Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

"I hate the war......need some more money for it? " yep....tough sell.....

Maybe even more of a reason to vote for Nader...

waste of time like voting for McCain....just furthers the bush agenda.......democrats the only choice there is.

Well Before I go to work.

Even Clinton and Obama cannot be blamed for voting to support the troups when a LOON is in the White House and will not pull out no matter what.....

My Son and others would be caught in the middle and they know. For this, I am willing to wait for November 2008 to kicking the !@#$%^& out.

Have a great people

Ralph Nader on the charge that he is just a "spoiler"... tough stuff:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23321310#23320410

Ralph Nader on Barack Obama

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23321310#23320428

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/18349197/the_chicken_doves

Quietly, while Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have been inspiring Democrats everywhere with their rolling bitchfest, congressional superduo Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi have completed one of the most awesome political collapses since Neville Chamberlain. At long last, the Democratic leaders of Congress have publicly surrendered on the Iraq War, just one year after being swept into power with a firm mandate to end it.

Matt Taibbi

one more excerpt:
The story of how the Democrats finally betrayed the voters who handed them both houses of Congress a year ago is a depressing preview of what's to come if they win the White House. And if we don't pay attention to this sorry tale now, while there's still time to change our minds about whom to nominate, we might be stuck with this same bunch of spineless creeps for four more years. With no one but ourselves to blame.

Matt Taibbi, Rolling Stone

I think it's perfect - nobody can take a phony high road with this in people's faces saying they have nothing to do with the mess we're in, not McCain, not Hillary, not even 'Mr. I was opposed to the war, even though I wasn't there and was only running against freak show Alan Keyes, and I fell in line after getting there, and I said 'I wasn't in the senate at the time and can't say how I'd have voted..', and I totally ditched the Irananian National Guard vote 'cause I'm a giant pussy, but at least I have a penis Obama. - wow, guess that statement makes me an Atheist hugh?

This morning on Imus, Col. Jack Jacobs jumped with both feet on top of the Obama myth.

All popularity and no substance.

Sheila,

I suspect your son will not be re-enlisting?

Listened to Jack Jacobs on Imus this morning.

Never one to hold back his feelings, he indicated that Mr Obama is nothing more than an empty bag surrounded by a self-serving machine. He said that Obama has absolutely no knowledge of foreign affairs or the defense mechanism that serves to protect our country.

He opined that if he and McCain were the candidates, that it would be a most boring campaign with McCain most assuredly the winner.

In McCain's case, he thought the choice of VP running mate would be pivotal.

He was slightly more supportive of Mrs Clinton.

jack "road rage" jacobs astute political observer?

not so much.

He, econsmed, don''t badmouth Keys; his father was an Army NCO!

Sturgeone, it's nice hearing an intelligent person speaking in something other than code.

Well, this is what happens when the media get to decide for us who the nominees will be. They closed the door on Kucinich and Edwards, the 2 who might have gotten us out of this mess. And we waste our time talking about personalities and temperament and who leaked what. Talk about taking our eyes off the ball.

Would Obak's people have floated the photo of him in Somali garb? I know they are concerned about how some Americans might see it, but wouldn't now be (a) the best time to deal with it rather than the general and i(b) in a way that would take the air out of Hil'ry successfully slamming him all weekend, as well as deflating her SNL bounce?

If it wasn't Borama's folks, then maybe the GOP? I just think Hil'ry's people would see that was a pointless move.

Oh, and as for all of the poll numbers Willie & Mika were showing this morning, do we still believe in poll numbers or have they gone the way of the Easter Bunny?

Polls don't equate to a democratic mandate.

Flatus said that Jack J said, "...he indicated that Mr Obama is nothing more than an empty bag surrounded by a self-serving machine. He said that Obama has absolutely no knowledge of foreign affairs..."

And that, for all the world, sounds like W. I'm telling you, Obama is just Shrub 2.0.

Blue, whether Senator Clinton's behavior over the weekend was "successful" is way open for opinion. And there seem to be some who believe that the Clinton campaign has been surrepticiously using Drudge to distribute information for a while now.

Hillary Clinton Campaign Connection to Drudge Report Detailed by International Herald Tribune (NYT) in October of 2007

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/editorblog/054

Wasn't the last mid-term a mandate for change? Yep, the Dems were gonna show up for work every, single day & stop to the war-mongering Bush admin. Yep, they were gonna.

The original article from the International Herald Tribune:

The Drudge Report warms to the Clinton camp, or is it vice versa?

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/22/america/drudge.1-156891.php

Flatus - Keyes was an NCO too, No Chance Option.
I wonder if Mika is going to kick Jacobs in the shin next time he's on Morning Jo - or did he move on to something above morning cartoon shows?

Each candidate will do whatever it takes to win if they want it bad enough. Wait till October and see what crap comes out of whatever candidate is trailing in the polls. It mabe a lot worse than what's going on now.

colleen - I don't doubt that all media outlets are used & abused by all parties. However, I'm just not sure that Barak didn't have more to gain by this after Hil'ry called his flyer a dirty, political trick.

I am totally fed up with politics... REALLY... I have left the democratic party and I am going to vote for Nader in November... and I don't care if it matters or not. One vote doesn't make hardly a fucking difference anyway and I've grown tired to all the "tit for tat" bullshit online (not just here). I just am not going to support a candidate who is presented as the new messiah and APPARENTLY walks on water... I am off for a well deserved nap.

NADER 2008

If Obama was trailing he would be going after Hillary with everything he had, that's the way the game is played. What would you do if you were them and running for President?

Flatus,

Col. Jack Jacobs, being a CMH recipient, said he would much rather see a McCain-Hillary election than McCain-Obama election. Although not a news reporter Jacobs commands a lot of respect and his words are taken very seriously by the MSM. All Obama is, is an empty box wrapped up in pretty paper. A lot of people I am afraid are going to be so very disappointed when that pretty paper is removed, the box is finally opened, and find the box empty.

I just find it incredible how so many Ds and Indies are blindly following this Obama parade. Based on what? Certainly not based on experience, or substance to back-up his campaign rhetoric of endless promises, or any sense of economics, national security. Here is my hope and change. I hope the D's get some sense real quick and change over to HRC.

It sure helps your chances if you got the press on your side.

Craig....
unfortunately..... you're right..... the Democrats cannot really take the high road on the moneys appropriated for the Iraq War.... no matter how they try to spin it....

as I see it..... the general election is shaping up to be....

Oh Hosanna vs the Old Fart

It's been getting bad for years, but this season has been so horrid that a truism is really thrown in your face.

Politicians are sold exactly like soap and the commentators and spokespeople are the salespeople in the campaign.

Just think of Barack Obama as a new box of Cheer.

I hope HRC keeps her cool tonight and doesn't go all "Peter Finch" on us!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMBZDwf9dok&feature=related

Jamie,
Just think of Barack Obama as a new box of Cheer

At least the contents in Cheer works.

Interesting that the networks ratings are very high why and the world would they want it to end on March 4th. What are they going to do between March 5th and the conventions. It will be boring period of time after all this excitement since January.

or "Howard Beale"...LOL

VAdaryl

"It sure helps your chances if you got the press on your side."

Hillary Clinton did something yesterday that I have my doubts Obama could have done. She made a major foreign policy speech filled with detail.

Heard any news about it other than an offhand, "Hillary was in Washington making a speech"? NO we get did she or didn't she put out a photograph?

It has been a constant negative drumbeat. For whatever reason, the powers that be prefer someone with one year's active experience in the Senate with no major committees and unable to call together the one subcommittee he chairs to a woman experienced in world government and international relations.

The networks don't care about what's good for the different parties, they just want high ratings and outdue each other. They want to get out the story first.

FD

"At least the contents in Cheer works"

Well my first thought was New Coke

Why would they want to give Hillary any credit on a speech, the photo was the storyline for the day. Ratings, Ratings, Ratings. Their big thing today is to find out who leaked the picture. Who cares!!!

Over the weekend their was one reporter for CNN that discussed what was true and false in Obama's flyer and other issues. For once there was someone who was really looking into the issues. But his segments were very short.

The networks don't care about what's good for the different parties, they just want high ratings and outdue each other. They want to get out the story first.

Posted by: vadaryl | February 26, 2008 7:47 AM

the networks' owners, however, are a different story.

General Electric......progress used to be our most important product......

HRC needs to keep her cool but retain her fire. She needs to press her points and disassemble Obama's. The MSM made it a big deal how she was booed in the last debate, but 15 seconds before that she was cheered on virtually the very same issue of Obama using other people's words. The only real difference was in the segment of her speech where she was booed, she used the word, xerox copy. And maybe the MSM didn't remember but, Elizabeth Edwards said very similar thing about Obama back in Dec. 2007. The MSM has a very convenient memory when it best suits there guy.

Econsmed, I don't understand the phrase, "No Chance Option." But, then, I was, and am, an NCO, too.

"General Electric......progress used to be our most important product....."

And now it's the war machine....

Huh, good god, y'all......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48KVZXroyjA

that's right, Patsi....
now it's the war machine.....

and guess which candidate GE would prefer to see elected to keep that money flowin'....

bet it's CEO had an orgasm when McCain uttered his "100 years in Iraq" line....

Sturgeone

Thanks loads for making me feel aged and decrepit because I knew what was going to be playing on that link before I clicked to listen. lol

IMHO, HRC needs to be very careful tonight. She needs to be calm and in control.

As a woman, HRC cannot afford to come across as a crazed woman, while BHO sits there being cool and "above it all".

BTW, Pat Buchanan is hilarious on Morning Joe, this morning!!

Jamie,

Hillary Clinton did something yesterday that I have my doubts Obama could have done. She made a major foreign policy speech filled with detail.

The key words there is "details. Lets not confused the issue with details. The star struck Obama supporters are to spellbound with the Obama mystique to be bothered with something as meaningless as details. This is so sad.

mornin' all.

Yep that's one thorny issue - Let's see how the golden one responds to this - hopefully better than he has with his I've been on the right side of the war from the beginning (BS). The same line will be answered with "I know what your answer is, but listen to my question this time." Of course, Hillary has no answer. At one level, I guess you could ask WTF is the point since all 3 remaining candidates have voted the same way on the issue. But here's the deal - it doesn't matter. What we are faced with is a choice between a party who wants to get us the hell out and a party that wants us to stay the hell put. This is nothing more than a misguided attempt to frame the election issue on the war so that the Dems can't win the argument on that issue. Or it could just be serving up a hanging curve for the dems to knock out of the park by changing the issue to what to do going forward since they haven't been able to do that themselves, but I am skeptical.

ET, WADR, there is NO reason to vote for Nadir.

Sturg - depressing, isn't it? How in thehell did Reid & Pelosi move into those positions of power?

Lush, I hope she comes out with all guns blazing - at least it might be interesting - unlike the last debate.

jamie - yep... Sigh.

HarborW....

I'm sure you're still in bed on the west coast..... but I want to tell you I clicked on your link about the government quietly admitting that a case of autism was caused by a vaccine with mercury in it....

that admission is huge.... it will be interesting to see what happens from this point.....

and I am so glad for you that it happened!

now.... just for you
GO DEMOCRATS!

Mika on MSNBC needs to grow up and become a real broadcaster. Now Hillary is being scorned for being strong and standing up for herself on the flier that Obama sent out. Gloria on Anderson360 is the same. Hillary has never moved off her issuses and her belief in her solutions. These women have a real problem with Hillary and show their bias everytime they open their mouths.
Yes Linda, I like Pat at least he tries to start the facts instead of getting into pettiness.
Ohio will support Hillary!!!

Lush, I hope she comes out with all guns blazing - at least it might be interesting - unlike the last debate.
--pogo
______

I agree!! I just want her to aim carefully, before she takes a shot!!
____

TR and BW better ask some "hardball" questions tonight!!

frydaddy, I listened to here that speech and it was excellent.
Now MSNBC are saying Hillary camp put out that picture of Obams. THAT IS LIE and Hillary camp denied it. YET MSNCB said they admitted to it.
This is yellow jouralism.

sturg - me, too - I can't open it, but I know what the link is to - absolutely nuthin'.

renee & HW, being in the toxic torts biz - not as much as you might think. As they say, one robin does not a spring make. The official from the gov't won't be testifying in any court as long as he (she) is still in the government, and the two sides will put experts up who will respectively adopt and discount whatever studies the government relied on to come to that conclusion. Oh, and the Law Firm of James Sokoloff will run a new ad directed toward parents of autistic kids, shich you will be able to watch as long as you watch cable channels in the evening.

Carol, Clinton is a strong woman; Mika is merely glib.

good for Willie...he is holding Michael Eric Dyson's feet to the fire, with his questions!!

pogo,

Isn't Law Firm of James Sokoloff the same group you see on TV suing on behalf of asbestos related illnesses?

ohhhh...Mika must've been twisting Willie's ballz under the table...'cause the MED interview ended with a big, wet "Willie/Mika slurp"...very disappointing.

flatus, I know but it is making me so upset. I have decided to get involved political and run for a state office in two years. I have never been political but seeing what has been going on over the last 3 month it has turned my stomach. I have several degrees, a psychologist and now I am ready.
Hillary is a very strong lady and I have complete confidence in her. Just have to listen to her words.
You know she could have gotten nasty but "shame on you" is hardly nasty. I thought it was well said. I am so excited about tonight.

LL,

Is that the same Michael Eric Dyson professor at Georgetown?
What was he doing on MSNBC for this morning?

Fry, yep, and nursing home cases and any other personal injury and mass torts that are the flavor of the day. They are a weird bunch - sort of an advertising clearinghouse. I had a nursing home case once with an attorney who got the case from them - he was sort of a subcontractor who got a smaller cut than he would have.

Renee & HW - I went back and opened the link - yep, that's quite an admission for the govenrnment, but note the questions posed by Kirby - they just scratch the surface of the issues in those cases. What cases like this point out is how advanced the science is on the one hand and how limited it is on the other.

FryDaddy

Yes...he was there to slurp BHO!! 8D

If the debate is run like the last one and you were Hillary and you won the coin flipp would you want to make the opening statement first or go 2nd. After that would you want to get the questions first or have the follow up question.

Here's the NYT take on the current Clinton campaign tactical moves. Kind of reminds me of a Rohrshach test.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/26/us/politics/26clinton.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

And this is not good news for Hillary - Dodd to endorse Obama.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Obama-Dodd.html

IMO,there should be a coin flip, but, just to keep it fair, I think it should only be for the first question. Then, for the remainder of the questions, they should switch, who answers first.

.oO(does that make sense?)

Pogo,

I was once part of a class action law suit once, which cost me $25 to join. I think there were about 10,000 of us and the average settlement was roughly $75k. The suit took 9 years to travel through all the various courts, and this was a pretty much a straight forward case from the very beginning favoring the plaintiffs. So cases involving different theories where both sides have a number creditable experts contradicting one another, you have to wonder if they'll ever reach a conclusion.

Jamie:

to add to your 7:47 post regarding Hillary's foreign policy speech. She was very impressive. Also, I don't see BO giving a major policy speech with what was it 5 retired generals standing PROUDLY behind him as they were Hillary.

And...no...not a word about the speech anywhere but CSPAN.

This makes me suspect that the Obama campaign was behind the photo so that their screaming bloody murder over it would distract from the speech itself. I'm sure they calculated whether the negative they would get out of being so outraged would be worth it against the non coverage of her policy speech.

Some BO supporters would call this a brilliant tactical move...well...unless Hillary had done it then it would be slimy...but since Obama will NEVER give a speech like that...

At any rate - watching MoJo this morning - had a Baptist Minister on there supporting Obama. Did anyone see it? I give the guy credit - when asked if Obama was ready to be president and the whole what has he achieved...he completely blew off the question and made an eloquent speech about why experience doesn't matter ("George Bush had experience and we see where that got us!" - Yes he said those exact words. ROFL). His non-answer to the question and speech about experience being overrated was so eloquent you could hear Mika go..."MMhmmmm" at the end of it. Can I get and AMEN Mika...AMEN. I LMAO - then I realized I wasn't watching another episode of SNL but the real news...then I started to cry.

;-)

And for the morning's economic news -

Wholesale inflation up by 1% in January (double what analysts expected, and highest in 16 years). Oops. Not what the Fed wanted.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Economy.html

And the inflationary pressures aren't limited to wholesale prices - the PPI (highest increase in 26 years) and core inflation (highest since last February) numbers were up also.

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/business/business-usa-economy-prices.html

Oh, and the Dow responds - it's up 189 points. As they say WTF?

Jamie wrote: "Well my first thought was New Coke"

ROFLMAO

Yes!

Wendy,
"then I realized I wasn't watching another episode of SNL but the real news...then I started to cry."

