Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Hi Craig...home from jury duty...I was actually thinking about this very thing driving to the courthouse.

Hey...I was first, but I haven't read the other posts to catch-up!

MSNBC is now reporting the new delegate count as :
838 Obama
834 Clinton.
What happened???

Post from last thread:

Interesting statistics from last night: Obama won all of the caucuses. Thus far, Obama has won all of the caucuses minus Nevada. States holding primary elections the "score" is 10 for Clinton and 8 for Obama.

DND mentioned that he didn't think the Obama caucus win in Colorado was particularly significant. Why is that DND? What do you think Craig?

The statistics I just posted point to the reason why HRC doesn't support caucuses in FL or MI. If the DNC is really interested in full participation they should support a new election.

where can you find the true delegate count? The counts are all over the place. which one is correct

nannymm----Looks like Brian has escaped to work. Will catch him when he returns. Will save comments unti then.

Blue....
I didn't mean your question...... any question is a legitimate quest for understanding.....
but to suggest that someone doesn't "get it" when others disagree with an opinion is to imply that the other person might be too stupid to get your point.....

I don't think anyone here is stupid.....
and despite Brian's hazy memory of something I once supposedly said to him.... I have never called anyone here stupid.....

Craig.... you've been saying all along that Florida would be important to the Dems..... you are a visionary!......

Gidget | February 6, 2008 1:18 PM
cbs has 974 to 905
cnn has 820 to 728

I think we need to just watch until they do the math.

I believe this most likely will come down to Florida and Michigan. And I do not think the Spring Caucus thing will work as most of the states have already voted and how fair will that look? It will really tear the party up. Since they went ahead an voted anyway (and wanted to do so early), they just need to penalize them by delegate count not erasure. I mean who really wants Florida to have yet another vote? I bet they will compromise on the number of delegates. In hindsight, BO should have placed his name on the ballot anyway in Michigan. Maybe they will just redo the Michigan thing...split thinking again.

I still have to find out who won New Mexico. I am really wondering where the Edwards vote went nationally.

repost from last thread:

Bear, fear not - I just went to the major population centers to see which county they were in. I live to serve. Hint - invest in Visine.

Yes, jamie, he is.

For those of you (Brian) who try to bash Hillary because she didn't kick his ass out and think the voters won't vote for her because she's still married to him, I'd suggest you check out his popularity numbers - Gallup has and finds him pretty popular. http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/565763/the_bill_clinton_effect.html

http://www.gallup.com/search/default.aspx?q=bill+clinton&s=

Bill worshippers?? RFLMAO. We Hillary supporters just don't hold Bill's indiscretions from more than a decade ago against her. Get a fu*king grip.

GAK, your 12:51 post is IMHO right on the mark.

I think Florida and Michigan have different circumstances.

Florida is holding caucuses to elect the delegates but they consider the 1/29 vote to be binding.

Michigan is a much different situation and could have easily been avoided whereas in Florida the Democrats were just along for the ride. IMO, Democrats in Florida are going to be pretty angry if the delegates are not seated given the assurances from Dean and Pelosi. Of course if you are whistling past Dixie and have abandoned the fifty state strategy maybe you don't care anymore.

"DND mentioned that he didn't think the Obama caucus win in Colorado was particularly significant. Why is that DND? What do you think Craig?" -- Posted by: eprof2

it's not that caucuses like Colorado are unimportant, eprof2, it's just that for Obama to impress and win over more of the 800 or so superdelegates (party big wigs who could end up deciding this thing), he's got to show muscle in a diverse and populous primary. for instance, winning a sizable margin of the popular vote in Ohio, Texas or Pennsylania could get the attention of enough superdelegates to put him over the top

repost from previous thread. You folks are moving faster than I can write.

I listened to some of Obama's speech last night. I loved his story about his first experience with community organizing. It was dead on true. Been there ,done that and I've got a draw full of T shirts. His story could be my story. I took a 3 week vacation and worked a local neighborhood. Knocked on doors, passed out flyers , talked to people and got to know them on a first name basis. Then we had the organizing meeting. Nobody showed up.
Now up to this point anybody can be an organizer. It is the next step that proves who you are.
There is nothing like the total rejection you feel when you are setting in that empty room with unopen cans of soda and a stack of snacks that no one has touched.

So what do you do?

Do you quit?
Or do you get up the next morning and come up with another idea and keep beating your head against that wall.

The rest Obama' speech had the standard political boiler plate. I don't even remember it. I just remember our seperate but shared moment when we looked out a window, shook our heads and said "WTF do I do now?"

I could have voted for him just for that.

Jack

If she's nominated maybe HRC will select UNcommitted as a running mate, seems 'UN' gave her a good race in MI.

"for the two states to begin anew and hold party caucuses in the spring. But the Clinton campaign has labored to rally state officials in Florida and Michigan to avoid such a move."

Yeah that sounds like someone who honestly and fairly supports voting rights.

L-in-W-
The SF Chronicle is reporting
Barack Obama 673
Hillary Rodham Clinton 784

MSNBC is the only place I can find BO ahead...
suspicious.....hmmm.

