David Corn

"By January 2013, America has welcomed home most of the servicemen and women who have sacrificed terribly so that America might be secure in her freedom."

I think he means that most of the bodies of the dead have been welcomed home.

When I grew up I was secure in my Freedom as it was guaranteed me by the United States of America. Now that it a Home Made Security I do not feel secure in the least. As long as tyrants send our uniformed forces to die in a war crime I feel neither secure, nor free.

Lt. John McCain = War Criminal in Vietnam
Sen. John McCain = War Criminal in Iraq and Afghanistan
President John McCain = War Criminal in Chief

As George W. Bush would probably say "If it looks like a turd, walks like a turd and smells like a turd, it's probably Karl Rove". I don't know what he would say about McCain, oh yeh - "I have given him my blessing".

Sounds like Corn's scared, very, very scared!!!

The flip flop express!

Just proves again McSame will say anything to get elected.

Timetables - wadda guy.

geof01,

John McCain is a veteran who served with honor and distinction. He understands the real stakes involved when it comes to war. People seem top forget his many criticisms of how various phases of the conflict have been conducted by the present administration.

Actually, despite David's insinuation, Senator McCain has never indicated he would withdraw troops short of a victory! The second quote above is simply his estimate of when the troops will be coming home based upon all the available information and his judgement.

-Tim

Huge McCain Blunder: Says Reagan Didn't Negotiate With Iran

Look at what John McCain, Mr. Foreign Policy Experience, said today while agreeing with Bush's repulsive remarks in Israel:

“Yes, there have been appeasers in the past, and the president is exactly right, and one of them is Neville Chamberlain,'’ Mr. McCain told reporters on his campaign bus after a speech in Columbus, Ohio. “I believe that it’s not an accident that our hostages came home from Iran when President Reagan was president of the United States. He didn’t sit down in a negotiation with the religious extremists in Iran, he made it very clear that those hostages were coming home.'’

The Obama campaign and we in the liberal blogosphere need to jump on these comments. Once again, McCain has demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge about foreign policy and American history. First he got confused over Sunnis and Shiites, now this.

McCain seems to be forgetting something kind of important that happened during the Reagan administration.

It's called the Iran-Contra Scandal.

http://tinyurl.com/3p6cqx

*****

I can't wait for the debates.

Judiciary Committee Threatening to ARREST ROVE!

[...]

Dan Abrams just said that Conyers on the Judiciary Committee is threatening to ARREST ROVE! They can actually issue an arrest warrant, and then send the sergeant-at-arms anywhere in the country to arrest this son of a b****.

According to CBS News

Just off the House floor today, the Crypt overheard House Judiciary Chairman John Conyers tell two other people: "We're closing in on Rove. Someone's got to kick his ass."

Asked a few minutes later for a more official explanation, Conyers told us that Rove has a week to appear before his committee. If he doesn't, said Conyers, "We'll do what any self-respecting committee would do. We'd hold him in contempt. Either that or go and have him arrested."

It is about time that congress remind this boy emperor that we have THREE branches of government, and that the president is NOT a king.

http://tinyurl.com/4ypqxg

*****

Rove in handcuffs - frog marched for the cameras or he could just testify. The choice is his.

As always the chickens come home to roost.

John McCain Trades Straight Talk for Unadulterated Fantasy

[...]

Despite starting his speech by saying how important it is for candidates to lay out "what they plan to achieve not with vague language but with clarity," McCain then proceeded to spin his cotton candy daydream with nary a hint of how his lofty and admirable goals will be accomplished. He's taking us on a trip to Fantasyland, but at no point does he show us how we're going to get there.

Sure, he tossed out a few generalized, pie-in-the-sky allusions to "reforms of the [health] insurance market" and "reforms to the way we acquire weapons programs" and a handful of specifics, including "a reduction in the corporate tax rate" and the building of "20 new nuclear reactors." But when it came to Iraq, he didn't offer even the vaguest clue about how -- after five long years of failure -- victory, democracy, the defeat of al Qaeda, the prevention of civil war, the disbanding of militias, and the sudden competence of the Iraqi military will magically be achieved. Rather, one morning four and a half years from now, we're going to wake up and pigs will be flying, and all will be right with the world.

