David Corn

Thank you David for pointing out the hypocrisy of their own statements. These Christional zealots like to throw the "judeo-christian" phrases out their but they would never call this a Jewish state - so why are they so bent on calling us a Christian nation? That was a rhetorical question. They are just spinning up their base. They are fomenting a Christian revolution lead by the crazy right wing "Christians" like the Klu Klux Klan and Arian Nation folks. This is scary.

I am not a Christian (I am their nightmare - I am an athiest - and a recovering catholic). Where would I fit in to this "Christian" nation?

I think that this is part of the "real american" debate, or should I say spin cycle. We all know what religion "real americans" have. As a non practicing UU I have no doubt that I am on probation. The problem with the christian argument is that my spirituality translates directly into my membership as a citizen. It reminds me of arguements in law school when the boys argued that equal rights for women were not necessary because we were different, you know we couldn't lft 40 lb bombs all day. I had not known that that was a requirement for full citizenship. 40 lb. kids don't count. Just like being jewish or muslim, or UU doesn't count if you believe we are a christian nation. And you can see how all that christian love translates into arguements about gay marriage, prayer in schools and monuments in court houses.

If they want to use the "In GAWD we trust" on the dollar bill - check when that started? I guess we were GAWDless before then?

Per Wiki:

"In God We Trust is the official motto of the United States and the U.S. state of Florida. The motto first appeared on a United States coin in 1864, but In God We Trust did not become the official U.S. national motto until after the passage of an Act of Congress in 1956.[1] It is codified as federal law in the United States Code at 36 U.S. 302, which provides: "'In God we trust' is the national motto."

Pledge: The last change in the Pledge of Allegiance occurred on June 14 (Flag Day), 1954 when President Dwight D. Eisenhower approved adding the words "under God".

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Seems like a waste of your knowledge, skills and talent to debate such silliness with someone so woefully uninformed.

(a dirty job but someone has to do it, eh?)

These people do not believe in separation of church and state, one of the fundmental principles of our democracy. Tom DeLay, among others, was very up front about this when he was in power.

And yet, we do have one unifying religion in this country of ours -- the worship of money.

When we have the kind of greed that takes down the economies of most of the planet we need not wonder why some might not think highly of us.

Cheesus - if we ever got caught up in foreign entanglements on top of the greed thing we might look real bad indeed.

"War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength"

~ George Orwell (1903 - 1950), Book "1984"

(add greed is good, eh?)

If you want to be a true Orwellian, try this...

Greed is Philanthropy

Wow, expanded Afghan War, extended Iraq War, and now continued Warrentless Wiretaps.

Looks like Barry is continuing those pesky "failed policies" of George W. Bush!

And Barry's reason for continuing the wiretaps - "national security considerations" after seeing all of the intel that George w. Bush saw when instituting the wiretaps!

Maybe President Bush WASN'T as dumb as he looked to foaming-at-the-mouth libs after all.

Might call themselves Christians.

They aren't.

Barry?

Dang, I remember 3rd grade when I used to call people names. But you see, the thing is, I grew out of it.

One would think one would be too ashamed for name calling in a public forum, but I guess when you have no argument, namecalling is all that's left.

What's next, "your mama" jokes?

Where's the link to the pix of a rabbit with a pancake on its head?

Richard Cohen has his moments:

Former president George W. Bush and some of his White House aides are gathering in Dallas this week to plan the future George W. Bush Policy Institute. There, I guess, they will ponder grand themes and marble foyers, but I propose they begin by simply renaming the place. I suggest naming it the "George W. Bush Institute of Management Failure" and dedicating it to studying how this presidency went so wrong -- a task as big as Texas itself.

http://tinyurl.com/d2uwyn

http://deadon.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/rabbit_pancake.jpg

And this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oolong_the_Rabbit

Just for fun . . .

http://www.faithmouse.com/john_mccain_pancake_head.jpg

(I couldn't resist!)

Two comments:

1. It's just my opinion, but if Jesus were alive today He wouldn't be a"Christian". He might be something else, but surely not a Christian, for no Christians I know espouse his teachings.

2. About the George W. Bush Management Memorial or whatever it'll be called: George Bush was, and is, the living example of the uselessness of an MBA. For furthere proof, we need look no further than Wall Street and the criminal activity and actions there.