MSNBC is the only place I can find BO ahead...
suspicious.....hmmm.

They must use Karl Rove's math.

Here's my bet, and suggestion - seat and award FL delegates in proportion to the outcome of the primary - no one campaigned there, so no one is prejudiced by doing that. Let Michigan hold a caucus or primary and seat and award delegates based on the outcome. Obama removed his name from the ballot (Why I'll never know) so it would be unfair to award those delegates to Hillary.

BW, here's CNN's report of NM as of about an hour and 1/2 ago - Obama - 49%, Hillary 48% (Reflects significant rounding error) with Obama holding a 71 vote advantage out of about 130,000 votes cast. 98% of the vote reported.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#NM

Chairman Duncan of the Republican party just laid out the Talking Points against the Dem in the general:

Can Hillary Clinton Be Trusted?

Is Barrack Obama ready for the responsibility of Commander In Chief?

If those are actually going to be their main talking points, then I would rather fight with a "trust" issue than with an "incompetent: one.

As opposed to obama who went to Florida in sept and said he would support seating the delegation.
But has changed his mind since he didn't win.

Obama Motto
"If I didn't win it was either rigged or racist"
or my personal favorite, the early voters are stupid.

KGC-
Re: Karl Rove Math-
Even FOX is reporting

Hillary Clinton 845

Barack Obama 765

Or Bush's "fuzzy math" remember that one?

The delegate thing is not standard on any of the major web sites. Now CNN has 811 to 720.............I think they are all trigger happy.

Craig, I saw Dean on MSNBC, and then on CNN. His talking points got smoother for the latter. I think he was on Matthew, where he tried to get Dean to say that it wasn't fair to seat the delegates.

I read somewhere that the leading candidate may seat the delegates. What is your take on that?

Anyone who believes anything from BONBC regarding delegate count has been asleep through a week of blogs. We might need to check the family truckster for CO emmissions. The CNN delegate count seems to be accurate.

Geez...I live here and can't find any results, but it looks like BR did get less votes that JE. What was final vote in New Mexico?

Agreed, Craig, but my question wants to get to the bottom of what's going on in caucuses that's different from elections. My suspicion is, having gone to more than one caucus in WA state, is that only the truly committed, with time and money and envelope stuffing, are attending the caucuses, woefully under-representive of the population as a whole, whereas the general electorate can more easily go to an election polling place, cast their ballot, and leave feeling like they've done their civic duty.

Yep, even Huffington(GObama)Post's live delegate says Clinton's delegate lead is 79.

eprof2,
"DND mentioned that he didn't think the Obama caucus win in Colorado was particularly significant. Why is that DND?"

My point was that as Colorado has a closed caucus, it's not necessarily representative of a state that has a large number of independents and independent minded people in each party.

Probably my bias against caucus' is showing.

Here's what is significant: the Democrats had about twice the number of caucus goers as the Republicans. Of those who attended Democratic caucus' two thirds went for Obama. Colorado has a significant Hispanic population. Colorado was Hispanic before Colorado was a territory.

Had Colorado had a primary rather than a caucus, we'd have a better feel for how the voters in the state lean.

eprof2,
I meant to write what you said in your 2:02 post.

BW, click on the link in my 1:52 p.m. post for the NM results. You're right about BR getting fewer vores than JE, by a bit more than half.

Blond

With 98% reporting NM is

Clinton 65,293 49% 0
reporting
Obama 65,271 48% 0
Edwards 2,014 2% 0
Richardson 1,171 1% 0

Didn't Richards get out before Edwards? That might explain the differences in totals if NM has early voting?

hey dnd,

One of our long timers who is not here often is asking if you would write.

The only way I could think of is my email chefstonesheila at gee mail dot com

If you want to find out, let me know and I will help with this transistion. lol ;0)

Thanks, Pogo

Here is CNN delegate info

http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/scorecard/#D

Craig,

You probably can't say this to Dan on air, but it would be nice if you tell him that we appreciate him calling out the media for their blatant bias. (But) it is extremely obvious that the avoids talking about his own network, who are the worst abusers!

I suppose he really can't call out his own network. Just let him know that when he says "the media", we know he means his own network too, and we understand that he can't call them out but it's in his mind when he's doing it.

I never tune to faux snooze but between cnn and msnbc, msnbc is just horrible.. i mean last night they were just horrible. Right before commerical Joe S was reading a statement that the Hillary campaign released and when he was done, he burst out laughing. You could hear them all laugh as they went to commercial.

I sent msnbc numerous emails last night but in this particular one I said they should all be fired. The bias and unprofessionalism of Chris, Keith, Joe, (who else?), guest Howard, they were all dispicable.

Sad to say, this tornado disaster is taking some of the media off their intended game today of smearing Hillary.

