David Corn

Drowning...lungs screaming for air...depleted O2 levels in the brain to the brink of blackout...severe tachycardia as the heart pounds out oxygen poor blood to depleted tissues in the body, the brain, the lungs and back to the heart muscle itself...but then revived just in time to lather, rinse, repeat...

Sounds real peaceful-like...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All that in 34 seconds? No really 34 seconds?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Volunteers?

How about the US military who under goes waterboarding as part of there training?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

C'mon in the water's fine!

Depends if it's a back stroke or breast stroke~

No really 34 seconds?

34 seconds of fear for a terrorist or liberal lefty is too much to ask for when saving thousands of innocent lives.

Not!

Lawmakers vote to hold Bolten and Rove in contempt

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Senate Judiciary Committee voted on Thursday to hold two top aides to President George W. Bush in contempt of Congress for refusing to cooperate in its probe of fired federal prosecutors.

On a largely party-line vote of 11-7, the Democratic-led panel sent contempt citations against White House Chief of Staff Josh Bolten and former Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove to the full Senate for consideration.

As with many of Bush's battles with the Democratic-led Senate, the president may ultimately prevail since his fellow Republicans may be able to block the citations with a procedural hurdle.

Bush has claimed executive privilege to protect aides from complying with congressional subpoenas demanding documents or testimony in an investigation into the firing last year of nine U.S. attorneys. The committee has rejected his privilege claim as unfounded.

Tell Congress to Stop Blocking Impeachment!

Cheney First

In the same manner that the President is sworn in upon taking office, every elected official swears an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution. PDA has long maintained that this oath compels our Representatives to impeach Bush, Cheney and other officials for their numerous and even self-acknowledged high crimes against the Constitution.

Articles of Impeachment against Vice President Cheney (Dennis Kucinich, H. Res. 333) have been introduced in the House, but the Democrat leadership will have nothing to do with it, believing it is not politically expedient. H. Res. 333 has languished in the Judicial Committee since April.

Reintroduced as a privileged resolution by Dennis Kucinich on November 6, H. Res. 799 is suffering the same fate: Although it passed, with support from Republicans (who wished to force the Dems. to take a public stand on impeachment), our leadership sold us out once again, with a second vote that sent Kucinich’s new bill back to the familiar limbo of the Committee. For more on this, click here.

Only Filner, Kaptur, Kucinich, Waters, and Watson upheld their duty; the rest failed us. Now, the next time you hear your representative pledge his support--for any issue-- remember this abandonment of his oath to uphold and defend the Constitution, and consider what his word is worth.

Tell your Congressman that abuse of power must not go unchallenged, that we must not set a precedent by indicating that the Constitution can be ignored. Ask your Representative to sign on as a co-sponsor of H. Res. 799 and request that the Judiciary Committee pass the articles of impeachment. If your representative is already supporting impeachment, thank him or her and ask them to add their name to H. Res. 799. (find the co-sponsors here.)

We encourage you to individualize the text below for greater impact.

No really Hajji, 34 seconds?

It took the same terrorists you empathize for more than 34 seconds to cut Daniel Pearls head off.

The address is still the same, the dogs are still waiting and we can improvise the water-board. Come on and show us what a tuff guy you are.

The address is still the same, the dogs are still waiting and we can improvise the water-board. Come on and show us what a tuff guy you are.

That's your argument -how juvenile.

34 seconds, I would rather spend 34 seconds of painless toture than painfully listen to a liberal lefty sympathize with a murdering terrorist.

come show us what a grown-up tuff guy you are!

The address is still the same, the dogs are still waiting and we can improvise the water-board. Come on and show us what a tuff guy you are.

Why do you get so voilently angry when losing an argument? Doesn't that go against all that you preach?

I promise not to destroy the video!

Show us how not-so-bad it is...PROVE your point!

Liberals are so intolerant!

Some suggest that waterboarding cannot be torture because it is part of U.S. military Survival, Escape, Resistance, and Evasion (SERE) training.

Kaj Larsen

Yeah...I think we can work something out!

I promise not to destroy the video!

You would get your rocks off on watching a video of me you perv~~~

The address is still the same, the dogs are still waiting and we can improvise the water-board. Come on and show us what a tuff guy you are.

