Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

From previous thread

Sheila is usually the one who tries to pour a little oil on the troubled waters though even she who is the most peaceful of creatures has gotten a little perturbed when Obama is not loved as much as she thinks he should be. :-)

It's why we sometimes call her the hall monitor.

Sooooo close....

Oh Craig, stop it! People are starting to talk. And I think Bill is getting jealous.

xoxo
Hil

Craig,

It could well have to do with the Clinton and Edwards' health care plans being more compatible. That was the major focus of his work as an attorney, politician, private citizen, and candidate.

The Obama plan has more holes than swiss cheese for the insurance companies to slip through.

From previous thread:

Diva: "I was phone banking for Hillary voters in Washington State and I heard from older voters who didn't want to have to take a ferry to go caucus. Why were these caucuses held so far away from these voters?"

I just heard a caller on Seattle radio say that she had to drive 15 miles to go caucus. Others at the caucus had to drive as far as 25 miles.

How did this happen? In Iowa the caucuses are very near your home...I have never heard of having to go this far to caucus, especially in an urban area.

No dog'd eye -- no real details except to say that they would not vote Dem in the general. It was in the Tennessean's running exit polling on line the day of the primary. I know one guy, a Repub, who hates all the candidates....and said he was going to vote for Hillary....when I asked him if he'd be there in the general he said no. I asked him to stay out of our primary then.

I'm betting Edwards endorses Clinton.... with a very carefully timed annoucement.

dog's eye -- I am concerned because I haven't heard a word from my friend. She's been pretty much in touch until now. And nothing on the daughter's web site. They were to get the verdict on Friday so I fear they got bad news.

" the IRAQ WAR is the REAL issue in this race!"

I think that "they are coming to kill us" is going to be the issue. Romney threw down that gauntlet in his last speech. The Republicans know that there are millions of people who -- no matter what they say about Iraq -- believe their lives are in constant danger from "Islamo Facists" and will vote accordingly. We will see external threats, real or not, and security alerts close to the election. In the end, that's what I think it will be about. And I'm just not so sure where the American public really is on this. I think we have become a nation open to mass hypnosis and hysteria.

Look, I appreciate your willingness to point out bad stuff that the media does to Clinton.

But this is just plain silly. They shared a love for "railing against lobbyists and standing up to Hillary Rodham Clinton"?!?

That's one stylistic similarity, and the fact that neither of them are Hillary.

That's it? That's the reason for you to pretend that it was a shoo-in for Edwards to endorse Obama?

Come on, this is Village-level reasoning in an effort to manage the expectations game.

Doing it to make Hillary look good isn't any better than doing it to make her look bad.

http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home

Hi Craig,
How is your foot? That was a big foot. haha
I hope Edwards goes with Hillary. He can head up the health care problem.
There had to be a big problem with the caucuses. Hillary should have taken at least a few?
Again Obama is all words with no substance. We need substance.
Go Hillary

"open to mass hypnosis and hysteria."

This opens up a sociological question. Now I know that every generation has its "dead celebrity causes riot" events, but it seems as if in the last 20 years things have just gotten too weird with the lighted candles, messages, cards and flowers piled on a shrine. What is going on? Is it a failure in education, a fear of the modern age that puts more emphasis on talimans and religion, an influx of other more emotional cultures? Or perhaps just TV coverage of the latest "best pictures" events?

MSNBC (and others) are saying the Edwards/Obama meeting has been cancelled.....maybe it's not a given he'll go with Obama.

HRC ad
aimed at the young voter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA8Wy51Ionk

Comments?

Jack

Wait...is that true that the call with Obama was less detailed and he was being terse...or are you speculating?

If you are speculating you are feeding into my theory that Obama is arrogant and a jerk which wouldn't be fair because I'm really struggling with that.

I'm not sure how to read that part of your post

:-/

Gidg, it's certainly not a given, although I have to repeat, I think John will eventually endorse Barack. Call it a feeling.

jamie, I wonder, too, about those shrines. I can't imagine putting stuffed animals, flowers,candles, and cards out for someone I never met. Just like I wonder about the crosses and wreaths placed at fatal accident sites. The last thing I want to do is remind myself ofte spot a loved one died every time I pass it. Hell I've even seen vinyl cutouts on car windows commemorating the death of a family member. I really don't understand it.

Burrito

I'm not so sure...Friday Elizabeth Edwards was less than sympathetic about the Chelsea Clinton remark - she had a funny look on her face like...give me a break Hillary - even though the words that came out of her mouth were mo cautious.

I'm still sticking with my question from the last thread to Craig...has Edwards lost his moment. That one poll from WI looks like maybe no as there are a lot of Edwards supporters on that and undecideds. An Edwards endorsement could swing WI.

I just saw something that said Clinton was ahead in the polls in Rhode Island! Yipee

OK - it's Rhode Island I know.

I've seen successful GOTV campaigns and Washington looked to me as if the Clinton campaign pretty much left it up to the local activists who acted as if this time was going to be like every other time. They got completely blindsided by the sheer size of the number of people at the Caucus.

Even more than the old folks, they should have had every union organizer out making sure that there was a bus or group of drivers for every caucus site.

Jamie: Yes, they need to get out more than just the elderly. I just use it as an example since I personally transported older folks to my caucus. The Clinton campaign really dropped the ball in the caucus states.

Jamie:

You should have been named the new campaign manager of the Clinton campaign ; )

Wendy, Rhode Island has as many electoral votes as Maine and has 21 delegates. They all do count, don't they? That's what I hear.

Wendy, make that 32 delegated for RI

Pogo

Oh...thanks...then I repeat Yipee - Hillary is ahead in RI

Here is the Rhode Island poll. It is a March 4 primary
which doesn't help with tomorrow's states.

http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/rhode-island.html

Wendy,

Don't discount Rhode Island because it's a small state. Next to Massachusetts, that is the state the Clinton's do best in. A couple of years back, striking firefighters in Providence adjusted their picketing of the cities mayor so that Hillary could attend a party fundraiser and not have to worry about crossing their line.

If she does not get 60% of the vote in that primary, I would be shocked and it would be a major disappointment for her side.

She has been endorsed by every major Democrat in that state except by Rep. Patrick Kennedy and the AG Patrick Lynch. If I am not mistaken, Mr. Lynch's brother is a Clinton supporter.

Obama's only connection to the state is the fact that his Brother in Law is the Mens Basketball coach at Brown. While I think he will poll even to her in Providence, I see HRC doing as well as she did in the areas of RI that border MA.

This is actually the one I saw - of course - it's not one of the major polls.

http://www.projo.com/news/content/projo-20080211-brownpoll___.b10d88a1.html

I'm just happy she's ahead somewhere

well, if Obama doesn't sweep the Chesapeake primary, he will have defied all the prognosticators. There's plenty more states out there and lots of delegates to try and lay claim to.

Daddy duties call - later, all.

The Clinton Campaign needs to drop this Shuster thing. It is starting to come back and bite them in the butt, which is exactly what I was afraid of. Chelsea really needs to portray herself as a strong young woman who is not injured by the words of some pundit. The radio show I listen to just did an hour on it, Barbara Walters said on the view to drop it...it is backfiring. Badly.

Wendy, she's ahead in PA, OH, TX, WV, OR and a few other states, but there's plenty of time for Obamam to work on those.

Jamie,

I'm pissed off that Dwight hasn't written back to me from Washington State Democrats. Why can't they have the caucus and the primary too and have them at least divided the way the Repugs do it? This just sucks, and I am sorry if I sound like a broken record. I don't want to be a downer, but just when I think I can deal with Obama, a couple of his supporters get so arrogant and nasty that it makes my skin crawl. Really!

