Here's a simple way of summing up Tuesday night's debate in Cleveland between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.
Minutes after Thursday night's debate in Austin ended, the Clinton campaign zapped out a triumphant email to reporters:
We saw in the final moments in that debate is why Hillary Clinton is the next President of the United States. Her strength, her life experience, her compassion. She's tested and ready. It was the moment she retook the reins of this race and showed women and men why she is the best choice.
That was spin. The Austin debate was no win for Clinton and, as subsequent polls showed, she did not retake the reins, shout giddyup, and ride the presidential race off into a victorious sunset. In fact, Obama, following that debate, continued to gain strength in the polls in the all-important states of Ohio and Texas. Still, Clinton's campaign aides at that moment believed it was not entirely unreasonable--or delusional--to try to claim victory.
No such email followed the conclusion of the Cleveland debate. About an hour after it finished--it took an hour?!--the Clinton campaign disseminated a statement from Ohio Governor Ted Strickland, a Clinton supporter:
Hillary Clinton showed Ohioans again tonight why she is uniquely qualified to be president and begin turning our economy around on her first day in office. Hillary is the fighter, the doer and the champion Ohio's working families need. No one is better prepared to deliver quality, affordable health care for every American and lead our country as commander in chief.
Note that there was no claim of victory. Another Clinton email cited positive insta-reviews in the media about Clinton. NBC News' Andrea Mitchell, for instance, had said that Clinton "came across very credibly, very strongly as a fighter." That was true. The problem was that Obama came across rather well, too. None of the quotes her campaign found useful described Clinton's overall performance as a game-changer. And that's the point. She did perform in a fine manner. But Obama, coming across as smooth, confident, smart, passionate, and poised, did at least as well, if not better. It was the Clinton camp that wanted more and more debates. But Obama keeps improving, while she long ago hit the ceiling (and it's a high ceiling) in terms of debate performance.
So the Clinton campaign was--finally--unable to spin a victory claim. That would be playing with reality too much. And when a presidential candidate's spinners cannot claim a debate win, that candidate is in trouble.
For my insta-review of the debate, posted at MotherJones.com, click here.
Comments
Winning by losing. Sounds positively Bushian or (worse) Rovian.
Of course no campaign will come out and admit "We were WAXED" but the effort for positive spin can make most people dizzy.
Posted by: capt
| February 27, 2008 9:33 AM
"I can't wait to get together once this is all over!"
-HRClinton
How's next Wendesday grab 'ya?
Posted by: Hajji
| February 27, 2008 9:56 AM
Maybe not claiming victory was a smart move. People can't call your bluff if you don't do it.
Other thoughts- Hillary's victim of the media act is pretty transparent. She complained that lately in the debates (paraphrasing) "I always get asked questions first" even though in the previous debate the questions were split closely at 14 for her, 11 for Obama. She and her supporters complain that she gets more negative coverage. When you run a more negative campaign with mocking and innacurate attacks what do you expect? She better be careful not to fib too largely or lose her temper as it could cost her dearly.
Posted by: eyes_open
| February 27, 2008 10:38 AM
I thought they decided who gets the first question by a coin toss?
Is HRC saying the coins have a bias?
Hmmmmmm
Posted by: capt
| February 27, 2008 11:19 AM
If Hillary is on the ticket, I will vote for her.
I am concerned about her willingness to get things done in the Washington style where lobbyists fund campaigns in return for legislative favors and compliant federal agencies.
I believe her approach would be less wantonly abusive of the system than John McCain's approach who says he's against special interests but has more lobbyists on his staff than any other candidate.
The fact that Vicki Iseman's client - for whom McCain mailed an letter authored by Iseman to the FCC that was rebuked as innapropriate - was the famous Sinclair Broadcasting network that aired the anti-John Kerry propaganda callled Stolen Honor is not lost on me. Don't get me wrong, I don't particularly support Kerry, I just think Senators shouldn't use their government authority to help private clients who fund their campaigns and then claim they are above it all.