You've really got issues with your man-hood~

Democrats Bow to Bush's Demands in House Spending Bill
Billions Trimmed From New Requests

By Jonathan Weisman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, December 13, 2007; A03

House Democratic leaders yesterday agreed to meet President Bush's bottom-line spending limit on a sprawling, half-trillion-dollar domestic spending bill, dropping their demands for as much as $22 billion in additional spending but vowing to shift funds from the president's priorities to theirs.

The final legislation, still under negotiation, will be shorn of funding for the war in Iraq when it reaches the House floor, possibly on Friday. But Democratic leadership aides concede that the Senate will probably add those funds. A proposal to strip the bill of spending provisions for lawmakers' home districts was shelved after a bipartisan revolt, but Democrats say the number and size of those earmarks will be scaled back.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Impeach Bush? You lefties can't even pass a bloated pork barrel budget

I guess when you've (Dems) got lower approval ratings than OJ Simpson it makes for a problem.

Our view on war in Iraq: Surge's success holds chance to seize the moment in Iraq
Instead, Democrats are lost in time, Bush lowers the bar for Baghdad.
Iraq remains a violent place, but the trends are encouraging.

U.S. and Iraqi casualties are down sharply. Fewer of the most lethal Iranian-made explosive devices are being used as roadside bombs. In community after community, Sunni groups who were once in league with al-Qaeda have switched sides and are working with the U.S. forces.

On the Shiite side of Iraq's sectarian chasm, something similar is happening. About 70,000 local, pro-government groups, a bit like neighborhood watch groups, have formed to expose extremist militias, according to Stephen Biddle of the Council on Foreign Relations.

Congressional Democrats, meanwhile, seem lost in a time warp. They could try to impose new benchmarks that acknowledge the military progress. Instead, too many seem unable or unwilling to admit that President Bush's surge of 30,000 more troops has succeeded beyond their initial predictions. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., who in the spring declared the war lost, said last week that "the surge hasn't accomplished its goals." Anti-war Democrats remain fixated on tying war funding to a rapid troop withdrawal. Yet pulling the troops out precipitously threatens to squander the progress of recent months toward salvaging a decent outcome to the Iraq debacle.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dems lost in time? They 're still fighting the 2000 election recount that they lost three times.

Last post from USA Today

House votes to outlaw CIA waterboarding

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Democratic-led House of Representatives voted on Thursday to outlaw harsh interrogation methods, such as simulated drowning, that the CIA has used against suspected terrorists.

On a 222-199 vote, the House approved a measure to require intelligence agents to comply with the Army Field Manual, which meets the Geneva Conventions on the treatment of war prisoners and prohibits torture.

The measure passed amid a congressional probe into the recent disclosure that the CIA destroyed videotapes of al Qaeda suspects undergoing waterboarding, a simulated drowning.

Many countries, U.S. lawmakers and human rights groups have accused the United States of torturing terror suspects since the September 11 attacks.

President George W. Bush says the United States does not torture but the administration will not disclose what interrogation methods are used.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Democratic-led House of Representatives voted on Thursday to outlaw harsh interrogation methods, such as simulated drowning, that the CIA has used against suspected terrorists.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is pointless since the CIA quit using it back in 2003.

Too bad Nancy Pelosi or Jay Rockefellar didn't obect to this horrendous torture back in 2003 when they approved of the method without objection.

We need a special prosecuteor to find out what Pelosi knew and when she knew it.

Sounds like an impeachable offense.

Hey Hajji,

What say you about Pelosi and Rockefeller approving without objecting to the 34 second torture back in 2003?

Impeach them?

I wonder if Waxman will hold hearings on his fellow Dems?

Democrats Blaming Each Other For Failures

By Jonathan Weisman and Paul Kane
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, December 13, 2007; A01

When Democrats took control of Congress in January, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) pledged to jointly push an ambitious agenda to counter 12 years of Republican control.

Now, as Congress struggles to adjourn for Christmas, relations between House Democrats and their colleagues in the Senate have devolved into finger-pointing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think Ried is just offended that Cheney didn't include him with having a big stick and wants to prove he does.

Boehner admits GOP money situation ‘sucks'

[…]

Polls show the public holds congressional Republicans in low esteem. Boehner’s effort to craft a new agenda for Republicans remains under wraps. And in the minority leader’s own words, their fundraising “sucks.”

“Now the money sucks for two reasons,” Boehner said in a Politico interview. “People are mad at the president; they are mad at the party. And then [there is] this whole immigration fight. People just turned off the spigot.”

