Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

woohoo

Go Obama

-Hip

Just saw an Obama ad locally (Georgia) I will try to give you CListers Georgia updates all the way to the Primary. I already voted last week, BTW.

I will also keep my eye on Upstate South Carolina this weekend. The county next to me (Oconee) is the birthplace of John Edwards. I expect Edwrads will carry the upstate. Wish i had more time guys. Good tp be C-listing again even on a limited basis.

-Hipster

Bill Clinton accepts dance challenge:

http://ristocrats.blogspot.com/2008/01/clinton-accepts-challenge.html

a great book about SC in absolutely hilarious short stories....."Southern Fried + 6 " ( dont know how to underline) by William Price Fox.

Another by Mr Fox: "Off the Beaten Path" Places of Interest in South Carolina.......Travel book.

Finally by Mr Fox: "Dixiana Moon" about how a Huckster hooks up with a southern evangelist who has a Religious Theme Park on the SC-Ga. state line and adds in a K-mart sized circus.

(one of those little circuses which set up in K-Mart sized parking lots around the south.......)

and while I'm at it: "Ruby Red" involving an albino Country and Western songwriter and the Nashville Tn. music industry.........

the forward to "Southern Fried" written by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

Very odd that Obama says he'd get Hillary supporters, but issue a veiled threat that she won't get his. But he's also floating that Hillary is behind those muslim emails. Now John Kerry is blaming the Clintons as well. I started getting those emails not long after he was elected to the senate. The ones that are still coming are coming from the same sources that the always have.

Hipster, I do talk to a lot of people and yes, there are many who simply will not vote for her. If we were going for the safe candidate it should have been Edwards.

But I have a question. Why are we who REACT to posts charging Clintons with all sorts of things always called "apologists" or "Clintonians" or some slightly negative term.

".."Southern Fried + 6 " ( dont know how to underline) by William Price Fox"

GREAT collection.

I remain and am proud to be an avid Clintonista.

So it goes.

Does not mean that I approve of everything they do or say, but that overall and add it all up and I am for 'em both......all the way.

Global warming my ass! It's snowed here every day for about 7 days straight! I had snow up to my knees in the parking lot at work!

I consider the Obama statement one of a spoiled, wet behind the ears brat whining that mommy and daddy are being mean.

Unlike him and anyone listening to him who might slink off for a good sulk and toe kicking in the dirt if they don't get their own way, I will vote for him if he is the nominee but it will be with full knowledge that he doesn't deserve the job but is simply what I'm offered instead of a Republican.

On MJ, all out attack on Bill Clinton. Just non-stop bashing. Never seen it worse. Guess they are getting nervous. What BC is doing must be working.

Corey: Go south, young man, go south!

sturg.... I think you mentioned those books before and I looked them up on Amazon.... they do look interesting.....

Corey..... let me play CBob for a moment.....
global warming means that some areas will have extreme weather..... not necessarily warmer weather...... some areas such as the southeastern parts of this country are experiencing a very bad drought..... but areas such as where you live and where I live are getting all the precipitation resulting in a lot of snow during this winter.....
of course..... you can always swear at the snow gods..... it might help.... :0)

Patsi... I thought the exact same thing when I saw Hipster use the word "apologists"......

Reb Ren........I mention them somewhere every year or so......they are far beyond interesting........just really superb reading pleasure.......

As I have been saying for a long time, I think Clinton/Obama '08 makes perfect sense.

And, you know what?...their body language suggests that they do not really even hate each other.

IMHO, they are just politicians being politicians...doing what they have to do and saying what they have to say, to win the nomination.

I can see Obama being a VP to Clinton(and, after 8 years, in the White House, becoming our next President).

I do not think , however, that Clinton would ever be a VP for Obama--I think her pride would prevent her from accepting the VP role.

Once again, Obama proves that he is Shrub 2.0, the arrogant, little schmo. Were he to be the nom, he would very likely NOT get my vote in the general. I would vote for someone with more experience first, even if that means not voting Dem. I think many people are tired of the two-party system & would rather vote for whomever they feel is the most capable person.

Besides, all of these social/wedge issues are piffle when it compares to the ability to do the job well. They are what keep the two-party system alive.

He still thinks he's running for class president.

can tell you that myself, some friends and family have gotten turned off by the Clinton's behaviour to do anything to win and will not vote for her if she gets the Democratic nomimnee. Their behavior and distortions like at Meet the Press in which Hilalry said: "Sen. Obama's chief strategist accuses me of playing a role in Benazir Bhutto's assassination.'' When in actuality David Axelrod never made such an accusation. He said former Prime Minister Bhutto's death will ''call into issue the judgment'' of ''taking the eye off the ball and making the wrong judgment in going into Iraq.'' and their recent attempt in voter suppresion in Nevada has shown a lot of people another side to them we did not know existed and it does not look pretty. In their quest for power at all costs, they have split the party -- there is a deep divide.

They seem more like Republicans than Democrats it is a shame to see their moral demise!

The 1980 election was when I was helping out my very liberal Republican friend running for senate in Colorado. My God, the Bush supporters hated Reagan and the fact he had the nomination. I mean they HATED Reagan.

Watched the news. They said that most Democrats have decided on which candidate they are going to vote for. Less than 50% of Republicans have decided on who they will vote for.

I also posted a few pics of our weather on my blog.

http://themitchellblog.blogspot.com/

Have a good day all!

bcangel

From the Amy Goodman interview between Amy Goodman and Tariq Ali referencing the Axelrod quote:

http://www.democracynow.org/2007/12/28/pakistan_in_turmoil_after_benazir_bhuttos

Could it be another example of the media taking a quote out of context in order to create a political storm for the sake of ratings while sacrificing the truth?

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to ask you, Tariq Ali, about this quote of Senator Barack Obama’s top campaign strategist, David Axelrod, who responded to the assassination by highlighting Hillary Clinton’s vote to support the US invasion of Iraq.

He said, quote, “Barack Obama had the judgment to oppose the war in Iraq, and he warned at the time that it would divert us from Afghanistan and al-Qaeda, and now we see the effect of that. Senator Clinton made a different judgment. Let’s have that discussion,” he said. "

Blue would have to change her name to red in Dallas if she wouldn't vote for Obama.

yo soy Horsedooty!

Obama's veiled threat is not so veiled. He exhibits the abillity to infer his views in his statements w/o actually expressing them--then cliaming that's not what he meant when challenged.

Craig--as usual you are ahead of the curve--On Imus this a.m., James Carville stated that a Clinton/Obama ticket was not beyond reason. He also mentioned Kennedy/Johnson as the example of never would happen, but did.

Of some interest, at mydd.com there is a post showing demographic breakdown of dem. voters in various upcoming primary states, it is from the Washingto Post.

I do not understand these big-name Dems. They want Bill Clinton to back-off. If Obama can not withstand light punches from BC, how could he go up against Repubs. The primary / caucus phase serves a purpose - it is a test! Obama seems to want the nomination just handed to him.

I didnt like Obama's statement either. It was a mistake for sure.

"Clinton Apologists" is just a term I use, no offense intended.Just FYI I am a lapsed Catholic. "Apologists" has a different meaning for me.

Gotta Run!

Giving Exams

-Hipster

another republican president (any one of them)

more warrantless surveillance
more neo-con supreme court judges
more attacks on Roe v. Wade
more war without end
more maimed and brain damaged vets to clog up the already saturated VA hospital system
more tax cuts for the rich instead of the middle class
more arrogant absolute disregard for the constition of our country
more USA torture of humans

anyone wish to add to this abbreviated list?

Here is the link to the WaPo demographic figures

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/behind-the-numbers/2008/01/demos_for_next_dem_primaries.html

"Clinton Apologists" is just a term I use, no offense intended.Just FYI I am a lapsed Catholic. "Apologists" has a different meaning for me."

ROFL, Hipster!

Blue - reconsider.....come November we all need to be there.

Once again, Craig is out in front of the shallow conventional wisdom that passes for analysis in the MSM.

The conventional wisdom is that Hillary & Barak hate each other so much that both on the same ticket would be impossible.

But Eisenhower picked Nixon as VP, even though he loathed him.

Sturgeone

More incompetent cronies running important agencies
More destruction of the environment for profit
More gay and feminist bashing in military with discharge of useful personnel for no reason.
More disregard of diplomacy when bombs will do

Next ...

What is the tab for Iraq so far and how much per month? We wish to continue throwing billions to republican operatives with no bid contracts? we wish to allow the Blackwater mercenaries to grow and perhaps become active on American soil? How much more money can we borrow from China that the taxpayers (Us) have to pay off?

reagan picked george HW (voodoo economics) bush as VP

Just some FYI for you guys. I am trying to get facts now. For the next couple of weeks I am going to stay quiet until I know what I can say are facts. here are some;

FactCheck.org On Clinton's Claim Obama Represented Rezko: "That's Untrue." Factcheck.org reported, "Obama was associated with a law firm that represented the community groups working with Rezko on several deals. There's no evidence that Obama spent much time on them, and he never represented Rezko directly. So it was wrong for Clinton to say he was 'representing ... Rezko.' That's untrue." [FactCheck.org, 1/21/08]

Chicago Tribune Review Of "Land And Court Document And Law Firm Files As Well As Correspondence And Other Records...Supports [Obama's] Contention That He Did Not Directly Represent Rezko's Development Firm." The Chicago Tribune reported, "Obama angrily rejected Clinton's accusation at Monday's Democratic debate. And a Tribune review of land and court documents and law firm files as well as correspondence and other records related to Obama's eight years as an Illinois state lawmaker supports his contention that he did not directly represent Rezko's development firm. Instead, the records show, he represented non-profit community groups that partnered with Rezko's firm." [Chicago Tribune, 1/23/08]

And More:

Tribune Examined Miner Barnhill's "260 Civil And Criminal Cases," IHDA And DOH Files, Clients From Obama's "Unusually Frank Ethics Disclosure Reports" And Found Obama Represented The Non-Profit Partner. The Chicago Tribune reported, "At the Tribune's request, Cook County Circuit Court Chief Judge Timothy Evans produced a list of all 260 civil and criminal cases in which the firm filed appearances, and the Tribune separately examined 1990s lawsuits that Rezmar Corp. listed in applications for government grants. The paper also examined files from the Illinois Housing Development Authority and the city housing department, as well as the hundreds of clients Obama listed in the unusually frank ethics disclosure reports he filed as a state senator from December 1995 through April 2004. Those and other records disclosed five instances in which Obama did legal work for ventures that included Rezmar Corp. The case of City of Chicago vs. Central Woodlawn Limited Partnership is one example. In 1992, that community group partnered with Rezmar Corp. to rehab the former slum apartment building at 6107-6115 S. Ellis Ave. As work was ongoing, city officials sued the developers, alleging 16 serious code violations at the property, including a dangerously dilapidated porch. Obama and a co-counsel filed appearances in February 1994, but the court records show they appeared on behalf of Central Woodlawn, Rezko's non-profit partner, not Rezko or his company." [Chicago Tribune, 1/23/08]

