Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Just making sure people don't forget this one:

"I understand that Senator Clinton, 'periodically' when she's 'feeling down', launches attacks as a way of trying to boost her appeal."

--Sen. Barack Obama the sexist --- er, saint

just one less cow

http://theboard.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/15/would-you-like-sick-cow-with-those-fries/

We sat at our screens and tapped out howls of JOY! on election night, 2006, right on this blog.
WE had captured Congress! WE were going to end the war, now, by god...we'd show Bush, yes we would.

How'd that work out for us, Crawfordslisters / TrailMixers?
We learned the power is in the White House.
We want change.
For me that means deposing the Republicans.
To hell with Congress.

Patsi:

I am not impressed by the name dropping. I am impressed by your willingness to mix it up with the names you dropped.

Pats
I don't think anyone here will really care if Obama is sexist or not. If you protest too loudly, you might become a racist, or worse, a NEOCON.

I posted some links to Obama's advisor in Syria just as one of the worst terrorists who had free reign in Syria was blown up. The the country that tortured the Canadian citizen that Bush sent had a great photo op with Zbig and Assad as they talked of mutually shared goals. The destruction of Israel, the more than 400 attacks that terrorist had conducted? Odfcourse Zbig isn't plotting with Assad but what gain and what signal? And then Zbig was shuttled away as the Iranians came to town to denounce the murder of one of the most vile terrorists....LOL

The question is whether Hispanics, Jews, women, Reagan Democrats and Independents gets so pissed over the litany of issues brushed aside by Obama and media, they consider McCain. The dude said he won't run a second term and the Democrats can check him in Congress. He is likely to consent to Amnesty, tow a tough line around the world, fail to get any terrible judges past Congress, not keep all the tax cuts and actual lower the deficit.

The question is whether enough people will punish the Democrats for the Pelosi/Reid/Obama/Dean spin of their party which includes playing race and sexism while delighting in media bias. I have never voted for a Republican. It does go against the grain, but the purge of DLCers, the B.S. foreign policy suggestions, and the contemptable pandering to the Kos crowd derserves some rebuke. Should I be loyal or wrong? Should I take retribution against the slander and vague rhetoric and reward the Democrats for a job poorly done? Romney would be out of the question, but McCain might actually be a decent centrist.

I don't see Obama carrying any big sticks while Chavez, Assad, Ahmadinejad, Putin continue to push against their neighbors and arm even more. Putin actually calls our shooting down an errant sat a crime while saying zip on a earlier Chinese ASAT test that left debris threatening the US and RUssia on the space station. Don't expect Obama to call anyone out on a double standard. That is far too Republican Lite. With the Congress behind him, what damage could a poor Obama administration do? At least the Clinton WH brought about some improvement.

So if Obama wins this (using whatever means), should Democrats and Independents vote Obama Liberal? For me at least, I will give McCain a serious chance to convince me. By the time Obama leaves office Iran will be tipping their missiles and Chavez will likely be engaged in threatening his neighbors to stay in office. Let's see if Obama praises Kosovo's Independence (sorry UI). I doubt however he will answer any serious questions. Identitiy politics is rather lame and without substance. Che was no Ali.

And Craig, not one word about Zbig, Rice and the Obama foreign policy team. What does Obama do as head of the Senate Foreign Relations Sub Committee on Eastern Europe and NATO? Maybe you can ask around. Haven't heard Obama pressing for more NATO support in Afghanistan. Haven't heard support of NATO in Romania and Bulgaria. Putin threatens to target Ukraine with missiles. Is foreign policy just Iraq? JFK had tougher questions. All Obama has to do is dance.

Dexter:

We learned 50-50 plus one Bush does not get us too far.

The more you read into it - the further you get from the truth.

Maxtrue:

I hope the first black President can dance.

I wouldn't know where to begin with the rest of what you said. Except to say, that I would hope you give every candidate a "serious chance to convince" you they should be President.

only republicans or republican enablers will consider voting for Walnuts McCain.

I see this everytime I hear someone say they're considering McCain......

http://www.basehead.org/files/shots/1-mccain_bush_hug.jpg

It doesnt get any plainer than that picture, which actually IS worth a few thousand words.......

I said all he has to do is dance. I guess I shouldn't expect you to spend much time exploring foreign policy. It is such an unimportant topic

Yes, sturgie, Democrats should only vote for Democrats and Independents should be Independent. Sounds pretty bright. What did I expect from the Obama side? You do know what centrifuges are, You do know who I mean by Zbig. Maybe everything outside America is a joke. Perhaps that is why you were so startled by 9/11. The guy just blown up in Syria was responsible for many more attacks than Bin Laden. Attacks that happened during Clinton's watch.

I guess your faith is in some ways like Robertson. Can Obama screw things up?

"Yes we can".

Maxtrue:

I majored in IR and Foreign Policy guides my vote. Your dismissive attitude bespeaks ignorance.

Sure miss the Patsi that didn't spend most of her posts subtley or otherwise, making angry bitter statements.

I really do...

I'm not the obama side......I'm the hillary side.

and yes.....anyone (independent or democrat or other) who would even consider voting for McCain is a Bush supporter.

when I say supporter......well...check out McCain's left hand.

Maxture,

I would think that you, of all blogers, would have made up your mind which party suits you and reflects your deep feelings about the right and wrong of the world.

If Obama did become the NOM, you would give McCain some serious thought? I would have figured that you have already made an informed decsion on McCain, like all the rest of us on this blog....

Interesting that you would have to revisit all that McCain stands for. Interesting that you haven't made up your mind yet.

verrrrrrrrrrrrry interesting.......

---Artie Johnson

Arte Johnson......major culpa

http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/templateC05.php?CID=2716

THen if you are such a fioreign policy wonk, answer my questions. I have posted several dozen. How many times has Obama even held a meeting as head of the Senate Foreign Relations Sub Committee on Eastern Europe and NATO? Does Obama support Odum's idea of a Grand Bargin with Iran? Doe you support Obama's suggestion of sending troops into the Kyber Pass? Do you support the notion that NATO has failed to meet its obligation in Afghanistan with several countries not even wanting to go into fire zones? Does Obama support the idea of defending neighbors of Chavez from his threats or if you think FARC is a liberation army? Do you support the notion of Putin that the destruction of a US sat is a ruse to test missile defense. Does Obama even support missile defense. Is Hamas a terrorist organization? Where did Iran construct their P-2 centrifuges? Why did Syria cover the Israeli blast site with several feet of concrete so radation could not be detected from US spy sats? I could go on, but the answers would reveal much of what you or Obama see as cogent foreign policy.

Do you know what Obama said about Iran in 2004? Whay did he not vote yes or no on recent sanctions against Iran in light of his speech to AIPAC? What did ZBIG achieve in Syria as a most wanted terrorist was terminated with Syria and Iran blaming Israel and threatening retaliation? Do you believe this guy was a freedom fighter?

I could go on and on, but at least McCain isn't afraid to answer.

And you do know what Piro said about his interrogation of Saddam.

Funny with your back ground you give Obama a free pass and support the notion that Hillary is the pandering flip-flopper. So go ahead. Let's here it.

Oh, and I have lots more questions too. Obama's vet record. His prinicipled stand on nuclear regulation in his home state. His remarks on Iraq in 2004 which he attributed to trying to help Kerry...LOL

And many more, but the funny thing is, Obama won't address them. I also said quite specifically that one term of McCain contained by a Democratic Congress would be better than a liberated Obama giving us a Bay of Pigs 2. You know, the guy who Obama lifts rheotric and image from, but not substance. Or shall we compare Reagan with Obama. You know the guy who Star Warred the Soviets into no mas, no mas,

sorry about the typos. I am eating a huge sub as I write this. Mo wonder there's mustard now on my keyboard.

Just wanted you to know....LOL

anyone who "considers" McCain is a Bush supporter.
and reagan was a silly actor with alzheimer's......

Oh and by the way I am a definate social Liberal. I also am more of a JFK hawk in the sense of the kind of realism, Truman, FDR and JFK had about the world. If they were alive, they would clearly be supporting Hillary and wonder why the Dean Wing has ejected most of the hawks and DLCers. They would be opposed to the Kos.HUff wing. My remark comes as I weigh the foreign policy of Obama versus the conservative social vlaues of McCain. No, i don't want to be in Iraq for a hundred years as defenders, but then it is a complete deluusion (or outright lie) that leaving Iraq will promote peace. Jon Stewart rejects that idea and says violence will come. His take is that Iraqis just can't keep from killing each other. If you know how Assad or Ahmadinejad think, our retreat is their green light.

Oh and Obama's position on the Sudan? Does he agree with Carter/ZBig that it wasn't genocide? Somalia and kenya? Should we really be building nukes in Algeria and Yemen? Silent subs for Chavez? How about a Russian sub base, JFK would have loved that. Arms factories in Caracas? No wonder Chavez is pumping the US is attacking rant. NK really has no other nuke programs?

Surely talking will resolve these issues. So don't paint me some NEOCON. If my thinking process is NEOCON then remove all modern Democratic Presidents except Carter from the Democratic camp of today. Democrats were the greatest wartime administrations and kossaks would have them become pussies in the face of brutal, absuing thugs. Hell, Wilson tried to pass a sedition act and everyone screams Bush has butchered the Constitution. Exaggeration serves nothing but partisan purposeds that marginalize the center. Nothing wrong with center, but Obama supporters call that NEOCON or Republican Lite. I don't join no religions. My English is quite intentional.

Tell that Reagan comment to Obama......right?

McCain hates Bush or did you forget the black baby attack in 2002? He created a truce while taking the biggest pot shots at Bush in an attempt to win the nomination. He called for Rummie to be fired, so let's be honest and stop the hyperpartisanship. Have some shred of respect for evidence. Yeah the country and the world really thinks Reagan was a crap President. I can list all the stuff that made me furious, but your characterization is just straight partisan. Did you blast Obama for his Reagan comments?

LOL...black baby attack in 2000...now there's mustard on my mouse...

Sleep tight yall.

Maxtrue:

You speak a lot of nonsense, Have you ever been to the Reagan Library - it is in a beautiful place?

The footprints of Jedi go forgotten.

Has anyone noticed that the new Maytag "repair man" in TV commercials looks an awful lot like Jeb Bush?

Maybe Jeb wants to keep his face in public view, so that he can run in 2012, despite Dubya's mangling of the family business.

Oh Patsi,

You don't even understand. This board is dominated by Clintonites who act like spoiled children. Your candidate went from thinking she deserved the nomination because, well, she was Hillary. And when it didn't happen, she and her supporters didn't know what to do. So you attack Barack for being everything Hillary isn't. And so we Obama supporters get a kick watching you guys squirm. See, we believe in our candidate. We find him refreshing, interesting, smart and damn able to lead this country. You guys still can't believe that your "35 years of experience" candidate is steadily losing.

Well Patsi, Hillary's going to lose. Yes, they'll do whatever backhanded thing they can to win, but she's going to lose. And those are the breaks. So the Obamanation is going to continue to tweak all of you Clintonites. Everytime Craig puts up some headline that is sour on Barack, we'll smile and continue to point to the scoreboard. And we'll be in DC for the swearing in of Barack Obama. Hey, I'm rooting for Hillary as Senate Majority Leader. That's where folks with "35 years of Experience" can be most effective.

PS: Does she count her years as a Goldwater Girl in those 35 years? Just asking.

Max,

"""McCain hates Bush or did you forget the black baby attack in 2002? He created a truce while taking the biggest pot shots at Bush in an attempt to win the nomination"""

McCain used to be the type of person who didn't sleep with the enemy, no matter who was in charge. He stood up for his beliefs and his constiuents. I have seen THAT McCain since the "Black Baby" smear....

