Craig Crawford's Trail Mix

the obama drug use as political problem is a washington post story they started in January of last year and they keep it alive.

1. Washington Post Jan 2007
unease about Obama's drug candor
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/02/AR2007010201359_pf.html
and this was a post reporter this time too
gee
msgop was reporting almost a year ago the obama used cocaine
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?p=1017085

I dont subscribe to the theory that Clinton is using it to stop Obama I think this is a media invention and the Clinton campaign stupidly got caught up in it.

The Clinton campaign mistake is they have forgotten the media hates them and will lie, twist and distort to bring her down.

I have the flu. Is there a doctor in the house?

more craptastic baloney from msgop

Mika B just said she thinks women shoud be subservient to men ala the Huckster statements

and then beadyeye tried to say it is not what it seems
that its jsut boilerplate and southern baptist women dont submit. its just an act

so I guess they are saying Huclsterbee is a liar and a hypocrite like all the folks at msgop

I've also had the dreaded flu, Corey. It ain't fun.

"The Clinton campaign mistake is they have forgotten the media hates them and will lie, twist and distort to bring her down."

I wouldn't quite support a wholesale damnation of all the media and "hatred", but rather that the Clintons both pro and con are News. They are the political equivalent of the Hollywood gossip columns.

Anything that is said about them doesn't have to be true as long as Chris/Joe et al of the garbage host (?) pundits can get their names into the first sentence. So if it injures, distorts, or damages is unimportant as long as it attracts eyeballs.

If anything this is an Obama dirty trick. They saw an opportunity because they knew they could twist the story keep it alive and misrepresent the facts to their advantage and are using it for fundraising.

But they should have paid attention to whom was stirring up the most trouble between the Clinton Obama campaign and that was the folks from the Edwards campaign ...

Re "Submission".

As usual Joe managed to get things exactly wrong, but not without help. The actual teaching (agree or disagree) is that a woman will be subservient to man as man is to God, and just as God supports, loves and cherishes Man so man must support, love and cherish woman so that woman/man can act as partners toward their children before God and society. It's all part of that "Honor thy father and mother" commandment.

Men being what they are, the second half of the teaching tends to slip their minds. :-)

Corey..... here's some chicken soup comin' attcha....

dnd.... what the hell happened to the Broncos last night.... it was painful to watch..... but I imagine more so for you.... sorry about that....

Zoey.... I've been knitting mittens with a yarn combination of 80% alpaca and 20% merino wool...... it's luscious to work with.... there's a big alpaca farm about 1/2 mile from me.....

Craig.... I know we joke around about your tie...... but really and sincerely.... that tie you wore last night was awesome..... it looked like something I could have woven with my handpainted yarns....

woke up this morning to 10 inches of beautiful light and fluffy freshly fallen snow....... YES!

OK...... show of hands...... who here has NEVER tried a drug in there life..... (mine's down..... way down).....

Hell, I'm stoned now and I still wouldn't vote for Obama.

And can we really trust Obama as President if, as a 20 year old drug user, he didn't share his stash with his friends?

Way back in the ancient recesses of time ... exactly one time each for LSD, Pot, Cocaine. I don't like the effect and stayed with coffee & cigarettes. Finally gave up cigarettes after 40 years.

Obama: Hey.....Let me in.....it's me, Barack.....

Voice from within: Nooooo, man......Barack's not here

All drugs should be legal and available without prescription but appropriately labeled,

KGC......that's Wm F. Buckley's position also......

Joe's interviewing Edwards. Edwards is doing a great job with his positions and views so naturally Joe has to be a complete ass by asking three questions in a row trying to get Edwards to take slaps at Hillary.

This is exactly the sort of thing that we hate about campaigns and it is almost always caused by some media low life like Joe "Don't bother me with intelligent conversation, I want dirt."

Sturgeone

Well that's kind of creepy. But Im stickining with it.

rr
The question about Obama is if he sold drugs would it effect your vote.

Generalizing people under sixty are less sensitive about drug use then people over and as the boomers get older no one will care.

Too bad Obama didn't say: "I thought it was better to do drugs when I was 20 than the be president of my collage's young Republicans Club, like SOMEONE I know..."

"Just one more cow" is getting big play on the Imus show.......with full credit to Craig......

KGC

I don't think the Boomers care about early experimentation (as opposed to intense usage) with drugs or alcohol. I don't want a politician trusted with life and death spending any time with impairment of any kind, but anything they might have done or tried before their current life is really none of my business and totally unimportant to a vote.

The problem with Bush usage is that he apparently didn't give up any of the practices until 40 which means he had over 20 years of indulgence... not a good thing in a position that needs a full time functioning judgement center in the brain.

maybe someone should ask what were the alcohol intakes of various presidents.......none of them prior to bush were teetotalers, (maybe Jimma Cotta, but not sure about that) ......and many were drunk quite often during their terms......

Presidents and alcohol

http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/o_ALCOHOL.html

The above doesn't mention George Washington being one if not the largest distiller of whiskey in the country or that "punches" and beer were drunk by everyone in the U.S. to counter the fact that water was often a bad idea.

nice site......unless i didnt look far enough they left out a few of the recent ones.....LBJ, Kennedy, Nixon, Ford, Ike, Truman, etc.....inquiring minds want to know.....

Renee,
I think "just one more cow" should be the new motto for the Broncos...

