Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

first

I only contribution to the Blog Today.

A Horsey Cartoon!

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/horsey/viewbydate.asp?id=1720

Good morning Alpha,

Have a great day of discussion. I'm back in the sadle here in Palm Beach From Hell. 3 more weeks of cook, cook, cook, cook, cook,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I cook, therefore I eat.

Are we doing anything special for leap day tomorrow?

Most interesting article so far this morning.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080228/lf_nm_life/china_population_dc

Have a good day.

Just a little warning to international travelers:

Rome, 27 Feb. (AKI) - Scratching your genitals in public in Italy can land you in trouble if you're caught.

According to a report on the Italian daily Corriere della Sera, Italy's court of cassation, the nation's highest appeals court, has defined the 'act' as "contrary to public decorum and decency."

The court also said that the practice is considered a crime even if the gesture is done to "repel evil" or bad luck.

It is a superstition among Italian men to "grab" their genitals to ward off bad luck, such as when a hearse passes by or when disaster strikes.

- Good Morning America actually did a piece to see if there's indeed media bias against Clinton. The 'reporter' managed to work in the Tina Fey SNL bitch skit in a way that he basically called her a bitch, and one of the people being interviewed by Sawyer about the bias was Arianna Huffington.......'cause the Huffington Post hasn't shown the least slant in this campaing, and the editor of course never appears on MSNBC as an Obama supporter - it was laughable.

Sean Wilentz on Obama Playing the Race

Wilentz and Tucker Carlson video ( please watch this)

http://www.taylormarsh.com/

Patsi, I guess that ends the chances for Turin and Rome of ever getting a pro baseball team.

Sturgeone: "I cook, therefore I eat."

There was a letter that was mentioned in Rombauer's Joy of Cooking that went something like, "My wife is too old to cook, and I'm too old to do anything else."

Wow! Paul, Nadar & Skinny D can't even get any ink on a blog devoted to them today.

I'll say this about Skinny D -- he really is in a fight. My ex-boss in Cleveland is a good friend of Dennis's and is very worried.

And last thread we talked about "descriptions" of candidates through language....here's from the NY TImes today:

To the Editor:

Re “Begrudging His Bedazzling,” by Maureen Dowd (column, Feb. 27):

Ms. Dowd says Hillary Rodham Clinton is lame for accusing journalists of treating her campaign differently than they treat Barack Obama’s, and applauds the “open-mindedness of the press” in its treatment of Senator Clinton.

Here are the words she uses in association with Senator Clinton: “desperate,” “primal scream,” “clanging,” “churlish,” “discombobulated,” “gloomy,” “flipping,” “begrudging,” “whining,” “experience,” “pea green with envy,” “Sybil,” “cascading,” “dizzying,” “unsettling,” “struggling,” “tartly,” “peevishly,” “pointlessly,” “sarcasm.”

And here are the words she uses for Senator Obama: “golden child,” “sunny,” “consistency,” “bedazzling,” “confidence,” “excitement,” “exceptionally easy in his skin.”

If Ms. Dowd wants to make the point that she doesn’t like Senator Clinton, then she’s made it. If she wants to make the point that the press treats Mrs. Clinton fairly, contrary to what the senator may believe, then this column, alas, has made Senator Clinton’s point.

Donna Lawlor
Brooklyn, Feb. 27, 2008

Dowd

She's there to sell newspapers and for no other reason.

Obama's Nation of Islam Staffers

"Responding to criticism, Barack Obama declared his strong opposition to Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan.

Obama also went on to condemn his Church's award to Farrakhan and his minister's tight relationship with him.

But a former Obama insider says that Obama's sudden aversion to NOI and Farrakhan is belied by the fact that Obama employed and continues to employ several Farrakhan acolytes in high positions on his Illinois and U.S. Senate campaign and office staffs. I have verified that this person--who agreed to talk on the condition of anonymity--held a key position in the Obama campaign. The insider was so close to Senator Obama that they frequently personally discussed and exchanged direct e-mail messages on campaign and policy matters. This person is not connected with the Clintons and is not a disgruntled employee."

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2008/01/obamas_nation_o.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_1968

Posted by: jamie | February 27, 2008 9:12 PM
______

Jamie

I didn't vote, in the '68 election...but I gotta tell ya--this map has truly lifted my spirit today!! Thank you!!

Gordo, do you reckon he'll want to meet with Minister Farrakhan's people, after the convention, to discuss what reject means? It might be done after he meets with Sen McCain's people about accepting public funding.

Patsi,

Everytime Ms. Dowd projectile vomits those words, it is the cumulative product of her years of sucking up to G.W.H. Bush... several times weekly in the NYT of the 80's and early 90's.

It is fair when Ms. Dowd goes all ad hominem to remind her readers of her huge character flaw -- she adores major, famous addicts as lovers.

And even adorates them long after they have left her and gone on to further their habits -- drugs with the overrated Aaron Sorkin and sex with the actually accomplished nice Michael Douglas. (Ever wonder why his best performance of the last ten years was in Wonder Boys?)

There's a lot to be said about someone who pursues addicts as lovers. In fact... there is a most amazing book about her own experience by Marion Winik (I think that's the spelling) which made me cry a lot.

But Dowd never makes me cry. She makes me stop reading her.

I am always in shock over how the paper which was home to the incomparable Russell Baker allows Dowd to believe she is a satirist when all Dowd ever could be was a self-caricature... whether she was a feature writer or a columnist.

Bully for Monica Lewinsky for talking Dowd down to her face in public.

McCaina,

Big John answered my request yesterday:

"And my friends, if we left, they (al-Qaida) wouldn't be establishing a base," McCain said Wednesday. "They'd be taking a country, and I'm not going to allow that to happen, my friends. I will not surrender. I will not surrender to al-Qaida."

The various Shi'a armies and militias (and there are more than the Mahdi and Badr forces -- lots more including the Iranians) are opposed to AQ on a lot more grounds than Sunni-Shi'a bloodlust.

They regard AQ as violating the Koran endlessly.

At the moment there is a good deal of discontent over Al-Sadr's extension of the ceasefire. There are several provocative causes including the clumsy attempts to restore the Baathist party.

Al-Sadr knows this and is playing it adroitly.

McCain is better informed than this. He was better informed than he made himself appear to be during his jolly jaunt through that Baghdad market.

But Bret McCainverick just cheats at cards. That's been his only hand since he got caught with Keating.

This deck is a lot more loaded. And if what he expressed is the policy he's going to follow...

Enjoy the blood, the waste of treasure and the destruction --

And the rise to governing power of Al-Sadr.

I

"home and hearth safe? Plumber did a credible job?"

Plumber was great! A big union guy -- told me some management horror stories.

My home and heart is okay but disturbing news from a nearby country here in TN. A senior boy raped a freshman girl on a school bus and NOT ONE student tried to step in and stop it.

It reminds me of a case some years back when a girl was attacked in an apartment parking lot, and an older woman crippled with MS jumped on the man and started beating him with her metal crutches. She saved the girl....and became a personal hero to me. The reporter asked the woman with MS if, given her age and health, she hadn't been afraid for her own safety. She said no, all she thought about was that a young girl was being assaulted.

dog's eye,

Pinch Sulzberger is a teeny fruitcake. Lots of Times shareholders and many Times workers try to get rid of him -- but they are stuck with him.

There's a lot of crap about him internally at the Times.

There's even more of it among those shareholders.

But they can't get rid of him. And he is why they couldn't get rid of Judy Miller and a lot of other trash until it's too late.

Almost all of Pinch's very personal promotions to the Op-Ed page have caused aerobic eyerolling. (Dowd and Kristol included. He was forced into hiring Bob Herbert. And John Tierney was made to step down to make room for Pinch's childhood pal Billy Boy.)

Pinch has made the Times more of a financial nightmare than it ever should have been... both in the paper itself and in its outside investments and acquisitions.

And everytime he goes out and speaks to a Jewish group, he represents himself as a Jew.... when he is a privately converted Epinchcapalian.

There are plenty of books about how multigenerational businesses implode and fail.

Pinch will be on the cover of the next big 'un.

I have a side bet with a friend who knows Bloomberg: the subject was exactly why, in real terms, Bloomberg would decline to run.

My bet? Once he found out the Secret Service would in no way allow to pilot or even fly on his own helicopters while he was in office, he'd quit.

He loves those things very, very, very dearly and he is a most accomplished pilot.

Maybe we'll find out if that was a factor.

Simple Questions for Senator Obama

"Not complicated. No nuance. Very straightforward. Is there any member of your staff–presidential campaign or senatorial office (including district staff)–who is a member of the Nation of Islam? If no, then never mind. We will condemn Debbie Schlussel for spreading a vicious unfounded rumor. But if the answer is yes, then you have a problem."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/27/simple-questions-for-senator-obama/

"allows Dowd to believe she is a satirist when all Dowd ever could be was a self-caricature..."

No kidding, 9/11!

And dog's eye -- I too shook my head over Bill Kristol.

Forget about higher taxes, partial birth abortions, same sex marriage, class warfare, universal health care, energy, economics, the only thing you need to know about Obama is summed up in this one passage taken from the Feb. 21, 2008 Presidential debate.

'if we think that meeting with the president is a privilege that has to be earned, I think that reinforces the sense that we stand above the rest of the world at this point in time.'

If anyone look 5 minutes you would quickly learn this sort of ideology has been part of Obama's life since he was teenager in high school. Let there be no doubt Obama is suggesting in this one brief sentence that the United States of America is no better than the likes of Iran, North Korea, China, Russia, Cuba, or a number of any other countries where civil rights are nonresistant, where you can be put to death for your sexual preference, where you are picked-up and whisked away for speaking out against the government, where everyone lives equally miserable lives except for those who control the power. We should not forget it is the USA that has helped advance more countries than any other country on the face of the earth, it is the USA using our nation's blood and treasure that has help free more people than any other country in history, it is the USA that has come to the aid of all countries, even our enemies, in times of crisis, it is the USA that people see as the land of freedom and will try to get here at all cost, who is trying to immigrate to Iran, North Korea, Russia etc, it is the USA where an idea and hard work can lead you to untold wealth, it is the USA that has the very best medical care procedures, it is the USA where you can own a home, buy a car, practice your religion , it is the USA that is still consider the breadbasket of the world, and it is the USA where a boy from a bi-racial family, a product of a broken marriage can go onto running for and may even become President of the United States. So yes Senator Obama meeting with the President of the United States is a privilege, and yes we Americans do stand above the rest of the world. We have earned that privilege and we certainly have earned that respect.

People are so enamored over the Obama mystique they have overlooked the meaning contained in his message.

"I think the United States must be humble and must be proud and confident of our values, but humble in how we treat nations that are figuring out how to chart their own course."

Humble (according to Charlotte the Spider) means close to the earth.

We all know whose words those were, don't we?

AP Should like today's Savage Chickens

http://www.savagechickens.com/blog/2008/02/paranoia.html

Fry- you did not add the final piece of Obama's quote

"and I think that it's important for us, in undoing the damage that has been done over the last seven years, for the president to be willing to take that extra step. That's the kind of step that I would like to take as president of the United States."

His point was, this administration, this president, has been responsible for the plummeting of the US's image abroad. Obama would do what he thinks it takes to work on the fragile international relationships.

By the way, Clinton would do this as well. Improving our international relationships abroad is extremely important to me, and the fact that Bill could have done this job was one of the main reasons I would have welcomed a Hillary Clinton presidency.

I do not see John McCain's strength being international diplomacy.