New Mexico...update two minutes ago

Clinton 66,173 49% 0 98%
reporting
Obama 65,963 48% 0
Edwards 2,025 2% 0
Richardson 1,181 1% 0
Uncommitted 402 0% 0
Full New Mexico Democratic Exit Poll »Democratic vote by GenderDemocratic vote by Age44%
56%
8%
18%
38%
36%


Male Female 18-29 30-44 45-59 60+

I think the whole caucus concept should be thrown out. In Kansas AND Colorado, they only went to caucuses so they could throw the cost on the parties and counties. And as I said, the ones in Kansas were phoney as a three dollar bill. Pre-determined by party regulars. Plus, I read a few blog reports about how the caucuses can be intimidating for many --that ain't the American way.....

MSNBC is now reporting the new delegate count as :
838 Obama
834 Clinton.
What happened???

Posted by: Gidget | February 6, 2008 1:18 PM

Yes and they keep emphasizing that "Obama leads!"

but their figures appear to be inaccurate. Of course the #'s will change but cnn is usually correct and their delegate count, whether you include super delegates or not, have Hillary on top.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/scorecard/#D

ah the spin of the msm to always put Obama in a good light.

"I read somewhere that the leading candidate may seat the delegates. What is your take on that?" Posted by: Linda-in-Wiscosnin

yes, a candidate who controls a majority of the convention delegates can seat them or not at their will (for instance, if Obama gets to the convention with a slim majority and seating Florida/Michigan would switch the victory to Clinton, obviously he would choose to shut out those states) -- but if both candidates are short of a controlling majority at convention time, that would trigger a credentials cmte fight unless some other resolution is found

On a lighter note - Mellencamp isn't amused at McCain using his songs.

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2008/02/04/mellencamp-asks-mccain-to-stop-using-tunes/

Shelia,
the gmail is in the gmail ;)

Blonde-
I just read that New Mexico has 16,870 provisional
ballots that they didn't start counting until 2:00 PM (EST)
so I don't think those numbers are in the totals yet.
~G

dnd Sheila is on the road driving through a snow storm.

Just emailed the results to my sis and there were two emails waiting -- one from Howard Dean and one from Hillary -- mo' money.

HD talking about McBush. I am just feel that McBush is not going to make it to election time...like I stated yesterday if it is a McBush/Huckster ticket

soon-to-be flatliner and a flat brain

Just can't shake that feeling.

"Agreed, Craig, but my question wants to get to the bottom of what's going on in caucuses that's different from elections." -- eprof2

-- for all the reasons you go on to cite, eprof2, many party regulars view caucuses as merely measurements of organizing strength/depth of support, etc.

big-state primaries measure appeal across the surface, and both skill sets are needed for a nominee to succeed in November

Yeah that sounds like someone who honestly and fairly supports voting rights.

Posted by: Rezdog | February 6, 2008 1:50 PM

How about fairness and honesty in the facts surrounding Fla and Mich?

Long before we knew who would come out on top in those states, all the party talking heads in those states said they were sure they'd be seated at the convention and teh Dem party wouldn't risk alienating so many (millions) of voters. Fla could swing Dem which is huge for 2008.. the party can't risk angering Fla voters.. and they are angry they may be ignored.

A re vote is a JOKE! on every level. Hillary won Fla, time for people to swallow the truth.

Back a couple months ago there was a statement made by Nancy Pelosi regarding this. Dean too. that their authority ends when the doors to the convention open, and that who ever was in the lead was highly likely to seat the delegates from those 2 states, that alienating people in those states would be a disaster for the dem party.

The dem party f'd up badly in such a harsh penalty, now they must swollow their stupidity and do what's fair, and that's to seat those delegates. If I lived in florida where Hillary got more than 800,000 votes, more than any candidate of either party in any state (at the time), I would be infuriated too if my party chose to ignore those votes.

BONBC...biggest case of denial I have seen since Faux News

I believe, I understand the grief cycle guys, but loss is like that , I suppose. Eventually they will get to acceptance. Or maybe not....didn't Tweetie have a life size photo Grandma Obama sitting in chair next to him yesterday.

Mr. Hardballs!

Thanks for putting a reality check on caucas and primary. I was not understanding until now.

Looks like this year is the year the Baby Boomers get a great taste of a full on everything counts election.

Sheila you made it home safely! I was worried

I think that Hillary taking care of business in Mich. and Florida was just good sound political insight. Why would the candidates or the dem party want to turn off support in to important states like those----Florida in particular.

Obama not taking these states seriously shows poor judgement on his part as well as political immaturity.

If he gets the nomination in the fall he and the democratic party should thank Clinton for holding some good will in these states.

Oh Sorry Brian,

I got home and unpacked the SUV. now I am procrastinating....have to get the house ready for my travel back down to PB.....

Thank you Bill Maher for giving me a RFLMAO moment.

http://www.rollingstone.com/photos/gallery/17538811/dickheads_of_the_year

Patsi, I agree - scrap the caucus system - it is ridiculous. Reminds me of village stonings. In all seriousness, I think it is undemocratic and runs counter to the concepts of secret ballot and one person, one vote.

Vacancy rate of homes highest in more than 40 years.