Here's an interesting tidbit on LBJ

President Lyndon B. Johnson's favorite drink may have been scotch and soda. He would ride around his Texas ranch in an open convertible in hot weather. He drank his "scotch and soda out of a large white plastic foam cup. Periodically, Johnson would slow down and hold his left arm outside the car, shaking the cup and ice. A Secret Service agent would run up to the car, take the cup and go back to the station wagon (following the President's car). There another agent would refill it with ice, scotch, and soda as the first agent trotted behind the wagon. then the first agent would run the refilled cup up to LBJ's outstretched hand, as the President's car moved slowly forward."

People may not like it, but Bill Shaheen is right. If Obama gets the nomination, the Republicans will pull quotes out that book and out of context, and run it with a grainy dark image of some doper that looks like Obama, with a voiceover saying stuff like "can you trust a drug abuser to run the country?" or "Obama says he quit using drugs, can you trust a drug user to tell the truth?" It will be relentless, and they won't apologize.

Sturgeon, From prowling around all I can find re Kennedy, Truman, FDR is light alcohol usage ... social one or two cocktail types. FDR was said to make the world's worst martinis that he insisted on serving guests. There is a cute Truman story:

When Harry Truman found himself in the White House, he was introduced to the White House bartender. The bartender informed the new president that he (the bartender) could make any cocktail the president could think of. Truman replied the he and Bess were very fond of Dry Manhattans. The bartender duly made the Manhattan with a recipe similar to the one above and brought them to the president and Mrs. Truman. The next evening, the bartender again asked what would the president like to drink. Truman said that they would like another dry Manhattan, but that last night's one was a little too sweet, and could the bartender use a little less vermouth. The bartender duly obliged, and the following nigh again had the request for less vermouth. This time he poured two glasses of straight whiskey. President Truman took a sip and said "Now that's a Manhattan".

I am sure that all of the campaigns have the Obama drug angle covered in their opposition research files. If this issue is exhaustively covered now, will that not help to ‘hang a lantern’ on his problem as RFK would advise?

However, it would probably not be a wise way to exploit his Oprah connection by having an emotional tell-all session on her TV show. That would be too touchy-feely for the male vote, but Oprah could include some nifty samples for the audience to take home.

I didnt point it out, but i was thinking of presidents since the end of WWII primarily.....when the world was different and the pres might really be "on call" 24 hrs a day......

while in the current case it might be better with a binge or two.....

With regards to Tweety and Scarborough's open season on Hillary:

from RFK Jr:

Even some Democrats who agree with Hillary Clinton on every issue and consider her an effective, inspiring leader, fret that the blind, irrational hatred, that burdened her husband during his presidency and that continues to dog his wife, might impair her electability. "She is too polarizing" they say, parroting the verdict of television's Sunday morning gas bags.

It's worth recalling the historical parallels with an earlier presidential couple. "No other word than hatred will do," observed a May 1936, Harper's Magazine feature "They Hate Roosevelt" by Marquis W. Childs. "The phenomenon to which I refer goes beyond objection to policies or programs. It is a consuming personal hatred of President Roosevelt and, to an almost equal degree, of Mrs. Roosevelt."

Childs deemed this "fanatical hatred" so intense and irrational that it could only be explained as the product of "abnormal psychology." Historian William Manchester described how Roosevelt haters "abandoned themselves in orgies of presidential vilification." William Bird, curator of political history at the Smithsonian Institution said that "by 1936, the 'Roosevelt haters' had developed into a well-defined cult among the nation's business elite," their lackeys in the press and on the editorial boards and among right wing Christian theocrats led by fascist radio host Father Charles Coughlin.

"In history, this hatred may well go down as the major irony of our time," wrote Childs. "The majority of those who rail against the [Roosevelts] have to a large extent had their incomes restored and their bank balances replenished since the low point of 1933," before FDR came to power. "That is what makes the phenomenon so incredible. It is difficult to find a rational cause for this hatred."

Describing the same baffling dynamics, a bewildered contemporary magazine editor created an inventory of the most vitriolic Roosevelt haters, including the CEOs of Phillips Petroleum, National Steel, DuPont, General Foods, Monsanto Chemical and General Motors, and then recorded the tremendous growth in their stocks which had all flourished since the implementation of Roosevelt's New Deal policies.

more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr/hillary-haters-and-the-ro_b_76573.html

Ford was known to be a fairly heavy drinker but gave up all alcohol when it became a problem for Betty.

JFK was in the "couple of cocktails" class.

Regan was almost a teatotler. Would comment that he didn't know why anyone would want more than one before lunch or dinner.

Nixon, particularly toward the end of his presidency, was known to be a very heavy drinker as was Pat

Can't find anything on Clinton, but coming from an alcoholic family I would guess little or nothing.

Anybody else you want?

tweety unhinged
his whole show is going to be about the Clinton campaign and what is wrong with it.

no one else is still covering the Obama Ciinton story

msgop home of the Hillary Haters

KGC...
I will not be voting for Obama in the primary.....
but if he gets the Dem nomination........ HELL, YES.... I'll vote for him...

(and none of the above has anything to do with drug selling or use)

JoeCHI..... where you been?..... don't be such a stranger....

OK..... who wants a margarita?

KGC

I actually left MoJoe this morning for CNN and I don't like the CNN morning show. Matthews and Scarborough have gone over the Hillary Hatred edge of the universe.

Brian will be happy that the more MSNBC slams Hillary the more I reject any consideration of Obama, and outside of my first love Biden for the Caucus if he is still in, I'm going for Clinton or Edwards.