Posted by: Neil
| February 27, 2008 11:24 AM
If Rodham is the Demorat cnadidate, I'll vote Green.
Won't matter in this state.
Posted by: David B. Benson
| February 27, 2008 1:13 PM
You really need to expand your research skills Neil~~
This from left wing Huffington Post:
Lanny Davis
My Role Involving Today's Times/Post Story on John McCain
Posted February 21, 2008 | 12:09 PM (EST)
I have direct knowledge of a part of the issue reported in the New York Times and Washington Post stories on Senator McCain published on February 21, 2008.
Bottom line: what was omitted from both the Times and the Post stories was that what I wanted Senator McCain to do, he refused to do. And he did so out of a concern of appearances of impropriety. That is a fact.
In the spring of 2000, I was quoted in the Washington Post stating that fact or something close to it when this story was first written - I believe shortly after Senator McCain had defeated then Governor Bush in the 2000 New Hampshire Primary.
I repeated that fact to a Washington Post reporter several weeks ago. I never heard from the New York Times, even though, as just stated, I was on-the-record in 2000 with the Post. Yet neither newspaper, for whatever reason, included that fact in either story.
I have no ax to grind on behalf of Senator McCain. I have a high regard for him and often say so when I do TV appearances to discuss the presidential campaign. I disagree with him on most issues - especially the Iraq War. I am known to be a pretty strong liberal Democrat. I do not plan on voting for Senator McCain for president.
I make this post only to set the record straight. Senator McCain did not include in his letter what we hoped he would.
Posted by: LBH
| February 27, 2008 1:25 PM
McCain lets it rip~
McCain Mocks Obama's Iraq Comments
Wednesday, February 27, 2008 12:29 PM
TYLER, Texas -- Republican presidential hopeful John McCain mocked Democrat Barack Obama on Wednesday for saying he would take action as president "if al-Qaida is forming a base in Iraq."
"When you examine that statement, it's pretty remarkable," McCain told a crowd in Tyler, Texas.
"I have some news. Al-Qaida is in Iraq. It's called `al-Qaida in Iraq,'" McCain said, drawing laughter at Obama's expense.
Posted by: LBH
| February 27, 2008 2:18 PM
Obama on NAFTA, facts are a funny thing:
THE SPIN:
Obama on his position: "I don't think NAFTA has been good for Americans, and I never have."
Obama on her position: "She was saying great things about NAFTA until she started running for president."
Obama campaign mailer in Ohio: "Hillary Clinton believed NAFTA was a 'boon' to our economy," and "Only Barack Obama consistently opposed NAFTA."
THE FACTS:
Obama has been consistently ambivalent.
In his 2004 Senate campaign, he said the U.S. should pursue more deals such as NAFTA, and argued more broadly that his opponent's call for tariffs would spark a trade war. AP reported then that the Illinois senator had spoken of enormous benefits having accrued to his state from NAFTA, while adding that he also called for more aggressive trade protections for U.S. workers.
"We need free trade but also fair trade," he said, taking the dodge.
Obama is correct that Clinton has praised NAFTA in various ways, but he leaves out the qualifications she's expressed along the way.
And she did not say NAFTA was a "boon," as the mailer states on its ominous cover, depicting a locked factory gate. "Boon" was a newspaper's characterization of her position, which is reprinted inside the mailer.
Posted by: LBH
| February 27, 2008 2:21 PM
Hey Neil keep pushing that McCain lobbist scandal, it really seems to be working, not!
McCain Seen As Strongest Leader
By California Yankee
A new Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll finds Senator McCain is seen as the "strongest leader," that he has the "best experience," and is better able to fight terrorism and deal with the situation in Iraq:
When compared to either Democrat, McCain is rated as the "strongest leader." He easily outpaces both when voters are asked who has the "right experience to be president," beating Obama by 31 points and Clinton by 12.
This is the second poll in two days showing Senator McCain ahead of either Democratic nominee:
In head-to-head contests, the poll found, McCain leads Clinton by 6 percentage points (46% to 40%) and Obama by 2 points (44% to 42%).
