Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

Barack " REZKO " Obama's big mistake last night was the " 5 hour " comment. It will come back to haunt him!

Well, I was going to comment, but Fritz beat me too it. Time to go to work.

Everyone have a good day!

Geez, GORDO, I just challenged Sheila to a race to be 1st and you just beat us both! Anyway, maybe Hillary's bringing it up will haunt her 'cause she got lots of boos from the crowd. And the winner is...John Edwards!!!

Craig, now I've got to yell at you for doing just what I expected MSM to do, ignore Edwards. Would you care to comment on him before I have a tantrum?

I thought Edwards walked away with the debate.

no question about it, Patsi

OK, so with CM on "Morning Joe', they need to change the name of the show to "Morning Clinton Bashing".

Mika said, after the break they are going to discuss CM's arrogance...brb...I need to get a cup of coffee for this segment...LOL!!

Has Barbara Walters on the View countered CM's remarks about her or did she just ignore him......havent seen the View much past week.....

And yet Morning "Matthews" is pretty much ignoring Edwards' tremendous performance. Plus, Matthews now has fine tuned his Hillary attacks to avoid sexist charges. Now he refers to "the Clintons" and "what they're up to." He talks of "the Clinton machine." Presentation, presentation, presentation....

The truth is, and as a long time politico, I admire him for it -- Barack Obama has a formidible machine. He's been putting it together a long time. (There's an interesting and detailed 2006 article about how he did it that I saved back when it came out....) But if you just listen to Matthews, Barack is this righteous voice out there all alone in the wilderness fighting the evil Death Star. I know Matthews thinks that helps Obama....but I don't think it does.

Interlude:
there's something about blind piano players:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEo6zQAxUl0

You can let cnn know who won the debate

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/american.morning/

Personally I do not watch any nbc programming now
I accidentally saw Matthews this morning try to justify his fawning over Obama by saying all of the media have chosen sides.

They are supposed to be reporting the news not making it.

Matthews obviously rather desperately wants to make news.....it's his raisin debt.......

ya know sturg
that's probably exactly how he puts it
lol

It is a pretty sad statement when you can say FOX is doing a better job of covering the presidential primaries than msgop/nbc

Bernard McGuirk calls hillary winner by far in last night's debate......"tough as nails and if you have to face Putin, you better be tough as nails" etc

KatyCracker...thanks for the link. I voted. There's a small response so far, but it's Edwards, 40%; Obama, 29%; Clinotn, 26%; no one, 5%. Will be interesting to watch throughout the day.

Fox......having no one to really cheer or lie for they are simply reduced at long last to just reporting the news?

Morning ......
Craig, two spunky articles back to back !! The lamination of the Republicans on MLK - By the way the ending may be a little to far left even for you.

And today - Your experience as a candidate, in campaigns is showing - you are giving good advice to HRC and co.

Fox is left with no one to sing for but the band.

Fox......having no one to really cheer or lie for they are simply reduced at long last to just reporting the news?

Nahhhh.........

speaking of Bill.... If he drops the relationship with Ron Burkle - does he make more or less money? And define drop ? maybe put on hold .. But I have no problem with his relationship. We need more relationships

from The Wall Street Journal

Jan. 22, 2008

Former President Clinton stands to reap around $20 million -- and will sever a politically sensitive partnership tie to Dubai -- by ending his high-profile business relationship with the investment firm of billionaire friend Ron Burkle. The former president is negotiating to end his relationship with Mr. Burkle's Yucaipa Cos. as part of a broader effort to protect the presidential campaign of his wife, Sen. Hillary Clinton, from potential conflicts of interest.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120097424021905843.html?mod=djemalertNEWS

Since no media is covering the issues

here is some stuff to help out.
This is an site where you can compare healthcare plans

http://www.health08.org/sidebyside.cfm

Colleen
No problem. Folks should take every opportunity to make their voices heard.

Fox is better because you can sort through their bias
pretty quickly and they cover more news. msgop spends all day bashing Clintons(s)

Sturge....I'm stunned that Bernie had a decent word about Hillary "Satan" Clinton! And I'm griped that I can't get Imus on my cable (or computer). What sort of "take" has the Imus crew taken this morning....

Imus of course is still on "satan" but agrees reluctantly wit Bernard who is (surprisingly?) in Hillary's corner......Charles remains aloof.......

Edwards definitely brought his "A" game. It was also nice that he was in the same shot with the other two as opposed to the marginalizing seating arrangement in Vegas where it looked like he had been seated at the kiddie table.

A an old white Southern political editor is on C-Span talking about the Democratic debates....turns out he was an assistant to Strom Thermond....Jeez, C-span, what's up with that?

KGC.... I've read in several reputable places that FOX has the most news content of the 3 cable stations..... I'm mostly watching CNN nowadays.....

Colleen.... I wish more people would take an interest in what's happening in this country and learn where the candidates stand on the issues..... but debates to me are just pissing contests..... although I think they are necessary

I watched Comedy Central last night...... I thought it was a fitting tribute.....

Tweety just turned Do Do by getting the "Harvey" reference exactly backwards. Just like a lot of his thinking.

Harvey could only be seen by Mr. Dowd. He was invisible to everyone else.

Sturgeon

Raisin Debt? lol

Didn't Sunkist pay their bills?

Hillary: "you were practicing law and representing your contributor, Resco, in his slum landlord business in inner city Chicago."

This story has legs, and when this local story gets circulated, it will be bad news for Obama. The phrase, 'slum landlords and inner city Chicago', means one thing and one thing only. Black people were forced to live in deplorable housing conditions. The Clinton's can easily exploited this story as it was well documented by the Chicago press. Now if Obama wants to get down in the mud he can bring up Tyson chicken, Arkansas, and Rose Law Firm. equally as bad but from a different perspective.

Patsi,

Does you computer not handle the radio feed on Imus here:

http://www.wabcradio.com/article.asp?id=122648

Gee Fry
how about the gooper economy
didja put all your money in Countrywide like Cramer told you

And where would people be today if Shrub has privitized social securtiy...

Edwards did have a good debate, however....

There are a lot of TV commercials out there we think are really funny. However, just because people like the commercials doesn't necessarily mean they'll buy the product. Or even remember what product the commercial was about.

Edwards is in that situation. He's had a great series of commercials over the last five years, but for whatever reason, people aren't buying his product.

If this were going on in the "real world," in about 2005, we would have fired the ad agency and remessaged the commercials to try and better translate the message into sales.

In the US, 94% of all new products fail. If the new messaging didn't work, we probably would be cancelling the product.....

KCG,,, Thanks. Nice web site that compares Healthcare coverage.
Quick review - All have the same objective.
The major difference is the nationalization and government take over planned by the democrats.

If both ways can be succesful - which is best for America?
Which keeps innovation and advancements moving?

The " Military-Industrial-Media " complex's candidate, John " Itchy Trigger Finger " McCain, is GWB on steroids. If you want WAR, he will deliver!

