly talk him out of it, but Mary's father threatens Larry and makes him marry his very attractive daughter. Later, on a train ride, the confrontation escalates between the Stooges and Mary.

Oh the wind is really bad here!

And now my pets... it's bedtime. It's been a stressful day and evening. Thanks for the political chat. I am drained, but I sort of enjoyed it, in a futile sort of masochistic way. :-)

Blonde wino,
I agree that smoking is bad. I too have lost friends and relatives who were smokers. But I don't think one can call it a character/leadership issue.

ps. As far as Bill Clinton and cigars, not gonna go there...

you know Blonde wino, they used to say that you can always tell a Texan but you can't tell them much. I suspect that with regards to the border it should be revised to say you can always tell a New Yorker but you can't tell them anything. Was is Eprof2 yesterday that said he was amazed that the further you lived from the border the more you were for the fence. Absolutely true.

yo soy Horsedooty!

Yep, the 3 stooges...Warren, Brain in NYC and dnd (how could you do this to us, dnd??)

: )

America is not faced with a roll of the dice. Voters are faced with the following choice: (i) select a familiar partisan gladiator and hope she will out maneuver political opponents in the zero-sum game of Washington politics, or (ii) support a new American Majority that can begin to make progress on the issues of the day.

Hillary is part of the old (or current) framework that is based on so-called “coalition building.” In other words, the politicians seek to win our votes in piecemeal fashion. They even divided our country up into little blue and red pieces to pick and choose from. They further divided us into interest groups, liberals, conservatives, radicals, etc. This way we would not forget who we are supposed to vote for so we can then ignore most of what the politicians say and get back to our real lives.

This mirco-targeted politics too often leads to fragmented policies that miss the target. Often because there is no agreement on the goal and even less on how we get there. This framework results in efforts to please special interests and bring down political opponents instead of producing real progress on big issues common to Americans from every single state and in every single aisle.

We can get away from politicians that seek to control the news cycle and elect politicians that seek to change the news. Imagine if instead of investigations, subpoenas or the most recent “he said she said” from Capitol Hill, we heard about US troops coming home, a world summit on global warming led by the US or serious diplomatic efforts in the Middle East.

Hillary is a great politician. She is one of the most effective Senators on the floor at pushing the Democratic agenda. And she has been fighting the Republicans for years. But right now we do not need someone to push the Democratic agenda on this country. We need a person to bring this country together and lead this entire nation through a critical stage in its history. As an American, I do not want the State of the Union address to be to half of the room or half of the country. I want Barack Obama to get in front of the entire United States and tell us and the rest of the world that America is back.

" how bout encouraging guys to not abandon girls after they get pregnant "

Great idea Warren. Let's do that. If we ask nicely maybe they'll see the light.

Hello Horsedooty!

I remember when Hannity had our gov, BR, on his show arguing with him about the border fence. HSS Chertoff told us "to grow up" about the border fence. I still would like to take them (the other 3 stooges -- Dobbs, Chertoff andHannity) to the bootheel.

Horsedooty, you got that right.

Dooty -- I liked the comment someone said on tv a few months back: Show me a 20 foot fence and I'll show you a guy with a 21 foot ladder.

I have been asking my unevolved redneck neighbors who they were planning on voting for since John Edwards dropped out of the race and it seems about 5 to one that they were going to vote for Hillary. Seems the woman is winning over the black guy. Some of you that had read some of my earlier postings will remember that I had told you of their distress about their choices. A few of them said they wouldn't vote now. And a couple said they were going to cast a vote for Edwards anyway.
This is out of about 50 or 60. I try to bring them into the 21st century. But sometimes it's hard tromping through all the cowsh_t around here.

Blonde wino,
"Yep, the 3 stooges...Warren, Brain in NYC and dnd (how could you do this to us, dnd??)"

It's a (semi) long running joke here to tease our Hillary supporting friends.

And let me just say that any woman that's so knowledgeable about the Three Stooges, well, um, will you marry me?

Warren...

BO is divider, look at what a good job he is doing on this site. And Oprah's man is splitting this country into a million little pieces...

Warren- HRC would make a great Senate Majority Leader.

The campaign being waged against Obama by the Clintons is the most gentle I can remember. There is the real problem of party unity in Nov. Hillary is faced with this: "win the battle and lose the war". If the Clinton campaign turns up the heat on Obama, it would alienate so many Dems, that a Nov win for her would be unlikely. The Repubs will not have any reason to hold back. Recently on BONBC, both Pat Buchanan and Peter Fenn agreed that Obama would be in for months of withering attacks.