*****

Poor little crybaby cons, if they would just sound as racist and bats hit crazy as Ron Paul I bet they could raise some scratch.

What a bunch of whiners.

TO RUDY GIULIANI AND ATTORNEY GENERAL NOMINEE MICHAEL MUKASEY

For their tacit support of waterboarding. In an interview, Giuliani was asked for his views on using “enhanced interrogation techniques,” including waterboarding. He responded that in a hypothetical scenario that assumed an attack, “I would tell the people who had to do the interrogation to use every method they can think of.” Prompted again on the specific use of waterboarding, he repeated “every method they could think of.” Mukasey said he found waterboarding to be “repugnant,” but he wouldn’t answer whether it amounted to torture.

Let AFJ be crystal clear on a subject where these men are opaque: Waterboarding is a torture technique that has its history rooted in the Spanish Inquisition. In 1947, the U.S. prosecuted a Japanese military officer for carrying out a form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian during World War II.

Waterboarding inflicts on its victims the terror of imminent death. And as with all torture techniques, it is, therefore, an inherently flawed method for gaining reliable information. In short, it doesn’t work. That blunt truth means all U.S. leaders, present and future, should be clear on the issue.

*****

Armed Forces Journal seems to be an authoritative source with regard to torture. They have to be better than any chicken hawk arm-chair general like the GOP pro-war pro-waterboarding candidates, eh?

Poor little crybaby cons, if they would just sound as racist and bats hit crazy as Ron Paul I bet they could raise some scratch.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Let's see, Ron Paul (libetarian) vs.
Dennis Kooksenich (alien from mars,iIsee UFO's)

I'l take the libertarian.

PELOSI: REPUBLICANS 'LIKE' IRAQ WAR

But what about:

Latest Iraq trip reinforces Baird’s support for surge (WA)

The Columbian ^ | December 13, 2007 | Kathie Durbin
Thursday, December 13, 2007 U.S. Rep. Brian Baird, criticized after breaking ranks with his Democratic colleagues last summer over the war, says his most recent trip to Iraq confirms his view that the Bush administration's military surge is working. He thinks drawing down U.S. troops too rapidly would be "a profound mistake." Baird, a Vancouver Democrat, traveled to Iraq with four other members of Congress from Nov. 30 to Dec. 4. It was his third trip to Iraq in the past seven months. Immediately after his return, he flew home to survey the damage to his district from last week's...

Or:

Murtha Eats Crow On Iraq

Real Clear Politics ^ | 12-04-07 | Jack Kelly - Commentary

December 04, 2007 Murtha Eats Crow On Iraq By Jack Kelly

While most of us were enjoying turkey for Thanksgiving dinner, Rep. Jack Murtha, was eating a little crow. "I think the surge is working," Rep. Murtha said last week after a quick holiday visit to Iraq. The observation isn't remarkable. The signs of progress in Iraq are so obvious that even the New York Times has begun to report them. For, instance, U.S. deaths in Iraq in November (35, 26 in combat) were the lowest since March of 2006. Iraqi civilian deaths were about a third of what they...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So does Pelosi, the water boarding decider, think these guys like the Iraq war?

Boehner admits GOP money situation ‘sucks'

Boehner sucks, he raised pork barrel spending by 20% in his own projects. This is why he isn't getting any money. Time for a change~

Armed Forces Journal seems to be an authoritative source with regard to torture. They have to be better than any chicken hawk arm-chair general like the GOP pro-war pro-waterboarding candidates, eh?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

34 seconds! 34 seconds and the bastard squealed like a progressive lefty with his undies in a bunch!

Hajji, wheres the mojo?

Horne to seek McConnell's seat

Iraq War veteran Andrew Horne announced this morning that he will seek the Democratic nomination to challenge U.S. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell in next year’s election.

Horne, who described McConnell as the problem rather than part of the solution, is the biggest-name Democrat so far to enter the race.

*****

Yeah, ditch Mitch - another GOPher bites the dust.

Ain’t life grand.

N.J. Legislature votes to abolish death penalty

State is first to legislatively outlaw capital punishment

TRENTON, N.J. - New Jersey Thursday became the first U.S. state to legislatively abolish the death penalty since the Supreme Court reinstated capital punishment in 1976.

Lawmakers in the Democrat-controlled state Assembly voted 44-36 in favor of a bill to scrap the death penalty and substitute it with life in prison without the possibility of parole for those found guilty of the most serious crimes.

