Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Wo Hooo ?

Craig - Hey everyone has a bias, which is why some react differently to the same rhetorical stimuli. After all is that one of the hoped for effects of any good activity in your profession. Very American !

(repost from Last Thread)

Good Morning All,

Wow Sturg....Montel is so sad. I'm sorry for that and I wonder how he is going to survive it. He has MS and maybe needs to concentrate on that....or he is one of the best motivational speakers I've ever heard.

When he believes in something, there is no stopping him. I was in the NAVY when he was super recruiter, traveling across the country in his whites. Bigger than life.

Posted by: Sheila | February 2, 2008 8:05 AM

Now don't take me wrong. I'm not slamming or bashing or anything.

WJC was in Atlanta yesterday and made this statement.

"She is a world-class change maker. The best I ever saw," Clinton said

I was amused. Because its so southern and its so classic "Used Car Salesman" like. CUTE!

Posted by: Sheila | February 2, 2008 8:08 AM

ahhhh.......the "democrat's dick cheney" as in powerful vice president, not as in creep.

Craig My Friend,

I totally agree. Where as Clinton/Obama is feasable. Clinton would be best served in the Senate as one of them most powerful and influencial.

I think wonder team for Obama would be Obama/Edwards.....but stranger things have happened. Clinton might find that this is the best way to serve the country.

Because we all know that VEEP has become more industrious and important position in the presidency.

Remember do not protest to much – two effects – stifle the natural response reduces the gain in notoriety or appear guilty.

thanks Ping, I'll remember that. lol

Hey wait, if VP where do you sit , so if done well she could have 8 years on the high chair?
However I do not think HRC Ego (or Bill's) will allow second place on the ticket - she is in to win.
Now Obama is less red blood eater.

And if they join in whatever combo - if done correctly this election clould cover the next 16 years. Oh my that is scary !!
Craig will you be working as you approach 70?

PIng, have hope!

Everything you've learned about Democrats while Drinking REP Koolaid will be proven wrong very soon. I promise. ;0)

Hillary has taken a lot of heat for her yes vote. So did a lot of high profile dem senators too. Think about it for a minute, if Bush/Cheney and his messed up crew would of handled the war correctly and had a good exit plan this vote would not of been an issue. Obama has said the new Pres should make the right decisions on Day 1, well who would of thought a President would make thesed horrible decisions. Bush still has over 11 months to go, so any plan they come up with now may be hard to execute next January. Hillary is the only one that is trying to do something right away. For everyone's sake we better start making better decisions today, we can't change the past. We made our decisions based on what we thought was right at the time except Bush should of looked a little further ahead than he did. Notice the bombings are starting to pick up again, and if the cease fire does not continue, what a mess we will have. McCain may have a problem running on the surge is working. He better hope Tuesday could not come fast enough.

The Huffington Post 2008 Elections, huffpollstrology, polls, pollsters Check Out Polls, Candidates' Horoscopes, Betting Lines And Surrounding Weather For February 2

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/02/check-out-polls-candidat_n_84564.html

Shelia, In my younger days I worked and supported Dems, In fact I am a big fan of Bill Nelson - so I should qualify to southern Dem's !! ;~)
I just will not support central big government for domestic solutions
No Way No Way...
And if all on this blog dig in and pill the onion - I feel most would come to agree.
Same results - Not with Big Central government

Before I make this observation, I'll quote Sheila: "Now don't take me wrong. I'm not slamming or bashing or anything..... "

If Hillary Clinton is Dick Cheney, then it follows that Barack Obama is George W. Bush.

Jamie, from your question last threa Re:bluesmen, In the contemporary section I would be remiss in not suggesting Delbert McClinton and there is a guy in Austin name Malford Milligan and lest not for get Jimmy and Stevie Ray Vaughn. Like I said, I could go on.

yo soy Horsedooty!

We all agree Ping,

But that statement is so opposite of what has happened to our country's budget in the last 8 years.

AND not just the war, but from the first year. To have put us back in the red by giving it back to "some" in the nation was a mind blower for me.

AND now we are giving more money that we don't have to "Some".

Big huge government......Ping, I wonder, are you talking about less taxes? Because in order to be able to get out of George Jr's mess, we will have to tax more.

I mean, even Republican Presidents historically have raised Taxes in order to pay for a war. It just makes sense to refresh the coffers.

The only reason I can think of is because Clinton stands a better chance to become president as veep than senator, if history is any measure.

Patsi: that 8:35 comment was not worth typing or reading. Why would you put that up?

That said, good morning, and one of these days I hope to cull past posts for your wonderful recipes.

I can't imagine HRC accepting 2nd chair, even with Dick-like power. Ane then there's Bill, a force to be reckoned with, for sure. Could Barack make them both behave? I still am waiting for Edwards to weigh in. Still betting he'll endorse Obama.

I'm with Ping. The government that governs best governs least.

Shela, we don't need to raise taxes, we need to cut spending. Iraq would be a good place to start.

We do need major tax reform, but that's a topic for another day...

NYTimes on how Michael VIck's dogs have found home and happiness at Best Friends animal sanctuary in Kanab, Utah.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/02/sports/football/02vickdogs.html?_r=1&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=all

Sturgeone

"but Coulter? For Hillary over McCain....C'mon, get real......they know they have a chance against Obama.......

How about reverse psychology. Coulter knows that any Dem hearing her support Clinton will drive them immediately to Obama, the candidate she knows the Republicans can beat .... gotta think like the snake to know where it is going to strike. :-P

Corey

Like this version of Undecided

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZlSscwvkCA

Sorry you are offended, dog, but if Obama would need Hillary as Cheney, then what does that say?

dnd,

I would love to hear more later too. Maybe we could, on paper, show the REPS how to do that.

I was just talking more toward the Bush Adminstrations return to HUGE Government.

Shelia, I agree, The republicans in power blew it, got what they desreved at the mid term.... They lost conservative values.
No Transperancy - They must go...