McCain has been endearing himself to Bush/Rove since then for this run. I can't respect someone like that, not matter how much I liked them in the past.

And Max,

Did you blast Obama for his Reagan comments?"""

I've read and read it. Obama's intended meaning was clear. He thought the way inwhich Reagan ran his Adminstration IE Many many Experts and group consensus was life altering for the country.

In terms of management only.

Obama also clarified by noting that he would run a DEMOCRATIC Administration the same way. That is all.

I realize though, that the Hill Camp DID spin it for campaign fodder.

Good try and brilliant try, just not brilliant enough for Obama Campaign Strategists who caught it and lobbed it back in time.

Before I get to work,

Patsi I AM REALLY sad it has come to this. When I wrote that post last night, I was hoping you would really understand its meaning.

You've known me for a long time and in all that time, I have never changed.

I'm just sorry that you have molded me into something I am just NOT.

I watch how rude you are to others who don't agree with Clinton. There are some who are totally rude and may deserve it and some who are just arguing opposite views.

I won't promise you that I will stop defending the ones that are being misunderstood.

Ok, I'm gone to work. have at it! ;0)

MaxTrue question. Can you clarify your comments about NATO support in Romania and Bulgaria?

Has anyone ever stopped to think this is politics?

Since when has politics NOT been nasty?

By their very nature, politicians will fight tooth and nail to win. Just like Obama did with his attacks against Hillary when his poll numbers were down and Hillary was ahead. Just like Hillary did when she saw that Obama's attacks were starting to work.

It doesn't matter which candidate gets the nomination. You can toss the "new politics" speech right out the window. If Obama is the nominee you can bet your house, your money, your loved ones on the reality that HE WILL ATTACK! McCain will attack; he will attack. This will be nasty like all the Presidential campaigns become.

Really, we can "hope" all we want for this political paradigm shift, but it isn't going to happen any time soon. In fact, it won't happen until there are MAJOR structural changes in the making of politics in the United States:

*Publicly funded elections with strict $$$ limits
*End of corporate political parties holding a structural monopoly
*Requirement that the candidates discuss issues with REAL debates on VISION and ideas -- sans personal attacks
*An end to lobbyists
*An end to the "professional" political handlers who pocket millions for themselves win or lose.
*Require voting as a duty of citizenship -- If you love America, you must understand that this is but a small obligation. Oh and it ends all the fighting of each side trying to stop the other side's voters from casting ballots.
*End the Electoral College
*Civility in all political discourse in and out of the political branches.

I would add that Proportional Representation would be far more fair than the winner-take-all system in Congressional Districts, but I can't really see how that would work. You would end up with a far larger number of Reps and Senators in Congress and I doubt that would help much.

Anyway, you want "new politics"? Demand a structural change in politics and governance.

You know the media just will not give Hillary a break. This Morning on a network this comment was made.
Hillary is leaving Wisc. on Monday. She must be giving up on that state, that is not good, she could come in close to him.
NOW, yesterday when Obama was spending Valentine's Day in Chicago, he was NOT ACCUSED of giving up. It was ok for him but not for her. This is making me sick.
Hillary will win it all and then the media and deal with that and SHE, as president, can deal with the media.
I guess I am plain tired of this media marriage to Obama.

""Man, I didn't realize 'you people' were literate."
I said, "Yeah, and some of us can actually read."
The only person at the table who laughed was Woody Allen."

Got to watch that reading stuff and as for dropping names, here is the instructional manual on how to do it correctly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z7MKV6e3yk

"And we'll be in DC for the swearing in of Barack Obama. Hey, I'm rooting for Hillary as Senate Majority Leader. That's where folks with "35 years of Experience" can be most effective. "

I do agree with alpha that Hillary has been a much more effective senator than her opponent.

Alpha says Hillary is going to lose in the race for Democratic nominee He may be right, but unless Michigan and Florida are treated right, those states will NOT go Democratic which will create a BIG burden for whomever is the Democratic nominee. If I were to choose, I'd say take Florida as it is, and revote Michigan with both Obama and Clinton's name on the ballot.

inTERNa-seen

??

Fish

That pronunciation of internecine through me for a minute as well.

He did it again

inter
nuh
seen

maybe he is thinking of baby doctors hiding in a broom closet sleeping? Intern unseen.

threw me

It's contagious

I thought it was supposed to be "Enter Knees in"
lol

or enter knee sin.

It did add a little twist to the intended meaning.

Kate O' Burn and Bob Novak???

jesus.....CLICK

Hang in there. It's almost time for reliable sources. Any chance they might actually mention the one sided coverage of the election, or will they continue the slobbering adoration of Obama?

Bush's approval rating is 24% and over 70%of Americans think the country is on the wrong track.

Why is McCain still competitive with any Democrat?

dog, because the dems in Florida and Michigan will feel disenfranchised and angry that their states were "punished" by a political party. I understand Florida has had 1/2 punishment... but the view will be from the common person "the dems don't like us, so fck them". People are very chauvinistic when it comes to their home state and their country.

It's my theory and I am sticking with it.

KGC
Because all those Independents out their "vote for the man" without ever getting it through their pointy little heads, that with the man comes all the party hacks>

Jack

I am off to a Belgian "Waffle-bak" at my ex's... It is in celebration of his mother... cheers...

I knew it.......Euro Tom is a WAFFLER

George Carlin on "Voting"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u6lCBnRoHQ&eurl=http://www.crooksandliars.com/

Warning: Contains Carlinesque language.....ie, seven dirty words and then some........

Jack

It will be interesting to see how the independent vote
shakes out in the fall. I guess these are all the folks who still voted for Bush in 2004 and can still be convinced the war in eyerack was a good idea they just needed a better manager.

Aren't we supposed to be hearing from General Petraeus next month or has that been cancelled along with the troop withdrawals.

No, He Can't Because Yes, They Will

"Obama’s mantra, “Yes, We Can” is inspiring and heartwarming, but in the end is an empty phrase that will founder once the Republican political attack machine spins up. I realize that most Obamatons are so wedded to his vision of hope that any effort to point out the cracks in the foundation of the new Democratic Savior are met with fury and disdain.

But, unlike the attacks on Dukakis, Cleland, and Kerry, the ammunition that Obama has provided to his political foes is significant and deadly. But try telling that to Obama disciples. You get name calling and character assassination (just read the reaction to this piece). At the same time, Obama is treated with a reverence and fawning that I have never seen in my life for a political figure."

http://www.taylormarsh.com/

Timing of elections in Florida is really important because many registered voters are snow birds. They generally head north around Easter and return just before election day in November.

These people are very active politically with the hot-button issues being healthcare, taxes, social security, and, in some regions the environment. In most case they are not altruistic.

Any effort by anyone to redo an election to a time frame when they are out of state and ill-informed and unable to readily obtain absentee ballots will turn out quite badly for the fools who would do such scheduling.

I'd like to see some kind of validation of the actual number of floridians who head north around easter and return around November.......

Patsi

Let's not forget this famous sexist code phrase:

"hollering at Republicans"

Max

You have a very convincing argument.

"I said all he has to do is dance. I guess I shouldn't expect you to spend much time exploring foreign policy. It is such an unimportant topic"

Max - I'll admit it - I'm much more concerned with domestic issues which I believe Hillary is far more suited to address than BO.

I'm glad you bring all of this up though - has me digging a little and educating myself more fully on these issues. Thanks for bringing up other issues besides Iraq regarding foreign policy.

It's also interesting how some of the more vocal Obama supporters are at a loss for words in the face of the real foreign policy challenges you bring up. I am interested in seeing a substantial discussion regarding some of these issues between Obama supporters and Hillary supporters that know more about foreign policy (like yourself) than I do.

As always - thanks for you insight.

Sturgeone, you might be able to find it in the census data. I don't feel like sifting through it.

Here is my impression developed over the 15-years we spent in Florida:

--In the affluent coastal areas as many as 75-pct of the still-mobile retirees head north. Most of the old-old folks stay the year around. They, too, are very active politically.

--In the less affluent areas, many less people head north-perhaps as few as 20-pct of the still mobile retirees.

--The mobile folks don't necessarily go to their previous northern homes--they may head for the mountains or do the traveling they deferred while they were wage earners.

We moved out of Florida ten years ago when it simply became too crowded. But, I still keep track of things down there.

I thought this discussion was supposed to be about Congress

Patsi wrote:

"when anyone comes back, you go into self-righteous nun mode, slap people on the hand then cry for civility. That's the pattern."

I've noticed this too.

Snowbirds and “sunbirds” cause big shifts in Florida’s older population
Filed under Research, Florida, Aging on Monday, December 11, 2006.GAINESVILLE, Fla. — Florida’s elderly population fluctuates by nearly 20 percent over the course of a year with the winter arrival of “snowbirds” embracing warmer weather and the summer departure of “sunbirds” escaping to cooler climes, a new University of Florida study finds.
http://news.ufl.edu/2006/12/11/snowbirds-3/

At the peak of the 2005 winter season, an estimated 818,000 snowbirds traveled from their home states or abroad to spend at least a month in Florida, while in July about 313,000 elderly Floridians left their residences to spend at least 30 consecutive days somewhere else, said Stan Smith, director of UF’s Bureau of Economic and Business Research.

Thank you, Katherine..........appreciate it large sizes.

"It's my theory and I am sticking with it."

ET - your theory is very good. I'm with you 100% on this - Florida will go red if the democratic party does not make nice. And with Obama's big mouth...even if he is somehow waaaayyyyy out ahead by convention time and they seat those delegates FL/MI will probably still go tell him to F off.

KGC

I'm fighting a cold and it is %#&**## snowing again so Im not very optimistic.

I expect the election to follow the basic pattern of previous elections.
People are basically, conservative( with a small c) and creatures of habit.

Look for my state ,Missouri, to be a swing state. the rural parts of the state will go Republican, the urban areas will go Democratic. That leaves the suburbs to decide.
They seem to like McCain in the suburbs. I'm not sure what issues will gain traction.
Iraq? Their children are all in college they don't know anybody in the war.
The economy? They are all doing OK, this down turn has hit the working class construction worker and factory worker.
Health care? It is company paid for "best in the world".

So, the "better managed war" may play well If combined with the full frontal negative assault that a desperate Republican will launch.
The Rep. have nothing to lose by going negative and it has often worked for them.

Jack

I can remember when I was a little kid learning to read I would see "%@"#!" or somesuch in the funny papers and it threw me for the longest time before I found out what it was and represented......

That's it I'm voting for George Carlin!

dogs eye -- That exchange was between Sheila and myself. She threw out a punch and I responded.

Hey Dog - yea sorry - it occurred to me late most of what I said was only relevant to a conversation that happened hours before I joined in and those folks were probably asleep now or not around.

LOL

All of you might find this interesting if only to see what Hillary will be up against. There is a lady whose site I visit reguarly because she is a magnificent writer. She is an Obama supporter as well and will be in full support mode for the stae of Ohio as well as emails, petitions, and calls in Wisconsin. Add to that her circle of friends and it looks formidable to anyone such as myself supporting Hillary.

http://watergatesummer.blogspot.com/

Good Morning!!

I certainly hope that Craig enjoyed a wonderful evening out with Ms. Thomas!!

Wow, what I wouldn't give to have been a fly on the wall, during their dinner conversation!!