Bear...

Good to see you! I hope you're getting good medical advice and care. Take care, and get well....

Hey gang...for those of you who have missed the past, say, four weeks of Obama vs. Hillary acrimony on this blog...here's a great post from another blog that pretty well sums up all the arguments made on all sides here:

http://alexbalk.tumblr.com/post/26058843

"new campaign manager " Didn't totally manage campaigns, but did run the office and staff for campaign managers. Even that earned a T-Shirt and a much needed trip to the padded cell afterwards. :)

EuroTom: Yes, the primary ballot has made for a very confusing situation in Washington. I have heard many reports of people who thought they could do one or the other. Between that issue and the distance to the caucuses for many folks, it sounds like a real CF.

To further comment,

RI is one of the few states where Hillary's ground game would exceed any effort Obama has put forth in the election thus far. She is held in high esteem in the academic circles and there is a working class and ethnic vote that would skew to her favor since there is a large Dominican and Latin population there.

I don't know which way the Haitian population would tilt. That group, if anything like my family, would vote based on issues first.

There is a budding Laotian and Vietnamese population there in Providence and I have never been able to figure out their politics or whether they are a politically active group... I will offer insights as the information becomes available and between doctors visits.

Wendy-
Me too! She's also 10 points up in Texas (48/38) but 12% undecided...in Calif those undecideds broke her way, but...fingers crossed.
We have to have something to look forward too because tomorrow is looking like a blood bath.

Bear,

My hopes and good wishes to you. Take Care!

bear, I like your nickname. I am often called a "teddy bear" because of my size and shape. LOL... anyway, what's up? you are sick? We don't want that!

All this micro-targeting . . . they should have fired Penn a long time ago. That guy gives me the creeps.

He always has that plastic smile on his face while he is attempting to stick a knife in someone's back.

Pogo - have you seen a resent Oregon poll? I figured she'd get WV - man no place more blue collar than WV (my Dad is from WV - I'm hoping it goes her way).

Is Maryland a big state? I just did a google search on the size of Belgium (our country) and it says that we are about the size of Maryland.

I meant recent

sorry...i was too late to fix it

:-(

Yes I've been preparing myself for tomorrow knowing there are still a lot of states left out there...BIG states...BLUE states...blue collar states!!! Her little run is coming- Obama can have the end of Feb...Hillary will take March.

My dad lives in Oregon and the Obama ground game is powerful there as well.

Wendy, from your mouth to God's ears...

is Oregon a caucus or a primary?

I really believe Hillary would have done a lot better in a WA primary rather than caucus...I'm not saying a win but I am saying a closer race and more delegates. I think Oregon will be the same in some places.

Obama vs. Axelrod on Superdelegates

"So I guess Obama's strategy is to accept superdelegates who say "Obama's our guy," but if the voters say "Hillary's our girl," those superdelegates should think long and hard about how they approach the nomination and ignore the voters' choice. Got it"
http://www.taylormarsh.com/

Wendy we will know on 19 February

Oregon is a primary state.

I am just wondering if ANYONE here watched the news clip with Cher where she talks about Hillary, Barack and an ex-President? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C61nORMvObA

Gordo - thanks for the post. Yes the hypocrisy coming from the Obama camp has always been evident to me. I wouldn't mind so much if he was just your typical political hypocrite...but he presents himself as something different as being above it...then he's not. If he's going to play politics as usual...then play it...bring it on...I can live with that...but don't say you're not like the rest and then act like the rest. It's too transparent.

What cracks me up is that Clintonites are mad that people don't perceive Obama to be as politically devious as Billary. Talk about setting the bar low.

Remember that point in the (SC?) debate when Edwards went after Obama for not voting in the Senate and voting "present" 130 times as an Illinois legislator? Edwards was really perturbed at BHO railing at how BHO ducked making the tough decisions, saying "That's why you are elected! To make the tough decisions!" Maybe Edwards is remembering that and it's giving him pause before throwing hi support to Obama.

Ally --- I don't know why the caucus locations were so far away for some Washington voters. My guess is that outside Seattle and other urban areas, WA is a very rural state.

In Virginia that could happen too. We don't caucus by precinct -- we caucus by local Democratic committee, one caucus site per county. Depending on where that caucus site is, people would easily have to drive more than 20 miles to vote.

Virginia caucus?

Hillary Pollster Mark Penn: Obama More Likely To Suffer Fate Of John Kerry Or Al Gore

The "GOP attack machine," Penn suggested, "skewed the perceptions of such distinguished public servants as Al Gore and John Kerry" in a way that left perceptions of them "out of touch with reality."
Penn said that Hillary has "withstood" this process, while Obama would find that his independent support "would evaporate relatively quickly once he faced the Republicans." Penn added that the GOP "is already playing the national security card against Obama."
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/hillary_pollster_mark_penn_hil.php

one more gooper gone

Source: Shadegg to Retire
Monday, Feb. 11, 2008; 5:32 pm

Rep. John Shadegg (R-Ariz.) will announce this evening that he will retire from the House upon the conclusion of his current term, according to a well-placed Republican source.

alpha WTF are you talking about? American politics are corrupt... If you think Obama is above that, wake up... it's time to have some coffee and do a reality check.

Roadside shrines -- I don't have a problem with them at all. When people experience a loss, whether it be for a celebrity or a relative, the grief can be comforted by seeing that others have also expressed their sense of loss. The act of creating a memorial can be healing. No memorial is trivial -- each one is an expression of a life come to an end and the empty space in the lives of those left behind.

Pogo, even if there isn't a shrine next to the place where a loved one was killed, do you think for moment that the family forgets where that life was ended? Rest assured it's never forgotten.

Bear - I see you are having medical difficulties. I wish you the very best and I'll be thinking about you.

Colleen

Diva: These were suburban Seattle callers...not in rural areas. If anyone has more info on the Seattle area and the distance to caucus I would love to hear about it.

As far as taking a ferry, I can't imagine where you would have to do that. All of the island communities have some amenities. I think if you have a grocery store and a school you should have a caucus site!

I've been saying Shuster was just speaking in the vernacular of the day and making a point , innocently, illustrating how the Clintons are using Chelsea.
I'd say about 4 out 5 people tell me I'm insensitive as Shuster and we both should be banned to Siberia.
Oh well, so be it...I suppose the men out in Cal who fix cars up for poor young hoopdee drivers will hafta call their TV show " Fix Up My Ride".
Then there's John McCain, mean-spirited crazy son of a bitch (no offense old-Mom McCain...just a generic S.O.B.---not calling you a female dog)---remember what HE called Chelsea? :

http://www.attytood.com/2008/02/the_worst_thing_thats_ever_bee_1.html

Gore and Kerry were not strong in terms of likability.

The way Obama connects with voters - we will interpret attacks on him like attacks on us. Be afraid GOP.

EuroTom: Just watched the Cher video. Love her. Love the shoes. Love the bag. Love Cher.

I BRAKE FOR POLAR BEARS
or, as a famous blogger wrote, "If that damn bear gets any cuter I'm moving there!"

http://www.nuernberg.de/internet/polarbear/

Is anyone watching Tucker? Who or what did he call a slut?

Warren, this "connection" is so media generated, that's what bugs me. All of a sudden Teddy Kennedy said "boo" and the MSM RAN with it! I think they'd make Attila the Hun seem like this likeable, teddybear of a man if he was running against Hillary. And once the MSM picked up on it, people get manipulated by the buzz that was created. I bet if you really asked the everyday Obama supporter what exactly he stood for they wouldn't know.

I am a pessimist and it's time to sleep.

good night.. and I don't mean to rain on anyone else's parade.

