Bhutto Primary Fallout

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The assassination of former Pakistan Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto is a horrible tragedy entitling her family and supporters to the many heartfelt condolences being offered to them by the civilized world. But the hard truth is that the effects of this event on the presidential race must be weighed.

This dramatic moment became a unique opportunity to evaluate how the hopefuls initially handled what can be seen as an audition for commander-in-chief just days away from the campaign’s first voting tests.

Democrats Hillary Rodham Clinton and John Edwards effectively devoted their first on-air comments to describe personal relationships they had developed with Bhutto, demonstrating a degree of experience in foreign affairs that might now return as a major voting factor.

Republican John McCain also got a chance to display his international credentials, but undercut his well-earned strength in this arena by nervously wandering around the stage where he delivered his remarks on Thursday.

Republican Rudy Giuliani again took one step too far in trying to link a major news story to Sept. 11, 2001 – another obvious attempt to raise the memories of his work as New York mayor after the terrorist bombings. Republican Mitt Romney rambled through a statement that hardly made sense, blaming the assassination on "global, radical, violent jihadism" while also saying no one knows who did it.

Democrats Joe Biden and Bill Richardson jumped too quickly into calling for specific actions that came across as a bit hot-headed for a president’s first reaction to such things. Democrat Barack Obama haltingly read a prepared statement that sounded like boilerplate for a vice president attending the funeral of someone he barely knows.

 

    Comments

  1. Good piece, Craig....can't believe you are able to write or think after what you went through yesterday!

    I don't understand Scarborough this morning harping away that Rudy is a "winner" in this because of security. Giuliani is no world stage player. I think he's a loose cannon.

    Posted by: Patsi | December 28, 2007 6:56 AM

  2. the view of one loser about another is not all that relevant......

    Posted by: sturgeone | December 28, 2007 7:14 AM

  3. Trinity's 15 lateral miracle play to win the game:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbblLniZbdk

    Posted by: sturgeone | December 28, 2007 7:16 AM

  4. Obama reminds me of the kid in class giving a report based on a couple of paragraphs from an encyclopedia. It's exactly what I expect of him; it's sooo...G W Bush-ish.

    Craig - Glad you're doing OK. Will your new bionic ankle give you special powers or will it only mean that you have to carry a note from the doc to get past metal detectors? Either way, you have a lot of material for Imus now. Feel better soon & "hi" right back to your family. Take care.

    Posted by: blueINdallas | December 28, 2007 7:59 AM

  5. Ha, Blue -- "bionic ankle," i like that (they did put titanium in there). Leg still numb from surgery, so it's feeling great for now. Thanks again to everyone for your concern and kind words.

    Posted by: Craig Crawford Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 8:16 AM

  6. Craig,
    Lotsa new hardware in the ankle? Pretty soon you're gonna be on a first name basis with the TSA screeners.
    Good luck with the rehab.

    Posted by: dnd | December 28, 2007 8:48 AM

  7. This horrendous assassination of this leader, Benazir Bhutto trying to bring an element of democracy to Pakistan is a reminder of how small the world is and how fragile security is as well. We take nothing away from her martyrdom to express our belief that we need a strong knowledgable president who has already left an enlightened mark on world affairs. Only one candidate fills the bill.

    Posted by: Thelma Goldstein | December 28, 2007 9:06 AM

  8. Craig.... glad to hear you came through the surgery with flying colors.....
    you should let others pamper you for a while.... you deserve it....

    Good analysis of the candidates position on the Bhutto assassination..... although I'm not sure I'd put Biden in the loser category.....
    my own chosen candidate, Richardson, did say much too quickly that Mushy should step aside, IMO..... oh well.... he's not a very good campaigner.....

    I'm anxiously awaiting Thursday..... I just want someone to vote already.....

    ps..... Rick is going skiing today with his 80 yr old father..... yup... you read that right ..... there is a skiing god and he's looking after my father-in-law....

    Posted by: RebelliousRenee | December 28, 2007 9:23 AM

  9. The assasination of this remarkable woman only reaffirms the great threat that these radical Jihadists pose to the free world and the american people have a clear choice between a party that believes we have no business fighting against these radical elements and a party that has been consistent in it's determination to eliminate global terrorism.

    Posted by: Rob Jefferies | December 28, 2007 9:25 AM

  10. Craig,
    Better Article today then the good one yesterday. And under the effects!! Thank you for not repeating leading assumptions regarding outcomes in a foreign nation however good plug for your fav.