Washington Post Fact Check: "Investigations By Chicago Newspapers Have Not Produced Evidence That [Obama] Represented Rezko In A Slum Landlord Business." The Washington Post reported, "William Miceli, Obama's supervisor at the law firm, said the firm represented the Woodlawn Preservation and Investment Corp., a nonprofit group that redeveloped a run-down property on Chicago's South Side with Rezko. He called Clinton's assertion that Obama represented Rezko in a slum landlord business 'categorically untrue. He was a very junior lawyer at the time, who was given responsibility for basic due diligence, document review,' said Miceli, adding that Obama did what he was told by the firm. According to Miceli, that was the only time Obama worked on a Rezko-related project while at the law firm…But investigations by Chicago newspapers have not produced evidence that he represented Rezko in a slum landlord business. What has been demonstrated so far is that he did some due diligence legal work for a joint venture between Rezko and a Chicago nonprofit. Two Pinocchios for Clinton." [Washington Post, 1/22/08]

MINER: OBAMA DID MINOR WORK REPRESENTING THE NON-PROFIT

Miner: Obama Filed Incorporation Papers For The Non-Profits. The AP reported, "Attorneys there say Obama never represented Rezko directly. The future senator did represent community organizations that were Rezko partners in rehabilitating buildings to provide apartments for the poor…Judson Miner, a partner in the firm, said that Obama's role was small. He said Obama did perhaps six or seven hours of work on such projects, mainly filing incorporation papers for the nonprofit groups." [AP, 1/22/08]

Obama Said That Miner Barnhill "Was Representing The Non-For-Profit Partner, Where There's No Allegations That They Did Anything Wrong." Obama said, "My law firm was representing the non for profit partner, where there's no allegations that they did anything wrong. They were simply trying to develop non for profit housing in the district." [Fox News, 4/24/07]

Obama Said That Miner Barnhill Was "Brought In Through [The Non-Profits], Not Through Rezko." The Chicago Tribune reported, "Responding to a Chicago Sun-Times report that Obama's former law firm did legal work for Rezko's low-income housing development business, the Illinois senator said he performed five hours of work on behalf of non-profit housing groups that partnered with Rezko. 'We were brought in through them [the non-profits], not through Rezko,' Obama said." [Chicago Tribune, 4/24/07

So Obama is ageist too.. pity

sheila.......the house and vacant lot deal is still somewhat fishy........has Obama explained that one?
Im not bad-rapping him, just wish for some explication on it........

What has happened to all the love. Why is the first Black American president under a constant barrage of scandalous attacks by the D party?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080124/ts_alt_afp/usvote2008_080124055521

Sorry, you guys know I don't do long posts often. But didn't want to do one at a time either Craig.

:0) Good to be home, if only for a week.

Hipster, you have to know how good it is to have a very smart Obama man on this list. Thank you for making points.

On to work and Saturday!

Craig, your analysis is brilliant as usual but it is too complicated for little ole' me. Oh! fiddle dee dee, I'll think about it tomorrow. Frankly, Obama and Clinton, my dears, I don't give a darn!!!

Obama is a nice guy but he wasn't ready for prime time. He needs seasoning. (Basil perhaps).

Edwards had his shot in 2004 and the Republicans beat him up and took his lunch money.

Clinton is a rat, but she is OUR rat.

Is there anyone I have not offended?

Craig, did you say .....shotgun..... or .....shogun....!

I will keep looking, but for now, I have to get ready for work. MY BED was fantastic last night....yea yea, I know it sounds like a sexual thing,,,,,,but at my age LOL I think there is a point in that!

BTW, I've lost 30 pounds and holding.

Craig, I gained aweful weight after I quit smoking. But I kept saying if eating (Cause it really tasted good really tasting it for the first time in YEARS) is going the keep me from smoking, then so be it.

Now since, i finally felt strong enough, the weight is coming off even at my age.

I am on to another 30 now. 30 pounds that I've have for 10 years. So We shall see if these long held love handles will shed as eaily. ;0)

sounds correct to me, nash......(which, admittedly doesnt mean much,) but still.......

yeah nash what about Romney?

Oh nash!

Keep it up! Its great to have the Snarky you back!

sturgeone: Latest estimates say that the Iraq war costs us $500,000 a MINUTE. Estimated total long-term costs of the war, including care of disabled vets, $2Trillion.

I'm glad that we won't be spending any of that on education, health care, infrastructure, R&D, etc. That would be the "wasteful government spending" that McCain is always whining about.

Frydaddy

Why dont you worry about your own party? You always have something to say about the party you care nothing about.

You have really set of creeps over there on GOP side except for Paul and McCain. Thats a real set of scumbags.

Very typical of rank and file Republicans, always running those BIG FAT mouths about the Democratic party.

There's "some love" for you, Captain America.

-Hipster

Th Clintons are dirty tricks politicians who will do anything for votes. They can't be trusted as they have no integrity. Barack doesn't need her and if he ever took the VP slot with her in the campaign he would end up carrying her water. They are disgusting vitriolic people who have no place in public life. If this is the best the U.S. can come up with is them WE ARE IN BIG TROUBLE. Give me McCain. Integrity, honesty and valor all the way.....

"Obama's former law firm did legal work for Rezko's low-income housing development business, the Illinois senator said he performed five hours of work on behalf of non-profit housing groups that partnered with Rezko"

You know if you switch the names and dates around, this has a familiar sound to it: Rose Law Firm, Hillary and Bill Clinton, Whitewater, or Tyson Foods environmental polluting problems.
Witch hunting D style. LMAO You have got to love it. Well I do at any rate. :-)

Just as Clinton made a big deal about the Obama/Rezco association and the purchase of the Obama home so Obama made a big deal about Clinton being on the Wal-Mart Board of Directors.

On the face of things both of these look like negatives.

Once you dig, Obama probably showed bad judgement about the real estate present, but the majority of his work was to benefit a needed non profit in relation to Rezco.

Clinton sat on the board of Wal-Mart at the time they were one of the major employers in the area and in a position to do massive employment as well as making huge contributions to her activities with the Children's Defense fund.

Politics Make Strange Bedfellows and both Clinton and Obama have been to bed with some not nice folks.

Nash, Yer killin' me! ROFL!

Sheila -- Congrats on the weight loss!

I so disagree with Skylark about the Clintons. Mrs, Clinton stands miles above the other candidates. She is a woman with integrity, passion and a desire to right the wrongs that have been done in our country in the last 8 years.

500,000 dollars a minute......can anyone here even understand that? I cant. half a million a minute.
It's totally insane.
Totally.
Insane.

it's also obscene........

Sheila: Keep up the good work & get healthy. You are the last surviving member of the earliest days of Crawfordslist.

Fry
did you support the Hedge fund manager Mitt
did you support the man who confuses church and state
did you support the grandpa fred
which of losers if yours

I'm getting to LIKE MoJo, and Mika, and Willie.

Are there treatment programs or support groups I can contact?

Obama will not accept the number two spot
and when he loses he will take his supporters and go home. he has already said he won't run again.

KGC

I suspect Captain America is pretty much Anti-Everything and just supports whoever has an (R) by the name, no questions asked.

I pity the person who puts a party ahead of their country

BTW...Craig--because of your column, this morning, I suddenly have(what I like to call) "politi-cred", with my husband!!

He is a real political junkie. Until this morning, he has just rolled eyes, patted my head and smiled sweetly at me, whenever I have suggested that Clinton/Obama could be a possibility for '08!!

I read your blog to him, before he was even out of the shower(TMI?)and then said..."Uh-huh...now what?"...LOL!!

So, thanks Craig...you made my day!! :)

Well Hipster suck it up, I am hoping McCain becomes the R's nominee, and lets see who the American people back. Hillary or McCain, Obama or McCain. Tough choice there. lmao. Hills my D pick, but McCain will clean her clock. And you know the D's are very worried about McCain. They know that Americans, that is real Americans, won't stand for a POW, a war hero being attacked, by the Clintons. Especially if Bill comes after McCain in the same fashion he is going after Obama. The Clinton's won't want to dredge up that old draft question again will they. lol Oh no they won't!

Right, like McCain is such a magic bullet for the R's...

Jamie--Thanks for providing a link to the Washington Post info. I confess I do not know how to link posts.

Coreen

Fry........my neo-con buddy here calls McCain and his supporters McCainiacs........doesnt mean he wont vote for him, of course.......but if you think McCain has a chance to be president of the united states you are simply delusional......

Obama does not speak spontaneously
he knew his statements on the Pat Roberrtson network were designed to cause trouble

and it worked. I predict the Democrats will whistle past dixie and nominate a winner Hillary Clinton

Fry supports McCain
the republican the real republicans hate

I'm with Katherine!!!

McCain, Giuliani, & Huckabee are broke. Super rich Romney is going to buy the nomination. If he wins FL, it's over.

Right now I think it will be Hillary vs Romney.

KG,

Do you support the hedge fund worker John "PB" Edwards?
Do you support the people who use the term church and state and then make reference to the constitution? You'll not find it there.
New Alert for KG. Fred is not running.

I know you live in the boonies but how can you be so far out of touch with current events?

the christian ultra right will stay home if it's romney.....let's see him win without them......lol

Populist Huckabee was sounding a bit MARXIST last night accusing Romney of looting US companies, firing the workers, and moving the funds to "offshore accounts."

And Wall Street replied, "What's wrong with that?"

fry

no one really cares what you think or who you supported cuz we can get your talking points straight from the horse's as-

fry
ask rush what is the concept of'
"separation of church and state"

or is it Hannity that you get your crap from

Fry

Good then you said you were with McCain.
All-

Otherwise New SC attack ad in SC for Obama vs. Clinton, rough stuff

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/01/obama-ad-shell.html

Hipster

Sheila: Apparently, Obama had some sort of long-term relationship with this guy. Often facts do not matter, it is about perception. The " guilt by association " smear can be used against Obama.

my problem with Obama is the pretense that he is different from other pols...he is not

I agree with Fry that McCain is the GOP's best shot. Hell, he is their only shot.

People like McCain. he matches up well with Clinton. Don't ked yourselves, the GOP will come home if hillary is nominated.

Then Fry and the Republicans can sit in Iraq for "100 years," because "that will be fine with" John McCain. His words not mine.

-Hipster

McCain is my man. The R party will rally around him. What are they going to do vote for Hillary or Obama? LMAO.

OMG KG, we actually agree on something. Hillary will be the D's nominee, but I have been saying that from the day she entered the race. Not like a lot of these Johnny come lately types. Biden would have made for a better race, but no one wants to buy his message. Maybe it is because when he smiles he clenches his teeth. Wonder if he has TMJ?

hip
I call baloney on that statement all the evidence points otherwise.

Coreen

On this website, links are easy. You go to the page you want to link. You right click on the URL (address of the page at the top) and then left click "copy". You come back here, put your cursor in the box and left click on paste.

You can do the same for blocks of text, but most people prefer the link to read on their own rather than wading through large blocks of material that might not interest them.

Hope those instructions are clear, but if not just mention where you saw something, and someone here will usually go get it for you.

KGC

Which statement are you baloneying?

Hip

I baloney the statement that only Hillary makes the gop come home...

in fact I think Senator Clinton has a shot at this group

"November 28, 2007, 6:19 pm
G.O.P. Pro-Choice Group Releases Anti-Romney Ads
By Michael Luo

A Republican abortion-rights group is set to begin an advertising offensive against Mitt Romney on Sunday in Iowa and New Hampshire, attacking him as a flip-flopper on the issue.
The group, Republican Majority for Choice, will begin airing a 30-second spot in both states that highlights some of Mr. Romney’s past statements on abortion, starting with the clip that has been around for months on YouTube from his U.S. Senate campaign against Senator Edward M. Kennedy when he pledged to support abortion rights."

and I don't think either Edwards or Obama would be as appealing.