AVerages are 4 - 5%, but some cities are over 10%

If you have money, now is the time to go house hunting.

new obama whiner oops I mean email is blasting the clinton years.

ohhh the whining he does,

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/obama_directly_attacks_bills_p.php

New Mexico went to a caucus format in 2004. And unlike the Iowa caucus, it is simply a paper ballot. Again, the New Mexico dems ave a really crappy ground game....it was obvious in 2004.

SUV? Hold on I'm calling Al Gore and turning you in!

Craig puts up an interesting rationale for the caucus, but I've got to agree with Patsi and pogo. This is no way to select candidates for president.

The Mahar description of George Bush is a thing of beauty:

Come on, no list of assholes and fuck-ups could be complete without the Dipshit in Chief. Who will tell this president what everyone but him already knows? The theory of evolution. And the times tables. And where the sun goes at night. And that Iraq is going to be three different countries. And that everyone hates us and we've run our military into the ground and the Taliban is back and we still haven't caught bin Laden and the economy is tanking and we wasted eight years blowing the oil companies while the Earth is melting. We had a pretty nice house when this Cat in the Hat of presidents came in and made the mess of all time. And who's going to clean it all up — Rudy Giuliani?

I agree with you Craig---

Obama can't go against the inclusion of Mich. and Florida because he can't appear to want to disinfranchise voters in these states. If he did keep the delegates out and win the nomination that way------would they support him in the fall or would they still be angry and vote McCain?

Latest from CNN

http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/candidates/

jamie - the housing market is a near disaster, but I'd only go house hunting if I thought the housing market has hit bottom - and I don't. I'd wait until the first month that reports of housing market rebound surface, then I'd wait another month to see if it holds.

Little Barry may find that the "party insiders" who hold superdelegate status will make up their own minds, and don't really care what a greenhorn on the national stage thinks of the system. Now how's this go? get rid of Florida, Michigan, and superdelegates and we can win if we have more pledged delegates going into the convention? Let's see if he sings the same tune if Hillary has more pledged delegates in August. Any bets on that one?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/06/obama-calls-out-super-del_n_85339.html

I watched some of the returns last night with the neighbors. She's for Hillary, he's for Obama and their daughter, who will be eligible to vote is seriously for Obama. Their daughter, who is really bright, told me that her generation, who has largely been criticized for not being engaged is now finally engaged and it's primarily because of Obama.

I asked her what would happen if Obama lost. She told me her generation would once again feel disaffected and that the big money machines control everything. I told her of the same feelings I felt when I was her age and people voted for Nixon over McGovern, and encouraged her to stay engaged. She told me that her generation's payback will be when all us boomers are unable to retire and forced to work at Wal*Mart since social security and medicade will be bankrupt and that they wouldn't bail us out.

I told you she was smart!

Who keeps the OFFICIAL count of the delegates?

haha, good one dnd.

Pogo,

Oh I know it is going lower even if it isn't likely to ever get low enough for me, but I'm always mindful of the old dictate: Buy land they aren't making any more of it.

Before the fall began I saw that the home I bought in 1964 for 21,900 sold for 500,000 last year. Unfortunately for me, the ex sold it for 30,000 and somehow neglected to give me half. drat!

"Who keeps the OFFICIAL count of the delegates?" --Posted by: truebeliever

that's the fun of this thing, truebeliever -- there really is no OFFICIAL count until the first ballot in Denver, or the second, or the third, or .......

Brian,
"haha, good one dnd."

I don't think it's funny. She may be on to something that us boomers should be concerned about.

That said, I think it's important to keep the young engaged. Us old coots may think they're a bunch of dreamers, but fresh, untainted ideas are a good thing. Plus they're the one's who will be deciding to put us in the old folks home...

dnd lolol I love a smart youngen.

I find my own son to be more engaged too. He said it was time to kick us all to the curb and start again before we REALLY screw it up.

Move over moms and pops. ;0)

dnd

It used to be called the generation gap.

Much of what is going on here, has been going on since the beginning of time...

Are we really any different than our ancestors? We just have more technology. And I can tell you nothing ages me faster than technology.

Craig---

thank you for the answer? Great so we have to listen to all these speculations and opinions until then.

Well that just makes me think that Clinton is even smarter for staying with Mich and Florida.

Craig thanks for the reply about seating delegates. I don't feel that Obama would be willing to lose MI & FL in the general. On-the-hand, he may lose if they are seated.

Why isn't there a keeper of the delegates?

We are having a major snow storm up here today.........no school, so no tutoring for me..........so, I get to play on the computer today.

jamie, "It's the land, Katie Scarlett." They may not be making more of it, but they are putting more of it out there for sale so be patient. It may even get low enough for you. Been on both sides of the story - bought one house that sold for exactly what I bought it for five years before (of course, with commission, I made less than I paid for it but got the tax advantage of the interest deduction for those 5 years - probably a wash) and had one once that sold for 20% more than I bought it for 4 MONTHS before. And I know people who have done much better and much worse than I. Nutty markets.

If Obama is so inspiring, (which even though I'm for Clinton I do find him quite inspiring) Don't you think that should he find himself short on delegates and she wins the election, that it would be his responsibility to the party to see that his voters stay engaged?