Ping
In just a few years a giant wad of people will be part of medicare. It is a good time to evaluate how health care should be made available. Our current system is NOT working. I think a single payor is the right way to go. Let;s get rid of the insurance companies.

KCG... The overall return on the Macro and long term would be much better if Individual accounts vs the current situation. Hey let me take my money in SS and use it.
But the real problem is Health Care - Done to good of a job and blown away the basis for SS. I should dig and find one point of view that the SS fund was planned to be Surplus income as people did not live as long on avg.

Even with the short term down turns the overall long term of private funds is much better.

KCG - I agree with half - Healthcare advancements are fast coming in the current system. We need to fix access. Do not throw the baby out with the bath water.

To federailze -( and by the way Obama plan is scary and a real threat to our Nations System - Hillary is the better choice of these two by far.) OK back to the point. To Federalize Healthcare and major changes and trust the government that can not get its own system correct is simply a huge mistake.

Ping
on the ss accounts
that is baloney and you know it.
The Shrubco economy is a fake and the Republican just went along with it because they only care about the rights of the rich.

How's that plan for putting social security into the hands of Citibank, Merrill Lynch and the other financial ‘wizards’ as President Bush had so strongly urged looking now?

slow but steady wins the race

the fed just cut the rate 3/4 of a point....Shrub is trying to bring back his cheap credit economy.
Republicans the party of fiscal responsibility should be ashamed.
"

KG,

Actually I sold my position in Countrywide early in 07. Made a nice profit. I have been in cash since August 07, and now just sitting things out waiting to pick-up some very good stocks at a deep discount. Best time to buy stocks is when the market hits the fear factor and everyone is selling, and that time is fast approaching. If I were you I be opening some of those shoe boxes filled with Benjamin's you have stored away. I see the Fed just cut the interest rate 3/4 of a point, that will certainly help out my bond portfolio.

Young doctors hate the current system
It is completely broken.

Craig -- "And what if commentators on Saturday night focus on exit polls showing that Obama won only because he ran away with the African-American vote? The Clintons might then argue that it proves his lack of broad appeal."

Love the strategy...Make's perfect sense...But as a Southerner, you know how how important it is to be gratious in defeat. If they were going to try and pull this off, they should have started last night during the debate and taken the high road.

Fry
Wow there''s a value
making money from predatory lending

NOTICE: POLITICALLY INCORRECT STATEMENT AHEAD...

Craig -- As a southerner, you should also undersand the deep psychological impression that might have been made by watching a white woman verbally beating up on a black man. Not that it would have affected everyone, but for those people who lived through the segregated south and the civil rights movement, it might have been distrurbing. They may not even be able to pin down why it bothered them....

As I watched that unfold last night, I found it ironic that it happened in SC on MLK day....Another reason for them to have taken the high road last night and moved on...

Spike

good thing you posted a warning notice
since Obama attacked her first...what was she suppoed to do

KCG - is the young doctor thing based on your exit poll from Med School? How do you make that statement?
I can assure you that young and old Doctors do not want federal Socialist Obama Healthcare.
Most are scared of Hillary Care.

and by the way in my market the Federal Gov is the largest provider of Coverage already. And they drive the entire market

The best future for Healthcare is to continue the advancements which will drive prevention and early diagnosis of illness. If you go with the plan of most democrats you may put into danger a freeze of technology.
Do you want to be cared for with 2008 technology or 1968 technology?

KG,

FYI. The Fed is a independent organization, not controlled by the WH or Congress. The Fed cutting the discount rate by 75 basis points is a good sign that they intend to cut the rate even further. These rate will trickle down to home buyers, refinancing, new car buyers, credit card holders, etc..

We have two young doctors in my family and I have met many of their classmates
and I can assure you --
you have no idea what you are talking about

the rate of young docs leaving the profession is very high,.

The best way to continue advancements is basic free market principles.
Which by the way is coming quickly - and driven in part by the Feds - The smart Feds !!

Finally -- Clinton made her best gains in the early debates where the overriding consensus was that she appeared "presidential."

All of that was lost in last night's debate. It reminded me of when I lived in Chicago and had the opportunity to watch the Daley machine versus the Republicans (and sometimes one of their own). Sort of like watching sausage being made.

I'm really having a hard time imagining they are purposefully trying to push black voters toward Obama so they can argue he doesn't have a broad appeal.

Am I missing something here???

hold on there, ping pong, who says doctors don't want socialized medicine? is that what you're saying? seems to me that may have been the thinking about medicare when it was introduced, but it's made lots of physicians rich, and money talks.

KCG - I see the doc's everyday.... Healthcare is my industry. I have the pleasure of working with Univ, Hsp, do not get a lot of private offices... But I do stay close to the Healthcare pulse and key factors. Looking at both Micro and Macro impacts.

SO lets stay on track and not take diversions... Lets get to the facts.

Obama is the one who claims he is part of the Daley machine

and another thing. like KatyCracker, I know many physicians who are leaving the field of medicine, mostly because of the outrageous liability insurance they have to pay ro keep the private insurers rolling in money. not to mention our hideously litigious society.

Ping
So produce some facts

Collen - Great point.... And by the way no single answer for What Docs Want - this is a very diverse group. Belive me some times very dangerous to get caught in the middle of Doc's.
$$ Drive - can be for the good, or not

This is a survey only for Minnesota physicians, but I imagine the attitudes would be similar nationwide.

http://www.minnesotamedicine.com/PastIssues/February2007/ClinicalHealthCareFebruary2007/tabid/1709/Default.aspx

Doctors endorse single-payer
American College of Physicians said it backed the system because access to health care had deteriorated.
By Stacey Burling

Inquirer Staff Writer

The Philadelphia-based American College of Physicians - the nation's second-largest physician group - endorsed a single-payer health-care system yesterday.

oops
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/12109247.html

Well that's two major studies in favor of Single Payer.

Do we have any takers on the opposite proposition?

KCG - Healthcare is one of the fastest growing segments of GDP and huge part of our economy, so when you mess with Healthcare you impact many segments. Now who is to argue if 10% or 15% is good or bad, and depends on the basis of calculations.

What if one of the facts is we are very close to significant advancements that will take huge COST OUT of Healthcare - which would improve ACCESS for all people. Which by the way those that want care get care today. Funded by many different local, state, charitable and federal programs.

You can not kill the engine that drove the advancements - or guess what - in 2020 you will get care based on technology that is today.

Now I fully agree that payer system, legal system and access must be addressed, But PRIVATE is the best way

Harborwoman

just in answer to your post on the last thread..

I know what you mean about the congress..but from what I understand about how the American system works.. the congress has to have 2/3 to make any big changes, and since the majority is so slim, and repubs have been so reticent to break party affiliation, and the Presidential (and ..what are they called? when the president just strikes a pen through one paragraph of a bill and says NO.. cant remember the term) veto has been used more often than in history.. there are a lot of reasons why things cant get done. How about the fact that war bill after war bill HAD to have funding because you cant yank money out from under soldiers who are on the front lines? The repubs used healthcare as an election issue in 2000 and did nothing about it when they had BOTH houses and the presidency. No Child Left Behind left everyone behind. The Bush Admin was a group of madmen in the whitehouse.. I cant understand how anyone can even think of letting them stay.