KGC
They hate her. What makes you think they won't come out of the woodwork? Dont you remember the 90's? the crude Visceral accusations? Ken Starrrrrrrrr? Gingrich? The preposterous lies they cooked up? This is all baggage they can trot out. These people are lunatics about the Clintons. The day after the 1992 election in Mississippi, we got torrential downpours and one of them told me the Lord made it rain in America because Bush lost. The guy was completely serious…

Of course I pointed out to him that it only rained in the states that didn’t vote for Clinton

Hip

the anit clinton people make two arguements which contradict each other...

either they are the people the right hates the most
or they are the people who compromised with the right the most.

so which is it

k..here's the thing.. if you seriously CARE about where the country is at... are really pissed off at the madmen who have been making policy for the past 8 years, think.. SERIOUSLY THINK.. before you decide NOT to support the dem nominee, no matter who it is.. parking your vote somewhere else just doesnt make sense..

well hip you are dreaming if you think that is't going to happend to any democratic party candidate
2004
did you forget the swiftboating of Kerry
the sex rumors
the horrible treatement of his wife
Imus called Elizabeth Edwards fat

mornin' all.

Hipster, for cryin' out loud. You sound like Obama now. Imopugning your guy's critics instead of explaining why they are wrong. It's hard not to misinterpret apologist if it's being used with a non noffensive connotation. Of course, Plato was the original apologist, but the term has morphed in today's vernacular to fit people like Dana Perino much more closely than Plato. I still want him to explain how 5 years of support for every Iraq war funding bill is not inconsistent wiht his assertion that he opesed the war from the start and distinguishes his record on the wr from Hillary's - at the start, perhaps - from the start - unh, uh,

I find Obama's statement that he will get all of Hillary's votes, but the question is whether Hillary will get his to be incredibly arrogant. He's won a caucus and is set to win a primary. She's won a caucus and a primary. Sounds kind of even to me. Let'ssee how cocksure he is on Feb. 6.

Craig, apparently Edwards doesn't buy your strategy that Hillary could lose SC more or less intentionally.

http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/01/23/edwards-critical-of-clintons-absence-in-south-carolina/

I got a question for you John - what are you going to tell the voters in NY, CA and all the 2/5 states you didn't visit while you were grubbing for votes in SC about your concern for them? Will you tell them that you were desperate for a win there, so you chose to ignore them?

http://www.thestate.com/presidential-politics/story/294810.html

Folks, I'm beginning to think Clinton/Richardson on the Dem side. Yeah, the unlikely pair of Clinton/Obama is intriguing, but I just can't get my mind around Barack being that practical.

KGC

Ok for me the direct answer is BOTH. She tries to be a centrist but she is the one they hate the most. Right-Wingers are like gangsters or prison inmates. A sign of kindness is a sign of weakness to them.

Or look at it like this, to a religious nut (and those folks are the GOP base) compromise is an actual sin. Thats why they hate her.

Thats the best answer I can give, but thats just speaking for me.

Hip

I've upset a male Republican acquaintance horribly by saying a lot of Republican women in the privacy of the voting booth will vote Clinton and then lie through their teeth to their husbands. :-)

Pogo,

I sound like Obama?

Thanks. I like the man.

:-)

Hip

Richardson would be a very, very good running mate, especially for Clinton

Hip

i agree, jamie.. and then sit there with little smug smiles on election night..

I don't think Christie Todd Whitmann is going to vote for some Shrub wannabe

nash, try again, you haven't offended me :)

sturg, move over, there's room enough in the boatfor me.

If it comes to pass that John McCain is the Rep. nominee, it will be interesting to see if they do
rally around him or just maybe check out & stay home. The open hatred of McCain by the movement conservatives' lead spokesman (Limbaugh) is on daily display & he continues to state that so far McCain has not won with Rep. votes so the issue is moot.

Just maybe the Florida primary will at least settle the issue of whether McCain can actually win a majority of Rep. votes.

Hipster,

You are speaking about a very vocal but rather small segment of the Republican voters. In Congress, it is the Republican senators who praise Clinton for her ability to get things done through bi-partisan legislation.

As with any negotiation, you win some and you lose some, but the only way to move things forward is for everyone to feel as if they got something out of the deal.

If you want to be an idealistic martyr to a cause, you will probably eventually get much of what your want done after years and years of beating on the walls, you just won't get elected.

Suffragettes starved to death for years before women finally got the vote, but while that was going on, women were getting men to enact more and more legislation that favored women's rights.

That is why the dreamers need the doers and vice versa.

In this day and age, why would a woman have to lie to her husband(or anyone)about the candidate for whom she voted?

and while we are quibbling something really important is going on.,.....
FISA and neither Obama or Clinton is stepping up

http://firedoglake.com/2008/01/24/fisa-battle-stand-and-be-counted/#comments

Linda

Why would women lie?

Peace in the family.

I know there are times my wife lets me rant and rave.
She just smiles and nods. Stupid me I take that as agreement, when all she is doing is waiting for the storm to blow over.

Jack

KG,

Education time for KG. Apparently KG you slept though 10th grade US history. As to the ref. of church and state. The phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear anywhere in the Constitution. To clarify, that would be the U.S. Constitution. Please read the following and become better informed American.

In 1802 Thomas Jefferson responded to a letter from the Danbury Baptist Association, Danbury Connecticut. They complained that in their state, the religious liberties they enjoyed were not seen as immutable rights, but as privileges granted by the legislature. Jefferson's reply did not address their concerns about problems with state establishment of religion - only of establishment on the national level. The letter contains the phrase "wall of separation between church and state," which led to the short-hand for the 1st Amendment, Establishment Clause:

(Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.) that we use today: "Separation of church and state."

LIL

Do you remember the Huckabee quote about a woman's position in relation to her husband? There are times when discretion is the better part of valor and peace on the home front is often worth a small lie about a check in a box.

Fry

read the 1st amendment again.

Hip

There IS seperation of church and state, and there should be. Its good for both

NOT JMHO

Hip

Isn't the ultimate goal of all those of us who despise what has been going on in this country for the last 7+ years to DESTROY the stranglehold this administration & its cohorts have had?

While we may each align with particular candidates, in the end we can not afford to falter & allow this opportunity to pass--it would be another long, long 4 years to suffer! That thought should always take precedence over our individual problems with any of the dem. candidates.

On MJ, there was something about Obama claiming to have accidentally pushed the wrong button when voting ( IL senate ). Just caught part of the conversation. Has anyone heard about this?

fry

you are a marooon

I hear you Coreen

Hip

THE BILL OF RIGHTS
The first ten amendments to the Constitution of the United States of America are known as the Bill of Rights. By beginning with the following words in the First Amendment the framers established their primary concern regarding the relationship of church and state:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

gee fry
maybe you should have gone to school in the north

Here's the story on the Obama "oops" votes

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-obamavotes24jan24,1,7079399.story

One of the clearest defenses of the doctrine was made by our first Catholic president in a speech before the Ministerial Association of Greater Houston (Texas) on September 12, 1960:

I believe in an America where the separation of Church and State is absolute, where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be a Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote, where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference, and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him. John F Kennedy

Our founding fathers wanted to avoid the kind wars that had been fought for centuries in the name of religion:

The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries. James Madison

Surprisingly, my 80 something mother-in-law from Indiana, a life long D. will not vote for Obama if he is the D nominee. Can't do it, won't do it. This feeling seems to be very common among older white Ds. Another group of Ds who won't vote for Obama are the Hispanic voters. The young voter, college student, the 18 to 27 year olds, blacks seems to be Obama biggest block of supporters. They are also the ones who vote less often. I am still standing behind my D ticket of Hillary-Richardson. After this Saturday if he has any sense(?) Edwards will never run again. Depending on how badly Hillary loses in 2008, she too may never run again. Obama will run again, and will be elected president in 2024. I have changed my R ticket. It was McCain Huckabee, or Rudy-Huckabee. It will be McCain-Rudy. McCain will be a 1 term president and Rudy will be a 2 term president. After that I won't have to care. :-o

Fry is arguing both the "States' Rights" and the "Free Exercise clause" of the first amendment. After scads and scads of court cases all the way to the Supremes, there is now a sort of agreed upon compromise, but the ground could shift again.

No one in an "official" position in government or by employment can advocate the practice of any particular religion in a public space.

Individuals are free to exercise their religion in a public space as long as it does not interfere with the rights of other citizens. So a church group can put up a creche in a park, but they can't prevent the symbols of other religions.

The group of kids can pray by the flag pole or before a football game, but no teacher can lead the prayers and they are not allowed to bully, intimidate or demote any other student for not participating. No child may be coerced in any practice not of their religion ... lots of fussing still going on about this aspect.

Congress can have a chaplain, but nobody has to listen to him/her. :-)

Thanks Fry for your soothsaying.

Now, tell me...

Who is going to win the Super Bowl 10 years from now?

:-)

Hip

I think Obama needs HRC support more than she needs his. Obama's core support is more faithful to the Democrat party and will for the most part vote along the party line.
Her voters have a habit of being more independent and splitting their tickets. Also this America and he is black. To win he can't afford to piss anybody off.

As far as the 30%ers on the right, that hate HRC , write them off they are not relevant. They are just noise.

while the 2%ers on the left are more relevant and they are the ones that might not support HRC as Obama pointed out. They are going to have to decide: do they want to be on a winning team or do they want to sit on the sidelines and whine. The only winning team they have a chance with is the Democratic nominee.

Jack

Fry,

I am saving that prediction just for the sheer joy of going

nyah nyah
nyah
nyah nyah

the day after the tickets are set and then on election day (just in case one of your teams actually exists.)

Being in the South it is extremely interesting to see Jack, Jamie, etc say that the anti-Clinton people are just noise. Maybe my thinking on this is skewed by being surrounding by so many loonies.

Hip

Back in the 60's, I can remember that couples(my parents, included)would always vote for the candidate that the man chose(or maybe the woman lied). It seems that "the little woman" could not be trusted to make her own decision. I believe, the thinking was that, if they voted for different men, then their votes would cancel each other out.

I can't believe that, in 2008, people actually lie(to their spouses/SO)about their choices.

I wonder how Maria/ Arnold, Mary/James, etc., handle their differing political views? Do you think they lie to each other?

hip

nothing personal but the Dems can whistle past dixie

Mrs. Hip and I always ote as a team.

I beg to differ KGC, they need to take a shot at Virginia and Florida at minimum

Hip

"vote" as a team

LiL

Maria and Mary are way too politically active to be hidden about their preferences in public, but even they might be completely different in relation to their husbands and/or in the voting booth.

In real life, the "way things should be" and the "way they are" are frequently two different animals.

Absolutely not!

We have to think beyond the campaign. We have to have a President and VP who actually like each other, as in the Clinton-Gore years, and not one in which there's no love lost, as with Kennedy and Johnson.

