David Corn

I fail to see any real signs of success in Iraq. A temporary lul in hostilities is not a sign of success. I wish the MSM and the pundits stop saying that it goes well.

Iraq's hostilities will cease just about the day the GOP gives a damn about America's poor.

I think the only "success" coming from Iraq is the complete control of the news coming out of Iraq.

The MSM parroting the success of the surge based on headcounts is an insult to anybody that remembers the many successes from the many escalations in Vietnam. We really kicked butt by the headcounts back then.

UGH.

All polls show that the great majority of Iraqis want Americans out.

So do I...

I think the only "success" coming from Iraq is the complete control of the news coming out of Iraq.

"I think the 'surge' is working," Mr. Murtha, a Democrat, said in a video conference from his Johnstown office, describing the president's decision to commit nearly 30,000 additional troops at the beginning of the year.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hmmm, is Murtha in complete control of the news coming out of Iraq?

Corn, great post on McCain and Romney in Michigan. FL and SC are likely to favor McCain over Romney in spite of the narrative you framedm abd I agree with. Huck is in the mix too, with his affirmative theocratic message for Amerika. This one could go to the wire. Let's hope it does, and let's hope Huck or Romney prevail.

http://icasualties.org/oif/default.aspx

The chart shows that the average number of coalition forces (American plus other) killed per day during the surge has been higher than at any other time during this war except for the six week period of the invasion.

Murtha Comments on the Iraq Surge

For Immediate Release
November 30, 2007

(Washington D.C.)- Congressman John P. Murtha, Chairman of the House Appropriations Subcommittee on Defense, issued the following statement today following his visit last week to Iraq:

“The military surge has created a window of opportunity for the Iraqi Government. Unfortunately, the sacrifice of our troops has not been met by the Iraqi Government and they have failed to capitalize on the political and diplomatic steps that the surge was designed to provide.

“The fact remains that the war in Iraq cannot be won militarily, and that we must begin an orderly redeployment of U.S. forces from Iraq as soon as practicable.”

“The House of Representatives has passed a $50 billion funding bill that provides the President, our troops, and our nation with a responsible plan for bringing our troops home. The President should heed the advice of the American people and allow this funding bill to become law.”

Why is it so hard for you lefties to accept the fact that Murtha has finally told the truth that the surge is working?

If the surge wasn't a success it would be the number one topic of discussion among the Democratic debates.

Were winning in Iraq which is why it's no longer the number one concern among voters and why the Dems are getting no traction with it.

It takes a real man to admit when he's been so wrong. Murtha had the balls to do it, how bout you?

The surge had a clear and defined objective – to create stability and security - enabling the Iraqi government to enact lasting political solutions and foster genuine reconciliation and cooperation between Sunnis, Shias, and Kurds.

This has not happened.

from: HERE

Wexler is an idiot who has never been to Iraq or served in the military.

Murtha has done both and has more balls than all you cry babies combined! He says the surge is working and I believe him.

So:

The surge had a clear and defined objective – to create stability and security - enabling the Iraqi government to enact lasting political solutions and foster genuine reconciliation and cooperation between Sunnis, Shias, and Kurds.

This has happened?

Delusional doesn't begin to describe, , , ,

If you believe Murtha:

“The military surge has created a window of opportunity for the Iraqi Government. Unfortunately, the sacrifice of our troops has not been met by the Iraqi Government and they have failed to capitalize on the political and diplomatic steps that the surge was designed to provide.

“The fact remains that the war in Iraq cannot be won militarily, and that we must begin an orderly redeployment of U.S. forces from Iraq as soon as practicable.”

“The House of Representatives has passed a $50 billion funding bill that provides the President, our troops, and our nation with a responsible plan for bringing our troops home. The President should heed the advice of the American people and allow this funding bill to become law.”

*****

So you agree?

Capt, I don't remember which thread it was on but I already tried to debate that same exact Murtha thing with LBH. Of course he just went around in circles and ignored any other quotes which disproved him. I think he's just hoping enough time has passed for noone to remember so he can pull the same crap again. He's not even pretending to be the opposition voice anymore, he's devolved into a common troll.

"he's devolved into a common troll"

And not even a serious one at that.

Capt,

I believe your Murtha's quotes are from 11/30/07, after he had been woodsheded by Nancy Pelosi for his remarks on 11/29/07 that were unqualified support.

Tom

Capt wants to quote everything Murtha said after being woodsheded by Pelosi but just can't bring himself to quote the very words Murtha used "The surge is working".

This would be a lie of omission to support a pathetic view that the surge isn't working. He would rather believe a nut job like Wexler who's never had the balls to go to Iraq himself than the person who has been there (Murtha).

Nice!