KGC -- It doesn't make any difference who attacked who first. She should have taken the high road, instead of getting into this "I've got more dirty laundry on you than you do on me" business...

The point was that they both acted like Daley politicians last night. Talk radio's going to have a field day with this today, which isn't going to help either one of them.

Got to go teach the heathens -- back during the "Crawford After Dark" segment

pingpong... go ahead and line up with insurance companies and pharmas if you want, but universal healthcare is not only possible, it is profitable for the pharmas... Insurance companies can withstand the loss.. they're sitting on giant piles of interest-accumulating money.

Ping
You have presented NO EVIDENCE that a single payer would stop or prevent what is going on in medical advancement.
(side note the religious preferences of the current administration your peeps have done more to stop advancement)

where are the facts

if Private is the best system why is the Health Care in the US about 17th in the world?

yo soy Horsedooty!

Spike
I call bullshit
why should she take the high road when he is flinging poo
and I call bullshit on the white woman black man theme too

Compare Healthcare and Energy. Supply and Demand.
What if you could reduce energy demand, not build another powerplant ever again - and update the old to be enviroment friendly - Things like better light bulbs - so you get the same light but half the energy used. Or cars that go 100 mpg.

Same in Healthcare - What if you have technology that gets the diagnosis before the illness. Prevention.
Would you want this to come true?

But hey then you compound the Social Security crisis as people will live longer.
At some point and usually the end of life is the majority of Healthcare cost, You pay the piper

canadian doctors werent too pleased when medicare was introduced..they got used to it..

race and gender are irrelevant.

Tylenol

Slight correction there. As yet, the President does not have a "line item veto" where he can just strike out a portion of a bill and send it back to Congress while passing the balance of the legislation.

What Bush has done is totally thumb his nose at Congress with hundreds of "signing statements" that allow him to sign a bill and then just issue a statement that he doesn't have to follow the portions he doesn't like.

As a result Congressional hands are tied because they don't get the legislation back as they would with a veto. What happens is that with either a Veto or a Signing Statement, they need the 60% vote to either overide the Veto or to pass a new piece of legislation that specifically says the President must do it their way or his is breaking the law.

So far that 2/3 plurality is not available to the Democrats and Bush is still in the cat bird seat with the Executive branch rideing roughshod over the Legislative.

I've noticed something here lately.. everywhere i go, homes and businesses.. i notice that most of us have switched to those spiral lightbulbs.. they're amazing.. they use much less energy, where we used to use 60 w or 100 w bulbs we can now use 20 and 40 w, and they last so much longer than traditional bulbs.. we switched a year ago and I still havent had to replace a bulb..

HOLD ON - Single Payer does not indicate Federal Socialist Healthcare.

Do not confuse - The Doctors want to stop having more administrators then lab techs. Take the next layer off the onion.

And Profits are not bad.... Raise your hand if your personal income is not in some way part of the profit of a company

Interesting comments re the debate, Spike. I didn't have that reaction, white woman beating up on black man, but if you did then others might. I must miss a lot in debates. That whole Lazio being threatening when he approached Hillary concept was foreign to me. I didn't see it as threatening or invasive. I thought it was stupid of her to exploit it, too. I doubt very seriously that Ricky scared her for a minute. I think that was a case where others started the ball rolling and she decided to score some points.

jamie! signing statement! that's the word i was hunting for!

it's what was being fought for.......it's what MLK preached about.......race and gender are irrelevant.

It began in the fifties......it's here now......we dont have to argue it anymore......let race and gender (at least for democrats......) be irrelevant.....

ping
you are just flinging talking points
how about backing up some with some actual facts

oh right you cannot because you are just spewing talking points

I don't even understand your energy comparison

Edwards won the debate. Clinton was fastest on her feet with a command of the material. Even when her temper was up, she stood her ground. Obama was improved but still snarky and insulting whenever he wasn't prepared with information or no answer for associations.

our system is a co-payer system.. shared by insured and employer.. works fine..

dooty, Based on what measure?

And please if anyone brings up Mikey Moore as a resource Blaaaaaaaa

We need to open up the insurance industry and have more compitetion. the segments that are the problem in Healthcare relate to lack of competition.
Then the obsesive profits of Insurance will go away and they will clean house and trim the fat.

The challenage is access and get away from Admin issues - not shift them to the fed

i prefered the sitting around and talking portion of the debate last night.. that's what all the debates should look like.. standing there pointing and accusing opponents of dirty tricks doesnt get anyone anywhere.. (altho Edwards was really effective rising above it)..

ping

you are the only one talking about socialized medicine
the gop really needs to update its talking points

and it IS irrelevant for me.......all I want is a Demo nominee who can bash the gop upside they squirrelly little haids.......

i'm with ya doots..and that's based on ANYONE's measure.. do you read anything besides repub talking points, ping?

LOL sturge.. amen!

Craig - am i in the penalty box?
Keep getting knocked off

Disclaimer:
although Im sure Mr Ping does NOT have a squirrelly little haid.....

Golly, You are an angry group :~)

Man I had the best response and the system knocked me off......

For some reason makes me love the place that much more

sturg,, I do have morning hair right now working from the house.... Not enough remains, unlike Craig, from the old days to be squirrelly

anyone else incredibly suspicious of recent similar posts under a variety of new names? ok.. maybe i'm just paranoid..

"who says doctors don't want socialized medicine?"

Doctor who need to pay off their school loans, pay their malpractice insurance, pay for new technology, pay for quality staff, pay for further education, office space, taxes, IRA, 401 K, social security, etc.. Why is it a problem for these people to make money? They after all went took the extra steps to become doctors. Their knowledge is providing a for a better quality of life. What are you will to pay a qualified plummer to come out in the middle of the night to fix a leak? I had a chance 5 years ago to talk to a husband and wife who were both doctors in Germany, they think that socialized medicine pretty much sucks compared to our system of medicine. A family I know just came back from living in the UK for the last 2 years. What they learned was for small things like colds aches, and pains seeing your doctor was not a problem, what they discovered once it went beyond a simple office visit is when the patients had to wait extend periods of time to get scheduled. Should everybody have some sort of coverage? A lot of 20 something's don't give healthcare a second though, and if they get sick they treat it themselves or make a trip down to the local health center. Healthcare usually doesn't become a factor until you get married, start a family, or if you already have a health related issue. I don't use Wal-Mart to have my prescriptions filled, but I see them advertising they fill prescriptions for $4.00. True that is a generic form of the medicine, and is not a tier 3 medicine which are very expensive. I always make it a point to ask my doctor what tier is the medicine he is providing me, and if there is a generic substitute. The patient has to bare some responsibility when it come to healthcare cost.

who's angry? brb.. FKIN coffee cup's empty!

nice cut and paste there fry

OK, KCG - Good point, So I will refer to the great need for free market solutions to continue and expand. It is when we do not have free market that the problems..... like insurance - prevail. Open the market and make the insurance compete just like everyone.