I get the thinking behind the McCain camp's strategy. With 82 percent of the public unhappy with the direction of the county, and with 68 percent unhappy with the war, and 75 percent anxious about the economy (which McCain admits he doesn't understand all that well), there is no way McCain or his fellow Republicans can run on reality or their record over the last seven-plus years, so they have to run on fantasy.

But building castles in the sky -- and painting rosy, reality-free scenarios -- runs counter to McCain's brand as a straight talker™ who tells it like it is, even when that means admitting that ending the war or fixing the economy or passing needed reforms won't be easy.

http://tinyurl.com/3loyad

*****

Some people love a fantasy - maybe this will work? We'll see in November..

Tim,
Why is it always a "Tim?"
I appreciate your defense of Gramps' service. However....

Actually, despite David's insinuation, Senator McCain has never indicated he would withdraw troops short of a victory!
Posted by: Tim May 15, 2008 8:18 PM

Now, of course, McCain is asserting that his troop withdrawal will be the result of victory in Iraq.
By David Corn May 15, 2008 4:55 PM

Why are you putting insinuations in Mr. Corn's mouth?

The second quote above is simply his estimate of when the troops will be coming home based upon all the available information and his judgement.
Posted by: Tim May 15, 2008 8:18 PM

It is precisely this "Judgment" that needs to be carefully assessed. People forget that Gramps authorized this fiasco in Iraq. He was a prominent cheerleader every step of the way from his early appearances on the talking heads shows to his staged "walks" in various markets in Iraq.

McBush's defenders have been trying to help him distance himself from his own words; but facts are facts. How bad was his judgment? First, he put his faith in Mr. 20% and his cowboy diplomacy.

Then he tried to play it off as if he knew the President could not be trusted:

McCain Now Claims He ‘Had No Confidence’ In Bush Before The Surge

Gramps in 2007: "I’m offering them the record of having objected strenuously to a failed strategy for nearly four years. That I argued against and fought against and said that the secretary of defense of my own party, and MY OWN PRESIDENT, I had no confidence in. "

As late as August 2006, McCain declared that he did have “confidence” in Bush’s leadership in Iraq:

Q: Do you, do you have confidence in the president and his national security team to lead the war at this stage?
McCAIN: I do. I do. I have confidence in the President and I believe that he is well aware of the severity of the situation. [Meet The Press, 8/20/06]

McCain told reporters yesterday he “objected strenuously to a failed strategy for nearly four years.” If this were the case, why would he also praise Bush’s “stay the course” message over that time?

– “I was heartened to hear the President say that we cannot cut and run in Iraq.” [Press Release, 11/5/03]

– “I’m confident we’re on the right course.” [ABC News, 3/7/04]

– “And what the president did tonight is the most important thing. He laid out an articulate vision for victory in Iraq and why we need to stay the course.” [Fox, 6/28/05]
Thinkprogress: http://tinyurl.com/3m74jh
==+==
Gramps is running for cover, and cuttin-n-running as fast as he can. His words follow him wherever he goes

Pande,

See my other post on the previous thread. It's actually the same Tim you used to know (and love...)

Anyway, my problem with Mr. Corn is the same one I have with a lot of folks of his political persuasion. They deliberately misconstrue what people say. If you read the first quote carefully, you see that Senator McCain was referring to is a withdrawel REGARDLESS of consequences like the Democrats want. The second quote is simply his expression of when he thinks the troops will be home AFTER a victory!

Pande,

Gramps? Hmmmm. I'll take age and wisdom any day over youth and inexperience. I'll take someone whose been tested in battle any day over someone that simply doesn't understand what it means to serve your country.

But I digress. Aren't you a little sore from the contortions it took to take Senator McCain's remarks out of context? I believe his record speaks for itself. Who was it that stated early on that the tactics we were using in Iraq weren't working? Who was one of the key drivers for a new strategy, specifically the surge? John McCain.

This speech was so odd, and confusing, and he has a problem, because it will be brought up in the Debates to come, and how will he defend it. He sounds confused when he speaks, as though he really doesn't know what he is being told to say. I wish his medical records would be released.