A "take my ball and go home attitude would be quite unbecoming of any nominee

"The Fix" Winners and Losers column is interesting.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/

trueleliever -- pledged delegates are held to voting for the candidates they are sent to represent,(but anything goes if no one wins on the first ballot) -- so the numbers of pledged delegates in each state will be fairly hard (and officially tabulated by each state's elections office). un-pledged superdelegates are a wild card, can do whatever they like

True,

I'd expect nothing less from Both Candidates.

Why can't BONBC and Faux News rumble like this??

http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/TV/02/06/tv.conan.stewart.colbert.ap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

"If Obama is so inspiring, (which even though I'm for Clinton I do find him quite inspiring)" truebeliever

I find him reflecting a cult leader. Look at your major cults, church leaders, and horrible state leaders of history. The chanting really scares me. The Beatles had the same affect on the young. Some just find it easier to have someone to think for them, than to think for themselves; like the high school clicks!! Brainwashing doesn't care about your age, education, background, gender or racial aspects.

Matthew's just said that if Hillary won, his followers would be heart broken, and she would have to put him on the ticket. IMO that is the worse thing she could do.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/16/opinion/16krugman.html?pagewanted=all

the myth of the social security insolvency.
If that is the attitude and understanding of young people supporting Obama, then there is even less reason to respect their opinion.

having done the caveats, here's what i'm using to watch delegates:

our own at CQ; http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?parm1=104

and AP's tracker: http://hosted.ap.org/specials/interactives/campaign_plus/delegate_tracker/

Obama a cult leader, absurd statement.

In regards to Brian's thrashing comments about Bill's sexcapade in the last threads.

It just amazes my that the world's super power would be so disconnected from issues of priority that they deemed it utmost important to ask the President if he had sex with ML.

We spent years and what $52 million publicly humiliating, whipping and crucifying our President for lieing about infedelity.

While the Moral Minders were minding Bill Clintons moral---Osama bin Laden was planning to attack the Twin Towers! The guy was snickering at us with the rest of the world.

Are we American just a bunch of Moral Minding Morons!

I know this if I was the President and I was publicly asked about my sex life----I AM GOING TO LIE.

KC I do believe dnd was sharing with us one light hearted conversation he was having with a teenager. Not explaining the attitude of an entire generation. Not every remark requires a rebuttal.

Matt Man on one of my favorite blogs came up with this description of the Dem candidates:

Obama won more states, and Hillary Clinton won the big states. Hillary “Hated By People, Who Don’t Know Why” Clinton is currently up by a mere 100 delegates or so on Barack “The Middle Class Messiah” Obama.

They why are you rebutting?

Chickadee,

The right wing will never admit this publicly, but I am convinced that the only reason they attacked Bill Clinton is because he had a penchant for chasing some dogs. Gennifer Flowers and Paula Corbin Jones were butt ugly. They didn't like Monica because she was fat. If he was caught with a supermodel, or with any kind of prostitute, (gay/straight), he would have met Republican standards for infidelity and would thus have been in the clear.

The Catholic church was upset with him because he wasn't going after young boys.

Apparently dnd does not agree with you

"I don't think it's funny. She may be on to something that us boomers should be concerned about.

That said, I think it's important to keep the young engaged. Us old coots may think they're a bunch of dreamers, but fresh, untainted ideas are a good thing. Plus they're the one's who will be deciding to put us in the old folks home...

Posted by: dnd | February 6, 2008 2:56 PM"

boomers the most over insured generation ever
more homehealth care insurance and more insurance
for bridge care etc. No one is counting on some little snot to make their decisions for them

Hi Truebeliever... I think Obama will be a player even if he doesn't get the nomination. And I think most of his supporters would go with the Democratic nominee. Not everyone though. If Obama gets the nomination, I won't vote for him (and that's the first time I've ever felt this way). I plugged my nose and voted for Dukakis and again for Kerry. I could explain my reasons, but it doesn't matter. I don't have any illusions that it would matter what I vote anyway; I'm just one person. I am also sure that my viewpoint would not be highly indicative of those who call themselves Democrats. Most will eventually stand up for the nominee.

L in W

Well since I don't see Obama inviting us to any Kool-aid parties or telling us that the aliens are coming to get us I think we are probably ok.

I think I understand what you are talking about-----someone being so charismatic that he could lead us down the wrong road and make us think that it is good for us.

But isn't that what Bush has done for 7 years. I don't see him as cult leader. He isn't smart enough. People are just paying more attention now.

KC I took his remark with a tongue in cheek quality.

I am from FL, have always been a strong Democrat and will be more than a liitle annoyed if we are not seated, most Floridians feel the same way. If the Dems want to win in Nov, they better start paying attention to us.

Bear LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!! You know there is a movement of people who seem to specifically dig chubby men and women. And there is a group that want to get fat. I never understood that. My middle name is DIET... grrr. :)

EuroTom commented to Brian--"They why are you rebutting"?

Some people like to be controlling crazymakers.

I am behind the times, what are kool-aid parties? Are we talking about a Jonestown love fest?