You would make a good politician Capt.

The only one lying by ommision here is LBH. It would be funny if not so pathetic.
Murtha finds military progress in trip to Iraq
Warns that Iraqis must do more for their own security
Thursday, November 29, 2007
By Jerome L. Sherman, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
WASHINGTON - U.S. Rep. John Murtha today said he saw signs of military progress during a brief trip to Iraq last week, but he warned that Iraqis need to play a larger role in providing their own security and the Bush administration still must develop an exit strategy.

"I think the 'surge' is working," the Democrat said in a videoconference from his Johnstown office, describing the president's decision to commit more than 20,000 additional combat troops this year. But the Iraqis "have got to take care of themselves."

Violence has dropped significantly in recent months, but Mr. Murtha said he was most encouraged by changes in the once-volatile Anbar province, where locals have started working closely with U.S. forces to isolate insurgents linked to Al Qaeda.

He said Iraqis need to duplicate that success at the national level, but the central government in Baghdad is "dysfunctional."
Tomcantu, as you can see by this more complete account Murtha did qualify his statement from the beginning, the LBHs of the media just focus on one part and ignore the rest. What he said the next day was a clarification to that nuanced qualification, not a new response after being "woodsheded by Nancy Pelosi".

Eyes closed

I've said all along, as well as every other supporter of the surge, that the Iraqi national government is dysfunctional. This does not dis-qualify the military success of the surge, which needs to take place before the government can produce any of it's requirements. The military success has produced local government, economic and infrastructure successes that are non-debatable.

The Dems in congress realize this which is why anti-war groups have given up with pushing a withdrawl date. ~~~~

Anti-war groups retreat on funding fight

By: Ryan Grim
Jan 17, 2008 06:03 AM EST

After a series of legislative defeats in 2007 that saw the year end with more U.S. troops in Iraq than when it began, a coalition of anti-war groups is backing away from its multimillion-dollar drive to cut funding for the war and force Congress to pass timelines for bringing U.S. troops home.

The Kool Aid is getting cloudy in lefty land.

McCains stance on the war is why he is leading in head to head polls vs Dems in General.

The failed policy of cut and surrender by you lefties is obvious to the average voter as the success of the surge continues and the leading dem authority on the war, Murtha, is saying the surge is working.

LBH, this is the last time I or hopefully anyone will take the time to spell it out for you. The reduction in violence is not the ultimate goal of the surge. That is only a step to political reconciliation. As long as the Iraqi government refuses to work things out, the surge can only be considred a futile effort. Only in your contrarian world can a futile effort be viewed as a success.
Oh, and trying to counter the rebuttal of a lie by ommision by trying another missdirection by ommision?
Anti-war groups retreat on funding fight
In recognition of hard political reality, the groups instead will lower their sights and push for legislation to prevent President Bush from entering into a long-term agreement with the Iraqi government that could keep significant numbers of troops in Iraq for years to come.
...
AAEI will have a budget roughly as large as it had last year, Mack said, and the new focus should be seen as an addition to its strategy, rather than as a retreat from a previous position. “Clearly, folks continue to oppose any more money for the war, and that was discussed as well. Our groups are still going to actively oppose any more funding,” she said.
Anti-war groups are not giving up as your one snip out of context would lead one to believe. They are adapting to the current political realities and refocusing their goals.

The Corpse on the Gurney: The ‘Success’ Mantra in Iraq

[...]

Dancing on a Corpse

So, here’s a simple reality check: The whole discussion of, and argument about, “success” in Iraq is, in fact, obscene. Given what has already happened to that country — and will continue to happen as long as the U.S. remains an occupying power there — the very category of “success” is an obscenity. If violence actually does stay down there, that may be a modest godsend for Iraqis, but it can hardly be considered a sign of American “success.”

Every now and then, history comes in handy. In a previous moment, when the neocons and their allied pundits were feeling particularly triumphant, they began touting Bush’s America as the planet’s new Rome (only more so). That talk evaporated once Iraq went into full-scale insurgency mode (and Afghanistan followed). But perhaps Rome does remain a touchstone of a sort for administration Iraqi policies.

*******

Woodshed or not I provided the complete position from Murtha’s website.

If you want to be taken seriously post the complete quote from Murtha from before the woodshed?

You will find the clip you are using is deceptive, incomplete and does not support your position but as always you are too pathetic to offer more so . . . .

Thanks

He said Iraqis need to duplicate that success at the national level, but the central government in Baghdad is "dysfunctional."

None so blind as trolls that will not see.

If you want to hang your hat on what Murtha says, maybe you should first take back orevious comments that Murtha was a traitor?

Just a thought.

"I never cease being dumbfounded by the unbelievable things people believe."