Inspiring Kool & The Gang song from 1993 called "Unite". There is no video for this song. It effectively uses samples from MLK's "I Have A Dream" speech.

http://www.last.fm/music/Kool%2B%2526%2Bthe%2BGang/_/Unite?autostart

Cool Ally, she's my favourite. I loved what she said about politics. LOL...

Dex, ditto - the Shuster debacle is much ado about nothing. Perhaps outrage could better be directed at dead soldiers, New Orleans, the homeless and starving children in America.

Craig, I am so upset with Tucker, what kind of a man is he? He is disrepectful of his guests, stretches the truth, tells half truths and takes things out of context and really just bad mouths everyone. Really turns me off to watch MSNBC.
Now he is nagging on Hillary saying that SHE is saying poor me. I HAVE never heard her say that in any shape or form.

Warren ---------

Will Obama still be likeable after the Repub Attack/Smear Machine has worked on him for months?

"This opens up a sociological question. Now I know that every generation has its "dead celebrity causes riot" events, but it seems as if in the last 20 years things have just gotten too weird with the lighted candles, messages, cards and flowers piled on a shrine. What is going on? Is it a failure in education, a fear of the modern age that puts more emphasis on talimans and religion, an influx of other more emotional cultures? Or perhaps just TV coverage of the latest "best pictures" events?"
________________

Jamie -- I'd be inclined to look at a series of causes including worsening education....in the meantime, I'll just quote the late great Frank Zappa:

"It's not getting any smarter out there."

EuroTom: And what she said made sense. She killed it.

Carol, I turned on the TV to hear the word slut coming from Tuckers mouth...........What was that all about?

Tom

You're right about Obama supporters not really knowing what he stands for. Did you see the Larry King with Will.I.Am, John Legend and America Ferrera?

Early in the interview America went with the Hillary has substance and not just slogans...which both Will and Legend took offense to.

Later a viewer who was about to graduate from college was wondering who she should vote for...who was going to do something about jobs and her future.

Will said she should vote for Obama because...he couldn't really answer...he then said...it's not just a slogan I believe him...and he left it at that.

At first Larry was going to pass on America but she insisted on answering. Her answers were of course talking points I realize that but she outlined specifics from Clinton's plan to help create green collar jobs and help students pay back loans who are willing to do public type jobs like teaching, nursing, research etc. It was choppy but she did a good job highlighting a few things...definitely better than I don't think it's just a slogan.

Divalicious

"When people experience a loss, whether it be for a celebrity or a relative, " I think there is a difference between loss of someone personally close and known as opposed to traipsing off to sob over someone you have never met. These cult like gatherings of bathos are something new and catered to by the media. Look at the whole wallowing in death with TV cameras logging every sob and shriek. There is almost something mentally irrational about the carrying on.

First Far North Dallas election sighting (in a terse, brutal fundamentalist area), a bumper sticker for Obama on a new, shiny, red Corvette, convertible - top was down.

tt

Euro Tom -- I can't watch the clip because of my old computer....sorry....

For what it is worth, Edwards during the last of the debates seemed to "side" with Hillary. I personally liked how he stood with her rather than against her. Both Edwards and Richardson have not given an endorsement. Again, what do they know that we do not know? At this time (and isn't it mostly about the timing?), I do not think an edorsement is forthcoming . I think endorsements are most effective, if at all, when the candidate drops out (like Guliani for McCain).

On another note, surprised to read about Hillary and McCain in a vodka drinking contest (Newsweek) in 2004 on a senate trip to Estonia (taxpayers expense?). This was before that lovely purple bottle -- Jim Hendrix vodka -- hit the market, for sure.

And in the previous thread, someone asked about scotch...I vote for a bottle of Pinch as it a groovy bottle shape and decent scotch.

Bear, sending positive thoughts your way. Fight it tooth and nail.

Wendy: I watched Larry King and I thought America rocked. She was so bright, so knowledgeable, so passionate and so detailed. I fell in love with her. I did sense some tension on the set and which mirrors some of the tension I see in these discussions. I hope that we are all able to come together in November!

tiptoe

Romney drives a red convertible.

alpha...."Billary" is getting on my last nerve. How would you like me to start calling your guy an "Obamanation"?

clever, Patsi...very clever!!

just a caution for all of us. Dirty and Rough Politics Ahead.

Is Clinton Campaign Stirring Up Maryland Jews Against Obama?

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/10/is_clinton_campaign_stirring_u/#more

Colleen

"the Shuster debacle is much ado about nothing." I think that it was a kind of "last straw" situation. The reaction would have been negative but a simple apology for using a word that still meant one thing to listeners that was not intended in the modern sense. It still was a crass, unwarranted remark but not on the level of the mcCain quote.

What was wrong was that the station had been so non stop constant Hillary bashing that the Shuster remark brought a deluge from the public down on the NBC president's desk.

I note that today, MSNBC has seemed a bit more chastened and even handed. Every Obama person has been matched with a Clinton person and fewer snarky anti Hillary remarks. I believe several people more than Mr. Shuster may have gotten an ear full.

Now Tucker is still a useless dweeb but that is another situation.

Patsi,

We're going to live in an Obamanation very soon, so go on ahead!

Ally

I noticed the same tension. I felt bad for America because she sat in the middle of the two - but I give them all credit they were ALL very polite and nobody stepped on anyone else. All three of them listened to the other talk before commenting.

Yes....I like it....Obama-nation....good catch Alpha!

Obamanation.. I like it.

dog...yes...I stand corrected adding the word some would have been more effective. I apologize for painting with too broad a brush.

Obomination is better spelling

Too Late Euro Tom. ;0) Too late.

Obama-nation is an Alpha catch.

Although I never use the term, "Billary"...I think it is kind of cute!! When I hear/read it...I always smile 8>)

Now, a pop-culture term that sends shivers down my spine is..."Barchelle"!!

I would much rather have "Billary" in the White House...instead of "Barchelle"

oh and alpha, you don't need to reply to this... I would just caution you to tone down the confidence to the point of arrogance. The nominee has not been chosen yet, so I think you are sipping the bubbly way too soon.

As the old adage says: "Don't count your chickens before they're hatched"

Sheila,

Ed Lasky is an extremist and if you look back at his other articles, you will see that he frequently praises and supports Republicans. He hates Soros who has been a major donor to Democrats. Check out some of his previous articles:

http://www.americanthinker.com/ed_lasky/

Bear,
My prayers are with you my friend. Since you don't take shit from anybody or anything, I'm sure you'll be back and good as new soon.

dnd

Obamadrama

I don't care about him Jamie, The Pamphlet is horrible and wrong though. Something to watch out for.

What role would Oprah play in the Obamanic White House? I am guessing "spiritual advisor". She certainly thinks she walks miles about the rest of us.

Tom - I agree - Obama and Obama supporters have the same problem with too much arrogance too soon. While the supporters won't hurt the campaign I think Obama himself may.

I am a USC Trojan...we have many reasons to brag about our football team...we were favored to win the last three national championships going into the season...we didn't...nuf said.

letters@msnbc.com
MSNBC/Microsoft-NBC
30 Rockefeller Plz
3rd Fl
New York, NY 10112
(212) 664-4444

Does microsoft own NBC?

I'm sure after the Campaign was over Maya Angelou would be magnanimous enough to volunteer for that role. She is manificent and authentic.

EuroTom

This might answer your question

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnL9HRLNxIA

This political season is making me paranoid....Tucker just said he thought Edwards would endorse HRC.....and I immediately think...is that good...bad....what he really thinks....what he wants us to think ....will it hurt Hillary...yikes!

BTW - dog - I meant SOME Obama supporters.

