Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

woohoo

Go Obama

-Hip

Just saw an Obama ad locally (Georgia) I will try to give you CListers Georgia updates all the way to the Primary. I already voted last week, BTW.

I will also keep my eye on Upstate South Carolina this weekend. The county next to me (Oconee) is the birthplace of John Edwards. I expect Edwrads will carry the upstate. Wish i had more time guys. Good tp be C-listing again even on a limited basis.

-Hipster

Bill Clinton accepts dance challenge:

http://ristocrats.blogspot.com/2008/01/clinton-accepts-challenge.html

a great book about SC in absolutely hilarious short stories....."Southern Fried + 6 " ( dont know how to underline) by William Price Fox.

Another by Mr Fox: "Off the Beaten Path" Places of Interest in South Carolina.......Travel book.

Finally by Mr Fox: "Dixiana Moon" about how a Huckster hooks up with a southern evangelist who has a Religious Theme Park on the SC-Ga. state line and adds in a K-mart sized circus.

(one of those little circuses which set up in K-Mart sized parking lots around the south.......)

and while I'm at it: "Ruby Red" involving an albino Country and Western songwriter and the Nashville Tn. music industry.........

the forward to "Southern Fried" written by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

Very odd that Obama says he'd get Hillary supporters, but issue a veiled threat that she won't get his. But he's also floating that Hillary is behind those muslim emails. Now John Kerry is blaming the Clintons as well. I started getting those emails not long after he was elected to the senate. The ones that are still coming are coming from the same sources that the always have.

Hipster, I do talk to a lot of people and yes, there are many who simply will not vote for her. If we were going for the safe candidate it should have been Edwards.

But I have a question. Why are we who REACT to posts charging Clintons with all sorts of things always called "apologists" or "Clintonians" or some slightly negative term.

".."Southern Fried + 6 " ( dont know how to underline) by William Price Fox"

GREAT collection.

I remain and am proud to be an avid Clintonista.

So it goes.

Does not mean that I approve of everything they do or say, but that overall and add it all up and I am for 'em both......all the way.

Global warming my ass! It's snowed here every day for about 7 days straight! I had snow up to my knees in the parking lot at work!

I consider the Obama statement one of a spoiled, wet behind the ears brat whining that mommy and daddy are being mean.

Unlike him and anyone listening to him who might slink off for a good sulk and toe kicking in the dirt if they don't get their own way, I will vote for him if he is the nominee but it will be with full knowledge that he doesn't deserve the job but is simply what I'm offered instead of a Republican.

On MJ, all out attack on Bill Clinton. Just non-stop bashing. Never seen it worse. Guess they are getting nervous. What BC is doing must be working.

Corey: Go south, young man, go south!

sturg.... I think you mentioned those books before and I looked them up on Amazon.... they do look interesting.....

Corey..... let me play CBob for a moment.....
global warming means that some areas will have extreme weather..... not necessarily warmer weather...... some areas such as the southeastern parts of this country are experiencing a very bad drought..... but areas such as where you live and where I live are getting all the precipitation resulting in a lot of snow during this winter.....
of course..... you can always swear at the snow gods..... it might help.... :0)

Patsi... I thought the exact same thing when I saw Hipster use the word "apologists"......

Reb Ren........I mention them somewhere every year or so......they are far beyond interesting........just really superb reading pleasure.......

As I have been saying for a long time, I think Clinton/Obama '08 makes perfect sense.

And, you know what?...their body language suggests that they do not really even hate each other.

IMHO, they are just politicians being politicians...doing what they have to do and saying what they have to say, to win the nomination.

I can see Obama being a VP to Clinton(and, after 8 years, in the White House, becoming our next President).

I do not think , however, that Clinton would ever be a VP for Obama--I think her pride would prevent her from accepting the VP role.

Once again, Obama proves that he is Shrub 2.0, the arrogant, little schmo. Were he to be the nom, he would very likely NOT get my vote in the general. I would vote for someone with more experience first, even if that means not voting Dem. I think many people are tired of the two-party system & would rather vote for whomever they feel is the most capable person.

Besides, all of these social/wedge issues are piffle when it compares to the ability to do the job well. They are what keep the two-party system alive.

He still thinks he's running for class president.

can tell you that myself, some friends and family have gotten turned off by the Clinton's behaviour to do anything to win and will not vote for her if she gets the Democratic nomimnee. Their behavior and distortions like at Meet the Press in which Hilalry said: "Sen. Obama's chief strategist accuses me of playing a role in Benazir Bhutto's assassination.'' When in actuality David Axelrod never made such an accusation. He said former Prime Minister Bhutto's death will ''call into issue the judgment'' of ''taking the eye off the ball and making the wrong judgment in going into Iraq.'' and their recent attempt in voter suppresion in Nevada has shown a lot of people another side to them we did not know existed and it does not look pretty. In their quest for power at all costs, they have split the party -- there is a deep divide.

They seem more like Republicans than Democrats it is a shame to see their moral demise!

The 1980 election was when I was helping out my very liberal Republican friend running for senate in Colorado. My God, the Bush supporters hated Reagan and the fact he had the nomination. I mean they HATED Reagan.

Watched the news. They said that most Democrats have decided on which candidate they are going to vote for. Less than 50% of Republicans have decided on who they will vote for.