And I am for simplify the payer system.

shorter Fry
blame the victim

So which Rep Candidate is Ping voice support?

Tylenol

Is that FKIN going from your mouth to God's ears? lol

Seriously Ping
Do you really believe that health care in a for profit model is the right thing to do?

God wants me to have coffee too, Jamie :)

interesting....
I see a vision of a better healthcare system. I want to see access for all..... We share the vision.
Just mine is not federal programs but efficent free market solutions, why do I want the groups that can not get so many things correct to take over such an important area?

Think Jetsons !! It is possible, It is near,

Rising tide floats all boats.... talking points based on facts

market's tanking this morning...

Ping
I definitely want to hear what is going on in Fla from your point of view and who you are supporting and why.
And what ads you are getting...all the good stuff

Ping
"Think the Jetson's" lol

KCG - Absolutely, If any regulation must be to get cost out that are not related - Prior great points that I have friends that no longer practice in Florida as the insurance was to high due to the Malpractice issues.

We both want the same result. The federal government bureaucracy is not the answer but is overhead.
It distress me to see Children not cared for... But a federal program does not make better parents.

Do not over read that docs wanting single payer means a system overhaul. They want to be Doc’s

Wall Street hates the President's stimulation proposal. Now it doesn't seem to be wildly in favor of the Fed's 3/4 cut.

Romney and Clinton in their respective parties seem to be the only ones with definitive short and long term economic plans.

Just a moment of flag waving... Sarah Polley's Away From Her..beautiful movie and Oscar nominated! :)

access to healthcare isnt always a parental issue...

Florida Update from the Loan Red Ranger !!

Phone calls from Rudy = 1 Every other day and Mitt one total, No others.
I do not watch much TV.... But what I have seen...
Rudy has a good make up artist and has for a long period run ads in Florida, I think Rudy is going to be toast and not win Florida, Failed strategy
Mitt and Huckabee starting to increase exposure.

The local news is not making big issues at this point of coverage and the Local Paper has endorsements, But CRAIG, How can the Democratic Orlando Slantenal have any preference for the Republican-
The seem to contradict themselves with choice of Hillary and McCain

jon stewart last night had an interesting theory on romney.. he went from looking like the CEO who's been firing everyone (suit & tie) to one of the mill/auto workers (no tie, sleeves rolled up)

ping..yer so funny..every paper in the nation has one slant or another..

thanks ping

have you decided yet? are you willing to share your decision?

Jamie.. interesting assessments

So the PING OFFICIAL ENDORSEMENT OF MITT ROMNEY is done.

Going for early voting

I'm lucky. I live in Belgium and have awesome health care. Every worker MUST have health insurance, and it works extremely well.

Ty, I think they went with McCain as they think he could win the Primary but not beat Hillary in the general, Not because they like his platform

OH MY I sound like a conspiracy theorist !!

And this was Craig’s former employer… I think the one to get him to DC, Or was the WFTV?

Thomas, What if you are not a worker? Do you have the same access to high end care?

Today is the anniversary of Roe V Wade

Thomas, Also if you work for the little local bakery in a village town, Do they have to pay for healthcare or is it the state?

KCG et al Blue.... If you had to choose from column Republican - Which one?

KCG et al Blue.... If you had to choose from column Republican - Which one

I would write in Lincoln Chaffee

I really like Huckabee as a person.. he's funny and doesnt seem to take himself too seriously.. but I could never vote for him.. the lines between church and state are already too close.. I just couldnt put my X beside his name... Can't be McCain because I am so opposed to the war in Iraq... 9/11 Rudy is just a mean man.. process of elimination? Romney..

Thomas

I am so glad you are here. For months, I've been saying the Belgium system was perfect for the U.S., but that was based on just reading a description of the various European systems.

Maybe you could give everyone an idea of what it is like in practice.

The stock market is dropping like a rock. Everyone is talking recession. This, of course, will CAUSE a recession, if one hasn't started already.

More bad news for the Republicans. Bush will get (and deserves) the blame.

Here is a pretty comprehensive description of the healthcare system in Belgium. It's long so you might want to print it out. It is mandatory. We can let Thomas say how it works in practice.

http://www.justlanded.com/english/belgium/tools/just_landed_guide/health/health_insurance

Pingster,
"HOLD ON - Single Payer does not indicate Federal Socialist Healthcare."

Amen!

"And Profits are not bad.."

Amen! But there is a conflict when it comes to health care. The goal is for people to be healthy. The goal for insurance companies is to make profits, say..., by denying claims.

Our whole notion of health care and insurance is seriously screwed up, but nobody seems to want to address the illness, only the symptoms.

Obama is a lost cause. His recent comments about Reagan and his "hands-off" approach to the presidency are not what Democats want to hear.

Hillary will wipe him out on Feb 5.

ping,

here is a study on the ranking of Health Care in the US

http://www.civicactions.com/vision

yo soy Horsedooty!

Socialism vs Free Market: school lunches

School Lunches: healthy menu designed by (govt employee) nutritionist. Low cost due to govt power to negotiate lower price.

Fast Food: horribly unhealthy and expensive. Providers design products high in fats and sugars which maximize their sales to uninformed consumers.

I will report my experiences in Belgium, but first I want to read the article Jamie posted.

nash,
"Bush will get (and deserves) the blame."

I'd throw in Paulson and Snow, as well as Greenspan and Bernanke. But then, the buck does stop with W. Of course now the buck is only worth $0.87.

Ignore previous reference. This one from the Brookings Inst. is a little more understandable.

http://www.brookings.edu/events/2007/0205health-care.aspx

dnd: Bush's tax cut for corporations and the rich had a HUGE negative impact, as well as $2Trillion (est toal long-term cost) Iraq War.

here is a news article taking Michael Moores movie Sicko and it examines the facts in the movie. Looks pretty impartial to me.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/l/content/oh/story/living/2007/2007/06/29/ddn070207lifesicko.html

yo soy Horsedooty!

Here is the list of health care rankings

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

just an aside...I do not get it. Here is a lively discussion of health care. People are informed and want to know more. They are engaged. Why doesn't the msm get that.

as a group we cannot be that different from the rest of American.

KCG, Again another great point.... The MSM (and NBC for sure ) is all about entertainment and selling ad time (and more conflict with NBC being part of ge). Go back to the blogs of the past - that is a whole nother string...... People do not get the facts,, Not even the Healthcare providers get it

Amazing numbers
What would the money spent on the Iraq war buy?

3 months of the Iraq war would buy one years tuition at a public university for the 2008 graduating class and give them each $500.00 to go party on.
lol
Talk about an economic stimulus.