30 Rockefeller Place is definitely NBC's headquarters. I believe MSNBC is a duo project of NBC, owned by General Electric last I heard, and MSN.

Linda In Wis

no, not anymore. They have a small share though.

They dropped in 2004. They were losing too much money on MSNBC

You know, maybe all of this earlier primary and caucus vote wasn't such a great idea in retrospect.

I still believe the convention is where the dem race will be decided and the media will have us frayed by the time late August is upon us.

Obama-nation has a ring to it! ;0)

I just received this from Media matters.
Tell NBC News President Capus that the time for apologies has passed.

Sign the petition

http://mediamatters.org/action_center/capus/

Thanks for the feedback on microsoft. Does that explain some of the votes in Washington?

dog - I'll give you that one - the campaign was over confident in the early days. I know Hillary is tough but this will toughen her up even more - make her that much better of a president.

or as McCain would say "oh bom iran"

dog - I will also admit that for the most part the Obama supporters here are less arrogant and far more thoughtful...though I still think HE himself is. My problem is I keep reading the comments at Talking Points Memo - now that group IS very arrogant.

Linda In Wis,

having grown up in Washington and still heavy ties to the state,

Let me tell you....Washington is as singular and original in their thinking as Alaska.

No, they are very liberal and very very independent in their thinking.

Washingtonians would have been studying and stretching and eaking out what made sense to THEM.

I'm just curious. Did McCain and Clinton do vodka shots together before or after he called her daughter ugly?

or as McCain would say "oh bom iran"

Posted by: unlikely_burrito | February 11, 2008 7:02 PM

From one Obama Momma, That was CUTE!

Anyone have any tips as to how to get tickets to debates?

I will take the advice, all cable news is crap.

Anyone have any tips as to how to get tickets to debates?

Posted by: unlikely_burrito | February 11, 2008 7:11 PM

I have that answer. I was on the Kerry Campaign and did the Debate in Florida.

ALL of the tickets were given out by each party through the campaigns and VIPS for each party.

So you are out of luck.....unless you are a person with an inside. ;0)

Hey Wendy,

My undergrad and grad degrees are from UCLA, so must be natural enemies. lol

Tom, not arrogance. We in the Obama ranks know that we're fighting an uphill battle. We have to call more people (which I do every day and all of the other Obama friends I have do) about getting people out to vote. And we're excited about our candidate. So excuse us if we say that on a board that's overwhelmingly for HRC.

Dog's Eye: I have limited by MSNBC viewing significantly for the very reasons you mention. I still watch Dan Abrams but that's about it. The Morning Joe coverage on South Carolina primary day was just one of my last straws.

Alpha! You are on a role buddy!

ticket information for Cleveland debate

Ticket requests are already pouring in. CSU got 800 calls before noon Friday. The Wolstein center holds 13,00. But no decision yet how many tickets will be available.

When that information is available it will be on our website , WKYC.com. and Cleveland State's website (

Channel 3 President and General Manager Brooke Spectorsky provided the link between NBC and Cleveland State

Shelia thanks ... I have no insides :(

My Bust Kate,

must just be the General.

thanks KC

I agree on getting news from different sources. Catch someone on Charlie Rose - you can hear a whole conversation. Plus, most anyone you bump into has an opinion (or at least a few talking points).

I am sure PBS has transcripts of Mr. Rose - who is the best in the game.

Burrito,

Get on a campaign and be excited and work feverishly for your candidate, no matter who it is.

Its fun and its worthwhile with so many awesome people to bond with. No matter how many long hours. Better than sitting up in the nose bleed section at the Debates. ;0)

Either way I know it's not easy...That's the one I want... I have friends calling me...HA! like I have any connections... People are funny

I have offered to volunteer.... will see what happens

Warren, Dog,,,,,is it just me or do Obama supporters tend to watch more CSPAN and less MSNBC?

Could that be why we are generally happy? ;0)

I have offered to volunteer.... will see what happens

Posted by: unlikely_burrito | February 11, 2008 7:25 PM

You go girl!

Don't just offer, walking in that office and say, "Where's the Pamphlets?" ;0)

Sheila, that so-called Jack-Up-The-Jews campaign is bogus. First of all, there aren't enough Jews there to take that kind of a chance. Second, there have been several "slimes" -- ones that actually got reported about -- that were "attributed to Hillary's campaign and were later traced back to some right wing groups.

I hope the Obama folks don't think we on the other side sit around thinking, "Oh, my God! I got an anti-Hillary email! I bet it came from Obama!"

I repeat:

"It's not getting any smarter out there." Frank Zappa

"Obama-nation has a ring to it!"

I can't wait until you get your "O" THE PRESIDENT stickers for your cars.

I love MSNBC. I think it talks about the politics of politics. I know sometimes it is like a gossip show - but if you can cut through the bs - you can pick up on a lot of different views. They have some very opinionated people on that network - all of whom know this stuff inside and out.

I have a crush on Norah, get a kick out of Tucker (even though he is a total bastard) and kinda like Joe.

I also think Pat sometimes provides real insight into the cold heart of GOP politics - and he cracks me up too.

But I also watch CSPAN and CNN and of course FOX.

would that be a big "O" ?

Warren! You are a real live Political Junkie! lol You will go far on this blog!

Well it certainly is not helping me quit smoking ; )

Wait until after the General. I quit 1 1/2 years ago. I literally waited and cut down very slowly. But in 2004, you couldn't have wrestled them from me.

Do children of past presidents get secret service protection for life?

I kind of have a "girl crush" on Norah myself 8)

http://radio.weblogs.com/0107064/MyImages/norahodonnell.jpg

No Burrito,

But they get equal protection as their parents for 10 years after the end of the Office or until they are adults.

http://www.secretservice.gov/faq.shtml#faq2

just was curious

LL: this is my work computer - should I click on that link.

Thought I remembered this comment made by Edwards. As fast as this Primary is moving, he could very well endorse Clinton...or keep his first preference.

We'll see soon enough.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/01/the-edwards-end.html
The Edwards Endorsement
January 30, 2008 2:59 PM

Something to keep in mind about John Edwards and endorsing…

He has never come out and said he would endorse Barack Obama, but he has always made it clear that he preferred Obama's politics to Clinton's.

Before the Iowa caucus, he explained it this way to me: "One of them believes change is necessary and the system doesn't work, and the other defends the system."

Oh, yeah, warren...it's OK...just a semi-sexy pic of Norah...it could be a screen-saver for you!!

Therefore, President Clinton will be the last president to receive lifetime protection.

What a cool career would that be, I think it is perfect for my son.

All this hoopla about John Edwards' endorsement....does anyone think it would matter at this point?

No no - got a picture of Fiji. But I am due for an update.

I wouldn't put anything past Edwards. If he couldn't get something from Barack that Hillary was willing to give - he would put together quite an argument as to why he is endorsing Hillary.

Obama-nation has a ring to it!"

Is that where the Obamaniacs live?

Is she married?! What's that MSNBC address again?

Erin Burnett is the best warren, forget Norah... who ever. Mind you, I'm not trying to play match maker.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15838220/

Jamie! Probably. ;0)

warren,

Of course Edwards would go with the one candidate that would move his agenda forward. He'd be a fool to waste some good fuel.

But don't count Edwards out. His followers are too loyal and will follow his lead. So delegates and Edwards Supporters. Some of the most loyal of the lot....good trade ;0)

Warren....Nora just had a baby this last year.... lol

Erin seems boring.

at least compared to Norah!

warren....Norah is married...they just had twins not too long ago

just one thing about the pimp remark.. when shuster used it, he certainly wasnt using it in the 'pimp my car' definition.. he was using it in the old-fashioned definition..

she's smart & knows money & and wont allow herself to be played by the scum at MSnbc. Maybe too much to handle??

j/k

Clinton and Edwards need the majority Obama can bring to push any agenda through. I don't care how hard they fight and personally I am sick of all the fighting. (and it will be a fight because it is the polar opposite of what the GOP are talking about right now).