Craig,

I am now an Independent who support HRC, and even though I would like to see a dream ticket, either way, Obama would have more to gain if he was second on the ticket. It would make no sense in the universe for her to take the second spot, even though she would still be younger than McCain if she were to win the Presidency then.

If I might say something to that Patsi,

Since Obama is looking for unity and team players, I could see a VEEP position playing key on certain issues like Gore did.

So an Obama/somebody position could be a thrilling opportunity for some.

it is a bit of a specious argument. we could go on...Bill as Lynne Cheney? He could bring to life the obscene novels she has written. ok, I'll stop and apologize in advance for perpetuating this line of thinking.

giggling @ Coleen! lollolol..Ok laughing!

I am seeing a smattering of Repubs signing up and actually volunteering for HRC. Mostly females. Could this be a small trend?

Actually, I was just poking of a bit of fun at Craig for the Cheney idea....but I forgot that it's not okay to even joke when it comes to the Cult of the Second Coming.

Colleen -- Bill as Lynn and the porn novels...ROFL!

One more shameless plug....

If you are interested in whats going on in Georgia, you can find it here...
http://theaginghipster.blogspot.com/2008/02/georgia-presidential-primary-3-days.html

Hope all my C-listers are well, and i will be trolling in all day and night today and tomorrow.

Hipster

Patsi,

You are not so nice when you think you are funny. The so called "Cult of the Second Coming" is at least trying to be fair and recognise the strengths and the integrity of the other candidate.........

Jamie,
I think Coulter is just messing with you head. Would any dem take her endorsement of Hillary seriously?

Actually I think her point is her virulent hatred of McCain.
Either that perhaps she perceives another Clinton in the WH would be good for her career.

dnd

That's what I meant by how much weight a Coulter endorsement would have. I'll stick with Hillary and anyone else with a vote (even Coulter) can vote for her with me.

Now Mahar going for Obama is another matter. Like I said before. How good could his judgement be if he dated Coulter?

Thank you to everyone who supplied names of Blues musicians and singers. I knew you were the right source.

You all can stop now. With that much material I'll be writing and hunting for a long time tomorrow.

Okay, as I said....take all the Hillary shots you want. Call Bill Clinton (one of the best presidents this country has had in recent decades) a used car salesman. Refer to Hillary supporters as Clintonistas and feminazis...that's okay because after all, women are used to that sort of stuff. We're mainly good for recipes.

Orange Slice Bread: Cream 2 sticks oleo and 2 cups sugar. Add 4 eggs, one at a time. Beat. Add 1 cup buttermilk. Stir 1 teaspoon baking soda to an additional 1/2 cup buttermilk, and add. Stir in 1/4 teaspoon salt and 4 cups flour. Add 1 pound chopped dates, 1 pound orange slice candy cut into four pieces each, and 2 cups chopped walnuts. Divide into 4-5 small loaf pans. Bake at 275-degrees for 45 minutes to an hour.

Lady Eagle

Months ago I told a Republican friend that if Hillary were the Democratic candidate, a large percentage of Republican women would vote for her. They might have to go home and lie through their teeth to hubby just for peace and quiet, but they would vote for her.

Craig...good morning

I finally get it. Your last paragraph got through to me.

And Brain in NYC...Bill Maher is not funny since the writers strike and I am sure he has lost a ton of money with the strike and is smoking shwag not chronie. And quit frankly, I am tired of comedians being political pundits. Dennis Miller is a stooge. Bill Maher is not funny. Roseanne got killed when she sang the Star Spangled Banner...I mean why "hire" a comedian to do a serious job and then expect serious work?

Patis,
And I never said he was a used car salesman. I was actually trying to express that I was tickled by what he said. The "Cult of the Second Coming" can appreciate good people and fun Political Theater with out getting our panties in a twist.

Someday, I hope the real Patsi will come back....

Lady Eagle: I am seeing a smattering of Repubs signing up and actually volunteering for HRC. Mostly females. Could this be a small trend?
===
That's great. There may be a lot of recalibrating party identification going on. How uninspiring to have to choose from the GOP field. (Still retain nostalgic fondness for McCain, but the 2000 straight talker. The intervening 8 years have been as hard on him as on anyone else suffering through the Bush administration.)

Is it the right thing to do now is endorse Obama. This guy is getting a free ride. He does not have a clue on what's going to come at him. Just wait until Hannity and crew start hammering at him. Hillary is used to this crap and is still standing. She has not been given a break. He reminds me of the movie The Candidate, starring Robert Redford. Became a good canidate, won the election, and at the end of the movie he went into a private room with his aids and asked what do I do now. In 4 or 8 years he will be so much better. Good VP choice, can learn from Hillary, Bill, and Teddy.

Jamie, I even lived with a Republican for a decade, what was I thinking?, but it did not influence my politics or the way I voted. Let's just call my wayward period comparable to Bill Maher's Ann Coulter escapade, and let sleeping dogs lie. Luckily our (mine and Bill's) political judgement makes more sense than our choice of temporary mates.

Sheila

Thanks for the link...BO is a Leo. Now I understand "why" we clash.

Patsi: idiot question, but what is orange slice candy? Is it those sugared slices you find, often also in lemon and lime? Can you substitute anything for it?

Sounds like a lot of sugar, but maybe the bread is so good one does not mind....

Friends: to those who point out how much grief Hillary has already taken from the press and GOP and Clinton-haters, and therefore she's ready to be nominee, I say

Elect a president, not a pinata.

Craig, if I buy your book, how can you sign it? Let me know the way to do this. It should be a blog perk.

Dog

When it comes to references to children's toys, I think we were thinking more of one of those "bounce back" clowns. No matter how hard you hit them, they come back and smack you.

"Someday, I hope the real Patsi will come back...."

This is the real Patsi. Very often posters here seem to operate like Republicans. Their idea of getting along is for people who think differently to bend over. That has never been the real me, the one who actually worked in the trenches for civil and women's rights and has never had any hesitation about saying what I think. Even -- Oh MY God -- if it is not politically correct .