These are from numbers obtained from dept. of ed. sources and using the estimate of 100 billion a year for Iraq war expenses.

Any Democrat out there could run thoses numbers nonstop in every suburban market and win.

It is truly amazing the amount of money we have wasted.

Jack

would you want someone vingeful like this leading the country again? If so, then your man in the GOP is Rudi.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/22/us/politics/22giuliani.html?_r=1&ex=1358658000&en=29fd0ff771df8a73&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin

yo soy Horsedooty!

US economy is poised on the bink of total collapse:
-there is already a depression in the housing market
-consumers are maxed out on debt from credit cards and home equity loans on property that has declined in value.
-our manufacturing base is crippled by outsourcing.
-our schools are bad and getting worse. Our kids can't do math or science.
-Businesses would rather hire illegal immigrants, for what few jobs are left.

When the dust settles we'll have tens of millions of people with no jobs, no skills, no savings, and no hope.

Perfect conditions for the rise of American Fascism.

Watch right-wing populists Huckabee as the recession develops to find out WHO THEY WILL BLAME for our economic problems.

'm lucky. I live in Belgium and have awesome health care. Every worker MUST have health insurance, and it works extremely well.

What is your meaning of, "awesome health care", and "it works extremely well."? How does the 8% unemployment rate, and 90% public debt to GDP (10th largest in the world) play into it? And jamie, why is it perfect for the US? Belgium has a population of 10.4 million compared to the US 302 million.

Ping

Why not McCain?

Complex issues with simple answers..
I am sure the rankings for what they study and bias that was used is accurate.
I also strongly agree that the US system needs some change
Access is critical -
I do not belive that the US Government is the right answer to run Healthcare - We need sustanable solutions that drive innovation and advancements.
We can not cure Healthcare with todays technology.

tylenol and jan...

Going back to our discussion about the differences between Dems and Repubs...I really do understand all the reasons (AND excuses) behind the failure to make effective change following the 2006 election. And I agree...there are some REASONS why the Dems have been unable to make the kind of progress that would be helpful. I also understand that SOME of our elected Democratic officials (Pelosi) took some very important possibilities off the table immediately following their ascendancy to positions of power in Congress, and have made many EXCUSES for their choices. It's been written about at length by many people on this blog.

It is perhaps my own distrust of most politicians that leads me to the conclusion that there's little difference between the POLITICIANS in the two parties. The written platforms of the two parties contain substantial differences. However, it matters little what they've written on paper if they don't follow through with what they wrote. It also matters little what they've written if the cogs in their wheel (the politicians) are so busy fund-raising for their next campaign and toadying up to lobbyists because all that cash and all those perks are so compelling that they take their eyes off the people's business. You want to see politicians who are free to focus on the people's business, and to give us parties with REAL differences? End corporate owned and funded elections.

At this point, I want someone in power who will work to restore our Constitution, who will view it as a living document and nominate Supreme Court Justices who also view it that way, and who will work - on all issues! - with all US citizens in mind, rather than only those who can be helpful politically (the rich). I think the Dems are most likely to head in those directions...and will vote accordingly.

Canadian system works great.. and everyone's covered..

McCain is Washington, I do not think he will bring the fresh new ideas - It is more that I like Mitt the best. I Mitt brings the best opportunity and will challenge the status quo.
I hate the use of "Change" in this campaign, Everyone wants Bush out,
If you want less government I think Mitt is the Answer then Ron Paul.
We need a future not a past.... Hey thats a good line

tylenol...

Those 'spiral' lightbulbs are great. I use them, too. But be careful when you dispose of them. They contain quite a bit of mercury.

Also...you mentioned being suspicious of all the similar posts lately by different new contributors. Me, too! Just looks a bit too contrived, doesn't it?

Thanks ping

Off to the work office...
Enjoyed it today

Best to all

PING FOR MITT
PING FOR A FUTURE

One last thought.

The best for America will be a HRC vs Mitt.
Then allow for an aggressive challenging debate.

I think Mitt should remind everyone what the guy that layed them off looks like.

yo soy Horsedooty!

laid them off

yo soy Horsedooty!

The White House says we're not heading into a recession. I guess that's their way of saying we're already in a recession...

Ok the mutualitiet/ziekenfonds is handled by a few different organizations, primarily on the basis of which unions people belong to. Almost all workers in Belgium are members of a union. The unions do not organize by company or shop, but by industry. People usually are required to belong to a union. Belgium has a high standard of living. Most workers get at least 4 weeks paid vacation a year plus a 13th month salary bonus. I don't get that because I hold a franchise so if I go on vacation I need to hire someone to work and pay them and also for me to pay the costs of my trip. The pension plans for independent businesspeople are very small, so I am also required to buy private pension plans in hopes of having enough money to live come retirement.

I chose Onafhankelijk Ziekenfonds (OZ) which means Independent Health Insurance simply because they offered an extra benefit of €75 coverage towards glasses. Doctors fees and medicines are strictly controlled. Doctors can charge around €21 to €35? depending on what service they are providing. As of this year they can charge a very nominal amount more for visits after 6 pm. Belgian doctors still make house calls! When you visit the doctor, or the doctor visits you, you must pay him/her in cash and you get an official doctor visit slip to submit for reimbursement. 75% of the costs are reimbursed. Prescriptions are handled by an Apotheek (Pharmacy) of your choice. I go to the same one because if I turn in my receipts in the new year and I get some extra financial credits. When you go to the pharmacist, you must use your chip card proving that you have health coverage. You must pay the amount not covered by insurance. It should be noted that some medicines can only be provided by "attest", a paper that confirms a cheaper drug will not work. When I first started blood pressure pills, I had this horrible dry cough that wouldn't go away. Finally I was got an attest for an alternative drug, which is much more expensive. I have to have the pharmacist sign on a form each time I seek more medicine and at the end of a year I suppose I have to submit it to the ziekenfonds.

My doctor prefers generic drugs mostly, and I agree with her. I had an attest for NEXIUM which is quite expensive, but there is a cheaper product by Merck that does the trick. For me, that was fine.

If you are sick, and cannot go to work, you either must go to the doctor to get a note confirming this or the doctor must visit your home. Either way, the doctor must agree that you are not fit to work. The official form must be sent to your employer as quickly as possible. I have two workers and when they are sick, they have to get the form to me. We have to pay sick leave for workers after a couple days or so... that's my business partner's domain.

In addition to regular health insurance, I opted for "small risks" coverage as well as extra "hospitalization insurance" so that if I get very sick I can have a private room with more attention by the professionals working there. I think the "small risks" is what allows me to get extra coverage for non-life threatening situations, such as reimbursement for those office calls and prescriptions, but I am not 100% certain how it works. I do know that as a single person, who runs a business, with the extras, I pay around €100 per quarter.