I also posted a few pics of our weather on my blog.

http://themitchellblog.blogspot.com/

Have a good day all!

bcangel

From the Amy Goodman interview between Amy Goodman and Tariq Ali referencing the Axelrod quote:

http://www.democracynow.org/2007/12/28/pakistan_in_turmoil_after_benazir_bhuttos

Could it be another example of the media taking a quote out of context in order to create a political storm for the sake of ratings while sacrificing the truth?

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to ask you, Tariq Ali, about this quote of Senator Barack Obama’s top campaign strategist, David Axelrod, who responded to the assassination by highlighting Hillary Clinton’s vote to support the US invasion of Iraq.

He said, quote, “Barack Obama had the judgment to oppose the war in Iraq, and he warned at the time that it would divert us from Afghanistan and al-Qaeda, and now we see the effect of that. Senator Clinton made a different judgment. Let’s have that discussion,” he said. "

Blue would have to change her name to red in Dallas if she wouldn't vote for Obama.

yo soy Horsedooty!

Obama's veiled threat is not so veiled. He exhibits the abillity to infer his views in his statements w/o actually expressing them--then cliaming that's not what he meant when challenged.

Craig--as usual you are ahead of the curve--On Imus this a.m., James Carville stated that a Clinton/Obama ticket was not beyond reason. He also mentioned Kennedy/Johnson as the example of never would happen, but did.

Of some interest, at mydd.com there is a post showing demographic breakdown of dem. voters in various upcoming primary states, it is from the Washingto Post.

I do not understand these big-name Dems. They want Bill Clinton to back-off. If Obama can not withstand light punches from BC, how could he go up against Repubs. The primary / caucus phase serves a purpose - it is a test! Obama seems to want the nomination just handed to him.

I didnt like Obama's statement either. It was a mistake for sure.

"Clinton Apologists" is just a term I use, no offense intended.Just FYI I am a lapsed Catholic. "Apologists" has a different meaning for me.

Gotta Run!

Giving Exams

-Hipster

another republican president (any one of them)

more warrantless surveillance
more neo-con supreme court judges
more attacks on Roe v. Wade
more war without end
more maimed and brain damaged vets to clog up the already saturated VA hospital system
more tax cuts for the rich instead of the middle class
more arrogant absolute disregard for the constition of our country
more USA torture of humans

anyone wish to add to this abbreviated list?

Here is the link to the WaPo demographic figures

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/behind-the-numbers/2008/01/demos_for_next_dem_primaries.html

"Clinton Apologists" is just a term I use, no offense intended.Just FYI I am a lapsed Catholic. "Apologists" has a different meaning for me."

ROFL, Hipster!

Blue - reconsider.....come November we all need to be there.

Once again, Craig is out in front of the shallow conventional wisdom that passes for analysis in the MSM.

The conventional wisdom is that Hillary & Barak hate each other so much that both on the same ticket would be impossible.

But Eisenhower picked Nixon as VP, even though he loathed him.

Sturgeone

More incompetent cronies running important agencies
More destruction of the environment for profit
More gay and feminist bashing in military with discharge of useful personnel for no reason.
More disregard of diplomacy when bombs will do

Next ...

What is the tab for Iraq so far and how much per month? We wish to continue throwing billions to republican operatives with no bid contracts? we wish to allow the Blackwater mercenaries to grow and perhaps become active on American soil? How much more money can we borrow from China that the taxpayers (Us) have to pay off?

reagan picked george HW (voodoo economics) bush as VP

Just some FYI for you guys. I am trying to get facts now. For the next couple of weeks I am going to stay quiet until I know what I can say are facts. here are some;

FactCheck.org On Clinton's Claim Obama Represented Rezko: "That's Untrue." Factcheck.org reported, "Obama was associated with a law firm that represented the community groups working with Rezko on several deals. There's no evidence that Obama spent much time on them, and he never represented Rezko directly. So it was wrong for Clinton to say he was 'representing ... Rezko.' That's untrue." [FactCheck.org, 1/21/08]

Chicago Tribune Review Of "Land And Court Document And Law Firm Files As Well As Correspondence And Other Records...Supports [Obama's] Contention That He Did Not Directly Represent Rezko's Development Firm." The Chicago Tribune reported, "Obama angrily rejected Clinton's accusation at Monday's Democratic debate. And a Tribune review of land and court documents and law firm files as well as correspondence and other records related to Obama's eight years as an Illinois state lawmaker supports his contention that he did not directly represent Rezko's development firm. Instead, the records show, he represented non-profit community groups that partnered with Rezko's firm." [Chicago Tribune, 1/23/08]

And More:

Tribune Examined Miner Barnhill's "260 Civil And Criminal Cases," IHDA And DOH Files, Clients From Obama's "Unusually Frank Ethics Disclosure Reports" And Found Obama Represented The Non-Profit Partner. The Chicago Tribune reported, "At the Tribune's request, Cook County Circuit Court Chief Judge Timothy Evans produced a list of all 260 civil and criminal cases in which the firm filed appearances, and the Tribune separately examined 1990s lawsuits that Rezmar Corp. listed in applications for government grants. The paper also examined files from the Illinois Housing Development Authority and the city housing department, as well as the hundreds of clients Obama listed in the unusually frank ethics disclosure reports he filed as a state senator from December 1995 through April 2004. Those and other records disclosed five instances in which Obama did legal work for ventures that included Rezmar Corp. The case of City of Chicago vs. Central Woodlawn Limited Partnership is one example. In 1992, that community group partnered with Rezmar Corp. to rehab the former slum apartment building at 6107-6115 S. Ellis Ave. As work was ongoing, city officials sued the developers, alleging 16 serious code violations at the property, including a dangerously dilapidated porch. Obama and a co-counsel filed appearances in February 1994, but the court records show they appeared on behalf of Central Woodlawn, Rezko's non-profit partner, not Rezko or his company." [Chicago Tribune, 1/23/08]