Actually, sitting at the table, with them, would be very cool, too!!! 8D

I am in Ohio. So far I have only received one thing for Obama, an invite to the opening of his downtown office. (Cleveland). I am not saying his isn't here, just saying, in contrast I have seen in person both Bill Clinton, and Hillary Clinton.

For President's Weekend, another great Lincoln quote:

"Allow the president to invade a neighboring nation, whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose TO SAY he deems it necessary for such a purpose - and you allow him to make war at pleasure."

Ah, I'm watching the morning news and the new Clinton lie is conflating the Super Delegate issue with the Florida and Michigan delegate issue.

They just never learn. The populous is informed and energized, and yet they still want to play the "we come out on Sunday morning and repeat this lie long enough, people will believe it" game. Talk about the Clintons sounding like the Bushes (during the run up to the Iraq war).

No shame.

Jack
Sorry to hear about your cold...but it sounds like a good excuse for a hot toddy.

Unlikely_burrito
How were the events?

Obama: Let's not seat the Florida delegation because that would be changing the rules

Obama: Let's change the rules on the Superdelegates because every vote should count.

I think the campaign that full of baloney is the Obama campaign. The rules only count if they work for Obama.

I guess if Senator Clinton sweeps the last few primaries -Obama will change his mind again.

oh yeah and let's not forget In September Obama was all for seating the Florida delegation.

Obama is like John Kerry a big flipflopper

For seating the Florida delegation before being against it.
For the super delegates before being against it.

Against the war but voting for it.

the superdelegates were created to vote their conscience......so I've heard......

Charles Barkeley just flayed out the republicans...all of them especially what he calls "fake christians" I think there is a cut of his conversation with Wolf Blitzer at
www.crooksandliars.com
He supports Obama but will without a doubt vote Democrat this year.
He's also running for governor of alabama in 2014....was a real pleasure to hear him talk.

Tell me where there's a hard, fast rule for Super Delegates?

Ah KGC,

There you go with your illogical logic. Let me make it clear:

Super Delegates: No rules to how they can vote. Both candidates offering suggestions.

Florida and Michigan: All delegates agree to. a. Not campaign b. not count delegates. Obama takes name off of Michigan ballot.

Clinton only candidate to break word and decide after the results that she'd changed her mind. Her word means nothing. Now running scared and behind, she needs to create a LIE like saying voters would be disenfranchised if they don't count. Typical and sad.

Hope that's clear for you.

And now for something FUNNY!

http://www.npr.org/blogs/incharacter/2008/02/cookie_monster_comes_to_npr.html

Click on the video.

Sturgeone , I posted that video of Charles Barkley here last night. I think there was too much fighting going on for anybody to watch it.

"The populous is informed and energized"

*chuckle*

You must be talking to a different populous than I am.

Jack

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4e0qt_fake-christians_news

Here it is again.

Alpha 1906

Obama advertises in Florida against rules.

it all just reminds me of Eugene McCarthy and McGovern.....like history repeating.....Howard Dean, too.....young people and independents, and the left in general out in droves shouting their support to the skies, and all this talk of changing the system and Hope and end the war.....

and then who wins?

Richard Nixon.

Richard Nixon.

and this year it's McCain.......

WhiskyJack,

The African American electorate (thanks to Bill Clinton!!) is voting solidly behind Barack by 8-1 and even 9-1. And have you noticed the numbers of voters in the Dem primaries?

1968 was ruined by Chicago politics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz7DhC5_AvA

Corey.....many thanks....I enjoyed that so much I watched it again........

Sturgeone,

It could remind you of Millard Fillmore and William Henry Harrison, and we wouldn't care, nor be held by some ancient history. We look forward, not backward. We played it "safe" with John Kerry and got shellacked at the polls. No more "But it's my turn" candidates like Hillary.

Jamie,

Then I suggest that the Clintonites unite the party by insisting that Hillary drop out of the campaign for the good of the party.

That's right there are no rules for super delegates and now Obama is trying to make some -
It is Obama that is saying the sd must vote a certain way

Sorry Alpha

People rude enough to push to the head of the line when they haven't earned the right to be there aren't too great either.

And Clinton says they must vote another way. Fine.

Now, did or didn't Clinton agree with the DNC that the Florida and Michigan votes didn't count?

Both events were really good, BC was small by venue. HRC had about 3000 people, with over flow in a cafeteria. It was an energized crowd, who stood for hours in sub-freezing temperatures to see her.

Hillary was great, she interacted with the crowd during her speech, and she was really impressed with the enthusiasm.
She said something to the effect that she'd like to take this crowd with her everywhere.

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/9674/hil19sbx8.jpg

I was for the super delegates voting their conscience until I found out they weren't voting for Obama.

Now I think they should vote the will of the people except when that doesn't support Obama either.

Only Obama knows the will of the people.

Now, did or didn't Obama agree with the DNC that there would be no advertising in Florida?

sturg said: "the superdelegates were created to vote their conscience......so I've heard......"

you know what, honey? they, and the politicians I help to elect should be voting MY conscience (MY being the electorate) and never mind their own. Remember Terri Schiavo? It wasn't me who sent them back from vacation in droves for a red herring, and they had no business being there. They need to vote the collective conscience of their constituency.

Alpha......you do it your way, I'll do it mine.....no problem.....why would I expect you to care? I dont....I merely tell you that I've seen all this before and it turns out the same way every time.....unless Ross Perot decides to politically whack Bush1 or Nixon screws up so badly that Carter wins........once.

Jamie,

What's the litmus test for leadership? is it internal king making, or is it the vote of the people? I think that's the crux of what gets in the craw of Clintonites on this board. How dare someone take her turn! Really? She finally has a challenger that doesn't crumble (her first Senate race) and is useless (her second Senate campaign). Now she's finding out that maybe she's not the vote of the people.

Coleen .......that would seem to be the horns of the superdelegate dilemma at this point, I guess.....I hope they work it out so that a democrats win in November.....but I certainly wouldnt presume to have the answer.....

I imagine the superdelegates have so many consciences they have to be responsible to that they are quite confused......

think it would be okay to substitute "favors they have to pay back" for : "consciences they have to be responsible to" ??

Im sure that "favors they have to pay back" is solidly embedded in the bedrock of that dilemma.......

McGovern => McObama

I still want to know where to send my application for superdelagatehood . After seeing the amounts of money the two Dems have sent them, I want some too.

yo soy Horsedooty!

"he populous is informed and energized"

energized...yes...informed...I have my doubts.

does bedrock have horns?

Will 1.2 million D voters be disenfranchised? That is the question facing the Democrats and it will be more than just interesting on how they reach a satisfying solution to this problem. If the DNC keeps to their original agreement then those Ds who voted in Michigan and Florida their votes will be meaningless, and this for sure, as of today, would make Barry Obmam the D's nominee. Of course should if HRC's prevail and she is award the votes and the delegates then it will be said the selection was manipulated. According to Senator Schumer, the selection could come down to something called the credentials committee. The credentials committee? Haven't heard this obscured elite group of individuals ever talked about before today. Anyone know anything about who they are, or what they do?

Hey Wendy have any luck playing around on Google?

"Clinton only candidate to break word"

not so fast - Obama was running national cable ads that oops just happened to air in Florida before the primary because they were on a NATIONAL cable channel.

Everyone is playing the same game the same way . . . even your precious Obama.

From the Graham Cracker Lady: "Jack

It will be interesting to see how the independent vote
shakes out in the fall. I guess these are all the folks who still voted for Bush in 2004 and can still be convinced the war in eyerack was a good idea they just needed a better manager."

The independents will vote for McCain or not vote. As they said on television this morning and as I've always said, the best way to unite the Republian party is to have Hilliary Rodham Clinton as the person he runs against.

Nuff said!

Why are BO people getting so upset......isn't their candidate ahead....?

It's not about the people who did show up. It's about the people who DIDN'T show up because they thought the vote didn't count.

If you hold an SAT test and declare that the results won't count, so it's basically a practice, so many students don't turn up (or pay the fee to be eligible like Obama in Michigan) do you then backtrack and say, yeah, they should count because a bunch of people showed up? Uh no.

Good piece by Josh Green in The Atlantic about the discontent inside the Hilliary Rodham Clinton campaign and how they actually see her. Doesn’t seem to be much different than what I have always felt about her. Also, I would say Obama has shown to be a good leader regarding fiscal responsibility and that Hilliary Rodham Clinton has not. A little bigotry coming out as well!

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200802u/patti-solis-doyle

Our first black president has a little racist side to him:
“Bill Clinton’s former advisers, known as the “White Boys,” “

From a Clinton campaign person: “She is piggybacking the only black president the United States has ever known,” the Clinton friend piously lectured to me. “Given African Americans’ prominence in the Democratic Party, people who talk up other candidates don’t understand the impact that her husband will have. He won’t passively sit back in this election. He is going to be an activist and he will get on the phone to black ministers and they will be there for her.” (He had an impact, all right.)” [BTW, that comment from Josh Green…not me]

HRC explaining why they did not get started campaigning sooner: “a Clinton insider admitted to me last spring. “There were two reasons nothing happened. First, by admitting he’s a factor, you’re giving him the credibility that you don’t want him to have. Second, everybody thought he would flame out. They didn’t think he could pull a money team and enough talent together to mount a serious challenge.”

This piece goes on to talk about how the Clinton campaign had gone through more than 30 million dollars to get her re-elected to the Senate and incensing her donor base and only have $10 million left to start running for president, something that has caused her problems lately.

just because people always say something doesnt mean that it's factual.......I know people who always say all kinds of fatuous crap.......besides......people are nuts.

"She finally has a challenger that doesn't crumble (her first Senate race)"

This is a little silly from a supporter of the guy who faced the overwhelming challenge of Alan Keyes.

It's not about her being "owed" the nomination. It's about having "earned" the nomination. This started off with me supporting others that I believed had done more to "earn" the job.

Obama is a media creation whose positions have been virtually the same as Clinton's from the day he entered the senate, at least when he bothered to be there doing the job.

"The independents will vote for McCain or not vote"
Karolenna (or as Jack suggests is it Karl?)

Wow that is the exact opposite of what Obama claims.
He claims all the independents will vote for him.

I thought the turn-out for the Florida Dem primary was the largest in history?

Jamie - you know you did the David Wilhelm post

I'm LMAO right now

Love it.

BTW - Fry - plan to do some research later today - I'm just checking in before i go up and read about 150 pgs of Joyce Johnson's Minor Characters about the poor Beat women that never get any credit. Sounds like this campaign really. KIDDING!!!

Wendy,

Nope, all candidates buy national commercials. Cheaper that way. That's a BIG difference from holding "fundraisers" in the state that are nothing but campaign events. But regardless, if Clinton had any sort of integrity, she would have kept her word. Instead, she was losing and declared that "We're looking forward to winning in Florida" after getting blasted in SC. That's intent.

Wendy,

"poor beat women"?

Sorry not familiar with who you are referring to.

it's either domestic abuse or the beatniks

Hey Alpha care to post a link ,a quote anything that shows Clinton changed her mind about Florida as opposed to what Obama did.

There was a bigger turnout in Florida than SC and according to the Obama campaign -since they didn't campaign in Florida what happened there has nothing to do with them.

Jamie,

I'm sure sitting in on state dinners and failing to get a health care program passed in a Democratic Congress may seem like earning it, but I think the voters beg to differ.

come to think of it.......I think the Beats never recovered from having their moniker corrupted by Sputnik into the Beatniks and then the coup de grace Maynard G. Krebs.....they were shamed into seclusion or something......

From David: ""The independents will vote for McCain or not vote"
Karolenna (or as Jack suggests is it Karl?)