Lush

You do realize that the 68 map I put up was when Blue was used for Republicans and it is the description of the Nixon Win agains Hubert Humphrey.

dog's eye,

I am not enamored of anyone's mystique (including Anna Netrebko and that one's a personal thing) but I am prepared to vote for Senator Obama.

Some of it is a vote against either alternative. Some of it is a vote for him.

I'd feel the same way about voting for former Senator Edwards and even Senator Clinton.

There's always a proportion of what people have to learn and what they have to unlearn. My best guess about him is that he likes learning. My biggest concern is how much and how deeply he is willing to unlearn... and to whom he will choose to listen.

There are voices from his past which come from their own enclave... which have succeeded on their own turf and in their own world... but which would be at best questionable in big world outside of Sweet Home Chicago.

He has voices from the general past in his year like Brezinski's... old trilateralist who he was and apparently still is.

I'm not caught up in the rhetoric vs. reality trope or over silly charges of plagiarism.

I am not sure... and I'd like to know from who is sure... about Obama's stature/skills as a listener. Except for the one thing about him that is entirely unlike JFK and utterly like WJC: many times people report than when he is in the middle of a discussion, analytical or heated, all sides walk out feeling he's in agreement with them.

FDR had that, too.

Some of the posts on here make me believe more and more there are some who are so far removed from the rest of the world and even what those in other countries might want. If some in this group are a sampling of what the rest of this country represents, there is no hope for world peace anywhere in the world. If the US can’t come together and stop disagreeing about everything, with one segment wanting their way regardless, we are a lost nation. Yes, I would think that everyone everywhere wants “peace” but that may be a relative comment. If we could ask some in Iraq right now what they would have preferred before the invasion, wonder how many would answer that they like it the way it is now as opposed to before.

It would seem this is a “secret, insider society” blog where only some can have their posts appear to the public. Some have used obscenities, something I have not done, yet last night I posted about Michael Bloomberg’s concern that no votes were counted in many segments of NY for Obama. I was told it would be reviewed, and yet it has not appeared. I have copies of “everything” I post and can assure you that nothing was said that was derogatory to anyone. I merely stated what I had read at three separate, reputable news sites and “I am reviewed for content”.

Happy blogging people. Hope you solve the problems of the world.

GORDO,

While you readjust your tin foil helmet, I demand that you and all the like minded yuppie white kids who decry the Nation of Islam, immediately turn in all of your Public Enemy CD's because Chuck D declares that "Farrakhan is a prophet I think you ought to listen to", you stop your adulation for Muhammed Ali because he didn't become a "traitor" for refusing to go to Vietnam because of the Nation. Hell, if I ever find out your laughed at a Dave Chappelle skit, like the "Niggar" family, I will go Jay and Silent Bob to track you down and kick your ass...

Every candidate for President has scumbags that are supporting them. We got a glimpse of McCain's this week and while that bogus apology swayed this fellating press cabal, it just proved he totally condoned it because he lacked the courage to denounce in front of a crowd.

Kathy, I agree with your last post as well...

9/11

Just "one" question. Do you have one of those instant memories or do you just memorize who parts of Bush family speeches for the fun of it all? :-)

Make that whole parts.

I seem to have heard a who

Karolenna

Did your post have links in it? If there were more than three, it goes into a holding bin for review as a protection against spamming. There can be no more than two links in any one post.

I don't know if there is any limitation on links or possible copyright violations , but you might check Congressional Quarterly guidelines.

Nothing gets held to prevent your views from appearing on this blog.

" If the US can’t come together and stop disagreeing about everything, with one segment wanting their way regardless, we are a lost nation."

Please spare me your tears for America, Karo. What YOU mean is "If the US can’t come together and start agreeing with my candidate." Sorry, kiddo, that's what makes a horserace.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/whalen/2008/02/obama-and-the-billionaire.html

Perhaps people might want to read articles posted right here at CQ. Any explanation why a broke Rezko would get involved in a plot of land with Obama? And Rezko's money source? Also Rezko in 2002 gave money to another Obama buddy, Khadili. This plus Gordo's link is exactly why Nader said that prior to running, Obama was not the strong supporter for Israel he makes himself out to be now. Hillary questioning this is sleazy politics, yes? LOL.

Obama is an honest and straight forward person? Funniest moment from yesterday? CNN faced with hard evidence to the contrary, claiming they are not soft on Obama. Well let's see them follow up the many Obama stories including advisors, Powers, Malley, Zbig including the ones mentioned here.

Not a chance until Hillary is downed. Then the McCain camp will bring them up.

8'(

ohhhhhhhh Jamie...I am all depressed again 8'(

I was obviously looking at it backwards(I really need to pay more attention), thinking Nixon won with fewer states...still believing HRC is going to win(with fewer states)

(does that make sense?)

Karolenna, your post had 3 or more links and got caught in the spam filter. I have freed it now.

And you are quoting Debbie Schlussel? To return to a Monty Python reference, she is to the facts what Brave Sir Robin is to valor...

She is a bitter right wing version of Maureen Dowd. Say what you will about Malkin, Coultergeist and Ingraham, but they for the most part avoid the ugly stick, at least as far as looks go. Your girlfriend Debbie is ugly inside and out. You ever wonder why she is a guest only on the Howard Stern show?

I am so sick of this Nation of Islam crap. Just for shits and giggles, I wear a bow tie just to see how long it will take for the first NOI question to come. Among friends it takes less then five minutes. In the general public, it takes less time. As a plus, people get out of your way...lol

Yes, the NOI doesn't like Jews. How many Christian groups are equally as hateful about Catholics, Jews, Gays? If you stripped away the overtly hateful language in an NOI sermon and did the same for some of the Right wing churches, I don't think you would hear much difference?

Too bad Coulter wasn't in the NOI when she talked about perfecting the Jews...If Louis had said the same thing, people would have beat him over the head with his colostomy bag.

Nothing annoys me more than when people like you show no consistency. Heretofore GORDO, you get a nickname...

Tweety- Chris Matthews
Plunger- Rudy Guiliani
GORDO- BILL'O 2 the dipshit boogaloo

Excuse the language...Craig, you should provide a paypal for the swear jar...lol

Viva La Dunkin Donuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bear,
I realize now why you can't be accused of wearing a tin foil helmet. With your head lodged so far up your A,:how could you put one on? Go ahead and keep comparing apples with road apples. It provides the rational with a good laugh, like putting three black men you mention in the same camp.

Keep it up as CQ's almost top humorist. I thnk we can "bear" it.

Bear --------------------------------

"There are certain groups and individuals that should not be allowed anywhere near an office of public trust like the Presidency. Nazis, KKK, David Duke, and the Nation of Islam. This is not about being anti-black. If the individuals in question were members of CORE or the NAACP no problem. Those groups push for equality. They don’t preach a form of racism and hate. It is up to Senator Obama to be very clear and precise–no member of his staff will belong to or associate with any organization that preaches hatred and racial division."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/

If McCain starts to beat up hard on Obama, won't he come out ahead if he does the whole MLK or Gandhi turn the other cheek while making pointed rebuttals?

If McCain proves to some that Obama is as dirty as he is, doesn't he then make this more of a generational vote which I think he loses?

" Just for shits and giggles, I wear a bow tie just to see how long it will take for the first NOI question to come."

I must be missing something, Bear. You keep on and on about bow ties. The only bow tie I've seen recently was a particularly ugly oversized one worn by a congressman on c-span.

mornin' all,

Patsi, Farrukhan used to wear a skinny little bowtie.

Exactly Gordo,
And the advisors Obama selects is fair game as well as the sources of his money before his campaign for President. He rose to notice as a Lieberman mentor spouting the Kerry line in 2003-2004. Malley, Powers and others represent a sharp contrast to Obama's debate claims. His pastor, his advisors, his past policy declarations are all fair game, no matter how much the left wants to cry foul and bring in Coulter. What a crock. Hell, Obama can't even remember he once advocating nuking Iran. He was too busy running for President to vote on sanctions or even give up his head of the Senate Foreign Relations Sub Committee on Eastern Europe/NATO, which given the seriousness of daily reports for the last two years is a critical matter he hasn't held a single meeting over. Didn't stop him from issuing policy positions on NATO and Afghanistan. It's not about tin foil Bear, it's about telfon and that will come off sooner or later.

When even Putin and Sarkozy consider new sanctions on Iran and Obama doesn't, a bell should go off, unless of course one's head is really that far up ones.....

Perhaps it is fear of a black planet...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NoLkaGcpJFA

With regards to the KKK, we have had former members of the Klan serve on the US Supreme Court, in Congress and in countless state houses and governorships across the south.

David Duke was a prominent Republican who took more than a third of the vote in a statewide race in Louisiana.

Nazis suck. I don't know of any who have gained prominence in the US.

We can easily find pictures of the lynchings and other killings from the KKK and Nazis...outside of the 60 Minutes story this past weekend, I can't find cases of the NOI lynching, beating and raping people because of their race.

I think it's hilarious that white people who were very slow to decry the actions of the Klan and who can be subliminally swayed by race baiting during campaigns can get brown shorted in a hurry when a black group, wrongly mirrors their tactics.

If someone had the time, they could do a montage of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson clips and compare them to Louis X and the only difference would be complexion and wardrobe.

To me that is a typical lack of consistency. Maybe that's why Dick Cheney thought apartheid was a good thing in South Africa...

Kathy,

No I didn't forget to add anything. Obama is a one world thinker, where everyone is equal, everyone shares in the pie, even those who have not contributed. Equal distributions for all. That section you added, Obama would have you believe his comments where targeted only at Bush, that just isn't so. Obama would like to change the last 20 to 30 years of US policy. When the POTUS sits down with the leader of rouge government like Iran, North Korea, etc. you are providing those government a photo op that will be seen around the world, this grants them credibility, the POTUS is sitting down with murders and thugs and there for it is OK. Such a photo would take all the hope for change away from a people living under a ruthless government. You don't give rouge government credibility until they changed, until they have demonstrated they have earned that privilege.

Mika's supercilious shilling for Obama should be taken off the air. She is clearly desperate for her nut case father to be relevant again. What the hell is Obama doing with that man?

I could give a damn about Louis Farrakhan. What about Zbigniew Brzezinski??? Does this not concern anyone?

Bear,
The point of media used to be vetting "pointed rebuttals". If McCain proves the claims against Obama are valid, it will become a generational thing McCain loses? Now that's both brilliant and healthy.

I'm sure the Left will love Obama bombing the crap out of Iraq when they increase more than under our present containment. A nuke for Iran under Obama's watch will be the end of his adminsitration. More US troops in Afghanistan while many NATO countries don't even want to be in free-fire zones? Pakistani response to increased predator strikes killing innocents? Action on Darfur? Funding of missile defense? Consessions from Assad or Ahmadinejad? Supporting Hamas and Hizb'Allah has tension increases? Yes, a generational thing.

I guess we should just grin and bear it.

Patsi,

If you look at video from the 80's and 90's from when Louis X was in his heyday, he a majority of men in the NOI wore bow ties.

Why do they? I don't know. I do it because it takes added skill to properly tie a bow tie and I know it makes a statement that I'm willing to stand out in the crowd...

MaxTrue,

France and Russia will do anything they can to dilute Iranian sanctions because both countries are heavily invested in their nuclear program...just paying the same lip service McCain paid Cunningham

Bear

As horrid as I find some of the speeches of NOI one cannot deny some of the good they have done within the Black community.

Unfortunately they are the negative side of DuBois and Washington in the past and leaders such as Tavis Smiley in the present with their messages of self help, community action and mutual dependence.