Washington Post Fact Check: "Investigations By Chicago Newspapers Have Not Produced Evidence That [Obama] Represented Rezko In A Slum Landlord Business." The Washington Post reported, "William Miceli, Obama's supervisor at the law firm, said the firm represented the Woodlawn Preservation and Investment Corp., a nonprofit group that redeveloped a run-down property on Chicago's South Side with Rezko. He called Clinton's assertion that Obama represented Rezko in a slum landlord business 'categorically untrue. He was a very junior lawyer at the time, who was given responsibility for basic due diligence, document review,' said Miceli, adding that Obama did what he was told by the firm. According to Miceli, that was the only time Obama worked on a Rezko-related project while at the law firm…But investigations by Chicago newspapers have not produced evidence that he represented Rezko in a slum landlord business. What has been demonstrated so far is that he did some due diligence legal work for a joint venture between Rezko and a Chicago nonprofit. Two Pinocchios for Clinton." [Washington Post, 1/22/08]

MINER: OBAMA DID MINOR WORK REPRESENTING THE NON-PROFIT

Miner: Obama Filed Incorporation Papers For The Non-Profits. The AP reported, "Attorneys there say Obama never represented Rezko directly. The future senator did represent community organizations that were Rezko partners in rehabilitating buildings to provide apartments for the poor…Judson Miner, a partner in the firm, said that Obama's role was small. He said Obama did perhaps six or seven hours of work on such projects, mainly filing incorporation papers for the nonprofit groups." [AP, 1/22/08]

Obama Said That Miner Barnhill "Was Representing The Non-For-Profit Partner, Where There's No Allegations That They Did Anything Wrong." Obama said, "My law firm was representing the non for profit partner, where there's no allegations that they did anything wrong. They were simply trying to develop non for profit housing in the district." [Fox News, 4/24/07]

Obama Said That Miner Barnhill Was "Brought In Through [The Non-Profits], Not Through Rezko." The Chicago Tribune reported, "Responding to a Chicago Sun-Times report that Obama's former law firm did legal work for Rezko's low-income housing development business, the Illinois senator said he performed five hours of work on behalf of non-profit housing groups that partnered with Rezko. 'We were brought in through them [the non-profits], not through Rezko,' Obama said." [Chicago Tribune, 4/24/07

So Obama is ageist too.. pity

sheila.......the house and vacant lot deal is still somewhat fishy........has Obama explained that one?
Im not bad-rapping him, just wish for some explication on it........

What has happened to all the love. Why is the first Black American president under a constant barrage of scandalous attacks by the D party?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080124/ts_alt_afp/usvote2008_080124055521

Sorry, you guys know I don't do long posts often. But didn't want to do one at a time either Craig.

:0) Good to be home, if only for a week.

Hipster, you have to know how good it is to have a very smart Obama man on this list. Thank you for making points.

On to work and Saturday!

Craig, your analysis is brilliant as usual but it is too complicated for little ole' me. Oh! fiddle dee dee, I'll think about it tomorrow. Frankly, Obama and Clinton, my dears, I don't give a darn!!!

Obama is a nice guy but he wasn't ready for prime time. He needs seasoning. (Basil perhaps).

Edwards had his shot in 2004 and the Republicans beat him up and took his lunch money.

Clinton is a rat, but she is OUR rat.

Is there anyone I have not offended?

Craig, did you say .....shotgun..... or .....shogun....!

I will keep looking, but for now, I have to get ready for work. MY BED was fantastic last night....yea yea, I know it sounds like a sexual thing,,,,,,but at my age LOL I think there is a point in that!

BTW, I've lost 30 pounds and holding.

Craig, I gained aweful weight after I quit smoking. But I kept saying if eating (Cause it really tasted good really tasting it for the first time in YEARS) is going the keep me from smoking, then so be it.

Now since, i finally felt strong enough, the weight is coming off even at my age.

I am on to another 30 now. 30 pounds that I've have for 10 years. So We shall see if these long held love handles will shed as eaily. ;0)

sounds correct to me, nash......(which, admittedly doesnt mean much,) but still.......

yeah nash what about Romney?

Oh nash!

Keep it up! Its great to have the Snarky you back!

sturgeone: Latest estimates say that the Iraq war costs us $500,000 a MINUTE. Estimated total long-term costs of the war, including care of disabled vets, $2Trillion.

I'm glad that we won't be spending any of that on education, health care, infrastructure, R&D, etc. That would be the "wasteful government spending" that McCain is always whining about.

Frydaddy

Why dont you worry about your own party? You always have something to say about the party you care nothing about.

You have really set of creeps over there on GOP side except for Paul and McCain. Thats a real set of scumbags.

Very typical of rank and file Republicans, always running those BIG FAT mouths about the Democratic party.

There's "some love" for you, Captain America.