Oh and I was first living in The Netherlands. When I moved to Belgium I did indeed have to wait 6 months for everyday coverage, though I was covered for accidents and emergencies. This was because I had stopped working in NL and when you don't work there you lose your insurance and are forced to buy private, which I did. Private insurance does not satisfy the requirement of being insurance for the past 6 months in another EU country.

This is all off the top of my head. Hope it helps.

Hey Y'all! You do not want a gov't run Health care program! Just from experience if there is no reward to work for- money, advancement, or whatever, the system will not work.

Wow had a lot of catching up to do, lots of great stuff to read. Been tied to Patton(my six year old) since he was diagnosed with a rash that the doctor called virus. Poor thing is covered head to toe with red splotches.

Started getting calls from the Mitt people today doing a poll on the issues- Only asked about economy, war on terror and immigration. I think I'm probably getting a bunch of calls but they come as unknown caller id so sometimes I don't answer. Not too many commercials here, but I don't expect many because the county is so blue.

I'm still torn on who to vote for loved McCains speech on Sat. night but not sure if he's my guy.

Nash- All republicans are not the devil.

Not sure who posted the comment about moderate Repub women -secretly voting Hillary-
but, most of my moderate Repub women friends would rather die than cast a vote for Hillary, that goes for all age ranges of women that I know.

tylenol....
I've mentioned this before..... all my relatives with the exception of my sister and brother are Canadian born..... my parents are now naturalized.... but are the only relatives besides a few of my father's cousins living in the US.

My relatives complain a lot about the Canadian health care system. Yes... everyone is covered..... they can get emergency care..... but they complain bitterly of waiting for long times to get appointments..... and say that such things as needing hip or knee surgery can generate as long a wait as 6 months all the while having to down lots of pain killers....

I'm not dissing your country's system...... just telling you what my relatives who live in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick have to say about it.....

KCG ,, yes sometimes difficult choice has to be made. not always easy - And we are in a RIF, layoff right now.... So curse the bad but thank you for keeping a strong company and the jobs that did stay.
Life aint always easy but it is good

OK off to work - will see if I can bust the firewall again

tylenol and harbor, i'm new. hope i'm not "suspicious" too. lol

Well the Belgium government run system works very smoothly. Waiting for services is rarely a problem and health care remains affordable. Of course Belgium is not a country where you can sue every time something doesn't go your way. That also keeps costs down. Most of all, the doctors are not part of the JET SETTERS who try to out "yacht" each other with their riches and conspicuous consumption. I rarely believe the private sector can do as good of a job as the public sector. That runs contrary to the "magic of the market" theories which have been shown time and again to not work as suggested. Economics is not a science... it is at best a set of different orthodoxies and ideologies.

nannymm, someone yesterday suggested that I was a "troll" using a different name. S/he must have been under serious scrutiny here or something. Anyway, I am me... and I am always honest about who I am and where I stand.

My bias is: Hillary 2008. I am a Clinton fan and will always be one.

http://www.myspace.com/eurotom

Cheerio.

Fry,

The reason that I say the plan in Belgium is the one best for the United States is that it is closest to the idea we have now of private insurers covering everyone in a mandatory system. The base plan is negotiated by the government for minimum cost and coverage and must be offered by all insurers which vastly reduces the costs simply through volume.

It covers drugs as well as medical care for all. It reduces the costs for government to cover the elderly, impoverished and disabled.

In addition the insurers go along with the plan simply because they are free to offer supplemental plans to handle deductibles over and above that basic plan. It reduces their risk because of volume and retains a profit center in the supplemental.

It isn't perfect, but it is a whole lot better than what we have.

nannymm

You are more than welcome. A willingness to carry on a conversation and a sense of humor seem to be the admission requirements unlike some of our recent trolls who can only spout talking points while trying to push up the Google search term numbers.

Given the money the Swiftboaters are raising, looks like this election will be a serious gunfight. Movie goers have voted for the following Top Ten Movie Weapons. I suggest the Democratic nominee bring everyone of the along:

1. Star Wars - Jedi Lightsaber

2. Dirty Harry's .44 Magnum

3. Indiana Jones's bullwhip

4. The Hanzo samurai sword used in Kill Bill

5. The chainsaw from Texas Chainsaw Massacre

6. Scaramanga's golden gun (The Man With the Golden Gun)

7. Robin Hood's bow and arrow

8. Scarface's M4A1 rifle with undermounted M203 grenade launcher

9. Star Wars - The Death Star

10. Oddjob's razor-edged bowler hat as used in Goldfinger

Nash,

If the US didn't outsource how else could afford to buy those Nikki knockoffs.

Housing is a local issue. Maybe in the area where you live housing is in a depression. That is not the case here. Housing values have kept up with inflation.

"consumers are maxed out on debt from credit cards and home equity loans on property that has declined in value". OK who put the gun to their heads and forced them to buy stuff they can't afford. I know this is a foreign term to most of you, but it is called being financially responsible.

Manufacturing base, as in washers, dryers, TV's, clothing, low end furniture, cars, steel. etc. Those things went by the road side years ago thanks to union demands and a cheaper foreign work force.

Your right our kids can't do math thanks to Liberal thought that little Johnny can't learn, and it would hurt his growth, his self-esteem if we held him back. Yeah but it may have also woke his silly ass up that in life if you want to get ahead you have to apply yourself.

Patsi,

You are so much kinder than moi. I was just going to recommend the drawing and quartering from Brave Heart.

KGC -- A quick note between classes...

"I call bullshit on the white woman black man theme"

After living south of the Mason-Dixon line for 25 years, including 8 years in Memphis, and as I

* Lived in the same neighborhood with Miss Daisy (with her hat that matched her dress and her white gloves), who also had a black chauffeur in his black chauffeur hat, uniform, and white gloves; and

* Watched the maids in uniform (including their little white hats and aprons) get off the bus in our neighborhood in the morning, and get back on it at night to go home; and

* Had a secretary who came into the office the morning after the first black mayor was elected in Memphis, and announced that she and her husband were selling their home in Memphis and were moving to the suburbs because her husband wouldn't live under a black mayor; and

* Had my brightest black college students do everything they could to move to Atlanta to get away from prejudice that was an everyday occurance in Memphis,

I can say with some authority that institutionalized racial discrimination is alive, well, and continues to shape the mindset of large segments of the population who live in the south.

thanks jamie.
thomas, i too am a clinton fan and always will be, she is my senator and a darn good one too. that is why i support her. she does what she says and she does it well. she works hard for new york and i'm sure she will work hard for the country if elected.

Spike/KGC -- I've given up even trying to figure out the race element now. It's so bizarre. Back in 2004, when my son at Vandy ran in the Dem congressional primary, a black political type jumped in to help him. (This guy actually did run a barber shop...) Since there was a black guy also running in the primary, our barbar shop friend joked to my son, "I'm gonna take you to every Baptist church, barber shop and fish fry in Nashville."

Was it a racist comment? Might be, now.