RUBIN: "Do you think that American diplomats should be operating the way they have in the past, working with the Palestinian government if Hamas is now in charge?"

McCAIN: "They're the government; sooner or later we are going to have to deal with them, one way or another, and I understand why this administration and previous administrations had such antipathy towards Hamas because of their dedication to violence and the things that they not only espouse but practice, so . . . but it's a new reality in the Middle East. I think the lesson is people want security and a decent life and decent future, that they want democracy. Fatah was not giving them that."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icooZ4PTM60

*****

Grampa McSame can't remember what he is for.

Senile dementia. Plain and simple.

McSame cannot seem to keep his story straight.

In anticipation of the 200th birthday of Abraham Lincoln in February 2009, by which time a new President will have been elected and will have taken the oath of office to defend the Constitution, I recall at least one quote of his I was taught in elementary school:

"No man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar."

And he lived in a time there was no blogospheric punditocracy or FactCheck.org...

I'll take age and wisdom any day over youth and inexperience.
Posted by: Tim May 15, 2008 11:02 PM

I'll give you the age since we've posted the link to all of the things that are younger than McBush (including Mt. Rushmore). The Wisdom is laughable considering (again) that he authorized the fiasco in Iraq and was one of the major cheerleaders immediately after the conflict began on all the Sunday morning shows.

"I'll take someone whose been tested in battle any day over someone that simply doesn't understand what it means to serve your country."
Posted by: Tim May 15, 2008 11:02 PM

That cuts both ways since there has been a steady parade of vets that opposed the war at every step (not just when Americans had grown weary of the disaster). McBush broke both ankles and mangled his butt jumping on the anti-war juggernaut. Senator Obama is driving that juggernaut.

"But I digress. Aren't you a little sore from the contortions it took to take Senator McCain's remarks out of context?"
Posted by: Tim May 15, 2008 11:02 PM

Isn't your neck sore from twisting in a 180 degree angle to look the other way when it comes to Gramps' words? How sad that you would fall back on that old saw just to carry water for the old man. His words are directly from q&a sessions and speak volumes about his duplicity. If you truly believe that the context discounts his approval of Mr. 20% and his policies, make your case. He (and people like you) have a tendency to gloss over his past statements to make him seem like a critic when he wasn't.... until the American public grew tired of the debacle.

In 2003, McCain Claimed ‘Mission Accomplished’ In Iraq, Now Claims ‘I Thought It Was Wrong At The Time’

McCain then said of the banner: “I thought it was wrong at the time.” But while the White House has actually acknowledged making an error, McCain himself used the term “mission accomplished” when talking about the Iraq war on at least two occasions in 2003:
Source: http://tinyurl.com/69ktuz

– “Their morale could not be higher. This is a mission accomplished. They know how much influence Saddam Hussein had on the Iraqi people, how much more difficult it made to get their cooperation.” [This Week, ABC, 12/14/03]

– During an appearance on Fox News, host Neil Cavuto said, “many argue the conflict isn’t over.” McCain answered, “Well, then why was there a banner that said mission accomplished on the aircraft carrier?” [FOX, Your World With Neil Cavuto, 6/11/03]

==+==
He wants to have it both ways at every turn. He wants to be a cheerleader and be counted as a critic.

"I believe his record speaks for itself. Who was it that stated early on that the tactics we were using in Iraq weren't working? Who was one of the key drivers for a new strategy, specifically the surge? John McCain."
Posted by: Tim May 15, 2008 11:02 PM

Again. He's played on both sides of the issues:

Klein: In January, McCain insisted Basra was ‘not a problem.’

Last week, Moqtada al-Sadr waged a full-out assault on Iraqi national forces in Basra, a move that Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) said “surprised” him. Today, Time’s Joe Klein writes that McCain assured him of Basra’s stability just two months ago:

Furthermore, McCain’s frequent “You don’t know anything” tirades about national security might be more effective if he had a better sense of the war in question. When I asked him about Basra in January, he assured me that it was “not a problem.”