KGC,
"No one is counting on some little snot to make their decisions for them"

Those little snots will soon be in charge of your health care. Lotsa luck if you call them little snots...

Bear ----that's correct Clinton didn't stoop to the level of the Moral Minders!

Dnd I agree with you,

Those little snots are the ones fighting the war.

Elaine in Tampa

I feel your pain...and I feel the "uniter" (read BO) needs to show us how ready he is to unite the dem party by demanding all the delegates should be allowed in at the convention. Again, I hate seeing the dem party torn-up when we need to focus on November and beating the repugs.

And I know BO brags about uniting independents and republicans....just not his own party.

Youth should be embraced, not scorned.

"I find him reflecting a cult leader."
roflmao

Thx Linda, I needed a good laugh over lunch!

http://www.elderlifeplanning.com/idi/geriatrc.htm

no little snot will be in charge of my health care decisions.

and a lot of elderlaw is protecting seniors from the abuse of those little snots.

KGC,

I don't like to make personal missives but you need to get a fistful of Pamprin and chill the F out. Not all baby boomers are insured up the wazoo as you claim. If that were the case, you wouldn't see all these blue hairs working part time jobs after they retire in order to get food enough money to cover the medications and other expenses.

I wonder how you expect people to take your opinions seriously when all you do is act like a pissed off monkey, throwing handfuls of your shit at passersby at the zoo...

All you heard in the @#$@ 2000 election were the issues of Social Security. It may be solvent when your ass kicks but to the younger folks out there, especially considering the way these F-ing Mensas screwed up our economy, its a real prospect it won't exist. You do realize that in 20 years, the most of the federal budget could be consumed by paying just the interest on the federal debt? That won't leave room for money for tic tacs, let alone anything else...

Yes, Obama has been more of a divisive candidate the last few days in my eyes. He does need to show some unity.

Clinton loaned herself 5 million bucks! OUCH!

All you heard in the @#$@ 2000 election were the issues of Social Security. It may be solvent when your ass kicks but to the younger folks out there, especially considering the way these F-ing Mensas screwed up our economy, its a real prospect it won't exist. You do realize that in 20 years, the most of the federal budget could be consumed by paying just the interest on the federal debt? That won't leave room for money for tic tacs, let alone anything else...

that;s bullshit - that's all you heard from Republicans not democrats. get a grip.

Try facts

and further, take a moment to figure out how much you paid into Social security in your bitter lifetime and then figure out how long it will take to cash those checks at $1500...I doubt it will be more than 10 years...odd are you will live 10 years beyond that point...you better pray the snot nose kids keep working to support your ass...

Truebeliever....

Sorry, I'm feeling the Unity....

and further, take a moment to figure out how much you paid into Social security in your bitter lifetime and then figure out how long it will take to cash those checks at $1500
I have it we all get it in the mail every year
and it will be quite a while before I get out everything I paid in ...

Brain in NYC

Be careful about embracing the youth under the age of 18...you might get arrested.

I will feel more unity when I find out that he has stopped saying that Hillary's supporters would support him, but that it would not be the other way around. I have heard him say that several times.

HEY YOU LITTLE SNOTS! GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!

Sheila'

Thanks for the support for FL.. We dems do have a penchant for screwing up our chances. BO9the Uniter) is starting to show his real self and the fellow has some teeth.

At least that is what he comments have meant to me

HEY YOU LITTLE SNOTS! GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!

Posted by: dnd | February 6, 2008 3:52 PM

I'm thinking of having a yard sign made.

KGC,

You are an idiot if you forget all the ridicule that Al Gore took because of the Social Security lock box. You have clearly taken the Bush administrations orwellian course on revisionist history.

I swear to god it is easier to reason with a Klansman with a torch in his hand than it is with you...how I long for the days of Fritz...he was vile and rude yet he was much less bitter than you.

I don't know what your source of bitterness is but I suggest you take a day off your high horse and go volunteer to help the some homeless veterans. They took a bullet and they were willing to die for their country. They have been ignored since that service and they are less bitter than you...

Obama continues with his velvet tongue to get away with saying anything he wants to say, I agree that he says he can win her voters but he doesn't thinke she can win his supportes. NOOOO not if he is unwilling to encourage them to support her.

Buchana siad it last night there is a underlying sexism and rascism... Why cant we deal with this.

Elaine, I am of the opinion that Howie's turning the issue over to a credentials committee not controled by him allows the party to fix it and preserve what little face Howie still has. I said when he became party chair that it was a mistake and he wasn fit for the position . I was right and believe that the ridiculous overreaching by trying to strip FL and MI of thier delegates, along with his bowing to pressure to preserve the undue influence IA & NH party officials demand in the nominating process that in a rational world would leave them as bit players without lines confirmed my position re: Howie as party chair being a huge mistake (rivalled only by making Harry Reid the Senate Majority Leader).

Bear....get a mirror...look at it...now you see who sounds very bitter.

All Al Gore was doing was responding to the Bush plan

if anyone needs to get a grip it's you
http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Al_Gore_Social_Security.htm

This just in....BO's next rally is being held in Waco.