Once I realized these people were acting more like lawyers than public servants - I was on the change bandwagon before it even got on the tracks.

Well I hope she's happy.

Aren't they all lawyers?

Norah's husband

http://freshfarmmarkets.org/programs/chef_at_market.php?cmindex=6&cmgroup=t_v

Hah! Erin Burnett may be too much to handle, but I was thinking the opposite. I am only worried about my own economics. This is capitalism baby!

But I went to Catholic school - so I believe in charity and it is fun to contribute to Obama. Break out the checkbook Billary!

But I tell you one thing - the amount of money spent on these things is ridiculous. That money could be put to much more productive use.

Lucky man.

the system is broken, on that, I think we can agree

All the money, no kidding, there is a better way

she's lucky too....... he can cook! and likes to cook!

I think a little more than half of the Senate are lawyers and of course Bill Hill and Barack all are - those 3 are some of the best lawyers around.

But it drives me crazy when politicians often act as hyper-partisan advocates that refuse to see any side but there own. And all these trumped up and publicized investigations seem to take up more time than making laws.

Senator John Glenn endorses Senator Clinton

That's nice, I did not know he was still living.

Good for him.

Going to watch TV. Btw, no global warming in NYC tonight.

Does anybody know the latest poll numbers. The last one I saw was done on the 9th.

Maryland Rasmussen Clinton 31% Obama 57%
Virginia Rasmussen Clinton 37% Obama 55%

unlikely_burrito

Do you know who Dick Celeste has endorsed or if he has?

vadaryl,

I believe Talking Points Memo usually has polls in the right hand corner.

Don' t know how accurate, but they are there. ;0)

And.... Real Clear Politics.

If Obama wins tomorrow, Edwards will endorse him. It's got nothing to do with principle or the way he was treated. he WANTS TO BE VP, and would crawl across broken glass to do it.

What kind of man runs for president when his wife has cancer? A guy driven by blind ambition who will sacrifice anything. And I don't think his wife is brave. I think she's a doormat.

PaBu is on KO. (Check your Crawfordslist acronym dictionary.)

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/

No I do not know about D Celeste...

KGC -You must be from this area? Cle? or just really knowledgeable?

Okay ....or both. :)

Nash,

Your a naughty boy! Edwards wants it yes, but not over his wifes health. ;0)

I thought we gave up polls and cigarettes?

I am from Canton athough I don't live in the area now I keep up and I visit regularly since I have family and friends there. In 2004 I spent part of the election in Ohio.

ahhhhhhhhhh...there's vadaryl...the star of the Clinton Manassas town hall!!!

I got all swept up in the excitement of yesterday...I am volunteering for the 6-9am and the 4-7pm shifts(sign holding)in Manassas tomorrow.

Weather forecast.....snow, sleet and rain!!

What was I thinking????

I want to give up on the polls, with those numbers it's not even close.

for Kerry ...I assume... that was close. too bad they got the anti-gay-marriage initiative on the ballot that year + plus the youth vote did not deliver. we were disappointed.

Sheila: I'm just trying to get the Edwards people on my case. I was getting tired of getting abuse from just the Clintonites.

LOL @ "(Check your Crawfordslist acronym dictionary.)"

The pictures came out great

Va daryle - we all saw you - you looked really good on camera, and believe me that is not always easy. :)

a little music to calm the nerves

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nugGHt_NDQ

Jack

i am getting calls was that you I saw on TV

It got air time even tonight.

I know...I saw you on CNN!!

It's time to set this thing straight.
Shuster misspoke. I was not offended, and I was a big Bill Clinton supporter and even though I take exception to Hillary supporting the war all these years, right now I can't rule out voting for her...in other words I understand she had to cover her daughter's dignity, but she moved on, as should we...we either think the thing was trifling (like me) or a BIG DEAL (like a lot of you.)
But face it folks...WE know Shuster but 90% of Americans never heard of him , or couldn't place him, or tell ya if he was with CNN, msnbc, or al-jazeera, for that matter.
BUT, John McCain, who is running for president, made HORRIBLE comments about dear sweet Chelsea and he's getting a goddam pass! Here's David Corn's viewpoint:

http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25newsb.html

CNN has a four minute video of the rally called Virginia listens to Clinton*\

*again, today

Top Story over at NYTimes...

“She has to win both Ohio and Texas comfortably, or she’s out,” said one Democratic superdelegate who has endorsed Mrs. Clinton, and who spoke on condition of anonymity to share a candid assessment. “The campaign is starting to come to terms with that.” Campaign advisers, also speaking privately in order to speak plainly, confirmed this view.

funny

KGC- yeah things politically are better, but up here CLE it's a mess.

Crime, foreclosures, brain drain, high taxes for businesses.....it look really hopeless.

try this one http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/politics/2008/02/10/sot.clinton.whooped.up.update.cnn

Dexter

John McCain has said horrible things about a lot of people and gets a pass for all of them

But he is not pretending to be a journalist,

damn...Huckabee is on Larry King tonight, too?

I thought MLRO would have the entire hour!! Some of my friends and I have bets on how long it will take her to "misbehave".

He admits he is an ass. No doubt, he'll blame it on repressed anger about being a prisoner of war.

The georga peach pickers, BBQ rag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKzIDOJydtE

jack

People do not change...either they are basically decent and respectful or they are not!

Crime, foreclosures, brain drain, high taxes for businesses.....it look really hopeless.

Posted by: unlikely_burrito

that's a grim list. I thought Cleveland was having a lttle boomlet --has the Bush years crushed the forward momentum.

I got a perfect shirt for tomorrow, it says vote Hillary for President

I do think if she gets blown away tomorrow it could be all over.

Katy Crack: yeah-but..
Jesse called NY "Hymie Town" and it finished him.
Journalists snipe at pols all the time...it's their job....

Global mutli-national capitalism strikes at Valentines day.
From today's NYTimes.

"Rest assured, the global supply of that filler of heart-shaped boxes everywhere is not threatened. But the truth is perhaps more troubling for cash-strapped Lotharios, particularly in Germany, where authorities suspect that several major companies are conspiring to raise the price of chocolate."

(We don't need no stinkin' links.)

Dex..i didnt mean to imply that McCain should get a pass... I'm just tired of the same old crap from PMSNBC... McCain has one truly warped sense of humour.. i hope it becomes apparent as the campaign wears on..

Cleveland has shot itself in the foot so many times.... it's a shame. They have lost funds, there are not enough police in the streets, the downtown is empty.....there are traveler's advisories published in other states.....It's a mess.
1 in ten home are foreclosed...those homes have been stripped of the scrap metal....people are shooting each other, schools have violence, broken neck for one teacher, broken leg for another... and the latest is - heron in the school in the town next to where I live, which is considered an affluent suburb.

Vadaryl:
Bill could wear a T-shirt that said, "President for Hillary."

Well, re Ohio....all I know is that my daughter and her "mom's group" in Cincinnati are heading to the polls with their toddlers in tow to cast their votes for Hillary....and my granddaughter will be wearing a t-shirt that says, "One day a woman will be president."

dex

the media loves McCain he's a straight shooter
a maverick and that makes it ok to say the things he does. I'm with you. He should get called out for the stuff he says --they all should .
In 1998 when there was outrage over the janet reno is chelsea's father remark --it was justa joke..

apparently on republicans are allowed to tell jokes.

Thanks to lushlslinda I did get that seat.