Well, While I can really appreciate your passion and tenacity Patsi,

Hatred doesn't become you or yor candidate. I didn't deserve what you served up this morning and I also won't condone it with silence.

Attacking and slamming some one for a perceived afront is just plain silly. Besides being counter productive for your candidate.

Good luck to you. I hope in the future you will respect my position and when I post, you will step back and read what I am really saying, not what you want to come from my mouth.

When Coulter did the "I'd campaign for Hillary if McCain gets the nomination" bit.......the way I see it from her perspective she kilt two birds with one stone.....

Say anything to me you please, Sheila...I prefer direct.

Dog-- yes those are the orange sugar candies and that bread is VERY sweet. Some here in the South make it at Christmas as a substitute for regular fruit cake.

sturgeone

Good point...either way she still gets to keep her job and sell books.

......channeling.........

Senator Clinton would not accept the vp nor would Obama. How does Clinton help Obama he has made her a villian to the his supporters. And I think she doesn't think so much of him either. I rather doubt the gooper talkinging points mailer from him arracking her healthcare plane has done much to make things better,

Any Democratic that wins will become the pinata for the press. If you think the media love affair is going to continue past the primary --come over here, see that bridge..it's for sale cheap.

I was amused. Because its so southern and its so classic "Used Car Salesman" like. CUTE!

Posted by: Sheila | February 2, 2008 8:08 AM

Sheila, Patsi can fight her on fight but this is what was typed by you I assume. How is someone supposed to take that?

yo soy Horsedooty!

By the way they made Scarborough's dig at McCain into an adverstisement "No jobs more War"

It would be great if that cost McCain the nominaton.,
I am sure the Morning Load will be so proud.

I guess the right wingers are taking no chances. I got an email this morning calling Hillary a Bull Dyke, and then heard an old woman on C-Span saying that Obama won't salute the flag.

"I rather doubt the gooper talkinging points mailer from him attacking her healthcare plane "

Hasn't Edwards come out and defended the Clinton healthcare plan as most similar to his and said the Obama plan wouldn't work?

Oh, a followup on that last post...here is what makes me nuts about C-Span. The host did NOT correct the woman. She said she'd been thinking about voting for Obama until she heard he wouldn't salute the flag. The host simply asked: "And would that make a difference in your supporting him?"

Jesus. I understand that the hosts on c-span try to stay out of the conversation....but that was just ridiculous.

Thank you Horse,

If it looked like I was slamming, I was not. it may have been a case where I needed to explain in a larger more descriptive way......but I see the ways inwhich Bill Clinton speaks endearing....charming still. That is all.....

Still, I won't take that type of ripping apart from anyone here when it is just plain perceived.

There are many that feel free to speak about Obama as the enemy here on this blog I have called my home for a long time.

Doesn't it speak to all of you who do this, that one perceived statement makes me an enemy? That you are not going to have me enlighten you? After I have proven myself time and again to be trustworthy. That I am a friend?

There are so many on this Blog that think Obama the enemy.....that anything out of my mouth or anyone else's the enemy....

Just amazing. Thank you Horse for asking and letting me say something.

Patsi,

All the braindead crazies are coming out of the woodwork. If you can believe some of the crud the far right dreams up, you really shouldn't be allowed to exist without a guardian.

Edwards healthcare advisor and he was very upset.

"Brad Blakeman, a former Bush White House aide who now runs Freedom's Watch, a political committee funded by major Republican donors that has aired several pro-war commercials, told Newsmax he was aware of the Wright connection.

"If your spiritual adviser makes outrageous statements, it's incumbent on you as a leader to denounce those statements," he said. "Silence is an admission that you agree with what your spiritual adviser pronounces."

Newsmax concluded that "if Obama is his party's nominee, his Republican opponent will rightly be able to make use of Rev. Wright and his radical teachings as effectively as supporters of George H.W. Bush used Willie Horton's furlough to help Bush win the presidency." In other words, be prepared for the attack ads to be aired by Freedom's Watch and other shadowy, well-funded organizations, just like the Horton ads put up by an earlier "independent committee" in 1988."
http://www.creators.com/opinion/joe-conason/the-coming-attack-on-barack.html

according to article there are rightwing sites already testing the attacks on Obama.

Patsi,

Just make sure you forward that e-mail, since i am sure somewhere at the bottom it either says if you dont "you dont love Christ or you support terror" or maybe it will say both

Hip

Patsi, et all.
Be careful before you judge the alleged sender of emails and other political stuff.
I would not put anything past anyone to stir up an extreme negative on their own to create a shinning white willie on a horse to save the day.

Ping

According to the Conason article the muslim and the lesbian smears both originated on rightwing sites.

Again, I am ignorant, but will NP still be SOH in '10? And if so, imagine two women behind BO at the State of the Union address. Or better yet, NP and BO sitting there?

Either way HRC/BO or BO/HRC...most likely won't happen. Too bad, even Judge Judy has Baliff Burt.

The Smirking Chimp has an annual WTF? list

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/node/11841

Ping Pong,

You and some others I know are proof there are good folks of all beliefs.

The creators of those e-mails just remind of why i am mostly a blue stater at heart.

Hipster

If Obama is having problems with the minor Clinton attacks, how and the world is he going to be able to handle shadowy, well-funded organizations attacks. I am not so sure he is up to it. When you have a person like Shawn Hannity getting on the air and asking his listeners help him find all the dirt they can. He did that with Kerry and is all primed and ready for Obama. He already is going after McCain, along with his follow right wing radio hosts. There is not much left for them to do with Hillary. They been beating her for years and she's still standing.

Blonde wino -- signing my book as blog perk niftuy idea. Email your snail mail adress and preferred message and/or salutation, etc., to cqtrailmix@verizon.net

I'll be happy to send a signed faceplate that is easily pasted into the book

Hobbling to airport now for journey back to the beltway. Got cast off yesterday but now in this bulky boot thing and on crutches one more week.

"If Obama is having problems with the minor Clinton attacks, how and the world is he going to be able to handle shadowy, well-funded organizations attacks"

Maybe the same way he handled them in South Carolina.