(By the way, Jim Cooper was running so all the other candidates were doomed anyway. First thing Cooper did was dip into his deep pockets for tv ads. Then, the rest of the media said since he was visible, he was viable. I like Cooper okay, too conservative, but ......okay.)

OMG Rudy Guilliani is a THUG!!! Have you folks read this??? http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/22/us/politics/22giuliani.html?ref=politics
Hardly Presidential.

Posted by: jamie
I can say with some authority that institutionalized racial discrimination is alive, well, and continues to shape the mindset of large segments of the population who live in the south.

Hey, I haven't had a chance to get on here in about 6 months.
To this Jamie I add the fact that there are ethinic differences between the black and brown votes out there. And this does come out in the votes. And to this note I have to say that I was pretty annoyed that the surrogates sent out that comment on how Clinton didn't want them to vote. This reminded me of when my mother, a born and bred American was treated poorly by her English only speaking teachers in school. Rather than teaching they used the language barrier to control them. Now this does not mean that I am pro Clinton, I have yet to make my mind up, but this is one of those things that as a Latina, I have to contemplate, even if Obama had nothing to do with it.

"I can say with some authority that institutionalized racial discrimination is alive, well, and continues to shape the mindset of large segments of the population who live in the south."

Absolutely true. A lot of people down here really are still fighting the Civil War.

Patsi,

I'm glad you finally accepted the thug theory on Guliani...;)

Jamie,

How is the plan paid for? How much will it cost per month? Who oversees the issuing and compliance?

Wait, it was me who said Guilliani is a thug.

FryDaddy: It works well in Belgium... I am sure it can work well in the USA. Details have to be worked out but if people have the political will to make it happen it will.

I am so BORED!!!!! I have an hour and a half to my next class. And I'm bumming that I missed CM in Morning' Joe. I actually miss Joe on Morning Joe. But I guess he can only be on there 20 hours a day..

Mary Ann

That was Spike's comment not mine (authors are under the comment not above). Having said that, I'm in Senator Clinton's camp as well.

FD, I'm not up on all the details, but the plans are paid for by a combination of employer and employee (see Thomas up above) except for those unemployable because of age or disability which is covered by the government. Self employed bear the whole cost. In many ways it is very similar to the U.S.

What makes it cheaper is spreading the numbers across the whole country so that EVERYONE is in the pot and the government negotiation with the insurers for drug prices and insurance companies based upon the numbers.

Patsi & Jamie....

I think we should also throw in some fembots from Austin Powers....

fry has brought up a legitimate point, IMO....
how do we pay for the changes we want in our healthcare system?....
I know in Canada it's pay for by some hefty taxes on everything you buy....
Both Rick and I have said we'd gladly pay higher taxes for guaranteed healthcare.....

I do not think Senator Clinton's addressing issues with Senator Obama makes people think of Driving Miss Daisy or even Miss Ann.

The first person to inject race as a factor for deciding your vote was Oprah Winfrey in SC.

I think the media is obsessed with race and I think most people are not.

ps
If people really think like that...it wouldn't matter what she said or did.

RR... yes, it' s true that our system isn't perfect... there can be long waits, particularly if you are not living in or near an urban center... has more to do with fewer doctors willing to work in more rural areas than it has to do with our medicare system.. There is a major shortage of general practitioners, but I'd like everyone's input.. I think the gp shortage has more to do with med students specializing than a problem with our system.. are there enough g.p.'s in the states? do rural areas have problems attracting doctors?

basic care is covered by our national health bill.. there are private healthcare providers that will "up" your coverage, i.e. private CAT scans, private rooms in case of hospitalization, things like that..but generally, the system works and works well..

my husband had an optical stroke 6 years ago... the care he received (and continues to receive) was amazing... and so many different areas of medicine: a retina specialist, a cornea specialist, an opthalmologist who not only saved his vision but the eye itself, a cardiologist, an arterial sclerosis specialist, and our gp noticed something odd about a blood test a year ago (very low hemoglobin -- dangerously low) and he now has an endoscopic surgeon who made sure his stomach lesion didnt turn into cancer.. all this on national health, and as the worried wife, I am thankful that they not only treated him, they treated me as well..with respect.

Since I get my health care from the Veterans Admin I can speak of Gov't supplied Health Care with some authority. Fort Worth Tx has a clinic that has 5 general med clincs in it with a eye clinic and a dental clinc and a physical theropy area and a pill house. There is an x-ray area and then they do all their own blood work. There is a small surgury area also. The Dallas VA hospital is huge and very busy. They say we are gonna get new clinic but they have not started to work the land for it yet.

It does take a bit of time to start getting regular appointments but once in the system you are in the system and the whole thing speeds up. I pay a part of the pill costs and a $15 co pay for visits. I don't always get the same doctor but that is because the doctors either moved on or left the profession. Had it not been for the VA I would not have ANY coverage at all.

My wife's Health Plan is not to get sick.

yo soy Horsedooty!

"Politicians are all the same" just doesn't cut it anymore. just among dems the three frontrunners have completely different plans..

tylenol,
we have a shortage of gp's and specialists here in northern new york. as a very rural community it is hard to attract and retain physicians here. we often have to travel to burlington, vt to see specialists.

KgC,

wrt racism remember what I told you Cajun's were called that you were stunned to hear? Coon Asses! That has to have its orgin in Racism but has become used as a standar slang in south Louisiana.

yo soy Horsedooty!

doot... sounds a bit like my retirement plans..mine include winning the lottery

I nearly blew a fuse in 2004 when Bush (during a debate with Kerry) went on and on about how unsafe "our" drugs were... I remember screaming something along the lines of "oh RIGHT.. we're all KEELING over because our Lipitor isnt safe!"

Here's part of the problem with health care. A few years ago, I tripped over my cat and broke my shoulder. It was early a.m. so I went to the emergency room. I was there about four hours despite the fact that few others were in the waiting area. I got a blood pressure test and an x-ray. There was only one doctor at the emergency room,and she was the one who examined me AND checked the x-ray. I received one pain pill on site.

They fooled around for awhile, then said they couldn't do anything about that kind of a break, and I should see a specialist. They then gave me a sling for the arm and a prescription for pain pills.

I had insurance, by the way. Of course, it had a high deductable and I'd not used a dime of it.

By the time I received and paid the bills the tab was over $1500. Paid for THREE doctors. I can't remember how many technicians....but there were only about six people in the whole damned place.

It then cost me about another $400 before the specialist decided not to operate, and said that I'd just heal on my own.

that's my point exactly, patsi... my husband has seen all these specialists, and not just once, and I didnt pay a dime out of pocket .. i certainly pay in taxes, but I dont have to have a wad of cash in order to see any doctor..

oh..and in our province, we have a prescription healthcare program as well..

and for the record.. this isnt about just me... everyone in canada is covered... our general health is better, our child mortality rate is lower, our general standard of living is higher..