No, Clinton-Clark is my dream ticket.

if my hybby ever votes repug, he'd better lie about it or he's gonna get VERY hungry!! LOL

http://www.whistlingpastdixie.com/

let me know when the south is done re enacting the civil war

LOL

I take it the Mr. nannymm mostly says "Yes Dear".

Jack

One more thing. On the news this morning they said that Hillary or Obama would easily beat all Republican candidates in a election. All Republicans except McCain. If it was McCain , Hillary would win , but it would be very close. McCain and Obama would be virtually even.

Damn, lost a post - forgot to save it. Nutz.

Skylark - got get a remote and change from Sean, Rush and Fox. Jesus H.

Hip, I know you like Obama, and will vote for him if he beats Clinton, but its the "Impugning your guy's critics instead of explaining why they are wrong" part that is uncharacteristic for you. I'm just glad you could figure the post out with all its typos. Gotta start using Preview I guess.

Sturg, do we clintonistas need to wear a beret or something? Camo maybe? Let's make sure whatever we wear it doesn't make our butts look big.

Fry if you're right about McCain cleaning anyones' clock, it will defy most of the current polls.

http://pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm

Lush, I don't think my mom and dad voted the same all the time although they were both social conservative, but I never heard them discuss politics. Of course growing up in the age of the Dixiecrats, there were no liberal options on the dem ticket at the state level.

kc, the south will never stop re-encting the Civil War-

Corey - the newsies are just reflecting the polls

kc - the South doesn't consider FL to be part of the South - at least not FL south of Jacksonville, but I think FL is pivotal - too meany electoral vvotes to ignore it.

Well, I am thrilled that Jim's and my political differences do not disrupt the harmony in our home!!

We could not be happy, if we felt we had to lie to each other(when it comes to politics) . ;)

wasn't it McCain that showed his wit and wisdom by trying to sing something he learned from the Rush Limbaugh Show? I seem to remember him singing "Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran". Limbaugh has been using that song for nearly 10 years now.

yo soy Horsedooty!

I well remember the JFK/Nixon contest. My Republican father told my JFK-loving mother that since they'd just cancel out each other's votes they might as well sit out the election. She agreed. Then they ran into each other at the polls.

Horse,

Yes, McCain did sing that and its on video, would make a handy commercial to show him as a bit of a loose cannon. Hillary's people just might have enough temerity to do it.

He's also the guy who says it would be "fine with him" if we stayed in Iraq 100 years.

-Hip

Pogo

The polling Report numbers are popular vote. Do we have any numbers by state to reflect Electoral Votes?

It think the Republicans are in for a sad surprise on the electoral, but it could be close.

Patsi JFK-Tricky story

hahahaha

I love it!

-Hip

hmmm...i'd never lie to paul bout what i spend on jewelry or furniture. don't have to. we have our own "don't ask; don't tell" policy. he doesn't ask; and i never tell. has made for a very happy marriage these past 23 yrs.

KG,

Read the 1st amendment. In simple states the government will not form a national religion, they gov't will not be in the religion making business, but it will protect the freedom of it citizens to practice their own religion. In other word KG, you can freely worship Anubis, the jackal-like god of judgment, from the Book of the Dead.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I think we basically lie to each other about everything but politics!! LOLOLOL!!

It has worked for us, after all these years!!

I find it amusing that if someone is against Obama, they are charged with being racist.

Katherine, love your post. I have an unusual fondness for our Constitution. James Madison was right, if there is no separation of church and state, religion could in fact be a prerequisite for war, as is the case with Iraq. As for the presidential candidates on both sides, only Obama understood this concept. Therefore, he understands America as our founders envisioned it, separation of church and state and respect for the separation of powers is the cornerstone of our democracy.

Obama was always right on Iraq because he read the Federalist Papers. He understands and respects our Constitution. Our founders granted power under the Constitution to the people not corporations. Iraq is a corporate war under the disguise of religion. By the way, Craig, I think he would be a great addition to the democratic ticket if he holds a large amount of delegates at convention time.

Okay. I've found a candidate even more deserving of a vote than Hillary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6yn1-B3YHc

Hipster -- Politics was a huge topic of conversation in our house. Everything from local contests to state and federal to Vietnam to hippies. The cool thing about my parents was that they never made any of their offspring agree with them. If you had an argument you got heard.

I also remember the first time I met congressional candidate Bob Dole. He and a party guy came to the house.

Bob said, "Charlie, I understand you are key to the money in this part of the county."

My dad said, "Well Bob, I don't have any of it. But I can sure as hell get it for you."

Ah politics!

well the SChip veto override has failed again in the House. Gotta love those "compassionate conservatives." They're all heart (less)

Pogo,

According to the always correct MSNBC, McCain is leading in FL. If he wins FL, he will be the R's nominee. And here is a new flash for you about Rush. When Rush starts saying that Newt isn't conservative enough, then that tells me Rush is on the wrong track, much like the ideology of the Far Whacked Out Liberal Left. But Rush will vote, won't like it, but he'll vote for the R's nominee, even if it is McCain.

Off to lunch.

Jamie

That's hilarious!!

LOLOL(snort)LOLOLOL!!

Who in the world listens to Rush Limbaugh and expects to be taken seriously?

Hip

KGC posted a link to an article about this group yesterday....here's one thing that'll be coming at Hillary....

http://www.citizensunitednottimid.org/

fried

or be free to worship NOTHING AT ALL abd be free from anyone else's idea of religion

FryDaddy is Rush really the voice of Republicans. I find him very divisive and negative. Surely, most Republicans are the opposite of Rush.

Craig, at last. A debate at FAU in Boca. Can you hobble there or not?

tt

Billary is willing to take down the party in order to get elected. Obama needs to get them out of his head by ignoring them and refusing to comment on anything either of them say in this media perpetrated debacle. Naturally, the MSM wants to see Hillary nominated so they can have a tabloid orgasm bringing up Monicagate again. GO OBAMA GO!!!!!!!

See you troops

Back to the real world

Hipster

Patsi'

Roger Stone is a frequent msgop guest especially on the Tucker Carlson show....I am sure he will be again and there will be lots of craptastic coverage..

we will have the mayor of looneyville all titalated and his tv wife all appalled but they will give it lots of play
because ,msgop had devoled into nothing but white male locker room crap

True Cydney, which is why i say no more Clintons.

the alternate view of reality

if someone doesn't see the world the way you do
they are prejudiced or wrong.

Patsi

Here is the TPM write up on Citizens United

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/005124.php

I'm sure these two groups can handle them. In fact they might take to proudly wearing the T-Shirt

See next message due to three link rule

http://www.bitchmagazine.org/
http://www.heartless-bitches.com/

Fry, good to know that one party thinks FL will determine its nominee. I haven't really followed the reps' races closely, but certainly McCain's 'mo hasn't escaped me. Does he have the money to compete in SDT? And Fry, Rush is too pure for my tastes and he believes his own BS - of course he acts more like the godless and morals-less social liberals of old than a conservative - kind of like Rudi.

Hip, apparently Skylark thinks listening to Rush doesn't preclude being taken seriously. As do a few other folks - Fry from tme to time, I'm sure.

Cyndey, with all due respect, that's ridiculous.

consider this for your motto

"Never in doubt often wrong"

NY Times: Voters are in a "dark mood"
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/24/us/politics/24change.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1201194136-hkkFx1x8degb+1RviZSZ2A

An interesting comment from Kevin Drum

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_01/012960.php

Look at the poll numbers he lists. It seems that Obama &HRC split the independent vote but McCain will pull off more votes from the Democrats in a head to head matchup with Obama than HRC.

I suspect that if you factor in the Brady effect it is even worse.
Sadly the only explaination that comes to mind is race.

I'm gone for the rest of the day I'm going to spend it with my mother.
See everybody this evening if I get back in time

Jack

Cydney

I tend not to pay much attention to someone that starts of their post with a term such as Billary. I do find it amusing that the 2%ers the left and the 30%ers on the right both favor Rush Limbaugh language.

Jack

Despite the Billary term, the essence of the post was on point.

nash, here's the money quote from the article you linked.

"This year’s dissatisfaction seems to have less to do with any fundamental shift in the nation’s ideological and partisan leanings than with its broadening displeasure with the Bush administration’s handling of the war and the economy. "

Which is of course why we should expect that McCain - the repug most like Dumya - would beat any dem??? Fry???

Jamie, *L* @ 'himbos' and 'room temperature IQ's'

tt

doots & patsi - I'll never change my name, but I will vote for whomever I think is the most competent candidate. I think there will be a lot of cross-over this time, which is why I don't think either side should assume that people will be sticking to party lines.

Cydney & Cheryl, please try and back up your "take down the party" comments for "Billary" differentiating Hillary's campaign from Saint Barack's. I believe that is crap, but before deciding that is the case, I'd like to give you an opportunity to support that statement. Inquiring minds want to know.

Here is a CBob type article. If you like coffee and think protecting birds from poisons is a good idea

http://www.eartheasy.com/eat_shadegrown_coffee.htm

Pogo, you misunderstand me, I do not think fighting for your position takes down the party. I believe both candidates are right to stand their ground. All is fair in love and politics right. However, the race thing is old. I hope that our country has moved passed the politics of personal destruction and racial separation. To me, Obama represents the idea of a united America. Sorry, some of us are tired of the Bill and Hillary show.

Edwards '08

Forget the feud.

http://patterns2.blogspot.com/

tt

Jack, if you happen to still be lurking - even at your mother's - I think the data Drum cites may be reflective of Hillary pulling more females who would otherwise vote for McCain than Obama does, particularly among independents.

Cheryl, then I don't know what you think was so right on about Cydney's post. I agree the race thing is a tired, old issue - the only suggestion that race is part of the contest between Hillary and Obama is from the repugs trying to shed their own racist label. Again, I do not see what the "politics of personal destruction" or racial separation has to do with the dem contest - the former has been minimal in this race and the latter has been virtually nonexistent. You may be right that Obama would be a racially uniting candidate - just as HIllary could be a gender-uniting candidate. As compared to the repugs, I think that's what the polling data may suggest - we'll have to wait on the actual votes to analyze that. All that said, there are plenty of voters out there who will not vote for Obama because of his race, or for Hillary because of her gender - I just hope they are mostly folks who wouldn't vote for the democratic nominee anyway.

Let's remember who attacked first

Obama

Pogo, points well taken, I will respond by saying may the best candidate win. For me this election is like no other. It is a special time in our history. We have come to a point in our history where a person of any gender or race can run for the highest office in the land. All of the Democratic candidates excite me. This is a very special election year.

Steven Bradbury reappointed - SOBS

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/24/washington/24justice.html?ex=1358830800&en=717b96ee3bd88b4e&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

Get out the cloths and buckets.

The tax rebate deal was finalized. Interesting hash.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/24/deal-completed-for-tax-re_n_83039.html

Cheryl, I agree. It is exciting to see this.

El Rushbo has a new squeeze. I see what he could see in her, but what could she possibly see in him? Other than wealth, a drug connection and a pocket full of Viagra.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/24/kathryn-rogers-31-is-ru_n_83046.html

Russ & Chris are doing the lord's work to strip the FISA bill of the telecom immunity provisions in the senate - I wish I had the opportunity to give them my vote in support.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/24/feingold-i-really-do-di_n_83053.html

Rushbo seems to shop at the tall, lanky blond, let my lawyer see the prenup store.