Before I go off to pay the workers, I found this little tid bit. A Global Tax. How sweet, and the US is expected to pay a larger share. Gee, image that. But how much larger and who will have to pay. Certainly not the poor they have no money, the rich, whoever they are, and yes the middle class that would be anyone making over $45K a year. What trust worthy country or entity would over see this vast amount of money? By reading more into the story you discover this is really just another "Redistribution of Wealth" ploy. When are they going to learn that those who earn wealth have deeper respect, a better understanding about their financial status than those who are just given wealth. This formula, in time, will only make the non-archivers that much poorer. The idea is to give a hand up, not give a hand out. This Redistribution of Wealth is nothing more than a hand out. So much Liberal pollyanna BS coming out of their mouths I am surprise they put food in that orifice.

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=d5c3c93f-802a-23ad-4f29-fe59494b48a6&Issue_id=

morning peeps.

Nice necklace Hillary was wearing this morning.

RR,

For what it's worth, I can raise my hand. It's no big deal. Just a commitment I made a long time ago.

Oh swell. The CPI is way up. The PPI is way, way up. And Greenspan said there's a good chance for recession. Stagflation here we come!

Here's Jeanne Moos' take on the dem's debate:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/offbeat/2007/12/14/moos.ia.democratic.debate.chuckles.cnn?iref=videosearch

The headline for the tweety show
is Hillarys Fear Factor...

To use a psychological term, this whole matter is a form of political coprophilia. The American voters are sick of it. Look up the definition, it's a repulsive fetish. Anyone who engages in it, a candidate, their surrogate, a party, or the press, will be soundly rejected for indulging in it. I suggest that all, including reporters and political analysts, drop it fast. It stinks to high heaven.

This is interesting in that it is almost exactly a year old. It has taken the media in general and Matthews specific to finally attach "ruthless" to Hillary's name and the hideous attack she was going to make against Obama. I guess if you say something often enough and long enough, eventually it will actually make it into a "news" story.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200612190010

Obama & drugs: The dummies in the Republican base don't get it but Democrats and independents do; Obama is just being HONEST, unlike those hypocrites in the Republican field who, collectively, probably have enough skeletons in their closets to start their own graveyard.

Also, in 2000 Bush did not "almost" lose the race. He did lost, but the Supreme Court stole it back for him.

Drugs & baseball:

Next to the Hall of Fame the should put up a new building to commemorate all those stars who used performance enhancing drugs.

Call it the Hall of Asterisk.

Robby 10001

Great way to get in one of those words you can't say in polite company into the discussion. So much classier than the "fecal matter" that sometimes appears around here. :-)

Does Obama have "weaknesses" the Republicans could exploit?

It doesn't matter who the Dem noninee is or how good or bad their background is. The Republicans will INVENT smear charges just like they did with the "swiftboat veterans for truth."

All this handwringing about who is "electable" is silly.

The Republican slime machine could keep Jesus from getting elected...
* He's a Jew
* He's unemployed
* He wanders in the desert and hears voices
* He hangs around with a bunch of attractive young men who live together.
* No military service
* He's trying to overthrow the government
* He has no respect for established religion

Who is this jesus you speak of, and what's he running for?

Nash,

Great idea for the Hall of Asterisk. Now some architect/engineer will have to design the building so that when it's about 35 years old, the top floors can be expanded to reflect an over-sized head.

Wyoming Democratic Chair, Obama Delegate Savages Hillary Clinton
By: Jane Hamsher Friday December 14, 2007 8:20 am

this is beginning to look like an organized effort by Obama and frothing maniacs like Matthews will load it in a tape loopp

"We will also be the target of the locker room jokes that rightfully belong to Bill Clinton. "wy chair

I certainly hope the Obama campaign does the right thing and that there is a resignation and an apology coming

KGC....
who knew Obama knew how to play politics so well......

Nash.... clap! clap!......
yup.... the Dems could nominate a piece of moss and the Repugs would say....
"look at the fatso"..... " which side of the tracks is that stone rolling to".....

the difference this time around is that the American electorate seems to have caught on and have had enough.....

nash,
Do you find it strange that the only Boston player named in steroid-gate is Manny Alexander. Oh George Mitchell sits on the board of the Red Sox. Never mind...

That whole firedoglake article and the commentaries are wonderful. Apparently the people who actually like Hillary aren't quite as stupid as MSNBC et al thinks we are

http://firedoglake.com/

Sorry to hear ya have the flu, Corey. I'm not an MD, but I slept at a....nevah mind.

ALL youthful Indiscretions BEFORE age 35 for EVERYONE should be ignored, IMHO.

tt

Good to see our chuckly Craig back.

*still chuckling*

tt

mornin' (barely) all.

I was listening with one ear - couldn't stand to listen with both - to the debate coverage last night on MSNBC. Is the network's policy now to defeat Hillary?

OK, sturg - cute Firesign Theatre gag. Where did he go? Disappear with New Science High?

Oh, I could raise my hand, but I'd be lying.

Bowman, I agree with you about Shaheen being right - Romney has already criticized Obama for telling kids that it was dumb to do what he did in his teens. I don't give a crap about whether he used drugs in HS, college, law school or sunday school and whether he did it last week. He's no doper, and He won't be showing up at state functions stoned. Bushie got a pass on the issue, and so should Obama - and any suggestion to the contrary should be met with a reference to Bush's dishonest approach to the issue. Please, give me a break.

Fry, we are the world's largest contributor to GH gasses. We should pay more than any other country to clean them up. On the other hand, I can't see the UN imposing such a tax - it doesn't have the authority to do that - or collecting and administering it.

I hate to say it, but Matthews is right. Hillary is LOSING in Iowa and her campaign is in panic mode. Thus, the dirty tricks. No Democrat really LIKES Hillary, they just accepted her as inevitable because they knew, with Bill's political instincts guiding her, she'd be formidable against the Republcian slime machine.