Just the other morning, one of my nurses said, "I was gonna RETIRE in five years, but not now...THANKS OBAMA!"

And then went on to rant about him being the anti-christ and was gonna bring on the "Rapture", etc..

"Bring it ON!" sez I, "We could use the elbow room!"

-T

Hajji,

Of course it's all Obama's fault. Didnt' you know that? If he would just give the millionairs and billionaires another huge tax break and keep funding the wars on the backs of the middle class everything would be ok! Can'l we all get this through our thick skulls?

Geeez!

RE:Incredulous

"Barry?

Dang, I remember 3rd grade when I used to call people names. But you see, the thing is, I grew out of it.

One would think one would be too ashamed for name calling in a public forum, but I guess when you have no argument, namecalling is all that's left.

What's next, "your mama" jokes?"

Newsweek 2008 -

"Barry Obama decided that he didn't like his nickname. A few of his friends at Occidental College had already begun to call him Barack (his formal name), and he'd come to prefer that. The way his half sister, Maya, remembers it, Obama returned home at Christmas in 1980, and there he told his mother and grandparents: no more Barry. Obama recalls it slightly differently, but in the same basic time frame. He believes he told his mom he wanted to be called Barack when she visited him in New York the following summer. By both accounts, it seemed that the elder relatives were reluctant to embrace the change. Maya recalls that Obama's maternal grandparents, who had played a big role in raising him, continued long after that to call him by an affectionate nickname, "Bar." "Not just them, but my mom, too," says Obama."

I guess third grade was four of the best years of your life, eh?

Just for fun . . .

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2373964.ece

Great photo - Obama's muslim relatives seem to routinely inhabit countries illegally (just like auntie in Boston, and this one of 11 step brothers in UK).

BTW, what's that Barry is smoking?

Denmac,

Keep up the name calling, please. It's immature, and does more than anything else to show how little you have to add to the conversation.

I would think you would figure out you are making yourself look foolish, but I guess you need a few more opportunities to learn.

Aw, you libs are too modest. The left has PERFECTED the art of name calling (i.e. "vast right-wing conspiracy", "right-wing extremists", etc.) -

"WASHINGTON – A newly unclassified Department of Homeland Security report warns against the possibility of violence by unnamed "right-wing extremists" concerned about illegal immigration, increasing federal power, restrictions on firearms, abortion and the loss of U.S. sovereignty and singles out returning war veterans as particular threats."

Oh, and I like how the left "support" our troops, that is, if considering returning war vets as "particular threats" is support!

Posted by: GenotheGreat | April 14, 2009 8:52 AM :
" It's just my opinion, but if Jesus were alive today He wouldn't be a"Christian". He might be something else, but surely not a Christian, for no Christians I know espouse his teachings. "
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Actually, Geno, If Jesus were alive, he would still be a Jew, just as he has always been and always will be.

Ms Wall and other worshippers of sun myung moon claim to be Christians. That's very funny.

denmac,

We're only interested in rebushlican crime : george's criminal uncle prescott,perv nephew, junkie niece, bank swindler brother marvin, and drunk-in-public daughters - not to mention the old war criminal himself. When you get through explaining your 8 years of support for the bush crime family, we can discuss dick cheney's getting drunk and mistaking his pal for a pheasant, and then use the Secret Dervice to prevent deputies from taking a breathalyzer test. From there we can discuss the morals and criminal activity of the palin tribe, and from there move to john muckcain's adulteries, and how his wife is a convicted junkie ?
Btw, where was george w bush when george wallace was shot ?

Hey Flan:
Remember you are who you say you are when you face death! Don't be a weakling and ask a God that doesn't exist to forgive you, although we fuuly indulged Catholics do believe in death bed conversions. I would be willing to bet you will recall that fact as you are slipping away into the "darkness" and all you blowing now will be totally irrelevant at that time. Want to bet??????

A couple more thoughts on calling America a Christian nation:

1. When people say it's a Christian nation, that seriously undermines the idea that all are treated equally regardless of their religion. I mean, something similar was said about how N. Ireland was Protestant, and things, even today with lots of progress, are still not very good for Catholics, and they used to be horrible for catholics.

It's a stretch to say that Muslims in America are treated like Catholics in the North were for decades until recently, but they are treated pretty poorly and Jews have had a rough time to.