Wow that is the exact opposite of what Obama claims.
He claims all the independents will vote for him."

You failed to mention that I said "if" she is the candidate. There is no doubt in my mind that if "he" is the candidate he will get the independents as is the case right now.

She is too polarizing and many, including many men (I know...sexist) will not vote for her. But, she has paved the way herself for some of the criticism she gets.

I thought maybe it was about the female news reporters who go out and do the actually investigating news reporting and then provide it to the nightly talking-heads so they can take credit for the story..

The insert of commercials into different markets can be manipulated to fit any requirement. This idea that because OBAMA's purchase was a "national buy" so it could not be changed is ....pure BS.

Maybe BO thought the uninformed voter would fall for that lame excuse for His advertising in Florida.

So far they have.

but then.....many men obviously will.......vote for her.

Karolenna,

Where have you been all my life?

"Now she's finding out that maybe she's not the vote of the people."

Well with only about 80,000 votes separating them nationally and about 13 states and Puerto Rico still to vote...I'm not sure we know who is the vote of the people.

So far about an even number of the people like BO and even number of people like HRC.

At this point it is about as meaningful for you to say HRC should drop out as it is for me to say BO should drop out. Why don't we let the other 13 states and PR have their say before we decide who has the "vote of the people".

I stick by my post yesterday. Get rid of delegates, get rid of superDs, get rid of the electoral college. Popular vote for everything.

"It wouldn't be the first time an inexperienced, glib, good looking guy was promoted over a competent woman." -Jamie wrote

I wonder if the sexists men out there could ever admit to that.

"You failed to mention that I said "if" she is the candidate. There is no doubt in my mind that if "he" is the candidate he will get the independents as is the case right now."

Except in all the matchups now -they are even and McCain gets independents.

"Karolenna,

Where have you been all my life"

Well, right here, honey. Where have you been? Have a question?

Disaffected Republicans for Obama

lol

NY Times article on super delegates

Old Clinton Ties and Voters’ Sway Tug at Delegates

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/17/us/politics/17delegates.html?hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1203269881-5xBJxPCUhRkbJK22PFN+QA

So all of you who claim that Obamanation is sensitive to race and now you claim that men are sexist if we don't want Clinton? Nah, we don't want Billary, the same old, tired politics.

alpha, sorry, but out of your mouth comes the same old tired arguments.

Hey isn't time for the first Gay President? Oh strike that, we already had Marty Van Buren !!

"Florida and Michigan: All delegates agree to. a. Not campaign b. not count delegates. Obama takes name off of Michigan ballot."
Posted by: alpha1906 | February 17, 2008 11:52 AM

"Now, did or didn't Clinton agree with the DNC that the Florida and Michigan votes didn't count?"
Posted by: alpha1906 | February 17, 2008 12:06 PM

Point of clarity--I believe it will be the party's credentials committee who will decide whether to seat the state
delegations.

To the best of recollection, none of the candidates agreed that the votes of Florida and/or Michigan would or would not count. It may be more accurate to state that each of the candidates are attempting to influence the credentials committee's decision to reach an outcome more advantageous to each candidate's best interest, since the makeup of the credentials committee will in all likelihood determine the outcome. (ie. which candidate controls more of the committee members)

alpha - there you go again with your spin.

All of the dems held fundraisers in Florida including Obama

He ran ads in Florida

Please don't try to act like he's better than the rest he is more of the same with a lot of empty words empty words empty words

This explains totally why I am behind Obama and will "roll the dice".

Bridging Divides and Changing the Dynamics of Politics: Obama

"In amassing a large coalition of young and old, black and white Democrats, independents and some Republicans, Obama offers the possibility that America can finally get beyond its partisan stalemates. If that happened, a united nation would be better equipped to move forward on everything from the economy to the scourge of Islamic terror.

I say that because our polarization has become so acute that it is our most pressing problem. Solving it could open the door to other solutions. As it is, we are unable to muster a consensus on the time of day. The only thing that moved through Congress lately with bipartisan backing was the economic stimulus package. No surprise there — all politicians love to give away money."

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2008/02/17/2008-02-17_hillary_clinton_and_neocons_use_the_same.html

Fry wrote:

"Sorry not familiar with who you are referring to."

yes...that's exactly my point - poor Beat women get no credit.

LOL

Alpha

I was going to go get the information and list it year by year, but I was at two single spaced pages with another ten years to go. Read some of it for yourself

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4494319

Why are BO people getting so upset......isn't their candidate ahead....?
Posted by: unlikely_burrito | February 17, 2008 12:24 PM

U.B. my theory is that the Obama supporters are so excited about the "change" BHO will bring that they can't understand any of us not falling on our knees in worship of "the man". Since they are ahead, they might as well ignore Hillary since they have already determined that BHO has the delegates necessary to win and that he will be the next President of the United States. Sounds a bit to me like a wish for us to join them in a motion to "vote by acclimation".

That's what I think IMHO

March 4th can not come soon eough

Hawaii's on-line newspaper endorses Obama today - Hawaii's caucus is tomorrow

"Democrats need Barack Obama's vision, leadership"

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2008/Feb/17/op/hawaii802170328.html

Karoleena on that "Change" post from NY News... I still go back to my contention that real change is not possible in our system. I am going to repost this for your consideration:

Has anyone ever stopped to think this is politics?

Since when has politics NOT been nasty?

By their very nature, politicians will fight tooth and nail to win. Just like Obama did with his attacks against Hillary when his poll numbers were down and Hillary was ahead. Just like Hillary did when she saw that Obama's attacks were starting to work.

It doesn't matter which candidate gets the nomination. You can toss the "new politics" speech right out the window. If Obama is the nominee you can bet your house, your money, your loved ones on the reality that HE WILL ATTACK! McCain will attack; he will attack. This will be nasty like all the Presidential campaigns become.

Really, we can "hope" all we want for this political paradigm shift, but it isn't going to happen any time soon. In fact, it won't happen until there are MAJOR structural changes in the making of politics in the United States:

*Publicly funded elections with strict $$$ limits
*End of corporate political parties holding a structural monopoly
*Requirement that the candidates discuss issues with REAL debates on VISION and ideas -- sans personal attacks
*An end to lobbyists
*An end to the "professional" political handlers who pocket millions for themselves win or lose.
*Require voting as a duty of citizenship -- If you love America, you must understand that this is but a small obligation. Oh and it ends all the fighting of each side trying to stop the other side's voters from casting ballots.
*End the Electoral College
*Civility in all political discourse in and out of the political branches.

I would add that Proportional Representation would be far more fair than the winner-take-all system in Congressional Districts, but I can't really see how that would work. You would end up with a far larger number of Reps and Senators in Congress and I doubt that would help much.

Anyway, you want "new politics"? Demand a structural change in politics and governance.

OK - off to read about the plight of the Beat women.

TTYL

It's a shame Obama's campaign wasn't ready for day one. It took media intervention for the campaign to take off. . So explain to me Obama folk why should I trust Obama to be ready from day one when he has used the media spin and lies to move into first place.

"lies to move into first place"

Explain the lies. And, give links.

Good Dog Nigel

Arf, arf, he goes, a merry sight,
Our little hairy friend,
Arf, arf, upon the lampost bright
Arfing round the bend.
Nice dog! Goo boy,
Waggie tail and beg,
Clever Nigel, jump for joy
Because we're putting you to sleep at three of the clock, Nigel.

----john lennon, In His Own Write

Detailed analysis of whats to come.

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/barone/2008/02/17/more-on-a-hillary-comback.html

KENOSHA, Wis. - Hillary Rodham Clinton said yesterday that she's willing "to go the distance" against Barack Obama - even if it means a messy floor fight over contested delegates at the Democratic National Convention in Denver this summer.

http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/nation/ny-usdems175581381feb17,0,6151316.story

Jamie,

You may think the R's are drooling over a HRC nomination as many in the MSM and elsewhere would have you believe that she would be an easy victory. I actually don't believe that, in-fact I think if HRC becomes the D's nominee she will win the November election. I think the easiest person for the Rs to beat is Barry Obama. Obama said something in reaction to HRC's pretty words and speeches comments, and I am paraphrasing here, but he said 'just go look at my web site I have 10 points solutions on every problem facing the US' . That is not his exact quote but it is pretty close. Well he does have 10 list problems as he sees them, in fact he has illuminated every problem under the sun as he sees it. His major problem is all he does is list them, and that is where it ends. Again if you go to his web page where he list all his so called problems/solutions, some on the face of them seem to violate the protection given us in our Constitution. But why should this surprise me when he thinks granting illegal immigrants a drivers license will protect us if we, "the legal citizen of this country", should become involved in an accident with a car they are driving. No doubt he looks good, has a picture pretty family, he sounds good, can deliver a great speech, but once you start peeling away at his proposals, all you are left with are pretty words. Obama and HRC are not that far apart on what road they will take if elected to POTUS. HRC not only addresses the problems as she seems them, she has also laid out a plan. Experience matters greatly, and Barry just doesn't have it.

"Why are women... so much more interesting to men than men are to women?"

-Virginia Woolf

"Thinking with ovaries"...........it DOES kind of sound like Archie Bunker......I mean, if Archie Bunker ever really knew the word "ovary"...........

those are some powerful things, I guess, those ovaries.......they even killed Gilda with malice aforethought

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQkHT1jRHS8

Some appropriate music.

well, I've meddled and mused about as long as I can today......nice tawkin' with you folks.......always a pressure..........lol

Recovering from dead faint

FD - I agree with you. For reasons that at this time are unknown, the Republican party wants Obama.

Now, I do think McCain is a weak candidate because he really is showing his age of late and you can only hear "My Friends" so many times before it becomes an irritant, but Republicans are much better than Democrats at acting as one unified force.

"McCain, Obama, Clinton votes "

Over how many years?

Wendy,
THanks for the reply. You can be sure the Republicans are going to tar Obama on foreign policy and sending Zbig to Syria when he did, is a stupid mistake. There are some here who say they have a good foreign policy background. Nope, no answers to the many questions I asked. Torture? Zbig said nothing while his mujhadeen captured, tortured and beheaded Soviet soldiers covered unlike terrorists in the Geneva Convention. Wasn't then Carter giving aid to groups responsible for violating international law? I could go on about the Carter SECSTATE who is now Obama's foreign policy expert. McCain will just ask if we want to go back to the Carter years. Then Obama will point to RIce and Clarke. Then McCain will point out that Obama tried to exclude REAL ID from the amnesty bill and that Rice has called the next President the Janitor of the world who must fix all the problems of the world which Bush caused. Yeah, like Imad the terrorist who just had his ass blown up in Syria that shares common golas with the US....LOL

Shelia points out a good observation. I agre that sleeping in bed with Kos and Huff is simply not acceptable for Obama. He said one thing in 2004 about Iran and now is too afraid to answer the big question: where did Iran make their new carbon-based centrifuges that are presently making enriched uranium gas? The NIE says they know Iran has stopped their nuclear bomb program. Why? Do they know where all the facilities are? And Obama talked tough sanctions against Iran last year to AIPAC< yet didn't even vote against sanctions while calling Hillary's vote a Republican lite one....LOL, You know Obama has a record of missing or voting present for tough votes.

So you see, it isn't so much how Obama and McCain have pandered to get nominated. It is about actual policy and how much they stand up now against their base. Obama wants to sound tough but play to the Left. Doesn't work in the general election. If Florida and Michigan don't count, if for the first time superdelegates are told how to vote, if media can so blatantly help one candidate and attack another while intentionally supressing news so Americans are less alarmed than they should be, McCain offers a different choice, He can be contained by a Democratic Congress and be certain not to pull a Zbig mistake on foreign policy.