Hillary's reminds me of Frodo in the "Lord of the Rings." She is the "ringbearer." But the ring of power can corrupt the soul. In her quest to defeat the Republican slime machine, she has turned her staff into a slime machine.

good one nash!

dnd: You forgot Roger Clemens who used to be Red Sox.

Never did see the Democratic debate. Did watch 3:00 am Hardball rerun -- first time in 6-8 months.

Had some woman on labeled as "social commentator." WTF? Couldn't any of us appear as a talking head with same label?

Was Dems' debate actually that boring? Or might they have discussed policy, and thus Mr. Matthews could not retain interest?

Last, no one is imagining; he does slam H Clinton right and left. Although this was not a good week for her.

(They ran Clinton ad with her mom; Matthews admitted it's a good ad.)

Renee: enjoy that beautiful snow. We have sunshine first time in days. Heading for 50s, allegedly.

Craig: No one likes Hillary's "cackle." You should get yourself hired by her campaign as a "chuckle consultant."

"One ring to rule them all,
One ring to find them,
One ring to bring them all,
and in darkness bind them."
-HRC, ringwraith

Nash

"No Democrat really LIKES Hillary,"

Speak for yourself. I liked her before Bill was elected. I liked her while she was first lady. I still like her. Just because she is now being savaged by the Clinton haters doesn't make me like her less.

As far as I can see all the people slamming her are using the Republican talking points rather than their brains.

Maybe this is the Obama/Edwards strategy to destroy the front runner .... oh couldn't be, no man would be that devious or ruthless. It takes someone in high heels to be that bitchy.

nash...loved your Jesus' electability thoughts...and Brian...still laughing at "Who is this jesus you speak of, and what's he running for?"

Alan Colmes is a man of integrity and discerning thought...he supports Edwards for President! ;)) (Brian...take note!)

Ed...I'm impressed...no drugs? ever? of any kind? (Other than alcohol, which is also a drug....) Can't raise my hand, but probably fairly close...did a little dope, but was lucky enough to be talked out of trying acid and other stuff by good friends who'd tried it and decided it wasn't their smartest move (the ones who lived full-time in the commune I frequented on weekends in the '70s). Oh...and speed once...but I didn't know it was speed...just knew a friend in the dorm said it would help me stay awake to study for exams. It did...I didn't sleep for three days...and my brother nearly killed me for being so stupid as to take something with no clue what it was...I was far too trusting.

No M's on the steroid list! No surprise! No wonder we have trouble competing! But we have good guys and good role models out here in the beautiful PNW!

Nash,

Roger Clemens, the traitorous scumbag piece of steaming sh@#$ may have started his steroid use in his last year with the Red Sox, but his numbers were middling at best which is why Dan Duquette told him he sucked, was washed up and sent him on his way.

His inflated statistics came after he left the Red Sox. Now I don't doubt that there were Sox players that were juicers, most notably NOMAR, but when you use juicer in a sentence with the Traitor, you should note that he was a Blue Jay and Yankee when he saw his biggest gains.

Catching up on my TiVo'd Imus...Craig's gonna' be on next Tuesday. Yippee!!! Just one more cow....

Jamie: enough. Some people just don't like other people, and GOP talking points does not enter into it. I personally think H Clinton has a LOT of admirable qualities, and appears to be an outstanding mother, and I would probably find her an empathetic and supportive friend, but that does not mean I want to support her as president.

Will agree on one point, though, a small portion of my reluctance is based on the right wing's visceral hatred of all things Clinton. Because it is going to poison much of anything her administration tries to do.

But more is based on her arrogance.

Hardball ran clip of moderator asking her what she'd learned from healthcare debacle.

Her response: she would communicate [what she had come up with] more and better next time out.

Too Bushlike for me -- "if people don't like my message, it's because they do not understand it."

Question actually seemed aimed at the secrecy and limited input of the policy-making process, and this is a big problem with Hillary for me. The faith in technocrats and meritocracy, and a sense their concocted plans would be the best.

Top down government.

What's the one more cow deal?

Craig,

One thing you should be pointing out about this Obama drug issue is that it offers tangible proof as to why politicians are better off being vague or disingenuous instead of completely forthright and honest.

If Obama didn't bring up the issue in his book, he would have be in a far better position to answer the standard denials or use the youthful indiscretion excuse. Now, it will just get picked at like a big scab for as long as he is in the race.

I think that it shows the strength of Obama's character that he was able to talk about it freely and use himself as an example of what you are capable of if you clean up your life.

You used Pres. Bush in 2000 as a contrast. He did nothing but dodge the issue for as long as possible, which helped him win, but it shed a glaring spotlight into the evasiveness and secrecy that has been a hallmark of his time in office.

So do we now decide on our candidate by figuring out who the Republicans hate the least? Go Joe Lieberman!

dog...Craig watches Imus. He got hooked on watching the cattle auctions that sometimes follow Imus' program...kept waiting for just 'one more cow'. Imus has picked the line up, with full credit to Craig...he loves it.

Naive here, but I don't see the Obama drug confessional as that big a deal. And I find his honesty refreshing.

It puts those who pick a bone into scolds -- Romney sounded like an idiot, opining Obama should not talk about drug use with schoolkids. (Whereas message seemed to be, you can improve your life.)

...and by the way, this whole "cackle" thing is absolute sexist crap. Explain it all day long and it's still a giant OINK.