-Hipster

Th Clintons are dirty tricks politicians who will do anything for votes. They can't be trusted as they have no integrity. Barack doesn't need her and if he ever took the VP slot with her in the campaign he would end up carrying her water. They are disgusting vitriolic people who have no place in public life. If this is the best the U.S. can come up with is them WE ARE IN BIG TROUBLE. Give me McCain. Integrity, honesty and valor all the way.....

"Obama's former law firm did legal work for Rezko's low-income housing development business, the Illinois senator said he performed five hours of work on behalf of non-profit housing groups that partnered with Rezko"

You know if you switch the names and dates around, this has a familiar sound to it: Rose Law Firm, Hillary and Bill Clinton, Whitewater, or Tyson Foods environmental polluting problems.
Witch hunting D style. LMAO You have got to love it. Well I do at any rate. :-)

Just as Clinton made a big deal about the Obama/Rezco association and the purchase of the Obama home so Obama made a big deal about Clinton being on the Wal-Mart Board of Directors.

On the face of things both of these look like negatives.

Once you dig, Obama probably showed bad judgement about the real estate present, but the majority of his work was to benefit a needed non profit in relation to Rezco.

Clinton sat on the board of Wal-Mart at the time they were one of the major employers in the area and in a position to do massive employment as well as making huge contributions to her activities with the Children's Defense fund.

Politics Make Strange Bedfellows and both Clinton and Obama have been to bed with some not nice folks.

Nash, Yer killin' me! ROFL!

Sheila -- Congrats on the weight loss!

I so disagree with Skylark about the Clintons. Mrs, Clinton stands miles above the other candidates. She is a woman with integrity, passion and a desire to right the wrongs that have been done in our country in the last 8 years.

500,000 dollars a minute......can anyone here even understand that? I cant. half a million a minute.
It's totally insane.
Totally.
Insane.

it's also obscene........

Sheila: Keep up the good work & get healthy. You are the last surviving member of the earliest days of Crawfordslist.

Fry
did you support the Hedge fund manager Mitt
did you support the man who confuses church and state
did you support the grandpa fred
which of losers if yours

Obama will not accept the number two spot
and when he loses he will take his supporters and go home. he has already said he won't run again.

I'm getting to LIKE MoJo, and Mika, and Willie.

Are there treatment programs or support groups I can contact?

KGC

I suspect Captain America is pretty much Anti-Everything and just supports whoever has an (R) by the name, no questions asked.

I pity the person who puts a party ahead of their country

BTW...Craig--because of your column, this morning, I suddenly have(what I like to call) "politi-cred", with my husband!!

He is a real political junkie. Until this morning, he has just rolled eyes, patted my head and smiled sweetly at me, whenever I have suggested that Clinton/Obama could be a possibility for '08!!

I read your blog to him, before he was even out of the shower(TMI?)and then said..."Uh-huh...now what?"...LOL!!

So, thanks Craig...you made my day!! :)

Well Hipster suck it up, I am hoping McCain becomes the R's nominee, and lets see who the American people back. Hillary or McCain, Obama or McCain. Tough choice there. lmao. Hills my D pick, but McCain will clean her clock. And you know the D's are very worried about McCain. They know that Americans, that is real Americans, won't stand for a POW, a war hero being attacked, by the Clintons. Especially if Bill comes after McCain in the same fashion he is going after Obama. The Clinton's won't want to dredge up that old draft question again will they. lol Oh no they won't!

Right, like McCain is such a magic bullet for the R's...

Jamie--Thanks for providing a link to the Washington Post info. I confess I do not know how to link posts.

Coreen

Fry........my neo-con buddy here calls McCain and his supporters McCainiacs........doesnt mean he wont vote for him, of course.......but if you think McCain has a chance to be president of the united states you are simply delusional......

Obama does not speak spontaneously
he knew his statements on the Pat Roberrtson network were designed to cause trouble

and it worked. I predict the Democrats will whistle past dixie and nominate a winner Hillary Clinton

Fry supports McCain
the republican the real republicans hate

I'm with Katherine!!!

McCain, Giuliani, & Huckabee are broke. Super rich Romney is going to buy the nomination. If he wins FL, it's over.

Right now I think it will be Hillary vs Romney.

KG,

Do you support the hedge fund worker John "PB" Edwards?
Do you support the people who use the term church and state and then make reference to the constitution? You'll not find it there.
New Alert for KG. Fred is not running.

I know you live in the boonies but how can you be so far out of touch with current events?

the christian ultra right will stay home if it's romney.....let's see him win without them......lol

Populist Huckabee was sounding a bit MARXIST last night accusing Romney of looting US companies, firing the workers, and moving the funds to "offshore accounts."

And Wall Street replied, "What's wrong with that?"

fry

no one really cares what you think or who you supported cuz we can get your talking points straight from the horse's as-

fry
ask rush what is the concept of'
"separation of church and state"

or is it Hannity that you get your crap from

Fry

Good then you said you were with McCain.
All-

Otherwise New SC attack ad in SC for Obama vs. Clinton, rough stuff

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/01/obama-ad-shell.html

Hipster

Sheila: Apparently, Obama had some sort of long-term relationship with this guy. Often facts do not matter, it is about perception. The " guilt by association " smear can be used against Obama.

my problem with Obama is the pretense that he is different from other pols...he is not

I agree with Fry that McCain is the GOP's best shot. Hell, he is their only shot.

People like McCain. he matches up well with Clinton. Don't ked yourselves, the GOP will come home if hillary is nominated.