    It is hard to hear objective reporting in the wake of this tragic event of the assassination. Is it possible this will empower more of Pakistan to push for stabilization - which is more important then Democracy. Pakistan is of greater importance due to the Nuc's. Beyond this they are no more important "individuals" and in fact a better situation then several other places in the World.

    Posted by: Ping Pong Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 9:35 AM

  11. Are you sure this is the right time "to evaluate how the hopefuls initially handled what can be seen as an audition for commander-in-chief"?

    Unless President Bush calls one of the candidates and asks for their advice I don't see how anything a candidate has to say rises to the level of being an audition for the job.

    Posted by: JB Feucht | December 28, 2007 9:41 AM

  12. Question to Thelma
    Who in your opinion is this Candidate?
    And Why? What Behavior and history of results supports >......

    Posted by: Ping Pong Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 9:42 AM

  13. mornin' all.

    Ping, mornin'. That was my quesestion as well.

    Right, RonJeffries, that is exactly what we need - a leader who thinks we should consider every attack by nuts in other countries against anyone an attack against the US and go throughout the world looking for wired Islamists. Sorry, but that is exactly wrong.

    JB, the way the candidates react to what's going on in the world lets us know a little about how they might handle the job. After the disastrous past 7 years, wouldn't you like to have that insight on the front end rather than at the end of the fiasco that could have been averted had we only known?

    And Craig, welcome to the world of "enchnaced screening" - and that little card the docs will give you saying you have metal in your ankle - the TSA guys couldn't care less. Remeber - sit, lift your legs, stand, get patted down, go get your luggage.

    Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 9:58 AM

  14. I think Craig is correct that the tone of the Hillary and Edwards statements will help them, particularly with women. But I don't see how the personal relationships they had developed with Bhutto gives them any real experience in foreign affairs cred.
    Making friends with an ally is easy. Negotiating with an enemy is hard.

    Posted by: dnd | December 28, 2007 10:02 AM

  15. What????? Rudee is not a winner?
    Tweety will never have you on again.

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | December 28, 2007 10:02 AM

  16. Craig,
    pogo is right. The TSA guys don't want to see the note from your doctor. I always tell them where the hardware is located so they won't be surprised when the wand starts beeping.

    Posted by: dnd | December 28, 2007 10:05 AM

  17. McCain = Major Kong

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | December 28, 2007 10:15 AM

  18. Snowing again in NE Iowa. Bill Clinton suppose to be in town today, snow kept him away last Sun. Joe Biden and Bill Richardson also in town today, so will see who can make it. Hopefully one of them will. I will go to Clinton as first choice, only to try to get my grandsons pic. with a former pres. John was kind enough to take time for a pic. yesterday. I appreciate that .

    More on the Edwards visit yesterday. Large crowd, many people that I recognized as having bumper stickers and yard signs for others.

    John gave a very passionate speech, that seemed to connect with a lot of the crowd.

    A student from Africa asked a very good question on global poverty and how that affects us. John gave a good answer, compared how much education worldwide that a couple weeks in Iraq could buy.

    I look for Edwards to have a very strong causus in Iowa. I really think the message hits home with many rural Iowans.

    Posted by: iowarick | December 28, 2007 10:18 AM

  19. Craig, Welcome back to what we hope will be a full speedy recovery. Excellent column today.

    Blue

    "Obama reminds me of the kid in class giving a report based on a couple of paragraphs from an encyclopedia."

    Awhile back I caught a lot of flak for saying Obama sounds as if he swallowed his briefing book. He's brilliant, learns fast, and can spit out the "right" answer almost every time, but the wisdom and experience to develop real strategy in the face of adversity just doesn't seem to be there yet. He is definitely someone I would want to be considering in eight years, but not now.

    Posted by: Jamie | December 28, 2007 10:25 AM

  20. OH, and Craig, keep things in perspective, be thankful you have ankles.

    Posted by: iowarick | December 28, 2007 10:28 AM

  21. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/2...ycontin.html? hp

    Guiliani was a consultant for oxycontin maker Purdue Pharma.

    well this certainly explains why Rush attacked Hucksterbee --protecting his source

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | December 28, 2007 10:31 AM

  22. Article published - Dec 28, 2007
    Woolsey endorses Hillary Clinton
    Backing of 'electable' moderate by progressive seen as case of realism

    By GUY KOVNER
    THE PRESS DEMOCRAT

    Rep. Lynn Woolsey, the Petaluma Democrat best known for her strong stand against the Iraq war, on Thursday endorsed Hillary Clinton, the party's centrist frontrunner for president.