~ Leo Rosten (1908 - )

Opium fields spread across Iraq as farmers try to make ends meet

The cultivation of opium poppies whose product is turned into heroin is spreading rapidly across Iraq as farmers find they can no longer make a living through growing traditional crops.

Afghan with experience in planting poppies have been helping farmers switch to producing opium in fertile parts of Diyala province, once famous for its oranges and pomegranates, north- east of Baghdad.

*****

The surge in opium poppies is real.

Something substantial in the way of a win, eh?

Army Chief Of Staff: "The Surge Has Sucked All Of The Flexibility Out Of The System"
Wall Street Journal | January 17, 2008 02

Defense Secretary Robert Gates has said he hopes to see the U.S. military presence fall below 130,000 by the end of 2008, a position shared by many senior Pentagon commanders who worry the high troop levels in Iraq are causing growing manpower strains on the army.

"The surge has sucked all of the flexibility out of the system," Army Chief of Staff George Casey said in an interview this week. "And we need to find a way of getting back into balance."

But President Bush made clear this week that additional troop withdrawals were far from a sure thing.
____________________

Success, indeed.

Murtha: Surge working; Iraqis aren't

[…]

This afternoon, Murtha sought to clarify his remarks still further.
"The military part has awlays been something that we knew we could accomplish," he told CNN's Wolf Blitzer. "Now, we recommended several years ago they needed more troops, not only in Iraq, but in the military as a whole. But the Iraqi government has not stepped up."

He also addressed speculation that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi had asked him to get back on message.

"i haven't talked to Nancy about it all," he said.

*****

Whoop’s, if we take Murtha at his word there was no woodshed. No talking with Nancy and no real success.

So, I assume the troll agrees with Murtha.

That is unless the troll cannot stand by his words?

The word troll is sooo juvenile, but whatever.

You ijits are the only fools spewing the surge isn't working crap! If the surge is such a failure then why haven't the Dems brought the troops home as promised? Why have the Dems voted consistanly to fund the war at every step? Why isn't the media reporting any news in Iraq now that it is positive?

Because as Murtha said-" The Surge Is Working"

The polictical process will follow. Afterall, you expect the Iraqis to have a fully functional democracy after hundreds of years of authoritarian rule. Hell, the Dems in congress have achived less in the last year than the Iraqis have. Maybe we should have a surge in congress.

Hey Haji,

Glad to see you reading a conservative paper now instead of quoting wack job progressive web sites. Heck, you might learn something instead of being brainwashed.

The surge in opium poppies is real.

Something substantial in the way of a win, eh?

WEAK!

“The House of Representatives has passed a $50 billion funding bill that provides the President, our troops, and our nation with a responsible plan for bringing our troops home. The President should heed the advice of the American people and allow this funding bill to become law.”

*****

So you agree?

No, and neither do the Dems who voted for the bill Bush wanted with no time lines.

It's called politics, and the Dems lost on this one.

"The President should heed the advice of the American people and allow this funding bill to become law"

Silly boi, why do you assume I don't agree?

If you want to hang your hat on what Murtha says, maybe you should first take back orevious comments that Murtha was a traitor?

Just a thought.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

I only agree with Murthas view that the surge is working, since he's been there and seen the progress. I do not agree with his calling the troops of Haditha murderers when they were aquited and are suing him for defamation. I do not agree with him when it comes to being the biggest pork barrel spender in congress.

Just because someone supports a position doesn't mean you have to support everything they do. Unlike you lefties that fawn over the Dems, I have principals and don't agree with everything Bush or the Repubs do. This is why I like McCain, because he's the only politician to put his country over politics.

This is why I like McCain, because he's the only politician to put his country over politics.

And is also why he's beating all Dems in the Gen elec polls~

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

" I only agree with Murthas view that the surge is working

Well, no kidding, that is the point - selective agreement. Weaker than weak.

I could clip a sentence that Bush has said that I could agree with - out of context and incomplete.

It is just not the basis for meaningfull discussion - that is my point.

I could care less what Mutrtha says I will side with reality - put that where it will inform you best.

Thanks

Eyes Closed

Anti-war groups are not giving up as your one snip out of context would lead one to believe. They are adapting to the current political realities and refocusing their goals.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And why is that? Because they FAILED! After sepending millions of progressive voters money, they FAILED!

Seems like a pretty good idea to change tatics after bankrupting the progressive movement.

McCain will win?

Nothing will surprise me.

So what? Again that is suppose to be a meaningful point? It is a prediction - so what?

I remember LBH predicting a GOP landslide in 2006? I bet you are as prescient today as then.

NBD

I will side with reality

What reality?