I would prefer Biden over Obama for the same reason.

And Shelia your read of Obama's Reagan remarks are too funny. Reagan entered the WH with NEOCONs and a message of lower taxes, America first, building up the military, supply side economics and beat the evil Empire. The nation responded to the change and hope he backed up with clear policy. Obama mischaracterized the mood of the country and downplayed rhetoric having content behind it so he could lift Reagan's words and not the meat. If you are not swift enough to see this, then what can I say? Yes, Reagan later through out the NEOCONs and went centrist, but that was not what Obama was talking about. He put Clinton with Nixon as is he cheap shot way of persoanl attacks. He was enven forced to repent his blather and tell the California office the Clinton Era did many good things. Did he put Bill in with Nixon in that debate. He says whatever he thinks will work becuase he knows the Dean Wing is all about idenetiy politics, style over meat and rhetoric over record and policy. It is hard for mainstream Democrats to stomach such contentless messaging. Obama has run one of the most hypocritical camapigns I have ever witnessed topped off with the elementary school slogan of "Yes we can". Thank God that America will say to so many Obama supporters on the far Left, "No you won't".

And Wendy, on Domestic issues Hillary has the better positions. Obama leads for clear reasons. Media bias, Iraq as the singular spin on his foreign policy judgment, style, activists in Red States he will not win, uncounted Florida delelgates and personal attacks on the CLintons including playing the race card.

Now I should cherr for that. Even McCain hasn't sunk that low. I can't wait for McCain to tell America what Obama tried to pull during the immigration fight. He will point out that Obama's position refutes his own former Clinton advisor.

"I have knew JFK and Reagan, and Senator Obama, you're not either in substance ot fact". There is a perfect storm out there and Obama may very well be on the receiving end. Let's see if women in America can see through this rather blatant sexism, pandering and vague rhetoric.

"Yes we can"

EuroTom -US has been asked to put bases in Romania and Bulgaria, yes. I beleieve they would be NATO bases. Putin threatens to target them and the Ukraine. In fact, when the wall came down, part of the agreement was for Eastern Euorpean countries to give up enrichment and WMD research. US forced them to agree. If Russia wants Iran to enrich, then why should the US continue to keep Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine and others from going ahead themselves. Now this is exactly the info Obama should comment on being the head of the Senate Foreign Relations Sub Committee on Eastern Europe and NATO. McCain will crown him with this and Patraeous, I believe, may become the NATO commander. Yes a perfect strom indeed.

Max T.. I was asking because Romania and Bulgaria are both EU countries now... so I didn't quite get the connection. Thanks for clarifying it.

As always please forgive my typos.....speed trumps no spell check....LOL I think you can figure out what I meant despite the wild spelling. If I took longer to check, the post would fall out of place. Shorter posts unfortunately don't convey as much meat......

Current session of Congress

Obama Missed 38.8 % of Votes

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/o000167/
McCain Missed 55.7% of Votes

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/m000303/

Clinton Missed 27.1% of Votes

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/c001041/

This is Obama's first session of Congress.

She has three previous sessions and McCain has eight so of course they have missed more votes.

IOW, you need to know which apples CNN was comparing to which oranges.

"Obama’s untested achilles heel is his relationship with three men–Tony Rezko, William Ayers, and Rashid Khalidi. These names will become shorthand for Corruption, Terrorism, and the Destruction of Israel. Oh yes, I know. I am going to extremes. Well, let me lay out the facts and explain how the Republicans will likely use these relationships to bludgeon Obama’s Presidential aspirations into dust. My challenge to you Obama supporters is to explain to me and other readers of this blog how Obama will defuse these issues."
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/16/no-he-cant-because-yes-they-will/#more-1544

Drat Forgot about the three link rule

For this session of congress

McCain 55.7% of votes Missed with 8 previous sessions to be counted

Obama 38.8% of votes Missed no previous sessions

Clinton 27.1% of votes Missed with 3 previous sessions of Congress to be counted

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/110/senate/vote-missers/

I would invite passionate politcos to read this article written by one of my very best friends: CURT PAVOLA.

I posted it on my blog: http://eurotom.blogspot.com/ . The piece is called "This American Moment".

Curt Pavola is a former city councilmember for the City of Olympia,
WA, (...where democracy is a way of life...) and an advocate for
positive social change and equal justice under the law.

Mr. Pavola can be reached at CPavola@aol.com

He was an Edwards supporter and now supports Obama. I am currently contemplating his reasons for supporting Mr. Obama. ....

Congress...oh yeah....them.

tt

Max,

Great Arguement on Reagan and what was wrong.

If it were an arguement against the Reagan Administration I'd slap my hands together and whole heartedly agreee.

But we two are speaking apples and oranges. I said Obama thought the Management and the way it was organised was a great example of how to govern this country right.

Nothing to do with NEOCONS. Management style is not political.

But as I said, the Clinton's were right to try and spin the statement. just didn't work.

Sheila The Nun

from the animosity read on this Forum proves Will Rogers to be correct when he said, “I am not a member of any organized party - I am a Democrat”.

Will Rogers also said wisely, “Democrats never agree on anything, that's why they're Democrats. If they agreed with each other, they would be Republicans.”

yo soy Horsedooty!

Is Sheila the Nun also Sheila the Chef?

tt

Patsi said, "Not worthy of your pith and vinegar."

I always heard it as PISS and VINEGAR. Have I always had bad ears?

yo soy Horsedooty!

Its me TipToe,

just enjoying my new title

Maybe I should have said, Sheila The Nun Chef!

http://www.taylormarsh.com/
Sometimes these success stories get lost in the "horse-race stories" about political campaigns and the exposes of taxpayer-funded bridges to nowhere, and who said what to whom. This story of emergency contraception at the FDA is just one story of many. Senator Clinton saw a problem that affected people's lives. She then stood up to the challenge, never wavered and worked to solve it. The challenges we face in health care, our economy, global climate change, and issues of war and peace, need a leader who has those skills and commitment.

Everything in WI has been cancelled today because of the freezing rain. I wanted to see Hillary in Depere.

Hillary's speech last night in Milwaukee was excellent. The best one she has given yet.

Got it Sheila!!

tt

Shelia you are just plain wrong. Obama talked about the message of hope and change Reagan used to make a sea change in this country. He summarized the immediate past as unaccountable but excludes the Vhurcg Committee and that Congress had spent time making government accountable. You had Carter trumpeting human rights while his brither pissed on the front law and Zbig was asleep at teh wheel. The country didn't respond to Reagan's message of hope and change, they responded to how they felt by Democratic direction and the meat behind Reagan's word. Had he not accomplished some of his detailed agenda, no one would remember his rhetoric that Obama dug up to compare with his own rhetoric. Managment style.....LOL,, Grodo is quite correct. Zbig just got back from Syria. Rice is out there saying lovely things, Calrke offers Real IDs and Obama shoots them dowm in Amnesty. Yes, great manamgement style with the activist wing and Kossaks on the internet. Great management style having your wife go out and accuse Bill of being racist. Great management style in telling Florida it doesn't count....LOL This is just the managment style McCain is going to have fun with. Obama can't even manage to hold a sngle meeting for a Senate Committee. He can't manage to vote on important bills and he certainly can't manage to be consistent before that special interest group called AIPAC and his behavior on the stump. Yep, Gordo points out just a few problems. Now add Zbig to that too. And let's add Rice.

Of course Obama has managed to play the race card.

Bravo on the management argument. Wonderful. You make my point exactly while side stepping the actual text of Obama's Reagan talk.

Hope and Change a la Reagan?

Yes we can.....

Now that was a big typo, I meant Church Committee. You know what that was.....

typing too fast with two fingers...LOL

Before I go back to work.

Again Max max max.....Obama was talking about "A FORM OF MANAGEMENT STYLE that Reagan used for his administration. NOT ABOUT REAGAN"S politics being the way Obama would want to go politically...

Again....The Clinton took the statement again SPUN it and did that well apparently because you can't get over it.

When the Primary is over lets get together. You are a great researcher, your just not listening to my oranges. ;0)

Obama no longer answers questions at townhall meetings and is refusing many press interviews.

How can you expect him to run the country if he can't or won't answer questions?

Besides that Max,

How in the world can Obama be so leftist, according to many on this BLOG and Clinton be so centrist and then Obama is liked to Reagan who is so NEOCON.

Can't have it both ways my friend. ;0)

Later, time for a buffet by the pool! I'm making it and not eating it...lol

Obviously, the OB campaign have made the decision that the less OB talks without a script the better.

Here is a write up in The New Yorker on Barack Obama. It was printed in May 2007. It's a good read for supporters of both candidates.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/05/07/070507fa_fact_macfarquhar?currentPage=1

I can't imagine Texans liking their choices of BO or HRC.

I have not lived there since the mid- nineties, but back then Texas was really quite a racists and sexists state. I used to refer to living there as being in a 1950's time warp.

Reagan's style.

I remember back, must have been 87 or 88, there was the usual bunch of old codgers watching the ticker at the St Pete Charles Schwab. One of them said with a straight face that the thing that he admired most about Reagan was that, no matter what, he always had a perfectly knotted neck tie. The rest of the row nodded in agreement.

More on the management side, Nancy was his hatchet man. I can easily see that type of thing happening in an Obama administration.

My friend Tresy, who remains unsure of whom he wants for a Dem Presidential Primary, wrote this piece to me:

Tom:

The blogger Digby has argued very eloquently that the dustup between Hillary and Obama has been pretty tame by historical standards (no push polls about anyone's illegitmate black babies, for instance) and that it's the media that's inflating minor squabbles into "smears" and the like. I do think Obama's Harry and Louise ad is fucking stupid tactically (the Republicans will use it against him when its health care time), and I thought Hillary's ad about Obama wanting to raise taxes on middle incomes was similarly stupid. But these are at least issue ads.

What I continue to find distressing is the personal animosity coming from the Obama supporters. Hillary supporters certainly have their guilty parties too, but they don't demonize Obama like Obama supporters demonize Hillary. It's like they did not learn anything from the Lewinsky years about how the media's hatred of the Clintons works. Instead they internalize every stupid accusation and treat it like gospel: she cold, she's Macchiavellian, ruthless, corrupt, etc. If Obama were just another politician like John Kerry, then I'd start wtih lower expectations, but this is the candidate of "change" and I really think his supporters should "be the change you want in the world." And I'm not seeing it.

Wait until Obama gets the nomination (which I think is all but certain) and watch how the media turns on a dime about him. His supporters are going to be singing "Where did our lovie go?" I just saw a salvo of this form in the Globe and Mail yesterday, suggesting that Obama is a foreign policy disaster waiting to happen, a Jimmy Carter out of his depth. We'll wait a long time for a similar column about John "Bomb bomb Iran" McCain.

Since mid-December, when the presidential candidates turned their full attention to the Iowa caucuses, Sen. Barack Obama has led the race for good press and Sen. Hillary Clinton has lagged the farthest behind. From Dec 16 through Jan 27 five out of six on-air evaluations of Obama (84%) have been favorable, compared to a bare majority (51%) of evaluations of Mrs. Clinton. Examples:
http://www.cmpa.com/election%20news%202_1_08.htm

ET, here in South Carolina Obama was marketed as if he was the candidate people were entitled to get. And that Hillary was a mean-spirited interloper who was there to spoil the historical moment.

With that mindset, there's not a heck-of-a-lot Hillary can do without saying that he's running a racist campaign.

Doing that comes with obvious problems for the country. But, if she doesn't lay the cards on the table, then how can we move ahead?