That's a great clip, vadaryl!!

I saw your wife(Iris...right?)and Hilary, as I was leaving...I love the pic they got with HRC!! Wow!!!!

I am sure they got some good ones of you, too!! And I saw a photographer taking pics of your Hilary...he was from where?

heron = heroin

vadaryl...you deserved to have that seat!!!!

If Hillary is out of the picture does that mean the press will start unloading on their rising star.

ok.. i just got home.. which one on the CNN video is vadaryl?

re: Shuster "pimp" comment

Shuster is a smart-ass preppie hired by Dan Abrams, MSNBC fraternity president, and pledge master.

"Thank you sir. May I have another?"

The Washington Post but they never used the picture. Rats! C-Span showed her signing my wife's shirt. My daughter was blocked out. When she came around to me they ended their broadcast, but I did get to say hello to her.

OK...LK is on...

Yes, a woman will be President one day. But I am beginning to wonder if I will see the day.

lol nash.. lotsa towel-snappin goin on there..

it is so sad, I am amazed that the whole town hasn't been purchase by some foreign country. I mean we sit on the 11th largest source of fresh water.....in the whole world.

Our company is global so it doesn't hurt us, but as soon as our ties here are eliminated we are gone.

Unless things change..........And let me tell you "chanting " the words "change" or " yes we can" isn't going to get it done.

She was saying I need all the help I can get for Tuesday and she is not kidding she needs help!

ohhhhhhh..that is so cool, vadaryl!!!

I was wondering why HRC didn't get to all you guys immediately!!

Michele Obama live on Larry King for the hour now

tylenol

vadaryl is behind HRC's right shoulder....red sweater/white tee

Huckabee is going to be on Larry King, too.

I hope LK asks if she would vote for HRC!!

She did come to the back first but only the first row, I got caught on the chair and could not get to her, but when she came around she came back to the side and that's when I got to shake her hand and say hello. The secret service guy almost jumped in when he saw someone moving chairs around. It was me tripping on them.

We need a resurgence of old-style journalism for this campaign.
I can't say I approve , in the historical sense, of Mencken's hatred of anything he perceived as British or favoring anything Brit-like, but he sure as hell made it lively with his criticisms of pols. Here's an excerpt from Vidal's introduction in his book o Mencken:
"Hoover is the ego; he also represents the British interest, forever trying to draw the great stupid republic into their wars and combinations. Calvin Coolidge is a near-fascist clown whose career is "as appalling and as fascinating as a two-headed boy." Warren G. Harding is the master of a glorious near-English in which "the relations between word and meaning have long since escaped him." Harding's style "reminds me of a string of wet sponges; it reminds me of tattered washing on the line; it reminds me of stale bean soup, of college yells, of dogs barking idiotically through endless nights. It is so bad that a sort of grandeur creeps into it." Mencken's descriptions of these wondrous clowns are still a delight because, though the originals are long since erased from the collective "memory" of the United States of Amnesia, the types persist. " I am not," Mencken observes demurely at one point, when blood is on the walls, "a constructive critic."

thanks LiL... good goin, vadaryl! lots of men in that group behind her too..

We all looked to serious back there, they should of had has act more excited, but we were all trying to listen to what she had to say. So we were not staged.

One comment.

In my household growing up, we were never allowed to refer to someone else as a "pronoun"....it was considered disrespectful. We were taught to use their name.....so when MO says "she" or "her" instead of Hillary or Senator Clinton it just makes me cringe.

She said once she wont say the name because she is afraid of the sound bytes that might come from it.

BS

LOLOLOLOL @ "The secret service guy almost jumped in when he saw someone moving chairs around. It was me tripping on them."

yeah, I saw her with the first row!!

You know, I don't know if you saw the little, elderly lady sitting behind me...she was so sweet...she was going on and on about how this was her first rally and she was so excited and all!!!

Well, I switched seats with her, so she could be in the first row...she hugged me and said she wanted to cry!!

One of the photographers took her pic(and her name)...but I don't know if the pic was used anywhere.

They have had problems at the rallies with people sitting up front blocking the TV cameras. So that's why they did not have any signs. All camps are complaing about this. They want their person to be heard and be visable.

MLRO must be on meds tonight...she is very calm.

..I'm just sayin'

The NY Times article is now becoming part of the dialogue. Just heard an interview on the radio and a strategist saying that the nomination is "slipping out of her grasp" according to campaign insiders.

So that's it? They're packing it in? It's over? Or is this the media picking up the NY Times story and preaching it as if it were gospel? What is going on here because I am getting really depressed.

LOL @ "I come to this thing as a Mom"
--MLRO

LOLOLOLOL...and I happen to be the wife of the candidate

Did you see the lady with the sign that read I am a Hill fan, this was her third rally, and I was able to get Hillary to sign it for her.

Now ya see? that's what I like about being Anglican :)

Sarah McLachlan-"Good Enough"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFfwR0dJzUw

Jack

Ally..it aint over.. to quote Julian of Norwich, "all will be well and all will be well.."

Well, why didn't Iris stay to get a pic of you with HRC???

Chelsea asked one of the Secret Security Agents what he was afraid of, and he said Osama, Obama, and your mama.

Lush - what kind of meds, do you think?

listen to her slurpin' Oprah

I do not find MO compelling.....what is her salary? 675k a year? and she is connecting with people because her father was poor.....disingenuous...would be an understatement.

Sorry _ but I see so much that is distasteful it makes me wonder ....

they always say birds of a feather........flock together.

She could not get to the stage. They would not let us off the stage.

LOL @ "Osama, Obama, and your mama."

Dan Abrams is all in a twist about the NYTimes saying they couldn't find people to substantiate Obama's drug use.

Is Obama James Frey

CNN.com - Oprah to author: 'You conned us all' - Jan 27, 2006Jan 27, 2006 ... Author James Frey on Thursday admitted he lied and embellished events about himself and other characters in his best-selling book about ...
www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/books/01/27/oprah.frey/index.html - 42k

Lush - what do you mean by "slurpin"?

unlikely_burrito....I wonder if her Dad was a mill worker??

colleen

valium and suckin' up ;)

well, that interview was boring...nothing new

Lush - what makes you think it's valium? Maybe valium makes people slurp.

While the Obama and HRC folks pound each other over the head a little reality break.

Images from CPAC.

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/02/cpac-dispatch-by-digby-and-then-theres.html

Jack

relax, colleen

Terrier judging time at the dog show

CNN

Hillary in Virginia link http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/02/10/sot.clinton.whooped.up.update.cnn?iref=videosearch

What is going on in WA state. They stopped counting the votes, that's a joke.

Osama, Obama, mama-old,old, old, boring.............

LOLOL@ Lush. I am relaxed, taking my valium!! LOL

My bumper sticker is going to end up:

"yeah that's right -I am voting for my dog!"

Huckie just said some nice things about Hillary and Obama.

" I think you will see a woman president of the US in your lifetime. Am sure Patsi's granddaughter will too."

Well, I won't live to see it if not this time.

But I am being told that the woman should "get out of the way of the dream." (I hear this every day on c-span....)

So what am I to say to that? Do I say, "Screw you! Get out of the way of OUR dream. IF this is about minorities, then the fact is, women are the oldest oppressed minority in the history of MANKIND.

I say "get out of the way of the dream" is horsecrap on any level.

colleen

I don't take prescription drugs...I am a relaxed person, by nature...but if valium works for you...go for it. :)

dog
Fin and I will root for the beagle since the welsh terrier didn't make it into the finals.

Dog's Eye

Have you ever considered Anglican? It's Catholic without the confession and with married male and female priests. :-)

Henry VIII only fired the Pope. He didn't make too many other changes.

awwww..ya gotta love a beagle :)

poor poor poor Obama's - they only had 991K salary in 200(5)?