It doesn't matter the group, there are always going to be people within it who probably should be denounced as haters and not reflective of the mission of the whole.

karolenna, if you had links to the 3 separate news sources, that is what stopped your posts - there is a 2 link limit. I see Craig freed it - it will appear at the spot it would have but for the spam filter. Review the posts here and you can't be serious about thinking this is an insider blog. That's simply not crdible considering the number and breadth of opinions that appear here - no matter how controversial, ill informed or simply stupid they may be.

Lush, cheer up. If Humphrey had won California, Ohio and Florida, he would have been president - which is why I keep saying that it's the big states the superdelegates will be concerned about - those that aren't worried about losing their own districts if they don't get on the Obama train, that is.

No one, I repeat no one will EVER prove I am in any way racist, so the idea racism is behind my questioning Obama is utter garbage.

Yes, Zbig, Powers, Malley, Khadili, the source of campaign money for Obama in Illionis, Obama's pastor, his staff people, his declarations etc are all fair game and very important. Obama is still the most unvetted candidate top dog in generations.

As far as the Jewish support (and they have always been big supporters of civil rights) will likely drift towards McCain once he pulls the curtain back. The last things the Jewish community wants is the characterization that only Lukidites question him or some present Obama advisors ANYWHERE near policy positions. By election time the Middle East is going to be a lot hotter than it already is.

Missed debate question; Obama wants to increase the 68% of foreign students making up graduate studies by cutting some defense spending. Hillary wants ot increase American enrollments with funds from other sources. Big difference that was never asked. Now where will those students come from and what programs will they be allowed to enter? Nuclear engineering?.....LOL

MaxTrue

That was really unnecessary. We are all trying to pull back from the internecine war going on here. You don't help with that sort of language. Hold to your position but please moderate. Bear is a respected and valued person here.

Max,

If Bush can't be blamed for 9/11 happening on his watch, how does the next president get blamed for Iran having a nuke?

Bush was supposed to be the tough guy and he's proven to be nothing more than a yapping chihuahua instead of a pitbull...

When I training to test for my black belt as a teenager, one of my tests was to fight multiple attackers at once. For 6 minutes I was in a ring and started with one opponent. Within 3 minutes I was facing 5 others. To manage the chaos you had to do the following:

1. Make sure no one got behind for a blind attack
2. Identify the person most likely to attack next and keep someone weaker than him between you to deflect the attack.
3. Keep moving.

There is nothing wrong with vacating a position so that you can reestablish yourself in a better spot to deliver your attack. When you just sit there an become an inert force, you make it to easy for the hits to come.

Vantage Point excellent, exciting movie

8) @ pogo

If Ms. Dowd wants to make the point that she doesn’t like Senator Clinton, then she’s made it. If she wants to make the point that the press treats Mrs. Clinton fairly, contrary to what the senator may believe, then this column, alas, has made Senator Clinton’s point.

Donna Lawlor
Brooklyn, Feb. 27, 2008

Posted by: Patsi | February 28, 2008 8:04 AM

This is so right on... It's the same in the blog. Those of us who criticize Obama get morally superior lectures on how we aren't upholding the "friendliness" and spirit of this site. When Obama's people attack us, it's because they were there first, or you have one asshole on the left and one on the right, and if you get flamed you yourself are responsible.

all I can say is F.O. and flame away sweethearts.

Webster Tarpley:Zbignew Brzienzki leading Obama campaign PT1

( Bear - you probably should not listen to this, you might explode.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfip0k2Oit8

Patsi

Though not as common anymore at one time, the bow tie was distinctive to the members of NOI when out in the community working.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/120000/images/_123554_copy_of_members_of_noi_arriving_at_lawrence_inquiry_(29-06-98)300.jpg.jpg

Wrong about France and Russian motives Bear. Where I to explain, I would be blasted for bandwidth.

Putin has an idea of what Iran is up to and see the fallout later on, as well as a possible strike.

France is very opposed to Iran these days for good reason. They are moving into the region on the Sunni side with a new base in the Gulf.

Your answer however didn't answer the observation about Obama's silence given his clear words to AIPAC. Let him declare sanctions don't work. Let him explain it means nothing to keep Quds in Iran instead of Lebanon, Caracas, Yemen, Darfur, Somalia, Iraq and Syria. What bullshit given his pandering answers in the last debate.

Feminist or not, I wrote to Miss Dowd and said she is acting like a total .. rhymes with HUNT. I am sure she doesn't read her negative reactions because if she did we'd never hear from her again, but someone at NYT takes the info down.

Patsi, Zbig was a huge asset in the 80s, but he's had a low profile in academia since then. I expect that with his intelligence, which is formidable, he knows we no longer live in a cold war world and has the ability to analyze foreign policy options. He was more hawkish than I liked and made some questionable decisions regarding the Chinas when he was Carter's National Security Advisor, but he doesn't trouble me - in fact, the involvement of folks like him may be one of the greatest saving graces of the Obama machine and will make me sleep better after voting for him in Nov. if Hillary doesn't pull off a minor miracle.

jamie,

Nah. I've got a neurotoxic brain. However, there is a special WTF cache there for moments like the one when Duhya spoke those words in 2000.

I had to look up the exact quote to confirm the context of the phrase.

" If the US can’t come together and stop disagreeing about everything, with one segment wanting their way regardless, we are a lost nation."

Please spare me your tears for America, Karo. What YOU mean is "If the US can’t come together and start agreeing with my candidate." Sorry, kiddo, that's what makes a horserace.

Posted by Patsi

That was my exact reaction, especially about "agreeing with my candidate", but Patsi, you're the professional writer and you said it better than me :-)

I think this election is the worst display of American democracy yet. The media bias, the "super" delegates, the caucuses, the open, and the non-open primaries, voting once or voting twice, voting early...Democrats do it this way, Republicans another way, from the outside it looks like one huge train wreck.

Debates that are merely stages for pundits to indulge their own egos. Debates that take on a game-show quality....now for the video round....it is just ridiculous...we should ave been given numbers to call to cast our votes...

ET, I imagine Mo thrives on negative comments. God knows, she has to generate tons of them.

9/11

"I had to look up the exact quote" Oh thank goodness. At least you gave me easy search terms so I could find it fast as well. :-)

dog's eye,

I think "Maxtrue" is the most incredibly apt nom de crap since Greg Brady made hisself "Johnny Bravo".

Bear, I''m not so sure that Max is using racist tricks as much as he's just using paranoid conservative screeed. Close the borders, hide under the bed. I'm not sure, but I think they teach calculus and physics pretty much everywhere - at McGill U., for instance - and last I checked, that was in Canada.

Lush, cheer up. If Humphrey had won California, Ohio and Florida, he would have been president - which is why I keep saying that it's the big states the superdelegates will be concerned about - those that aren't worried about losing their own districts if they don't get on the Obama train, that is.

Posted by: pogo | February 28, 2008 10:02 AM

I have always admired Hubert Humphrey. I was not old enough to vote in a national election until 1980, but I did read Humphrey's biography. He was a real and decent man. When he died, my sister and I stood outside the capitol building in St. Paul to pay respects. It was a horribly cold winter evening, and I remember that I had cheap vinyl shoes on, so my toes were absolutely numb. Walking by his casket, I felt sadness and a privilege to be there. I have not attempted to show up at a showing of any other politician.

I will just add that Muriel Humphrey did an admirable job carrying on for Hubert in the U.S. Senate. She did not run to keep the seat, and I was sorry because she would have done more great things, but I respected her decision to go back into private life and enjoy her remaining years.

ET, I imagine Mo thrives on negative comments. God knows, she has to generate tons of them.

Posted by: pogo | February 28, 2008 10:18 AM

Dayum, you mean, it sort of turns her on? I am sick now.

I think this cartoon reflects some of the senitment on this board:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/215/gallery/28613-a28849-t3.html

And I must say, I am shocked at the way some of the "feminists" on this board treat Mika and Maureen Dowd. But who am I to judge...

Back to work peeps.

In fact, there are 40 programs listed for graduate studies in Phyics in Canada aloe, and there are a few in Europe.

http://programs.gradschools.com/europe/physics.html

MaxTrue, I will be the first to admit I know very little about USA's foreign policy in specifics. I do feel that most of the messes we find ourselves in now were the creation of our own country's meddling where we didn't belong. Who trained and provided weapons for Osama Bin Laden? Who has supported dictators around the world as long as our own economy was propped up? I'm just asking... My interest in politics has been more about equal rights, stop the redistribution of wealth from the lower/middle classes to the rich, workers rights.. et al..

I am just wondering where you stand politically? And are you a member of any political party?

Bear,
I understand your point exactly and I do not tow the Bush line. We must fight multiple attacks at the same moment and Bush is not a black belt. My problem is that neither is Obama. To thwart Iran we must hold some real line in Iraq (and to thwart Assad too). Obama doesn't consider that. To thwart Iran we must increase sanctions even if it is a step at a time given public unrest in Iran. To turn to Afghanistan, we need a much bigger commit from NATO. Targeted kills inside Pakistan now will make a bad situation worse, strikes to the degree they would thwart the Taliban and AQ on the border. We also need to take out people like Imad and send a clear message very bad guys are targets. We need to explain to Russia Kosovo is a done deal but offer to increase terrorism efforts WITH Russia askiing them for some roll back of NGO restrictions. It's a tough play, but with Europe growing more upset with Russia, we have more room than with Iran....LOL.

Abbas has just declared an AQ presence in Gaza. Now Obama wouldn't talk with AQ would he? He won't even remark on the Un's inability to disarm Hizb'Allah. So while I agree with your spin on BUsh, Obama isn't offering any real counter policy. Add to that his advisors and past declarations -you have a pandering mess. The irony is that if you read Hillary's floor statement on the resolution to approve force, you see a cogent path of how we could have avoided the mess we are in. That one vote (and denying her stated position) seems to be the entire objection to her otherwise stronger position. Do you support Odum's Grand Bargin with Iran? Sanctions? Leaving Iraq to AQ and Iran?

This election is showing that a large % of one race is voting within its own race and I think this election is going to leave a lot of damage behind.

It is a very difficult position for many people, and that is a shame.

McCaina:

"I think this election is the worst display of American democracy yet."

If Obama wins - I think it will be very symbolic to the rest of the world. A relative unknown - who starts a movement, transcends race and gets the PEOPLE involved and becomes the most powerful leader in the world - I think would go along way to in aiding our desire to spread Democracy in the world.

Anyways, really back to work this time...

Ok my friend is here, so I am gone.. tomorrow in The Netherlands for a comic book convention with my little italiano...

Meanwhile, Rhianna has NOTHING over Hillary Clinton...
It's time to get UNDER Barack Obama...

YEAH BABY!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOTAfGuLA-0

Warren,

"the "feminists" on this board treat Mika and Maureen Dowd."

The whole idea behind "feminism" is to be judged equally on your own merits, particularly when being measured against the experience and talents of a male of the species.

The two ladies mentioned deserve every brick brack thrown at them. They have acted as surrogate males to unfairly and visciously attack a competent and intelligent woman.

EUroTom,

Zbig trained and supported OBL under Carter. Actually in July of 1979 before the Russians invaded Afghanistan. Many credit Zbig for baiting the Soviets into Afghanistan. There is also a big Soros connection, but that is a different matter. OBL and his people along with General Zia of Pakistan, who Carter bribed, had no problem with torturing captured Soviet prisoners in violation of the Geneva Convention. That is the huge reason Obama distances himself form Zbig while retaining him as an advisors. Google links between Huntington (Zbig's buddy at Harvard), Zbig and Obama. The past connection is there. Google Malley and powers and you begin to get a picture far different than what Obama spouts on the trail. Hillary is afriad to bring this up for reasons we all can imagine. McCain will not hesitate and added to the Rezko associations, this will be a problem.

f Obama wins - I think it will be very symbolic to the rest of the world. A relative unknown - who starts a movement, transcends race and gets the PEOPLE involved and becomes the most powerful leader in the world - I think would go along way to in aiding our desire to spread Democracy in the world.