Has anyone heard any mention of those on Social Security or Disability fixed incomes in this stimulus package?

isn't obama the one whinning "bill and hillary are picking on me???"

jamie, from what i can tell, seniors and the disabled have been left out in the cold yet again.

jamie, from what I've read and as far as I can tell the rebates only apply to wage earners, and the tax breaks to businesses.

During the segment, Imus said: "Well, I like Toni Morrison, and she's brilliant, but -- and I know what she meant by describing Bill Clinton as the first black president, but then asking Barack Obama that the other night in that debate, I thought bordered on -- well, I guess it was a pretty good question." Co-host Karith Foster responded: "But you know what's obnoxious about that question? Is that, you know, I think a lot of people were comparing him to the negative traits of black men, saying, 'Oh, well, you know, because he's a philanderer and he, you know, he plays music and he has -- you know, he grew up poor.' Like, they associate poverty with being black, which unfortunately is true a lot of times in this country, but you know, there's this growing middle class of black people that exists out there. So I think that's why that question is somewhat offensive." After Imus stated of Johns' question, "I thought it was patronizing and condescending when I heard it," Bartlett said: "I thought it was because he'd had an affinity for fat white women." Bartlett appeared on the program vocally impersonating and dressed as Godfather character Don Vito Corleone.

and the only one crying mommy is Obama

Pogo

I'm back
It seems my car had other ideas so I'm taking it to the shop later.

So what your saying is HRC has pulled a bunch of independent women (1)into the party but if she is not a choice then they will revert to their old ways.

I can see how that could happen.

Another thought, just now, the shift out of the Republican party to independent to Democratic party has made all of them more conservative. This works IMO in HRC's favor as she has steadily positioned herself in the center. Obama tried to occupy that space but has found himself becoming the favorite of the liberal wing. I think a lot of the heat in this campaign comes from the fact that they both want to stand on the same dime

Jack

1. insert sexist joke of your choice

Take a look at the coalition that elected Ed Rendell
and beat Bob Casey jr in the primary. That is the progressive coalition that has won.

People do not have to marginalize themselves at the edges to win. They have to motivate their voters.

Republican pro choice women are not going to be fooled again.

KGC
"Bartlett said: "I thought it was because he'd had an affinity for fat white women"

And Imus isn't a racist, Ok gotcha.

Thanks for reminding me why I don't miss Imus.

Jack

I never bought into Obama's silly "bring us together" theme, but at least it was a lofty theme. One could debate it. But we never got the chance to hear that debate.

Let's be VERY clear about this: it was the Clintons that turned this into a dirty campaign.

Hillary has not run on ideas, either hers or her opponents'. From the beginning, she & Bill have waged an unrelenting and dishonest smear campaign aganist Obama. Every damn day one of them or a surrogate would launch another attack, from another angle. It's clear this was a well thought-out and coordinated campaign of lies. I'll bet they did months of focus groups, long ago, to test which smears would have the most impact. They probably have a ton of stuff to use on Edwards, but haven't because he's no threat.

One could argue that this is the only way to beat the Republicans in the general election. But it's nothing to be proud of.

To say that Obama "started it," is not supported by the facts. The first shot of the Clinton smear campaign was an allegation that their opening attack was a response to a non-existent Obama "attack." That's how you play this game.

Obama's response has been naive and weak. What the hell did he think was going to happen when he had the audacity to challenge the Clintons. They think the Democratic party BELONGS to them.

Jack, that's the one thing I hate about cars - they're mechanical so they break. (BTW, one of my favorite judges is a guy who was called Whiskey Jack by some of the old timer lawyers I know because he supposedly ran hootch to our troops during WWII)

To be clear, I don't know that my analysis of the polling data that was linked above is right, I just posit that as a possibility.

The Clinton recipe for southern fried politics....

Start with moderate Republican policies (unionbusting, free trade, deregulation, etc)

Add a touch of meaningless liberal symbolism as a garnish (attend a few black churches)

Serve with a large helping of opposition research driven negative campaigning. Make the election a referendum on your opponent's flaws, real or fabricated.

David Geffen

Well
How about comparing and contrasting econ plans
Paul Kurgman thinks the obama offering is "desreputable>" And what about the differences in thier health care plans.

There are plenty of ideas and issues out there
and the only people screaming about campaign tactics are the idealess

Listening to Imus is like having dinner in a four star restaurant with a cobra as your guest.

It's very nice as long as you never forget who you're sharing a meal with.

"What kind of wine goes well with rat?"

The Obama recipe for Victory\
the Dr Feel Good of Politics

projection much
what nash just described in the Obama campaign

and what about the sleazy behavior of the Edwards campaign when joe trippi tried to start a bunch of post Iowa rumors...none of which turned out to be true

Bull, Nash. Obama's campaign was trying to get an Atlantic reporter to investigate Clinton's post-Presidency sex life over two months ago.

My attitude right now is the hell with it. Just close down the primaries and give him the nomination. I mean it. Just hand him the banner and tell him to run with it.

KG get your elbow pads ready. Any day now it looks like George, Nancy and Harry will be sending out welfare checks disguised as part of the stimulus package. How "f"ing stupid. This will cost roughly $75 billion. Why not just hand out $10K per family, then it would only cost $750 billion. I mean if you are going to make the guys over at the Treasury running the presses work a little overtime, you might as well make it meaningful and really increase inflation. The poor will be just as poor come the day after the great give away, but they will have a new 42 inch flat screen TV made in Tibet. This is why GW Bush is no Conservative. In this case he is no better than the Liberals Nancy & Harry, who's answer to everything wrong is thrown more money at it. Have you ever wonder how much money has gone into government run social programs since the Great Society day of LB "Don't Pee in the Bushes" Johnson. I think it boarders on $2 trillions, and the poor are just as poor. $2,000,000,000,000. lol

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8UCDVSO1&show_article=1

If you are afraid that is your problem

fried

as usual yada yada yada
It looks like a one time tax cut to me.

and in fact they should go to the root causes which in large part was Shrub using the war on terra as an excuse for every failed program

And tty as you might he is a republican and he is yours

one can only conclude Fried is embarassed about his votes for Bush and is now trying to pretend he had nothing to do with it,.,....how very gooper of you to take no responsibility for your actions

fried
you can always donate your share back

and do you feel the same way about the planned bailout of the insurers....that is what is having the real effect

it's a mystery to me how anyone in their right mind could have ever voted for Bush. Ok, we know Gore won the first election and Bush was "selected" by the Supremes, but then in 2004... i just don't get the American mindset. Never have... that's why I packed my bags and left. I don't even know why I bother to vote anymore.

Fry, I'll grant you one thing - the rebate part of this stimulus package is certainly not a conservative one, but the part that gives a writedown for capitol purchases to business is. If this works to stop the downward trend in the economy, I'll eat my hat.

The only thing a Hillary supporter might be afraid of are the conservative poliicies and reacharound of the Obama campaign...whose side will be cave in
he has support from people who want to deport undocumented workers., Senator Claire McCaskill, is he using her to win in Mo or has he adopted her stand
McCaskill said in 2004 she though Senator Clinto should not run because she was too liberal

otherwise not so much

All of my lefty friends say Hillary is too friggin' conservative.

Hillary is COMPETENT and that's what we need to repair all the damage shrub has caused.

The Italian government of Romano Prodi has collapsed. No real surprise there.

Sen. Orrin Hatch is in Romney's camp. He called Romney a financial genius and said that is what we need in this country.
He said the election will not be decided over the war, but the economy.
That part seems to be true as the war has just faded ... the stage was re-set and we're on another scene in the play.
Seemingly forgotten is the fact that it is the war that is draining the country dry.
Oh well. Hatch, a fellow Mormon, said Romney will, with time , be able to overcome prejudice by anti-Mormons.
So...if it comes down to Romney or McCain, it will be decided by two issues: do the voters want someone they believe is strong on defense, or someone whose record indicates he can right a ship that's headed for financial catastrophe.
Either one will be a formidable opponent to either B.O. or HRC.
* (Harborwoman...B.O. is Obama...O'Reilly is BILLO)

RE: THOMAS FREEMAN: 3:05 post:

I post those exact words every so often...literally, that easily could have been MY post.

KG,

Like I was going to vote for that phony duo of Kerry and Edwards. LOMFAO. BTW, just for the record since some of you fools can't seem to let it go. Bush beat Kerry by 3.5 million votes. Gore beat Bus by 500,000 votes, but Gore as we know lost Florida in 2000. How sweet it is!

I love it when you Ds argue among yourselves. This is just great theater. You know Bill Clinton, The First American Black President, is being called to task for saying racist things. Such as, if Hillary loses SC, it is because the blacks voted for Obama. But isn't that the truth? Blacks voting in block for Obama? Isn't that what the polls tell us, isn't that what the MSM been telling us? Kind of makes sense to me what BC is saying. I have been saying this a along, anything that is said by the Clinton's even remotely connected to Obama will have a race factor attached to it. If they said Obama has a nice pair of brown shoes someone will turn that into a racial remark. If it wasn't so sad it be laughable, watching the one side bait the other into mentioning race then coming back and complaining that they are talking about race. Ds and Ls can not talk about race without calling out one another. I'm just glad this is all happening on the D's side, and the R's are staying out of it.

fried
takes no responsibility for the mess

I would like to point out that none of the campaigns have said anything for the past two days. The non stop repetition by the media every ten minutes about how awful the parties are behaving and how can they possibly hope to heal the party after this open warfare . blah blah blah blah

It's all innuendo, rumor, mistatement, and lies compounded by a total lack of respect for the process and a complete inability to present anything resembling the news.

Why fall for the gargage the media is spewing?

fried
thanks for being such a jerk
you and KKKarl are giving us a permanent
Democratic majority.

Voters hate Bush. They hate the mess goopers made in eyerack, the Bush fantasy war game.

And rolling out BobDole McCain is nothing but a little walkaround.

CINDY SHEEHAN, AMERICA'S PEACE MOM, IS RUNNING FOR NANCY PELOSI'S SEAT...

http://cindyforspeaker.com/

Fried
headlines
Romney the candidate Republicans hate the most/
and the things they say about McCain. Republicans should be ashamed.

fried
I thought you were a deportation kinda guy
how can you support Mr Amnesty

Repuglicans....
here is a little known fact...

If a family is Repuglican, it is likely that their children will also be Repug. If a family is Democrat (the party of reason and intelligence) it is likely that their children will also WISELY be Democrat.

But if one parent is a Repug and one is a Democrat, it is most likely that the children will be DEMOCRAT.

In my family, my Dad is a Repug, but I blame that on him not having more than an 8th grade education. My Mother is a Dem, and my brother is a Pug and my sister and I are Dems... we sort of split too, but the majority is DEM. And fricken proud of it.

How anyone can gloat over voting for Bush43, and take pride in his assuming office, is beyond me.
WBush43 has been a disaster...Europe as a whole hates us.
We have de-stabilized Iraq and set Iran on edge.
We are deep in hock with China.
Only the situation with Korea has cooled, temporarily, anyway.
I am just surprised WBush 43 didn't nuke Vietnam...you know he would have been supported by half the US voters.
Iraq oil, fromthe aftermath of Shock & Awe, was supposed to stabiize our oil crisis. Oil hovers around $100 a barrel.
Now the economy is volatile, and whole neighborhoods are being emptied as people can't pay their bank notes.
Many factors, but his all happened on Cheney-Bush's watch.