As Klein puts it, “McCain’s carelessness and oversimplification, and wrong analysis, when it comes to the situation in Iraq puts him in a surprisingly vulnerable position.”
Source: http://tinyurl.com/4c96oh

More duplicity:

McCain Claims He Knew Iraq War Would Be ‘Long And Hard And Tough,’ Contradicting Pre-War Statements

Today on MSNBC, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) claimed that he knew the Iraq war was “probably going to be long and hard and tough,” and that he was “sorry” for those who voted for the war believing it would be “some kind of an easy task.” “Maybe they didn’t know what they were voting for.”

In fact, during the run-up to war in 2002 and 2003, McCain repeatedly described the prospects of war in the rosiest terms, declaring the U.S. would “win easily”:

“Because I know that as successful as I believe we will be, and I believe that the success will be fairly easy, we will still lose some American young men or women.” [CNN, 9/24/02]

“We’re not going to get into house-to-house fighting in Baghdad. We may have to take out buildings, but we’re not going to have a bloodletting of trading American bodies for Iraqi bodies.” [CNN, 9/29/02]

“But the point is that, one, we will win this conflict. We will win it easily.” [MSNBC, 1/22/03]
Source: http://tinyurl.com/42gdt8

More distortions from McBush and his supporters:

McCain: ‘I Was The Greatest Critic’ Of The Iraq War Over The Last Four Years»

Yesterday on CNN, host Kiran Chetry suggested to Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) that he’s been unfairly “painted as being a huge supporter of the president’s Iraq strategy. Is that an accurate portrayal?” she asked.

McCain responded that “life isn’t fair” because, in reality, he’s been “the greatest critic of the initial four years” of war:

It’s entertaining, in that I was the greatest critic of the initial four years, three and a half years. I came back from my first trip to Iraq and said, This is going to fail. We’ve got to change the strategy to the one we’re using now. But life isn’t fair.

The “greatest critic” who claimed the war would “fail”? Nobody heard that from McCain when he was busy campaigning for Bush’s reelection in 2004 and praising the President’s leadership. Here’s a sampling of what the “greatest critic” of the war was telling us in the months and years after the invasion:

“But I believe, Katie, that the Iraqi people will greet us as liberators.” [NBC, 3/20/03]

“It’s clear that the end is very much in sight.” [ABC, 4/9/03]

“There’s not a history of clashes that are violent between Sunnis and Shiahs. So I think they can probably get along.” [MSNBC, 4/23/03]

“This is a mission accomplished. They know how much influence Saddam Hussein had on the Iraqi people, how much more difficult it made to get their cooperation.” [This Week, ABC, 12/14/03]

“I’m confident we’re on the right course.” [ABC News, 3/7/04]

“I think the initial phases of it were so spectacularly successful that it took us all by surprise.” [CBS, 10/31/04]

“I do think that progress is being made in a lot of Iraq. Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course. If I thought we weren’t making progress, I’d be despondent.” [The Hill, 12/8/05]

==+==
For every smidge of "criticism" that he uttered, there's a pile of praise and promise. It's just like yesterday's speech.

I don't know why anyone takes the hallucinations of a seventy-something politician seriously. He has been wrong on this issue from day one. And if he wants to make it a focal point of his platform, I'm all for it. Americans will shun him like they have his mentor, Mr. 20%.

oops. The linky for the quotes above:
http://tinyurl.com/yp2kpd

Bush never lied
The surge worked
The occupation has been a success
McSame has character.

ROTFLMFAO!

McCain's victory will be precisely the same one we had when we left Saigon at the end of the Vietnam war. I can already foresee the helicopters lifting people out of the green zone as the insurgents stream in.

McCain flips, flops and repeats as necessary. His knowledge of war was gained by dropping bombs on civilians from 30,000 feet and by being severly beaten for having killed them.

Having been tortured he was against torture until it became obvious that America's right wing has utter , total and complete faith that torture is the magic potion of Democracy. At that point he was aginst it unless it was being committed by the CIA. He is glad to give the CIA carte blanche to torture anyone they wish.

The man is old and confused and he willnot get any better. He is the Bob Dole fo this election cycle.

McCain's victory will be precisely the same one we had when we left Saigon at the end of the Vietnam war. I can already foresee the helicopters lifting people out of the green zone as the insurgents stream in.