Craig,

Congratulations! In 3 days time on threads you have been accused of being a Clinton mouthpiece and an Obama mouthpiece. Quite an accomplishment.

Hipster

Maybe the same way he handled them in South Carolina

in response I have to post my Pat Buchanan joke

"
Pat Buchanan is up in Concord New Hampshire on a stage getting ready to speak to his supporters. Suddenly a group breaks into a chant, disrupting the proceedings.

They shout, "He's a racist! He's a racist."

And those were his supporters:

safe trip to the Fearless leader.

Craig, good luck to you if you try to use the washington metro on crutches during rush hour. The elevators are in lousy places and people will knock you over. I hurt my knee and it was awful using crutches on that metro. I gave up and now I am driving to work, at the same time I am helping out GW with his oil profits.

what attacks in SC

I believe much of Obama's support is soft. If he is the nominee, just wait until the Repub attack/smear machine starts defining him. The "softies" will drop off fast. This is a "cult of personality". One young person was asked why he supported Obama. The reply, "Because he is THE MAN". Again, the reporter asked why, "Because he is THE MAN". How many of Obama's young/new voters even know what state he represents?

Okay , this is off topic. Last night at work I was handed a sheet of paper at break. It was a print out of an article that was in the Detroit News yesterday. I looked at the article's headline and I laughed outloud. This is what the article was:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008802010478

I'll explain my feelings later.

Craig,

Next time you are on with Keith, you will need to question him about the following:

KEITH OLBERMANN
MSNBC TV host Giants, 27-21. Not a lot of people noticed that by December, Eli Manning had already made the first hurdle of greatness: eight fourth-quarter comeback wins in his first four seasons. First you figure out how to reverse a disaster-in-progress. Then you learn how to prevent a disaster. He has just learned.
BILL O'REILLY
FOX TV host Giants, 31-30. Destiny.

He and Billo are both hot for the loser...are they friends now? lol

"Just make sure you forward that e-mail, since i am sure somewhere at the bottom it either says if you dont "you dont love Christ or you support terror" or maybe it will say both"

Ha...Hip, I'm not sure which emails I hate more...the political ones or the ones saying, "I'm sending you ten angels because you are my friend. And if you don't send this to ten more people you don't love God and will have bad luck."

Ping -- I know exactly where these emails are going from. The same crowd that sent me crap during Clinton's Monica days, and the same ones who started sending me Obama smears right after he was elected to the Senate.

a) Clinton will be the nom.

b) For the sake of playing "what if..., " it seems that a more likely choice for Obama's VP would be Russ Feingold.

c) The real "what if..."question becomes, who would Hill'ry choose for veep? Maybe Biden?

d) We would not be having this blogversation if Edwards had been at the top of the ticket instead Kerrey the last time. We would be looking at a 2nd term for Edwards.

"I believe much of Obama's support is soft."

What is the basis for that belief? Just a feeling or a hunch?

If someone says I like Obama because he is THE MAN! In what way is this different than the tedious "Hillary is a fighter" soup that has been peddled here endlessly (literally at times every 10 minutes)?

Isnt that just more straw man stuff? You put words in someone's mouth and then knock down a pretend argument?

I like Bush because he is strong.
I like Edwards because he is for the worker.
I like Huckabee because he shares my values.
I like McCain because he is a straight talker.

You can plug this formula into any candidate's name and do the same post.

So, when I see this kind of thing, I'm thinking, gee, that person's candidate sounds hollow.

As far as Senator Obama's home state, which one is your candidate from?

Illinois? Arkansas? New York?

See, it works any way you like. Many old c-listers here are for Clinton and have some intelligent things to say. I think I will lend an ear to them. At least when Fry does his thing he tries to back up what he says.

Hipster

-Hip

About a VP choice. I think Obama would help Hillary to an extent, but Hillary would not help Obama. The Hillary supporters will support the Dem ticket no matter what. Obama's Republican crossovers and indies would not stick around. I'd like to see Hillary pick Wes Clark, maybe...

The young will always support the new kid on the block. They have all these fresh ideas, but will they work. Look what happened 4 years ago with Howard Dean. He got them all fired up. I am glad the young are getting involved. More power to them. Why are not out on the streets protesting the war. They want change well demand now, Bush is still in command for 11 months. They jumped on his war vote and he is using it to his advantage but what about the rest of his votes. What other things are good and bad about him. The press is riding the exciting wave, but why are not digging into his past. I don't want dirt, I want the truth. He's getting better by the day, but I want to know more about him. We know all about Hillary.

VaDa

I think the idea if getting out in the streets doesnt appeal to kids because they think it is futile. You know there were a number of protests early on but they didnt catch.

I think the Dean people did hang around to a large extent.

Maybe if Obama doesnt go all the way they can stick around for later times.

Thanks
Hipster

"I believe much of Obama's support is soft."

Ditto what Hip said. Plus, I think Obama's support is VERY real. When I say that, I mean real for him, not specifically for the Democratic party. Obama's supporters believe in HIM personally, and the change they think he will bring. That's pretty damn real.

The difference, I believe, is that Hillary supporters tend to be very pragmatic, and think change can't happen in one fell swoop. It doesn't mean they are right, it's just the way I think they see politics.

I agree the protests did not catch on but if they see how much voice they really have. Look what they are doing just with Obama alone. Look what was going on outside before the last debate.

The first week I was in DC, I found out the hard way why the women wear tennis shoes. My high heel got caught in a groove and I fell to the bottom with the escalater tearing up my shins before they got the stairs stopped.

I got carted out in an ambulance. It all healed up well nothing broken, just deep abrasions.

Be careful with that cane!!!

Read the history books. There was an idea floating for Ford as VP to "share" the Presidency. Criag's mistake was simply forgetting how the media spins anyting into "let;s hate Hillary" and perhaps Shelia is being a bit sensitive.

Many people in Mass actually thinkl the "Obama is a muslim email" might be coming from Obama supporters who want people to think it is the evil Hillary at work.