You may have a lot of company should Obama win.

where is this debate being held? Last time it was a Obama crowd to make things fair it should be a Hillary crowd this time around.

this time I think they both should be given time for closing statements just to be fair.

Fry, that must have been one hell of a class action - what was it about if you don't mind my asking? If you don't want to muck up the blog with it - larry dot chafin at steptoe hyphen johnson dot com. And $75k is unusually high as the average take for CA plaintiffs. They often result in minimal recovery for each plaintiff and huge fees for the attorneys - which (pardon my cynicism) is why attorneys bring them.

vadaryl - I'd want to give the first opening and take the questions as the second.

a little morning humor...

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/bldailyfeed3.htm

Vadaryl wrote: "this time I think they both should be given time for closing statements just to be fair."

Ummm... Vadaryl - they were both given time for closing remarks...Obama's was forgettable...that's all.

I would want to do the same thing. Set the tone right away.

I most of zoned out when he closed, I just remember hers.

I just remember he tried to say something but time ran out.

Actually I think he was just asking: Can I go now?

I wish they would publish their notes they took during the debate. Would be interesting to see.

If the Dems are dumb enough to put Obama in the presidential election, then they are looking at either a defeat in Nov or a do nothing presidency. If Obama gets the nomination I really hope Hillary backs away and doesn't try for the VP job. The Dems will need her in 2012 to pull the party back together again. I can't wait for the MSM to turn on Obama, it will be exciting.

At the very end he was looking to see if it was done but just before that he had that finger going like he wanted to say something.

Yeah...I think BHO wanted to get up, while HRO was getting her standing "O"...and he must have been told to sit still... 8D

Vadaryl: Obama was writing before Hillary even gave her opening statement. He was doodling...just like Jerry Lundegaard doodling on the golf notepad in Fargo.

Steve - they are testing the turn on Obama waters a little bit but want to probably wait until after TX and OH to go full force...they also want to be careful not to give Hillary new life.

I'm also looking forward to it.

Looking forward to HRC running in 2012

I've also switched to Independent like ET and hope that more high profile Indie candidates throw their hats into the ring so we can have a real choice and a real discussion.

Just watched the Nader clips...he makes some good points...perhaps I need to get over my "he cost Al Gore the election and gave us George Bush" grudge and give him another look...perhaps.

GWB maybe did not have much experience but look who he surrounded himself with. Very experienced guys like Cheney and Rumsfeld. How did that work out?

yo soy Horsedooty!

But he was trying so hard to get in a point before the Standing O. He knew that was going to be played over and over but the clock ran out.

Vadaryl:

I didn't see that - that's funny - of course he wanted to rebut her closing statement. He knew she hit a home run with that one...what an Obama thing to do. Shocked they didn't let him.

Steve, I agree with you. They are all republican and will turn on the democrat contender. At least Hillary is use to it. haha
I wonder why Obama has NOT be scrutized? Who is behind him? Please, people listen to the WORDS tonight, they say a lot.
What ever happened to Richardson and Edwards? They are waiting to long and their endorsement will be worthless. Are they waiting for March 4th? By then it will be too late for either of them for it to mean anything. Such game playing

The longer Edwards holds out the more I think he has not bought into Obama ideas. Richardson is holding out because he wants to be VP on either ticket, and why piss off one of them if the other wins.

Hillary needs some good news so an Edwards endorsement before March 4th would be a good start.

Mika soooooo hott...want to touch her hiney

kay bailey hutchinson (R) TX waxing fatuously on why McCain should be elected President this time on MSNBC now. She is another one that is running out her string and will probably contest with Gov Good Hair (Rick Perry) for Gov of Texas. Her main accomplishment in her life was she was a cheerleader at the University of Texas back in the early 60's

yo soy Horsedooty!

pogo,
The increase in the PPI were due to higher energy prices and the biggest increase in food prices in more than three years. Energy prices over the last 50 years have average an increase 5% a year. Gas in 1957 cost roughly $.20 cents a gallon, and today today you're paying roughly $3.10 per gallon for much better and cleaner burning grade of gas. Gas is only high because we, Americans, have become so use to low gas prices, and too because of the sudden price run up. Actually gas has stayed pretty much kept pace with inflation. Had the oil companies adjusted the prices of their by-products to meet inflation, $3.10 a gallon wouldn't have the same impact on us as it is having. And food is understandably higher because so much corn has been converted over to fuel. The increase in corn prices haves pulled all the other grains up with. Grains are up and so are beef and cattle prices are up, milk is higher. So we better hope for a bunker busting harvest of corn this year, or next year will be even worse than it is today. We love lower interest rates, but the Fed sees lowering interest rates as inflationary. Sort of the old catch-22 syndrome don't you think?

Lush, G/S. TYVM for the comedy link.

"look who he surrounded himself with. Very experienced guys like Cheney and Rumsfeld. How did that work out?"

And Obama has Zbigniew Brzezinski.

"Yer doin' a heck of a job, Ziggy." Jimmy Carter

"Edwards endorsement before March 4th would be a good start."

Given that Dodd is endorsing Obama today, an Edwards' endorsement would be so much more believable as sincere.

Sincerity is not something Dodd does well.

Yeah, I know Fry, It's all related to supply and demand - for oil and grain. And I also know that gas is about where it was 30 years ago when it is inflation adjusted - but it still feels bad when it costs $60 to fill the tank. What those numbers do point out is that eventually, the fiction of core inflation dissolves as the costs of transportation spread to affect the non-food and non-energy segments of the economy. I wish the government would drop the core inflation BS and supplant it with a "real inflation" index that takes into account weighted spending patterns so that the numbers would actually tie to the economy that voters live in - they know how prices hit them, so the gov't should publish an index that actually means something to its citizens.

"And food is understandably higher because so much corn has been converted over to fuel."

This is all well and good for Iowa etc., but there is no way we can grow enough to provide the needed bio fuels. It is why if we are going to continue to rely on individual transportation, the way to go is fuel cell and/or electric. Never should have given up the old electric cars in the first place. :-)

Carol:

Richardson is hedging his bets

The Edwards "non-endorsement" is more interesting. I think he wants to endorse Hillary because she's more experienced and tougher but can't because everyone around him is telling him he can't. But...he obviously finds himself in a situation where he CAN'T endorse Obama either. Why is that? Hmmmmm....makes one wonder. We all know why he CAN'T endorse Hillary but Obama seems like a better fit...yet...no endorsement.

Perhaps he is just timing it better - sometime this weekend perhaps he will endorse Obama - then all my speculation wil be wrong...but if he doesn't...that says more about Obama than anything.

pogo....
I don't have a dog to hunt in the autism battle.... HaborW does.....
and no matter what..... it's probably good news to her.... and I was merely congratulating her on that.....

so no more Spanish Inquisition on that point..... or I'll have to go get the puffy cushion...... :0}

Dooty..... you bring up a very good point.... a president surrounding himself with "experienced" people doesn't necessarily mean success...... one must get competent experienced people.....

Fry, sorry, I posted before I read the last line in your post - yep, that's what I meant to suggest with my Fed crack. Have the latest consumption figures been reported yet?

YW, pogo 8)

I think the site is hilarious, especially the cartoons!!

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/barackobama/ig/Barack-Obama-Cartoons/Race-Card-vs-Gender-Gard.htm

I have never viewed a presidential campaign where both surviving candidates for the dem nomination worked within the same chamber... this being the Senate. I would really love to know why so many senators have endorsed the man who walks on water? Does anyone know? We know Ted Kennedy hates her, and Dick Durbin is from Obama's home state, but some of the others surprise me. Is it tactical as in, "oh he's the winning ticket, it'll help me politically if I jump on board?"

I've tossed in the towel... I don't care what happens now. I've gone from passionate supporter to resigned to be issue a protest vote. And I am no longer a Democrat. If people want this charlatan, it's fine with me. I am convinced that someone who refuses to even wear an American flag on his lapel is going to really go over big with the mainstream, sarcasm on.

I don't like Raph Nader, but I am willing to look at him as a way to expressed disapproval with this nominating circus, without having to plug my nose and vote Repug... I am back to taking a nap. As you can tell, my mood has soured greatly in the last 24 hours, and it isn't just from here... :-) Although irritated, I am also resolute. This lifelong Democrat is one NO MORE...

Cheers.

Senor Horsedooty

Molly Ivins thought Sen Hutchinson was a minor possbility in 2004. She might think now is the time for another run. Of course, we might get lucky. Texans could come to their senses and elect Kinky.

ET,

I think your diaper needs changed.

FD/Pogo

"gas is about where it was 30 years ago when it is inflation adjusted"

If middle class wages had done the same, it wouldn't be any problem. Unfortunately, they have stagnated or declined while these core COL indexes continue to climb.

Renee, not meant to be the inquisition - just an observation. :-{)

jamie, you are right about personal transportation - corn as a fuel source solves some pollution problems, but it doesn't appreciably lower carbon emissons, which is what ADM and the corn industry would have you believe. It's a problem in search of a technology to solve it. Hell, for the past 2 years all we've heard in WV is liquified coal as a source of (primarily) diesel fuel - only it's been done before - Hitler's armies ran on the stuff. One thing is certain - corn ain't gonna be the answer.

ET

"American flag on his lapel is going to really go over big with the mainstream, sarcasm on."

Not quite enough change. I think the flag worn as a James Brown cape after another "hopeful" speech would be so much more impressive. Done right he might get groups of fainters and need to stock in cases of bottled water.

I just got the Chis Dodd Obama endorsement e-mail. I don't know a way to link it, but for the benefit of you Obama fans out there, I will (reluctantly) edit the chaff out and post the reasons he cites for endorsing Obama if you want me to.

Fry Hunny Bunny,

My Son is a Navy lifer like his mother, father, and grandfather before him.

He is also a card carrying Democrat. He understands from his mother that he can vote his concience and still be serving his country too.

hmmm my 9:41 post is like one i did earlier. Oh well, consider it a repeat for emphasis...

Just like Ralph Nader, another bad penny turns up:

Journal -Gennifer Flowers is putting the tapes of her recorded conversations with Bill Clinton during their 12-year affair on the auction block, Vegas Confidential learned Monday.

Flowers, who came forward during Clinton's 1992 Presidential election campaign with details of the relationship, said she decided to part with the tapes after renewed interest surfaced. She was offered $5 million by a Japanese collector in the 1990s, she said.

Not to say he wasn't excited to get back at Bin Laden and didn't' vote Republican the first time, but he saw the light very soon after. Smart young man. He knows that if he votes for his countries welfare and that is against the Commander In Chief, he is still a patriot.

Pogo

Bill Mahar actually made a good point about greenhouse gasses. If we all became vegetarians, they would substantially decrease.

Trying to get the American public to give up or substantially reduce meat consumption is harder than getting them to buy a Prius.

Because they share something in common...

jamie, yep, that is true.

Signed,

One of the worst offenders.

ET to answer your question about endorsements from the senate.

Because they share something in common with Barack.

HALPERIN’S TAKE: Things McCain Can Do to Try to Beat Obama That Clinton Cannot

"4. Encourage interest groups, bloggers, and right-leaning media to explore Obama’s past.

5. Make an issue of Obama’s acknowledged drug use.

6. Allow some supporters to risk being accused of using the race card when criticizing Obama.

7. Exploit Michelle Obama’s mistakes and address her controversial remarks with unrestricted censure.

11. Emphasize Barack Hussein Obama’s unusual name and exotic background through a Manchurian Candidate prism."

( The Repub Attack/Smear machine would have lots of "FUN" with these attack lines.)

http://thepage.time.com/halperin’s-take-ways-mccain-can-beat-obama-that-clinton-cannot/

ET to answer your question about endorsements from the senate.

Because they share something in common with Barack.

Posted by: Wendy! | February 26, 2008 10:01 AM

You mean, they think THEY walk on water too? ....

ET

ROFL

Easier to walk on water with 3 legs

:-D

OK, here's the edited Dodd endorsement of Obama- I only took out the stuff that was boilerplate.

"Dear Pogo,

We have been through a lot in this past year and your friendship and support have meant so much to me. That is why I wanted to let you know of my decision to endorse a Democratic candidate for President - and that I have decided to support Barack Obama.

And while both of our Party's remaining candidates are extremely talented and would make excellent commanders-in-chief, I am throwing my support to the candidate who I believe will open the most eyes to our shared Democratic vision.

I'm deeply proud to be the first 2008 Democratic presidential candidate to endorse Barack Obama. He is ready to be President.

Put simply, I believe Barack Obama is uniquely qualified to help us face this housing crisis, create good jobs, strengthen America's families in this 21st century global economy, unite the world against terrorism and end the war in Iraq - and perhaps most importantly, call the American people to shared service and sacrifice. In this campaign, he has drawn millions of voters into politics for the first time in their lives and shown us that we are united by so much more than that which divides us.

More than ever, we need a President who will inspire us to take part in the political process and change our country's path.

Today, when we need it most, we are hearing a new call from Barack Obama.

Sincerely,

Chris Dodd

Paid for by Chris Dodd for [Vice] President, Inc., PO Box 51882, Washington, DC 20091"

I find it interesting that this was paid for by Dodd's presidential campaign (I added the [VICE] part.

funny...

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/hillaryclinton/ig/Hillary-Clinton-Cartoons/Audacity-of-Nope.-1Gk.htm

Yes Wendy, I thought of that... hahahah but then Claire Mc. from Missouri popped into mind...

Maybe she wants to be under Obama too... don't flip this is a joke but I find it sooo funny:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Xb3bDwE9jQ

Paid for by Chris Dodd for [Vice] President, Inc., PO Box 51882, Washington, DC 20091"

LOL ... you wouldn't be suggesting there was an ulterior motive?

So he ALSO wants to get under Barack Obama? WOW.... now we're talkin' !

OK, Lush, you inspired me, but rather than be an equal opportunity poster, here's a link to jokes about McCain only.

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/johnmccain/a/johnmccainjokes.htm

ET, now would I ever suggest such a thing?

Bank failures? Oh my.
http://calculatedrisk.blogspot.com/2008/02/fdic-bracing-for-bank-failures.html

I just tried to post the links for all the candidates...but I got a message that it is being held... 8(

HRC jokes...

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/hillaryclinton/Hillary_Clinton_Jokes.htm

BHO jokes...

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/barackobama/Barack_Obama_Jokes.htm

For those of You who think the election will be a cake walk for the Dems. Look at the states that are currently in Rasmussen's tossup list.

"These are likely to be the early battleground states of Election 2008: Florida (27), Ohio (20), Virginia (13), Missouri (11), Colorado (9), Iowa (7), Nevada (5), New Mexico (5), New Hampshire (4), and Wisconsin (10). "

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/election_2008_electoral_college_update

Jack

Lush, you broached the 3 link threshold.

It means you have put more than 2 links on your message.. I got that too before...

Lush. REmember the two link rule.

Any more than that in one post and it gets held. You either need to repost or wait for Craig to release it from never never land

JSM jokes(please see pogo's 10:15am post)... 8)

Oh, I didn't know that, but I do now!!

Thanks, Jamie!! 8)

Well I guess Lil got enough answers to that remark. :-)

For those of you who hate war and love history, I put up a great anti-war ballad and a bit of history about another war that was totally screwed up by the leaders and resulted in thousands of deaths and permanent injuries.

http://jdurward.blogspot.com/

Oh, and thanks EuroTom 8)

and thanks, pogo, too!! LOLOLOL!!!

they never get released.... I am having coffee before I return to work...

Flatus - No Chance Option wasn't a swipe at your or Army NCO's - was at the no win chance of Alan Keyes.

Obama donations may surface in political fund-raiser's trial

"There’s a strong chance the name of presidential contender Barack Obama will surface at indicted political fund-raiser Tony Rezko’s trial, which begins next week.

She also ruled that prosecutors can ask questions about how money from that fee allegedly was used “to make a political contribution” in Aramanda’s name “because Rezko had already donated the maximum amount by law and he could not make the contribution himself.”

The ruling does not identify Obama as the recipient of that contribution. But sources have identified Obama as the “political candidate” who prosecutors say received a $10,000 contribution from Aramanda — at Rezko’s direction — during his 2004 run for U.S. Senate. Obama has donated that contribution to charity.

Rezko was once part of Obama’s senatorial finance committee."

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/812207,morerez022508.article

Jack, 7 of those states went Repug in '00 and '04. If any one of the states had gone Dem in '00, Gore would have been president; if any of the states with more than 9 electoral votes would have flipped to dem in '04, John Kerry would be president. Not a cakewalk, but over twice as many states that went red in the past 2 elections are in play for dems than states that went blue are for Repugs. It says something about the mood of the country, I think. This is where the moronic punative action of Howie Dean against MI & FL could come into play and deny the Dems FL.