    "I'm looking at who can get us out of Iraq," Woolsey said. "That has to be somebody who is electable."

    Woolsey, who has represented the Sonoma-Marin congressional district since 1992, said that Clinton "can hit the ground running . . . she can make her vision happen."

    Four years ago Woolsey endorsed Ohio Democrat Dennis Kucinich, a fellow member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, who again is running for president.

    "This has nothing to do with Dennis," Woolsey said, when asked about her different choice for 2008.

    In a statement issued earlier in the day by the Clinton campaign, Woolsey was quoted as saying, "Hillary Clinton is the candidate with the strength and experience to bring about the change that California families need."
    http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/article/20071228/NEWS/712280353/1033/NEWS01

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | December 28, 2007 10:40 AM

  23. KGC,
    "McCain = Major Kong"

    Um, McCain was a captain. There are no ranks of "major" in the Navy. But when I visualized McCain riding that H-bomb, cowboy hat in hand, I spit coffee all over my keyboard. Thanks...

    Posted by: dnd | December 28, 2007 10:43 AM

  24. Craig, hopefully you'll have the result with your ankle that I have had with my hip - no restrictions, and 11/2 years post surgery no ill effects after a week of chasing Little Pogo around Universal and riding all the adrenaline rides over and over and over...
    And remember,sit firstwith your ankles in the air, stand with your arms outstretched, palms up, get patted down, go get your carry on baggage - EVERY TIME YOU FLY.

    dnd, thanks for the recommendation. Little Pogo is a bit beyond Louie, Louie, but I'm not so sure about his bandmates. He'll be the lead guitar and his little buddy Matt will be either rhythm or bass (I've been lobbying them to get one of their little female classmates who plays bass into the band a la Addicted to Love). I guess I'll be buying a PA before long. Anyway, he's been working on Mississippi Queen and loves to play Cat Scratch Fever and Crazy Train. (Who would have guessed - an 11 year old classic rocker). Last night he was sitting around kind of picking out Sunshine of Your Love while he was watching the Cavs beat the Mavs.

    iowarick, we expect a prompt report on the Bill rally if it goes off.

    Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 10:47 AM

  25. Craig,

    I am a Lou Dobbs and C-SPAN fan big time. I have a lot of respect for your political perspectives. However, I strongly disagree with you on Joe Biden not being strengthen by this unfortunate assassination. Why don't the news networks and newspapers give him some "air" time?

    Take a look at his resume', balanced positions, acknowledgements (when he has been wrong), overcoming personal tragedy, political experience/relationships, judgment, intellect, integrity, etc. - - and he has not gotten rich by being a politician!!!

    He is someone in the campaign now who will represent Americans well.

    I have seen all kinds of surveys asking questions but leaving out the ones the American people want asked and answered. A long time ago, a friend who once worked on Wall Street told me to remember "It's how the question is asked" that determines the answer.

    Posted by: ld | December 28, 2007 10:52 AM

  26. I have a titanium squash racket --it's very light weight.and durable. I'm sure it will make a good ankle too.

    hey dnd just for you...put down that coffee
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueuauKKjPZI

    and you know some of us will be Denver next summer
    are you putting together a good tour for us. I like margaritas and good Mexican food.

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | December 28, 2007 10:53 AM

  27. Just in case anyone wondered why you don't want to consider an ex Baptist minister hunter ex governor of Arkansas as your president, here it is.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/28/huckabee-warns-of-unusua_n_78541.html

    He couldn't rent a clue. Treating the attack against Bhutto asa a warning against the US? Mucking foron. What's he think "unusal activity of Pakistanis coming into the country" would look like, exactly?

    Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 10:54 AM

  28. pogo,
    Little pogo is a fan of the Nuge and Ozzy Osborne? Kids these days! Though Leslie West is certainly a great guitar influence.

    Posted by: dnd | December 28, 2007 10:58 AM

  29. jamie,IMHO, you are correct about Obama.

    Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 11:01 AM

  30. KGC,
    Thanks. I love that clip. Somehow Dr. Strangelove is even more appropriate with the current unrest in Pakistan.