The vote follows approval by the state Senate on Monday, leaving as the last step the signature of Democratic Gov. Jon Corzine, an opponent of capital punishment.

*****

A small but significant ray of light in a very dark world of institutional murder.

Is Hitler's love child living in the UK?

The British media was awash with speculation that Adolf Hitler's love child may have been born in the UK in 1940, and he could still be living in the country.

Martin Bright, writing in the New Statesman magazine, said that in 2002 he received a phone call from a woman named Val Hann who had read an article he had written about Unity Mitford, a British high-society fascist who was reportedly Hitler's lover.

Unity Mitford, who was born in London in 1914, was reportedly conceived in the town of Swastika, in Ontario, Canada, a coincidence that did much to impress the circle of Nazi leaders she subsequently ingratiated herself with during her stay in 1930s Germany.

Mitford, who was also a cousin of Winston Churchill, lived in Nazi Germany until the outbreak of World War II, returning to Britain after a failed suicide attempt - she shot herself with a pistol allegedly given to her by Hitler - in Munich in 1939, after the UK declared war on Germany. She died in 1948.

Hann "explained that her aunt Betty Norton had run a maternity home to the gentry in Oxfordshire during the war and that Unity Mitford had been one of her clients", Bright wrote in the New Statesman.

After Bright had inquired as to the identity of the father, Hann said, after a small pause, "Well, she always said it was Hitler's".

Hann, who received no money for her story from the New Statesman, said she had been led to believe that the child was a boy, and that he had been subsequently given up for adoption.

*****

"Despite all of this stupid bullsh!t that the Republican National Committee -- or whatever the bullsh!t they call them -- that they were saying that they're all angry about how two of these ads were comparing Bush to Hitler? I mean, out of thousands of submissions, they find two! They're like f@%#ing looking for Hitler in a haystack. You now? I mean, George Bush is not Hitler. He would be if he f@%#ing applied himself.... They could have moved [Judge Roy Moore's monument of] the Ten Commandments to Bush's office -- which he needs them, desperately. Or maybe he needs a new version of the Ten Commandments -- George W. Bush's Ten Commandments! Thou shalt not steal... votes. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's... country. Thou shalt not kill... for oil. Thou shalt not take grammar... in vain!"

~ -- Margaret Cho at the MoveOn.org "Bush in 30 Seconds" awards ceremony, 1/13/04

It remains steadfast even when hanging on to the most ridiculous assertions. It takes only about 10 minutes of lunchtime typing to somehow send it into some sort of turbo-drivel drive.

Offered a chance to prove, to live the lie itself, to be treated in the manner it proscibes for others, it goes into attack mode, diversioin mode....anything to keep from standing up to its assertions...

As the Timmies and the Happies and the rest have fallen aside, this thing seems to delight it showing its twisted pride in knowing it promotes the most vile actions humans can can perform on one another.

To what end? one might ask.

Offer to return the favor, though... oh well.

The problem with a position that favors waterboarding is simple:

If an American is captured by any country then that country could waterboard one of our troops.

The justification doesn’t matter, the information gleamed is not the issue.

Anybody that would venture to say it is okay to waterboard one of our guys is a traitor to our troops and so a traitor to our country. And at a time of war (or so they say) - that is tantamount to treason.

Why does the GOP hate our country and why do they hate our troops?

Capt,

As you've pointed out before...If Pelosi or Rockefeller or any other charged with "oversight" of such heinous actions by our government have failed to register objections through proper channels...and failing that to speak out to the PEOPLE that they're charged with representing, they've not only put our troops in danger of reprisal, they've failed in their pledge to uphold the constitution and should be held accountable in such failure.

I met Jay Rockefeller more than once. When I was at WOWK-TV, I met him first as outgoing Governor, then as Senator of WV. He seemed like a standup guy, at least compared to other West Virginia (and other states, too, I was kinda political in High School) politicians I'd met.

He did, however, already have the sheen of "whatever it takes to stay in the game" about him. Insight from his conversation with our news people showed him to be extremely interested in bringing home the pork. In retrospect, while he was approachable, he did little to give me a good feeling about him.

On the other hand, I always had a better impression of Robert Byrd. While he still spent a lot of time "bringing home the bacon", he never failed to truly engage in a serious one on one conversation with whomever he was talking to.