I think Obama's campaign has been a disaster for race relations--it's almost as if he was going back to the quota system, this time for the presidency.

He has to be better than that.

I hope I'm misreading things, but that's how I feel.

Interesting take on knowledge in the U.S. It would appear to be having a huge impact on our politics of the day.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/14/books/14dumb.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5087&em&en=38525b1af4915364&ex=1203397200

U Burrito said this, "have not lived there since the mid- nineties, but back then Texas was really quite a racists and sexists state. I used to refer to living there as being in a 1950's time warp.

As a nearly lifetime resident of the state of Texas, I suppose that there are people that don't like Texas. Hard to believe but I think it matters where you lived. You did not say. If you lived in Houston or Dallas I could understand you maybe would think that. I used to have a black roommate when I was going to school in Boston that said he liked the south because he knew he was hated there. Not like the north where he was never quite sure who hated you. Racism is all over. I live in a decidedly mixed (integrated) neighborhood in Fort Worth and have for over 25 years. I cannot be sure but I think my family and their families get along.

where did you live in TX and where do you live now that is so enlightened?

yo soy Horsedooty!

Why I’m voting for Hillary [video]
[This One’s for the Girls-Faith Hill?]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9z-Aatd0wA

An author friend of mine just wrote a piece called "If Barack Were Brenda" Since I cannot post it here, I will post it to my blog for your perusal.

That whole Regan and republicans have all the ideas comment was really intended to be slam on the Clinton years by Mr. "new kind of politics" Obama.

It didn't work out that way and he did get a lot of crap for it and he did have to back peddle from it.

His campaign has clearly abandoned the rhetoric of the Reagan and the republicans being the party of ideas.

I think that's Martina McBride , Linda. My sister just saw her in concert a few weeks ago.

"How in the world can Obama be so leftist"

He is not leftist but his base of support is.

Which I find amusing.

The wingnuts lambast HRC for being a DLC centrist and in the same sentence praise Obama to the high heavens.

In fact Obama's ideas are just an incremental step forward from Clintons accomplishments.
Look at his health care plan, it is create community pricing and subsidize those needing help.
That is it as far as I can tell.
And to tell the truth as Bill Clinton discovered, to make any progress in this political environment it takes small steps.
There is not going to be any great leap forward, as in 1964 & 65 , When we had all of those social programs enacted. No matter how much we dream them.

Do you know what Obama's poverty plan is?
Get a job.
If you need training we will help but get a job.
If you need child care we will help but get a job.
If you need basic life skills we will help but get a job.
And we will help with the job search and placement but get a job.

He ain't your daddy's liberal

That is why I can support him in the general election his approach to the issues in my working class neighborhood make sense.
If he is right on issues I know something about I will cut him some slack on those I don't.

Jack

Linda - great video - thanks!!!

Flatus,
I been called a racist on this board. I agree with you on it going backwards because the BO campaign has created a double standard, and that is not fair.

It's okay for them to talk about their blackness, but if anyone else does then they are a racists!

The BO campaign seems to thrive when given an opening to use whole bunch of worthless negative labels to deflect opinions and/or comments that they do not want to address.

Mind you, these are the same labels that they want to eliminate...by bringing "hope" and "change" and "people together."

It's all BS

Corey, I think it is Faith Hill. Really a neat video.

Here is another one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlm-rZ2zeEY

Crap, I forgot to put my blog url on the post re: "If Barack Were Brenda"

http://eurotom.blogspot.com/

If you are a MySpace enthusiast, you can also visit Nancy there. She is the author of "Dear Violet: Letter From a Desert Grave"

She is also an artist and peace activist.

http://www.myspace.com/dearvioletbynsigafoos

Your welcome Wendy. The weather is horrible here today, so I have playing on the computer all day. It is nice to share if I find something interesting. Hope everyone is having a great day!!

I found it , Linda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MJwdY6Y0Hw

Horsedooty

I lived in Texas two different times in my life one was Dallas proper, and the most recent was Plano. I found Plano to be very racists and sexists.

I did not say where I live now is enlightened...I live in Ohio now, the most enlighten place I lived was California.

Tiptoe,
"Shelia the Nun" is not Shelia. Probably Maxtrue.

Hi anyone here Tim R on MTP this morning? He opened the show saying Obama leads in WI 46 to 42 in Ohio its 54 to 36 and 50 to 40 in TX. He left out the part that Clinton is leading in OH and TX. Anyone listening and not looking at the graphic would walk away thing BO is ahead in those two states. et tu Tim Russert? Also on The Early Show yesterday morning Jim Axelrod said Rep. Lewis has said he has not changed his vote and then ended with "but for how long"? Why didn't he just wink at the camera? What is going on here?

I read a review of Sheryl Crow's new cd yesterday. Two of the people she bashes on her record are George Bush and Lance Armstrong. The reviewer called it probably the most anti-Texas record in history. LOL!

A good hot drink for those of you fighting a cold and sore throat and it is sugar free.

My wife calls it a

lemony snickit

A coffee mug with water
a table spoon and a bit more of lemon juice
2 or 3 packs of splenda depending on how sweet you like it.
stir all together in the mug
place in the microwave for a min.

Enjoy

Jack

Gayle

Men

That's all I have to say about that.

Wendy said, with a certain hard spin that only are allowed to do.
"men"

Hey! Wendy I resemble that remark.

Jack

yup folks, I married. I learned the rules a long time ago. ;-0

Doots....I know some old Texas women and one old man who are early voting for Hillary. Of course, they're in Vidor.....

Thanks Corey, my knowledge of singers has gone south.

For those thinking about putting antibacterial additives to the lemony snickit. You can if you want but I like my sterilizing solution straight up.

Also as I learned during several youthful indiscretions
there is nothing worse than a bad cold with a hangover to boot.

Jack

Horsedooty,

Plano was like how you described however there was a good share of natives living there....The natives we met were the bigoted ones, we stayed clear of them and they of us, we were kind of treated as being "flakes" from CA.

If it's time for the Clinton campaign to get down-&-dirty, maybe it's time for the ad that morphs Obak into W.

Care to design a sandwich for the candidates in both parties?

http://www.esquire.com/features/food-drink/sandwiches

Good grief, Vidor. Wasn't that were those 2 guys drug that older black gentleman behind their pickup several years ago? And Vidor is so close to the Louisiana line they would be suspicious to me. A lawyer once told me that the closer you get to the state line of Louisiana the farther away from the rule of law as most of us know it.

yo soy Horsedooty!

I am off to bed... Work beckons early..

Here is a YouTube to watch.. good night and let's try to get along...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCl4z5dJP28

WOW... the video link I posted is about Hillary and Barack or Barack and Hillary as a Dream team. Music by Garth Brooks apparently. It's good folks... VERY GOOD and they look VERY GOOD TOGETHER!

bye

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCl4z5dJP28

How do you "early vote?"

I have looked on the SOS of Ohio site and didn't find anything, and BO ads that are running tell people to "vote early"

Oh, shame on the NY Times!

How could they, in today's lead editorial, have the audacity to suggest that candidates answer specific questions on a broad range of subjects? (NY Times Week in Review page 11, Feb 17 2008)

Now I believe McCain and Clinton could provide meaningful, thought out answers to the questions. But, is it fair holding Obama to the same standard?

Hello. I'm new here, but have been following this site for weeks - with glee, I might add.

I just wanted to respond to whskyjack's 4:03 pm message:

"Do you know what Obama's poverty plan is?
Get a job.
If you need training we will help but get a job.
If you need child care we will help but get a job.
If you need basic life skills we will help but get a job.
And we will help with the job search and placement but get a job.

He ain't your daddy's liberal"

That's probably one of the most powerful set of statements I have seen on behalf of BO. It doesn't address ageism, sexism or (ahem) racism or many of the other myriad boundaries preventing people from finding work, but it is a vast improvement over the blatant disregard we have seen for the past seven years from this White House.

Should Senator Clinton not win the primary, I will vote for Senator Obama.

Meredith in Ohio

Blue

for Obama
Grilled Hawian chicken on white bread sprinkled with sun flower seeds. With a Yammer pie on the side

For HRC
Fresh pork side fried up crisp with a banana on a begal, slathered with lots of peanut butter

MMMMMMM
Yum

Jack

ET - I like the youtube you posted - other than having the ticket backwards.

:-D

Doots....Vidor has a loooong history, that's fer sure.

"You'd be better off with a reasonable amount of sugar"

You might be right but I find that the splenda works for me.
I try to spend my carbs wisely. If I used sugar then I can't have that good piece of chocolate.
It is all trade offs

Jack

Bri.. ya know I like ya..but really... for a lot of women..(surprise, surprise) this WILL come down to women's issues.. sorry bud..

I went to the mall yesterday in Grand Rapids. They were having a health fair at the mall. I walked past a woman (presumably a doctor) who was giving a speech to a group of people. She was talking about the benefits of quitting smoking. She said. "If you smoke , you should quit right now."

about sugar/sugar substitute.. if you have any kind of digestive problem (IBS, etc) do NOT use sugar substitutes..sorbitol is the WORST thing... will knock you out

Tylenol

I'm eating chicken soup with a lot of fresh ginger.
According to a Cambodian friend ginger takes care of all stomach problems. Seems to for me.

Of course it may also be the fact that I don't drink all that damn whisky every day.

Jack

Kennedy said he is “shocked and surprised” by a Clinton pamphlet that is circulating in Wisconsin, arguing that Obama’s health care plan is not universal. He described the pamphlet as “a misrepresentation and wrong” and said he would not support Obama if his plan were not universal.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/02/17/politics/fromtheroad/entry3841351.shtml

However, FactCheck.org, a non-partisan website run by the Annenberg Public Policy Center, backs up Clinton's claim in a recent report that Obama's plan is not universal.

Actually Jamie, I believe Chris Wallace had an interview with the DNI on Fake News. but i agree.

Linda it depends what is is.:-}

Edwards and Obama finally got to meet today. I sure hope something positive comes from that and before March 4 because Edwards had many Ohio supporters.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/17/obama-and-edwards-meet/

Shelia, I try not to totally fill the thread, but Obama talked about Reagan's message of hope and change. I read the transcript and will post sections if you like. I am not saying that Obama agreed with the meat behind Reagan's message, but that without such meat and the mood in the country at the time that Obama clearly mischaracterizes, there would have been no sea change. That sea change was the central thrust of what Obama was saying and that his message of hope and change resonants along a similar public sentiment. We can beat this to death, but I never said that Obama was actually like Reagan. You can't discuss managements style or his power without discussing the meat behind it. Obama also misses the most imporat quality that lifted Reagan's message -confidence. It was borne by yes we can, it was the confidence in principles entirely different than those espused by the Obama camp. It was confidence that made the Soviets blink, confidence that restored some economic footing. It was confidence that Clinton projected. In fact, confidence born from coherent strategies is essential to economic recovery and the restoration of leadership.

How confident will America feel with Obama's foreign policy? More confident than with HJillary including economy and healthcare? The Left branded Hillary's confidence as arrogance, yer Reagan made it work.

I am not confident about seeing Obama on the Judicial Watch List or his dealings with Rezko who he was FORCED to return funds and dealt with after everyone knew he was crooked. I am not confident in his pandering to AIPAC and declaring the things he has on the stump. I am certainly not confident any nation can march into the Jyber Pass or kill OBL by bombing the crap out of villages. I am not cofident with ZBIG in Syria or even all those "present" votes. You see, it is a matter of confidence and nothing in Obama's record or campaign, his rhetoric and policy statements that make me confident he can deall with the mess on day one. Just his advisor Rice alone, saying all the world's problems are Bush's fault makes me less confident Obama's foreign policy group has a clue. Obama's trying to ruin the Amnesty compromise with a bill banning wroker status checks and reversing himself in the later debates amke me less confident I can even get a straight answer out of Obama.