Posted by: warren | February 28, 2008 10:38 AM

I think he could be the next Mahatma Gandhi....

warren, wrt the cartoon - probably - wrt to the feminist comment - that's what i contend separates liberals from conservatives - liberals are willing to openly criticize their own when their own do and say stupid shit, conservatives may mutter under their breath but aren't so openly critical of their own no matter how stupid they may be. I suspect Fry and Ping may have a different viewpoint. ;-{)

Lordy, I never heard of Debbie Schlussel until today. But then I Googled her only to learn that Rush Limbaugh often reads her column, "Debbie Does Politics" on air.....ROFL!

Also, I don't see a huge difference between Obama and Hillary on the domestic front (Obama IS more liberal). My objection has always been his foreign policy stance and the style and oratory over substance line. I also have a natural adversion to the pundit bias well displayed towards Obama and the sexism evident everywhere.

Maxtrue,

I was not inferring in any way that you were racist. I am not sure what triggered that thought but I apologize nonetheless. I am not a fan of the Nation of Islam either. I am just annoyed that they are immediately labeled as radioactive, when I see little difference between them and other religious groups.

Perhaps my view is the result of me being a non practicing Catholic who just cringes at the hypocrisy with the church I was baptized into...I ask myself that question often.

I get annoyed when a certain sentiment, that is based more on fear than fact, becomes the narrative for a particular candidate...

Anyway, I'm off to work...

Before I forget, tonight, Obama is at the Fort Worth Convention Center...can't wait for that. Tomorrow Huckabee is at the Fort Worth Stockyards at 3PM. Tomorrow Hillary Clinton will be at the stockyards from 11-1.

John McCain's only local appearance is for a $1K plate fund raiser...funny how he is raising money while everyone else is doing free events.

Maureen Dowd : a petty female who has no skin in the game and hides behind her pen.

I like to see MD go face to face with Hillary, let her stand there in person and ridicule and be that disrespectful towards HRC and everything she is and has accomplished.

MD is an example of the worst in human nature, and she gets paid for it.

ET

"I think he could be the next Mahatma Gandhi...."

Please tell me your tongue is digging a very deep hole in your cheeck.

" do it because it takes added skill to properly tie a bow tie and I know it makes a statement that I'm willing to stand out in the crowd..."

Ha -- Bear, so I guess you don't do those clip-on ones....:)

McCain does free event too, the dinners are just smaller groups, they serve a different purpose. I like the smaller events, they are more interesting, more detailed, and less staged.

Sad to say - Buddy Miles has died. The band of Gypsies can begin to convene again.

Buddy Miles.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/arts/music/28cnd-miles.html?hp

SNL writer surprised by debate mention

http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2008-02-27-clinton-SNL_N.htm?csp=34

Bear,
You never said I was racist. You did imply that much of the heat on Obama comes from sources or against personalities associated with being racist. I just wanted to be clear that nothing I have ever said about Obama is racist. I may think some he associates with are racist (towards whites or Jews), but I don't think Obama is racist, perhaps a bit anti-Zionist. His wife, well, I don't really know. So I said what I did because I want to make very clear I personally don't have a racist bone in my body and that includes genetic considerations of those who are Muslims. My objections to Islamists have nothing to do with blood. Islamofascist is a statistical term based on empirical observation, not genetic considerations.

I also do not brand you an idiot dove or a moonbat, my tin foil hat comments were a reaction, not a statement of fact....LOL, one quite difficult to picture if I even wanted to go there in my "creative imagination". God forbid this agnostic from taking that mental leap.

And now, the morning economic report.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/business/AP-Wall-Street.html?ref=business

If you are happy, don't click the link.

Every time Bush opens his mouth, the stock market takes another nose dive. One would almost suspect, people think he is lying through his teeth.

Dog's eye -- Aside from Ziggy's China mistakes -- his Great Idea to funnel arms into the Middle East to try and affect the Soviet's adventure in Afghanistan sure didn't turn out well. When asked about it he sneered. "What regrets, just some stirred-up Moslems."

jamie, Tom is off to a comic book convention - but rest assured, his tongue may have to be surgically separated from his cheek.

I'm in Ohio for a Cracker family emergency and on dial up but am hoping to have a trailspotter report

Patsi - my take on Zbiggy's intent in the Middle east in the 70s was that it was better to do something rather than nothing to support anti-Soviet forces in the region by providing them arms to fight the soviet troops than to get into a direct armed conflict with the Soviet giant so soon on the heels of Vietnam. With us out of Vietnam, the cooling down the cold war was a welcome relief and the American people would have never stood for us trying to save by military intervention another country halfway around the world from the Commie threat. Look at us today - maybe he was right and actually read the situation there correctly - the Soviets never were able to take Afghanistan and left after 10 years of trying.

Barack says one thing when he actually means another? Say it ain't so!!!!

CTV Canada: "Barack Obama has ratcheted up his attacks on NAFTA, but a senior member of his campaign team told a Canadian official not to take his criticisms seriously, CTV News has learned. Within the last month, a top staff member for Obama's campaign telephoned Michael Wilson, Canada's ambassador to the United States, and warned him that Obama would speak out against NAFTA, according to Canadian sources. The staff member reassured Wilson that the criticisms would only be campaign rhetoric, and should not be taken at face value."

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080227/dems_nafta_080227/20080227

kc, best of luck with the family emergency, and with the dial up connection. I've tried that with this site only to become frustrated and unwilling to wait for the almost interminable site loading delays.

jamie, people would think...? LOL

Maxtrue,

With regards to your Posted by: Maxtrue | February 28, 2008 10:10 AM post, I understand your concern but what confuses me is that the anti Obama people are on him because they don't like the way he will have to clean up W's mess. Yet they aren't nearly as angry at W for creating the mess.

With regards to your 10:58 post, everyone and I mean EVERYONE, has within them some form of bigotry or prejudice of some type. It may not always be triggered by race. I personally see the breakdown today to be along economic lines. You need to search youtube for the uncensored version of Chris Rock's Niggers vs. Black People. He took a lot of heat for it and won't perform it anymore because he felt it allowed white folks the license to use the word but notice who is in the audience, falling out of their seats laughing so hard.

Patsi, with regards to you 10:50 post, I was taught early on that a true gentleman ties his own tie.

I have a legal question of sorts.

If the following is true

"McCain was born on August 29, 1936, at the Coco Solo Air Base in the then-American-controlled Panama Canal Zone[2]"

How is he able to run for President since he was only born in a US controlled territory and not in the United States?

Bear - I think US embassies and military bases abroad are considered US soil (but I'm not sure - this issue does not come up often in corporate law...)

Shocker: Obama Campaign Reveals Fake Stand on NAFTA [Video UPDATE] »

A Canadian medical professional (no more to protect anonymity) reports to me: “This story made headlines tonight in Canada in all major Canadian news networks. Barack Obama has been caught lying. Spread this as much as you can because it is true and factually supported. I think the people of Ohio as well as the rest of America, deserve to know this.”

But Tuesday night in Ohio, where NAFTA is blamed for massive job losses, Obama said he would tell Canada and Mexico “that we will opt out unless we renegotiate the core labour and environmental standards.”

Oh, that bamboozler. Imagine, for a moment, that you’re the head of state or diplomatic corps, or one of the chief politicians or government officials, for the hundreds of nations across the world. Wouldn’t you read this article and wonder WHICH OBAMA you’ll be dealing with, and IF he means anything he says?"

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/

Funny:

"A man at a Clinton town-hall meeting here at a school gymnasium stood to say that it was a “no-brainer” that Mrs. Clinton should be president. He then turned toward the back of the gym where a penned-off area held perhaps 30 reporters and a half-dozen local and network cameras. “You guys have been so unfair to this lady,” he declared. “I can’t believe you.”"

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/clinton-asked-about-veep-role/

Bear -- a couple of thoughts....first, re: Chris Rock...

I've never liked him. But then I think back to the first times I heard Richard Pryor's act, and remember my mouth dropping -- but somehw when he said it I knew he was sticking it to the establishment. What's your take on Pryor?

Next -- the question of being native born...if you are born to an American military family on duty, it doesn't matter where it is, you are a citizen. At least that's what they told us when our daughter was born in Germany.

If it's factually supported, why are the sources remaining anonymous? If anonymous sources aren't good enough for the NY Times, then they aren't good enough for these people either. Who is the top "staffer" who leaked this information? I'm guessing it his Nation of Islam committee that feels Canada is to white to be a good neighbor right?

bear, that's never been ruled upon, but I don't think it is really much of an issue since he was on US military erritory, albeit in Panama, at the time. The founders were less than clear, although their intent was to prevent foreigners from becoming president.

Love this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAJYMgX4JuU

Senior member of Obama campaign phones Canadian ambassador to tell him that NAFTA would become part of the debate and that Obama would take heavy swings at the trade deal but then told the ambassador..."don't worry...it's just campaign rhetoric."

Nice...so O' what else is just "campaign rhetoric"?

New kind of politics eh?

LOL

Patsi,

With regards to Richard Pryor, I was too young to understand his standup when he was really popular. As I got older and started to watch him, I am impressed at how timeless his act was. There was a genius to comedy in the 70's. Whether it was Pryor or shows like All in the Family, The Jefferson's, Maude and many others. Were they to be debuting today, I think only Richard Pryor would have had the same success. Unfortunately the shows would have all been picketed or boycotted by someone who didn't get it.

New note...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/23371185

Hillary Clinton will appear on Jim Cramer's Mad Money program tonight...should be an interesting watch!

Patsi, I think that modern thought runs that way - the question is what the constitutional meaning of "native born citizen" is. It's the "native born"part that is the constitutional bugaboo. And I wouldn't necessarily take as gospel what "they" told you if the "they" was an armed forces source, or even a state department source for that matter. It's probably not an issue. Question, was your daughter eligible for German citizenship?

Charisma matters:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20080228/cm_csm/yzellekebennis_1

" And I wouldn't necessarily take as gospel what "they" told you if the "they" was an armed forces source, or even a state department source for that matter. It's probably not an issue. Question, was your daughter eligible for German citizenship?"

Pogo -- what we were told by the NSA (with whom my husband served) was that she wound in essence have dual citizenship until 18, and then she could apply for German citizenship or do nothing, and be an American citizen.

Warren:

10:32 post

Mika and Maureen Dowd obviously hate themselves as well as women in general (sort of like internalized homophobia...but for girls). So I'm not surprised that the feminists on this board and others call them on this.

If they didn't hate themselves and other women so much, they'd find more constructive and fairer ways to report on Hillary's candidacy (even if they don't agree with her or think she should be President - attack her on the issues or on her stances) rather than demean her and tear her down as a woman...when they do that it tears all women down.

Probably someone posted this a long time ago but I just read it and think it says it all:

http://www.cleveland.com/schultz/index.ssf?/base/living-0/1202808727169901.xml&coll=2

Bear -- interesting thoughts on Pryor. I didn't know ONE racist-type who liked him but have certainly met a few who think Chris Rick is fabulous. There was a difference either in the tone or the times.

Pogo

Most children born of children of one nationality who are born elsewhere have a status of dual citizenship. The rules about when they can assume that second citizenship vary from country to country. For some it is immediate such as here in the U.S. (the reason for so much angst over "anchor babies") for others it is when the child reaches majority and is able to make their own decision. Others even allow dual citizenship for life without swearing allegiance to one or the other.