While I've had many differences of opinion with Senator Byrd over the years. I know personally, that he at least took those of us with meager means into consideration when he was making his backroom deals.

Slim comfort, that... but one thing you can certainly say about Byrd, since 1999, at least....He's been proven right against all the naysaying on his opposition to the continuous surrender to executive power.

I wonder if it might have something to do with that copy of the constitution he's always carrying and referencing...

-T

Bush on the Constitution: 'It's just a goddamned piece of paper'

Analysis: Israel defense exports strong

Israel is climbing the list of the world's top arms exporters, and as such will redouble efforts to make responsible exports, Pinchas Bucharis, director general of the country's defense ministry, announced this week.

"Defense exports in 2007 reached more than $4 billion," Bucharis said via a ministry statement. "Israel is in fourth place (in the world) in defense exports, above Britain," he continued.

******

U.S. Financial Aid To Israel: Figures, Facts, and Impact

Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)

Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,000

Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
$9,047,227,200

Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630

+++++++++

Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Aid to Israel

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000

Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200

Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$23,240

******

Hmmmmmmm

White House Rejects Right-Wing NIE Witch-Hunt: The Intelligence ‘Should Be Supported’

[…]

PERINO: The bottom line for the president on the NIE was that the 16 intelligence communities — community — came together. They assessed all of the intelligence. … And I just don’t know if there’s need to have a second look at it. […]

QUESTION: So is it safe, then, to draw from that that the president is fully confident in the information contained in the NIE?

PERINO: The NIE — the president accepted the results of the NIE.

{…]

Similarly, Cheney recently said, “I don’t have any reason to question the — what the community has produced, with respect to the NIE on Iran.”

In doubting the NIE, these hawks in Congress are ignoring the fact that the intelligence was heavily vetted and well-sourced. The process was overseen by DNI Mike McConnell, who was hand-picked by Bush for the job.

****

No support for the Reich-wingnuttia from the president or Bush.

Ouch.

Admission of error from troll is forthcoming? (don’t hold your breath)

Turds always rise to the surface

And Mike Huckabee is the latest from the GOP sewer

It’s no surprise Mike Huckabee is the latest serious contender for the Republican presidential nomination. Turds always rise to the top of a sewer and the GOP has been a political cesspool for far too long.

As expected, the rabid right wing that dominates the Republican Party considers Huckabee their boy – a hardcore conservative who thinks abortion is murder, homosexuality is a sin and anyone who disagrees with self-righteous GOP rhetoric is a godless heathen who hates America.

Huckabee is the perfect Presidential candidate for the gaggle of dinosaurs called the Grand Old Party.

Unfortunately, I know Republicans all too well: I worked within the GOP for too many years as a Capitol Hill staffer, campaign operative and political consultant.

For too long, I took my money and looked the other way but I can never escape the shame of being a part of the GOP political system.

Politicians on both sides of the aisle are, for the most part, self-serving hacks with no regard for the Constitution they swear to uphold but Republicans are especially venal: Twisting religion, law and morality to fit their perverted view of the world.

They preach family values but Republicans rank among the top skirt chasers on the Hill. Former GOP Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich started an affair while one wife lay in a hospital bed. Then he began an affair with a House committee staffer while married to his second wife. Even grandfatherly Henry Hyde, who presided over the impeachment of President Bill Clinton, screwed around.

Republicans publicly decry homosexuality during the day and cruise the gay bars at night. Sen. Larry Craig of Idaho, the gay-bashing right-winger who tried to pick up an undercover cop in an airport men’s room, is just the latest. The list of closet gay Republicans is almost as long as a compilation of lies by George W. Bush.

All politics is a cesspool filled with creatures from the Black Lagoon but the sewer where Republicans swim and frolic is exceptionally putrid because of the phony, self-righteous front the GOP hypocrites put before the public while enjoying uncontrolled debauchery back in their own toxic landfill.

Many pundits believe George W. Bush will go down as the worst President in American history – unless a Republican like Mike Huckabee becomes President.

Sewers run dark and deep. There’s always another turd fighting to surface.

Early Morning Jokes

Despite his apology, Bill Shaheen is now a former top adviser to Sen. Hillary Clinton. He got in hot water for saying Democrats should give more thought to Sen. Barack Obama's admissions of illegal drug use before they pick a presidential candidate. Hillary later disavowed the remark. If you buy that she didn't sign off on this, you probably also think she never heard the rumor that Bill was a horn dog.