Did any of you ever hear this song? Wasteland of the Free by Iris DeMent... I used to play it on my radio show in Olympia Washington... KAOS Olympia Community Radio... Here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuEWBlChry4

One more cow...or I guess this would be a load of bull

http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mcmaverickbrandedxv8.jpg

Wendy:

I posted some (ridiculously) long responses to you over on the last thread. Too big to cut and paste over.

Everyone:

Hmmmm... Let's see - when the photos first come out - they are linked to Clinton staffers.

Now, every Clinton insider I see does the same old two-step.

1. Qualified denial
("I personally don't know..." - "This was not sanctioned by the campaign" - etc.)

2. Immediately into a fillibuster to prevent any follow-up questions
("Would the Clinton campaign be so stupid" - do you really want an answer? plus their desparate - "What is all the fuss about - Hillary wears funny hats too" - Hillary has not been the victim of a smear campaign to spread misinformation that she is a Muslim to the "great unwashed" as Patsi calls them)

I think Clinton realizes she will go on after this nomination process no matter what - I do not think all of her staffers get this.

RR, pogo, fry, and other interested parties...

I only have a 'dog in this fight' in the sense that my son has autism/Aspergers. We are not part of the case against vaccine makers. As is usually the case with anything in the legal system, and even moreso with things tangled in a legal/governmental system, the rules are truly stacked against the injured party. To be part of this group, you would have had to know that your child's autism was tied to vaccines and have filed your paperwork within two years of his receiving the vaccine in question. That historically happened with very few. It happens more frequently now, as parents are more aware of the need to watch for signs and symptoms, and of the filing requirements. The system was set up to protect the vaccine makers.

Another reason I have no dog in this particular fight is that I believe my son was born with whatever he has. Believing that, there is no money motive for me, as I couldn't have filed anyway. But I do want to know both the cause(s) and the cure. I believe that these kids have a genetic predisposition that is triggered by something in the environment. For my son, that environment was his prenatal environment, perhaps my body's toxic load. I may have exacerbated his condition every time I allowed him to receive a vaccination, but I will never know for sure. What I do know for sure is that neither he nor I will ever have another vaccine of any kind unless it is literally a life or death matter. That's not a decision I've made lightly. It is one based on a great deal of research that has led me to the conclusion that vaccines are NOT one of our greatest medical advances, but are in fact incredibly dangerous, as too little is known about the effects of the various vaccine components on the human body. And I DO believe that vaccine components (probably not just mercury, but also aluminum, formaldehyde, and other things that likely should never be injected into the human bloodstream) play a huge role in the current epidemic of regressive autism. I believe they also play a role in the neurological damage being done to many kids who are lucky enough NOT to end up on the autism spectrum. There are environmental reasons involved in the fact that 1 out of every 6 American children now receives some degree of special education services. Isn't it just possible that these genetically predisposed kids are 'canaries in a coal mine'?

My problem with the legal system is that it seems like a game to me. There are rules, and if you fit neatly into the framework of those rules, you win. If you do not fit neatly into that framework, you lose...and truth plays virtually no part in that system. I hate that. For me, truth is not relative. There is what is true, and there is what is not true.

My other problem has to do with politics...and that is a big part of the reason I care about this or any other election. The current administration has done incredible damage to science. They don't want to know the truth. They only want to know what is convenient for their corporate sponsors, so they simply make up their own truth. In this climate, we will NEVER know the cause of autism or countless other illnesses...and we will never know the truth behind many other legitimate scientific concerns, such as global climate change. Being permitted to make up truth and pass it off as knowledge is not a good thing. We MUST put people in office who hold scientific truth inviolable.

I believe the answers are all out there. We just have to come up with the right questions. Simplistic, yes, but true at its core. The right questions, answered with a heart for truth, will lead us to solve many of today's greatest problems.

Gordo, the prosecution will have to show that the donation went to Obama to prove that it was to avoid the limit on donations. And they will have a witness to prove that fact.

It is a tough sell when the Dems promised to end the war if we voted them in and then they continued the enthusiastic support for Bush. McCain knows this...and do the Dems really think we'll believe them anymore when they promise to end the war?
As State Senator Clay Davis , of "The Wire" HBO show says, '"Sheeeeee-it!"
Most anti-war sentiment is contained in long-forgotten peace groups far from the madding crowd of D.C.
Congress, by record, is much more in favor of McCain's views on Iraq than anything HRC or Obama are saying on the stump, with an invisible wink-and-a-nod, of course, because Obama and Hillary have been solidly for Bush ALL ALONG in his war effort. And Hillary sounds like Holler-ee when she disses Obama this week, especially in RI earlier.

Well said Horbor and worth the read!

Maybe someone from the Obama camp released the photo. It was reported that only a handful of people were with BHO, in the room, when he tried on the Somali garb. Someone with BHO had to take the pic.

Sorry....HARBOR..... ;0)

Harborwoman: You live on the West Sound, correct? Bremerton? Do you know if there has been any proof of a "cluster" of autism cases in the Puget Sound area? I had several friends on Bainbridge Island (where I used to live) who have children with autism (at various points on the spectrum including Asperger's.) I have now been in Iowa for 2.5 years and have not met one person who has a child with autism (this isn't saying too much as I don't get out all that often!) but I was just curious about the geographic trends.

warren, again..all you have to do is copy and paste the time stamp if you want to refer someone to a previous post.

bainbridge island! BELISSIMO!

Ally you live in Iowa, well there's mostly Corn stalks there, not so many people :-) .. I am originally from minnesota, but many relatives in Iowa. We in Minnesota used to have this joke... "why does the Mississippi river run south? Because Iowa SUCKS"... I think it was over sports team competitiveness.

Warren, I doubt you will see the level of unity you are expecting once Obama has the nomination. You may be right, but I'm pretty cynical. I am pretty serious about a third party candidate... but never shut the door completely.

Ally,

While Harbor can answer for Gig Harbor, I can answer some for my home town of Bremerton.

I have several high school class mates with children who have Autism. My graduating class was 76 kids only and there are 6 children alone. My best friend from high school has a daughter who is autistic and she says that number in Kitsap County is high.

There is also an unusually high number of MS in the area too.

Harbor, what say you?

Warren, I doubt you will see the level of unity you are expecting once Obama has the nomination. You may be right, but I'm pretty cynical. I am pretty serious about a third party candidate... but never shut the door completely.

Posted by: EuroTom | February 26, 2008 10:54 AM

Oh Ye of Little Faith.

I think you are going to be very suprised.

I agree. Feelings tend to be on edge when one candidate wins over another, but people tend to get behind the nominee.

My head hurts.

THEY GOT HIM! Well, ...close!

Osama bin London convicted.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSL2585978020080226

Fry, re your 9:21.

Right now, inflation is a heck of a lot better for us than deflation. In saying that, it goes without saying that there has to be forbearance on mortgage interest rates for at least a year. Such forbearance would undoubtedly be good for mortgage bankers in the long-run. But, that's now what shareholders care about .

Deflation will encourage more and more people to walk away from their devalued homes.

If inflation causes the perceived value of their property to remain close to what their mortgage reads, then there's a good chance that people will stay put. Then, when things are more stable, we can disinflate the economy gracefully.

Jeez lousie - you people can be so demanding...

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/02/clintons-tactical-switchhittin.html#comment-42366

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/02/clintons-tactical-switchhittin.html#comment-42371

You will be pleased to know that at least Norway allows their scientists to do the right thing

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a.5VVkTS4JKs&refer=home

ET: Yes, Iowa is a big change from Bainbridge Island. We decided to take the money and run after selling our house on the water. We moved somewhere where we can live a bit simpler with excellent schools and have money in the bank (for the first time in a long time.) The financial stress was really taking its toll on our psyche. However, it has been a real trip to move to a place where we knew not one single soul. My husband never even saw the house in person when we bought it. Just pictures. My son and I came out, found a house and three weeks later we moved (our house on Bainbridge sold in 6 hours with 3 offers.)

I still go to Seattle 6x a year for business. I actually like Iowa more than I thought I would: No traffic, very affordable and I love having seasons again. Downside: no place to eat. But I love to cook so it works. It's healthier to eat at home anyway! It is important to us that our boys understand where food comes from, how you prepare it and the joy of enjoying it at home with your family.

EuroTom:

Don't kid yourself. Your potential vote for some undetermined 3rd-party candidate is essentially a vote for McCain and all the policies you supposedly abhor.

I need to do some work.

'Muslim' photo raises Obama connection questions - Linked to opposition leader who admitted plans for Islam

"One of the concerns being expressed regarding Obama's ties involves his connections to Kenyan political opposition leader Raila Odinga, links documented through Obama's attendance at public rallies where he spoke on behalf of Odinga."

( Yes, I know about WND. )
http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=57363

There's no scientifically designated cluster of autism cases that I'm aware of in this area. There is, however, a worldwide explosion of kids on the spectrum...it's gone from an incidence of 1 in 2500 to an incidence of 1 in 150, by current estimates, and the incidence in boys is much higher...1 in 80. I am aware of areas where they can point to specific environmental triggers as possible causes of autism clusters, but not aware of any here. Can think of some possibilities, though...Naval Shipyard (many chemicals, etc.) in Bremerton, Asarco in Tacoma, Hanford nuclear plant in...well, Hanford....

"The current administration has done incredible damage to science. They don't want to know the truth. They only want to know what is convenient for their corporate sponsors, so they simply make up their own truth. In this climate, we will NEVER know the cause of autism or countless other illnesses...and we will never know the truth behind many other legitimate scientific concerns, such as global climate change. Being permitted to make up truth and pass it off as knowledge is not a good thing. We MUST put people in office who hold scientific truth inviolable."

Hear! Hear! Harbor!

Sheila: Wow. That is absolutely startling information. Autistm was a constant topic of conversation on the island and since I moved here I have not heard it mentioned once. Between Asarco and Wyckoff I always had my concerns about Vashon and Bainbridge.

I don't have any home town stats on autism, but a HUGE number of people from my county in Kansas have MS. It's really astonishing

Econsmed. Got it. Keyes is obviously a brilliant man and a fine orater. But, he's so much of a zealot that he's a kook.

I think GORDO was responsible for the photos. G - do you work for the Clinton campaign??

Shelia: BTW, there were two women in my neighborhood on Bainbridge with MS.

Ally...

I lived in Iowa (lived in Des Moines, taught in West Des Moines) for one year (1971-72). I taught special ed, and don't recall that any of my students had autism. In fact, in my early teaching career, I had only one autistic student...a little boy in my class as a first year teacher. Wish I had known then all I know today...could've really helped that boy and his family.

think GORDO was responsible for the photos. G - do you work for the Clinton campaign??
--warren

The question should be..."G-do you work for the Obama campaign??" ;)

There are many people who believe there may be some connection between MS and vaccine components. You might google it.

Also, meant to mention this earlier, but John and Elizabeth Edwards are part of the group that's spending $20M to get the word out about the Iraq Recession. Didn't pogo mention that group earlier?

GORDO puleeeeeeeeeeeez - World Net Daily?

With all of the tangental links that mean nothing, the one place where an actual bit of information might have been useful has no link, no witness statement, nada, zilch, nothing ....

"Obama's attendance at public rallies where he spoke on behalf of Odinga."

I'm certainly no Obama fan, but these scurrilous, blobs of vague nothingness are really, really stupid.

Yep...here's a link re: Edwards and the Iraq Recession Group.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2008/02/john_edwards_ba.php

HW, my heart goes out to anyone who has a kid with a disease - heck, kids without diseases are hard enough. I can tell you that the legal system is a game, but it favors one party or the other only depending upon whom you ask and where you are. Plaintiffs flock to WV state courts if they can find a defendant here to sue because of our lenient rules and Supreme Court of Appeals, both of which favor plaintiffs, and defendants work like crazy to get into federal court ot avoid those things. Autism sounds like one of those scientifically complex set of diseases where there is more than one potential cause for each case, and ferreting out the cause in the individual case is difficult and costly. I am very thankful that my son has had no apparent problems related to vaccines, which I fully recognize the potential for and BTW agree with you about the multiple bad chemicals that should not be put into the bodies of our children or the vaccinesthey get.

Of course Linda - nothing is what it seems when the Clinton campaign is involved.

There is always some conspiracy theory or alternative spin that is more convincing than the truth.

Patsi

The high incidence of MS could be related to heritage and genetics. If you are of Nordic descent, you are much more likely to contract MS. Didn't Kansas get a huge influx of emigrants from Norway and Sweden?

I just listened to On Point of the AM side of Public Radio here in Nashville...it was on how gender played a role in this campaign. WHOA! Geraldine Ferrarro was on fire! She says Tim Russert considers himself a "candidate" when he asks questions, and she has confronted both Russert and Matthews on their sexism.

Pat Shroeder was also good, talking about how the sexism is now much more sophisticated than when she ran. She has a funny line about that. A reporter asked her (as so many did) -- "How do you feel about running as a woman." Pat's answer: "What's my option?"

Katha Pollitt (an Obama supporter) said despite her support for Hillary's rival, she is thoroughly disgusted by the media this cycle. Pollitt and Farrarro both agree that the sexist concerns shouldn't have to do with who you support.

Ellen Goodman said this about Obama in the general: it is not a question of whether the women who have been longtime party regulars will vote for him, it is whether that vital group will continue to be as hard-working as they have been in the past.

But for me the money quote came from a young, Harvard educated caller, a black woman and registered Republican. She said she voted for Hillary because of the sexism that for her had a level of violence to it. (her word)

Ally,

remember the 76 kids in my class of 75? try 4 who have been diagnosed with MS. All stayed in Bremerton.

I'm not sure it is chemicals from the Navy Yard though. They are seriously tight with the ECO system as per Washington regulations enstated over 40 years ago. They cleaned up their bases and helped the community when i was a girl of 13 or 14.

I thought the Autism/immune shots correlation made more sense. The community is poor but very careful about their children and would have made an all out effort to get well baby check ups and immunities done etc.

As far as MS......HOLY !@#$ their is a lot out there....as well as an epidemic of Fybromyalgia

Pogo

What struck me was how the list never seems to change.
VA is good news but I would have thought that states like Iowa, WI and NH would have moved out of tossup/weak leaner into the strong leaner list.

Jack

Ally when did you leave?

I left in 2002. Before that I was working at Bistro Pleasant Beach on Bainbridge.

my sis has been living on Vashon for 30 years and working with the school system. She says that there is no indication of any autism on Vashon.

The question should be..."G-do you work for the Obama campaign??" ;)

the real question is Gordon do you work at all. Or do you just play in your mothers basement and with your video games.

Gordon is a troll.

yo soy Horsedooty!

"At long last, the Democratic leaders of Congress have publicly surrendered on the Iraq War, just one year after being swept into power with a firm mandate to end it."

Thus, my dissolutionment continues. I remain a green dot.

TRADE? What are they saying about trade?

tt

i finally figured why the far left members of congress are endorsing obama .......these left wing nuts can control him when and if hes elected...........kennedy, kerry dodd etc can push him into left wing ideology and call in their endorsement favors........they know they could never control HRC.......i switched to independent because the far left of the dem party will destroy the party and really put a hurting on this country....this country will be run by the kennedys ...kerrys ....dodds and liebermans (his mentor in congress) and the jacksons and sharptons ...how far left are we going????????????

jamie ------------------------

WND post is an example of what the Right will do to Obama ( and this a very, very gentle hit ). Forget truth & facts - Repubs are "In it to win ( or steal ) it". They will be ferocious!

pogo...

You are right. Autism is complex, and each case is somewhat different, which adds to the difficulty of ferreting out solutions. Sometimes I think it's all just neurological damage and that it doesn't really matter what name we give it...then I take a deep breath and realize that there are commonalities that link all the various sets of symptoms that are now described as the autism spectrum. I have chosen to treat Sam holistically (well, I don't treat him, his docs do) since he was 4, and it has paid huge dividends. We use a blend of natural and conventional therapies, though mostly natural. I also keep his diet as close to organic as I can, and keep his diet free of gluten and casein.

I would give a lot if Sam's issues were not neurological. I honestly believe that nearly any disability would be easier to take than one that leaves you unable to fully participate in life because you can't use your brain the way most people can. It breaks my heart for him. I keep wondering when the grieving ends. He's 20...so maybe never.

And, BTW, little pogo sounds like a fabulous kid! I love reading about his exploits!

Sheila: I left in the Fall of 2005. Moved to Bainbridge in 2001 from West Seattle after living there for 10 years. We loved Bistro Pleasant Beach (and Nola!)

We had many friends on Vashon but none of them have kids. Interesting that there isn't any notice of autism on that island.

"There is always some conspiracy theory or alternative spin that is more convincing than the truth. "
--warren

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know that the person, who had released the pic, had been named and identified as being from the Clinton camp. I must have missed that, on the news.

Now I completely understand how you can be so sure that someone from the Obama camp did not release it.

Heres the best incentive for all of us to vote for whoever is the DEM nominee.