It's just one more reason to not call this a Christian nation, since some people get the message that non-Christians don't belong here or can be discriminated against, that sort of thing. Even when the statement is accompanied by saying we welcome all religions, that's a contradictory message and a lot of people go with the bulk of what's being said, that it's a Christian nation.

2. Although Wall didn't say this, I think some of these people point to the Founding Fathers, and those people can be shut up or exposed by explaining the following. Considering how some of the founding fathers were not Christians (or Jewish, since these people sometimes say "Judeo-Christian") but were more or less agnostics, it seems like it would make as much sense to call America a white male nation, and only the white supremacists say that.

Tom

Hard core: Why is it, that when I tell people I am an athiest, they bring up this whole deathbed confession scenario? I had this discussion with someone who believes that if I don't believe in Jesus Christ as my Savior, then I won't go to heaven. What about all of the Jews? Will they all go to hell too? It is so ridiculous!

The thing is - I don't believe in heaven or hell and never will. This is something people made up to make other people behave. It's like telling kids that Santa won't bring them a present if they don't behave.

Don't you know that betting is evil? Shame on you!

I am a Christian and love Jesus just as much as the next God fearing believer. I just have a problem when I hear people say that this is a christian nation. No doubt that God is using this nation and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. But there is no mention of Jesus Christ in the constitution. The new testament clearly points to Jesus as our saviour and makes no room for compromise. And one of our statements in the constitution points to the freedom of religion. If I remember correctly, one of the commandments is not to have any other gods or idols before God. So if you put the constitution up next to most major religions, u could make it fit that religion because it simply mentions a god and does not measure up to the standards stated in the new testement. Plus I don't understand how the "founding fathers" who where slave owners, can always get a pass for being these great men of God. If I pastored a church today and told my people that I had slaves that I impregnated, I would not be qualified by today's "christianity" to lead God's people. Let us be fair and call things for what they are. If a christian today where to have a slave then he would be considered non-christian. And for the athiests and those who do believe as I do, I have much respect for you and apologize that the true message of Christ's love for all of us has been screwed up by people and their zealuos ideologies and what they want to believe based on christian myths and not true belief in Jesus Himself

[The following, found on the web, is a fantastic exposure of the 179-year-old "rapture" belief used by Rightists such as LaHaye and Lindsey to raise funds for political agendas. - Antonio]

PRETRIB RAPTURE DISHONESTY

by Dave MacPherson

When I began my research in 1970 into the exact beginnings of the pretribulation rapture belief still held by many evangelicals, I assumed that the rapture debate involved only "godly scholars with honest differences." The paper you are now reading reveals why I gave up that assumption many years ago. With this introduction-of-sorts in mind, let's take a long look at the pervasive dishonesty throughout the history of the 179-year-old pretrib rapture theory:

Mid-1820's - German scholar Max Weremchuk's work "John Nelson Darby" (1992) included what Benjamin Newton revealed about John Darby in the mid-1820's during his pre-Brethren days as an Anglican clergyman:
"J. N. Darby was a very subtle man. He had been a lawyer, or at least educated for the law. Once he wanted his Archbishop to pursue a certain course, when he (J.N.D.) was a curate in his diocese. He wrote a letter, therefore, saying he had been educated for the law, knew what the legal course would properly be; and then having written that clearly, he mystified the remainder of the letter both in word and in handwriting, and ended up by saying: You see, my Lord, such being the legal aspect of the case it would unquestionably be the best course for you to pursue, etc. And the Archbishop couldn't make out the legal part, but rested on Darby's word and did as he advised. Darby afterwards laughed over it, and indeed he showed a copy of the letter to Tregelles. This is not mentioned in the Archbishop's biography, but in it is the fact that he spoke of Darby as 'the most subtle man in my diocese.'"
This reminds me of an 1834 letter by Darby which spoke of the "Lord's coming." Darby added, concerning this coming, that "the thoughts are new" and that during any teaching of it "it would not be well to have it so clear." Darby's deviousness here was his usage of a centuries-old term - "Lord's coming" - to cover up his desire to sneak the new pretrib idea into existing posttrib groups in very low-profile ways!
1830 - In the spring of 1830 a young Scottish lassie, Margaret Macdonald, came up with the novel notion of a catching up [rapture] of Spirit-filled "church" members before Antichrist's "trial" [tribulation] of non-Spirit-filled "church" members - the first instance I've found of clear "pretrib" teaching (which was part of a partial rapture scheme). In Sep. 1830 "The Morning Watch" (a journal produced by London preacher Edward Irving and his "Irvingite" followers, some of whom had visited Margaret a few weeks earlier) began repeating her original thoughts and even her wording but gave her no credit - the first plagiarism I've found in pretrib history. Darby was still defending posttrib in Dec. 1830.
Pretrib promoters have long known the significance of her main point: a rapture of "church" members BEFORE the revealing of Antichrist. Which is why John Walvoord quoted nothing in her revelation, why Thomas Ice habitually skips over her main point but quotes lines BEFORE and AFTER it, and why Hal Lindsey muddies up her main point so he can (falsely) assert that she was NOT a pretribber! (Google "X-Raying Margaret" for info about her.)
NOTE: The development of the 1800's is thoroughly documented in my book "The Rapture Plot." You'll learn that Darby wasn't original on any chief aspect of dispensationalism (but plagiarized the Irvingites); that pretrib was initially based on only OT and NT symbols and not clear Scripture; that the symbols included the Jewish feasts, the two witnesses, and the man child - symbols adopted by Darby during most of his career; that Darby's later reminiscences exaggerated his earliest pretrib development, and that today's defenders such as Thomas Ice have further overstated what Darby overstated; that Irvingism didn't need later reminiscences to "clarify" its own early pretrib development; that ancient hymns and even the writings of the Reformers were subtly revised to make it appear they had taught pretrib; and that after Darby's death a clever revisionist quietly made many changes in early Irvingite and Brethren documents in order to steal credit for pretrib away from the Irvingites (and their female inspiration!) and give it dishonestly to Darby! (Before continuing, Google the "Powered by Christ Ministries" site and read "America's Pretrib Rapture Traffickers" - a sample of the current exciting internetism!)
1920 - Charles Trumbull's book "The Life Story of C. I. Scofield" told only the dispensationally-correct side of his life. Two recent books, Joseph Canfield's "The Incredible Scofield and His Book" (1988) and David Lutzweiler's "DispenSinsationalism: C. I. Scofield's Life and Errors" (2006), reveal the other side including his being jailed as a forger, dishonestly giving himself a non-conferred "D.D." etc. etc.!
1967 - Brethren scholar Harold Rowdon's "The Origins of the Brethren" quoted Darby associate Lord Congleton who was "disgusted with...the falseness" of Darby's accounts of things. Rowdon also quoted historian William Neatby who said that others felt that "the time-honoured method of single combat" was as good as anything "to elicit the truth" from Darby. (In other words, knock it out of him!)
1972 - Tim LaHaye's "The Beginning of the End" (1972) plagiarized Hal Lindsey's "The Late Great Planet Earth" (1970).
1976 - Charles Ryrie"s "The Living End" (1976) plagiarized Lindsey's "The Late Great Planet Earth" (1970) and "There's A New World Coming" (1973).
1976 - After John Walvoord's "The Blessed Hope and the Tribulation" (1976) brutally twisted Robert Gundry's "The Church and the Tribulation" (1973), Gundry composed and circulated a 35-page open letter to Walvoord which repeatedly charged the Dallas Seminary president with "misrepresentation," "misrepresentations" (and variations)!