Patsi LOL LOL LOL ...

"if we ask nicely..." :)

dnd

Perhaps if Mitt gets elected he will make us all practice ploygamy, just like Hillary will force us all to have abortions.

I have been a practicing serial monogamist my entire adult life, but you do sound sort of cute.

Doots,
"the further you lived from the border the more you were for the fence."

Witness Tom Tancredo (R-CO).

The only fences that should be built are the ones surrounding prisons housing the employers who hire illegals.

NOTE TO NEWBIES: I'm not anti-Hispanic! Our junior senator Ken Salazar's family came from down south, and they were here long, long before Colorado became a territory, much less a state.

Hopefully, Obama's poll numbers are as over-inflated as the Stewie balloon. (And wasn't it nice to see Charlie Brown finally coming out on top?) Otherwise, reality is really gonna bite for the Dems come the general.

I agree GORDO.. the war agains HRC has been a lot tougher. I remember one of the VPs I worked with saying to a director (right before he canned her ass) -- 'the finest steel goes through the hotest fire.'

My, hasn't this been a pleasant little afternoon at Crawford's place? I think we could throw open a window and get a little fresh air in here.

Patsi...that guy with the ladder remark was Bill Richardson.

Kathy,
"Warren- HRC would make a great Senate Majority Leader."

Interesting idea. She certainly has more cojones than the current one.

Pogo

I can't open the window...too much wind.

H-doody...you getting any wind?

Remember..Hillary's National Town Hall is tonight at 9 Eastern Time and 6 Oregon Time....

You can watch on the Hallmark Channel or at hillaryclinton.com

Warren

" think all the more important for Barack to win "

What bothers me is that none of the Obama supporters can point to what he has DONE as some sort of hint for what he is likely to DO

Something as simple as attendance at his subcommittees. If he doesn't have time to do the work he is supposed to be doing now, why should we expect him to work harder as president?

I think we are all stressed and having another East coast "expert" preaching at us the virtues of Barack Obama doesn't sit well.

I mean damn, Britney's in the looney bin and her dad is her appointed protector - nothing there worth talking about; new Joren Vandersloot video - self serving of course - go figure, besides, who cares; top movie of the week was Hannah Montana - please; Superbowl's been talked to death; SDT looms, but who knows about trends there? No wonder everyone's sniping at each other.

I agree with you totally Jamie. It seems like it would be fun to be in the lovefest with Obama, but like I said earlier. No substance. Just flowers and sugar.

no Blonde wino no wind here but is is 76Ftomorrow supposed to rain. but I talked to my best bud in Alpine, TX this AM and he said it was windy there. Alpine is about 250 east of El Paso. I live in Fort Worth I am another 500 miles north and east of alpine.

yo soy Horsedooty!

I keep hearing about baggage. Everyone has baggage or they wouldn't be packed for the campaign trail.

We didn't find BO in a brand new package on the steps of the Senate. He has baggage, too.

Now you can have too much baggage or packed the wrong bags....

pogo,
"No wonder everyone's sniping at each other."

Hang on buddy. Spring training starts in a couple of weeks.
Must, be, strong...

"support a new American Majority that can begin to make progress on the issues of the day"

Does this come with blue birds and serenades?

NEW THREAD

Pogo

Regarding sniping -- for me it is about the tension of Super, Duper FAT Tuesday...we are just hours away. When I last checked, HRC was leading by enough in Calif. and New York to make me feel comfy.

That is another thing that worries me about Obama. Nobody has really put it to him yet. Of course he has baggage. I wish someone would have thrown it out there so he had to deal with it in the primary before we hit the general election. He has gotten by to easy.

RELOAD NEW THREAD

Tuesday will be interesting.
I find Democratic Party delegate distribution formulas to be wacky at best.. I hope I spelled "wacky" correctly..don't think I ever wrote that word before..

Blonde wino,
I saw a pic of your governor hosting his old boss for a superbowl party. I think he shoulda grown that beard when he was campaigning. Looks good on him. Clinton was wearing a suit and tie, and for some reason it always creeps me out to see men wearing a suit an tie while watching a sporting event.

Tonight Dan Abrams agressively discussed MEDIA BIAS---using numbers from the Center for Media and Public Affairs.

He had on a panel of 3 trying to make a point that if Hillary wins tomorrow that she will get little recognition and Obama will get huge press.

The panel just talked around the point Dan was trying to make.

Dan Abrams is a man of great integrity!