Bush Predicts GOP Will Hold White House Bush: Americans Will Elect GOP President To "Keep Up The Fight" In Iraq

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/25/bush-predicts-gop-will-ho_n_88443.html

WASHINGTON — President Bush predicted Monday that voters will replace him with a Republican president who will "keep up the fight" in Iraq. "I'm confident we'll hold the White House in 2008," Bush told donors at the Republican Governors Association annual dinner, which raised a record $10.6 million for GOP gubernatorial candidates

Warren - in response to your 10:44 post regarding the photo.

It seems clear that Obama's campaign probably put the photo out so they could throw a tantrum and distract from a very good Clinton Foreign Policy speech where 5 retired generals threw their support behind Clinton saying she was the right choice to be Commander In Chief. I believe Obama got more flack than Hillary for the way he reacted...but I also believe his campaign new they would and weighed the negative reaction they would get over the non-coverage of Hillary's speech and found it to be worth it. He got what wanted - no coverage of Hillary lots of coverage of his campaign being "outraged".

If I were you, Warren, being the Obama supporter you are, I would simply pat him on the back for a brilliant tactical move rather than continuing the big Obama crocodile tears over the photo.

I know a boy who lies on Vashon who has Aspergers, so the comment that there's no evidence of autism on Vashon is interesting.

MS is also probably linked to immune dysfunction. Again, look to vaccines. Their sole function is to mess with your immune system.

Jack, I don't believe any state that went blue in 00 or 04 is likely to change to red this cycle. I think NH has been in the process of going bluer for about a couple of decades although it backslid with Bush - it was deep red when I lived there. Those upper midwest states- I never try to predict them - too many deeply conservative folks there to rely on them - although I do feel pretty good about WI & IA.

zumper

i agree with your assessment....the DNC let us fla voters down...they knew the GOP of fla changed the date of the primary and the GOP govenor signed it into law ...they never fought that for the dems in our state ..we had no choice but to vote on that day and our votes arent even revelent ...all 1.7 million of us ...well after being a lifetime dem i am going to switch to independent

ET if all it takes for you to leave the Democratic Party is a little adversity then I don't think you were ever really a Democrat to begin with. Go vote for whomever you want and like Warren said, a vote for anyone else is a vote for McCain and you have said how you hated his policies. A vote for McCain is a vote for war for a 100 years in the Middle East. Is that what you want?

I have always maintained that even if my fav is not the nominee then I would vote for the other one with a D by his or her name. The idea is to elect a Dem regardless unless the last 8 years is what you want for the future.

yo soy Horsedooty!

Harborwoman: I have always been curious. When did autism become a "diagnosis"? Was it possible that kids were labeled incorrectly in the 70s?

Ally...

Autism was first named in the early 1940s, so it became a diagnosis then. I don't think it was widely misdiagnosed in the 70s, but the diagnostic criteria has certainly expanded...thus, the autism spectrum disorder label. If it had been widely misdiagnosed, you'd see lots of adults running around with autism. those adults aren't out there, so I don't think that's the answer.

Jamie -- Yes, there are large comminuties of Nordic people in Kansas...also German and Russian. But my area is pretty much of the garden variety-type English heritage.

HW, I'm sure Sam appreciates your efforts for him at some level.

Good lord, still snapping at each other about the photo? Give it up - we won't know anything until Drudge or whoever gave it to him fesses up. If we were interested in finding out where it came from, we might consider who took it, who had it a month ago, and how they might have gotten it. While wild speculation is fun, sources are important in these things.

Harbor: Oh no...I didn't think this was an answer...I was just curious if kids were mislabeled and misunderstood during that time period.

harbor,

My sister just said that there was no contact with Autism in the school system on Vashon. But one boy certainly means its there.

Ally.....six degrees of separation. You were probably in the front of the house watching me while I cooked.....interesting.

its not there anymore, by the way.

pogo...

Sam is fully verbal and is very high functioning. He's able to tell me what he appreciates and what he doesn't. Like me, he's a little pissed (well, maybe a lot!) at the gods for giving him this bag of rocks to haul around, but he fights every day to defeat it. He's a great kid!

GORDO

"Right will do to Obama" I'm sorry but your whole theory is based on a major fallacy. There are about 25% of the people who are so totally stupid and/or brainwashed that they will believe this crud. It has simply been too overexposed that even some of the densest now get that this stuff is worthless.

Even my far right falling off the flat edge of the earth contacts who barely know how to turn on their computers now send me emails with attachments and "TRUE?" in the subject line so that I can let them know if they should forward it to their mailing lists.

Your constant repetition of more and more of this from these fringe sources is a waste of your time unless you just really need something to keep your fingers busy.

Wendy:

Don't get me started on Hill's foreign policy address - and her McCain-like distortions of Obama's positions.

And it does not surprise me that the Clinton machine can round up some generals for a photo-op.

Speaking of people in the background - who was that bobble-head behind Hillary during her infamous "shame on you" tirade...

Harbor and Ally,

interestingly enough. Holy Ridge in Bremerton was one of the first out patient experimental treatment centers for Autism.

I began as a volunteer there when i was 13 and I ended up as an after school worker with the social workers. We were doing behavioral modification experiments.

Very slow process and very unrewarding at the time. NOW, the sky is the limit with these people.

Hey, the kids there were anywhere from a little boy who was found in a chicken koop in mexico to twins who were the off spring of two nerosurgeons.

Sheila: Yes, I saw that it had changed last time I was there. They did an interesting renovation : )

A bakery bill, eh? Well, there ya have it.

tt

HW, that is wonderful to hear.

Ally...I'm sure some of the higher functioning kids have always been misdiagnosed and misunderstood. My brother has Aspergers. We didn't realize that until after I had Sam and started researching it...and he was badly underestimated in school. He tests in the top 1% in intelligence, but was widely considered to be a bit slow until he aced the school's standardized tests in 10th grade.

Sheila...Not sure if the boy's parents have allowed him to be accurately labeled, so don't know what impact he may have had on Vashon's school system.

Sheila...Sam started school at Holly Ridge at the ripe old age of 18 months. They did some good work with him, but even then, diagnosis was shaky. His only diagnosis at that time was developmental delay, and the teacher said..."he can't be autistic, can he? he's affectionate." It's a very misunderstood disorder, but the kids are in a lot of sensory pain that goes untreated.

Patsi:

I am not going to sit here and say the media bias against Hillary does not have anything to do with her being a woman. But I think it is also due to the fact that she is a Clinton and she has run a poor campaign. I did not hear much about this media bias at the beginning of the campaign when she was doing well - and everyone in the media thought she would be the next President. Trust me, it was very frustrating to watch as an Obama supporter.

Moreover, if Hillary is able to knee-cap Barack and slide into the nomination - she may lose. If she does - I think that it will be because (i) she voted to authorize the war in Iraq, (ii) she is more closely tied to special interests than any of the big 3 left, and (iii) she is a Clinton. These points will not dissuade the Dem. base - but it hurts her in the middle. Nevertheless, people will attribute her loss to her being a woman - setting back the feminist movement. The potential BS will be - "I guess America is just not ready for a woman President." Nonsense.

Most of the sexist pigs are voting for McCain - no matter who he runs against.

Gotta' run for awhile. Will catch up later....

Patsi: My husband is from Burlington, KS. That is one of the reasons we moved back to the Midwest. He went to Washburn and then the University of Kansas.

Harbor,

More six degrees of separation eh?

Welll, I saw enough senory deprevation for a life time. I also saw the almost desparate ways inwhich they "Cared" for themselves to open my eyes are the tender age of 13.

Here is a great epolog though. I know a very highly functioning 45 year old autistic man. He is definitily no better than average level of autism.

his parents and grandparents were insistent on giving him the tools to take care after they were gone. Today he lives in a small village on Long island. He has his own room in a house for special people. Has a job. Puts his pay checks in the bank every pay day. Drives a car and never goes beyond the streets he was taught. He works out and is BUFF.

He is of course, Sauvant. He remembers everything I say and teases me incessently for not passing my driving test the first time and cannot fathom why I am so terrible at basic math and so wonderful at Algebra and other abstract math.... ;0)

I can't make him understand how its its all like recipe.

Anyway, Tom is a wonder to know.

This is for Warren in response to his 12:57 am post from previous thread

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/02/clintons-tactical-switchhittin.html#comment-42366

1)

No – I was not implying that Obama’s hope was an illusion – clearly that is the only thing that is real about him. What I was implying is that he says one thing and does another – that is the illusion – the old sleight of hand behind the scenes.

It has been a campaign about issues which Hillary's campaign has focused on - not Obama. In fact, it's what she's criticized for so I'm not sure why you're using that as a point in Obama's favor.

There is plenty of evidence of Obama's lack of issues focus all posted here on CCTM so I won't bother.

2) As for whether Obama has the nomination:

Obama has not earned the nomination yet and only 3% separates them in the popular vote. I will concede that her message has not been a home run – but I like the policy wonkiness so it’s a home run for me.

I realize the rest of the public like generalities and obviously Obama’s handlers got that right. but then I refer everyone back to the article about sheep.

http://www.zmescience.com/scientists-point-out-our-flock-mentality

I will also concede that he does have the momentum and is VERY LIKELY to get the nomination

3) Obama on "special interest"

Obama has his own problems with special interests – articles have surfaced just in the last few days talking specifically about his special interest ties – look back through the threads, people have posted them. Again – this goes back to my comment about Hillary – we know what we get – she’s not hiding it like he is or trying to step around it as Obama is – leaving things covered up is more dangerous for you Democrats in the general elections than somebody who says: Yea…so what I take their money…that’s how you win these things.

So when you say, “People have been calling out for a change – and Obama personifies it more than any other candidate” Clearly the evidence that has been coming out disproves this notion – it just means that he’s lying about it and as I said that is more dangerous for you in the long run.

3) Regarding is "plans"?

You listed things in his stump speech – yes those are all great things. In fact Hillary has very detailed plans on all of those VERY SAME THINGS. I’m am totally with you Warren we need to accomplish all of those things. Obama’s plans on many of these issues are thing or wishy washy.

I completely disagree with his approach to health care.

I believe his approach to foreign policy is naïve (and trust me I’ve had very long conversations with a friend of mine who is quite smart in the area of foreign policy and she agrees). Also I saw five retired generals standing behind Hillary yesterday throwing their support behind her as Commander-in-Chief as she detailed her plans for HOW she will fight terrorism, keep the country safe, and do what she’s been doing for many many many years now promoting women’s and human rights around the world. I don’t see them standing behind Barack as he discusses how he will fight terrorism and spread Human rights…oh because he just says he WILL do it not HOW he will do it and as I said before when he gets specific on the issue he comes across as either 1) a flip flopper – Cuba and Palestine or 2) naïve – Meeting with preliminary diplomatic efforts with Iran, Cuba, etc and/or bombing Pakistan.

4) We agree

Where I absolutely will agree with you is that he has run a better campaign. My only caveat to you is that it was NOT a “different kind of politics” campaign. It was the “same old politics” campaign – just like Hillary’s campaign and just like McCain’s. And remember…right now…within his own party his majority is a “slim majority” – let’s see what happens when he gets to the general.

All he has done is run a better campaign. Now let's see if that translates into being a better President. I know many of you think it will. If he does get elected, I for one hope you are right - but I hate to gamble it's why I haven't been to Vegas since 1993 - so my own practicalities are at play for me "personally" in making this decision.

Wendy: Did you see the Ellen Degeneres pop-in to a Hillary rally? Did somebody already post this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A9DkhPiEvc

Some of my friends are finished with Ellen since the whole dog crying thing but I still love her because she is REAL.

pogo,

In the federal gov't there is a thing known as FLASA. It has to do with the way the federal gov't pays certain employees for working in excess of your 40 hour week. Instead of paying you time an a half, you are paid a flat 25% of your base pay. Sounds good as long as you don't work over 50 hours weeks.but because of the job we often worked 60 to 80 hour weeks.Time and a half was paid only under certain circumstances; the work had to be pre-scheduled and had to be recurring within the same pay period. I know it sounds confusing, but that is the fed gov't for you.Some how, some way, some one got looking into FLASA regulations and found out the gov't was not paying us accordingly under FLASA, so the law suit evolved. The DC law firm of Bernstein & Lipsett represent the plaintiffs. Stephen S. Adams v. United States of America, case # 90-162C.

And Finally in response to this:

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/02/clintons-tactical-switchhittin.html#comment-42371

You called Hillary and me both bulls and men because we stand up for what we believe in and because we are loyal to the people and ideals we support.

You also say that I'm like you...but your entire post seems to insinuate that it's ok for YOU to have those qualities because you are a man but that because Hillary and I are women we should be more easily...swayed...?

BTW - I have been hugely influenced by many women in my life as well - just as you have been - and from those women, I learned to be strong, loyal and just as Hillary has done stand up for Women's Rights - especially their right to stand firm in their ideals and not give in just because some man thinks we should or because it would make me . . . softer and more palatable to him.

Thanks for the insight into your Taoism and Feminist philosophy...very helpful.

Almost every time I've turned on MSNB the past couple of days, my first thought is the SNL line about the media all being "in the tank for Obama."

What happened to the "watchdogs of democracy"?

wendy - Maybe Bush is part Border Collie?

"When I say I'm confident, I am so because I understand the mentality of the American people," Bush said. "And I understand the mentality of our candidates."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080226/ap_on_el_pr/bush_governors?unlikely

MCain will crush Obama in the general election. Obama has already played and presented all he has to offer, McCain hasn't even started. It will become unpatriotic to vote for "inexperience" while we have troops in combat.

Wendy,

Well said!

warren wrote: "Don't kid yourself. Your potential vote for some undetermined 3rd-party candidate is essentially a vote for McCain and all the policies you supposedly abhor."

Can you guys come up with a shiny new argument for this one - we've heard it - I can't speak for ET but it's not working on me.

Oh and save the "blood on my hands" argument too - heard that one.

Anything else?

Patsi paraphrased:

"But for me the money quote came from a young, Harvard educated caller, a black woman and registered Republican. She said she voted for Hillary because of the sexism that for her had a level of violence to it. (her word)"

Wow - that's pretty powerful. It touches on feelings I've had but have not been able to express.

Zumper - 11:37 post - I've been saying that since the Kennedy endorsement.

Jeez Wendy - how much coffee have you had today. Just kidding. And please don't read to much into my "bull" comment. I think this is a trait found in both women and men - and I have not seen many people who exemplify this trait more than my own mom. You need to be ready to fight for what you believe in.

But I think every positive trait can be overdone to the point that it becomes negative. I don't think your support of Hillary has reached that point at all - even if you do seem a bit condescending at times (heck - so do I). But I think Hillary's campaign has acted a bit stubborn at times to its own fault. I have seen her and her surrogates labeling people that don't agree with them as "dumb." I think they have so convinced themselves that she is the best for the job - that they often forget they need to convince other people. That cannot always be done by sheer will alone...and insults don't help much either.

Warren wrote: "Don't get me started on Hill's foreign policy address"

No please start - we're here having a discussion - feel free to get started. I'd like to hear your views on it - specifics please.

HarborW..... glad you came out of your lurk mode..... Sam sounds like a wonderful young man....

we know someone close to his age with Aspergers named Tyler..... Rick used to work with his father..... Ron still skis with Rick occasionally and always brings Tyler along......

we will be going to our timeshare in northern NH this coming Saturday and Ron and Tyler always show up for a day of skiing...... he's a delightful young man too.....

You know those signs on bumpers:

Bush 2004
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for him

Think McCain OR Obama and someone who wants to vote third party. In a few years they can fill their bumpers.

Don't blame me. I didn't vote for him.

Thanks Fry!

Wendy,

Obama supporters can not defend Obama's positions, because Obama hasn't bothered to fully explain them. His supporters are relying on blind faith of the Obama mystique. Details, why are you so concern about details, they will all be explained after Barry occupies the WH.

Warren:

I agree with you - as I said in my post - Obama has run a better campaign.

But keep in mind - when you run for an office like President, you better darn well be convinced that you are the absolute right person for the job because it is obviously not an easy thing to do - her supporters and campaign workers need to be convinced too. I appear to fault them for that - I don't. So on this point we disagree.

BTW - the bull comment didn't upset me - it was the insinuation that women should be a certain way to be more palatable or that if they are stubborn...like men...then it's a strike against them. I have lived with this my entire life, Warren. Strong women are bitches/strong men are well...strong men. Women have been defined too long by the patriarchy. Women need to define themselves now. I've seen from this election that we have a long long way to go in this area.

Here is something you may want to think about should BO get elected this Nov. Under what conditions will prevent BO from pulling our troops out of Iraq?

blueINdallas:

;-)

Warren - I meant

You appear to fault them for that.

Maybe I have had too much coffee...or not enough...