The result could be called a statistical tie because it is within the poll's ±3 percent margin of error. Yesterday, Gallup reported similar polling results.
The Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll also found McCain is viewed favorably by 61% of all registered voters, including a plurality of Democrats. He even beats Obama on being best able to handle the economy, 42% to 34%.
The poll was conducted February 21-25.
Posted by: LBH
| February 27, 2008 2:41 PM
Politics of fear?
Zell Sees Start of Housing Recovery in the Spring
Sectors:Construction and MaterialsBy CNBC.com | 26 Feb 2008
The US economy will avoid recession as the housing market begins to recover this spring, according to billionaire investor Sam Zell.
Speaking on "Squawk Box" this morning, Zell attributed much of the current economic troubles to fear-mongering and politicking by Democratic presidential contenders Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama.
"Obviously what we have going on is an attempt to create a self-fulfilling prophecy," said Zell, chairman of Equity Investments Group and owner of the Chicago Cubs, Chicago Tribune, Los Angeles Times and other companies. "We have two Democratic candidates who are vying with each other to describe the economic situation worse.
"The reality is that if you live on Wall Street and you're in the credit markets the world couldn't be worse. If you're a farmer and you're getting $25 for your wheat, you're having a great time. If you're a CEO and you've got a balance sheet that's bullet-proof, you're in a great position. This whole thing is way out of control, way out of hand."
Posted by: LBH
| February 27, 2008 2:45 PM
Except that local farmers are receiving 'only' about $15 per bushel for their wheat.
Posted by: David B. Benson
| February 27, 2008 2:57 PM
There once was a man named McCain
Who had the whole White House to gain,
But he was quite a hobbyist
Of boning his lobbyists,
So much for his ’08 campaign.
~ Stephan Colbert.
Posted by: capt
| February 27, 2008 3:33 PM
Bill Cunningham says McCain campaign told him to throw out the Red Meat during intro.
Cunningham: His people told me to give the faithful red meat. Give them red—raw—meat.
Versus:
Mr. McCain held a scheduled news conference and immediately addressed the comments, evidently informed about them by his aides. (NYT’s)
Posted by: capt
| February 27, 2008 3:54 PM
The thing about Hillary that's starting to show is that she is not as post hormonal as she would like us to believe. Her temperament changes daily, she complains way too much about everyone picking on her, and when its time for her to quit she won't know how to back up.
I say this in jest. She is on the A list of the 300 million Americans I would like to see replace the shrubbery at the white house.
I am glad to see Corn taking comments again, its been a while since I checked.
Posted by: geof01
| February 27, 2008 4:48 PM
Obama has been unflappable. He seems to have presidential demeanor. Communication is a skill set and he has more than just oratory and charisma, he is diplomatic and calm and assertive (Anybody watch the Dog Whisperer?)
I think he can take that to the world stage and America can be proud. I hope he lives up to 10% of his potential .
I am not optimistic about the future. There are some hard times ahead. No politician, party or ideology can save us from ourselves. We are still feeling the effects of some of the insane policies started decades ago. Much more coming down that pike. We will have the dreaded incumbents and some real losers of all stripes.
Maybe a new direction and a real leader. . .
Who knows - if things get better - even on the margins I could feel optimistic. I will wait for the good things to actually come, elections are always filled with promises for tomorrow.
I have a very real concern that we haven't hit rock bottom yet, although seems darn close.
Sooner or later, nowhere to go but up.
Then again BHO could be one of those transformational figures - If he can get Americans to do and be their best again - we are an unstoppable force - we have squandered our greatness as a nation on a failed policy of preemption. Will we redeem ourselves?
Posted by: capt
| February 27, 2008 5:08 PM
Why Health Insurance Doesn't Work
It is actually against their interest for insurers to compete on giving us the best care. It's not simply that they're not doing it, but given the structure of the marketplace, they shouldn't do it.
*****
Mandates, scmandates - only Kucinich spoke to the issue of for profit insurance.