Democratic polls clear state that Obama is the more Liberal candidate and many Democrats describe Hillary as conservative...LOL

I am not sure where you get your facts.

At the end of the day, Americans may feel more confident that McCain is telling it like he will do, rather than Obama who is all over the place and would be unchecked by a Democratic Congress lead by the Dean Wing and the decider Pelosi and company.

You can overlook my questions, but they will come up like Gordo says. Already many Jewish leaders are very troubled. Woman are upset with the Democratic sexism not even commented on by Pelosi. Hispanics have some reason to vote for McCain. Independents will absolutely see how Obama asnwers my questions. Reagan Democrats are already leaning to McCain. Still if Hillary takes Ohio, Pennslyania and Texas and does not get the nomination as Fliroda and Michigan are not counted Obama will be running with a broken wheel. Voters will be damned pissed and Independents play a huge role, women even larger.

I respect your ability to smile and just keep saying Yes we can yes we can, but I'm not some vaccuos child. Nothing Obama has uttered has approached the rhetorical power of JFK or MLK, not even RFK or FDR. And thses guys had so much meat backing them up. Compare the life of JFK to that of Obama. Or the struggle of FDR, the greater struggle of MLK. Even RFK had a dream. He wanted to make things as they are not, but towed a far different line than Obama.

Meat, not gravy, content not form, substance not identitiy politics. You would have thought the Democrats would have learned something by now, yes?

OOopsss. I forgot, "Yes we can". "Let's turn the page"

"A hard rains gonna fall "might be more appropiate, along with the confidence we can make it through the storm together. Such realism is sorely missed.

Meredith in Ohio

He doesn't put it quite that bluntly. It was my phrasing not his.
However it wouldn't hurt at all for him to run that kind of ad in states like Missouri.
As my sister , the single mom, says , she doesn't mind helping people out but they should at least get up in the morning like she has too.

Blue,

I'll think about the sandwiches, but just for useful information that Monte Cristo from Canters Deli is out of this world. The only thing better was a Zucky's Number 6 in Santa Monica and the restaurant is no longer there.

It was a mountain of a sandwich that required two people using both hands to eat: Rye Bread, Egg Salad, Corned Beef, Turkey and slices of red onion. Nothing better at 2:00 a.m.

Jack,

Ginger is almost a miracle food. Stomach problems, anusea, gall bladder flare ups, migraines.

Best if used as grated fresh root in warm water as a tea.

I think my anusea may have been nauseated.

Jack - I agree, ginger's good for what "ales" ya :)

I actually find that Dr. Pepper (not diet DP, regular) really settles any problems... I musta had something wayyy wrong last week tho, cos I was in agony..

I'm nervous about what will happen to Jews, Muslims, and well everyone else thats not Huckabees type of christian if he wins.

I believe he said in the debates he didn't believe in eveloution so thats out too.

"I'm nervous about what will happen to Jews, Muslims, and well everyone else thats not Huckabees type of christian if he wins.

I believe he said in the debates he didn't believe in eveloution so thats out too. "

Anytime someone says they want to put the 10 commandments into the Constitution that means trouble. My mantra is that you cannot legislate morality.

Jamie,

Speaking of nausea, you guys will apreciate this. The NHK is reporting that in India right now, everyone is having a "manlyness" convention, the nations are all getting together to see who has the bigger, more powerful weapons. The U.S.A. guy being interviewed was gushing about how the U.S. has the most weapon entries this year.

http://www.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/index.html

You know, Barack's campaign is worth it just to see all of you entitled Clintonites squirm. An African American with great credentials, both educational, legislative and grassroots, runs not a poor symbolic campaign so black folks in the Democratic party will feel good about themselves, but a real, by gosh, full fledged and funded campaign. And y'all don't know what to do. I can almost see the tears welling in your eyes as you clutch Hillary's picture to your heart, saying 'we can't touch him because we'll be called racist and it's so unfair.' Or you have the others saying, 'it's not his turn, it's just not his turn!'.

You're like folks who wore bell bottoms and polyester shirts long after fashion had changed. Hillary is old news. Barack is now and the future. But when Barack's sworn in as president, I'll make sure that each of you get a Hillary 08 bumper sticker to go with your Kerry/Edwards sticker as a keepsake.

Obama 08!

Looks like BJ Clinton did some sparring today. He really irritates me when he points that finger. I’ve tried to mimic it but I just can’t get that wicked slant to it.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/02/17/673670.aspx

The 10 commandments are simply early common law... most of them are covered in the criminal code..

Karolenna,

I agree. I wonder if he'd have a chance to win. Democrats say they hope he'll win the primary becuase then a democrat would win the preidency. They said the same thing with W.

Jack disputes that the Far Left favors Obama and decries Hillary as a centrist Republican Lite. Well anyone can believe anything they want. Kos and Huff and many other sites have blasted Hillary for years. It is funny anyone would dispute this. Is Obama the more Liberal candidate.?Yes. When you uncover his foreign policy positions now flopped from 2004 you can see the pandering. The fact that Kossaks didn't bash him for his Pakistan remarks is a sign he has an agreement. Now of course, Obama is no Left Winger of the sort Chomsky is, but he knows he enjoys both the Far Left support and media bias. Without this support he would certainly be trailing.

Gordo posted a link to some Obama problems and one does see the new anti-Zionism in the Obama camp. I didn't see Zbig stop off in Israel. Obama has pandered to the anti-war crowd making Iraq central after supporting the Kerry position. He has also joined the Left bandwagon on Iran no matter what theat is brewing.

Now Obama isn't a moonbat, but he clearly accepts the support of the moonbats as his example of uniting America...LOL This is a uniting I think America could do without. The Clintons however, rejected the moonbat camp and forever have been hated by them. No wonder Teddy endorsed Obama. It is dishonest to think JFK would not have endorsed Hillary. He would have had to run as a Republican to get elected today and honest people here know that is true. The Democrat Party today, is not what it was when RFK ran for office. Rove has succeeded to let in the moonbats.

No one strong on national security and defense need apply.

max true is there anyway you could shorten your posts? You have been asked before but you seem to think you are the exception to the rule. Why not get your own blog and post as long a post as you want. You are boring the pants off everyone here.

yo soy Horsedooty!

Hillary would do alot for healthcare in this country.

Maxtrue, are you saying Obama is anti-zionist or the people that work for him are?

OK - give me a break with the over zealous Obama nut making claims he has no proof of.

This is why people are now scared of Obama and the Obama faithful because of nut jobs like that.

We'll all hear about that guy later when he's the one shooting from the clock tower or taking his marching orders from the barking dog down the street.

Karolenna - you don't make BO's case by posting articles about what crack-pots Obama supporters are.

ET

Check out my blog. http://jdurward.blogspot.com

I put up two dream team videos.

"Shooting from the clock tower?" Come on now.

"Karolenna - you don't make BO's case by posting articles about what crack-pots Obama supporters are."

You do a good job representing the crack pots for Hilliary. I notice it seems to get worse "at night". Huummmnnnn!!

A woman died after jumping from the 19th floor of the UN buidling?: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080217/ap_on_re_us/un_body_found

"Jack disputes that the Far Left favors Obama and decries Hillary as a centrist Republican Lite"

LOL

Makes me worry about the american school system.

Max go back and read for content.

Jack

LOL Karolenna LOL -

you can do better than that.

Maxtrue

Please get a blog. It is so much easier to just link. These threads get extremely long and some folks have trouble loading them.

I believe that 'heckling" of any sort at any campaign rally is totally uncalled for.

Would Obama himself condone this behavior ? I seriously doubt it.

Jack...gotta add my 2 cents...

Ginger is good for digestion, it's true, but when you add artificial sweeteners into the mix, you're using that ginger to help digest carcinogens. Sugar has only 16 calories per teaspoon, but Jamie's right...honey is an even better alternative...or you could try stevia or agave nectar.

There has to be more to this UN story.

Dog Eye

The last has a full video and I ask everyone to see if what Shelia spun above is close to accurate.

This is exactly the bending that does not make one confident. Note the logic as to why Reagan tapped into the mood. What was bothering Americans? How can you say after Nixon resigning and the Church Committee there was little accountability? Not only is Obama wrong on history, but to detach the rhetoric of Reagan from the meat is intellectual dishonesty. The real power of Reagan was the confidence he projected. I would argue that is the essential ingredient Obama lacks now simply because without the meat and clear strategies their is no confidence, unless I want to just be confident Obama can dance better than Hillary or McCain which I bet he can.

http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=3263

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/17/585313.aspx

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/01/obama_reagan_changed_direction_of_country_in_way_bill_clinton_didnt.php

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/01/17/obamas_reagan_comparison_spark_1.html#more

The last has the full video

rob43.. i think she was up in the clock tower..

LOL bri

Hi Rob

You haven't shown up in a while. How are you?

Hi Jamie, I'm doing well thank you. How are you?

Dog Eye (first message sent to you was not posted upon review by editors.zit had more links than below)

The last has a full video and I ask everyone to see if what Shelia spun above is close to accurate.

This is exactly the bending that does not make one confident. Note the logic as to why Reagan tapped into the mood. What was bothering Americans? How can you say after Nixon resigning and the Church Committee there was little accountability? Not only is Obama wrong on history, but to detach the rhetoric of Reagan from the meat is intellectual dishonesty. The real power of Reagan was the confidence he projected. I would argue that is the essential ingredient Obama lacks now simply because without the meat and clear strategies their is no confidence, unless I want to just be confident Obama can dance better than Hillary or McCain which I bet he can.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/01/obama_reagan_changed_direction_of_country_in_way_bill_clinton_didnt.php

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/01/17/obamas_reagan_comparison_spark_1.html#more

The last has the full video

http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=3263

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/17/585313.aspx

http://roadkillrefugee.wordpress.com/2008/01/17/obama-cites-reagan-as-his-inspiration-disses-president-clinton/

A few other views on Obama's political Reagan triangulation. Of course, in his book he paints another view on Reagan. The deeper you dig, the more inconsistent and conventional it gets. Again, this is what I mean when I say McCain has some obvious advantages with Obama running.

http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=3263

http://roadkillrefugee.wordpress.com/2008/01/17/obama-cites-reagan-as-his-inspiration-disses-president-clinton/

A few other views on Obama's political Reagan triangulation. Of course, in his book he paints another view on Reagan. The deeper you dig, the more inconsistent and conventional it gets. Again, this is what I mean when I say McCain has some obvious advantages with Obama running.

ABC just showed Obama giving a speech using exact phrases lifted (borrowed, copied) from speeches Duval gave when running for Gov. of Mass. So much for being original.

Alpha 1906,

This piece is one you should read....

"If Barack Were Brenda"

http://eurotom.blogspot.com/

awake with insomnia... drinking chamomile and meanwhile...

Someone speculated whether Washington State would even release the primary votes after the 19 February polling. Washington State has one of the strongest public disclosure laws in the country. I am sure the votes will be released. It's been a couple weeks since the Washington caucuses, and a lot of press has been generated on both campaigns since then. I have no idea if there will be significant differences in candidate support percentages, but I still think we will see them.

new ARG poll has clinton leading in wisconsin ....49=43=7 undecided

That's cool Zumper... Let's hope the voting breaks down with the same percentages!

if the poll had obama up by 10...the MSM would be repeating it all day long .....

anyone know anything about soundcards? Bri? .. I thought I'd blown my sound card, but when I check on the panel, it says "no device" .. does that mean my speakers have shorted? or the sound card's blown?

bowmanc -----------------

I'm not surprised about both using the same phrases. According to one conspiracy theory, Deval Patrick is a "spare Obama". I'll not go into detail - probably too "far out" for most of you.