I'm going to go get some and test this out.

Fry,

I know of 3 times I either linked or actually put his positions out there for you and the rest to see.

Dog has done it at least twice and I KNOW Warren has been very consistant in making sure YOU are WELL EDUCATED.

Any Questions? Google cause its out there ;0)

warren, the cold hard facts are that Obama has no practicial agenda, just words. Words will not make it when serious problems arise in the WH. Hillary has been there, she has address issues, met with heads of state from around the world. People forget that she is also liked around the country and respected.
Obama has absolutely NO experience of any kind. That is why he cannot give details, just flowering words. When asked questions at a news conference he tends to stammer because it is not scripted. Please listen carefully to his WORDS or lack of.

Wendy:

I will get into it - but I don't have the time right now. This is because Foreign Policy deserves to be discussed at length - not through cheap one liners that degrade the debate.

And all I have seen on the news from Hill's so-called manifesto were distortions of Obama's positions. And your post did not provide much insight beyond the fact that there were a bunch of generals willing to sign on and your "Yes We Can" attitude about Hillary.

I think plenty of generals signed on to the Bush Doctrine - so forgive me for not doing a 180 and agreeing with you - despite your lack of detail.

But briefly, I do not think it is naive to start meeting with leaders of Iran and Syria right away. The stability of Iraq and dealing with the refugee situation sooner rather than later - are in the interests of all parties.

I have to deal with plenty of lawyers that are so-called enemies. And often you need to have a lot of meetings before you actually get something done. So I think putting off meetings is putting off progress.

I can't tell these lawyers that I will not meet with them unless the accept my "preconditions" (i.e., demands). That is what we discuss at the meetings - in addition to COMMON interests!! Often the "demands" of each side will have to be tabled - but we will agree on other issues to move the case forward.

Yes Sheila I read all those bullet points, and that is what they are, bullet points. Just fantastic. Where is the meat? There are none and certain members of the MSM are starting to pick-up on that fact. HRC at least has details to her plan, she speaks of them, BO makes campaign speeches. I don't necessarily agree with HRC but at least she has details. All BO has is popularity, no details, no substance to his endless rhetoric. Jack Jacobs pegged BO correctly this morning on Imus. Popularity without substance.

Pogo....
BTW.... that "Spanish Inquisition" was a joke taken from a famous Monty Python skit.....

you were supposed to laugh at it.....

sorry if you didn't get the reference...... I'm a HUGE fan!

Some house keeping...

1. Bill Clinton will be appearing on the North Side of Fort Worth Today at 4 PM.
2. Thursday, Obama will be at the Fort Worth Convention Center.

I will attend both events and I will do my best to get pictures or to provide an idea of the event.

I am curious how many people will ask me if I am in the Nation of Islam if I wear a bow tie, so if you see a black man in a self tied bow tie, odds are it's me.

I still think it's funny everyone thinks Obama is nothing but an empty shirt. At what point will people realize that the electorate looks at that more as a blank slate than a detriment. One of the hallmarks of the Bush admin were the years of experience. It got us nowhere.

When McCain starts to mock the idea of hope and change, I hope Obama will be brave enough to point out that without hope, McCain and his fellow POW's would have never endured their torture to be the successes they are today.

Hope put a man on the moon, "allegedly"
Hope and change may sound empty, but every great accomplishment in this country's history occurred because someone hoped for something better and they were inspired to change things to get there.

CNN online poll echoes smears by asking if Obama "show[s] the proper patriotism"

"Summary: A CNN online poll asked: "Does [Sen.] Barack Obama show the proper patriotism for someone who wants to be president of the United States?" The Politico's Ben Smith wrote: "[I]t's odd to see the mainstream media drive a largely whispered question that none of his main, named critics -- Hillary, McCain or the RNC -- will touch."

http://mediamatters.org/items/200802250002?f=h_top

C'mon Wendy - before Obama started to become a real threat - all I heard from Hillary was about how she was better than Bush - in response to everything and often without prompting. She would talk more about Bush than the Republicans.

She finally realized being someone other than Bush was not going to be enough. Too little too late...

If I were a supporter of HRC and Fry Daddy was openly supporting me with his history as a dyed in the wool Republican, it would give me pause as to why he would do so.

Is it because he thinks HRC is the easier of the Dems to beat or what is the reason.

yo soy Horsedooty!

Horse- same goes for Limbaugh et al- their only chance for GOP unity is with a Clinton at the top of a ticket

Bear
"I still think it's funny everyone thinks Obama is nothing but an empty shirt."
not everyone, but a minority of those who have voted so far perhaps

Frydaddy,

How is this for blind faith...

9/11, 9/11, terrorism, Iraq has oil, Hussein has weapons, 9/11 9/11. I am a war time president who will overspend while doing diddly to raise the money I need to pay for my war...MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

Yet the Republicans bought all that crap hook line and sinker to delude themselves into believing W is the greatest ever.

I don't know of any major failures in Obama's record. W's was littered with them before he ran and his smear machine made people think it was their faults W was an idiot, not his.

Hillary has her healthcare debacle.

If Karl Rove were running again McCain, not only would he run ads of McCain at drunken orgies sponsored by lobbyists or tie him to shamed aviator Duke Cunningham, I would say it was his poor piloting skills that got him shot down to begin with. It was his fault he was a POW, just like the right said Kerry wounded himself to pad his resume.

SHipmate,

ALl I hear from you are calls for someone to spoon feed you the information. I found everything I needed.

So like I said, "Google"......Obama's Website for hours of reading.....spoon feed yourself.

All you need to know about why Hillary has run the worst campaign ever...

She doesn't have full delegate slates in Pennsylvania. They were so confident that the race would be over by now that they didn't bother to get full slates. Even if she wins an area overwhelmingly, she still gives Obama room to pick up delegates just because he has full slates.

That is the political equivalent of when Leon Lett was hot dogging a fumble return in the Super Bowl against the Bills. Don Beebe made a great hustle play to keep Lett from scoring. Clinton has made it so that she is fumbling on her own and that is god awful...

Doots

Good Point about Frydaddy,

I remember some great lines from Frydaddy about Bill and his paramours and how Hillary was just using him to get the Presidency....

Seemed to really make for passionate response.

Warren wrote: "But briefly, I do not think it is naive to start meeting with leaders of Iran and Syria right away. The stability of Iraq and dealing with the refugee situation sooner rather than later - are in the interests of all parties."

Hillary in her foreign policy speech doesn't disagree that diplomatic relations need to be opened up with these and other countries that Bush has closed us off from. She believes however that diplomacy is a process and pre-conditions have to be met. She was very detailed in her speech. Again - I trust Hillary's view on this and believe Obama's is naive - so we disagree - but that's why you support him and I support her and find it difficult to support him.

And just to finish - negotiation in court is very different from negotiating internationally with governments.

Here is her entire speech if you haven't seen it.

Yes, she does pop him a bit - and yes I'm sure that's all the media focused on so you can't go by that.

http://www.c-span.org/politics/default.aspx

top of list next to video. Probably you won't watch it - but for others that might be interested it's there.

Bear,

Nice try. Lets try to stick with BO questions. No details, on economic, foreign policy, domestic policy, national security.

Bo is similar to an Armani suit hanging on a mannequin. It looks nice.

Warren wrote: "Too little too late..." we don't disagree.

"peeps"

Is that word still used in your crowd?

One last point on meeting with our enemies:

The trait that so many of you Hillary supporters claim to despise - the ability to speak intelligently on an issue without locking himself into a position (that could eventually turn out to be unfavorable to US interests) - will serve Obama well in such meetings.

It is also one of the things that made Bill Clinton such an effective President.

FryDaddy

You can't blame the Obama supporters - they learned from the best how to deflect a question away from themselves and their own views by trying to portray someone else in a negative light.

LOL

Wendy!

We learned a long time ago to treat Fry with dignaty while we are deflecting his BS. LOL

"Probably you won't watch it - but for others that might be interested it's there."

Get off your high horse Wendy. I enjoy listening to people I don't agree with. You don't learn anything by bouncing talking points off of a choir. Why the heck do you think I searched out this blog in the first place - because I thought Craig was in the tank for Obama??!!

I am off to the gym.

BTW,

Obama has also learned that he can speak better to crowds of hungry citizins that want to know more. He speaks to them about his positions and they are accepting it.

Now I know you guys will say like a broken record that he speaks like the second coming (so I'll say it for you) and therefore has no substance.

But that is no OUR fault you guys just don't want to take it all in.

In the end, it won't matter either.

NIce try to you Fry,

You just want to tear down whomever you perceive as a threat by using the failings of the people you support, as a weapon and to quote Fritz, that's a 6 sigma red herring, blah blah blah...

People are pissed of at Obama because he is using a positive message instead of trying to tear the others down.

It's funny that you use the reference of him being an Armani suit because when you see one hanging on the mannequin, you know you have to have it...I see Obama and I know I have to have him as my president.

You can take your Hagar suit, I'll take the Armani any day.

Great Warren - I look forward to your response then

:-D

Have fun at the gym.

"The trait that so many of you Hillary supporters claim to despise - the ability to speak intelligently on an issue without locking himself into a position (that could eventually turn out to be unfavorable to US interests) - will serve Obama well in such meetings"

It hasn't served him well so far.
He is great in set speechs but gets himself into trouble when he trys to talk policy off the cuff.

Thus people keep pointing mistakes out to you and you keep ignoring them.
Pretending they didn't happen??

Your man is getting better about not putting his foot in his mouth. but he needs more work.

Jack

I look forward to writing it ; )

Thanks!

Patsi

you made me chuckle.

:-D

Sheila,

To bad you can't answer any of the questions on what BO will do, and those questions are not just coming from me. There are a number of people on this blog asking the same question, so you can think my questions are BS, but what about your fellow Democrats? Wendy made all the obvious observation about BO that is needes answering. He is so lacking of any substance, but he is your guy not mine. When Col Jack Jacobs, a Dem, calls him an empty suit on economics and national security, I tend to listen.

Fry,

Then count me as very limited and shallow.

Dodd's just jumping on the perceived gravy train.

Not fair.

What matters is the vote to authorize the war, Bush's decision to go to war, and then Bush's incompetence in carrying it out. The idea that congress can effect good Iraq policy by denying funding has never been feasible.

"The handshake heard round the world took place in April, 2004, at the Ritz-Carlton Hotel in Chicago between Barack Obama and a mysterious London billionaire named Nadhmi Auchi.

And yet the handshake by Mr. Obama, a vivid opponent of the Iraq war, did more than look away from the fact that Mr. Auchi had a Baathist party past in Iraq that was associated with Saddam Hussein and a present that was associated with felony in France and unusual schemes in free Iraq. Mr. Obama's handshake also meant that the candidate was willing to entangle himself in the strange connection between Mr. Auchi and Mr. Obama's long time supporter and fund-raiser Mr. Rezko."

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=25193#continueA

Bear,
"People are pissed of at Obama because he is using a positive message instead of trying to tear the others down."

Wrong. Not sure if people are pissed at BO. I think what bothers many D is his lack of specifics. Plus he has run a negative campaign, and with the help of the MSM has smeared HRC everytime she dares challenge him.

Renee, Pogo,

To keep up with the Monty Python theme, how great would it be if you could get Gravel, Nader and a couple of other yutz's to join HRC and BHO on stage to redo the Batley Townswomen's Guild's re-enactment of 'The Battle of Pearl Harbour'.

Bear, you arrange it and I'll guarantee an audience.

GORDO,

You are posting a link about someone guy who hasn't fellated Obama or smoked crack with him? YOu feeling OK? Do we need to call 911 for you?

"The trait that so many of you Hillary supporters claim to despise - the ability to speak intelligently on an issue without locking himself into a position (that could eventually turn out to be unfavorable to US interests) - will serve Obama well in such meetings. "

Oh yeah....I can't wait until he switches into his Call Me Joshua preacher persona at a Middle East summit. They'll definitely genuflect.

Which Monty Python skit or movie scene would be the most fun to recreate?

I have always liked the French sentry at the castle...I always laugh when I hear "I clear my nose in your general direction" that and "I'm not dead yet" just kill me...

the Republicans are reading this blog with uncontained glee because they want this kind of animosity to pervade the general elections in November and the old man will be in the White House and all our kids will be in the Middle East. Oh, and your house and car and job will be gone and we will be annexed by China, so better start practicing with your chopsticks, because that's where the economy is going.

"So I think putting off meetings is putting off progress."

Warren,

That is a complete misstatement of what she said. Presidents don't hop on a plane and go visit a head of state until a whole lot of meetings and negotiations take place. They then go to finalize the last of the details and sign or present an agreement.

Patsi,

I don't want this to sound snide but why would you pick Joshua over Jesus in that case? I don't know the old testament well so I don't know if I'm missing something in your reference or just over reading it...

Bear, that is a classic - I always liked the Cheese Shop. Oh, bring me a shrubbery.

I know Andrea Mitchell has something like 38 years on me...but what a FOX!

pogo,

I earlier posted my reply to your question about the law suit.

Sheila,

You said it, I didn't. I never thought you as shallow. I do find it surprising you are not willing to look beyond the image.

We are no longer going to post anything else on Larry Sinclair Matter 2/26/2008 2:35 PM

"After the events of yesterday and this morning we will no longer be posting the video of the Polygraph testing or the secondary Polygrapher Expert’s results.
To be accused of taking a bribe to suppress this story along with all of the hate mail and messages sent by Larry Sinclair supporters who believe we did something to taint the results has been very disturbing.

No matter what we put up it will never be good enough for his supporters. Mr. Sinclair was also given every opportunity to let us talk to the limousine driver to corroborate his story and he failed to do so. This will be the last post on this matter as this matter needs to be put to bed. We will be going back to regular reporting."
reposted from whitehouse.com

Hey G-man, looks like your bud Larry had a bad day.:-)

Joe S.

Do you wear glasses?

If Obama had the nerve, he would have Fishbone perform this live at an event and make it his new campaign theme song...

http://www.hitslyrics.com/f/fishbone-lyrics-1524/change-lyrics-70524.html

Bear said "I am curious how many people will ask me if I am in the Nation of Islam if I wear a bow tie, so if you see a black man in a self tied bow tie, odds are it's me"

The fellows I see here, who I think are Nation of Islam, don't wear self-ties.

Why are Obama groupies so sensitive? Afraid the "FANTASY" will explode if you hear something negative about Saint Barack?

I'd rather think on this than revisiting the same snag in the wax over and over again.

This is for you Colleen!

http://www.americanprogressaction.org/progressreport

EMPLOYMENT FOR DEFENSE CONTRACTORS: Last week, President Bush stated that the Iraq war has nothing to do with the faltering economy. "I think actually the spending in the war might help with jobs...because we're buying equipment, and people are working," he said. The Iraq war has created jobs -- for the administration's defense contractor allies. Bush's most recent budget is a windfall for contractors. Between 2000 and 2005, procurement was the "fastest growing component of federal discretionary spending." Five years after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, however, national unemployment is going up. Between December 2006 and December 2007, the national unemployment rate increased by 13.6 percent in seasonally adjusted terms, from 4.4 to 5.0 percent

Wendy, just read your 12:40 series.

Passion and loyalty--two marvelous strengths!

Bear, of course Joshua was chosen because of his ability to lead and inspire his followers and troops. John Boy and Billy have a comic on their radio show periodically who does a hilarious sketch as the Reverand Billy Ray Collins From The Sword Of Joshua Independent Full-Gospel Pentecostal Assembly, just off State Road 23 on The Frontage Road. Among the things he preaches about are Joshua leading the Hebrews in the Battle of Geritol and he notes that the greatest miracle in the Bible is when Joshua told his son to stand still and he obeyed him. There can be no question why Joshua was chosen over Jesus Christ for his ability to lead and inspire.

Bear,

Im just a troll trying to lighten the mood :-)

F.y.i., I respect your insightful comments you add to the board

Fry Daddy,

Do you live in TX?

Another segment of the link.

NEGLECTING DOMESTIC PRIORITIES: "At a time of mounting deficits, when we are spending about $10 billion a month in Iraq, issues such as reforming the health-care system and repairing the national infrastructure are likely to remain neglected," write John Podesta and Lawrence J. Korb of the Center for American Progress and Ray Takeyh of the Council on Foreign Relations in today's Washington Post. "The United States has too many national priorities that cannot be realized if yet another beleaguered administration prolongs this costly and unpopular war." Indeed, Bush seems to deem domestic priorities as "excessive spending." He recently vetoed a bill to provide expanded health insurance for 10 million children, and then requested $172 billion more for the war. When the Senate passed a broad stimulus package that offered an extension of unemployment benefits and help for borrowers caught in subprime loans, the White House again called it unaffordable government spending.

Fry, I saw that and replied.

And one more and very important to me.