And a note for Shelia. Why would Hillary's supporters be so angry these days.? Sour grapes? Well, imagine fellow Democrats pointing out obvious contradictions in policiy statements, an inconsistent record touted as courageous, the blatant first strikes against Hillary's character escalating into racist, ripping down the Clinton administration and then being told, "Obama is Obama" and that answering the questions asked is not necessary?

"Obama is Obama"? I did not see Jesus seated next to Hillary the other night. The reason why Obama is doing as well as he is is that polls indicate America is more ready for a man than a woman in the oval office. Even if that man is black, yellow or red I suspect. So far, this is the unspoken reality; that glass cielings are stronger than the doors of segregation. If it is normal that blacks should vote for the one they most identify with, fine. I hope women do the same. Hillary does quite well debating Obama without Bill by her side. Unfortunately, to defeat Hillary, the Obama camp had to tear down much of the Clinton Era and I am glad that Obama was forced to make purty in front of the Holywood crowd. Perhaps he is a believer now....cause ..well, after all, "Bill is Bill", warts, blow jobs, pardons and all.

And if you think the record of achievement, a factual history of reaching out and getting the hard work done had nothing to do with it, then you MUST be drinking that Kool Aid.

Obama brought up Hillary's sanction vote and she did everything she could from saying, "You didn't even vote and let me remind you what you told a largely Jewish audience at AIPAC not too long ago". For her to go at Obama in these matters risks reminding an anti-war crowd she is more of a hawk, pro-Israel and a despot hater.

Guess nobody has told the Democrats Iran declared last week that they don't want to talk to even a Democratic President. And Obama certainly doesn't want to hear from Lynch, the UN, France, Pollack, Murtha or any one else that the surge provided the security that has lead to political progress and Iraqi soldiers standing up as AQ gets their ass kicked. What kind of judgement would have started reducing troops almost a year ago, set a time table in the idea that this would force Iraqis to make nice?

The spin that Obama could debate McCain best with his record is HILLarious. That is just what Obama wants believers to believe.

So Craig, you might want to remember the Democrats have become quite religious and messing with their articles of faith a dangerous act of honesty.

One of the things that concerns me about Obama is that he simply has never faced any reall opposition either in state offices or for the Senate. The oratory is wonderful, but everything he says is rather short on details.

I believe Patsi is right that Clinton's supporters tend to take a much more pragmatic view of politics. We believe she will bring definite change but she will do it in a way that involves the more moderate members of the other side of the aisle and building coalitions.

I would dearly love to see him as her VP since anyone else she asks simply wouldn't have the "star power" that the two of them would take to the election.

Patsi
The difference, I believe, is that Hillary supporters tend to be very pragmatic, and think change can't happen in one fell swoop. It doesn't mean they are right, it's just the way I think they see politics.

That's because of life experiences that the young have not had to experience yet. So when talking about HIllary's "experience" it goes well beyond her political experience. Life is a great teacher.

Well, VAD, they pulled in 250,000 in NY at the Republican convention and there were over 1 million world wide at one point in a single event once. I dont think it has the same effect it had the 60's.

I've got some buddies on the anti-war GOP side of things (they are Ron Paul supporters) who are feeling really helpless right now and don't know what to do. They see McCain making statements like "we could stay in Iraq for 100 years and that would be fine with me as long as the troops were safe." What he is saying is that the casualties are not good but if we can get them then keeping an occupying force in Iraq for 100 years is fine.

So what they see is this guy is just going to cruise in there with unabashed nation building.

They just feel powerless I think.

Some of the 20somethings I know aren't political at all. They dont understand or know much about these red and blue teams we have divided ourselves in to. SOME (but not all) Clinton supporters who post on here like to portray Obama as naive and stupid (or lucky). Don't kid yourselves. He knows exactly what he is doing when drawing younger voters into the mix, hence the "looking forward" rhetoric.

Just my respectful 2 cents

Hip

No matter who the candidate is, remember Bush still has 11 months to go. We need action now!

"One of the things that concerns me about Obama is that he simply has never faced any reall opposition either in state offices or for the Senate."

Thats a very real area of concern. As I recall he talked some about that in "Audacity."

Hip

Well gang I have to get out of here and do some work. Will see you all some more this weekend.

Get away from those screens some and get outside. Its clear, blue and cold here in the Georgia mtns.

VAda- good to "meet you. " see you

Hip

Youth is wasted on the young.

I hope they do become active and involved, but in reality I think they will "vote" and go back to living their day to day lives. No matter who is elected. they'll go back to doing what they want to do, not spending their extra time working on social justice issues, etc. or changing the country.

"a Wii in every household"

redst3---Looks like I hit a nerve! Deep down, do you believe it to be true? Dreams are important. Did not post my comments out of malice.

Sheila,

for the record as I have not announced one way or the other my primary pick is Obama to date. however, if he does not come out of the primery as the Dem nominee I will vote for Sen Clinton without hesitation. We should be bashing the Repgs and not the Dems in My Opinion. Just saying....

yo soy Horsedooty!

Hip brought up a very interesting point: the Ron Paul people. These are REALLY serious. I wonder where they put that frustration....I STILL see almost no yard signs in Nashville except for Ron Paul.

I think Hillary picks someone like Brendesen to clinch the South. Gore gave her a bad taste and Biden isn't known for keeping his foot out of his mouth.

Obama is still the likely pick because it aces his chance the next time around. Still, I don't think Hillary wants Obama over her shoulder either. Bob Kerry might work, but then that is a NY ticket.

She might as well give Bill the VP spot rather than a SCOTUS nod. Under a Hillary administration would we see justice Edwards or justice Biden? I say make Posner the att gen, but then all these considerations run the risk of Lefties painting Hillary the centrist. In this climate, that is a death wish.

As Craig pointed out, the most ruthless often become President. Just ask McCain or Dukakis.