    Posted by: dnd | December 28, 2007 11:05 AM

  31. ld,
    I think you're right about Biden. He knows Pakistan like the back of his hand. So does Richardson. Bush should send them along with a permanent special envoy to Pakistan after super Tuesday.

    Posted by: dnd | December 28, 2007 11:11 AM

  32. KCG....
    This needs to be corrected
    "Rep. Lynn Woolsey, the Petaluma Democrat best known for her strong stand against the Iraq war, on Thursday endorsed Hillary Clinton, the party's centrist frontrunner for president"

    To call Hillary Centrist is not complete and accurate, Need to call Hillary as trying to ACT and LEAD People to believe she is Centrist. So to the Author of the article nice job in adding to the snow pile

    Posted by: Ping Pong Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 11:14 AM

  33. Morning peeps,
    Sounds like you're doing well Craig, it's a good a thing!

    Posted by: Brian In NYC Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 11:20 AM

  34. Hillary may be the parties front runner (is she the front runner now?) but call what it is....pandering, misleading, socialist, flip flopping, Bill Coat Tails .... But hey this is a politician so do not expect to much and not much different then the others.
    Edwards is more trust worthy
    Obama - good point in that he is well scripted

    And the rest? Does it matter at this point

    Posted by: Ping Pong Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 11:24 AM

  35. ping

    you are so predictable

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | December 28, 2007 11:25 AM

  36. Posted by: Jamie | December 28, 2007 11:26 AM

  37. Predictable and correct!

    Posted by: Brian In NYC Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 11:26 AM

  38. Thanks KCG...
    The Truth is easy

    Posted by: Ping Pong Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 11:29 AM

  39. ping

    your version of the truth...too bad it's not universal

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | December 28, 2007 11:34 AM

  40. And it will set you free Ping! The only thing I take exception to is calling Hillary a socialist, come on ping, no one talks like that anymore, get with the century!

    Posted by: Brian In NYC Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 11:36 AM

  41. Ping thinks President Hucksterbee is acceptable

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | December 28, 2007 11:37 AM

  42. KC I didn't say he's correct all the time, just in his assessment of the top 3 Dems, well except for that Socialist crack.

    Posted by: Brian In NYC Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 11:42 AM

  43. OK - Give me a new word for someone that wants to build the government to run programs? Maybe a Federalist?

    And Sorry KGC I am not a Huckabee or a wana bee. He is also by practice the same as I call Hillary - very socialistic behavior in government programs.

    Posted by: Ping Pong Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 11:43 AM

  44. dnd, he isn't so much a fan of the Nuge,as his guitar teacher is - but for instructional purposes only. Besides, politics aside, the Nuge can play a guitar. LP likes Ozzy's songs, but he's really a huge fan of Randy Rhodes and Zakk Wylde. And he's becoming a big fan of Eddy Van Halen. He goes nuts whenever he hears a VH song on the radio and is trying to learn tapping.

    Ping, why not quit throwing the socialist label around? That's Haniity BS and just makes your otherwise thoughtful comments questionable.

    Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 11:44 AM

  45. "OK - Give me a new word for someone that wants to build the government to run programs? Maybe a Federalist?"

    Compassionate!

    Posted by: Brian In NYC Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 11:46 AM

  46. "He is also by practice the same as I call Hillary - very socialistic behavior in government programs"

    not much truthiness here

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | December 28, 2007 11:49 AM

  47. Craig, quite to the contrary regarding Obama, was not it Obama who first had the guts to call out our current foreign policy blunders---we attacked the wrong country. Wasn't it Obama who said we should be focusing our attention on northern Pakistan where the threat really exists? Just as Obama was right about Iraq, he is right about Pakistan. His position shows excellent judgment and common sense. Obama knows that America’s old foreign policy strategy of assuming that all players are rational does not apply to the Middle East and extremism. In the case of Pakistan, we must assume the actor is not rational and make decisions accordingly. Therefore, based upon Obama's factual statements, this event actually show he is capable of making the right foreign policy decisions.

    Posted by: Chery S. | December 28, 2007 11:51 AM

  48. I think Hannity copied from me !!

    Compassionate is based on the concern and desire fo the end result.

    Question is How and the methods used to obtain the desired compassonate end result.

    More Government is not the answer, guidelines yes, control and central management and ownership NO WAY.