RISING COST OF VETERANS CARE: While the Bush administration is devoting considerable resources to the conflict in Iraq, it is paying less attention to what happens when U.S. troops return home. A recent American Journal of Public Health study estimated that in 2004, "nearly 1.8 million veterans were uninsured and unable to get care in veterans' facilities." This number has jumped dramatically since 2000, when there were 290,000 uninsured veterans. Recently discharged veterans are also "having a harder time finding civilian jobs and are more likely to earn lower wages for years." These costs will only continue to grow the longer the United States remains in Iraq. VoteVets has released a new ad on conservatives' misplaced priorities here

Well thank you...

I get ridiculed because I have a thing for Barbara Walter and Martha Stewart...(I am a boob man) which explains why I am drawn to politics I think...lol

Let's just say AM has some challenges...I would still love to know how she ended up with Alan Greenspan though...

God, what would happen to us as a people if Washington DC had the same problems with sex tapes as Hollywood? How much money could you make from people paying you not to show the tapes? lol

i think if Jesus Christ was running for the Democratic nomination, the idiots would still flock to Obama

thanks, SHEILA! for bringing up what I think was the original focus of Craig's Trail Mix today.

EuroTom,

With regards to Jesus...has there ever been a Jewish POTUS?

As you can see, this country will shy away from non christians whenever possible when it comes to voting for President...

ET..

You forgot about the Jewish and Muslim communities...but that doesn't surprise me....

Welcome Colleen!!!!

Bear....I know Andrea and her story.

She was emailing Greenspan for a story. After the story she kept emailing him. It turned into a regular correspondence for about 5 years and they finally met.

They both feel in love through the written word.....ahhh!

Sheila,

for a couple of years the Iraq war did indeed put a few beans on the table.
The company my wife worked for had several contracts in both Afganistan and Iraq.
Interesting public story.
They have worked for years with AID and had an Engineer with contacts in Afganistan at the end of the war. He crossed Afganistan doing a survey of the road damage and the needed repair in just his car and a helper. They turned this over to the gvernment at no charge. It was used in a lot of the reconstruction that followed.
You couldn't do that now, too dangerous.

my wife now works for a different company that doesn't go after contracts that will put their employees in harms way. Government money is still putting beans on the table tho.

Jack

Experience, and Experiences (of the Rezko sort)

"Prosecutors have alleged that the money came from fees Rezko illegally siphoned from a state pension board. [Someone I know is researching the “coincidence” that during the three-plus months that Illinois State Sen. Barack Obama was appointed to the senate’s pension committee — just three months — the senate prevented the consolidation of state pensions, which would have adversely affected Rezko’s pensions schemes, that bilked millions from the state pensions. The bald facts are there, but my friend is still digging for details. - SusanUnPC]"

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/26/experience-and-experiences-of-the-rezko-sort/#more-1635

Jack,

I heard that froma number of sourses. Not quite a few people are turned off and no amount of money will make them go to either country without stability in play.

My Ex is a bomb expert. Was in Iraq for 3 years. Won't go back to either iraq or Afganistan.

Sheila--Love conquers all!

Horsedooty I've been a LIFELONG democrat.. I don't have to defend my credentials. I am so disgusted with Barack Obama that I would rather vote for someone else than him...

Jack, good for your wife and her company and all the companies that don't blindly perpetuate this obscene war.

Arghh, Sheila, should have said relative to the Greenspans!

"There are new developments regarding the Obamas’ home purchase, a sweetheart of a deal, that directly involved Tony Rezko, who was already under intense federal investigation, and Rezko’s wife. As you’ll see below, several newspapers are reporting Tony Rezko tried to get a state appointment for the real estate agent who did the home sale/purchase, and that an Iraqi/British billionaire involved with Rezko “lent millions of dollars to Barack Obama’s fundraiser just weeks before an imprudent land deal that has returned to haunt the presidential contender.”

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/26/experience-and-experiences-of-the-rezko-sort/#more-1635

ET..

You forgot about the Jewish and Muslim communities...but that doesn't surprise me....

Posted by: GWBIII | February 26, 2008 3:02 PM

TROLL !!!! :-)

What's there to say about the Jewish and Muslim communities? I doubt the Prophet Mohammed would get elected POTUS....

I don't know a lot about Jewish faith....

ET,
"i think if Jesus Christ was running for the Democratic nomination, the idiots would still flock to Obama"

Have you noticed that none of the Obama supporters here have said "I think if Jesus Christ was running for the Democratic nomination, the idiots would still flock to Hillary."

The condescension in the Klinton Kool-Aid Kamp is deplorable. Fortunately not all of her supporters are so petty as to resort to ad hominem attacks.

Oh, god. RFLMAO

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/26/julianne-moore-movie-cast_n_88559.html

Thank you Sheila...

Have you noticed that none of the Obama supporters here have said "I think if Jesus Christ was running for the Democratic nomination, the idiots would still flock to Hillary."

Posted by: dnd | February 26, 2008 3:23 PM

You just did ! :) But Hillary isn't presenting herself as this walking on water evangelist short of specifics but high on motivational speeches. Heck, if he loses the election, maybe he can join J.Z. Knight in Yelm Washington to channel 25,000 year old spirits to enlighten the masses.

The other spelling also works.

Pogo...Mr WV,

Thinking about it? Wow, in all seriousness. Is it really as inbred as they are saying?

The condescension in the Klinton Kool-Aid Kamp is deplorable. Fortunately not all of her supporters are so petty as to resort to ad hominem attacks.

Posted by: dnd | February 26, 2008 3:23 PM

As opposed to your condescension and name calling.

LOLOL Oh Gosh! Jack a good one!

ok just for the record, I am not Ad Hominem :-)

"I don't want this to sound snide but why would you pick Joshua over Jesus in that case? I don't know the old testament well so I don't know if I'm missing something in your reference or just over reading it..."

Okay, Bear...I'll tell you the day I nearly fell off my chair. Obama was talking about MLK, and his dream of a promised land. Then he started talking about picking up the banner of Joshua and how "they" said "we can't have hope."

When Moses died, Joshua was the Chosen One to take His People to the promised land. When I realized what Obama was doing I nearly died. He'd been annointed to complete MLK's dream. He was sending a message out to black churches as clearly as when Bush goes into his Godspeak. And I knew that Obama had been very careful to distance himself in national events from many black causes.

I have to tell you that I really hate that sort of thing from a candidate. Coming from MLK religious allusions were beautiful, but running for office is another matter....and that is why I get so disgusted with the quasi religiosity of all this.

Ad Hominem,

Hit and runs are just usually ignored. Dnd has been a round a long while and he is respected.

Just letting you know. Come and post regularly instead of hit and run and you will probably become respected too.

This is the sort of thing that makes you wonder what is happening with kids

http://www.wtopnews.com/?sid=1352050&nid=104

Even the father of one isn't backing these two

http://www.wlwt.com/news/15403663/detail.html

What do you do with a dangerous child when you think you've done everything possible?

Ad Hominem,

Hit and runs are just usually ignored. Dnd has been a round a long while and he is respected.

Just letting you know. Come and post regularly instead of hit and run and you will probably become respected too.

Posted by: Sheila The Chef Nun | February 26, 2008 3:35 PM

Snarky! ;0)

I get so disgusted with the quasi religiosity of all this.

Posted by: Patsi | February 26, 2008 3:34 PM

I was going to say "amen sister"... but caught the irony of the statement. I totally agree Patsi. I really hate the "revival tent" atmosphere he brings in his rallies. TOTAL TURN OFF.. I want a secular leader of a secular country...

Sheila a lot of people you say are respected are often themselves not so "respectful"....

Sheila, you should visit a Walmart in say, Elkins or Buckhannon. It's sobering, not to mention frightening.

Jamie,

Worse than disgusting...I don't know what to say. How have we raised such children?

"Coming from MLK religious allusions were beautiful, but running for office is another matter."

And MLK was an ordained minister. Senator Obama is a politician.

Patsi, and don't forget that Joshua led the Israelites in the battle of Geritol! LOL

Tom,

Well you certainly go me. Listen, dnd is a great disussin person. you will get a lot out of him. But like the rest of us,

He's allowed to get his dander up....lord knows we've listened to your passion ;0)

LIfe long Democrat that seems to bail when he doesn't get his way. Typical from my point of view.

ET go soak your head. You too are a troll. Lots of nerve to waltz in here and after a few weeks think you tell someone to go find another site. Might I recommend you doing the same thing. Or maybe come back to the US and participate in the economy here.

yo soy Horsedooty!

"I was going to say "amen sister"... but caught the irony of the statement. "

ROFL! Irony is good.

Jamie,

I am a firm believer in ass whoopings for snot nose little punk brats. They want to act like animals, treat them as such.

Patsi...were Obama to win the election, wouldn't he be able to make that comparison? I agree that it was a jarring reference, but it seems more grounded in sorta fact than what most candidates come up with...

google obama+rezko

HD, I kinda like ET, but geez, kids these days. You tell them why their thinkin' all wrong, and they just ignore you. Darn whippwersnappers.

Oh, and BTW, there is also a senate race (races, actually) in Nov. Here's some decent looking news.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/25/125335/309

And is anyone else having problems with the 'net this afternoon or should I look closer to home for the problem?

Ralph Nader detractors just don't get it.
Ralph Nader has a right to run for President.
It was not his fault Gore "lost" Florida in 2000...it was the exponentially huge number of DEMOCRATS who voted for BUSH. That's if you are throwing bricks; if you throw bricks somebody can throw some back at you.
Florida 2000 is a story unto itself, but it wasn't Nader who lost it...those people might have voted for Bush anyway if they hated Gore so much. We all know the faulty, confusing nature of exit polls. One pundit we all know very well totally disregards them.

Oh boy, duelling google searches. dede de de de de de de de.

" Or maybe come back to the US and participate in the economy here."

Doots! Does this mean I can get a bumper sticker that reads: America -- Love It or Get The Hell Back!

(just kidding)

Pogo...and I always thought all the inbreeding was waaaayyyy in the past in WV. I won't look at the Tshirts the same way ever again.

Even with a threat of no electricity, I've had no problem with the NET today.

What do you do with a dangerous child when you think you've done everything possible?

Posted by: jamie | February 26, 2008 3:35 PM

I just watched a news video on this case. How disgusting. It seems to me that each generation creates a new breed of psychopathic behaviors... The world is filled with horrible people that it really does make one wonder what the heck is happening here? Society needs to change. That's all I can say.

checkin' in here, pogo....internet sailing along at warp speed.

Did yas hear about the big blackout in Florida?...also, huge schools of sharks are convening along Florida beaches.
Wassup, crackers?

Bear....
I LOVE that scene from the Holy Grail too...... I die every time the French sentry says "I fart in your general direction"..... I really love the lumber jack song too... and the Ministry of Silly Walks.... I also love it when the People's Judean Front and the Judean People's Front meet in front of the Roman guards..... it kinda reminds me of this blog.....

but.... but.... Colleeeeen (said in as whiny as possible voice)..... I really love Chinese food.... ;0)

Dooty..... come on.... someone needs to get his funny bone tickled....
I know you can laugh..... I've seen you do it before..... :0}

pogo,

ET looks like a child in a mans suit. Has a very high opinion of his wit and of his opinion. Comes off to me like a petulant little man boy who stamps his feet when he doesn't get his way. Mostly a quitter.

yo soy Horsedooty!

Pogo I sort of like you too !!! :-) Actually you are witty, intelligent, funny, and a pleasure to read. My other favs are (in no particular order) Jamie, Patsi, Wendy, Renee, Ally... and others I forget.

Cheers...

Patsi,

it is just these new drivebys that won't even live in the US and think they have all the answers. F'em is what I say.

yo soy Horsedooty!

Doots you have a way with words. ;0)

Cunningham smeared Obama, used his middle name during appearance at McCain rally

"Summary: The MSNBC.com blog First Read reported that conservative radio host Bill Cunningham "repeatedly referred to [Sen. Barack] Obama as Barack Hussein Obama -- at least three times." Cunningham has a history of smearing Obama and referring to him as "Barack Hussein Obama," doing so on Hannity's America and his own nationally syndicated show."

http://mediamatters.org/items/200802260005?f=h_latest

Horsedooty you seem to flame anyone who doesn't agree with you... Earlier it was Gordo, now it's me... who's next?

Are you always this nasty, or haven't you been getting any lately?

BO will rule like Bush with Kennedy,Kerry,Durbin pulling his strings like Cheney and Rove did.They will put him in front of the press to stutter and stammer like Bush.The only difference is that he will be able to pronounce the words.He has the same smug arrogance an swagger.He will fit right in.I too may vote for Nader.HE made a lot of sense on meet the press.Now is the time For Bloomberg to jump in.Give us some options.Obama and Mc Cain just don ' t do it for me

ET

just you and Gordo

yo soy Horsedooty!

Patsi,

it is just these new drivebys that won't even live in the US and think they have all the answers. F'em is what I say.

yo soy Horsedooty!
Posted by: Horsedooty! | February 26, 2008 4:07 PM

Hoorsedooty, I don't know you, and the more you talk I don't want to. You are a sniper, not with a gun but with words. You might think you are correct and those who don't agree with you don't have your level of "intellect" whatever.

But I am an AMERICAN... It is my birthright, and as I won't tell you not to say what you believe, I think your personal attacks go beyond the pale of decency. I don't believe I have been attacking you. If attacking me makes you feel better, well that says nothing about me and a lot about yourself.

If you want me out of here, write to Craig...

yo Soy ET

:-) oh Bri Bri, I feel so loved... muah, muah !!!

EuroTom,

This is a friendly reminder that our host has a swear jar. Expletives require at least a $1 contribution to the cause. I believe Craig uses the money in lieu of getting an AFLAC policy to cover his incidental medical expenses. Did you notice the fancy cast he was wearing in his video posts?

Texas Republicans Plan to Scuttle Clinton

... .. "The argument I've seen is, 'Let's get rid of Clinton once and for all,' " said Ralph Bordie, who conducts the IVR Poll in Texas.

Bordie's latest statewide poll released last week found that 15 percent of Texas Republicans who said they will support the GOP nominee in November plan nonetheless on voting for Obama next week.

Debi McLoughlin, a 52-year-old Department of Public Safety worker who was waiting while her daughter had her hair cut, said she usually supports Republicans. But she is likely to declare herself a Democrat so she can choose Obama.

... .. "I don't want her in the final choice," said Berkner, who added she will vote for McCain in the general election. ... ."

http://www.taylormarsh.com/

Dooty....
you have been cranky lately....
now what do I have to do...... should we switch Muppet positions and I shoot you out of the cannon..... hmmmmm.....

your loving brother....