Most children born of parents

Patsi - using your daughter as an example, it's that gray area created by the recognition of her birth in Germany by Germany that might be the problem for a kid born to American parents overseas if that kid wanted to be pres. Like I said, modern thought tends to run that it doesn't matter, but it's never been tested.

Well, off to lunch.

ET

"I think he could be the next Mahatma Gandhi...."

Please tell me your tongue is digging a very deep hole in your cheeck.

Posted by: jamie | February 28, 2008 10:49 AM

Indeed it is... indeed...

"The latest slice-and-dice of Hillary Clinton is a volume of 30 essays. "

I saw that book in Borders, it was awful. Can you imagine if the same book was written on Obama....no one would never print it because it would considered too racist.

Good link Wendy.

O/T

No I am not off to the comic book convention yet... Tomorrow I have to work and then Mauro and I head to Den Haag... sorry The Hague, for the convention. Mauro is one of the featured artists. http://www.myspace.com/lonesomechaser71 ... I am there for moral support and last year there was a CD , vinyl and cassette convention attached to the same building. Those things are dangerous for me...

"Mika and Maureen Dowd obviously hate themselves as well as women in general"

Bold statement Wendy. I assume Mika and Maureen Dowd would take issue with it.

I just wish you Clinton supporters would not demonize all those who do not think Hillary is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Clinton has flaws. Some people pointing out these flaws may be sexist - but that does not mean the flaws aren't real. Clinton would be better served addressing these flaws - than fighting with her critics about what their motives are.

O/T again...

I am an active member of MYSpace and I also have FACEBOOK. I don't quite get FACEBOOK.. But I am trying.... Anyone else use these social networks?

Warren,

You might want to at least make an attempt to understand women -

Warren, have you ever read any of the shit Maureen spews? Would you criticize Bear or Alpha if they were angered by a black attacking Obama by using racist words?

I didn't think so.

Well, if McCain did get disqualified, it would be the "miracle" Huckabee was praying for, and, an opening for Romney to pull his campaign out of suspended animation.

It'll be interesting to see how many Texans show up at their precint meetings after the polls close on Tuesday night. Will they give up "American Idol" to up their choice's delegate count?

Warren wrote:

"I assume Mika and Maureen Dowd would take issue with it."

I'm sure they would.

"I just wish you Clinton supporters would not demonize all those who do not think Hillary is the greatest thing since sliced bread."

I'm wondering Warren...do you read my posts...the links I provide with my posts or do you just react to them?

My post and the link I provided speak to the heart of the issue not whether those women agree with Hillary or think she'll make a good President. It's about HOW they go about trying to discredit her - not on the issues...not on what she has or hasn't done that they do or don't agree with...not on her policies or her fitness to be President.

As the column I pointed to so aptly points out...the attacks are on Hillary as a woman and on her womanhood in general. They tear her down as a woman rather than challenging her political views and plans.

My point and the point of the column is that this hurts women and the young girls who do not know how to unpack this kind of hatred...especially coming from someone of their own gender.

Does Hillary have flaws...yes...clearly she does - Warren we all do. And I don't agree that Clinton is better served by addressing issues of whether her hair looked like crap when Chelsea was born, or addressing the issue that her voice is shrill or addressing the issue of whether she wore the right pearls with the right dress.

She is better served addressing the issues that affect this country and whether or not she's the right person with the right plan to lead us through it...but THESE women are not asking her to do that.

Patsi,

Why must your venom be spewed using curse words?

McCaina

Warren says he's a feminist...so clearly he does understand women.

;-)

You're right McCaina - I don't have a clue. I guess I will just go back to drinking beer and patching up holes in the glass ceiling.

If there is one thing I have learned from this board - it is that attacking people you disagree with does nothing to change the mind or their attitude - and often just makes things worse.

Sexist men and women like to keep it that way. That's why sexism still exists.

It is a waste of oxygen to try to enlighten those who refuse to acknowledge the issue.

Did Nader just announce his running mate, if so who is it

I just wish you Clinton supporters would not demonize all those who do not think Hillary is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Clinton has flaws. Some people pointing out these flaws may be sexist - but that does not mean the flaws aren't real.

Posted by: warren | February 28, 2008 12:35 PM

oh please... I just wish you Obama supporters would not demonize all those who do not think Barack is the greatest thing since God parted the heavens and the earth.

When we stand up for Hillary, we get catcalls, nasty comments, other insults, suggesting that we aren't "behaving"... some of us get told because we are feminists, and if we say anything negative about Obama, we are racists. And when one or two Obama people go over-the-top in PERSONAL..> VERY PERSONAL, NASTY ATTACKS against other participants, the other supporters join in the fray.

I am sure you are not suggesting Obama has no flaws... One big one: being the evangelist for a "new politics" but when confronted by his campaign smear campaign against Hillary, simply shrugs his shoulders and says "that's the nature of political campaigns". One word: HYPOCRITE

"Clinton has flaws. "

The flaws in a political sense don't include, the width of her hips, the style of her hair, the sag of her chin, anything to do with her age, the pitch of her laugh, the "diabolical" (or any other negative adjective) in her eye blah blah blah

They also do not include any right wing crap rumor about her sex life, how many people she may have murdered, the number of drug deals traded blah blah blah

Niether should they include anything her husband may have done in bed, under the desk, with a cigar, or the ladies (euphamistically) who may be lined up outside his door.

If even one tenth of the crud that has been thrown at this woman had been thrown at the men running against her, you would hear every kind of accusation of bias and prejudice ... but she is fair game.

The most common thing you hear from supporters of others is, "I just don't like her" ... No sh*t Sherlock. Anyone who actually believed what has been thrown at her could.

If there is one thing I have learned from this board - it is that attacking people you disagree with does nothing to change the mind or their attitude - and often just makes things worse.

Posted by: warren | February 28, 2008 12:51 PM

And that hasn't stopped the Obama posse from doing just that, as YOU yourself well know Warren. What this really is all about is that the Clinton supporters refuse to roll over and "take it up the ass" for Obama by claiming the nomination is wrapped up and we should "morph" to the winnning side.

And that's the REAL issue going on here.

By the way, some criticized Gordo for his anon source post RE: NAFTA and Obama. But did any of you click on the LINK I posted to Canadian television?????

The article says Obama's campaign will not deny this.

There's your new kind of politics. Just like the old kind.

vadaryl ,

Matt Gonzalez is Nader's VP choice

Hey - I am no feminist.

Let's be clear - I just love women and think they are more capable than men in most respects.

warren - If you had been around last year, you would know that I was not on the Hil'ry bus. The only reason I'm on it now is that, IMO, she is the best remaining candidate by far.

I do wonder why some seem to imply some kind of a cat-fight whenever women disagree?

Attacking people here or in the real world, with the expectation that you will get them to change their minds, is a waste of energy. Control freak is a rotten job and you won't find any people-pleasers to be easily swayed here.

Hey Blue...

"Attacking people here or in the real world, with the expectation that you will get them to change their minds, is a waste of energy."

CORRECT, and the rachet job they did the other night has only HARDENED my resolve to tell the whole bunch to just SOD OFF... As you can see, I am still pissed.

I am going to puke.

Jamie,

HRC's biggest flaws in this campaign are as follows:

1. She hired incompetent people to be her closest advisors.
2. She overpaid for their bad advice which she used.
3. She misread the anger of the electorate this year.
4. She did too little to merit the overconfidence her campaign had that this race would be over on Super Tuesday.
5. She let her husband campaign to preserve his legacy instead of to promote her campaign.
6. She didn't run the right FU Bush campaign. If she stressed from day one that, "I am not perfect, I have made mistakes, but I have always cleaned up after the mistake that I have made and that others around me have made. I am best equipped to do so after these last 8 years", she could have blunted the Obama message. You really can fix a mess, or change a mess, until you clean it up first.

-sorbet-

Will the McCain issue, and the fact that the world is a lot smaller than it used to be, open a debate, a change, the way for Ahhnold?

If life imitates art ("Judge Dread" & "The Simpsons Movie"), maybe.

McCaina, which of us are the guilty culprits? :-)

"And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond the sea, or out of the
limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens: Provided, That the right of
citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United
States". (Act of March 26th, 1790, 1 Stat. 103).

"Hey - I am no feminist.

Let's be clear - I just love women and think they are more capable than men in most respects."

this one

blueindallas,

After you have visited a "gentleman's club" in Montreal, men assume that women will start a cat fight, rip off each other's clothes, break out the jug of baby oil that happens to be next to them. After the appropriate lather has been worked up, them men will then assume they will get an invite to join the fun...

That's what happens when you dare to dream...lol

BTW, are you coming to Fort Worth to see either Obama tonight or Hillary on Saturday?

Yes, Tom. Typing with the caps lock on means one is still PO'd. Also, not the best use of energy, but understandable.

I may be wrong, but I think things started going very bad when:

Obama and every other candidate focussed all their wrath on her, he fumbles in the debate about driver's licenses for illegal aliens, and then, that female student who asked a question about the environment and then said the Clinton campaign had put her up it, thus reinforcing the idea that the Clintons will do ANYTHING to be elected. Of course it's totally unfair because EVERYONE does this sort of thing. After the Iowa caucuses, the MSM began immediately to write her off as a legitimate candidate anymore because she didn't come in first in Texas...

Patsi,

With the regards to your last post, the Who addressed your point well...

$5 starbucks card to the first person who names the song and the line I am thinking of...

EuroTom:

"I am sure you are not suggesting Obama has no flaws... One big one: being the evangelist for a "new politics" but when confronted by his campaign smear campaign against Hillary, simply shrugs his shoulders and says "that's the nature of political campaigns". One word: HYPOCRITE."

I never claim Obama is perfect. But I do think he is a step in the right direction. To illustrate my point - compare David Axelrod to Howard Wolfson.

I think what upsets me about what Warren posted is the insinuation that any discussion Hillary supporters want to have with this board about serious issues that have come up during this campaign is because we're angry that the world doesn't love Hillary.

I'm a very practical person and I've known for many many years that A LOT of people don't admire Hillary in the same way I do. I'm OK with that - I don't ask anyone to do that.

The issue I was bringing up was not specifically about Hillary - it was about the ugly hatred and in the cases of the women mentioned self hatred of women that has bubbled to the surface during this campaign. The issue on the table was...how does this affect us as women (especially the young girls growing up) moving forward...long after this campaign is over and McCain is President? It's a discussion worth having.

I actually do respect Warren's POV and so was peeved to have the issue brushed off as me wanting everyone to LOVE Hillary. I don't care whether you love her or like her - that's your business. When talking about Hillary I have simply always made the case of why I believe she is the best choice for President. I admit that I have argued my points vigorously. I've never asked you to fall in love with her. I can't say that Obama supporters have not asked US to do the same.

No. I don't need to participate in a cult of personality event for either side. I will, however, be supporting Hil'ry again on Tuesday night at the precint convention. Gotta love Texas for that. You really can vote early AND vote often.

Bear

I will agree that Hillary Clinton has been badly served by her campaign managers and their decisions. She probably should have tried to get Carville back in the fold.

That in no way changes the fact that the diatribe against her started before she had ever made even one speech. The poundings she took after the first couple of debates were horrendous.

There has been an aspect of "circle the wagons" ever since those media types took their first abysmal dips in the slander ocean. What you did n't hear from those biased creeps was criticism of the campaign, the issues or the ideas. You heard a constant, non stop onslaught against her as a human being.

If one of these mud slingers had said something such as "Obama looks pale this evening. He must be stressed by the negative reports" ... "why no I don't think so, probably just lighter makeup" ... "are you sure? He's obviously angry do you suppose he had a little tiff with Michelle?"