    Posted by: Ping Pong Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 11:55 AM

  49. Obama''s Pakistan policy sounds very Bushian

    August 07, 2007 10:03 PM

    ABC News' Teddy Davis Reports: For the second presidential debate in a row, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., came under fire for an Aug. 1 speech in which he said he would go after high-value Al Qaeda targets in Pakistan if the country's president was not willing to act.

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | December 28, 2007 11:55 AM

  50. Jesus H., Ping, Clinton has been criticized roundly by Edwards for being a corporatist and by Obama for being part of the Washington establishment. Socialist? Give me a break.

    Chery S, or at least criticising the wrong ones? Hell, lots of people did that, but it doesn't mean they're ready to be president.

    Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 11:56 AM

  51. KCG Disagree ... I think Huckabee would proceed in a manner closer to the Democratic method of building a program to control and fund "Compassionate" results. He may try to think of the US Govt as a big Church... Pastors are not good business people

    Posted by: Ping Pong Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 11:57 AM

  52. Actually, Obama is as ready as any of the other candidates. To the poster that stated Obama's policy is Bush like. If Bush had acted as Obama suggested then we would have a very different result.

    Posted by: Chery S. | December 28, 2007 12:01 PM

  53. business people don't make good lawmakers

    isn't shrub supposed to be the mba president
    you must be very proud

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | December 28, 2007 12:02 PM

  54. If Bush had acted as Obama suggested then we would have a very different result.

    yeh we could have turned Pakistan into eyerack also

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | December 28, 2007 12:03 PM

  55. Socialist? Come on, Ping....that's silly to the point of laughable. Do you honestly think Hillary Clinton wants to abolish private business and have a state controlled system? If so....well, I won't say it.

    Yes I will. If that's what you think you need a brain transplant.

    Many of us would tell you that one of her drawbacks is her close ties to big business.

    Posted by: Patsi | December 28, 2007 12:03 PM

  56. KgC,

    OMG, I saw a picture of the mysterious Mz Huckleberry today on MSNBC. Looks just as one might picture in your mind's eye. Now off to the car wash to try and wash that memory out of my mind's eye. Oh one other thing she looks like a clone of Janet Reno.

    yo soy Horsedooty!

    Posted by: horsedooty | December 28, 2007 12:09 PM

  57. Unless we publicly finance federal campaigns, almost all candidates will remain close to big business. That is the real travesty of our current political system.

    Posted by: Chery S. | December 28, 2007 12:13 PM

  58. Doots
    have you seen the sons?

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | December 28, 2007 12:14 PM

  59. Dooty -- Makes me wonder if Huckster keeps her under wraps because he's embarrassed that his wife isn't a trophy-type like Freddie's. Either that or she has to keep a close and vigilant eye on the dog killer.

    Posted by: Patsi | December 28, 2007 12:14 PM

  60. ding ding ding ding we have a winner..

    "Unless we publicly finance federal campaigns, almost all candidates will remain close to big business. That is the real travesty of our current political system."

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | December 28, 2007 12:19 PM

  61. Chery S, Rob Jefferies, Thelma Goldstein, JB Feucht -- Welcome aboard (sorry if this isn't your first time and i missed you before).

    Nice to get your perspective on here. Everyone say hi to the newbies and don't get too rough at first :-)

    -- Craig

    Posted by: Craig Crawford Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 12:19 PM

  62. Hey Patsi...
    The point of the post is that Hillary is misleading and her programs are more Government Centric and controlled, Call this what you want but it is not to free enterprise and personal responsibility. Hillary continues the marketing make over which is a rub for many. At least with Edwards and Obama (Obama as long as he stays on his script) you know what you got. Hillary is no Bill in pulling the wool.
    So No I do not take Hillary as a PURE Socialist (and our system gives us some protection) but her platform certianly leans closer that direction

    Posted by: Ping Pong Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 12:20 PM

  63. Ping Pong said, "Craig, No WiFi at the rents? call me and i will bring a extra by for the sake of humanity and the vision of you crawling up stairs....."

    *L*

    Fortunately medicine has come up with bionic replacement parts. I have a bionic eye. Did y'all notice how kinda Borg-like I looked in LV? And Craig has a bionic ankle. Any other bionic parts to report? Docs really are body mechanics.