Oldtimers will recall Nader's Raiders and the impact they made.
Ralph really shook up the auto industry way back , about 44 years ago with "Unsafe at Any Speed".
That book focussed on the Corvair.
It's a fond memory, because my drivers training teacher was a Corvair devotee, and he was also a very witty guy, and he made these hilarious jokes about Nader and his book...but I read it and millions of others did, too, and soon a revolution commenced in the safety of automobiles.
Now, here in TrailMix and amongst my friends and relatives and acquaintances, Nader is regarded as a fool, the court jester.
"When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
~~~Jonathan Swift

Dex, I love ya, man, but nope. Sure, Nader has the right to run, but his draw is from voters who would more likely vote dem than rep, (in '00 it was well to do liberals) and was the same in '00. Most of the folks who voted for Nader in FL in '00 would never have voted for any republican, much less Dumya, on the issues. If Nader had not been on the ballot and only 538 of the 97,488 voters who voted for Nader had voted for the candidate most like the one they voted for, Gore would have won. Of course, Buchannon drew from Bush, but in much smaller numbers. I've never seen a credible postmortem analysis that suggested that FL would have gone to Dumya had Nadir not been in the race although I have seen such analyses that don't conclude that the votes would have gone to Gore. Even one of the most skeptical of the analyses put the projected split of those voters at 60/40 for Gore, which would have yielded a 20,000 vote victory for Gore.

http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/polisci/faculty/lewis/pdf/greenreform9.pdf

I'd link some more articles on that election but the 'net is not cooperating with me this afternoon.

GORDO,

I will vote for Mike Huckabee in the primary and then vote for whomever the Dem. is in November...

So your point is? I know, I know...Obama is smoking crack with gay hookers who are fellating him in the backs of limos while he is eating fried chicken? Is that about it???

Renee,

Wouldn't you agree that the reaction Nader is getting is similar to the Centurion's reaction anytime they heard the name Biggus Diccus? lol

Bear..... yes....

welease wodderwick!

Wow bear....very creative,,,,,was that you or someone else who wrote that little ditty?

Dex, I meant to add, you are right that is wasn't Nader who lost FL for Gore - it was Gore who didn't attract enough of the Nader voters, Harris who oversaw the vote, and the USSCt who gave the victory to Dumya. And they will rot in hell for that.

Didn't hear about the blackouts, but I did hear about the guy who died after a shark attack, but they said it was 50 miles east of Ft. Lauderdale - isn't that about half way to the Bahamas?

what film is that from???? Monty Python right?

Joke of the Day...

Five surgeons from big cities are discussing who makes the Best patients to operate on.
The first surgeon, from New York , says, "I like to see accountants on my operating table because when you open them up, everything inside is numbered."

The second, from Chicago , responds, "Yeah, but you should try electricians! Everything inside them is color coded."

The third surgeon, from Dallas , says, "No, I really think librarians are the best, everything inside them is in alphabetical order."

The fourth surgeon, from Los Angeles chimes in: "You know, I like construction workers... Those guys always understand when you have a few parts left over."

But the fifth surgeon, from Washington , DC shut them all up when he observed: "You're all wrong. Politicians are the easiest to operate on. There's no guts, no heart, no balls, no brains and no spine, and the head and the ass are interchangeable.

EuroTom:

No one had to warn me about you when I first arrived. I could tell right off the bat that you could be a real prick to anyone who questioned Her Hillaryness.

My hope for America and all of us here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS_wik3Rum8

Should Dems select the Dem nominee? Leave it to the "Dummycrats" to mess everything up.

Seems contradictory but despite the level of complaints about the religious tone of Obama's speeches and campaign, some of his best demographics are among the non-religious. in CA, SC and others i.e. he did the best of the 3 with those who never attend church.

Thank you Warren, care to send any more snipes at me... it seems to be the time for it, so get it all out...

gordo....You a republican? Did you lose yor percieved persona somewhere?

I'll wait. I don't like to pile on - but I couldn't resist.

Sheila,

To which ditty are you referring? I am hurt that you don't think I am that creative... : o (

lol

yeah well thanks for that warren... apparently I haven't been shot at enough in the last 1/2 hour here... Let's see, I am a prick, a troll, petulant, little man, quitter, pseudo-american, foot stamper ... have I missed anything? Anything else people might want to add to build up my ego?

Bear, I think it was the use of the word "Fellate" that got me lauging.

I thought it was such a treat, I just had to comment.

I remember it... I'm getting some whiskey...

Greener !

EuroTom:

You get back what you put out there my man.

EuroTom...why are you so angry today?

Thanks pogo for trying to educate me; I accept your input.
And hey, dude! You better get to Starbucks pronto if you want a post-work latte...apparently the CEO has heard enough complaints from high-dollar customers who have been complaining that the workers don't even know how to draw the shot.
I like the coffee beans from Starbucks, but Trader Joe's beans beat them all to hell, as does Dunkin' Donuts coffee for home brewing.
I quit Starbucks retails stores cuz of a clerk near the OSU Columbus campus who told me to whisper when I ordered my cappuccino..."can't you see these people are STUDYING!!?" C'mon! It was a retail STORE, not a damn library!!

Well ET,

I used the term Flip Flopper too. I don't want to be left out... ;0)

The video link of how the CEO has ordered all employees to learn how to draw the shot of espresso is on the Yahoo! home page, here unless it's been pulled...

http://www.yahoo.com/

Tom, don't forget kid & damn whippersnapper. :-{)

Gotta go - have a couple of board meetings to go to. Keep it civil, will ya?

sheila.. LOL, thanks for making me smile

give me time for the whiskey to do it's job... I liked the "greener" moniker. Linda, this whole election has reached a boiling point for me... I need to back off... it ain't worth it.

Cheers... EuroTroll out

Maybe this is it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaADnQzdyP8

I believe in Karma in a practical sense and hope there might be something more to it...

Corey,

You are crazy! Just what we needed!

Karma.....
Warren.... real life isn't an espisode of Lost..... well...... almost sometimes.... :)

seriously.... it looks like Kate had Sawyer's baby..... what's up with that...

I think life is a lot more like Lost than some of the other crap I see on TV. That was not Kate's baby....

My view on Karma is pretty simple. Generally speaking, the nicer you are to people - the more willing they will be to help you out in the future. The more bridges you burn - the more likely you will be an island unto yourself...

Is "unto" a real word?

One of the most beautiful Jimmy Webb penned and produced songs I have ever heard... I love it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy4yNCfkmWs

JUST THIS ONE TIME ... from 1975 Stars album... :-)

ET - please add:

wicked smart and wicked funny to your list of attributes

oh wait...were they supposed to be negative?

I can't think of any...sorry.

:-) Wendy thanks for that... That's sweet...

"Anything else people might want to add to build up my ego?"

A truly nice, generous man whose intelligence I respect and enjoy.

not Kate's baby..... hmmmm...... guess I'll have to keep watching....

that's a good definition....

yes..... "unto".... my dictionary says.....to it's various uses, except as the accompaniment of the infinitive..... until, till.....

I don't know why Euro Tom wouldn't be angry. He's been called every name in the damned book. It's been very personal, too.

oh.... ETom...
you haven't really gone....

I echo Wendy and Jamie..... I LOVE having you here....

"Obama is smoking crack with gay hookers who are fellating him in the backs of limos while he is eating fried chicken?"

Jezz, some people get to have all the fun,
Where's my whore?
Well?
I voted for him.
He could share you would think.

Not another vote until he shares with us.
I'm going to vote for McCain

RR:

Let me qualify since this is Lost - I don't think it was Kate's kid at the end of last week's episode. He was named Aaron.

I always knew Lenin would defend Stalin

Don't worry about me Wendy....sometimes you just work me up. Plus, I have to be angry once and awhile so you guys don't think I am some pansy that sits home alone and cries watching Juno. Hah!! Imagine that...

Ok the whiskey has done it's work...

For those I have offended, I assure you I wasn't trying to do so.
I can't help that I don't like Barack Obama. I mean, I have tried but I can't... I don't trust him and I don't like him.

If I have been overly insensitive or hurtful to others, I would also like to say that this was never my intention. I am probably taking the comments from here too seriously. I am very honest about my thoughts and feelings. As you may have seen in the blog, my standpoint changes overtime In this election I am unsettled and disillusioned... I don't mean to come across as so angry.

That's the best I can offer... back to your regularly schedule blogsphere.

Forgot to say that he was a gay Moslem watermelon eating hooker ... gotta make sure we hit all the stupid sterotypes and prejudices.

As I suspected...because I asserted myself earlier today with confidence that is unbecoming a woman...you are angry.

That's too bad. I had a different impression of you.

Haven't seen Juno but really liked the Ellen Page interview on the BW Special after the Oscars and so now I think I'm a fan and must run immediately to see it.

Euro -- do not apologize. You were the one attacked. Next time, just send out a hillbilly song...

"Call someone who'll listen, or might give a damn
Maybe one of your sordid affairs
Here's a quarter, call someone who cares "

EURO,

No one cares about the OBAMA thing.

You told DND to leave the BLOG....DOOTS is his good friend, He told you what you could do with that.

You did a drive by on someone you didn't know. Be careful to find out who people are and why they express themselves and you will find more respect.

I watched the people who piled on and you have taken each down too.

When Warren was taking KARMA, I believe he was talking of, "what goes around comes around".

Much easier to forget the the person behind the writing is someone.

A great lesson in Blog communities.

thanks Patsi... I've been feeling sensitive lately... stress related. Normally I hold up under these circumstances. Today I didn't... Please move onto another subject... :-)

yay!!!! EuroTom came back!!!

Wendy:

Worked up and angry are two different things. I am in a pretty good mood after the gym.

Plus, if you think you being a woman has somehow made me angry than you are just being paranoid. If anything, I was frustrated at the all-too-often-used comeback that any view on Foreign Policy that does not comport with conventional wisdom is naive. I also do agree with your pointing to the generals - who stood behind Hillary - as some type of trump card. I suspect they owe the Clintons a little karma if you know what I mean...

ET - you have a right to feel as you do. I feel the same.

As to taking some comments too seriously, I usually skip the snarky comments from certain posters. When I see these kinds of comments, I just picture the scene from the Peanuts cartoon where the teacher/parent is talking (waah wah wah, wah wah wah waah), laugh and move on to something more interesting, smart or funny.

And if other's feel the same or do the same regarding my comments - that's ok too.

In response to Wendy’s 12:37 pm response to Warren that said “I was not implying that Obama’s hope was an illusion – clearly that is the only thing that is real about him.”

“The chief executive's power does not derive solely from the authority vested in him by the Constitution. To the contrary, it derives also, and in some ways, more so, from his ability to rally the people, to inspire them in some great challenge or crusade. We do not live -- yet -- in a dictatorship. Americans do not move because they are told to move. They move because they are inspired to. It is no accident that

history's

most

successful

presidents

are the ones who were able to frame, with concision and grace, America's challenges and hopes, the ones who had greatest command over what Theodore Roosevelt famously called "the bully pulpit."

“What some of us don't understand is that Obama is not running a campaign. He is rallying a movement.”

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2008/02/26/pitt25.ART_ART_02-26-08_A11_QS9F7SA.html?sid=101

Wendy:

Definitely watch Juno. It is my favorite so far out of the 3 Oscar nominees I have seen. Great dialogue and use of subtley.

"I just picture the scene from the Peanuts cartoon where the teacher/parent is talking (waah wah wah, wah wah wah waah)"

This is what I think of when I hear Hillary droning on about arcane policy details.

I know, I know - I am just an uniformed Obamamaniac - "wah wah wah wah"

I saw something tonight that gave me a much needed laugh. On "Around The Horn" on ESPN columnist Woody Paige announced that he was gonna celebrate his win on tonight's show by doing a *headstand*. Woody stands up and takes off his jacket and disappears from the view of the camera. The next thing we see is Woody Paige's feet in the air. Then the camera pans down and we see Woody lying on his back on the floor with his feet in the air. End of illusion.

of course I understand Sheila. But generally speaking, I don't think I have bad karma.... I will read back on telling DND to leave the blog, that isn't something I could "tell" anyone to do... I'll get back on that shortly!

New spin, if Hillary loses Texas but wins Ohio she stays in and then Pa will make or break her.

.....Lard...."I Just Want World Peace".........

Warren - I'll give you the difference between worked up and angry - I misinterpreted that. I'm glad you're not angry just worked up.

We disagree on the foreign policy issue. I believe she's proven herself to have a better grasp on foreign policy issues and am comforted by that as well as the support she's receiving. Obama's stances on issues of foreign policy are extremely unclear. I brought up a couple issues in my earlier posts. I know I know - many of you like that he doesn't take firm stands on any issues and that's fine. It's just that I am not comforted by the question marks and this is just one more reason I find it difficult to support him.

I know I will not convince you, Warren, or other's on the list that are obviously firm in their beliefs - for Hillary and for Obama. That said, I do think our discussions might be interesting for those who never post but just read - for someone who might be trying to make up their minds about a candidate and want to see what others think. That's why I like for us to continue to converse. We always disagree but I think we have pretty good conversations.

Thank God Paula Deen is making apricot preserves and I can stop listening to MSNBC. Everything else on tv is a re-run. And Matthews is just the runs.

"“What some of us don't understand is that Obama is not running a campaign. He is rallying a movement.”?

Just because something is moving doesn't mean it is going in the right direction.

yay!!! LardassLiberal is back!!!

OMG...I can't believe I am not the only one who thought the W&w should get a room!!!...LOLOLOL!!!

Who is this shock jock Bill Cunningham. What a intro to McCain.

Warren - 5:44 pm post about Hillary speeches

ROFL

That made me chuckle because that's how I feel listening to Obama.

*that W&w

Sheila...I was doing my best to channel you. :)

And LushIs...I tried to fix them up a couple weeks ago, but no dice. The sparks do fly when they message each other, don't they?

uh huh, LaL!!!

LL

ROFLMAO

I think Warren and I are in the process of making up!

Welcome Back , LAL. I don't think it's fair that you ground everyone here. Not that some probably don't deserve it , but it's not fair for all of us to be punished for the transgressions of others , is it? Because if you do punish all of us on this blog , isn't that really not just an indictment of this blog but an indictment on America? Well , I'm not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth The United States of America!

I know, Wendy. You're just a couple of crazy kids in love. :)

I keep missing it where is the debate tonight, is it a hillary crowd or Obama crowd

Okay, Corey. That does it. The whole damn COUNTRY is grounded for a week.

"The sparks do fly when they message each other, don't they?"

Maybe they could try massaging each other.

More Evidence Drudge Cooked Clinton ‘Source’

"Big Head DC has received credible information indicating that the now infamous Sen. Barack Obama picture, which shows him wearing traditional Somali garb in 2006, was posted on at least one conservative Web site several hours before Matt Drudge highlighted the photo. It seems highly likely that the photo was forwarded to Drudge from one of the conservative Web site writers, or he saw it on his own, and then he posted a story regarding the picture. To seal the story, he may have decided to falsely claim that the Sen. Hillary Clinton campaign had ties to the picture’s distribution."

http://bigheaddc.com/category/hillary-clinton/

Corey

It's in Ohio. It should trend Hillary a bit unless they screened the crowd in someway

A chart I have been keeping in Excel:

Ohio:
2/15 = 17.3% for HRC
2/19 = 14.7% for HRC
2/22 = 10.0% for HRC
2/23 = 8.6% for HRC
2/26 = 7.4% for HRC

Texas:
2/15 = 10.3% for HRC
2/19 = 7.6% for HRC
2/22 – 2.8% for HRC
2/23 – 0.7% for HRC
2/26 = -1.50% for HRC (that minus means in favor of Obama)

Thought I would explain the last figure because Patsi said on the last thread @ 8:49 pm 2/25/08.

“His campaign is based on an understanding of the desperation of an

ignorant

populace

looking for some sort of savior.”

No one knows how this is going to turn out but I’m hoping and praying it will go the way the trends are currently going, but wanted to be sure I was included into that “ignorant populace looking for some sort of savior”.

And, BTW, I know I'm an outsider on this board, but I've been on these kinds of blogs/boards/forums for years and if I can't keep up with D's when I'm usually against Neocons, well!!!!!

Hi Jamie....You been doin' okay? Hangin' in there?

If that is true should Hillary address that tonight, or say to him what is the big fuss over the picture in the first place.

If Clinton was really smart , she would circulate a picture of Obama wearing a University of Michigan football jersey before tonight's debate in Cleveland. Or even one of Obama wearing a Steelers jersey! LOL!

I just pray that HRC does not bring up the SNL skits!!

Easy on that Steeler shirt.

Have them both come out in a Steeler shirft. Make the folks in Cleveland go nuts.

EuroTom...get a grip: When you find yourself mounting such an earnest, personal defense against an entity who is addressed as "Horsedooty", maybe you're in a bit too deep.

For that matter, same is true for taking advice from an entity who is addressed as "LardassLiberal".

Just sayin'

And final thought... I didn't care about most that was said to me, but I didn't know that being a lifelong democrat meant that a litmus test was necessary ... if so, I haven't been one. (and on this issue I got angry and reacted back). The personal attacks were meant to be hurtful and unlike Hillary, I didn't have my super-duper asbestos suit ready. :-) I also have to believe that those who went after me were not Hillary supporters. I was pretty insulted and still am, but I hope people realise I am willing to offer my own apologies if I've hurt others.

Enuf said...

Still haven't got to watch Hill's speech - but I will. I am sure she will be relying on a lot of it tonight anyways.

The charge that other countries must earn the right to
meet with the Presdient is outdated. This policy is not up to speed with technology. A trip to another country is
not the production that it once was.

World leaders should communicate directly more often - instead of relying on threats over the airwaves. People talk tougher when their adversaries aren't in the room.

Leaders should be communicating often on
issues of security, human rights and economics, etc.

Also, one of the major issues other countries have with us - including our allies - is that we can be arrogant. Not accpeting meetings unless "preconditions" (i.e., US demands) are met reinforces this view. Our enemies can use this stance to reinforce this view and make us look like the big bully.