I've heard it all

kc, you can borrow that sign from McCain.

elaine--

that's what I mean. That is what I have noticed in the past few days. Me-- I am a democrat , I will vote for our candidate in the fall----but alot of people may not feel that way if they are offended too much

You are on target pogo. I am a strong supporter of HRC, but if BO gets the nomination, we should push her for Senate Majority Leader. It would mean the Messiah president would have to deal with her and we might get a decent health Care Plan, a reasoned withdrawal from Iraq, a stimulus package that meets the needs of the Americans in trouble and she would be the main mediator and conciliatory force in the Senate.

Youth should be embraced, not scorned.

Posted by: Brian In NYC | February 6, 2008 3:42 PM

Hmmmm... sounds like a NAMBLA outreached statement.

Harry Reid----

now there is a nutless wonder

Bear, isn't it so that Social Security would be solvent if the damn politicians didn't raid the fund for other purposes?

Elain

I do have to admit , when it comes to sexism and racism Buchanan is an expert. ;-0

Jack

I have been talking to some serious party leaders in FL, they are disgusted with HD and the party establishment.

It is too bad, but we have been badly demeaned, ignored and stuffed in a corner. They robbed Floridians of their right to be part of a possible historic election.

Speaking of interesting political plays.. like him or not, John McCain and his supporters really did a number on Romney who was expecting to win in WV (?) and when the McCain people realized they weren't going to win, they switched over to Huckabee. Dirty as hell politics, but there was some definite savvy in that decision.

BO was just on CNN saying the same thing again about how he will get Hillary's vote. Well not mine.

Hillary is having a news conference w/in the hour.

Elaine--

I believe it will all end up ok. Smarter heads will prevail. Tell them to hang in there.

I knew Hillary had a lot common with Romney, but this 5 million dollar loan really is the icing on the cake. No wonder I got two fund raising emails from her today.

Super-delegates, have been around since 1972(?), 36 years or so. Does Obama wants to do away with them? or does he want to control them?

Whatever is good for the Obama.

unlikely_burrito (I love your name and I have a fine wine to go with your name)

BO doesn't deal with anything last century....and I think his dissing of the past has backed him into a corner.

I know Brain and Warren tell me how brilliant he is (read the book), but to me he really seem stupid by his stance. Millenium Boy ignores the past.

truebeliever,
we have been patient, we have no tother choice. Until recently I have beleived that all would end up ok, I am concerned as BO gets more strength FL loses at the convention. Then all will come running for money. I maxxed out this time, thye willl not be getting my dough.

I agree with unlikely_burrito that super delegates may end up being in trouble also.

Brian still whining about Hillary??? sheesh.. Linda I agree with you.. BHO will not have my vote either if he gets the nomination.

Well i don't think any state should have a monopoly of "first vote" in the Presidential primary, like Iowa and NH have. It's just not democratic. And states that want an earlier role in the process should not be penalized... at least the people of those states should not be penalized. It's late, so I don't know if this made total sense.

And I want everyone to know that I understand how sensitive we all are and by my use of "boy" as in Millenium Boy was not a racial slur. It was intended to show his youthfulness and inexperience. Perhaps, Millenium Juvenile would have been a better moniker.

Tom seriously please stop trying to engage me, I thought I made myself very clear yesterday, I don't engage with racists.

Blonde wino...
I took a short vacation from the blog just as you came barreling on.....
I want to say "Howdy"..... I'm in NH.... have been to NM several times and absolutely love your state....

I also love wine and was curious what your favorite(s) is/are.....

BJ..... are you the BJ from around Las Vegas that was on this blog when Craig first started it?...

and Obama has yet to state that people who don't vote for him are not racist as the media tends to suggest..... this one thing still upsets me.....

well... that... and the fact that his wife is beginning to get under my skin....

GO DEMOCRATS!

Hmmmm...........

Super-delegates, have been around since 1972(?), 36 years or so. Does Obama wants to do away with them? or does he want to control them?

Whatever is good for the Obama.

Posted by: unlikely_burrito | February 6, 2008 4:09 PM

I can't find it anywhere, where OBama wants to get rid of Super Delegates.

can you provide your source please?

BONBC discussing dem ballot problems....

EuroTom....
I'm from NH and even I have to agree with you about our insistence on going first..... it's not about democracy.... it's about $$$$$.....
this state makes a lot of money going first.... but it's time for the gravy train to end and let other states have an early say.....

the one thing we may all be able to agree upon is that the system we use to get candidates nominated by the parties appears to be broken....

What a mess. The DNC should step up now! and make it clear what is going to be done with Michigan and Florida, and they should educate the public about the Super- Delegates.

This will deflect it from becoming a issue that OBAMA-boy pouts about to his loyal followers. If OB makes this an issue, and the DNC doesn't take control the party in-fighting will reach historic levels.

I can see the OB camp blaming the DNC rules on the Clinton Machine....and all the baby-Obama's will throw little fits.