    Dr. Oz on Oprah says we can live to be 150. Can you just imagine? We could work until 125 and still have 25 years of retirement. But we'd need tune ups.

    tt

    Posted by: tiptoe Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 12:25 PM

  64. *waving*

    Hey newbies! Don't be shy. We can hear you breathing.

    tt

    Posted by: tiptoe Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 12:26 PM

  65. KgC,

    Yeah, I have seen the Dog Killer's pic. Scary too. I heard Chuck Todd (?) tell Monica Novatna that one of the Huck's caucus people say that he had as much business as Huck being the president and he also said he was not running. Nice endorsement from one of your fans.

    yo soy Horsedooty!

    Posted by: horsedooty | December 28, 2007 12:27 PM

  66. welcome to Chery S, Rob Jefferies, Thelma Goldstein, JB Feucht .......
    I was the loan Red Dot.... Anyone joining -
    How many Red Dots does it take to handle all the Blue?

    Posted by: Ping Pong Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 12:27 PM

  67. Really? Craig doing Hardball tonight? I hope Matthews appreciates ya playin' hurt.

    Posted by: blueINdallas | December 28, 2007 12:29 PM

  68. C'mon, ping, socialism is a bit more than a progressive tax code and programs the provide financial benefits for citizens without the wherewithall to purchase them themselves. While socialism, at least in the forms it has been seen in the USSR, China and other communist courties,requires big government since government owns the means of production, big government programs do not in and of themselves equate to socialism, except in the simplistic world as defined by the likes of Hannity, et al. And we really should rely on college dropouts and right wing ideologues to define our political parties and landscape, shouldn't we?

    Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 12:30 PM

  69. Under Blogroll (top left) is the map.

    Ping, you're still the only red. I'm still fed up with the whole thing and remain green & outta the loop as a passive observer for the time being.

    http://isleofran.org/clist.htm

    tt

    Posted by: tiptoe Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 12:30 PM

  70. Ping Pong - What you are describing as Socialism is actually a version of "The Commons" that dates from the founding of the nation and is the reason a couple of our states are called "commonwealths" rather than states.

    It is up to the people to decide which actions are in the interest of the common good and therefore are to be supported by all in the form of levys and taxes at the state or federal level and which are best left to the individual. At various times different things have moved back and forth i.e. education, military, welfare, police, fire, monetary policy, etc.

    This isn't pure socialism, it is a discussion as to what belongs where.

    Posted by: Jamie | December 28, 2007 12:31 PM

  71. Ping Pong, after the mortgage melt down, tainted food, poisonous toys and the Bush administration’s attempt to preempt state laws, do you not think it is time for some government control, what about the millions of unchecked containers entering our country. China is not our friend they do not really like America. I am not advocating complete government control; however, a capitalist society without any government over sight will implode. Corporate greed cannot contain itself.

    Posted by: Chery S. | December 28, 2007 12:33 PM

  72. hey id

    What is the appeal of Lou Dobbs? I don't "get" him at all.

    He is frequnetly wrong and never makes corrections.

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | December 28, 2007 12:33 PM

  73. KGC, at least Dobbs keeps the war against the middle class on the radar.

    tt

    Posted by: tiptoe Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 12:35 PM

  74. I'm sorry Ran I couldn't figure out what color would result from adding green to red and blue. I suppose we could come up with a "brown" button. :-)

    A Blue / green would require Turquois
    A Red/Green A strange shade of Orange

    If you can do it, I'm sure someone will claim it.

    Posted by: Jamie | December 28, 2007 12:36 PM

  75. Lou is just another voice sounding the alarm of what is really wrong with our government--currently broken.

    Posted by: Chery S. | December 28, 2007 12:37 PM

  76. I'm feeling a kinship with Cheryl.

    tt

    Posted by: tiptoe Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 12:38 PM

  77. Hi Newbies

    Posted by: Brian In NYC Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 12:38 PM

  78. Thanks very much for the welcome TT.

    Posted by: Chery S. | December 28, 2007 12:40 PM

  79. no disrespect Cheryl S, but in this yellow dog's mind, Lou Dobbs is a Blowhard racist pig. He needs to go back to being a business reporter on some business channel instead of taking up good air time on CNN. Most of what Lou Dobbs talks about it hysteria and I don't believe he offers any solutions other than RUN THE MEXICANS OUTTA HERE. He is a moron.

    yo soy Horsedooty!

    Posted by: horsedooty | December 28, 2007 12:47 PM

  80. Welcome, Cheryl.

    tt

    Posted by: tiptoe Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 12:52 PM

  81. Oooh, the Pakistani gov't is blaming AQ for Bhutto's death. (Doubtful, but that should make Rudy's day.)
    I suppose they'll want us to loosen up the reigns of the terror-fightin'-funds that we recently pulled up slack on.