Can you at least IMAGINE the screams of outrage?

Bear

You're 1:06 post - now that's what I'm talking about. Some of the things I can agree with - some I don't - but you are not tearing her down specifically as a woman...you are talking about what you see as her errors during the campaign and i believe THAT is fair.

Thank you!

Here ya go McCaina - read this (and why don't you get me a beer while you're at it little lady):

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/02/clintons-tactical-switchhittin.html#comment-42371

Warren wrote on the topic of why he thinks Obama will be a better President than Hillary:

"To illustrate my point - compare David Axelrod to Howard Wolfson."

R they running for President?

;-)

JK

Bear, I remember vividly talking about Clay's contest to avoid the draft during the early 1960s. For a number of months it was a almost a daily topic of conversation in our hooch in Korea. Thanks to the Pacific Stars & Stripes, we were pretty well informed.

We were all junior enlisted personnel, both draftees and regulars, and African American and Caucasian. I think there were twelve of us in our quonset.

It wasn't until a year or two into his contest with the draft board that he failed his qualification tests. We, to a man, believed that he had faked the tests.

We, also to a man, expressed our belief that if we could serve, and if Elvis Presley could serve, then Clay could certainly serve.

During this period, we were not at war in Vietnam. That happened in '65 when I was stationed at Fort Sill.

I don't recall when Clay changed is name to Ali and converted to Islam. I'm reasonably sure it was well after my departure from (that) tour in Korea in June of '63.

FWIW, I spent almost the entire decade in the Far East serving most of the time in Korea as well as in Vietnam in '65-'66. I switched from the Army to the AF in '67.

After leaving Korea the first time, I don't remember any of us talking about Clay/Ali--he just wasn't relevant to our situation.

But, we did have many conversations about Dr. King--it was a mixed bag with some admiring his convictions and courage and others viewing him with suspicion and worse.

There was no such ambivalence about our feeling towards Clay and, later, Ali.

Dog

didn't you see my emoticon and my JK.

I know what Warren was trying to say - I was just kiddin' him a little.

:-D

Flatus, good research skills - that S. 103 thing is nice, but it only reflects the current thinking of Congress at the time the act was passed and would not have the force of law if the USSCt disagrees that it is constitutional, that is, if the status of someone (McCain, say) is challenged by someone with standing to bring a suit based on that distinction. Absent such a suit, it is a valid law that is supported by the current thinking I mentioned above.

And Joe S., can we assume that you bring the conservative perspective to the discussion here?

Flatus, of course, 1790 is not exactly all THAT current. LOL

I take your points Wendy.

I am a fan of strong and assertive women. These types of women include my mom, my friends and most of my ex-girlfriends. I think these types of women are also drawn to me - because I can handle them.

Now I know that is a loaded statement - but what I mean is that I don't find that behavior off-putting.

That being said - Hillary still rubs me the wrong way. I think this is because she can be condescending and she often states her own case by belittling her opponents or their ideas. And also - I don't resent her as a woman - I resent her as a person who has it all. She started this campaign with all the power, connections and status - and honestly - I think it went to her head.

Jamie,

I can remember when Obama started to run, some thought he was too black, some thought he was too white, now a majority of the people who have voted thus far think he is just right...lol

I know he hasn't caught the shit to nearly the extent of HRC and the reasons, I believe, are because he wasn't declaring or acting like the frontrunner and presumptive nominee at the start of the campaign. I also think that just like in the 1992 Clinton campaign, the Obama team was quick to react.

If I were here, I would have told Carville, you either work for me or I make sure Bill either sleeps with your wife or waits until your daughters are 18 and then date them...lol

If she did, she would be measuring curtains...btw, how long would Schuster get suspended for if me made that last statement? lol

Bear

Did anyone guess your Who song?

Bear -

Won't Get Fooled Again.

NAFTA story denied...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080228/ap_on_el_pr/obama_fact_check

Lush, great minds, and all that. ;-{)

but the line is something like meet the new boss, same as the old boss...right

Warren:

I chuckled at the strong women are attracted to you because you can handle them...that was loaded in SOOOOO many ways...but I know what you meant. I believe you and I have had some pretty enthusiastic discussions - which even when peeved have enjoyed for the most part.

As to your last paragraph. I understand what you are saying and understand your reasons for having a distaste for Hillary. I don't fault you for saying you don't like her because she can be condescending...I don't actually think that attacks her as a woman (certainly not in the same way a lot of the men and women in the media have)...I, as you know, have said the EXACT same thing about Obama...which is one of the reasons I don't like him...so I can't fault you there.

Bear, man oh man do we agree on the Carville thing - what a colossal mistake. BTW, where's my Starbucks card? LOL

pogo provided the song....I think I got the line right...do we each get a 2.50 StarbucksGC? 8)

Bear,
You may be right -we all harbor some "bias" and I think Chris goes way over the top in regards to characrterizing Republicans.

You mention flaws, but really, if you take a good look at Obama in 2003 to Obama now, his flip-flopping alone is a big flaw. He will not say do away with NAFT and foreign aid is no replacement for market share. Hillary is quite right that NAFT was good and reform of environmental and worker rights obligations are essential to make it better. All first steps requires reform. In fact, Obama v Hillary represents gutting over reform. We need to reform our policies, not just cast them into the wind as though our NSS does not represent six decades of bipartisan consensus. It is astounding McCain can use JFK's words with more relavance than Obama.

Zbig, Malley, Powers are not doves. They are just simply wrong. Zbig baited the Soviets into Afghanistan and armed extremists before the Soviets were in Kabul. Sending tens of thousands more US troops into Afghanistan does not reform our policy there. Getting NATO in and having more border special ops with France, Canada, Australia, Germany (no they won't), Brits, Danes and even Paks make far more sense. And Zbig s crewed Iran. He pulled the rug from under the Shah before the moderates were in place producing far more abuse to the Iranians than under the Shah. Fact not fiction. Then after screwing up, Carter announced the Carter Doctrine.....LOL

Obama should be championing sanctions and stressing the need for the Brits, France and others to push the "Carter Doctrine" which was just words back in 1979 to blunt public criticism of Jimmy's job rating. We need China to stop arming the Taliban and the Sudan. We need the Russians to stop arming Iran. We need a President who is not afraid to offer help to any who might be threatened by Chavez and declare that FARC is a terror group. Do you think JFK would allow a sub base off Caracas? LOL We need to make clear the price Syria will pay for destabilizing Lebanon. Sure, Bush has mucked things up, but to throw out the sink because of the dirty water is foolish. Obama was wrong about Mushrarraf. He held elections, stepped down from the military and isn't making the same deals with militants the "moderates" are willing to make.

And does anyone notice the missile defense the Left claimed would never work? Now they point to smuggled WMD as their opposition to missile defense. What side does Obama stand on? I think that most feel they know what side Hillary stands on and in fact, attack her for it. You point to poor campaign advisors and I point to bad Obama advisors on foreign policy. What is more important in the end? He ain't no karate kid. No wonder our worst adversaries hate McCain. And again, you can't excuse Gordo's links and the company Obama keeps. The connections to dubious experts goes a long way back to Obama's Columbia and Harvard days. Just read some Huntington and some Soros. Explore Powers, Rice, Malley, Lake, Zbig and even the ties between Rezko and Khadili. There is a bigger circle the media doesn't want to explore.

Run a FU Bush campaign? That is smart posturing? That is what it is all about? That is my point exactly Bear. Bush is the greatest evil and EVERYTHING he did was wrong? What nonsense. So because Hillary didn't convert to the Liberal Church and abide by the rules of faith, she loses. Maybe and how pathetic.

I'd rather be right than President, Senator Clay once said. Read her floor speech on the resolution for force. It made the most sense and offered the best direction, unless you're Bush OR a moonbat. Hillary's greatest problem has been being a centrist. Just check her Senate record, her statements and positions. When Iran leaps forward, Obama's actions and judgment will be what we remember. Iraq will not have WMD any time soon. Saddam is dead and if the Republicans had listened to Hillary, we might be enjoying far better success and standing in the world. But that does not go along with the Liberal meme this year. After we get blasted and outrstock continues to sink, it will change and sadly another Reagan will come along to lift us back on a proud, confident and hopeful streak because the Democrats wouldn't listen to their heads. No wonder so many Pelosi people support Obama along with Patrick...LOL, Teddy, Dodd, Jesse and so many other JFK-like people. With a karate team like that Bear, you wouldn't win any matches, or even light one......

Pogo "Flatus, of course, 1790 is not exactly all THAT current. LOL"

The main point was that even at that stage, it was a point that demanded clarification. And, that the statute was created right on the heels of the Constitution, it can be surmised that it is consistent with the Framers' intent. In any case, I suspect that after these many years it is settled law.

Bear wrote:

"I know he hasn't caught the shit to nearly the extent of HRC and the reasons, I believe, are because he wasn't declaring or acting like the frontrunner and presumptive nominee at the start of the campaign."

I don't disagree that this may have something to do with some of her negative press...but I believe it cuts much deeper than this and is far more complicated. What you noted above comes up among pundits as a reason all the time but it's simply because they don't want to have the discussion--like we have had here today--about some of the darker issues that may implicate them in some way.

I do believe, no matter what happens, that Hillary will go down in history as being the woman that really made a dent in the patriarchal power structure.

Lush, That would be correct

http://www.songfacts.com/lyrics.php?findsong=1532

Last 2 lines of the song.

$5 starbucks card to the first person who names the song and the line I am thinking of...
--Bear

so do we both get a 5.00 gc or just 2.50?

I am a Who fan(by marriage).

warren, well if Nedra Pickler has determined it ain't true, it must not be. LOLOLOL

I will say one thing about Senator Clinton's campaign style that has been off putting and should have been counteracted by campaign managers quicker to bring out the "Real" Hillary.

She KNOWS the issues, probably better than anyone who has stood on a stage with her other than the fondly remembered: Biden, Richardson, and Edwards.

She frequently comes off as the teacher's pet who gets called on when none of the other kids know the answer to a question who then wonders why the other children won't play with her. It hurts to be that kid, but at the same time you can't help liking that you really did know the answer.

Everyone who knows her intimately, say she is funny, generouse, thoughtful and a very good friend, but if all the public got to see was the "Know It All" that wasn't a good thing.

My preference is let her come accross as wonky as she likes, just put her in the White House where she can fix things because she knows the answers.

Hey Dog - thanks for the link - heading over now to catch up with you on this interview (had school last night so missed it).

Definitely agreed that mistakes were made - and TBO - I don't believe her either on the always knew TX would be important.

Thanks for the link.

That being said - Hillary still rubs me the wrong way. I think this is because she can be condescending and she often states her own case by belittling her opponents or their ideas. And also - I don't resent her as a woman - I resent her as a person who has it all. She started this campaign with all the power, connections and status - and honestly - I think it went to her head.
Posted by: warren | February 28, 2008 1:37 PM

Let's see... rubs me the wrong way
can be condescending
belittles opponents...

Must be Barack Obama

Flatus, I suspect that more than a few of the Framers actually voted fot that law, which certainly argues for your point about the Framers' intent, however calling it settled law overstates the case since it apparently has not been challenged, at least in the context of a presidential contest, since it was written. It is certainly settled in the sense that there has not been a decision to the contrary, but then again, there has not been a decision consistent with that view, either. I'd say it's a presumptively valid law.

Lush, then you married well.

Although...Dog...when she said we're going to have to start thinking about TX - it has been said that the Clinton campaign was on the ground in TX very very early...so maybe the it'll be over by Feb 5 was the spin but they knew it would be a battle.