Then Fry and the Republicans can sit in Iraq for "100 years," because "that will be fine with" John McCain. His words not mine.

-Hipster

McCain is my man. The R party will rally around him. What are they going to do vote for Hillary or Obama? LMAO.

OMG KG, we actually agree on something. Hillary will be the D's nominee, but I have been saying that from the day she entered the race. Not like a lot of these Johnny come lately types. Biden would have made for a better race, but no one wants to buy his message. Maybe it is because when he smiles he clenches his teeth. Wonder if he has TMJ?

hip
I call baloney on that statement all the evidence points otherwise.

Coreen

On this website, links are easy. You go to the page you want to link. You right click on the URL (address of the page at the top) and then left click "copy". You come back here, put your cursor in the box and left click on paste.

You can do the same for blocks of text, but most people prefer the link to read on their own rather than wading through large blocks of material that might not interest them.

Hope those instructions are clear, but if not just mention where you saw something, and someone here will usually go get it for you.

KGC

Which statement are you baloneying?

Hip

I baloney the statement that only Hillary makes the gop come home...

in fact I think Senator Clinton has a shot at this group

"November 28, 2007, 6:19 pm
G.O.P. Pro-Choice Group Releases Anti-Romney Ads
By Michael Luo

A Republican abortion-rights group is set to begin an advertising offensive against Mitt Romney on Sunday in Iowa and New Hampshire, attacking him as a flip-flopper on the issue.
The group, Republican Majority for Choice, will begin airing a 30-second spot in both states that highlights some of Mr. Romney’s past statements on abortion, starting with the clip that has been around for months on YouTube from his U.S. Senate campaign against Senator Edward M. Kennedy when he pledged to support abortion rights."

and I don't think either Edwards or Obama would be as appealing.

KGC
They hate her. What makes you think they won't come out of the woodwork? Dont you remember the 90's? the crude Visceral accusations? Ken Starrrrrrrrr? Gingrich? The preposterous lies they cooked up? This is all baggage they can trot out. These people are lunatics about the Clintons. The day after the 1992 election in Mississippi, we got torrential downpours and one of them told me the Lord made it rain in America because Bush lost. The guy was completely serious…

Of course I pointed out to him that it only rained in the states that didn’t vote for Clinton

Hip

the anit clinton people make two arguements which contradict each other...

either they are the people the right hates the most
or they are the people who compromised with the right the most.

so which is it

k..here's the thing.. if you seriously CARE about where the country is at... are really pissed off at the madmen who have been making policy for the past 8 years, think.. SERIOUSLY THINK.. before you decide NOT to support the dem nominee, no matter who it is.. parking your vote somewhere else just doesnt make sense..

well hip you are dreaming if you think that is't going to happend to any democratic party candidate
2004
did you forget the swiftboating of Kerry
the sex rumors
the horrible treatement of his wife
Imus called Elizabeth Edwards fat

mornin' all.

Hipster, for cryin' out loud. You sound like Obama now. Imopugning your guy's critics instead of explaining why they are wrong. It's hard not to misinterpret apologist if it's being used with a non noffensive connotation. Of course, Plato was the original apologist, but the term has morphed in today's vernacular to fit people like Dana Perino much more closely than Plato. I still want him to explain how 5 years of support for every Iraq war funding bill is not inconsistent wiht his assertion that he opesed the war from the start and distinguishes his record on the wr from Hillary's - at the start, perhaps - from the start - unh, uh,

I find Obama's statement that he will get all of Hillary's votes, but the question is whether Hillary will get his to be incredibly arrogant. He's won a caucus and is set to win a primary. She's won a caucus and a primary. Sounds kind of even to me. Let'ssee how cocksure he is on Feb. 6.

Craig, apparently Edwards doesn't buy your strategy that Hillary could lose SC more or less intentionally.

http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/01/23/edwards-critical-of-clintons-absence-in-south-carolina/

I got a question for you John - what are you going to tell the voters in NY, CA and all the 2/5 states you didn't visit while you were grubbing for votes in SC about your concern for them? Will you tell them that you were desperate for a win there, so you chose to ignore them?

http://www.thestate.com/presidential-politics/story/294810.html

Folks, I'm beginning to think Clinton/Richardson on the Dem side. Yeah, the unlikely pair of Clinton/Obama is intriguing, but I just can't get my mind around Barack being that practical.

KGC

Ok for me the direct answer is BOTH. She tries to be a centrist but she is the one they hate the most. Right-Wingers are like gangsters or prison inmates. A sign of kindness is a sign of weakness to them.

Or look at it like this, to a religious nut (and those folks are the GOP base) compromise is an actual sin. Thats why they hate her.

Thats the best answer I can give, but thats just speaking for me.

Hip

I've upset a male Republican acquaintance horribly by saying a lot of Republican women in the privacy of the voting booth will vote Clinton and then lie through their teeth to their husbands. :-)

Pogo,

I sound like Obama?

Thanks. I like the man.

:-)

Hip

Richardson would be a very, very good running mate, especially for Clinton

Hip

i agree, jamie.. and then sit there with little smug smiles on election night..

I don't think Christie Todd Whitmann is going to vote for some Shrub wannabe

nash, try again, you haven't offended me :)

sturg, move over, there's room enough in the boatfor me.

If it comes to pass that John McCain is the Rep. nominee, it will be interesting to see if they do
rally around him or just maybe check out & stay home. The open hatred of McCain by the movement conservatives' lead spokesman (Limbaugh) is on daily display & he continues to state that so far McCain has not won with Rep. votes so the issue is moot.