Gaints need a five man rush, Eli being on target and effective bumping of NE receivers. They also can't get folled by the blitz game. Of course they could win and I pick them 30 to 27, but this is wishing. The record, coaching and depth have to go to NE. Patriots are the immovable force for good reason and my bias will never devolve into rants of evil empire...LOL They are a beautiful team to watch and deserve the credit they get. NY woke up after beating the Bears. Perhaps Obama never forgave Hillary. Now I bet he rooting for NE which actually, would be quite consistent of him. It goes with Ted and Kerry endorsing him. To bad those two never took anything from Belechick's playbook. Hell, maybe Barady will endosre Obama, or better yet, run one day himself on his record as a QB.

I have 2 first times voters- both will be 18 in Nov. One favors Ron Paul and the other favors Hillary Clinton. One is male one is female. One lives in NYC in college and one at home. One has done a lot of reading and watched some debates, and one has not.

there has been mention of the pragmatism of the HRC supporters, but I find some of those supporters romanticizing the Clinton years in the WH as the Kennedy supporters are being accused of doing the same with the "Camelot" years. JFK was a hawk, paranoid, hated Cuba, etc. We need to fill our hindsight with more clarity, rather than just recalling the positives. The Clinton years were a boon for msome but did further divide the economic classes. Welfare Reform was an abysmal failure. NAFTA is a mess. Don't ask, don't tell, which may have seemed progressive at the time is now passe, and merely amusing. We need to move forward. As I said here the other day, it amazes me that in a country of over 300 million people we allow the same 2 families to occupy the WH over and over and over. We need new ideas, fresh blood. Just move on.

If you haven't seen the McCain commercial, guess what? He will be ready to be Commander In Chief on DAY ONE

All that activity by the candidates on DAY ONE, I hope they save something for DAY TWO. After All,
CHANGES must be made. :-)

Native American lore says---The TRIBE 1st, the FAMILY 2nd, the INDIVIDUAL 3rd. Everybody's welfare is a priority from the beginning.

Why am I a Democrat----because I want to take care of the entire tribe.

I champion the environment. "Man did not weave the web of life---he is merely a strand of it---whatever he does to the web---he does to himself". Chief Seattle 1854. It is crazy not to take care of our life source-our environment. If it takes some sacrifice to do so---than I am willing to do so.

I want health care for EVERYONE in my tribe. No one should be turned away and allowed to suffer or die because of lack of money.

I want education for all of my tribe. Just because one may not have a child in the education system---does not mean one stops caring about education for those who are and will need to be educated. Those youngsters will be our future.

I believe in a woman's right to choose. No one has any business telling me that I must bring a child into a world that I am not emotionally ready to or financially able to raise. No one has the right to mandate I keep a child in undesireable circumstances or adopt a child out as a solution. If you are going to MAKE me give birth to a child---then I expect you to send me a BIG BIG CHECK that covers the cost and services of raising a child you MADE ME give birth to.

I am a Democrat---and I think it is utterly stupid to destroy and throw away embryonic stem cells , but have the potential to save the lives of all of those in my tribe.

I am a Democrat---I want the people of 3rd world countries to receive birth control---not just to be taught abstinence---and then to die of AIDS with little medical care. That's deplorable.

I am a Democrat that believes church and state do not mix. I don't want your religious interpretations dictating what is right for me.

I am a Democrat----I want this WAR to end . I would rather wisely spend my tax dollars on social programs than to spend them on war. If that is what some call more government than so be it.

So if that makes me a member of the "Mommy" party---so be it.

Now this is interesting: former Fed Chief Paul Volcker has come out for Obama.

Those of you who've been here for a while know I think Volcker was the guy responsible for ending nasty inflation of the '70s and laid the foundation for the prosperity of the '80s and '90s.

Patsi,
The majority of the yard signs I see here are for Ron Paul too.
I think you're right that his supporters will have an impact.

Bill and Hillary will be with Bill Richardson hanging out for the Super Bowl. Wonder what they are going to talk about over the guacamole & Chips?

Posted by: dnd | February 2, 2008 11:32 AM

we talked about this the other day and wished you were here some folks had never heard of him and didn't know the history. Do you think you could post about it. I pointed out he had the guts to raise the interest rates to 18% (so we could all go back to visiting Europe) He was demonized by Raygun and his followers...the Volcker Recession.

"redst3---Looks like I hit a nerve!"

-GORDO

No you didnt. I responded. Thats all. I know well and good where you are coming from. There's no malice in my response either.

-Hipster

Does it really mater who they are going to watch the game with. I would have no problem if they watched the game with McCain. They can be friends. Just like a football game during the game it's a different story. Why make a big deal out of who is watching the game with who. No one cares who we watch the game with.

For all of you who think the media is irrelevant, it looks like they eliminated the strongest Democratic contender.

.http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/02/big-media-fluffs-mccain-stuffed-edwards/#comments

Daryl will you come watch the game with me?

:-)

Hip

be glad to

hip, did you pick a candidate yet

I think Edwards will stay out or endorse Senator Clinton.

KGC,
Arthur Burns' economic model was a complete failure. Volcker's monetary policies realized that it'd take some pain to get out of the inflationary spiral. Carter stuck with Volcker, knowing the economy wasn't going to recover in his first term. It was a case of doing what's right for the country and not what's best for political ambition. Kinda like when Ford pardoned Nixon.

When Reagan kept him on as Fed Chief, Volcker told him the first two years would be bloody, but things would get better after that. To Reagan's credit, he stuck with him. And sure enough, after '82 things started getting better. Best decision Reagan ever made.

Vadaryl

It was just a comment. She really needs the Hispanic vote in California and all across the south west, and he has been mentioned several times as a potential VP though he says he's happy being a governor. Just seemed like an interesting place to be for chatting.

Yes, I have already voted for Obama..."because he is THE MAN"

I would watch the game with you though, unless you were in the Taliban or something.

Hipster

Jamie, I know yours was just a comment, but it is gretting some press coverage.

I dont know where Renee is or is going to be, but she will be pulling for the Patriots. I know that. Football and politics, two of my favorite things....

-Hipster

oh no.. more Noron

go pats!

I am not in the Taliban. What does "THE MAN" mean.

Hate to hit and run, but I'm doing it again.