    Welcome everybody. Speedy recovery Bionic, Bolo Pundit.


    Posted by: blueINdallas | December 28, 2007 12:52 PM

  82. Cheryl, Only one thing is perfect and that is not human. Yes some warts and bumps HOWEVER we are a great country built on Personal Responsibility, Free Enterprise, Moral Values...
    Shame on the banks AND the Borrowers that made the bad loans. They will now pay the consequence. If Predators and not full disclosure then one thing but to be ignorant or choose to ignore the future monthly payment impact is not an excuse. So the big lenders took a hit along with those that took the Short Term EASY solution. This will correct itself and does not need a big government action.

    Yes we need value based rules and laws. No we do not need more social programs as this did not build this great country but in fact is making a society weaker.

    Posted by: Ping Pong Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 12:53 PM

  83. Trivia question: Which Democratic candidate's pollster announced last summer that the campaign would use the tried and true campaign techniques of.....Ronald Reagan?

    "Now, it is blasphemy for Democrats," ____ pollster Cornell Belcher said of Reagan, "but that hope and optimism that was Ronald Reagan" allowed him to "transcend" ideological divisions within his own party and the general electorate.

    The upbeat message, ____ advisers say, won't prevent the candidate from stepping up both veiled and explicit contrasts with Clinton, who he hopes to portray as an old-hat conventional politician whose varied positions on the Iraq war reflect calculation rather than leadership.

    ROFL....I'll support him anyway if he's the candidate....but, hey....ain't we got enough Republicans paying homage to Ronnie Raygun?

    Posted by: Patsi | December 28, 2007 12:55 PM

  84. Ping,
    Patsi's comment says it all.
    "Many of us would tell you that one of her drawbacks is her close ties to big business."

    Hillary is not a socialist. She's not a capitalist. But she's a master at keeping one foot firmly planted on either side of the fence.

    Posted by: dnd | December 28, 2007 12:55 PM

  85. Posted by: tiptoe Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 12:56 PM

  86. So Hillary is not a Flip Flop, She is a Spliter? Something easier for a women to do then a man as the differnce increases...

    Posted by: Ping Pong Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 1:01 PM

  87. Duplicitous ….
    I think that is what you would call Hillary

    Posted by: Ping Pong Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 1:05 PM

  88. Ping Pong, point well taken. However, if there had been some government oversight the bad loans would not have been made in the first place. Moreover, the dollar is hit very hard when corporate America decides to put greed above good policy decisions. A look back in history shows what happens to great societies when their currency is worthless—they no longer remain great societies. We all pay when the market corrects itself. I believe in capitalism however with some restraints.

    Posted by: Chery S. | December 28, 2007 1:07 PM

  89. ping
    I guess you forgot the Shrubco made homeownership a plank in the war on terra.

    The current sorry state of the US economy is the fault of underfunded and unfunded and the incomptency of the Bush administration.

    The change in law last summer put predatory mortgage brokers out of business but Shrub refused at the time to recognize the impact.
    http://www.hud.gov/news/speeches/presremarks.cfm

    you are living in an alternate universe of gooper values.
    and playing some kind of fantasy political game where history no longer matters

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | December 28, 2007 1:14 PM

  90. ping
    give me an example of Clinton being duplicitous

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | December 28, 2007 1:18 PM

  91. Ping I think evasive is a more apt description of Hillary than duplicitous is.

    Posted by: Brian In NYC Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 1:23 PM

  92. KCG.... Sorry state of the economy? Where are you?
    Clinton on Iraq alone.... Let me count the positions

    Posted by: Ping Pong Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 1:26 PM

  93. Brian,
    Good point she has become much mre evasive to not disclose the true Hillary. Look at the lack of details and the overall generalizations.

    Posted by: Ping Pong Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 1:28 PM

  94. chameleon like, she and Bill are masters of triangulation. Some people find that worthy I respect. I just happen to not.

    Posted by: Brian In NYC Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 1:32 PM

  95. ping
    I am waiting for you to count the positions and then compare and contrast with other candidates especially the Republicans

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | December 28, 2007 1:34 PM

  96. Gee I thought people despised her for not changing her position in Eyrack.

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | December 28, 2007 1:38 PM

  97. Ping,
    You forgot her positions on torture.

    And yes Brian, evasive would be an apt description as well, given her unwillingness to answer certain questions.