Just maybe the Florida primary will at least settle the issue of whether McCain can actually win a majority of Rep. votes.

Hipster,

You are speaking about a very vocal but rather small segment of the Republican voters. In Congress, it is the Republican senators who praise Clinton for her ability to get things done through bi-partisan legislation.

As with any negotiation, you win some and you lose some, but the only way to move things forward is for everyone to feel as if they got something out of the deal.

If you want to be an idealistic martyr to a cause, you will probably eventually get much of what your want done after years and years of beating on the walls, you just won't get elected.

Suffragettes starved to death for years before women finally got the vote, but while that was going on, women were getting men to enact more and more legislation that favored women's rights.

That is why the dreamers need the doers and vice versa.

In this day and age, why would a woman have to lie to her husband(or anyone)about the candidate for whom she voted?

and while we are quibbling something really important is going on.,.....
FISA and neither Obama or Clinton is stepping up

http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/24/fisa-battle-stand-and-be-counted/#comments

Linda

Why would women lie?

Peace in the family.

I know there are times my wife lets me rant and rave.
She just smiles and nods. Stupid me I take that as agreement, when all she is doing is waiting for the storm to blow over.

Jack

KG,

Education time for KG. Apparently KG you slept though 10th grade US history. As to the ref. of church and state. The phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear anywhere in the Constitution. To clarify, that would be the U.S. Constitution. Please read the following and become better informed American.

In 1802 Thomas Jefferson responded to a letter from the Danbury Baptist Association, Danbury Connecticut. They complained that in their state, the religious liberties they enjoyed were not seen as immutable rights, but as privileges granted by the legislature. Jefferson's reply did not address their concerns about problems with state establishment of religion - only of establishment on the national level. The letter contains the phrase "wall of separation between church and state," which led to the short-hand for the 1st Amendment, Establishment Clause:

(Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.) that we use today: "Separation of church and state."

LIL

Do you remember the Huckabee quote about a woman's position in relation to her husband? There are times when discretion is the better part of valor and peace on the home front is often worth a small lie about a check in a box.

Fry

read the 1st amendment again.

Hip

There IS seperation of church and state, and there should be. Its good for both

NOT JMHO

Hip

Isn't the ultimate goal of all those of us who despise what has been going on in this country for the last 7+ years to DESTROY the stranglehold this administration & its cohorts have had?

While we may each align with particular candidates, in the end we can not afford to falter & allow this opportunity to pass--it would be another long, long 4 years to suffer! That thought should always take precedence over our individual problems with any of the dem. candidates.

On MJ, there was something about Obama claiming to have accidentally pushed the wrong button when voting ( IL senate ). Just caught part of the conversation. Has anyone heard about this?

Geez Craig,
More doom and gloom predictions for the Dems, and again your pro Hillary bias is showing. I didn't see Obama's statement as "I'll take my toys and go home", I saw it as a warning that HillCo's attack dog tactics and race baiting tactics as a serious threat to Democratic unity.

And blueindallas, you live in Texas, a state highly unlikely to vote Democratic in November no matter who the Democratic nominee is. In other words, take your toys and run away, it doesn't matter if you become a turn coat or not.

fry

you are a marooon

I hear you Coreen

Hip

THE BILL OF RIGHTS
The first ten amendments to the Constitution of the United States of America are known as the Bill of Rights. By beginning with the following words in the First Amendment the framers established their primary concern regarding the relationship of church and state:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

gee fry
maybe you should have gone to school in the north

Here's the story on the Obama "oops" votes

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-obamavotes24jan24,1,7079399.story

One of the clearest defenses of the doctrine was made by our first Catholic president in a speech before the Ministerial Association of Greater Houston (Texas) on September 12, 1960:

I believe in an America where the separation of Church and State is absolute, where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be a Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote, where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference, and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him. John F Kennedy

Our founding fathers wanted to avoid the kind wars that had been fought for centuries in the name of religion:

The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries. James Madison

Surprisingly, my 80 something mother-in-law from Indiana, a life long D. will not vote for Obama if he is the D nominee. Can't do it, won't do it. This feeling seems to be very common among older white Ds. Another group of Ds who won't vote for Obama are the Hispanic voters. The young voter, college student, the 18 to 27 year olds, blacks seems to be Obama biggest block of supporters. They are also the ones who vote less often. I am still standing behind my D ticket of Hillary-Richardson. After this Saturday if he has any sense(?) Edwards will never run again. Depending on how badly Hillary loses in 2008, she too may never run again. Obama will run again, and will be elected president in 2024. I have changed my R ticket. It was McCain Huckabee, or Rudy-Huckabee. It will be McCain-Rudy. McCain will be a 1 term president and Rudy will be a 2 term president. After that I won't have to care. :-o

Fry is arguing both the "States' Rights" and the "Free Exercise clause" of the first amendment. After scads and scads of court cases all the way to the Supremes, there is now a sort of agreed upon compromise, but the ground could shift again.

No one in an "official" position in government or by employment can advocate the practice of any particular religion in a public space.

Individuals are free to exercise their religion in a public space as long as it does not interfere with the rights of other citizens. So a church group can put up a creche in a park, but they can't prevent the symbols of other religions.