Posted by: capt
| February 27, 2008 5:32 PM
I am not optimistic about the future. There are some hard times ahead.
~~~~
Wow! How bleak the world must be for progressives that they need a political leader to lift them up.
Hard times ahead, tell that to my grandmother who raised 6 kids during the depression. You trolls don't know what hard times are.
Posted by: LBH
| February 27, 2008 5:37 PM
LBH --- Count yourself among the trolls.
Count yourself among those who don't know what hard times are.
Yet.
Posted by: David B. Benson
| February 27, 2008 5:46 PM
"Brother, Can You Spare a Dime," lyrics by Yip Harburg, music by Jay Gorney (1931)
They used to tell me I was building a dream, and so I followed the mob,
When there was earth to plow, or guns to bear, I was always there right on the job.
They used to tell me I was building a dream, with peace and glory ahead,
Why should I be standing in line, just waiting for bread?
Once I built a railroad, I made it run, made it race against time.
Once I built a railroad; now it's done. Brother, can you spare a dime?
Once I built a tower, up to the sun, brick, and rivet, and lime;
Once I built a tower, now it's done. Brother, can you spare a dime?
Once in khaki suits, gee we looked swell,
Full of that Yankee Doodly Dum,
Half a million boots went slogging through Hell,
And I was the kid with the drum!
Say, don't you remember, they called me Al; it was Al all the time.
Why don't you remember, I'm your pal? Buddy, can you spare a dime?
Once in khaki suits, gee we looked swell,
Full of that Yankee Doodly Dum,
Half a million boots went slogging through Hell,
And I was the kid with the drum!
Say, don't you remember, they called me Al; it was Al all the time.
Say, don't you remember, I'm your pal? Buddy, can you spare a dime?
"Life is Just a Bowl of Cherries," lyrics by Lew Brown, music by Ray Henderson (1931)
People are queer, they're always crowing, scrambling and rushing about;
Why don't they stop someday, address themselves this way?
Why are we here? Where are we going? It's time that we found out.
We're not here to stay; we're on a short holiday.
Life is just a bowl of cherries.
Don't take it serious; it's too mysterious.
You work, you save, you worry so,
But you can't take your dough when you go, go, go.
So keep repeating it's the berries,
The strongest oak must fall,
The sweet things in life, to you were just loaned
So how can you lose what you've never owned?
Life is just a bowl of cherries,
So live and laugh at it all.
Life is just a bowl of cherries.
Don't take it serious; it's too mysterious.
At eight each morning I have got a date,
To take my plunge 'round the Empire State.
You'll admit it's not the berries,
In a building that's so tall;
There's a guy in the show, the girls love to kiss;
Get thousands a week just for crooning like this:
Life is just a bowl of . . . aw, nuts!
So live and laugh at it all!
"We're in the Money," lyrics by Al Dubin, music by Harry Warren (from the film Gold Diggers of 1933, 1933)
We're in the money, we're in the money;
We've got a lot of what it takes to get along!
We're in the money, that sky is sunny,
Old Man Depression you are through, you done us wrong.
We never see a headline about breadlines today.
And when we see the landlord we can look that guy right in the eye
We're in the money, come on, my honey,
Let's lend it, spend it, send it rolling along!
Oh, yes we're in the money, you bet we're in the money,
We've got a lot of what it takes to get along!
Let's go we're in the money, Look up the skies are sunny,
Old Man Depression you are through, you done us wrong.
We never see a headline about breadlines today.
And when we see the landlord we can look that guy right in the eye
We're in the money, come on, my honey,
Let's lend it, spend it, send it rolling along!
-T
Posted by: Hajji
| February 27, 2008 5:53 PM
Tears and prayers as Khmer Rouge 'torturer' is taken back to the Killing Fields
Twice he stopped and twice he fell to his knees, hands clasped in tearful prayer for the terrible crimes committed three decades ago.
*****
I wonder where our Pol Pot will face justice and will our torturers fall to their knees and weep in a few decades.