That violence is down 70%? That causlties are down 70% That the majority of Iraqis are moving back after being in exile? That the economy is coming back strong and people are shopping in down town Bagdad? That kids are going to school now? That the so called civil war has come to a halt? That Al Queda is almost a non threat? That people can vote freely in Iraq?

Oh wait, the reality that the national government hasn't agreeded on oil revenues. Boy that's just horrible.

I hear Ron Paul is going to win.

I doubt it but if a politician can get more votes (legally or not) they will win.

After two terms of Bunnypants - nothing will surprise me.

I remember LBH predicting a GOP landslide in 2006? I bet you are as prescient today as then.

Wrong, I was on record hoping the GOP lose to clean up the corruption and spending like drunk democrats.

I'm not predicting McCain will win, I am just stating fact that he leads in the polls and the only thing he has to run on is the support of the surge.

I believe Hillary will steal the election and you lefties will finally get what you deserve ~ a "real" corrupt White House with unlimited powers that will make Bush look like a minor league player.

You are only making a fool of yourself.

Iraq is only a success when the troop have come home, not before.

Read more on the subject - here is a primer:

Less Violent But Not Less Hellish

Your opinion doesn't amount to a hill of beans next to the facts.

Thanks

Informed Comment

[…]

I am often struck by how clueless the American public is to the vast destruction we have wrought on Iraq and its people, directly or indirectly. It strikes me as a bitter joke that 4 million are displaced, often facing hunger and disease, and the rightwing periodicals and presidential candidates are talking about how the "surge" has "turned things around." For whom? How many orphans have we created? How many widows? How many people who weep and cry every night while trying to fall asleep on straw mats? I estimate on the basis of a UN study of refugees in Syria that as many as 600,000 or 700,000 Baghdadis were ethnically cleansed from the capital under the nose of the American troops implementing the surge. There is an old Chinese proverb, "Children throw stones at frogs in jest, but the frogs die in earnest."

*****

More food for thought.

"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? "

~ Mahatma Gandhi, "Non-Violence in Peace and War"

Now THAT is prescient!

Heh, now he's not even reading posts before spouting off his rediculousness. How can the progressive movement have been bankrupted and yet the AAEI still keep the same size budget?...

How can the progressive movement have been bankrupted and yet the AAEI still keep the same size budget?...

It's called George Soros~ the puppet master behind the puppet (you)

Debunked drivel~~

Anti-War Billionaire George Soros Funded Iraq Study

foxnews

A study that claimed 650,000 people were killed as a result of the invasion of Iraq was partly funded by the antiwar billionaire George Soros. Soros, 77, provided almost half the nearly $100,000 cost of the research, which appeared in The Lancet, the medical journal. Its claim was 10 times higher than consensus estimates of the number of war dead. The study, published in 2006, was hailed by antiwar campaigners as evidence of the scale of the disaster caused by the invasion, but Downing Street and President George Bush challenged its methodology. New research published by The New England Journal of Medicine estimates that 151,000 people - less than a quarter of The Lancet estimate - have died since the invasion in 2003. “The authors should have disclosed the [Soros] donation and for many people that would have been a disqualifying factor in terms of publishing the research,” said Michael Spagat, economics professor at Royal Holloway, University of London. The Lancet study was commissioned by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) and led by Les Roberts, an associate professor and epidemiologist at Columbia University. He reportedly opposed the war from the outset. His team surveyed 1,849 homes at 47 sites across Iraq, asking people about births, deaths and migration in their households. Professor John Tirman of MIT said this weekend that $46,000 of the approximate $100,000 cost of the study had come from Soros’s Open Society Institute. Roberts said this weekend: “In retrospect, it was probably unwise to have taken money that could have looked like it would result in a political slant. I am adamant this could not have affected the outcome of the research.” The Lancet did not break any rules by failing to disclose Soros’s sponsorship.

Hey Capt,

Don't beielve everything you read on the internet. You might end up sending your life savings to Africa for the free lotto ticket you won.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Your opinion doesn't amount to a hill of beans next to the facts.

I get my facts from people who have been there not from some anti-war web site, like my brother who's been to Iraq and Afganistan and going back again this summer. Like Murtha, who's been there and say's the "Surge is working". Like my customers who have been there and will also be going back. They all say the surge is working. Real people, real facts.

Sorry folks but the free education course by LBH is over, time for supper!

Time to debunk the "debunking".
Pro-war billionaire funds attack on Lancet study
The survey was not funded by Soros. It was funded by MIT. OSI only provided funds for public education. And the authors of the study weren't even aware of the OSI funding, so there was no possible way Soros could have influenced them. Why didn't this appear in Montague's story? Oh right, Montague is being paid by a pro-war billionaire.

Soros really is a boogey-man to the righties, isn't he?

Thanks!