Patsi...I don't, and I don't really believe anyone else on this list chooses their candidate according to any dictate other than their own instincts. I certainly don't think anyone here - well, fry, but that's a given - chooses their candidate based on Republican likes and dislikes. Further, I think all this arguing over Hillary is getting a bit silly. Some of us like her, some of us have reservations...but most of us will still vote for her if she's the Dem nominee.

Patsi,
"..and by the way, this whole "cackle" thing is absolute sexist crap. Explain it all day long and it's still a giant OINK."

Are you saying Stephanie Miller's a sexist pig? She plays the cackle all the time.

Oops...I lied when I said no M's had been ID'd in the steroid sting. No marquee players, but a dozen former Mariners were identified. Mea culpa. But I'm still glad none of my heroes were named....

I'm not sure how much of Crawford's words to take seriously since he annointed Hillary the presumptive nominee, months ago. Given his line of reasoning, then Hillary should assure the base that there will be no bimbo eruptions from Bill. This Obama drug story has no legs and is being put out there by Democratic operatives which is hilarious when you consider the furor over Bill's drug use and the outraged reactions of those same Dems who downplayed Bill's youthful experimentation. It would be one thing if it was discovered, but OBama has spoken and written about this subject many times. Americans don't mind if you make mistakes, they only seem to mind when you lie about them. Rather than tearing him down for his honesty, perhaps we should celebrate that someone is attempting to bring forthrightness back to the process.

Not being a supporter of Obama, let me stand up for him and for sense here.

He's a bad role model for discussing his drug usage, and he's bad for not bringing it up and having it bite him in the rear down the road....so, what are we saying here? We have to look for perfect people? People who've never done anything "wrong"?

:) @ harbor

Frankly I think we'd all be a lot better off today if Bush would kick back have a very tall scotch and a very long line of coke!

What Belle and Thomas said!

Is that you, Bayou Belle? From a few months back?

Dog

I don't mind anyone else favoring another Democratic candidate. That's what makes the party so great , the willingness to listen to all ideas from all comers.

What was making me angry was the whole savage piling on by Matthews, Scarborough, and virtually every second story on the MSNBC excuse for news. There was a complete unwillingness to even consider the possibility that it wasn't some nefarious plot on the part of Hillary, complete with Wicked Witch of the East and her many minions seeking to destroy the young noble contender.

Jamie,
Take the pledge. Become MSNBC-free. You'll be glad you did.

Jamie: Yes, I said "ALL Dems don't reaaly LIKE Hillary," but I'd like to point out that I frequently make OUTRAGEOUS statements just to cause trouble.

Patsi: Hillary's laugh would only work in a performance of "McBeth." I can she her, Nancy Pelosi, and Diane Feinstein stirring a cauldron...

"Boil, boil toil and trouble,
fire burn and cauldron bubble."

I actually like Hillary. The fact that she didn't shoot Bill years ago says a great deal about her character and good judgement. (He's a louse but he's a useful louse.)

Jamie: that's excellent advice from dnd. You owe it to yourself to follow it.

You're a very resourceful person and have plenty of better uses for your time. Even silence.

Besides which, virtually no one else watches MSNBC either (and there are boatloads of people who used to watch, like my family, but switched it off a year or two ago once its bias became apparent).

No need to fume about MSNBC unfairness, because great majorities are blithely unaware of it.

AND voters have serious buyers' remorse and most are going to be much more thoughtful this time out.

dnd: I cannot live without MSNBC.

Have you ever tried watching CNN? Wolf Blitzer could put a classroom full of hyper-active 5th graders to sleep.

And Fox News taps into my "inner Nazi." Ten minutes of listening to all those well-groomed attractive young airheads and I start thinking, "You know, some of what they are saying is right."

dnd:

CNN Headline News in the AM is OK, but I often find Robin Meade to be distracting, depending on what she's wearing. Usually it's fairly concealing but a couple of days ago she had on a skin-tight leopard print dress. Grrrrr.

I keep thinking of that line from Seinfeld, "They're real, and they're spectacular."

I absolutely love politics. MSNBC is the only network that really devotes time to it which is why they upset me when it becomes so horrendously biased. If the programming were as even handed as Craig is most of the time, it would be a great resource.

For real news I watch BBC America and C-Span or listen to NPR.

Exactly nash, MSNBC is the lesser of three evils. And while Tweety can be a real jerk sometimes he does amuse me.

Say what you will about MSNBC but they have not reined in Keith Olbermann as he has gone after the Bushies with some really powerful rhetoric. He's become a youtube star.

Matthews is coming around, too. He's FINALLY fed up with the Republican BS: the evangelicals, the lying, the war, etc.

for Craig...and all pirates everywhere...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071214/ap_on_sc/caribbean_captain_kidd_wreck

College students interested in politics: (A) watch Stewart & Colbert; and (b) watch clips of Olbermann on youtube.

Just to have fun. All the talk from Huckabee about "submission" reminded me of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7Y0I91rubg

Obama takes the lead in NH.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20071214/poll-2008-new-hampshire/

nash,
MSNBC has become Fox News for lefties. KO and BillO are two sides of the same coin. I might watch if they put on a non-entertainer like Schuster.

Blitzer isn't a ball of fire, but the correspondents are great. And I love it when Cafferty gets a bur in his saddle.

I'm surprised that MSNBC hasn't tried their own version of "Crossfire" with Scarborough and Oberman, though Scarborough would be over-matched. As much as I don't care for KO, he is brilliant and Joe is a little slow. But they both pander in bombast. And it's clear that MSNBC wants ratings from food fights.

As 9/11 mentioned last night, BBC is a good source for reasonably unbiased coverage.