The hard times I was speaking to is the fact that we as a country have to own up to the war crimes and crimes against humanity that have made us into an aggressor nation.
No reason to involve family members. That kind of departs from meaningful into the anecdotal unless I’m missing something.
Posted by: capt
| February 27, 2008 5:56 PM
capt --- Yes, we need to own up. Hopefully jails the perps.
However, global warming now, peak oil now, then peak coal about 2025 with even more global warming, seems quite certain to bring about economic very hard times.
Checked the price of gasoline? The price of heating your house? The price of food in the grocery store?
Hard times ahead...
Posted by: David B. Benson
| February 27, 2008 6:03 PM
LBH --- Count yourself among the trolls.
Count yourself among those who don't know what hard times are.
Yet.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How would you know?
I servived one failed business that almost cost me everything only to dig myself out of the hole with starting another successful business.
I was willing to risk everything to be part of the American dream and the risk was worth it.
Instead of whining about how bleak my future was going to be I went out and got two jobs and worked 7 days a week for three years until I came out of that hole.
All this with a wife who can't work do to medical problems and three kids. We also were able to maintain medical coverage for the family paid for out of my pocket. I could have opted for our state medical plan but the coverage is lousy and I would rather be able to choose my own doctors.
And ya know what, Obama wasn't there to inspire me or provide universal health coverage and everyhting was OK.
If you can't inspire yourself then how is a politician going to do it?
Posted by: LBH
| February 27, 2008 6:05 PM
Obama does strike an inspiring image of true leadership.
Hillary can't be counted out yet. When the DNC decides on Florida and Michigan she will be about even. Florida and Michigan must be seated and counted. Including my vote for Kucinich. The DNC is chickinscratch for not coming to terms with our state leaders before the elections and for not allowing us to be counted now.
This is good. Until this is decided the best of Obama and Hillary are in our face daily.
McCain has to deal with his own devils. His one face tells him to show patience and compromise like he learned in the Navy while serving in Hanoi. His other face has to turn and puke after following his opening act of the day. His one face says no to torture, having been there and having been detained for a year less than some captives at Gitmo. His other face says ignore it as a necessary strategy of war. His one face holds contempt for the way Rove took him down in 2000, and the other face planted a big kiss on the pope's ass in the Garden in 2004.
I would say it's a close match on who is more post-menopausal, McCain or Clinton. MSNBC - count the hot flashes!
Posted by: geof01
| February 27, 2008 6:09 PM
"Injustice is relatively easy to bear; what stings is justice."
~ H. L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Posted by: capt
| February 27, 2008 6:10 PM
I wonder where our Pol Pot will face justice and will our torturers fall to their knees and weep in a few decades.
~~~~~
That's rediculous!
So you're saying that we murdered 1.7 million people from torture? LOL
Posted by: LBH
| February 27, 2008 6:10 PM
"it's a close match on who is more post-menopausal, McCain or Clinton"
lolololo
Posted by: capt
| February 27, 2008 6:11 PM
Global Warming? Are you sure?
Blog: Science
Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling
Michael Asher (Blog) - February 26, 2008 12:55 PM
World Temperatures according to the Hadley Center for Climate Prediction. Note the steep drop over the last year.Twelve-month long drop in world temperatures wipes out a century of warming
Over the past year, anecdotal evidence for a cooling planet has exploded. China has its coldest winter in 100 years. Baghdad sees its first snow in all recorded history. North America has the most snowcover in 50 years, with places like Wisconsin the highest since record-keeping began. Record levels of Antarctic sea ice, record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile -- the list goes on and on.
No more than anecdotal evidence, to be sure. But now, that evidence has been supplanted by hard scientific fact. All four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA's GISS, UAH, RSS) have released updated data. All show that over the past year, global temperatures have dropped precipitously.
A compiled list of all the sources can be seen here. The total amount of cooling ranges from 0.65C up to 0.75C -- a value large enough to wipe out nearly all the warming recorded over the past 100 years. All in one year's time. For all four sources, it's the single fastest temperature change ever recorded, either up or down.