    Posted by: dnd | December 28, 2007 1:40 PM

  98. Ping
    are you so selfish that just because you are doing well you do not recognize a national economy in trouble.

    The us dollar is weak and the "wealth effect" which has been driving our consumer economy is drying up.

    I guess the Republicans did not learn the lesson of 92...it's the economy stupid!

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | December 28, 2007 1:41 PM

  99. Bill Clinton changed his position on torture if her position is guilt by association then the same is true for his ambassador to the un.

    And excuse me Ping I would rather have a candidate that changed their mind then a bunch of candidates who think it is ok. The only candidate who does not is scorned by his own party.

    Posted by: Katherine Graham Cracker | December 28, 2007 1:44 PM

  100. *Is glad to see someone else taking the heat for a change*

    Ping I feel so close to you right now, LOL!

    Posted by: Brian In NYC Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 1:44 PM

  101. "Bill Clinton changed his position on torture if her position is guilt by association then the same is true for his ambassador to the un."

    Nuh-uh. This has nothing to do with Bill or Bill. It has nothing to do with the fact the Bill approved extraordinary rendition as president; something that W. loves to use so well. In an Oct 2007 interview, she condoned torture. Now she don't. If she'd explain this change of heart, I'd take her at her word.

    Posted by: dnd | December 28, 2007 1:52 PM

  102. Ping - sorry state of the economy? You bet - take a look at the economic indicators- almost all the trends are bad- wages are flat, energy and food costs are rising, the dollar's value is falling, unemployment claims are up in December - contrary to expectations, home values have fallen for what, 10 straight months?, home foreclosures are at record levels,and the VRMs haven't even adjusted yet, the housing sector is shrinking, along with employment in that sector, and corporate profitsare falling. That doesn't suggest a sorry state of the economy?

    Posted by: pogo Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 2:01 PM

  103. KCG Assumptions are dangerous. Please… Selfish? If I hit a sensitive area please excuse.

    I agree that changing the mind is OK, having multiple modified responses based on the audience is acceptable to a degree but for some reason Hillary is extreme in her pandering.

    To the Economic point you are trying to make....
    What is overall Employment now?

    Standard of living index? (Need to go check this myself but reports are very positive)

    Also American Made Products are a great bargain now to foreign markets. In our area reports of foreign tourism projections are to set record numbers – very positive for our economy.

    Posted by: Ping Pong Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 2:04 PM

  104. evasive, duplicitous, chameleon like, triangulation, generalizations, no disclosure.

    Hallmarks of politicians, no?

    tt

    Posted by: tiptoe Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 2:05 PM


  105. NEW THREAD

    Posted by: Craig Crawford Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 2:06 PM

  106. Pogo,
    Agreed to these current elements in the economy. There are corrections taking place and depending on where you start the graph...
    We did have to much of an explosion in growth and it is catching up but will correct and be stable.
    This will allow someone to use a short window and base line against this year to show how great they are next year

    Posted by: Ping Pong Author Profile Page | December 28, 2007 2:08 PM

  107. NEW THREAD!!

    Posted by: Jamie | December 28, 2007 2:35 PM

  108. Ping Pong I am surprised that you didn't recognize that Hillary Clinton was the candidate I described. Evaluation of Hillary as a potential world leader came when I read her Commencement Speech at Wellesley in 1969. She has fought her entire life for the issues that bring humanity into focus in ways that were heartwarmng and productive. Wonderful in a president ! A grade A intelligence and imagination grounded in an ongoing examination of cause and consequences, she will be careful in her choices and decisions and will have the courage to stand up for what she has believed in.
    She needs no defense and I just wish that we had more of her caliber. There would be far less ugly hype around.

    Posted by: Thelma Goldstein | December 28, 2007 9:36 PM

  109. "Craig - Glad you're doing OK. Will your new bionic ankle give you special powers or will it only mean that you have to carry a note from the doc to get past metal detectors? Either way, you have a lot of material for Imus now. Feel better soon & "hi" right back to your family. Take care.

    Posted by: blueINdallas | December 28, 2007 7:59 AM"

    Gentlemen we can rebuild him! We will make him stronger than he was... Stronger, Better, Faster. Craig Crawford will be that man ...

    Sorry nothing in politics interested me today but I liked the bionic ankle comment. Cheerio.


    Posted by: Thomas Freeman Author Profile Page | December 29, 2007 4:19 PM

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