The Democrats (you were expecting something else?) caved to President Bush's demands in the new House spending bill --- but vowed to shift funds from the president's priorities to theirs. Yeah, right. That's like a guy who's just been mugged who waits until his attacker has been gone for 20 minutes and then shouts, "Bring it on, bitch!"

The inspector general of the House of Representatives will investigate recent allegations of sexual misconduct among congressional pages. Former GOP Rep. Mark Foley, who resigned in disgrace because of his questionable involvement with male pages, held a press conference and said, "They're supposed to have sex with pervs like me, not each other! Ew!"

Members of the Senate Judiciary Committee voted Thursday in favor of handing out contempt citations to Karl Rove and Josh Bolten for failing to comply with subpoenas issued in the investigation into the firings of eight U.S. attorneys last year. Will anything come of this? No. So, what this all boils down to is Mr. Slap, meet Mr. Wrist.

Sen. John McCain has been talking in stump speeches about how he once met the legendary Ted Williams. In related news, a hypothetical match-up by Zogby has the long dead, cryogenically frozen Boston slugger slightly ahead of McCain in Iowa and only 2 points behind in New Hampshire.

Mitch McConnell, whose support for the Iraq War has made him vulnerable to a challenge in 2008, officially has a challenger: Andrew Horne, a retired Marine lieutenant colonel who served in Iraq. An aide to the GOP Senate leader expected McConnell to belittle his new opponent by dismissively pursing his lips but then remembered that his prissy boss doesn't have any lips.

Carolyn Washburn, editor of The Des Moines Register and the moderator of the last Republican debate, asked the candidates to raise their hands if they thought global warming was a serious threat caused by human behavior. "I'm not doing hand shows today," snipped Fred Thompson. Washburn then said, "I bet I can make you take Indian talk." A skeptical Thompson inquired, "How?" Washburn gloated, "Got you!" A chagrined Thompson groused, "I can't believe I fell for that!"

And finally: Francis Ford Coppola's long-awaited new film is getting horrible reviews. It looks like "Youth Without Youth" will be a Movie Without Moviegoers.

The problem with a position that favors waterboarding is simple:

Offered a chance to prove, to live the lie itself, to be treated in the manner it proscibes for others, it goes into attack mode, diversioin mode....anything to keep from standing up to its assertions...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The CIA used waterboarding three times on high level terrorists which resulted in accurate info to stop future attacks and it is no longer used as a method.

Now that's the facts so scratch your happy spot and get glad. Waterboarding works, and just because we don't use it doesn't mean the enemy won't ask Daniel Pearl. Oh, wait he's dead!

Ugh!

LBH, do you also believe in the tooth fairy? Or perhaps that Iran is seeking nuc-u-lar weapons? Or perhaps that Saddam had WMDs? Or maybe that invading Iraq and deposing Saddam would establish democracy in the middle east? You need to listen to some other fairy tales.

Hajji,
How long ago did you leave Huntington? I'm stuck in a little town 30 miles southwest of Morgantown. The difference between Byrd and Jay is that
Byrd doesn't have enough time left to ponder the problems people discuss with him and has enough experience and clarity of his views that he doesn't need it to give answers. Jay has too much time and still worries about politics.

The CIA may use waterboarding on Al-Qaeda, but the simple truth is torture does not work

It just doesn't work period.

December 12, 2007

The Honorable John D. Rockefeller IV, Chairman
The United States Senate
Select Committee on Intelligence
Washington, DC 20510

The Honorable Silvestre Reyes, Chairman
The United States House of Representatives
Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence
Washington, DC 20515

Dear Chairman Reyes and Chairman Rockefeller:

As retired military leaders of the U.S. Armed Forces, we write to express our strong support for Section 327 of the Conference Report on the Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008, H.R. 2082. Section 327 would require intelligence agents of the U.S. government to adhere to the standards of prisoner treatment and interrogation contained in the U.S. Army Field Manual on Human Collector Operations (the Army Field Manual).

We believe it is vital to the safety of our men and women in uniform that the United States not sanction the use of interrogation methods it would find unacceptable if inflicted by the enemy against captured Americans. That principle, embedded in the Army Field Manual, has guided generations of American military personnel in combat.