The group of kids can pray by the flag pole or before a football game, but no teacher can lead the prayers and they are not allowed to bully, intimidate or demote any other student for not participating. No child may be coerced in any practice not of their religion ... lots of fussing still going on about this aspect.

Congress can have a chaplain, but nobody has to listen to him/her. :-)

Thanks Fry for your soothsaying.

Now, tell me...

Who is going to win the Super Bowl 10 years from now?

:-)

Hip

I think Obama needs HRC support more than she needs his. Obama's core support is more faithful to the Democrat party and will for the most part vote along the party line.
Her voters have a habit of being more independent and splitting their tickets. Also this America and he is black. To win he can't afford to piss anybody off.

As far as the 30%ers on the right, that hate HRC , write them off they are not relevant. They are just noise.

while the 2%ers on the left are more relevant and they are the ones that might not support HRC as Obama pointed out. They are going to have to decide: do they want to be on a winning team or do they want to sit on the sidelines and whine. The only winning team they have a chance with is the Democratic nominee.

Jack

Wow color me surprised, a member of Fry's family is a racist.

Fry,

I am saving that prediction just for the sheer joy of going

nyah nyah
nyah
nyah nyah

the day after the tickets are set and then on election day (just in case one of your teams actually exists.)

Being in the South it is extremely interesting to see Jack, Jamie, etc say that the anti-Clinton people are just noise. Maybe my thinking on this is skewed by being surrounding by so many loonies.

Hip

Back in the 60's, I can remember that couples(my parents, included)would always vote for the candidate that the man chose(or maybe the woman lied). It seems that "the little woman" could not be trusted to make her own decision. I believe, the thinking was that, if they voted for different men, then their votes would cancel each other out.

I can't believe that, in 2008, people actually lie(to their spouses/SO)about their choices.

I wonder how Maria/ Arnold, Mary/James, etc., handle their differing political views? Do you think they lie to each other?

hip

nothing personal but the Dems can whistle past dixie

Mrs. Hip and I always ote as a team.

I beg to differ KGC, they need to take a shot at Virginia and Florida at minimum

Hip

"vote" as a team

LiL

Maria and Mary are way too politically active to be hidden about their preferences in public, but even they might be completely different in relation to their husbands and/or in the voting booth.

In real life, the "way things should be" and the "way they are" are frequently two different animals.

Absolutely not!

We have to think beyond the campaign. We have to have a President and VP who actually like each other, as in the Clinton-Gore years, and not one in which there's no love lost, as with Kennedy and Johnson.

No, Clinton-Clark is my dream ticket.

if my hybby ever votes repug, he'd better lie about it or he's gonna get VERY hungry!! LOL

http://www.whistlingpastdixie.com/

let me know when the south is done re enacting the civil war

LOL

I take it the Mr. nannymm mostly says "Yes Dear".

Jack

One more thing. On the news this morning they said that Hillary or Obama would easily beat all Republican candidates in a election. All Republicans except McCain. If it was McCain , Hillary would win , but it would be very close. McCain and Obama would be virtually even.

Damn, lost a post - forgot to save it. Nutz.

Skylark - got get a remote and change from Sean, Rush and Fox. Jesus H.

Hip, I know you like Obama, and will vote for him if he beats Clinton, but its the "Impugning your guy's critics instead of explaining why they are wrong" part that is uncharacteristic for you. I'm just glad you could figure the post out with all its typos. Gotta start using Preview I guess.

Sturg, do we clintonistas need to wear a beret or something? Camo maybe? Let's make sure whatever we wear it doesn't make our butts look big.

Fry if you're right about McCain cleaning anyones' clock, it will defy most of the current polls.

http://pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm

Lush, I don't think my mom and dad voted the same all the time although they were both social conservative, but I never heard them discuss politics. Of course growing up in the age of the Dixiecrats, there were no liberal options on the dem ticket at the state level.

kc, the south will never stop re-encting the Civil War-

Corey - the newsies are just reflecting the polls

kc - the South doesn't consider FL to be part of the South - at least not FL south of Jacksonville, but I think FL is pivotal - too meany electoral vvotes to ignore it.

Well, I am thrilled that Jim's and my political differences do not disrupt the harmony in our home!!

We could not be happy, if we felt we had to lie to each other(when it comes to politics) . ;)

wasn't it McCain that showed his wit and wisdom by trying to sing something he learned from the Rush Limbaugh Show? I seem to remember him singing "Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran". Limbaugh has been using that song for nearly 10 years now.

yo soy Horsedooty!

I gotta laugh at all of you talking about the women in your family having to lie about who they voted for.

I can easily imagine a woman in my family fibbing about the cost of a bracelet or new sofa, but not about their vote.

I well remember the JFK/Nixon contest. My Republican father told my JFK-loving mother that since they'd just cancel out each other's votes they might as well sit out the election. She agreed. Then they ran into each other at the polls.

Horse,

Yes, McCain did sing that and its on video, would make a handy commercial to show him as a bit of a loose cannon. Hillary's people just might have enough temerity to do it.

He's also the guy who says it would be "fine with him" if we stayed in Iraq 100 years.

-Hip

LOL @ Brian!!

That's exactly what I was thinking when I typed..."(when it comes to politics). ;)"

Pogo

The polling Report numbers are popular vote. Do we have any numbers by state to reflect Electoral Votes?

It think the Republicans are in for a sad surprise on the electoral, but it could be close.