Stop the pretenses. It makes me sick. Poor little rich (minority) folk.....who so understand what it's like to live in a million dollar home and send the precious babies to private school and oh it's so difficult to juggle, ballet with Latin classes, and i work full time, so i know how hard it is......... who's buying this crap?

Anglican is catholic lite :)

well...here it is in a nutshell.. anglican (and episcopal) has always had a 'big tent' view of things.. not a lot of dogma.. and some of us want that tent to extend to gays... others dont.. (happened when they were talking about ordaining women too, by the way.. lots of people threatened to walk.. some did..most stayed and it's been rather good.) same thing's happening now.. everything will settle eventually..

Anyone else find it ironic that HRC will need Texas, a.k.a., Bush Country, to win this thing? Talk about poetry!

Is W registered in TX? I'd be curious to know who he's voting for. Probably the Huck.

There has been some schism talk in England and the US on ordination of gays. I know there was quite a stir a while back when one of the Deans here in the U.S. performed a Gay ceremony.

I suppose it's just natural for religions to need to hate somebody.

Love thy neighbor.......oh, that is unless we tell you to hate them.

Burrito:

I should send a few of your posts to my friends in Ohio.

Who do you support again?

People don't like to be talked to (or about) in terms of demographics.

What about Ohio, the state in question in 2004.

Maybe Jr. will vote for Hillary since Sr. likes bill so much.

Just happened to remember something about Episcopal that stunned me at the time. Apparently there is a group that has shifted into the Evangelical camp. When I was living in Stockton I was interviewing for a job and nearly fell over at the "born again" views.

So if you decide on Episcopal check under the hood for what is running the engine. :-)

my daughter made everyone shut up for a while at the last synod (general meeting).. she's 19..and rather small but feisty.. she said "every church has a sign outside that says "the anglican church welcomes you.." it's DOESN'T say 'we welcome you..unless'... it DOESNT say "we welcome you.. as long as...".. it's time to stop leaving ppl on the doorstep..

oh you're right Jamie.. but most churches have websites and you can get a lot of info from them.. including whether they are 'left' or 'right'.. see? it creeps into everything..

Warren- I live in Ohio now. I have lived in CA ,TX and OH....The demographic I obtained on OH were from NPR site. see below

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/vote2008/state.php?state=OH

Patsi:

You can say you have seen a historic moment in this counrty's history. This thing is just getting started.

dog's eye - I bet you like the onewhere I said I was voting for my dog! :)

"You can say you have seen a historic moment in this counrty's history. "

Warren, Warren....you are OH so young and oh so....well.....I'll just say that I was born in 1945. I have seen many historic moments in this country's history. If you think your Obamamania is THE one, I suggest you read a little more and worship a little less.

Religon, sex and politic's - this blog is almost as good as prime time tv

I think the Episcopal had several congrigations break away of the ordination of a gay priest
maybe that was said earlier - to much to read

Patsi:

I think electing the first black president is a tremendous accomplishment for this country. I also think electing a man that has been against this war from the outset will send a powerful statement to the entire world. I think Barack is the best to move this country's foreign policy forward in this critical moment in time.

That is what the "fierce urgency of now" means to me.

well..goodnght everyone.. yer all welcome to come to my ordination.. :)

Dog,
If religion divides then it is not?

As my daughter tells me - fighting for peace is like having sex for virgintiy

1945!! You just a pup - plenty of more female leaders on the rise.

"But I do not necessarily the election belongs to a woman, or to a black, or to an Asian, or whomever."

Absolutely agree, dog's eye... that was my point.

George Bush isn't a real texan

Molly Ivins and Barbara Jordon are real texans

http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/11/in-praise-of-barbara-jordan/#comments

I meant you're

Why in the world does it matter so much what the color of his skin IS!!!!! That in of itself makes this idea backwards...if we are all equal...then the only real CHANGE would be a WOMAN!!!!!

He is but a man, whether he is pink, purple, or gray.....just a man NO MORE and no less....same as it has ever been.

NOW a WOMAN President would be a REAL accomplishment and a REAL change.

YOU CAN NOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.

Warren,
Even when BO is not elected - the respect and support from most segments of the population is wonderful.

unlike Burrito
Anything other then WASP is a change.
Now a black, jewish women or anything other then main stream- make that single women. That would be change

In CRAIGS post - I did not catch "the public spectacle " created by Obama with the Edwards thing.

Did I misssomething?
Is Craig over sensative - with all the bad karma for HRC?

Dog , I have heard several stories along those lines....especially from people who travel to remote areas.... it says a lot.

"I think electing the first black president is a tremendous accomplishment for this country. I also think electing a man that has been against this war from the outset will send a powerful statement to the entire world. I think Barack is the best to move this country's foreign policy forward in this critical moment in time."

I would have KILLED to see Barbara Jordan elected president. But not because she was a black or a woman, although both would have been frosting on the cake.

Let me rewrite your "platform" just a bit:

"I think electing the first woman president is a tremendous accomplishment for this country. I also think electing a strong woman will send a message to the world that this country has turned a corner on the oldest form of discrimination in history. Further, I think Hillary is the best to move this country's foreign policy forward in this critical moment."

Having said that, my vote for Hillary is not solely based on her gender. I've already said that I loved Edwards and was almost in the tank for Obama until he turned the campaign quasi-religious.

Ping - I try to be color blind, I am not religiously motivated, I have many relationship with people from different parts of the world, and quite honestly....men and women, regardless of race, think and process issues differently.

That is why I think a "real change" would be a woman. And a change by color(ie. race) is only promoting change by believing the very racist thoughts that blacks are different then whites.

religion.
So how many died in the crusades? I guess you could almost say it continues to this day

Burrito - good points, and Mr Obama is very much mainstream so agree that the a female would be very different then a male - mars and venus..

However the bias or lack of on the voters to elect and support either is a reveling statement.

Maybe Jessie and co can go out of business.

So maybe all of the HRC machine (including the 4th estate elements) are worried that their cheese is about to get moved...

you can qoute that is a Pingism

Dog,,,
If the polls are correct - which they have not been - they show Obama as the best option of the two to defeat John McCain...

Now has anyone talked about the eventual ticket ?

McCain and Mitt !!

Just wait

It wont matter in the end, because we all only have one vote, and none of us have any way to know that our votes actually are counted or not.

So it is a leap of faith, hope and everything in between.....

CRAIG..
If not reported yet (and I am way behind on my blog homework)

John McCain and Mitt will be the winning ticket..

Best of both worlds and with the VP in the jump seat on the hill - much can be done on the domestic economics

WOW That is a power house

it's only a power house ticket if they put a bag over McCain's head .....

Patsi:

I think the bitter partisan battle that would be fought against Hillary in the general would be bad for this country. People would sound like they do on this board all day. And it get even uglier with the Republicans. It will be like the freaking Haldey's and McCoy's. I think it is great that Hillary is a woman - and she is exceptional - but she is also a Clinton and I want my country back.

On foreign policy:

The presidential debates will be important for this country. I want the Democratic candidate to be able to articulate the reasons why this war should be ended - not explaining away why it was authorized.

And I think it will make an important statement to the world for an overwhelming majority of Americans (not about half of them) to elect a true anti-war candidate.

Dog's Eye

There is an old joke about the Clintons where Hillary intoduces Bill to an old boyfriend who is now working in a service station. Bill says, "Well look how it turned out, you married me and became First Lady" to which she replied, "Yes dear, but if I had married him, he would have been President."