1981 - "The Fundamentalist Phenomenon" (1981) by Jerry Falwell, Ed Dobson, and Ed Hindson heavily plagiarized George Dollar's 1973 book "A History of Fundamentalism in America."
1984 - After a prof at Southeastern College of the Assemblies of God in Florida told me that the No. 2 man at the AG world headquarters in Missouri - Joseph Flower - had the label of posttrib, my wife and I had two hour-long chats with him. He verified what I had been told. But we were dumbstruck when he told us that although AG ministers are required to promote pretrib, privately they can believe any other rapture view! Flower said that his father, an AG co-founder, was also posttrib. We also learned while in Springfield that when the AG's were organized in 1914, the initial group was divided between posttribs and pretribs - but that the pretribs shouted louder which resulted in that denomination officially adopting pretrib! (For details on this and other pretrib double-mindedness, Google "Pretrib Hypocrisy.")
1989 - Since 1989 Thomas Ice has referred to the "Mac-theory" (his reference to my research), giving the impression there's no solid evidence that Macdonald was the real pretrib originator. But Ice carefully conceals the fact that no eminent church historian of the 1800's - whether Plymouth Brethren or Irvingite - credited Darby with pretrib. Instead, they uniformly credited leading Irvingite sources, all of which upheld the Scottish lassie's contribution! Moreover, I'm hardly the only modern scholar seeing significance in Irvingism's territory. Others in recent years who have noted it, but who haven't mined it as deeply as I have, include Fuller, Ladd, Bass, Rowdon, Sandeen, and Gundry.
1989 - Greg Bahnsen and Kenneth Gentry produced evidence in 1989 that Lindsey's book "The Road to Holocaust" (1989) plagiarized "Dominion Theology" (1988) by H. Wayne House and Thomas Ice.
1990 - David Jeremiah's and C. C. Carlson's "Escape the Coming Night" (1990) massively plagiarized Lindsey's 1973 book "There's A New World Coming." (For more info, type in "Thieves' Marketing" on MSN or Google.)
1991 - Paul Lee Tan's "A Pictorial Guide to Bible Prophecy" (1991) plagiarized large amounts of Lindsey's "The Late Great Planet Earth" (1970).
1991 - Militant Darby defender R. A. Huebner claimed in 1991 to have found new evidence that Darby was pretrib as early as 1827 - three years before Macdonald. Halfway through his book Huebner suddenly admitted that his evidence could refer to something completely un-rapturesque. Even though Thomas Ice admitted to me that he knew that Huebner had "blown" his so-called evidence, prevaricator Ice continues to tell the world that Huebner has "positive evidence" that Darby was pretrib in 1827! Ice also conceals the fact that Darby, in his own 1827 paper, was looking for only "the restitution of all things" and "the times of refreshing" (Acts 3:19,21) - which Scofield doesn't see fulfilled until AFTER a future tribulation!
1992 - Tim LaHaye's "No Fear of the Storm" (1992) plagiarized Walvoord's "The Blessed Hope and the Tribulation" (1976).
1992 - This was when the Los Angeles Times revealed that "The Magog Factor" (1992) by Hal Lindsey and Chuck Missler was a monstrous plagiarism of Prof. Edwin Yamauchi's scholarly 1982 work "Foes from the Northern Frontier." Four months after this exposure, Lindsey and Missler stated they had stopped publishing and promoting their book. But in 1996 Dr. Yamauchi learned that the dishonest duo had issued a 1995 book called "The Magog Invasion" which still had a substantial amount of the same plagiarism! (If Lindsey and Missler ever need hernia operations, I predict that the doctors will tell them not to lift anything for a long time!)
1994 - In 1996 it was revealed that Lindsey's "Planet Earth - 2000 A.D. (1994) had an embarrassing amount of plagiarism of a Texe Marrs book titled "Mystery Mark of the New Age" (1988).
1995 - My book "The Rapture Plot" reveals the dishonesty in Darby's reprinted works. It's often hard to tell who wrote the footnotes and when. It's easy to believe that the notes, and also unsigned phrases inside brackets within the text, were a devious attempt by someone (Darby? his editor?) to portray a Darby far more developed in pretrib thinking than he actually had been at the time. I found that some of the "additives" had been taken from Darby's much later works, when he was more developed, and placed next to or inside his earliest works! One footnote by Darby's editor, attached to Darby's 1830 paper, actually stated that "it was not worth while either suppressing or changing" anything in this work! If his editor wasn't open to such dishonesty, how can we explain such a statement?
Post-1995 - Thomas Ice's article "Inventor of False Pre-Trib Rapture History" states that my book "The Rapture Plot" is "only one of the latest in a series of revisions of his original discourse...." And David Reagan in his article "The Origin of the Concept of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture" repeats Ice's falsehood by claiming that I have republished my first book "over the years under several different titles."