McCain flips, flops and repeats as necessary. His knowledge of war was gained by dropping bombs on civilians from 30,000 feet and by being severly beaten for having killed them.

Having been tortured he was against torture until it became obvious that America's right wing has utter , total and complete faith that torture is the magic potion of Democracy. At that point he was aginst it unless it was being committed by the CIA. He is glad to give the CIA carte blanche to torture anyone they wish.

The man is old and confused and he willnot get any better. He is the Bob Dole fo this election cycle.

Bob Dole was a better more substantial and more youthful candidate.

Tim,

Your wasting your time with Pansy, he's got permanent knee pads on for his Man Crush of Obama!

Then theres Capt who can't wait for his master-bater Obama to take on McCain.

HUGS FOR THUGS COULD SINK NAIVE OBAMA

May 16, 2008 -- WASHINGTON - What is it about the word "appeasement" that got Barack Obama's ears ringing?

Without once uttering the freshman anti-war senator's name, President Bush warned against negotiating with terrorists on the futile hope that a little more dialogue will turn these satanic beasts from their death pact to wipe Israel off the map and kill as many American men, women and children as possible.

Obama, who has proposed meeting with the leaders of Iran, Syria and North Korea just as soon as he gets into the White House, heard his name somewhere in the president's speech and quickly issued a press release.

The White House insisted Obama was simply suffering from the narcissism that convinces so many politicians that everyone is talking about them.

Top Democratic leaders, including Sen. Chuck Schumer, called it a below-the-belt political attack.

It is beyond comprehension that anyone would suggest that this is somehow not a pressing matter of political discussion in an election year.

Or maybe Democrats are just now figuring out that Obama's position here might leave him open to withering attacks.

Well, it's a little late for that.

He's their nominee and they've got to go with it.

If Obama doesn't add a little muscle to his approach to dealing with evil in the world, Republicans are going to be offering a suggested running mate for his ticket.

Someone, say, to beef up Obama's thin foreign-policy résumé and who agrees with his world philosophy: Sounds like a job for Jimmy Carter.

~~~~

Obama is a Pansy~~~

Barack Obamas America. Fast forward to 2012

National Review ^ | May 15, 2008 | Michael Novak

If the United States shows signs of weakness, surrender, and a one-sided departure from Iraq, the rejoicing of those who predicted that they would in the end defeat us will profoundly strengthen their resolve for the next battle. Further, without an offensive thrust in Iraq, any military forts or airfields of ours would be sheltered in a defensive enclave -- announcing to those who hate us that they should keep killing two or more Americans every day, drip, drip, drip, until the American people cannot stand it any more. Weakness once shown invites fiercer aggression.

Iran will thus have its nuclear weapon by 2012, secure in the knowledge that Americans have no heart to do battle to prevent it.

In Pakistan, forces of economic and political development will know that they can no longer count on the Americans as a last resort. They would soon - to save their families - begin to yield more and more space to jihadists, terrorists, and promoters of sharia law.

Meanwhile, if Obama keeps his pledge to raise taxes on the top 10 percent of income earners (or even on the top 2 percent), he will give them enormous incentives to alter their behavior, so as to show lower income. Since the top 1 percent of earners pay over 35 percent of all income taxes paid by all Americans, any decline in their income means a steep decline in tax revenues. Obama seems to have no comprehension that raising tax rates at the top dramatically lowers revenue coming in. He will learn the hard way.

His policies on quasi-universal health care will change all the incentives in our current health system - and for the worse.

Mccain will bring the troops home after he wins the Iraq conflict. Winning is something Mccain fully internalized during his service in Vietnam. His vast experience in defeating and placating intractable insurgents will stand America well after his election. We need only re-examine his victory over North Vietnam to have full faith and confidence in his ability to spread the mantle of peace and prosperity over Iraq's lands and its people. Lets all toast the coming victory with a glass of sweet crude, priced at $200 per barrell.

LBH,

Yeah, I remember all the fun I had debating w/Pande in the past. At least he keeps me on my toes!

Anyway, hopefully I'll be able to make some contribution for sanity here. Keep up the good fight.

-Tim