Paul Krugman on why the economy is about to fall apart, big time....
http://www.trueblueliberal.com/2007/12/14/after-the-moneys-gone/

Yeah, definitely watch C-Span; it's quite interesting.

Way better than MSNBC's poliporn, and occasionally you hear a congresscritter you've never heard of making sense about something. Restores some faith in the system.

AEI election roundup Thursday with Norm Ornstein, James Glassman, Michael Barone -- nobody was even trying to spin it or looking for the silver lining in Gallup and other poll results they were presenting.

They were upfront about Congress's low approval ratings being aimed primarily at Republicans, and that 54% of those polled preferred Dems on virtually every issue.

Maybe they were aiming to attract a few more GOP retirees to their ranks?

nash,
"Matthews is coming around, too. He's FINALLY fed up with the Republican BS: the evangelicals, the lying, the war, etc. "

Tweety follows the polls and adapts his bombast to what ever will bring in the biggest ratings.

Jamie: Excellent youtube clip!

This just in: Ed Rollins joins the Huckabee campaign.

dog,
"poliporn" LOL! I love that!

Speaking of submission, Huckabee now has a new theme song....Tammy Wynette singing, "Stand by your man."

Will somebody please kill me? This has been a horrible day!

Huffington Post has an article on the bill to eliminate water boarding and orders to follow the Army Field Manual

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/13/military-leaders-ignore-_n_76656.html

I figure anything adopted in 1934 , signed by Douglas MacArthur, and that allowed us to be the lead in the Nuremburg Trials is probably good enough even if King George would rather pull the arms off people the way he used to pull wings off flies

http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/rules_warfare-1934.pdf

dnd: Cafferty should have the show and he should bring on Blitzer 5 minutes an hour, instead of the reverse.

Lou Dobbs can be good too, even if he gets a bit hysterical over illegal immigration. Dobbs is no fan of the Bushies and has gone almost as far as Olbermann in the harshness of his criticism. I love it when he starts ranting about trade policy and US corporations outsourcing jobs. You expect him to start quoting Karl Marx at any moment.

nash,
Thanks for the link to the Krugman article. As I posted earlier, I think stagflation is a big concern with the recent CPI, PPI and Greenspan warning about recession.

If the Fed keeps dropping interest rates, that could fuel inflationary pressures. Injecting liquidity would stave off the interest rate drops, but as Krugman pointed out, that may be tough to do now.

Jamie: re: waterboarding

In the Republican world view, it doesn't matter if torture "works" (produces useful intelligence).

They see torture as a form of "revenge" against people they hate.

"In the Republican world view, it doesn't matter if torture "works" (produces useful intelligence).

They see torture as a form of "revenge" against people they hate. "

Except for McCain...

HW,

Thanks, but it was no big deal. First, my parents tricked me into it. They were separated, and didn't agree on much, except my sainthood. I didn't want to let either of them down, ever. Then as I got older, I decided I wanted to be able to tell my kids honestly, that I never used them.

Now beer, that's a different story. It was good enough for Grandpa and my father, so it's good enough for me.

Political Cartoon: God gets involved in the Presidential primaries.
http://www.uclick.com/client/nyt/po/

dnd,

My guess is that McCain has probably read the manual since he actually served, unlike the President and his advisors.

nash...Great cartoon! Or is it an editorial!?!

Ed...Still impressed. My mom would have enjoyed having a saintly daughter, too, but I was incapable of providing her with one. My sister did a bit better job at that....

BBL...got stuff to do....

nash,
Interesting piece in the NYT on the MLB roid scandle:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2007/12/13/sports/20071213_MITCHELL_FEATURE.html?hp

Brian: "Frankly I think we'd all be a lot better off today if Bush would kick back have a very tall scotch"

For once we are in absolute agreement.....unless, of course, Bush never really stopped in the first place....

Jamie...... ROTFLMAO!

Nash..... Dobbs can't quote anyone lately..... too drunk....
and I see from you cartoon that God agrees with me...... too many candidates.....

Rollins....... God..... please, please let Huckabee be the candidee.....

The dem party chair in WY thinks Clinton hurts the party in the Rocky Mt. west.

http://origin.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_7716742

ps. He supports Obama...

Oh Patsi of course he's stopped, he's the poster boy for dry drunks!

nash: will read Krugman article when I get back.

Here's LATimes op ed article on possible economic depression coming -- don't want to pile on with bad news, but this sounded feasible to me.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/sunday/commentary/la-op-fraser9dec09,0,3815304.story?track=mostviewed-storylevel

The neo con economic chickens just coming home to roost. If you haven't read it, get Naomi Klein's "The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism"

http://www.amazon.com/Shock-Doctrine-Rise-Disaster-Capitalism/dp/0805079831

All right, what the hell's going on here?

Corey, take Nyquil flu and go to sleep. Tomorrow will suck too, but Sunday will be better.

nash, nash, nash, you know that an Obama lead of 1% in a poll with a 5% MOE is not a lead. dnd???

belle, when Craig said HRC was the presumptive nominee, he was right. It's only been the last 2 weeks that presumption has been challenged by IA and NH, and now SC poll results. Craig was trained as a lawyer and knows that there are 2 kinds of presumptions - rebuttable and irrebuttable. His HRC statement is a rebuttable presumption - certain facts can challenge the presumption and if sufficient, negate it. On the other hand, an irrebuttable presumption remains solid no matter what facts are presented to try and rebut it - GWB is a liar is a good example.