Scientists quoted in a past DailyTech article link the cooling to reduced solar activity which they claim is a much larger driver of climate change than man-made greenhouse gases. The dramatic cooling seen in just 12 months time seems to bear that out. While the data doesn't itself disprove that carbon dioxide is acting to warm the planet, it does demonstrate clearly that more powerful factors are now cooling it.
Posted by: LBH
| February 27, 2008 6:13 PM
LBH my grandfather raised 13 kids and drove a truck. My other grandfather had 4 kids go to college and had a maid and gardener during the depression. One was a teamster agent and quit just in time to have Hoffa blow the porch off the next guys house. The other was a republican, a rotarian and a mason.
My health insurance is gone on Friday. I'm not in the profit zone for them. BCBS is trying to get Michigan to declare a new class of people - pre-seniors; those between 55 and 65 that cost them more and should pay more.
I've worked 7 days a week for the last 30 years. I've been up and down like a friggin toaster. So what?
My grandfathers inspired me. You inspire me. I inspire myself sometimes. But Obama, a politician inspires me as person who can lead our country, not like one who drags it around the playground lookin to give it another lickin.
Posted by: geof01
| February 27, 2008 6:21 PM
My grandfathers inspired me. You inspire me. I inspire myself sometimes. But Obama, a politician inspires me as person who can lead our country, not like one who drags it around the playground lookin to give it another lickin.
~~~~~~
I would agree with that but don't agree with Capts view of Obama the Messiah.
By the way isn't Michigan supposed to be the the liberal mecca of the US?
By Rich Lowry
Liberals dissatisfied with the Bush economy have, through the wonders of federalism, an alternative. They can move to Michigan. The state represents a rough approximation of ideal liberal economic policy. It is heavily unionized, taxed, and regulated in a failed attempt to close its eyes to the dynamic forces of the market and globalization all around it.
This stew has helped make Michigan the economic sick man of the Midwest. It is suffering from a one-state recession all its own, mostly because it has failed to foster the most profound economic force in the universe — opportunity. The state has been losing out to more business-friendly environs both overseas and in other states for decades, but has refused to adapt accordingly.
Posted by: LBH
| February 27, 2008 6:34 PM
Obama also has news for McCain
Obama departed from his regular stump speech today in Columbus to respond to John McCain.
"John McCain may like to say he wants to follow Osama bin Laden to the gates of Hell, but so far all he’s done is follow George Bush into a misguided war in Iraq," he said.
****
The phrase “in a nutshell” comes to mind.
Posted by: capt
| February 27, 2008 6:34 PM
LBH my grandfather raised 13 kids and drove a truck. My other grandfather had 4 kids go to college and had a maid and gardener during the depression. One was a teamster agent and quit just in time to have Hoffa blow the porch off the next guys house. The other was a republican, a rotarian and a mason.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
You have a very interesting family history and sound like someone with alot of life experiences.
Posted by: LBH
| February 27, 2008 6:40 PM
"John McCain may like to say he wants to follow Osama bin Laden to the gates of Hell, but so far all he’s done is follow George Bush into a misguided war in Iraq," he said
Got to give it to him that was smooth~
However his answer on this question from Russert on going back into Iraq as well as the Russian question was quite evasive and lacking any details. But hey, if all you care about is being inspired then he's your man.
Posted by: LBH
| February 27, 2008 6:47 PM
from the link:
"McCain thought that he could make a clever point by saying, 'Well let me give you some news, Barack, Al Qaeda is in Iraq,' like I wasn’t reading the papers, like didn’t know what was going on." Obama said, leaning into his developing McCain impression.
He then described the context -- a hypothetical question from Tim Russert -- and said, "First of all, I do know Al Qaeda is in Iraq, and that’s why I said we should continue to strike Al Qaeda targets."
"I have some news for John McCain," Obama continued, "That’s there was no Al Qaeda in Iraq until George Bush and John McCain" began the Iraq war, he said.
"They took their eye off the people who really were responsible for 9/11," he said.