Just a quick comment on Colleen's statement regarding the same two families over and over. This is one of Chris Matthews themes, but it's a specious argument. First of all, Hillary is not Bill, and she's probably a lot less like her husband than W is like his father. After all there are no inherited traits.

Your argument for new ideas has merit, but to think Hillary is incapable of them would be a mistake.

I don't have any strong preference between Hillary and Obama, but the least of my concerns would be the Bush-Clinton-Bush progression. No matter how Mr. Matthews frames it, ANY Democrat moving into the White House after this administration EQUALS CHANGE.

I am a Steeler fan, so I really don't care who wins, but after the Steelers had that run a few years ago when Big Ben first started I would like to see another team lose and have their season go down the drain

Bill Richardson headed for the senate in the Pete's seat. He is almost termed out as gov.

After all it takes a Clinton to clean up after a Bush :)

Va-

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/02/clinton-as-cheney.html#comment-25423

and

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/02/clinton-as-cheney.html#comment-25431

will explain "the man" comment.

Gotta run gang. Time for a nice nap with Wifey.

GO GIANTS!!!!

Hipster

Va Daryl

Your a Steelers fan? You HAVE to be kidding me. Stick around C-List.

I'm a very big Steelers fan. Check out my home page and you should see for yourself:

Http://theaginghipster.blogspot.com

The reason Matthews keeps pushing that "same two families line" is that he simply can't conceive of a woman as being something other than an extension of her nearest male relative or husband.

A woman as an individual capable of loving and taking in input from men while making her own wise decisions is simply a foreign concept to Tweety.

Sadly, it is a foreign concept to millions of men.

Sorry...domestic chores and I had to make a wine run and buy Moody Blues tickets online.

Craig...will email you...you are so awesome.

good day peeps.
First of all I think all this "dream ticket" talk is just crap. That being said I have trouble finding a reason for Obama asking Hillary to be on his ticket. A lot of Obama's support is made of non-traditional Democrats who could end up staying home if Obama is not part of the ticket. Hillary's support is made up of more traditional Democrats who will vote the nominee no matter it's Clinton or Obama. From my point of view Hillary has cause to ask Obama to be her VP, Obama doesn't have cause to ask Hillary.

"I think Hillary picks someone like Brendesen"

As a Tennessean, I hope she doesn't pick Phil Bredesan. He's wooden, and an unexciting campaigner. Plus, he's a Republican under the skin. I'm not even sure he'd pull Tennessee for her.

I personally believe an Obama/Clinton ticket would be better as a winner than the other way around. That way you could get the Obamacans, such as President Eisenhower's daughter, involved

http://www.newsweek.com/id/107476

As a Hillary supporter you are right. She should run the government, he should sit and look pretty. He will get the benefit of her experience and maybe get a second term. Obama/Axelrod created a product that goes up to the day when they win the White House, but they don't know what to do next and how to do it. They don't care, they want to win by any means necessary. The mob, will want to have their idol look good. It takes a lot of work to keep the story going. No time for running the government. Our elected inspirer will be busy transcending. This leaves no time for reading papers or cleaning up programs.

I think you mean Eisenhower's granddaughter. He didn't have any daughters.

Brain in NYC

I agree with you and I think that she should have made that clear in the debate by stating Yes, BO would be a great VP. I don't think BO will get the nomination -- look at Texas polls-- and so, the dream team idea is not crap if it is HRC/BO.

Good article there Karolenna, very much goes to Obama's remark about Reagan and type of coalition that Barak is trying to put together.

Susan Eisenhower is President of the Eisenhower Group, Inc, which provides strategic counsel on political, business and public affairs projects. Ms. Eisenhower has consulted for major companies doing business overseas such as IBM, American Express, Diebold Corporation and Loral Space Systems.

BR is my governor and he should run for the seat vacated by Domenici...who really got messed-up in the AG Gonzo scandal along with Heather Wilson (another Bill Maher fav)...real scumbags.

Okay Corey...Plastech (plastic, the fabric of our lives)...what is so funny?

I don't understand why Bill R. hasn't declared for the Senate yet. It seems an easy call for him from my point of view. I do think the senate seat has a lot to do with why Richardson hasn't endorsed. He's a diplomat and wants to be on everyone's good side.

I don't understand why Bill R. hasn't declared for the Senate

because he just stopped running for pres. and needs to build up a little capital before another foray.

BTW as I've said in the past, if Obama gets the nom. and I were him, I'd make Hillary Sect. of Defense. Nice slice of history there for Hillary too, first female Sect. of Def. and I think she'd do an amazingly good job at it too.

Yes, I meant granddaughter. I try to catch up a little when I come down to lower level to check laundry. Would love to stay on longer but just don't the time.

Denish our Lt. Gov had endorsed HRC. My sister keeps sending emails to BR to endorse HRC...it is driving her crazy. I really have no idea 'what' BR is waiting for...maybe he knows something we do not know. And I know his wife, Barbara wants to be in DC.

"BTW as I've said in the past, if Obama gets the nom. and I were him, I'd make Hillary Sect. of Defense. Nice slice of history there for Hillary too, first female Sect. of Def. and I think she'd do an amazingly good job at it too.

Posted by: Brian In NYC | February 2, 2008 12:57 PM"

If Obama is about new politics he should make Kucininch the Secy of Defense.

I thought everyone's objection to Clinton was her Hawkish positions.