Dexter when I moved to Europe in 98, we were really respected. Since I didn't live in the big cities where most Americans moved to.. i.e. Amsterdam or Brussel, people found having an American around very interesting. After the Bush fiasco, and the "you are either with us or against us" b.s. or "that's what I call OLD EUROPE", I heard complaints all the time by Europeans about how arrogant America was and who were we to tell them how to run their own countries? On the other hand, esp. in Belgium, there are many who remember that the USA helped save Europe from oppression. At one of my Dutch classes, an old woman, upon hearing that I was American... took my hand and looked in my eyes and had tears in her eyes. I was shocked. So it's a mixed bag, but Bush has done us no favours internationally.

Here's something we who are dems should read.

A letter to three Democrats: it isn’t about you
http://www.lastchancedemocracycafe.com/?p=1221

Cleveland Plain Dealer says Kucinich has officially withdrawn from the presidential race.

Supposedly this stimulus package needs to increase the flow of money into the economy "immediately" so what do they do? Come up with a proposal where the money won't reach people until June right about the time to turn around money in the pipeline received from tax payers who filed in April so that they can pay themselves.

The median income for a family of four is in the $50,000 rage, but the full bailout goes up to $75,000 while giving those most injured by the economy (non filing fixed income below poverty line) nothing.

Biggest share goes to business in a way that won't even see the light of day until next year's filing of taxes.

IOW pablum to make people feel good but do absolutely nothing. It they wanted to push liquidity into the market place, they could simply tack on $300 on every SS or Disability check issued in February or March. It would be spent immediately.

KG,
how can you support Mr Amnesty

I assume you mean McCain?
That is easy to explain. 1. he has changed his opinion on that, and 2. like you we don't get everything we want wrapped in one package. You have to pick and chose what you think is most important.

So long Dennis. From my own personal scrapbook:

Quiet Time with Dennis Kucinich: http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2007/11/quiet-time-with-dennis-kucinic.html

Signs Point to Third Way for Kucinich and Paul: http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2007/11/signs-point-to-third-way-for-k.html

jamie - bingo - these ridiculous feel good rebates are meant to be pablum for the traders and consumers so teh CC numbers will be good, they'll put more on credit, etc. in the short term.

Bye KG. Talk to you tomorrow.

So Fry Daddy do you think how sweet it is with all the young American soldiers who have died in an unnecessary war to appease Bush's bloodlust to get "payback" at Saddam Hussein? The Right wing voters have blood on their own hands. Everytime another soldier dies you can look in the mirror and be PROUD of your vote and say "HOW SWEET IT IS"

Goodnight.

BTW,

In all this uproar over the squabble in the playpen, has anyone seen any mention of the bombing in Mosul with the reported 20 dead and over 70 injured? You haven't? We have two 24 hour news stations, you would think they would mention that the death tollis now over 35 and today the chief of police and two other officers were killed as well.

Oh I forgot. That would be news.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7206391.stm

Fry
Did you vote for McCain thinking he had changed his position?

Here he is post the SC vote
http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx?id=07767d08-f30d-4183-9834-1be8e37b45fb

"I have not changed by position." immigration bill)
Senator McCain

hey Katherine, i am an unpaid supporter of Obama, how much do u make an hour working for BILLIARY? can u give me any tips on how i can get the obama campaign to start paying me for doing what u do which is writing stinky lies and garbage all day long. u are paid right? u write lies all day long or maybe u are getting paid per lies.... hmmmm in that case u should be a millionaire!

kgc...

Stop it! You're trying to confuse fry with facts! :-)

TTFN - gotta get the boy.

so typically obama yell lie but what lie was told
none

I see Obama must have another favorite gooper pol
Nixon the big lie technique

hey Craig, saw u on keith yesterday, do u get paid for ur commentary? if u do u should donate it to a charity of ur choice. how can u sleep at night knowing u get paid to talk about matters u dont have the slightest idea about. or i got a better idea why dont u use the money to pay for a BIAS course in florida, there are some near u. if i can direct u to one just let me know.... OBAMA 08

Harborwoman

I am kind of curious as to how Republicans will decide.
Fry and Ping won't vote for a Democrat no matter what
but what they say as a justification should be interesting.

For one thing they should not be allowed to step away from Bush...the mess we are in is more than Shrub it is' the Republican party. I have seen several attempts lately to pretend Shub will be gone so he doesn't count.

hey all, gonna try to get back after olbermann and gear up a debate-watching thread. big night for McCain. think Romney is pulling ahead here in FLA

hey Katherine, u better be careful if BILLIARY wins and u get a job at the white house bill loves those interns ;)

I'm kind of sorry to see Dennis go
I thought the Russert question about UFO's was disgusting and done deliberately.

johnr
here's a tip for you
cheeto breath won't help you get a date

Let's see we have GORDO for Clinton and John R. for Obama.

How do we get the bats back in the belfry?

kgc...

I agree that the mess we are in goes deeper than Bush...goes to what the Republican party is about at its core...which is money, profit over people (greed), and paving the way for big business to evade product and performance liability while amassing ever larger piles of cash. Today's "bailout" for the economy is a prime example.

If anyone skipped the link nanny posted at 4:03, please go back and take a look.

Katherine, are u saying u are open to a date or are u trying to advise me on how to get a date, if u are im not interested, i dont date bill clinton girls, too much mileage ;)

"The rebates, expected to go out in June, would cost about $100 billion, aides said. The package also includes close to $50 billion in business tax cuts."

Anyone got a guess where these bucks are coming from?

tt

Received this from the Edwards campaign. I'm curious. Have any of you who support other candidates received anything similar from them or their campaigns?

"When it comes to protecting the rule of law, words are not enough. We need action.

It's wrong for your government to spy on you. That's why I'm asking you to join me today in calling on Senate Democrats to filibuster revisions to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) that would give "retroactive immunity" to the giant telecom companies for their role in aiding George W. Bush's illegal eavesdropping on American citizens.

The Senate is debating this issue right now -- which is why we must act right now. You can call your Senators here:

Maria Cantwell, (D): (202) 224-3441
Patty Murray, (D): (202) 224-2621

Granting retroactive immunity is wrong. It will let corporate law-breakers off the hook. It will hamstring efforts to learn the truth about Bush's illegal spying program. And it will flip on its head a core principle that has guided our nation since our founding: the belief that no one, no matter how well connected or what office they hold, is above the law.

But in Washington today, the telecom lobbyists have launched a full-court press for retroactive immunity. George Bush and Dick Cheney are doing everything in their power to ensure it passes. And too many Senate Democrats are ready to give the lobbyists and the Bush administration exactly what they want.

Please join me in calling on every Senate Democrat to do everything in their power -- including joining Senator Dodd's efforts to filibuster this legislation -- to stop retroactive immunity and stand up for the rule of law. The Constitution should not be for sale at any price.

Thank you for taking action.

John Edwards
January 24, 2008"

I can't be online (at the computer) and watch the TV at the same time, Will it be online somewhere?

tt

Good for John Edwards

people can follow the fisa debate over at
Firedoglake

johnr you are a guest on this blog that is owned by Craig Crawford. Do you insult all your hosts? You are a very rude person and if I had the authority I would ban you from here just from your last post. Be nice.

yo soy Horsedooty!

Edwards need to drop out too, how can anyone talk about being electable and cant get more than 4 percent of the vote in nevada?

tt...

Check the msnbc website. My guess is that it'll be live streamed from there.

Thanks HW. I'll try to do that.

tt

Jamie says, "How do we get the bats back in the belfry?"

Ha, Jamie -- Bats usually fly away on their own. Let the bats be bats.

Katherine, u are such a whiny cry-baby grow up please, u say im rude and all u do all day is insult and write rude stupid lying comments especially about obama...now who is the rude person get a life cry baby. what u gonna do run to craig and tell him i insulted u for writing stupid lying remarks, go ahead and run to big daddy. hmmm u would ban me for my remarks but u can say anything u want hahaha grow up cry baby

tt...

I just took a look at their website... www.msnbc.com ...but didn't see anything about live-streaming the debate. You will probably need to go to their website shortly before the debate begins to find it.

Sir Galahad Horsedooty :-)

hey Katherine, furthermore if u act like a lady with class i will treat u as one....... ;)

HW
Just checked my spam trap address

Nothing from Obama or HRC

I think Chelsea just ask me out on a date
The emails says "join me at the debate"

wonder what I should wear?

Jack

John R

You have insulted Craig
You have insulted KGC
You have insulted any woman who supports Clinton

If you find the company so unpleasant, please feel free to go elsewhere: May I suggest hell.

John R, if 25 people say your are fat chances are you are fat. It was me that said your were rude this last time.

yo soy Horsedooty!

John r said
"hey Katherine, furthermore if u act like a lady with class i will treat u as one....... ;)"

So "kaaatherine", when he winks like that , is he flirting with you?

Just a wonderin'

Jack

Jamie, hmmm what are now craig protector? kgc protector? interns that bill are interested in protectors? i love this company thats why i am here love talking to u whinning BILLIARY cry-baby that like to throw punches but cant take a punch. in regards to hell u bringing the ice? cuz i will definetly see u there ;) what color dress will u be wearing?

jamie, may i second that?

johnr

the only thing I asked you to do is to say what lies I had posted.

I did have a little tip because you seem kind of sad and loney. But my bad for trying to be of help.

Jamie,

old saying, you find out two things happen when you wrestle with pigs. First you get muddy and dirty and the second is that the pig likes it.

yo soy Horsedooty!

Hey whyskyjack, stay out of husband and wife disputes, this is between me and my darling Katherine, we are going through a rough time in our relationship due to being on opposing sides in this prez election ;)

hey Craig, I can cap your Countdown appearance tonight

Thanks Dooty,

I won't tickle the pig again.

if we all ignore jonh r. maybe he'll slink away.

craig...choose the scalpel and perform surgery.
Fritz needs company where the fishes sleep.

John r said
"Hey whyskyjack"

Hmmmmm

now that is very interesting.
sock puppets eh?

makes me wonder who gordo is

Jack

Jack

*L* @ horse. Good one!

HW, I'll try that too.

tt

Jamie, et al
Seconded & more. The insults hurled by John R are typical of know-nothings. Offers nothing of substance & exposes his lack or respect.

John R. If you are an Obama supporter, you should be ashamed, as you did nothing to enhance your candidate's standing.

hey coreen, i have read all the post today and the majority of what i have read is opinions and nothing pertaining to facts.... u defend them but u criticize me which u have a right, also maybe u need to look up the word insult again and reread post by kathy and the rest of all u BILLIARY cry-babies, here u go some more tissue to wipe ur running nose and weeping eyes, grow up BILLIARY-ITES

guys, we've learned this many times -- responding to jerks only encourages them

hey coreen, there are certain people on this board that are paid to post, there is nothing i or any obama supporter can say that can change their minds, they do what they do for the a price and there is a word in the english dictionary that describes people who do things for a price....hmmmmm

respond with a nuke. you know where the big red button is.

horsedooty, is that the best u can come up with, try again

It looks like instead of a Obama supporter {IE: John R} we have another Republican Fascist Nazi trolling here to cause dissent.