This is the core terrain of an Obama-McCain general election: McCain attacks Obama's readiness to lead; Obama links him, Bush, and the war.
****
BHO handles the insane GOP talking point hypotheticals with class.
Posted by: capt
| February 27, 2008 6:49 PM
If BHO is the nominee he will be just as effective against McCain on many more issues.
Poor John.
If you lay down with fleas . . . .
Posted by: capt
| February 27, 2008 6:52 PM
BHO doesn't even have to connect McCain to the war McCain did that already. Whoop's!
Posted by: capt
| February 27, 2008 6:55 PM
Too be honest, I really don't care who becomes President even if it's Nader. My life will not be effected by whoever it is just as it hasn't since Bush has been President.
The economy goes in cycles every eight years and will recover just about the time whoever wins the Whitehouse and then they will claim credit.
However, if the next President doesn't stop the out of control federal spending that has been going on for decades then we are all doomed no matter how much happy speech our next President has the ability to produce.
Posted by: LBH
| February 27, 2008 6:57 PM
Hey Capt,
Are you a paid shill for Obama now?
Posted by: LBH
| February 27, 2008 7:01 PM
Generals to quit if US strikes Iran
Some senior US military commanders are prepared to resign if President Bush orders a military strike against Iran, a new report says.
“There are four or five generals and admirals we know of who would resign if Bush ordered an attack on Iran,” The Sunday Times quoted Monday a source with close ties to British intelligence .
“There is simply no stomach for it in the Pentagon, and a lot of people question whether such an attack would be effective or even possible,” the source added.
If proven true a revolt on such a scale would be unprecedented because 'American generals usually stay and fight until they get fired,” said a Pentagon source.
****
Thanks goodness for the real patriots and honorable men. They are American heroes.
Posted by: capt
| February 27, 2008 7:02 PM
"quite evasive "
I just posted the balance of his remarks.
Not evasive.
No surprise.
If you want to be taken seriously you have to stop the ad hominem and the silly insults.
You just sound unteathered.
Posted by: capt
| February 27, 2008 7:04 PM
Senate Advances Bill to Cut War Funding
WASHINGTON (AP) — Senate Republicans agreed Tuesday to advance a bill that would cut off money for Iraq, saying the additional debating time would allow them to tout progress there.
Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell said the debate will "give us a chance to talk about the extraordinary progress that's been made in Iraq over the last six months, not only on the military side, but also with civilian reconciliation beginning to finally take hold in the country."
The Senate voted 70-24 to advance the bill past a procedural hurdle and begin debating it in earnest. A final vote was expected later this week or next week.
****
Talk about wasted money we need. Bush has had a very expensive hobby that we all have been paying for, let’s hope the next president has less costly pastimes, eh?
Posted by: capt
| February 27, 2008 7:08 PM
I just posted the balance of his remarks.
The balance of his remarks are evasive, he did not answer the question.
No surprise.
Keep up the shill~~
Posted by: LBH
| February 27, 2008 7:17 PM
If you want to be taken seriously you have to stop the ad hominem and the silly insults.
Why would I care if you take me seriously? I am only here to express my freedom of speech. Have a nice day!
Posted by: LBH
| February 27, 2008 7:27 PM
Gitmo Trials Rigged from the Start
Secret evidence. Denial of habeas corpus. Evidence obtained by waterboarding. Indefinite detention. The litany of complaints about the legal treatment of prisoners at Guantánamo Bay is long, disturbing and by now familiar. Nonetheless, a new wave of shock and criticism greeted the Pentagon's announcement on February 11 that it was charging six Guantánamo detainees, including alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, with war crimes -- and seeking the death penalty for all of them.
As the murky, quasi-legal staging of the Bush Administration's military commissions unfolds, a key official has told The Nation that the trials are rigged from the start. According to Col. Morris Davis, former chief prosecutor for Guantánamo's military commissions, the process has been manipulated by Administration appointees in an attempt to foreclose the possibility of acquittal.