Patsi JFK-Tricky story

hahahaha

I love it!

-Hip

If you're all so worried about McCain you should vote for Edwards, he's the only one who consistently beats McCain in a head to head with a comfortable margin.

hmmm...i'd never lie to paul bout what i spend on jewelry or furniture. don't have to. we have our own "don't ask; don't tell" policy. he doesn't ask; and i never tell. has made for a very happy marriage these past 23 yrs.

KG,

Read the 1st amendment. In simple states the government will not form a national religion, they gov't will not be in the religion making business, but it will protect the freedom of it citizens to practice their own religion. In other word KG, you can freely worship Anubis, the jackal-like god of judgment, from the Book of the Dead.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I find it amusing that if someone is against Obama, they are charged with being racist.

I think we basically lie to each other about everything but politics!! LOLOLOL!!

It has worked for us, after all these years!!

jamie, I'm not aware of any source tracking electoral votes based on current poll results.

brian - Edwards' head to head advantage over McCain is dated to before McCain's recent good political fortunes - curent polls don't reflect that.

Katherine, love your post. I have an unusual fondness for our Constitution. James Madison was right, if there is no separation of church and state, religion could in fact be a prerequisite for war, as is the case with Iraq. As for the presidential candidates on both sides, only Obama understood this concept. Therefore, he understands America as our founders envisioned it, separation of church and state and respect for the separation of powers is the cornerstone of our democracy.

Obama was always right on Iraq because he read the Federalist Papers. He understands and respects our Constitution. Our founders granted power under the Constitution to the people not corporations. Iraq is a corporate war under the disguise of religion. By the way, Craig, I think he would be a great addition to the democratic ticket if he holds a large amount of delegates at convention time.

Okay. I've found a candidate even more deserving of a vote than Hillary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6yn1-B3YHc

Hipster -- Politics was a huge topic of conversation in our house. Everything from local contests to state and federal to Vietnam to hippies. The cool thing about my parents was that they never made any of their offspring agree with them. If you had an argument you got heard.

I also remember the first time I met congressional candidate Bob Dole. He and a party guy came to the house.

Bob said, "Charlie, I understand you are key to the money in this part of the county."

My dad said, "Well Bob, I don't have any of it. But I can sure as hell get it for you."

Ah politics!

well the SChip veto override has failed again in the House. Gotta love those "compassionate conservatives." They're all heart (less)

Pogo,

According to the always correct MSNBC, McCain is leading in FL. If he wins FL, he will be the R's nominee. And here is a new flash for you about Rush. When Rush starts saying that Newt isn't conservative enough, then that tells me Rush is on the wrong track, much like the ideology of the Far Whacked Out Liberal Left. But Rush will vote, won't like it, but he'll vote for the R's nominee, even if it is McCain.

Off to lunch.

Jamie

That's hilarious!!

LOLOL(snort)LOLOLOL!!

Who in the world listens to Rush Limbaugh and expects to be taken seriously?

Hip

KGC posted a link to an article about this group yesterday....here's one thing that'll be coming at Hillary....

http://www.citizensunitednottimid.org/

fried

or be free to worship NOTHING AT ALL abd be free from anyone else's idea of religion

FryDaddy is Rush really the voice of Republicans. I find him very divisive and negative. Surely, most Republicans are the opposite of Rush.

Craig, at last. A debate at FAU in Boca. Can you hobble there or not?

tt

Billary is willing to take down the party in order to get elected. Obama needs to get them out of his head by ignoring them and refusing to comment on anything either of them say in this media perpetrated debacle. Naturally, the MSM wants to see Hillary nominated so they can have a tabloid orgasm bringing up Monicagate again. GO OBAMA GO!!!!!!!

See you troops

Back to the real world

Hipster

Patsi'

Roger Stone is a frequent msgop guest especially on the Tucker Carlson show....I am sure he will be again and there will be lots of craptastic coverage..

we will have the mayor of looneyville all titalated and his tv wife all appalled but they will give it lots of play
because ,msgop had devoled into nothing but white male locker room crap

True Cydney, which is why i say no more Clintons.

Amen Cydney, amen. This has been Craig's theme as of late, anyone who challenges Hillary is a threat to the Dems. He like the Clintons themselves seem to be under some illusion that Hillary is an incumbent and dare not be challenged.

the alternate view of reality

if someone doesn't see the world the way you do
they are prejudiced or wrong.

Not prejudiced, but yes frequently wrong, LOL

Patsi

Here is the TPM write up on Citizens United

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/005124.php

I'm sure these two groups can handle them. In fact they might take to proudly wearing the T-Shirt

See next message due to three link rule

http://www.bitchmagazine.org/
http://www.heartless-bitches.com/

Fry, good to know that one party thinks FL will determine its nominee. I haven't really followed the reps' races closely, but certainly McCain's 'mo hasn't escaped me. Does he have the money to compete in SDT? And Fry, Rush is too pure for my tastes and he believes his own BS - of course he acts more like the godless and morals-less social liberals of old than a conservative - kind of like Rudi.

Hip, apparently Skylark thinks listening to Rush doesn't preclude being taken seriously. As do a few other folks - Fry from tme to time, I'm sure.

Cyndey, with all due respect, that's ridiculous.

New Edwards commercial for SC.

http://www.johnedwards.com/watch/native-son-movie/

consider this for your motto

"Never in doubt often wrong"

NY Times: Voters are in a "dark mood"