You look at Senator Clinton and see someone who got where they are because of being married to a particular man. I look at Senator Clinton and see a woman who would have gotten there sooner, but she took time out to support her husband.

As far as I'm concerned, she has no baggage. She has a husband who misbehaved, but lots of women have had one of those. I'll let her handle that, and I believe that if she campaigned that way she would get the independents.

There is no way she will get the super conservative haters but no Democrat is going to get them. Their own candidate this year may not get their vote.

"BUT she is able to run for president due to her visibility and contacts as a former first lady; no way she could have parachuted into the NY Senate seat without that connection."

But you have no way of really knowing that. I could just as easily say that if Barack were a white man with his woeful experience (winning his one national election agaist Alan Keyes, for one) he would have been laughed out of this contest.

Mitt is the best choice....
Need someone to pull the ditto votes.

Crist is not known - I think he is OK, but I do not see him as a President.
Huckster does not bring votes - his will all go to McCain so no gain.
Mitt got skills - brings votes and will get the talkers back. In fact based on the comment he made when he "suspended" his campaign... The war on terror and support for John.... There you go... it is a done deal

Patsi:

Your analogies are way off.

BHO is the most contrast to McCain - stonger is not a word to use.
BHO can claim the weakest support for the war. Hillary is a flip. McCain - clear to all.

And at the rate of improvement in Iraq - the war will not be as big of issue.
The Economy will be the lead story and Healthcare.

McCain does not like Romney and he will select someone he respects far more. Governor Crist from FL may be a possibility.

White guys are not that charismatic... So Patsi I think he goes further if white and all other things stay the same - as some bias is still out there

If Obama was white where would he be?

Crist is a nice guy and I like him as my gov. But he is not strong enough.....

Lets see if McCain and Mitt can kiss and make up.
But you do bring up one of the neg of McCain... McCain gets an attitiude

"White guys are not that charismatic"

Dont make me laugh, this is the most racist comment I have seen on this blog.

You people are kidding yourselves if you do not think the Iraq War will be at the center of this election. McCain will also drive the issue as he did the primary. And if it is Hillary - he will drive flip-flopping just like he did with Romney. Those are McCain's strengths and Hillary's weaknesses.

Not to mention McCain can claim change by ending the Clinton-Bush dynasties.

The Republicans are scrambling - just like the Clintons - for arguments against Obama. I have heard them raise his liberal voting record - which will not play with anyone outside the core of the GOP. And they will argue we don't know him - just as the Clinton supporters are trying - and failing. Distortions of his record don't hold any water as people learn more and more.

Tom Lantos. Any memories, Katy Crack?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/12/washington/12lantos.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

They will own the South against Hillary. According to a Republican friend of mine.

By the way, to change the subject just a bit....

I told Sturge I'd tell what I know about the great Hillary/Tammy smackdown. I knew Tammy Wynette well. One day BEFORE the phone call where they made nice, Tammy said to me, "I guess I understand her using the 'Stand By Your Man' line -- but why the hell did she have to call me "that little OLD Tammy Wynette"?????????

Of course, I'm sure most of you know that Tammy never stood by a man in her life unless he was standing by HER, and was in the process of dumping a second loser husband when she co-wrote and recorded "Stand By Your Man"...

burrito..... this is not racist...
Fax are fax

Warren - Obama speaks and lots listen... Problem is they like what they hear but have little understanding of fiscal policy and the liberal nature....
I like his book, like his visions, just do not think BIG GOVERNMENT is the way.
Lots more to learn about the man...
and HRC sees the writing on the wall....

Warren - I think the IRAQ WAR should be and will be the center of this campaign. We need to resolve it in order to fund everything else that needs to be accomplished

Ping

Sounds like a great ticket.
But then I'm a Democrat. It doesn't bother me a bit if a third of the Republican base sits home in November.

The VP will have to be someone with Religious right creds. It could be Huckabee except he has major problems with inserting his foot in his mouth. If Brownback was from a state like Ohio he would be perfect.

jack

People just want a government that works together instead of engaging in political theater on MSNBC and Fox News.

Ping - maybe that is your life experience, not mine

Feinstein was considered for veep spot with Mondale but due to her three marriages was thought to be unacceptable as a candidate not too mention her husband's business dealings.

Burrito: exactamundo!

I just think the problems we face as a country are to big for one party to handle. Especially with a divded nation. Obama has the greatest potential to bring us together.

" why is HRC the first major Dem female candidate? (Shirley Chisholm, RIP.) Why are we not seeing presidential candidate Feinstein or Boxer or a university president or governor?
I think a lot of it is access to money from WJC's donors and visibility.
It's just hard to get away from that."

Yep....hubby takes care of things....that's just so buying into the frame.

Dog's Eye

Virtually every female office holder got there because they had the time and energy to devote to politics. Usually that meant that some man was paying the bills while they made the social, business, and political contacts. Most men got there because they had a wife to handle the social schmoozing climb up the ladder.

That's just the way things have worked until recently. It's why so many widows end up in their deceased husband's Congressional seat and often end up doing the job better than their husband.

No one including Obama, McCain, and anybody else who shows up on the scene got into the competition without knowing somebody who knows somebody who has access to a whole lot of money, contacts, and foot in the right doors. It goes with the territory.

Hillary Clinton is just another chapter in the same old story and she is more honest, talented and brilliant than 99% of her cohorts.

"Yeah, Tammy Wynette stayed glamorous to the end, didn't she?"

Dog...I'm not sure if you were making a little joke or being serious...

Jamie:

"[Obama] got there because [he] had the time and energy to devote to politics. [ ] That meant that some [wo]man was paying the bills while [he] made the social, business, and political contacts."

Meet Michelle Obama!! Talk about a change!

I thought she was pretty impressive on Larry King. Strong woman.

OK
I've got it the perfect VP for McCain. This is the year.
JC Watts former Congressman from Oklahoma.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J.C._Watts
A real African -American not some wanabe and a religious conservative to the core.
Perfect LOL
Also he and McCain are friends.

Jack

Warren,

"I think it will make an important statement to the world for an overwhelming majority of Americans (not about half of them) to elect a true anti-war candidate."

Most of the world wants Hillary. When it comes to the debate, I doubt she will have any trouble articulating why and how we should get out no matter how we got in. If she is debating McCain, it will be no contest. The most exciting thing will be watching the vein in his forehead throb.

NEW THREAD

Warren,

You made my point for me. There is no difference between the Senators. Except that Clinton was the breadwinner for her family and Michelle Obama was the breadwinner for hers.

It's not baggage to climb the business, social, and political ladder as a couple.

At some point, the networks are going to make salsa of anyone who goes in that office. It might as well be someone who has been through the chopper and shredder already.

"she was pretty impressive on Larry King" Someone must have gotten to her. She was all sweetness and light tonight. Nice change from her usual take no prisoners eat them alive right here attitude.

dog's eye --No, unfortunately, Tammy didn' t stay glamorous. When I first met her in 1983 she truly was one of the most beautiful women I'd ever met. And a complete sweetheart....funny, a LOT smarter than people would think....I just loved her.

But she had serious health problems. For one thing, every time she had any surgery, scar tissue started to grow internally. It caused horrible pain. Then another surgery would remove the scar tissue and the cycle would start all over again. Then more surgery to remove THAT scar tissue. Her life started to revolve around pain management. Somewhere during the last five or so years of her life her face started to show the results of years of pain. Horribly so, and seemingly overnight.

She aged maybe 15 years within a couple of years and it made her sick to look in a mirror. But I am so glad that you didn't know that! She would LOVE that some in the public thought she went ut as glamorous as she was in the early '80s.

RELOAD NEW THREAD

I'd like to get Craig's perspective on the NY Times article.