Go kiss your Fuehrer's ?ss John R.

And God Bless all the regulars.

hey jamie...how was it Sweeney Todd disposed of his victims...a tilting chair and a trap door?...hmmmmmm.....

I am a Republican, and at times I’m embarrassed by the lack of cooperation that this president and his appointees have had with the legislative branch.There is a seething resentment by members of Congress who are Republicans by the fact that this administration has not even cooperated with us. Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA)

must be up for re-election

This blog is alot like Southern New Hampshire. A idyllic backwater for a long, long time. Once the interstates got built, alot of new people moved in. Some were good, others a pain, but you gotta live with them. Hopefully the ones that stick around here will adopt a community spirit rather than build fences and hurl insults. But if they don't, they better be able to take as good as they give.

anon! Maybe Ginger can chase the rat out!

Yes sir, Bowmanc, time t'circle the wagons .

wooohooooo ap

Questions that will not be asked tonight

Anything about the FISA BILL
Why Ron Paul keeps beating Rudee just did it again in Lousiana.
How did we get in thei economic mess? Why did the Republicans who were totally in charge allow it.

" A idyllic backwater for a long, long time. Once the interstates got built, alot of new people moved in."

ROFL, Bow!!!!

Well it appears that neither Clinton or Obama went to Washington today to fight for our Constitution with regards to the Telco's immunity for violating our Fourth Amendment rights by spying on us for Der Fuhrer Adolph Bush and the Dark Lord Dick Heinrich Himmler Cheney.

It is beginning to appear that neither one will rescind the Dictatorial Powers that the Republican Fascist Nazi's along with enabling Democrats and Democratic Collaborators such as Judas Iscariot Lieberman have given to the Fuhrer.

I believe now that our country is indeed lost and we will be at War with Iran before November. World War III is just around the corner and it will be a Nuclear War.

Our country is truly f*cked.

God Bless.

dexter...

Ginger wouldn't waste her time with a low life like the rat your taking about.

God Bless.

Goodbye to you old Skinny Dennis, the only one I think I will miss...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080124/ap_on_el_pr/kucinich_withdraws

-Hipster

The banker that lost 7.2 Billion Dollars must have been a Republican, you think?

God Bless.

sits down beside bri.. SO..how was yer day?

this is for all u BILLIARY cry-babies that throw punches but cant take one rofl - the clintons are just plain lying and no good criminals that will say anything to get elected. i wonder why they pulled the ad?

GREENVILLE, S.C. -- Under fire for airing misleading attacks on Sen. Barack Obama, the Clinton campaign has pulled a radio ad that quoted the Illinois senator calling Republicans "the party of ideas" and suggesting he thought those ideas superior to Democratic ones. But the Obama campaign has already counter-punched, launching a new radio spot saying Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton will "say anything" to get elected.

God Hipster, I adore you for knowing the Skinny Dennis line...

"Say goodbye to the landlord for me, sons-a-bitches always bore me."

Apologies to all the others who know it....:)

Bowman,

lol

I should be used to it. The freeways ruined Los Angeles a long time ago ... durn easterners. !!!

my day? long and tedious... I think we should start a pool.. two pools actually.. 1) how many times is Ronald Reagan going to be mentioned.. (closest wins).. and 2) how many times will Rudy say 9-11?

I am a Clinton supporter. I will not vote for Obama if he is the nominee. I don't appreciate anyone saying that the hard work they've put in for the party and the results they've achieved for the nation were wrong or bad.

I still do not know why Obama should be running for president.

I will leave the party if he is a nominee.

anon-paranoid: with all due respect, had Senators Clinton and Obama flown back to Washington to vote nothing would have changed. Instead of losing the bill 60-36 it would have been 60-38.

On the other hand the debate has been postponed until Monday. We'll see what happens then.

As election day approaches, all campaigns return to their own message.

Craig, I don’t see you much anymore due to long working hours trying to survive (Bush years and three downsizings), but I used to really like you. From what I have heard, though, it would seem you are behind Thunder Thighs Clinton and BJ Bigmouth Lieing Clinton. In the ’90s I considered Clinton the best president since JFK. Hilliary was a smart woman who we all knew had “aspirations” and most definitely needed attention.

But, since they have teamed up to continuously lie and distort (or worse having their talking “cronies” do it for them) about Obama, I have come to loathe them. I have requested a primary ballot and a general election ballot in Ohio to vote by mail. If Hilliary is the nominee, I will tear up the ballot for the general election; I will not vote for her. Never. I’ve come to hate that lying mouth that seems to speak ArkanYork, especially when she talks about “cheeennngggeee”, something she did not seem to want to run on since she was supposed to be the candidate with “experience”, not change.

Seems to be a lot of Clintonion supporters, which accounts for some of the Obama bashing. He is the most intelligent, clear thinking, good, logical (we sure have missed that for about 8 years), easy to listen to candidate to come along since John F. Kennedy. I am an old, white female who would love to see Obama in the WH. Does anyone think “the Clintons” will be able to get anything done with the Congress and Senate? Better pray for a Dem sweep. We need unity, intelligence, and logic. They cannot give this country that. They are still fighting the 90s scandals. If JKF had not used logical, intuitive thinking with the Bay of Pigs, one must wonder where we would be today. Maybe speaking Russian!!!

It is time for the torch to be passed…to Barak Obama and his likewise intelligent appointees. The Clintons need to go home, but we all know they will never give up. They need that power.

Obama's comments on voters seems arrogant. Do not really care for that. It reminds me of his demeanor after he won IA at the NH debate. He strolled out as if he was already president. It was a turn off for me.

ran
I wish they had come back and shown some leadership on the issue. Edwards issued a statement and emailed his campaign list to contact their senators.

I think Obama and Clinton could have at least done that. I am disappointed.

Maybe if they had focused attention and people knew what was going on the results might have been different.

Far be it from me to point out both Clinton and Obama have taken big chunks of change from the phone companies.

um.. I know i'm not up on all my history..but wasnt the Bay of Pigs a disaster?

I'm voting for Pedro!

In regards to Karolenna's comment on Hardball there were two African Americans, one man and the other a woman.

The man said that since Bill turned the SC race into a race where Obama was now the Black Candidate he had played the race card. He than said that come November that what Bill did would not be forgotten.

I think the tactics used just may have split the Democratic base.

What do you think?

God Bless.

PS: You can see it on the reruns tonight maybe. Hardball is on again now if interested. Its near the end of the show.

Karolenna, finally at last a friend!!!!! :) its lonely in here, i feel like daniel in the lions den and the three hebrew boys in the fiery furnace lol. thanks for ur post i will look forward to ur future post. maybe we can change this board into a obama board. did u see this article in SC newspaper, this is just a portion of it but i wonder why billiary pulled this ad.... no one here dare touch it, including the bias craig and his disciples....

GREENVILLE, S.C. -- Under fire for airing misleading attacks on Sen. Barack Obama, the Clinton campaign has pulled a radio ad that quoted the Illinois senator calling Republicans "the party of ideas" and suggesting he thought those ideas superior to Democratic ones. But the Obama campaign has already counter-punched, launching a new radio spot saying Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton will "say anything" to get elected.

A little something different before y'all launch into the NEXT debate.

Want to enter??

http://www.norwoodmall.com/ugly/

tt

KGC: I agree they should have done more although I don't think it would have made a dimes worth of difference.

Is Karolenna actually John R.'s alter ego?

new thread auto-posting at 8:45 pm for tonight's debate, see ya right here after olbermann for live blogging. who's gettin the kegger?

Invitation?...I didn't receive any stinkin' invitation from Chelsea!!

Alas, it's the story of my life...

Just give Obama the damned nomination. It is now to the point that a real primary cannot be held. Any normal attacks that so often happen during a primary are being called racist, ginned up partly by the controversy loving media, partly by right wingers slobbering with glee, and yes, partly by people looking for a modern day prophet. So I say, ENOUGH. Standards and rules have been changed.

There is no way to run against the spin. GIVE the man the nomination.

i got two linda. one must be yours. lol

Who are all those Owl People. Has my flock moved to Florida?

patsi, that may be the only way he'll get it.

Oh no champagne tonight?

tt

Bowmanc, its already happening tthe infamous PATSI has declared GIVE the man the nomination, she iis our first convert, one convet at a time :)

LOL @ nannymm

Patsi, No, No, No

If he is going to get the nomination I want him to have to be bloodied, scarred and bruised. This is the prize fight, nobody should have their opponent take a dive in this contest. Bare knuckles, down & dirty ,it is the american way.

Everybody read your history, we had prominent politicians fight duels with live ammo. This is nothing. Bring it on.

dont tell anyone craig.. but I stashed the kegger behind the couch

tylenol: what's it worth to you for me to keep my mouth shut?

Tom Dealy is on Hardball
isn't he supposed to be going to jail
why is he on teevee

tweety is such a gooper fluffer

tylenol: nevermind I can't read

I have nothing against Obama. He is just another politician who can give a great speech. However, in my opinion, he is playing his followers for chumps. What does it take to show the Obama groupies that he is a major-league con-artist? Just look at the Obama campaign in SC. What happened to the "new" kind of politics? The Clintons have shown the world the "real" Obama. They had to get him off his media-created pedestal. Obama took the bait.

I read Craig's article above, but just got around to reading the Obama interview for CBN. Now CBN is notoriously far right. I supposed Obama should speak to them, but some of the things he says are not pleasant.

Among other things he is blaming the Clinton camp for those infamous "muslim" emails. Now we all know we have been receiving them for months, that they are right wing hatchet jobs, and has gone viral among the far right wing nuts. I find it disconcerting that Obama would blame this on the Clintons.

Yikes, a lot of hateration in this dancerie this evening. It's a turn-off, man.

Anyhoo, everybody go to Fishbowl DC, scroll down the page to the caption contest, and vote. Why yes, as a matter of fact, I *am* a finalist; mine is 'Kerry: "Look, my relevance!" Obama: "Shhh..."'. So go vote for my caption (right now I'm in second place). What's in it for me? Not a goddamn thing. What's in it for you? Only my never-ending love and affection. Don't think I'm as hilarious as *I* think I am? Then feel free to vote for someone else's caption. This is a democracy, and I'll still love you all, I promise.

Besides, it'll give us a chance to cool off and calm down, yes? Yes.

http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowldc/

LOL ran

I really dont understand people who say they'll sit it out if their candidate doesnt win.. that's idiotic.. that's how Dubya got close enough to steal it in the first place.. people stayed home! Take that ballot, Karol, hold yer nose, and vote for hillary if she's the nominee. and you live in Ohio? where it got stolen last time? This has the potential to be an historic election.. the dems can take all three.. and yer not going to be a part of it just cos you don't like Hillary's thighs? If Hillary's the nominee, you won't have another chance to vote for a woman for a long long time.

Julia,

Done. You are in second place. Hurry over gang and

geterdone!

Ya got my vote, too, Julia

Nannymm

Craig will be hosting under a new blog topic. It requires constant reloading but it's fun. Change over will be in two to five minutes depending on Craig's computer clock.

Julia: I want to vote for you but I need to know your position on this picture first

http://www.dependablerenegade.com/dependable_renegade/2008/01/looks-they-kill.html

thanks, jamie

Oops Nannymm

One hour and two minutes. :0(

Time difference from where I sit.