The current situation, in which the military operates under one set of interrogation rules that are public and the CIA operates under a separate, secret set of rules, is unwise and impractical. In order to ensure adherence across the government to the requirements of the Geneva Conventions and to maintain the integrity of the humane treatment standards on which our own troops rely, we believe that all U.S. personnel - military and civilian - should be held to a single standard of humane treatment reflected in the Army Field Manual.

The Field Manual is the product of decades of practical experience and was updated last year to reflect lessons learned from the current conflict. Interrogation methods authorized by the Field Manual have proven effective in eliciting vital intelligence from dangerous enemy prisoners. Some have argued that the Field Manual rules are too simplistic for civilian interrogators. We reject that argument. Interrogation methods authorized in the Field Manual are sophisticated and flexible. And the principles reflected in the Field Manual are values that no U.S. agency should violate.

General David Petraeus underscored this point in an open letter to the troops in May in which he cautioned against the use of interrogation techniques not authorized by the Field Manual:

What sets us apart from our enemies in this fight. . . . is how we behave. In everything we do, we must observe the standards and values that dictate that we treat noncombatants and detainees with dignity and respect.... Some may argue that we would be more effective if we sanctioned torture or other expedient methods to obtain information from the enemy. They would be wrong. Beyond the basic fact that such actions are illegal, history shows that they also are frequently neither useful nor necessary. Certainly, extreme physical action can make someone "talk;" however, what the individual says may be of questionable value. In fact, our experience in applying the interrogation standards laid out in the Army Field Manual (2-22.3) on Human Intelligence Collector Operations that was published last year shows that the techniques in the manual work effectively and humanely in eliciting information from detainees.

Employing interrogation methods that violate the Field Manual is not only unnecessary, but poses enormous risks. These methods generate information of dubious value, reliance upon which can lead to disastrous consequences. Moreover, revelation of the use of such techniques does immense damage to the reputation and moral authority of the United States essential to our efforts to combat terrorism.

This is a defining issue for America. We urge you to support the adoption of Section 327 of the Conference Report and thereby send a clear message - to U.S. personnel and to the world - that the United States will not engage in or condone the abuse of prisoners and will honor its commitments to uphold the Geneva Conventions.

Sincerely,

General Joseph Hoar, USMC (Ret.)
General Paul J. Kern, USA (Ret.)
General Charles Krulak, USMC (Ret.)
General David M. Maddox, USA (Ret.)
General Merrill A. McPeak, USAF (Ret.)
Admiral Stansfield Turner, USN (Ret.)
Vice Admiral Lee F. Gunn, USN (Ret.)
Lieutenant General Claudia J. Kennedy, USA (Ret.)
Lieutenant General Donald L. Kerrick, USA (Ret.)
Vice Admiral Albert H. Konetzni Jr., USN (Ret.)
Lieutenant General Charles Otstott, USA (Ret.)
Lieutenant General Harry E. Soyster, USA (Ret.)
Major General Paul Eaton, USA (Ret.)
Major General Eugene Fox, USA (Ret.)
Major General John L. Fugh, USA (Ret.)
Rear Admiral Don Guter, USN (Ret.)
Major General Fred E. Haynes, USMC (Ret.)
Rear Admiral John D. Hutson, USN (Ret.)
Major General Melvyn Montano, ANG (Ret.)
Major General Gerald T. Sajer, USA (Ret.)
Major General Antonio 'Tony' M. Taguba, USA (Ret.)
Brigadier General David M. Brahms, USMC (Ret.)
Brigadier General James P. Cullen, USA (Ret.)
Brigadier General Evelyn P. Foote, USA (Ret.)
Brigadier General David R. Irvine, USA (Ret.)
Brigadier General John H. Johns, USA (Ret.)
Brigadier General Richard O'Meara, USA (Ret.)
Brigadier General Murray G. Sagsveen, USA (Ret.)
Brigadier General Anthony Verrengia, USAF (Ret.)
Brigadier General Stephen N. Xenakis, USA (Ret.)

Hey Pogo...and welcome to the Cornblog.

I left West Virginia in the mid-80's to persue my Rock-n-Roll Fantasies in South Florida, then in New England where they damn sure came true! While I lived in Huntington for a few years and spent quite a bit of time covering WVU, I never really considered myself a Mountaineer.

I grew up (some would disagree) a few miles downriver in Ashland, KY. I took some broadcasting classes at Marshall, but true to family tradition, my degree and the blood in my veins is UK blue.

How's things in Mary Lou Retton land?

-T