Who knows? So much spin from all of these candidates...McCaina...I might throw up too.

"What is with the need to seem omniscient?"

How about a need to mend bridges? Do you think they both don't know what is going on out here. He's had earlier statements that hinted at "Protests" and has now backed off any language of that nature.

Oh Drudge has certainly shown the level of his ethics. It's okay to endanger lives as long as you get a scoop. http://www.drudgereport.com/

Reminder: Any of you ladies still available and interested, tomorrow is your day

http://jdurward.blogspot.com

Gentlmen don your track shoes.

Wendy,

You are correct, because of the 90's she will always be a greater subject of venomous talk than Obama. To steal my favorite album title, That is the Reality of Her Surrondings.

I must disagree with your close to your most recent post. Nancy Pelosi reaching speaker of the house is a bigger accomplishment than being a viable candidate for the white house, in my opinion

Lush, Pogo, you are both winners!!! I wonder how long it will be before some campaign usurps that song for their purposes?

Send me your email to gedpik at hotmail

I guess I don't understand why anyone would think that HIllary ever thought anyone other than Obama would be her chief rival or that Texas would not be important. We certainly can't know what she thought about the other candidates - to my knowledge she never said. And Texas' importance is consistent with the (boneheaded) big state strategy, although I'll grant you that until the last few weeks no one knew that it would become as important as it is. Had the Super Tuesday target that has widely been attributed to her been hit, Texas would not have held the importance to her campaign that it now holds, but only pundits and Obamites who are interested in depicting her campaign as a failed one before it actually is have stated what her campaign strategy re: Texas was.

Bear

Nancy Pelosi getting where she is had more to do with the Democratic moderates being shut out and seats being won by Republicans. As the tide has turned and more Democrats being elected they are coming back, but most of the Dems still in the house are much father left that the average members of the party and come from the most left leaning districts.

She is a very sharp lady, but got her seat with family money and the Speakership with the assistance of winners of campaigns she has financed. Now she is being far too careful so as not to rock her pretty little power boat. I'll be happier when, I hope, we have a Democratic President and House so that there isn't so much compromise going on.

"She is a very sharp lady, but got her seat with family money and the Speakership with the assistance of winners of campaigns she has financed."

Jamie - would I be so off base if I said if Hillary won the Presidency - an argument along similar lines could be made. The Clintons have BOTH money and power.

Jamie,

I don't disagree with a word you said. I would also think that for a grandmother, she looks pretty good too!

The fact remains that she is the first woman to get into the conversation for right of succession to the president. She only has Dick in front of her and that is better than just being a viable contender in my eyes...

Obamadroids Frantic: Attack Canadian Media NAFTA Story

"So one person for the right Canadian government — a single official — issues a public denial to Politico’s Ben Smith, and that’s it? Even though the entire Canadian media are all over this story? Nationwide? And it’s the top story in Canada?

Then there’s a tip-off in Smith’s earlier story on this that quotes an Obama spokesman: “‘The news reports on Obama’s position on NAFTA are inaccurate and in no way represent Senator Obama’s consistent position on trade,’ says Obama spokesman Bill Burton.” The word INACCURATE is a tip-off. The Obama campaign has not said the Canadian news stories, across the nation of Canada, are a lie. Has not said that."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/02/28/obamadroids-frantic-attack-canadian-media-nafta-story/#more-1652

"Why must your venom be spewed using curse words? "

Lame.

GORDO,

I don't know if others here agree but you have ZERO credibility with me. If you came out and said George W. Bush was an F'ing retard, I would think him to be a Mensa. If you said the sky was blue, I would assume it to be black.

I don't agree very often with Fry Daddy but because of his time on this blog and because he is able to hold normal conversations with people, I at least hear him out when he is making a point.

I can say that I have learned a lot from the regular posters here. All I have learned from you are the lengths people will go to for attention

warren, I'm sure jamie will pipe up, but she and Bill didn't get to power because of their money - they got to money because of the power they worked hard and long to ascend to, an did not buy their Gov., Pres. or Senate seats by financing the campaigns of others. Therein lies a tremendous difference between them and Pelosi.

Warren,

They didn't start with it. She did. There is no way you can conduct a campaign in this country without money and connections. The Clintons climbed the ladder the hard way and had some dicey companions on the way. Nancy used family business connections and her checkbook. Unlike Feinstein, she never held a city of state office but rather financed her way up to the top of the state democratic party before running for Congress.

It is a classic example of getting the best government money can buy. She just happens to be a really smart, pretty grandmother ... something else money can buy. :-)

Obama's Team Not Denying Canada Report on NAFTA

"When contacted, an Obama aide basically delivers a non-denial denial, as you can see in the video. Obama keeps his promises? What kind of blathering is that? When you think about Obama's moves on Exelon, rewriting legislation for them, juxtaposed against him telling Iowa voters tougher legislation had passed, instead of the truth, I've done enough research on the guy to know when smoke is being blown for votes. Obama's team is not denying the conversation CTV is reporting and it's quite plausible the criticisms would only be campaign rhetoric, and should not be taken at face value, and to add, because Obama has no intention of doing what he's campaigning on with regards to NAFTA. Obama welshing on his pledge to take public financing for the general election also comes to mind. It's not like Obama hasn't said one thing then done another before.

The Clinton campaign, however, said no one directly or indirectly contacted the Canadian government. But in addition, the Clinton campaign said that they give the Canadian government "blanket immunity" to reveal who supposedly called them. I've confirmed both with the Clinton campaign.

One question will nail this story down

Will Barack Obama's team also give "blanket immunity" to the Canadian government, as Cinton's team did, to release the name of the person who called them to say the criticisms are only campaign rhetoric, so don't take them at face value?"

http://www.taylormarsh.com/

See, bear, here's where you and I disagree - I read the stuff Gordo posts - It doesn't seem any more or less valid or interesting than anyone else's stuff. Plus he links frequently to Taylor Marsh, and I'd just love to... well, never mind.

Patsi:

I like when you curse ; )

What a month this is turning out to be in this democrat primary race.
Camp Clinton have raised $35 m.
The whisper is that Camp Obama have raised circa $ 62m.
Understand camp Obama will be rolling out another $3m ad campaign over the weekend.

Plus he links frequently to Taylor Marsh, and I'd just love to... well, never mind.

Posted by: pogo | February 28, 2008 2:45 PM

"...just love to sit down and learn more about radio broadcasting and her unique and challenging perspectives regarding this political season..." - Pogo :-)

Whether or not the Canada/Obama contention is true doesn't matter so much as that all of us absolutely must accept that the last seven years of our Administration and its shills talking out of both sides of their mouth is enough. No more!

in four days it is John Carter Cash's birthday, son of Johnny Cash and June Carter Cash. One of the most beautiful recordings Johnny did, was his last one, I believe. Poignant, heartbreaking and powerful.

HURT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO9dbmJ_2zU

Yeah, ET, that's it. How'd you know?

Pogo, I could just sense your upstanding nature and inquisitive mind. :-)

dog, that may be. I'm not aware of such things, but I'm pretty simple when it comes to the internets.

Who you calling an angry woman, Bri?

His mother?

ET:

The responses from Clintonites could be easily programmed.

"I know you are but what am I."

"Nope - still not enough experience for me - not convinced."

"Details details and more details please."

"Clinton said it first."

"Hope sucks!!"

"You are a sexist pig!!"

Just kidding peeps - I'm off to the gym.

Guilty.

My nephew Jake(age 3) is a huge Johnny Cash fan(thanks to his Dad)!!

Oh Lordy...to hear this child sing "Ring of Fire" (both)breaks my heart and makes me LMAO!!

Think sweet, innocent 3yo voice(or Elmer Fudd)!!!

WUV.... Is A Bournin Ting
And It Makes A Fiewy Wing
Bound By Wild Desiwer
I Fwell Into A Wing Of Fiwer....

LOLOLOLOL(snort)LOLOLOLOL!!!

Yep and growling with every stabbed key stroke on the fund raising web site.

And that's really hard to do with one finger in the air.

warren, likewise for Obamites

"I know you are but what am I."

""Experieince is overrated, look at GHWB."

"He has details - go look at his website."

"I agree with what Senator Clinton just said."

"Hope is all we need to inspire the American people to accomplich the change they want."

"That's racist."

Just kidding. Have a good time at the gym.

I hope our soldiers shoot straighter.

CTV Stands by NAFTA Story

I called CTV to verify the story, especially given the Obama campaign's cries that it's "inaccurate." After asking Greg McIsaac of CTV if they were sticking by their story, he quickly called me back with verification. The facts of our story are accurate.

Then why are the traditional media and Obama blogs pushing Obama's side of the story that the CTV story is "inacurate?" That an embassy spokesperson alone proves the reporting is wrong? Back channels exist, which means skepticism should apply, especially with CTV standing by the facts of their story:

Will the journalistic stenography on behalf of Mr. Obama ever end? "

http://www.taylormarsh.com/

Word is that Camp Clinton have accepted that the Texas firewall has crumbled and they are trying desperately to hold up Ohio.

Word is that Camp Clinton have accepted that the Texas firewall has crumbled and they are trying desperately to hold up Ohio.

Posted by: Vivian | February 28, 2008 3:37 PM

two words: Ralph Nader

I know that I bought "Politics of Life" at Barnes&Noble.

I can't remember where I bought "Attack the Messenger", but I am thinking B&N, too.

dog

ASMOF, I think I bought "POL" at the B&N in Springfield...but I could be wrong.

ok i agree he's a big loser... but if you don't support the democratic nominee, it's better to toss a vote bone his way than vote for McCain which was my original thought....

The Chosen One

"Then Obama ignored black community issues in his district, to avoid being the black candidate. “Obama’s aloofness on key community issues for years frustrated Lucas and many other South Siders. Now they believe he was just afraid of making political enemies or being pigeonholed as a black candidate.

Barack only won his Senate seat in 1996 by finding petty flaws in the other candidates petitions — HE PULLED A HARVARD ON THE COMMON FOLKS."

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/

actually although that was meant as a dig at me, I have to compliment you ... it's pretty funny... and I totally didn't catch it... My boyfriend told me to say something I won't repeat but I really don't take is seriously. It put a big grin on my face...

T

Bear wrote: "Nancy Pelosi reaching speaker of the house is a bigger accomplishment..."

Bear I do agree on this to some extent. Nancy Pelosi becoming speaker did move us forward and yes...definitely went a long way towards denting the patriarchal power structure. I will say then...we should combine these two events as I believe Hillary's candidacy has brought back up to the surface a lot of issues we weren't necessarily confronted with when Pelosi became speaker and so the issues we are now going to discuss - and hopefully continue to discuss-may help to dent even further the patriarchal power structure. So yes - these are both significant events and just in the past couple of years.

I don't want to look too much into the future. But unless something happens and Pelosi somehow becomes president or vice president...if she only remains speaker...I have a feeling history will remember Hillary as the woman kicking down the door of the old boys club rather than Pelosi. But who knows...

From the Rasmussen Ohio polls of Feb 26th:

Just 16% of Likely Democratic Primary Voters believe the North American Free Trade Agreement—NAFTA—is good for America. Fifty-five percent (55%) say the trade agreement negotiated by the Clinton Administration is bad for the nation.

By a 53% to 14% margin, voters believe that Obama opposes NAFTA while there are mixed perceptions on where Clinton stands. Thirty-five percent (35%) believe she favors NAFTA, 31% believe she opposes it and 34% are not sure. This issue is critical in a state that has lost thousands of manufacturing jobs. Politically, these lower-income voters have generally been supportive of Clinton throughout the primary season.