Way back when, I think Hillary used the politics of fear to talk about how Iran could use such a meeting a propoganda. Nonsense. If the impression is that we are arrogant - we win a PR battle just by attending the meeting. Even if we use that meeting to tell Iran exactly what we demand and inform them they are in no position to bargain. If Iran is not cooperative - we can use the PR from such a meeting to strengthen a coalition to put pressure on Iran.

but then......you could grow up to be a fish......

EuroTom, just relax and try this website:

www.perspective.com

You need some of what they're selling.

EuroTom...get a grip: When you find yourself mounting such an earnest, personal defense against an entity who is addressed as "Horsedooty", maybe you're in a bit too deep.

For that matter, same is true for taking advice from an entity who is addressed as "LardassLiberal".

Just sayin'

Posted by: LardassLiberal | February 26, 2008 6:14 PM

hehehehheheh... !!!!! you know, you DO have a point there... I feel like a dog who's got his teeth on a bone and will NOT let up... ok... case closed... many kisses and hugs... LOL LOL LOL, really this is the humour I needed! ehhehehe

Hi LaL

I'm fine, just sad. It's not that I dislike Senator Obama, I just sincerely believe that he is the wrong person for the job at this time.

Senator Clinton has been badly served in two respects. First a horribly sexist media that refused to see her as an individual Senator with a record to cover rather than an extension of her husband that they unmercifully attacke and second by a campaign so poorly run that you almost had to ask if they weren't in some way actually trying to sabotage her.

As a result, a woman that I believe could have been a great president will probably not (short of an absolute miracle) have a chance to be that President.

Sturgeone

"you could grow up to be a fish......"

or a ghoti

good old gbs........

Tonight's quote:

"It is not how famous UR. It is what UR famous for."

I saw that quote on a website tonight.

back up quote:
Remember, time flies like an arrow, Fruit flies like a banana.

--Townes

Dog's eye

Is it really necessary to start again? I don't have to admit anything. I have my opinion. you have yours. ENOUGH

Dog...the absolute rule of any process is that there is always an outcome. Period. So I'm not sure, with this particular process winding down toward the outcome you prefer, why you even care about spinning something as "victimhood." Just let it go. We Hillary supporters are frustrated and pissed off at how things have played out. Why can't you allow us that? You win. We lose. Now take your foot off our necks and let us breathe.

So much energy on this blog is spent on attacking each other's meanings or perceived nuances of meaning...or arguing about what is going to happen in the next five minutes, when all one has to do is wait for those five minutes to pass in order to find out.

Once again: www.perspective.com

(short of an absolute miracle)
--Jamie

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CxIN79n4jVo

One of my favorite songs!!

Mr. Ghoti

So glad you recognized it.

You know , somebody at work last night told me that they had never seen me get mad before. Go figure. By the way , I liked you magazine cover photo , Jamie!

jamie -----------------

"by a campaign so poorly run that you almost had to ask if they weren't in some way actually trying to sabotage her."

One conspiracy theory names Mark Penn as the person out to sabotage the campaign.

Is it really necessary to start again? I don't have to admit anything. I have my opinion. you have yours. ENOUGH

Posted by: jamie | February 26, 2008 6:31 PM

hmmmm......maybe should have used that line on FryDaddy this morning.......{{{Taping Foot and considering}}}

Gordo

I can invent my own conspiracy theories thank you.

well said, LaL!!

Don't expect any sparks to fly tonight in the debates.
Sen Clinton has accepted that Sen Obama will be the party nominee.
Her efforts now are to sharpen Sen Obama's debating skills for the general elections and keep the excitement in the Democratic race going.

Vivian, I love that analysis. And maybe therein is a brand new campaign slogan.

"Hillary: America's Blocking Sled"

Corey,

Just taking a 25 year trip back in time. Wait till you see the trip I take on March 2. :-)

You should do a cover for that future president on your web site today.

Ahhhhh...Vivian,

Thank you for a fresh outlook on the debate! I liked what you said. ;0)

I can't belive any candidate would want to help out another on sharpen their skills when they have remote chance of winning. It's to soon for that one.

Warren wrote:

"World leaders should communicate directly more often - instead of relying on threats over the airwaves. People talk tougher when their adversaries aren't in the room."

Agreed - and Hillary never talked about using threats as Bush does - she was clear that diplomatic efforts need to move forward.

"Leaders should be communicating often on
issues of security, human rights and economics, etc."

Agreed.

'Bro's Before Ho's'

"And people wonder why I question whether this country is ready for a female president.

This type of stuff proves we haven't come any further than the 1800s, not that we needed t-shirts, mugs, baby clothes, buttons and hats to teach us about the misogynistic culture in which we still live.

But let's face it, if Barack Obama was a woman he wouldn't be getting the time of day. A female of his age and experience for commander in chief? Military flag officers would be in full scale mutiny at such a ridiculous notion.

Lucky Obama is a bro. A ho his age would be asked so many competency questions she'd likely run fleeing from the race."

http://www.taylormarsh.com/

Jamie , that picture on my blog is a picture of some Swedish artist's LP cover. I don't know a lot about Swedish music other than ABBA , so I'm not sure if it is a joke or not. I just thought the picture classy. LOL!

ask the Swedish Chef.....he's around here somewhere, by golly........

I learned everything I need to know about cooking from the Swedish Chef! Sorry , Sheila!

"A female of his age and experience for commander in chief?"

That's actually a good point.

I like Pitts. So often, both in print and on television, he's the voice of morality and reason.

The questions that haven't been addressed at all is how do we transition from inspiration to an effective administration of government. Certainly we can't have a 14-month hiatus while we get things organized.

And, I haven't heard the calls for self-sacrifice that characterize the most impressive movements.

We've been told that if young-people volunteer for public service, they'll have college loans forgiven. Doesn't sound like sacrifice to me--not like my nephew going to Chad with the Peace Corps or a niece devoting her life to working in reservation hospitals in Arizona. Or his own uncle leaving college to join the Army in 1942.

We haven't heard how he's going to assemble a cabinet. Or how he plans to the selfless cadre of genuine public servants who will oversee the workings of government. How will he gauge their competence? How will he utilize our country's civil servants? Its military? How we will _really_ get the last 15-million into universal medical care? Is there a place for 'dollar a year men' as they used to be called?

Pitts says these are legitimate questions to which we have the right to demand answers.

All I ask is that our need for answers to these fundamental questions not be lost in the euphoria over the arrival of an inspirational leader.

Flatus...

I think rather than watch the Obama presidency play out in real time on TV, I'll just wait and buy the boxed set on DVD after Season Four.

Think about it. It might save you a lot of trouble and heartache.

All I ask is that our need for answers to these fundamental questions not be lost in the euphoria over the arrival of an inspirational leader.
Posted by: Flatus | February 26, 2008 6:52 PM

Too late mate... It's like Jonestown

I mentioned my far right falling off the edge of the flat earth Republican contacts earlier. That Asia Times psychobabble article on Senator Obama has now gone viral. I have received several emails all wanting me to know what China thinks of him.

Does this news source have any validity at all or is it in the world net daily class? This isn't to attack the Senator ... if you want to read it this is the link.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JB26Aa01.html

it's not over yet......

I like the way that everyone on msnbc is busy telling Hillary what she has to do next......lol

It's quaint......

two hours of fill time for msnbc

I hope HRC takes Pat Buchanan's advice!!

Pat is making sense, the rest want her to quit

For several years , the company I work for had a community service program. Each summer , we usually have a summer shutdown in July. Most departments are shutdown for a week or two because the car plants are shutdown during that time. The company gave people a choice of having time off from work or working in a community service program. You got paid your regular work pay while you volunteered at various places within our community. It was quite popular , but we stopped doing that a few years ago. One of the funniest stories I have about that was when a former plant manager of ours talked about the head of our HR department and his community service work. He said , "Last year , Ken did a lot of community service work helping out un-wed mothers." The entire room broke out in laughter.

She will do just fine in life if she goes right after him. This legacy stuff is crap. GW is trying to save his legacy and see where that is getting him

I think Pat just figures out what Hillary's going to do and then acts like he's advising her to do it......da goof.

Chris M can't even figure out what time the debate is.

Corey

There is actually a Doris Day movie where she storms into an office upset becaus Cary Grant's limo has splashed her dress. Because of the dialogue she is mistaken for being pregnant by two ladies from the local unwed mothers home who have come to get a donation from Grant who has given them a lot of money in the past.

Quote: As much as he gives, I suppose he's entitled to use the services.

I hope HRC can channel some of her "inner Ronnie fire" tonight!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bHve9iQymqE

ET,
First you say:

"i think if Jesus Christ was running for the Democratic nomination, the idiots would still flock to Obama"

Then you say:

"but I hope people realise I am willing to offer my own apologies if I've hurt others."

Then you say:

"Too late mate... It's like Jonestown"

Don't you get it? If you insult Obama supporters that's hurtful and condescending.

In the old days at work , the plant manager and HR lead were good friends and they often told stories about each other's personal lives in front of the entire plant. These stories were often hilarious. The HR lead once told us the story of how our plant manager broke his arm. He tried to show off for his kids. He decided to jump out of his kid's treehouse and onto their trampoline. He attempted this and he broke his arm in the process. He said to his kids "Don't tell your Mom how I broke my arm!" I miss those days.

One more point about Lost - cause I think it gets at an important lesson in life (and on this blog): People you come into contact with are ALWAYS more complex that they appear at first.

I think too often we spend too much time trying to fit someone into a stereotype or a demographic (or even "you remind me of....") - and not enough time getting to know the actual person.

If you treat someone like a stereotype - they will start acting like one (look at reality TV for godsakes). It is a self-fulfilling prophecy that we push on one another.

Anyways, I learned that in my years as a bartender -before I got into the law game. (ahhh "the salad days...").

thanks Dnd, you beat me to that. I would add that that is what I have come to expect when you take your foot off their necks. :)

smiley face there.

Honestly, I said this earlier, Ask yourself why someone like Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity or what's her name the shrew in the little black dress at 8:30 am would say that they would vote for HRC? Why is that? Maybe they think the negatives HRC has will drive their base and Independents to vote for the old white guy. I again will say that if HRC is the nominee then I will work to see her as POTUS.

yo soy Horsedooty!

Good Points All Three of You,

each had something slightly different and leading to the same place....World Peace!

LL:

Checked out that website. Looks pretty cool.

In Taoism - the Tao - which is kinda like God - is defined as "the ten thousand things."

But Taoists try to stay away from definitions based on a theory that they limit things.

But that Tao is pretty much Nature, and all the stuff collected on your website.

i think rush sean and anne all say that knowing they will cause democrats shy away from hillary.....

Is Craig going to be on tonight?

Gordo:

Are you a program sent here by Taylor Nash? Can you reboot or something please.

i think rush sean and anne all say that knowing they will cause democrats shy away from hillary.....

I mean you know that if their lips are moving they're lying.......

Sturgeone

Have to admit I keep wondering why they want to drive Democrats away from Hillary while telling Repbulicans to vote for Obama ... Huh?

A few more examples like that and I'm going to start sounding like GORDO

Flatus:

"how do we transition from inspiration to an effective administration of government."

It will start when the Clinton machine stops attacking Obama and starts supporting him (at least most of the machine - it sounds like we may lose some to Nader...since it is his turn and all).

GORDO is a web root virus.

You guys didn't know that?

And I thought I was dumb.

I hate it that Keith has joined the MSNBC bash Hillary team. I expect better of him.

oh..now BHO wants to play nice....I think he is scared to see which HRC shows up tonight!!!

Corey,

You mentioned the mag cover. Have you been back since I put up the article on Gallipoli?

ROTFLMAO @ Keith and Tim....not knowing what to expect tonight....be afraid...be very afraid!!!!!!

BOO!!!!!

ROTFLMAO!!!

LushIs

Maybe Hillary will wear the same Dragon Lady cape she wore to testify before Ken Starr's grand jury. Remember that?

Tee-hee. It was an awesome slapdown to the entire industrial media complex.

senor pescado,
You might be right but I think that it is the other way around. I believe HRC has negatives that are much greater than OHB and I also think it is because the thought of another Clinton running for the white house is so abhorant to the right wingnuts that will rally the base to get out and vote something they might not do for someone like John McCain. Then the old white guy is assured a victory in the General and at least 4 more years of the same failed policies that we have had for the last 8. I could be wrong but I don't believe anyone has proved to me that is not the case.

yo soy Horsedooty!

"hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"
--William Congreve

Maybe Hillary will show up in a simple Charlie Brown ghost costume...ie, a sheet with two eyeholes cut out.

Or maybe she'll wear her Naughty Wicked Witch Outfit, with fishnet hose and spiked heels.

Or maybe she'll wear...

You get it. Sexism lives. No one is wondering about "what time of the month" it is for Obama tonight. These people should all be fired.

So Rachel Maddow is mad at BO because of a speech he gave Friday trying to distance himself from the word liberal (didn't John Kerry do that?)

Here is what she said:

"Senator Obama doesn’t want to associate with being labeled as a “liberal.” Oh boy. Since when is being liberal a bad thing? Recently he said, "Oh, he's liberal, he's liberal….Let me tell you something. There's nothing liberal about wanting to reduce money in politics. That is common sense. There's nothing liberal about wanting to make sure [our soldiers] are treated properly when they come home . . . . There's nothing liberal about wanting to make sure that everybody has healthcare. We are spending more on healthcare in this country than any other advanced country, but we've got more uninsured. There's nothing liberal about saying that doesn't make sense, and we should so something smarter with our healthcare system." Liberals aren’t bad people Senator…"

http://www.airamerica.com/maddow/

She's a big voice for Hillary not going to negative in these debates - in order...you know...to preserve the democratic party...but she gave Hillary permission to kick him in the pants over this one. Wonder if she will.

I know John Kerry is supporting BO but I hope BO isn't actually taking any advice from him - what a disaster he was.

LaL...I don't remember it. Where should I look for a pic of it?

must take Lulu to vet - cannot watch debate live - must see on tape delay

sigh

have fun!

Lal

The best one came from Obama himself ...

"Periodically when Hillary gets a little down she lashes out"

My how innocent that sounds unless you are female.

Ed Schultz today was going on about Hillary being angry about the brochure ... " Do you want someone who gets that angry in control able to press the button"

Like no President has ever had a temper.

Linda:

I think if Chris went down the "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" he would be getting a scolding letter from Mr. Wolfson tomorrow.

Is Wolfson a feminist? What about Penn? Penn does not strike me as a ladies man...

Oh, yeah...Craig is powerful enough to make any of us leave this blog...I forgot that part....

Jamie: Let's just hope that when Pakistan goes to hell, it's at least on a "light day" for our president.

I can't believe this crap. Now I AM pissed! More pissed than ever.

Wendy:

Since "liberal" it the GOP's pejorative term for a Dem - I don't think Obama should just start calling himself the "Liberal Candidate." I think we know who Rachel is voting for - and Obama isn't much into pandering...

Harbor:

The Oceanic 6.

Warren, didn't ask when we'll transition, but how we'll do it.

Warren...

Obama isn't much into pandering?

That's like saying panda bears aren't much into panda-ing.

Lal

What's funny is that Senator Clinton is probably past that while Senator Obama is just the right age for male menopause. I guess we won't worry until we see a red corvette in the White House driveway.

LMAO @ Jamie!!!!

Jamie...

Watch out lady! I'm in the midst of my second or third mid-life crisis...which has resulted in at least two motorcyles and two sets of golf clubs!

Meanwhile...here's a game to play for tonight's debate: Whenever a question requiring a substantive answer is asked, count how many times Obama looks like a 10th grader looking over furtively to crib off Hillary's answers during final exams!!

It's all we have left at this point, folks.

Flatus:

There is no road map. Politics is always impacted by events.

But I think Obama is a move towards our government spending more time working on our problems than infighting. Obama has the potential to win by a large enough margin to push the so-called liberal agenda through.

There will be twists and turns - cuts and compromises - and shit we can't expect - but I'd rather have our leaders working instead of calling each other names and having debates about false choices.

We need and Awwwwwwwwwwwwww

http://d1389030.u44.j-angel.com/images/100_0143_edited.JPG

Jamie, or we could check for delivery of testosterone patches to 1600.

From LardassLiberal:

"Warren...

Obama isn't much into pandering?

That's like saying panda bears aren't much into panda-ing."

Pander = "someone who caters to or exploits the weaknesses of others" (from www.m-w.com)

Quite possibly that is what Obama is doing (as with HRC)!!!!!

AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

NEW THREAD

Nothing quite like a baby that is over five feet tall and 150 pounds a birth. ... when it has to fall almost six feet to enter the world ... ow

Warren. Pushing an agenda through is the second thing that alienated us from Bush (the first was the theft of the election).

Simply can't institutionalize liberalism or conservatism of Taoism or Shintoism or communism through having a large enough margin at the polls.

You have to bring people along by showing you are competent at running a government by providing services, not screwing the taxpayers, and generally making people content.

Liberalism can't be imposed.

I think Russert is just afraid he's going to get his teeth handed to him again like Hilldog did in that hour Meet the Bullshit Press interview. And as far as the last debate when she ended on the tone of ..."I am proud to be here with BO"...my girl should've followed it up with, "now I'm going to rip your lungs out, sweet dreams".

NEW THREAD

Luscious,

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned is a William Congreve line??? I always figured that came from The Bible.

Dnd, I wrote this big response but I don't want to respond so I deleted it. Clinton supporters attack the Obama supporters and vice-versa. Normally it isn't directed at one supporter the way it was towards me today. As one member said, we can remember that in front of each computer is a real person.

'nuf said..

good night all