Although my book repeats a bit of the Macdonald origin of pretrib (for new readers), all of my books are packed with new material not found in my other works. For some clarification, "The Incredible Cover-Up" has photos of pertinent places in Ireland, Scotland, and England not found in my later books plus several chapters dealing with theological arguments; "The Great Rapture Hoax" quotes scholars throughout the Church Age, covers Scofield's hidden side, a section on Powerscourt, the 1980 election, the Jupiter Effect, Gundry's change, and more theological arguments; "The Rapture Plot" reveals for the first time the Great Evangelical Revisionism/Robbery and includes appendices on miscopying, plagiarism, etc.; and "The Three R's" shows hypocritical evangelicals employing occultic beliefs they say they have long opposed!
So Thomas Ice etc. are twisting truth when they claim I am only a revisionist. Do they really think that my publishers DON'T know what I've previously written?
Re arguments, Google "Pretrib Rapture - Hidden Facts" and also obtain "The End Times Passover" and "Why Christians Will Suffer 'Great Tribulation' " (AuthorHouse, 2006) by media personality Joe Ortiz.
1997 - For years Harvest House Publishers has owned and been republishing Lindsey's book "There's A New World Coming." During the same time Lindsey has been peddling his reportedly "new" book "Apocalyse Code" (1997), much of which is word-for-word the same as the Harvest House book - and there's no notice of "simultaneous publishing" in either book! Talk about pretrib greed!
1997 - This is the year I discovered that more than 50 pages of Dallas Seminary professor Merrill Unger's book "Beyond the Crystal Ball" (Moody Press, 1973) constituted a colossal plagiarism of Lindsey's "The Late Great Planet Earth" (1970). After Lindsey's book came out, Unger had complained that Lindsey's book had plagiarized his classroom lecture notes. It was evident that Unger felt that he too should cash in on his own lectures! (The detailed account of this Dallas Seminary dishonesty is revealed in my 1998 book "The Three R's.")
1998 - Tim LaHaye's "Understanding the Last Days" (1998) plagiarized Lindsey's "There's A New World Coming" (1973).
1999 - More than 200 pages (out of 396 pages) in Lindsey's 1999 book "Vanished Into Thin Air" are virtually carbon copies of pages in his 1983 book "The Rapture" - with no "updated" or "revised" notice included! Lindsey has done the same nervy thing with several of his books, something that has allowed him to live in million-dollar-plus homes and drive cars like Ferraris! (See my Google articles "Deceiving and Being Deceived" and "Thieves' Marketing" for further evidence of this notably pretrib vice.)
2000 - A Jack Van Impe article "The Moment After" (2000) plagiarized Grant Jeffrey's book "Final Warning" (1995).
2001 - Since 2001 my web article "Walvoord's Posttrib 'Varieties' - Plus" has been exposing his devious muddying up of posttrib waters. In some of his books he invented four "distinct" and "contradictory" posttrib divisions, claiming that they are either "classic" or "semiclassic" or "futurist" or "dispensational" - distinctions that disappear when analyzed! His "futurist" group holds to a literal future tribulation and a literal millennium but doesn't embrace "any day" imminency. But his "dispensational" group has the same non-imminency! Moreover, tribulational futurism is found in every group except the first one, and he somehow admitted that a literal millennium is in all four groups! On the other hand, it's the pretribs who consistently disagree with each other over their chief points and subpoints - but somehow end up agreeing that there will be a pretrib rapture! (See my chapter "A House Divided" in my book "The Incredible Cover-Up.")
2001 - Since my "Deceiving and Being Deceived" web item which exposed the claims for Pseudo-Ephraem" and "Morgan Edwards" as teachers of pretrib, there has been a piranha-like frenzy on the part of pretrib bodyguards and their duped groupies to "discover" almost anything before 1830 walking upright on two legs that seemed to have at least a remote hint of pretrib! (An exemplary poster boy for such pretrib practice is Grant Jeffrey. To get your money's worth, Google "Wily Jeffrey.")

FINALLY: Don't take my word for any of the above. Read my 300-page book "The Rapture Plot" which has a jillion more documented details on the long-hidden but now-revealed history of the dishonest, 179-year-old, fringe-British-invented, American-merchandised-until-the-real-bad-stuff-happens pretribulation rapture fad. If this book of mine doesn't "move" you, I will personally refund what you paid for it!

THE BEST RAPTURE LOCATER

Guess what. If you can figure out when the "sudden destruction" of wicked persons takes place in I Thess. 5:3, and when "death" is ended in I Cor. 15:54, you will know where to place the rapture on your prophecy chart because those passages talk about the "times and seasons" (and the "when" and "then" ) of the rapture! Neat, huh?