I had said a short time ago that I would vote for whomever the Democratic nominee is.

Now having said that I would rather have the nominee be chosen by arguing the issues instead of by color, race or gender.

If they don't start soon and drop this crap on both sides they will split the party and destroy the base.

Once again I will say for the record that I don't believe there will be elections in November and I'll state why again just in case you haven't seen my reasons before.

If we have elections and a Democrat wins the Presidency than whomever it is will have the power under the MCA of 2006 to label all those in this current administration enemy combatants. They can have them all arrested and held with no right to a lawyer or court hearing indefinitely.

Now who really believes that Der Fuhrer Adolph Bush will let any Democrat let alone Hillary Clinton have that power?

Our country is no longer the country our forefathers left us. We are under a Dictatorship only we still believe we have all our Constitutional Rights.

Wake up America!!!

One day you will go to bed and when you awaken in the morning you will find Blackwater patrolling the streets and when they say your papers please you better damn well have them.

And if Hillary is elected with no Martial Law to stop the election, then we will really have to wonder if we just traded one Decider for another.

She should rescind all the Dictatorial Powers the Presidency will have and fully restore our Constitution on her first day in office. Then we will know if there will be any change for the better. If not we will be even more screwed.

The same goes for Obama.

However, I believe that Martial Law will be enacted because we will now be at War with Iran. When the People stand up and take to the streets to protest Martial Law will be enacted and like I said above Blackwater will be on your streets and shooting American Citizens for protesting.

If Hillary and Obama aren't careful they will destroy the Democratic Party.

God Bless.

Patsi,

Did you ever run into a photographer named Jim McGuire? I just picked up a book of his titled Nashville Portraits. It is a wonderful collection of black & white photos of Legends of Country Music. These pictures are fantastic; the book jacket has Bill Monroe & his mandolin.

Jamie, lmao! I was looking for craig's new post. thanks for the correction

"Patsi, No, No, No If he is going to get the nomination I want him to have to be bloodied, scarred and bruised. This is the prize fight, nobody should have their opponent take a dive in this contest. Bare knuckles, down & dirty ,it is the american way. Everybody read your history, we had prominent politicians fight duels with live ammo. This is nothing. Bring it on. "
____________

I'm saying call off the rest of the voting. Cancel Super Tuesday. No matter what happens this is going to be called racist, whether its a bunch of old women in NH or Latinos in Nevada. Michelle Obama just said, "If youcan't run your own house, how can you run the country?" The campaign spin was that she was talking about her own family. I like Ms. Obama....but that was a slap in the face of every woman who has had marital problems. The attitude in the media? "Oh, she didn't mean anything."

So screw it.

Just pat him on the head and hand him the nomination whether he earned it or not.

Patsi

Stay away from the liberal political blogs and turn off the TV.
Your OD ing on politics.
Take a break and remember

New Hampshire

LOL
same old MSM
just a new state
They haven't got anything right yet.

Just to be serious for a minute
look at this young man.
be patient listen to him to what he has to say.
I think he hits the nail on the head.
It is a historic election.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1LhYC_2ybo

Jack

We always knew Tucker was a Bigot. Now we know Matthews is as well.

nah, I want a brawl.. it'll get 'em all revved up for the saloon fight that's coming

If he doesn't earn it now, he won't win it in November. maybe he will get a pass based on liberal guilt in the deomocratic party, but he won't in the general election.

Don't you just love the Republican we're more patriotic than you openings?

Okay guys, putting the kiddos to bed and then I'll be back for the debate, should be a good one!!! Better get some wine ready!

I think I'm think now I'm leaning towards Romney or Huckabeee, shoot I don't know!

besides, the only people i've heard go on and on about the infighting have been the MoJoe's of this world...

KO!!!!! LOLOLOLOL

Neville Chamberlain just rolled over.

Jennbe

Feel the force. Turn your back on the darkside. Walk towards the light.

Happier will be then you

Okay , I voted for you , Julia. Where's my never-ending love and affection? LOL! I'm still trying to win a t-shirt from Letterman in those weekly top ten contests!

*sitting on my hands*

hey, I capped Craig's segment on Countdown but I have having trouble with Windows Media Player and can't view it myself. So can someone check to see if it's showing up

http://isleofran.org/cc-countdown.htm

thanks in advance

For about a nanosec on my laptop Ran.

hmmm thanks Sheila

ran, it's showing up but plays fast, in fast forward on my pc

Sorry Ran

Only a second and then blinks out.

nannymm: thank you kindly

I think I am fixing it now, let me stress the word think

From what I remember about the Bay of Pigs (remember…I was a young person then), Kennedy called Khrushchev’s bluff and it worked. How many politicians could use their “gut” instinct along with real intelligent, logical thinking today and try something like that and have it work. Am I correct? It was John and Bobby Kennedy making that decision together. I am open to correction if you can give me something substantive, but if you read what Ted Soresen, who was by their side at the time, said I am correct.

And to those blacks who question Obama and support Billary, I cannot conceive of them doing so no more than I could never, ever understand a black Republican. Yes, Lincoln was a Republican (wasn’t he?), but he was also very, very liberal. Republicans were liberal in that time. I cannot believe that the Clintons have sold the blacks that they are their candidate. I just cannot understand it.

And Jamie, I have watched and listened to Craig Crawford so many years…probably not as often as I would like. I used to watch him on Imus when I was getting ready for work in the morning until (well, you know), but now that Imus is on “something else”, I don’t hear Craig as much unless he is on Hardball. I’m pretty much a political junkie who watches all of the cSpans, Hardball, Keith Obermann, and when I don’t like who is on any of those…I watch “Everybody Loves Raymond” reruns. Even I can’t take some of the crap that is on at times. Besides, some day I may be colleagues of Craig’s parents at Walmart. Isn’t that where they work sometimes, Craig?

I just believe this country needs real change…not more of the trash talking that has gone on in the last 16 or so years. The Clintons remind me of more Rovism and that is not something any country needs, especially the US. I also watch some of the international news and talk shows. The rest of the world, from what I’ve seen and heard, thinks an Obama presidency could actually bring this world more together. Since the ’04 convention, I’ve read all of Obama’s books and studied him, and read almost everything I can about him.

To be very honest with you all (that’s not ya’all), when I was making really big bucks (just a few months ago) I donated to both Edwards and Obama…the same amounts to each. My dream team would be Edwards/Obama; then Obama could go on to become the president after Edwards had run his term. But, unfortunately, I just don’t think John Edwards, as good as he is and Elizabeth are, will make it to the end.

thks Jamie, the 142KB file size should have tipped me off, I'm such a goober at times

Karolenna.. For real change then in the general election I suggest you vote Mitt..... As to your point HRC will not be change

Also, it was the Missle Crisis not Bay of Pigs - but the point is made.

Growing up in Florida that is when they taught us to duck and cover, Put your head between your legs and kiss your..... good bye

you're confusing the Bay of Pigs with the Cuban missle crisis

Pre game says Huckster goes after Mitt with aggression tonight. Attacking his business record....

While Huckster,, at least he has a business record

Karolenna,

For a whole variety of reasons, I'm a major supporter of Hillary Clinton, most of which I have delineated here at one time or another.

If it turns out that Obama (or anyone else for that matter) is the nominee, I will gladly follow that person.
I like Edwards a great deal, but don't feel that he has what it takes to be as strong as necessary in the modern world - somewhat like Jimmy Carter. I like Obama, but don't feel that this is his time. He simply has not been playing on the world stage long enough. I would wholeheartedly be in his camp if he had even half of Senator Clinton's world experience. As it is, call me in eight years.

Olberman's 5th Segment was outstanding tonight. I can't wait to watch a rerun in the following days.

Karolena welcome to the blog! Obama is a man of integrity to his standing up with integrity against all odds. It going to be a heck of a fight. Lets hope We see a change. I think Obama/Edwards would be great, but I think Edwards/Obama is great too.

NEW THREAD

Bay of Pigs was actually something different..had to do with the "liberation" of Cuba and nightclubs and the mob.. and conventional wisdom now says that it was JFK that was snookered by the military.. ya know how those military guys are..

But i get what you mean.. the missile crisis.. I dont think international concerns really care who the nominee is, as long as it isnt a clone of Dubya.. someone who actually respects the sovereignty of other nations..

And again, If Obama does not make it then understand the deep fellings for a need of outsider change. HRC is just the same old thing....

Mitt will welcome you all to the party of true change for a stronger america - built on individual responsibility, and the American Way

NEW DEBATE THREAD IS UP

Obama should make an independent or third party bid if he doesn't get the nomination. He could plausibly get elected, but even if he doesn't, he would almost guarantee Hillary doesn't, which would be just as good, both for the country and for Democrats. The country can't handle 4-8 more years of the Clintons.

Ping Pong, sorry but you must not have read either of my two posts to date. I am not for HRC; never will be. She’s too divisive! About four years ago I would have been for the Billary’s. Not now. They have shown their true colors and that is out-and-out lying to the public only to win this primary. They have misrepresented Obama on just about everything he says. Either it is they who misrepresent him or one of their cronies who does so. Then…they will say “I didn’t say that”. No! Dah! It is twisted and turned to whatever they want it to sound like to try to make them look good. Even more has come out about the “slum lord” comment she made in the debates the other night. That was all misrepresented, but it was a sound bite that is out there forever…just as the racial slurs that will not go away. I don’t see color when I see and hear Obama. Never have. But, that is me as a person. I either like you or dislike you…no matter the color. Besides, do most know he is half white and half black?

To all: Sorry to have confused the Bay of Pigs with the Cuban Missile crisis. Must be old age, but it's been a hell of a life. I'm still going strong and fighting, though...at least today.

I just want change...real change. Change can be so refreshing even with the uncertainty of it. HRD is not change no matter what s/he says or does. If s/he is the nominee, I truly believe the Republicans have a real chance to win. That’s not what this country needs at all right now. It will probably be “Mit” or whoever wins in Florida, and it looks like he is in a good place right now with his money. And…talk about elitist? “Mit” is truly an elitist name if I ever heard one!!! And, the money to do anything he ever wanted to do, even become president of the United States!!! Only in this country!!!!

I am liberal to my bones, not an ounce of conservative in me. But I will not vote for Hillary Clinton under any circumstances.

She's elided enough for me already.

craig crawford has been a hillary boy for a long time - he really should not be treated as a commenter or an observer because he is totally in the clinton camp-- that's his business but he should have a disclaimer

for me - I am strong obama supporter and even if Barack asked - I could never vote for a clinton again - I just could not do it --

Barack would never be her vp - he would never disappoint us like that

and it's not over yet anyway
Maybe he wins SC by 10%plus -- and then a slew of super delegate endorsements and then it comes out that--
who knows but some clinton related mud---

Hillary Clinton lost me and a lot of others this year and there is no going back

Never thought I could say it but will hold my nose and vote for McCain --

I agree with Amber and I like Craig, but we need truth in advertising.

BTW , someone is reporting that Begala and Carville are banned from CNN until after the primaries.

Craig, you got a problem with that?

rpktzyve foikuy fqrhucst oytsj izjsgwek rpfiewy fugtyil

iklf qjklwhes mctuy iwvdxjo dfwxo rhogfcq lkotfr http://www.tgufb.ijrwvsgmk.com