****
Americans used to scream about Soviet style show trials now we call them our own. Dude, where’s my country?
Posted by: capt
| February 27, 2008 7:28 PM
Thanks
Posted by: capt
| February 27, 2008 7:30 PM
McCain Rated As America’s Worst Senator For Children
Today, the Children’s Defense Fund Action Council released its 2007 Nonpartisan Congressional Scorecard. CDF reports some positive news, particularly that average scores for members of Congress “improved from the previous three years with more Members scoring 100 percent than in 2004, 2005 or 2006.”
Many, however, did not fare so well. Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) received a 10 percent rating — the worst in the U.S. Senate.
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Worst in the senate is the best the GOPhers have to offer?
Posted by: capt
| February 27, 2008 8:38 PM
Children don't vote.
Posted by: David B. Benson
| February 27, 2008 8:45 PM
Children don't vote.
It's too bad, the world would be such a different place.
Anyways, I just got my "I Voted Early!" sticker.
Posted by: eyes_open
| February 27, 2008 9:52 PM
"Children don't vote"
But they will be paying for Bush's occupation of Iraq if they survive, have a job and pay their taxes. Every dollar of deficit spending is a cost we pass on to the next year, the next generation.
Posted by: capt
| February 27, 2008 10:17 PM
McCain retracts comment he could lose on Iraq
CINCINNATI (Reuters) - Republican presidential front-runner John McCain Monday retracted his earlier statement he would lose the November election if he did not convince Americans they were winning the war in Iraq.
"I don't mean that I'll, quote, lose," McCain told reporters on his campaign bus. "I mean that it's an important issue in the judgment of the American voters."
"It's not often I retract a comment," said the likely Republican nominee.
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Hundreds of millions of dollars - the best advisors and aides - the guy is running for leader of the free world and he has to pretend nobody knew who was speaking to warm up the crowd? That his staff told the guy to put out some raw red meat.
Disgusting.
Posted by: capt
| February 27, 2008 10:39 PM
'John McSame': Meet Bush's Anti-Choice Clone
[…]
Pro-choice Americans haven't yet pegged McCain as the extreme anti-choice copy of George W. Bush he is. For close watchers of pro-choice politics though, he's John McSame.
In fact, the Straight Talk Express has skidded off the road that most Americans drive. He is more extreme than even some who consider themselves "pro-life." For example, most Americans would be stunned to learn McCain won't -- or can't -- say whether he even supports the right to use contraception. Last March, according to the New York Times, McCain fumbled through this exchange about contraception with a reporter aboard his campaign bus;
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John McShame being pegged by pro-choice Americans?
Too effin funny - ask Pandemoniac.
Posted by: capt
| February 27, 2008 10:57 PM
She is toast, get over it! And soon the real insults will take place. I have written a story for the right. It follows:
Responsible tax cutting and some questions for the Right
Is not one of the fundamental principals of modern conservatism that we must work? Got to work before we get paid? Get a job motherfucker. No giveaways, welfare is bad? Shouldn’t we approach tax cutting and government spending the same way? Cutting spending is work don’t you agree? (so hard in fact it never seems to get done) Tax cuts are the payoff, (I want some money). Cutting spending requires consensus (sometimes referred to as compromise), tax cuts only require a signature (where do I sign)? Establishing spending priorities is tough stuff. Giving a tax cut is really easy, almost like a giveaway to anyone who will take it and vote.
Do you want to take the easy way out?
Do you ever get paid before you work?
Do you want tax cuts before we cut spending and get out of debt?
Do you want to wage a fighting war on credit?
Do you think corporations will grow us out of debt?
If your answer is yes to at least two of these questions then you my friend are a modern conservative. You want the money before you do the work. You want to win the war without really fighting. Your aim may actually be to bankrupt the government.
What in the fuck are you thinking about?
Are you really conservative?
Or are you just a conservative?
“I like the small black marks on my hand, I’m a conservative”~ Iggy Pop-Soldier.
http://uncledad.org/blog/
Posted by: uncledad
| February 28, 2008 12:17 AM
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