MuKasey one-ups Lewis Carroll in his rebuff of Congress' request for details of the CIA torture tapes destruction - claiming that providing those details to Congrss would make it look like the Justice Dept was subject to political pressure. Oh, my, I think I've got the vapors.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/14/AR2007121401269.html?hpid=topnews

Here's E.J.Dionne singing my tune.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/13/AR2007121301457.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

harborwoman I too am a no dope nor drink person. But I do do something else.

Corey knows and......

tt

nash, we're in agreement.

"I love it when he starts ranting about trade policy and US corporations outsourcing jobs. You expect him to start quoting Karl Marx at any moment." *L*

tt

The one day you can be sure everyone will be on time is pay day. Of course they will try to leave early. The true American worker, be late, leave early.

Jamie
"What was making me angry was the whole savage piling on by Matthews, Scarborough, and virtually every second story on the MSNBC excuse for news."

Hey here is some advise. DON'T WATCH IT! Since I found Imus on RFD my morning life is much happier. Plus his interviews are so much better than MoJo's. Imus actually lets the guest talk.

Fry,

What kind of business do you own?

"Murder - suicide"

Brilliant, Craig!

*L*

tt

Fry,
"Plus his interviews are so much better than MoJo's. Imus actually lets the guest talk."

No kidding. Not even in the same league. And as you say, Imus lets the guest talk.

MoJo is NoMo.

EdVB

That's an amazing story. It wouldn't have occured to me at the time to not smoke pot so I wouldn't have to lie to any potential children. About five years ago I proposed an article for a magazine with a "hip" mom section on what pot smokers tell their kids. It ranged from a don't ask don't tell policy, to sharing pot with the kids. I think I'm in the lie to your kids school. It is against the law and it puts too much of a burden on the child not to slip up.

Renee, Bear, and other Sox fans,

I feel so sorry for you guys today. Renee in particular, who lives and dies with the Sox. Here's a 300+ page report put together by one of your team's own directors over a two year period, and the whole report can be summarized in a six word indictment of your team.

"RED SOX TOO COMPLACENT TO CHEAT"

They're lucky they won the World Series this year. Otherwise, I don't know how those guys could look themselves in the mirror.

Team owner, John Henry is furious. He's been working on the design for their World Series rings, but was quoted today as saying, "If the players don't care, why should I? With all the money they saved, not buying steroids, let them go to our stadium's bubble gum machines and keep putting in coins until they get their own damn rings."

"I'm sure if the previous ownership knew of Roger Clemens' commitment to doing whatever it takes to fight Father Time, he would still be on our roster, and I'd have the pleasure of paying millions to a man, who can put his personal success above principle for half a year. We probably wouldn't have won the World Series, but at least I'd know I was paying a man who was willing to cheat."

Anyway, good luck to the Sox, and congratulations.

Bear,

Information business. Business, personal, foreign, domestic.

Hardball last night; Clinton pollster Mark Penn's terrible segment

Meant to ask you guys if anyone wants to start a "Mark Penn Gone" watch? Or at least muzzled.

He was absolutely useless last night on Hardball, paired with Joe Trippi and futilely trying to rebut Obama's campaign strategist.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/12/how-awful-is-ma.html

Tiptoe...

Of course, you didn't do dope! At 104, your late teen years took you into the roaring 20's. Surprised there was no tippling, but...I'm intrigued by the 'something else' you do.... Do tell.

Well, hate to leave, but gotta leave. Everyone have a good weekend, and catch you on the flip flop.

EdVB,

"It ranged from a don't ask don't tell policy, to sharing pot with the kids"

Yes that last part is so true, and it is on the same order of parents allowing their under age children to have a party where alcohol will be consumed as long as the kids turn over their car keys. God adults are so "F"ing stupid. The keys they gave you are a spare set, or to another car. Then the kids tell the adult host they are stepping outside to get some air, only to learn later that the drunk teenagers drove off and either killed themselves or killed someone else.

Craig and I do it. We're still heretics.

*puff*

tt

harborwoman, if I drank, I'd probably be a raving alcoholic given the way life has always gone.

tt

Craig is right about RFDTV you want to switch the channel, but there is always another heifer, cow, bull to watch. They all look the same to me, but the prices people are willing to bid are all over the map. I think the best deal are on the pregnant females as you get 2 , sometimes 3, for the price of one. And somewhere down the line you are going to end up with a lot of steak and/or veal. I like veal I just don't like thinking how it got to my plate.

I still think that the donkey/mule training show is the best post Imus show on RFDTV...I can't help but think it's a dig at Imus...lol

Might have to get a satellite dish with RFD for the new year.

Ahhhh, tt...I thought that might be it...you social pariah, you.... Could be tough to do at 104, but I managed to quit when I got pregnant...marvelous motivator!...and I know better than to EVER start again!

Great choice of gift for yourself, dog! I didn't wait...made sure I had a dish in place before Dec. 3....

dog,
"Meant to ask you guys if anyone wants to start a "Mark Penn Gone" watch? Or at least muzzled."

For those of us who don't support Hillary, I hope he stays. If they replace him with Paul Begala, the rest of the dem candidates can probably fold up their tents and go home.

I don't know why it's just baseball that's under fire. Way back in the early '90s, when my son's high school sent him to a national HS football camp, he came home dispirited. Turned out that a LOT of the college and pro players he met were doing steroids. He told me it made him realize that at a certain level, without them he probably wouldn't be competitive. (he was an offensive lineman)

Patsi,
Better to be dispirited than to wind up like Lyle Alzado.