NAFTA has been a disaster and most of us knew it all along. But before NAFTA, corporations were already sending jobs to other countries , in oppressive working conditions. The Multinational corporation has become the greatest threat to the whole concept of the "nation state"...

off to bed... g'nite all..

This points to the actual ctv.ca article on NAFTA and Obama:
http://tinyurl.com/3asdhw

The article is bad for him in Ohio (where an Obama win is improbable) and good for him in Texas (where an Obama win is probable).

Could it be that it was a plant by his campaign?

"A November 2007 Politico report indicates that Obama has repeatedly “dodged questions…about releasing papers from his eight years as an Illinois state senator, and his campaign has not answered records requests from the state’s two largest newspapers.”

Still, the publication noted, “Obama’s campaign has prodded Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) to make available additional records of her communications during her husband’s presidency.”

Later, during a Meet the Press appearance, moderator Tim Russert asked Obama about the missing records. “We did not keep those records,” Obama said at first.

Then Obama changed his answer, beginning with the statement, “Well, let me be clear.” He went on to say, “The stuff that I did not keep has to do with, for example, my schedule. I didn’t have a schedule. I was a state senator. I wasn’t intending to have the Barack Obama State Senate Library. I didn’t have 50 or 500 people to, to help me archive these issues.”

http://bigheaddc.com/

Jamie:

3:25 post

ROTFLMAO

"The Multinational corporation has become the greatest threat to the whole concept of the "nation state"... "

Roller Ball anyone? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BErJLzCVVdQ

HRC is increasingly taking questions from reporters in Ohio and confronting the NAFTA issue frontally.
This is a good strategy be it may be too late.
She should have been doing this from after New Hampshire.

GORDO

In Florida I committed the absolute minimum required by state law to writing or to a computer file. There are so many good reasons for being a record keeping minimalist.

Vivian wrote: "By a 53% to 14% margin, voters believe that Obama opposes NAFTA"

If this Canada story (true or not) has any legs - doubtful but who knows - will be interesting to see the same poll come Monday.

Wendy

Thank you thank you ..... bowing to pick up roses thrown by madly applauding crowd. :-)

When I think NAFTA, I think Fender guitars. They have two main manufacturing sites, one in Corona, CA and one in Ensenada, Mexico. Much is made of the "American Standard" and American "Series" Fenders, which cost roughly twice what the Mexican versions of the same guitars cost. One of the guys at the guitar shop where Li'l Pogo takes lessons, which is a Fender dealer, told me he knows a guy who used to work in the CA plant who he saw at the NAMMS convention last year. They were discussing the two versions of the guitars, and the guy from the Fender factory said that he Mexican Fenders were guitars made in Mexico by Mexicans while the American Fenders were guitars made in America by Mexicans. Don't know exactly what this has to do with NAFTA, but the discussion of NAFTA reminded me of this.

"He (Obama) would raise income taxes on wealthiest and their capital gains and dividends taxes, raise corporate taxes and give $80 billion in tax breaks mainly for poor workers and elderly."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23392288/

check out the photo.....

He wants to double tax people's gains and dividends - oh that's fair - NOT !

Jamie,
I am not one of the madly applauding crowd.
I support HRC , think she is a very good Senator for my State and think she is a strong supporter of the african American community of which I am a member

McCaina, Heheheh, Where's the halo?

I don't understand the double tax gains and didvidends comment - care to explain?

jamie, I'll wildly appluad and throw roses for vivian - hilarious.

"'I took all the beatings and insults and endured all the racist comments over the years from nasty Republican committee chairmen," State Senator Rickey Hendon, the original sponsor of landmark racial profiling and videotaped confession legislation yanked away by Jones and given to Obama, complained to me at the time. "Barack didn't have to endure any of it, yet, in the end, he got all the credit."

that's a shame...poor guy...

http://www.houstonpress.com/2008-02-28/news/barack-obama-screamed-at-me/

:-D

Well, maybe double isn't the correct %, but when you make money it is taxed as income, then that money is , say invested in stocks, or other possible investments....the money you make on your already taxed money gets taxed again.

The problem with this and the other tax increases, is that people with money do not have to invest at all if they do not want to. They will find better deals in other countries, hide income other ways, etc.

I am not one of those people , but I know a lot of them, and I can see why in a global market this may not be the right approach.

The only country out there with a higher corporate tax rate then USA is Japan.

Just saying, if you want to get the dollars into the US economy, it's best not to penalize the people who have the means and who have more choices then ever before.

"Obama has spent his entire political career trying to win the next step up. Every three years, he has aspired to a more powerful political position."

mmhmmm

NAFTA and the Canadian Connection

" Obama has been caught in an unfortunate and difficult political situation. It appears that a senior official from the Obama campaign contacted Michael Wilson, Canadian ambassador to the United States, and told him that the Senator was going to harshly criticize NAFTA during his race against Clinton in Ohio, but added: “Don’t worry… it’s just campaign rhetoric…Don’t take it seriously”.

This report has caused major waves among the Canadian press and it will probably soon resonate in the United States. At this time, the Obama campaign has yet to negate that the above communication took place. If the Media chooses to inform the Ohio and Texas voters about this, they will maybe realize that they have been duped by Barack Obama’s campaign promises and apparently dishonest tactics. If this is announced loudly enough by the Clinton campaign and news sources, the probability of a Hillary Clinton victory could become a dramatic reality."

http://savagepolitics.com/

"A close examination of Obama's first campaign clouds the image he has cultivated throughout his political career," wrote Tribune political reporters David Jackson and Ray Long. "The man now running for president on a message of giving a voice to the voiceless first entered public office not by leveling the playing field, but by clearing it."

ouch.

Vivian,

I was one of the ones donating to Senator Clinton. The raised finger was not directed at the other candidate but rather at all the people I felt had treated my preferred candidate unfairly.

McCaina,

The whole idea behind taxation should be to tax behavior you wish to discourage and to credit behavior you wish to encourage. What a large number of people deplore is when behavior that injures others is given a tax benefit.

Given all the media bias - shouldn't Clinton watch what she says to avoid falling into traps.

A "trade timeout" seems to be just like Obama saying he is "going to put the smackdown on NAFTA" or "we need to chill out with the trade agreements."

I don't maybe it is because I don't have any rugrats. Btw, I laugh everytime I read "Lil Pogo..." Hah!

I mean "I don't [know] maybe..."

I appreciate that concept and understand it, but why would you penalize someone who has saved and invested, or started a corporation and employed workers here in the US?

Many US corporations are actually small to medium size entities...not all Exxons.

I understand about the tax breaks to reward companies that go abroad, those should be eliminated.

McCaina, You meant to say he would double the rate on the return on investments? OK - I wasn't sure what you meant. Obama may very well be considering doubling the capital gains and dividend rates (although I know a lot less about dividend and tax rates on thems than capital gains). But you aren't taxed twice on the income used to buy the investment (a common misconception - understood by Republicans but paraded out with predictable frequency nonetheless) - you are taxed when you earn it, but the price of the investment is your basis, which you aren't taxed on, when you sell it. You are taxed on the gain in value of the investment vehicle when you sell it, but that's at a lower rate than most investors' marginal tax rate - which was a tax policy decision designed to encourage such investment (and which certainly benefits the wealthy more than the working stiff). The arguments about the priorities that policy reflects are legion, and heated, and are typically pretty predicatably aligned with the two political parties.

Well, I gotta go - later dudes and dudettes.

McCaina:

Taxes are not penalties. We have penalties - those are called fines - and people pay them when they break the law or don't pay their taxes.

Tax is basically everybody pitching in for the common good - and even the wealthy benefit from programs such as the military.

And no - I don't have a problem if the uber-rich have to pay a bit more since many of them have more money than they can spend anyways.

warren, I chuckle every time I write it. :-)

Here is the beauty of this NAFTA story Warren - it's now what they will or will not do about these trade agreements.

It's the shear joy of maybe just maybe Obama finally actually getting caught up in one of his big fat lies.

That's what the story is about...not NAFTA.

:-D

Headline: Dallas

So far I've seen 2 Obama bumper stickers and 1 Ron Paul yard sign only. Early voting ends today or tomorrow since THE primary is Tuesday. That's so Texas.

tt

I meant: "not what they will or will not..."

now was a typo

sorry

:-D

still keeping my fingers crossed Obama gets caught in his lie.

:-D

warren, we need a 'SMACK DOWN' on all the AFTA's.

tt

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/5551/obamaaj1.gif

Caption it

It hurts the nest eggs of middle class through the higher middle class and beyond. Buts that's okay if you are for it, I just wanted to point out some of what Obama has promised.

My caption for that picture:

"So you be kind to the children and be kind to seniors, and take the Kool Aid like they used to take in ancient Greece, and step over quietly and vote for Joshua."

"I am appalled but not surprised by this report, said IAM International President Tom Buffenbarger. Working families cannot trust a candidate who telegraphs his real position to a foreign government and then dissembles in a nationally televised debate."

ouch again

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20080228/pl_usnw/obama_telegraphs_pro_nafta_position

The Way Back Machine.

"Vidal Vs.Buckley: Part 1 (1968)"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXLTDUPJqsU&feature=related

"Vidal Vs.Buckley: Part 2 (1968)"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AzjZrtqCIw&feature=related

tt

Glo-bama

"WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY AND KENNETH MINOGUE part 1"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CIOSkrfRC4&feature=related

Part 1 of 6.

http://www.youtube.com/user/DISCUSSIONS

Key Words: IDEOLOGY MARXISM CAPITALISM OPRESSION REVOLUTION FREEDOM LIBERATION

tt

"why would you penalize someone who has saved and invested,"

There are a few things I would tax and a few I would credit. First income is income. Now if an investment is in a company that provides jobs for Americans and just sits there with the return just reinvested without changing hands, then I would leave it alone. Once it becomes liquid again (extraction of interest, sale of stock, death etc) then after a credit to allow for inflation from time of initial investment, I would tax those profits unless they are turned around into another investment that benefits other workers.

Companies should certainly receive credit for providing what otherwise would have to be paid for by general tax funds (i.e. health insurance). It is usually more cost effective for an individual to do what a bureaucracy would otherwise have to handle. This is one of the reasons that a large pool companies can buy into (ala the Clinton health plan) will cause rates to drop. Exception (cheapest of all would be single payer, but that could put thousands out of work which would probably be worse).

Companies that send jobs out of the country should be taxed as if they were foreign when products are brought back into the country. An American company that creates jobs in another country in order to provide jobs there where they hope to sell the product without cutting jobs here should not be penalized since this can prevent greater problems (i.e. illegal immigration)/ That was supposed to be the idea of those corporations on the Mexican side of the border. Unfortunately, the American companies got greedy and started moving more jobs south than sales there warranted and then bringing the finished products here while laying off thousands.

Tax policy is always difficult and there is always some politician standing around going but but but ... in favor of whatever industry is paying for his or her next campaign.

Now taxing individuals. When the people who possess 95% of the nation's wealth pay less than 70% of the nation's bills, then something is severely out of whack particularly since those bills don't cover necessary infrastructure and the health and well being of the average salaried worker.

Wendy:

My "time out" comment was not in response to the whole Canda-NAFTA issue - just a random thought I had at the gym...

NEW THREAD

This is worth the watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBrDzZCOQtI

Hey Warren

OK LOL

Hope you had a good workout...sad that you're thinking about this at the gym...

NEW THREAD

if Obama is truly aligned with the muslims,then we are in real trouble.Once he is in WH he will have access to all top secrets.Then we will be destroyed from within.They won't have to fly planes into towers.He should be thoroughly investigated.Especially since he has been linked with all of these muslim nut cases