"Reagan triangulation"

Say that 10 times fast

try detect and repair ....or reboot

Tylenol, is the wire loose?

Tylenol, click start .....click help and support and then detect and repair

better yet, toss out the PC and get an iMac 24"... it 's great!!

Tylenol, have you gone to your device manager and checked your sound and video game drivers?

Is Obama less than supportive than Hillary to Israel? Does his campaign and rhetoric reflect this?

I believe that the his foreign policy advisors and the Obama camp are staking out positions that Israel and many Americans will find eventually are vaguely (as the rest of his foreign policy) anti-Zionist. Now I am not saying this is anything like the Far Left spin on the Zionist conspiracy, but in many ways Obama has been far more disinclined to take a strong position of support for Israel

1. He made comments in 2004 and to AIPAC which are contradicted in his postion on sanctions.

2. He spun the NIE report without questioning the fallout from misinterpretation and the weakness of its wording. Now he has no explanation of how Iran is suddenly spinning new advanced designs of centrifuges, where they were made or even protesting the absurd claim Iran has made to Putin that Iran is not building long range missiles despite international statements and tests to the contrary.

3. ZBig went to Syria as a bone for Assad who is ruining Lebanon and enabling Hizb'Allah with Iran to start a new war. Right after Zbig left , Iran and Syria threatened Israel. They can't prove Israel killed Imad, but even if they did, so what? Why was this beast allowed to live in Syria or Iran to conduct his terror?

4. Obama talks about talking to our enemies as he sports JFK who would laugh. Go to Avalon at Yale and READ the Cuban Crisis Papers -how JFK conducted "talking". Where is Obama's stick?

5. GORDO posted a troubling link in the Obama camp clearly counter to Israeli concerns. Obama didn't even defend his mentor Lieberman. Bush has more loyality.

6. Obama has not labeled Hamas a terrorist organisation nor Hizb'Allah. He talks little about any role Iran has in terror despite Imad the terrorist being blown up in Syria as ZBID departed. This A-hole was the Iranian link to killing Jews in Argentina as well as Americans and Jews around the world.

7. Obama had nothing when Hillary applauded the Israeli attack on a Syrian secret nuclear weapon facility. Obama remains silent as Syria denied the installation existed and covered it up with massive concrete to keep the radiation from being detected by spy Sats.

8. When did Obama blast Ahmadinejads remarks on Israel? Or the failure of NATO to enforce the UN order after the War stopped between Hizb'Allah and Israel? Again the NATO question which Obama has made no comment on in Lebanon, Eastern Europe, Afghanistan and elswhere.

Obama has been very silent as he panders to the Left largely opposed to Israel. This is why he gets their support being a far better "hope" than Hillary on defending Israel. or taking strong national security stances despite his paper in Foreign Affairs. Again, McCain is waiting to play this card.

Tylenol, also you could try system restore ......bring yous system back a few days before your sound went

But, since this is actually the Democratic primary, perhaps we should look at how Democrats have actually voted. Based on the available exit polling data, we find that Hillary Clinton has a commanding lead over Barack Obama in the number of votes – As of February 16, 2008, 391,992 more Democrats voted for Clinton than Obama.
http://www.taylormarsh.com/

Please see the attached chart.

Tylenol, if all else fails, go to control panel, system, hardware, and uninstall the sound card. Then turn off the machine, open it up, and shift the sound card from the slot it's in to a different slot, close things up an reboot. The system should rediscover it and go through the driver installation.

Horsedaddy,

If I had to shorten my answer, how could I show why some think Obama is far less supportive of Israel? I should run over to my blog, write a response and link it here. Maybe the Clinton supporters might enjoy the info. Maybe Independents might also. You can certainly skip my posts. It is just a flick of the mouse wheel and on to discussions of computer reapirs and food.

I don't post on a daily basis.......LOL I equal far less total bandwidth of each the regulars. I just post in spurts!!

Sorry it hurts.

ok..hang on guys... 1) had an IMAC G5 and it had power issues (and of course the model I bought was NOT part of the extended warranty.. it died about 2 weeks after my warranty ran out..bastards).. so.. now I have an HP e-machine.. I know its crappy, but it worked fine till about 2 weeks ago....

2) I went to Help and Support but cannot find detect and repair..

Max..for the love of PETE... stop it.. if ya cant say something in 100 words or less.. dont say it..

have we heard from our illustrious leader since his dinner with Helen? did he spill wine on her again?

well.. I dont know all the details..but lets just say there might have been a new sweater in it for her... i believe it was red wine

Graig

Is there some way to put the commenters' name at the top of the post. It would make it easier to hit the ignore button

Jack

Theres an ignore button?

ummm

Pardon me that would be
Craig

Jack

Ask a favor then screw up the mans name.
^chuckle^
no wonder I can get ahead in this world..

I'm not so much worried about a sweater in it for her as I am about another tree in it for him. The boy is running out of body parts.

-blink- there's an ignore button?? :)

Have you guys seen the "John He is Video?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gwqEneBKUs

i never did hear what happened with the ankle.. another apple martini?

"Theres an ignore button?"

Yep but you have to have it surgically implanted and many days it doesn't work any better than the speel check they implanted at the same time

Jack :-P

For those who have not figured it out I inherited a full set of smart ass genes from both parents.

Jack

If passing over my post is too much for the Obama supporters given I do not come near the total words you all post daily, then I'll depart until I'm asked to return. And then maybe......sorry to have intruded.

The request can be sent to Maxtrue1@yahoo.com

Have fun

it's the ruddy long cursor roll that bothers me.. i think i'm getting carpal tunnel syndrome..

Max... did anyone say leave? just make your posts shorter.. it isnt the frequency ..it's the length.. (think I may have said that a few times before in my life..)

gosh I hope max doesnt do something desperate......If he were to.......it would be all our fault wouldnt it, if he.....if he......
I cant bear to think about it.......

let him go play nice with his gerbles for a while and he will return again without anyone asking. and it will be too soon.

yo soy Horsedooty!

Wewease Wodewick!

sturge.. went to the clock tower??

A little music from jethro tull

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdz_G1VGJ4c

Jack

night all

I'm going to take some advil and see if I can sleep.

Got to take the wife to the airport at 0-dark thirty in the morning. Roads will probably be slicker than snot.

Jack

sleep well jack

"full set of smart ass genes from both parents."

Oh my what big ears you have
The better to hear you with my dear.

nite all.. i'm cacked out..

Brain will never leave, he has nowhere else to go. Sad.

"I'm going to take some advil and see if I can sleep."

Don't say that, you'll upset tylenol. :)

So what if Obama is less supportive of Israel?

Taking a break from writing and checking through the posts.Tom I liked what you wrote about the many things that need fixed. Only a slight difference of opinion, although I think you probably meant this. I know that lobbying is integral to the system, and so my gripe is with the excesses. When used as an information clearinghouse, it can be crucial. Unfortunately that's not how it has unfolded.

Patsi, I will think more on that.

I am now getting ready for work with a scant 2 hours sleep. Apparently I am coming down with a bad cold and that makes it difficult to sleep. I hope I can get through today... when I am very tired, my Dutch gets even worse than it is, and the pressures mount.

Oh well, I will survive...

Warm regards to all.

Well, Corey didn't waste any time! He started up a business!

http://connecticut.metromix.com/restaurants/photogallery/coreys-catsup-and-mustard/308453/content

Does anyone know why, at the beginning of each week's debate segment, Tim Russert announces, "Today, on Meet The Press, it's LAST NAME vs. LAST NAME," not including titles, such as 'SENATOR THIS-OR-THAT? Does Russert think it gives the debates more importance? Does Russert think it gives the debators more gravitas? Is Russert pretending he is a sportscaster, or is Russert simply rude or lazy?

The Clinton campaign put out this statement: "We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the" nomination "process." "We believe the DNC's rules and its calendar provide the necessary structure to respect and honor that role. Thus, we will be signing the pledge to adhere to the DNC approved nominating calendar."
That was the Clinton campaign in September. Here's the Clinton campaign in February. "With regard to Michigan and Florida, our position is clear. We're going to ask our delegates to vote to seat the delegations from Florida and Michigan. We do not think that" "many Americans should have" had "their votes and their voices and their preferences denied.

Then one cant deny hillary clinton has flip floped whenever she realised she was loosing.

hillary clinton claimed words dont change nothing yet in texas she used the omaba cach phrase yes we can and changed it to YES WE WILL. However that was translated by the hispanic odiance in Texas as Si se Puede.

Barack Obama is a good guy. (“For a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Luke 6:43) Obama is thoughtful and considerate of what other people's opinion. He is willing from other's good ideas whether they are republican ideas or democratic ideas. We are to consider who is right for the president position. The president should be humble and listen to what others have to say. One can only learn so much. Clinton can memorize all the treaties and books but she is not practical. She can't organize well for her campaign let alone the presidency. And she is arrogant. She has no planning for the primaries/caucaus after super tuesdays and thinking that would be a sure win. Well, the world favors those who are prepared. Aside, we dont' want another president like Bush being so arrogant. It has proven to be a disaster not just for the US but for the world.
Moreover, Clinton can put out as many plan details as she wants but the republicans are going to filibuster them all if she is nom.

"There seems to be a meme that because someone is inspiring, there has to be no substance."

This is an old prejudice. I think I wrote to you before about it, but it is ancient, heightened during the Rennaissance and Enlightment, to the point where it is ordinary bias to presume that one perfects style at the expense of substance. Teaching rhetoric, I hear this sort of idea expressed by students, noted in the press, and stated in conversation regularly. It is easy for people to fall into this sort of thing even though conceptually it is bunk and Obama is a contemporary exhibit A as to why it is bunk.

I dare say, no matter how many times you point it out, until Obama drones on about policy specifics to the point where no one can ignore the fact that he has specifics (and knows them), many will still assume that one who soars in language is not staying focused on issues.

Obama is quite Ciceronian in his enactment of leadership. He balances a wide culture with eloquence. Yet many often assume Cicero was principally a stylist, which is sheer nonsense.

It is superficial decision making, what social scientists might call peripheral processing. I would wager that many of those who reiterate Obama is all hat and no cattle, as Hillary is encouraging, actually don't know much about her policy positions either.

"There seems to be a meme that because someone is inspiring, there has to be no substance."

This is an old prejudice. I think I wrote to you before about it, but it is ancient, heightened during the Rennaissance and Enlightment, to the point where it is ordinary bias to presume that one perfects style at the expense of substance. Teaching rhetoric, I hear this sort of idea expressed by students, noted in the press, and stated in conversation regularly. It is easy for people to fall into this sort of thing even though conceptually it is bunk and Obama is a contemporary exhibit A as to why it is bunk.

I dare say, no matter how many times you point it out, until Obama drones on about policy specifics to the point where no one can ignore the fact that he has specifics (and knows them), many will still assume that one who soars in language is not staying focused on issues.

Obama is quite Ciceronian in his enactment of leadership. He balances a wide culture with eloquence. Yet many often assume Cicero was principally a stylist, which is sheer nonsense.

It is superficial decision making, what social scientists might call peripheral processing. I would wager that many of those who reiterate Obama is all hat and no cattle, as Hillary is encouraging, actually don't know much about her policy positions either.