Renee,
W.r.t. your comment on Craig's tie this morning. While the bolo tie is the official tie (tm) of Crawfordslist, specifically the Colorado Bob Scorpion bolo tie, I'm thinking if we can find a tie with cows, perhaps just one more cow, that could be the unofficial tie.

kgc,

I agree that lying to the kids is good alternative. I think my ex thought the kids would think she was cool, when she 'fessed up on pot-smoking, but that's not how it turned out.

Lying to them is certainly a more responsible choice than the sharing of drugs that both you and Fry cited. My kids haven't always made the right choices, but they've at least known what the right choice was.

dnd,

"Better to be dispirited than to wind up like Lyle Alzado."

Amen to that!

CNN's Richard Quest interviewed Ms Bush. She said they planned to retire to Dallas. Huh? You mean the Crawford ranch wasn't really W's passion like Reagan's ranch was in Santa Barbara? Shoot. I just don't know what to think anymore...

just tuned in to Hardball...right, it sounds just like Rovian politics, and yes, we are sick of it.
And all I can think of is what many of you folks think...if the Dems attack Obama over young-age drug use, you KNOW the repuggs will conjure-up all kinds of junkies on the South Side of Chicago to say Obama was the biggest pusher south of 43rd Street.

Mc Cain? can WIN? Thompson still viable? What's that guy ON?

"Better to be dispirited than to wind up like Lyle Alzado. "

That was his point.

Reiterating a question from the other day:

do any of you recall such a shallow presidential candidate field as the GOP for 2008? On either side?

Have just never seen such an odd selection of candidates. Residual affection for McCain, but he made his bed sucking up to Bush and lost a lot of independents.

Both parties have put up fragile nominees in the past, but usually there was somebody good who got winnowed out too soon.

But these guys!

Just like "one more cow" I stayed too long on MSNBC after Craig signed off. Can anyone tell me how Tucker C can draw the conclusion that it's a racial attack when Shaheen says the Republicans might ask if Barack ever gave, or sold, drugs to someone else?

The suggestion may well be over the top, but I was not aware that all pushers were people of color.

dog,

Wasn't it you who posted something last week about the National Rodeo being held in Vegas? You have a friend who is participating in the show? If so who was that cowboy? I sure hope it wasn't the guy who flew over the top of his horse's head and slammed into the steel fence.

Craig,

Good appearance. Thanks for trying to interject a little balance in the negative barrage against Hillary. It's nice to know criticism can be done without sounding like a repetitious blowhard.

Patsi,
""Better to be dispirited than to wind up like Lyle Alzado. "

That was his point."

It's clear you did a good job raising your son.

Fry: Rodeo guy is Sr. Horsedooty's daughter's boyfriend.

Sr Dooty: how fares the BF in the rodeo?

"Ford was known to be a fairly heavy drinker but gave up all alcohol when it became a problem for Betty."

Uh-Uh. Wrong.

Ford drank bourbon and branch water pretty-much every day.
Betty Ford never pressured him to quit, nor did he even consider stopping--he wasn't the one with the problem.
I can't document this, suffice it to know I read this years ago , many years ago.

Betty Ford is a saint. Her Betty Ford Center really called attention to alcohol abuse, and made it easier for high-profile people to get help.
Some celebrities can't go to an average AA meeting and share and recover ...some can...but people like Britney (not accusing her of anything) ...Britney Spears can't even go to a gas station at 3:00 A.M. without 15 papparazzi surrounding her.
Celebrities have no anonymity, but maybe they can share and recover amongst their peers.

"t's clear you did a good job raising your son."

Thanks, dnd....he didn't need the football scholarship anyway as it turned out. Vanderbilt School of Engineering gave him an academic scholarship, he went on the be a NASA Fellow, got his PhD in Mechanical Engineering and now works in Wash DC. I'm very proud of him. Very proud of my daughter too....she spent 10 years in A&R at Capitol Records working primarily with Garth Brooks...resigned to start a family and now with a toddler is starting a handmade kid's clothing company.

And I was one of those feminazi single mothers that are ruining America, by Gawd...ha.

The suggestion may well be over the top, but I was not aware that all pushers were people of color.

Well of course they are not, but when you find out they are, are you surprised? Iif you know anyone who works narcotics, law enforcement, ask them who controls the drug trade in your area, and I'll bet you 99% of the time it will be those who come from south of the boarder. The importation, the major distribution points for cocaine, meth, marijuana, and some heroin, are all controlled by Mexican, & South American crime cartels. The major heroin is still controlled by the Chinese in SE Asia. The days of Nicky Barnes, Barry Seal are long over.

EdVB...Damned if I didn't get caught up in "One More Cow."
Only it was steers .
What the hell is that? A video auction?
The same auctioneer ( I think) was selling ...then the TV shot was on a snow-covered area...they kept mentioning different cities ... odd as hell.
But as a kid I developed a fascination with farm tractors and the old tractor show on RFD-TV is what blows my mind!

Thanks Fry,

but Tucker tried to say this was racial attack against Barack Obama. Other than knowing he has mixed ethnicity, I'm not sure if his ancestors hail from any of the locations you've mentioned.

classic GOP scare ads; first is Reagan's bear in the woods

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHO4M_Tar7A&feature=related

One commenter: well? Was there a bear?

and then Bush-Cheney's 2004 wolves in the woods, which strikes many as satire at this point. (They'd take their chance on the wolves.)

"And wolves aren't even dangerous. You're much more likely to be killed by bees, but the Bush Administration
wouldn't know that because it would involve research "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU4t9O_yFsY&feature=related

And then a satire of wolves ad used by Bush-Cheney 2004: John Kerry wants to let wolves into YOUR house.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjgOKx-Qq1I&feature=related