RR

My most favorite wine in the world is Australian Shiraz from the Barossa Valley or McLaren Vale -- best old vine. It is part of my health care program.

My second most favorite is a New Zealand Pinot Noir -- north island.

And they are best drunk in New Mexico...which reminds me I need to check the results again.

unlikely_burrito

Again can you post your source that Obama is against Super Delegates?

Unless you do, I will consider you a Republican Troll... ;0)

Before some of you partisans out there get too stupid.
A reminder of what this election is about.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/26569.html

I never thought in my life time we would talk about torture being the official policy of this nation.

Jack

brian, for your pea-sized brain, let me make myself clear. I am not a racist. You are a woman hater though. Was it Jamie or Patsi who suggested that trying to explain sexist attitudes to you would be like trying to explain anti-semitism to Hitler?

You can label me a racist, but in the 80's I was EVERY sunday protesting in front of the Seattle "honorary" consulate for South Africa. The demand: end apartheid. It wasn't easy; it wasn't fun... but it was worth doing. On the world scale I don't thing there is a leader who tops the work Nelson Mandela has done to bring hope and a new beginning to the majority blacks in South Africa. I remember and cherish the day that Mandela was finally released from prison... we were doing labor history presentations and my best friend Jacque did a report on a black woman union leader and how she said "and I think it's significant that I do this report on the day Nelson Mandela was released from prison". She and I were totally in tears. We never believed it would happen and we certainly didn't imagine he would go on to become the country's president.

You can call me "racist" all you want Brian. If I had said Oprah "the female-dali-lama-wannabe" I don't think you'd have said a word. Sanctimonious pronouncements certainly seems to be your favourite way to attack those who don't bow to your opinions.

Shelia, it was a question.

Obama wins caucuses with Liberal activists in mostly Red States. This sytem should be scrapped. That is a sure ticket for an Obama November victory. Florida and Michigan will be counted and last night was a big loss for BO. I can point to so many things that reflect his poor judgment. NY Independents couldn't vote and would have gone for Hillary if allowed. Bill's popularity it quite high and Obama produced the black white issue that has caused him problems nationally.

Biggest problem is that people are growing tired with the vague plaititudes and borrowed rhetoric of BO. Economy and Healthcare seem to go for Hillary. Foreign Policy despite Iraq still favors a more centrist view on a national stage. Immigration, education, vets and energy also trend towards Hillary. I expect Obama breaking his promise and going after Hillary on a personal level again. Hillary needs to watch Texas, Penn and Ohio and keep the pressure to include Florida and Michigan.

The writing is on the wall and the only reason that I say this is to counter the crap spilling from my TV. Some people I met want Hillary just to beat up the sexists, revisionaries, biased and unprofessional pundits and polsters (Zogby is a beaut) who have spouted non-stop for a year. They are the immovable force that should be bitch-slapped by the irresistable force of mainstream Democrats. And Democratic men aren't the liberated dudes they pretend to be. Many don't want a woman President, not a tough one at least. Perhaps if Jessica Simpson ran they might vote for her.

Thank you Burrito. ;0)

Forget about torture, WJ

I have real news...just in from David Shuster...Britiney is out!

Max Obama raised 32 million dollars last month. I wish people were so tired of what I have to say!

CIA director acknowledges use of waterboarding......

LOL Well Jack! its about darn time! I wonder if any of it will pulse the radar screen!

Sheila re: your phone call, looks like you spoke too soon.
:)

See you later.

"She told me that her generation's payback will be when all us boomers are unable to retire and forced to work at Wal*Mart since social security and medicade will be bankrupt and that they wouldn't bail us out."

I'm sure glad I raised my children to have a moral compass.

Maxtrue, you can see just from this forum that "democratic men aren't the liberated dudes they pretend to be". The breadth and scope of sexism from some of the top posting "stars" in here does confound me.

On the other hand, a lot of men posting here are feminists and they understand that gender politics is as legitimate and as important as any other quest for equality in a pretty unequal world.

RR

Burrito reminds me of one of the big fiesta's here in southern Ne Mexico...The Whole Enchilada Fiesta. We make a large enchilada (biggest in the world according to Guiness) and most of the town shows up to have a piece.

http://www.enchiladafiesta.com/

RR...Oh, that vibrating red pepper with the sombrero is "Twefie."

Brian:
I wonder how much of BO 32 million was from Oprah, the Kennedy's or Rezko's friends?

And I said, "I find him reflecting a cult leader." I was very careful with my wording. May I suggest you do your homework before you go outside to play?

"The right wing will never admit this publicly, but I am convinced that the only reason they attacked Bill Clinton is because he had a penchant for chasing some dogs. Gennifer Flowers and Paula Corbin Jones were butt ugly. They didn't like Monica because she was fat. If he was caught with a supermodel, or with any kind of prostitute, (gay/straight), he would have met Republican standards for infidelity and would thus have been in the clear.
The Catholic church was upset with him because he wasn't going after young boys."

Oh my GAWD! Bear I almost fell off my chair laughing.

Shelia,
i think peeps starting this line of ?? referring to this Huffpo article.