I heard Obama say something last night.. I'm not mentioning it because Obama said it, I think either of the other two could have said it too.. but he mentioned $75,000 as some kind of line.. I'm probably telling you more than I should but our household income is somewhere between $50k and $75k and we live so incredibly well in comparison to the rest of the world.. I do indeed live in Paradise..

KgC said this, "Doots,
My parents were very strict about anything that even romotely smacked of any kind of religion, ethnic or racial prejudice. I do not think coonass even today would be able to make an appearance in the Cracker household."

that is very comendible to say the least. My point is that those words have been included into the lexicon of the south and now being called a Coon Ass has some sense of place and certainly a since of pride. It is like being called a Redneck back at the turn of the 20th Century. The term was orginally used by miners that were fighting the management and the mine owners. They put red bandanas on so everyone knew who was who. Hence the term "rednecks". Then the meaning somehow got twisted to be an insult and then in the mid 90's Jeff Foxworthy became wealthy with the word "You might be a Redneck if" was the name of his book and it is now a term of indearment again. Go figure!

yo soy Horsedooty!

KGC,
"I do not think coonass even today would be able to make an appearance in the Cracker household."

Ya know, the term "cracker" is construed by many as an ethnic slur.

KGC,
"I do not think coonass even today would be able to make an appearance in the Cracker household."

Ya know, the term "cracker" is construed by many as an ethnic slur.

Sorry for the double post. Got an error message from cq so I reposted.

Doots,
Remember that Johnny Russel classic: "Red Necks, White Sox and Blue Ribbon Beer"

dnd
I do know that in fact in the state of Fla depending upon its use it is legally hate speech.

But I guess you missed ping's explanation of what a cracker is..and that the term originated in Fla and is not an insenstive term. Our resident Floridian said no way it is a racial slur.

Doots
We agree. It's like shuck and jive. But while shuck and jive might have gotten into the Cracker household
coonass never.
And as dnd pointed out you are having this conversation with someone who calls herself a cracker.

nannymm...Sorry for the long delay before responding! Been napping. I adopted a dog a couple of days ago, and am trying to haouse train her. It's keeping me up, waking me up, etc.
*yawns and stretches*

Anyway, you most definitely are recognizable as YOU! And I'm glad you're here! There's always room for a new voice and more opinions!

Thompson out

The USA does NOT have the "best health care in the world," even if you just consider the insured. Our health care is more expensive, and OF LOWER QUALITY, than in Canada or western Europe.

Why? Because the big health care corporations don't just jack up their prices to increase profits, they also reduce quality.

NEW THREAD

thanks harbor. what kinda dog ya get? i have four, including an 11 week old black lab-siberian husky mix. he looks just like a black bear so my grandson named him bear.

Nash you got that right... I guess NEW THREAD means we should stop the discussion on health care for the moment... soooooo...

Will the Democrats be able to reunite the gender/racial interests after the nominating process in such a way as to build a winning ticket?

Thomas

"NEW THREAD" simply means there is a new posting for fresh comments. All topics are welcome. This is an open thread blog.

The Clinton's have the best punch and counter-punch in contemporary politics. And while there are some "Democratic Party Leaders" who are reaching for the smelling salts, it's only because they haven't seen a successful Presidential campaign since 1996, and forgot what one looks like.

Democrats take note: this is how Presidential campaigns are won!

As a Democrat who desperately wants a Democrat back in the White House, the Clinton's muscle-flexing gives me every confidence that the they will do what it takes to beat the GOP in the fall, something that both Gore or Kerry failed to do.

Thomas.

Just reload back to the home page. You will see a new article there and we all just pick up where we left off.

Thanks to Craig and Jamie

Political candidates should be fined each and every time they intentionally distort an opponent's records and held accountable for this kind of unethical behavior and slander. Example, Hillary's recent statement she made on Meet the Press in which she said: "Sen. Obama's chief strategist accuses me of playing a role in Benazir Bhutto's assassination.'' When in actuality David Axelrod never made such an accusation. He said former Prime Minister Bhutto's death will ''call into issue the judgment'' of ''taking the eye off the ball and making the wrong judgment in going into Iraq.'' That statement of her's is Outrageous and potentially Slanderous! After all, most of us teach our children to play fair -- not to lie, cheat and steal! The leaders we elect to office should be held to a higher standard and should be people of principal, high moral character, honest and forthright.

Second: There is a time to be silent and a time to speak. Unfortunately, Senator Obama had no choice other than to diplomatically confront the Clintons on their lies and misstatements. He cannot and could not allow them to paint a picture of him that is NOT TRUE. The Clintons' tactics are old time party politics and should be a thing of the past as we move towards the 21st Century, towards cleaner air, cleaner water, cleaner politics, towards a more holistic way of living. It is a greater duty and in the best interest of the country for Barack Obama to continue to stay positive and hopeful while attempting to clear his record from these misstatements -- as he continues to try to bring this country together and lift it up from fear and a distrust of one another -- and to continue to show the American people and the world there is another way to run for office other than smear and fear and tearing your opponent down with lies and slander -- Swiftboating! That is why Obama and Huckabee are so appealing. They are authentic and each in their own way are trying to lead the Americans away from dirty campaigning, lies and tricks. How can we as a country be blessed and be a beacon of light to others after all that ugly and dirty fighting (lies, distortions and slander) we can't be. There is a positive way -- honorable way to fight with dignity, honesty and truth and a dirty way to fight that is unethical and slanderous and without dignity.

And too, we have to ask ourselves as a people, why do we allow this unethical and negative way of campaigning to be acceptable and then reward this kind of behavior, with one of the highest offices in the land?

I don't know when the last time you were out in the country (away from DC), but what you all in DC see as the brilliant tactical maneuvering of the Clintons is picked up out here as just the same old Clintons. They won the last two primaries by tactics on the ground (dirty or not, it doesn't matter) covered over with their outrageous comments driving the media story overhead. Obama's debate performance was an effort to take the media overstory away. That' why Hill had to come and give a debate response outside the debate; after bringing the bitch back out of hiding, she tried come out and say "I'm still nice Hillary" and "He came looking for a fight." Well, he'd been in a fight all along; he just finally responded as if he were. I'm sure you think that by not laying waste in SC, the AA vote will come back to her. Think again: even without anyone on the ballot in Michigan, she lost that for good (even in NY, where the latinos are, for the most part, black latinos). This fight gets both cleaner and dirtier from here. But the Hillcamp's frustrated comment reminds me of Obama's similar comment in NH, before he went on to lose be a nose (and some Hillhelp from MA, NY, PA). Counting chickens in this contest generally precedes a loss or losses, and those upcoming Feb.5 losses will likely burn hotter for longer than any narrow defeat followed by a delegate win.

The Human Bind Weeds.
Bill & Hillary Clinton Sociopath , Pathological Liars. Human Bind Weeds. I would like to know when the press , & since NY Times endorse her , are going to inform the American people / voters about Bill & Hillary's dirty little secret , His sexual affair with Ann Coulter , when Bill was , The up & coming Gov. of AK. ??????