Democrats won gains in 2006 based on blue dogs. They put the stefprd Sebilious out there to respond to the SUTU. Bredensen would carry Tenn, Gore did not. I note the remark to this suggestion implies most DLCer's are Republicans. Maybe the Repuublicans should have bribed Ford Jr. to run for them...LOL. The Republicans may likely nominate a person who challenged many Conservative ideas. Democrats eat those who challenge their articles of faith. When Obama picks up the supportsof the Right and Left who aren't model centrists or moderates, his camp claims he is a coalition builder. Yes, the colaition of the more extreme. When Hillary gets the nod from more centered leaders, she is vilified as a Republican. I guess Rove moved the Democratic 50 yard line to their twenty yard line. The problem is that national polling does not agree. Shelia is quite happy to elect a sales man. The problem is that he can sell his stuff to Democrats, but the nation is not as faithful a following. The continued refusal of addressing policy problems, contradictory declarations, personal attacks and questionable record, is rather obvious, yes? While Obama touts his immigration stand, McCain will present the factual record of Obama's voting. McCain will quote Obama's speech to AIPAC, his campaign speeches in 2004, and compare such triangulation with JFK and Reagan. Not only has Obama not held a single meeting of the Senate Sub Committee on Foreign Relations in Eastern Europe and NATO, he hasn't even met with European leaders in Europe as JFK did. Perhaps talking with our allies is a pre-condition to talking to our enemies. And what if our allies agree with Hillary as most of Europe favors a Clinton. Why? These OZ like sales pitches from behind the curtain of vetting, is exactly how Obama plans to run to nomination. McCain is going to use independent sources to PROVE increased security has lead to SOME real progress in Iraq and I suppose he will read the 2003 offer from Iran and ask Obama as President whether he would have accepted Iranian conditions. You can read their absurd offer by doing a Google. He will ask Obama at what point did the Iranians stop their nuclear weapon program and whether enrcichment is considered part of that program. Can Obama identifiy all the dormant nuclear weapon program facilities? Obama has nothing on McCan over torture or experiance and McCain will bring up courruption charges on Obama as ask Americans to decide if Obama's denials are plausible. He will tout Judical Watch List. McCain will point to JFK and Reagan on the tax issue and sport his bipartisan effort and opposition to Bush mistakes as why he is the compromiser and uniter, not that everyone is buying it. Then McCain will list all who endorsed Obama and not the more center Hillary. He will ask all of America, "Who is likely to unite this country, one who garners the greatest support from thier most extreme base, or one who has reached out and atcually beat back the base to wn their nomination?" Only Hillary can show such Independence and after all, that was what JFK was about. He followed his advosirs into the Bay of Pigs and then remembered his head and steered center. What, is McCain going to say another Clinton is worse than having had two Bushes? Of course Hillary could use her mess joke again.

Perhaps Democrats should remember their heads too and realize it is easy to play to the heart while avoiding tough questions. Their are many unemployed writers who can write great oratory. It is much harder stay true to a life-long ideology to be bipartisan, tough on national security, strong on the economy and have real plans that actually get passed, elevating key Liberal goals like Healthcare, equal opportunity, education, energy independence, immigration reform, while finally showing half of America a woman can lead, can unite and accomplish what so many women do every day in shaping today's children into future responsible and compassionate adults. I suspect Obama's mother did exactly that. She was the rock despite her family line going back to slavery. The game of death by association here is a false one, though who can ignore tha endorsements coming to Obama from the Left and Right in their effort to see an ideologue sales man win, rather than a centrist woman who has shown strength under fire, principle, bipartianship and a rather long resume to back it up?

Oh I forget, "Obama is Obama". Geees people, I thought such faith would have died with the Bush adminisitration.

"A woman as an individual capable of loving and taking in input from men while making her own wise decisions is simply a foreign concept to Tweety."

Jamie..... unfortunately.... I think it is also a foreign concept for some of the women posters on this blog....

Hip.... I've been lurking a lot lately..... too much repeating of the same stuff over and over again bores the crap out of me..... I LOVE to learn..... boredom is my enemy..... not political candidates.... especially on the Dem side....

chickadee...... CLAP! CLAP! great post about why you're a Democrat!

some of you know I worked as an election official for a long time...... can't tell you how many times I've seen the younger generation (even while I was a member) get all excited over a candidate and then just not show up to vote in large numbers in the general election....
hope this time it's different..... but I have to see it before I believe it.....

Craig..... take care and have a good trip back to DC....

GO DEMOCRATS!
GO PATRIOTS!

Please excuse the typos, I type fast and I can't type....LOL I check post quickly to see if the typos destroy any meaning. You guys have the advantage due to much shorter comments....LOL Should that tell me something? Now if TRAIl has spell check, that would be almost as good as an unbiased "fact check".

"She was the rock despite her family line going back to slavery." -----I meant of course, "slave owners".

"Obama's mother did exactly that. She was the rock despite her family line going back to slavery."

Huh?

No, new would be the Department of Peace with SECPEA Kuncinich. Biden for SECDEF might mean the end of missile defense. Note amazing new test of DoD rail guns today. Raptors better replace those grounded f-15s. Also note first death in new griant bomb proof carriers Congress wanted thousands of to be rushed to Iraq. Before dreaming of SECDEF picks, might one vet their policies? Oh, I forget, their charisma should be enough.

Dangerous question for Obama: Will you as Presdient permit Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons or react to any effort on their part to green light thier terror proxies?

Want to bet you know Hillary's answer? The fact you can't be sure of Obama's ought to tell you something about the snake oil.

Senator Obama, will you improve relations with NK if the refuse to come clean about their nuclear programs and profieration? And how does your Republican friend Senator Lugar support your answer?

The general election will be nastier than the primaries.

Tom Petty alert...Sundance channel at this moment is playing Bogdanavich's look (2007) at Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers' history...wonderful tunes and interviews.

If I was going to pick a dream team it would be Clinton-Obama.
This is why. If Clinton won the nomination and became elected president with Obama as veep, we could possibly hold it for 8 yrs. Then Obama could take over for another 8 yrs. It would get him out of the senate and give him first hand knowlege and he would be the natural heir to the presidency. Just imagine what the democratic party could accomplish in 16 yrs. It could be awesome!!!

Brian, that remark should have been clear. Despite her family going back to slave owners, she had Obama and taught him his values. Thus, the power of women to break free the ideology. Hillary was a GoldWater baby, yet broke free to embrace Liberal ideas. I think this behavioral difference is largely over-looked, both the power to bitch and the power to unite. ironic as Hillary is cast as divisive.

Get it now?

truebeliever

Ditto
I believe that is "what" this is all about.